This thread is for issues of interest to owners of the Toshiba DLP series.
For discussion of Configurations, Settings, Tweaks and Issues of all sorts.

My configuration: Toshiba 52HM84
HTPC (1.6GHZ P4) with MSI G4Ti4600 w/DVI out
going to a DVI to HDMI cable (from pchcables.com aprox $26)
and a MyHD HDTV tuner/recorder card with DVI daughter board

The DVI tuner output of the MyHD is awesome!!! I am getting some dropouts
which I am not too woried about as I have only tweaked with it for an evening.

I am interested in using my monitor with an HTPC. My thanks to member
remotepc who was the first to report that the 52HM84 works with the DVI
output of nvidia cards (and probably types as well).

I am using the MyHD HDtuner/recorder/DVD player card in my computer.
I have the version with the DVI daughter board. My DVI video card output
goes into the MYHD and the MyHD DVI output goes to the Toshiba. I see
my desktop with a window containing HD content or when I switch to HD
mode I see the tuner or DVD output from the MyHD full screen. The picture
quality on HD OTA reception is simply STUNNING. The quality on DVD playback
left me with tears of JOY. I am a very very very happy 52hm84 owner!!!!

I can see my desktop on the DLP but there is significant over-scan and the
mapping of pixels to mirrors dose not seem to be the ideal 1-1. I have played
with powerstrip a little and have been able to move the image a bit so I can
at least see part of the task-bar. I am interested in hearing from anyone who
has made advances in fine tuning the DVI timing parameters as well as any
other HTPC configuration info.

2 requests for current owners (as I'm still awaiting my HMX):

1) Does anyone know how to get to the Service Menu on the Toshiba HM series? I assume the code is the same for the HMXs...

2) Please post your pictures, too! Let's see some of those setups in action. :D

I'm going to look at the 52" HX later in the week, once my local dealer gets his shipment. If everything looks good and it passes the rainbow exam I may be bringing one home since I have a connection there (owners are the best ones) and should get a great deal.

So I'm very interested in following this thread.....and may become an active participant soon.

I initially bought a Samsung HLP5063 at Best Buy and then found out about the powerbuy. I returned the 5063 and bought the Samsung HLP5663 through the powerbuy. It was defective out of the box. I asked them to replace it with a Toshiba 52HM84 and it just arrived yesterday. I really sweated whether to stick with the Samsung or switch to the Toshiba and so far I am please with my decision to go with the Toshiba. I've only had the Toshiba a day but here are some observations comparing the two TVs:

- The Toshiba looks nicer sitting in my family room. It looks less like a big box and more sleek.
- The Toshiba starts much faster then the Samsung.
- The Samsung has more connections. Fortunately I don't need more connections but in the future I may need to buy a switch.
- The Toshiba seems quieter than the Samsung. Fan noise is almost inaudible.
- Out of the box HD picture quality is better on the Toshiba. Colors seem more natural. Picture is very detailed, clear and seems to look more 3-D.
- Out of the box SD picture quality is better on the Samsung. I have not had time to tweek the Toshiba but it shows every flaw in a SD signal. The "softer" picture of the Samsung is much more forgiving.
- X-Box looks great. I only played it for 30 minutes but so far no lag.

I'm sure I'll have more observations in a few days.

GSOgymrat; where was the brightness set at OTB and did you have to reduce it because of gray blacks?
What was wrong with the 2nd Sammy? How did the exchange go? Did they pay for return shipping and the Toshiba shipping? Did you have to contact the trucking company or did they?

I purchased a 52HM84, it should arrive at my sports bar tomorrow (Wed). It will be our first HD TV, to go along with our 16 SDs. I am hoping that the SD sports are not too bad, but can't wait until the HD football games start. Which actually is this Sat. USC vs Virginia Tech on ESPNHD.
I'll tell more when we get it set up.

Videobruce--
I have not had a chance to calibrate it yet-- everyone is watching the Olympics. The second Sammy had this bizarre problem where everything that should be black was bright red (see picture below). I let it run a few days the picture continued to degrade and then it finally would not turn on. TVA said they were going to have the old one picked up when they delivered the Toshiba. Overnite said they did not have instructions to pick up the old set and even called back to heaquarters to be sure. The Samsung is in it's box in my garage. I didn't pay for shipping on the Toshiba and I have no intention of paying for the Samsung to be returned.

Did they charge you for any shipping cost?

I'd be happy to buy the Sammy off you for $100 plus shipping :D

Originally posted by GSOgymrat
Videobruce--
I have not had a chance to calibrate it yet-- everyone is watching the Olympics. The second Sammy had this bizarre problem where everything that should be black was bright red (see picture below). I let it run a few days the picture continued to degrade and then it finally would not turn on. TVA said they were going to have the old one picked up when they delivered the Toshiba. Overnite said they did not have instructions to pick up the old set and even called back to heaquarters to be sure. The Samsung is in it's box in my garage. I didn't pay for shipping on the Toshiba and I have no intention of paying for the Samsung to be returned.

I have had my 52HM84 for a week now. I am extremely happy with the quality of this Set. I have a HD Tivo connected to it, using component video(My HDMI Port on the HD TIVO is dead), and the quality is awesome. I wish there were more connections to the TV. I really wish the HD Tivo had more output connections.

I did set the bulb to low power mode, and have lowered the brightness during late night viewing.

I have a quick question though. How do you enable the output audo ports on the 52HM84?
I am running the HD Tivo video out through the component video, and audio out to the Set, and due to the HD Tivo only having 1 set of audio output jacks, I cannot seem to send the Audio to my DVD-Recorder(The DVD recorder video is connected to the HD Tivo S-Video output).

What I tried is using the Audio output jacks on the 52HM84, and connect it to the DVD recorder. But I get no Audio.

Anyone know what I am doing wrong?


Thanks,
Vizcaya

>>the HD Tivo only having 1 set of audio output jacks, I cannot seem to send the Audio to my
>>DVD-Recorder(The DVD recorder video is connected to the HD Tivo S-Video output).

for simple audio connections you can piggyback. Go to your local radio shack
(or whatever) and get somthing like this:

http://store.pchcables.com/2rcafeto1rca1.html

to make two audio outputs out of one (on the hd-tivo)

Just got my 52hM84 yesterday afternoon, and only had time to watch some DVDs. Comcast will come in tomorrow to setup the HD box. So far, the DVD quality is great through component outputs. I just have a couple questions. The 6ft component cable I have is over 3 years old, and pretty thin. Would I be able to get better quality picture with a thicker component cable or a shorter one?

If I upgrade to a DVI dvd player, would that also result in better PQ?

thanks

>> Would I be able to get better quality picture with a thicker component cable or a shorter one?

Unless the old cable is of really poor quality it will not make a visable
difference. Any reasonable quality shielded cable should work well. I
dont agree with those who have almost religious zeal for super expensive
"monster cable". It's a shielded piece of wire with fairly low bandwidth
requirements.

>>If I upgrade to a DVI dvd player, would that also result in better PQ?

A highly critical viewer on a really good DVD transfer would say YES.
If the DVD player dosent have an HDMI output you will
have to get a DVI to HDMI adapter and run seperate audio cables.

I prefer to use an HTPC for all my signal needs....but not everyone
wants to add the extra complexity.

Victor Nowik said " I can see my desktop on the DLP but there is significant over-scan and the
mapping of pixels to mirrors dose not seem to be the ideal 1-1. I have played
with powerstrip a little and have been able to move the image a bit so I can
at least see part of the task-bar. I am interested in hearing from anyone who
has made advances in fine tuning the DVI timing parameters as well as any
other HTPC configuration info."

----------------

That much overscan?! I am ready to pull the trigger, but this much overscan is worse than my CRT. One of my major requirements and reasons for the upgrade is to eliminate the overscan issue and use this as a HTPC monitor. Any luck cleaning this up a bit? Btw, I have a ATI x800 Pro card, any luck on these cards? Thanks much.

Somebody was looking for this measurement recently. The base on the 52HM84 is smaller than the upper part of the TV.

The base measures 42 1/8" by 14 7/8". The overall width of the TV with speakers is 58", and the overall depth is 15 1/8", which is a couple of inches less than the Samsungs.

Thank goodness it works!

Still, it seems a bit grainy/hyper-sharp. Does that make sense?
Then again, it's just a digital/non-HD Dish Network connection via coaxial cable. (I'm not sure of the model number of the satellite box). There's an s-video outlet on the back of it, but I couldn't get it to work properly. When I unplugged the coaxial cable from the TV, it didn't work. Am I doing something wrong?

Progressive scan Gamecube, connected via component, looks wonderful. I'll be playing all of my games again, just to enjoy the beauty. (hehe.. I almost got a bit dizzy while playing F-Zero.. lol..)

Has anyone calibrated theirs yet? Any good settings? Does AVIA make that big a difference? I'm guessing my way through the video settings menu, but to no great success. If I could get my Dish Network feed to look half as crisp as the "Volume" meter, I'd be so pleased..

Originally posted by teamills
Victor Nowik said " I can see my desktop on the DLP but there is significant over-scan and the
mapping of pixels to mirrors dose not seem to be the ideal 1-1. I have played
with powerstrip a little and have been able to move the image a bit so I can
at least see part of the task-bar. I am interested in hearing from anyone who
has made advances in fine tuning the DVI timing parameters as well as any
other HTPC configuration info."

----------------

That much overscan?! I am ready to pull the trigger, but this much overscan is worse than my CRT. One of my major requirements and reasons for the upgrade is to eliminate the overscan issue and use this as a HTPC monitor. Any luck cleaning this up a bit? Btw, I have a ATI x800 Pro card, any luck on these cards? Thanks much.


Use as a monitor is a priority for me too...but since I have had it for only
three days and my wife loves watching the Olympics... not much time for
tweaking yet...Be advised that along with my manual came an extra sheet
saying that the monitor is not intended for use as a PC monitor...This
was a little disapointing....but I am still confident that with some tweaking
it can be made to work (much like the case with the Samsung DLP's) By
reading other threads about other people finding the right combination of
timing information to make it happen for various other displays
I feel it's just a matter of time. stay tuned.

Hello all..

I've had my 52HM84 since Saturday and I'm enjoying it.

Now, I want to take a big step and do what the owners manual says not to do (for what reason, can anyone tell me?): Hook up HTPC

Basically, my PC will have an HDTV Wonder and Radeon 9600XT. I have purchased a DVI/HDMI cable. I'm not going to blow up the Toshi by plugging the radeon into it am I?

I have heard some problems about compatibility between a PC output and a TV/monitor input having to do with scaling problems, sync problems, etc. I am anticipating that I will need to tweak the outgoing video signal if this is going to work at all.

So can anyone give me any advice?

Much appreciated!

Basically, my PC will have an HDTV Wonder and Radeon 9600XT. I have purchased a DVI/HDMI cable. I'm not going to blow up the Toshi by plugging the radeon into it am I?NO, but the Toshiba Police will hunt you down and force you to watch I Love Lucy reruns..........

Read the first post here.

Originally posted by Neo42
Hello all..

I've had my 52HM84 since Saturday and I'm enjoying it.

Now, I want to take a big step and do what the owners manual says not to do (for what reason, can anyone tell me?): Hook up HTPC

Basically, my PC will have an HDTV Wonder and Radeon 9600XT. I have purchased a DVI/HDMI cable. I'm not going to blow up the Toshi by plugging the radeon into it am I?

I have heard some problems about compatibility between a PC output and a TV/monitor input having to do with scaling problems, sync problems, etc. I am anticipating that I will need to tweak the outgoing video signal if this is going to work at all.

So can anyone give me any advice?

Much appreciated!


I hooked my htpc on the first day. On my (nvidia) card the DVI output
was not active if the analog VGA was connected but this depends on the
mode the drivers expect you to use the DVI port (clone or dual monitor).
I found that at boot the Toshiba will sink to the 640x480 initial resolution
but the overscan will be significant. My first step was to boot on a standard
analog vga monitor and set it for 1280x720, power down pull out the vga
and plug in the DVI and reboot. I expect you will at least see desktop. You
will have trouble seeing the task bar (because of overscan) and the problem
with powerstrip is that once it's installed it is activated from the system tray.
You will have to avtivate it w/o seeing the cursor. The latest version of
powerstrip has a lot of preset resolutions for DLP and LCOS monitors. I
would try these first. Powerstrip also allows you to tweak the actual
timing parameters interavtively. Some of these will cause you to loose
picture. learn the powerstrip hot-key that restores the default frequencies.
By playing with the front porch/back-porch setting I was able to get most
of the taskbar displayed. Powerstrip will remember this and the next time
you boot you will start from there.

This is all I have learned from a single short session. I encourage you to go
ahead and experiment. The more of us working the sooner the solution. I will
(and encourage you) to search these forms for information on how others
have achieved 1-1 pixel mapping. You will know you are there when you
see razor sharp non-grainy characters. The (non 1to1) effect looks exactly the
same as setting your laptop resolution to a resolution different from it's
native resolution. Please share your results.

Hi

Is it me or does this happen to other people. I just can't find a way from my remote to control the contrast, sharpness, color, and brightness for different picture mode. The 52HM84 menu says go to picture mode, select on either sports, standard, preference, and press > key, then you'd be able to see the screen to adjust the individual settings, but when I did that, nothing happened on the screen. Did I do anything wrong? Can anyone provide a detailed instruction for me?

thanks!!

Not being use to Toshiba sets it took me 10 minutes to figure out the remote. If I remember correctly you don't press the center button, you press ther button lower left of that semi-joystick control to get to the picture settings.

Hope that made sense

Originally posted by elitelight
Hi

Is it me or does this happen to other people. I just can't find a way from my remote to control the contrast, sharpness, color, and brightness for different picture mode. The 52HM84 menu says go to picture mode, select on either sports, standard, preference, and press > key, then you'd be able to see the screen to adjust the individual settings, but when I did that, nothing happened on the screen. Did I do anything wrong? Can anyone provide a detailed instruction for me?

thanks!!

The way I read the manual, you cannot adjust the sports or standard mode settings, only preference mode -- i.e., you can only have one custom setting, which is saved as the "preference" setting.

Changing the settings is not very intuitive. You have to remember to press the "enter" key, which is not the center key. Go to "Picture" on the menu and you can adjust color, contrast, etc. You then must scroll down and save the setting. Your changes will be saved under the "preference" setting. You can adjust the "preference" setting for each input.

I have just learned that a newer set of Catalyst drivers for my 9600XT have built in HDTV timing settings for the HDTV output. Let's cross our fingers that will give me a good start on eliminating overscan.

For anyone who has their 52hm84 connected to PC via HDMI-to-DVI cable.. What type of monitor do you have XP setup to be displaying on? I'm wondering if there are any 3rd party drivers for "monitors" especially designed in consideration for DVI/HDMI TV display.

Yeah stupid center button had me scratching my head for a little while last night (I just got a 52HM84 yesterday). The de-interlacer doesn't seem to be all that good. I hooked up my dvd player through composite cables and saw artifacts everywhere. Component cables should be landing today, so we'll see what difference it makes.

Thanks for the help. Using the enter key got everything going. Watched the ESPN football game and CSI on HD last night through component cable, it looked great. The football game looked stunning. I just ordered a DVI-HDMI cable, and will try that and see if it proves any quality. One thing I noticed was that there's a little red tune on people's faces, especially on the nose tips and cheek bones when I was watching CSI. I've tried to set diff. settings, but didn't seem to help. Has anyone else noticed this?

DVD quality is good, but I dont know how good it could have been since I haven't seen any other setup. I think the HD programs on TV looked better than DVD. Austin powers and Crimson Tide on Startz, and Cinemax looked better than my DVD outputs. Maybe I just need a better DVD player.

Originally posted by elitelight

DVD quality is good, but I dont know how good it could have been since I haven't seen any other setup. I think the HD programs on TV looked better than DVD. Austin powers and Crimson Tide on Startz, and Cinemax looked better than my DVD outputs. Maybe I just need a better DVD player.

HDTV is almost always going to look better than DVD. It's higher resolution - most HDTV programs are 720 or 1080, while DVD is only 480. It's time for HDDVD or something :)

As an aside, I'm very impressed with the SD picture quality. I was expecting it to look like garbage from some of the posts I've read. Fortunately it wasn't all that bad at all. Definitely watchable. Stretching the 4:3 picture to 16:9 also looked pretty good, though you could sometimes tell that it was stretched more at the edge (the lines on the football field were a dead giveaway).

Originally posted by elitelight
One thing I noticed was that there's a little red tune on people's faces, especially on the nose tips and cheek bones when I was watching CSI. I've tried to set diff. settings, but didn't seem to help. Has anyone else noticed this?


I've seen some reports (and my experience looking at the 52HM84 in a BB would seem to echo this), that the Toshibas have a bit of an overly-red setting on them out of the box.

This could be actual "red-push"...but it might also just be the color tuning. What color level do you have the set on - the options are "Cool", "Medium", and "Warm". If it's on warm (which emphasize red)...you might be able to correct it by just changing it to "Medium" (no color emphasis) or "Cool" (emphasizes blues).

Anyone have the actual contrast/sharpness/color/tint/etc. settings for their TV...perhaps after a quick run-through with Avia or DVE?

Originally posted by varkus
I've seen some reports (and my experience looking at the 52HM84 in a BB would seem to echo this), that the Toshibas have a bit of an overly-red setting on them out of the box.

This could be actual "red-push"...but it might also just be the color tuning. What color level do you have the set on - the options are "Cool", "Medium", and "Warm". If it's on warm (which emphasize red)...you might be able to correct it by just changing it to "Medium" (no color emphasis) or "Cool" (emphasizes blues).

Anyone have the actual contrast/sharpness/color/tint/etc. settings for their TV...perhaps after a quick run-through with Avia or DVE?

Yeah I second this request.

Has anyone found out how to access the hardcore menus?

Hi. I am a neophyte when it comes to A/V equipment.I just bought a Toshiba 46HM84 based on recommendations from this board and brand reputation.
I hooked it up today and with the DVD, it looks very good. Cable, however, looks too grainy and unrefined.
I have a regular cable hookup. Is this where switching to HD cable is applicable to give me the greatest clarity and sharpest PQ possible?

Thanks,

Gary S

Yes. If you only use a composite cable, it's not HD, it's just SD resolution. THe picture will look grainy. You need to contact your cable or dish company for a HD STB that provides either component or DVI output. Then the picture quality will be improved dramatically.

OK, I fixed the Red Push/Tint, whatever you wanna call it.

Click Menu Button

Scroll Down to Picture Settings

Click Enter

The Set the Color Lower than 50( I have mine set at 34)

I also Have Brightnes at 30 ,

Scroll to next screen, and set to cool.

Save settings.

Your Mileage will vary.

Something I have also found out.

If you are using a HD Tivo connected to the HDMI port. Be aware that you will need to scroll through all the video formats evertime you either shut off the set, or change to another input. There is a button in the front of the Tivo that allows you to scoll through all the formats, make sure you do this. Otherwise the video will be degraded(Have a Pink tone thoughout the picture). You can set the Tivo remote to cyle through all the modes, if you would like.

So do not do what I did, and turned in a perfect Tivo, because I though the HDMI port was bad.

Vizcaya

I think I found out why Toshiba says not to use a PC as DVI input to this model.
I was finally able to get the desktop to fit EXACTLY on the visable screen area.
I downloaded the "leaked" Version 6.6 Nvidia drivers ( as described here)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=438498
The underground drivers are at this link: (download forceware 66.0)
http://www.osnn.net/comments.php?shownews=10882
Do this and your desktop will be PERFECT and centered....but.....

I realized that even in DVI input mode the Toshiba will still scaling (or otherwise
processing) the image....as
I could still adjust the sharpness even in DVI input mode.
I would expect sharpness to be disabled in DVI mode. Instead of
razor sharp pixels...I see slightly blurry pixels....dont get me wrong the
picture for HD broadcasts and DVD's is spectacular but it could be that
1:1 pixel mapping may not be possible for this model (I hope not) and
that would explain the sheet of paper with the manual saying that PC's
are not supported. I willl send a digital shot of a closeup view of my desktop
to show you what I mean. It' not TERRIBLE but it is not 1:1 and limits the
quality of text. I still hope there may be a way around it ...maybe in the
service manual. While I still have a great
set....I will certainly not as happy without the ability to show computer
display 1:1. WIthout this I dont have a true digital path from my pc to the
DLP mirror (pixel)....I really hope we can find a way around this. If not I
may want to sell my 4day old set at a loss and look for another HD2+ model
that has true 1:1 pixel mapping capability. We really need to access
the service menu to see if there is a workaround to this problem. I am bummed. (':mad:')

I ran an Avia sweep this morning & calibrated it like this:
Contrast-50
Brightness-55
Color-45
Tint- R 9
Sharpness- 50
The red push wound up at +5% & the green push at 0%. That's well below the 15-20% max for the red push. Of course this is on MY set & YMMV, but it's a start.

Has anyone ventured into the service menu yet? I'm wondering how much fine tuning can be done on the Toshibas. The specs say there's black enhancement but no way to turn it off in the user menu. I've been looking at these sets a bit and the blacks to me are the best of all the digital sets. However, there is some black crush.

Also, has anyone heard any word of when the 62HM84 and 62HM94 are supposed to be out? BB has both in their computer and the 62HM94 is listed with a regular price of $4199 (just $200 more thatn the 62HM84) for the regular price.

Originally posted by Victor Nowik
I think I found out why Toshiba says not to use a PC as DVI input to this model.
I was finally able to get the desktop to fit EXACTLY on the visable screen area.
I downloaded the "leaked" Version 6.6 Nvidia drivers ( as described here)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=438498
The underground drivers are at this link: (download forceware 66.0)
http://www.osnn.net/comments.php?shownews=10882
Do this and your desktop will be PERFECT and centered....but.....

I realized that even in DVI input mode the Toshiba will still scaling (or otherwise
processing) the image....as
I could still adjust the sharpness even in DVI input mode.
I would expect sharpness to be disabled in DVI mode. Instead of
razor sharp pixels...I see slightly blurry pixels....dont get me wrong the
picture for HD broadcasts and DVD's is spectacular but it could be that
1:1 pixel mapping may not be possible for this model (I hope not) and
that would explain the sheet of paper with the manual saying that PC's
are not supported. I willl send a digital shot of a closeup view of my desktop
to show you what I mean. It' not TERRIBLE but it is not 1:1 and limits the
quality of text. I still hope there may be a way around it ...maybe in the
service manual. While I still have a great
set....I will certainly not as happy without the ability to show computer
display 1:1. WIthout this I dont have a true digital path from my pc to the
DLP mirror (pixel)....I really hope we can find a way around this. If not I
may want to sell my 4day old set at a loss and look for another HD2+ model
that has true 1:1 pixel mapping capability. We really need to access
the service menu to see if there is a workaround to this problem. I am bummed. (':mad:')

Using my Radeon 9600 which apparently has HDTV compliant drivers (Catalyst 4.8 I think?) I was unable to get the picture to fully fit on the TV---PERIOD. I would be totally happy if there was a way to get it to fit on the screen and still be scaled (not 1:1 pixel ratio) as at least I could pipe my HDTV Wonder output without missing the edges of the picture (overscan)!

So yeah, I am feeling your pain here. I'm really discouraged as I was hoping I could use my PC as an HDTV Tuner, HDTV PVR and DVD player to be plugged into the TV. What is the deal with Toshiba, especially when ATI is boasting their HDTV compatibility? Even using powerstrip the image went whack before I could shrink the size down properly.

Considering this and noticing the rainbow more and more recently, I'm seriously considering returning the Tosh and getting the JVC D-ILA. Right now about the only thing I like about the TV is the contrast ratio. Bleh.

-A

Getting off the PC (or Mac) compatability for a moment, does anyone yet know the difference between the HM and the HMX models other than the bezel? I seem to recall some mention of "firewire", which I assume must be on the HMX version. Any other differences?

And following the last post, one of my concerns is that I do NOT see the rainbow effect in any DLPs, I just see a graininess in the highlights (bright areas). But I'm worried that I may buy a DLP set, like this Toshiba (which I think looks great from what I've seen so far) and then find after several weeks "oh, yeah, now I actually DO see this rainbow effect". Is that scenario common?

--Brad in Palo Alto

Originally posted by Neo42
Using my Radeon 9600 which apparently has HDTV compliant drivers (Catalyst 4.8 I think?) I was unable to get the picture to fully fit on the TV---PERIOD. I would be totally happy if there was a way to get it to fit on the screen and still be scaled (not 1:1 pixel ratio) as at least I could pipe my HDTV Wonder output without missing the edges of the picture (overscan)!

So yeah, I am feeling your pain here. I'm really discouraged as I was hoping I could use my PC as an HDTV Tuner, HDTV PVR and DVD player to be plugged into the TV. What is the deal with Toshiba, especially when ATI is boasting their HDTV compatibility? Even using powerstrip the image went whack before I could shrink the size down properly.

=================================================
Considering this and noticing the rainbow more and more recently, I'm seriously considering returning the Tosh and getting the JVC D-ILA. Right now about the only thing I like about the TV is the contrast ratio. Bleh.

And following the last post, one of my concerns is that I do NOT see the rainbow effect in any DLPs, I just see a graininess in the highlights (bright areas). But I'm worried that I may buy a DLP set, like this Toshiba (which I think looks great from what I've seen so far) and then find after several weeks "oh, yeah, now I actually DO see this rainbow effect". Is that scenario common?

--Brad in Palo Alto
-A


The leaked drivers have done the job for me. I do (as I said) get a perfect
desktop with my nvidia card. I already AM using my PC as a digital tuner
(via Myhd card) and SUPER DVD player (also myhd card). Worst case all
you need is an Nvidia vid card with DVI output.

I tried to send you screen shot ....but this silly baord software limits pix to
640x480....
Here is the sync info that might help you use powerstrip for your radeon

pixel clock 74.16Mhz
Res 1177x662

Vertical
front porch 5
back porch 78
sync +
sync width 25
refresh 60.0
active lines = 662
================
Horiz
front porch 112
back porch 320
sync +
sync width 40
active pix 1176
scan rate 45khz

Hope this helps


I just got comcast HD cable hooked up and watchd kill-bill2 DVD. The picture
quality is SUPER. I am now seeing that the lack of 1:1 mapping as
a minor annoyance since 95% of the time I will be watching glorious HD or
DVD. I am now realizing what a great
monitor I have. Sweet Sweet Eye candy it is................


Brad:

I only briefly saw rainbows in the show rooms...but now I see them all
the time but only on really weird screens like PC screen with large patches
of white etc....I rarely see them on normal hidef TV or DVD's. I look at it
as a side effect of the technology and dont let it bother me because it
dosent take away enjoyment from real content. I feel it's a small price
to pay to have such large and superb pictures in my living room. I could
have gotten an LCD or LCOS but after months of research I am still
convinced that the HD2+ rev of the DLP chip provides superior results on
the highest quality programming.

THe first day or so I had my unit (this is day 5) I was feeling eyestrain and
was freaking that I would not be able to adjust to DLP. The computer
output expecially made my eyes hurt. But after another few days I dont
notice it at all. I feel I have adapted and gotten used to it and now just
love it w/o discomfort.

Hey Victor, much thanks for the settings above. I will give them a try later once I have returned home.

As far as the rainbow goes.. I think it's nuisance is variable from person to person. And sometimes I intentionally shift my eyes quickly to 'force' seeing it. It is the most obvious and hard to miss for me during dark scenes which have bright white-like isolated objects. An example would be candle in the dark, a lamp post on a dark street, or a bright figure in the foreground with a dark background. These types of situations almost always produce rainbow for me.

Also keep in mind that it may be a factor of how close you sit to your screen. I sit fairly close (8-10ft) and this causes a larger distance for my eye to shift from one corner of the screen to another. The faster your eyes are moving trying to capture different parts of the scene, the more prone you will be to noticing rainbow in your peripheral.

For those who desperately want to feel the phenomenon but have thus far been unable too-- go into a store, stand about 5 feet away. Wait for a dark scene with some bright objects, and quickly move your eyes back and forth from one side of the screen to the other and you should easily be able to see rainbow in your peripheral vision.

-A

Does anyone know when we are going to see these models in Canada?!

I'm starting to see the Panny PT50DL54 in quite a few places but still no sign of the Tosh HM's..

I'm holding out for the 46HM84 or 52HM84 but my patience is beginning to wane :)

What the heck is the delay?!?

I'm going to be purchasing a 52HM or HMX shortly, and I was wondering if anyone can tell me how home burned DVD-R's appear on the DLP sets. Is there a noticeable difference in quality between the commercially manufactured discs and the back-ups I burned on my writer at home? I have a large collection of backed up DVD+R discs, and I want to make sure that I am not rendering them "useless" by buying a high-end monitor that would make watching them frustrating due to poor picture quality. Thanks in advance for everyone's help and reviews, you even helped sell my wife on the Tosh 52HMs!

Originally posted by vizual
Does anyone know when we are going to see these models in Canada?!

I'm starting to see the Panny PT50DL54 in quite a few places but still no sign of the Tosh HM's..

I'm holding out for the 46HM84 or 52HM84 but my patience is beginning to wane :)

What the heck is the delay?!?

From what i know, Toshiba Canada received their first sets Thursday or Friday of last week. So i guess they will start shipping pretty soon.

I live in Montreal, Canada and have been waiting for my 52HM84 for about 3 weeks now !!!

Originally posted by TheGrub
From what i know, Toshiba Canada received their first sets Thursday or Friday of last week. So i guess they will start shipping pretty soon.

I live in Montreal, Canada and have been waiting for my 52HM84 for about 3 weeks now !!!

Neat.

I gather you have already pre-paid then for your 52HM84? What is it going to be going for in Canada?

I'm guessing about 4999?

Originally posted by cycler21
I'm going to be purchasing a 52HM or HMX shortly, and I was wondering if anyone can tell me how home burned DVD-R's appear on the DLP sets. Is there a noticeable difference in quality between the commercially manufactured discs and the back-ups I burned on my writer at home? I have a large collection of backed up DVD+R discs, and I want to make sure that I am not rendering them "useless" by buying a high-end monitor that would make watching them frustrating due to poor picture quality. Thanks in advance for everyone's help and reviews, you even helped sell my wife on the Tosh 52HMs!

If you have re-encoded the movies it will depend on how much more they have been compressed from the originals. Honestly I haven't had time to watch much DVD as I've been trying to set up my HTPC.

If you are like me, and rip out everything but the movie content to get about 90% or greater of the original movie size, then you will likely not see much loss in PQ.

To easily solve this problem just go buy yourself a Dual Layer DVD burner and wait for the discs to come down in price. I think NEC has a 16x DL burner for about $90. Then cry when HD-DVD comes out because there will be no burners for them and you'll have to down convert it all to a DL 480p disc ;)

-A

For those of you worried about the rainbow effect, I haven't seen it once in viewing my TV for 5 days; then again, I've never seen it before on another TV. What has bugged me however, is blocky pixelation/blurring during fast movements while watching some HD channels. It happens all the time with the Olympics on NBC (particularly when the rings logo flashes across the screen) and on PBS-HD broadcasts, such that the picture is much better during still shots. This problem never occurs while watching HBO-HD or Showtime-HD, however. I'm wondering if this is a problem with the TV, the cable broadcast, or the HD-formats (I think NBC and PBS are 1080i, while Showtime and HBO are 720p). Has anyone else noticed this with their Tosh?

For those of you worried about the rainbow effect, I haven't seen it once in viewing my TV for 5 days; then again, I've never seen it before on another TV. What has bugged me however, is blocky pixelation/blurring during fast movements while watching some HD channels. It happens all the time with the Olympics on NBC (particularly when the rings logo flashes across the screen) and on PBS-HD broadcasts, such that the picture is much better during still shots. This problem never occurs while watching HBO-HD or Showtime-HD, however. I'm wondering if this is a problem with the TV, the cable broadcast, or the HD-formats (I think NBC and PBS are 1080i, while Showtime and HBO are 720p). Has anyone else noticed this with their Tosh?

Originally posted by nickindc03
For those of you worried about the rainbow effect, I haven't seen it once in viewing my TV for 5 days; then again, I've never seen it before on another TV. What has bugged me however, is blocky pixelation/blurring during fast movements while watching some HD channels. It happens all the time with the Olympics on NBC (particularly when the rings logo flashes across the screen) and on PBS-HD broadcasts, such that the picture is much better during still shots. This problem never occurs while watching HBO-HD or Showtime-HD, however. I'm wondering if this is a problem with the TV, the cable broadcast, or the HD-formats (I think NBC and PBS are 1080i, while Showtime and HBO are 720p). Has anyone else noticed this with their Tosh?

That is a symptom of your source. Are you getting an NBC free to air or over cable/satellite? Don't expect a lot of high-quality motion with a low-bandwidth or poor HD signal. My guess is HBO and SHO are just giving a higher quality signal with less compression.

-A

I am not really bothered by rainbow that much. The only time I can see it is when I move my eyes really fast across the screen, or i look away from the tv then move my eyes back to the TV. 99% of the time, I dont see rainbow at all. I guess this all depends on the person's eyes, some people may see more than others. The picture quality on HD has been superb.

the price for Dual layer DVD media is still very high. You can simply split the movie up to two DVD-R to keep 100% of the content.

Originally posted by vizual
Neat.

I gather you have already pre-paid then for your 52HM84? What is it going to be going for in Canada?

I'm guessing about 4999?

i have not pre-paid the TV. But the going price in canada will be around 4500$

Originally posted by Neo42
That is a symptom of your source. Are you getting an NBC free to air or over cable/satellite? Don't expect a lot of high-quality motion with a low-bandwidth or poor HD signal. My guess is HBO and SHO are just giving a higher quality signal with less compression.

-A

I am getting everything over cable. If it's my cable that's the problem, though, I don't understand why SHO and HBO would be better unless my cable service broadcasts different channels at different strengths...although I suppose this is possible. Would switching from a component hook-up to HDMI help out at all?

*Tears out hair*

Well Victor, I can't seem to get those Powerstrip settings in. I am guessing this is a limitation imposed by my Radeon drivers.


So.. I think for the time being I will just have to not hook up the TV. I just bought my tuner and video cards so I'm not going to replace either one right now. I think I will be able to play my recorded HD content through XBox but it is still a component connection, which I'm not that happy about but I guess I will get over.

I do love my set so I don't think I can return it. Maybe when someone figures out how to get to the service manual there will be some way to compensate for the lack of DVI/HDMI compatibility.

One question for all owners out there.. has anyone found any 'dark spots' on their display? In the lower right hand corner there is a cluster of about 2x3 pixels that are dark. They are not dead.. just dark. Also it's not specific 'pixels' it is just a non-pixelated dark spot. Could this be a dirty spot somewhere inside the set? It's not noticable enough to bother me.. just wondering what might be the problem.

-A

Edit: Victor, what type of GeForce card are you running? Now I'm eyeing a 5700 Ultra and returning my Radeon.. if I am sure I can make the display work I think I'll do just that.

Originally posted by Neo42
*Tears out hair*


Edit: Victor, what type of GeForce card are you running? Now I'm eyeing a 5700 Ultra and returning my Radeon.. if I am sure I can make the display work I think I'll do just that.


a good place to evaluate cards performance is
http://www20.graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031229/vga-charts-06.html

I have a NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4600

This is the compatability list form the "leaked driver" Readme I used on mine

============================================================ ====================
NVIDIA Display Driver for Windows 2000/XP version 66.00, 08/12/2004
============================================================ ====================

Operating systems supported
---------------------------
Microsoft Windows XP Home
Microsoft Windows 2000/XP Professional
Microsoft Windows 2000 Server


Adapters supported
------------------
NVIDIA RIVA TNT
NVIDIA RIVA TNT2
NVIDIA RIVA TNT2 Pro
NVIDIA RIVA TNT2 Ultra
NVIDIA Vanta
NVIDIA Vanta LT
NVIDIA RIVA TNT2 Model 64
NVIDIA RIVA TNT2 Model 64 Pro
NVIDIA Aladdin TNT2
NVIDIA GeForce 256
NVIDIA GeForce DDR
NVIDIA Quadro
NVIDIA GeForce2 MX
NVIDIA GeForce2 MX 200
NVIDIA GeForce2 MX 400
NVIDIA Quadro2 MXR
NVIDIA Quadro2 EX
NVIDIA GeForce2 GTS
NVIDIA GeForce2 Pro
NVIDIA GeForce2 Ti
NVIDIA GeForce2 Ultra
NVIDIA GeForce2 Integrated GPU
NVIDIA Quadro2 Pro
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 420
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 440
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 440-SE
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 460
NVIDIA Quadro NVS
NVIDIA Quadro4 500 XGL
NVIDIA Quadro4 550 XGL
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX Integrated GPU
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 420 with AGP8X
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 440 with AGP8X
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 440SE with AGP8X
NVIDIA Quadro4 NVS with AGP8X
NVIDIA Quadro4 380 XGL
NVIDIA Quadro4 580 XGL
NVIDIA GeForce3
NVIDIA GeForce3 Ti 200
NVIDIA GeForce3 Ti 500
NVIDIA Quadro DCC
NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4200
NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4400
NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4600
NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4200 with AGP8X
NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4800
NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4800 SE
NVIDIA Quadro4 700 XGL
NVIDIA Quadro4 750 XGL
NVIDIA Quadro4 900 XGL
NVIDIA Quadro4 780 XGL
NVIDIA Quadro4 980 XGL
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5800
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5800 Ultra
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1000
NVIDIA Quadro FX 2000

Just did yesterday, hoping to receive it in good shape within this week. I am getting Cablevision to upgrade my STB to HDTV next week and have only a progressive scan DVD player.
I would appreciate any suggestions for a better DVD player as well as any advice on connectivity issues...obviously I would like to leverage the best connections possible for the new TV.
I would also like to thank everybody on this thread who indirectly help me make a decision.:)

Originally posted by Neo42
*Tears out hair*

Well Victor, I can't seem to get those Powerstrip settings in. I am guessing this is a limitation imposed by my Radeon drivers.


So.. I think for the time being I will just have to not hook up the TV. I just bought my tuner and video cards so I'm not going to replace either one right now. I think I will be able to play my recorded HD content through XBox but it is still a component connection, which I'm not that happy about but I guess I will get over.

I do love my set so I don't think I can return it. Maybe when someone figures out how to get to the service manual there will be some way to compensate for the lack of DVI/HDMI compatibility.

One question for all owners out there.. has anyone found any 'dark spots' on their display? In the lower right hand corner there is a cluster of about 2x3 pixels that are dark. They are not dead.. just dark. Also it's not specific 'pixels' it is just a non-pixelated dark spot. Could this be a dirty spot somewhere inside the set? It's not noticable enough to bother me.. just wondering what might be the problem.

-A

Edit: Victor, what type of GeForce card are you running? Now I'm eyeing a 5700 Ultra and returning my Radeon.. if I am sure I can make the display work I think I'll do just that.

Well I had already ordered this TV before these revelations. I went the TVA route and if I can not get it to work I will be sending it back as using it as a computer monitor was a MAJOR factor in my purchase. That being said, I will do my best to work with the resources that I can bring to bear to get the ATI cards working with this set (I've got a few days before I have to send it back and from all accounts it seems like a wonderful TV). Specifically, I have the X800XT Pro and hopefully we can get some compatibility here. Anyway, mine should be delivered late this week or early next and I can get to it. Hopefully others will beat me to it. Good luck!

I finally got HD digital cable yesterday, and I watched some HD content via component cables. Discovery Home Theater and Monday Night Football were both stunning. Amazing PQ from this set!

My digital cable box has DVI out. Will using DVI improve the picture at all over component? I can't seem to find a DVI-HDMI cable for a reasonable price anywhere ($90 is way too much for a cable!). Does anyone have a good place to buy inexpensively?

Originally posted by phoenxhwk
I finally got HD digital cable yesterday, and I watched some HD content via component cables. Discovery Home Theater and Monday Night Football were both stunning. Amazing PQ from this set!

My digital cable box has DVI out. Will using DVI improve the picture at all over component? I can't seem to find a DVI-HDMI cable for a reasonable price anywhere ($90 is way too much for a cable!). Does anyone have a good place to buy inexpensively?

I got my cable (DVI/HDMI) from www.pccables.com. 2 meter was $27 shipped. I have seen a link to another affordable place that was around $20 for the cable (plus shipping).

Originally posted by teamills
Well I had already ordered this TV before these revelations. I went the TVA route and if I can not get it to work I will be sending it back as using it as a computer monitor was a MAJOR factor in my purchase. That being said, I will do my best to work with the resources that I can bring to bear to get the ATI cards working with this set (I've got a few days before I have to send it back and from all accounts it seems like a wonderful TV). Specifically, I have the X800XT Pro and hopefully we can get some compatibility here. Anyway, mine should be delivered late this week or early next and I can get to it. Hopefully others will beat me to it. Good luck!

Sadly I am disappointed with the Catalyst drivers. I have been an NVidia man for years and for that reason I decided to go for a FX 5700 Ultra and return my 9600XT. Getting the desktop to fit is partial magic, it seems, and even at that we are not able to get our full resolution. Regardless, if I can get the GeForce card to fit my desktop entirely on the screen then I will be happy.



--


On a side note, any word of finding the service menu in these guys? I think that may help us more than anything in our quest.


-Adam

For those asking here is how to get to the service menu, but I have no idea what you do after getting to it so let me know what you do from this point.

* Pick an input (Colorstream HD input 1 for example ) set the picture size to "Full"
* Press "mute" on the remote - 1/2 mute appears on the screen
* Press "mute" on the remote again - mute appears on the screen
* Press "mute" on the remote and hold the mute button -

* Press the "Menu" button on the TV's front panel. "S" will appear in the upper right corner of the screen.
* Press "menu" on the front panel again and the "S" will disappear. On the left side of the screen you will see "RCUT" followed by two numbers.

You are now in the service mode.

That's as far as I go; I am not responsible for your actions.

HD picture is stunning on the 52HM84 and SD is better than expected. Sound is excellent for a TV with the SEPARATED speakers rather than some close together on the bottom of the unit. Ordered from OneCall.com on Sunday, shipped Monday via ABF freight and received this past Friday. First LARGE purchase off the net and it went very, very well!

So far I am very impressed with the Toshiba which I compared with Samsung, Panasonic and Mitsubishi DLP sets all with the HD2+ chip.

I've had my 52in for about 10 days. HD from a comcast STB was installed Saturday and looks great. But the PQ from our local Pittsburgh CBS and ABC affiliates is much worse than HBO, Showtime, PBS, INHD, or ESPN, etc. In fact, if I go back and forth from the HD channel to the SD channel on ABC, it's hard to tell the difference except for the picture size. I'm connected to the STB with a DVI/HDMI cable.

Secondly, after running the set for 20 minutes or so when it first came out of the box, a black arrowhead shaped area in the lower right hand corner appeared. The cause was a piece of tape that had come unstuck so that a little piece rose up and blocked a small portion of the lens. When it was fixed the repairman told me that the repair manual had not yet been published.

How is the viewing angle on this TV?

Can anyone explain what the differences are between the HM and HMX models? I plan on getting one of these two models in the near future, and I found a 52HMX84 for $2996 on-line, and a 52HM84 for $3500 at BB, as well as $2700 on-line. Is the only difference in the inputs? Even the sales rep couldn't explain it, other than "It's (the HMX) just the next model higher."

The HMX has an extra HDMI input, a different color bezel, and a better internal speaker system. Thats all that i have gathered.

Vertical viewing has a tight range, but horizontal is pretty good.

For those of you that have the sets, if you're in a darkened room are the speakers on side very noticeable while you're watching the TV? (Do they reflect off the screen?)

Originally posted by CarlosC
For those of you that have the sets, if you're in a darkened room are the speakers on side very noticeable while you're watching the TV? (Do they reflect off the screen?)

I was not sure if it was going to be noticeable or not. But in my case, i don't see them at all.

Absolutely not a show stopper for me !

Originally posted by CarlosC
For those of you that have the sets, if you're in a darkened room are the speakers on side very noticeable while you're watching the TV? (Do they reflect off the screen?)

I don't notice the speakers at all! This is with the room lights on or off.

I _do_ notice, and dislike, the vertical gray bars for 4:3 content. Anyone found a way to change them to black? Black bars like the ones broadcast with 4:3 HD content don't bother me whatsoever.

To answer on the viewing angle: horizontal is very wide, and vertical is somewhat slim. Standing up from my couch that's 13' from the TV does produce a noticable darkening. Not a big issue for me though, as I spend 99% of watching time on the couch.

Oh and if anyone really wants to see this baby make some rainbows, check out Star Trek: First Contact. There's a scene right at the beginning with Captain Picard in a fairly dark room with a long BRIGHT WHITE vertical light right behind him (it's a pretty poorly composed scene - bad director!). Every time Picard moves, the camera moves with him and giant rainbows are produced. Even my "can't tell the difference between VHS and DVD" roommate saw the rainbows and asked "is anyone else seeing green?".

Wow! I completely understand gray bars on the sides of 4:3 material with a CRT display, but on a DLP where burn-in is not an issue I would've thought for sure they'd make them black. Hopefully someone has a fix for this!

i know that you can change the gray bars to black on a Toshiba CRT with the Service Menu.

So i guess we will be able to change it on the DLP too once we know how to get into the SM.

I'm not a big fan of those Gray bars either !

Originally posted by TheGrub
i know that you can change the gray bars to black on a Toshiba CRT with the Service Menu.

So i guess we will be able to change it on the DLP too once we know how to get into the SM.


There's partial instructions on page 3 (up to the S appearing on screen). Anyone know what to do from there?

Well, I see the service menu code hasn't changed. (I used to do ISF calibrations). If you decide to play in this menu, do it at your own risk. My advice would be to go through and write down ALL settings first before you try changing anything.

I am still waiting for the 62HMX94 to come out, but when it does I'll want to change the gray bars to black. I trust that whoever finds it, or anything else useful, will share the wealth.

Originally posted by phoenxhwk
There's partial instructions on page 3 (up to the S appearing on screen). Anyone know what to do from there?

SwampDawg78's instructions on how to get into service mode
worked for me. First thing I did was cycle thru the settings which
are displayed as one setting at a time per screen. I wrote down
the initial values from my 52hm84. The settings are about 50 terse three
or four letter mnemonics followed by hex values. Some of the mnemonics
can be guessed at and seem to be RGB drive controls of some kind. These
should be useful for anyone wanting to adjust any perceived bias. Some
have reported a "red push" I notice it a little but it doesn't bother me. Most
of the rest of the settings are totally meaningless without a service manual
which according to SwampDawg is not published yet. Later I will post
my list of mnemonics and hex values. As a firmware engineer my instincts tell
me that randomly tweaking these settings could easily render the monitor
broken. I have only been able to exit service mode by cycling power.
I think the first thing we need to establish is how to exit service mode and
under what circumstances are the changed values saved back to flash.

I give my vehement warning about tweaking with these values...that said
I will by and by try a few things on my unit and report. If others are fool
hardy enough to do same please post your results. Remember that screwing
around with service mode (and being caught) will most likely void warranty.

I have been calling a few places around Chicago trying to find out when the 52hmx94 will be released, and also what kind of pricing one can get for it. Does anyone have definitive info on this? Much appreciated!

Victor,

thanks for bravely volunteering to risk it all for the greater good! This weekend I will try to find my old notes from Toshibas past. Maybe they will be useful for deciphering some of the service menu codes.

With any luck we might have this thing figured out by the time I'm able to get mine.

I wonder if my old boss will let me borrow his Sencore gear for old times sake?

Can anyone tell me if there is a way to display what signal is currently being processed by the TV ?

I play alot of xbox and would like to see if the game is 480p, 720p or 1080i ?

Thanks.

Just wanted to give anyone who cares, an update on my HTPC delimma.

I am now using an nvidia 5700 ultra card. I am unable to correct overscan to make the display completely fit my 52hm84 (Using PowerStrip). This is completely disappointing to me, as it renders my TV useless for displaying HD content from my PC tuner. However, there is a clever utility bundled with Forceware called "NVKeystone" which will help you fit your Windows desktop onto your TV. Unfortunately it doesn't apply to full screen/overlay modes, so anything done in full screen will still be overscanned.

Any chance of overscan correction from the service menu? I guess for now I will just have to stick to my 19" Monitor for HD broadcasts. :mad: I thought DVI was supposed to FIX these ridiculous issues common to analog TV signals?

-A

PS: Thanks to everyone investigating the SM. I too don't like the grey bars and am not brave enough to mess with the settings.

Neo42,

Don't the latest ATI drivers for ATI based video cards (not NVidia) have some built in utilities to correct for the problem you're having? You might consider returning that Nvidia for an ATI card?

My Toshiba 52hm84 arrives tomorrow and cablevision will be bringing the HD tuner on Friday. I know that they bring the basic component cable to set up TV. Any suggestions as to HDMI cable? I went on Pacific Cable site but so many choices. Thanks.

Originally posted by tonyunclejohnny
My Toshiba 52hm84 arrives tomorrow and cablevision will be bringing the HD tuner on Friday. I know that they bring the basic component cable to set up TV. Any suggestions as to HDMI cable? I went on Pacific Cable site but so many choices. Thanks.

I got mine from pccables.com for ~$30 delivered via ground UPS. That was the "DIGITAL DVI-D-M to PREMIUM HDMI CABLE 2M 6FT."

My cable guy left me a DVI cable, but it was unfortunately DVI-DVI, not HDMI.

An aside:
Has anyone noticed low-quality color on their sets from time to time? I see it sometimes when a camera is panning. It sort of looks like something I've seen on PCs before: such as when you try to view a picture in 16-bit color, you can see all the color gradiations. Anyone seen this yet? I've observed it over component and HDMI connections, and from both my DVD player and HD cable box. It's annoying because even the most beautiful HD picture (such as from Discovery HD Theater) looks like crap sometimes when the camera moves. Maybe I've got something set wrong?

Originally posted by phoenxhwk

Has anyone noticed low-quality color on their sets from time to time? I see it sometimes when a camera is panning. It sort of looks like something I've seen on PCs before: such as when you try to view a picture in 16-bit color, you can see all the color gradiations. Anyone seen this yet? I've observed it over component and HDMI connections, and from both my DVD player and HD cable box. It's annoying because even the most beautiful HD picture (such as from Discovery HD Theater) looks like crap sometimes when the camera moves. Maybe I've got something set wrong?

If you are talking about the image being very "Pixelated and grainy" when the camera is panning fast, then i have seen it on SD a couple times. I was wondering if it was my eyes or the TV !

I havn't seen it with the DVD feed over components, and i was looking for it. So it's not a big deal for me.

Originally posted by TheGrub
If you are talking about the image being very "Pixelated and grainy" when the camera is panning fast, then i have seen it on SD a couple times. I was wondering if it was my eyes or the TV !

I havn't seen it with the DVD feed over components, and i was looking for it. So it's not a big deal for me.

I've been seeing it on both DVD and HD broadcast TV over component and HDMI. :( But yeah, it's exactly the effect you described. I can't really think of a good way to put it. Watch Scrubs on NBC HD tonight - I saw the effect everywhere on their blue uniforms every time the camera panned. I also see it in people's faces in well-lit scenes (Scrubs again is a good example).

How close or far do you sit away from the TV? I sit about 11 ft away from my TV, and have not noticed any of those effects. If I go really close to the TV, less than 2 feet, then I could see the pixalation occasionally. I think it has to do with the signal quality. Do you have cable or dish? I have cable, and the quality has been great. I have friends who have dish, and I think cable quality is better, because dish tends to compress the signal alot more to cause those pixalated effects.

Originally posted by Neo42
Just wanted to give anyone who cares, an update on my HTPC delimma.

I am now using an nvidia 5700 ultra card. I am unable to correct overscan to make the display completely fit my 52hm84 (Using PowerStrip). This is completely disappointing to me, as it renders my TV useless for displaying HD content from my PC tuner. However, there is a clever utility bundled with Forceware called "NVKeystone" which will help you fit your Windows desktop onto your TV. Unfortunately it doesn't apply to full screen/overlay modes, so anything done in full screen will still be overscanned.

Any chance of overscan correction from the service menu? I guess for now I will just have to stick to my 19" Monitor for HD broadcasts. :mad: I thought DVI was supposed to FIX these ridiculous issues common to analog TV signals?

-A

PS: Thanks to everyone investigating the SM. I too don't like the grey bars and am not brave enough to mess with the settings.



Did you try the Forceware 66.00 leaked Nvidia drivers I mentioned earlier
in this thread?...You dont get thease from Nvidia. They wear probably leaked
to the underground by an Nvidia employee. The leaked drivers do work
for me. The 66.00 driver version dosent include the 5700 in it's support list
(which I posted earlier in this thread) but I think it's worth a try. I have
the GeForce4 Ti 4600 with the 66.00 drivers and the overscan problem is
history. Hope this helps....

As for the settings in the SM...I will start playing with them very slowly as
most look very very cryptic and dangreous.

im interested in buying the Toshiba 62HM94 and saw a good deal on BigBang elec. online. Does anyone know about these guys?

Originally posted by elitelight
How close or far do you sit away from the TV? I sit about 11 ft away from my TV, and have not noticed any of those effects. If I go really close to the TV, less than 2 feet, then I could see the pixalation occasionally. I think it has to do with the signal quality. Do you have cable or dish? I have cable, and the quality has been great. I have friends who have dish, and I think cable quality is better, because dish tends to compress the signal alot more to cause those pixalated effects.

I use Dish and sit at about 12 to 13 feet from my 52HM84.

It does not happen everytime the camera is panning. But it is very visible on some scenes.

But i agree with you with the source quality. I can't see this problem when i use my LG7832/DVB318 HD DVD player.


I'll try to take a picture tonight and post it so you guys se what we are talking about.

Originally posted by elitelight
How close or far do you sit away from the TV? I sit about 11 ft away from my TV, and have not noticed any of those effects. If I go really close to the TV, less than 2 feet, then I could see the pixalation occasionally. I think it has to do with the signal quality. Do you have cable or dish? I have cable, and the quality has been great. I have friends who have dish, and I think cable quality is better, because dish tends to compress the signal alot more to cause those pixalated effects.

I sit around 12 feet from my 53HM84 and see this often (around 5 times per half hour show). I have Comcast digital cable. My DVD player is getting up there in age, at ~2 years old - it's one of the slim silver Pannys (can't for the life of me remember the model number at the moment). If my problem is the signal from Comcast, is there anything I can do about it?

Just thought I would add that I received my 52HM84 on Saturday (thanks TVA and Seiko) and its picture quality is superb. I watched The Last Samarai and I was blown away by the pic. Just beautiful.

As for the HTPC application, I have run component and am running it at a custom resolution of 1776 x 1000 via an ATI X800 XT Pro w/ Catalyst 4.9 and it works great via XP MCE. The desktop fits perfectly (very light underscan) and with large fonts the text is quite crisp but can run pretty small on certain websites (set your text size in IE to largest). For what it is worth, I know it is not 1:1, BUT I will say that the text/fonts look VERY sharp and are better than on my std. comp. monitor.

That being said, I tried 1280 x 720 via component and I've gotten HUGE overscan (no start bar; the left row of icons on the desktop are sliced in half). I am going to start experimenting with DVI - HDMI as I now have my tech support guru on hand to help me out :). In any event, this will certainly work just fine for me as a computer monitor 'as is' at the above resolution, but I will certainly work to get the appropriate 'correct' resolution.

UPDATE -- I have set Optmization 'on' for 720p in the Displays portion of Catalyst Drive Component video edit menu. By doing so, the card 'autofit' my resolution to my screen and I basically have something akin to a 1280 x 720 resolution (the actual resolution is 1152 x 648). It works very well to fill up the screen AND I can now use 'normal' size text, instead of 'large'.

I did notice something odd, when I used the TheaterWide option on the TV to zoom in on 4:3 resolutions I noticed that the left side of the screen is titled ever so slightly (meaning I have a small triangle on the left hand side of the screen). I haven't called anyone yet on that one, but I wanted to play with different sources (everything I have tried is rolling through my HTPC right now) before I sound the alarm.

In any event, a beautiful TV that just needs a little tweaking!

It would have to be a pre-ordet since the 94 hasn't been released yet. I'm waiyibg in a 52HM94 myself. I'll either buy locally or from OneCall or TVA.

Originally posted by f1restarter
im interested in buying the Toshiba 62HM94 and saw a good deal on BigBang elec. online. Does anyone know about these guys?

Has anyone noticed low-quality color on their sets from time to time? I see it sometimes when a camera is panning. It sort of looks like something I've seen on PCs before: such as when you try to view a picture in 16-bit color, you can see all the color gradiations. Anyone seen this yet? I've observed it over component and HDMI connections, and from both my DVD player and HD cable box. It's annoying because even the most beautiful HD picture (such as from Discovery HD Theater) looks like crap sometimes when the camera moves. Maybe I've got something set wrong?

I would call what I see pixelation more than low-quality color. I think it is definitely a feed problem. I saw this nearly every time movement occurred during the Olympics in HD and see it often on PBS HD, but I've never noticed it on many other channels, such as HBO HD. I sit about 8 feet from the set.

I also get some audio/video sync problems probably about 1/4 of the time. Anyone else?

And what is a good DVD player to use with the set? My old non-progressive Sony isn't getting the job done.

Originally posted by nickindc03
I would call what I see pixelation more than low-quality color. I think it is definitely a feed problem. I saw this nearly every time movement occurred during the Olympics in HD and see it often on PBS HD, but I've never noticed it on many other channels, such as HBO HD. I sit about 8 feet from the set.

I also get some audio/video sync problems probably about 1/4 of the time. Anyone else?

And what is a good DVD player to use with the set? My old non-progressive Sony isn't getting the job done.

1- I'm seeing it on SD channels too and not only HD Channels... i tried to take a picture... but could not do it... i will try again tomorow.

2- I'm using a LG7832 (Canadian clone of the Zenith DVB318) that upconverts DVD's to 720p or 1080i. It does a amazing job on this TV.

Check out my review on my 52HM84 in the thread called "My 52HM84 has arrived". There are some pictures attached.

This is just a jpeg file played on my DVD player using component cables. I do not have hd feed nor connection to my PC yet. Even with DVD resolution, I am stunned at the PQ. I can't wait to see HD and get my computer hooked up!

DLP Type R

Can you post a jpg of an image that contains a full range of colors including a flesh tone.

I've seen the Toshiba DLP twice at the local best buy and both times they were running an animated cartoon. Impossible to see just how well it handles real people.

Originally posted by phoenxhwk
I sit around 12 feet from my 53HM84 and see this often (around 5 times per half hour show). I have Comcast digital cable. My DVD player is getting up there in age, at ~2 years old - it's one of the slim silver Pannys (can't for the life of me remember the model number at the moment). If my problem is the signal from Comcast, is there anything I can do about it?

Another possible reason could be the decoding speed of your stb. What cablebox are you using. I use MOT6200 with firmware 7.15 from comcast, and have not noticed any pixalation problem even with very fast moving scence. You mentioned that your DVD player is old, is it a progressive scan player, can you try on a newer or better dvd player? I think the combination of poor signal and decoding speed will cause those effects. Maybe you can call your cable company and see if they can upgrade the cables into your house.

Originally posted by JimP
DLP Type R

Can you post a jpg of an image that contains a full range of colors including a flesh tone.

I've seen the Toshiba DLP twice at the local best buy and both times they were running an animated cartoon. Impossible to see just how well it handles real people.

Check out my thread called "My 52HM84 Has arrived" There are some SD pictures attached with flesh tones.

My 52HM84 has arrived ! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=441499)

Originally posted by teamills
Just thought I would add that I received my 52HM84 on Saturday (thanks TVA and Seiko) and its picture quality is superb. I watched The Last Samarai and I was blown away by the pic. Just beautiful.

As for the HTPC application, I have run component and am running it at a custom resolution of 1776 x 1000 via an ATI X800 XT Pro w/ Catalyst 4.9 and it works great via XP MCE. The desktop fits perfectly (very light underscan) and with large fonts the text is quite crisp but can run pretty small on certain websites (set your text size in IE to largest). For what it is worth, I know it is not 1:1, BUT I will say that the text/fonts look VERY sharp and are better than on my std. comp. monitor.

That being said, I tried 1280 x 720 via component and I've gotten HUGE overscan (no start bar; the left row of icons on the desktop are sliced in half). I am going to start experimenting with DVI - HDMI as I now have my tech support guru on hand to help me out :). In any event, this will certainly work just fine for me as a computer monitor 'as is' at the above resolution, but I will certainly work to get the appropriate 'correct' resolution.

UPDATE -- I have set Optmization 'on' for 720p in the Displays portion of Catalyst Drive Component video edit menu. By doing so, the card 'autofit' my resolution to my screen and I basically have something akin to a 1280 x 720 resolution (the actual resolution is 1152 x 648). It works very well to fill up the screen AND I can now use 'normal' size text, instead of 'large'.

I did notice something odd, when I used the TheaterWide option on the TV to zoom in on 4:3 resolutions I noticed that the left side of the screen is titled ever so slightly (meaning I have a small triangle on the left hand side of the screen). I haven't called anyone yet on that one, but I wanted to play with different sources (everything I have tried is rolling through my HTPC right now) before I sound the alarm.

In any event, a beautiful TV that just needs a little tweaking!


Welcome teamills!

I am interested in comparing the relative quality of component vs DVI. I will
post some closeup photos that show text using a DVI to HDMI cable from
my Nvidia Ti4600. Hope you can do same with you component connection.

BTW kenhdtv has done an excellent piece of work on home-brew DLP
calibration here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=442256

From my tentative investigation into the 52hm84 service menu it looks like
we may be able to adapt kenhdtv's work for the Toshiba DLP.

I've now had my Toshiba 52HM84 for a couple of weeks and I've had a chance to play with it. Overall I have to say that I'm very happy with this TV. I had a Samsung 5063 previously and I have no regrets trading it for the Toshiba. Trust me, for $3000 if I was not THRILLED I would return it. I've had zero problems so far-- no lip synch issues, color problems, rainbows, Xbox lag, etc. The only minor disappointment is I would not have chosen gray pillars for 4:3 material.

I've adjusted the picture using DVE and my favorite shows/DVDs. The following settings are my own personal taste and I would be interested in seeing how others are adjusting their sets.

HDMI w/Samsung HD841 DVD:
Contrast=50
Brightness=56
Color=38
Tint=0
Sharpness=30
Color Temp=Medium

Component 1 w/SA8000HD DVR:
Contrast=58
Brightness=50
Color=48
Tint=0
Sharpness=40
Color Temp=Medium

Component 2 w/Xbox
Contrast=100
Brightness=50
Color=50
Tint=0
Sharpness=50
Color Temp=Cool

S-Video 1 w/TiVo (standard)
Contrast=55
Brightness=50
Color=50
Tint=0
Sharpness=20
Color Temp=Medium

I really like the colors on the 52MH84; everything looks balanced. SD programs definitely look better through Tivo then the HD cablebox. HD of course looks incredible.

Originally posted by TheGrub
I use Dish and sit at about 12 to 13 feet from my 52HM84.

It does not happen everytime the camera is panning. But it is very visible on some scenes.

But i agree with you with the source quality. I can't see this problem when i use my LG7832/DVB318 HD DVD player.


I'll try to take a picture tonight and post it so you guys se what we are talking about.

Ok, i tried taking pictures again... here is what i could get... it was pretty hard to take nice pictures that realy shows what's going on.... But here it is.

It was easy to reproduce while playing an xbox racing game. Turning around and around and around was doing it.

1st shot is a shot of the car going straight. Check out the trees, grass and road. Remeber that the car is moving forward pretty fast. So IMO the definition of the trees and everything is pretty good.

http://www.creationspapillonbleu.com/52HM84/straight.jpg

2nd picture is at the same spot but i was doing circles so the whole screen is panning to the right. Look at the trees and grass and road again, it look all grainy.

http://www.creationspapillonbleu.com/52HM84/pan.jpg


i think it's dithering but i could be wrong. If it is then this tv seems to have dithering problems when the camera is panning alot.

Is this what i think ???

I will try taking better pictures.. but these are a start.

Grub, what shutter speed were those taken with your camera? Not trying to deny what you're seeing, but with my photo experience the pictures could describe motion blur caused by several frames being captured due to the camera's shutter speed not being fast enough. Most games run at 30-60 frames per second, so you'd have to have a shutter speed of a minimum of about 1/100 of a second to avoid motion blur in a fast paced game. If the pictures are describing what you're seeing, then gaming etc would be annoying with a fast paced game on the Toshiba dlp.

As requested, FLESH tones

for those of your who gor your set with the matching stand, where do you put your center channel (if you have one)?

Originally posted by David Scott
Grub, what shutter speed were those taken with your camera? Not trying to deny what you're seeing, but with my photo experience the pictures could describe motion blur caused by several frames being captured due to the camera's shutter speed not being fast enough. Most games run at 30-60 frames per second, so you'd have to have a shutter speed of a minimum of about 1/100 of a second to avoid motion blur in a fast paced game. If the pictures are describing what you're seeing, then gaming etc would be annoying with a fast paced game on the Toshiba dlp.

The shutter speed is 1/125 on these shots. You get both on the photo, motion blur and a bit of what i see.

I just realised that if i look at the top left corner of the TV and move my head real fast to the bottom right, i see the same thing !!!...

I did some searches on the net for this... and i think i found what it is. It's called "Temporal Dithering". Its when the picture kinda breaks apart into tiny small dots when there is motion in the picture or when the camera pans.

It's a DLP or single chip display problem. Some say it can be minimized with software etc.. So i guess the Toshiba doesn't do a great job to minimize the Temporal Dithering.

Originally posted by aaron20832
for those of your who gor your set with the matching stand, where do you put your center channel (if you have one)?

I mounted a shelf on the wall behind the TV.

Click here for picture (http://www.creationspapillonbleu.com/52HM84/nemo1.jpg)

Grub,
The mounted shelf behind the tv looks really good. Your set-up as a whole looks great. I currently have my center speaker on a stand in front of my current tv which means I had to get a IR repeater to enable my remote to work. I think your method looks much better.

Originally posted by Victor Nowik
Welcome teamills!

I am interested in comparing the relative quality of component vs DVI. I will
post some closeup photos that show text using a DVI to HDMI cable from
my Nvidia Ti4600. Hope you can do same with you component connection.

BTW kenhdtv has done an excellent piece of work on home-brew DLP
calibration here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=442256

From my tentative investigation into the 52hm84 service menu it looks like
we may be able to adapt kenhdtv's work for the Toshiba DLP.

Thanks for the welcome Victor. I am in the middle of a whole house wiring project so my ability to "play" with the TV is limited, however, I will try and help out where I am able. I will say that kenhdtv's project is way outside my comfort zone. That said, I can try and send pix of component up close when I get this rolling a bit better.

An interesting thing that I am getting is a 'right shift' of my image when run through the HTPC. It is not huge, but I am losing about a 1/2" to an 1 inch on the left side of the screen. This is not a problem with the set as it works fine with a direct input from satellite. Anyway, I am trying to work an adjustment to get it centered properly. Btw, any thoughts as to whether adjustments can be made on this TV for that? Otherwise I can just play with the catalyst drives as well.

One good way to scrutinize the "dithering" problem is to push the freeze button located on the lower portion of the tv's remote.

I still am not convinced, though, that this is the TV's problem. If it were, the problem should be evident during similarly fast-motioned scenes on different channels, but this doesn't seem to be the case. I've only seen it on 2 channels.

Since owners' experiences with the Toshiba seem to differ so much, I am starting to think that performance is based mainly on feed, connections, and other equipment. For example, I get noticeable audio/video sync problems nearly half of the time, while others say they've never noticed it. I can't believe that some of the tvs are better than others.

Originally posted by TheGrub
I mounted a shelf on the wall behind the TV.

Click here for picture (http://www.creationspapillonbleu.com/52HM84/nemo1.jpg)

Very nice. This is probably the ideal solution for these tv's.

I guess I might have to put it under the monitor on the top shelf.

Originally posted by teamills
Thanks for the welcome Victor. I am in the middle of a whole house wiring project so my ability to "play" with the TV is limited, however, I will try and help out where I am able. I will say that kenhdtv's project is way outside my comfort zone. That said, I can try and send pix of component up close when I get this rolling a bit better.

An interesting thing that I am getting is a 'right shift' of my image when run through the HTPC. It is not huge, but I am losing about a 1/2" to an 1 inch on the left side of the screen. This is not a problem with the set as it works fine with a direct input from satellite. Anyway, I am trying to work an adjustment to get it centered properly. Btw, any thoughts as to whether adjustments can be made on this TV for that? Otherwise I can just play with the catalyst drives as well.


Before I found the "leaked" nvidia drivers that fixed all my DVI screen
centering issues I was playing around with powerstrip and found that
"front porch" and "back porch" sync adjustments shift the picture right/left.
Try thease if your ATI driver allows this kind of adjustment else try powerstrip.

I am working on wiring as well. Gigabit Ethernet from the HTPC in the
living room to a Terabyte disk server in a bedroom. I have been in the
IT profession for a while now and it tickles me that for a few hundred dollars
I am able to create an infrastructure that a decade ago would cost a mint.

Has anyone figured out how to change the bars from gray to black when viewing 4:3 material? I'm either getting the Toshiba or the Pansonic and I don't want to get stuck with the gray bars.

Originally posted by Victor Nowik
Before I found the "leaked" nvidia drivers that fixed all my DVI screen
centering issues I was playing around with powerstrip and found that
"front porch" and "back porch" sync adjustments shift the picture right/left.
Try thease if your ATI driver allows this kind of adjustment else try powerstrip.

I am working on wiring as well. Gigabit Ethernet from the HTPC in the
living room to a Terabyte disk server in a bedroom. I have been in the
IT profession for a while now and it tickles me that for a few hundred dollars
I am able to create an infrastructure that a decade ago would cost a mint.

Great. Thanks for the advice. I am working on component and going to try and use the adjustments in the Customized Timings section of the Catalyst driver set. Any thoughts as to adjustments that can be made to the TV?

When I start messing with DVI, I will give the PowerStrip adjustments a whack.

Btw and a bit off topic (sorry), you are pretty much working on the same infrastructure wiring that I am playing with right now. I, not being an IT professional, am having to pay a "mint" to get this done!:( Btw, I am in the East Bay, but come to work in Mountain View. It looks like you are right around the corner in S.C. Very cool. More tweaking to be done tonight.

I hope someone has a simple answer to this one.

My 52HM84 is connected to a Comcast STB with a DVI-HDMI cable. In the owner's manual it says that you should turn on the TV before you turn on the HDMI source (and turn the source off first) to give the HDMI/DVI device a chance to reset. I do this, but often I don't get a connection. If I turn off and turn on both a second time, everything works fine. Any thoughts on what I may be doing wrong - or is it a problem with either the TV or the Comcast box?

Other than this, great picture and no other problems.

Originally posted by ress
I hope someone has a simple answer to this one.

My 52HM84 is connected to a Comcast STB with a DVI-HDMI cable. In the owner's manual it says that you should turn on the TV before you turn on the HDMI source (and turn the source off first) to give the HDMI/DVI device a chance to reset. I do this, but often I don't get a connection. If I turn off and turn on both a second time, everything works fine. Any thoughts on what I may be doing wrong - or is it a problem with either the TV or the Comcast box?


In addition to my other issues, I have this one as well. I haven't found a cure yet, except to turn it on and off until I get picture.

Toshiba has posted three new press releases related to their HM/HMX models on their web site. If you're interested, they can be found here:

http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/news/newsarticle.asp?newsid=154

http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/news/newsarticle.asp?newsid=160

http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/news/newsarticle.asp?newsid=161


Mostly, they contain information/specs already known about the current TVs...nothing really groundbreaking. The only item of note that I'm personally glad to see is that they're saying some of the models (including the 52HMX84) are available "now".

Hopefully that means my pre-ordered 52HMX84 is slowly making it's way from Toshiba to my house. :)

Where did you pre-order your 52HMX84?

I just got off the phone with my local BB and they said that they weren't going to be carrying the HMX84 in it's lineup but will be receiving the HM94.

Originally posted by Anthonyg
Where did you pre-order your 52HMX84?

I just got off the phone with my local BB and they said that they weren't going to be carrying the HMX84 in it's lineup but will be receiving the HM94.

YOU CAN PRE ORDER IT AT VIDEO ONLY- DUBLIN STORE..
OR email at @malayvaghela@yahoo.com

I preordered mine from Video Only in Dublin, CA (the store mentioned above by Malay). You can go to the Video Only website to see if there are any stores in your vacinity that might be able to work with you - the Dublin store, so far, has been good with me. They might also be able to ship to you...but I don't know what their policy is on shipping.

Toshiba's website also has a lookup feature that will let you look for local dealers that carry the Cinema Series televisions...all of the HMX models are "Cinema Series" and are only carried by selected retailers (BB, CC, etc. typically don't get to carry these as they're 'higher end').

Some people on the boards have also noted that they've ordered with OneCall.com. If you go to their site, they offer pre-ordering on the HMX model. I can't vouch for them, though...never done any business with them.

Hope that helps.

I can vouch for onecall.com .... bought my 52HM84 from them for 2800 shipped and financed it on their credit card for 6 months no interest.... TV came in no time without a hitch, even got a call making sure everything went smooth. Great customer service, great price, and the product came as expected. Two thumbs up.

I also got my 52hm84 from onecall (for 2843). My first big internet
purchase. Shipped same day All went as expected. Delighted with my toshiba. No
other connection with onecall except as a satisfied customer.

I really liked the PQ of the 52hm84 when i went to best buy today compared to all other dlp sets I saw. The only thing that really bothers me is that this set does not officially support a pc which is the only reason why I haven't yet bought this set.

Has anyone noticed any problems with the tv when hooking up their pc which was not correctable?

And will toshiba be shipping any other dlp's which will support a pc?

Has anyone been able to get 1:1 pixel ratio with their pc and this set?

Did anyone else notice this quote from the Toshiba press release?
"All of the DLP TVs feature the stylish cabinet design that is synonymous with Toshiba. The TheaterWide DLP units are graced with a silver cabinet with a grey bezel and the Cinema Series units are silver with a black bezel, an acrylic cover and an aluminum panel."

I wonder what the "acrylic cover" is? Could it be the dreaded Mits DLP Glare Screen returned?

There seems to be some confusion on the 'acrylic' cover issue as different press releases list it as either an 'acrylic cover' or an 'acrylic bezel cover'.

Even if it is an entirely acrylic screen cover, the Toshiba website notes that previous Cinema Series lines have had an acrylic screen cover - but that it's got a non-glare coating.

Here are the marketing blurbs on the two types of screens - the first (TheaterFine) is what the current HM models have...the second (TheaterShield) *may* be what the HMX models have...but none of the marketing for the HMXs has mentioned TheaterShield specifically...so I'm thinking they still have the TheaterFine screen...but have an extra acrylic coating on the black bezel itself to protect it. (?)

TheaterFine™ DFP (Digital Fine Pitch) Screen with Anti-Glare Coating : Toshiba DLP™ Projection TVs utilize a Digital Fine Pitch Screen. This screen helps create crisp HD resolution with its super fine screen pitch. It also has an Anti-Glare Coating to reduce unwanted reflections from ambient room light, which helps increase contrast for deeper blacks.

TheaterShield™ Plus : TheaterShield™ is an acrylic shield that protects the screen. Unlike some standard shields, the TheaterShield™ incorporates a special hard coat to resist scratching. TheaterShield™ Plus adds a new anti-reflective layer on the surfaces of the shield. This layer reduces reflectivity by over 50% and allows the shield to create higher contrast. On all Integrated HDTV and HDTV-Compatible Cinema Series® HD models, the result is a shield that provides peerless image quality in all room conditions.

Hard to say exactly what the final story is on the HMXs (unless someone's been to CEDIA and taken some up-close shots of one)...but I think they're anti-glare either way.

I have my 52HM84 for a week and really like the PQ of it. One thing bothering me is the delay time when i turn it on. It sometimes takes 1-2 minutes to have the picture shown. Wonder if anyone has this problem ?

Note that I am using QUICK START mode.

Thanks.

For some reason, I thought the "Quick Start" feature only pertained to turning the TV off and they quickly turning it back on again (within a very short period of time).

Don't have one of my own yet, though...so perhaps others could confirm/deny that this is how "Quick Start" should or shouldn't work.

Originally posted by nosered
I have my 52HM84 for a week and really like the PQ of it. One thing bothering me is the delay time when i turn it on. It sometimes takes 1-2 minutes to have the picture shown. Wonder if anyone has this problem ?

Note that I am using QUICK START mode.

Thanks.

I've had my 52HM84 for about 2 weeks, and the TV always comes on in less than 10 seconds and it takes about 30 seconds to get full colors and brightness.

Originally posted by nosered
I have my 52HM84 for a week and really like the PQ of it. One thing bothering me is the delay time when i turn it on. It sometimes takes 1-2 minutes to have the picture shown. Wonder if anyone has this problem ?

Note that I am using QUICK START mode.

Thanks.

Are you connected with HDMI or component cables? I posted last week about my problem with the resetting of the HDMI connection. Maybe I just haven't had enough patience to wait the 1-2 minutes.

I also wonder if others who get quicker pictures (like TheGrub who posted earlier) is connected with component cables or HDMI.

I have e-mailed to Toshiba about this and am waiting for a reply.

I am connecting via Component cable. It sometimes take < 30 seconds, but sometimes really slow ... :(

I'm waiting for my DVI --> HDMI cable. So for now everything is connected through componant or S-Video.

Any input that is selected when i boot the tv takes less then 30 secs to get full image.

Has anyone seen the 62HM84 model yet?

Originally posted by Ineedanewtv
Has anyone seen the 62HM84 model yet?
I'll be seeing it in my living room this Wednesday when it gets delivered! :)

--T.

Originally posted by tristanc
I'll be seeing it in my living room this Wednesday when it gets delivered! :)

--T.

How far away will you be sitting from it?

Originally posted by aaron20832
How far away will you be sitting from it?
With my current layout I'll be sitting anywhere from 8-9 feet, which should be the minimum distance on a 62 inch HD. If that proves too close, I'll rearrange furniture to get a couple more feet.

--T.

Originally posted by aerospace0007
I really liked the PQ of the 52hm84 when i went to best buy today compared to all other dlp sets I saw. The only thing that really bothers me is that this set does not officially support a pc which is the only reason why I haven't yet bought this set.

Has anyone noticed any problems with the tv when hooking up their pc which was not correctable?

And will toshiba be shipping any other dlp's which will support a pc?

Has anyone been able to get 1:1 pixel ratio with their pc and this set?

If you read thru this thread from the start you will find my (and others)
adventures along thease lines. To make a long story short. You can connect
the hdmi input to the DVI output of a PC. The issues are:

Some kind of processing is still enabled during HDMI input which results
in an acceptable but not 1:1 mapping of pixels. Fine text has some artifacts.
If your MAIN use is a computer monitor look elsewhere. If you want to use the
computer input as a way to run a front end i.e MYHTPC it is no probelm. I also
get Superb results running the MyHD capture card for HD and DVD playback.
Others has had good results using the component inputs for PC input
but of course there is still no 1:1 pixel mapping.

This monitor also has the same aprox 5% overscan issue as other HD
monitors and some people have had difficulity finding a video mode setting
to fit the desktop on the screen w/o overscanning the toolbar ....etc. I have
had good luck with certain leaked Nvidia drivers (read this thread).

From across the room with slightly increased text size this monitor works
fine for computer input. Given that I spend 95% of the time watching the
wonderfull HD picture I am all in all delighted to own my 52hm84.

There is another (more expensive) version of this monitor just around the
corner (HX series) which has 2 HDMI inoputs and other added feautures.
It will be interesting to see if this issue is addressed.

Hey all.

I managed to get the nv 66.0 drivers to work.. as they have an overscan compensation function built in for DVI output. Good stuff.

However, because I use my PC for lots of other things and because those drivers may present a stability problem, I have chosen to hold out a bit until I can build a dedicated PC to house my HDTV tuner and act as a PVR. In the meantime I can still record free to air HD content to my PC.

My only current complaint with the TV is the gray bars for 4:3 material. Otherwise, I'm happy.

-A

What do all the owners of the 52HM84 think about the Clay faces or dithering on camera pans ?

This would be my only complaint about this TV. I did not notice it on my samsung HLN and did not notice it the first week i had my 52HM84.

But now i can see it very easily !.. When the camera pans, if you look at one object in particular, sometines, there is massive posterization or Clay face artifact.

Is it only me ? Is my TV defect ? or once you see it you see it all the time ?

I know alot of people say it depends on the source and i kind of agree a bit. I can see it more often on SD then on DVD or HD. With the Xbox on First person shooter games or Racing games like Rally sport challenge 2, it's pretty obvious....

Hello guys,

I'm planning to get a 52HM84 in a couple of weeks. Here's my dillemma:

This TV has 1 HDMI port, and 2 component in

But what I'm planning to hook up to it is:

1 xbox (component)
1 PS/2 (component)
1 Nintendo Gamecube (component)
1 DVD player (either HDMI or DVI, doesn't matter cuz we can get adapters)
2 satellite receivers (one of them will be S-video, the other DVI or component (DirecTV))

So what is the best thing I can do? I have an audio receiver, Onkyo TX-SR601, and it has 2 component inputs, which means that takes care of 2 consoles and uses only 1 of the TV component inputs. Obviously DVD player will go to the HDMI port. Therefore, what I'm left with is the following:

1 console
2 sat receivers

The TV now has 1 component left, but I need 2.

I heard that there are some DirecTV receivers that have 2-3 component inputs, as well as S-video inputs, and it upconverts even the S-video out to component. That would solve it (and it would make my one S-video source upconverted, apparently...this is what a friend was telling me).

I believe it's a Samsung, or a Motoroal receiver. Any ideas? Thanks.

Oh, my receiver would also take care of the audio (3 optical TOSLINK inputs, which takes care of xbox (1) DirecTV (1) and DVD player (1)).

Thanks.

Originally posted by Victor Nowik
I also got my 52hm84 from onecall (for 2843). My first big internet
purchase. Shipped same day All went as expected. Delighted with my toshiba. No
other connection with onecall except as a satisfied customer.

Victor, are you aware of the warranty issues with buying a TV from an online store? Apparently, most manufacturers just won't honor the warranty, period, unless bought from an authorized B&M dealer/store. True?

Originally posted by ndahbar
Victor, are you aware of the warranty issues with buying a TV from an online store? Apparently, most manufacturers just won't honor the warranty, period, unless bought from an authorized B&M dealer/store. True?
Onecall.com is an authorized dealer. Check out: http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/buy/ and click the etailers link to see a list. I don't know if this is an exhaustive list or not, though.

--T.

Toshiba has updated their website to reflect the new Cinema Series (HMX) model DLPs. Probably no surprises here...but at least it's "official" information:

http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/televisions/product.asp?model=52HMX84

http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/televisions/product.asp?model=62HMX84

Edit:

The HM94 series DLPs are also up on the site:

http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/televisions/product.asp?model=46HM94

http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/televisions/product.asp?model=52HM94

http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/televisions/product.asp?model=62HM94

I am having a problem with my 52HM84. I have a HTL-HD sat receiver hooked up by a DVI-HDMI cable, and RCA cables for sound. The HTL is set for stereo sound, but the TV is not getting MTS. In the Audio menu, the MTS is greyed out, so I cannot change from MONO to STEREO. On page 51 of the manual, it says that the "MTS feature is not available if TV is in VIDEO mode". I assume that means choosing between FILM or VIDEO in the Cinema mode setting, but it doesn't change anything.
Anybody know why my MTS is greyed out?

Originally posted by tristanc
With my current layout I'll be sitting anywhere from 8-9 feet, which should be the minimum distance on a 62 inch HD. If that proves too close, I'll rearrange furniture to get a couple more feet.

--T.

That's great. I can't wait to hear your review of the tv sitting from the 8-9 distance. I'm thinking about getting the 62 but am worried about it being to big. My distance would be 10-11 ft.

-A

Just wanted to confirm: The HM84 series' HDMI port is HDCP-compliant, right?

52HM84 is dead.... after a week. It did work fine first day, then on second on it took longer to turn on. Now it is just trying to fire itself up 8 times, then red and green LED blink.

It seems that either lamp or ballast has died. I've called Toshiba today. Service center
is on the east coast. it was already closed, 4pm PST. So Toshiba tech.sup. guy said he will let me know tomorrow. We'll see how good is Toshiba support.

Apparently many Sams DLPs suffered from the same problem... Defective Phillips bulbs.
I liked it when it worked. It is pretty good picture in 1080i for 720p native resolution.
Can't wait until TI 1080p (almost) chips will be on the market.

Originally posted by dessa
52HM84 is dead.... after a week. It did work fine first day, then on second on it took longer to turn on. Now it is just trying to fire itself up 8 times, then red and green LED blink.



Oh boy ! Mine has exactly this problem, but the pic shows after 2 minutes.

Originally posted by nosered
Oh boy ! Mine has exactly this problem, but the pic shows after 2 minutes.

This is scary

Does anyone have the dedicated TV stand for the 46HM84, the ST4684?
If so, what are it's dimentions (HxWxD). I can't find the specs for it anywhere on the web. TV authority didn't even know when I called them. Also, can you put 4 components in it (cable box, receiver, DVD, and VCR)?
Leaning on this set as opposed to the sammy HLP4663

Saga continues.... I've called Toshiba again today. They said they are sending me
replacement bulb. 7-10 business days to arrive. I'll keep this list posted
with the experience :-)



Originally posted by dessa
52HM84 is dead.... after a week. It did work fine first day, then on second on it took longer to turn on. Now it is just trying to fire itself up 8 times, then red and green LED blink.

It seems that either lamp or ballast has died. I've called Toshiba today. Service center
is on the east coast. it was already closed, 4pm PST. So Toshiba tech.sup. guy said he will let me know tomorrow. We'll see how good is Toshiba support.

Apparently many Sams DLPs suffered from the same problem... Defective Phillips bulbs.
I liked it when it worked. It is pretty good picture in 1080i for 720p native resolution.
Can't wait until TI 1080p (almost) chips will be on the market.

Originally posted by Victor Nowik
If you read thru this thread from the start you will find my (and others)
adventures along thease lines. To make a long story short. You can connect
the hdmi input to the DVI output of a PC. The issues are:

Some kind of processing is still enabled during HDMI input which results
in an acceptable but not 1:1 mapping of pixels. Fine text has some artifacts.
If your MAIN use is a computer monitor look elsewhere. If you want to use the
computer input as a way to run a front end i.e MYHTPC it is no probelm. I also
get Superb results running the MyHD capture card for HD and DVD playback.
Others has had good results using the component inputs for PC input
but of course there is still no 1:1 pixel mapping.

This monitor also has the same aprox 5% overscan issue as other HD
monitors and some people have had difficulity finding a video mode setting
to fit the desktop on the screen w/o overscanning the toolbar ....etc. I have
had good luck with certain leaked Nvidia drivers (read this thread).

From across the room with slightly increased text size this monitor works
fine for computer input. Given that I spend 95% of the time watching the
wonderfull HD picture I am all in all delighted to own my 52hm84.

There is another (more expensive) version of this monitor just around the
corner (HX series) which has 2 HDMI inoputs and other added feautures.
It will be interesting to see if this issue is addressed.


Yup still struggling a bit over here with ATI and the Catalyst drivers. Note my other post for image resolutions I am using. I did hook up through DVI and received the same MAJOR overscan issues and with limited resolutions directly accessible via the Catalyst drivers.

The real interesting issue is that when running via DVI or Component my screen tilts right. I have done some testing and there is no problem with this using other sources (Satellite/DVD). I have been able to use Powerstrip to move the visible picture left. That being said, since the picture is tilting I can't align the sides up perfectly (always a bit of a gap at the top or bottom). To be honest this effect minimally impacts my ability to use the TV as a computer monitor, but just as those who can see rainbows are drawn to them like they are the only thing on the screen, it really annoys me a bit as it is truly a beautiful image otherwise.

FWIW, I will say it one more time that although there is no 1:1 mapping I have no issue with blurry fonts. Text is completely readable and does not give me any more eye strain than I would otherwise have had with a computer monitor. I am still pluggin away. In any event, I hope this helps.

Does anyone have an HM94 yet? I have a 62HM94 ordered through an online reseller who is hoping to get the set in stock between 9/20 -9/30.

Look at the Audio Authority 1154A. It will take 4 component/optical/Coax audio in and output one component/optical/Coax audio. It autodetects the input with the signal. It runs about $150.

...joe

Originally posted by ndahbar
Hello guys,

I'm planning to get a 52HM84 in a couple of weeks. Here's my dillemma:

This TV has 1 HDMI port, and 2 component in

But what I'm planning to hook up to it is:

1 xbox (component)
1 PS/2 (component)
1 Nintendo Gamecube (component)
1 DVD player (either HDMI or DVI, doesn't matter cuz we can get adapters)
2 satellite receivers (one of them will be S-video, the other DVI or component (DirecTV))

So what is the best thing I can do? I have an audio receiver, Onkyo TX-SR601, and it has 2 component inputs, which means that takes care of 2 consoles and uses only 1 of the TV component inputs. Obviously DVD player will go to the HDMI port. Therefore, what I'm left with is the following:

1 console
2 sat receivers

The TV now has 1 component left, but I need 2.

I heard that there are some DirecTV receivers that have 2-3 component inputs, as well as S-video inputs, and it upconverts even the S-video out to component. That would solve it (and it would make my one S-video source upconverted, apparently...this is what a friend was telling me).

I believe it's a Samsung, or a Motoroal receiver. Any ideas? Thanks.

Oh, my receiver would also take care of the audio (3 optical TOSLINK inputs, which takes care of xbox (1) DirecTV (1) and DVD player (1)).

Thanks.

For all of you waiting on the HMX models, crutchfield.com actually has them *in-stock* (as in ready to ship immediately).

I was a bit surprised by this, as the other retailers I've spoken with (including where I've pre-ordered mine) apparently don't have them yet and don't expect them for a week or so...but I talked with them, had them double-check the computers, and they can actually get them out the door now. :)

Hopefully that means mine is close! Good luck to anyone who gets one sooner (although I'm definitely jealous). ;)

Mmm...2HDMI Inputs

http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/products/2004/052/h05252hmx84-b.jpeg

(more photos available on crutchfield.com)

Mmm...2HDMI Inputs

I agree, but am bummed they don't have the HMX in a 46" model. 50" is pushing my size limit.

Originally posted by joewmaki
Look at the Audio Authority 1154A. It will take 4 component/optical/Coax audio in and output one component/optical/Coax audio. It autodetects the input with the signal. It runs about $150.

...joe

Awesome, thanks Joe!

EDIT: I found a guy online that sold it to me for $130 inc. shipping. :)

Sweet! This thing will be perfect. Cuz I got 3 consoles and 2 satellite receivers I need to use, and at least 3 optical audio cables. :cool:

Originally posted by KevinSDiego
Mmm...2HDMI Inputs

I agree, but am bummed they don't have the HMX in a 46" model. 50" is pushing my size limit.

Yeah...the problem with all of the 'latest' TVs (especially DLP, it seems) is that the smallest you can get them is 50+ inches. Not sure of the latest, but I thought that even Samsung has started dropping some of their 40-inch range TVs from their lineup, too (used to have 43 and 46 inchers...now mostly 50+).

Smaller than 40" and you're probably limited to CRT and LCD panels. :(

My HMX is just going in the bedroom, so 52" was definitely preferable to the 62" due to space, viewing distance constraints, and the WAF. ;)

I have searched Toshiba's site and this thread and failed to find any mention of the color wheel that is used in Toshiba's DLPs. Does someone know if it is 6-segment or 7-segment? 9,000 or 10,600 or other rpm?

Thanks.

I am confused by the new model numbers. Sometimes I see HM94 and sometimes I see HMX84, though the 2 seem to be the same. As far as I can tell, 62HM94 is the same as 62HMX84, and neither was speced out on Toshiba website last time I looked! Any ideas on this?

the 94 series will be out at the end of the month and is essentially the 84 series with a lot more features like firewire ports, cable card, dolby digital output and more...
The HMX series is the Cinema line, only comes in 50" and up and has an extra HDMI input.

I see that Toshiba now has both the HM94s and the HMX84s on their website. I think this is new since the weekend, unless I was dumb or overly drunk at the time.

Looking at the detailed descriptions, Kevin pretty much nailed it. The 94s have more 'stuff' - ATSQ/TAM tuners, firewire ports, cable card, digital output, and memory card slots. The X84s are, well Cinema line, if that means something to you, but as far as I can tell from the detailed description this really boils down to Virtual Dolby® (SRS Tru-Surround) and a black bezel (as apposed to gray) with Acrylic Cover & Aluminum Panel.

The 62HM94 msrp (on Toshiba's website) : $4,899.99, 62HMX84 msrp: $4,799.99.

OK, I"m still happy with my 62HM94 order, especially seeing the crazy msrp price!

I bought this from a local guy here in Fargo, ND (Team Electronics). They did a great job matching a price on the internet, so my only over-expense was a couple hundred dollars in tax that could have been avoided, but it was worth it for a) supporting the local guys and b) their return policy (7 day cash back, 30 exchange). They delivered it exactly on time this Wednesday. The delivery guys were almost as excited as I was, since this was their first viewing of the 62.

First impression without anything plugged in: this TV is gorgeous. I highly recommend the Toshiba stand with this model. It melds together so perfectly that you would think that it's all one unit. I really like the side speakers after being somewhat put off by them. They stretch the TV just a bit more and really give it a theater quality feel. Plus, I don't have a surround speaker setup yet, so the speakers on the side seem to fill the room better than a single set of speakers located under the TV. With the stand, all my current electronics fit under it, though the one big missing piece is a dedicated receiver (all in due time) and currently that includes: large DVR cable box, DVD player, Xbox, PS2, cable modem, and router, all with no stacking.

So the following are thoughts I've had while using the TV over the course of the past couple days. I’m a newb at this, so take it all with a large grain of salt—it’s just my opinion.


#1: Hi-Def channels. I currently only get 4, but they're four good ones: HBO, ShowTime, TMC, and ESPN. I have not seen an HD version of a sports game yet--that'll wait till Sunday night. But the other 3 channels look just phenomenal. I was blown away by the fact that I was watching a movie on TV that looked this good. It was similar to when I bought my first DVD player some 6 years ago and had my first hand viewing of a DVD movie.

#2: SD channels: It's hit or miss right now. My digital channels (100+ for me) all look fantastic. I let the Toshiba stretch it and it actually looks eye catching-ly good. Most of the analog channels look bad though. Lot's of digital artifacts and pixilation. However, I watched Survivor last night on CBS and the picture for one reason or another looked awesome. I actually thought it was HD for a moment. All in all, the SD quality has been a huge surprise.

However, I've noticed sometimes that the quality dropped between shows for no good reason. My cable box is a DVR and I think the MPEG encoder on it just doesn’t do a good job with the analog signal. I’ll try a direct connection by passing the box and see if those channels look good.

This set, though, will get me to watch the digital channels more though, just to get the cleaner image.

#3: I hate the stupid gray bars. I mean, I really, really hate them. The black bars used when hi def channels show 4X3 aspect ratios programming are perfect and when those are on you have a really nice, large TV that just happens to be in 4X3. For instance, my tv in 4X3 mode is roughly a 50 inch TV. But with the gray bars, my eyes are constantly distracted by them. Hands down this is one of the worst decisions by Toshiba regarding this set.

#4: Xbox. I bought this as both a great movie TV and more so as a video game monitor, and it does not let me down. The image is absolutely gorgeous, just stunning. I noticed NO delays at all, and I tried a few to see if I could notice it. But from my simple test, clicking a button on the controller had immediate effect in the game. I'll update if I notice anything different. There’s nothing better than widescreen gaming in HD, though (well, at least 480p…).

#6 DVD: I have the special edition version of Fargo, which has some beautiful scenes. There's a part about a little over a quarter of the way in when the two kidnappers have the wife in a car and are driving through Brainard at night where the blackness surrounds the interior of the vehicle and other lighting effects are beautifully used. I was able to adjust the settings so that this scene was very striking. Also, the intro with the scene filled all white with the snowy landscape is breathtaking on this set.

DVDs in general look freakin' awesome on this set. I'm totally blown away. No mosquito noise, clay face (whatever that is), or rainbows. I have this set hooked up to the newly purchased Toshiba SD-3960 and I've no complaints there either (other than eject speed--takes like 4-5 seconds, so I usually do it with the remote to get a head start).

Finally, just a bulleted list of thoughts I have about the set:

1) Lack of inputs suck. Really bad. You basically get 3 HD inputs: 2 components and 1 HDMI. I've already exceeded this, so I either get the cablebox to do double duty, or get a switch of some kind.

2) Already mentioned, but worth saying again: gray bars for displaying 4X3 is teh suck. If they used solid black, it'd be perfect. This set has a gorgeous "inky" black that looks almost wet. Those would look so much better.

3) The side speakers I believe create a richer sound. Speakers sound really good, very crisp. But note that I have a lack of audio experience, so if you're used to the best, you may think different.

4) Lack of custom creation of new labels for Inputs is annoying. You have 4 choices, it appears, so I couldn't add one for XBOX, PS3, and GameCube. But you can custom label channels, so why this limitation exists you got me.

5) I wish I could get the set to tell me what mode the input is being received in. I've had two cases so far where I incorrectly configured a device, the TV up-converts it (very well), but I'm left with this nagging feeling that it's "not quite right." Fixing the device caused it to look even better but I only knew to fix it cause I stumbled across it.

6) I'm sitting 8 feet back or so, the bare minimum with this set. I'd probably recommend adding another foot or so, though I'll be leaving mine as is. I’m a fan of large screens…

Ok, that's the initial thinking for now. Final thoughts: I absolutely love this set. It's huge, beautiful, diverse, and best of all, well priced.

--T.

Wow...great feedback tristanc - well thought out. I like your inky/wet description of the blacks on this set...very much like what I've seen from them so far, and one of the reasons I'm currently going with the Toshibas.

How about some pictures of the set showing the differing sources you've mentioned below (HD, SD, Xbox, DVD, etc.)? ;)

Also - which inputs did you decide to go with on this? I'm assuming cable box is HDMI while Xbox and DVD are component?

Just a small review on my purchasing experience with TV Authority.

Before placing my order for a 52HM84, I contacted TVA to check on shipping time. I was told that they were in stock for immediate shipping (and 5-7 days for delivery to the east coast). Great. I took up their powerbuy and purchased it the next day. I received a automated confirmation email immediately, and then the time warp started. Nothing for several days. I contacted them to find out my status and was told it would ship tomorrow or the next day.

In the meantime, the amazing onecall price offer was released. So I contacted them again, and they said it had shipped. So where was my confirmation number? At this point, we've reached a week, so I'm understandably annoyed. I contacted Neil to find out if they would do any sort of price matching on the onecall deal. He promised to call me "within the hour" to let me know. This was the last day of the onecall deal, so he was nice enough to let me wait for 4 hours until the end of the business day ... at which time the onecall deal had ended. Finally, he called me back to say "we'll do something for you, but we don't know what yet", and promised to call me back the next day. The onecall deal was now over, so I had to take his word for it. And then nothing. It's been three weeks since that promise and I haven't heard anything. I've emailed with no response (he was "in a meeting" when I tried to get in touch with him).

So basically, TVA used shady tactics to delay me long enough to miss the deal that would have resulted in me cancelling the order. The only reason I hung around was because I really wanted to think that he was telling me the truth that "he wanted to work with me" on the deal. In the meantime, my set was delivered, making this no longer their problem. Clearly, I have made my first and last purchase with TVA.

(I do love the TV through. I'm just miffed about paying $250 too much for it and being lied to over and over again by TVA's staff).

Hi All,

I have added this thread to the Toshiba section of the "Popular Thread" post stuck near the top of the forum thread list.

tristanc,
What's the height on the dedicated stand? Looking at the ST4684 stand for the 46HM84/94 it looks a little short, and would have the tv and slightly below eye level. Is this the case? Hope I'm wrong.

Also, once you get a receiver you can use that as a hub, connecting all of your componenet devices into that, then just use one component connection on the tv.

I know others were trying to get rid of the gray bars and make them black (if possible). Anyone have any luck?

Originally posted by KevinSDiego
tristanc,
What's the height on the dedicated stand? Looking at the ST4684 stand for the 46HM84/94 it looks a little short, and would have the tv and slightly below eye level. Is this the case? Hope I'm wrong.

The stand height is deceptive, since the tv actually sinks into the stand a few inches.

--Total height of stand is is 21 1/2
--TV bottom rests in it at 17 (that is, the bottom of the Toshiba sits 17 inches off the ground)
--The picture actually starts at 26 inches above ground. With my furniture and my height, eye level for me is about 42 inches. Total picture height is from 26 inches above ground to 56 1/2 inches above ground, which is almost dead center with my eye level.

With a smaller set, you may be looking down at it, unless the 46 inch stand is a little taller (since your eye level will be the same and the picture will start roughly at the same height, but the top of the picture will be shorter).

--T.

tristanc,
Nice review of the set. I have the 52HM84 and agree with your observations. I too hate the gray bars and wish there was a way to make them black. Overall though I love the set.

Originally posted by varkus
Wow...great feedback tristanc - well thought out. I like your inky/wet description of the blacks on this set...very much like what I've seen from them so far, and one of the reasons I'm currently going with the Toshibas.

How about some pictures of the set showing the differing sources you've mentioned below (HD, SD, Xbox, DVD, etc.)? ;)

Also - which inputs did you decide to go with on this? I'm assuming cable box is HDMI while Xbox and DVD are component?
Thanks varkus! I'll grab some pictures as soon as I borrow a digital camera from friend (I'm old school when it comes to cameras :) )

My current hookup is: cable through HDMI-DVI cable (outrageous cost, by the way--almost gave me a heartattack when I saw it. This after dropping 4 grand on the TV.) I have the DVD connected through component and the XBOX through the Xbox HD pack, which is also component. PS2 is through composite cables, though honestly I haven't even bothered with it yet, so I don't know how it'll look. Ditto with gamecube, though I heard even if I wanted to go component I'd have a hard time finding the cables.

Eventually I'll buy a reciever, but that'll have to wait a while (like 2+ years). I've never bought anything this expensive before, so I get real anxious every time I see more costs being added to it (or even just think about how much I dropped on it). Then again, every time it does something awesome, I'm doubly pleased. Or, every time I one handedly push it away from the wall to plug something in. Or when I saw the "sharpeness" test pattern on the AVIA disc and it was spot on. Or while I play a game in the middle of the day without squinting and saying, "Where am I at?"

No regrets at all, at this point.

And if someone can figure out how to turn those stupid gray bars to black, I'll be even happier!

--T.

tristanc,
Does the TV swivel on that little bottom part of it over the stand? it looks like it would.

tristanc, i sent you a PM. thanks.

Can someone post a pic of one of these Tosh units with the gray bars? I also strongly prefer the black bars, but with these dumbo-eared speakers on the sides, I'm curious if the gray blends in with the speakers somewhat.

I'm about to purchase the 46HM84, and I want to make sure this isn't something that I won't be able to live with since I hate streching SD video.

Thanks - Z

Originally posted by zj4x4
Can someone post a pic of one of these Tosh units with the gray bars? I also strongly prefer the black bars, but with these dumbo-eared speakers on the sides, I'm curious if the gray blends in with the speakers somewhat.

zj4x4,
They don't blend, at all. Trust me on this. However, any channel with a good enough feed stretches very well. The only time I don't stretch now is when the feed is so poor that the digital noise is exasperated by the stretch. Still hoping to find the hack that turns those to black...

KevinSDiego,
The stand does not swivel. If you look at what appears to be the bottom of the TV (look at the Toshiba label), the actual set continues down for another 8 inches or so. The sides of the stand are taller than the middle part and the sides of the TV start a few inches above the middle. The TV itself rests on these low posts on the top shelf. Kinda like a lego block.

--T.

Thanks tristanc.

There must be a way in the service menu to change the color.

Crutchfield is listing the 52HMX84 in stock. They're usually accurate, which makes me believe the HMX model is finally starting to roll out. Hoping to get the call to alert me my set is in stock. I will take plenty of pictures once I get it set up, xbox shots as well....oh the waiting game!

Huh?! You guys are saying you cannot choose the color of the side bands to be either grey or black? They are always grey, period?

Wow, if that is the case...MAJOR STINKO. This *might* affect my decision to go with this TV. Yep, I'm that anal.

EDIT: I just went through the entire user manual: http://tacpservice.toshiba.com/ConsumerProductSupport/Manuals/TV/2004/46_52_62HM84.pdf

You guys ARE indeed right, there is no way to change the sidebars/bands from gray to black.

Wow. Unbelievable. What are they thinking? This is a DLP set, it won't have burn-in! What a poor marketing decision. So poor...it may just be the showstopper for me to buy it. We shall see.

Alright, calm down dude.
There's some hope for you. Toshiba has 4 different stretch modes so you can eliminate the bars with some distortion and cropping of course. Better yet, I just rented an HD STB and the bars are now black. My box is SA3100HD but others may do similar.

Down the line, there should be a way to change the gray to black.

Someone mentioned Gamcube. The component cable is available direct from Nintendo on their site for $29.99. Almost every GC game is progressive and it looks great on the 52HM84. Even the gameboy player outputs progressive and gameboy games in progressive at 52" look like you have a 52" gameboy. Xbox looks really great component as well, and almost all xbox games are progressive. Haven't got PS2 component cables yet, but there are almost no ps2 games that are progressive anyway.

Originally posted by mlankton
Someone mentioned Gamcube. The component cable is available direct from Nintendo on their site for $29.99.
Thanks for the great tip! I just placed an order.

--T.

Originally posted by DLP Type R
Alright, calm down dude.
There's some hope for you. Toshiba has 4 different stretch modes so you can eliminate the bars with some distortion and cropping of course. Better yet, I just rented an HD STB and the bars are now black. My box is SA3100HD but others may do similar.

Down the line, there should be a way to change the gray to black.

So you saying depending on the source input, u can get black sidebands? Myself am planning to go with DirecTV.

Yeah, I guess. Well, I think i'm gonna go for the 52 nonetheless. Gonna buy it from a local store anyway, so if it really annoys me I can just return it. Most certainly worth the shot. I loved the PQ for this thing, and for the price, it is the best PQ/value combo for any DLP set for me right now.

I just came back from BB tonight looking at the Tosh. I brought along the LOTR Two Towers DVD and had the BB guys play it on a new Tosh DVD player with HDMI interface. The picture did not look good at all because it was all grainy and slightly fuzzy.

I tried to adjust the TV but can't seem to do it. I read in previous threads how I had to go into Menu > change Picture Mode to Preference, and then select "Picture Settings", and hit the "ENTER" key (the one to the lower left of the directional keys on the remote. But nothing happens at all when I did this repeatedly. What am I doing wrong? The BB guys were no help at all.

Even just looking at the BB HD feed, the Tosh picture was clearly inferior to the Capt Kirk. I was told that the Samsung reps just came in yesterday and adjusted all the Samsung sets though. I am sure the Tosh PQ adjustments are all screwed up.

Another question: can the Tosh do 720p up conversion of 480p DVD content? If so, how can I tell if it's doing it or not?

Originally posted by Minja
I just came back from BB tonight looking at the Tosh. I brought along the LOTR Two Towers DVD and had the BB guys play it on a new Tosh DVD player with HDMI interface. The picture did not look good at all because it was all grainy and slightly fuzzy.

I tried to adjust the TV but can't seem to do it. I read in previous threads how I had to go into Menu > change Picture Mode to Preference, and then select "Picture Settings", and hit the "ENTER" key (the one to the lower left of the directional keys on the remote. But nothing happens at all when I did this repeatedly. What am I doing wrong? The BB guys were no help at all.

Even just looking at the BB HD feed, the Tosh picture was clearly inferior to the Capt Kirk. I was told that the Samsung reps just came in yesterday and adjusted all the Samsung sets though. I am sure the Tosh PQ adjustments are all screwed up.

Another question: can the Tosh do 720p up conversion of 480p DVD content? If so, how can I tell if it's doing it or not?

Oh man, trust me, the Tosh 84 line looks EVERY bit as good as the Sammy kirks. It looked completely superior in PQ compared to the popular Sammy 63-series (HD3 chip). So yes, the dweebs totally set it up wrong.

Originally posted by ndahbar
Oh man, trust me, the Tosh 84 line looks EVERY bit as good as the Sammy kirks. It looked completely superior in PQ compared to the popular Sammy 63-series (HD3 chip). So yes, the dweebs totally set it up wrong.


Great! I was hoping that was the case.

Any idea why I wasn't able to adjust the picture quality (brightness, contrast, etc.)? It was probably pilot error.

Also does the Tosh do up conversion to 720p from DVD?

Originally posted by Minja
Great! I was hoping that was the case.

Any idea why I wasn't able to adjust the picture quality (brightness, contrast, etc.)? It was probably pilot error.

Also does the Tosh do up conversion to 720p from DVD?

Well, before you spend time adjusting the PQ, you gotta check the source input, right? ;)

No seriously, check to see what is going on at the rear...and compare to the other sets on display that looked good to you.

And as I understand it, for upconversion, yes, all the DLPs have native of 720p and that's what you'll get for a display resolution, meaning it will "upconvert" 480i/p and "downconvert" 1080i. Although of course the orig rez will affect the resultant PQ. Well, someone will correct me if I'm wrong in about 2 seconds. :cool:

Originally posted by ndahbar
Oh man, trust me, the Tosh 84 line looks EVERY bit as good as the Sammy kirks. It looked completely superior in PQ compared to the popular Sammy 63-series (HD3 chip). So yes, the dweebs totally set it up wrong.

I'll second that! I recently spent several hours comparing pictures on the Tosh 52HM84 and the Sammy 50" Kirk model to other DLP's and LCD's. Both were dead even in terms of the picture quality and brightness. And in my opinion, both had superior pictures to the other DLP's (HD3 and HD2 based) on display. They have what I best describe as a 3D look to them. I think it's due to the increased constrast of the HD2+ chip along with very good color accuracy. It's something I've only seen on good plasmas.

I've finally decided to go with the Toshiba 94 series when it is released, supposedly in October. After years and years of following HD displays and drooling all over myself, I can hardly wait! :-)

Any bodified geek interested in measuring the gamma of the new Toshiba.

Just wondering if its closer to 1.8 rather than 2.2 to 2.5. That might help explain things.

Originally posted by ndahbar
Well, before you spend time adjusting the PQ, you gotta check the source input, right? ;)


The source was a brand new Tosh DVD player connected to the TV via the HDMI cable that came with the DVD player. Don't remember the model of the DVD player but BB just had them for 2 days.

Can one of the owners of this set please verify whether I was doing the right steps in trying to adjust the PQ (see prior post)? It obviously didn't work. I'd like to go back to BB and try again. Thanks.

Hit the enter button on the remote.

Does anyone know of a link to the dimensions for the 62HM84? I know it's 67-1/16"W, 41-15/16"H, and 18-3/16"D. I'm looking for the Height of the width of base. Usually there's a spec sheet with all the specifics of the dimensions but I can't seem to find it on Toshiba's website.

Download the pic from the Tosh website, print it out and measure the width and do a ratio with the base. You will get a pretty accurate measurement.

Hope this helps.

According to my calculations, you're looking at approx. 6.3" +/- 0.5" high.
Someone correct me if I am way off.

:D Have now owned my 52HM84 for a month and thought I would post my impressions.

* SD Quality - actually better than expected

* HD Quality - Gorgeous !!!

* Inputs - Enough for now, but I do see future needs for more HDMI inputs. HDMI switch prices will come down.

* Preference setting for each input is a must and this set has it!

* Speakers on the Sides - When watching regular programs which are broadcast in stereo the side speakers provide provide a reasonable stereo image. Sets with the speakers at the bottom will not give you this. I like the side speakers; they do not distract me.

* Rainbows - None with my eyes.

This set has the best overall pkg compared to HD2+ sets from Samsung, LG, Mitsubishi & Panasonic.

Got it from OneCall; great transaction & would order from them again. Took less than a week to arrive via motor freight in perfect condition !

Very pleased with the purchase!

Below is a pic of my set:

Sony ES receiver
Samsung SIR-TS360 Direct TV HD receiver
Monitor Audio speakers
Panasonic DMR-E30 DVD Recorder
JVC S-VHS VCR
Sony CD changer

Nice info - glad to hear more positive feedback on the Toshiba's...and to see some more pictures. :) Hopefully, as more people on the board get them, we'll get more reports like this.

Also - glad to hear that this PQ was through the SIR-TS360, as that will be the receiver I have hooked to my HMX as well.

Originally posted by varkus
Nice info - glad to hear more positive feedback on the Toshiba's...and to see some more pictures. :) Hopefully, as more people on the board get them, we'll get more reports like this.

Also - glad to hear that this PQ was through the SIR-TS360, as that will be the receiver I have hooked to my HMX as well.

I too am highly intruiged by the TS360 to serve as my DirecTV STB...but I also want recording capability! What should I do? Any recommendations?

If you wanna record HD...there's only one option right now for D* that I'm aware of - the HD Tivo. :)

I'll probably break down and get one sooner or later, but for now I'm content to tape SD on my regular D* Tivo and simply watch HD in real-time.

Even TVs like the Mits XX825 series with a built-in PVR may or may not work very well simply because they're not really designed to record from D*. Their guides and programming options would be pretty limited and you'd have to spend an awful amount of time making sure your D* receiver was set to the right channel at the right time to record (and that's assuming the set would allow you to tape programming via the DVI-D or component inputs from the receiver).

In addition to the HMX sets on Crutchfield.com, I just noticed that OneCall.com is finally reporting stock on the HMX series TVs...or at least the 52".

52HMX84
http://www.onecall.com/PID_23619.htm

Also...the local retailer I pre-ordered my set from (Video Only, locations in northern California & the PNW) was expecting them in today, but the truck was delayed for a day or so...

Either way, it sounds like more and more people should start seeing these (and hopefully reporting on them) soon! :)

Did anyone notice on the oncecall listings of the xxx94 series that they have TWO HDMI slots? I thought only the HMX series was getting 2. Also something very nice on the xx94 is the optical digital out

here (http://ww2.onecall.com/PID_23596.htm)

This came up on another thread (or earlier in this one)...and some of the OneCall stats on the HM94 models seem to be incorrect.

Per the specs on Toshiba's website (www.tacp.toshiba.com), the 46HM94 and 52HM94 only have one (1) HDMI input...just like the HM84 series.

The confusion probably comes about in the fact that Toshiba's specs for the 62HM94 state that is has 2 HDMI inputs.

Bottom line...per Toshiba's specs (which I'm hoping are correct), the only DLP TVs they offer with 2 HDMI inputs are the 52HMX84, 62HMX84, and 62HM94. The 94 series TVs obviously have a much wider selection of *other* inputs...but on the 62" has 2 HMDI.

Detailed spec sheets are here:

52HMX84
http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/pdf/52hmx84.pdf

62HMX84
http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/pdf/62hmx84.pdf

46HM94
http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/pdf/46hm94.pdf

52HM94
http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/pdf/52hm94.pdf

62HM94
http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/pdf/62hm94.pdf
*note: even the 62HM94 spec sheet seems to have some discrepancies (which is why OneCall may be confused) - the first page clearly says 2 HDMI inputs...but the specs on the second page state only 1.

When are these silly toshiba engineers finally going to "officially" support a pc connection? Because that is the only reason for me to not buy a toshiba dlp.

Yeah...an RGB input and 'official' support would be nice (heck...more inputs is always better)...but clearly the HM/HMX series can be used with PCs with a pretty high level of quality.

A number of people in this thread have posted the settings they've used that seem to work pretty well over DVI...albeit I haven't seen anyone get an exact 1:1 pixel mapping yet. :(

Originally posted by varkus
Yeah...an RGB input and 'official' support would be nice (heck...more inputs is always better)...but clearly the HM/HMX series can be used with PCs with a pretty high level of quality.

A number of people in this thread have posted the settings they've used that seem to work pretty well over DVI...albeit I haven't seen anyone get an exact 1:1 pixel mapping yet. :(

Screw 1:1. What are we talking about here percentage-wise? 99%? 90%?

I have the 52" Toshiba DLP from Best Buy.

I noticed that in certain light I can see what appears to be a "wrinkle" behind the front protective screen.

This normal? what could it be?

Also, when viewing "snow" on the ANT input with no signal (or any input with a 4:3 source) the square box appears to be "bowed" inwards on the sides so the image is not perfectly square.

Can DLP's have geometry issues?!

Is this normal?

I am going to go the Best Buy and look at their set and see if it exibits the same problem.

The set is not even a week old.

I am just paranoid because I spent $3099 + tax and I want to make sure I don't have a lemon... I did get the 4 year PSP, but new is new - ya know ;)

thanks - mario

I have the 46" and I love it, but I have a newbie question to ask...Does this TV support 480p, 720p and 1080i? I want to know for my Xbox. The Xbox dashboard asks which formats your TV handles. Any other Xbox owners out there - what settings did you put in your dashboard to get best quality? BTW using Microsoft's Hi-Def pack.

Thanks,

It supports all formats: 480p, 720p and 1080i.

Enable all these options in the dashboard and when a game supports one of those formats the xbox will output it.

Xbox games are amazing on this TV!

Great, thanks Grub! I assumed so, it's nice that the Xbox will correctly display when it's needed.

I should put the screen setting in the dashboard to widescreen then instead of 4:3 or letterbox? Do I have to change that setting based on which game I play or just leave it and use Pic Size on the tv?

BTW which Pic Size setting do you use playing Xbox - TheaterWide 1, 2, Full, None?

Thanks, just trying to ge the best experience I paid for.

Well, my DLP choice is down to the Toshiba 62HM84, 62HM94,62HMX84, or the Pansonic 60DL54 which the 50" is no where to be found in my area. I had pretty much ruled out the 62HMX84 since no one in Cinci, OH will carry it. I did however find out that a store call Pieratt's in Lexington, KY is supposed to have it in around October 1st (which is possible since Crutchfield expects it in stock on Sept. 30th). I talked to the sales guy over the phone and he says they will deal on price and the 5 year warranty is 5 years for $399 and the bulb is included. I do question the warranty about the bulb since HH Gregg, Best Buy, and Circuit City's warranties do cover it but the HH Gregg's 5 yr is $499, BB's 4 year is $399, and CC's 4 year is $599. If what he said was true and he'll cut me a good deal it looks like the 62HMX84 will be for me. If so, now the question is how do I get the thing 2 hours up the road without spending hundreds on a van rental.

Originally posted by Maddug
Great, thanks Grub! I assumed so, it's nice that the Xbox will correctly display when it's needed.

I should put the screen setting in the dashboard to widescreen then instead of 4:3 or letterbox? Do I have to change that setting based on which game I play or just leave it and use Pic Size on the tv?

BTW which Pic Size setting do you use playing Xbox - TheaterWide 1, 2, Full, None?

Thanks, just trying to ge the best experience I paid for.


I set the xbox to widescreen and the TV to Full.

Has anyone yet been able to find out what the contrast ratio is for the HMXs??

Help! Just sat down to watch a little HiDef on my 52HM84 and everybody is green! I have my HiDef tuner from cablevision and TV attached with a DVI/HDMI plug. I switched it over to component cables with no luck. Any ideas as to what could be the problem? I just got it on September 8 and to date it has looked beautiful.

Originally posted by Lodey
Has anyone yet been able to find out what the contrast ratio is for the HMXs??
I believe all HD2+ chips have a contrast ratio of 2500 to 1:

http://www.digiupdate.com/105_DLP_RPTV.html

--T.

Originally posted by tonyunclejohnny
Help! Just sat down to watch a little HiDef on my 52HM84 and everybody is green! I have my HiDef tuner from cablevision and TV attached with a DVI/HDMI plug. I switched it over to component cables with no luck. Any ideas as to what could be the problem? I just got it on September 8 and to date it has looked beautiful.
How do DVDs look? If DVDs are fine, it sounds like a source problem.

--T.

How do DVDs look? If DVDs are fine, it sounds like a source problem.

Well the dvd's are green too! Do you think it's the color wheel?

How do DVDs look? If DVDs are fine, it sounds like a source problem.

Tristanc,

Just put the Hulk in and he is a little too green. I bought this from PC Richard in New Jersey. I guess I will be calling them tomorrow. Any clues as to what it could be?

Originally posted by tonyunclejohnny
Tristanc,

Just put the Hulk in and he is a little too green. I bought this from PC Richard in New Jersey. I guess I will be calling them tomorrow. Any clues as to what it could be?
No clue, unfortunately. You had ruled out the inputs, so the next step was to rule out the source.

One thought: have you powered it down and left it off for a few minutes yet? Try letting it reset itself to see if it autofixes...

--T.

That did the trick. Thanks for your help.

Good. Cuz that exact set that I saw in the store, man, did it look sweet, AMAZING colors. They had some channel showing Hawaii footage, the girl in the foreground had a vivid red colored dress, and the background was lush green vegitation. The Samsung HD3 next to it couldn't hold a candle to it when it came to color reproduction. I tried adjusting the Sammy every which way, didn't even come close to the Toshiba. The sales tech agreed too. The Sony Wega LCD on the other side looked pretty darn good too for the color and realistic sharpness, but still not like the Tosh. HD2+ sets own. Especially the Tosh, for the asking price.

A tip for you ps2 owners out there: buy the component cables. I initially wasn't going to buy them because so few ps2 games support progressive scan but then I found them online for $7 new. It is amazing how much better games look on the set with through the component hook-up. Even with non-progressive games, the pic is much crisper and the colors much fuller.

Does anyone have the Toshiba SD-5970 DVD player with the HDMI connection? Also, for anyone with a regular progressive scan player (i.e. under $100), how is your picture? My old non-progressive Sony isn't cutting it and I'm trying to decide whether to buy one that upconverts or one that is just progressive scan.

Originally posted by nickindc03
A tip for you ps2 owners out there: buy the component cables. I initially wasn't going to buy them because so few ps2 games support progressive scan but then I found them online for $7 new. It is amazing how much better games look on the set with through the component hook-up. Even with non-progressive games, the pic is much crisper and the colors much fuller.

I was hoping to find a Tosh HM owner with a PS2... You can guess my question....

Is there any lag between the button-push and the activity on the screen when you play the PS2 on the Toshiba HM DLP?

Originally posted by Quill
I was hoping to find a Tosh HM owner with a PS2... You can guess my question....

Is there any lag between the button-push and the activity on the screen when you play the PS2 on the Toshiba HM DLP?

Nope, no lag. I've been playing Gran Turismo 3 and it feels great!

I am considering selling my panny 42 HD Plasma and replacing it with a Rear Projection 50 to 52.

1) has anyone here compared the Sony GWIII to the Toshiba side by side with the same feed (I have a 60" GWIII and simply love it, and find it more pleasing than the sammys).

2) has anyone here achieved 1 to 1 mapping with either Bravo player?

3) if yes above, how profound are the differences over component.

4) and the million dollar question: is anyone here using the 52 and sitting 6 to 7 foot away (its why I'm selling the plasma---I can see the pixels too easy) and having any issue with screen door. I know its a very close viewing distance.

I also have a Toshiba 32 LCD Flat panel and the Bravos with DVI out are amazing. I would have just gone with the Sony but it does not map to the Bravos.

Plus, the Toshibas look so cool.

Originally posted by Quill
I was hoping to find a Tosh HM owner with a PS2... You can guess my question....

Is there any lag between the button-push and the activity on the screen when you play the PS2 on the Toshiba HM DLP?

Absolutely no lag. I tried to notice it but it just isn't there -- the kicking meter in NCAA 2005 for example is entirely responsive

Originally posted by peterofdevon

4) and the million dollar question: is anyone here using the 52 and sitting 6 to 7 foot away (its why I'm selling the plasma---I can see the pixels too easy) and having any issue with screen door. I know its a very close viewing distance.


6-7 feet is a little too close for me, but not because of the screen door. I just see too many rainbows, and fast moving things on the screen tend to distract me. I find it hurts my head to try to focus on the screen at that distance. I think the 46" would be great at that distance!

Originally posted by nickindc03
A tip for you ps2 owners out there: buy the component cables. I initially wasn't going to buy them because so few ps2 games support progressive scan but then I found them online for $7 new. It is amazing how much better games look on the set with through the component hook-up. Even with non-progressive games, the pic is much crisper and the colors much fuller.

No disrespect to anyone, but I cannot believe any self-respecting gamer out there would go w/o component cables for any of their consoles! That is unless of course you are stuck with a TV that doesn't support it!

I have comp on the GC, PS2, and XBOX. =)

Been a while since I've posted anything. In living with my 52hm84 I have noticed a few things (unfortunately the annoyances):

1) I see rainbow all the time in dark scenes. :( I could be sitting too close as that certainly doesn't help the quick eye shifting.
2) I don't know what clay face is.. but I notice often during panning that uniformly colored surfaces become grainy.. is that what people are talking about? Whatever it is.. it looks absolutely terrible. I see it both in analog cable and DVD. Could be my player?

I am playing DVDs through XBox media center.. which is doing it's own upconversion to 720p. There are several different filters XBMC can use doing its conversion, I currently have it set on linear because it looks the best. The upconversion is nice because now I don't have to resize the screen to make things look right--they come across in perfect aspected 720p everytime. Not sure if letting xbox handle things is a bad or good idea and I'm hoping someone has some experience with this that can tell me the best way to set things up.

ALso, what is a good way to calibrate my contrast/brightness/etc settings to know I am getting accurate color and shade reproduction? I have heard some things mentioned but don't remember any of them off the top of my head.

I need to take some pictures of my setup. My cheapo stand ($150) from HH.G goes quite well with the set.

-A

I don't think you'll ever get a good/true upscaling picture from the Xbox as a DVD player. Even if the software you're using claims it does good upscaling, the best you're getting is a software-only upscaler which will probably be marginal at best...and you may actually be better off passing the signal straight to the TV without any processing at the Xbox at all. Also not sure how good the de-interlacer on the Xbox would be...which would also factor into the PQ.

A good upscaling DVD player (like the forthcoming Samsung HD941, and others) would actually have both hardware- (like a Faroudja chip) *and* software-based upscaling to improve the image. The Toshiba probably has a decent hardware/software scaler as well for converting everything to it's native 720p, although TVs typically can't rival a good, dedicated upscaling DVD player for PQ. I'd suggest playing with the different settings on the Xbox and, perhaps, even just passing a standard 480i signal to the TV and letting it do everything.

As far as calibration goes...you can search the forums for threads on what others have used for settings...but every TV is different. Your best bet, short of a professional ISF calibration, is to just go with a DVD calibration tool like Avia or Digital Video Essentials (DVE). You can get both of these online at places like Amazon.com and for about $40 can get all the tools and info you need to self-calibrate your set to a pretty decent picture (plus you'll probably learn some good info along the way). Short of that, you can 'eyeball' it...but that's really subjective and hard to quantify.

...and more pictures of setups are always a good thing! :)

Howdy all,

I have a question for all you folks that own the Toshiba 52HM84 or even the 60+ inch HM84 series Toshiba.

What did you pay and where did you purchase your units? I want to get a Toshiba 52HM84 and would like to get the best price possible.

I appreciate your input.

Thanks,

Knight1811
ps. I messed up and had to post this twice. Sorry for wasting bandwidth.

This last weekend I finally bit the bullet and purchased the 52HM84 from my local BB. BB pricematched goodguys and also let me choose a free HD DVD player since GG was giving away a HD Zenith DVD player free with all HDTV's.

First of all; I cannot believe the quality of picture on this TV with HD Channels. The image quality, the colors, the blacks; you name it. I spent a long time deciding between the Sammy, Panny and the Toshiba.

The Sammy was initially my favorite but as soon as I saw the Panny and Toshiba, I quickly ruled out the Sammy. The HD3 on HLP Sammy's and the weird looking Kirk with HD2+ did not cut it. The softer images on HLP Sammy's was the final nail in the cofin.

Like many folks here, I am not a big fan of the side speakers on Panny and the Toshiba; but then with the widescreen and the side speakers these TV's started to look lot more appealing than the "boxy" Sammy's, atleast to me. To me the Panny and Toshiba looked almost same, and I have never been a big fan of Toshiba. But finally Toshiba won when I asked the BB guy to play Finding Nemo on it. Compared to the Panny (No Panny's with BB) in a different store, the Panny was no more a contender. The Toshiba won by a big margin here; the colors, the blacks you name it. Also, the price is attractive too.

Few points:

1) Never, and I mean never buy the new Toshiba SD-5970 (not the older 5960) DVD player. Its the absolute worst; the reference material looked real crappy on HDMI. My old $60 no-name DVD player (on SVideo) produced WAY better picture. I returned this player and exchanged it with the Sammy HD 841 player. The manufacturing dates on my player is Aug, 2004 and I have yet to find any problem with this player. I suppose, Samsung fixed some issues with this player reported widely. With a DVI-HDMI and a good DVD material and HD 841, the picture looks very good.

2) I purchased the Toshiba Stand that goes with this TV, the ST5284. Although it was expensive, we liked the looks of it and how it blended with the TV. While trying to put it together, I was shocked to see how cheaply built it was. For $350; you can find far better stands than this. I would discourage anyone from buying this stand; its made cheaply, its expensive and not at all sturdy. I returned and got a stand from IKEA for $99; couldn't be more happy.

Summarizing; a happy camper here and another big thumbs-up for the HM Series.

Yeah, the stand is definitely not worth $350 US. I got it thrown in with the TV so I really don't mind. Only problem I had was a minor fit issue but it is sturdy for me. It's worth buying at maybe $150 or so.

Another thing about the stand, it reduces the awkwardness of the sidespeakers and blends in really nicely with the TV. I definitely recommend it. I have seen other people's stands here and although functional, they look pretty brutal considering such an expensive TV. JMHO

Originally posted by kriore
First of all; I cannot believe the quality of picture on this TV with HD Channels. The image quality, the colors, the blacks; you name it. I spent a long time deciding between the Sammy, Panny and the Toshiba. ...But finally Toshiba won when I asked the BB guy to play Finding Nemo on it. Compared to the Panny (No Panny's with BB) in a different store, the Panny was no more a contender. The Toshiba won by a big margin here; the colors, the blacks you name it. Also, the price is attractive too.

I've narrrowed down my choices to the Toshiba and Panasonic also. I've never seen the Panasonic so I don't have an opinion of it. What did you like better about the Toshiba and could you do a side by side comparison? Did any have better black levels than the other? Do they both have the same brightness (with the Toshiba's lamp set to low power)? Any detail information you provide would be helpful. Also, specifically did you like better about Finding Nemo on the Toshiba?

Originally posted by Neo42
Been a while since I've posted anything. In living with my 52hm84 I have noticed a few things (unfortunately the annoyances):

2) I don't know what clay face is.. but I notice often during panning that uniformly colored surfaces become grainy.. is that what people are talking about? Whatever it is.. it looks absolutely terrible. I see it both in analog cable and DVD. Could be my player?

-A

It is clay face effect, or posterization or color breakup. Call it what ever but that's what it is. I have never seen this on the HLN i owned for about 30 days. But it is very visible on the 52HM84.

I played around with the contrast and brightness and now it's not that bad. It usualy is worste in the Gray areas of the picture.


Xbox Media Center on the Xbox set to upscale to 720p or 1080i makes a nice job for PQ. I own both a Xbox and a LG7832 / Zenith DVB318 DVD player and the DVD player's upscaled picture is better then the xbox but not by a big margin.

DLP Type R,
what are the interior dimentions of the the shelves on the toshiba stand? I'm looking at the 46" and it seems as though on the stand for it they are only about 30" wide, which is not enought to fit all componenets (DVD, REceiver, DVR cable box, VCR).

Kevin, I will measure for you tonite but I have found that there is too much space actually and I don't like seeing the back of me wall under the TV :)

Originally posted by xb1032
I've narrrowed down my choices to the Toshiba and Panasonic also. I've never seen the Panasonic so I don't have an opinion of it. What did you like better about the Toshiba and could you do a side by side comparison? Did any have better black levels than the other? Do they both have the same brightness (with the Toshiba's lamp set to low power)? Any detail information you provide would be helpful. Also, specifically did you like better about Finding Nemo on the Toshiba?

xb1032,

I think the Toshiba has better colors and better blacks. At the risk of sounding like a Toshiba salesman or proud-owner-entring-a-pissing-contest, I can say I did not see comparable black levels on any competing DLP's; may be the Kirk, but that was not on my list anyway.

However, I did NOT try to put the lamp on low power and compare it with the Panny. My one week experience tells me that low power is better suited for late night or when there is no ambient light; high power is better for day times or normal times.

For some reason, the Panny did not match the color levels of the Toshiba; especially during those acquarium scenes in Finding Nemo. I spent some time fiddling with the Panny's settings, but it was not the same picture as on the Toshiba.

I see the clay face also! I have tried for days to get rid of it but on dvd it can be pretty bad. I went through the dve disk and made my chages but it still is there on sd, hd, dvd. Any idea's out there.

My personnal finding where that the more contrast and brithness, the less clay faces !!!....

Weird, but it works....

On SD, my contrast is set to 88 and brightness to 43 (low power mode)

If i move the brighness down to 38 or 39, it gets worst, and if i bring the brightness up more then 43, then it washes out the colors.....

I'll post my settings tonight.. maybe it can help.

It's not as bad as it was. And now, during DVD's i almost don't see it, i have to look for it.

You can see it more on SD but less then before too.

One important question from a potential Toshiba DLP buyer to all you current owners - do these HM/HMX units pass through a 1280x720 signal to the screen without performing any conversions? Is there a menu setting for this? From reading the threads, it seems that a 720p DVI signal from a computer is being converted/processed. Does that apply to a good 720p DVD player too? If there's no setting for a pass-through, how does the TV differentiate a 720p signal input between a computer and a DVD player?

yeah someone please confirm if the toshiba can natively display 1280x720 test patterns thru its DVI / HDMI connection..

anyone seen color-banding on this set, like when watching Finding Nemo, you can see disitinct color bands separating the lighter blues in the water from the darker blues.

please use test patterns from this tool to validate results for 1280x720, and not some unscientific "text is sharp" comments..

http://www.mooneyass.com/testpatterns/Phillips%20Pattern%20Gen.zip

Kevin,
My stand is the 52" model.

Here are the dimensions anyway for available shelf space.

Width = 34"
Total Height = 15"
Height of glass shelf (two levels) = mine is set at 8 3/4"

Depth of glass shelf = 13"
Depth of stand base = 14"


Remember, that above dimensions are only for the opening in the middle of the stand for equipment.

Thanks. for the 46" it's probably around 30". for 4 components that's not enough. Looks like I'll grab the Tech Craft 58" (46" tv is 53" wide).
here (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Tech-Craft-DLP--and-Flat-Panel-TV-Stand--PTV582-/sem/rpsm/oid/95081/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do)

Sup guys. Well tonight I just bought the 52HMX84 (the one with black bezel around the screen, and 2 hdmi in the rear). I got a matching stand for it for $260 which I know ain't an awesome deal but it's better than the list price of $300.

Anyway, I know we aren't allowed to discuss anything but MSRP pricing on this forum, so I cannot tell u how much I paid for my HMX, but let's just say, it was WAAAAAAAAAY below MSRP of $4,299. ;)

Just received my 62" Toshiba, but to my dismay, there are no discreets on the remote control, specifically the video inputs and power. I can find power codes, but nothing for the inputs. Toshiba touts discreet codes on their website. Does anyone have the codes or a source to find them? I've already looked through remote central with no luck.

Originally posted by ndahbar
Sup guys. Well tonight I just bought the 52HMX84 (the one with black bezel around the screen, and 2 hdmi in the rear). I got a matching stand for it for $260 which I know ain't an awesome deal but it's better than the list price of $300.

Anyway, I know we aren't allowed to discuss anything but MSRP pricing on this forum, so I cannot tell u how much I paid for my HMX, but let's just say, it was WAAAAAAAAAY below MSRP of $4,299. ;)


Did a retailer actually have the 52HMX84 in stock? I have yet to see one in my area.

Also, has anyone found the 52HM94 or 52HMX94 anywhere yet? I dying to pick one up!

Update.
Lamp arrived last week. Replacement did not help. So, apparently something is
wrong with ballast.
All Toshiba authorized repair shops in Seattle cannot service it, since it is new
model, and they are not authorized to repair it yet. Toshiba said they'll find
someone and call back in two days. Never did. Supposedly next week, one repair
shop will start to service it after all. So, I still have a hope.
On a side note, 2 times, after staying on with blinking lights for few days screen
turned on, but did not come on next day.


Originally posted by dessa
Saga continues.... I've called Toshiba again today. They said they are sending me
replacement bulb. 7-10 business days to arrive. I'll keep this list posted
with the experience :-)

Toshiba's announcement says the MSRP on the 52HMX84 is $3799.99 and the 52HMX94 is $4199.99 USD. Was a little surprised to see the price of $4299 show up for the 52HMX84, unless I am eithe rmissing something obvious and pulling a duh huh attack, or maybe it was a diff model number? And i still cannot find a local retailer who has one ( HMX series ), so am leaning toward the Panny sets instead for now.

You are right jdavis. Toshiba seems to have changed the MSRPs on their website. The May 18th announcement under the "News" section says that the 62HM84 will be $3999.99. The 62HMX84 would be $4299.99. But on their website under the "Products" page, the 62HM84 now has a MSRP of $4499.99, and the 62HMX84 has a MSRP of $4799.99. Yikes! What gives?:confused:

Folks - Two questions for Toshiba owners

1. Is the HMX equivalent to the 62HM94 (vs. 84)? I don't see the HMX as a model.

2. I am considering either the 62HM94 unit or the Mits 725. Did anyone here make a choice of the Toshiba over the Mits, and why?

Thanks!

The 94 series are more expensive, they have more features like cablecard and OTA built-in tuner for Hi-Def. Amongst couple other things I think.

Personally I have no need for those things so I jumped on the HMX, which I think is stellar (best HD2+ set out right now IMHO). Choices are 52 and 62 inch.

I'm getting the 52hm84 delivered on wednesday and I really want to get as close to 1:1 pixel ratio as possible.

I have a radeon 9800 and i'll be using powerstrip to set the resolution.

Is it possible for someone to post their display settings with powerstrip including any changes you may have done in the "advanced timing options" that got you close to 1:1 pixel ratio. It would really help out a lot because it looks a little confusing when I look at all those timing options.

Maybe even take a screenshot if there are too many numbers to write down.

Thank you in advance.

Originally posted by hobbes382
Did a retailer actually have the 52HMX84 in stock? I have yet to see one in my area.

Also, has anyone found the 52HM94 or 52HMX94 anywhere yet? I dying to pick one up!

Yes, Cambridge Soundworks is where I picked it up from, locally. They carry both the HM and the HMX models. Since the price difference was like, nothing, and that the HMX had 2 HDMI instead of 1, and that I liked the black bezel more than the silver, I went for that, no brainer.

It looked FANTASTIC in the store, and any less-than-perfect imagery on the TV was seen on all the other ones (LCD, DLP, XBR Sony, you name it) in the demo room (so it's the signal).

I tried VERY hard to see rainbows, and I did see them, but it was extremely brief and only in the very center. To do it, I had to shake my head like a rabid dog, and dart my eyes all over the place real fast. Tell you what boys: If THAT is what I need to do to see a very momentary image of a rainbow, well then, this "issue" to me is utterly irrelevant and absent.

Can't wait to get it next week. I think I will provide useful input to you guys as I will have the following to use with the 52HMX84:

Denon 1910 player via HDMI (I'll test with 720p, since that's native)
Voom Satellite TV via HDMI
Xbox over component
Gamecube over component
PS2 over component
VHS over S-video (just to compare how it looks ;) )

Originally posted by ndahbar


Can't wait to get it next week. I think I will provide useful input to you guys as I will have the following to use with the 52HMX84:

Denon 1910 player via HDMI (I'll test with 720p, since that's native)
Voom Satellite TV via HDMI
Xbox over component
Gamecube over component
PS2 over component
VHS over S-video (just to compare how it looks ;) )

Hope to have my 52HMX84 this week, so I'm in the market for a new dvd player. I'm looking forward to hearing how the Denon 1910 does. I also have an xbox so give us the word what games shine on the Toshiba.

Originally posted by David Scott
Hope to have my 52HMX84 this week, so I'm in the market for a new dvd player. I'm looking forward to hearing how the Denon 1910 does. I also have an xbox so give us the word what games shine on the Toshiba.

I will asap.

I am optimistic re: 1910, check this out:

http://www.hometheaterblog.com/hometheater/2004/09/denon_dvd1910_r.html

I've ordered a Denon 1910 for my Toshiba 52HM84 from Tweeter and it is suppose to be in this week. I currently have a Toshiba SD-V592 DVD player and I'm going to see which one I like best.

Originally posted by ndahbar
Can't wait to get it next week. I think I will provide useful input to you guys as I will have the following to use with the 52HMX84:

Denon 1910 player via HDMI (I'll test with 720p, since that's native)
Voom Satellite TV via HDMI
Xbox over component
Gamecube over component
PS2 over component
VHS over S-video (just to compare how it looks ;) )

I too eagerly await your impressions of the Denon 1910 paired with the 52HMX84.

I've pretty much decided on the 52HM94 (I want the integrated tuner) and need to upgrade my Sony DVP-S3000, which was kickass when I got it shortly after the debut of DVD, but would now be woefully inadequate with these high-def beauties!

Originally posted by WannaBinHD
You are right jdavis. Toshiba seems to have changed the MSRPs on their website. The May 18th announcement under the "News" section says that the 62HM84 will be $3999.99. The 62HMX84 would be $4299.99. But on their website under the "Products" page, the 62HM84 now has a MSRP of $4499.99, and the 62HMX84 has a MSRP of $4799.99. Yikes! What gives?:confused:
you can get it cheaper than that price in bay area-ca.
62hmx84 willbe like 3799 and 52hmx84 will be 3199
let me know i knw a place where you can get it...