In todays Sunday paper Best Buy is advertising the new model 61" Panasonic DLP.

Hope the fans are quiet this time, they sure look nice with the thin bezel frame. I still think the HD2+ DLP is the one to beat.

Scott (srw1000),

Yes I think you can do it. You seem to know how to get into the service menu - but don't go there yet.

In the manual it says to Set Picture Mode to Vivid and Color Temp to Cool and Picture Settings to Normalized. I would write down your values for your Color, Tint, Picture, Brightness and Sharpness first. I have found that just exiting the service menu drops those settings back to factory presets so it is helpful to have them.

The manual also says to "apply a color bar pattern". I had the service guy bring his test pattern generator but I found out later that the patterns you really need are in the set already. After he left I bumped the "wheel" index value up by one or two values just to see if it made much of a difference and I just had a regular picture from a DVD player running behind the service menu. You could use a test pattern from Avia or DVE if you want to as well. Or if you have a particularily offending scene from your favorite movie put it on in the background.

Anyhow, enter the service menu and select the "CW-I" and press OK on the remote. The screen will display something like this:

00F2 00E7

The manual says the default setting is 00EE (mine was 00E7 before I started, it is now 00EB). I haven't done any computer science in years but I think that there are 16 possible values, 0 to 9 then A =10, B =11 etc up to F =16.

At this point you press the Recall button on your remote contol. The first thing to come up is a Red Colour Ramp. It repeats twice across the screen. If the ramp isn't smooth you can see it imediately. All you do it move the index value up and down the range (I think you use the volume up and down buttons on the remote for this). I went as low as 00E0 and right up to 00EF just to see what it would do, and then settled on 00EB (the service guy had it on 00EA).

When you are happy with it you press Recall again and the Green Colour Ramp comes up. My green ramp was the worst one and I think it had to be the main contributor to the problem. The thing to remember here is that the Color Wheel Index adjusts all of the colours at once so if you decide to change the value on screen here, it is also going to change the setting you just made to the Red Ramp. That is likely going to be OK because you will have probably found that on the Red Ramp there was a couple of different settings that looked alright.

When you are happy with Green, press Recall again and the Blue Colour Ramp comes up. It will probably look just fine, but if not, make your adjustment and press Recall again. This will put you into a grey ramp (if I remember correctly - I was suprized because it wasn't mentioned in the manual - if it isn't there then I must have been thinking of something else and I apologize) and then you can go back to Red again and start over. When you have it how you want it press OK and it keeps the setting.

Another cool place to get patterns from is the "DDP" setting in the service menu. I seem to recall that it had color bars, crosshatch grids, and a couple of others. I didn't try selecting one of those and then going back to the Color Wheel setting (recall that I mentioned that the manual tells you to "apply a color bar pattern") but that is what I will do if I have to go back in there for anything. To use the DDP patterns just select DDP from the service menu by pressing OK then press Recall to display the patterns. Again, I didn't try it but I suspect that if you hit OK the patten might stay up for you to use in making other adjustments (like using the crosshatch to do the Horizontal {HPOS} and Vertical {VPOS} Positions adjustments.

To exit the service menu you can unplug the TV, or press and hold the Volume down button on the front of the TV and the OK button on the remote at the same time.

I hope this works for you Scott. I would be interested in knowing what your CW Index was set to before you started because, as I said before, the manual suggests a default of 00EE and mine was 00E7.

Mike

Thanks for the instructions, Mike. I really want to see if this will help reduce the banding, which I'm either noticing more, or has gotten worse over the last few months.

I'll post an update after I've made the adjustments.

Scott

Well, I followed Mike's instructions (thanks, Mike!), and was able to make some small adjustments to the color wheel using the built-in color screens. The factory setting for my TV was 00EA. The adjustments are most visible on the green screen. I've included a picture of what the screen looks like when improperly adjusted. After adjusting the color wheel setting, I'd say that the banding has been reduced by about 50% under typical viewing.

A few things that I noticed:

1) Mike's instructions say to use the Vivid setting. I did this, but once I turned the setting back to my normal Cinema setting, the banding increased. I changed it back to Cinema, and made my adjustments from there. So, the picture mode setting has a real affect on the CW index.

2) As I was making the adjustments, there were some weird green flashes across the screen. They only lasted a fraction of a second, and I'd guess they were probably a result of the wheel changing speed as it realigned.

3) The green screen was the most severely affected by the CW index, and the easiest to make adjustments to. The sweet spot was a range of about 2-3 values, where the effect was minimal between settings.

4) The grey ramp test from DVE is a real torture test for this set. Even after adjustment, there are clearly reddish-purple and green vertical lines across the gray scale. The colors remain regardless of the actual color setting on the set's main picture menu, even if color is turned down all the way to zero.

5) It's hard to take a good picture of this set. The files I've attached make the colors lines look less distinct than they do in real life. They get the general idea across, though.

6) This set loves blue. This observation isn't related to the CW index adjustment, but just a general observation. Anytime a blue picture (the deeper the blue the better) my jaw still drops. Green, not so much.

In summary, the adjustment was worth doing, but hasn't completely solved the problem.

The DVE gray ramp picture is particularly troubling to me. Has anyone been able to display this pattern without seeing the color bands? If so, I would think my set is defective, and I'd like to get if fixed. If not, I guess it's just a limitation of the technology.

Scott

Scott,

I was avidly watching for your response as i am about to attempt the same changes myself.

I hope i am as happy as you were with the result. i love the set, but the reds and pinks in the grey are so annoying. i notice however that while watching HDTV i don't see the banding. it becomes very apparent while watching DVDs through the hdmi input.

(note i am using the component inputs for HDTV) i wonder if that has something to do with the banding?

Craig

Scott,

I am glad that you met with some success in your adjustments. I guess that each wheel is different in that your initial setting is only one click away from my final setting.

I concur with your findings that the green makes the most difference. I speculate that may be due to the green carrying the "grey" part of the signal. By that I mean that from what I have read about in other threads when it comes to setting grey scale with a set with component inputs they talk about disconnecting the Red and Blue cables and dropping the color adjustment down to zero to get a good idea of the grey scale in the set. (I am not suggesting that anyone do that because there was a whole bunch of other problems that could come up if you do that - I am only saying that it was on that basis that I came to speculate that the green was so important).

I found that for about two weeks I left it how the service techs had set it and then I decided to move it one click up the scale. As you say it was in the "sweet spot" and you couldn't really tell when just looking at the green whether one of those "spots" was better than the other. It sounds to me though that your viewing after the fact confirms that you might want to go up or down one click to see if that makes a difference. It seems that once you lay some red and blue on the green to make the grey thats when you can really tell if it is working right.

I find the DVE grey ramps look very nice now. Unfortunately, as you point out, it is hard to take a good picture of this set because of differences between the human eye, the digital camera's processing speed and the speed of the DMD chip and the Color Wheel. If I can figure it out I will post it. I also use my set as my computer monitor so if you look at a picture of someone elses grey scale and yours isn't set right how do you know if it isn't your monitor's settings causing the problem (maybe you have to print it out and hope that your printer is set up right).

I would try mvoing the setting one or two clicks up or down from where you are now and if that doesn't fix it then I would look at getting it replaced like Grimore did.

Craig,

I wonder what DVD player you are using because I have heard a lot of complaints about pinks and reds in the Panasonic S97 with the 528 firmware. I upgraded mine to the 540 and it took that problem away. You may not be using that player but I thought I would mention it. (Mine is also hooked up on HDMI, with HD satelite on component until I can get an HDMI switch). Good luck with your tweaks.

Mike

In summary, the adjustment was worth doing, but hasn't completely solved the problem.

The DVE gray ramp picture is particularly troubling to me. Has anyone been able to display this pattern without seeing the color bands? If so, I would think my set is defective, and I'd like to get if fixed. If not, I guess it's just a limitation of the technology.

Scott


Scott,

I too did the CW adjustments and had similar results. Red and blue test patterns looked fine, but I couldn't get all of the banding out of the green screen. When going back to the gray ramp on DVE after adjustment, the banding was reduced but definitely still there. Its not so much the discrete banding that bothers me, but its the "green" tint to some of the bands that is distracting.

There is some evidence to suggest it's possible to not have these bands, as Grimoire's post about a board and color wheel replacement suggested this eliminated his banding problem. I am probably going to call a local servicer to have my set looked at (per suggestion of Panasonic email support), but I have been avoiding it because it is a busy time of year and I am not real sure about the quality of my local service centers.

BTW - Where are you in WI? I'm in La Crosse....

Scott,

I was avidly watching for your response as i am about to attempt the same changes myself.

I hope i am as happy as you were with the result. i love the set, but the reds and pinks in the grey are so annoying. i notice however that while watching HDTV i don't see the banding. it becomes very apparent while watching DVDs through the hdmi input.

(note i am using the component inputs for HDTV) i wonder if that has something to do with the banding?

Craig
Craig,

Let us know how you fare after the adjustment.

I agree, the banding is least visible on HDTV. I was really hoping to hear that it would be reduced by using the DVI input, since the set wouldn't have to do as much processing. Soon, I'll have a Voom receiver and I'll compare the banding in that with my current receiver (Sylvania connected via component).

The worst picture source for me is my Dish Network 721. The banding almost makes some shows unwatchable. This has been slightly corrected with the color wheel adjustment, but it still looks bad. I've noticed another picture problem readily visible on Dish, that I hesitate to mention at this point, for fear of having any of you see it also.

DVDs usually look pretty good, depending on the transfer, but I can ususally see some banding.

Scott

It sounds to me though that your viewing after the fact confirms that you might want to go up or down one click to see if that makes a difference. It seems that once you lay some red and blue on the green to make the grey thats when you can really tell if it is working right.

I would try mvoing the setting one or two clicks up or down from where you are now and if that doesn't fix it then I would look at getting it replaced like Grimore did.
Mike,

I think I'll give the set a couple of weeks at it's current setting to see how it looks, and then try adjusting the color wheel setting again.

Thanks again for posting about this service menu setting. Is there anything else hiding in there that might improve the picture?

Scott

Scott,

I too did the CW adjustments and had similar results. Red and blue test patterns looked fine, but I couldn't get all of the banding out of the green screen. When going back to the gray ramp on DVE after adjustment, the banding was reduced but definitely still there. Its not so much the discrete banding that bothers me, but its the "green" tint to some of the bands that is distracting.
I'm probably over-critical, but I find all of the banding distracting - especially on flesh-tones. This is really evident in the darkness of a good horror movie, where the bands almost look like tattoos on the faces and arms of the actors.

There is some evidence to suggest it's possible to not have these bands, as Grimoire's post about a board and color wheel replacement suggested this eliminated his banding problem. I am probably going to call a local servicer to have my set looked at (per suggestion of Panasonic email support), but I have been avoiding it because it is a busy time of year and I am not real sure about the quality of my local service centers.
I'd be interested to hear your results. If this is something that can be eliminated (not just reduced), I'll definitely be calling Panasonic. I'm afraid they're just going to say that it's a limit of the technology. It seems strange that five or more of us have noticed this - that seems like a large number for a defect. I would guess that there are a lot of people out there who just don't notice the problem.

BTW - Where are you in WI? I'm in La Crosse....
I'm about 40 miles due north of Milwaukee. Too bad we're not closer, we could do a comparison and exchange notes.

Scott

Hey guys, just a quick update. I worked with the color wheel index setting two nights ago. oddly enough, my default setting was 00EC, i actually ended up moving it back to 00EE (i believe this was mentioned as default in the service manual?) That gave me a perfect Red ramp. it also ended being the best possible setting for the green ramp so i left it there.

It actually had a nice impact on the banding BUT, i was still having major issues with the overly pink tones everywhere.

Well after searching through the forum a bit more, i noticed a few more posts of people with my issue. I had been using Topps setting as my baseline.

I ended up change WB back to 00, colour temp back to warm and moving tint to 40.

HUGE difference. although i still see some pink it is vastly reduced. I was seeing quite a bit of banding and this has now been significantly reduced as well.

My sharpness setting is currently at 10 because i can't quite bring myself to enjoy the softness of the picture at 0. i think i might see a little less banding if i brought it down more, but i think i can live with what i have for now.

MIKE -

I too am using an s97 with the my set. actually updated my player the day i plugged it in, so it using firmware 540. I actually wonder if the HDMI input has something to do with the pink tones. I am going to attempt to use component wires from the DVD player on the same scenes to see if the pinkness still appears.

(*note - I actually really love this player and Combo, and minor problems aside it is much better than my previous pioneer player)

I do not notice the pinkness at all while watching HD or SD television, but the TV shows i watch never have much gray.

Craig

Ok, I played around with my digital camera last night to try to get a decent picture of the DVE grayscale that we have been talking about. The problem is that the camera is faster than the human eye so it picks up colors that aren't apparent to my eyes at least.

I had to set the camera to VGA quality and I played around with lighting in front of the picture and with the flash on and played with F stop settings. I think the first and last ones are about the best I can put up. The middle one just shows how difficult it is to photograph.

I'm considering purchasing a floor model PT50DL54, however I would like to first determine how many hours are on the bulb. I couldn't seem to find a post in this thread regarding how to access the service menu (I assume you would need to access the service menu for this) to check the bulb usage. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Can't find that out its not in the service menu.

Try and find a new one, from my experience floor model DLPs are not worth the discount.
Bulb time lost is one reason, another is the color wheel time, and the impact bumping the set can have on color wheel speed. If the color wheel is not just right you will see more banding in dim scenes.

Bulb time is not just actual hours of use, turning the set on/off takes it down 6 hours each time as well.

I guess at some price a floor model is OK, but you will see the picture long after the price paid is forgotten.

Any News?

If it fixed the problem i will call in...

Thanks
Azfox,

Look through this thread for my posts on the Random Black Out. What you describe is similar although much more extreme. Mine only blacked out about 1/week (only slightly annoying). They just replaced my chassis (light engine) and I get it back tomorrow. Hopefully, it's fixed.

It took them (repair center) about 6 weeks to get a new (or rebuilt one) from Panasonic -- not a big deal to me since mine only blacks out every once in a while. If I'm you, I get Panasonic involved right away or send the set back to Amazon. You're problems are so extreme that I wouldn't mess around.

Good luck !

Anyone seen the new Panny DLP's yet,
seems the other manufacturers all have the new 720p sets out now,
and some 1080p showing up too.?

Hi guy's just bought a 50" last week..Picture out of the box was real nice..But I have noticed a red tinge to peoples faces @ speific angles..I have seen post about the service menu but am unable to get into it..I have tried Volume - recall & nothing....So could somebody please give me an Idea of how to get in...

Thansk


Tim

Help:

Why can't I turn on 3D Y/C filter? Do most of you have N/R on?

Thanks,


I'm having the same problem also...Suggestions or comments appreciated..lol..

Thansk again Tim :)

From my experience you can only use 3D Y/C filter if the cable is hooked directly into the TV. I have a Motorola 6412 DVR hooked up via component and cannot use the
3D Y/C filter. When i bypassed the set top box i could. So my conclusion is you cannot
use 3D Y/C filter when using component hookup.

If someone has another theory I'd love to hear it.

fuzman, treeroot,

The 3D-Y/C Filter is one of a number of filters used to separate colour from black and white in a regular television signal. The option to turn it on only appears when you are using the RF cable or a composite video (Yellow RCA) connection because in those types of connections the luminance (Y) and chrominance (C) signals are blended together.

With component cables the luminance (Y) is carried on one connection and the two others carry the "colour difference" signals, B-Y (Pb) and R-Y (Pr). When they are already separated there is no need for the filter. That is why the component connections are the preferred analog connection.

I think it was fuzman who asked about the instructions to get into the service menu. The shortcut is:

Press "Vol" (-) on the front of the TV (not the remote) and press "Recall" on the remote simultaneously for at least 3 seconds.

While the "CHK" is displayed on the left top corner of the screen, press "TV/Video" and "Vol" (+) on (both buttons are on the TV set) simultaneously to toggle between "AGING MODE" and "SERVICE MODE". The "CHK" will appear in red for service mode and in yellow for aging mode.

I am not sure how to read the results in AGING MODE but from what I've heard the first number is the number of times you have turned the TV on. The second number might then be the hours on the bulb. I am not sure because I always shoot right past that into service mode to make adjustments.

To exit service mode you can just shut off the TV or press "Vol" (-) on TV and "OK" on the remote simultaneously for 2 seconds. The set will shut off for a moment and then come back on. Any programmed channels, channel caption data and some other user defined settings will be erased as this procedure resets the TV.

I hope that helps you guys out a bit.

Mike

Hey All, a final note to some of the problems i was having with the set. I had a huge problem with red push. Well it turned out to be two seperate issues.

1: I'm using a panny s97 which still has a few problems with pink tint in the grays especially when upscaling. To solve this problem i change the colorspace settings to RGB rather than 4:4:4. this helps quite a bit. If i still have a bit of a problem (and this only seems to happen in anime sources not normal movies) then i'll only send out a 480p signal, not 720p. 480p is a touch softer than 720p but its not noticeble in most pictures.

2: The second and more significant adjustment was made in the service menu. the value for Y-OS controls the amount of red vs green in the picture and it is different from the tint control outside of the service menu. I found mine to be SIGNIFICANTLY off, on all inputs and resolutions, by what seemed like 50-75 units.

afte working with these values along with my handy copy of DVE, i was able to make significant gains. I am still tweaking the picture, but if anyone is interested i can post the new values.

Overall i am now extremely happy with the picture, and if it wasn't for the fan noise i would have no complaints.

Craig

Any News?

If it fixed the problem i will call in...

Thanks


I was waiting a few weeks to insure that the fix was working.

So far, so good. :) No "random black outs". The local authorized service guys replaced the chassis under warranty (basically everything but the screen and the cabinet). They delivered it back to me on 6/28 and it's been running without a hitch since. The part took about 6-8 weeks to arrive from Panasonic.

Thanks for the update on your red push.

You say that Y-OS controls the amount of red vs green in the picture. Do you know what the other items mean. I have the service manual and it doesn't say anything about the Y-G, PR-G, PB-G, Y-OS, PR-OS or PB-OS and how they are adjusted. I had a look at them but was hesitant to make any adjustments because, if I recall correctly, the values where changing while I was looking at them. The message I got from that was don't touch if you don't know what you are doing because I couldn't even write down the existing value before I adjusted it.

How did you do it?

Mike

Hey Mike, sorry i made a slight error. its not Y-os that made a big difference ( i was at work so i didn't have my paperwork with me) it is PR-OS. i moved that one down quite a few notches. it seems to control red\green intensity.

If you look as you are working in the service menu, there is a moving display. don't worry about that one. underneath that one you should see a long range of numbers that are static. typically there are a total of 4 hex numbers (eg 00 8a 00 bb)

when you go to make an adjustment the last two sets of numbers will move. these are the ones to worry about. In some cases there will only be 1 hex number. it will be fairly obvious once you look at it.

Also in the service menu while adjusting one of the HD resolutions (720p and 1080i) you will have access to adjustments for B-Y_G and R-Y_A and Tint. I was able to make some modifications to these settings, as they all make adjustments to blue intensity, red intensity and tint respectively.

These adjustments are specific for each resolution, however they are effective for all digital connections simultaneously. Example: You make the adjustments at 720p using your HDMI connected panny s97, they will be effective for your component 1,2 and 3 connections. But you will have to program the settings again for 1080i.

Also, the Tint control here is seperate from the tint control in the regular menu.
After much toying around i found the best values to be:

23 for color
34 for B-Y_G
83 for TINT
82 for R-Y_A

for PR-OS i went with a value of 01 F4.

using these values and calibrating with DVE i found that i ended up with values close to what TOPP Robertson suggested in my basic picture settings menu.

27 for tint
31 for brightness
60 for picture

i had a preference for a little extra sharpness so I set that one to 10. I also wanted a bit less color so mine is set at 14.

and just like TOPPs calibration, my green decoder has an error, but my red decoder is close to perfect.

If possible if you don't already have one, grab a copy of DVE from best buy or amazon etc. its worth the 30 bucks. it helped alot with my adjustments.

I still have a service tech coming in on saturday to see what they can do about the fan noise. i'll also ask them to look at the set to see if anything else can be done to help get those decoders closer to perfect.

Craig

Thanks Craig,

I'll go over that with Michael TLV when he comes out to ISF my set on the 19th.

Mike :)

Here's an update on my set:

I recently purchased an external scaler, which has a DVI output that I'm feeding into the Panasonic's HDMI input. I was hoping that by bypassing the set's internal scaler I could finally eliminate the banding in my set.

The good news is that the scaler has improved the picture on my s-video and composite inputs (the improvements on the component inputs is not as dramatic). In fact, the picture from my Dish receiver looks much better, excluding the digital artifacts that the scaler can't control.

The bad news is that it didn't have any effect on the banding effect at all. While I wasn't sure that it would help, I was hoping that the problem was the digital to analog processor, and feeding the set a digital signal would reduce or eliminate the problem.

So, I'm trying to figure out if my set is defective, or if this is just a shortcoming of the DLP chip itself. The effect was not as noticeable on my old X-1 DLP projector, but it's contrast can't compare to what the Panasonic can provide.

I've attached a couple of pictures that show just how noticeable the problem is. They're both near the beginning of the Sky Captain DVD, and the effect was really distracting throughout the movie. In the Gwyneth photo you can clearly see the banding on her left cheek stretching from her eye to her chin. On the book picture, it extends diagonally across the top of the picture. While it's evident in the still pictures I posted, it is even more obvious when they're moving, as the banding slides across the objects affected. You know that it's bad when even the wife makes mention of it.

Mike and Craig, I'd really be curious to know if your problems are as severe as mine, and if they're corrected after either an ISF calibration or a service tech adjustment. I need to know if this is something I've got to live with, or if it can be adjusted or fixed.

Scott

I think some banding is inherent in DLP displays. I have both the 61" DLP (HLN) and the 50" Panasonic DLP. The banding seems less on the Panasonic possibly due to a faster color wheel and more color segments in the wheel (Samsung has 6 to the Panasonic 8).

Thanks for the update Scott,

I recently saw Sky Captain for the first time and I also noticed the banding was worse in that film than in others I had seen recently. I was hoping that it was because it was completely computer generated. And having never seen it in the theatre I had nothing to compare it to.

My awareness of these issues has risen to the point that I swear I see macroblocking and banding on my 27" RCA CRT in the bedroom. Before I dropped cable for satellite, and before I discovered AVSForum I was still using mom's advice to sit back from the TV or it will wreck your eyes. Now, on advice from different sources in this forum I use the general guideline of 2 times the screen width as a suitable viewing distance. Now I see those problems in all sorts of shows and I have to wonder how much is in the source.

Anyhow I managed to tag on to Michael TLV's ISF road trip and on the 19th of August he will be here to fix me up. I'm sure that it will be an enlightening experience and I will share all the findings after its done.

Mike

Hey Scott,

After extensive tweaking and adjusting and calibrating in the service menu with the aid of DVE, i've gotten pretty happy with the picture.

The banding i found to be almost non existant on film and tv material. i still see it (although very slightly) with animated and computer generated material. (japanese anime and pixar animated movies for example).

However it is so slight that i can't even complain about it. after trolling through this thread and doing some research, i came to understand that the banding is highlighted when your color calibration is not up to spec. you can do a lot of tweaking of this yourself with patience.

I hope you have luck getting that picture fixed, it actually sounds worse than mine ever was though, i usually only saw it in bright lights etc on film material.

Craig

Here's an update on my set:

So, I'm trying to figure out if my set is defective, or if this is just a shortcoming of the DLP chip itself. The effect was not as noticeable on my old X-1 DLP projector, but it's contrast can't compare to what the Panasonic can provide.

....

Mike and Craig, I'd really be curious to know if your problems are as severe as mine, and if they're corrected after either an ISF calibration or a service tech adjustment. I need to know if this is something I've got to live with, or if it can be adjusted or fixed.

Scott

I am really interested in the same thing - is this type of banding preventable or not?. I still haven't called a service tech to look at my 50DL54, partly because I just have a ton of other stuff (i.e. work and family) going on right now, and partly because a big part of me thinks this is just inherent in the technology. That, and the banding only rears its head every once and a while - so I can definitely enjoy the set a large percentage of the time. Scott - or anyone else - any idea of a reliable ISF calibrator in the Wisconsin/Minnesota/Illinois area who could help us out?

Ben

Banding seems related to the color wheel, any speed issues will show more banding. Also, contrast and brightness settings.

I've used/tested 3 of the Panny DLPs, still convinced they have the best image in there class.

The 1st was a floor model, had MAJOR banding and bloching seen in normal viewing, serviceman said he would need to replace color wheel related parts. I opted to return the set.

Replaced it with a new one, loved the image. It had minor banding in gradient tests, but not visible watching TV. Problem was the FAN was SO LOUD and Panasonic acknowledge the issue, but stated they can not quiet it. I decided to return it hoping 2006 models would solve the FAN issue.

Recently , someone I know picked up the 50" model at clearance prices (wow they are getting cheap), anyhow, it looks great, but the fan is loud too. The user does not seem concerned about it. Similar banding on gradient test only.

So I think all the DLPs have the issue to some degree.

My awareness of these issues has risen to the point that I swear I see macroblocking and banding on my 27" RCA CRT in the bedroom. Before I dropped cable for satellite, and before I discovered AVSForum I was still using mom's advice to sit back from the TV or it will wreck your eyes. Now, on advice from different sources in this forum I use the general guideline of 2 times the screen width as a suitable viewing distance. Now I see those problems in all sorts of shows and I have to wonder how much is in the source.
I do agree that a lot of this is due to the source material. I have a real hard time watching most Dish Network programing right now (although the new scaler does help). I think the DLP magnifies whatever compression problems are already present in the signal.

Anyhow I managed to tag on to Michael TLV's ISF road trip and on the 19th of August he will be here to fix me up. I'm sure that it will be an enlightening experience and I will share all the findings after its done.
I'll really be interested to see what improvements are made after calibration (take good notes, please).

Scott

After extensive tweaking and adjusting and calibrating in the service menu with the aid of DVE, i've gotten pretty happy with the picture.

The banding i found to be almost non existant on film and tv material. i still see it (although very slightly) with animated and computer generated material. (japanese anime and pixar animated movies for example).

However it is so slight that i can't even complain about it. after trolling through this thread and doing some research, i came to understand that the banding is highlighted when your color calibration is not up to spec. you can do a lot of tweaking of this yourself with patience.
I have used DVE to fine tune the settings through the regular menu settings, and the colors look quite good. The last time I was in the service menu I made wide-ranging adjustments to all of the color settings, but none of them had any effect on the banding I was seeing.

Scott

I still haven't called a service tech to look at my 50DL54, partly because I just have a ton of other stuff (i.e. work and family) going on right now, and partly because a big part of me thinks this is just inherent in the technology.That's a good summary of how I feel, too. If I knew it could be fixed or even significantly reduced, I would be on the phone with Panasonic tonight.

Scott - or anyone else - any idea of a reliable ISF calibrator in the Wisconsin/Minnesota/Illinois area who could help us out?Some of the guys on the Milwaukee HDTV forum set up a visit from fellow AVS member Eliab this past June, but that may have been to far away to help you. You can read about it here:

Eliab's Tour (http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4985)

I don't know of anyone in the area, and I couldn't justify spending the money on a calibration if it wouldn't eliminate the banding (I'm pretty cheap).

Scott

Banding is related to the color wheel, any speed issues will show more banding. I've used/tested 3 of the Panny DLPs, still convinced they have the best image in there class. So I think all the DLPs have the issue to some degree.
That's my biggest fear. I have gone from a huge supporter of DLP (when I first bought my Infocus X1), and being convinced that the Panny was the best set out there, to now being dissatisfied with my purchase.

When I first got it, the only complaint I had was the fan noise. I eventually got used to that, and although I saw rainbows, they never bothered me that much.

But my awareness of the banding issue has really become a major distraction for me. So much so, that I can no longer recommend this set. I still love the detail of the picture, the vibrant colors, and the blacks (although only dark, dark gray) are acceptable. But that dang banding is so ugly my eyes are always drawn to it.

That's why I'm hoping that mine is defective. Otherwise I'm just going to have to live with it for the next four and a half years (the end of the extended warranty).

Scott

That's my biggest fear. ...

That's why I'm hoping that mine is defective. Otherwise I'm just going to have to live with it for the next four and a half years (the end of the extended warranty).

Scott

Good luck, I've found a repair tech not very helpful. I put up a gradient test, that clearly showed banding, and was told that's the way they are, "within spec". I raised the fan issue...within spec. I asked him to tweak the focus, told...its actually quite good.




I agree with you, DLP has a nice picture, but its far from perfect. Rear projection of any type will disppear soon I think. Take look at the new Panasonic Plasma TH42PX500 , that thing is nice. Really a new generation of plasma. But the Panny DLP continues to impress me, when watching HD baseball. With outdoor bright pictures the image is great.

Hey JackLT,

Thanks for the link to those frames. I would try it straight away but my kid is on a video game marathon. I did run them on my 19" Dell UltraSharp LCD monitor and I will compare the two later. My monitor can toggle between 6500K and 9300K so I can sort of use it as a comparator.

Scott,

I am pretty sure you can overcome this. The set is designed to do 1024 shades of gray and there are 1280 pixels from left to right so there are 256 extra pixels to spread out (about 1 extra pixel for every four in the 1024 shades). The tech guys at Panasonic say that they use a 10 bit color process so they can produce 1024 shades of each of three colors for a total of over a billion. If the source is only doing 8 bit processing then you get only 256 shades, or in 9 bit 512 shades.

We'll get this figured out.

Gotta go...

Mike

Good luck, I've found a repair tech not very helpful. I put up a gradient test, that clearly showed banding, and was told that's the way they are, "within spec". I raised the fan issue...within spec. I asked him to tweak the focus, told...its actually quite good.That's an interesting response. I wonder what the "spec" is for banding and how it's measured. It also makes me wonder how dependent one is an individual repair guy, or if it's an actual corporate policy.

If you have a PC hooked up with via HDMI here's a simple app to test the set. Try the gradient tests. Post a picture if you can of the 50% test results. . .Hooking up my PC via HDMI is not easily done, but I have been trying to get my laptop's VGA out to work with the set's component input with a transcoder. So far, the results have been erratic and disappointing, but I'll keep trying.
I agree with you, DLP has a nice picture, but its far from perfect. Rear projection of any type will disppear soon I think. Take look at the new Panasonic Plasma TH42PX500 , that thing is nice. Really a new generation of plasma.I've never cared for the look of plasma, or LCD rear projection, or D-ILA, or CRT rear projection. It was DLP that won me over and convinced me it was time to spend some hefty bucks on an HDTV upgrade.

The Panny will last another four to five years, and then it'll be time to look at new options. I'm hoping that by then all of the technologies will have improved to the point where there's a remarkable difference in quality. Plus, there's the advent of carbon nanotube sets, Sony's SXRD, and who knows what else.

Scott

I think most on AVS, care more about image quality than the techs.

I mean how many calls do they get where someone puts up a PC generated 720p gradient image and points out whats lacking...

With the test you really need to use 720p over HDMI as it offers 1:1 pixel mapping, then what you see is a result of the set and not analog-digital conversion.

Just finished watching a baseball game on the DLP, the image was great., dont think your next 4 years will be too bad.

Michael TLV came by today and spent 2.5 hours at my house with my PT-60DL54.

It was nice to have someone who has seen many makes and models of TV sets in my home to talk to. After reading AVS for awhile one can get a little paranoid so it is good to sit and talk to someone face to face. For that reason alone it is worth having a professional calibration in my opinion.

I was late getting home but living in a small town I just left a note on the door telling him to go in and get set up. When I arrived he was deciding between 720p and 1080i on my Panny S97 for his calibration DVDs. We went with 720p because it seemed to be the clearest and sharpest source. A few minutes were spent adjusting the S97's brightness to allow it to show the blacker and whiter parts of the picture (whiter than white, blacker than black). He said that the S97 doesn't pass these through "out of the box". While looking at the DVE grey ramp I asked if the pattern was displaying the way it was supposed to. On my set, after making color wheel index adjustments, it looked pretty good but still had some "banding". By "banding" I mean that every centimeter or so it looked like the set couldn't decide whether it wanted a lighter or darker shade of grey than the previous one. Michael said that it was one of the limitations of DLP that he has seen, but that it wasn't as bad as Toshiba/LG (to the best of my recollection) and last year's Samsung. Toshiba apparently had lots of green showing in the grey ramp but this year they have fixed it.

He then proceded to make a number of pre-calibration measurements with his colormeter to form a baseline for his report. Then he set the picture controls to cinema and "centered" the color, tint, brightness and picture controls (31). Sharpness was set to 10 and Color Temp to WARM.

He then entered the service menu and using the DVE Pro DVD adjusted the color decoding with the BYG RYG and set the COLOR TINT and BRIGHT as well as HPOS and VPOS.

He next went to White Balance (WB) expecting to be able to make a number of adjustments to the color temperature but found that the ability to adjust the grey scale of this model is limited.

The color decoder in the set doesn't allow one to independently adjust the "cuts and drivers" or "cuts and gains" (sorry, can't recall the proper terminology as I type this entry, but you all likely know what I mean) so you have to adjust for the red and compromise on the other colors. I asked about other DLPs that would allow this type of adjustment and he mentioned that this year Toshiba has fixed the green tint to the grey scale and also allows adjustment to the cuts and drives.

In the advanced settings in the service menu there are settings to adjust the color decoding for the component inputs but we elected not to do this because the Panny S97 won't upconvert through component and I wanted to keep the upconversion operating.

He ran through the White Balance settings and tested the factory default 00, against 01, 02 and 03. While some characteristics of 02 were better, like grey scale tracking and gamma, he suggested that the factory default was best because the "delta e", the distance that each color was in the color decoder from the STMPE standards, was less at the default setting than it was in the others and apparently that is the most important factor. Much of it has to do with red being more noticeable than blue when adjusting the color decoder.

Later we talked about LCD vs DLP and why I chose the DLP vs the LCD. Of course each has its pros and cons. He has a BenQ DLP front projector, a Toshiba DLP rear projector and a new Samsung Plasma and tends to go through new sets every two years or so just to keep up with or play around with what is out there. From his point of view an entry level Sony LCD gives good tweekability as a starter set for most peoples home theater needs.

A nice touch was that he left me with two sample DVDs. One is like a custom HQV Benchmark disc to test various aspects of the set in a non-test pattern, real life setting. The other is meant to show off your set when you have friends over. I thought that was pretty cool.

All in all it was an interesting evening and a good education.

Mike

Michael TLV came by today and spent 2.5 hours at my house with my PT-60DL54.
....
From his point of view an entry level Sony LCD gives good tweekability as a starter set for most peoples home theater needs.
....
All in all it was an interesting evening and a good education.

Mike

Thanks, is the picture improved, in what ways?
Was he able to adjust the focus or tilt?
How about banding using a gradient pattern?

Banding is the biggest issue I see the the Pana DLP.

Sorry about the lack of a discription on the improvements to the picture. I did the best I could be we were headed out the door for holidays and wife was suggesting it would be better for my long term health if I stayed off of the computer. She wouldn't even let me take my laptop with me.

I have secretly accessed my brother in law's computer but only have a few minutes before they notice I'm missing.

Briefly, for now until I return...

Picture is improved but I haven't had time to run some of my reference DVDs to see if some of the nagging issues are gone.

Big changes were made to my DVD player (s97) settings. Contrast went from 0 to -4 and Brightness from 0 to +3. This seriously improved the gray ramp (DVE chpt 14?). I thought I had it set properly but apparently what I thought was right was a shortened spectrum. That is to say that while I didn't think I was getting "white or black crush" I was crushing the whole signal evenly.

Focus and tilt were never an issue for me. If it needed doing though I have the instructions in the service manual.

The banding on the gradient pattern is "minimal". Michael said it was one of the best post calibration results he had seen in that area from a DLP. Apparently it just wont' get as smooth as it would on a CRT or some LCDs. My gradient pattern has no traces of colours other than gray which is a big improvement from how it came out of the box.

I wish I could take a proper picture but it is difficult to do with the camera I have. Maybe I should try a good old film camera and then scan in the resulting image.

Anyhow I better go before I am missed.

Mike

Hi all,

I'm having an annoying problem and I'm hoping someone here my have some answers.

My equipment: Panny 50" DLP & TS360 connected via a DVI to HDMI Blue Jeans cable

Problem: About 10 minutes after powering everything up, the screen gets covered with red "staticy" lines which run across the entire width of the screen, even when watching std def programming. If I toggle the power to the TS360 the problem goes away, usually to return in just a few minutes. After many minutes the red lines for the most part go away. This happens most times we watch the set, but not always.

The DVI/HDMI cable is my second. A friend will be lending me his upscaling DVD player so I can test a second source of DVI.

Watching via component cable does not exhibit this problem.

Any ideas?

My gradient pattern has no traces of colours other than gray which is a big improvement from how it came out of the box.



That is good news - thanks for the update. I'm becoming increasingly interested in ISF calibration now....

Ben

ARGHH!!

After a very short 2 months and 1 week of enjoyment/frustration,
The bulb has blown on my beloved set!!!!

I'll be calling Panasonic tomorrow for a replacement. It annoys me to think that i might this might happen again however. i've got the set on a surge protector, but i think it might not be enough. i think the A/C kicking on and off is playing havoc with the power supply throughout the house, including the TV.

ARGHH!!

After a very short 2 months and 1 week of enjoyment/frustration,
The bulb has blown on my beloved set!!!!

I'll be calling Panasonic tomorrow for a replacement. It annoys me to think that i might this might happen again however. i've got the set on a surge protector, but i think it might not be enough. i think the A/C kicking on and off is playing havoc with the power supply throughout the house, including the TV.

Spend a few bucks on a UPS. It's been recommended here.

Could I get an update on the OLD FAN NOISE issue, has everyone given up, like I have?

I think we've all given up on the fan noise issue. I couple of folks in Canada have had the factory modification kit installed, but they all reported that it did not help the situation.

I had a service tech. check out my set. By unscrewing the main bottom fan mounting screw, he was able to reduce some of the resonance by about 50%.
Still noisy in my opinion.

It took about 6 weeks for Panasonic to ship the replacement chassis to the local service center. During that time my set probably blacked out 3 times total, all corrected with the power cycle. They finally came last Tuesday to pick up my set and haul it off to the shop for fixing. I get it back tomorrow and hopefully, no more blackouts. Since it only happens every couple weeks, I won't be sure that it's really fixed for a couple months. I hope it's fixed for good -- the whole repair loop is truly annoying and inconvenient.

Stay tuned ...


I have not posted in a few months... but on the RANDOM BLACK OUT issue, they took my TV to a repari shop for almost a month waiting for the right part to come in. I got the TV black about 3-4 weeks ago and it has been rock solid ever since. Will it last? I don't know. But I've had this TV 6 months now and it's finally working like it should've from day one.

Happy Ending (for now).

I know that several of us have had problems with banding with the Panny DLPs. I also have the S97 so I monitor the S97 brain dump and firmware threads as well. On another members advice I set my S97 to a different TV type (from Projection TV to Direct View CRT) and set the picture settings to "Normal" (as opposed to Cinema 1 or Cinema 2 or any User settings).

Well holy crap! The banding is gone! I know that some of you have tried Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow and found the banding to be very severe due to the computer generated nature and the retro look they were going for. Well now everyones faces look natural with no signs of posturization or banding.

I had problems with the rolling fog at the end of Chptr 11 of The Village and now it looks good too.

The best part is that I was actually able to set up a before and after comparison for my wife so she could see what the hell I was always complaining about. She agrees that it looks way better now.

I don't know exactly why it is working better but its almost as though the DVD player and the TV have come to some sort of agreement to make me feel better.

It probably has more to do with a digital video signal encoded on a DVD which has values of 0 to 255 but using Studio RGB standards they set black at 16 and reference white at 235. If you set up your contrast and brightness incorrectly you end up stretching the 219 values inbetween those two reference points and your video processor has to make up its own values to fill in the gaps.

Anyhow, if you have the same combo as me then give it a try. You might like the results.

Mike :)

Need some help here guys

For those of you that have had your set professionally calibrated... Did the gain have to be adjusted as if so did it actually do something?

I had my set replaced several weeks ago & had the new one recalibrated. The colour Temp is spot on till we hit 40 Ire & then quickly went up and flattened out @ about 7400 (70 Ire)...

The big question is are we doing something wrong?

I have attempted to contact panasonic but got the run around...I will be speaking with my salesman on Thursday who will get me in contact with their rep...

Thanks Tim

fuzman,

My calibrator didn't touch the gain controls as he thought that they were only used for component connections and if I wanted to use the upscaling on my DVD player I couldn't use component. He tried adjusting the white balance to adjust the colour temperature but ended up putting it back at the default of 0.

I haven't received the pdf's of my pre and post calibration reports yet so I can't remember what the result was but it wasn't over 6800 or so.

Have you tried emailing Panasonic's tech guys with a question. I have never asked about the controls in the service menu but they should be able to tell you what all of those abreviations stand for.

Another member called bigc_2k3 did some adjusting on his internal service menu and had some success. It is back a page or so.

Mike

Hey All, a final note to some of the problems i was having with the set. I had a huge problem with red push. Well it turned out to be two seperate issues.

1: I'm using a panny s97 which still has a few problems with pink tint in the grays especially when upscaling. To solve this problem i change the colorspace settings to RGB rather than 4:4:4. this helps quite a bit. If i still have a bit of a problem (and this only seems to happen in anime sources not normal movies) then i'll only send out a 480p signal, not 720p. 480p is a touch softer than 720p but its not noticeble in most pictures.

2: The second and more significant adjustment was made in the service menu. the value for Y-OS controls the amount of red vs green in the picture and it is different from the tint control outside of the service menu. I found mine to be SIGNIFICANTLY off, on all inputs and resolutions, by what seemed like 50-75 units.

afte working with these values along with my handy copy of DVE, i was able to make significant gains. I am still tweaking the picture, but if anyone is interested i can post the new values.

Overall i am now extremely happy with the picture, and if it wasn't for the fan noise i would have no complaints.

Craig


Craig

Could you post your new values?...

We tried for several hours to get the Blue push below 17% or so & were unable to do it...It just wouldn't move...

I'm still not real certian how a blue push creates a red push on the screen but that seems to be what it's doing...

Thanks Tim

Pansonic web site now has listing for the new 56" and 61" 720p DLPs...
http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelList?storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&catGroupId=24975&cacheProgram=11002&cachePartner=7000000000000005702
Unfortunately there is insufficient info available to determine which chip they use.
MSRP seems a bit high for a 720p DLP.
Somehow I am just not as excited as I would have been a few months ago. Maybe it is because everybody else is moving forward with 1080p models. :rolleyes:

Hi all,

I bought this set a few months ago and for the most part, I'm very happy with it.

This my abe a stupid question:

I finally set my HT up using my Mitsubishi DD6000 DVD player. I used the Prog. scan out on the DVD and in on the TV. When I play wide screen movies, I get two fairly large black bars on top and bottom, just as if I was still watching my 4:3 set. Shouldn't widescreen movies take up most if not all of the screen?

Thanks,
Ian

I'm willing to bet your original TV was a 4:3
Your DVD player thinks your TV still is.
You'll have to go into your DVD "SETUP" menu (or equivalent) and change your "TV" to Widescreen so it knows. There's noother way

J

Hey, guys....I haven't checked in for a while, but I'm still enjoying this *GREAT* TV, and, at the risk of jinxing myself, I've had the set for about 7 months now and no bulb problems. I'd be interested in hearing others experiences with the bulb.

I had the chance to see the Qualia last week, and while it is spectacular, it is only slightly better than the Panny DLP. The Panny DLP is/was a much better buy for the $$$$.

I'm on six months amd still enjoying mine too.

It's been nine months for me, with the original bulb.

Scott

My 50dl54 will hit one year this weekend. TV is used to some extent almost every day (the only truly functional one in the house). Still using the original bulb.

Ben

Pansonic web site now has listing for the new 56" and 61" 720p DLPs...

Unfortunately there is insufficient info available to determine which chip they use.
MSRP seems a bit high for a 720p DLP.

Has anyone heard any early buzz on these sets? I'm interested in possibly getting the 61" version, but am not sure if it's worth the extra money over the 61" LCD Projection Panny...

I'm willing to bet your original TV was a 4:3
Your DVD player thinks your TV still is.
You'll have to go into your DVD "SETUP" menu (or equivalent) and change your "TV" to Widescreen so it knows. There's noother way

J


Boy do I feel like an idiot! I completely forgot about the DVD Setup.
That was it. Works fine now.

Thanks.
Ian

I got to see the manual for the new Panasonic DLP sets at Best Buy last night, and I noticed that it said there is an 18-month warranty on the bulb. Is it true that the 50" only had a 12-month warranty period? That's comforting news, as I just ordered one of these new sets and was a little concerned about some of the bulb issues I had read.

PANASONIC INTRODUCES HD MULTIMEDIA DISPLAYS
WITH DIGITAL LIGHT PROCESSING TECHNOLOGY

New CableCARD-Ready™ Sets Feature Integrated ATSC/QAM/NTSC Tuners,
HDTV And Native 720p Display, SD / PCMCIA Card Slots

INDIANAPOLIS, IN (September 9, 2005) — Panasonic today announced two new widescreen, high-definition Digital Light Processing™ (DLP™) technology televisions featuring Texas Instruments' 0.8” 720P chip. Models PT-56DLX75 and PT-61DLX75, 56 inches and 61 inches (diagonal screen measurement), respectively, can attain a contrast ratio of up to 2500:1, rendering brilliant whites, deep blacks and crisp, vivid color with stunning clarity. The Panasonic fourth-generation DLP technology sets were delivered in August, 2005.
Designed to deliver the full impact of high-resolution digital images from a multitude of sources, both models feature integrated ATSC/QAM/NTSC tuners, CableCARD1 slot, SD Card and Photo Viewer2, RGB PC inputs and HDMI inputs. The built-in ATSC3 tuner enables reception of Enhanced Definition (EDTV) 480p and High Definition (HDTV) native 720p/1080i signals.
“Panasonic is committed to providing consumers with the most advanced technology as a means to enjoying the expanding variety of digital media,” said Andrew Nelkin, Vice President of Panasonic’s Display Group. “Not only are we fully supporting the FCC digital tuner mandate, but we are also adding the CableCARD feature to all of our ATSC models and incorporating many other enhanced features to ensure consumers’ satisfaction for years to come.”
Other features include:
- Eight-segment color wheel: While some DLP-based monitors use conventional 7-segment color wheels, Panasonic utilizes a symmetrically designed 8-segment configuration, which significantly diminishes color separation artifacts ("rainbow effect"), reduces flicker and minimizes digital noise in dark areas of the picture.
- An HDMI/HDCP interface allows transfer of high-definition video and multi-channel audio over a single cable, which greatly simplifies the connection between a digital television and various CE host devices such as a DVD player or A/V receiver.
- Direct Access Video Input: This feature allows the user to select a video input source directly without toggling through all inputs. When you press the TV/VIDEO button on the remote control, a menu listing all video inputs will appear. You can either scroll through the menu to select an input or simply press the number on the remote corresponding to the desired input.
- Split-Screen display capability
- Optical output for dts and Dolby Digital 5.1-channel surround sound decoders
- RGB PC input and XGA resolution display capability enable the set to serve as an ultra-high resolution PC monitor.

Hi,

It is my first post here.

I just bought a Panny 50DL54 last week and the picture is incredible but I have noticed the color banding (posterization) effect that some of you discussed. It can be pretty bad in some DVD's (some scenes in Finding Nemo when the ugly Light fish is pursuing Nemo's dad and the opening scene of Master and Commander with the fog) running through good component cables in 480i. I also notice it to varying extent on SD channels and from time to time on HD channels on my SA 8300HD box plugged with good component cables and set to always upconvert to 720P (also tried leaving SD in 480i but no change).

From what I have read, this can be caused by bad color-wheel index adjustment, so I went in the service menu and looked at the CW-I setting (default was EF) and I displayed the color gradient charts by using the RECALL button on the TV remote. The red gradient screen was fine, the green had very noticeable banding and the blue was as good as the red. The final grayscale was not that good, color banding was pretty much noticeable. so I played a bit with this setting and found that F3 is the best for my set, but the black to green and black to white screens still show very noticeable banding (I'll try to take pics tonight) and there is nothing I can do to make it better.

Does somebody know if my set would need servicing or if this is normal? I thought that since this set has a 10-bit decoder, this problem would be much less apparent.

Also, when watching 4:3 SD programs, the edges of the picture doesnt seem straight. It is like it is bowing a bit at the top so the image is a little bit narrower at the top of the picture. Is this normal? I shure hope not.

Thanks
Sebastien

DropKick2

When you played with the setting did you do all of the adjustments on the Green Ramp? It seems that the Green Ramp is the one that solves the problem. If you can get it right then you are good to go. I would try that first and then look for other issues.

Mike

Hi Mr Paw,

What are the adjustments that I need to do for the green ramp except changing the CW-I value? I've got the green ramp pretty good but I cannot remove all of the banding from it. I never seem to get it as good as the other two colors.

I've just watched Batman begins tonight and most of the movie was flawless but some scenes were not that good at all.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

Sebastien

I saw Batman Begins the other day on my 50DL54 too and in the fog scenes the banding was real bad. I have not had the nerve to go into the service menu yet though.

DropKick2,

In your message of October 28th you mentioned that programing in 4:3 was narrower at the top of the screen. You can adjust that mechanically by removing the lower front cover and loosening the screws so that you can align the picture to your satisfaction.

Do a search for a thread by videobruce called "whats inside a panny dlp?", or something like that. He posted some of the details of the service manual and I believe that procedure is there.

As far as the Green Ramp goes, if you have it as smooth as you can get it, post a picture and I'll tell you if it is any worse than mine. If you want to take it further you probably could get it fixed under warranty if it is no good. It might be other issues that are causing your problem like the contrast and brightness controls (or brightness and picture, on this set).

As far as the fog in Batman goes it could be your DVD player, the TV, or the DVD transfer (I haven't seen the movie at home so I couldn't tell you either way). I do know that with my Panny S97 fog at night looked bad in the movie "the Village" until I made some adjustments to the player. Now it looks just fine.

I don't know if this is your first big, digital tv, but I find that now that I have digital satilite at home even my old 27" CRT set exhibits some banding and macroblocking when I sit really close to it because it is in the signal. The bigger sets just show it more if it is there.

Anyhow, see if you can post a picture of that Green Ramp.

Mr Paw,

I'm not sure I'm ready to start messing around with the insides of this TV yet. I have a service technician from Panasonic coming in tomorrow for a dead mirror (always off) in the bottom center section of the screen and a stain directly in the center of the screen that seems to be on the inside of the set. It looks like it is in between 2 pixels. I'll ask the tech if he can take a look at the other problems as well at the same time.

As far as digital TV, this is my first set but I lived at my parents place for a few years and they had HD cable with a 65" CRT Hitachi Ultravision. I have never noticed any color banding on that set. I have the same digital cable service at my place. I may need to invest in a new upconvert DVD player, mine is pretty old and basic (JVC S40) and maybe HDMI cables but they seem really expensive.

Anyways, I'll still try to post the green and grey ramps tonight and will keep you posted.

Thanks,

Sebastien

Dropkick

Heres the link that Mr Paw was talking about...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=543508


fuz

Here are the pics of the green and B&W ramps. The B&W is pretty faithfull to what I see but the green is not. On the green ramp, the problem lies in the darker areas and not on the more green areas as shown on the photos.

On the B&W ramp, I do not really see green, red or blue bands, it is just the camera that did that but I do see bands of different grey levels in the darker areas.

Sebastien

Let me start by saying that I hate taking pictures of my TV because I don't do it very well. I thought it would work best without a flash but I don't really know for sure. (If anyone has any tips please share them).

Here is a picture of my Green Ramp. Sadly, it is of little help. As you know from taking your own pictures DropKick2, the camera can add some stuff that you can't see because it sees things differently.

Anyhow, for what it is worth:

Here's a quick update of my situation.

The service tech came to my home yesterday evening and checked everything out. He wasn't to much knowledgeable about this particular model. He didn't even know how to access the service menu, but he knew is way with DLP's in general.

Here are the problems he recoginzed the TV had: 1 burnt pixel (always off) at the bottom of the screen, 1 dust particle sandwiched between the layers of the screen right in the middle of it, image 1" thinner at the top than at the bottom and bad greyscale (coming from his sencore 300 in component). The grayscale had very noticeable banding at about every 3/8" and there was red and green showing up in the grayscale. He's going to send his report to the store where I bought my set and I should have a new one by tonight or tomorrow.

He also said that for most buyers, this unit would be fine but for those looking a bit more into details (like me) it had a lot of defects.

I hop this new set is going to be much better, otherwise I might end up going with another technology than DLP even if I like it's brightness and PQ the most. The banding is just to much for me.

Mr Paw, would you mind sharing your service menu and user menu values with me? Maybe I can use them as a starting point for my TV to try to minimize the color banding problem.

Thanks

Sebastien

I am glad to hear that you are getting a replacement. I will share my settings but please keep in mind that they may not be the same on yours. I have the service manual and it lists a bunch of default values, almost none of which were the same on mine.

Anyhow,

Color = 16
BYG = 39
Tint = 70
RYG = 79
Bright = 08-1E
Cont = 03-30
WB = 00
CW-I = EB

Just remember that your values could/should/may or will vary from mine. Good luck with the new one!

Mike

Hi,

I received the replacement TV yesterday evening and what a difference it makes! WOW! Out of the box, there is almost no banding (barely visible when looking for it) and no dead pixel and no screen stain. The only thing which is not 100% is the picture geometry, it is still bowing a bit on the inside at the top of the picture but it's doing it only half as much as the other set did. I'm going to leave it as it is for now and see if it bothers me.

I went in the service menu and looked at the ramps from the CW-I menu and the green looks noticeably better, the blue is perfect, the red is not as good as on the other set but it is still pretty good and the white ramp is almost flawless. I have not tried DVE to see its ramp pattern but I will try that this weekend.

By the way, thanks for your settings Mr Paw, I will take note of the defaults on my set and then I might do some adjustments if I can find the time next week.

Sebastien

I've had this set for over a year and I finally put in a LB DVD and cannot adjust my LG DV78332NXCDVD player (component 2 input) to prevent the stretch. I can only stretch it vertically to keep the original aspect ratio.

I'm looking at P. 13 of my manual and trying to determine if the ASPECT button can be used. Is the signal from a DVD player 720p, if so, then there are no options to prevent the default stretch? My DVD player also does upconversion.

Can anyone shed some light on this?

BTW, the fan noise seems louder now than when I first got my set.

TIA

I was lucky enought to get Randy Tomlinson out to my house the other day, to perform an ISF calibration on my 50dl54.

The reason I went to a color profressional, is that the local service here in Chapel Hill was baffled by the problem I was seeing: color banding (red and green) in shadows and fog. The dealer offered to replace the chassis(!?!) but I was convinced this could be adjusted out.

After a few hours, Randy got the Panny tuned perfect, the picture was beautiful before, has now become stunning. I love this set.

However, the banding is still there. Randy was able to pull up a grey ramp, with aprox 10 grey bars from white to black. There were two shades of grey specificly, that also showed color (guess what colors?) Green and Red, respectivly. These were in very dark grey region, but tints were consistantly visible.

This is most visible in B&W movies, in areas of fog. Even turning the color all the way down via the user menu, does not address this problem. Since there was no way to adust the color out of the grey ramp, I guess I'm stuck with it. Obviously, this manifests itself in any dimly-lit scene, even in color.

Randy had difficulty (it seemed to me) because Panny's color adustments via the service menu, are not straight forward (red/green/blue/brightness/contrast) but are a mix and blend of colors and tints. I have no idea how he got the color as good as he did, but dispite Panasonic's best efforts, Randy nail'ed 'em.
(Good enough for my eyes, anyway)

I'd like to hear from youse guys, if you turn down your color setting via the user menu, to zero, do you see red and green in the low-contrast scenes? Fog? fleshtones in shadow? If I'm the only one, I'll talk to the dealer again.

By the way, I highly recommend Randy. I found myself re-watching DVDs again, just to see them in this new light. I actually ENJOYED StarWars Episode III (once you FF past the dialog, that is)

Randy's information can be found at www.advancedtechservice.com

Pete

I'd like to hear from youse guys, if you turn down your color setting via the user menu, to zero, do you see red and green in the low-contrast scenes? Fog? fleshtones in shadow? If I'm the only one, I'll talk to the dealer again.
I see the same problem, even with color turned all the way down. That's my single biggest complaint about this set (somehow I've managed to get used to the fan noise).

I, too, would like to hear from other owners. My manufacturer's warranty is going to be running out soon. If there's any chance that what we are seeing is a defect in the set, I'd like to have it fixed now.

If it's just a technological limitation, I guess I'll have to live with it for the next four years until I can upgrade (minimum amount of time as required by wife's decree).

Scott

I haven't read this forum for a while, and I always thought the banding I was seeing was either just typical of the DLP technology, or I had a defective set, but I figured I could live with this defect, since it only happened in dark scenes with bright lights, or on flesh tones. After reading several of these posts, I've realized that it seems to be a common problem with this set. I decided to try some of the things you guys have suggested. I played with the WB setting, putting it back to 0. That really didn't do anything. What I did notice was that putting the TV in Vivid mode mostly eliminated the banding. haven't had time to figure out why

I decided to try some of the things you guys have suggested. I played with the WB setting, putting it back to 0. That really didn't do anything. What I did notice was that putting the TV in Vivid mode mostly eliminated the banding. haven't had time to figure out why

So, Are you saying that you put the set into VIVID, and turned the color all the way down, and the effect (colors in B&W scenes) was gone?

I'll try this myself tonight. Thanks,

Pete

The color bleed into greyscale issue is not addressed by mode settings. (cinema, normal or vivid). Sorry.

Has anyone bought the new models?

Sound Advice/Tweeter used to stock last years model, but I don't think they carry this years.

Just wondering.

The color bleed into greyscale issue is not addressed by mode settings. (cinema, normal or vivid). Sorry.

Yes, it eliminated it for me in the scene that I was testing against. Perhaps its because the set is much brighter so you don't notice it as much. In general, it does not really eliminate it, its still there.

I've had this set for over a year and I finally put in a LB DVD and cannot adjust my LG DV78332NXCDVD player (component 2 input) to prevent the stretch. I can only stretch it vertically to keep the original aspect ratio.

I'm looking at P. 13 of my manual and trying to determine if the ASPECT button can be used. Is the signal from a DVD player 720p, if so, then there are no options to prevent the default stretch? My DVD player also does upconversion.

Can anyone shed some light on this?

BTW, the fan noise seems louder now than when I first got my set.

TIA


Is your DVD player set to 16:9?

Has anyone bought the new models?

Sound Advice/Tweeter used to stock last years model, but I don't think they carry this years.

Just wondering.

Magnolia Hi-Fi carries them (located in Best Buy)

All you veteran Microdisplay owners, please vote on lamp life here;

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=629175

Hello,

I have a chance to buy a Panasonic at about 40% discount, and 60" sets worth looking at? Any compare to Sony Wega SXRD?

THanks

Hello,

I have a chance to buy a Panasonic at about 40% discount, and 60" sets worth looking at? Any compare to Sony Wega SXRD?

THanks

I purchased a 61 inch DLP recently with the discount and looking forward to getting it in a few days. I checked out the tv at Magnolia Hi fi located at Best Buy and it has a great picture. The 1080p dlp's has a slightly better picture, but definately not worth the extra money you have to pay for one. With the 2 HDMI inputs, 3 component, and pc input in the front, it's a great value.

I have had this TV for about a year and I have noticed since day one that the reds are very pixelated when watching HD cable channels. I haven't noticed it watching DVDs.

Is there any adjustment that can be made to help the "noise" that I get when there are reds on the screen? I used the DVE disk to calibrate a while back.

Any thoughts?

Steve T

Could someone tell me how to check the usage hours of the buld inside the PT50DL54. Contacted Panasonic Canada but they are useless, saying something like you will know it once you replace the buld. Why they dont tell their customers regarding to a simple reasonable question I dont understand.

I have the option to purchase an HLR5064W (HD3 chip) or the PT50DL54 for $2150CDN + tax, which set would you choose. Reading through this thread has helped me a bit but im concerned I will NEED to have it properly calibrated to get a good picture. I saw both sets side by side at a local A/V store and teh Panasonic looked 100times better than the Samsung which looked dull for some reason. The only downside is the Panny is floor model and the Samsung is brand new in box.

I would go for the Pannasonic but if it is a demo they should throw in a free bulb since as a demo the TV was on a lot and a new bulb costs over $250 (US).

I would go for the Pannasonic but if it is a demo they should throw in a free bulb since as a demo the TV was on a lot and a new bulb costs over $250 (US).

Yeah I really liked the Panasonic more than the Samsung in store, they were both displaying HD feeds. I doubt ill be able to get a free bulb, im more concerned with the other parts because beeing a demo model puts me closer to getting a free bulb through warranty in the 12 months but would it being on all day harm the color wheel etc too?

Is the panny technically a better tv?

The PT65DLX25 has three sets of component video inputs, but the tech specs label them "HDTV" specifically.... I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this, but standard neophyte lack of confidence makes me ask: Is there a difference between this and the component video ouputs on my old standard television devices, like my TiVo?

The PT65DLX25 has three sets of component video inputs, but the tech specs label them "HDTV" specifically.... I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this, but standard neophyte lack of confidence makes me ask: Is there a difference between this and the component video ouputs on my old standard television devices, like my TiVo?

Yes, you can have component inputs (and outputs) on standard def devices limited to 480i.

It's the same cables that you'd use, but on a HDTV the component inputs will be capable of handling HD resolutions (and they're usually labeled that way as you described).

Any information on the 2006 Panasonic DLP?

Other than this announcement back in January I have not read anything else. It seems as if Panasonic is treating the DLP line as a stepchild.

Panasonic introduces new HD multimedia displays and 1080p display capability
Panasonic today announced two new widescreen, high-definition Digital Light Processing™ (DLP™) technology televisions featuring Texas Instruments' new 1080p DMD (Digital Micromirror Device.) Models PT-56DLX76 and PT-61DLX76, 56-inches and 61-inches (diagonal screen measurement), respectively, can attain an improved contrast ratio rendering brilliant whites, deep blacks and crisp, vivid color with stunning clarity. The Panasonic fifth-generation DLP technology sets are planned for delivery in June, 2006.

Designed to deliver the full impact of high-resolution digital images from a multitude of sources, both models feature integrated ATSC/QAM/NTSC tuners, CableCARD1 slot, SD Card and Photo Viewer2, RGB PC inputs and HDMI inputs. The built-in ATSC3 tuner enables reception of Enhanced Definition (EDTV) 480p and High Definition (HDTV) native 720p/1080i/1080p signals. Both models include the TV Guide On-Screen Electronic Program Guide and a 30W audio system that includes a 15W sub- woofer.

“Panasonic is committed to providing consumers with the most advanced technology as a means to enjoying the expanding variety of digital media,” said Andrew Nelkin, Vice President of Panasonic’s Display Group. “With a growing awareness of 1080p resolution, Panasonic is providing a wide range of solutions to those consumers who seek the ultimate high-definition viewing experience. In addition, these new DLP sets are very well suited for any form of family entertainment, whether they are displaying high definition TV content, DVDs, video games or even when used as a large computer monitor.”

Other features include:
-An HDMI/HDCP interface that allows transfer of high-definition video and multi-channel audio over a single cable, which greatly simplifies the connection between a digital television and various CE host devices such as a DVD player or A/V receiver.

-Direct Access Video Input: This feature allows the user to select a video input source directly without toggling through all inputs. When you press the TV/VIDEO button on the remote control, a menu listing all video inputs will appear. You can either scroll through the menu to select an input or simply press the number on the remote corresponding to the desired input.

-Split-Screen display capability.
-Optical output for Dolby Digital 5.1-channel surround sound decoders.
-RGB PC input and XGA resolution display capability enable the set to serve as an ultra-high resolution PC monitor.

Hi all! I have been reading this forum for some time, but just registered today. I sort of dug myself a hole with the service menu. I realize that each set is calibrated individually, but I would appreciate it if someone could post their best settings for both interlaced and progressive scan for the PT-50DL54. I need a starting point to begin tweaking my set again.

anyone got one yet?

I have a PT61-DLX76 and I believe the 12.5k to 1 contrast rating. Off the hook. However, like in CNET's review, the blacks do suffer. I have not entered the SM yet (nor should I), and I watch all sources in cinema mode, with the black level set to "light". For some "dark" films like Batman Begins and Cinderella Man, I sometimes find that the standard mode works better in trying to get some more detail from the blacks. Overall, very happy still as I watch a lot of sports and Discovery channel. TV warrantied for 1 yr, bulb for 18 months, owned for 4 months so far. I got a great deal on it; if I had to pay msrp I would have investigated the Toshiba and Samsung models some more. Well, back to football, happy watching, -J.

Has anyone had success with getting a decent custom resolution using Powerstrip (PT-50DL54)? Nvidia drivers give me 1176x664 with a lot of black space around the image. 1280x720 has way too much overscan. I'm looking for just a bit of overscan, as my panel's display is a little skewed.

Anyone have to replace the engine on this set yet? If so how much did it cost you?

Surprisingly, I still have the original lamp running, and I've had the set for two and a half years.

I'm curious as to what the availability will be when it finally does need replacing.

Scott

I've had mine for 2.5 years too and am still on the original bulb. I'm sure I just jinxed myself though.

Does anyone know how to check the lamp/run hours on this set? I know how to get in to the Service menu, and when the CHK menu comes up, it has some hexidecimal #'s, but if I convert them to decimal, the # of hours only add up to about 3,200. I'm thinking I must have much more since I have had the set 3 years.

Here's what it says:

CHK 02219 0000000 08
0CC4F 0CC7 0C9A

CC4F = 52,303 (too high)
0CC7 = 3,271 (too low)
0C9a = 3,226 (too low)

Help.

I've had my PT-50DL54 for three years now, still using original lamp. I bought a replacement lamp a long time ago as I didn't want to be left out without a TV when it will burn.

But now may be the time to find a better display, a lot of improvements in the last three years. I enjoyed it a lot, but my main complaints with my Panasonic are, by order of annoyance:

1) the lack of shadow details (we play computer games on it)
2) losing significant part of computer image to overscan
3) worried about all the dust that must have gotten into it after three years, with all these moving parts in it (color wheel, fan)

The latest displays look so nice in comparison now... Looking for a display with good shadow details, no overscan, and no moving parts :-)

I have had my set for about 3 years. I had to replace the bulb after 6 months (along with the ballast unit) i've had no troubles since.

As for the quality of the display, while i do not consider myself a videophile, i am very picky discerning regarding the quality of the picture. i've had a lot of opportunity to compare my set versus some of the newer flat panel displays (most recently a sharp aquos 46inch 1080p unit) and i must say that the set performs quite well in comparison. although i wish i could hang it on a wall to save some space, i have no complaints about the picture. My problem is the fear of the bulb blowing at an inopportune time, and having to warm it up and cool down properly before and after use.

Big C

I've had my PT-50DL54 for three years now, still using original lamp. I bought a replacement lamp a long time ago as I didn't want to be left out without a TV when it will burn.

But now may be the time to find a better display, a lot of improvements in the last three years. I enjoyed it a lot, but my main complaints with my Panasonic are, by order of annoyance:

1) the lack of shadow details (we play computer games on it)
2) losing significant part of computer image to overscan
3) worried about all the dust that must have gotten into it after three years, with all these moving parts in it (color wheel, fan)

The latest displays look so nice in comparison now... Looking for a display with good shadow details, no overscan, and no moving parts :-)

Answers to:

(1) This is caused by color space /reference level difference between video and PC. All Panasonic TVs, along with majority of other TVs, are designed to accept video reference level rather than PC reference level. Unless the TV offers an option to chose what level the PC input is using, you will stuck with this black crush no matter what TV you purchased.

(2) Overscan is designed into majority of consumer TVs. Unless the TV offers an option to allow zero overscan (as with #1) for PC inputs, you are SOL.

So, if PC inputs are your concern, you will need to look into a PC friendly TV that offers both of above options. They are rare but exist.

When turning on the set, it has a message in the screen to change the bulb. Stays up there for awhile. When it disappears, the picture looks fine. Any way to disable this message and keep using it till the bulb does go?

That means your lamp closes to its pre-determined hours. There should be a way to reset the lamp hour counter. Maybe you should just order a new lamp (if you like to keep using the TV) and it should come with the instrucitons to reset the lamp counter.

I found this on another board for the LCD version hopefully it will work for your set - let me know:

"I also wanted to add this because it took me a bit of searching.. someone posted a bit of incorrect info on how to reset lamp hours on another site..
For anyone searching this thread:
To reset the lamp hours turn on your tv
wait until the notice about your lamp goes AWAY (it wont work with the message still up)

hold the volume down on your tv while holding the split/play button on the remote
you will get a notce about 4-5 seconds later that it was reset."

Well, it's been around three years now with this set, and the original lamp is still running. So much for spending the extra money on the three-year extended warranty as insurance against lamp failure. It seemed like a good decision at the time.

Anyway, I'm anticipating that lamp failure may be imminent.

Has anyone had any experience with replacing just the lamp itself, not the entire housing? A Google search returned myriad choices for really cheap replacement lamps, but they are only for the bulb. Most say that replacing them in your current housing only involves a few screws and wires. Sounds pretty simple.

Are there any reasons for not going this route? The cost savings is huge. There's a number of highly-rated sellers offering these on eBay for prices lower than I would have thought possible. (Some will even install the lamp in your existing housing for free).

Any experiences going this route?

Scott

Well, it's been around three years now with this set, and the original lamp is still running. So much for spending the extra money on the three-year extended warranty as insurance against lamp failure. It seemed like a good decision at the time.

Anyway, I'm anticipating that lamp failure may be imminent.

Has anyone had any experience with replacing just the lamp itself, not the entire housing? A Google search returned myriad choices for really cheap replacement lamps, but they are only for the bulb. Most say that replacing them in your current housing only involves a few screws and wires. Sounds pretty simple.

Are there any reasons for not going this route? The cost savings is huge. There's a number of highly-rated sellers offering these on eBay for prices lower than I would have thought possible. (Some will even install the lamp in your existing housing for free).

Any experiences going this route?

Scott

As long as the lamp is the proper size for the housing it should be OK. If you do decide to buy it please tell us where.

This weekend I went the cheap route and purchased a lamp for this set from bulbsolutions.com for $159.00, instead of buying the kit which includes the lamp and the housing from Panasonic for $300.

First of all, I could not find the steps to install the lamp anywhere (not included with the lamp), nor the service manual for this set. I made the mistake of removing the entire back panel first before I was tipped off on this site that the LCD model lamps are accessed from the front of the set, not the back :mad:

Here are the steps I performed. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK

1. Removed the silver plastic molding from the front of the set. Gently pry the strip off with your finger tips
2. Removed the screw holding the lamp cover plate
3. Removed the screw holding the lamp housing to the TV
4. Pulled out the lamp housing
5. Set the lamp housing on a rug, with the lamp facing down.
6. Removed the 5 or so screws from the back panel of the housing
7. Removing the final screw was tricky as it was inside the housing, I used a long screwdriver to get to it.
8. Removed the 2 screws holding the wires adapter/plug on the side of the housing
9. Realized that the power wires that came with the replacement lamp were too short, so I had to use my existing wires.
10. Removed two wires from the lamp. One was held on with a screw, the other with a hex nut
11. Removed screw holding blue rubber wire holder on side of housing
12. Gently pulled the wires out of the housing to ensure no chafing
13. Removed the 2 screws from the top crescent shaped chrome lamp bracket, holding the lamp in place
14. Removed the 2 screws from the bottom crescent shaped chrome lap bracket
15. Removed chrome tension bracket (Don't lose this, it could spring off)
16. Lifted lamp out of housing

17. Put new lamp in housing
18. Attached wires to lamp, adapter/plug, and blue wire holder
19. Installed tension bracket and two crescent brackets
20. Reinstalled back plate.

I'm posting these steps to save current owners the hassle I went through of trying to find instructions on how to do this, as well trying to save everyone $150.

If the above steps sound daunting to you, please do not attempt and purchase the entire lamp kit that includes the housing from Panasonic. Part # TY-LA2004. With the whole kit, it's a 5 minute job. With the instructions above, changing out the lamp only, should take about an hour.

Good Luck :D

MarkMSM - Thanks so much!!!!!
I have the "Replace Lamp" sign on and bought only the bulb. Hope I don't have too much trouble replacing the bulb.

http://www.bluestar-online.com/TY_LA2004_Panasonic_Replacement_DLP_Lamp_p/ty-la2004.htm?gclid=CJrL7vHE0JICFRYRQQodhyfZBw

Anyone use the above to get their bulb. My TV has started saying replace bulb and I wanted to grab one before it blows. This looks like the cheapest price online at 129.00. They also look like the same company as bulb solutions - the order page looks identical.

EDIT: Actually just found an ebay seller that is selling for 98.00. They have great lots of great feedback plus the same 1 year warranty. That was way cheaper then I was expecting to spend.

Help, please, especially azfox who has experienced the identical symptoms.

I have a two-year old Panasonic 50 DLP - excellent performance until the bulb started to seem dim and slow to light. Replaced the lamp, two days later the set started the black out behavior, at random intervals, growing successively more frequent. A day or so after this, the power button LED flashed red (six times). So I restored the still functional but dim and slow to brighten old bulb; one day later the black out behavior returns but the red power button LED behavior was gone.

Installed another (this is the second) brand new lamp. Excellent ... for about two hours. Then blackout. Grrrrrr. My repairman says ballast now. azfox said the ballast did not solve his problem but ultimately in this thread azfox reports his problem has been resolved after a month in the shop. But, there is no description of what the fix turned out to be.

Has anyone experienced and resolved this issue? Does anyone know the solution(s)?

Thanks very much!!!
doctorknight

Help, please, especially azfox who has experienced the identical symptoms.

I have a two-year old Panasonic 50 DLP - excellent performance until the bulb started to seem dim and slow to light. Replaced the lamp, two days later the set started the black out behavior, at random intervals, growing successively more frequent. A day or so after this, the power button LED flashed red (six times). So I restored the still functional but dim and slow to brighten old bulb; one day later the black out behavior returns but the red power button LED behavior was gone.

Installed another (this is the second) brand new lamp. Excellent ... for about two hours. Then blackout. Grrrrrr. My repairman says ballast now. azfox said the ballast did not solve his problem but ultimately in this thread azfox reports his problem has been resolved after a month in the shop. But, there is no description of what the fix turned out to be.

Has anyone experienced and resolved this issue? Does anyone know the solution(s)?

Thanks very much!!!
doctorknight


Considering the age of the TV, the price of current DLPs, and the picture quality improvements that have been made since this TV came to the market is it really worth sinking money into this TV?

In January 2005 I purchased the Panasonic 50 inch DLP model. From day one I had the random black-out issues (probably a couple of times a month) but the TV always came back on after restart. Then in May 2006 the TV would turn on but the lamp would not light. I tried a new lamp (no luck), had several repairmen out, one replaced the ballast and the lamp lighted once and then was very intermittent for a few days until it stopped lighting altogether. I unplugged the TV, let it sit for a few days while I shopped for another TV, and then tried one last time and the lamp lighted every time on startup until it failed again to light in December 2007, when I transported it to a local (non-warranty) repair shop. Diagnosis: bad light engine--no voltage to the color wheel, and the lamp won't light unless the color wheel is turning. Estimated cost for new light engine: $1600. Not worth economical repair. So I replaced it with Samsung HLT6176s, and got a better picture with more resolution and higher contrast ratio, but with other headaches involving SSE and horizontal line bowing. But I still love that DLP picture!

Hello all,

Well after 3+ years of owning this Panasonic DLP I decided to replace the bulb...even though my original was still going strong. I did a search on Ebay for the tv model number and found a couple of Ebay stores selling just the bulb.

I purchased one for $99 and installed it into the original housing myself. Well that was a month ago and I am happy to report that it worked like a charm. All of the sets original brightness returned, beautiful color, sharpness etc!

So if any of you are on the fence with replacing just the bulb don't be. The procedure is fairly simple and straightforward. You won't regret it.

Hello all,

Well after 3+ years of owning this Panasonic DLP I decided to replace the bulb...even though my original was still going strong. I did a search on Ebay for the tv model number and found a couple of Ebay stores selling just the bulb.

I purchased one for $99 and installed it into the original housing myself. Well that was a month ago and I am happy to report that it worked like a charm. All of the sets original brightness returned, beautiful color, sharpness etc!

So if any of you are on the fence with replacing just the bulb don't be. The procedure is fairly simple and straightforward. You won't regret it.How did your experience compare to this earlier post:. . . .
7. Removing the final screw was tricky as it was inside the housing, I used a long screwdriver to get to it.
8. Removed the 2 screws holding the wires adapter/plug on the side of the housing
9. Realized that the power wires that came with the replacement lamp were too short, so I had to use my existing wires.
10. Removed two wires from the lamp. One was held on with a screw, the other with a hex nut. . .

If the above steps sound daunting to you, please do not attempt and purchase the entire lamp kit that includes the housing from Panasonic. Part # TY-LA2004. With the whole kit, it's a 5 minute job. With the instructions above, changing out the lamp only, should take about an hour.

Good Luck :DThis sounds like a bit of a hassle. Did you have the same problems?

Scott

Hello,

I did end up using the original bulb wires. The procedure is not difficult. Have a long screwdriver handy and wear latex gloves. The bulb I purchased off of Ebay came with some:) Just take your time and sit in a comfortable place with all tools within arm's reach.

OK, my TV has finally reached 10,000 hours on the original bulb (very happy about that).

I've found the place I'm going to buy the replacement lamp (not full housing assembly), and went to pull out the old housing, but I'm stuck. I'm feeling really dumb here, but I can't remove the screw that holds the lamp housing in place.

It seems to be a special phillips head with rounded slots, so you can tighten it just fine, but when you try and unscrew it the head just pops over the slots. Very frustrating.

Did anyone else have this problem? Any ideas on how to remove it, short of drilling out the screw? I've tried all the different screwdriver heads I've got, and haven't had any luck, and I'm afraid I'm going to strip it if I keep trying. This seems rather strange for a part that's designed to be user-replaceable.Now I feel even more dumb. After posting this, I tried a different screwdriver set, and had no problems. :o

So, never mind.

Scott

I thought I post an update to my lamp situation.

I purchased a lamp off of eBay, no housing, for around $100. The company I used will also install it in your housing at no charge. Since their feedback score was 100%, with thousands of transactions, it looked like a safe bet. I happened to be in the area, and dropped it off at their storefront, which was one of those old electronic parts stores that you don't see that often anymore. A couple of days later, they sent it back to me.

It's been almost two months now, and no problems whatsoever. This was a great transaction, and really a great value. Originally, I was kind of scared that I'd be replacing a $300 bulb every year with this TV, but it's turned out to be a nice little set that was well-worth the investment.

I highly recommend the lamp-only replacement procedure.

Scott

Hello all,

I haven't been on this forum since I bought my tv 3 years ago or so. My bulb recently burned out and I thought I would share my experience if it would help others.

I bought the $99 bulb off of eBay and put it in the housing. The wires included with the new bulb are too short, and you will need to use the original wires that go with the old bulb. After reinstalling it in the tv, it wouldn't relight. I tried it a few times and finally got it to light. I watched for about 5 minutes and it shut off. Concerned, I went to the troubleshooting website included with the bulb and it implied that there may be further problems if the bulb is good, those being a faulty ballast, or circuit board. I went on this forum to see if there were any answers, and didn't seem to find any different opinions. I went back to my tv and pulled out the bulb, and then pushed it back in to make sure it was seated correctly. I should mention, that when my tv was not working, it was flashing a red light 3 times every 5 seconds. This would only stop when I unplugged the tv. There is no mention of what the red lights mean in the tv instructions, I just assumed it meant the bulb was out or not lighting.

After reseating the bulb, I left the plastic front cover off just in case I had to reseat again. However, the tv will just flash a green light at you when you do this, and it won't start. I put the cover back on, and the tv started working again. Sure enough, 5 minutes or so later, it shut off, and showed me the red light again. I unplugged and replugged it in again, and turned on the TV again. It worked for 6 hours this time, until we shut it off. We have used the tv with no problems for the last two days. I have a couple of theories as to why it worked this way, wondering if the bulb needed to be lighted a few times to "break in" so the tv didn't think the bulb was bad, or to adjust the power requirement of the bulb. I really have no idea why it worked this way. Every time I turned on the tv, I did press the split/play and volume down simutaneously.

Anyways, hope this helps some of you if your bulb doesn't light right away to avoid jumping off a bridge... I will post if I have more issues.

Anyone still out there. I have had my Panny DLP for 4 years, around May of this year my set started to turn itself off. I ordered a replacent lamp on e-bay, Installed it myself, the set ran good for about 2 months. It started to shut off again, blinking LED for Lamp Replacement. Removed the back of the set, dusted it out. Removed the lamp and removed any dust. It ran good for a couple of weeks. Now it seems to act up every 2-3 weeks, when it does I remove the Lamp and put It back in. Then it runs for 2-3 weeks again. Any idea why this works, but only for a few weeks. The lamp seems fine, the fan works. I also put a small fan behind the set to cool it off. Any information would be appreciated. Anyone still own this crappy set................
Scott

I've owned this set for going on 4 years now and I haven't had one hiccup. No warning lights, no bulb issues...nothing. It's now in my master bedroom where it gets used daily....

I've owned this set for about 3 years now. I had the infamous ballast issue early on, which caused premature bulb failure after 6 months. Once i had the ballast replaced under warranty, i haven't had any issues since. The set is used daily and many people with newer sets comment on the quality of the picture.

I'm sorry to hear about your lamp failure issue. is it possible for you to find an authorized replacement lamp from panasonic? that might solve the issue for you.

Anyone still out there. I have had my Panny DLP for 4 years, around May of this year my set started to turn itself off. I ordered a replacent lamp on e-bay, Installed it myself, the set ran good for about 2 months. It started to shut off again, blinking LED for Lamp Replacement. Removed the back of the set, dusted it out. Removed the lamp and removed any dust. It ran good for a couple of weeks. Now it seems to act up every 2-3 weeks, when it does I remove the Lamp and put It back in. Then it runs for 2-3 weeks again. Any idea why this works, but only for a few weeks. The lamp seems fine, the fan works. I also put a small fan behind the set to cool it off. Any information would be appreciated. Anyone still own this crappy set................
ScottHave you checked the actual contacts on the housing? By removing and replacing the lamp, you might be removing enough corrosion to allow a cleaner contact. That's a long shot, but it might be worth trying to clean them off.

If that doesn't solve it, I'm out of ideas. Other than a 10,000 hour lamp replacement and an annoyingly loud fan, This has been a great set.

Scott

Got my replacement bulb back in April after I started to get the notification to replace. It never died so finally replaced it. The instructions that were posted above were bang on. It is a little tight to do the work but only took me about 20 minutes and that was with trying to find a screwdriver long enough to get the one screw out. Otherwise it was pretty easy. If you have really big hands you might have some issues though :)

Altogether my original bulb had 12551 hours on it. The set itself is almost 4 years old now. Never had a single problem with it and been very happy with it. The new bulb brought back the brightness and vibrancy of the picture. You don't realize how dim it had gotten until you view it back to back.

If you need to replace your bulb, here is a "how to" on you tube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SZwqMawdZE

Have you checked the actual contacts on the housing? By removing and replacing the lamp, you might be removing enough corrosion to allow a cleaner contact. That's a long shot, but it might be worth trying to clean them off.

If that doesn't solve it, I'm out of ideas. Other than a 10,000 hour lamp replacement and an annoyingly loud fan, This has been a great set.

Scott

My DLP is now turning off every 1 or 2 days. The Power button blinks RED 3 times. Unable to turn the set on, unless I unplug the set. Any idea what this means? Should I invest alot of time and money to fix this set, or bite the bullet and buy a new one.......
thanks,
Scott
Looking at the Toshiba 52XV540U, any comments.....

i hate to ask as i know it's here somewhere but i just can't find it... how do you get into the service menu again for this tv? Thanks in advance (if I find it in the meantime i'll post back)

My DLP is now turning off every 1 or 2 days. The Power button blinks RED 3 times. Unable to turn the set on, unless I unplug the set. Any idea what this means?According to a snippet of the service manual that was posted here a while back, three blinking red lights indicate a problem with the FAN SOS, micropin 94.

Should I invest alot of time and money to fix this set, or bite the bullet and buy a new one.......Oh boy, that's a tough one. I really love my set, and would be tempted to get a quote from a reliable service center to have it repaired. The problem is that these sets are pretty old now. Finding reasonably-priced replacement parts and a good tech that can repair it could be a crap shoot. Plus, there's the possibility that there's a bigger problem which is just being hidden by the fan problem.

I guess it comes down to how much you like your set. If you've been looking for an excuse to move to up to 1080p, this might be it. Especially if it will take some convincing of the spousal unit (if there is one). But if it is a simple fix, you might be able to get it repaired for a few hundred dollars.

Looking at the Toshiba 52XV540U, any comments.....Sorry, but I can't offer any advice on new sets. When I bought the Panny, I had to promise my wife that I wouldn't even look at an new set for at least five years. I haven't been keeping up on the new TVs at all, but it does appear that (sadly) DLPs are on their way out. I've always thought that they offered the best size and quality for the price, but the market just isn't very interested.

Good luck in your decision, and please keep us posted if you decide to have it fixed.

Scott

i hate to ask as i know it's here somewhere but i just can't find it... how do you get into the service menu again for this tv? Thanks in advance (if I find it in the meantime i'll post back)From the service manual: "Press 'VOL' (-) on TV and 'RECALL" button on remote control simultaneously for at least three seconds."

To exit, turn off the TV. I think the lamp remains on for a few seconds after turning off the set, so if you don't want to wait, you should be able to turn it right back on immediately.

Scott

I found this on another board for the LCD version hopefully it will work for your set - let me know:

"I also wanted to add this because it took me a bit of searching.. someone posted a bit of incorrect info on how to reset lamp hours on another site..
For anyone searching this thread:
To reset the lamp hours turn on your tv
wait until the notice about your lamp goes AWAY (it wont work with the message still up)

hold the volume down on your tv while holding the split/play button on the remote
you will get a notce about 4-5 seconds later that it was reset."

I just replaced my bulb with an OEM Phillips bulb from River Valley Electronics, which I purchased on Amazon. I have had the set on for 2 hours now and WOW is it bright now! I had to turn the brightness way down (it had creeped up as the original bulb faded). The set definately has the vibrance back of a brand new set. If you need to know how to replace the bulb, I posted a link to a you tube video earlier.

The issue I am having is resetting the bulb counter and getting rid of the "replace bulb" notice. The instructions in the quoted post do not seem to work. Does anyone have the service manual and can tell me how to do this? I have a PT50DL54J

Thanks

I just replaced my bulb with an OEM Phillips bulb from River Valley Electronics, which I purchased on Amazon. I have had the set on for 2 hours now and WOW is it bright now! I had to turn the brightness way down (it had creeped up as the original bulb faded). The set definately has the vibrance back of a brand new set. If you need to know how to replace the bulb, I posted a link to a you tube video earlier.

The issue I am having is resetting the bulb counter and getting rid of the "replace bulb" notice. The instructions in the quoted post do not seem to work. Does anyone have the service manual and can tell me how to do this? I have a PT50DL54J

Thanks

I hope someone has the answer. Since the bulb is user replaceable it should have been in the user manual. I guess you could always call up Panasonic and ask them. If you get the answer please share it!

I just replaced my bulb with an OEM Phillips bulb from River Valley Electronics, which I purchased on Amazon. I have had the set on for 2 hours now and WOW is it bright now! I had to turn the brightness way down (it had creeped up as the original bulb faded). The set definately has the vibrance back of a brand new set. If you need to know how to replace the bulb, I posted a link to a you tube video earlier.

The issue I am having is resetting the bulb counter and getting rid of the "replace bulb" notice. The instructions in the quoted post do not seem to work. Does anyone have the service manual and can tell me how to do this? I have a PT50DL54J

ThanksFrom the Lamp Replacement manual:

Resetting the counter

After replacing lamp, please make sure to
perform the procedure below in order to
reset the lamp lifetime counter.

Procedure

• Press down both VOLUME DOWN
button on the unit and MUTE button
on the Remote Control at the same
time for 3 seconds.

• When successful, the 2 LED’s on the
front of the unit (Power and Lamp) will
flash for 5 seconds.
Note: If LED’s do not flash, repeat the
procedure above.

If anyone wants a copy of the lamp replacement manual, PM me with you email address, and I'll send you the PDF.

Scott

From the Lamp Replacement manual:

Resetting the counter

After replacing lamp, please make sure to
perform the procedure below in order to
reset the lamp lifetime counter.

Procedure

• Press down both VOLUME DOWN
button on the unit and MUTE button
on the Remote Control at the same
time for 3 seconds.

• When successful, the 2 LED’s on the
front of the unit (Power and Lamp) will
flash for 5 seconds.
Note: If LED’s do not flash, repeat the
procedure above.

If anyone wants a copy of the lamp replacement manual, PM me with you email address, and I'll send you the PDF.

Scott

Scott-Thanks. It worked.

Also for those interested, I have found the service manual for $19.99 here:
http://servicemanuals.vstore.ca/product_info.php/pName/pt50dl54/cName/panasonic

Eric

I bought the $99 bulb off of eBay and put it in the housing. The wires included with the new bulb are too short, and you will need to use the original wires that go with the old bulb. After reinstalling it in the tv, it wouldn't relight. I tried it a few times and finally got it to light. I watched for about 5 minutes and it shut off. Concerned, I went to the troubleshooting website included with the bulb and it implied that there may be further problems if the bulb is good, those being a faulty ballast, or circuit board. I went on this forum to see if there were any answers, and didn't seem to find any different opinions. I went back to my tv and pulled out the bulb, and then pushed it back in to make sure it was seated correctly. I should mention, that when my tv was not working, it was flashing a red light 3 times every 5 seconds. This would only stop when I unplugged the tv. There is no mention of what the red lights mean in the tv instructions, I just assumed it meant the bulb was out or not lighting.

After reseating the bulb, I left the plastic front cover off just in case I had to reseat again. However, the tv will just flash a green light at you when you do this, and it won't start. I put the cover back on, and the tv started working again. Sure enough, 5 minutes or so later, it shut off, and showed me the red light again. I unplugged and replugged it in again, and turned on the TV again. It worked for 6 hours this time, until we shut it off. We have used the tv with no problems for the last two days. I have a couple of theories as to why it worked this way, wondering if the bulb needed to be lighted a few times to "break in" so the tv didn't think the bulb was bad, or to adjust the power requirement of the bulb. I really have no idea why it worked this way. Every time I turned on the tv, I did press the split/play and volume down simutaneously.

Yesterday, the bulb stopped working. The Replace lamp message never went away. I looked at the lamp and I can't see that it is burnt out, but I am hoping it isn't a ballast problem. The bulb only lasted 4 months, but I don't know if it was defective, or if my ballast was the problem the whole time. Any advice would be appreciated.

Yesterday, the bulb stopped working. The Replace lamp message never went away. I looked at the lamp and I can't see that it is burnt out, but I am hoping it isn't a ballast problem. The bulb only lasted 4 months, but I don't know if it was defective, or if my ballast was the problem the whole time. Any advice would be appreciated.

About ready to ditch this set. Looking at the new Toshiba 52XV540U. The Panny DLP was a nice set, but to many issues with it. Good Luck!
Scott

Yesterday, the bulb stopped working. The Replace lamp message never went away. I looked at the lamp and I can't see that it is burnt out, but I am hoping it isn't a ballast problem. The bulb only lasted 4 months, but I don't know if it was defective, or if my ballast was the problem the whole time. Any advice would be appreciated.

Bought a new bulb from a local tv repair shop. He looked at my old bulb and he thought it looked fine. Put the new one in my TV and same result - green light flashes as if warming up, replace lamp light flashes once, and green light replaced by 3 red lights that flash every few seconds, tv doesn't work. I have reinserted the light a few times, and no luck. I don't know what to do. Anybody have a link to a ballast for this tv? Or maybe someone knows what is wrong with it?
This definitely is not in my budget.....

Bought a new bulb from a local tv repair shop. He looked at my old bulb and he thought it looked fine. Put the new one in my TV and same result - green light flashes as if warming up, replace lamp light flashes once, and green light replaced by 3 red lights that flash every few seconds, tv doesn't work. I have reinserted the light a few times, and no luck. I don't know what to do. Anybody have a link to a ballast for this tv? Or maybe someone knows what is wrong with it?
This definitely is not in my budget.....

Called the authorized Panasonic repair place in my area - says that the 3 flashing red lights every few seconds means a bad fan. I have taken apart the tv and got one of the fans out that I think is bad, I guess I have a 50-50 chance of being right.... I'll let you all know if it works or not.

Installed the new fan today. TV works! Glad I installed it myself, but getting the fan out was a little tricky. Hope there are no more problems now - tv has worked fine otherwise.

Installed the new fan today. TV works! Glad I installed it myself, but getting the fan out was a little tricky. Hope there are no more problems now - tv has worked fine otherwise.Excellent news, Derek. Glad to see that worked for you. Please keep us updated if it is still working a few months from now.

Can you give us a ballpark figure of what the replacement fan cost was?

Scott

Fan was $42 + $8 shipping from Panasonic.

Just wanted to add my experience with changing out the bulb on my PT-50DL54J :D This Sunday morning I woke up and turned it on, to find the power button blinking 80 times green, then 80 times orange, and the LAMP led constantly blinking, even after the power LED had stopped blinking. I decided to give replacing the bulb a shot before deciding what to do next. With the help of Scott (srw1000) who emailed me the PDF file of how to replace the lamp housing, I ordered a bulb off ebay on Sunday (Ebay Link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=220373341072) ) and it arrived today and 20 minutes later I was watching TV again! Thanks to posts in this thread and Scott, $86 later and I'm good to go! I'm going to order another bulb to keep on hand so I won't have to wait 3 days when this happens again :D

I have a PT50DL54 that I just put in a new lamp. I used instructions I found on this site so THANKS!

My question now is this: I think I've reset my lamp hours to 0. But I can't figure out how to find this code. I've searched high and low in this forum but can't figure it out. Any help?

My Panasonic PT-50DL54 50 has gone through the blinking lights, but I still haven't replaced the bulb. I did purchase a spare. My TV is experiecing a different failure....

component in fails... attached devices (HD Cable box, Xbox360, and Nintendo Wii) fail to deliver pictures as it is distored or flashes. Audio comes in fine.

HDMI - attached devices (PS3 and HDMI DVD player) video is fine, but no audio.

If I use split screen, I can see HDTV, but it smaller box.

Which circuit board in tv is suspect? The main logic board? I'm not sure that it is worth repairing.

At one point the video/audio was back to normal for 7 hours before failing the next day. Self check (- volume and OK on remote) :mad::eek:showed at on point SOS message.

I have a PT-50DL54J. It was given to me in non-working condition.
I was told that it needed a new bulb to work again. I replace the bulb(it was broken) and now when i turn the tv on it the power button blinks green approx 115 times then stops.
There is no indication of anything else even trying to work. No clicks or buzzing, or hums. There are no other lights indicating anything.
From what i was told it used to overheat and they had the back cover off and a fan aimed at the back of the tv in order for it to work.
I assume something else is burnt out but I have no idea where to start.
Any ideas?

Thanks
Greg

I have a PT-50DL54J. It was given to me in non-working condition.
I was told that it needed a new bulb to work again. I replace the bulb(it was broken) and now when i turn the tv on it the power button blinks green approx 115 times then stops.
There is no indication of anything else even trying to work. No clicks or buzzing, or hums. There are no other lights indicating anything.
From what i was told it used to overheat and they had the back cover off and a fan aimed at the back of the tv in order for it to work.
I assume something else is burnt out but I have no idea where to start.
Any ideas?

Thanks
GregI've got a chart from the service manual that diagnoses problems by the number of flashing lights. Unfortunately, there isn't any listing for green lights (the chart is only for the red light), and it only goes up to nine flashes - nowhere near 115.

I think you'll have to contact Panasonic to see if they can help you. Who knows, it could be an easy fix.

Scott