I use the Tivo 3 for ota hd recording and it nicely fills the gap left by Comcast, so all my bases are covered.
JR

I use the Tivo 3 for ota hd recording and it nicely fills the gap left by Comcast, so all my bases are covered.
JR

So you pay Comcast what $75 a month for HDTV and DVR and digital cable to have HD and recording capability, then you pay tivo around $12 a month in order to be able to record CBS OTA. Sounds like you might want to buy a bridge from me in NY. Why would you continue to pay for cable tv and tivo when you could go with Dish or Directv and save money and get more channels and not have to switch to different boxes to get all your channels?

Temporary, ah...long term insanity?

I have an RCA 1394 DVR that I use to record OTA programming when I had Comcrap. But I personally despised having to turn to a different service, or device to record local network television while I was paying so much each month to the cable company and I didnt even get all the channels via paid tv service that I got for free with just an antenna. Once I got Dish and their DVR has OTA tuner built in, and can record and tune via satellite or OTA seemlessly, I swore I would never touch cable again as long as they refuse to carry CBS. To use Comcraps own reasoning, I see no reason to pay for what I should be getting free. In this case Im not going to pay more for cable TV when I can get more OTA for free.

As long as Comcast refuses to pay for the rights to CBS I refuse to pay comcast. Satellite providers don't pay for CBS either but their equipment can tune it in OTA, so I still get all my TV using the equipment I am spending money each month for service. Since Cable companies are not likely to add OTA capabilities to their boxes anytime soon its just plain insanity to pay for cable for less than 100% of the local HD that you get for free.

So if you support Comcast let us know so we can send some nice men to your house with the I-HUG-ME coat.

Well, the KOAT (7.1) digital station is not working again this morning I guess due to the storm. This kind of bothers me. What's going to happen when we switch over to digital only broadcasts in 2009? Are we going to see these kinds of interruptions and we won't have the analog broadcasts to fall back on?

Can anyone recommend a good indoor antenna for use in the ABQ area (SE Heights)? I have been using a non-amplified simple RCA antenna for a while now with good results most of the time. There are times when I am not able to get good reception from all channels at once however (7.1 comes in but 13.1 does not, etc.). Thank you very much for your help!

KOAT 7.1 appears to be back, but can anyone receive KASA 2.1 today?

KOAT 7.1 appears to be back, but can anyone receive KASA 2.1 today?

I didn't look (FOX didn't have anything worthwhile today) but considering last night winds caused power problems on the Crest again, my money is with KASA-DT being off the air since it appears to me KASA-DT doesn't have generator power backup.

Well, the KOAT (7.1) digital station is not working again this morning I guess due to the storm. This kind of bothers me. What's going to happen when we switch over to digital only broadcasts in 2009? Are we going to see these kinds of interruptions and we won't have the analog broadcasts to fall back on?

08' is a critical year; broadcasters will need to upgrade their broadcast equipment in time for the 09' transition for redundancy. Equipment manufactures can only keep up with demand to a point. Rules for translators are not quite finalized, the FCC will allow broadcasters to transition translators to digital after Feb 09' if they apply, or may have some time for analog translators even after the transition. So you might see some low power analog off the Crest even after Feb. 09'. In regards to the metro area full power transmitters on Sandia, most of the broadcasters have been relying on signal high power tube transmitters. Adding another tube for redundancy can be done, quite a few transmitters are ordered this way. KNME has a full power solid state, and near as I know have never been off the air any significant length, other then for tower work. Solid state is getting more energy efficient every year, and there may come a day when it makes more sense to put in a solid state over a power tube for extreme high power applications. Sandia is a pretty extreme environment, there are only a few other transmitter sites in the US at that height with erratic weather. Mount Washington in New Hampshire is the most extreme on the east coast, while I believe Farnsworth peak in Utah is pretty extreme, with less accessibility then Sandia has, considering that the road on Sandia is paved all the way to the top.

Am I the only one who can't pull a KRQE feed OTA this afternoon? Are they still on the fritz after the storm? I get every other channel fine and my antenna has an unobstructed line of sight view to the crest...

Ryan

Am I the only one who can't pull a KRQE feed OTA this afternoon? Are they still on the fritz after the storm? I get every other channel fine and my antenna has an unobstructed line of sight view to the crest...

Ryan

I guess it's just you. I just tried 2, 4, 5, 7, 13, and 19 and got all of them. I couldn't get 7 yesterday and it was spotty this morning but it seems to be fixed now.

No football game this AM instead we get a rerun (not in HD) of "Michael".

Then this afternoon we get the Broncos in beautiful 4:3 SD!

Too much for one day stop already!

No football game this AM instead we get a rerun (not in HD) of "Michael".

Then this afternoon we get the Broncos in beautiful 4:3 SD!

Too much for one day stop already!

The Bronco game was in SD from the Network, there was no HD alternative.

It looks like the local broadcasters are ramping up their Digital Television transition messages.

KOB has been running theirs for awhile (a commercial for a locally owned consumer electronics store disguised as a message about the upcoming DTV transition and to go to that store for more info, which I'm sure they'll gladly sell you HDTV settop box tuners, antennas, and TV's).

I caught KOAT's for the first time tonight (joe diaz proclaiming digital is better than analog and that's why TV is going that way - I'd disagree that's the reason and I can make a case analog is better than digital, but that's beside the point) and sending the viewer to a website to learn more about the DTV transition.

has any other station started running their DTV transition messages? Being about a year out, I'm sure those messages will have to start ramping up so the Joe Q. Public will know what's going on.

Got my no KRQE issue sorted out. It seem the inline amplifier on my antenna was over-amplifying the signal and my TV couldn't decode it. Unplugged the amp and all is well on KASA, KOB, KOAT, and KRQE. Without the amp plugged in I don't get PBS though...

Ryan

Hi,

I am new here so these questions may have been addressed in an earlier post....sorry. I had no luck searching.

Is ch 9.1-9.4 going to turn up the power and when?

I keep seeing "final" lists for digital assignment that are not in agreement. So here is my question.

True or False?
All ABQ stations will be above 13, UHF, after Feb. 2009.

I care because I am looking into investing in a good outdoor antenna to replace the one I have and need to know if I need only UHF or a VHF/UHF combo.

Thanks for reading, your patience, and any helpful feedback.

-Ethan

... ch 9.1-9.4 ... In ABQ, I only receive 9.1, 9.2, 9.3... I do not get any ch 9.4.

The KNME DTV FAQ webpage says:

What's Channel 9?

Channel 9 is a frequency with primary service to Santa Fe. Currently, channel 9 carries three distinct program streams: PBS Kids, PBS You, PBS Schedule X.

http://www.knmetv.org/digital/faqs.php3
Does 9.4 exist? Is it "Reserved", meaning the sub-channel is planned but not currently transmitting.

Sorry, I can not help with your other questions.

Avio

yes i have dish 622/ota i canot get cw in hdtv i used both no hdtv for those why not

Hello Beerzkool,

What will happen after the the analog shutdown date of 2-17-09 will result 2 station moving back to VHF are KOAT-DT on channel 7 instead of digital UHF channel 21 and KRQE-DT on channel 13 instead of digital UHF channel 16.

As for KNMD-DT they are waiting for KCHF-DT to move their digtal transmitter to Sandia Crest mountain.

Since KCHF-DT is on digtial channel 10 and KNMD is on digital channel 9 and KNMD can't upgrade the transment power and if they do they wipe out KCHF-DT's signal.

So they only way is upgrade the transment power when KCHF-DT is on the Sandia Crest then KNMD can upgrade the transment power.

The real hold up is the KCHF-DT is dragging their feet and doing nothing, and I have no idea how long it will take.:rolleyes:

Hope that helps!!!:)

12-3-07

Thank you N5XZS. That is what I needed to know. ;)

yes i have dish 622/ota i canot get cw in hdtv i used both no hdtv for those why not

I have a Dish 722 receiver. You should be able to receive 19.1 OTA. Scan your local channels--Menu-6-9-Scan Locals and your receiver should find it. It will appear as channel 019-01 in your dish guide.

I am not able to get guide info for 019-01 (channel19 has guide info) on my receiver so I set up a manual timer for Smallville which is the only thing I watch on CW, then rename the recording afterwards.

If you have (1) HD service from Dish (required for a leased? VIP 622/722) and (2) locals, aka LIL, then you should have the guide for OTA 2.1 4.1 5.1 5.2 5.3? 7.1 13.1 19.1 50.1 and some more but unfortunately not for 9.x and not needed for 4.2.

This local map down is separate from the HD overlay map down of SD-HD simulcast channels, which I keep off and use the 94xx ones. Just look through the menus--yes, a lot of them and not under its own title but settings or preferences for HD, possibly.
-Ken

I can't believe how far behind Albuquerque is in the HD local news scene.

While we're all waiting for our first local station to step up to the plate with HD news, a Vermont (!) FOX station is getting ready to launch their local HD newscast shortly. Portland, OR KGW-TV is getting ready too with Portland, OR's first HD local newscast, but Portland is a larger DMA than Albuquerque so the Portland news is not as surprising as the Vermont one.

I can't believe how far behind most of New Mexico is that cannot get KRQE HD OTA (No CBSHD)... thanks to LIN... (don't blame the providers}, KOAT, KASA (before being bought) and KOB made deals...

I can't believe how far behind Albuquerque is in the HD local news scene.

While we're all waiting for our first local station to step up to the plate with HD news, a Vermont (!) FOX station is getting ready to launch their local HD newscast shortly. Portland, OR KGW-TV is getting ready too with Portland, OR's first HD local newscast, but Portland is a larger DMA than Albuquerque so the Portland news is not as surprising as the Vermont one.

Maybe if they stopped pumping money into their worthless websites they could use the money to bring HD news to us all. All three news websites SUCK! I can't believe how little actual news content they put on them.

Sorry a little off topic

I can't believe how far behind most of New Mexico is that cannot get Lamborghinis (No cheap super cars)... Thanks to Lambo.... (Don't Blame the Car dealers) Ford, Chevy, and toyota can sell their cars for cheap.

I also can't beleive how far behind most of New Mexico is that most people don't even get the Albuquerque Journal. (No Daily Paper)...Thanks to the Journal, (Don't Blame the Paper Boys) The Tribune and the Internet we're able to make deals...

Such bitter opposition to free market economics. LIN has every right to charge for the carriage of their channel. Stations are doing it all over. It's sad how providers always like to raise rates. Comcast for one isn't afraid to raise them. But they refuse to simply agree to carry CBS-HD and pass the costs on to the customer buried in another Increasing-Cost-Of-Doing-Business rate increase.

We've waited this long, only 439 days left to wait before the providers lose the analog CBS-No Def. Satellite providers will probably step up to carry it finally. Comcast will be forced to carry it thanks to our heroes at the FCC. Until then move to to Rio Rancho where Cable One has made deals with LIN.

There's always other ways to watch other out of market HD locals if one of your affiliates doesn't want to play nice with DishNetwork or DirecTV. ;) All it takes is one phone call, and no I'm not talking about the bootleg hacking either.

Do what you have to do to feed the HDTV the correct "food".

There's always other ways to watch other out of market HD locals if one of your affiliates doesn't want to play nice with DishNetwork or DirecTV. ;) All it takes is one phone call, and no I'm not talking about the bootleg hacking either.

Do what you have to do to feed the HDTV the correct "food".

Do you want to tell us what that is? PM me if you don't want to tell us in the public forum.

... All it takes is one phone call, and no I'm not talking about the bootleg hacking either.

Do what you have to do to feed the HDTV the correct "food".Do you want to tell us what that is? PM me if you don't want to tell us in the public forum.digiblur: This is Babel Talk... I don't know what your trying to say. Please clarify.

Thanks. Avio

check out satelliteguys.us and maybe search for moving

check out satelliteguys.us and maybe search for moving

That's a very good idea!

http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-hd-discussions/113397-help-moving.html
Help With " Moving" - SatelliteGuys.US

FWIW, Comcast has added USAHD and DiscoveryHD today.

wow. but no Scifi HD or CBS-HD yet?

So It's finals week here at UNM. I was looking to flip on KKOB's online stream and couldnt get it to play in order to listen to Limbaugh. I flipped over to KOGO.com the station that Limbaugh is on in San Diego. Their stream used Windows media Player and works great. Also if anyone is interested in Sean Hannity in KKOBs afternoon lineup but want to hear his final hour that kkob drops for Jim Villanucci, check out Sirius Satellite Radio. They have Seans full 3 hours on live everyday on channel 144. You get to hear sean in much clearer sound. No more AM snap hiss. And no more dealing with incompetant station programming. http://www.kogo.com (http://www.kogo.com/cc-common/streaming_new/?refreshed=yes)

Comcast has added HistoryHD now as well.

A Dish rep told me not too long ago that Dish would be getting Sci-Fi HD, but couldn't say when, though he thought it would be shortly after New Year's...

Sure hope It's in time for the final season of Galactica...

rumors going around last week says we could see Scifi HD on Dish by this week. Supposedly it was uplinked last week.

That's great that Comcast is adding more HD. Though they still are persona nongrata in my house until they add cbs-hd. only 14months 10 days from now.

Hope you are not too disappointed if KRQE only gives them 480i in digital; no guarantee of them supplying HD.
JR

I doubt that. Chances are LIN wont want to spend the money to do both. Since FCC regs says Comcast, has to carry all the locals, they have to go to LIN for Digital signal. Since Congress made it LAW that LIN can charge for their digital signal. Then come Feb 17th 2009 Comcast will have no choice but to go to LIN and pay for the digital signal if they wish to stay legal.

Its just like we have to pay taxes. We dont get free postage to mail in our forms, we don't get free internet to file online, we dont get free help from HR block. We have no choice but to pay the fees to comply with the law.

So clearly we can see that comcast will add CBS-HD after feb 2009. Whether they add it before that in the next 434days 13 hours 44 minutes and some odd seconds as I write this is another matter for discussion. I say not on your life. A ham sandwhich has a better chance at surviving a fat lady's plate than CBS-HD has at showing up on comcast early.

Just wondering, do you give E* the same chances of adding KRQE prior to Feb '09? What about after Feb '09?

What regs say Comcast has to carry all locals even if the station wants money to carry it?

Just wondering, do you give E* the same chances of adding KRQE prior to Feb '09? What about after Feb '09?

No. Dish(E* as they were once called, now officially Dish Network) and Directv (D*) are satellite providers and escape much of the the FCC's regulations for cable rules. So there's no really no logical way to discern the satellite carriers future actions. Considering they will probably lose the no def signals of all the local stations then there's a good chance they will. But since satellite boxes have OTA tuners in them there's not much of a demand for it except for subscribers who live outside the immediate viewing areas. sorry folks.

As far as What regs, The one's the FCC passes. Check out http://www.fcc.gov sometime and learn what the government is doing. Look back about 3 months I think when FCC ruled that Cable carriers must still carry all the locals and make them readily available to all subscribers through 2012.

Must carry was designed to ensure that smaller independent local stations, like all of the local religion channels we have here, are carried if that is the route they choose. It does not extend to networks that want a fee for their programming, which in that case, the station and the cable company must reach a retransmission consent agreement.

The 2012 thing you are referring to is that cable operators must continue to provide the locals in analog until that year or provide a cablebox to all subscribers.

If you have something specific that states the cable companies must carry a channel and must pay whatever the station asks for I'd like to see a link.

Here is a link to a fact sheet at the link you gave me. ;) It talks about must carry and retransmission consent.

link (http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/cblbdcst.html)

www.google.com

try looking up the Telecommunications act of 1996.

I'd still like to see something that says a cable company must carry all locals and must pay whatever fee is asked for it. If this is truly the case, I would just like to see it.

I provided a link from a website that you directed me to that clarified things and provided facts. Talking to me like I'm an idiot and telling me to look up random things isn't helping anyone.

Again, if there is something specific, I'd like a direct link.

I do believe Monger is right on this. I used to know this, but my mind is a bit fuzzy.

Im not questioning your intelligence so pardon the false perceptions on your part. You obviously are unwilling to accept what I state without proof. Unfortunately the laws and regulations regarding Digital TV and the transition go back to the 1996 act by congress and countless bits of FCC regulation. Which I dont have the time to dig up for you.

The TCA of 96 said broadcasters have a right to request a carriage fee for their Digital television signals. It also requires Cable operators to get permission to use those signals. This was a counter to previous rules and guidelines which allow cable operators to pull analog signals freely with an antenna at their site without any formal aggreements.

Cable operators are however required to carry all the qualified local broadcast stations in one form or another. When the transition started it was mandatory for the Analog feed to be carried. Few years back 2005 under that act it was optional which signal carried since at the time 2006 was supposed to be the end of the transition.

After 2006 broadcasters had the option to voluntarily turn off their analog spectrum and just transmit digitally. I beleive only one or two stations have actually been so bold to date. But if a station did surrender the cable companies have to carry the new digital feed as part of long standing cable rules.

The Link you posted for the recent extension just sets the FCC rule that they the cable operators have to provide customers with either A. Analog signal or B. Cable Box to receive the digital channel of the local channels until 2012.

This was to protect cable customers from being left without any local channels via cable if they did not have a new digital TV or STB. Must Carry also as you pointed out covers protection of smaller broadcasters multiple dtv channels on cable. not necessarily to protect them from being left off cable altogether. Unless I missed an update that whole multi-channel must carry rules still up in the air.

Lets see where we're at.
1. Congress say's broadcasters can charge for DTV usage. True.
2. Congress say's Analog broadcasts go bye bye feb 17,09. True.
3. FCC says Cable companies must continue to provide local channels in analog or via STB to all customers until 2012. True.

Using comcast for cable companies.

4. LIN wants a carriage Fee from cable companies. TRUE.
5. CableOne pays, Comcast Does not. True.

Therefore,

1. When Feb 17th 2009 comes Lin turns off CBS analog broadcasts. True.
2. Comcast loses channel 13 via their antennas. True.
3. Comcast required by FCC to continue to provide KRQE/CBS to subscribers. True.
4. Comcast has to get permission from LIN to carry their DTV signal.
5. LIN gets carriage fee from comcast for DTV signals, and comcast remains in legal status with all above. True.

I hope this gives you more information to track down and sift through the various laws and FCC regulations for this mess.

"Must carry" means that the cable "must carry" the broadcaster's signal *if* the broadcaster "elects" to have it carried [for free]. However, they are in no way able to force them to pay. 13 is trying to pull a fast one by taking a free service that cable operators provide and actually force them to pay for it. Ain't going to happen and I'm fully with Comcast on not going along with the extortion.

The link I posted actually has nothing to do with the extension at all but states what must-carry is and what a retransmission consent agreement is. It's probably worth a read.

Comcast is not required to provide krqe unless krqe files under must-carry, but at that point is not able to ask for a fee for carriage.

Comcast does not receive channel 13 via antenna and in fact, as part of these negotiations and retransmission consent agreements actually has put fiber in place to get these feeds.

The 2012 thing you keep referring to does not state that all locals must be carried, but that all locals that the cable company carries be offered either via analog or that each customer must have a stb. It is designed to protect the cable subscriber not ensure carriage of the networks.

There's no extortion here. Aside from the same that we all are extorted by insurance companies into paying for Auto insurance because the law says we have to have it.

FCC says cable companies have to carry channels through 2012. Congress says you have to pay broadcaster for signal if they wish payment for signal. LIN is asking for a carriage fee. One of our cable providers already has arrangements to carry KRQE. Eventually when KRQE turns off its analog broadcasts comcast will lose CBS altogether. Until they have carry KRQE to comply with FCC regs. Simple as Dat.

I never said comcast was not within its right to not offer KRQE-DT at the moment. They have everyright to refuse to carry it atm. I hate that comcast says they refuse to pay or to charge its customers to pay for something they can get for free with antenna. But then they charge you for service to receive those very same channels anyways. And right now how much do you comcast subscribers pay each month for their "service" while you still are missing out on as many many channels that you would get for free.

If you have comcast, you get abc nbc fox pbs cw in hd, how much do you pay for just locals only? With an antenna you get all those plus CBS. and the countless other DTV channels. Those other DTV channels that comcast doesnt carry since must carry doesnt yet pertain to subchannels.

Any digital broadcaster can charge for its signals. Any Cable company wishing to carry the digital channel has to pay the requested fee. KRQE would be happy to have their channels on cable. They have deals with CableOne. (which Ive mentioned countless times). Comcast merely refuses to pay for it. Which they will have to eventually, It's the Law.

Some tidbits for thought.
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/csgen.html

SIGNAL CARRIAGE REQUIREMENTS

The 1992 Cable Act established new standards for television broadcast station signal carriage on cable systems. Under these rules, each local commercial television broadcast station was given the option of selecting mandatory carriage ("must-carry") or retransmission consent ("may carry") for each cable system serving the same market as the commercial television station. The market of a television station is established by its Area of Dominant Influence ("ADI"), as defined by Arbitron and/or modified by the Commission. Every county in the country is assigned to an ADI, and those cable systems and television stations in the same ADI are considered to be in the same market. Upon the request of a television station or a cable system, the Commission has the authority to change the ADI to which a station is assigned. As a result of Arbitron abandoning the television research business, the Commission has determined that, effective January 1, 2000, the market of a television station shall be its Designated Market Area ("DMA") as determined by Nielsen Media Research.

Must-Carry/Retransmission Consent Election

Every three years, every local commercial television station has the right to elect either must-carry or retransmission consent. The initial election was made on June 17, 1993, and was effective on October 6, 1993. The next election occurred on October 1, 1996, and was effective January 1, 1997. All subsequent elections will occur every three years (October 1 1999, to be effective January 1, 2000; October 1, 2002, to be effective January 1, 2003; etc.).

Election of Must-Carry Status

Generally, if a local commercial television station elects must-carry status, it is entitled to insist on cable carriage in its local market. Each cable system with more than 12 channels must set aside up to one-third of its channel capacity for must-carry stations. For example, if a cable system has 60 channels, it must set aside 20 of those channels for must-carry stations. If there are 25 stations in the market which elected must-carry, the cable operator may choose 20 to carry. On the other hand, if only 15 stations elected must-carry in the market, the cable system would have to carry all 15 of these stations. A must-carry station has a statutory right to a channel position, usually its over-the-air channel number, or another channel number on which it has historically been carried.

Retransmission Consent Election

A cable system is not permitted to carry a commercial station without the station's consent. Therefore, if the local commercial television station elects retransmission consent, the cable system must obtain that station's consent prior to carrying or transmitting its signal. Except for "superstations," a cable system may not carry the signal of any television broadcast station that is not located in the same market as the cable system without that broadcaster's consent. Superstations are transmitted via satellite, usually nationwide, and the cable system may carry such stations outside their local market without their consent. The negotiations between a television station and a cable system are private agreements which may, but need not, include some form of compensation to the television station such as money, advertising time or additional channel access.

DUAL MUST-CARRY: The FCC Rules
Under the FCC’s report and order, cable operators will be required from Feb. 18, 2009, to Feb. 17, 2012, to:
Carry a local broadcaster’s digital signal in analog and digital formats; or,
Carry the signal only in digital format, provided that all subscribers have the “necessary equipment” (digital set-top boxes) to view the broadcast content.
Carry the high-definition signal of broadcasters in high-definition format.
SOURCE: FCC

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-276576A1.pdf

Would you both please have mercy on the rest of us!

Amen to that, a little more information than I needed.

My apologies. Just felt that it wasnt going to end without more informations. Again sorry everyone else.

DUAL MUST-CARRY: The FCC Rules
Under the FCC’s report and order, cable operators will be required from Feb. 18, 2009, to Feb. 17, 2012, to:
Carry a local broadcaster’s digital signal in analog and digital formats; or,
Carry the signal only in digital format, provided that all subscribers have the “necessary equipment” (digital set-top boxes) to view the broadcast content.
Carry the high-definition signal of broadcasters in high-definition format.
SOURCE: FCC

At which point KRQE won't be able to extort money for their signal *if* they want it to be carried. You're misinterpreting the words here. If KRQE tries to use "must carry" *and* try to extort money, the lawsuits will fly and KRQE will lose. Period. What they're saying is that *assuming* that KRQE wants its signal carried [for free] (invokes "must carry"), Comcast must make it available to all of their customers for free. If KRQE wants to charge, they can't invoke "must carry", they have to invoke "retransmission consent". If Comcast is desperate, they can pay, but they are not obligated in *any* way to pay for KRQE's signal, now or ever. KRQE is invoking "retransmission consent" which means that Comcast can't transmit their signal unless they agree to it and KRQE won't agree if there is no money. That makes Comcast's *obligation* to carry KRQE null and void and they can chose to pay or tell them to kiss off. Monger is right. Bigglare is wrong. Comcast is right. KRQE is wrong.

Can anyone recommend a good indoor antenna for use in the ABQ area (SE Heights)? I have been using a non-amplified simple RCA antenna for a while now with good results most of the time. There are times when I am not able to get good reception from all channels at once however (7.1 comes in but 13.1 does not, etc.). Thank you very much for your help!

Try the "silver sensor", and make sure you purchase where you can return it if you need. It is a very capable, low profile antenna, that lots of people have had good luck with.

They keep bringing it up. And you should use "quotes" when you want to play on words not *Asterisks*.

yes "Must Carry" and "Retransmission consent" allows a broadcaster to either have their signal on cable or negotiate for it to be carried.

Yes KRQE selected Retransmission consent for its broadcast. They want a carriage fee for digital.

Yes Comcast is in its right in saying no to paying for it. No extortion involved. Cable One in Rio Rancho aggreed to carry KRQE.

But come 2009 Comcast will lose all access to CBS. No more analog channel and they have no aggreement in place to carry their Digital channel.

Even in LA when ABC/Disney got into a spat with the cable company, not sure which, the cable company only held out a few days of dropping ABC altogether from cable.

FCC says cable companies have to continue to carry the local broadcasters in analog and digital form. The dual must carry is separate from the Must-carry/retransmission-consent options broadcasters have. Yeah it sounds easy to confuse the two I understand.

Either way you look at it whether its optional to carry CBS or manadatory, how long is comcast going to hold out having lost rights to freely carry KRQE? Right now they can pull it off antenna and not pay anything.

LIN will continue to ask for a carriage fee while comcast subscribers will continue to call to complain and news agencies report the fact that comcast is keeping CBS from all it's subscribers. Thats how it was handled in LA. other broadcasters rallied and covered the black out during their newscasts while ABC continued to broadcast for anyone OTA. KASA Fox is going to be up for renewal soon and LIN could extend their carriage fee requests to cover fox's digital channel also. Now with 2 networks facing carriage fees and removal from cable, who do you think is going to win? But then again how long did Comcast go before they added NBC, CW, and KASY? But then they still had those networks in analog form. Who will win when they dont have a network in any form?

They keep bringing it up. And you should use "quotes" when you want to play on words not *Asterisks*.

I'll decide how I use asterisks vs quotes and the asterisks are for emphasis, not a play on words, thank you.

But come 2009 Comcast will lose all access to CBS. No more analog channel and they have no aggreement in place to carry their Digital channel.

And the great loss here is? KRQE is making a power play. They will lose.

Either way you look at it whether its optional to carry CBS or manadatory, how long is comcast going to hold out having lost rights to freely carry KRQE? Right now they can pull it off antenna and not pay anything.

Forever?

LIN will continue to ask for a carriage fee while comcast subscribers will continue to call to complain and news agencies report the fact that comcast is keeping CBS from all it's subscribers. Thats how it was handled in LA. other broadcasters rallied and covered the black out during their newscasts while ABC continued to broadcast for anyone OTA. KASA Fox is going to be up for renewal soon and LIN could extend their carriage fee requests to cover fox's digital channel also. Now with 2 networks facing carriage fees and removal from cable, who do you think is going to win? But then again how long did Comcast go before they added NBC, CW, and KASY? But then they still had those networks in analog form. Who will win when they dont have a network in any form?

I don't know if anyone wins, but I don't lose as I don't care. If it's a big deal, use an antenna. KRQE is asking asking for something that it doesn't deserve. They are a tiny portion of the spectrum and shrinking. KRQE can't afford to lose over half its viewership. Comcast *can* afford to lose a channel or two out of dozens and dozens. Comcast knows this and will prevail. Once they pay one station, they have to pay them all. Now, what they *could* do is bring in KRQE at a cost and make it a pay channel. People will complain, they just tell them to call KRQE. Broadcasters have had a free ride since inception. They're protected, coddled, stroked. Now they have to deal with harsher realities and they cry and whine. Think of how much they will make off of the 2008 election cycle. Enough to buy a lot of HD gear? You betcha.

Only thing is again cable companies cant charge extra for for local channels. They cant even encrypt them like they do regular cable channels. Thats why we can still get the local HD channels that comcast carries via QAM and just a locals only package.

But you're right, broadcasters are protected. LIN has been justified with this carriage fee request by the other local cable operator. Once they get one carrier to pay they can get the other to pay too.

Comcast knows it can't get away with not having any one of the local networks in any fashion. That's why they carry them all at least in analog. When they lose those with the transition they will eventually have to dance with the devil. Many of Albuquerque residents don't know how to use an antenna anymore. And they will be calling about their missing channel and it's shows.

I never said one side was wrong or other side right. I merely state that business and regulations is going to force their hand but not until 2009. They are not going to pay for something they can get for free they always say. Right now they get krqe for free with antenna like everyone else. Come the cutoff, unlike everyone else they will have to pay to profit off KRQE's copywritten broadcasts. Broadcasters give their signal to the public to watch, but not to charge admission or to rebroadcast. Cable companies rebroadcast via cable, someone elses product that they will have to pay for. This has been the case since 1997 or so when the first HD broadcasts started.

And if you really don't care, you're putting alot of effort into defending comcast and the discussion. It's easy to say use an antenna if you know that you can get hd via an antenna. Most people are clueless about HD service other than they need a comcast box and or satellite service. The media talks about this fact all the time. You call comcast and they won't even acknowledge QAM or they accuse you of trying to steal cable. Unfortunately comcast is on the losing end of this battle. Public opinioin will kill them.

News stories on TV and newspapers about comcast dumping CBS will be all over the place. LIN will simply state we have been offering our HD channel to Comcast for years and they refuse to carry it. Word of CBS's availablility free with antenna or satellite service with an antenna also will spread. Sales of Antennas are up all around the country lately as people rediscover the secret of Free HDTV OTA.

http://www.hometoys.com/homenews.php4?section=view&id=13806828

http://news.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/10381/348938.html

Comcast will lose subscribers over this and they will come to aggreement with LIN eventually. But as I originally said. Not until 2009 at the earliest as it stands now.

Only thing is again cable companies cant charge extra for for local channels. They cant even encrypt them like they do regular cable channels. Thats why we can still get the local HD channels that comcast carries via QAM and just a locals only package.

Good point and that's why LIN can't win. Think about it. If Comcast can't pass on the fee as a per channel option, then they can't recoup the money. If they raise their basic rate and cave, then *every* station will start demanding to be rebroadcast for money.

Comcast knows it can't get away with not having any one of the local networks in any fashion. That's why they carry them all at least in analog. When they lose those with the transition they will eventually have to dance with the devil. Many of Albuquerque residents don't know how to use an antenna anymore. And they will be calling about their missing channel and it's shows.

I think there will be enough HD programming that people won't worry about it. As is, I can't get CBS in HD and won't miss one or two programs I get in HD. If my wife does, I'll put up the antenna.

I never said one side was wrong or other side right.

It's okay, I will. Comcast is right :)

And if you really don't care, you're putting alot of effort into defending comcast and the discussion. It's easy to say use an antenna if you know that you can get hd via an antenna. Most people are clueless about HD service other than they need a comcast box and or satellite service. The media talks about this fact all the time. You call comcast and they won't even acknowledge QAM or they accuse you of trying to steal cable. Unfortunately comcast is on the losing end of this battle. Public opinioin will kill them.

Not likely. I'll bet you $10 they prevail and I hate cable. I don't want Dish paying for KRQE either.

News stories on TV and newspapers about comcast dumping CBS will be all over the place. LIN will simply state we have been offering our HD channel to Comcast for years and they refuse to carry it. Word of CBS's availablility free with antenna or satellite service with an antenna also will spread. Sales of Antennas are up all around the country lately as people rediscover the secret of Free HDTV OTA.

I thought you said people didn't know how to use an antenna ;)

Comcast will lose subscribers over this and they will come to aggreement with LIN eventually. But as I originally said. Not until 2009 at the earliest as it stands now.

Comcast would lose no more than 5-10%. BUT, if Comcast drops KRQE, they'll lose probably 50-60% of their viewers immediately, which means massive revenue loss. Comcast is in the stronger position. Comcast is being defensive. LIN is being greedy. If LIN didn't make massive money from their advertising, they'd have a point. They're just trying to make *more* money by extorting the cable companies. I'd be horrified if they get away with it.

It's okay, I will. Comcast is right :)


I agree. As I said before, larger station groups than Lin do not charge this fee.

You are misconstruing what dual must carry means. Retransmission consent agreements aren't going away and the same rules apply. It just states under must-carry they must carry the channel in both analog and digital, as they aren't going to spend the money to put a box in everyones home.

Alright, I'll stop after this. I'll put in the section from wikipedia(which isn't infallible, I know, but happens to agree with me) on dual must carry as maybe it is better at explaining it than I am.

"Digital must-carry — also called "dual must-carry" — is the requirement that cable companies carry both the analog and digital transmissions of local stations. This has been opposed by numerous television networks, who might be bumped off of digital cable were this to happen, and promoted by TV stations and the National Association of Broadcasters, whom it would benefit by passing their HDTV or multichannel DTV signals through to their cable viewers. In June, 2006 the FCC was poised to pass new digital must-carry rules, but the item was pulled before a vote actually took place, apparently due to insufficient support for the chairman's position.
In September, 2007, the Commission approved a regulation that requires cable systems to carry both analog and digital signals if the cable system uses both types of transmission. Small cable operators were allowed to request a waiver. The regulation will end three years after the digital TV transition date, and applies only to stations not opting for retransmission consent."

Well since everyone seems to aggreeing to each other and arguing different points all together we'll just have drop it. I have to go watch some CBS shows I recorded in HD via my Dish Network DVR that gets CBS HD just fine. If you have comcast come on over to watch the games in HD if you dont have other means.

Yes the Sky is blue.

Clouds are white and sometimes grey, got it.

Fat chicks are better when you're drunk. got it.

Time to move on.


I wrote KASY the other day about their lack of HD. Got a response saying they hope to have HD "Very Soon" Not directv "very soon" but soon but no definate date as of yet. Which is good news I think. Now if we could get KWBQ to get Two and a Half Men in HD we would be set.

Here in the NE heights, I was only getting a 79 signal strength on KRQE on my Dish 722 receiver and outdoor antenna. Now in the last few days it has jumped up to 100 strength! Yay! My question is did they up the wattage, or adjust the antenna, or is it just a fluke? Anyone else notice this?

I remember that before the Superbowl last year, I had great signal strength, then a couple of days before, it dropped so much that I could not pick it up with my indoor antenna any longer, and I ended up dragging my indoor antenna outside and throwing on my porch roof with a 50 foot coax cable out the door in order to get a signal!! Thus, I had to put up my outdoor antenna.

Thanks,

bite

sorry I havent noticed any change out here on the far west side. I have clear line of sight so I get everything from crest without any problems never notice strength.

From Mediaweek:

http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/news/tvstations/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003685068

looks like LIN TV is going to have KASA-TV yanked off Cable One systems on December 15th if a retrans agreement can't be reached.

Go figure LIN TV reached one with Cable One for KRQE-TV.

So CableOne paid up for KRQE and now feels the carriage fee for the retrans for KASA is too much? Shame on them. Shouldnt have paid for the right shoe if you knew the left was going to cost just as much. How long can CableOne hold out without having KASA Fox on their system just as the NFL playoffs come along. I wonder if they will pull the analog and DT kasa off.

Break out those rabbit ears.

Here in the NE heights, I was only getting a 79 signal strength on KRQE on my Dish 722 receiver and outdoor antenna. Now in the last few days it has jumped up to 100 strength! Yay! My question is did they up the wattage, or adjust the antenna, or is it just a fluke? Anyone else notice this?

...

bite

No, the signal is the lowest from KRQE, about 75 or 76 and it hasn't got any higher here in the SE part of town.

Anyword on kasa for our rio rancho friends?

Anyword on kasa for our rio rancho friends?

From Cable One's rio rancho website:

"Updated: December 14, 2007 - 4:00 PM

For immediate release:

LIN TV ( owners of KASA-FOX ) and Cable ONE were able to come to a mutually beneficial agreement to benefit our customers, LIN TV and Cable ONE."

good to hear.

I agree. As I said before, larger station groups than Lin do not charge this fee.

Larger station groups are charging for their signals, just not in direct monetary fees for each station. Instead those that have opted not to charge directly for each station are doing other things. Like Hubbard Broadcasting who owns KOB TV. They were founders of USSB satellite service. As owners they had the rights to start "cable" channel services on USSB. When DirecTV bought USSB out, they gave options to Hubbard to add three networks to DirecTV within a certain time frame. Since then they have launched ReelzChannel and Ovation TV. Since they met their deadline in 2006 to launch these channels, I think they now have extra time for the third network they may develop. Part of that deal includes carrying the local stations they own in HD on satellite. KOAT's owners have a steak in Lifetime channel, so in order to move Lifetime to a standard analog tier on cable, cable companies had to agree to both the local station in HD and Lifetime. With Lifetime no longer a digital tier channel. This was with all Hearst's stations across the country. This also applied to the satellite companies, and it included lunching Life Time Move channel for them. So Hearst gets all their affiliates carried on both cable and satellite in HD, along with moving a cable network off the low viewed digital tier, and launched a new network across the nation, with most of the major providers, thus ensuring a successful and profitable network from the start.

Instead of struggling on only a few cable systems and maybe one satellite service for years hoping they can expand, unsure they could expand to bigger systems. With investors reluctant to be a part of a new network.

Your paying for it, just not directly to the local station, but rather back to some very large corporation that has other ideas in mind. Through your cable bill.

LIN is one of the few broadcast companies that is pure broadcast with no cable outlets, radio or publishing. This means their only means of income and leverage is with their broadcast properties directly. They can't use another media outlet to try and combine with their broadcast side to expand or help other divisions of the company. This is what Viacom and others did a few years back, when CBS Network and Viacom was paired together. They would hold out on their CBS O&O stations retransmission consent in order to get carriage of some cable network they were starting up, or expanding in some way, thus ensuring it would have immediate nationwide carriage on major cable systems like Comcast, Time Warner, COX etc.. Viacom benefited greatly from this, using it's broadcast stations to launch new networks, and moving others off digital tiers that few people were buying.

Any of these kinds of deals can be made between the two parties, they don't have to exchange cash directly, but in some way they will be making money from the deal. It's allowed, and congress changed the law so that stations could charge for their signal. LIN and other broadcasters have it in their legal right to ask for compensation.

Unfortunately the cable industry has not tried to make their hardware able to pick up OTA signals like the satellite companies have, in order to get around the retransmission issues and at least offer their viewers easy access to locals that are not on the system. But in their eyes that would be defeating the hole notion of "cable" TV, and provide an example of alternative ways to get your locals. This is why you never see the cable company offer or give out information on how to get a particular station when they are in disputes, like Cable One was with KASA recently. While the broadcaster often will describe how the viewer may still get their favorite programming with an antenna if the cable system pulls their signal. I find it funny how the broadcaster has to reeducate the viewer on how their parents got TV before them. While at the same time, Cell Phone companies are pushing their video services, like it's some new invention and amazing how you can watch TV anywhere. Meanwhile, broadcasters have been doing this for the better part of 50 years.

Cable is on the losing side of this debate, Comcast won't hold out forever, and will ultimately carry KRQE and any other high value stations that asks for retransmission consent. They just can't afford not too. DirecTV and DishNetwork from the very beginning have always payed for Local into Local service, and if your local cable company holds out for too long, viewers will bail and go over to satellite, particularly those who have been thinking about it for a long time, and now finally have a good reason too. Maybe the wife factor was holding them back, and a satellite dish on the roof was too ugly to bear. But now they want to watch their favorite program, and are missing them.

I can guarantee you that Comcast IS paying for KRQE right now. It's only for their analog service, and does not include the digital service. Comcast has to negotiate for that signal separately. After Feb. 2009, they will have no choice but to negotiate carriage of the digital signal, and the FCC rules stipulate that cable companies can not alter the quality of the HD signal, however they did not address multi-cast's. That may have to be negotiated separately for each multi-cast. But the FCC may change it's mid on that, there are some debates that it should include the full 6MHz bandwidth unadulterated. That whatever the broadcaster chooses to do with those 6MHz, is up to them, and the cable system can't pick and choose from that. It's a strange notion that if a broadcaster does HD. That takes up most of their 6MHz, and cable would need to pass on as is. But if a broadcaster decides to do multi-casts, like most PBS's do, that suddenly the cable company would only pick off the main channel and leave the rest out. Some PBS's switch from 4 multi casts during the day to a HD signal at night, won't that change the makeup of the 6MHz bandwidth? How is a cable company supposed to know when a broadcaster is switching from SD to HD? The schedule may change over the weekend, and not all programs may be in HD during those hours. Weird. Most think this is really a debate about broadcasters coming up with other alternative programming schemes that would compete against cable fair, and the cable companies don't want to subsidies broadcasters attempts at alternative programming.

This is long winded, but you get the idea. No matter what cable says or the broadcasters say, it's about profits, and how they go about getting those profits. The rules have changed and you are seeing fewer and fewer cable company's fighting against retransmission consent. They seem to be scumming to the inevitable idea that they will have to pay. CableOne's spat with KASA was the shortest fight yet that did not involve KASA being pulled from any systems CableOne owns. They came to an agreement right before the deadline. Almost seemed silly that CableOne even said anything about pulling KASA off, with their radio ads and TV commercials they ran. Seems they had little support from the public on this issue. I think the public is tired of hearing about cable "having" to "pull" a broadcaster from their lineup, when it's always a unpopular move. More a negotiating tactic it would seem then trying to get public opinion their way.

I predict Comcast will come to an agreement right before the deadline in 2009, and you will see both a analog version of 13 and a digital version after that date. They just can't afford to have viewers switch to satellite. Ever since Local into Local it's been a slow erosion of their once dominance of better then 70% penetration, now that satellite is approaching 25% . The market just keeps getting divided into smaller and smaller pieces of the pie. All that cable has going for it is Internet and now phone service that they are pushing. Yet you could get Vonage cheaper then their Phone service, and still have a cable modem, works just the same and you can call Europe for the same fixed cost as domestic. It's silly. Five bucks cheaper too..

Very informative post.
Since I live in Ruidoso part of the year and can't get CBS HD any other way (KRQE won't grant a waiver), I wondered about your feeling as to whether Direct TV might be anywhere close to an agreement to carry KRQE. I realize nobody knows for sure.

Nice post Mdamberger.

What I think is going to happen in early 2009:

LIN will make an agreement for a reasonable price with either(or both) satellite co's just before the analog switch-off. They will then basically hold Comcast hostage. Comcast will be forced to pay LIN whatever they're asking or face a mob, and a massive migration to sat.

(I'm assuming the KASA/Comcast agreement is over by then)

I don't really care all that much as I have nothing but digital OTA tuners at the moment. Until I can get the few HDTV channels I want in an ala-carte type pricing scheme I'm not paying anybody, anything. Being force to pay for things like Home & Garden TV, Animal Planet and TBS "stretchy vision" is just outrageous to me.

However, this possible plan of the networks splitting their 6 MhZ of bandwidth really concerns me. It would take at least 3 probably 4 Mbs (KNME's digital SD channel looks like crap) for a decent looking SD signal. This is going to make KRQE, currently the only really good 1080i channel here, a blocky bit-starved mess. I really hope it doesn't come to that.

Skype rules.

Free - computer-to-computer. Otherwise, 2 cents/minute to US/Canada phone number.

sure but then youre still paying for cable or DSL internet.

Directv annouced today that its adding PBS-HD to all its local hd markets in 2008.

comcast has pbs-hd but this is apparently a national feed. it is not knme hd which uses their own programming i think. in any event pbs-hd is a good addition but it is not a mirror of knme.

comcast has pbs-hd but this is apparently a national feed. it is not knme hd which uses their own programming i think. in any event pbs-hd is a good addition but it is not a mirror of knme.

Same with Dish which we've had for a while now. Let us know when we get KRQE (CBS) on HD via satellite.

Same with Dish which we've had for a while now. Let us know when we get KRQE (CBS) on HD via satellite.

At least for those of us in Albuquerque, and as far as those I know, as long as KRQE and other stations are able to be picked up through OTA tuners in our satellite receivers we are happy. Here's to those on comcast, may you get CBS-HD via cable and for those out in boonies, may Dish and Directv pick it up soon.

Directv annouced today that its adding PBS-HD to all its local hd markets in 2008.

Are you sure? The press release and an industry news article I read wasn't clear to me.

I'm not sure if DIRECTV is going to deliver the national PBS-HD channel to their subscribers or add to the LiL HD package the local PBS HD channel (i.e. KNME HD for the Albuquerque LiL package, KRMA and KBDI HD for the Denver LiL package, etc).

Local PBS station HD channels don't always mirror 24/7 the national schedule. For us with KNME, it's mostly the national PBS-HD feed with a few interruptions a month for KNME to show locally inserted HD content (Sandias HD once in a while, and if it was ever available, I'm sure KNME would preempt national PBS-HD to insert the HD version of the geezer music pledge drive specials into the 5.1 channel).

other articles covering this anouncement state that directv will add the national feed as well as each local feed to everyone. It was vague yes, the press release, so we can only wait and see what the final outcome is.

For the past several days I've noticed what looks like an error message on KWBQ-HD, 19-1, "The CW" PSIP header (program title). It reads:

TMS program information for this event not yet available...

After doing a little Googling, I found the following:

Tribune Media Service

Data Products & Services
TMS is the number one supplier of TV and movie information in North America. We offer comprehensive, accurate entertainment information to all types of media and business customers. ...

http://tms.tribune.com/products/j-data.html

The DTV Innovations PSIP Generator contains all of the features of high end PSIP generators, but at an entry level price. The PSIP generator provides a complete PSIP solution that fully meets the FCC mandate requirements for PSIP. ...

Interfaces for Tribune Media Service (TMS), MediaStar, and Crispin automation are included. Automation systems that emulate the TMS, MediaStar and Crispin interface are supported as well. An automation interface allows automatic loading of program information. ...

http://lucidinc.us/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=psip

It looks like KWBQ is trying to install and configure a PSIP Generator using TMS data.

Do you agree, or is this something else?

Avio

"sure but then youre still paying for cable or DSL internet"

Does that mean you're only visiting this forum from your boss's computer? :)

Not receiving since at least last night 19.1 and 50.1. Today add 4.1 and 4.2, came back while writing but weakly. Some may be off for the daytime but 19 and 50, still on analog, were tested late night and now. 19 and 50 gone from main TV, too.

Trying to set up a kitchen HD and hate scanning for channels each time. I cannot be sure the channel add feature is working. PS: It does. Westinghouse 19" has an easy channel veto. There may be problem switching from HDMI to TV (analog or digital) or vv.

Sound was out on new small TV on 5.1 but as it is on main, I assume some sound mode is wrong.
-Ken

We're new to HD. Had D* install an HD DVR+ a couple of weeks back. We noticed on Dec 24 that when we went to watch KASA HD on HD channel 2 that it was frozen on an image from a commercial displaying an 800 number.

Is anyone else seeing this problem? Any idea what happened?

We're new to HD. Had D* install an HD DVR+ a couple of weeks back. We noticed on Dec 24 that when we went to watch KASA HD on HD channel 2 that it was frozen on an image from a commercial displaying an 800 number.

Is anyone else seeing this problem? Any idea what happened?

I'm seeing this in Albuquerque right now. The OTA digital broadcast is just fine but the D* broadcast is frozen. All other locals are operating just fine. I had a recording of KASA from 6:55 pm tonight that was not what it should have been :).

I'm recording Cosmos right now so I'll have to wait a bit to try a reset.

I called D* from work today. They told me they were not aware of any such problem and set me up with a PIN so I could make a callback to advanced tech support tonight. The problem appears to have been fixed; I now have KASA HD, so don't need to call them.

Very informative post.
Since I live in Ruidoso part of the year and can't get CBS HD any other way (KRQE won't grant a waiver), I wondered about your feeling as to whether Direct TV might be anywhere close to an agreement to carry KRQE. I realize nobody knows for sure.

From what I understand both DirecTV and Dish won't pay for local HD's. Dish flatly refused most locals that asked for compensation. Gee I wonder what NY, & LA get for HD compensation? Most affiliates are Owned and Operated by their networks, and I know CBS will be asking for cash on their next round of negotiations. They also have not been carrying any secondary affiliates in the same market that might be split with two affiliates serving two sides of a large geographic market, like NM is.. Too bad.. They are following the letter of the law that mostly benefits them, verses what cable companies are obligated to do.

I'm seeing this in Albuquerque right now. The OTA digital broadcast is just fine but the D* broadcast is frozen. All other locals are operating just fine. I had a recording of KASA from 6:55 pm tonight that was not what it should have been :).

I'm recording Cosmos right now so I'll have to wait a bit to try a reset.

dwtalso - did you ever confirm that KASA was frozen on your HR2x? D* told me it had to be an image stuck on my hard disk, but if that were so I wouldn't be able to rewind and fast forward it. My frozen image was a green background with some sort of forms overlaid on it, and an 800- number in the foreground. Sound familiar?

dwtalso - did you ever confirm that KASA was frozen on your HR2x? D* told me it had to be an image stuck on my hard disk, but if that were so I wouldn't be able to rewind and fast forward it. My frozen image was a green background with some sort of forms overlaid on it, and an 800- number in the foreground. Sound familiar?

It was not your hard disk, I saw it too. Missed House because of it. I have the H20, not hard drive in my receiver.

It was not your hard disk, I saw it too. Missed House because of it. I have the H20, not hard drive in my receiver.

Thanks, LuxoDave. :) Glad to know it wasn't my hardware.

The D* advanced support rep I spoke to assured me that if there had been a malfunction of that order they would have been aware of it and would have posted some sort of message. Yeah, right. Skeleton crew on Christmas Eve and Christmas, I guess.

I called D* from work today. They told me they were not aware of any such problem

I think DISH Network is what's needed. The two times I've had problems with DISH ABQ SD LIL's, they were fixed within 2 hours of when I sent my report to their quality control dept.

on the HD front, is it me or does KRQE seem to cut back on the power during NFL sundays? It seems too many sundays (and last sunday), KRQE-DT was breaking up during the football game. I have an outdoor off-air antenna and am about 5 miles straight as a crow flies from the transmitters. I am beginning to highly doubt atmospherics is the issue as it seems too much of a coincidence that sig level drops during a lot of NFL sundays but doesn't seem to be an issue during the infrequent primetime CBS program that I watch on the DT channel.

Poll: which HD off-air feed are you going to watch the patriots/giants game on? KOB or KRQE? I think I'll watch KOB's feed. It certainly would beat watching NFL Network on my DISH Network.

In case it hasn't come up, most of the "HD" channels direct tv is now offering are just upconverted. They are about on par with Dish now, finally, but they're acting as though they have more channels and don't. I was wondering whether I could switch for Sci-Fi HD as I really dislike Direct, but as it turns out, it's just upcoverted (poorly) and so there's no point. But the deceptive advertising is what's really most disturbing to me.

In case it hasn't come up, most of the "HD" channels direct tv is now offering are just upconverted. They are about on par with Dish now, finally, but they're acting as though they have more channels and don't. I was wondering whether I could switch for Sci-Fi HD as I really dislike Direct, but as it turns out, it's just upcoverted (poorly) and so there's no point. But the deceptive advertising is what's really most disturbing to me.
I don't know where you got your info from... but Sci-FiHD when showing SD material does not stretch like TBS and A&E so the picture, while boxed looks much better than the SD channel. When showing HD, It looks very good...(I have both Dish and DirectHD and can compare...) as for Football, I'm working, But if I was going to watch this game it would be on the NFL Network on DirecTv as it is 1920 x 1080i compared to the 1440 x 1080i on Dish or the 1440 x 1088i KOB provided by dish...

...or the 1440 x 1088i KOB provided by dish... "

Can anyone tell me the resolution of KOB OTA (Ch 4.1) for the game Saturday night?

...or the 1440 x 1088i KOB provided by dish... "

Can anyone tell me the resolution of KOB OTA (Ch 4.1) for the game Saturday night?

NFL Network broadcasts in 1080i. NBC does also so I would assume they would pass the signal as is :).

NFL Network broadcasts in 1080i. NBC does also so I would assume they would pass the signal as is :).

Even though KOBHD uses part of its bandwidth for its weather channel (4.2)?

Even though KOBHD uses part of its bandwidth for its weather channel (4.2)?

According to this site (as of 04/07):

http://www.nmia.com/~roberts/albuquerque-hdtv.html

It looks like 4.1 is broadcasting at 16.37Mbs, and 4.2 at 1.76Mbps, if I'm reading this correctly. Of course, things change over time, but I believe this is quite good. Hope this helps :).

Yes but dish passes KOB thru as 1440 x 1088i, if the could send us KRQE it would be the same...

im in the SE Heights, I can get every channel w/ great reception except KRQE, arent all the transmitters in the same location? Why is 13 so hard to get?

im in the SE Heights, I can get every channel w/ great reception except KRQE, arent all the transmitters in the same location? Why is 13 so hard to get?

I'm also in the SE and I've had problems with 13.1 for years now. There's nothing we can do until they broadcast it with a stronger signal.

I'm also in the SE and I've had problems with 13.1 for years now. There's nothing we can do until they broadcast it with a stronger signal.SE too; near Girard, South of Central. I get 13.1 perfectly on my 2007 Samsung LED DLP RPTV. I use a large RS VHF/UHF/FM roof antenna aimed line-of-sight at the Crest.

Avio

Do you have line of sight to the crest antenna farm? Some people on the east edge of town might not get KRQE because they're blocked.

Do you have line of sight to the crest antenna farm? ... Yes.

Avio

Always heart[burn]warming to drop by and see the Dish Defenders are still at their whines.

Checked my HD channels count, this morning, on D* - at 101 and still rising. Everything as promised. Of course, folks with more Movie Channels subs than I - are receiving more HD movies.

Whining about content stretchovision, uprezzing? Cheer up. When DISH gets the same channels, you'll have the same content. It's the content providers after all. In practice, most of the content providers have been getting it together faster than I expected - and more to come.

In addition, D* subscribers don't have to deal with the E* disease any longer - HD Lite, that is.

So, rock on brothers and sisters. Console each other.

Certainly, I understand the discussion about KOB vs. KRQE for the NFL game, tonight. But, since they're both resending the original from the NFL Network, I'll stick with the Mothership.

Channel 212, NFL Network. No HD-Lite.

Not sure if the signal was stronger tonight during the Pats game but I found KRQE on DTV channel 16. It's a new TV, so I didnt have the settings figured out perfectly, and Im at the very southern end of Juan Tabo using a set of rabbit ears. Game looked beautiful on KOB and KRQE.

... the Pats game ... Game looked beautiful on KOB and KRQE.The OTA simulcast on both KOB and KRQE was nice. When KOB interrupted HD wide screen and showed the game in a tiny Picture-in-Picture for their Powerball Lottery hype, I just switched to KRQE to get back to the full action. :rolleyes:

Avio

Do you have line of sight to the crest antenna farm? Some people on the east edge of town might not get KRQE because they're blocked.

yep, I have line of sight (no western foothills blocking my view of the crest that is about 5 miles as the crow flies).

I still think KRQE is doing something funky like turning down the transmitting power on purpose. It's another NFL sunday today, pictures were breaking up due to marginal signal, just like most NFL sundays this season and some Sundays from last season. I checked again just now with 60 minutes - stronger signal and solid video. 5 miles away with outdoor antenna.

I will now wait until the NFL season is over and see if the sunday NCAA Basketball games break up (if so, probably atmospherics during the day) and if the NCAA games don't break up, I'm thinking KRQE is up to something like maybe trying to get off-air viewers to be fed up with breaking up video and pressure comcast/sat providers to add krqe-dt so the picture won't have any breakup issues.

The OTA simulcast on both KOB and KRQE was nice.

I ended up watching KOB more - something about the less vibrant colors of KRQE (or CBS) bugged me. I don't know for sure but it might be a chroma format setting of the satellite feed the affiliates take (CBS uses 4:2:0 chroma format HD delivery; I don't know for sure what NBC uses since I don't have a receiver to lock onto NBC's current HD satellite signal to affiliates to do the analysis, but it could very well be 4:2:2 chroma format HD).

What's up with OTA KWBQ-DT 19.1 CW in the past approx. 3 days ?

I remember some intermittent break-ups about that long ago; since then I haven't seen them on the air.

EDIT: Never Mind... It's working again; with PSIP program titles but still no program descriptions.

Avio

I am in Los Alamos (White Rock) some 50 miles away as the crow fly's and I have absolutely no problems with the KRQE signal. They are rock solid day in and day out. If your having problems with them its either a LOS problem, an antenna problem or a combination of the two. I am using a Channel Master 4228 on a 20 foot mast with a good UHF Preamp. My signal strength is 100 on a 622.

yep, I have line of sight (no western foothills blocking my view of the crest that is about 5 miles as the crow flies).

I still think KRQE is doing something funky like turning down the transmitting power on purpose. It's another NFL sunday today, pictures were breaking up due to marginal signal, just like most NFL sundays this season and some Sundays from last season. I checked again just now with 60 minutes - stronger signal and solid video. 5 miles away with outdoor antenna.

I will now wait until the NFL season is over and see if the sunday NCAA Basketball games break up (if so, probably atmospherics during the day) and if the NCAA games don't break up, I'm thinking KRQE is up to something like maybe trying to get off-air viewers to be fed up with breaking up video and pressure comcast/sat providers to add krqe-dt so the picture won't have any breakup issues.

I have a consistent minor problem with KRQE OTA--occasional audio dropouts of somewhat less than a second, happening one to a few times per hour.

video is fine, just annoying little audio dropouts.

I have a consistent minor problem with KRQE OTA--occasional audio dropouts of somewhat less than a second, happening one to a few times per hour.

video is fine, just annoying little audio dropouts.

Same here.

Are you running an HD-Tivo? There have been OTA audio issue in the last (firmware related), but right now KRQE is the only station that does so.

Perhaps an e-mail to Frank Liley?

Brian

No, BG, I have a Dish 622 DVR.

mdamberger, does kobr dt pass HD thru? or is it like koct down here and just digital...

Long time coming, but KOBR does not broadcast HD, just SD 24hrs a day on Ch. 8.1. They don't have the ability to pass on KOB's HD signal down south yet. They will need to upgrade their microwave equipment, or come up with another way to get HD programming from ABQ. However, their signal is among the strongest in the area, ERP is 50kW from Comanche Hill, with most everyone else. KRPV has a DT that's also on the air delivered via their satellite service, from the Odessa studios. But it never has audio for some reason. KENW in Portales has a low power DT also on Comanche that has 3.1 SD and 3.2 HD (national PBS feed), that looks pretty good and is easy to pick up. The WAR on PBS looked great, though it was an hour ahead of what KENW was doing on their SD side. KOAT has no DT locally, as you well know. The plan for most appears to wait until the transition before any major upgrades, KOBR will go back to 8-DT, KBIM will go to 10-DT, KEWN will stay on 31-DT locally, along with other digital LP's added to their network. As their Caprock Channel 3 1150ft tower site is just too far away from most areas to be effective as a high power DTV. KOAT's, KOCT will go to a 1 megawatt on 19. KRWB-21 will flash cut to 21-DT and most likely around 164kW ERP. They do around half a megawatt analog now. One interesting note is KENW PBS in Portales has applied for a 1 megawatt site east of Roswell, that seems to have been granted. Question is, will they ever build it? FCC indicates a 1200ft tower. That's it for S.E. NM.

Hey all, I've been looking into replacing the rabbit ears in the rafters with something more reliable. Does anyone know what is going to happen next year when channels go all digital? Like where the channels will be broadcast (frequency wise). I started a thread in the hardware forum, and was told that 7 and 13 will move down the high VHF, and everthing else will be UHF. So I may want to get a small high VHF and UHF antenna. Any comments on this?

BTW, I'm in the Ventana Ranch area. I can tweak the rabbit ears in the garage where I get the main digital channels (2,4,5,7,13,19,50). Unfortunately we have another analog set in the house, and all those channels come in poorly. Any suggestions would be great.

An outdoor ant. would probably be your best bet. I'm using the RS vu90 with excellent results, however I have line of sight with the Crest.
JR

It's back! :rolleyes: ... Watching "Two & a Half Men."

For the past several days I've noticed what looks like an error message on KWBQ-HD, 19-1, "The CW" PSIP header (program title). It reads:

TMS program information for this event not yet available...

After doing a little Googling, I found the following:

Tribune Media Service

Data Products & Services
TMS is the number one supplier of TV and movie information in North America. We offer comprehensive, accurate entertainment information to all types of media and business customers. ...

http://tms.tribune.com/products/j-data.html

The DTV Innovations PSIP Generator contains all of the features of high end PSIP generators, but at an entry level price. The PSIP generator provides a complete PSIP solution that fully meets the FCC mandate requirements for PSIP. ...

Interfaces for Tribune Media Service (TMS), MediaStar, and Crispin automation are included. Automation systems that emulate the TMS, MediaStar and Crispin interface are supported as well. An automation interface allows automatic loading of program information. ...

http://lucidinc.us/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=psip

It looks like KWBQ is trying to install and configure a PSIP Generator using TMS data. ...

Avio

Long time coming, but KOBR does not broadcast HD, just SD 24hrs a day on Ch. 8.1. They don't have the ability to pass on KOB's HD signal down south yet.

I'm surprised KOB doesn't do for DT to Roswell what some stations in Albuquerque do to feed translators - use DIRECTV or DISH Network's Albuquerque LIL as a feeder.

Maybe the "gotcha" is how to do the Roswell studio local insertions into the HD feed coming from Albuquerque.

and to kill another bird with one stone... Edward..enjoy your DIRECTV HD "leadership" - DISH will catch up or exceed DIRECTV as the satellite HD leader in 2008 successful launches pending.

I'm just waiting for DISH to remove the HD premium before I get my HD from satellite. I already get tons of live HD sports and other HD news/entertainment events from the big backyard dish so not having some of the HD channels from DISH is no biggie until Charlie comes to his senses and throws in HD channel equivalents of SD channels for free for those channels a subscriber already gets in SD from their packaging tier.

HD is not a luxury anymore, there are probably starting to be more actively used HD sets than SD sets after this Christmas' numbers come in with those dirt cheap 720P LCD's for the price-conscious households.

I'm surprised KOB doesn't do for DT to Roswell what some stations in Albuquerque do to feed translators - use DIRECTV or DISH Network's Albuquerque LIL as a feeder.

Maybe the "gotcha" is how to do the Roswell studio local insertions into the HD feed coming from Albuquerque.


In a way yes, this is part of the reason why broadcasters are not using the LIL HD feeds. How do you cut in local content, from a satellite feed locally for each translator or studio? Via the studio method is far more possible, but from a translator site. That involves equipment that often won't fit in small buildings. Some sites are packed, with A/C hardly keeping up in summer.

It's easy to take a SD satellite feed from a receiver, all you have to do is combine the video and aural components together into the transmitter, and your good to go. One piece of equipment can do it. But to take a HD feed out of a Dish or DirecTV receiver is another matter. The content is encrypted and can only be decoded inside the sat box, output as component analog video, or DVI/HDMI, and that's also encrypted. One method would be to use a all in one box cross-converter from analog 1080i or 720P, and output that as a SDI. Your going to lose quality converting a analog high def pic. Then you would have to input the SDI feed into a HD encoder and into a microwave link then transmitter. However, you still need to be able to insert local spots and such, and that would mean another HD encoder, and switching equipment etc.. This gets quite tedious, and too expensive for each site, along with the fact you are using another program providers delivery system for your sites. Susceptible to rain fade, high winds and program outages if negotiations don't allow the broadcasters signal to be carried by Dish or DirecTV, like the recent CableOne dispute. Most HD delivery to translator sites will have to be done with off air feed or microwave. But this is far superior to analog feeds of any kind, since at each leg of the path, you can clean up the errors and reconstitute a perfect ATSC stream and pass that into the translator. Doing the same for each site along that path, which can be as far as five translator sites deep at the end. But still a perfect picture.

<snip>...not having some of the HD channels from DISH is no biggie until Charlie comes to his senses and throws in HD channel equivalents of SD channels for free for those channels a subscriber already gets in SD from their packaging tier. What channels do you mean? We do get all the HD feeds of the channels we get in SD at no extra cost. Except for KRQE that is. Of course, we get that OTA.

.....G

I think he meant HD equivalents for free without paying for the separate HD package?

Anybody else experiencing KRQE audio dropouts OTA today? I'm trying to watch the damn playoffs, and the audio keeps cutting in and out, and every now and then the picture pixxelates really badly. My HP PL5060N says the signal strength is about 75%...

I'm so fawking fed up with this stupid CBS issue. I don't care who is right or wrong anymore...I just want it to work. I can't get it with Comcast, I can't get it OTA half the time, Satellite providers don't carry it, and I don't want to watch it in SD.

Ryan

I have comcast. Using basic cable to watch local HD channels. All worked fine till the last week or so. KNME 5.1 (PBS) and KASA HD 2.1 (FOX) both have intermittent problems with reception. Has anyone else been seeing this the past few days or the past week or so? Sometimes they work but if you turn the channel and go back a few minutes later they don't work. It's hit and miss. Comcast support is worthless. Any ideas? I'm running off comcast cable not rabbit ears.:mad:

Also does anyone know if there's an HD channel for CBS? It was 13.1 at one point, but the last time I tried it was a year or more ago.

Anybody else experiencing KRQE audio dropouts OTA today? I'm trying to watch the damn playoffs, and the audio keeps cutting in and out, and every now and then the picture pixxelates really badly. My HP PL5060N says the signal strength is about 75%...

I'm so fawking fed up with this stupid CBS issue. I don't care who is right or wrong anymore...I just want it to work. I can't get it with Comcast, I can't get it OTA half the time, Satellite providers don't carry it, and I don't want to watch it in SD.

RyanI've watched about 3/4 of "60 Minutes" (the news mag) OTA. I have not noticed any audio problems. How do you know your sound dropouts are based on KRQE's transmission and not due to the network feed. Also, maybe what you heard was related to the weather this afternoon. In my part of town, it was kinda dicey. A mile higher on the Crest it could have been a real blaster.

Avio

I have comcast. ... Comcast support is worthless. Any ideas? I'm running off comcast cable not rabbit ears.:mad:

Also does anyone know if there's an HD channel for CBS? It was 13.1 at one point, but the last time I tried it was a year or more ago.Can you put up a roof antenna? Check on AntennaWeb or TVfool. My roof antenna works great! If you can use one, dump Comca$t.

13.1 DTV OTA is alive and well.

Avio

Did anyone else have problems during the San Diego/Tennessee game on 13.1? I was getting artifacting during most of the game, wondering if it was me or the network or KRQE.

I'm getting pixelation and sound dropping OTA with KRQE for tonights football game. This is ridiculous, I can't believe we STILL don't get the HD feed with Comcast.

I had no problems with 13 OTA using the tuner in the Dish 622--not even the usual audio dropouts.

No picture issues here either, but the standard KRQE audio drop outs that I get via my HD-Tivo.

Brian

Just had the usual KRQE audio dropouts on my Dish 722.

Just had the usual KRQE audio dropouts on my Dish 722.

Will that ever been fixed?? I'm sure they are aware if it right?

Will that ever been fixed?? I'm sure they are aware if it right?

Yes, I have received emails from Bill Anderson saying that they are aware of the problem. That's been several months now. I guess it's so complicated that they can't figure out why it's happening?

I was in Phoenix over the weekend and it was nice to see many local TV stations presenting the local new in HD. I wonder why our Albuquerque stations are in making the move to HD. Maybe I shouldn't hold my breath.

Was reading over on Engadget.com that LIN also owns the Fox Affiliate for Greenbay. The article mentioned that LIN is asking only $0.02 per day per digital household for FOX HD. If LIN is only asking for 2 cents a day for their affiliates, it's even more sad that these carriers refuse to play ball with broadcasters. Only $0.60 a month for CBS hd is a pretty cheap deal.

Comcast charges $11.45 a month for basic local cable. Even if all 7 networks charged a similar rate they would only be paying $4.20 and making $7.25 in profit. Thats a far better profit rate than the price gouging oil companies. tsk tsk tsk.

Today, a co-worker, who sometimes asks me about AV, PC and Tech issues, emailed me the following question:

What's your sense about the relative quality these days of bundled internet and TV service through Qwest as compared with Comcast? ... The question is motivated by cost, since Qwest may have a more reasonable fee structure than Comcast.

I responded and copied other co-workers with my opinions. I offered to post his question in this AVS thread to get a broader perspective on these issues.

Please let us know your responses.

Avio
=============
I copy below my response to the Original Poster (OP) and other responses from other co-workers:

My "sense" is:
- Comcast ISP is good, reliable, very fast; high quality.
- Qwest DSL is good, reliable, but not as fast as Comcast; also high quality.
- Comcast cable TV is fair to poor quality; not much HD. They use too much compression which lowers picture quality.
- DirectTV (offered by Qwest) or Dish EchoStar are considered the best for-pay services available in terms of quality. Both have added lots of HD content recently. Both are starting to use MPEG4 compression which is better than older compression schemes.
- OTA (Over-The-Air) Digital TV and HDTV reception via roof antenna in ABQ is excellent. It is free and should not be ignored. 1080i and 720p picture quality and 5.1 DD audio quality in ABQ are often near perfect.

I had Qwest DSL back in 2001/2002 (?) and had nothing but problems with it. My modem would lose internet connection very frequently and technical support wasn't very helpful. My dad currently does the Qwest bundle and is fine with all the services, except for the DSL service. His issues are the same --- frequent loss of internet connection, problems with hooking up wifi, etc. There seems to be many variables with DSL and getting reliable service. I have had in the recent past Comcast High Speed internet and never once had a problem. Speed was always fast and reliable. My dad is switching shortly back to Comcast because of these problems. Just thought I would offer my two cents about this and possibly save you some grief. You get what you pay for in terms of high speed internet.

We currently have Comcast HD and internet and are generally happy with the service, but Comcast seems to be accountable to no one in their price increases.

There is no comparison in terms of quality between comcast and dsl. Comcast sucks, and dsl/qwest really sucks.

For us, after 3 initial weeks of not-getting-it-rit, our Qwest DSL (bundled with DirecTV) has been steady as she goes and rock solid 98.43% of the time --- I think it has to do with where we live & how close to a Qwest station and how many other nearby users we are split between. And understand that we don't do a hugh amount of internet media stuffs. DirecTV on the other hand ----- we've lost signals a number of times & if it's during crucial games, it's just not fun --- and we've had to replace the DirecTV box once after about a year.

I was in Phoenix over the weekend and it was nice to see many local TV stations presenting the local new in HD. I wonder why our Albuquerque stations are in making the move to HD. Maybe I shouldn't hold my breath.

I was in Boston during the World Series (went to game 2) and thought the same thing. Still waiting. Isn't KRQE supposed to be the first?

Slightly off topic - we're building a new store on San Mateo with projection and 1080 LCD panels and three 7.1 systems. You can follow along here on AVS or on the NM AV forum -

http://forum.adnm.com/viewtopic.php?t=134

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=971271

Always heart[burn]warming to drop by and see the Dish Defenders are still at their whines.

Checked my HD channels count, this morning, on D* - at 101 and still rising. Everything as promised. Of course, folks with more Movie Channels subs than I - are receiving more HD movies.

Whining about content stretchovision, uprezzing? Cheer up. When DISH gets the same channels, you'll have the same content. It's the content providers after all. In practice, most of the content providers have been getting it together faster than I expected - and more to come.

In addition, D* subscribers don't have to deal with the E* disease any longer - HD Lite, that is.

So, rock on brothers and sisters. Console each other.

It's a little late, Ed, but when I set up a system for a customer a few days back, I counted the true HD channels he had and it was about 38. I have about 45 or 50 on Dish. Most of the new "HD" channels are actually just SD on an HD channel. The channel may be "HD", but the content isn't.

Other issues with Direct include the lack of discrete on/off codes, poor HDMI jacks (cables often fall out), HDMI connection issues and, last I checked, the inability to offload recorded programs to USB hard drive (I have close to 100 movies stored on a 500GB HD.

I don't know where you got your info from... but Sci-FiHD when showing SD material does not stretch like TBS and A&E so the picture, while boxed looks much better than the SD channel.

It didn't look at all better to me. Same compressed blacks and lack of resolution. If it were true HD, it wouldn't be boxed like that as the original content is almost certainly 16x9. Also, none of the programs on Sci-Fi HD were actually tagged in HD. It could be that they have a better upconverter than you do in your TV, but I can tell you that it didn't look even close to HD to my eyes.

BTW, I don't have anything against Direct (aside from the history of false promises), it's just that when we do installs, we can't make them work as elegantly as the Dish units, especially with macros, so we actually tell customers that we can't guarantee the results with Direct.

I'll check again, but as of a few days ago, I only got about 38 *real* HD channels from my counting.

Oh, wait, here's the real info, it looks like -

http://www.digitalcaffeine.com/hd/

Sci-Fi is definitely upconverted SD as are most of the new "HD" channels.

Sorry guys! :)

What's your sense about the relative quality these days of bundled internet and TV service through Qwest as compared with Comcast? ... The question is motivated by cost, since Qwest may have a more reasonable fee structure than Comcast.I realize that just mentioning Consumer Reports Magazine will make many AVS members cringe :eek: and roll their eyes :rolleyes:, however, I think the following has some validity in answering the OP's question.

The current issue of CR has an article that's right on point:

INTERNET, TV, PHONE: Bundling can cut bills, Consumer Reports, February 2008, pages 33-35.

To summarize, the report is based on the annual survey data of CR subscribers with these combos of services.

* Verizon FiOS was clearly the top rated bundle, but it's not yet available in ABQ (if ever).

* Next, were "highly rated cable companies" offering bundles. These included Cox, Bright House and Wow; not available in ABQ. Comcast was not "highly rated."

* If TV service was paramount, DirecTV was highly rated, along with a so-called hybrid bundle, included Qwest DSL bundled with DirecTV.

* Comcast rated very low in the survey data and analysis in all 3 categories: Internet, TV, Phone.

Of course, our local and personal mileage will vary, but the CR article seems to strongly suggest that the Qwest/DirecTV bundle is the best choice for those in the ABQ area.

Avio

Oh, wait, here's the real info, it looks like -

http://www.digitalcaffeine.com/hd/

Sci-Fi is definitely upconverted SD as are most of the new "HD" channels.

Sorry guys! :)

It depends on the show. 95% of what SciFiHD shows *is* upconverted SD. Fortunately for me, the show I care about (Stargate Atlantis) is actually shot and broadcast in true HD.

USA Network is the same way. Psych is in true HD this season, but most of the other shows are upconverted SD.

Science Channel, Discovery Channel and History Channel actually show more than half of their shows in true HD - and they look awesome! Science and Discovery do a very good job of scaling what SD content they show. Unfortunately, History channel stretches.

John

Well, having the channels allocated is a good step, BUT, i think Direct is being hugely dishonest as they have been for years about HD programming and availability. They constantly over promise and under deliver, whereas Dish just quietly adds channels.

I have both service's(622 and a HR20 and H20) and have to state that your site is wrong on Direct passing SD off as HD... if it is, then Dish is passing overcompressed SD lite off as HD ;)

Well, if you're looking at it on a TV, you might not notice a big difference. On a projection system, it's blatant, I'm not just reading it off a site, I can tell the difference between SD and HD. But I guess that's why they're doing it, most people are just going to believe them that it's HD rather than upconverted SD.

Not sure why this is controversial. Without the HD source, all you have in an HD channel, not HD video. By your reasoning, my NAD DVD player is all HD all the time because it outputs regular DVDs at 1080i. I'm just saying, for those of you thinking you need to switch to Direct because they have more HD channels, well, they do, they just don't have more HD *programming*.

BTW, what is the nature of the allegation of "HD lite" against Dish? I'm confused by that one.

I think it refers to compressed or upconverted video...Which I had always heard was worse on D* and Comcast than E*.

I am watching off of a 43 "1080i Crt and a Mitsubitsi HD 1000U on a 74" Screen... I am Staff at another forum and didn't just fall off the turnip truck... Dish is 1440 x 1080i, (HD Lite) Direct on Mpeg 4 as best we can tell is 1920 x 1080i and the Mpeg 4 Direct HD channels do blow Dish away...sure some are showing upconverts, not all are stretched like A & E ... (Dish net since 01, Direct since 96, C-Band since early 80's) See this (http://www.satelliteguys.us/1183821-post209.html) post for a comparison...

I'm sorry, but if you thought Sci-Fi HD was actually HD, you fell off a turnip truck.

I'll take 1080x1440 over upconverted 480 any time.

It didn't look at all better to me. Same compressed blacks and lack of resolution. If it were true HD, it wouldn't be boxed like that as the original content is almost certainly 16x9. Also, none of the programs on Sci-Fi HD were actually tagged in HD. I have BSG episodes archived from Dish before UHD went Mpeg4 (and were 1920 x 1080i)and they compare with the Same episodes off of ScifiHD... HD is tagged on Sci-Fi HD now It could be that they have a better upconverter than you do in your TV, but I can tell you that it didn't look even close to HD to my eyes.

They are HD! (the truth is out there)

Oh, wait, here's the real info, it looks like -

http://www.digitalcaffeine.com/hd/

Sci-Fi is definitely upconverted SD as are most of the new "HD" channels.

Sorry guys! :)

That website is not talking about HD content, its pupose is to classify how each HD network handles its SD content. Sci Fi and the rest of the HD channels carried by any MSO are real HD channels with real HD (although, I've yet to see any on TBS).

Like CBS, NBC, etc. via your local affiliate, most channels are not full time HD. When they carry SD, different networks handle SD delivery differently. Sci Fi is one of the channels sending everything in its OAR and correctly labels HD/SD programs in their program guide. We want all HD networks to end up with Upconverted SD in Native Aspect Ratio on that website and no "Mislabeled HD".

If you haven't seen any HD on the new channels, you need to check your channel numbers or your system settings/setup.

Oh, wait, here's the real info, it looks like -

http://www.digitalcaffeine.com/hd/

Sci-Fi is definitely upconverted SD as are most of the new "HD" channels.

Sorry guys! :)

Was someone high when they made that website? LOL!

Was someone high when they made that website? LOL!

Very helpful!

That website is not talking about HD content, its pupose is to classify how each HD network handles its SD content. Sci Fi and the rest of the HD channels carried by any MSO are real HD channels with real HD (although, I've yet to see any on TBS).

It says 'Directv HD channels" . I'd say that they are real HD channels with somewhere between no and some HD content at this time. You can put one gallon of water in a 5 gallon bucket, but that doesn't make it 5 gallons of water.

If you haven't seen any HD on the new channels, you need to check your channel numbers or your system settings/setup.

Oh, I saw *some* HD on *some* of the new channels. I don't need to check because it said xxx-HD and the system was set for 1080.

Other than, Stargate Atlantis as I'll take JP's word on that one, if Sci-Fi is HD, it's the worst, cropped, low contrast, low bit rate HD I've ever seen. I'll still put my neck out and say it's just upconverted which has marginal if any benefit to the consumer.

I think this is why both HD-DVD and BD are selling so poorly. I'm really not looking for a fight here, I'm just saying "buyer beware" as I've had a lot of customers (and I'm not a Dish dealer) almost jump because they thought they would get more from Direct when they actually wouldn't. I was thinking of jumping just to get Sci-Fi HD and then I saw what it looked like and my projector does a better job of upconverting. It looks like Dish is going to surpass Directv in a month or so anyway as the turtle often beats the hare, by working hard every day at getting to the finish line.

You need to read up more on how the network/MSO distribution works. All MSOs whether D*, E* or cable are getting the same network HD feeds. If you aren't happy with the amount of HD on a network D* carries, the percentage of HD programming won't increase when E* adds the same channel.

IOW: TNTHD on all MSOs has the exact same amount of HD. The only variable between providers is what networks are carried, and at what quality they are passed through.

Tinman look's outstanding from Sci-Fi and Thanksgiving weekend they had POTC: Dead Mans Chest on and It compared with the POTC: currently running on Starz and The latest one showing on PPV... Btw the Mpeg 2 HD channels will soon be gone as Direct is migrating all subs to mpeg 4(currently working West to East)

Don't be sarcastic (moderator), I understand that, but the point is that Direct is marketing their service as though it has more HD but since most are just upconverted programs over an HD carrier, it is more marketing than reality. There's not much beef in Direct' new marketing thing. if you have to zoom it, it's definitely not hd. If it has bars, it's almost certainly not HD. What's the point of an HD channel that largely carries SD (outside of marketing efforts)?

I'm all for *any* steps toward HD, it's all helpful in the end. I've just seen people actually switching because they thought all these channels were full time, real HD channels. And some were kinda pissed off too. I'm just trying to separate the marketing from the reality. Directv has a long history of overstating what it can, does or will provide. That is hardly disputable. We were supposed to get most of these HD channels and local market stuff two years ago, not a few months ago.

dfergie,

do you know what the file size of a typical two hour movie is on Direct? It seems to be about 6.5GB on Dish +/-, which ain't great, but isn't terrible. It probably should be up more like 10-15GB to get close to HD-DVD/BD resolution and quality.

In one article I looked up, I saw that Direct was doing 1080x1280 and Dish was doing 1080x1440 on at least some HD channels, but can't tell what's happening now. There's not a lot of advantage to doing 1080 by <1920 unless the equipment to keep it in 1920 is really expensive, so I'd be curious to find out *why* they're doing that. Certainly when you talk to Jim Gale at PBS, a lot of it has to do with either the sources or the cost of getting the full rez, full boat gear, especially for lots of different channels at the same time.

I'm certainly not claiming to be all knowing when it comes to sat retransmission, so it would be interesting to know *exactly* what each channel on each provider is doing, though I'm not sure how you'd get all that data.

What I could do, if anyone is interested, is record a 1 hour program from each Dish (HD and corresponding non-HD) channel and give everyone the data storage it requires. I don't know if that can be done with Direct or not.

Also, does anyone know which channel allocations are MPEG2 vs MPEG4?

Look at my xls file, any of the Direct HD channels above 101 are Mpeg 4, the 1280 x 1080i is old info as the Mpeg 2 Direct channels are 1440 and rumored that HDtheater is 1920... don't know how you would get that info from the Directv drive or ESATA drive like are out there with dish (course you can get the dish info with TS reader from the satellite)

Example of unstretched SD Sci-Fi content vs HD...

yes, but isn't that the one HD program? ;)

Don't be sarcastic (moderator), I understand that, but the point is that Direct is marketing their service as though it has more HD but since most are just upconverted programs over an HD carrier, it is more marketing than reality. There's not much beef in Direct' new marketing thing. if you have to zoom it, it's definitely not hd. If it has bars, it's almost certainly not HD. What's the point of an HD channel that largely carries SD (outside of marketing efforts)?

I'm all for *any* steps toward HD, it's all helpful in the end. I've just seen people actually switching because they thought all these channels were full time, real HD channels. And some were kinda pissed off too. I'm just trying to separate the marketing from the reality. Directv has a long history of overstating what it can, does or will provide. That is hardly disputable. We were supposed to get most of these HD channels and local market stuff two years ago, not a few months ago.

Again, you need to read more (not sarcastic).

D* announced their 2007 HD expansion back in 2004. If you expected it two years ago, you were ill-informed.

Bottom line is all we can ask from our providers is to carry the HD channels available. Once they do that, your complaints should be directed to the networks that you feel are not supplying enough HD. But whatever they send, it will get passed through - assuming the channel is carried.

Most of us are delighted that the majority of the new networks are simulcast channels instead of full time HD channels that have limited programming on a loop - and original programming is delayed by 4 - 6 months. When Atlantis, Monk, Psych, Nip/Tuck, etc. new programming airs in SD, it will air at the same time on their HD channel. We don't have to wait months for them to show up on a UHD type channel.

Basically the only thing in SD is reruns, the majority of all dramas on all the cablenets with HD channels is in HD. Even the broadcast nets only have 1-3 hours a day in HD - and those are considered the most HD-rich networks there are.

yes, but isn't that the one HD program? ;)Nope, Sunday they had HD progrmming on all day. SGA is shown at 3 in HD Tues-Friday, Flash Gordon is HD on Fridays. BSG is on in HD at 3 am Saturdays... and Saturday and Sunday have a mix of HD... Btw when a 4x3 show SD is on it is only boxed on the sides...
FXHD shows HD movies around 5 pm our time most everyday, Batman Begins is on at 3pm today.
USAHD has quite a bit of HD, Pysch and Monk are as well as movies and WWE debut's in HD tonight...Ncis is on Wed. Nights 2 HD episodes...
Remember HD is still in it's infancy what is SD on Dish is SD on Direct etc...

D* announced their 2007 HD expansion back in 2004. If you expected it two years ago, you were ill-informed.

What you mean is that they announced the 2005 expansion in 2004 and we're now getting it two years later. :cool:

Bottom line is all we can ask from our providers is to carry the HD channels available. Once they do that, your complaints should be directed to the networks that you feel are not supplying enough HD. But whatever they send, it will get passed through - assuming the channel is carried.

I didn't say anything to the contrary. Only that, while most of Dish's lineup is actual HD all the time, whereas about half the extra Direct channels are more SD than HD. Still don't know why the truth is that controversial.

Most of us are delighted that the majority of the new networks are simulcast channels instead of full time HD channels that have limited programming on a loop - and original programming is delayed by 4 - 6 months. When Atlantis, Monk, Psych, Nip/Tuck, etc. new programming airs in SD, it will air at the same time on their HD channel. We don't have to wait months for them to show up on a UHD type channel.

Mebbe, but I'm not sure what simulcasting upconverted SD does for anyone. i'd rather have HD programs from two years ago. My SD cup runneth over.

Basically the only thing in SD is reruns, the majority of all dramas on all the cablenets with HD channels is in HD. Even the broadcast nets only have 1-3 hours a day in HD - and those are considered the most HD-rich networks there are.

Why would a network that broadcasts 1-3 hours a day be considered more HD rich than any of the national Dish channels? :confused: Or are we talking the same bizarro world where a couple of HD programs a day or week extra means Direct is pounding Dish?

Nope, Sunday they had HD progrmming on all day. SGA is shown at 3 in HD Tues-Friday, Flash Gordon is HD on Fridays. BSG is on in HD at 3 am Saturdays... and Saturday and Sunday have a mix of HD... Btw when a 4x3 show SD is on it is only boxed on the sides...
FXHD shows HD movies around 5 pm our time most everyday, Batman Begins is on at 3pm today.
USAHD has quite a bit of HD, Pysch and Monk are as well as movies and WWE debut's in HD tonight...Ncis is on Wed. Nights 2 HD episodes...
Remember HD is still in it's infancy what is SD on Dish is SD on Direct etc...

Well that's encouraging for those of us who plan on remaining with Dish ;)

I'm remaining with Dish, just as I have with Direct... At least I can watch full resolution HD when I want with Direct...

What you mean is that they announced the 2005 expansion in 2004 and we're now getting it two years later. :cool:

No, I mean exactly what I said. They never announced a 2005 HD expansion. It was always 2007 and coincided with the launch of the 2 new satellites.

I hope you don't advise your customers about HD products.

Why would a network that broadcasts 1-3 hours a day be considered more HD rich than any of the national Dish channels? :confused: Or are we talking the same bizarro world where a couple of HD programs a day or week extra means Direct is pounding Dish?

If you consider Rave or WorldSport more valuable sources for HD than CBS or ABC, you're in your own world.

Why would a network that broadcasts 1-3 hours a day be considered more HD rich than any of the national Dish channels? :confused: Or are we talking the same bizarro world where a couple of HD programs a day or week extra means Direct is pounding Dish?I suppose when dish picks up these channels all will be right with the world ;)

No, I mean exactly what I said. They never announced a 2005 HD expansion. It was always 2007 and coincided with the launch of the 2 new satellites.

Not here in ABQ. But you wouldn't know that since you're where? Do you happen to have a copy of this 2004 announcement of a 2007 expansion? Direct bragged that it would have local HD channels here *plus* it would be adding more channels several years ago and would have it up in running by January of 2006 as I recall and just recently got to it. Pretty sure I can dig into the forums and find some people pretty excited about what just now finally happened.

I hope you don't advise your customers about HD products.

I hope you don't moderate any forums.

If you consider Rave or WorldSport more valuable sources for HD than CBS or ABC, you're in your own world.

And if you think aliens are visiting our planet you're crazy. When did I say this exactly? I don't even watch sports, it's a waste of time.

I suppose when dish picks up these channels all will be right with the world ;)

No, but it will be a tad better ;)

Not here in ABQ. But you wouldn't know that since you're where?

DirecTV is national company and has issued numerous press releases with all the facts - assuming someone is truly interested in what is planned.

If you received different information in Albuquerque, it was likely from some local retailer that was more interested in fanboyism than learning the facts and helping his customers make educated decisions.

Must be in the water.

DirecTV is national company and has issued numerous press releases with all the facts - assuming someone is truly interested in what is planned.

yes, but the denial level you have is prodigious. Direct has been issued so many statements about things that have either not happened or happened well after the planned date, it's ridiculous.

If you received different information in Albuquerque, it was likely from some local retailer that was more interested in fanboyism than learning the facts and helping his customers make educated decisions.

Probably not, but when you hear all your customers telling you about the latest Direct package that never seems to come, you start paying attention.

Must be in the water.

Funny that you came all the way here to drink it. Thanks for stopping by.

FWIW, my advice to customers is this:

If you have Direct and like it, enjoy your service and the momentary ability to gloat over having more HD *capable* (but not necessarily true HD) channels if you feel the need to do so.

If you have Dish and like it, there's no reason to switch to Direct because any advantages would be short-lived and the Dish hardware is unquestionably better.

yes, but the denial level you have is prodigious. Direct has been issued so many statements about things that have either not happened or happened well after the planned date, it's ridiculous.

Do you have a link? I'm still waiting to hear where you were told D*'s expansion was planned for 2005. I assume the fact that you've revised that to vague hyperbole suggests that it isn't forthcoming.


(but not necessarily true HD) channels

Considering you had no clue that SciFi and the others were actually sending HD, I'd be careful advising your customers about D* or E* HD. The whole "not necessarily true HD" is another intentionally misleading, or uneducated statement. If you're talking about HD-Lite, you'd have to include virtually all of E*'s HD channels. If it is something else you've personally come up with to determine "True HD" from "False HD", I'd love to hear your explanation.

Do you have a link? I'm still waiting to hear where you were told D*'s expansion was planned for 2005. I assume the fact that you've revised that to vague hyperbole suggests that it isn't forthcoming.

I do believe this is it - http://news.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/10381/138205.html - the expansion that never happened until recently. i can keep digging, but I do have a new store to finish remodeling and i *thought* this was a forum for Albuquerque folks. I suppose I could go pick fights in any forum I want now, just like a "moderator".

Considering you had no clue that SciFi and the others were actually sending HD, I'd be careful advising your customers about D* or E* HD. The whole "not necessarily true HD" is another intentionally misleading, or uneducated statement.

Not at all. I looked through these channels out of curiosity and most were simply upconverting their standard def programming. A few programs a day or week is hardly anything about which one can crow. I even scanned ahead in the Sci-Fi HD guide and no program for days was labeled HD. So, coming back with a few programs is hardly a vindication and certainly didn't make my short-lived jealousy come back.

If you're talking about HD-Lite, you'd have to include virtually all of E*'s HD channels. If it is something else you've personally come up with to determine "True HD" from "False HD", I'd love to hear your explanation.

Define "HD lite". Anything at 720 or higher is generally considered to be HD. On the other hand, one could easily define any HD signal that comes in at less than 19.39 Mbs is "HD-lite" so that's just about everything everywhere. I still prefer to have "HD-lite" to an upconversion as it will have 3-4 times the resolution.

Talk about fanboys with glass houses. This whole "HD-lite" accusation is about as erudite as "yo'mama!"

There are a ton of people who believed Direct meant 100+ HD channels, not 87 and also those that believe that an "HD channel" means all HD, all the time, not sporadic shows. This has caused thousands of people to sign up for a system that doesn't deliver what they had hoped (just ask Direct's marketing department, they're plenty pleased with themselves). So, yes, anyone dreaming of all HD all the time should, for their own benefit, step back and not make any decisions based on over the top marketing as that is what it is. There's a difference between an "HD channel" and an "HD-capable channel". Direct knows that, but they're desperate for customers. But i guess you don't care how Direct gets its customers or if any of them sign up for a system that doesn't do what they Direct implies it does.

God forbid anyone injects any sanity into the marketing soup.

I do believe this is it - http://news.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/10381/138205.html - the expansion that never happened until recently.

Did you read that announcement? That was for the Spaceway sats and the title said "Local HDTV" which is exactly what they delivered with those sats.

i can keep digging

You can try, but you won't find anything significant.

i *thought* this was a forum for Albuquerque folks. I suppose I could go pick fights in any forum I want now, just like a "moderator".

You're welcome in any thread you want. I generally only go into local threads when we receive numerous complaints or reported posts that someone is posting falsehoods. We don't allow that on AVS. You are free to have your opinions and favorites, but when someone posts something that is false and is trying to mislead AVS members, we make sure it is corrected. The same thing I do when the D* fanboys pop into E* threads.

Anything at 720 or higher is generally considered to be HD. ...........Talk about fanboys with glass houses. This whole "HD-lite" accusation is about as erudite as "yo'mama!"

720 x 10 certainly isn't HD. There are only three accepted formats for HD. 1920x1080p, 1920x1080i, and 1280 x 720p. Anything other than those is not HD. D* started the HD-Lite and was the worst offender until their MPEG4 channels came out. Now they are significantly better, but it is still unknown if they are reducing the resolution with their new channels. If you don't think HD-Lite exists, than you either have never seen full bandwidth HD, or you need to have a professional evaluate your equipment.

There are a ton of people who believed Direct meant 100+ HD channels, not 87 and also those that believe that an "HD channel" means all HD, all the time, not sporadic shows. This has caused thousands of people to sign up for a system that doesn't deliver what they had hoped (just ask Direct's marketing department, they're plenty pleased with themselves). So, yes, anyone dreaming of all HD all the time should, for their own benefit, step back and not make any decisions based on over the top marketing as that is what it is. There's a difference between an "HD channel" and an "HD-capable channel". Direct knows that, but they're desperate for customers. But i guess you don't care how Direct gets its customers or if any of them sign up for a system that doesn't do what they Direct implies it does.

That's called marketing. E* currently claims 76 channels and includes channels that are completely dark with no programming at all for all but a couple hours a week.

That's why people come here to get the facts - because the info they get from ads and uneducated retailers is confusing, or misleading as hell.

I'm done trying to explain something to someone who has no interest in the facts. Any further reported posts of inaccurate information will just be deleted.

92 is 92 - which is where it's at, now. You get what? Latest update I've seen says 70.

You can view a comparison which also includes Comcast and TWC:

http://www.amrax.com/hd.htm

Whining about what content providers send into the system doesn't change what you're stuck with. If you don't get the channels, you won't get the new content as it grows. Should be simple enough for you to understand.

Anyone who went from HD-lite to HD knows exactly what's being discussed. When DISH makes that change, you will see the difference - even if sophistry keeps you from returning to the topic.

I hope the launch of E*'s next bird goes smoothly - as I do D11. You'll probably get the better quality HD you're already paying for. We'll be experiencing yet another expansion

Dish dropped the last 1980 x 1080i channels when they shut down the 148 sat with HBO and SHO on it... (still have that dish active but nothing there for me) and the Mpeg 4 channels are all 1440 x 1080i unless they are uplinked as 1280 x 720p (A & E)...

Did you read that announcement? That was for the Spaceway sats and the title said "Local HDTV" which is exactly what they delivered with those sats.

Right, and we didn't get the HD locals for, what was it guys, a year and half or two years after we were originally told it would happen. I remember it clearly. I remember people telling me the news with excitement. i also remember the dragging feet and customer frustration.

You're welcome in any thread you want. I generally only go into local threads when we receive numerous complaints or reported posts that someone is posting falsehoods. We don't allow that on AVS. You are free to have your opinions and favorites, but when someone posts something that is false and is trying to mislead AVS members, we make sure it is corrected. The same thing I do when the D* fanboys pop into E* threads.

And what exact falsehood? That most of the new programming is upconverted? That most of the new channels are only part time HD at best?

What is your agenda that you want people to believe that Direct has a full line up of full HD channels? What about the fact that Direct even *lied* about the number of channels even if you are willing to accept anything as HD?

720 x 10 certainly isn't HD. There are only three accepted formats for HD. 1920x1080p, 1920x1080i, and 1280 x 720p. Anything other than those is not HD.

You mean ATSC broadcast standard, not high definition. Of course 1080x1440 is high definition, it has more resolution than 720x1280. Since satellite has no requirement to adhere to ATSC standards, HD is more a matter of resolution than exacting standards. Now you're just playing semantics.

D* started the HD-Lite and was the worst offender until their MPEG4 channels came out. Now they are significantly better, but it is still unknown if they are reducing the resolution with their new channels. If you don't think HD-Lite exists, than you either have never seen full bandwidth HD, or you need to have a professional evaluate your equipment.

When did I say that "HD-lite", as it is derogatively called, didn't exist. i said it is quite a bit better than an upscaled SD image.

That's called marketing. E* currently claims 76 channels and includes channels that are completely dark with no programming at all for all but a couple hours a week.

And that's why we tell people that they have about 40 full time HD (or HD-lite if you must) channels, not 76. It's why we tell people that Direct has about the same. Because that's the real truth, not the "we put on two HD programs a week, so its an 'hd channel'" BS.

That's why people come here to get the facts - because the info they get from ads and uneducated retailers is confusing, or misleading as hell.

And that's why I'm speaking up, to let people know that most of these channels are simply HD channels with mostly upconverted SD.

I'm done trying to explain something to someone who has no interest in the facts. Any further reported posts of inaccurate information will just be deleted.

Don't let your fanboyism hit you in the butt.

Let's hope *that* is over. Sorry to the rest of you for having to defend my positions so strongly. I was hoping Direct had somehow gotten everyone to put out tons of HD because that's good for everyone, but in reality, we've got a pretty even match for the first time in awhile and that is also good for everyone.

Dish dropped the last 1980 x 1080i channels when they shut down the 148 sat with HBO and SHO on it... (still have that dish active but nothing there for me) and the Mpeg 4 channels are all 1440 x 1080i unless they are uplinked as 1280 x 720p (A & E)...

I wonder if that's because a lot of HD cameras are 1080x1440?

What I don't understand is why it would be and advantage to do 1440. You'd have to compress, then stretch, line an anamorphic DVD. it would be easier to simply do 1080x1920 and just lower the bit rate *unless* there's some electronic limitations somewhere in the system.

I'm a little disappointed in Dish if that's the case, but on the other hand, that means my image can get even better, in theory. Anyone see any Dish articles that explain why either company would use 4x3 frame sizes to fit a widescreen image?

92 is 92 - which is where it's at, now. You get what? Latest update I've seen says 70.

Well, I'm less interested in "channels" and more interested in hours of HD programming per day/week. It does demonstrate the technical capacity to deliver more HD over the next few months/years, unless they're doing bandwidth sharing to get it.

like i said, i would describe the Dish lineup as about 40, maybe 45 HD channels where it's almost all HD content. Not counting locals. i definitely don't count sports 'slots' as a real channel (or duplicate channels), i kinda wish i could delete them from the menu. I also don't think I count PPV channels, but can't remember.

BTW, for those of you who don't know me personally, I think most of those that do would tell you I'm occasionally opinionated, but not argumentative and rarely ever a dick (or wrong on the facts). However, anyone who wants to come down right now while I'm working on the store and give me what for, please bring some Double Diamond or maybe some Bass and you can call me anything you want. Even better if you bring some straight 2x4s and more liquid nails! :)

dfergie, we'll just have to disagree on what we call an HD channel, but you're always welcome to stop by if you're in town. I do plead guilty to thinking that some of these channels had *no* HD programming at all because I couldn't find them in the guide skipping ahead for quite awhile. Though, in my mind, while a few HD programs is better than none............. Also plead guilty to being more argumentative on line than in person because I get more information out of people that way :D

I'm outta here - send PMs if the BS continues.

For onlookers, I recommend visiting the HDTV Programming forum to get the facts on what both DBS companies are doing vs. claiming - and learning the difference between the "p" and "i" when discussing what is, or is not, HD.

Lets see... premiums alone... Direct has HBOHDW, MAXHDW, StarzEdgeHD, StarzComedyHD, StarzKidsHD, StarzHDW, TMCHD, SHOHDW and SHO2HD... then there is MGMHD, SmithsonianHD and The 101HD all Full time HD channels now... Hey I hate the fact that Dish is behind but I realize the facts... (and now have about 50-50 active equipment...)

Lets see... premiums alone... Direct has HBOHDW, MAXHDW, StarzEdgeHD, StarzComedyHD, StarzKidsHD, StarzHDW, TMCHD, SHOHDW and SHO2HD... then there is MGMHD, SmithsonianHD and The 101HD all Full time HD channels now... Hey I hate the fact that Dish is behind but I realize the facts... (and now have about 50-50 active equipment...)

DF, I'm not saying Dish isn't 'behind' but if they are, this is the first time in at least a couple of years that could be said. By all accounts, it sounds entirely temporary. What I *am* saying is that they're not behind by all that much. Keep in mind that customers have been calling me asking if they should switch to Direct because "they have twice as much HD", then I go through the guides only to find out it's something between a tie and a slight edge, hardly the coup Direct implies in its materials. A lot of people really believed that there was a major paradigm shift rather than Direct finally catching up and maybe even edging ahead for a little bit. Great marketing often makes for poor truth. Would I like to have SGA in HD? Sure. Am I willing to change for one program? Heck no. Especially with Dish having the superior equipment. i don't see you arguing that too much ;)

BTW, doesn't 'Premium" mean 'extra cost"? Not the best argument......

DF, I'm not saying Dish isn't 'behind' but if they are, this is the first time in at least a couple of years that could be said. By all accounts, it sounds entirely temporary. What I *am* saying is that they're not behind by all that much. Keep in mind that customers have been calling me asking if they should switch to Direct because "they have twice as much HD", then I go through the guides only to find out it's something between a tie and a slight edge, hardly the coup Direct implies in its materials. A lot of people really believed that there was a major paradigm shift rather than Direct finally catching up and maybe even edging ahead for a little bit. Great marketing often makes for poor truth. Would I like to have SGA in HD? Sure. Am I willing to change for one program? Heck no. Especially with Dish having the superior equipment. i don't see you arguing that too much ;)

BTW, doesn't 'Premium" mean 'extra cost"? Not the best argument......
No actually costs are about the same ... and because of launch failures it will be awhile before a satellite is launched by Dish, by then Direct will have launched another sat and will be that much more ahead... I cannot get my so called HD locals from Direct as I am out of the spotbeam, but I do get from Dish( I live in SE NM far removed from Albuquerque and Santa Fe, closer to El Paso / Midland/ Odessa /Lubbock Dma's and we don't give a flying frack about Albuquerque news LOL as it is too far away, and Albuquerque news does not cover anything below Albuqureque)... I like the Dish HDD archive system believe me, I have close to a TB archived with dish.. (and about 400 gigs with Direct) but facts are facts... and having the 622 and HR 20... + and - with both receivers, they are about equal... I do not have a stake in either provider ( although I am a dish moderator and admin with Sat guys but I have contacts with Directv as do Staff at Avs...) Look at the sister site of this forum... (directv side ;))

In one article I looked up, I saw that Direct was doing 1080x1280 and Dish was doing 1080x1440 on at least some HD channels
(...)
What I could do, if anyone is interested, is record a 1 hour program from each Dish (HD and corresponding non-HD) channel and give everyone the data storage it requires. I don't know if that can be done with Direct or not.

Also, does anyone know which channel allocations are MPEG2 vs MPEG4?

First of all, DISH has currently one unencrypted HD channel - it's 1080x1440 using H.264 compression.

I can't tell you what DIRECTV uses for resolution (whether it's full resolution or cut down resolution like DISH). I haven't seen any solid proof from anyone - to me it's speculation about being cut down resolution or people say its full resolution because that is what their monitor info screen says and it might or might not be upscaled by the DIRECTV receiver.

If you can have DIRECTV unencrypt some HD channels when I am able to lock onto and check that, we could put the DIRECTV issue to rest. ;)

Recording one hour to compare is a waste of time due to too many variables - the maximum bitrate the particular HD feed on DIRECTV/DISH is allowed, the dynamic-ness of the bitrate at a given second, whether each service has that particular HD channel in MPEG-2 still or has gone to MPEG-4/H.264 for it, etc.

I can pretty much tell you the MPEG-2 vs MPEG-4/H.264 allocations for the feeds from the programmers to DISH, DIRECTV, MSO's, but I don't have a good way to tell from the DBS providers which compression format is used since the signal in those cases needs to be unencrypted for me to get the video stream stats (compression used, video resolution, and such).


and, to dfergie in another post... supposedly DISH is supposed have sats launched in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th qtr 2008 so some bandwidth should be on the way for some more HD channels.

No actually costs are about the same ... and because of launch failures it will be awhile before a satellite is launched by Dish, by then Direct will have launched another sat and will be that much more ahead...

That's an illuminating bit of bias. You already know that Dish will have launch failures, but Direct won't. Good to know.

I cannot get my so called HD locals from Direct as I am out of the spotbeam, but I do get from Dish( I live in SE NM far removed from Albuquerque and Santa Fe, closer to El Paso / Midland/ Odessa /Lubbock Dma's and we don't give a flying frack about Albuquerque news LOL as it is too far away, and Albuquerque news does not cover anything below Albuqureque)...

Well, I heard they were going to add a tumbleweed forecast on channel 4.

I like the Dish HDD archive system believe me, I have close to a TB archived with dish.. (and about 400 gigs with Direct) but facts are facts... and having the 622 and HR 20... + and - with both receivers, they are about equal... I do not have a stake in either provider ( although I am a dish moderator and admin with Sat guys but I have contacts with Directv as do Staff at Avs...) Look at the sister site of this forum... (directv side ;))

Dish doesn't make you choose between IR and RF and many of our customers need both. They also don't have the convenient use of the "enter" button as a discrete power on feature with our remote macros. These two seemingly features alone give Dish a big edge in custom installs, aside from the USB drive. We also have all the codes preloaded and didn't have to go through the 'we make our own', 'no we let other companies to that', 'no, we make our own' 'non tivo, tivo, not tivo' nonsense as the company changed directions and owners. And when we go to the Direct booth, they act like they don't know anything, but when we go to Dish, we always get informed people that know exactly what's going and tell us how they're working on solutions for the install industry such as HD over RG6 and ethernet.

First of all, DISH has currently one unencrypted HD channel - it's 1080x1440 using H.264 compression.

I haven't tried every channel, but my IN82 says 1080 by 1920 on one channel i had time to check, so i'm not sure from where the info comes on this one, but i also can't really disprove that one either, just have to assume someone had the means of figuring it out somehow. if so, it means they're doing some sort of anamorphic squeezing/unsqueezing to get widescreen. I'll go through all these and see if my PJ gives me any useful data here. But that's why I'm saying it doesn't make any sense when the mpeg4 coded is so flexible and powerful. No need to do 1440, even to save space. I'd find it odd, but not out of the ordinary if the 'HD-lite' accusation is based on tht one unencrypted channel though. Which channel is it? As on article says, HD cameras are often 1440, so it could be specific to that channel if that's the case, like an ESPN hd or something that is shot almost entirely on HD cameras.

Recording one hour to compare is a waste of time due to too many variables - the maximum bitrate the particular HD feed on DIRECTV/DISH is allowed, the dynamic-ness of the bitrate at a given second, whether each service has that particular HD channel in MPEG-2 still or has gone to MPEG-4/H.264 for it, etc.

Well, not a total waste as it does give you a very good, indication of the amount of compression as long as you know whether it is mpeg4 or mpeg2. Most of my movies ring in pretty consistently at about 6.xxGB, but there are a few exceptions that are much bigger or much smaller for some reason. i'd have checked, but i didn't realize this was such a touchy subject!

Hey can't we get back to bashing Comcrap over not carrying CBS-HD? At least that pertains to ABQ and not just Fanboi bait eager to bash Dish now that Directv has a small advantage. Years of being supportive of the HD underdog has confused and angered many a Directv sub. They are just lashing out using the same arguements they heard for years about Directv they supported due to contracts.

If you want the best HD possible go buy an HDDVD player for $129 bucks at Sams club and a PS3. Either of those should provide a better picture than the sats.

DAMN YOU DIRTY CABLE COMPANY! I WANT MY CBS-HD! (Im glad I have OTA)

And CBS for being so greedy!!!! ;)

I wonder if that's because a lot of HD cameras are 1080x1440?

What I don't understand is why it would be and advantage to do 1440. You'd have to compress, then stretch, line an anamorphic DVD. it would be easier to simply do 1080x1920 and just lower the bit rate *unless* there's some electronic limitations somewhere in the system.

I'm a little disappointed in Dish if that's the case, but on the other hand, that means my image can get even better, in theory. Anyone see any Dish articles that explain why either company would use 4x3 frame sizes to fit a widescreen image?

I've always thought that the reason for sending out a 1440x1080i pic instead of 1920x1080i is compresibility. The less pixels, the lower bitrate you can get away with w/o noticeable artificating. If it was up to me, most channels would be 1280x720p with just a few at 1920x1080p (ESPN1, HBO1, SHOWTIME1 for ex). Interlacing should never have made it to DTV.

That would certainly be a help with mpeg2, but mpeg4 is about 2-3 times as efficient, so it shouldn't be an issue. That's what would make me think something else was in play or it could just be a myth. A quick scan of all my hd channels shows the 622 is outputting 1080x1920 and it seems odd that Dish would squeeze and then unsqueeze a program as that would take some additional programming vs the easy thing which would be to add some more compression and keep the aspect ratio. mpeg4 is efficient enough to pull of 1080x1920 at rates that would fit on a regular mpeg2 DVD.

1080i exists for only one purpose and that is backwards compatibility with CRTs which hardly exist. i'd certainly like to see everything switch to 1080p as it is no more data intensive and then have the receiver interlace it as needed.

Wow, the last few pages of posts makes me appreciate how few flame wars we have had in this thread.

The whole 'Who has the best HD' fight is just silly. And yet people will fight to justify their choice like an attack on your grandmother. The bottom line is that competition between D* and E* is good for all sat customers. There will be leap-frogging over who has the rights to crow for the next couple of years. This keeps the additions moving faster than otherwise and the inevitable price increases to a minimum. (Strange, D* is echoing E* price increase.) I find it odd that people can be 'loyal' to a company that they are a customer of. If someone comes out with something better, at a better price, I will bail in a second.

I can only comment on my experiences. I have been with D* for 10 years, almost solely because of Sunday Ticket. There were times I have looked at Dish, since I can switch to a ST only package with D*. There has just never been that big a difference between the 2 to justify the relatively minimal effort to switch. When E* was ahead in HD, I knew it would be a short time until D* caught up. When E* gets a few more birds up, then they can pull ahead again.

As far as their HD expansion, for the most part, D* has delivered exactly what they have promised. Maybe not what Swanni or board posters say, but what they have said in press releases. When I read something on a board I look for an official press release from D* on the subject, I will not accept second hand interpretations as fact. (There are some non-HD failures; multi-room viewing, Albuquerque locals were delayed, etc..)

The 'stretchy-vision' and upconverted SD->HD arguments are just silly. If both services carry the channel, then the argument is moot, they both do the same thing. If D* has an additional channel that does this, it's like saying that the ashtray in your second car is full. Quite frankly, it sounds very fan-boy.

Sure, D* has made mistakes, but not enough to make me switch. And E* has not done that much more to convince me to switch. These 2 services are probably identical in 95% of their business lines (Sunday Ticket, MLB, XM and Sirius are example of the other 5%). I hardly think that people that stay with Charlie and Co. are dumb. I can understand being comfortable with what is familiar. I'm glad that both are on relatively equal footing, it means more competition. We all win more than if it were a D* or E* only world.

One thing I do know, it will be hard to ever tolerate cable companies again. Both Dish and DirecTV are better than almost all cable systems. I would love to explore FIOS as an option, but I feel that it is at least a couple of weeks away, up here in Espanola :rolleyes:.

BTW; in fairness, Comcrap isn't alone in the KRQE HD problem. In know D* hasn't reached an agreement and am pretty sure E* hasn't either. (I'm sure I 'll be corrected if I'm wrong.)


The first post in this thread is a pretty good rundown of how similar D* and E* really are. Some pluses, some minuses, but pretty comparable.
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=95242

Doing some research on the 'hd-lite' thing is pretty interesting because there is *incredible* anger and infighting over this one and so much mudslinging, it's hard to get a bead on what's real and what's not.

What i *think* I've learned from all the back and forth is that Dish is now mostly to all 'hd-lite' which uses rectangular brick-like pixel or samples of the signal which drops the data rate by ~25%. Again, there should be a need for this. Others are saying that Direct is also all 'HD-lite', but that the mpeg4 compression has dramatically improved the picture over mpeg2. i've only seen a few people here claim that direct is full 1920.

Still not sure how anyone is determining how something is recorded unless they have some sort of professional test equipment or the info is leaked from an insider. The sat forums are rife with arguments over it, but no one seems to be stating how they are able to determine this as my pretty high-end PJ is receiving 1080x1920. How it gets to be 1920 is unknown. Direct's guy was acting like he knew nothing about it in an interview, but the article said that the resolution gauge was removed so people couldn't see what they were doing. Dish has no such gauge of which i'm aware.

now, some engineer could be showing that, within the available bandwidth, it's better to reduce resolution by 25% and keep the bit rate up as this could stop tiling and motion artifacts. I assume most SD channels are still mpeg2 (as are, i believe, a few redundant hd channels), so if those are deleted they give up a good chunk of the needed space for more HD. it looks like SD is about 1/3rd the data rate of an HD channel from looking at the

Anyone know of any interview or articles by actual industry professionals that discuss this subject without the incredible bomb-throwing going on out there? On some forums, if you even express grudging acceptance of 'hd-lite' you're attacked by the 'true hd or death' crowd as the enemy. I guess we can put that up there with religion and politics......

Wow, the last few pages of posts makes me appreciate how few flame wars we have had in this thread.

The whole 'Who has the best HD' fight is just silly. And yet people will fight to justify their choice like an attack on your grandmother.

yeah, i never expected a back lash or i'd have worded things a little differently. All i meant to say that there was no major shift in who has more/better hd and this is the impression that a lot of the population had gotten from Direct's marketing efforts. obviously people are more connected here than in the real world, but i didn't think it was such a touchy subject. i'm certainly not a fanboy (just a content customer), but as an installer, i have to recommend Dish for a variety of reasons (outlined previously) that have nothing to do with who has the most channels or the best channels at the moment as no one knows how it will change from week to week. i thought i was letting people know something they may not have known, rather than telling them something they already knew, but were a bit defensive about. personally, people can hit me with the 'hd-lite' thing all they want, i just am happy to have anything that resembles hd to my eyes, no matter what the source.

And CBS for being so greedy!!!! ;)

GREEDY? LIN is only asking for 2 cents a day for their HD channels according to an article discussing their Greenbay FOX channel and cable companies. How many pennies do we toss in those little cups at cashregisters a day or decline to take in change. I doubt anyone would turn down 2 cents a day to get any HD channel they wanted.

Once you give in to extortion, you're entirely screwed. Doesn't matter if it's 2¢ or $2 or $200. We're not going to agree on this. You blame Comcast, I blame LIN, whoever they are. KRQE is supported by advertising, they are trying to resell a signal for which they have already been paid.

Once you give in to extortion, you're entirely screwed. Doesn't matter if it's 2¢ or $2 or $200. We're not going to agree on this. You blame Comcast, I blame LIN, whoever they are. KRQE is supported by advertising, they are trying to resell a signal for which they have already been paid.

x eleventybillion! Every other major network has NO problem having their content rebroadcast in HD by Comcast, Dish or Direct. Why is CBS/LIN so special that they deserve some sort of additional payment for their programming?

Comcast could rightfully demand payment for providing KRQE with additional households for which KRQE would charge. Imagine the irony, they extract money from Comcast, then show an extra 50,000 households (or more) and up their advertising rates on bandwidth loaned from us to them.

The other way, Comcast provides them with free access to their viewers (and more income) in return for free programming. Win-win. LIN wants a win-win for them and a lose-lose for Comcast (since they'd have to then negotiate with every station everywhere and then renegotiate every few years for more money). i'd tell them to take a leap as well. The loser would be the consumer in end as cable and satellite fees go up. 2¢ cost to Comcast per household now, but how much in a year or two or three? It would snowball fast and the consumer foots the bill so LIN shareholders can line their pockets. I hope no one is seriously advocating this slippery slope.

So you support broadcasters giving their product free to the cable providers who then turn around and charge residents $15 a month for straight local channels? So comcast connects a cable to my house without permission or paying me to have rights to damage my property, then get free content from local providers and then charge me to use the cable? thats funny.

Albuquerque journal extorts $2.00 from me each week by forcing me to buy the saturday paper for the tv section, then the sunday for the ads. Hollywood studios extort money from me along with AMC by making me buy their popcorn and soda just to watch their movies.

I guess I don't understand the stigma that some people place on the concept of profits and getting paid for a product that you create, especially from people that are going to take what you give them for free and then sell it. Hey if you give me $1 a month I will bring you all the free apartment and house magazines from the rack at Smiths each week. But if you want the whole issue of each you have to pay me another $5.

Once you give in to extortion, you're entirely screwed. Doesn't matter if it's 2¢ or $2 or $200. We're not going to agree on this. You blame Comcast, I blame LIN, whoever they are. KRQE is supported by advertising, they are trying to resell a signal for which they have already been paid.I'm with you on this... LIN does this all over the U.S. ...

Let's break this down.

So you support broadcasters giving their product free to the cable providers who then turn around and charge residents $15 a month for straight local channels?

Well, i don't support cable in general and haven't supported them financially in over 15 years so I don't know what they're charging. However, they do incur costs to provide you with KRQE's signal, FWIW.

So comcast connects a cable to my house without permission or paying me to have rights to damage my property, then get free content from local providers and then charge me to use the cable? thats funny.

???? They can't come onto your property unless you or a previous owner invited them. kinda confused by that statement.

Albuquerque journal extorts $2.00 from me each week by forcing me to buy the saturday paper for the tv section, then the sunday for the ads. Hollywood studios extort money from me along with AMC by making me buy their popcorn and soda just to watch their movies.

And you're free to say you don't want the paper, just as Comcast is free to say it doesn't want KRQE.

I guess I don't understand the stigma that some people place on the concept of profits and getting paid for a product that you create, especially from people that are going to take what you give them for free and then sell it.

Except for local news, KRQE doesn't create product. CBS does. So maybe Comcast should pay CBS, but LIN is just looking for a handout.

Hey if you give me $1 a month I will bring you all the free apartment and house magazines from the rack at Smiths each week. But if you want the whole issue of each you have to pay me another $5.

Huh?

I'm with you on this... LIN does this all over the U.S. ...

See, I'm not all bad, just mostly bad ;)

I recently called D* and signed up. The setup me up for an Install on Friday afternoon. They said they would send me an email confirming my order, and call me the day before the install to narrow down the install time for me.

THEY DID NONE OF THESE THINGS.
- They did not call the day before. I was taking off Friday afternoon for the install, so I wanted to be sure we were still on. So I called D*, and they said the install was scheduled for Friday afternoon, but I would have to call Friday morning to narrow down the time.

- I called on Friday morning. D* Customer Service kept me on hold for 25 minutes while they tried to reach Dispatch. They told me no one was answering, but that they left a message for the person doing the installation to call me with a timeframe. This did not happen.

- BTW, why did I stay on hold for so long. Because D* customer service told me they are not allowed to call someone back, or to call out. Only a Supervisor can do that. WTH???

- So it gets to the end of the day and no one ever came to do the install. I had taken the afternoon off for no reason. @ssholes!!!!

Is this typical D*? I guess it doesn't matter. They've lost my business. The customer service policies are moronic, and the local installation company is horrendous.

I got hold of the local installation company on Saturday. They only seem to answer 1 in 10 calls. At first the guy said I wasn't on the schedule Friday. When I told him the specific time slot, he found I was scheduled, Duh!!! When I asked him why they missed my install, he said " I don't know". When I asked why no one called to tell me there was a problem, he said " I don't know". When I asked who would know, he said " I don't know". The guy was dumber than a box of rocks...

I ended up leaving a voice mail for the manager as no one else was around, but they never called. I'm not wild about Comcast's service, but it beat D*hands down.

So, this Friday, E* will get their shot.

i hesitated to say it because i was already in trouble with Direct fans, but yes, this is how they do business here. Dish guys *will* show up and most likely exactly when they say. We have had many customers go through the exact same thing as you and switch to Dish because of it. We don't know why it is, we just know that it is. We've even warned people about it up front that it could happen and they didn't believe us until it happened.

I am afraid that I too had a horrible time with the local D* install guys. That was 5 years back when I moved in to my current home, but I have to say that the experience described matches my own pretty well.

D* seems to have little or no control over the local installers. Communicating with them is next to impossible.

It is unfortunate because my 1st D* system, purchased myself, went in smoothly with the local installer that was recommended to me by Baillos. They arrived when scheduled and had everything they needed.

But the "Movers" deal the D* offered went terribly.

Being a Tivo zealot, this will most likely be my last D* system. Once they kill all the MPEG2 HD channels, it will be bye-bye D*, and hello Series 3 Tivo.

Of course then, I will have to deal with that other stalwart of customer satisfaction; Comcast!

Brian

Yeah, it was pretty amazing that not even D* Customer Service could get a hold of the local installers. They called several times, at 3 different times of the day. Even a 2nd level supervisor couldn't get hold of anyone at the Installation company.

I'm also amazed that they blew off the appointment, and never even called me to say there was an issue. What kind of @sshole company does that? Is the Install company comprised of 3 drunk guys in a garage?

Of course D* is accountable for this. They hire these guys, and keep hiring them despite reports like mine and your, and others.

I'm glad to hear E* is reliable. I look forward to getting set up on Friday.

Darrell

i hesitated to say it because i was already in trouble with Direct fans, but yes, this is how they do business here. Dish guys *will* show up and most likely exactly when they say. We have had many customers go through the exact same thing as you and switch to Dish because of it. We don't know why it is, we just know that it is. We've even warned people about it up front that it could happen and they didn't believe us until it happened.

Let us know how it goes with E*.

I've been overall very satisfied with them. Their HD DVR is the best I've used. My GF has Comcast and their HD DVR--it is very slow responding, doesn't have a skip forward button for commercials.

Had D* back when--Their service sucked, and they kept promising locals. When Dish beat them to it I jumped. Never looked back.

GREEDY? LIN is only asking for 2 cents a day for their HD channels according to an article discussing their Greenbay FOX channel and cable companies. How many pennies do we toss in those little cups at cashregisters a day or decline to take in change. I doubt anyone would turn down 2 cents a day to get any HD channel they wanted.

Out of curiousity, is that two cents a day per sub? Per sub with a HD box or HD service w/ cablecard?

2 cents per day per digital subscriber. let me find the article.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/18/green-bay-fox-affiliate-refusing-to-give-hd-to-twc/

Heres the link to the article

You can get bad installs from both providers installers... thats why since the C Band days I do all of my own ;) (I'm a SatelliteGuy;))

i tried doing it myself (I rarely even attempt it), but i just couldn't get signal after hours of playing. Dish guy came out on the given day at the given time, replaced the dish, and got me going in about 1/2 hour or an hour, did a great job and really seemed to know his stuff. I can think of at least 2-3 people off hand that had the exact same experience Darrell had and switched to Dish because of it and were really happy with their install experience. Now few of these guys know anything at all about hooking up an audio system and you should always check the install settings such as audio/video outputs (i've seen a lot set up for 480i), but well, if they did, I might be jobless ;)

of course, it could be completely different in any area including western Texas.

Heh, heh, here's another one just fresh today. Direct apparently screwed up one of my customer's system and some wiring, actually killed the component video section of his Fosgate preamp a few weeks back with some sort of electrical or static burst (we replaced the killed preamp with one of the last Fosgate refurb units available, but it had some intermittent problems of an unrelated sort). So Jason is out there now replacing the preamp with an NAD while some 'regional' Direct guy is out there trying to undo all the problems caused by the install and the customer and I are splitting the $2000 price of the NAD since he now has no way of fixing the Fosgate that replaced the killed one (convoluted, but in essence, they blew up his preamp causing him somewhat directly to have to buy a new one).

I wonder if Directv even has a clue, as to how badly the Albuquerque installers are screwing up thier business here. Do you think thay have any idea how many customers they are losing becuase of the piss-poor job the Albuquerque installers are doing?

They not only lose the customers that had the bad experience, but also friends and family of those people. I know if any of my friends mention signing up with Directv, I will give them the ole 3-Stooges slap on the head :eek:, then tell them about my experience.

Darrell

Well, here's hoping tomorrow goes okay or i'm going to feel like an ass! :eek:

I think both Dish and Direct installs come from El Paso here... I buy my dish equipment from a local guy who installs alarms but also install's...

Well, here's hoping tomorrow goes okay or i'm going to feel like an ass! :eek:

John,

If E* screws things up tomorrow, it doesn't make you an ass. It would E* a bunch of @sses (like Directv is here in Abq). If that happens, I guess I will keep Comcast.

I am optimistic that E* will come through...

Darrell

You can get bad installs from both providers installers... thats why since the C Band days I do all of my own ;) (I'm a SatelliteGuy;))

absolutely! My primary system is c-band, my "cable fare" system is DISH Network. When DISH installed the system in oct 2006, the installer had some wussy signal meter when he installed the Dish 500.

I put my good spectrum analyzer on the dish after he left because I thought he might have done it half-way with the wussy meter and I was able to get another 15 points of signal strength! nothing like doing things yourself -- better!

If you have a local DISH installer from the company like I did, I"m sure things will go fine. My installer got the dish in the neighborhood of having a reasonable signal and he did it on a NFL sunday! I'm shocked the scheduler when setting up my install appointment didn't blow off sunday installs due to NFL games and go for Monday when there wasn't the NFL going on.

Well, here's hoping tomorrow goes okay or i'm going to feel like an ass! :eek:

John,

Well, you don't have to feel like an ass. :) E* showed up today, did the install, and didn't break anything.

It was much better than last Friday, where I hung ut all day waiting for D* not to show up.

Darrell

I sure hope our local stations are investing in the equipment that will allow the local scrolls at the bottom of the screen to be displayed WITHOUT the current programming having to be in standard def. It is very annoying and I anticipate a LOT of angry calls to the locals stations if they continue doing it when a program is in high-def. Interesting though, they never do the scrolls during commercials but only during the program. Guess they don't want to distract the viewers when something more important like a commercial needs to be played.

I just sent this to all our 3 local stations (ABC, CBS, NBC).

Do you have any intentions on upgrading your digital channel equipment so you will be able to display your local scrolls WITHOUT having to revert to standard def mode and interrupting the high-def programming? It is very annoying and I anticipate you will be receiving many angry calls if this continues when you have to switch to all digital next year. And why can't you do the scrolls during your commercials. Do you have some agreement with your advertisers that you won't do it so it won't distract from their important commercial messages?

John,

Well, you don't have to feel like an ass. :) E* showed up today, did the install, and didn't break anything.

It was much better than last Friday, where I hung ut all day waiting for D* not to show up.

Darrell

Them's my boys!

I just sent this to all our 3 local stations (ABC, CBS, NBC).

Do you have any intentions on upgrading your digital channel equipment so you will be able to display your local scrolls WITHOUT having to revert to standard def mode and interrupting the high-def programming? It is very annoying and I anticipate you will be receiving many angry calls if this continues when you have to switch to all digital next year. And why can't you do the scrolls during your commercials. Do you have some agreement with your advertisers that you won't do it so it won't distract from their important commercial messages?

i'd tell them to go shove their scrolls entirely!!!

'Warning, we could get snow, being it's winter and all'

They can't afford to upgrade their equipment. Comcast isn't paying carriage fees for any of the channels. CableOne's agreements aren't making them enough money.

BS! These guys are making $millions every year and buying and selling new stations all the time. They're just making the most they can with what they have vs trying to make things better for the viewers. People complain about 'greedy' oil companies, but they're no worse than TV station owners. They've shown they won't do anything they're not forced to do *despite* having the money to do it. How much is being spend on TV stations because of the 2008 election already? More than enough to do a few HD upgrades!

Pobre LIN:

In June 1999, LIN acquired WOOD-TV in Grand Rapids, Michigan, a station to which it had been providing consulting services for a number of years.
In August, LIN helped finance the establishment of Banks Broadcasting, a minority-owned television broadcast company in which it holds a 50% interest. Today, Banks owns the CW Television Network affiliate KNIN-TV in Boise, Idaho.
LIN purchased WAPA-TV in San Juan, Puerto Rico in October. In April 2000, LIN acquired WLFI-TV, serving Lafayette, Indiana in exchange for 66% of its station WAND-TV in Decatur, Illinois. LIN continued to provide management oversight for WAND for several years after the swap was completed.
LIN purchased WWLP-TV in Springfield, Massachusetts in 2000. In 2001, LIN acquired WJPX and two satellite facilities in Puerto Rico, and WNLO-TV in Buffalo.
The company exercised and closed on options to purchase WOTV-TV in Battle Creek, Michigan and WVBT-TV in Norfolk, Virginia, both stations that it had already managed, in January 2002.
In February, LIN agreed to acquire seven stations in six markets from STC Broadcasting. The transaction of the stations was completed in May. Also in May, LIN TV Corp. completed the issuance of 19.55 million shares of Class A Common Stock through its Initial Public Offering on the New York Stock Exchange.
In December 2002, LIN TV announced the sale of two television stations in Abilene and San Angelo, Texas. This was followed in January 2004 by the sale of a station in Flint, Michigan.
In late August 2005, LIN purchased several stations from Emmis Communications, the stations purchased were WALA and WBPG in Mobile, Alabama, WTHI-TV in Terre Haute, Indiana, KRQE in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and WLUK in Green Bay, Wisconsin. In July 2006, LIN announced the planned purchase a second station in New Mexico, KASA-TV, from Raycom Media.
In May, 2006, LIN TV announced the sale of Puerto Rico stations WAPA-TV and WJPX to InterMedia Partners, L.P. for $130 million.[2]


Sounds like a company that's really hurting because of 2¢ a day.......

Pobre LIN: ... Sounds like a company that's really hurting because of 2¢ a day.......To supplement your comments:

LIN TV Corporation is an American holding company that operates 31 television stations.

History
LIN TV's roots trace back to the founding of its former parent, LIN Broadcasting Corporation, in the mid 1960s. LIN Broadcasting was engaged in radio, television, direct marketing, information and learning, music publishing, and record labels. LIN takes its initials from three major cities where it originally owned radio stations: Louisville, Indianapolis and Nashville (all located on Interstate 65). ... [much more]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LIN_TV

Avio

Nothing wrong with making money buying and selling stations. How many cable companies has comcast driven out or bought out. It's all business. Maybe I should have put the tags around my previous post.

I support LIN's charging for the products it produces and owns, just as I support Comcast's decision not to pay. I just don't want to hear about how much money LIN wants for their stations when comcast charges subscribers $10 to $15 dollars for what they themselves get for free. Then uses the same argument for themselves in support of their decision not to pay.

Face it we live in New Mexico, it's not exactly on the technology forefront, don't hold your breath for local HD it's not likely to arrive anytime soon. Whether its LIN with KRQE or KASA or any of the other networks, none of them feel the profitability in going HD for local news. Perhaps KRQE will be the first with CBS's pushing all its O&O stations to HD some of their afiliates will follow. We can't even get televised sports of our many minor league sports teams. We would be better off getting HD camcorders and YouTube our own videos.

Nothing wrong with making money buying and selling stations. How many cable companies has comcast driven out or bought out. It's all business. Maybe I should have put the tags around my previous post.

Actually, there's something plenty wrong with it. Station ownership (lease, really) is a trust placed on a supposedly local group of people who are supposed to do everything they do to the benefit of the local citizenry. This was undone by a lax FCC in combination with massive lobbying efforts by big corporations who thought they could make more money. Buying and selling as LIN does was entirely illegal. It's still immoral.

"Buying and selling as LIN does was entirely illegal. It's still immoral."

John:

Did you mean to say "legal"?

it was illegal not that many years ago, then the barriers to that were brought down and the term "to serve in the public interest" became meaningless. When I was younger, the stations had to *ask* people to support them in their quest to renew their license. Now, people don't matter at all. Just money. Even FCC approval to sell a license used to be a serious possible issue, now it's a rubber stamp.

it was illegal not that many years ago, then the barriers to that were brought down and the term "to serve in the public interest" became meaningless. When I was younger, the stations had to *ask* people to support them in their quest to renew their license. Now, people don't matter at all. Just money. Even FCC approval to sell a license used to be a serious possible issue, now it's a rubber stamp.John: If I'm reading your comments correctly, you are saying that the actual statutes and regulations have not changed. What has changed is the FCC's enforcement, policy and implementation of those same laws. Is this a correct interpretation of your post?

Avio

It's both, really. lobbyists successfully got legal changes to favor more ownership and strict policing of 'public interest' and the parts that weren't changed have simply been dropped. i've forgotten more than i remember about the FCC law, but i did study it in college. it was already being shredded back then, much to the alarm of some of my professors.

It's both, really. lobbyists successfully got legal changes to favor more ownership and strict policing of 'public interest' and the parts that weren't changed have simply been dropped. i've forgotten more than i remember about the FCC law, but i did study it in college. it was already being shredded back then, much to the alarm of some of my professors.Perhaps this 1994 news article is an example of what we're talking about:

Extra! November/December 1994

Felons On The Air: Does GE's Ownership of NBC Violate the Law?
NBC Brings Good Things to GE

By Sam Husseini

General Electric's ownership of the NBC TV network has been in the news in recent months. As Extra! went to press, companies like Time Warner, Disney, ITT and Turner Broadcasting have reportedly been negotiating to either buy NBC outright or enter into some kind of partnership with GE. But a little-noted aspect of communications law raises questions about GE'sownership of NBC's broadcast licenses -- and its ability to sell those licenses to another company. ...

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1254

Avio

Im still confused in the "morality" of corporate television services. We're not talking TBN here. Stations exist to make money for the owners. If there's a magical feel good law or regulation that says they have to do anything but that prove it. Most day time shows are far from "serving the Public interests" but those immoral broadcasters and cable companies continue to air them.

And what's moral about Comcast profiting off of the work of the local broadcasters which receive no compensation from the cable companies. When its broadcasters, the free loader is resisting extortion. If its a Movie or music, the freeloader is called Pirates and bootleggers.

Be confused no more -

http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/P/htmlP/publicintere/publicintere.htm

John/All

I recently switched from Comcast to Dish. I like having the extra HD channels, and the lower cost. But IMO, the Comcast HD channels were fuller in color, and sharper (more detailed).

I have compared channels that both systems have in common, and in general the Comcast HD is better. This surprises me a bit, as others have said that DISH has better quality HD. Is it possible that DISH is compressing the signal more that Comcast, or is it a MPEG-2 vs. MPEG-4 thing?

I am using HDMI, and I don't see any colorspace options on the VIP-722. Occassionally I get a great picture, so I don't think it is a setup issue, but I am open to ideas. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Darrell

Well, i know Dish is better than Comcast's analog and regular digital channels. not sure about the 1080 stuff. i've heard they do bigger bit rates for their HD channels, but then, they have a whole lot less.

Yeah I was going to say, that I thought the same exact thing as you GoodSonics, when I switched from Comcast to Dish. I think it is because Dish is trying to cram so much HD and international SD and stuff that the bitrates for Dish HD are lower than Comcast. I thought about switching back when I first got Dish, but like Alimentall said, Comcast might have deeper colors, sharper, etc, but they hardly have any HD channels at all, so I would rather have the extra HD to watch, and deal with the lower bitrates (for now). Now that I have had Dish for 9 months it doesn't even bother me.

hopefully these three sats will free up bandwidth. if sat companies have all the bandwidth they need, there's no advantage to compression for them and gives them a competitive advantage. The only thing i don't know is what it would take to have that kind of bandwidth. Converting all SD channels to MPEG4 480p30 would help quite a bit if they haven't done that, then switch in full HD as the programming becomes available (kinda what Direct is doing now actually)

Be confused no more -

http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/P/htmlP/publicintere/publicintere.htm

So serving public good is based on some notion thats over 50 years old and was declared a violation of the first amendment in the 80s and repealed? Doesnt sound like that argument is holding much more water than a kitchen strainer.

So the FCC gets to decide what is right and so far lately thats profit, as long as you're not howard stern or having wardrobe malfunctions.

Profit is King baby! Just ask Comcast.

Converting all SD channels to MPEG4 480p30 would help quite a bit if they haven't done that, then switch in full HD as the programming becomes available (kinda what Direct is doing now actually)

That is what I was thinking. They can't convert all SD channels to MPEG4 yet, since there are a whole lot of people who would then not be able to watch anything. BUT I think they should start with SD channels that the least amount of people watch, and convert them into MPEG4. Then if a few people complain offer to give them the el cheapo MPEG4 receiver. Then all the international channels, make them ALL MPEG4 if they aren't already, I hate to say it but I think Dish is just about the only option for the diversity of international programming, so those people don't really have anywhere to go, offer them the reduced price MPEG4 receiver. Then start doing this for other channels which are considered premium, like maybe HBO 16, make that MPEG4 SD, and just that one, leave the rest of the HBO channels as MPEG2. Then if someone complains maybe offer the HBO for $2 less, or offer the MPEG4 receiver for a discount. Then just keep going, freeing up bandwidth as you go. This will at least give Dish some time until they get those other birds up.

So serving public good is based on some notion thats over 50 years old and was declared a violation of the first amendment in the 80s and repealed? Doesnt sound like that argument is holding much more water than a kitchen strainer.

So the FCC gets to decide what is right and so far lately thats profit, as long as you're not howard stern or having wardrobe malfunctions.

Profit is King baby! Just ask Comcast.

yes, well the Constitution is over 200 years old and rewriting that hasn't done much for us. There is no inherent right to free speech on *public* airwaves. On cable? Sure. Local TV and radio should be locally owned. Period. That was the original idea, not having someone from Indiana owning a station in ABQ. Can't do much about it now, but it's really just become a free for all and what's the pay off for us? Radio stations that change format every 3 months? TV stations that play games and don't upgrade their equipment.

yes, well the Constitution is over 200 years old and rewriting that hasn't done much for us. There is no inherent right to free speech on *public* airwaves. On cable? Sure. Local TV and radio should be locally owned. Period. That was the original idea, not having someone from Indiana owning a station in ABQ. Can't do much about it now, but it's really just become a free for all and what's the pay off for us? Radio stations that change format every 3 months? TV stations that play games and don't upgrade their equipment.
And Cable companies that withhold a major network that carries NFL NCAA and PGA to name a few in High Definition over a couple pennies a day. Anything is fair if it won't cut into their profits.

I got this reply from KRQE regarding the local scrolls. Looks like we are just having to put up with them. Too bad important local messages that would warrant a scroll are not more important as commercials (they will not play them during commercials).

Fred,

Good questions and comments. Unfortunately the scrolls go with any station being in the local news business. We build them into our morning news casts of course, and then we go to them when we think news warrants it for weather, or severe traffic or breaking news. Right now our local news is not produced in HiDef so yes, we have to switch back to standard def to insert them and that's a little jarring. But our community standard won't change with HiDef, we'll still have to do crawls. We don't do them over commericials because advertisers pay for their messages to be watched, not ours. That's what makes free over the air TV free.

Thanks for writing Fred, again I really do appreciate your feedback.

Bill Anderson
President and GM
KRQE-TV and KASA-TV

Here is the response from our local ABC station as far as the scrolls.

Good Morning and thank you for the email. Ok question one. We arescheduled to replace the equipment that handles the crawls to the HDversion in the coming months and prior to the full conversion to Digital injust over a year. As for running crawls over commercials, unless it is anemergency situation like Tornado warnings, evacuation information etc. weas most stations do, do not run crawls over commercial content. They paymoney to get their message out and often spend a lot of money having theircommercials made so we try out best not to override their messages. Hope that helps Thanks for watching Gary WilliamsDirector of EngineeringKOAT-TV

Fred,

While I see your concern with local breaking news being important it's not an issue of what is more important it's an issue of the station giving their clients what they paid for. If I had a business and could only afford 1-2 spots during prime time i would be supper pissed if the station covered my commercial with a scroll about school closures or high wind in another part of the state.

Just my .02 but it's free tv, if you don't want commercials or breaks in HD watch channels you pay for, I have never had directv interrupt my shows with a scrolling message.