took this pic when i was watching the 5th element the other night. enjoy. go toshiba

Originally posted by bmob6633
if your interested in sd tv then get an edtv. you will be very happy
it also accepts hdtv 1080i and 720p, as well as dvds native (edtv native as well) 480p. it will handle 480i sattilite awsome
bryan I don't think edtv can show real 720p or 1080i.
Of course, I would like to have HDTV but we only have few HDTV channel here and most channels are still regular satellite.
That's why I said 80% regular satellite, and 20% HDTV.
Maybe someone think edtv for SD and RPTV for HDTV but I don't have that kind of space.
Now, I just search and want to buy a TV which can both suit for HDTV and regular satellite.
I read lot's of post here and narrow to SONY and Toshiba.
I really want to see how Toshiba work but it's hard to find Toshiba near my place and that's why I come here and ask for hlelp.
Thanks for your info but if you can tell me which one is better insteal of get an edtv, it will more help.
anyway, thanks a lot

Originally posted by shadowjon
Dear all, I just saw this review from cnet
As it said, I know the DLP has very good QP on DVD/HDTV, the black is real back, not like LCD RPTV.
However, everyone only talks about DVD or HDTV, rare people talk about the regular TV source.
I know the HDTV is great, but for me, regular satellite is about 80%.
There are no stores show HM84 near my place, so, would you please help me.
How do you think the regular satellite on HM84?
If compare Toshiba HM84 vs SONY WF655, which one has better picture for fast moving and wide angle shots of NFL/NBA and other sporting events using a regular satellite (non HDTV) feed?
Thanks a lot~

Personally I think satellite SD on my 62HM84 is fine considering the source. No its not HD, but my last set was a CRT Toshiba 52" HD set and the DLP is much better at displaying non-HD than that TV was (I also had the CRT ISF calibrated, so it was as good as it could get).

The only responses you can get are obviously subjective, so ultimately its your call based on what you think looks best. For me, I'd have great difficulty buying a $2500+ TV without seeing it first, but I had ready access to the set in a local store. Just my .02.

Originally posted by --Sclaws
For me, I'd have great difficulty buying a $2500+ TV without seeing it first, but I had ready access to the set in a local store. Just my .02. The only problem with that is it still may not give you a good indication of PQ. Unless you could calibrate the set yourself and had control of the input source you wouldn't learn any more than what you read in these forums other than you like the way it looks (i.e. color, size,etc).;)

Jon.
surprised seeing you are here! :)
didn't you already visit 2 stores I told you to check Tosh PQ by yourself with cable?
know your home has dish for JP HD sat, but didn't know you also have dish for TW regular sat? what ch can you get? most families in TW can only get HD source from JP sat. other than that kind of dish for JP sat, never heard general residents install dish for TW regular sat??? :confused: or you mean regular cable? 90+% residents just watch cable thou its quality really sucks!

trust me, I am not the only one say Tosh DLP offers astonished PQ, but many avs gurus say the same comment!!! :D

Originally posted by shadowjon
Dear all, I just saw this review from cnet
As it said, I know the DLP has very good QP on DVD/HDTV, the black is real back, not like LCD RPTV.
However, everyone only talks about DVD or HDTV, rare people talk about the regular TV source.
I know the HDTV is great, but for me, regular satellite is about 80%.
There are no stores show HM84 near my place, so, would you please help me.
How do you think the regular satellite on HM84?
If compare Toshiba HM84 vs SONY WF655, which one has better picture for fast moving and wide angle shots of NFL/NBA and other sporting events using a regular satellite (non HDTV) feed?
Thanks a lot~

agree, this Tosh DLP really outplays previous Pio 50" CRT RP!!!
FYR, paid almost double for 62HM84 here. really pricey!!!!!!!!!! :(

Originally posted by --Sclaws
Personally I think satellite SD on my 62HM84 is fine considering the source. No its not HD, but my last set was a CRT Toshiba 52" HD set and the DLP is much better at displaying non-HD than that TV was (I also had the CRT ISF calibrated, so it was as good as it could get).

The only responses you can get are obviously subjective, so ultimately its your call based on what you think looks best. For me, I'd have great difficulty buying a $2500+ TV without seeing it first, but I had ready access to the set in a local store. Just my .02.

I am looking at the Toshiba (52HM84) versus the Panasonic DLP. BB has the Tosh for $2499, which is currently substantially less expensive than the Panny. I’d like to hear from Toshiba owners to help me make my decision. A few questions I have are:

Are the lack of inputs a problem? Seems like this TV has fewer inputs than all other HD2+ TVs.

I’ve read a lot about the ghosting, is there a solution to this? Is it just hit or miss?

Did you “settle” on this tv b/c it is cheaper than the others or did you actually feel the PQ was equal to or better than the other HD2+ sets? I currently have the Mitsu 52725 but I’m returning it b/c of fan noise.

Thanks for any input you can give!

Originally posted by hb2
I am looking at the Toshiba (52HM84) versus the Panasonic DLP. BB has the Tosh for $2499, which is currently substantially less expensive than the Panny. I’d like to hear from Toshiba owners to help me make my decision. A few questions I have are:

Are the lack of inputs a problem? Seems like this TV has fewer inputs than all other HD2+ TVs.

I’ve read a lot about the ghosting, is there a solution to this? Is it just hit or miss?

Did you “settle” on this tv b/c it is cheaper than the others or did you actually feel the PQ was equal to or better than the other HD2+ sets? I currently have the Mitsu 52725 but I’m returning it b/c of fan noise.

Thanks for any input you can give!

Lack of inputs has not been a problem for me, though I recall that you are right and the Tosh does have less - no VGA input at all for instance. I do not have any ghosting issues. Tried to compare the PQ at store but was difficult to do. Looked amazing right out of the box and even better once I adjusted the settings. I like Tosh products and the reliability is generally good. Price was a factor for me but the TV is so good I do not feel like I settled at all. The new issue of Consumer Reports does rank the Panasonice and the Hitachi ahead of the Tosh, for what it's worth. Good luck.

Originally posted by hb2
Are the lack of inputs a problem? Seems like this TV has fewer inputs than all other HD2+ TVs.
If you are concerned with the inputs perhaps you should look at the 52HMX84 which has 2 HDMI inputs. I will be purchasing the 62HMX94 soon and plan one using the two HDMI inputs for the STB (DVI>HDMI) and the DVD player (HDMI>HDMI). That leaves both component inputs for whatever else I need or choose to connect (i.e. PS2 or XBOX). I really can't think of anything else I would need to connect.

Two HDMI inputs is something you can't get in the Panasonic or the Mitsubishi 52525.

I sort of think that most tvs have more inputs than are necessary. I can't see wanting to hook up more than the cable box, xbox, dvd player, and a vcr, as well as home theater audio. Seems like the HM can accomodate that and the HMX isn't sold around here anyway. I don't intend to hook up a computer, either.

My main concern is PQ in HD and on DVD, above all. I fully expect "regular" tv to look like crap and don't watch much of that anyway.

Any more experiences with the Toshiba units are appreciated ... Thanks again.

Originally posted by hb2
I am looking at the Toshiba (52HM84) versus the Panasonic DLP. BB has the Tosh for $2499, which is currently substantially less expensive than the Panny. I’d like to hear from Toshiba owners to help me make my decision. A few questions I have are:

Are the lack of inputs a problem? Seems like this TV has fewer inputs than all other HD2+ TVs.

I’ve read a lot about the ghosting, is there a solution to this? Is it just hit or miss?

Did you “settle” on this tv b/c it is cheaper than the others or did you actually feel the PQ was equal to or better than the other HD2+ sets? I currently have the Mitsu 52725 but I’m returning it b/c of fan noise.

Thanks for any input you can give!

No ghosting on any of the inputs here. I researched all the major brands of DLPs, and I found the picture on the Toshiba to be superior to all of them, including the Samsung (my original first choice because of form factor). I currently have a DVD player hooked up to the HDMI input, an OTA/QAM DVR hooked up to the Colorstream 1 input, and a cable DVR hooked up to the Colorstream 2 input, so it all works fine for me as I don't have any other high resolution sources (my DVHS deck plays through the OTA/QAM DVR).

I have kind of the same set up, I connect a DVD player via HDMI .
I have my A/V receiver going to colorstream1.
I have Xbox and Cable go to Receiver so the receiver does the Switching for my of those two Signals.

I fully expect the next XBOX to be HDMI and I would be using HDMI for Cable Box (SA hd8300) if it worked but Cable CO (BHN) will not support it till June.

With that said I think that we will soon see more affordable A/V receivers that will do HDMI switching as my Receiver now does with component switching.
That is why I think just one HDMI input for the TV will be Fine as future receivers will do the switching for us.
Just my thoughts.

Originally posted by bmw_68
With that said I think that we will soon see more affordable A/V receivers that will do HDMI switching as my Receiver now does with component switching.
That is why I think just one HDMI input for the TV will be Fine as future receivers will do the switching for us.
Just my thoughts.

I just got this http://www.zektor.com/dvs51/ (arrives today). Granted its DVI not HDMI, but does switch coaxial or optical audio w/the video sources. Good price from a dealer on this forum. See this thread if you're at all interested: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=479972&highlight=zektor+dvs5.1

Rudy1, Hoops2U, and anyone else.
pls advice when was your TV made, and FW version (need to go into service mode to check)? tks.
mine was Sep/04, FW was in Jul/04. but has ghosting.........
http://photo.pchome.com.tw/s04/lienly/book17/p518.jpg
http://photo.pchome.com.tw/s04/lienly/book17/p519.jpg
http://photo.pchome.com.tw/s04/lienly/book17/p520.jpg

agree, Tosh PQ is the best I can find among all RPTVs here in TW!!!

Originally posted by Rudy1
No ghosting on any of the inputs here. I researched all the major brands of DLPs, and I found the picture on the Toshiba to be superior to all of them, including the Samsung (my original first choice because of form factor).

Is going into service mode the only way to tell when your television was made?

Originally posted by Hoops2U
Lack of inputs has not been a problem for me, though I recall that you are right and the Tosh does have less - no VGA input at all for instance. I do not have any ghosting issues. Tried to compare the PQ at store but was difficult to do. Looked amazing right out of the box and even better once I adjusted the settings. I like Tosh products and the reliability is generally good. Price was a factor for me but the TV is so good I do not feel like I settled at all. The new issue of Consumer Reports does rank the Panasonice and the Hitachi ahead of the Tosh, for what it's worth. Good luck.


I have the 52hmx92 and the picture is superior to anything I've seen out there including the Sammy, Panny, and JVC. Had it two months now, no ghosting and great picture. BTW, the picture settings offered in previous threat are great, works great on my set. I have Tosh DVD HDMI, xbox, Sony DVD recorder, Onxyo AV system. Couldn't be happier except for darn TV guide issue... No ghosting at all...

Anyway, if more inputs are required, then look into the 82 or 92 models.

Dan

you can just check at TV back, the label shows manuf'd date.
HM84 needs to go into service mode to check FW ver.
heard HM94 can just press few keys to know it?

DanofNJ.
when was yours made?

if anyone can't see photos I post, click photo then press right key on mouse, choose display image, you should be able to see.

Originally posted by bigdaddy10
Is going into service mode the only way to tell when your television was made?

Originally posted by bigdaddy10
Are any of the Toshiba DLp owners having problems with pixel breakup. Might it be tied to source. I have satellite and I wonder if the picture through HD cable will be better due to less compression.

I am having terrible artifacts on my 52HM84 in HD and SD through the Component in. I see what looks like "tears" running down the screen in HD and when I get close I notice that they are vertical lines of black and white pixels side by side. SD is practically unwatchable. I had Toshiba service out and they said it was a faulty Component IN. However I switched the DVD and HD signals and whatever component the HD was comming through was bad. I called the service center back and said it has nothing to do with the Component Inputs as DVD's play great through them. It has to be the set converting from 1080i and it's projection of the picture that does it!! Even watching direct OTA signals in 720p it is bad!! Any one else experiencing this??

To get back to your question I have DirecTV and still have my 42" 2001 Toshiba RPTV CRT and it still receives an OUTSTANDING picture from the STB...so not the STB or DirecTV. To watch SD I view it through my Tivo and get a great picture using S-Video through Video 1. I viewed this model at CES and also saw it in BB etc so know what it is capable of. I obviously have a Lemon (always one in the bunch) so will just make sure that they replace it or correct it perectly!!

Originally posted by AkaStp
Do the 52HM(X)84/94 sets have an all digital path from the HDMI input(s) to the display (like the Samsung DLPs) or is the HDMI input(s) coverted to analog on entry to the TV?

From the diagrams, it looks like the 84 does D-A-D while the 94 has an all digital path.

Grub, where did you find the diagrams? I did a search and couldn't find it on the net. If the 84 does D-A-D instead of all digital path, so it will have worse PQ, right? I am new to this and on the verger of buying a Toshiba. Initially I thought the 94 only has the tuner and a couple of bells whistles on top of 84, now, if they have different circuit, should I fork the extra dollar to go for the 94?

Originally posted by TheGrub
From the diagrams, it looks like the 84 does D-A-D while the 94 has an all digital path.

Originally posted by everest
Grub, where did you find the diagrams? I did a search and couldn't find it on the net.

Look at videobruce's posts on the block diagram here. It only has one HDMI port so it has to be a HM84 or HM94. I believe he indicated is was for the HM84 but i don't know if the HM94 would be any different. I'm still not convinced the HM goes through a D/A. If you look at the diagram there are two outputs from the QY01 chip. One does go to a A/D converter (makes sense for component or S-video) but there is another that goes to a color decoder and then to the Genesis scaler. I would think this is the HDMI input as there isn't any D/A chip in the diagram so it couldn't feed to a A/D if it wasn't converted to analog first.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4864485#post4864485

Here is the link to the diagram on the HMX94. Look for whjeff's links. My guess is the HMX84 may be similar but can't confirm.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=438276&perpage=20&highlight=diagram&pagenumber=76

I see a lot of thread talk about the HDMI ports. Is that connection significantly better than Y pb pr? I am using the latter as most of my components are not HDMI, but DVI and so I bought a Y,pb pr switcher and use my Yamaha for audio switching.. Since I will be out of jacks I will be using HDMI for a second LG-LST3410A straight to the Toshiba. I could switch the Samsung 165 DVI to the Toshiba HDMI input and use the opened Y pb, pair for the LG if it is better.
Just that I have seen a lot of fuss about ghosting et all on HDMI but no fussing about Y, pb, pr. I am talking feet not meters for cables so it would not be a distance decision

Originally posted by Bill Shenefelt
I see a lot of thread talk about the HDMI ports. Is that connection significantly better than Y pb pr? I am using the latter as most of my components are not HDMI, but DVI and so I bought a Y,pb pr switcher and use my Yamaha for audio switching.. Since I will be out of jacks I will be using HDMI for a second LG-LST3410A straight to the Toshiba. I could switch the Samsung 165 DVI to the Toshiba HDMI input and use the opened Y pb, pair for the LG if it is better.
Just that I have seen a lot of fuss about ghosting et all on HDMI but no fussing about Y, pb, pr. I am talking feet not meters for cables so it would not be a distance decision In theory, a DVI>HDMI or HDMI>HDMI should maintain the digital path from player or STB to display. Some display manufacturers, like Sony, convert it to A/D and then D/A so it defeats the purpose. Whether this would be noticable to you in PQ is something you need to test and see but the least amount of conversions should result in the best possible picture.

read carefully of KOEHI report, it doesn't mention this trick works on new HM DLP TV!
so wonder if anyone really bought such remote to make gray bars to black successfully?
if it works, then will ask friend in States to send me one.

Originally posted by maritimer
speaking of grey bars, check this out, not sure if it will work on all toshiba's but this guy got the grey bars to go black permenently, I haven't got an all in one remote to try it.
http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/brandspecific/toshiba/generaltweaks/graybars_nomore.html

Originally posted by lienly
read carefully of KOEHI report, it doesn't mention this trick works on new HM DLP TV!
so wonder if anyone really bought such remote to make gray bars to black successfully?
if it works, then will ask friend in States to send me one. Although the address mode still exists, the hex values are not the same. Nobody has discovered if it is still possible to eliminate on these models, and if so what the code would be to eliminate the gray bars.

Curious if anyone else sees this. Watching 1080i (receiver is a E* 921), about at the lower 1/3 of the screen I notice what looks like a missing line of video..not that its black, but on diagonal pans theres like a folding effect where the picture is not smooth--like its missing a slight portion of the image. This happens in a single line across the screen, and is usually not noticeable. When I switch to 720p the line is gone.

Anyone?

here are the pics from shark tale i promised, looks eye popping on the dlp!

and another.!

Nice Pics, what are you using ie DVD player and how connected.
BMW

Originally posted by bigdaddy10
Are any of the Toshiba DLp owners having problems with pixel breakup. Might it be tied to source. I have satellite and I wonder if the picture through HD cable will be better due to less compression.


I've seen pixel breakup on some basketball games on my 62HM84 via Dish Network satellite in SD. What is strange is that the same telecast on analog cable didn't have the breakup. Unfortunately I don't have HD yet for a comparison.

I'm curious as to the quality of the scaler when accepting input from the HDMI connection? I know from viewing a tech bulletin that the 84 series uses a Genesis GM6015 scaler. Here's the link in case anyone is interested.

http://gnss.com/products/gm6015.phtml

I'm wondering how this compares to some of the upconverting players like Panasonic who uses the Faroudja FLI2310 or Sony who uses their own. Have any of you tested some of these players over HDMI and have you found any differences in PQ when letting the player scale or vice versa?

I'm trying to determine if an upconverting player would provide any benefit with the HM or HMX series or if a good progressive player would give just as good PQ. Or even if I decided to get an upconverting player just to use the HDMI input, would I be better served to let the display upconvert?

Any experiences would be welcome.

Hey, a friend told me he saw at the forums that Toshiba was recalling the 5970 player. I've been searching but can't find the thread.

I wrote a rather strong letter to Toshiba, about how dreadful it is that we buy a $2000+ HDTV and then their own DVD player doesn't work OK with it, and mentioned the AVS Forums for them to check. This was maybe 2 weeks ago, I wonder if the recall has got anything to do with my letter and the posts.

Anyone knows about this recall?

Bumping for feedback on my question.;)

Originally posted by kdog044
Bumping for feedback on my question.;)

Do some searching in this thread my friend, you'll find some suggestions and reviews on Panasonic, Sony, and LG players...that's for the reasonably priced.

For the higher priced stuff, nothing seems to beat the Denon players...except, maybe, the $2K players.

For those looking for affordable HDMI cables. I found a 6ft Philips HDMI cable at Sams Club for $22.00. They also had 6ft DVI cables for $12.00

just got my 52hm84 a few days ago and love it. thanks for all the posts in this thread that helped me make the decision.

Originally posted by Julio Bro!
Do some searching in this thread my friend, you'll find some suggestions and reviews on Panasonic, Sony, and LG players...that's for the reasonably priced.

For the higher priced stuff, nothing seems to beat the Denon players...except, maybe, the $2K players. Julio, thanks for the response but I already have spent plenty of time reviewing the players and I'm not looking for advice on them. What I want to know is for people that own the HM or HMX sets who have tried upconverting players, have they noticed better PQ with the player doing the scaling as opposed to the display.

In other words, do these sets have really good scalers thus eliminating the need or benefit of purchasing an upconverting one?

Please do not think that D-D or D-A-D signal paths dictate PQ. Read the ExtremeTech article on display technology to get educated on what is really important for PQ and the strengths/weaknesses of the various HD display technologies. It will open your eyes!

Depending on how the mfg implements HDMI, digital inputs could be your worst enemy as many sets do not allow much if any control over HDMI inputs. Be careful assuming HDMI is the end-all of PQ. It can be if done properly.

Count

I have the Tosh 5970 upconverter and love it. There is definitely a difference re: 480 vs 720 vs 1080i. The player allows you to instantly go from one convert to another, so within a minute you can decide which one is best for the DVD you are playing. Generally, 1080i yields a very good result on most HMDI hookup. I know some people have issues with the remote, however if you use the TV result which is already pre-programmed for the Tosh DVD player, it is fine with the same range/response of the TV remote. The Tosh remote with the 5970 is very weak..quite strange really, but with regular TV remote it is not an issue.

Dan

Originally posted by DanofNJ
I have the Tosh 5970 upconverter and love it. There is definitely a difference re: 480 vs 720 vs 1080i. The player allows you to instantly go from one convert to another, so within a minute you can decide which one is best for the DVD you are playing. Generally, 1080i yields a very good result on most HMDI hookup. Dan, so in your opinion did you find that the player provided better PQ when using it to upconvert as opposed to the display? I'm curious as to the 1080i being the best since the display still needs to convert it's native 720 resolution.

Dan, so in your opinion did you find that the player provided better PQ when using it to upconvert as opposed to the display? I'm curious as to the 1080i being the best since the display still needs to convert it's native 720 resolution.


Well, It depends. On some DVD's native is best, for other's the 1080i really punches out a near HDTV result. Not all DVD's are created equal, so you may have to test it to see which is best. Personally, I like the 1080i because the picture, in my opinion is sharper ....it becomes a question of personal taste. See if you can go to BB or Circuit City and see the difference for yourself.

Dan

BMW, i use my htpc and i run dvi out to my tv, im gonna take some pics of the oscars tongiht in hd

Originally posted by DanofNJ
Well, It depends. On some DVD's native is best, for other's the 1080i really punches out a near HDTV result. Not all DVD's are created equal, so you may have to test it to see which is best. Dan, I am aware that not all DVD's are the same. My question is simple. I assume you tried leaving the picture at a 480i or 480p resolution and letting the display handle the scaling as opposed to setting it to 720p in the player whereas the display would not and compared the two. With that beng said is it your opinion that the player you use has a better scaler than the display?

Anyone else who has either the HM or HMX model with an upconverting player feel free to respond on what your opinions are.

Beginning with Build 480 of PowerStrip, a new, simple resolution "designer" is included that may ease the tedium involved in eliminating overscan. You would typically begin from the manufacturer's recommended but overscanned resolution and timing (e.g., 1280x720p), and, after ensuring the result is indeed sharp (albeit overscanned), you would access the designer from the PowerStrip custom resolution page (there's a little speedbutton above the Close button).

1. PowerStrip menu > Display profiles > Configure
2. Switch to the manufacturer's recommended resolution
3. Click Advanced timing options
4. Center the image on the display using the position controls; TVs are designed to overscan, so do not try to adjust the screen size using the size controls
5. Click Custom resolutions
6. Click the "designer" speedbutton above the Close button
7. Size and position the designer window so that it stretches edge-to-edge, keeping in mind that the window will snap to values that the hardware can handle (e.g., the horizontal resolution will usually need to divisible by 8).
8. When you are done, click Ok to return to the Custom resolution dialog box and click "Add resolution", then follow the instructions on screen.



With any luck, the result will require only a tiny bit of fine-tuning in Advanced timing options.

i used this with my hm84 and i got no overscan at all on my ati 9600xt its great! just watched a 720p preview and it was stunning, great find. let me know if this works for anyone else

Originally posted by Julio Bro!
Hey, a friend told me he saw at the forums that Toshiba was recalling the 5970 player. I've been searching but can't find the thread.

I wrote a rather strong letter to Toshiba, about how dreadful it is that we buy a $2000+ HDTV and then their own DVD player doesn't work OK with it, and mentioned the AVS Forums for them to check. This was maybe 2 weeks ago, I wonder if the recall has got anything to do with my letter and the posts.

Anyone knows about this recall?

I heard of a recall on an earlier Tosh player but not the 5970. I own one and am delighted with its performance. What isn't working for you? If it's the remote being sluggish, that's a minor annoyance and a known issue w/o a fix to my knowledge. Just use your Tosh TV remote to control it and you'll be fine. PQ of this player is excellent IMHO.

Originally posted by sayanythingrock
Beginning with Build 480 of PowerStrip, a new, simple resolution "designer" is included that may ease the tedium involved in eliminating overscan. You would typically begin from the manufacturer's recommended but overscanned resolution and timing (e.g., 1280x720p), and, after ensuring the result is indeed sharp (albeit overscanned), you would access the designer from the PowerStrip custom resolution page (there's a little speedbutton above the Close button).

1. PowerStrip menu > Display profiles > Configure
2. Switch to the manufacturer's recommended resolution
3. Click Advanced timing options
4. Center the image on the display using the position controls; TVs are designed to overscan, so do not try to adjust the screen size using the size controls
5. Click Custom resolutions
6. Click the "designer" speedbutton above the Close button
7. Size and position the designer window so that it stretches edge-to-edge, keeping in mind that the window will snap to values that the hardware can handle (e.g., the horizontal resolution will usually need to divisible by 8).
8. When you are done, click Ok to return to the Custom resolution dialog box and click "Add resolution", then follow the instructions on screen.



With any luck, the result will require only a tiny bit of fine-tuning in Advanced timing options.

i used this with my hm84 and i got no overscan at all on my ati 9600xt its great! just watched a 720p preview and it was stunning, great find. let me know if this works for anyone else

Does Powerstrip only work on the PC? I am trying to hook a Mac Mini that has a ATI Radeon 9200 with 32MB of DDR SDRAM up to My Toshiba 62HM84 and have the overscanning issue. They make a couple applications for the Mac to make Custom display Resolutions. One custom Resolution app for the Mac is SwitchResX (http://www.madrau.com/html/SRX/indexSRX.html) and another is DisplayConfigX (http://voodoofx.all.de/displayconfigx/) If you Don't enter the proper Settings you will end up with a black screen like me.

Can you share your Custom Display Settings you used to Input In Power Strip?

Thanks
Ruben

I'm the proud new owner of a 52HM84. It was just delivered today. It's "breathtaking". =)

Just got done watching Shark Tale and I noticed no image problems like "clay face" or ghosting. I'm using the Toshiba upscaling DVD player (SD-5970) and it seems to perform well. Maybe my expectations are low. I'm using the HDMI cable that was included. Unless there is something I'm missing I think the 5970 will hold me over until true HD is sorted out. The remote, and the buttons on the front, are a bit slow to respond.

I have an xbox plugged in through component cables. It has more "jaggies" than I expected but the picture is very good overall. I was trying out the new Prince of Persia and in a few scenes the jagged lines were distracting. This game says it's 480p but it did not look it. And yes I did set the xbox dashboard properly.

I can't get any true high def signal until next Saturday when Bright House comes out. Can't wait to see some Discovery HD on this TV. Too bad Monday Night Football is half a year away!

I'm going to pop in Fifth Element now.

This message board helped me decide on this unit so thanks for all the informative postings. I'm sure I will be an active member in this thread.

R Coy

Hey all, I'm considering purchasing a 46hm84. I had ordered a sammy hlp4663w but am thinking about getting the toshiba instead. This model has been on the market for a while now, do you guys think I should wait?

Also I'm going to use it for a computer monitor and video games/dvd more than anything else, would you still recommend it, if you say I shouldn't wait?

Originally posted by Zedian
Hey all, I'm considering purchasing a 46hm84. I had ordered a sammy hlp4663w but am thinking about getting the toshiba instead. This model has been on the market for a while now, do you guys think I should wait?

Also I'm going to use it for a computer monitor and video games/dvd more than anything else, would you still recommend it, if you say I shouldn't wait?

The manual for this particular model (which I happen to own) clearly states that it should not be connected to a computer. Those on this forum who've gone ahead and done so anyway have not been happy with the results. If video games and computer compatibility are that important to you, you would be better off looking at models which carry the manufacturers recommendation for use as computer monitors.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RCoy
[B]I can't get any true high def signal until next Saturday when Bright House comes out. Can't wait to see some Discovery HD on this TV.
Hi RCoy
If you are within a realistic over the air distance from network towers, grab an LG LST3410A for normal CBS, ABC, NBC, FOX WB programming assuming you watch network shows. Also the PBS HD station broadcast near me in Pittsburgh,Pa is about the finest picture I have ever seen and carries shows similar to discovery and Nature. For about $700 the 3410A with High Def recording hard drive and programming guide is actually a steal. Blows away the Toshiba Symbio recorder which relies on the Toshiba tuner so is not a viable alternative for you anyway.

the only reason the manual states that you shouldn't hook a pc up to the tv is because it won't work intially, you have to tweak around to get it to work properly, they just put that in there so they won't get call about people pc's not showing properly on the tosh, its not detremental to the tv to run a computer on it, thats just dumb

If you are within a realistic over the air distance from network towers, grab an LG LST3410A for normal CBS, ABC, NBC, FOX WB programming assuming you watch network shows. Also the PBS HD station broadcast near me in Pittsburgh,Pa is about the finest picture I have ever seen and carries shows similar to discovery and Nature. For about $700 the 3410A with High Def recording hard drive and programming guide is actually a steal. Blows away the Toshiba Symbio recorder which relies on the Toshiba tuner so is not a viable alternative for you anyway.

Thanks for the info Bill. I'm addicted to Fox News and the History channel though and I already have high speed cable through Bright House so I'm thinking that's the way to go. Unless they keep raising the rates. Of course if they are compressing the heck out of the signal I might reconsider.

I just got a 52hm84 and was wondering how most of you set up your HD boxes and upconverting DVD players with only a single HDMI input? I was thinking of using HD with component cables and the DVD player (with a DVI output) hooked up using an hdmi/dvi cable. Any other solutions besides an expensive switcher?

Originally posted by kdog044
Dan, I am aware that not all DVD's are the same. My question is simple. I assume you tried leaving the picture at a 480i or 480p resolution and letting the display handle the scaling as opposed to setting it to 720p in the player whereas the display would not and compared the two. With that beng said is it your opinion that the player you use has a better scaler than the display?

Anyone else who has either the HM or HMX model with an upconverting player feel free to respond on what your opinions are. So doesn't anyone else have an upconverting player?

Originally posted by SandmanX
Does Powerstrip only work on the PC? I am trying to hook a Mac Mini that has a ATI Radeon 9200 with 32MB of DDR SDRAM up to My Toshiba 62HM84 and have the overscanning issue. They make a couple applications for the Mac to make Custom display Resolutions. One custom Resolution app for the Mac is SwitchResX (http://www.madrau.com/html/SRX/indexSRX.html) and another is DisplayConfigX (http://voodoofx.all.de/displayconfigx/) If you Don't enter the proper Settings you will end up with a black screen like me.

Can you share your Custom Display Settings you used to Input In Power Strip?

Thanks
Ruben

Did you ever got it working? If you did, will you please share your setting. Thanks.

Originally posted by kdog044
So doesn't anyone else have an upconverting player?

I have a upconverting player. The LG 7832NXC. it's the Zenith DVB318 Canadian clone.

I have it set up at 1080i through components and the PQ is stunning on well mastered DVD's. Some older DVD's look more grainy then at 480i/p.

I tried 480i, 480p, 720p ans 1080i with components and DVI->HDMI. The player has a reputation of being very good at 1080i over components. And it was the same conclusion for me.

Comparing the TV's scaler to the DVD player's scaler was very easy to do and the DVD's scaler is better than the TV's scaler. HDMI ports on the tosh dlp's is problematic, waaaayyy too much sharpness. So with my player being better over components AND the TV being better over components IMO, my setup is perfect for me.

Originally posted by TheGrub
I tried 480i, 480p, 720p ans 1080i with components and DVI->HDMI. The player has a reputation of being very good at 1080i over components. And it was the same conclusion for me.

Comparing the TV's scaler to the DVD player's scaler was very easy to do and the DVD's scaler is better than the TV's scaler. HDMI ports on the tosh dlp's is problematic, waaaayyy too much sharpness. So with my player being better over components AND the TV being better over components IMO, my setup is perfect for me. This is exactly the kind of information I am looking for. What model of display do you have? Was the sharpness the only problem with the HDMI connection? Are you saying you couldn't correct it with the settings in the display or player?

I have the LG DVB 418 upconverting DVD player.
I run it to my 52hm84 via HDMI. This Player has HDMI so it is a true HDMI to HDMI connection note not DVI to HDMI.
I have No issue with Over Sharpness. I too have viewed Sharks Tale with this setup and all I can Say WOW, My wife thought it looked as good as some of the HDHBO movies we have seen.

I also have the SA HD8300 DVR HD Cable BOX from BHN and it is hooked to the set via Component, which also looks very good.

Overall Very HAPPY with My purchase and Setup.

bMw

yes, its PQ is breathtaking.
but ghosting degrades such effect! player is Sharp upconverting PVR to output 1080i/720p via component.

so when was your TV made, and FW version?
mine 62HM84 was assembled in Sep/04 and FW was Jul/04.

Originally posted by RCoy
I'm the proud new owner of a 52HM84. It was just delivered today. It's "breathtaking". =)

Just got done watching Shark Tale and I noticed no image problems like "clay face" or ghosting.

R Coy

Originally posted by bmw_68
I have the LG DVB 418 upconverting DVD player.
I run it to my 52hm84 via HDMI. This Player has HDMI so it is a true HDMI to HDMI connection note not DVI to HDMI.
I have No issue with Over Sharpness. I too have viewed Sharks Tale with this setup and all I can Say WOW, My wife thought it looked as good as some of the HDHBO movies we have seen. So what resolution did you find provided the best PQ? I assume you tried 480i, 480p and 720p as well as 1080i.

Just got my 52HM84 on 2-22 and decided you give you some initial impressions.

Out of the box using regular cable and a new cheap Toshiba Progressive scan DVD player ($60 at BB) with component cables (Acoustic research brand). Cable quality was hit or miss. Most stations were fine though some seemed washed out and grainy. On normal setting the 4:3 picture was no better or worse than old 27 inch CRT.
When I watched "The Bourne Supremacy" I was amazed at the clarity of the picture but at the end I discovered I had not enabled Progressive scan on the DVD player. Turned it on and slipped in "Return of the King EE" at the Battle of Pelennor Fields. My jaw hit the floor. It looked even better than in the theatre and had a similar appearance to those HD broadcasts you see in Best Buy and Circuit City. No smearing at all, no pixilation, no rainbows,...perfect picture. "Spiderman 2" was another Jaw dropper. Again, almost HDTV quality. Man, this set is amazing. Btw, I was just using the standard MOVIE setting. Have not had time to adjust the set to any great degree yet.
On 2-24-05 the Dish Network installer got me hooked up with an 811 HD receiver (using Component cabling) and a wonderful signal (great open southern exposure). All SD channels immediately improved dramatically. Of course HD looked great. Found myself mesmerized by Discovery channel show on snakes just watching the amazing picture. Was able to improve to picture by changing a setting under Installation>HDTV setup. I changed the box input to 1080i and then used the Picture size setting #1 to stretch picture to fullscreen. I would not normally do this but I hate those GRAY BARS. Will be glad when a FIX is discovered or "leaked" by Toshiba.
Many SD channels now look near-DVD like (my old DVD that is). My kids mostly watch Nick and Disney Channel and those stations are a revelation. Great colors, no smearing or bleeding of reds. Changing from 480p which is default of 811 box to 1080i seems to have given a greater perceived resolution as the picture is now VERY sharp.
All in all, very pleased with this set. Only drawbacks seem to be lack of inputs. Would love to see another component input at the very least. There also needs to be a way to make the gray bars on 4:3 viewing black from a menu. Other than that, no problems. Great job Toshiba.

Pluses: no rainbows for any family member or friend who has watched it (maybe 20 people so far) so must be rare problem.
NO glare from room lamps or from French doors facing TV. If your TV will face a window you may have to leave Lamp on High but there will be NO glare at all.
Can save your preferences to each input. Very helpful. And the standard sports/standard/video/movie settings arent bad either.

I suggest paying for home delivery of this set. It is a HUGE box and hard to fit properly into most vehicles. (seems that MANY set problems with this set stem from damage during transport or delivery) Also make sure cabling is done correctly with as few splitters and connectors as possible (lose 3db per fitting). Not sure the difference between Direct TV and Dish network picture wise. Im just renting with Dish network and with local channels and HD content (with more to come I hope) and 2 extra TVs on other 2-tuner receiver, Im only paying $5.00 more than basic cable. If any problems crop up, I will let you guys know. Would love to hear what picture settings anyone is using for SD TV or any other comments as well.

Originally posted by kdog044
This is exactly the kind of information I am looking for. What model of display do you have? Was the sharpness the only problem with the HDMI connection? Are you saying you couldn't correct it with the settings in the display or player?

I have the 52HM84, and IMO, all the ghosting problems people are reporting is caused by the sharpness being way too high through the HDMI port. DVE shows this easily with the sharpness screen settings.

My sharpness is at 0 on my HDMI input and it's still way too high. Colors are on the Darker side, but i'm not sure if it's the TV or the DVD player.

I find that 1080i on the LG DVB 418 upconverting DVD player looks best Via HDMI. In addtion I do not have ghosting issue at all, and My setting are set at default MOVIE settting.

Originally posted by bmw_68
I find that 1080i on the LG DVB 418 upconverting DVD player looks best Via HDMI. In addtion I do not have ghosting issue at all, and My setting are set at default MOVIE settting. You should pick up Avia or DVE as I think you could improve the PQ even more. What I find puzzling is the number of HM/HMX owners that find 1080i to be the best. Logic would dictate that the native 720p should provide the best PQ. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Originally posted by kdog044
You should pick up Avia or DVE as I think you could improve the PQ even more. What I find puzzling is the number of HM/HMX owners that find 1080i to be the best. Logic would dictate that the native 720p should provide the best PQ. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

I did talk briefly w/ a Toshiba customer service rep about this. Their reasoning was that most HD is 1080i from the source and it's better (their assessment) to let the TV handle any conversions instead of a STB. I am hard pressed to see a difference either way so I just leave the STB output on 1080i.

Originally posted by --Sclaws
I did talk briefly w/ a Toshiba customer service rep about this. Their reasoning was that most HD is 1080i from the source and it's better (their assessment) to let the TV handle any conversions instead of a STB. I am hard pressed to see a difference either way so I just leave the STB output on 1080i. Jim, I can uderstand this logic with HD programming but the same phenomena appears with upconverting DVD player owners. This doesn't make sense as the source is native 480i.

Can someone let me know what the remote code is for a Motorola STB? My copy of the manual doesn't have that. I'm also still trying to find out if it's possible to see what the signal is on the screen, seems odd that you can't see "1080i" or "480p" on the screen ever. Thx. (52MH84)

Originally posted by bmw_68
I find that 1080i on the LG DVB 418 upconverting DVD player looks best Via HDMI. In addtion I do not have ghosting issue at all, and My setting are set at default MOVIE settting.

You are not the first one with a HDMI dvd player with no ghosting.... maybe DVI-->HDMI is what's causing the problem...

Originally posted by hb2
Can someone let me know what the remote code is for a Motorola STB? My copy of the manual doesn't have that. I'm also still trying to find out if it's possible to see what the signal is on the screen, seems odd that you can't see "1080i" or "480p" on the screen ever. Thx. (52MH84)

hb2, i posted the same question before regarding displaying the type of signal, and the answer is that the hm84 series does not display the type of signal (i think the hm94 may be different).

I agree I think that its a DVI to HDMI issue not an issue for us doing straight HDMI to HDMI.

What are your Settings you use : ie Mode then custom settings beyond that, I don't have a AVE disk yet and like to try someone who has done a calabration on a upconverting HDMI to HDMI DVD Player?

Thanks
bMw

Originally posted by bmw_68
I agree I think that its a DVI to HDMI issue not an issue for us doing straight HDMI to HDMI.

What are your Settings you use : ie Mode then custom settings beyond that, I don't have a AVE disk yet and like to try someone who has done a calabration on a upconverting HDMI to HDMI DVD Player?

Thanks
bMw

Here's a link to a thread where I posted some from a few owners.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=514981

Originally posted by kdog044
Julio, thanks for the response but I already have spent plenty of time reviewing the players and I'm not looking for advice on them. What I want to know is for people that own the HM or HMX sets who have tried upconverting players, have they noticed better PQ with the player doing the scaling as opposed to the display.

In other words, do these sets have really good scalers thus eliminating the need or benefit of purchasing an upconverting one? ANy other opinions out there?

Originally posted by kdog044
ANy other opinions out there?

I had an "el cheapo" non-progressive DVD player. My Toshiba 5970 blows it away in a direct comparison. That's a given. When playing a DVD on the Tosh, I see no difference in PQ when I set its outputs to 1080i or 720. So I leave it at 720 as this is native to the TV.

However, I clearly see a better image with my Dish receiver when the TV does the scaling. In other words, setting the Dish STB to ouput at 1080i gives me the best PQ on 720p & 1080i program content. When I set the STB to 720p, all 1080i PQ (NBC, CBS) degrades slightly while 720p looks fine.

Hope this helps.

Originally posted by moman19
When playing a DVD on the Tosh, I see no difference in PQ when I set its outputs to 1080i or 720. So I leave it at 720 as this is native to the TV. Moman, thanks for the response. What about if you set the player to 480p and let the TV do the scaling? Do you find the 720p setting on the player gives you better PQ as opposed to the TV's scaling?

I find the resolution discussion very interesting as this seems to be the ultimate gray area of HD capture, transmission, and display. As most of us are still evaluating and deciding for future equipment, I did some research about the issue.

These are the links I visited. They have very good and long explanations I will try to resume:

http://www.hdlibrary.com/viewtopic.php?t=205

http://www.cedmagazine.com/ced/2004/0204/02a.htm

http://www.avd.com.au/Without_Frames/Media/Videography_1.htm

Some facts:

* When the western world was trying to improve the resolution of TV, Japan already had an 1125i standard. The westerners felt their companies could dissppear against the competition and convinced the decision makers that a different standard should be created. Hence came the 720p and 1080i, which are good, but not better than the Japan HDTV.

* For pure, uncompressed signals, 720p is better with moving images and 1080i is better with still images. This because more lines means more resolution, but interlacing introduces artifacts which are not present in progressive.

* 720p is cheaper to transmit than 1080i; less lines are easier to process. Because of this, some broadcasters push for 720p.

* 1080i displays are cheaper to manufacture than 720p; processors are less expensive. Because of this, distributors and some manufacturers (some buyers too) push for 1080i.

* At any given moment a 1080i shows just a bit more of the lines of a 720p, this because of the Kell Factor, which states Xi = .7Xp. In other words, 1080i video is approximately 756p video.

* Military applications demanded near absolute precision and thus progressive is favored over interlaced, because of this, contracted manufacturers push for 720p.

You can see why manufacturers, broadcasters, and cable/sat providers have been strugling for years on the format issue. As technical advances has made the less expensive interlace systems more precise, the quality gap between formats is closer. Also the Kell Factor indicates that what we actually see is closer too.

Manufacturers and cable/sat providers have been wise and offer products that work in either format, broadcasters are left to decide on which they are gonna use. It's all good for us, we still have to evaluate which product is better for our needs.

Another fact is that the signals our equipment display are processed, a lot. Even DVD video is a compressed format, further more...high definition DVD will still be a processed format too. So, it's all down to which equipment (cable transmitter, cable box, DVD player, HDTV) process these signals best.

What is better then? Well processed 1080i will look the same as 720p, that leaves us with the fact that 1080i still represents more lines. Net result should be a slightly higher resolution image which you can look closer at.

Our Toshibas take all signals, convert them to 720p, and fit them to the big screen. My feeling is that a 1080i signal will have the same effect as when you look at a 5Meg and a 3.5MEG pictures in your 17" computer monitor. Both pictures look great, but the 5Meg looks better, particularly when bigger, because it has more information.

Using the 5Meg picture analogy, a 1080i image has more information than a 720p, and it's been fitted to a big screen. Given high quality equipment, I would say 1080i should look better than 720p, for the sheer fact that it has more information. BUT (big but) ultimately the different equipment combos could prove better for either format, you'll just have to test them...as always.

JulioBro, While I applaud your research it doesn't address my question. I simply want to get the opinions of those who have purchased or tested upconverting players with their HM or HMX display at the standard 480i or 480p and let the display handle the scaling as opposed to the other way around. Basically I'm trying to determine if the display has an equal or better scaler than the upconverting players to determine whether I would obtain much benefit to purchasing one as opposed to concentrating on a good progressive player such as the Sony NVP-NS775V.

I've narrowed down the upconverting players to consider and want to know if the additional $150 would be justified based on the quality of the internal scaler in the Toshiba. I may have to experiment myself but unfortunately the upconverting players I am considering are only available on-line and I would have to deal with the hassle of returning them.

I was hoping someone might have already done some of this testing and could have shared their findings.

Originally posted by kdog044
JulioBro, While I applaud your research it doesn't address my question. I simply want to get the opinions of those who have purchased or tested upconverting players with their HM or HMX display at the standard 480i or 480p and let the display handle the scaling as opposed to the other way around. Basically I'm trying to determine if the display has an equal or better scaler than the upconverting players...

If you check some of what I read, most indicate that the upscalers in DVDs and STBs do a better job than the HDTV's. The Toshiba will do a better job of fitting and presenting this image on the screen if the source image is good. The better the source, the better reproduction.

You know, an easy way to look at this is comparing non-progressive DVD to progressive. The Toshiba is converting the non-progressive to 720p, but obviously the progressive signal looks better. So you see, it's combination between source and projector.

Kkdog044,

I'm not sure he was addressing your specific question. Throughout this forum numerous people have posed the question of which resolution is better to send to the television. This can be answered many ways. It truly depends on what type of dvd player or scaler you buy. I'm sure the $1000.00 dvd player will do a great job of up or downconverting a picture as opposed to a $149.00 DVD player or deinterlacer. This question has also been asked in reference to satellite receivers and cable boxes. How should the resolution from these boxes be set. Should they let the box do the work or the television. I believe if you ask 3 separate people you will probably get 3 different answers.

I receive my 62HMX94 on Saturday. I purchased the LG DVB418 and the Denon - 1710. I'm going to pop in the 2 copies I have of The Fifth Element and compare component vs HDMI connection in all formats 480i, 480P, 720P and 1080i. I will go back and fourth from POP windows and full screen to get a true evaluation. Now take in mind this will only be on 2 different inexpensive DVD players but by the end of the day 1 of them is going back to the B&M I bought it from.

Originally posted by bigdaddy10
Kkdog044,
I purchased the LG DVB418 and the Denon - 1710. Do you mean the 1910? I've never heard of a 1710. I would like to hear your results once you do the testing. I'm looking at the Panasonic S97 and Sony 975. I may just order the 975 and pick up the 775 at BB and see if there is a benefit with the upconversion. Unfortunately getting the TV and DVD player isn't going to happen for a few more weeks. I have decided on the same TV you have and look forward to your impressions of it as well.

Does the LG pass DD 5.1 from the HDMI connection? If so, could you test the optical output on the display and see if it will pass it to your receiver. I tried contacting Toshiba customer support but they were no help. My understanding is if the receiving display cannot pass 5.1 it will downchannel to 2.0 PCM. I know the display will pass it from cable card input but couldn't get a straight answer on the HDMI input from a capable DVD player.

Originally posted by Julio Bro!
If you check some of what I read, most indicate that the upscalers in DVDs and STBs do a better job than the HDTV's. This may be true for older displays but I've read some responses where they feel their display has a better scaler. Of course this is usually FP owners with Faroudja. I know the HM/HMX 84 uses a Genesis video processor (GM6015) but I haven't been able to figure out what the 94 series is using. I'm thinking it may be their own proprietary one. As far as the STB goes most set it to 1080i as only three broadcast in 720p (i.e. FOX, ESPN, ABC). This would indicate the display has a better scaler than the STB since it converts these to 720p whereas the STB would just pass the signal as is. I don't hear of many that let the STB do the conversion and I've read that some people switch it 720p on the STB when viewing those three channels. Ideally a pass-through would be the best choice but in my case the Motorola box that Comcast uses doesn't have this option.

The Denon 1710 is exactly like the 1910 but it does not have the HDMI/DVI output. Strictly component or svideo. I had heard so many bad reports on the upconverting DVD players I bought the 1710 instead. In the last 2 weeks I've heard from many people that the issue may be the DVI to HDMI connection and not the HDMI to HDMI. This prompted me to buy the LG DVB418. I'll try to post an in depth result with pictures by Sunday 3/6.

Originally posted by kdog044
This may be true for older displays but I've read some responses where they feel their display has a better scaler. Of course this is usually FP owners with Faroudja. I know the HM/HMX 84 uses a Genesis video processor (GM6015) but I haven't been able to figure out what the 94 series is using. I'm thinking it may be their own proprietary one. As far as the STB goes most set it to 1080i as only three broadcast in 720p (i.e. FOX, ESPN, ABC). This would indicate the display has a better scaler than the STB since it converts these to 720p whereas the STB would just pass the signal as is. I don't hear of many that let the STB do the conversion and I've read that some people switch it 720p on the STB when viewing those three channels. Ideally a pass-through would be the best choice but in my case the Motorola box that Comcast uses doesn't have this option.

Here is an in-depth article that might help you make a decision about which DVD player to get, as well as what resolution to set your cable box to:

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1743353,00.asp

Personally, I've found I get the best results by varying the resolution I feed to my 46HM84 based on the source, as follows:

Comcast Motorola DCT6412 DVR = 1080i
LG LST3410A OTA/QAM DVR = 720p
DVD resolution output setting varies depending the player, but 1080i usually works best for most DVD titles.

FYI, over the past two months I've tested five different DVD players----Denon 2910, Zenith DVB318, Toshiba SD-V592, Oppo DV971H, Panasonic S97S. I found something objectionable in the performance of all of these players, so I'm still looking. Bottom line is, it doesn't matter who made your player or how much you paid for it if the chips and other components are not implemented in a manner that results in a beautiful image free of artifacts.

Originally posted by kdog044
...As far as the STB goes most set it to 1080i as only three broadcast in 720p (i.e. FOX, ESPN, ABC). This would indicate the display has a better scaler than the STB since it converts these to 720p whereas the STB would just pass the signal as is. I don't hear of many that let the STB do the conversion and I've read that some people switch it 720p on the STB when viewing those three channels. Ideally a pass-through would be the best choice but in my case the Motorola box that Comcast uses doesn't have this option.

This doesn't indicate the display has a better scaler, most displays convert to just one format. For instance, ours do only 720p, others do 1080i...I think they do the best they can to present the image. If the display only does a one format conversion, then you setup the source to the best it can give...in this case 1080i.

I agree that the display should receive the native format of the source and that's something STB manufacturers and cable/sat providers are missing; as Rudy1's link indicate, rescaling brings a loss in quality. They should let the HDTV signal pass in whatever format the broadcaster chose, then the display could do a better job with an almost untouched signal.

If we were to follow all this to the letter, then for those who have HDMI DVD players setting the output to 480p should provide the best quality signal. This because that's DVD's native resolution, so in digital form (HDMI) this should be the purest signal and would be converted only once to 720p by the display. Someone should try that eeeh.

Now, if changing to 720p or 1080i output looks better, then the DVD's or STB's scaler is doing a better job...right?

Folks Need Help!!

I just got a 62HM94.
I have standard dish network. After plugging in through composite/coaxial or S-video the picture is literally unwatchable. Its like horizontal lines all over the picture making it pixelated and the object contours are like the edge of a saw.

Any text message that is displayed has two balck lines running horizontally across the screen.

I switched to a tosh from a Mits 62 b'cos I could not stand the glare but when compared to the pics Mits was giving its hell and heaven difference

Any of you faced this problem or can help me with any info would be great.

Is there any set up I am missing

i saw screw the dvd players anc hook up your pc to your tv and run it with zoomplayer and dscaler or ffdshow and that will take care of the debate
its the best solution for the problem

Originally posted by Rudy1
DVD resolution output setting varies depending the player, but 1080i usually works best for most DVD titles. This is the one that still puzzles me. You would think if the upconverting player has a good scaler that 720p would give the best results since that is the native resolution of the display. Why do you think the 1080i works best when the display has to do another conversion?

Originally posted by Julio Bro!
This doesn't indicate the display has a better scaler, most displays convert to just one format. For instance, ours do only 720p, others do 1080i...I think they do the best they can to present the image. If the display only does a one format conversion, then you setup the source to the best it can give...in this case 1080i. If the STB has such a good scaler you would set it up for 720p which is the native resolution of the display. Then the display would never need to touch the signal. Since most people find 1080i a better option, it would lead me to believe the display has the better scaler.


Originally posted by Julio Bro!
If we were to follow all this to the letter, then for those who have HDMI DVD players setting the output to 480p should provide the best quality signal. This because that's DVD's native resolution, so in digital form (HDMI) this should be the purest signal and would be converted only once to 720p by the display. Someone should try that eeeh.

Now, if changing to 720p or 1080i output looks better, then the DVD's or STB's upscaler is doing a better job...right? [/B] Exactly, and this is what I am trying to find out. How good are the scalers in the HM/HMX series, specifically the HMX94, and would I benefit from an upconverting player such as the Panasonic S97 or Sony 975? This is why I am posting in this thread as that question is really display dependent. If someone tests this theory and finds the 720p image from the upconverting player is better than the 480p image from the player (which the display has to convert to 720p) you could draw the conclusion that the scaler in the player is superior to the one in the display. Simple, right?

You know kdog044, I read a Denon advertising which said that the player actually added pixels to the image and thus the increase in resolution, although I have no idea how it's done.

We know that this displays have line-doublers, which are responsible for converting an interlace image to a progressive one, but those are lines. See, I'm sure that the display is not "adding" or "substracting" pixels to the image, it's just fitting it to the 720p processor to project.

If this DVD players are able to reconfigure the image with a higher pixel count, then that could explain why it shows better in the display. Does this makes sense?

Originally posted by sayanythingrock
i saw screw the dvd players anc hook up your pc to your tv and run it with zoomplayer and dscaler or ffdshow and that will take care of the debate
its the best solution for the problem

LOL...I'll keep this in mind and if I can't find a DVD player I'm happy with I'll get in touch with you so you can come down here and set the whole thing up for me.

Originally posted by kdog044
This is the one that still puzzles me. You would think if the upconverting player has a good scaler that 720p would give the best results since that is the native resolution of the display. Why do you think the 1080i works best when the display has to do another conversion?

My comment is based on my own tests using titles such as "Blade Runner", "The Fifth Element", and "Event Horizon". I go with what looks best to my eyes, and with a couple of the players I've tested (I won't name them) running 480p via HDMI into the Toshiba DLP resulted in an image that was nice, but not particularly outstanding. Having these players scale the signal to 1080i produced a more lifelike, sharper, and more detailed image.

I've read in the past that, if there's to be any scaling of a DVD signal, it is better to have this done in the "digital domain"----that is, before the signal leaves the player.

Have only had Dish network 811 HD receiver a week and discovered that if you hit the format button on bottom left of remote you can change aspect ratio of TV . One of the choices makes gray bars black!! Finally, one of the things that irritated me about the Toshiba is taken care of. Is this available with Direct TV or cable? Just curious. My wife and I are both very happy about this

Originally posted by Rudy1
...I've read in the past that, if there's to be any scaling of a DVD signal, it is better to have this done in the "digital domain"----that is, before the signal leaves the player.

Hmmm Rudy1, this makes me think about the HDTVs digital-analog-digital conversion issue mentioned around (can you point to somewhere this is explained?); said issue indicates that all signals received by the TV are processed that way. If that holds then some of what's happening makes sense.

I'm understanding that the players and STBs digitally reconfigure the image, adding or substracting pixels for the set resolution. The signal goes thru HDMI and converted to analog so the TV can digitize to 720p. If this is so, then a 1080i analog signal, having more information, should look better than an analog 720p signal when digitizing back.

Interesting. Could that be the answer?

Originally posted by Rudy1
My comment is based on my own tests using titles such as "Blade Runner", "The Fifth Element", and "Event Horizon". I go with what looks best to my eyes, and with a couple of the players I've tested (I won't name them) running 480p via HDMI into the Toshiba DLP resulted in an image that was nice, but not particularly outstanding. Having these players scale the signal to 1080i produced a more lifelike, sharper, and more detailed image.

I've read in the past that, if there's to be any scaling of a DVD signal, it is better to have this done in the "digital domain"----that is, before the signal leaves the player. Rudy1, that's what I was wondering. Thanks for the feedback. As far as the digital domain goes, if you look at the circuit design on these sets the HDMI signal is kept intact so there isn't any D/A and A/D conversion. Therefore, it shouldn't matter where the scaling occurs. Based on your results, the player does appear to have a better scaler than what is in the display. I am still puzzled as to why 1080i provides a better PQ than 720p. The display still needs to convert it to 720p.:confused:

Maybe there's no true scaling in the TV, just a resizing, like in my computer example. Maybe the Genesis chip does the D-A-D thing. Hmmm, this calls for a deeper search.

I was able to resolve the lines issue by powering down the TV and starting it again however I see a green glow all along the left side of the TV.

Its not significant all the time but is quite a distraction for scenes with white background or the likes.

Anybody faced this issue before ...I am running 'cool' colur temperature and '0' tint.

Thanks in advance for any help

Hey Fantosh, those settings don't sound good. Search in the thread for better settings.

kdog044 and Rudy1 at this link:

http://www.tvone.com/upconpage.shtml

I read that upconverting deals with de-interlacing, converting to progressive, and motion compensate, besides other things. Very interesting is that they sale upconverters that output a 1080i signal which really is a double 540p...you'd think that'll look better than 720p?

I sent them an e-mail.

Julio Bro! & kdog044,

I don't have any specific links where the whole "scaling in the digital domain" thing has been discussed. However, I have done a good deal of experimentation which seems to support the statements made in these articles. As for 540p, I have yet to see an implementation of that resolution that produced an image I was happy with. The picture always appeared "soft".

With the Toshiba models which recommend the use of 1080i signals, I think the scaler has been optimized at the factory to deal best with that resolution. I guess if you feed the display more information than it needs, you won't end up with an unacceptable picture once the resizing is done and pixels are "thrown away". According to this article (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1744387,00.asp), you risk introducing errors any time the signal has to be modified in any way.

I know a lot of enthusiasts prefer to rely on test signals and charts to determine what resolution to feed from their DVD players and outboard tuners to their displays, but I don't spend time watching test signals or charts....I watch movies. I chose to feed a 720p signal from my OTA/QAM PVR to the Toshiba DLP simply because text is much sharper at that resolution whether via component or DVI. The TV's scaler may indeed be very good, but I find the PQ I get from using a DVD player's internal scaling (to 720p and 1080i) to be much more "pleasing". It is noticeably sharper, and the colors have more "presence". And with a very good quality title (such as the SuperBit version of "Bram Stoker's Dracula"), the picture appears almost as good as true HDTV. In fact, I've compared a DVHS recording of that movie to the DVD and found the main difference to be in the increased detail and enhanced texture of fabrics and skin.

Hi Julio Bro! and all the Guru's out there

Does settings have anything to do with grainyness and pixelation particularly when that is happening irrespective of what connection I use..coaxial/composite ...s-video?

I hooked up my old non p-scan Sony DVD and even in that picture I see pixelation and double lines.

I am thinking of putting a call to Tosh service.

Any inputs?

You know what Rudy1? You're right!

Listen everyone, page 15 of the Toshiba HM units manual indicates:

"The HDMI input is designed for best performance with 1080i high-definition video signals, but will also accept and display 480i, 480p, and 720p signals."

Also in the Notes of page 12:

"The ColorStream HD1/HD2 and HDMI jacks can be used with Progressive (480p, 720p) and Interlaced (480i,1080i) scan systems; however, a 1080i signal will provide the best picture performance."

That's it, simply the Toshiba scaler has been designed for optimum performance when a 1080i signal is detected in the HDMI connection. So, it doesn't matter that the native resolution is 720p, the display is designed for a better presentation with 1080i.

Now all is a matter of choosing good 1080i equipment and leave it there, because that is what the Toshiba DLPs need.

That's not to say I'm still curious as to why they chose this road (I'll still say that's probably because 1080i has more information) and how it goes around double scaling. But as to what you should set your equipment, at least for first choice...there should be no doubt in our minds.

Originally posted by FANTOSH
Hi Julio Bro! and all the Guru's out there

Does settings have anything to do with grainyness and pixelation particularly when that is happening irrespective of what connection I use..coaxial/composite ...s-video?

I hooked up my old non p-scan Sony DVD and even in that picture I see pixelation and double lines.

I am thinking of putting a call to Tosh service.

Any inputs?

Short version:

* Get progressive; but HDMI is better if in budget.

* Good cables, no longer than 5m.

* Cable/sat signal booster.

* Low-loss splitters for coax cables (Monster make gigahertz units).

* UPS with voltage regulation.

* AVIA or other good quality video setup DVD.

Get going with this and then come back if any trouble arises.

I called customer support on the whole 720p vs 1080i and they couldn't give me a good explanation. It makes no sense for the display to touch the signal if the scaler in the DVD player can output the native resolution. If you want my opinion the verbiage in those manuals was carried over from the CRT ones where the native resolution was 1080i. I think they just do a poor job of updating the new ones. Of course this is only opinion and you know what they say about them.:D

I have a problem with my 62hm84. After a few hours of watching, my picture goes out. I get sound but no pic. i try to change the input, but it wont display anything on the screen. The bulb is still on, just no pic. The screen looks like it does when you turn it off (with instant restart ON).
Its black but you can tell that its still on. Anyone have this problem yet. ITs ony happened 3 times, twice in the last few days. Once the TV was on for about 12 hours. A few days later it was only on for an hour or two. I need to turn it off, let it completely turn off (10 min). then when i turn it back on its fine???? The service tech is coming out Monday. Any ideas? Ive had no other problems with this TV.
thx bryan

I've also heard that parts of the manual is carried over from the CRT manuals. I have no proof of this though. Perhaps someone with a newer Toshiba CRT could actually do a search for the exact sentence and see if it is word for word. If this manual was created specifically for the DLP it should not be the same.

Well it is confirmed. I downloaded the manual for the 65H84 a CRT projection television. The verbage is EXACT pertaining to 1080i. It is even on page 12 as well! I know that this does not mean that keeping the player at 1080i is not the best . It just means that the manuals are pretty much the same for 2 very different systems.

Originally posted by bigdaddy10
I've also heard that parts of the manual is carried over from the CRT manuals. I have no proof of this though. Perhaps someone with a newer Toshiba CRT could actually do a search for the exact sentence and see if it is word for word. If this manual was created specifically for the DLP it should not be the same. Okay here you go.

This is from the component section of the 51H84 CRT manual.

The ColorStream HD1/HD2 and HDMI jacks
can be used with Progressive (480p, 720p)
and Interlaced (480i,1080i) scan systems;
however, a 1080i signal will provide the best
picture performance.

This is from the component section of the52HMX84 manual.

The ColorStream HD1/HD2 and HDMI1/2
inputs can be used with Progressive (480p,
720p) and Interlaced (480i, 1080i) scan
systems; however, a 1080i signal will provide
the best picture performance.

Sounds identical to me. :rolleyes:

This is from the HDMI section of the 52HMX84 manual.

The HDMI inputs are designed for best performance
with 1080i high-definition video signals, but will also
accept and display 480i, 480p, and 720p signals.

The only difference in the HDMI section of the 52HMX94 manual

The HDMI inputs are designed for best performance
with 720p and 1080i high-definition video signals, but will also
accept and display 480i, 480p, and 720p signals.

Notice 720p is mentioned twice, kind of redundant don't you think. I should get a job as technical writer for Toshiba, all you need to know how to do is cut and paste.:D

I also checked the HDMI section of the 51H84 and the 52HM84 and they are almost word for word also.

The 52HM84

The HDMI[1] input on your TV receives digital audio
and uncompressed digital video from an HDMI
device or uncompressed digital video from a DVI[2]
device.
This input is designed to accept HDCP[3] program
material in digital form from EIA/CEA-861/861B–
compliant[4] consumer electronic devices (such as a settop
box or DVD player with HDMI or DVI output).
The HDMI input is designed for best performance
with 1080i high-definition video signals, but will also
accept and display 480i, 480p, and 720p signals.

The 51H84

HDMI1 (High Definition Multimedia Interface) is the first all digital
consumer electronics A/V interface that supports an uncompressed
standard. One jack supports both video and audio information.
The HDMI input on your TV is designed to accept HDMI program
material in digital form from EIA/CEA-861/861B–compliant2
consumer electronic devices, such as a set-top box or DVD player
equipped with a HDMI or DVI output connection.3

Maybe you accidentally hit one of the buttons on your remote, knocking it off of the tv/video channel that it is supposed to be on. maybe that'll help.

Sorry ^^^^that was intended for bmob6633's question.

nope, the tv wont even display the volume bar or even the input selection

Did anyone hear of toshiba releasing a 72" Dlp? I believe I saw it in the BB system but will have to double check.

Hmmm, the fact that manuals have these identical indications is...curious...and could be disturbing too. But what they could mean is that all these units were design to work best with a 1080i signal, and the evidence suggest it's true. Almost everyone that has tested with these signals experience better images with 1080i.

I understand it's hard to accept given the knowledge that a one-one match should be perfect, but apparently its not what they chose...those are fixed electronics people, theres nothing we can do if the TV will process 1080i better.

And besides, why would they recommend a setting that would look inferior?

Anyway, I'll too e-mail Toshiba on the subject, see if I can get a brainier technician.

Originally posted by FANTOSH
I was able to resolve the lines issue by powering down the TV and starting it again however I see a green glow all along the left side of the TV.

Its not significant all the time but is quite a distraction for scenes with white background or the likes.

Anybody faced this issue before ...I am running 'cool' colur temperature and '0' tint.

Thanks in advance for any help

I don't have a Dish set up and have no clue as to how things are set up with them. However, with my cable set up i get the best picture using component cables. Also make sure your connections are tight. Also, your settings seem very strange. You will have to experiment to find the best settings for you but this is what I have for mine:

For cable box hookup
Contrast 66
Brightness 45
Color 55
Tint 0
Sharpness 25
Color Temp Medium

For direct cable hookup on ANT1
Contrast 65
Brightness 45
Color 50
Tint -15
Sharpness 25
Color Temp Medium

Rudy1

I think that your conclusion makes the most sense. The Tosh is designed for an optimized 1080i output. The assumption that there is a clean, unprocessed digital or DAD flow to the screen is erroneous. The signal is always processed, regardless of the input (480p, 720p, 1080i). That is simply how the set is opimized and designed. There is really no direct flow of pixal/output regardless of how we might imagine that there is one. Perhaps this is because, especially in the case of DVD's, that it is assumed that there may be scaling issues and hence the signal is processed to insure accomodation within the geometry of the screen.

Just some thoughts.

an

First post here after lurking for a while before going for the Toshiba.

System details
TV = 52HM84 mfrdate:01/05
Xbox connected via Monster Component cables to Component input #1
Xbox settings = WS(yes) 480p (on), 720p (on), 1080i (on)
Dashboard @ 480p by both thumb-sticks and triggers pressed.


1st question is:
Does anyone else need to stretch (to 'Full') the Dashboard to fill the screen even with widescreen turned on?
note: consider the TV remembers the full setting if used...

2nd question:
Apply #1 to Halo 2 as it comes up in 4:3 unless put to Full. (I thought that the last H2 update was supposed to fix the HDTV widescreen thing.)

Lastly...I can't remember, but I thought 'Full' was not an option if you were receiving a HD signal. At least that's how it works with the local HD channels. Only Natural and Theaterwide 1-3 are available, while the Xbox still has Full not grayed out. Is the Xbox not flagging its HD signal right?

Mark - Happy Toshiba DLP owner

Halo2 or any other 480p 16x9 enabled game on xbox needs to be streched via the FULL option.

The reason for this is that 480p is not true HD, true HD is either 720p or 1080i and some day 1080p , which are all native 16x9.

fyi The new Splinter Cell Chaos THeory acts the same way (demo from xbox mag), if you put to full screen the hud and all are correctly placed and nothing looks fatter then it shoot be, as is the case when something is not really 16x9 and you strech to full screen. THIS GAME LOOKS INSANE , look forward to its release end of the month!

TAG on to above....

Amped 2 which is A 720p Native game, will not require you to set to full as this game is true HD it will fill the screen set to Natural.

This Game Looks Insane and is one of the best looking games for your Toshiba DLP HD XBOX Gaming Experience!

BMW Brian M Walker
ps those are my intials, I can not afford one as I spend all my money on Etoys!

Originally posted by DanofNJ
I think that your conclusion makes the most sense. The Tosh is designed for an optimized 1080i output. The assumption that there is a clean, unprocessed digital or DAD flow to the screen is erroneous. The signal is always processed, regardless of the input (480p, 720p, 1080i). Dan, I don't know what your definition of processed is but if using HDMI the signal does stay digital (i.e. no D/A and A/D conversion). When a 720p signal is sent to the display there is no scaling and that is what I would define as "processing". I'm sorry but I don't buy the fact that the system is "designed" for an optimized 1080i output. Any time you can leave a signal intact or eliminate a second conversion (as would be the case if using an upconverting DVD player set to 1080i) as opposed to scaling/deinterlacing you should get a better and at a minimum equal PQ.

Personally, I think it's just that Toshiba does a poor job of updating their manuals and if using an upconverting player you should test a 480i/480p vs a 720p signal. If the 720p is better you can assume the player has a better scaler and that is what I would use. If not, you might still get a benefit from using the HDMI output as opposed to component.

For a STB, if you don't have a native "pass-through" option, you should test a 720p signal with the STB set to 1080i and a 1080i signal with the STB set to 720p to evaluate the STB's scaler/deinterlacer. If you are not happy with the result than most likely the display has a better scaler/deinterlacer. In this case, you should probably set the STB to 1080i so the display handles most of the scaling/deinterlacing. Only FOX, ESPN, and ABC broadcast in 720p. Some people actually switch the STB to 720p when viewing these stations.

But K, what about the people that had better results watching 1080i from upconverting players? That should be tested too.

One thing to clear up, all this signals are being processed one way or another, this is well explained in the link from Rudy1. From DVD they are decompressed (which needs error correction) and filtered, pixels added (don't know how) and lines doubled for upscaling.

From broadcast, if the camera is digital then the data is compressed for transmission, but if the camera is analog the signals are digitized and then compressed. For cable/sat they are mixed with other channel signals which are then chosen by the STB, decompressed and, depending on output, rescaled.

The purest you could get is problably 480p from DVD, direct input from a camera, and over the air HD transmissions, and even then these are processed either by the STB, player and the TV. Not to understate what is said about the 720p match, it's just that whatever the TV is receiving is usually processed at some point.

The camera example is an interesting one because, from a Meg point of view, a digital camera could be feeding a gigantic 5Meg picture to be shown on a 1Meg screen. 1080i is aprox. 2.1 Megapixels. Which undergoes more processing?

Originally posted by Julio Bro!
But K, what about the people that had better results watching 1080i from upconverting players? That should be tested too. From what I have seen most people don't seem to notice much difference between 1080i and 720p. I don't recall reading many responses of better PQ going to 1080i on FP displays with a native 720p resolution unless the player has issues with 720p. I believe there was an issue with either a Samsung or Zenith and 720p.

Originally posted by kdog044
From what I have seen most people don't seem to notice much difference between 1080i and 720p. I don't recall reading many responses of better PQ going to 1080i on FP displays with a native 720p resolution unless the player has issues with 720p. I believe there was an issue with either a Samsung or Zenith and 720p.

Zenith 318 performs bad in 720p but looks really good in 1080i. This is due to the player not the display.
Btw. I do use my S97 in 720p mode to the 62hmx84 via HDMI and at least in my tests for most movies/DVE it does look better than 480p and TV scaling. There is very little difference in PQ between S97 in 1080 and 720 but I give 720 a tiny plus over 1080.

Originally posted by Starc
Btw. I do use my S97 in 720p mode to the 62hmx84 via HDMI and at least in my tests for most movies/DVE it does look better than 480p and TV scaling. There is very little difference in PQ between S97 in 1080 and 720 but I give 720 a tiny plus over 1080. Starc, thanks for the feedback. I was hoping to hear from people like yourself who have tested the upconverting player at 480p as opposed to scaling in the player. The Panasonic is on my short list so I probably will choose an upconverting player as opposed to a standard progressive, although I may try out the Sony 775 and compare.

I am now in deep deep mourning. I am not getting my 62HMX94. The store I bought it from kept missing my delivery dates and on the 3rd missed date I told them I would get a refund if it was not in my family room by 12:00 3/5/05. They are unable to accomodate. I got the television at such a good price I hate to walk away from it but enough is enough. I'll just keep on waiting until another sweet deal comes across. I feel as if I've been stabbed.

Originally posted by bmw_68
Halo2 or any other 480p 16x9 enabled game on xbox needs to be streched via the FULL option.

The reason for this is that 480p is not true HD, true HD is either 720p or 1080i and some day 1080p , which are all native 16x9.

fyi The new Splinter Cell Chaos THeory acts the same way (demo from xbox mag), if you put to full screen the hud and all are correctly placed and nothing looks fatter then it shoot be, as is the case when something is not really 16x9 and you strech to full screen. THIS GAME LOOKS INSANE , look forward to its release end of the month!

Alrightly, that's easily understandable but one question remains for this wondering mind of mine...In order for "Full" to be grayed out, the signal must be 720p/1080i? Haven't tried any 720p+ games yet. I can see this when watching HDTV from my Motorola HD box, that full is not an option because it is set to 1080i output right?

Mark

Hey guys,

I finally got my ATI dongle and hooked up my 62HM84. I was wondering if anyone else who has hooked up their computer to their Toshibas can comment on whether they have a cleaner picture than I do?

From some of the posts, it sounded like people were getting computer-monitor quality text, but as you can see from some of my pictures (below), it is pretty fuzzy (and I find it really hard on the eyes). I'm running the latest catalyst drivers and a set of A/R Component Cables.

http://www.zenkei.com/image1.jpg
http://www.zenkei.com/image2.jpg
http://www.zenkei.com/image3.jpg

Do I have a "ghosting" set?

mightytaco,

You may want to check through this page of the thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=438276&perpage=20&highlight=ATI&pagenumber=67

Perhaps you should PM Snills as he was successful getting his PC to connect. I don't recall many complaints with ghosting over component connections, mainly HDMI.

well, i've had my 62hm84 for a couple of weeks now and am very happy with it! Bought it from BB, they matched the lowest price i could find on the internet! Only I negotiated for a brand new one and when the time came for it to arrive it suddenly dissappeared along with the stand that i paid for!
To make a long story short, they found a display model at another store and personnally drove there and picked it up for me (after my wife and I complained)! I ended up buying the stand online. Even though it was a display model (manufacture date is nov 2004) It now has a new home!

By the way can anyone tell me what is a good antenna to buy for receiving
over the air hd broadcast? I live about 60-70 miles from the stations.

Also is the Avia disc for calibration pretty much the best one to buy??

thanks in advance! and appreciate all the useful info on here, it helped me
in making my decision on the tosh!

Originally posted by tom_baldridge
By the way can anyone tell me what is a good antenna to buy for receiving
over the air hd broadcast? I live about 60-70 miles from the stations.
I would plug in your address at antennaweb.org to find out what type you need. For indoor antennas the Zenith Silver Sensor gets good reviews. For outdoor ones I hear good things about the Channel Master 4221 and 4228.

Has anyone in this forum had any problems with onecall? I'm about to buy a television from them and I'm just checking to see if they are as good as they sound.

Also, If you have gotten the toshiba dlp from them, what is the build date in comparison to when you received the television. I think that the newer televisions are having less problems then the older ones. Hardly anymore rumblings about ghosting.

Originally posted by bigdaddy10
Onecall has the panny for a really good price. Wrong thread bigdaddy.;)

Originally posted by kdog044
Wrong thread bigdaddy.;)



Sorry guys I deleted it. I'm still hankering for a Toshiba, but the prices for the Panny is really good.

Originally posted by bigdaddy10
Sorry guys I deleted it. I'm still hankering for a Toshiba, but the prices for the Panny is really good. No problem, they are both nice sets but as my wife says "It's all about the inches".:D

i'm really happy with my purchase from onecall. they even called a few days later just to say thank you. a small thing, but very few people or places do it anymore.

build date is february 2005, i got it 2 weeks ago.

Originally posted by kdog044
For indoor antennas the Zenith Silver Sensor gets good reviews.

I ordered a silver sensor from amazon.com in late January. They were unable to deliver it and apparently no longer stock it. I have not had success finding it available from other suppliers.

Originally posted by bigdaddy10
Has anyone in this forum had any problems with onecall? I'm about to buy a television from them and I'm just checking to see if they are as good as they sound.

Also, If you have gotten the toshiba dlp from them, what is the build date in comparison to when you received the television. I think that the newer televisions are having less problems then the older ones. Hardly anymore rumblings about ghosting.

I have purchased three monitors from OneCall, the latest being the 52HM84. I ordered it on line 30 January, they called to confirm my order on 31 January and I had possession of it 2 February in LA. It has a build date of January 2005. They also followed up with a phone call to see if I was happy with the service.:)

I definitely will purchase from them again AND again!! No pushy unknowledgeable salespersons to deal with. In fact the previous monitor I ordered in 2001 was out of stock and they gave me a 2002 model for the same price!!

Thank you all so much for your replies on Onecall. My decision is made, as soon as my bank account shows the return from the previous store I will order from Onecall. This forum has definately proven to be an invaluable resource for me. I'm really happy to know about the build dates. I was hoping that they were not warehousing televisions for months and months. Thanks to all of your input I now know this is not true.

I got my set from (through) onecall last November. It had softwqare version of Nov 4, 2004 . Due to the TV guide problems, Toshiba sent me a replacement set just this February since they had no parts for the unit available yet, and still believed the guide problem was in the set, not the software. The second set received in February had a serial number of 23401742, versus the earlier set with SN 23400215 and the same November 4 sotware version date . I have not seen the so called ghosting on either set on any digital input, antenna or otherwise, but I am on Antenna and on input from a samsung and a LG LST3410A and C band Satellite. Was there a cable band problem with the set in the cable card input, or am I missing something?

Originally posted by mightytaco
Hey guys,

I finally got my ATI dongle and hooked up my 62HM84. I was wondering if anyone else who has hooked up their computer to their Toshibas can comment on whether they have a cleaner picture than I do?

From some of the posts, it sounded like people were getting computer-monitor quality text, but as you can see from some of my pictures (below), it is pretty fuzzy (and I find it really hard on the eyes). I'm running the latest catalyst drivers and a set of A/R Component Cables.

http://www.zenkei.com/image1.jpg
http://www.zenkei.com/image2.jpg
http://www.zenkei.com/image3.jpg

Do I have a "ghosting" set?


I also have the component dongle and have been experimenting with component and DVI-HDMI setups. It's been kind of tricky to get a combination I like as far as picture quality and overscan and at the same time still being able to use my analog CRT monitor. Even though I can run dual displays with the ATI Radeon 9800 Pro, the problem I am running into is since I am still working from the same desktop, if I get it to look right on my analog monitor it does not fill the Toshiba screen without stretching it and if I get it to look good on the Toshiba it looks squashed on my analog monitor. I think the only true solution might be a dedicated PC for the Toshiba.

Anyway, here is a closeup pic of PC text on mine. This was using HDMI with a 1280x720p setting (or something close to it). I found when I tried a 1920x1080i setting the text looked worse (like yours does). However when I had a cablebox hooked up through component that always looked better on 1080i than 720p.


Jeff

anyone worried about the tosh going for cheap prices, like maybe they are giving up on this model and working on the new one, escpecially with the ghosting probs, my tech called toshiba and said they have heard nothing about the issue, has anyone reports the ghosting. and if i persist i have a service plan could i get the set replaced?

You might be better off getting a decent roof UHF or combination antenna. Indoor antennas are not a match for a roof antenna. Amplification is no substitute for gain.

I performed a little test on a Toshiba 52HM84. I brought over my LG DVB418 and hooked it up through the HDMI port. I also had the Sony DVP-NS775 hooked up with componenet cables. I put a copy of the Fifth Element in each DVD player and compared. I can honestly tell you that the upconverter works. The LG had more color and more detail throughout the entire screen. I was amazed at the clarity differences. I used monster component cables on the Sony and I used a $22.00 6ft HDMI cable that I bought from Sams club on the LG. I also had the LG set at 1080i........and yes the picture looked best at 1080i.

Initially I had a really bad jaggedy picture with the LG but after setting it up and here is the most important part..............I cut the television off then back on and VOILA! Near HD quality picture. No ghosting either.

Originally posted by bigdaddy10
I performed a little test on a Toshiba 52HM84. I brought over my LG DVB418 and hooked it up through the HDMI port. I also had the Sony DVP-NS775 hooked up with componenet cables. I put a copy of the Fifth Element in each DVD player and compared. I can honestly tell you that the upconverter works. The LG had more color and more detail throughout the entire screen. I was amazed at the clarity differences. I used monster component Did you calibrate both inputs separately? If so, what differences did you find between the settings? I'm curious as to your overall impressions of the Sony 775?

I gave both settings(HDMI and Colorstream1) the same values in each parameter. I also tried tweaking both settings within the DVD player as well. I could not ever get close to the clarity and detail on the Sony that I saw on the LG. If I had never seen the LG I would say that the Sony looked good but after I saw it compared to the upconverter it just came up short.

Originally posted by bigdaddy10
I performed a little test on a Toshiba 52HM84. I brought over my LG DVB418 and hooked it up through the HDMI port. I also had the Sony DVP-NS775 hooked up with componenet cables. I put a copy of the Fifth Element in each DVD player and compared. I can honestly tell you that the upconverter works. The LG had more color and more detail throughout the entire screen. I was amazed at the clarity differences. I used monster component cables on the Sony and I used a $22.00 6ft HDMI cable that I bought from Sams club on the LG. I also had the LG set at 1080i........and yes the picture looked best at 1080i.

Initially I had a really bad jaggedy picture with the LG but after setting it up and here is the most important part..............I cut the television off then back on and VOILA! Near HD quality picture. No ghosting either.

In response to my own quote I'd like to say.....I never noticed all the freckles on the flight attendants faces in The Fifth Element. I remember noticing it before but my goodness ......you could really see every freckle and every wrinkle on their faces. Eye opening experience.

I haven't fooled much with dvd, and maybe I am not picky enough, but the off the air picture on my 62HM94 is stunning even with non HD digital. Somehow Toshiba(maybe others too) sharpens the picture to the extent that when examined up close, every DLP mirror is independant and I see no ghosting or blurring. If there is a fixed image such as a channel logo or name on screen as a background image moves behind the image of the logo there is some flicker on the logo edges "ghosting?" . I'm not sure what others are seeing and calling ghosting, but on my set OTA is great. Maybe some cable or small dish has a bad signal, but for me, the OTA and C band HD satellite picture is as good as it could be with the number of mirrors in the DLP chip.
Were I to have a complaint it would be that the picture, even on "Movie, low power" is a bit bright for night time viewing and if the room is dark, I sometimes prefer to watch HD shows on my Infocus X! with a softer, more movie like image on the 8 ft screen albeit lower resolution.

Originally posted by bigdaddy10
I gave both settings(HDMI and Colorstream1) the same values in each parameter. I also tried tweaking both settings within the DVD player as well. I could not ever get close to the clarity and detail on the Sony that I saw on the LG. If I had never seen the LG I would say that the Sony looked good but after I saw it compared to the upconverter it just came up short. Did you find any issues with Y/C delay or pixel cropping? Isn't the LG similar to the Zenith? If so, it might explain your results with 1080i as the player didn't report good results over 720p. Dis you compare both at 480p? If so, what were your results with just the component vs HDMI?

Sorry about all the questions but it looks like I will be buying both my display and DVD player in the next week so I'm trying to nail down my choices.

Thanks Jeff,

I'll try the 720p setting and see if I can get it a bit cleaner. I was hoping to use the TV for my digital photo editing and other general purpose, but after using the set just to set up FFD Show, my eyes were feeling very tired because of the "fuzziness". I'll post some pictures with the difference.

Thanks again,
T

Originally posted by kdog044
Did you find any issues with Y/C delay or pixel cropping? Isn't the LG similar to the Zenith? If so, it might explain your results with 1080i as the player didn't report good results over 720p. Dis you compare both at 480p? If so, what were your results with just the component vs HDMI?

Sorry about all the questions but it looks like I will be buying both my display and DVD player in the next week so I'm trying to nail down my choices.


The LG still had more detail at 480P, at 480i they looked pretty much the same. The 480i image was still very good but once I went up to 1080i on the LG that made the biggest difference. The picture was just much more clear and detailed. When I used the fast forward function on the LG I could see all kinds of jaggies but in normal speed the picture was beautiful. The Sony did not show any jaggies no matter what speed I had the fast forward at.

Unfortunately I did not try any other type of material only the Fifth Element. I was so impressed by the LG I returned the Sony Sunday night before CC closed.

Originally posted by bigdaddy10
Unfortunately I did not try any other type of material only the Fifth Element. I was so impressed by the LG I returned the Sony Sunday night before CC closed. What is their return policy? It was hard to decipher on the web site if there is a restocking fee for opened merchandise.

Originally posted by phlewt
I ordered a silver sensor from amazon.com in late January. They were unable to deliver it and apparently no longer stock it. I have not had success finding it available from other suppliers.

The same antenna is sold under different names. For example Walmart has it as: Philips HDTV Indoor Antenna, PHDTV1

Originally posted by kdog044
What is their return policy? It was hard to decipher on the web site if there is a restocking fee for opened merchandise.


No No No my brother......no restocking fee. I asked them this before I bought it. I bought both dvd players at the same time and I told them I wanted to see which dvd player worked best with the television and the remote that came with the television. I paid cash for the DVd player and they put cash right back in my hand.

Bigdaddy10
What Setting are you using on Your LG dvb418?
I have the Same DVD player and I love it too, just have not calibrated it using DVD such as AVE and also is their any Setting within the DVD player that you recommend?

For what it's worth, I returned a LG DVB418 this weekend to CC. No restocking fee, and I paid by credit card.

The reasons I returned the LG were:

1. The standby light is annoying. It glows bright red when the unit is powered off and turns off when the power is on. Quite annoying, especially when viewing in a dimly lit room.

2. Many, many skipped frames on videos shot from our Sony DCD-200 video camera that records directly to DVD. I tried several disks and several scenes on each disk. The LG really choked on it, no matter what resolution I chose.

3. The LG simply locked up on a Baby Einstein Baby Bach DVD my kids were watching. None of the controls on the remote worked and even controls on the front panel were frozen. I couldn't even open the drawer to retrieve the DVD! I had to pull the power cord and essentially reboot. Kinda had that Windows hang feel to it, so back it went.

4. Really, really slow response to commands input from the remote or on the unit itself.

I bought a Pioneer 578a instead. It was about 25% less expensive than the LG and so far so good.

Originally posted by vardog
For what it's worth, I returned a LG DVB418 this weekend to CC. No restocking fee, and I paid by credit card.

The reasons I returned the LG were:

1. The standby light is annoying. It glows bright red when the unit is powered off and turns off when the power is on. Quite annoying, especially when viewing in a dimly lit room.

2. Many, many skipped frames on videos shot from our Sony DCD-200 video camera that records directly to DVD. I tried several disks and several scenes on each disk. The LG really choked on it, no matter what resolution I chose.

3. The LG simply locked up on a Baby Einstein Baby Bach DVD my kids were watching. None of the controls on the remote worked and even controls on the front panel were frozen. I couldn't even open the drawer to retrieve the DVD! I had to pull the power cord and essentially reboot. Kinda had that Windows hang feel to it, so back it went.

4. Really, really slow response to commands input from the remote or on the unit itself.

I bought a Pioneer 578a instead. It was about 25% less expensive than the LG and so far so good.


I had none of those issues with the LG DVD player although I have heard from others in posts that have had the same issues as yourself. I've now watched 6 movies in the LG and have yet not seen a single skip or delay. I like how thin the DVD player is and how much actual weight it has to it. It feels like a solid built piece of equipment. I'll put in one of the older DVD's that the kids have played hundreds of times and see if I have any issues.

Originally posted by bmw_68
Bigdaddy10
What Setting are you using on Your LG dvb418?
I have the Same DVD player and I love it too, just have not calibrated it using DVD such as AVE and also is their any Setting within the DVD player that you recommend?


I copied the settings that ndahbar posted several months ago. He went through the entire Avia set up and they seem to be dead on for me. I've yet to see any HD content on this television though, you may to need to adjust accordingly. I'm awaiting a refund from a local B&M before I can order the 62HMX94 from Onecall. My sister has the 52hm84 and I tested everything on her television. She has cable and the cable company here (Charter) has been out of HD boxes for over a month. Here is the link to the settings.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4505601&highlight=Tint#post4505601

Thanks! I just iput those and they do look Very Nice!
HDNET never Looked So GOOD!

Didn't want to waste anyones time and did a search on this but didn't see an answer. I've had my 52HMX94 for a couple months now... love it. Got a few questions but will address one at a time. I noticed today that the fan runs constantly even when off. I changed the "quick restart" to off but still runs. Not annoying (yet) but always runs. I know that anything that always runs will fail sooner. Anyone else notice this? Is it normal? Thanks... for input!!!

As far as I can tell, the fan(s) will run once turned off but only until the bulb is cool. Thakes about 5 minutes maybe before the fan shuts down.

I was doing some searching for upconverting dvd players and saw a new
samsung, model #dvd-hd850 that is due out this month. MSRP is $199.
it has hdmi output...sounds pretty good. another model is due out in june,
the dvd-hd950, a little bit more expensive. Just thought I'd add my 2cents.

Thanks Bill.... now it makes me really wonder....:confused:

Originally posted by tom_baldridge
I was doing some searching for upconverting dvd players and saw a new
samsung, model #dvd-hd850 that is due out this month. MSRP is $199.
it has hdmi output...sounds pretty good. another model is due out in june,
the dvd-hd950, a little bit more expensive. Just thought I'd add my 2cents.


If you do buy one of the samsung dvd players make sure you take it through numerous tests. The Samsung upconverting dvd players have a really bad reputation. If you look in the DVD forum you'll see that very few people are happy with them. Hopefully they have worked out the bugs with these new players. The previous plyers had real issues with passing black detail. The picture was really dark and it did not have any detail in the darkest areas(black crush). The players also did not have any way to tweak the picture through the dvd player itself.

Originally posted by Dice
Didn't want to waste anyones time and did a search on this but didn't see an answer. I've had my 52HMX94 for a couple months now... love it. Got a few questions but will address one at a time. I noticed today that the fan runs constantly even when off. I changed the "quick restart" to off but still runs. Not annoying (yet) but always runs. I know that anything that always runs will fail sooner. Anyone else notice this? Is it normal? Thanks... for input!!!

There are 3 fans in the '94' models. 1 for the lamp, 1 for the heatsink on the light engine, and 1 for the "POD" or cablecard (they call it POD on the schematic). The POD fan is the one that stays on all the time.

Jeff

Originally posted by bmob6633
I have a problem with my 62hm84. After a few hours of watching, my picture goes out. I get sound but no pic. i try to change the input, but it wont display anything on the screen. The bulb is still on, just no pic. The screen looks like it does when you turn it off (with instant restart ON).
Its black but you can tell that its still on. Anyone have this problem yet. ITs ony happened 3 times, twice in the last few days. Once the TV was on for about 12 hours. A few days later it was only on for an hour or two. I need to turn it off, let it completely turn off (10 min). then when i turn it back on its fine???? The service tech is coming out Monday. Any ideas? Ive had no other problems with this TV.
thx bryan


well the tech was out today. i turned my tv on about 12:00 pm on hi-bright mode (just to max it out). at 3:00 pm volia!!!!!! I lost the picture. i left the tv on. At 4:00 pm the tech showed up and saw what was going on. He then turned it off and on. still no picture. so then he unpluged it for about 10 sec. then pluged it back in and turned it on. It tried to power up then shut down. he then turned it on again (same thing) (the green led flashed a few times(he said it was a error code , but didnt get a chance to count the flashes)) He then tried to turn it on again ( to count the flashes) ....
but it came on this time. It has now been on for 3 hours and still working.
He said hes going to check with toshiba, but he hasnt seen a service bulliten about this yet. I have a feeling this is going to be a long and slow fix. Im about to be annoyed. Oh, and he wants me to unplug it when it happens again and count the flashes when i try to turn it back on.
Isnt unpluging it while its cooling bad for it???? also forcing it back on when its not ready ???
help?

then how many fans in 84 models (HM/X)? for what purpose?

I use SPL to measure noise level, SPL touches lamp door.
when power on, it's about 44dB; power off, about 30dB.
so I think as soon as power off, fan stops since almost silent (quick restart is off).
then I set 'quick restart' to on, fan keeps running for about 4 min after shut TV off.

so should I turn 'quick restart' on or off to help cooling hot lamp and extend lamp lifetime?

Originally posted by whjeffs
There are 3 fans in the '94' models. 1 for the lamp, 1 for the heatsink on the light engine, and 1 for the "POD" or cablecard (they call it POD on the schematic). The POD fan is the one that stays on all the time.

Jeff

The diagram for the '84' series only shows the 2 fans (1 for the lamp, 1 for the heat sink).
I think you are definitely better off with the Quick Restart feature ON. Not only does it keep the fan on longer but it also switches the lamp to a lower output until the restart time limit is reached and the lamp is shut off. I think it has to be less of a shock to the lamp to go from full power to low power to off than straight from full power to off. It does the same thing when you turn it on too (regardless of Quick Restart setting). If you watch the screen for the first minute or so that the lamp is coming on you will notice that the brightness gradually increases for awhile then it will jump to full brightness.


Jeff

Originally posted by AkaStp
Have you tried Sears?

The Sears website has been showing a status of "Temporarily out of stock for delivery.." ever since I ordered it from amazon.com.

Originally posted by Starc
The same antenna is sold under different names. For example Walmart has it as: Philips HDTV Indoor Antenna, PHDTV1

Walmart does show the PHDTV1 being "in stock". The price is about twice as much as the amazon.com price, however.

I finally gave up waiting and purchased an outdoor "UHF only" antenna from Radio Shack and put it in my attic. All is working well with this antenna, so I am no longer looking for the silver sensor. I still wonder what has happened to make it so difficult to find, and so expensive at places that do carry it.

Are there discrete codes (for universal remote controls) available for these sets? I'd be interested in discrete on/off, and input select. Thanks.

Originally posted by tom_baldridge
I was doing some searching for upconverting dvd players and saw a new
samsung, model #dvd-hd850 that is due out this month. MSRP is $199.
it has hdmi output...sounds pretty good. another model is due out in june,
the dvd-hd950, a little bit more expensive. Just thought I'd add my 2cents.

I saw this article:

http://www.tvauthority.com/2005-CES/2005-CES.asp

Seems like these should be like second or third generation upscaling units...if logic prevails, they should improve on current units...let's hope. Also, they both offer 768p resolution, has anyone heard about that one?

They appear already at www.samsung.com (even manuals are available) and, apparently, the difference between each model is that the 950 offers both HDMI/DVI connections, DVD-Audio, and pre-amp outputs. Although the article indicates that the 950 has better video processing.

Has anyone seen this?

http://www.adstech.com/products/HDUP1500/intro/HDUP1500intro.asp?pid=HDUP1500

Or see it in action? Could it be an option for people that won't get HD channels yet?

Don't mean to sound like a broken record. I posted this in the main thread and didn't get reply. Hope I can get some response here.
I got my 52HM84 since Thanksgiving, love it. I am looking for a region-free upconverting dvd player. My choices are down to Momitsu V880DX and Oppo DV971H. I did read the main threads for both players and searched for any comparison. Most people seem to like 971 over the 880. Is there any member here has tested both the 880DX or 971 on HM/HMX? I think Rudy1 has had the 971. Can you elaborate on the "objectionable in the performance" on the 971?
The player will connect to HDMI on the 52HM84. I am current using the component on the HM with a Denon in 480p. After calibration with DVE, PQ is quite good already. But I notice some MB issues on some sources (Gladiator, RoTK EE, etc). That kind of bugs me. MB, shimmering and Y/C delay are my major concerns on the 971. Should I consider having 480p or 720p on component just in case I have the infamous ghosted HDMI on the HM? The downside of the V880 is the "softness" of the picture(due to high freq roll-off? Even on DVI?).
Any comments/ suggestions are appreciated. Thanks!

Has anyone in this forum had good success with the HDMI to DVI connection with a Dish 811/921 and the Toshiba HM/HMX series televisions? Is the picture any better or worse in comparison to component?

Originally posted by TReX8
Don't mean to sound like a broken record. I posted this in the main thread and didn't get reply. Hope I can get some response here.
I got my 52HM84 since Thanksgiving, love it. I am looking for a region-free upconverting dvd player. My choices are down to Momitsu V880DX and Oppo DV971H. I did read the main threads for both players and searched for any comparison. Most people seem to like 971 over the 880. Is there any member here has tested both the 880DX or 971 on HM/HMX? I think Rudy1 has had the 971. Can you elaborate on the "objectionable in the performance" on the 971?
The player will connect to HDMI on the 52HM84. I am current using the component on the HM with a Denon in 480p. After calibration with DVE, PQ is quite good already. But I notice some MB issues on some sources (Gladiator, RoTK EE, etc). That kind of bugs me. MB, shimmering and Y/C delay are my major concerns on the 971. Should I consider having 480p or 720p on component just in case I have the infamous ghosted HDMI on the HM? The downside of the V880 is the "softness" of the picture(due to high freq roll-off? Even on DVI?).
Any comments/ suggestions are appreciated. Thanks!

All players (regardless of cost) with the Faroudja 2301 & 2310 chips reportedly exhibit some degree of MB. I did not like the Y/C delay problem on the Oppo, I thought the PQ on the Toshiba DVD/VCR combo was underwhelming, and the MB on the Denon 2910 was too distracting to ignore at that particular price point. If the set had a 3rd component video input, I would've stuck with the Zenith DVB318....I need the existing 2 component video inputs for my OTA and cable DVRs.

Originally posted by Julio Bro!
Could it be an option for people that won't get HD channels yet? The only benefit I could see is for someone who has a really crappy scaler in their TV or STB.

Originally posted by bigdaddy10
Has anyone in this forum had good success with the HDMI to DVI connection with a Dish 811/921 and the Toshiba HM/HMX series televisions? Is the picture any better or worse in comparison to component?

I have a 921. HDMI to DVI looks fine--can't really see a difference vs. component..both look great. I've connected direct using an HDMI to DVI cable as well as pass-through using a Zektor DVI switcher and see no difference. Very satisfied with this set!

Originally posted by --Sclaws
I have a 921. HDMI to DVI looks fine--can't really see a difference vs. component..both look great. I've connected direct using an HDMI to DVI cable as well as pass-through using a Zektor DVI switcher and see no difference. Very satisfied with this set!


Thank you,

I'm trying to decide if I want to pay the extra $$$$ for the HDMI to DVI cable.

Originally posted by kdog044
The only benefit I could see is for someone who has a really crappy scaler in their TV or STB.

Well, we still don't have HD STBs and VCRs don't upscale, a simple unit could be nice for my A/V receiver's S-Video output.

You know of simple units like the Zinwell BriteView?

Hi All,

I have my 62HM94 for about a week ..evrything so far seems ok(touchwood) however I see the set having a tilt probelem(which is what I believe its called)

The top left edge of the picture is shfted to the right by about 0.2 inch and that tilt builds up gradually from the bottom left.

Its noticeable in some cases where there is a gap of about 0.2inch between the left topedge of the picture and the frame that slowly disappears as you traverse down the left edge top to bottom.

Also noticeable in tickers where as you move along horizontally more and more of the ticker gets cut off.

Any of you folks have this problem ...?

Any help would be great and your advice on whether to call it in to Toshiba would be great.

Originally posted by bigdaddy10
Thank you,

I'm trying to decide if I want to pay the extra $$$$ for the HDMI to DVI cable.

No problem. I use component as the default input for now (no real reason). Whenever HD-DVD pops up (or I add more DVI/HDMI hardware) I'll change it over to all run thru the HDMI input via the DVI switcher.

I have a 52HMX94 and am having cablecard problems.
Cable company is Time Warner, cablecard is made by Scientific Atlanta.

Have tried two different cards so far.
Symptom is card works ok, then after a random interval of time it looses all digital channels, both over the air and cable digital. Both OTA and cable analog channels work ok.
After cable card is removed and re-inserted, the card re-acquires channel list, then works ok for a while and repeats the problem after a random time.
It fails most often after the TV has been turned off, but it will fail when it is turned on as well. Shows up when you try and change channel, then screen is blank on all digital channels.

Cablecard CP status shows "no ECMs found". Otherwise status looks ok.

Anyone else having similar problems?

Gary

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi All,

I have my 62HM94 for about a week ..evrything so far seems ok(touchwood) however I see the set having a tilt probelem(which is what I believe its called)

The top left edge of the picture is shfted to the right by about 0.2 inch and that tilt builds up gradually from the bottom left.

Its noticeable in some cases where there is a gap of about 0.2inch between the left topedge of the picture and the frame that slowly disappears as you traverse down the left edge top to bottom.

Also noticeable in tickers where as you move along horizontally more and more of the ticker gets cut off.

Any of you folks have this problem ...?

Any help would be great and your advice on whether to call it in to Toshiba would be great

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In continuation of my previous post on tilt (above) ...is this a result of bowing ..because I see this only in 'Theaterwide 1'....for the other theater settings the issue is probably there but because a part of the picture gets cut off I cant see it. I have searched the forum and there are several mention of bowing of the picture.

Any input?

Could someone post the setting for XBOX? For reason, some xbox games such as Halo 2 looks terrible on my 52hm94.

I have yet to see a rear projection DLP that did NOT have this problem. It is simply the nature of the beast and the optics or electronics necessary to compensate for it would simply not be cost effective.

Tom


Originally posted by FANTOSH
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi All,

I have my 62HM94 for about a week ..evrything so far seems ok(touchwood) however I see the set having a tilt probelem(which is what I believe its called)

The top left edge of the picture is shfted to the right by about 0.2 inch and that tilt builds up gradually from the bottom left.

Its noticeable in some cases where there is a gap of about 0.2inch between the left topedge of the picture and the frame that slowly disappears as you traverse down the left edge top to bottom.

Also noticeable in tickers where as you move along horizontally more and more of the ticker gets cut off.

Any of you folks have this problem ...?

Any help would be great and your advice on whether to call it in to Toshiba would be great

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In continuation of my previous post on tilt (above) ...is this a result of bowing ..because I see this only in 'Theaterwide 1'....for the other theater settings the issue is probably there but because a part of the picture gets cut off I cant see it. I have searched the forum and there are several mention of bowing of the picture.

Any input?

Originally posted by Rudy1
All players (regardless of cost) with the Faroudja 2301 & 2310 chips reportedly exhibit some degree of MB. I did not like the Y/C delay problem on the Oppo, I thought the PQ on the Toshiba DVD/VCR combo was underwhelming, and the MB on the Denon 2910 was too distracting to ignore at that particular price point. If the set had a 3rd component video input, I would've stuck with the Zenith DVB318....I need the existing 2 component video inputs for my OTA and cable DVRs.

Thanks Rudy1! I thought about the Panny S97 and Zenith DVB318. But I have a collection of R2 and 3 movies, so I will need a region-free player. Plus, I want to have Divx/Xvid support as well. I guess I may be better off getting a Momitsu V880DX. So far I don't see much complaint with Y/C delay and MB(not a Faroudj 23xx). Or maybe I will wait for the next round of upconvert player.

Originally posted by TReX8
Thanks Rudy1! I thought about the Panny S97 and Zenith DVB318. But I have a collection of R2 and 3 movies, so I will need a region-free player. Plus, I want to have Divx/Xvid support as well. I guess I may be better off getting a Momitsu V880DX. So far I don't see much complaint with Y/C delay and MB(not a Faroudj 23xx). Or maybe I will wait for the next round of upconvert player.

I applied a firmware "revision" to the Zenith DVB318 I've got in my bedroom to enable it to play discs from all regions, and I haven't had any problems with it. I don't believe this unit will play Divx/Xvid discs, however.

Originally posted by Rudy1
I applied a firmware "revision" to the Zenith DVB318 I've got in my bedroom to enable it to play discs from all regions, and I haven't had any problems with it. I don't believe this unit will play Divx/Xvid discs, however.

There is a firmware that makes the DVB318 region-free? I heard good reviews about the 318 but never pay close attention to it. Time to read up... What about those DVI/HDMI and HDCP issues? Do you have any problem connecting the 318 thru DVI -> HDMI? Or you just use the component instead?

Originally posted by kdog044
The only benefit I could see is for someone who has a really crappy scaler in their TV or STB.

What about this idea; manufacturers could provide video inputs on the upscaling DVD players and output thru the HDMI connection. The units would need an ADC for these inputs, then pass the signals to the upscaler section...what could that be...$50 more maybe?.

Hmmmm, everything processed at 1080i or 720p thru the HDMI output...it would be niiiceee.

Originally posted by TReX8
There is a firmware that makes the DVB318 region-free? I heard good reviews about the 318 but never pay close attention to it. Time to read up... What about those DVI/HDMI and HDCP issues? Do you have any problem connecting the 318 thru DVI -> HDMI? Or you just use the component instead?

The Zenith DVB318 performs best at 1080i over the component video outputs. DVI performance is not very good---the color smearing and image retention issues remain even on those units that have been upgraded (with firmware) to correct the white crush problem on the DVI output. I did not encounter any issues with this player using a DVI/HDMI cable. However, you must remember to always turn the TV on first, then the source, when using the HDMI inputs on the Toshiba DLPs. I believe this holds true for all displays equipped with DVI and/or HDMI inputs.

You should be able to find a firmware hack (to allow multiregion playback) on this site: http://www.videohelp.com/

I finally got my ATI HDTV component adapter
for my Radeon 9600SE card.

http://www.ati.com/products/hdtvadapter/index.html
(carefull only works on certain models)

The Quailty is terrific
compared to using the HDMI (via DVI to HDMI cable)
input for PC display.

This is both good and bad news. Good since It allows me
to finally get acceptable quality PC display. The bad
is that this confirms all the HDMI/DVI input problems
people have had with this model (52HM84).

That said the price continues to plummit for the Toshiba DLP.
I saw an online add (for a B&M store) in the LA times with this
model for $2000....a bargain at that price even with
*ucked* HDMI input. The composite inputs are soo sweet.
I did hear (in this thread) that there was somekind of hardware
fix for the HDMI situation expected in Feb/Mar 2005. If anyone
knows about this kindly sound up!

Hi guys:

I just picked up the Toshiba 52HM84. I realized if I am watching regular 4:3 ratio with the grey bars on the side, the bottom 2 corner of the picture is 'sticking out'. Is there anywhere I can do the adjustment on 'trapezoid' or 'geometry' adj? Or it has to go to the service menu? If so, can anyone teach me how? Thank you so much for you guys help in advance.

PS: Can I change the grey bar to black bar?

PS: What kind of 'preference adj' on video you guys are using? I have the S&V calibration disc, but wanna get some kind of a reference number, coz I am a newbie.

Tom

Originally posted by cfung
I just picked up the Toshiba 52HM84. I realized if I am watching regular 4:3 ratio with the grey bars on the side, the bottom 2 corner of the picture is 'sticking out'. Is there anywhere I can do the adjustment on 'trapezoid' or 'geometry' adj? Or it has to go to the service menu? If so, can anyone teach me how? Thank you so much for you guys help in advance.

PS: Can I change the grey bar to black bar?

PS: What kind of 'preference adj' on video you guys are using? I have the S&V calibration disc, but wanna get some kind of a reference number, coz I am a newbie.

Tom I can't help you with the first problem but I can answer your other two. The grey bars can not be changed on the set. There is an ADDR mode that exists with all Toshiba sets and earlier models could be changed. Nobody has managed to figure out if that is still possible with the DLP's and if so what the hex code is for it. The only way currently to change the bars is if you are using a STB and change 4:3 override to off. From what I understand this outputs the signal in HD resolution so the STB has to put black bars in the signal to fill the screen. Until you have a calibration disk you can experiment with some of these I have collected from various users.



In the review of the 52HM84 by William Becker (see DLPTVreview.com), he suggests:

with the bulb set to HI BRIGHT
CONTRAST = 65
BRIGHTNESS = 67
COLOR = 48
TINT at R2


Here are a few more.

My initial calibration using high lamp, medium color temp:

contrast 65
brightness 55
color 45
tint r6
sharpness 50

I found contrast very hard to adjust and used William beckers setting.

contrast 65
brightness 35
color 55
tint 0
sharpness 42

For cable box hookup
Contrast 66
Brightness 45
Color 55
Tint 0
Sharpness 25
Color Temp Medium

For direct cable hookup on ANT1
Contrast 65
Brightness 45
Color 50
Tint -15
Sharpness 25
Color Temp Medium



Keep in mind there are set to set variations. This means you really have to tweak your set.

Do not forget to make those changes starting from MOVIE mode, which then changes to PREFERENCE. It is the way to turn Edge Enhancement off.

Paul

Originally posted by pbir
Do not forget to make those changes starting from MOVIE mode, which then changes to PREFERENCE. It is the way to turn Edge Enhancement off.

Paul Paul, do you know this for a fact? I know with the older CRT's that was how to disable SVM (Scan Velocity Modulation) but wasn't sure if it applied to an equivalent feature with the DLP's and if making the changes via MOVIE mode still apply.

Originally posted by cfung
Hi guys:

PS: What kind of 'preference adj' on video you guys are using? I have the S&V calibration disc, but wanna get some kind of a reference number, coz I am a newbie.

Tom

I can tell you that your first settings will have to be changed by the next month. Also, I like to take advantage of the widescreen and since our TVs do an excelent job of zooming and stretching this is how I see everything:

4:3 = Theaterwide 1 (final portion of sides stretched, easy to get accustomed and excelent for general TV viewing)

Widescreen DVD = Start in Full (anything below 1.85:1 fills the screen), if you see bars (2.X:1) change to Theaterwide 3 and stay if image looks good (depending on movie, bars will get very thin and the image will stretch height a bit), if not go back to Full. Sometimes you'll get a movie that has bigger bars than usual (ex. Armaggedon from Criterion Collection), for this you can test Theaterwide 2, but it's rare.

Widescreen TV programing = Usually they go for a ratio that's bigger than 1.85:1 (ex. Battlestar Galactica), but not quite 2.X:1; use Theaterwide 3.

Originally posted by kdog044
Paul, do you know this for a fact? I know with the older CRT's that was how to disable SVM (Scan Velocity Modulation) but wasn't sure if it applied to an equivalent feature with the DLP's and if making the changes via MOVIE mode still apply.

I do not know that for a fact, but it has worked on my older Tosh 50HX81 and I have taken the habit of always starting from the MOVIE mode. I have read this thread from the start, as well as the documents it references every now and then and have seen no indication on how else to disable SVM.

Paul.

Originally posted by pbir
I have read this thread from the start, as well as the documents it references every now and then and have seen no indication on how else to disable SVM.

Paul. Paul, just to be clear, there is no such thing as SVM on fixed panel displays. I have seen reference to edge enhancement on certain DLP's but I haven't found anything on Toshiba displays. It would be nice to find out though.

Originally posted by cfung
Hi guys:

I just picked up the Toshiba 52HM84. I realized if I am watching regular 4:3 ratio with the grey bars on the side, the bottom 2 corner of the picture is 'sticking out'. Is there anywhere I can do the adjustment on 'trapezoid' or 'geometry' adj? Or it has to go to the service menu? If so, can anyone teach me how? Thank you so much for you guys help in advance.

PS: Can I change the grey bar to black bar?

PS: What kind of 'preference adj' on video you guys are using? I have the S&V calibration disc, but wanna get some kind of a reference number, coz I am a newbie.

Tom

I just got my Toshiba 52HM94 yesterday and noticed the same geometry issue on 4:3 standard mode. It kind of looked like this:


http://www.mracacia.com/Graphic1.jpg

Is this normal for a DLP tv?

Mark

Folks

I have had this TV for just over a week.

Look at the attached picture .....see how the picture is tilted to the right.

Look along the bottom and move from left to right the white part slowly dissapears as you go the right.

Although not evident in this particular picture many times a gap opens up along the left side of the picture the gap being gradual from bottom to top and widest at the top.


IS THIS NORMAL?

Please help ....any body seeing the same thing in their TV?

I measured the tilt to be about 0.2 inch...

Please advise whether I should call it in to Tosh service..?

Any help appreciated.

Not normal>

New equipment = call service. Too expensive to tinker with.

original from Victor Nowik
That said the price continues to plummit for the Toshiba DLP.
I saw an online add (for a B&M store) in the LA times with this
model for $2000....a bargain at that price even with
*ucked* HDMI input. The composite inputs are soo sweet.
I did hear (in this thread) that there was somekind of hardware
fix for the HDMI situation expected in Feb/Mar 2005. If anyone
knows about this kindly sound up! [/B]


Yeah, I heard it too........from one of the sale man from BB in Toronto, Canada. He said that one the service Rep from Toshiba Canada told him that, but so far I haven't been able to find out any more info's on this fix.
Anyone else heard anything..................?:confused:

Originally posted by FANTOSH
Folks

I have had this TV for just over a week.

Look at the attached picture .....see how the picture is tilted to the right.

Look along the bottom and move from left to right the white part slowly dissapears as you go the right.

Although not evident in this particular picture many times a gap opens up along the left side of the picture the gap being gradual from bottom to top and widest at the top.


IS THIS NORMAL?

Please help ....any body seeing the same thing in their TV?

I measured the tilt to be about 0.2 inch...

Please advise whether I should call it in to Tosh service..?

Any help appreciated.

I had similar problem on my 52HMX84 but only with Component cables. I does not show up with DVI-HDMI cable.

Originally posted by Mracacia
I just got my Toshiba 52HM94 yesterday and noticed the same geometry issue on 4:3 standard mode. It kind of looked like this:


http://www.mracacia.com/Graphic1.jpg

Is this normal for a DLP tv?

Mark

Mark,

I dont think its normal. I do get some bowing at the center but nothing like you picture.

Originally posted by Victor Nowik
I did hear (in this thread) that there was somekind of hardware
fix for the HDMI situation expected in Feb/Mar 2005. If anyone
knows about this kindly sound up!

I recently had an engineer look at my set and have a replacement light engine ordered. He didn't go into specifics, but apparently Toshiba has acknowledged to him that this will fix the described HDMI problem. However, I'll believe in the fix when I see it with my own eyes.

Originally posted by subbedout
I recently had an engineer look at my set and have a replacement light engine ordered. He didn't go into specifics, but apparently Toshiba has acknowledged to him that this will fix the described HDMI problem. However, I'll believe in the fix when I see it with my own eyes.

Which HDMI "problem" is he referring to?
Some have complained that HDMI looks dark & green, but many have complained of the "ghosting".
Was it one/both of those, or something different?

And, was the light engine ordered to fix that specific problem, or some other problem?

Thanks

Gary

This is exactly what I got for my pic. That's why I wondered if there's any 'trapezoid' or 'pincouhsion' to adjust. I have a 30 day exchange/refund, but its a hassle to bring it back...... that's why I want to know is it something that I can take care of..... If I can't figure it out in 1 week or so I will bring it back for a new one, so then I still have 2 weeks to test out the new set...

Tom

PS: thanks for the info on black bars and reference setting.

Originally posted by Gwhiz
Which HDMI "problem" is he referring to?

The proposed light engine replacement is a direct response to the ghosting problem when using HDMI. Until the work is completed, I won't be able to comment on whether it fixes the dark, grainy image quality, or indeed the ghosting issue itself. To detach from the subject line I unwittingly included, I am not using a PC with the TV, but using the HDMI for connection of a DVD player which otherwise works perfectly through the component connection.

Originally posted by subbedout
The proposed light engine replacement is a direct response to the ghosting problem when using HDMI. Until the work is completed, I won't be able to comment on whether it fixes the dark, grainy image quality, or indeed the ghosting issue itself. To detach from the subject line I unwittingly included, I am not using a PC with the TV, but using the HDMI for connection of a DVD player which otherwise works perfectly through the component connection.

Which Tv model do you have?

I have a 52hmx94, and the only "ghosting" I have is what looks like video peaking, and is present to about the same degree on TV menus and HDMI DVD player menus.

I use a Sony 975 DVD player, and I find it's HDMI output to be slightly better (only noticeable on A/B comparisons with component) than component and be about the same brightness, and color (not dark, not green).
The upscaled HDMI output improvement is mostly noticeable in the elimination of "jaggies" on diagonal lines.


Gary

Originally posted by Gwhiz
I use a Sony 975 DVD player, and I find it's HDMI output to be slightly better (only noticeable on A/B comparisons with component) than component and be about the same brightness, and color (not dark, not green).
The upscaled HDMI output improvement is mostly noticeable in the elimination of "jaggies" on diagonal lines Gary, I just ordered the Sony to go with my 62HMX94 which will be delivered on Friday. What are your overall impressions with the Toshiba/Sony combination? Did you have to make any calibration settings in the player to pass BTB?

Originally posted by cfung
This is exactly what I got for my pic. That's why I wondered if there's any 'trapezoid' or 'pincouhsion' to adjust. I have a 30 day exchange/refund, but its a hassle to bring it back...... that's why I want to know is it something that I can take care of..... If I can't figure it out in 1 week or so I will bring it back for a new one, so then I still have 2 weeks to test out the new set...

Tom

PS: thanks for the info on black bars and reference setting.

I have two other problems, there is a static noise coming from the speakers. It is low and in the background but is audible during silent times in a show. It is present from any input (used or not).
The tv guide also is not working even thou I have good reception of my local PBS channel.
I suspect that the unit may have a bad board.

Mark

Originally posted by kdog044
Gary, I just ordered the Sony to go with my 62HMX94 which will be delivered on Friday. What are your overall impressions with the Toshiba/Sony combination? Did you have to make any calibration settings in the player to pass BTB?

I like the Sony player. It plays all the DVDs I write (+- R R/W) and has an OK user interface.

I've been using it at 1280x720, and can't yet tell a difference when 1920x1080 is used (we don't use any stretch modes).
Even on the DVE resolution patterns 1920x1080 and 1280x720 look the same.
The TV does have some apparent smoothing or sharpening processing that messes up part of the higher frequencies, but which resolution is being used doesn't seem to affect it.

I find I'm happiest with the picture settings about the same as with component in. I always have to back the color off several clicks (and find the presets way too high a color setting) from where DVE settings indicate, but we tend to prefer less saturated colors.

The "green depression" on HDMI does seem to be there so some degree, but I find the TV screws up blond hair and fair complected faces badly (the TV seems to make blonds have yellow-green hair) that I prefer the slightly yellowish cast to the slightly green cast of our old non-progrssive Sony player (and greens keep creeping into OTA HD).

But anyway I like the player, but as I said before, if you don't A/B HDMI and component you won't know they are different.

This player also does a great job of getting rid of compression blockiness (I think they call it MB), the picture is always smooth w/o any "digital look".

W've had it since Dec. 04, and have not had any problems with it.

Gary

Originally posted by Gwhiz
The TV does have some apparent smoothing or sharpening processing that messes up part of the higher frequencies, but which resolution is being used doesn't seem to affect it. Have you tried starting your calibration in MOVIE mode as an earlier poster suggested? In the earlier Toshiba CRT's that was how to disable SVM. We haven't been able to determine if Toshiba does in fact use "edge enhancement" but there are a few manufacturers that do with their DLP's. I guess it wouldn't hurt to see if calibration started in MOVIE mode does disable any type of "edge enhancement" that might be used by the display.

Have any of you folks expeirenced any lip-synch issues in audio with the LGDV418...I see a lip - synch issue on the HDMI connection.

No complains on picture ..pretty darn good at 1080i but for this audio problem.

In fact it is there also on component connection with the audio thru my receiver via coaxial.

I am wondering whether this partcular piece of LG dvd could be the problem .....you folks who own the same LG model have you experienced the same issue?


Any help appreciated.

I have the LG DVB418 and I do not have any issues with audio synch. I use the HDMI cable but I send my audio through optical. Which television do you have?

You could pass through the audio coming out of the HDMI port if you have the HMX94 series. Simply hook an optical cable to the optical out from the television to the receiver.

Thanks bigdaddy10 for your input...

I have the 62HM94.....I actually played the audio through the TV speakers on HDMI thinking.... may be my receiver is acting up....but thru TV speakers I get the audio synch issue.

Earlier I tried to get the audio out of the DVD thru coaxial to my receiver ...same issue

I have not tried the optical connection ...I will try that and more importantly take the audio out of the TV as u said may resolve it.

BTW do you think the audio synch could be the actual disk problem....may be i shoud try a few more dvds.....Let me know what you think.

I will keep post what I get thru optical out of TV....

I would try different DVD's and see if the problem persists.
Which DVD were you having this issue with?

You also might want to check in the audio setup in the DVD player and make sure that the 3D audio sound effect is not activated. I'm not sure but it could possibly cause a delay.

Originally posted by Gwhiz
Which Tv model do you have?

It's 52HM84. The ghosting or shadowing effect shows up with any edge, not just around text in menus or credits. There were a few other posts reporting this on a small(?) number of sets last fall.

Originally posted by subbedout
It's 52HM84. The ghosting or shadowing effect shows up with any edge, not just around text in menus or credits. There were a few other posts reporting this on a small(?) number of sets last fall.

I have had the ghosting issue from day one.. I never talked to Toshiba about it, but merely gave up on the issue until it haunts me at a later day. I have an extended warranty so I figured I have plenty of time. But now that I am reading someone is getting their light engine replaced, maybe I should start thinking about pursuing this further by contacting Toshiba.

Put simply, from my set top receiver (Sammy t450 I think?) , DVI->HDMI looks like garbage.

-A

Originally posted by Neo42
But now that I am reading someone is getting their light engine replaced, maybe I should start thinking about pursuing this further by contacting Toshiba.

After not reading any solution over the past few months, I had held back too. But the last straw was when I was in a B&M store recently and saw how impressive the picture looked on the display model (and the current prices are incredible). I didn't pay more $$$ as an early adopter to end up with a substandard set! It might be worth contacting Toshiba and seeing if they admit to a fix. I don't mean this to sound like I don't trust Toshiba or the (non-Toshiba) service, but I'll believe it is fixed when I see it....

I still haven't got a Satillite dish to hook up with, so I don't know about the TV menu, but everything else seems working fine (TV menu, DVD menu)... I'll keep an eye on that once I got my sat receiver ...

Withe the static noise, did u meant the TV spk? I hardly pay attention to them coz I hooked it up with my Monitor Audio S2s.....I'll try and see tomo and give you an answer.

I'll try to call Toshiba tech support tomo for that trapezoid problem, wish me luck coz last time I call I waited for 1/2 hr with no response, and left msg with no reply, that's what we call 'service'!!! >_<


Originally posted by Mracacia
I have two other problems, there is a static noise coming from the speakers. It is low and in the background but is audible during silent times in a show. It is present from any input (used or not).
The tv guide also is not working even thou I have good reception of my local PBS channel.
I suspect that the unit may have a bad board.

Mark

hey any ISF calibrators what are your picture setting for to watch directv or antenna (ant) on 52hm84/94??

Contrast - ???
Brightness - ??
Color - ???
Tint - ??

What is the manufacture date on your 52hm84 that is experiencing ghosting? Just curious.

Hey, have any of you tested Toshiba RD-XS52. It's a DVR/DVD Recorder with HDMI and upscaling, sounds cool, but is it any good?

Originally posted by Julio Bro!
Hey, have any of you tested Toshiba RD-XS52. It's a DVR/DVD Recorder with HDMI and upscaling, sounds cool, but is it any good?

Julio, check out the DVD recorder forum. There is some concern about the Toshiba DVD recorders - they record black levels incorrectly in what is called "black level bug." The new Tosh DVD recorders coming out in a couple of months will have selectable IRE recording levels, effectively correcting this issue.

I finally got my television. Boy does it look great. Here is a pic I took of Jose Canseco on HDNET.

MY TV IS ON STEROIDS!!

Originally posted by bigdaddy10
I finally got my television. Boy does it look great. Here is a pic I took of Jose Canseco on HDNET.

MY TV IS ON STEROIDS!! So which one did you end up with? I'm hoping to get mine Friday and I have Comcast scheduled for Saturday to install the cable card and DVR.

Originally posted by kdog044
So which one did you end up with? I'm hoping to get mine Friday and I have Comcast scheduled for Saturday to install the cable card and DVR.

I got the 62HMX94. You really do have a little more tweakability then the HM84.
The upgraded remote is also pretty cool.
I'm almost ashamed to admit how pleased I am, I feel as though I'm some sort of deviant because something electronic has made me so happy.

Originally posted by bigdaddy10
I got the 62HMX94. You really do have a little more tweakability then the HM84. I made the same choice. I was torn between the 52" and the 62" but ultimately decided that bigger is better. I'll be posting my impressions once I get everything delivered and connected.

I recently used the HDNET "HDNet Test Patterns" to examine the 62HM84 display with a Scientific Atlanta 8000HD DVR cable box connected via component video cable and wanted to post the rather disappointing results and ask for some advice.

The original review is:

postid=5169901#post5169901

I plan to get AVIA or DVE to check the DVD player/TV interaction, but the broadcast test pattern is the only way I could think of to test the cable box/TV interaction.

Gray Scale:

One test pattern includes a set of gray scale boxes with slightly brighter numbers in the boxes. All were readable except for the darkest (10) which could only be seen if the brightness was turned up to 100%. This increases my suspicions that the set has problems with reproducing detail in dark areas. My guesses for the cause of this problem are 1) the 62HM84 not handling low IRE values correctly, 2) the cable box not sending out correct low IRE levels, or 3) the HDNET feed or test patterns could be a faulty.

Overscan:

The resolution test pattern includes overscan marks at top and bottom. On top and bottom it appear that about an inch of information is missing, and at the right and left sides about 4 or 5 inches is missing. This could be caused by 1) incorrect mechanical adjustment in the light engine, 2) incorrect sampling of the signal by the A/D or scaling chip, 3) incorrect signal timing from the cable box, 4) bad HDNET feed or test patterns.

Bowing:

The convergence test pattern showed that the image is about 1/2 inch wider at the bottom than at the top, with most of the bowing in the last 5 inches. There is a very small amount of bowing across the top and bottom. My guess for this problem is that magnifying the 0.8 inch DMD to 62 inches (77.5 times) and projecting it in such a short distance is hard to do without some distortion.

The next test that I plan to perform is to (and this is really pathetic) count the pixels on the side and top of the display. This will show if the optical system is adjusted to display all of the possible pixels (1280 x 720). It is a nasty job but someone has to do it.

Does anyone have ideas/opinions about these questions:

- Has anyone else used the HDNET test patterns?

- Is there any "do it youself" way to find out if the overscan is due to the cable box or the 62HM84?

- Is there any DIY way to find out if the gray scale problem is due to the cable box or the 62HM84?

- Has anyone found any way to get into a service mode for the Scientific Atlanta 8000HD DVR cable box? It would be great if these problems could be solved by adjusting the 8000HD box.

- Are any of these problems the kind of thing that justifies a service call?

Sorry about the verbose posting and thanks for all the excellent info from this group.

Originally posted by kdog044
I made the same choice. I was torn between the 52" and the 62" but ultimately decided that bigger is better. I'll be posting my impressions once I get everything delivered and connected.


Where did you buy your television from? Bill Shenefelt enlightened me and I got a really good price at OneCall. The delivery was painless. Boy does it come in a huge box. It looks big enough to have a sofa in it.

Originally posted by bigdaddy10
Where did you buy your television from? Bill Shenefeltn enlightened me and I got a really good price at OneCall. The delivery was painless. Boy does it come in a huge box. It looks big enough to have a sofa in it. I got it a local retailer in Michigan, ABC Warehouse. Check your PM.;)

Originally posted by kdog044
I got it a local retailer in Michigan, ABC Warehouse. Check your PM.;)


Oh Yes.....now I remember.
After American Television could not get me the TV in a reasonable time I ordered the TV from OneCall. I got the TV 5 days after I ordered it from Onecall.
I also looked at ABC Warehouse but when I put in all my info they said I was out of their delivery area.

You are gonna love this television.
I have no bowing or ghosting. The guide was not loaded this morning but I expected this. The off air HD coming directly through the television is phenomenal. I sat with my mouth open watching CSI Miami. CBS does a wonderful job with HD.

Originally posted by bigdaddy10
I sat with my mouth open watching CSI Miami. CBS does a wonderful job with HD. I'm looking forward to watching Lost this Wednesday. I've been researching both the TV and the player for a few months now and I'm really looking forward to getting it all connected. I told my wife I may never leave the house.:D

I was originally going to get the 52HMX94 but when my wife and I were looking at it she says "How much more is the 62"? When I told her she says we should just get the 62" then. Later she tried changing her mine and I said, "too late" you already convinced me.:p

Damn shame they did not have a 72 or 82 ! I would have gone for that ! The picture on the 62 sure does not suffer from poor definition on HD programming or even on regular definition digital.
Guess i'll have to settle for the 62 till I can afford a high def front projector. I have a 800 by 600 Infocus and love it too. Sometimes a draw as to whether to watch it or the hm62 at night.

Here are some more pictures I took tonight while watching The Incredibles with the kids. The best thing about the whole situation is that my wife loves the TV as much as I do........I really married well.

One more.

I did not freeze the image on the dvd player. I took these pictures while the movie was playing. I can see the green push on the pics but in real time it is unnoticeable.

For those of you who don't already know it...........you can use the Zenith DVD codes to program the DVD functions of the LG-DVB418 on the Toshiba HM/HMX televisions.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by bmob6633
I have a problem with my 62hm84. After a few hours of watching, my picture goes out. I get sound but no pic. i try to change the input, but it wont display anything on the screen. The bulb is still on, just no pic. The screen looks like it does when you turn it off (with instant restart ON).
Its black but you can tell that its still on. Anyone have this problem yet. ITs ony happened 3 times, twice in the last few days. Once the TV was on for about 12 hours. A few days later it was only on for an hour or two. I need to turn it off, let it completely turn off (10 min). then when i turn it back on its fine???? The service tech is coming out Monday. Any ideas? Ive had no other problems with this TV.
thx bryan
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




well the tech was out today. i turned my tv on about 12:00 pm on hi-bright mode (just to max it out). at 3:00 pm volia!!!!!! I lost the picture. i left the tv on. At 4:00 pm the tech showed up and saw what was going on. He then turned it off and on. still no picture. so then he unpluged it for about 10 sec. then pluged it back in and turned it on. It tried to power up then shut down. he then turned it on again (same thing) (the green led flashed a few times(he said it was a error code , but didnt get a chance to count the flashes)) He then tried to turn it on again ( to count the flashes) ....
but it came on this time. It has now been on for 3 hours and still working.
He said hes going to check with toshiba, but he hasnt seen a service bulliten about this yet. I have a feeling this is going to be a long and slow fix. Im about to be annoyed. Oh, and he wants me to unplug it when it happens again and count the flashes when i try to turn it back on.
Isnt unpluging it while its cooling bad for it???? also forcing it back on when its not ready ???
help?



UPDATE: now the repair shop said , Toshiba told them to bring it in to the repair shop . The repair shop told me it could take a month? who knows if longer? with no loaner tv. doesnt that seem like bull. Im just supposed to be out my New tv for however long it takes to repair it? If they even can?
Let me know how you guys would handle it. would you bit*h?
thx
bryan

I own a 52HM94. Has anyone else noticed small, dark smudges on their screen? I have three small ones on my screen. They almost look like little fingerprint smudges and are only noticeable when the TV is displaying something white or light in color. For example, when watching basketball, it's easy to see the spots on the court. Are these smudges/spots something on the screen of the TV or is it something on the actual mirrors of the TV? Has anyone else had experience with this? I have a tech coming out tomorrow to look at it, but they said they don't have much experience with these TVs, so I'm not sure how much I trust them. Thanks for the help.

I just ordered a 52HMX84 and it will be delivered on Friday. I'm a Hitachi 50VS810 refugee - the set had really bad green tint that couldn't be tweaked out. I'm hoping I have better luck with this Tosh. Thanks for all the folks who have shared their experiences freely on this thread.

I believe in an earlier post someone asked me if the Toshiba passed through dolby digital 5.1 to a receiver on over air HD. It does this quite well. I was surprised that I was able to pass the 5.1 signal through to the receiver and still get sound to the speakers on the television as well.
This is great as I don't really see a reason to have the receiver on when watching the news.

Originally posted by bigdaddy10
I believe in an earlier post someone asked me if the Toshiba passed through dolby digital 5.1 to a receiver on over air HD. It does this quite well. I was surprised that I was able to pass the 5.1 signal through to the receiver and still get sound to the speakers on the television as well.
This is great as I don't really see a reason to have the receiver on when watching the news. I had asked earlier if DD 5.1 was passed from an upconverting DVD player through the optical output. Someone mentioned the DD was downmixed to Dolby 2.0 but I believe it is based on the sink (target) being able to process it. I was hoping to eliminate one audio connection to the receiver. Worse case, I will be able to test it Friday after the TV is delivered. My DVD player showed up today, a day early. I ordered it from Buy.com on Thursday and it shipped on Friday. I'm happy with the delivery spped.

Originally posted by bigdaddy10
Here are some more pictures I took tonight while watching The Incredibles with the kids. The best thing about the whole situation is that my wife loves the TV as much as I do........I really married well. You have to quit posting those pics.:( I still have to wait until Friday to get mine and you're driving me crazy.:D

Originally posted by bmob6633
quote:
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Originally posted by bmob6633
I have a problem with my 62hm84. After a few hours of watching, my picture goes out. I get sound but no pic. i try to change the input, but it wont display anything on the screen. The bulb is still on, just no pic. The screen looks like it does when you turn it off (with instant restart ON).
Its black but you can tell that its still on. Anyone have this problem yet. ITs ony happened 3 times, twice in the last few days. Once the TV was on for about 12 hours. A few days later it was only on for an hour or two. I need to turn it off, let it completely turn off (10 min). then when i turn it back on its fine???? The service tech is coming out Monday. Any ideas? Ive had no other problems with this TV.
thx bryan
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well the tech was out today. i turned my tv on about 12:00 pm on hi-bright mode (just to max it out). at 3:00 pm volia!!!!!! I lost the picture. i left the tv on. At 4:00 pm the tech showed up and saw what was going on. He then turned it off and on. still no picture. so then he unpluged it for about 10 sec. then pluged it back in and turned it on. It tried to power up then shut down. he then turned it on again (same thing) (the green led flashed a few times(he said it was a error code , but didnt get a chance to count the flashes)) He then tried to turn it on again ( to count the flashes) ....
but it came on this time. It has now been on for 3 hours and still working.
He said hes going to check with toshiba, but he hasnt seen a service bulliten about this yet. I have a feeling this is going to be a long and slow fix. Im about to be annoyed. Oh, and he wants me to unplug it when it happens again and count the flashes when i try to turn it back on.
Isnt unpluging it while its cooling bad for it???? also forcing it back on when its not ready ???
help?



UPDATE: now the repair shop said , Toshiba told them to bring it in to the repair shop . The repair shop told me it could take a month? who knows if longer? with no loaner tv. doesnt that seem like bull. Im just supposed to be out my New tv for however long it takes to repair it? If they even can?
Let me know how you guys would handle it. would you bit*h?
thx
bryan

I also have been told by a Toshiba Service Center to unplug my 52HM84. I had no problem with the set using only Component Inputs until a couple of days after setting it up. I then started seeing digital artifacts which from a distance looked like tears running down the screen. Up close I could see parallel vertical black and white pixels were running down the screen. SD PQ was extremely bad. I called Toshiba and the Tech came out..looked at it and said the Component Input was bad:( He didn't even test it....I later switched the DVD and HD Components and Got the same artifacts on whatever Input was used by HD. Progressive Scan DVD has always looked incredible. The tech came out and agreed with me after replacing some part. He then found that when the TV was turned off the Lamp stayed on. I too was told to unplug it from the electrical output. I did this for a few days and then lo and behold the artifacts completely disappeared:)

The part they ordered from Toshiba has not arrived and it has been nearly 2 weeks. When it comes I'll see what happens then...but at this time JUST LOVE THE PQ...HD (Directv and OTA) and SD:confused:

there coming to pick it up friday
i dont know how long i will be without it.
they have no clue whats wrong
im screwed

Originally posted by bmob6633
there coming to pick it up friday
i dont know how long i will be without it.
they have no clue whats wrong
im screwed

There are two possibilities that you may want to have the tech consider.

1. With regard to the lamp remaining on, if you have quick restart enabled (the default) the bulb will stay on (low, but it still looks bright through the grill in the back of the set) for several minutes after you turn the set off. This would not be a problem, but normal operation.

2. The "artifacts" that look like stripes or lines, could be the result of an identified problem with the HM84s. If you look way back in this thread you will see a couple of Toshiba service notes. One is for the clock being off by minutes a day (not the one). The other is for a copper cable shield between the scaler and the light engine that is mis-applied and can cause erratic/intermittent shorts. The symptoms for this can range from no picture, to stripes and bands, or losing one or more colors. This could even vary with temperature as things expand and contract.

The service note fix for #2 above is easy to do, he just trims the copper foil back so it doesn't short to the pins.
You might try caling his attention to the service note, you don't have much to lose.

Gary

Originally posted by Gwhiz
There are two possibilities that you may want to have the tech consider.



2. The "artifacts" that look like stripes or lines, could be the result of an identified problem with the HM84s. If you look way back in this thread you will see a couple of Toshiba service notes. One is for the clock being off by minutes a day (not the one). The other is for a copper cable shield between the scaler and the light engine that is mis-applied and can cause erratic/intermittent shorts. The symptoms for this can range from no picture, to stripes and bands, or losing one or more colors. This could even vary with temperature as things expand and contract.

The service note fix for #2 above is easy to do, he just trims the copper foil back so it doesn't short to the pins.
You might try caling his attention to the service note, you don't have much to lose.

Gary Thanks Gary...I have the Tech coming tomorrow so will show this to him. Reece

Originally posted by YoureMyBoyBlue!
I own a 52HM94. Has anyone else noticed small, dark smudges on their screen? I have three small ones on my screen. They almost look like little fingerprint smudges and are only noticeable when the TV is displaying something white or light in color. For example, when watching basketball, it's easy to see the spots on the court. Are these smudges/spots something on the screen of the TV or is it something on the actual mirrors of the TV? Has anyone else had experience with this? I have a tech coming out tomorrow to look at it, but they said they don't have much experience with these TVs, so I'm not sure how much I trust them. Thanks for the help.
I have the same thing i have not investigated it fully just noticed the other day. i will look closer tonight and let you know.

Does anybody have any experience with extended warranty from one Call.

They sell the NSI warranty.

I bought my 62HM94 from them and was a nice experience ...I have 60 days to buy the ext warranty from them.

The price looks nice for 5 yr (mfg warr inclusive) for $299....


Any body have experience with them?

I bought a 5 year from them once I checked out the Insurance company actually honoring the warrantee. They seem to not be a fly by night outfit and have a good stock rating. Also I called them directly and the DLP lamp is supposed to be covered. Costs $200 for a replacement bulb so even if you get only one during the 5 years, seems like a great deal to me so I bought it.