The Toshiba DLP (HM/HMX) Owners Thread [Text View] - Page 2

malayvaghela

09-28-04, 11:21 AM

hi,

i think you bought the TV at Video only, can you call VO @ 925-829-2900 and talk to malay. some news about your TV..

Originally posted by varkus
I don't think you'll ever get a good/true upscaling picture from the Xbox as a DVD player. Even if the software you're using claims it does good upscaling, the best you're getting is a software-only upscaler which will probably be marginal at best...and you may actually be better off passing the signal straight to the TV without any processing at the Xbox at all. Also not sure how good the de-interlacer on the Xbox would be...which would also factor into the PQ.

A good upscaling DVD player (like the forthcoming Samsung HD941, and others) would actually have both hardware- (like a Faroudja chip) *and* software-based upscaling to improve the image. The Toshiba probably has a decent hardware/software scaler as well for converting everything to it's native 720p, although TVs typically can't rival a good, dedicated upscaling DVD player for PQ. I'd suggest playing with the different settings on the Xbox and, perhaps, even just passing a standard 480i signal to the TV and letting it do everything.

As far as calibration goes...you can search the forums for threads on what others have used for settings...but every TV is different. Your best bet, short of a professional ISF calibration, is to just go with a DVD calibration tool like Avia or Digital Video Essentials (DVE). You can get both of these online at places like Amazon.com and for about $40 can get all the tools and info you need to self-calibrate your set to a pretty decent picture (plus you'll probably learn some good info along the way). Short of that, you can 'eyeball' it...but that's really subjective and hard to quantify.

...and more pictures of setups are always a good thing! :)

threadz

09-28-04, 11:50 AM

Would anyone please give me the base dimensions of the 46HM84 or 94? I know the overall specs but need the footprint.

Thanks
ThreadZ

bee01

09-28-04, 12:54 PM

Ugh, so the Tosh DLPs throw gray bars onto 4:3 content? I still play a lot of 4:3 games, and have never liked stretch modes while gaming.

ndahbar

09-28-04, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by xb1032
- Was there any picture quality differences that you noticed between the
HM & HMX models?

- Also, just an FYI, the HM & HMX models only have 2 component inputs so you'll have to have some sort of switching for 3 component inputs.

No I actually never saw the HMX on display, just the HM. But they are exactly the same spec when it comes to the display pieces.

I know about the component port #. No problem, I got one of these:

http://www.audioauthority.com/aacconsumers/1154c.html

ndahbar

09-28-04, 06:44 PM

Originally posted by elmalloc
I saw the Toshiba 52HM84 at 2 different best buys. Of course, we shouldn't judge the sets by Best Buy, but I can't say it's the best DLP set I saw configured at either store. At the first store, the Mitsubishi (with hd tuner) 52" DLP (for about $3500) had better PQ. The second store, the Samsungs looked brighter, and both the Kirk and non Kirk samsung models looked better than the HM84. This is dissapointing because I really wanted to pick up the Toshiba. At $3500, the Mitsubishi is starting to get "too expensive" for me, and at hte 2nd best buy it looked pretty bad - once again we shouldn't be judging from the store - so it's quite hard to make a decision.

I won't be getting a Samsung because of their "laggy" video game play.

-ELmO

Elmo, trust me, you need to reconsider. It's a config issue at those stores you went to. The HD2+ Tosh sets look way better than the Sammy HD3 sets and every bit as good as the Kirk models (I saw those in 2 diff stores and both had the Kirks configured very nicely I must say). AND the 50 inch kirk woulda cost me almost $1000 more. Uhm, no brainer.

zeicht

09-28-04, 09:06 PM

Originally posted by kriore
Sorry, typo there. I meant the 5970, the brand new player that Toshiba replaced 5960 with. If 5960 is a POS, so is the successor; 5970. Bestbuy threw me the 5970 as a freebie when I purchased the 52HM84. I went and exchanged it for the Samsung.

shucks thats bad news..im planning to get the new toshiba hd/dvd recorder, the rd-xs52...im guessing it's generally similar with the 5970 with the HDMI et al...so i guess the PQ would be terrible too....damn!

thanks anyways!

elmalloc

09-28-04, 09:10 PM

Ndahbar,

The Toshiba has a pretty good picture. I have seen it up against the Mitsubishi 52525 (not 725 with less glare), and I have to say that the Mits wins it everytime with PQ. THe JVC DILA is very nice as well, to my eyes. I hate to say it, because I have a Toshiba 57" RPTV right now, and I really wanted to get the Toshiba 52 DLP. The question then is, do I spend $3100 total for a Toshiba 52hM84, or $3500 from best buy for the Mitsubishi 52-525 (or 725 when it comes out), or around $3000-3200 for the JVC DILA.

The choice is too hard. From 8 feet away, the Toshiba isn't performing as well as 8 feet away from the Mitsubishi. The Mits is pretty dark (with the glare shield).

-ELmO

David Scott

09-28-04, 10:48 PM

Just brought home the 52HMX84 along with the matching stand. Directv comes on Thursday to hook up HD. Sunday ticket and xbox this weekend for sure. I will post pictures and impressions once everything is hooked up and rolling.

varkus

09-28-04, 11:11 PM

Originally posted by David Scott
Just brought home the 52HMX84 along with the matching stand...

Pretty much ditto here - should have the HMX all set up by tomorrow night. We'll have to compare notes/photos/settings.

DemonSVT

09-29-04, 12:32 AM

All these pages and 2 of my key interests never came up once.

1. No one seems to have done any real calibration of their sets.
For instance does the standard menus allow for overscan correction?
What about fixing the 3 color configuration?

2. No one has listed available access to the service menus.
Does anyone know how to access them?

My short list is down to the Toshiba and the Panny.
The Panny thread has numerous calibrations, pictures, and access to the service manual posted. It is very reassuring that I can tune out any minor imperfections.

Even with that said the Toshiba is still at the top of my list for a few strong reasons. I am just hoping I can tune it like it should be so I can get the most out of the set.

malayvaghela

09-29-04, 01:25 AM

ru4real

09-29-04, 08:20 AM

SuperGoop

09-29-04, 09:37 AM

Has anyone done any geometry / convergence tests on the Toshiba xxHM84 or xxHMX84. A forum member from another thread did it on a JVC. Below is a picture of his test.

Geometry Test (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&attachmentid=27316)

If so, how did the Toshiba do? Was the geometry / convergence good?

varkus

09-29-04, 10:39 AM

After my 100 hour 'burn-in' time is up...I'll be putting my HMX through the Avia calibration so I'll check geometry at that time.

'Convergence' is a non-issue on these sets as they're single-chip DLP and do not have multiple lenses to focus/align.

tristanc

09-29-04, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by varkus
After my 100 hour 'burn-in' time is up...I'll be putty my HMX through the Avia calibration so I'll check geometry at that time.
What's the 100 hour burn-in supposed to accomplish?

--T.

varkus

09-29-04, 10:56 AM

Supposedly the nature of the DLP lamp is such that the bulb outputs slightly different light after the first 100 hours or so (I'm sure this is an arbitrary time, but most seem to use this as the benchmark). If you calibrate your set before that time, the light output/composition change of the bulb will skew some of your settings. Consequently, if you wait until you have about 100 hours on your set and calibrate, the settings supposedly stay truer longer.

(Then, of course, when you get to the end of the lamp's life the same thing happens as light output and composition slowly decay...but that's closer to the 8000 hour mark, or whatever the specs are for your particular bulb.)

YMMV

xb1032

09-29-04, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by David Scott
Just brought home the 52HMX84 along with the matching stand. Directv comes on Thursday to hook up HD. Sunday ticket and xbox this weekend for sure. I will post pictures and impressions once everything is hooked up and rolling.

David (or anyone else who owns an HMX), does the HMX series have any additional features in the user menu over the HM series? Are there any kind of RGB adjustments in the user menu other than the standard tint? Any information would be helpful as I'm deciding between the HM & HMX model. I want the HMX but I'll have to drive about 2 hours to get it and I'm not sure if Pieratt's will deal as much on the HMX as my local HH Gregg will on the HM.

martin45

09-29-04, 02:14 PM

Well I came to my senses and bought the 52" instead of the 62" and am I ever glad. One of my viewing seats is 10' max and the other 13'. More later.

My local dealer called last Friday to tell me the 52 was in if I wanted to come down and check it out while waiting for the 62. It was in a darkened room with a similar Samsung to one side and other various CRT, DLP and LCD sets in the same room....all RPTVs. I can't say that the picture was drastically different than those around it but it did seem to have a somewhat sharper, more three dimensional look. Let's just say that all things being equal, this is the set I would have bought if I had just wandered in off the street.

It was sitting on its stand and as a result the side speaker stigma (SSS) was basically a non issue.

I was watching a continuous loop HDTV off of a Zenith DVR and sat directly in front at about 15', which is two feet further back than I can sit at home. It was plenty large. I immediately came to my senses and said "when can you deliver it" and it arrived yesterday.

This is not my first RPTV. I had a 53" HDTV ready 4x3 Toshiba with seating at 12' up until my move about a year ago. Thus, I realize that when a picture doubles and triples in size, so does the blemishes.

Sooooo, here are my initial impressions.

1. For all the Standard Definition viewers out there (my girlfriend included); sorry, there is no magic elixir. I believe this set does as good, if not better than any other set of this size, a job of displaying the image as transmitted. What I am saying is that programs I receive via Dish Network 6000 HDTV receiver vary from pretty good and certainly watchable on USA to downright terrible and painfully watchable on the locals (transmitted from San Antonio) via Dish. This is not the problem of the TV but rather transmission policies. If SD if your only thing, stay with 32" direct view. The Toshiba stretch mode is great; I already don't notice it unless I remind my self.

2. Moulin Rouge, the dvd. Exquisite! And I mean right out of the box. After toning down the contrast it was sharp but similtaneously velvety. The colors explode, not bloom or bleed. I'm no expert, but the blacks are sure black enough for me. I then tuned it up (medium temperature, film mode, preference setting) with the AVIA disc, but with the exception of contrast and sharpness, it was pretty much right on. Once again I'm no expert but I didn't notice the "red push syndrome" (RPS).

I then put in Tina Turner in Amsterdam, a non anamorphic dvd, and played it through my Panasonic RP-91 and there were the expected jaggies but an otherwise good picture considering the source material. I then played it in the non-progressive mode to see if the set could do a better job on its own and I felt the picture was somewhat lacking and the jaggies were certainly as bad if not worse.

3. High Definition is where this set (and others) really shine. However dear viewers, there are also source material caveats here to be considered. Material filmed for HD come off much better than most movies and the such. HDNet is awesome; it sparkles with clarity as does most Discovery HD and live sports broadcasts. Law and Order SVU (OTA via my 6000) was very sharp and detailed. Do not however expect this same picture on TNTHD with 5 year old reruns of Law and Order or movies. I would describe TNT as being Half High Def (HHD). A really good picture but not in the class as HDNet or a live sporting event......kinda like an ok (not great) dvd. Also, this morning I watched "Intolerable Cruelty" on HBOHD. This was a terrible picture color-wise. Everything was pink (could it be the dreaded RPS?). I rushed over to HDNet and all was well and beautiful. Once again, source material. After knocking down the contrast in half and adjusting the color and tint, it was an alright picture; pretty sharp but still not near stellar.....have you ever noticed the scar on Catherine Zeta-Jones-Douglas throat? Thryoid at a young age I imagine.

4. I personally have no desire to go into the service menu. I have already messed up enough things; I'll leave it to the experts. In fact, after I get a couple thousand or so hours and the technology is more commonplace, I may look into an ISF calibration. Maybe, maybe not. It is mighty sweet just as she sits. By the way....Overscan. While I was watching all the tvs together at the store, this set seemed to have less or the same as the others. There were a couple that really lost a considerable amount of the picture but I didn't note which they were. Also, on all sources, this unit seems to not lose any definition around the edges or in the corners.

Gamers: Sorry, that's not my thing so I have no info for you there, other than to say that action sequences in HD came off very well.

I am happy with my purchase. With the coming years of "all HDTV all the time", it is a good thing. I think we are reaching a point of diminishing returns when it comes to video transmission. There is only so little much more the human eye can detect and assimilate.

Is this set better than the rest? I honestly believe it is as good as any of the others; I don't know about better. I liked the Mits 65" that was on the floor. The Sony LCD (?) was superb. The Sammies looked quite similar to the Toshiba, just not quite the clarity. The RCA lacked a little something and I couldn't recommend it.....maybe it just needed tuning up. They were no Panasonics. None of the CRTs on the floor had as crisp a picture as the Tosh or the Mits.....convergence issues which can be continually corrected; probably. So, do the research on reliability, factory tech support, overscan and other possible concerns which may be brand specific and uncorrectable. The thing is, once you get your choice home, there is nothing with which to compare it to. It will absolutely, without a doubt, be the best looking TV in your living room/home theater.

Think I'll go eat now. Regards.

kriore

09-29-04, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by DemonSVT
All these pages and 2 of my key interests never came up once.

1. No one seems to have done any real calibration of their sets.
For instance does the standard menus allow for overscan correction?
What about fixing the 3 color configuration?

2. No one has listed available access to the service menus.
Does anyone know how to access them?

My short list is down to the Toshiba and the Panny.
The Panny thread has numerous calibrations, pictures, and access to the service manual posted. It is very reassuring that I can tune out any minor imperfections.

Even with that said the Toshiba is still at the top of my list for a few strong reasons. I am just hoping I can tune it like it should be so I can get the most out of the set.

DemonSVT, No offense but why would you want to fix something that aint broken. Atleast that is my philosophy. Ofcourse talking about myself and my set, I can barely see any imperfections on a good HD signal or good DVD, so I am not really motivated to get into the service menu and see if there is anything else to be done. May be there is, but I am not interested to do right now. I am really busy watching the set and enjoying it :-) However, I did check for geometry imperfections using the calibration disk (video essentials) and I could not find any.

There are instructions in this thread about how to get into service menu, do a search.

varkus

09-29-04, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by xb1032
David (or anyone else who owns an HMX), does the HMX series have any additional features in the user menu over the HM series? Are there any kind of RGB adjustments in the user menu other than the standard tint? Any information would be helpful as I'm deciding between the HM & HMX model. I want the HMX but I'll have to drive about 2 hours to get it and I'm not sure if Pieratt's will deal as much on the HMX as my local HH Gregg will on the HM.

I don't see anything in the UM that seems any different than the HM (although without an HM to compare to side-by-side, there could be minor differences).

As far as RGB/picture controls go, though - they seem the same.

martin45

09-29-04, 06:18 PM

I can't imagine there would be any variation in the software governing the RGB adjustments. It would only please a very small minority of buyers and give the technicians headaches. Not very cost effective.

I liked the earlier post stating "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". I compare this new "don't need to fiddle with it" technology with the older cars that had to routinely have the plugs, points, carb etc. serviced. Now it is 100,000 miles of voooomm before one has to worry with it. I, for one, am fond of this new technology......I am quite happy that I don't have to recalibrate my new set every quarter.

cmonsammy

09-29-04, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by DemonSVT
...
My short list is down to the Toshiba and the Panny.
The Panny thread has numerous calibrations, pictures, and access to the service manual posted. It is very reassuring that I can tune out any minor imperfections.

Even with that said the Toshiba is still at the top of my list for a few strong reasons. I am just hoping I can tune it like it should be so I can get the most out of the set.

I'm down to the same two sets. What are the "few strong reasons" for you to favor the Toshiba?

aerospace0007

09-29-04, 08:43 PM

I just received the 52hm84 today and SD looks pretty unwatchable, but the HD channels look very nice.

I did expect the PC to look amazingly good, but to my surprise, it looks like crap and I will be returning the TV back to best buy and just use my crt monitor instead. At first I had a little trouble even getting the tv to show anything at all from the PC, so I had to hook up my monitor to select the correct resolutions which took some time. And now if I want to play a PC game I can't see the intoductory scenes because the resolutions change automatically and sometimes even the options menus don't display because of different resolutions; so if anything other than the desktop resolution is displayed, the picture won't show up.

Overall I am disappointed by this set and all other dlp's and lcd's and have reallized that this technology is not quite ready yet but probably will within five years, so I will stick with my CRT TV until then.

jdowdle

09-29-04, 09:34 PM

Well, I got a Sharp 37g4u for my office 2 weeks ago, and it is great. Does loose PC sync occasionally when the picture changes, and I have to autosync it again, and this is annoying, but playing games and dvds from pc,and hdtv looks terrific, depending on source material, and I really dont have much desire to look at SD analog anymore, but it is not that bad. I just have no desire to look at it because SD digital, and HDTV particularly look so great.

Obviously I am very pleased. I bet an LCD rear projection would work as well. I notice playing games with the contrast ratio "limitations" of lcd, I can see a lot more detail than I did on my 19 inch Princeton monitor. I wonder why that is? adjustment of the monitor?

Now I go in dark rooms in first person shooter games, and I see what my competition cannot see.

Yes the blacks are not as black as other new technologies, but it works for me. Life is too short to wait!

Jim

colorgrafx

09-29-04, 10:28 PM

I have been looking at rear projection DLP TV's (Samsung HLP5063W and Toshiba 52HM84) and notice a bowing of the image (similar to pincushion distortion) near the top and bottom of the image when viewing 4:3 formatted video. Was told by local service rep this is inherent to RP-DLP... Is this true? Anyone else experience the issue? If it is a known issue, why do the manufacturer's not identify it?

nickindc03

09-29-04, 11:46 PM

tristanc

09-29-04, 11:54 PM

Originally posted by colorgrafx
I have been looking at rear projection DLP TV's (Samsung HLP5063W and Toshiba 52HM84) and notice a bowing of the image (similar to pincushion distortion) near the top and bottom of the image when viewing 4:3 formatted video. Was told by local service rep this is inherent to RP-DLP... Is this true? Anyone else experience the issue? If it is a known issue, why do the manufacturer's not identify it?

Interesting. I hadn't noticed this till your post. I measured it and found on my 62 inch there was indeed a bowing of less than a 1/4 of an inch at the mid point. That means the top and bottom are roughly a 1/4 of an inch wider than the middle.

Weird. And now that I see it, it's irrating. :(

--T.

DemonSVT

09-30-04, 01:35 AM

Originally posted by ru4real
Wrong about interest #2, it did come up. Access to the service menu was covered. Search this thread for "service menu".
Damn. After about 40 hrs worth of reading on this site in the last month I certainly did miss it. (maybe I've started scanning too quickly???)

Page 2 - dated 8/31

Thank you. I think that seals the deal.

aerospace0007

09-30-04, 02:16 AM

I also see the bowing of the image of 4:3 material and actually saw it the first time I powered up the TV, and I would also find it irritating if I knew that I would keep the TV.

ndahbar

09-30-04, 02:29 AM

What's up folks,

My full-featured review of my 52HMX84 is not ready yet, as I have to optimize everything still. Today, I got the TV delivered and I hooked everything up (Silver TechCraft matching stand, very nice).

I have yet to even read 10% of the manual. I have yet to use AVIA (kinda did the basic stuff but that's essentially useless compared to the advanced things as well as doing ISF calib).

I also got my Denon DVD-1910 player and a DVI-to-HDMI cable, and hooked it up. I am not sure what to say about it right now. I perhaps shouldn't cuz I still am yet to figure many things out. But I'll leave you with the following (PLEASE again let me note I need to properly configure EVERYTHING before I can make useful info-sharing with you guys):

* There is DEFINITELY a *HUGE* difference between 480p and 720p
* I could not tell any diff between 720p and 1080i
* I did not see any "shimmering" or "2-3 pixel positions dancing" effects when displaying 1080i which several on this forum have reported with the 1910 (not specifically with our HM/HMX sets, but just in general in the DVD Player threads)
* There definitely appears to be this "clay face" phenomenom going on with my TV as with others here in the thread. I fiddled with settings a bit and seem to have lowered it, I dunno, is this a major issue for us Tosh DLP HD2+ owners? I need to eliminate this, if I am to be a happy camper...

Oh, I didn't try any 720p Xbox titles yet. Just 480i/p quick tests for xbox, ps2, and gamecube. I have previously used S-video on a 32 inch Sharp SD CRT, and I cannot tell much diff right now.

Ok well, the only thing "worrying" me now is the grainyness "clay face" of the picture, but even there I'm not sure if I'm smoking something. See, in the store, on display, I noticed it too once, but I noticed that on ALL the TVs in their display room too! LCD DLP you name it, Sony XBR, Hitachi, Samsung, etc. so when my friend noticed it too and mentioned it to me, I told him that it must be the source signal, cuz look, all the TVs showing this grainy film kinda in front of the pic. A week before, I went to the same store and I saw a gorgeous pic on the HM/HMX on display (46 inch though) and an AMAZING hi-def PQ.

I dont have hi-def yet but Voom is coming to be installed on Friday.

Ok sorry for the long post, but just a heads up as I know some of you were waiting for my review of my HT with this TV. I am admittedly a NOOB when it comes to advanced display configuration and "artifact hunting" but I think I will learn very, very quickly in the next few days, and from even further reading. :)

Last but not least, no, I am not freaking out about anything, even the denon 1910, I ain't returning anything, I need to make sure what's really up and what's the best I can display with calib and what not. Besides, even if it turns out the PQ of the Denon is disappointing and pretty much unacceptable, I am gonna KEEP it and get at a future date perhaps the Zenith 318 and/or the upcoming Sammy HD-941 to compare. Dammit, it sux not to be filthy-rich btw. :p

sprintcar

09-30-04, 03:35 AM

I AM a newToshiba DLP (62HMX84) owner, Set will be here next week cant wait. Am a Newbie at this so help would be greatly appreceated. Question runnen the PC to the TV VIA HDMI i know there is no device yet that conects HDMI into the PC but what about DVI to HDMI. There are such devices in PCs that enable DVI to HMDI to work just need to know the cheapest and best way to go if there is any way to go LOL since TV i will have has 2 HDMI outputs. I know the wire isnt cheap cause i have to run 35FT of it that being HDMI cable and another quesrion is that too long of a run Foe HDMI and wouild it lowere the sinal i heard it will not just wondered if anyone else knows of anyone runnen that length or more having any problems just need to know which way to do it, That is run PC to TV. there has to be out there a reasonable priced card or soloution just need some help thats all. I now have a radieon7000 with tv out but does not have DVI out just rca and svideo and do not want to have to take it out thought there might be someother expansion card tuner card what ever that has DVI that way i can get a DVI to HDMI conecter and run HDMI cable to TV as long as i dont lose the sig quality in that far of a run. Help Please Sprincar:confused: :confused:

ndahbar

09-30-04, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by sprintcar
I AM a newToshiba DLP (62HMX84) owner, Set will be here next week cant wait. Am a Newbie at this so help would be greatly appreceated. Question runnen the PC to the TV VIA HDMI i know there is no device yet that conects HDMI into the PC but what about DVI to HDMI. There are such devices in PCs that enable DVI to HMDI to work just need to know the cheapest and best way to go if there is any way to go LOL since TV i will have has 2 HDMI outputs. I know the wire isnt cheap cause i have to run 35FT of it that being HDMI cable and another quesrion is that too long of a run Foe HDMI and wouild it lowere the sinal i heard it will not just wondered if anyone else knows of anyone runnen that length or more having any problems just need to know which way to do it, That is run PC to TV. there has to be out there a reasonable priced card or soloution just need some help thats all. I now have a radieon7000 with tv out but does not have DVI out just rca and svideo and do not want to have to take it out thought there might be someother expansion card tuner card what ever that has DVI that way i can get a DVI to HDMI conecter and run HDMI cable to TV as long as i dont lose the sig quality in that far of a run. Help Please Sprincar:confused: :confused:

Got dvigear.com, they have a great selection of cables/adapters. I personally got a DVI-to-HDMI cable for my DVD player and it works perfect. Also got a DVI-to-HDMI adapter for the DVI-DVI cable that comes with my Voom receiver, so I can use it with the TV. I have not yet tried my PC, maybe in a week or so I will try it (using the DVD cable).

sprintcar

09-30-04, 01:49 PM

Thanks ndahbar for imfo just wondering if there is a cable superstore in Canada will kill me in charges for shipping and exchange if i get from USA. The other question is can u make a run with HDMI cable of 35 RT and get a good signal to run the PC to TV. I heard throught he grapevine HDMI has virtually no sig loss just a rumer i heard though what ya sugest for a card expansion card with DVI out or tuner Card with DVI out. I know cable for HDMI is fairly expensive just have spent so much on new TV budget is dwindeling LOL thanks again for your fast reply maybe someone has some more answers i hope
Sprintcar:o :confused:

ndahbar

09-30-04, 02:37 PM

Sprint, read this: http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/interconnects/DVIHDMI.php

But then, I think you're all set, check the bottom of this page:

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/support/dvihdmi.jsp

ru4real

09-30-04, 02:37 PM

Look at www.bluejeanscable.com and www.ramelectronics.net for DVI-HDMI cables.

You can find 40ft for ~170 USD and 50ft for 185 USD at bluejeanscable. An option is to use a cheaper DVI cable and a DVI-HDMI adapter (30 USD on www.pricegrabber.com), but someone more experienced or knowledgeable will need to advise you on possible signal loss for these lengths.

sprintcar

09-30-04, 03:35 PM

Thanks so much for that site ndahbar that helped me out so much but am sad to learn that with that length i am SOL so much for useing my new Toshiba with my PC god damn that was a real good artical on that i guess next best soloution would be to bye another PCset it next to TV, network it to my PC upstairs and run the net and MOvies from it that will be costly though **** another $1000. Right now i have a radieon 7000 tv out card hookes just basic rca's from PC video out card upstairs to 10 yr old Hatachi 36 in TV downstairs and have a logtech wireless keyboard and mouse which i use downstairs too or upstairs as i have 2 recievers one for upstairs and one for downstairs. Desktop shows up good on Hitachi TV with 40 ft of cheap RCA cable runnen to it can see icons but hard to read the writing as it is small andf resolution and picture quality is poor but it plays my movies great good pic good colour and so on sound is bad though but every thing is in anolog sig card to TV etc just thought when i get my new Toshiba 62HMX84 picture quality would improve with the right cables and card but i know now that runnen 35 ft will be a problem maybe someone else on site has done this application with longer length and has used HDMI to DVI and can help before i have to go out and spend another $1000 and get another PC for downstairs . Once againdahbar and ru4real thanks very much for your imfo and prompt reply get back to me if ya hear anything else guys
Sprintcar

sprintcar

09-30-04, 07:04 PM

Guys what would be a resonable card to use with a DVI out so when i get this HDMI cable if i get it lol. The budjet is sinking LOL. I guess the cards will be expensive to hey? Just want to find the most inexpensive but good card to use if that makes sence.
Thanks Again Sprintcar

ndahbar

09-30-04, 08:25 PM

Hey Sprint, I would suggest u just live with the TV sans PC for now, and then like in a few months get yourself a 2nd PC or laptop which would sit right by your TV. :D

Hell, I think *I* am gonna do that (Jan/Feb get new PC).

varkus

09-30-04, 08:45 PM

Finally have my 52HMX84 in-house and largely set up - haven't had time for a thorough review, although detailed impressions are pending...stay tuned.

In the mean time, for those who are interested - you can check out my "Gallery" (link at the top of this message) for some interim shots of the HMX in action. Some of the shots are less than thrilling...but that's more or less the fault of my photography skills and so-so digital camera than it is the TV.

So far...the HMX is *gorgeous*.

DLP Type R

09-30-04, 09:39 PM

Varkus,
I think the black bezel looks pretty good...I always feared it would expose the side speakers too much.

No offence tho, your pics don't do the TV any justice.
I'll post some pics when I get a chance.

ndahbar

09-30-04, 10:24 PM

Originally posted by DLP Type R
Varkus,
I think the black bezel looks pretty good...I always feared it would expose the side speakers too much.

No offence tho, your pics don't do the TV any justice.
I'll post some pics when I get a chance.

Same here.

Anyway folks, those of us with this TV, let's keep a close eye on DVD playback image quality and what not. I still see some graininess of sorts with even the THX-mastered Terminator2 DVD at 720p. When I pause on a very close up shot of an actor's face, it looks VERY sharp clear and detailed. But in general when just watching a slow-panning scene it isn't razor-sharp. I dunno, maybe I just have to adjust cuz TV is so big compared to my old. Also I shouldn't judge until I get HD. AND until I calib properly!!!

****EDIT****: Ok now not so sure, I put in Gladiator, damn it looks awesome. No clay faces. WTF? I guess i need to study this thing a lot more....

tristanc

09-30-04, 11:44 PM

Originally posted by ndahbar
****EDIT****: Ok now not so sure, I put in Gladiator, damn it looks awesome. No clay faces. WTF? I guess i need to study this thing a lot more....
I know what you mean. Some things look unbelievable, others, not so much. I watched one DVD that had this photoquality look to it that just knocked my socks off. Then, something like Master & Commander has some stunning scenes, but just as often has some bad scenes.

Some analog channels have looked very good (non-streteched) but the next day I'm seeing nothing but clay faces. (Same with my digital channels and the few HD channels, only most often these look amazing and very seldom do they look poor.)

Anyway, I'm currently blaming it on source. I think some DVDs are just encoded or mastered better than others and obviously some channels are just going to be received better depending on the day. Just my initial gut reaction.

--T.

ndahbar

09-30-04, 11:53 PM

Originally posted by tristanc

Anyway, I'm currently blaming it on source. I think some DVDs are just encoded or mastered better than others and obviously some channels are just going to be received better depending on the day. Just my initial gut reaction.

--T.

And 'tis a good 'un. I concur. Also, I think the massive size of 52/62 inches just highlights less-than-perfect instances much more so than many of us are used to.

Anyway enough half-assed reviews from me. I promise you all a VERY thorough and comprehensive review of the TV soon. :cool:

DemonSVT

10-01-04, 12:47 AM

Originally posted by cmonsammy
I'm down to the same two sets. {Toshiba & Panny} What are the "few strong reasons" for you to favor the Toshiba?
You can set the calibrations for each input instead of just 3 pre-labeled modes.

From what I saw in person at several shops and have read here it does better with SD and has an excellent and adaptable stretch mode.
I personally do not really like "stretching" content but I watch an extremely high amount of Anime and it does lend itself well to widescreen.

At the time the Panny had comments about skewed letterbox/side bands. However a few reports have popped up about the Toshiba so that's a wash at this point. The service menu should fix those ails though.

Sears's price match policy! (LOCAL authorized dealer at below online pricing) This one is huge because of the fears of getting a bad set (OTB bad or damaged in shipping) and the re-shipping and logistical nightmares.

Cons:
Grey bars! I sat and watched one for a while at a shop and they are not "too" bad considering the silver bezel and case.
Makes me wonder if the HMX has gray bars and a black bezel??? YIKES!

1 less component output. Not an issue here.

I only have the need for 1 digital & 2 component.
If I get an upscaling DVD (I have a nice progressive now) I will just buy a quality switcher. It's well worth the money to save signal quality plus it leaves room to grow.
However either set only has 1 digital input. That's kind of weak really but not a pressing issue at this time.

David Scott

10-01-04, 12:57 AM

Frantically put together the stand, placed my receiver etc along with way too many speaker cables just in time for directv to show up and install hi-def.
In fact I'd only had my HMX turned on long enough to get to the scene where Smeagol dives in for fish when I heard the knock at the door. "Good timing" I said, "just turned it on for the first time".
All went well and HD is now my precious. I can't give much but a few initial impressions, but I must say "Wow" to HD football. I turned on ESPN HD to find the Navy vs Air Force game. It had a 3D type quality to it and I was very impressed. You could see the wrinkles on the uniforms and every pimple on the players face. I can't wait for Sunday Ticket this weekend. I watched a little Bond 007 on Showtime HD, once again very sweet. SD on directv, acceptable but no where close to HD. The receiver I got was the Samsung (I was hoping for the Hughes), but so far no complaints. It came with a DVI connector which is useless to me. Popped into Best Buy and they want $149 for a DVI to HDMI cable....outrageous!
One more thing, went back and forth from ESPN SD to ESPN HD on the college game just to compare, man what a difference. If you buy a DLP better get on board with HD because you won't want to watch anything else once you do. This weekend I'll post some xbox pictures and more impressions.

mgonzales

10-01-04, 02:44 PM

Originally posted by colorgrafx
I have been looking at rear projection DLP TV's (Samsung HLP5063W and Toshiba 52HM84) and notice a bowing of the image (similar to pincushion distortion) near the top and bottom of the image when viewing 4:3 formatted video. Was told by local service rep this is inherent to RP-DLP... Is this true? Anyone else experience the issue? If it is a known issue, why do the manufacturer's not identify it?

I went to best buy and held a straight edge up to 4:3 materials on the Toshiba, Samsung, LG, and Mistubishi and all of them showed "bowing" - slight in or even out in bow in some instances... i guess this is normal?? it was the first thing I noticed when i powered up my Toshiba at home.

Is this indeed normal folks? If not I need to know so I can get some service.

- m

DLP Type R

10-01-04, 03:19 PM

I have bowing too and have seen it in stores also.

sprintcar

10-01-04, 06:36 PM

Hi guys its me again i promise not to talk about HDMI or PC to TV LOL. Does anybody here have a 62HMX84 mine has not arrived yet thank god am building cabinet for it and my entertainment system. Need to know measurements from edge of TV to base of TV and how thick the base is as it is not a flat bottom. Salesman did not have those measurements for me we had the 52HMX84 measurements but thats no good to me lol. i will have to build the stand up i am incorperating into the cabinet. Just need to know how far it is from edge of tv to base of tv and how thick the base is it would be much appreceated if someone knows this imfo as i am now stalled on the cabinet would like to finish when the tv gets here sometime next week. Take care everyone and have a great weekend especialy on your big screens lol.
Sprintcar

ndahbar

10-01-04, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by David Scott
Frantically put together the stand, placed my receiver etc along with way too many speaker cables just in time for directv to show up and install hi-def.
In fact I'd only had my HMX turned on long enough to get to the scene where Smeagol dives in for fish when I heard the knock at the door. "Good timing" I said, "just turned it on for the first time".
All went well and HD is now my precious. I can't give much but a few initial impressions, but I must say "Wow" to HD football. I turned on ESPN HD to find the Navy vs Air Force game. It had a 3D type quality to it and I was very impressed. You could see the wrinkles on the uniforms and every pimple on the players face. I can't wait for Sunday Ticket this weekend. I watched a little Bond 007 on Showtime HD, once again very sweet. SD on directv, acceptable but no where close to HD. The receiver I got was the Samsung (I was hoping for the Hughes), but so far no complaints. It came with a DVI connector which is useless to me. Popped into Best Buy and they want $149 for a DVI to HDMI cable....outrageous!
One more thing, went back and forth from ESPN SD to ESPN HD on the college game just to compare, man what a difference. If you buy a DLP better get on board with HD because you won't want to watch anything else once you do. This weekend I'll post some xbox pictures and more impressions.

Dave, thanks for that. I am installing VOOM next week, so I will include its review in my upcoming super-review to be posted in this thread. BTW I got a cable from dvigear.com for 60 bucks DVI to HDMI. Works awesome.

ay221

10-01-04, 09:07 PM

Originally posted by mgonzales
I went to best buy and held a straight edge up to 4:3 materials on the Toshiba, Samsung, LG, and Mistubishi and all of them showed "bowing" - slight in or even out in bow in some instances... i guess this is normal?? it was the first thing I noticed when i powered up my Toshiba at home.

Is this indeed normal folks? If not I need to know so I can get some service.

- m

Do you know if Best Buy is selling the 62 inch? I went online and only saw the 52.

sprintcar

10-01-04, 09:42 PM

AY221 i bought mine in Alberta Canada at Future Shop but it has not arrived am busy with cabinet but am stalled right now due to no measurements for the base guess i will have to wait for some imfo have a good one if ya hear of any measurements let me know please Thanks Sprintcar heyNdahbar luckey you for getting direct tv we dont get such a thing here in canada just lousey Canaidian Sat as for HD they only have 5 channels on HD so will have to wait till more arrives or someway direct tv gets into Canada but wont hold my breath LOL Happy watching out there. Sprintcar

flanders

10-01-04, 10:03 PM

someone had asked if this was a 6 or 7 segment wheel a few pages back that went unanswered and it does not state what it is , would anyone know what it uses?

cmonsammy

10-01-04, 11:01 PM

Originally posted by DemonSVT
...I only have the need for 1 digital & 2 component.
If I get an upscaling DVD (I have a nice progressive now) I will just buy a quality switcher. It's well worth the money to save signal quality plus it leaves room to grow.
However either set only has 1 digital input. That's kind of weak really but not a pressing issue at this time.

Have you considered upgrading your DVD player to the Zenith DVB-318? It currently can upscale to 1080i using the component interface, but a recent firmware upgrade fixed the bug and removed this capability, and the updated units will soon be all you can buy. This player allows you to use the single HDMI port for an HDTV tuner, avoiding (or at least delaying) the need for a DVI switch. If I get the 52HM84, that's how I'll configure it.

ay221

10-01-04, 11:38 PM

Originally posted by sprintcar
AY221 i bought mine in Alberta Canada at Future Shop but it has not arrived am busy with cabinet but am stalled right now due to no measurements for the base guess i will have to wait for some imfo have a good one if ya hear of any measurements let me know please

No I just no the H * W * D measurement of the entire set, not the base portion. Here is the manual though, incase you haven't seen it yet.

http://tacpservice.toshiba.com/ConsumerProductSupport/Manuals/TV/2004/46_52_62HM84.pdf

ndahbar

10-02-04, 04:18 AM

Anyone know what the contrast ratio is for these Toshiba HD2+ sets?

SuperGoop

10-02-04, 11:21 AM

I just had a thought... if the 52" and 62" both have the same light bulb (I *think* it is 120W), wouldn't the 62" be less bright, less vibrant colour, etc.

I was planning to buy the 62", but haven't had a chance to see one on display yet. I will wait to see the 62" before committing. I am satisfied with the 52", but that doesn't mean that the 62" will be just as good.

I hope there is more to the 62" than simply changing the focal length of the lens to make the image larger (and therefore weaker).

subbedout

10-02-04, 12:12 PM

I've just received my 52HM84 and at first I was impressed (as I was in the showroom). Then after a while, I noticed some red and green fringing around certain edges, for example, along the outline of a person's hair with a light background. Has anyone else seen anything like this?

I'm going to investigate further and try to ascertain whether it's when I'm viewing analog 480i, or HD content, but I'm far from impressed with Comcast HD cable which could just as easily be causing it with bad compression (or no?).

ru4real

10-04-04, 08:31 AM

Are Toshiba DLPs available at any Circuit City stores? I checked two in my area and they don't carry any Toshiba televisions. All the salesperson said when I asked about a Toshiba DLP is "Samsung is the DLP market leader". I didn't bother to reply.

jbiel

10-04-04, 08:55 AM

As of last night, I just purchased a Toshiba 46" Widescreen HD-Ready Rear-Projection TV with HDMI Input & 2-Tuner PIP - Metallic Black
Model: 46H84 from BB.

I take delivery on Thursday and will have Cox HD Service that same day.

tristanc

10-04-04, 09:18 AM

Originally posted by subbedout
I've just received my 52HM84 and at first I was impressed (as I was in the showroom). Then after a while, I noticed some red and green fringing around certain edges, for example, along the outline of a person's hair with a light background. Has anyone else seen anything like this?
I have seen this once or twice, and it was usually related to poor quality of the feed. I've never seen this with DVD.

--T.

martin45

10-04-04, 03:22 PM

All things being equal and correct, I believe after a full week of heavy viewing that the 52HM84 does everything it is suppose to do.

SD is basically marginal and highly dependent on the source material just like it is on any other 50+" RPTV, regardless of technology.

The REALLY< >REALLY High Def source material will knock your socks off, mainly HDNet and some DiscoveryHD and most of the live sporting events. HD network dramas (Law & Order and the such) look very good, but not jaw dropping.

Some DVDs will look better than others.

This unit is all I expected it to be and not much more. It is certainly (picture quality wise) as good if not better than any other unit that I have seen.

So, is HD a conspiracy by which manufacturers will now be able to sell "big screens" as they once sold 27s"? If the proliferation of HD programming wasn't in our immediate future, I would certainly not have moved up from my really great looking Panasonic 32" direct view.

xb1032

10-04-04, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by sprintcar
Does anybody here have a 62HMX84 mine has not arrived yet thank god am building cabinet for it and my entertainment system. Need to know measurements from edge of TV to base of TV and how thick the base is as it is not a flat bottom. Salesman did not have those measurements for me we had the 52HMX84 measurements but thats no good to me lol.

Well, while I don't know the exact dimensions off the top of my head I have a general idea. I purchased the 62HM84 last Wednesday and picked it up Thursday. I built a custom entertainment center and had the Samsung HLN617W. Fortunately I planned ahead and sold the Sammy about 3 months ago and got the Toshiba. I 'modded my entertainment center and could not leave a gap below the side speakers on the Toshiba (or else the cats would end up in the entertainment center). Totally off the top of my head I believe it was about 8 or nine inches from the side to the base and about 6 inches height on the base. I'm at work now so I don't know for sure. I'll try to take some pics tonight and post them.

Hopefully we'll get a knowledgable tech on here soon to provide us with some service menu details for color adjustments and geometry adjustments. I also would think there would be something in the Service menu as far as black enhancement goes. I think there's a little black crush going on with the Toshiba DLPs and it'd be nice to do some testing since Toshiba didn't put any kind of black enhancement adjustments in the user menu like Hitachi, Mitsubishis, and RCA did.

subbedout

10-04-04, 08:24 PM

Originally posted by tristanc
I have seen this once or twice, and it was usually related to poor quality of the feed. I've never seen this with DVD.

Thanks tristanc, I've been playing with the TV and cable box (Comcast) a little and it looks like it's just an ugly feed for some of the ota HD channels that they pipe through (ABC, NBC, etc) as DiscoveryHD looks incredible.

Second goof: I saw the Tosh SD-5970 upconverting player in BB and picked one up - I'm equally unimpressed with it as I am with the cable feed. Anyone have a better suggestion to use with this set? (The 5970 cost $179). Looks like the Bravo D2 is a possibility. Ideally, upconversion over component would be neat.

kriore

10-04-04, 08:59 PM

Originally posted by subbedout
Thanks tristanc, I've been playing with the TV and cable box (Comcast) a little and it looks like it's just an ugly feed for some of the ota HD channels that they pipe through (ABC, NBC, etc) as DiscoveryHD looks incredible.

Second goof: I saw the Tosh SD-5970 upconverting player in BB and picked one up - I'm equally unimpressed with it as I am with the cable feed. Anyone have a better suggestion to use with this set? (The 5970 cost $179). Looks like the Bravo D2 is a possibility. Ideally, upconversion over component would be neat.

Yep; the Tosh 5970 is a POS. I exchanged it with the much maligned Samsung HD841 and pretty happy with it. I guess Samsung "fixed" most of the issues with HD841. The concensus in the DVD player threads seems to be that the HD841's made after June-04 are suposed to be good; the one I picked up was made in Aug, 04. You might want to try that. Keep in mind though that you will need an DVI-HDMI cable or adapter.

sharonf

10-05-04, 01:09 AM

I have been seriously looking at the Toshiba 52HM84 but have been waiting after hearing about the 52HM94 which has an an integrated HDTV Tuner. However I live in an area with lots of mountains where it is really not possible to receive signals with just the cable-card and integrated tuner. So, is it really worth paying several hundred more dollars just to get the 52HM94?

elmalloc

10-05-04, 07:12 AM

Just to let all know, I have been loyal and purchased a TOshiba 46Hm84 for my room. I bought my parents a Toshiba 57H82 a few years ago for XMas, and it's been perfect.

-ELmO

videobruce

10-05-04, 07:51 AM

No offense but why would you want to fix something that aint broken. Atleast that is my philosophy.Because it's there.......nothing wrong with at least knowing how to enter the service menu even if you aren't planning to do anything!
KNOWLEDGE IS POWER.

ndahbar

10-05-04, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by Victor Nowik

The first day or so I had my unit (this is day 5) I was feeling eyestrain and
was freaking that I would not be able to adjust to DLP. The computer
output expecially made my eyes hurt. But after another few days I dont
notice it at all. I feel I have adapted and gotten used to it and now just
love it w/o discomfort.

Interesting. I also feel eye fatigue as a brand new owner for the first few days, but I hope I will adjust as you have. I sit less than 10 ft (more like 8) away from the TV, so that probably isn't helping (I have the 52 inch).

Thanks for sharing the issue's progress for yourself with us. I was getting worried the most about that. And yeah, I see rainbows quite easily now (DVD with dark scene). I am trying not to let it bother me.

xb1032

10-05-04, 11:00 AM

Sprintcar,

I took measurements of my 62HM84 this morning for you.

The base is about 5-7/8" from the bottom to the top of the base.
The side of the unit to the base is about 7-7/8" tall.

Hope that helps.

KevinSDiego

10-05-04, 11:50 AM

sharonf,
I'm about to go for the 46HM94. The 94 series is definitely worth the extra $300 or so you'd pay. It also has dolby digital out, slots for CF or SD memory flash card, cable card, 2 firewire ports, TV guide on screen.....
I just wish they made a 46" HMX94.

xb1032

10-05-04, 12:43 PM

After a weekend with my 62HM84 I'd have to say that for the most part I'm pleased. Last year I purchased a Samsung HLN617W and sold it near the end of June. The flaws with the Samsung that drove me to selling it were:

1. Black levels in low lighting were poor.
2. Dark scenes were poor.

After having to live with a 27" TV for 3 months :( , I finally made my purchase. Thankfully last year I got a great deal on the Samsung and sold it for a good price margin. My local HH Gregg (who is the reason I got the great deal the first time around) gave me 20% off my 62HM84:D. Thus making my upgrade cost just under $208 (This is based off of what I got out of my old Sammy, the price for the Toshiba, a 5 year warranty that covers the bulb, and tax). Not to mention that my warranty would be down to 3 years on the Sammy now and on the Toshiba I have a 5 year warranty!

My experience with the Samsung was mainly DVDs and Xbox/Gamecube games. A couple of things that I've noticed is that black levels a significantly better on the Toshiba. In fact, blacks look excellent until it's dark. When viewing at night with the lights on or dimmed, black levels will decrease a little but they still look good. Now, if you watch a movie in total darkness the screen will still look 'backlit' like the Samsung except the Sammys blacks in darkness looked dark gray while the Toshiba looks light black. Not totally what I wanted but it's definitely much much better.

As far as dark scenes go, there is a little improvement but detail in dark scenes just isn't there. If I play NFL 2k5 or NBA 2k5, and you have a player with dark skin and they are not directly in the light, details on their face is lost. I'll just not let that bother me too much because I know that's just a flaw with DLP/LCD at this time. I really think this could be improve somewhat if there were an adjustment in the user menu for black enhancement.

As others stated above, don't waste your time on the Toshiba 5970 DVD player. I tried it and my current Toshiba 3950 via component looks much better than the 5970 with the HDMI connection. Setting the 5970 at 1080i looked best but no matter what it looked very grainy. Rather than going for the Samsung 841, I'm going to wait and try out Sony's HDMI DVD player when it comes out.

Xbox games look good. One thing that does bother me is that from my little experience so far is that aspect ratio is setup globally instead of by input. NFL 2K5 looks really good however MVP 2004 Baseball looks better because it can do 720p.

Now since I don't have cable/satellite, I just need to decide if I want to go TW cable, Direct TV, Dish network, or Voom.

evanfrae

10-05-04, 01:21 PM

Does anyone know if you can utilize the pop option for split screen with the 52HM84 set and a cable box? I have attempted this but so far have not been successful at obtaining two separate channels for each screen. Any enlightenment would be much appreciated. Thanks.

E. Evans

Victor Nowik

10-05-04, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by ndahbar
Interesting. I also feel eye fatigue as a brand new owner for the first few days, but I hope I will adjust as you have. I sit less than 10 ft (more like 8) away from the TV, so that probably isn't helping (I have the 52 inch).

Thanks for sharing the issue's progress for yourself with us. I was getting worried the most about that. And yeah, I see rainbows quite easily now (DVD with dark scene). I am trying not to let it bother me.

HID (High Intensity Discharge) lamps are essentially little arc lights. The
light comes from a hollow tube filled with mercury and other elements.
All HID lamps are superbrite at first and loose about 10% of thier brightness
in the first week or two of on hours. I think the initial extra bright output
is good marketing since it makes the sets ultra bright in the showroom and
good engineering because when the bulb dimms 10% it's in at an ideal light
range for the remainder of it's life. HID lamps also gradually decrease output
over thier lifetime. Toshiba starts out with a 120 watt lamp which is way more
than enough light...but the tv has a low/high lamp setting. So start out in low
when the lamp is new (which also extends lamp life) and swith to high when
the lamp is around a year old. Also in power down the tv dosent immidently
turn the lamp off but gradually lowers it over several mins while the green
light flashes. I think this also increases lamp life. I think all thease things
account for the fact that this model has a 1yr lamp warrenty and other
DLP's dont....look at all the Samsung lamp problems. I really think we got the
right DLP from the right manufacturer.

kriore

10-05-04, 03:42 PM

DLP Type R

10-05-04, 04:01 PM

Evanfrae,
YOu have to go to the settings menu and turn off auto-aspect I think. I am able to do POP with left side standard 4:3 and the right side wide 16:9 HDTV.
Press POP source and select your widescreen source.

If you're referring to actual signals, you can use a splitter or you can feed the main coax to the TV. Then feed cable out from the TV to the STB. I have found that this works but you do not get all the services available with digital cable so I just used a splitter.

ndahbar

10-05-04, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by Victor Nowik
HID (High Intensity Discharge) lamps are essentially little arc lights. The
light comes from a hollow tube filled with mercury and other elements.
All HID lamps are superbrite at first and loose about 10% of thier brightness
in the first week or two of on hours. I think the initial extra bright output
is good marketing since it makes the sets ultra bright in the showroom and
good engineering because when the bulb dimms 10% it's in at an ideal light
range for the remainder of it's life. HID lamps also gradually decrease output
over thier lifetime. Toshiba starts out with a 120 watt lamp which is way more
than enough light...but the tv has a low/high lamp setting. So start out in low
when the lamp is new (which also extends lamp life) and swith to high when
the lamp is around a year old. Also in power down the tv dosent immidently
turn the lamp off but gradually lowers it over several mins while the green
light flashes. I think this also increases lamp life. I think all thease things
account for the fact that this model has a 1yr lamp warrenty and other
DLP's dont....look at all the Samsung lamp problems. I really think we got the
right DLP from the right manufacturer.

Thanks. I didn't "realize" this is pretty much the same technology as in our cars with their HID headlights. :D

Anyway yeah, good point, I bet eventually it will stop being a pain to our eye muscles. Also, yes, I noticed that the low-power mode (100W) is plenty enough. I use it exclusively since day2 of ownership. And yes I make use of the slow power down feature and will continue to do so.

I haven't yet calibrated my TV, and haven't installed HI-DEF satellite yet. So I cannot offer a full review of my experience with my HMX yet.

Anyway I didn't find the following in this thread, so I ask again: How do you get into the service menu(s) ?

ndahbar

10-05-04, 04:23 PM

Oh, I have to point this out to you guys, especially those who have not previously owned such a high-tech or large (42+ inch) sets:

Do *not* be disappointed by the quality of your DVD movies, compared to what you remember !!!

You are simply amplifying the flaws in your DVDs on these wonderful sets. I have now understood this. In earlier posts I mentioned some titles like Kill Bill VOL 1 and was disappointed thinking either my new Denon 1910 player or my 52HMX84 just weren't the best of the best for the money. Boy was I wrong. Not only do other discs look better and less grainy or "clay face", but I found the following such information to prove what I was experiencing:

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/reviews3/killbillv1.html

That's an awesome web site by the way.

Anyway, it is the TRANSFER and COMPRESSION that is killing the disc. These TVs just highlight it for you.

Anyway, for those of you out there with the following:

1. PROPERLY calibrated HM or HMX DLP sets
2. A Special-Extended-DVD Edition of a LOTR movie
2a. (or any other dvd u know has an A+ grade transfer quality)

Let us know what you think of the PQ when watching that.

ndahbar

10-05-04, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by GSOgymrat
I've now had my Toshiba 52HM84 for a couple of weeks and I've had a chance to play with it. Overall I have to say that I'm very happy with this TV. I had a Samsung 5063 previously and I have no regrets trading it for the Toshiba. Trust me, for $3000 if I was not THRILLED I would return it. I've had zero problems so far-- no lip synch issues, color problems, rainbows, Xbox lag, etc. The only minor disappointment is I would not have chosen gray pillars for 4:3 material.

I've adjusted the picture using DVE and my favorite shows/DVDs. The following settings are my own personal taste and I would be interested in seeing how others are adjusting their sets.

HDMI w/Samsung HD841 DVD:
Contrast=50
Brightness=56
Color=38
Tint=0
Sharpness=30
Color Temp=Medium

Component 1 w/SA8000HD DVR:
Contrast=58
Brightness=50
Color=48
Tint=0
Sharpness=40
Color Temp=Medium

Component 2 w/Xbox
Contrast=100
Brightness=50
Color=50
Tint=0
Sharpness=50
Color Temp=Cool

S-Video 1 w/TiVo (standard)
Contrast=55
Brightness=50
Color=50
Tint=0
Sharpness=20
Color Temp=Medium

I really like the colors on the 52MH84; everything looks balanced. SD programs definitely look better through Tivo then the HD cablebox. HD of course looks incredible.

Dang, the TV can remember the preferences for each input source?? I didn't know it can do that and remember it as u switch between DVD cable satellite xbox etc.

Victor Nowik

10-05-04, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by ndahbar

Anyway I didn't find the following in this thread, so I ask again: How do you get into the service menu(s) ?

I include part of an earlier post by swampdog:
==============================================

For those asking here is how to get to the service menu, but I have no idea what you do after getting to it so let me know what you do from this point.

* Pick an input (Colorstream HD input 1 for example ) set the picture size to "Full"
* Press "mute" on the remote - 1/2 mute appears on the screen
* Press "mute" on the remote again - mute appears on the screen
* Press "mute" on the remote and hold the mute button -

* Press the "Menu" button on the TV's front panel. "S" will appear in the upper right corner of the screen.
* Press "menu" on the front panel again and the "S" will disappear. On the left side of the screen you will see "RCUT" followed by two numbers.

You are now in the service mode.

That's as far as I go; I am not responsible for your actions.

================end of swampdog fragment=================

You will get only one option pair (name/value) per screen. To move forward
I think you use the up/down arrows (not sure). I have gone thru all the
valules and written them down. There are some that look an awfull lot
like RGB gain/offset settings...which is what we want for calibraion. An
awfull lot of the other settings look pretty opaque and dangerous...and I
would not be in the least surprised that playing with many of them might
render the display unwatchable or even make the unit unbootable. So
be carefull....but I think we can probably figure out the RGB stuff.
The first thing to figure out is how to get out of service mode and how to
save the changes properly. I was able to get out by cyceling power. I think
that for those interested some web searching on how the other Toshiba
(CRT) displays work in service mode would pay off. Once the serivce manual
is published it should give all this info...but AFAIK it is still being written.

At first I was gung-ho on tweaking with the service menu but I soon
realized that the display looked great and I didnt see any big areas of
improvment. I do believe however that a small tweak to the red drive
would be a benefit as I sometimes see a small red push...but nothing to
really bother me. Good luck and please post your results.

sharonf

10-06-04, 12:24 AM

KevinSDiego

10-06-04, 01:32 AM

$800 difference between the HM84 and HM94? The MSRP diff is $400.

brianjx

10-06-04, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by KevinSDiego
sharonf,
I'm about to go for the 46HM94. The 94 series is definitely worth the extra $300 or so you'd pay. It also has dolby digital out, slots for CF or SD memory flash card, cable card, 2 firewire ports, TV guide on screen.....
I just wish they made a 46" HMX94.

KevinSDiego -- I've been reading the various threads around here for the last month or so and have also put the 46hm94 at the top of my list. I'm also in the San Diego area -- have you seen this at any local retailers yet? I called some BBs last week and they said they weren't planning on carrying it.

vizual

10-06-04, 11:30 AM

Not to recycle anything,

but I gather nobody has figured how to switch the gray bars to black in 4:3 through the service menu yet?

KevinSDiego

10-06-04, 12:19 PM

brianjx,
I'm planning on getting it through Tweeter. It's going to have to be special order, since they don't have them in showrooms, but they can get it. What I may do is go to BB and buy the HM84, keep it for a few weeks to make sure I like it, then return it. Then go through my connections for Tweeter and have them order the 94 for me. If you go to tweeter they can get it for you. BB can probably special order it also, but not sure. Check with Good Guys also.

SanDiegoLaz

10-06-04, 12:20 PM

I was told the BB in Oceanside will be carrying the HM94 series.

Quill

10-06-04, 12:47 PM

I have a HMX on order, and the grey bars issue is one of the few drawbacks this TV has. Has anyone tried the tweaks that worked on standard Toshiba RPTVs on their DLP?

I doubt the procedure is identical, but the name of the parameter may be, as well as the concept of controlling the brightness of the sidebars...

The following is a snippet from the excellent Keohi site:

Here's the link (http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/brandspecific/toshiba/generaltweaks/graybars_nomore.html)

Tip from JaredB: "Maybe in the minority here, but I always thought that having gray bars on the sides when watching non-progressive 4:3 material was one of the Toshiba 40" RPTV's biggest drawbacks. I understand that they were probably put there to avoid burn in for people that left their sets factory bright (aka 'torch mode') and watched a lot of unstretched 4:3 material. As for me, a like to watch a good mix of stretched 4:3, full mode, and standard 4:3 and my set has been ISF'd - so I found those gray bars REALLY annoying.Well, no longer.

Here is the step by step method for turning your side bars from grey to black:

PLEASE NOTE: You may not need to do things exactly the way I did them, but this is the way I did it and it worked perfectly. I am not an expert at the ADDR mode, so I probably can't answer questions you have that aren't answered below. (please see the links to threads below from smarter people than me that made this possible) I'm not the first to do this on a Toshiba and my thanks go out to those that paved the way on other Tosh models. I'm just the first guy brave/dumb enough to try this on the TW40x81.

ANYTHING YOU DO TO YOUR SET IS YOUR FAULT AND I CANNOT HELP YOU. Ok, I would probably try to help, but I'd be useless. At any rate, as long as you don't mess around it's actually a very easy process and nothing to be scared of.

1. First, you need a One For All remote. This is the only way I have found so far which allows access to the ADDR mode, which is even more 'powerful' than the design mode. You will find little about the design mode in the service manual and nothing about the ADDR mode.

I used the OneForAll Cinema 7. ($24.99 at Best Buy) Per the remote's instruction manual, set it for Toshiba code 0156. Try turning the TV on and off with the remote now to see if you did it properly.

2. Next, set the macro button on the remote (per the instructions) so that the macro sequence is: setup button, (labelled on some Oneforalls as the 'magic' button) then 0, 1, 4.

3. Remove all inputs from the TV (don't know if this matters, but I did it just in case) I then put my TV in Video 1 input and put it in standard mode so I could see the gray bars.

4. Pressing the macro button once should now put your TV in the ADDR mode. You will see the letters ADDR in the upper left corner and some letters and numbers.

5. Now, pressing the VOLUME button will change parameters, so don't press it unless you feel like experimenting. Simply press the CHANNEL up and down and you will cycle through parameters without making any changes. Stop when you reach the following parameter: (I had to scroll up for a WHILE)

2B7H - this controls the brightness of the sidebars and will probably show you a value of 07.

6. Now - simply press the volume down until that value reaches 00. (you will see the side bars turn black) TURN YOUR SET OFF TO EXIT ADDR MODE.

YOU'RE DONE. Hook your video inputs back up and turn your set on. You will now enjoy black sidebars on all material while in standard mode.

ndahbar

10-06-04, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by Victor Nowik
At first I was gung-ho on tweaking with the service menu but I soon
realized that the display looked great and I didnt see any big areas of
improvment. I do believe however that a small tweak to the red drive
would be a benefit as I sometimes see a small red push...but nothing to
really bother me. Good luck and please post your results.

Thanks man, will do.

Thing is, I figured that to do proper calibration, I need to use the service menu. I mean, I somehow doubt we can properly calibrate just by using contrast/brightness/tint/color/sharpness settings. Right?

Victor Nowik

10-06-04, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by ndahbar
Thanks man, will do.

Thing is, I figured that to do proper calibration, I need to use the service menu. I mean, I somehow doubt we can properly calibrate just by using contrast/brightness/tint/color/sharpness settings. Right?

Calibration can mean a number of things.

1. simply adjust: contrast/brightness/tint/color/sharpness
previous posters in this thread have generously shared thiers

2. ISF calibration: Professional comes to your home
and uses instruments to get the settings correct (costs $300 and up)
the very very fussy insist it is worth it. I am not that fussy.

3. A variety of home brew calibration methods some of them amazingly
complicated like this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=442256
I admire the rigorous methods of the author but it seems like lotta work
and his method is for the Samsung...needs to be "ported" to Toshiba

Aside from getting the red down a tiny bit I am far too much in love
with the out of the box performance of this unit to want to mess with it.
Yet if some brave fussy sole swore that he had the RIGHT numbers I
would probably try it. Are you that sole?

brianjx

10-07-04, 01:56 AM

Originally posted by KevinSDiego
brianjx,
I'm planning on getting it through Tweeter. It's going to have to be special order, since they don't have them in showrooms, but they can get it. What I may do is go to BB and buy the HM84, keep it for a few weeks to make sure I like it, then return it. Then go through my connections for Tweeter and have them order the 94 for me. If you go to tweeter they can get it for you. BB can probably special order it also, but not sure. Check with Good Guys also.

Kevin & Charlene -

Thanks for the information. I had checked with Good Guys, but was told by one of their salesmen that they only carry Samsung DLPs because "they're the only ones getting the new TI chips." Of course, he also said that the rainbow effect is "just a myth." ;)

NathanE

10-07-04, 01:59 AM

All,
Please weigh in on my summary of the Toshiba 52HM84! :) Your comments and expertise are deeply appreciated!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=455066

TH3_FRB

10-07-04, 08:42 AM

OneCall has a good "special" price including shipping on the 52HM84. Says it's only good for 60min.

xb1032

10-07-04, 04:07 PM

Just thought I'd post a few pics of my setup. I have the Toshiba 62HM84.

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php?photo=10256&size=big&sort=1&cat=500

Here's another pic. This also show what I'm talking about for black crush. Look at the player on the right, his head is not showing up properly. The loss of detail is exaggerated in this photo however but the black details tend to not show up so well on this TV which is part of owning a DLP, but the Mitsubishi handled this better though. I really believe there's probably a black enhancement adjustment in the SM that could help in this area. Blacks on this TV are very good for a DLP!

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php?photo=10260&size=big&sort=1&cat=500

Here's a link to the rest of my photo's just in case you're interested:

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=49275

martin45

10-07-04, 04:52 PM

I have AVIA and it seemed to work pretty well for my CRT based RPTV. However, I used it to set up my 52HM84 and the settings I came up with just don't cut the mustard. I have found for most HD, SD and DVD material I prefer my settings pretty close to others previously posted ... something like: (If I remember correctly)
Contrast = 60 - 70 My preference = 70
Brightness = 40 - 52 " " = 44
Color = 38 - 52 " " = 40
Tint = R3 - G3 " " = 0
Sharpness =25 No Problem Here

My AVIA settings:
Contrast = 77 I can live with this one.
Brightness = 30 Quite watchable but definitely on the dark side.
Color = 60 No way, Jose!
Tint = R12 Little toooo pink for me
Sharpness = 25

Am I missing something here? Others experiences in this area please.

tristanc

10-07-04, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by martin45
Am I missing something here? Others experiences in this area please.
I had a similar experience. I wonder if tests designed primarily for optimizing CRT sets just fall down when it comes to other technologies.

--T.

TheGrub

10-07-04, 05:26 PM

Same exact thing here... My DVD was calibrated with Avia and is OK.

But all my other inputs, i tried with avia but went back to my own setting that are almost the same as you !

GSOgymrat

10-07-04, 07:06 PM

xb1032,
Great set up. Very nicely done.

sharonf

10-07-04, 10:45 PM

Originally posted by KevinSDiego
$800 difference between the HM84 and HM94? The MSRP diff is $400.

An example from TVAuthority:
The HM94 is $3800 andthe HM84 is $3099.

At OneCall the HM84 is $3000 and the HM 94 is $3899.

sprintcar

10-08-04, 12:13 AM

xb1032 what a TERIFIC job u did man. VERY VERY NICE!!!!. Am waiting for mine to arrive have half completed my entertainment centre. Can't wait for TV to arrive. Again great job. Time for ya to switch careers and start building Entertainment centers HEE HEE.
SPRINTCAR

cmonsammy

10-08-04, 12:19 AM

Originally posted by KevinSDiego
brianjx,
I'm planning on getting it through Tweeter. It's going to have to be special order, since they don't have them in showrooms, but they can get it. What I may do is go to BB and buy the HM84, keep it for a few weeks to make sure I like it, then return it. Then go through my connections for Tweeter and have them order the 94 for me. If you go to tweeter they can get it for you. BB can probably special order it also, but not sure. Check with Good Guys also.

Do us all a favor and skip the BB step...it's a sleazy thing to buy a system knowing you're going to return it, and it increases prices for all of us.

Read the forums, study the set in stores, then if you decide you want it, go your Tweeter route...good luck with your choice.

KevinSDiego

10-08-04, 01:14 AM

LOL, don't worry, I'm skipping the BB step. that's not something I would normally do, and won't do. I'm ordering it through tweeter tomorrow.

sharonf,
I see what you are saying now. looks like the prices are dropping, or have dropped on the 84s, and not on the 94s (yet). There's a bigger dif on the 52" vs the 46" for some reason (they both have the same extra features).

Imdok

10-08-04, 08:49 AM

Hi, My first time on here. Great forum.

What's the difference between these two units besides gray/black bezel?

Does the 62HM94 have one or two HDMI iputs (Even Toshiba seems confused on this one in their website spec sheet)
Do these units have a 6 or 7 segment color wheel?

My equipment:
Disnetwork 921 HDTV box w/ up-conversion w/ DVI out.
Denon 3910 DVD with HDMI/DVI out with up-conversion.
The Toshiba also up-converts, right?
Will all this up-converting from all three pieces pose a problem?
Again, Does anybody really know if the 62HM94 has one or two HDMI inputs?
THe Dishnetwork 921 Sat box has a HDTV converter already in it. Will this cause a conflict with the Toshiba's HDTV converter.
Thanks for any help . I'm new at this and just a little bewilderd by it all.

PackFan

10-08-04, 09:00 AM

Has anyone seen the 94 series anywhere yet?

xb1032

10-08-04, 03:28 PM

GSOgymrat and sprintcar,

Thanks for the compliments. Believe it or not, I am very inexperienced in wood working. You can really do a lot with MDF board because when you don't cut right there's always woodfiller to make up for your mistakes. And believe it or not, I think my total cost for the unit was under $1000. Going on vacation for now and I'll have to order sattelite service when I get back.

desidoc

10-08-04, 05:25 PM

Decided to jump in ordered from ecost for just under $3500 62hm84, cant wait, it will probably take 10-14 days

ndahbar

10-08-04, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by Imdok
Hi, My first time on here. Great forum.

What's the difference between these two units besides gray/black bezel?

Does the 62HM94 have one or two HDMI iputs (Even Toshiba seems confused on this one in their website spec sheet)
Do these units have a 6 or 7 segment color wheel?

My equipment:
Disnetwork 921 HDTV box w/ up-conversion w/ DVI out.
Denon 3910 DVD with HDMI/DVI out with up-conversion.
The Toshiba also up-converts, right?
Will all this up-converting from all three pieces pose a problem?
Again, Does anybody really know if the 62HM94 has one or two HDMI inputs?
THe Dishnetwork 921 Sat box has a HDTV converter already in it. Will this cause a conflict with the Toshiba's HDTV converter.
Thanks for any help . I'm new at this and just a little bewilderd by it all.

Imdoc,

I have a 52HMX84 as well as DishNetwork hi-def box so I can relate. No don't worry, upconverting from the various sources will not pose an issue and they are not inter-dependent. Basically just remember this:

1. If you send your display a signal that is not 720p, then it will convert it to that. Your TV cannot display anything other than that

2. If you send it 720p, the TV does nothing but display.

3. If you start off with a source that isn't 720p originally, like any DVD movie, either your player OR your TV will upconvert

In my experience, better off having the player upconvert. I definitely saw a sharper image when I did that as opposed to say leaving the output from the DVD to 480p and relying on the TV to do it.

The difference between the HM and HMX besides the black bezel is that the HMX has 1 more HDMI input. Anyone care to add to that? I know that the HMX 52 and 62 have their own user manuals...so at some significant level, Toshiba treats/considers them as a truly separate line...it seems.

I dunno about the 94-series if they have 2, but my HMX sure does.

subbedout

10-08-04, 06:16 PM

I have the 52HM84 and the picture is great when using component cables for cable TV and DVD, but when I try to use HDMI, it becomes grainy with color bleed and fuzziness around sharp edges. This is from the same source (I've tried both Comcast HD cable and DVD). My assumption is that this is not how it should be.

Guess it's time for a service call....

Sc0rp10n

10-08-04, 07:31 PM

subscribing - have a tosh 62hmx84 on order to be delivered in about 2 weeks. cain't wait!

hobbes382

10-09-04, 04:58 PM

I was holding out for the 52HM94, but found a great deal on the 52HMX84. That, and having just seen the HMX in person, I really like the look of the cabinet.

My only problem is, I want a OTA HD tuner. The 94 has it built it, but for those of you with a HM/HMX84, what are good OTA tuners to go with it? Is it HDMI for compatibility with the set inputs? And can the Tosh remote be used to easily change channels on your tuner?

Thanks in advance.

Sc0rp10n

10-09-04, 08:20 PM

which would you guys prefer - to have the tv up/down convert or to have the exernal box do it? i've got my 62hmx84 being delivered in a week or two. my dvd player is a denon 3910 so i will tell that to output 720p. i also have a directv hd dvr (hr10-250). should i have it output whatever the station is broadcasting (which requires me to know that), or just set the HR10-250 to output 720p all the time?

Sc0rp10n

10-09-04, 08:41 PM

does anyone in this thread know the base dimensions of the 62hmx84? i have one beling delivered in about 2 weeks and would really like to know. thanks!

caeguy

10-09-04, 09:15 PM

Can someone describe the cosmetic differences between the HM94 and HMX84? I really don't like the all silver cabinet of the 84.

zeicht

10-09-04, 09:23 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Quill
[B]I have a HMX on order, and the grey bars issue is one of the few drawbacks this TV has.

Quill, when is your HMX gonna arrive? any rough dates? ive been waiting for the HMX too but if it's gona take another month or two i might just settle for the lesser HM model...btw, where did u order yours and do you mind if i ask how much you got it for? i live in vancouver and so far no one's got it yet

Sc0rp10n

10-09-04, 09:52 PM

i ordered my hmx (62hmx84) from crutchfield. they will have them in on 10/15. when i ordered (a week ago or so) they said i would definately get one in that shipment.

DCinDC

10-09-04, 09:57 PM

Originally posted by Sc0rp10n
i ordered my hmx (62hmx84) from crutchfield. they will have them in on 10/15. when i ordered (a week ago or so) they said i would definately get one in that shipment.

Congrats. Crutchfield is an excellent dealer. Do they offer any kind of extended warranty? If so, who provdes the service?

DC

Sc0rp10n

10-09-04, 10:13 PM

no extended warranty on the toshibas. i actually asked to purchase an extended warranty - told him i was trying to give 'em more money. he said he was sorry but they didn't have one on the toshiba. hopefully i won't have problems with it once the mfg warranty ends.

tristanc

10-09-04, 11:20 PM

Originally posted by Sc0rp10n
no extended warranty on the toshibas. i actually asked to purchase an extended warranty - told him i was trying to give 'em more money. he said he was sorry but they didn't have one on the toshiba. hopefully i won't have problems with it once the mfg warranty ends. I believe you can purchase an extended warranty online. The local shop I bought my TV from uses RepairMaster, and a quick search shows that you can buy these from online places--I have NO clue how this works though. And obviously, you can't haggle the price down since it's no longer a package deal. Anyway, thought it might be worth a shot...

--T.

Quill

10-10-04, 12:37 AM

Originally posted by zeicht

Quill, when is your HMX gonna arrive? any rough dates? ive been waiting for the HMX too but if it's gona take another month or two i might just settle for the lesser HM model...btw, where did u order yours and do you mind if i ask how much you got it for? i live in vancouver and so far no one's got it yet

I ordered mine from a smaller independent shop here in Edmonton called The Gramophone. So far the sales experience--and pricing--has been awesome, and the only negative is waiting for the set...which, by the way, will be coming from Vancouver when the next shipment comes, so you should have yours before me!

I understand the 62HMX is in short supply throughout Canada, and it could indeed be a few weeks until it arrives. The store owner is following up on Tuesday in an effort to get a confirmed date.

I believe discussion of deal pricing is frowned upon here, so PM me if you'd like to trade prices.

Cheers,

Quill

kybred

10-10-04, 01:00 AM

Hello all...

My first post on the forums. Been reading for awhile and finally sprung for the Toshiba 46HM84 DLP. What a great HD picture!

I have a question for anyone with Comcast (in Dallas area) and the DCT6208 (or 6200) STB. When I use the DVI out of the STB to the HDMI input, the HD picture has snow in it! Has anyone seen this? Is this a problem with the STB or the TV (my guess is the STB). Could I have the wrong cable? The HD picture is fine with the component video inputs, but I was hoping that using the HDMI would give better results on some of the non-HD channels.

kybred

tristanc

10-10-04, 01:33 AM

Originally posted by kybred
I have a question for anyone with Comcast (in Dallas area) and the DCT6208 (or 6200) STB. When I use the DVI out of the STB to the HDMI input, the HD picture has snow in it! Has anyone seen this? Is this a problem with the STB or the TV (my guess is the STB). Could I have the wrong cable? The HD picture is fine with the component video inputs, but I was hoping that using the HDMI would give better results on some of the non-HD channels.
I have personally never seen snow in an HD feed (I have CableOne, which has a few HD channels). Nor do I notice a difference between the HDMI and component hookup, and the only reason I use the HDMI is because of the limited number of component inputs (only two?!?!--seriously the biggest problem with the Toshiba DLPs, followed by the gray bars on 4X3 aspect). I find it odd that you see snow, given that it's a pure digital feed going into the set.

The only issue I've ever had with HD channels through cable is noise in uniform color areas (like grass on a football field through a long shot lens).

--T.

rossdross

10-10-04, 03:35 AM

Hey there guys.

Got a quick question.

I got my 62hm84vs yesterday......I realize now I will need to buy a gefen HDMI product so my DVD player and Satellite can transmit to the ONE HDMI connection in the back of the television. No biggie there.......

Any recommendations on DVD players?

I have heard the 841 by Samsung has all the kinks worked out of it but they now have a 941 that is out. I don't know if it is worth the near $100 higher price they are wanting to charge vs. the 841

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=438276&perpage=5&pagenumber=76

FYI, I bought my Toshiba through TV authority as part of a bundle. It doesn't look like they are offerring the bundle I got anymore but I got the 62" TV, the TOSH stand and 4 year extended warranty for $4742 delivered when all was said and done....Despite taking about 2-3 weeks and the delivery only happening M-F (9-5, which is tough for single working guys with careers) I have been pleasantly suprised.

http://www.tvauthority.com/avs-forum-members-only/avs-forum-members-only.asp

When I get the room set up (speakers in the wall, Direct TV with HD receiver, et all) I will post some pictures and my experiences with the TV. I am in a new house and this is my first big screen but I have been planning and researching this purchase for quite some time. I was actually waiting on the HLP models by sammy but they waited so long to roll out the 61" that TOSH had already rolled out their initial models with the HD2+ vs. the HD3 chip (better resolution.) In the end it worked out great!

All help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

ndahbar

10-10-04, 05:26 AM

Just finished watching BadBoys 2 on HBOHD (Dish Network hi-def receiver) on my 52HMX.

While the picture wasn't 100% artifact-free (obviously, since they have to do SOME degree of compression), man, it was AWESOME. Nobody can ask for a better pic currently, seriously. Oh, and the Dolby Digital off HBOHD was every bit as good as from any of our DVD's. :)

Again, sorry for my half-assed reviews of the TV...I *still* haven't calibrated mine. Nice detailed review with pix coming very soon to a thread near you...

videobruce

10-10-04, 11:04 AM

GSOgymrat; why did you return the Sammy for the Tosh.?

hobbes382

10-10-04, 11:16 AM

What are you guys using for OTA HD tuners in combination with the Tosh? Any recommendations or complaints?

Thanks.

kybred

10-10-04, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by tristanc
I have personally never seen snow in an HD feed (I have CableOne, which has a few HD channels). Nor do I notice a difference between the HDMI and component hookup, and the only reason I use the HDMI is because of the limited number of component inputs (only two?!?!--seriously the biggest problem with the Toshiba DLPs, followed by the gray bars on 4X3 aspect). I find it odd that you see snow, given that it's a pure digital feed going into the set.

Snow is the only way that I could describe it. It's basically white pixels appearing randomly on the screen. I think it's probably noise in the signal, perhaps due to some timing issue between the STB and the TV. It's not the blockiness that you see in compressed video sometimes, the pixels are much smaller than that. Occasionally you will see a line in the video.

The only issue I've ever had with HD channels through cable is noise in uniform color areas (like grass on a football field through a long shot lens).

--T.

Yes, I know what you are talking about. I've seen that too, but this is quite different. The noise pixels seem to always be white.

I suppose I could spring for a Monster DVI-HDMI cable ($$$) and see if that makes a difference. As long as I can return it if I see the same thing.

ky

GSOgymrat

10-10-04, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by videobruce
GSOgymrat; why did you return the Sammy for the Tosh.?

It's a long story but basically I had a Samsung HLP5063 and it had problems so I upgraded to the 5663. The 5663 had major problems out of the box so while I was waiting to have the 5663 fixed (they were on backorder) the Toshiba and Mitsubishi models came out. I really liked the picture on the H2+ sets and after a lot of thought went with the Toshiba. I've had zero problems with the Toshiba so far and I'm very pleased with the performance.

dvdguru

10-10-04, 03:15 PM

Just got back from ordering the 52hm84 at best buy :) It was a pretty good deal I think. After the 12% off and the sale price it was around 2750.00. I got the matching stand and PSP as well and talked them into free delivery for Thursday. I just HOPE the fan is as quiet as you guys says as that's why I returned my Mitsubishi DLP. The fan noise bouncing off the walls totally ruined movie watching. So...any owners want to ease my mind even more and tell me you have no fan noise? :)

Neo42

10-10-04, 03:18 PM

Ugh.

I have been messing with an LG LST-3150A receiver/DVD player for the last day and I am ready to blow up both the TV and the player/receiver.

Can anyone tell me how in the world I'm getting ghosting on HDTV via the DVI port on the receiver? Also, all the menuing system in the receiver (content not received over the antenna/coax) is ghosting on my HM84. Does this receiver/player just SUCK or what? I get ghosting on component cables too.. same cables I use for xbox (which displays 720p perfectly clean and crisp, no ghosting ever). Stranger though, is that I hook the LG up to my PC monitor (it has RGB out) and get absolutely no ghosting at all.

I have a bad feeling that the TV is trying to process the signal and failing, or that the receiver is giving me a whack signal.. or a combination of both.

Anyone have any ideas?

-A

ndahbar

10-10-04, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by hobbes382
What are you guys using for OTA HD tuners in combination with the Tosh? Any recommendations or complaints?

Thanks.

I just got a Radioshack indoor/outdoor antenna (powered). Like 40 bucks. Works well, I have ~85% signal strength for most of my locals.

Plus, unlike a built-in OTA tuner, you can easily re-position yours to get better and better reception.

kriore

10-10-04, 03:24 PM

Originally posted by dvdguru
Just got back from ordering the 52hm84 at best buy :) It was a pretty good deal I think. After the 12% off and the sale price it was around 2750.00. I got the matching stand and PSP as well and talked them into free delivery for Thursday. I just HOPE the fan is as quiet as you guys says as that's why I returned my Mitsubishi DLP. The fan noise bouncing off the walls totally ruined movie watching. So...any owners want to ease my mind even more and tell me you have no fan noise? :)

For your peace of mind here it goes. There is almost no fan noise on this TV. There is slight hum for the first 2 seconds after you switch on the TV, but that's it. Afterwards, there is no noise at all; ofcourse to my ears.

GSOgymrat

10-10-04, 03:34 PM

Same experience with fan noise here... hum for the first couple of seconds and then I don't hear it.

dvdguru

10-10-04, 05:06 PM

Thanks, you have eased my mind. Thinking of picking up the Denon 2910 in a few minutes to upgrade my old dvd player. That should make a great picture difference.

elmalloc

10-10-04, 05:55 PM

why wouldnt you get the zenith 318 upscaler for 1080i? Is the denon taht much better? The zenith upscales to 1080i over component for only $180...the denon does not, as far as I gather.

DCinDC

10-10-04, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by elmalloc
why wouldnt you get the zenith 318 upscaler for 1080i? Is the denon taht much better? The zenith upscales to 1080i over component for only $180...the denon does not, as far as I gather.

Denon 2910 will output 480p, 720p, or 1080i.

DC

jpvision

10-10-04, 06:50 PM

Can any of the owners in this thread comment on how this tv handles fast motion

dvdguru

10-10-04, 08:08 PM

Yep, the Denon will upconvert over HDMI without black and white crush which is what I was looking for. From the reviews of this tv and dvd player I should be pretty happy come Thursday :)

DCinDC

10-10-04, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by jpvision
Can any of the owners in this thread comment on how this tv handles fast motion

I think as long as it's on a sturdy stand that you can move as fast as you want and the TV will be just fine.

DC ;)

videobruce

10-11-04, 08:52 AM

Has any of you compared this directly (side by side) against the 'Kirk' and the 'Mits'?

DJMoore22

10-11-04, 09:42 AM

Just had my set delivered this past Sat. So far, I love it! How do you know which mode to use while watching DVD's? For full screen it has Theaterwide 1, Theaterwide 2, Theaterwide 3, and Full. Thanks for any input.

dvdguru

10-11-04, 09:47 AM

full for widescreen anamorphic dvds. theater wide 2 for non anamorphic widescreen. normal for 4:3 dvds. theaterwide 1 if you want 4:3 dvds stretched to fill screen

ndahbar

10-11-04, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by videobruce
Has any of you compared this directly (side by side) against the 'Kirk' and the 'Mits'?

I have. Every bit as good, and much lower price. Less connections, but actually turns out u can easily get around it using a switch box like the Audio Authority 1154A which I got.

videobruce

10-11-04, 11:19 AM

but the switch box adds big time to the overall price!

KevinSDiego

10-11-04, 11:34 AM

I compared it side by side to the mits and the LG. I thought the PQ was better on the toshiba.
If you have a receiver you don't need to worry about a switch, just use it as a 'hub'.

videobruce

10-11-04, 08:58 PM

I looked at this Toshiba again. It was next to the Mits and 2 doors down; the newer Hitachi 810 (black bezel).
This was the first time I saw this newer Hitachi and my first thought was; it's a 'Kirk' without the stand and with a Mits glare screen!
Well of the three it goes;
3rd: Hitachi 810 (lowest detail, clay face look, mild screen door)
2nd: Mits
1st: Toshiba (best detail as long as you aren't one that likes that 'film look')

When I was watching these 3 sets, a couple came in and started talking to the salesman and they asked what is with these silver cabinets. I really had to keep my mouth shut..............
Only thing; that chinsy silver cabinet and those damn side speakers jave to go! Why can't they design it with detachable speakers at least and include a can of charcol grey spray paint.

videobruce

10-11-04, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by KevinSDiego
I compared it side by side to the mits and the LG. I thought the PQ was better on the toshiba.
If you have a receiver you don't need to worry about a switch, just use it as a 'hub'. What AV receivers have DVI or HDMI switching built in?

rossdross

10-11-04, 09:15 PM

Interesting that you brought this up.

B4 I bought my Tosh I watched every TV backwards and forwards that I could see.

The defining moment, which caused me to buy the TOSH vs. Sammy et others was seeing the 52" model next to a Sammy pedestal and HLP model.

It was a horrible broadcast. I have to admit that. NBC's HD broadcast of the olympics left ALOT to be desired BUT, the one thing I consistently noticed was MAJOR pixelization with the Sammy TVs.

The TOSH, for whatever reason, had a faster refresh rate which made a HUGe difference for side by side viewing of the 3 TVs.

I am going to be watching PLENTY O football on mine so the refresh rate was critical and sealed the deal.

It didn't hurt that the contrast was awesome too!

Dan

DCinDC

10-11-04, 10:01 PM

Originally posted by videobruce
I looked at this Toshiba again. It was next to the Mits and 2 doors down; the newer Hitachi 810 (black bezel).
This was the first time I saw this newer Hitachi and my first thought was; it's a 'Kirk' without the stand and with a Mits glare screen!
Well of the three it goes;
3rd: Hitachi 810 (lowest detail, clay face look, mild screen door)
2nd: Mits
1st: Toshiba (best detail as long as you aren't one that likes that 'film look')

I haven't found an opportunity to compare the Tosh and Mits side-by-side so I'd be very interested in specifically why you came up with this ranking. While I love the Hitachi 810 cabinet and thought the pic was very good for LCD, I didn't think it would stand up as well in brighter lighting (saw it in a dim room) and also noticed glare off the screen. TIA.

DC

KevinSDiego

10-11-04, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by videobruce
What AV receivers have DVI or HDMI switching built in?

I was refering to component swithing. I haven't seen any receivers with hdmi or dvi inputs, but I haven't looked in a long time. that would be interesting....

David Scott

10-11-04, 11:23 PM

I've seen some of the top of the line Denon's with HDMI and DVI switching capabilities. In another year I'm sure this feature will make it's way down to their other models as is usually the case. I'm wondering when and what type of new audio will be covered by new receivers, Dolby Digital Plus etc coming out with the new Blu-Ray/HD-DVD players?

JimWCB

10-12-04, 12:31 AM

Is there a downloadable manual for the 62HMX84 somewhere? It doesn't seem to be on Toshiba's site yet.

Is there any news on 1:1 PC connection via DVI yet for this set?

ndahbar

10-12-04, 12:33 AM

Originally posted by KevinSDiego
I was refering to component swithing. I haven't seen any receivers with hdmi or dvi inputs, but I haven't looked in a long time. that would be interesting....

Who cares? You can pick up one of these babies (highly recommended) that I posted about earlier (and you can get one for a lot less than that listed price):

http://www.audioauthority.com/aacconsumers/1154c.html

ndahbar

10-12-04, 02:30 AM

Originally posted by martin45

3. High Definition is where this set (and others) really shine. However dear viewers, there are also source material caveats here to be considered. Material filmed for HD come off much better than most movies and the such. HDNet is awesome; it sparkles with clarity as does most Discovery HD and live sports broadcasts.

Tell me about it. I was just watching HDNET a little bit ago, WOW. Absolutely STUNNING PQ. It is by far the best in the entire Dish Network lineup, and proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that easily noticable artifacts in HD programming is COMPLETELY the fault of the broadcasters and not our sets.

I also finally noticed today that setting my HD receiver to 1080i instead of 720p yields a better picture, even though the set's native rez is 720p. I don't know why, but I presume things like HDNET are sent in 1080i to begin with.

I am still blown away how awesome that looked. Absolutely perfect. The world surely will be a better place when all our channels are of the quality of HDNET.

drmarengo

10-12-04, 03:43 PM

I recieved my 62hm84 on saturday and immediately connected to direct tv sony hd200, via better cables HDMI/DVI cable, and immediately was looking at a horrible picture, TOTALLY ghosting to the point of unwatchable, I connected via component and picture is fine. I contacted PC Richards and they said it must be my box, I said absolutely not, as I had checked it on other sets in my house that use the dvi input. We agreed for me to bring my box to their store and check it on their display set they have.

I went today and connected it to their set and same thing was happening, store manager said see its your box, I said how about we make sure and check on a different set. We plugged it into 2 sammys and 1 Mitsu and it worked perfectly. Staore manager contacted the rep and he reported to him that have had some instances allready and checking into fix. I am probably going to swap this set for the mitsu(although I do not want to, I dont want to be stuck with a lemon that they never fix, and I want to use the hdmi input not component)

Obviously this is not haappening to many other sets as no one has mentioned this except for this other user and wierdly he purchased in Nj as well.

Ugh.

I have been messing with an LG LST-3150A receiver/DVD player for the last day and I am ready to blow up both the TV and the player/receiver.

Can anyone tell me how in the world I'm getting ghosting on HDTV via the DVI port on the receiver? Also, all the menuing system in the receiver (content not received over the antenna/coax) is ghosting on my HM84. Does this receiver/player just SUCK or what? I get ghosting on component cables too.. same cables I use for xbox (which displays 720p perfectly clean and crisp, no ghosting ever). Stranger though, is that I hook the LG up to my PC monitor (it has RGB out) and get absolutely no ghosting at all.

I have a bad feeling that the TV is trying to process the signal and failing, or that the receiver is giving me a whack signal.. or a combination of both.

Anyone have any ideas?

-A

Neo42

10-12-04, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by drmarengo
I recieved my 62hm84 on saturday and immediately connected to direct tv sony hd200, via better cables HDMI/DVI cable, and immediately was looking at a horrible picture, TOTALLY ghosting to the point of unwatchable, I connected via component and picture is fine. I contacted PC Richards and they said it must be my box, I said absolutely not, as I had checked it on other sets in my house that use the dvi input. We agreed for me to bring my box to their store and check it on their display set they have.

I went today and connected it to their set and same thing was happening, store manager said see its your box, I said how about we make sure and check on a different set. We plugged it into 2 sammys and 1 Mitsu and it worked perfectly. Staore manager contacted the rep and he reported to him that have had some instances allready and checking into fix. I am probably going to swap this set for the mitsu(although I do not want to, I dont want to be stuck with a lemon that they never fix, and I want to use the hdmi input not component)

Obviously this is not haappening to many other sets as no one has mentioned this except for this other user and wierdly he purchased in Nj as well.

This whole ghosting-over-HDMI-connection deal is scaring the hell out of me. I am starting to think that Toshiba has re-invented the digital signal and for some reason it is not agreeing with some devices. That or you, I and the store you purchased your set from all have defective units. My 30 day return frame has expired and I'm wondering how exactly my set will be fixed in the event that the HDMI input is faulty.

-A

nickindc03

10-12-04, 06:31 PM

Is there a way to connect a device with DVI out to the Toshiba's HDMI inpput and still get sound through the TV?

David Scott

10-12-04, 07:20 PM

I have the Samsung 360 directv receiver connected via a DVI to HDMI adapter and haven't had any problems with my picture on the 52HMX84 set. Component before the adapter came and the picture is equally good. As far as sound with a DVI to HDMI you must connect the white/red audio jacks which are alongside the HDMI inputs for the purpose of DVI's lack of audio.

kriore

10-12-04, 07:33 PM

Originally posted by nickindc03
Is there a way to connect a device with DVI out to the Toshiba's HDMI inpput and still get sound through the TV?

I don't think you can do this and watch the whole 52 inches. You might want to try this as a hack.

1) Choose an input on the TV; connect the audio while leaving off the video inputs.
2) Now choose the pop, switch audio inputs to listen to the blank program while watching HDMI input on another window.

I am not 100% sure this will work, give it a try. :D

drmarengo

10-12-04, 07:35 PM

I spoke with PC richards today and they are contacting toshiba through tech support via corporate headquarters to see if this can be resolved, I stressed to them in the begininning I will not permit a tech to alter the set in any way, the set is 2 days old and im not having swapped parts ,etc.
I also want to stress that I in no way have bad feelings twoards PC Richards, they have been really great about this, gave me option to get a different set or money back, etc. I just want to see if any else is having this issue, and to inform people of a possible issue before jumping into a 4K purchase.

So once again if anyone is using a dvi-hdmi adaptor through a HD STB, preferrably sony and is having this problem or not let us know.

thanks again,
everyone

PS- NEO where did u buy ur set from?

David Scott

10-12-04, 07:38 PM

here's a pic of hi-def football....xbox pics to come, I promise.

Neo42

10-12-04, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by drmarengo
I spoke with PC richards today and they are contacting toshiba through tech support via corporate headquarters to see if this can be resolved, I stressed to them in the begininning I will not permit a tech to alter the set in any way, the set is 2 days old and im not having swapped parts ,etc.
I also want to stress that I in no way have bad feelings twoards PC Richards, they have been really great about this, gave me option to get a different set or money back, etc. I just want to see if any else is having this issue, and to inform people of a possible issue before jumping into a 4K purchase.

So once again if anyone is using a dvi-hdmi adaptor through a HD STB, preferrably sony and is having this problem or not let us know.

thanks again,
everyone

PS- NEO where did u buy ur set from?

I bought my set at HHGregg. I connected my PC to the TV again today and can confirm that I am getting ghosting through the DVI-to-HDMI connection. I'm not really happy about this. Also note I had ghosting through DVI with the LG HD Receiver. I'd call Toshiba about it but it looks like I am not using an "approved" source (PC) at this time. Whatever.

-A

GSOgymrat

10-13-04, 12:20 AM

I didn't think you were suppose to connect a computer to the Toshiba via HDMI.

subbedout

10-13-04, 12:22 AM

I wonder if my fuzziness counts as ghosting? I'll have to hook up the cable box via DVI->HDMI again and see....

Oh and I bought mine from BB.

Mike Lanzarotta

10-13-04, 01:01 AM

Originally posted by nickindc03
Is there a way to connect a device with DVI out to the Toshiba's HDMI inpput and still get sound through the TV?

yes, use rca cables from the STB to the Toshiba, the page 15 of the manual shows this, use the inputs labeled "audio"

Mike Lanzarotta

10-13-04, 01:03 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by drmarengo
[So once again if anyone is using a dvi-hdmi adaptor through a HD STB, preferrably sony and is having this problem or not let us know.

I'm using a Hughes HTLHD with DVI out to a 52HM84, and the picture is great.

drmarengo

10-13-04, 09:04 PM

I have posted a few times in regards to this issue, and now more news.

I have a friend who is a store manager of 6ave electronics in jersey and I was ttelling him about the problem. He checked it in his store using the voom hd box with dvi out via monster (dvi/hdmi) cable to the toshiba and same issue. He is calling the rep for toshiba to inquire about this.

This problem is certainly a problem with the hdmi input on this line of sets and I have no choice at this point to return it and acquire the mitsubishi, which does not seem to have this issue.

I have long stood behing toshiba and their sets but unfortunatley cannot at this time, so to all be weary about this set. I know most will say well im not using this connection, but I stress do not underestimate yourself as hdmi is becoming industry standard, and eventually you will be using this connection whether it be dvd or satellite reciever, dont say later on you were not informed.

Neo42

10-13-04, 11:03 PM

Originally posted by drmarengo
I have posted a few times in regards to this issue, and now more news.

I have a friend who is a store manager of 6ave electronics in jersey and I was ttelling him about the problem. He checked it in his store using the voom hd box with dvi out via monster (dvi/hdmi) cable to the toshiba and same issue. He is calling the rep for toshiba to inquire about this.

This problem is certainly a problem with the hdmi input on this line of sets and I have no choice at this point to return it and acquire the mitsubishi, which does not seem to have this issue.

I have long stood behing toshiba and their sets but unfortunatley cannot at this time, so to all be weary about this set. I know most will say well im not using this connection, but I stress do not underestimate yourself as hdmi is becoming industry standard, and eventually you will be using this connection whether it be dvd or satellite reciever, dont say later on you were not informed.

Boy, that sure does suck for those of us that are stuck with the set. Let's hope that Toshiba will step in and provide some sort of upgrade/update/module replacement service for those of us having problems with this HDMI input. I DO have an extra warranty from HHGregg, maybe there is a return extension outlined it somewhere. I will have to dig.

-A

GSOgymrat

10-13-04, 11:18 PM

I've used 3 different HDMI/DVI DVD players with this set and a cablebox with DVI and not had any problems.

Quill

10-14-04, 12:31 AM

Originally posted by GSOgymrat
I've used 3 different HDMI/DVI DVD players with this set and a cablebox with DVI and not had any problems.

Any chance this is related to manufacture date? Or predominant in either HM or HMX models?

varkus

10-14-04, 01:30 AM

I haven't had any ghosting problems with my D* box to my HMX via DVI/HDMI. Haven't had the chance to try an HDMI DVD player on the set yet.

DLP Type R

10-14-04, 11:34 AM

The ghosting is probably due to the compatibility of the cable and devices with the variations in DVI such as DVI-I and DVI-D. This does not mean that the HDMI port is bad. If you had ghosting on an HDMI to HDMI connection, then you should be worried.

lorddcd

10-14-04, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by GSOgymrat
I didn't think you were suppose to connect a computer to the Toshiba via HDMI.

Those that had the misfortune of buying the set before reading here will not know that. The only way to find out that Toshiba does not support a pc connection for this set is by buying and then reading the seperate insert which states that a pc connection isn't supported. Consumers need to know these things beforehand as many people are buying DLPs with digital connections with the hopes of having a HTPC.

KevinSDiego

10-14-04, 12:44 PM

For those that have the HDMI port working great, please post your TV model, type of cable, device connected, and if appropriate - build date of tv.

Those with the problems, please do the same.

Maybe we'll find a pattern....

evanfrae

10-14-04, 01:38 PM

I have the HM84. I have the set currently hooked to a cable box through the HDMI port utilizing a HDMI to DVI monster cable. I haven't noticed any ghosting effects. I had the set hooked up for a couple of weeks on component before I got the HDMI/DVI cable and the jury is still out if the pq is that much better. I noticed that some of the colors looked slightly richer but my wife swears she can't tell any difference. I would be interested to know what experiences others have had in comparing component hook ups vs the HDMI connection with this set. :)

E. Evans

kriore

10-14-04, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by KevinSDiego
For those that have the HDMI port working great, please post your TV model, type of cable, device connected, and if appropriate - build date of tv.

Those with the problems, please do the same.

Maybe we'll find a pattern....

My TV's HDMI works great with a DVI-HDMI cable. Its a 52HM84, cheapo $20 DVI-HDMI cable from svideo.com, connected to a Samsung DVD-HD841.

hobbes382

10-14-04, 10:30 PM

For anyone who has an external OTA HD tuner connected to their Tosh xxHM/HMX84, which tuner are you using, and how convoluted is it to switch from normal broadcasts to the HD broadcasts? And can you switch HD channels with the Toshiba remote?

Thanks in advance.

986wang

10-15-04, 12:18 AM

I have the worst luck when it comes to purchasing big screen TVs. I have been shopping for about 2 weeks now looking at Samsung 61" HLP DLP TV, Sony Grand Wega 60" LCD, and the Toshiba 62 HM84 DLP TV. I ended up buying the Toshiba unit for $3500 at a local TV store and the unit was delivered to my house today. Although I won't have the HDTV cable box installed til next wednesday, I was impressed by the image this unit generates. 30 minutes after the delivery guys left, I noticed 40 evenly spaced uniform verticle white lines going down the screen. The lines are there when I watch cable tv (coaxial cable connected to Antenna 1 setting), DVD, and X box through video 1 and video 2. I purchased the Toshiba unit for its reputation of reliability and picture quality. I am shocked to dicscover that this New in Box Toshiba 62 HM84 is a peice of junk. I had replaced a reliable Sony 57" CRT HDTV for this crappy DLP unit. I'm starting to regret going the DLP route. Maybe I would be better off with the Sony Grand Wega LCD 60" unit. The TV store would send an inspector tomorrow to attempt a repair. I want to either get a replacement or I want my money back. Please give me some advice regarding my dilemma. Many thanks in advance.

ndahbar

10-15-04, 01:37 AM

Alright,

Well I've finally set up all my equipment in my HT and calibrated my audio and video to the max.

I used AVIA, and here are my settings which I painstakingly reached to very carefully:

Contrast: 67
Brightness: 44
Color: 42
Tint: +2G (I made sure this was right, and according to AVIA, I truly had this setting be slightly better than +1 and +3, so +2 stayed)
Sharpness: 25 (this was the hardest one to adjust properly for me)
DNR: OFF
Color temp: MEDIUM (did you ever hear the saying "Moderation is key" ?)

I saved these settings to PREFERENCE to all my inputs. I dunno about the HM series, but my TV definitely has separate video settings you can save for each input.

Note that I ALWAYS use LOW POWER mode, day or night. It's PLENTY bright enough.

Here are some important items to note in my HT:

Denon DVD-1910 player connected by DVI-to-HDMI cable
Dish Network Satellite Receivers:
1 HD (811 model #) connected via component
DVR receiver (model 511 i believe) via S-video
Xbox via component
PS2 via component
Gamecube via component

Using AVIA, I even spent the time to test using all the advanced video tests. Everything was perfect, with the only thing I noticed that was "off" was the Y/C test pattern screen which showed -0.07 delay for green and red, but perfect 0.00 for blue. The red bars over yellow background were perfect.

Looks like I don't have any overscan or pixel-cropping. I dunno if it has to do with the Denon player set to 720p output (native rez of the TV) but whatever, it's a good thing.

Pic Quality: Well, to really test this, you have to have at least decent calibration, and then view the very best possible picture you can obtain. Indeed, for me, it is using my hi-def sat receiver outputting @ 1080i and viewing either HDNET or DiscoveryHD. Results? Utterly FANTASTIC picture which I really can't imagine can be bettered on a plasma or CRT of similar size. It truly was outstanding. The sharpness, colors, you name it. I had 2 separate guests already state (separately) that "it looks like you can sitck your hand out and pull those people out of the screen. It's like 3D." and that is interesting they mention that since I never quite understood this "3D" look which is mentioned often on this forum by posters explaining great pictures. When I set the HD receiver to 720p, the PQ is reduced slightly, but I guess that make sense since HDNET and DiscoveryHD are broadcast in 1080i. Even though my set's native rez is 720p, it is making a noticable difference to my eyes. Of course, 480p output is inferior, easily seen.

Also, I got myself a RadioShack internal HD OTA antenna. Works great, most of my local HD channels here in Boston look GREAT. Not as good as HDNET, but close. For the Yankees/Sox game last night, FoxSports HD local channel looked SUPERB (although I had to set my receiver to 720p which is what Fox broadcasts in cuz in 1080i the picture was jumping up and down a little bit).

DVD movies: Great. Obviously cannot quite compare to great quality HD channels, but after some testing with great-quality disc transfers like "Gladiator", I can safely say it is extremely impressive. Yes the Denon may be exhibiting some macroblocking or whatever, hard to tell due to my inexperience with that, but certainly nothing looks BAD. I have no jumping frames or anything, and I don't think I see any green push. 720p = 1080i to my eyes off the DVD player, unlike with satellite. However, I can EASILY tell a difference from 480p to 720p.

Gaming: I have no 720p games, unfortunately. But all the consoles look GREAT. I have to admit I barely gamed on this set yet, I need to log a lot more hours into it. :D Nonetheless my friends had nothing negative to say and in fact just totally enjoyed battling me in PGR2 on xbox splitscreen and on SoulCalibur2 on my Gamecube. Speaking of, I cannot tell any diff between the Nintendo's interlaced vs progressive mode output (hold the red B button while you power up and the menu will come up asking if u wanna display in progressive: NOTE: This will ONLY be available if you use component cables). PS2...well, let me just say I am eagerly awaiting GrandTheftAuto: San Andreas for the REAL test ! ;)

SD channels: Not bad. Nothing noticably crappier than on my old 32 inch CRT. I have no issues at all with watching 4x3 material, and my Dish receiver gives me the option of black or gray bars, so it's a non-issue. I use stretch sometimes if I feel like it depending on the show, although I know it clips off a tiny bit off the left and right edges of the picture. So usually I stick with regular non-stretch modes. Of course for giggles I connected my coax wall-jack to the TV and wow does THAT look awful compared to HD! Haha. But of course...

The TV aesthetically is AWESOME. Again, every guest of mine thought it was a plasma (gawd, especially the ladies...they all get turned on by "PLASMA" I dunno why, maybe the NAME of it sounds sexy to them, anyway) and they all think it cost 6-8 grand. It is only 14 inches deep, which is awesome. My living room is only wide enough to have me sit 8 ft away from the TV on my couch, which isn't that close so it's alright. So I appreciate the 14" depth.

I appreciate the slow-power-down feature. That, plus the low-power mode usage, leads me to believe my bulb will last me 2+ years easily.

Black levels? I seriously cannot tell ANY lacking handling of all levels of black. Then again, I need to watch the entire LOTR trilogy (the super-high-quality Special Extended Edition discs) to pay attention the whole time to REALLY be able to tell. Well anyway, as your own research has shown you, the current-gen of DLPs, especially the HD2+ ones, handle blacks extremely well. My set proved that to me already, pretty sure.

Rainbows? Yes, I can easily see them, but I have to ACTIVELY look for them by looking away and then back again at the TV quickly, and messing around with my eyes. But when the heck am I gonna do that normally? NEVER. And when the rainbows appear, it is for such a short duration, it doesn't really matter.

Eye fatigue: Yes I had some the first few days of watching. Possible culprits: Distance to this huge 52 inch screen, contrast/brightness settings out-of-the-box, angle of watching, rainbows (?), and just needing some time to adjust. Personally I think it's mostly the last thing I mentioned, because now, I don't get eye fatigue. Then again I *did* calibrate it, and I taught my brain how to deal with rainbows, if they ever show (very rare if I do not ACTIVELY seek them).

Connections: As you can tell I have a lot of equipment to hookup, and I woulda been in trouble with only 2 HDMI and 2 component inputs. But luckily, I got one of these ---> http://www.audioauthority.com/aacconsumers/1154c.html which are AWESOME and a LIFE SAVER and HIGHLY RECOMMENDED. Auto-switching A/V capability is so darn convenient, I cannot even begin to tell you. By the way, this thing can be had for much less than that $194 MSRP. ;)

Overall: Give me a break. For the money I paid, nothing can touch this DLP. Clearly better color and black level reproduction than almost any LCD out there, and a hella lot less compromises than RPTV CRTs.

Here's to enjoying many many more days with this impressively-engineered piece of display technology, and to sharing our experiences together.

Last but not least, I'll post a lot more pix soon, but for now here's my setup (sorry for crap picture, I just took it quick).

PEACE OUT for now. -ND

elmalloc

10-15-04, 08:35 AM

Here' sa pic of my stand and a pic of my 46Hm84 with paper mario on component. Nothing is calibrated, sharpness is at zero and that's it for now (no dvd player yet!):

http://s92486709.onlinehome.us/images/Stand.jpg
http://s92486709.onlinehome.us/images/TV/Hummina.jpg

I'm looking at forming an HTPC, I have an hdmi to DVI plug and a DVI 2m cable that I wlil look at it soon...

-ELmO

hobbes382

10-15-04, 10:10 AM

Does anyone know when the /94 series is supposed to hit the market?

Has anyone seen one yet?

DLP Type R

10-15-04, 11:23 AM

986wang,
Sorry for your sitch, unfortunately, the numbers game caught up to you and there is bound to be a few DOAs in the population. Did you power up the TV while the delivery guys were there? I made sure the TV worked fine before my delivery guys left. Just some reassurance.

KevinSDiego

10-15-04, 11:42 AM

I haven't seen a HM94 in a store yet, but you can get them. I ordered my 46HM94 through Tweeter and am supposed to get it on the 27th. Crutchfield has the 52HMX94 here (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-nJsjam635AJ/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?i=05252HMX94&cc=01&search=52HMx94) , and others are getting them in stock, here (http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php?masterid=3499789&found=1&search=46HM94)

kriore

10-15-04, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by elmalloc
Here' sa pic of my stand and a pic of my 46Hm84 with paper mario on component. Nothing is calibrated, sharpness is at zero and that's it for now (no dvd player yet!):

I'm looking at forming an HTPC, I have an hdmi to DVI plug and a DVI 2m cable that I wlil look at it soon...

-ELmO

I like your stand elmalloc. What is the make and cost ??

elmalloc

10-15-04, 01:32 PM

It's from "ZLine",I believe. I bought it at Circuit City for $230. It is quite expensive for a stand, but I couldn't find the 46" Toshiba stand in stock ($300).

The shelves are TEMPERED GLASS and weigh about 40 lbs each, you may need 2 people when assembling it (you have to hold hte glass shelf very straight while trying to place it through 6 poles).

-ELmO

stiplit

10-15-04, 06:10 PM

I too am waiting IMPATIENTLY for the 52HM94. It is supposed to be out this month. The thought of integrated tuner/TV Guide On Screen/Symbio DVR is quite a slick set up.

GSOgymrat

10-16-04, 09:45 AM

ndahbar,

Thanks for posting your calibration and review. When you did your calibration did you have the black level on your 1910 DVD player on or off?

DCinDC

10-16-04, 09:51 AM

Originally posted by stiplit
I too am waiting IMPATIENTLY for the 52HM94. It is supposed to be out this month. The thought of integrated tuner/TV Guide On Screen/Symbio DVR is quite a slick set up.

New to this thread so sorry if this is an old question, but can anyone tell me the MSRP for this set and when it's expected to arrive?

Thanks,
DC

baymar

10-16-04, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by KevinSDiego
For those that have the HDMI port working great, please post your TV model, type of cable, device connected, and if appropriate - build date of tv.

Those with the problems, please do the same.

Maybe we'll find a pattern....

OK- I am using a Hughes 10-250 HD/DVR and found that they have serious failure rates on the HDMI port. I am on my third box (it is working fine). The remaining issue has to do with resetting the port. The only way I can get the TV to 'see' the port on the dvr upon startup is to power down the DVR (pull the cord-standby doesn't work), turn on the TV,power up the DVR (this takes6-8 min) and all is well. Not a good situation for my family so I revert to Component interface for daily use. Still working the issue at this point. I purchased the TV and DVR about 5 weeks ago.

tristanc

10-16-04, 07:31 PM

Originally posted by KevinSDiego
For those that have the HDMI port working great, please post your TV model, type of cable, device connected, and if appropriate - build date of tv.

Those with the problems, please do the same.

Maybe we'll find a pattern.... My HDMI works perfect--not a single problem yet:

62HM84
Monster HDMI/DVI cable (the cost of impatience...)
Motorola 6208 DVR/HD cable box

--T.

GSOgymrat

10-16-04, 07:54 PM

No HDMI problems

52HM84 with Monster DVI/HDMI cable to Denon DVD1910.
Also worked fine with Samsung HD841 and Toshiba SD-V592 with the HDMI it came with.

moman19

10-16-04, 09:30 PM

I just bought a Toshiba 52HMX84. Is there any real noticeable difference in image quality between component cables vs. HMDI? I've tried this in the past with a lessor set and could see no difference. I have quite a lot of $$$ tied up in Monster cables.

Can you SEE the difference or the cable merely more convenient and idiot proof?

bfdtv

10-16-04, 10:19 PM

moman,

Yes, there is a difference. For the best picture on the 52MHX84, you should use HDMI. Do not buy expensive cables. Performance is identical for digital cables so long as they are not defective. You can get a HDMI cable for less than $30 (http://www.pacificcable.com/HDMI_Cables.html).

Monster cables are no better than most cables available at 1/5 the cost. You bought into their pretty cable covers and marketing hype once -- be sure not to do it ever again. You should never pay more than $20-$30 for digital audio or video cables. If you want to put in the extra effort, you could probably make your own for under $15.

Neo42

10-17-04, 05:13 PM

I get ghosting via component cable AND DVI->HDMI connection using the LG LST-3510 OTA/QAM receiver. I got no such ghosting using the RGB output with my PC monitor. Component cables are the same I use with xbox; a combination that has consistently produced a crisp and clean 720p picture.

I also get ghosting using DVI->HDMI from my PC video card (with zero overscan compensation). I have tested this in several video modes and 2 different video cards. I know there is a sheet that comes with it that says not to be used as a PC monitor but DVI is DVI, or is someone lying to us? Even if I could live with the overscan, there is still ghosting that's far beyond acceptable. Will the HDMI port accept any type of analog signal? I know DVI cables can carry an analog signal but I assumed HDMI was digital only.

Maybe the PC signal is no good, and maybe the LG receiver was just garbage? Or maybe the Toshiba is garbage. I guess only time will tell.

-A

rossdross

10-17-04, 11:22 PM

I have ordered the Pioneer Elite DV-59AVi and it should be here in 3-4 days. It is setting me back some serious $$$$ (around $970 when all is done) but I don't have a progressive scan DVD, let alone a top notch one that will handle SACDs. This DVD player should take care of my needs for quite some time. This past three weeks has marked roughly $9,000 in Home Theater purchases for me so I am pretty well tapped out. The savings is running low so time to take it easy for awhile!

too...http://www.audioreview.com/DVD+Players/pscDigital%2CSources+DV-59AVI/PRD_298495_1587crx.aspx

I am anxious to test out the HDMI to HDMI interface and I will post my results then.

I have bought the HD Direct TV box and HD antenna (with Sunday ticket) and they will be installed next Saturday. HDMI outputs aren't available (except $1000 Tivo models) so I went with the $200 Samsung model with DVI out. I plan on getting a DVI to HDMI converter. I still have to purchase an HDMI switch until HDMI receivers come down to the $1000 price point I require, as a max price, for purchase. Until then component sound will have to do :) At least I am positioned for the future.......

The only thing left to buy now is a new receiver (OUCH).
http://www.tvauthority.com/Search.asp

Hopefully I will hill from Tweeter's installers (Hillcrest here in Dallas) and I will be able to get my new speakers installed also on Saturday. I purchased the Polk LC series, in wall speakers, and LSI Bipole/Dipole speakers for the rear. This room is gonna rock when everything is said and done.

I will post pics once everything is installed and good to go!

Dan

varkus

10-18-04, 02:01 PM

Nice review ndahbar, very similary to my experience with the 52HMX84.

Haven't had the chance to run Avia on the set yet myself (still waiting on a decent DVD player), but my eye-balling came out pretty close to what you've got.

I'm still too busy drooling over this set to write a real review, but I probably don't have anything more to add than ndahbar. No regrets with the set - and I don't personally think you can beat the size/features/quality for the price with any other set at the moment.

xb1032

10-18-04, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by ndahbar
For the Yankees/Sox game last night, FoxSports HD local channel looked SUPERB (although I had to set my receiver to 720p which is what Fox broadcasts in cuz in 1080i the picture was jumping up and down a little bit).

I tend to think that (at least my 62HM84) the Toshibas have a touch of yellowish tint to them. I watched the game last night (OTA HD) and Bernie Williams face (along with others) had a sligthly yellowish tint. I've notice this on other things too. It seems like green gets a little bit of a yellowish tint to it to in football games. Watch the game tonight and see if you notice it too.

ndahbar

10-19-04, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by GSOgymrat
ndahbar,

Thanks for posting your calibration and review. When you did your calibration did you have the black level on your 1910 DVD player on or off?

Off. I was full-aware of this to disable it even before I bought the thing, based on findings I read about in this forum.

ndahbar

10-19-04, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by xb1032
I tend to think that (at least my 62HM84) the Toshibas have a touch of yellowish tint to them. I watched the game last night (OTA HD) and Bernie Williams face (along with others) had a sligthly yellowish tint. I've notice this on other things too. It seems like green gets a little bit of a yellowish tint to it to in football games. Watch the game tonight and see if you notice it too.

Admittedly, this is the toughest thing for me to "see". That is to say, inaccurate color "push", whether too much green or red or yellow...I guess I am just lazy to pay attention to it?

Thing is it is something so easily affected by someone's color / tint settings. I optimized mine carefully using AVIA and if u wanna know what I used, see my post on the previous page with the lengthy review.

When watching Kill Bill 1 (*before* calibration), my friend pointed out that in the hospital scene, things looked too green, especially Uma's hair. Then I told him I see what you are saying but nah, Tarantino did it on purpose. Because after she goes to the parking lot to look for the "Pussy Wagon", all the colors looked extremely vivid and realistic again. I mean, there was a VERY bright yellow piece of leather in the car and it looked PERFECTLY 100% pure yellow, and if the TV was screwed up (or dvd player), it woulda looked a little green no? That's why I say I think things are good. Cuz it cannot be "bad" in one scene, but then fine in another. It's white or black. No in between.

pier0188

10-19-04, 08:41 PM

I am having trouble with DVD playback through my new 52HM84. I am using an SD-H400 DVD/DVR and component inputs. On all dvd playback I have black bars at the top and bottom of the set.

I have the progressive switch in the "P" position at the back of the set. I have tried settings on the player and on the TV. Before I call service I'd like to seek help here.

Aspect ratio is set to : Auto on the TV and "Full" in the pic size

dvd settings:
16:9 Widescreen for TV Shape
Progressive 4:3 Output set to "Full"
Progressive Conversion is set to "Auto"

The progressive button on the remote doesn't do anything AFAIK.

HELP!

Ten 99

10-19-04, 08:55 PM

Pier,

Please read this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=332900) for answers to the black bar question. It is basically FAQ material.

pier0188

10-19-04, 09:01 PM

I have large black bars, maybe about 4in top and bottom, is that normal by that threads standards?

zj4x4

10-19-04, 10:31 PM

Pier,

Yes, that's normal. Think about it this way:

I have a TV that is a 16:9 ratio. Ignoring the diagonal measurement upon which TVs are normally measured, we'll say my 16:9 TV is 48" wide and 27" tall (16/9 and 48/27 = 1.78). HD broadcasts come in at full screen for me. Now, I pop in my favorite 2.35:1 aspect ratio action DVD. At 2.35:1, it fills up the screen horizontally, meaning that it's 48" wide. With a little math (48 / 2.35), I know that my movie will measure a little over 20" tall, leaving the rest of the space with black bars at the bottom and top.

Hope this helps,
Z

bfdtv

10-19-04, 11:45 PM

pier,

How many DVDs have you tried? Roughly half of all DVDs are 1.85:1, and should fill the screen without noticeable black bars. You should only see black bars on DVDs with a 2.35:1 aspect ratio. Refer to the back of the DVD box (or an online search for information about the film), as many list the aspect ratio on the back.

Some older 4:3 letterbox DVDs with 1.85:1 ratio won't fill your screen because they require scaling, which the Toshiba SD-H400 DVD player doesn't offer. If you had a better DVD player, these would correctly fill your screen. Note the SD-H400 is not a very good DVD player, feature-wise and PQ-wise.

In general, when you are commenting on the performance or behavior of your DVD player and display, it's best to note exactly what DVDs you are trying.

xb1032

10-20-04, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by bfdtv
pier,
Some older 4:3 letterbox DVDs with 1.85:1 ratio won't fill your screen because they require scaling, which the Toshiba SD-H400 DVD player doesn't offer. If you had a better DVD player, these would correctly fill your screen. Note the SD-H400 is not a very good DVD player, feature-wise and PQ-wise.

If this is the case, I believe you can set your TVs aspect ratio to Theaterwide1. Don't remember the setting but over the weekend I watch Cool Runnings on my Toshiba 62HM84 which is 1.85:1 and it came up in stretched when I set the TV to full. I then changed it to Theaterwide (or whatever option 2 was) and it filled the screen properly.

xb1032

10-20-04, 02:35 PM

Back to the DVI-> HDMI issue, I've hooked up the Samsung OTA tuner via Acoustic 6' HDMI cable ($55) with an Acoustic Research DVI->DHMI adapter ($25) from Best Buy. I tried it out with Monday night Football and the Red Sox vs. Yankees game the other night and it looks much better over component. Component is brighter and much sharper. I don't really know how to describe it when using the HDMI input other than it comes in much darker with higher contrast and edges look blocky. On some scenes it doesn't look to bad. The Toshiba HDMI DVD player hooked up to it via HDMI looked aweful. I'm starting to wonder if there are issues with the HDMI connection on the TV. The Samsung hooked up looked OK and may not be noticed as looking bad to the casual user but to me it definitely had an issue with Sharpness and details. Anyone call Toshiba about this?

Saloooon

10-20-04, 03:06 PM

I received my 62hm84 this morning. I recently moved and left my 56" Samsung hln with my sister after having it for a year. I was very excited to connect everything and start watching HD again(its been over a month, I was going thru withdrawals :-) . I first connected my Voom receiver via dvi to hdmi using a pacificcable.com dvi>hdmi cable. the voom receiver was set to 480i and the picture wasn't so good, I switched to 480p, and still the picture wasn't so good. I then switched to 720p and 1080i and all I saw was snow, nothing I tried changed that. I imagine this isn't what people are considering "ghosting" but I'm not sure. I then used component cables to the voom receiver and was able to set the box at 1080i and 720p. I then hooked up my Samsung 931 DVD player via dvi>hdmi and was able to use the little button on the front to send 720p and 1080i signals with no problem. I can't say the picture is perfect yet as I still have to do some tweaking and watch a couple different movies to be able to compare it to the old Sammy HLN, but I also don't think I'm seeing the "ghosting" others refer to. Overall, I think the picture is coming around, the HD didn't blow me away like I remember it doing with the Samsung, but like I said before, I have some tweaking to do, and I imagine there is a period of burn in for the lamp, so maybe it will get better. I have a hdmi switch on order and would like to use the dvi out on the voom instead of the component but I cant seem to get it to work. any ideas?
ps: this thread has been very helpful and informative, thank you to all who have been posting.

xb1032

10-20-04, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by Saloooon
I then switched to 720p and 1080i and all I saw was snow, nothing I tried changed that.

I too owned a Samsung HLN before the Toshiba. I had the Samsung DVI DVD player hooked up via DVI to in once and all I got was snow too. I then powered down both the TV & DVD player and removed and reseated the cable and powered both back on and they came up fine then. you might want to try that.

I'm not seeing 'ghosting' via HDMI, and I'm not sure how to desribe it. it looks more like some colors are saturated maily around edges. I set my settings for Component 1 & HDMI so they'd be exact and the Component input comes through brighter and sharpness is good. The HDMI input has a much higher contrast and dark areas are much darker and lose details and sharpness is just not right. I'm a little concerned as hooking up the Toshiba HDMI player just looked bad and there was no conversion as it is HDMI to HDMI.

bfdtv

10-20-04, 04:39 PM

Has Toshiba renamed the HM94 to the HMX94?

I see several vendors like Crutchfield advertising the HMX94 (which isn't on Toshiba's site) with two HDMI inputs, rather than the HM94.

Saloooon

10-20-04, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by xb1032
I too owned a Samsung HLN before the Toshiba. I had the Samsung DVI DVD player hooked up via DVI to in once and all I got was snow too. I then powered down both the TV & DVD player and removed and reseated the cable and powered both back on and they came up fine then. you might want to try that.

Thanks xb1032, I just tried that and no luck :( . I'm going to try and call toshiba tomorrow and see what they say.

Sc0rp10n

10-20-04, 05:17 PM

the toshiba 62hmX84 has 2 HDMI ports
the toshiba 62hmX94 has 2 HDMI ports and CableCARD implementation.

i have purchased (and shipped today) a 62HMX84 and i can't wait for next week.

Neo42

10-20-04, 05:20 PM

For those confused about ghosting.. it looks like there are transparent copies of objects offset slightly on the sides. For instance a white solid circle might appear to have shadows around it's left and right sides.. this is what i'm referring to as ghosting. I'm not sure exactly what would cause this over a DVI connection.. I don't know how it could possibly be the cable (as this would cause digital-like artifacts, not analog-type distortion). Ghosting is also really obvious on the left and right edges of a 4:3 program.. one side will be darker than the background, and the other side will be lighter than the background (just the far edges)

Hope that clarifies. Right now I'm trying to locate a Sam SIR-451 locally but it seems like they are out of stock everywhere and nothing is shipping anytime soon :-/. maybe I will get a DVD player w/ DVI output just for testing purposes.

-A

nickindc03

10-20-04, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by xb1032
Back to the DVI-> HDMI issue, I've hooked up the Samsung OTA tuner via Acoustic 6' HDMI cable ($55) with an Acoustic Research DVI->DHMI adapter ($25) from Best Buy. I tried it out with Monday night Football and the Red Sox vs. Yankees game the other night and it looks much better over component. Component is brighter and much sharper. I don't really know how to describe it when using the HDMI input other than it comes in much darker with higher contrast and edges look blocky. On some scenes it doesn't look to bad. The Toshiba HDMI DVD player hooked up to it via HDMI looked aweful. I'm starting to wonder if there are issues with the HDMI connection on the TV. The Samsung hooked up looked OK and may not be noticed as looking bad to the casual user but to me it definitely had an issue with Sharpness and details. Anyone call Toshiba about this?

I was just going to post the same concern. I received my DVI to HDMI cable today and the picture looks crappy . . . not nearly as good as it does through component. The HD feeds don't really even look HD anymore -like xb1032 said they are much darker and not nearly as clear. I also notice more audio-video sync issues through that connection. I would just use component instead but I need to take advantage of all my HD inputs.

Have others noticed this problem? If you're device is hooked up through HDMI, have you ever tried component for comparison?

And if this issue can't be resolved, does anyone know of a good way to expand the number of component hook-ups via some type of switcher that wouldn't diminish the connection quality? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

pier0188

10-20-04, 09:42 PM

OK, I have another newb question.

When my tv was delivered I saw a faint greyish area on the screen, about 5" long and 3" wide, there is also a semi-round one. I am assuming these are blemishes from somebody bumping the screen. It is barely noticeable when playing stuff, to unnoticeable.

I would like my TV to be perfect, since I paid 3k for it, but nor do I want to return it without reason. Does anybody else have these marks or is your screen completely "clean"?

Thanks
Shawn

KC38

10-21-04, 01:23 AM

Just got a 52HM84 and Samsung 841 last Sunday from BB. It is my first observation:

1) The Samsung 841 component input is acceptable but not as good as the DVD demo in BB.
2) The Samsung 841 DVI-HDMI input is worse than component IP. Darker and less detail in the darker area even with higher brightness.
3) SD is acceptable but not as good as my old 35" CRT TV. I use 0 sharpness.
4) Had play with the "S" menu. It changes the horizontal and vertical position; color and some others. But none has altered the gray side bars.

Adelphia will install the HDDVR on Friday. I shall post further result. If the HDMI input with the cable HDDVR doesn't work fine, I shall return the TV.

bfdtv

10-21-04, 01:29 AM

KC38,

You might want to check the the AVS DVD players forum. The Samsung 841 is not one of the better DVD players.

zeicht

10-21-04, 03:33 AM

hi ya' all, finally pulled the trigger on the 52HMX84, been waiting for it for quite some time now...jus got available last monday...got a pretty good deal for it i believe.....cant wait for the delivery!

KC38

10-21-04, 09:46 AM

Thank you bfdtv,

I found that my experience with the 841 has been well reported there.

lorddcd

10-21-04, 11:56 AM

Does anyone know why the picture size modes are unavailable in 720p? I'm thinking if we could change the modes in 720p we might be able to get 1:1 pixel for HTPC. Even in 1080i the "Full" mode is unavailable.

JoeInNVa

10-21-04, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by KC38
Just got a 52HM84 and Samsung 841 last Sunday from BB. It is my first observation:

1) The Samsung 841 component input is acceptable but not as good as the DVD demo in BB.
2) The Samsung 841 DVI-HDMI input is worse than component IP. Darker and less detail in the darker area even with higher brightness.
3) SD is acceptable but not as good as my old 35" CRT TV. I use 0 sharpness.
4) Had play with the "S" menu. It changes the horizontal and vertical position; color and some others. But none has altered the gray side bars.

Adelphia will install the HDDVR on Friday. I shall post further result. If the HDMI input with the cable HDDVR doesn't work fine, I shall return the TV.

Pack the TV up.

xb1032

10-21-04, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by lorddcd
Does anyone know why the picture size modes are unavailable in 720p? I'm thinking if we could change the modes in 720p we might be able to get 1:1 pixel for HTPC. Even in 1080i the "Full" mode is unavailable.

The picture size can be modified on my OTA Samsung tuner but not of the TV so I'd assume it's restricted on the TV's user menu.

SomeDude

10-21-04, 06:43 PM

I believe that someone had mentioned earlier in the thread that the HMX was indeed capable of displaying black sidebars rather than grey ones while viewing 4:3, and someone else had asked whether the HM84 was also capable of this. Depending on the STB it is; I've attached a pic that I took a few minutes ago of a 52HM84 if anyone is concerned that this might not be the case. The Panny DLP is to the left of the Tosh.

The feed to this set was from a ExpressVu HD receiver; a Motorola DCT6200 does the same.

Unfortunately, after watching a PBS HD feed for about ten minutes rainbows were painfully obvious to my eyes on either set. I didn't see any while watching a Panasonic CART clip a couple of months ago. I'm bummed. Right out of the box, both sets look terrific even with a less-than-perfect source.

bfdtv

10-21-04, 07:16 PM

Any Toshiba can use black bars (and avoid gray ones) if you use a cable or satellite set-top box and select the option to convert everything to 720p. However, that won't yield the best picture on SD channels. To get the best possible picture on SD / analog channels, you've got to pass them to the TV as 480i, and when you do that, the Toshiba adds grey bars.

Some may be willing to sacrifice a little bit of PQ on analog channels for black bars, but that is a tradeoff we shouldn't have to make.

I'm surprised no one has yet found a service menu setting on the Toshiba to change the grey bars (on SD content) to black.

zj4x4

10-21-04, 09:38 PM

Does anyone else notice some flickering in solid reds? This is very noticeable in the Astros/Cardinals game on Fox HD. The reds in the Fox graphics flicker in different shades. You can also see this if you look at the dirt behind the batter.

This may just be a DLP thing, but I want to make sure that it's not a problem with my set.

Thanks,
Z

hobbes382

10-21-04, 11:18 PM

mnphats

10-22-04, 07:21 AM

I have my cable box connected via HDMI cable, and my DVD player via component. When I switch source off HDMI, then try to come back to the HDMI source, I get a screen flicker. I end up shutting everything down for a reset. I am using Monster 400 HDMI to DVI cable. Any advice for this newb would be appreciated.

Ciao

10-22-04, 08:12 PM

How quiet is the fan?

hobbes382

10-22-04, 08:27 PM

Everytime I walk into a store to compare sets, the Samsung Kirk model just seems to blow everything away. I swear I have seen a Kirk next to a 52HM84 and couldn't tell the difference. Tonight I was in a store comparing again (trying to convince myself to take the leap with the Tosh). At first, the Tosh didn't compare at all to the Kirk. It looked like an older DLP or LCD rear projection unit; flat with unrealistic colors and black crush. After playing with the Tosh settings for a *long* time, I finally got it close the Kirk. I know you can't get it to the optimuim without a calibration disc. But as good as I got it, the Kirk just seemed to have a bit more depth to the picture. It was almost as if the contrast ratio of the Kirk was a little better, making it a bit more like looking through a window.

So my question is, can the Tosh picture settings be set to yield a picture with the same depth and realism as the Samsung Kirk? Or does the Kirk really have a bit higher constrast ratio? The out-of-the-box settings on the Kirk give a picture that just blows me away everytime I see it. But I'm getting tired of the continual delays of the 74/77series, and am leaning toward the Tosh 94 series. Then again, spending this much green on a TV, I want the best picture I can get.

Any opinions and experiences would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

KevinSDiego

10-22-04, 11:16 PM

From when I compared the Toshiba to the Kirk, they were very equal in picture quality.

You have to remember, when you go into a store, many people have done what you did, mess with the settings! So you probably ended up seeing a totally whacked out Toshiba. When it comes to the 2, you need to see if you can deal with the Kirk pedastal, or prefer a table top model.

General concensus around here is the Toshiba pic quality is top notch and hard to beat, especially for the price. Also compare it to the Mits and Panny, even the LG. All of the problems with the Samsungs (63s) quickly steered me away from them (didn't like the pic quality of the HD3 chip either).

Getting my 46HM94 next Wed. (crosses fingers for delivery). I think the race is on to see who gets the 94 series first... :D

tristanc

10-22-04, 11:34 PM

Originally posted by Ciao
How quiet is the fan? I do not notice the fan at all, even in a quiet room. My DVR is the loudest component I have (and it's annoyingly loud), so YMMV.

--T.

tristanc

10-22-04, 11:41 PM

Originally posted by KevinSDiego
From when I compared the Toshiba to the Kirk, they were very equal in picture quality.
I'll second this. I think you'd be hard pressed to tell the two apart in a blind test (can you have a blind test comparing TVs? :)).

Seriously, between the Kirk and the Toshiba, it's really about features and looks, not PQ.

If HTPC is in your future, go with the Sammy. If you want a better value, go with the Toshiba. If you hate the look of the stand on the Sammy, go with the Toshiba. If you hate the look of the side speakers, go with the Sammy.

But if you base your decision on PQ, you've only clouded the decision making process.

--T.

KC38

10-23-04, 12:53 AM

My cable company installed the Motorola MOXI BMC9012 stb today. I was disappointed that its DVI output is disabled (the tech told me that it is disabled on purpose and the supervisor told me that Motorola will have software update to enable the port soon.) JoeInNVa might already know my result two days ago.

After playing around with the component input, I am very satisfied with the HD PQ. PBS HD looks as good as any DLP set I saw. My old DVD also looks good with component input - better than the DVI output of the Samsung 841.

The STB doesn't have the option to display in SD mode with 1080I or 720P output. With 480P output, the gray side bar is still there.

I also browsed around the MIT DLP forums. They said that the MIT use the D-A-D approach and the HDMI isn't better than 1080i component.

I am happy with the component inputs and I decided to keep the TV and return the DVD player. I shall give up with the DVI devices until the technology becomes more stable.

hobbes382

10-23-04, 04:09 AM

With regard to settings and trying to make the Tosh picture look the same as on the Samsung Kirk model, I found this Tosh feature noted in a product description:

"Black Level Expander
This capability allows viewers to set the reference black threshold cutoff to either Normal or Enhanced. The Enhanced position expands the overall contrast range in the picture, resulting in richer, deeper blacks, finer tonal gradation and gray scale reproduction."

Does anyone know how to change this setting between the two modes: normal or enhanced? I couldn't find it in the picture settings menu.

Thanks.

bfdtv

10-23-04, 05:30 AM

I also browsed around the MIT DLP forums. They said that the MIT use the D-A-D approach and the HDMI isn't better than 1080i component.

Could you possibly provide a link?

KC38

10-23-04, 12:42 PM

bfdtv

I am too new to include links.

KC38

10-23-04, 12:44 PM

Now I have graduated.

MIT HDMI (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=460330&highlight=HDMI)

jwb474

10-23-04, 07:31 PM

My thoughts and problems with 52HM84

I just got the Toshiba 52HM84 About a week ago.
I do like the picture quality. I do see some rainbows but not much and compared the the Hitachi 51s715 that I returned for numerous problems. I like the tradoffs of the DLP better.

The Two problems I am having concern the "bowing" of the picture and the HDMI input. The bowing I am seeing is when a letter box movie is shown, I see the top and bottom bowed in the middle slightly and when a 4:3 is shown I see the right and left sides bowed in slightly. It is kinda like a pincushion in a CRT set. I look in the service menu and could not find an adjustment for this varible. I am guessing that it is a mechanical adjustment although I could not find anything in the service manual to adjust this. Any one else have the knowhow to fix this problem?
The second problem with the HDMI concerns the way you have to handshake the signals. I had this problem with the Hitachi also. You need to sequence the power up of the devices to get them to work. This leave out a HDMI or DVI switcher on the fly which I can do with component. For the time being I intend to stay with component until things start working smoother.
Hope that anyone has any further thoughts on these issues.

pdawg17

10-23-04, 08:21 PM

Can someone point me to the specs for the HMX94? I am "this close" to getting an HMX84 but saw this thread and am curious about some of the specs (a comparison would be nice)...specifically, what does an OTA tuner do for you (how would I get OTA signals otherwise with a Directivo setup (non-HD)?

Sc0rp10n

10-23-04, 09:19 PM

if you need cablecard and integrated atsc tuner - get the 94. if you don't need that (i.e. have an external tuner or have satellite) go with the 84. that's about it for the differences.

KevinSDiego

10-23-04, 09:48 PM

52HMX94 (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-9zcjf6nVqA4/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?i=05252HMX94&cc=01&search=52HMx94)

The differences on the 84 and 94 are ALOT more than just cable card.

TV Guide On Screen program guide
181-channel NTSC tuner
2 IEEE 1394 ports
coaxial digital audio output for Dolby® Digital

OmniViewer(TM) Memory Card Slots accommodate 5 different types of memory cards (SD, MM, MS, CF, SM) and includes a JPEG Viewer program that allows the TV to display pictures from most digital cameras.

krc

10-24-04, 10:39 AM

Here is a table I put together comparing the features and specs of the Toshiba line. These specs are for the 62” models (because that’s what I’m interested in) but except for physical measurements should be correct for the 52”.

Info came from the Toshiba site and other sources. If you see any errors, let me know and I will be happy to edit the table.

Hope it helps.
Ken

62HM84 62HMX84 62HM94 62HMX94
62” DIAGONAL HD MONITOR DLP X X X X
• SRS® WOW X X X X
• Separate Woofers and Tweeters X X X X
• StableSound® X X X X
• 40-Watts Total Wattage X X X X
• HD Monitor DLP™ Projection Television
with HDMI™ X X
• Integrated HD DLP™ Projection TV with
ATSC/QAM Tuners X X
• Two HDMI™, Two IEEE 1394 Ports (DTV Link) &
Dolby® Digital Output X
• TV Guide On-Screen™ Interactive Program Guide X X
• TheaterNet™ Icon IR/1394 Control System X X
• TALEN™ (Toshiba Advantage Light Engine)
DLP™ Engine X X X X
• HD2+ DLP™ Chip with Full 1280 720 Mirrors
with Filled Vias X X X X
• Toshiba PixelPure™ Proprietary Digital
Video Processing X X X X
• Double-Speed 9-Bit System w/ Enhanced
Algorithms for Video Noise Elimination X X X X
• TheaterFine™ DFP (Digital Fine Pitch) Screen
with Anti-Glare Coating X X X X
• CableClear™ DNR+ (by Input) X X X X
• Radiance™ High Output DC Lamp, Instant Restart
and High Brightness/Low Power Modes X X X X
• 4-Item Illuminated Remote with DVD Control X
• 6-Item A/V Illuminated Remote with DVD &
Audio Control X X X
• HD Window™ POP with Split Screen
and 12 MultiWindows X X X X
• Tri-Lingual Color Icon On-Screen Display X X X X
• Off/Sleep Timer X X X X
• Digital Cable Ready CableCARD™ Slot X X

KEY FEATURES
Screen Size 62" Diagonal Wide X X X X
Integrated HDTV - Toshiba Premium Package X X
ATSC/QAM Tuners (Terrestrial/Cable) X X
Dolby Digital® Audio Output (Coaxial) X X
CableCARD™ Slot (DCR - Digital Cable Ready ) X X
TV Guide™ On-Screen X X
One-Touch HD Recording Control ** X X
Live Pause / Rewind Capability ** X X
Two IEEE1394 Ports (DTVLink) X X
Digital Encoder X X
OmniViewer™ Memory Card Slot (SD, SM, MS, CF,& MM) X X
TALEN™ (Toshiba Advanced Light Engine) X X X X
Step-up HD2+ DLP™ Chip X X X X
Larger .8" Chip for Increased Brightness X X X X
Full 1280 x 720 Mirrors for Enhanced Sharpness X X X X
Filled-in Mirror Vias for Increased Contrast X X X X
Double-Speed 9-Bit System w/ Enhanced
Algorithms for Video Noise Elimination X X X X
Toshiba PixelPure™ X X X X
Radiance™ - High-Output DC Lamp X X X X
Instant Restart X X X X
High Brightness (Day) / Low Power (Night)
Lamp Modes X X X X
TheaterFine™ DFP Screen (Digital Fine Pitch) X X X X
Super-Fine Screen Pitch X X X X
Anti-Glare Coating X X X X
First Surface Mirror X X X X
CableClear™ DNR+ (By Input) X X X X
HD Dynamic Contrast X X X X
3DYC (4 MB, 10 Bit) Digital Comb Filter with
Vertical Contour Correction X X X X
Color Temperature Control (Warm/Medium/Cool) X X X X
Black Level Expander X X X X
Movie & Sports Modes X X X X
Auto Aspect Detection X X X X
TheaterWide® Modes (5 - Standard, Full,
TW1, TW2, TW3) X X X X
Cinema Mode (Film/Video) X X X X
MTS Stereo/SAP with dbx® X X X X
StableSound® X X X X
SRS® WOW (3D, Tru-Bass, Focus) X X X X
Virtual Dolby® (SRS Tru-Surround) X X
Separate Woofers & Tweeters X X X X
Audio Wattage (Total) 40W X X X X
Universal Remote Control 4-Item Illuminated
with DVD Control X
Universal Remote Control 6-Item A/V Illuminated
with DVD & Audio Control X X X
HD Window™ POP X X X X
Split Screen X X X X
MultiWindow (12) X X X X
TheaterNet™ Device Control System (1394 / IR) X X
Tri-Lingual Color Icon On-Screen Display X X X X
Off/Sleep Timer X X X X
Closed Captioning on Mute X X X X
V-Chip X X X X
Channel Return X X X X
Power Return X X X X
Noise Muting X X X X
Favorite Channel X X X X
Channel Lock X X X X
Channel Labeling X X X X
Video Lock X X X X
Direct Video Input Selection X X X X
On Timer X X X X
Video Labeling X X X X
Individual A/V Settings by Input Type X X X X
Discrete IR Codes X X X X
PIP Sound X X X X
2-Level Mute X X X X
SurfLock™ X X X X
Optional Toshiba Symbio A/V Hard Drive Recorder X X
Inputs:
RF Inputs 2 2 2 2
Rear A/V Input 2 2 2 2
Rear S-Video Input 2 2 2 2
ColorStream® HD Component Video Inputs
(Y, Pb, Pr) 2 2 2 2
Front Panel A/V Inputs A/V/S 2 2 2 2
HDMI™ Digital Input (s) 1 2 1 2
IEEE1394 (DTVLink) Digital Port 2 2
Outputs:
Video Output X X X X
Audio Outputs F + V X X X X
Dolby Digital® Audio Output (Coax) 1 1
TheaterLink™ IR (Out) 2 2 2
Thin Depth/Low Profile Tabletop Cabinet X X X X
Color Silver with Gray Bezel X X
Color Silver with Black Bezel, Acrylic Cover
& Aluminum Panel X X
W H D (in inches) 67-1/16 41-15/16 18-3/16
Weight 105 lbs

TERMINALS OTHER CONVENIENCE
** When Used With Optional Toshiba Symbio A/V Hard Drive Recorder