The "official" Hitachi 5xS715 thread [Text View] - Page 3

duc748s

05-12-06, 05:28 PM

Mr Bob

05-13-06, 08:58 AM

I got my 51s715 from refurbelectronics. They have a web site ends in com. (Stupid 5 post restriction) Ordered it last month and it arrived yesterday (mix-up with shipping company, so it got a tour of PA before coming to NJ, not Refurbs fault). When I ordered it I know they had a few 51's in stock, as I e-mailed them, not sure on the 57's though.

51 -
/57s715-rb.html (add the referb stuff to the front)

Mr Bob - If you are ever in NJ I would love to have you tune up my set. I can be reached at (Please PM for e-mail - retarded 5 post restriction will not let me post e-mail address, doubt I will ever post again it's a hassle) if you know when you will be here and would like to contact me.

First impression - just drooled last night watching TV, stared wided eyed watching DiscoveryHD (about squids). Out of the box PQ is nice, blacks are not blocky. Glare is not bad (Picture window to the right with blinds), sit about 12 to 15' away. Just need to finish hooking up DVD, Home Theater, X-Box & 360 (Currently on Dish running 948PVR). Lots of great info here, thanks guys and keep up the great posts.

ShaneV

Don't wait for me to pm you, tho I will. My contact info is in my sig. Contact me directly, by email or phone, I don't care which.

After calibration I will have you sitting no more than 7' back from your 51", delivering to you a pic twice as big as at 12-15' away.

One of the Pioneer 510's I did last year - 53" pic - the owner was sitting at 9' when I got there, with all sorts of blatant convergence errors he was not being successful at eradicating. It was a 4 hour drive in each direction, at $60/hr for my drivetime, so he paid an extra $480 getting me there, completely aside from the calibration costs. And was tickled pink with his set after I left.

When I was done with his set, he was sitting 6' away with no focus or convergence errors, for a pic half again bigger than what he had been used to, and so sharp he could study the grain of the film used to shoot the movies he would watch. Both he and his wife were staggered by the difference. And he's a photographer, whose high resolution blowup work puts 1080i/p to shame.

Can't wait to get at your set. Fly me out! I don't go across the country just to sightsee! I go there for work.

THEN I sightsee!

You ain't seen nuttin' yet. Your red push has not been corrected, for one thing. Since red push is the same as blue-green diminish, picture your picture when the greens and blues retain their stunningness that is not available when the fleshtones are prioritized, in OOB condition.

To see, perform the blue isolation test and take a look at your blues and greens. Your fleshtones will be lobster-faced, but you'll see what green and blue is supposed to look like. Then turn down your color level till your fleshtones are correct again and see how much your greens and blues have now wilted in response, in comparison to when they were correct via the blue isolation/filter test.

As I have been saying for years, red push = blue-green diminish.

These Hitachis are capable of greatness.

Mr Bob

bruce banner

05-14-06, 02:52 AM

Gone

Back!

The 51

http://www.uecweb.com/index.php?p=product&id=181&parent=1

and the 57"

http://www.uecweb.com/index.php?p=product&id=195&parent=1

:)

Mr Bob

05-14-06, 03:02 AM

Back!

The 51

http://www.uecweb.com/index.php?p=product&id=181&parent=1

and the 57"

http://www.uecweb.com/index.php?p=product&id=195&parent=1

:)

Those prices are just incredible for a bigscreen of this high end videophile capacity.

Whoever's on the fence about the size, go for the 57" over the 51". You won't regret it.

Mr Bob

CaysonE

05-14-06, 09:55 AM

I've found a rediculous deal on the Hitachi 65F710 and the 65F59. What's the difference between the two? I can't find a lot of detailed specs on the 2 sets and the website descriptions are nearly identical. Are these sets recommended? Thanks.

bruce banner

05-14-06, 03:17 PM

Hitachi S715 360 images

http://xs62.xs.to/pics/06014/3060.jpg
http://xs62.xs.to/pics/06014/3059.jpg
http://xs62.xs.to/pics/06014/3058.jpg

ysaric

05-23-06, 02:49 PM

When I try to run Magic Focus, it runs for maybe 15-20 seconds then drops out of Magic Focus and a green "4" appears in the lower right corner of the screen. I e-mailed Hitachi customer service and their reply was "With regret, this is not normal operation." and to contact a local authorized Hitachi service center. Awesome.

Yes, I have fiddled very small amounts in the service menu. No I didn't change anything drastic (and I saved the default information . . . somewhere. Yes, I'm sure I saved it somewhere). I have also spent some time on the 117 point manual convergence screen trying to correct some OOB convergence issues in the top left corner of the screen but no, I don't know whether I made the issues better or worse. Those stupid white lines aren't all that helpful, and neither are the HDNet test patterns. Yes, I know that at some point I need a pro to come out and calibrate this sucker, but for now I just want to know what the error message I'm getting means--have I messed something up significant or is it just saying that I've crapped up the convergence too much for Magic Focus to fix or something else entirely?

Any help? I would greatly appreciate any information provided.

ade333

05-23-06, 05:50 PM

Back!

The 51

http://www.uecweb.com/index.php?p=product&id=181&parent=1

and the 57"

http://www.uecweb.com/index.php?p=product&id=195&parent=1

:)

I purchased the 51" from UEC about 1 year ago and they were excellent to deal with. Shipping was high (not a shot at them, it was the fair price, it's just expensive to ship something so large) but even with that I still saved a bundle. I've had no issues... there are about 3 scratches on the cabinet(none on the screen) about an inch or so long but only visible if you are looking.

Mr Bob

05-24-06, 11:18 AM

ysaric

05-24-06, 02:42 PM

I suspect that sensor 4 is not being hit properly by its corresponding beam, in the MF process. You might want to try widening out the pic a bit at sensor 4, wherever that is, on all 3 colors and see if that helps.

First, thanks much for the information. Second, by widening out the pic at sensor 4 do you mean expanding the horizontal size of the picture? When I was toying with the HDNet test patterns, one of the things I noticed is that there was quite a bit of the test pattern outside of the viewable area on the left and right so I ratcheted that in a bit (which only increased the convergence/geometry? problems in the upper left corner [the convergence was off and the "circle" looked odd] so I then backed it back out a bit), so if we're roughly talking about the same thing then perhaps a solution is in sight.

Mr Bob

05-24-06, 06:47 PM

First, thanks much for the information. Second, by widening out the pic at sensor 4 do you mean expanding the horizontal size of the picture? When I was toying with the HDNet test patterns, one of the things I noticed is that there was quite a bit of the test pattern outside of the viewable area on the left and right so I ratcheted that in a bit (which only increased the convergence/geometry? problems in the upper left corner [the convergence was off and the "circle" looked odd] so I then backed it back out a bit), so if we're roughly talking about the same thing then perhaps a solution is in sight.

The HDNet test pattern is not accurate in terms of overscan. Even if you take it all the way in, to where you can see all of it, there are numbers missing on both sides, I believe one side more than the other.

As such it is worthless for overscan, and yes, can cause this kind of problem.

It is very good for linearity, tho, as it is next to impossible to get circles out of HD pattern generators. It is too huge an algorithm for pattern generation to efficiently handle, and as such you only see circles in massively expensive HD pattern generators.

The HD image itself is what has to be used for overscan reduction on HD. I usually leave 1.5" per side of overscan on HD, and 1" each at top and bottom. If I then run into difficulties like yours, I take that overscan out a bit more till any problems with MF disappear.

Mr Bob

ysaric

05-26-06, 09:47 AM

Thanks much, I went back into the service menu (after finding my notes about the settings as they were OOB) and re-set the horizontal and vertical size back, and voila MF worked! Your advice was right on the money. Now there is more of the screen I can't see on the left, right, top and bottom, but what I can see is pretty well adjusted. Ok, it was pretty well adjusted before, but at least I know what I did.

I still have one complaint, which is that when I bought the TV I was worried about burn-in regarding 4:3 content and had to bug my wife constantly when switching from 16:9 to 4:3 to remember to switch over to 4:3 exapanded. She's pretty good about that these days. It also bothers me that ESPN seems to be the only mixed-content (4:3 & 16:9) provider that cares enough to provide borders so that if you're watching some of their 4:3 content or 4:3 commercials (pretty much all of them) you're not sitting there in your head trying to figure out how much time your television is in 4:3. It's not convenient for me to switch back and forth during commercials because (1) I have to switch over the aspect manually since it isn't set to "Auto" and (2) Insight for some reason unknown to me has the audio levels on non-digital channels jacked up so that if I'm watching a HD show on ABC then my wife switches it to HGTV if we haven't remembered to turn the volume down in advance it's very loud until we can get the volume down. That's two things I don't want to have to mess with and change back every time a commercial comes on.

Ok, none of that is my complaint. My complaint is that I was originally worried about Burn-in relating to 4:3 content but the real issue isn't 4:3 content at all, it's all my DVD movies! Most seem to be in the 2.35:1 - 2.40:1 range so I'm watching an extended version of The Fellowship of the Ring last night thinking--crap, I wonder whether all this movie watching is going to screw up the set. 16:9 Zoom--not an option. It's like a pan 'n scan version without the panning!

Yes, my contrast and brightness are if not at the exact proper levels then pretty damn close, I'm not running in "torch" mode or anything near it. Yes, I probably worry too much. Yes, in another 5-10 years I'll almost certainly buy a 1080p set. Yes, I probably worry too much. Thanks for listening to me vent.

And thanks Mr. Bob again for the earlier advice, spot-on as usual.

Mr Bob

05-30-06, 07:14 AM

It's not convenient for me to switch back and forth during commercials because (1) I have to switch over the aspect manually since it isn't set to "Auto" and (2) Insight for some reason unknown to me has the audio levels on non-digital channels jacked up so that if I'm watching a HD show on ABC then my wife switches it to HGTV if we haven't remembered to turn the volume down in advance it's very loud until we can get the volume down. That's two things I don't want to have to mess with and change back every time a commercial comes on.

I feel your pain. But I think there's a way around that.

When I switch to SD content to keep my screen filled, I do it with my Panny's internal NTSC tuner, then switch back with the Recall button, (or whatever button others use for Pong-ing between the current channel and the last one). Or I just keep the alternate selection some NTSC channel or other and always use the recall button. Tho it usually helps to make that NTSC channel the same as the one I am watching in HD if at all possible. Of course this is usually only possible when watching one of the big 4 OTA networks.

Yes, I could do it with the Dish's remote, and then I would be in the same boat as you. But when I do it strictly with the TV's remote ONLY, the audio stays the same/unchanged since I have not switched anything in the Dish 622's HD tuner, which is where my AV receiver gets its digital audio. Usually the TV's audio has already been set to zero, meaning it makes no difference in the audio as to where the TV's video input info is coming from, as the TV itself is not making a peep.

When switched over to an NTSC 480i channel, most sets allow the aspect ratio to stay the same always, rather than having to select it to zoom every time the channel or source is changed.

Ok, none of that is my complaint. My complaint is that I was originally worried about Burn-in relating to 4:3 content but the real issue isn't 4:3 content at all, it's all my DVD movies! Most seem to be in the 2.35:1 - 2.40:1 range so I'm watching an extended version of The Fellowship of the Ring last night thinking--crap, I wonder whether all this movie watching is going to screw up the set.

At least with that movie there is very little worry, as it is primarily a really dark movie. But try Pitch Black, during the scenes with 2 suns!...

16:9 Zoom--not an option. It's like a pan 'n scan version without the panning!

Yes, my contrast and brightness are if not at the exact proper levels then pretty damn close, I'm not running in "torch" mode or anything near it. Yes, I probably worry too much. Yes, in another 5-10 years I'll almost certainly buy a 1080p set. Yes, I probably worry too much. Thanks for listening to me vent.

And thanks Mr. Bob again for the earlier advice, spot-on as usual.

Hey, y'know what? You worry too much!

I think you and I are in the minority, as far as actual worrying time goes, where you and I run neck and neck... I ran a post about saving my set from screenburn via using the NTSC channels on my set years ago, and most who wrote back told me I was wasting my time, that they had not done so over the years and had not seen any screenburn.

I just calibrated a Pioneer 610 operated by a family, and he pointed out that he had not done any of my failsafes on his. And his truly had NO screenburn.

But then Pios are factory set with Contrast at zero as user default - midpoint between -31 and +31 - while most sets - including my Panny - are defaulted at Torch Mode when you come out of sm.

Since users rarely use sm too often, it should not be hard to maintain midpoint or less as user default - as long as your family co-operates when you're not around...

I think you are doing great! Relax!

Mr Bob

EricFinn

06-03-06, 03:45 PM

Has anyone had problems with the sound on the S715 models? My 57S715 just stopped any sounds whatsoever. I was swapping out cable boxes because yet another one was bad and when I hooked up the new one I got no sound. Went back to the old box. Still no sound. Lastly I hooked the cable directly to the set using Ant A and still no sound. I've gone through the menus in good detail to see if I was missing something and found nothing. And before anyone asks, I checked the mute/soft mute, etc. :) Is there a way to "reset" the sound so it'll work again? I'm thinking maybe a fuse was tripped or something. Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Later,

Soundless for the Soprano's season finale... :(

Throttlebottom

06-07-06, 07:20 PM

Ballz2TheWallz

06-08-06, 03:30 PM

Hitachi S715 360 images

http://xs62.xs.to/pics/06014/3060.jpg
http://xs62.xs.to/pics/06014/3059.jpg
http://xs62.xs.to/pics/06014/3058.jpg
These made me gasp when they loaded :eek:

Mr Bob

06-08-06, 11:13 PM

I picked up a 57S715 recently from UEC Web. Out of the box, it has exhibited a marked saturation of red/pink in Standard and Medium color temps (Medium is worse that Standard). Even when calibrated with AVIA, a pink hue remains in whites and grays. It is not subtle, by any means. High and B&W don't exhibit this at all. I'm going to attempt to eyeball correct greyscale in Standard, but was just wondering if anyone had an opinion as to whether this did indeed sound like a greyscale issue on these two temps (since it doesn't show up on the other two) or perhaps something requiring a service call and/or possible return.

Thanks!

I am firmly of the opinion that manufacturers include several different color temp selections in the HOPE that ONE of them will be close to the industry standard of D6500K. If Standard is the closest on your set, great. If not, check the others out. Don't use the ones that are reddish. They are REDDISH. Not gray. Your b/w info should be the color of an overcast sky. Not reddish.

Only one WILL be closest. Find it. Use only it, from then on.

I have never seen any need for a selection of color temps. D6500K is all you'll ever need. Even b/w movies look excessively dingy at D5400K, which is its industry standard. B/w info looks better to me in D6500K than in D5400K.

Computers look good in D9300 because it is so blue-white, but most people are only looking at print, in which case blue-white is easier to see. So for computers D6500K may not be best. D9300 may be best.

Not so for TV.

There is no need in television for anything other than D6500K, in either SD or HD. If you cannot find one setting that will capture your b/w info best/closest to D6500K - the color of an overcast sky - your set needs an ISF calibration.

Mr Bob

Throttlebottom

06-10-06, 11:01 AM

I am firmly of the opinion that manufacturers include several different color temp selections in the HOPE that ONE of them will be close to the industry standard of D6500K. If Standard is the closest on your set, great. If not, check the others out. Don't use the ones that are reddish. They are REDDISH. Not gray. Your b/w info should be the color of an overcast sky. Not reddish.

Only one WILL be closest. Find it. Use only it, from then on.

I have never seen any need for a selection of color temps. D6500K is all you'll ever need. Even b/w movies look excessively dingy at D5400K, which is its industry standard. B/w info looks better to me in D6500K than in D5400K.

Computers look good in D9300 because it is so blue-white, but most people are only looking at print, in which case blue-white is easier to see. So for computers D6500K may not be best. D9300 may be best.

Not so for TV.

There is no need in television for anything other than D6500K, in either SD or HD. If you cannot find one setting that will capture your b/w info best/closest to D6500K - the color of an overcast sky - your set needs an ISF calibration.

Mr Bob

Thanks, Bob.

I was able to dial down the red on Standard using R-DRV-S. I realize that a person needs to pick one color temp, tweak it and stick with it. I'm just investigating a bit, trying to determine whether it's simply a whacked calibration or a problem with the set. I had a few minutes to try something else today. On Medium, which is essentially vivid pink, I decreased Color to 0, with no effect on the red. Same result when I went into the color decoder menu and reduced Red to 0. I hope that this all means that it's simply poor greyscale settings.

I'll definitely be getting this set calibrated later this year. I'm in NH, so I figure that I'll have Gregg Loewen come over from Maine.

Mr Bob

06-10-06, 12:30 PM

Thanks, Bob.

I was able to dial down the red on Standard using R-DRV-S. I realize that a person needs to pick one color temp, tweak it and stick with it. I'm just investigating a bit, trying to determine whether it's simply a whacked calibration or a problem with the set. I had a few minutes to try something else today. On Medium, which is essentially vivid pink, I decreased Color to 0, with no effect on the red. Same result when I went into the color decoder menu and reduced Red to 0. I hope that this all means that it's simply poor greyscale settings.

Yes, classic signs of grayscale misalignment and not color decoding problems. Grayscale is pure b/w info, color decoding is there ONLY when colors are present and being discriminated out from each other.

Remember, a green graphic set of letters can only be green when the identical red and green letters are black. Etc. That's color decoding, very very different from grayscale tracking.

I'll definitely be getting this set calibrated later this year. I'm in NH, so I figure that I'll have Gregg Loewen come over from Maine.

Great choice. He's an ace and will take good care of your situation for you.

Mr Bob

quackery

06-22-06, 10:04 AM

Mr Bob

06-22-06, 12:55 PM

What do you think I did wrong?

I bought a new dvd player to replace my old nonprogressive scan player replacing it with a cheap progressive scan unit. After hooking it up all I got were pink hoizontal lines. The manual for the player reads that my tv must not be able to play progressive images. I shut off progressive scan on the DVD player and got nothing. Is it a setting in the tv that I am missing? I returned the DVD player and plugged in my old toshiba player and everything works fine.

Thanks for any info you can supply.

You may have to hook it up via S or composite in order to get your DVD's menu graphics to the screen, to know what to do with it. That's what you have to do with the Samsung 841, which requires that its internal menu be set up properly before you can even use the DVI/HDMI OP to get 1080i upconversion to your screen. OOB it is not set up properly for that particular issue - just for normal playback - and won't do it.

Depending on your cheap brand, there are various ways to get into a DVDP's own personal menu for things like aspect ratio control and interlaced vs. progressive OP. In most cases you definitely have to have it in Stop for it to go there at all, even if you are pressing the right ingress buttons.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

06-22-06, 01:08 PM

I heard of a tweak sequence awhile back for getting into the sm of the Sammy 841 and telling it to put out 1080i on its component OP, whereas OOB it will only do that on DVI. I thought I had put it in a proper file for reference later, but I can no longer find it.

Anybody know anything about that?

Mr Bob

48Dodge

07-27-06, 04:10 PM

It's killing me!

I just got my 51s715 about 2 hours ago. Had it outside the garage and took all the screws out to separate the two halves. Called my father-in-law up to help me move it into the house and he had just left to go work on a job. About this time I hear thunder in the distance. We had a real gully washer yesterday and it looked like it was going to be the same today so I had to move one of my cars a little further into the garage and just squeezed the TV in there. So, here I am with a new TV sitting in the garage and a space and HTPC ready for it and no way to get it in... Hopefully I can get it in the house in about an hour and get it hooked up.

This is a refurb from UEC and I have noticed a few scratches and abrasions on the speaker cover. A couple of screws holding the halves together were a little loose, but overall the exterior looks pretty good for all its travels. Hopefully the guts will be good, too.

48Dodge

07-28-06, 08:44 AM

Update
Got it in and setup last night. We tried to lift the top off for about 5 minutes before realizing that there were 4 screws that still needed to be removed. I've gone over the instructions several times and still can't find the mention of removing those screws. Anyway, couldn't get over how light the top section was!

Out of the box, it looked really good, but I knew it was far from perfect. I let it run for a while and hit the MF button. That helped a little. Adjusted the settings to my MCE software. I can see why people say it's good but lacking now (same as Monster). Picture looked much better now, blacks are still a little gray even with brightness turned down to about 25%. I'm going to probably pick up an Avia DVD this weekend.

Next, I tried the 9-point convergence and it looked OK, 2 places seemed out of whack. After playing with it for a while and looking at the 117 point, I finally realized what I was really looking for. It was pretty late so I only did about half of the screen (the worst lines) because my eyes were really bugging out of my head. Next, I spent some time trying to setup my Harmony remote. Everything is fine there, just need to get it to go to antenna 1. It goes to Input 1 fine. I think I figured it out right before deciding to go to bed.

HDTV on the TV was really good OTA out of the box. I can't wait to watch it now that I've somewhat set it up correctly. SD looked really good through my HTPC. I have analog cable still and not a great signal at that. The stretched mode looks really good IMO.

One last thing, I noticed when I had it apart that it looked like someone had striped the center projector. It had 2 pieces of tape on the outer edges of it. I thought this was usually done to the outer 2 projectors. Has this set been "calibrated"? Or is this stock or maybe was it done while being refurbished?

Mr Bob

08-03-06, 06:36 PM

UpdateOne last thing, I noticed when I had it apart that it looked like someone had striped the center projector. It had 2 pieces of tape on the outer edges of it. I thought this was usually done to the outer 2 projectors. Has this set been "calibrated"? Or is this stock or maybe was it done while being refurbished?

What you are seeing is called lenstriping, for the purpose of white field uniformity. Have only seen it done on the green once, and it had been on there for quite some time, because when I took it off to examine it, the tape gook itself had scored the lens permanently. The lenses are plastic, and it had eaten into it and dug itself in, and the resultant scoring of the lens was irremoveable. I had to put the tape back on, whether it helped or not. So it had obviously been there for quite some time, made it look like it had been put there at the factory, tho nobody really knows.

I have seen all 3 done on a Mit, factory designed in metal as part of the chassis, in and under the lens itself. It looked like Halloween masks, with the red and blue being mirror images of each other, and the green a different design completely.

If it has good white field uniformity, let it stay as is. If not, try removing the strips and see how it looks. Be ready to put them back if it is actually doing a good job.

For white field uniformity, you'll need a full screen all white pattern.

This is NOT any evidence that any type of calibration has been done, any more than finding the duvetyne op done on your set when you go inside the optical chamber. You'd have to show me more than that to get me to concede that any calibration had been done on your set already.

Mr Bob

newsposter

08-04-06, 07:01 AM

am i going nuts or was there a post from me about power consumption on the thread and it's no longer here? (scratches head)

Mr Bob

08-04-06, 12:15 PM

I just put some changes into my last post above, about the lenstriping. Anyone interested in white field uniformity might want to reread it, if you read its original version yesterday.

Mr Bob

Randy Savage

08-06-06, 02:15 PM

ok, I'm a total gnub, so I don't have the vocabulary to say what the problem is, but here goes.

When i first got the 51S715, I noticed that under certain lighting conditions, the screen would blur. This was most noticable during fighting competitions (K-1 entrances) where there was a big laser light show of a whole bunch of really brilliant colors and then the fighter jumps out and walks down the ramp to the ring.

I recently moved the television to a new apt. and now I get the same problem when the camera pans very quickly.

Basically, there is a split second of fuzziness when this happens. There are two main causes that I have noticed, quick, bright lighting and quick camera pans. The camera pans are more pronounced on regular cable (digital, 480p, component).

Do I need to try and access the service menu to adjust these? I have not tried the 117 point MF as I didn't know what I was doing, but the auto function does not fix the problem. Nor do any of the regular settings that I have found.

it almost seems as though the camera/colors are too fast for the screen to keep up... not sure what this is called, but if there is a possible solution, I'd be very happy to know about it.

48Dodge

08-14-06, 10:09 AM

What you are seeing is called lenstriping, for the purpose of white field uniformity. Have only seen it done on the green once, and it had been on there for quite some time, because when I took it off to examine it, the tape gook itself had scored the lens permanently. The lenses are plastic, and it had eaten into it and dug itself in, and the resultant scoring of the lens was irremoveable. I had to put the tape back on, whether it helped or not. So it had obviously been there for quite some time, made it look like it had been put there at the factory, tho nobody really knows.

I have seen all 3 done on a Mit, factory designed in metal as part of the chassis, in and under the lens itself. It looked like Halloween masks, with the red and blue being mirror images of each other, and the green a different design completely.

If it has good white field uniformity, let it stay as is. If not, try removing the strips and see how it looks. Be ready to put them back if it is actually doing a good job.

For white field uniformity, you'll need a full screen all white pattern.

This is NOT any evidence that any type of calibration has been done, any more than finding the duvetyne op done on your set when you go inside the optical chamber. You'd have to show me more than that to get me to concede that any calibration had been done on your set already.

Mr Bob

I finally got my Avia DVD and went to calibrating the TV. When I had to turn green up to about 71% I decided to remove the stripes off the green lens. Took the back off and pulled them off. Only a little dab of adhesive on the back of the pieces of tape. It came up fairly cleanly. I was able to remove 90% of the rest with a microfiber cloth. Redid Avia and only had to put green at about 60% now. Uniformity looked fine to me so I have no idea what happened in this TVs past life. Maybe the previous owner had some unshielded speakers too close to the TV... Who knows. Anyway, I was able to play with the service menu and get the image centered (another post). I am beginning to see how with all the time I've spent where it's worth paying a calibrator. If I didn't enjoy fiddling with stuff as much as I do, I could definitely see calling one up to calibrate my TV.

Also, can someone please give me a rundown of how Magic Focus goes through. Mine seems to do an OK job, but I'm not sure if it's completing. I get "MAGIC FOCUS" with all the bars around the edge flashing in all 3 colors, then it turns red and I can tell it's adjusting, then I get a 5 in the bottom right corner. It's been like this since day one, even before my tweaking. 9pt and 117pt convergence all work fine so it's not a big deal if MF isn't working.

Mr Bob

08-15-06, 12:35 PM

I am beginning to see how with all the time I've spent where it's worth paying a calibrator. If I didn't enjoy fiddling with stuff as much as I do, I could definitely see calling one up to calibrate my TV.

Also, can someone please give me a rundown of how Magic Focus goes through. Mine seems to do an OK job, but I'm not sure if it's completing.

If you have taken your overscan in to where we like it for DVD, which is 4-4.5%, everything should work fine. If it has been taken in too far tho, either on 480 or 1080, the sensors at all the edges may not be being hit properly by the images sent out during this op.

Overscan on HD is impossible to measure in percentages, like we do for DVD, because I know of no patterns out there to do so accurately with. DirecTV's test pattern is useful for having a circle in it, for linearity, but not for overscan. Overscan on HD has to be measured in other ways, using externally received true HD images, and taken in accordingly.

As such, you may need to let it out a little bit again, if you've taken it in too far.

Mr Bob

48Dodge

08-15-06, 01:14 PM

I haven't adjusted the width at all. Just moved it around so it was centered. I will check the overscan. I was using a non-linear stretch of the DVD and it was at about 2-3%. I'll try the linear stretch with Avia and see how much overscan there is. That could very well be the issue. I knew that could be a problem with MF. I only have HD OTA, still analog cable (which I think looks pretty darn good fed through my HTPC). I've got an HD card on order for my HTPC so all signals will be fed through the HTPC so there will only be one input to worry about. :) Hopefully, I'll get some time this weekend to do some tweaking.

newsposter

08-21-06, 01:30 PM

In case anyone else is interested CC has a decent deal on the (57F59A) this week.

48Dodge

08-24-06, 04:52 PM

Well, I decided to take advantage of my warranty and get someone to check out my TV. They picked it up this morning to take a look at the convergence and the Magic Focus issue. Even though it wasn't a big issue, I'll sleep better. I ran across some threads on some other boards that the images not being converged and the MF not working being tied together and that something needed to be replaced. Worst case scenario I get the TV back just like it was and wait it out until something goes kaput. I'll let you know what happens.

newsposter

08-30-06, 05:26 PM

in the past week...my wife has heard 2 separate clicks from in back of the tv when she turns it off. And it's not the UPS, she knows what that sounds like when it kicks in. Nor is it the usual clicking it always makes when it shuts off. (2 clicks) She told me she didnt notice anything obviously on the tv at the time. And that they were much louder than the normal clicking.

Now, I am pretty sure the tv is a bit darker . When I go to a certain screen on my tivo or my dvd player, that's what i'm using for comparison since obviously TV shows can vary. But those screens woudl be "fixed and certain".

I know nothing but to use factory settings.

I do have DVE if that can help me at all

ysaric

09-28-06, 09:27 PM

I finally got my Avia DVD and went to calibrating the TV. When I had to turn green up to about 71% I decided to remove the stripes off the green lens. Took the back off and pulled them off. Only a little dab of adhesive on the back of the pieces of tape. It came up fairly cleanly. I was able to remove 90% of the rest with a microfiber cloth. Redid Avia and only had to put green at about 60% now. Uniformity looked fine to me so I have no idea what happened in this TVs past life. Maybe the previous owner had some unshielded speakers too close to the TV... Who knows. Anyway, I was able to play with the service menu and get the image centered (another post). I am beginning to see how with all the time I've spent where it's worth paying a calibrator. If I didn't enjoy fiddling with stuff as much as I do, I could definitely see calling one up to calibrate my TV.

Also, can someone please give me a rundown of how Magic Focus goes through. Mine seems to do an OK job, but I'm not sure if it's completing. I get "MAGIC FOCUS" with all the bars around the edge flashing in all 3 colors, then it turns red and I can tell it's adjusting, then I get a 5 in the bottom right corner. It's been like this since day one, even before my tweaking. 9pt and 117pt convergence all work fine so it's not a big deal if MF isn't working.

Bob's right, if you go back a couple pages in this thread you'll see I had the same problem. It is a picture size/overscan issue. Try going in and maybe expanding the picture, that's what was messing me up. I was trying to all the picture in the viewable area and it was screwing up my magic focus. I had to push it back out again for MF to work. YMMV

Mr Bob

09-29-06, 04:10 AM

Bob's right, if you go back a couple pages in this thread you'll see I had the same problem. It is a picture size/overscan issue. Try going in and maybe expanding the picture, that's what was messing me up. I was trying to all the picture in the viewable area and it was screwing up my magic focus. I had to push it back out again for MF to work. YMMV

Right. 2-3% is too small to hit the edge sensors adequately. It needs to be kept at least at 4-4.5% or larger.

Mr Bob

chris98007

10-03-06, 12:55 PM

Mr Bob

10-03-06, 03:27 PM

Hello all

I have had my 57 for about 2 years. It is a great tv for dvd and hd. My problem is with SD.

Over time i have noticed a loss of sharpness. It can be a simple as watching someones face. It almost looks "clay" like. As they turn there head, it becomes a bit blured. As i said i have noticed this only on SD. Does not really matter what channel.

Has anyone noticed this at all? Yes i have all the avia dvds and what not, yet they have not helped. Could it be with the cable?

Please help! It is so bad that i dont really enjoy watching tv in there anymore.

Depends on what genre you use for SD. Is it your internal channels, from OTA? Cable? Is it satellite, and if so which one?

I would not put it past cable and the sats to be compressing SD more and more as the years go by and HD is taking up so much space of its own on their bandwidths.

Mr Bob

chris98007

10-03-06, 04:14 PM

nope, just comcast cable. I was thinking about running new wire and connectors. maybe do a signal booster.

I do notice that when i use side by side pip the picture is great.

Mr Bob

10-04-06, 04:55 AM

nope, just comcast cable. I was thinking about running new wire and connectors. maybe do a signal booster.

I do notice that when i use side by side pip the picture is great.

If your internal tuner is going bad, spring $59 for a new VCR and see if that improves things, when you make it take the place of the internal tuner and IP it via one of the external IPs to the set.

Or get SVHS, even better.

Mr Bob

bruce banner

10-16-06, 05:37 PM

48Dodge

11-10-06, 08:45 AM

Well, that was the most ridiculous thing I've ever been through. I JUST got my TV back yesterday, nearly 3 months later. Magic Focus works and I believe the convergence issue when cold is cleared up. I'll double-check tonight. It was clear when I first powered it up but I played with the MF several times before it was warm.

One of the reasons it took so long was when I called Hitachi the first time, it was within the 30 original warranty. I believe the TV was picked up on the 30 day mark so Hitachi and the aftermarket warranty were fighting about who would need to pay. I believe Hitachi ended up paying for it. Then the repair shop that was working on the TV got a little slack, I think. I would call them once a week and I'd get the "Let me check with the technician and I'll call you right back". Well, I would always have to call them back. To make a long story short, I did something I should have done in the beginning. I asked the shop what they wanted from Hitachi, then called Hitachi and asked them what the holdup was. Hitachi hadn't heard from the shop in 3 weeks! AHHHHH! Also, Hitachi was told the problem was solved! AHHHH! I told them to please re-open the case. TV back in my living room 2 days later...

Mr Bob

11-10-06, 12:45 PM

My TV Modification! Finish

I line the inside on my TV with duvetyne and builded a lens hood.

http://xs207.xs.to/xs207/06414/015.jpg

I can say it does make the blacks VERY black. I had to turn up brightness 5 notches using AVIA calibration.

Have you cleaned your optics, deep-cleaning down to the CRT coolant covers if necessary?

Cleaning does even more good for blacks than duvetyne/lens hood. The combination is absolutely killer.

Mr Bob

Cruisinfanatic

12-04-06, 01:35 PM

Tried to hook up a home theater unit to my 51S715 and found that the L - R audio to hifi out jacks in the back of the TV dont seem to work. If I hook up the audio R and L wires directly to my cable box I get sound fine. Is there some setting that I need to change on the TV to get sound out of these jacks to the external amp? Can anyone help? Thanks.

sotti

12-04-06, 01:52 PM

Cruisinfanatic

12-13-06, 07:04 PM

After 6 months of playing with settings ect, I'm at a loss as to why the set seems out of focus, especially on regular channels. I have time warners SD 8300 box. Even tried using a regular antenna. Even DVD's aren't what I think they should be. Anything I missed that you can suggest I can try?

chromatica

01-14-07, 03:30 AM

hello everyone. i've had my 57s715 for 2 years now and have been stumped by something. how do you access the dolby digital controls?? i have my ps3 hooked up via hdmi with an optical cable out of the tv to my receiver, but instead of getting dd my receiver is showing pro logic2. the tv manual shows that you can access the dd settings only with a digital input, like i have, but it does not show up in the audio menu.
anybody know?

newsposter

01-15-07, 07:15 AM

turned in tv this morning...not 15 seconds after pic came on and i heard a pop and the lettering on the screen turned fuzzy and different colors. turned off tv..waited and on...same thing. Did magic focus and it did fix itself. What happened?

and is this a bad sign of things to come? TV only new nov 05

Mr Bob

01-15-07, 02:35 PM

newsposter

01-18-07, 07:30 AM

now i imagine the tivo lettering is a bit fuzzy..wife doesnt see it though and MF doesnt fix it. Pic isnt really noticeably worse. Couldnt be me imagining

what do you think could cause that pop and loss of focus from the first time?

Mr Bob

01-18-07, 01:01 PM

now i imagine the tivo lettering is a bit fuzzy..wife doesnt see it though and MF doesnt fix it. Pic isnt really noticeably worse. Couldnt be me imagining

Is your contrast down at a safe level? When I first turned on my brand new 73" Mit last week, the lettering was all fuzzy, and I had forgotten that Mit defaults its contrast at Torch Mode. Which was exactly where it was at.

I put it down to around 40% of the bargraph, and everything straightened itself out, as usual.

what do you think could cause that pop and loss of focus from the first time?
Arcing of tiny particulates in your CRT, might have been vaporized. If so it's a one-shot deal, with no adverse effects.

We heard about this a lot on the new Tosh HDreadys, it would happen for the first few months and then permanently disappear, with no adverse effects.

Mr Bob

newsposter

01-19-07, 04:21 PM

contrast 50 bright 56 color 53 sharp 35 black off edge hi

to the best of my recollection these are the same settings as before the 'crack'

maybe it's just my brain playing tricks

Mr Bob

01-20-07, 11:44 AM

contrast 50 bright 56 color 53 sharp 35 black off edge hi

to the best of my recollection these are the same settings as before the 'crack'

maybe it's just my brain playing tricks

Try turning down your contrast and see if that cures the fuzziness.

If so, could be that the overal light level changed on you. That's a really subtle thing, which most calibrators need light meters and foot-lambert readings to stay on top of.

If the focus block was affected, perhaps you need to go in and refocus it, electrostatically.

BE VERY CAREFUL NOT TO CHANGE THE WRONG TRIMPOTS! Stick with the focus trimpots and leave the screen trimpots ALONE!

Mr Bob

ericpd

01-22-07, 01:48 AM

Mr Bob

01-22-07, 02:04 AM

Hey Mr. Bob,... see you're still around. Nice to see you again.

Anyone have any suggestions for curing burn-in on either side of the screen as a result of not regularly using the gray bar setting? I have a 57s715 and everytime I view a HD source, I can see the difference in the picture on both sides. I've since began to use the gray bars religiously and sometimes scale the picture to fill up the screen when viewing an SD source, hoping that the screen will even itself out. Ain't happening! Is the uneven burn in the screen or on the CRT tubes? I'm hoping the screen.

Any advice would be appreciated,... and I hope the advice won't cost me too much! Thanks

It's on the SCREENs of the CRTs. Not the viewscreen.

Screenburn is by definition, uneven screen aging, of one or 2 or all 3 screens.

If you know powerpoint and can create a negative image so that what is not presently burned in as much as the other parts, can be properly burned in to match, so that all areas of the screen are aged the same, you might get away with it. You'll need to scope out exactly which colors are involved, and possibly getting into the optical cavity to take a look straight into the guns might help.

Failing that, the affected guns need to be replaced and re-set up.

Mr Bob

ericpd

01-22-07, 04:28 AM

It's on the SCREENs of the CRTs. Not the viewscreen.

Screenburn is by definition, uneven screen aging, of one or 2 or all 3 screens.

If you know powerpoint and can create a negative image so that what is not presently burned in as much as the other parts, can be properly burned in to match, so that all areas of the screen are aged the same, you might get away with it. You'll need to scope out exactly which colors are involved, and possibly getting into the optical cavity to take a look straight into the guns might help.

Failing that, the affected guns need to be replaced and re-set up.

Mr Bob

Well,... that sounds expensive,... real expensive. Prolly more than getting a new 57 off of EUCweb. So I take it constantly viewing the screen in one of the stretched modes won't do a thing in helping the aging to normalize itself?

Either way,.... new set or new CRTs, I won't be so stupid and listen to what everyone has said about those darned gray bars. Man are they ugly!

Well I guess I'll start my search for another 57s715!

newsposter

01-22-07, 08:00 AM

Mr Bob

01-22-07, 12:06 PM

Well,... that sounds expensive,... real expensive. Prolly more than getting a new 57 off of EUCweb. So I take it constantly viewing the screen in one of the stretched modes won't do a thing in helping the aging to normalize itself?

Either way,.... new set or new CRTs, I won't be so stupid and listen to what everyone has said about those darned gray bars. Man are they ugly!

Well I guess I'll start my search for another 57s715!

I wouldn't dally in getting yourself a replacement. Looks like all CRT manufacturers have stopped production on triple-gun RPTVs already, from what I have been seeing and hearing - there were NO CRT sets being promoted at either this year's or last year's CES - and I know that discontinuance is already true of Hitachis, Mits and Pioneers. The ones that are available now will slowly be drying up, till none are available at all anymore.

Try www.froogle.com, my brother found some CRT based RPTVs there.

No, using stretch mode now is a little too little/too late.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

01-22-07, 12:09 PM

Is it possible that only one part of the screen is out of focus after my 'pop' event? I'm pretty sure faces etc on the right 1/3 of the screen are blurry while the others are ok. I've seen the same face in the center of the screen and it looks better there than on the right. It's like the faces are more smudges or not as clear and defined.

This would be in line with my tivo screens appearing a bit blurrier for the date/station (right side) vs the program list .

Blurry can mean either focus or convergence. No, your focusing will not have been changed because of a pop, on only one side of your screen. With focusing, that could only be a mechanical problem. It's called scheimpflug. If you didn't have it before, you don't have it now, tho the Pio 510s always had it on blue.

Could be that your set's voltage regulation was affected, and that the convergence rails are at slightly different plus/minus voltages now, which could cause convergence problems, which definitely could affect one side of the screen more than another.

Mr Bob

newsposter

01-22-07, 01:11 PM

Blurry can mean either focus or convergence. No, your focusing will not have been changed because of a pop, on only one side of your screen. With focusing, that could only be a mechanical problem. It's called scheimpflug. If you didn't have it before, you don't have it now, tho the Pio 510s always had it on blue.

Could be that your set's voltage regulation was affected, and that the convergence rails are at slightly different plus/minus voltages now, which could cause convergence problems, which definitely could affect one side of the screen more than another.

Mr Bob

scheimpflug...wow. You learn a new word everyday.

I never sent in my warranty card so have to find my receipt for proof. And I have to dig up the manual to see even if the warranty was over 1 year.

Either way, would any of the problems you discussed be resolved by a calibration or is that an additional expense?

Mr Bob

01-22-07, 01:41 PM

Either way, would any of the problems you discussed be resolved by a calibration or is that an additional expense?

If the blurriness stems from convergence error, most definitely a calibration would take care of it.

Mr Bob

ericpd

01-22-07, 05:21 PM

I wouldn't dally in getting yourself a replacement. Looks like all CRT manufacturers have stopped production on triple-gun RPTVs already, from what I have been seeing and hearing - there were NO CRT sets being promoted at either this year's or last year's CES - and I know that discontinuance is already true of Hitachis, Mits and Pioneers. The ones that are available now will slowly be drying up, till none are available at all anymore.

Try www.froogle.com, my brother found some CRT based RPTVs there.

No, using stretch mode now is a little too little/too late.

Mr Bob

I thought you were going to say that. I think I'll place a call to an Hitachi service center and see at least if the CRT tubes are available. I have a high level of respect for this set,... and even today, IMO it looks better than some of the sets I see in the stores. I would hate to replace her.

I think I read somewhere on here yesterday that the new f59 is a step up. Their better lens system allows 4 lens to out-perform the 5 lens system in my set. UEC had it on their site for less than a grand!

Stupidity always has a way of making you spend more money! You'd think that is a lesson I would have learned by now! LOL!

Thanks for the info!

jwebb1970

01-22-07, 05:50 PM

I thought you were going to say that. I think I'll place a call to an Hitachi service center and see at least if the CRT tubes are available. I have a high level of respect for this set,... and even today, IMO it looks better than some of the sets I see in the stores. I would hate to replace her.

I think I read somewhere on here yesterday that the new f59 is a step up. Their better lens system allows 4 lens to out-perform the 5 lens system in my set. UEC had it on their site for less than a grand!

Stupidity always has a way of making you spend more money! You'd think that is a lesson I would have learned by now! LOL!

Thanks for the info!

Don't know that the F59 is a step-up, per se, but they are great TVs. And rather inexpensive these days.

Keep in mind that there are some cost-cutting things on the F59 series, but not cuts that dealt with PQ. For one, the F59s do not have a QAM tuner. So no cable card usage.

Also, it's been all but determined that the F59 OTA tuner--although it will pick up digital/HD OTA, is NOT a true HD tuner. Apparently, the F59 tuner takes all OTA signals, regardless of broadcast resolution, and converts them to 480i. Then upscales them with the set's "VirtualHD" to either 1080i or 540p (depending on where you set the VHD). True HD requires using either a cable/sat box or HDDVD/BluRay/HD upconverting DVD player. Why this is is a mystery. Guess a real HD tuner would have added a little more to the price than Hitachi wanted. Oh yeah....it's also a SINGLE tuner. No picture-in-picture for 2 OTA signals,

These quibbles aside, the F59s produce a gorgeous HD picture (as long as they're set up properly, right Bob? :) ). Mine replaced a Hitachi 43UWX10B I'd had for 5+ yrs. Prior to it's demise (convergence IC failure=costly non-warranty service call=new TV w/ 18-mo same as cash CC sale), the 43 was exhibiting some minor 4:3 burn-in. This was my fault mainly due to too-high contrast for too long (with black sidebars from my cable box) for the 1st few years. Plus I got a new, bigger HDTV w/ an HDMI input, which the 43 lacked.

Considering how many CRT RPTVs are still out there being used, there is certainly a source for parts somewhere.

abntroop

02-07-07, 11:29 AM

I've been lucky, I havent had any problems with mine, the picture is superb, it's a bugger to move as we've had to twice so far, but it was worth every penny. :)

Stereodude

02-07-07, 09:17 PM

I thought I'd post and point out that I'm still enjoying my 57S715 2.5 years later. Still has a great image. I wish the set had less internal reflections and a better ANSI CR.

newsposter

02-09-07, 09:17 AM

If the blurriness stems from convergence error, most definitely a calibration would take care of it.

Mr Bob

after watching for a few weeks, I'm positive the right side of the screen is more blurry than the left. Is there a possibility that a calibration would not solve the problem?

diat150

02-18-07, 11:21 PM

I just wanted to pop in and say how wonderful my 57s715 and my zenith dvb318 operate together. the hd on this tv can compete with the best of them after 1.5 years of service. The only tv that has truly looked better IMHO is the sony sxrd xbr2. so thank you to the people that recommended this duo.

Mr Bob

02-19-07, 12:58 PM

after watching for a few weeks, I'm positive the right side of the screen is more blurry than the left. Is there a possibility that a calibration would not solve the problem?

As I said, "IF due to convergence..."

You have to ferret that out before I can answer your question.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

02-19-07, 01:01 PM

I thought I'd post and point out that I'm still enjoying my 57S715 2.5 years later. Still has a great image. I wish the set had less internal reflections and a better ANSI CR.

Get your optics cleaned and you will be very happy with its ANSI CR - at 2.5 years you're due - and do the duvetyne op and you will decrease your internal reflections.

At the very least, go in there with a big black Sharpie, if you don't want to do the duve. That alone produces marvelous results in terms of reducing internal reflections. I believe there's lots of bare metal in there, but have not been inside of a Hit lately, so can't say for sure. If so, black Sharpie administration is a must, ASAP.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

02-19-07, 01:04 PM

diat150

02-19-07, 01:53 PM

Fully clean and calibrated, any Hit set calibrated by me will stand tall beside a Sony SXRD.

Mr Bob

if you ever make it down to louisiana let me know and I will go get you, house you, and do whatever needed to get you to calibrate the set.

Mr Bob

02-19-07, 02:14 PM

if you ever make it down to louisiana let me know and I will go get you, house you, and do whatever needed to get you to calibrate the set.

Please send your contact info to my regular email address below - don't pm me here, the AVS pm box is getting full - and I will put you in my customer book, flagged for Louisiana.

If you want to set up a tour, spelunk for those who need their optics cleaned, even if they don't want full calibrations. That will help with the travel expenses.

Anyone who would like to check out my latest calibration tour, the results are in, at this thread "Mr. Bob does Atlanta":

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=805133&highlight=mr++bob+does+atlanta

Mr Bob

Stereodude

02-19-07, 10:41 PM

Get your optics cleaned and you will be very happy with its ANSI CR - at 2.5 years you're due - and do the duvetyne op and you will decrease your internal reflections.

At the very least, go in there with a big black Sharpie, if you don't want to do the duve. That alone produces marvelous results in terms of reducing internal reflections. I believe there's lots of bare metal in there, but have not been inside of a Hit lately, so can't say for sure. If so, black Sharpie administration is a must, ASAP.I covered most of the inside with black flocked paper previously. What is the best way to clean the optics? I assume Windex isn't the right thing to use on the lenses? What about the mirror?

However, next time I open it up I'm disconnecting the stupid blue power LED that lights up the inside of the set.

newsposter

02-20-07, 09:42 PM

As I said, "IF due to convergence..."

You have to ferret that out before I can answer your question.

Mr Bob

well i'm clueless in this area so will pull out the magic 8 ball :)

newsposter

02-24-07, 10:28 AM

As I said, "IF due to convergence..."

You have to ferret that out before I can answer your question.

Mr Bob

circuit city now offered me an extended warranty. According to their card my regular warranty expired in nov. 1 year is 150 bucks. I'm guessing any service call would be at least this much.

Just wondering if anyone ever had CC come out and fix something under warranty? While the one side of my screen is definitely blurrier, i dont need them coming out and messing it up worse.

Mr Bob

02-24-07, 11:05 AM

circuit city now offered me an extended warranty. According to their card my regular warranty expired in nov. 1 year is 150 bucks. I'm guessing any service call would be at least this much.

Just wondering if anyone ever had CC come out and fix something under warranty? While the one side of my screen is definitely blurrier, i dont need them coming out and messing it up worse.

What I've observed from horror stories on this and other forums, is that repair techs are relatively if not totally clueless about the finer points of calibrations. Blurriness on one side of the screen and not another is not going to be your typical repair type of problem.

Good luck having this done by a repair tech, tho you may indeed get lucky.

I think you need a calibrator in there.

Mr Bob

newsposter

02-24-07, 12:52 PM

yes but I thought you said the problem may not be calibration. Just no way to tell without a look. Could a calibrator fix what else may be wrong?

Mr Bob

02-24-07, 08:29 PM

yes but I thought you said the problem may not be calibration. Just no way to tell without a look. Could a calibrator fix what else may be wrong?

Like you said, no way to know without a look.

Mr Bob

newsposter

02-25-07, 09:02 AM

Mr Bob

02-26-07, 12:45 PM

does the fact that even my wife agrees the pic is darker now (she cant see the fuzziness i do) lend itself towards any specific diagnosis?

also, if it's something other than calib, i'm worried that if someone calibs it and it still needs another repair, the calib could be for nothing? is that possible

It could be your focus block going defective and not allowing enough voltage thru, and this could get worse. If so, replacing it would entail recalibration...

It could be your sub-brightness shifting and simply needing resetting in the sm, tho the internal sm registers don't usually do that...

Not an easily predictable problem, unfortunately.

Mr Bob

newsposter

02-27-07, 08:05 AM

Mr Bob

02-27-07, 12:53 PM

so if i have this right it comes down to one of these

1 150 for the year warranty and possibly it just needing just a part (of course if it's calib the CC guy isnt the one to do it I know)

2 paying 400+ and having someone come for calib but it possibly not being the problem and he couldn't fix it if it's not just the calib. What I guess I dont know is, do calibrators 'fix' tv parts also or just make them look pretty?

If you have me in for the job you'll get both, because I am a heavily experienced and fully licensed repair tech.

Who is also a world class calibrator.

I have done many jobs which started with a repair and ended with a fullscale, fullblown calibration. Really puts a smile on an owner's face, I'll tellya...

Short of that, $150 for a year of repair protection insurance is not bad at all, even if you don't have to use it.

If you go the calibrator route, what I do is charge a travel plus $150 minimum charge for checkout, fully applied to whatever repair OR calibration work that gets done. If you don't need the repair, it all goes to the cal. If it does need repair, you've paid the first $150 on that repair.

If you decide to do neither, I keep it, and you've gotten a thorough, professional looksee at your issue.

Mr Bob

newsposter

02-27-07, 03:30 PM

toss in free removal the glare screen? :)

But i'm curious, what if you do need a part? Obviously my local stores aren't gonna have such a thing.

Mr Bob

02-27-07, 09:18 PM

But i'm curious, what if you do need a part? Obviously my local stores aren't gonna have such a thing.

Then I order it for you and see the sights of your great city while we wait. Or do some optics cleanings or calibrations in your surrounding area while we wait. Or do some work on your set in terms of calibration that are not dependent on the unstable brightness of your set. Like overscan reduction, or focusing, or geometry/convergence, or optics cleaning...

Prolly best to order such a thing next day air...

Mr Bob

newsposter

03-19-07, 07:56 PM

ok, i mailed in the CC warranty thing but they didnt charge my credit card yet..zoinks

and today my wife was watching tv when she said she heard a click and the tv went totally dark, then it came back on 3 seconds later perfect picture. She said there were not abnormalities or discolorations. And it's on a UPS and the tivos didnt hiccup so i doubt was an outage

edit...so am i looking at serious trouble? dang the 46 was great for years except getting dirty.

Mr Bob

03-19-07, 08:00 PM

natedeezy

04-02-07, 11:39 PM

Mr Bob

04-03-07, 08:34 AM

Hey found this forum a little while ago so much info. Anyway I've had my 51s715 for a while now and every once in awhile It'll turn on and the and one of the guns will be jacked way up. :( The only way I can seem to do anything is by adjusting the gains under the front cover. Any help please, it seems to happen every 3-4 months at random.

Sounds like an unstable focus block. Is it always the same color or different colors? Do more than one get jacked up, or just one color at a time?

If any of these is the scenario, I'd get the focus block replaced. Which will require new focusing - simple - and completely new grayscale - not so simple.

Mr Bob

natedeezy

04-03-07, 09:58 AM

Mr Bob

04-03-07, 02:53 PM

If memory serves I think RGB have all done it at one point in time over the last three years. And actually something heavy fell on the floor a few feet away and that trigger the red once. How complex is setting the grayscale?

Thank you

Nathan

Very. Grayscale has a very intense learning curve. Best to have it done by me or somebody else versed in how to do it all on the same visit. Techs will be good for the replacement, but won't know much about grayscale. Calibrators will be the opposite.

Those who know both, cold, are few and far between.

You might also check the plug-ins to your FBT or its splitter, if it uses one. Usually all 3 CRTs plug in their anode wires, that lead to the anode caps. Sometimes they have not been put in correctly, and are now not fully making contact.

There was a chance it was in one of your CRTs, but if all 3 have done it at some time or other, I doubt it's there. Most likely in your focus block.

Since it's intermittent, replacing the most likely suspect will be the best you can do on the first go round, and hope that was it. If that doesn't do it, the second most likely suspect is the CRTs.

Mr Bob

natedeezy

04-04-07, 02:44 PM

Mr Bob

04-05-07, 01:45 PM

Mr. Bob thanks for your help so far. After looking around awhile it's seems you're CRT guru, anyway replacing the part won't be a problem but getting it calibrated thats another, living in Iowa has it's downfalls. Is adjusting the Grayscale a matter of useing the focus block to adjust focus and RGB levels? If so I've done that 7 about times, granted with no equipment to measure it's all done by eyeball.

Yes, but that only gets you close. To really dial in the grayscale, even to the moderately accurate level of a factory job, requires getting into the sm and being adept at all its nips and tucks. To truly get it to the industry standard of D6500K requires reference equipment and a really good and experienced eye for such things.

Mr Bob

ade333

11-08-07, 11:45 PM

karalp

11-11-07, 08:14 PM

:mad:help my 57 f710s is red. When I check the color red works green works and blue works???

Mr Bob

11-12-07, 03:06 PM

I dont follow this thread any more, but does anyone know if a firmware release ever came out for the 51S715?

I am running Main V0125.0000

Have some HDCP errors when outputting from my STB through my reciever.

If you mean via HDMI, have you done the factory mod that Hit came out with, to stabilize it? DK if that applies to your model -

The mod stabilizes erratic behavior on HDMI, but there is still some side to side shifting that occasionally happens, that they are still working on.

Mr Bob

Mr Bob

11-12-07, 03:07 PM

:mad:help my 57 f710s is red. When I check the color red works green works and blue works???

Inadequate data. Please embellish a bit -

Mr Bob

karalp

11-13-07, 05:31 AM

Inadequate data. Please embellish a bit -

Mr Bob

Well when I was watching it the other night most everything on the screen went red. If there was a scene with a lot of blue you could see blue. The strange thing if there was a tv in the scene that tv's color was fine??? I checked color I could click on red then green and blue each time the screen turn the correct color.

Last night I unplugged the tv now it won't power up at all. The tv is only 1 3/4 yrs old. Of course it's now off warranty and the closest repair person is 40 miles away.

Mr Bob

11-13-07, 01:39 PM

Well when I was watching it the other night most everything on the screen went red. If there was a scene with a lot of blue you could see blue. The strange thing if there was a tv in the scene that tv's color was fine??? I checked color I could click on red then green and blue each time the screen turn the correct color.

Last night I unplugged the tv now it won't power up at all. The tv is only 1 3/4 yrs old. Of course it's now off warranty and the closest repair person is 40 miles away.

How did you check colors, via sm regs or in user, on incoming video or internal patterns? Did the overall light level of your pic change at all?

Sounds like you will need a tech in there, at first glance -

Mr Bob

karalp

11-13-07, 03:08 PM

How did you check colors, via sm regs or in user, on incoming video or internal patterns? Did the overall light level of your pic change at all?

Sounds like you will need a tech in there, at first glance -

Mr Bob

There is a section in the menu called color decoding. In that section you can click on RGB together or R G B separately. It is normally on RGB. When I clicked on each color the screen would turn the correct color.

The picture eventually was getting darker. Thanks for your response!!!

Mr Bob

11-13-07, 03:51 PM

There is a section in the menu called color decoding. In that section you can click on RGB together or R G B separately. It is normally on RGB. When I clicked on each color the screen would turn the correct color.

The picture eventually was getting darker. Thanks for your response!!!

My new 73" Mits has PerfectColor, which does something very similar, but has no individual colors. It would be really nice to have, gotta try your sys sometime! Mits's do allow for color isolation in the conv sm, but you have to be careful on my unit, as whenever you come out of the other menu, your contrast has been maxed out, even tho it still says it's where you set it before going in to sm. You have to go back and forth one click each to get it to go back to where it had been.

So if you haven't done that and go into the conv sm, your contrast is maxed while you are trying to get precision in your convergence, OR on checking something needing color isolation. Which definitely is not the right way to go...

I don't think you'll get away with not having a tech in on this one, tho. Whenever a unit shuts down, something's wrong in there.

:(

Mr Bob

karalp

11-13-07, 05:15 PM

My new 73" Mits has PerfectColor, which does something very similar, but has no individual colors. It would be really nice to have, gotta try your sys sometime! Mits's do allow for color isolation in the conv sm, but you have to be careful on my unit, as whenever you come out of the other menu, your contrast has been maxed out, even tho it still says it's where you set it before going in to sm. You have to go back and forth one click each to get it to go back to where it had been.

So if you haven't done that and go into the conv sm, your contrast is maxed while you are trying to get precision in your convergence. Which definitely is not the right way to go...

I don't think you'll get away with not having a tech in on this one, tho. Whenever a unit shuts down, something's wrong in there.

:(

Mr Bob

Thanks again!

Mr Bob

11-13-07, 05:45 PM

Thanks again!

Good luck, let us know how it turns out -

Mr Bob

Paul E. Fox, II

11-24-07, 01:42 AM

Mr Bob

11-24-07, 11:31 AM

Mr. Bob,

It's been awhile since I've posted in this thread but If you wouldn't mind...could you help me out here?

I've noticed that my overscan is a bit off and I want to correct but after reading this entire thread, as well as all my other bookmarked Hitachi S715 threads, I'll be darned if I can remember how I'm supposed to do this correctly...

Is it the two trim pots INSIDE the set itself or are there specific adjustments in the Service Menu and if so, which adjustments?

Also, since my TV is now over 2 years old, how should I go about removing the dust from the inside on the actual CRTs themselves? I noticed an old post from you regarding this but I'm not sure I understand it. Is there nothing safe for someone to use at home?

Last thing, you mentioned a Firmware update that is available for this set. How does one go about getting that update and then installing it or is it something that has to be done by a technician. I've had issues with the HDCP handshake between the S715 and my Pioneers VSX-74TXVi ever since I bought the receiver. I know there is a firmware update for the Pioneer but it has to be sent to a service center...is that the same for the Hitachi.

All in all, this has been a great set and I'm still very happy with it. If it holds up, it's gonna stay around for a couple more years before it gets moved out of the HT and into the Living Room.

Thanks again for all the help you've given me thus far and I'm very glad to see you're still posting in this thread.

I am available for phone consultation on these things, if you want to contact me.

Jwebb is the one who reported on the firmware update to cure all but the horizontal shifting issue, which I believe they are still working on.

There are 4 threads on Hitachis in this section that I know of. Search them out, much of what you are looking for will be there.

Otherwise, you know how to reach me.

This message is for everyone -

PLEASE DON'T CONTACT ME BY PM! Use my regular email address, in my sig. There's a limit to how many pms you can store in there, it's getting big and I don't really have the time to be sifting that out!

Thanks -

Mr Bob

Paul E. Fox, II

11-24-07, 06:00 PM

Mr Bob

12-08-07, 03:01 PM

I don't think this is worth actually bothering you via phone...I just couldn't remember how to adjust the overscan correctly.

My memory is a bit flaky and while I thought I copied every piece of information I could find relating to adjustments I could make in a file, I can't find this.

I did look at all the bookmarked info I have for this...most of what I could find relating to overscan was for OLDER sets...not this specific model.

The cleaning stuff was asked back a page or two and not answered so I just brought it up again. I understand not wanting to give out too much info as you have a business to run and training isn't free.

I'll keep looking

Remember, reducing the overscan is very easy. Correcting the immense amount of distortion doing so causes, THAT's where the talent comes in, and it does have a bit of a learning curve. Short learning curve for some, LONG learning curve for most.

Good luck, and call me if you need to sign up for a consultation.

Mr Bob

josefwells

01-08-08, 06:15 PM

I am also interested in messing with my overscan. I emailed the fine people at Hitachi and requested a service manual and they said no! I said pretty please, and they said no again. Can you imagine?

Anyway, what is a guy to do. Much earlier in this thread I believe Mr. Bob said to call and ask. Does anyone have the thing and feel like scanning/posting it for posterity?

h2dk

01-09-08, 03:04 PM

I have a question (that was asked a year or so ago and never answered). I just got a PS3 and hooked it up via HDMI. I attached the optical out (of the TV) to my receiver, however, I am not getting DD5.1. The Audio options in the menu will not advance to the second page where the digital out is located. Does anybody know what I am doing wrong?

karalp

01-10-08, 01:45 PM

Good luck, let us know how it turns out -

Mr Bob

Well it's been awhile but I finally got my TV fixed today. It was the CRT board. The tech replaced all 3 which is what Hitachi recommended. A fuse was blown for some reason that's why it wouldn't power up. He unplugged it again and it wouldn't power up again. No blown fuse this time. He took out the power unit checked it out then put it back in and it seems to be fine now??? Wish I never purchased this TV. Hope it stays fixed....Thanks for your help!!!

kat

03-15-08, 04:56 PM

Hi,

Does anyone know if the 51S715 can handle PAL output frequencies? i.e. 50Hz.

I'm planning to mod an HD-XA2 to support PAL, so it will put out 480/576/1080 at 50Hz.

Thanks,
-Kat

Mr Bob

03-15-08, 07:32 PM

zed22

05-20-08, 04:54 PM

I have had this set since January of 2005. I finally started to really notice the degraded picture quality and just cleaned my lenses from the rear of the set using Mr. Bob's advice (paper towels, SprayWay, be careful). The results were outstanding... for about four or five days, when a light smudge looking oval in the middle of the screen showed up that I had never noticed before, most easily seen with bright whites displayed.

I thought it was from the kids touching the outside of the protective screen, but when I went to clean it off it became clear it was underneath. I took the screen off to see if anything obvious was causing it, then recleaned the lenses and now the mirror since it was accessible from the front of the set (using SprayWay and a micro-fiber cloth on the mirror). The smudge is still there too, but I am hesitant to take the trim off the inner screens and look in between those and the outer protective screen.

Since doing so, the huge improvement I initially got from the first lens cleaning seems to be gone, just kind of dull and a little blurry like when the lenses were dirty. I am 99% sure the mirror is not mylar and it seemed pretty clean to me when I was done. The lenses are fine and I doubt scratched since I followed Mr. Bob's instructions and was paranoid careful. I guess my question is what sorts of things I could have done to lose that luster I just got back. Is this just all in my head?

Edit: So I went back in to check the mirror. It was very streaky (so much for streak-free micro-fiber cloths and spray). I cleaned it again, then went over it polishing out all of the streaks. It was invisible when I was done. I thought that would do it, but no change. I looked at my lenses a little closer and I did see a small area of scratches on the blue gun. Maybe I was a little overzealous cleaning them. I'm not sure what kind of effect that has. The convergence looks ok, but that is from an amateur glance and could be way off for all I know. I know it looked fantastic after the first lens cleaning, and now has lost that since pulling the screen off to get to the mirror.

Mr Bob

05-23-08, 12:26 PM

gamblersfan

07-02-08, 01:41 AM

Using Ant A as my outdoor antenna input. The local stations, both analog and digital, have come in great since the day I hooked up the outdoor antenna almost 4 years ago. Today I noticed no digital channels, picture or sound, would come in. I got the "weak signal or channel not available" box on the screen. I did signal strengths on the channels and they were all in the 80s. I tried the analog versions of the channels and they came in as they always have.

Is my tuner bad? I didn't call the TV stations to check if the problem was on their end. I figured all of them couldn't be down. Did a visual check of the antenna and wire, no detectable defects.

Using Input 1 as my cable box input, Input 2 as DVD input, Ant A is outdoor antenna.

BigShowJoe

12-09-08, 05:09 PM

mrranger

04-20-09, 07:48 PM

Mr Bob

04-21-09, 02:59 AM

I know this is an old thread but I am about to sell my 57S715 and I was wondering if there is any way to get the lamp hours? I can get into the service menu but I don't see any option to show lamp hours.

These are CRTs, they don't use lamps. And only the more expensive CRT ceiling pjs have counting timers in there that count the hours for you, and are reset to zero each time they get regunned.

No, these sets were designed for price points that would never allow for such nice delicacies -

:p

b

Mr Bob

04-21-09, 03:06 AM

Recently on my 57s715 I have noted that any text near the top, bottom or sides is not showing completely, as if the picture is zoomed in slightly. While watching Nascar, the ticker at the top is close to getting where you can't read it. Same is true with Station logos that are near the edges of the screen. Is there an adjustment that I can make? Yes, I checked, the aspect and it is ok.

Thanks

What you're talking about is overscan. All CRT RPTVs were designed with it, so they wouldn't have to work so hard to please Joe Sixpack. Remedying it via overscan reduction has been a staple of calibration since the beginning of the HDready era.

Yes it can be done, but not quickly and easily. When you reduce your sizing down to where it properly shows what you're currenty missing, that throws off all the precision of the pic you have now.

Taking in the overscan is the easy part. Remedying how badly it hoses your picture and putting it back to complete coherency again is where the true work of art'ism comes in.

For years we calibrators accomplished it via the service menu only, but then an Aussie named Owen paved the way for the same thing but in a much more effective way, using a very unique way of doing it that we now call the Shimming Op. On his 57" Hit, he put shims in to raise his CRT array so it was closer to the mirror and thus the screen. That took out the nasty zoom all sets are designed with, and restored your lost areas of video real estate.

I tried it on my 73" Mit and it works like gangbusters! Not only do you get the benefit of seeing more of your pic, you get the added benefit of having a lot more of your CRT face actually hitting the screen, jamming more pixels in per square inch mechanically, and thus increasing the pixel density and the resolution - in both directions! With sm only, the same area of CRT face stays available to the viewscreen. You get more pixels, but not more screen face.

More screen face is better, by far. It gives you a much more expansive picture, once dialed in again. You can find out more about it here -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1129800

Go Owen!

;)

b

mrranger

04-21-09, 10:36 AM

Mr Bob,

Thanks a bunch for the info. I will spend the time to read the entire thread to understand it more fully. I do though have no clue how to introduce the test patterns and how to interpret them. Perhaps the thread gets into that... I will see.

Of course I have always noticed a slight amount of overscan, yet suddenly the overscan has become severe. While watching "Chuck" last night, I could only see the very top portion of the NBC "Peacock" logo on the bottom of the screen. So, I wonder if my problem has another cause needing further remedies?

Appreciate the help!

Mr Bob

04-21-09, 12:58 PM

Many people don't notice it at all until they go HD. It really doesn't show up as much on sd, tho both would be remedied by the shimming op. And both would NEED to be remedied - you can't change something mechanically in there on one scanrate without automatically affecting the other.

If it's not that, then no I DK why it would suddenly increase.

You can't increase it or decrease it in any of the known o'scan redux ways without substantial slop happening to the convergence.

Unless your HV has changed, which would coherently zoom it up or pull the size back. HV is very tightly regulated on HDreadys, so if that has happened, your set will need repair work.

It will affect both sd and HD the same, if that's what it is.

b

mrranger

04-21-09, 02:43 PM

Mr Bob, Considering your comments, I hooked up my outdoor antenna and low and behold the picture is perfect. So now I know it is either my DVR or Dishnetwork. I have an extra receiver I don't use, I will hook it up to see if I can conclude which is the culprit. Although, it dawns on me that it could be the input on the TV. The DVR is hooked up my means of the HDMI. I will have to locate some component cables to see if that would make a difference. Yet then again, it could be the fault of the output on the DVR. With the additional receiver I should be able to come to a conclusion, I hope!

mrranger

04-21-09, 03:33 PM

Mr Bob,

Problem solved! Got on the phone with Dish Network tech support and after the support person received help from another tech, we both discovered that on the bottom of the remote is the "star" button, it says "Format", it steps you through a number of different aspects and finally the perfect one comes up. Of course the picture looks a lot better too. Now I will have to read the rest of the thread you provided me, to see if I want to tackle the modifications. At the very least, I wonder if my tubes need cleaning? I will have to see. Thanks for the help.

Mr Bob

04-21-09, 03:57 PM

I was just about to say that - Format button, lower left. Incredibly useful button, BTW, esp. if you want to guard your set against screenburn.

Now if Dish would only TURN DOWN THE LIGHT LEVEL OF THEIR GRAPHICS on their menus and guides. It's causing screenburn damage all over the world to anything with phosphors, and they just won't listen.

If your set's over 3 years old it's ALREADY in desperate need of optics cleaning. That HV really does a number on cleaning the air in there and depositing it all on your optics!

b

mrranger

04-21-09, 04:52 PM

Mr Bob, Any threads that outline the cleaning procedures you would recommend?

Thanks

superleo

04-21-09, 05:25 PM

Mr Bob, Any threads that outline the cleaning procedures you would recommend?

Thanks

I'll take the freedom to answer this one ...

The ONE that started all...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=695922 :)

The information is scattered here and there through out the thread but everything you needed to know and more is there.

mrranger

04-21-09, 09:37 PM

Superleo, Thanks for the info!

Mr Bob

04-22-09, 06:32 AM

Yes it's all there, that and more. Just settle in for taking on 180 pages. You may need LOTS of coffee...

:p

If you want to cut thru all that and get it from the horse's mouth, not just about optics cleaning but also about any phase of the calibration process - and lots of repairs as well - my contact info is below. I started that thread, almost 3 years ago, and that it's still so very much alive is a testament not only to the incredible efficacy and long lasting nature of CRT triple gun as a medium, but to the intrepid owners of same, who literally came out of the woodwork to support my stand, and have been incredible stalwarts ever since as well.

That thread is STILL going strong! I plan to pop a cork soon, at its 200th page -

;)

b

brianbloom

06-11-09, 09:30 PM

I'll let my cluelessness keep the thread going here...

So I have the 51" S715 and have recently wanted to start watching streaming Netflix on it. I hooked up my laptop with an S-Video out cable to the front panel and can get a reasonable picture and watch a film that way. But I noticed that screen gets cropped pretty much on all sides.. Like it's making the image too big for the physical screen to render. Makes it very hard to see the Windows task bar and browser menus for that matter.

I've never noticed much cropping from my DVD player, but most of those have centered menus so maybe it's been this way all along.

I mull this over and chalk it up to cheesy s-video technology. So I decide to build myself a fulltime HTPC to use instead of the laptop. I bought a new motherboard with an Nvidia 9400 iGP (the Gigabyte E7AUM-DS2H for the record), build the box, install Linux (I would like to keep it 'open source' if I can) and hook it up to the Hitachi, this time using a DVI->HDMI cable.

Same problem. Can't see the top or bottom menu bars of the computer screen. So it's not just s-video, or the laptop, or Windows, or Linux, etc. It was using 16x9 mode so I tried cycling through the Aspect options but all the alternatives (only 16x9 zoom and 4x3 expanded) were worse.

Is this overscan? Some incorrect resolution issue? Nothing in the menus seems to let me try adjusting the scaling (I remember old TV sets with position and sizing knobs, but that seems to be a relic). How do I get the image shrunk down so that I can see the tops and bottoms (and sides I presume too) of the computer screen when displayed on the Hitachi? Do i need to open up the box and play with the trimpots?

Help!

Mr Bob

06-12-09, 02:14 AM

brianbloom

06-12-09, 03:14 AM

Re: computer display on s715

I played a bit more with it. Interestingly, when the computer is booting and showing the text-based BIOS screens, those fit just fine on the TV - no overscan. But once Windows loads (or X-Windows in linux), then the higher resolution screens simply push off the edges (all sides).

The linux machine I built defaults to 1920x1080 as "native resolution" on the Hitachi ("Model Hitachi PTV Model DFP-0, Chip location: Internal, Signal: TMDS") with a flickery 60 Hz refresh rate. I can set other resolutions (like 1280x720, 1440x480 (?!), 800x600) and so on, but those just make the pixels on the screen larger and still have the edges of the screen clipped off. So it doesn't appear to just be a resolution setting on the computer that's needed to resolve this.

Do we know what settings I *should* be trying to run at for HTPC purposes?. I'll have to look into the "shimming" you mentioned. I kinda thought this would just "work".

*sigh*

Mr Bob

06-12-09, 03:08 PM

ALL CRT RPTVs come with overscan, it's endemic to the genre. The ceiling pj CRTs don't, they can give you all the scanning you need. But the RPTV versions were not so graciously designed. They all skimped on what it would take to really do it right, they fidured Joe Sixpack really didn't care, and they were right. But those same displays CAN do it right, once properly set up. O'scan redux is one of the most popular of my operations, in my calibrations of CRT RPTVs.

Most PCs can size the content correctly to fit the screen, or you can resize whatever you have with a Lumagen processor.

Just know that reducing o'scan is not for the faint of heart. Even if you do go in and alter the sizing pots - MARK THEIR POSITIONS FIRST, IF YOU DO, SO YOU CAN GET BACK TO THE GARDEN, YOU MAY NEED A GOOD BREAD CRUMBS TRAIL! - the hosing it does to your picture requires lots of dedicated work, to get it back to being coherent. Reducing the o'scan is definitely a desirable mod, and worth the effort.

But again, not for the faint of heart. I do it all the time so it's no big deal to me, but for a newbie, you can paint yourself into a corner REAL fast on this seemingly - but not! - innocuous op.

b