Haha, this is pretty entertaining for a stupid distraction while we wait.
Anyway, "Sarah" from ProjectorPeople left a voicemail today stating "We have a shipment of 150 coming Monday, and another 100 will follow right after that". "Tracking" is a little subjective I guess, and maybe everyone gets them on the 25th for shipping on the 26th? Who knows. I'm very tempted to go the Japan import route because its way cheaper, but I don't have a translation of the SERVICE menus. I wonder if there is any Japanese on the remote?


Originally posted by AustinTexas
There seems to be a lot of contradictory information regarding mysterious shipments from "a dealer" in Florida.

I just checked with the regional sales manager at Panasonic who is helping coordinate the PowerBuy and he knows for a fact exactly how many AE700's have been shipped to the US so far and how many are coming in on October 26th and who they are currently allocated for.

The reason there are some early units being sold is that AVI (aka Projector People) in Florida was able to get most of the early release AE700's because they agreed to take a bunch of AE500's off Panasonic's inventory.

As for the remark from EricBres: This is incorrect, or at least very misleading. There are 1200 units being shipped TO (not in) the US and are scheduled to arrive at Panasonic's distribution center in the Northwest on October 26th. From there they will be shipped off to the dealers as allocated by the regional sales managers. AVI (Projector People) has 150 AE700's allocated to them (but has far more than that on order so even some of their customers will be facing a long wait). I know these facts as they effect the PowerBuy that our Austin HT group put together. In other words, because we agreed to purchase these in quantity he gave our group first dibs at his allocation of 170 projectors. This was a critical part of our agreement because none of us wanted to be in line waiting for back orders to get filled in order to get our projectors. Now anything that isn't sold in a PowerBuy would go to other individual dealers or sent to other regions which may give the large retailers who have over extended themselves with accepting orders beyond their allocations a chance to satisfy at least some of the customers.

I suspect we should heed the advice of Eric when reading his remarks? Considering you said "We" it is safe to assume you work for Projector People, and while it may be technically true that you have gone through two shipments (after all, you can ship one projector one week and another the next and technically speaking you just went through two shipments), but the fact still remains that everyone, including Projector People are waiting on the Oct. 26th shipment and will only get allocated 150 of the 1200 units and yet they have taken orders for more than the 150 that they have allocated for on top of the early release units that they have already sold. It is not true that you are tracking 150 AE700's being shipped in the US - they have not arrived yet. I know this because I and many others in the PowerBuy are pacing back and forth waiting for the very same shipment and the same allocation.

I wouldn't have called you out Eric, but it seemed very unreasonable to me to see you commenting about "believing 80% of what you SEE and 20% of what you HEAR." when you yourself are posting inaccurate/misleading remarks. I actually agree with your statement, but let's not prove it to be true by offering an example of why we should only believe 80% of what we see and 20% of what we hear.

Let's keep it straight and clear so no one is left scratching their heads wondering what the facts are.

From Panasonic's product page(http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=72987&catGroupId=21360&modelNo=PT-AE700U&surfModel=PT-AE700U ):

• 10-bit full digital processing and 10-bit gamma correction

This whole AE700 situation reminds me of the days when I used to work in consumer electronics. A common tactic with camcorders (particularly Sony) was for the manufacturer to intentionally limit availability early on. They would whip up a frenzy in the media about a new model, and then put out JUST enough of them to REALLY get things stirred up. All of the vendors would get deluged with orders -- most of which were from eager consumers who were pre-ordering with multiple companies. All the vendors would think to themselves, "Dang! I could sell 500 of these tomorrow if I could just get 'em in!"

Then the manufacturer would go around, get huge orders from all the vendors, and do an enormous production run. When the vendors actually recieved the units, they would find that half of their backorders were cancelled, because the customers had already purchased from other vendors. The demand only SEEMED huge, because of the limited availability. The vendors would then be hung with a year's worth of inventory, and the manufacturer would make a mint.

I'm not saying Panasonic plays this game, but the fact that it has been done in the CE world before does give one pause . . .

For my part, as a guy who doesn't know or owe ANYONE on this forum, I'd like to say that in my time researching here I've found Ericbres to be very knowledgeable and FREQUENTLY is the first person to update us with new information.

Any time I see people on these forums uselessly making personal attacks, I figure that in life they are annoying squeaky little 98 pounders who think this is their chance to lash out.

AustinTexas,

Just wondering, how many people are in your PowerBuy ?

Any time I see people on these forums uselessly making false or misleading statements and then claim they are being personally attacked when others point out contradictory facts, I personally DO NOT "figure that in life they are annoying squeaky little 98 pounders who think this is their chance to lash out." - but rather I don't pay them any more attention.

After all, it is pretty clear who is making personal attacks and who is clearing up the facts that were for a time causing confusion regarding availability of the AE700.

Besides, isn't labeling certain people you have never met as "squeaky little 98 pounders who think this is their chance to lash out" a personal attack, and thus following your logic to do so would mean you yourself are such a person? After all, how much use was it for you to post in an AE700 thread in response to a personal attack that didn't exist and then label others as "squeaky little 98 pounders who think this is their chance to lash out".

BTW: I see Eric has updated his post with the colorful remark "Doofus". I think your point is well made.

Now back on topic. John, I'll try and get working on the review regarding the AE700 & BenQ 8700+ - I got a little distracted. ;)

Originally posted by AustinTexas


Now back on topic. John, I'll try and get working on the review regarding the AE700 & BenQ 8700+ - I got a little distracted. ;)

Great thanks!

Along with the general impressions if you could include any possible brightness/ambeint light performance and screen door impressions if possible id apprciate it. Thanks again.

John

AustinTexas

Are you allowed to post details about the PowerBuy? Is it open to AVSers?

reap

Given the number of people in this forum alone who have admitted that they placed multiple preorders at different places, I suspect that the 1200 that are allegedly being shipped will meet the 1500ish orders that are out there...and I agree with 'thatdreamer' that the reseller may be left with a little more inventory than they planned on, but that should not be a huge issue given the likely popularity of this projector.

Keep this thread civil. Austin, you can doubt Eric's word all you want but he has provided EXTREMELY accurate information far more often than not here. I have no idea who he does or doesn't work for (other than to know it's a dealer) but he's always been very upfront about it. You are relying solely on the word of YOUR dealer, which seems a bit contradictory when you don't believe Eric.

Enough of this argument.

-MP

Madpoet rules! (literally)
So basically at this time those of us not on a waiting list are looking at maybe 4-8 weeks before we can probably get one delivered. Well, on the bright side that leaves us plenty of time for debating the AE700, Z3, TX100, etc.
hmmmmm..... vb or visible pixels.
Hopefully some of the lucky early order people can get to some reviews that don't have to be googled and deciphered.

Austin, Eric is correct. Some of what you said should have been said in private. And then your insinuation someone works for so & so without even confirming it is worse. Even if he did/does work for a reseller, your lack of professionalism in addressing him in public shows much worse.

DId anyone ever confirm if the ae700 has 1:1 pixel mapping when you feed it a 1280x720? Im planning on using a scaler with this unit and wouldnt want the image altered by the internal scaler of the projector.

John

... I only pre-ordered with one company (yes, the one with the "new lower price"). <sigh>

I'm taking a Zen-like approach to this ... I'll get it when I get it ... :)

John, I believe that it was confirmed that a digital 720P signal does get 1:1 mapping, but that (possibly some) units have pixels that are cropped off. I don't know why some people seem to think that means that 1:1 has been defeated, but there was some confusion... seems like maybe 40 pixel overscan for some people...

mrad - good approach. Fewer ulcers that way!

Then again, I'm not buying till next spring, so I'll let all of you duke it out and report the details!

I don't know about 4-8 weeks. The way I see it, this is still a niche product (for at least one more year anyway) and very few people have heard about it. My boss just called Apex TODAY and they told him if he preordered they should be able to ship it along with everyone else, by next Friday! We'll see how accurate that is. I think its possible that after this first batch of 1500 go out though, demand will pick up substantially as we approach Christmas, and there might be waiting lists again starting in December.



Originally posted by tsteves
Madpoet rules! (literally)
So basically at this time those of us not on a waiting list are looking at maybe 4-8 weeks before we can probably get one delivered. Well, on the bright side that leaves us plenty of time for debating the AE700, Z3, TX100, etc.
hmmmmm..... vb or visible pixels.
Hopefully some of the lucky early order people can get to some reviews that don't have to be googled and deciphered.

So then............. I should order now! I can get one?
If I can get a firm date I will. I realize the LA ports are a mess, but hey, if there is one available on a ship near here, I would order. If it's still overseas, not. Somebody pm if you want.

All,
I have been following this thread with a great deal of interest the past couple weeks. What I haven't seen addressed yet (showing my ignorance too) is how to take a good digital picture of the projected image so we can all benefit from some visuals. I hope to be one of the lucky ones with the 700 at the end of next week, and any advice on digital picture settings would be greatly appreciated. I have an Olympus 4000 zoom (4M pixel model).

I pre-ordered this morning, and was told by the end of next week I would receive one as well... it was implied that they hadn't exceeded what was pre-ordered and how many they would get in.

I spent another few hours tonight with an AE700 in my theater and compared it to my Barco Graphics 801. The screen is a 45x80 DIY blackout cloth painted with Behr Ultrawhite. Total like control in the room with flat gray walls and the front wall is entirely made of a black velvet curtain. Source was an HTPC using WinDVD 4. Each projector was Avia'd before I watched any movies. I was primarily interested in comparing colors, sharpness, and shadow detail. The CRT was being driven at 960x540@72Hz and the AE700 at 1280x720@60Hz. I was able to easily achieve 1:1 mapping on the VGA port with Powerstrip.

General comments
Being that the 801 is an ES focus machine, it was a much softer image when looking at the Windows desktop vs the AE700. The AE700 is, of course, MUCH brighter too. Interestingly enough, in my smaller (11x17 loft) the AE700's fan seemed louder than it did in the other larger theaters I have viewed the AE700 in. Of course it was also directly by my head at ear level. It's still quieter than the Barco, which is considered a fairly quiet CRT. I also that that the image produced on either projector with the HTPC looked better than the Zenith 318 in any component mode on either the HCCV or SilverStar screens. In my setup I was also able to see peakaboo scanlines on vertical pans with bright areas. This was at a 1.5x seating distance. In my earlier review I noted that on an HCCV screen with the Zenith player I couldn't see any peakaboo lines at 1.3x. This is consistent with my experiences when comparing other projectors on the HTPC vs a standalone DVD plater. The HTPC just seems to show more of the projectors' flaws. I didn't find the peakaboo line a problem though; they are much improved over the 300 and 500.

Onto to the movie clips...

Serendipity: My wife and I have a soft spot for this movie for sentimental reasons, so I've seen in numerous times on multiple displays. We compared the color reproduction and shadow detail throughout chapter 1. The AE700 was brighter and showed a little bit of yellow around Kate Beckinsale's eyes that the 801 didn't. I also noted that I could see the film scratches in the transfer easier on the AE700. When it came to detail in the film itself, I didn't see any difference between the two, even though the 801 was running at a lower resolution and can't focus as sharp as the AE700. The limitations of the DVD's 720x480 native resolution were definitely apparent on either machine. Perhaps with ffdshow I could take avantage of the AE700's higher resolution to create a more detailed image.

Fight Club: About two and half minutes in, there is a scene of Ed Norton laying in bed unable to sleep. I like to use this scene to test for shadow detail by looking in the lower left corner of the screen at the sheet folds and the magazines on the night stand. Though the AE700 was brighter overall, the 801 was able to show all the detail that the AE700 could.

LOTR:FOTR: The Mines of Moria, of course. There is a nice shadow detail test when the walk way collapses, trapping Frodo and Aragorn on an unsteady piece of wakway. As the walkway collapses the camera cuts to an overhead shot. Again in the lower left part of the screen you can see details of cave wall in the shadows Again, I was able to see the same level of detail on each projector. I even cranked up the brightness controls with the image paused to see if there was any detail on the dvd that either projector might not be displaying. In both cases I was getting everything I could get.

Dark City: CRT people use this movie as a "digital killer", claiming that it is practically unwatchable on DLP and LCD projectors because of their poor black levels. I've never found it to be a problem on better DLPs, but have agreed that most LCDs don't do the film justice. I found the blacks to be acceptable on AE700, but the CRT really shined here by, well, not shining. Shadow detail was again equal, but the CRT just made the movie seem more life like because of the truer black making the nightime scenes more engrossing. Again, I cranked the brightness in WinDVD and on the projectors to see if I was missing detail, but I didn't see anything that I was missing.

Overall I was a little dismayed. I really expected the AE700 to be superior in the shadow detail department compared to my entry-level CRT. Given that it wasn't, and the fact that the black levels on the CRT kicked the crap out of the AE700 have made me rethink my decision to order an AE700. I'm not sure the small size, extra brightness, and desktop sharpness are worth $2000.

" I really expected the AE700 to be superior in the shadow detail department compared to my entry-level CRT."

I'm surprised you expected that. I never would've.

Originally posted by RDaneel
John, I believe that it was confirmed that a digital 720P signal does get 1:1 mapping, but that (possibly some) units have pixels that are cropped off. I don't know why some people seem to think that means that 1:1 has been defeated, but there was some confusion... seems like maybe 40 pixel overscan for some people...

mrad - good approach. Fewer ulcers that way!

Then again, I'm not buying till next spring, so I'll let all of you duke it out and report the details!

I don't understand how something with 720 (vertical) pixels of physical resolution can display an image of 720 (vertical) pixels of resolution and have any amount of overscan all while maintaining 1:1 mapping. Do I not understand what overscan is? Something is not adding up for me.

I also don't understand, because if the 700 has panels that are native 1280x720 and it can do 1:1 pixel mapping, AND we get overscan then does that not mean the actual displayed image is LESS than 1280x720?

From what i've read hear it could be 1240x680 resolution.

Now, I know this may sound picky, but if I pay for a display of 921,600 pixels I expect to get all of them on my screen.

So, with a htpc, would I be better of using the vga port instead of hdmi?

Originally posted by Smegger
I also don't understand, because if the 700 has panels that are native 1280x720 and it can do 1:1 pixel mapping, AND we get overscan then does that not mean the actual displayed image is LESS than 1280x720?

From what i've read hear it could be 1240x680 resolution.

Now, I know this may sound picky, but if I pay for a display of 921,600 pixels I expect to get all of them on my screen.

So, with a htpc, would I be better of using the vga port instead of hdmi?

You are confused. The pixels are all there but when there is overscan (just about everything has overscan tv producers even take that into account) The image is enlarged past the size of panel. This is why the pixels aren't mapped 1 :1

Thanks for taking the time to post your review Jonathan DA. Gives us some new information to think about.

I would not be dismayed that the AE700 does not blow the CRT out of the water on standard-def DVD material. The fact that it is very close shows just how far the LCD technology has come. For me, getting that kind of performance in a convenient, flexible, affordable package is a technological and economic miracle.

The thing that makes the AE700 an even more worthwhile investment for me, however, it the fact that it is also an HD monitor. I am looking forward down the road to HD movies from digital cable and blu-ray DVD or HD-DVD. It would be interesting to compare the AE700 on HD material at 1280x720 vs. the CRT downconverted from hi-def to its best available resolution.

I think a better test would be a calibrated AE700 (with color filter to get the 2050:1 contrast) against the 801 CRT. This will compare the "best" of the AE700 against the "so called reference" blacks of traditional CRT.

With that said, anyone with a "calibrated 2050:1" AE700 yet (aside from cine4home)? This would be the ultimate test for the AE700.





[Overall I was a little dismayed. I really expected the AE700 to be superior in the shadow detail department compared to my entry-level CRT. Given that it wasn't, and the fact that the black levels on the CRT kicked the crap out of the AE700 have made me rethink my decision to order an AE700. I'm not sure the small size, extra brightness, and desktop sharpness are worth $2000. [/B]

Question about the operation of the horizontal and vertical lens shift: is the projector situation perpendicular to the screen and then the image moves left/right and up/down? Or do you still have to "point" the projector at the screen and then use lens shift to correct the image?

You still need it perpendicular or the image is skewed.

Blank, I write dall italia..A days in week me arrives panny the 700, I would want to connect panny the 700 through a ati 9600xt exited dvi_hdmi panny 700.Ho sended an email to a situated German in order makes me to say if their cable is adapted for my system; this and what the situated German who trades, sells the cable dvi_hdmi has answered me: Hello,

this connection will not work, because the ATI is not able to send a
signal with copy protection, which the Panasonic expects at the input
for digital signals.
The cable in issue that I must order is this: ww.dcscable.de/product_info.php?cPath=152_243&products_id=548 Cio that I have received is true? I must modernize the driver of the graphical card ati? Which it is the solution? Excused use google for the translation. Thx

Originally posted by setina


this connection will not work, because the ATI is not able to send a
signal with copy protection, which the Panasonic expects at the input
for digital signals.
The cable in issue that I must order is this: ww.dcscable.de/product_info.php?cPath=152_243&products_id=548 Cio that I have received is true? I must modernize the driver of the graphical card ati? Which it is the solution? Excused use google for the translation. Thx

I don't believe this is true. HDCP is applied by the output device. An input device (AE700) doesn't care if a HDMI/DVI signal has HDCP encryption or not- the input device simply respects HDCP if present.

Many people on this board have been feeding their AE700 DVI from a Radeon, including the cine4home.com guys.

This issue is analogous to the Macrovision applied to analog outputs on VCRs and DVD players. Your input device (TV) accepts and diplays Macrovision encoded signals, but can display input signals *without* Macrovision applied (of course!).

Thanks, much grato.This forum is fantastic.

I also don't understand, because if the 700 has panels that are native 1280x720 and it can do 1:1 pixel mapping, AND we get overscan then does that not mean the actual displayed image is LESS than 1280x720?
You are confused. The pixels are all there but when there is overscan (just about everything has overscan tv producers even take that into account) The image is enlarged past the size of panel. This is why the pixels aren't mapped 1 :1

You are confused (with respect to the AE700 1:1 mapping issue.) In the other thread, Li On emphatically stated that the AE700 achieves a 1:1 mapping for 1280x720 AND it does not show all the pixels vertically. So, it's sort of like there is a mask chopping off some pixels. So, the AE700 does not have 1280x720 resolution, but rather 1280x~708 resolution (at least for digital 1280x720 input... maybe full 1280x720 for other input.) Ah, here is the quote from Li On:
It is NOT overscan NOR scaling! Just a few pixels cropping at top/bottom. Meaning there are a few unused pixels at top/bottom. And all those 98.4% visible vertical pixels are all in the perfect 1:1 mapping!

Let me open by thanking all contributors for creating such a wonderful resource. I have searched much of this group, yet still have a few questions. We had ordered a sony GW 50" LCD with matching stand but they could not deliver til end Nov. I took my wife to see a fp at a local dealer. she was open to the idea. she said as she controlled the rest of the house, the basement was mine. this after asking her if i could paint the walls black. she said sure.

i am pretty much set on the ae700 after reading your comments. now, i need help/advice on how best to set up the room. much is written on how to compensate for ambient light. is the "best" enviroment one with total light control?

we do not have cable or satellite this would be strictly for movies for the next couple of years.

my goal is to move towards fp, nice screen, and htpc.

our room is 13' x 25' x 6'9". it is wainscotted with panelling on bottom half and what looks like cream coloured acoustic tile/drywall above. The ceiling is acoustic tile. there is only one small window that would be covered by over. we are in the textile business so my thought was to get some black velour and staple it onto the walls and ceiling thus giving us a "light-controlled" enviroment. it would seem that we could go with a 100" - 120" in this space.

given this scenario, would we be better off to go with a "grey" screen (my understanding is that greyhawk is good for lcd, firehawk for dlp) or with a "white" screen - studiotek 130?

another consideration is that my wife likes to watch tv while she does the ironing. to do this, she needs some light to see what she is doing. if a "white" screen would work for us, will it get washed out/comprised with any ambient light?

thanks for listening.

Originally posted by jasallen
I mentioned that the zoom played a role. My observation was that the lens shift, at least vertical lens shift, didn't cause a problem until you were at about 75% usage. Additionally, if I moved the zoom out to less that about 75% of that, then the degradations from the lens shift lessened to pretty much non-existent. Furthermore, that is all with DVI to HDMI connection. When using any of the analog connections the effect is even less pronounced. I am not an expert nor do I have a "calibrated eye", but I did use Avia and a computer desktop image, both of which are very unforgiving, so I feel pretty confident about my observations.

Jasallen,
Just to confirm I understand correctly, as you decrease zoom (for the smallest image at a particular distance) you are saying that any bad effects from lens shift become less noticable? So one using less than 25% of the zoom should be able to use 75% of the shift with no problems?

Originally posted by beocop
I think a better test would be a calibrated AE700 (with color filter to get the 2050:1 contrast) against the 801 CRT. This will compare the "best" of the AE700 against the "so called reference" blacks of traditional CRT.

I would also be interested in the result of this comparison, but I won't think it would apply to me unless I can get cine4home to calibrate for me (and I don't think I can). So for me, I find Jonathan DA's avia'd test more helpful since that would be closer to what I can get my hands on.


With that said, anyone with a "calibrated 2050:1" AE700 yet (aside from cine4home)? This would be the ultimate test for the AE700.

Or, maybe cine4home can find an 801 CRT (or similar) to pit his calibrated 700 against. Like I said, it may not apply to me, but I'd still be interested in the results.

Originally posted by Abdul Jalib
In the other thread, Li On emphatically stated that the AE700 achieves a 1:1 mapping for 1280x720 AND it does not show all the pixels vertically. So, it's sort of like there is a mask chopping off some pixels. So, the AE700 does not have 1280x720 resolution, but rather 1280x~708 resolution (at least for digital 1280x720 input... maybe full 1280x720 for other input.) Forgive the newbie question here, but is the "720" part a limitation of the digital input? I guess I just want to be told straight up that the test actually did feed 1280x720 then resulted in cropping, as opposed to being fed 1280x768 by the PC then resulting in a cropped image of 1280x720 on the AE700. I don't have the 9600XT that was used in Li On's test, but the other drivers I've seen output 1280x768 and not 1280x720.

PLEASE PLEASE HELP ASAP!!!!

I am finishing my basement and I ready to put the last piece of drywall up and I need to run a cable for my new AE700 that connects it to the receiver, which is a Onkyo 760, what cable should I use, I am thinking component? I am in a crisis here please help :)

Thanks
Bill

Or, maybe cine4home can find an 801 CRT (or similar) to pit his calibrated 700 against. Like I said, it may not apply to me, but I'd still be interested in the results.

After watching the AE700 further I can add that even without the filters the colors on the AE700 are just slightly more vibrant and vivid than the 801. I think this is, in part at least, due to the better ANSI contrast of digtals vs. CRTs. With the filters the colors would probably look even better. The filters would have to cause a huge improvement in blacks, however, for the AE700 to get near the levels of the 801.

Murphy's Law states you must put that last piece of drywall in before we can help you. :)

Just wanna add something on the 700. I was just playing some XBox in a room with a window, the blinds were down and there is a clear white curtain covering the window, but it was by no means dark. The projector looked great in Dynamic and Video modes. Though dynamic definately shows pixel structure (it is brighter). For video games and TV video mode is perfect with amibient light.

so can someone tell me what to use as cable for my AE700, so I can go downstairs and tear out the drywall I just installed!! (this is from my earlier post about 4 posts back...)

I would use an HDMI cable (since it can have a longer run than a DVI cable and has a slimmer connector).

The only thing is that you would need HDMI/HDCP switching of some sort (there are switch boxes available) and all your sources to have either DVI with an HDMI adaptor or HDMI digital outputs. To be on the safe side, you probably would want to run good component video cables as well (although, if the copy protection flags are put in place, any analog video output would be down-rezed except for the digital encrypted connections).

I'm sure there could be some fix for the pixel cropping phenomenon while using the digital input at some later point.

bnt5, without know the make/model of your sources, the video path between them and the display, its somewhat difficult to suggest Component over, say, RGB or DVI. Many typically install a PVC pipe to fish wiring through later when finishing a space.

Now, since the drywall is already installed can you give us some additional information? If this just a DVD player you are connecting, or are there other sources? Also, are you trying to feed all of your video sources through your Onkyo receiver?

I do not think that Onkyo 760 has anything better than Component. What is the DVD player and HD STB?

I am trying to be as easy as possible, I am feeding everything (DVD, XBOX, Satellite) through the Onkyo. Here are the connections avail. on the Onkyo 760:

HT-R510 [Receiver]
100 Watts minimum of continuous RMS power to each of the six channels into 8 ohms from 20 Hz to 20 kHz with no more than 0.08 % THD, FTC
DTS, DTS-ES Discrete/Matrix 6.1, DTS Neo:6, Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital EX, Dolby Pro Logic II decoding
State-of-the-art linear PCM 96 kHz/24-bit DACs for all channels
Wide Range Amplifier Technology (WRAT)
Extended Frequency Response (10 Hz to 100 kHz)
Absolute Ground Plate
Optimum Gain Volume Control circuitry
A-Form Listening Mode Memory
CinemaFILTER
Crossover Adjustment (60/80/100/120/150 Hz) for bass management
5.1 Multi-channel color-coded inputs for DVD-Audio and Super Audio CD
3 Digital inputs (2 optical, 1 coaxial)
4 S-Video inputs and 2 output
2 Component video inputs and 1 output
Front panel A/V, S-Video inputs
A/B Speaker Drive
6 Sets of heavy-duty multiway speaker binding posts (dual banana-plug compatible) (except SP-B)
Preprogrammed RI Remote

Easy as possible would be something like this component + digital audio switcher: http://www.audioauthority.com/aacconsumers/1154c.html

My friend at work has one and and he loves it - works great. It automatically detects the signal from the active device and switches the output. Could not be easier. All component + digital sources go in. One component out to the PJ and one digital out to the receiver.

Anyone have a .pdf file of the Owners Manual for the AE700U? I would love to read it as I'm building my 13x19 HT room now. The front 10 feet of my room will be roughly 7'5". It will then drop down to roughly 6'9" to get under a beam and some duct work. I will have the remaining 9feet in the back to be the 6'9" height. I am installing two rows. I will have a 96" screen.

The first row will be roughly 12' from the screen. I will have roughly a 9" riser behind the first row (about 2 feet back, 14' from the screen).

From what I am reading, I can build a cabinet in the back of the room (19') and sit my Projector there for a 96" or a 100" screen.

Here is my question:

Because the height in the back of the room is lower than the front by about 8 inches or so, How far BELOW the top of my screen should the Lens of the projector be. I understand it has lens shift, but I've also read excessive shift leads to a poorer picture. I want to be sure that I place my screen LOW enough so that the low height in the back won't block the lens. Any help would be appreciated.

If you need to wire before drywalling, and it's going to be difficult later, I would run everything now even if you won't need it now. Definitely component & VGA at least, but as others said, HDMI also a good idea.

p.s. Link to manual was posted several times in this thread. Do a search.

In order to couple 1280 for 720 as far as the maximum puo to be along the cable dvi_hdmi?Il cable dvi-hdmi through ati 9600xt to panny the 700. Thanks

Before I put up drywall in my theater room, I ran all the cables I could (S-video, 4 runs of RG6 (made into component), and then I installed central Vac conduit so that I could easily run future wires. I even left a fish wire in the conduit so I could easily fish future wires through.

Anyone have a .pdf file of the Owners Manual for the AE700U?

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=72987&catGroupId=21360&modelNo=PT-AE700U&surfModel=PT-AE700U

ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasonic/Drivers/PBTS/manuals/OM_PT-AE700U.pdf

Originally posted by rogo
" I really expected the AE700 to be superior in the shadow detail department compared to my entry-level CRT."

I'm surprised you expected that. I never would've.

Would you expect an HD2+ DLP to have equal or superior shadow detail to a CRT?

How would the ae700 compare to an HD2+ unit in this regard?

John

Some Screenshot.

http://personales.ya.com/Gn0m4/Mundodvd/Pana700/a24.jpg

http://personales.ya.com/Gn0m4/Mundodvd/Pana700/En%20la%20oscuridad%201.jpg



QuinT.

The boys from Sweden are not giving the 700 rave reviews when compared to the Sony HS51...

here is the post...Link (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=461423)

Wouldn't it be nice if people had some sort of method to reference their monitors to before looking at a screen shot, AND that th person capturing the screen shoots post-processed on his/her referenced monitor exactly what was seen on the screen? Hah!

Edit: Of course, someone using the computer with their projector in which they are doing the post processing of captures on would be easiest and best, no?

Forgive the newbie question here, but is the "720" part a limitation of the digital input? I guess I just want to be told straight up that the test actually did feed 1280x720 then resulted in cropping, as opposed to being fed 1280x768 by the PC then resulting in a cropped image of 1280x720 on the AE700. I don't have the 9600XT that was used in Li On's test, but the other drivers I've seen output 1280x768 and not 1280x720.
Yeah, yeah, Li On said he was using 1280x720 on the PC via Powerstrip, which is a program that often lets you get around the resolution/timing limitations of video cards under Windows.

After reading the WSR review, recent personal reviews, and shootouts such as the one in Sweeden, I think I'm going to hold off on the 700 until I can compare with the HS-51. Sounds like the Sony has 0 SD and excellent contrast. You never know about mag reviews and "shootouts" though.

Oh crap that's just great...one more shadow of doubt about my AE700 preorder....maybe the sony HS51 is really better, anyone have any thoughts about jumping off the Panasonic ship? (lookin for a little reassurance here)

first the review starts off by saying the ae700 wasnt properly calibrated. Second i guess it would depend on your enviroment. If you plan on having regular carpet and lightly colored walls your going to enjoy the lumens over the contrast. if you got a properly set up room then by all means enjoy the extra contrast for the hs51. I would be willing to bet that alot of people that buy the lower end projectors dont have dedicated theater rooms if thats the case i wouldnt second guess the ae700 over the hs51.

in short

HS51 much better contrast
AE700 Brighter and less screendoor

HS51 better for completly controlled enviroments where you can actually achieve the contrast otherise your completly wasting money on contrast youll never see.


edit- well now im not too sure about brightness. i remember hs51 being qouted as 800 but i just looked and now its says 1200. dont want to be qouting anything wrong.

The Swede didn't say the HS51 had 0 SDE; he said the HS50 (HS51) had less SDE than any LCD projector EXCEPT the AE700. Others have said the HS51 has a totally unacceptable amount of SDE. In any case, the HS51 costs a lot more, so it had better be able to walk on water or achieve 6000:1 contrast ratio or something (uh, oh yeah :-) )

The SD of the HS-51 is a turnoff. I guess it would have to be seen before judging it though. I currently have a Panny 300. I have to do a little too much defocusing to rid the peekaboo scanlines.

i think the shootout said the hs51 didnt have any peekaboo scanlines.

anyways i still think it comes down to wether you have a dedicated theater or not because if you dont you probably wont notice the extra contrast but you will notice the diference in sde, and price

be happy if you pre-ordered :) Soon, you'll be in widescreen heaven, hehe

*please don't discuss pricing... even in "differences"*
I have a good reason for this so PM me if you don't know why.
Kyser

I received my 700 yesterday, and thought I'd take a minute and post some quick first impressions.

I'm running it with a DVI->HDMI cable (from Blue Jeans), connected to a Denon DVD-1910. I also have a set of component cables running to the projector from my Comcast HD cable box (Motorola).

My only frame of comparison is a projector I used-to own, a Panasonic 701U. The 701U is now a 3 yr old model and was sold with my prior home.

I've spent practically NO time configuring the 700, and am running it in Dynamic mode (I have a very challenged and almost ridiculous viewing environment, as you can see from the picture). My current screen is VERY small, 53" diagonal. It's Da-Lite HCCV material mounted to 3/4" MDF and hung on the wall. I'm hoping this will suffice for viewing during the day, as the picture is plasma-bright at this size. (In a month or ago, I'll add a 96 or 106" manual pull-down between the windows and window treatments.) The small screen may remain for casual/daytime viewing, while the large screen will be used for extended viewing of 'spectacles' (sports, movies, etc).

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php?photo=10536&sort=1&cat=508&page=1

Anyway, my first impressions of the 700:

Overall, the picture is quite beautiful and detailed. Colors are vibrant. At this size, of course, no screen door is visable at all. Watching HD material, one has to wonder if it gets any better than this.

As has been mentioned before, one of the benefits of this projector (esp over the Z3 and Sony HS units) is the variable lens. I have the projector 10.5' from the screen and no enlargement of the image at all. Once I get a 106" pull down screen, I'll simply turn the zoom dial and pull down the screen. This flexibility on the 700 is wonderful and exactly what I was looking for: to produce a rich, very bright SMALL image for daytime viewing, and easily project a large image for extended viewing, with only a full turn of the zoom ring. Even my wife will be able to figure that one out.

My room is not pitch-dark, as you can see from the windows in the picture (and there are three more on the left size you cannot see). But even with two track lights on, and a table lamp, an image this size is quite stunning with the 700.

On the downside, perhaps because my screen isn't the greatest, but the bars on the top and bottom of the picture are still certainly not black. Maybe this isn't a good way to judge black level, but it's what I notice right away. Actually, blacks within movie images look blacker than the black bars, but I think that's just an illusion. I experienced this with my 701U, as many people do, I just had hoped with 3 yrs of improvements, it might not be so noticeable.

Colors are vivid. Blues are a little too blue, as with the 701U, but I suspect I'll be able to adjust this a little.

The image is not particularly 3-dimensional. I didn't really expect it to be, but it would have been a nice plus, considering this is 3 yrs newer than the 701U I'm used-to. But I've also seen the Sony HS20 and a popular DLP model at this price point, and wouldn't say those are noticeably better in this category.

Verticle Banding: I haven't seen any yet. However, again, I have a 53" image and have only watched about an hour or two of material so far.

For those questioning their pre-orders, if you have another $1,300 for an HS51, I could MAYBE understand if you'd want to wait to compare. But this is one heck of an image for $2100.

NOW, I HAVE A COUPLE VERY BASIC QUESTIONS FOR THOSE WHO ARE A LITTLE MORE VERSED IN TWEAKING:

1. Do I set my DVI output on the Denon 1910 to 720p or 1080?
2. What about my Motorola HD cable box? 720p or 1080?

DO NOT DISCUSS PRICING ON THIS FORUM!

Originally posted by NavinJohnson


NOW, I HAVE A COUPLE VERY BASIC QUESTIONS FOR THOSE WHO ARE A LITTLE MORE VERSED IN TWEAKING:

1. Do I set my DVI output on the Denon 1910 to 720p or 1080?
2. What about my Motorola HD cable box? 720p or 1080?

Given that this is a native 720P display I would think you should set both the Denon and Moto box to 720P.

Would a firmware upgrade help with the pixel cropping being noticed on the HDMI input, or could some of this have to do with the source player and/or HD decoder box? Some do crop pixels in and of themselves, some don't.

Dan

Definitley go with 720p. There's section of the manual that explains resolutions and quality.

Originally posted by bnt5
Oh crap that's just great...one more shadow of doubt about my AE700 preorder....maybe the sony HS51 is really better, anyone have any thoughts about jumping off the Panasonic ship? (lookin for a little reassurance here)

I have a 700 on pre-order. Due to be shipped next week. I currently own a 500. I'm considering (still am kinda) the HS51. However - these are the reasons I think I'll stick with the 700 (not in any particular order):

1) I'm scared to death the Sony will show occasional SDE. It sounds like Sony has taken a step backwards in this area. I sit 15 feet back from a 106" screen and I never see SDE on my 500. This is my biggest concern. I don't want to go there.

2) 21 foot throw for a 106" screen. Able to put the projector all the way in the back of the room (like a movie theatre) The Sony would have to be located at about 15 feet (which is directly above my head)

3) I love the ergonomics / utilization / style and lay-out of the Panasonic remote control and menu systems. I'm funny about this.

4) As my room has partial white walls above (black fabric) 4 foot high wainscotting and a white ceiling (wife factor) - I don't believe I will actually "see" all the benefits of Sony's improved contrast.

5) VB and FPN are a concern - and my 500 suffers slightly from these artifacts - but the 700 I viewed was much improved in these areas - and I'm crossing my fingers that my new 700 will be OK as well. I don't expect VB and FPN to be eliminated (as it is on the Sony) - but passable. I can deal with a little bit of each. Guess it's a crap shoot.

Any other thoughts?

NO PRICING DISCUSSION IS ALLOWED ON THIS FORUM.

I'm thinking of getting the 'Da-Lite Cinema Contour Fixed Wall Screen' with HCCV screen material.

The problem is that I cannot hang it on the wall because the screen will be about four feet in front of the Balcony door, so my question is (to anyone that may own this screen) if it would be okay to suspend the screen from a wire which would run from one side of the room to the other side of the room about six feet from the floor?

Would the screen still be tensioned propely to provide a flat projection surface?

For anyone interested, here's a shot of the 700 projecting onto my 53" HCCV screen in full daylight with tons of ambient light: http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php?photo=10537&size=big&sort=1&cat=508

The room has 3 large windows on the left side, two on either side of the screen (which you see in the picture), and a double-doorway behind the projector leads to a dining room that has lots of windows. Needless to say, a horrible amount of ambient light.

For general viewing, the picture in this situation ranges from fair to great depending on what you're watching (ie, sports = great, movies = tolerable).

On AE700 how does standard (analog) cable channels looks? I am sure
HD channels will appear good but what about other non-HD channels PQ?
Do you have to make any config changes on AE700 side? Anybody has any
experience with this?

I just wanted to add something to the excellent post above by John Ballentine, and this is not directed at just the current thread from the Swedish shootout.

I have attended 2 of these type of projector shootouts and when you go there, and actually see the projectors in action, the differences are really not that great. The current models of (home theater) digital projectors are all very good. It is a personal judgment of course, but "Spiderman" projected on a 100" screen, from a $6000 projector and a $1000 projector really isn't the night and day type of difference that some of the posts here at AVS will lead people to believe.

Also, about these shootouts, each individual projector set-up is incredibly important to the final picture quality. The video content, source, cables, switch boxes, screen size, screen material, ambient lighting, viewing distance, projector calibration,etc., all add or subtract from the picture quality. For instance, the projectors shown in dedicated theater are naturally going to look better than the ones that are set-up in hallways with a portable screen.

Which brings me to my final point. If you want a good home theater, don't obsess on just the projector. What is more important is the room design, projector placement, screen quality, lighting control, sound quality, video sources, program content, and so many other factors.

Originally posted by Shedrock

I have attended 2 of these type of projector shootouts and when you go there, and actually see the projectors in action, the differences are really not that great. The current models of (home theater) digital projectors are all very good. It is a personal judgment of course, but "Spiderman" projected on a 100" screen, from a $6000 projector and a $1000 projector really isn't the night and day type of difference that some of the posts here at AVS will lead people to believe.

Also, about these shootouts, each individual projector set-up is incredibly important to the final picture quality. The video content, source, cables, switch boxes, screen size, screen material, ambient lighting, viewing distance, projector calibration,etc., all add or subtract from the picture quality. For instance, the projectors shown in dedicated theater are naturally going to look better than the ones that are set-up in hallways with a portable screen.

Which brings me to my final point. If you want a good home theater, don't obsess on just the projector. What is more important is the room design, projector placement, screen quality, lighting control, sound quality, video sources, program content, and so many other factors.

While i do agree we arent at a night and day difference with projectors i think video ends up being similar to audio in the quest for the 'best home theater i can afford".

ITs not the 90% of the time where the gear is meeting expectations, its the three or four scenes in spiderman 2 where your friend leans over and says 'this picture is really fantastic'.

Same with audio, when doing ciritcal audio listening getting that extra 10% of performance that transforms perfromance reproduction in re-recreation. The kind of quality that almost takes your breath away.

We dont all have unlimited budgets (hardly any of us do) so we do the best with what we have but i think there is something to be said for the 'extra 10%.'

John

John Ballentine
What other reasons besides the possible chance of less VB and FPN are you upgrading to the 700? I have a 500 also, with minimal VB,FPN and I really can't see any reason to upgrade.

Originally posted by dh935
On AE700 how does standard (analog) cable channels looks? I am sure
HD channels will appear good but what about other non-HD channels PQ?
Do you have to make any config changes on AE700 side? Anybody has any
experience with this?

Here is what an analog cable channel looks like from the 700. (I realize my screen shots are a little ridiculous due to the small screen size.)

I'm using a cheap, 25' S-video cable. Actually, s-video first out of my Motorola cable box to my ReplayTV, another s-video from the Replay to my Marantz receiver, and then a 25' cable from the Marantz to the 700. Even with all that, the picture is good enough to watch during the day (to my eye):

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php?photo=10538&size=big&sort=1&cat=500

As far as configuration changes, you just press Video on the 700's remote. You can set the 700 to smart zoom to 16:9, leave it at 4:3, or stretch to full 16:9.

Thought I'd also report that my wife and I experienced the "white flash" on the 700 last night while watching Man on Fire (I believe someone else reported this earlier in this thread). I repeated the scene to be sure it wasn't on the disc. My wife claimed she saw it a second time as well. I'm not very bothered by it, but I would hope it wouldn't happen more often than once every couple hours. It's barely noticeable... almost like a quick lightening flash.

Is this 'white flash' a bulb problem? Is it something to be concerned about?

I was hoping someone could answer a question about where lens shift starts to affect PQ.

Due to some posts suggesting that "less lens shift is better", I mounted my AE700 on a rear shelf 62 inches from the floor, 21 feet away from a 52 x 92 screen. At this height, the PJ was pointing directly at the center of the screen, so there was no need to use any lens shift. Unfortunately, at this height the PJ was also frequently blinding family members when they moved into or out of their seats.

I moved the PJ shelf up 13" to 75" high, and the image on the screen moved up 10.5" (I guess the 1.5" difference is due to the distance from the screen). The lens shift lowered the image with no problem, and now my family isn't getting blinded as much anymore.

Given the distance from the screen, would this amount of vertical lens shift likely result in misconvergence? If not, should I be able to raise it another 4 inches with no problem? Thank you all for your advice!

--- John

My screenshots: http://personales.ya.com/Gn0m4/


QuinT.

Originally posted by bnt5
Oh crap that's just great...one more shadow of doubt about my AE700 preorder....maybe the sony HS51 is really better, anyone have any thoughts about jumping off the Panasonic ship? (lookin for a little reassurance here)

I also have an AE700 on pre-order and I am not worried about reports like this. I freaked out at the PJcentral review of the Sanyo Z3, then the head-to-head comparo calmed me down. Now I am chillin', because once you make a decision on any type of electronics, the "next big thing" is right behind it.

As a first-time projector owner, I think the AE700 is going to blow me away! And everyone I know who comes to see it in action! I can't wait! There are a bunch of guys out there with previous generation projectors who are diggin' 'em and having a great time watching movies and TV and playing video games! I don't think they don't care about the latest thing going on. And I don't care if under certain conditions some other projector blows the AE700 out of the water. Objectively the AE700 is a fine machine and will perform to exacting expectations.

One final reassurance: the AE700 case is very stylish and the HS51 is butt-ugly! I mean that Sony looks like a Kodak slide projector from from 1973! :D (Please no angry retorts - all in good fun! :))

I've got the solution to all your problems. Get some stinkin' curtains!
:)

Seriously though, sometimes I just think its odd when people complain about how bad the ambient light is. I've never found a window I couldn't cover.


Originally posted by NavinJohnson
For anyone interested, here's a shot of the 700 projecting onto my 53" HCCV screen in full daylight with tons of ambient light: http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php?photo=10537&size=big&sort=1&cat=508

The room has 3 large windows on the left side, two on either side of the screen (which you see in the picture), and a double-doorway behind the projector leads to a dining room that has lots of windows. Needless to say, a horrible amount of ambient light.

For general viewing, the picture in this situation ranges from fair to great depending on what you're watching (ie, sports = great, movies = tolerable).

Originally posted by thaxx
John Ballentine
What other reasons besides the possible chance of less VB and FPN are you upgrading to the 700? I have a 500 also, with minimal VB,FPN and I really can't see any reason to upgrade.

Three big reasons I'm up-grading:

1) The fan noise on the AE-700 is MUCH reduced over the 500. I never run my 500 on high bulb or with AI because the fan is too darn loud. With the 700 however - you can run the fan on high - and utilize the Dynamic Iris/AI sytem to realize a much higher contrast ratio over the 500. I sat very close to the 700 at Daniels (on high bulb w/Dynamic Iris on) and could barely hear the fan.

2) I really want to move my projector all the way to the back of my room. I have a slightly pitched ceiling and I hate the 500 hanging on a 18" pole (no lens-shift!) above my head. I hate looking up and seeing all the cables plugged into the back. (I know I'm suppose to only be looking at the screen) The 500 also has a lot of light-leakage that distracts me.

3) I noticed at Daniels that we were sitting less than 10 feet from his 92" screen - and the picture really looked tight. I can't explain it. The image just looked superior to my 500. As if it had a higher fill factor (I know it has the same D-4 panel) Maybe it has something to do with 1) above. I dunno. When I went home and played the same DVD - it just didn't look as good. Of course there are many many different factors involved (different screen/DVD Player/room, etc.)

And on a different note - I really dislike the "look" of the HS-51 case. I know that has nothing to do with picture quality - but I much prefer the look of the 700. Guess I'm wierd.

Hi guys,
Just watch a soccer match yesterday night. manchester united vs arsnel and found that the VB is quite annoying. any method to fix this?

yipchunyu, flicker adjustment?

Originally posted by TheFerret
yipchunyu, flicker adjustment?

i use DVI > HDMI cable input. I don't see the flicker adjustment menu. How to access this?

BTW, i bought a 77mm UV filter and a cc20r gel filter. I haven't attached to it yet but when I put the cc filter in front of the uv filter and use the video mode. The color is already quite accurate and the contrast seems to improve a little bit. Thx a lot for the 'filter method' from www.cine4home.de

Yipchunyu,
Does your 700 have VB problem with DVD viewing also?

Originally posted by TraderGordo
I've got the solution to all your problems. Get some stinkin' curtains!
:) ... I've never found a window I couldn't cover.

While this is a good solution for the dedicated home theater, it is not as appealing in a living room. Not everyone wants to live in a cave, or draw the drapes every time they watch a show. In these cases, the projector is sometimes being used as a replacement for a conventional CRT TV, not as a home theater.

Originally posted by tlink
...In these cases, the projector is sometimes being used as a replacement for a conventional CRT TV, not as a home theater.

I think it's tough to call a front projector a replacement for CRT (considering everything). Once Sony's black screen comes out, that might change.

Originally posted by RobZ
Yipchunyu,
Does your 700 have VB problem with DVD viewing also?

It's very good for viewing DVD and VB is very very few.
When it displays HD material (I only got some) and it's truely amazing and very very very very few VB.
But, I swicth to component input yesterday and viewing the match (but it's only in SD) and it shows lots of vb >_<

Originally posted by Borg
I think it's tough to call a front projector a replacement for CRT (considering everything). Once Sony's black screen comes out, that might change.

I replaced my NEC 30 inch TV with a front projector several months ago as an experiment. I haven't switched back yet. Admittedly I'm not a videophile, but the 1200 lumen image seems very watchable. This is obviously a matter of personal taste, though.

Originally posted by 3mentina
hi, many friends of mine are waiting for a panny 700...
... they would like to connect it to HTPC via DVI cable to HDMI input but, I don't know why, they are afraid of the fact that panny 700 can't accept PC input via HDMI but only via VGA input.

Are they wrong?

Me, I don't have that kind of problem since I play with a Z2. But it would be a sin if what they can't link HDMI to PC.

Thank you.

I have no problems with connecton thru my HTPC Radeon 9800 DVI output connection to Pannty AE700 projector via DVI/HDMI cable. The picture is beautiful.

I can't say the same for my RCA DTC-210 Directv satelite receiver DVI output. I get weird colors on the projector when I plug it's DVI output to HDMI input of the AE700 projector.

Can anyone suggest the latest and greates Directv satellite receiver that is known to be compatible with AE700 projector?

Hi guys!

I've read this thread since about 6 weeks every day, and it has helped me with my decision for the PT-AE700. As a former CRT-guy (bad experience with a Marquee 8000) I have done the step from CRT to LCD - and: in many fields this Pana beats MY former Marquee!

Now I own this PT-AE700E (as I live in Switzerland, Europe - I hope my English is not too bad...) since one week and I've used it for about 30 hours. I use the Cinema1 or Natural Mode for viewing. Screen is the white colored wall until today. I feed the PJ with an old Sony DVP-735D...something over YCbCr.

Strong Points:
++ Colors! They are GREAT out of the box! Very accurate, very life-like. I never achieved these colors with the Marquee.... Color rules!!!!

++ Usability is very good. Quite simple and straightforward for a former CRT-guy. PJ is small and beautiful to look at.

+ PJ will be tuned with filters and light-meter -> picture will aprove once more! But I have to collect know-how about this...

+ Shadow details: Darker movies also work with this PJ, the details are good, Gamma seems life-like!

+ Fan Noise is very low! I have placed the PJ about 30cm away from my head, but it does not disturb me...

+ VB can be reduced to practically non-existent (flicker adj)

+ No screendoor visible

Not so Strong Points:
- Black is dark grey (in this department the CRT was better!). I hope I can improve this with a grey screen and filter tweaking.

- 576i (PAL) to 720p could be better I think, there are something like horizontal scanlines in moving bright scenes

- VB (and its correction) has something to do with the temperature of the PJ: if you calibrate it when the PJ is cold (after fireing up), you'll have VB again after about 20 minutes... (and vice-versa)

- I watch the movies in it's original sound (the most in English) and so I like to have subtitles. I have noticed in one movie, that the subtitles affect the dynamic iris (when subtitles are shown the overall brightness/contrast changes somehow). This phenomenon was only visible in one movie...

I can live with the weaker points (especially because I can change them to the better) with the PJ and I'm VERY HAPPY with the strong points. So this purchase was the right thing to do! I think I have bought the best PJ for the money I spent...


Dominik

Originally posted by Dominik
Hi guys!

I've read this thread since about 6 weeks every day, and it has helped me with my decision for the PT-AE700. As a former CRT-guy (bad experience with a Marquee 8000) I have done the step from CRT to LCD - and: in many fields this Pana beats MY former Marquee!

Now I own this PT-AE700E (as I live in Switzerland, Europe - I hope my English is not too bad...) since one week and I've used it for about 30 hours. I use the Cinema1 or Natural Mode for viewing. Screen is the white colored wall until today. I feed the PJ with an old Sony DVP-735D...something over YCbCr.

Strong Points:
++ Colors! They are GREAT out of the box! Very accurate, very life-like. I never achieved these colors with the Marquee.... Color rules!!!!

++ Usability is very good. Quite simple and straightforward for a former CRT-guy. PJ is small and beautiful to look at.

+ PJ will be tuned with filters and light-meter -> picture will aprove once more! But I have to collect know-how about this...

+ Shadow details: Darker movies also work with this PJ, the details are good, Gamma seems life-like!

+ Fan Noise is very low! I have placed the PJ about 30cm away from my head, but it does not disturb me...

+ VB can be reduced to practically non-existent (flicker adj)

+ No screendoor visible

Not so Strong Points:
- Black is dark grey (in this department the CRT was better!). I hope I can improve this with a grey screen and filter tweaking.

- 576i (PAL) to 720p could be better I think, there are something like horizontal scanlines in moving bright scenes

- VB (and its correction) has something to do with the temperature of the PJ: if you calibrate it when the PJ is cold (after fireing up), you'll have VB again after about 20 minutes... (and vice-versa)

- I watch the movies in it's original sound (the most in English) and so I like to have subtitles. I have noticed in one movie, that the subtitles affect the dynamic iris (when subtitles are shown the overall brightness/contrast changes somehow). This phenomenon was only visible in one movie...

I can live with the weaker points (especially because I can change them to the better) with the PJ and I'm VERY HAPPY with the strong points. So this purchase was the right thing to do! I think I have bought the best PJ for the money I spent...


Dominik

How can u fix the VB by flicker adj?

Originally posted by yipchunyu
Hi guys,
Just watch a soccer match yesterday night. manchester united vs arsnel and found that the VB is quite annoying. any method to fix this?

Yipchunyu - Flicker adjust: Menu - Options - press OSD and hold it for 5 seconds. When service menu appears, select Flicker adjust. Use Left-Right on remote to minimize flicker for blue, red, and finally green screens (use the down arrow to scroll through screens). When done hit Menu again. This procedure eliminated ALL the VB on my 700. -- John

Hi all,just picked up my AE700 yesterday and have set it up.Just going to give my first impressions.
Before i get into that,my previouse projector was an AE500 and before that a Ae300.
Ive tried the 4805 but found rainbows far too distracting.My wife did as well.So i dont know about the 10% of population crap theory.
All i can say about the AE700 is wow.Its a far bigger improvement over my AE500 then the AE500 was over the AE300.Black levels are far better.It really isnt an issue anymore as far as im concerned.Contrast seems great.Its very bright.and th colours are fantastic.
I was pleasantly suprised by how good a picture it throws out.I was expecting a moderate improvement,but this seriously is a huge improvement.
VB is there,but very minimal.You really have to look for it.I cant notice it unless im trying quite hard to find it.Im guessing when i get a DVI-HDMI connector it will go away totally as it was lessened on my AE500 with DVI.
HD is totally awesome on it.So for asll those AE500 owners wondering wether to upgrade.Do it,its weel worth the extra cash.Really its a huge bargain,and im totally happy.No matter how good the HS51 ends up being.

Originally posted by jammin25
Yipchunyu - Flicker adjust: Menu - Options - press OSD and hold it for 5 seconds. When service menu appears, select Flicker adjust. Use Left-Right on remote to minimize flicker for blue, red, and finally green screens (use the down arrow to scroll through screens). When done hit Menu again. This procedure eliminated ALL the VB on my 700. -- John

thx, will check it later tonight. btw, does powerstips is a must if the AE700 already display 1280*720?

Originally posted by Dominik

- VB (and its correction) has something to do with the temperature of the PJ: if you calibrate it when the PJ is cold (after fireing up), you'll have VB again after about 20 minutes... (and vice-versa)


Thanks for the review, Dominik. I would be interested to hear more of your observations about the temperature effects on VB.

By the way, your English is excellent!

1..I know its been answered but i can find it. How do u adjust the VB on the 700 (how do u get the flicker screen option-something aboiut holding a button down for 5 sec???)

2. Does the flicker adjustment work via HDMI?

thanks

ps ill save this page to favourites when it gets answered saving me ask the question down the track :)

save the previous page instead

1) Anyone know of service menu documentation on the web or anyone here have anything? (Curious as to what else is in there, also some people have a foreign language model and the service menu's aren't in user manual so they may be hard to navigate).

2) Can a current owner tell me where the projector's feet are on the bottom in relation to the sides of the projector? The only reason I ask is that I'm building the shelf before I get the projector, and I just want to know if I can safely round the front corners or if the feet come down right on the corners. I want my shelf to be as small as possible.

Curious to what dimensions you are building the shelf, I'd assume some space behind it for cable hookups. I think I would like a hole in the center of the shelf next to the wall for routing of cables.

Originally posted by TraderGordo
2) Can a current owner tell me where the projector's feet are on the bottom in relation to the sides of the projector? The only reason I ask is that I'm building the shelf before I get the projector, and I just want to know if I can safely round the front corners or if the feet come down right on the corners. I want my shelf to be as small as possible.

Press MENU.
Highlight OPTION and press ENTER.
Highlight OSD and hold ENTER on the remote for approx 5 seconds.
The 'Service Menu' (Ext Option) will appear.
Scroll down to FLICKER ADJ and press ENTER.
Use Left and Right on the remote to adjust the flicker value.

The feet are pretty close to the front corners. I'd say 1/2" back and 1/2" in from the sides.

Originally posted by Milehigh
Curious to what dimensions you are building the shelf, I'd assume some space behind it for cable hookups. I think I would like a hole in the center of the shelf next to the wall for routing of cables.

13 3/16" x 13 5/8" (leaves 3 inches for cabling). I'll round the corners slightly just to remove sharp edges. My hole in the wall will be directly behind the projector (i.e. shelf goes just below cabling hole in wall) so I won't need any holes in the shelf itself.

Originally posted by NavinJohnson
For anyone interested, here's a shot of the 700 projecting onto my 53" HCCV screen in full daylight with tons of ambient light:

Thanks so much for posting that. I have been nervous about spending the money for a FP and Screen because I am putting it in my living room and I watch some TV during the day. But now, after seeing that pic and the "basic cable" pic I feel much more confident. My lighting conditions are, though not optimum, quite a bit better.

So far my plans are HD Tivo, OTA locals, and the 700. I haven't decided on a screen yet, may just use the wall at first to decide on size and exact location.

Thanks again.

Originally posted by anydaygolfer
I have no problems with connecton thru my HTPC Radeon 9800 DVI output connection to Pannty AE700 projector via DVI/HDMI cable. The picture is beautiful.

I can't say the same for my RCA DTC-210 Directv satelite receiver DVI output. I get weird colors on the projector when I plug it's DVI output to HDMI input of the AE700 projector.

Can anyone suggest the latest and greates Directv satellite receiver that is known to be compatible with AE700 projector?

Anydaygolfer,

I also have the DTC 210. There is a switch on the back of the unit you must set to DVI for the DVI output to work properly.

John

Originally posted by TraderGordo
13 3/16" x 13 5/8" (leaves 3 inches for cabling). I'll round the corners slightly just to remove sharp edges. My hole in the wall will be directly behind the projector (i.e. shelf goes just below cabling hole in wall) so I won't need any holes in the shelf itself.

Im planning on doing the same thing but i want to bolt the projector to the shelf for protection from earthquakes. Where can i find a template for the hole locations.

Does anyone have the English language pdf manual for the U.S. AE700? I tried pulling it off of the Panasonic site, but it won't load. I just get a blank screen.

Did they take it off?

Any more information on how to adjust the pixel cropping problem (or is part of this coming from the sources be used-- not all players and decoders display all of the svailable pixels for whatever strange reason)?

Could there be something within the bowels of the service menu, or could pressure be put on Panasonic to fix this with a firmware update?

Originally posted by stroh
Thanks so much for posting that. I have been nervous about spending the money for a FP and Screen because I am putting it in my living room and I watch some TV during the day. But now, after seeing that pic and the "basic cable" pic I feel much more confident. My lighting conditions are, though not optimum, quite a bit better. ... I haven't decided on a screen yet, may just use the wall at first to decide on size and exact location.
Ditto. Appears as though it could be used for occasional SD TV during the day (esp. zoomed in to a smaller viewing area) and for DVD's, etc. in the evening. I'm strongly considering this in preference to a plasma. Savings would obviously be considerable, and I also like the larger image for movies in the evening. ... Will be interested in your screen choice; i.e, what screen will be optimal for some ambiant light in combination with the AE700?

Never mind about the manual, I figured it out.

:D

Question for AE-700 or 500 owners: I am receiving my 700 this week and will have limited time to evaluate and decide if it is a keeper. For this reason, I would appreciate any recommended basic settings (from AE-700 owners) for best PQ so that I do not have to spend any time (initially) setting it up with Avia or VE. More than 4 hours use would cause a restocking fee. Also, what is the best movie and/or scene to look for vertical banding?

As for movie scenes: I would highly avoid the Tatooine (sp?) desert scenes from Star Wars: A New Hope. Some have been commenting that that brings out the VB, and they've been using it as a yard stick in previous reviews. What they don't seem to get is that the film in the camera was damaged by extreme dry heat, which led to a streaking of the film very similar in look to VB. The same negative damage happened to Lawrence of Arabia. You could mistake it for VB, when it is not.

I'll leave the rest to the owners of the AE700. I'd like to know this as well, since I too would not wish to suffer a restocking fee if the projector has gross misalignment or dead pixels.

Does anyone know what country the 700 is made in?

I talked to the customs office in Canada and they said if they product is made in the USA then I would only have to pay GST tax (7 %) but if it was made say in Japan I would have to pay 8% import tax + the 7% duty

As for movie scenes: I would highly avoid the Tatooine (sp?) desert scenes from Star Wars: A New Hope. Some have been commenting that that brings out the VB, and they've been using it as a yard stick in previous reviews. What they don't seem to get is that the film in the camera was damaged by extreme dry heat, which led to a streaking of the film very similar in look to VB. The same negative damage happened to Lawrence of Arabia. You could mistake it for VB, when it is not. Interesting. I just watched that very scene on my projector and there was nothing that resembled VB. If what you're saying is true than you should be able to see it on all projectors.

It looked very good to me.
Maybe you can give me an exact location on the DVD to look at.

There are similar scenes in other movies (usually desert) that have VB look on my 34" Sony.

I believe the latest DVDs cleaned up the Tatooine issue. I heard that was present in the VHS/Laser Disc releases of the passed, but it's now gone.

I believe the latest DVDs cleaned up the Tatooine issue. I heard that was present in the VHS/Laser Disc releases of the passed, but it's now gone. I would agree with this.

The new DVD transfer is amazing.

It has been lessened by digital tweeking, but Lowry Digital said they couldn't get rid of it completely.

Robert A. Harris, in his restoration efforts for Lawrence, also said the negative damage done at the time of filming was unrepairable, and in order to lessen the visibility of the streaking it would ruin the color balance and other critical aspects of the scenes.

It's most noticeable when the droids first appear on the planet.

Dan

P.S. I didn't buy the DVD, but I did watch it at a friend's house for curiosity sake. My opinion of the "changes" stand. What was Lucas thinking??? But, I digress...

RobZ,

I believe you are supposed to have equipment lists in your profile rather than your signature. Otherwise, someone searching for info on a specific piece of equipment (that happens to be on your list) will get every thread you post in whether it relates to that piece of equipment or not. Not a big deal... justa suggestion...

reap

Originally posted by Dan Hitchman


P.S. I didn't buy the DVD, but I did watch it at a friend's house for curiosity sake. My opinion of the "changes" stand. What was Lucas thinking??? But, I digress...

Indeed, and what was he thinking when he came up with Ja Ja Binks. What a
pain in the butt.

I digress also.

Has anyone purchased a 700 that had dead pixels? If so what was the extent. Is there an offical Panasonic policy stance?

Reaper,
Never thought of that.

Yes, please Rob. Remove it from the sig.

A few times people have mentioned "firmware updates". I'm just curious, has panasonic EVER issued firmware updates for their other projector models? Is this even a possibility? If so, how does one go about installing a firmware update?

Anyone know if the 700 has same lens size as the 300/500 for addition of filter?

There has been a lot of talk about overscan with the 700 via DVI-to-HDMI with a HTPC. Apparently it is truly 1:1 but with a few rows of pixels not lit on the top and bottom.

If this is true - it is actually 1:1 - why is it a big deal? I am currently using a PC in my system as a music jukebox (secure rips and bit-perfect playback via ASIO). I have not used Powerstrip nor TheaterTek or FFDShow, but if Powerstrip allows any size desktop why not just choose 1280x7xx until you get all the pixels showing? That eliminates the cut off toolbars etc., and since you are scaling to a non-multiple of 480 with FFDShow anyway why does it matter if it is exactly 720 or if it is, say, 708 or something?

Am I missing something here? Anyone with a 700 and a HTPC willing to try this?

Could someone comment on "peak-a-boo" vertical motion artifacts? Peak-a-boo scanlines or peak-a-boo screen door. Whatever you call it. I've seen it on my L200 and I've seen it on a Sanyo Z1. I've also seen it on the AE300 and I wasn't thrilled with it. Apparantly peak-a-boo's are worse on the AE300 vs the Sanyo Z1 and worse on the 500 vs the Z2 etc. I suspect, as do others, that its the smooth screen that causes it. I wish you could remove smooth screen or at least adjust its exact affect. To me at least, it seems that defocussing works just as well.

How bad are the peak-a-boo's with the AE700?

N.B. Peak-a-boo's are correlated in some way to vertical banding and the flicker tweak. If your flicker tweak is out and you have vertical banding, the peak-a-boo's can potentially be bad.

I have always been able to spot VB by simply looking at red, green, blue, and gray fullscreen fields.

Originally posted by Dan Hitchman


It's most noticeable when the droids first appear on the planet.
I'll have to take a closer look, I was looking for it and didn't see it the first time.



P.S. I didn't buy the DVD, but I did watch it at a friend's house for curiosity sake. My opinion of the "changes" stand. What was Lucas thinking??? But, I digress... Don't get me started. ;)

My 500 does not have peek-a-boos. I have tweaked the flicker tweak as best I can - and my unit has very little VB. So maybe they are correlated in some way to vertical banding / flicker tweak.

I didn't see any on the 700 I previewed either.

Either that or the conditions of 'peek-a-boo' scan-lines being discerned is much like DLP rainbows, John.

Originally posted by Birchwood
Has anyone purchased a 700 that had dead pixels? If so what was the extent. Is there an offical Panasonic policy stance?

From the Panasonic PT-AE700U Operating Instructions:

The liquid crystal panel of the projector is built with very high precision technology to provide fine picture details. Occasionally, a few non-active pixels may appear on the screen as fixed points of blue, green or red. Please note that this does not affect the performance of your LCD.

Kinda like a tire manufacturer saying "The steel belt of the tire is built with very high precision technology to provide fine ride and handling qualities. Occasionally, your tire may not remain completely round or fully inflated. Please note that this does not affect the performance of your tire."

Well Projector People called me this morning and said my 700 will ship out from FL today or tomorrow. I hope this is all true!

I expect to pick up my AE700 this Saturday. I'm going to check for dead pixels and panel misalignment and I want to know what I should be looking for.

I don't expect perfection as I believe that most LCD projectors have some degree of panel misalignment and at normal viewing distances it is invisible.

What is an acceptable level of misalignment?

What should I be on the lookout for?

Any advice would be appreciated :)

Originally posted by yinyang
There has been a lot of talk about overscan with the 700 via DVI-to-HDMI with a HTPC. Apparently it is truly 1:1 but with a few rows of pixels not lit on the top and bottom.

If this is true - it is actually 1:1 - why is it a big deal? I am currently using a PC in my system as a music jukebox (secure rips and bit-perfect playback via ASIO). I have not used Powerstrip nor TheaterTek or FFDShow, but if Powerstrip allows any size desktop why not just choose 1280x7xx until you get all the pixels showing? That eliminates the cut off toolbars etc., and since you are scaling to a non-multiple of 480 with FFDShow anyway why does it matter if it is exactly 720 or if it is, say, 708 or something?

Am I missing something here? Anyone with a 700 and a HTPC willing to try this?

AE700 can get 1:1 mapping with HTPC but around 2% of vertical pixels don't be used to display. It only use 1280x707 to display the picture. It crops the top of the panel. You can use the vertical position at the menu to adjust the center position. It can show all the left and right pixels.

I think the situation of such overscan is acceptable.

Originally posted by TheFerret
Either that or the conditions of 'peek-a-boo' scan-lines being discerned is much like DLP rainbows, John.

If that's true - then I guess I'm very lucky I don't see them. I'm sure they would drive me crazy. I do specifically look for them however. RE: rainbows - I've seen them on every single DLP machine I've ever previewed(over 20). I'm so susceptible to them - it's scary (for me). Thank god for LCD (and DILA) - or I'd still be watching a small tube TV.

Which reminds me of the first time I seriously previewed a (digital) projector (Sharp 9K). Within two minutes of viewing a demo DVD - I asked the salesman what the 2 tiny dots on the screen were (I now know they were dead/inactive pixels). he told me it was a "screen defect." I then asked him what the "flashing" was I was seeing (rainbows), as It was kinda freaking me out. He looked at me like I was crazy.

I always notice rainbows on DLP projectors too.
Personally I find that the faster you move your eyes from one area of the picture to another, the more you see the rainbow effect. If I intentionally move my eyes slowly I don't notice the rainbows anymore.
So maybe the people that don't see rainbows have slower eyes? Or they just don't look around as much?
Just wondering here... :)

I've had my AE700 for about 2 weeks now (50+ hours) and I have noticed a single blue pixel. From normal viewing distance it is completely unnoticeable, but from 3 feet you can see it. At this point I don't feel it an issue. I plan to send an email to Panasonic to fins out what their official policy is.

In addition I had my first case of Vertical Banding, but I believe it is cable related. I had my HiPix on Component Out and the picture looked fine, but I wanted to use the pass through, so I connected to the VGA port and the VB appeared. I am using standard VGA cables (with and extender).

I have a 25' SVGA cable w/ ferrite core ends on order. I'll post the results.

Dave

John, you seem to be in the same boat as me. I don't want to see DLP rainbows, but unfortunately my brain has a different stance. I didn't even know scan-lines and LCD projectors could be talked about in the same sentance, and the demonstration of the last LCD projector was completely without an conscious knowledge of the two being brought together.

In fact, when John (Eaton) had me and a friend over I was focued on other aspects of the technical quality of the image (SDE, VB, FPN, etc.) and not something I auto-equate to analog displays. Pretty surprising. And I have yet to sit/stand in front of a DLP projector and not see rainbows--even when I'm not looking for them.

Some measurements from AE700

http://www.avbuzz.com/new_home/w/200410/ae700/ckl/cklae700.php#1

1st diagram is the color temp at "0"
2nd diagram is the RGB levels at "0"
3rd diagram is the color temp at "-1"
4th diagram is the RGB levels at "-1"
5th diagram is the color temp after Colorfacts D65 calibration
6th diagram is the RGB levels after Colorfacts D65 calibration
7th diagram is the measurement of primary colors
8th table is the contrast ratio at different modes
9th table is the comparison of brightness between Dynamic Iris On and Off
10th diagram is the gamma curve when the Dynamic Iris On after Colorfacts D65 calibration.

AE700 Shipping status from Visual Apex: "We'll be shipping them out at the end of this week."

More waiting...........

That sounds like what they told me last week. I did not expect to get mine until next week.

At least we're nearer than we were when we first ordered. But I'm like you....I'm having some trouble waiting for this baby.

Bob

Originally posted by
I wouldn't have called you out Eric, but it seemed very unreasonable to me to see you commenting about "believing 80% of what you SEE and 20% of what you HEAR." when you yourself are posting inaccurate/misleading remarks. I actually agree with your statement, but let's not prove it to be true by offering an example of why we should only believe 80% of what we see and 20% of what we hear.

Let's keep it straight and clear so no one is left scratching their heads wondering what the facts are.

Not to bring up sour grapes ... but these are now in stock. I just called with a credit card and was told I can come and pick it up by 5:00 EST :rolleyes:

Guess I wasn't wrong after-all ... good thing I bit my lip.

My only concern about pixel cropping on the HDMI input is that... this is a digital projector with a digital input, not an analog CRT. With 1:1 mapping at 720p and a source that doesn't crop pixels itself there shouldn't be ANY overscan or cropping. If you need to crop anything there is always the black matting around your screen.

Dan

I wonder just how many of us AVS'ers are on the VA pre-order list. 20? 50? 100?

I don't remember this much hoopla "late last year/early this year" over the 500's arrival. Or have I conveniently blocked it from my memory??? (There are over 83 pages on this thread now!)

I'm scheduled to pick up mine from my local dealer this Friday - perfect for extended testing and setup. Can't wait to see the World Series in HD on a screen bigger than my 17" monitor :D

My 700 was shipped out by Projector People. They are very fast movers and seem to have very good service.

I was impressed to see this thread surpass the TX-100 thread already. They had quite a jump start on this thread...


reap

Originally posted by pkiehne
I'm scheduled to pick up mine from my local dealer this Friday - perfect for extended testing and setup. Can't wait to see the World Series in HD on a screen bigger than my 17" monitor :D


Hopefully it goes 5 games :D

Please read next post

Last posting was cut off in half way..

Here it is again:

I have been a silent reader of this thread for sometime. Today, I got tracking number from my vendor by email for the AE700 shipment. By the way, I am in central VA.

This is going to be my first projector and I am so excited.

I need all your expertise to get this setup optimally. I have a 20' X 15 size room with 4 windows which will be used as a rec-room and HT room with white paint all over including sealing.

Here are some of my issues those need your expert opinions:

1. SCREEN: Planning 120' Fix diagonal. I like punchy colors and high contrast pictures. My choices:

a) DaLite HCCV
b) Any gray screen to help improve the black levels
c) Any Silver Screen to get more punch for the colors (suggestions)

2. SOURCE FOR DVD:

a) Denon 1910
b) Zenith DVB 318
C) HTPC with FFDshow, TheaterTek on ATI RADEON card

Thanks you all,

Some people here are too lazy to close curtains when viewing during daylight hours (or they don't have curtains at all because they somehow equate them to living in a cave). If you are one of those, cut your screen size down to maybe 80". If you aren't one of those, you should still probably cut the screen size down to 100" if you really want the best picture quality.


Originally posted by Kilav
I have been a silent reader of this thread for sometime. Today, I got tracking number from my vendor by email. By the way, I am in central VA.

This is going to be my first projector and I am so excited.

I need all your expertise to get this setup optimally. I have a 20' X 15 size room with 4 windows which will be used as a rec-room and HT room with white paint all over including sealing.

Here are some of my issues those need your expert opinions:

1. SCREEN: Planning 120' Fix diagonal. I like punchy colors and high contrast pictures. My choices:

a) DaLite HCCV
b) Any gray screen to help improve the black levels

Originally posted by Kilav
Last posting was cut off in half way..

I need all your expertise to get this setup optimally. I have a 20' X 15 size room with 4 windows which will be used as a rec-room and HT room with white paint all over including sealing.

Here are some of my issues those need your expert opinions:

1. SCREEN: Planning 120' Fix diagonal. I like punchy colors and high contrast pictures. My choices:



I think white paint, 120" screens and high contrast pictures are mutually exclusive.

You can survive with white paint on the ceiling, but beware the white walls - night time won't help either. Go for darkish flat finish paints this will help big time. Or as a minimum you could turn the wall you plan to project on to a feature wall and use darker flat paint there.

Hope this helps.

I ordered my L300U from VA previously, and this morning I got a call from them out of the blue asking if I was ready to upgrade to the 700. The lady I spoke to indicated that they would be getting their shipment in tomorrow and shipping them out this week.

I didn't have any luck getting them to waive the 15% restocking fee, just in case I wasn't pleased with the unit (VB, dead pixels, etc) when I received it. If they had done so, I probably would have given in and ordered...

Like many others, I'm awaiting this AE700 shortly. I'm new to the projector world but now seems like a great time to break in with all the new products and improvements. I had purchased an HP 6121 on sale recently to try this out. I've been somewhat surprised by how good even Standard Definition is with this unit as it is not really a consumer model.

HD is of course the big thing but my question is what to expect with the Panasonic AE700. I've been very surprised at the auto selection of the HP. it is showing non HD programming at 1920 x 1080.

At 1920 x 1080, regular movie channels are coming in like feature movies on DVD. I did not expect this and was wondering if this will in fact be a default for the Pansonic. I don't know if the Panasonic is capable of this display ratio. I'm on Cablevision's IO system using component cables (that I let them supply).

Granted my DVD player is also old, a Denon 1500 so it's nowhere near the best but I hope to upgrade once the Panasonic order goes through.

I also am awaiting a Da-Lite screen so I'm broadcasting anywhere from 65-85 in. diag. on an offwhite wall for the moment.

Any help to someone breaking in with these basic newbie based questions is appreciated.

I ordered my L300U from VA previously, and this morning I got a call from them out of the blue asking if I was ready to upgrade to the 700. The lady I spoke to indicated that they would be getting their shipment in tomorrow and shipping them out this week.

I preorderd with VA late last week and was a little bit afraid that I might not get in on this shipment. But if they are soliciting people who havent ordered one yet I think its safe to assume they are getting more units than they have preorders. This is good news!

Guess we will find out tomorrow!

Just spoke with VA and they said they are surprised the 700's havent showed up yet but 90% sure it will tomorrow as some other vendors have gotten theirs this afternoon.

By the way what color screen is everyone gonna use for the 700? I am leaning towards silver/grey.

Use a Firehawk. Absolute a great screen for LCD. Boosts both perceived CR and gain.

Dan

I got a shipping notice and tracking # for my AE700 from projectorpeople today.

My dalite highpower seems to be a good match for my L300U, although with the increased brightness of the newer PJ's its high gain may become less necessary.

Bottom line, your choice in screen all depends on your environment (light control, pull-down vs fixed screen, size, etc.) and preferences (maximum brightness vs maximum viewing cone, "plasma" look vs deepest blacks, etc.).

The Screens forum here is a great resource. to learn everything there is to know.

Best of luck.

-tony

I have a 700U on pre-order, and I almost bought a DVI-HDMI cable, and on further research on ATI's site, it shows that an ATI 9800 Pro has a DVI-I connector out, NOT a DVI-D. From my reading, a DVI-I connector is actually an analog connection, and from what I can tell, you can't mix analog and digital connectors. As you can tell, I plan to use a HTPC for my output device for SDTV and DVD playback...

Is the only connection from an ATI video card via the DVI port going to be a conversion (via their dongle) into the component inputs on my 700U?

Are all video cards using DVI-I connectors, or do some actually use a true digital out via a DVI-D connector?

Originally posted by Milehigh
I have a 700U on pre-order, and I almost bought a DVI-HDMI cable, and on further research on ATI's site, it shows that an ATI 9800 Pro has a DVI-I connector out, NOT a DVI-D. From my reading, a DVI-I connector is actually an analog connection, and from what I can tell, you can't mix analog and digital connectors. As you can tell, I plan to use a HTPC for my output device for SDTV and DVD playback...

Is the only connection from an ATI video card via the DVI port going to be a conversion (via their dongle) into the component inputs on my 700U?

Are all video cards using DVI-I connectors, or do some actually use a true digital out via a DVI-D connector?
Some additional reading is on your agenda. :)

DVI-I = {DVI-D} + {DVI-A}

And you can use a DVI-D cable on a DVI-I interface if you only intend to use a digital signal.

Whew, thanks... your explanation makes perfect sense. I thought I had read all I could on the subject, but missed your simple and concise explanation in all my reading :)

Originally posted by TheFerret
Some additional reading is on your agenda. :)

DVI-I = {DVI-D} + {DVI-A}

And you can use a DVI-D cable on a DVI-I interface if you only intend to use a digital signal.

While awaiting the Panny, I have a HP 6121 and I've been very surprised it is showing non HD programming at 1920 x 1080.

The Panny doesn't go that high. Does this mean that the HP has a better picture in SD?

My AE700 shipped from PP today, and I ordered a 110" Silverstar from Jason Turk today as well. When they both arrive, I will post results. I spent almost as much on the screen as the projector, but I figure the screen will last through several projectors.......

Chris

Excited for all you guys who are getting calls and tracking numbers.

I pre-ordered from VA a long time ago....I better be getting a call tomorrow!

LOL

Exciting times!

Bob

I am new to HD. My question is what cable do I need to connect my
Comcast HD set top box to AE700? My Comcast HD box has DVI out and AE700 is having "HDMI in". Do I need to use DVI to HDMI cable or adaptor?
Also is there any difference between DVI to HDMI or HDMI to DVI (single link) cable or they both same? Anybody has any experience in this area?
I don't want to use "component" out from HD set top box, I want to use DVI to HDMI connection.

I have had my AE100 (from Japan) for years now and I've been waiting for the HD version to upgrade. I have the original HTPC I set up years ago too. I have not kept up with anything since and I haven't even monkeyed around with Power Strip (or anything else on my HPTC) since I first set up the PJ all those years ago. I am not a tinkerer and just want it to be set up and left alone.

But now, I fear, it's time to take the plunge and upgrade to the 700.

1. I'll have to upgrade the HTPC (dreading this)
2. I'll have to find out if I need a filter and if so which one.
3. I'l have to see if my Dalite 106" Permwall HCCV is going to work with the 700.
4. I'll have to actually use the HTPC for something (probably a good idea since it has been nothing more than a glorified DVD player up to this point).
And I like the idea of learning about all the new HD software that turns your HTPC into a TiVo on steriods.

Deep sigh...

Anyone in the Phoenix area who is up to speed on HTPCs and the 700 want to make some $$ and help me out? I used to have more time to tinker but have had 2 children since the AE100 and time is so much more precious these days.

Now I'm off to the the screen forum to see if these teeney wrinkle marks on my screen are fixable (they're driving me k-nuts). Well, I guess I'm back to spending hours and hours with my eyes bleeding while I read up on all this stuff. Ah the memories...

Just upgraded my AE-100 to AE-700. Have no time to calibrate yet but most noticeable improvement for me is no more screendoor. Also will upgrade my Athlon t-bred/n-force-2/Radeon 8500 HTPC to Athlon-64 3000+ (939 pin, 90 nm)/N-force-3 HTPC. Still deciding on video card. Horrible vertical banding on test patterns from a monitor calibration tool (DMW and Nokia test generator) but thankfully can not notice it on actual films. Hope to tweak this new PJ soon with filters (settings are on economy, dynamic iris-off, on a 100 inch 16:9 screen). Also bought a Hi-Vision tuner so I'll have HD broadcast to match PJ. Anyone know where to buy an HDMI - DVI cable here in Japan? The ones in amazon.co.jp are quite expensive (US$150 for a 5 m cable)

Originally posted by Milehigh
I have a 700U on pre-order, and I almost bought a DVI-HDMI cable, and on further research on ATI's site, it shows that an ATI 9800 Pro has a DVI-I connector out, NOT a DVI-D. From my reading, a DVI-I connector is actually an analog connection, and from what I can tell, you can't mix analog and digital connectors. As you can tell, I plan to use a HTPC for my output device for SDTV and DVD playback...

Is the only connection from an ATI video card via the DVI port going to be a conversion (via their dongle) into the component inputs on my 700U?

Are all video cards using DVI-I connectors, or do some actually use a true digital out via a DVI-D connector?

Hi there MileHigh, are you from MileHigh comics. I order lots of comic books from your site. Very nice service. sorry for OT.

Originally posted by weapon_x11
Just upgraded my AE-100 to AE-700. Have no time to calibrate yet but most noticeable improvement for me is no more screendoor.

Really?! I have an AE100 too, and believe it or not SDE is its LEAST objectionable problem. I just defocus a bit, and it's not a problem at all..

I'm hoping for dramatic improvements in CR and black level. And a bit more lumens to combat occasional ambient light.. Am I dreaming? Shouldn't an ae700 be about 7X as good as an ae100? :-)

- Frank

I think the wow factor of owning a 1st FP is no longer there that why I'm a bit underwhelmed by the AE-700. SDE was very visible with AE-100 from about 13 ft away (same screen), I paid the same price for such an improvement so it was still worth it to me - bought it because I'll have HD source soon. My AE-100 has served me well (except for the color uniformity problem around the 1500 hrs). Hopefully the AE-700 will be better in that department. I swear my next upgrade will be from AE-700 to AE-1400. lol. 1080p?

Originally posted by dh935
I am new to HD. My question is what cable do I need to connect my
Comcast HD set top box to AE700? My Comcast HD box has DVI out and AE700 is having "HDMI in". Do I need to use DVI to HDMI cable or adaptor?
Also is there any difference between DVI to HDMI or HDMI to DVI (single link) cable or they both same? Anybody has any experience in this area?
I don't want to use "component" out from HD set top box, I want to use DVI to HDMI connection.

You can get male DVI to female HDMI adapters or adapter cables. If you have a short run, the adapter cable will be cheaper. If you have a long run, you may want to buy a long HDMI-HDMI cable and adapt it at the source end. Then when your source has HDMI available you can eliminate the adapter.

Nope, just in the Denver area, and waiting on my 700U phone call :) As for cables, I haven't seen a DVI male to HDMI female (so I can use a HDMI-HDMI male to male cord)... I'll have to check a couple other sites.

Originally posted by weapon_x11
Hi there MileHigh, are you from MileHigh comics. I order lots of comic books from your site. Very nice service. sorry for OT.

Question for previous projector owners -- the manual says you have to take the projector to a service location to change the blub. Is this really neccesary or just one of those liability/disclaimer type things? How hard is it to change a bulb on your own? (I can see a "how many AVSers does it take to change a light bulb?" joke in here somewhere).

Originally posted by duihlein
I've had my AE700 for about 2 weeks now (50+ hours) and I have noticed a single blue pixel. From normal viewing distance it is completely unnoticeable, but from 3 feet you can see it. At this point I don't feel it an issue. I plan to send an email to Panasonic to fins out what their official policy is.

In addition I had my first case of Vertical Banding, but I believe it is cable related. I had my HiPix on Component Out and the picture looked fine, but I wanted to use the pass through, so I connected to the VGA port and the VB appeared. I am using standard VGA cables (with and extender).

I have a 25' SVGA cable w/ ferrite core ends on order. I'll post the results.

Dave

VB Update:

I change my HiPix to output 1080i instead of 720P and no more VB. I should get my new VGA cable in the next couple of days, but I now think it may be in the card. Perhaps it's time to upgrade my HTPC.

Dave

My ae700 arrived yesterday whilst I was away. Yippee, toys before xmas. Will test head/head vs tx100 this weekend

still want to add filter to increase the contrast ratio.
I bought one 55mm and it's too small. I also bought one 77mm with is suitable as it is the same as the outer range. but what other size of filter fits as 77mm's filters is very expensive. thx

one more question.
based on the review, it seems that the AE700 tends to have a bluish tone.
Can i use 81 series filter rather than the CC20R/CC30R filter?
Based on the web, the 81 Series of filters control the bluish coloration that affects daylight film. They can also remove excessive blue from the effects of electronic flash. Good for general scenics when the photographer wishes to remove the bluish cast from open shade or just add warmth to the photograph, with an 81EF having the greatest effect.

81 SERIES CONVERSION FACTORS

81 decreases color temperature from 3300 - 3200 degrees Kelvin

81A decreases color temperature from 3400 - 3200 degrees Kelvin

81B decreases color temperature from 3500 - 3200 degrees Kelvin

81C decreases color temperature from 3600 - 3200 degrees Kelvin

81D decreases color temperature from 3700 - 3200 degrees Kelvin

81EF decreases color temperature from 3900 - 3200 degrees Kelvin

Potus, I get screen door with my AE100 too (not as noticable with defocus of course). You may not be seeing it depending on screen size, viewing distance, etc. I sit about 13' away from my 106" screen. But enough about our relics, this is an AE700 thread, right.

I'll be waiting to buy my AE700 until you guys figure out all the appropriate power strip settings, the 1:1 pixel match (if possible with this PJ), best screen, whether a filter really help the PQ and if so which one, etc.

Is there any way for someone to PM me with the lowest dealer price they have found or is this a volation of forum rules?

Slightly OT - anyone know any retailer in Europe (so i dont pay big shipping + extra taxes for importing from USA to EU) that have DVI-D->HDMI adaptor for sale for normal price?
I want to use it with my existing DVI-D 3m cable to connect HTPC to AE700 (still 2 weeks till it will be here (.

Mine was just delivered today. Right in time for the last game of the world series.

Originally posted by TraderGordo
Question for previous projector owners -- the manual says you have to take the projector to a service location to change the blub. Is this really neccesary or just one of those liability/disclaimer type things? How hard is it to change a bulb on your own? (I can see a "how many AVSers does it take to change a light bulb?" joke in here somewhere).

If the bulb fails while under warranty - the entire projector MUST be shipped to the Illinois service center for replacement. If projector is out-of-warranty you can easily change the bulb yourself.

Originally posted by TraderGordo
Mine was just delivered today. Right in time for the last game of the world series.

After you get it set up - let us know what you think. That is after the ...LAST game of the World Series tonight.

I just ordered the AE700!!! The seller said I should see it in 2-6 days. I really hope it gets here by the weekend!! I only had my 500U for 2 months before I bought this!! I am really sick.

I'm glad other people are finally getting their projectors...now we can start talking about tweaks/tips and tricks! :D

Originally posted by Kirk Ritari
Hopefully it goes 5 games :D

I belive in the curse, I am expecting a full seven games :D

i was wondering if anyone has any pictures of this fine piece of machinery in action.

Originally posted by bigkev4123
i was wondering if anyone has any pictures of this fine piece of machinery in action.

There's a few links in this very thread...

Here's one example posted earlier... ~page 80 or so... by Gn0m4 I think...
http://personales.ya.com/Gn0m4/

Does anyone know how much the menus are used (just to set it up and that's it or often when switching video modes and stuff like that), or can someone post pictures of the menus?

If the menu's were all in Japaneses would it be hard to use?

Originally posted by amrod
Does anyone know how much the menus are used (just to set it up and that's it or often when switching video modes and stuff like that), or can someone post pictures of the menus?

If the menu's were all in Japaneses would it be hard to use?

I have the Japanese model. Its essentially identical to the US model except for the Japanese menus and the lack of a "language" choice on the main menu where you can select a different language.

I was pleasantly surprised to find the remote control was all ENGLISH. My biggest worry was that the service menus would be in Japanese (because they aren't documented in the English user manual). I was really surprised to see that the service menus are also in English! The only Japanese is the regular menus, but they are accompanied by icons which allow you to easily identify them (not to mention they are fully documented in the English user's manual which can be downloaded free). Once you are setup, you don't really use the menus anyway.

I'm told the big downside to buying one from Japan is that you have to ship it to japan for any service work (don't know if this is true or not?). Personally, for me I think it was worth it. Vendor had no stuck / no dead pixel guarantee which nobody in the US has. Shipping took TWO DAYS.

I think i bought from the same vendor. It is good to hear it is a good place to buy. Cheap too!!

So if I'm reading the general content of this rather extensive thread correctly:

The AE700 has an excellent overall price vs. performance niche.

The black levels and contrast are extremely good for LCD providing you use the dynamic iris (only the new Sony HS51 seems to be ahead), but aren't quite up to the level of some of the HD2+ based DLP models (I'm thinking PE8700, even though it's more expensive).

The image is "decent" with SD, "good" with 480P DVD, but "excellent" with HD sources and with upconverting DVI DVD players.

SDE is nearly (or totally) non-existent from a reasonable viewing distance.

A grey screen combined with a controlled light environment are more than adequate for a 106 inch image.

One vendor in particular has gotten shipments out and several other vendors are on the cusp of delivery.

This isn't a review, just looking for confirmation. I've been hemming and hawing about this projector ever since I first read about it, and want to see if my thoughts are valid from those who have had first hand experience.

Just called VA - (4:35EST) they still have not recieved the AE700 shipment according to customer service.

Originally posted by TraderGordo
I was really surprised to see that the service menus are also in English! The only Japanese is the regular menus, but they are accompanied by icons

Gordo: I'm considering the Japanese model but concerned about setting this thing up since its my first PJ. Is there any chance you could post a screen shot of the Service and Regular menus. That may allay my fears.

thanks

Originally posted by mikeyc
Gordo: I'm considering the Japanese model but concerned about setting this thing up since its my first PJ. Is there any chance you could post a screen shot of the Service and Regular menus. That may allay my fears.

thanks

I don't know how to take good pictures with my digital camera in low light, but these will give you an idea of the Japanese menus. First one is the main menu, second one is the service menu.

http://www.creationfaq.net/htpc/ae700mainmenu.jpg
http://www.creationfaq.net/htpc/ae700servicemenu.jpg

I've already learned some Japanese. Up/Down to select, left/right to adjust. The characters in the upper-right is Japanese for "ON".

MainMenu From English User Manual:
http://www.creationfaq.net/HTPC/ae700mainmenuEnglish.jpg

Originally posted by zxlr8
I just ordered the AE700!!! The seller said I should see it in 2-6 days. I really hope it gets here by the weekend!! I only had my 500U for 2 months before I bought this!! I am really sick.


Join the club. it's called upgradeitis...

My upgradeitis is a somewhat minor case - usually I'm able to resist at least long enough to skip a product generation. Frequenting AVS Forum seems to be bad for my immune system though, as the upgraditis symptoms are much more acute when I'm here...

Would be nice if they didn't lock the Japanese OSD. That was my one pet peeve about my AE500. No idea why they bothered to do that.

anyone gotten theirs yet from visual apex? or heard any word when they'll be shipping them?

also when i get mine anyone in the area want to help me calibrate/tweak it or whatever? i have no idea what i'm doing

I've completed some searching on Lens Shift and have a specific question.

First: Based on ProjectorCentral.com, the maximum throw for a 96" screen with 1x Zoom is 19.4'. How accurate is this? I plan on mounting mine exactly 19' from the screen. I have been doing some measurements and want to be sure 19' for a 96" screen will really work.

Second: The front of my room will be 7.5' high, while the back will be 6.5'. The center of the screen will measure 5' from the floor. With the lens sitting at 5' in the back, the viewers heads in the back row will block the projected path. Based on the AE700U Manual, the best picture is with the lens centered to the screen. Based on my drawings, I should be fine with an 18.75% shift (18.75% of the total screen height). This will put me mounting the projector with the center of the lens at 9 inches above the screen Center, or exactly 5'9". I've read that Lens shift degrades the picture. If I can mount my projector 19' from the screen (see First question), and the Zoom is at 1x, will a lens shift of 9 inches (18.75% of a 4 foot high screen) cause a noticeable degradation, or will I be OK?

I really do appreciate the help. I'm trying to plan everything in advance as I have the framing for my basement complete.

I ordered one from the same place (Visual Apex) and they're supposed to be the first ones to get them because their warehouse is right next door to Panasonic's in Seattle. They're hoping to ship next week. My biggest hang up is the throw distance for the unit with my screen (80 x 45). I know you can vary the distance because of the 2.0 optical zoom but what's the optimal distance for the unit? I'm just getting into this, my last TV was a 20 year old Sony!

Well I am not in a huge hurry, but I am annoyed with VA. I may switch my order just on principle. I don't think they have been completely honest with me.

Thanks everyone for the great info. Keep it coming while we wait for VA to figure out where the boat is with the projectors. It can't seem to find the dock right next to their store.

Tony,

A distance of 19.5' may work but from that distance and with a lumens rating of only 1000, you may sacrifice the high contrast properties of the projector. This may not be worth a dead-on (right angle) set up. It may be better to get closer and just mount the projector to the ceiling.

Thanks Keyman. I guess what I need to do then is look at Line of sight to be sure the Projector isn't in the way of the back row when I mount it closer. Then determine what Lens Shift I will need to use to mount it high enough to rid the line of sight problem. Then, the issue is: with the amount of Lens Shift I 'may' have to do, will it degrade the signal WORSE than mounting it 19' away and losing contrast? I wish I had a way to bring one to the room and try it first.

From everything I have read, the PQ is better if you place the 700 PJ as far away as you can w/o using the zoom. For example, I am getting a 106" screen so, I need to place mine around 20.5ft to 21.5 feet away. It seems to be the consensus that if you must use lens shift or zoom together, keep it to a minimum.

Originally posted by TraderGordo
I was really surprised to see that the service menus are also in English! The only Japanese is the regular menus, but they are accompanied by icons which allow you to easily identify them (not to mention they are fully documented in the English user's manual which can be downloaded free). Once you are setup, you don't really use the menus anyway

TraderGordo, Great! would you kindly confirm how to go to the service menu - I also have the Japanese version (bought locally as I live in Japan). Is it the same as the older Panny (i.e, press option button for a few seconds and service menu comes out? will try this later as I'm not at home right now)

Thanks.

It makes sense that it would be best to place the projector further from the screen to allow the image to project at a lesser angle. However, being that this projector has only 1000 lumens, the picture would be significantly dimmer?

Can someone explain the reason the projector is optimized to be in the center of the image and not top/bottom? It seems that the projector being there puts the projector generally in the field of view hanging from an ugly pole or something. I don't get it and would love some assistance. I may draw it up in my room again, too, like running strings for bullet patterns in CSI!

Umm, because it represents the position with the least amount distortion to the projected image's geometry? Electronic keystoning only helps so much.

Originally posted by weapon_x11
TraderGordo, Great! would you kindly confirm how to go to the service menu - I also have the Japanese version (bought locally as I live in Japan). Is it the same as the older Panny (i.e, press option button for a few seconds and service menu comes out? will try this later as I'm not at home right now)

Thanks.

Menu->Option
highlight "OSD"
Hold "ENTER" down for 5 seconds

[Flicker tweak is IN there]

Using VGA - the picture is badly positioned and cropped by default with a standard 1280x720 input signal. To correct this you simply add a 1280x720 resolution to your PC, and run the "AUTO" feature found in the AE700's position menu. See the tweaks thread, page 1, for details. Picture is perfect now with no overscan.

From the Projector Central review:


For those whose rooms allow options on projector placement, a longer throw distance is the better choice. That is because you want to create a narrow cone of projected light so that the light strikes the screen from edge to edge as close to perpendicular as possible. This will produce a more even reflection of light from the screen. Ideally, we like to avoid the extreme ends of the zoom range also since lenses tend to be less optically efficient at their extremes. Therefore, as an example if you were planning to install the AE700 to accommodate a 100" screen and you could choose anywhere between ten and twenty feet throw distance, then somewhere in the range of about 18 feet would be an optimum placement for best overall results.

So which is right? Does a longer throw cause a "significant loss in brightness" or is it the better choice as stated in the review? Look, I need help before I start drilling holes and running cable.;)

I can relate to the comments from Daflea. I see the lens shift configuration on the AE700 as its greatest weakness (at least for those of us who want to ceiling mount). I'm leaning toward purchasing the AE700 over the IF5700 and the Hitachi PJTX100, but the mounting issue for the AE700 is very undesirable for me and may lead me another direction. For a ceiling mount, it requires using at least 50% lens shift (which would put the top of the picture near the top of the ceiling) and it requires the maximum 63% if you want to drop the picture down another 7" (for a 110" diagonal 16:9 screen). Since the top of my screen needs to be 19" down from the ceiling because of a shelf/valance, this will require me to hang the AE700 a considerable distance down from the ceiling while using between 50% and 63% lens shift. I'll be mounting the projector 16' from the screen which is near the middle of its zoom range. I wish I understood better what effect this lens shift range will have on the image as I would prefer to only drop the projector 12" rather than 19" with an 8' ceiling. I would much prefer a fixed offset where the image is optimized at that offset or a lens shift range that is much greater (like what the Sanyo projectors have). Any comments from users that ceiling mount would be greatly appreciated!

I am also waiting impatiently for VA order for AE700. I am complete noobie and would value some advice on DVD player. I have no plans for HTPC. Currently have a simple Panny S55 player with component out. I want to buy DVI output player that is high quality at right price. Zenith sounds bad, not sure about others. I'm willing to wait for the right product, but I have a question:
Can I get by with component out from DVD and wait for the new Panny? If so, can you recommend quality cable to use?
Thanks a lot, Roy

kapoguy,

The Sanyo Z3 has the same problem. It's zero lens shift position is where the center of the lens points at the center of the screen.

"Does a longer throw cause a "significant loss in brightness" or is it the better choice as stated in the review? "

Why would it?

Originally posted by rogo
"Does a longer throw cause a "significant loss in brightness" or is it the better choice as stated in the review? "

Why would it?



Physics.

The intensity of a light source will diminish proportional to the inverse square of the distance from the source.


Not that give or take 10 feet will cause a significant loss in brightness.

Originally posted by yipchunyu
based on the review, it seems that the AE700 tends to have a bluish tone.
Can i use 81 series filter rather than the CC20R/CC30R filter?
Based on the web, the 81 Series of filters control the bluish coloration that affects daylight film. They can also remove excessive blue from the effects of electronic flash. Good for general scenics when the photographer wishes to remove the bluish cast from open shade or just add warmth to the photograph, with an 81EF having the greatest effect.

81 SERIES CONVERSION FACTORS

81 decreases color temperature from 3300 - 3200 degrees Kelvin

81A decreases color temperature from 3400 - 3200 degrees Kelvin

81B decreases color temperature from 3500 - 3200 degrees Kelvin

81C decreases color temperature from 3600 - 3200 degrees Kelvin

81D decreases color temperature from 3700 - 3200 degrees Kelvin

81EF decreases color temperature from 3900 - 3200 degrees Kelvin

Typical light spectrum of a 120 watt UHP mercury lamp at pHg = 200 atmospheres. The peaks give that blue/green cast that our eyes are particularly sensitive. The higher the pressure, the more red light is emitted. The blue/green dichroic filters on LCD displays redirect all that energy giving out high lumens but at a high colour temperature.

The ae700 uses a 130watt UHP/UHM lamp.

The filter charts shows typical transmission curves of CCR, coversion and the 499FLD filter used to filter the greenish cast of fluorescent light

Regards,
morpho

Originally posted by rockytopps
From the Projector Central review:




So which is right? Does a longer throw cause a "significant loss in brightness" or is it the better choice as stated in the review? Look, I need help before I start drilling holes and running cable.;)

Rhys is right. 10' difference will cause a negligible effect on brightness. The difference caused by distance is really only valid given a difference in area dispersion. In other words, as long as you're projecting an image the same size e.g. 106" diagonal. It's not going to make that much difference in brightness whether it's 10' back or 20' back. Not unless you smoke like a chimney and there will be a substantial amount of smoke/haze that the light has to travel through before it reaches the screen:)

In general, zero zoom and zero lens shift will optimize the image by using the portion of the lens with best optical properties. The edges of the lens when you use lens shift are where aberrations and image degradation start to show up. As far as using the zoom goes, I think projector central mentioned that from their review, you can zoom out to 80% of the maximum throw range while retaining best picture quality. Meaning given the diff between placing the PJ 10' for a 100" screen or 20'(just an example), if the 15' placement is where there is no zoom use at all, you could place it somewhere around 18' and still get the best image.

Physics.

Yes, physics comes into it

The intensity of a POINT source of light will diminish... In the case of a FOCUSED beam (as in a projector, i.e. not a point source), the same size screen will have the same brightness, no matter what the distance. For example, A 100 inch screen at 10 feet and 1x zoom factor will appear as bright as a 100 inch screen at 20 feet and 2x zoom factor.


However, in the case of a point source, ten feet can matter a lot. If the original beam distance is ten feet, then adding another ten feet will diminish a point source by a factor of 4 (as the distance has doubled). If the original distance is a thousand feet then adding ten feet won't affect the brightness much. It's not the absolute measurement of the two distances that matters, it's the relative distance between them that matters.

In brief: (given that the zoom lens doesn't have an optical flaw that increases effective f-stop as it is zoomed), your 100 inch screen will be of equal brightness irrespective of the distance your projector is from the screen.

Originally posted by Rhys
Physics.

The intensity of a light source will diminish proportional to the inverse square of the distance from the source.


Not that give or take 10 feet will cause a significant loss in brightness.

The intensity of a light source diminishes proportional to the inverse square of the distance
from the source because the area the light is distributed over increases as the square
of the distance. Specifically, a point light source will illuminate a sphere with radius R,
and the area of that sphere is 4pi*r^2, so a point source with intensity I lumens will illuminate
a sphere of radius r feet with an intensity of I/(4pi*r^2) lumens per square foot.

Changing the zoom of the lens, however, causes the light to be unevenly distributed
over the surface of the sphere. Specifically, given a screen of w feet by h feet, the
illumination at the screen is (I*C)/(w*h) lumens per square foot. C is a factor that
accounts for the fact that some of the intensity of the light source is "wasted" because
it doesn't get focused out of the projector and onto the screen. Now, as the zoom on
the projector changes and the projector is moved back at the same time, w and h remain
constant. C changes by a small amount because the aperture through which the effective
part of the light is projected onto the screen changes, but when you zoom out a factor of
two, the aperture goes from covering a small fraction of the sphere to a slightly smaller
fraction of the sphere, so the difference in C vs C' is negligible. So, given that I, w, and
h are constant, and C changes by only a very small amount, the lumens per square
foot on the screen also changes by a very small amount.

Originally posted by Rhys
Physics.

The intensity of a light source will diminish proportional to the inverse square of the distance from the source.


Not that give or take 10 feet will cause a significant loss in brightness.

Also, keep in mind that zooming to reduce the image size (to compensate for the image enlarging that occurs as you back the projector away) is essentially focusing (or "narrowing") the light you are throwing on the screen. If my experience with film projection is any indication, I wouldn't expect ANY reduction in brightness. The diminishing of intensity of a light source with distance is merely the product of viewing a smaller angle of light from the source, which is, a stray photon or two notwithstanding, completely rectified by focusing the light to fit a given area.. So, no, unless your room is filled with smoke or something else, I really don't think you'll experience any light loss at all with the distances we're talking about.

Now you're all making me sweat about MY Visual Apex order. WHAT? NEXT week?! Get outta here. I have a gathering of interested parties (which was damn tough to coordinate) scheduled for the 4th to unveil a well-dialed-in 700, which I thought included a good safety margin after being pumped full of VA's promises that they'd be the first to get them. Now Projector People has shipped their SECOND round out? I hate to be a whiner, but that really wasn't cool. If any VA folks are reading, you really shouldn't tell people stuff like that. It just seems hokey, and makes people afraid to order from you in the future. To be fair, they were very friendly, helpful & informative, but I really hope that 'next week' business isn't true.

KongFan.

I wanted to thank everyone for posting their comments on my original question regarding Lens Shift. From the majority, it appears that with a Projector mounted at 19' from a 96" screen, with only about 18.75% Lens Shift, I should be good to go.

One other question I was hoping someone could answer. ProjectorCentral.com's calculator shows that for a 96" screen, I can mount the projector at 19.4' from a 96" screen with 1xZoom. I will be mounting mine at 19' from the screen. I just want to be sure that PJCentral is accurate on the 19.4" throw for a 96". I'd hate to hook it up and see that it's really 18' or so, when I have a shelf built at 19'.

Thanks again,

Because I'm limited on wall space, I took some measurements last night and it looks like I'm shooting a 71" x 40" image from about 14' 6" away. Lots of light in a fairly small area, should be a nice bright image I would imagine :)

My order is with VA, but I guess I'm not as picky on delivery, as I still have to order parts to build my HTPC, and due to time constraints the next few days, I won't get that done till this weekend. At least my Ahanix D-Vine 4 showed up yesterday.

Originally posted by keyman
I ordered one from the same place (Visual Apex) and they're supposed to be the first ones to get them because their warehouse is right next door to Panasonic's in Seattle. They're hoping to ship next week. My biggest hang up is the throw distance for the unit with my screen (80 x 45). I know you can vary the distance because of the 2.0 optical zoom but what's the optimal distance for the unit? I'm just getting into this, my last TV was a 20 year old Sony!


Another forum sponsor has shipped approximately 200 this week and has them in stock.

yeah, VA definitely wasn't the first to get it, as a dealer and forum sponser shipped mine to me 2 weeks ago!

Another reason that longer throws are preferred is that they typically improve contrast over shorter throw setups. The reason is the angle of light. If light is hitting the screen at a sharper angle (short throw) it is more likely to be reflected off the screen and onto surrounding objects). A diagram would better explain but I don't have one...


Originally posted by PapaSloth
The intensity of a light source diminishes proportional to the inverse square of the distance
from the source because the area the light is distributed over increases as the square
of the distance. Specifically, a point light source will illuminate a sphere with radius R,
and the area of that sphere is 4pi*r^2, so a point source with intensity I lumens will illuminate
a sphere of radius r feet with an intensity of I/(4pi*r^2) lumens per square foot.

Changing the zoom of the lens, however, causes the light to be unevenly distributed
over the surface of the sphere. Specifically, given a screen of w feet by h feet, the
illumination at the screen is (I*C)/(w*h) lumens per square foot. C is a factor that
accounts for the fact that some of the intensity of the light source is "wasted" because
it doesn't get focused out of the projector and onto the screen. Now, as the zoom on
the projector changes and the projector is moved back at the same time, w and h remain
constant. C changes by a small amount because the aperture through which the effective
part of the light is projected onto the screen changes, but when you zoom out a factor of
two, the aperture goes from covering a small fraction of the sphere to a slightly smaller
fraction of the sphere, so the difference in C vs C' is negligible. So, given that I, w, and
h are constant, and C changes by only a very small amount, the lumens per square
foot on the screen also changes by a very small amount.

Originally posted by Aussie Bob
The intensity of a POINT source of light will diminish... In the case of a FOCUSED beam (as in a projector, i.e. not a point source), the same size screen will have the same brightness, no matter what the distance.

Aussie Bob is exactly right on this one. I've seen this missaplication of the inverse square law on this forum before. Once more, it does NOT apply to projectors or any other focused beam of light. Inverse square laws only apply to things that radiate in ALL directions (an "isotropic" source in science lingo), like a point radiation source, gravity, etc.

If you have a 2400 lumen projector and a 6' x 8' screen, you are getting 50 lumens/sq ft (also called ft-lamberts). That is, you have 6' x 8' = 48 sq. feet of screen, and 2400 lumens divded by 48 sq feet. It doesn't matter whether the projector is sitting at 10 ft or 20 ft, as long as you focus it on the same size screen.

If there is any difference between the brightness of the image between a 10 ft placement and a 20 ft placement, it is because of some inefficiency of the lens design. It has nothing to do with an "inverse square law."

Forgive me if I missed this bit of information. How many lumens does the 700 put out in Cinema1 mode? I am curious to compare it to the HS51. I intend to run it in Cinema1 mode to get the color accuracy if I purchase this model and I'd like to understand how it compares to the measured brightness of the HS51 as noted by WSR:

" Using the High lamp output and contrast set to maximum, the light output was 658 lumens."

"Using Low lamp output, results were 521 lumens"

"With the contrast control at its default setting of 80, the white point deviation on a 100 percent white field was below 5 dE (delta-E), and the light output was about 500 lumens on High and 400 lumens on low"

I am not seeing equivalent statements in the cine4home review. Anyone know how the brightness compares?

reap

I ordered my AE700 on Wed from an AVS sponsor. It should be here on Friday according to the tracking information. I will be projecting from the back of the room (19 ft) for with an approximate screen size of 106" diagonal. My theater room is light controlled, and I should be able to give you some idea of the relative brightness early next week if all goes as planned.

Trader Gordo San: Domo Arigato, your pics were very illuminating. (Sorry, couldn't resist). Your post was very helpful, the Japanese menu it doesn't seem so bad once you get the hang of it.

Well I've joined the happy club on this forum. I did just now switch my wait list order to one of the projector folks who sponsor this forum who said they have a bunch of these right now. I think it's where other people here are getting their units.

I will be getting mine tomorrow and will also share my thoughts with the people checking in on this link.

From what I heard the Sony isn't due to arrive in the states until late next month at the earliest so that made my decision easier. Or maybe it just made my decision for me.

Originally posted by romanesq
Well I've joined the happy club on this forum. I did just now switch my wait list order to one of the projector folks who sponsor this forum who said they have a bunch of these right now. I think it's where other people here are getting their units.

I will be getting mine tomorrow and will also share my thoughts with the people checking in on this link.

From what I heard the Sony isn't due to arrive in the states until late next month at the earliest so that made my decision easier. Or maybe it just made my decision for me.
Please quote your sources. I do not believe Sony has made any such announcements, and if its not coming from the horse's mouth (as opposed to a reseller looking to push product on hand) then its not official. This isn't to say when its actually coming out, but I take comments like this with fist-sized lumps of salt. :)

I do not understand why people are so worried about the lens shift. The L500u had 50%+ fixed lens shift and it projected a perfectly sharp picture. I think once you get it in your home, you will see it is not a problem. The ability to use less lens shift when you do not need it is nice as well. I think people are getting a little antsy about their long-awaited orders. I am too, but I ordered yesterday. I wonder if anybody remembers how offset it was at CEDIA. That would be a good place to start...

Originally posted by TheFerret
Please quote your sources. I do not believe Sony has made any such announcements, and if its not coming from the horse's mouth (as opposed to a reseller looking to push product on hand) then its not official. This isn't to say when its actually coming out, but I take comments like this with fist-sized lumps of salt. :)

The latest from Sony is that they haven't received any of their expected shipments to the US, and they aren't expecting to until mid to late November at the earliest. Unfortunately, it sounds a lot like what went on with the VW10HT, the HS10, and the HS20. :(

Originally posted by zxlr8
I wonder if anybody remembers how offset it was at CEDIA. That would be a good place to start...

The AE700 was set up on a table relatively close in height to the center of the screen. I doubt much if any lens shift was requred at the CEDIA demo.

reap

OK, well that is good to know. I wonder how it is affecting the picture when it moves the lens. It does not work like keystoning, so why would it affect the picture?

Originally posted by Kirk Ritari
The latest from Sony is that they haven't received any of their expected shipments to the US, and they aren't expecting to until mid to late November at the earliest. Unfortunately, it sounds a lot like what went on with the VW10HT, the HS10, and the HS20. :(
I'm a little lost here. I do not remember Sony making any announcements in the first place as to a date of availablility. Was this the case with previously Sony HT products? In other words, speaking from Sony history what were those models announced release dates and when was initial reception in the USA (thus determining the lag between those dates)?

Well... I just called the vendor I used and they say they will be getting their order in tomorrow and shipping them out in the afternoon. Unfortunately, I'll be heading out of town so I won't even be able to look at the thing until the following week.

As the basement isn't quite ready yet anyway, I'm really not that concerned though. A few extra weeks will give you guys a chance to figure out all of the tweaks and such!

Originally posted by TheFerret
I'm a little lost here. I do not remember Sony making any announcements in the first place as to a date of availablility. Was this the case with previously Sony HT products? In other words, speaking from Sony history what were those models announced release dates and when was initial reception in the USA (thus determining the lag between those dates)?

I believe you're right that there wasn't an actual shipping date. However, they did release this: http://news.designtechnica.com/article5349.html The other models I mentioned all went through a very limited release period, and that's the comparison I was trying to make, admittedly poorly.

Originally posted by zxlr8
OK, well that is good to know. I wonder how it is affecting the picture when it moves the lens. It does not work like keystoning, so why would it affect the picture?

Using lens shift physically moves the lens. The light passes through a different portion of the lens than it otherwise would. The most optimal portion of the lens is the center. Moving away form the center of the lens results in lumen reduction and convergence issue... all of which are much better than keystone correction, apparently.

reap

Lens shift in other projectors I have used does not really seem to affect picture quality very much if at all. Lets hope this one does just as good as the L500U. I was really impressed with it's quality and sharpness.

I just ordered this projector from a site sponsor. I had been lurking around here for close to a year and finally decided on this display technology and the store to give my business to. I must say that I had a great experience dealing with this sponsor and i would like to thank everyone here for their insight into the HT market. My 700u should arrive at my place tomorrow so I will report back on how it looks, but keep in mind this is my first projector based system. I will have something to compare it to since I spent 4-5 hours in a custom audio and video store yesterday viewing different machines with hd material. Again, I am looking forward to being a very active member here.

For those of you like myself, still waiting for your projector from VA, here's where you can get the operating manual to keep you pre-occupied.

catalog2.panasonic.com

Go to > Business and Professional > Professional Video > Projectors > Home Theater Projectors > View Models > AE700

You all have been very helpful regarding the recent throw distance issues but I still need further illumination!

I have a 80" x 45" (92") screen and can place the projector dead straight at it (no shift). On page 60 of Panasonic's operating manual, they have a projector distance calculator that gives you minimum and maximum range distances. These are shown as LT (length telephoto) and LW (length wide). As with trying to eliminate Shift, it seems to me that if you can establish a throw distance (for a given screen size) that also eliminates the wide angle and telephoto settings of the lens, you would have all your bases covered. Does this make sense? If so, would the ideal throw distance be midway between the minimum and maximum throw distances?

I have a 80" x 45" (92") screen and can place the projector dead straight at it (no shift). On page 60 of Panasonic's operating manual, they have a projector distance calculator that gives you minimum and maximum range distances. These are shown as LT (length telephoto) and LW (length wide). As with trying to eliminate Shift, it seems to me that if you can establish a throw distance (for a given screen size) that also eliminates the wide angle and telephoto settings of the lens, you would have all your bases covered. Does this make sense? If so, would the ideal throw distance be midway between the minimum and maximum throw distances? [/B][/QUOTE]


For the most part yes. While I don't believe there's actually an ideal distance, I think most here would agree that it's best not to use the extreme ranges of the lens. The range goes from just over 9' to about 18.5' for that size image. If you can put your projector at 14', go for it. I doubt you'd see any discernable difference in image quality, based on the info you've provided.

Thanks Kirk! ...and I thought Audio was tweeked-out!

Originally posted by zxlr8
Lens shift in other projectors I have used does not really seem to affect picture quality very much if at all. Lets hope this one does just as good as the L500U. I was really impressed with it's quality and sharpness.

I wonder if large lens diameter helps make this minimal picture effect possible? The cine4home.de site did comment on the impressive size of the lens on the AE700U.

My PJ should be sitting on my front porch right about now. Heading home at lunch to put that new puppy in the house!

Anyone order from ProjectorPoint? I'm being told 'hopefully' Friday for ship date.

Originally posted by echo512
Anyone order from ProjectorPoint? I'm being told 'hopefully' Friday for ship date.

Yeah, that's where mine's coming from as well. The person I talked to today sounded a bit more confident thatn "hopeful". Ordered my screen from them as well... it's been a bit lonely sitting in the box for the last couple of weeks...

Originally posted by TheFerret
Please quote your sources. I do not believe Sony has made any such announcements, and if its not coming from the horse's mouth (as opposed to a reseller looking to push product on hand) then its not official. This isn't to say when its actually coming out, but I take comments like this with fist-sized lumps of salt. :)

If I can use the word projector people without getting scorched, that is my source. Granted they are in the business of making a sale today but I was told that the actual amount of units coming to the US by early December is 50. That's probably a low ballpark figure, but for me that's more than a month out and no reason to wait. (I have an HP to return to Circuit City.)