Originally posted by bpear1600
While I watched the football game last night I recorded Desperate Housewives on my 8300 HD.

Playing it back I noticed that one segment between commercials was in 4:3 while it had been in 16:9. After the next commercial it went back to 16:9.

If my memory is correct I think entire episodes have been in 4:3 and I have had the same thing happen with the show LOST.

What is the cause of this? I know it's not anything I am doing.

LOST should be in 16:9 all the time for every episode. However, it appears that our local ABC affiliate via TWC may be experimenting with sending non-HD shows as stretched on the HD channel. My guess is that they had people complain about the bars. In the past week, all of their SD shows that I have surfed by on the HD channel have been stretched. Nothing I can do at my end can get them back to 4:3, which is a shame because their stretch mode is much worse than mine.

bpear1600,

This is a common problem with commercial stations - they forget to switch back to the HD feed after a local commercial break. Complain to the station every time this happens. It is usually an issue with both OTA (over the air) and cable feeds. I've observed that after awhile they get the "hang" of this. But you need to complain to provide the feedback needed. Usually calling when the problem occurs doesn't work as no one is there to answer the phone. A "trick" that works at times is to call the news department. They are there, but might not appreciate being the conduit to the engineering dept (but then again, the news departments irritation with engineering problems might help resolve the problem).

Thanks guys. I've only had HD for four weeks and was not aware of this problem.

I connected a HDMI to DVI cable to my tv.
When I plug in the power to the 8300HD I can see the bootup messages on the tv then it goes blank. I have to switch to Component to view.
Does this mean that the HDMI is not active on my box?
I am in San Antonio, Tx.

If not, what do I do to make it stay on?

Originally posted by Jmiller29
I connected a HDMI to DVI cable to my tv.
When I plug in the power to the 8300HD I can see the bootup messages on the tv then it goes blank. I have to switch to Component to view.
Does this mean that the HDMI is not active on my box?
I am in San Antonio, Tx.

If not, what do I do to make it stay on?

I'm in Temple, not SA, but I think I read a previous post saying SA has DVI active, so I presume HDMI is, too. DVI is active here, and I get my HDMI/DVI cable tomorrow for my 8300. I'll see if I have the same issue, or not. Since both the HDMI/DVI, and the component connections should be active on the 8300, did you check the settings for the picture format? The one I was using with the 8000 on DVI was "Auto DVI" or a similar name, but on the 8000 it was automatically set on that if a DVI connection was made. (p.s. I don't think there are many readers who have the 8300 and HDMI/DVI, yet. Usually you'll get a reply sooner.)

The only Picture Options I am seeing are: Upconvert-1, Upconvert-2, Fixed, and Pass-Through.

Just for the heck of it, you might try disconnecting the Component cable from the 8300. Even though both ports seem to be active at the same time, unlike on the 8000HD, there could be a problem with your particular setup. If it doesn't help, you can always plug the cable back in. With an HDMI cable connected, you should get an Auto-HDMI option or something like that.

Originally posted by workingclassdog
I'm having this same issue with the 8300HD and a Panasonic TH-42PX25UP in Cablevision's area (central NJ).

About every other day, or any time the box is powered up after being shut off - the handshaking error occurs and my box locks me out til I do a reboot and wait for the handshake to happen correctly. After reboot it's about a min to min and a half to get my pic back :(

I hope Scientific Atlanta is working on a solution to this - very annoying issue.

WCD

Exact same problem here, also have a Panasonic HDTV -- 53WX53. Turning the HDTV off/on usually solves the issue, but then again this is probably bad for the TV.

Ihave the same issue, read on. When I originally had Cablevision install the 8300HD, everything was working fine. All outputs worked without any problems. This was working fine for about a week. Than one evening the STB went off and ever since I have been getting the DVI Alert pop up message. In order to get my HDMI/DVI connection to work, I have to turn on my Pioneer RPTV than turn on the STB. AT this point the HDMI is active. As soon as I turn the RPTV off the DVI Alert message comes back. My assumption is that CV probably did a software update and screwed something up because they are working on a fix for this issue. The annoying thing about this problem is that it affects all the other outputs (S-Video, composite, component & RF) and the only way out is to unplug the HDMI/DVI cable from the STB, power off/on and than I get video and sound. Hopefully, this isssue is resolved soon since it is quite anoying. Other than this peculiarity, this STB is great.

Billionaire didn't record again this week. I got home a half hour late, and had to force it to record again, so I will only get half the show. I can't believe that this box can't do something this simple :(

Did yours record it Dave?

Originally posted by Jmiller29
The only Picture Options I am seeing are: Upconvert-1, Upconvert-2, Fixed, and Pass-Through.

Got my cable today. Lots of issues with HDMI/DVI. I would say you likely do not have an active HDMI on your box in SA, because when I connect the cable, my "Pass-through" setting changes to "Auto DVI/HDMI". On all but HD channels, that works fine, but on HD channels I frequently get the message to switch to component. It shows for less than a second, screen goes black, and then the picture comes back. It occassionally does that many times per minute, and always loses the sound while it's at it. After a few minutes, the screen started flashing brighter, like a strobe light or something. Did that about every 2 to 4 seconds, and sometimes several times per second. The menu was much slower to come up than ususal, too.

On the recorded HDNET test pattern, I saw no quality difference between HDMI/DVI and component!!! Unlike the 8000HD DVI/DVI, there was no apparent brightness difference, either.

So, anyway, the HDMI is active in Temple, but certainly not ready for prime time - at least, not with my 34XBR800! I disconnected it, and am perfectly happy with component. I'll try the DVI again if I ever get a better DVD player.

Originally posted by Free
Billionaire didn't record again this week. I got home a half hour late, and had to force it to record again, so I will only get half the show. I can't believe that this box can't do something this simple :(

Did yours record it Dave? Yes, it did, but remember, I set it up last week using tonight's data from the IPG. I will have to wait another week to see if it doesn't record next Tuesday. If it doesn't, then there is something in the IPG that changes every other week. If it does, then there is something else going on with your box/setup and I have no idea what that could be. The big problem is the series will probably be over with before we figure it out. :(

Of course, it could be too that whatever is causing yours not to record has been changed and mine will continue to record every week since it is using the latest IPG data. If that is the case, I would wait until tomorrow and redo your scheduled recording for it using the new IPG for next Tuesday.

I know that sounds to simple and silly, but I've seen a lot of stange things happen when it comes to data and software coding. As frustrating all this is for you, I can't think of anything else to try at this point.

I have redone it every week. It doesn't record, I go into the guide, and select the show, it asks if I want to record all shows etc. and I accept the settings, and it appears to just overwrite the old program, or else it sees no change, so it keeps the old program. I think what I am going to do for next week (if this stupid show is still on) is to erase the old program completely before reprogramming it.

If I open the scheduled recordings, it shows that "The Rebel Billionaire" scheduled to record on 12/14, 12/21, and 12/28, but didn't record. The show I recorded tonight manually, shows as "The Rebel Billionaire" even though it showed in the guide as "Billionaire".

Does your recording have "The" or not??

The recording in the list says "The Rebel Billionaire:".

If you didn't cancel the scheduled recording before you selected the new one, it did not overwrite. Once a timeslot is set to be recorded, you cannot select that timeslot again even if the show you scheduled is replaced by something else. If you select it again, it will simply assume it is the same program because the slot is already tagged as REC. I found this out when I had House scheduled to record but it was preempted Thanksgiving week. Selecting the new program did absolutely nothing, though I believe a manual schedule did record that timeslot.

The billionaire saga...
Dave, Finally got my 8300HD... Now with both units (8000HD), I can make comparisons.
I erased all of the data on my 8000HD and set Billionaire to record: ALL Episodes "IN THIS TIME SLOT". The recording did work where it hasn't the last few weeks with other settings.
I set the 8300HD to record: ALL Episodes "At Any Time On This Channel", which is what I previously had the failed 8000 doing, and it also failed on this box, just like the 8000 did.
My prognosis is that there is definitely something wrong with the guide data for Billionaire and the way the 8000/8300 DVR's interpret that information. Both "New Episodes" and "All Episodes on This Channel" failed. Only a specific recording for a specific time-slot recorded correctly. This is the only show noted with this problem. All of my other recordings, including canceled recordings of "First Run Only" episodes are working correctly.

vegggas

You are both right. I seem to remember, when I first set the recording, I selected all time slots. When I re-did the recording, without deleting it, I selected only this time slot. So, it does confirm that it did not overwrite it.

I will delete the schedule and re-program it for only this time slot next week.

Originally posted by semuta
MarketingProf, that's really disappointing news. What good is a HD-DVR if it's full of pixelation. Has anybody contacted SciAtl about this?

When I first got my box I did not have any pixilation, but overtime my pixelation has become worse. I have had my box for maybe 5 months. I was thinking that maybe the disk was getting too fragmented.

I try to average 70% full, but have have dropped down to 40% to clean things up.

Unfortunately, my recorder has skipped recording new shows because the disk was too full even though I use "Auto Erase" it seems like it does not always work.

Does anyone else use "Auto Erase"? Have you seen problems not erasing when a disk is full and skipping a new show??

-jim

I use auto erase, but if I see the disk getting full I move non HD shows to VCR. The most I can remember seeing is 75%.

I just ran into the pixilation issue today when watching something that was recorded last night. I checked my disk space and it was 78% full. Never noticed it before, but I normally don't keep more than 30% of my disk full at any given time.

Originally posted by jjsaustin
Unfortunately, my recorder has skipped recording new shows because the disk was too full even though I use "Auto Erase" it seems like it does not always work.

Does anyone else use "Auto Erase"? Have you seen problems not erasing when a disk is full and skipping a new show??

-jim

Not sure if you are aware of this -
If you have the default (or individual recordings) set to "until I erase", then "Auto Erase" will not erase those shows. I set all my recordings, by default, to "until I erase", so it does me no good to set the "Auto erase" setting.

Originally posted by jjsaustin
Unfortunately, my recorder has skipped recording new shows because the disk was too full even though I use "Auto Erase" it seems like it does not always work.

Does anyone else use "Auto Erase"? Have you seen problems not erasing when a disk is full and skipping a new show??

-jim

Not sure if you are aware of this -
If you have the default (or individual recordings) set to "until I erase", then "Auto Erase" will not erase those shows. I set all my recordings, by default, to "until I erase", so it does me no good to set the "Auto erase" setting.

Originally posted by CWS
Not sure if you are aware of this -
If you have the default (or individual recordings) set to "until I erase", then "Auto Erase" will not erase those shows. I set all my recordings, by default, to "until I erase", so it does me no good to set the "Auto erase" setting.

My recordings are set to "Save 1 Episode". The thought is that at most there would be 1 copy of a given show and erase shows as needed to make room for new ones. maybe I have a bad unit,

Originally posted by jjsaustin
My recordings are set to "Save 1 Episode". The thought is that at most there would be 1 copy of a given show and erase shows as needed to make room for new ones. maybe I have a bad unit,

The "preferences" options to which I refer are:
1 day
2 days
7 days
14 days
until I erase

What you are thinking of is how many episodes to record - set at the time you schedule a recording.
Use the blue B button, when looking at the recorded list, to get to "preferences" for setting how long to keep them.

Originally posted by vegggas
The billionaire saga...
Dave, Finally got my 8300HD... Now with both units (8000HD), I can make comparisons.
I erased all of the data on my 8000HD and set Billionaire to record: ALL Episodes "IN THIS TIME SLOT". The recording did work where it hasn't the last few weeks with other settings.
I set the 8300HD to record: ALL Episodes "At Any Time On This Channel", which is what I previously had the failed 8000 doing, and it also failed on this box, just like the 8000 did.
My prognosis is that there is definitely something wrong with the guide data for Billionaire and the way the 8000/8300 DVR's interpret that information. Both "New Episodes" and "All Episodes on This Channel" failed. Only a specific recording for a specific time-slot recorded correctly. This is the only show noted with this problem. All of my other recordings, including canceled recordings of "First Run Only" episodes are working correctly.

vegggas I trust you will like the 8300.

That is sure wierd on Billionaire, but I'm glad you were able to pinpoint a possible cause. I would never have thought of that because all my other recordings, with either option, record just fine. I see Free has reset his schedule and I'm confident it will get recorded next week. Interesting problem to say the least.

Let me know your thoughts on the 8300.

Just for the record I finally tried the "record to VCR" function last night on my 8300HD. It worked fine. My VCR is older and doesn't have s-video so I just used composite. THe quality is what you'd expect from VHS. I dumped an HDNet live concert of Alison Krauss and it converted it fine. It's kind of nice that it does all of the recording in the background and you don't even notice it. You can go on with your standard routine of TV watching.

I'm thinking about getting one of those Ilo or Balance DVD recorders from Wally world and dumping to DVD instead of VHS.

Originally posted by coomarlin
I'm thinking about getting one of those Ilo or Balance DVD recorders from Wally world and dumping to DVD instead of VHS. If you do, let us know how it works out.

I've tried a LiteOn LVW-5005 (CompUSA) with my SA8300HD via S-Video and it works fine. I've also recorded from HBO On-Demand but through a video stabilizer with good results. I'm not sure if it would work on On-Demand without the stabilizer.

My new 8300 messed up for the first time, tonight. I was watching a movie, put it on fast forward, and it froze up. Had to reboot. After the reboot, the recording I was watching was gone from the list! Bummer.

Was also recording at the time, and it did the recording in two parts - 8 mins before the reboot, and then the rest after the reboot. (Glad it was smart enough to do that, since I forgot I had a scheduled recording.)

I read someone else had one or more freeze-ups. Is everyone with an 8300 having this happen?

I must be blessed. Never had a lock-up of the 8300. And it's usually recording 2-4 hours of HD every night, often two channels at once. Not that I would ever confuse it for a Replay/Tivo.

*touch wood*

My 8300 has never locked up on me either. Can't say that about the 8000, when it happened I'd say weekly.

Originally posted by CWS
My new 8300 messed up for the first time, tonight. I was watching a movie, put it on fast forward, and it froze up. Had to reboot.
Is everyone with an 8300 having this happen? I have had this happen to me several times. It has done it when rewinding, too.

As I recall, some of the people on our local RochesterHDTV Forum had this problem with an earlier version of SARA. (might have been 1.85.14.1) that went away with an upgrade. We are at 1.85.17.3 now and no longer have the problem.

Originally posted by davehancock
... We are at 1.85.17.3 now and no longer have the problem.

There's hope, then! I'm at 1.85.8.4, so maybe a fix is coming. Thanks.

New yesterday...

Several times, seemingly at random, a pay per view screen will pop up indicating that the PPV event is no longer available. Now here's the twist. It does this on any channel I happen to be watching at that time. I have to change channels to get rid of it.

?????

Originally posted by MarketingProf
New yesterday...

Several times, seemingly at random, a pay per view screen will pop up indicating that the PPV event is no longer available. Now here's the twist. It does this on any channel I happen to be watching at that time. I have to change channels to get rid of it.

?????

Dang! Next thing ya know, you'll have to enter your credit card number to watch anything! ;)

Originally posted by davehancock
As I recall, some of the people on our local RochesterHDTV Forum had this problem with an earlier version of SARA. (might have been 1.85.14.1) that went away with an upgrade. We are at 1.85.17.3 now and no longer have the problem.

Dave, I can no longer login to rochesterhdtv after the hack attempt, I get the following error:

"Parse error: parse error, unexpected T_VARIABLE in /home/rochesterhdtv.com/html/login.php on line 84"

Could you please let jonw know, or post this in the Site issues forum over there? Thanks.

Free,

As I expected, Billionaire is NOT recording tonight. If you remember, I set it up 2 weeks ago and it recorded last week. Since you were having problems every other week, I suspected I would have problems on the opposite weeks and, sure enough, I am. Unfortunately, there is not enough info in the scheduler or the IPG that I can see to know exactly what is happening. I am going to keep it scheduled to see if it records next week. Did you change it to all episodes, all timeslots?

Mine recorded tonight :)

When I set up the recording, I followed vegggas suggestion to record all episodes in this time slot.

I will leave it like this, and see if it records next week. I am not as worried now, because I have the Fox national feed on my HD Tivo, so it will record a back up copy :)

What's the latest word on pixelation? Still seeing quite a bit of this in recordings, but I cancelled my tech visit due to comments in here about lots of people having the same problem.

Also, anybody using an external SATA drive? If so, what make/model? Do you need a special adapter?

I saw brief pixelation on all the recordings I have so far. Never saw such pixelation during live video.

I've had my SA8300HD DVR for less than 36 hours. As of this afternoon it was working perfectly, although this evening it has begun misbehaving. It will work for roughly 10 seconds, then the box will display the message "Er.40" and will lock up. I was wondering if anybody knew what the system error codes meant so I could begin to troubleshoot (or return box -- TW technical support said they didn't know and don't have any in stock to swap for a good one). Thanks!

Originally posted by DBFullert
I've had my SA8300HD DVR for less than 36 hours. As of this afternoon it was working perfectly, although this evening it has begun misbehaving. It will work for roughly 10 seconds, then the box will display the message "Er.40" and will lock up. I was wondering if anybody knew what the system error codes meant so I could begin to troubleshoot (or return box -- TW technical support said they didn't know and don't have any in stock to swap for a good one). Thanks!

No question, this box has problems. Call your cable company and get a new one.

Originally posted by davehancock
As I recall, some of the people on our local RochesterHDTV Forum had this problem with an earlier version of SARA. (might have been 1.85.14.1) that went away with an upgrade. We are at 1.85.17.3 now and no longer have the problem.

Albany NY TWC now has SARA version 1.85.17.3.

And, HD PPV appeared on channel 1800. More about this here (http://albanyhdtv.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=Lineup&action=display&num=1104373727).

Currently, the only offering is Africa (IMAX) HD for $4.95. Rated G, 42 min. runtime.

Anyone know if the 8300 has an internal test pattern, like HDnet has at 7:00. I am switching to cablevision and they dont offer HDnet yet. Would like to calibrate some how.

Originally posted by bent98
Anyone know if the 8300 has an internal test pattern, like HDnet has at 7:00. I am switching to cablevision and they dont offer HDnet yet. Would like to calibrate some how.

No there is no internal test pattern, however you can calibrate it pretty close by getting purchasing a copy of Digital Video Essentials. It will run between 15-20 bucks on Ebay. I used it initially to calibrate my HDTV and then used HDnet and there really wasn't too much difference. Some of the alignment on my set was changed when I used HDnet's patterns but the color and black areas remained the same.

Anyone notice the sound skipping out on dark screens, like the credits? I had that problem at one time with the SA8000HD, but I thought it had been fixed - maybe not. I just saw it again on the 8300 at the end credits of "Monster", that I had recorded. Bummer :(

I am assuming you mean cailbrate TV with DVD player.

Originally posted by CWS
Anyone notice the sound skipping out on dark screens, like the credits? I had that problem at one time with the SA8000HD, but I thought it had been fixed - maybe not. I just saw it again on the 8300 at the end credits of "Monster", that I had recorded. Bummer :(

I'll bet that wasn't your 8300, but probably the broadcast itself. It was happening to me last night while I was watching "Lost" for about 25 minutes of the show. I could see as they started to fix it they switched to 480i then back to 720p.

Originally posted by bent98
I am assuming you mean cailbrate TV with DVD player.

Yes. Many people have done this. I found out about it on these boards.

Originally posted by hookbill
I'll bet that wasn't your 8300, but probably the broadcast itself. It was happening to me last night while I was watching "Lost" for about 25 minutes of the show. I could see as they started to fix it they switched to 480i then back to 720p.
Possibly so, but the whole movie was fine until the credits. I'll try to find another one with dark credits to test the theory.

Time Warner Orders DVR ‘Sidecars’

Regarding external hard drives for extra storage capicity.

new thread at: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=491661

NOTE: The moderator merged my thread with another, so I updated the link.

I confirmed this with the SA reps at CES today. They said that two manufacturers would be making announcments today.

vegggas

Originally posted by vegggas
I confirmed this with the SA reps at CES today. They said that two manufacturers would be making announcments today.

vegggas And just where is Cox in all this?

Who knows at this point. I was told the SATA interface is open here in Vegas, and if I could find a compatible drive, it should work. Now that I know, I may be heading to FRY's to pick one up to start testing. I still have a few more days at CES first... I will be posting another SA thread about all their new units coming soon in the recorders section.

vegggas

edit: Scientific Atlanta's new stuff at CES (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4939206#post4939206)

v

Cool, I look forward to the new thread. I'll bet you're having a good time at CES, as always.

Was that thread pullled or something? Just tried to go there and it wouldn't let me access it.

Scientific Atlanta's new stuff at CES (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4939206#post4939206)

Still there!

vegggas

Originally posted by vegggas
Who knows at this point. I was told the SATA interface is open here in Vegas, and if I could find a compatible drive, it should work. Now that I know, I may be heading to FRY's to pick one up to start testing. I still have a few more days at CES first... I will be posting another SA thread about all their new units coming soon in the recorders section.

vegggas

edit: Scientific Atlanta's new stuff at CES (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4939206#post4939206)

v

Finding a compatible drive is easy, finding the special SATA 2 - SATA 1 cable is another story. I can't find the link, but there was someone here that was special ordering one to see if it works. I don't remember seeing a followup with results.

I have had the drive and external enclosure for three months, but have yet to find a cable.

Let us know how it turns out for you.

I have determined than not just any SATA drive will work. The drives mentioned are optomized for video streaming and working with the PowerTV software. The drives are NOT PC COMPATIBLE (I Know, not Legally Compatible, but it could probably be reformatted etc.). Both Maxtor and Seagate are selling these directly to cable companies first, then probably a USB version directly to consumers for other STB's.
The QuickView Expander drive will eventually be sold in retail, although Maxtor has not set a date for a retail launch and has not determined an estimated retail price.

From http://www4.maxtor.com/en/products/ata/consumer_electronics/forms/quickview_info_req.cfm
The new QuickView Expander drive leverages the core technology of Maxtor QuickView consumer electronics (CE) hard drives, which power a high share of today's DVRs worldwide. Different than a standard PC hard drive, Maxtor QuickView CE drives are designed for streaming media applications and offer exceptional performance and advanced features that enhance the digital entertainment experience.

The Serial SATA2 Spec also calls for sustained 3.0Gbps transfer rate from the drive surface and sustained 300Mbps transfer. The SATA2 speck goes down to the block transfer and will require SATA2 to SATA2 compatibilty to do this. Using a SATA1 device will not work to meet SATA2 standards, but SATA2 devices are compatible with older SATA devices. You could compare it to USB 1.1 vs USB 2.0. A USB 1.1 device will never meet the USB 2.0 spec and transfer rate.

vegggas

Originally posted by vegggas

The Serial SATA2 Spec also calls for sustained 3.0Gbps transfer rate from the drive surface.

vegggas [/B]

Maximum theoretical transfer of SATA 2.0. No drive is getting even close to 3Gbps, let alone SATA 1's 1.5Gbps.

I don't see why a standard SATA drive won't work in the Maxtor enclosure, given it uses a standard Maxtor SATA 1.0 drive in the 8300HD. Of course no telling what kind of protections they've put in place.

Anyone know if this unit can simultaniously output signals from both HDMI and from composite?

I am thinking about getting a DVD Recorder and would like to capture shows in real time as I watch them. I've got my HDMI running to my TV and plan on using the svideo output on my 8300 to go to the DVD recorder and then from the DVD recorder I'd go back into a composite jack on my TV. I know I can do this with the record to VCR function, but it live output come out of both HDMI and composite at the same time?

Yes, I am able to record from s video on my Tivo and watch H D through H DMI

I think I understand that software distribution for the 8300 is from the cable company, not SA. The version of SARA I have is 1.85.14.2. I have had this version since I installed my SA 8300 about two months ago.

My question is, who has the latest version of this software and what kind of changes can I expect to see? That is assuming my cable company will eventually update.

We've got 1.85.17.3 in Rochester, NY and I have seen reports of 1.86.11.1 in CT & NJ and 1.87.4.4 in Houston (Time Warner). As I personally did not have an earlier version (only recently switched from a 8000HD) I can't comment on differences between what you have and what I have.

I believe that the 1.87 versions support Multi-Room functionality.

All current versions have a problem effortlessly viewing a program currently being recorded. We all anxiously await a fix for this.

Originally posted by davehancock
All current versions have a problem effortlessly viewing a program currently being recorded. We all anxiously await a fix for this.

Yes, it was being discussed in the 8300/SARA/Cox thread. They had some interesting alternatives to solving this problem. If your interested, look here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4973254#post4973254

I was just told my my Local Adelphia programmer that the boxes would get some new coding within the next 2 weeks that would fix the lack of "Audio: Digital Out" in the general settings and would fix numerous other issues. He didn't go into detail what those issues were but I'm hoping it may fix the kick-to-live bug.

I'm just not too sure that this is really a bug. I think it's the way the box is designed. I could be wrong, and I hope I am but are we just assuming this is a bug?

Originally posted by hookbill
I'm just not too sure that this is really a bug. I think it's the way the box is designed. I could be wrong, and I hope I am but are we just assuming this is a bug?

Are you talking about the lack of digital out option or the kick to live? I don't know if I technically should have called it a bug, but it's obvisouly something that 99.9999% of people would rather have fixed.

Originally posted by coomarlin
Are you talking about the lack of digital out option or the kick to live? I don't know if I technically should have called it a bug, but it's obvisouly something that 99.9999% of people would rather have fixed.

I'm talking about the kick to live. Or even the playback not starting from the start during a recording.

IMHO, it's the old VCR mentality where you record something and watch it later. I'm really surprised this issue didn't come up in beta testing, but then we ll seem to be the beta testers for S-A these days. :)

Does anybody use a HDMI-to-HDMI cable to connect the SA8300HD DVR to a Samsung HLP5674W? Does it work flawlessly? What cable brand do you use?

Originally posted by rothsss
Does anybody use a HDMI-to-HDMI cable to connect the SA8300HD DVR to a Samsung HLP5674W? Does it work flawlessly? What cable brand do you use?

You probably are going to have a tough time getting an answer to your specific question, but since you mentioned cable BRANDS I'll be happy to tell you that you don't need to spend 120.00 on "Monster" cables.

You can get one on ebay for about 20 bucks.

...but since you mentioned cable BRANDS I'll be happy to tell you that you don't need to spend 120.00 on "Monster" cables.

You can get one on ebay for about 20 bucks. [/B]

I wouldn't go eBay, I would HIGHLY recommend Pacific Cable where I got mine. Great prices and fast shipping.

http://www.pacificcable.com/HDMI_Cables.html

hookbill,

Thanks for the advise on the HDMI cable. I looked at ebay. Will I take a big chance buying a no-name cable? I need a 6ft cable.

Getting a monster cable as a reference is a good idea. I like to save money, but it is even more important to me to stay out of trouble. I was searching the forum for pacific cable and found problem reports.

If you are willing to pay $120 on a monster cable then go ahead, but to me that is rediculous. If it were an analog cable I might agree, but I don't think there is too much difference in most digital cables. I've been buying cables from Monoprice for a long time and they've all worked perfectly. I bought a 6 foot HDMI cable from them and it works great. I can't imagine spending $120 on a cable when you don't have to. Worse comes to worse you buy the $20 cable and if it gives you problems go buy the expensive monster cable. Obviously if you can afford a $120 cable you can afford taking a small risk on a $20 cable.

http://www.monoprices.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10209&cs_id=1020903&p_id=1912&seq=1&format=2&style=

According to the Wall Street Journal this is why stores are starting to change their return policies.

The fact that CC has such a liberal return policy no doubt helps them with market share. People are more likely to buy a product when they know they aren't going to be saddled with nutjob restock fees etc.

Originally posted by rothsss
Getting a monster cable as a reference is a good idea. I like to save money, but it is even more important to me to stay out of trouble. I was searching the forum for pacific cable and found problem reports.

At least in digital cables (that's what we are dealing with here) there is no such thing as a "reference" cable.

I've seen lots of reports on the Internet on Pacific cable products - all of them good (unless people had purchased the wrong cable - which is easy to do with DVI cables). I've been using their cables for a couple of years now.

Also check out the following on the "Monster" brand. Do you really want to support that?

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~33~2611825,00.html

I don't see the problem, if the monster cable provided a better picture then he would have kept it.
He is simply returning an overpriced product after finding one cheaper.
I always return products if they don't live up to my expectations.

He knows exactly what he is doing beforehand. He might as well give up trying to justfy it being so far from the moral high ground here.

I was looking over the Scientific Atlanta specs on this thing and I saw that it's only HDMI 1.0 compliant. 1.0 can only pass 2 channel audio. To carry DD 5.1, you need the HDMI 1.1 spec.

I did a bit of a search in this thread and I'm not aware of anyone receiving DD 5.1 or any multichannel audio with this thing over HDMI.

Any results to the contrary? Any planned firmware upgrades to HDMI 1.1?

Are the digital audio ports enabled if HDMI is in use?

Regards,
JnC

Originally posted by JnC
I was looking over the Scientific Atlanta specs on this thing and I saw that it's only HDMI 1.0 compliant. 1.0 can only pass 2 channel audio. To carry DD 5.1, you need the HDMI 1.1 spec.

I did a bit of a search in this thread and I'm not aware of anyone receiving DD 5.1 or any multichannel audio with this thing over HDMI.

Any results to the contrary? Any planned firmware upgrades to HDMI 1.1?

Are the digital audio ports enabled if HDMI is in use?

Regards,
JnC

I get my digital audio through the digital audio port, not the HDMI. My set is not capable of 5.1 audio, however my home theater is.

I have no idea about plans for upgrades in the firmware.

Originally posted by hookbill
I get my digital audio through the digital audio port, not the HDMI. My set is not capable of 5.1 audio, however my home theater is. I think most of us do it that way. I've heard of some TVs that will accept and pass 5.1 audio via HDMI, but I don't know of any that can actually play 5.1 audio themselves (with external speakers and a sub), do you?

Originally posted by coomarlin
If you are willing to pay $120 on a monster cable then go ahead, but to me that is ridiculous. If it were an analog cable I might agree, but I don't think there is too much difference in most digital cables. I've been buying cables from Monoprice for a long time and they've all worked perfectly. I bought a 6 foot HDMI cable from them and it works great. I can't imagine spending $120 on a cable when you don't have to. Worse comes to worse you buy the $20 cable and if it gives you problems go buy the expensive monster cable. Obviously if you can afford a $120 cable you can afford taking a small risk on a $20 cable.

http://www.monoprices.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10209&cs_id=1020903&p_id=1912&seq=1&format=2&style=

Thanks for mentioning Monoprice. I just ordered. $15.77 incl. shipping. Couldn't resist.

Originally posted by hookbill
We had a new person ask a question about cables. I advised him not to buy the monster cables. I mentioned ebay some others mentioned other places.

He said he wanted to know if he would be loosing any quality by purchasing cheaper cables. I told him no, but if he wanted to find out for himself here is how.

Nobody was "PUSHING THIS CONCEPT". If you thought that, then you took it out of context.

And again, I don't feel guilty, I've done nothing wrong, it's their store policy.

Sorry about the attacks. Your post was very helpful to me.

Originally posted by hookbill
I get my digital audio through the digital audio port, not the HDMI. My set is not capable of 5.1 audio, however my home theater is

Sorry, my intent is not to pass DD 5.1 audio to the TV, but to the receiver. :rolleyes:

I want to use HDMI to go to a Panny XR70 receiver, then feed the video to the TV through the Panny. Run one cable for audio and video as intended.

Yes, I could use the digital audio port as a fallback, but I'd like to take advantage of the HDMI if I can. The problem I see with the SA8300's HDMI 1.0 spec is this would neuter the audio to 2 channel. If so, it seems like they wasted the implementation.

Regards,
JnC

Will I be able to move my SA 8300 HD which has been used on a TWC system, to another nearby town which also uses TWC?

Thanks,
merc

merc,
If they pull up the account which has the recorder leased to you and clear it I'd say you're OK, but it would have to be the same 'system'.

TerryB

Terry,

This unit is not leased... it will be owned by me.
But yes, it is within the same system.
I am just tired of TWC telling me they are sending me a beta unit and then not doing so... so, I bought a unit to use.....

Hell, I am already paying TWC more than $125 a month, so I figured that they and my wife, won't miss another ten bills each month. :)

Originally posted by JnC
Sorry, my intent is not to pass DD 5.1 audio to the TV, but to the receiver. :rolleyes:

I want to use HDMI to go to a Panny XR70 receiver, then feed the video to the TV through the Panny. Run one cable for audio and video as intended.

Yes, I could use the digital audio port as a fallback, but I'd like to take advantage of the HDMI if I can. The problem I see with the SA8300's HDMI 1.0 spec is this would neuter the audio to 2 channel. If so, it seems like they wasted the implementation.

Regards,
JnC

Are you saying that your Panny receiver has both HDMI Input and HDMI Output? Check the general settings in your 8300. Some units have a setting called "Audio: Digital Out". If yours does make sure you select HDMI. Without the "Audio: Digital Out" option in your general settings menu you are going to be out of luck.

I'm not sure about certain HDMI specs that you are talking about but I do know for sure that the 8300 defaults to 2 channel stereo unless you use the manual override feature in the general settings menu. If you are like me and my Adelphia box you don't have that option. But from what I've heard most other cable companies have the option available to them.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by davehancock
I've tried a LiteOn LVW-5005 (CompUSA) with my SA8300HD via S-Video and it works fine. I've also recorded from HBO On-Demand but through a video stabilizer with good results. I'm not sure if it would work on On-Demand without the stabilizer. [/QUote

Did your record an HD Movie and was it broadcast in 16x9 ratio? Did the recorded DVD come out in letterbox and did you have to expand top and bottom to fit onto a 16X9 screen?

Hello, I have a 32 inch Sanyo HDTV and the SA 8300HD cable box. My cable service is Cablevision in NJ. I use the component hookups and they work just fine. I switched to a HDMI cable (Radioshack $100) and unplugged the component wires and RCA wires (the tv has HDMI). I changed the audio output on the cable box to HDMI and the input on the TV to HDMI and when I switch channels some of them have audio and some do not. Then if I go back to a channel that did it will not. It seems if I go to a HD channel I get the sound back. Also it seems to take a while between channels to the picture to show (it shows no signal for about 1-2 secs). Any idea why I am not getting sound and why the delay between channels for picture? By the way I ran the setup on the cable box with HDMI and all formats are accepted and chosen.

Thanks

martig,

I've recorded a PBS HD Program, but not HD Movies from HBO or Showtime. With the Lite-On the DVD came out in letterboxes and I had to use Zoom to fill the screen.

I've since junked (because it was) my LiteOn and went with a Sony GX300.

I note from the HDNet Test patterns that the 8300HD down convert circuitry does not pass as much resolution as SD would permit (300 lines is about it). Clearly the circuitry is scaled for VHS (not S-VHS) resolution.

So the bottom line is: Don't expect DVD quality from HD broadcasts recorded using "Copy to VCR".

Hey everyone!!

I'm going to be getting a new laptop soon and was wondering if I could dump my 8300 recordings to it via the "Copy to VCR" function. If so, what do I need to make sure is on the computer for this to work.

Is it as simple as having an S-Video input on the computer and video capture software?

Thanks in advance!

Originally posted by BustHDTV
Hey everyone!!

I'm going to be getting a new laptop soon and was wondering if I could dump my 8300 recordings to it via the "Copy to VCR" function. If so, what do I need to make sure is on the computer for this to work.

Is it as simple as having an S-Video input on the computer and video capture software?

Thanks in advance!

If your laptop has an svideo input then you should be able to do that. You'll also need to inpout the audio as well. There are links to capturing software at www.videohelp.com . Something like WinVCR should work fine.

Their is also a firewire port on the 8300 that apparently will be used to transfer video to either a DVHS or possibly the computer. But I think it's inactive right now. This would be the highest quality way to transfer video, but I don't know for sure if the port is active.

Thanks! I'm pretty sure the firewire port on my 8300 is inactive. I just wasn't sure if I was able to capture the video at all. I had read somewhere that you couldn't archive video off the 8300 because of some kind of encryption.

Oh well, I guess I'll find out...

;)

You can archive to VCR (and any similar device with the right software), but it will not be HD, it will be down-converted to 480i and may even be letterboxed. This generally makes it pretty useless for archiving IMO.

True.

Is it impossible to capture the HD content at all off the 8300?

Originally posted by BustHDTV
True.

Is it impossible to capture the HD content at all off the 8300?

The only way would be if the Firewire ports were active.

Originally posted by BustHDTV
True.

Is it impossible to capture the HD content at all off the 8300? The only way that you could do it would be to buy a W-VHS deck, which could record the analog component video output at HD resolution. They only record stereo sound and the equipment and media is not inexpensive. AFAIK, there is no way to archive the actual digital form of content recorded on one of these SA DVRs, period.

After 1 July of this year, FCC regulations require that all of the equipment that cable providers buy for lease have recordable 1394/DTCP connections (CFR Title 47, §76.640 (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=fb4f9fc970d5b78a68cd3ad129ed069e&rgn=div8&view=text&node=47:4.0.1.1.4.11.3.15&idno=47), paragraph (b)(4)(ii))--this would include DVRs. Of course, that's just all new equipment that they buy; they can still lease the old equipment that doesn't have it. Eventually, though, you should be able to get a DVR from your cable company with a digital output which can be recorded.

Be aware, however, that you won't be able to do it with a computer and a vanilla 1394 interface. The 1394 interface on these cable boxes is 1394/DTCP, where DTCP stands for "Digital Transmission Copy Protection" (aka "5C", short for the "5 Companies" that collaborated on it, Toshiba, Matsushita, Hitachi, Sony and Intel). This scheme allows the imposition of essentially five levels of copy protection on content carried over 1394. The four basic ones are Copy Never, No More Copies, Copy One Generation and Copy Freely. The first three of those are all encrypted; the sending device, or "source", generates the encryption key dynamically and will only reveal it to receiving devices, or "sinks", which can prove that they are licensed DTCP devices, by successfully completing an authentication process.

Copy Freely material is normally not encrypted. DTCP Descriptor MPEG extensions in the stream have a field called "Encryption Plus Non-assertion" or EPN. The state of the EPN field is relavant only to Copy Freely content--it is ignored for all other modes, which are encrypted in case. If EPN is asserted, Copy Freely content is to be encrypted during transmission and stored by recording sinks in a secure fashion. It can, however, be retransmitted in the same way without restriction (as EPN-Asserted-Copy-Freely content). The assertion of EPN essentially modifies "Copy Freely" into "Copy Freely Between Licensed DTCP Devices".

The new Broadcast Flag legislation requires the cable providers to set up their equipment such that it detects the presence of the Redistribution Control Discriptor (Broadcast Flag) in an over-the-air program's PSIP; if it's there, they have to asserted EPN in the content as they put in on their wire. When it works properly, this should cause it to emerge from the 1394 connections on the cable STBs in encrypted form.

Only basic-tier cable has any chance of being unencypted--any expanded cable or premium subscription cable that you subscribe to will be almost certainly marked Copy One Generation (because the law allows the cable providers to do it) and therefore encrypted by DTCP. Primetime commercial over-the-air broadcast programming is almost certainly all going to be marked with the Broadcast Flag, which will eventually make all of it emerge from cable STB 1394 connections in encrypted form.

There will probably be some unencrypted things, but they will be limited. Mark Cuban has sworn that HDNet will never be copy protected and I doubt that PBS will be using the Broadcast Flag.

Thanks for all the great info! That clears a lot of things up. FWIW, I'm really not interested in copying and distributing stuff that isn't allowed.

I assume that the "Copy One Generation" flag would allow me to dump the data onto the computer and then it is frozen there? I could watch it from there, but that's it?

AFAIK there is no DTCP compliant computer available, therefore you cannot use one to record a DTCP secured program. The reason being that a non-DTCP compliant computer would allow you to make unlimited copies.

Originally posted by BustHDTV
Thanks for all the great info! That clears a lot of things up. FWIW, I'm really not interested in copying and distributing stuff that isn't allowed.

I assume that the "Copy One Generation" flag would allow me to dump the data onto the computer and then it is frozen there? I could watch it from there, but that's it? I'm sorry--I didn't mean to imply that you were interested in illegal distribution. Just trying to inform you about what's up.

Copy One Generation copy protection will result in the stream being encrypted. That means that, though your computer could record it, it would have no way of turning it into "clear" MPEG that could be played back. It would have to have the decryption key, which is a long random number generated by the source (your cable STB) when it was turned on. The only way for your computer to get that key would be for it to successfully complete the authentication procedure. That would require that it have "credentials"--information to be presented to the content source which would prove to the source that it was a valid, licensed DTCP device. AFAIK, no PC software provisioned with such credentials has ever been sold to the public and I suspect that none ever will.

Licensed DTCP devices which record Copy One Generation content are required to store it in an approved secure fashion (encrypted); on playback, it will be DTCP-encrypted and marked No More Copies. No More Copies is indistinguishable from Copy Never, except that receipt of Copy Never requires a higher level of authentication, with a different set of credentials (recording devices might not be provisioned with credentials to receive Copy Never). The intent of Copy One Generation is to allow people to make a single copy to archive (if desired), but to prevent further copies from being made from that one.

LOL!

So I should just be happy that I can dump a 480i version to my computer and call it good? That's cool.

Has anyone ever noticed multiple recording of the same show? A couple of times I've noticed that for some reason the 8300 will take a single show and kind of chop it into three or 4 sections. It did this this week when I recorded House and while I was attempting to watch Point Pleasant while it was recording it did it again.

I get the full show. But it's in segments. Running SARA 1.85.17.3

Anyone else seen this?

Originally posted by hookbill
Has anyone ever noticed multiple recording of the same show?

I've not seen this ever, but mine still misses shows that were setup to record from now and then. Like last night I missed Will & Grace, as it just decided to skip it and it was a new episode.

The "chop into multiple segments" problem has been seen in Tampabay where BrightHouse uses the 8300HD DVR. It appears to be restricted to the digital Fox channel and seems to be a problem with Fox, or at least some interaction between the Fox signal and the DVR (some folks with non SA DVRs have reported problems with it as well).

On the Recordings list it will look something like this:

House 43 min
House 05 min
House 09 min
House 03 min

This has happened even before I was upgraded to my current software. Doesn't happen much but twice this week. Also I noticed both times it happened it was FOX. I don't recall what shows previously.

Originally posted by ranger999
The "chop into multiple segments" problem has been seen in Tampabay where BrightHouse uses the 8300HD DVR. It appears to be restricted to the digital Fox channel and seems to be a problem with Fox, or at least some interaction between the Fox signal and the DVR (some folks with non SA DVRs have reported problems with it as well).

Thanks ranger999. I kind of felt it might be a FOX issue. And the fact that it's happening in other DVR's confirms it. I appreciate the response.

Originally posted by hookbill
On the Recordings list it will look something like this:

House 43 min
House 05 min
House 09 min
House 03 min

This has happened even before I was upgraded to my current software. Doesn't happen much but twice this week. Also I noticed both times it happened it was FOX. I don't recall what shows previously.

My old 8000 would do that after it got the random reboot problem. What happens is that during the provess of recordinga show it reboots. When it reboots it starts recording again.

I've yet to see this, even on FOX, and I record House. I wonder if it could be related to the East feed or something? My guess is something in the signal is causing the 8300 to think the recording was stopped or the signal was lost, but just like after a reboot, it will start recording again as long as it's scheduled and still in the timeslot. Any correlation to commercials where they switch from HD to SD, etc.?

Originally posted by coomarlin
My old 8000 would do that after it got the random reboot problem. What happens is that during the provess of recordinga show it reboots. When it reboots it starts recording again.

In this case that is not possible. The recordings start within one minute of each show that stops. It takes more then a couple of minutes for reboot.

What makes this really interesting is I was actually watching the show last night as it was being recorded as each of these recordings took place (Point Pleasant). It happened earlier in the week on a recording of House.

None of the show was missed.

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
I've yet to see this, even on FOX, and I record House. I wonder if it could be related to the East feed or something? My guess is something in the signal is causing the 8300 to think the recording was stopped or the signal was lost, but just like after a reboot, it will start recording again as long as it's scheduled and still in the timeslot. Any correlation to commercials where they switch from HD to SD, etc.?

Well as a matter of fact there was one spot that was commercials. But as I recall the remainder of it was during odd times so I think the commecial think was just a good coincidence:)

Now if they can make it so it goes into separate recordings when a commercial came on, that might be a good thing!:)

I was wondering if Vegggas has heard anything about this.

I read most of this thread before contacting TW in KC to get this box. I started another thread yesterday as my box would not boot. Got a new one this afternoon and everything is great. I have a couple of things to share with you guys.
I read that quite a few people have had a hard time getting the HDMI?DVI to work with the H83 series Toshiba sets. Mine works fine. I bought an AR DVI/HDMI adaptor and it works flawlessly. When i first turn on the set it says" your set is not HDCP compliant YpYb... Yadda-Yadda, but then when i turn on the 8300 HD DVR's power all is well!
Also, no problems with passing DD audio through coaxial digital audio out. That works great as well.
I also read here that you lose pass through capability when using the HDMI hook up. Not me. I selected 480p and 1080i and those formats clearly change when switching from sd to HD on the front display. SD looks 5X better on this box than the 8000HD DVR that i had previously and i'll chalk that up to sending 480p to my set instead of 1080i(no pass through on my 8000). I know i could have hooked it up differently to get 480 for sd, but i have to keep it simple for wife and daughter to use as well. If anyone wants to know my software # post the directions and where to find it here and i'll look it up on the box and let you know.(sorry, to lazy to search to find the directions myself) but i'll be glad to do it if someone wants to know the software package that i have.

New 8300HD, Charter Cable, Fort Worth. SARA 1.85.20.3. Tried HDMI/DVI to Panny 6UY plasma, picture was great but too many issues. picture completely dropped a couple times, scrambled several times. Went back to just component, which is drop dead gorgeous anyhow.

Contrare to other opinions, I am not happy with upconvert in 8300, just like I was not happy with unconvert in 3250HD. So I have mine set on passthru. Had Plasma set to receive all formats, changed today - based on other threads - to try just 480i standard, along with 720/1080.

Don't get to watch much right now, and not into recording, but was having too many problems with 3250HD and old code. So they brought me the 8300 and I went from being 5-10 releases behind - to being caught up!

Copy One Generation copy protection will result in the stream being encrypted. That means that, though your computer could record it, it would have no way of turning it into "clear" MPEG that could be played back. It would have to have the decryption key, which is a long random number generated by the source (your cable STB) when it was turned on. The only way for your computer to get that key would be for it to successfully complete the authentication procedure. That would require that it have "credentials"--information to be presented to the content source which would prove to the source that it was a valid, licensed DTCP device. AFAIK, no PC software provisioned with such credentials has ever been sold to the public and I suspect that none ever will.

Mike, thanks for the great details!

Now, HP has announced an HD Media Center PC that will use a Cable Card. Will use of a Cable Card then allow the PC user to have control over the encrypted video stream for full playback flexibility, so that the PC user can have the freedom and power of a personalized DRV, rather than be limited to HD DRVs provided by Cable companies?

Best Regards, Pete

Originally posted by pweldon
Now, HP has announced an HD Media Center PC that will use a Cable Card. Will use of a Cable Card then allow the PC user to have control over the encrypted video stream for full playback flexibility, so that the PC user can have the freedom and power of a personalized DRV, rather than be limited to HD DRVs provided by Cable companies?Well, that depends upon what you mean by "power and freedom". CableCARD contains some very strictly licensed technologies to protect the conditional access content delivered through it. For an HTPC to be able to use CableCARD, it would have to have a method for protecting that content as it were stored on the PC. I would expect that it'd be protected using a DRM system that'd tether the stored content to the PC.

Are you talking about HP's announced "Media Hub" system as discussed in this (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/01/05/BUGK2AL3MV1.DTL) PR? If so, note that it doesn't seem to be a general-purpose desktop. It's built on Linux (like TiVo), and not Windows MCE. It doesn't sound as though it's designed to give any access to the operating system--it doesn't even have a keyboard.

I've seen indications that the next revision of Windows MCE will have support for CableCARD built into it, so they may be accessible as general purpose desktops. They'd still have to tether recorded Copy One Generation and Broadcast Flag'd video to the PC. If you had an HD DVD (or Blu-Ray) RW on such a system, the rules would permit it to archive a single, unreproducible copy of a Copy One Generation recording to it, after which it'd have to delete the copy on the DVR; it would be able to make unlimited hard copies of Broadcast Flag'd content, all of which could be reproduced between recorders through approved protected interfaces.

Mike,

Thank-you for sharing your obviously in-deapth understanding of the subject matter.

I trust the mavens of the media business read this forum. The content in this forum should demonstrate that the population of consumers of digital content who want to share it with others without paying a royalty is minuscule relative to the population of users who just want the flexibility to watch content they are paying for when and how they choose.

My current monthly cable bill with Internet service is now over $125 or $1,500 a year. Indeed, I pay for the content I view. As the TV advertising model dies in the face of digital reality I expect to pay more for the content I view. (I already do to the extent I watch pay-per-view cable content in lieu of NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, ESPN, etc.)

The content provider who provides me with the flexibility I want will get my business. I want an HD DVR with features of my choosing (not the cable company's). I want the ability to retain digital copies of the content I record only for my viewing. I want the ability to transfer digital copies to portable devices only for my personal viewing.

As with any well run business, those who listen to their customers profit thereby. Are you all listening?

Best Regards, Pete

Pete, the laws and protection mechanisms for digital television, which have taken years to hammer out, are designed to give you the flexibility that you seek. Most of subscription cable television can only be marked with a maximum of Copy One Generation protection; with the right equipment, you should be able to make a single copy to archive which itself cannot be copied. Given the fact that many of the popular films on premium subscription cable are shown multiple times each month (often mutliple times in a day), nothing will prevent you from making a recording of each showing on removable media and passing them out to your friend who don't subscribe. The fact that any such copies that you distribute can't be further copied and redistributed by whoever you gave them to prevents this possibility from being any great concern to the copyright holders. The only things that can be marked Copy Never are Pay-Per-View and Video-On-Demand programming.

Free-to-air digital television cannot be encrypted, either over the air or as retransmitted on a cable system in QAM. The Broadcast Flag legislation requires that demodulators (i.e., tuners) of these transmissions recognize the BF and protect it from being retransmitted over the Internet, without protecting it from being copied within home A/V networks. If the device containing the demodulator moves the BF'd content out of the device in digital form, it has to be over an approved digital connection in an approved secure fashion. The recipient, if it stores BF'd content, has to store it in an approved secure fashion, but it can send it out again in the same way that it got it (or some other approved, secure way), and another device could copy it without restriction.

Getting all of this stuff to work properly will take some time (just like everything else in this transition to digital television), but it will happen.

Mike, Thank-you.

This all looks reasonable and it sounds like the competing interests and the government have thought this through. Now they just have to make it all work.

My guess is that HP's HD Media Center PC will then take a Cable Card and allow recorded programs to be copied to Windows Portable Media Devices and other portable devices that support the content control flags. Fine with me. It is also important that this be an open system that would allow people like SnapStream, ReplayTV, TIVO and others innovate and compete. Right now, as far as HD recording goes, it seems like the cable companies, Rupert Murdock, and Bill Gates have all the marbles.

For now, I will just need to be happy I have an SA8300 HD Recorder. Which, by the way, is performing well. It does have some stability issues I am sure they will overcome. SA also needs to learn more about UIs from ReplayTV and TIVO.

Regards, Pete

Just today in our Rochester market (not sure if the 8300 got new software last night or not), but the box is coming up with an error saying "my HDTV doesn't support HDCP please use your component connections instead."

I've been using HDMI to the DVI in of my Sony KDE42XBR950 Plasma TV for almost 7 months now. Why am I seeing this and has anyone else seen this error or a way to fix it?

cdp1276,

I'm also in Rochester. I have an Infocus 4805 projector, and ever since I got my 8300, if the projector is off, or I turn to another input on the projector, and the HDDVR is on, it will give the same lockout message you're getting, and I have to unplug the HDMI/DVI cable to get it to work.

I've pretty much resigned myself to the fact that I will eventually just have to use component (which looked really good when I tried it) for the HDDVR, and either get a component switcher, or run the DVI into a dvd player (would have to get a different player, as my Zenith 318 also has HDCP issues with my 4805)

I find the whole HDCP thing very frustrating, and nobody ever has any answers to fix the problems.

Let me know how it goes for you,

Wes

cdp,

I checked the SARA version here - it's still 1.85.17.3 (since early December). I'm not using the HDMI connection now, so can't confirm it is still working OK (was in December). Earlier you had some advance software releases - I wonder if somehow they sent you (and a very few others) a newer release.

To Wes and CDP, I don't have the time to read through all the pages in this thread so if this has all ready been mentioned then i'm sorry. I occasionally get this same HDCP message as well. If you turn the set or projector on first and then the box it will happen alot less frequently. Also shutting down the box first and then the set or projector last will help also. This has something to do with the HDCP handshake between the two devices. Occasionally my set will give me this message from the box about the HDCP capability when i first turn on the set and the box isn't even turned on yet! Then when i turn on the box and channel up or down one channel all is well again and the message goes away. I have TW cable in KC,MO. My set is the 46H83 hooked up HDMI/DVI converter to DVI in on the set.

Thanks for the info to those that have also seen this error. Dave I still have 1.85.17.3 and I think it was just a fluke that I got the error this morning. In trying the TV/DVR tonight it is working fine. I usually always power the TV first then the box. I think this AM the box might have been first and that caused it. But the error appeared when I switched from an HD channel to an SD channel. Anyway who knows and at least this was the first time it happend in 7 months for me, because that is all I need is another problem with this box.

Originally posted by pittdog1
To Wes and CDP, I don't have the time to read through all the pages in this thread so if this has all ready been mentioned then i'm sorry. I occasionally get this same HDCP message as well. If you turn the set or projector on first and then the box it will happen alot less frequently. Also shutting down the box first and then the set or projector last will help also. This has something to do with the HDCP handshake between the two devices. Occasionally my set will give me this message from the box about the HDCP capability when i first turn on the set and the box isn't even turned on yet! Then when i turn on the box and channel up or down one channel all is well again and the message goes away. I have TW cable in KC,MO. My set is the 46H83 hooked up HDMI/DVI converter to DVI in on the set.

pittdog1,

Thanks for the info. That is what I try to do as well, but I also have a 27" TV hooked up to the box for the kids to watch cartoons, etc. The problem is that if the projector is off, the 8300 will put the error message up and lock the TV out, too. I need this system to be low maintenance for baby sitters, my wife, etc., so I'm going to switch over to component so I don't have to deal with HDCP.

Wes

How do you get into the diagnostic screens on the SA8300HD running SARA? Is there a screen listing the used and free filesystem space? If so, how do you get to it?

I've been logging DVR recording filesize data from an SA8000HD running Passport on my local TWC system; someone has volunteered to give me raw data from his recordings taken on the local Cox system as he deletes them--they run SARA one their boxes and we need to develop a procedure for this.

Mike,

My 8300 Manual which assumes SARA software says to turn off the 8300, turn on the TV, then press GUIDE and INFO buttons at the same time to display the internal settings data.

Now, I use BrightHouse (formerly TWC) in Orlando and they use the Passport software. Can you share the instructions for getting the the internal settings display for an 8300 using Passport?

Regards, Pete

NO, NO, NO!!!

pweldon,
That's the procedure for setting up the box.

To get diagnostic screens: With box ON, press & hold SELECT on box button till mail symbol shows. Then momentarily press INFO button - should now see screen 1 of (many) diagnostic screens. Use left & right cursor buttons to navigate to desired screen. Pres EXIT to exit.

Simple. This applies to SARA and I suspect all Scientific Atlanta boxes (at least the 8000 & 8300).

Originally posted by davehancock
NO, NO, NO!!!

Simple. This applies to SARA and I suspect all Scientific Atlanta boxes (at least the 8000 & 8300).

Nope, not all 8300's use SARA, some use Passport. I know North Carolina does.

hookbill,

When you say "Nope" what are you saying? That the procedure to get diagnostic screens that I gave applies to Passport also?.

My "NO, NO, NO!!" was in response to pwelden who was incorrectly quoting the SA8300 manual that assumed SARA. I was clearly stating that the procedure to get diagnostic screens (in response to Michaelscott) was for SARA.

Originally posted by davehancock
hookbill,

When you say "Nope" what are you saying? That the procedure to get diagnostic screens that I gave applies to Passport also?.

My "NO, NO, NO!!" was in response to pwelden who was incorrectly quoting the SA8300 manual that assumed SARA. I was clearly stating that the procedure to get diagnostic screens (in response to Michaelscott) was for SARA.

Sorry for the confusion. I was saying that SARA and Passport software was used in the 8300. Not that your procedure for getting to the diagnostic screen was incorrect. You said at the end of your post that you assumed all 8000 and 8300 used SARA.

hookbill,

Ah, I see your point. What I intended to say that I suspected that this procedure applied to SA3100s, SA3250s and other (SARA based) Scientific Atlanta boxes as well.

But what is the equivalent procedure for Passport boxes? I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same.

Originally posted by davehancock
But what is the equivalent procedure for Passport boxes? I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same. Pioneer's Passport IPG runs on all of the "current" SA digital cable boxes and DVRs and some Motorola boxes. The procedure for entering the diagnostic screens is NOT the same. In Passport, you hold down the SEL and EXIT keys on the box until the word "dIAG" appears in the LED display. After that, let go of the keys and briefly press EXIT again to view the diagnostic screens. If this is the first time you've done it, hit the INFO key to find out the channel (it differs from system to system)--you can get back to the screens from the remote by tuning that channel. On my system it's 611. If both tuners are being used for recording, you can view the diag screens by hitting the EXIT key on the STB.

Answer to the second part of my question--are the diag screens the same under SARA? is there a screen called "DVR AVFS" giving the total, used and free space in gigabytes. (2 to the 30th power computing gigabytes, not 10 to the 9th power "marketing" gigabytes; you can tell the difference because if it's computing GB, the total space should be just over 150 GB :)).

Could someone please check this and not just report from memory? (Unless you use this screen daily, as I do). Thanks.

OK Mike, I checked. I simplified the answer before because the number of diagnostic screens varies with the version of SARA (it is 1.85.17.3 here).

On this version it is screen 18 (out of 30) and the screen is labeled "DVR-HDD Information" Attached is a screen shot of this screen. I hope that this helps.

Hmmm. Not nearly as handy as the DVR AVFS screen on Passport, but I can work with it. It has one screen for the AVFS and the ITFS (Passport has two). Instead of the capacity, used and free space in GB, it gives the capacity and free space in clusters of 4700 512-byte sectors (for the AVFS), a cluster being the smallest unit of allocation in that part of the filesystem. You will note that 4700 * 512 = 2406400 * 67199 = 161.7 billion bytes (marketing GB) / 2^30 = 150.6 (computing) GB. The unit in that picture has about 67.7 GB free.

Gracias!

Mike,

Thanks for the explanation. A picture is worth a thousand words, isn't it?

That unit was at 49% full when the shot was taken.

Originally posted by davehancock
Mike,

Thanks for the explanation. A picture is worth a thousand words, isn't it?

That unit was at 49% full when the shot was taken. Okay, if you say so :). By my calculations, it was 55% full: 30207 (the free space) / 671.99 (1% of the capacity) = 44.95

Originally posted by michaeltscott
Okay, if you say so :). By my calculations, it was 55% full: 30207 (the free space) / 671.99 (1% of the capacity) = 44.95

Would the difference be the amount of space used for the buffer on the active channel vs the space used for past recordings?

That is correct and has been pointed out before. Also, the actual percentage of free space is only useful as an estimate since the amount of space required by any given recording varies a lot depending on the actual bandwidth being used, etc. I've seen reports of programs taking as little as 4-5G/hr and as much as 9G/hr or more.

I find that when there are no recordings on it my DVR is always holding back 5.4 GB--I assume that this is for the trick-play buffers. 2.7 GB per would be enough for about 23 minutes of ABC's 17 Mbps average, 26 of NBC's average 15 Mbps, or about a half hour of CBS' 13 Mbps. (These numbers are as measured on my system--your mileage will vary). That seems about right. It can't ever let you allocate the space for these buffers to a permanent file, IMHO--even if the unit is full and can't record anything more, it has to let you "pause live TV", or it ceases to be a DVR.

Still, if I take 5.4 GB out of the capacity I still get that it was 53.3% full. Not a big deal--maybe the SARA model reserves more space for the buffers.

I take it that SARA has a percentage used meter somewhere in its GUI?

Mike,

Yes. See the attached. The % used is now higher as I have recorded some stuff since yesterday.

Dave

Sorry, the attachment didn't go through. Here it is.

Originally posted by michaeltscott
Pete, the laws and protection mechanisms for digital television, which have taken years to hammer out, are designed to give you the flexibility that you seek.
Well, they are, provided you're willing to put up with some restrictions (can't watch that episode of Deadwood on my laptop in bed) and are willing to repurchase all your existing equipment (my recorder doesn't support DTCP). I find this particularly annoying for television that's broadcast freely over the air.

Personally, I think that making a compelling product affordably priced is the best way to combat piracy, rather than attempts to restrict fair use rights of consumers.

Originally posted by hookbill
Thanks ranger999. I kind of felt it might be a FOX issue. And the fact that it's happening in other DVR's confirms it. I appreciate the response.
Happening here in Austin, too. Americal Idol, 24, House, Superbowl, all were broken up, and all the breakups occur in commercial breaks. Very strange.

Originally posted by Chris Carollo
Happening here in Austin, too. Americal Idol, 24, House, Superbowl, all were broken up, and all the breakups occur in commercial breaks. Very strange.

Interesting way to skip commercials.

Wanted to add a warning to everyone with this problem. Be sure you are not limiting the saved episodes or you will miss the first part of the show. For example, we recore Am Idol but I have it set to only keep three episodes. So basically I was getting three recordings; a two minute (commercial break) a twelve minute (last twelve minutes of the show) and a two minute (another commercial.) This drove me crazy (especially when my wife forced be to put the tivo back on the main TV so she can see her show.)

Originally posted by davehancock
Sorry, the attachment didn't go through. Here it is. Interesting--there are some Passport users here that would really love that. Passport puts a little hourglass besides entries in the saved recordings list when, based on the current set of furture recording tasks, it's going to have to delete some of them within the next few days. It estimates how long you have to watch each of them and tells you as you scroll to its entry: "About 2 days", "About 4 days", "More than a week", etc. It won't ever automatically delete anything unless it has to to make space for something new--it schedules the deletions by the order of saved recordings list, which is least recently recorded last, deleted first. You can can change the order by "grabbing" an entry and moving it up or down the list.

(I should buy a cheap-o digital camera for communicating stuff like this to people on the net--not having any other use for a camera, I don't own one).

Originally posted by Chris Carollo
... and are willing to repurchase all your existing equipment (my recorder doesn't support DTCP).I'm curious--what recorder would that be? I'm not aware of any recording equipment with HD digital inputs which do not support HDCP, with the exception of HTCPs. Few people building HTPCs around HDTV were unaware of DTCP--it was around since the beginning of HD broadcasting. (Panasonic's first D-VHS deck, which shipped the middle of the year after HD broadcasting began in November, had 1394/DTCP--they shipped some sort of satellite tuner with a Firewire output that could be used with it).

Hi Guys,

They added a new HD channel in my area today. In our local forum, many of us had to reboot to get this on our channel line up. I had to.

The was CBS in HD so I went into my recordings list and deleted all my analog recordings on CBS. I then tried to record them on the HD channel. It went through all the motions but at the end it did not set itself to record.

I seem to recall seeing this problem somewhere and I did do a search but I can't find it. This is happening on all my channels not just the new HD channel.

Anyone know what's up? SARA 1.85.17.3

Originally posted by hookbill
The was CBS in HD so I went into my recordings list and deleted all my analog recordings on CBS. I then tried to record them on the HD channel. It went through all the motions but at the end it did not set itself to record.

I seem to recall seeing this problem somewhere and I did do a search but I can't find it. This is happening on all my channels not just the new HD channel.

Anyone know what's up? SARA 1.85.17.3

What has typically been done is to turn the box off, then pull the power cord to the box for a few minutes. Then plug back in and let the box boot up fresh again. This does a clean reboot and usually fixes this issue after this.

Originally posted by cdp1276
What has typically been done is to turn the box off, then pull the power cord to the box for a few minutes. Then plug back in and let the box boot up fresh again. This does a clean reboot and usually fixes this issue after this.

Actually that was the first thing I did and it didn't work. What happened was I ended up calling the cable company and the resent the signal. Now that has never worked for any problem I have ever had in the past but it did work that time. Amazing.

vegggas posted a while back that when rebooting the box, you should actually hold the Power button for 10 seconds or so while plugging the power cord back in. I assume this results in a more complete reboot/reset than simply unplugging/plugging the power cord. Perhaps the code the cableco sent accomplished the same thing. Obviously it did more that just reboot the box since you had already tried that.

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
vegggas posted a while back that when rebooting the box, you should actually hold the Power button for 10 seconds or so while plugging the power cord back in. I assume this results in a more complete reboot/reset than simply unplugging/plugging the power cord. Perhaps the code the cableco sent accomplished the same thing. Obviously it did more that just reboot the box since you had already tried that.

You know I left it unplugged for sometime before I rebooted the thing too.

Well, so long as it's working. Last time they sent me a signal I had a hard time getting it to stay on auto, that didn't happen this time.

Replaced my fuzzy-HD-image 8000HD with a 8300HD last week. Went from only 890 lines of horizontal rez to 1290 with 8300HD using HDNet's Tuesday 8 am Eastern test patterns into my CRT RPTV via YPbPr only. Someone else on NYC TWC's system measured 1280 lines yesterday into a fixed-pixel display (1366 max). Curious if others on different cable systems measure similar maximum horizontal resolutions. Used this pattern-measurement technique (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5175424#post5175424). -- John

John,
A lot of us with more dedicated cable systems (single vendor) do not have HDnet to do comparisons yet. I have talked to INHD though, and they said they will be introducing test patterns "sometime soon". These will be global across the cable systems for better comparisons and testing.

vegggas

vegggas, INHD introduced their HD Tuneup earlier this month. They've been running it early (5:00) Sat mornings.

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
vegggas, INHD introduced their HD Tuneup earlier this month. They've been running it early (5:00) Sat mornings.

That would be 8:00 est.:)

Recorded the "INHD Tune Up" a while back, but unfortunately they neglected to put a resolution test pattern on it. Looked up the next cablecast using the very handy 8300HD search feature and found it's set for 7 am Eastern this Saturday, 2/19.

vegggas,
Hope more cable systems supply HDNet and its Tuesday 8 am Eastern 10-minute test patterns--or INHD adds resolution wedges, too. With enough measurements of maximum horizontal resolution from cable systems, perhaps with comparisons to DirecTV or big-dish HDNet-delivered test patterns, a better picture of rate-shaping, or DirecTV's deliberate format reductions, could be formed.

Looked up Gary Merson's review of the Toshiba LCoS RPTV in the May/June '03 "The Perfect Vision." Using DirecTV/HDNet he measured ~1700X1080 lines, then 1920X1080 resolution with his test-pattern generator. So it would be interesting to see if HDNet still is delivering at least ~1700X1080, via any source, and whether the two ~1285 readings mentioned (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5191911#post5191911) for my TWC system--about 24% less--result from cable/DBS rate shaping or compression, HDNet pattern/delivery limitations, display limitations, or other reasons. -- John

Originally posted by John Mason
Recorded the "INHD Tune Up" a while back, but unfortunately they neglected to put a resolution test pattern on it. Looked up the next cablecast using the very handy 8300HD search feature and found it's set for 7 am Eastern this Saturday, 2/19.

John

John, thanks for the update on this. I'm interested in checking out their test pattern vs HDNET. I thought 8:00 est because DoubleDAZ lives in AZ and I forgot they are one of those states that don't change time.

Originally posted by hookbill
John, thanks for the update on this. I'm interested in checking out their test pattern vs HDNET. I thought 8:00 est because DoubleDAZ lives in AZ and I forgot they are one of those states that don't change time. Even if we did, that isn't until April, it's standard time now. :)

I have a Cablevision SciAtl 8300.

I set a certain HD program to record a few days ago.

It shows up in the queue with the proper amount of time listed (the
scheduled time plus a one minute buffer I inserted).

However, when I press "play" the DVR simply displays the default
channel 1000 screen. When I select "record to VCR" the basic DVR
scheduled program screen is output through my AV jacks when usually
the program would be there.

All of the other recordings appear fine, including ones made both
before an dafter the one in question.

Any solutions -- my wife would really like to watch this show!

Do any of the correct recordings have a buffer that you added? If not, then I would suggest trying to record it wthout adding any buffer.

This is killing me. I have the SA 8300HD with a HDMI to DVI cable from monoprice.com going into my Sanyo Z2 projector. The only way I can get the picture to show up is to reset the SA 8300HD using the soft reset using the front buttons. Otherwise, the projector reads "No signal." I believe it has to do with the HDCP hand shaking, but I do not receive any HDCP errors. Does anyone have any idea what is up or what I need to do?

Thanks in advance!

Originally posted by jmorehouse
This is killing me. I have the SA 8300HD with a HDMI to DVI cable from monoprice.com going into my Sanyo Z2 projector. The only way I can get the picture to show up is to reset the SA 8300HD using the soft reset using the front buttons. Otherwise, the projector reads "No signal." I believe it has to do with the HDCP hand shaking, but I do not receive any HDCP errors. Does anyone have any idea what is up or what I need to do?

Thanks in advance!

Is it the same if you have the projector turned on and active on your 8300 input, and then turn the 8300 on? If I turn my projector off (Infocus 4805) while my 8300 is on, I get the HDCP lockout, and I have to unplug and replug my HDMI cable.

HDCP is a real pain!

Hope you get it working. I'm probably going to use component for my 8300 since HDCP is such a problem-

wes

I think I've read most, if not all, of this thread. There seams to be a lot of people with HDCP issues over HDMI/DVI cables. I'm having it with straight HDMI connection to a new GWIV. WHen I first turn everything on, I get an error saing my display does not support HDCP (which I'm sure it does). If I change the channel it goes away and doesn't come back. It a lot less annoying than many others' problems, but still pretty irritating given that I'm dealing with all the 'latest' technology.

On a side note, I connected my GWIV via Monster Component cables and A/R HDMI cable; when toggling back and forth between the two I've yet to notice a PQ difference. I wonder if this is due to the Sony's analog path, or the fact that I'm only passing 1080i from the 8300...

I'm using an HDMI/DVI cable to my Mits 65. I have not experienced a single issue with the connection. With that said, I too notice very little difference between it and Component...

I did some testing last night, and I'm only getting the message when I power on the cable box first. So it must fire up and not get an acknowledgement over the HDMI and immediately spit out the error. I imagine when I change channels the TV sends the HDCP info and they sync up.

95se, that is correct. The preferred sequence (at least when experiencing problems) is to turn on the TV first and then the STB. Depending on the TV, it may need to warm up before the STB is turned on to ensure the proper signal is available for the HDCP handshake.

avmike, many folks report no significant PQ difference with CRT-based RPTVs. HDMI/DVI does tend to increase PQ with digital (DLP, LCD, etc.) HDTVs.

Just so you guys know.....SA has fixed this HDCP thing. We have the fix here in Cablevision land. Just a matter of getting your MSO to issue an update.

They've also fixed the pixelation and audio dropout issues that a lot of people see.

We are anxiously awaiting the next update which is suppossed address some of these usability issues we've talked about here and some added features (i.e. 128x FF and RW).

Fingers crossed that getting kicked out to live has been fixed.

SARA 1.87.14.1 here.

See my post here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=516559

Just so you guys know.....SA has fixed this HDCP thing. We have the fix here in Cablevision land. Just a matter of getting your MSO to issue an update.
They've also fixed the pixelation and audio dropout issues that a lot of people see.

SARA 1.87.14.1 here. [/QUOTE]

Just to be clear, they did fix it BUT when they did they "broke" the resolution controls so the box couldn't switch from SD to HD. (no one at CV ever heard about Beta testing). This problem applied to everyone.
They just issued a fix for the fix (about 3 weeks after they broke it). I got it on Thursday - on Friday night it stopped working and all resolution problems returned - but I must admit, the HDCP is still fixed. I never thought I would say this but I was better off when I had to reboot everyday to get the HDMI to work.

I wouldn't wait "anxiously" for anything from CV - they really suck. Any upgrades are unlikely since they still have basic functionality problems to deal with like manual recording problems and people who still have pixelation. Personally, I have a manual recording that doesn't appear in the scheduled list, doesn't actually record and can't be deleted.

If there is a TV God an HD TIVO (dual tuner) will appear sooner rather than later. When it does CV will still be trying to fix basic audio/video problems. Therey can only get away with their pathetic services because they have no competition.

Originally posted by HGA
[B]If there is a TV God an HD TIVO (dual tuner) will appear sooner rather than later. When it does CV will still be trying to fix basic audio/video problems. Therey can only get away with their pathetic services because they have no competition.

There is. You can get it with Direct TV. Only cost about 1000.00.:)

And much less HD ofcourse.

HGA, what version of SARA you have? Everyone else had that resolution bug fixed this week, so it might be something on your end.

It certainly seems like Cablevision is ahead of most other MSOs are far as the 8300 software.

Your anger is directly mostly to the wrong party. Cablevision gets the software from SA. They need SA to provide them fixed for all of thse bugs. All they can do is test it and push it to us.

Originally posted by lexluthor
HGA, what version of SARA you have? Everyone else had that resolution bug fixed this week, so it might be something on your end.

Your anger is directly mostly to the wrong party. Cablevision gets the software from SA. They need SA to provide them fixed for all of thse bugs. All they can do is test it and push it to us.


I have SARA 1.87.14.1 . The first day I got it it wouldn't accept DVI/HDMI Auto but would accept Upconvert2 (which I was OK with). Then it just stopped working ojn Friday. I would expect that others will start having the same problem soon.

As for the anger, I must disagree I have the right party. I don't pay SA every month I pay CV. They could have gotten different software, like Passport. They should not have released a product to their customers with known problems just like they shouldn't have released a patch that "broke" something else (which would have been obvious to any functioning person if they had bothered to test it at all). And finally, their service does suck. Call them with any 8300HD problem and you always get the same answers - 1. we will get you a new box and 2. you are the only person who has that problem. Since the problem is software a new box won't help and we all know that everyone had the HD resolution problem.

As for the Sat TV solution I would love to but I would need to cut down some trees which, amazingly, I am now considering. Sorry to rant but I have really had it with these people. The phrase "going postal" should be changed to "going cable"!!!

Originally posted by HGA
I have SARA 1.87.14.1 . The first day I got it it wouldn't accept DVI/HDMI Auto but would accept Upconvert2 (which I was OK with). Then it just stopped working ojn Friday. I would expect that others will start having the same problem soon.



Well, at least according to the yahoo group that you posted in too, it appears as if it's just you with this type of problem.

Why don't you describe the exact probably you are having in more detail?

Originally posted by lexluthor
Well, at least according to the yahoo group that you posted in too, it appears as if it's just you with this type of problem.

Why don't you describe the exact probably you are having in more detail?

Actually at least 2 other people posted resolution problems. A number of people posted other problems they did have before. In either event the postings don't represent the problems that exist in full world of CV customers. I would be willing to bet that I am not the only one having this problem although that is CV's response to every problem no matter how many people are having the problem i.e when the resolution problem first started and EVERYONE had it a CV HD rep told me I was the only customer with this type of problem.

As for detail there really isn't any - the first patch fixed the HDMI/HDCP problem but created the HD/SD switching / resolution problem. The fix for the fix did not fix the resolution problem - its exactly the same as it was before I got the latest patch.

Originally posted by HGA
Actually at least 2 other people posted resolution problems. \
IIRC, both people later retracted that they were still having problems. I know at least one did saying that he was using composite instead of component or HDMI.

Have you re-run through all of your connections and your STB setup?

Why don't you exlpain exactly how you are connected and exactly what's happening? Give us the resolutions you are set for in the setup screen and the setting you have in the video settings screen (i.e. HDMI/DVI passthrough, etc.).

http://www.thestreet.com/_mktwrm/stocks/media/10213207.html?cm_ven=CBSM&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA

TiVo Snares Comcast Deal

By TSC Staff
3/15/2005 9:37 AM EST

Comcast (CMCSA:Nasdaq - commentary - research) agreed Tuesday to develop a new digital video recorder with TiVo (TIVO:Nasdaq - commentary - research).

Financial terms of the nonexclusive deal weren't disclosed, but news of the agreement sent TiVo rocketing 54% early Tuesday.

The new service will be marketed with the TiVo brand, and is expected to be available on Comcast's DVR products in most markets in mid-to-late 2006, the companies said. Comcast said the partnership will provide millions of its customers with "the opportunity to choose the TiVo service, including TiVo's award-winning user interface and features like Season Pass and WishList, as an additional option."

TiVo licenses digital video recording technology to set-top box manufacturers and offers subscriptions to its digital television guide. Comcast is the nation's largest cable television system operator.

The good news comes as a tonic for TiVo, which has suffered a number of setbacks lately, namely the decision of onetime partner DirecTV (DTV:NYSE - commentary - research) to use a DVR made by a News Corp. (NWS:NYSE - commentary - research) affiliate at the expense of the TiVo service.

As a result TiVo shares have been hammered over the last year, falling from about $12 to recent levels. Bears on the stock say the TiVo DVR is threatened by competing recorders, particularly those sold by cable and satellite television companies.

Early Tuesday, TiVo surged $2.08 to $5.91, while Comcast added a nickel to $34.04.

Wow. Wonder if they are going to have an HD DVR available. This is great news for Comcast people. Unfortunately I'm with looser Adelphia.

I'm still holding out for the rumored 2-tuner HD-TIVO with cablecard slots. As far as I can tell, the only thing I'd be giving up is video on demand, which I don't use anyway.

Well this deal may (just speculation) force you to hold out longer. Tivo has been pushing the FCC to enforce a regulation which would require the cablecos to only deploy STBs with cablecards starting in July 2006. That in turn would force the cablecos to fully develop and deploy two-way cablecard or risk losing all of their VOD and PPV revenue, which obviously wouldn't happen. With this deal though, Tivo and Comcast are now partners, not rivals and Tivo is likely to lose (or give up on) the battle with the cablecos who are trying to delay the FCC regulation by at least a year. Plus Tivo will probably be focusing more on developing the Comcast specific software than the HD SA Tivo.

So while definitely a big positive for Comcast subs, it may be bad news for everyone else. Unless of course, Time Warner and other cablecos follow suit and sign up deals with Tivo.

I have looked thru every thread that is on here and still cannot find a resolution to my problem. I had thought that I previously seen someone with the same problem.

Here it goes. I used the program guide to record future shows on HDNetMov and it only listed it as 1 minute but wouldn't even allow me to view the movie in my list. This has happened on other channels as well. Any ideas?

One more thing. I as well have issues on a somewhat constant basis with pixelation on INHD1 and INHD2. I have had techs out many times. They put an amp on my line.. (now i am +10 to +17)...they ran a new line to the pedistal in my backyard (that solved the problem for a while), but I still have the occasional pixelation (sometimes small inconvenience...other times massively messing up the show I am watching (The Ulitimate Fighting Championship)...just as an example. Thanks in advance for all your help.

Rooster...KC Time Warner

Originally posted by rooster_kctwc

One more thing. I as well have issues on a somewhat constant basis with pixelation on INHD1 and INHD2. I have had techs out many times. They put an amp on my line.. (now i am +10 to +17)...they ran a new line to the pedistal in my backyard (that solved the problem for a while), but I still have the occasional pixelation (sometimes small inconvenience...other times massively messing up the show I am watching (The Ulitimate Fighting Championship)...just as an example. Thanks in advance for all your help.

Rooster...KC Time Warner
I think it depends on how much of your HD is used up. Delete some recordings and it gets better.

But, there's hope. We (Cablevision customers) have already received the SARA update to fix this issue and it indeed has fixed it. Push your provider to get that patch sent out to you.

SARA 1.87.14.1

He's most likely on Passport in KC.
The SA8000HD has some problems with heat, so I elevated it on little wooden spacers on an end-table by itself, which seemed to reduce the pixelation. I put the new SA8300HD in the same place just in case; although I haven't heard anyone talk about the heat issue with it.
Rebooting sometimes helps. Clean out stored programs as mentioned above. I'm leery of rebooting with the select button down (or whichever forces a reload of the software), since the Passport version on the 8300 is newer than the one on the 8000. I don't want to tempt fate and chance loading an older version if the head-end isn't set up to differentiate between 8000/8300.
May just be a bad box, given that the line tech did everything correctly. As a card-carrying pessimist, these things seem to be sensitive to both under and over-driven signals (for lack of a better term). I have not seen near the same amount of pixelation with the 8300, or had problems with the recordings (kow), given some small amount of wonky changes when the stations jump from HD to SD and back for commercials.
You might want to poll the TWC-KC thread also.

v/r,
C-F

Originally posted by CANNON-FODDER
I'm leery of rebooting with the select button down (or whichever forces a reload of the software), since the Passport version on the 8300 is newer than the one on the 8000. I don't want to tempt fate and chance loading an older version if the head-end isn't set up to differentiate between 8000/8300.
C-F

When you reboot your computer would you rather do it by clicking start, turn off computer, then restart or just unplug it from the wall?

I would think it's actually safer to reboot it using the the button sequence as this is a soft reboot, not a hard reboot. I would think it's much easier on the hard drive.

My advice do not reboot your box unless you check you signal on the diag screen first. It doesn't matter if you reboot from the power button or unplug it this will not hurt the hard drive. Call into cusomer service and they will have us check your hard drive off the controller. And by the way rebooting your box will not cause you to revert back to an older version of software. When the box reboots it reads the latest version of software off the controller.

2 tuner hd box...but what about mpeg4?
interseting...they have become cheaper..hmm


Martin

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Barco 801S, Centerstage CS2 w/SDi,Infocus X1,SA8300HD DVR/STB,AMD64 HTPC/HCPC, kenwood vr8070 receiver and the rest of the audio system is also kenwood!!! (looking for a standalone dvdplayer to modify with SDI...)
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I'm still holding out for the rumored 2-tuner HD-TIVO with cablecard slots. As far as I can tell, the only thing I'd be giving up is video on demand, which I don't use anyway.

Same here, and I really hope this happens soon. I've been using the SA 8300HD now since it came out almost over a year ago. It still has many problems, no software improvements to UI or any of the problems that I've seen. Then on top of that I get new reliability issues like the latest one I have now.

Anyone seeing this new issue where the box crashes when you try to watch a recorded show while another different show is still recording? Then the box reboots and keeps recording after it comes back from reboot. But loses all the recorded show time during reboot and only records for another minute or so and then reboots again. Repeats like this till the show is done recording and I can finally turn the 8300 back on again and control it. Amazing how poor a company can be, and how poor off-shore software development is without a defined QC process in place before deployment.

Same here, and I really hope this happens soon. I've been using the SA 8300HD now since it came out almost over a year ago. It still has many problems, no software improvements to UI or any of the problems that I've seen. Then on top of that I get new reliability issues like the latest one I have now.

Anyone seeing this new issue where the box crashes when you try to watch a recorded show while another different show is still recording? Then the box reboots and keeps recording after it comes back from reboot. But loses all the recorded show time during reboot and only records for another minute or so and then reboots again. Repeats like this till the show is done recording and I can finally turn the 8300 back on again and control it. Amazing how poor a company can be, and how poor off-shore software development is without a defined QC process in place before deployment.

Yes, this has been discussed before. At the time it seemed to be a problem with FOX. This happened right around Super Bowl time.

I want to say something in the 8300's defense. This is a box that is designed to work with MANY cable companies. All cable companies are different even from area to area as most of them inherited equipment from whomever they took over.

Now your talking about a piece of machine that costs 7-10 bucks a month. What do you think a two receiver capable HD TiVo is going to cost? Consider that the HD TiVo they currently have is a thousand bucks, basically what you get is pretty good considering the cost.

As far as reliability, definitely there are problems. They also change from area to area depending on the software that is installed. If you haven't received an update in your software that may not be SA's fault. It could be simply that your cable system cannot work with any of the updates SA has available. I personally have seen two updates come through in the last 8 months. They wern't anything earth shattering but one did enable the SATA connection.

Yes, this has been discussed before. At the time it seemed to be a problem with FOX. This happened right around Super Bowl time.

Can you further explain what issue was discussed before and how it was resolved? My box crashing all of a sudden has nothing to do with FOX as I don't yet get FOX in HD so I record nothing on the SA box from FOX.

Now your talking about a piece of machine that costs 7-10 bucks a month. What do you think a two receiver capable HD TiVo is going to cost? Consider that the HD TiVo they currently have is a thousand bucks, basically what you get is pretty good considering the cost.
As far as reliability, definitely there are problems.

I understand yours and many others position on this. I guess all I'm saying is personally I'm willing to pay more for a TiVo box that is enriched with the features I desire and the reliability I expect with consistent solidly tested future software updates.

They also change from area to area depending on the software that is installed. If you haven't received an update in your software that may not be SA's fault. It could be simply that your cable system cannot work with any of the updates SA has available. I personally have seen two updates come through in the last 8 months. They wern't anything earth shattering but one did enable the SATA connection.

For reference I'm with TimeWarner Cable and our Rochester area is actually a test bed for SA and once approved by our local market we always get the latest SA software. I've seen a number of updates in the past year. This seems to be good and bad. I used to be in constant communication with the head of the DVR office at TWC that has weekly calls with SA. I seemed to find a number of bugs and issues that they never saw in testing before they deployed. Once again I was doing nothing fancy but using the normal features of the box. So it seems again they really lack an extensive testing/QA process for all the markets.

Same here, and I really hope this happens soon. I've been using the SA 8300HD now since it came out almost over a year ago. It still has many problems, no software improvements to UI or any of the problems that I've seen. Then on top of that I get new reliability issues like the latest one I have now.

Anyone seeing this new issue where the box crashes when you try to watch a recorded show while another different show is still recording? Then the box reboots and keeps recording after it comes back from reboot. But loses all the recorded show time during reboot and only records for another minute or so and then reboots again. Repeats like this till the show is done recording and I can finally turn the 8300 back on again and control it. Amazing how poor a company can be, and how poor off-shore software development is without a defined QC process in place before deployment.

I haven't seen this problem and I am often recording two shows while watching a third at night. I'm running SARA with Comcast.

Have you tried another box? Good thing about renting them is you can swap out when you want.

Can you further explain what issue was discussed before and how it was resolved? My box crashing all of a sudden has nothing to do with FOX as I don't yet get FOX in HD so I record nothing on the SA box from FOX.

I'm not sure what thread this was discussed on, if it wasn't this one it was SA 8300 SARA - COX CABLE. Anyway as I recall FOX was trying to prevent recording of the Super Bowl. As far as your issue goes, I have experienced a while back the "mini" recording issue. I haven't had a problem with it since January.

I understand yours and many others position on this. I guess all I'm saying is personally I'm willing to pay more for a TiVo box that is enriched with the features I desire and the reliability I expect with consistent solidly tested future software updates.

I understand. Having been a former TiVo owner I think it's simply the best.


For reference I'm with TimeWarner Cable and our Rochester area is actually a test bed for SA and once approved by our local market we always get the latest SA software. I've seen a number of updates in the past year. This seems to be good and bad. I used to be in constant communication with the head of the DVR office at TWC that has weekly calls with SA. I seemed to find a number of bugs and issues that they never saw in testing before they deployed. Once again I was doing nothing fancy but using the normal features of the box. So it seems again they really lack an extensive testing/QA process for all the markets.

I won't disagree. I think there is room for all kinds of improvement in the way they develop their product. There is a person name Vegggas on these boards and says he is in fact a beta tester of their product. Just an FYI, if you want more info on that pm him.

Hello folks

I have been using the sa8300hd box for about three months now!
I live in the La area so my cable company is charter (which love to hire slow people as customer help reps!!! Dont ask me why!!)
Anyhow
true there is no dvi...but you can get a hdmi to dvi cable for that.
I use this box with a seperate video processor and a crt projector (and an infocus x1!), hense i love the passthrough option...i can also use the zoom properly..since i m doing it this way! with a hdtv flat panel or a plasme...which i also own...it looks all weirded out!
..most important fiture is that i can see no difference between 480i and the 480p...which the box is suppose to get from the cable company...hense the 1.50 charge for hd service!
anyhow 1080i works good...720p is a little weird..but since i can maipulate the output with my cs2 video processor.who care....(I certainly dont!)..

so far its been great for 10 bucks a month! but i would still prefere a motorola box with a rs232 connection...that way i can have full control over my cable box and satelite and everything else (whihc already has rs232!)
so if SA is listening! RS232 port...NOW!!! PLEASE!!!!

Thank you all

Martin out
fire away!

Hello folks

!
..most important fiture is that i can see no difference between 480i and the 480p...which the box is suppose to get from the cable company...hense the 1.50 charge for hd service!
anyhow 1080i works good...720p is a little weird..but since i can maipulate the output with my cs2 video processor.who care....(I certainly dont!)..

so far its been great for 10 bucks a month! but i would still prefere a motorola box with a rs232 connection...that way i can have full control over my cable box and satelite and everything else (whihc already has rs232!)
so if SA is listening! RS232 port...NOW!!! PLEASE!!!!

Thank you all

Martin out
fire away!

Well, you can't see 480p unless something is broadcast on 480p. In my area the only thing that is shown in 480p are the music channels.

You can select 480p instead of 480i. That may improve the quality of your picture, it seems to in my area. You would have to do that at the set up screen.

As far as the RS232 port. You've got to be kidding. Many people don't even have the SATA port activated.

thanks hook bill...yeah i was aware of something needing to be 480p to be getting it in 480p, i guess i didnt explain/worded myself correctly/properly...

what i meant was that i tried to convert 480i to 480p using a dcdi chiped harmon kardon AVR-7300..which does the conversion without a sweat!
but what i was trying to get across is that the difference isnt really eye ctaching! at least not with my barco crt and infocus X1 conencted (both of which are) to the centerstage cs2 w/sdi..

and yes i do agree about my rs232 dillema..almost all f my devices have them so i figured i sue them all...but gettting it to work with creston remote or something of a sort is too complicatred...and that is why i us ethe rs232 to control my cs2 and barco crt..aloong with my rotel preamp and someof the other "devices" that i have installed in my bedroom!

I guess i could dream a little everyonce in a while...hey hookbill ...do all those parrots have different personalities??? i mean can you tell whcih is which without looking at the colors..say it is in the dark and all you see is shadows of the parrots moving!!
i was just wondering!
I am acat/god person but i did take care of a wounded owl when i was little...i thing it might still be at the zoo..hey how long do owls live?? does anyone know? better check it out! but seriously...parrots are fun!

good luck folks

Martin

thanks hook bill...yeah i was aware of something needing to be 480p to be getting it in 480p, i guess i didnt explain/worded myself correctly/properly...

what i meant was that i tried to convert 480i to 480p using a dcdi chiped harmon kardon AVR-7300..which does the conversion without a sweat!
but what i was trying to get across is that the difference isnt really eye ctaching! at least not with my barco crt and infocus X1 conencted (both of which are) to the centerstage cs2 w/sdi..

and yes i do agree about my rs232 dillema..almost all f my devices have them so i figured i sue them all...but gettting it to work with creston remote or something of a sort is too complicatred...and that is why i us ethe rs232 to control my cs2 and barco crt..aloong with my rotel preamp and someof the other "devices" that i have installed in my bedroom!

I guess i could dream a little everyonce in a while...hey hookbill ...do all those parrots have different personalities??? i mean can you tell whcih is which without looking at the colors..say it is in the dark and all you see is shadows of the parrots moving!!
i was just wondering!
I am acat/god person but i did take care of a wounded owl when i was little...i thing it might still be at the zoo..hey how long do owls live?? does anyone know? better check it out! but seriously...parrots are fun!

good luck folks

Martin


Off topic of course but since you asked I will tell you that all my birds have different personalities. I also have 4 cats, and before you ask no, they don't bother the birds....at least the larger ones. Sometimes they think about going after a smaller bird.

Some of my parrots can live as old as 80 years. My oldest is 17.

Now back to the 8300 discussion..... :)

cool deal!
i have always been interest din animals..also have 3 cats! but 80 years!wow
never knew that!

you are correct!!! lets get back to the sa8300hd discussion...does anyone tried to modify that uzb port that is only suppose to work with a keyboard to support...say a usb harddrive cube looking deallie....probably with 4 x 250 gigs..reason i ask is i was wondering how big of a problem should it be to make it see the drives..i m taking it is a flavor of unices..like maybe a really small linux! and since the cable company can remote control it ..why shouldn't i be able to do that!

anyhow..i m probably asking for too much out of my dvr set up!
i already have a usb2.0 cage with 2 x 250 drives and wanted to connect that to my AMD64 HTPC, which also has two pci tvcard and a capture card..and a xcard..but that is beside the point!
right now my sa8300hd is connected to one of those pci capture card..so whatever i do on the stb/dvr..happens on tea screen and my crt pj!
it works good ..but the thing is i basically am running two places to capture stuff!
and since whatever gets saved to the sa8300hd ..basically is encypted or whatever they have done to make sure you can only capture if you pipe it straight to the capture cards port...
I was thinking maybe someone had a better solution..reason being is ...ok fine you manage to connect to a usb cage with a bunch of drives...but then what happens when you gotta change boxes or the cable company goes belly up?
see my point!

Thanks
by the way parrots are super cool....which one should i start caring for..i mean i m sure i shouldn't just get a fully big talking one that costs an arm and a leg when i haven't taken care of a cockatoo or something like that! any input hookbill? (by PM ofcourse,,so that we could keep the subject in check!)

Thanks again

Martin out


Martin

This is killing me. I have the SA 8300HD with a HDMI to DVI cable from monoprice.com going into my Sanyo Z2 projector. The only way I can get the picture to show up is to reset the SA 8300HD using the soft reset using the front buttons. Otherwise, the projector reads "No signal." I believe it has to do with the HDCP hand shaking, but I do not receive any HDCP errors. Does anyone have any idea what is up or what I need to do?

Thanks in advance!
Have you had any luck passing any non-HD channels to your Z2 through an HDMI cable? I've got a Sony HS20, connected thru HDMI, and no matter what I set the box to (Auto, Upconvert 1, Upconvert 2, etc.) if I change channels to something that is not 720p or 1080i, the signal is lost. Switch back to a HD channel, the signal comes back. My understanding is that if I use Upconvert 1 or 2 it should send only a 720p or 1080i signal no matter what the source is. Perhaps my box is not working correctly.

Have you had any luck passing any non-HD channels to your Z2 through an HDMI cable? I've got a Sony HS20, connected thru HDMI, and no matter what I set the box to (Auto, Upconvert 1, Upconvert 2, etc.) if I change channels to something that is not 720p or 1080i, the signal is lost. Switch back to a HD channel, the signal comes back. My understanding is that if I use Upconvert 1 or 2 it should send only a 720p or 1080i signal no matter what the source is. Perhaps my box is not working correctly.


i dont have any of that happening! but i m using a cs2 video processor..and all my upconvesions and zooms work as they should..but again i m is a front projection scrt..

Martin

Is anyone having a signal (handshaking) problem using the HDMI --> HDMI interface from an SA8300HD-DVR to a Panasonic PDP? I have a 50PX50U that supports 480i/480p/720p/1080i signals and the STB it set to 480p standard format/720p/1080i. At times the STB reports it is passing 480p to the TV but the TV reports (and displays) the signal as 1080i. Sometimes the reverse is true. The settings on the STB were "Auto DVI/HDMI." It got so bad, I decided to use the component interface w/pass-through instead.

oops!

Is anyone having a signal (handshaking) problem using the HDMI --> HDMI interface from an SA8300HD-DVR to a Panasonic PDP? I have a 50PX50U that supports 480i/480p/720p/1080i signals and the STB it set to 480p standard format/720p/1080i. At times the STB reports it is passing 480p to the TV but the TV reports (and displays) the signal as 1080i. Sometimes the reverse is true. The settings on the STB were "Auto DVI/HDMI." It got so bad, I decided to use the component interface w/pass-through instead.

I also have a Panasonic 50PX50U PDP connected to a SA8300HD-DVR (1.85.20.7 firmware) using the HDMI --> HDMI interface. Originally I used the setup program to identify it as a 16:9 TV and then enabled ALL the formats and then selected the Auto DVI/HDMI option.

At first it seemed to work correctly. 480i, 720p, 1080i channels (only formats available here) were passed and displayed by the 50PX50U as advertised, although when changing formats, or bringing up the IPG, the screen would blank and the audio would drop out for a couple of seconds.

However, after watching 480i programming for awhile a problem became obvious. The audio would drop out and usually the screen would blank for a few seconds at randomn intervals. It may happen once an hour or sometimes several times an hour. It also would do this on recorded 480i programs. You could even rewind the recording to have the section you missed then play correctly. Funny part is, all the 720p, 1080i programs work perfectly.

I then tried reducing the available formats on the SA8300HD-DVR to just 480p, 720p and 1080i while using the Auto DVI/HDMI option which I find a tad better, but I still get audio/video drop outs as described above when watching 480i programs and recorded 480i programs.

It would be nice to have the 480i programs work correctly as then you can take advantage of the ZOOM, STRECTH, JUSTIFIED features in the 50PX50U.

I don't think this HDMI problem is with the Panny, since they are one of the co-authors of the specification.

Anyone else experience this? Or has an idea on how to fix this?

Consider that the HD TiVo they currently have is a thousand bucks, basically what you get is pretty good considering the cost.

Directv Just lowered (as of May 16th) the HD-Tivo from $999 to $699.
You can actually find some retailers selling it for less that $600 now.

I don't think this HDMI problem is with the Panny, since they are one of the co-authors of the specification.

Anyone else experience this? Or has an idea on how to fix this?I agree. The workaround I'm using is to power the TV on & then launch the set-up wizard on the SA8300HD-DVR. The STB remembers my settings: 480p/720p/1080i so I just basically go through the series of steps to confirm that before powering on the cable box. I noticed that if I just powered on the box, it was stuck in 480i mode even though this is not one of my selected settings. If I switched to a channel that was 720p or 1080i the HDTV status would show on the STBs front panel, but it still remained stuck in 480i. Using my workaround... after exiting the setup wizard the STB powers on to 480p and a channel switch that changes the incoming signal from 480p --> 720p or 1080i synchs the STB back up with the PDP. It's a bit of a kludge but it works...

All of this may be moot... as I'm having a CableCARD installed this week.

i have seen some of the probelms you mentioned like the blank screen but no audio drops or some of the only things that i dont like is the inability of getting perfect signal all the time...to my eyes, it seems that the signal fluctuates, and the recordings or the channels you are watching loose resolution...
anyhow

Martin

Directv Just lowered (as of May 16th) the HD-Tivo from $999 to $699.
You can actually find some retailers selling it for less that $600 now.

True, but you do realize that DTV is planning on getting rid of TiVo software and using their own. I doubt it will be as good as TiVo.

An additional issue with investing in an HD DirectTV DVR right now is their upcoming plan to migrate to MPEG4. The last I heard DirectTV's present equipment is not upgradable and they have not provided any assurances regarding upgrades (at no cost to the consumer).

At first it seemed to work correctly. 480i, 720p, 1080i channels (only formats available here) were passed and displayed by the 50PX50U as advertised, although when changing formats, or bringing up the IPG, the screen would blank and the audio would drop out for a couple of seconds.

Anyone else experience this? Or has an idea on how to fix this?

I have the screen blanking problem - it seems that the screen goes blank for a few seconds then it flashes another format, and then restores. Only I'm using a component connection, so, I don't think it's related to your HDMI connection.

I also still get audio/video dropouts on live as well as recorded programs. It's better then it was on the 8000HD but it's still annoying as hell...

I'd love to know a fix or workaround. Re-running the setup everytime I turn on the TV is too much for me.

I have the screen blanking problem - it seems that the screen goes blank for a few seconds then it flashes another format, and then restores. Only I'm using a component connection, so, I don't think it's related to your HDMI connection.
If this was the only problem, I could live with it. Further, if I use the components inputs, I get no dropouts DURING both SD and HD programming.


I also still get audio/video dropouts on live as well as recorded programs. It's better then it was on the 8000HD but it's still annoying as hell....
I get ZERO dropouts on HD programming, only SD programming is affected. YOU may want to get into the service menu and check your signal strength and for packet errors if your getting dropouts on both HD and SD programs using the component inputs.


I'd love to know a fix or workaround. Re-running the setup everytime I turn on the TV is too much for me.
How about a mass protest? No one pays their exorbitant cable bill untill they fix the software in these boxes. :D

How can anyone say what is causing a drop out? OTA people experience them as well. HD TiVo owners also discuss this in the TiVo forum.

Look, I don't think the SA8300 is the greatest thing since slice bread. I'd like to see some things fixed too, like being able to change the time a program is recorded as opposed to having to delete it first. (If you try to add extra time to a recording it doesn't work unless you delete your first recording)

I wish it was intuitive like TiVo so it learns something about what I like to watch and record some programs on it's own. At this time of the year where the pickings are slim that would be great. It ain't gonna happen.

But some of the things like sound drop outs and such I just don't think can all be blamed on the SA 8300. It could be problems with the station (local NBC is nortoriously bad in my area).

But some of the things like sound drop outs and such I just don't think can all be blamed on the SA 8300. It could be problems with the station (local NBC is nortoriously bad in my area).

hookbill, trust me, these aren't station dropouts. I have the 8300HD simultaneously connected to a regular CRT and a PDP via the S-video and HDMI respectively. Both sets would have drop outs if it was the station at fault.

I'm 99.999999% convinced the 8300HD's HDMI implementation isn't up to snuff.

Now if your getting dropouts from anything other than the HDMI port, then I would agree something else is amiss. (e.g. bad wiring, bad box, bad station feed, even bad TV set)

hookbill, trust me, these aren't station dropouts. I have the 8300HD simultaneously connected to a regular CRT and a PDP via the S-video and HDMI respectively. Both sets would have drop outs if it was the station at fault.

I'm 99.999999% convinced the 8300HD's HDMI implementation isn't up to snuff.

Now if your getting dropouts from anything other than the HDMI port, then I would agree something else is amiss. (e.g. bad wiring, bad box, bad station feed, even bad TV set)And I agree 100% with your statement. I'm having a CableCARD installed in my TV this Friday. It will be interesting to see what (if any) improvements occur.

I'm having a CableCARD installed in my TV this Friday. It will be interesting to see what (if any) improvements occur.

Best of luck. Keep us posted on the results.

What exactly is a cable card?

What exactly is a cable card?
Effectively the same thing as an access card for D*. It allows your QAM tuner equipment to tune in encrypted QAM channels. The tuned channels are still encrypted, but the decoding algorithim is passed to the cablecard for verification for decryption status from the cable co.
It's the encryption decoding guts of a STB, but you use your own tuner, electronics, and anything else that would effectively be used to view the picture. It only handles the decryption within the stream and does no tuning.
Current cablecard hardware in TV sets only allows for one way communication, so two way communication for IPG and other interactive services are not available.

vegggas

I've just begun using the SA8300HD with a new projector via HDMI.

However I was thinking of also running a wire from the 8300 to a regular (non-HD) CRT tv in another room -- perhaps through a RCA outs, or a coaxial cable.

Questions:

1) What's the general wisdom on using multiple display devices? Will the signal be compromised -- that is, will my HDMI signal become weaker for it?

2) Are the RCA outs considered better than a coaxial out? I'd rather use a coax so as to send video and audio together, but will I be missing much by not going through RCA cables?

3) Are there any issues with sending signals from this box to a non-HD TV? Will I need to adjust the output on the 8300 to a certain mode?

Thanks for any light you can shed.

I've just begun using the SA8300HD with a new projector via HDMI.

However I was thinking of also running a wire from the 8300 to a regular (non-HD) CRT tv in another room -- perhaps through a RCA outs, or a coaxial cable.

Questions:

1) What's the general wisdom on using multiple display devices? Will the signal be compromised -- that is, will my HDMI signal become weaker for it?

I'm not an expert, but I don't believe so. I have multiple connections on mine and I don't see any loss in pq.

2) Are the RCA outs considered better than a coaxial out? I'd rather use a coax so as to send video and audio together, but will I be missing much by not going through RCA cables?

RCA is better. Component would be even better. My understanding that HDMI may not work quite as well with projection as it does with LCD or CRT.

3) Are there any issues with sending signals from this box to a non-HD TV? Will I need to adjust the output on the 8300 to a certain mode?

There shouldn't be any issues. Just make sure you have your set up to include 480i as well as 1080i and/or 720p.

Thanks much hookbill ...

There shouldn't be any issues. Just make sure you have your set up to include 480i as well as 1080i and/or 720p.

Because three good questions deserve two more...

1) Can the 8300 send a 720p signal to my HD projector while simultaneously sending a 480i signal to my CRT? Or, alternatively, when both display devices are being used at once, should I just select a 480i signal and it will send that to both the projector and CRT?

2) Regarding captured video stored on the 8300HD. I've got a bunch of programs saved there. Are there any issues about sending this material to the CRT tv? Are the programs captured under a specific setting (say, 720p) which then would prove not transferrable to a CRT tv? Or are they captured in some kind of universal format that can then be sent to a display device in whatever mode (480i, 720p, etc.) that is desired?

Sorry about all the questions. As usual, I have half an idea of what's going on, but obviously need some fundamental blank spots filled in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnfromQueensNY
2) Are the RCA outs considered better than a coaxial out? I'd rather use a coax so as to send video and audio together, but will I be missing much by not going through RCA cables?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hookbill
RCA is better. Component would be even better. My understanding that HDMI may not work quite as well with projection as it does with LCD or CRT.

I'd like to add a couple of things to that:

1) You left out S-Video, which would be better than RCA (composite) but below component.

2) From a quality standpoint DVI/HDMI will usually be better than component (despite the display technology) BUT there have been lots of issues with the HDCP handshake with some displays. The better PQ may not be worth the hassle (particularly if there is not a huge difference in PQ).

1) Can the 8300 send a 720p signal to my HD projector while simultaneously sending a 480i signal to my CRT? Or, alternatively, when both display devices are being used at once, should I just select a 480i signal and it will send that to both the projector and CRT?

Yes. The RF (coax), composite (RCA), and S-video outputs are at 480i, no matter what is being sent out on the component & HDMI outputs.

2) Regarding captured video stored on the 8300HD. I've got a bunch of programs saved there. Are there any issues about sending this material to the CRT tv? Are the programs captured under a specific setting (say, 720p) which then would prove not transferrable to a CRT tv? Or are they captured in some kind of universal format that can then be sent to a display device in whatever mode (480i, 720p, etc.) that is desired?


Same story: 720p and 1080i recordings all come out 480i on the RF, composite and S-Video outputs.

Notes:

A) S-Video & composite outputs are used for the "Copy to VCR" function. So, when you use that function the "regular" programming is interrupted. Otherwise, these outputs have same material as component/HDMI/RF.

B) RF output might be a good choice for what you are trying to do. It is fixed (I think) at channel 3 and includes stereo audio. I use it for a "poor mans MR" system.

C) The downconversion process (going from 720p or 1080i to 480i SD) is not too great. While broadcast SD TV normally has 330 lines vertical resolution and DVDs have 540 lines, the composite, S-Video have around 250 (about standard VHS quality). I've checked this out using HDNet test patterns.

Thanks a lot Dave, for that detailed response.

I've noticed over the past couple of days that when I first turn on my 8300 it's been going to channel 3. It always use to start wherever I left it unless the cable company had a message it wanted everyone to see.

I don't have a problem with that, but that channel usually has local news. Twice I've tried to rewind to catch something I missed and it won't work. It seems that I have to change channels or at least activate pip to get it to start recording.

This may be a local issue, but I don't understand why it wouldn't be recording the channel it is on.

Cant you choose which channel to "wake" to?

My sa8300hd does!

Anyhow

Martin

A) S-Video & composite outputs are used for the "Copy to VCR" function. So, when you use that function the "regular" programming is interrupted. Otherwise, these outputs have same material as component/HDMI/RF.

Sorry if I don't do this right since this is my very first post. What does it mean that the regular programming is interrupted? The reason I'm asking is that I'm planning to hook up my 8300HD to (1) my AE700 (either via HDMI or component) for HD & (2) my crt SDTV to either s-video or rf, depending on the answer. Also, I've read elsewhere complaints about running the component HD connections from the 8300HD through an AV receiver (the suggestion is that the signal is weak and needs amplification if not hooked up directly to a display). Anyone else doing this with or without problems? The answer to that may help me choose between HDMI or component for the AE700. I'd prefer component to avoid the costs & audio problems I might face with the 8300 and a long cable run to the Panny, but in order to use component I'd need to use the video switching from my AV receiver since my best output from my DVD player is component and the Panny only has 1 component input and 1 HDMI input. Thanks.

avkarma,

I thought that the statement you quoted was clear by itself - but I'll expand a bit:

The composite, S-VHS and RF outputs will normally have the same program on that you are watching on the component and/or HDMI outputs. The 8300HD does have a "Copy to VCR" function, where you can select any recorded program and save it on a VCR or DVD through the composite or S-VHS output. So, when you select this function these two outputs will now have the recording being saved.

RE: Going through the AE700 AV Receiver - I am not familiar with that particular receiver, but, in general, concerns are generally about bandwidth in the receiver, not signal level. I'll leave more specific comments to others who have specific knowledge of your receiver.

Thanks Dave. I'm in the middle of construction and I'm trying to configure my setup along the way. I inferred from your original post that the output ports do not normally output simultaneously and that I'd need to utilize the record to VCR function in order to use the 2d display (i.e., my non-HD CRT). I now infer from your last post that the output ports DO normally output the same signal simultaneously and, if that's correct, I don't need to utilize the record to VCR function. BTW, my AV receiver is a JVC9010VBK. The AE700 is the FP (HD-HDCP). If anyone has further insight, including as to the AV switching issue, I'd appreciate it. Also, can someone clarify for me whether the audio outputs on the 8300HD work simultaneously and that the digitial audio output can handle audio signals from analog channels? I've seen conflicting posts and reports on this. Thanks again.

I've noticed over the past couple of days that when I first turn on my 8300 it's been going to channel 3. It always use to start wherever I left it unless the cable company had a message it wanted everyone to see.

I don't have a problem with that, but that channel usually has local news. Twice I've tried to rewind to catch something I missed and it won't work. It seems that I have to change channels or at least activate pip to get it to start recording.

This may be a local issue, but I don't understand why it wouldn't be recording the channel it is on.

You can set the “Power on” channel in the setup menu. However, if you are watching a recorded program and you turn the cable box off it will revert back to channel 3 because you were not watching a specific channel when you turned it off.

You can set the “Power on” channel in the setup menu. However, if you are watching a recorded program and you turn the cable box off it will revert back to channel 3 because you were not watching a specific channel when you turned it off.

I think you guys are missing the point. I don't care what channel comes on, it's just that when it does come on it doesn't start recording until I change a channel.

That I just don't understand. It's suppose to be recording from the time you turn it on and it doesn't.

Cablevision pushed out SARA 1.88.6.2 last night. You should all call you cable companies and demand this update. It fixes the kick out to live bug, adds a 4th FF and REW speed of 128x, and adds a start from beginning option for recordings in progress. It's also supposed to replace the auto off feature with a hard drive spin down.

You can set the “Power on” channel in the setup menu. However, if you are watching a recorded program and you turn the cable box off it will revert back to channel 3 because you were not watching a specific channel when you turned it off.

Is that a different firmware version or different software altogether? Mine does not revert back to channel 3. It stays in recroded program (DVR channel) and I can hit play to continue watch the recorded program.

Cablevision pushed out SARA 1.88.6.2 last night. You should all call you cable companies and demand this update. It fixes the kick out to live bug, adds a 4th FF and REW speed of 128x, and adds a start from beginning option for recordings in progress. It's also supposed to replace the auto off feature with a hard drive spin down.

Hmmm, I thought so...this morning when I powered up I saw a message relating to my external hard drive (which made me nervous :)). The external was fine and all of the content was still there so then I figured they must have upgraded the firmware and forced a restart.

The new features are a welcome addition (although 128x, wow, i thought the previous max was fast!). The hard drive spinning down instead of the box shutting down seems like a compromise, but may have some funky side effects; will have to see how it works in practice. Will you have to shutdown and restart to get it to start buffering the live program or simply change channels?

Sheesh, why are they so concerned with the hard drive spinning and continually recording, my computers do it all the time :)

There is limited life span for hard drives. Unless you use a hard driver designed for servers, you will see hard drive failure in 3~5 years. Shuting down hard drive can extend its life span. I have doubts on the new spin down feature as well. Spin down hard drive means the box no longer can buffer the channels currently tuned to. It's just as good as shut the box down. Also, it takes a few seconds to spin up the drive for new recordings once it is spined down.

I keep a good habit of turning off the STB when not watching. Hopefully, this will last the hard drive longer.

Cablevision pushed out SARA 1.88.6.2 last night. You should all call you cable companies and demand this update. It fixes the kick out to live bug, adds a 4th FF and REW speed of 128x, and adds a start from beginning option for recordings in progress. It's also supposed to replace the auto off feature with a hard drive spin down.

It may not be compatible to Adelphia's system so "demanding" it will not work. :)

It may not be compatible to Adelphia's system so "demanding" it will not work. :)

If that's the case then to bad for you that Cablevision wasn't the winner in the bid for Adelphia. :D

If that's the case then to bad for you that Cablevision wasn't the winner in the bid for Adelphia. :D


Really, it's just not that simple. Even in Cablevisions system not everybody everywhere runs the same SARA. Remember, most of these companies bought cable systems that belonged to other companies. So they all have different equipment and capabilities. There may be an Adelphia company that is running a higher version of SARA then what you currently have.

Even in Cablevisions system not everybody everywhere runs the same SARA.

What's your source for that? We are 3,000,000 subscribers all in the same geographical location, all have access to the SA8300, and people from various systems are all confirming on our Yahoo forum that they got the DVR update this morning including Cablevision's EVP in charge of engineering. You must know more about CV then he does.

RemyM,

What Yahoo group are you talking about? I've been active in both the Explorer_8000 and Explorer_8300 groups and there has been no report there about this version (let alone any Quote from Cablevision's EVP). I'd just like to know if I am missing a forum.

What Hookbill is pointing out is that there are a lot of system compatability issues that an individual cable system has to (or should) resolve before rolling out a new version of SARA. As most existing individual cable systems were built by different companies (some "mom & pop") at different times it is nearly impossible for an national company, like Cablevision, to roll out a brand new (never been seen before) version in all of their systems at one time.

They've been testing it for some time now, and yes, it was pushed out to all Cablevision DVRs. The group you're looking for is cablevision_digital.

RemyM,

What Yahoo group are you talking about? I've been active in both the Explorer_8000 and Explorer_8300 groups and there has been no report there about this version (let alone any Quote from Cablevision's EVP). I'd just like to know if I am missing a forum.

What Hookbill is pointing out is that there are a lot of system compatability issues that an individual cable system has to (or should) resolve before rolling out a new version of SARA. As most existing individual cable systems were built by different companies (some "mom & pop") at different times it is nearly impossible for an national company, like Cablevision, to roll out a brand new (never been seen before) version in all of their systems at one time.

It's a Cablevision specific group http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/cablevision_digital/
Wilt Hildenbrand is the CV EVP.
Cablevision built almost all of their systems. Even ones they did not initially build have been upgraded by them. They haven't added a new system in many years. Cablevision is not national, it only serves the NYC metropolitan area.
And yes, they rolled out the new DVR SARA version on all systems this morning.

Thanks for the link. From that group it looks like there are problems. (One reason for a phased roll-out).

Isn't Cablevision the wonderful company that first brought us, then took away "Zoom"? Also the company that spent millions to kill the NYC stadium?

Thanks for the link. From that group it looks like there are problems. (One reason for a phased roll-out).

Isn't Cablevision the wonderful company that first brought us, then took away "Zoom"? Also the company that spent millions to kill the NYC stadium?More problems fixed than created for sure based on my experience so far. Not sure what to make of your last comments, but if you want to know more about the latest SA DVR bugfixes feel free to ask.

What are the problems being reported? I'm waiting for membership to that forum...

So far the only issues I'm aware of are erasing programs after "copying to VCR" and nobody seems to have successfully used the front A/V inputs.

Issues fixed include the "boot to live" issue (my biggest gripe), start recordings currently in progress from beginning (another major issue) , added 128X FF and RW, improved pause behavior (screensaver) and Hard Drive spindown instead of shutdown.

Thanks for the link. From that group it looks like there are problems. (One reason for a phased roll-out).

Where are you seeing that? Also, it doesn't appear to be a phased roll-out.

Some problems with the actual push for some people, but as far as the SARA update, it's great. Fixing kicked to live, 4th FF/RW and start from beginning is a quantum leap.

I saw the one bug with the copy to VCR thing, but that's relatively minor.

You're right - it does not appear to be a phased roll-out. Besides the copy to VCR thing, there were also some reports of 8300s not working (at least that's what appeared to be going on - Yahoo forums aren't as easy to navigate as the AVS forum - unless you subscribe and get the e-mails). I was suggesting that problems are less of a surprise when there is a phased roll-out.

YES: I'd be VERY happy to put up with the copy to VCR problem (at least as I understand it) in exchange for "Kick to Live" and the 4th FF/RW. I hope our local TW system will be able to move to this soon.

There is a better, complete version of SA code coming out this summer. This newer code has all these features plus others and addresses many other problems, especially those seen during forced installation. It is also much more compatible with the many different cable systems and will have far less problems during installation. Many of the top Cable co's will wait until the final released version is available before making a drastic jump to modifiy existing code to get the features out.
The version released recently was a modified version of DVR 1.4 code that most of us already have. The newer version will be DVR 1.5 based on a new build that incorporates these features into the OS level, instead of using precious memory as additional resources (means lowered pq on 8000HD, and minor differences in 8300HD) and is backward compatible with all SA DVR's.
DVR 1.5 should also have full 1394 support and completed HDCP implementation. Those systems getting the latest DVR 1.4 codeset, will probably be the last to get the newest DVR 1.5, and vice-versa, due to rollout schedules within companies (i.e. usually 3-6 months between updates).


vegggas

Interesting, thanks for that. I'm just happy to have the main bugs fixed for now, whatever else they have in the works doesn't bother me too much if I have to wait 3-6 months. Cablevision's deployment of this patch didn't seem too drastic to me and others who are enjoying the improved functionality.

sorry, i was trying to search, accidently put it in the quick reply box. Continue your normal conversation.

ITGuy72,

The 'recording start from the beginning bug'... is that when you have been watching the same channel your about to record, and it's starts recording from way back, and not the time you actually chose?

i've noticed that when i choose to start recording in 5 minutes (by hitting record and change the start time), when it finally starts recording it, it starts it from way in the past (where it was when you first switched to that channel)

No, I was referring to watching a currently in progress recording from the beginning. Before there was no 'start from beginning' option and you had to rewind back to the start. Then when the end time comes around the DVR would dump you out to live TV and you'd have to find your place over again. This issue has been fixed.