It's an irony to note that one of the more respected brands of quiet computer fan is Panaflo, which happens to be made by... you guessed it... Panasonic!

The problem is that the DLP lamp creates a LOT of heat. You only have to feel the exhaust at the back of the set to get an idea of just how hot it runs. The heat is greater than anything you would expect to be expelled from a computer case so I'm guessing that most quiet computer fans simply wouldn't do the job. The only chance you may have of quetening things down is to somehow squeeze a 120x120x38mm in there, and I doubt if that's possible.

All that said, my 50DL54 is a lot quieter than my HTPC that sits beside it.

Originally posted by forkball
So Yesterday Tweeter was kind enough to just flat out replace my 50" after I had waited 3+ weeks for replacement fans. I turn the set on and what do I hear? Yep, the exact same noise.

I am not at all pleased by this. I know some people in this forum do not have a problem with fan noise and that is great for them. Unfortunately I am not one of the chosen few who can tolerate such a sound. So the way I see it I have a few options. Return the set for a full refund or exchange it for a different modle. That would suck as I love the PQ. I could call them up and insist that they try to repair the issue with the set. I have little confidence that they can. Or I can crack open the box, and figure out a way to replace the fans myself with quieter PC grade ones that move an equal amount of air. The latter option may void some form of my warranty but I would risk it. If I had a problem I figure I can just return the original fans to the unit before a repair tech came out. The final option which I am not thrilled with is to just live with it and if I try I know I will throw my shoe into it at some point when the noise pisses me off enough.

If anyone knew the CFM of the fans or had any info on the fan assembly, that would be great. I would appreciate anything you might have. Does anyone have the service manual? I would be curious about anything it might have regarding the fans.

Thanks

Forkball,
Too bad the noise is still there. Confirms my hunch that we are not talking about a manufacturing defect. So, did you see what the fans look like? 120 or 80 mm fans? also do the fans use a standard 3 pin connection as is found on most computers? do you have to remove the entire rear cover to get to the fans?

Originally posted by Zimberto
It's an irony to note that one of the more respected brands of quiet computer fan is Panaflo, which happens to be made by... you guessed it... Panasonic!

The problem is that the DLP lamp creates a LOT of heat. You only have to feel the exhaust at the back of the set to get an idea of just how hot it runs. The heat is greater than anything you would expect to be expelled from a computer case so I'm guessing that most quiet computer fans simply wouldn't do the job. The only chance you may have of quetening things down is to somehow squeeze a 120x120x38mm in there, and I doubt if that's possible.

All that said, my 50DL54 is a lot quieter than my HTPC that sits beside it.

I did my research when I picked the PANNY DLP, but like yourself am considering a different mfg. and model. I'm considering the JVC LCOS set, but need to see the MSRP drop so it'll be a straight swap. I might even go for the SONY LCD RPTV.

Well, Panasonic should increase the depth of the TV just a bit, squueze in a couple more fans in there, all Panaflo ones, made by....you guessed it...themselves...and have happier customers. :)

Annoying Panny DLP Fan Noise (PT50DL54). This comprehnsive message details my many time-consuming and disappointing attempts to reduce or "fix" the very noticeable and annoying fan noise emanating from my Panasonic PT 50DL54 DLP TV and my ultimate decision to return the DLP set despite having to "eat" a 15% restocking fee.

In the end, getting rid of the Panny DLP and purchasing an LCD rear projection set from a different manufacturer was the wise and satisfying choice for me because I simply did not want to stare at the Panny every evening while the highly annoying fan noise served as a constant reminder (both to me as well as any of my guests) that I purchased an obviously marginal product for a premium price ($3,000+). In a nutshell, when you pay more than $3,000 for a Panasonic DLP or any high-end TV, it should operate at least as well - - and at least as quietly or unobtrusively - - as a lesser priced direct-view HDTV.

In late September 2004, I purchased the Panny DLP from an Internet retailer who I will not name but be assured, the retailer ranks consistently as one of the most trusted Internet sellers of DLPs, flat panel TVs, and related electronic products. The Internet retailer was very professional, and my purchase of the Panny and the delivery of the set occurred very smoothly.

Background Fact #1 : I placed the Panny DLP in my family room, which measures 17 x 22 feet, with a 10 foot high ceiling. My common viewing couch was positioned 12 feet (144 inches) away from the Panny. The room has a thick rug, lots of thick curtains and soft furniture so sound waves are not easily reflected or propagated as they otherwise would be if the room was full of hard reflective surfaces such as glass walls and hardwood floors. The DLP was placed on top of a 22 inch high video platform manufactured by "Bello".

Background Fact #2: I'm one of those guys who listened to too much loud music in my incorrigible youth (high school and college days) and therefore I would never be able to get a job as an audiologist or anyone who needs to have sensitive hearing. My girlfriend occasionally asks me "Did You Hear That" and my answer is almost always "No". So, I am definitely not someone who has sensitive hearing.

Unfortunately, the moment I plugged the Panny in and turned it on, the DLP's fan noise was immediately apparent, very audible, and very annoying. The fan noise was very easily heard and very annoying when sitting 12 feet away on my viewing couch. The noise definitely emanated from the cooling fan (as opposed to the DLP color wheel) because the noise continued when the set was turned off and while the fan continued to cool the High Intensity Discharge bulb. The fan noise was probably equivalent to the decibels emanating from a loud refrigerator compresssor motor.

I turned the Panny's volume to "14" which is louder than what I would normally listen to normal programming. Unfortunately, even at that "slightly louder than normal" volume setting, the Panny's fan was audible and annoying. Moreover, even when I viewed loud "action" movies, there were frequent periods of dialogue during which the fan noise was easily audible and very annoying. (Yes, I agree with everyone that the HD resolution as well as DVD picture quality on the Panny DLP was great, but let's stick to the fan noise.)

Now here's something important : A good neighbor of mine has a Samsung HLP 5063 DLP (50 inch diagonal DLP). Of course, the Samsung also has a cooling fan for its bulb. Because I wanted to be sure that the Panny's particularly loud and annoying fan noise was unique to the Panny and was not a common element in all DLP TVs, I asked my neighbor if I can compare the Panny's fan noise to the fan noise emanating from his Samsung.

I spent considerable time at his house viewing his Samsung in his family room which has dimensions slightly smaller than my family room. I sat approximately 10 feet away from the Samsung DLP. At no time was I able to hear the Samsung's fan noise while viewing standard broadcasts or watching movies. I only heard the Samsung's fan - - and just barely - - when the Samsung was turned off and the fan continued to run for a short time to cool the bulb.

To make absolutely sure about testing the Samsung DLP's fan noise under the same conditions as the Panny DLP's fan, my neighbor and I eventually carried the Samsung out of his house and into mine, and placed the Samsung DLP side by side with the Panny DLP in my family room. The difference in fan noise was striking - - and very disappointing to me. The Panny's fan noise was simply loud and annoying, while the Samsung's fan was silent.

Importantly, when I placed my hand next to the fan output vents of the Panny and the Samsung, the Panny DLP was pumping out a significantly greater amount of heat than the Samsung DLP, and the lower portion of the Panny's cabinet felt warmer to the touch than the Samsung's cabinet. The Panny's bulb might be running hotter than the Samsung's bulb, and therefore the Panny's fan may have to run at faster revolutions (and therefore louder) in order to dissipate the greater amount of heat generated by the Panny bulb.

Based on my non-scientific observations, it seems to me that fans revolving at higher RPMs would probably make more noise than fans running at lower RPMs. I dunno - - I suppose that a TV cabinet's shape and any built-in obstructions inside the cabinet and near the fan blades could create oscillations which could also enhance the noise from fan blades. In any event, the difference in fan noise, and heat output at the vents of the Panny and the Samsung were striking in their dissimilarity. The Panny's fan is definitely loud and annoying.

To fix the Panny's fan noise probem, I tried making a sound enclosure with sound absorbing foam and other "soft" materials I purchased at my local Home Depot and local crafts stores. Basically, it was a box that I tried to position on the outside cabinet of the TV while still maintaining proper air flow into and out of the TV. If you get the idea that this was becoming very time consuming and frustrating, you're absolutely right.

To make a long story short, the sound enclosure did not work because the Panny's fan noise emanates from the lower left front corner of the DLP's cabinet as well as the left and right side vents and rear vents. I also left sufficient room for necessary airflow. Therefore, to make an effective sound box enclosure, you would have to have a box attached to and enclosing the front left lower corner of the TV as well as both side vents. This would be an incredibly ugly thing to do to a sleek 3,000+ TV. And any such box might block necessary aiflow. Moreover, based on my two weeks of fiddling with a sound box contraption, the fan noise would still probably be audible and annoying, and the sound box would just make your TV look incredibly stupid.

My next step was sending the Panny DLP to a Panasonic authorized repair facility. Which I did. The technician from the authorized repair facility visited my home and within seconds of turning on the Panny DLP, he confirmed that the fan noise was noticeably loud. The technician put the Panny in his van, to attempt repairs back at his store. To make a long story short, I later received a call from the technician advising that he received technical advice from Panasonic, but even with the technical advice from Panasonic, neither he nor his technical staff could reduce the fan noise. The technican confirmed that Panasonic would simply say that the DLP TV and the fan were performing within Panasonic's performance specifications for model PT 50DL54.

I am going to stop here for now, but there is a more detailed story regarding the efforts by the authorized Panasonic repair facility, as well as my lengthy and dissappointing phone conversation with the manager of Panasonic's customer call center, and I will write that report in the next several days. Suffice to say that at the end of the inspection and repair process, and despite my personal efforts to reduce the annoying and noticeable fan nose, nothing worked !! The Panasonic DLP's fan continued to be as loud as it had always been even after attempted repairs were made to the fan.

I understand when people on this discussion board say "Just Live With the Fan Noise" or "You'll Get Used to the Fan Noise Over Time" or "Turn Your Volume Up". However, in response to these well meaning suggestions, I respectfully offer my two cents : We, as consumers, should not have to settle for purchasing expensive ($3,000+) products only to be dissappointed by unresolved issues that manufacturers did not address or resolve during the product testing phase. In this instance, it seems that by installing a higher capacity fan, and/or modifying the interior of the rear of the DLP cabinet, both of which would require negligible research and development costs, Panasonic could have avoided the problem of undue DLP fan noise that many of us on this discussion board have documented and suffered.

Someone else on this discussion board mentioned that he drives a Lexus and that his car is silent. It's interesting to note that when Toyota first unveiled its Lexus brand, Toyota did so with the express purpose of addressing and resolving all the quality issues that other luxury car manufacturers ignored. Consequently, Lexus made a quieter car than other luxury car makers, and Lexus provided a more refined ride, and Lexus built-in greater reliability than other manufacturers. And Lexus ate everybody else's lunch. All I'm saying is that it's silly for consumers to compromise their personal and reasonable standards on a product (DLP TVs, luxury autos) from a particular manufacturer which cost a lot of money, and for which careful product testing could have resulted in a better final product. -Former Pan DLP Fan

While I have some sympathy for you, I don't have a lot.

Firstly, the fact that you opted to pay $3000+ for your TV is not Panasonic's fault. Personally I paid $2400 for mine... and that is definitely not at the high end of prices for a DLP set of this size. That isn't to say that $2400 isn't a lot of money.

Secondly, the bottom line is that you bought a product, didn't like it, and returned it. While I can understand your frustration with the problem, you simply exercised your consumer rights, as do 1000's of people very day. I'm only surprised that you put yourself (and your neighbor!) thru so much torture before you did so.

Finally, let it be known to all potential Panasonic PT-50DL54 buyers: THE COOLING FAN MAY BE LOUDER THAN AVERAGE - you have been told! Expect little pity (from me anyway) after having read this thread, if you go out and buy one of these sets and then find that the fan noise annoys you.

In a similar vein, I have been reading a lot of comments on the JVC D-ILA TVs. A significant number of people are reporting problems with their sets. I am therefore totally bewildered why, after reading all the problem reports, people are still choosing to buy them! Anyway...

I hope you will be happy with whatever you end up with. Maybe you should make an offer on your neighbor's set! ;)

First. The detail of your saga is good to hear. I think I have decided on my course of action, not only based partly on your post, but on some new issues from last night.

I get home from work, go into the TV room, and what do I see? THe front silver lower bezel on the TV has pulled away from the TV on the left side of the unit. This is the solid plastic piece below the screen, below the SD/media card reader section. Anyway, I thought, "what the hell" so I pull it a little more and the whole piece comes off. Apparently intentionally so, designed to be that way. Anyway, its held on with plastic grommets and those on the left were strikingly loose. So that immediately, even before I powered on the set pissed me off.

I then turn on the set, of course fan noise. But I have beaten that dead horse here already. I am watching TV and I see that the bars on the side of the 4:3 section appear to not be parallel with each other nor the sides of the set. I whip out the ruler and in fact there is a 1/4" difference. Ok, small I know, and adjustable from the service menu, but damnit this is a brand new set and I should not have this.

I am waiting for my salesman to get into work today and I will return the set for a full refund per the store's policy. I am fed up. I do not want to, because of PQ and the like, but I cannot live with this after having paid $3400. Yes I know they are cheaper online, but I have gotten a new set once already, and I get to return it after 30 days for a full refund no questions. That piece of mind is worth the extra money. SO now what, JVC, Sammy, Toshiba? Maybe plasma or lcd, or maybe I wait a year and see what happens?

I am utterly disappointed in this whole experience.

To the poster who mentioned not giving us disillusioned Panny owners any pitty. We never asked for your pitty, so save it for something else. This hopefully helps out some people looking to buy this set. Maybe you get a great set with no problems, maybe not. For me to expect less then perfection for $3400 is not something I do.

It's obvious that there is an issue with the fan noise on at least some of the Panny sets, but hey, at least the thing works. What about those poor JVC D-ILA customers with all sorts of picture uniformity problems? They paid even more money and had more severe problems. What about the Samsung owners who had power-on issues, or the ones that have audio synching issues when using an external sound system? There's a whole lot of potential pain out there when it comes to buying a big TV, and personally I consider the Panasonic fan issue to be relatively low on the problems list. Of course, this is just my humble opinion.

One thing has me curious. I'm wondering why we can't hear the fan on our PT-50DL54. We have it in a 18'x16' room and I can only hear it if I stick my head around the back of the TV. So either...

1) We have a set with a quiet fan

and/or

2) We have a relatively high level of ambient noise in the room (HTPC and air filter running 24/7)

and/or

3) We have a higher threshold for being annoyed by the noise. We don't expect to watch a movie in otherwise complete silence.

I'm guessing it's a combination of 2 and 3.

I've had my set for a week now and I couldn't be happier. The picture quality is amazing and I know it can only get better.

I don't know what the makeup of most people visiting this forum is but if you're a "newbie" and just entering this whole crazy world like I was/am, I can definatly say this TV performs brilliantly with even the most basic system components.

I have no HD at the moment. Can't get it in my Condo. So far, no problem. SD through Direct TV, S-Video connection looks great, not just watchable or acceptable, but great. And the best thing is, I know it can only look better with HD!

I have an 1999 panasonic DVD player, not progressive scan but it does have component connections and DVD's have never looked so good. Finding Nemo looked incredible. Maybe I'll upgrade to a "Upconverting" DVD player someday but right now I am more than satisfied with the PQ and again, it can only look better.

So far the dreaded "Fan Noise" problem hasn't been an issue and like somebody said above, considering the serious problems like audio sync, bulb burnout and more, some of the other sets have had documented, I would not rule out this set because of it.

I have to thank all the knowledgable members of this forum for all their advice and experience with this model and all the others but I sometimes think the "average" or "regular" guy set-up/expectations are not always voiced.

I hope this helps somebody out there trying to get through all the info on these sets. Just thought I'd give my opinion on this since all the advice on this forum really helped me make this decision and I couldn't be happier.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by FormerPanDLPFan
[B]Annoying Panny DLP Fan Noise (PT50DL54). This comprehnsive message details my many time-consuming and disappointing attempts to reduce or "fix" the very noticeable and annoying fan noise emanating from my Panasonic PT 50DL54 DLP TV and my ultimate decision to return the DLP set despite having to "eat" a 15% restocking fee.

I'm disappointed by what PANASONIC is doing for this issue. They should review the field data / do an investigation and for the sake of customer satisfaction consider replacing the fans with a different lower noise model.

Noisy Fan Update. The following eight points are suggestions for potential Panny DLP buyers (Panasonic PT 50DL54), or for any potential buyers of projection TVs or flat panel TVs who wish to test or evaluate whether the TV's fan noise will be too audible or annoying in their viewing room.

The following "fan noise evaluation" procedures were suggested to me by two people who should know: One person was the authorized Panasonic repair technician who attempted to (but could not) reduce the noticeable and annoying fan noise of my Panny DLP TV - - Model # PT 50DL54. [If you wish to read my comprehensive saga regarding my Panny's noisy and annoying cooling fan, I posted that report earlier today - November 2, 2004.] The other person who, coincidentally provided the same "fan test" suggestions as the authorized repair technician, was the Assistant Manager of the local Circuit City who I spoke to after I returned the Panny DLP to the Internet retailer from whom I purchased the noisy Panny. The eight points are as follows :

1. When testing for potentially annoying or noticeable fan noise on various LCD rear projection displays and DLP displays, and if your testing occurs in a retail showroom, you will not be able to accurately hear any fan noise. The showroom's ambient noise and the showroom's "white noise" is just too great compared with the far quieter environment of your living room. This applies even if you view a TV set in the smaller and quieter confines of a high-end av retailer. Because of the ambient noise and "masking noise" in these environments, when you are in the showroom, perform the following to test for potentially annoying fan noise : Locate the air output vents for the LCD rear projection or DLP TV, and place your hand over the vents. Make sure to do this with several LCD rear projection displays as well as several DLP displays so that you can get a broad "cross section" or good "test sample" within the showroom.

2. As you place your hand over the vents of the numerous LCD rear projection and DLP TVs, you will quickly and easily determine that some LCD rear projection displays and some DLP displays are "pumping out" air that is warmer or hotter than other LCD rear projection and DLP displays.

3. You will also notice that the fan-forced air or "air stream" hitting your hand is more pronounced and forceful in certain TVs when compared to others.

4. The TV sets pumping out more heat, and/or the TV sets pumping out a greater quantity of fan-forced air, are the sets that are probably more likely to have a fan-noise decibel range that will be noticeable within the confines of your smaller and far quieter living room/TV room.

5. Important : Do not conduct this "fan output test" by comparing the heat output and fan output between plasma displays on the one hand, and LCD rear projection and DLP displays on the other hand. This is because the heat being pumped out of the vents of Plasma displays will almost always be noticeably warmer or hotter than the heat being pumped out of LCD rear projection displays and by DLP displays. Plasma displays simply run significantly hotter than LCD rear projection or DLP displays. Accordingly, if you want to perform the "fan output test" on a plasma display, you must test "apples with other apples", by comparing the heat output and the fan-forced air output of one plasma display with other plasma displays.

6. It's okay to compare the fan output of LCD rear projection displays together with DLP displays, because while these sets rely on different technologies to display a bright precise picture, the design tolerances for the heat outputs of the LCD rear projection displays and the DLP displays are supposed to be in the same ballpark. Moreover, the plastic cabinets encasing the LCD rear projection technology and the dimensions of most DLP light engines are designed so that LCD rear projection displays can be interchanged with DLP light engines within the same manufacturer's plastic TV cabinet (as a case in point, notice that except for some minor cosmetic differences, the Panasonic LCD rear projection plastic/silver TV cabinet is identical in form factor to the Panasonic DLP plastic/silver rear projection TV cabinet.) Accordingly, the technology, design tolerances, and cabinet enclosures of LCD rear projection and DLP displays are sufficiently similar that they can be included within the same "tests" for fan output.

7. Based on the above-referenced observations and suggestions provided by the Panasonic authorized repair technician and by the Assistant Manager at the local Circuit City, the more you feel the force of the air output from the TV vents, and the warmer the air, the greater the probability that the TV's cooling fan will be audible in your living room.

8. The Circuit City asst. manager also provided the following observation : As is common with any mechanical or electronic device, heat is an enemy. In general (and he stressed he was only speaking "in general" terms), the hotter a device runs, the greater the potential for some component within the device to break down at some later point. That's the primary reason why cooling fans are installed in these TVs in the first instance. Duh! The asst. manager stressed that TV's are built with reasonable design tolerances, including reasonable heat tolerances, but my point is this :

Why purchase an expensive TV that pumps out a lot of heat, when a TV made by a different manufacturer but using the same technology - - and with the same or similar picture quality - - generates less heat ? The TV that runs cooler but which employs the same display technology and has the same or similar picture quality suggests that the manufacturer of the cooler running TV invested more "research and development" dollars into the TV, not only to make the TV more reliable over the long haul, but also so that the cooling fan will be quieter since it need not run at a high RPM to dissipate trapped heat - - thereby enhancing customer satisfaction with the TV. Just something to chew on in the purchase process.

Lastly, a few of the participants on this discussion board appear to be considering the possibility of removing their Panny DLP's existing noisy cooling fan and replacing the noisy fan with a quieter cooling fan. That might not be possible (but then again, anything's possible). Based on my discussions with the Panasonic authorized repair technician who attempted to (but could not) reduce the decibel level of my Panny DLP's cooling fan, the cooling fan in the Panny DLP is deeply integrated within the electronics and software of the entire DLP light engine. Accordingly, you cannot simply pull out the cooling fan and retrofit the Panny DLP with a larger capacity fan or quieter cooling fan. You have to replace the entire light engine. The repair technician actually requested and received an entirely new light engine (including new cooling fan) from Panasonic, and he took out my set's existing light engine, and installed the "new" light engine (and fan) provided by Panasonic. Unfortunately, as you read in my post earlier today (Tuesday Nov. 2), when we turned on the Panny with the "new" light engine, the annoying fan noise was right there as always. FYI. Former Pan DLP Fan

FormerPanDLPFan,

Thanks for the insights on your experiences. This thread has given me and in a way "warned" me what to look out for when I look at this TV in a store. I have decided to certainly look out for the fan noise in this TV. Right now, these are on my list, in order of preference:
1) Panasonic DLP
2) Mitsubishi 52725 DLP
3) Samsung 5063 DLP
4) LCD rear projection - either Sony Grand Wega or Panasonic (have to research these more in case I decide not to go the DLP way after all)/

I have some time - I intend to buy around xmas. I am hoping Panasonic does something about the fan noise by then. Or some better models come out as well.

Well, below is just a personal thought...
But yes, getting value for money in every term and respect is very important (to me at least). No sacrifices here. It is my hard earned money, and I am not a rich person. Just a person hoping to keep his job and make it to retirement.

I have a used 1994 Nissan Altima SE. In a few months, it will be 11 years old. A few facts:
Price paid: $3850, with title fees in Jan 2003.
Condition: like new
Scrates: none
Door dings: none
Dents: none
Been in a wreck: never
Engine condition: excellent
Overall condition: excellent
Miles: 117,203
Just for sake of comparison, an 11 year old car, that I have driven from Texas to Iowa and back twice, and from Iowa to Missouri and Missouri to Illinios several times with a U-Haul trailer, has never given me any trouble whatsoever. I just do the regular maintenance and it works just fine.

Comparatively, in today's world of advanced technology that is a heck lot better than what it was 11 years ago, we still seem to get products from very reputed and experienced companies that do not perform up to our expectations, even when they are brand new...forget being old. Sometimes, I shudder to think how long these TVs will really last.

It is just human nature...when we have an urge to get something, we get it and then try to live with it.

I know I didn't make a mistake with my used car and I am gonna be sure as heck I don't with my TV - my car is more valuable and useful to me than a TV would ever be.

So good luck everyone!

Cheers.

Has anyone been successful in connecting a LG DV7832 via the DVI out of the DVD player to the Panasonic 50DL54?
I used the DVI cable that came with the LG unit and purchased an Ultrlalink DVI to HDMI adapter to connect it to the TV. When I power on the dvd player, it stays stuck on the 'Hello' display.
When I try the same DVI cable on the Rogers SA 3250HD box, the Panasonic TV displays an awesome picture via the HDMI input, which tells me that the cable is fine. The LG player works fine and upconverts, via the component connectors. Is this problem inherent with the LG player?

Where are some of you guys getting this set from. I know you can get it for much less than the retail price. But there are many places with very low prices. Which e-retailers can be trusted, and have a good reputation?

Please advise!

This is an interesting thread. I've been lurking for a while, gathering info for a Christmas/early '05 purchase. I went to Tweeter today to look at some of the sets everyone has been talking about. The set that really caught my eye is the Panasonic mentioned here- it had all I wanted (great pic quality, turner, reasonable inputs, and a smaller footprint than others). I was comparing it to a Mitsubishi with the glass removed and I thought it looked much better- this coming from a current Mitsu owner and supporter.

So I compared the fan noise of each, and I found the Mitsu to be MUCH louder than the Panny. None of the TV speakers were on in the room I was in, so there was just general ambient roomtone. I could hear the Mitsu's fans when standing 6 feet in front of it. I couldn't hear the Panny's fan at all- and even when sticking my head around the back to check out the connections I thought to myself that the fan noise was reasonably quiet.

I respect and thank all the posters reporting to watch out about fan noise. But after comparing two of the sets that I was thinking about, the Panasonic seemed to be the BETTER of the two in this area. Could this problem have been addressed by Panasonic, or maybe it's a case where some units are worse than others?

Thanks for reading and any comments.

Originally posted by DaverJ


So I compared the fan noise of each, and I found the Mitsu to be MUCH louder than the Panny. None of the TV speakers were on in the room I was in, so there was just general ambient roomtone. I could hear the Mitsu's fans when standing 6 feet in front of it. I couldn't hear the Panny's fan at all- and even when sticking my head around the back to check out the connections I thought to myself that the fan noise was reasonably quiet.



I had the exact same experience. In two different stores I've stuck my head around the back of the Panasonic about a foot from the fan vents/intakes on both sides of the TV. Compared to a nearby Mitsu the Panasonic's were significantly quieter.

I don't discount all the noise complaints that folks are talking about though. I've pretty much settled on the Panny for a purchase in a couple weeks (waiting for my new table/stand to arrive) but I'm pretty certain I will stick to a B&M store just because of the uncertainity around the noise issue.

well I've been lurking for sometimes as well and wanted to purchase a set sometimes around thanksgiving or close to Xmast.
The problem is ...in my area, there are no retailer with this set. One Compusa actually have it but it's not hooked up to HD, just regular standard SD.
And although I can't hear any fan noise, the Compusa store I visited has much ambient noise in the room so it's not a good place to judge.
I don't care for the side speaker but can probably live with it if it has good PQ and good price. Right now the Compusa I went to has it listed at MSRP.

I want to thank all who have posted here the much needed info to potential buyer like myself. It's been a great help.

Originally posted by sawyer1370
Where are some of you guys getting this set from. I know you can get it for much less than the retail price. But there are many places with very low prices. Which e-retailers can be trusted, and have a good reputation?

Please advise!

If you e-mail me I will be glad to let you know where I purchased my Panny, its a great price and good service. It took 2 weeks after my order to receive the set, via private trucking. I purchased my set at the end of August and the set is already selling for less than I paid.
Caboman
caboman@comcast.net

Panasonic announced a new DLP - PT50dld64 in Jan 04 - is based on the 50dl54 but includes CableCard, integrated HD tuners etc.... at announce it was to be avail Oct 04...anyone heard anything on this model ?

Whats your opinon of waiting for the new mod with CableCard vs the base 50dl54 ?

Im also wondering if the delay may have something to do with the noise probs described...may have a new fan.?

You know, the one I mentioned in post 1017 DID have a cablecard and integrated HD tuner... I didn't write down the model number- I thought I looked at it and it was the 54, but I didn't look closely. Maybe it IS the 64. I'll give Tweeter a call to see which one I was looking at.

Nice observation jfb!

Originally posted by jfb
Panasonic announced a new DLP - PT50dld64 in Jan 04 - is based on the 50dl54 but includes CableCard, integrated HD tuners etc.... at announce it was to be avail Oct 04...anyone heard anything on this model ?

Whats your opinon of waiting for the new mod with CableCard vs the base 50dl54 ?

Im also wondering if the delay may have something to do with the noise probs described...may have a new fan.?

Do you have a link to the announcement...if so, please post.

I'm waiting for integrated tuner sets for several reasons:
- OTA HDTV option, w/fewer compression artifacts from what I understand
- Less competition for the HDMI port: DVD goes there since HD tuner doesn't need it
- No separate HD tuner box: less clutter and fewer cables around the TV
- They're manufacturers' version 2 sets, giving them a chance to work out initial quality problems (fan noise, chromatic aberration...each one has its issues)

I'm waiting for the integrated Panasonic DLP because IMO it has the most stable, accurate image of any DLP or LCOS I've seen.

I'm trying to hold out until around YE because it gives other manufacturers like Optoma a chance to hit the market with promising new product. It's not easy, but it hurts less to wait since prices will continue to drop in general as we move into the new year. Read Wednesday's Wall Street Journal for a prediction of dramatic LCD and plasma price drops over the next year as new factories come online. RPTV will have to play along to remain competitive.

Heres the link - I'd like to see it released soon - not sure if the Christmas market or Super Bowl market is bigger for TV mfgs though...

Im new to the forum...so the forum wont let me post a web address yet.. lets try this...add the following to the panasonic.com address...

/consumer_electronics/pressroom/cont2.asp?Filter=12&cont_id=589

Does anyone have diminsions of the PT-50DL54 in the box? I want to know if I am going to be able to fit this sucker in my SUV or not. Can it be laid on its side or only upright to transport when boxed and packaged from the manufacturer.
Spencer

I am planning on putting this unit in a corner. How tight will it fit into a corner including a stand. Looking at a demo unit it would appear to fit pretty tight but would like to know from real experience. Any measurements on how large the total size of the triangle will need to be for it to fit into the corner would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Spencer

The only mesurement I took was the footprint of the base, which was 40" across.

I called Tweeter salesman and he says the unit I was looking at was the 54. :/ But he insists it has cablecard, and I saw a fairly big slot next to the SD slot in the front- roughly the same size as a computer notebook card.

Could they have the wrong display info card taped to this unit and that's what he's going off of, or is the big slot on the front something else?

Originally posted by DaverJ
I called Tweeter salesman and he says the unit I was looking at was the 54. :/ But he insists it has cablecard, and I saw a fairly big slot next to the SD slot in the front- roughly the same size as a computer notebook card.

Could they have the wrong display info card taped to this unit and that's what he's going off of, or is the big slot on the front something else?

I've seen lots of descriptions from Internet retailers of the PT-50DL54 that refer mistakenly to PT-50DLD64 features, and a few even have the incorrect model name in the description. Tweeter should know better, however, so I don't know that this applies.

Coincidentally, I'm headed off to Tweeter right now to see the 50DL54, and I'll ask them about this confusion.

Originally posted by jfb
Heres the link - I'd like to see it released soon - not sure if the Christmas market or Super Bowl market is bigger for TV mfgs though...

Im new to the forum...so the forum wont let me post a web address yet.. lets try this...add the following to the panasonic.com address...

/consumer_electronics/pressroom/cont2.asp?Filter=12&cont_id=589

Don't ask me why, but I misread your earlier post as referring to a new announcement. I emailed Panasonic several weeks ago about availability of the 50DLD64 and was told there would be an announcement in November, so we should find out availibility and MSRP before long. The 50DL54 has penetrated the market so slowly that there seems to be a big difference with Panasonic between "availability" and "you can actually go to a store and see one."

My price drop reference was geared toward near-term benefit from longer-term forces, not specific Christmas or Super Bowl sales (although that's great if we catch the right one). Mitsubishi recently had a $300 savings deal on their DLP, and Panasonic just dropped the 50DL54 MSRP by $200. I believe the pre-Super Bowl period is the top TV sales time, but I'm not sure whether that coincides with good sale prices or maximum profit-taking.

Originally posted by cmonsammy
I've seen lots of descriptions from Internet retailers of the PT-50DL54 that refer mistakenly to PT-50DLD64 features, and a few even have the incorrect model name in the description.

I would love to hear a follow-up after your trip to Tweeter. If you saw the 54, did it have two slots in the front? One has the "SD" logo for Secure Digital cards, but I'm curious about the other slot.... The salesman I was talking to didn't seem that into this stuff. :rolleyes:

-dw

Im looking forward to the Panasonic news on the 50DLD64 ... but Im interested in opinions ... outside of the onboard tuner and CCard how does the PT-50LCX64 stack up against 50DL54 ? in other words...DLP or LCD ? Thanks.

Originally posted by ayeow
Has anyone been successful in connecting a LG DV7832 via the DVI out of the DVD player to the Panasonic 50DL54?
I used the DVI cable that came with the LG unit and purchased an Ultrlalink DVI to HDMI adapter to connect it to the TV. When I power on the dvd player, it stays stuck on the 'Hello' display.
When I try the same DVI cable on the Rogers SA 3250HD box, the Panasonic TV displays an awesome picture via the HDMI input, which tells me that the cable is fine. The LG player works fine and upconverts, via the component connectors. Is this problem inherent with the LG player?

This is a common problem with the LG.

You are stuck with component. It's a known issue so don't get worried about the TV :)

I'm saving my HDMI for the Rogers SA 3250HD Box coming in two days. Where did u get your HDMI -> DVI converter btw?

Originally posted by DaverJ
I would love to hear a follow-up after your trip to Tweeter. If you saw the 54, did it have two slots in the front? One has the "SD" logo for Secure Digital cards, but I'm curious about the other slot.... The salesman I was talking to didn't seem that into this stuff. :rolleyes:

-dw

I saw the 50DL54 at Tweeter today and asked the salesman about the larger card slot in the front. He said it's a PCMCIA format slot, so it's a complement to the SD slot, not for CableCard. As I thought, he said CableCard slots will typically be on the back of the set.

Interestingly, as I was leaving another salesman was telling a customer about the set, and said, "and that slot in front is for CableCard." Seems like they have a training issue. :(

Originally posted by cmonsammy
He said it's a PCMCIA format slot,

I figured it was something like that. Thanks for checking into this issue.

...but now I'm not sure why a TV needs a PCMCIA slot. What kind of card would go in there, and what would it do for a TV? SD I understand, but a slot designed for modems, ethernet, etc....?

Originally posted by DaverJ
I figured it was something like that. Thanks for checking into this issue.

...but now I'm not sure why a TV needs a PCMCIA slot. What kind of card would go in there, and what would it do for a TV?

The slot is for your digital camera memory, and you can view your photos with the set. It's cool and will do a slide show.

Originally posted by vizual
This is a common problem with the LG.

You are stuck with component. It's a known issue so don't get worried about the TV :)

I'm saving my HDMI for the Rogers SA 3250HD Box coming in two days. Where did u get your HDMI -> DVI converter btw?

I got the Ultralink DVI-> HDMI adapter from Audio Video 2001.

Could any 50DL54 owners here please respond to my question if they have a chance:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=466855

I'm really curious if this audio/video sync is common place amongst DLPs and just the severity is (ie. REALLY bad on Sammys) questionable?

Also the the fact of how sensitive my monster cables are is frightening.

DVD playing, black screen with continuous red scan lines..

/me begins to panic.

/me simply taps his monster component cable in the back and voila! screen back to normal?! wtf?!

Can the AVIA disc be used to correct overscan?

Originally posted by karlhungus
I have a black shadow at the bottom center edge of the TV, like something is blocking the projector. Has anyone had this problem?

Also, I have DVI HDMI cable running from Comcast HD DVR, but I cant get a picture with the HDMI selected....TV problem, box problem, cable? I cant figure it out and I dont have any other DVI devices..

Other than that TV is unreal. UVA/Clem game right now is solid.

You probably figured this out by now, but if you need to use the HDMI -> DVI adaptor you need to hook up audio through analog.

I had the same problem where I had no picture. Then I unplugged my audio cables and got a picture fine. Plugged audio back into the analog feed and worked like a charm.

Word to the wise, if you use an HDMI adaptor on a already heavy DVI cable, the connection will most certainly not stay on by itself due to the shallowness of the TV's HDMI input. The way I went (after I returned my DVI cable and adaptor), and it seems to work well, is with the Hybrid cable, seems to be a much better connection.

Here is a pic of the new setup.

I reallly want to like this TV and/or the Toshiba. I have seen both of them in many stores and I don't care for either of them. THey both have clay looking skin tones and when people move I see blurring.

I really like the Samsung HLP, but have been scared off from it because of the audio sync problem.

I was out today and the set that caught my eye was the 50WE655. I saw no blurring and the picture was really sharp.

I don't know which one to get!!!!!!!!!!!

Can anyone post their powerstrip settings? I'm using an ATI 9600XT with a component output.

Thanks.

Beautiful picture T40602L

I really want to like this TV. I have only seen it in one store where I live. It didn't look that good. It looked good untill there was movement. Like when a person turns their head. It gets blurry and the skin tone lookes like red clay. Is this normal for this set or a bad signal? It was on HDNET.

I really want this tv but am not sure about it.

I saw on the other day for the first time and was stunded by the PQ. You might want to see if they had it tuned wrong.

Also consider the source... The first time I saw this set it was playing something on HDNet that was very pixelated and jittery. The salesman changed the channel to another HD source and it looked perfect.

Cool!!! I will look around for another place to check this set out.

Upscaling

I vaguely recall on this forum that someone said that the panny DLP would upscale a DVD to 720p. So one did not have to buy an upscaling DVD player. But I can't find anything in the panny manual about this upscaling. Can anyone help? Thanks.

I just received my PT-50DL54 on Saturday.

I was set on the Sammy 5685. I shopped every store in the city and this is the set that I always went back to. It did seem to be lacking in SD programming. I saw the PT50DL at Comp USA. Picture was horrible due to the feed. Then I went to Tweeter on Friday and they had the Panny on display. Picture was as good or better than the Sony and Mits. Price $2699.

I made the purchase then went to CC for a stand.

Do not judge a TV by what you see in the large chain stores. The Panny picture is better than my Elite 530 Pro in SD and superior in HD. Greens (mostly grass and leaves) are not accurate on most SD and is off on a lot of HD. I call it the electric green color.

One problem. The fan noise is noticable. It is similar to amp hum in a speaker when there is no source connected to it and is noticable at movie levels higher than I normally listen to.

I do not think that there is a DLP or LCD with better picture quality in both SD and HD but the fan noise may be more than I can tolerate.

are there any news on the 50dl64 model? maybe they've fixed the noise issue on this set?

I found a review on this model, thought I post it here for everyone to see...

http://www.dlptvreview.com/dlptvreviews/panasonic-pt50dl54.html

Good read RudyMeister. Thanks for the link.

Guys, im a current Toshiba DLP owner but thinking of jumping ship over to Panny DLP because of the following:

1. Loud buzzing sound - could be from the fan or colorwheel
2. Clay face effect on panning camera
3. Green Push - objects seem to have predominantly green tinting on them, like shades of green when it's supposed to be yellowish in color.
4. Poor performance for both HD and upconverting DVD players over
HDMI..picture becomes so dark...so dark that dark objects tend to have a greenish hue on them. there has been several reports on this from toshiba owners.
5. PQ inferior to Panny?

Now, can anyone please tell me if any of the above are also experienced with the panny? is there anything else negative about the panny that you want to add to the list? of course please feel free to point out the advantages of the panny over the toshiba. this thread has grown way too big for me to read each and every post, i look forward to your responses...thanks!

My set was quiet at first but I swear this thign gets louder and louder each day.

I've had it exactly one week (picked it up last saturday) and it is just as loud as a friggin xbox now.

BTW, has anyone exchanged their set for a different panny to see if this noise is universal? I want to return my TV for teh same exact one to see if this is a defect or something. I'm not even fussy about fan noise but this is just retarded.

I already bought the custom stand for it though so I am stuck =[

Originally posted by FSXv13
My set was quiet at first but I swear this thign gets louder and louder each day.



Thanks for confirming this- the description of the Xbox made it very clear what you are hearing. This set WAS at the top of my list for a purchase, but the more people who post about this problem the more I'm leaning toward the Sony Grand Wega LCD.

But I'm sorry this has happened to you- you are not alone in this complaint...even down to the fact that it's fine at first but gets worse. I hope you find a solution!

I had 2 panny's, both had fan noise problems. I returned both for the RCA DLP. However I know think that its universal with DLP's to have fan noise. THe RCA does too but I think I can use my hutch to calm the noise down. The hutch would not fit around the panny.

Really is it too much to ask for a quiet set?

Oh, I also considered the 725 mits. It has 5 fans, one stays on all of the time. Even in the store it was loud. That says something!

Originally posted by FSXv13
BTW, has anyone exchanged their set for a different panny to see if this noise is universal? I want to return my TV for teh same exact one to see if this is a defect or something. I'm not even fussy about fan noise but this is just retarded.

I already bought the custom stand for it though so I am stuck =[

Been there, done that. Exchanged my 60' for another brand new 60' and the noise is in fact universal - it was exactly the same. I've had it for about 7 weeks and there is no increase in fan noise at all. I has been constant. To be honest, it bothered me at first since I was coming from a silent Sony CRT set. Now it doesn't bother me at all, I heardly notice the noise. I think over time, like someone mentioned before in previous post about this issue, you just learn to ignore it.

Originally posted by zeicht
Guys, im a current Toshiba DLP owner but thinking of jumping ship over to Panny DLP because of the following:

1. Loud buzzing sound - could be from the fan or colorwheel

Panny is also reknown to have a somewhat loud fan. It seems to vary from one set to the other though, as for some people it's really not an issue, and for others it is the top issue. In my case, although I find it loud, I realize it's not really an issue since I end up noticing it only when I turn off the set at the end of the night, after turning off the receiver, PVR, and HTPC.

2. Clay face effect on panning camera

You will still have that with the Panny. It seems to be a DLP technology issue, not a specific brand issue. In my opinion, it's the worst negative point for the DLP technology (like LCD has screendoor and poor black and CRT has burn-in and bulkiness).

For non DLP owner reading this thread: it's often called clay-face on panning camera, but I rather call it posterization, since it affects any area with some color gradient which is moving on screen, it's like a severe loss of color resolution during the movement (which can be a camera panning, or simply a part of the image itself moving on the screen.

Originally posted by Omega2002
I've had it for about 7 weeks and there is no increase in fan noise at all. I has been constant.

This might have been mentioned, but maybe the increasing of the fan noise is a perception thing? I would imagine when an excited individual gets a new HDTV the attention is on the picture and the speakers are turned up louder than normal. After a few days when the excitement wears off and things calm down maybe what seems minor starts to seem major.

Just got the Panny DLP a couple of days ago from Future shop. I was hoping to get the "low noise" model. I was unlucky. Another user on this post mentioned that he had to set the volume level to 13 to drown out the noise. I still hear it at that level. Its not too bad. Once you are into a good movie you stop being aware of it. My wife is not bothered by it. Picture quality is very nice. I followed Topps settings, and they made a nice difference.

I was also unlucky to have a bit of skew. The left side of the picture is about 1/4 " wider than the right side. I checked some of the test patterns in the service menu (there is a grid pattern) which obviously showed the skew. The skew is not really noticeable in normal viewing unless you stare at it for a while and confirm it with a tape measure.

I got a bit adventurous and tried to fix the skew with the mechanical adjustments. I found the focus adjustment and I was able to slightly improve the focus (very slightly, it was already good enough). I couldn't find the skew/tilt adjustment. All I noticed were 2 sets of 4 screws. Turning them did not do anything, it just loosened them. They see to be there just to hold the unit in place. I ordered the service manual, should get it by Monday. I also called for home service to make sure there is nothing else wrong with the TV. I'll keep you all posted. Thanks for all the great information in this thread. This has been really helpful

Thanks povmec for your response, how about the remaining questions below, anyone would like to comment on the issues?

thanks!

Problems / negatives of Toshiba DLP

3. Green Push - objects seem to have predominantly green tinting on them, like shades of green when it's supposed to be yellowish in color.

4. Poor performance for both HD and upconverting DVD players over
HDMI..picture becomes too dark...so dark that dark objects tend to have a greenish hue on them. there has been several reports on this from toshiba owners.

5. PQ inferior to Panny?

Now, can anyone please tell me if any of the above are also experienced with the panny? is there anything else negative about the panny that you want to add to the list? of course please feel free to point out the advantages of the panny over the toshiba. this thread has grown way too big for me to read each and every post, i look forward to your responses...thanks!

Well, after spending countless hours on this site, and agonizing over the purchase, I pulled the trigger last week and got my TV yesterday. I saw a great deal and couldn't resist any more. (Got it from an authorized Panny dealer and Panny said they would support the set even if I ordered it online. No tax and free white glove shipping.)

The fan noise is noticeable, but not that much louder than my PS2. I have so much ambient noise in my apartment that it doesn't bother me too much. I need to turn the volume up to 12 or 13 to drown out the noise, but to be honest, if I'm watching the set and not paying attention to the noise, I tune it out regardless of the volume.

The HD picture is FANTASTIC! Especially on PBSHD and INHD. Of course, the source does matter, cuz HBO is hit or miss. I'm running the video through components right now. SD is some what lacking, especially NBC. There is so much noise that it's almost unwatchable. Luckily, I have NBC HD. :) Some of the other channels aren't too bad, nor are the SD HBO channels. I don't have an upscaling DVD, so can't comment on that. And saddly, I'm using my PS2 as my DVD player for now. It wasn't bad for Two Towers, especially the battle scene at Helm's Deep. But I'll reserve final judgement until I get a decent DVD player. Any suggestions? I'd like something less than $300, closer to $200 if possible.

BTW, is there anything I can do to improve the SD PQ?

So far, so good. I do like this TV a lot! But I'm keeping that box just in case. Oh yeah, the place I bought it, **************, has a 30 day no questions asked money back return policy. You just need to pay for shipping (if there is nothing wrong with the set), which is $100. For what I paid for the thing, it was well worth the gamble.

I also put it on a Z line stand (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Z-Line-Designs-TV-Stand--23541S-/sem/rpsm/oid/69535/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do)that I picked up from CC for $150, it looks fantastic. It might be 2 to 3 inches higher than I would like, but over all, I'm a happy camper.

I think I found my Mojo. :D

Originally posted by AustPwrs I also put it on a Z line stand (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Z-Line-Designs-TV-Stand--23541S-/sem/rpsm/oid/69535/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do)that I picked up from CC for $150, it looks fantastic. It might be 2 to 3 inches higher than I would like, but over all, I'm a happy camper. I started out with that stand but returned it because it was about 6" too high and just didn't look right. I ended up with a wooden coffee table with an under shelf perfect for my black boxes.

I can deal with the noise, but I do have to admit it gets to me that an item with a MSRP of 3200 dollars sounds like my 150 dollar gaming machine...

ah well...

Can anyone reccomend some good splitters that minimize signal loss? MY HD signal seemed great until I hooked up my second TV. Really need something to get this thing looking somewhat better. Admittedly I am using the component cables that came with teh HD cable box ( they look and are cheap as all hell). I do have a set of 300 dollar wires as loaners that I am using to run from teh receiver to the TV, but the components going to the receiver from the Cable box are cheap =\ I guess I should try a direct connect.

If anyone has any tips for improving a HD signal that is split between 2 tv's and cable modem please let me know. If you suggest items please list full names of items so I can search for places to buy them.

Thanks guys.

Well... bit the bullet and bought the Panny DLP 50". I am happy with the TV and glad I got it. I bought it with the Pnasonic LCD stand, though the DLP stand made it look bulky. The LCD stand fits nicely and is a fair better price than the DLP stand. The only problem is that they are discontinued so quantities are limited. I got mine of the shop floor, so paid even less than the cost price.
I have had the set for one week, overall PQ is good even with regular cable, although got a HDTV cable box and digital cable looks a lot better with the component video.
As for the Fan noise, I do hear it, it is as loud as the PS2. It seemed that it got lounder the first few days and then settled. My wife does not really hear it, but I hear. I have noticed that it does change frequency once and a while. I do believe that the vibration is transfered through the housing of the TV, making the fan noise lounder. I tried slightly pushing with my figures on the housing near the fan and the noise changes. So it is the fan making the noise. That being said I can live the noise, but I rather not. Since it is a ovious problem with Panny DLP, how do we solve it?
Has anybody tried replacing it with another fan? Maybe a Panaflow fan? As anybody tried isolating it to the from the housing using rubber washer, comon with computer fans? Or replacing the fan with a same flow but lower RPM?
Does anybody know if the fan is easily acceptible? How the fan is connected to its power sluppy? The voltage rating of the fan? the physical dimensions of the fan? and the flow (cubic feet per minute) of the fan? If we can get the answers to these question we should be able to find a fan that would replace the current one and make the TV quiete and more enjoyable.

Picture Quality question...

I am new to HDTV. I have a progressive scan DVD player with p-scan enabled. my component wires I used to hook the DVD to the TV were 300 dollar 6 foot cables...

As a reference point...In Attack of the Clones, when Obi Wan circles off the screen (right after Anakin gets lightning bolted to the corner) Obi Wans lightsaber becomes jagged...

Why?

As a matter of fact I am seeing this a lot in the set... I just wanted to give a reference point for other owners to check. WHy are images jagged? These aren't video games we are talking about... This even happens on his shirt edges as well while he is moving...

Can anyone help me out with fixing this or lettign me know if this is the way it is suposed to be? I have sharpness to 0...

Originally posted by orangetabby


Has anybody tried replacing it with another fan? Maybe a Panaflow fan? As anybody tried isolating it to the from the housing using rubber washer, comon with computer fans? Or replacing the fan with a same flow but lower RPM?
Does anybody know if the fan is easily acceptible? How the fan is connected to its power sluppy? The voltage rating of the fan? the physical dimensions of the fan? and the flow (cubic feet per minute) of the fan? If we can get the answers to these question we should be able to find a fan that would replace the current one and make the TV quiete and more enjoyable.

Someone posted that the fans are part of the light engine. It might not be possible to simply swap the fans out for quieter models. Short of building an outside enclosure to reduce the fan noise, I don't think this is a fix that we should be tackling. I think the best thing we can do is file complaints with Panasonic and hope that the issue gets kicked up to someone who can authorize a real repair. But I'm not holding my breath for a fix...


I have owned my 50 for about 2 months. I still really love this set. It is fantastic for movies and hdtv. I think the set has the most amazing PQ, in my opinion it surpasses plasma. The fan noise is an issue though. My "fix" will be to move my tv into a larger room. Currently, the set is in my small bedroom where I sit 9 feet from the screen. I will move the panasonic into the home theater that I am building where it will be enclosed on the sides. I will be about 15 feet from the screen and my home theater will have a much larger speakers so it will help mask the fan noise. Now, to replace the panny i have my eye on the new dell 42" plasma. if prices drop to the low $2000 range next year then I'll buy it. the plasma is probably a better fit for the bedroom anyways.

Tweeter is having an unadvertised Customer Appreciation Sale this weekend, 10% off all TVs and serivice contracts. They have the price for this set posted as $3499. I was at three different stores, and only 1 salesperson was aware they had actually lowered the price to $2999. They had hours of training on the Mits, none on the Panny. Two salesguys said it only had the HD2 chip, not the HD2+, only had a 6 color wheel... Bottom line, it's $2999 less 10% this weekend only.

Originally posted by DaverJ
This might have been mentioned, but maybe the increasing of the fan noise is a perception thing? I would imagine when an excited individual gets a new HDTV the attention is on the picture and the speakers are turned up louder than normal. After a few days when the excitement wears off and things calm down maybe what seems minor starts to seem major.

This not a perception issue. I noticed the fan noise once the TV sales techs plugged in the set and turned it on from day 1. My replacement fan was worse. My replacement set was a bit better.

Fan noise is a REAL issue on DLP's. WIRED magazine has a sister publication called TEST and in it they rated some DLP's and mentioned FAN NOISE, yes FAN NOISE as a con. MITSU model said to have noticeable fan noise. OPTOMO model said to have loud fan noise.

There are enough people who voted on the POLL for one to believe that the PANNY sets DO HAVE A FAN NOISE ISSUE AS WELL. For those who don't hear it, there could be that much variation in the fans, too much white noise in their surroundings, their hearing might be poor, etc.

I really really like the picture on this set. It's my leading contender at the moment. I was nearly set on the Toshiba 52HMX84, but then saw this set.

But does anyone know when Panasonic will be releasing a similar model that incorporates an integrated ATSC tuner?

Thanks in advance.

For those people asking about the fan in this unit, here is how to see it:

1) Remove the front on the tv base. This is the silver colored plastic panel along the bottom. It just pops off.

2) On the left hand side (just off center) there is a black plastic panel held in postion by a single screw. It has a white warning sticker on it. Remove the screw and then the panel to reveal the lamp house.

3) Remove the screw securing the lamp module and remove the lamp module.

4) Look into the lamp house. At the top you will see the fan which blows air downwards onto the lamp. Note that it is secured in a metal housing.

My estimate is that the lamp is a 60x60x30mm fan, similar to the fan on this cpu heatsink (http://www.dynatron-corp.com/products/cpucooler/cpucooler_model.asp?id=64). I had one of these heatsinks in the past and that fan was loud!

I have had a lot of experience experimenting with computer cooling and I would suggest that there is no easy way to deal with the noisy fan in this tv. The fan is noisy because it is necessarily fast. To replace it with quieter (and slower) fan, it would almost certainly result in running the lamp hotter. The only safe way to reduce noise would be to install a larger slower fan (e.g. 120x120x25mm) with a funnel shroud... and good luck squeezing all that inside the set.

Originally posted by Ciao
This not a perception issue. I noticed the fan noise once the TV sales techs plugged in the set and turned it on from day 1. My replacement fan was worse. My replacement set was a bit better.

Fan noise is a REAL issue on DLP's.

Ciao...

I was not asking if fan noise was a perception issue... I was posing a theory that the *INCREASING* of the fan noise over time might be a perception issue.

It's been stated over and over that DLPs have fan noise, but some people claimed that it gets worse after a couple days or weeks and others claim it's the same from day one. My post was a theory that for both camps it's the same from day 1 but it's not noticed at first because of the excitement of getting a new set.

Help! I just purchased a DVI-HDMI cable from Pacific Cable and when I tried to hook it up I got a bunch of colored dots all over the screen. I am going from a SA 4200HD STB to my PT50dl54. I've reset the STB and used the setup wizard several times using different settings with no luck. There is a picture mixed in with the dots, so a signal is getting thru. Anybody out there been successful with this type setup? BTW...When using the component inputs and outputs the PQ is unreal!

Originally posted by john caravello
Help! I just purchased a DVI-HDMI cable from Pacific Cable and when I tried to hook it up I got a bunch of colored dots all over the screen. I am going from a SA 4200HD STB to my PT50dl54. I've reset the STB and used the setup wizard several times using different settings with no luck. There is a picture mixed in with the dots, so a signal is getting thru. Anybody out there been successful with this type setup? BTW...When using the component inputs and outputs the PQ is unreal!


I am using a DVI/HDMI cable to connect my Bell Express Vu high def satellite receiver to my panny. No dots. The high def pictures vary somewhat in quality, all of them at least very good. The best are stunning, spectacular, jaw dropping. I had to set the satellite receiver to 720p output.

Does anyone know why the hi def pictures vary in quality? The images differ in sharpness. The best pictures seem to come from ABC, Fox, and the Movie Channel (on channel 841). Could it be that they transmit using 720p and the other networks use 1080i?

As a test, try setting your receiver output to 1080i. I would assume that the 720p channels would suffer in quality as they are up-converted to 1080i by the receiver and then down-converted to 720p by the Panny. The 1080i channels should go untouched by the receiver where the Panny would down convert to 720p. Similarly, if you set the output to 720p, the 720p channels should give you the best quality (no conversion), whereas the 1080i channels are down-converted by the receiver to 720p. I read somewhere in this thread that the Panny is better at down-coverting to 720p than some cable boxes. I would assume that it may apply to your satellite receiver as well.

I have a Rogers Cable SA3250HD STB connected via a DVI-HDMI cable to the PT-50DL54 and I get an amazing picture. The improvement is very slight over component though.

The DVI-HDMI cable doesn't work for the LG7832 DVD player though. It just locks up the player.

I've had the Panny for about a week now. I have to agree with most people here. When the signal is good, HD is unbelievable. I find it amazing that I sit there and just smile at how amazing the picture is. However, the SD is somewhat lacking. Some channels are watchable though.

However, I've notice that there is slight lip sync issues. I know someone brought this up before, and I'm wondering if others have noticed it too. It might be my feed, but I notice it in HD too. I've not had enough time to really see if it is universal, ie dvd too. Besides, I don't have a real dvd player yet...using my PS2 for now. (Any suggestions for a upscaling DVD for around $200? Not sure if I'll need DVI since the PQ I get from components is quiet good from my Comcast cable box, even using their cheap cables!)

Speaking of PS2. I seem to be getting my butt kicked on SOCOM II online. I know I'm lacking in skills as of now. But I seem to be a little slow on the draw. When I want to fire, there is a slight delay. Has anyone notice some delays when playing PS2 games, especially those that are sensitive to timing like Madden, or first person shooters? If so, is there a fix. I love playing on widescreen. But it won't be fun if I get killed cuz of lag.

Thanks,

Austin Powers

A fellow co-worker of mine picked up a 60" Panny DLP after I highly recommended them.

I love my 50".

Problem though with the 60" is the following:

"I just got a brand new Panasonic 60" DLP.

After the TV has been on for about 5 - 10 minutes I get bright white vertical lines about one inch apart across the entire screen."

as described by my co-worker. Anyone heard of an issue such as this before or what might be causing it?

Visual,

I have the 60" and have had no problems with white lines.

PQ on the 60" is stunning in HD. Exra screen size is huge compared to the 50" Definitely worth the extra money.

Could be source that is causing the lines - did you try different sources?

I did have a fan issue. Turned on power button one morning and power led went from green to red. TV wouldn't come on. Technician came over and discovered that the fan had a flat spot. He got the fan temporarily working and has one on order from Panasonic to replace under warranty.

I will let you guys know how that goes.

Also, no lag or voice problems with xbox

After years of study, finally pull the trigger to 50' Panny, This thing just last for 20 minutes, then my wife ask me to pack it up. Why? Fan Noise too loud, the fan noise is unbelively troublesome, the kind of frequency is just make you sick, very very upset.

I noticed this problem from this thread, and thought people are just too picky about noise, and I am not one of them, so I go ahead and get it, because I think Panny DLP having the best features and input.

Just got it exchange to a Sony GWIV 50', hope it will be better.

Very Very upset. I hope people understand how I feel. I really like the Panny DLP.

How could Panasonic giving out such a lousy fan for a high end model like this.

Hi All:

I was just wondering if anyone has a definitive answer on whether an SD signal from digital satellite (Bell ExVu 2700 w/ s-video capability, along w/ the mandatory RCA jack for video) is watchable, barely watchable, or really good for SD?

In case you're wondering I've searched this thread under satellite (12 posts), bell (2) expressvu (2) and dishnet (0) posts and haven't gotten an answer as to whether I should pay $3500-$4000 for a TV or keep my 32" CRT JVC

Also, does anyone know what the output is (480p - 480i I assume) for a DVB system such as Bell Canada (where I am) or the equivalent Dishnet (States) which I assume is the same output?

Thanks In Advance

Jim W

PS I am seriously looking at the Panny 50" and I am SURE that someone is in the same boat as I am. :-)

Originally posted by superMO
After years of study, finally pull the trigger to 50' Panny, This thing just last for 20 minutes, then my wife ask me to pack it up. Why? Fan Noise too loud, the fan noise is unbelively troublesome, the kind of frequency is just make you sick, very very upset.

I noticed this problem from this thread, and thought people are just too picky about noise, and I am not one of them, so I go ahead and get it, because I think Panny DLP having the best features and input.

Just got it exchange to a Sony GWIV 50', hope it will be better.

Very Very upset. I hope people understand how I feel. I really like the Panny DLP.

How could Panasonic giving out such a lousy fan for a high end model like this.

I know exactly how you feel. Unfortunately I could only get a credit note from my retailer, so I my bargaining power for another TV was greatly diminished, plus my "research" still pointed out to the PANNY for PQ. My second choice is non-DLP and the SONY you picked. Unfortunately, the new 60" SONY's are not available yet.

Anybody remember what page the FAN NOISE POLL was on?

As for the post about Socom II. I don't know if you are a beginer or not, but I played a few hours and had the same feeling as you did, but I was not playing on my Panny DLP.
I did play Madden, and did not notice any game dely, both when kicking and when changing players after a kickoff.

As for the lip sync. I had a friend come tune my TV and we checked the matching of the audio and video. My PSII was used as the DVD and connected with component cable to the TV, and the sound with a optical out to the receiver. The audio and video were bang on. Did not check the sound directly connected to the TV. Now I had the feeling that people are lip syncing, but it is not a timing issue, but I do believe is a the location of were the sound is coming from. It apears that the sound is coming from the side of the tv and not from the people talking. I also sit about 6 feet from the tv, so that may increase that.

As for the fan noise, there must be two around the same area, one on top of the light and one on the side. You can see the one on the side, by looking into the exhaust.

guys, do you experience "ghosting" issues over HDMI? im thinking of replacing my tosh dlp with the panny due to ghosting...please advise thanks!

Panasoinc 60" DLP

Click the following images....

that *SHOULD* not be happening. My co-worker is having his TV replaced because of this...

second image of white lines issue:

Originally posted by zeicht
guys, do you experience "ghosting" issues over HDMI? im thinking of replacing my tosh dlp with the panny due to ghosting...please advise thanks!

I have the 50 inch Panny with five different signal sources. Signal comes from Shaw cable, hi def Bell Exress Vu receiver, new dual PVR Bell Express Vu receiver, new Panny upscaling DVD player, and tuner from old Sony VCR. No ghosting from any signal source--either the hi def source or the SD sources. I use HDMI for the hi def Bell receiver and for the DVD player.

Originally posted by Clear Image
I have the 50 inch Panny with five different signal sources. Signal comes from Shaw cable, hi def Bell Exress Vu receiver, new dual PVR Bell Express Vu receiver, new Panny upscaling DVD player, and tuner from old Sony VCR. No ghosting from any signal source--either the hi def source or the SD sources. I use HDMI for the hi def Bell receiver and for the DVD player.

hi thanks for your response...im from canada too...i have the bell hi def too n i see ghosting over hdmi on the tosh, also with upconverting dvd player...pardon me for asking this but you do know what ghosting is, right? just wana make sure...my 30 day return policy is about to end so im kinda in a rush to make a decision...by the way, how's the fan noise in your unit? read that the panny has some fan noise issues...

link to "ghosting" pics:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4649823#post4649823

Hi Zeicht,

No problem with your asking about ghosting. I call ghosting the appearance of a dim image of something superimposed on the main image. Ghosting can be a dim second image of the main image appearing just to the side of the main image. For over the air signals, this can result from the signal being reflected from a nearby building and appearing on the screen as an entire second image, very dim, appearing just to the side of the main image. Ghosting can also be the dim image of another TV show dimly superimposed on the show you are watching. I assume either of these cases are a form of ghosting. Neither problem appears with my set up. Do you use over the air signals?

Ghosting should be a thing of the past with digital transmission. However, it could be a result of using low quality cables, or problems with the receiver box, but if you have a selection of receivers and cables and it happens with them all, it's most likely to be a "feature" of the tv, IMHO.

Originally posted by Clear Image
Hi Zeicht,

No problem with your asking about ghosting. I call ghosting the appearance of a dim image of something superimposed on the main image. Ghosting can be a dim second image of the main image appearing just to the side of the main image. For over the air signals, this can result from the signal being reflected from a nearby building and appearing on the screen as an entire second image, very dim, appearing just to the side of the main image. Ghosting can also be the dim image of another TV show dimly superimposed on the show you are watching. I assume either of these cases are a form of ghosting. Neither problem appears with my set up. Do you use over the air signals?


hi, no i dont use OTA signals...where are you from? vancouver? i am....do we have OTA signals here? regarding ghosting, i dont think it's from another signal coz the "ghost" is exactly the shape of the main image...like letters. please see the link to sample pics of ghosting i posted...they r good examples...so you don't see those on your panny over HDMI correct? a good way of checking is when you press the guide button on the expressvu controller....on the screen, i can cleary see ghosting on the letters (white on blue background) over HDMI on my toshiba, but over component there is none. Kindly check again thanks! really appreciate it buddy

Bell Express Vu -- 720p vs 1080i

My 50-inch Panny is fed by a Bell Express Vu 6100 hi def satellite receiver. According to Bell's instructions, I set the receiver to 720p output because this matches the Panny's native format. Networks transmitting 720p signals (Fox, ABC, etc.) produced spectacular pictures but networks transmitting 1080i signals (NBC, CBS, etc.) produced pictures with very noticeably less sharpness. I followed Lightbender's suggestion on this forum and set the receiver to 1080i output. This produced a very noticeable increase in sharpness in pictures from networks transmitting 1080i signals and a very slight, barely noticeable, reduction in sharpness in pictures from networks transmitting 720p. So now, I set the receiver to 1080i to watch NBC and CBS, letting the Panny downconvert to 720p, and set the receiver to 720p to watch Fox and ABC .

Apparently, better results are obtained with the Bell 6100 receiver by letting the Panny downconvert 1080i to 720p than by letting the receiver do this. Much better results. Owners of other hi def receivers might consider trying this experiment.

Originally posted by lightbender
Just got the Panny DLP a couple of days ago from Future shop. I was hoping to get the "low noise" model. I was unlucky. Another user on this post mentioned that he had to set the volume level to 13 to drown out the noise. I still hear it at that level. Its not too bad. Once you are into a good movie you stop being aware of it. My wife is not bothered by it. Picture quality is very nice. I followed Topps settings, and they made a nice difference.

I was also unlucky to have a bit of skew. The left side of the picture is about 1/4 " wider than the right side. I checked some of the test patterns in the service menu (there is a grid pattern) which obviously showed the skew. The skew is not really noticeable in normal viewing unless you stare at it for a while and confirm it with a tape measure.

I got a bit adventurous and tried to fix the skew with the mechanical adjustments. I found the focus adjustment and I was able to slightly improve the focus (very slightly, it was already good enough). I couldn't find the skew/tilt adjustment. All I noticed were 2 sets of 4 screws. Turning them did not do anything, it just loosened them. They see to be there just to hold the unit in place. I ordered the service manual, should get it by Monday. I also called for home service to make sure there is nothing else wrong with the TV. I'll keep you all posted. Thanks for all the great information in this thread. This has been really helpful

Got some updates:

The service manual is quite bad. There is only one page dedicated to the mechanical adjustments and it seems very unclear. I waited for the technician before attempting anything myself. Unfortunately, I wasn't there when he tried to fix the set. He was unable to remove the skew as he said it started from the middle of the screen. I plan on sending the unit back for an exchange, the techniciamn suspects the unit is defective. Could also be when the delivery guys lifted the unit to place it on the stand. They were holding it by the screen and not the base. A slight twist between the base and the unit may have damages the opics?

While waiting for the exchange, I tried to fix the tilt myself. You are supposed to loosen the 4 bigger screws, and rotate the unit. This I found extremely difficult to control, as slightly moving it changed the whole picture. You could also rock it back and forth which would move the picture up and down. In the end, I managed to remove the tilt at the top of the screen, but the bottom and the sides were still slightly tilted. I used the screen shots (grid, and chess board pattern) available in the service menu under DDP. The tilt is much better than before but still not worth keeping. I would advise against anyone on doing this procedure. Was not very intuitive. You would think, Panasonic would make it easier to adjust these things!

Ghosting

---------------------------------------
"hi, no i dont use OTA signals...where are you from? vancouver? i am....do we have OTA signals here? regarding ghosting, i dont think it's from another signal coz the "ghost" is exactly the shape of the main image...like letters. please see the link to sample pics of ghosting i posted...they r good examples...so you don't see those on your panny over HDMI correct? a good way of checking is when you press the guide button on the expressvu controller....on the screen, i can cleary see ghosting on the letters (white on blue background) over HDMI on my toshiba, but over component there is none. Kindly check again thanks! really appreciate it buddy"
---------------------------------
Hi Zeicht,

I live in Winnipeg. I checked the ghosting photos. Your photos seem to show ghosting and color fringing. Using my hi def 6100 receiver, pressing the guide button on the remote, I get slight color fringing (on letters at the sides of the screen) but no ghosting. The color fringe seems to be one pixel wide. You have to move up to about 2 1/2 feet from my screen to see the color fringing. From 8 feet away, where I sit, I can't see it at all. Your photos look a lot worse. On my Panny, the fringing occurs only on letters at the side of my screen. Letters at the center are free of fringing and ghosting. Using my 5200 receiver (standard def), I get fringing and ghosting in the same ballpark as your photos, maybe a bit less. I use HDMI for my hi def receiver and component for my SD receiver. I haven't tried my hi def receiver using component cables.

lightbender,

How did you determine your picture was out of skew? I have my PC hooked up to my Panny and am noticing the top is not as wide as the bottom by about 1/4". I have a DLP projector and they have an adjustment called Keystone, which is what I would need here. It's really only noticable when I put a window right along the edge.

I just purchased my new panny 50 DLP will be delivery on Tuesday, along with that got the Samsung TS-360 to use with Direct TV and OTA signals, still undicided on what dvd player to get any suggestions will be greatly appreciated,

also should i use AVIA (which i own) or DVE (which i do not have but can purchase) to calibrate the tv.

i think i got a good deal at a magnolia hi-fi got the tv, the sir-ts360 and a 4 year warranty bulb included in house, for not much more than 3k
anythin i should do when i first set up the set, thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Do I need a receiver that will do upconversion to connect everything to the set?

Originally posted by handydave
lightbender,

How did you determine your picture was out of skew? I have my PC hooked up to my Panny and am noticing the top is not as wide as the bottom by about 1/4". I have a DLP projector and they have an adjustment called Keystone, which is what I would need here. It's really only noticable when I put a window right along the edge.

When I'm watching TV with the DVD player. Since the movie doesn't fit the whole screen you can judge whether the picture is centered, skewed, tilted, etc. Mine was about 1/4" wider on the left side of the screen than the right side. Both the top and bottom were tilted but opposite to each other; i.e. they are not parallel. I then placed it into service mode and used the test screens available under DDP. The grid pattern obviously showed the skew not only at the top and botton but also on the sides. Looking through the service manual, there is no keystone adjustment. There is only that one page on mechanical adjustment I mentioned in my earlier post.

Okay, I know how to get into the service manual but I'm looking for a screen that shows the number of hours onthe bulb, # of times the set was turned on etc.....

Anybody know where this is?

Thanks!

Clear Image, thanks again for your response....i have a question with regards to the bell expressvu HD 6100...i get very dark picture via the dvi output of the 6100 on my toshiba HDMI, but over component the PQ is great. i read on a previous thread that the 6100 has serious flaws on the DVI output, many experienced the same dark picture on the 6100 via dvi out. do you experience the same on your bell 6100 DVI to your panny HDMI ? one member had replaced his 6100 thrice already. thanks!

Originally posted by Jim Wy
Hi All:

I was just wondering if anyone has a definitive answer on whether an SD signal from digital satellite (Bell ExVu 2700 w/ s-video capability, along w/ the mandatory RCA jack for video) is watchable, barely watchable, or really good for SD?

In case you're wondering I've searched this thread under satellite (12 posts), bell (2) expressvu (2) and dishnet (0) posts and haven't gotten an answer as to whether I should pay $3500-$4000 for a TV or keep my 32" CRT JVC

Also, does anyone know what the output is (480p - 480i I assume) for a DVB system such as Bell Canada (where I am) or the equivalent Dishnet (States) which I assume is the same output?

Thanks In Advance

Jim W

PS I am seriously looking at the Panny 50" and I am SURE that someone is in the same boat as I am. :-)

I have panny 50" DLP and DN 811 HD receiver with component cables. The SD channels (non-stratched mode) looks as good as my previous Hitachi CRT TV. I believe if your signal source is strong (one receiver per TV) then you should not have any issues. I don't miss my pervious TV at all. :)

Originally posted by zeicht
Clear Image, thanks again for your response....i have a question with regards to the bell expressvu HD 6100...i get very dark picture via the dvi output of the 6100 on my toshiba HDMI, but over component the PQ is great. i read on a previous thread that the 6100 has serious flaws on the DVI output, many experienced the same dark picture on the 6100 via dvi out. do you experience the same on your bell 6100 DVI to your panny HDMI ? one member had replaced his 6100 thrice already. thanks!

Hi Zeicht,

My picture on the HD 6100, using a DVI/HDMI cable, is not dark. For networks transmitting 720p, the picture is spectacular. The brightness of the picture is what you would expect and hope for. The 6100 is set for 720p. But for networks transmitting 1080i, I set the 6100 for 1080i in order to let the Panny do the downscaling. The resulting picture is just a touch less than spectacular. If I set the 6100 for 720p when the network transmits 1080i, to let the 6100 do the downscaling, the picture is noticeably less sharp but still very good. But the picture still is not dark. I just do not get a dark picture under any circumstances with the 6100. I understand from other posts that there was a model 6000, and this model was buggy. Are you sure the dark picture was supposed to be on the 6100 rather than the 6000?

Hello, I am just about ready to jump off the fence and buy the panny dlp. My main use for this set would be 80% xbox/xbox2 and 20% hd football games. Can anyone post your xbox experiences with the panny dlp. I would love to see some screenshots of xbox also. PLEASE!!!! thanks and later

Originally posted by Clear Image
Hi Zeicht,

My picture on the HD 6100, using a DVI/HDMI cable, is not dark. For networks transmitting 720p, the picture is spectacular. The brightness of the picture is what you would expect and hope for. The 6100 is set for 720p. But for networks transmitting 1080i, I set the 6100 for 1080i in order to let the Panny do the downscaling. The resulting picture is just a touch less than spectacular. If I set the 6100 for 720p when the network transmits 1080i, to let the 6100 do the downscaling, the picture is noticeably less sharp but still very good. But the picture still is not dark. I just do not get a dark picture under any circumstances with the 6100. I understand from other posts that there was a model 6000, and this model was buggy. Are you sure the dark picture was supposed to be on the 6100 rather than the 6000?

i see...it seems like you got a good unit...thats good! yup it's the 6100 thats exhibiting a dark picture...and is very buggy...mine is one...i tried an LG upconverting dvd player and it did not show a dark picture over HDMI, whereas the 6100 does...guess i have to get my 6100 replaced...can you do me a favor and look for your 6100's date of manufacture or serial no. /production number if any? or any number that can identify when it was made or the firmware date....oh ya can you post the firmware number shown under the system installation menu? i just wana see if we have the same one...thanks!

I connected athe Samsung SIR-TS360 via DVI cable with DVI to HDMI adapter but I'm not getting anything, is there some special setting to make this work or

Do i need to get a HDMI cable with a HDMI to DVI adapter for it to work,

I got the DVI cable and DVI to HDMI from pacific cable btw.
thanks

Well, it’s true what they say about the forum not representing the people who are away happily enjoying their sets instead of posting threads. I’ve had my PT-60DL54 for almost two months now, and except for the fan noise (more on that later), I’ve been extremely pleased with the set. I've been watching the TV instead of giving you all feedback on how its going...so here goes:

Standard Definition cable (analog) is at least as good as my neighbour’s Toshiba HDX CRT RPTV, and better than my friend’s 52” RCA CRT RPTV. This has been one of the nicest surprises, since I was expecting a mess of pixels and noise as per some of the posts found regarding DLPs and SD in general. It helps that I can leave the set in 4:3 mode with no fear of burn-in, and still see a 49” picture. (I prefer OAR on all media).

Xbox. Wow. Seriously, the picture (with the MS Hi Def pak) is stunning. I won’t be buying any more 4:3 games (which I play in OAR with bars) though, because 16:9 is where it’s at. I had an Xbox party a couple of weeks ago wit some fairly hard core gamers (and multiple projectors, beers and pizzas), and everyone raved about the Xbox graphics (to the point of playing certain games just to see how they look).

DVD. I still have an ancient 480i DVD player, and I was blown away by the picture. This may have been a case of exceeding low expectations, but I’ve re-watched lots of DVDs over the past couple of months, and it’s amazing how much detail there is. The Panny S97 is on my Christmas list though…

Unique settings by input. Another surprise! It’s not really by input, but the inputs will remember the different settings (Vivid, Cinema, etc), and all you have to do is set each input source to a customized version of each setting, and each one will be remembered. For example, I use an edited version of Cinema for TV and DVD, and edited version of “Vivid” for my Xbox and an edited “Photo” for my PC. Works great!

Calibration. Seriously, if you own this set and have not done Topp’s tweaks from earlier in this thread, you are doing yourself a disservice. Out of the box the TV was ok. After VE calibration is was good. After applying the tweaks and recalibrating, it is great!

Fan noise. It’s my only negative about the set, but there’s hope! I just got this email from Panasonic Canada

Can you please give me an update on the status of your set? Has the
color wheel been replaced yet? The factory has finally gotten back to us on
the fan noise issue and have sent me a mod kit of sorts. Basically the kit
consists of high density anti vibration rubber which is to be installed to
prevent the fan from resonating noise through the chassis of the set. It's
definitely worth a try to see how much improvement it will make. Anyhow please
let me know if you would like to try this option.

Thanks,
…
I’m hoping that between fixing the high-pitched whine of the color wheel and installing the dampers mentioned above that I’ll be an even happier camper very soon!

Quill

I'd just like to personally thank jagman2010 & quill (above post) for answering almost every question I had. :-)

Thanks again
Jim

Dark Picture

--------------------------------------
i see...it seems like you got a good unit...thats good! yup it's the 6100 thats exhibiting a dark picture...and is very buggy...mine is one...i tried an LG upconverting dvd player and it did not show a dark picture over HDMI, whereas the 6100 does...guess i have to get my 6100 replaced...can you do me a favor and look for your 6100's date of manufacture or serial no. /production number if any? or any number that can identify when it was made or the firmware date....oh ya can you post the firmware number shown under the system installation menu? i just wana see if we have the same one...thanks!
---------------------------------------
Hi Zeicht,

My software version is E472LCFD-N. My receiver CA ID number is R0066608120-21. Both of these numbers were on my installation menu. We should compare settings. I use the Cinema setting with color balance normal, brightness 24, picture 60-63 depending on the program, and color and tint depending on the program. I just compared the picture from my Bell 6100, Bell 5200, and Shaw cable. All on the Panny. On CNN, the 6100 and Shaw cable had very similar brightness. The 5200 was slightly brighter than the previous two. Hopes this helps.

Panny Sharpness Setting

Previous posts on calibrating the Panny recommended setting the sharpness control to zero. Videophiles usually recommend setting sharpness to zero. The reason, I think, is that boosting sharpness with this control is an "artificial" boost to sharpness which will have bad side effects. I have experimented with changing the sharpness setting from one extreme to the other, from 0 to 63. I mainly used high definition programs from the Bell Express Vu hi def 6100 receiver, with DVI/HDMI cable. I always prefer sharpness set at the maximum, 63. It just looks sharper, a lot sharper, and I see no side effects--except, maybe, very slight microjitter on very closely placed narrow stripes on clothes, something which very rarely appears. On balance, the added sharpness is much more important than the very rare, and minor, side effect. What am I missing? Anyone else experiment with sharpness settings?

Originally posted by Quill

Calibration. Seriously, if you own this set and have not done Topp’s tweaks from earlier in this thread, you are doing yourself a disservice. Out of the box the TV was ok. After VE calibration is was good. After applying the tweaks and recalibrating, it is great!

Fan noise. It’s my only negative about the set, but there’s hope! I just got this email from Panasonic Canada

I’m hoping that between fixing the high-pitched whine of the color wheel and installing the dampers mentioned above that I’ll be an even happier camper very soon!

Quill

Hi Quill,

can you post again the settings suggested by topp and also the tweaks/ calibration done? this thread has grown way too big and i cant seem to find them...thanks!

about the fan noise, certainly good news from panasonic canada...keep us posted..hope that remedy helps! thanks!

Originally posted by Clear Image
Dark Picture

--------------------------------------
i see...it seems like you got a good unit...thats good! yup it's the 6100 thats exhibiting a dark picture...and is very buggy...mine is one...i tried an LG upconverting dvd player and it did not show a dark picture over HDMI, whereas the 6100 does...guess i have to get my 6100 replaced...can you do me a favor and look for your 6100's date of manufacture or serial no. /production number if any? or any number that can identify when it was made or the firmware date....oh ya can you post the firmware number shown under the system installation menu? i just wana see if we have the same one...thanks!
---------------------------------------
Hi Zeicht,

My software version is E472LCFD-N. My receiver CA ID number is R0066608120-21. Both of these numbers were on my installation menu. We should compare settings. I use the Cinema setting with color balance normal, brightness 24, picture 60-63 depending on the program, and color and tint depending on the program. I just compared the picture from my Bell 6100, Bell 5200, and Shaw cable. All on the Panny. On CNN, the 6100 and Shaw cable had very similar brightness. The 5200 was slightly brighter than the previous two. Hopes this helps.


hi clear image, i'l check my 6100, see if we have the same numbers...thanks! i havent gotten my panny yet...but will let you know when i get it...

Originally posted by Clear Image
Panny Sharpness Setting

I always prefer sharpness set at the maximum, 63. It just looks sharper, a lot sharper, and I see no side effects--except, maybe, very slight microjitter on very closely placed narrow stripes on clothes, something which very rarely appears. On balance, the added sharpness is much more important than the very rare, and minor, side effect. What am I missing?

What you are missing is what is often termed "ringing". This is a double image or ghosting effect visible on the edges between contrasting colors. It is often easily seen with dark text on a light background, and appears to be a ghost image of the text, sometimes repeated more than once. A "sharpness" test pattern on your favorite calibration DVD will allow you to see this phenomenon occur and get worse as you increase the sharpness control. Besides this distracting effect on the image, by increasing the sharpness control you are adding something to the video image that was not there to begin with.

The following link talks about "edge enhancement" in DVDs, which is similar to what happens with an elevated sharpness setting. There are some photos towards the end that clearly show what ringing looks like.

http://www.videophile.info/Guide_EE/Page_01.htm

Now having said all that...you are certainly free to set your TV to whatever looks good to you. I personally set my Panny's sharpness setting to 0. Anyway...enjoy the view.

Ben

Dark pictures

Hi Zeicht,

Are you watching TV in bright room light. I watch in a dimly lit room, with the only lighting being a special color controlled light meant to be attached to the back of the TV.

Originally posted by zeicht
Hi Quill,

can you post again the settings suggested by topp and also the tweaks/ calibration done? this thread has grown way too big and i cant seem to find them...thanks!

about the fan noise, certainly good news from panasonic canada...keep us posted..hope that remedy helps! thanks!

Topps tweaks are on pages 22 and 38 of this thread

Originally posted by dingJam
What you are missing is what is often termed "ringing". This is a double image or ghosting effect visible on the edges between contrasting colors. It is often easily seen with dark text on a light background, and appears to be a ghost image of the text, sometimes repeated more than once. A "sharpness" test pattern on your favorite calibration DVD will allow you to see this phenomenon occur and get worse as you increase the sharpness control. Besides this distracting effect on the image, by increasing the sharpness control you are adding something to the video image that was not there to begin with.

Ben

Hi Ben,

Thanks for the reply and the link, which I found interesting.

Professional photographers normally "post-process" their pictures with Photoshop CS after the pictures are shot. One typical step is to add edge enhancement to the images just short of when halos or other side effects become visible. This adds apparent sharpness, not real sharpness. But the picture looks a lot better and *closer to what the photographer saw* when shooting the picture. This enhancement is routine for professional photographers interested in accurate pictures or in artistic, good-looking pictures. In the link you provided, the side effects illustrated of edge enhancement needed close ups to be seen. I view my Panny from a distance of 8-9 feet, with sharpness set to maximum. If side effects require one to be 1-2 feet from the screen to see them, why are they important? The fact that one is changing the image, adding something (apparent sharpness) to the image not originally there, is viewed by professional photographers as a blessing, not a problem.

I've looked for sharpening halos from 8 feet away and have not seen them. I'll look again. Maybe I missed them. Thanks.

Just received my Panny PT-50DL54. Got it on-line for $2200 + shipping, no tax.

Hooked it up to my Samsung OTA receiver and was watching afternoon soaps in HD. As I said to my friend "they're cheating in HD"!

I have done nothing to tune up the picture and it looks at least as good as my Samsung HLN507W which has the "old" HD2 chip and is capable of a really great picture.

I've read many good things about this TV here on AVSForum except for peoples concerns about fan noise. So fan noise was the first thing I was looking for when I powered up the TV. Sitting a foot away I could hear the fan but did not thing it was excessively noisy. Once I got the TV program running and moved back about 8 feet I could not hear the fan at all.

In short, so far great picture and the fan is not a problem.

I was a total Samsung guy but except for the "Capt Kirk" they have been fumbling since the HLN507W.

Phil Thackray

Originally posted by PThackray
Just received my Panny PT-50DL54. Got it on-line for $2200 + shipping, no tax.



Sorry, I'm not quite clear on the rules here about pricing and naming businesses so I'll post a vague question: did you get it from a place that is named after a president who was known for being honest?

-dw

DaverJ

I don't think you can name both a price and the retailer. I found a dealer by going to Bizrate.com and searching Panasonic PT 50DL54.

Oddly enough, several on-line retailers state in the product description for this TV that it has an ATSC receiver and this TV does not have an ATSC receiver.

Check your messages.

Phil Thackray

Yesterday I got my PT 50DL54 and ran it sitting on wall-to-wall carpeting. Fan noise was noticeable but not bothersome.

Today I put the PT 50DL54 up on a stand and the fan noise is more noticeable and it is somewhat bothersome.

For comparison, I also have a Sammy HLN507W at a separate location and I really don't notice the fan at all.

I guess I'll get in line for any fan noise fix that is (hopefully) forthcoming.

Phil Thackray

Overscan and Service Menu Question

I looked back in the strand and found the shortcut Topp posted. By doing so, I get a

"CHK00027 00000000 09"
" 000F9 0046 0034"

If I push the Recall button, I can scroll through several solid colored screens.

So my questions are:

1) Is this the service menu/screen?
2) How do I get to the screen where I can correct my overscan?
3) Where is the WB located where I can change it from 00 to 01.

I am quite happy with this tv. I've had it for about 2 weeks now. I have noticed the fan to occasionally make a high pitched noise. Also, the lip sync issue is very noticeable in "Return of the Jedi." I'm having a service tech come out and check all these things out. I'll keep you informed on what happens, if you care to know. :)

Thanks in advance for your help. If I can't correct the overscan myself, I'll ask the service tech to do it. :)

I contacted Panasonic USA about the possible fan fix mentioned in a post above. I have a case number because of my original complaint made about one month ago. When I get more info. I'll post.

Quill & roblim, thanks for the notes on a potential fix for the fan noise issue. Please, please, please do keep us updated on your status here! Many of us would love to see a Panasonic fix here and the idea of rubber "bushings" for the fan mount sounds like the best approach possible.

So again let us know how your service requests are handled!

Thanks,

-dave

Originally posted by kjoe
Quill & roblim, thanks for the notes on a potential fix for the fan noise issue. P

This Panny was originally on the top of my list of purchases, but the fan noise issue has moved it down. If they could resolve this issue I would put it back at the top because I think it has the best picture of all the sets I've looked at. I just couldn't live with the noise that people are describing....

I would love to hear Panny has corrected this problem.

-dw

Fan Noise

I contacted a Panasonic Canada rep to find out about the kit to reduce fan noise. He confirmed that a kit is available and he will forward one to my local repair shop. I'll let you know what happens.

Originally posted by Clear Image
Fan Noise

I contacted a Panasonic Canada rep to find out about the kit to reduce fan noise. He confirmed that a kit is available and he will forward one to my local repair shop. I'll let you know what happens.

Clear Image, I would be very interested to see what the kit is as well!

Just confirmed a service appointment for next Monday afternoon to replace the color wheel and install the fan noise kit...here's hoping!

Hi Quill

Originally posted by Quill
Just confirmed a service appointment for next Monday afternoon to replace the color wheel and install the fan noise kit...here's hoping!

What were the symptoms that made you want to replace the color wheel? I would like to evaluate those symptoms on my Panny before they install the kit.

I've been following this thread for a couple months now. I have seen the set in a couple of stores, and I do hear the fan noise, which is louder than some other sets.

I know the PQ of the Panny is the best bang for the buck, but I don't know if it outweighs the fan noise. What are some of the other sets that you folks would consider to be close to the Panny? Also, anyone hear anything about Panny fixing the problem during the manufacturing of the sets, or when the problem might be addressed, if at all?

Sawyer I thought I remember reading in this thread that there was a recent fix. Something about internal stabilizers.

Originally posted by sawyer1370
What are some of the other sets that you folks would consider to be close to the Panny?

The Panny was in the #1 position of my list 'till all the fan noise postings. I've looked at and followed the Sony XS series of LCD projectors and they look pretty close in PQ to the panny, plus with HD tuner, a couple HD connectors and less complaints about fan noise. There have been a few fan noise issues, but not nearly as many. Do a search on the Sony 55xs955 and see what you think- it's currently on the top of my short list. This model also has advanced menu options that us AV tweakers love to poke around in.
;)

Just curious, what nationwide stores carry the panny dlp? I can't seem to find one in my area.

Originally posted by scrubsr1
Just curious, what nationwide stores carry the panny dlp? I can't seem to find one in my area.

The only national store that I'm aware of that carries the Panny DLP is CompUSA.

Originally posted by scrubsr1
Just curious, what nationwide stores carry the panny dlp? I can't seem to find one in my area.

Tweeter is where I saw the one that sold me on the Panny PQ, but I don't know if they are "nationwide" or not....

I just looked at the RCA HD50LPW162 DLP set, and the PQ is great. Anyone else do a comparison of the Panny to the RCA? The price on the RCA is a few hundred below that of the Panny.

Thoughts/Comments?

Originally posted by Clear Image
Hi Quill



What were the symptoms that made you want to replace the color wheel? I would like to evaluate those symptoms on my Panny before they install the kit.

The symptom is a high pitched whine that goes away as soon as the TV is turned off (and you're left with just the fan noise).

If it sounds the same on as it does during the "cool down" when you turn it off, then the color wheel is normal.

Quill

Quill,

Can you get us a Part # for the Fan Noise Kit when the repair Tech. comes out with it?

I e-mailed Panasonic US about the Kit several days ago, but they have not responded.

Thank you!

I received a very amusing letter from Panasonic today. They wanted $600 for a one-year extended warranty plan. Needless to say, the check is in the mail... NOT! Heh heh!

Wow. Just purchased this thing of beauty and got it hooked up and running with an RCA 210. Of course, I was very impressed with the HD picture but even the SD looked darn good. Gotta go through and do all the little tweaks but first impression is very very good. Fan noise was noticeable but not bothersome at all. After a while, I didn't even remember it was running until I shut the TV off.
I do have one question that I hope somebody can help with: I bought a DVI to HDMI cable but now I see they sell female HDMI adapters for less $. Wondering if it makes a difference which way I go in terms of PQ. If I can get the same picture from a cheaper adapter, then I'll buy that and take the cable back. Thoughts? Thanks....

MaestroJ,

I have the HDMI to DVI adapter (Monster brand) that plugs into the back of the set (PT-50DL54). The problem is there is no lock down (screw down) provision for the HDMI connector system. When you attach the DVI cable (which is larger than HDMI) the weight of the cable pulls the adapter out of the socket. I got it to work by cable tying the DVI cable to the TV power cord thereby relieving the strain.

Performance wise there is no problem.

I don't think this TV uses the audio information in the HDMI cable anyway.

Phil Thackray

I'm very interested in this unit. When I go to stores, I notice that when all the TV's go to black, the PT-50DL54 tends to have a more deep blue-black color. Can this be tweaked out?

Quill,

Any update on the Fan Noise Kit?

How long are you guys going to beat this 'fan noise' issue to death?


What happened to the 52 version of this set (the black version with the speakers underneath the screen)? I see only the 54 version with the silver aircraft wings is being talked about.

Videobruce,

I don't think this issue has been beaten to death yet. Quill was scheduled to have a new Fan Noise Reduction Kit installed yesterday. The kit was sent from the Factory to Panasonic Canada Support a couple of weeks ago, and they were going ship it to a local repair shop near to Quill.

I was just following up to see if the Kit was installed and to see if it helped.

caeguy,

I don't see this problem on my set. Out of the box, these TV's have their picture set to VIVID which is an unnatural looking setting.

I have two HD sources, local cable and OTA HD tuner. I'm very satisfied with the HD PQ on this set. As I posted somewhere, SD PQ is almost entirely a source issue. I also have a Sammy HLN507W which used the HD2 chip. These Sammy's have a great picture and I think that the PT-50DL54 is better. I am not bothered by the fan noise during normal broadcasts. Several other people who watch the TV (and have never been told about "fan noise") have never mentioned the fan noise.

With a picture quality that rivals the Sammy "Kirk", and available on-line for $2200 this is a terrific value even with a little fan noise. If there is a fix for the "slightly elevated fan noise" (like Quill was supposed to have done yesterday) this TV would be the unmatchable performance/$ winner.

I am going over to my father in-laws house to measure his living room and see what is available from his cable company. If a 50" HD projector looks like a fit, we'll give him a PT-50DL54 for Christmas.


Phil Thackray

So I've had the Panny 50DL54 for a few days now, and I'm totally blown away. It holds blacks far better than my plasma, and the overall picture quality is really perfect, considering the price and competition. I do notice the occasional rainbowing, but I did on all the sets I looked at. One important note: make sure you spend a lot of time calibrating--it's very touchy with the slightest adjustments. Here's what I came up with from DVE:

color: 24
Tint: 29
Brightness: 29
Contrast: 33

I have the color set on normal (anyone find warm or cool a better choice?).

I realize everyone has personal views on which DLP is the best, but after spending a day in the store messing around with the Mits, Samsung and Panny side by side, I saw the Panny the clear cut winner. Everyone was trying to get me to by the Samsung, and at first, I did think the set looked better, but it's deceiving: you get a very sharp, bright picture, which would look good to an untrained eye, but I believe the warmer, deeper picture of the Panny absolutely wins over. The more you spend time with it, the better it becomes. The depth is what ultimately puts it over the top.

As for video games: awesome. My Xbox looks especially good.

bradyk? ANy problems with fast moving games or any video lag?

Anybody heard as to when the Panny 50" DLP model with the ATSC tuner is supposed to be available?

Originally posted by tjdean
Anybody heard as to when the Panny 50" DLP model with the ATSC tuner is supposed to be available?

I emailed Panasonic a week ago. No response yet. Do they have a number to call?

I find it funny that they announced the DLP with ATSC tuner back in January 2004. Does it usually take a year to go from press release to retail?

Has anyone compared this Panny to the Samsung HLP-5674?

Originally posted by bradyk
So I've had the Panny 50DL54 for a few days now, and I'm totally blown away. It holds blacks far better than my plasma, and the overall picture quality is really perfect, considering the price and competition. I do notice the occasional rainbowing, but I did on all the sets I looked at. One important note: make sure you spend a lot of time calibrating--it's very touchy with the slightest adjustments. Here's what I came up with from DVE:

color: 24
Tint: 29
Brightness: 29
Contrast: 33

I have the color set on normal (anyone find warm or cool a better choice?).



Check out Topp Robertson's professional calibration on page 22 of this thread

Games seem great on this tv. I don't have a way to play nonprogressive ps2 games properly, so they look awful, but Xbox is really good. My only complaint is occasional ghosting on the more saturated images against pure blacks. I know I'll probably start seeing little things here and there I don't like, but I think for the size, it's a fine compromise with CRTs.

I do enjoy the set, but I'm getting a little curious if I'd like the Samsung equally, if not more so. Some people seem to be saying it holds blacks better. I saw screen dooring that bothered me, so....
anyone with general thoughts between the Panny and Samsung? (not a Mits fan)

Just a little heads-up. I'm not overly sure about the postings concerning MSRP and/or Dealers so I'll just say that I bought my 50dl54 from the Brick Canada and they now (until tomorrow) have a substantial deal on this TV, They also gave me a really good deal on a 42" plasma stand that fits perfectly under my TV (coming Thursday)

Thanks Jim

I'm about ready to get my first big screen. Already have a 36" Tosh hdtv (4:3) and get all content from Time Warner (digital & HD). Have considered pretty much all technologies (CRT RP; LCD, LCOS, DLP, Plasma), done too much reading on the web (Information overload!!) and seen most of the sets in the chain stores (CC, BB & Sears) as well as a few local mid-high end shops.

Set will be used in a bonus room over my garage with several windows, but most of the light can be controlled. Will get a 50" + screen and have pretty much decided on a DLP. Will be used for watching HDTV including sports, some DVD's and some SD TV. No gaming or PC now - maybe later when kids get older.

I have narrowed my choice down to a Tosh 52HM84, 52HMX84 or the Panny 50DL54. I know about the ghosting issues and HDMI issues on the Tosh and the fan noise on the Panny. PQ on both seems very good to me - obiously they can be tweaked from what is seen in the stores.

So, if it were your $$, between those 2 sets only, which do you get & why?

Originally posted by fishinwuf
I'm about ready to get my first big screen. Already have a 36" Tosh hdtv (4:3) and get all content from Time Warner (digital & HD). Have considered pretty much all technologies (CRT RP; LCD, LCOS, DLP, Plasma), done too much reading on the web (Information overload!!) and seen most of the sets in the chain stores (CC, BB & Sears) as well as a few local mid-high end shops.

Set will be used in a bonus room over my garage with several windows, but most of the light can be controlled. Will get a 50" + screen and have pretty much decided on a DLP. Will be used for watching HDTV including sports, some DVD's and some SD TV. No gaming or PC now - maybe later when kids get older.

I have narrowed my choice down to a Tosh 52HM84, 52HMX84 or the Panny 50DL54. I know about the ghosting issues and HDMI issues on the Tosh and the fan noise on the Panny. PQ on both seems very good to me - obiously they can be tweaked from what is seen in the stores.

So, if it were your $$, between those 2 sets only, which do you get & why?

I just exchanged my Toshiba 52HM84 for the Panasonic, I would have to strongly recomend the Panny. The HDMI problem on the Toshiba was the deal breaker for me, but there some other factors that tip the balance in the Panasonic's favor

-The dithering or "clay face" problem seem much more reduced on the Panasonic - This could be due to maybe the 8 segment color wheel on the Panasonic (vs. 6 on the Toshiba) or the 10 bit processing (vs. 8 bit)
-There is one more component input on the Panasonic, plus a VGA input (though that is limited to 1024 x 768)
-I don't think the Panasonic's fan is any louder then the Toshiba's, but then again, I might have a new unit with the fan noise fix

Given that both units are around the same price on the internet, I would go with the Panasonic. You can't go wrong either way though.

Is there a fan noise kit? It's mentioned above but...

Originally posted by Josey_Wales
I just exchanged my Toshiba 52HM84 for the Panasonic, I would have to strongly recomend the Panny. The HDMI problem on the Toshiba was the deal breaker for me, but there some other factors that tip the balance in the Panasonic's favor

-The dithering or "clay face" problem seem much more reduced on the Panasonic - This could be due to maybe the 8 segment color wheel on the Panasonic (vs. 6 on the Toshiba) or the 10 bit processing (vs. 8 bit)
-There is one more component input on the Panasonic, plus a VGA input (though that is limited to 1024 x 768)
-I don't think the Panasonic's fan is any louder then the Toshiba's, but then again, I might have a new unit with the fan noise fix

Given that both units are around the same price on the internet, I would go with the Panasonic. You can't go wrong either way though.

I've heard alot about the "clay face" problem. What exactly is that? I have the Panny, and I notice (especially on SD content) that sometimes I see a line running across a human face. In scenes where there are bright lights, I will sometimes see the silohette of the brightness (like the outer area of the light is outlined). Is this the "clay face" problem?

Originally posted by lightbender
I've heard alot about the "clay face" problem. What exactly is that? I have the Panny, and I notice (especially on SD content) that sometimes I see a line running across a human face. In scenes where there are bright lights, I will sometimes see the silohette of the brightness (like the outer area of the light is outlined). Is this the "clay face" problem?

Clayface is an effect where on some motion, esp. fast moving pans, parts of the image break down into a dithered pattern. I think the Toshiba DLP thead has some pictures of the effect.

Well, the service guy came can checked my tv. Said the fan noise is within normal limits and that he hasn't heard of anything about a dampers for the fan.

My fan really isn't all that bothersome.

As for the lip sync issue, he indicated that it was a problem with source material. You see it in analog, but don't really see it much on the same show when viewed in HD (or the HD channel for that station).

Overscan, he didn't even bother to address is. Just said that it occurs with different signals, etc. I'd correct this myself, but not sure what to do once I get into the service menu.

But my more pressing question is what are people using as a DVD player for this excellent tv? Should I go for a Zenith 319 and upconvert via the DVI or components? Or should I let the Panny handle the upconversion and go with a good progressive scan DVD player? I'd like to spend less than $200 if possible. Anything should be better than using my PS2 (embarrassing enough).

Thanks.

AustPwrs,

I have a standard progressive scan DVD player feeding my PT-50DL54 and the picture looks very good. I have an upconverting DVD player running a Samsung HLN507W at another location which also looks very good.

In theory an up-converting DVD using the DVI/HDMI connection eliminates a D-A conversion and an A-D conversion.

My understanding is that the signal on a DVD is interlaced and that progressive scan players must de-interlace the signal to get the progressive signal. This involve processing that is done differently in different players. The TV will then up-convert this signal. The net result is that the picture may be better or worse depending on the type of progressive player you are using.

But there seem to be plenty of issues with the latest crop of up-converters.

Oh well

Phil Thackray

I am getting the Panny S97 for Christmas, purchased at Vanns, it was over $200. Check out the thread:
Panasonic DVD-S97S FAQ / Brain dump
good luck
Caboman

Bought my 50" on Thursday and now do I ever have questions:D

Audio/Video 1-2 in and Audio/Video out (the 1st 3 in-out puts on the back of the tv).

My 1st input is s-vid from my sat receiver (Bell) and I have yet to put the l-r Aud jacks from my sat out to my TV in (now it's from my rcvr out to my surround). My question is... does the composite A/V out take whatever the input is showing on the TV and output that no matter what so that I can take either the sat feed (aud) or the DVD feed (aud) and from there go to my surround? I suppose the question I'm asking is how do I have multiple inputs which will be..
--s-vid and aud from sat.
--component vid and aud from dvd.
-- and analogue input and output to-from VCR
AND wife-proof the whole thing?

ANY input (pardon the pun) is appreciated

Thanks
Jim W

:)

Ok, I read the first 7 pages and then gave up trying to find an answer so I am just going to ask it...

Are there any sync issues? Either with sound or with gaming? I saw that someone traded in their Samsung for a Panny, so maybe they could comment on this?

I really want to hook up a HTPC so DLP is my only choice. LCDs have weird resolutions that make it hard for a PC to work and using any resolution besides the native makes text blurry. It is good to see that dithering issues have all been solved in DLP since the faster spinning 7 segment color wheels came out, however, I have read that the Samsungs still have a control/video delay when it comes to gaming, and again, this is a deal breaker. How does the Panny perform?

I had the Fan Noise mod done to my TV by the service tech...and it didn't do any good :( . Here's my note to Panasonic:

_______________________

I had the replacement fan, color wheel and fan-dampening-foam installed last night…and it made no difference in the level of fan noise. Nuts.

I placed a Radio Shack meter on the corner of my TV stand prior to the replacement, and it measured between 51-52dB (audio off, quiet room, TV not quite warmed up). After the installation, with the meter and TV back in the same spot, the meter read 52-53 dB (the TV always gets louder as it warms up).

I’m no engineer, but to me it sounds as though the fan motor is the culprit, and that perhaps it is being overdriven. I wonder what would happen if it were slowed down by a few RPM? Just a thought.

I really appreciate everything you’ve done so far, but I have to be honest and admit that I’m pretty disappointed right now, as I was looking forward to watching a much quieter television.

Please let me know if there is anything else that can be done…(I’ll try anything!)

Signed...

i recently also ordered the S97 from Vanns, very nice company, pretty good prices too, i recieved it about 4 days after purchase, i bought my 50dl54 last week, but im waiting because my HT is being built right now, i should have them hooked up in a few weeks.

Hey Max... I've had my set four a week now, and half that time has been spent with games. I haven't noticed a single problem with syncing, and only occasionally do I see ghosting--so minor that it really is inconsequential. PS2 has some problems since it's mostly 4:3 nonprogressive, but the Panny does a great job of handling those too.

Thanks for the input guys. I did look at the Panny S97. Let me know what you guys think of it.

I read on the DVD board that the upcoming Toshiba DVD/VCR HDMI unit is pretty good. Seems like the poster is a reviewer for hometheaterhifi.com and states that the review on this unit will be out in the next month or so. He also mentioned not to buy the S97, but to get the Sony (forgot the model number) that is in the same class. I'm not sure if I can wait that long for a decent DVD player.

I know different TV's handle DVD's and signals differently. My main question is if I should buy a DVD that upconverts, or if I should leave it up to the Panny to do it. I read a review that the Samsung 841 was pretty bad in it's upconverting and the magazine writer (I think it was Stereophile) preferred the picture from component cables (480p) vs DVI (720p or 1080i). So, why bother with the upconversion and the extra cost of the DVI/HDMI cable if the picture won't be that much better? :)

The best news I heard is from PTackray that his P-scan DVD looks great on the Panny.

PTackray, have you tried your upconverting DVD player on the Panny? If so, how does it compare to your p-scan DVD player?

MaxC, I do have sync issues with my TV. Had the service guy come out. He said it is due to source material, esp. analogue. It is true. When watching analogue stations (for example NBC) it can be quiet bad. But when I go to HD (Comcast) for the same stations that I was just watching, there is none to minuscule lip sync issues. However, I do notice it with Empire Strikes Back. Granted, it is likely due to me using my PS2 for a DVD player (see above.) :)

Since I've gotten the TV, I've been playing SOCOM II online. At first I thought I was experiencing lag. But it turns out I just suck. :) I haven't tried Madden on it yet, and from what I understand, it's the kicking part of the game that you can really tell if there are sync issues. Overall, I don't think there are any with game playing, esp. on the PS2 (since that's all I'm experienced with). However, if you are having those issues and would like to confirm it, let me know and I'll throw in my NCAA Football and confirm or refute your findings. I just might have to do that anyways, since USC is in the Orange Bowl and gonna take it all this year! (Not a huge SC fan, but will support the Pac 10 'til the end! It's time the west got some respect!)

Yeah, baby, yeah!

Could someone who owns a 50dl54 measure the width of the base and post your results. I'm looking to find a stand that matches the base's width as closely as possble so I can place my front L&R speakers under the speakers that are attached to the set. Thanks.

Originally posted by BJMoose
Could someone who owns a 50dl54 measure the width of the base and post your results. I'm looking to find a stand that matches the base's width as closely as possble so I can place my front L&R speakers under the speakers that are attached to the set. Thanks. The width of the base is 40.5". If you will be watching it from a standard sofa/armchairs, I recommend that the stand be no more than 18" high, with 16" being ideal. With a 16" stand, your speakers can be up to 23" high, since the bottom of the TV screen is 7" above the base. Hope this helps.

Originally posted by Zimberto
The width is 40.5".

Zimberto, thanks for the quick response. I appreciate at it.

Originally posted by BJMoose
Zimberto, thanks for the quick response. I appreciate at it. No problem! :) BTW, just in case you missed my addition above, if you will be watching it from a standard sofa/armchairs, I recommend that the stand be no more than 18" high, with 16" being ideal. With a 16" stand, your speakers can be up to 23" high, since the bottom of the TV screen is 7" above the base. Hope this helps.

So a Bello AVS-422t which sits 24" tall would be too tall?I want to put my center speaker below the DLP.My problem is that my center speaker is the Kappa and at 24"W x 7.5" H x 10.5"D and 33 lb. is too big to go on top of a dlp set.
A 18" tall stand puts speaker way too low to match the flanking Kappa 600s which stand at 38".
I can't be the only one facing this problem, can I?

Ultimately it's a subjective thing, but I intially had a 22" high stand and the TV looked way too high and upset the look of the room. With a 16" stand, the center of the screen is level with the eye when sitting on a normal couch. The TV fits the room better too. My advice it to experiment, but if you have one shot at buying a stand, try and make sure it's about 16" high.

Zimberto,

Thanks for the added detail. I am one for maximizing my viewing experience and have already calculated the height based on the details available on the Panny site (They just didn't advertize the width of the base). You are correct that the best height is a subjective thing. I am 6'8" tall and my living room furniture sits much higher than normal. A 22-23" high stand will be perfect for me in my normal slightly leaned back position. However this would probably be too high for someone of average height with average sized furniture.

Originally posted by BJMoose
Zimberto,

Thanks for the added detail. I am one for maximizing my viewing experience and have already calculated the height based on the details available on the Panny site (They just didn't advertize the width of the base). You are correct that the best height is a subjective thing. I am 6'8" tall and my living room furniture sits much higher than normal. A 22-23" high stand will be perfect for me in my normal slightly leaned back position. However this would probably be too high for someone of average height with average sized furniture. Well you might want to look at this stand (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Z-Line-Designs-TV-Stand--23541S-/sem/rpsm/oid/69535/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do) then. It's very good quality at a fair price. I had one to begin with but left it back because of the height issue.

Originally posted by Zimberto
Well you might want to look at this stand (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Z-Line-Designs-TV-Stand--23541S-/sem/rpsm/oid/69535/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do) then. It's very good quality at a fair price. I had one to begin with but left it back because of the height issue.

Yeah, I was looking at that at Circuit City when I was considering the Toshiba DLP. Really looks to be one of the best buys out there. Most others of the same quality are at least $100 more.

Zimberto,
Which stand are you using for your TV? I just got the Panny couple of weeks ago and I'm looking for a suitable stand. Right now it's sitting on my old stand which is about 19" high and I feel that it's a little bit too high.

Originally posted by NIK23
Zimberto,
Which stand are you using for your TV? I just got the Panny couple of weeks ago and I'm looking for a suitable stand. Right now it's sitting on my old stand which is about 19" high and I feel that it's a little bit too high. Have a LOOK HERE (http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/503/7468786pt50dl54.jpg). I looked around many stores at the stands on offer but couldn't find one I liked at a price I was prepared to pay. I'm currently using a real-wood coffee table that I got at Meijer for about $80. It'll do until such times (if ever) I get a stand. It's the right height and has an under-shelf that holds my components. It doesn't look too bad since most everything else in the room is that shade of wood (cherry).

BTW, nevermind the coffee table, doesn't Windows Media Player look glorious at 52" !! :D

AustPwrs

If you are posting in this forum then I suspect that you will not be happy with anything less than an up-converter via HDMI. :D

If you go that route and have another DVI/HDMI device then you will need a switching device as well. Buy a DVI switcher they are cheaper. HDMI to DVI cables are available for $25.00 (2 meter).

My two systems are in different houses and I may one day take my up-converting DVD over the Panny location and try it head to head with the progressive scan device. However don’t wait for me. One of the reasons I’m in no hurry is that I don’t expect to see any difference. I have seen HD from two different OTA receivers, a C-band satellite system, a DBS satellite system and local cable. Through DVI or component cable it all looks great. As I said above, the progressive scan player looks very good on the Panny. I suspect that you would need a special DVD designed to highlight whatever weakness the progressive DVD has to see the difference between it and an up-converting DVD.

All that being said, for reasons that relate to the first line of this post I would probably buy the up-converting Sony if I was looking for a player right now.

Phil Thackray

PThackray,

Thanks for your response. I might be inclined to get a HDMI/DVI upconverting DVD player if the price is right and I see a big difference. But since you've mentioned that there isn't much of a difference, same as a few of my friends, I'm not sure if an upconverting DVD player is what I'll get. Seems like most of them in the "affordable" range have some issues.

BTW, you are talking to a guy that's still using a PS2 for a DVD player. That has to change soon! :)

Austin Powers

BTW BJM, I am using the same stand that Zimberto returned. I admit, the TV does sit a little higher than I would like. But after a few weeks, I don't really notice the difference. I also watch it from a variety of angles, so it does work out for me. It is a great looking stand and probably the best deal out there. But if there are those out there that want a "cheap" stand around 16 inches, I suggest the Oppi from Ikea. It goes for roughly $100 and has room for equipment underneath. Seems like people on the stands thread really like this alternative.

Originally posted by Quill
I had the Fan Noise mod done to my TV by the service tech...and it didn't do any good :( . Here's my note to Panasonic:

_______________________

I had the replacement fan, color wheel and fan-dampening-foam installed last night…and it made no difference in the level of fan noise. Nuts.

I placed a Radio Shack meter on the corner of my TV stand prior to the replacement, and it measured between 51-52dB (audio off, quiet room, TV not quite warmed up). After the installation, with the meter and TV back in the same spot, the meter read 52-53 dB (the TV always gets louder as it warms up).

ISigned...

Quill,

Sorry to hear the Fan Mod. Kit did not work. I was really hoping it would. Please keep us posted. Panasonic has still not responded to my e-mail. It's been about 2 weeks.

From my own extensive experience of computer cooling over the years, I know that it boils down to: higher fan RPM = better cooling, bigger fan = better cooling. The bulk of noise does not come from fan vibration, but rather from airflow thru the fan blades. To go quieter but keep the same level of cooling, the only real option is to install a bigger slower fan. Everything else you do will have minimal effect. There is no easy way to install bigger fans in this TV, so until Panasonic redesign the chassis, I'm afraid you're stuck with it as it is. So henceforth let the official bulletin be...

"The Panasonic PT-54DL50 TV has a level of cooling fan noise that some people find distracting. Please bear this in mind when considering purchasing this set."

Zimberto,

My job is designing power supplies most of which use a fan. I live in the world of fans. Certainly, some of the fan noise in my PT-50DL54 is blade noise but the more irritating component of the fan noise is some form of vibration/resonance with the chassis or something internal. Like any other rotating device, fans can be (and most are) slightly out of balance - that can set up vibration/resonance. I was disappointed that Quill's TV fan noise did not change following what ever procedure was done to it. Do we know that this was a factory designed and authorized fix?

I have made this point before - at my house, people who watch this TV and have not been told about fan noise have never mentioned it. I do hear it but only when there is no programing or in the quietest of scenes.

The picture is great.

Phil Thackray

I agree with PThackray. I feel the biggest problem with the noise on this set is the resonance/vibration from the chassis, not the air movement itself.

I have heard that the noise is even more pronounced when set is on the factory stand. Any comments?

I'm planning on purchasing the PT-50DL54 in a few weeks but none of the big box stores in my area have them - so now I'm considering ordering one online. I've searched around for prices and have found some good deals from the typical Brooklyn, NY electronic stores. Does anyone have any experience with these types of stores? And also how does delivery work when you order from them - I live in an apartment and can't just have it dropped off outside.

Thanks

I just had my PT-50DL54 delivered (purchased at Great Indoors, aka Sears) and it won't startup. The set was connected by the delivery team while I was in the office (wife was supervising)... I figured it was something not connected properly, but that's not the case. I have cycled through plugging, unplugging and restarting. All I get is a blinking lamp light, no picture. One time it started momentarily and I entered the menu, then the TV shut itself off. Now, the power light is blinking in amber. Thoughts?

Called Panny service. They want me to self-diagnose the bulb and ballast. Not sure I want to start messing with a brand-new TV. Has anyone replaced a bulb in this model?

Just received my second PT-50DL54. The first one was a gift to my daughter and her mother this one is for my “father-in-law”. (I’m watching an HLN-507W). I got both PT’s from PlamaBay.com. This one was ordered last Tuesday and arrived today (eight days total). Everything works just fine like the first one. This TV was manufactured in November 2004 which is about as recent of a TV as you can get. I don’t think the fan noise on this TV is much less than my other PT which was manufactured in (I think) August. Therefore, I don’t think any fan noise improvement has been spliced into the production. Again, I sat and watched this TV tonight in an entirely different environment than the other PT (TV sitting on a stone tile floor- we’ll move it to Grandpa’s house later). I can hear the fan when the TV is off but have yet to be bothered by it during the program.

Panasonic has produced a very nice light engine with the HD2+ and eight color wheel (sorry there are some rainbows but they seem truncated relative to my HLN-507W which is a rainbow machine). I hope their next TV has:

1) ASTC/QAM/NSTC (ASTC 5th generation)
2) No side speakers
3) Two HDMI connectors
4) Two RF connectors (one for internally decoded cable and one for antenna)
5) Reduced fan and color wheel noise (a small amount of the “fan” noise is color wheel).

fivespeed,

Ordering on line, I live in fear of what happened to you. If you bought locally just call them up and have them replace it. In-store prices are quite a bit higher. Getting them to solve your problem is what you pay for.

Phil Thackray


Phil Thackray

Originally posted by Zimberto
Have a LOOK HERE (http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/503/7468786pt50dl54.jpg). I looked around many stores at the stands on offer but couldn't find one I liked at a price I was prepared to pay. I'm currently using a real-wood coffee table that I got at Meijer for about $80. It'll do until such times (if ever) I get a stand. It's the right height and has an under-shelf that holds my components. It doesn't look too bad since most everything else in the room is that shade of wood (cherry).

BTW, nevermind the coffee table, doesn't Windows Media Player look glorious at 52" !! :D

Zimberto,

How did you hook up your PC? I use the RGB and get a square view. I tried the S-Video and it looked like crap, what resolution do you set your computer to, what is the general setup?

Thanks

Originally posted by Ciao
Zimberto,

How did you hook up your PC? I use the RGB and get a square view. I tried the S-Video and it looked like crap, what resolution do you set your computer to, what is the general setup?

Thanks I'm using an ATI Radeon 9600 w/DVI and an ATI dongle. I connect the dongle to the TV using a component cable. The secret is to first choose a resolution of 1280x720, which then allows you to add custom resolutions based on that one. To do this, dig into the ATI advanced display properties (latest driver v4.11) and add a custom resolution using the sizing buttons. I ended up adding a new custom resolution of 1200x676. I then choose this resolution on the display properties and voila! I also went into the TV service menu and exactly centered the screen so that I got it all perfect.

I got the video card, dongle, and cable all from NewEgg.com. I find them usually cheap and always reliable.

The non-standard 1200x676 resolution I'm using is probably just a cropped version of the standard 1280x720 resolution. It suggests that the TV has about 6% overscan, which I think is normal. Because of the overscan issue, a 1:1 pixel mapping on the RGB input would be of limited use. That's my uneducated opinion anyway.

Great Indoors (Sears) offered to deliver a new one on the 26th, but because: 1. I didn't want to be without a TV for 4 days and 2. It doesn't really matter what happens to this set because a new one is on the way, I went ahead and pulled out the bulb/light assembly. I noticed immediately that the assembly was loose. I checked the bulb, looked fine. I inserted the assembly back into the set, which locked in nicely and powered back up. Amazingly, the set came to life in all its HD2+ glory. My only concern at this point is why the assembly was loose to begin with (dropped??), and whether I would be better off with a replacement set.

I'm glad I went with a local retailer, this could have been a terrible situation if I had to deal with a photo shop in NY. To Great Indoors' (Sears) credit, they matched the price I found at a local discount electronics store and actually beat it by 10%, in addition to free financing through Jan 2006. Plus, they were very helpful in dealing with my particular issue. Worth the extra $200 or so premium over the online shops IMO.

mine did the same thing but it was the lamp. the lamp blew and the glass bulb is shattered. I need a replacement. It was a loud pop. The sad thing is I just got my set yesterday. replacement on the way and this has been a horrendous year to buy a tv for me. Just don't get me started.

Originally posted by kumala
mine did the same thing but it was the lamp. the lamp blew and the glass bulb is shattered. I need a replacement. It was a loud pop. The sad thing is I just got my set yesterday. replacement on the way and this has been a horrendous year to buy a tv for me. Just don't get me started. Consider yourself started! :D What happened... you didn't buy a JVC D-ILA did you?

panny, I have another thread in which you replied. In the last 4 weeks I have gone through 4 tvs all with problems.

Kumala,

You're not alone. I've had a difficult year with TVs also. Two Toshibas arrived DOA and even though telephone customer support was very accomodating, I was still without TV for several weeks while exchanges/repairs were taking place. I have learned my lesson though and my next TV will be purchased at a retail store with a good return/replace policy.

Fivespeed,

That’s a good outcome! Your arrangement with Great Indoors worked out well. Here in Western PA nobody has even heard of the PT 50DL54. On-line is my only route. That was also true when I bought my HLN-507W. Now that the HLN-507W is an obsolete part you can find them in the stores!

Post your impressions of your PT 50DL54. Picture? Fan noise?

Phil Thackray

PThackray,

Interesting, I just upgraded from a HLN507W. I needed a similar 50" screen and was able to accomodate the wider footprint of the Panasonic. I researched the competing DLPs and was most impressed by the PQ on this set with the HD2+. Biggest downsides thus far, in order: 1. Lack of second HDMI input, 2. PQ on DTV channels when they are not broadcasting in HD mode, 3. Fan Noise. The fan noise issue, IMO, is overblown. It is there and is noticeable, but frankly it is quieter than my AV receiver and I don't hear it from my couch when I have the volume on a normal setting, unless I listen for it specifically. The picture is MUCH brighter than my previous HLN and the colors are awesome. I applied Topps settings and I am quite happy with the result. No regrets. BTW, my build date is Sept 2004.

Fivespeed

fivespeed, you have a PM.

Fivespeed, did you compare how SD looks on the Panny DLP vs the Panny
RP LCD, PT-50LC14? I haven't been able to see the Panny DLP in person since none of the B&M's seem to have it yet. Their RP LCD seems to get a lot of positive remarks as to how good SD looks on it. I was hoping the DLP with integrated ATSC tuner would be out by now, it was announced last Jan. & is still not available.

I didn't compare the PT-50DL54 with any of the Panny LCDs. I am not sold on LCD technology, particularly because of the black levels even on the latest generation LCDs I have recently looked at (Sony XS). I was primarily comparing HD2+ DLPs, specifically the Mitsubishi and Samsung xx74 series. Regarding the ATSC tuner, this is not an issue for me because I cannot receive OTA DTV in my area and I am using a DISH 811 HDTV receiver (which has a ATSC tuner). ATSC tuners are dirt cheap, I wouldn't let that hold you back.

Originally posted by tjdean
Fivespeed, did you compare how SD looks on the Panny DLP vs the Panny
RP LCD, PT-50LC14? I haven't been able to see the Panny DLP in person since none of the B&M's seem to have it yet. Their RP LCD seems to get a lot of positive remarks as to how good SD looks on it. I was hoping the DLP with integrated ATSC tuner would be out by now, it was announced last Jan. & is still not available.

I spent quite a bit of time comparing the 50" Panasonic DLP and LCD sets. Both had great pictures, and the differences were very slight. The DLP picture was a tiny bit better on dark scenes. But on the DLP I also occasionally saw slightly greenish bands on closeups of faces, especially when there was some motion in the scene (like the camera panning across a scene). I think this is the effect that some people have described as "clay faces" in some of the other threads. Apparently it is common among most DLP sets; it's not unique to the Panasonic. The effect was very slight, but once I noticed it, it kept bothering me. That was what eventually made me choose the PT-50LC14 (LCD). But I probably could have been happy with either one.

Hello All -

I've got a PT-60DL54 on order (they said two weeks, but I'm not surprised that it's been two months and there's still no ship date), and am trying to find the matching Panasonic stand for it. Finding the correct TY-60DL54K stand for it is important, because my wife's only input on the selection was aesthetics, and she's going to be mad if I get anything other than what I showed her (I was going to buy a Samsung DLP, but she didn't like the look - that's the level of control we're talking about).

Can anybody steer me to someplace I can buy a TY-60DL54K? They're not easy to find on the web. I don't want to clash with forum rules, so I'm not looking for pricing, just a steer to some kind of dealer.

airshark, doing a google search for that stand brought up this:
http://www.datavis.com/category.jsp?cgid=307&ctid=1&brid=501

Does anyone know what the Y-OS control that appears in the service menu is used for? and how is it different from the Y-G control?

Regarding fan noise, I have had the problem on appliances before, the resonation was the culprit. The fix: a base of vibration absorbing material (for a fridge, it was a chunk of styrofoam). Anyone tried to install a thin piece of rubber under the unit? It could be cut to the shape of the base and be virtually unnoticeable. I have always had Panasonice CRT's, and will be buying the DLP come tax time. Seeing as I don't have one as of yet I am not able to try this out. My memory was piqued by a comment ^^^ that the sound became very noticeable once the tv was taken off the carpetted floor and place on a stand. Just a thought....

Ok, after seeing the panny at my local B&M and comparing it to all the other sets, I'm sold!!! Gotta have it!

My question is, I see a few people here have bought them online. Someone mentioned being afraid of dealing with a camera shop in NYC. I've noticed though that there are some fairly highly rated online vendors with good reputations, such as Abe's, Etronics, and a couple others.

Has anyone else besides the people who have already posted about it bought theirs online? Anyone had any major problems?? I'm a bit worried about buying something this expensive and fragile online. I'm taking a printout of online prices to my B&M along with a copy of their own e-commerce policy stating that they will beat any price, but if they don't, I may have to go the online route since the difference is anywhere between 500 and 700.00.

Originally posted by lostcause
Ok, after seeing the panny at my local B&M and comparing it to all the other sets, I'm sold!!! Gotta have it!

My question is, I see a few people here have bought them online. Someone mentioned being afraid of dealing with a camera shop in NYC. I've noticed though that there are some fairly highly rated online vendors with good reputations, such as Abe's, Etronics, and a couple others.

Has anyone else besides the people who have already posted about it bought theirs online? Anyone had any major problems?? I'm a bit worried about buying something this expensive and fragile online. I'm taking a printout of online prices to my B&M along with a copy of their own e-commerce policy stating that they will beat any price, but if they don't, I may have to go the online route since the difference is anywhere between 500 and 700.00. You're going the right way about it. It's usualy better to get it locally, but if they can't get close to the online price then you gotta move on.

Online customer reviews mean a lot, especially if they are good. The tendency is for mostly irate customers to post their gripes, but if you get a lot of happy customers taking the time to post positive reviews for a store, that says a lot. Because of this I always take look at the ratings from resellerratings.com and dealtime.com. If 99% of 500 people there say they are happy with their purchase, then why post here and ask? It's always best to look at the big picture rather than one or two guys saying they were happy/unhappy.

Keep in mind that the retailer isn't the only variable, the most likely cause of damage is the shipping company. Most shipping companies don't provide white glove service (ie. in home setup), they will simply bring it to the door and take off. If there is damage to the set, you will have to contact the online vendor, hope they are in a good mood, and arrange for the TV to be picked-up and replaced. I have read numerous posts about online vendors waiting until they receive reimbursement from the shipping company before they will provide a refund or replacement set. May not happen to you, but is it worth the risk to save a couple hundred bucks?

In my case, I received a damaged set. I called Great Indoors and they brought a replacement with two days. No issue.

Originally posted by lostcause
Ok, after seeing the panny at my local B&M and comparing it to all the other sets, I'm sold!!! Gotta have it!

My question is, I see a few people here have bought them online. Someone mentioned being afraid of dealing with a camera shop in NYC. I've noticed though that there are some fairly highly rated online vendors with good reputations, such as Abe's, Etronics, and a couple others.

I haven't (yet) bought a TV online, but from my experience buying other electronic items online I don't give a lot of weight to online user ratings. After placing the order for a $500+ receiver, I was immediately asked to rate the experience. I didn't have anything to rate except the checkout process, but it wasn't clear whether I'd get a later chance to rate the seller after receiving the item, when I'd actually have some basis for rating. If that's ratings are typically gathered, the data are useless.

cmonsammy, that's why I asked about people's experiences from this forum. I dont trust those ratings all that much either.

Anyways, went to the local B&M and boy was I disappointed. They wouldn't even come close to the internet prices.

Maybe I'm missing something, but here's a c/p directly from their website describing their e-commerce policy:

"BrandsMart USA company policy and goal has always been to offer our customers the best value in appliances, consumer electronics and housewares in the South Florida marketplace.

In keeping with that policy, we feel that we can best serve our customers with lower prices in our store locations than can be found on the Internet, so at this time BrandsMart USA is not offering e-commerce on our site.

BrandsMart USA has the best price on any current model appliances, consumer electronics and housewares. Shop and bring your best verifiable quote on any in stock item to one of our Product Specialists and BrandsMart USA will beat the price. "

Now, maybe I'm just easily misled, but this gives the impression that they can and will beat internet prices. Does anyone else think this is somewhat deceptive, or am I the only one? I brought them a printout of over 20 vendors with lower prices for the panny than they had. Several showed to be in stock. They refused to match it, and basically ignored their own e-commerce policy.

Anyways, I think I'll be ordering it online tomorrow. The price difference is just too big. I could handle one or two hundred difference, but we're talking about 500.00.

Howaryuh's suggestion re: possible fan sound reduction is interesting. Has anyone tried it? (I can't since I don't have the set...yet!)

Hi lostcause,

I, like you, spent a lot of time ogling sets and reading the info in this forum, and came to the conclusion that the Panasonic DLP was the clear winner. The fan noise has been the ONLY problem that anyone has mentioned, and I don't think the fan noise on the Panny is any worse in general than any other HD2+ sets.

Also like you, I am now evaluating options for buying the set. I fear you are correct that no B&M outlet is going to come close to matching online pricing, especially when 6.5% sales tax is factored in (here in MN).

Right now, it looks like Abe's of Maine and etronics are good reliable options. I'm sure there are many more.

In my case, I am probably waiting a few more months as we have other remodeling going on, and I'm hoping for further price drops in the next 3-4 months.

Good luck in buying your set!

The site at Abe's of Maine has a summary for the Panasonic DLP that claims that it has "built-in ATSC/QAM/NTSC tuning, HDMI (High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection), Photo Viewer (SD and PCMCIA memory card slots, CableCARD slots"

The rest of the page does not mention ATSC/QAM or CableCARD, and the operating manual seems to make no mention of these features. Can someone confirm that these features in fact DO NOT exist?

DLP-Dave, did you also look at the JVC? I went to another store today and compared them again. The panny continued to look smoother and deeper than the d-ila, although it was very close. I asked about pricing at this other store, but they weren't able to touch the online pricing either.

I have one more option I'm going to try before I give up and order online. I doubt it will work, but if it does, it will get me to within 50.00 of reliable online prices. I may also be able to get a better price on the d-ila if I finally go that route. I don't like the panny's side speakers, but the picture quality is good enough to make up for that.

The Panasonic 50" DLP with integrated ATSC tuner is model PT-50DLD54 which is not yet available. It was announced last Jan. at the CES show with an availability date of Oct. '04 but as yet has not hit retailers.

lostcause,

Yes, I looked at the JVC D-ILA, and I did like the PQ on it, but as you said, I found the Panny DLP to be slightly superior. Also, there seem to be a lot of problems reported on this forum in regards to the D-ILA.

I personally don't mind the side speakers at all, and they do seem to have very good sound quality, so that's one more reason the Panny is the clear winner for me.

Cool. The only reason I couldn't care less about the speakers is that I have a nice surround system and have never used the speakers on my TV. I wonder though if there's a way to use the panny's speakers as the L/R channels of a 5.1 or DTS feed? That would save me a bit of space and definitely make it even more attractive.

Anyone know if that's possible??

Originally posted by tdchayes
The site at Abe's of Maine has a summary for the Panasonic DLP that claims that it has "built-in ATSC/QAM/NTSC tuning, HDMI (High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection), Photo Viewer (SD and PCMCIA memory card slots, CableCARD slots"

The rest of the page does not mention ATSC/QAM or CableCARD, and the operating manual seems to make no mention of these features. Can someone confirm that these features in fact DO NOT exist?

This comment mistakenly showed up a few months ago in several internet merchants' descriptions. The upcoming ATSC tuner model is the PT-50DLD64, not yet released as far as I can tell.

Originally posted by DLP-Dave
lostcause,

Yes, I looked at the JVC D-ILA, and I did like the PQ on it, but as you said, I found the Panny DLP to be slightly superior. Also, there seem to be a lot of problems reported on this forum in regards to the D-ILA.

I personally don't mind the side speakers at all, and they do seem to have very good sound quality, so that's one more reason the Panny is the clear winner for me.

I agree, the sound on this TV is a bit underrated. It sounds very good to my ears and when you turn on the BBE enhancement it really makes a big difference.

Originally posted by lostcause
Ok, after seeing the panny at my local B&M and comparing it to all the other sets, I'm sold!!! Gotta have it!

My question is, I see a few people here have bought them online. Someone mentioned being afraid of dealing with a camera shop in NYC. I've noticed though that there are some fairly highly rated online vendors with good reputations, such as Abe's, Etronics, and a couple others.

Has anyone else besides the people who have already posted about it bought theirs online? Anyone had any major problems?? I'm a bit worried about buying something this expensive and fragile online. I'm taking a printout of online prices to my B&M along with a copy of their own e-commerce policy stating that they will beat any price, but if they don't, I may have to go the online route since the difference is anywhere between 500 and 700.00.
And in my local Sound Track this set is priced at $3499. $200 over MSRP. The guy would not budge on this. He said that is the price in their system. Then they wonder why they are struggling. Anyway it seems like in my case online I would save a lot. Tough decision.

damn!! You're looking at saving around $1300 by going with a place like Abe's. TVAuthority also has decent pricing on them, but still a bit higher than places like Abe's and etronics. For me the difference is about 500, but for 1300 or 1400, I wouldn't even think twice about it. You could take that 1300 and get a smaller 42" set for your bedroom!!!! Or an XBOX, AND a PS2, AND a gamecube, and a crapload of games for each!!! Or a kickass tv stand, a DVD player, and a decent recliner to kick back in while you watch TV. Or...well, you get the picture.....

Oh, and still have some left over for an extended warranty!!!

I got my Sammy HLN 507W from BestBuyPlasma.com and two Panny PT-50dl54’s from PlasmaBay.com. All TVs arrived in perfect condition. The latest PT-50DL54 I got was manufactured in November 2004 – that’s fresh stock. Both of these companies are owned by the same parent who also owns other “plasma” named dot coms. These are New Jersey companies so there is no state tax if shipped elsewhere. Shipping is about $250.00.

If there is something wrong with the TV these companies say that they are under manufacturers warranty and that local people will come and repair the unit in your home. I have never tested this claim so I can’t speak for what happens if something is wrong with the TV. Since I’ve saved about $4000.00 over the cost of buying these TV’s locally, at this point having a problem would not bother me too much. Not to mention that at the time I bought these sets, they were not available locally.

While some sites claim that the PT-50DL54 has an ASTC turner, it does not.

Phil Thackray

So does anyone know if there is an easy way to use the built in speakers as the L/R channels of a 5.1 or DTS system? I'm not opposed to opening it up and running speaker wires out if the speakers will handle the output from a receiver at low to mid volume levels and sound decent.

How will you input the video signal to the TV, and does your A/V receiver have either front channel pre-outs or zone 2 configuration?

Video to tv will be either component or DVI -> HDMI. The receiver is an onkyo HTR500, it has L/R pre-outs for the video1 input source, and I'm not sure what you mean by zone2 configuration, but it does have A and B speaker outputs. A is full 5.1 and B is just L/R.

Does the panny have L/R inputs? Also, my understanding is that if it does, I would have to control the L/R volume using the TV's volume control. This could be a difficult balancing act with a 5.1 setup.

I have what is effectively a $2500 gift certificate at Tweeter good only toward the purchase of a single new TV. I am seriously considering this TV though I have yet to see it. I am coming from a Toshiba TW40X81 CRT base widescreen hd set. I watch a lot of standard D*tv. Am I going to be disappointed with DLP in general and this TV specifically? I am also considering the 50" kirk model. The cost difference is negligible as I have to buy a TV stand for the Panny. Any thoughts anyone?

Could someone measure the width of the entire 50" unit? The Panny site says it's 55.8" but I don't believe that it's that wide. I need to see if I can fit this in a corner.

Thanks

Originally posted by caeguy
Could someone measure the width of the entire 50" unit? The Panny site says it's 55.8" but I don't believe that it's that wide. I need to see if I can fit this in a corner.

Thanks The Panny site is correct. Remember, the 50 inches is measured diagonally.

I'm a bit rusty on my math, but if the diagonal is 50, then the horizontal base must be less than that. How wide are the speakers on the sides?

Originally posted by acourvil
I'm a bit rusty on my math, but if the diagonal is 50, then the horizontal base must be less than that. How wide are the speakers on the sides? Use Pythagoras's theorum...

x^2 + y^2 = 50^2

and

x:y = 16:9 => 9x = 16y => y=9x/16

so

x^2 + (9x/16)^2 = 2500
x^2 + 81(x^2)/256 = 2500
337(x^2)/256 = 2500
337(x^2) = 640000
x^2 = 1899
x = 43.6 inches (y is therefore = 24.5)

so

If the width of the screen is 43.6 and the width of the tv is 55.8, then the width of the speakers is (55.8 - 43.6)/2 = 6.1 inches either side.

[Needless to say it's a Saturday morning and I've little else to do! :D ]

Actual measurement of my PT-50DL54 is just slightly under 56" in width. However, the TV is only 4" deep at the ends.

Phil

Originally posted by PThackray
Actual measurement of my PT-50DL54 is just slightly under 56" in width. However, the TV is only 4" deep at the ends.

Phil

Thanks...

Anyone know where I can look at this TV in the Houston area? I looked at it at Tweeter in Sugarland, and their feed must not have been very good, it was the worst looking TV in the shop. I had seen it before Christmas and it looked really good.

A couple more questions:

1. Anyone have the dimensions of the shipping box? I'm wondering if this will fit in my Expedition.

2. I would like to mount my center channel on top of this unit. What are my options?

3. What would be the ideal dimension from the floor to the bottom of the base? I need to find a stand that would provide the best height. I would like to find a stand that has 2 shelves without compromising the overall height of the center point.

Thanks

Originally posted by caeguy A couple more questions:

1. Anyone have the dimensions of the shipping box? I'm wondering if this will fit in my Expedition.Weirdly enough I do. The box is 63"x40"x21" (LxHxW) and probably should not be laid flat.2. I would like to mount my center channel on top of this unit. What are my options?You won't be able to set anything directly on top of this TV.3. What would be the ideal dimension from the floor to the bottom of the base?For me it was 16". I found a 22" inch high stand too high.

Zimberto,

Thanks....what do you do for a center channel location? Having such a small (height) stand will not give me allot of space for components and center channel.

Originally posted by caeguy
Zimberto,

Thanks....what do you do for a center channel location? Having such a small (height) stand will not give me allot of space for components and center channel. I just use the tv speakers since I've no big interest in surround sound... in fact I strongly dislike it. My advice is to wait until you get the tv before you buy a stand. I made the mistake of buying the wrong stand before mine arrived. Use a coffee table in the meanwhile, while you are deciding on your arrangement.

I have a 21.5" high stand by Sanus (Model PFPL). Three shelves total. I think the height is perfect.

Phil

I started a thread about this but thought I might get a good response here, so, sorry for the double post but I just got a 50" panny DLP and had a couple of questions/problems.

1. Is there any way to find out what format picture is being sent to the tv? In my old mits, it would tell me if it was 1080i, 480i, 480p, etc.. I can't seem to figure it out on the panny. When I hit the "recall" button, it tells me what input it's using, the color mode (vivid, standard, etc..) but no resolution info. Under the input where it looks like it should tell me the resolution, it just has six dashes. - - - - - - like that. I've tried different cables, different sources -satellite, dvd player, s-video, etc... same thing every time. Help!!!

2. When I send a 480i signal to it, the picture seems like it's shifted down by about 1/2 inch and I have a 1/2 inch black space at the top of the picture. How do I fix this? I'm not afraid to go into the service menu, so if anyone can help I'd appreciate it.

Any ideas?

Originally posted by caeguy
3. What would be the ideal dimension from the floor to the bottom of the base? I need to find a stand that would provide the best height. I would like to find a stand that has 2 shelves without compromising the overall height of the center point.

Thanks

Well I think the the height of your TV is a very subjective thing. A lot depends on your personal viewing habits. Mine is on a 23.5" stand it for me it's perfect. However, I very rarely lay on the floor to watch TV so that might be a consideration. If you go to Best Buys or Circuit City and view some of their sets at different heights, that might help you make up your mind. Also, I should say that I'm taller than the average person and my living room furniture sits higher than most.

In case you are interested, here's the stand that I purchased. I actually got it for $10 less since I bought it directly from the store. It looks great, is very sturdy, and was fairly easy to put together (although I know that's relative too).

I don't think I'm allowed to post actual links yet so you'll have to copy and paste this to your browser. Hope this helps.

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Z-Line-Designs-36--TV-Stand--Z3226-1S-/sem/rpsm/oid/82360/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

Originally posted by lostcause
I started a thread about this but thought I might get a good response here, so, sorry for the double post but I just got a 50" panny DLP and had a couple of questions/problems.

1. Is there any way to find out what format picture is being sent to the tv? In my old mits, it would tell me if it was 1080i, 480i, 480p, etc.. I can't seem to figure it out on the panny. When I hit the "recall" button, it tells me what input it's using, the color mode (vivid, standard, etc..) but no resolution info. Under the input where it looks like it should tell me the resolution, it just has six dashes. - - - - - - like that. I've tried different cables, different sources -satellite, dvd player, s-video, etc... same thing every time. Help!!!

2. When I send a 480i signal to it, the picture seems like it's shifted down by about 1/2 inch and I have a 1/2 inch black space at the top of the picture. How do I fix this? I'm not afraid to go into the service menu, so if anyone can help I'd appreciate it.

Any ideas?

The Service menu will tell you what resolution is being fed to the TV. It's a bummer that it doesn't show up when you change channels, or with the recall button.

The Service menu will also allow you to correct picture alignment issues. Just be sure and write down all of the factory setting before you make any changes. There is no way to set the TV back to the Factory defaults. The settings you may be interested in are H-POS and V-POS.

Alignment settings are set for each input. If you are having an issue with 480i, you need to feed it a 480i signal, then go in to the service menu to adjust.

LMAO. Next time buy a SONY.

Originally posted by blackngold19
LMAO. Next time buy a SONY. Only if you want your tv to spend most of its time in the repair shop. LMAO! :D

Originally posted by Zimberto
Only if you want your tv to spend most of its time in the repair shop. LMAO! :D

Panny is Sony's beatch!!!:D

blackngold19
Sony GwIV 42 Or 50 Extended Warranty

If they worked out the kinks with the GWIII would you trust Sony with the 1yr or go for an extended 2 or 4 yr plan. Only reason I say this is to lessen the investmetn now because in 2-3yrs I'm going to probably want the latest and greates again and don't want to be still paying for this one.

This from a guy who likes and trusts Sony!?!?:rolleyes:

JW

I looked briefly at the sonys but just couldn't deal with the picture. The LCDs to me looked washed out and i could clearly see the screen door effect.

Originally posted by Jim Wy
This from a guy who likes and trusts Sony!?!?:rolleyes:

JW

I trust Sony, the reason mainly for asking the warranty question is because of the bulb issues. You can have your cheesy Panasonic with it nasty silver color and proprietary base.

Originally posted by lostcause
I looked briefly at the sonys but just couldn't deal with the picture. The LCDs to me looked washed out and i could clearly see the screen door effect.

Every LCD or DLP oR D-ILA has SDE. You were probably standing too close to the set. It's weird, because I thought DLP gave me eye strain. LCD just looks better to my eyes. I think everyone sees things differently. I too was turned off by Sony LCD's at first, but the more I looked, the more they looked better to my eyes. Make sure wherever you are viewing the set had decent feeds to the set.

Originally posted by blackngold19
I trust Sony, the reason mainly for asking the warranty question is because of the bulb issues. You can have your cheesy Panasonic with it nasty silver color and proprietary base.
So I gather you don't like Panasonic, that is fine. I don't like Sony but you don't see me posting bad things over at the Sony threads.

a couple more questions....

I have an old Avia dvd and was playing around with it yesterday. My color decoder looked a little off. Green was pretty good, but red was way overaccentuated, coming in around 15 or 20%. Blue was a little off too.

From reading here it looks like the color decoders are usually pretty good on these. Any ideas?

Also, has anyone tried using the internal speakers as their L/R speakers from their surround systems? I opened one of them up and it looks like it might be pretty easy to run a speaker wire out but I'm worried about the wattage rating. Has anyone tried doing this?

As for a stand for the TV, someone mentioned Ikea stands are cheap but I can't seem to find a good source for them. Does anyone know where to buy them?

As for the earlier questions I asked, is there a way to get out of the service menu without having to turn the tv off and then having to wait several minutes before you turn it on again?