I just got my set yesterday. It's great so far. Geometry seems nearly perfect out of the box. So far I've eyeballed contrast and brightness for the tuner and touched up the convergence at bit.

Analog SD looks surprisingly good. I was expecting a disaster like most HD sets, but I was very surprised.

I found a few unencrypted HD channels on cable, and they look awesome!

A few questions for the Hitachi experts:

1) How do you get into the service menu?

2) Can you adjust the focus for seperate sections of the screen or is it one control for the entire screen?

3) How do you properly set the brighness and contrast for the tuner inputs? (How do you feed test patterns to the TV over the NTSC/ATSC input?)

Has anyone with a 5xs715 hooked up a CableCard? Note 2 on page 11 in the Hitachi operations manual says that "Antenna B will not be available when a CableCard is plugged in." This would imply that you cannot switch back and forth between an over-the-air signal and the cable service without unplugging the CableCard. Inconvenient to say the least, so I asked someone at Hitachi and they confirmed this is true. But Cox Cable in Fairfax VA says in their FAQ not to unplug the Cable Card once it's installed and if you do, it could take as long as five minutes for it to revalidate itself. Like most cable systems, Cox doesn't carry all the local digital channels, including PBS and WB -- so these stations would essentially be unavailable to those on cable even though the set has an over-the-air tuner. I'm hoping this isn't true -- it's a critical factor in whether I buy the unit or not. Anyone have any experience to share?

I'm not sure about that. I don't have a CableCARD yet. When/If I get one I will let you know. Hopefully someone else will chime in.

I do know that Antenna B will only work for OTA channels (ATSC and NTSC), not cable.

If the manual is correct, you could use a RG-59 switch to hook them both up to Antenna A and flip change them when you want to watch OTA (tuner presets could be a problem though).

Usually, a moderator creates or dubs a thread "official"...they are real picky about this in the HDTV forums, but perhaps more leniant here. Just an FYI

I suggested looking through the wealth of information on the previous F and S models and seeing if the info applies to the new sets. Start in the popular threads (link in sig).

Originally posted by Mfusick
Hitachi tweaks links

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=184842
Red push

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=181474
Manual focus

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=181475
How to measure resolution with chart by Mfusick

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=181535
Little blue button

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=180499
How good can convergence get?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=179964
Fixing geometry

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=179789
Overscan talk

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=179285
overscan and static focus now what?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=179288
Picture of overscan and that little blue button

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=179289
Picture of the trimpots

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=179288
Overscan and sky blue button

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=179287
Picture of tv with front panel off

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=177851
Jig screen

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=162558
Manual convergence

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=162956
Overscan old post
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=163148
What is calibration?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=164394
Post

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/brandspecific/hitachi/hitachi_tips.html
KEOHI


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=169148
another overscan post

The color decoder can be modified by the following parameters in the service menu.

RY-PH-4 Phase (Hue)
RY-PH-F Phase (Hue)
RY-PH-G Phase (Hue)
R/B-GA4 Gain (Saturation)
R/B-GAF Gain (Saturation)
R/B-GAG Gain (Saturation)
GY-PH-4 Phase (Hue)
GY-PH-F Phase (Hue)
GY-PH-G Phase (Hue)
G/B-GA4 Gain (Saturation)
G/B-GAF Gain (Saturation)
G/B-GAG Gain (Saturation)

To get into the service menu you press input + power. This can be kinda tricky, you have to release the input button right after you hit the power button.

To get to the above parameters, go up through the service mode menu until you get to the ISF Mode menu... Highlight and Right Arrow...

Page down a few pages and you will see the above parameters...

The 4,F,and G suffixes correlate to the different modes 480I,480P,1080I respectively.

Using the AVIA color bars you can decrease RED push by modifying the the parameters that begin with R. And likewise you can make modifications to the Green portion of the decoder by modifying the parameters prefixing with G.


This is just some of the stuff I found.....

There is alot more if you need it.

Originally posted by Marc Alexander
Usually, a moderator creates or dubs a thread "official"...they are real picky about this in the HDTV forums, but perhaps more leniant here. Just an FYI

I suggested looking through the wealth of information on the previous F and S models and seeing if the info applies to the new sets. Start in the popular threads (link in sig).
It is in quotes for a reason :p

I'll have to see what I can't figure out from the other thread.

Originally posted by Marc Alexander
Service menu suffixes

FWX20b/UWX20b/SWX20b/TWX20b/XWX20b/F500
4 - 480i Composite, S-Video
F - 480i/480p Component
G - 720p/1080i Component HDTV

S500/S700 (from BillG)
First Letter:
3-NTSC [480i Composite, S-Video]
D-SDTV [480i/480p Component]
E-HDTV [720p/1080i Component HDTV, DVI 480p]

Second Letter:
H-High Temp
M-Medium Temp
S-Standard Temp
B-Black and White Temp The suffixes may be different on the new models. Let us know once you get into the SM (my technique: hold input with the set off then press power to power the set on, release simultaneously).

Just FYI, a lot of those links don't work due to archiving.

Please Note: It may be an ARCHIVED thread or post you are looking for so the url needs to begin with "archive" or "archive2" and not "www". (Example.... archive.avsforum.com).

How do people like the protective screen? I ask because there was some talk elsewhere about how this set didn't have the "anti-glare" screen on the S500/700.

So, any problems with light/glare/etc?

Also, is this set on wheels, as the S500 was?

The set is on wheels and it moves smoothly. I have not had any problems with glare and I have an entire wall of mirrors behind my viewing position. My performance was also great out of the box and I'll definitely tweak it a bit more but I could use some advice on how to tweak the day vs. night settings. If you tweaked each to DVE specs wouldn't you end up with the two of the same settings?

It is on wheels. The screen is not anti-glare. The reflections on it are annoying. I will probably seriously consider removing it.

Originally posted by memphismafioso
My performance was also great out of the box and I'll definitely tweak it a bit more but I could use some advice on how to tweak the day vs. night settings. If you tweaked each to DVE specs wouldn't you end up with the two of the same settings?
Not necessarily. Your brightness and contrast settings could be different if you calibrate one at night in the dark, and the other when the room is bright.

Originally posted by memphismafioso
If you tweaked each to DVE specs wouldn't you end up with the two of the same settings? Yes

The Day and Night modes allow you to set one to standard with DVE and the other to personal tastes.

I got it working via HDMI from the DVI output on my PC.

You can get into the Service Menu by pressing the input button, then pressing the power button while still holding down the input button and letting go of both at the same time.

Here are two pictures of the guts of a 57S715.

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php?photo=9319&sort=1&cat=500

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php?photo=9320&sort=1&cat=500

Can you take a few pic's of it running hd and dvd's? Thanks joe

What is this HD stretch? Can you stretch a 4x3 hd image to fit your 16x9 set. Like nbc and abc when they send a 4x3 show?

Originally posted by iSSues
What is this HD stretch? Can you stretch a 4x3 hd image to fit your 16x9 set. Like nbc and abc when they send a 4x3 show?
Yes, it will do 4:3 expanded on 720p and 1080i material.

Originally posted by iSSues
Can you take a few pic's of it running hd and dvd's? Thanks joe
I can take a few pictures for you later when CBS gets some HDTV on (to me the Olympics look kinda soft).

Someone had asked earlier if the 57S715 would come apart in 2 pieces. From the sheet that comes with the set it seems like the top and the bottom are seperatable.

Here are some picture (not sure what they'll show you). The camera was forced to expose them at D6500. I also had problems with the camera picking up moire from the screen.

http://stereodude.cjb.net/Hitachi/hits_dvd_01.jpg
http://stereodude.cjb.net/Hitachi/hits_dvd_02.jpg
http://stereodude.cjb.net/Hitachi/hits_dvd_03.jpg

http://stereodude.cjb.net/Hitachi/hits_hdtv_01.jpg
http://stereodude.cjb.net/Hitachi/hits_hdtv_02.jpg
http://stereodude.cjb.net/Hitachi/hits_hdtv_03.jpg

I'm in the Metro Detroit area as well.

Are you happy with your 715? I currently have a 51s500 that I really like, I just want to go bigger. The 57" version of the new 715 looks very tempting.

Are you happy with the 715?

Originally posted by arbleb
Are you happy with the 715?
It's not perfect (you can't manually delete or add channels to the channel lists and other little things), but I'm pretty happy with it. I'm interested to see how the geometry settles. Right now things are pretty good. I had the front panel open today and was messing with the focus and screen controls. I think I have it pretty well D6500 balanced (at least at 40 IRE).

Thanks alot:) I'm pretty much sold on this set. Now if a sotre where i live can get it in stock in 2 weeks i'll be good.

Stereodude -

Nice pictures! Could you take a few pictures from a distance, which show the entire front of the set and maybe one from the side? I'd like to see the true colors of the cabinet and how narrow the new cabinet is. The Hitachi web site shows a darker grey color (nice) for this model. However, the product sheet (PDF) looks silver.

BTW, were in the Detroit area did you purchase the Hitachi?

Thanks,

Mark

Originally posted by markjv
BTW, were in the Detroit area did you purchase the Hitachi?
I got it at ABC Warehouse.

I'll get you some extra pictures in a little bit.

Here are some extra pictures.

The set is definitely silver, as the PDF shows. It is not darker like the Hitachi web site shows.

I haven't taken the blue masking tape off the corners yet.

D6500 balanced:
http://stereodude.cjb.net/Hitachi/overview_d6500.jpg

Tungsten (Incandescent) balanced:
http://stereodude.cjb.net/Hitachi/overview_d2850.jpg

Side Tungsten (Incandescent) balanced (Sorry about the speaker in the way):
http://stereodude.cjb.net/Hitachi/overview_side_d2850.jpg

Stereodude, You can go to Menu, Channel Manager and turn off scan for each channel (same as deleting). The add channel feature is not necessary since scanned channels are automatically added. If it can't scan it, there's no need to add it.

Originally posted by promike
Stereodude, You can go to Menu, Channel Manager and turn off scan for each channel (same as deleting). The add channel feature is not necessary since scanned channels are automatically added. If it can't scan it, there's no need to add it.
Thanks for the tip, but it sure wasn't very clear in the manual that you could do it. It's a bit convoluted too.

FYI: To anyone else reading the thread. You have to go into the Channel List and set the Scan column to Off instead of On. (Menu --> Chan. Manger --> Channel List)

Well, I got the 57s715 and it is going back. HD and SD TV looked wonderful but I did have some serious problems.

1. The screen does have too much glare for my tastes
2. DVDs look horrible. There is a lot of noise and edge halos. Everything looks "processed".

The dvd thing is the big problem for me as 90% of what I watch are dvds. I attribute it to the upconversion.

I have turned of all of the edge enhancement and picture enhancement options and calibrated using DVE. I also tried changing from 1080i to 540p and doing the upconversion in my PC dvd player. Still sucks.

THEN

It died the day I got it.

I am sending it back and investigating Toshiba. I had one before and was happy. I know it does 540p upconversion too so this time I am going to put it through the wringer at the store.

Originally posted by HyPyke
Well, I got the 57s715 and it is going back. HD and SD TV looked wonderful but I did have some serious problems.

1. The screen does have too much glare for my tastes
2. DVDs look horrible. There is a lot of noise and edge halos. Everything looks "processed".

The dvd thing is the big problem for me as 90% of what I watch are dvds. I attribute it to the upconversion.

I have turned of all of the edge enhancement and picture enhancement options and calibrated using DVE. I also tried changing from 1080i to 540p and doing the upconversion in my PC dvd player. Still sucks.
What DVD player are you using?

Did you turn off the Edge Enhancement? What is the sharpness set to?

I've played back DVDs from my HTPC via nVDVD 1920x1080i (DVI to HDMI) and via my MyHD-100 card via component (480p and 1080i) and I didn't find any problems with noise or edge halos on DVDs.

I've found that some DVDs look pretty close to HDTV.

Originally posted by HyPyke
Well, I got the 57s715 and it is going back. HD and SD TV looked wonderful but I did have some serious problems.

1. The screen does have too much glare for my tastes
2. DVDs look horrible. There is a lot of noise and edge halos. Everything looks "processed"....

THEN

It died the day I got it.


It seems possible that whatever "killed" your TV on day one may also have been responsible for the poor dvd play.

As I don't have this set, I am interested to see what others who do have to say.

Originally posted by Stereodude
What DVD player are you using?

Did you turn off the Edge Enhancement? What is the sharpness set to?

I've played back DVDs from my HTPC via nVDVD 1920x1080i (DVI to HDMI) and via my MyHD-100 card via component (480p and 1080i) and I didn't find any problems with noise or edge halos on DVDs.

I've found that some DVDs look pretty close to HDTV.

I used my toshiba prog scan player via component, My HTPC via component and DVI (component via x-card)

I turned sharpness down to between 30 and 43 at times. Edge enhancement was always off. Don't get me wrong it is not as if something was wrong but not up to the quality I was used to. I was very impressed with SD and HD. The dvd image was just digital and not as filmlike as my old Toshi'. Lots of noise. It is possible that whatever killed the set caused the dvd issue but I doubt it. I also had it plugged into a beefy APC ups by itself yet the convergance grid was jumping and vibrating like crazy. The 51 and 57 at the store did the same thing.

I have a Hitachi 51S715 and have been viewing DVDs from my HTPC and they are very, very good.

I agree with the glare, though. It is the one big negative for me with this set.

I have had the 57s715 for almost a week now. DVD hooked up with progressive component gives me great PQ. I watched Alien last night and I had always thought of it as kind of a dark movie, however this time the dark scenes were filled with wonderful glistening bright highlights that made the experience awesome. My DirectTV ultimate TV picture for SD is pretty good for some channels but some channels stink. Very jaggy and I even saw some motion blur. MY connection for the SD is only an S cable so hopefully If I upgrade to a DirectTV HD receiver with component or HDMI then it will improve the SD signal.

My set is too blue in the 30 IRE and especially the 20 IRE and below range. It's pretty close to D6500 in the brighter greys. How do I go about adjusting the blue for only those lower IRE intensities?

It's been awhile since I've posted anything, but I did get my 57s715 this past Monday. But we also started moving that day, and I had no idea what I was in for. Between working a regular job, and moving I had no time to sit down and really check it out.

Tonight was the first time that I've had some time to really look at it, and I still can really only give you first impressions type of an opinion.

First of all it looks great right out of the box. I have it hooked up to DirecTV via a HDTivo. HD looks fantastic, and SD looks pretty good on most. I've only played a few DVD's, but these look great as well. At first I thought it looked soft, but I think I had something set wrong on my DVD player, and I had all the enhancements on. Not sure changing which one helped the most, but it looks better now.

The only thing I've really done is turn down the Contrast and turn enhancements off. I'm not a videophile, and this is my first HD set so I'm a complete newbie. I'm having it ISF calibrated in 11 days so I'll know more then.

I was concerned that I'd be distracted by the silver cabinet, but that's not a problem at all. I think the reason it isn't a problem is because there is a black strip all around the screen, and this seems to "frame" the picture so that all your attention is there and you never notice the silver until you turn it off.

Viewing angles are very good. While not as good as a GWIII it isn't that far behind.

I would say glare is a minimal problem. I have blinds in all of the windows in the room so even during the day it isn't a problem. At night it is better of course to not have the light on directly in the area where the TV is. But my kitchen is adjoining my family room, and I can have all the kitchen lights on I want and it's no problem.

Don't ask me about the whole scaling and upconversion thing because I have no idea. I just transmit everything from the HD Tivo in 1080i and be done with it.

Overall I'm very pleased, and keep in mind this is just out of the box. I went back to a CC after having it for a few days, and looking around at the LCd's, HLP's, etc., I was very glad I made the choice I did.

As I get more time to play with it, and especially after having it ISF calibrated I'll be posting more.

Walter

WalterC try to get atleast 100 hours on the set before haveing it ISF'ed.

Is there a "burn-in" or "break-in" period for a CRT where the convergence will settle in and stop shifting every few hours.

I notice that my set's convergence drifts over time. I have been leaving it on most of the time when I'm home and awake, and every few hours I have to make a few tweaks to the convergence grid to keep things tightly aligned. After powering it off for a few hours and turning it back on it takes about 30 minutes for it to get back close to the point I left it at when I turned it on. However, it isn't quite the same as when it was powered off.

Does this eventually stop?

Originally posted by Stereodude
My set is too blue in the 30 IRE and especially the 20 IRE and below range. It's pretty close to D6500 in the brighter greys. How are you determining this?

Originally posted by Stereodude
I had the front panel open today and was messing with the focus and screen controls. It is generally wise to never touch the SCREEN pots. All adjustments to grayscale should be done in the service menu where you can write down your initial values. DRVs are for the upper IREs and CUTs are for the lower.

Originally posted by promike
Stereodude, You can go to Menu, Channel Manager and turn off scan for each channel (same as deleting). The add channel feature is not necessary since scanned channels are automatically added. If it can't scan it, there's no need to add it.

Unless you're pulling in HDTV OTA, and your antenna is on a rotor.

Am I correct in understanding that there is no way to manually add channels with this set? Barring that, can one select a channel directly via number?

Thanks,

Matt

Originally posted by Marc Alexander
DRVs are for the upper IREs and CUTs are for the lower. How about SCREEN pots? One person said they are coarse DRVs for upper IREs in the other thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4187394#post4187394).
But I thought they are similar to CUTs for lower IREs. Someone else said it just affects all IREs. Could you confirm it? Thanks!

Originally posted by C.Y.
How about SCREEN pots? One person said they are coarse DRVs for upper IREs in the other thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4187394#post4187394).
But I thought they are similar to CUTs for lower IREs. Someone else said it just affects all IREs. Could you confirm it? Thanks!
They definitely affect all IREs.

Originally posted by Marc Alexander
It is generally wise to never touch the SCREEN pots. All adjustments to grayscale should be done in the service menu where you can write down your initial values. DRVs are for the upper IREs and CUTs are for the lower.
I would think that if the DRVs are for the upper and the CUTs are for the lower, the SCREEN pots would be a good tool to set the middle. Set the SCREEN pots to give the middle IRE values to give a D6500 balance and then use the DRVs and CUTs to dial in the two ends of the scale.

I only changed the Red SCREEN control and I'm pretty sure I put it back to about where it was.

Originally posted by Stereodude
I would think that if the DRVs are for the upper and the CUTs are for the lower, the SCREEN pots would be a good tool to set the middle. Set the SCREEN pots to give the middle IRE values to give a D6500 balance and then use the DRVs and CUTs to dial in the two ends of the scale. It sounds good, but unfornately is not the case. What test equipment are you using to determing D65000 balance?

The SCREEN pots are for setting black cutoff and are essentially the same as the CUTs in the SM. The CUTs and DRVs are interactive so you will see an effect over the entire IRE range.

You should avoid touching the screen POTS as they are so sensitive it is impossible to put it right back where it was, which is why you should use the service menu only.

Originally posted by Marc Alexander
How are you determining this?
Well dark sections of the screen looked blue to my eyes for starters. So I set about trying to quantify it.

Laugh if you want at my method, but I took several pictures of the TV with my Canon EOS 10D camera on a tripod set dead center to the screen from about 9-10 feet back. It was during late night with all the lights off so there was no other light to affect the measurements. I took pictures of a greyscale ramp (from white to black), and 20, 30, and 40IRE paterns.

I took the files from the camera ( CRW / Canon RAW files) and converted them to 16 bit per channel TIFF files and forced a 6500K color setting during the conversion. Then I can examine the RGB data in the file for the grey on the screen.

I realize my EOS 10D may not be as accurate as thousands of dollars worth of test equipment, but the numbers it puts out correlate with what what I see. After all, a camera is supposed to capture color and luma accurately. When the camera says I have a good D6500 balance to a grey, it looks very neutral to my eye.

Ultimately it may not get me exactly to D6500, but I should be able to get the color much more uniform at all IRE levels the with nothing.

Originally posted by Marc Alexander
The SCREEN pots are for setting black cutoff and are essentially the same as the CUTs in the SM. The CUTs and DRVs are interactive so you will see an effect over the entire IRE range.

You should avoid touching the screen POTS as they are so sensitive it is impossible to put it right back where it was, which is why you should use the service menu only.
Turning the SCREEN pots most definitely affects all IRE levels, so how can they be just for setting the black cutoff?

So, given that I can't necessarily set it back the way it was, what is my best strategy? Dial the blue back (which I didn't change) to get more neutral dark greys, or leave them as is and dial the blue down with the CUTs?

Stereodude, your method is quite interesting and definitely scientific. Probably much better than just working by eye.

Like I said, the SREEN pots and CUTs are essentially the same (sets the cutoff voltage for each CRT). The problem is that the SCREEN pots, CUTs, and DRVs do affect the entire IRE range as you observed...they are simply centered at the LOW and HIGH end of the range. This means that you must go through several iterations to get a grayscale close to D6500 across the entire IRE range. Let's say you get 30 IRE at D6500 then move to 80 IRE and get that a D6500 by adjusting DRVs...when you go back to 30 IRE you will find that it probably is not where you left it. This is why a constantly updating test device is needed for calibrating grayscale (and it still can take hours). It may literally take you forever to get things right using your camera method.

Originally posted by Marc Alexander
This is why a constantly updating test device is needed for calibrating grayscale (and it still can take hours). It may literally take you forever to get things right using your camera method.
I guess we'll see what happens :D I think I can rough tune by eye and verify/final tweak with the camera.

For now I will leave the SCREEN pots alone and use the service menu to tweak unless I run out of adjustment with the CUTs.

On a slightly unrelated note, how do you get the set into the service menu while it's warmed up. If you power it on cold into the service menu it will have to sit for a while to warm up with the service menu on the screen (risking burn in?)?

If it is already warmed up, you don't have to wait for it to warm up if you simply powered it down and right back up to get into SM.

Originally posted by Marc Alexander
If it is already warmed up, you don't have to wait for it to warm up if you simply powered it down and right back up to get into SM.
Isn't it bad to cycle the power quickly (or does not matter with CRTs)?

Anyone have a 57s715 in the ATL area that I might be able to take a look at? I would love to be able to determine if it is my set or if I am just seeing stuff that other people ignore.

Well, I got it dialed in about as close as I can at the moment. It's certainly not D6500 across the board. It's about as centered around D6500 as I can get it for now. The black's don't look blue anymore, so I'm happy. :)

Stereodude,

If the grayscale looks good in the low IRE range, then go back to your user brightness control and check it again.
Changing the CUTS affects the brightness.

It's good practice to write down any SM values for later reference if they're changed.

Good viewing.

Thanks for the tip.

I checked the brightness again and found out it needed adjusting. 43% was dead on last night, and after adjusting the color balance, 50% is now dead on.

This set just keep looking better and better.

I would think that if the DRVs are for the upper and the CUTs are for the lower, the SCREEN pots would be a good tool to set the middle. Set the SCREEN pots to give the middle IRE values to give a D6500 balance and then use the DRVs and CUTs to dial in the two ends of the scale.

The Screen pots are identical to CUTS. However, you should not randomly adjust these as it can cause damage.

Stereodude,

I don't understand the camera method. You took pictures of a grayscale and forced them to D65K. How do you know that was accurate? Are you trying to use the computer display as an optical comparator? How do you know the computer display is D65K?


Bill

Originally posted by gambrelw
The Screen pots are identical to CUTS. However, you should not randomly adjust these as it can cause damage.

Stereodude,

I don't understand the camera method. You took pictures of a grayscale and forced them to D65K. How do you know that was accurate? Are you trying to use the computer display as an optical comparator? How do you know the computer display is D65K?

By the way, I can tell from your spreadsheet your values won't produce D65K.

Bill
1) The spreadsheet aren't mine. I've already said in another thread I don't think the method is correct.

In short, I can take a picture of a grey object with my camera and the camera will tell me what color temperature that object is. Further I can process the raw data from the camera's imager on the PC and force the data to be interpreted as if white were 6500K. If after forcing a D6500 balance, the TV was generating a true D6500 grey on the screen it would have an even amount of each color. For example I would see 128R, 128G, and 128B and know that it was D6500. If I see it has 120R, 128G, and 135B I know I need to bump the red and drop the blue a little to get to D6500.

I don't know with absolute certainty that the camera is accurate. It has a reputation of being quite faithful in color reproduction. However, what I do know with absolute certainty is that by using the camera I can make the TV much more consistent in it's color reproduction at different IRE values.

The bottom line is that I was able to remove the blue cast at low IRE values and align the color much more consistently across a variety of IRE values much more accurately than trying to tune by eye and it didn't cost me anything beyond some time.

I just realized the spreadsheet was done by someone else :)

As far as the camera, I would like to see some data. Sounds interesting, but there are a lot of factors involved that could affect the end results. Hell, if this works it would be a great benefit as the pods many are using with digital displays aren't fairing to well.

Bill

Originally posted by gambrelw
As far as the camera, I would like to see some data. Sounds interesting, but there are a lot of factors involved that could affect the end results.

Bill
What kind of data do you want to see? I posted pictures earlier in the thread where I processed the same raw data from the camera with two different color balances. These are the same picture processed two different ways. Once for the incandecent light in the room, and the 2nd picture to 6500K.

http://stereodude.cjb.net/Hitachi/overview_d2850.jpg
http://stereodude.cjb.net/Hitachi/overview_d6500.jpg

Unfortunately, pictures won't do me a lot of good. As a start, I would just like to see your grayscale settings. Send those to me in a PM as I don't want anyone screwing up their displays trying them. Those are only a starting point. The only way I could truely reference them is to get someone there with a color analyzer to verify. But, I can get an idea by your settings if you are in the ballpark. There is a great deal of variation, but after calibrating many hitachi's I know where the range is.

You can also let me know a little more how this software/camera process works. I am not familiar with it.

Bill

I really want this set. Just wish CC or sears got it :mad: This is my first rpcrt and would like the 30 days money back or trade up. I had my heart set on a gw3 or gw4 and really don't have the extra grand to spend right now and can't see paying for light bulbs every year or two. Plus who knows who will be the last TV standing DLp, LCD, lcos and plasma. That's why i'm getting a rpcrt. Mature, One of the best pic around. Does anyone know if you talk to the store and ask them if i could have 30 days and money back will they go for it??

Issues,
I think that a stated 30 day return policy, as well as low price guarantee, is pretty standard at a brick and mortar store so it should be no problem.

Trying to bump this thing along for the non ISF literate. What does everyone think about the color temperature setting that has standard, high or medium? I think the day setting uses the high (I don't care for that) and the night setting is standard color.
Also, I have not been able to view my Denon AV on screen display, I am not sure if my connection is not right or if there is some sort of limitation with the 57s715. I tried connecting the Denon out via s-cable to the 57s715 input and also to the Direct tv receiver monitor in.

I balanced the color out on the standard setting. I thought it looked the best from the start.

Do these newer sets have a Black & White color temp?

I am now seeing red and blue blooms in the lower corners of the set. Red on the right, blue on the left. Usually this is during 2.35 material.

Originally posted by Marc Alexander
Do these newer sets have a Black & White color temp?

I'm almost sure I read in the spec sheet that they had 4 color selections, which is the same as mine, and mine does.

Marc,

According the the service manual, they still have a black and white setting.

Bill

Yes they do, sorry I forgot to mention that one. Not sure what that is for, like it was posted above I think the standard looks the best. I got my Direct TV Samsung HD receiver installed today. The SD looks alot better, although I still find myself watching the HD content over a SD program that I would normally choose just because the PQ is so much better. I have the new receiver hooked up with component cables. It has a DVI but not an HDMI. I was wondering if the PQ would be better if I get a DVI to HDMI converter plug (I assume they make one?) instead of the component hookup?

Originally posted by HyPyke
I am now seeing red and blue blooms in the lower corners of the set. Red on the right, blue on the left. Usually this is during 2.35 material.

I had a little red on the lower right in 4:3 stretch mode, but it went away after calibrating that area only in the 117 point calibration grid. All other factory settings were great (AVIA disk did little to help), and Magic Focus did it's Magic.

Originally posted by Marc Alexander
Do these newer sets have a Black & White color temp?
Yes they do.

Originally posted by HyPyke
I am now seeing red and blue blooms in the lower corners of the set. Red on the right, blue on the left. Usually this is during 2.35 material.
Bring up the 117 point convergence grid and go to work on it.

Originally posted by Fourseahorsemen
Yes they do, sorry I forgot to mention that one. Not sure what that is for, like it was posted above I think the standard looks the best. I got my Direct TV Samsung HD receiver installed today. The SD looks alot better, although I still find myself watching the HD content over a SD program that I would normally choose just because the PQ is so much better. I have the new receiver hooked up with component cables. It has a DVI but not an HDMI. I was wondering if the PQ would be better if I get a DVI to HDMI converter plug (I assume they make one?) instead of the component hookup?
They do make adapters, but they're not cheap. You can probably get a 6' DVI to HDMI cable from e-bay for less money than the adapter.

**** Was having problems with the volume control from the Comcast remote not working..

Called Comcast Tech Support and here is the fix.

push the [CABLE] button
hold down [SETUP] till it flashes the CABLE light twice
enter 999

Why is this set so hard to find? Sears,cc dont carry this set.:mad:

Has anyone gotten a CableCARD for a 5xS715 yet?

My two local providers aren't much help. Wide Open West says they don't support CableCARD and don't plan to. Comcast supports CableCARD, but not for anything but 4 Panasonic sets so far. They're supposed to e-mail when they support my set.

Originally posted by iSSues
Why is this set so hard to find? Sears,cc dont carry this set.:mad:

I just ordered a 57S715 from Sears in Hawaii. The stock number for the 57" is 54744 and 54734 for the 51" set. The only bad part is that is that it won't be available for delivery until October 3'rd. :mad:


BIGLC

Originally posted by Stereodude
Has anyone gotten a CableCARD for a 5xS715 yet?

My two local providers aren't much help. Wide Open West says they don't support CableCARD and don't plan to. Comcast supports CableCARD, but not for anything but 4 Panasonic sets so far. They're supposed to e-mail when they support my set.

My friend put his in last week, and I will be getting mine shortly. We both have 51s715's, and Comcast is the provider. They carry the cards for Hitachi slots. Reception is that same as with the set top box, but there is no 2 way communication, so no TV guide, no PPV movies, but it still costs the same as a set top box hook-up:eek:

I have a cable card installed in a Hitachi 51S715 through Comcast in Livermore, CA. Works great but not much HDTV fare.

Hmm sounds like the Comcast person I was talking to didn't know what they were talking about.

Any recent thoughts on these sets, from those who have reported so far and had a bit more time to consider, or others who have obtained it but not spoken up?

I ask because I am likely finally to buy a set in the next week, and this set is my leading candidate.

I would be especially grateful for comments on HD/non-HD sports (football) through D*, and other thoughts related to D*. I have the Sunday Ticket.

Also, I do a bit of PS2 gaming. I know PS2 might not be the best on big screens, but how is it overall on these sets (I would go 57").

I am not likely to be a big tweaker, so OOTB is pretty important. I am willing to try my hand at Avia, though I have never used it.

I appreciate any comments.

I've got a 51s715 on the way, and I guess I should upgrade my dvd player. Right now I have a non-progressive Panasonic that about 2.5 years old. It is a decent DVD player.

What are the current owners of the s715 and f510 using as a dvd player. Are you outputting the signal at 480p? using HDMI for 720 or 1080?

How does the tv look if 480i is used instead of 480p (i.e., how good of a job converting 480i does the tv do?)

Thanks for any input.

Brandon

I am not a techno guy. Bought my set 2 weeks ago and just love it. Seems like quite a few News shows and sport shows in HDTV.

Bought mine at Video Only and got a 5 yr warranty free as well as shipping. Paid what was mark at the shop and have done some searching around on pricing. Can't beat the deal I got.

Just ordered it from sears. They will not have the set in the store but you can order it. In this thread there is the stock number for sears. It will be coming sept 10. The best thing is i got 30 days to make my mind up. They gave me 10% off the price which is 2200.00. One happy day for me.

Originally posted by skro
I've got a 51s715 on the way, and I guess I should upgrade my dvd player. Right now I have a non-progressive Panasonic that about 2.5 years old. It is a decent DVD player.

What are the current owners of the s715 and f510 using as a dvd player. Are you outputting the signal at 480p? using HDMI for 720 or 1080?

How does the tv look if 480i is used instead of 480p (i.e., how good of a job converting 480i does the tv do?)

Thanks for any input.

Brandon

I just added the Sammy 841 universal player to my 51s715 via HDMI. I like the 841 set to 1080i, along with the TV, for progressive DVD's. The 715 is arguably one of the best for SD and 480i viewing, but's it's well worth the ~$180 for the 841 to get progressive scan (that $ includes a DVI cable but you'll need an HDMI adaptor) IF you also want SACD and DVD-a capability. I use a Denon 3805 receiver which can handle those audio formats. The 841 can be set to 48kHz if your receiver is not capable. The remote is very directional sensitive and not back-lit (a common complaint, some people say distance is an issue too), but at 12' it's OK for me. I have no complaints or issues with it, just remember to hook it up with component cables first, then set the output to DVI, then hook up the DVI/HDMI cable. Some people complained about white crush on earlier build dates but I do not see this with a June build date.

I have been eyeing this tv for a while and had a couple of questions:

Are the HDMI and component input shared like the previous Hitachi models?

Have the stretch modes improved - how is the one that stretches 4:3 HD?

Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by iSSues
Just ordered it from sears. They will not have the set in the store but you can order it. In this thread there is the stock number for sears. It will be coming sept 10. The best thing is i got 30 days to make my mind up. They gave me 10% off the price which is 2200.00. One happy day for me.

I went to Sears today, and while I didn't order I also can confirm that the Sears number earlier in this thread (by BigLC I think) is in the computer. I can have it by September 16...This is actually somewhat important it seems because my local Sears at least couldn't invert the Hitachi model number to get the Sears number, and hence were helpless. Until, that is, I provided them with their own Sears number...

By the way, another non-chain merchant said that $200 mail-in rebates were available for the 57S715. So, people shopping from smaller local stores might want to inquire about it, FWIW.

Originally posted by toothy mako

By the way, another non-chain merchant said that $200 mail-in rebates were available for the 57S715. So, people shopping from smaller local stores might want to inquire about it, FWIW.




I contacted Hitachi and there was no rebate available which makes sense. This is a brand new model and why would they offer some type of rebate this early?

I don't know. This is what I was told by a sales person with whom I interacted on two occasions. It is possible he is mistaken/lying, but that seems somewhat unlikely, at least to me given the totality of my interaction with this person.

An alternative possibility is that Hitachi offers some form of mail-in rebate through some of its distribution arms, but doesn't "admit it". This is perhaps more likely if the rebate can be claimed by either the end consumer or the distro arm. For example, perhaps this is like a "manufacturer to dealer" cash incentive in the auto industry. If the consumer doesn't figure it out, the dealer gets it. Otherwise, the consumer might get the discount. Either way, Hitachi pays.

There's a lot of competition in this space, so it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that some discounts are available. Still, this is clearly rampant speculation. Perhaps someone who is more informed about the details of how retail works here will comment.

toothy mako and BIGLC
I got my my 51S715 at a substantial discount from list from Video Only. It was preordered prior to the first deliveries but seems like the price on these is somewhat soft.

A similar price can be had from a seller on Ebay, though I'm not recommending that route.

It might also be useful to keep in mind the long-run view, from Hitachi's perspective. With these sets, anyway, Hitachi seems to be giving smaller retailers "first dibs" at selling. Giving such retailers extra discounts of some sort may be a possibility, if the salesperson I mentioned was correct.

Anyway, the reason this makes sense from a long-run perspective is that Hitachi may well be better off ensuring that smaller retailers are willing/able to carry its future products, thereby limiting the power of other retailers. What manufacturer wants to live in a world where the only retail choices are CC and Sears?

Originally posted by Kubrickain
I have been eyeing this tv for a while and had a couple of questions:

Are the HDMI and component input shared like the previous Hitachi models?

Have the stretch modes improved - how is the one that stretches 4:3 HD?

Thanks in advance.

One component input is shared with the one HDMI.
One is stand-alone.
Both components accept everything from 480i to 1080i

There is also a cableTV card slot which reduces the need for a 2nd HDMI depending on your cable provider.

Stretch 4:3 SD is OK; better than any LCD or DLP, and many on here say Hitachi does the best job with it. I won't have HD cable for a couple more weeks.

I have had the 57s715 for a few weeks now. I just got the Avia disk tonight so I will post again after I use it. I have it set up with component inputs to both my DVD and Samsung HD D*TV receiver, but I have a DVI to HDMI adapter coming in the mail. I added a monster power bar and did notice the sound was cleaner and when I went to calibrate again with the 117 point calibration the white lines were nice and steady and not jumpy.

As far as programing, Hd looks awesome for sports. The Olympics were great and the Pre-season game I saw was a very sharp picture. I am not sure if it was their top of the line NFL HD fead however, since the sound was not coming in as dolby. I have not had a chance to see HD on ESPN yet but I will take in some college games this weekend. Baseball in SD has been very disappointing. It is just not as crisp as my old 36" CRT. you basically have to live with it for the added picture size and the awsome HD picture you get. I know alot of the NFL games and the MLB playoffs will be in HD at least. One reason I got the CRT instead of the DLP or LCD was worry about motion blur. This set still has some blur (even in HD) when an athlete dives into the pool for example. Overall I am very happy with the picture.

The blur is not in the set it's in the source. Motion artifacts were a big problem with the olympics hd coverage.

The Olympics had a terrible problem with motion artifacts. Try watching something on CBS (best OTA) or Discovery HD Theater.

I agree the only time I have seen the motion blur was during the Olympics. Also it is all in the broadcast. SD on HBO looks great vs. lesser SD source. I will update on the sports action after I see the ESPN HD tomorrow.
Ran the Avia disk last night. For audio I found I had one of my rear surround speakers out of polarity. Oops.
The factory settings for the video were pretty much all perfect. The only thing I saw for color was the red was up about 5%. Spent a long time with the black level and white level display. Honestly I could turn the contrast up to 100% and did not see any change to the shape of the grey scale bars or bend in the lines. Maybe they lost some of the half again as bright rule, but did not see any blooming or geometry change. I am not sure what that means. I at first balanced it to 80% contrast and 42% brightness, then after some of the advanced test patters ended up back at 70% contrast and 55% brightness. Almost all of the room lights were off too. I am surprised that I don't need to dial down these settings based on the idea of loosing detail in shadows but that is what I saw in the test patterns.

I just had my 57s715 calibrated this past Thursday by Bill Gambrell who frequently posts here. What he found is that the s715 is very close right out of the box. He had to adjust the red in the gray scale down and work on the black and white levels, but other than that I think it was just about right on. I don't want to put words in his mouth since I'm sure he may want to chime in with his own observations, but I think even he was impressed with the out of the box performance of this set.

He also said he adjusted the contrast down in the user settings and in the service menu. The SD and HD did look better after the calibration, and I did notice that the slightly sunburned look in people's faces was gone, and the black level seemed more right on. We didn't see any color uniformity issues, and we looked at a HD recording I had on my HD Tivo of Ice Age, and the color looked magnificent and seemed even more spot on after the calibration.

The biggest difference I noticed is that the "soft" look on DVD's was gone. Bill seemed to think that the contrast being high might have had something to do with this. I've got a DENON AVR 1804 with a JBL 6 Speaker system for surround sound, a Zenith DVB 318 DVD Player, and putting all this together with the great picture from the 57s715 and all I can say is that after watching LOTR tonight I don't want to go to a theater again!

I've watched HD Football and there is absolutely no motion blur and it feels like you're on the sidelines watching. I think it does an excellent job with 480i signals from most SD Channels.

As far as recommending a DVD player to go with it, I highly recommend the DVB 318. It upconverts to 1080i, and Bill did some tests with some challenging DVD scenes and found that the 318 had no problems with these, and when he put up a AVIA test pattern he found that the 318 even did a better job than the s715 when scaling to 1080i. So for those of you wondering whether or not you should let your DVD player or the Hitachi do the scaling it kind of depends on how good of a player you have.

By the way I'm running both my HD Tivo and the DVB 318 through component. For those of you who have this on order get ready to be impressed!

Walter, can I ask what the contrast and brightness were calibrated to in the manual settings, and if this was done in a dark room or bright room?

Great report Walter. The Zenith DVB-318 is definitely a great match for Hitachis.Originally posted by Fourseahorsemen
Walter, can I ask what the contrast and brightness were calibrated to in the manual settings, and if this was done in a dark room or bright room? His manual settings will be worthless to you, since Bill calibrated the baseline numbers inside of the service menu.

Originally posted by BIGLC
I contacted Hitachi and there was no rebate available which makes sense. This is a brand new model and why would they offer some type of rebate this early?

It turns out we are both correct. I talked to the salesperson who mentioned the rebate, and the rebate exists as I said before. HOWEVER, it apparently is through this outlet's "buyers' group."

BIGLC, I am also about to PM you.

The DVB-318 has 1080i component output disabled on units made after a certain date for copy protected discs (macrovision protected discs I think). I'm not certain what the date is though.

Originally posted by Stereodude
The DVB-318 has 1080i component output disabled on units made after a certain date for copy protected discs (macrovision protected discs I think). I'm not certain what the date is though. Ouch!

I should clarify that both 720p and 1080i is disabled. Only 480p works.

I'm not sure what he ended setting the brightness to, but he told me that he adjusted the contrast to 50 in the user menu, and then he set it down even further in the service menu. It was set during the day, but the blinds were all down and it was somewhat cloudy.

Walter

Originally posted by Stereodude
The DVB-318 has 1080i component output disabled on units made after a certain date for copy protected discs (macrovision protected discs I think). I'm not certain what the date is though.

I've seen over the DVD forum that units are still being shipped with the old firmware so they're still upconverting to 1080i over component.

Those of us who have the old firmware will probably never upgrade firmware for this very reason.

But I should add that when Bill and I were looking at different scenes that he uses to "challenge" DVD Players we went back and forth between outputting 480p and letting the Hitachi do the scaling, and doing the upconvert to 1080i through the DVB 318. Both ways were excellent on even these challenging scenes. It wasn't until we went into the AVIA test patterns that you could see that the DVB 318 did a slightly better job.

So even if it you got one with the upconversion over component disabled it would still be a great player with the s715.

Walter

adding cablecard to these sets makes sense, but does anyone know why they removed the firewire connections?

Look here for the "debate" on that:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=421221&highlight=ultravision

Please let's not get back into this issue on this thread...

thanks ... I tried to do a search, but must not have had the right words in there.

thanks again ... I'll check it out.

By the way has anyone gotten the center channel shelf that Hitachi mentions as an option for this set? I'd like to know how much it's going to be, and what is involved in setting it up.

Walter

I tried to get the shelf but I don't think it is available from Hitachi yet. At least we couldn't see it itemized.

My dealer's guesstimate was about $120 but it was just a guess.

I ordered the shelf when I bought my TV in early August but haven't heard anything since. I'll follow up with my retailer tomorrow and let you guys know.

I have a DVB-318 coming in a week. If the newer units are blocking 1080i over component I'm going to send it right back and order a Momitsu. Has anyone actually substantiated this? What a pain in my butt. Can't they wait until reasonably priced receivers switch DVI/HDMI inputs?

Does anyone have any input on using an Xbox with their s715. I was hoping for a little better performance (even though it's not a fixed pixel). I currently let the Hitachi upconvert 480i to 1080i as the 480p looks soft. Perhaps it's the contrast issue walterc mentioned but I wondered what other people were doing.

There's someone beta testing the new firmware who has confirmed it disables the 1080i output. There are mixed reports on HTF of the new firmware showing up.

I finally ordered the 57S715, and should have it in about a week. Goodbye 27" Sharp!

I too have been thinking about a new dvd player--I am assuming my four-year old non-progressive JBL player won't cut it with this TV?

BTW, there is a DVB-318 sticky on the DVD player forum here, and most reports seem to indicate that December and March builds are still arriving, which still upconvert to 1080i.

Walter,

Did the ISF Tech leave the Day/Night settings and tweak them individually? Or do you use one setting now for day and night?

Thanks!

memphismafioso,

I use one mode for the calibration. I base my judgement on the room lighting conditions as to whether I use Low APL or High APL test patterns for calibrating black level. If the room has a lot of windows, I will use the High APL.

Bill

Does anyone know when this shelf (part # SLF 10) will be available from Hitachi. This tv has a very slim top and a huge drop-off in the back.

Not sure. I lost interest in it when I factored the weight of my center channel into the equation. At 46lbs, I don't think the TV is going to hold it.

Okay.. clueless question here. Does the 51S715 have any means for assigning a label to a channel? I have the bottom-of-the-barrel analog cable ($13/month!) from Comcast. My channel list has a CH ID column that it blank, but I can't seem to cursor to it to make changes. And I don't get any Guide data, so I'm not apparently not "downloading" any of the channel names either.

The manual never mentions anything about this. All I want to do is have "ABC" come up when I'm on the ABC channel. My Pioneer from 1995 that this replaced could do that...

Can someone 'splain it to me?

thanks

Originally posted by Stereodude
Not sure. I lost interest in it when I factored the weight of my center channel into the equation. At 46lbs, I don't think the TV is going to hold it.

I have the 51", and a heavy center channel speaker too. There are absolutely no holes in the top of the set where one could bolt on a shelf. And balancing it with rear supporting rubber feet/legs looks very risky (although I think the casing can handle the weight, but the main mirror is attached to that top casing so I wouldn't want to risk deforming that).

I put a small 12x12x12" table in front of the set and put the speaker on that; it actually looks OK. Otherwise the the only other potential solution I found was shelving systems where you can build a structure over the TV; two 50" vertical shelf units, and then a horizontal shelf connecting them. That gives enough room for the speaker, receiver, DVD, etc., and lots of room for your DVD/game boxes.

I Googled the idea and found many examples on the web. IKEA and "the container store" sell these kinds of shelf systems.

I actually built my own shelf to set on top of the TV until I can find a Hitachi one. I took a small board, then glued and nailed two "legs" onto it that fit into the notches in the top center of the tv. A small piece of wood acts as a spacer to have the distance right.

Here's a poor ascii version of it: (rear view)

_______________________________
[_______________________________]
||[_]||
|| ||


The two "legs" are just slightly longer and narrower than a typical box of matches. I shaped and sanded them so they just fit in those notches. As a precaution, I added a couple strips of doublestick tape to the front edge of the shelf to reduce the odds of it slipping back out of the slots. Not the most elegant solution, but I think it works fine until a real one presents itself.

Oh, and my center speaker is pretty light (like 15 pounds or so) so it may not be a solution for big speakers.

How does this set compare to the 50v500?
the 50v500 is pretty darn good- (except for black and white films on DVD)
I have an offer of $2000 cash if I want to sell it. (low usage and includes extended warranty)

This new set looks sleek, but is it worth an upgrade or wait another year for the next generation?

Originally posted by bokes
How does this set compare to the 50v500?
the 50v500 is pretty darn good- (except for black and white films on DVD)
I have an offer of $2000 cash if I want to sell it. (low usage and includes extended warranty)

This new set looks sleek, but is it worth an upgrade or wait another year for the next generation?
I think you're in the wrong thread. You're talking about an LCD TV, this thread is about a RP CRT.

I have had my s715 for a couple of days. I also have the f510 (I bought the s715, but then got a great deal on the f510, so I am deciding between the two right now).

Here is my question. On the f510 117 point convergence grid, I can see all of the lines, whereas on the s715, the very bottom line is off of the screen. It is below the field of vision so that when the cursor is over this line, I can see only about half of the upper line on the cursor. I assume this is not normal and it is surprising that the entire field shows up on the f510 but not the ultravision s715.

Is this something that may settle in after another 50 hours (I only have about 15 hours on the set now) or will the likely remain until I adjust it? The top line seems to be in the same place on both the f510 and s715, but for some reason the lower line is missing on the s715. In fact, I can see a bit of a line below the lowest line on the f510 (there is a very small gap between this line and the lowest completely visable line.

Should I even worry about this? I know there are threads dealing with geometry, and I have tried to work through them, but find them quite confusing. Before I actually study these threads for several hours, I would like to know if this is something that may chance over time and whether this is worth the effort (i.e., is this error in the signal acceptable?).

Otherwise, I think both are very nice sets. I only have one hooked up to a video source at a time, but I can compare the convergence patterns. Aside from the missing line on the s715, the s715 does seem to be a bit sharper when displaying these lines. However, it is not that big of a deal (I can't really tell any noticable difference when switching between tvs on a HD feed), so I am still up in the air as to whether the s715 is worth $400 more (I will probably not use the tuner or cablecard). The f510 seems like a great deal. I really do like the black frame on either side of the screen on the s715 though, really makes it sa much nice screen to look at.

OK, I just went into the service menu and adjusted the verticle adjustment. Now I can see the bottom of the screen when in 4:3 expanded mode. This did not change the convergence grid (I still don't see the lower line), but I can see more of the bottom of the picture on the TV feed. However, now some of the top of the picture is cut off though, so I suppose I need to adjust something else.

I still have a 30 day return period. Is it worth the hassle to screw with this, or should I just get a different set?

Thanks

Run the Magic Focus on both sets after they have been on for 1 hour. Then compare them.

Stereodude,

Thanks for the help! I had no idea Magic Focus would correct that. I thought it just assumed (I don't know why) it performed an automatic 9 point convergence calibration. Based on its place in the menu, it seems like it would only do the convergence, but.... as you suggested I ran Magic Focus and it did help the problem. It is still not as good as the F510, but I can now see about 1/3 -1/2 of the bottom line at the edges of the screen and in the center it is just visible, and the top line has now moved very close to the top edge of the screen. I would say that the picture is only about 1/8 or so of an inch off (about 1/3 of the width of the lines in the 117 point convergence pattern) at the edges and a bit more in the center. I think I can live with this, is this about as good as I can expect? It is still strange that the f510 has lines that run perfectly at the top and bottom of the screen, but the s715 only has a perfect line at the top and a slightly bowed and hidden line at the bottom.

So, stereodude or anyone else in the know, will this at all affect my viewing? Should someone who is fairly picky, but not obsessive tweak this adjustment any more. I don't imagine it is worth trading the set in for another s715, since it seems fairly close now. Maybe I just have an excellent f510 in my house.

Thanks again for the help and any further comments would be appreciated.

How does one access the service menu on the 51s715?

Originally posted by CoffeeHawk
How does one access the service menu on the 51s715?
Hold down the input button on the front of the TV and press the power button and let go of both.

Be careful what you change. Also keep in mind it's best to not make changes unless the TV is warmed up. This means you should have the TV on for an hour or so before turning it off to enter into service mode.

Originally posted by skro
Stereodude,

I think I can live with this, is this about as good as I can expect? It is still strange that the f510 has lines that run perfectly at the top and bottom of the screen, but the s715 only has a perfect line at the top and a slightly bowed and hidden line at the bottom.

So, stereodude or anyone else in the know, will this at all affect my viewing? Should someone who is fairly picky, but not obsessive tweak this adjustment any more. I don't imagine it is worth trading the set in for another s715, since it seems fairly close now. Maybe I just have an excellent f510 in my house.
Try swapping the position of the two sets. Stray magnetic fields can influence the curve of those lines. The 510 may be in a better spot than the 715. Either way you should be able to straighten them out the rest of the way by adjusting the DCAM (like the 117pt convergence, but you can adjust green too). However, it seems the remote for the 715 is missing one of the buttons needed to properly use the DCAM. If you don't notice the geometry problem when watching it, it's probably best to just leave it alone for now.

I bought a DVI-D to HDMI adapter to connect my Samsung HDTV satellite receiver to the 57s715 but was unable to get a picture. I hooked the component connection back up for now, any ideas on the problem?

Originally posted by Fourseahorsemen
I bought a DVI-D to HDMI adapter to connect my Samsung HDTV satellite receiver to the 57s715 but was unable to get a picture. I hooked the component connection back up for now, any ideas on the problem?
I am using a DVI to HDMI cable from my PC to the 57s715 without any problems.

I hope Hitachi comes out with the center channel shelf. To me an advantage of CRT sets is the ability to place a center channel on top. A lot of new CRT sets aren't able to accomodate so you're left with either building a shelf or place the center on a stand in front of the TV. Either option sucks.

Originally posted by Fourseahorsemen
I bought a DVI-D to HDMI adapter to connect my Samsung HDTV satellite receiver to the 57s715 but was unable to get a picture. I hooked the component connection back up for now, any ideas on the problem?

On my Samsung DVD player, I had to hook it up with component or s-video first, then go into it's video or set-up menu, and select HDMI. Only then could I use the HDMI input.

Also, there are some notes in the Hitachi TV manaul about which combinations on antenna inputs you can use (you can physically hook up four: A, B, HDMI, cable card slot, but the TV will never recognize more than 2 or something similar to that statement). You may also have to go into the 'channel manager' menu and reselect inputs, program channels, etc.

When I set my TV up, I went through the manual page by page, and read all the notes; you'd be suprised what you can learn (no offense meant if you already did this).

Originally posted by DynamiteD
I hope Hitachi comes out with the center channel shelf. To me an advantage of CRT sets is the ability to place a center channel on top. A lot of new CRT sets aren't able to accomodate so you're left with either building a shelf or place the center on a stand in front of the TV. Either option sucks.
The datasheet says there is one for it. Sorry I can't tell you more because I'm not interested in it. I just don't think it's going to hold my center channel at 46lbs.

Originally posted by Fourseahorsemen
I bought a DVI-D to HDMI adapter to connect my Samsung HDTV satellite receiver to the 57s715 but was unable to get a picture. I hooked the component connection back up for now, any ideas on the problem?
Which component input on the TV are you using?

There has been quite a bit of discussion on another forum regrading the center shelf.

It was supposed to be released this month, and I think it was fairly expensive (about $100, but not sure). However, in the past week, people have been saying that Hitachi has delayed it, so people are looking to 3rd party solutions if they need it now.

Originally posted by Fourseahorsemen
I bought a DVI-D to HDMI adapter to connect my Samsung HDTV satellite receiver to the 57s715 but was unable to get a picture. I hooked the component connection back up for now, any ideas on the problem?

I just got my D* HD dish installed today. The D* guy hooked me up through component, but a few minutes ago I got a DVI/HDMI cable in the mail.

I am using the Samsung SIR-TS360 receiver. After replacing the component cable with the DVI/HDMI, I had to push the Output button in the lower right corner of the receiver, so that it says RGB DVI in small letters at the very top. It's working great.

I should add that my receiver was set to output for 4:3 displays. Enter the setup menu/preferences/screen format, and change it there.

Thanks Mako, that did the trick. The little YPbP and DVI were both originally lit up but when I pressed it again only the RGB and DVI were lit up.
FWIW, I put a shelf on the wall at the same level as the top of the TV I think I paid $10 in parts at Lowes. I originally had the speaker so that the back half rested on the shelf and the front half rested on the TV, so that the sound is coming from the same plane as the screen. I got to thinking about the vibration that the speaker might transmit to the TV so I scooted it back so that it is completely on the shelf. I don't think the sound is compromised, and having the speaker set back is a little less distracting I think.

Thanks for the replies concerning the center channel shelf. I've heard all kinds of talk about it never being available, then available in September, now delayed. How hard can it be to manufacture a shelf for a TV that you built to have one?

have you guys considered getting just a center channel stand? That's what those stands are made for. There's a considerable amount of people on this forum that has medium to big center speakers. How high is the screen from the bottom of the base to the viewing area. I haven't had the chance to see one of these sets in person yet, but from the pictures that saw on the earlier threads, the design looks alot better than from the websites, what's those blue tape looking strips around the corner of the TV? I hope it's just something that it comes with out of the box and can be removed. I know what some Rotel lovers like me are thinking, it matches the design of Rotel, hehehee

I've considered the stand. I don't want to use one because the center channel will protrude out too far into my room due to space limitations.

I'm considering getting this TV. I know that CRTs only have 1081i, not 720p. Is that going to be a problem for HDTV viewing, i.e. Fox, ESPN, NBC? I read somewhere that those stations broadcast in 720p and I won't be able to view them? That's BS right? So anyway, what are the opinions so far about this tv? I've heard more about center channels than PQ and performance. For me, I'm looking for something to put in the basement with not much ambient light at all. Space isn't much of a concern either, I want big and beautiful PQ!

I bought the 51s715 and absolutely love it. And yes, you can watch anything broadcast in 720i, just like 720 screens can watch anything broacast in 1080i.

I have a light controlled room, and it looks amazing. I think it is great deal deal compared to other technologies (I bought mine for less than 2K.

I agree there hasn't been too much discussion regarding PQ. I have calibrated it with Digital Video Essentials, and I think it looks fantastic. I also think it handles SD material well.

The f510 seems like a great deal as well, since it is listed at about 500 bucks less than the s715.

Originally posted by CrimeDawg
I'm considering getting this TV. I know that CRTs only have 1081i, not 720p. Is that going to be a problem for HDTV viewing, i.e. Fox, ESPN, NBC? I read somewhere that those stations broadcast in 720p and I won't be able to view them? That's BS right? So anyway, what are the opinions so far about this tv? I've heard more about center channels than PQ and performance. For me, I'm looking for something to put in the basement with not much ambient light at all. Space isn't much of a concern either, I want big and beautiful PQ! Yes, it's BS. Your STB or TV will convert 720p to 1080i http://www.avsforum.com/hdtvfaq/HDTV-FAQ.htm

As I understand it, the S715's convert everything to 1080p and then give you your choice of displaying the picture at 540p or 1080i. How does this work? Isn't there a negative impact on PQ through the multiple conversions? E.g., 1080i input gets deinterlaced, which can introduce artifacts, and then gets reinterlaced for display at 1080i. Isn't that worse than just displaying 1080i without any conversions? Even for 480i inputs, there may be some unnecessary introduction of deinterlacing artifacts.

Furthermore, how can the PQ be optimized simultaneously for 540p and 1080i? In both cases, 540 lines are written to the screen every 1/60 second, but, in 1080i, alternate fields are displaced by 1/2 a linewidth. Wouldn't you want a smaller spot size for 1080i, to render the higher vertical resolution, and a larger spot size for 540p, to reduce the space between the lines? Or is that not how it works?

And how does this compare with the Mits CRT RPTV's? They used to provide a similar choice, but between 480p and 1080i. (Apparently the new models no longer support 480p.)

I guess what I'm really asking is whether the choice is meaningful. If you have a progressive input (either 480p or 720p), will the picture look better at 540p? If you have an interlaced input (either 480i or 1080i), would the picture look better at 1080i? Or is the difference really subtle?

I've had my 51S715 for about 10 days now. Initially it worked great but in the past two days it has developed a problem with the power switch. When I hit the power switch either on the remote or on the unit, the internal breaker immediately trips and it won't respond further from the power button. The only recourse is to unplug it from the wall and plug it back in at which point it powers up. The power switch still works to turn it off. Anyone else have this problem or any advice about what to tell Tech Support at Hitachi?

I have read through the manual, but I could not find any way to turn off the blue power light.

Does anyone know if this can be done? It looks cool, but I would like to have the option of turning off the light if I want to while I watch the tv (I believe other tvs, like the JVC D-ILA, let you turn off the rather bright power indicator light).

Originally posted by NABHDTVNOW
I've had my 51S715 for about 10 days now. Initially it worked great but in the past two days it has developed a problem with the power switch. When I hit the power switch either on the remote or on the unit, the internal breaker immediately trips and it won't respond further from the power button. The only recourse is to unplug it from the wall and plug it back in at which point it powers up. The power switch still works to turn it off. Anyone else have this problem or any advice about what to tell Tech Support at Hitachi?

I haven't experienced that, but my set does sometimes make a loud "pop" when I turn it off after watching a few hours.

Can anyone reassure me that this is normal?

Originally posted by poethius
As I understand it, the S715's convert everything to 1080p and then give you your choice of displaying the picture at 540p or 1080i. How does this work? Isn't there a negative impact on PQ through the multiple conversions? E.g., 1080i input gets deinterlaced, which can introduce artifacts, and then gets reinterlaced for display at 1080i. Isn't that worse than just displaying 1080i without any conversions? Even for 480i inputs, there may be some unnecessary introduction of deinterlacing artifacts.

Furthermore, how can the PQ be optimized simultaneously for 540p and 1080i? In both cases, 540 lines are written to the screen every 1/60 second, but, in 1080i, alternate fields are displaced by 1/2 a linewidth. Wouldn't you want a smaller spot size for 1080i, to render the higher vertical resolution, and a larger spot size for 540p, to reduce the space between the lines? Or is that not how it works?

And how does this compare with the Mits CRT RPTV's? They used to provide a similar choice, but between 480p and 1080i. (Apparently the new models no longer support 480p.)

I guess what I'm really asking is whether the choice is meaningful. If you have a progressive input (either 480p or 720p), will the picture look better at 540p? If you have an interlaced input (either 480i or 1080i), would the picture look better at 1080i? Or is the difference really subtle? Here goes...

When 1080i (or 540p) is input into the Hitachi, it is displayed natively. No VirtualHD 1080p processing is applied. When any non-native rate is input, it is first converted to 1080p then back to 1080i for display. Any conversion causes artifacts, but the Hitachi does an admirable controlling the visibility of artifacts.

1080i is really just interleaved 540p fields (60 fields per sec), so there is not much difference in the processing VirtualHD must do to go to 1080i or 540p (60 frames per sec). In film mode, 3-2 pulldown detection recreates original progressive frames of the film. This is best displayed progressively (540p on the Hitachi). For 1080i display, 3-2 pulldown must be reapplied for interlacing.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-10-2000.html

I find that the DVD picture is more stable at 540p than 1080i (only noticeable on critical scenes...mini-blinds are great for testing!). Converting 720p to 1080i is noticeably better than 540p (as expected). However, I find that most STBs do a better job than the Hitachi converting to 1080i (I have done testing while viewing SNF on ESPNHD). XBox still looks great at 720p converted to 1080i on the Hitachi.

How does this compare to Mits? Well, the Mits [and Panny and Sony] sets that display 480p natively do a better job with DVD since there is no conversion taking place. It is easy for me to see the difference (I own both) but many people don't see a difference, the Hitachi scaler is pretty good (and using a scaling DVD player like the Zenith/LG or Denon can be even better).

Marc, you da man!!!! Thanks!! (Hope to buy 65s700 next week)

Thanks so much, Marc! You're a great resource.

One remaining question: the spot size. I.e., are the scanlines more visible at 540p than at 1080i, at close distance? Do you adjust the focus differently for the two modes? Maybe I don't understand how 540p works: I'm assuming that the scanlines of successive frames are written on top of each other, whereas the scanlines of successive 1080i fields are vertically displaced so that they fill in the gaps.

Scanlines are more visible at 540p (so 65" owners may want to use 1080i for DVD if they see scanlines). I only adjust focus at 540p (you don't need to focus for each resolution). You seem to be on track on 540p vs. 1080i.

Originally posted by Marc Alexander
Scanlines are more visible at 540p (so 65" owners may want to use 1080i for DVD if they see scanlines). I only adjust focus at 540p (you don't need to focus for each resolution). You seem to be on track on 540p vs. 1080i.

I am now, thanks (again) to you!

How do you know what 720p gets converted to?

I have a cable card and ABC and ESPNHD both come in at 720p and when I click info it says 720p and the virtual HD menu option is greyed out.

1080i

also is the integrated guide usefull for anything?

and

With the antenna setup with the cable card it's locked in, channel A only to cable, but There is an option below for cable1 or cable 2, What are these options for, I looked in the manual but couldn't find any info.

It doesn't seem to show much, if any, information with my local channels.

I don't know about the CableCARD.

How sensitive is this TV to the magnetic field emanating from a powered subwoofer? I have a fairly old Sony XBR CRT rear projection TV that is affected by it unless it's moved about 20 inches away. I really don't want to relocate the subwoofer anywhere else in the room, but I've really considered going to an LCD, DLP, or LCOS TV just to avoid placement worries. Anybody with experience using an unshielded powered subwoofer with this set?

a favor for me also? Can someone with the 57 inch version tell me how high is the bottom of the viewing area to the bottom of the TV? I'm planning on putting a center channel speaker stand in front and have either a HTM7 or HTM1 (B&W) on stand and don't want the speaker to block any of the picture at all. Both speakers are 12-13 inches high and the stand I'm considering is 13 inches high also. So the bottom of the screen has to be at least 26 inches off the ground. Can someone with the 57inch confirm this for me? BTW...What's the MSRP on this thing?

Originally posted by BlazeMaster
a favor for me also? Can someone with the 57 inch version tell me how high is the bottom of the viewing area to the bottom of the TV? I'm planning on putting a center channel speaker stand in front and have either a HTM7 or HTM1 (B&W) on stand and don't want the speaker to block any of the picture at all. Both speakers are 12-13 inches high and the stand I'm considering is 13 inches high also. So the bottom of the screen has to be at least 26 inches off the ground. Can someone with the 57inch confirm this for me? BTW...What's the MSRP on this thing?

No joy...I just took the most generous possible measurement, right to the edge of the actual display area, and got just under 25".

Oh, and msrp is 2399 I think, maybe 2499. But I paid significantly less and many others are getting reasonable deals off list it seems.

I got my 51s715 for 1650, there is suppose to be a self (slf-10) coming out for center channels I don't know how it will work though.

I think I'm probably answering other peoples by asking this but here comes my question anyway.

quick primer first though:
ATSC tuners tune OTA HD,
QAM tuners decode cable HD
the S715 tuners can obviously do both.

So...
With a cable card in, it seems to lock the input in QAM mode.
I was thinking of installing a switch inline with the cable so I could flip to OTA HD to get CBS and FOX since they are not on my cable in HD FOX actually is just broadcasting digitally, but is not HD, once they are HD they'll be on my cable package, but I digress.

Anyway does anyone know any easyway to flip from a cable card QAM to OTA ATSC to get the one or two channels I need to pull down from the ole bunny ears?

oh and another question I have would be, I was reading alot of threads about going in and doing a service menu level convergence calibration, but these threads all deal with older sets.

With th 117point convergence grid is there any reason why you'd need to do something at a service menu level for the convergence?

why can't you attach your antena to input B (antena B) for OTA stuff. Then you just need a splitter to split the cable signal from the coax. Your Tv has a built in switch.

Originally posted by sotti
With th 117point convergence grid is there any reason why you'd need to do something at a service menu level for the convergence?
Probably not unless you have geometry problems.

Originally posted by quackery
why can't you attach your antena to input B (antena B) for OTA stuff. Then you just need a splitter to split the cable signal from the coax. Your Tv has a built in switch.

The cable card turns antena B off all together.

If I run without the cable card then I get really wacky channel numbers and no digital cable, just HD Channels.

nice stuff

I'm in the same boat as another person in this discussion. I currently have the 51F510, but can pick-up the 51S715 for only $250 more out the door. Both are incredible deals, there's no ? about that. The problem is, I can't decide if the S715 is worth the add'l coin since I can't see the TV's next to each other. The other twist in the debate is that there is no 30-day "no ?'s asked" return policy on the S715 (ABC Warehouse in Michigan).

I'm delighted to read all of the positive remarks about this set, so I'm thinking of just going back to the sales guy and telling him that I will buy the S715 from him, but only if he gives me a written 30-day "no ?'s asked" return policy & price match. It was extremely comforting having that when I bought the F510 kind of spontaneously around 2 wks ago (had done research and it was a top candidate, but I had the store mgr right there in front of me and it was a supposed take it today or leave it).

Another quick ? I had for both of these sets - I have a STB with a DVI output. I will also have the Zenith 318 w/ the DVI output. Both TV's obviously only have one HDMI input. I do not have a receiver yet. Thus, I need some inputs to get some audio. Are there any inputs on the back of the TV associated w/ the HDMI input (Video 1 maybe)? I would like to know this before I purchase a DVI to HDMI cable.

Thanks,
Chris

yes video one is shared with the HDMI input.

Originally posted by sterbz

Another quick ? I had for both of these sets - I have a STB with a DVI output. I will also have the Zenith 318 w/ the DVI output. Both TV's obviously only have one HDMI input. I do not have a receiver yet. Thus, I need some inputs to get some audio. Are there any inputs on the back of the TV associated w/ the HDMI input (Video 1 maybe)? I would like to know this before I purchase a DVI to HDMI cable.

Thanks,
Chris

On the DVD Player forum everyone seems to think that you should use component connections with the DVB 318, not DVI. Assuming your firmware is the version allowing upconversion to 1080i over component.

BTW, if Memphismafioso is still following this thread, didn't you get the DVB 318? How do you like it on this set?

Yes, I am aware of the huge Zenith 318 thread and the firmware issue. FYI for those still wanting the 318, you can request the old firmware from Gochnauer's and they will promise your item will have it. That's what I did as recent as this Monday. I would act quick, though, as they are drying up fast.

I plan on using the HDMI port in conjunction w/ my STB.

Thanks for the heads up though.
Chris

sotti,

You are right. The cable card disables antenna B. That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard, but true. If you have another component with a tv tunner built in, for example vcr, you could split the signal to the vcr and connect the vcr out jacks (r, y, w) or S-video to the video input on the TV and that would allow you to get OTA broadcasts or non digital cable. The big question is why does the CC disable the second tunner built into the tv?

HUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM. The VCR will not be able to tune in HD OTA broadcast. So I think you would need a new QAM tuner. That is crazy and I think that this is the only hitachi that works this way.

Now I am disapointed. There is a chink in my amor.

yeah, I'd have to grab an ATSC tuner and slap in my PC or get a settop box.

The computer idea sounds best. Get your self an all-in-wonder 9600 video card and you should be able to tune in OTA HD broadcast and input them to the TV.

Originally posted by quackery
Get your self an all-in-wonder 9600 video card and you should be able to tune in OTA HD broadcast and input them to the TV.
When did they add that functionality to the 9600?

Is it just my remote or all of the remotes? When the room is dark you can't see the bottuns on the remote because the backlighting doesn't shine through the buttons.

http://ati.com/products/radeon9600/aiw9600xt/features.html

http://shop.ati.com/product.asp?sku=2546404

please correct me if i am wrong. What video cards have a built in tuner? May be it is the new all in wonders.

You could be right. The 9600 may not have an hdtv tunner built in. I thought that I had read that it did but now I am questioning that. However, the hdtv wonder claims that it has an hdtv tuner. I know there are many other good products out there that will recieve an hdtv OTA broadcast for your computer.

http://shop.ati.com/product.asp?sku=2546404

Originally posted by quackery
Is it just my remote or all of the remotes? When the room is dark you can't see the bottuns on the remote because the backlighting doesn't shine through the buttons.

Mine is the same way, oh well.

Sears will be delivering my 57S715 this morning (my first HDTV) and I had a quick question about the settings for my Panasonic RP62 DVD Player.

Should I send the TV a 480i or 480p signal?

Should I set the TV output at 540p or 1080i for DVD?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks.

David.

If you send 480i, you might want to be sure the Hitachi's auto movie detection mode is on for your dvd player input (it's off by default). I usually send 480p from my cheapo Toshiba sd3960 player. I also have my HD receiver (Samsung TS360) convert everything to 1080i rather than just pass through what it receives and letting my tv do it. But I can't tell much of a difference either way.

Earlier in this thread a knowledgeable individual advised setting the tv to 540p for dvds.

Originally posted by dd110914
Sears will be delivering my 57S715 this morning (my first HDTV) and I had a quick question about the settings for my Panasonic RP62 DVD Player.

Should I send the TV a 480i or 480p signal? Try both and use whatever looks better (set the Hitachi to 540p). I prefer 480p out from the Panasonic RP82.

Originally posted by Marc Alexander
Try both and use whatever looks better (set the Hitachi to 540p). I prefer 480p out from the Panasonic RP82.

Thanks Marc....I've been playing with my 57S715 all day and I agree...480p looks best.

Everything else looks great too. I watched the Redskins-Browns game on Fox over OTA and it looked fantastic.

David

I'm just wondering what most people run their brightness and contrast at?

I know some of you guys have had your sets ISF'd, but I suppose even then it might be applicable.

I have the AVIA disc, but it seems like my black balance is highly effected by other content on the screen, IE if I play it back with black vs grey side bars.

I have it set what seems to keep the white blooming to a minimum and the black lines decernable, but I seem to be loosing black detail in the dark areas on my DVDs and HD doesn't seem to look as good as it does with default settings.

Although I know sometimes accurate does not equate visually apealing since we tend to like images that are possibly brighter than they should be.

oh and I'v been trying setting with contrast between 35-55% and brightness between 50-65%. I seem to have settled in around 40% contrast 65% brightness, I get most of the detail in dark areas, but the picture ends up looking really flat.

Also with black bars on the side the background on the AVIA disc seems to be one or two shades lighter than that black.

I'm about 50 brightness and 50 contrast in the dark. I did make changes in the service menu that required me to turn up the brightness from 43% to 50%.

Are you annoyed by the nickle sized blue dot starring at you while watching movies in the dark. My wife hates the blue power indicator light.

Also, are you able to see the bottons on your remote in the dark? Thanks for the response Toothy. How about anyone else?

Are you annoyed by the nickle sized blue dot starring at you while watching movies in the dark. My wife hates the blue power indicator light.

Also, are you able to see the buttons on your remote in the dark? Thanks for the response Toothy. How about anyone else?

Originally posted by sotti
I'm just wondering what most people run their brightness and contrast at?

oh and I'v been trying setting with contrast between 35-55% and brightness between 50-65%. I seem to have settled in around 40% contrast 65% brightness, I get most of the detail in dark areas, but the picture ends up looking really flat.

Also with black bars on the side the background on the AVIA disc seems to be one or two shades lighter than that black.

I just ran Avia last night. Before that I had done some THX tuning followed by some eyeball adjustments. I must say that I found Avia not as useful as I'd hoped. But anyway my night settings are

Contrast 35
Brightness 46.

My uncalibrated day settings for normal TV watching (neither bright nor totally dark in my room) are

Contrast 58
Brightness 53. This is mostly HDTV and it seems quite good.

scotti,
So...
With a cable card in, it seems to lock the input in QAM mode.
I was thinking of installing a switch inline with the cable so I could flip to OTA HD to get CBS and FOX since they are not on my cable in HD FOX actually is just broadcasting digitally, but is not HD, once they are HD they'll be on my cable package, but I digress.

Anyway does anyone know any easyway to flip from a cable card QAM to OTA ATSC to get the one or two channels I need to pull down from the ole bunny ears?



The only way I could see this working is if you ejected the cable card whenever you wanted to get the OTA channels, seems like it would be quite a hassle(where I am we have all the major networks in HD, except WB & UPN) & wouldn't be very realistic to do it. Seems like seperate reciever would be the only real way to go(although you know shorty after you get it your cable co. will probably start carrying those missing channels.. :D

Originally posted by quackery
Are you annoyed by the nickle sized blue dot starring at you while watching movies in the dark. My wife hates the blue power indicator light.

Also, are you able to see the buttons on your remote in the dark? Thanks for the response Toothy. How about anyone else?
So, tape over it with black electrical tape.

Toothy, i think the DVB 318 is a steal. I have the March 2004 build and it still upconverts over component. On a great transfer (like the new Star Wars DVDs) the quality is near HD. I'm by no means a true videophile (I haven't had the set calibrated or anything other than my DVE disc) but the difference to me was noticeable. I definitely prefer the 1080i feed to the 480p feed through the Hitachi with my previous DVD player and my Xbox. I had to turn off the auto start feature because it locks the player up with some DVDs but other than that I couldn't be happier.

Originally posted by memphismafioso
Toothy, i think the DVB 318 is a steal. I have the March 2004 build and it still upconverts over component. On a great transfer (like the new Star Wars DVDs) the quality is near HD.
I wish people would stop saying that.

The best DVDs looks like soft (bad) HD. So-so HD and good HD have so much more detail than even the best DVDs I don't understand how people can sit here and say these things.

It's been awhile since I've had a chance to get caught up on some reading on this forum and even in this thread. I've had my 57s715 going on 2 months now, and I still continue to be impressed. The only weakness is that you do need a light controlled room. And I don't mean a totally darkened room either. My kitchen is adjacent to my family room where the Hitachi sits and I have blinds there, but in the window directly behind my set I have blinds and drapes which is a perfect combination for controlling light.

After sundown which is when I (and most people) do most of my viewing the picture is absolutely stunning. I was watching Monday Night Football in HD last night and I still continue to be awed by the quality. When I walk into a CC or Best Buy the only sets I see that even draw my attention are some high end plasmas and a few direct view LCD's with both being 3 to 4 times more in cost relative to the same picture size.

I too own the DVB 318, and I suggest letting the 318 do the upscaling so I always pass 1080i through it to the Hitachi. It's not that the Hitachi Upscaler is bad, but the 318 is just a little better. If you go back and read some of my previous posts you'll read more about this.

My set was ISF calibrated and he set my contrast and brightness down in the service menu. It took some time to get used to watching something that wasn't so bright, but now that I have I can really appreciate the "rich" feel you get by watching an HD picture in the right contrast/brightness settings as opposed to what we're used to.


It does not appear that there is going to be a clear/better choice in the newer technologies for at least another year or maybe more so if you're looking to go HD in the near future then I'd definitely recommend RPTV in general and the Hitachi s715 in particular. And I would recommend it as being worth the extra money over the f510. When you're sitting there watching HD in your living room for the few years to come you're never going to think "Jeez I wish I would have gone a few hundred bucks cheaper to get the lower end model", but if you do go cheaper you may regret it.

Stereodude, it's called an opinion. Everyone has one. As you mature, you're going to have to learn to deal with it. I said in my post that I'm not a true videophile. My experience with HDTV is limited to DirecTV feeds and the new Star Wars DVDs on the 318 come pretty damned close to some of those DirecTV feeds in...my...opinion.

I tried the black electrical tape but my wife says she can still see the blue dot any other suggestions? She does where blue contacts could that be the problem?

In truth I don't even notice the power indicator light. Does your remote back light shine through the buttons in the dark? Your input would be appreciated. I need to know if I should ask for a new remote.

memphismafioso:

As you mature, you're going to have to learn to deal with it

Please do not make personal attacks on this board.

Other peoples opinions are as valid as your own.

Moving right along, I thought I'd just link to this other thread about potential power supply issues on the S715. Doesn't sound like it will be a big deal, but more information is always better:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=453715

Sotti, thanks for making my point. I was responding to this:

"I don't understand how people can sit here and say these things."

I come here to listen to other folks opinions and take their advice for what it's worth. His remark was inappropriate and uncalled for. Mako asked for my opinion on the 318 and I gave it. There was no need for him to make that remark.

Enough said. Let's move on.

Feel free to move the off topic discussion here - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=453131 ;)

I've posted before how good of a combination I believe the s715 and the DVB-318 really are. If you're going to get a quality HD set then you owe it to yourself to get a quality DVD player.

Originally posted by walterc
I've posted before how good of a combination I believe the s715 and the DVB-318 really are. If you're going to get a quality HD set then you owe it to yourself to get a quality DVD player.
I hope to further back that statement.

I just have not had time to hook up my DVB-318 yet.

~~~

I have put 25hrs on my S715 though. (however sadly most weren't with me watching it)

I am thoroughly impressed with PQ of every input so far.

HD TV is just STUNNING!
Using the TV's tuner I get 14 of the 21 HD channels available through my cable company! :cool:

SD TV is better then expected. Especially the digital channels. Some are surprisingly good even after watching HD.

I am also running the cable STB via S-VHS. (for the encoded channels)


Color is very decent OTB. I'm interested to see how well.
I will get time to do some baseline calibrations soon. Both Avia and I may even try taking some greyscale pictures like stereodude because it can't hurt & I have a good camera.

Greetings all

I was wondering if someone who has the set could do a tiny favor. I'm trying to find a picture of the back of the set so i can see the inputs for real. I've been searching the net but all I can find are front and side views.

Could someone snap a pic of the back please? Or for that matter if anyone knows of an online location that yahoo can't turn up, that would be great to.

thanks

The owner's manual for the5xS715 is here:

http://merchant.satisfusion.com/library/manuals/owners/51_57S715.pdf

and has a picture of the rear panel.

Thanks, I tried getting that but it wanted me to register on the hitachi site.

Edit: Question: The two front tv speakers. To connect them to a receiver, are those RCA plugs on the back? It looks like a seperate rca jack for each side. Which isn't gonna work on my reciever as it only has the push down clamp type of connectors for the speakers, one red and one black.

Are these sets available in Canada yet? The only models I've seen are the F510's.

NeedAName,
Try the Hitachi site got the 51S715 again. Ignore or get rid of the inquisition asking you to register. Click on the "Owner's Manual? Click here" near the bottom of the page. It should take you to a menu of choices and you should be able to view and download the manual.

If not, I can email it to you.

Thanks, I got it. But I'm wondering about hooking up the front speakers as a center speaker.

It talks about that in the owner's manual, somewhere early on, I don't remember where exactly. I know there is an illustration on that page however.

There is, but it looks like its on RCA Jack on the back of the TV.

My Receiver is an old sony (dont have model) but it has the red/black push down connectors for the speaker wire, not rca. ANd there is only one for center. it is DD 5.1 and DTS so it was fairly high end (five years ago)

If there is a seperate RCA for each speaker on the back of the tv, how would that hook up? Do new recievers use rca for audio now? I really hate using the wire

Edit: I take that back. the reciever has the tighten down screw thingys, the speakers have the push downs.

No speakers are still using and will probably always use speaker wire vs RCA, better wires have terminators on them so you don't have to mess with the strands undwinding and such.

if your reciever doesn't have RCA outs for amplifiers then you are out of luck.

So the back of the tv then has which connectors for the front as center?

from what i understand, those can be used to replace the center channel (seems to me they should replace right and left instead), but do they connect via speaker wire on both ends?

The only rca jack my receiver has for speakers is for the sub. And for digital of course. Really wish i had the model number of that and and actual pic of the back of the set.

If I am out of luck, can the fronts be disbabled entirely so i can use the existing center until i can trade up the reciever?

NeedAName,
I am not positive but I think that the input for the TV's center channel is line-level. Maybe somebody who runs in this mode can confirm this. Probably you are thinking about putting in speaker level signals which are higher powered signals so that doesn't work.

The front speakers on the TV can be easily turned off in the Audio menu . In any event, they can be turned down to be inaudible (which is what I do since I switch back and forth between my suround system and the TV's internal spealers).

Originally posted by The_smokester
NeedAName,
I am not positive but I think that the input for the TV's center channel is line-level. Maybe somebody who runs in this mode can confirm this. Probably you are thinking about putting in speaker level signals which are higher powered signals so that doesn't work.

The front speakers on the TV can be easily turned off in the Audio menu . In any event, they can be turned down to be inaudible (which is what I do since I switch back and forth between my suround system and the TV's internal spealers).
Correct.

They are line level.

Forgive me please, I'm an utter newb at this stuff. I know how to hook it up, but that's about it :)

Line-Level is....wire?

Does one side act as the red and one side act as the black?

NeedAName,
A "line level isignal" is a low power level signal. This level needs to be amplfied so that it is given enough power to drive a speaker. Plugging into line level inputs means that the TV's audio power amplifier will be used to increase the power to drive the speakers.

If you put an unattenated speaker level signal into a line level input it will possibly overwhelm the TV's audio circuitry causing distortion and possibly damage.

Regarding the red and black: Depending on the design of your amplifier, the black side is probably ground and the red side carries the signal realtive to ground (assuming a single ended design).

Thanks for the reply. I think i need to simplify it a bit

Recievers have the turn screws to tighten down on the wire.

my current reciever has ONE center channel input. Red & Black.

So, will this sets front speakers, both of them, connect to my receivers Single center input and distribute sound correctly to both sides?

I confess, I don't quite understand why you'd want to use them as a center speaker unless of course it divides the output into two "center" channels. I.e, the person speaking on the left side of the screen goes out the left speaker and so on.

What you have won't work.
Sorry :(

The RCA jacks typically carry the low level signal.

Speaker wire carry the amplified signal.

The hitachi needs the signal to be fed via 1 mono RCA cable and low level signal. People do make convertors but I've typically seen them used in car audio and aren't typically enginered to handle 50+ watts of power.

The reason they use the the hitachi as the center and not the stereo is that the internal speakers aren't really far enough apart for good stereo seperation. But they do a great job of localizing sound to the screen.

The reason you'd want to do this, is simply you don't have a center channel, you can't fit a center channel anywhere, or something along those lines.

Anyone who is serious about their theater would not use this as a solution.


So you are stuck with
buying a center
buying something like http://www.crutchfield.com/S-h3ZrgRdi2Hz/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?i=101PL2&cc=01&search=line+level+to+rca
or getting a new reciever.

Honestly getting a good center channel is your best bet.

In order to use the Hitachi as a center speaker your receiver needs to have an 'out' panel. It will be 6 RCA jacks, one for each of the 5.1 signals (not one black and one red, not your speaker wires outputs).

3 of the 5 A/V inputs on the back of the Hitachi gives you the option of plugging in a single connector for 'TV as center channel' (labeled something like that). It works well and is easy to set up in the TV's menus, however, it is very likely the timber of the TV's speakers will be nothing like that of your other speakers, so you will notice that the sound in the center is very different. This may not be as noticeable depending on the cost/quality of your speakers. If your receiver has an interal room/speaker equalizer function you may be able to compensate and match the TV to your other speakers. However, if your receiver does not have a 6 channel ouput, then it likely would not have an equalizer function. If your receiver has these, then you likely paid good money for your speakers and receiver and hence you would want to use your center channel speaker :)

Thanks, that's what i needed :)

Its no big, I have "decent" setup now, nothing great, well, actually, it seems i can hardly ever hear the center at all, but that just may be cause of my crappy speakers. Just little tiny Sony bookshelf things. About the size of a bookend.

My "theoretical" system is as follows.

Hitatchi 57S715
Pioner 1014
Sony DVPNS975V dvd
Existing Sony VCR (may trade up to HD Tivo)
Speakers undecided. But no more than a grand total if i can help it.

Room is a typical apartment living room for now. Distance to tv will be roughly 10-12 feet max. Probably a little less. I realize that's to small, but I want this tv and I can always move later :)

Now I just gotta save up the money

Hey guys, I have a question about this tv.

What are the split screen options? I read about hd splitscreen, but, I'm confused as to what you can do with split screen, with what resolutions, can you do split screen anytime, on either tuner, etc.

Thanks! :)

Originally posted by Nomb
Hey guys, I have a question about this tv.

What are the split screen options? I read about hd splitscreen, but, I'm confused as to what you can do with split screen, with what resolutions, can you do split screen anytime, on either tuner, etc.

Thanks! :)
You can do split screen pretty much anytime. Tuner B can't be on the right hand side (only on the left). It seems that in split screen mode only really works well for 4:3 material. If you split screen HD the 16:9 content is smushed to 4:3.

Thanks for the reply, very mush appreciated.

My father will be purchasing this tv very soon (doing all the reseach for him) so I'll be sure and post my impressions and experiences here to share with everyone.

Nomb,
I think there's a picture-in-picture (PIP) mode as well as side-by-side. The PIP is available only with 1080i or digital input signal.

The are many combinations possible--like for example surf mode--in the multi-picture display mode but the availability depends on what types of input you are using.

I'm not sure if this is the right thread to ask this, but here goes. In deciding to buy the 715 over the 510 was it purely for the built in tuner and cable card? Or did you notice a difference in other features and PQ between the two? I haven't been able to see them side by side and I don't know if I can justify the price difference for the integrated tuner. Or maybe I can? I'm sure there has been dead horse beating discussions over integrated tuner vs. non-integrated, but I'm just curious as to what made S715 a better purchase thand the f510. I'm very interested in the Hitachi sets.

S715 gives you the tuner and better lens system (better edge/corner focus and convergence). Otherwise, they are comparable.

SmokeMaster,
For me, it was the HDTV tuner, the cable card, the five lens optics and the slimmer cabinet (about 3 inches less depth, bit a biggy).

I saw them both and I think the PQ is comparable between the 715 and the 510.

If you watch HD the you are going to need a set top box (STB) which make the costs closer when you include it in the total.

I am quite satisfied with my 51S715.

I spent the extra dollars on the S715 mostly because I knew it had better optics that _might_ provide better picture quality. Also, because the OOTB performance might be better if they spend a little more time tweaking at the factory. It's a great tv, no question, but I imagine the F510 is also excellent. You might also check out the new Panasonics, I am forgetting the model, but great things have been said about them. I'd buy my 57S715 again without hesitation.

I also would buy my S715 again in a heart beat.
I would choose it over the 510 because of the black surround and better optics. You're never going to say to yourself, "damn I wish I bought the cheaper optics"
Also there are likely other internal companion upgrades they don't list in the specs.

I also can add that anyone looking for a DVD player should get the Zenith DVB-318.

Even after reading all the rave reviews it surpassed my expectations.
Some DVD's look as good as HD. I know some purists may balk at that statement but the DVD's output at 1080i to my S715 is beyond stellar.

I let the kids watch Nemo and I sat through the whole thing. Again. Absolutely stunning.

I am getting close to 100hrs and will be breaking out the tuning discs shortly.

The Zenith DVB-318 is the one that upconverts only with the early firmware, is that correct?

I was looking at the sony DVP-NS975V as an alternative. I don't see in its specs that it upscales on component specifically, but with the CC installed, i imagine i'd be using the HDMI anyway

The newest builds of the dvb 318 lose the 1080i component upconversion supposedly, it still upconverts through dvi and the newer firmware I think addresses some white crush issues over dvi. But you can still get the 318 with the older firmware easily it seems. But with a free hdmi slot you could also look at the Denon 1910 in a similar price range, probably others as well.

Anyway, I've broken down and ordered the 318 myself.
Thanks to those who have reported it is a good fit with the S715!

I am not sure if it will be much of an improvement over my toshiba sd 3960, which is really quite good to my inexpert eyes, but I figured I'd spring for it anyway, mostly because I noticed a few artifacts on a few dvds with the tosh.

According to the Secrets review the 1080i component output of the Zenith is better than the DVI output.

Also, the Denon 1910 did not score very well in the Secrets review. It came up worse than the Zenith with some of the stranger flagged material.

I have a question. I went into the service menu, hilite the ISF option and press right arrow and presented with a black screen with a thin blue line in the middle. No other arrow keys worked in this screen. I thought they were supposed to be more menus.

Also with a CRT using component upconversion is definitely superior. The signal stays analog so there is no double conversion and chance for introduced artifacts.


I know people make fun of the reports/claims of it being called a "giant killer" but it's performance is just stellar. Combine that with it's price and it's worth many times what you can buy it for.


I just happened to finish watching another DVD on it and the PQ was much better then FOX's HD broadcast of the game this evening. (What little of the game I watched anyway ;) )

Originally posted by TexGuy
I have a question. I went into the service menu, hilite the ISF option and press right arrow and presented with a black screen with a thin blue line in the middle. No other arrow keys worked in this screen. I thought they were supposed to be more menus.
Most if not all of the options you need are exposed in the main service menu and don't need to be accessed in the ISF option.

I think you should press Enter to get into the ISF menu, not the right arrow though. I know when I get into the ISF menu I don't see the black screen with the single line running the middle of the screen. What you described is the first option in the service menu called "Service".

This should be what you see (less the test pattern) when you first get in the service menu. The blank screen with the horizontal lines is the first option called Service. Somehow you ended up there. You can get out of that by pressing exit once.

you are correct, Stereodude. I did entering into the service option. I am just browsing around to familiarize myself with these values before changing anything. :)

Originally posted by Stereodude
According to the Secrets review the 1080i component output of the Zenith is better than the DVI output.

Also, the Denon 1910 did not score very well in the Secrets review. It came up worse than the Zenith with some of the stranger flagged material.

Right, but if you can't get the early firmware versions, then it doesn't matter a whole lot. At least I assume so. Anyone know of any vendors that are still for sure selling the early ones? And how to ID that?

Where would I find these Secrets reviews please?

Also, has anyone checked the Sonys specs to see if it does upconvert on componet? I confess to being a newb and unless its written in an obvious manner, I don't know what to look for. I realize it doesn't come out til Novemeber-ish, so I'm waiting on reviews for it.

Originally posted by NeedAName
Right, but if you can't get the early firmware versions, then it doesn't matter a whole lot. At least I assume so. Anyone know of any vendors that are still for sure selling the early ones? And how to ID that?

Where would I find these Secrets reviews please?

Also, has anyone checked the Sonys specs to see if it does upconvert on componet? I confess to being a newb and unless its written in an obvious manner, I don't know what to look for. I realize it doesn't come out til Novemeber-ish, so I'm waiting on reviews for it.
Secrets --> http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/main.html

There basically aren't any name brand players other than the Zenith that will upconvert over component because the DVD Forum won't allow this to be done. The TV has an HDMI input, so I don't see why people trying to find a player that upconverts over component. I'd try to find the best player with DVI/HDMI output.

Just read thier review on the Zenith. If i hadn't read anything here on this forum praising, I never would have given it a second glance. At the very least I might have looked up other reviews, but theirs did not think to much of it from what i read.

I am seriously considering this set and was wondering what you guys think of the screen cover. Is there a big problem with glare? I have two windows that would be opposite the tv and was worrying about a glare problem. I have also been considering the 57x500, so if glare is an issue, I might go ahead and get the directors series for the deep black anti-glare shield. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks:)

I have good light control in my room with the 51S715 but I think that glare could easily by an issue. The screen seems very reflective.

I'm probably buying a 51S715 soon and am wondering if there are any other major issues besides the power on/off problem (fixable in Quick Start menu) and the glare thing. Can you buy aftermarket glare shields?

Another question. My current DirectTV box only has S-video... no component output. How will SD look on this set through S-video? I'll be getting the Direct HD package a little later on. Also, how are the stretch modes? I saw them in the store, but only briefly. What I saw looked pretty good but I want opinions from folks who have had a bit more time with the set.

Lastly, does anyone regret buying this set over another that they were considering? If so, why?

Thanks, from a HD 16:9 noob. :D

Slash007: The screen is quite reflective. During bright daytime viewing this can be annoying. Of course it depends on the material being viewed, for example I don't notice it during football games, which are sort of bright (or maybe I just become too engrossed in the games to notice).

Heinz Werner: HD is so beautiful on this set, I'd try and get the HD pack from D* right away. But do investigate whether you'll need waivers and so on to get some of the HD channels. I've been watching the LCS games in HD, and will watch the world series too in HD. Check out the HDTV Hardware Forum here, I bet D* is still giving great unadvertised deals. The key is to know what to ask for and to call customer retention, not the standard CSR types.

I will look into the hd pak. Thanks for the tip. I figured that except for weekends, most of my viewing will be night time, so it shouldn't be too big of an issue, except maybe if the family room light reflects off of it real bad. Personally, would you have spent 300-400 more for the directors series with the anit-glare shield? Anyone else that would advice me to get the x series for the shield?

slash007,
It's not just the $300-400 difference between the s and the x. With the x you would need to buy a separate HDTV tuner which is a few hundred dollars.

I have the S but here is a stupid question. What exactly does the tuner do?

The tuner is what allows you to view HD channels. Without it, you just get the regular cable stuff.

IMHO, lack of a glare shield is no big when you factor in 1) built in tuner and 2) Cable card slot to negate the need for a STB tuner. You'd be looking at roughly 600 or so to get the glare shield. (because you need the add on tuner)

There must be some kind of after market type stuff for these things.