Originally posted by bubbawilly
Thanks gents. This should be rather easy to confirm. One could even buy a boutique cable, and return it if that is not the real problem.

Blue Jeans Cable sells a 15 foot HDMI cable for about $60. That's on the very cheap side of boutique, but it is very high quality made for BJC by AVLink. They have a 30 day return policy. Based on the cost and quality of their cables across the board, I'd be willing to bet this cable is better than Monster or at least as good as BC.

Rule out the Blue Jeans $60 HDMI cable as a solution to the flashes. I own one (16') and experience the white flashes.

If anyone wants to help identify the culprit of flashes (cable vs source unit vs 700), please post your source unit(s), cable brand, cable length and whether it's HDMI->HDMI, DVI->HDMI, etc. at this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4638974#post4638974

It would also be interesting for anyone that is NOT experiencing flashes using their HDMI input on the 700 to post their equipment details over there.

Originally posted by HMenke
Try this one on for size.


http://home.insightbb.com/~henry.menke/TS2_sky_VB.jpg

Yeah, I see it there. But that's very mild compared to what I saw on a Z2 before.

Purchased the AE700 based on impressions & discussion in this forum. Using component cable with a Sony PS DVD player and S-video with a TIVO series II. (No HD available yet, unfortunately.) The AE700 replaces a Canon LSV-3 LCD projector. Pleased overall, and will probably keep.

The Big Win: The AE700 is bright enough to be watchable with some ambient light, esp. for recorded TIVO shows. The image for DVD at night is quite good. So far no significant VB, but I'm following the advice based on hard-won experience described in the forum (Thanks!) and turning off the main power rather than leaving it in standby. The cool-down period is short, so this is not proving to be onerous.

Deciding Factor in Selection: the flexibility in placement afforded by the combination of the throw range and lens shift made the difference in selection. Had previously previewed the Sony HS-20 (and liked very much), but the required ceiling mount installation would have added $1 to $2K to the cost. An added benefit of the rear shelf-mount is that it permits short cable runs to equipment (also placed at rear of room).

The Effect of Expectations: Typically product evaluation is influenced by expectations. For example, I've been conditioned by a lifetime of watching the artifact soup that is NTSC (Never The Same Color) tv to filter out transient glitches, so that isn't as bothersome to me as it may be to videophiles. However, I find extraneous noise distracting. The AE700 fan noise is substantially quieter than the Canon LCD that I was using previously, but still loud enough to be discernable, even on low lamp. (However, as a benchmark, I also find the whine of the hard disk in the TIVO distracting.) Dead quiet to an audiophile is probably the equivalent of absolute black to a videophile -- a desired but difficult to attain goal in the absence of unlimited resources.

Bottom line: For my particular setting and needs, the AE700 is probably the best price / performance combination that is likely to be available within the next 18 months. Thanks to everyone who contributed facts and experience that made an informed purchasing decision possible.

Every dvd seems to be different. I originally faulted the projector but now realize it is the source material. Wife watched "While You Were Sleeping" chick flick and it was grainy. I then put in "Star Wars Phantom Menace" and I thought there was a ghosting problem on some of the characters. Then I realized it was that stupid edge enhancement crap Lucas put on the movie. Followed up with "Ghost Ship" and no ghosting :) Crisp clear and looking sweet. I do think I am going to replace the black out cloth with HCCV material though. The image is good now but a tad more black improvement and maybe it will handle better ambient light too. I just hope the whites and colors are not knocked down any.

AVGadgetboy, you nailed it on the head! I find myself drawn into tweaking every movie. My wife tells me to knock it off and just watch the freaking film! :D

Anybody mess with the gamma settings?

Originally posted by NavinJohnson
Rule out the Blue Jeans $60 HDMI cable as a solution to the flashes. I own one (16') and experience the white flashes.



Interesting! I received my BJ HDMI-HDMI cable yesterday and it's 23 ft in length. After 3 hrs of DVD watching I did not experience any white flash. Maybe they will appear. I did get two quick artifacts (PAB?) during the three hours. So far, so good.

Your mileage will vary!

Originally posted by BobP

Anyone out there have the S97S (or other player) and have you seen a noticeable improvement with DVDs? Are you running component or HDMI? Does it get rid of the digital squigglys in certain parts of the movie, particularly when people or objects are in the distance (not sure what it is called, it's like you see when you enlarge a digital photo....evidence of compression?).

Thanks for any feedback,

Bob

I have the new Toshiba DVD player (model number escapes me at the moment) with the HDMI output. So far I have tried 720P, 1080i via the HDMI and 480P and 480I via component.

Perhaps there are slight differences but basically after a minute of watching DVD material, I cannot tell the difference nor remember which setting I'm using...it's that close. The one thing I did notice is that the HDMI output is slightly (3-2 scan lines) smaller than the component. Not sure why yet. I think it's the DVD player.

I purchased the HDMI cable for future use when I get HDTV running but using it now for the DVD.

HMenke,
I agree with you about the VB too! I only have 3 hrs. on mine and experienced the VB this morning. When I received it I tried different DVD's and HD from my Pioneer cable box and what a beautiful pic! Then the kids and I watched the NEMO DVD.........AWESOME!!! We went to bed and although I told myself NOT TO FORGET TO TURN OFF THE PJ AND NOT LEAVE IT IN STANDBY MODE..........I did.
This morning I turned it on, started the same DVD and noticed the VB @ the beginning of the movie.(When the all blue water scene, or it "pans" to the left or right.) It is there and I wasn't even looking for it. Now keep in mind, only 3 hrs on the unit and no tweaking yet. I turned the main power off and will let it set for the day and try it tonight with the same movie and the same scenes.
I don't want to flicker adjust it yet...........but if and when I do.......is there a certain rule I must follow? A certain pattern? Does one thing help more than others?
Thanxxxxx

Also, didn't know if this makes a difference.
I'm using a 110" Vutec Brite White, 16x9 screen at 17'-2" away. The room is totally light controlled and the the seating is 14' away from the screen. But the VB was present at anywhere in the room. Thanx.

hi everyone

thanks again COEX-pilot for the note:p, i live in Sweden and HDTV isn't really big here, so i will use the panny 700 for dvd (with the panny dvd-s97 and games(xbox and computer).

i have a question regarding calibration. i ordered my panny 700 from Germany and i am able for an additional $70-80 dollars get the cine4home(german tuning company) filter tuning the one they use on there website to achieve 2018:1 with perfect colors, the tuning is actually performed by cine4home.

my question is simple, is it worth the additional cost, does anyone have an opinion about this.


here is the link to cine4home tuning of the panny 700
http://www.cine4home.de/Tuning/PanaPTAE700/PTAE700Tuning.htm

Originally posted by wiredman
I don't want to flicker adjust it yet...........but if and when I do.......is there a certain rule I must follow? A certain pattern? Does one thing help more than others?
Thanxxxxx

It seems like the flicker adjust really helps you out in the early going, however as my unit has broken in, I have migrated back to the factory settings.

Basically when you are in the flicker adj menu, you will be looking at a red, a blue, and a green screen. My method is to find the lowest setting where you don't see the screen flicker and you don't see (or at least minimize) visible banding. You'll need to stare and let your eyes adjust in order to get the best settings.

ZoomAir

I checked the color decoder on my AE700 and it was extremely accurate. Nothing to adjust.

If you can select a color temperature that is fairly neutral, and run the projector through Avia, you should be fine.

well i just had the "white flash" issue for the first time using an HDMI->DVI 25' cable w/ my Hughes DTV receiver. Just had one "flash" of snow.

The weird thing is I was using this before and watched over 6 hours on it, but I was using a 6' DVI cable with a DVI-HDMI monster adapter. Didn't see the snow once. OH well, I really didn't think it was that big of a deal.

HMenke,
Are you leaving your 700 on with standby? It sounds as if the "break-in" period will help to reduce VB? Or am I getting too happy?

The first evening the projector recognized the component video output from the DVD player with no problem. The next day the AE700 would not recognize the component output, although it still sees the S-video connection. I've power cycled both the projector and DVD player, and gone through all the menus on both with no luck.

If anyone has any troubleshooting recommendations, they would be greatly appreciated.

Originally posted by wiredman
HMenke,
Are you leaving your 700 on with standby? It sounds as if the "break-in" period will help to reduce VB? Or am I getting too happy?

Oh no, no, no! Never standby for me - definitely brings VB back with a vengeance. Then it takes some time for it to go away again after undergoing "standby trauma".

In general, the AE700 has very little VB to speak of, unless you leave it in this dog-gone standby mode. If you do on purpose - or by accident - then you have to monkey around with flicker settings to get rid of the VB in the short term. But it tends to go away on its own with hours of use at the factory flicker settings.

Originally posted by tlink
The first evening the projector recognized the component video output from the DVD player with no problem. The next day the AE700 would not recognize the component output, although it still sees the S-video connection. I've power cycled both the projector and DVD player, and gone through all the menus on both with no luck.

If anyone has any troubleshooting recommendations, they would be greatly appreciated.

You'll need a process of elimination. First I would check all connections. Then I would try a different component cable. Then I would try a different DVD player (if you have one available to you). My assumption would be that the AE700 was OK and prove everything else was "good" before I suspected the AE700.

Also, are you running the component through an A/V receiver? This could also be a source of trouble.

I watched several hours of glorious HD last night and didn't have any HDMI sync issues. I am thinking that this is mainly the result of the weak DVI driver in my cable box. It seems like it's on the ragged edge of being able to drive the signal 23 ft. Random fluctuations in the strength of the cable signal or line voltage could mean the difference between HDMI working and not working. I do not think this issue is an inherent problem with the AE700.

It's kind of funny. I have an old Sharp LCD and have yet to see any VB. It's been used as a laptop carry along pj. Moved everywhere, multi-setups, upside down, left in standby for months and no VB. Wonder if it's the higher res or the higher contrast on the 700?
Hate to ask this again.......where are the flicker settings?

Originally posted by HMenke
Oh no, no, no! Never standby for me - definitely brings VB back with a vengeance. Then it takes some time for it to go away again after undergoing "standby trauma".

In general, the AE700 has very little VB to speak of, unless you leave it in this dog-gone standby mode. If you do on purpose - or by accident - then you have to monkey around with flicker settings to get rid of the VB in the short term. But it tends to go away on its own with hours of use at the factory flicker settings.

Same exact scenerio for me. I accidently left my 700 on standby one night. I panicked the next morning when I saw the VB. But within an hours viewing time - the (overnight standby) VB was gone. So at least if you forget to turn the main power off once in a while - VB will go away - and I didn't have to fool with the flicker adjustment either. Best not to forget to turn the main power off. I have a note by my alarm clock. VB is no longer a problem for me - but my wife thinks I'm crazy.

Originally posted by John Ballentine
I have a note by my alarm clock. VB is no longer a problem for me - but my wife thinks I'm crazy.

At least you're still sleeping nor have you invited the PJ into your room yet.;)

John,
Have you made any headway with the flashes you were having?

ted

I have these annoying scanlines showing up whenever there is vertical motion on screen, Sometimes it is soo bad I almost feel as if I am watching a film videotaped from a TV screen.

If I pause the image they seem to go away. But if I stand in front of the screen (with the curtains closed of course, my neighbours already think I am crazy enough) and move up and down quickly I see them again in that paused image... So I doubt a deinterlacer problem. This is tested with satellite, PC and interlaced and progressive dvd.

Can the ability to see these be a bit like seeing rainbows (RBE) on a dlp, not everybody sees those either?

Is someone (that has seen the scanlines on their pj) willing to look like a fool and do some fast kneebendings in front of a paused image and test if it is the same for you? If it is, I doubt there is anything to do about it, unfortunately (besides cursing your fast eye reactions).

Too bad my 700 is the only one I've seen, would be interesting to see if its better on others.

Originally posted by JimP
ZoomAir

I checked the color decoder on my AE700 and it was extremely accurate. Nothing to adjust.

If you can select a color temperature that is fairly neutral, and run the projector through Avia, you should be fine.

thanks for your reply, so with using avia or DVE i can get a similar result to the cine4home tuning, so if i understand it right it is not really necessary to pay the extra $70-80 for the cine4home tuning.

and also i am able to get the SANYO Z3 for about the same price what to you guys think of the sanyo vs the panny, i know this is a stupid question to ask in the panny forum but i hope for some objective answers.

also i am only able to change my order if i do it quickly so that i don't have to wait for the projector again, please post your opinions about the panny vs Z3.

thanks in advance:p

Originally posted by HMenke
You'll need a process of elimination. First I would check all connections. Then I would try a different component cable. Then I would try a different DVD player (if you have one available to you). My assumption would be that the AE700 was OK and prove everything else was "good" before I suspected the AE700.


HMenke - Thank you! Obtained another DVD player (Sony S975) and the component video output worked. You were right on the mark.

This leads to my next question ... the S975 also has HMDI output in addition to component, but a 4 meter HMDI cable is about $150 at Crutchfield. Is the difference in quality between analog component video and digital HMDI enough to warrant the expense for DVD playback?

There is more to this world than Crotchfield.

I don't want to add more unnecessary clutter to this thread, but I need retract my comments about VB. I turned off the projector at the main power, turned it on later and changed my flicker settings, and now VB is almost gone. There are people who don't own the projector who may be getting freaked out by some of the posts in this and the tweak thread, but my two cents says go ahead and buy.

Now it's time to build a theater...

Originally posted by tlink
HMenke - Thank you! Obtained another DVD player (Sony S975) and the component video output worked. You were right on the mark.

This leads to my next question ... the S975 also has HMDI output in addition to component, but a 4 meter HMDI cable is about $150 at Crutchfield. Is the difference in quality between analog component video and digital HMDI enough to warrant the expense for DVD playback?

you can get much better prices on HDMI cables from Lindy or RAM or many other retailers. my 10 meter HDMI cable just shipped...and it was only $94 from Lindy. a 5 meter cable would only run you $62.

Originally posted by jmike1
I don't want to add more unnecessary clutter to this thread, but I need retract my comments about VB. I turned off the projector at the main power, turned it on later and changed my flicker settings, and now VB is almost gone. There are people who don't own the projector who may be getting freaked out by some of the posts in this and the tweak thread, but my two cents says go ahead and buy.

Now it's time to build a theater... I'd rather get freaked about a projector than have a situation of informational-sharing and information wasn't shared.

If it makes you feel better about your purchase, please retract your comments. I'll pretend along with you that VB almost doesn't exist on your AE700. LOL

Originally posted by TheFerret
There is more to this world than Crotchfield.
Nice to know that you are a sensitive new age touchy-feelie kind of guy.:D

ted

Originally posted by broadwayblue
you can get much better prices on HDMI cables from Lindy or RAM or many other retailers. my 10 meter HDMI cable just shipped...and it was only $94 from Lindy. a 5 meter cable would only run you $62.

Be sure to let us know whether or not there are any flashes when you start using the HDMI port.

ted

Originally posted by TheFerret
I'd rather get freaked about a projector than have a situation of informational-sharing and information wasn't shared.

If it makes you feel better about your purchase, please retract your comments. I'll pretend along with you that VB almost doesn't exist on your AE700. LOL

I could probably live with the level of VB that has been pictured in this thread but what I could not tolerate would be the "flashes" that some are experiencing.

ted

Bit of a weird question - Just formatted htpc, loaded drivers for my 9800Pro, connect to ae700 via dvi to hdmi, and windows will not let me adjust the display properties resolution slider to get to 1280x720.
Its stuck down at very low resolution, and I dont seem to be able to make it budge!!

It was all working fine before the format, now this, can anyone please help? Clearly Im missing something.

Originally posted by tlink
Is the difference in quality between analog component video and digital HMDI enough to warrant the expense for DVD playback?

I don't have an HDMI DVD player yet, so can't comment on possible improvement over component. For my 23-ft HDMI cable I went with this:

http://www.avcable.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=HDMI&Category_Code=DVI

It is a very good cable for the money.

Originally posted by Eskapisten
I have these annoying scanlines showing up whenever there is vertical motion on screen, Sometimes it is soo bad I almost feel as if I am watching a film videotaped from a TV screen.

I see this also on my unit. People here have been calling this "peak-a-boo" scan lines. The only thing I can say is that I have gotten used to it now so I don't see them unless I look for them. When I first got the PJ, my eyes were drawn to them like a magnet.

Originally posted by tvted
I could probably live with the level of VB that has been pictured in this thread but what I could not tolerate would be the "flashes" that some are experiencing.

ted

These "flashes" occur maybe once or twice every couple of hours, it seems really rare.

Originally posted by tlink
HMenke - Thank you! Obtained another DVD player (Sony S975) and the component video output worked. You were right on the mark.

This leads to my next question ... the S975 also has HMDI output in addition to component, but a 4 meter HMDI cable is about $150 at Crutchfield. Is the difference in quality between analog component video and digital HMDI enough to warrant the expense for DVD playback?

For goodness sake, not at that price. You can do much better with other outfits including Ram Electronics which is a sponsor here.

Eskapisten,

As HMenke pointed out, what you are seeing are peak-a-boo scanlines. It is somewhat of an optical illusion, but that doesn't mean they should be there. Find a scene where you see the peak-a-boo scanlines, wait until your projector has been on for at least 20 minutes and then do the following:

1) Double check your flicker settings, the same ones that are adjusted to reduce vertical banding (the less flicker on each panel, the better, green being the one panel that has the most affect). The less flicker, the less peak-a-boo's you should see.

2) After having made sure your flicker settings are as good as they can be, next, play with the focus yourself, or have someone else do it while you do your knee bends. Adjust the focus, defocussing ever so slightly until the peak-a-boo's disappear. Close the cutains if you want :D

Next, remember that sitting back helps reduce them.

Honestly though, it shouldn't be a problem once you adjust everything and fine tune your setup. Don't panic, your projector needs to settle, and every once in a while, the peak-a-boo's rear their ugly head. I have an older L200 and every once in a while, I see them, but 99% of the time the image is silky smooth :)

Originally posted by bapenguin
These "flashes" occur maybe once or twice every couple of hours, it seems really rare.

Where I work I see a lot of news footage. Much of the editing can slap-dash when it has to meet a production deadline. One of the 'errors' that bothers me the most (and I see a lot of them) is flash frames - I find them extremely annoying and am known for catching them when others don't. Unfortunately the ENG editors are not under my supervision.

For me the rhythm of a film is sacrosanct - like music - anything that disrupts that takes away from my enjoyment. I can accept poor colour, SDE, VB a lot more readily than this.
Sorry for the rant - its one of my bugaboos - we all have them, this is mine.
Fortunately I believe its fixable.

I'm glad you tried to reassure me though. :)
ted

I had reported previously on the superiority of the AE700 over the AE300 for high-definition content. I am happy to report that it is also better for DVDs.

Springsteen Live In NYC is a good DVD to use, for a number of reasons. I have most of the tracks memorized; the performers are wearing dark clothing against a black background; combination of dark and brightly illuminated scenes; and good details partly because the original was shot in HD.

The increase in contrast really helps - I can see audience details in the background that I didn't notice before.

Colors are more saturated. For example, some audience members had bright red shirts which showed up as deep orange on the AE300.

Finer details. In the "Dancing In The Dark" track, Springsteen has a small cut under his chin that I never noticed before.

I am using a Toshiba 3750 connected via component. BTW when I was selecting DVD players, this one produced by far the sharpest picture.

Originally posted by cpc
Eskapisten,

As HMenke pointed out, what you are seeing are peak-a-boo scanlines. It is somewhat of an optical illusion, but that doesn't mean they should be there. Find a scene where you see the peak-a-boo scanlines, wait until your projector has been on for at least 20 minutes and then do the following:

1) Double check your flicker settings, the same ones that are adjusted to reduce vertical banding (the less flicker on each panel, the better, green being the one panel that has the most affect). The less flicker, the less peak-a-boo's you should see.

2) After having made sure your flicker settings are as good as they can be, next, play with the focus yourself, or have someone else do it while you do your knee bends. Adjust the focus, defocussing ever so slightly until the peak-a-boo's disappear. Close the cutains if you want :D

Next, remember that sitting back helps reduce them.

Honestly though, it shouldn't be a problem once you adjust everything and fine tune your setup. Don't panic, your projector needs to settle, and every once in a while, the peak-a-boo's rear their ugly head. I have an older L200 and every once in a while, I see them, but 99% of the time the image is silky smooth :)

Yes, I know what they are called (noone ever reads the title of a post? :))

All my settings should be ok, I have had my unit a month now and have 127 hours of use. I was probably the first in Sweden to report the evil vb after leaving in standby, and have spent several hours flicker adjusting. I would think it could be called adjusted and finetuned by now ;). VB I can tweak until it is no problem worth mentioning but the scanlines are annoying as h*ll.

Setting the pj slightly out-of-focus helps of course, and doesnt really affect the image itself negatively. But since I am swedish and most films are in english I want the subtitles and it is really distracting when they are out of focus, unfortunately.

HMenke and others that also sees this, can you make them show even in a paused image the way I described?

The reason I think it might be a bit like the RBE on the dlp is that I have several friends that have no clue what I talk about when pointing them out...

For those who can't see them at all but wants to get a hint what they are like: Enter the servicemenu (Option>OSD for 3 secs) and go to Service Mode. You will be met by a empty grey screen, do arrow up to get to a screen with every other horizontal line black (you can use right and left arrows to see the same screens and pattern in red, gren and blue if you want). Now imagine that screen with all the blacklines superimposed on your movie and you should get an idea of what peek-a-boo scanlines looks like.

I too have seen the white flashes. I have a 25 foot HDMI cable from Pacific cable. I'm using the Panasonic S97 for my DVD. I very rarely(one every two hours) see white flashes when it is in the 480P mode. Keep in mind that signal is been sent through the HDMI only. Now when when I switch between 720 and 1080 the white flashes begin to flash NON STOP. I mean it's like a snow storm. Luckily I haven't sheetrocked the ceiling yet. So I moved the dvd to where the projector is and hooked up the S97's supplied 6' cord and everything works fine. There might be a flash every once and a blue moon but it's not snowing. I really hate the snow and winter. I've tried 720p and 1080i and they look awesome. I too think the 1080i looks a little better. For those who want to know if this player helps I will say, absoultly. I have to run the DVD through the s- video now and it looks horrible compared to the HDMI 1080i or 720p. I also was using an old sony using a componet and that too didn't look good at all. But I haven't ever had a real good DVD player to compare to. I understand what a firmware upgrade is but do I have to send it in to make that happen or how is that done(if they ever make one)?

Now of course I need to return my cable(pain in my A@#). But will the next one work and how much I'm I going to pay for that. I have seen VB but it does go away with shutting it off, tweeking it, and after it runs for a hour or so. This thing is so cool that those things don't even bother me. This is my first projector I loving every minute with it. That sounded sick.

Well I'm off to the Vikes and Green bay game so I won't be able to reply for a day or so. Hope this helps anyone.

drew 300

Before returning that cable.

When I first got my AE700, I noticed what looked like snow in the darker areas of the projected image. I thought my 30' cable from Blue Jeans cable was at fault. Maybe exceed the max length. Anyway, after several hours of use, the snow in the dark areas went away. So, it must not have been cable related.

I think that the white flashes that's been reported by some is different than the white snow that I saw. You mentioned both in your post. On mine, I don't recall seeing the "white flash"

Originally posted by Eskapisten
Yes, I know what they are called (noone ever reads the title of a post? :))

I was probably the first in Sweden to report the evil vb after leaving in standby, and have spent several hours flicker adjusting.

I think you also have better spelling in English than us! "peek" vs. "peak"! :D And yes, I remember reading your early posts about VB and standby - thank you for the observation!

Originally posted by Eskapisten
HMenke and others that also sees this, can you make them show even in a paused image the way I described?

Unfortunately not...it appears to be a dynamic effect. On my machine, as soon as the motion stops, the lines disappear.

I think the way to combat this peek-a-boo effect involves experimenting with resolution and progressive vs. interlaced signals. For example, it might be a problem at 480p but not 1080i. I don't seem to notice them as much on HD material at 1080i.

Originally posted by Eskapisten
The reason I think it might be a bit like the RBE on the dlp is that I have several friends that have no clue what I talk about when pointing them out...

I agree. DLP RBE involves persistence of vision and processing by the brain. Peek-a-boo scan lines may be the same type of issue.

Thanks HMenke. The lines disappear here too when the motion stops, but if I set myself "in motion" jumping up and down, I can see them again in that paused image. Bummer I can't get too see someoneelses 700, if theirs are better in this regard I would know my pj is faulty and send it back.

Otherwise it is a nice step-up from my earlier AE100. Can't wait for HD-DVD and HD Television (we have no HD in Sweden yet, except for one satellite channel with very limited material :mad: . I can't justify shelling out for a new satellite box and subscription just to be able to watch that). I have DL'ed some 1280x720 demos and watched from my PC, it looked awesome and the somewhat fuzzy small details in an ordinary DVD is completely gone.

Originally posted by tvted
At least you're still sleeping nor have you invited the PJ into your room yet.;)

John,
Have you made any headway with the flashes you were having?

ted

The "flashes" I'm having are different than what others are experiencing. Everyone else is using HDMI when they see them. Mine are not "snowy" flashes and occur w/Component and S-Video. Same frequency though.

I mailed the unit back for repair/replacement. If not for this little bug-a-boo I would be extremely happy (95% anyway) w/ the 700. I'm hoping they can repair the unit (being an intermittent problem this will be difficult) as I have it dialed in perfectly (to my eyes) and there are absolutely no other problems with the unit. And like I said before - VB is no longer an issue for me (although I still have dreams about it).

Originally posted by Eskapisten
I have these annoying scanlines showing up whenever there is vertical motion on screen, Sometimes it is soo bad I almost feel as if I am watching a film videotaped from a TV screen.

If I pause the image they seem to go away. But if I stand in front of the screen (with the curtains closed of course, my neighbours already think I am crazy enough) and move up and down quickly I see them again in that paused image... So I doubt a deinterlacer problem. This is tested with satellite, PC and interlaced and progressive dvd.

Can the ability to see these be a bit like seeing rainbows (RBE) on a dlp, not everybody sees those either?

Is someone (that has seen the scanlines on their pj) willing to look like a fool and do some fast kneebendings in front of a paused image and test if it is the same for you? If it is, I doubt there is anything to do about it, unfortunately (besides cursing your fast eye reactions).

Too bad my 700 is the only one I've seen, would be interesting to see if its better on others.

Maybe you are sitting toooo close to the screen. What screen width away are you???

Originally posted by tvted
I could probably live with the level of VB that has been pictured in this thread but what I could not tolerate would be the "flashes" that some are experiencing. ted
Are you suggesting that I post a 'Flashing' poll to go along with my VB poll? :) LOL

Originally posted by ZoomAir about tuning the PT-AE700 by Cine4Home.de":

Thanks for your reply, so with using avia or DVE i can get a similar result to the cine4home tuning, so if i understand it right it is not really necessary to pay the extra $70-80 for the cine4home tuning.
What I have learned reading too many reviews and spending much time on this forum (I have sold my Sanyo Z2 and want a better one) is that you need a color-filter for optimal performance!

In my opinion (after reading thoroughly the "Cine4Home.de" article about tuning the Panasonic PT-AE700) if you buy a calibrated/filtered PT-AE700 you get a projector with optimal colour adjustment AND 1:2000 contrast AND maximal blacklevel AND the lumens output comparable with the PT-AE700 in "natural-mode".

If there is not a color-filter before your projector's lens it is not possible to get all of this above at the same time because the projector bulb is not able producing white light at the correct color temperature of 6500K. Cine4Home has sorted out that the light bulb of this projector needs a special color filter which filters more blue than green (to equal the light output of the red light).

With a correct color-filter installed, Cine4Home uses the 1:2000 contrast level which is only delivered in the PT-AE700 "Video-mode" (which has very high brightness and terrible color adjustments and is included only for business presentations) and they calibrate the projector for getting correct colors and gamma-tracking without losing too much brightness (brightness goes from "Video-mode"-level to "Natural-mode"-level).

Originally posted by John Ballentine
Maybe you are sitting toooo close to the screen. What screen width away are you???

Maybe 1,5-2x the width (84" screen), any further away sort of ruins the "cinema" experience.

Peek-a-boo's. Yep I blinded copied the text and forgot the spelling was incorrect. Peak and Peek. Oh well....

I really would like to have an AE700 or Z3 calibrated for maximum contrast etc if I buy one. Heck, I'd like my Panny 200 calibrated that way right now for that matter :)

I wish I knew someone in the Toronto area that calibrated lcd projectors using filters, didn't charge a fortune, and had a good reputation for obtaining great results. What online retailers provide this service for PJ's they sell? Just Cine4home?

I haven't gotten my projector yet, but what most people are describing as peekaboo scan lines sounds like scaler artifact to me. My quadscan used to do that frequently.

Originally posted by Bass
What I have learned reading too many reviews and spending much time on this forum (I have sold my Sanyo Z2 and want a better one) is that you need a color-filter for optimal performance!

In my opinion (after reading thoroughly the "Cine4Home.de" article about tuning the Panasonic PT-AE700) if you buy a calibrated/filtered PT-AE700 you get a projector with optimal colour adjustment AND 1:2000 contrast AND maximal blacklevel AND the lumens output comparable with the PT-AE700 in "natural-mode".

If there is not a color-filter before your projector's lens it is not possible to get all of this above at the same time because the projector bulb is not able producing white light at the correct color temperature of 6500K. Cine4Home has sorted out that the light bulb of this projector needs a special color filter which filters more blue than green (to equal the light output of the red light).

With a correct color-filter installed, Cine4Home uses the 1:2000 contrast level which is only delivered in the PT-AE700 "Video-mode" (which has very high brightness and terrible color adjustments and is included only for business presentations) and they calibrate the projector for getting correct colors and gamma-tracking without losing too much brightness (brightness goes from "Video-mode"-level to "Natural-mode"-level).

thanks for your reply, ok it seems that it is worth the extra $70-80 for the tuning, but i also have an other question.

i have ordered the panny 700 but i am able to change the order to a Z3(tuned by cine4home), and i have tested the Z3 and it was great(not tuned) but i haven't tested the 700 but i went with it after reading reviews and forums. so i wonder do anyone have an opinion about this two i know it is a stupid question to ask in the panny forum but any opinions and toughts would be great so that i can decide between them:p (the dealer said that the tuned Z3 looked slightly better then the tuned 700, but the 700 without the tuning looked better then the Z3 without the tuning, they where so impressed with cine4homes tuning on the Z3 so they now include the tuning in the price for the Z3.)

looking for punch and depth differences

thanks in advance

Originally posted by Eskapisten
Maybe 1,5-2x the width (84" screen), any further away sort of ruins the "cinema" experience.

Yes - seems that you are sitting plenty far enough away. Thought you were sitting at just 1X.

I don't know why peek-a-boos don't bother me. Everything else seems to (rainbows, flashes, VB, FPN, dithering, macroblocking, posturization, EE, dropouts, solarization, grain, reel-change-dots, splices, snits, tears, drop-outs, black crush, layer changes, ringing, red-push, convergence errors, blooming, geometric distortion, etc.)

Here is a quick pic of my DIY mount. It has a ball joint at the base. I had to use a piece of hard acrylic to cut the mounting plate. Think I will paint it black to match. First time posting a pic so I hope it works :)

The grommet needs to be glued to the ceiling yet but I may have more cables to run so I am not entirely finished.

Here is a screenie from Tomb raider 2 inside the cave. That is why everything is blue. Just using a cheap Fuji Finepix, 2 megapixel without flash. I have a buddy with expensive Canon gear. I am still trying to get him to come over and take some better shots.

I've been reading how many of you believe that turning off the power at the mains will help to minimize vertical banding.

I know that this is problematic for those of you with ceiling mounted projectors, as it is obviously a pain to try to reach the power switch.

I think that a good workaround would be to use the X1 system

X1 system is comprised of a receiver and a remote control (about the size of a credit card)

Here you plug the projector into an X1 receiver and plug the receiver into the power outlet.

Once you have finished watching your movie and the projector has cooled down, you simply click the X1 remote and it kills the power to the projector.

I use this system in my apartment to turn on and off lights. Each remote can control up to 4 receivers. The system works really well, its extremely inexpensive and a cinch to install.

Hope this helps. My AE700 is on the way and I'm going to give this a try :)

Here are a couple pics showing what I originally thought was ghosting but is infact edge enhancement. It only appears on certain dvd's. This is from 2 Fast 2 Furious. From a distance it is mildly distracting but at closer than 1.4x it bugs the hell out of me. I had trouble focusing but you can clearly see what I am talking about. Anyone else bothered by it?

Here is the closeup, sorry for the poor focus.

Im starting to think VGA is a preferable option to HDMI. I was amazed to see how good the VGA output from a HTPC actually looked. Suprising as it may seem i think it showed a cleaner windows desktop than HDMI. VGA also has that wonderful AUTO picture option that fills a 16:9 screen beautifully with one click and 1:1 panel matching.

If the picture quality via HDMI was obviously superior i would stick with it but it is so close between HDMI and VGA on the Panny that its really a no brainer to go with VGA given then cropping issue with HDMI.

I urge anyone with a HTPC whos getting annoyed with the cropping to try running a quality VGA cable. I did and i wont be going back :)

Related to this i still dont see how it would be possible to perfectly fill a 16:9 screen if there is vertical pixel cropping. Am i missing something obvious ?

Don't be surprised, VGA (RGBHV) is probably the best analog transport there is. The LCD display is an RGB device and you may in fact be skipping transcoding as a result (although you are introducing an DA/AD conversion).

One last screen shot. Pretty good colors and brightness. Normal mode with high lamp and 0 color temp. You can see the black bars (dark grey) from viewing the 2.35:1 on my 1.78:1 screen. Wish I had power masking to fix it :)

Originally posted by TheFerret
Are you suggesting that I post a 'Flashing' poll to go along with my VB poll? :) LOL

Given some of the preferences I've read in these parts I would suggest that might be risky and I'm not to sure I would want to read the results.;)

ted

Originally posted by John Ballentine
I don't know why peek-a-boos don't bother me. Everything else seems to (rainbows, flashes, VB, FPN, dithering, macroblocking, posturization, EE, dropouts, solarization, grain, reel-change-dots, splices, snits, tears, drop-outs, black crush, layer changes, ringing, red-push, convergence errors, blooming, geometric distortion, etc.)

Holy crap! That's quite the litany. I thought I was a nut - you should be working in my biz - either you would become callous and jaded like me or you'd be off to the farm. I get the feeling you are smarter than that though.:D

Good thing this is a hobby and can't be taken too seriously.;)
ted

Originally posted by Jcam9
Here is the closeup, sorry for the poor focus.

Oh yeah, that edge enhancement rankles me too! It does look a lot like ghosting from multipath RF reception. At first I thought it was an analog artifact from the component feed, but as you point out it is not apparent on all DVDs. I used to read about people complaining about edge enhancement, but on my old 32" CRT television, I never saw what they were talking about.

Nice job on the celing mount by the way. Looks sharp!

Originally posted by jayfsee007
I've been reading how many of you believe that turning off the power at the mains will help to minimize vertical banding.

I know that this is problematic for those of you with ceiling mounted projectors, as it is obviously a pain to try to reach the power switch.

I think that a good workaround would be to use the X1 system

X1 system is comprised of a receiver and a remote control (about the size of a credit card)

Here you plug the projector into an X1 receiver and plug the receiver into the power outlet.

Once you have finished watching your movie and the projector has cooled down, you simply click the X1 remote and it kills the power to the projector.

I use this system in my apartment to turn on and off lights. Each remote can control up to 4 receivers. The system works really well, its extremely inexpensive and a cinch to install.

Hope this helps. My AE700 is on the way and I'm going to give this a try :)

I believe you meant X10, not X1.

I thought of doing this over 5 years ago with my first projector, but never have. I beleive it would be too dangerous. When you accidently hit the off remote control (when, not if), you'll hurt your bulb by giving it a hard power off, equivalent to simply pulling out the plug when the pj is running full bore.

Also, you can't use just any X10 module. You must use the relay type meant for appliances, rated for at least 500W.

Third, X10 is OK most of the time, but it is a squirrely protocol- not very robust. I've had modules randomly turn on and off, and have had every module turn off when I was trying to simply dim one X10 code from one of the freebie remote pads. If I'd had an X10 module on the pj, I would've been blowing bulbs often.

Yes, you can buy much higher grade X10 compatible appliance modules, but you still need to protect against simple one button push mistakes.

Originally posted by TheFerret
Don't be surprised, VGA (RGBHV) is probably the best analog transport there is. The LCD display is an RGB device and you may in fact be skipping transcoding as a result (although you are introducing an DA/AD conversion).

LG has an interesting combo terrestrial HDTV STB + upconverting DVD player with DVI. Most remarkable is the 15-pin RGB output for 1080i/720p/480p as well.

http://us.lge.com/download/product/file/1000000114/LST3510A.pdf

Originally posted by HMenke
Oh yeah, that edge enhancement rankles me too! It does look a lot like ghosting from multipath RF reception. At first I thought it was an analog artifact from the component feed, but as you point out it is not apparent on all DVDs. I used to read about people complaining about edge enhancement, but on my old 32" CRT television, I never saw what they were talking about.

Nice job on the celing mount by the way. Looks sharp!

We need to clarify where the EE is coming from. I believe the examples here are all from the source DVD, which is common in most DVD authoring.

I know that WSR and PC reviews mentioned the AE700 adding a small amount of EE to test patterns, but I don't think that is what we are seeing here.

Given the "SHARPENING" setting on the AE700 is set to something reasonable ("0" or lower), I think most of the edge enhancement you'll see with this projector is due to over-zealous DVD mastering, not the projector. We just don't see it on a relatively modest-sized CRT screen.

I have found no extra sharpening added by the projector. It's just the telecione guys (egged on by the producers), mastering a "sharp" copy for display on a TV set. People with projectors have finally uncovered their scam.

I am stoked on this pj. Had some friends over last night and they were very impressed. The wife said "I want one"....how cool is that!

Last night, however, I found a dead pixel. During some standard def programming that was cropped on my wide screen I saw it against the gray bar on the right. It's kind of pinkish, with ugly eyes and bad teeth.

I've heard about these but now wonder if this is something systemic and will spread or is one not a bad deal and nothing to worry about?

This afternoon I thought it had gone away but when a commercial came on with the gray bars...there it was! It's not at all noticeable when watching wide screen programming and, again....I really have to look for it to see it. But after spending time on this board, I find myself "looking" for the bugger.

So what's the scoop on dead pixels? Do you only get the ones that are there when you got your pj or can they continue to crop up? When is it enough of an issue to ask for a replacement? Will Panasonic replace a pj due to a single dead pixel?

Asking because though I've heard of these I'm not sure what you videophiles would suggest knowing what you do about them.

Bob

I noticed more than one person on here setting the AE700 sharpness values to below zero. Like -4 or something similar.

I agree, this EE is coming from poorly mastered DVDs. I have my Sharpness control all the way down for every picture mode and input.

I've tried lowering Sharpness to -1 & -2 to improve the smoothness of the image. But after a while, I found it too soft, so now I'm back to the 0 setting. I belief that the need to soften the picture is often the result of the source rather than the projector.

Perhaps it's because I'm only watching DVDs with interlaced component input?

Originally posted by yipchunyu
Upset with Hong Kong's dealer's service:
I bought the AE700 about three weeks ago. I bought an KR6 filter about a week before. It correct the colors and increase the contrast. And the problem become more obvious. The lower right corner (when I ceiling mount) is more red than the other place on the screen.
If I don't use the filter, the situation is better as the contrast is a little bit lower.
So, I contact them in last saturday and see what they can do (as my unit also get problem in alignment of the three color lcds -- the red and green color is lower / besides the blue one)
They told me a Japanese Technican will come to Hong Kong on monday and so they pick my own one and see what they can do.
Today, I phone the manager to see what's going on. What he do is just avoid to bear the responsibility and told me that the Japan technican said the error is within their standard. I'm so sad, I read a lot before I buy the pj but still get so much problem.

Update:
Phoned with their manager and finally, I get a brand new machine (the Japanese techican think the color uniformity is quite big an issue).
The new one is much better (so lucky). I still haven't calibrate it (may be run after 40 hours)
BTW, I still don't understand this. Must I use high fan mode if I mount it on the ceiling (but there are about 18 inches gap)? I read it in the manual but don't understand why. Any help is very much apprecited.

I did a search on "HDCP compatible" to see if this is addressed in this huge thread but didn't get the answer.

I know the AE-700U is supposed to be HDCP compatible but I just had a Charter Communications Cable HD STB (Scientific Atlantic Explorer 8000HD) installed by the cable company and then later I added a 10' DVI to HDMI cable between them and can't get a thing on screen with the HDMI input on the AE-700U except a pop up from my cable supplier (presumably) that says "Your television is not HDCP compatible. Please select the component input to watch television".

Any ideas on what this is all about?

Originally posted by hitchfan
I did a search on "HDCP compatible" to see if this is addressed in this huge thread but didn't get the answer.

I know the AE-700U is supposed to be HDCP compatible but I just had a Charter Communications Cable HD STB (Scientific Atlantic Explorer 8000HD) installed by the cable company and then later I added a 10' DVI to HDMI cable between them and can't get a thing on screen with the HDMI input on the AE-700U except a pop up from my cable supplier (presumably) that says "Your television is not HDCP compatible. Please select the component input to watch television".

Any ideas on what this is all about?

a co-worker of mine gets the exact same message with his 32" HDCP compatible widescreen CRT using a DVI-HDMI connection. he is able to get the cable to work when he toggles through the inputs on his set. kind of annoying, but a workaround nonetheless.

Originally posted by Durabolin
Im starting to think VGA is a preferable option to HDMI. I was amazed to see how good the VGA output from a HTPC actually looked. Suprising as it may seem i think it showed a cleaner windows desktop than HDMI. VGA also has that wonderful AUTO picture option that fills a 16:9 screen beautifully with one click and 1:1 panel matching.

If the picture quality via HDMI was obviously superior i would stick with it but it is so close between HDMI and VGA on the Panny that its really a no brainer to go with VGA given then cropping issue with HDMI.

I urge anyone with a HTPC whos getting annoyed with the cropping to try running a quality VGA cable. I did and i wont be going back :)

Related to this i still dont see how it would be possible to perfectly fill a 16:9 screen if there is vertical pixel cropping. Am i missing something obvious ?

THANK YOU!!!:) That's exactly what I needed to hear.

I'm still setting up my room and will be ready to purchase my 700 in a month, I was getting concerned with all the drama's people are having with HDMI. Now I can relax, secure in the knowledge that a quality VGA cable will be the right solution for me.

ahhh I feel better already. Thanks again.:D

Originally posted by AVGadgetBoy
I've tried lowering Sharpness to -1 & -2 to improve the smoothness of the image. But after a while, I found it too soft, so now I'm back to the 0 setting. I belief that the need to soften the picture is often the result of the source rather than the projector.

Perhaps it's because I'm only watching DVDs with interlaced component input?

If you aren't used to having the Sharpness turned down, at first it will "seem" soft. However if you stick with it a while you'll notice more detail that the Sharpness had been covering up. Also, when a really clean source comes through, the picture really pops and looks outstanding. The AE700 will display what comes into it very faithfully, so the better the source the better the image.

The Sharpness control actually adds high frequency noise to the signal to give an impression of sharper detail on lower-quality displays, but really it is interfering with the source material in a major way.

Originally posted by yipchunyu
Must I use high fan mode if I mount it on the ceiling (but there are about 18 inches gap)? I read it in the manual but don't understand why. Any help is very much apprecited.

The fan will automatically run higher when you mount the projector upside-down in Ceiling mode. If you mount it near the ceiling in Desk mode, you should probably run high fan because the air gets hot up there.

BTW I was in Singapore once - a beautiful island country.

Originally posted by HMenke
The fan will automatically run higher when you mount the projector upside-down in Ceiling mode. If you mount it near the ceiling in Desk mode, you should probably run high fan because the air gets hot up there.

BTW I was in Singapore once - a beautiful island country.

thx for your info. I never been Singapore and may be I should go there once.
BTW, if u go to asia again. Hong Kong (my living place) is quite a good place to buy things. (the service is not so good but the price is quite low here)

Are there any tuning companies in the States that will provide services similar to cine4home? I'd be willing to pay $70-80 to get the projector optimised and properly calibrated.

Originally posted by broadwayblue
a co-worker of mine gets the exact same message with his 32" HDCP compatible widescreen CRT using a DVI-HDMI connection. he is able to get the cable to work when he toggles through the inputs on his set. kind of annoying, but a workaround nonetheless.

Broadwayblue, thanks for the suggestion, but I don't have a receiver or anything standing between the HD STB and the projector and you get to the HDMI input through a dedicated button on the remote so there's no toggling to do.

Unfortunately, I couldn't get the message to show when I reached Panasonic customer service earlier today and they seemed skeptical that I had the message right and that it really referred to the "television" not being compatible with HDCP. I'm going to call them again when they open tomorrow.

NOW I can get it to show and this is the message exactly as I'm looking at it right now:

DVI ALERT
Your HDTV does not support HDCP.
Please use the YPrPb component connection to watch TV.

The resources on this board are often better than the folks on the phones, so before I get a cable technician and the Panasonic cs involved tomorrow, does the above message ring a bell for anyone here?

Originally posted by yipchunyu
Update:
Phoned with their manager and finally, I get a brand new machine (the Japanese techican think the color uniformity is quite big an issue).
The new one is much better (so lucky). I still haven't calibrate it (may be run after 40 hours)


I'm particularly concerned about the color uniformity on my set too, especially after I have turned up the red. Maybe you could look at these shots and see if their comparable to you previous problem set.

The setting used for these scenes are at Normal mode with color temp at -1, and red turned up quite a bit (about 8 ~10 if I dont remember wrongly). The projector is also set for ceiling (but placed upside down on the coffee table, and len shift is near its limit). Anyone else seeing the same effect?

Thanks.

Here's another one at the same setting of Kill Bill Vol2 scene.

And another more extreme scene with the same setting.

Forgot to mention that I'm using maximum zoom (ie. largest size).

Is this is normal or should I return to dealer (gonna be quite a hassle though)?

Any advise will be appreciated.

Well maximum zoom is rumoured to exacerbate color uniformity issues. So does extreme lens shift. Why are you pumping up the red anyway ?

You have a wacky set up if its in ceiling mode on a freakin coffee table upside down. Why ? Seems like thats counterproductive to me unless your coffee table is 9 feet tall.

I've also experienced the flashes since day one with my 700.
Panasonic AE700 bought in Switzerland (bottom of PJ dated September 2004).
Average of 2-3 flashes per 2 hour movie.
Do not see any flashes with Component input.

Source: Denon 3910 HDMI in 720p
Cable: 3m (10') Oehlbach HDMI-HDMI

Originally posted by AVGadgetBoy
I'm particularly concerned about the color uniformity on my set too, especially after I have turned up the red. Maybe you could look at these shots and see if their comparable to you previous problem set.

The setting used for these scenes are at Normal mode with color temp at -1, and red turned up quite a bit (about 8 ~10 if I dont remember wrongly). The projector is also set for ceiling (but placed upside down on the coffee table, and len shift is near its limit). Anyone else seeing the same effect?

Thanks.

Ouch, send that back! There is no way to correctly calibrate a pj with that color cast. Impossible to tell when you are at a neutral greyscale.

I guess you are pumping the red to compensate for the green shift?

I find it intriguing that it seems viable to use to VGA input for HTPC and still get good quality. This would allow us to avoid getting a DVI/HDMI switcher to use both a HTPC and a HDMI DVD player.
What exactly does the :auto" mode when using vga in do?

Auto moves the picture around till you have no overscan. It plays with 4 settings which off the top of my head are Hz and Vertical shift plus 2 clock variables. Seems to be idiot proof. Try it out.

Btw its not good quality its great quality :)

Originally posted by Durabolin
Well maximum zoom is rumoured to exacerbate color uniformity issues. So does extreme lens shift. Why are you pumping up the red anyway ?

You have a wacky set up if its in ceiling mode on a freakin coffee table upside down. Why ? Seems like thats counterproductive to me unless your coffee table is 9 feet tall.

Reason for pumping up red is due to too much blue in NORMAL mode. Green was also increased slightly (+2).

Yes, it is certainly a wacky setup, but its the only way for me to put the projector as far left as possible on my coffee table (due to room constrain). Because of limited lens shift, if I put projector upright it can only be push that much left (as lens is already on the left of the projector). Flipping the projector upside down not only allowed me to put the projector further left, the exhaust will also blow away to the outer left.

AVGadgetBoy

Your color uniformity issue may be caused by your somewhat unorthodox installation. Before sending the unit back, flip it right side up and move it such that its centered on the screen. Do you still have color uniformity problems in this position??

Just tried VGA and Auto setup and indeed it does work beautifully. Thanks for the tips.
I get perfect pixel mapping now, which I could not achieve over DVI.

Originally posted by yipchunyu
thx for your info. I never been Singapore and may be I should go there once.
BTW, if u go to asia again. Hong Kong (my living place) is quite a good place to buy things. (the service is not so good but the price is quite low here)

Oh sorry, I must have been thinking about the country of AVGadgetBoy. I would like ot visit Hong Kong - I did hear that there are very good deals on electronics there!

Originally posted by cpc
I noticed more than one person on here setting the AE700 sharpness values to below zero. Like -4 or something similar.

I'm very bothered by EE and ringing. I have my sharpness all the way down at - 6. Gives the image more of a "film" look - and the picture is still plenty sharp for me.

Is it anyones experience that some movies tend to have more SDE than others? I was watching Spiderman on my Panny700 and noticed some wicked Screendoor action throughout the movie! I also saw some during the movie Drumline. I have a white Blackout cloth screen and up until now SDE has not been a problem. Just wondering....

BTW my sharpness setting is 0, and everything else is pretty much default settings.


Bill

Help!

Love my AE700 for movies and have no problems at all (no VB, color probs, etc). However, XBox is another story. I use component connection for both DVD and XBox. Beautiful picture with component out of my DVD player with either progressive scan on or off. When I turn on the progressive scanning on the XBox for ANY game....constant, nonmoving greenish and purplish transparent 3 inch vertical lines overlap the picture. The lines alternate tints all the way across the screen. When I turn off the progressive scanning on the XBox it goes away....however, the graphics lose a lot of detail. It is QUITE a difference.

Anyone have any idea on how to fix this or what the problem is? THANKS in advance for you insight!!!

Have you tried adjusting that dot clock setting? I thought I had read somewhere that dot clock adjustments fixed someone's Xbox issues.

reaper

If dot clock doesn't help, maybe it's a cabling issue? I tried XBox for the first time on my AE700 last night, component in, progressive mode, and it looked fine with no adjustments required.

Originally posted by crueman
Help!

Love my AE700 for movies and have no problems at all (no VB, color probs, etc). However, XBox is another story. I use component connection for both DVD and XBox. Beautiful picture with component out of my DVD player with either progressive scan on or off. When I turn on the progressive scanning on the XBox for ANY game....constant, nonmoving greenish and purplish transparent 3 inch vertical lines overlap the picture. The lines alternate tints all the way across the screen. When I turn off the progressive scanning on the XBox it goes away....however, the graphics lose a lot of detail. It is QUITE a difference.

Anyone have any idea on how to fix this or what the problem is? THANKS in advance for you insight!!!

I currently have the AE 500 and am thinking of upgrading to the AE700. Is there really a big quality difference in PQ? I do watch with a little ambient light, and that's an issue for me on the AE500.

I read one poster here who said there is a big difference betwen the two, but I'd like to get a few more opinions before I go ahead. Sorry if this has been asked often, but after reading about 40 pages of this thread, it's quite a job to get through the other 100.

BTW I have the Panny S97 player and would go hdmi>hdmi to the display.


Any heip would be appreciated

Reaper & TraderGordo,

THANKS for the info! Will try adjusting the dot clock tonight. Don't even know what dot clock is or what it does but if you guys think it has a shot of fixing my problem, I'm willing to press some buttons.

Thanks again!!

hi everyone

has anyone seen the panny compared to a sony hs50 is it day and night diffrance or isn't that noticeable to a first time projector buyer:p, i have ordered the panny and i hope the sony doesn't make the panny look completely terrible when you put them side by side

thanks in advance

Zoomair, the Sony will not make the Panny look terrible as long as both are adjusted correctly. The big thing for me is the brightness(lumens) from the Sony. That was the dealbreaker for me. That and the fact I owned a L500U before that I was enamored with.
Ahro- This is a tossup, the PQ problems I saw with the AE500 are all but eliminated in the 700. If light is a problem, get the 700. How are you going to hook it up? I found that most regular sources from a DVD player and or game console will not look that great until you do all of the preliminary adjustments. The biggest caveat vs the 500 for me was the HDMI and combing. I found a workaround for those, but YMMV.

Someone stated a correction about the Sony, but you have to keep in mind regarding which mode you are going to use and calibrate. For instance, the reason why Cine4home used the video mode was that post-calibration yielded more lumens than had they used another mode, even under the constraint/goal of maximu CR at color targeting.

I am going to Hong Kong this Christmas and am seriously consider buying AE700 and bring it back. Will panasonic service my projector here if anything go wrong?

I doubt it. And if they don't what then? It can be had for 2/3 of its list price. If you need to save a couple hundred more keep in mind that if you have to ship it back overeseas it could cost you as much as you would save.

Reaper...TraderGordo,

I was just thinking about your suggestion about changing the dot clock. Will changing this setting possibly affect my picture when playing DVD or when I get high def TV service. XBox will be about 1/2 of the usage of the projector and I'm quite concerned. But I don't want to do anything that would negatively affect the other 1/2 of my usage.

I guess I just don't understand dot clock.

Since when does it cost $300 to ship back to Japan or Hong Kong? You are covered under Panasonics warrenty. You just have to send it back to the dealer in Japan. If you think about it, the savings is pretty nice. The only problem is if you can't understand Japenese.....lol.

Originally posted by zxlr8
Since when does it cost $300 to ship back to Japan or Hong Kong? You are covered under Panasonics warrenty. You just have to send it back to the dealer in Japan. If you think about it, the savings is pretty nice. The only problem is if you can't understand Japenese.....lol.
Who said $300? I said a couple of hundred. Couple, meaning two. And I only go buy what some overseas vedors are claiming it costs to ship projectors. Its presumed you are going through your overseas dealer, but I suppose if you ship directly to an overseas Panasonic repair facility it could be cheaper.

I just checked what PJapan is charging for shipping and its about $75-100 one-way, and this doesn't mean there isn't a chance of the port authority levying a tariff either.

Ferret,
I'm thinking physically buying from the dealer in H.K. and bring it back. One of the PM I got from AVS forum member in H.K. said that I can save about 30% off the online price here. If it is only for two, three hundred dollars, I will not take the risk at all.

You indicated that the diference in price for the projector from Japan is equal to the difference in shipping it to the dealer in America. That is simply not true, whether you think it is a good idea or not. This is what I was disputing. not your meaning of a COUPLE. Now I have noticed the group buy for the HS51. That still puts a big diff between the 2. It is a lot to me , not for some. I think they are both really nice. We are lucky in this day and age to be able to choose between the 2. Without going into specific pricing, the PJapan will be a lot cheaper even if you have to send it in twice.

They must be selling it for below $1700 to do that. Froogle can be of some help, but there are plenty advertising online pretty cheaply.

Originally posted by hitchfan
I did a search on "HDCP compatible" to see if this is addressed in this huge thread but didn't get the answer.

I know the AE-700U is supposed to be HDCP compatible .... *CROP*

Any ideas on what this is all about?

I just came in looking for the same answer.
I was under the impression, thanks to an obscure single sentence in the ProjectorCentral review, that it was HDCP compliant as well.

HOWEVER, everything I have been reading today ... including a conversation with a Tech at Panasonic ... is pointing otherwise.

Is there anyone out there using the AE700U with an HDCP compliant source and *NOT* having trouble?

Anyone have anything in print from Panasonic stating the AE700U is HDCP compliant?

You can pick up the AE700 for less than US$2000. There is a AE700 Powerbuy floating around.

Wow, I never thought about the possability that the AE700 might not be HDCP compliant. Does HDMI take DVI+JDCP into its umbrella specification (I don't know)?

Ericbres

I've got a Voom satellite receiver and a Denon 5900 outputting DVI to HDMI and am not having any kind of HDCP problems. I do have to scroll through the output resolutions sometimes for it to lock on. Maybe that's the problem.

Originally posted by JimP
Ericbres

I've got a Voom satellite receiver and a Denon 5900 outputting DVI to HDMI and am not having any kind of HDCP problems. I do have to scroll through the output resolutions sometimes for it to lock on. Maybe that's the problem.

Thanks for the input Jim.
I never in a gazillion years would have figured it wouldn't be.
Let alone that I was under the impression from everything I have read that the HDMI was designed to always encorporate the HDCP compliancy.

I'm going to give someone else at Panasonic a call and see if I can get something from them stating it is ... so I can reply to this knucklehead in their tech group who said it wasn't.

Originally posted by TheFerret
Wow, I never thought about the possability that the AE700 might not be HDCP compliant. Does HDMI take DVI+JDCP into its umbrella specification (I don't know)?

According to

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/faq.asp

HDCP is not a requirement for HDMI interfaces. A separate organization licenses HDCP.

I checked the entire AE700 manual. NO mention of HDCP.

This is getting interesting...

Question about SDE
Is it anyones experience that some movies tend to have more SDE than others? I was watching Spiderman on my Panny700 and noticed some wicked Screendoor action throughout the movie! I also saw some during the movie Drumline. I have a white Blackout cloth screen and up until now SDE has not been a problem. Just wondering....

BTW my sharpness setting is 0, and everything else is pretty much default settings.


Bill

Originally posted by Rgb
According to
http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/faq.asp
HDCP is not a requirement for HDMI interfaces. A separate organization licenses HDCP.
I checked the entire AE700 manual. NO mention of HDCP.
This is getting interesting...
This is truly a revelation. How can someone (outside of JVC) ship a product in this age that isn't HDCP-complaint is anyone's guess. Are any of the Microsoft HD clips with HDCP on them? Is there a way to fabricate a condition off the PC to do this?

I've checked the panasonic broucher and don't see hdcp listed there either? the specs on projector central do list it as being hdcp.

projector central is not 100% accurate. I have found misinformation in their database for a variety of projectors over the past couple of years. And even when I've pointed it out to them they seem not care.

Lets not jump to conclusions....All of the WMVHD clips I have seen work fine.

Originally posted by zxlr8
Lets not jump to conclusions....All of the WMVHD clips I have seen work fine. Um, DRM is one thing, but does this also mean that those WMVHD clips are also encoded in HDCP? I am betting they are not, because I can play them just fine with a non-HDCP compliant display.

I did not infer that. I believe you did. All of my WMVHD discs play fine as well.

Originally posted by zxlr8
Zoomair, the Sony will not make the Panny look terrible as long as both are adjusted correctly. The big thing for me is the brightness(lumens) from the Sony. That was the dealbreaker for me. That and the fact I owned a L500U before that I was enamored with.
Ahro- This is a tossup, the PQ problems I saw with the AE500 are all but eliminated in the 700. If light is a problem, get the 700. How are you going to hook it up? I found that most regular sources from a DVD player and or game console will not look that great until you do all of the preliminary adjustments. The biggest caveat vs the 500 for me was the HDMI and combing. I found a workaround for those, but YMMV.

I'm hooking it up to my HD STB through component, and through HDMI to my new Panny S97 player. What did you mean "The biggest caveat vs the 500 for me was the HDMI and combing"?
What is your player?

Originally posted by zxlr8
Lets not jump to conclusions....All of the WMVHD clips I have seen work fine.

WMV-HD clips with DRM have nothing to do with HDCP.

HDCP is a transport encryption standard, for the transport of video and audio data over the HDMI signal wires.

THe DRm on WMV-HD discs (Imax, etc) is a media protection mechanism, between the DVD-ROM disc and DVD-ROM reader.

Rgb. I realize this. I am just indicating that they may have HDCP as well as DRM.

Ahro,
The only time I have seen combing(horizintal lines in bright , upward movement) was whan I was hooked up to my Pioneer Elite DV-47 before I did any flicker adjustment. Now I never see it. One of the reasons might be I only use my htpc to play dvds now. It is upconverted with ffdshow and the picture is really nice. Very filmlike. I watched a movie at my local theater a few weeks ago and Ican not believe I thought that picture was ok. I never see combing from my xbox nor ps2 for some reason. I never see it from my Dish6000 either.(1080i)

Originally posted by AVGadgetBoy
Reason for pumping up red is due to too much blue in NORMAL mode. Green was also increased slightly (+2).

Over the year or so of reading the PJ forums it is apparent that most PJs are deficient in Red because of the the colur spectrum of the UHP bulb that is used. When an analog Broadcast camera (and an LCD panel is in fact driven by an analog voltage) is overdriven into clip we occasionally experience what we call fold-over which shades the picture with whatever colour amp is being overdriven.

Now I'm aware that LCDs can have shading problems and unfortunately I do not have a PJ at this moment to play with this idea but have you considered backing off the Red - since its possible you are overdriving the red amps and decreasing green and blue since the lamp is biased toward that?

Do you have a shading problem when you driving the panels with say a 50 IRE signal or no signal at all?

ted

Follow up on my HDCP compatibility issue.

First let me say that I can now view HD channels from my Charter Communications Cable STB purely through the AE-700's HDMI input without a problem. I have no idea why the "Your HDTV does not support HDCP" message came up several times yesterday and neither did the Panasonic cs rep I spoke with.

(HOWEVER, to be totally thorough on that good news, I cannot state categorically that what Charter Communications Cable is sending to their subscribers is HDCP in the first place. I know I could call them and ask, but, I'm not sure the answer I get from anyone at any cable operation would exactly be the final word on it, if you know what I mean.)

When I spoke with the Panasonic rep yesterday, I asked the same questions that have been raised here about where in the operating instruction booklet it's mentioned that the AE-700 supports HDCP. I particularly wanted to know since I had made an appointment with the cable provider to come out and "fix" the problem and knew I'd get the brush off on expectations of getting HD through my HDMI input UNLESS I could show them in plain language right in the operating instructions that this projector does, indeed, support HDCP.

The Panasonic rep I spoke with yesterday couldn't find a specific section in the operating instructions that flat out said it either, but this is the section that he said makes the case for it supporting HDCP:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Page 30, second bullet point in the gray "Notes" section;
"If using this projector in places such as cafes or hotels to display programs for a commercial purpose or for public presentation, note that if the aspect ratio function is used to change the aspect ratio of the screen picture, you may be infringing the rights of the original copyright owner for that program under copyright protection laws."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uh...yeah. I told the fellow that I could have read that passage a thousand times and I doubt I would have recognized it as the conclusive passage that would tell anyone, much less a cable company rep, that the AE-700 supported HDCP. His response was that the CP part of the HDCP compliance stands for Copy Protection and, sure enough, that passage mentions Copy Protection. Hmm. OK...

Anyway, as an important aside, I also left a message with Projector People last night (Sunday night) about my little pop up message and they got back to me first thing this morning and were prepared to get a three way connection going with Panasonic to solve the problem. Great support, I think. Unfortunately, or fortunately I suppose, the problem seems to have fixed itself (maybe a cable provider issue and not a projector issue..?) and so I thought it would be a waste of everyone's time to set up a three way conversation if I couldn't duplicate the original problem.

However, I still think it's annoying that the operating instruction booklet lists all the many benefits of owning an AE-700 (which there are many for Panasonic to be proud of!) but does NOT mention in plain language that this model supports HDCP. That's a major oversight in cases where the issue may be in dispute from cable/satellite HD providers.

Looks like HDCP issues are popping up around the net.

http://www.avforums.com/frame.html?http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1258675#post1258675

Be prepared for growing pains with HDCP...

Originally posted by crueman
Reaper...TraderGordo,

I was just thinking about your suggestion about changing the dot clock. Will changing this setting possibly affect my picture when playing DVD or when I get high def TV service. XBox will be about 1/2 of the usage of the projector and I'm quite concerned. But I don't want to do anything that would negatively affect the other 1/2 of my usage.

I guess I just don't understand dot clock.

Now that I look closer, I don't thin it will help your xbox issue. In the manual, it says, "PC Only". I take that to mean that it only works on the VGA input or possibly, HDMI... which your Xbox probably isn't using. There is another option called "Clock Phase" which works on the component input. Perhaps you should try that one first.

The dot clock phase adjustment is stated to reduce a striped pattern. The clock phase adjustment is listed directly below that so I am assuming it has the same effect on component signals.

I guess it may affect some other signals coming in on component if you have a switcher. I'd recommend either:

a) Changing it and saving it as a user setup and then switching back to normal settings for other inputs.

or

b) Remembering the original setting and manually setting it back after changing it for the Xbox if it is an issue or resetting the system to defaults.

Of course, this is all just garnered from the manual. I don't even own one of these things... so, don't take my word for it too much :D

reap

Reaper,

Understood. I guess right now I'm hoping that it isn't the projector. It just doesn't make much sense to me that others are hooking up their XBoxes to the component with progressive scan enabled and don't have any issues at all. Why my projector would be fine handling progressive scan from a DVD player and not the XBox sounds strange. I'm starting to think that maybe the problem is my XBox. Maybe I've got some sort of defect when progressive is enabled. I also can't imagine the problem being my XBox High Definition pack. It handles me sending a 480I signal through it w/no issues. Argh. If clock phase doesn't work...method of elimination is all I can do.

Thanks again,
Crueman

I guess try and borrow someone else's xbox and see if its a problem. I've been using my 700 with an xbox with Halo2 over component with no problems.

Though I haven't gotten it to stay in Widescreen mode, only 4/3 mode (ideas anyone ?) even though the xbox is set to Widescreen. Works fine on my other hdtv .

Well, I went ahead and bought a unit from Projector People. They said they only had 12 units left out of 600 they got. Talk about impusle buys, I've only had my AE 500 short time. Hope I did the right thing. Don't know if this is permissible, but if you're interested in my AE500, PM me.

The one thing that concerns me about PP is their return policy - 4hrs use and 7 days. The I pay for return shipping I can understand. I'll be tweaking for more than 4 hrs.

Originally posted by zxlr8
Zoomair, the Sony will not make the Panny look terrible as long as both are adjusted correctly. The big thing for me is the brightness(lumens) from the Sony. That was the dealbreaker for me. That and the fact I owned a L500U before that I was enamored with.
Ahro- This is a tossup, the PQ problems I saw with the AE500 are all but eliminated in the 700. If light is a problem, get the 700. How are you going to hook it up? I found that most regular sources from a DVD player and or game console will not look that great until you do all of the preliminary adjustments. The biggest caveat vs the 500 for me was the HDMI and combing. I found a workaround for those, but YMMV.

hi zxlr8 thanks for your quick reply, ok so the panny isnt a bad choice compared to the sony hs50. i will buy the panny with the cine4home calibration so i hope that it will pay off a little in PQ. the reason i asked about the sony is it quoted 6000:1 contrast and even if that number is 4000:1 it is very much. for example the panny 700 makes a older PJ with 800:1 look bad so i assumed that the sony will make the panny look terrible in terms of punch and depth.

THANKS IN ADVANCE:D

There is a point past which the human brain cannot process higher contrast. I don't recall exactly what that point is, but it is significantly lower than 6000:1.

Like audio, much lower than 20Hz, or higher than 20kHz is not heard.

Heresy Follows:

I've been trying the AE700 out in "DYNAMIC" mode for DVD projection. At about 15 feet and a 120 inch screen width, the picture is wonderfully bright. DYNAMIC ain't so good out of the box, but backing it off by tweaking down brightness, gamma (especially the mid-level "ADVANCED" gamma slider) and contrast controls I've managed to achieve a picture that even the wife (who was against the purchase) says is "brilliant". She's been converted.

While I'm still using my large piece of blackout cloth, a couple of experiments I've tried with a matt gray screen I painted up (about 1-stop attenuation) really make those blacks jump out at you in DYNAMIC, due to its native brightness.

DYNAMIC is a bit of a Frankenstein's monster, but slightly wound back it sure produces stunning, knock-out pictures, even at 120 inches.

hi everyone

THANKS bubbawilly for that quick reply (as i have said this is my first projector so my questions may seem a little dumb:p

let me put it this way, let say a inexperienced PJ user (first projector) comes in a room with the panny vs the sony will the reaction be WOW thats a much better picture(sony) in terms of depth and punch or will the reaction be OK that is a slightly better picture but not day and night difference (hope this makes any sense) if it is the first reaction then maybe it is worth spending the extra money on the sony(even though i am already over my budget:p) but if it is the second reaction the panny is more then enough for me.

any opinions or toughts would be great.

none of these can be tested in gothenburg(Sweden), but i have tested a Z3.

THANKS IN ADVANCE:D

One other question:

How would you guys rate projector purchase from the 3 sources (direct from manufacturer, online dealer, local dealer) in terms of safeness and customer service? Are they all basically the same?

Originally posted by talo
You can pick up the AE700 for less than US$2000. There is a AE700 Powerbuy floating around.

Where at? I can't find it in the Powerbuy forum.

The white flashes I've seen are very brief, quick, and only happen once every couple of hours. When I switch from 480P to 720P on my Panny S97 the flashing becomes rapid. I recently describe it as snow but I meant it was flashing white snow. It was flashing rapidly. To the point where I can still see different parts of the picture but it keeps flashing. The whole screen isn't snowy and there isn't a corner that is snowy either. This only happens when I use my 25ft cable and not the DVD supplied HDMI 6ft cable. I don't think it's my connection because I will try holding the HDMI connector in different positions with different pressure. I even pull out the connector slightly. Nothing improves it. But the 480P works fine. Does anybody have any thoughts?

Originally posted by ahro
I currently have the AE 500 and am thinking of upgrading to the AE700. Is there really a big quality difference in PQ? I do watch with a little ambient light, and that's an issue for me on the AE500.

I read one poster here who said there is a big difference betwen the two, but I'd like to get a few more opinions before I go ahead. Sorry if this has been asked often, but after reading about 40 pages of this thread, it's quite a job to get through the other 100.

BTW I have the Panny S97 player and would go hdmi>hdmi to the display.


Any heip would be appreciated

I upgraded from a 500 to a 700. The 700 has a lot of nice new features. Contrast is improved too. But not night and day.

Originally posted by bnt5
Question about SDE
Is it anyones experience that some movies tend to have more SDE than others? I was watching Spiderman on my Panny700 and noticed some wicked Screendoor action throughout the movie! I also saw some during the movie Drumline. I have a white Blackout cloth screen and up until now SDE has not been a problem. Just wondering....

BTW my sharpness setting is 0, and everything else is pretty much default settings.


Bill

Turn your "sharpness" down a few clicks.
You left "color" at factory "0" ??? Try turning it down a few clicks too. You can always turn it back up if you don't like it.

Here's my take on my recently purchased Panasonic AE700, along with some concluding remarks and comparisons to my Sony 10HT!

1. VERTICAL BANDING - My experience with the AE700 is very similar to many on the AVS Forum. When I first plugged the unit in and when I ran it for the next couple of hours, there was NO evidence of any vertical banding (VB). I then turned off the projector from the remote and left it in standby power for approximately 21 hours.

When I turned the projector back on, the VB was extremely obvious and totally distracting in watching any source data. I let the projector warm up for half an hour and then went to the Service Menu and made a rough adjustment on all three flicker panels for the floor mounting aspect - as many others have reported on AVS, the green panel showed up the flicker most obviously. I made a very careful adjustment of all three flicker panels, turning each up until the flicker could just be noticed, and then down until the flicker could again just be noticed. For each panel, I then set the adjustment number midway between high and low flicker readings. After this adjustment, some very slight VB could be observed on an all gray screen, but it was not really noticeable on most program material. I then turned the projector off with the remote, leaving it in standby for approximately 20 hours.

When I turned it on again, the VB was again reasonably visable on a light gray screen. This time, I followed the same procedure as before, identifying the upper and lower just noticeable flicker levels, and selecting for each of the three colored screens the midpoint number between high and low. Interestingly, the only panel requiring adjustment was the green panel. The result was as previously - the banding could be observed on a gray screen, but was not really objectionable with a variety of picture data. I then left the projector off for 46 hours, again in the standby mode.

Turning the projector on again with the remote, upon immediate examination, the gray screen showed VB, and it was slightly noticeable with regular program material. But after approximately 20 minutes of warm up, the VB faded, and regular program material looked fine.

Many people on AVS Forums have indicated varying issues with VB. Many have said it is not an issue. When it is an issue, it seems to be exacerbated by leaving the projector in standby power.


2. PIXEL MISALIGNMENT - Before saying anything about this, I must note that the Panasonic is placed forward almost to the forward limit of its projection onto my 110 inch Firehawk. Further, it is placed BELOW the non keystone limit of the lens adjustment. The lens adjustment is therefore at the limit of its lower adjustment, and electronic keystone adjustment (6 on the projector's scale) is utilized to secure proper alignment with the screen. Many on the AVS Forum have indicated minimal pixel misalignment if the projector is closer to its center aspect, and mounted further back with more zoom. So my placement is about as bad as you can get.

Close to the top of the screen, left to right, red pixels are off, down, by two pixels; green are up by one pixel; on the left side of the screen, blue is one pixel to the left; on the right top side of the screen, red is to the left by one pixel, and blue is right by 1/2 pixel. Close to the bottom of the screen, pixel misalignment is not more than one pixel in any direction. At 13 feet or so back, I cannot notice any of this EXCEPT the red two pixel misalignment toward the top, and then only with sharply delineated objects containing red.


3. SCAN LINES - I have watched a few minutes of DVD on this projector, with the DVD signal processed by DVDO IScan Pro and the signal fed to the projector by component. A quick reaction to DVD thus shown is that all is fine - despite the keystone adjustment, the picture is sharp and no obvious processing artifacts show up.

But most of my use of the projector has been with Time Warner Cable's 1080i HD feed, including network HD programming. I was terribly distracted by very short bursts of scan lines with such programming. These scan lines may have been of no more duration than one frame (or a field, before the projector's processor caught hold?), but boy were they objectionable. They seemed to occur when there was a transition from a bright to dark picture or vice versa. With further observation, it appears that these distracting artifacts only show up when the HD feed is transmitting 4x3 uprezed standard definition commercials. Last night I watched two hour long network HD programs recorded on a PVR (except the commercials) and don't recall any of the terrible scan lines. It is notable that I have not seen ANY negative comments on AVS Forum about HD scan lines. I have seen other references to scan lines showing up with this projector with other applications.


4. GOOD NEWS! - The good news is that this is an absolutely splendid projector for the price. The apparent color fidelity (color balance and color intensity required NO adjustment with AVIA setup), the measured fidelity to DVD detail (even with the pixel misalignment), the smooth screen lack of obvious pixels, the ease of setup and operation, and the handling of contrast, even without further measurements and optical filtering, all make this a winner.


COMPARISON TO MY SONY 10HT - This is obviously not a fair comparison, since the Sony cost 3 1/2 times as much, and is almost four years old (and had been on the market even longer than that). But I have been very satisfied with the Sony (which has been subjected to SMART ONE of Steve Smallcombe, and has been modified with a red optical filter to improve black level). I purchased the Panasonic in hope that it might be brighter, and that its black levels would be superior to the Sony 10HT - as you can see, the only major issue I have with the four year old Sony was its light output and its poor black level. Its gray "black" level and shadow detail in pictures showed a green shift which could not be corrected with adjustment of Gamma levels, but I did not find the extent of this discrepancy disturbing, and no one else noticed it except one other home theater fan!

With the Sony, I have NEVER seen any VB. With the Sony, I have never seen scan lines, momentary or otherwise. I have never seen any objectionable pixel artifacts with the Sony that were not apparently the result of the source material (ditto with the Panasonic).

As is the case with the Panasonic, the Sony is mounted at its extreme placement parameter, with some keystone adjustment. The maximum pixel misalignment is one pixel, and overall in quantity, is about 1/2 of the Panasonic. The screen door effect at half of my usual viewing distance is quite obvious with the Sony, but not at all with the Panasonic, of course.

Even though the Sony is well focused, it never had shown the 5+MHz signal from AVIA as a series of sharp lines. The Panasonic shows these lines in sharp, black detail! But by the way, I don't find the Sony fuzziness on the high end detail objectionable.

That is all I have to say at this point, except to restate that the Panasonic is quite an awesome projector for the price, though not the replacement for my Sony that I had hoped for re brightness and black level.

AussieBob:

Can you expand on the color adjustments you made for Dynamic mode. Did you still utilize a filter ?

Also what paint did you use for the grey. Im starting to think i may go this route so any input is appreciated.

Sonyuser - nice report! Thanks for the observations.

AussieBob - what did you decide to do with the Sharpness control in Dynamic mode? There is heavy edge enhancement going on in that mode.

Let me lay a $2000 bet on the table: The HDCP problem is due to the cable box. It almost always is.

This projector is HDCP compliant. A bug perhaps? Doubtful, but possible.

No HDCP compliance? Not possible.

Ben,

The settings vary from film to film. But here are a few basics:

Color: turned down to from -4 to -8.

Low gamma: 0, Mid gamma: +2 or +3. High gamma: 0.

Contrast, usually muted, can vary anything from -2 (rare) to +6, but not out of that range. Brightness -1 to -4 (otherwise blacks - already crushed a little by DYNAMIC mode - really do clip too far).

R, G and B brightness levels turned down, with Blue a little more negative than the other colors to take out some of the extra bluishness in DYNAMIC mode. It's a "suck-it-and-see" kinda thing. It all depends on how you like your pictures.

Any other tweaks I've used have been "select on test". The best advice I can give is to try it yourself and see what you can come up with. It seems that DYNAMIC mode has the "internal" contrast and brightness offsets set right up at maximum (whereas other modes have them tweaked back a bit). The sliders adjust against those internal presets. So, adjusting brightness and contrast will only bring these parameters back towards a more "normal" looking picture. But somewhere in the middle of "NORMAL" and "DYNAMIC" modes is a gray area suitable for exploration, and that exploration yields interesting results.

No, I wasn't using the filter this time. I was going for maximum brightness and contrast without wrecking the picture. The results were interesting and very watchable. Every now and again I'd switch back to CINEMA-1 mode to check out my blacks (i.e. whether I'd lost or crushed any during the tweaking) and, yes, it was more "film like", but way too dim, compared to DYNAMIC.

The gray paint I used was a mixture of 4 parts Rustcote "Aluminium", 2 parts flat white and one part black (enamel paint, unfortunately). Rolled onto some MDA I bought from the local hardware store for experimental purposes. Problem is, it's a bit directional, with about a stop decline in brightness at the edges (that means, with the centre at one stop down already, due to the native "grayness" of this mix, the edges are 2 stops down from my matt white blackout material screen). It's only a 4x3 foot sheet, so shuffling it around various corners of a 10 foot screen it's hard to tell for sure. In the centre it's brilliant, but at the edges??? I'd need to paint a whole 10 foot screen with the stuff to really find out, and I don't think that would pass the Rolling Pin test (or the "oh, bugger this for a joke!" test for that matter). I might try to get some powdered aluminium and mix it with matt white acrylic, as the enamel concoction still has a semi-gloss sheen to it. It seems to me the trick is to have the metal particles doing some of the reflecting for you, so you need a lot in the mix. Just mixing it with mostly white paint buries the metal. A matt finish is what's needed, so I guess the only way to do this is to mix it myself until 'Er Indoors gets sick of the paint tins outside the back door.

Back to rreality, the flat white blackout sheet is pretty good. IT might just be fun to see if I can do something better, now that I (think I) have "tamed" DYNAMIC.

And for the rest of youse out there...

Oh, you can fart around for hours with this projector. The initial buyer's exuberance is passing and I'm finally starting to think it's a great toy for watching movies, rather than whingeing about VB, peekaboo, SDE, cables, digital standards, complaining about the zoom and the shift features, white flashes, power-on power-off quibbles, cropping disasters, HD receivers, perfect 6500k balance and the like. I can understand that some of these issues need discussion, but it seems to be getting obsessive here. Well, that's my opinion anyway. I really enjoyed my first real night of just watching movies on the darn thing and not giving a fig about the very minor problems the projector has.

Whadda ya want for $2k? Sleigh bells?

Whadda ya want for $2k? Sleigh bells?

I thought this unit came with all the "BELLS" and whistles??

Question: Do certain movies have more Screen Door issues than others? Someone check out Spiderman and tell me if they see screen door especially in the white scenes with explosions, and should I be concerned about getting rid of these (aka will this be a continuing prob?)


Bill

Ok....ANOTHER follow up on the HDCP compatibility issue!

I turned off the AE-700, left the (HD) cable box on and went out of the house for a couple of hours. Came back, turned on the projector and BINGO! there's the same dreaded on screen message from before:

DVI ALERT
Your HDTV does not support HDCP.
Please use the YPrPb component connection to watch TV.

Otherwise, there's no picture, no sound, nothing from Charter Communications HD box (a new one the installers gave me to replace the old one this afternoon).

I know I could probably make this work again by going through the same tedious process of unplugging the cable box to reboot, waiting 3 minutes, plugging it back in, waiting several minutes for the time/clock to reapear on the box and then turning the power on...but am I really going to have to do this every time I shut down the projector or every couple of hours whichever comes first?

Don't know. Too tired of it all right now to chase it any further so I'm going back to the old tried and true COMPONENT input and be done with it! I KNOW that one 'sticks' even if I turn off the cable box, the projector and everything else.

Too bad. I was beginning to like the PQ I was getting through the HDMI input with this projector. Maybe I'll contact Projector People tomorrow and take them up on that three way conference call with Panasonic to see if there's a real fix for this or whether the AE-700 truly supports HDCP or not.

At this point, no matter what the Panasonic operating instruction booklet, ProjectorCentral and Projector People do or do not say about it, I'd have to say that any projector that gets an on screen message from the HD cable provider that says "Your HDTV does not support HDCP" and then doesn't display the picture....well, doesn't support HDCP.

Still an STB problem IMO. The AE500 supports HDCP, why wouldn't the AE700?

Is it really the 700 or the Scientific Atlantic Explorer 8000HD? If this problem persisted across a couple of different models/brands besides the 8000HD then it might be fair to say the 700 may be at fault.

Sonyuser,

You really would do well to eliminate any use of keystone adjustment.

HDCP compatibility.

The installer did tell me they were going to be upgrading to an Explorer 8300HD in a couple of months. I'll probably wait to see how those work out.

Still, the fact that the AE-700's operating instruction booklet says nothing about it supporting HDCP, combined with a pop up message via an HD provider signal SAYING that it doesn't support HDCP and the fact that it can't seem to hold that signal through it's HDMI input for more than a couple of hours are not points in Panasonic's favor on this issue. And it pains me to say it.

I think for all practical purposes, most AE-700 purchasers/users would assume by now that the unit does NOT support HDCP through it's HDMI input.

But I'm on this message board, so it can be concluded that I'll be a lot more stubborn about pursuing this than most.
:D

Anyone have the 700 hooked up to a HTPC with a HDCP compliant out and notice this? While it is possible the 700 is the root cause, it would be beneficial to try some structured testing of devies to see if ti can be narrowed to either a class of devices or a brand or model.

We need a process of elimination. We also need some AE 500 users to describe their experience. I don't remember hearing about "white flash" and HDCP compliance issues with the AE 500.

I'm really sick. I spent days on researching HDMI and it's flaws and religiously studying the manual, and I'm not even an owner yet, the funds on the bank account don't match the price of the equipment! (yet)

Anyway, based on what I know so far, I would think that a firmware update (if and when it's available) should be able to solve the problem. The "symptoms" sound like a bug to me, something that can be fixed with an update...

I would love to bring a quick outside blitz to that ugly QB in the pocket, throwing all those Hail Mary's and screens!

Vocabulary:
outside blitz = firmware update
ugly QB = bug
pocket = projector
Hail Mary = white flash
screen = no signal

On a side note, would eating colorful vegetables reduce the perceptions of the white flashes?

Originally posted by Nolan Cromwell
We need a process of elimination. We also need some AE 500 users to describe their experience. I don't remember hearing about "white flash" and HDCP compliance issues with the AE 500.

The AE 500 is definitely compliant with HDCP, as is the 3250 STB box. In New York City at least the 8000HD DVI out is NOT enabled on Time Warner boxes and probably never will be because the 8300 is due in a couple of months. Either the boxes are not enabled or the handshake takes some time to lock in, try flippping between inputs and see if it locks on after a while. Either that or DVI out on the 8000HD has not been inplemented on the box. On the AE500 I've run the 3250 box as well as the Panny S97 player via DVI and HDMI>DVI and it works fine.

Originally posted by hitchfan
Ok....ANOTHER follow up on the HDCP compatibility issue!


At this point, no matter what the Panasonic operating instruction booklet, ProjectorCentral and Projector People do or do not say about it, I'd have to say that any projector that gets an on screen message from the HD cable provider that says "Your HDTV does not support HDCP" and then doesn't display the picture....well, doesn't support HDCP.

It could be that Panasonic pulled another RP62/RP82 on the AE700- i.e. Panasonic put a Faroudja chip in the RP62 and RP82 DVD players, but wasn't allowed to say so on the product or manual, in order to save money in licensing fees on the Faroudja/DCDi logo.

Perhaps they put the HDCP chip(s) in the AE700, but to save money, don't pay for the right to use the HDCP logo (?)

Someone could always ask Cine4home, rgb. They opened their unit.

Someone mentioned they quit tweaking for an evening, and just enjoyed some movies... my daugther and I did just that night before last. Watched the Ultimate Fighting Championship in HD. Man, the MGM and surround sound cranked up, and the beautiful picture via the Panny, what an experience :)

Originally posted by ahro
Well, I went ahead and bought a unit from Projector People. They said they only had 12 units left out of 600 they got. Talk about impusle buys, I've only had my AE 500 short time. Hope I did the right thing. Don't know if this is permissible, but if you're interested in my AE500, PM me.

The one thing that concerns me about PP is their return policy - 4hrs use and 7 days. The I pay for return shipping I can understand. I'll be tweaking for more than 4 hrs.

Just some advice ...
Take your PT-L500 and reset it to factory defaults.
Put it side by side with the AE700U when it arrives.
You are now looking at the base upgrade/improvements from the 500 to 700. Tweaking with obviously improve the picture ... but it would equally improve the picture over both.

Without ANY tweaking ... anyone short of an obsessive-compulsive should be able to know within 4 hours if this projector is worthy of being an upgrade in your eyes and opinion with them side by side.

Originally posted by rogo
Let me lay a $2000 bet on the table: The HDCP problem is due to the cable box. It almost always is.

This projector is HDCP compliant. A bug perhaps? Doubtful, but possible.

No HDCP compliance? Not possible.

Yikes, if I had the dough I'd take your bet Rogo.
With all due respect ... I think you are confusing IMPROBABLE with IMPOSSIBLE.

"No HDCP compliance? Not probable."

I spoke with 2 people from Panasonic last night and neither believed the unit was HDCP compliant. This was in addition to the Tech Support Rep as Panny whom I spoke with the other day that said it wasn't.

I am remaining on the case and open-minded until I hear definatively and in writing that it is or is not. But the facts are building against it as dumb as that sounds.

Originally posted by tvted
....what we call fold-over which shades the picture with whatever colour amp is being overdriven.

.. have you considered backing off the Red - since its possible you are overdriving the red amps and decreasing green and blue since the lamp is biased toward that?

Do you have a shading problem when you driving the panels with say a 50 IRE signal or no signal at all?

ted

Sorry ted, but I'm lacking the knowledge in this technical aspect you've mentioned. What's a 50 IRE signal? If I don't feed any signal, it'll show either a blue screen or black screen.

Originally posted by JimP
AVGadgetBoy

Your color uniformity issue may be caused by your somewhat unorthodox installation. Before sending the unit back, flip it right side up and move it such that its centered on the screen. Do you still have color uniformity problems in this position??

Thanks for the suggestion, JimP.

I tried placement in all possible directions and observed that the non-uniformity barely improve (even with lens shift centred there is still visible non-uniformity).

More importantly, I observed that this color uniformity problem is more sensitive to zooming, and although mid-zoom yields the least non-uniformity, it is still rather visible to me.

Today, for over an hour, I tried different ways of menu-tuning the color to neutralise the inherent blue cast. I found that I could use -2 for color temp to achieve a very warm image (too warm), but then raise blue (and green slightly) to counter the overly-warm temp. Doing so means that I do not need to raise red a lot, and this seem to help lessen the pinkish corner significantly.

I think I can live with this setting, as I can't bear to be w/o this projector even for a week just to return to dealer for exchange (which in any case may not result in a better set returned, or worst still, a set with dead pixels!)

Am I in luv with my panny??

Originally posted by AVGadgetBoy
Do you have a shading problem when you driving the panels with say a 50 IRE signal or no signal at all?Sorry ted, but I'm lacking the knowledge in this technical aspect you've mentioned. What's a 50 IRE signal? If I don't feed any signal, it'll show either a blue screen or black screen. I think he means using a 50-IRE test pattern from something like an Avia DVD.

Originally posted by TheFerret
Someone could always ask Cine4home, rgb. They opened their unit.

I just checked the cine4home AE700 review on their webpage, and they claim it is HDCP compliant, but it appears that this is just an assumption.

There still is no proof.

Originally posted by Ericbres
Yikes, if I had the dough I'd take your bet Rogo.
With all due respect ... I think you are confusing IMPROBABLE with IMPOSSIBLE.

"No HDCP compliance? Not probable."

I spoke with 2 people from Panasonic last night and neither believed the unit was HDCP compliant. This was in addition to the Tech Support Rep as Panny whom I spoke with the other day that said it wasn't.

I am remaining on the case and open-minded until I hear definatively and in writing that it is or is not. But the facts are building against it as dumb as that sounds.

*FINAL UPDATE ON THE HDCP COMPLAINT ISSUE*

Rogo would be $2000 richer had anyone taken his bet.
Per the Design and Engineering Group at the Panasonic factory (through a translator :D ) the HDMI input on the AE700U IS HDCP compliant. The reasoning behind us not seeing it anywhere in print is because they assumed we were all knowledgable enough to understand that essencially ALL HDMI connections are inherently HDCP compliant by design.

Case Closed. (insert Law&Order "boing-boing" sound here)

Edit - By the way, my apologies, this was all part of a verbal phone message. If I had something in print, I would certainly share. Unfortunatly you'll have to take my word for it.

AVGadgetBoy

When you say that you'd hate to be without your panny for a week, I know exactly what you mean.

It does sound like something else is wrong with your projector. As much as you would hate to, it might be a good idea to return it for another one.

However, there's still no answer to the "white flash" problems...

I have an answer for the white flash problem. Feed the projector the exact native 1280x720p when possible. I never see any problems now.

Originally posted by zxlr8
I have an answer for the white flash problem. Feed the projector the exact native 1280x720p when possible. I never see any problems now.

Good catch- it could be a scaler/video processor issue, particularly if the flashes occur with 480i, 480p, and 1080i inputs (which have all been mentioned on these forums).

Sending 720p bypasses most (all?) of the scaling and/or video processing.

Hello everyone, I've first got to say that I think I'm officially addicted to this forum?!?!? :) I'm a newbie and I really appreciate all the valuable input from all the users. I think I'm about to pull the trigger on this puppy but I wanted to ask if the recent flashes are strictly from the HDMI port or are they visible on the component imputs as well?

Also, how much better is the HDMI port (in regards to clarity) than component?

Lastly, I'm gonna need to buy some good cables for a 25' run I need to make. Any suggestions besides the botique ones?

Thanks!

Hello All:

I am torn between waiting for the Sony HS-51 and Sharp XVZ-2000, or taking the plunge on the Panny AE700 now. It would be a whole lot easier if any of the local A/V specialty shops had the bloody thing on display, but none do.

Are any of you guys located in the Chicago area for me to take a look at the panny in person, or at least point me to a local dealer that not only has it in stock, but on display?

Any help would be appreciated.

Tony

I don't know of anyone who displays this stuff but projector packages dot com and they are in Arizona. I'm in Florida and didn't have a chance to look at it. It wanted to see the PLV-Z3 and 700U together. Now I am upset with VB.

Ericbres,
Thankyou! HDMI was not only to put digital audio and video together BUT to have HDCP incorporated. It comes together whether you like it or not. This was decided when HDMI came out. (Hollywood loved it) DVI, when started, wasn't HDCP and you could "copy" digital info. I'm guessing the people with the $$$ make all the rules. HDMI IS HDCP compliant.

Originally posted by wiredman
Ericbres,
Thankyou! HDMI was not only to put digital audio and video together BUT to have HDCP incorporated. It comes together whether you like it or not. This was decided when HDMI came out. (Hollywood loved it) DVI, when started, wasn't HDCP and you could "copy" digital info. I'm guessing the people with the $$$ make all the rules. HDMI IS HDCP compliant.

I don't think HDMI necessarily implies HDCP. From

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/faq.asp

"What is HDCP?
HDCP is a content protection technology available for use in connection with HDMI that was developed by Intel Corporation (with input from Silicon Image). HDCP is not licensed by HDMI Licensing, LLC, but by Digital Content Protection, LLC (a subsidiary of Intel). The rates for HDCP are an annual fee of fifteen thousand dollars (US$15,000) plus a per unit fee of: US$0.005 per "device key" purchased (to enable encryption/decryption). Licensing information is available at www.digital-cp.com "

That said, I don't doubt what Ericbres was told in his phone message. Also, in practice HDMI and HDCP are probably always paired together, but in theory, they don't need to be (as I read the excerpt from HDMI.org above).

RGB,
Okay.......point well taken.
HDMI is taking over DVI. With that said, and all new devices that are going HDCP for the reason of "copying", it makes NO sense for the 700 not to be. Panny wouldn't be making a good move if it's not HDCP. Does anyone have proof that they're HDMI (any HDMI product) isn't HDCP? Real proof??

Originally posted by zxlr8
I have an answer for the white flash problem. Feed the projector the exact native 1280x720p when possible. I never see any problems now.

I have been with my AE700 for a couple of weeks now, outputting mostly thru HDMI. I haven't seen any white flashes but have only been outputting exact 1280x720 from my ATI video card in the HTPC. (collaboratory evidence for the eventual Law and Order episode this thread becomes?)

Personally, I am not sure the HDMI is actually better than the component output from my DVD player. I have calibrated both sources with AVIA and the color using the component look better. I am not a guru here so perhaps there is still some tinkering that needs to be done to optimize the picture for either input. The sources for both are DVD or a ripped DVD on the HTPC so the sources are pretty much the same.
Also, the pixel cropping on the HDMI input still annoy me to no end. I feel like I am getting robbed on my full 720p investment and it makes my desktop harder to navigate.

hi everyone

now i have paid for the calibrated(cine4home) panny 700 + the panny s97. after alot of questions about PJ and after reading almost everyday on this forum i decided on the panny, so thanks for all the great information and replies to my sometimes stupid questions:p but as i have mentioned this is my first projector so i don't really know what to expect (other then those i have seen in stores).

it would be nice if someone with a panny 700 could zoom to max (meaning using 2.0x) and see if there is a noticable decrease in PQ (as i have to use 2.0x to fill my screen).

THANKS IN ADVANCE and i will post my review of the cine4home calibrated panny when it arrives:D

ZoomAir,

Are you located in the states? Just curious if people in the states were considering this approach.

reaper

Originally posted by DV8

Also, the pixel cropping on the HDMI input still annoy me to no end. I feel like I am getting robbed on my full 720p investment and it makes my desktop harder to navigate.

Others have asked about a firmware fix for this.

As the AE700 has no serial or USB port, how would a firmware fix be accomplished? Would a return to the service center be required? Or can the HDMI port accept a firmware update from a PC and/or DVD set top player with HDMI port?

Originally posted by reaper
ZoomAir,

Are you located in the states? Just curious if people in the states were considering this approach.

reaper

hi reaper, HEHE no i am actually quite far from the states, i live in gothenburg Sweden:p i have ordered the panny from a German company that have connections with cine4home. so they offer cine4home calibrations for those that want them except in the case of the Z3, there the calibration is part of the price because they think that the Z3 performs so much better after the calibration compared to an uncalibrated Z3 so they decided to include it in the price. i paid about $70-80 dollars extra for the calibration on the panny.

i dont know if it is unclear about the calibration. it is not like you get a calibration kit from cine4home, it is actually cine4home that performes the calibration before they ship it to you. this means they perform the calibration under there circumstances, so it is not calibrated for your particular setup. but it is still an improvmeant over an uncalibrated PJ. i have asked the dealer if it is a noticable diffrance, and he replied that it was quite a big diffrence (specially with the Z3) so i hope it was money well spended:D

Originally posted by hitchfan
HDCP compatibility.

The installer did tell me they were going to be upgrading to an Explorer 8300HD in a couple of months. I'll probably wait to see how those work out.

Still, the fact that the AE-700's operating instruction booklet says nothing about it supporting HDCP, combined with a pop up message via an HD provider signal SAYING that it doesn't support HDCP and the fact that it can't seem to hold that signal through it's HDMI input for more than a couple of hours are not points in Panasonic's favor on this issue. And it pains me to say it.

I think for all practical purposes, most AE-700 purchasers/users would assume by now that the unit does NOT support HDCP through it's HDMI input.

But I'm on this message board, so it can be concluded that I'll be a lot more stubborn about pursuing this than most.
:D

Ah no. Sometimes when I am loading a HD channel, it will default for a moment saying this HDCP is not available on my system. Then it quickly loads never to appear again. From what I can see via my HDMI connection, it works via Cablevision's Scientific Atlanta 4200HD box.

Can we end this speculation now?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by hitchfan
[B]HDCP compatibility.

Can't we all get along? And talk about something else.

Yes, talk about this:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=470777




Stew (shameless solicitor of input)

Originally posted by Ericbres
*FINAL UPDATE ON THE HDCP COMPLAINT ISSUE*

Rogo would be $2000 richer had anyone taken his bet.
Per the Design and Engineering Group at the Panasonic factory (through a translator :D ) the HDMI input on the AE700U IS HDCP compliant. The reasoning behind us not seeing it anywhere in print is because they assumed we were all knowledgable enough to understand that essencially ALL HDMI connections are inherently HDCP compliant by design.

Case Closed. (insert Law&Order "boing-boing" sound here)

Edit - By the way, my apologies, this was all part of a verbal phone message. If I had something in print, I would certainly share. Unfortunatly you'll have to take my word for it.

Thanks for the research. I am not even a little surprise to learn this, but I appreciate you checking into it.

I want to add that no CE mfr. will build a CE product with HDMI that isn't also HDCP compliant.

I have pretty much decided to purchase a Panny 700 at this point but unable to make the purchase for some personal/logistical reasons.

Anyway, my question is what is the history of some other"hot" in the market projectors where it seems that people are buying them left/right?

Do they go out of stock after a couple months where you have to be on a long wait list, do they increase the price on same model year or both?

Thanks all....my best case scenario is a purchase order around Christmas time.

Sounds good

HDMI is the interface. HDCP is the software. I think people are getting it confused. HDMI supports HDCP, but doesn't contain it.

Look at the HDMI FAQ (http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/faq.asp) it's sounds like this.

HDMI is backwards compatible with DVI. DVI doesn't necessarily contain HDCP. Moving forward, native HDMI devices inherently have HDCP. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I get from it.

Update: Sounds like it's almost stupid to NOT have HDCP support:
If the Adopter implements HDCP content protection as set forth in the HDMI Specification, then the royalty rate is further reduced by one cent (US $.01) per unit sold, for a lowest rate of four cents (.04) per unit. Adopters must license HDCP separately from Digital Content Protection, LLC, an Intel subsidiary. Please see www.digital-cp.com for details.

So HDCP is part of the HDMI specifcation, but not required.

I've had the AE700 running for a couple of weeks now. Rough environment is a 118" Carada Brilliant White, 21 foot throw from a shelf mount. Speaking from a 'newbie' point of view, the experience has been excellent so far.

Can I see screen door? Yes, but only if I get a lot closer than I'm likely to.

VB? Yes again, but not often and not severe. I'm not obsessing over it or looking for any tweaks to minimize it.

Contrast ratio? Acceptable, about par with my 1st-gen Samsung 5065 50" DLP monitor. (IMHO, this should continue as the main R&D thrust for LCD projectors. Not that I "know" anything really, just my opinion)

Ease-of-use? Like falling off a spinning log. Just run the auto-setup on the HDMI input before screaming too loudly, and use the Avia disk conservatively.

Native 720p from an Nvidia card looks pretty good, although the auto-iris does get confused a bit when the projector is used as a desktop display. It IS missing a few pixels around the edges, but it's not as severe as the overscan on my 5065.

Usage in high ambient light? Better than I expected. My wife watches it constantly with the track lights on in the rear of the room. (she's more tolerant of this than I am, however)

Viewing cone with the Carada BW material? Don't worry about it. Very little visible degradation at any reasonable viewing angle. In fact, the viewing cone is much better both vertically and horizontally than the 5065 DLP RPTV or the venerable old 60" Hitachi Ultravision CRT RPTV.

Does it compare to a $20K CRT projector? Nope, but it's a darn sight better than I was expecting and plenty good enough for my current uses. I like it a lot and my wife LOVES it, which means she can use it without my assistance and is thrilled with the 'home theater' aspect of home theater. Huge screen, opportunity to sew drapes, invite people over, etc.

Terrific bang for the buck. If your expectations are realistic, you'll be pleasantly surprised.

--jim

I thought the auto setup was only on the VGA input, not the HDMI?

Here's another dumb question. I am replacing my AE300 with the AE700 and am wondering if I should use the same ceiling mounting location. Based on the throw distance calculators, I can fill my screen from the present location, but I'm practically at 1X zoom. Would I be better off (from a pictur quality standpoint) moving the projector back so that I'm at the middle of the zoom range? Or should I just swap them out and leave it at that?

Thanks,
Jason

I thought auto-setup was only used for the PC input... how did you use it for the HDMI input? What was the result, less overscan or correcting color?

Originally posted by jbarber
Ease-of-use? Like falling off a spinning log. Just run the auto-setup on the HDMI input before screaming too loudly, and use the Avia disk conservatively.

Originally posted by xframe88
I thought the auto setup was only on the VGA input, not the HDMI?

You're right, sorry. I originally had the PC hooked up via DVI-HDMI then moved it to the VGA input.

--jim

Originally posted by jbarber
my wife LOVES it, which means she can use it without my assistance


First mistake.




Stew

More HDCP compatibility...or not.

Conflicting tech info aside, the greater oversight is that Panasonic didn't just settle the whole thing by simply stating in their operating instruction booklet that This Unit Supports HDCP. Four words.

Where this becomes a big issue (and where I feel Panasonic dropped the ball on behalf of the consumer on this) is not in whether WE are smart enough to assume that HDMI is "the same as" HDCP, but whether HD cable supplier personnel will stop pursuing a solution to what very likely IS their problem and not YOURS when a pop up message from their HD signal tells them that "Your HDTV does not support HDCP".

Now, if all future pop up messages from all future HD providers will be indicating that "Your HDTV does not support "HDMI" ", then Panasonic has got us all covered just fine right in the booklet and there's no real wiggle room for our cable/satellite providers to drag their feet on fine tuning their system.

But for now, my cable company is looking at their pop up message and are siding with the assumption that MY "HDTV does not support HDCP" and that there is nothing wrong with their STB, signal or DVI output. Short of logging onto ProjectorCentral to show them the specs posted there, I have nothing in writing from Panasonic to dispute my cable supplier so, as far as they're concerned, the case is closed.

If, as mentioned here, Panasonic was perhaps trying to skirt a licensing detail by omitting the actual letters HDCP in their literature, I think they could have at least used the words High Definition Copy Protection somewhere within the same sentence as the word Supports in a way that could reasonably be taken as evidence to a skeptical third party that it does support high definition copy protection.

But they didn't.

Hi
I just received my 700 last Thursday and all I can say is WOW. I can not find a fault with it. And Im not going to try. This is an upgrade from an old sharp unit


The project is that good I am wondering if I need to upgrade my sources.
Im useing a component cable and a toshibha sd5200 dvd player
and also pay TV ( in australia yhis is standard def (Backlands heyLOL )

should I upgrade my source , Is ther any way of using my PC to upscale???
do 720P dvd player make much difference through this project



Again If your thinking of this projector all I can say is WOW

Originally posted by hitchfan
More HDCP compatibility...or not.


According to

http://www.siimage.com/products/sii9993.asp

and

http://www.siimage.com/products/sii9031.asp

HDCP decrypting is built into these Silicon Image receiver chips.

I PM'd the cine4home guys to ask them to report the HDMI receiver chip (make, model number, rev) used in the AE700. It may or may not be one of these Silicon Image IC's.

If someone wants to email them separately, go ahead.

My hunch is that most/all HDMI chips include HDCP when manufactured- i.e. it comes along for the ride "for free" from a functional perspective. However, in order to display the HDCP logo on your product, you need to pay the tithe to the IP holders.

I would speculate that some clever MBA at Panasonic figured they could save the HDCP licensing fees but use the free HDCP functionality that was built into the HDMI circuits.

Are you happier with the VGA hookup and output compared to HDMI? What are the up and down sides with using VGA? I know you can get true 1:1 pixel mapping on VGA, does it also reduce overscan on DVD playback and other sources?

I'm considering a switch to VGA, but before I purchase a cable, I would want more input... TraderGordo, what is your opinion since you switched?

Originally posted by jbarber
You're right, sorry. I originally had the PC hooked up via DVI-HDMI then moved it to the VGA input.

--jim

hi everyone

it would be great if someone with the panny 700 could perform this little test so that i can get an answer on the ZOOM VS PQ question.

use full zoom 2.0x to fill the screen and then move the projector back-wards so that you can use less then 2.0x (for example 1.4x) to fill the same screen and then see if there is a noticeable difference. i know that this require someone to have a mobile PJ that he/she can move back-wards and some time but it would really be NICE if someone could test this out.

this would really help me out beacuse as it is now i have to use 2.0x but i am able to put the projector a little further back but this would put it in a very "bad" place so i rather not put it there (i have just ordered the panny so i cant test this out my self).

THANKS IN ADVANCE:D

Jim, it'll be a matter of 6-9 months when your newbie-ism changes to videophile and you start constantly noticing what you will then consider to be annoying flaws. This is the first sign of upgrade-itis. Its also the first sign that your wife will show strong concerns for your 'hobby' and talk with friends about committing you when you start looking at more pricey projectors. Before you know it, this time next year you will be salivating over the new 1080P VB-less products that are double the price of your current toy.

Originally posted by Milehigh
Are you happier with the VGA hookup and output compared to HDMI? What are the up and down sides with using VGA? I know you can get true 1:1 pixel mapping on VGA, does it also reduce overscan on DVD playback and other sources?

I'm considering a switch to VGA, but before I purchase a cable, I would want more input... TraderGordo, what is your opinion since you switched?

VGA/RGB analog inputs pluses/minuses:

+ Highest quality analog connection
+ Supports nearly infinite resolution/refresh rate/timing combinations vs. component
+ Can be as sharp as DVI when 1:1 pixel mapped (easy on AE700)
+ No overscan
+ NO RF noise if used with good quality RGB DB15 cable
+ Matches LCD panel's RGB colorspace (no component-> RGB transcoding)
+ No copy protection encryption
+ High quality long cables not too expensive
+ Low cost, good quality, low loss KVM switches can be used for multiple input switching (much cheaper to add switch than HDMI/DVI currently)

- Moving forward, fewer source devices have RGB outputs.
- RGB analog outputs on source devices may be disabled in the future due to copy protection issues
- HDMI with HDCP will be required to view commercial HD DVD releases.
- Adds D/A A/D step

Originally posted by Milehigh
Are you happier with the VGA hookup and output compared to HDMI? What are the up and down sides with using VGA? I know you can get true 1:1 pixel mapping on VGA, does it also reduce overscan on DVD playback and other sources?

I'm considering a switch to VGA, but before I purchase a cable, I would want more input... TraderGordo, what is your opinion since you switched?

I never switched, I haven't tried HDMI yet. Since no one has posted a tweak to eliminate overscan on HDMI, I may never try HDMI with the AE700 (why bother? I know I won't like it if I can't eliminate overscan). By the time I upgrade, quality long run HDMI cables will be cheaper.

As it stands now, I think the VGA input looks great, and the "auto" feature on the AE700 works great. See my post on page 1 of the tweaks thread for more info:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4606637#post4606637

Originally posted by Rgb
VGA/RGB analog inputs pluses/minuses:
- Adds D/A A/D step In the context of this thread, yes. In the context of my current projector (CRT) its a DA-only process. :)

I would add that some would also consider 5xBNC for RGBHV transport is bulky, but I do not see it as a problem.

If you can't use VGA to view HDCP content, aren't you watching on borrowed time?

Maybe, maybe not. It all depends on how law & orderly you are. LOL

Originally posted by ZoomAir

THANKS IN ADVANCE and i will post my review of the cine4home calibrated panny when it arrives:D

Could you or any1 else post the settings of that cine4home calibrated panny, (if the settings is not made default (0) in a cine4home way) ?

At least one step of DA/AD can be avoided if you SDI modify a DVD player and use it with an iScan HD. All very very expensive compared to using a Panasonic S97 for example though. Does the S97 have VGA output?

I do have a $50 standalone DVD player with RGBHV output.

Originally posted by movadelic
Could you or any1 else post the settings of that cine4home calibrated panny, (if the settings is not made default (0) in a cine4home way) ?

I can't understand why so many of you continue on this line. The settings are completely dependent on the individual projector and the specific filter which was chosen for this specific projector.

I am VERY satisfied with my cine4home calibrated AE700 and I have also just sprung for a Denon 3910.

I do suffer from the flashes mentioned elsewhere and some VB.

Robert, what source(s) was (were) used for your AE700 calibration? Are you going to be passing your video through that Denon? If so, you 'may' find it necessary, then again you may not, to recalibrate.

I think most people are looking for a starting point in their AE700 calibration andnot trying to exactly mimic someone else's settings. Its nice to know which ballpark to stand in, and then find your way to your seat.

Yes, the settings will be different for each projector, but the filter will probably be the same for a projector model. My HS10 uses a CC40R, most people who have calibrated this projector either use a CC40R or a CC30R. I can't imagine cine4home selecting a different filter for each projector that comes in, simply because they are mostly adjusting for the characteristics of the bulb and not the lcd panels.

With this in mind could someone who has a calibrated 700 from cine4home please let the rest of us (especially us in the USA/Canada who can't have cine4home calibrate our projectors) know what filter they are using? It will save many of us time and money calibrating it ourselves.

Thanks!

It was calibrated using a Denon 2910 on the HDMI input.

As to the other remark above regarding the filter, perhaps it's just because I have read so much of the threads and most of Ekkehart's answers before comitting, that I know it has been mentioned umpteen times that there is enough drift in the specs of the individual projectors to warrant different filters and different settings.

I'm not making this up but you have to a search yourself if you don't believe me. It has been stated quite categorically a number of times. There seems to be enough entries in this and related threads without having to ask the (unfortunately useless) questions again and again.

I am not trying to pan anybody as such and just suggest that using the search facility can answer a lot of questions without asking them again.

Anyway I think it is a great PJ for the price and I have been watching far to many movies since I got with almost 80 hours on it in a bit over 2 weeks.



Originally posted by TheFerret
Robert, what source(s) was (were) used for your AE700 calibration? Are you going to be passing your video through that Denon? If so, you 'may' find it necessary, then again you may not, to recalibrate.

I think most people are looking for a starting point in their AE700 calibration andnot trying to exactly mimic someone else's settings. Its nice to know which ballpark to stand in, and then find your way to your seat.

When Ekkehart gave that statement, he has not calibrated enough AE700s to know if a specific filter can be used on most AE700. However, for most projector calibrations, one specific filter can/has been used for calibration. Only the individual settings varies. However, I believe that Ekkehart will most likely find that one filter type can be used for most AE700 and settings will vary slightly from one AE700 to another.

SO. Will someone, hopefully with a color-filtered-calibrated AE700 by cine4home, post the filter used and their individual settings!!!!!!


Originally posted by audiomaniac
IAs to the other remark above regarding the filter, perhaps it's just because I have read so much of the threads and most of Ekkehart's answers before comitting, that I know it has been mentioned umpteen times that there is enough drift in the specs of the individual projectors to warrant different filters and different settings.

Originally posted by bradbissell
Yes, the settings will be different for each projector, but the filter will probably be the same for a projector model. My HS10 uses a CC40R, most people who have calibrated this projector either use a CC40R or a CC30R. I can't imagine cine4home selecting a different filter for each projector that comes in, simply because they are mostly adjusting for the characteristics of the bulb and not the lcd panels.
Cine4home clearly stated in a reply that this is not the case. He knew what filters he used for his review, and then noted that for calibration of someone else's AE700 used a different [set of] filter[s].

Which calibration disc is better? The DVE or Avia system? I am ready to start tweaking my AE700. Also, has anyone matched up either the new Sony DVPNS975V or Panny S97 DVD players with the AE700? I would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks in advance, Brian

Originally posted by rockytopps
Which calibration disc is better? The DVE or Avia system? I am ready to start tweaking my AE700. Also, has anyone matched up either the new Sony DVPNS975V or Panny S97 DVD players with the AE700? I would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks in advance, Brian
Search of this thread for S97 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=2079880&sortby=&sortorder=)
Search of this thread for S975 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=2079902&sortby=&sortorder=)
Note: there could be some overlap as S97 is also found in S975.

***PROBLEM***

Anyone else with the AE700 who have an XBox hooked up to it having problems? Has everyone playing XBox in 480P mode on this projector have an excellent unflawed picture? When I enable 480P, 720P & 1080i on the XBox (by having the High Def Video pack) I get transparent vertical lines that go across my entire screen. There are purplish & greenish lines...each about 2 inches wide....every other line is opposite color. Now underneath this "layer of stripes" is fine. The graphics are very sharp. When I turn off the high def mode on the XBox the stripes disappear, however, the graphics now are back into their "normal" mode coming from the XBox rather than "high def" graphics. The XBox is hooked up to the component connection on the AE700.

Now here is what I've tried so far...there is no dot clock or phase adjustment so that doesn't apply when using component. I have tried using a different component cable...no change. I hooked up my friend's XBox....no change. The only thing left in my opinion to try is to try another XBox High Def Video Pack. Mine is brand new and just bought it about a month ago. I can't imagine it being the problem since it transports the 480i signal to the projector with no issues. Grrrr. It sure is starting to sound like I have a defective projector to some degree. What really blows my mind is that the projector does just fine with a 480P signal from a DVD player.

Can you take and post a picture of what you are seeing?

Anyone suffer from flashes using a Pioneer Elite 59AVi (or another country's equivalent)?

Yes I did a search, which was useless, so the question is not "useless." :confused:

The only thing approaching useless here is a 148 page thread. ;)

Originally posted by bubbawilly
Anyone suffer from flashes using a Pioneer Elite 59AVi (or another country's equivalent)?

Yes I did a search, which was useless, so the question is not "useless." :confused:

The only thing approaching useless here is a 148 page thread. ;)
You find the thread useless because a) its 148-pages (only 50 pages for me), b) because you found nothing useful in it, or c) someone didn't fix your problem?

I'll play around more with mine, but I haven't had any problems using XBox via component. Only played around with it for a few hours over the weekend when my lil brother (http://www.bbbsa.org/) decided he wanted to see xbox "on the big screen".

I also have the high def adapter, but I never tried putting it into a high def resolution because I have no high def games (aren't there only like 3?). What high def game are you using to test this? Maybe I'll rent it. The only game I tried was halo, which is 480p and not even widescreen. It worked fine and picture was what I expected for 480p.




Originally posted by crueman
***PROBLEM***

Anyone else with the AE700 who have an XBox hooked up to it having problems? Has everyone playing XBox in 480P mode on this projector have an excellent unflawed picture? When I enable 480P, 720P & 1080i on the XBox (by having the High Def Video pack) I get transparent vertical lines that go across my entire screen. There are purplish & greenish lines...each about 2 inches wide....every other line is opposite color. Now underneath this "layer of stripes" is fine. The graphics are very sharp. When I turn off the high def mode on the XBox the stripes disappear, however, the graphics now are back into their "normal" mode coming from the XBox rather than "high def" graphics. The XBox is hooked up to the component connection on the AE700.

Now here is what I've tried so far...there is no dot clock or phase adjustment so that doesn't apply when using component. I have tried using a different component cable...no change. I hooked up my friend's XBox....no change. The only thing left in my opinion to try is to try another XBox High Def Video Pack. Mine is brand new and just bought it about a month ago. I can't imagine it being the problem since it transports the 480i signal to the projector with no issues. Grrrr. It sure is starting to sound like I have a defective projector to some degree. What really blows my mind is that the projector does just fine with a 480P signal from a DVD player.

It just seems that the video processor in the AE700 is more proficcient at deinterlacing than just scaling.

I've been using my xbox over component with the monster hi def pack. No problems at all. 480i, 480p and 720P games. Looks gorgeous.

Originally posted by TraderGordo
U also have the high def adapter, but I never tried putting it into a high def resolution because I have no high def games (aren't there only like 3?). What high def game are you using to test this?

www.hdtvarcade.com has a list :)

Originally posted by TheFerret
You find the thread useless because a) its 148-pages (only 50 pages for me), b) because you found nothing useful in it, or c) someone didn't fix your problem?

d) I find no useless information here, nor do I find anyone's questions useless.

e) The search function, however, can be less than helpful at times.

f) IMO, the 700 probably deserves individual threads on the multitude of key topics. That would be far from useless.

Anyone using the 700 with a 59AVi?

Actually Halo 2 is in widescreen, you just have to turn it on to wide. I see no problems for high def for mine. Dragon's Lair 3d played perfectly...

Originally posted by rockytopps
Which calibration disc is better? The DVE or Avia system? I am ready to start tweaking my AE700. Also, has anyone matched up either the new Sony DVPNS975V or Panny S97 DVD players with the AE700? I would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks in advance, Brian

The Panny S97 HDMI>HDMI is a great match. Saw Final Coutdown on it and looked almost HD. And 5th Element Superbit *did* look HD.

What does the dynamic iris really do? I can't see much of a difference.

Thanks to everyone who responded. Tonight will be the final elimination. If the new High Def Pack doesn't solve it, well then, back goes the projector for an exchange or off to Panasonic it goes.

TraderGordo...I was using the words "high def" loosely. What I was saying was that when you have the XBox High Def Pack it allows XBox graphics to be more detailed. So 480P actually has more graphic detail than 480i. It's not just sending a progressive signal. Enabling 480P on the XBox put the graphics into high gear if the game supports it. If you run a test on your XBox with your AE700 you will see that if you tell XBox to output a 480i signal the graphic detail is "normal". If you then switch it to 480P mode you will see your projector putting out a much more detailed picture.

Ferret...I will take a couple pics tonight and post. I'm guessing pictures should definitely show it. It's not dark colored bands but still very annoying and undoubtedly something bad is happening.

Add me to the list of AE700 owners, I got an amazing deal and put my order in this morning. This will be my first projector, so what calibration CD(s) should I pickup to perform the tweaks?

Originally posted by audiomaniac
I can't understand why so many of you continue on this line. The settings are completely dependent on the individual projector and the specific filter which was chosen for this specific projector.

I am VERY satisfied with my cine4home calibrated AE700 and I have also just sprung for a Denon 3910.

I do suffer from the flashes mentioned elsewhere and some VB.

hi audiomaniac so you have the cine4home calibration, NICE i have ordered one myself, (and yes the calibration is made by cine4home and is specific for every projector so i think if someone just copies the setting it will not look so good especially without a filter). so what do you think is it a noticeable difference with the cine4home calibration have you seen an uncalibrated panny 700 to compare with.

thanks in advance:D

Originally posted by crueman
***PROBLEM***

Anyone else with the AE700 who have an XBox hooked up to it having problems? Has everyone playing XBox in 480P mode on this projector have an excellent unflawed picture? When I enable 480P, 720P & 1080i on the XBox (by having the High Def Video pack) I get transparent vertical lines that go across my entire screen. There are purplish & greenish lines...each about 2 inches wide....every other line is opposite color. Now underneath this "layer of stripes" is fine. The graphics are very sharp. When I turn off the high def mode on the XBox the stripes disappear, however, the graphics now are back into their "normal" mode coming from the XBox rather than "high def" graphics. The XBox is hooked up to the component connection on the AE700.

Now here is what I've tried so far...there is no dot clock or phase adjustment so that doesn't apply when using component. I have tried using a different component cable...no change. I hooked up my friend's XBox....no change. The only thing left in my opinion to try is to try another XBox High Def Video Pack. Mine is brand new and just bought it about a month ago. I can't imagine it being the problem since it transports the 480i signal to the projector with no issues. Grrrr. It sure is starting to sound like I have a defective projector to some degree. What really blows my mind is that the projector does just fine with a 480P signal from a DVD player.

I borrowed a friend's Xbox Hi Def system (hacked with a mod chip) to see how it would work as a HTPC in my system. I changed output on XBox to 720p and also got the same wide stripes you refer to when running DVD's on the XBox (only on some scenes). We then compared the output to my HTPC running ATI 9000 thru the HDMI output. There was a distinct and very noticeable difference in both the color and level of detail with the HTPC using HDMI beating the XBox running the same DVD every time. We froze some scenes and did a detailed A-B comparison (Vanilla Sky was the movie) and it was very clear that the XBox playing a DVD thru component input to the AE700 was no where near as detailed as the HTPC outputing same movie thru the HDMI input.

This surprised me as generally I prefer the component input from my DVD player to the HDMI input from my HTPC for color accuracy.

Games on the XBox looked great.

I have therefore written off using the XBox as a DVD movie player from here on and only plan on using it for games.

Originally posted by mrjag
Add me to the list of AE700 owners, I got an amazing deal and put my order in this morning. This will be my first projector, so what calibration CD(s) should I pickup to perform the tweaks?

hi mrjag, judging by your name "jag" you live in Sweden or am i wrong, if you live in Sweden then you should use DVE (digital video essentials) the PAL version, if you do not use PAL movies your probably better of with AVIA or the NTSC version of DVE. i haven't tried these dvd:s out myself but i have read many posts regarding the subject and these two seem to be the best choice.

happy tuning:D

I'm in the US, and several people have commented to me something about Sweden over the years, but I haven't figured out why.

I am leaning toward AVIA but was worried about it being outdated and geared toward CRT systems.

Well... my AE700 is on its way back to PP. Due to dead/stuck pixels.... all green in the lower right portion of the screen... i counted about 3 the first time... now it is up to about 7.... All of these appeared after about 30-40 hours of use.... Checked if it was dust but nope :-( I hope to get my new baby back next week :-( Oh btw.. xbox was not having any issues here in any given "hd" resolution... i hope the new a/v pack works out for you ok

Yea, I think its your high def adapter too. I doubt its the projector. I just tried enabling widescreen and all resolutions via xbox control panel. Still looks fine.

Originally posted by bubbawilly
Anyone suffer from flashes using a Pioneer Elite 59AVi (or another country's equivalent)?




I'm using the 59avi and have not experienced any flashes, although I'm using component and not HDMI (and only have about 8 hours on the projector). I could not get the HDMI connection to work and have not had a chance to determine if it's a problem with the cable, the projetor or the DVD player. Are you using HDMI between these two?



Stew

ARGH! I just purchased the XBox High Def Pack and not a thing changed! Stripes still there. I'll be contacting VA tomorrow to get this resolved. Here are 2 pics that show it. Like I said, the stripes are not very dark but very much there and shouldn't be. I'm posting a couple pics. If you look closely and your screen is set bright enough you will see the horrid stripes.

And another...

Ahhh, a picture is worth 1000 words. That sure looks like the infamous "VB" to me (although your pics aren't very conclusive). Do you leave your projector in standby mode? Only thing I'd be surprised by is if you really only see VB with the XBox. I would think you'd see it with other sources too. Have you done the flicker tweak?

Once again, see page one of the tweak thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4606637#post4606637

Originally posted by mrjag
I'm in the US, and several people have commented to me something about Sweden over the years, but I haven't figured out why.

I am leaning toward AVIA but was worried about it being outdated and geared toward CRT systems.

HEHE, ok thats because "jag" in your name means ME in Swedish:D

Its also lawyer in the military. (our military) Don't you watch CBS on Fridays? ;)

DVE is more difficult to use, but will probably do a better job once you figure out the menu system and what they're trying to say. I think its also a bit easier to find and cheaper.

HEEH:p no actually i dont have cbs but i know what you mean with JAG

and yes i have also heard that DVE is a little bit hard to use, apparently the menu system is not very user friendly, so if you live in the US go with AVIA(i dont think you can really go wrong with either choice)

The feature in DVE that works better than Avia for a digital display, is a step grayscale pattern that helps you adjust contrast and brightness. Its done in small enough increments that you can tell when you're crushing whites(contrast too high) crushing blacks(brightness too low) and the interaction between the two.

I really like Avia for its user friendliness, but it's contrast pattern is really intended for CRTs where you can see the scan lines and the blooming when contrast is set too high.

Of course, if you live close enough, I'd run over and help you adjust your projector. ................but some of us don't show location under our name. hint hint...........;)

Last night I was watching a summer concert DVR'd off HDnet when the cablebox/projector once again started their daily routine of suddenly dropping the signal over HDMI. This time it was much worse in that cycling the cable box did not re-capture the sync. When the box came back on, the last played image suddenly "zoomed" and then froze on screen. I unplugged/replugged the cable box and the image remained. I put the PJ into standby and it was still there when I turned it and the cable box back on. Ultimately I had to cut power at the PJ mains to be rid of the frozen image. I have no idea what was going on with this episode.

So I decided to have a look at 1080i over component. Wow - it was awesome! I expected it to be softer than HDMI but it was absolutely just as crisp. I ran both at the same time and did an A/B. At first I detected some difference in the color. Then I realized that the AE700 stores a completely different set of picture settings on component for 1080i than it does for 480p. I had to go in and enter my 480p DVE picture settings as 1080i settings. I ran HD test patterns recorded off HDnet and the component had the same resolution as HDMI.

Once I had done this, the A/B revealed no differences whatsoever between component and HDMI. It was such a relief to just relax and watch without interruption. I continued the A/B and I would forget which input was selected and could not tell. The only clue would be when HDMI would of course suddenly lose sync. Press button, switch to component, voila' - perfect picture restored.

I think that these HDMI problems are more related to running DVI 23-ft. than they are to some issue with the HDMI port itself. However I am reluctantly to purchase another source device with HDMI because it could be throwing good money after bad.

Is anyone seeing video dropouts on HDMI from an HDMI source over a short cable? If yes, that would be very disappointing.

Well it seems the AE700 is not the only projector to be experiencing problems with the HDMI interface. There is a thread on this forum that shows the new Sanyo Z3 is having major problems with its HDMI interface. Maybe the implementation of the HDMI standard is not as straight forward as the companies would like.

Cheers

Mav

Really this is the first batch of display devices that are using HDMI. Gonna be some time till the kinks are worked out.

Really? VB? I see it even on light whitish areas of games too. No matter what game or what the graphics are it is there....but only in progressive mode from the XBox. Have not seen any even in progressive mode on my DVD player.

I thought VB wasn't constant and wasn't purplish and greenish in color. ???

And I never leave the projector in standby. Always flip off the switch in the back after the bulb cool down process.

Oh and I've also done the flicker tweak. Blue and Red were perfectly fine and green I adjusted one number up.

Originally posted by HMenke


I think that these HDMI problems are more related to running DVI 23-ft. than they are to some issue with the HDMI port itself. However I am reluctantly to purchase another source device with HDMI because it could be throwing good money after bad.

Is anyone seeing video dropouts on HDMI from an HDMI source over a short cable? If yes, that would be very disappointing.

Someone has - earlier in the thread.
Have you driven the HDMI port with 1280 x 720 - again as per earlier in the thread (sorry no time to look) it was speculated that this might be a scaler problem and driving the port with 1:1 is a solution as it bypasses the scaler. Is your player upscaling?

ted

HMenke

If possible, try sending it 1080i.

I'm using a 30' cable from Blue Jean and don't have the problem you're having. I usually send it a 1080I signal.

Edit. If you're also sending a signal from a DVD player over the same cable without problems, then it's probably the cablebox.