2.8

Originally posted by Monkey_Man
It's not the panels, it's how they are driven. I'll upgrade to the 700u only if it's 110% VB free.

Wouldn't Panasonic or Sanyo have released a firmware upgrade by now for their current projectors if this was fixable? I was originally gonna get a BenQ 8700, but am now considering the ae700. The main issues for me would be vertical banding and dust blobs...

I know all the firmware fixes for the Z2 never touched VB. The Z2 has many more options to tune VB out. Right now I have for the most part eliminated VB on most movies. However, time to time I will run into a movie that really has lot's of VB on the Z2.

I find the better the transfer is the less likely VB will show it's ugly face.

From what I hear the Epson 500 is VB free and it uses the D4 panel.

Hmm, I started with the Panny 300 and upgraded to the 500 back in February. Didn't see much improvement and ended up trading the peek-a-boo for vertical banding without much else. If the 700 truly delivers on an improved pq without the VB, I might go full circle and upgrade again.

Agreed.. since VB is different projector to projector and model to model even with the same panels, I won't be surprised if we end up getting reports of some VB on this projector with individual units.

I think I have been through all the cedia accounts of the 700 and don't remember any reports of vb. Do these show versions generally differ from the productions units? Since we are supposedly so close to a potential street date, I would hope that they would be showing street versions.

Any idea if there are improvements in dust blob susceptibility with the AE700's new design? I have an L300U and damnable dust blobs are my biggest gripe (with grayish blacks and VB in the place and show positions). The theater room is virtually dust free, I keep a loose cloth cover on the PJ when it's not in use, I change the "filter", and *still* I get those annoying green ghosts appearing on the screen every 6 weeks or so. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Thank You letter from the CEO of Falcon Dust-Air show up in my mailbox..."I'm not sure I want to know what you are using all those 12 oz. cans of compressed air for, but whatever it is you sure helped us hit our numbers last quarter." But I digress...the dust blob problem alone is almost enough to push me to a DLP with a fully sealed light path as my next PJ...

That said, I'm *very* tempted to take the plunge and pre-order this baby. The lack of lens shift - along with my belief that one should always skip at least one generation before upgrading a consumer electronic device - kept me from jumping on the 500U.

Any insight - speculation, conjecture, whatever - on dust blobbiness would be greatly appreciated...

-tony

A quick note about dust blobs. I too am having trouble with them in my Panny L200. I think a good idea for the next cleaning is that I will thoroughly clean the intake fan and keep a spare filter handy and replace it early. Take a look at your current filter, if it looks dirty, replace it and clean the dirty one, ready to replace that one when it gets dirty. I imagine the filters may wear out too, so perhaps they need to be replaced as time goes by.

For the sake of being able to custom modify, it can't be all that difficult to add your own external filter system to any Panny PJ, but remember that you have to make sure you're not restricting air flow.

I think I agree with the concerns. Vertical Banding, scanline artifacts and dust blobs are top on most peoples list. While we all want higher resolution and reduced screen door, along with better contrast and black levels, its the VB, scanlines and dust blobs that annoy most people. Hopefully the AE700 will be better with dust blobs.

Originally posted by Monkey_Man
I think this around I will wait for reviews before I plunge in head first.



I wonder why...... :)

I hate stickies. The AE-700 is awesome!

Hehe... had to do it. Too many new AE700 posts. Once it's released we will probably relent a bit.

So Tryg I assume you saw the 700u at CEDIA? So your micrometer eye didn't detect any VB? I figure the master of the screen would catch any VB if it was there :)

Originally posted by Monkey_Man
So Tryg I assume you saw the 700u at CEDIA? So your micrometer eye didn't detect any VB? I figure the master of the screen would catch any VB if it was there :)
I didn't see much VB on the 700u or HS51 at CEDIA, but I also didn't think that meant much as I figured they would probably pick their best units or tweak the VB out with their tools for a show model, if they had any sense. It is interesting that some of these LCD guys don't seem to even know what VB is, though. Of course, I point it out to make sure they understand. :)

--Darin

Originally posted by darinp2
I didn't see much VB on the 700u or HS51 at CEDIA,
--Darin

Darin,
If I recall correctly, in another post you suggested you preferred the HS51, any chance you can elaborate with respect to the AE700?

thanks,
ted

Originally posted by tvted
[B]If I recall correctly, in another post you suggested you preferred the HS51, any chance you can elaborate with respect to the AE700?
[B]
It was mostly just what I perceived as better CR on the HS51, but the AE700 environment wasn't the best (actually neither environment was). My guess is that the HS51 will have better ANSI CR, as well as having the on/off CR advantage, but I won't know until I get a chance to test them. It could have just been the material shown and environments. Just for the on/off CR advantage I would probably be more likely to take the HS51 myself, but as always, it would be nice to test myself instead of relying on their demo material.

--Darin

I can't tell you how many times I talk to salesmen at a high end brick and mortar shops or reputable online retailers like Visual Apex and they are have not idea what VB is.
One time it was funny, I was talking to a female sales "person" at visual apex and I was trying to explain to her what a panamoprh lens was. She couldn't understand the value of one.

Don't get me wrong the folks at Visual Apex are the greatest people to deal with.

If I end up getting the 700u I won't settle until I get a perfect unit. Even if it means sending 8 back or so to get one. I'm not settling this time around. Also I'm thirsting for more CR :) Not to mention I love to upgrade.

Monkey Man, I had a salesman who had never heard of "rainbows" with the DLP's. Infact he stated in 7 years of selling projectors this was news to him. After I explained it further he kind of wrinkled his brow like I was pulling his leg! :)

Monkey Man, I had a salesman who had never heard of "rainbows" with the DLP's. Infact he stated in 7 years of selling projectors this was news to him. After I explained it further he kind of wrinkled his brow like I was pulling his leg!

We are a sick breed. It hurts being right all the time :)

edwardr132 quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Monkey_Man
I think this around I will wait for reviews before I plunge in head first.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





I wonder why......

Now that's an inside joke :) Also the same reason I don't get my panties in a bunch about the late release of TheaterTek 2.0.

of course there was verticle banding. Always. but very very little

Now you did it.

Originally posted by darinp2
It was mostly just what I perceived as better CR on the HS51, but the AE700 environment wasn't the best (actually neither environment was). My guess is that the HS51 will have better ANSI CR, as well as having the on/off CR advantage, but I won't know until I get a chance to test them. It could have just been the material shown and environments. Just for the on/off CR advantage I would probably be more likely to take the HS51 myself, but as always, it would be nice to test myself instead of relying on their demo material.

--Darin
****** No Offense Intended Darin :D*******
Just as a qualifier for all you <$3.5K'ers out there in case you are not familiar with Darin... He has owned a 3 Chip DLP, has a Qualia and if I recall correctly, is getting a JVC HD2K as well. Each one of those are $20K-30K+. When he says he would probably pick the HS51 over the AE700, I'm guessing the budget difference is not as big of a consideration as it might be for some of us...

That said, Darin is the only >$3.5K'er out there who has stuck with us low end folk through the thick and thin. He started buying projectors way back with one of the first AE300 out of Japan if I recall correctly :D, but has progressed a bit more rapidly than some of us since. However, to this day, he has always been one of the first people to buy the latest cheapy PJs, test them till the cows come home and of course, present full reports to us droolling folk. We should all be greatful for that. Thanks a bunch!

The HS51 is indeed, a full 50% more expensive by all estimates. Darin, with that in mind (and most of our budgets), I'd really love to hear your thoughts on bang for the buck between the two. Do you think the slight edge in on/off and ANSI of the Sony warrent the extra money? What about VB and FPN... do you think Sony's panels will prove to be that much better? If so, I'd love to hear it in terms of value. Also, knowing the AE300 backwards and fowards... which do you think would be a better upgrade for me if I can scrape up the money, if either?

Again, no offense intended!
-Matt

Originally posted by darinp2
Just for the on/off CR advantage I would probably be more likely to take the HS51 myself, but as always, it would be nice to test myself instead of relying on their demo material.
--Darin

I look forward to any further impressions you might provide. I am interested in the HS51 for the very reason you mention but I will have to compare it to the AE700 because Tryg has mentioned it compares favourably to his LCOS. I've a feeling Smoothscreen might offer the some benefits that my tastes might prefer, though I do wonder if I could achieve those qualities with the right scaler and slight defocus.

Thanks.
ted

Ah, Darinp how you have grown. I remember when you owned what was it, a Sharp PG-M20X and you held your first shootout. The sad thing is, this is how long I have been following this forum and STILL don't have a projector yet. I am considering the AE700 as I have enough moola now. That or a Hitachi TX-100 from overseas if stock becomes available again. I just wish someone could get there hands on a Panny to test it out.

Originally posted by Jcam9
I remember when you owned what was it, a Sharp PG-M20X and you held your first shootout.
Good memory Jcam9.... that must have been just before the AE300 straight out of Tokyo! :D
-Matt

Originally posted by mpjohnst
The HS51 is indeed, a full 50% more expensive by all estimates. Darin, with that in mind (and most of our budgets), I'd really love to hear your thoughts on bang for the buck between the two. Do you think the slight edge in on/off and ANSI of the Sony warrent the extra money? What about VB and FPN... do you think Sony's panels will prove to be that much better? If so, I'd love to hear it in terms of value. Also, knowing the AE300 backwards and fowards... which do you think would be a better upgrade for me if I can scrape up the money, if either?

Again, no offense intended!
-Matt
No offense at all. Yes, there is the price difference and that is really up to each individual. I think I am going to have to see these some more myself with my own material to really go much further.

I would say that as far as an upgrade, it really depends on what you are looking for. I have another friend with an AE300 who told me he wouldn't go with LCD again because of the CR issues and even though he sees some rainbows he wanted to upgrade to either my Sharp 11k or an Optoma H77. I am probably more likely to recommend the HS51 to him than the AE700. Mostly because of the CR differences. And then there is the oscillating fan issue which worries me with the AE700.

If the AE700 comes out and they have fixed most of the VB issue and the oscillating fan speed approach they've taken doesn't end up being bothersome to people, then I may change my mind.

I also have another friend who I sold my Sharp 10k to. I think the HS51 might be an upgrade from that overall, but doubt that the AE700 would be.

Even if the HS51 does end up being much better, it still won't be a better buy for many people, as you know. That is always true.

And I haven't heard pricing for the HS51 yet. I'm guessing 50% more than the AE700 in the US. If Sony can deliver very little VB and good alignment so that defocusing works well, then I think the HS51 could be in the Sharp 12k class. I personally don't see the AE700 being in that class even with low VB.

Also, who knows what other goodies people might find once these are delivered. I wouldn't have guessed that the HS20 would have the issues with 1:1 mapping that it did.
Originally posted by Jcam9
Ah, Darinp how you have grown. I remember when you owned what was it, a Sharp PG-M20X and you held your first shootout. The sad thing is, this is how long I have been following this forum and STILL don't have a projector yet. I am considering the AE700 as I have enough moola now. That or a Hitachi TX-100 from overseas if stock becomes available again. I just wish someone could get there hands on a Panny to test it out.
Yep. That was my first one. I held onto that one even after I sold the AE300 to somebody. I sold the M20x to some people I know and I believe it is still going strong (and they love it).

I was just looking at the pricing today overseas and was noticing that the AE700 was coming in close to TX100 pricing. If there aren't any gotchas then I would probably recommend the AE700 over the TX100 for most people. If you really want the TX100, maybe somebody will get the urge to switch to the HS51 or AE700 and you can get a good one used.

--Darin

panasonic will probably go with a japanese only OSD in japan. so the PRICE(in)JAPAN will be less than stateside, although hopefully not by much.

"Even if it means sending 8 back or so to get one. "

Visual Apex will keep exchanging pj's until you're happy? That's pretty amazing.

Originally posted by darinP2
I was just looking at the pricing today overseas and was noticing that the AE700 was coming in close to TX100 pricing.



Aust Website advertising available in 4 days
Cheers

Yep, dealer links are a no no ;)

Originally posted by darinp2
If the AE700 comes out and they have fixed most of the VB issue and the oscillating fan speed approach they've taken doesn't end up being bothersome to people, then I may change my mind.
--Darin

Darin-
What's this about the "oscillating fan speed approach?" I hadn't heard anything about that. I'm concerned because I have a 700 on order.
However - my AE-500's fan switches to high automatically when my room gets too warm. But - once the A/C comes on - and the room cools - the fan switches back to low. Now if I keep the A/C at about 70 - 71 degrees all the time - the fan stays on low. But the room feels a little too cool at that temp. So my AE-500 fan oscillates - and I never use A.I.
jb

I'll confess I'm another refugee from the over $3500 forum that is looking closely at this Panny. It has several plusses compared to the Sony, the big two are 200 lumens more brightness and a decent throw ratio on the lens. For those of us who believe the projector belongs in the back of the room, there are very few choices these days.

2000 CR would be a huge improvement over my current LCD. However, the one thing that concerns me about this one, and even more about the Sony because it is starting 200 lumens lower, is brightness. If the lamp loses 20% of its brightness in the first few hours, that brings the Panny down to 800 and the Sony in the low 600's. Not sure if I'd be happy with a projector that is 1/3 as bright as my current Sanyo.

Dan

Well put Dan,

by specs the tx100 should only be slightly brighter than the panny, but 500 showed us that panny ain't too accurate with lumen ratings (at least in movie viewing mode). If the 700 continues that then they'll be coming in around 500 measurable lumens, whereas reviewers have seen the tx100 live up to its specs.

So hopefully some of the experts, and people who saw the 700 can chime in and tell us, is the 700 only incrementally brighter than the 500 (and therefore way dimmer than the tx100 and even the z2) or is it much brighter?

-Jason

Originally posted by John Ballentine
What's this about the "oscillating fan speed approach?" I hadn't heard anything about that. I'm concerned because I have a 700 on order.
However - my AE-500's fan switches to high automatically when my room gets too warm. But - once the A/C comes on - and the room cools - the fan switches back to low. Now if I keep the A/C at about 70 - 71 degrees all the time - the fan stays on low. But the room feels a little too cool at that temp. So my AE-500 fan oscillates - and I never use A.I.
I mentioned to them at CEDIA that on the AE500, using the higher CR modes (the AI modes) meant that the fan would be on high (just like putting the bulb on high). They told me that with the AE700 they have changed it so that the fan will adjust over time. I believe that they are still using bulb modulation, so the AE700 will likely change temperature much more often while you are watching things.

If a person isn't going to use any AI mode they may be looking at under 800:1 and then I don't see a lot of advantages in the AE700 over the AE500. Basically lens-shift and the throw. If the AI modes won't be used, then I may recommend the TX100 over the AE700 for some people.
Originally posted by DanHouck
even more about the Sony because it is starting 200 lumens lower, is brightness.
Are people really sure that the Sony is dimmer? I believe the spec I saw listed the 800 lumens in low lamp mode. I think it may go brighter if you want to give up some CR. I don't know for sure, I'm just speculating.

--Darin

why would they use lamp modulation as well as a dynamic iris? Don't they do the same thing, i.e. reduce light output for low APL scenes?

Maybe their iris makes too much noise if it is adjusted too much? Who knows, really. There were probably multiple heated meetings between engineers with polar viewpoints, arguing over obscure design points, that led to the decision (if the info is true). Of course, this is pretty typical behavior over pretty much ANY major design point/feature (one company with whom I worked took six months to argue the aesthetics of rounded versus round corners...).

Later,
Bill

I saw the AE700 running right out on the floor of CEDIA; the lighting in the convention hall was bright. In all that light, the picture from the AE700 was still quite good, so I think its lumens rating may indeed be accurate.

Chris

Their pdf seems to contradict itself. In the text on page 4 it states:

"In conjunction with lamp control, the world's first iris with scene-tracking capability delivers a dynamic contrast of 2000:1..."

Then it shows 3 pictures of a planet and the first one presumably represents the PT-L300U with no lamp modulation/gamma correction. The second represents the PT-L500U with lamp modulation but no gamma correction, and the third is the PT-AE700U with dynamic iris and gamma correction. It does not seem logical to include both lamp modulation and a dynamic iris.

ok, either congratulate me or mourn me; guess we'll have to wait to see which. I've pulled the trigger on a 700!!!

I went with the avs advertiser that offers 7 day, 4 lamp hour satisfaction guarantee, so that's my safety net!

I CAN'T WAIT!!!

um, yeah, it's my first projector, so I'm allowed to be geeky about it :D

Originally posted by jasallen
ok, either congratulate me or mourn me; guess we'll have to wait to see which. I've pulled the trigger on a 700!!!

I went with the avs advertiser that offers 7 day, 4 lamp hour satisfaction guarantee, so that's my safety net!

I CAN'T WAIT!!!

um, yeah, it's my first projector, so I'm allowed to be geeky about it :D

I looked through all the links above and cannot find the vendor you describe. I currently have a preorder with Visual Apex, but would prefer the ability to return without a penalty if the unit has severe VB.

Don't do it... don't take this thread down that road ;). No vendor links or pricing posts.

Originally posted by darinp2

If a person isn't going to use any AI mode they may be looking at under 800:1 and then I don't see a lot of advantages in the AE700 over the AE500. Basically lens-shift and the throw. If the AI modes won't be used, then I may recommend the TX100 over the AE700 for some people.
--Darin

Darin,
As I don't use the AI mode - because the fan is simply too loud in this mode - you're right - I won't realize the improved contrast ratio. This makes me re-think upgrading my 500 for a 700. I would be upgrading simply to get the lens shift; as I would really like to get my projector up higher and closer to the ceiling. My ceiling is slightly vaulted and the projector hangs down on a 18" rod. The other thing that scares me about upgrading is that my 500 is "pixel perfect" and has a very very minimal amount of VB. I'd hate to up-grade and suddenly have problems in these two areas.
John

I am trying to find the lamp life for the AE700. Can someone clarify this for me please?

Believe it or not I read 5000hrs. I wonder why this bulb is rated so long and if it will be twice the price to replace. Sounds good to me though :)

Well the 700 looks good, but I am waiting for more reviews before I get too excited. I am one who has no VB on my 500 and I do not want to give it up for a 700 with vb. Does anyone really have an idea if the 700 is worth upgrading in that case. 150 more lumens and 700 more in CR. Will this make it a "lot" better, or am I chasing a dead end? I figure a 500 will sell on ebay for $1500 with a perfect picture, but the 700 will be $2000 for a while. I am just thinking a faster video card would do more for me.......(x800xt). I have a 9800pro oced to past xt levels, but I want to play far cry at 1920x1080. I know-sounds ridiculous.

I read somewhere (sorry, wish I could remember where, or if it was even a reliable source) that the bulb would be in the $700 price range, so it may have the same operational cost, but at least a slightly small Pain-in-the-Ass rating ;)

jasallen, I was wondering if they would compensate on the bulb price since it lasts longer. That figures. Maybe by the time I will need one the price will have dropped. What would REALLY suck is if that puppy popped at say 400hrs and you had to buy a new one. Talked about pissed off! :)

Good News:
wherever it was I read that is NOT reliable

AVS advertisers say: PN: PANET-LAE700 is $369!!!!

**Edit**
For clarity, that is the replacement bulb that I'm referring to above

Originally posted by madpoet
Don't do it... don't take this thread down that road ;). No vendor links or pricing posts.

Sorry madpoet. I didn't mean to do that. Just trying to find a place that will let me try the product without a hefty fee.

Sites are now showing shipping late October. Anyone heard otherwise?

Can anybody confirm whether the 700 will fit the mounting brackets made for the 500? ie Cheif Mount? Thanks

I've seen it at CEDIA. I preordered mine for late October delivery as well. Thing that sold me on this pj besides the CR 2000:1, 2.0X zoom, V and H lens shift, HDMI Interface, and 5,000 hr lamp life disccussed in this thread are:
1. AE700 has an advanced 10-bit color processing system that is capable of producing over one billion colors rather than the typical 16.7 million, which is extremely rare on products in this price range. Thus it can deliver more realistic, natural color than was achievable on earlier generation products.
2. AE700 appears to beat every other projector under $10,000 in one extremely remarkable way: pixel structure is almost invisible. Standing 12 inches from a 100" diagonal screen, the pixel structure is barely detectable. SDE is a thing of the past. This LCD projector outperforms a high resolution DLP product in the area of pixelation.
I've been a die hard CRT man and still not quite up to my NEC XG110 but it's damn close. It's that good. projectorcentral site has an early review on this unit.

Originally posted by anydaygolfer
Standing 12 inches from a 100" diagonal screen, the pixel structure is barely detectable. SDE is a thing of the past. This LCD projector outperforms a high resolution DLP product in the area of pixelation.


Are there downsides to Smoothscreeen that anyone might know of?

ted

Does anyone know how long the warranty is?

I heard that it may be out earlier than late October. The Panasonic site
lists late Sept. and some dealers say it will be in very soon.

Yup, I just got an update form my dealer that they will ship the first unit to me which they expect to be middle of October.

Originally posted by tvted
Are there downsides to Smoothscreeen that anyone might know of?

ted

Your eyes might fall off or have an orgasm.:D

Can anyone who has actually SEEN this (CEDIA, whatever) care to comment on the noise level with AI on?

That seems to be the only potential downside I can see. I really need BOTH high CR AND low audible noise level.

Originally posted by tvted
Are there downsides to Smoothscreeen that anyone might know of?

ted

I think it gives the image a very slight out of focus look... not quite as sharp as those w/o Smoothscreen. But it's not bad at all.

reap

I think you are making stuff up...

reaper,

So, is smoothscreen any different than just taking the original image, and making it slightly out of focus? I'd really be interested in understanding how Smoothscreen works, if anyone knows thet technical details.

Originally posted by anydaygolfer
I've been a die hard CRT man and still not quite up to my NEC XG110 but it's damn close. It's that good. projectorcentral site has an early review on this unit. [/B]

I looked for the projectorcentral review of this projector, but the closest that I came was the CEDIA report. Is this what you were referring to?

http://www.projectorcentral.com/cedia_2004.htm

I don't suppose the we have the ability to turn the "smoothscreen" off.

There is no loss of sharpness or clarity with smoothscreen technology after looking at it compared to my other lcd monitors. I run DVI from imy HTPC at 1280x720 to my L500u and it is breathtaking.....just ask anybody that has ever seen it. Just look for yourself if you do not believe me.

Originally posted by SingleA
So, is smoothscreen any different than just taking the original image, and making it slightly out of focus? I'd really be interested in understanding how Smoothscreen works, if anyone knows the technical details.

From the spec sheets it indicates that this is done with a prism. As to where it is in the optical path perhaps someone with more intimate knowlededge can provide. Since it is optical it would seem to me that there might be alighnement issues - how do you soften the the pixel structure without softening the pixel data?


Originally posted by anydaygolfer
Your eyes might fall off or have an orgasm

One of these is definitely not a downside, the other would depend on who you are with.;)

ted

I have no idea how it works. Maybe zxlr8 knows better than I do. I was just reporting my subjective thoughts from seeing this and the HS51 at CEDIA. I loved the images of both. But when they had a closeup of something with a lot of detail in it, to me I thought the object seemed slightly less crisp on the 700... ever so slightly. I think overall it was a benefit for the projector and the smoothscreen technology is the main reason this thing is on my short list of considerations.

Maybe I'm wrong about the softness of the image. Sounds like zxlr8 has more experience than I do. So, don't take my word on it.

reaper

Reaper I detect a hint of sarcasm. I did not mean to sound like I know it all. Sorry. I just know we have a natural tendancy to automatically think a technology has to have a downside. This one as far as I can tell does not. Take with that what you will. No hard feelings....

I would submit that reaper's reaction is probably very real , that there is less 'crispness'. Because there IS less crispness, that's kind of the point, like over-emphasizing sharpness on my good ole 32" CRT SDTV. However, turning that sharpness down to an appropriate point (as Avia tells me to :)) improves PQ while softening the image, I suspect the same to be true here. No loss in data, just perceived 'crispness' in A to B comparisons.

Just a little more rambling here: Harder, straigter lines will always be perceived as crisper even if they are the WRONG straight lines (like the SD grid)

ok done now :)
-Jason

Zx, more than one person has said that they find Smoothscreen images a touch softer than non-Smoothscreen. I have no reason to think they are lying. It's a matter of perception in many cases.

Originally posted by SingleA
I looked for the projectorcentral review of this projector, but the closest that I came was the CEDIA report. Is this what you were referring to?

Yup, I don't know if you can call it a review but it gives a pretty good description of what the projector can do in comparison to others. Also, with the advent of Sony's new Black is Beautiful screen that eliminate amvient light considerations, CR ratings of projectors will become less of a factor as well. I'm definitely saving up for this screen. Re fan noise issue with AI on, I honestly didn't notice noise from the fan as I didn't make it point to listen for it. Also, ambient noise at the show could also have surpressed any fan noise if there was any. I'm used to a CRT projector with 7 fans which I drown with my sound system so it's a no biggie factor for me.

With all factors considered, in my humble opinion, Panny AE700 is a clear winner especially at less than 2K that I preorder it for.

About this projector availability - i talked with local shop today and they said, that they expect first projectors to arrive in couple weeks ;)

So i'm seriously thinking about buying it instead of Hitachi tx-100 atm...

No hard feelings and no sarcasm intended. I tend to be very forgiving in my posts concerning projectors since I believe quite a bit of the results are very subjective.

Also, I realize that much of my knowledge and expectations are garnered and regurgitated from fellow avs forum members. So, I do not profess to be an expert. I mean how can you forum members take a guy (me) seriously when reporting about a projector knowing that I don't even own one myself. :)

I have some opinions and small amount of experience to offer to the forum. I hope some of my impressions especially from CEDIA were helpful to a forum member or two. But mainly, I will bow to those with more hands on experience than I.

I am simply offering my perception of SmoothScreen and I highly encourage others to take all opinions into account when making their own decision.

Lastly, I will say that all my time on these forums did nothing to help me actually select a projector. They only gave me the knowledge of what to look for when picking my own. It required my own hands on experience and perceptions/subjective impressions to come to a decision. Had I not read about contrast ratio and rainbows on here, I think I'd be a disappointed customer come Christmas this year when I buy my first. Luckily, I've taken enough away that I feel pretty dang confident I will make a great choice and be happy with it for years to come.

reaper

Originally posted by anydaygolfer
Also, with the advent of Sony's new Black is Beautiful screen that eliminate amvient light considerations, CR ratings of projectors will become less of a factor as well. I'm definitely saving up for this screen.ny AE700 is

Sorry but this is not true as others have commented. The black screen's purpose is to reject ambient light such that watching a PJ with the lights on would be less of a factor. I would imagine it might have some impact small on the need for higher lumens.
CR ratings will be with us for a long time as they impact upon the projector's ability to render blacks and whites convincingly.

ted

"how do you soften the the pixel structure without softening the pixel data?"

Because the structure we're talking about, the spaces between the pixels, is much smaller than the pixel itself.

Another way of thinking about it is that the on/off transition of the pixel gap represents a much higher spatial frequency than the on/off transition of the pixel, so you can eliminate it by lowpass filtering w/minimal effect in the lower freq video information.

Yet another way, if you had a screenful of black and white lines the same width as the pixel gaps you'd have close to 4000 of them horizontally for a 1280x720 pj.

The point is, they're high freq noise and if they're there they will give more detail but that detail is not conrtained in the video data.

Originally posted by Kroot
About this projector availability - i talked with local shop today and they said, that they expect first projectors to arrive in couple weeks ;)

So i'm seriously thinking about buying it instead of Hitachi tx-100 atm...

I almost pulled the trigger on pj-100tx myself until I found out about the AE700's bulb life, billion colors, 2 1 zoom, and resolution. CR is certainly important factor and you might see improvements in CR and lumen output in the future but then again you can always compensate for these factors with Black is Beautiful screen by Sony. However, this screen will not improve resolution nor color balance of the projector.

Guys that are staying on the sideline waiting for the perfect projector at perfect price makes me chuckle. You can literally wait forever for such a projector Selecting a projector is much like selecting a computer. It pretty much follow's Moore's law. Computer or projector pretty much becomes obsolete or 1/2 it's price in six to twelve months. So, at point do you dive in and get one. I can't wait another three months till Christmas time and sees if any other companies come out with better performance projectors for less money. I already got a Directv HDTV Receiver with six months free promotion and 120 inch .8 gain screen waiting for a projector. Panny AE700 has the performance features and price that fits my bill and that's good enought for me and on with HD enjoyment already. In two years, this projector will be absolete because by then you'll see flurry of 1080P projectors and sources on the market. By then, $25,000 1080P projectors JVC and Sony came out with will be selling for $7,500 and bargain versions for less than $3,500. Mark my words. Meanwhile, I'll be enjoying every penny of my 2k investment.

Originally posted by tvted
Sorry but this is not true as others have commented. The black screen's purpose is to reject ambient light such that watching a PJ with the lights on would be less of a factor. I would imagine it might have some impact small on the need for higher lumens.
CR ratings will be with us for a long time as they impact upon the projector's ability to render blacks and whites convincingly.

ted

Valid point and I agree. However, because your screen does not get washed out with ambient light, your do not have to push brightness to overcome amvient light and thereby sacrificing CR. So your viusal perception of CR is much better and this will in a way show true CR capabilities of the projector. In other words, the black screen will allow you to utilize the CR capabilities of your projector fully without ambient light affecting it and perceive that CR of the projector is not good enought when in fact ambient light is the real cause of why you think projector CR is not good.

Originally posted by noah katz
"how do you soften the the pixel structure without softening the pixel data?"

Because the structure we're talking about, the spaces between the pixels, is much smaller than the pixel itself.

But Noah, I was claiming that it was done optically with a prism (per specs on the Panasonic site) hence my concern with alignment.
Are you claiming that it is done electronically or are likening a defocus to a low pass filter which I've seen some do?

Personally I would prefer to do it electronically as a scaler might be able to allow more flexibility.

ted

Alright this has gone on too long:

Smoothscreen is achieved by a prism. There won't be any alignment issues because there is only one prism. I would worry much more about misaligned LCD panels.

I have owned the 300u, 500u, and the Z2.

Smoothscreen gives a more film like appearance because the pixels are optically squeezed together but they don't over lap. The Z2 gives the appearance of a sharper picture because the edgeness of the pixels.

Does the smoothscreen look softer like defocus? NO

The only issue withthe 300u and 500u was scan lines. Sometimes known as peek-a-boo screen door. This had nothing to do with the smoothscreen technology.

Ted,

"But Noah, I was claiming that it was done optically with a prism "

Sorry, I thought you were asking about defocusing.

Originally posted by Monkey_Man
Alright this has gone on too long:
:)
Okay that's fair.

Smoothscreen gives a more film like appearance because the pixels are optically squeezed together but they don't over lap.
Interesting, I'd like to know how the prism does that, but this thread is not the place.

Monkey_Man sir,
I'm aware you've a anamorphic lens with your Z2 and I've seen some comments re the optical smoothness it can achieve - I'm wondering how the look compares to Smoothscreen with PQ preferences if you've any (I'm not speaking of the full utilization of the panel with 2.35:1 films though I know that would help). Again this is probably not the thread, so consider this a request for a PM with your impressions if you feel up to it. I'll continue to snoop about.

But thanks for what you've told.

ted

Originally posted by Monkey_Man
Alright this has gone on too long

But, this is AVS Forums... doesn't everything to on too long? :D

n/m

Originally posted by Monkey_Man
The only issue withthe 300u and 500u was scan lines. Sometimes known as peek-a-boo screen door. This had nothing to do with the smoothscreen technology.
I'm not so sure that this extra layer doesn't decrease ANSI CR. It would be interesting to measure the ANSI CR on an AE700 and then another projector with the same Epson panels. I could measure the AE500 and a Z2, but I don't have a Z2. This wouldn't actually prove that anything about whether smoothscreen affects ANSI CR, since lenses and other things affect ANSI CR, but I think it would be interesting to know how these compare in that department (I'm still thinking the HS51 might have better ANSI than the AE700).

And I also think that without the smoothscreen a lot less people would see the peak-a-boo screendoor (since it would be mostly hidden behind static screendoor). I know that some people feel the static kind is less of an annoyance, since it becomes like white-noise after a while and so isn't noticed much. So, while the smoothscreen may not cause the peak-a-boo screendoor, it could easily have an effect on whether peak-a-boo screendoor is a problem for somebody or not. I've stated this before, but the peak-a-boo stuff isn't really a problem for me on the AE500. It was on the AE300 though.

--Darin

I concur on Smoothscreen. It makes the picture a touch less apparently sharp than, say, Sony's projector.

But it also makes the screendoor so much less apparent.

I am starting to think that given the segment it's going to be hard to justify the $1,000 extra for the Sony for most people.

Right now, I find two Sony features potentially compelling:
* Fixed-speed fan (perhaps)
* No rear light spill (key for table mount)
>> I think the Sony also has better CR based on my observations

But the Panasonic has:
* Better lamp life
* Much lower price
* Much reduced screendoor

One way of thinking about this for prospective buyers is that the Sony is probably 50% more expensive.

This is especially salient if you are going to move on in a year or two or three to a new projector. If you aren't, then it's probably easier to buy the Sony.

Anyway, those are just some random thoughts.

Originally posted by rogo
One way of thinking about this for prospective buyers is that the Sony is probably 50% more expensive.

I agree. I think part of it depends on where the buyer is coming from. I've mentioned it here before, but I think even somebody looking at the Sharp 12k should consider the HS51. I'm not as likely to recommend the AE700 to a person considering the 12k (who appreciates the CR there). These are just based on what I've seen so far. With some more testing I may change my mind. I guess my point is that for somebody starting at $2k the extra 50% can be pretty big, but for somebody already considering things above $4k the money between these two could be much less of a issue than which projector they prefer.

--Darin

Does anyone know about the de-interlacing abilities of the AE700? I'm always a little more comfortable about that when I see the name Faroudja associated with a projector, but the specs and reviews on this one have said nothing about it at all.

Does Smoothscreen Technology take care of that, too?

Steve Smallcombe stated that the deinterlacing of the l500u was excellent and looked very similar to the deinterlacing performed by the Denon 1600. Evan Powell also said the 500's deinterlacing is excellent. Hopefully Panasonic will be using the same deinteracer in the 700.

darinp2, rogo

The recent comments on the value of these various features are particularly appreciated.
Panasonic and Sony believe we in Canada exist in a parallel universe. As for the Hs20 and AE500, MRSP differences were more in the range of 10% so your comments are beneficial.

ted

Also, the Panasonic has much more flexibility in its application due to the longer throw and wider throw range. Very important if you want to put your projector behind the seating area.

Shouldn't 1:1 mapping be a lot more straight forward with dvi to hdmi as projector should pass native resolution of 1280 x 720 to pc. I guess there is still an issue with PAL vs NTSC refresh rate. If the pc can switch between 50hz for pal and 60hz for ntsc (or whatever is the appropriate refresh rate) at the given resolution of 1280 x 720 I guess that would potentially give you the optimum would it not.

On a related question - are there any dvd player with hdmi/dvi that pick up on projectors' native resolution ans map accordingly? WOuldn't this in thory be as good as using a htpc (assuming that you weren't planning do lots of processing using dscaler/other alternatives).

Just to concur with Master Houck. Because I'm dog lazy .. my projector "mount" consists of a shelf hanging from the ceiling, with the projector sitting on its upside down. Ugly Ugly Ugly. And it blocks the light in the room when not not using the projector.

For me .. a projector is a "toy". It doesn't have to be perfect. I have white walls .. so ANSI CR is out-the-window anyway. I have small children and when we are watching together .. the chances of being immersed in the movie are nil anyway (Daddy .. why did the daddy fish lose his son... Daddy.. why did the .... ).

In this case .. the ergonomics of the AE700 are appealing ... I can put it on the shelf behind me (and .. looks like I can't do that with the HS51.. darn). Contrast is not the "deal-breaker". Things like Vertical banding / colour-decoding / shading might be.

Each to their own priorities (as Darin P. has so often noted).

Ron

To me, one of the most significant features of the AE700 is the flexiblility of the lens. As far as I know, this is the first projector in it's class (720P, LCD, $2k) that has a long enough throw for my application.

Hopefully the production units will perform as well as the show units (reportedly) did.

Hi guys.. I`m new to this forum and i have just sold my z1.. now cruisin for my next machine and as the panny 700 is days away from release i`m anxious to hear from anyone who has seen both the 700 and the hitachi tx100 in action for a comparison.. Also, i have not seen ANY of the new generation 1280x720 machines in actoin so i would be really gratefull if anyone could describe for me how big a leap in PQ i can expect vs my old sanyo z1. i really like the tweaking options available in the hitachi but i dont wanna buy one if the panny is a quantum leap ahead in picture quailty and contrast. It seems nobody really knows just how big a difference in PQ there will be with the 700 vs the best units out right now in the price range which is a shame because somebody out there must have seen it in action. I am unfortunate enough to have seen rainbows on every type of dlp going so it`s lcd all the way for me now but contast is my main problem with lcd. I plan to keep whatever choice i make for at least 3 years so it is important that i get the best i can in the moment for under £1500. In short i need to know if units like the tx100, z2 and even the old panny 500 have reached a level of contrast that is now watchable without the old washed out blacks i used to get on the z1.. i`m not going to be too swayed by figures on spec sheets as I know these rarely translate into real world PQ. thanks in advance for anyone kind enough to respond....

New to the forum, hi guys

Welcome... now read the rules please. -MP


Looking forward to some reviews to say the VB is not a prob
The TX100 got the flick when was phoned the panny as avail yesterday - similar price

The long throw has put this projector at the top of my list. WAF has been a big problem in designing my home theatre. W would not like a projector on the coffee table or hanging from the ceiling. I think this projector could sit in a book shelf across from the screen. Of course the screen will need to be a pull down hidden in some sort of cornice on the ceiling.

man that WAF is a pain in the ass

Originally posted by fretlessmusic
man that WAF is a pain in the ass

First time I read Fret's response I read it as "man that W is a pain in the ass"... Gee, I thought, that's rude :D

All of you on the flexibility of the AE700 are very right. Between the lens shift (which is very capable although perhaps the Sony is equally capable -- we are not yet sure around here last I checked), the wide zoom range and the Smoothscreen, you have a lot of places to put the projector and your behind and could be happy.

It's probably correct that the real-world contrast of the Sony is significantly better than the Panasonic, but I'm also of the vein that more testing is needed to be sure.

I still might wind up with an HS51 instead of the AE700, but I am bridging until a small, mass-market 1920 x 1080 is out (the Qualia is too physically large for my needs, the JVC HD2K is both pricey and a little too small market to make me completely comfortable to stick with it; it's also not that bright) and intend to then keep that for a few years, probably with a permanent, hide-away-in-the-ceiling mount.

Since it could be 2-3 years, I want to really enjoy the interim choice, but I want it to be painless. If the Panasonic fan can be made to go to a fixed speed and the contrast is close to Sony, that's where I wind up. Others will choose the opposite.

Jeez, if rogo likes it, I may as well preorder now.

I'm pondering an upgrade to this from an L300u with about 500 hours on the bulb. (I'll ebay the L300U). For those few of you that have seen both in action: will my wife (who is only slightly more discriminating than the average non-AVS member when it comes to video quality) actually notice an improvement in picture quality with the upgrade? I know I will, because I'll be looking for it, but I wouldn't want to go drop a bunch of cash for a highly discretionary purchase like this unless at the end of it she's likely to say "wow! that *is* better!" right alongside me...

Thanks.

-tony

p.s. Our usage & environment: 96" wide hipower screen, 12' seating distance, 90% DVD with some HDTV special events, 90% light-controlled room.

Originally posted by tsteves
Jeez, if rogo likes it, I may as well preorder now.

Why?

Hi,

new to the forum. I am in the market for my first projector in about a month. Thought I would enter the fray. I, like a lot of other people I think, have narrowed my choices down to the panasonic AE700U and the Sony HS51. From what I'm reading, I'm leaning towards the panny. Unfortunately, none of my local stores seem to carry them. They all carry Sonys though.

Some of the salespeople have been saying the screen size I'm thinking about doing is too large for the room. It's 16x12 with seating at 11-12'. I was going to go with the 92" diagonal. Do you guys think that's too large? I think I'd be happy with something like a 84" if it gave me better PQ...

Oh, in case no one has posted this yet (hopefully this is not against forum rules), there is a pdf brochure of the AE700U I'm attaching. I had to delete the first and last page and compress it in order to come under the max file size. All the important info is still there though.

I have a question regarding setting up this unit with a computer.

Will I be better off with the 1280res of an LCD projector or the 850res of the 4805 if I want to play games and surf the net etc?

92" diagonal is NOT too large for either the projector or the seating distance IMO.

Thanks for the pdf. But when I try to open it I get a message the file is corrupted. It must drink and chase women! :)

Dan

FYI, I was able to open and read the PDF without problems. Mine must be the chaste, monogamous version.

By the way, there is a UK retailer who posts to another forum site, who says that he is guaranteed to receive shipment of his first batch of AE700s on Wednesday, September 29.

Are there any retailers who frequent this board? Have you heard about the US ship date?

The initial quantity of AE700's coming into the United States is expected to be under 100 pieces. This is due to the single world-wide item number (PT-AE700) rather than their typical two (L500/AE500). The world-wide release has caused somewhat of a difficulty in scheduling deliveries.
They should be available to purchase within a few weeks ... however, from what I am told, the orders are shipping to dealers FIFO (first in - first out) so you will find for the first month or so that only one or two dealers will really have any stocking quantities.
*Edit - this does NOT mean that everyone and their brother who write reviews/evaluates/resells Panasonic HT projectors won't have one or two in their shop within a week or two. I was purposely careful to say "stocking quantities". ;)

On a side topic, anyone have the mounting hole layout for the AE700???

And how about a Users Guide???

I've accepted that the claimed 5000 hr bulb life is probably optomistic and wonder what a realistic number is. What have owners of other Panny units ie, 100, 200, 300, 500 been getting?

Also, what is the price of these bulbs in Canada eh?

The dealer I talked to said they have 20 on order arriving in 2 weeks and 11 have been spoken for already.

About the zip file I posted, if you can't unzip it, try using winrar.

A local boutique shop said they have HS51 arriving in 30 days.

Thanks for the pdf. But when I try to open it I get a message the file is corrupted

worked for me (winzip)

Here's the full .pdf:

http://www.stansel.org/AE700E.pdf

Someone else posted that link on another forum. I apologize to whoever is paying for the bandwidth.

Me ;)

I just pre-ordered one through an AVS Forum sponsor (Projector People) and was told that 1000 were due to hit the USA by mid-October and that they were due to get 20% of the first shipment.

Apparently, I'm among the first 12 or so to pre-order one from them as of this writing. Very competitive pricing and refund policy from what I've seen so far and free shipping.

Unfortunately, that Carada Screen AVS Power-Buy 10% discount expires on Oct. 15, so even if the Panny arrives at or near the due date, I may not be able to check all parameters to make an intelligent decision about AR and screen size for my room set-up before I can take advantage of that Power-Buy discount.

I'm very reluctant to commit to a screen purchase until I've had a day or two of wall-testing with my first front projector.

Any chance of an extension on that Power-Buy deal due to the timing of these Panny AE700 arrivals?
:D :D :D

In Canada, we are getting these units at the end of October or the beginning of November. The $CDN MSRP has not been decided yet and will not be decided until they arrive (hopefully) the third week of October.

I have a preliminary $CDN MSRP of $4999 - the same as the $CDN MSRP for the AE500.

No idea on bulb pricing but I know there's a bulb shortage so that may affect pricing for the next few months.

I'm new to digital projectors, but pre-ordered a 700U based upon reading the reviews and posts on this forum.

We've had a HD Panasonic 34x50 Tau 16:9 for the past four years, so we're used to HD programming. I like the blacks and contrast and colors on our set, but a 34"diagonal isn't cutting it anymore. I was looking at plasmas and DLP rear projects (both Pannys), but the room we're setting up for a family room is best suited with a projector and I love the idea of a 92" diagonal screen for movies and football.

I'm researching screens now, and finding it a bit confusing and mine boggling. It sounds like certain screen types are better for projectors like this Panny (LCD) and others you need to stay away from.

Could some of you throw some pointers my way, or point me in the right direction, so I can research this without waisting a lot of time going in the wrong direction.

I'm wanting a 16:9 ratio, electric ceiling mounted. It can't come down any lower than about 52" from the ceiling, including screen and housing. I've found that most screens in the ratio I want and diagonal measurement will fit if the housing isn't too large. For instance one I saw is a 92" diagonal and is 80 x 45....adding the housing (4") it comes in under the 52".

However my biggest concern is the kind of screen material best suited for this projector. Is there an article out there that compares and contrast various characteristics?

Thanks in advance,

Bob

Bob, I'd definitely recommend a visit to the Screens forum here at AVS. That's where I started when I was ready to purchase my first projector (a Panny L300U). I ended up going with a DaLite High Power screen, which is great for high-gain and very wrinkle-resistant (good for pull-down). It has some minor downsides, but overall I'm very happy with my choice.

-tony

I may be incorrect, but I thought Mr. Alan Gouger was going to have a demonstration of the ae700 this week. Alan anything to share?

BOBP -
IMHO if your room is light controlled then Da-Lite 106" HCCV grey screen is the prpoer choice and just so happens to be the best priced screen to boot.

Originally posted by AugDog
I may be incorrect, but I thought Mr. Alan Gouger was going to have a demonstration of the ae700 this week. Alan anything to share?

I think Daniel was the one who said that he was going to see it. I PMed him earlier. He intends to post his review Saturday or Sunday.

reap

Your are right. My mistake.

Can't wait for Daniel's impressions.:D

Is anyone able to answer my question about running a pc and games and ps2?

Is one better of with a light controlled lcd at 1280 than a 852 dlp pj?

thanks

Originally posted by REWJR
BOBP -
IMHO if your room is light controlled then Da-Lite 106" HCCV grey screen is the prpoer choice and just so happens to be the best priced screen to boot.

Thanks for the reply!

Immediately after I posted this request I found the excellent screen reports/reviews posted by Tryg, one of which is http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=262466

My concern with the gray screens is that they will appear too dark to us. The white screens in his report are more appealing to me than the gray. I've heard this projector does pretty good with blacks and have wondered if gray is really the way to go. You guys have a lot more experience than me with this stuff, so your replies are being seriously considered. I just like a bright, colorful, high contrast picture and our present HD tube Panny provides that...that's why I'm concerned that we have as bright as possible with projection.

One of the screens reviewed by Tryg is a silver screen that appears awesome. I'm not sure if it's available in a 92" diagonal 16:9 electric or manual pull down. And....I'm wondering if it might be too bright for this projector at a viewing distance of 12-13 feet.

I've been looking at the Da-lite Model C w/CSR 45x80 manual high power and the Da-lite Cosmopolitan Electric 45x80 with high power....what do you think?

Also saw a good review of the Elite Home series 94"...but also read a negative review that IMHO seemed suspect according to the request for photos from others on the forum.

Between Da-Lite and Elite...which would be a good choice?

I'm wanting to keep costs below $1000 but would spend $1000 for the right screen.

Another question, when you get the measurement 45 x 80 does that include the housing. I only have 52" from the ceiling to the lowest point the screen can go down (it will sit directly above a desk that sits against the wall....home theater also doubles as an office...hey, you make due with the room you have LOL). I figure 45" + another 5" for the housing...I should be ok? Smaller housing the better.

Thanks again,
Bob

Originally posted by BobP
Thanks for the reply!

Immediately after I posted this request I found the excellent screen reports/reviews posted by Tryg, one of which is http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=262466

<Snip>

One of the screens reviewed by Tryg is a silver screen that appears awesome. I'm not sure if it's available in a 92" diagonal 16:9 electric or manual pull down. And....I'm wondering if it might be too bright for this projector at a viewing distance of 12-13 feet.

I've been looking at the Da-lite Model C w/CSR 45x80 manual high power and the Da-lite Cosmopolitan Electric 45x80 with high power....what do you think?

<Snip>

Another question, when you get the measurement 45 x 80 does that include the housing. I only have 52" from the ceiling to the lowest point the screen can go down (it will sit directly above a desk that sits against the wall....home theater also doubles as an office...hey, you make due with the room you have LOL). I figure 45" + another 5" for the housing...I should be ok? Smaller housing the better.

Thanks again,
Bob

Bob, I don't claim to have vast experience, but I've used a 106" diagonal DA-Lite Hi-Power in a light controlled room for four years and am very happy with it. The screen absolutely doesn't require tensioning and I've never seen a hot spot. That said, the pictures I've seen of the silver screen you referred to are impressive. I can't offer any advice other than to say I sincerely doubt it would be too bright. The eye just doesn't view brightness in a linear fashion -- meaning that twice as bright to a meter will not appear twice as bright to your eye. You will read tons of complaints around here about black levels or not bright enough -- but too bright from a 1,000 lumen projector, I don't think so.

With regard to the screen size, the 45X80 dimension is the viewing area of the screen. The viewing area is surrounded by a matte black material which absorbs any overscan. In my case the screen case is hung from a pair of six inch brackets which position the screen material about 5" from the wall with the black masking beginning about 7 1/2" from the ceiling. I think you would need at least a couple of inches of masking at the top because the screen pulls down an extra inch or two and then retracts to the locked position. Assuming you hang a manual case the way I do mine, you don't appear to have enough room for even a relatively small 45X80 screen. Maybe the time has come to do some serious furniture re-arranging -- or re-think the whole front projector idea?

Jeff

BobP,

As far as I know the SilverStar is only available in a fixed panel (rigid backing of some sort). In addition I believe they retail for much higher than $1k.

Peace,

BobP,
I PM'd you to avoid taking this thread too far off-topic.

Originally posted by BobP

I'm wanting a 16:9 ratio, electric ceiling mounted. It can't come down any lower than about 52" from the ceiling, including screen and housing. I've found that most screens in the ratio I want and diagonal measurement will fit if the housing isn't too large. For instance one I saw is a 92" diagonal and is 80 x 45....adding the housing (4") it comes in under the 52".


Bob

BobP
Your 52" down from the ceiling might need more details. How far up from the floor do you want the bottom edge of the screen to be? Typically you want the bottom edge of the screen below eye level. Ideally, I've heard eyes at 1/3 mark of the vertical.

Whatever, I wouldn't want to always have to crane upwards to look at the screen.

I'll PM to reponses on the screen for the 700U....so as not to throw the thread off too much....sorry, and thanks.

I'm planning for a new setup around AE700. Has anybody seen specs for projected image location? Mainly I'm interested in vertical offset information so I know how far down from the ceiling the PJ would have to be for known screen size and location.

thanks

tlukkarila - with both horizontal and vertical lens shift, you should have more than enough flexibility with regards to placement of the AE700 relative to your screen. That said, I haven't seen the specs yet on how much above the top of your screen the projector could be placed without resorting to keystoning...

i'm pretty sure that the lens shift on the 700 allows you to place the projector anywhere within 63% of the screen height (from screen center.) i guess looked at a different way that means you can place the unit 13% of the screen height above or below the screen. so for a 52" high screen you could place the lens a maximum of 6.75" above the top of the screen.

Broadway, do you have any documentation to back that up?

reap

Reap,
On the PDF file posted earlier in the thread it lists the "projection range."

I read it as 63% from the screen bottom or top, not the center, for a total vertical range of 2.26 times screen height.

broadwayblue is correct. The offset is 63% from the center of the lens. As he stated, this translates into the top of the screen being a maximum of 13% picture hight below the lens.

Horst

Does anyone know how long the warranty will be on the AE 700?

Then why does the pdf show a 2.26V for the total range? It doesn't add up.

I have a 7 1/2 foot ceiling and a quick measurement looks like about a 7-9 inch drop for the top of the screen to be ideal for my viewing (bottom third of the screen at eye level). I am making a flush mount for the ae700 but that will still drop the center of the lens about 6 inches off the ceiling. So that ends up at about 2-3 inches from the top of the screen to the center of the lens. With a maximum of 6 3/4" I should be just fine correct?

As far as distance back, the zoom feature allows lots of variance so I should be able to mount at 15ft back for a 98" diagonal 16:9 image right?

Jcam9....yes, 2-3 inches should be no problem. but just to clarify...the 6 3/4" distance above (or below) the screen is for my example of a 106" diagonal screen (52" screen height.) for your 98" diagonal screen you will have a height of 48"...so you can go 6 1/4" above the screen, which is still more than enough for your situation.

as far as what effect (if any) utilizing the lens shift to the max has on image quality that still remains to be seen. i have seen reports (on other models) that have suggested maxing out the lens shift can have adverse effects on image quality. we will need to get some reports on whether this applies to the panny.

Is there a link to a user's manual for the 700 yet?

Originally posted by Borg
Then why does the pdf show a 2.26V for the total range? It doesn't add up.


The 2.26 range is the top of the maximum height (i.e. 0.63 up) to the bottom of the minimum height (0.63 down). The screen height is 1 so 0.63 + 0.63 + 1 = 2.26.

Broadwayblue was correct that the projector can be mounted a maximum of 13% screen height above or below the projected image.

If you have a screen that is 45" high, then the total range (as depicted by the diagram -- 2.26v) should be 2.26*45 which is 101.7".

13% of 45 is 5.85". Using your calculation then the total range would be 45 + 5.85 + 5.85 = 56.7".

There is a disconnect somewhere.....I guess Dan will have to test it out for us. I would agree that 2.26v seems like a lot...but I'm sticking to my story!

Another thing about the lens shift that I was wondering about is the fact that it is probably affected by the amount of zoom you are using. The pdf brochure doesn't say anything about it. Maybe the users manual will.

The way I read the PDF the 63% started at the top and bottom edges, or 28.3" above or below the screen. (80x45 screen)

In the same way I read it as 25% of screen width for the horizonal shift from the screen edged. Or in this case, 20" OUTSIDE either edge.

You can't seem to combine both extremes however. So long as you stay within the edges in one dimension, you can go to the extreme in the other.

The is feature, combined with the 2x zoom, is huge. Lets hope the reviews answer the picture quality questions.

Right,
The pdf I looked at is pretty clear on page 7. You can go 63% screen height up, or 63% down, from the lens being dead center perpendicular from the screen. Making the total range more than double the screen height. In other words, the bottom of the screen with shift max'd up is HIGHER than the top of the screen with shift all the way down. That's a nice chunk of flexibility! It is also true that you can't max vertical and horz shift at the same time in any combo of directions.

I assume this is the same pdf everyone else is looking at. I won't paste a link because its a vendor website, but I doubt it's hard to find.

-Jason

Actually, EVERYONE is right.

The Proj can be position 13% from the top or 13 % from the bottom, which correlates to 63% from dead center perpendicular to the screen.

when moving the projecor in that range from -63 to zero to +63 one can achieve a range of 2.26 picture heights difference from bottom of low end range to top of high-end range.

Some people are arguing "how much can the top of the pic move?" and think they are hearing an answer of 13%, which is wrong, its 63%.

Others are arguing "how much can the lens be from the top of screen", and hearing 63%, which is wrong, cuz its 13% from the TOP of the image.

Originally posted by rwestley
Does anyone know how long the warranty will be on the AE 700?

Any vendor I've seen that has it listed on their web site, states it as one year... same as the 500 in most cases.

Originally posted by rwestley
Does anyone know how long the warranty will be on the AE 700?

Visual Apex rep told me it is three years (hope he's right)

The dealer comparison on Projector Central all list a one year warranty, including visual apex.

Originally posted by jasallen
Actually, EVERYONE is right.

The Proj can be position 13% from the top or 13 % from the bottom, which correlates to 63% from dead center perpendicular to the screen.

when moving the projecor in that range from -63 to zero to +63 one can achieve a range of 2.26 picture heights difference from bottom of low end range to top of high-end range.

Some people are arguing "how much can the top of the pic move?" and think they are hearing an answer of 13%, which is wrong, its 63%.

Others are arguing "how much can the lens be from the top of screen", and hearing 63%, which is wrong, cuz its 13% from the TOP of the image.

Good post. I think I just need to imagine that the projector is staying still and the picture is moving according to the diagram. I was imagining the projector moving throughout that range with the picture staying still. That's not very much horizontal shift...

I was told by the rep from Visual Apex that he was not sure of the Warranty length that is why I asked the question. The site does say 1 year but I had hoped that it would be 3 like the Sanyo. The Panasonic
site does not give information.

Well, just pulled the trigger on this puppy. Ordered from Projector People. He said they hoped to have an initial shipment of 25-80 units by the week of October 8th. He said 25 units have been allocated already. They also hoped to have a second shipment by the first week of November.

I just talked to a rep from "projector people" about the warranty.

He said that for some other projector (I think it was the 500), they had bought enough projectors from panasonic that they were given free 3-year warranties on all of them. They had considered doing this for the 700, but ended up deciding that it was more important to keep their price competive with other retailers, so the 2 and 3 year warranties are still available, but they cost a little more. (click on the "accessories" link to find them).

I know not everything in that paragraph lines up completely, but I think I understand a little more about manufacturer warranties now. I guess the retailers must have options about what warranties will come with the projectors.

I still have my order at VA. I notice that some of their warranties are cheaper than projector people, but some are more expensive (depending on term length).

Do these warranties usually cover bulb replacements? If they do, then I think they are definately worth the price, if you will be using the projector for day-to-day television watching.

Originally posted by chriscmore
Does the 700 have a sealed light engine like the BenQ 8700, or might it be open to dust blob issues like the Z2?
I'll change or clean filters, but noticing and chasing dust blobs is a deal breaker for me. I want low maintenance.
Current top of my list is the 8700+, but am really curious as to how the 700 and Sony's HS51 compete.
Cheers,
Chris

No, and the general rule of thumb (in the sub-$10k models) is LCD projectors can't have sealed optics because of cooling problems.

DLP can ... LCD can't.
There was actually a pretty neat article a while back on "why" you can't seal optics in an LCD projector ... if you were up to a search ;)

Just noticed the PT-AE700U is finally up on the Panasonic USA site Here (http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=72987&catGroupId=21360&modelNo=PT-AE700U&surfModel=PT-AE700U)

Nothing much new except:
Lamp life up to 3000 hrs.
Replacement lamp cost: $360.00

Still couldn't find a user manual.

Regarding Panasonic warranties, it sounds like this will be the first front projector for a few of us.

What are the opinions with regard to buying that extended warranty?

Panasonic includes a 1 year warranty. But if the 2nd year could be bought for, say, an additional $100 and a 2nd and 3rd year could be bought for, say, $200, would it be highly recommended for us to go for it?

Any comments are welcome.

Originally posted by hitchfan
Regarding Panasonic warranties, it sounds like this will be the first front projector for a few of us.

What are the opinions with regard to buying that extended warranty?

Panasonic includes a 1 year warranty. But if the 2nd year could be bought for, say, an additional $100 and a 2nd and 3rd year could be bought for, say, $200, would it be highly recommended for us to go for it?

Any comments are welcome.

My comment and opinion would be, a two or three year warranty would not be of any concern for a projector purchase, by this time next year or even less, the AE-900 or the Sanyo Z4 would be coming out, I would ebay my AE-700 just before the new PJ's came out and do an upgrade.
For me personally to keep the same projector for over a year would be an impossibility, I have never even had to buy a replacement bulb for any of my projectors as I don't keep them long enough to burn out a bulb. And also the sweet deal is I most of the time ebay a projector out and the only money I lose from my purchase price is usually what the replacement bulb would have cost. Anyhow it works nicely for me that way, I always have a new projector with a new bulb and I only lose about $400.00 on average (the price of most replacement bulbs).

Davyo

I am going to go to the complete opposite ...
WAF is a difficult enough challenge to overcome. I plan on keeping the projector for at least 4-5 years. Which means, yes, for me the warranty is a very good value. Especically considering most projector repairs average well over $500 ... very typically in the range of $1000.

And when I am ready to replace the projector, even if it is only 2 years down the road ... the old one is going into the kids room as a gaming display.

**** EDIT ****
In an effort to NOT add another post that would make this thread off-topic, I will add a thought here.
jasallen has a good point below:
May even make me change my mind on this one item... but I still hope on most things people avoid these extended warranties like the plague.

This is perfect here ... don't mistake my post as saying the extended warranty is a good thing PERIOD. It is a good thing for a front projector ...
In general, an extended warranty is phooey.
But again, on a projector I would recommend it. Thanks for pointing this out jasallen.

In general (that's your clue to ignore this if you want to) but...

IN GENERAL, consumer advocates always advise avoiding 'extended warranties' on consumer electronics because the likelihood of repair * cost of repair is less than cost of warranty. We know this is true because those selling the warranties wouldn't make money if it weren't true.

That said, if it's worth your piece of mind, that's your decision.

oh, and lest anyone should think it, I want to shoot down the argument that Extended Warranties are a 'value add' and that they aren't a profit source for the warranty providers(usually retailers) -- Extended Warranties are a HUGE CASH COW in all flavors of Consumer Electronics (and other things like cars and furniture too).

-Jason

Originally posted by davyo
For me personally to keep the same projector for over a year would be an impossibility [...] I only lose about $400.00 on average.
You can't possibly be married then ;). That sort of yearly budget just for the display device seems out of the ordinary and would quickly be shot down by most domestic bosses I know. I'm sure you refresh other parts of your HT as well, so what's your total yearly HT "refreshment" budget then?

Very good, very recent article outlining when you might want an extended warranty. http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/general/2004-08-26-mym_x.htm

May even make me change my mind on this one item... but I still hope on most things people avoid these extended warranties like the plague.

I don't intend to get this thread off-topic, but this is germaine to the AE700. Basically, I'm thinking of projecting a (smallish) 55" 16:9 image on my wall with the AE700 (between the windows - see attached pic).

This will keep costs down initially and *HOPEFULLY* keep brightness high enough to make daytime viewing at least tolerable (eventually I'd get a 106" pull-down screen). At night, I should have NO problem. I don't watch much TV during the day, but I'd like it at least *tolerable* when I did. 'Perfection' will be reserved for movies (which I watch only at night), and I could always get drapes. Right now though, the room is NOT light controlled, as you'll see from the picture. I'm hoping the AE700 will be bright enough.

Should I just put this pipe-dream away now, or wait and see? I'm thinking of pre-ordering one of these.

NavinJ , sorry but you will need drapes (for any PJ)

I agree with norpus

If you need a copy of the users manual for the AE700 in PDF ... send me a PM. I can email it to you.
A big heavy thanks to Panasonic for coming through so quickly on my request!

I agree with price.

I tried a similar thing with a Sanyo Z1, a 40-inch screen and windows much farther away.

Does the word "Yuck!" resonate with you? That's what is was.

Nice work Ericbres. You're going to be busy.

davyo
How do you manage to sell for $400 less than you pay?
Reset the bulb and sell it as having a new one, or are those ebay bidders really that stooopid? $400 a year is not bad at all to continually have a new pj in the house!

Latest word on my pre-order is mid-October. Anyone hearing anything different?

Ericbres, you have a pm from me.

Thanks to Ericbres for offering to e-mail the manual, but there is now a link on the Panasonic web site: Here (http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=72987&catGroupId=21360&modelNo=PT-AE700U&surfModel=PT-AE700U)

Ericbres, you can disregard the PM I sent you.

Thanks again!

Ericbres, me too on the pm. thnx for offering.

Well the first thing that I noticed in the manual is that the lense shift becomes more limited on the opposing access as you move to the extremes of other axis. This was unexpected, but makes sense give the joystick design. From the cedia setup, it does not sound like the HS51 has the same limitation. The range would be represented by box for the HS51 rather than a diamond as in the AE700. Anyone know differently?

I don't need a whole lot of horizontal shift, but I think it may be tight given my setup. May call of a little modfication in the cabinet design.

I just looked at my E-mail and was informed from my local Panasonic dealer that he may have a unit in the shop by this friday. I'll have to stop by and take a look at it. They also have a Z2 setup, so I can compare the two units. Glad I did not buy the Infocus 4805 that Costco is now stocking, on a impulse buy. Although the price was really good, and it comes with the 76 inch screen that they had with the 4800 when they were selling it

Based on this thread I'm pretty sure that the 700 will be my next projector, assuming that when I actually see it in action it will live up to the expectations created by the many rave reviews here.

However, I just saw a picture of it at Secrets. Man, this thing is uuuguleeeee! Sheesh, its got a face only a mother could love. Oh well, I'm going to be sitting in a dark room with it anyways, and maybe I'll grow to like it.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_3/cedia-2004/show-report-cedia-2004-page-3.html

Originally posted by mikeyc
However, I just saw a picture of it at Secrets. Man, this thing is uuuguleeeee! Sheesh, its got a face only a mother could love. Oh well, I'm going to be sitting in a dark room with it anyways, and maybe I'll grow to like it.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_3/cedia-2004/show-report-cedia-2004-page-3.html

First, you really think so? Admittedly it is very basic in its design, but I don't find it remarkably attractive or unattractive

Second, does it really matter? Just hope it throws the image that we are all hoping for.

davyo, Ericbres and jasallen, thanks for the input on buying the extended warranty for the AE700.

I usually resist buying extended warranties but have done it a few times. My first big screen TV 12 years ago, my first laptop computer, my Sony Mega-changer DVD player...

Come to think of it, I was really glad I had the extended warranty two out of three of those times (the laptop and the Sony).

Maybe I'll split the difference and only get the second year.

I just pre-order mine today. Should have it in my hot little hands on 11 Oct 2004 :)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mikeyc
[B]Based on this thread I'm pretty sure that the 700 will be my next projector, assuming that when I actually see it in action it will live up to the expectations created by the many rave reviews here.

However, I just saw a picture of it at Secrets. Man, this thing is uuuguleeeee! Sheesh, its got a face only a mother could love. Oh well, I'm going to be sitting in a dark room with it anyways, and maybe I'll grow to like it.

Mikeyc, now that you have shown me that jpg at cedia, I have to agree with you. It's a pig.
I suppose I'll get the choice come end October when I'll have the looks of my racy bugeyed TX100 and the picture of my AE700 to compare :D Sheesh it's tough. And the boss, she thinks this is a new business in HT I've started - boy will she be surprised when it suddenly folds and I'm left with all this 'demo' HT gear... so sad really:D
I will let you know my impression s of the comparo when it happens.

On the subject of good signal feed to the AE700, would you recommend DVI as a must or is component good enough?
I'm thinking a Momitsu V880N DVD which is getting good reviews here in Oz
Anyone got one hooked up to their 1280x720 PJ?

Originally posted by tsteves
davyo
How do you manage to sell for $400 less than you pay?
Reset the bulb and sell it as having a new one, or are those ebay bidders really that stooopid? $400 a year is not bad at all to continually have a new pj in the house!

Every PJ I have sold I have never sold for less than $400.00 below my original purchase price, I look at it as a rental fee, each year I upgrade to a new PJ instead of paying the price for a new bulb.
As far as re-setting the bulb hours and selling the projector as having a new bulb,,WOW, how very very very uncool of you to even suggest doing that to someone.
And Please don't remove this reply as being off subject on the AE-700 thread but this needs to be said.
To turn back bulb hours to sell a PJ is ripping somebody off, and you, "tsteves" suggested doing that, how very sad that is the way you think, you do not need to be on this forum, you are to stooopid to get it, ripping people off is bad, did you not get the memo ?
I have been on this forum for years and I have never been pissed at anyone ever, I am so pissed off at you for the suggestion of turning back bulb hours to sell a PJ, is this a personal slam to you, YES IT IS.

Do you get it ????????????????????????
Davyo

Jeez, I was just kidding. My apologies...

Originally posted by norpus
On the subject of good signal feed to the AE700, would you recommend DVI as a must or is component good enough?
I'm thinking a Momitsu V880N DVD which is getting good reviews here in Oz
Anyone got one hooked up to their 1280x720 PJ?


Can anyone tell me exactly what cable I need to go from a DVI source (computer with Radeon card) to the AE700u and is it bad to have really long DVI cables? I looked at pcCables.com but they only have two types of DVI to HDMI cables (which I believe is what we need for this projector?):

DIGITAL DVI-D-M to PREMIUM HDMI CABLE
DIGITAL DVI-D-M to HDMI CABLE

And the longest one is just 15 feet! I need more like 40 feet. Should I just go VGA instead?

I think vga is analog only
DVI only allows short runs, so you may need to situate your dvd player under the PJ like I plan to (a pain I agree)

....check your PMs....

Thanks,

Bob

Trader,

DVI cables can be had in much longer lengths than 15ft. Try forum sponsers (links at top of page) and bluejeanscable.com amoung others.

Originally posted by TraderGordo
Can anyone tell me exactly what cable I need to go from a DVI source (computer with Radeon card) to the AE700u and is it bad to have really long DVI cables? I looked at pcCables.com but they only have two types of DVI to HDMI cables (which I believe is what we need for this projector?):

DIGITAL DVI-D-M to PREMIUM HDMI CABLE
DIGITAL DVI-D-M to HDMI CABLE

And the longest one is just 15 feet! I need more like 40 feet. Should I just go VGA instead?

My opinion?
Get the Premium DVI-D to HDMI and get a DVI-D line amplifier.
Run DVI from your Radeon into the Amp, and then run the DVI/HDMI from the amp into your projector. It is a heck of alot easier to find a home for a line amp within 15' of a projector than moving your source all the way over there. And the AMP will keep your signal clean over the long run and cable change-over.

Looks like Panasonic posted the manual. I'm too new to post a real link, so go to Panasonic's website and look for it. Be sure to go to the Business side, it's not showing up in Consumer

catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=72987&catGroupId=21360&displayTab=R&surfModel=PT-AE700U&surfCategory=Home%20Theater%20Projectors

Look for the "Operating Instructions" link on the right side.

Read the forum rules.

Originally posted by Ericbres
[B]My opinion?
Get the Premium DVI-D to HDMI and get a DVI-D line amplifier.

Ok, the amp that I found costs more than one grand. I'm struggling to be able to afford the projector alone. Do you have any hints about a cheaper way to find an amp?

On a side note, does anyone know what cables will come with the AE700?

hmmm.. I just noticed something interesting in the user's manual.

The intended lamp replacement interval is 3000 hours, but it is possible that the lamp may need to be replaced earlier due to variables such as a particular lamp's characteristics, usage conditions and the installation environment. The lamp will automatically shut off after approximately 30 minutes when 3000 hours of use have been reached because of a much greater chance of it exploding after this time.

Of course, I find this surprising because it seems Panasonic made a big deal out of the fact that the bulb can last up to 5000 hours in economy mode.

That's 3000hrs in high lamp mode, probably will be more like 5000hrs in low lamp mode

Andy.

Yup, from what I was told, the counter will adjust itself if you have the projector in low lamp mode.

As far as the amp, I saw one for ~$150 at the CEDIA show. I'll go thru my paperwork when I get home tonight and find the name of the company. It was also a switcher, which could throw in some added value. I'll edit my post when I find it.

**** EDIT ****
I found my stuff, didn't realize I had brought it all into work.
In any case, I apologize, I must have been thinking of their component switcher because the DVI seems to be like $300 from my notes. It came from Zektor. It was similar to this model (http://www.zektor.com/dvs51/index.htm) only with less inputs ... I believe it was 3 in/1 out and it would be shipping by November.

DVIGEAR (http://www2.dvigear.com/dvi1x2splitter.html) also has a 1 in/2 out DVI splitter that also amplified the signal for ~$250 that was at the show.

Again, my apologies. I thought I remembered them being around $150 ... looks like they are double that. Sorry for the misleading info.

Thanks. Does anyone know if the warranties will cover replacement bulbs?

Originally posted by zAndy12
That's 3000hrs in high lamp mode, probably will be more like 5000hrs in low lamp mode Andy.
Only problem with that, I believe, is that dynamic iris is only available in high lamp mode and I think this has been said earlier in the thread.

ted

Originally posted by Ericbres
. I'll go thru my paperwork when I get home tonight and find the name of the company. It was also a switcher, which could throw in some added value. I'll edit my post when I find it.

Please Eric - I would be interested as well if it were indeed a switcher.

ted

Originally posted by davyo
I have been on this forum for years and I have never been pissed at anyone ever, I am so pissed off at you for the suggestion of turning back bulb hours to sell a PJ, is this a personal slam to you, YES IT IS.

Do you get it ????????????????????????
Davyo

Hey Davyo, give the guy a break! I read his post, and I did not in any way get the impression that he was advocating or suggesting such practices.

It was more like he was so amazed that you could sell a year-old projector for only $400 less than you paid, that the only explanation would be that there was something fishy going on... (Or that irrational eBay bid-mania was to blame...)

That's how I read it...

- Frank

PS. I am equally amazed.....

Originally posted by Ericbres

DVIGEAR (http://www2.dvigear.com/dvi1x2splitter.html) also has a 1 in/2 out DVI splitter that also amplified the signal for ~$250 that was at the show.

Again, my apologies. I thought I remembered them being around $150 ... looks like they are double that. Sorry for the misleading info.

That's fine. I thought that $150 seemed a little low. The listing for the 1 -> 2 amp doesn't mention how it is powered. Does it plug into a wall socket?

The amp that I saw was a 8 -> 2 switcher, I believe. That's why it was $1200.

$250 is too much for me. I think I heard that the high quality cables have very little noise up to 50'. The standard cables are rated up to 15', and I need 20. I think I'll just get a 20', and just hope the sparkles aren't too bad.


-------------------------------------

Does anyone know if the AE 700 comes with any cables?
Does anyone know if the AE 700 warranty covers replacement bulbs?

Well, I found the repeater substantially less than $250. The part number is ext-hdtv141. You can search for it on froogle.google.com, or your favorite pricesearch page.

Moderators, are we allowed to post pricing for cables, repeaters, etc? I still haven't figured out exactly what is allowed here.

Potus,
That is exactly what I meant.
I was just being facetious. I guess it does not come through very well in plain text.

Originally posted by SingleA
Does anyone know if the AE 700 comes with any cables?
Does anyone know if the AE 700 warranty covers replacement bulbs?
Cables? The brochure says 3m AV cable... whatever THAT means ;) In the manual it looks like a composite cable. Don't bother with that one.
Bulbs on warranty? Not likely, most MFG's have a separate 90 day warranty.

Cables and all, yes. Projectors, no.

I just read something i do not like at all!!

From the AE700 user manual page 18:

Note:
Lens shift.
"Generally the maximum picture quality is obtained when the lens is moved to center (Horisontally and vertically)"

So this means that i wont use lens shift. Too bad.

But on the positive side this projector handles 1080 in 50hz and 720p in 50hz!! This has been a problem for pal dvd's on AE500. But 720 50hz doesnt work on the vga port, only component and hdmi(dvi). 1080 50hz will work on component vga and hdmi(dvi).

Madpoet can you tell me how to upload pictures?

the only advantage that lens shift has over kestone is it doesn't skew the picture
the fact that you can shift in two planes is a definate plus not everyone has ideal mounting locations.

Originally posted by gundyrat1
the only advantage that lens shift has over kestone is it doesn't skew the picture
the fact that you can shift in two planes is a definate plus not everyone has ideal mounting locations.

Yes i know that keystoning sucks, but what does skew mean? And lensshifting does something bad with the picture it states. But what does it do?

Whoah, step back!

First, let's assume that we are discussing single axis digital keystoning. That's usually the way it works. Also, let's assume that we are just stretching the picture in the horizontal direction.

So, digital keystoning just requires the projector to resample the horizontal line at a slightly different rate than normal. That's simple. Each pixel ends up in exactly the right place. The picture is not skewed at all.

The problems with digital keystoning are:
1) you aren't using all the pixels of the projector, so you are wasting lumens
2) you aren't using the native resolution. This makes a difference if you're reading fonts generated by a pc.
3) digital keystoning doesn't correct the focus. So, the top of the picture will be focused different than the bottom.

I believe that lense shift corrects all 3 of those problems. It also allows you to keystone in more than one axis.

Hey, maybe we need to consolidate threads again.

This exact same topic (lens shift) is at this very moment also being discussed on the OTHER ae700 thread...

'Only problem with that, I believe, is that dynamic iris is only available in high lamp mode and I think this has been said earlier in the thread'.

So what are the implications of that for contrast ratio, I'll be using low lamp mode purely to keep the fan noise down so this could be a big deal for me!

Cheers
Andy

Originally posted by potus
Hey Davyo, give the guy a break! I read his post, and I did not in any way get the impression that he was advocating or suggesting such practices.

It was more like he was so amazed that you could sell a year-old projector for only $400 less than you paid, that the only explanation would be that there was something fishy going on... (Or that irrational eBay bid-mania was to blame...)

That's how I read it...

- Frank

PS. I am equally amazed.....


Ok, maybe I was a little harsh and I apologize to tsteves, he did reply back with.
"Jeez, I was just kidding. My apologies..."
Turning back bulb hours on a PJ to sell it is a real bad subject for me as I have had someone try and do that to me before and I have heard of it done to others.
Sorry for snapping at you tsteves, I'm glad you were only kidding, and I do apologize. (I will PM you as well)

Ok, back on subject, my dilemma, Im so wanting to get the AE-700 but golly the Z3 is starting to look really good as well, the Z3 is now stating 2000.1 CR and has HDMI with 2 component inputs.
Am I the only one on the fence on this one ?

Davyo

Most of us just can't wait for the Z3. :)

Clearly my interpretation of the AI - Lamp Power issue differs from other people's.

My understanding is that in AI mode both the iris and lamp power are modulated. Therefore turning the lamp to "low power" mode ruins this because you are locking in one of those variables. The questions I have are:

A) If, against Panny advise, you use low lamp mode, can you still use the iris for some (lesser) benefit?

B) Does the panny have some sort of 'ambient light' sensor, so that the AI uses lower power itself in controlled lighting? And, brighter light when that is needed?

C) When the AI has the lamp turned lower is that slowing the replacement clock as well or is the clock churning away as if the lamp were at full blast?

D) With AI off, is the iris manually adjustable?

**Edit** One more question:

E) Given that unlike the 500 this one is designed from the ground up as a home theatre unit, should we have hope that lumens spec is more accurate than the 500's was? I'm hoping that since it was ground-up a HT PJ, that the specs might have been determined in more theatre-like, less presentation-like conditions (like InFocus claims to have done)

Daniel's thread is closed. Please continue discussion here. The original thread can be found at:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4407288

From projectorcentral.com:

"We currently have the Panasonic AE700 in the lab, and we expect to post the review by mid-next week."

Yaaaa!!!

But for now... let's hear Daniel's review...

Originally posted by zAndy12
So what are the implications of that for contrast ratio, I'll be using low lamp mode purely to keep the fan noise down so this could be a big deal for me!

Cheers
Andy

You would get the fixed contrast - is that mentioned in the .PDF?. I believe some have speculated about 1000:1. View the dynamic iris as a window that moves the initial ON/OFF CR (not ANSI CR) throughout a range that the iris would allow by lowering the light output in darker scenes. Whites do not get whiter, blacks get darker.

Some AVS threads:
here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=447099&highlight=dynamic+iris)
here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=449700&highlight=dynamic+iris)
and
here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=447341&highlight=dynamic+iris)

A search on this and the big buck thrread will reveal more.

hope this helps
ted

""Generally the maximum picture quality is obtained when the lens is moved to center (Horisontally and vertically)"

So this means that i wont use lens shift. Too bad."

Don't jump to conclusions. It depends on exactly how much the difference is between maximum quality and lesser, could be insignificant to a lot.

From the closed thread:
Originally posted by Scott B
Do not believe manufacturer's specifications. The real-world on-off CR of the Z2 is around 400-500:1 and the Epson Cinema 500 is about 1000:1. Who knows what the AE700 will turn out to be. The real world ANSI CR is likely in the order of 300-400:1 for all three projectors with the Cinema 500 most likely having the highest ANSI CR due to superior optics.

Scott, just wondering where you got the 300-400:1 for ANSI CR for these. That sounds very high. My AE500 lens was dirty the last time I looked at ANSI so the results may have been skewed, but measuring the center of the screen showed a much, much lower number. I haven't done a full ANSI CR test on it. The 300-400:1 sounds about right for DLPs though.

--Darin

Ok, I've seen it :)

It premiered today at a local dealer in Stockholm, Sweden. Seems like one of the first ones to get them all around.

So here are my impressions from seeing it:

I think I firstly have to tell you that I own a benq pe 7800, which is a matterhorn DLP, and it will work as my reference point. I actually when and saw the sanyo z2 together with the epson models 200 and 500 just a day ago to be able to really compare it to other LCD:s.

So why do I check it out more than for curiosity? Cause I have some small problems with rainbows and sometimes eyestrain from DLP. However I have not yet seen a LCD that has been good enough for me to not live with it.

So now to the AE700:
Is it the best LCD I've ever seen?....YES! Absolutly!

I really checked the market out a couple of months ago and saw almost each and every LCD out there, together with seeing some of them just yesterday. What really hits you with the AE700 is the constrast, it really is an improvement. The second thing that hits you is the lack of SDE.

So now to the contrast and the blacks!:
I did not see it in totaly perfect conditions, the room was pretty dark but there was a little bit of ambient light present but I have to tell you it was without no doubt the best contrast and blacks I've seen on a LCD projector. My DLP is specified at 2000:1 contrast just as this one and I have to say that the blacks are very good, but not fully on par with my DLP.

My biggest problem wih LCD:s has been the SDE, together with VB. It makes the picture somehow feel "dirty" in my eyes, its like you dont see the SDE on a certain distance but you somehow feel the color stain of it which makes it feel as said..."dirty". So AE700 with its smoothtech comes in, and yes it really makes a difference in my eyes, the SDE is almost non-existant and the picture feel just better in my eyes than other LCD:s.

So to the second big problem for me and LCD: VB...and DAMN...sorry..yes.. It exists on the AE700 as well. Its not very much, but its still there.

The overall picture carries quite a punch and the colors seems really full and natural. Coped together with really good blacks it makes it a winner, most definetly the best LCD I've seen as I said in the start.

Some small things I found out through the main distributor in Sweden:
The automization for the contrast DOES work in low lamp mode!! It has been speculated that it would not, but thats not the case. The difference between low and high mode was also not very distinctive at all, and the punch in the picture was really there in low mode.

There are no controls in the menues to adjust VB (as in sanyo z3)

They had no good answers regarding dust problems other than "they had thought of it when they built it and that it should be better"

So finaly, is this the LCD that will make me sell my DLP and switch?
No, its not. It was superp, but not THAT superb.

If I would buy an LCD today it would however directly be the AE700.

thanks for the review...how was the brightness? you mentioned the room had some ambient light...i assume you felt the projector handled it well?

also, what size screen was it shown on (and do you know what kind?) and what was your viewing distance?

The brighness was very good, it felt like about 800 ansi in low lamp mode. Was very much punch in the picture.

It was shown on a "high contrast" 104" screen with 1.0 gain. I was at about 11-13 feet away.

Thanks Havocsi for the great review. I had a Z2 and I am concerned with the VB problem. I know it is still there but how bad is it in comparison to
other LCD machines you have seen.

The only recent LCD I have seen is the sony HS20. Does the Sony have the VB as well? (Just trying to find some point of comparison for what I have seen.)

I have gotten so excited about this new projector as the only objection I had to the Sony HS20 was the contrast level and less than optimal blacks.

rwestley:

The VB was less visable than most LCD:s I've seen. It felt like an improvement over the predecessor speficially (ae500). It was as I said however still there, I dont know if im the best person to judge it since im pretty sensitive regarding VB and its one of my biggest gripes with LCD.

Most people whom where there that go to a big Swedish avs forum noticed the VB, but also thought like me that it "was not that bad" and "you could notice it but definetly not a problem" etc.

Thanks Havocsi for your quick reply I hope that there is no a VB problem from unit to unit. It was a major problem with the Z2 and the AE 500 for me. I was finally able to get it nearly out of my Z3 unit after having Sanyo adust it. I am very interested in the Panasonic 700 that is why I appreciated you review and input.

Thanks again.

So MP, are you going thinking about jumping on one of these?

Later,
Bill

First reviews of this PJ on UK forum - http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154106

Originally posted by Havocsi
Some small things I found out through the main distributor in Sweden:
The automization for the contrast DOES work in low lamp mode!! It has been speculated that it would not, but thats not the case. The difference between low and high mode was also not very distinctive at all, and the punch in the picture was really there in low mode.


Well, thanks Havosci. You have answered one of my biggest concerns. I figured as much (why on earth would you NOT be able to use an iris in low-lamp mode?)

This is very good news indeed. The fact that you rate it ABOVE the current "LCD heavyweight champion of the world" (Epson Cinama500), is ALSO quite encouraging...

Did you get any impression of fan noise in high-lamp mode? I suspect I may want to bump it into high gear after the first 1000 hours or so... Would be nice if the noise level were tolerable (unlike the ae500).

Can't wait for Daniel's review. (and possible AVS offering?)

- Frank

Was to much people in the room to get a feel for the fan noise so I cant help you with that.

I must say however that the other day when I saw the epson 500 it was not perfectly set-up. It cannot have been since it was horrible in terms of VB when I saw it.

Reading user reviews almost all of them mention VB and no menu option to tweak it - thats not good sign... :(

I wish I could see the ae700 in person so I can check out the VB issue personally. So far I can't find anyone locally with one on display. I am certainly not going to replace my VB free Sony 10HT with a projector that has a VB problem.:( I am beginning to think that we have driven the prices so low that they cut corners during manufacturung, which may lead to the VB problem. I don't know how else to explain the fact that my sony 10HT doesn't have VB. Hopefully It is truly only slight...

when it is available here, I would love to try this pj out in my HT and compare it directly to the Epson 500. That is one thing I have noticed...you have to directly compare pjs to really see the differences. When I got my Epson I didn't have my z2 hooked up and I watched a bunch fo stuff and knew the image was better but it didn't seem like a huge difference except for low light scenes. Only then when I compared ti directly to my z2 was the magnitude of the improvement seen.

I do not doubt the AE700 will/may produce a better image than the Epson...I just want to see how much better it may possibly be.

Wasn't there a tweak for the AE500 to adjust VB somewhere in the service menu?

Originally posted by Kroot
Reading user reviews almost all of them mention VB and no menu option to tweak it - thats not good sign... :(
I don't think the lack of menu option should be a surprise. The Panasonic representatives at CEDIA told me the stuff related to VB could only be adjusted at the factory. It would of course be nice to find out that was wrong, but I'm not counting on it.
Originally posted by William Mapstone
I wish I could see the ae700 in person so I can check out the VB issue personally.
I think you would have to see the one you were planning on buying. VB isn't like lumens or contrast ratio where there will just be slight variations between projectors of the same model. It can vary widely. In my experience the Sony LCDs have exhibited less of this than other LCDs I've looked at.

--Darin

I don't buy that. I have used the LCD panel adjustment feature on my Epson 500 and it adjusts the visbility of VB.

maybe adding this into a pj costs a little more...or, maybe panny is just too lazy to add it in. Who knows.

Originally posted by Ursa
So MP, are you going thinking about jumping on one of these?

Later,
Bill

Heh, nope. I am tapped out. I keep reminding myself that my Epson is probably just as good ;). Pity I didn't wait a bit though.

Originally posted by rlindo
when it is available here, I would love to try this pj out in my HT and compare it directly to the Epson 500. That is one thing I have noticed...you have to directly compare pjs to really see the differences. When I got my Epson I didn't have my z2 hooked up and I watched a bunch fo stuff and knew the image was better but it didn't seem like a huge difference except for low light scenes. Only then when I compared ti directly to my z2 was the magnitude of the improvement seen.

I do not doubt the AE700 will/may produce a better image than the Epson...I just want to see how much better it may possibly be.

I do... it uses the same panel, and the Epson pretty much squeezes the D4 panels for all they are worth. We might have paid more for the same thing, but I don't think this PJ is going to break the back of the Epson or the Yanmmy 510. What it does do is put that same performance in this price category, which is a good thing.

On another note, I am pleased to see that after the debacle that was the AE500 product launch Panny seems to have gotten their act together here. All the buzz is about this projector. You hear almost nothing on the Z3.

ROB, I agree totally. Why don't all manufacturers put in a service tweak for VB? Cost? How many people wouldn't pay a couple hundred more to be able to fix their panny to nearly VB free with ease? They would not only gain more satisfied customers but save on labor costs having to now fix them under warranty coverage.

Let me guess, VB is not a warranty issue. It's like the dead pixel approach. It's deemed acceptable in most minor instances.

madpoet: The Epson cannot touch the effective on-off CR of the Panasonic.

Jcam: I'd say about 5% of buyers -- max -- would pay a couple hundred more for the tweak you describe.

Epson 500/Yam 510 vs Panny AE700 vs Hitachi PJ TX100 vs Infocus SP 5000 ... and the Sanyo Z3 when it gets here. Someone must do this shootout soon :)

Deleted

Originally posted by darinp2
I don't think the lack of menu option should be a surprise. The Panasonic representatives at CEDIA told me the stuff related to VB could only be adjusted at the factory. It would of course be nice to find out that was wrong, but I'm not counting on it.
--Darin
Hmm, convention reps. I'm not sure, but I think we've seen manufacture reps at conventions say things that were later proved to not be the case. I bet NEC said the same back in the CRT's hay-days, too. Of course, I just think they do not want buyers to go fiddling around inside such small chassis.

Maybe they should just build the dang GUI (menu) to address this and stop being stubborn. It surely would control returns.

Originally posted by TheFerret
Hmm, convention reps. I'm not sure, but I think we've seen manufacture reps at conventions say things that were later proved to not be the case. I bet NEC said the same back in the CRT's hay-days, too. Of course, I just think they do not want buyers to go fiddling around inside such small chassis.
Last year I talked to a couple of Panasonic engineers and got some good info. Engineers tend to be pretty straightforward, even at shows. For this years show, it wouldn't surprise me if one of the two people I talked to was also an engineer. I think they would have preferred to tell me there was a solution in this case based on the conversation, so I doubt they were hiding anything. You are right that we have to consider the source though.

Now as far as not having a menu for this, yes it could be that they don't want buyers fiddling around and the majority of their buyers probably aren't even aware of VB.

--Darin

rogo, you may be right on the 5% but if you ask the owners that do have it on theirs, especially if it's quite prominent it may be more like 100%. I personally have not seen VB yet other than so called screen shots posted occasionally on the forum. Here is a link from another forum showing VB on the AE500. I got to tell you, if mine looked like that first picture I would probably go Tony Soprano on someone!

http://www.romabio.dk/media%5Cdownload%5CAE500_VB_screenshot.zip

Originally posted by Havocsi
The difference between low and high mode was also not very distinctive at all, and the punch in the picture was really there in low mode.


THe tricky part about evaluating image punch on a new projector is underestimating the effect that a new bulb has on an image. The first 100 hours of bulb life yields a very punchy, bright image on any projector. Unfortunately, as the bulb ages, the image dims, so that even in high mode that punch is diminished.

Maybe the vertical bands on my laptop offset VB in those pictures, but honestly could not see much. It was very faint. I imagine it looks worse in person, but if it looks as mild as it did to me in the screenshot, I can live with it. It is definitely not worth another $4000 for a HD2+ DLP if the rest of this projector lives up to its billing. Thank you for the pictures however as I could not quite imagine what VB looked like.

Should this be something that should be fixed? Yes
Would I pay more to have it fixed? Yes
Can I live with it or have the patience to get a projector in which it minimal? I am guessing so.

For me the projector still is a no brainer. Looking forward to having it in hand in a couple weeks.

On the UK site link, I thought it was interesting that the reviewer and his wife saw vb on AE700 and ended up buying the HS20 instead because he thought it looked better.

aug dog,

well, one of the shots doesnt have any real VB that I can see. the other one has insane VB. It's like looking at a striped screen.

rlindo,

I took another look. It is in the AE500_med_VB.JPG file, correct? I see it, but it is very faint on my screen. I will have to take a look on my other (better screen) computer.

What causes this? Seems graduated and regular so possibly diminishing voltage across the panel?

Mark,

"The Epson cannot touch the effective on-off CR of the Panasonic."

Is that based on having seen the Epson as well as the AE700, or on comparing the contrast spec's?

Noah, seeing both.

While I didn't spend a ton of time with the Epson, it was enough to see fairly clearly that it offers traditional "LCD blacks" that are really in the grey family.

The Panasonic is much closer to a DLP black.

Taking into account the pros and cons of DLP vs. LCD, would anyone here like to start hazarding a guess as to whether or not the Panny AE700 720p LCD will become the new bang vs. buck leader in the $2,199 and under price group... or will the wiley little Infocus 4805 480p DLP still rule supreme?

Hmm...

When the Sanyo Z2 clone at the last Denver Mariott projector shootout was directly compared with the 4805 on a 92" HC screen most picked the 4805 for overall best picture quality (cleaner, punchier, greater black levels, and more vivid color). This was feeding both the same SD & HD material from their DVI inputs. I would assume this would still play out on a larger white screen as long as the seating distance of the 4805 remained at 2X the screen width.

Now comes along the AE700 with a brighter image, deeper contrast (for an LCD), and possibly less VBR and SDE... I'm wondering out loud if on a 1.0 or 1.3 gain screen of about 110" the ability to throw a true 720p image might negate some of the benefits of the 4805, even if blacks weren't quite as good.

I'm getting anxious to read some shootouts. :D

Dan

P.S. Do the Panny AE700 and Sanyo Z3 use the newer Epson D5 panels, or are those projectors coming later?

Can someone explain "VB" as it applies to the AE700 - what does it mean?

My goal is to purchase a new projector before the end of the year. I've narrowed my choices down to the Panasonic AE700 and the Sony VPL-HS51. Mainly because of their low cost, rainbow immunity, and new dynamic iris feature to improve dynamic black level.

I am fortunate enough to be one of the few to live close to Daniel Hutnicki and got to see the AE700 in action tonight. Thank you very much to Daniel for your gracious hospitality and kind hearted offer to allow me to visit your home. Daniel has the AE700 on loan from Panasonic here in Los Angeles. We were able to view material in both standard and high definition. He had a D-VHS deck for High Definition and a DVI capable DVD player with a DVI to HDMI cable attached for standard definition. When we watched sources on DVD the DVD player itself up scaled the picture to 720p.

The first source played was the D-VHS version of "Moulin Rouge." The AE700 definitely gave an initial "WOW" factor. The colors were bright & vivid and the resolution of the HD source really showed a lot of detail. After about 10-20 seconds we were able to give our first critical impression, which was that Panasonic’s smoothscreen technology really worked well. I noticed no SDE (screen door effect) even from about a foot away. It really blew away my old Sony VPL-VW10HT in this regard. The picture was very smooth without a hint of a grid pattern even from my relatively short viewing distance of about 9-11 feet. His screen is a 92 inch grayhawk. I never noticed any of the Peek-a-boo scan lines that some people refer to either, but I don't know what to look for to see them.

The fan noise coming from the AE700 was a non issue. I barely heard the unit and noticed no varying oscillation during the 2 hours or so that we watched various material. I would say that when watching a movie with the soundtrack at a normal listening level, there should be no audible distractions from the projector.

I've never seen VB (vertical banding) before. One of the guests said he noticed it a little, but I personally could not see anything that would distract me during a movie watching session. He owns the AE500, so I would consider him the expert. For those of you who are really bothered by VB and were hoping the AE700 would have no VB at all, sorry it does according to him. I did see FPN (fixed pattern noise) too, but it was mild in my opinion. Yes, I saw it, but again it would not bother me enough to be dissatisfied with an AE700 purchase.

We played various DVD material such as "Star Wars","Das Boot","Jaws","Indiana Jones","Jurassic Park III", and a few other clips. One thing that was really re-enforced was the fact that the quality of the source material really does matter. "Star Wars" looked amazing whereas "Das Boot" look flat and washed out.

The lens shift was a cool feature allowing you to move the image around on the wall to align it to your screen with a neat little joystick. The picture remains square without keystone distortion while moving around on the wall. If you can imagine the lens being in the very center of the picture vertically and horzontally, the lens shift allows you to move the picture up or down about 63% of the screen height. The picture can move about 25% left or right. But, as you shift in one particular direction, vertically or horizontally, the opposite shift range is reduced.

We were all anxious to check out the effects of the new Dynamic Iris feature. The AE700 has an iris, that looks like two opening and closing gates (internally in the projector) that limit the lamp light to the LCD panels by opening and closing according to the input signal. Panasonic claims a 2000:1 contrast ratio. My understanding is that there is also a gamma lookup table that allows the projector to dynamically adjust gamma in conjunction with the Dynamic Iris in real time. We were able to pause a scene from "U-571" that was mostly dark and turn the Dynamic Iris feature on and off and noticed a slight change in picture black level. I have no way of knowing if it was the Dynamic Iris or gamma or both that was changing, but there was a difference. In actual movie watching the iris feature is designed to work scene by scene, so pausing the image and toggling the iris control may not have been extremely useful. While watching movies I was not able to detect any ramping of black level or any other indication that the iris was in operation. So, yes the dynamic iris works to make the dynamic contrast better and the black levels seem better, but my personal opinion was that it helped bring the black down by only about 10-20%. This is a very personal and subjectively generated number. I can say that the blacks were much better than my old Sony 10HT, but the iris did not make the traditional LCD blacks (grays) drastically better as I had hoped. I'm very anxious to see the new Sony VPL-HS51 as Sony is claiming a 6000:1 contrast as compared to Panasonics AE700 2000:1.

It's my personal opinion that if the Sony proves to have a much better black level, even if on a scene to scene basis, I'll most likely prefer it over the AE700. The Sony does not have smoothscreen technology and other have reported the SDE to be noticeable on the Sony, but, I'll choose to take much better blacks over smoothscreen. Just a personal preference as I was never really bothered by SDE on my Sony 10HT. I just used a very slight defocus and the SDE was a non-issue. I imagine a very slight defocus of the HS51 would give similar results.
Of course another very important fact is that the AE700 seems to be about 2/3rds the street price of the Sony so that will factor into my desicion too.

We wanted to test the component input of the AE700 from the DVD player, but unfortunately could not seem to get it to work. It must have been one of those darn home theatre gremlins at work again.

My walk away conclusions are that the AE700 is an incredible value for the pre-order street prices I've seen. It costs less than half of what I paid for my Sony 10HT 4 years ago and the picture and features are much better. The picture is smooth with no SDE. The fan noise is barely audible and had no noticeable oscillations. The colors are vivid and precise looking as long as the source is of high quality. The lens shift is very useful for various installations. The dynamic iris works and gives black level improvement, but does not give a drastic improvement. Overall a top achiever in its class. But, I’ll hold off my decision until I can see the HS51 in person.

Thanks EHUFF, very interesting. I have an H30 myself but am looking for a replacement as I am sensitive to RBE. Like you I am very fond of deep blacks and that's why I love my H30: in combination with a grey screen black is almost equal to the absence of light. That means if there is a little ambient light (enough to see each other) I cannot see any light on the screen where the image is black. LCD projectors I have seen cannot even come close to this. What kind of black or we talking about with the 700?

Wow, nice review!! Thank you very much EHUFF! You hit on almost all the questions of mine that were still unanswered. (VB, fan noise, etc.)

One question that is left: did you ever try the projector with an interlaced signal? (My cheapo DVD player has progressive scan, but I'm sure it's inferior to the de-interlacing chip on most projectors. I was just wondering how good the de-interlacer is on the 700).

Thanks!

Hmm - how come Sanyo, Hitachi and Epson have VB adjustment menu (that works), but Panasonic tells that it can correct VB only at factory?

Edit: spelling :)