Thanks Tom. That's still a little long but acceptable.

And thanks isfman for posting that great review!

I read here that Steve Smallcombe is getting an H77 soon. Hopefully he will get a review up soon.

Brent

5 or 10 secs is long, naah

I haven't tried a projector that snaps into an HDTV vs 480p resolution. We should be glad it does find the sync.

That little 4805 won't find the sync out and needs a fix.

My AE300 syncs between 480i/p and 1080i almost instantaneously. That's on the component input.

4 or 5 sec's is not an issue for me. That would bother you? Not syncing that would be an issue. :)

Easy Tom. Read my post again. I said "a little long but acceptable"

I'd absolutely love to have an H77. The throw ratio, lens shift, and power zoom are PERFECT for my room and desired variable sized 4 way masked screen set up. Just not sure I can swing the $$$

Brent

isfman, thanks for the link to the review. I noticed the H77 pictured in the review is silver. Is there anyway to get a silver one instead of white or is it just the luck of the draw? I like the silver better and it matches my HT room :rolleyes:

Regards,
Anthony :cool:

Mine is silver also but there's nothing on the box to distinguish I think. Will take a look for an S code.

Sorry if this has been covered already , is this projector brighter via component instead of DVI as stated in the projectorcentral review? I'd be using this PJ solely via DVI and may have some ambient light for sporting events so this is somewhat important to me... Thanks for any help on this.

John

from page 2 of this thread:
Tom, do you notice a brightness difference between component and DVI input?

Dan

I have the brightness tuned to the same look for DVI and progressive components and didn't see a difference. Using gamma 2 or 3 puts the brightness at the level I need.


__________________
Tom/guitarman

I've read this thread so many times I think I have it memorized :p

-Anthony :cool:

Originally posted by guitarman
Very good review, interesting outfit, I looked over their 7205 review and it's typical they found a way to leave out the generated contrast ratio's and black level. Guess if you can find something good to say, say nothing. :)

Whoops on the they, sri

I see laaudiofile and you're a Los Angeles poster. Are you hooked up with the company? You're Kevin right?
If so welcome

Thanks Tom. Yes it is me.

Hello,

Someone can made a test for me? Can you display with a PC or other source those images on your H77?

--> http://perso.wanadoo.fr/nicolas.phil/screenH77/debug/loupcap1.jpg
--> http://perso.wanadoo.fr/nicolas.phil/screenH77/debug/loupcap2.jpg
--> http://perso.wanadoo.fr/nicolas.phil/screenH77/debug/loupcap3.jpg

Can you tel me if your result are good or not. On my H77 those image show me a critical color bug. It looks like this screenshot : http://perso.wanadoo.fr/nicolas.phil/screenH77/debug/loupdx2.jpg (of course my d-camera was not perfectly setting but we can easily see some "color halo" which does not exist on the original image).
Thx

Originally posted by Cilent1
from page 2 of this thread:




I've read this thread so many times I think I have it memorized :p

-Anthony :cool:

Thanks for the quotes. Even though both inputs can be adjusted to be equal brightness, i wonder if the component input has the ability to have a greater 'total brightness'. Anyone have any proof of this?

John

I have an H77 and a Denon 1910 DVD player. I am using the DVI input on the h77. Should I set the DVD player to output 720P or 480P? Also, I have a first generation RCA direct tv HDTV set top box. The only output for HDTV video on the back is the VGA port that looks like the monitor input on my computer (rs232?) The projector has the same port, but in the review posted above, it indicates it is for controlling the projector. How should I hook up my set top box?

Thanks,

Hi Kevin, keep the reviews coming. I bookmarked your site. Main thing I like about the review is it's clean layout, easy to follow, right to the point.

HDK, 720p for your denon and take a look at native aspect it will be a 1.1 pixel match. (native has zero overscan)

Originally posted by Expletive
Thanks for the quotes. Even though both inputs can be adjusted to be equal brightness and can crush out the whites, whiy i wonder if the component input has the ability to have a greater 'total brightness'. Anyone have any proof of this?

John
Either signal can be made bright and crush out whites, white peak can take you even higher. :) I've been viewing mostly in econo mode. Brightness mode will make things nice and bright if you want. The fan is still very quiet in high brightness.

You get some great screen options with the H77's level of brightness. You can go 1.0,1.1, 1.3, 2.8, 6.0,

All these and I don't think the blacks will be effected. Blacks here have tons of room to breath. You want real bright, start stepping up the screen gains and try high brightness mode. :)

Nico, those links din't work from me.

Originally posted by guitarman
Nico, those links din't work from me.

Tom, I have change my links. Now it must work :)

Originally posted by hdk
Also, I have a first generation RCA direct tv HDTV set top box. The only output for HDTV video on the back is the VGA port that looks like the monitor input on my computer (rs232?) The projector has the same port, but in the review posted above, it indicates it is for controlling the projector. How should I hook up my set top box?

Thanks,

I believe that the output of your HDTV tuner is RGB (probably with HV as well). The H77 has 5 separate BNC female connectors that accept an RGBHV signal. You need to get a cable with the appropriate VGA type plug on one end and the 5 separate BNC plugs on the other. You can get this type of cable at Fry's (if there is one near you) or from an AV supply store that sells projectors or over the internet. Beware, these cables can go from $30 to $100+ and as far as I can tell, there is no relationship between price and quality.

Enjoy,
Ira

THanks Tom and iblumberg. Iblumberg, I believe you are right, the output is RGB. Thanks again. By the way, did you get your sound sync problem fixed with the 1910 and H77?

HDK

Originally posted by DTSman-fr
Tom, I have change my links. Now it must work :)

Ok the links worked. So you get the same contouring with HTPC?

I just talked to the Engineer here in California. He said Justin is working on the PAL contouring issue and that he's scheduled to go back to Taiwan next week. The tech here works solely on NTSC products. He's back to Taiwan next week also.

For the remote codes update guys, not that I need it. But he said he would work on setting up discrete download codes for your programmable Pronto's & MX500.
He said he would like to do this request, you'll get direct codes for each aspect ratio. This won't happen tomorrow but he made a note to get it done.

As far as better Letterbox support for NA-movies or use of a Panamorph lens that firmware is already available in California, it will be C11, we have C08 right now.

Originally posted by guitarman
Either signal can be made bright and crush out whites, white peak can take you even higher. :) I've been viewing mostly in econo mode. Brightness mode will make things nice and bright if you want. The fan is still very quiet in high brightness.

You get some great screen options with the H77's level of brightness. You can go 1.0,1.1, 1.3, 2.8, 6.0,

All these and I don't think the blacks will be effected. Blacks here have tons of room to breath. You want real bright, start stepping up the screen gains and try high brightness mode. :)

Thanks for the reply. I have a Stewart studiotek and am wondering how much (subjectively) ambient light i can have with good results from the H77.

For movies i'll have total darkness but for more social situations (sporting events, video games) i'd like ot know how much light i'll be able to use.

John

The 1.3 gain of the Stewart should work well. On my 1.0 mat white I can view football all day. When the suns out my theater area (family room) has daylight in it. Plenty bright and in econo mode. You should be good to go with your combo.

Originally posted by Expletive
I have a Stewart studiotek and am wondering how much (subjectively) ambient light i can have with good results from the H77. For movies i'll have total darkness but for more social situations (sporting events, video games) i'd like ot know how much light i'll be able to use.
John: From the demo I saw at CEDIA with the Studiotek and the firehawk, and based on my experience with my H77 on a firehawk, I'd say you could have very little ambient with that screen. With my firehawk, I can have very little and it has to be absolutely not shining on the screen. A bright subject (i.e. HD football) would help, but I don't think it will look very impressive with much ambient, especially with a studiotek. I expect it's going to depend on how much ambient and in what way it is arranged relative to the screen, etc. HTH, Scott

At night I have a 6500k light defused on in the room and the image will have plenty of contrast.

The newer projectors with the 12degree mirrors are all better for this. I had trouble with my Sharp Z9000, Seleco HT200, NEC LT150z, but no trouble with the HT1000, Sharp Z90, H30, H77 - the list goes on. lol

That doesn't sound promising if Justin is going back to taiwan, not for getting my hands on one by the end of this month it doesn't anyway! Blimey, taking some sorting out this little problem isn't it.... Still as long as it gets sorted that's the main thing...

Cheers
Andy

Originally posted by scotthorton
John: From the demo I saw at CEDIA with the Studiotek and the firehawk, and based on my experience with my H77 on a firehawk, I'd say you could have very little ambient with that screen. With my firehawk, I can have very little and it has to be absolutely not shining on the screen. A bright subject (i.e. HD football) would help, but I don't think it will look very impressive with much ambient, especially with a studiotek. I expect it's going to depend on how much ambient and in what way it is arranged relative to the screen, etc. HTH, Scott

Bad news... :(

Originally posted by scotthorton
John: From the demo I saw at CEDIA with the Studiotek and the firehawk, and based on my experience with my H77 on a firehawk, I'd say you could have very little ambient with that screen. With my firehawk, I can have very little and it has to be absolutely not shining on the screen. A bright subject (i.e. HD football) would help, but I don't think it will look very impressive with much ambient, especially with a studiotek. I expect it's going to depend on how much ambient and in what way it is arranged relative to the screen, etc. HTH, Scott

Bad news... :(

Originally posted by guitarman
The 1.3 gain of the Stewart should work well. On my 1.0 mat white I can view football all day. When the suns out my theater area (family room) has daylight in it. Plenty bright and in econo mode. You should be good to go with your combo.

Good news!

Now what? :confused:

John

I don't want to see you buy another screen the Sutdio Tech is a good one and expensive. Get the projector. Mine is a Mat White reflects light and I got white walls and ceiling. Contrast is still ok with the defused light or even the daylight behind the room.

In the day even though I have blackout curtains, light still gets in the room. I can see all my stuff and don't trip over things etc like at night :) but I can still view HDTV football games just fine.

You have a better shot at it with the H77 over the other HC/models.

FWIW, I should have quantified that I haven't seen any PJ that will do any better than the H77, BUT if you want to have higher ambient and are less concerned about black levels the Infocus 7205 was the recommendation I got over and over. The only other PJ's in this category (of the H77) IMHO is the Sharp 12K and the Marantz S3. They all have pros and cons. I got the H77, cost was not an issue. I was more interested in PQ than ambient light, and I went with the firehawk (also 1.3 gain IIRC) due to ambient issues, although one of these days I'm gonna see a 7205 and see if it's *personally* more appealing to me.

I agree with Tom that I'd not go get a different screen until I tried the ST. It's not like you can pick a different PJ to solve that issue. The ST will have less ambient rejection with whatever PJ you pick (as compared to firehawk). Only you can decide if ihe ambient washes it too much. If it does, I've seen the all the Stewart screens sell very well on videogon.com and if you use one of the dealers here (e.g. www.hometheaterdoc.com or the AVS guys here it proably wouldn't cost too much difference to replace the sold one with a firehawk. It's pretty easy to find the screens at 15-17%+ below list. You might even find someone willing to swap fabrics and each of you keep your frames who knows.

Cheers,
Scott

This is my first post on a internet forum, but I felt obligated to let you all know how helpful this forum has been in helping me get a home theater up and running. I've had my H77 for 2 weeks now and have about 60 hours on in, and I love it!

I have it in a totally light controlled room projecting onto a 92" (diag) StudioTec 130. The colors and detail are amazing! The picture is much better than 90% of the area's cinemas, plus all the advantages of being home. Being a natural skeptic, I was very worried about headaches / rainbows / artifacts / etc / etc / etc. I'm thrilled that neither myself, my wife or teenage sons have experienced any of those.

It was rather a leap of faith, but one I'd highly recommend!

Thanks again,
Rob

Orion, could you address what a HDTV image looks like on your set up while viewing sports with some ambient light in the room. (Enough light in the room to watch football with friends). The more opinions the better. Thanks.

Hey Orion, that's great to hear! I've got the same screen as you in my current HT setup with a DWIN HD500 CRT. I'm moving to a new house and I'll be bringing the Stewart with me, and I'm hoping to pick up a new digital projector. I will have excellent light control and I'm looking forward to building a new HT.

Originally posted by guitarman
Ok the links worked. So you get the same contouring with HTPC?

I just talked to the Engineer here in California. He said Justin is working on the PAL contouring issue and that he's scheduled to go back to Taiwan next week. The tech here works solely on NTSC products. He's back to Taiwan next week also.

For the remote codes update guys, not that I need it. But he said he would work on setting up discrete download codes for your programmable Pronto's & MX500.
He said he would like to do this request, you'll get direct codes for each aspect ratio. This won't happen tomorrow but he made a note to get it done.

As far as better Letterbox support for NA-movies or use of a Panamorph lens that firmware is already available in California, it will be C11, we have C08 right now.


Ok this is the new story i get for europe. They have found the problem, next week they will do some final testing (thats why justin is going to taiwan?). The fix will be both software and hardware, they still quoted 3 weeks to me but when i pressed them about their remarks on 4 - 6 weeks production lead times they sort of agreed and changed their minds to 3 to 5 weeks from now. All shipped units will have to come in for a fix. My guess is it will be middle on november before we see these new units in europe...

Sorry to bring this bad news, i hope they fix one of the units we have (on the forum) so we can test if the problem is really solved and we know we are not waiting for nothing till mid november.

Daniel.

Thanks for the news. So there's a nasty chip on one of the boards causing the contouring. This is good news for the first few Mits and H77 owners over there. Once sorted out the next step is to beef up production. Bet they have a ton of machines ready for the fix so there s/b a barrage coming pretty soon.

Originally posted by guitarman
Thanks for the news. So there's a nasty chip on one of the boards causing the contouring. This is good news for the first few Mits and H77 owners over there. Once sorted out the next step is to beef up production. Bet they have a ton of machines ready for the fix so there s/b a barrage coming pretty soon.

Should North America users wait for the 'fixed' units or would it not affect NTSC at all?

John

North American units are fine, pretty sure Asia-Pacific units are fine as well. Just read all the positive comments from North American users on this thread.

I don't understand why the units in Europe and US can be different in Hardware? It just makes the logistics so complicated. I thought all H77 is supposed to handle both NTSC and PAL signals???

Can someone verify that there are different versions of H77 in terms of hardware??

I think I will bring down a test disc to the H77 dealer in Singapore and test it out to see if the units here have banding problem.

From one of the old threads, this pic from LOTR1 (new line cinema intro) using a HC2000 was posted.

http://www.arcor.de/palb/alben/42/3970642/1280_6465313433303761.jpg

Looks really bad. I just watched it on my Pixelplus crt and there is NO problem whatsoever. I am going to test it on a H77 in Singapore. Any other scenes from LOTR that I should look out for??

Can someone with a problematic H77 show me some scenes from LOTR so I know what to look out for?

thanks

It's just that the PAL signal has to be handles a different way electronically. Looks like they now the board to fix and right most likely all the newer machines will be the same. Work for NTSC or PAL. I would call the prob banding, contouring is a better description. Look for waves of outlines around objects. Like the picture above around the light. Or the U571 shot with the hatch light, you'll see discolored waves surrounding the light.

Alantk, does bring up a good point. According to the specs even the "NTSC H77" models should handle PAL programming. Yet we've been going on about how this is a problem only for European/Asian H77 owners. And how people in North America are not subsceptible to the "PAL interlaced" signal issue....what if a N. American owner wants to play a PAL dvd? As there are a lot of great R2 (UK/Japan) and R3 dvds out there that we might like to watch.

Is there really a different version of the H77 for the European/Asia market? In addition to the voltage setting....

I too would love to have this clarifeied! :)

Figure all future machines will cover both signals. If one of the new owners here in the US would want the Pal fix I'd guess they could ask for it.

Cowboys & Giants on HDTV now, looking good! I see no panning problems with football either. Daylight's entering the room also and HDTV is still HC & bright.

I just received a new H77 recently and do not have my HT set up yet. This photo was taken with the projector sitting on a sawhorse projecting onto a wall painted with Benjamin Moore Sweatshirt gray paint. (Firehawk on order) The lights were on but dimmed quite a bit.

Originally posted by guitarman
Figure all future machines will cover both signals. If one of the new owners here in the US would want the Pal fix I'd guess they could ask for it.

Cowboys & Giants on HDTV now, looking good! I see no panning problems with football either. Daylight's entering the room also and HDTV is still HC & bright.

Come to think of it...even if Cdn/American users of the H77 wanted to play PAL dvds we would most likely be using a progressive scan dvd player any how. So I guess the "PAL interlaced" issue is a non-issue for North Americans. :)

Originally posted by Hugh_DaMann
I just received a new H77 recently and do not have my HT set up yet. This photo was taken with the projector sitting on a sawhorse projecting onto a wall painted with Benjamin Moore Sweatshirt gray paint. (Firehawk on order) The lights were on but dimmed quite a bit.

Looks like HDTV :) This thing is a powerhouse for HDTV football, try the bright mode for day watching football, turn it into a tube TV. :)

I got the niners/Arizona game going on OTA right now. Man all those Reds,white and Greens look awesome.

Originally posted by Dark7pt1
Come to think of it...even if Cdn/American users of the H77 wanted to play PAL dvds we would most likely be using a progressive scan dvd player any how. So I guess the "PAL interlaced" issue is a non-issue for North Americans. :)
actually it's not only a pal interlaced issue. pal interlaced ad's one more flaw, the smearing, but on al inputs, pal or ntsc we get colors in the greyscale (it's not posible to tweak away)

Yes I think it's time people start thinking outside the 'PAL vs NTSC' issue. The H77 (and its Mits clones) can handle PAL and NTSC signals, regardless of which region you purchased it in. The problem is with European H77 and Mits units suffering from a banding/contouring problem regardless of what kind of source you feed it...NTSC, PAL, upscaled 720p. Now from what I have read the problem is being worked on by some engineers in Taiwan and in a few weeks fixed units should be hiting European shores (hopefully).

North American units DO NOT have this problem. I'm pretty sure if the people who purchased North American H77s watched some PAL material, they will not suddenly see some major contouring problems.

AFAIK Asian units also DO NOT suffer from these problems. If people are experiencing problems with Asian units please report them.

Once again this is a European specific problem, probably due to poor quality control on behalf of Optoma and Mits but at least they are working on a solution.

(Hope this clears things up, if anything thing I've said is incorrect, please feel free to correct me!)

die_lol,

Let me ask you a question. If it is true like you said that the American units can play PAL with no problem, why in the world did optoma sent the a defective unit to the european world?????

It just doesn't make sense. If the US units are working fine with PAL, Optoma will SELL the same units to Europe. Why they want to mess up their inventories with 2 seperate versions???

As to why the reports from the States and Europe are so different, I have totally NO idea.

Anyway my dealer in Singapore told me that the H77 is no longer on demo... wonder why. So I have to wait till end of the month when my unit is delivered b4 I can post any feedback.

You have to figure they all have the same circuitry. It just wasn't ready for the European PAL signal. I assume now all the machines coming out of Taiwan will cover both NTSC and PAL. They wouldn't have different versions.

Just a small note, there IS some difference in compatibility between the USA and European models... e.g. the european model must accept scart RGB and be compatible with 1080i 50hz.

But of course, if these things would be already be programmed in the US unit, then there was no need for a seperate european one.

Let's just wait for the new firmware for the PAL region of the world, it will come out soon ! An upgrade with RS232 for the people that already have the ThemeScene H77 will help us of getting the newest version also. :)

BTW, the firmware of my H77 is V.C11 (02 sep 2004).

C11 adds best letterbox support (letterbox aspect). Your non-anamorphic dvd's will display perfectly, plus it's set for using a 2.35 setup/panamorph.

Ah, great news ;)
So, the US firmware is also C11 ? (dated from 2 september ?)

Greetings,

Nicolas

Yes Wing told me the other day, C11 has the added letterbox support. The PAL fix will be something else.

another reason why it's not the same pj in europe is maybe because we have 220v/50hz instead of 110v/60hz?

I thought Optoma has universal transformer that can accept anything from 110-240V 50/60hz.
This is just a request but could somebody with a non-European H77 try to play back some PAL material on their machine and see if there are any problems?

If this helps, i tried a DVD 576i (component) and the colors were not correct, adjusting didn't help... When a DVD was played in 480i (component) it looked great.

I don't know however if the "ring" artefacts appeared in NTSC material.
BUT, because D-Theater movies looked STUNNING i think that it's not present in NTSC, and just a PAL issue.

Yep, the H77 is multi-voltage, what means that it "adapts" to the local voltage settings. From what i know, the Optoma's and ThemeScenes are identical hardware-wise.

I'm also interested in what a PAL feed gives on an Optoma H77. Then we can perhaps just use the US firmware on our non-US units ;)

Sri I don't hv anything to send a PAL signal to the H77. One thing all new users should first setup Colorspace in the System menu, to (auto). That would help some color problems. My factory default was YUU and I wold get a pink screen. I think YUU is for Australia and other area's for signal compatibility. Too bad it doesn't fix the PAL.

Australia's PAL system is PAL B/G, the same as Western Europe and I think Scandinavia.

to clear some things up:

the LOTR shot (new line logo) with the contouring artefacts was made by me, using a Mits HC2000, european model, June 14th Firmware C02 and a Pio 747 component progressive 480P NTSC, DVD was region 1.

the problem appeared on my HC2000 with all inputs, DVI/component/svideo and on all discs PAL/NTSC. it appeared even with upscaled (to 720p) material.
with real HD material it was better (i did not see it for real, was tested at my dealer).

Just got my H77 setup last night in time to watch the Enterprise seasion premier (lame!). Anyway, my H77 is set to 16x9, my HD Tivo is set to 16x9, and the show appears to also be 16x9 (i.e. "widescreen") - but rather then see the image in its full size, it looks like its been letterboxed twice. Something like this:


---------------------------------
| |
| --------------------- |
| | | |
| | <image> | |
| | | |
| --------------------- |
| |
---------------------------------


Any ideas how to make this image fill the whole screen?

Thanks!
Sachi

What firmware do you have? The new version is C11 which has better letterbox support for NA's with the Letterbox aspect.

Hows your DVD playing? how about HDTV 720p? looking good?

If it is still the same as when I was watching it, Enterprise is not broadcast in HD or any similar wide screen format. Instead, it is just matted, i.e., they put black bars top and bottom. For a show like this, and for those annoying DVDs that are also matted rather than anamorphic, just select the "LetterBox" format in the H77 format menu.

It took me about a week to figure this out, but now it works well for me.

Ira

Originally posted by sachi
Just got my H77 setup last night in time to watch the Enterprise seasion premier (lame!). Anyway, my H77 is set to 16x9, my HD Tivo is set to 16x9, and the show appears to also be 16x9 (i.e. "widescreen") - but rather then see the image in its full size, it looks like its been letterboxed twice. Something like this:


---------------------------------
| |
| --------------------- |
| | | |
| | <image> | |
| | | |
| --------------------- |
| |
---------------------------------


Any ideas how to make this image fill the whole screen?

Thanks!
Sachi

You must hv the C11 firmware, C08 doesn't display NA/matted 16.9 fully expanded with the letterbox aspect. C11 is the upgrade.

Thanks for the speedy reply - I have C08... I searched Optoma's website, but didn't see where to d/l C11 - do you know where I can get it? Sorry if this has already been posted...

G'man, per your other questions - the HD channels and some DVDs are full screen. Matrix DVD is full width, but not full height - I assume this is because of its 1.85:1 aspect ratio, but I'd rather it were 16:9. Some SD channels have left/right panels to bring the image to 4:3, others are as I described for which C11 may fix - fortunately, most of the network shows I care about fall into this category.

Off topic, but I'm having major reception problems with DirectTV's channel SF44 - for about 4 days now... This is not an Optoma issue as the last thing I watched on my RPTV before swapping in the PJ was this channel and it sucked then too. Anybody know if the satellite or transmission tower are having a problem?

Kent (a.k.a. Sachi's dad)

Originally posted by guitarman
You must hv the C11 firmware, C08 doesn't display NA/matted 16.9 fully expanded with the letterbox aspect. C11 is the upgrade.

I'll check tonight. It seems strange that I would have newer firmware as I got my H77 about a month ago. Nonetheless, I have used LetterBox several times to expand matted 16x9 material to fill the screen.

Ira

Kent, the Matrix is a 2.35 enhanced anamorphic, it should look natural with black bars top & bottom using the H77's 16.9 aspect. 1.85 movies will have no bars.

Movies like Armageddon, Rounders, Clear & present danger which I watched last night are non-anamorphic. These will display cropped or squashed if you don't have a DVD player that handles NA's. I still hv C08 but my Bravo will display these dvd's ok. You can get the firmware at the factory in Milpitas. You could call in to arrange for an RMA, maybe they cover your ship cost I don't know. I do know they'll cover the return. Another way is to have your dealer install it. He'd have to be able to be computer savvy and have the knowledge to install, the dealer would get the firmware from headquarters.

I'll bet allot of dealers wouldn't want to be bothered by the process and will just tell you to send it to the factory.

I tried to convince the Optoma Techs to let individual users do it with their own computers, but they thought it would be too tricky. Too many variables for error. Poor computers, computer operator error, etc :)

Here's a tricky one.

I have a high def cbale box with ONLY component video out.
I ONLY have an HDMI cable running from my gear to my projector location, and cant run any additional ones.
I am considering an H77...

Here's my solution:

Component to DVI cable (something like this: http://salestores1.com/op42dvitocor.html)
DVI to HDMI converter
HDMI cable to H77
HDMI to DVI converter at the H77...

Will this work?

This will only be temporary until my cable co provides a cable box with digital output...

John

Originally posted by guitarman I tried to convince the Optoma Techs to let individual users do it with their own computers, but they thought it would be too tricky. Too many variables for error. Poor computers, computer operator error, etc :) [/B] I bet they would find that if they prefaced it with the proper warnings non-savvy folks would shy away, and those of us who are able could upgrade. A firmware update should be pretty straight forward for anyone who is PC literate. And that would enable an update without the expense and danger of shipping back and forth 3000 miles. I'd say many of us are quite a bit more PC savvy than many dealers. My particular dealer is competent, but he's not local either. It's those non-savvy dealers who are gonna tell you to send it off I suppose. What the hxxx is the RS232 in the box for anyway? There are no published RS232 controls and they won't let us do the firmware, why waste the wire?

The H77 actually has two component inputs. Straight component Red,Green,Blue and DVI, DVI will trans code a component signal. That cable you posted will work automatic.

Originally posted by guitarman
The H77 actually has two component inputs. Straight component Red,Green,Blue and DVI, DVI will trans code a component signal. That cable you posted will work automatic.

Even converting to HDMI in the middle this will work? I only can use an HDMI cable to get to the PJ... Sorry!

John

Re firmware one thing to consider is I'm pretty sure they have to reset the machines before the add a firmware. That hoses the factory calibrations which they would re-do after the firmware install. It was this way with my Optoma H30.

Probably best to have the factory do it, they have the calibration equipment and are familiar with the machine.

Originally posted by Expletive
Even converting to HDMI in the middle this will work? I only can use an HDMI cable to get to the PJ... Sorry!

John

Hmmm, I know it handles HDCP on DVI, not sure about HDMI, you could look at the manual at the Optoma site.

G'man, I have no issue taking the box to Optoma as I work about 5 miles from their HQ in Milpitas. Are there release notes to describe all the other fixes that went into C09, C10, & C11? Also, do you have any awareness if they might be working on C12?

BTW, given that the machine is fairly recent, is it alarming that they have had to release so many patches? In general, how is Optoma's quality? Do they have controled processes in place?

Thanks!
Kent

Which "value priced" DVD player should I use with the Optoma? Should I get one that upconverts to 720p? How does the copyright license associated with DVI affect my decision? I would like to keep it under $300. Thanks.

re firmware. Yes if it wipes the settings a recalibrate would be nice. Maybe a fringe benefit would be to get a fresh factory calibration after some hours on your bulb.

But for my education, couldn't one record all the original settings in the service menu then re-enter them when done with the flash? The worst part (mailing risk aside) is that you'd have to pack and ship the PJ, which would be incredibly expensive to overnight and I'd presume they aren't gonna overnight it back. For an east coast owner that woudl mean 10+ days bouncing around on a truck + time to reflash. Even if they dropped what they were doing and did the few minutes of work, you're still out of soap for almost 2 weeks and at ~$50 shipping charges via $7K insured ground.

Cheers,
Scott

Originally posted by guitarman
Re firmware one thing to consider is I'm pretty sure they have to reset the machines before the add a firmware. That hoses the factory calibrations which they would re-do after the firmware install. It was this way with my Optoma H30.

Probably best to have the factory do it, they have the calibration equipment and are familiar with the machine.

Tom (or anyone else who might know),

I hit reset on the image menu screen and selected current while looking at my DVI connected DVD player. Does this mean that I have lost the factory calibrations on this input?

Ira

You can only wipe the projector in the service menu's reset function. The user menu's just reset to the factory calibrated memory's and just for each separate signal. Like you can reset your DVI calibrations and it will leave progressive or interlaced alone.

Tubby, I would get a Bravo D2 to run it through DVI. The H77 is ready for HDCP but you don't need it anyway with the Bravo. The Bravo doesn't have HDCP so it will work even with projectors that aren't copy protected. You get the Bravo from Vinc.com direct. Another option is the 1910 Denon, but research it, see how good it is. DVI players can be fussy but I've had good luck with the Bravo so far. The Bravo also does it's own Letterbox support so you wouldn't need the firmware, except if you wanted to go 2.35/panamorph.

Re firmware, not many PJ's will need the firmware there were only maybe 25 units sent out early in the US. Since then they did develop the Better Letterbox support for using an Panamoprh lens or letting the projector handles NA-dvds on it's own. They won't have any other firmwares I can think of, maybe horizontal shift? QC is good except for the PAL signal problem but we're not effected.


Users that want the firmware, I'd first try and get the Tech area to send out a call tag or cover your ship expense. I would argue the point at first.

Scott right didn't think about that we could right down all the factory numbers. But they did say they wanted to do the firmware.

Does the Bravo 2 actually up-convert to 720p? Also I wonder if my DVD X Copy "back up" DVD-R's will play and convert on this machine? Thanks.

Originally posted by tubby
Does the Bravo 2 actually up-convert to 720p? Also I wonder if my DVD X Copy "back up" DVD-R's will play and convert on this machine? Thanks. It does. Don't know about Xcopy but DVD shrink backups work fine. I use them to keep kids from destroying originals (after 3rd copy of SpyKids :) ) I don't love the D2, it has some ergonomic little annoyances, but overall it's OK and it's done fine for playing regular DVD's, backup DVD's and homemade movies DVD's for me.

Is it imperative that one use an upscaling DVD player for optimum PQ with the H77? I currently have an RP82 and would be using it via component. I guess DVI would be better but I'd like to keep that for my HD STB. What is better, component or the RGBHV? I could use that instead of DVI for my STB?

Tom mentioned the Denon 1910, so I thought I'd just mention that the Denon 1910 has a macroblocking problem. I saw it and Kris Deering noted it as well in this survey (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=120) of DVD players.

Dan

OK, I must be a bit slow. I looked back in this thread and saw where Tom said that you can get to the service menu by pressing Re-sync, Enter, and Source at the same time.

Well, I tried this and got nothing. At the time I was on the DVI input with the DVD player providing its "waiting to play a disk" screen. About the only thing that happened is if I hit Source before the other buttons, the PJ started looking for other signals.

Any suggestions? I would like to check my firmware version.

Thanks,
Ira

Ira: You weren't explicit so just in case... You were doing in on the PJ, right? It works for me when in DVI input mode. It wouldn't work for me if I had no locked-in signal but it sounds like you do with the DVD players output.

Originally posted by iblumberg
OK, I must be a bit slow. I looked back in this thread and saw where Tom said that you can get to the service menu by pressing Re-sync, Enter, and Source at the same time.

Well, I tried this and got nothing. At the time I was on the DVI input with the DVD player providing its "waiting to play a disk" screen. About the only thing that happened is if I hit Source before the other buttons, the PJ started looking for other signals.

Any suggestions? I would like to check my firmware version.

Thanks,
Ira
offcource you do know that you need to push the buttons on the pj itself and not the remote?

re-sync, source, enter,

(did I jot that down wrong some where? lmk and I'll fix it)

on the PJ

hehe,
V.c08 June 30 2004 -- NTSC
Lamp Hours 307
Display Hours 534

Well that's where I'm at right now. I guess the NTSC is why the rumor spread that there's different type for US vs Euro.

Hmmm, Lamp Hours 307 but display hours 534, :) wonder what that means on how much time I have left?

While I'm at it.

DPTV3Dpro setting
Noise reduction (On
SD/DF Comb Filter (Auto
Gamma (Off
Motion Detection (Off
Image Format 800X600 (native)

Interesting stuff.

Color Wheel Indes 31 and locked out :(

Picture
Gain Red 127
Gain G 115
Gain B 110

Bias Red 114
Bias G 125
Bias B 100

DLP brightness and contrast all at 50

ADC,
Red Gain 187
Green G 160
BLue G 187

Red offset 51
Grean Off 58
Blue off 55

Interesting on the ADC contrast or gains are pushed high.

Black Cal/Wite Cal, Magneta Cal Stand clear. Hit those and all these sub numbers will change.

Cilent1, your more than good with the RP82 and opting to use DVI for you HD connection. The Bravo is cleaner but the RP82 has better deinterlacing. The Bravo sometimes has to be reset the RP82 doesn't, so it's a trade off. I have a XP30 hooked up also and swich around.

There is someone on VideogoN selling a NEW H77 for $5500, including a chief mount.

There's a review in the new issue of Home Theater Mag on the Bravo D2. They give it 95 for video and performance.

I guess this is getting of the topic but the Bravo web site mentions macrovision blocking. Is this the same as HDCP? I gues i'm prety confused about copyright stuff.

Cilent1, your more than good with the RP82 and opting to use DVI for you HD connection. The Bravo is cleaner but the RP82 has better deinterlacing. The Bravo sometimes has to be reset the RP82 doesn't, so it's a trade off. I have a XP30 hooked up also and switch around

Thanks Tom. Is there any difference in using the Component or RGBHV inputs on the H77? Are they both the same? Excuse my ignorance :confused:

It's the same, RGBHV is good for computers.

Macro most all dvd players so you can't make copys.

Originally posted by iblumberg
If it is still the same as when I was watching it, Enterprise is not broadcast in HD or any similar wide screen format. Instead, it is just matted, i.e., they put black bars top and bottom. For a show like this, and for those annoying DVDs that are also matted rather than anamorphic, just select the "LetterBox" format in the H77 format menu.

It took me about a week to figure this out, but now it works well for me.

Ira

I selected "Letterbox" last night while re-playing Enterprise (Tivo rocks!) - anyway, the image stretched vertically to fill the full height of the screen, but it did not stretch at all horizontally - thus Captain Archer's face appeared to be much longer than usual :)

I have contacted Optoma about flashing the firmware to C11. They said that it would take at least 5 hours as they have to 1) reclaibrate and 2) run it in QA for two hours to verify that everything is still up to snuff. While I appreciate their testing my box, I don't understand why they should need to test *my* H77 if they have already verified that C11 works on H77s...

One more tidbit of info, as I do not want to be without PJ for even a single night (yes, my wife is jealous), I was pushing to drop it off in the morning and pick it up the same evening - they would not let me do this... they said that they need 24 hours to handle any issue that may occur. Again, other then dropping the box, I don't understand what could go wrong with flashing a box with firmware that has been tested to work on boxes of that type...

Kent

Hey guys,

Quick question. I am looking at replacing my G90 CRT with one of the top DLPs like the Marantz VP-12S3/4 or the Optoma H77. The ONLY reason I am doing this is due to a medical condition that is slowing down my business and I need the extra cash I will make from selling the G90 and going to one of these DLPs. I am getting good prices on them, so I should be able to make about $3-5K on the transactions.

Can someone who has first hand experience with both the Sony G90 CRT and an Optoma H77 give me their honest impression on what I will lose in terms of image quality compared to the G90. I know the H77 is not really a match for the G90, as it is the best 9" CRT projector out there, but in terms of a percentage with the G90 being 100%, what would you say the H77 is???

I have owned and seen the following DLPs as a matter of comparison:

Sharp 12K
Sharp 10K
T A W Stealth/Immersive Virtuoso
Marantz VP-12S3
Marantz VP-12S4
Infocus 7205

Thanks for ANY input you can provide:)!!!

The H77 is very close in style to the HC-models 12s3 and 12k, with the Optoma having more brightness. So picture one of those two with a more TV like picture.

H77 = very nice colors, low dither, good blacks , good brightness. Oh lets not forget the quietest digital available.

That's my opinion, maybe some other users can add.

Wow its surprising to me there are so many issues with the H77.

I have had mine going on 2 months and 125hrs later and about 35+ movies and everything is smooth and colorful. I do not have one complaint :)

I am running the H77 with the iscan HD with SDI input and the Pioneer 59AVi with SDI output. I run the DVI and RGBHV(HD15 to BNC Breakout) cables from the iScan to handle both analog and digital signals.

Playstation 2 and Xbox are just awesome picture wise on my H77.

Steve

I think most issues are related to PAL video format users. Never under estimate the difference between NTSC and PAL - the software can be quite different. I know - I edit video on a video editing device that is from Germany. We always have more bugs software program wise because the hardware and software is built / developed in a PAL format country, then the software is modified for NTSC. They always fix the bugs eventually, and it will be the same with the PAL H77 too.

Took a few shots this morning with camera replacement (same model) smashed the other one. :(

A favorite movie of mine, bit filmy non-anamorphic but never the less a great movie.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77pope1.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77pope2.jpg

New movie, nice pastels in arctic scene.
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77dayafter1.jpg

Craig, think I should paint the Cosmo case? I should paint the whole room but you know that story.

Nice pix Tom and thanks all for the comments about the G90/H77 comparison:)

I may bite on the one that is for sale on the AVS/Videogon Marketplace. Does anyone know or have any comments on Wayne (aka. Funlvr1965), the seller? Is he a good guy to deal with? He sounds great on the phone and has some good positive feedback.

Why not? Paint it flat black. And stop posting these pics - I can't buy a H77 until I finish our addition / remodel ( started yesterday - grading, digging footings today ! ) and you're driving me nuts!! : )

Dave, he's probably ok, maybe he bought from AVS, if so you'd be helping out their customer. If not you might want to try AVS, their price was great, plus you'd keep the warranty personal.

Did I handle that right? ;)

Craig, sri I had to test my new camera. :)

Originally posted by DHarp193
I may bite on the one that is for sale on the AVS/Videogon Marketplace. Does anyone know or have any comments on Wayne (aka. Funlvr1965), the seller? Is he a good guy to deal with? He sounds great on the phone and has some good positive feedback.

If you shop carefully and chat with the folks at AVS, you may well find that the price of a new unit is just a small increment over the price of this used unit. I don't think I can or should say more, but calling around may prove educational.

Ira

Wayne is a great guy and very honest. He help me put up the wall fabric and I know he is putting together his HT room now.

Ira,

The unit he is selling is a new unit, still sealed in the box. It also comes with a Chief ceiling mount. He got it before he moved into a new house, and now realized the throw is too long.

Thanks SteveFred, he told me about you and you're theater he helped with;)!!!

Originally posted by DHarp193
Ira,

The unit he is selling is a new unit, still sealed in the box. It also comes with a Chief ceiling mount. He got it before he moved into a new house, and now realized the throw is too long.

Thanks SteveFred, he told me about you and you're theater he helped with;)!!!

In that case, it sounds like a good deal. Sorry for the confusion.

Ira

Hi,

I am also thinking about buying either the H77 or the HC2000. Thanks for all the information provided in this thread.

As the Lumagen Vision I own provides outstanding scaling, I would like to still use it in the future.

I read in the HC2000 manual that the normal analog RGB connection will not accept a 1280x720 signal. So it probably is necessary to feed a YPbPr with 720p into the projector.

What would be the best connection between the Vision and one of the above projectors?

Thanks,
Emil

The best for me is 1280X720 60HZ over DVI or Component YPbPr.

I am using DVI for my DVD player (denon 1910) so I can either get a dvi switcher or use componet for my HDTV STB. (direct TV) I would rather save the money and get the componet, but in doing so will I lose much PQ compared to the DVI route

HDK

Originally posted by hdk
I am using DVI for my DVD player (denon 1910) so I can either get a dvi switcher or use componet for my HDTV STB. (direct TV) I would rather save the money and get the componet, but in doing so will I lose much PQ compared to the DVI route

HDK

I have not tried component HD input, but I suspect you won't lose much if any signal quality. However, I'd be worried about when DirecTV implements the dreaded broadcast flag and your STB refuses to output greater than 480p over component. Then you will be forced to go DVI with HDCP.

Ira

just thought I would pipe in here with some more testing...

I've been calibrating units for customers... I'm regularly getting at least 2900:1 contrast ratio on stock H77s and have been seeing into 3K+...

the newer units actually track greyscale better than my initial release unit... rock solid flat 6500K.... and as for colors.... this is the closest I've ever gotten to hitting the CIE color points on anything I've tested so far... greens are deep....

This is without question the best value in projectors right now....

Hi Shane - great info. What did you use for the contrast measurements? Colorfacts or a light meter?

Is the red deficient enough to warrant an FL-Day filter, or is something like a yellow filter better? Any info regarding the colour strengths from the lamp would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Gary.

Thanks Ira, I hadn't thought about that. That makes me want to look closer at the DVI cables.

HDK

Originally posted by hometheaterdoc
just thought I would pipe in here with some more testing...

I've been calibrating units for customers... I'm regularly getting at least 2900:1 contrast ratio on stock H77s and have been seeing into 3K+...

the newer units actually track greyscale better than my initial release unit... rock solid flat 6500K.... and as for colors.... this is the closest I've ever gotten to hitting the CIE color points on anything I've tested so far... greens are deep....

This is without question the best value in projectors right now....

CIE is excellent, I saw another ISF's tests chart, color points almost exatly to the mark.

Hope Kevin doesn't mind, here's his quote.
"This is one of the most accurate set of colors that we have measured out of the box on any projector."
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/H77cies.jpg

Here's some more fun stuff, I took some shots this morning using the Colorfacts Numbers a member posted earlier, -10 on his R-contrast.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77gray2limit1.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77gray2limit2.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77gray2limit3.jpg

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77gray2mad1.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77gray2mad2.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77gray2mad3.jpg

Here's a FifthE shot, I'll dig up my previous calibration shot and add it to compare.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77gray2fifth2.jpg

Comparison shot/old tuning.
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77bravovivor.jpg

Here's what I figure the difference is. The new CF numbers have the RGB-brightness all increased by 5 to 7 clicks. The RGB-contrasts are all lowered 10 to 15 clicks. The increase on the brightness RGB's has opened up the black detail a little better. Why you see more color/red/bronze in the Survivor shot.

I still love my H77, but finally got into the service menu and I do indeed have C08 firmware. I think I will find a few days when I don't need the PJ and drop it off with Optoma for an update, calibration, cleaning, etc. Since Optoma is only 20 minutes from my office, it should be fairly painless.

On another front, I am using the Denon 1910 with the H77 with the 720p DVI interface. Unfortunately, I continue to have lip sync issues. With many movies, the lip sync wanders from about perfect to very badly out of sync. It appears consistent in that the same scene always seems to play the same way, either with good sync or bad.

I don't have another DVI source handy, so I can't really determine whether the problem is with the PJ or the DVD player. This definitely did not happen with my Panny RP82 using 480p component. I may buy the Denon 2910 when there is some local stock and compare it to the 1910. There are a few other things about the 1910 that are a bit disappointing anyway, so I may well be happier with the 2910, particularly if it fixes the sound problem. Sadly, my 1910 is beyond the point where I can return it. However, if it turns out to be the problem, it will go straight to Denon with a note not to return it until it is perfect.

Anyone have any thoughts on this odd sound sync problem?

Thanks,
Ira

The H77 (US) version is obviously more in the news than the P.E.

Originally posted by Fishhooks
The H77 (US) version is obviously more in the news than the P.E.

Well thats because the pal units are on hold/stopped/never really released depending on who you talk too.

We are awaiting the 'first' real pal units in the comming weeks. My personal guess is half nov. The very few units out have been proven to have problems that we all hope will be solved by then.

Daniel (who has had a pal H77 on order for a few moons now :( ).

Originally posted by iblumberg
On another front, I am using the Denon 1910 with the H77 with the 720p DVI interface. Unfortunately, I continue to have lip sync issues. With many movies, the lip sync wanders from about perfect to very badly out of sync. It appears consistent in that the same scene always seems to play the same way, either with good sync or bad.

Anyone have any thoughts on this odd sound sync problem?

Thanks,
Ira

Ummm.... without question it is an issue with the DVD player..... the projector is just displaying the video you feed it from the DVD player... if there is a gap between the video playing and the audio, then the DVD player is out of sync. There could conceivably be an issue where the Optoma is taking a fraction of a second longer from the time the signal is sent to the projector until it is actually displayed, but then almost any video display device has an inherent bit of latency here...

Does your receiver or processor have adjustable audio delay to account for the lip synch problem? that would be the easiest fix.... although if you say it isn't consistent and is variable in its amount, I don't know what to tell you other than to try in the DVD players forum to see if others are having the same problem with the 1910....

Originally posted by Gary Lightfoot
Hi Shane - great info. What did you use for the contrast measurements? Colorfacts or a light meter?

Is the red deficient enough to warrant an FL-Day filter, or is something like a yellow filter better? Any info regarding the colour strengths from the lamp would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Gary.

I'm using the full suite of Colorfacts, which admittedly isn't the greatest tool in the world for contrast measurements... but instead of getting wildly varying numbers, I'm getting very consistent numbers across the board when doing repeated measurements at different times.... so if the numbers are off, they are consistently off....

I've got the eye beamer, the Trichromat, and the Accupel signal generator...

It's a very, very small touch deficient in Red, but not anywhere near as much as other units I've tested... maybe Sim2 is better, but they tend to overdo the reds a little... so a filter would help a little, but I'm doubtful you'd see as dramatic a change as when you put it on other machines....

Ira:

I would try is using your Denon via component. This may rule out DVI as an issue, and you won't have to bother finding another DVI source.

Pip

I heard just yesterday that the Optics Engineers are working diligently on the contouring of the 50hz PAL signal. So not finished yet but working hard to fix.

Originally posted by guitarman
I heard just yesterday that the Optics Engineers are working diligently on the contouring of the 50hz PAL signal. So not finished yet but working hard to fix.
we have the same problem with ntsc disc's, so I am not so sure we can call it a pal problem, it's more like the batch sent to europe was bad.

Originally posted by guitarman
I heard just yesterday that the Optics Engineers are working diligently on the contouring of the 50hz PAL signal. So not finished yet but working hard to fix.

Hi guitarman,

Could you all do us a HUGE favour and ask them to mail you when they are done and tell us when production starts ?

Last week we heard, its fixed we are just doing some extra testing, If production and shipping takes 4 to 6 weeks as they told me this means we are in europe now in december allready.

We have been waiting since september and getting the a few more weeks line, both the H77 and iscanHD+ seems to be delayed again this is no fun.... :(

Daniel.

Originally posted by jfinneru
we have the same problem with ntsc disc's, so I am not so sure we can call it a pal problem, it's more like the batch sent to europe was bad.

Our Engineer just got back from Taiwan. He mentioned the 50hz giving the contouring problem which he saw. Said the Optics guys are frantically working to fix it.

So many different reports on the mits and the H77 of good and bad. Good progressive/bad interlaced, good DVI.

I can't get a time line on the fix. Figure they're close, didn't someone say a hardware/software fix was established. They'll hv to be careful and make sure the whole shipment will be working right.

Yeah, I'm seriously beginning to doubt we'll see these in Europe until probably the end of November now which is very depressing I have to say... I too thought they'd fixed the problem last week! We really could do with an official statement from Optoma to stop all these rumours flying around...

Cheers
Andy

For what I have read under this link the halo problem and false countour is not only available on PAL models. I have made tests also with ntsc dvd and I have seen the same problems on both HC 2000 and H77 projectors :

Dark scenes with bright lights and defocused backgrounds did reveal some false-contouring under certain conditions, but it was rare and never really distracted us from the overall impressive picture quality on the H77.

http://www.laaudiofile.com/h77.html

There's a hugh difference in using NTSC vs PAL.

Copied from the Mits tread.

My H77 ntsc,
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77u571.jpg

Same shot larger in hi-res
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77u571hr.jpg

Here's the offending contour on a Euro H77, same shot.
http://img85.exs.cx/img85/5016/Photo277.jpg

Yes Tom but your NTSC source is played on a North American unit. If you took the same NTSC source and played it on a problem European machine they will still see false contouring. For European machines the problem is on 'all sources'.

The picture does show there's hope. :)

The way I figure Europe got a first batch with a designed firmware for 50hz/PAL but they didn't notice the contouring before the ship. The firmware's effected all the signals now.

Is the contouring easy to see at first? Or is it just on sub-dark scene's like the U-571 clip.

my HC2000 europe edition had contouring on all signals and all sources, PAL discs NTSC discs interlaced/progressive and DVI. only real difference: its a european model probably first batch.

tom, you can see the problem on almost every movie. just take a fade-in or a fade-out landscape scene, which happens often, the colors of the clouds or even the whole sky u will see awful banding/contouring.
in almost every face, theres banding/contouring if you look close enough...

in dark scenes with one light it is very obvious, like coffin of kill bill 2 or u571 and similar scences.

I am kind of curious. Can someone in US play a PAL dvd?

Does it mean the US units cannot play PAL DVDs? If they can, then it will just raise a lot of questions on why the european units are bad since there is nothing to improve. If the US units cannot play PAL DVDs, I thought the H77 is spec to handle both PAL and NTSC???

Originally posted by guitarman
re-sync, source, enter,

(did I jot that down wrong some where? lmk and I'll fix it)

on the PJ

hehe,
V.c08 June 30 2004 -- NTSC
Lamp Hours 307
Display Hours 534

Well that's where I'm at right now. I guess the NTSC is why the rumor spread that there's different type for US vs Euro.

Hmmm, Lamp Hours 307 but display hours 534, :) wonder what that means on how much time I have left?

While I'm at it.

DPTV3Dpro setting
Noise reduction (On
SD/DF Comb Filter (Auto
Gamma (Off
Motion Detection (Off
Image Format 800X600 (native)

Interesting stuff.

Color Wheel Indes 31 and locked out :(

Picture
Gain Red 127
Gain G 115
Gain B 110

Bias Red 114
Bias G 125
Bias B 100

DLP brightness and contrast all at 50

ADC,
Red Gain 187
Green G 160
BLue G 187

Red offset 51
Grean Off 58
Blue off 55

Interesting on the ADC contrast or gains are pushed high.

Black Cal/Wite Cal, Magneta Cal Stand clear. Hit those and all these sub numbers will change.

Cilent1, your more than good with the RP82 and opting to use DVI for you HD connection. The Bravo is cleaner but the RP82 has better deinterlacing. The Bravo sometimes has to be reset the RP82 doesn't, so it's a trade off. I have a XP30 hooked up also and swich around.


Note: just noticed something. If you hit the user reset in the image area it will change the service menu picture settings. I'd write down all my service menu numbers before hitting the reset features in the user menu's.

One more thing if I reset the image area to put the user rgb's back to zero, right this will change the service picture numbers but if I go back to the service area and put the numbers back to stock. when I go back to the user rgb's they are put back to factory. Even though just before I reset them to zero.

Here's the factory RGB's I have in the Image user area from the factory.

R contrast -3
G contrast 3
B contrast -11

R brightness -3
G brightness 3
B brightness -4

Color temp is 2

These initial settings do look great for a progressive player. All the first screen shots were done with these settings.

And the service pictures gains/offsets match the factory ones posted at the top of this post.

Hai,

A small update on the european pal model, ive asked about the confusion still surrounding the state of the H77 and take this info as is :

We expect to get our main stock second week November.
I was at our factory last week to approve the final production samples

This info comes from Len Carlton of optoma uk (Head of Projector Business for Optoma Europe Ltd)

I thank him for his reply but it still leaves me somewhat confused...

Greetings,

Daniel.

PS: i asked him about the people working on the optical problems, no reply yet.

Sounds like he was QC,ing the PAL contouring problem and they're ready to apply it to the stock headed for Euro distribution.

Originally posted by guitarman
Sounds like he was QC,ing the PAL contouring problem and they're ready to apply it to the stock headed for Euro distribution.

Let me add a few more comments made :

-----
we only shipped a handful of units into europe mostly demo units
-----
The USA version is tuned for 60Hz.The Europe version is tuned for 50HZ AND 60Hz.
It uses different sequence codes to optimise 50Hz.
-----
If you use an original USA version for 50Hz you will suffer bad contouring
and screen tear. Due to the need to actively tune for 50Hz PAL.
-----
The only way that users can claim this level of contouring is if they are
buying from the USA. As I said before, the USA version is different.
-----

I feel kinda bad stirring this up but fact seems we expected units in august and all signs now seem
the first real units will be comming middle of november or later.

This doesn't make many of us happy since its not been made clear from the start, Still i respect them for working on the problem as hard as they seem to have done.

Daniel.

Originally posted by alantkh
I am kind of curious. Can someone in US play a PAL dvd?

Does it mean the US units cannot play PAL DVDs? If they can, then it will just raise a lot of questions on why the european units are bad since there is nothing to improve. If the US units cannot play PAL DVDs, I thought the H77 is spec to handle both PAL and NTSC???

I have a couple PAL DVDs here and a BRAVO D2 which I can set the output resolution to PAL Progressive.

I don't have U-571 in PAL format, but on the disks I watched, I saw no contouring, and certainly nothing as awful as what people are showing in those screenshots... I'm going to keep trying though to see if I can pick some of it out... or find a disk that will highlight it for me....

Originally posted by guitarman
Note: just noticed something. If you hit the user reset in the image area it will change the service menu picture settings. I'd write down all my service menu numbers before hitting the reset features in the user menu's.


Great. I thought I noticed the picture change when I did a reset last week. Of course I didn't write down any of the settings before hitting reset. After doing the reset, but making no other adjustments, the gray scale now looks more neutral, but the picture seems to have less "punch." I guess this is just one more thing the factory can work on when I return my unit for the firmware upgrade.

Ira

You could try my service menu Picture numbers.

Gain Red 127
Gain Green 115
Gain Blue 110

Bias Red 114
Bias Green 125
bias Blue 100

Hey Euro guys, I heard today last Friday they pretty well nailed the PAL problem. Won't be long. :)

Originally posted by guitarman
Hey Euro guys, I heard today last Friday they pretty well nailed the PAL problem. Won't be long. :)

Well as i understood it, they signed of on the production run, but means it will get to europe about second week of november. Then they need to be shipped to the different preorders around europe. so not so long is 4 weeks.

Daniel.

Once you get one sorted out they are a sweet projector. Make note not to hit the reset under the Image menu. At least not before you write down your service menu numbers. Particually the Picture ones. Let us know how the final Pj looks with your setup?
May your projectro arrive sooner than you think? :)


Note:
Here's an easy tip to see which color temp hits 6500k best. Bring up a gray steps pattern and toggle the color temps, you got 1,2,3.

This morning I took a look at these and color temp 2 made the gray steps pure gray, color temp 1 had some red in there, 3 a little blue.

What color temp and gamma's have you guys settled on?

OK -- I've been reading and lurkig for months, and I'm ready to finally order my Optoma H77 projector. The question remains about screen size. I would like to go to 119" if possible but will settle with 110" if i NEED to. My dealer has recommended the Firehawk, but we both have concerns whether this will be bright enough at 119". The new HT room will have complete light control, but my wife likes to sit and read while I watch movies sometimes. Will carefully controlled ambient light be the killer at 119" or would going to a smaller screen be more beneficial? Or is the Firehawk magic all that it claims to be?

I guess I'm looking for opinions from someone who owns, or has seen this configuration. In my small town I don't have the luxury of seeing this configuration first hand before purchasing. I'd hate to have it all installed and not be impressed by the picture. I know my other option is the light cannon, SP7205, but the fan noise and less contrasty image or what swayed me to the H77.

Any input would be appreciated.

dD

Tom, did you ever happen to find out if there is a code for silver or white on the box?

Only the first few were Silver, majority and all the latest will be white.

DD, you can go larger with the H77 I tried it many times. I'm at 106" diagoanal and can expand to maybe 130+ diagonal, I won't see a difference in brightness and that's with light falling off all around the screen. Greg and I tested this also, his coment - "it's great you don't lose any brightness or color depth at 136".

You can have defused light in the area also. Firehawk would even amplify the ambient light advantage.

Too many new reviewers stating it's the best thing out there in 720p right now, better jump on it. :)

DigitalDoc, if I were you I'd go no larger than 104" wide. That's what I plan on doing - and probably getting a Dalite Cinema Vision screen. With that combo, Billy Crystals old charactor Fernando would say - " you look maaarvalouuuus!!

Thanks for the advice guys!

Would you recommend the Firehawk over the Dalite CV?? The 1.3 gain of the firehawk is what attracted me -- as 120" diagonal is getting pretty big and most of what I have read says the high gain is better for this projector.

The cost of the screen is not a factor -- i just want to get the BEST image from this projector.

dD

Do you think the price could actually increase with demand? Does that ever happen with DLP projectors? I'm still fighting myself to hold out for a review on the new sharp hopefully comming out in Nov.

I haven't seen prices go up. Competition will keep them lower.

Originally posted by digitalDOC
Would you recommend the Firehawk over the Dalite CV?? The 1.3 gain of the firehawk is what attracted me

Have a look at the Da-Lite High Contrast Cinema Vision. It is a compromise between the cinema vision and the firehawk.

I have it and I like it.

Emil

Originally posted by guitarman
I haven't seen prices go up. Competition will keep them lower.


Hmmm im not sure, many moons ago then it was released they lowered the price
in europe (by 500 euro) then called it a special introduction price. Now with the delays i think
they are just sticking with the lower price, a comment made to me by optoma that is kind of related (we need to ask to be sure the lower introduction price is now fixed) : "Actually we will sell lower price than USA, because we launch later (optoma)".

Sorry if this adds to the confusion,

Daniel.

hi,

just received my replacement HC2000, exactly same banding/contouring problem. got newer firmware C04 from july, old one had C02 from June.

hoping that the H77 fix will/can be applied for the HC2000 also!
is it an firmware only patch or does it include hardware ?

but i havnt heard anything from Mits support yet.

Originally posted by jello
hi,

just received my replacement HC2000, exactly same banding/contouring problem. got newer firmware C04 from july, old one had C02 from June.

hoping that the H77 fix will/can be applied for the HC2000 also!
is it an firmware only patch or does it include hardware ?

but i havnt heard anything from Mits support yet.

Well thats still kinda unclear, they tell me there are no hardware changes but guitarman seems
to say they had a optics team working on it so take your pick .

But i can predict atleast for optoma how this will go, they see the THEMESCENE as a special brand for europe only, any hint to the other optoma model is considered not our product. Sofar THEMESCENE only shipped a handful of machines inside europe im guessing they will all be replaced to end the confusion. This way they don't really have to answer any questions on hardware or software changes. Why might this happen, so they don't need to replace/fix all the ntsc models that as far as i can tell will have atleast some of the problems when watching pal signals.

So im guessing you need to find out what future the HC2000 for europe will be based on, the Themescene or the ntsc h77 (even if they run from the same production line, they will support them as 2 models i guess).

Greetings,

Daniel.

Originally posted by digitalDOC
Would you recommend the Firehawk over the Dalite CV?? The 1.3 gain of the firehawk is what attracted me -- as 120" diagonal is getting pretty big and most of what I have read says the high gain is better for this projector.

The cost of the screen is not a factor -- i just want to get the BEST image from this projector.

dD

If cost is not an issue I personally would definately choose the Firehawk - well obviously because I did :D . I have a 110" with their delux fixed frame and I am very happy with it so far. I got it at a substantially reduced price (PM me if you can't find one) shipped direct from Stewart. I saw them at CEDIA, the Firehawk side-by-side comaparision with their own Studiotek was impressive.

If you have off axis seating like I do ( L shaped LazyBoy sectional sofa - comfy ), I've found the High Contrast Cinema Vision screen has almost no viewing cone, where as the Firehawk does. And the Cinema Vision screen is supposed 1.3 gain. If I get a H77, I plan on getting the CV instead of a HCCV since the H77 doesn't need any help with its black level, and it should be a tad brighter.

Hey I was watching the game in HD last night, people have asked if there's wash out with ambient light. Right behind me the Kitchen lights were on. No wash out still plenty of pop here.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77gamehd1.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77gamehd2.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77gamehd3.jpg

How many hours on the bulb now Tom? Was that in low power, and on the 92" wide cosmo.?

Near 600hrs now, bright mode off.

Bright mode is pretty substantial, you get a TV effect, fan's still sub quiet. Mat white cosmo buddy. I'm accustomed to the mat white's but CV will be a great choice. You getting a tab tensioned again? First try the one you've got.

Tom,

A few question if you don't mind.

1. Are you affiliated with Optoma in anyway?

And for Tom or anyone else:

2. I know you have experience with the Marantz S3. If price were no object, which projector would say had better picture quality? Would you still chose the H77?

3. Does the banding that people are having on pal units (and possible at 50Hz on NTSC units) manifest itself when the projector is in native mode?

4. Do you know if the H77 will take 720p at 48Hz or 72Hz in native mode with or without banding? I would like to use an outboard scalar to send this format and reduce film judder.

Not being able to see a H77 compared to a Sharp 12k, I have having a hard time deciding between a 12k and a H77. It feels like the 12k is a much more rounded product than the H77. My concern is that although I don't doubt that the H77 is excellent, the 12k might be a superior projector.

I on a calibrated/filtered Sharp 9k and love it (mostly). Picture quality is amazing with an outboard scalar. I don't have any picture quality problems with any of my sources and I would expect the 12k to be the same if not better. I just want more brightness, with better contrast and black level, and HDCP DVI. I just fear that the H77 might not be as pleasing to me as my beloved sharp.

Brad

" You getting a tab tensioned again? First try the one you've got. "

The wife complained about the bars on the screen with 2.35:1. So, as soon as I sell some other toys to pay for this stuff, the idea was to get a larger ( wider - 104" or 106" wide ) 2.35:1 CV Tensioned Cosmo Electrol for widescreen 2.35:1 movies, and keep the 92" wide HCCV for 1.85:1 ( masked ) and 4:3 with the HT1000. The power zoom and focus on the H77 makes using two different screens for different aspect ratios both possible, and it's cheaper than an electrically masked screen. Everything will be hidden in soffits - the screens in front, and I'm pulling 2 sets of cables for 2 projectors hidden in a stepped soffit - HT1000 up high in front 13.5 feet from the screen, H77 in the lower / further back step at the back wall at 16.5 feet . I'll be busy with the table saw as soon as the remodel / addition is finished ( we poured concrete this morning at 7 am )!!!

When I get this all done, I'm staying away from here see I don't get " upgradeitis " ( ya, right )!

That is a busy setup. I know I'd hate to give up Full Screen Classic's a Music video's.

It won't be too bad - I'm having dedicated outlets for 2 pj's installed on the ceiling, switched independently with wall switches, and another outlet for an inline fan for cooling. As I always say, " if it's worth doing, it's worth doing to excess " !!

Originally posted by guitarman
Near 600hrs now, bright mode off.

Bright mode is pretty substantial, you get a TV effect, fan's still sub quiet. Mat white cosmo buddy. I'm accustomed to the mat white's but CV will be a great choice. You getting a tab tensioned again? First try the one you've got.

Sorry if i missed this earlier, thats a 92" screen? It seems pitch black around the edges of the screen, was the light form the kitchen making it as far as the screen?

Thanks for the pictures tho, i really appreciate it!

John

Wow Tom 600hrs???

I have about 180hr on my H77 and I thought I was using it alot :):)

Watching sports in HD on a 119" screen is just frickin awesome.

I have 8 wall scones and I usually have 4 on in the room (for the wife) and there is no wash out. And each bulb is a 60 watter(cover is dark purple)

http://www.stevesreefroom.com/DSCN4232.JPG

I swear the HD picture almost looks 3D at times :)

Steve

The main room gets light from the adjoining Kitchen. I never have to insist on having the lights off. Specially if i want dinner. :)

It's somewhat defused by the counter cabinets. Of course you always want the light defused in some way. Shine light on any screen and you'll have problems. I also have a 6500k light blocked in the main room, it won't wash out the screen either.

Image is 106" diagonal, 92"wide.

Brad, you have to get a good look at each projector. Optoma factory is a half hour away from me. I've been there and met many poeple. The good thing is I can contact the engineer/designer directly if there's ?'s.

" Are you affiliated with Optoma in anyway? " - Ha ha, Tom has a cigar store Brad. He just likes great projected video. Having seen his H77, Im sold. I'm just waiting for the new Sharp to come out and lower the price on the H77, that's all ( well, that and a massive 10 week addition / remodel - small detail )!

Originally posted by bdavidson

3. Does the banding that people are having on pal units (and possible at 50Hz on NTSC units) manifest itself when the projector is in native mode?

Brad

There are no ThemeScene H77 pal units out, the few projectors shipped in europe are either demo units or a handfull of units shipped in the uk & fr. I think its best to call them pre-pal-units or something simple because once the Themescene H77 ships this will add to the confusion.

The first production ThemeScene H77 will be with us Mid Nov, this information was given by me from the person who is responsible for the release of the version.

He also claims that all units out today should have these problems on pal discs depending on signal/luck/i have no idea :)

Greetings,

Daniel.

Originally posted by danielo
There are no ThemeScene H77 pal units out, the few projectors shipped in europe are either demo units or a handfull of units shipped in the uk & fr. I think its best to call them pre-pal-units or something simple because once the Themescene H77 ships this will add to the confusion.

The first production ThemeScene H77 will be with us Mid Nov, this information was given by me from the person who is responsible for the release of the version.

He also claims that all units out today should have these problems on pal discs depending on signal/luck/i have no idea :)

Greetings,

Daniel.

hm weird that I am looking at my THEMESCENE H77 right now... The first batch to europe was like 12 units, and that was the final one, no question about it, I also had a pre version before that. But when they where sent out and we complained to it the distrubution of H77 i europe was cancelled until the problem was solved. So to call the first batch for a pre pal ******** version is wrong. it was a ******** version but not a pre ******** version. I was told by the importer today that the new unit's arrives in week 45.

Hi Danielo,

Let me defend the PAL units released so far. I'm the owner of a UK PAL Themescene H77 'pre-pal-unit' and I'm getting some wonderful pictures. I see some banding on interlaced, but not on other inputs.

I'd love to know who is giving you your information as it seems a little garbled, but worrying nonetheless. I will of course be quoting your comments to Optoma when I'm seeking an exchange unit and I'd love to hear who your source is.

It's a shame that the person feeding you titbits of information couldn't just come clean and post on this thread themselves...it would clarify the situation and make a change from the rumours we've had so far.

I think I probably know almost all of the guys who own H77s in the UK (hi guys ;) ) and between us we have probably owned over 15 projectors. Not a single one of us would deny that the H77 is the best projector we have all owned so far. If they can improve on this then I'll be even more delighted.

Regards,

Ian Guinan

question to other owners. in a dark scene, can you guys se a vertical stripe of light on both sides of the screen, about a foot or two outside the screen? I saw this on the pre model and i see it on the "final" one.
I was on a visit to the projectiondesign unit yesterday and asked my man about this. He told me this was some mistake with the dmd and is a foult. why have I seen it on my two units? anyone else seen it?

A stripe of light two feet outside the screen, no nothing like that here.

Originally posted by Guinan
Hi Danielo,

Let me defend the PAL units released so far. I'm the owner of a UK PAL Themescene H77 'pre-pal-unit' and I'm getting some wonderful pictures. I see some banding on interlaced, but not on other inputs.

I'd love to know who is giving you your information as it seems a little garbled, but worrying nonetheless. I will of course be quoting your comments to Optoma when I'm seeking an exchange unit and I'd love to hear who your source is.

It's a shame that the person feeding you titbits of information couldn't just come clean and post on this thread themselves...it would clarify the situation and make a change from the rumours we've had so far.

I think I probably know almost all of the guys who own H77s in the UK (hi guys ;) ) and between us we have probably owned over 15 projectors. Not a single one of us would deny that the H77 is the best projector we have all owned so far. If they can improve on this then I'll be even more delighted.

Regards,

Ian Guinan


i understand, the source is Len Carlton (Head of Projector Business for Optoma Europe Ltd)

im just not posting all the info since its private email and well that not nice but here is a small
part :

---
If you use an original USA version for 50Hz you will suffer bad contouring
and screen tear. Due to the need to actively tune for 50Hz PAL we are
launching beginning November.
---

and reaction on the demo images on this thread.

---
These images seem to display "contouring". I am not surprised if these are
Optoma units made for the USA.

I can assure you that "a lot" of Pal ThemeScene users are not having this
problem.
How do I know?
Because we only sent out a handful of units into Europe, mostly for demo
purposes!
----

Now i would personally wait until the new units are out and see if all is fixed and then
ask whats up. Im sure they have some plan to fix/replace the very few units now shipped
from the uk. I would advice against taking action now since well he might not talk to me anymore *grin*. I did ask him several times to solve the confusion by releasing a clear statement but sofar it
seems nobody talked.

Daniel.

Originally posted by jfinneru
hm weird that I am looking at my THEMESCENE H77 right now... The first batch to europe was like 12 units, and that was the final one, no question about it, I also had a pre version before that. But when they where sent out and we complained to it the distrubution of H77 i europe was cancelled until the problem was solved. So to call the first batch for a pre pal ******** version is wrong. it was a ******** version but not a pre ******** version. I was told by the importer today that the new unit's arrives in week 45.

I agree 100% with what you are saying but thats not the way they see it i guess. Anyway it seems for them the 45 week batch is the first real version and the batch between demo and 1try was ehmm a mistake :).

Daniel.

For the record, I just had to get my NTSC H77 replaced (replacement getting here tomorrow) due to very bad contouring and banding, especially when there is any motion horizontally and/or bright lights/scenes on a dark background.

At least in my case, it doesn't appear to be limited to only the PAL units:rolleyes: As soon as I mentioned it to tech spt, they immediately said they were going to replace it with a new one, like they knew exactly what the problem was.

It could happen here, a tech said it would be rare but could happen, tuning/timing partly to blame.

Curious, did they treat you direct? Pretty cool if so. Shows they stand
behind the product.
good luck, lets hear about the new one.

so this shows that this problem is NOT LIMITED to PAL versions.

Anyway, I am getting my H77 tmr. Will keep me eyes peeled for such contouring problem

Originally posted by DHarp193
For the record, I just had to get my NTSC H77 replaced (replacement getting here tomorrow) due to very bad contouring and banding, especially when there is any motion horizontally and/or bright lights/scenes on a dark background.

At least in my case, it doesn't appear to be limited to only the PAL units:rolleyes: As soon as I mentioned it to tech spt, they immediately said they were going to replace it with a new one, like they knew exactly what the problem was.

Some simple conclusions based on this :

1) there is a problem

2) its fixed and all people inside are now have a memo on how to handle it

3) Its as i heard not limited to pal

4) its probably a hardware fix why else not tell you to come in for a firmware fix

5) there will be only 1 version on the production line (then split to themescene en optoma)

6) for old users they will probably replaced if a client asks for it, if not they leave the issue

7) i want my H77 instead of playing crime scene inv. on this :)

Daniel.

At least we know its finally fixed. I would like to thank Tom for keeping us all informed about the situation. Now all we need is to see some trouble free units hit Europe!

@jfinneru:

i can see a vertical stripe of light in dark scenes 5cm out of the real picture! (i have not seen this problem on my first HC2000, but now on the replacement it is there)
is this a fault of the DMD which can be fixed via calibration or do i have to change the whole thing ?



does anyone know if this fix is hardware or firmware ? hope to ask mitsubishi support to implement this for the HC2000, too.

Originally posted by alantkh
so this shows that this problem is NOT LIMITED to PAL versions.

Anyway, I am getting my H77 tmr. Will keep me eyes peeled for such contouring problem

Not to worry, this is one guy. The tracking of where this machine was headed or came from are ?. It went to one non dealer and then to one user then to it's final resting place. Wouldn't surprise me if this was a Pal Beta model. Is the case Silver?

Originally posted by jello
@jfinneru:

i can see a vertical stripe of light in dark scenes 5cm out of the real picture! (i have not seen this problem on my first HC2000, but now on the replacement it is there)
is this a fault of the DMD which can be fixed via calibration or do i have to change the whole thing ?



does anyone know if this fix is hardware or firmware ? hope to ask mitsubishi support to implement this for the HC2000, too.

my man at projectiondesign told me that it is not supposed to be like that. I have also seen it on one sharp pj. It's not a bright stripe, so it doesn't bother me that much, but I would have felt better if it wasn't there

Two feet outside the video area, sounds impossible being light ends at the frame border of the DMD chip.

Originally posted by guitarman
Two feet outside the video area, sounds impossible being light ends at the frame border of the DMD chip.
my mistake, I didn't mesure before I wrote, and we don't use feet:D
either way it's just outside the screen on both sides. You won't notice it before a realy dark scene.

Originally posted by guitarman
...Wouldn't surprise me if this was a Pal Beta model. Is the case Silver?

Tom,

Thanks for all your help via PM on this:)!!!

No, the case was not silver, it was white. I got the new projector this morning and hooked it up real quick so my son could watch AoTC (Gotta keep the screaming son happy, now don't we:D), while I got some work done!!!

I wiill try to test it further this weekend to see whether this unit has the same problem.

Dave,

How smooth was the replacement process overall? Did you have to send your old unit back first before Optoma sent you the replacement? Do they cover the shipping costs?

I do have motion/contouring prob. w/ mine but I don't want to end up without a projector for a long time.

doubleespresso,

It was VERY smooth and they were a pleasure to deal with, unlike MANY other companies.

The only problem I had was that they didn't take Discover Card;)!!!

They paid for shipping of the old one and the replacement. I had them do what's called an "Advance Replacement" whereas they charge my cc the same price I paid for it, then send out the new one immediately. When I receive it, I make sure all is good with the replacement, then send in the defective unit to them with an RMA number. As soon as they receive it, they credit my card back the full amount. That way you are not out a single day. If you have the credit available on a card, it is well worth it since the credit will most likely show up before the first bill even arrives.

Great info, Dave. Thanks! I'll be calling them.

All,

I posted an issue regarding letterbox support on page 41 of this thread. The responses I got back encouraged me to have Optoma upgrade my firmware from C08 to C11 - that some known letterbox bug was fixed since C08. I have done this but there is NO change in the letterbox behavior I am experiencing.

Again, for a quick recap, I am viewing SDTV (network channels) using an HD Tivo connected via HDMI and component to the H77. The following pics have been doctored using GIMP, but they tell me story well...

This is what I have:
http://watsen.net/kent/fifth-what_I_have.jpg

This is what letterbox format gives me:
http://watsen.net/kent/fifth-what_letterbox_gives_me.jpg

This is what I want:
http://watsen.net/kent/fifth-what_I_want.jpg


Again, I do have C11... Also, can anybody say if the H77 is supposed to automatically detect the need to use letterbox mode? - I have to do it manually, which is cumbersome for casual TV viewing...

Thanks!
Kent (Sachi's dad)

Have you changed the TIVO box to output 720p I assume although you are watching SD tv that the picture is letterboxed. If not, you may want to use the window format.

Dallas

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77bravovivor.jpg

I don't have a Tivo but do use a Replay TV, SD is 4.3 from my replay TV. The Letterbox aspect on the H77 is for non-anamorphic widescreen dvd's. Try one of those and see what letterbox gives you. Movies like Army of Darkness, Armageddon, Event Horizon.

4.3 material will have to use the window box aspect. If there's a widescreen movie on your Tivo, you'll have the side bars and bars above and below, no getting around that.

Originally posted by jfinneru
my mistake, I didn't mesure before I wrote, and we don't use feet:D
either way it's just outside the screen on both sides. You won't notice it before a realy dark scene.

One thing, if you use 16.9native and down zoom an image, put the brightness to maximum, you'll see a thin frame border. Is this what you're seeing. The frame will not be visable if the blacks/brightness are set the the correct level.

Originally posted by guitarman
One thing, if you use 16.9native and down zoom an image, put the brightness to maximum, you'll see a thin frame border. Is this what you're seeing. The frame will not be visable if the blacks/brightness are set the the correct level.
I will get back to you on this one. Right now I am testing 6 dvd players and while I am waiting for a good h77 I use an Infocus7205 for the pictures. Not to bad a substitute I think;)

ok,

I have just got my H77.

The very FIRST clip I asked my dealer to demo was the lord of the ring NEW LINE cinema logo. Horrors, I saw very bad contouring just like what was posted on the HC2000.

But after some debugging.... the dealer found out that the problem lies in the reciever. Somehow, if you connect the DVD player direct to the projector there is no such problem.

Wonder if it is the case for some of the users here.

Anyway, satisfied so I bought my H77 home and did more testing. My new place is not ready so I am using

1) SUPER cheap samsung dvd player with only interlaced output (s-video)
2) Xbox dvd player with progressive out. (component)

projecting onto white wall at night.

Basically I played the whole intro scene from DVE.

For the interlaced output from the samsung DVD player there is VERY noticeable banding during the space shuttle take off scene where there is fast panning of the clouds. It is DEFINATELY a problem as it is VERY obvious.

There is VERY marked improvement when I switched to progressive out of my xbox. The banding of the white clouds is basically not there.

There is some slight bandling on my xbox output from the LOTR intro scene but MUCH better than the one shown on the forum. definitely not enough to irritate me.

My dealer say my is a PAL (white) unit.

In conclusion, my H77 is sensitive to the kind of input it gets. Progressive out from my Xbox is pretty ok. Picture is not perfect but DEFINATELY without those horrible contour pictures posted.

However it was a DIFFERENT story with the interlaced out from my sumsung player, or when the input was routed through a yamaha reciever.

So advice to anyone with similar problems, connect the DVD player direct to Projector.

Anyway can't say much about the picture quality other than it looks ok on my white wall :) I am as satisfied as I can be with a white wall picture. so I packed my H77 into its box and will wait for one month for my reno to complete.

Thanks for your impressions. One thing though. The Xbox only outputs 480i through component when playing DVD's. Are the PAL versions different? You may have much better results with a true 480P output player over component.

Alan, if you are just packing it up for a month wouldn't you have been better off waiting for the fixed versions to appear in a few weeks time?

Andy

The Yamaha receiver probably didn't work correctly with an AC coupling of a component signal vs. DC coupling. I had a problem once with my Sunfire processor (TGIII). When I ran an AC coupled component signal from my iSCAN HD into it (and then ran it to my display - a Toshiba HD set), the picture would be horrible. If I went directly to the set (skipping the component switching in my processor), everything looked fine. I know that DVDO switched to AC coupled component signals on the iSCAN HD mainly because of PAL related smearing issues. All of the previous scalers were DC coupled. SJ

alan, why store it for one month? then it's better to wait for the new ones. your as foulty as the rest, you just need som time with it to notice. Actually I wonder why they sold it to you in the first place wen they now it's foulty.

Jfinneru

My dealer insist that there is no problem with the PAL unit. I have looked at the LOTR intro scene and it is fine so until I notice some problem myself, I cannot insist that the set is faulty :) . So any other scenes to look out for? I have extended LOTR 1 and 2 and DVE calibration disc as reference.

I do not have the U571 disc so I cannot check that scene. Did you check the LOTR intro scene posted by Jello on his HC2000? Does the H77 exhibit the same contouring problem? I am 100% sure that there is no significant problem on that scene on my H77.

My xbox is component is progressive out due to modifications.

I took delvery of my unit because I place my order quite sometime ago and it is not very nice to keep postponing the delivery (due to some delays in my renovations).

Anyway my reference is a pixelplus CRT TV. Basically I looked at the image from the optoma and then the image from the CRT. Basically now I am just looked for problems with the image that appears only on the H77 but not the CRT. I am happy to say I have not found any.

SJHT,

sorry, do you mean that the reciever must be AC-coupled at the output or input?

I am thinking of getting the rotel 1068.

alantkh
If you have the new 'Troy' dvd, I noticed quite a lot of contouring at the start of the movie (on my HC2000).

I bought a copy of U571 and took some screenshots of my H77.

note that the red dots are from my camera... too dark so got hot pixels. nothing to do with H77. So is there contouring? IMO, no. so I am happy.

http://pisduck.com/h77/a.jpg

http://pisduck.com/h77/b.jpg

http://pisduck.com/h77/c.jpg

So basically,

to tell you the truth, I think I got all worried about nothing.

There is really no such contouring problem on my set. But the panning is not very smooth, dunno if it is my xbox progressive output. But still images have no problem.

Yep, can't really see a issue with contouring on your set. The gradiation is actually quite smooth. If you compare it to the shots on the problem machines you will notice the dramatic difference and why the whole thing has been such a big issue.

BTW I have read elsewhere that if the lens is offset by a large amount (due to room placement issues) then you are more likely to see panning problems.

So actually the majority of the H77 seems to be fine. As I said it can be a setup issue. I would advise anyone who have contouring problems check their source first b4 pin pointing the issue on the H77.

I made the mistake of assuming that the H77 was at fault when I saw contouring at first and my dealer got a little irritated with me. :)

It was a setup issue. Of course, for those guys in Europe, the problem seems to be too prevalent to be a setup issue.

well in my case it's not a setup issue. you might just be the lucky one to get one that's actually works fine. Have you seen on the firmware if this is a pal or a ntsc model?
the wierd thing is that in the projector show in stockholm, sweden this weekend they got one h77 from the states and used that one in a shootout. It did very good an it was with pal disc's, so what's the deal in the first place to have one ntsc and one pal model?

His U571 shots look the same.

my shots from earlier.
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77u571.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77u571hr.jpg

It is interesting his show no problem. Date of mfg maybe.
Mine is a Silver model which I understand is the first batch, all the later ones are white.
V.c08 June 30 2004 NTSC

My color wheel index is 31.

What info do you get on this? In the service menu?

(re-sync, source, enter) on the pj direct. Don't make any changes in there if you don't need to. Writing down the Picture numbers in the SM area is a good idea. I discovered if you hit the user reset feature in the user Image menu the service picture numbers will change.

You may like the colors as the are now, so writing down the Picture service numbers can get you back there, if you happen to use the Image reset feature.

I'll hv to find out why the PJ does this. I assume it's sensing the electronics you're using like DVD player of STB, than adjusting to match up better re voltage.

Something like what the auto calibration features in ADP do. Again don't use the auto calibraions in the ADP area if you like your colors now. These match up for electronic and white/black on screen patterns. Never use the auto cal Magenta as there is no on screen Magenta you could produce that would be accurate. Good reason why I say not to make changes in the service area. Use it for info mainly.

Originally posted by alantkh
SJHT,

sorry, do you mean that the reciever must be AC-coupled at the output or input?

I am thinking of getting the rotel 1068.

All I know is that when I fed an AC-coupled component signal into my TGIII and then ran the output (from the TGIII) to my HD set, it would not work. The TGIII did not like the input signal. When I input a DC-coupled signal into my TGIII and then to my HD set, everything worked fine. Also, if I fed the AC-coupled signal directly to my HD set, everything is fine. Problem is with the switching component of th TGIII. DVDO actually modified my iSCAN HD to output a DC-coupled signal (which then worked great in any configuration into my TGIII). SJ

Tried pressing resync, source, enter on the projector but did not work.

Hung my projector once :)

Is the button press together or consecutively?

But dun think will try it anymore since everything is packed up. My dealer says that the H77 is sensitive to the DVD player.

Hit them in unison. May take a couple of tries.

Update:

Got the new projector, still banding in the background scenes and in horizontal pans. For some stupid reason, they sent me another unit with c08 firmware and not the updated c11:rolleyes: Anybody understand that one??? I specifically mentioned to them that I had the old firmware and needed one with new:mad:

I also tried connecting directly to the source to avoid the AC/DC coupling issue mentioned earlier...no dice, still the same result. Although the image does look a little deeper/cleaner. I guess I'm losing a little bandwidth when switched through my Lexicon MC-12B?

Originally posted by DHarp193
Update:

Got the new projector, still banding in the background scenes and in horizontal pans. For some stupid reason, they sent me another unit with c08 firmware and not the updated c11:rolleyes: Anybody understand that one??? I specifically mentioned to them that I had the old firmware and needed one with new:mad:

I also tried connecting directly to the source to avoid the AC/DC coupling issue mentioned earlier...no dice, still the same result. Although the image does look a little deeper/cleaner. I guess I'm losing a little bandwidth when switched through my Lexicon MC-12B?

Well it would seem that the 'fixed/pal' units would only be with us the second week of november, I don't see how the US could get new units if some of the fixes are also spilling into the ntsc version before that date unless they did more testing for pal.

Daniel.

Originally posted by DHarp193
Update:

Got the new projector, still banding in the background scenes and in horizontal pans. For some stupid reason, they sent me another unit with c08 firmware and not the updated c11:rolleyes: Anybody understand that one??? I specifically mentioned to them that I had the old firmware and needed one with new:mad:

I also tried connecting directly to the source to avoid the AC/DC coupling issue mentioned earlier...no dice, still the same result. Although the image does look a little deeper/cleaner. I guess I'm losing a little bandwidth when switched through my Lexicon MC-12B?

Can't image why you're having problems, you're in PA, NTSC 60Hz works fine. I haven't seen any flaws in picture quality. I have C08. 600hrs and tons of material, flawless.

C011 just adds letterbox support. Can you post picture of what you see?

Here's some more fun stuff, I took some shots this morning using the Colorfacts Numbers a member posted earlier, -10 on his R-contrast.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77gray2limit1.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77gray2limit2.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77gray2limit3.jpg

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77gray2mad1.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77gray2mad2.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77gray2mad3.jpg
Tom, were these shots with the XP30 or D1 ?

Those are with the Bravo D1. Sheesh I forgot how great those looked. What snap, pretty sure I used the bright lamp setting also.

Anyone have a pronto .ccf for the H77? Nada on remotecentral...

John

Originally posted by guitarman
Can't image why you're having problems, you're in PA, NTSC 60Hz works fine. I haven't seen any flaws in picture quality. I have C08. 600hrs and tons of material, flawless.

C011 just adds letterbox support. Can you post picture of what you see?

Sure Tom, I'll try to post some pix when I get the chance. It's basically the same thing as what's been shown w/ the PAL units in those U-571 pix with the light in the black background behind the guys head.

I can see it right now while watching MNF in HD on ABC. The players in the foreground look pretty good, but if the camera pans across the sidelines following say the head coach, the player's faces for instance, in the background break into a banded/contoured mess of flesh color. Similar to what you'd see if you set your PC to 8 bit color or something. They look like a water color cartoon:eek:

Dave, there's hope at least. I got MNF going right now also, looks great. Lets see how fast the factory can fix you up. Maybe a hot swap.

OT, but too insane to keep to myself ---
Hey, Not everybody's familar with this series of speakers but I was off line today because I went out the to local thrift store. There were these plain speakers but they had two horns and were heavy so I snagged them, $10 for the pair. Hooked them up to my tube amp and wow what a nice sound. It was killing me so I took the backs off to see what kind of speakers.

Shock, VMPS baby, that's right VMPS at a thrift store for $10. :)

my my!

Expletive,

There is a basic .ccf on the H77 owners thread I did. Not up to remote centrals high standards so haven't posted it yet..needs a few buttons moving around and beautifying.

Ian Guinan

I recently purchased an H77 along with an iScan HD and am having problems when I switch the input of the iScan from my RCA DTC100 over to the DVD input. I've got the DTC100 connected using RGBHV cables and the the DVD player is currently using the RGB Component input 1 on the iScan. The H77 is set to Auto detect the input. When I'm running HDTV material using the DTC100, the iScan is in pass thru mode. When I change to the DVD Component input, I have the iScan set for the native resolution of the H77 (720p). Here's the problem. When I turn on the DVD player and change the iScan input over to Component 1, the projector never locks on a signal from the iScan. It searches through all of the inputs and never locks on any of them. In some cases, the H77 freezes and the only way I can get it out of this freeze mode is to remove power to it. I hate to do this because the lamp never gets the opportunity to cool down. Nothing I do via the H77 remote will get it out of this freeze mode.

Does anyone have any suggestions regarding whether or not this is an H77 problem or an iScan output problem? At this point I'm considering returning the iScan HD and sticking with my older iScan Pro.

I'm about to change the DVD player over to my Samsung HD931 and then I'll be running DVI cables from the iScan to the H77, but for now I'd like to understand why I have this problem.

Thanks.

bbdmac

Originally posted by Guinan
Expletive,

There is a basic .ccf on the H77 owners thread I did. Not up to remote centrals high standards so haven't posted it yet..needs a few buttons moving around and beautifying.

Ian Guinan

Ah great, i'll just link to the codes as i have a layout 'theme' im using on my pronto anyway. Thanks i'll go search for it now!

John

bbdmac,

Try checking the signal lock in the system menu, see if that helps. About hard power downs for projectors in general. This won't hurt the bulb, the key part is to not immediatly turn the projectors back on. Wait a half hour at least. This way the bulbs fully cooled off and won't be worn down by the re-strike.

I just got an Optoma HR77 projector. All is well when I switch inputs with its remote. It works perfectly every time.

When I use a learning remote like the Harmony 676 Remote or a Radio Shack remote the inputs switch correctly only about 25% of the time...argh

Does anybody have any idea why?

Thanks
Chuck

New batterys maybe, welcome another new owner. How's the picture looking? Somthing like this.

Someone asked about shots with the H77 using a Pany XP30 dvd player. Here's some I took this morning.

This has to be what many are liking about the H77, super colors, very nice sub-facile hues. Whoa!

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77vlimit1.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77vlimit2.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77vlimit3.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77vlimit4.jpg

Nice blacks also,
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/darkcitys1.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/darkcity2.jpg

Stop that Tom! My home theater remodel is 8 weeks away and I want one of these H77's now!

Nice pics!! I should stop looking at your pics hehe!! I have to wait till the housing market improves so I can sell my home, buy a new one, and build a dedicated HT room before I can even consider a H77. :)

Keep snapping those pics!!


Originally posted by guitarman
New batterys maybe, welcome another new owner. How's the picture looking? Somthing like this.

Someone asked about shots with the H77 using a Pany XP30 dvd player. Here's some I took this morning.

This has to be what many are liking about the H77, super colors, very nice sub-facile hues. Whoa!

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77vlimit1.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77vlimit2.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77vlimit3.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77vlimit4.jpg

Nice blacks also,
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/darkcitys1.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/darkcity2.jpg

Originally posted by bbdmac
Here's the problem. When I turn on the DVD player and change the iScan input over to Component 1, the projector never locks on a signal from the iScan. It searches through all of the inputs and never locks on any of them. In some cases, the H77 freezes and the only way I can get it out of this freeze mode is to remove power to it. I hate to do this because the lamp never gets the opportunity to cool down. Nothing I do via the H77 remote will get it out of this freeze mode.


This is exactly the problem I had with their previous H76 projector. It would finally come up and say no signal (or something like that) and basically get stuck after scanning all my inputs (which all had active programming being transmitted) . Selecting signal lock would not help. I tried a firmware upgrade to no avail, and Optoma basically told me that there must be something wrong with my components (which have worked fine with 5 other projectors) that was causing this.

I really was looking hard at the H77 a while back but was afraid this same issue would crop up, and it looks like it has.

Hopefully Optoma spends a little more time finding a fix for the 77 than they did with the H76.
Rick

Originally posted by Craig Peer
Stop that Tom! My home theater remodel is 8 weeks away and I want one of these H77's now!

heh heh, drooling are ya, those last shots came out nice. :) But you know the H77 looks even better in person.

Tom, you have any problem locking on a signal like RickE? On my HT1000, I just press component or DVI on the remote and the pj locks right on. Same type of menu on the H77?

Tom, the latest pics are nice (mad, mad pics are my favorite though :p). What mode was the lamp in? Got any more HD pics :D

Never had any problem. I do choose signal lock which cuts down the search. I've thrown a ton of different signals at it with no prob. On the component feed I run a Pany XP30, A comcast HD box, A Sony HD100 for OTA, DVI w/bravo D1, S-video also for a Replay TV, S-video Player, or DVD recorder.

Never a problem, this is the first user to have a problem where his devices wouldn't get recognized.

It was set to bright mode. The only thing I did different is set the camera to night which gives a 2sec aperture delay. I really think they look excellent and show a good likeness for what you see live.

Tom, are you using some sort of switcher? I count 3 component devices.

Originally posted by Craig Peer
Tom, you have any problem locking on a signal like RickE? On my HT1000, I just press component or DVI on the remote and the pj locks right on. Same type of menu on the H77? Craig: I have had 2 H77's in hand. Both exhibited identical behavior with locking issues. I also have mine set to not auto seek the whole gambit of supported signals because... both units take a long time to sync. Long by my perception. From a 1080i to a 480p signal via same component cable (HD to non-hd via Cable STB, or from component to 720p (via my DVI from BravoD2) the PJ will take as long as 45 secs to sync. Normal is about 30 seconds. Occasionally it will fail and I have to prod it to try again (maybe 1 out of 20 times). I am using the Vinc 30' DVI cable (which they recommended over all the others and my dealer tested against 3 other popular high end brands to be sure it was as good) and I'm using IXOS component, also about 30 feet. It could be better but it does sync, just takes it a while. Worst behavior is from component to dvi switch.

Cheers,
Scott

Originally posted by bbdmac
I recently purchased an H77 along with an iScan HD and am having problems when I switch the input of the iScan from my RCA DTC100 over to the DVD input. I've got the DTC100 connected using RGBHV cables and the the DVD player is currently using the RGB Component input 1 on the iScan. The H77 is set to Auto detect the input. When I'm running HDTV material using the DTC100, the iScan is in pass thru mode. When I change to the DVD Component input, I have the iScan set for the native resolution of the H77 (720p). Here's the problem. When I turn on the DVD player and change the iScan input over to Component 1, the projector never locks on a signal from the iScan. It searches through all of the inputs and never locks on any of them. In some cases, the H77 freezes and the only way I can get it out of this freeze mode is to remove power to it. I hate to do this because the lamp never gets the opportunity to cool down. Nothing I do via the H77 remote will get it out of this freeze mode.

Does anyone have any suggestions regarding whether or not this is an H77 problem or an iScan output problem? At this point I'm considering returning the iScan HD and sticking with my older iScan Pro.

I'm about to change the DVD player over to my Samsung HD931 and then I'll be running DVI cables from the iScan to the H77, but for now I'd like to understand why I have this problem.

Thanks.

bbdmac

Why don't you input your DVD player into the iSCAN HD? If you do this, then the output from the the iSCAN HD will not change (Analog). The H77 will auto detect the colorspace. You have more options to configure aspect ratio, etc. if you use the iSCAN HD vs. the H77 component. I'm using my H77 connected to my iSCAN HD and really don't use the scaling features of the H77. Also, you need to make sure you don't have any hookup issues (RGB component) from your DVD player as this will also cause an issue. I'm using both DVI and RGBHV component connected from my iSCAN HD to my H77 and have not had a problem. I prefer the capabilities of the iSCAN HD over the H77 and am using the H77 in native mode only. SJ

Originally posted by Cilent1
Tom, are you using some sort of switcher? I count 3 component devices.

Yes I'm using a simple Radio Shack analog switch box 4 into 1. My cables are nothing special either. Simple 50ft component cable and a $60 30ft DVI cable.

How about those last pictures. I'm sure that's what other owners are seeing. A super bright image with awesome colors and 3D feel. I haven't seen another HD2+ to compare to this type of quality. Now if Optoma can just make enough to go around. :)

Is there an advantage to using component vs DVI from the HDTV box? What happens when a Std. Def image is sent out from one of these HD boxes over the DVI? What happens to the display image when you switch between HD and STD Def channels? (either cable or sat. I don't have ether yet)?

With the Comcast box I've found SD looks sharper via component. Comcast HD over DVI is great at 720p and the H77 set to 16.9native - which equals zero overscan and 1.1 pixel match. But the scaler does such an excellent job, that for better SD I use component.

Man I can't take it anymore. I'm sooo close to ordering the H77 and a HP screen from AVS. I was trying to hold out to compare w/ new Sharp 2k but I'm just gonna get the optoma and not look back! I have a couple questions on the details. Any thoughts of how far down the lens will be from ceiling with the different mounts? I dont really want flush b/c of HP screen but my ceiling is low so I dont need an extention pole either. Second, Should I run a 30' DVI to HDMI cable for future or stick w/ DVI-DVI cable? For component will a 30' RGB cable be ok?

Hi,

I have the chief mount and the lens is about 6" from the ceiling. I have 200+ hrs on the H77 and I love the picture.

I am running a 9meter Better Cables DVI and a 6 meter RGBHV breakout cable. A 30' RGB cable would be fine. I would run both.

Steve

Steve, with your mount can the TOP of the screen/image be any lower than the lense? I need to project the image low enough to clear the screen roller case. Thanks

tubby, must be those last pictures I posted that did you in. :)

The H77 is designed with the image hitting straight out to the top or bottom of a screen, ceiling mount vs table mount. You get an additional 6" with the lens shift if needed. There is allot of movement with the shift if you shelf mount toward the center of a screen, 100% movement.

If you ceiling mount which most do the HP screen will still be about a 1.5 gain which is plenty high. If you shelf mounted behind your head you'd get the full 2.8gain and the 100% lens shift.

Originally posted by SJHT
Why don't you input your DVD player into the iSCAN HD? If you do this, then the output from the the iSCAN HD will not change (Analog). The H77 will auto detect the colorspace. You have more options to configure aspect ratio, etc. if you use the iSCAN HD vs. the H77 component. I'm using my H77 connected to my iSCAN HD and really don't use the scaling features of the H77. Also, you need to make sure you don't have any hookup issues (RGB component) from your DVD player as this will also cause an issue. I'm using both DVI and RGBHV component connected from my iSCAN HD to my H77 and have not had a problem. I prefer the capabilities of the iSCAN HD over the H77 and am using the H77 in native mode only. SJ

This is exactly how I have the DVD player connected. This is why I'm wondering if the problem might be with the iScan HD and not the projector. I'll play with the processing and see if changing to something other than a 720P output from the iScan allows the projector to synch up. I also just received my DVI cable and will try the Samsung thru the iScan to see if that changes anything. If this doesn't work, I may just return the iScan and run the RCA DTC100 directly to the projector along with the DVI from the DVD player.

Does anyone think this problem is worth discussing with either Optoma or DVDO? It concerns me that someone else had a similar problem.....

Bob

Originally posted by tubby
Steve, with your mount can the TOP of the screen/image be any lower than the lens? I need to project the image low enough to clear the screen roller case. Thanks

Tubby,

The lens can align with the top of the screen but no higher without some (correctable) keystone problems.

For best image, lens should be at or below top of image and the lens optical shift is used to align vertically.

Tom

I did it!
Just got off the phone w/ Jason T, he sold me the H77 and chief mount (my first PJ!). Ya Tom I decided if those Star Wars pics looked that good on my computer its gotta be pretty awesome. I was gonna wait for the new sharp but after (not) hearing this projector I think its gonna be perfect overhead. Thanks too all for your help.

Congrats Jay, heckuva first PJ! (wish I had done it right the first time :rolleyes: ). Be sure to let us know how it goes. I am feverishly trying to finish modifying my room so I can get in line also. Although Tom's shots are making it hard to be very patient :D !

OT: Does anyone know what video levels the DVI input of the Optoma is geared toward. PC levels or Video levels. Plan to use a 4-1 DVI switcher and I'm worried about mismatched video levels from different DVI sources.

Regards,
Anthony

Hey guys,

my dealer offered me an option to change my 92" firehawk to the new greyhawk RS. Should I go for it???

My setup is H77 in the living room. I am most concerned about DVD PQ watching at night.

Is any of you guys using a greyhawk for your H77? For a 92" diag screen, which is better? Greyhawk RS or firehawk.

I'm using a 100" Firehawk with my H77. Initially was going to go with the
92" Greyhawk, until I saw a demonstration of the Firehawk. With anything
higher than 1.85 format you will get some unused screen top and bottom.
With the greyness of the Firehawk, you don't notice it at all. I think with the
Greyhawk, those bars would be noticable. Also, the price difference between
the 92" and the 100" is really not that much, since I was going to buy this
screen once, I opted for the 100". RIGHT decision! (and between us) I just
love answering the buds questions How big? 100" sounds so theater.
My main issue with this whole projector/screen decision process is; I don't
want to watch a movie and be distracted by thoughts of I wish I had gone
that other route. With my decision of the H77, Iscan HD processor and 100"
Firehawk it's all about the movie.

Originally posted by DHarp193
Sure Tom, I'll try to post some pix when I get the chance. It's basically the same thing as what's been shown w/ the PAL units in those U-571 pix with the light in the black background behind the guys head.

I can see it right now while watching MNF in HD on ABC. The players in the foreground look pretty good, but if the camera pans across the sidelines following say the head coach, the player's faces for instance, in the background break into a banded/contoured mess of flesh color. Similar to what you'd see if you set your PC to 8 bit color or something. They look like a water color cartoon:eek:

Here is a picture I took off of Discovery HD of the show "Big". It was when the camera was panning horizontally across the guy's face.

They say a FW upgrade might do it. I talked to Robert at Optoma and he says there's a c12 out there. I hope he's right. I've had two different units, both c08-NTSC, and they do the same thing. I can't imagine both have the same problem.

Are you sure you guys don't see what I'm talking about? Look at something like a football game. AS the camera pans across the sideline, don't look at the people in the foreground, look at the legs and faces of the people behind them. You should see the solid color legs(pants) and faces turn into a blob with outlines, like a picture or icon on your PC that has limited color depth. It happens once the pan reaches a certain speed across.

Let me know what you find.

Originally posted by tubby
I did it!
Just got off the phone w/ Jason T, he sold me the H77 and chief mount (my first PJ!). Ya Tom I decided if those Star Wars pics looked that good on my computer its gotta be pretty awesome. I was gonna wait for the new sharp but after (not) hearing this projector I think its gonna be perfect overhead. Thanks too all for your help.

Thats just great that you purchased from Jason. Yep quietest PJ available with every high end feature. Just think of how many long time viewers and ISF testers have said this is as good as it gets. You're in good hands. :)
enjoy

I see the smearing problem during panning too on my H77 with a 480p xbox source. But I think it can be fixed with a scalar. I just think that the H77 need 720P input to really shine. Most of the HAPPY H77 users have either an ISCAN or similar or a good DVD player like denon 3910 which can upscale to 720P.

Alantkh,

I am using the H77 in native mode with a 720P source. As a matter of fact, I have tried just about every resolution possible with the same results. It also doesn't matter whether I use DVI or component, in case you're wondering that too;). As you can see by my signature below, I do this as a business, so I know what to look for. My previous projector to this one was a Sony G90 CRT with the same source components and I never saw this anomoly.

Hey Markeetaux,
Are you seeing any of this smearing stuff like DHarp? Is there a big diff using iScan HD? Just curious, if I already have a up converting DVI DVD player, what would be tha main reason for me to get the IScan for the H77?
P.S. How are things back there, I went to TS Wooton as a kid but I left in search of the pefect powder ski run over 20 yrs ago.

Naah I don't see smearing or contouring. I've been asked to look a Charlie's Angels chapter where Drew gets shot and falls out a window, lots of panning going on there, it looked fine. Asked about the u571 contour took this shot, nothing wrong here either.
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h77u571hr.jpg

Here's a picture of the banding on a unit playing PAL.
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/palcontour.jpg

I was told to look at Pirates of the Caribbean also, when Johnny Depp first comes into the port. They said to look at the people in a ship as he goes by. Theres panning and the actors looked blurry. Yes on this one they do look blurry, but they look blurry on my Phillips Tube HDTV.

So far so good. :) I got one of the first issues, its June and has C08.

Another thought, I hope we're not talking about the typical artifact DLP projectors may have. I remember Li-on chiming on early stating TI should educate the public on the dithering artifact.

This is the mits thread with the discussion last month.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=447048&perpage=20&highlight=mitsubishi%20HC2000&pagenumber=1

Now the contouring with the waves surrounding the light in the u571 shot, that's a problem for sure. But it was mainly PAL lands problem. If you have a USA machine and see this contour, post a picture I'd like to see it.