Originally posted by Bill G
Is everyone still having "bowing issues". I have a 62HMX94 with bowing of the picture accross the top and both sides. The bottom is perfect. Anyone found a cure yet?

Bill G

FWIW - Mine is not bowed at all...

Originally posted by Victor Nowik
4x3 Stretch mode is excellent on this model. Only sides are stretched
so the center region is left undistorted. Heads and most other objects
look normal. Wish my HD Tivo had as good a stretch mode.

There are also a variety of other stretch/zoom modes. Only other one I
use is usefull if watching letterbox on 4x3 signal format.

sounds good.

I wonder how they compare to my Cinema Series 57HX93? I guess I'll have to take a trip to the local ABC Warehouse to check it out.

Originally posted by 196thLIB
TV guide has finally loaded and appears to be working correctly, after about three weeks of playing with it. Channel line up and several days of listings loaded last night with about a three day gap after the first two days. This should fill in over the next twenty-four hours. I've experienced the same problems as many others with the info box options and had it dump everything and lock up so have decided not to mess with anything other than "small".

Have an older Tosh VCR connected with A/V cable as illustrated in the manual and G-linked. VCR output to TV Video 1, TV Video out to L1 input on VCR. When changing TV display to Video 1 and playing a pre-recorded tape everything is normal. When input to TV is on Video 1 and VCR is selected to L1 there is nothing but noise like an encrypted signal. L2 and channel selection on the VCR just shows a blue screen. Setting up a recording through the TV Guide On Screen works as slick as can be but when the recording starts, the TV locks to the channel the the VCR is recording? Any attempt to change the TV input results in a message box that tuner is locked.

I guess my question is how can you record one channel while watching another? Is this just the way it's designed when using CableCard? I feel like such a rookie!

Background: 52HMX94 with CableCard(SA) connected directly to ANT 1 which appears to be the only input cable card allows.

Generally, very happy with this set, HD is awesome, DVD is near HD quality even with an older DVD (non-progressive) player(S-video connected), especially with a quality DVD like the Star Wars trilogy.

Yeah, TVGuide is now working for me as well. They must have sent out another update. This is good since I have a Symbio on the way

Originally posted by Bill G
Is everyone still having "bowing issues". I have a 62HMX94 with bowing of the picture accross the top and both sides. The bottom is perfect. Anyone found a cure yet?

Bill G

We have just had the Toshiba 64HM94 for four days but so far have not had any bowing issues, nor have we seen any rainbows yet. My only issue is getting a clearer picture on SD channels.

Originally posted by Bill G
Is everyone still having "bowing issues". I have a 62HMX94 with bowing of the picture accross the top and both sides. The bottom is perfect. Anyone found a cure yet?

Bill G

I see almost no bowing at all on my set. You may want to have yours looked at while still under warranty. RPTVs are seldom perfect, but yours sounds a bit out of whack.

BTW, does anyone know if there are any user settings (Service Mode???) similar to conventional "analog" SD TVs that would allow you to make minor adjustments to overscan, etc? My old $100 PC screen allowed all sorts of adjustments (height, width, trapeziod, etc.) via the front panel buttons, yet the ability to do this on $3,000 TVs seems buried deep.

All that I have seen is a bunch of hexadecimal codes that can adjust certain things.. Not user friendly at all (which I guess was the point)

Originally posted by tboo
Yeah, TVGuide is now working for me as well. They must have sent out another update. This is good since I have a Symbio on the way

Are you using it cable or OTA? If cable, with or without cable card installed? Originally I got no data with direct cable only (no STB) and had to connect an antenna to get it to populate. (Still unsure if problem is TV or Comcast is stripping out the VBI data.)

The last post I saw from someone here said that CSR "Sharon" told him that the fix candidate didn't work and never was transmitted, but they did have a TV which exhibited the "problem"-- exactly what range of problems I'm not completey sure at this point.

I have a Comcast/Motorola cable card which is not decrypting digital channels (known HM94 issue, held onto card in the faint hope that this issue will be resolved in the near future), but does map the QAM-in-the-clear channels to Comcast's lineup (ch. 231 as opposed to 29-1, etc.) Having this card installed somehow interferes with the guide populating. I took it out on Saturday and then got the guide to load.

Originally posted by kdog044
Since I didn't receive a response on this I sent the question to Toshiba. here was my question and their response.

I am looking at purchasing the 52HMX94 and have a question related to audio. I know the set has an optical digital audio output and I was wondering if I connect a HDMI capable DVD Player to the TV if it will pass the digital audio signal (i.e. Dolby Digital or DTS) from the DVD player using the HDMI connection through the optical output of the TV. I am trying to limit the amount of digital inputs into my receiver. I know it passes audio from digital TV signals but am unclear whether it holds true for any HDMI capable input to the TV. Any help in this matter would be appreciated.

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thanks for writing!

We appreciate your interest in Toshiba.

Yes, that would be able to pass the digital signal.
Rick
Toshiba Customer Service

Now if only someone on this board could validate this for me.

;)

kdog,

I tested this last night. I sent the digital audio to the TV through HDMI and tried to output it through the optical port to my receiver and it did not work. I had no sound.

Just got the model (52hmx84) delivered 3 days ago . So far so good.

SD signal = surprisingly not bad at all even with stretch mode. I think it is all depended on which channel of broastcasting. (I am in Canada, so I have regular SD sattelite with Express Vu). I am using S-Video connection here.

DVD looks very good even with a lower end Toshiba DVD-player. I am using Component Video connection here.

HD signal = I don't have it hook up yet......still deciding on which company to go with. :)

Audio = Again surprise.........The sound from the Tosh speakers are really good. I think it's better than most of other DLP's brand.........!

Noise from the Fan = what noise.........? Don't hear anything..........:)

Rainbow Effect = Have not seen it yet............until then............;)

Design = I think it is a bit to big with the side speakers.......other than that , the overall design is OK !

With all said and done, I am still playing and trying to tweak the setting.

Any of you out there know which is the best or recomendation setting for this model in term of

Picture Sizes = ?
Picture Mode = ?
Brightness = ?
Constrast = ?
Color = ?
Tint = ?
Sharpness = ?

Or should I stay with Factory Setting ?

Any recommendation or feed back would be greatly appreciated.

I have a TV Guide set up question. When I get to the screen where it asks which input my cable box is plugged into it only gives me two choices..... ANT 1 or Video1. We don't use either of those inputs. We are routing everything through our Yamaha 2500 receiver and do not have a VCR set up. We have the video from the TV hooked up using the ColorStream HD-1 input which goes to the Yamaha receiver. The Motorola 6208 DVR is also hooked up to the receiver as is the DVD player. We are getting a very good picture and fantastic sound so we want to keep it hooked up this way, but does that mean we can't set up the TV Guide then?

Originally posted by whjeffs
I just did a comparison on mine and could not tell any difference in picture quality. What I have noticed though is changing this setting to OFF only changes the gray sidebars to black on the SD channels. One channel in particular on my system that broadcasts with gray sidebars also does so on their HD channel and this setting does not affect the sidebars on HD channels.


Jeff

WJZ right. I hate them gray side bars.

Okay i just purchased the 46hm84 and got hd installed through direct tv. The major issues im having is with the hdmi port. What boggles me is that hdmi, theoretically is suppose to look better then component, but when switch between the two, the component seems a lot crisper but colors seems to be a little off. Under hdmi, the colors are more vibrant but almost oversaturated. Been tweeking with the settings but can never get set properly. Another major issue i've seen under hdmi i get this horizonal wavey line in the middle of the screen whenever something fast pans through the screen. But under component the waviness is gone but theres a horizontal line in the middle of the screen. Not as noticable on component but still there.... then i plug in my xbox and tested out halo 2 and i don't see any of the lines as mention i do with the hd cable signal...

COMPONENTS IM USING....
tosh 46hm84
hd receiver (rca dtc 210)
monster cable hd400 (hdmi to dvi cable)
monster cable for components
monster cable for rca

Just wondering if you guys had any insight to my problem? All of my components are filled an want to get this hdmi running but so far it's been a hassle....

Originally posted by maddogFool
Are you using it cable or OTA? If cable, with or without cable card installed? Originally I got no data with direct cable only (no STB) and had to connect an antenna to get it to populate. (Still unsure if problem is TV or Comcast is stripping out the VBI data.)

The last post I saw from someone here said that CSR "Sharon" told him that the fix candidate didn't work and never was transmitted, but they did have a TV which exhibited the "problem"-- exactly what range of problems I'm not completey sure at this point.

I have a Comcast/Motorola cable card which is not decrypting digital channels (known HM94 issue, held onto card in the faint hope that this issue will be resolved in the near future), but does map the QAM-in-the-clear channels to Comcast's lineup (ch. 231 as opposed to 29-1, etc.) Having this card installed somehow interferes with the guide populating. I took it out on Saturday and then got the guide to load.

Right now Im using cable without a cable card(its on backorder)-this is through Time Warner

Originally posted by sharonf
I have a TV Guide set up question. When I get to the screen where it asks which input my cable box is plugged into it only gives me two choices..... ANT 1 or Video1. We don't use either of those inputs. We are routing everything through our Yamaha 2500 receiver and do not have a VCR set up. We have the video from the TV hooked up using the ColorStream HD-1 input which goes to the Yamaha receiver. The Motorola 6208 DVR is also hooked up to the receiver as is the DVD player. We are getting a very good picture and fantastic sound so we want to keep it hooked up this way, but does that mean we can't set up the TV Guide then?

I'm in the same situation and would also like to know the answer to this question.

Originally posted by Shaner1
kdog,

I tested this last night. I sent the digital audio to the TV through HDMI and tried to output it through the optical port to my receiver and it did not work. I had no sound. I assume you have it enabled in the audio menu for dolby digital (page 81 of the manual). Also the HDMI audio has to be set to Auto or digital (page 49). What source are you trying? Is it from a DVD player?

Originally posted by kdog044
I assume you have it enabled in the audio menu for dolby digital (page 81 of the manual). Also the HDMI audio has to be set to Auto or digital (page 49). What source are you trying? Is it from a DVD player?

It was a DVD player. I have it enabled because I get Dolby Digital from it with my over the air antenna.

I'll double check to make sure I have everything set right, I'll look at page 49 tonight.

Originally posted by Shaner1
I'll double check to make sure I have everything set right, I'll look at page 49 tonight. Thanks for checking on this. I'll be mad if Toshiba misinformed me. Hopefully it is just a configuration setting. I hate t ask but if it's not too much trouble could you place a call to support and see what they say? I understand if you don't want to go through all that.

I don't mind calling them on it. I've been on the phone with them a lot lately because of problems with the Toshiba SD-V592 (596) upconverting DVD/VCR player. Pretty much on a first name basis with them. lol

I'll try it again tonight, I should have time to do so anyway. Then if it still doesn't work I'll call them.

Originally posted by toshdlp46hm84
Okay i just purchased the 46hm84 and got hd installed through direct tv. The major issues im having is with the hdmi port. What boggles me is that hdmi, theoretically is suppose to look better then component, but when switch between the two, the component seems a lot crisper but colors seems to be a little off. Under hdmi, the colors are more vibrant but almost oversaturated. Been tweeking with the settings but can never get set properly. Another major issue i've seen under hdmi i get this horizonal wavey line in the middle of the screen whenever something fast pans through the screen. But under component the waviness is gone but theres a horizontal line in the middle of the screen. Not as noticable on component but still there.... then i plug in my xbox and tested out halo 2 and i don't see any of the lines as mention i do with the hd cable signal...

toshdlp46hm84,

I have the 62HM84 with the same issues you have. The first issue, HDMI, I believe is a Toshiba issue. I've had HH Gregg out twice and the second time they replaced the HDMI module which did nothing. My HDMI picture is darker and mor saturated. If you bring up the menu on your direct tv receiver you'll likely see ghosting off of the menu ( on my TV for each letter there is a mirror image of it on the right and left side). I also have ghosting on component. Not always noticable but in xbox games where you have text in medium colors (not black areas) you see ghosting to the right of the text. The second issue of the line is probably not the TV. I have Direct TV with the RCA HD receiver and I called direct tv and there is a known issue with the line in the middle. Look close enough and you'll see it on component too. It's easiest to see when a camera pans up and down. The direct TV support told me that a firmware update will probably need done. The told me to wait about a month and call to find out progress on this. I'll do that fairly soon. I'll post when I hear from the HH Gregg guy. It's been 2 weeks since his last visit and I called him 2 or 3 days ago and I still haven't got a call back.

I've noticed the ghosting on xbox games/images as well. I can also see faint ghosting in the beginning of "Gladiator" where there is the text providing the background for the first battle.

Originally posted by Boogie7910
I'm in the same situation and would also like to know the answer to this question.

I asked the question of Toshiba and just heard back forom them. Their answer is that the TV guide does only work through those two inputs (Ant 1 or Video 1) So appently if you hook up your TV any other way TV Guide will not work. Right now I am using a DVR cable box because my cable company doesn't have the cable cards yet, so I can get a TV Guide that way. When I get the cable card though I will be out of luck in less I change the hook ups for my system, which I don't want to do.

I just bought a Toshiba 52HM94 from OneCall.com. I am using the built-in tuner to receive OTA HD programs. The PQ is great, but the tuner is very slow, it takes about 6-7 seconds to switch from one channel to another. Is this normal? or should I contact Toshiba customer service?

Originally posted by la9908
I just bought a Toshiba 52HM94 from OneCall.com. I am using the built-in tuner to receive OTA HD programs. The PQ is great, but the tuner is very slow, it takes about 6-7 seconds to switch from one channel to another. Is this normal? or should I contact Toshiba customer service?

This appears to be normal. I just got my Toshiba 62Hm94 a few days ago and have noticed the same thing with my set and I am using a Motorola 6208 DVR. From talking to others I gather that this is normal behavior...but very annoying.

Originally posted by sharonf
This appears to be normal. I just got my Toshiba 62Hm94 a few days ago and have noticed the same thing with my set and I am using a Motorola 6208 DVR. From talking to others I gather that this is normal behavior...but very annoying. Changing channels is slow using the 6208 because of the disk buffering, but it doesn't take 6-7 seconds. Are you using the internal OTA tuner too? Your post is confusing given the original question.

la9908,
6-7 seconds for OTA tuning is slow, but it could just be a "feature" of the tuner in the TV. Do you have any indication of signal strength?

larry

Signal strength is around 70%- 80% for all the stations. I am using a Radio Shack outdoor antenna(I think is X90R) in my attic.

I find that the digital channels take a long time. Analog isn't bad but the digital channels do take a few seconds. It doesn't bother me though, just thought I'd add input on what my 52HMX94 does.

Originally posted by DanofNJ
Has anyone been using the Monster Brand cleaner on their screens? I just got my 52HMX92 and will need to clean at some point in the future.

Dan

I also have that excellent TV/Monitor screen cleaner, but don't know if it's OK for the Toshiba poly-screen. I maybe e-mailing Toshiba on that one, because I have the 52HM84 and there is nothing regarding screen care on the manual.

I'll post whatever they say.

Their support line told me to use a microfiber cloth and to make it slightly damp if need be.

I didn't ask about the Monster stuff.

I do remember asking them about any kind of cleaner that's safe but for the life of me I can't remember what they said. The microfiber cloth has worked just fine so far.

Originally posted by foreverblueleafs
With all said and done, I am still playing and trying to tweak the setting.

Any of you out there know which is the best or recomendation setting for this model in term of

Picture Sizes = ?
Picture Mode = ?
Brightness = ?
Constrast = ?
Color = ?
Tint = ?
Sharpness = ?

Or should I stay with Factory Setting ?

Any recommendation or feed back would be greatly appreciated.

Hi:

Like you, I've been using my unit for a few days (10 to be exact) and I'm extremely happy...and that's without any HD source. I've tested lots of material comparing the different widescreen sizes vs. 4:3 stretch. Also did my calibrations with the AVIA and Sound & Vision DVDs and, although from the box looks nice, the tweaking was needed.

A universal recomendation is to set temperature to medium, which is like the standard or natural setting for color balance.

One impressive setting was for color and tint, when using the AVIA pattern, the flashing squares do get invisible...I mean, not completely, but that's near perfect man. This were my results for the 52HM84:

Contrast = 30
Brightness = 66
Color = 60 (actually it was 64, but to be safe on red push I lowered it)
Tint = R16
Sharpness = 31
DNR = ON for cable/VCR (it works), OFF for DVD.
Cinema Mode = FILM, although I haven't notice a difference with VIDEO.

Another cool thing is that the Contrast setting doesn't "bloom", it just gets very white. So, I went from a grey to just white. Brightness and Color seem high, but that's what it gives. It'll probably be different in a month or so.

Image was almost perfectly centered and overscan seems below 5%.

I noticed the settings move in close steps, it's like very fine tuning; which makes for a more precise calibration. In case you're wondering, I use the Sound & Vision DVD for checking red push; it has a scene with both hosts using very red sweaters and yellow ties, which is easier to check than AVIAs percent squares (It also has DTS audio testing, which AVIA doesn't have).

Regarding picture sizes; many people here like to use Natural for almost everything, but my philosophy on that is the same for the home theater audio system. You spent like $1500+ on the audio system and some people use it only for DVDs or movies. No way man, every well produced program uses at least Dolby Surround, even the news; so I'm using my system all the time.

The same with this widescreen TV; I've been watching a square small screen for my whole life (I'm 37) and now I spent $2700 on a nice 52" HDTV, damn if I don't use the whole screen...or at least, most of it. Also I hate those gray bars, just like everyone. So, this is what I've found (I used Star Wars Episode I, The Matrix, Alice In Wonderland, AKIRA, and DUNE Mini Series DVDs for testing):

For 4:3 cable/VCR material the Theaterwide 1 works nice, it only stretches like the last 1/5 of the sides. It's like a progressive stretch, very easy to get used to and the screen's filled.

For any widescreen material, you'll see the black bars on Theaterwide 1; but even if you don't, change the size to FULL. Here any wide ratio below 2:1 (1.77, etc) will fill the whole screen with almost no distortion.

If you see the bars in FULL then it's a 2.__:1 material, this is better seen in Theaterwide 3. Sides are unaffected and the height is modified to almost filling the screen; you'll see very fine bars that can be easily ignored. Remember that a 16:9 screen has a ratio of 1.78:1, so anything bigger will surpass the screen's height; the bars are unavoidable to see the complete image.

For 4:3 DVD material, my JVC progressive player does a nice trick when setting it for a fixed 16:9 monitor. It shows a bigger than standard image and add's black bars to the sides, which are thinner than the gray bars! The Toshiba goes to FULL and it looks great. Obviously, this is the lesser material, but I have a 5 year old daughter and when you put the Alice In Wonderland DVD, this is the way to see it. Otherwise, to fill the screen, I can set that off and use Theaterwide 1.

A last thing that could help others here:

I have digital cable, but as you know, not all the channels are digital. Some of the analog channels have low resolutions and noise that can look bad on this very sensitive HDTV, particularly small stations. Add to this that my cable wires are divide in 2 TVs, 3 VCRs, and 1 cable box. It's a lot of wire that brings losses to the signal; in my case, channels 2 to 8 looked grainy and with interference lines.

For before-digital I toyed with some Radio Shack amplifiers to improve the signal and I remembered that one of them was "digital" capable. It's a 15dB, 1000MHz, metal encased unit with a $60 ticket 2 years ago. I connected this to my principal line and voila!, instantly cleaned channels. I mean, it's not like digital HBO, but it's a lot better.

So for not too good SD signals, try a good quality booster and see if the image improves.

My 52HM84 is set for Quick Restart and so I've seen that it stays very dimly lit after turning OFF for about 10 or 20 seconds.

The funny thing is that during this time the green light blinks (the red stays off), is this normal?

Anybody notice that the onscreen menus(except for TVGuide) vary with the input's display resolution. the menus via sd cable are low res & blurry, but if I switch to a high res imput(such as 1080i) then the menus are razor sharp & colorful.

Hi, I've been reading this massive thread, almost halfway through.

I do have a quick question that might have been covered and I hadn't reached yet, I appologize in advance if this is the case but I have to act fast, I think.

The Toshiba 52HM84 is listed in Canada with an msrp that exceeds $4K. I see this at a local tv shop for $3.2K. They sell other LCD projo's much cheaper, TVs I don't think are nearly as good, cheaper. My question is, is there something wrong with this set? Was there a sudden drop off in its popularity in recent weeks? Why the devalue? Or is it just a natural progression.

I've read reviews, this looks like a nice product and I am planning on picking one up this weekend.

Originally posted by sharonf
I asked the question of Toshiba and just heard back forom them. Their answer is that the TV guide does only work through those two inputs (Ant 1 or Video 1) So appently if you hook up your TV any other way TV Guide will not work. Right now I am using a DVR cable box because my cable company doesn't have the cable cards yet, so I can get a TV Guide that way. When I get the cable card though I will be out of luck in less I change the hook ups for my system, which I don't want to do.

Thanks for getting back to me.

Well that really sucks!!

Is there any way to save individual setting for different channels? For Instance I have to calibrate the settings to make some of the SD channels look better and then change them back again when I'm watching a HD channel. I thought maybe I could change and save settings under Picture Modes and then just click on the mode that I want depending what channels I'm watching, but whenever I change settings under other modes such as Standard it reverts back to Preference. Apparently you can't change and save setting under the other modes?

Hi - so I ordered the 52HM84 and my fiance was very surprised and very happy... we hooked it up immediately (thanks for the advice!) and we were blown away by the sheer size and picture quality.

However, after a few minutes I noticed that near the middle of the screen there is a small gray smudge (like a fingerprint after you've been reading the newspaper). In fact at first I thought it was a fingerprint and I tried to wipe it away, but it's clearly on the inside of the screen.

It doesn't seem to be due to burnt out pixels or whatever because it shows other colors just fine - I only notice it when it's white or another light shade. It's pretty light, so I don't notice it unless I look for it, but then it's definitely there.

Has anyone encountered this? Should I start freaking out and return the TV for a new one? On the one hand, I feel like it's not really noticeable so I should just live with it.... it was such a pain to get the TV up to our third floor and I can't imagine taking it back downstairs and bringing up a new one. But on the other hand it was a lot of money! I feel like I should have a brand-new product in perfect condition.

Thanks for your thoughts and advice....

- Michelle.

If there's a smudge on the inside of mine and I can't get at it I'll definitely take it back. You paid for it, it should be "perfect" as it can be.

Originally posted by mhong33
I noticed that near the middle of the screen there is a small gray smudge (like a fingerprint after you've been reading the newspaper). In fact at first I thought it was a fingerprint and I tried to wipe it away, but it's clearly on the inside of the screen.
- Michelle.

Michelle,

"Smudges" on these DLP RPTVs are almost always caused by lint/dust/plastic on one of the mirrors or on the light engine lens. The Mits threads have quite a few posts about smudges and spots. Before sending it back, and while still within the return period, I would try a service call. It's a pretty simple fix for a service tech. You may want to give it a few more days to see if anything else is wrong that would require an exchange.

Ken

Originally posted by kdog044
Thanks for checking on this. I'll be mad if Toshiba misinformed me. Hopefully it is just a configuration setting. I hate t ask but if it's not too much trouble could you place a call to support and see what they say? I understand if you don't want to go through all that.

kdog,

The audio does get passed to the receiver. I had to make a change with my DVD player to get it to do so that I wasn't aware of. Anyway the TV does pass it through the optical output.

Originally posted by Julio Bro!
My 52HM84 is set for Quick Restart and so I've seen that it stays very dimly lit after turning OFF for about 10 or 20 seconds.

The funny thing is that during this time the green light blinks (the red stays off), is this normal?


Yeah ! I got the same thing like your set as well. I hope this is Normal.......!

Also, I have heard people here talking about "ghosting".
What is it anyway ?............Don't laugh at me...........I am all new to this.........:) and that is why I came to this Forum.......:)

Originally posted by sharonf
Is there any way to save individual setting for different channels? For Instance I have to calibrate the settings to make some of the SD channels look better and then change them back again when I'm watching a HD channel. I thought maybe I could change and save settings under Picture Modes and then just click on the mode that I want depending what channels I'm watching, but whenever I change settings under other modes such as Standard it reverts back to Preference. Apparently you can't change and save setting under the other modes?

Nope. You can save individual setting by INPUT, (set up your DVD differently from your Cable/satellite box, for example) but not by particular channels. This would have been nice because a few of my OTA channels seem all over the place (mostly on TINT): Some are too green while others too red.

Originally posted by Shaner1
Their support line told me to use a microfiber cloth and to make it slightly damp if need be.

I didn't ask about the Monster stuff.

I do remember asking them about any kind of cleaner that's safe but for the life of me I can't remember what they said. The microfiber cloth has worked just fine so far.

The Monster cleaning kit includes a microfiber cloth and the spray which contains de-ionized water and "proprietary polymers" whatever that consists of, but it doesn't contain ammonia or alcohol. I plan to use this on mine instead of the Anti-Static cleaning cloths I posted about earlier in this thread since they did contain some alcohol.


Jeff

Has anyone ever figured out how to change the gray bars to black? I believe that the official Toshiba term is "Panel Brightness". This is the same ugly gray we're forced to put up with when using POP.

I know how to get into the Service Menu, but I have no clue as to which parameter is Panel Brightness. All parameters are in code. Does anyone have a list of menu codes for the HMX 84 series? All codes and values from previous Tosh models are invalid.

Thanks for the continued information on cleaning the screen. Strange that Toshiba didn't include any instructions in this vital and inevitable area.

Dan

Originally posted by sharonf
Is there any way to save individual setting for different channels? For Instance I have to calibrate the settings to make some of the SD channels look better and then change them back again when I'm watching a HD channel. I thought maybe I could change and save settings under Picture Modes and then just click on the mode that I want depending what channels I'm watching, but whenever I change settings under other modes such as Standard it reverts back to Preference. Apparently you can't change and save setting under the other modes?

Hello sharonf: These TVs have several inputs for video and audio, my 52HM84 has 2 SVideo, 2 Component, and 1 HDMI. If you can see HD channels its because you have a component, HDMI, or both outputs available from your box; it should also have an SVideo output. You should also have a DVD player with HDMI and/or Component connection.

What I would do to cover your need is use 2 of the inputs for the box, either HDMI + SVideo, HDMI + Component, or SVideo + Component; this will depend on what is available from your box and what you're using for the DVD player.

As every video input of the Toshiba can be independently set, with these connections you can see your HD channel with a separate Picture setting than SD.

Hope this helps.

Originally posted by Shaner1
kdog,

The audio does get passed to the receiver. I had to make a change with my DVD player to get it to do so that I wasn't aware of. Anyway the TV does pass it through the optical output. Thanks, I appreciate you taking the time to check on this for me. I know you have some issues with your player and was wondering if you could still return it or not. I am looking to add an HDMI upconverting player when I get the TV and was looking at possibly the Panny S97 or the Sony 975. Did you check out other players before purchasing the Toshiba? If so, can you provide some feedback on the units you looked at?

Originally posted by kdog044
Thanks, I appreciate you taking the time to check on this for me. I know you have some issues with your player and was wondering if you could still return it or not. I am looking to add an HDMI upconverting player when I get the TV and was looking at possibly the Panny S97 or the Sony 975. Did you check out other players before purchasing the Toshiba? If so, can you provide some feedback on the units you looked at?

No problem, I like fooling around with this stuff.

We have a thread going on this player in the DVD players section. I'm not going to return it because Toshiba is looking into the problem. Plus I can live with running it through Component until the HD-DVD players come out.

I didn't try any other players, when I found one that had a vcr in it too I was sold. It saves space on my stand, plus my kids have a ton of VCR tapes that they still watch so I have to keep a vcr around.

Anybody have anything good or bad to say about the Symbio ??? I can't seem to find any reviews on this anywhere.

Originally posted by whjeffs
The Monster cleaning kit includes a microfiber cloth and the spray which contains de-ionized water and "proprietary polymers" whatever that consists of, but it doesn't contain ammonia or alcohol. I plan to use this on mine instead of the Anti-Static cleaning cloths I posted about earlier in this thread since they did contain some alcohol.


Jeff

Please inform us about how the Monster cleaner does.

Originally posted by foreverblueleafs
Yeah ! I got the same thing like your set as well. I hope this is Normal.......!

Also, I have heard people here talking about "ghosting".
What is it anyway ?............Don't laugh at me...........I am all new to this.........:) and that is why I came to this Forum.......:)

I just sent an e-mail to Toshiba asking about the blinking and the Monster screen cleaner, let's see what they say.

Regarding "ghosting", I haven't see it. You can see like a double image if you look at the screen from up and close, but that's not the issue.

If you search back in this thread you'll find a lot about that "ghosting", I think it could be a problem of signal service or malfunctioning units. A cheap way to check could be trying a signal attenuator to see if the image improves...but it's a long shot.

Originally posted by Julio Bro!


What I would do to cover your need is use 2 of the inputs for the box, either HDMI + SVideo, HDMI + Component, or SVideo + Component; this will depend on what is available from your box and what you're using for the DVD player.

As every video input of the Toshiba can be independently set, with these connections you can see your HD channel with a separate Picture setting than SD.

Hope this helps. [/B]

Hi Julio,

Thanks for the reply. We have everything routed through our new Yamaha receiver. We are using component (Colorstream) connections between the TV, Cable Box and receiver. The resulting picture is very good...especially in HD which is superb, so I hate to change the connection (and I don't think my husband would let me:D ) I wonder if it would work to use the existing connections and add another coax cable to go from the cable box to the TV?

Sharon

Originally posted by sharonf
Hi Julio,

Thanks for the reply. We have everything routed through our new Yamaha receiver. We are using component (Colorstream) connections between the TV, Cable Box and receiver. The resulting picture is very good...especially in HD which is superb, so I hate to change the connection (and I don't think my husband would let me:D ) I wonder if it would work to use the existing connections and add another coax cable to go from the cable box to the TV?

Sharon

Coax or SVideo won't give you HD, and SVideo is better than Coax. Your Yamaha receiver should have many inputs, including component (my Yamaha has 2 in/1 out) you can try what I explained in combo with the TV. Remember that your setting for an HD video signal only, so it can be routed to an independent input in the TV or the receiver.

sorry if this has been asked before but I was wondering what types of long term problems could arise with DLP sets? I haven't really heard much about long term problems like I have with say a CRT RPTV like my Toshiba 57HX93. do you still have alignment issues with DLP sets? I want to get the 62HMX94 but would like to know what I am getting into with it. I have read that these sets don't have a problem with burn-in. is that really true? my Toshiba is beginning to suffer minor burn-in from my DTIVO. so the lack of burn-in symptoms is appealing.

are there any threads/sites that would be recommended reading on DLP sets?

No burn in on DLP sets.

I don't know about any long term issues, I'm sure they will have them just like anything else.

Originally posted by sharonf
I asked the question of Toshiba and just heard back forom them. Their answer is that the TV guide does only work through those two inputs (Ant 1 or Video 1) So appently if you hook up your TV any other way TV Guide will not work. Right now I am using a DVR cable box because my cable company doesn't have the cable cards yet, so I can get a TV Guide that way. When I get the cable card though I will be out of luck in less I change the hook ups for my system, which I don't want to do.

I'm not sure I believe Toshiba's answer about this, because of my own experience.

As I explained in an earlier post, my guide would not populate with only a direct Comcast cable connection to ANT1. After almost two weeks, I connected an antenna source to ANT2 and the guide then populated. At some point later, I had an interruption to the antenna signal path, and the guide went away. So I am quite sure I was receiving it through ANT2.

Now VIDEO1/2 is a different thing altogether. For a composite or component baseband signal (which is what those connectors receive) I doubt any embedded information (VBI) would be retained. And you'd have to leave the cable box turned on and tuned to a channel which contains the info. Unless I'm missing something here.

Originally posted by chrishicks
sorry if this has been asked before but I was wondering what types of long term problems could arise with DLP sets? I haven't really heard much about long term problems like I have with say a CRT RPTV like my Toshiba 57HX93. do you still have alignment issues with DLP sets? I want to get the 62HMX94 but would like to know what I am getting into with it. I have read that these sets don't have a problem with burn-in. is that really true? my Toshiba is beginning to suffer minor burn-in from my DTIVO. so the lack of burn-in symptoms is appealing.

are there any threads/sites that would be recommended reading on DLP sets?

Burn-in simply cannot happen. How does one burn a mirror???? Alignment is also a non-issue because there is none. All colors come from a single chip. These are the ploses of DLP. The things to wear out are the projection bulb, which it will after many thousand hours (just like any other lamp, you replace it and you're back up, good as new...for $200 or so) and the color wheel, which is on a small motor and just spins & spins. This is what gives you the Red, Blue, Green, etc.

I had a guy from the technical research department of Toshiba call me back today about the problems I have been having getting the TV Guide onscreen to work. He said that all of the Toshiba 94 series TVs potentially have this problem and that it's related to the way TV Guide is sending out the signal that the TV cannot recognize it properly. He said TV Guide is aware of the problem and have been working on correcting it. I asked when this would happen and he said hopefully in about 2 weeks. He said nothing different needs to be done with the TV. Once they fix the problem on their end the listings will start showing up.

I'll have to wait and see. The TV Guide On Screen listings work fine on my Panasonic DMR-E85H DVD recorder so the signal is there but the problem with it on the TV may be a blame game between Toshiba and TV Guide.


Jeff

Sorry if this was already asked, but I did not see the answer. I just got my 52HMX94 on Wednesday and everything is great. In the package is a blue sheet of paper with an "Important Message" that said do not hook up a computer to the HDMI port.

My question is does anybody know why? Can you do actual, physical damage to the TV by doing so?

Thanks!

-tom

Originally posted by whjeffs
I had a guy from the technical research department of Toshiba call me back today about the problems I have been having getting the TV Guide onscreen to work. He said that all of the Toshiba 94 series TVs potentially have this problem and that it's related to the way TV Guide is sending out the signal that the TV cannot recognize it properly. He said TV Guide is aware of the problem and have been working on correcting it. I asked when this would happen and he said hopefully in about 2 weeks. He said nothing different needs to be done with the TV. Once they fix the problem on their end the listings will start showing up.

I'll have to wait and see. The TV Guide On Screen listings work fine on my Panasonic DMR-E85H DVD recorder so the signal is there but the problem with it on the TV may be a blame game between Toshiba and TV Guide.


Jeff


I hope they get this fixed. I see I lost all of my listings again

This was Toshiba's answer to my blinking light and Monster cleaning kit questions:

Dear Julio,

Thanks for writing!

To clean the screen on your TV we recommend using a soft dry lint free cloth.

If there is something you cannot easily remove, we recommend you have an authorized service center come out and assist you.

Please click on the link below to locate a center near you.

www.tacp.com/service/servcntr.nsf/$$Search?OpenForm

That would be the normal operation for that unit.

Rick

Toshiba Customer Service
***********************

That's it. I guess I'll be using just the Monster cloth until something gets extremely dirty. Then I'll go with the fluid.

Regarding the blinking green light, I'm relaxed now.

Originally posted by Sway19
Sorry if this was already asked, but I did not see the answer. I just got my 52HMX94 on Wednesday and everything is great. In the package is a blue sheet of paper with an "Important Message" that said do not hook up a computer to the HDMI port.

My question is does anybody know why? Can you do actual, physical damage to the TV by doing so?

Thanks!

-tom
Tom,

Manufacturers who put such warnings in the user's literature know that their product will disappoint some when used in that particular manner, and they're just trying to avoid having buyers return their sets because they're "not working properly". Check all the postings on this thread from those who've gone ahead and connected their TVs to their computers....99% have experienced some sort of difficulty or are not entirely happy with the results. However, no one, as far as I can tell, has reported that their TV was damaged in any way by being connected to a computer :)

---Rudy

Rudy,

That was what I was thinking. Thanks for the reply!

Tom

I've been lurking this thread for months as I was considering what technology of rear projection was best and then what brand to choose. I finally bought a Toshiba 62HMX94 because I decided that DLP was the best technology and Toshiba had the best picture. I was initially very happy with my choice - the blacks were better than LCD, the picture was great and I loved the look of the 62HMX94 on it's matching stand.
Sadly, after three weeks I returned the Toshiba because the rainbows changed my mind. I realize that not everyone sees the rainbows but I am not one of those lucky ones. I watch a lot of old black-and-white "film noir" DVDs and the rainbows made these unviewable. The excellent darks of DLP combined with the bright whites it also offers were too much to bear. Rainbows are most apparent when a white object moves across a dark background - a band of red, blue and green will appear to follow the white image across the screen (due to the color wheel spinning). This flaw might not be too distracting with a color image but with a black-and-white image the colors are very noticeable because there should be no color evident anywhere on the screen.
I decided that I would have to change to LCD rear projection and I chose a Sony KDF 60WF655 as the replacement. I decided to provide my personal observations for anyone else who might still be undecided as a service to the group, since I have benefited so much from the members' contributions and have given nothing in return.
First, don't expect LCD to rival DLP in blacks. The Sony can only offer dark bluish black instead of the neutral dark-dark gray black that Toshiba offers when attempting to reproduce black.
Second, I recommend that you preview a black-and-white DVD (preferably a film noir movie because they were filmed at night and in dark situations so they offer the best opportunity to see if you are susceptible to rainbows.
Third, check out the flesh tones on color images. I was satisfied with the Toshiba but I was never able to able to completely get rid of some greenishness in the shadow areas of faces. Only after getting the Sony did I realize that it was superior in providing natural fleshtones - I didn't even have to tweak it first.
Fourth, I decided to just accept the gray sidebars on the Toshiba even though I wished they weren't there. With the Sony I don't have to deal with this issue because it provides black sidebars (or at least as close to black as it is able to).
I also find that the Sony interface is a bit more user friendly but that might just be one person's opinion.
So, if you don't see rainbows I'd recommend the Toshiba (I once fell in love with it) but if you do, just realize that once you start seeing them they don't go away. You tend to focus on them and they just become more noticeable with time. I am able to enjoy the LCD image more, even without the deep blacks, because I no longer have to ignore the problems I had with the DLP rainbows. Now I can just enjoy the program content without having to judge how well it is reproduced on the screen - and I no longer have to spend hours looking through the threads of this forum on a 19 inch monitor instead of shutting down my computer and basking in the glow of a 60 inch HDTV in my recliner (62 inch if you choose a Toshiba). I hope this information helps you make your choice more quickly so you will be able to join me soon in enjoying the spectacular picture of whichever HDTV you decide to buy.

Is it just me or can other people see the screen itself in really bright scenes? It looks really sparkly and very distracting.

Originally posted by Boogie7910
Is it just me or can other people see the screen itself in really bright scenes? It looks really sparkly and very distracting.
It's not just you. The Toshiba (all DLPs?) seems to have problems with bright, hazy surfaces. Check out Master and Commander for a perfect example of the good and bad of this TV: when the ship is going through fog, there is a TON of noise on the screen and it's just terribly distracting. However, closeups, action sequences, dark scenes are all equally beautiful and have a film-like quality.

For what it's worth, I have yet to see any movie with cloud/fog scenes in it display nicely on this tv, regardless if it's DVD, HDTV, digital, or analog. I believe it's kinda like horizontal stripes (or is it vertical?) on CRTs...

--T.

Hello All,

Sorry about the following newbie question, but I was wondering if anyone knew the following: I'm looking to put together a HTPC and one of the components I'm looking at is the MyHD 120 card. Does this card simply act as a PVR replacement, or does it replace the HD Box that I get from my local cable company? (I'm wondering if I still have to get an HD Cable or if the MyHD Card will serve the same function?)

Thanks in advance,
MT

Sorry, in the last part of my message, I meant, "I'm wondering if I still have to get an HD Cable BOX or if the MyHD Card can perform the same functions as the HD Box?"

I'll repost this from page 52, since many people seem to still be wondering about hooking up computers to there PC's:

OK, I hope this proves that this TV can be used with HTPC quite well....at least with the $30 DVI->Component dongle. HDMI is close but is hard to work with custom Resolutions(to eliminate overscan) and has alot of Ghosting. The dongle solves everything.

These are Large Hi Res photos. Please *Zoom in* to see the true detail of the TV screen and keep in mind that the real thing looks even better:

Here are a few "clear text" examples:
https://home.comcast.net/~wblack3/files/yahoo2.jpg
https://home.comcast.net/~wblack3/files/Clear_Text_.jpg.JPG

Here are a shot at 1080! (actually reduced to 1776X1000i to eliminate overscan)
https://home.comcast.net/~wblack3/1776x1000i_pic.JPG

Here are examples of the HDMI vs component "Ghosting"
https://home.comcast.net/~wblack3/files/Ghosting_and_overscan__with_HDMI_2.JPG
https://home.comcast.net/~wblack3/files/No_Ghost_with_DVI_to_Component_2.JPG

Some HalfLife 2 pics:
https://home.comcast.net/~wblack3/files/Halflife_2_1.JPG
https://home.comcast.net/~wblack3/files/HalfLife_2_2.JPG
https://home.comcast.net/~wblack3/files/HalfLife_2_3.JPG

I would love to get HDMI working through the PC, but I'm not going to return my TV if I can't!!!

NathanE,
I agree that simple TV tweaks have a suprising affect on hiding the ghosting when using HDMI(good find). However, The real problem I have with HDMI is trying to reduce overscan. The picture was not stable at all when tweaking in PowerStrip. Let me know if you make any more progress on it.

I keep hearing that nearly ALL TV's have problems with PC -> HDMI

Thanks
Bill
52hmx84, ATI9800pro with ATI DVI>Component dongle

Update:
Hmm I just updated my ATI drivers and noticed a premade resolution 1776X1000i (reduced version of 1080i). I tried it and it works perfect on my 52hmx84. Very little overscan. I just posted the screen shot above.

Not sure if it's the new Catalyst drivers or just that I didn't look hard enough but I can use all of the resoultions in the Catalyst control panel just fine.

I also notice that on some resolutions you can use your TV's "Picture size" settings in combination with these Catalyst resolutions to get some great HTPC screen setups. And on other resolutions you can't! Not sure why I never noticed this before. And on top of it all, I don't have to use Powerstrip at all!!!

NOTE: to use these Interlaced resolutions I had to enable it in "Catalyst control center\Component video properties\Formats" I put a check by "Use custom settings" and then checked all custom settings resolutions and 16X9.

I have already posted this In a thread of its own but sadly didn't get much of a reply....So I'm posting my questions In here In hopes some of you nice owners could help a prospective buyer with some questions about the 52HM94 before I order one. :)

Question 1 I keep hearing about something called a game mode on some Toshiba DLP TVs but can't find no mention of this at there website...Can anyone tell me does this TV have that feature and what other DLPs they make share this feature? Ok thanks to some checkin of my own I've found that the 52HMX94,62HMX94 have the feature while the 46HM84,52HM84,62HM84,52HMX84,62HMX84 don't have the feature. but have found no mention of the 46HM94,52HM94,62HM94 tvs.


Question 2 Can anyone direct me to a online copy of the owners manual? I checked Crutchfield but they only have the 84 model and the HMX model manuals up.

And question 3 (Its a big one ) Does anyone know where I can find out
If my area is supported by TV Guide On-Screen feature? I checked Toshiba website with no luck and tried what I think is the official website of the TV Guide On-Screen program. I live In Bismarck, ND if anyone can find out or let me know how to my self It would be greatly appreciated.

The reason question 3 is so important is I want to order the Symbio 160HD4 along with the TV but the symbio is no good if the TV Guide On-Screen don't work(That's what it says in the manual)

Thanks guys for all the help.

Thumbs up to someone else's suggestion of buying a cable signal amplifier. Based on that recommendation, I bought one from Radio Shack and set it up this morning. It has made an amazing improvement on the quality of the analog reception (to the point that it rivals my old RP-CRT). Let's see if it holds up or if I'm just getting lucky with the cable reception today--I'll post a follow-up if I see a significant degradation over the week.

Note that I've opted to bypass my cable box for analog channels so that the PVR doesn't add any encoding noise, though even through the PVR those channels look better than before.

So far it's the best 30 bucks I've spent on this set (and I'm sure you can save a couple more bucks buying online).

--T.

tristanc,

That is very interesting to me. What db amplifier did you get??? 10 or 25, and what make??

RCA, GE, etc. I am thinking of doing the same. Could you give some details how you set it up?

Thanks,

Dan

i bought a motorola signal booster, cause im running 50 ft of rg6 to my motorola stb and my sd looks like night and day compared to what it used to. eliminated a lot of snow and vertical banding. it was 85 bucks and im gonna return it in 29 days but if you have the $$ definitely give the motorola a try, they sell it at Circuit city and comp usa.

Originally posted by DanofNJ
tristanc,

That is very interesting to me. What db amplifier did you get??? 10 or 25, and what make??

RCA, GE, etc. I am thinking of doing the same. Could you give some details how you set it up?

Thanks,

Dan
Dan,

I did absolutely zero research on this, so there may be better options (such as the Motorola posted above). However, I just went down to Radio Shack and said I wanted a signal amplifier for my cable. The one they gave me was the Radio Shack branded one, model #15-2505 which does a 10 db gain (Radio Shack link (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=15-2505) ). It's 30 bucks, so not a big investment. I have no clue if a more powerful one actually helps. I did see one at Walmart as well, roughly the same price...

--T.

I'm going to be buying a 46HM94 or a 52HM94 (I want the Game Mode on the '94 series). I currently use DirecTV but I have two problems. First, I don't want to spring for a $300+ HD set-up which can't even receive local channels in HD, and second, I don't like the idea of using an OTA antenna because I think I'm too far away from the transmitters to get a signal. I live about 60-70 miles north of NYC. I asked a fellow at a local Radio Shack about antennas for HD reception, and his exact quote was, "Don't waste your money. We're too far away for you to get a good signal." So it looks like I'm stuck with Cable as my only option.

But before I part ways with DirecTV (and my beloved DirecTIVO!), is there a reliable resource available (other than the RS guy) that can tell me if OTA HD reception is an option for me? I've tried antennaweb, but wasn't satisfied with the "info" they provided.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Originally posted by sayanythingrock
i bought a motorola signal booster, cause im running 50 ft of rg6 to my motorola stb and my sd looks like night and day compared to what it used to. eliminated a lot of snow and vertical banding. it was 85 bucks and im gonna return it in 29 days but if you have the $$ definitely give the motorola a try, they sell it at Circuit city and comp usa.

Amazon.com has the Motorola Signal Booster for $39.99. I just ordered one.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BasicCable
[

Question 1 I keep hearing about something called a game mode on some Toshiba DLP TVs but can't find no mention of this at there website...

I have the Toshiba 62HM94 and it has the Game Mode.


Question 2 Can anyone direct me to a online copy of the owners manual? I checked Crutchfield but they only have the 84 model and the HMX model manuals up.

A list of owner's manuals can be found here: http://tacpservice.toshiba.com/ConsumerProductSupport/Manuals/TV/2000tvct.asp
However, for some reason there isn't on-line manuals available on-line yet for the 94s. A lot of the information for hook ups and things are the same in the 84s though.

sharonf thank you for the info being a big gamer who plays a lot of PS2 games this was one of my major concerns about a DLP tv and I'v heard this mode helps with the 480i games.

Now I've emailed Toshiba about the TV Guide question but so far no reply...Its not a deal breaker If It don't work In my area but at least knowing in advance I won't waste money on the Symbio then.

Originally posted by BasicCable
sharonf thank you for the info being a big gamer who plays a lot of PS2 games this was one of my major concerns about a DLP tv and I'v heard this mode helps with the 480i games.

Now I've emailed Toshiba about the TV Guide question but so far no reply...Its not a deal breaker If It don't work In my area but at least knowing in advance I won't waste money on the Symbio then.

Just so you know the game mode works very well. We have a Gamecube that we run through S-Video. With Game Mode on I didn't notice any delay trying to kick in Madden 2003. I also tried our other games and didn't notice any delay.

Originally posted by DanofNJ
tristanc,

That is very interesting to me. What db amplifier did you get??? 10 or 25, and what make??

RCA, GE, etc. I am thinking of doing the same. Could you give some details how you set it up?

Thanks,

Dan

I'm the one who suggested the signal booster to improve on cable signals, particularly analog. The one I used is an old, but robust one from Radio Shack; model 15-1171. It's a metal encased (not the plastic kind, this one looks like it means business), directional (one way, indicates "INPUT") 15dB amplifier for up to 1000MHz signals, good for the analog and digital signals that I get from Adelphia. About 2 or 3 years ago the cost was like $50, I suppose they are lower in price now.

There could be other brand cable signal amplifiers out there, the important thing is to check with your service at up to how many MHz you need the equipment to go (it's the same for the splitters or anything in-line); in my case this unit was recommended for digital cable.

Regarding dBs, I think that the next unit was like 25dB, which would've been too much. I also remember that Radio Shack has this type of amplifier with multiple outputs at the same gain, that's to say that if it was this same 15dBs, all the outputs would get 15dB; this would be good if you have more than one home theater setup or many feet of cable going to more boxes and TVs. You can take how my signal is distributed as reference: 2 TVs (including the DLP), 3 VCRs, and 2 digital cable boxes; there are many feet of cable involved.

I thought I was receiving a good enough signal, because on my trusty 27" CRT everything looked fine, but I never thought boosting would bring such good results for the DLP. I say it's worth the try.

Originally posted by Shaner1
Just so you know the game mode works very well. We have a Gamecube that we run through S-Video. With Game Mode on I didn't notice any delay trying to kick in Madden 2003. I also tried our other games and didn't notice any delay.

Shaner1 thats good to here. As Madden Is a game I play a lot of and with my bad reflexes added to the DLP delay 480i games have I need every bit of help I can get. ;)

Originally posted by BasicCable
Shaner1 thats good to here. As Madden Is a game I play a lot of and with my bad reflexes added to the DLP delay 480i games have I need every bit of help I can get. ;)

For what it's worth, my set does not have "Game Mode" and I experience no perceptible lag on any of the three systems (GC, PS2, Xbox).

Anyway, I thought Game Mode was more about picture settings (like Sports Mode) than some special video signal "pass-through" but maybe I'm wrong.

--T.

Originally posted by tristanc
For what it's worth, my set does not have "Game Mode" and I experience no perceptible lag on any of the three systems (GC, PS2, Xbox).

Anyway, I thought Game Mode was more about picture settings (like Sports Mode) than some special video signal "pass-through" but maybe I'm wrong.

--T.

This Is word for word from the 52HMX94 manual on Game mode

"You can use the Game Mode feature for shorter frame delays when
playing a video game requiring split-second timing between the on-screen
display and input from the controller (such as music creation and high-action games)."

Originally posted by BasicCable
This Is word for word from the 52HMX94 manual on Game mode

"You can use the Game Mode feature for shorter frame delays when
playing a video game requiring split-second timing between the on-screen
display and input from the controller (such as music creation and high-action games)."

Damn, now I probably will notice a delay. :)

Seriously, I do a lot of gaming and I've never noticed any delays. Dithering, ghosting, black crush--that I've experienced. But not the infamous DLP-video game delay. YMMV, I suppose...

--T.

Thats how It works....Kinda like the rainbows

You don't notice it as much till you look for it. ;)

tristanc you say you do a lot of gaming. would you recommend this tv to a gamer?

I noticed it in the kicking game but not too much in anything else. When you turn it on then kick you can tell a difference. It's a pretty big difference too.

Originally posted by BasicCable
Thats how It works....Kinda like the rainbows

You don't notice it as much till you look for it. ;)

tristanc you say you do a lot of gaming. would you recommend this tv to a gamer?
Rainbows? Oh man, now I'm seeing those!! :)

Anyway, I bought this TV primarily for its gaming qualities and it's exceeded all my expectations. My room has a large amount of ambient light, which this TV by and large handles very well, where my old RP-CRT was unwatchable during the day. But colors are crisp and vibrant, and the sharpness is outstanding.

GameCube and Xbox both look fantastic (PS2, not so much, because I find the majority of textures used in PS2 games have a washed out look, which are only exacerbated on this TV). I was actually playing the new GBA Zelda game on my Gameboy Player (through the GameCube) on this tv and it looked cool in all it's pixelated glory.

My only regret is not anticipating the price drop on DLPs. My TV (the 62HM84) sells now for about 1100 less than it did 4 months ago. But no worries :)

Hands down, this set is a great gaming tv...

Originally posted by Shaner1
I noticed it in the kicking game but not too much in anything else. When you turn it on then kick you can tell a difference. It's a pretty big difference too.


Interesting--that seems to be the common game where the delay is noticed. I don't play any games with meters in them, so maybe that's why I've never seen it...

--T.

speaking of grey bars, check this out, not sure if it will work on all toshiba's but this guy got the grey bars to go black permenently, I haven't got an all in one remote to try it.
http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/brandspecific/toshiba/generaltweaks/graybars_nomore.html

Hi:

I wanna share what my wife and I did with some brainstorming and our old entertainment center.

4 pics coming, the first showing the old center with my trusty 27" Trinitron.

The old center was compressed wood. With the help of a cabinetmaker it was transformed into this, with the 52HM84 on it.

The second shelf from the bottom had to be replaced with a solid wood one, the original was bent. The shelf were the TV rests is the top of the original.

Being the TV so wide and tall, we opted for a solid wood wall shelf to hold the center channel and some adornments.

Where do all the DVDs and CDs went? This is our solution, taken from catalog pictures and made of solid wood by the cabinetmaker.

All our DVDs are in there, plus the CDs and some VHS. We noticed the unit could've been wider so to fit more media, but as you can see it can still take some more.

I guess we'll need an aditional storage in the future, but it'll be along these lines.

Hope you find this a good idea.

HDMI GHOSTING
---------------------
I haven't seen anyone complain much about ghosting so hopefully the issue has been resolved with the newer Toshibas. My current one has bad ghosting over HDMI and starting to notice it a bit on Component. I got a HK DVD22 player last night and it has a test screen to calibrate the player. Different colors are shown on the test screen and the colors should be solid and then where the colors change you should be able to tell easily with a sharp line (poor description but I'm trying). On my TV, you see don't see a sharp distinction between the colors because of heavy ghosting on each side of the lines. Very obvious with the test pattern. HH Gregg call me today (1/17) and they decided to just replace the set with a new one tomorrow since my first service call was back in late November. Hopefully it'll resolve my issue.

HTPC PC
-----------
As mentioned on this board before, I was able to setup a small PC using an ATI ALL in Wonder 9800 AGP card with component out setting it to 1776*1000i and the desktop fits the screen fine. Comparing a few games, I tried out the Two Towers on the xbox at 480p against Return of the King at 960*720 on the PC and there was no comparison. Also, NBA Live 2005 PC running at 1280*1024i vs the xbox version is a major diference. The PC works great for games. I found a link and took an xbox controller and split the wires and connected to one end of a USB cable and used a driver off of the net and now can play PC games on the PC on the Toshiba just like an xbox (except the mouse and keyboard are still needed). This should work great until the xbox2 comes out in November (or at least rumored to be).

HTPC DVD PLAYER
-----------------------
Has anyone tried using their HTPC as a DVD player? Using my Toshiba and the HK DVD22 I just bought still produces grainy pictures if DVDs aren't perfect. With the ATI AIW 9800 via component out at 1000i removes lots of graininess and looks much better than a standard DVD player. I took a simple DVD like Andy Griffith (B&W) and even the 40+ year old show looks fantastic. The standard version of Spiderman2 looked much better using the PC over component than the Superbit version on the HK DVD22. Problem is, Most DVDs will not let you play them in the 1000i resolution because of no HDCP over component. Anyone found a way around this? Maybe it's the DVD decoder that's not letting you play the DVDs above 480p.

Julio,

I have that exact same entertainment center in the guest room waitong for disassembly and the trash. Anyone near Beverly, Ma who wants a kewl new customized DLP stand like Julios's, PM me. I'll let it go for a case of soda : )

chaz,

its funny to see Beverly,Ma since thats where I live. I have been reading these posts for months waiting for the right time and money to buy my toshiba. I think the 52hmx84 is the right one unless the tuner cards in the 94's have a significant PQ advantage. Just seems they have guide issues.

Anyone else here from the North Shore?

Mitch

xb1032: I think you need a program for that. Someone wrote a guide of sorts here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=469093&highlight=ffdshow

describing step-by-step how to do it with the ATI card.

Hope that helps!

Originally posted by maritimer
speaking of grey bars, check this out, not sure if it will work on all toshiba's but this guy got the grey bars to go black permenently, I haven't got an all in one remote to try it.
http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/brandspecific/toshiba/generaltweaks/graybars_nomore.html

I'm not sure this info pertains to the hx84/94 series. Can anyone confirm this? I've gotten into Service Mode, and none of the parameters even come close to what the posting describes. I believe that Toshiba started over with new codes & values with the DLP sets.

Mitch,

Let us know when you finally "bite" and your opinions on the set. I'll prolly be watching my little crt rp for a couple more years before swapping up.

By the way, I am serious about the stand offer, it's going in the trash at some point.

Charlie

Hey Charlie,

Will do on any updates once I get it. I'm good on the stand...I have one for my 50" RPTV Sony KL-W9000.

Just thought it was funny to see someone else posting here from Beverly.

Mitch

Originally posted by moman19
I'm not sure this info pertains to the hx84/94 series. Can anyone confirm this? I've gotten into Service Mode, and none of the parameters even come close to what the posting describes. I believe that Toshiba started over with new codes & values with the DLP sets. So are you able to get to the register menu (ADDR) but the hex code isn't valid?

Originally posted by kdog044
So are you able to get to the register menu (ADDR) but the hex code isn't valid?

Yes. I'm able to get into Service Menu mode. This is where an "S" shows up on the screen and you can modify color, Vertical & Horizontal positioning, etc. (it's all in HEX) along with about 30 other parameters that are very cryptic. None of the parameters, nor their values come close to what I see on the referenced posting. Since I'm happy with the set (other than those damn BARS!!!) I have not tweaked anything for fear of blowing something up. Buit not one parameter even closely resembles anything related to bars, screen background color, etc.

Originally posted by moman19
Yes. I'm able to get into Service Menu mode. This is where an "S" shows up on the screen and you can modify color, Vertical & Horizontal positioning, etc. (it's all in HEX) along with about 30 other parameters that are very cryptic. None of the parameters, nor their values come close to what I see on the referenced posting. Since I'm happy with the set (other than those damn BARS!!!) I have not tweaked anything for fear of blowing something up. Buit not one parameter even closely resembles anything related to bars, screen background color, etc. If you are in the register menu you should see the letters ADDR in the upper left hand corner. See below.

Pressing the macro button once should now put your TV in the ADDR mode. You will see the letters ADDR in the upper left corner and some letters and numbers.
Now, pressing the VOLUME button will change parameters, so don't press it unless you feel like experimenting. Simply press the CHANNEL up and down and you will cycle through parameters without making any changes. Stop when you reach the following parameter: (I had to scroll up for a WHILE)

2B7H - this controls the brightness of the sidebars and will probably show you a value of 07.

Now - simply press the volume down until that value reaches 00. (you will see the side bars turn black) TURN YOUR SET OFF TO EXIT ADDR MODE.


What OFA remote are you using? Are you able to scroll to 2B7 and if so what is the value?

CAREFUL.

The link on Keohi HDTV talks about two modes: design mode and ADDR mode. I suspect these are not the same as the Service mode found on newer Toshiba sets. One of the newer parameters in the Service mode possibly controls the same thing as the 2B7H parameter referenced above.

I have the Service manual for my 50HX81 Toshiba and will have a look. It does have a Service Mode.

Paul.

Originally posted by kdog044
If you are in the register menu you should see the letters ADDR in the upper left hand corner. See below.

Pressing the macro button once should now put your TV in the ADDR mode. You will see the letters ADDR in the upper left corner and some letters and numbers.
Now, pressing the VOLUME button will change parameters, so don't press it unless you feel like experimenting. Simply press the CHANNEL up and down and you will cycle through parameters without making any changes. Stop when you reach the following parameter: (I had to scroll up for a WHILE)

2B7H - this controls the brightness of the sidebars and will probably show you a value of 07.

Now - simply press the volume down until that value reaches 00. (you will see the side bars turn black) TURN YOUR SET OFF TO EXIT ADDR MODE.


What OFA remote are you using? Are you able to scroll to 2B7 and if so what is the value?

I have not gotten to this point because I don't yet have the remote needed to set up the macro. Have you already done this on your own set with success or are you merely repeating what's on the Keohi web page?

I have not yet gained access to anything but Service Mode, which has an "S" in the corner.

Originally posted by pbir
CAREFUL.

The link on Keohi HDTV talks about two modes: design mode and ADDR mode. I suspect these are not the same as the Service mode found on newer Toshiba sets. One of the newer parameters in the Service mode possibly controls the same thing as the 2B7H parameter referenced above.

I have the Service manual for my 50HX81 Toshiba and will have a look. It does have a Service Mode.

Paul.

I'm interested in hearing what you uncover. As previously stated, I can only access Service Mode, but no parameters appear to be associated with the gray bars. If I must get into "designer" Mode or ADDR mode to reach the 2B7H parameter, I first need to know how to get there. Perhaps your manual contains this info as well.

I'm still not convinced that all this info even applies to our DLP sets.

The Service manual for the 50H81/50HX81 does not talk about anything other than Service mode (no design mode, no ADDR). I had a look at the 36 parameters which can be changed (in HEX ! - at least they are consistent) and nothing jumps out as affecting the gray bars.

I agree with the post above: it is possible that even the 3-year old Service parameters of the HX81 would not apply to the DLP sets.

Paul.

Originally posted by pbir
The Service manual for the 50H81/50HX81 does not talk about anything other than Service mode (no design mode, no ADDR). Paul, the register menu is not documented in the service menu but it does work for the H and HX series TV's. There are only a few adjustments that can made in the register menu but the grey bars adjustment is one of them. What we need to validate is if it works for the HM and HMX series as these are the first DLP models. Unless you have an OFA or JP1 or other programmable remote you won't be able to access this menu.

Originally posted by moman19
Have you already done this on your own set with success or are you merely repeating what's on the Keohi web page? I don't have this TV or I could test it. I am looking at purchasing the 52HMX94 or the 62HMX94. If we can't get confirmation on this before this weekend I'll head to my local retailer with my remote and check it out.:D The 014 code is standard for many of the earlier Toshiba's and my remote is programmable.

Originally posted by kdog044
I don't have this TV or I could test it. I am looking at purchasing the 52HMX94 or the 62HMX94. If we can't get confirmation on this before this weekend I'll head to my local retailer with my remote and check it out.:D The 014 code is standard for many of the earlier Toshiba's and my remote is programmable.

I will be most interested in learning how you make out. Can you merely point your pre-promgrammed remote at the TV, press the macro button and suddenly be in ADDR mode? S

Seeing will be believing. Please keep us posted.

Originally posted by moman19
Can you merely point your pre-promgrammed remote at the TV, press the macro button and suddenly be in ADDR mode? Basically, yes. I don't need to program it as a macro as I have a JP1 remote and I can just download the code to a designated key on the remote. It's just an IR hex code just like any other function on a remote would be. If nobody can validate this I will report back when I get the chance to visit the store.

Originally posted by kdog044
Basically, yes. I don't need to program it as a macro as I have a JP1 remote and I can just download the code to a designated key on the remote. It's just an IR hex code just like any other function on a remote would be. If nobody can validate this I will report back when I get the chance to visit the store.

Kdog:

I'll be watching this space for your results and I'm sure I'm not alone.

Good luck!

I'm curious as to what DVD player so are using with this display. If anyone is using any of the upconverting players please provide feedback on how you like it and if you are using the HDMI input or component and why.

Kdog:

I'm using the Toshiba 5970 which upconverts. It's connected via HDMI. Although a few others on various forums have given it mixed reviews, here's my take:
1. PQ is outstanding. Near HD quality. No kidding. Very pleased with it.
2. No HDMI ghosting at all, even though I experience severe ghosting when I connect my Dish receiver via DVI/HDMI cable. Fixed the Dish issue by going with Component.
3. Only negatives I perceive about the player is that it is a bit light, short in depth (difficult to place anything on top of it) and perhaps a bit fragile....you would not want to pound on the front panel buttons. Also, the remote is a bit sluggish. Sometimes it takes 2 pushes of a button (PLAY for example) to get the thing to respond. But this is no biggie for me.

Originally posted by kdog044
Basically, yes. I don't need to program it as a macro as I have a JP1 remote and I can just download the code to a designated key on the remote. It's just an IR hex code just like any other function on a remote would be. If nobody can validate this I will report back when I get the chance to visit the store.

Do you know what is the IR hex code to get into ADDR mode? I have a Harmony 676 which can take the code.

I also want to change the Gray bar to BLACK.

Thanks.

Originally posted by tomcc
Do you know what is the IR hex code to get into ADDR mode? I have a Harmony 676 which can take the code.

I also want to change the Gray bar to BLACK.

Thanks.

Go here, as this is what rekindled our interest:

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/bran...ars_nomore.html

tomcc:

I believe the HEX value is 014, but this is for a previous Toshiba set and we've yet to verify if it works for the HX 84/94 series of DLP sets. Kdog is planning to smoke this out by going to a store. More power to you if you can get a definitive answer first.

Please let us know what you uncover. I've gotten into Service Mode without the special remote, but it looks as if the Gary Bar parameter is not available at that point and we must get to ADDR.

Originally posted by tomcc
Do you know what is the IR hex code to get into ADDR mode? I have a Harmony 676 which can take the code.

I also want to change the Gray bar to BLACK.

Thanks. The EFC is 014, the OBC is 254 and the hex value is 80 using the NEC1 protocol. I'm not familiar with your remote so I don't know what information you need. For OFA remotes they just program the Toshiba 0156 TV setup code and add the 014 using the macro function or through the JP1 interface. Keep in mind that we have not validated if this still works with the HM and HMX series but would welcome feedback if you can test this out. Here is the link to the process.

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/brandspecific/toshiba/generaltweaks/graybars_nomore.html

P.S. The register menu is even in my old CRT (CZ32V51) but I haven't had any need to try and figure out what the address codes are for. If you don't know what you are doing it is possible to render your TV inoperable so use caution if you do experiment and document any original values.

Originally posted by whjeffs
I had a guy from the technical research department of Toshiba call me back today about the problems I have been having getting the TV Guide onscreen to work. He said that all of the Toshiba 94 series TVs potentially have this problem and that it's related to the way TV Guide is sending out the signal that the TV cannot recognize it properly. He said TV Guide is aware of the problem and have been working on correcting it. I asked when this would happen and he said hopefully in about 2 weeks. He said nothing different needs to be done with the TV. Once they fix the problem on their end the listings will start showing up.

I'll have to wait and see. The TV Guide On Screen listings work fine on my Panasonic DMR-E85H DVD recorder so the signal is there but the problem with it on the TV may be a blame game between Toshiba and TV Guide.


Jeff

This has got to be the most exasperating thing I've ever dealt with! I had almost all eight days of program listings with only a single 24 hour gap and then it dumped the whole thing. I'll bet I've gone through the initial set up process a dozen times. On several occasions, after leaving the TV off overnight, the next morning there is the blank " no data " screen and when accessing the channel portion of the setup menu, all the channels are there but are set to "OFF". So who is going to fix this problem, TV Guide or Toshiba? Should we start a new thread on just TV Guide problems? Is this feature included on other brands of sets that use CableCard?

Originally posted by 196thLIB
This has got to be the most exasperating thing I've ever dealt with! I had almost all eight days of program listings with only a single 24 hour gap and then it dumped the whole thing. I'll bet I've gone through the initial set up process a dozen times. On several occasions, after leaving the TV off overnight, the next morning there is the blank " no data " screen and when accessing the channel portion of the setup menu, all the channels are there but are set to "OFF". So who is going to fix this problem, TV Guide or Toshiba? Should we start a new thread on just TV Guide problems? Is this feature included on other brands of sets that use CableCard?

The same thing happens sometimes with my LG LST3410A tuners. On Friday, both of my tuners had full guide listings....then on Saturday evening the one in the living room lost all of the listings and it still hasn't regained them. And some of the channels were changed to "OFF" in the setup menu.

Originally posted by kdog044
I'm curious as to what DVD player so are using with this display. If anyone is using any of the upconverting players please provide feedback on how you like it and if you are using the HDMI input or component and why.

kdog,

I've got the Samsung HD841 DVD player hooked up to my Toshiba 52HM84 via component and DVI-to-HDMI cables. At this point, I actually prefer to watch DVDs using the component input rather than the DVI. I love the picture quality of the DVDs when viewed through the DVI/HDMI input, but I find the picture too dark. I haven't found a setting that I am comfortable with, so for now I choose to watch movies via the component input. The picture quality is still outstanding and the black level is much more reasonable. If anyone else has found a solution to this problem, I'd love to hear it. Overall, I'm very satisified with every other aspect of this setup. I have very little problem with rainbows, though I do occasionally see them on the regular digital cable channels. I can not detect any ghosting ever and do not see any rainbows when watching HD programming. The Rose Bowl looked great in HD, although I would have preferred a better outcome. Go Blue!

Originally posted by aerobson
The Rose Bowl looked great in HD, although I would have preferred a better outcome. Go Blue! Thanks for the feedback. I ended up watching the game on my friends 62" Sony but his wife wouldn't let him keep the HD he had for last years super bowl. I hear you on the outcome being from Michigan as well.:mad:

I have a 52hmx94 and I tried the "grey bar" fix.
The set does go into ADDR mode, using the 014 code as described.
However, address 2B7H (wow is that a lot of button pushes to get to from 00H) contains FF (not 07H), and seems to be in an area that isn't used as there are lots of FFs around it.
I didn't try changing the value, as FF would likely be a max brightness value, which the grey bars aren't.
It looks like the side bar brightness is stored in another address.


Also:
My guide has never worked (2 months+ now).

I'm using the Sony S975 DVD player, it works great, and I CAN tell it provides a better picture using HDMI instead of component.
It does a very good job of preventing the coding blocks from appearing in the picture. It does have a slightly different color rendition than the component input, but the picture settings work for HDMI and with a slightly different setting than component it actually looks better than component.

My biggest complaint about the TV is the radically different flesh tones between channels, or even between commercials and programming on the same channel. On OTA HD, I have to set it 1 or 2 clicks towards RED (on hue), but on cable SD I have to set it to 15-20 clicks towards red. This is even with the color set WAY lower (~35) than the default settings.
On the DVD inputs I have to set it between 0 and 1 or 2 clicks towards red (very similar to the HD settings).

Gary

Tonight I finally tried my PC on my 52HMX84.

It has an ATI Radeon 9800 pro card, so i used a DVI-to-HDMI cable. I got it working, but although the driver in winxp shows it as 1280x720, i nonetheless lose maybe almost an inch each direction. I even tried to "force 720p" in the ATI control panel, didn't help.

In addition the colors didn't look that great, and it flickered a little bit.

I have the latest aTI drivers. Any suggestions how to make the pic look very close to what i got on my gorgeous Sony Trinitron CRT monitor?

Originally posted by Gwhiz
I have a 52hmx94 and I tried the "grey bar" fix.
The set does go into ADDR mode, using the 014 code as described.
However, address 2B7H (wow is that a lot of button pushes to get to from 00H) contains FF (not 07H), and seems to be in an area that isn't used as there are lots of FFs around it.
I didn't try changing the value, as FF would likely be a max brightness value, which the grey bars aren't.
It looks like the side bar brightness is stored in another address.


Also:
My guide has never worked (2 months+ now).

I'm using the Sony S975 DVD player, it works great, and I CAN tell it provides a better picture using HDMI instead of component.
It does a very good job of preventing the coding blocks from appearing in the picture. It does have a slightly different color rendition than the component input, but the picture settings work for HDMI and with a slightly different setting than component it actually looks better than component.

My biggest complaint about the TV is the radically different flesh tones between channels, or even between commercials and programming on the same channel. On OTA HD, I have to set it 1 or 2 clicks towards RED (on hue), but on cable SD I have to set it to 15-20 clicks towards red. This is even with the color set WAY lower (~35) than the default settings.
On the DVD inputs I have to set it between 0 and 1 or 2 clicks towards red (very similar to the HD settings).

Gary

What remote are you using. I can't seem to get my Harmony 676 to work. It asking to enter infrared key codes, sequences or Philips Pronto codes". 014 is no good for Harmony remote. Please someone help.

I will like to get into ADDR mode and try changing some of the setting and hope to find one for the gary bar. Thanks.

Originally posted by xb1032
HDMI GHOSTING
---------------------
I haven't seen anyone complain much about ghosting so hopefully the issue has been resolved with the newer Toshibas. My current one has bad ghosting over HDMI and starting to notice it a bit on Component. I got a HK DVD22 player last night and it has a test screen to calibrate the player. Different colors are shown on the test screen and the colors should be solid and then where the colors change you should be able to tell easily with a sharp line (poor description but I'm trying). On my TV, you see don't see a sharp distinction between the colors because of heavy ghosting on each side of the lines. Very obvious with the test pattern. HH Gregg call me today (1/17) and they decided to just replace the set with a new one tomorrow since my first service call was back in late November. Hopefully it'll resolve my issue.



Have you received the replacement yet? Please let us know of any changes.

I used a One for ALL, model 6131. BB has them on sale for $10.99

I would strongly recommend that you NOT randomly fiddle with this mode, you can easily make your TV non-operative, or make it work poorly.

Supposedly many of the calibration parameters are unique set to set, and I'm not sure you can find anyone with the code info to re-calibrate it yet.


According to some other web sites, certain IR codes (when you have entered service mode) can cause a re-load of default parameters or worse.
So, I would also advise against "trying buttons" on your remote when in service mode.


Gary

What kind of Surge protectors is everyone using with their set ups? I'm looking at some of the Monster Power Centers. Are they really worth the money? After paying all of this money on my set I want to try to make sure it's protected.

Originally posted by Gwhiz
I'm using the Sony S975 DVD player, it works great, and I CAN tell it provides a better picture using HDMI instead of component.
It does a very good job of preventing the coding blocks from appearing in the picture. It does have a slightly different color rendition than the component input, but the picture settings work for HDMI and with a slightly different setting than component it actually looks better than component.
Gary, I imagine the color rendition you are referring to is to the the Sony using SD601 colorspace instead of HD709 when using the HDMI output. I too, am looking seriously at this player. If you haven't read the thread on this player in the DVD forum here is what I am referring to and some possible tweaks to improve the color.

Some TVs do not allow for the selection of the SD color Matrix at 1080i/720p. The Panasonic TC-22LH1 LCD TV allows for selection at 480p only. NTSC (SD) and ATSC (HD) process color in a different way -- not radically different but somewhat different. DVDs are encoded for SD matrix. The DVP-NS975V converts the 480i signal to 1080i. So far, so good. However, in the case of the Sony, the SD color matrix of the DVD is not converted to the HD matrix. In viewing on a display fixed at HD color matix only at 1080i, the differences between matrices with red and blue are slight. With green, however, the difference is significant. Sending an SD color matrix to a display that is expecting an HD color matrix results in a significant reduction of the color green -- the "green depression". The issue is easily seen via Avia or DVE color patterns. If the display cannot change the matrix at 1080i there isn't much to be done. The display could have the color decoders recalibrated to compensate but that might come at the expense of color fidelity with true HD material. The display's color can be boosted to bring up the green but the red and blue become unreal and the color imbalance still exists. Adjusting the "HUE" on the '975V holds some promise. More later.

What does this "green depression" mean to the average viewer with a TV with a fixed HD color matrix at HD resolutions? In viewing the material at 480p (which has no color problem at SD matrix) and switching to the HD matrix, one can see the major difference is in the rendition of facial tones. EVERYONE has a slightly "yellowish" or "jaundiced" look when viewing HD Matrix @ 480p. Many people might not notice but it's there. Switching back to HD Matrix @1080i mirrors what is seen at HD Matrix @ 480p. I can live with the "jaundiced" look as well but, in my view, it's more "in your face" than macroblocking (pun intended).

What can be done? While there are some other subtle problems, the most apparent of the HD/SD conflict issue, in my view, is the rendition of facial tones. By comparing the HD/SD matrix (switchable for me) at 480p has resulted in this suggestion: See manual's page 59. Set "Picture Mode" to "Memory". Set the "COLOR" to -2 and the "HUE" to -3. These settings seem to hide most of the negative aspects of the "jaundice" look and not introduce much of a negative side affect (so far). Of course the DVE "blue filter" will not be correct, but the visual side affects appear to be minor. If this change is done, please refer to page 81 of the manual and have a look at the "Playback Memory" setting. It might be a good idea to set it to "OFF", as any already played discs will reset the picture controls to whatever setting was present when that disc was first loaded. Setting the controls on the player will avoid the issue of affecting the settings for the other inputs, if the display does not memorize the display settings for each input.

Originally posted by Gwhiz
I have a 52hmx94 and I tried the "grey bar" fix.
The set does go into ADDR mode, using the 014 code as described.
However, address 2B7H (wow is that a lot of button pushes to get to from 00H) contains FF (not 07H), and seems to be in an area that isn't used as there are lots of FFs around it.
I didn't try changing the value, as FF would likely be a max brightness value, which the grey bars aren't.
It looks like the side bar brightness is stored in another address.

Gary, thanks for checking on this. Hopefully we can find out what the address is for the grey bars. I would bet the setting is there somewhere. Usually Toshiba doesn't change too much. If you get a chance check out 0B7 to see what data is in this field. My older Toshiba only goes up to FF and it does have a value of 07 in the B7 field. I know this doesn't mean that that is the setting but I'm just curious.

Also, in case you haven't figured it out you don't have to shut off the TV to exit the ADDR mode. The exit button using the Toshiba 0156 device setup works. This is EFC 229 or E8 hex code.

Originally posted by Gwhiz
I have a 52hmx94 and I tried the "grey bar" fix.
The set does go into ADDR mode, using the 014 code as described.
However, address 2B7H (wow is that a lot of button pushes to get to from 00H) contains FF (not 07H), and seems to be in an area that isn't used as there are lots of FFs around it.
I didn't try changing the value, as FF would likely be a max brightness value, which the grey bars aren't.
It looks like the side bar brightness is stored in another address.



Gary

Take a look at this address. I found it mentioned on another Forum. Hopefully it contains a value in the 07 range.

Location: D74H

Originally posted by moman19
Take a look at this address. I found it mentioned on another Forum. Hopefully it contains a value in the 07 range.

Location: D74H I saw that for the HX series so maybe it carried over to the HM and HMX.

Originally posted by ndahbar
Tonight I finally tried my PC on my 52HMX84.

It has an ATI Radeon 9800 pro card, so i used a DVI-to-HDMI cable. I got it working, but although the driver in winxp shows it as 1280x720, i nonetheless lose maybe almost an inch each direction. I even tried to "force 720p" in the ATI control panel, didn't help.

In addition the colors didn't look that great, and it flickered a little bit.

I have the latest aTI drivers. Any suggestions how to make the pic look very close to what i got on my gorgeous Sony Trinitron CRT monitor?

ndahbar:

Some report that the computer output may be better over component.
ATI has a $30 dongel for your card which provides component (rgb) outputs.
You might want to try this and compare the relative picture quality.
I know that it dosent make sense that the componet should look bettter
but the HDMI input of thease sets jest dosenst seem quite right. Please
let us know if you do this comparative experiment. From what I hear it
fixes the overscan issue as well (read earlier posts in this thread).

Originally posted by kdog044

Take a look at this address. I found it mentioned on another Forum. Hopefully it contains a value in the 07 range.

Location: D74H



I looked at D74H. It contains 10H, and has no effect on the sidebar brightness when changed.

I think I'll leave it to someone else to risk a disaster by fooling around with these values, I'm too much of a pessimist to tempt fate on this.


Gary

Originally posted by Gwhiz
I looked at D74H. It contains 10H, and has no effect on the sidebar brightness when changed.

I think I'll leave it to someone else to risk a disaster by fooling around with these values, I'm too much of a pessimist to tempt fate on this.


Gary Thanks for looking into it. I don't blame you on not wanting to be the guinea pig.:D I'll keep checking to see if I can find out if the potential to change this still exists and where it might be.

Originally posted by Gwhiz
I looked at D74H. It contains 10H, and has no effect on the sidebar brightness when changed.

I think I'll leave it to someone else to risk a disaster by fooling around with these values, I'm too much of a pessimist to tempt fate on this.


Gary

Oh well, thanks for trying. It has to be buried in there somewhere. Sooner or later someone in the know will hopefully step up and share the correct info with us.

I hate those damn bars!!!!!

Originally posted by moman19
Oh well, thanks for trying. It has to be buried in there somewhere. Sooner or later someone in the know will hopefully step up and share the correct info with us.

I hate those damn bars!!!!!

Wouldn't it be safer to schedule a service call? Surely the authorized Toshiba techs out there must know how to change the bars to black. Has anyone tried getting Toshiba to send someone out to address this?

Originally posted by Rudy1
Wouldn't it be safer to schedule a service call? Surely the authorized Toshiba techs out there must know how to change the bars to black. Has anyone tried getting Toshiba to send someone out to address this? Since it isn't in the service menu but the arcane register menu I doubt that any technician even knows about it much less what hex registers are used for what.

Help changing channels.

I have a 52hmx94 and am wondering if anyone knows how to force a channel to be added or a way to select a channel explicitly (32.1) as opposed to the virtual channels the tv sets up for you?

The problem I have is that the digital ABC channel in Houston went out a few weeks ago and doing some searching I found that they are having problems with properly sending their psip (?) . The toshiba won't acknowledge a channel even exists. I can't figure out how to either add it manually or change the channel to the 'real' channel where abc resices (32.1)

Anyone else run into a similar problem?

Thank you for your time.

Originally posted by Rudy1
Wouldn't it be safer to schedule a service call? Surely the authorized Toshiba techs out there must know how to change the bars to black. Has anyone tried getting Toshiba to send someone out to address this?

I lobbied Toshiba on this with ZERO success. For one, the set's not broken so it's not considered a service call. Two, Toshiba maintains (I hope they're wrong) that there is NO WAY to adjust the bars. Three, I threatened to return the set when brand new and they said "...go ahead...".

Toshiba just doesn't care and I wasn't goiung to cut off my nose to spite my face. Other than this annoyance, It's the best picture for the bucks. Too bad the user simply cannot choose the color of the bars via menu option, as on so many other brand sets.

Oh well....let's keep on trying.

I picked up my 52HM84 today and I will set it up tonight when I get home. One of the first things I want to do is to calibrate it with my Avia disk. This got me thinking… when using anything like the Avia disk are you not just adjusting the picture for dvd input and picture..? How then do you calibrate for Cable TV viewing..?

I know I'm going to love this TV, I have a dedicated heater room with a DLP Front projector and I love the contrast and black level of DLP, and I never see any rainbows.

Can’t wait to get home!

Originally posted by HD4Life
One of the first things I want to do is to calibrate it with my Avia disk. This got me thinking… when using anything like the Avia disk are you not just adjusting the picture for dvd input and picture..? How then do you calibrate for Cable TV viewing..?


Actually I would think calling adjusting the picture controls "calibrating" is a misnomer.

What the guys who charge you to calibrate the set do is adjust the color temperature and, if they can, the color decoder and other things.

You are correct, you can only adjust the inputs you connect to the DVD player when using AVIA or DVE, plus it's actually just adjusted for THAT DVD player.
The best you can do is use AVIA or DVE to set the inputs you use your DVD player on (and then re-adjust it when actual movies appear too colorful).

Then when it comes to the tuner inputs, just use your best judgement to adjust it to your preference. It doesn't even make sense to start with the settings you used on the DVD player in my case, as SD required LOTs of RED cranked in to keep people from looking green, and OTA HD seems to need different settings as well.

The bottom line is adjust it the way you like it (unless you have VERY expensive calibrated signal sources for everything).


Gary

Well, I got my 52 all setup and it ran great for about 10 min and then the pictuer started to go all wack and bam! lost the green. Pixeling like crazy and with only the blue and red working, it's just sick!

Originally posted by HD4Life
Well, I got my 52 all setup and it ran great for about 10 min and then the picture started to go all wacko and bam! lost the green. Pixeling like crazy and with only the blue and red working, it's just sick!

How do you have your TV hooked up? If you have cable try checking your cable connections. I briefly had a similar thing happen and discovered that one of the cable connections was loose. When it happened a second time I replaced the whole cable and everything has been fine since.

Originally posted by HD4Life
Well, I got my 52 all setup and it ran great for about 10 min and then the pictuer started to go all wack and bam! lost the green. Pixeling like crazy and with only the blue and red working, it's just sick!

Its called DMD Board and you have a bad one. I have been through it. Initially a power off "reset" solves the problem and it keeps getting worse until there is no picture at all. I would recommend you to get the TV replaced. Replacing the board is an option but it involves ripping apart the TV and putting it all back together.

Originally posted by sharonf
What kind of Surge protectors is everyone using with their set ups? I'm looking at some of the Monster Power Centers. Are they really worth the money? After paying all of this money on my set I want to try to make sure it's protected.

Hello sharonf:

I like that you go for the practical and protecting aspects of the home theater experience. On that issue I have a suggestion that may have been already applied by some, but for others may be new as I don't see any comments on this thread.

I think Monster Cable products are too expensive, I know their quality and warranties are great...but so are our TVs and they are cheaper than plasma and LCD, not to mention more durable.

Regarding the way the bulb protection works for these Toshibas, and DLPs in general, I think the way to go is a UPS with voltage regulation. Why? Because if there is a power failure in your area the system is just gonna shut down, without it's proper cooling process. With a UPS, in case of power failure you can turn OFF the TV and because the fan's consumption is minimal, the cycle should run completely.

If your power utility is super reliable, then a voltage regulator with surge protection is the way to go. I bought one from Tripp-Lite (1200W for all the home theater. Also got an in-line coax protector) about 5 years ago and it's been great, I've suffered many brownouts in that time and my equipment hasn't noticed. This unit's cost was like $150; so what would a comparable Monster unit would have been, $500 maybe?

Before getting the Toshiba I looked for a UPS offer to match with my regulator. Because I don't need everything to be on battery, got one 450W Conexant unit ($70) which is connected to the regulator and then the TV, VCRs, and Cable box; since the TV is only 190W it's fine.

Computers and Audio/Video stores should have suitable units from the likes of Tripp-Lite and APC; most of them include phone line protection and there should be some with coaxial line protection. The important thing is that they have voltage regulation, you want a nice controled wave getting into your equipment. Most of these units cost hundreds of dollars less than Monster's, and if it's a matter of outlets, extensions and strips are cheap too.

Originally posted by HD4Life
I picked up my 52HM84 today and I will set it up tonight when I get home. One of the first things I want to do is to calibrate it with my Avia disk. This got me thinking… when using anything like the Avia disk are you not just adjusting the picture for dvd input and picture..? How then do you calibrate for Cable TV viewing..?


You can check my post in page 65. I took these settings wrote them down and used them for the other inputs as reference. So far it's been OK with everything, but like Gwhiz said, it's not an exact calibration and it'll probably be different for every source.

Use the AVIA DVD results as reference and then do your own fine tuning, taking into consideration the specifics, this means that if, for example, skin color is your problem, then change only the Tint parameter. Good thing about the Toshiba is that the settings move in very small steps, great for fine tuning.

sharonf, I tried all that and even hooked up a crt tv to the line and it was fine. I think it's like kriore said that the DMD is shot to hell. The B&M I got it from is bring in another one tomorrow and I'll swap it out on Saturday. I just hope that one will be ok.

Originally posted by Gwhiz
I used a One for ALL, model 6131. BB has them on sale for $10.99

I would strongly recommend that you NOT randomly fiddle with this mode, you can easily make your TV non-operative, or make it work poorly.

Supposedly many of the calibration parameters are unique set to set, and I'm not sure you can find anyone with the code info to re-calibrate it yet.


According to some other web sites, certain IR codes (when you have entered service mode) can cause a re-load of default parameters or worse.
So, I would also advise against "trying buttons" on your remote when in service mode.


Gary

Thank for the info. I gave up on getting my Harmony 676 to work. When to Bestbuy and pick one out that is the same as your. It work. :D

Originally posted by Julio Bro!
Hello sharonf:



If your power utility is super reliable, then a voltage regulator with surge protection is the way to go. I bought one from Tripp-Lite (1200W for all the home theater. Also got an in-line coax protector) about 5 years ago and it's been great, I've suffered many brownouts in that time and my equipment hasn't noticed. This unit's cost was like $150; so what would a comparable Monster unit would have been, $500 maybe?



Hi again Julio,

Thanks for the very informative reply. You're right in that I normally do take a very practical approach to things. :p Do you have a model number for the Tripp-Lite? I started looking at those yesterday too. I most likely will have to order online. The town I live in doesn't have any big Computers and Audio/Video stores so if I do find what I want here I usually have to pay a premium price. I saved $1800 by buying my TV online rather than locally. We have very few power failures here (I live in the desert where it very seldom rains) but we do have an occasional one. Would you still recommend a UPS also?

Originally posted by HD4Life
sharonf, I tried all that and even hooked up a crt tv to the line and it was fine. I think it's like kriore said that the DMD is shot to hell. The B&M I got it from is bring in another one tomorrow and I'll swap it out on Saturday. I just hope that one will be ok.

I feel for you then. I excitedly awaited the delivery of my new set too, only to have it arrive with a crack in the corner of a speaker and some internal damage as well. The set would come on for a few minutes and then shut down and I'd have blinking red and green lights.The delivery men went against procedure and unboxed the set before bringing it into my house and I'm sure how that is when it was damaged. Fortunately the store replaced my set and had the damaged one picked up. It was such a disappointment to have to wait for the new set again though so I understand your disappointment.

I have a Scientific Atlanta 8000HD set top box connected to my 52HM84. It is possible to select one several output formats for the 8000HD (in component mode, because the DVI output is not yet activated).

Since the 52HM84 is a 720P fixed pixel display, one could assume that the best output resolution to select for the 8000HD would be 720P. That way, for stations which broadcast in 720P (such as ABC and Fox), no conversion would be done anywhere. For those broadcasting in 1080i, only one conversion would be done to 720P in the 8000HD.

The Toshiba User's Guide for the 52HM84 recommends to feed it 1080i. In fact, this is mentioned for upscaling DVD players as well, as they claim the 1080i input will provide the best picture performance. For 720P stations, this could mean a conversion to 1080i in the HD8000 and a conversion to 720P in the 52HM84

I have run a few comparison tests, which are not conclusive (I do not see a real difference). I also have a Denon DVD-3910 and watching Shrek 2 over HDMI seems to have a slight improvement when the DVD player's output format is set to 1080i instead of 720P.

There's probably something that I do not understand.

Any ideas ?

Paul.

Removed. Duplicate post.

Folks, is there a faq on this model ? I hate reading 70+ pages to see what the problems are and how to workaround them if one exists. A simple one page document which lists this would be ideal.

My "problems" started when I wasn't getting the quality picutre I had hoped for with my $2000+ television (Tosh 46HM).

I've posted a few times trying to figure out why HD channels (via my D* box) looked better on my CRT (not digital, maybe 10 years old) and the only reply worth trying was to switch from component to HMDI.

So I went out and got one....now it's worse.
The D* box is set to allow all resolutions, native mode. (letting the TV pick)
If the show is coming in 1080i, the pic looks "ok", perhaps worse then component. If I change the channel and it goes to a 720p channel, the TV freaks out....and shows garbage/flickering until I change the channel back to a 1080i broadcast. Once it's back to the 1080i channel, the TV has a reallly bad hue that turns blue to green and red to purple. The only way to get the TV back to normal is to reset the D* box. (turning off/on the box or even the TV doesn't help).

*as a side note, when the TV is in this "bad hue"' state, using a different connection method to the TV from the D* box (component or composite) looks normal. So the problem is isolated to HDMI.

So, I guess I have 2 questions
1) How can the HMDI (which based on my understanding sends an unconverted Digital signal to the TV) show an inferior image to component. (which I believe means the box has converted to analog, and then the TV has to convert back).

2) How can I prove to either D* or Toshiba which device (assuming not both) sucks. I don't have another HDMI source, and I don't have another HDMI TV. I was going to "borrow" the Samsung HDTV box to test with but it only has DVI and to be quite honest, I'm tired of buying cables :)

Originally posted by pbir
The Toshiba User's Guide for the 52HM84 recommends to feed it 1080i. In fact, this is mentioned for upscaling DVD players as well, as they claim the 1080i input will provide the best picture performance. For 720P stations, this could mean a conversion to 1080i in the HD8000 and a conversion to 720P in the 52HM84

I have run a few comparison tests, which are not conclusive (I do not see a real difference). I also have a Denon DVD-3910 and watching Shrek 2 over HDMI seems to have a slight improvement when the DVD player's output format is set to 1080i instead of 720P.

There's probably something that I do not understand.

Any ideas ?

Paul. Paul, I agree with you that the 720p should give the best picture. What is wierd is in the HMX owners manual it indicates a 1080i will give the best performance when discussing the component (color stream) inputs yet indicates the HDMI input give the best performance when using 720p OR 1080i. If you want my opinion I don't think they do a good job of updating manuals. The previous line of CRT's upconverted everything to 1080i so it's probably taken from previous manuals. I would stick with 720p.

Originally posted by kdog044
Paul, I agree with you that the 720p should give the best picture. What is wierd is in the HMX owners manual it indicates a 1080i will give the best performance when discussing the component (color stream) inputs yet indicates the HDMI input give the best performance when using 720p OR 1080i. If you want my opinion I don't think they do a good job of updating manuals. The previous line of CRT's upconverted everything to 1080i so it's probably taken from previous manuals. I would stick with 720p.

I think they are trying to cover all situations with one statement.

I agree, 720p SHOULD be best, since it matches the TVs resolution (assuming the source does a good job of providing 720).
However, if the viewer is going to use any of the size conversions (theaterwide 1,2,3) then it would work best to give the TV the highest possible input resolution since the TV would then rescale the input to a new output resolution.

My experience has been that 720 looks slightly better (DVD over HDMI) than 1080, but I don't have the TV do any resizing.

So (just my two cents worth)-
If you are going to watch it as presented from the DVD player, use 720.
If you are going to use the screen resizing modes to fill the screen, use 1080.

Now if your source does a better job of providing 720 or 1080, that can influence which looks best as well.

Gary

Good thoughts.

When I watch a DVD, it is always scaled up.

When I watch HD programming on cable, I do not use screen resizing (I use the FULL setting).

When watching SD programming, I use TheaterWide 2.

So, I'll set up for 720P for DVD and HD cable, 480i for SD cable. I have programmed my Marantz 9200 remote with an SD/HD button which effectively selects the 480i or 720P output from the cable box.

Thanks.

Paul

Originally posted by rameshms
Folks, is there a faq on this model ? I hate reading 70+ pages to see what the problems are and how to workaround them if one exists. A simple one page document which lists this would be ideal.

I started this thread and have read every message.
This is my summary:


The HDMI input is not perfected. Some experience shadowing
or image ghosting mostly on HDMI. Yet some get pretty good
HDMI with adjustments. HDMI is not ideal for PC use....but PC output
can be quite good over the component inputs (some VGA's
support this). One person reports that Toshiba admits this problem
and has some kind of fix (a board of some kind) which may be
available in February.

Most everybody else loves the gorgeous picture available thru the
component inputs. The brightness and inky blacks are outstanding.
This model has a good glare resistant screen and works great even
in bright sunny rooms.

Not very many lamp failures or other breakdowns are reported.
Nothing like the Samsung disaster with their HLP line.

Some complain of the gray side bars that are used when
(non-hidef) NTSC (4x3) signals are displayed. People are trying to
fix this thru the various service modes. However the zoom mode that
stretches the 4x3 picture to fill the screen is excellent which
makes the Gray bar issue moot to most.

As far as tweaks and adjustments....very few seem to be needed.
Most (except the very fussy) find an excellent picture over a wide range
of adjustments....no zeal here for the magic settings to look jest right
as it seems to look great "out of the box"

Bottom Line:

HDMI issues aside this model is one of the best of the current crop of HD2+
based models...and maybe the best current bang for the buck. There is talk
of deals in the $2400-$2600 range or lower (for 52") on this model.

It was the biggest Internet purchase I have ever made. I paid ~$2800.
for my unit five months ago. Combined with an HD Tivo my
52hm84 continues to be a daily joy.

Originally posted by Victor Nowik
The HDMI input is not perfected. Some experience shadowing
or image ghosting mostly on HDMI. I'v read all the threads as I am seriously looking at this display. From what I have seen, except for one, ALL of the early complaints about ghosting on HDMI inputs were with the XXHM84 series and mainly the 52HM84. The XXHMX94 line seems to have a lot better success with regards to the HDMI inputs.

Originally posted by kdog044
I'v read all the threads as I am seriously looking at this display. From what I have seen, except for one, ALL of the early complaints about ghosting on HDMI inputs were with the XXHM84 series and mainly the 52HM84. The XXHMX94 line seems to have a lot better success with regards to the HDMI inputs.

I have a 52hmx94 I've had for 9 weeks (well, I sent one back at three weeks, so I've had two of them for a total of 9 weeks).

It has what you would call "ghosting" (pre and post reduced intensity outlines) on the internal menus (picture, inputs etc) as well as on the component and HDMI inputs.
The degree of ghosting is least when a high resolution signal is present OTA HD or HDMI DVD), and worse on SD signals. You can even see ghosting on the TV Guide menu (could probably see it on the guide data if it worked!).

It's not bad enough to affect video at normal viewing distances, but it does make a mess of the DVE higher frequency burst patterns.

It looks like either video peaking, and or scaling artifacts.

While it doesn't appear to degrade video, it would make text from a computer look bad.

Gary

Originally posted by Gwhiz
I have a 52hmx94 I've had for 9 weeks (well, I sent one back at three weeks, so I've had two of them for a total of 9 weeks).

It has what you would call "ghosting" (pre and post reduced intensity outlines) on the internal menus (picture, inputs etc) as well as on the component and HDMI inputs. Gary, I stand corrected. There are now two who don't have the HM84 or HMX84 series. See the thread below.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=471247&perpage=20&highlight=ghosting&pagenumber=1

I know this is a real problem for some people but I wonder if maybe some of the complaints are related to poor cables or connectivity. As I said earlier, I have not heard of any complaints in about a month. I would also be curious as to what the Sharpness setting is at with some of the people reporting problems. If this is set too high, it can cause the same symptoms. I'm also curious as to why you would keep the TV if it has problems.:confused:

Originally posted by kdog044
I know this is a real problem for some people but I wonder if maybe some of the complaints are related to poor cables or connectivity. As I said earlier, I have not heard of any complaints in about a month. I would also be curious as to what the Sharpness setting is at with some of the people reporting problems. If this is set too high, it can cause the same symptoms. I'm also curious as to why you would keep the TV if it has problems.:confused:

I don't think the HDMI ghosting is cables, especially when it shows up on the internally generated menus.

As to why I keep it, well there's several reasons.

As I said, the ghosting doesn't detract from real video, just test patterns (I have computers with real monitors for computer work, so I don't care if it works w/ my computer).

With regard to the TV Guide, Tosh cust serv has played this "it's being fixed" scam for two months.

So, I still have it, and the Guide still doesn't work. I call them every two weeks, and get the same story, they are waiting on the TV Guide pople to download a fix.

Since Monday is two weeks since I last called, maybe I should get more demanding on my next call, after all I'm shure the cust serv person who answers the phone has some control over when/how it gets fixed (yeh, right!).

Gary

may be a silly question, but i just received the 52hm84 yesterday, and have been trying to implement an off-air hdtv tuner to pick up locals. is this possible? the output of the antenna is a coaxial, into ant-2. i cant figure out of the hdtuner is not incorporated into this input, or what is wrong. it is just functioning about the same as a standard analog antenna. is there a switch in the menus i cant find that acknowledges the digital antenna?

the off-air antenna is just a temporary solution till the cable guy can come.

thanks

Originally posted by kdog044
Gary, I stand corrected. There are now two who don't have the HM84 or HMX84 series. See the thread below.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=471247&perpage=20&highlight=ghosting&pagenumber=1

I know this is a real problem for some people but I wonder if maybe some of the complaints are related to poor cables or connectivity. As I said earlier, I have not heard of any complaints in about a month. I would also be curious as to what the Sharpness setting is at with some of the people reporting problems. If this is set too high, it can cause the same symptoms. I'm also curious as to why you would keep the TV if it has problems.:confused:

No complaints from me only because I've learned to live with Component connections and feel that the image is actually superior when hooked up to my Dish 811 receiver. I'm not happy about this but the picture on the set is so good that I'm willing to put up with the issue rather than have an inferior set without ghosting.

yea i agree, the steelers game so far looks amazing over comcast and component! man i love this tv!

Originally posted by whjeffs
I had a guy from the technical research department of Toshiba call me back today about the problems I have been having getting the TV Guide onscreen to work. He said that all of the Toshiba 94 series TVs potentially have this problem and that it's related to the way TV Guide is sending out the signal that the TV cannot recognize it properly. He said TV Guide is aware of the problem and have been working on correcting it. I asked when this would happen and he said hopefully in about 2 weeks. He said nothing different needs to be done with the TV. Once they fix the problem on their end the listings will start showing up.

I'll have to wait and see. The TV Guide On Screen listings work fine on my Panasonic DMR-E85H DVD recorder so the signal is there but the problem with it on the TV may be a blame game between Toshiba and TV Guide.


Jeff

I had the TV Guide set up for a couple weeks to work off my antenna only as an experiment. It didn't load anything through that either until a few days ago listings finally started to show up. So I went through the setup again and changed it back to work off the cable signal. After a day I was able to select my cable provider from the list. Then after another day listings started to show up. So far it seems to be working like it was when I first got the TV. Yesterday (Saturday) I had Saturdays and Sundays listings, then nothing for Monday thru Friday, then listings for next Saturday. Today it has Sunday's listings, nothing for Monday thru Friday, then listings for next Saturday and Sunday. I'll keep checking it to see if it ever loads the full 8 days of listings. I don't know if this means that TV Guide has finally fixed the problem or not.


Jeff

Originally posted by pilgrimshoes
may be a silly question, but i just received the 52hm84 yesterday, and have been trying to implement an off-air hdtv tuner to pick up locals. is this possible? the output of the antenna is a coaxial, into ant-2. i cant figure out of the hdtuner is not incorporated into this input, or what is wrong. it is just functioning about the same as a standard analog antenna. is there a switch in the menus i cant find that acknowledges the digital antenna?

the off-air antenna is just a temporary solution till the cable guy can come.

thanks

XX84 series sets don't have OTA high def capability.
Only XX94s have the ATSC tuner required for this.

You have to wait on your cable box.

Gary

this is probably buried somewhere in this thread, but i'm having trouble finding the answer to my question. would someone mind sharing what the key differences are between the 52hm84, 52hmx84, 52hm94, and 52hmx94? i understand the 94 series has cable card and integrated OTA hd tuners, and that the "hmx" series has a second hdmi input. is there any thing different (screen material, anti-reflective coating, internal components, etc.) that would affect PQ between these sets?

also, is there any difference between the above sets and the 46hm84 and 46hm94 in terms of PQ? i noticed the 46" doesn't come in an "hmx" version for some reason. i just wanted to confirm whether there is any difference in PQ between these sets other than screen size. i saw a toshiba 52hmx84 today and the PQ and colors were fantastic looking. too bad it's too big for my room.

thanks for your help!

Originally posted by aircasper
this is probably buried somewhere in this thread, but i'm having trouble finding the answer to my question. would someone mind sharing what the key differences are between the 52hm84, 52hmx84, 52hm94, and 52hmx94? Scroll to krc's post in the thread below.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=438276&perpage=20&pagenumber=25

Originally posted by aircasper
i understand the 94 series has cable card and integrated OTA hd tuners, and that the "hmx" series has a second hdmi input. is there any thing different (screen material, anti-reflective coating, internal components, etc.) that would affect PQ between these sets? The other main difference between the HM and HMX series is the black bezel with acrylic cover as opposed to the grey one. Major differences between the 84 and 94 series are the optical output, IEEE-1394 connections, Memory Card Slot (SD, SM, MS, CF,& MM), integrated TV-guide, and support for the Symbio DVR. Picture quality should be the same for all the sets although the integrated HD tuner may theoretically provide better PQ than having to use a STB.

thanks kdog! very helpful info. it sounds like the PQ should be the same between the 46hm84 and the higher end and larger models, which is what i was most concerned about. the PQ and the colors on the 52hmx84 that i saw today were very impressive, especially when comparing with the LG-built toshiba 44nhm84. i was concerned that the cinema series (i.e., hmx) or the 94 series might have a better screen or something like that, but it sounds like the differences are primarily inputs and tuners, plus the fancy (and better looking) bezel on the hmx series. too bad they don't make a hmx for the 46" model.

i don't need all the additional inputs or the built-in tuners, so i'll be considering the 46hm84 to save a few dollars. just wish they didn't have those side speakers!

now i just have to figure out whether the hdmi input on this set is working properly or not, as i see some posts of complaints regarding "ghosting" :confused: any thoughts on that one?

Originally posted by sharonf
Hi again Julio,
Do you have a model number for the Tripp-Lite? I started looking at those yesterday too. I most likely will have to order online. The town I live in doesn't have any big Computers and Audio/Video stores so if I do find what I want here I usually have to pay a premium price. I saved $1800 by buying my TV online rather than locally. We have very few power failures here (I live in the desert where it very seldom rains) but we do have an occasional one. Would you still recommend a UPS also?

Well, I'm very picky regarding the protection of my equipment, so I would say yes, get a UPS. It would provide for more durability regarding the TV's bulb. Also, the UPS cost has come down a lot, so it could be a more practical thing to buy.

But even so, if by occasional you mean like once every other month, then a good regulator can work, and should be cheaper. I don't have that model number on hand, but I wouldn't expect it to exist, I bought it in 1995 and I would think there are newer ones substituting. Do a search for "voltage regulators" and make sure it goes over the watts you need, that way it'll work fresher and you'll have some extra watts for future use.

Tonight I'll check the model I have and post it probably tomorrow. Don't forget your coax line protector for cable or satelite signals.

a few questions about PC usage.

im looking at getting the 52HM but if i REALLY want to hook up a PC, should i look elsewhere?

if i can fandangle it to work, can this tv display 50/50 split screen HD and internet at the same time?

Originally posted by swirvin
a few questions about PC usage.

im looking at getting the 52HM but if i REALLY want to hook up a PC, should i look elsewhere?

if i can fandangle it to work, can this tv display 50/50 split screen HD and internet at the same time?

No - at least not on the xxHM84 models. You can split 50/50, but one of the inputs has to be SD. The other can be HD, but not both.

z

I purchased the DVE disk but was having a hard time using it, so I mainly set everything to how it looked to my eyes. Then I rented a DVD with the THX Optimizer in it (Monster Inc.) and tried using that to help tweak my settings. I didn't have the THX glasses but the blue filter form the DVE disk worked just fine. I just had to make a couple of small changes to my settings after using the THX Optimizer but it made a noticeable difference. Even the SD channels look pretty good now! I even watched Monsters Inc. all the way though and it looked great!

well, after months and months of agonizing, i took futureshop's bait of 36 months interest free and bought the 52HM84!!

it'll be here on thursday. that'll give me a week to decide on a HD source. im not sure if i'll sign up with my sattellite company or go OTA for the superbowl.

Originally posted by whjeffs
I had the TV Guide set up for a couple weeks to work off my antenna only as an experiment. It didn't load anything through that either until a few days ago listings finally started to show up. So I went through the setup again and changed it back to work off the cable signal. After a day I was able to select my cable provider from the list. Then after another day listings started to show up. So far it seems to be working like it was when I first got the TV. Yesterday (Saturday) I had Saturdays and Sundays listings, then nothing for Monday thru Friday, then listings for next Saturday. Today it has Sunday's listings, nothing for Monday thru Friday, then listings for next Saturday and Sunday. I'll keep checking it to see if it ever loads the full 8 days of listings. I don't know if this means that TV Guide has finally fixed the problem or not.


Jeff

All listings gone again. Listings that were on there already for later this week are gone.
Just when I thought it was working.......

I guess I'll call Toshiba again today if I have time. I doubt it will fix anything but atleast the problem is being documented. If they can't get it working right I think I should be refunded the price difference between the 94 and 84 series. The TV Guide feature is the reason I bought this TV instead of the 52HMX84 or Mitsubishi 725 series.



Jeff

Jeff,

I have the 52HMX94 and TV Guide was giving me problems until recently. It would just lose the listings and ask me to pick my cable provider again. It hasn't gone out for probably a week or more and it looks different now too. Before all the programs were in blue, now some are green and another color as well. (can't remember the color... bah, mornings...)


Anyway, it looks as if TV Guide changed some and since the change I haven't had any issues. I'm not saying it's fixed but just wanted to share how mine is acting.

Shaner1,

I have the same model... Are you getting the TV guide from the cable box, or the cablecard?? Mine has yet to work and I have Comcast (unfortunately).

Dan

I have wide open west cable and I don't use the cablecard or box. I just have the cable line running right into the TV. I also have an antenna hooked up to it and it populates as well.

Originally posted by sharonf
I purchased the DVE disk but was having a hard time using it, so I mainly set everything to how it looked to my eyes. Then I rented a DVD with the THX Optimizer in it (Monster Inc.) and tried using that to help tweak my settings. I didn't have the THX glasses but the blue filter form the DVE disk worked just fine. I just had to make a couple of small changes to my settings after using the THX Optimizer but it made a noticeable difference. Even the SD channels look pretty good now! I even watched Monsters Inc. all the way though and it looked great!


Hi Sharonf,

I got a 52HMX84 model and I am very happy with my regular standard Satellite Digital (not HD) signal. I mean it is very good especially on those sports channel and pay per view Movies channel (BTW I live in Toronto, Canada and I am using Bell Express Vu sattelite - the signal I am getting is about 93% - 95% and I think this helps a lot).

Anyway , please post the result of your THX Optimizer settings. I am really interesting to know how it goes.

Thanks

Originally posted by foreverblueleafs
Hi Sharonf,

I got a 52HMX84 model and I am very happy with my regular standard Satellite Digital (not HD) signal. I mean it is very good especially on those sports channel and pay per view Movies channel (BTW I live in Toronto, Canada and I am using Bell Express Vu sattelite - the signal I am getting is about 93% - 95% and I think this helps a lot).

Anyway , please post the result of your THX Optimizer settings. I am really interesting to know how it goes.

Thanks

The settings I got from the THX Optimizer surprised me but they are working out well for most channels. I do change the settings...especially the brightness for the HD channels. Since the color is not consistent from one channel to another I do have to adjust the tint on a couple of channels. Here is what I have:

Contrast 65
Brightness 35
Color 55
Tint 0
Sharpness 42

Originally posted by Shaner1
Jeff,

I have the 52HMX94 and TV Guide was giving me problems until recently. It would just lose the listings and ask me to pick my cable provider again. It hasn't gone out for probably a week or more and it looks different now too. Before all the programs were in blue, now some are green and another color as well. (can't remember the color... bah, mornings...)


Anyway, it looks as if TV Guide changed some and since the change I haven't had any issues. I'm not saying it's fixed but just wanted to share how mine is acting.

This time when it had started working for me again I also noticed the different colors of the listings. There should be a different color for movies, sports, etc.

Has yours loaded the full 8 days of listings?

Something else to add to the mix now is a cablecard. My cable company called today to let me know the cards are finally in so I will be getting that installed next week. They did ask what brand TV I had and whether or not it was high def. I really hope the TV Guide is working by the time they come out.


Jeff

Called Toshiba this morning about TV Guide problems again. Now they tell me the TV Guide people anticipate having a fix downloaded in 24 - 48 hours.


Jeff

Originally posted by whjeffs
Called Toshiba this morning about TV Guide problems again. Now they tell me the TV Guide people anticipate having a fix downloaded in 24 - 48 hours.

Jeff

Just to be clear on this, let me restate the solution -- The fix is a change in how the data is formatted for broadcast, so that the latest TV's (like our Toshibas), can receive it reliably. It is not an update to the TVGOS firmware inside the TV.

Do I have that correct?

I've spent some more time with the TV. Had it about two weeks now. Overall, I think the picture quality is great. I don't seem to be getting any ghosting over the HDMI port, at least not as it has been described in this thread.

My main concern, and I'm surprised more people haven't mentioned this, is the absolutely horrible pixel break up you get when a camera slowly pans over a scene. It's happened on a variety of sources from HD, SD, DVD, etc. I was watching Friday Night Lights and thought the image was incredibly good, yet the panning caused such horrible pixelization that it took me out of the movie. Another great example of this is on Gladiator, at the start, as Maximus is walking down the line. Watch his face. It really breaks down. Do other users have this issue? Is there anything that can be done to minimize it?

Sounds like a bad DVD or DVD player or signal from your cable and or OTA issue to me.

Well, I've tried 3 different DVD players, tons of different movies, HD satellite.. and it's always there. Some programs are worse than others.

Is there anyone with Gladiator that can put it in? The easiest scene to spot it in is during chapter one when Russell walks down the line. Just watch the faces of the people looking at him, and his own face. It really "ghosts" and breaks up on my display.

I've put the same movie on a different tv and it didn't exhibit the same behavior.

It's called Temporal dithering and the toshiba is one of the worst for this.

It's weird because it handles fast movevment realy well, but slow to medium movement like camera pans is pretty nasty some times.

Every details on a guys face or fixed object gets all pixelated. It gets separeted in two colors, red and blue, if you look closely.

I have seen this effect on a Samsung HLN but it was less then on the toshibas.

I still love my 52HM84 even with this problem, but i would believe it could be a deal breaker for some....

*** Edited *** Double post cause by server traffic or something....

Originally posted by TheGrub
It's called Temporal dithering and the toshiba is one of the worst for this.
Could you provide some references of this? I did a search and it seems to be related to FPD's and essentially DLP but could not find any reference to one brand being better than others. It also seems that the newer light engines have redued this problem considerably.

Just want to point out something about the grey bars on either side of the screen. I am assuming that for everyone that bought this TV bought it because they are getting a HDTV or at least a digital cable box (or satellite). I have the SA model, however I have found out that all HDTV and most digital cable boxes have an option for the color of the sidebars. I have set mine to "dark" since I first got it and I don't see grey bars on any channels, they are all black (I watch SD programming in NATURAL mode, don't like to stretch at all). So there is your solution folks. For those who have regular cable, I suggest switching back to your CRT as there is no point to getting this kind of monitor for regular cable.

Originally posted by Trypt
So there is your solution folks. For those who have regular cable, I suggest switching back to your CRT as there is no point to getting this kind of monitor for regular cable. What you are forgetting is some people bought these with integrated tuners and cable card technology to eliminate the STB. Also, typically the SD programs will have better PQ if using the TV tuner and not the STB. It should be a menu option on the TV as the whole purpose of grey bars was to prevent burn-in on CRT displays something DLP's don't suffer from.;)

Yesterday the Motorola Signal Booster that I ordered arrived. I hooked it up right away and it really made a big improvement in the picture. Almost all of my digital channels look great and even the analog channels look a lot better. The picture is stronger and a lot clearer. and the colors are better. I still have a splitter hooked up to split the signal between the TV and cable box and the analog channels on the input hooked directly to the TV are especially clear. It's the best $40 I've ever spent!

kdog, thats a good point about the actual reason of grey bars, however, there must be another reason, perhaps its cheaper? I mean it can't just be asthetics, Toshiba must have known that people wouldn't like grey bars. I was talking about the hm84 series, i forgot to mention. But you make a good point.

Originally posted by sharonf
Yesterday the Motorola Signal Booster that I ordered arrived. I hooked it up right away and it really made a big improvement in the picture. Almost all of my digital channels look great and even the analog channels look a lot better. The picture is stronger and a lot clearer. and the colors are better. I still have a splitter hooked up to split the signal between the TV and cable box and the analog channels on the input hooked directly to the TV are especially clear. It's the best $40 I've ever spent!

See, it works...good for you sharonf.

OK, my Tripp-Lite voltage regulator/surge protector is a Line Conditioner LC-1200 (1200 watts). There's another term to search with: line conditioner.

Whatever it costs, you'll feel the same...best ever spent.

Originally posted by maddogFool
Just to be clear on this, let me restate the solution -- The fix is a change in how the data is formatted for broadcast, so that the latest TV's (like our Toshibas), can receive it reliably. It is not an update to the TVGOS firmware inside the TV.

Do I have that correct?

Yeah that sounds like the way they explained it to me. You would think they could have gotten this right before they started selling products with the TV Guide feature built in. The Gemstar/TV Guide listings have been available for a long time and worked reliably in other products. My Panasonic DMR-E85H DVD/HDD recorder receives the listings fine. Now these TVs come out and have a problem with the data and they blame TV Guide? Somehow that just doesn't seem right. It's no wonder Mitsubishi dropped the TV Guide feature from the 725 series TVs.


Jeff

I admit I haven't read this whole thread, so the answer may be here already.

Does anyone know if the Toshibas convert the digital input (HDMI) to analog before reconverting it to digital for display? Apparently all of the Sony models do this, and many other brands do as well. Surprised me to learn this (in the DVD forum upconverting DVD player sticky thread, btw). Apparently Sammys are one of the lines that keep it purely digital.

So - does the Tosh do this D-A-D conversion, or is it straight digital? Thanks!

Originally posted by Trypt
kdog, thats a good point about the actual reason of grey bars, however, there must be another reason, perhaps its cheaper? I mean it can't just be asthetics, Toshiba must have known that people wouldn't like grey bars. I was talking about the hm84 series, i forgot to mention. But you make a good point.

My suspicion (it's only a guess) is that the grey bars make the vertical edge bowing inherent in DLP's look less severe. I think your eye is less likely to notice it against the gray, versus the stark contrast of the black.

lets start up a tweaks forum like the samsungs have, so we can share picture settings and what not.

Originally posted by Engine Joe
I admit I haven't read this whole thread, so the answer may be here already.

Does anyone know if the Toshibas convert the digital input (HDMI) to analog before reconverting it to digital for display? Apparently all of the Sony models do this, and many other brands do as well. Surprised me to learn this (in the DVD forum upconverting DVD player sticky thread, btw). Apparently Sammys are one of the lines that keep it purely digital.

So - does the Tosh do this D-A-D conversion, or is it straight digital? Thanks!

From what my understanding of HDMI is, thats impossible. It's all one digital cable, even if the resolution isnt HD

Originally posted by caltvdude
From what my understanding of HDMI is, thats impossible. It's all one digital cable, even if the resolution isnt HD

No, I think you're misunderstanding me. It has nothing to do with the cable, it's what the Tosh does with the signal once its inside the TV.

Read this thread, starting with post 8 (from umr). That's when it heads into a discussion of HD RPTVs that convert HDMI signals to analog.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=500957&highlight=Sony+analog

Originally posted by Trypt
kdog, thats a good point about the actual reason of grey bars, however, there must be another reason, perhaps its cheaper? I mean it can't just be asthetics, Toshiba must have known that people wouldn't like grey bars. I was talking about the hm84 series, i forgot to mention. But you make a good point.

Gray side bars are a holdover from the CRT days and make absolutely no sense with a DLP set. The purpose of the bars with a CRT was to allow for SLIGHT burn-in whenever SD programming was present. This would allow the CRT screen to age uniformly. Otherwise, with continued black side bars it was possible for the center of the creen to burn in normally while the edges remained "virgin". When you finally switched to a true 16 x 9 program, the center of the screen would be burned-in while the edges might look different due to non-use...sort of a reverse-burn-in. By sending a medium-gray signal to the edges, wear would be for uniform.

Again, totally meaningless on a DLP. Even most LCD sets allow the user to switch the gray to black via simple menu option.

Dumb, dumb, dumb......

What I don't understand is why I sometimes have mid-grey bars on my 46HM84, and sometimes it's actually pretty dark, like a light-to-mid black. Does it depend on source?

Engine Joe:

What you described with the Digital --> Analog --> Digital conversion is how I understand the Toshiba set works (i.e. yes, it does that), which is why we can't get a 1:1 pixel map with a HTPC.

Let me know if you find otherwise.

Despite this, I still found the Toshiba's picture to be superior to the Samsung (notwithstanding the loss of the "pure" digital signal).

I looked at the diagram and I guess I don't see it. I don't know which model this is (obviously not a XXHMX94 or XXHMX84 since there is only one HMDI input) but I only see a A/D chip and a color decoder before what I assume is the deinterlacer. I'm not an EE so perhaps I am missing something. If a digital signal is converted to analog wouldn't there need to be a D/A chip? The other thing I am confused about is the MST9883 appears to be an LCD A/D controller so why would it be used in a DLP?:confused:

Originally posted by kdog044
I looked at the diagram and I guess I don't see it. I don't know which model this is (obviously not a XXHMX94 or XXHMX84 since there is only one HMDI input) but I only see a A/D chip and a color decoder before what I assume is the deinterlacer. I'm not an EE so perhaps I am missing something. If a digital signal is converted to analog wouldn't there need to be a D/A chip? The other thing I am confused about is the MST9883 appears to be an LCD A/D controller so why would it be used in a DLP?:confused:

Hi;

Where are you getting this info?
Do you have a SM?
I am a EE, sure would like to get a SM for XXHMX94.

Gary.

Originally posted by kdog044
I looked at the diagram and I guess I don't see it. I don't know which model this is (obviously not a XXHMX94 or XXHMX84 since there is only one HMDI input) but I only see a A/D chip and a color decoder before what I assume is the deinterlacer. I'm not an EE so perhaps I am missing something. If a digital signal is converted to analog wouldn't there need to be a D/A chip? The other thing I am confused about is the MST9883 appears to be an LCD A/D controller so why would it be used in a DLP?:confused:

Kdog, I wouldn't worry about that MST9883 chip. Yes, the Mstar Semiconductor product description says it is for SXGA LCD monitors, but in truth it is simply a triple ADC made for digitizing analog RGB signals. It is not for use only in an LCD monitor.

I'm not sure which schematics you are looking at, but as an EE, I would expect that the digital signal from HDMI arrives at the set and is interpreted to turn some of the DLP mirrors on and some off to represent the picture, which ultimately is seen in analog form by the human eye. In this way, HDMI (and DVI) are seen as "purely digital" because they do not arrive at the set in analog form, needing to be converted via ADC before being used by the DLP chip.

Hope this helps?
Sean

I like the size and the price on the 46HM84, but I don't know if the problem with the HDMI connector already fix on this set by Toshiba.

never mind. You're talking about the ghosting issue.

Well, I've got the 46HM84, bought Dec 31, and I have seen no ghosting.

Originally posted by Gwhiz
Hi;

Where are you getting this info?
Do you have a SM?
I am a EE, sure would like to get a SM for XXHMX94.

Gary. Sorry, I was referring to the diagrams posted in this thread. I don't know what model it is but it's not an HMX84 or HMX94 as it only has one HDMI input. If I had to fathom a guess I would say it is the HM84 as the HM94 has digital audio output. I guess the inference was that the HDMI signal used the same circuitry as the analog (thus doesn't sat in digital form) but I just don't see it. There are signals in the path that bypass the AD converter and go directly to the color decoder.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=486365&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

Originally posted by mightytaco
Engine Joe:

What you described with the Digital --> Analog --> Digital conversion is how I understand the Toshiba set works (i.e. yes, it does that), which is why we can't get a 1:1 pixel map with a HTPC.

Let me know if you find otherwise.

Despite this, I still found the Toshiba's picture to be superior to the Samsung (notwithstanding the loss of the "pure" digital signal).

Pardon my ignorance, maybe I haven't read the appropiate source, but I don't see why digital signal would need to change to analog and back for the display to work. Certainly RCA and SVideo signals should be digitized, and also, maybe some conversions are made to the signal for the chip to do it's thing...but analog? That doesn't make sense to me.

Well guys I went ahead and ordered a 52HM94 and a 160HD4....I just wanted to thank all you guys for your help in deciding which tv was for me.

Thanks again,
Brad

Dammit! My tvguide went on the fritz again. Everything was working great-I started to get the color coded listings(like other have mentioned & something I havent seen before) & then when I turn on the set today-whammo!!, nothing. Tvguide is dead again. Im supposed to pick up my Symbio tomorrow. A lot of good that will do me since its operation hinges on the tvguide

Originally posted by Trypt
For those who have regular cable, I suggest switching back to your CRT as there is no point to getting this kind of monitor for regular cable.
I'll repeat the message for those who don't want to dig through this thread: buy a signal amplifier. I used to consider the analog channels the weak point on this set, just because they looked so bad. Since buying the amplifier I've found they rival the digital channels and often are crystal clear.

--T.

Originally posted by tristanc
I'll repeat the message for those who don't want to dig through this thread: buy a signal amplifier. I used to consider the analog channels the weak point on this set, just because they looked so bad. Since buying the amplifier I've found they rival the digital channels and often are crystal clear.

--T.

I agree! I added a Motorola Signal Booster a few days ago and it made a word of difference. :p

Sharon

is the signal booster only for analog signals?

Originally posted by aircasper
is the signal booster only for analog signals?

No, it enhances analog and digital picture quality. My digital channels now look even better also.

Sharon

Well, just set my new 52" tosh. All I have right now is DVD, and the first movie I tried was mosters Inc. Fantastic! and then it was all downhill from there. Anything that was actually filmed (non cartoon)had a horrible graininess to it. Colours were still fine, however, and I get the feeling that the screen window effect I'm seeing from most DVDs is my only problem. Admitingly, I'm using cheaper end component cables (RCA -- not a/v, they're RCA brand RGB components $40). HD cable is coming tommorrow. If that's fine, I'll upgrade the components and see if that helps. The DVD is a progessive sony 575. Anybody who knows about grainness: do I upgrade the components, the DVD to 720p or both? -- the latter may not be an option for me at this point. can components and/or 720p DVD player make that much of a diff and eliminate my problem? Any ideas?

Originally posted by newbuyer1
Admitingly, I'm using cheaper end component cables (RCA -- not a/v, they're RCA brand RGB components $40). HD cable is coming tommorrow. If that's fine, I'll upgrade the components and see if that helps. The DVD is a progessive sony 575. Anybody who knows about grainness: do I upgrade the components, the DVD to 720p or both? -- the latter may not be an option for me at this point. can components and/or 720p DVD player make that much of a diff and eliminate my problem? Any ideas? The first suggestion I have is to buy Avia or Digital Video Essentials (both should be available through Amazon) and calibrate your set on your component input. You will most likely be adjusting all of the picture settings (Contrast, Brightness, Color, Tint, Sharpness). Also, make sure they are COMPONENT cables. You don't have to spend a fortune on cables (I have a $40 set from Acoustic Research) but they do need to be of decent quality construction. Here is an example of decent cables for $20.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=181-670

Here is another one for less than $30 from RAM. Look at part number DV8601.

http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/comp-video.html#av

You can get a better PQ in some cases with HDMI capable upconverting players but you should definitely be able to get a decent picture with what you have.

Pardon my ignorance, maybe I haven't read the appropiate source, but I don't see why digital signal would need to change to analog and back for the display to work. Certainly RCA and SVideo signals should be digitized, and also, maybe some conversions are made to the signal for the chip to do it's thing...but analog? That doesn't make sense to me.

Julio Bro - read this thread, starting with post 8 (from umr). That's when it heads into a discussion of HD RPTVs that convert HDMI signals to analog.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...ght=Sony+analog

Thanks K-dog. The only issue is that I'm too impatient to wait for online order, but Monster has the entire retail market cornered. You said acoustic research are pretty good? I do see those around at the stores. maybe I'll try them.

Originally posted by newbuyer1
Thanks K-dog. The only issue is that I'm too impatient to wait for online order, but Monster has the entire retail market cornered. You said acoustic research are pretty good? I do see those around at the stores. maybe I'll try them. Try Best Buy I think they carry them. Here is the model number AP091. If you don't notice a difference you can always return them.;)

any one post up their pic settings?

I notice when I'm watching something and the camera moves around that I get an annoying blurred affect and loose almost all the detail. This is especially noticeable when watching Walking Tall. Anyone know why this is??

Originally posted by Boogie7910
I notice when I'm watching something and the camera moves around that I get an annoying blurred affect and loose almost all the detail. This is especially noticeable when watching Walking Tall. Anyone know why this is?? Someone earlier mentioned this is called Temporal Dithering. It is supposedly a issue with fixed panel displays like plasma and DLP but I haven't noticed more than a few complaints on this. Here is a definition of it.

Temporal Dithering
A source of image noise for displays that use a digital intensity control, such as plasmas and DLPs, is Pulse Width Modulation (PWM), which generates the gray scale by rapidly switching the pixels between on and off states and varying the percentage of time spent in each state. The eye responds to the time-averaged brightness of the pixel. This process is a form of temporal dithering. The switching frequency is fairly high, typically up to 60,000 clock cycles per second (60 kHz). That's generally too fast for the eye to notice, but at low intensities a pixel will spend most of its time in the off state, so the occasional switch to the on state becomes noticeable as a form of switching noise. With this method it's possible to produce between 8- and 10-bit digital intensity scales, with 256 to 1024 levels, at standard video frame rates. In some implementations, the PWM cycle time extends down to 24 frames per second (fps)--lower than the 60 fps rate of the video signal. This increases the number of intensity levels that can be generated but increases the visibility of the PWM noise patterns and may also introduce some visible flicker into the image.

Originally posted by sayanythingrock
any one post up their pic settings?

I am still tweaking my setting but here is what I have them set at now:

Contrast 65
Brightness 40
Color 55
Tint 0
Sharpness 42

That seems to work well for most channels. For HD channels I increase the contrast and brightness a wee bit. The channel I'm having the most trouble with is Fox (not HD). The colors on FOX seem to be overly saturated and the skin colors have an orange tinge to them and I have to turn the tint way down. That seems to be the case with Fox with every TV in the house though so I don't think it has anything to do with the Toshiba. Has anyone else noticed this with Fox? I'm wondering if it my cable company.

Thanks to all that have posted info on this form I final got wife to sign off on a new 52hm84, get the set delivered this Weds day!!:)

Hello to all..
I am first time contributor, but have been lurking for awhile.
I purchased a 62hm84 and now have about 150 hours on it. I have been annoyed by the "red push" that seems to be a part of this model( maybe Toshiba in general) Using AVIA I was able to get the picture ok but never as good as I hoped for. OK is not good enough for a set costing this much. In the hopes to overcome the red push I called in an ISF calibrator who spent almost 12 hours setting up the set( long story). Using their equipment they were able to get the settings correct and were able to bring the color temperature to almost 6500 Kelvins. I had initial reading of 13692 to 29778 Kelvins in the various IRE windows. My color temps are now between 6978 to 7335. After addressing the color temp, contrast and brightness needed to be configured. It appears the only way to get theses settings correct was to go into the service menu to make the adjustments. I have had my HDMI,DVD and HD inputs calibrated. The settings are close for all three inputs due to the fact that all the inputs react to service menu tweaks( or so I am told ). Here are my current settings( remember that I initially had to setup contrast/brightness through the service mode.
Brightness 54
Contrast 57
Color 80
Tint R1
Sharpness 0

The Technician I spoke to called someone who is both ISF Certified and a Toshiba technician and was told that it is not uncommon to enter the service mode to get proper bright/cont. settings. He also warned that Toshiba has not released a setting to fix Red Push. He stated Do not touch anything that is related to the color wheel.

That being said the colors on my set are unbelievable but skin tones are still a little red for my liking. I just pretend everyone on screen has just come back from Hawaii.

I do not have the guts to enter the service mode myself and after watching these guys, I am glad that I had them do it.

Rob

Originally posted by Rob Mann
I have been annoyed by the "red push" that seems to be a part of this model( maybe Toshiba in general) He also warned that Toshiba has not released a setting to fix Red Push. He stated Do not touch anything that is related to the color wheel.

That being said the colors on my set are unbelievable but skin tones are still a little red for my liking. I just pretend everyone on screen has just come back from Hawaii.
Rob

That's interesting. I've had a 52hmx94 for about 3 months now (11/15/04).
I sent the first one back because it was too green after three weeks.
The one I have now also suffers from being green, but only on OTA HD (some channels) and cable SD.

When I was using DVD over component I had to set the tint 3-4 steps towards red. Now that I'm using the Sony 975 (which is weak on green on HDMI) I can set tint in the middle.
On cable SD I have to set the tint to 20 (almost halfway to the end) to get people to not look green. On OTA, it varies, a couple of channels tends to green, one doesn't. But on most HD and SD, frequently blonds have a green tint to their hair, but to fix this you have to set the tint so that everyone looks sunburned.

When I look at the 52hm84s at BB, I can see that gold/yellow looks slightly green as well.

I am so amazed that yours had red push, yet mine has excessive green.

The setup menu doesn't seem to have anything to adjust the color decoder, so I don't see how it can be fixed.
I tend to run lower color settings (around 35-40, things look too colorful up at 50), but even so the color of faces is so unpredictable.

I'm amazed yours can look realistic at a color setting of 80 (I realize tastes are different, but I don't find mine looks realistic at 50).

It's sort of a love/hate relationship, depending on whats on the TV.

Did yours have too much red even before he dropped the temperature?




Gary

Just got a new 52HMX84 delivered today and it is incredible. HD is gorgeous and SD is better than I expected. I do have one problem though. Other than the PBS station, I cannot get the full 16:9 screen on the HD channels. On ESPN, ABC, etc. I get gray bars. I have a Comcast Motorola 6200 HD cable box and have a component connection between it and the Toshiba ColorStream HD1 input. I have the Motorola box set to 16:9 and 720p incoming.

Any suggestions??

Gary
Right out the box I felt it was too much on the green side as well. After adjusting with AVIA and turning down the color to 50 it looked good, but that is when I noticed everything was favored with red.
You are right about being colorful, I thought that too at first. I think having good contrast and bright and vivid colors almost gives a 3D look. It does look realistic but it took getting used to. I think the colors were washed out before.

As for the color decoder..that is done through the service menu but Toshiba will not give out the proper settings.

Rob

Originally posted by pilotct
Just got a new 52HMX84 delivered today and it is incredible. HD is gorgeous and SD is better than I expected. I do have one problem though. Other than the PBS station, I cannot get the full 16:9 screen on the HD channels. On ESPN, ABC, etc. I get gray bars. I have a Comcast Motorola 6200 HD cable box and have a component connection between it and the Toshiba ColorStream HD1 input. I have the Motorola box set to 16:9 and 720p incoming.

Any suggestions??
Not all broadcasts on the HD channells are HD all the time. INHD and PBS are but most of the networks only do HD on prime time programs (not all) and special programming (like sports etc.).

Originally posted by kdog044
Someone earlier mentioned this is called Temporal Dithering. It is supposedly a issue with fixed panel displays like plasma and DLP but I haven't noticed more than a few complaints on this. Here is a definition of it.

Temporal Dithering
A source of image noise for displays that use a digital intensity control, such as plasmas and DLPs, is Pulse Width Modulation (PWM), which generates the gray scale by rapidly switching the pixels between on and off states and varying the percentage of time spent in each state. The eye responds to the time-averaged brightness of the pixel. This process is a form of temporal dithering. The switching frequency is fairly high, typically up to 60,000 clock cycles per second (60 kHz). That's generally too fast for the eye to notice, but at low intensities a pixel will spend most of its time in the off state, so the occasional switch to the on state becomes noticeable as a form of switching noise. With this method it's possible to produce between 8- and 10-bit digital intensity scales, with 256 to 1024 levels, at standard video frame rates. In some implementations, the PWM cycle time extends down to 24 frames per second (fps)--lower than the 60 fps rate of the video signal. This increases the number of intensity levels that can be generated but increases the visibility of the PWM noise patterns and may also introduce some visible flicker into the image.

Any brave soul know if there is a setting for PWM in the service menu? I love the TV but this pixel break up during panning really bugs me.

Originally posted by jesyjames
Any brave soul know if there is a setting for PWM in the service menu? I love the TV but this pixel break up during panning really bugs me.

Don't think that's what you are seeing.
There are two effects that occur during panning of "busy" scenes.
The display scaler will low pass filter the edges of codeing blocks, which makes pictures look softer during pans.
The "pixellation" during pans, or when you have lots of movement (such as pictures of trees with the leaves moving in the breeze) is because there is not a high enough data rate to update all the changes in the image.
This is usually worse in satellite HD (they do lots of compression and send as little data as possible = more channels), next worse on cable HD (same reason), and seems to be best on OTA HD.
The image needing more data rate than is available causes the codeing blocks to become visible, as there is not enugh data to describe the image changes in real time. And the missing information fills in quickly when the image stops moving. It will not occur in simple images that are easy to encode, or images that are still.


Gary

Originally posted by Gwhiz

The image needing more data rate than is available causes the codeing blocks to become visible, as there is not enugh data to describe the image changes in real time. And the missing information fills in quickly when the image stops moving. It will not occur in simple images that are easy to encode, or images that are still.
Gary

I understand what you are saying and it makes sense. If that were the case, though, how come when I play the same dvd scene on my computer w/ lcd monitor or on my Sony crt, I don't see the same symptoms? It would seem like that if the encoding doesn't have enough information it wouldn't have enough information for the other displays..

I would say that I do notice it more on HD D* channels than on DVDS, but I definetly still see it on DVDs. Gladiator and Friday Night Lights are really bad when it comes to the pixel break up. Also, Xbox games where you manually rotate the camera look horrible. The whole background loses any definition and texture and it just smears. It's almost exclusively when the camera pans on any source. Say there are two people having a conversation and the camera pans from one face to the other.. you can go ahead and expect the image to really degrade as it goes from one to the other.

Okay lots to report..

I've had 2 full days with my 52" TV now. Some have read and responded over the last couple days to my post regarding grainess. Newer DVDs were okay, while older (for example non-digitally mastered were awful. Viewing distance was about 11 Ft, so that wasn't the issue.
I then upgraded my cheapie components to monster. Marginal difference. My last recourse before i returned the TV was to upgrade my DVD player. I had a progressive sony 575, and traded for a HD LG that does 720p. Presto. Older DVDs were MUCH better (still not perfect, but hey.., and newer ones like Spidey 2 were AMAZING! I also watched Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow tonight and all I can say is WOW. (rainbow issues however, see below).
A DVI cable came with the DVD and I bought a HDMI attachment. Didn't like it. enhanced PQ, yes. But also enhances the weaknesses in flawed sources. settled on the monster components as best-of-all-worlds type choice.

I also got HD yesterday, and it's absolutely jaw-dropping even with basic RGB components (not enough HD content on cable to justify more expensive ones. After the Super Bowl, there's not much to watch for a while, anyway.). I was also suprised by the SD. Yes, a handful of channels are unwatchable, but most are comparible to my CRT, and a few others are excellent.

I don't see any "clay faces," distorted pixles, ghosting etc. But my wife did see rainbows during Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow DVD tonight. Only after she mentioned it, did I see them when I looked away quickly. She claims she saw them ON SCREEN, without looking away. She didn't see one during spidey 2 last night. Someone a few posts ago mentioned he sees them during high contrast B&W-type scenes. Well, this whole movie is CGI, filmed like that style on purpose, so it makes sense. I'll be honest, though, if that's the worst of the rainbows, they don't bother me.

So a lot of trial and error with components, HDMI, DVD, but in the end I'm VERY happy with this set. I havn't even begun to play with my PQ levels yet. There's room for improvement for bright, day-time scenes. But I don't want to mess up the dark-night aspects I have so far. (Blacks/shadows are just incredible on this set).

Anyway, thanks for all those who have helped with answering my questions

Originally posted by jesyjames
I understand what you are saying and it makes sense. If that were the case, though, how come when I play the same dvd scene on my computer w/ lcd monitor or on my Sony crt, I don't see the same symptoms? It would seem like that if the encoding doesn't have enough information it wouldn't have enough information for the other displays..

You are correct, it should be the same. There is one thing that can make a huge difference, picture size.The larger the picture, the easier it is to pick out the blocks and artifacts.

[
I would say that I do notice it more on HD D* channels than on DVDS, but I definetly still see it on DVDs. Gladiator and Friday Night Lights are really bad when it comes to the pixel break up. Also, Xbox games where you manually rotate the camera look horrible. The whole background loses any definition and texture and it just smears. It's almost exclusively when the camera pans on any source. Say there are two people having a conversation and the camera pans from one face to the other.. you can go ahead and expect the image to really degrade as it goes from one to the other. [/B]
The problem with those images is that there is detail that you can follow with your eyes (especially games with hard edges in the image). The TV (and the DVD player) have image processing circuits designed to suppress the artifacts created when compressed images pan or move. These circuits can only "soften" or "smear" the details to make the artifacts less obvious.
DVD players have logic designed to identify moving things and clean them up, but they do that to the detriment of sharpness.
You may want to try changing the film/video setting and see what works best.
Are your Glad & Friday DVDs original, or bit rate reduced copies?
On big screens you really don't want to "shrink" DVDs if you can avoid it, as the penalty is more pixillation.
There is also some difference in DVD player performance on moving objects (and if it's interlaced, progressive, rescaled, there are lots of variables)

And the problems are most noticeable on BIG screens.

Gary

Originally posted by Engine Joe
Julio Bro - read this thread, starting with post 8 (from umr). That's when it heads into a discussion of HD RPTVs that convert HDMI signals to analog.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...ght=Sony+analog

Hey Joe, I can't get to that link...is it written OK?

It may have been posted before but I could not see it, but do you have the model number for the Motoral Signal booster?

Originally posted by bmw_68
It may have been posted before but I could not see it, but do you have the model number for the Motorola Signal booster?

I think that there is only one Motorola Signal Booster, but I copied this from my order: "Motorola 484095-001-00 TV Cable Signal Booster"
I ordered mine from Amazon.com because I couldn't find one in town (no big electronic stores). It works so well I ordered another to boost the signal in another room that splits the signal between two TVs.

Does Radio Shack Carry them?

If any of you on this thread will recall that I posted a few weeks back about getting my first 52HM84 and having it go out in the first hour of use. I have had to opportunity to have 3 of these sets and I want to say that set number 2 and 3 have been just great. The second set was a loner (display) until they could get me my new one and I had time to play around with it with no fear of hurting it since it was a loner. I have it hooked up to standard cable, a Samsung TS-160 HD receiver and HTPC/PVR. On the HTPC I’m using an ATI9600 AIW with the vga to RGB converter connection. I’m using a Fusion3Gold HD card in it and a Haumprage 150 for TV recording. The TV recording is working fantastic both with the 150 tv card and with the Fusion recording HD. I left the Samsung receiver hooked up to compare the picture with the Fusion and I have to say that I can’t tell any difference between the two. SD is just about as good as with my CRT a little softer but very good none the less, after all it is just SD. Having the DVD part of the HTPC is unreal being able to play the DVD is a higher resolution. I had to use powerstrip to get the desktop sized right, with the first TV that went bad I used the 1152x644 I think… and it was centered with just a tad of overtscan but not enough to bother things. The second tv using the same setting had the desktop the right size but shifted down about a quarter inch and over to the right about ½ and inch. I had to install powerstrip and use the 1776x1000i setting to get the display centered it just wouldn’t work with any of the 720p settings for some reason. It would still be shifted and when I would try to center it.. it would start flickering and such. So the 1776x1000i took the setting and stayed stable. I have to say the 720p settings were much better for the windows desktop but I saw no difference between the 1080i and the 720p for dvd and HD viewing. I think it’s just odd that the picture was not centered. I really would like to use 720p if it was stable. This is a digital display and I had no expectations of it looking as good or better than a CRT for SD material, but for HD and other digital viewing it’s WAY better than CRT IMO. If any of you have some suggestions as to how I might get the progressive back and stable I would love to hear your ideas, bottom line, I love this set and am very happy with it.

Originally posted by Julio Bro!
Hey Joe, I can't get to that link...is it written OK?

Hmm... the thread seems to have gone missing. I did the search again in the DVD forum, and it doesn't come up, either. I'll search for it manually and repost it if I can find it.

Anyway,. the gist of it is that several manufacturers' RPTVs - Sonys being one of them - convert ALL signals to analog, then back to digital within the TV set itself. It doesn't matter if you connect via DVI/HDMI or analog connectors. For whatever reason, the digital signal input goes through a D->A->D conversion. I have no idea WHY they do this. But the schematics tell the tale.

Other DLP manufacturers don't do this - Samsung, for example. A digital input stays in the digital domain on their sets.

I'll try and track down that discussion again...

EDIT: this is a different thread, but it discusses the same topic.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=503104

Folks,

I got my HDMI cable this weekend, and now I am a bit puzzled. I hokked up my Denon 3910 to my Toshiba 52 DLP.

I calibrated the HDMI using DVE and AVIA, as well as the component inputs.

I got the 3910 to work with the 52HM84 over HDMI, the picture looks very good at 480p, but the picture looks crappier at 720p and even worse at 1080i. As the upconverting increases I see more edge enhancement and artifacting on the picture. I tried turning down the sharpness all the way to zero and it does not really help.

The 480P HDMI looks about the same as the 480Pcomponent, maybe just a hair cleaner.

So is this a DVD player problem or a Toshiba DLP problem?

Help!!!

On an older Toshiba RPTV you needed to start with MOVIE settings before entering your preferences in order to turn off edge enhancements (a.k.a. SVM). This changes internal settings other than the ones you normally access. Suspecting that Toshiba used the same logic here, I have used the same starting point with my 52HM84 and DVD-3910 via HDMI. I still need to do the DVE calibration, which I'll do after applying the -8 firmware which was released earlier today.

Paul.

Pbir (Paul),

Thanks for the tip. When I originally set up the 480p, I started with film, and then tweaked from there. When I went to set up the HDMI, I used my preference mode which I assumed already had whateve I was using with my component set up.

So, I will try again with the HDMI and see if it improves. Perhaps with each resolution 720P and 1080i, you have to reset the preference to turn off whatever is going on.

Pete

Originally posted by pbir
On an older Toshiba RPTV you needed to start with MOVIE settings before entering your preferences in order to turn off edge enhancements (a.k.a. SVM). This changes internal settings other than the ones you normally access. Suspecting that Toshiba used the same logic here, I have used the same starting point with my 52HM84 and DVD-3910 via HDMI. I still need to do the DVE calibration, which I'll do after applying the -8 firmware which was released earlier today.

Paul.

Are you talking about firmware for the Toshiba TV? If so, how do you get it and apply it.

Originally posted by sharonf
Are you talking about firmware for the Toshiba TV? If so, how do you get it and apply it.

No, the -8 firmware is for the Denon 3910.

isn't it harmful to lamp if you on/off often and quick?

Originally posted by TheGrub
I've had my 52HM84 for about 2 weeks, and the TV always comes on in less than 10 seconds and it takes about 30 seconds to get full colors and brightness.

I a currently on my second 52HM84 - the first one was replaced by Best Buy because it had problems restarting after it was powered down - it would make start-uppy noises (Clicking, fan whirs) but would not turn on most times you tried to start it up. The second one has been pretty much left on since it was delived, but yesterday we had a power outage, and guess what - it now won't start, just like to first one.

Best Buy tech is coming by tomorrow to take a look at it, but I am a little concerned, since if this one get's replaced, that's three.

I have it hooked up to a PC running Beyond TV, and an NVidia 6600 HDTV card, but I don't believe that has anything to do with the problem - if nothing is connected to it it still won't start.

Has anyone seen anything like this?

edgore

do you have the TV's power cord going directly to an outlet or are you using a good power/surge protect.?