I sure hope Adelphia comes out with the fix soon. Actually, I'd be happy if it comes out during the summer as Veggas indicated, so that its in place for the fall tv season.

DN

I set my 8300HD to record a program at 9pm last night a few days ago, I accepted all the confirmations and the program showed up in scheduled to record.

The guide showed a red bar for that time period etc. I got home late last night and sat to watch only to discover that my program had not been recorded.

I went to scheduled programs and low and behold the program, whose time had already passed, was still in the scheduled to record list. I selected it to look at the recording parameters and it quickly disappeared from the list.

I had heard in one of the forums or threads regarding a "record all episodes" bug.

Anyone know what may have happened in my case?

TVJazzman

I set my 8300HD to record a program at 9pm last night a few days ago, I accepted all the confirmations and the program showed up in scheduled to record.

The guide showed a red bar for that time period etc. I got home late last night and sat to watch only to discover that my program had not been recorded.

I went to scheduled programs and low and behold the program, whose time had already passed, was still in the scheduled to record list. I selected it to look at the recording parameters and it quickly disappeared from the list.

I had heard in one of the forums or threads regarding a "record all episodes" bug.

Anyone know what may have happened in my case?

TVJazzman

I don't know if this is any conciliation to you, but if I had a 1.00 for every time that has happened to me over the past year, well, I'd have at least a hundred bucks. :)

Usually it's a result of record all episodes, any time and another 2 shows recording at the same time. However, I will state with great certainty that this has happened to me for absolutely no reason whats so ever.

My opinion is that the 8300 is not the best dvr in the world and it is buggy.

But then again for 8 bucks a month, you kind of get what you pay for. :)

I don't know if this is any conciliation to you, but if I had a 1.00 for every time that has happened to me over the past year, well, I'd have at least a hundred bucks. :)

Usually it's a result of record all episodes, any time and another 2 shows recording at the same time. However, I will state with great certainty that this has happened to me for absolutely no reason whats so ever.

My opinion is that the 8300 is not the best dvr in the world and it is buggy.

But then again for 8 bucks a month, you kind of get what you pay for. :)


Thanks, at least I'll plan accordingly....

Like alternative programming or a backup recording somewhere else.

Thanks

TVJazzman

tvjazzman,

Cablevision's version somehow introduced a bug into the DVR where it's just not recording many shows at the scheduled time.

They are working at it, but we are all experiencing it and it really is a MAJOR problem right now.

Lex,

I was just going to PM you to find out how your version of software was working these days, but I guess I've got my answer. :)

As much as I'd like the fixes for the Start From Beginning and Kick out To Live problems, I'll stick with my current software. I've had my 8300 now since Dec and have yet to miss one scheduled recording that I couldn't trace to an IPG or operator error, including inadvertently having 3 or more recordings scheduled for the same slot, knock on wood.

tvjazzman,

Cablevision's version somehow introduced a bug into the DVR where it's just not recording many shows at the scheduled time.

They are working at it, but we are all experiencing it and it really is a MAJOR problem right now.


Nice to know I'm not alone, that's a real help right there... I actually consult for Cab levision in their HD area and I might as well be in the Artic. I can't ever get a knowledgable answer from anyone and, I mention everytime, that I work for the Company....
'
Thanks again...

Lex,

As much as I'd like the fixes for the Start From Beginning and Kick out To Live problems, I'll stick with my current software. I've had my 8300 now since Dec and have yet to miss one scheduled recording that I couldn't trace to an IPG or operator error, including inadvertently having 3 or more recordings scheduled for the same slot, knock on wood.

We all compare notes on the yahoo forum, but no one has come up with any good guess as to why it drops some shows and records others.

I don't think it's necessarily to do with the SARA that fixed kicked to live.

Cablevision is working on their own UI and it seems as if it's that upgrade that is more responsible for the problem then it is the SARA upgrade. Seems like maybe the IPG isn't properly communicating with the SA software.

Just some conjecture on my part, but I think you guys will all be fine when you get the SARA update that we got.

Just got 1.88.11.2 here and that's supposed to fix the missed recording issue. I sure hope it does.

Did your previous version have poor PQ for copy to vcr? If so, does this version improve the PQ?

Don

Just got 1.88.11.2 here and that's supposed to fix the missed recording issue. I sure hope it does.

Let us know. I doubt I'll be getting any updates soon what with TimeWarner's buy out of Adelphia in my area.

Let us know. I doubt I'll be getting any updates soon what with TimeWarner's buy out of Adelphia in my area.


Update for Cablevision in Rockland, I (we) no longer are having issues with missed recordings, and kicked out to Live, but my copy to VCR quality is suspect and, I have a major hum in my left channel of output 2 (copy to VCR). Guess I'll return it for another, and of course lose my recordings I wanted to preserve...

Still, cheap for the price....

We just got our first SARA software update since April here in TWC Rochester and we were suppose to be a test bed for SA getting a lot of new releases -- HUH. We just got version 1.87.16.109 and I was wondering if anyone knows what is in this version? I know it doesn't contain any of the really new features we want (skip to live bug, etc...). I also wondered if anyone knows of any problems I should watch for as well like missed recordings or???

my 8300 will skip to live every hour. say i was watching a show at 8:00 and had it paused for 10 minutes at 9:00 if i havent caught back up it will switch over to live tv. big pain in the butt.

Is firewire active yet on anyone's 8300HD?

not on mine

that is uncool


Martin

It looks like SA left out the most useful Tivo function, skipping commercials.
Is there a hack to do this?
Also, another annoying thing is that you can't tell how far you are into a program, or if you pause a program, there's no way to know how far you were into it if you want to continue it later. Any ideas on this?

Hit FF 3 times back 10 twice.
There is a progress bar.

What do you mean hack? You don't own the equipment.

Hit FF 3 times back 10 twice.
There is a progress bar.

What do you mean hack? You don't own the equipment.

Sorry, wrong choice of words.
I meant "modify its behavior." ;)

I know about the progress bar, but I wish it had a more DVD-like function to tell you the minutes and seconds into the program.

This has been discussed a number of times, but it's really very simple; return the 8300, cancel your cable service, get DirecTV, order the Tivo HD DVR, then do the hack. :) :D :)

Seriously, I really feel sorry for those of you who simply can't FF through a commercial without the Tivo 30-second hack (and it is a hack, not a feature). FF2 goes thru commercials quite fast (FF3 a lot faster) and is easy enough to stop near the right point. Then, the replay button will backup 8 seconds. This is as good as it gets because the entertainment industry will not allow a 30-second skip to be designed in and I believe there are still some open lawsuits or something on this subject.

There are no bookmarks or other methods of returning to a previous location. You either finish watching once you start or FF to the point where you stopped, though if you simply switch channels for a while and come back to the DVR channel, all you have to do is hit Play and you will start where you left off.

My status bar tells me I stopped at 0 hr 5 min with 55 min left. For me, that is simply too much info to waste my time remembering, so I simply FF when needed and don't worry about it. DVD-like info would be nice, but I haven't seen any hint that such info will be included in a future software upgrade. I don't know how hard it would be to add somethng like 5 minute ticks to the status bar to help with the FF.

It looks like SA left out the most useful Tivo function, skipping commercials.
Is there a hack to do this?
Crystle ball says there won't be any 30 second skip function on any updateable device by 2007. The feature is being removed from new devices as we speak. Worse yet, Tivo will be inserting ads while you fast forward, and there will be programs that send flags that don't allow fast forward within the program, much like some DVD's previews and warning screens.


Also, another annoying thing is that you can't tell how far you are into a program, or if you pause a program, there's no way to know how far you were into it if you want to continue it later. Any ideas on this?
Yeah, Press the the big STOP button. Tells you everything you need to know. You wouldn't Pause a VCR while you went out and bought a paper or something, would you? Stop that sucker! Also, at any point of any interaction, the progress bar comes up and gives you a visual marker as to where you are within the program. I have NEVER paused or stopped a DVD and noted the time, to go back and view it later at that exact point. I FF to the last place I remember. Come to think of it, I'm not even sure HOW to view the time elasped
or time remaining on my DVD players, cause it's not important enough to even bother.
I'm with Dave - Go spend your inheritance on HD-Tivo and equipment and then buy new equipment every year as the technology improves. Just be sure to read those related threads for issues too! We will blissfully swap out our current DVR for the Multi-Room version, and then the Home-Media version with DVD burner, etc, all for free.

vegggas

I doubt that we will get dvd burner versions/home media servers etc without paying extra for it (i.e. more than the current $9.95 DVR fee). And with the cable bill as a whole constantly increasing, I don't consider cable to be free by any stretch of the imagination.

Hit FF 3 times back 10 twice.
There is a progress bar.

What do you mean hack? You don't own the equipment.

Do you mean the "skip back" (the curly back arrow) button? I don't see a back 10 button.
Anyway this is not that useful, makes for very jerky viewing. :confused:

I doubt that we will get dvd burner versions/home media servers etc without paying extra for it (i.e. more than the current $9.95 DVR fee). And with the cable bill as a whole constantly increasing, I don't consider cable to be free by any stretch of the imagination.

Well, SBC is launching IP TV service soon in California. Hopefully they will give the cable and satellite companies a run for their money!

Personally I like DirecTV when I had it except, and this is a big except, for the drop-outs when I get "searching for signal." At first I thought this was my installation but my friend who lives within 5 miles from me has the same exact problem, and even with extensive calibration we would lose signal. We're in LA so that may have something to do with it.
Anyway, I like digital cable now since they bundled internet, TV, and phone to my house.

Do you mean the "skip back" (the curly back arrow) button? I don't see a back 10 button.
Anyway this is not that useful, makes for very jerky viewing. :confused:
Yes, that button.
I thought the objective was "skipping commercials".

Depending on how you count, that button backs up 8-10 seconds. If you are getting "jerky viewing", it sounds like you are over-shooting by quite a bit and pressing the Replay button more than once. If you are using FF3 (30x), trying using FF2 (10x) for a while and see if that doesn't help zero in a bit better and lessen the over-shoot.

On a side note, it doesn't really matter if it's useful or not, it's the only game in town. As people buy/get new Tivo's (that can't be hacked with a 30-second skip), they will find out just how useful it will become. It's not a matter of SA not wanting to add that feature, it's a matter of bending to pressure from the MPAA, remember, they control the copy flags and other things. As vegggas said, if you think it's bad now, just wait until all your glorious DVD features are added to the DVR and you can't even FF anymore. Then come back and complain about how useless the Replay/FF buttons were. :)

I still remember the "good old days" when I could simply pop in a DVD and immediately watch a movie. :D
Now there seems to be so many flags that I preload my DVD(s) by popping them in while I'm still watching TV, then switch over at some later time after the previews are over. There are some hacks, but for the most part, it's here to stay.
As for 30 scond skip on DVR's - It will be gone within 6-12 months or sooner on any recent DVR that has to communicate and get updated. It is a feature that is costing advertisers multiple millions of dollars in losses, as reported by the data collected from Tivo units is sold to advertisers. - Yes, Your Tivo recording data is collected, sold and used by advertisers.
Tivo's is banking on it's most useful function will be the ability to set up a recording by actually watching the previews and selecting "record this program when it airs". Not sure of the wording, but when a future program is advertised as a snippit, you can tell Tivo to record it, and it will. That's what I'd like to see on cable DVR's!

vegggas

Tivo's is banking on it's most useful function will be the ability to set up a recording by actually watching the previews and selecting "record this program when it airs". Not sure of the wording, but when a future program is advertised as a snippit, you can tell Tivo to record it, and it will. That's what I'd like to see on cable DVR's!

vegggas

That TiVo function has been on it for years, and even if your using the 30 sec skip and tick you could always back up if you caught a glimpse of something you like.

Anyway the 8300 is not TiVo, it's never going to be TiVo. It is a fairly decent DVR for the money. I think if there were any one feature that really needs to be improved on the 8300 it is the "Search" feature, which as it stands right now is not very helpful.

The search feature is a function of the guide in use for each cable system, and not the actual DVR. The DVR is capable of doing keyword search, if the guide is able to provide the data. New IPG's (Guides) are being released soon, with many advanced features, such as advanced search, etc.

vegggas

I posted this question in another thread but got no response. Can anyone help me?

Need Help...

Okay. So I just hooked up a SONY DVD recorder to my HD8300. Now I know that I can copy shows I've recorded on the hard disk with Output 2 (Copy to VCR function), but it only has composite out and the downrezing is making the picture look horrible, ewven worse than if I record directly to my VCR. Even my analog channels suffer and I've got the DVD recorder on the highest quality setting. Even the passthrough signal looks weak.

I'm still using the component out to my plasma since HDMI still has a few bugs in it and my plasma, a Fujitsu P50 is over 2.5 years old. It does support HDCP, but...

Of course, the S-Video is inactive unless I change the mode to SDTV. Don't want to have to do that every time.

Any other options to getting a good picture on DVD from the 8300HD? I'm not looking for a hack or anything. I was looking more for like being able to use the Copy to VCR function with the component out or S-Video out?

I know I could always get an external SATA drive, but that is merely postponing the inevitability of needing to archive.

Thanks for any advice.

David

Are you sure S-video is inactive? I use it on my 8300HD for TV split screen.

If you go to the setup screens and look at signal strength, what is an acceptable level with the 8300? I have both an 8000 and an 8300 and the 8000 shows -2db and the 8300 shows -20db. I have switched places with the two boxes with the same result. Thinking the 8300 box was the culprit, I archived everything on it and took it in and got a replacement. When I got home, I have the same result.

Are you sure S-video is inactive? I use it on my 8300HD for TV split screen. No, I'm not sure. I'll check, thanks. That will at least let me record live programs with a little better quality. But what about Copy to VCR? Is that only available for the composite out?

When the copy starts the s-video output switches to the same output as the VCR composite output.

Don

On a side note, it doesn't really matter if it's useful or not, it's the only game in town. As people buy/get new Tivo's (that can't be hacked with a 30-second skip), they will find out just how useful it will become. It's not a matter of SA not wanting to add that feature, it's a matter of bending to pressure from the MPAA, remember, they control the copy flags and other things. As vegggas said, if you think it's bad now, just wait until all your glorious DVD features are added to the DVR and you can't even FF anymore. Then come back and complain about how useless the Replay/FF buttons were. :)

Yes, usually I'm overshooting and skipping back. It's too bad the MPAA got into this. I remember a VCR from a decade ago that automatically found the beginnings of commercials and skips them :)

Anyway, if they take away the FF, I think that will be the end of DVR. By that time hopefully everyone will be burning onto DVD's which are infinitely more hackable. It would be so nice to be able to dump things to DVD now from the 8300HD, (not via the lame analog replaying feature). I guess if it had that feature the ********** community would grow 10X as fast.

Yeah, I remember those VCRs too, but I just don't think it's that big a deal. I also remember multiple blank spaces that messed it up, nothing is perfect. While it would be nice to simply hit a button one or more times to skip 1-2 minutes worth of commercials, I get by just fine now with FF and rarely even use Replay.

I don't agree that DVRs would fade from use if there is no FF. I would still time-shift everything so I can watch on my schedule, etc., and that is my main use now. Skipping commercials is a nicety, but not a deal-breaker for me. After all, I do watch some commercials now depending on what channel I'm watching.

MarketingProf,
I don't understand why you say that the S-Video out doesn't work (unless to SD). I have Sony DVD recorder and feed it from the SA8300HD S-Video out. It does not work in the "Copy to VCR" mode - perhaps that is your issue. I don't use that mode for just that reason.

Another point though, the HD downconversion is not to good (to either the composite or S-Video out). According to the HDNet test patterns the resolution is around 240 lines (regular VHS resolution).

MarketingProf,
I don't understand why you say that the S-Video out doesn't work (unless to SD). I have Sony DVD recorder and feed it from the SA8300HD S-Video out. It does not work in the "Copy to VCR" mode - perhaps that is your issue. I don't use that mode for just that reason.

Just going by the manual for the 8300HD which states that the S-Video is not active unless you set the mode to SD. But, you and others have actually experienced it active in HD, so that is more trustworthy to me. What I'm trying to avoid is having to use the DVD recorder for live recordings. To me, it is much simpler to let the 8300 record whatever I want, and then copy it to a DVD when it is convenient for me.

For example, I have the 8300 set up to record Soundstage, Songwriters' Circle (CBC in Canada - very good show), and Solos on HDNet (or is it InHD?) since I'm rarely available to watch them when they air. Anyway, some of those performances, but not all, I would like to archive to show certain fellow musicians (and I use the word very loosely) when they visit without keeping my hard drive at a high use capacity. So, after I watch them myself, the ones I'd like to keep for a while I would like to dump to my DVD RW. It seems like a big hassle to have to set up the DVD recorder to record the show live on DVD RW and then erase it if I don't want it when the 8300 is already set up to record it -- just to be able to watch it without tons of smearing, etc.

Another point though, the HD downconversion is not to good (to either the composite or S-Video out). According to the HDNet test patterns the resolution is around 240 lines (regular VHS resolution).

I think that is what I'm saying. I copied an Austin City Limits show from a low def analog PBS channel and the DVD copy was so bad that I erased it. Much worse than what was on the 8300 hard disk and worse than others I had recorded on a standard VCR with a direct cable feed.

I'll try S-Video and see if it improves, but if the quality is this bad then this feature is useless. I may have to resort to a component video switch with two ouputs, but they are not cheap.

Thanks for your help Dave. Thanks also to Don and Gary. I appreciate it.

David

MarketingProf,

First, let me say: Get an external drive! If you want to archive stuff to show off your system, that is the only way to go. I've got a 250GB extenal drive and have some musical (Candide. Jekyl & Hyde) programs stored there (my musical tastes may differ from yours) - one since January.

Second, I don't understand your comments on feeding the DVR recorder with component leads. I haven't heard of any DVD recorders (I am prepared to be corrected) that have component inputs. Even if there was that capability - I'd wonder about the downconversion quality from the 8300HD (could do a simple check by changing set-up to 480p and looking at some 1080i recordings).

I also wonder about signal levels to your box. Scheduling a service call with Time Warner might be a good idea.

Not sure exactly what you are saying, but here's my two cents...
When recording analog signals, the DVR has to ENCODE them to digital, and the process takes a lot out of the signal. Outputting that signal to an archive requires another ENCODE to analog, wich further reduces the quality. On top of that, the signal is SCALED DOWN to VHS resolution of 240 lines from the 480 lines it was encoded to. Finally, the DVD recorder if RE-ENCODING to digital and UPSCALING the low res signal again to burn it to DVD. All that conversion will make any signal look bad.
All other archives will follow a similar pattern of being transcoded and scaled down, which will affect the final quality of the image. Your DVD recorder will not accept digital inputs, so it has to get the scaled down and analog encoded signals. The best archiving source, IMHO would be to playing back the DVR and use the component out set at 480i (480p if your DVD would accept that - unlikely) to keep the resolution at 480 lines instead of scaling to down to 240 lines. Still, the burner is going to transcode the signal to digital for burning.
Try this test first - Archive the same program to both the DVD burner and the VCR to see which looks better. Since the VCR is not transcoding the signal, I bet it will look much better than the DVD burner.

vegggas

Dave and Vegggas,

First, thanks for your insights. Let me try to do a better job at explaining.

Dave...
1. Yes. I will get an external drive. Any recommendations?
2. Of course, no component in on the DVD recorder. Lost my brain for a moment.
3. Signal levels are good. Just checked. The live feed and the 8300 DVR recordings are superb.

Vegggas...
1. I understand all the conversions that are going on and agree.
2. Already did that test and the VCR looked significantly better.

To me, this is annoying. I thought burning the shows to DVD would give me better quality than on the VCR. Although I can transfer my camcorder home movies to DVD, which is a plus and worth part of the price, nonetheless as I see it, it is useless for archiving any feeds form the 8300HD which is the main reason I purchased it. Too bad.

Honestly, all this new technology and my trusty ol' Panny VCR gives me a better picture (BTW, better sound too). Go figure.

Thnaks again.
David

On top of that, the signal is SCALED DOWN to VHS resolution of 240 lines from the 480 lines it was encoded to.

vegggas

Veggas,

Could you clarify: It would appear that you are talking about the number of scan lines - not about the number of vertical lines resolved in the scan line.

All DVD recorders that I know of only record SD (525 interlaced scan lines, with 40 lines lost for vert retrace and another 5 scan lines thrown away in digital format for simplicity in MPEG operation). Now, it so happens that analog VHS recorders, due to bandwidth limitations, only recorded about 240 vertical lines. Broadcast analog TV has the bandwidth for about 330 vertical lines, S-VHS recorders were/are capable of about 400 lines, and DVDs 540 lines. The later generally applies to what the DVD system is capable of - not what you will necessarily get from a DVD recorder with analog input.

In my experience, the 8300HD does output resolution on it's SD inputs roughly equivalent to VHS resolution (240 or so vertical lines.

:confused: Yeh, it's a subject that can be easily confused.

I believe that a lot is lost in going from analog to digital and back again. I, as a rule, don't record analog programs on my 8300. I still have VCRs (4 S-VHS units) for that. If I want it on DVD, then I record directly (from the DVD recorder internal tuner) from analog (still have a AtoD conversion). It isn't just a loss in resolution, but also: non-linearity in tone scale; noise; and (most importantly) compression artifacts.

I think MarketingProf/David's biggest problem is the final A to D conversion and scaling in the DVD unit when trying to burn to DVD. He reports that he has done the comparison and recording with the VCR looks ok. The same recorded signal by the DVD burner looks much worse than the VCR's recorded signal.
Playback could also be affecting the picture quality. The VCR is almost certainly connected via the yellow composite or s-video connection, allowing the display device to filter and smooth the image (moreso on the composite). The DVD may be connected via component and not allowing the display to treat the signal the same way. MarketingProf, can you explain how each is connected and try moving the DVD to a composite input for a test?

davehancock, you are absolutely correct. I was trying to make a point that no matter what the DVR records, the archived output will be of less quality than the original due to archiving politics. The archived signals are downres'ed to accomodate VCR archiving compatibility, not higher resolution recordable devices.

vegggas

MarketingProf, can you explain how each is connected and try moving the DVD to a composite input for a test? vegggas

Well, this will sound a bit convoluted, but here goes. The DVD recorder is a Sony RDR-GX300. The input from the 8300 to the Sony is composite. The only output on the Sony I'm using is a composite via my B&K Ref 50 Controller and then composite to my Fujitsu plasma -- just to access the Sony's menu. I've also got my Panny VCR routed to the Sony DVD recorder using composite.

But, I don't use the Sony DVD recorder to play DVD disks. Instead, I use my trusty Panny RP-56 set to 480p with a high quality component cable going directly to my Fujitsu plasma.

So, I record the disks and then pop them in my Panny and OUCH! I'll try playing it on the Sony through the composite tonight and see what happens.

Thanks again.

Well, this will sound a bit convoluted, but here goes. The DVD recorder is a Sony RDR-GX300. The input from the 8300 to the Sony is composite. The only output on the Sony I'm using is a composite via my B&K Ref 50 Controller and then composite to my Fujitsu plasma -- just to access the Sony's menu. I've also got my Panny VCR routed to the Sony DVD recorder using composite.



I've been following this mini-thread and will briefly chime in. I've had excellent results copying HD and SD programs from my 8300HD (Passport OS) to my Philips DVD recorder. I connect the 8300HD to the recorder with either component or S-Video cables and the recorder to my TV with component cables.

I connect the 8300HD to the recorder with either component or S-Video cables...Did you really mean Component or should this part have been Composite?

]Did you really mean Component or should this part have been Composite?

I do mean Component (my DVD recorder has Component, S-Video and Composite inputs). Since the 8300HD (as configured by TWCNYC) cannot output a 480i signal when any other format is selected and the DVD recorder will not accept 480p, it's necessary to set the 8300HD to output only 480i when I want to use the Component connection to the DVD recorder.

Does the little light on the front of the box display 480i when the output is actually 480p?

[on Passport] I can get the 480i light to light up but it is not very useful. It will display 480i only when first changing to the channel with no recording, no pausing, rewinding, or anything. Anything that uses the buffer then creates a pause and a switch to 480p. I thought I saw a difference, but humans are easily fooled.


v/r,
C-F

Hello, I've had the 8300DVR for a month now, and it's coupled with the Vizio 50" plasma via HDMI. During DVR playback of a lot of SD channels, I get a single line of white noise at the top of the screen. This only happens over HDMI. It looks kinda like an overscan issue. Can the overscan on the 8300 be adjusted?

Also, any way to output 480 i over HDMI?

Thank You!

Hello, I've had the 8300DVR for a month now, and it's coupled with the Vizio 50" plasma via HDMI. During DVR playback of a lot of SD channels, I get a single line of white noise at the top of the screen. This only happens over HDMI. It looks kinda like an overscan issue. Can the overscan on the 8300 be adjusted?
Also, any way to output 480 i over HDMI?
Thank You!
Overscan is a function of the display device. The white noise along the top is actually line 21 containing the closed caption information. Your set is displaying the complete 525 lines instead of the usually only visible 480 lines.

HDMI can display 480i, IF the display device can accept that signal. HDMI connections automatically negotiate what the display can show, and only allow those resolutions, so the Vizio will only allow a 480P over HDMI. Try using component if it's a concern.

vegggas

Overscan is a function of the display device. The white noise along the top is actually line 21 containing the closed caption information. Your set is displaying the complete 525 lines instead of the usually only visible 480 lines.

HDMI can display 480i, IF the display device can accept that signal. HDMI connections automatically negotiate what the display can show, and only allow those resolutions, so the Vizio will only allow a 480P over HDMI. Try using component if it's a concern.

vegggas

Thanks for the reply!

I can't help but think the 8300dvr is at fault, because there are some SD channels that don't display line 21. Also, the behavior is exhibited ONLY through DVR playback. I'd hate to give up the hdmi, as I can definitely see a difference over component. Sure is nice having one cable too!

There are a couple people that can get 480i over hdmi on the vizio. I think it's their provider and firmware. I'm using Time Warner, but in Hawaii, they modify their firmware. :o

Thank You.

Thanks for the reply!

I can't help but think the 8300dvr is at fault, because there are some SD channels that don't display line 21. Also, the behavior is exhibited ONLY through DVR playback. I'd hate to give up the hdmi, as I can definitely see a difference over component. Sure is nice having one cable too!

There are a couple people that can get 480i over hdmi on the vizio. I think it's their provider and firmware. I'm using Time Warner, but in Hawaii, they modify their firmware. :o

Thank You.

For what it's worth, I have an S video hookup in addition to the HDMI. I see zero quality difference on the channels I have difficulty with that are received in 480i. I also have tried receiving these channels in 480p. Again no difference.

I have noticed that certain analog channels are received better then some. For example, FX comes in pretty good. TNT on the other hand is a disaster. A show on Court TV like "Fastlane" where they use a great deal of color in their video looks horrible.

I really think how good the 8300 does in transmitting these signals depends on the quality of signal sent out by the cable company.

On the other hand I have heard people who swear success by swithing to S video.

So who know's what the real answer is?

What worked for me for anaalog is setting the 8300HD to 1080i and 720p only - letting the box do the conversion.

If you go to the setup screens and look at signal strength, what is an acceptable level with the 8300? I have both an 8000 and an 8300 and the 8000 shows -2db and the 8300 shows -20db. I have switched places with the two boxes with the same result. Thinking the 8300 box was the culprit, I archived everything on it and took it in and got a replacement. When I got home, I have the same result.

I was told you want it as close to zero as possible but acceptable range is from -10db to 10db. Anything above or below that is bad and will cause problems. I would suggest you call your cableco and have them come out and add an amplifier to your line. You likely have a bad splitter or your pulling off that one signal to much to lower it that much. One other thing they did for me a few years back was increased the line from the street to the house with a new thicker fiber cable and has much better shielding to maintain the signal strength.

What worked for me for anaalog is setting the 8300HD to 1080i and 720p only - letting the box do the conversion.

Won't you lose your full screen ability with an HD output of an SD source on most panels. That's the only thing holding me back.

If you mean stretch and zoom, no I still get them.

If you mean stretch and zoom, no I still get them.

You can stretch an zoom with the remote on the 8300. But you cannot use the full screen. You probably have bars on the side.

Yes I have bars. So then what exactly is SD full screen on a 16x9 TV?

Yes I have bars. So then what exactly is SD full screen on a 16x9 TV?

If your only outputting 720p or 1080i from your box, most TVs won't stretch a 4:3 image to fullscreen like it will for 480i.

What I meant was the 8300HD remote still does stretch and zoom. I just watch SD 4x3. No burn in to worry about with DLP.

What I meant was the 8300HD remote still does stretch and zoom. I just watch SD 4x3. No burn in to worry about with DLP.

With SD channels my box will only zoom while outputting 720p or 1080i. Zoom 1 cuts off a lot of the picture. There's a stretch option while watching HD though.

What I meant was the 8300HD remote still does stretch and zoom. I just watch SD 4x3. No burn in to worry about with DLP.

Well, It just doesn't utilize the full screen, and I feel that's what I paid for. I want all 16x9 on the screen. However if it doesn't bother you, then that's fine. :)
You should enjoy your television the way you want.

I agree but if you can get a better analog picture by letting the cable box pass through only 1080i and 720p the trade-off may be worth it to some. And you still have the cable remote stretch options even if they are not as good as the TV's.

Can someone clarify for me: Is the HDMI port active depending on the hdtv set you have or the cable company "activating" the ports?

I have a Sony A10 LCD and will have time warner cable withan hd-8300 dvr. Any idea if my hdmi will work?

Can someone clarify for me: Is the HDMI port active depending on the hdtv set you have or the cable company "activating" the ports?

I have a Sony A10 LCD and will have time warner cable withan hd-8300 dvr. Any idea if my hdmi will work?

It depends on what type of software the cable company has enabled in your machine. From what I've seen around the country via this thread I believe most of the cable companies have software that enables the HDMI downloaded.

You may want to check with your cable company first.

There are other issues too:
1) The handshaking between the set and the HDMI enabled device (8300HD).
2) Dolby 5.1 issues if you have a separate surround sound receiver - if the TV tells the 8300 that it is handling the digital audio, then the 8300 won't provide an output to its digital audio out. Some cable systems have implemented a "patch" that allows the user to overide this.

Your Sony should work (issue 1) but it's hard to say about issue 2.

There are other issues too:
2) Dolby 5.1 issues if you have a separate surround sound receiver - if the TV tells the 8300 that it is handling the digital audio, then the 8300 won't provide an output to its digital audio out. Some cable systems have implemented a "patch" that allows the user to overide this.

Your Sony should work (issue 1) but it's hard to say about issue 2.

Wow, I never heard of this issue. I'll take you at your word however, knowledgeable fellow that you are.

All I know is I have separate digital audio out and mine works fine. :)

I was told you want it as close to zero as possible but acceptable range is from -10db to 10db. Anything above or below that is bad and will cause problems. I would suggest you call your cableco and have them come out and add an amplifier to your line. You likely have a bad splitter or your pulling off that one signal to much to lower it that much. One other thing they did for me a few years back was increased the line from the street to the house with a new thicker fiber cable and has much better shielding to maintain the signal strength.

I understand what you are saying ( I already have an amp installed by the cable co.), but my 8000HD gives -3db and I have connected it to several different runs throughout my house. The 8300HD gives -20 in every different location I have tried, even when I tried a different 8300 box I get the same result. Are the acceptable levels that different in the two boxes?

With SD channels my box will only zoom while outputting 720p or 1080i. Zoom 1 cuts off a lot of the picture. There's a stretch option while watching HD though.

I have found this is an issue based on your setups. If you have the setup to fixed (720p or 1080i), "upconvert 1" or "upconvert 2" you get the sttretch and zoom modes. If you use "pass through" for some reason it seems you only get zoom 1 and zoom 2 when viewing an SD channel.

I use "pass through" because my Panasonic PDP does an much better stretching of the image than the SA box.

I understand what you are saying ( I already have an amp installed by the cable co.), but my 8000HD gives -3db and I have connected it to several different runs throughout my house. The 8300HD gives -20 in every different location I have tried, even when I tried a different 8300 box I get the same result. Are the acceptable levels that different in the two boxes?

Keep in mind that that level will vary with different channels - typically those at higher (cable) frequencies will have lower levels. Also, some of your splitters may have a poor high frequency response (made before cable companies started usig higher frequencies).

I do mean Component (my DVD recorder has Component, S-Video and Composite inputs). Since the 8300HD (as configured by TWCNYC) cannot output a 480i signal when any other format is selected and the DVD recorder will not accept 480p, it's necessary to set the 8300HD to output only 480i when I want to use the Component connection to the DVD recorder.

This is a very important part of the thread for those wishing to make backups of HD shows. I have a DVD recorder that accepts component input as well. By setting up the 8300 to output widescreen 480i (YOU MUST SELECT 480I AS THE ONLY OUTPUT RESOLUTIONS!!!, OTHERWISE THE 8300 WILL OUTPUT HD PROGRAMS IN THE BEST POSSIBLE SETTING YOU CHOOSE), I can make a DVD of an HD program in real widescreen with no black bars at the top and bottom, which gives me an "anamorphic" image on the DVD. If your DVD recorder only accepts s-video or composite, you only get a 4x3 image with a letterboxed image in it-played back on a widescreen set you get a pillar boxed widescreen image.

I have found my DVDs of HD programs look as good as commercial DVDs. The only downside is stereo audio only, but if it is originally 5.1, I at least get pro-logic surround when I play it back.

Are not commercial DVDs 480p?

Are not commercial DVDs 480p?

Nope. 480i.

Keep in mind that that level will vary with different channels - typically those at higher (cable) frequencies will have lower levels. Also, some of your splitters may have a poor high frequency response (made before cable companies started usig higher frequencies).

Thanks for the reply, Dave. However, my splitters were added by the cable co themselves and are supposedly the best made.

Also, the signal strength does vary, but only a little among the HD tier. For simplicty let's say I used the 8000 in my living room and went to the setup screens on HBOHD. I would see a -3db signal strength. I then unhook my 8000 and install my 8300 in the same place and on the same channel (this is actuall what I did) and got a -20db reading. Thinking it had to be the box since the 8000 reading was fine, I went to the cable company and got a different 8300, hooked it up in the same place and got SURPRISE! -20db. I then unhooked it and put the 8000 box back and get -3 again. Makes no sense unless the tuner in the 8000 is superior to the 8300 for some reason. There is no doubt the 8300 is a better box overall- heck the pic quality is much better, so the scaler inside must be better, but this is driving me crazy as I experience many more dropouts, etc. with the 8300.

Nope. 480i.

Actually, Manatus, I read a Toshiba paper some years ago that stated the native format of a DVD is 480p and that was their part of their justification for releasing the first 480p players (no down rezzing by the player). Which, infuriated the studios at the time. They thought that was too close to the master copy.

Which, BTW is my reasoning for not buying a HD-DVD player. On anything less than a 60" widescreen set, movies (shot on film) in 480p are too close to call with HD. IMHO, the HD difference is only evident on smaller sets when the material is shot on video, and then, it's noticable. With a good DVD player, I am pretty happy with DVD movies even on my 106" screen.

Of course, you may disagree and there are definitley some exceptions (like most CGI movies for example).

There are other issues too:
1) The handshaking between the set and the HDMI enabled device (8300HD).
2) Dolby 5.1 issues if you have a separate surround sound receiver - if the TV tells the 8300 that it is handling the digital audio, then the 8300 won't provide an output to its digital audio out. Some cable systems have implemented a "patch" that allows the user to overide this.

Your Sony should work (issue 1) but it's hard to say about issue 2.


So in this case, you need to connect your tv's digital out to your receiver to get 5.1 sound, correct?

Seems redundant. I knew I liked DVi better.....

Thanks for the reply, Dave. However, my splitters were added by the cable co themselves and are supposedly the best made.

Also, the signal strength does vary, but only a little among the HD tier. For simplicty let's say I used the 8000 in my living room and went to the setup screens on HBOHD. I would see a -3db signal strength. I then unhook my 8000 and install my 8300 in the same place and on the same channel (this is actuall what I did) and got a -20db reading. Thinking it had to be the box since the 8000 reading was fine, I went to the cable company and got a different 8300, hooked it up in the same place and got SURPRISE! -20db. I then unhooked it and put the 8000 box back and get -3 again. Makes no sense unless the tuner in the 8000 is superior to the 8300 for some reason. There is no doubt the 8300 is a better box overall- heck the pic quality is much better, so the scaler inside must be better, but this is driving me crazy as I experience many more dropouts, etc. with the 8300.

Curious that on the same channel on the same cable line an 8000 reads -3 while a 8300 (on the same channel and line) reads -20? I still think that you need to have the cable tech come out and do what he/she needs to do to get it between -8 and +8 on all HD channels.

So in this case, you need to connect your tv's digital out to your receiver to get 5.1 sound, correct?

Seems redundant. I knew I liked DVi better.....

Sorry, I don't know for sure (it depends if YOUR TV passes the 5.1 from the HDMI on to the receiver. Most do not. :(

Sorry, I don't know for sure (it depends if YOUR TV passes the 5.1 from the HDMI on to the receiver. Most do not. :(


I have never tried my TV, but that's a bummer for HDMI connection (again, I knew I liked DVI).

I have never tried my TV, but that's a bummer for HDMI connection (again, I knew I liked DVI).

I don't think your understanding the point. DVI did not allow 5.1 sound in the first place. HDMI does, IF your television received Dolby 5.1. Most televisions do not so you have to use a digital cable.

I don't think that there are that many cable companies out there that don't provide the digital sound cable option. I could be wrong.

I don't think your understanding the point. DVI did not allow 5.1 sound in the first place. HDMI does, IF your television received Dolby 5.1. Most televisions do not so you have to use a digital cable.

I don't think that there are that many cable companies out there that don't provide the digital sound cable option. I could be wrong.


I found out today that my Philips LCD set in the bedroom accepts the 5.1 along with the video. In fact, the HDMI on this set (about a year old) has no other audio input option.

I am a newbie here and have looked through most of the posts on the SA 8300. I have the 8300 DVR with Charter Cable in So. Cal and don't see any info on how to get digital out and into my computer. I would love to use the Firewire, but I think I read that they are not active. I will have a 30-40 foot run to my PC, so I want to hear what is possible before I start buying cables, etc.
On a side note, we attempted to record a movie from one of the Movies on Demand channels and it said that recording was not allowed on this channel. Is that normal, or is that my cable company?
Thanks

arrowheadbob,

Welcome.

I can't speak for sure, but it is highly unlikely that Fireware is enabled in your area.

RE: Recording from on Demand. It is pretty much normal that you can't record from on Demand. The Scientific Atlanta Documentation states that you can't record Video On Demand programming in its FAQ section (Pg 51 of PDF) of the following document:

http://www.scientificatlanta.com/ExplorerClubGuides/getting_started/4003870.pdf

Dave
Thanks for the welcome and the fast response. I fear you are right re: the firewire. Any other way of getting digital video out and into my PC ?

No. Only way is via SD analog. However, there have been some Firewire rumblings - so there is some hope for the future.

Thanks -
Would this be the best thread to watch for developments in this area?

I apologize if this has been answered, but I haven't seen any final word on this topic..

I have 3 audio settings in my cable set-up. 1) HDMI 2)DD 3) OTHER.

My TV and cable box are hooked up through HDMI and I have a optical cable from the cable box to my receiver.

If I select HDMI, I get sound through my TV, but no DD through my stereo. If I select DD, I don't get any sound through my TV, but get DD through my stereo.

Is there any set-up with HDMI (or with an additional cable) that will give me DD through my stereo and basic sound through the TV at the same time? I would like to avoid having to go through cable set-up every time I want to change the sound. Is this possible?

I seems like someone else had this problem, but I don't remember for sure or what the solution was. Even though it kind of defeats the purpose of HDMI (single cable), you might try connecting a set of regular L-R audio cables from the 8300 to the TV, assuming the TV will recognize them on the HDMI input. If this doesn't work, then you might have to go witha set of Component cables with the audio cables instead of the HDMI cable. I suspect someone else might have a better solution, but I thought I'd throw this out there anyway.

I seems like someone else had this problem, but I don't remember for sure or what the solution was. Even though it kind of defeats the purpose of HDMI (single cable), you might try connecting a set of regular L-R audio cables from the 8300 to the TV, assuming the TV will recognize them on the HDMI input. If this doesn't work, then you might have to go witha set of Component cables with the audio cables instead of the HDMI cable. I suspect someone else might have a better solution, but I thought I'd throw this out there anyway.

I tried adding the L-R audio cables to the TV (in addition to HDMI) and selecting DD in the cable set-up, but still couldn't get audio to the TV. My TV doesn't seem to give me the flexibility of adding a 2nd option for audio. It's also possible I'm doing something wrong here.

I may have to go back to component if this audio thing can't be fixed.

Thanks

Well, it sounds (no pun intended :) ) like you tried it right, I was afraid the TV might not recognize the alternate audio connections. Since you get audio with the HDMI setting, I doubt there is anything that you are doing wrong. I don't know if your TV has some options for you to tell it where to get the audio from, probably not. I'm sure if there is a solution, you'll find out soon enough, so don't give up hope just yet. The one instance I'm thinking of might have been in our local forum and I believe he switched back to Component. It seems like someone may have also tried putting a DVI cable into the loop too (HDMI-DVI-HDMI), but I don't think that worked either because the TV keyed on the connector in the HDMI port.

FWIW, I used to switch back and forth from the TV to my Denon for audio, now I just use the Denon. I got a Harmony remote so my wife doesn't have to fiddle with mulitple remotes and that solved all my problems with her trying to use the Denon, etc. :)

I apologize if this has been answered, but I haven't seen any final word on this topic..

I have 3 audio settings in my cable set-up. 1) HDMI 2)DD 3) OTHER.

My TV and cable box are hooked up through HDMI and I have a optical cable from the cable box to my receiver.

If I select HDMI, I get sound through my TV, but no DD through my stereo. If I select DD, I don't get any sound through my TV, but get DD through my stereo.

Is there any set-up with HDMI (or with an additional cable) that will give me DD through my stereo and basic sound through the TV at the same time? I would like to avoid having to go through cable set-up every time I want to change the sound. Is this possible?

If you happen to have a DVI input on your TV you can use an HDMI to DVI cable from the 8300 to your TV, a pair of analog cables from the 8300 to the audio inputs associated with the DVI input on your TV for stereo sound and the digital cable form the 8300 to your receiver for DD through your HT. The audio setting on my 8300 is set to DD. It works great on my Samsung HLP 5063W.

Unfortunately I only have HDMI inputs on the TV. There are DVI audio inputs on the TV, but no DVI on the cable box.

Try the DVI audio inputs on your TV, they may work.

Try the DVI audio inputs on your TV, they may work.

I tried that as well, without any luck. :(

The set-up guide on SA's site has got a whole page describing this limitation and ends by saying...."depending on you equipment capabilities to select alternate audio sources for input, other configurations may be possible". This is what I can't figure out. BTW - my DVD player is configured the same way and has no problem doing this.

I tried that as well, without any luck. :( Just to clarify, are you saying you tried an HDMI-DVI cable along with L-R audio cables and still didn't get any audio through the TV with the 8300 set to DD?

The set-up guide on SA's site has got a whole page describing this limitation and ends by saying...."depending on you equipment capabilities to select alternate audio sources for input, other configurations may be possible". This is what I can't figure out. BTW - my DVD player is configured the same way and has no problem doing this.This is because equipment makers tend to implement standards slightly differently and this can cause incompatibility problems which is what I think you are up against. Many TVs and receivers provide numerous options for selecting video and audio inputs/outputs. While some TVs may limit audio to HDMI when there is an HDMI cable connected, some allow you to select any connection for audio; digital, L-R audio, etc. This kind of foresight negates the incompatibility problem you are experiencing by giving the user complete control over inputs/outputs.

Then too, the 8300 might not be providing audio when an HDMI cable is connected and the setting is DD. I don't know what version of software you are using, so it could also be that SA changed something in later software to resolve the issue.

I'm still not sure why you want to bother with the TV speakers anyway, unless it's for simplicity for other family members or something. It looks to me like you can either switch to Component for now or just use the receiver speakers if the HMDI PQ is that much better. I know it's frustrating and it should work, but I don't know what else to suggest.

[QUOTE=DoubleDAZ]Just to clarify, are you saying you tried an HDMI-DVI cable along with L-R audio cables and still didn't get any audio through the TV with the 8300 set to DD?
I tried HDMI-HDMI and adding audio L-R to the DVI audio inputs. This didn't work.

The reason I want this flexibility is for my wife and others trying to use the TV. It isn't a huge deal though. I'll probably call Mitsubishi to see if there is an option for audio over-ride on my TV with HDMI, but not counting on it.

My guess is that I should stick with HDMI (and this minor annoyance) vs going back to component because in theory it should produce a better picture....

[QUOTE=DoubleDAZ]Just to clarify, are you saying you tried an HDMI-DVI cable along with L-R audio cables and still didn't get any audio through the TV with the 8300 set to DD?
I tried HDMI-HDMI and adding audio L-R to the DVI audio inputs. This didn't work.That's what I thought you meant. They do make an HDMI-DVI cable (HDMI on one end/DVI on the other) that you might want to try along with the L-R audio cables. If you try this and it still doesn't work, then it's probably because the 8300 is not passing the audio vs your TV being the probem. Since it's the weekend, you may want to give this discussion a couple of more days before you give up, a lot of folks don't post much on weekends.

The reason I want this flexibility is for my wife and others trying to use the TV. It isn't a huge deal though.I had this same issue with my wife and solved it with the Harmony remote; one Activity button turns everything on. I guess you could just get in the habit of resetting it to HDMI before turning it off for the night and it would then be ready for use the next day. That way you'd only have to change it twice a day.

I'll probably call Mitsubishi to see if there is an option for audio over-ride on my TV with HDMI, but not counting on it.I agree, this is a long-shot.

My guess is that I should stick with HDMI (and this minor annoyance) vs going back to component because in theory it should produce a better picture....That all depends on the type TV. If it looks that much better than Component, then by all means stick with it. But, don't stick with HDMI just because it should be a better picture "in theory", that is not always the case, particularly with RPTVs. It's only better if it looks better to you. :)

I am being transferred from New Orleans to Houston and may have to settle for TWC instead of Directv.

Where can I find out spec info about the SA 8300? Mainly want to know if it has optical audio and how big is the hard drive?

Try here..... http://www.scientificatlanta.com/consumers_new/CableBoxes/8300hd.htm

Thanks!

Assuming you are talking about the HD version of the SA8300, most units have optical audio and the HDD is 160G (~20 hrs of HD). There are actually some 14 different models of the 8300 made by SA and there is really no way to tell for sure which model TWC-Houston uses until you contact TWC or get a unit or someone from Houston responds to your post. My guess is it will have optical audio (that's what I use).

Confirm 160 GB and Optical AND Co-ax Digital Audio.

TerryB

Well, I've had this happen before but so far this season I've got partial recordings on at least 5 shows. 3 just last week Surface on 10/10, Comander and Chief on 10/4 and NCIS last night.

I'm beginning to wonder if my Sata hard drive extension is responsible. But then again I've had that for a while and it's just recently started this crap up again.

I haven't had an update on software for a while. Does this end sometime in a future upgrade? I mean this is a decent recorder for the money but it still has to work properly. I can understand programming errors like accidently recording 3 programs at once and nothing getting recorded but this partial recording stuff just pisses me off.

Thankfully I was able to recover each show from bit torrent, but what a PIA.

I've had this happen to me when I was trying to watch (Delayed) a program while it recording and catch up. But there were also errors in the program, so I'm not sure of the cause. When this has happend while not watching, my local stations were having issues with sound stuttering, or PSIP problems.
Come to think of it, this has only happened on local programming and NEVER on other channels. Currently, with network programming schedules jumping around so much, my recorders are as confused as ever. That lame-ass ABC network keeps going over the hour by one minute, so that nobody can record another program in that time-slot - That's a real PITA when doing recordings of ALL episodes and they change programming days to conflict two timeslots (1.5 hours) instead of the one hour slot. :mad:
I've already had to go in and clear out a bunch of scheduled recordings for shows that are no longer there, but the DVR is "Reserving" those timeslots for the next week if they appear. As the shows move around, conflicts and other issues pop up. When the IPG and memory in the DVR get too convoluted, I do a hard reboot and clear everything from memory and redownload the IPG data.
Seems like the networks are trying many things to keep people from timeshifting through their commercials, eh.

vegggas

Seems like the networks are trying many things to keep people from timeshifting through their commercials, eh.

vegggas

Interesting comment: see the following on USA Today:
http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/news/2005-10-11-ad-glut_x.htm
:(

If this keeps up, I'll be able to watch 6 recorded shows in the space of 3 vs the 4.5 I can squeeze in now, 30 minute sitcoms will actually be 15 minutes, and 1 hour dramas simply won't exist anymore. Of course, I suspect John McCain and others might get further involved before it gets that bad. :)

So the way broadcasters respond to the flight of viewers to HBO and the increased capability of those viewers they have left to DVR and skip commercials - IS MORE COMMERCIALS!!

I'd call that DUMB!

I have my 8300HD DVR hooked up to a Panasonic PT-AE900U LCD projector.
With component cables I can output everything.
With HDMI cable I can only output 1080i & 720p. 720p is native res for projector.
I'd rather use HDMI, picture is much better.
If I turn on 480i or 480p I get no picture and the box will crash sometimes.
I would much rather have the $3000 projector do the scaling & de-interlacing than the pos S/A box.
Has any one else had this problem with HDMI?
Oh, I disconnect the component when HDMI is hooked up.
Thanks

HDMI controls in displays are pretty bad. The display does the controlling, not the STB.
Read THIS THREAD AND THE ONE LINKED WITHIN THE FIRST POST (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=595283) to see all the HDMI problems.

vegggas

It's not the display.
The Panasonic AE900U will display 480i & 480p over HDMI with any of the new DVD players with HDMI out.
How do you explain that?
I"m pretty sure it's the 8300HD DVR.

It's not the display.
The Panasonic AE900U will display 480i & 480p over HDMI with any of the new DVD players with HDMI out.
How do you explain that?
I"m pretty sure it's the 8300HD DVR.
So what DVD player are you using that automatically adjusts the native output resolutions between disks via the HDMI display information? None.
Yepper, it's your display!
The display is sending the wrong EDID information.
EDID is basically a plug and play protocol that allows the DISPLAY to tell the SOURCE what resolution it is FORCING the source to set it's output resolution to the correct one for the display.
Unfortunately, your display is trying to force a non-compatible resolution out of the STB when in SD mode. Probably something like 576i or 960i or something more along the PC lines of resolutions that are closer to 480.
Which 480 resolutions did you enable? I guess if you don't want to use the SA's scaler, you didn't use any of the 480P resolutions cause that's scaled... Try both the 480 standard and widescreen modes. Of course, if the Display isn't a POS, then it can scale the component inputs just fine too and the STB can pass those out natively via component.

vegggas

Sorry Vegggas, I meant 480p over HDMI.
The PT-AE900U is an LCD Projector.
It is capable of 480p over HDMI, not 480i.

I enabled everything at first and got no picture at all.
So I started elimating them one by one.
I can only get a signal with 1080i & 720p(which is the native res for the display).
If I enable 480p or 480i output, no picture and the 8300 front panel display oscilates and then the box crashes.
I would like to enable them for s-video or component.
I have the passport software. No 480 stnadard, wide...
I can only turn on/off output modes.
I just figured the Panasonic projector would have a better scaler than the 8300HD DVR.
I can pass all 4 mode over component, buy HDMI gives a much better picture.
Thanks

Sorry Vegggas, I meant 480p over HDMI.
The PT-AE900U is an LCD Projector.
It is capable of 480p over HDMI, not 480i.

I enabled everything at first and got no picture at all.
So I started elimating them one by one.
I can only get a signal with 1080i & 720p(which is the native res for the display).
If I enable 480p or 480i output, no picture and the 8300 front panel display oscilates and then the box crashes.
I would like to enable them for s-video or component.
I have the passport software. No 480 stnadard, wide...
I can only turn on/off output modes.
I just figured the Panasonic projector would have a better scaler than the 8300HD DVR.
I can pass all 4 mode over component, buy HDMI gives a much better picture.
Thanks
I think this is an issue with the projector and the box combination. I have the AE500 and it does not do true 480-it scales it. When I send 480P signals to it via component, the PJ says it is 520p or something like that, but definitely over 500. However, I use component only so I cannot tell you what my PJ would do via HDMI (the AE500 does have DVI with HDCP, but not HDMI).

CSS, take a look at page 11 of the 8300's manual. Mine says this:

on the 8300 HD you may override the automatic selection of audio by the HDMI interface by completing the following steps:

1. Press settings twice on the remote control
2. Press move up and move down to select option Audio: Digital Out
3. Press move right to select Dolby Digital. This setting will send DD audio to the HDMI, Digital Audio Out, and Optical Audio out connectors on the 8300HD.

Note: (buncha stuff skipped that talks about whether your TV can output DD) ... 'Or you can connect your baseband audio outputs to the TV

So it looks like it DOES send the regular left and rights out even when DD is used on the optical settings, mine wont be hooked up till tomorrow (ALSO to a Panasonic AE 900) so I can confirm for you at that time.

Obviously the HDMI in the AE 900 doesnt do anything with the audio portion over HDMI.

Sam

I want to give everyone a heads up to double check your recordings this week. Every recording I had scheduled was either dropped, or scheduled incorrectly this week. I had to redo everything.

For example, if you record both Gray's Anatomy and Desperate Housewives and you go to your guide, you may notice that Despererate Housewives will show scheduled but Gray's Anatomy is not. Once you schedule Gray's Anatomy, DH will no longer show scheduled and you will need to schedule that as well.

I don't know how widespread this is, but I would suggest double checking everything. Your "scheduled" list may have your show but the hour may be incorrect. Look under your "guide" and make sure that the shows you want are the correct shows.

I had Cops dropped completely, along with Survivor. All other shows were an hour off schedule. Easiest way to reschedule is to start with the latest show on whatever network your watching and work back. If you cancel first you will have to go back to the guide each time.

I've seen things like this happen before, but never as bad as this week.

This is the dreaded daylight savings time screwup that happens every spring and fall. Maybe one day they will figure out how to fix it.

TerryB

When I sat down to watch Desperate Housewives this evening at 9:45PM (the show starts at 9PM), I noticed my DVR was not recording.

I went to the SCHEDULED RECORDINGS section in the menu, and I noticed that all of my scheduled recordings had their times changed to AN HOUR EARLIER than the intended times.

I did nothing to to warrant this. This is a glitch in TWC's system!

BTW, luckily Desperate Housewives was a repeat.

Had the problem with west wing. Showed an hour earlier than was suppose to. Must be a daylight savings time thing.

- Is there anyway to go faster than the 'hit fast forward 3x' to go through a recorded program? For something like a football game to get to the last 15 minutes, this really sucks.

- I tagged a few HD channels as my Favorites, how do I get the favorites to come up via the menu/remote?

Sam

Kadath,
1. There is a version of SARA under test which has a 4x FF and RR. It goes through a 2 hr movie in about 30 seconds.

2. Press the FAV button just beneath the arrow section if I remember correctly.

TerryB

HookBill,
After your "heads up" I reveiwed my scheduled recordings and had no problems like I have seen before. I had nothing scheduled for Sunday and assumed that Monday was OK because only Sunday might be screwed, but then I realized this is the first clock change I have undergone with the Beta 1.88.11.2 version I have. Maybe they do have the DST problem figured out.

TerryB

When I sat down to watch Desperate Housewives this evening at 9:45PM (the show starts at 9PM), I noticed my DVR was not recording.

I went to the SCHEDULED RECORDINGS section in the menu, and I noticed that all of my scheduled recordings had their times changed to AN HOUR EARLIER than the intended times.

I did nothing to to warrant this. This is a glitch in TWC's system!

BTW, luckily Desperate Housewives was a repeat.

Not TWC. It happened to me, see a couple of posts above. I'm with Adelphia.

- Is there anyway to go faster than the 'hit fast forward 3x' to go through a recorded program? For something like a football game to get to the last 15 minutes, this really sucks.
So what do you do, record the game and then watch only the last 15 minutes? :)

The only other way is to start watching the recording, hit Stop, select Skip To End from the list of options, and then hit REW 3 times while trying to avoid seeing the score while it's rewinding. This is actually a lot easier than it sounds if you cover all but a small portion of the screen with your hand in front of your eyes. I've become quite adept at covering all but the station logo area in the lower right whenever I join a recording in progress and then get kicked out to live near the end.

Good to know, and I musta missed that button!

Sam

I actually wanted to take a digital photo of the final score. I knew the outcome, wasnt expecting to be surprised =)

Not TWC. It happened to me, see a couple of posts above. I'm with Adelphia.


Well, TWC/Brighthouse system it's all over the road.

Some things are correct - others are off by an hour - so its showing it wants to record Entertainment Tonight and Extra on Tuesday - go figure.

I cannot figure out why some are correct and others are off by an hour.

Well, TWC/Brighthouse system it's all over the road.

Some things are correct - others are off by an hour - so its showing it wants to record Entertainment Tonight and Extra on Tuesday - go figure.

I cannot figure out why some are correct and others are off by an hour.

Curiously enough only primetime shows seemed to be affected. I record a few daytime court shows and those did not need to be rescheduled.

CSS, take a look at page 11 of the 8300's manual. Mine says this:



So it looks like it DOES send the regular left and rights out even when DD is used on the optical settings, mine wont be hooked up till tomorrow (ALSO to a Panasonic AE 900) so I can confirm for you at that time.

Obviously the HDMI in the AE 900 doesnt do anything with the audio portion over HDMI.

Sam

I am trying to do the same thing but on my 8300HD when I hit settings twice all that does is open the settings dialog box then close it down. For more setting I have to hit A on the remote. Any ideas on what to do??

Any idea why the bypass in the menu doesnt seem to do jack?

I found instructions for the Cocast cable box, holding down select and setting it to output 720p. Now EVERYTHING is outputting 720p direct from the cable box, and not seeing 1080i from those channels where its native and 720p from where those are native, like the bypass is supposed to, not sure whats up with that.

Sam

Any idea why the bypass in the menu doesnt seem to do jack?

I found instructions for the Cocast cable box, holding down select and setting it to output 720p. Now EVERYTHING is outputting 720p direct from the cable box, and not seeing 1080i from those channels where its native and 720p from where those are native, like the bypass is supposed to, not sure whats up with that.

Sam


Sounds to me that you need to go back to your set up menu and select 1080i, 720p, and 480i. This is done with the box turned off and pressing info and guide at the same time ON THE BOX. You will see a wizard that will step you through the rest of the operation.

Also, make sure your settings are on either Auto/HDMI (if you have that hook up) or pass through mode.

I received a new SARA update on my new 8300 (this is my second 8300) last night. I'll try to post the software number later. Interestingly, it added the ability to turn the power on via the power button or numerical input. This is probably good for anyone who has the non-dvr version and uses it with a Tivo or other DVR, but didn't really affect me. What was a shock though is that this update also removed the ability for all of the outputs to be hot at the same time. Now, you can either have HDMI or component connection, but not both.- I really hate this as I had the component outs running 480i widescreen so I could dub widescreen movies to my DVD player which has component inputs. Now, I have to disconnect the HDMI to get anything through the component outs.

On a side note, this new box came with a 300GB drive versus the 160 in my other box, pretty much eliminating the need for the external SATA on this one.

The power on with a numerical input has been around for a very long time, on all of SA's Digital STB's (running SARA) and a way for a discrete power on command and to go to a specific channel, or use the last channel in a macro. It can be found in the General Settings; Set: Power-On Keys. You can choose Power or Power and Numeric.
As for the 320GB drive, what makes you think this is the size of your drive? Did you look at the diagnostic pages and see 300GB of free space, or are you looking at something else, like maybe a Maxtor drive ID model number xxx160=80GB, xxx320=160GB, etc.
The analog outputs are SUPPOSED to be turned off when the digital outputs are active. This is a function of the High-bandwidth Data Content Protection (HDCP) protocol. It looks like your cable company is finally starting to get serious about copy protection.

vegggas

The analog outputs are SUPPOSED to be turned off when the digital outputs are active. This is a function of the High-bandwidth Data Content Protection (HDCP) protocol.No ... they're not. And no ... it's not.

Analog outputs are supposed to be turned off for HDCP protected content ... yes. If the 8300HD had an HDMI or DVI input and recieved HDCP protected content on that input ... they would have to disable the analog outputs ... regardless of whether digital outputs are on or off.

However, the content the 8300HD recieves is not protected by HDCP. It's protected by PowerKey. And, while PowerKey (and Motorola's Digicipher) have control bits that can be used by the cable company to disable analog outputs ... they are not supposed to be used via FCC order:
http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/12feb20041500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2004/octqtr/47cfr76.1903.htm
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-03-225A1.pdf

And even if they were being used ... it still wouldn't have anything to do with HDCP.

Scientific Altanta's HDMI/HDCP or analog (but not both at the same time) is an implementation problem. Admittedly it's a limitation shared by some other manufacturers and the limitation may very well be in the underlying chip-set where SciAtl may not be able to do much about it ... but it's not the way it's "supposed" to be at all.

The power on with a numerical input has been around for a very long time, on all of SA's Digital STB's (running SARA) and a way for a discrete power on command and to go to a specific channel, or use the last channel in a macro. It can be found in the General Settings; Set: Power-On Keys. You can choose Power or Power and Numeric.
As for the 320GB drive, what makes you think this is the size of your drive? Did you look at the diagnostic pages and see 300GB of free space, or are you looking at something else, like maybe a Maxtor drive ID model number xxx160=80GB, xxx320=160GB, etc.
The analog outputs are SUPPOSED to be turned off when the digital outputs are active. This is a function of the High-bandwidth Data Content Protection (HDCP) protocol. It looks like your cable company is finally starting to get serious about copy protection.

vegggas
Actually, the power on with numeric may have been implemented a long time ago, but not on my boxes. I know this because my non dvr box (3100HD) has it and I looked for it in the settings menu many times on the 8300. The great thing about the component outs being active with the HDMI was great and I'll miss it, but I can live without it, or I can reach behind and unhook the HDMI when I need to. As for the space on the HDD it shows that much space free, so I'm sure my cable co is respomding to complaints about the amount of HD that can be recorded.

Your statement about the component outs is incorrect. There is no requirement for the components to be disabled when HDMI is active. In fact, my upconverting DVD player with HDCP) keeps both active- the components are limited to 480P, though.

No ... they're not. And no ... it's not.

Analog outputs are supposed to be turned off for HDCP protected content ... yes. If the 8300HD had an HDMI or DVI input and recieved HDCP protected content on that input ... they would have to disable the analog outputs ... regardless of whether digital outputs are on or off.

However, the content the 8300HD recieves is not protected by HDCP. It's protected by PowerKey. And, while PowerKey (and Motorola's Digicipher) have control bits that can be used by the cable company to disable analog outputs ... they are not supposed to be used via FCC order:
http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/12feb20041500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2004/octqtr/47cfr76.1903.htm
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-03-225A1.pdf

And even if they were being used ... it still wouldn't have anything to do with HDCP.

Scientific Altanta's HDMI/HDCP or analog (but not both at the same time) is an implementation problem. Admittedly it's a limitation shared by some other manufacturers and the limitation may very well be in the underlying chip-set where SciAtl may not be able to do much about it ... but it's not the way it's "supposed" to be at all.

i am sure it is not a chipset limitation as they were both active a few days ago. It must be something SA chose to do.

Analog outputs are supposed to be turned off for HDCP protected content ... yes. If the 8300HD had an HDMI or DVI input and recieved HDCP protected content on that input ... they would have to disable the analog outputs ... regardless of whether digital outputs are on or off.

Scientific Altanta's HDMI/HDCP or analog (but not both at the same time) is an implementation problem. Admittedly it's a limitation shared by some other manufacturers and the limitation may very well be in the underlying chip-set where SciAtl may not be able to do much about it ... but it's not the way it's "supposed" to be at all.Your statement about the component outs is incorrect. There is no requirement for the components to be disabled when HDMI is active. In fact, my upconverting DVD player with HDCP) keeps both active- the components are limited to 480P, though.

Having only component inputs, that is what I was afraid of.
I agree that this implementation is baffling.
Posted in the other thread:Post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6515484&&#post6515484)

v/r,
C-F

My 8300 continues to fail to completely record at least one show per week. Last night it decided it only wanted to record 22 minutes of CSI. I'm at 61% disk space, so no, I'm not out of space.

Every week since the new season started this has happened to me. If it wasn't for availabilty through bit torrent, I'd be missing many shows. But why all of a sudden? It never had this problem before.

I keep wondering if my SATA External HD is causing this problem. Vegggas, any ideas?

Having the other outputs disabled when using a digital output is a good thing. My projector does the same thing for it's inputs. If I'm using component 1, component input won't do a thing. It allows the device to focus all of it's visual scaling and signal strength to one input, so it's a good thing in my opinion.

As to the 8300HD doing it, and then not, I have no clue :\

What I want to find out is why it likes to bark about the DVI/HDMI copy protection being blocked now and then.

My 8300 continues to fail to completely record at least one show per week. Last night it decided it only wanted to record 22 minutes of CSI. I'm at 61% disk space, so no, I'm not out of space.

Every week since the new season started this has happened to me. If it wasn't for availabilty through bit torrent, I'd be missing many shows. But why all of a sudden? It never had this problem before.

Found my setup has missed DVRing programs for two separate reasons: With one cable system (RCN) and converter (DCT6412) the firmware requires pressing ENTER for a 'confirm' icon as a last step. I've easy to overlook since this isn't required with my SA8300HD, with Passport, on NYC's TWC.

Record few series, but a comedy show I've set up often doesn't record these days because I've programed the setup menu to skip repeats. A short while back, during World Series baseball season, lots of major series ran repeats to avoid shrunken viewerships.

With both DVRs, find that a cold boot (unplugging), waiting about 30 secs, often cures glitches in the hardware performance. -- John

Found my setup has missed DVRing programs for two separate reasons: With one cable system (RCN) and converter (DCT6412) the firmware requires pressing ENTER for a 'confirm' icon as a last step. I've easy to overlook since this isn't required with my SA8300HD, with Passport, on NYC's TWC.

Record few series, but a comedy show I've set up often doesn't record these days because I've programed the setup menu to skip repeats. A short while back, during World Series baseball season, lots of major series ran repeats to avoid shrunken viewerships.

With both DVRs, find that a cold boot (unplugging), waiting about 30 secs, often cures glitches in the hardware performance. -- John

It's not that it's missing recordings. It's only recording partials. And it seems to happen once a week. I'll look at my recorded list and spot a show like CSI and it only recorded 22 minutes and then quit for unknown reason.

I do not have the ability to record new shows only. Our program guide in this area does not show "New" or "repeat" so I cannot set it up with that feature.

Having the other outputs disabled when using a digital output is a good thing. My projector does the same thing for it's inputs. If I'm using component 1, component input won't do a thing. It allows the device to focus all of it's visual scaling and signal strength to one input, so it's a good thing in my opinion.

As to the 8300HD doing it, and then not, I have no clue :\

What I want to find out is why it likes to bark about the DVI/HDMI copy protection being blocked now and then.

I disagree. If you desire to turn them off - your call, you might save some cycles if those outputs are processed on the same chip and it was designed on the bottom of the performance margin. But lots of folks want to run displays off the other outputs simultaneously [or while leaving the HDMI cable connected] to kitchens, bedrooms, touch panels, secondary displays, etc. So I want the box designed to have the power to run them all simultaneously.

As I understand them, all the 480i/p outputs are perfectly legal and the only output the HDCP codes were to stop were 720p/1080i over component. The blocking of all output connections when HDCP fails over HDMI is the problem in the way the 8300HD handles HDCP and HDMI and failure notices. You should still be able to view 480i over those ports.

Of course I could be wrong, and/or the content providers may want to stop all analog entirely...

v/r,
C-F

As I understand them, all the 480i/p outputs are perfectly legal and the only output the HDCP codes were to stop were 720p/1080i over component. The blocking of all output connections when HDCP fails over HDMI is the problem in the way the 8300HD handles HDCP and HDMI and failure notices. You should still be able to view 480i over those ports.

Of course I could be wrong, and/or the content providers may want to stop all analog entirely...

v/r,
C-F

I'm pretty confident that most, if not all content providers would love to see the analog hole somehow mysteriously disappear. However, the last I knew, content providers owned intellectual copyright and have control over their content, but not over my DVD player, my cable box, or my display. If they want to encode their content so I can not copy it, that's fine. But when the electronics manufacturers get in bed with the content providers to deliberately disable a legal use/feature of the product, then I think the pendulum has swung a little too far in the other direction.

Just for the record, I do not copy copyrighted material illegally, period. Nonetheless, I do expect to choose how to output content I have legally licensed and at any and all legal resolutions.

I agree with C-F that all outputs should be functional, but I will go one step further and say they should all be functional all the time. Why HDCP has any effect on component connections is beyond me; it is a digital copyright protection protocol--why does it have anything to do with analog connections? (That is a rhetorical question; I really know the answer from the content providers' perspective.) Content providers can use some other copying protection method to protect content via component/analog connections.

I have my 8300 connected via component to my Fujitsu 50" plasma. I pay TW almost $200/month to have legally licensed content. The day they down rez any content I have paid for and have a legal right to view via my component connection, is the day they stop getting one penny more of my money.

It will also likely be the day many of us will be seeking representation for a class action suit against all the manufacturers, content providers, and distributors for appropriate compensation and punitive damages.

David

Sounds to me that you need to go back to your set up menu and select 1080i, 720p, and 480i. This is done with the box turned off and pressing info and guide at the same time ON THE BOX. You will see a wizard that will step you through the rest of the operation.


That was precisely it, thanks Hookbill. Now I let the Panny do the scaling!

Sam

Alright I've had my 8300HD for a couple weeks now, and for the most part it's lovely. However it's not 100% happy, I'm just curious if anyone else has these issues:

- "DVI/HDMI Output is Blocked", it loves to do this every now and then especially when it first turns on.
- Random Resets: I'd say about 2-4 times a week it'll just randomly lockup and have to be reset... which is rather annoying..
- It didn't record CSI last night, which annoys me, no explanation for this either.
- It got stuck recording another CSI episode last week and used up the entire HDD, I had to reset it again to delete the corrupt chunk of data.

- D

Alright I've had my 8300HD for a couple weeks now, and for the most part it's lovely. However it's not 100% happy, I'm just curious if anyone else has these issues:

- "DVI/HDMI Output is Blocked", it loves to do this every now and then especially when it first turns on.
- Random Resets: I'd say about 2-4 times a week it'll just randomly lockup and have to be reset... which is rather annoying..
- It didn't record CSI last night, which annoys me, no explanation for this either.
- It got stuck recording another CSI episode last week and used up the entire HDD, I had to reset it again to delete the corrupt chunk of data.

- D

All I can say is welcome to the 8300. With all the different versions of software out there and depending on your cable company, don't expect it to work 100% correctly. I think I know of one person on any of these boards whom never experiences any problems. My current problem is it only records a partial show about once a week randomly. I have had it jam and reboot on many occasions. I've seen it miss recordings for no apparent reason, although there are some that will say there is always an explanation.

It's not that it's a bad machine, it just isn't perfect. A TiVo is pretty close to perfect but you only get a single tuner with that.

A TiVo is pretty close to perfect but you only get a single tuner with that.

Unfortunately, there's no TIVO in Canada, although I've heard rumblings it's being considered.

Daphoid:

Who's your cable company up there in Barrie? I'm not seeing problems like that with Rogers in Toronto.

Unfortunately, there's no TIVO in Canada, although I've heard rumblings it's being considered.

Daphoid:

Who's your cable company up there in Barrie? I'm not seeing problems like that with Rogers in Toronto.

Jim,

Rogers same as you. It's been good the past couple of days, have you ever had it crash when trying to start a On Demand video?

- D

Jim,

Rogers same as you. It's been good the past couple of days, have you ever had it crash when trying to start a On Demand video?

- D

I've had my 8300 for about 15 months and it's nver crashed. I rarely use on demand video, though. I have had the occasional problem with recordings not playing back properly. I recorded the last episode of Michael Palin's Himalaya series from TVO. The video didn't play back at the right speed and the audio was just noise. This was an SD recording. On HD, I've occasionally seen something play back with jerky motion, but the audio was OK.

These boxes are definitely strange at times.

Yeah I recorded two movies off on HDTMN (which I've done before) and they didn't play at all, no video, audio, they'd just sit at the "Press List to view Recorded Shows or use the Channel Up/Down controls to change channel" screen...

Odd, I'll have to schedule something else again... I hope it's not something to do with HDCP because I really enjoy watching stuff from HDTMN (and it's program list isn't always the same as TMNOD)

- D

Do you have a component display to hook it to [and eliminate HDMI] for a week? Although, I have not heard that the HDCP error screen have affected the internal recording functionality, as opposed to ruining kitchen tvs and external DVD-R/VHS recordings, using component would eliminate the possibility of random HDCP errors from messing up a scheduled and unattended recording.

v/r,
C-F

I do, the box was actually on component for a week before I switched to HDMI. I've found HDMI has a crisper picture, it just pauses sometimes with that "DVI/HDCP conent is blocked" box while it catches up.

I recorded Corner Gas in HD last night unattended and it worked fine, so maybe something was just off, I'll setup a recording the next time I'm in there.

I'd hate to get rid of this cable because it's like 25ft long and in my wall/ceiling :)

- D

Anyone know how to get the 8300DVR in Dayton,OH 45458..my local office is kettering. PM ME!

Yeah I recorded two movies off on HDTMN (which I've done before) and they didn't play at all, no video, audio, they'd just sit at the "Press List to view Recorded Shows or use the Channel Up/Down controls to change channel" screen...

Odd, I'll have to schedule something else again... I hope it's not something to do with HDCP because I really enjoy watching stuff from HDTMN (and it's program list isn't always the same as TMNOD)

- D

My plasma isn't HDCP compliant, so I've never used HDMI, only component, Perhaps HDCP hand shaking accounts for some of your problems. I've commented in another thread that I don't understand why the 8300 does HDCP checking when no one is broadcasting it. I could understand it if HDCP were "turned on", which it isn't.

SA's implementation of this seems odd, but maybe all HDCP ready devices do it as a matter of course.

I just moved and lost my 8300 to a Comcast Motorola 6412 box. My laundry list of complaints with the new box is in the appropriate thread, but it was suggested that I cross post to let you folks with the 8300 know how good you have it!

Here are some "features" of the Motorola box:

- If it is unplugged at any point it must download all the software from scratch, as well as the program guide. This takes over 5 hours, by my estimation. I'm really looking forward to my next blackout.
- You must manually switch between the two tuners with the swap button in the PiP section of the remote, regardless of whether or not you are using PiP. So if you are recording a show while watching it and try to change the channel it will tell you that you must stop recording. Good luck figuring out why unless you post in AVS.
- Program guide doesn't differentiate between new episodes and reruns for shows that air multiple times (i.e. most cable shows) so subscribing to "new eps only" will get you 8 or 9 identical episodes of Daily Show, Real World, etc... Also, since you can't subscribe to a show in a particular timeslot (like, say just the 2am Daily Show) there is no way to solve this other than to either manually delete all the repeats (each delete needs about 8 clicks) or just do what I did and stop watching these types of shows until they get a better system.
- When fast-forwarding, if you hit play without pausing first you will probably lose sync between audio and video
- Program guide show descriptions are usually just descriptions of the series: Daily Show - "John Stewart's witty, irreverent spoof of the news." Stuff like that.
- Menus are insane and require puzzle-solving skills to navigate
- Screen tells you "Your recording is finished" and requires you to hit "exit" to make message go away.
- Search only by title, not by keywords or anything like that. So much for discovering cool new shows based on your interests (searching for "painting" is how I found some of my favorite art shows on the 8300)
- clickable banner ads in the program guide, so when you click down you have to click 6 times for every 5 channels (1,2,3,4,5,ad,6,7,8,9,10,ad...)
- No way to save a program forever as far as I can tell like the little diamond on the 8300, which is especially useful given the smaller, non-expandable harddrive and the complicated, confusing priority menu.

There are so many more problems with this machine. It is pathetic. I miss my 8300 so much! As Cinderella once sang, "Don't know what you got till it's gone!" :(

Thanks for the post. Maybe this will put some of the 8300 problems into perspective for some folks, but I doubt it. After all, when you are having a problem, it doesn't really matter how much worse something else might be. I stub my toe and say, "Ouch", even though someone else may have just broken a leg or something worse. Upon reflection, I see how petty my stubbed toe is, but at that moment, it hurt. :)

I just moved and lost my 8300 to a Comcast Motorola 6412 box. My laundry list of complaints with the new box is in the appropriate thread, but it was suggested that I cross post to let you folks with the 8300 know how good you have it!

Here are some "features" of the Motorola box:

- If it is unplugged at any point it must download all the software from scratch, as well as the program guide. This takes over 5 hours, by my estimation. I'm really looking forward to my next blackout.
- You must manually switch between the two tuners with the swap button in the PiP section of the remote, regardless of whether or not you are using PiP. So if you are recording a show while watching it and try to change the channel it will tell you that you must stop recording. Good luck figuring out why unless you post in AVS.
- Program guide doesn't differentiate between new episodes and reruns for shows that air multiple times (i.e. most cable shows) so subscribing to "new eps only" will get you 8 or 9 identical episodes of Daily Show, Real World, etc... Also, since you can't subscribe to a show in a particular timeslot (like, say just the 2am Daily Show) there is no way to solve this other than to either manually delete all the repeats (each delete needs about 8 clicks) or just do what I did and stop watching these types of shows until they get a better system.
- When fast-forwarding, if you hit play without pausing first you will probably lose sync between audio and video
- Program guide show descriptions are usually just descriptions of the series: Daily Show - "John Stewart's witty, irreverent spoof of the news." Stuff like that.
- Menus are insane and require puzzle-solving skills to navigate
- Screen tells you "Your recording is finished" and requires you to hit "exit" to make message go away.
- Search only by title, not by keywords or anything like that. So much for discovering cool new shows based on your interests (searching for "painting" is how I found some of my favorite art shows on the 8300)
- clickable banner ads in the program guide, so when you click down you have to click 6 times for every 5 channels (1,2,3,4,5,ad,6,7,8,9,10,ad...)
- No way to save a program forever as far as I can tell like the little diamond on the 8300, which is especially useful given the smaller, non-expandable harddrive and the complicated, confusing priority menu.

There are so many more problems with this machine. It is pathetic. I miss my 8300 so much! As Cinderella once sang, "Don't know what you got till it's gone!" :(

Well, that all sounds pretty bad but the good news for you is it's only temporary as Comcast has signed a deal to bring TiVo to you soon. Once you have TiVo you'll forget about how "good" the 8300 is I guarantee it.

Incase you haven't heard the news today a quality company finally buys SA. I'm sure it will be years before we as consumers actually start to see the benefits of better products out of SA. But this is certainly a good start.

Article "Cisco buys set-top box maker for $6.9bn":
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10098761/

I find it odd that someone would pay $6.9B for a company that so many here say is so lousy. I guess, maybe fortunately, they don't read these forums. :)

They also bought Linksys, did they not?

v/r,
C-F

They also bought Linksys, did they not?

Yes they did, and that was a smart move to kill your competition in the home networking market. I think they probably look at this buy-out as a way to further penetrate a market they want to play in -- quickly.

Incase you haven't heard the news today a quality company finally buys SA. I'm sure it will be years before we as consumers actually start to see the benefits of better products out of SA. But this is certainly a good start.

Article "Cisco buys set-top box maker for $6.9bn":
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10098761/

What makes you think SA is going to get better just because Cisco bought it? AFAIK, Cisco has no experience in this market. Just because they want an entry into the consumer market doesn't mean much, IMO. Of course, time will tell.

Cisco is a market leader in Internet Systems, esp Routers.
SA builds not only SAT and CATV STB's but also Video Encoders, Fibre Optic distribution
systems and IP STB's. They're in highly overlaping businesses.

Once Cisco, et. al. implement the Next Generation Internet, it will become the
"VideoNet", delivering H.264 and VC1 encoded HD movies and other programs.
Bye Bye NetFlix, Blockbuster, DVDs and limited VOD from your local cable provider.

In case you missed it, Digital Television is now an "Internet" product.
It starts out by being digitized and dumped onto video servers.
The video servers are then subjected to Video Broadcast Management systems,
to manage what data is trafficed out of the Network Operating Center (NOC).

High Speed Fibre Optic switching networks (e.g. ATM) are used to distribute
the video files, supplemented with SATCOM interconnections and finally local
Routers decide which program gets distributed via the various QAM carriers
according to dynamically changing allocation algorithms (e.g Switched Video Broadcast).

Cisco is a market leader in Internet Systems, esp Routers.
SA builds not only SAT and CATV STB's but also Video Encoders, Fibre Optic distribution
systems and IP STB's. They're in highly overlaping businesses.

Once Cisco, et. al. implement the Next Generation Internet, it will become the
"VideoNet", delivering H.264 and VC1 encoded HD movies and other programs.
Bye Bye NetFlix, Blockbuster, DVDs and limited VOD from your local cable provider.

In case you missed it, Digital Television is now an "Internet" product.
It starts out by being digitized and dumped onto video servers.
The video servers are then subjected to Video Broadcast Management systems,
to manage what data is trafficed out of the Network Operating Center (NOC).

High Speed Fibre Optic switching networks (e.g. ATM) are used to distribute
the video files, supplemented with SATCOM interconnections and finally local
Routers decide which program gets distributed via the various QAM carriers
according to dynamically changing allocation algorithms (e.g Switched Video Broadcast).

Thanks for the info. I haven't thought about Cisco in those terms before. Obviously, everybody knows about their Internet hardware and software products.

I'm still not sure how any of that fits with STB's, though. I guess we'll find out down the road somewhere. I've owned SA digital cable boxes for at least 7 years and the user interface through all that time has not changed for the better. Of course, they have introduced much better boxes like our 8300HD's, so that's saying something.

I'm having a problem with my 8300. Every once in a while I record shows onto my Replay and all I get on the screen is " The DVI/HDMI output is blocked". If I record an hour show, the message is up there the entire hour. I have it set for 1080i if that makes a difference. Any idea's what causes this?

Thanks!

Anyone else have this issue? Every now and then (read: every other day or so) I turn on the projector and 8300HD and everything has a blue tint to it (like crazy blue only) and none of the video shows up, I can browse guide and all that, and listen to the audio from the channels, but I get "The DVI/HDMI content is blocked". The only solution is to reset the dumb thing (thank good for the "how to reset it via the front panel" trick...

If it persists, I'll call the cable co and get a "would you like to swap it?" answer *sigh*

- D

All I can say is welcome to the 8300. With all the different versions of software out there and depending on your cable company, don't expect it to work 100% correctly. I think I know of one person on any of these boards whom never experiences any problems. My current problem is it only records a partial show about once a week randomly. I have had it jam and reboot on many occasions. I've seen it miss recordings for no apparent reason, although there are some that will say there is always an explanation.

It's not that it's a bad machine, it just isn't perfect. A TiVo is pretty close to perfect but you only get a single tuner with that.

I've had mine for a few weeks now, and it's been trouble free --- I for one am lovin' it!

Having the other outputs disabled when using a digital output is a good thing. My projector does the same thing for it's inputs. If I'm using component 1, component input won't do a thing. It allows the device to focus all of it's visual scaling and signal strength to one input, so it's a good thing in my opinion.

.

Well, not really. I have the 8000HD in my family room and a small 23" samsung LCD panel in my bedroom upstairs. If I want to see something I recorded I have to trudge downstairs to start it and run it as analog Component to the Samsung. With both active I could first search for a recorded show and then play it.

For anyone here. If I get a Gefen DVI splitter and a DVI-VGA converter could I use it with a VGA to Component controller box I already have? I have a I/R Zertec Component switcher which I could use to first select the live menu on the downstairs box and then over to the "VCR" record component setting.

Rich

Has anyone tried to get the SA8300 to work with a Mac?
I would love to be able to record directly from my cable box to my Mac.
Can this be done?

Gavroche reported success with a Powerbook, uncertain if it was HD resolution or not. Post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6679513&&#post6679513)

v/r,
C-F

Does andbody out there know if the 8300HD does the proper color matrix conversion on SD upconverted to 720p/1080i?

Does andbody out there know if the 8300HD does the proper color matrix conversion on SD upconverted to 720p/1080i?
Never too sure, but it would probably be more of an issue with the original NTSC (Never The Same Color) source material. The quality and variance from channel to channel is quite dramatic. Any upconversion is fully dependent on the original source material and then the display's ability to be calibrated and set to true greyscale periodically. As for the original question, whatever method was employed as a standard when the unit was designed and built is what's in the box.
There is no noise filtering during the upsampling of the STB, but most TV's employ noise filtering and smoothing to NTSC images as they are upconverted. With that in mind, you will see differences between STB and TV upconversion.

vegggas

I've been told by a friend (who often is misinformed) that, if I get HBO-HD (from cablevision) I will not be able to record it (for timeshifting) on my 8300. He claims that only non premium channels are recordable. Is this true? Any problems recording HD movie services?

I've been told by a friend (who often is misinformed) that, if I get HBO-HD (from cablevision) I will not be able to record it (for timeshifting) on my 8300. He claims that only non premium channels are recordable. Is this true? Any problems recording HD movie services?
No problem here Jackson. HBOHD records just fine.

I've been told by a friend (who often is misinformed) that, if I get HBO-HD (from cablevision) I will not be able to record it (for timeshifting) on my 8300. He claims that only non premium channels are recordable. Is this true? Any problems recording HD movie services?

I'd say your friend is VERY misinformed. :)

Perhaps he was thinking about HBO on demand. That you cannot record.

Thanks. I guess I'll upgrade my cable package!

I'd say your friend is VERY misinformed. :)

Perhaps he was thinking about HBO on demand. That you cannot record.

RE: Misinformed friend: 8300HD DVR encrypts data internally, so it can only be played back on THAT DVR. If you use an external drive, program can also only be played through THAT DVR. If you remove drive and connect to a different 8300 - it won't play. So the 8300DVR restricts playback to that device and thus keeps the Hollywood people happy.

RE: HBO On Demad - I've heard that, but do't have any trouble making SD DVDs from it. I have seen where some Sony DVD recorders won't record ANYTHING from an 8300 (says it is copy protected) and I know, for a fact, that the use of a Sima GoDVD takes care of that problem.

Just a little FYI for anyone that's curious, I know this may seem a little obvious to some but it may not for others.

If you've been having a lot of issues with your 8300HD and are using the HDMI input, give your cable company a call and see if they actively support the use of that connection. I'd been resetting my DVR approximately once every other day to twice a day in some cases. Sometimes it'd just lock all content with "Copy Protection is Blocked" and it would just die out on me, or only display a blue signal.

Well I finally had enough today, called the cable company, went straight to Tech Support and after a bit of tweaking and conversing I was informed that they don't support the HDMI port yet and that they don't even send out HDCP through their signal, so it's been cranky.

I want back to component and haven't had a single problem since *knock on wood*. Now some of you would be sitting there "But now you have an expensive HDMI cable and it's doing nothing", well even worse mine happens to be a 25ft run through my wall / ceiling :).

No worries though, I plan to give that connection happily to my Playstation 3 (or possibley a HD DVD player), so we'll see what goes on :)

- D

RE: HBO On Demad - I've heard that, but do't have any trouble making SD DVDs from it. I have seen where some Sony DVD recorders won't record ANYTHING from an 8300 (says it is copy protected) and I know, for a fact, that the use of a Sima GoDVD takes care of that problem.

Agreed. I wouldn't know of any reason you couldn't record a DVD from HBO on Demand. I was specifically referring to the 8300.

Just a little FYI for anyone that's curious, I know this may seem a little obvious to some but it may not for others.

If you've been having a lot of issues with your 8300HD and are using the HDMI input, give your cable company a call and see if they actively support the use of that connection. I'd been resetting my DVR approximately once every other day to twice a day in some cases. Sometimes it'd just lock all content with "Copy Protection is Blocked" and it would just die out on me, or only display a blue signal.

Well I finally had enough today, called the cable company, went straight to Tech Support and after a bit of tweaking and conversing I was informed that they don't support the HDMI port yet and that they don't even send out HDCP through their signal, so it's been cranky.

I want back to component and haven't had a single problem since *knock on wood*. Now some of you would be sitting there "But now you have an expensive HDMI cable and it's doing nothing", well even worse mine happens to be a 25ft run through my wall / ceiling :).

No worries though, I plan to give that connection happily to my Playstation 3 (or possibley a HD DVD player), so we'll see what goes on :)

- D

Very interesting. This may explain my getting a partial recording once a week on various shows for no apparent reason.

I just replaced my splitter to see if that had anything to do with the problem. The splitter I had was probably purchased around 1985, an old Rad Shack "Archer" brand. :)

I may have to purchase some component cables next. My DVI/HDMI cable wasn't expensive. I got it for around 20 bucks on ebay.

^^

Seems you're having Partial Posts problems too! *just kidding :D*

But yeah, I only made the change yesterday, I just used the component cables that were included with the 8300HD, they included a digital coax audio cable too which was nice of them. I'll use the box today and let you know if it explodes.

- D

^^

Seems you're having Partial Posts problems too! *just kidding :D*

- D

Wow, that was weird! I don't know what happened on that. :)

Hi folks
Merry Xmas and Happy new year...

I got a question for other SA8300HD owners...
Has anyone tried to connect this STB's HDMI with a DVI cable to one of moomes cards using a marquee 8500?

Reason I just ordered one fo these cards and wanna find out for sure if it will do what it says it will...from what i understand it is hdcp complient and the marquee has the slot necessary to put it in the CRT PJ

I also knoe that the hdmi port works...I m just curious to find out if it works with this card!

Thanks

Martin

UPDATE:

This combo works great!
I am now satisfied (...for the time being!)

... If you've been having a lot of issues with your 8300HD and are using the HDMI input, give your cable company a call and see if they actively support the use of that connection. I'd been resetting my DVR approximately once every other day to twice a day in some cases. Sometimes it'd just lock all content with "Copy Protection is Blocked" and it would just die out on me, or only display a blue signal. ...

This is the reason why I was just perusing this thread - my first visit to this particular forum. I have an 8300HD DVR with Cablevision service here in NJ but am unsure if the HDMI out is functional. The ability to test it with my Infocus 7200 may be compromised by the fact that (according to elsewhere on AVS) early 7200 units (of which I have one) do not do the HDCP handshake correctly and crap out after just a couple of seconds. Supposedly, Infocus will replace the appropriate board, but I'd naturally love to know that the 8300 works before losing my proj for weeks (and then finding out afterwards that it still doesn't work).

I will be connecting the 8300 to a Gefen switcher, as I just got an upconverting DVDP (which doesn't have HDCP, but I at least know that the projector's DVI (actually M1) input works sans HDCP). This equipment may be coming in Today or Monday, so I'll be able to test.

So, anyone out there actually have a 8300HD DVR with Cablevision service in Central Jersey with a working HDMI output?

Thanks.

Doug

This is the reason why I was just perusing this thread - my first visit to this particular forum. I have an 8300HD DVR with Cablevision service here in NJ but am unsure if the HDMI out is functional. The ability to test it with my Infocus 7200 may be compromised by the fact that (according to elsewhere on AVS) early 7200 units (of which I have one) do not do the HDCP handshake correctly and crap out after just a couple of seconds. Supposedly, Infocus will replace the appropriate board, but I'd naturally love to know that the 8300 works before losing my proj for weeks (and then finding out afterwards that it still doesn't work).

I will be connecting the 8300 to a Gefen switcher, as I just got an upconverting DVDP (which doesn't have HDCP, but I at least know that the projector's DVI (actually M1) input works sans HDCP). This equipment may be coming in Today or Monday, so I'll be able to test.

So, anyone out there actually have a 8300HD DVR with Cablevision service in Central Jersey with a working HDMI output?

Thanks.

Doug

Doug,

I'm in Rochester, NY, and our HDMI outputs are active. I have an Infocus 4805. I could never get the 4805 to work with the HDCP from the 8300, and it's supposed to be totally compliant. I haven't tried it recently (to see if any firmware pushes to the 8300 have fixed this) but the 8300 is a HDCP pain as well, and there's no immediate solution, as SA points the finger at the displays and the displays point the finger at SA. It is well known that SA's implementation of their boxs is pretty loose, meaning that most cable subscribers end up being beta testers for all practical purposes.

I ended up running component from the 8300 to the 4805, which looks indentical, as much as I can tell from the HDMI feed (during the few times I got it to work for an extended period of time.) If you have the option of running component for the 8300, that would be my solution. You could borrow another display just to make sure that the HDMI is working, etc. but you still, in my opinion, will have no guarantees that when you get your PJ serviced by Infocus that it's all going to work, because the problem could be on SA's end.

It would help if you could find someone running your PJ with the 8300 somewhere, just so you know they're compatible.

Wes

Doug,

I'm in Rochester, NY, and our HDMI outputs are active. I have an Infocus 4805. I could never get the 4805 to work with the HDCP from the 8300, and it's supposed to be totally compliant. I haven't tried it recently (to see if any firmware pushes to the 8300 have fixed this) but the 8300 is a HDCP pain as well, and there's no immediate solution, as SA points the finger at the displays and the displays point the finger at SA. It is well known that SA's implementation of their boxs is pretty loose, meaning that most cable subscribers end up being beta testers for all practical purposes.

<snip>

It would help if you could find someone running your PJ with the 8300 somewhere, just so you know they're compatible.

Wes
Thanks for the feedback, Wes. Using the HDMI does sound like a crapshoot. I hate when there are too many variables to properly isolate any troubles.

If the issue for me was just image quality, it wouldn't be an issue, because I'm not particularly sensitive to image quality and am happy with the component out from that perspective. It's an equipment location issue - I'd like to get the 8300 off my main rack and onto another rack which currently has only a DVI connection to the proj. Hate to have to run component cables from there to the proj as well.

Also, I figure at some point my proj will have to properly support HDCP, and I don't plan on upgrading for quite a while (fingers crossed). Who knows if Infocus will be offering this fix indefinitely. Guess I have a decision to make; just want as many facts (and opinions) as possible before moving forward.

Thanks again.

Doug

Thanks for the feedback, Wes. Using the HDMI does sound like a crapshoot. I hate when there are too many variables to properly isolate any troubles.

If the issue for me was just image quality, it wouldn't be an issue, because I'm not particularly sensitive to image quality and am happy with the component out from that perspective. It's an equipment location issue - I'd like to get the 8300 off my main rack and onto another rack which currently has only a DVI connection to the proj. Hate to have to run component cables from there to the proj as well.

Also, I figure at some point my proj will have to properly support HDCP, and I don't plan on upgrading for quite a while (fingers crossed). Who knows if Infocus will be offering this fix indefinitely. Guess I have a decision to make; just want as many facts (and opinions) as possible before moving forward.

Thanks again.

Doug

I see your point. I think you should send the PJ in to Infocus for the upgrade/fix. Look ahead to some time when you're going out of town/vacation/etc., or know you'll be crazy busy and won't miss it, probably sooner rather than later.

Then when you get it back, you'll find out if it works with the 8300. If so, great! If not, you'll have to think about relocating your 8300, or running a set of components for it from the new location.

Let us know how it all works!

Wes

Your best bet for HDMI usage is to contact the cable company. My company (Rogers Cable) is actually quite helpful when I need them to be. I just called their 1-800 number and went to Cable Technical Support, and the guy informed me that although the HDMI input is enabled, they don't support it at all at the moment, so there's no HDCP coming down the pipe from them, and this is where the box + my projector just crap out, it was resetting on a daily basis, now it's just fine over component :)

Only downside is I have a $125 HDMI cable (it's long) that's doing nothing at the moment... ah well it'll be used for the Playstation 3 :D

- D

This is the reason why I was just perusing this thread - my first visit to this particular forum. I have an 8300HD DVR with Cablevision service here in NJ but am unsure if the HDMI out is functional. The ability to test it with my Infocus 7200 may be compromised by the fact that (according to elsewhere on AVS) early 7200 units (of which I have one) do not do the HDCP handshake correctly and crap out after just a couple of seconds. Supposedly, Infocus will replace the appropriate board, but I'd naturally love to know that the 8300 works before losing my proj for weeks (and then finding out afterwards that it still doesn't work).

I will be connecting the 8300 to a Gefen switcher, as I just got an upconverting DVDP (which doesn't have HDCP, but I at least know that the projector's DVI (actually M1) input works sans HDCP). This equipment may be coming in Today or Monday, so I'll be able to test.

So, anyone out there actually have a 8300HD DVR with Cablevision service in Central Jersey with a working HDMI output?

Thanks.

Doug

I have a friend here in Rochester with a similar set-up (InFocus 7200 series, Gefen DVI switcher and a SA3250HD) and it all works OK. I would imagine that the HDCP software in the SA3250HD is similar to the SA8300HD so the indications are that it will work. We are running SARA version 1.87.16.a109. If your system is at that or higher you should be OK.

I have a friend here in Rochester with a similar set-up (InFocus 7200 series, Gefen DVI switcher and a SA3250HD) and it all works OK. I would imagine that the HDCP software in the SA3250HD is similar to the SA8300HD so the indications are that it will work. We are running SARA version 1.87.16.a109. If your system is at that or higher you should be OK.

How do I determine the SARA version? What is SARA? I see posts discussing it but not answering these questions.

Note that my 7200 may be an early one that did not support HDCP (or support it "properly"). See this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=487253) for some discussion on it. No matter what the result of my connection attempt once I get the switcher, likely on Monday, is that I'll send my proj's serial number to Infocus to check on the HDCP compliance of the mainboard.

Very interesting experiment I just performed, as I remembered having a DVI-D connector on my kids' PC monitor, the Sony SDM-HS74P. The 8300HD HDMI connector actually worked when connected to this monitor (I do have an HDMI->DVI-D cable). I tried 720p mainly, and other than an inability to set a picture size that didn't crop a bit off the sides of HD content/channels, it worked. I would think then that HDCP is not active on my 8300HD's HDMI output, correct?

Thanks.

Doug

Doug,
Assuming you have SARA (and not Passport):
Do all of the following from front panel:
1) Hold SELECT until the mail logo appears in display.
2) Press INFO button - first of (many) diagnostic pages appear
3) Use front panel curser buttons to navigate through the pages
4) Find page with Software Version - should be of form 1.87.23.1
5) EXIT button to exit.

I don't believe that any versions of software that enabled HDMI did so without HDCP enabled. It may be that the Sony monitor was HDCP capable (I checked the Service Manual on it - but it didn't give any indication one way or the other).

daveHancock,
I have never had any problem using the remote:
Hold pause button until mail blinks and so forth.

TerryB

Doug,
Assuming you have SARA (and not Passport):
Do all of the following from front panel:
1) Hold SELECT until the mail logo appears in display.
2) Press INFO button - first of (many) diagnostic pages appear
3) Use front panel curser buttons to navigate through the pages
4) Find page with Software Version - should be of form 1.87.23.1
5) EXIT button to exit.

I don't believe that any versions of software that enabled HDMI did so without HDCP enabled. It may be that the Sony monitor was HDCP capable (I checked the Service Manual on it - but it didn't give any indication one way or the other).

On Software Version Screen, "Flash" entry shows 1.88.15.3. On a later screen, it showed HDMI and HDCP in the "initialized" state. Not sure what to make of a screen near the end (of 33 screens!) titled "Copy Protection", where it listed DVI_HDMI as having a Protection Type = "none", Enabled = "no", and Constrained = "no", whereas the next line for YPrPb showed the same except for Enabled = "yes".

Although the Sony manual gave no mention of HDCP, a Sony online "knowledge base" search for the term HDCP within the scope of this monitor did find a one-liner entry that looked like it was plucked from a list of error messages that apparently stated that the monitor does not support HDCP.

Thanks.

Doug

Doug,

From the SW version that you have, it is pretty clear that HDMI is active in your area. The odds of things working with your proector appear good - BUT SA has had a history of HDCP related problems - so there is no gurantee, but I'd say it is worth the effort getting the 7200 upgraded - but you might want to try it first to see if it works without the upgrade.

The current Cablevision SARA version does have some issues with HDMI. It's works for some, like me, but not others. It all depends on what TV you have. Join the Cablevision Yahoo group http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/cablevision_digital/
Wilt Hildenbrand is Cablevision's Senior VP of Engineering and he monitors and posts in the site. Post your information there and he might look into it for you.

Doug,

From the SW version that you have, it is pretty clear that HDMI is active in your area. The odds of things working with your proector appear good - BUT SA has had a history of HDCP related problems - so there is no gurantee, but I'd say it is worth the effort getting the 7200 upgraded - but you might want to try it first to see if it works without the upgrade.

I received my Gefen DVI switch today, so I was able to connect the cable box to it using the same HDMI/DVI cable that I used to connect the box to the Sony PC monitor Saturday, as mentioned in a previous post.

It works!

Picture looks a bit smoother than with component. Using 720p fixed output and projector set to Native format so it doesn't invoke its scaler. Given that my Sony monitor is apparently not HDCP compatible and my SP7200 may be an early run that does not have the proper HDCP support, my guess is that HDCP is not active on my box (yet). I did ask my proj dealer to check with Infocus on this issue. I'll also likely send their tech support an email with my serial # to see what they say. It would suck to suddenly lose the ability to view with the HDMI feed one day.

So I guess while I wait to hear what Infocus has to say, I'll move my cable box to the new location and use the HDMI interface.

Interesting side note - at first, I couldn't get my upconverting DVD player to work with the switch. After swapping 3 DVI cables twice and just before going on AVS hoping to find an answer, I powered down the player and powered up again, and it worked. Dummy me.

Doug

It works!

Update: The 8300 video through the HDMI shows some vertical jitter. It can be seen from my position (2x screen width) only with static images, such as lettering, a graphic, or a paused screen. Think ESPN scores, music channels, menu overlays. Motion in each direction is very small and rapid, about 2 or so cycles per second. I don't notice it with any programming that has motion. Even tough to notice with a talk show. I don't think this will bother me; time will tell.

Doug

Update: The 8300 video through the HDMI shows some vertical jitter.

Another update :rolleyes: : Jitter was not there this evening. Maybe the picture stabilizes after some time period of being plugged in, as it was moved to a different location when changing to HDMI viewing.

Doug

FWIW, the only time I ever notice jitter is when I'm looking at my program menu and I come to it from SD mode. If I put the menu on while I'm watching HD there is no jitter. I have been using DVI to HDMI since I got the 8300 over a year ago and have had no problems.

On Software Version Screen, "Flash" entry shows 1.88.15.3. On a later screen, it showed HDMI and HDCP in the "initialized" state. Not sure what to make of a screen near the end (of 33 screens!) titled "Copy Protection", where it listed DVI_HDMI as having a Protection Type = "none", Enabled = "no", and Constrained = "no", whereas the next line for YPrPb showed the same except for Enabled = "yes".

Although the Sony manual gave no mention of HDCP, a Sony online "knowledge base" search for the term HDCP within the scope of this monitor did find a one-liner entry that looked like it was plucked from a list of error messages that apparently stated that the monitor does not support HDCP.

Thanks.

Doug

Enabled = yes means it is currently hooked up. It only becomes enabled if you are using that input. My firewire changes to enabled = yes when I connect to my DVHS deck.

Last night my HDMI connection became blocked. It has been working for months and now all of a sudden I het the message HDMI to DVI output is blocked. I switched to component and everything works. I have SARA 1.87.23.1

I'm going to try to get a new box and see if that will fix the problem. I've had this same SARA version for at least several weeks and it has been working fine. Normally I get the HDMI to DVI output blocked message for a second and then somethinks syncs and the picture appears. now I get the message and the screen blinks a couple of times and the message reappears.

I have a TimeWarner SA 8300 HD. Just bought a Sony Grand WEGA V (A10) today.

I can go through the setup and it works fine at 720p and 1080i. Everything comes in correctly in HD.

If I switch to any other input (component, composite), the SA 8300 goes to 480i and stays there until I go through setup again.

I've set it to Fixed, Auto and Upconvert 1/2. Nothing helps.

Has anyone else seen this behavior? Is there any cure for it?

Jim Burks
Collierville, Tn

I have a TimeWarner SA 8300 HD. Just bought a Sony Grand WEGA V (A10) today.

I can go through the setup and it works fine at 720p and 1080i. Everything comes in correctly in HD.

If I switch to any other input (component, composite), the SA 8300 goes to 480i and stays there until I go through setup again.

I've set it to Fixed, Auto and Upconvert 1/2. Nothing helps.

Has anyone else seen this behavior? Is there any cure for it?

Jim Burks
Collierville, Tn

When you switch to these your switching from video 1 to video 2 or something similar, correct? Maybe video 3 to 4 or whatever.

What you need to do is run your set up on one other of these screens, probably the composite one. You may have a screen that just allows you one option (Press A). Ignore that and press B instead of A even if you don't see it there. You will see the other options pop up like the first time you ran set up.

After you do this you will no longer have this issue.

I have seen in a few post,people checking the signal strenght on the SA 8300,I have never seen this in the menus and without sounding too stupid how is this done. Thanks

When you switch to these your switching from video 1 to video 2 or something similar, correct? Maybe video 3 to 4 or whatever.

What you need to do is run your set up on one other of these screens, probably the composite one. You may have a screen that just allows you one option (Press A). Ignore that and press B instead of A even if you don't see it there. You will see the other options pop up like the first time you ran set up.

After you do this you will no longer have this issue.

This fixed it! Thanks! Gee, the Internet is great. SA needs to work on their software.

I have seen in a few post,people checking the signal strenght on the SA 8300,I have never seen this in the menus and without sounding too stupid how is this done. Thanks
First post.

This fixed it! Thanks! Gee, the Internet is great. SA needs to work on their software.
Enable 480i so it works. You are expecting to see 480i, so enable it. The HDMI control of the display is forcing the STB back to 480i mode when the there is no displayed video.

vegggas

First post.


Enable 480i so it works. You are expecting to see 480i, so enable it. The HDMI control of the display is forcing the STB back to 480i mode when the there is no displayed video.

vegggas

Vegggas, you are without question the most knowledgeable person when it comes to the 8300, but I think you missed the boat on your response to this post.

The solution I posted does work.

In fact, I had the same problem last week when I exchanged my 8300 as jbburks and I too have a Sony Wega. And I did have 480i enabled. The solution is as I described. If you go to one of your non-HDMI screens and do a set up it will show only "press A to set up your television." If you do this it will say "setup complete." But if you press B anyway the rest of the set up screen follows.

Once you've set it up on any non-HDMI screen this way there is no problem with it being stuck on 480i each time you switch video screens

The problem lies within the HDMI connection and the adaptability of 480i with the display. Choice "A" is the basic setup, and " B" is the advanced setup. The HDMI control is set to AUTO, so that the display device is in control of the setup and outputs. This would default to the basic setup controls and disable the "advanced " setting. That was sort of the way I was headed when I said to enable 480i mode and that the HDMI is forcing (when not displaying the STB) 480i mode back to the STB.
Best choice, though, is to use component.

vegggas

Last week we had SARA V.187.23.1 on the 8300. Suddenly FOX shows began to be recorded in chopped up segments. At about the same time there was a problem with the DVR changing to whatever program it was recording. Then we got a download to 1.88.15.3. The changing to recording problem is gone, but the FOX issue is still there. An engineer for our local FOX station writes on our local board and says they are working with Adelphia to fix the problem. Yesterday he says they made some changes in their parimeters and they think they have the problem fixed. He's right. At 9:00 I record House and it comes out in one solid recording.

So today for whatever reason our cable company switched us back to version 1.87.23.1. I don't get it. Both the cable company (Adelphia) and Fox said they were working together on the solution. :confused:

We just got the 4x speed and ability to play from start of recording while recording with the 1.88.15.3 version.

Seems once again a case of the left hand not knowing what the right is doing! :rolleyes:

Anyone else ever had their software rolled back?

The recordings chopped into segments is because of improper handling of the infamous broadcast flag.

Quick question. I have the HDCP cable going out to my TV, but the TV has no speakers atm. So I have the FR and FL rca outputs going to my receiver. My only concern is that on 5.1 content, it is not downmixing to 2 channel and I am missing out on all the center channel audio. I suspect this because the volume seems muuuch lower than it should be in relation to my other sources and in relation to 2 channel shows. Any idea what I can do?

Quick question. I have the HDCP cable going out to my TV, but the TV has no speakers atm. So I have the FR and FL rca outputs going to my receiver. My only concern is that on 5.1 content, it is not downmixing to 2 channel and I am missing out on all the center channel audio. I suspect this because the volume seems muuuch lower than it should be in relation to my other sources and in relation to 2 channel shows. Any idea what I can do?
1) Walk up to front of the STB and press the VOL + button to turn up the volume.

2) Then go into your 2nd level settings and change "Audio: Volume Ctrl" = "Fixed" so that #1 does not get turned down with the remote control.

3) While in the 2nd level settings, if you are using Analog audio, change "Audio: Range" = Normal, which will normalize the audio to standard levels.

vegggas

1) Walk up to front of the STB and press the VOL + button to turn up the volume.

2) Then go into your 2nd level settings and change "Audio: Volume Ctrl" = "Fixed" so that #1 does not get turned down with the remote control.

3) While in the 2nd level settings, if you are using Analog audio, change "Audio: Range" = Normal, which will normalize the audio to standard levels.

vegggas
I've done all those things, but I'm not convinced that changing from "wide" to "normal" actually downmixes the 5.1 to 2ch? If I'm watching a 5.1 movie, and I'm using the L/R analog outs from the back of the receiver (when there are 5.1 available analog outs for surround), aren't I surely missing the center channel? Also, n teh settings, it says "Audio: Digital Out" and I can't change it to analog anywhere.

Still, to hear dialog at an acceptable leve, I have my stereo at volume 20, whereas on DVDs and any other source, digital or analog, volume 10 produces the same results.

Thanks

Analog is already downmixed to 2 channel audio.
For Digital audio, you have a few digital options, but there is no such thing a analog audio outout on digital output jacks. If you want Analog audio, use the analog audio jacks.
For the range, change the setting to normal. It has nothing to do with the downmix, but a normal setting will make the audio levels the same as other analog devices.
If I'm watching a 5.1 movie, and I'm using the L/R analog outs from the back of the receiver (when there are 5.1 available analog outs for surround), aren't I surely missing the center channel? The STB has R/L OUT (again downmixed) and the receier has R/L Inputs use whatever receiver inputs you want, for example, the CD or TAPE input. If you have surround out, that is to send to an external amplifier.

vegggas

Best choice, though, is to use component.

vegggas

Problems with 8300hd and Vizio 50" Plasma.

I have been having handshake problems via HDMI since getting my Vizio a few weeks ago (vizio would lock up and have to be unplugged from wall to fix). I had the 8300hd replaced with a newer 8300hd with firewire ports. When the Brighthouse guy was setting it up (I'm in Bakersfield, CA) I asked him about getting the box to automatically fill the screen on SD channels as well as HD. He did a bunch of stuff then left. It appeared to be working, I think he set it to Upconvert2, but when watching SD channels I get a thin line of white at the top of my screen. Almost like the picture is moved slightly down. Also, the next day when changing the channel to a SD channel I got "No Input", but changing back to HD channel it worked. To fix this, I have changed the output back to fixed 1080i. Now the picture is fine, but I have to stretch on SD channels. I haven't had it hooked up long enough to see if the handshake problems are gone.

I guess my question is two fold.

1. If i just connect through Component instead of HDMI will this fix any future handshake issues? Is Component PQ just as good as HDMI?

2. Is there any way to have the 8300hd automatically adjust to full screen when on SD, digital and HD channels?

When you switch to these your switching from video 1 to video 2 or something similar, correct? Maybe video 3 to 4 or whatever.

What you need to do is run your set up on one other of these screens, probably the composite one. You may have a screen that just allows you one option (Press A). Ignore that and press B instead of A even if you don't see it there. You will see the other options pop up like the first time you ran set up.

After you do this you will no longer have this issue.

god, i hope this works. my next option is a chainsaw and a hand grenade

-MC

Hello everyone

Maybe Vegggas knows the answer to this one!

Does anyone know if the firewire port works in the new SA8300HD model...I also have one of those and figured maybe someone here has tried it (...before i move my PC or get a long enough firewire cable... )

I would like to be able to capture to PC with the firewire so that I can archive some of my shows!

Thanks again

Martin

Hello everyone

Maybe Vegggas knows the answer to this one!

Does anyone know if the firewire port works in the new SA8300HD model...I also have one of those and figured maybe someone here has tried it (...before i move my PC or get a long enough firewire cable... )

I would like to be able to capture to PC with the firewire so that I can archive some of my shows!

Thanks again

Martin

As far as I know, these are available for future use and not activated.

If it was manufactured after July FCC requires it to work.
TW Memphis (sara software) it's active. Works well "live",
but sux when trying to archive from hard drive.
Sorry for ranting in every available post:)

If the firewire works, it should allow dumping to a 5c compliant device like a D-VHS machine. PC's are not 5c compliant and may or may not work, depending on wether or not the cable co is implementing 5c yet.

vegggas

Problems with 8300hd and Vizio 50" Plasma.

I have been having handshake problems via HDMI since getting my Vizio a few weeks ago (vizio would lock up and have to be unplugged from wall to fix). I had the 8300hd replaced with a newer 8300hd with firewire ports. When the Brighthouse guy was setting it up (I'm in Bakersfield, CA) I asked him about getting the box to automatically fill the screen on SD channels as well as HD. He did a bunch of stuff then left. It appeared to be working, I think he set it to Upconvert2, but when watching SD channels I get a thin line of white at the top of my screen. Almost like the picture is moved slightly down. Also, the next day when changing the channel to a SD channel I got "No Input", but changing back to HD channel it worked. To fix this, I have changed the output back to fixed 1080i. Now the picture is fine, but I have to stretch on SD channels. I haven't had it hooked up long enough to see if the handshake problems are gone.

I guess my question is two fold.

1. If i just connect through Component instead of HDMI will this fix any future handshake issues? Is Component PQ just as good as HDMI?

2. Is there any way to have the 8300hd automatically adjust to full screen when on SD, digital and HD channels?

Component does not have any handshake, thus it will work. (Hint: stop using HDMI - see link in sig )
Screen adjustments are done in the setup modes. If you use component, they will usually work, but over HDMI, the TV sends data back forcing different viewing instructions.

vegggas

I m gonna give it a try...

I m also bidding on a JVC DVHS to use as a tuner...from what i have read it also has firewire!

Thanks for all the help/info

Martin

if HDMI is not enabled in my area, will a dvi to hdmi cable work? and will that be any better than going with component?

if HDMI is not enabled in my area, will a dvi to hdmi cable work? and will that be any better than going with component?

HDMI has to be enabled on the 8300 for it to work. To the best of my knowledge most versions of SARA support the 8300 HDMI.

Now as far as it being better then component, that depends. Most everyone tries both to see what is the best for their set. I have a 30" Sony Wega and I use the HDMI but I really don't think I see that much difference between that and component.

I have an SA8300HD-DVR which seems to perform better when connected to one of the component inputs of my TH-50PX50U rather than its HDMI port. I use the HDMI connection to support the up conversion feature of my OPPO OPDV971H (http://www.oppodigital.com) DVD player.

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzequg9f/OPDV971H.JPG

If it was manufactured after July FCC requires it to work.
TW Memphis (sara software) it's active. Works well "live",
but sux when trying to archive from hard drive.
Sorry for ranting in every available post:)

This is NOT QUITE TRUE: FCC rules Part 76.640 require the interface to be there, but does not require it to be functional:

(4) Cable operators shall:

(i) Effective April 1, 2004, upon request
of a customer, replace any leased
high definition set-top box, which does
not include a functional IEEE 1394
interface, with one that includes a
functional IEEE 1394 interface or upgrade
the customer’s set-top box by
download or other means to ensure
that the IEEE 1394 interface is functional.

(ii) Effective July 1, 2005, include
both a DVI or HDMI interface and an
IEEE 1394 interface on all high definition
set-top boxes acquired by a cable
operator for distribution to customers.


Note that para (i) requires that cable provide a STB with a FUNCTIONAL IEEE 1394 upon customer request. But para (ii) only requires that all STBs have IEEE 1394 interface on all STBs acquired by cable after July 1, 2005. Note, that in that paragraph the work "FUNCTIONAL" is missing.

It appears to be working on the 8300HD on most systems but other parts of these rules require 5C copy protection to work, which may limit operation with some devices.

Note that para (i) requires that cable provide a STB with a FUNCTIONAL IEEE 1394 upon customer request. But para (ii) only requires that all STBs have IEEE 1394 interface on all STBs acquired by cable after July 1, 2005. Note, that in that paragraph the work "FUNCTIONAL" is missing.You need to read a little further. Code of Federal Regulation Title 47, §76.640 (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=3a005e7f9cd8575114b3107aa015edaa&rgn=div8&view=text&node=47:4.0.1.1.4.11.3.15&idno=47)(b)(4)(iii) reads:
(iii) Ensure that these cable operator-provided high definition set-top boxes shall comply with ANSI/SCTE 26 2001 (http://www.scte.org/documents/pdf/ANSISCTE262004.pdf) (formerly DVS 194): “Home Digital Network Interface Specification with Copy Protection” (incorporated by reference, see §76.602), with transmission of bit-mapped graphics optional, and shall support the CEA–931–A: “Remote Control Command Pass-through Standard for Home Networking” (incorporated by reference, see §76.602), pass through control commands: tune function, mute function, and restore volume function. In addition these boxes shall support the power control commands (power on, power off, and status inquiry) defined in A/VC Digital Interface Command Set General Specification Version 4.0 (as referenced in ANSI/SCTE 26 2001 (http://www.scte.org/documents/pdf/ANSISCTE262004.pdf) (formerly DVS 194): “Home Digital Network Interface Specification with Copy Protection” (incorporated by reference, see §76.602)).This gives a list of specifications, all of which concern only 1394 A/V protocols, giving minute details of exactly what functionality the 1394 connection must provide to be complaint with paragraghs (i) and (ii). (Unforturnately, the CEA's specs aren't available online for free).

Mike,

Good point, however, my interpretation of this is that those boxes with FUNCTIONAL interfaces will comply with those standards. If they were mandating FUNCTIONAL interfaces on all boxes they would have stated such in para ii - like they did in para i.

Dave, by what logic could you possibly interpret the text of this regulation in that fashion? The phrase "these cable operator-provided high definition set-top boxes" in §76.640(b)(4)(iii) would clearly cover all "cable operator-provided high definition set-top boxes" discussed in the preceding paragraphs: those provided "upon request of a customer" as of 1 April 2004 in (i) and "all high definition set-top boxes acquired by a cable operator for distribution to customers" after 1 July 2005 as set forth in (ii).

This is simply a codification of the requirements that all of the major cable MSOs committed to in the plug-and-play DTV-over-cable agreement between them and the consumer electronics OEMs. The agreeement was reached only after years of wrangling and being held at gunpoint by the legislature, which threatened to impose requirements of their own making if the two groups could not reach an accord by a certain date. Any attempt to willfully misinterpret the law would certainly not be looked kindly upon by either the FCC or Congress.

Mike,

I understand that the standards cited are a result of a lot of wrangling. I am simply suggesting that the FCC required that the physical interface be in place on all STB's acquired as of July 1 last year and that the FCC has not yet mandated that those interfaces be enabled.

Now for my logic (as I stated before). Para (i) clearly mandated that the a functional interface be supplied on a STB upon customer request. Para (ii) did not include the functional term. If all units were to be functional they would have stated this in a manner similar to para (i). Para (iii) cited the specs that these interfaces must meet - that, in itself, did not mandate that all HD STBs in customer's hands meet these specs. Further, there is no FCC statement in their regulations that state that all supplied STBs have functional Firewire (or DVI/HDMI) interfaces. There is no regulation that requires that any type of STB have such functional interfaces.

PS. These are not "laws", they are regulations and Congress did not create these particular regulations - they passed acts enabling or directing the FCC to regulate the industry. (But this is a minor point)

Have Brighthouse Cable of Central Florida.
Have the 8300HD and a Sony WEGA HD-compatible TV (ie, not an HD tuner box).

Everything seemed pretty groovy til I plugged in a fancy new HDMI cable trying to get even better picture. I mean, there's a danged HDMI out port on the DVR and an HDMI in port on the TV - it's a no-brainer, right?

Well, obviously I'm having some of the problems a few of you folks are having.
First I noticed that sometimes I get the error about my system not being HDCP compatible or whatever and that I need to use the YpBr connector or some crud.

Ok, I ignore it and sometimes it rights itself after a while. Other times I unplug/replug the system and it comes on fine. I really coudn't tell ya what sequence of events triggers this issue yet, nor what the best solution is. But it doesn't happen very often (maybe once a month) and it never has the error message more than 5 minutes.

Would love a solution, but then I start having another problem.
The buttons on the remote are funkified.
If I select a recorded program and bring up its options and then hit Erase and try to confirm that - sometimes the confirmation (A button) changes the channels on me. I go back and check the recorded programs and the recorded one is still there. Sometimes I have to do that 2 or 3 times before it takes.
What the HECK is causing that?
Is it the HDMI too? Or should I call Brighthouse and have them take back their DVR?

And finally, months later, I'm having a new dandy.
Sometimes when we hit Power on the tv and walk away (like we've alwasy done), the system powers off the DVR too. We'll wake up the next day to find it stopped recording the show in progress, or it didn't record the next show.

This progressive set of symptoms would make me think it's more than one wiring change I made months ago. But what do you think?

thanks for your time,
cra2

I understand that the standards cited are a result of a lot of wrangling. I am simply suggesting that the FCC required that the physical interface be in place on all STB's acquired as of July 1 last year and that the FCC has not yet mandated that those interfaces be enabled.Dave, we'll just have to agree to disagree. However, interpreting this in the way that you're choosing to, no 1394 connection placed on the exterior of the box has to even be connected to the board. Under the same interpretation, the HDMI connections don't have to work---the word "functional" doesn't appear there either.

Paragraph (iii) specifies requirements for all boxes discussed under (b)(4)--it says "these boxes" not "some boxes". If anything, one might conclude that it only pertained to the previous paragraph--certainly not only to the equipment in the paragraph before, just because they incidentally used the word "functional" there.

BTW, footnotes 61 and 62 from the bottoms of pages 12 and 13 of the FCC 03-225 (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-03-225A1.pdf):
(61) MOU at 6. The MOU signatories clarified that the use of the term “functional” in connection with the [December 31, 2003] deadline reflected “an acknowledgement … that prior to the MOU, several MSOs had purchased and, in some cases, deployed high-definition digital set-top boxes which contained an IEEE 1394 interface which do not have software embedded in the [set-top box] to allow the 1394 interface to function.”
(62) Draft Technical Rules at 2. The use of the term “functional” does not appear in connection with the July 2005 deadline for DVI or HDMI interfaces since the MOU signatories anticipate that “interfaces…associated with future set-top product purchases … would be made functional by the manufacturer before delivery to the operator.The clear intent is that all required interfaces be functional.

The real loophole is that they only require equipment purchased after 1 July 2005 to have these connections. They don't require them to purchase any HD STBs after that date and when and if they do, they're not required to lease any of them to you. They're only required to give you a box with working connection(s) if you request one, but they are not required to give you any particular box with working 1394 connection(s) (you can't demand a DVR), even if they have one.

Mike,

Well we disagree somewhat. The underlying issue here is that cable may not have been able to deploy the software to make the Fireware port functional on all HD STBs that have connected Firewire ports. The current wording of Part 76 (at least in my interpretation) recognizes that.

I've appreciated the discussion.

I use cablevision in the north jersey area and have the provided SA8300 connected to a denon 4306 via hdmi and then run another hdmi to my panasonict 50" 60U. I notice that my oppo which is also plugged into an HDMI port runs perfectly fine. The SA8300, on the other hand, usually works but at least once every 10-15 minutes the screen will go blank for a second and then come back in to play. I notice that if i rewind the information is there and i can watch the part that skipped. What is causing this to happen. Its very annoying? Any fix? I want to keep the HDMI connection as I un all my signals into my Denon and then have one single HDMI wire run into my plasma. Any ideas?

I use cablevision in the north jersey area and have the provided SA8300 connected to a denon 4306 via hdmi and then run another hdmi to my panasonict 50" 60U. I notice that my oppo which is also plugged into an HDMI port runs perfectly fine. The SA8300, on the other hand, usually works but at least once every 10-15 minutes the screen will go blank for a second and then come back in to play. I notice that if i rewind the information is there and i can watch the part that skipped. What is causing this to happen. Its very annoying? Any fix? I want to keep the HDMI connection as I un all my signals into my Denon and then have one single HDMI wire run into my plasma. Any ideas?

The HDMI out on the 8300 is very finicky. Honestly, I'm surprised that you can run the 8300 to the Denon without HDCP handshake issues. AFAIK, many people have reported issues w/ the HDCP handshake when going from the 8300 to a receiver rather than directly to the display.

The Oppo (which I have as well) on the other hand has a very stable DVI output (which doesn't even require HDCP).

All in all it's an annoyance you may need to live with (or change to component). I get it too, every now and then but not nearly as regularly as you are describing.

its really odd. Sometimes i may get the screen to blank out 4 times in a minute. Ohter times it goes without a hitch for an hour. Each time its never longer than 2 seconds. If i run component into the receiver and then an hdmi to the TV will I run into this problem. I'd prefer to have just one wire run into the TV out of convenience.

It appears as though my panny 60U has a digital optical out and 2 or 3 hdmi ins. Can i run the HDMI into the TV from the SA8300 direct? Then run an optical cord into the receiver? Will this rectify the problem?

its really odd. Sometimes i may get the screen to blank out 4 times in a minute. Ohter times it goes without a hitch for an hour. Each time its never longer than 2 seconds. If i run component into the receiver and then an hdmi to the TV will I run into this problem. I'd prefer to have just one wire run into the TV out of convenience.

It appears as though my panny 60U has a digital optical out and 2 or 3 hdmi ins. Can i run the HDMI into the TV from the SA8300 direct? Then run an optical cord into the receiver? Will this rectify the problem?


Running component to the receiver and HDMI to the display will only work if your receiver converts component to HDMI, which it may, but it may not.

If you have multiple HDMI ins on your display, I would try doing what you suggest - run an HDMI cable directly from the 8300 to the display and optical from the 8300 to the receiver. The other advantage of this is that you can then calibrate your display differently for each video source as opposed to having a single setting for the denon. In general, I think it's better to route video direct to the display.

Not sure if this will fix your stuttering issue on the 8300 but it may.

Running component to the receiver and HDMI to the display will only work if your receiver upconverts component to HDMI, which it may, but it may not.I've never heard of any receiver that could do this trick. Can you name one?

There would be no "upconversion" involved, since the signal would already be in HD resolution; just straight conversion.

I've never heard of any receiver that could do this trick. Can you name one?

There would be no "upconversion" involved, since the signal would already be in HD resolution; just straight conversion.

I guess I didn't mean upconversion, just conversion. Don't know much about HDMI receivers though. Personally since I run the video directly to the display to allow for indpendently calibrated settings, I don't see myself ever buying one (at least not until they become so standard that all receivers have them).

The Yammie RXV2600 will take all video inputs and convert them to HDMI output, as well as scale any lower resolutions up to 720p/1080i. Might be others, but that is the one I am familiar with.

The denon 4306 and denon 2807 upconverts i believe. All analog inputs can go through the HDMI out into the TV and I believe can be upconverted (or upscaled i forget) to 720p or 1080i I believe. It does not change the resolution of digital connections. Man, I guess I'll go out and buy an optical cord....sigh...there goes my snazzy plasma with only two wires running out the back. Now it will be three....

The denon 4306 and denon 2807 upconverts i believe. All analog inputs can go through the HDMI out into the TV and I believe can be upconverted (or upscaled i forget) to 720p or 1080i I believe. It does not change the resolution of digital connections. Man, I guess I'll go out and buy an optical cord....sigh...there goes my snazzy plasma with only two wires running out the back. Now it will be three....
You can pretty much use "upconvert" and "upscale" interchangebly.

You can pretty much use "upconvert" and "upscale" interchangebly.
twitchee3 and/or Jason, are you saying that when you convert 720p analog (component) to 720p digital (HDMI) that this is "upconverting" or "upscaling"? If so, you are implying that one (analog or digital) is UP and the other is DOWN.

I've always considered that these two terms were referring to scan rate conversion (which may, or may not result in D>A or A>D conversion).

dave:

720p analog to 720p digital sound the same to me. All I mean is the 4306 and 2807 allow you to plug in analog signals, and digital signals and a signal will all go to the tv via one hdmi cord. This is different than other receivers which requires 2 connections, HDMI for digital and component for the analog.

Anyway to update you guys on my sa8300 experience. So I ran the sa8300 directly via hdmi into the back of the panny 60u. I then ran out of the digital out of my tv via toslink into my receiver. So far so good the night i did it. The next day, however, same issue. Not as frequent but I still have the signal cut although if i rewind dvr it will play clip i missed. Anybody know what is causing this? anyway to solve this? Additionally, i don't know if this is true or not or its just my eyes but the video signal actually appears slightly fuzzier going directly into my tv from the sa8300 vs the sa8300 into the receiver and then the tv. Anybody else experiencing this? What a pain in the butt!

Hi guys, I've been using my new Syntax LT32HVM with the SA8300HD in NYC (TWC so it's "Passport") via component for the last few weeks (and HD PQ looked great so far) so was really excited about getting my HDMI to DVI cable (the syntax has a HDCP compatible DVI input) and connecting it, expecting better PQ. unfortunately not the case. PQ is terribly blocky / pixelated, component looked much much better. Seems the 8300 "locks" itself to only output 1080i (as shown in the 8300's LCD display) and i can't change it thru the cable menu - settings > more settings > output formats. if i select any others (720p, 480p) they just dissapear as options when i accept. only 1080i remains.

From what i understand searching some great posts here is that HDMI is a "two way" connection so could it be that the syntax only accepts 1080i and hence it's not the 8300 that is locking into 1080i but rather the Syntax? if so any idea why it's so pixelated? the TV accepted 1080i thru component and there was no pixelation. but 1080i thru HDMI/DVI is bad. if it was a scaler issue in the syntax (the panel is 1366x768) then 1080i thru both should have looked same. unless the scaler only kicks in on component inputs not hdmi. does that make sense? this is driving me nuts :) i think i'm missing something here....

any suggestions, pointers would be appreciated. :D

Hi guys, I've been using my new Syntax LT32HVM with the SA8300HD in NYC (TWC so it's "Passport") via component for the last few weeks (and HD PQ looked great so far) so was really excited about getting my HDMI to DVI cable (the syntax has a HDCP compatible DVI input) and connecting it, expecting better PQ. unfortunately not the case. PQ is terribly blocky / pixelated, component looked much much better. Seems the 8300 "locks" itself to only output 1080i (as shown in the 8300's LCD display) and i can't change it thru the cable menu - settings > more settings > output formats. if i select any others (720p, 480p) they just dissapear as options when i accept. only 1080i remains.

From what i understand searching some great posts here is that HDMI is a "two way" connection so could it be that the syntax only accepts 1080i and hence it's not the 8300 that is locking into 1080i but rather the Syntax? if so any idea why it's so pixelated? the TV accepted 1080i thru component and there was no pixelation. but 1080i thru HDMI/DVI is bad. if it was a scaler issue in the syntax (the panel is 1366x768) then 1080i thru both should have looked same. unless the scaler only kicks in on component inputs not hdmi. does that make sense? this is driving me nuts :) i think i'm missing something here....

any suggestions, pointers would be appreciated. :D
Well one thing that is different between component and DVI/HDMI is that comopnent is analog, so the SA 8300 has already processed and scaled the content it sends out and your syntax only has to display exactly what's being input, whereas with HDMI/DVI, the signal being sent to the TV is digital, and the TV must employ its own scaler/digital decoder to decrypt and display the digital information as an image on the display. Don't know exactly how this pertains to the error you're having, but at least it will further knowlege of the equipment.

From what i understand searching some great posts here is that HDMI is a "two way" connection so could it be that the syntax only accepts 1080i and hence it's not the 8300 that is locking into 1080i but rather the Syntax? if so any idea why it's so pixelated? the TV accepted 1080i thru component and there was no pixelation. but 1080i thru HDMI/DVI is bad. if it was a scaler issue in the syntax (the panel is 1366x768) then 1080i thru both should have looked same. unless the scaler only kicks in on component inputs not hdmi. does that make sense? this is driving me nuts :) i think i'm missing something here....

any suggestions, pointers would be appreciated. :D

I use an HDMI / DVI cable from the 8300 to my Samsung DLP and have no issues accessing or changing the output formats menu on the 8300. Once you introduce DVI into the mix, I believe the cable is no longer "two way" or if it is, it's not nearly as "smart". On my 8300 I have 480p, 720p and 1080i enabled without any issues and the PQ is very clean looking (better than component). It's possible you have a bad box or maybe a bad cable. But you should be able to change the output format settings.

By any chance, do you have component connected to the 8300 at the same time as the HDMI / DVI cable? If so, I would remove component as this can introduce errors.

With either DVI or HDMI, the display controls the resolution via the two way communication.
Every digital display scales incoming signals to fit the native resolution of the panel, other wise you would see either a 1/4 screen of video (640x480) or the center portion of the video zoomed (1920x1080) of your FIXED 1366x768 pixels. Internal scaling reduces or expands the video to fit your panel.
The reason you are having video issues is because the display is only allowing 1080i over the digital input, and then probably converting the digital input back to analog and then doing the scaling. So your display is first processing the digital video back to analog, then having to do the scaling back to it's native resolution in real time. The processing is not fast enough in the display to keep up and make the video smooth. This is somewhat common in lower priced displays that use older, less costly chipsets.
Use component - you are much better off. Save the "digital" input for less demanding throughput devices, such as an upscaling DVD player.

vegggas

Ok. I take back what I said :)

Thanks for the replies guys.

EricScott - no, the component cable is not connected to the 8300, only the hdmi cable.

Vegggas - your explanation kinds makes sense because thats the only way to explain why 1080i thru component does not have the same issue. But for scaling to native resolution (which even the pricier 1366x768 models have to do) do all/most chipsets have to first convert to analog? kinda defeats the purpose of digital if it needs to convert to analog and then scale.

i think i'm going to switch back to component for the 8300 and use the dvi for my PC....oh well :)

btw, veggas you mentioned to save dvi for "less demanding throughput devices, such as an upscaling DVD player". wouldn't that also have the same issue if it output 1080i (or anything really that is not 1366x768)?

Some displays convert the digital input to analog before scaling, and yes, it does seem to defeat the purpose of a digital connection, but that's a misnomer. A digital inputs primary use is to allow HDCP connections to the display, and although a better image is "possible" due to less Analog - Digital - Analog conversions, there is very little difference on many display source combinations. The biggest gain is from displays that can't handle analog sources very well.
For upscaling DVD players, the bandwidth over a digital connection is about 1/4 of the bandwidth of an HD signal, so even the slowest / low cost chipsets can keep up. Furthermore, DVD players don't have native HD resolutions (they are actually only 480i), so there is no two way communication that can be tripped up. Their output is simply scaled up to a higer carrier resolution.

vegggas

Can anybody help me? I have the darn SA8300 plugged directly to the panny 60U via HDMI and then have a TOSlink cord run out of the panny into my receiver. The picture cuts out at least 3 times an hour for about a few seconds each time. When i rewind the content i missed plays. HOW THE HECK DO YOU SOLVE THIS? ITS DRIVING ME INSANE??? MY FIANCE IS FORCING ME TO GO BACK TO COMPONENT BUT I DON"T WANT TO!!