Originally posted by stevenl241
Thanks for the reply Hmenke but sorry for the typo - I meant COMPONENT not composite video.....

That's what I'm trying to understand with the AE700
Either 480(i or p) via component video,
OR upconverting to 720p in the dvd player.

Will there be noticeable differences (to the average viewer)?

Thanks

I am looking right now for a good + affordable DVI or HDMI player ($200-$300) but so far options are limited. I expect there to be a noticeable difference due to eliminating D/A-A/D and analog noise artifacts over on the component run, but I cannot speak from personal experience yet.

The Bravo D2 is great for that kind of money. You can find it around $220 on ebay. I like it much more than other brands. It has options of brightness, contrast, and saturation or it. If your display device doesn't have very many settings, you can adjust it on the DVD player. It makes a world of a difference.

Not to stray off topic too much but will HTPC have as good PQ as a Bravo D2? Will any $80 DVD burner display a good picture as long as you have a decent graphics card? There are so many cool things you can do with an HTPC and endless tweaking but if the display is not quite as good as a DVI stand alone DVD player then I will probably just get a D2.

Any AE700 owners happen to snag a Panasonic S97 dvd player? If so, then by all means, let us know how the pair work together :)

Also, if any AE700 owners are using an iScan HD, please let us know how its working with the AE700 :)

Any AE700 owners happen to snag a Panasonic S97 dvd player? If so, then by all means, let us know how the pair work together

Also, what about the new Sony DVPNS975V? Would love to know how this player and the Panny 700 work together. Both are compatible with the HDMI to HDMI cable. I am seriously considering buying this player and switching one HDMI cable back/forth with my new HD/Tivo Directv receiver and the Sony 975 dvd player. What do you think?

Sorry for taking this further OT, but couldn't you buy a switch or something to avoid needing to move the cable between players?

Originally posted by Jcam9
Not to stray off topic too much but will HTPC have as good PQ as a Bravo D2? Will any $80 DVD burner display a good picture as long as you have a decent graphics card? There are so many cool things you can do with an HTPC and endless tweaking but if the display is not quite as good as a DVI stand alone DVD player then I will probably just get a D2.

Never seen a side by side comparison but I suspect the best possible picture can be achieved with HTPC. It DOES take time & energy to set it all up though. You can use FFDShow which is totally free, to do your scaling and other tweaks (see HTPC discussion forum), and the latest video codecs from Nvidia (just came out less than 2 weeks ago) for the best possible picture you can squeeze out of a DVD today.

I don't think the actual drive you pick is very significant, all the drive does is spin the disk for reading. But I could be wrong. I rarely watch direct from DVD media, I store my movies on the hard drive (with no additional compression so its the same quality) and use MyHTPC software to organize and navigate the collection.

Once again I have an open invite to anyone in the Philly area to demonstrate not only the AE700, but the complete end-to-end home theater PC solution as well....

-Gordo

Again, Sony states the HS51 uses its own proprietary panels.

Originally posted by stevenl241
But for DVD's - should I rely on the deinterlacing and scaling in the AE700 and use a lower end dvd player (ie, < $150) and feed the projector 480i via component (edited typo orig said composite but meant component),

OR, would I get a better result spending more on the dvd player (ie, < $300) and feeding the projector 720p via DVI (HDMI adapter)?
Thanks!

480i through component is alright for this PJ. The internal deinterlacer/scaler works quite well as long as the original signal is fairly clean. If you could find a Denon 1600 or Panasonic RP82/RP91/XP30 on ebay, those would be good DVD sources at the under $300 range. I would advise checking the Hometheaterhifi site for reviews on any other DVD players to check for problems though.

In my case, I'm using a Denon 2910. Nice DVD player and connection is with a 20' HDMI-HDMI Monster Cable. with this setup, I do notice a difference between 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i. I'm currently using the 1080i output because the 480p output has the poorest detail and the 480p and 720p have Y/C delay problems after checking with Avia. 480i puts out a decent pic on the 700U and you would only notice the difference if you could A/B the 480i vs 1080i output.

PAP -
check out my review of the AE700U a few pages back. The review was done from 1x - 1.3x screen width.

And yes, I found the same VB problem mentioned by others when leaving the PJ on standby overnight. Quite annoying for probs like this really. Sometime this week when I have the time, I'll try several different measures in an effort to see if I can improve PQ, with different connecting cables, using constant voltage power conditioners, leaving the PJ on standby and tweaking flicker and then seeing if it drifts again from leaving it on standby etc.

So far, powering off the PJ and adjusting flicker again when I powered it on a day later reduced the VB close to the inital reduction. Like others though, I think it's rather a pain to have to shut off power to the PJ after every use. In my case, leaving the PJ on standby wasn't even intentional. After you use the remote to turn Power Off (which puts it in standby), the fan switches to high mode for a while to cool things down and during this time, the manual explicitly warns the user not to turn the mains Power Off as this will reduce the life of the PJ/bulb. I used the remote to power it off and then went about doing something else while waiting for the fan to turn off automatically, and then forgot that I hadn't turned the Mains Power Off. Next morning, VB galore.

If anyone is curious, for Halloween I followed the suggestion by Wonderment, and turned my garage into a giant RPTV using my AE700 and projecting it onto visquine that I used to cover the opening to both the 2-car garage and single car garage thus was able to create 171" and 110" 16x9 RPTVs, and even a 210" 2.35 RPTV with the 2-car garage.

Follow this link (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=465241) if you want to read all the details about the set-up and what we screened.

The brightness, zoom, and lens shift of the AE700 all played a huge roll in the implementation and success of the presentation. It was definitely the big hit in our neighborhood and after just the first hour we started to see cars driving into the Cul-de-sac to check it out.

Originally posted by PAP
I would -greatly- appreciate it if those of you lucky enough to have one of these projectors would sit up a chair at about 1.2-1.3 screen -widths- back and give me a report on image quality from standard DVD source.

My first row is 1.75 screen widths from 106" screen. With regular DVD I wouldn't want to be any closer. I actually prefer the 2nd row at 2.5. But everybody's different. I always sit in the back rows of a movie theatre too.

VB, WMV, and Seating

Yesterday I hooked up my HTPC to the 700 and downloaded some WMV 720p and 1080p clips from Microsoft's demo page. Since I had read on here that some people are seeing VB on underwater and fog scenes, I picked water and cloud clips. I used a $25 DVI-HDMI adapter and 6 ft DVI cable. The results? A picture that is in the words of my friends "awesome". I know people are seeing VB in certain setups, but there was no noticeable VB on mine. The picture was so good that I am going to order some of the WMV dvd's. It is beautiful thing, to say the least. I even froze the picture in a few areas that I thought VB should show up, and none of us could find any.

As for seating, I was a tad to close at 1.3x, so I moved back to 1.5x and I do not see any SDE from this distance. While it is not unbearable at 1.3x it is just not as smooth as it will be at 1.5x.

I also took Reaper's advice and kicked down to low lamp setting and watched "'Seabiscuit" last night. I have a light controlled area and I am projecting on a white wall until I decide which screen size to buy. The picture was more than bright enough. In fact when the blue screen of warnings on the dvd was displayed, it was extremely bright to the point that you didn't want to stare at it.

I am getting antsy for a screen now, just not sure which one to go with. That can wait, as the picture looks more than fine for now. Cable guy comes today, so I hope to report on how that looks tomorrow. Watching regular TV was a bit annoying after dvd's and WMV demos on the HTPC. You "could" watch it, but you see every defect in the low res source. On some channels the flesh tones fluctuated within a scene, other channels were a little better. All a factor of the source, not the projector.

As a side note, I have always completely powered down from the mains after each viewing. I have a surge protector that the projector is connected to, and I just flip the switch on when I pick up the remotes. I know this might not be possible for some, but it works for me. I do not believe it is any harder on the projector electronics than leaving it in standby mode. I think it would be worse to come home and find that the electric company had been powering up and down all day making repairs in the area. I do the same thing for my surround system.

bakpakva

What size screen/wall area were you viewing?

Originally posted by JimP
bakpakva

What size screen/wall area were you viewing?

I keep changing the screen size until I figure out what I am ultimately going to go with. Since the projector is 19 ft from the screen/wall, the smallest width I can go is about 82". The wall is 116 " wide, and I have dark burgundy drapes on each side that I can move in or out. I think I am somewhere around 96" at the last viewing on low power and it was more than enough light. I am in a light controlled room, with no ambient lightning except for the blue lights on the sound system behind me. (i.e. it is very dark in there).

Lens shift adjustment:

My two cents on the lens shift adjustment knob, it is a bit sticky, but I don't consider it an "issue". I set the unit up on the shelf, aligned it as best as I could with the lens shift knob in the center. It is rather jerky, but it you loosen it up first and then lock it down, you are all set. Not sure why you would ever have to move it again. The focus and zoom on this lens is as smooth as silk, and the oversized lens makes it a snap to adjust if you so desire. I have noticed a tendency to make the screen larger than I should just because the picture is so very nice.

Originally posted by KongFan
Perhaps someone has PM'd you by now, but, yes, you did miss our only knock-down-drag-out. We have certain very valuable members who are wonderful sources of experience & information, but should, perhaps, switch to decaffeinated. Just be very, very careful how you word your questions, & you'll be OK.

I too have had at least one merchant make it sound like they're allergic to returns other than outright DOA's. Perhaps if pressed, however, they'd have to follow a particular manufacturer's policies. It would be nice to be sure of this, though, before placing an order.

KongFan

Decaffeinated it is ... ;)
I can't believe my entire post was just deleted because I was trying to upload an invalid file type!
Anyway, in an effort to not have to retype it all ... here are the bullet points.
1. No dealer likes doing a DOA ... it costs the dealer money off their margin.
2. This DOA policy is Panasonic's, not the dealers. It is something you are entitled to whether the dealer likes it or not.
3. If you don't feel comfortable, ask the dealer first how they will handle a DOA.
4. If anyone still doesn't feel comfortable with this ... send me a PM. I always answer those with every bit of info you need and always with a smile. Please don't reply to my posts here with "your lying/wrong" or "are you REALLY REALLY REALLY sure?". My posts can sometimes not be clear because I have to leave info out of a post because I don't like telling people where to buy.
5. If you need the REAL Panasonic RMA request form to give to your dealer ... or just to look at it ... send me a PM with your email and I will send it to you. Where it is .XLS, I cannot post it here but I will post a screen capture of what it looks like below.
6. Attached is a Panasonic RMA that I personally submitted for a DOA PT-L300U with dead pixels. I truly hope this helps put everyones mind at ease over the subject ... :)
Following ... you will see the approved RMA to send the projector back to Panasonic for credit.

And again, customer sends DOA projector to dealer, dealer sends customer new projector, dealer sends DOA projector back to Panasonic for credit. This is how it is done. The only legitimate reason why it couldn't be done this way is if your dealer flat-out tells you before the purchase that they do not follow Panasonic's DOA program and/or if they are not an authorized Panasonic dealer.
Send me a PM if you need anymore details ...

And the cover page from the approved RMA to send the projector back to Panasonic.
Again, names changed/editted to protect the innocent.

And finally, the actuall RMA approval (or PSG as they call it) to send the DOA projector back to Panasonic for credit.
Again, the projector is only being sent back for dead pixels.

I hope this puts everyones mind to rest. ;)

Regarding DVI to HDMI cables.

If I recall correctly, the maximum length for DVI was much less than for HDMI.

Since my DVD player and satellite receiver (the output devices) both output DVI, could I go 30 ft to the 700 without signal degradation? For some reason, I'm thinking the the maximum for DVI was only something like 15 or 20 ft. It could be if your transmitting HDMI going to a DVI device(going the other direction), you can go much further, but that's not the case here.

Any suggestions?

It all depends on the cable you are using. Most cables are copper inside. Copper in a dvi cable should only go 15'. If you have a good DVI cable with silver inside you can go up to 50'. The only problem is, is the price. I run a 25' DVI cable with one of my units and there is no loss at all. That is because it is a silver cable.

seenalot

Glad I asked.

Which silver cable are you using? Is it DVI to HDMI?

HMenke,

Good info about about the possible cause of vertical banding. Someone should look for that thread by the guy who talked about the need to constantly reverse the polarity of the voltage applied to the lcd panel pixels, I'm sure thats got something to do with it also. I think I'll try to dig that up.

Needless to say, its important to get a handle on how the vertical banding is on these AE700 units, and how it compare in frequency and severity, and on how many units on average, particularly in comparison to the 500.

Also, please keep the feedback coming regarding "peak-a-boo scanlines", the vertical motion artifact. Try to refer to it before and after flicker tweaking, and correlate it to vertical banding. Keep the feedback coming folks, its pretty interesting.

Anyways...so no Canucks have acquired this puppy yet? If I get rolling again soon I may have to be the Canadian who grabs one.

JimP,

I have a couple of different units. One I use DVI to DVI and one I use DVI to HDMI. I haven't used HDMI to HDMI, but I will soon when a new DVD player comes out that has HDMI out. There are others that have it, but they are not the ones I want.

seenalot

So where did you get the silver DVI to HDMI? It is 25', right?

Just got off the phone with VA. They are shipping today. They will be shipping this week to all those who preordered and go by the date you ordered. I waited for a while before I ordered so my PJ won't be shipped until Tuesday or Weds night. I'm 2/3 down the list of preorders but they wouldn't tell me what number I am. Depending upon your location and shipping method, expect your PJ later this week or early next week. Given my location, I expect to see mine next week.

Look at the bright side ... you'll probably get your AE700 well before anyone get's their HS51.

Has anyone worked out which color correcting filter/s would be appropriate for this projector? From the Cine4Home site, contrast ratio after calibration came out at just over 1000:1, however, this increased to 2050:1 using the "Video" mode and re-calibration with a color correcting filter. Cine4Home carried out extensive tests to determine the correct filter and since they offer a calibration service did not say what filter they used! Fair enough.

I understand PJ's will vary and therefore individual PJ's will likely need different spec filters to maximise contrast ratio post re-calibration but if I can bring the contrast ratio up to 1500:1 or so with a CC30-40? It would be worth the effort.

Are my thoughts on track here?

Originally posted by Ericbres
here are the bullet points.


(re: returns, dead pixels, etc.)

Great info. I think that WILL put some mind at ease. Thank you sir!

KongFan

Originally posted by KongFan
(re: returns, dead pixels, etc.)

Great info. I think that WILL put some mind at ease. Thank you sir!

KongFan

Has anyone seen a unit with dead pixels? I froze a white image to see if I could find any, but so far none have been found. It is a lot of pixels to check and I still have some movies to watch. Anyone know a quicker way?

I thought I found one the first night, but alas, it was a black speck on the wall. What a relief that was!

bakpakva

You'll find the dead/stuck pixels fastest using the Service Menu. You'll find screens in there for each panel, red, blue and green I believe, and a white screen. White screen is usually all it takes. I'm just going by how the AE100/200 works.

I'd like to hear from people who achieve results like Cine4home has. That would be interesting to see how much better it looks when you max out the calibration and get upwards of 2000:1 contrast. Most people are probably not getting quite that high.

Originally posted by bakpakva
Has anyone seen a unit with dead pixels? I froze a white image to see if I could find any, but so far none have been found. It is a lot of pixels to check and I still have some movies to watch. Anyone know a quicker way?

I thought I found one the first night, but alas, it was a black speck on the wall. What a relief that was!

Menu --> Options --> OSD (hold for 4 seconds) --> Ext. Menu --> Service Menu. Then use L/R arrow on the remote to scroll through each LCD panel individually. Dead pixels show as black on the respective color panels. If you find any and want to see how they'll look in a blended color, scroll to the gray panel.

As others have stated, a few may not be visible under normal viewing conditions.

EDIT: Sorry, cpc already answered your question.

Originally posted by Birchwood
Has anyone worked out which color correcting filter/s would be appropriate for this projector? From the Cine4Home site, contrast ratio after calibration came out at just over 1000:1, however, this increased to 2050:1 using the "Video" mode and re-calibration with a color correcting filter. Cine4Home carried out extensive tests to determine the correct filter and since they offer a calibration service did not say what filter they used! Fair enough.

I understand PJ's will vary and therefore individual PJ's will likely need different spec filters to maximise contrast ratio post re-calibration but if I can bring the contrast ratio up to 1500:1 or so with a CC30-40? It would be worth the effort.

Are my thoughts on track here?

Scan this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=458447&perpage=20&pagenumber=1) wherein you will find this link (http://www.matuschek.net/projektor-tuning/ptae700.html). Translation tools will be required for the second link. Not direct answers but the filter info could be useful.

ted

Ted, stop it. We are trying to set a record for the number of times the same question can be asked post-answer. :D

Originally posted by TheFerret
Ted, stop it. We are trying to set a record for the number of times the same question can be asked post-answer. :D

Reaching for the top posting stats. Not sure if it was fair of you to combine your nom de plumes.;)

ted

Originally posted by bubbawilly
Menu --> Options --> OSD (hold for 4 seconds) --> Ext. Menu --> Service Menu. Then use L/R arrow on the remote to scroll through each LCD panel individually. Dead pixels show as black on the respective color panels. If you find any and want to see how they'll look in a blended color, scroll to the gray panel.

As others have stated, a few may not be visible under normal viewing conditions.

EDIT: Sorry, cpc already answered your question.

Thanks guys! I will have a look at the service menu next time I am alone. So far I have only been firing up the beast to play movies and demo clips and the audience gets antsy if I start tinkering too much.

Originally posted by cpc
HMenke,
Needless to say, its important to get a handle on how the vertical banding is on these AE700 units, and how it compare in frequency and severity, and on how many units on average, particularly in comparison to the 500.


I've found that the VB on the new 700 is almost identical to the VB on my 500. It appears in the same scenes and has the exact same look and severity. No better - no worse. I read a post recently where someone has seen VB on the yet-to-be-released Sony HS-51. Now that's an eye-opener.

Has anyone that is seeing VB tried shorter cable lengths or different dvd players? I am using a 4 ft component and a 6 ft dvi with HDMI converter. I haven't tried s-video yet, but it looks like I will have to tonight when I hook up the cable box. I haven't decided yet whether it is better to use the component input for the cable box or for the dvd player. The other one will have to get s-video. Such is life....

Perhaps the fact that I am using a painted wall for a screen is hiding the VB? Is it possible that a high contrast screen would show VB more readily?

Well after playing with a projector from Sony(HS20), I was really happy I had the L500U. DHL says my AE700 will be here today. I can not see how I would ever go to the HS51. Iwould rather have a brighter punchier picture than it's lower lumens. I feel Panasonic has really edged out Sony on this one. The contrast maybe 6000:1, but can a normal viewer tell the diffference, or would he/she be more liking the higher brightness. I ,for one,was really impressed with the 500; I am sure the 700 will not disappoint.

zxlr8

As it was written in a review that I recentl read about the HS51, the contrast numbers are based on full on/full off, and that is not how we view content. lol

bubbawilly,

Actually you explained it more thoroughly :)

This is probably how it was tested with the 700. Am I wrong?

I just find it a little disturbing how many people think the Hs51 is worth the difference. Does Sony really have that much power(brand loyalty)? The sony products i have used were good, but they were not any better than other brand names from Japan. Japanese products are pretty good no matter what brand. My wife just called and let me know that the AE700 made it. I am pretty excited.

Weeks and weeks of waiting for my 700 and I miss the Ups man by 10min. I'll never be able to sleep tonight knowing I could be up all night checking out the new pj. This will teach me to go to work on Mondays.:)

Go to UPS and pick it up tonight! :)

There's over 100 hours on my ae700 now - HD movies on cable, some DVD's, and the rest PS2 and xbox games. I frequently toggle between video, natural, and normal, depending on which source. I have not developed a match yet.

VB is certainly there for the first 30 minutes after turn-on, but it disappears after it's warmed up. I have not touched the flicker tweak... yet. (And I don't unplug it - I use the remote to turn it off.)

It's roughly a 130" image on a white wall, well I painted the wall 2 days ago - 3:1 silverscreen:WOP. The contrast improved with the painting, but at the tradeoff of making the whole thing slightly dimmer. Colors are now more vibrant and warmer vs. the plain white wall.

I use it entirely in low lamp mode, but last night kicked it to high as it appeared to make the image a notch brighter. I hope to toggle it back to low, with intentions of extending the bulb life.

The WOW factor is still there. I'm amazed every time I turn it on.

...had a preorder with an AVS sponsor but called today after I heard the shipment was in but still did not get much satisfaction as to when they would be shipping my AE700 so I jumped ship to another AVS sponsor and will have the empty space on my shelf filled this Wednesday.

Thanks for everyone's questions, responses, experiences, etc. I'll look forward to reading about all the tweaks and fixes you guys come up with to get the best possible performance out of this unit.

Bob

Originally posted by zxlr8
I just find it a little disturbing how many people think the Hs51 is worth the difference. Does Sony really have that much power(brand loyalty)? The sony products i have used were good, but they were not any better than other brand names from Japan. Japanese products are pretty good no matter what brand. My wife just called and let me know that the AE700 made it. I am pretty excited.

I think it comes down to what you "think" is worth your hard earned money. For instance, if Brand A and Brand B has the same/similiar performance level, but you trust Brand B a lot more, you'd tend to pay that extra cash for it. Just like in the auto industry. Why do people pay extra for imports? Compare a 2004 Malibu vs 2004 Camary. Feature/Performance is pretty much the same but the Toyota costs a bit more. Yet Toyota is #2 most successful auto maker in the world.

I don't know why it's no clear to some that the Sony is worth the difference. That said, you don't have to pay the difference and the Panasonic is also a worthy selection.

Price / performance is in the eye of the beholder. Some of us have $300 amplifiers, others $3000 and there is surely not a 10x performance difference. Yet the price difference is "worth it" to those who choose to pay.

The Sony is around 50% more expensive than the Panasonic and appears to offer a multiple better in sequential contrast ratio, less vertical banding and other things some people value for the price.

Mark

Ive had all the AE series of projectors.In all honesty the corresponding Sony projectors were better but not worth the extra cash to me.This time around ,
i think its touch and go.Ive bought the AE700 and its better then i expected but if the Sony is churning out 5000:1 contrast ratios, it becomes a pretty good bargaian at the price its reputed to be.And if they were both available when i bought my AE700 i probably would have gone for it.
On a side note.Turning off the main power switch has totally removed any hint of VB and FPN on my AE700.Im so happy about this,as VB was my biggest gripe with the AE500.
For a lot of people,buying the AE700 this year and saving the extra cash for an upgrade to a D5 powered PAnasonic projector next year is a pretty smart move.
Thats how i justified buying the AE700 over waiting for the HS51.

Originally posted by rogo
I don't know why it's no clear to some that the Sony is worth the difference. That said, you don't have to pay the difference and the Panasonic is also a worthy selection.

Price / performance is in the eye of the beholder. Some of us have $300 amplifiers, others $3000 and there is surely not a 10x performance difference. Yet the price difference is "worth it" to those who choose to pay.

The Sony is around 50% more expensive than the Panasonic and appears to offer a multiple better in sequential contrast ratio, less vertical banding and other things some people value for the price.

Mark

With the one exception of smooth screen on the Panny. if the SDE was the same on both, the choice would be easier.

I have a question about contrast ratios and LCD projectors. The main reason for poor contrast has been light leakage through the panel when it is supposed to be dark. Dynamic iris has helped this problem a lot by reducing the amount of light in dark scenes.

But, even given dynamic iris, at some point we are stuck with a base "black level" that we can't go below. Therefore any further increase in contrast ratio comes with an increase in peak level, not a further reduction in black level.

I am not sure I really want (or need) a brighter picture than what I am currently getting out of the AE700 in Cinema1 mode + Low lamp. What I would want (if anything) is a darker black. So with respect to the Sony HS51, is the superior contrast supposedly the result of darker blacks, whiter whites, or both?

Can anyone give me some advice on which colour screen goo would be the best for this projector. The choices are crt white, light grey and grey. My screen size is around 3.5 - 4 m in width and the room has a little ambient light but is fairly dark. I am planning on painting straight onto gyprock wall.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Originally posted by aias10

Ive had all the AE series of projectors.In all honesty the corresponding On a side note.Turning off the main power switch has totally removed any hint of VB and FPN on my AE700.Im so happy about this,as VB was my biggest gripe with the AE500.
For a lot of people,buying the AE700 this year and saving the extra cash for an upgrade to a D5 powered PAnasonic projector next year is a pretty smart move.
Thats how i justified buying the AE700 over waiting for the HS51.

Perhaps you are onto something here with the VB. I have been turning mine off at a switch every time, and I have yet to see VB or FPN. Granted, you shouldn't have to do this, but if this is all it takes, I can live with it. Not as easy for others with different configurations. I am sure they will figure it out and fix it at some later date. By then I will be ready to buy my first replacement bulb. ;-)

FYI: I got "the call" from VA today ... so should be watching things in HD this weekend! Wheeee!

Comcast hooked up the HD-DVR today, and the picture was less than I expected. I don't blame the projector, as I have seen some very nice clips played on it. It is just crap cable. Heck, even some of the "HD" channels are not widescreen. "Just push the zoom key", he says, "and it makes it wide screen". Yeah, right! I probably shouldn't waste a good set of component connections on this box, and just use s-video. Maybe it gets better at night? Any HD weekend for me will be with the two WMVHD disks I bought today. At least the demo clips look superb on 700.

Edit: Not sure what happened, but my cable box rebooted, and the picture is vastly improved. Very similar to dvd quality now on the HD channels. I take back most of what I said about Comcast. ;-) Now if they would only get the dvi output working, but that is another forum...

I got the call from VA today. It shipped. Finally the wait is over and in my opinion definitely worth saving some bucks for too.

On their site, they have a selector type of program where you input your variables... and it basically tells you what to get. Did you try that first?

Originally posted by boomd
Can anyone give me some advice on which colour screen goo would be the best for this projector. The choices are crt white, light grey and grey. My screen size is around 3.5 - 4 m in width and the room has a little ambient light but is fairly dark. I am planning on painting straight onto gyprock wall.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Originally posted by bakpakva
Comcast hooked up the HD-DVR today, and the picture was less than I expected. I don't blame the projector, as I have seen some very nice clips played on it. It is just crap cable. Heck, even some of the "HD" channels are not widescreen. "Just push the zoom key", he says, "and it makes it wide screen". Yeah, right! I probably shouldn't waste a good set of component connections on this box, and just use s-video. Maybe it gets better at night? Any HD weekend for me will be with the two WMVHD disks I bought today. At least the demo clips look superb on 700.

Can you go DVI out of the HD-DVR cable box instead of component?

Originally posted by Milehigh
On their site, they have a selector type of program where you input your variables... and it basically tells you what to get. Did you try that first?


I have had a look at that, the suggested colour is crt white - what I am worried about is that my contrast will suffer. I was really just looking for some peoples opinions - what works best a light grey or crt white.

Does anyone know what is the digital level for black on the AE700's HDMI input? Apparently there is a PC standard of digital 0 for black and a video standard of digital 16 for black. The PC stanfdard does not allow for "blacker than black" signals because nothing can be less than 0, whereas in the video standard you can have blacker than black signals from 0-15.

The upshot is that if a projector expects the PC standard of 0 for black and is fed a video standard of 16 for black, then the blacks will be a washed-out dark grey.

This is an important issue for selecting a compatible upconverting DVI or HDMI DVD player.

i was wondering with this projector connected to an oar hdtv box via hdmi....if there is a lot of noise in the picture any comments would be great

Originally posted by HMenke
I have a question about contrast ratios and LCD projectors. The main reason for poor contrast has been light leakage through the panel when it is supposed to be dark. Dynamic iris has helped this problem a lot by reducing the amount of light in dark scenes.

But, even given dynamic iris, at some point we are stuck with a base "black level" that we can't go below. Therefore any further increase in contrast ratio comes with an increase in peak level, not a further reduction in black level.

I am not sure I really want (or need) a brighter picture than what I am currently getting out of the AE700 in Cinema1 mode + Low lamp. What I would want (if anything) is a darker black. So with respect to the Sony HS51, is the superior contrast supposedly the result of darker blacks, whiter whites, or both?

Well - I run my 700 on "low lamp" mode and on "desk." Of course the Dynamic Iris is "on." Noise reduction "off." I'm using a little bit of the lens shift (very handy!) and am zoomed out about 95% of max (20' from 104" unity gain 1.0 screen). I use "Normal" mode (don't care for cinema 1) with brightness and contrast at factory "0" I have pretty darn "black" blacks. In fact blacks are as black as my "black" cloth screen wall. Much blacker than I expected - in all but the most demanding scenes (Castaway plane crash). I have color at - 8 and sharpness all the way down to - 6. I have color temp at "0" - and for Black and White films at - 1. Anyone else using similar settings???

I got the VA call as well, should be here in a couple days. Btw, I pre-ordered September 17th. With the money I saved, I figured I throw in a extended service plan. The screen arrived today too.

Need a new DVD player to match with this. Have no idea what to choose. Any recommendations? I would spend up to $1000.

For those that have them, how is the panel alignment looking on these units?

Originally posted by AugDog

For those that have them, how is the panel alignment looking on these units?

Panel alignment is a bit off (compared to my 500). But certainly not noticable from seated positions.

AugDog, I did the same thing ... the saved money I put into the ESP too.

Originally posted by HMenke
Can you go DVI out of the HD-DVR cable box instead of component?

They don't have DVI working yet on this box. :-(

If the hs51 was at the same price as the ae700, who would still pick the panny because of stuff like smooth screen?

Originally posted by ay221
If the hs51 was at the same price as the ae700, who would still pick the panny because of stuff like smooth screen?

From what I've read so far (which is admitedly limited) I would still pick the panny over the hs51 even if they were the same price. Mostly because of the superior throw flexibility, brightness, and yes, the lack of screen door on the panny. That said, I haven't seen the hs51, maybe its contrast and lack of VB would give it the edge.

I would still buy the 700. Throw, smoothscreen and lumens.

Originally posted by AugDog
I would still buy the 700. Throw, smoothscreen and lumens.

I will drink to that! I would have to ceiling mount the Sony ($$) and would probably still be trying to get it aligned correctly. The 700 is bright enough to watch on low lamp, so that will save bulb life as well ($$).

Originally posted by HMenke
Does anyone know what is the digital level for black on the AE700's HDMI input? Apparently there is a PC standard of digital 0 for black and a video standard of digital 16 for black. The PC stanfdard does not allow for "blacker than black" signals because nothing can be less than 0, whereas in the video standard you can have blacker than black signals from 0-15.

The upshot is that if a projector expects the PC standard of 0 for black and is fed a video standard of 16 for black, then the blacks will be a washed-out dark grey.

This is an important issue for selecting a compatible upconverting DVI or HDMI DVD player.

I believe that HDMI 'expects' the video standard, where DVI can be selectable.

Check this out before you get a DVI player to feed a HDMI display:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-dvi-hdmi-hdcp-connections-11-2004.html

That's interesting, it suggested greys for me, no white at all... I ended up going cheap and starting with the Silverscreen paint to start. Depending how that goes, I might order some Screen Goo...

Originally posted by boomd
I have had a look at that, the suggested colour is crt white - what I am worried about is that my contrast will suffer. I was really just looking for some peoples opinions - what works best a light grey or crt white.

All,
I put up my 700 tonight and was impressed with the ease of set up for a first time PJ owner. Video over component was mediocre, but I expected that. What I didn't expect was having horizontal line garbage when I changed to the HDMI input from my HTPC. I'm running it through a MyHD 120 HD card with the DVI daughter card between the ATI 9600 and the PJ. Plus, my main monitor would go into power-save mode every time the cable was connected to the PJ, so I wasn't able to log in or invoke the secondary monitor from the graphics driver.
Here's the setup graphically:
Primary - analog monitor
Secondary - DVI out to MyHD DVI daughter card to HDMI input on the 700.

Does anyone have any suggestions on getting a picture on the 700 and my monitor at the same time? Graphics drivers are up to date, but haven't updated to the beta MyHD software. Is Powerstrip in my future?

Thanks all,

VA called this afternoon... Mine will be here Friday ! Whoop !

-- Lee

pkiehne

Sounds like the card detects a DVI connected device and switches to it as the primary input.

I'm not a HTCP person, but I do run dual monitors off of my computer. In a similar setup on my computer, I have to go into the properties and adjust each monitor seperately.

Originally posted by ay221
With the one exception of smooth screen on the Panny. if the SDE was the same on both, the choice would be easier.

Agreed, there is a clear advantage to the cheaper Panasonic. I was merely pointing out there are clear advantages to the pricier Sony. And people who choose the Sony are not irrational Sony suckups like has been implied.

Originally posted by pkiehne
All,
I put up my 700 tonight and was impressed with the ease of set up for a first time PJ owner. Video over component was mediocre, but I expected that. What I didn't expect was having horizontal line garbage when I changed to the HDMI input from my HTPC. I'm running it through a MyHD 120 HD card with the DVI daughter card between the ATI 9600 and the PJ. Plus, my main monitor would go into power-save mode every time the cable was connected to the PJ, so I wasn't able to log in or invoke the secondary monitor from the graphics driver.
Here's the setup graphically:
Primary - analog monitor
Secondary - DVI out to MyHD DVI daughter card to HDMI input on the 700.

Does anyone have any suggestions on getting a picture on the 700 and my monitor at the same time? Graphics drivers are up to date, but haven't updated to the beta MyHD software. Is Powerstrip in my future?

Thanks all,

Set up your monitors to "clone" each other before hooking it up. That should do the trick. You don't want to span your desktop or stretch, you want clone.

I asked earlier in this thread, and there wasn't a response, but for those that have their projector already... what is the minimum shelf size you'd make for the 700U? I need to consider how far the cables would stick out the back as well, since I will shelf mount it in the rear of my theater... thanks :)

I know they won't be available for a while, but for those of us considering upgrading to the 700 or holding out until the next generation, does anyone know what the anticipated benefits of the upcoming D5 LCD panels are supposed to be?

Thanks.

-tony

Originally posted by bubbawilly
I believe that HDMI 'expects' the video standard, where DVI can be selectable.

Check this out before you get a DVI player to feed a HDMI display:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-dvi-hdmi-hdcp-connections-11-2004.html

Thanks, bubbawilly. It looks like there is no problem going HDMI-to-HDMI and DVI-to-HDMI. HDMI-to-DVI could be a problem but it's nothing to worry about for AE700 owners since this PJ has HDMI.

I find it funny that people would still choose the Panny when most in this thread haven't even seen the new Sony. Ahh, the politics of projectors and the self-justification of one's purchase already at hand. :D

Originally posted by John Ballentine
Well - I run my 700 on "low lamp" mode and on "desk." Of course the Dynamic Iris is "on." Noise reduction "off." I'm using a little bit of the lens shift (very handy!) and am zoomed out about 95% of max (20' from 104" unity gain 1.0 screen). I use "Normal" mode (don't care for cinema 1) with brightness and contrast at factory "0" I have pretty darn "black" blacks. In fact blacks are as black as my "black" cloth screen wall. Much blacker than I expected - in all but the most demanding scenes (Castaway plane crash). I have color at - 8 and sharpness all the way down to - 6. I have color temp at "0" - and for Black and White films at - 1. Anyone else using similar settings???

I am going to try your settings and see what I think. I ran color setup on VE (DVE on order) for Cinema1 but I have not done it with other modes such as Normal and Natural (as far as factory modes I think I like Natural as a second choice over Cinema1). It is really awesome that you can save user settings for each picture mode. I haven't checked if you can also save user settings for each picture mode for each input.

Last night on The Bourne Identity (which is a torture test due to high contrast backlighting vs dark foreground in many scenes) I noticed some ghosting on the left side of dark objects on the right side of light backgrounds on the left. I turned the Sharpness down all the way to -6 and it helped a lot but did not eliminate it completely. I think it could be my long component run (25 ft) that is giving rise to the ghosting in the first place, any thoughts?

I also turned NR off and I noticed an improvement in facial detail on closeups without a corresponding increase in background noise or increase/decrease in the ghosting.

Originally posted by HMenke
Thanks, bubbawilly. It looks like there is no problem going HDMI-to-HDMI and DVI-to-HDMI. HDMI-to-DVI could be a problem but it's nothing to worry about for AE700 owners since this PJ has HDMI.

I have been using a DVI to HDMI adapter and DVI cable with my HTPC without any issues. The only thing I don't like is this big 3 " adapter out the back of the projector. I think I might put something between the adapter and the shelf to take some of the weight off the connector. I would hate to accidentally pull down on the cable and break something. If I didn't already own a DVI cable I probably would buy a DVI-HDMI cable. For those thinking about shelf mounting, you may want to keep this in mind.

I bought an HDMI-to-HDMI cable and a DVI-to-HDMI adapter for the source end in anticipation of a Motorola HD cable box with DVI out. When I get an upconverting DVD player it will have an HDMI output.

Has anyone speculated as to whether this is a thermal problem - i.e. chip ambiance maintained by standby mode or is it a capacitance issue whereby bleed resistors would be useful.

As far as earlier comments re the voltage bias resistors - are these semiconductor or discrete parts. If discrete are they 1% or better parts.
Are parts surface mounted/wave-soldered?

Is this box worth hacking?

Sorry the old electronics autodidact possessed my soul for a moment.:)

The capacitance vs. thermal is a real question though.

ted

Originally posted by HMenke
I am not sure I really want (or need) a brighter picture than what I am currently getting out of the AE700 in Cinema1 mode + Low lamp. What I would want (if anything) is a darker black.

Have you considered the use of filters - ND or CC which have been mentioned quite often throughout various threads on these forums?

As for the Sony - since it has been speculated to have lower lumens, it would have to be lower blacks - probably a more aggressive use of the iris as some have speculated.

ted

Originally posted by tbacos
I know they won't be available for a while, but for those of us considering upgrading to the 700 or holding out until the next generation, does anyone know what the anticipated benefits of the upcoming D5 LCD panels are supposed to be?

Thanks.

-tony

Search is your buddy.

Some threads:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=433815&highlight=d5
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=452462&highlight=d5
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=459662&highlight=d5
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=462656&highlight=d5

ted

Originally posted by TheFerret
I find it funny that people would still choose the Panny when most in this thread haven't even seen the new Sony. Ahh, the politics of projectors and the self-justification of one's purchase already at hand. :D

Why should normal reality have anything to do with our decisions?
Don't we spend hours getting the sound and picture just so - debating the minutiae of each tweak?
Dont' you have 10,000 + postings in your various guises when you, like me, work for a living?


:D :D
ted

Originally posted by TheFerret
I find it funny that people would still choose the Panny when most in this thread haven't even seen the new Sony. Ahh, the politics of projectors and the self-justification of one's purchase already at hand. :D

I find it funny to compare happy owners against vaporware. The Sony ain't on the market, ain't final and ain't viewed by the general public in their homes of yet.

You can't say you're better just by bashing the status quo.

Signed,
Happy Panny Owner,
aka, the anti-weasel
:p

tvted, romanesq, both of you missed my point. Someone offered something in which both were available, yet how can one make a decision without seeing both? Not bashing your purchase decisions, but rather the response to the question posed.

If both projectors were offered to you for, say, $2K, which one would you take. Well, most seem to take the Panasonic, but most haven't seen the Sony so how can they judge one product over the next without seeing both?

I wanted to once again chime in about the lack of VB on my unit, because I think there is alot of scaring going on here. I understand there is a tendency to talk about problems but shut up and enjoy when you are happy, but i thought I should break that pattern a little for those that are thinking about this pj but getting worried.

Firstly, I AM a first time projector owner, however this weekend I took the pj over to the home of a very seasoned pj owner and some other HT veterans were there as well. Further, I am not a novice in adjusting AV devices in general (I've owned a sound pressure gauge for years). VB can be made visible by mucking with the flicker tweak on my unit, so its easy to see the "pattern" we're looking for. I've noticed others using very different settings than mine, I have all panels on 2B setting, I think the average of other posters is around 23. I'm not suggesting that everyone should switch to my settings, just suggesting that there IS a unit to unit difference in this regard. Like others I have observed that the green cannot be made to completely stop flickering, but is closest at 2B.

It took me several different adjustments over a couple days before I stayed happy with the adjustment, so I'm wondering if there is a break-in period before things settle out -- new automobiles (and many other things) are known to have such a condition. I was one of the early ones to take delivery, so I'm hoping that more of you will ultimitely be able to eliminate or reduce to irrelevance the VB effect.

By the way I am NOT unplugging my unit every night, I have left in on stand-by almost non-stop since taking delivery on 10/15. If anything I would wonder if unplugging might make that theorized "burn-in" period take longer -- it shouldn't affect the panels if they aren't powered, but it might (and this part is REALLY guessing) affect some other components that are under constant voltage.

**Edit** I think an even more applicable example of a burn-in requirement would be where I got the term "burn-in" in the first place -- old CRT monitors (hhmm do new ones need this too? dunno).

Originally posted by TheFerret
tvted, romanesq, both of you missed my point. Someone offered something in which both were available,

Must be some other tvted you are talking about, if my message was worth reading again (which it isn't) you might notice that in my ironic questions I agreed with you. Didn'tcha notice the big smiley things?

Sniff - and here I was thinking you understood me. Sniff again.

ted

jasallen, glad to hear that you are not seeing VB and you are leaving the unit in standby. I have turned mine off at the mains each night, and have not seen any obvious VB. I have also read on here that others have noticed it after leaving it in standby, but it went away once they left it unplugged. Something is definitely going on, but your guess is as good as mine as to what that might be. I will probably forget to shut the power off some night, and I will know the next time I watch it. Hopefully my experiences will be like yours. Thanks for sharing your flicker settings, I will have a look at mine tonight when I get home to see if they are in the same ballpark.

Originally posted by tvted
Have you considered the use of filters - ND or CC which have been mentioned quite often throughout various threads on these forums?

As for the Sony - since it has been speculated to have lower lumens, it would have to be lower blacks - probably a more aggressive use of the iris as some have speculated.

ted

Haven't tried any filters...that's a tweak that's down the road since I don't know anything about the technique. I do use Low Lamp mode so that does cut the lumens and help get better blacks. Really the blacks are quite good but there is always room for improvement.

Originally posted by bubbawilly:
I believe that HDMI 'expects' the video standard, where DVI can be selectable.

Check this out before you get a DVI player to feed a HDMI display:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volu...ns-11-2004.html


After reading the info in the above link, I think I now understand why I can't get a picture on my AE300 from the DVI out on my Dish 811 HD receiver. " Both major satellite manufactures (Dish and DirectTV) are now using HDCP in the DVI connections with satellite boxes." I know it works on the AE700. My AE300 is NOT HDCP compliant and won't accept an HDCP signal. Some have said that the display device does not care what it is fed and doesn't need to be HDCP compliant. This seems to contradictary. What is the TRUTH. (yes I can handle it).

Originally posted by Milehigh
I asked earlier in this thread, and there wasn't a response, but for those that have their projector already... what is the minimum shelf size you'd make for the 700U? I need to consider how far the cables would stick out the back as well, since I will shelf mount it in the rear of my theater... thanks :)

Milehigh, my shelf is 13" deep x 24" wide. I left 1/2" between the shelf and the wall to allow the power cord to drop down the wall, so the total depth from wall to front edge is 13-1/2". The projector end of the cord is small enough to slip through 1/2" from below. I cut the outside corners off at a 45-degree angle so I wouldn't run into them with my shoulders. Then I used a chamfering router bit to put a small detail on the top edge.

If I did it again I would probably go one more inch deep. The bend in my HDMI cable is a little tighter than I would have liked.

I made the shelf 24" wide and offset the PJ to the left side. This leaves me a nice extra surface on the right to hold the lens cap, the instruction manual, and my lens cleaning kit.

Screen shots don't show you much about the actual PQ in person - especially at 640x480 - but for those waiting for your PJs to arrive, here are a couple pics to whet your appetite.

and another

Ted, sorry. Re-read your reply. Doh! Must be the election day brain damage.

Originally posted by HMenke
This leaves me a nice extra surface on the right to hold the lens cap, the instruction manual, and my lens cleaning kit.

Your shelf looks great, I saw those mounting brackets at Home Depot, almost bought them myself...

Something not mentioned in this rediculously long thread -- what is the prefered way to clean the lens? I tried to use a "Micro-Clair" lens cleaning cloth, and it did a terrible job. What solutions are safe to use?

TheFerret,

The Sony isn't going for $2K. I believe the Sony will be 25% to 50% higher cost than the Panny, so thats my guess for why people are going with the Panny.

TraderGordo,

On my Panny L200 I use a lens cleaning brush for starters and haven't used a cloth yet. I haven't found the need. Now I have a Hoya FLD on there so thats what gets cleaned.

Originally posted by cpc
TheFerret,

The Sony isn't going for $2K. I believe the Sony will be 25% to 50% higher cost than the Panny, so thats my guess for why people are going with the Panny.

TraderGordo,

I use a lens cleaning brush for starters.
Yes, I know this, cpc, but the question was IF they were going for the same amount yadda, yadda, yadda. No one was talking about reality, because the Sony isn't even out yet. You could at the posed question the other way ... what IF both were going for $2700?

...ok, I guess I'm reading these posts and not on your wavelength. People are buying the projectors in reality, not in fantasy land :p

It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to wait to see what the Sony is like though. It really is too bad that its more expensive. Is there a comprehensive shootout between the Sony HS51 and Panny AE700? Will there be one soon?

CPC, I didn't know you couldn't answer hypothetical questions. :) But my point was simply how people, given a potential option of a no-cost difference, which would they chose, and the fact that several people responded without ever seeing the Sony.

I do not believe that anyone has seen a production unit. Maybe WSR got a hold of a production unit, before Sony decided to wait a little longer for an unknown reason. But, AFAIK, no inventory has been shipped to any resellers, and certainly to no end users.

I have seen the AE700 and hope to see it again (Navin's?), but I do not know of any Panasonic dealers with a demo unit in Atlanta for me to go look at. I think I know of a couple of Sony dealers (those asking list price, LOL), but they do not have demo units and their Sony rep hasn't been able to give them a date for receiving a production unit for demo.

Not knocking the Panasonic at all. Just found those responses bewildering.

Ok, I’ve got the 700 and I’ve tested it out. I am coming from a Sanyo PLV-60 (13HD) and I have also tested the Yamaha LPX-510 (Epson-500).

Stats: 2:1 ratio, 53x106 Stewart Greyhawk screen with custom masking. I zoom off black bars for 2.35:1 movies, so at max setting my image is equal to 122”. We sit back 13 ¼ feet back, which is a ratio of 1.5x width for 2.35:1 movies.
I’m currently using a Panasonic RP-91 dvd over component to feed the 700.
I have the 700 located near the ceiling where it would be mounted on a little shelf. I’m using somewhere around 35-40% lens shift for all my viewing.

Observations:

1. Brightness: Totally bright enough! I use the low lamp setting. So far Cinema 2 or Natural for movies, but I’m still experimenting. As bright or brighter than the LPX-510 in it’s comparable mode, and since I got around 900 hours on the PLV-60 the 700 is brighter! No issues here, although Cinema 1 seemed too dim for me.

2. Fan Noise: In low lamp mode, totally good, comparable to the 510 in low mode and hugely quieter than the PLV-60! No reason not use this mode, so no issues here at all.

3. Contrast: Better than the LPX-510 and not even in the same universe as the PLV-60. Blacks are plenty black enough for me. Ok here.

4. SDE: Very, very little, best I’ve seen. The LPX was the worst offender by far, this is actually my major complaint about the LPX-510, the SDE at 1.5x was unacceptable. I see the SDE very rarely on the 700, it’s definitely the best of the 3. So I’m ok here, it’s not 100% perfect but in the completely acceptable range.

5. Sharpness: Pretty good here, not perfect to my eyes but really good enough. I think the LPX-510 had an overall sharper image, but you got significant SDE, so the 700 is fine, and it is sharper than the PLV-60.

6. VB and other artifacts: Ok, I have seen the VB, and the overall image of the 700 seems a little “dirty”. Now, I think some of this is due to the image being a lot clearer, so the imperfections are showing up more, as this was the case with the LPX-510 to some extent as well. Perhaps when I use HDMI this will change some. The VB is always there a little on bright scenes, now by using the Flicker control you can get rid of any large bars of VB, but on bright movement scenes, like snow or whatever you can still see some slight instances of vertical lines. My default Flicker settings were different for each RGB panel when I checked them. Something like 20 25 27, I had to move them to like, 28 and like 2A. I can’t remember exactly, I have it all written down at home. Basically it varied from like 0 to 5 or so off, when I did this all of the flickering went away completely. I remember Blue didn’t need any tweaking at all and Green was the worst offender. I think the overall image clarity is pretty good, but I think the LPX-510 was a little better in this regard. I have also noticed some lines around certain images, this looks like edge enhancement as I've seen it on the other projectors too, not sure if this is something with the 700 or not, but I thought I'd throw it out there too.

7. Lens shift is a bit of a pain, but I can deal. No power zoom/focus is also a compromise but not too horrible. LPX-510 was better and the PLV-60, being all powered was the best.

8. Overscan: The PLV-60 had around 4% and the LPX let you choose. There seems very little on the AE700, I'll check it for real tonight but I do wish it let me choose like the LPX-510, I thought this was a really nice feature of the 510.

I think we will be keeping the 700 for now. I will watch for the D5 panels and see what comes next, and considering the relatively low cost compared to the others, this makes upgrading more palatable.

I have a question:

1. Does using the horizontal and vertical image shift cause any image degradation? I find this to be almost like powered lens shift in its function. Can we use this?

Thanks! Comments? Suggestions? :)

Jordan “AstroCat”

TheFerret,

Ok, I must have missed the original hypothetical question, I was responding to the most recent exchanges and missed the hypothetical. My fault.

HMenke,

Nice screen shots and nice shot of your shelf setup. One comment though. Un-coil that power cord this instant! You don't want to entice any RF to infiltrate its way into your projector :)

AstroCat,

I see the SDE very rarely on the 500 (?), it’s definitely the best of the 3. So I’m ok here, it’s not 100% perfect but in the completely acceptable range.

A slip? You meant 700 not 500 right?

Do you mean that you occasionally see SDE or are you seeing "peak-a-boo" scanlines during fast vertical motion/panning?

Originally posted by Radsman

After reading the info in the above link, I think I now understand why I can't get a picture on my AE300 from the DVI out on my Dish 811 HD receiver. " Both major satellite manufactures (Dish and DirectTV) are now using HDCP in the DVI connections with satellite boxes." I know it works on the AE700. My AE300 is NOT HDCP compliant and won't accept an HDCP signal. Some have said that the display device does not care what it is fed and doesn't need to be HDCP compliant. This seems to contradictary. What is the TRUTH. (yes I can handle it).

A display device must be HDCP compliant in order to receive a HDCP digital feed, and the 300 is not.

Personally I switched from a HS51 order to my AE700 due to throw distance. If the sony had a longer throw distance I would have bought it in a heartbeat. they decided to go short to medium throw, so I ordered the panasonic.

Anyone else can comment on up close viewing (1.2-1.3 widths?). I still have a dream of a perf screen, but I'm doubting it can be done. With perf I'm at about 1.3, without I'm about 1.5

Whoops, yeah my fault. The 700 has little to no SDE, I fixed it above. Thanks.

1. I really do occasionally see a slight glimpse of the SDE, not "peek-a-boo" with the 700, but it's really, really subtle, and I'm at 1.5x the width.

2. On very bright solid color scenes when there is movement I can see some thin vertical artifacts at times, they are not too intrusive and it almost could be seen as the texture of the screen, if you didn't know better.

Hmmm....

Jordan "AstroCat"


Originally posted by cpc
HMenke,

Nice screen shots and nice shot of your shelf setup. One comment though. Un-coil that power cord this instant! You don't want to entice any RF to infiltrate its way into your projector :)

AstroCat,



A slip? You meant 700 not 500 right?

Do you mean that you occasionally see SDE or are you seeing "peak-a-boo" scanlines during fast vertical motion/panning?

Originally posted by cpc
HMenke,

Nice screen shots and nice shot of your shelf setup. One comment though. Un-coil that power cord this instant! You don't want to entice any RF to infiltrate its way into your projector :)

Presenting power cord for inspection, SIR! :D

Do I get extra credit for the Dynex battery backup (lamp protection) and HEPA room air filter to control dust? :)

Ok what is:

1. On very bright solid color scenes when there is movement I can see some thin vertical artifacts at times, they are not too intrusive and it almost could be seen as the texture of the screen, if you didn't know better. What is this? Is it VB?

2. I thought that VB is larger uniform stripes vertically visible, these went away when I did the initial flicker adjustment. Is this correct?

3. FPN is what gives the picture an overall dirty look, especially during movement, more of a blotchy effect. Is this correct?

4. Peek-a-boo scan lines: This I know, the LPX-510 was the worst for these. I haven't seen them at all on the AE700.


I see 1 and 3 on the AE700. Neither are super bad, but they are there. 2 went away completely after I did the Flicker tweak.
The PLV-60 and LPX-510 had these artifacts too, but to differing degrees.

Jordan "AstroCat"

Originally posted by TraderGordo
Your shelf looks great, I saw those mounting brackets at Home Depot, almost bought them myself...

Something not mentioned in this rediculously long thread -- what is the prefered way to clean the lens? I tried to use a "Micro-Clair" lens cleaning cloth, and it did a terrible job. What solutions are safe to use?

Thanks, those brackets in bronze go along with the "Arts & Crafts" sconces in the HT room. Plenty strong, too. I got mine at Lowes - I think they are marketed by Rubbermaid. One problem with these brackets is that they make the shelf tilt to the rear slightly so the PJ isn't level front to back. I guess this is so items don't fall off. I had to shim under the rear PJ foot to correct because you can't lower the front feet below the level of the rear foot.

The bracket on the left is "fake" because there is no stud in that location, just drywall anchors. However it looked pretty stupid with just a middle and right bracket, so my wife came up with the "faux" bracket idea to balance it out - neat trick. I had to get the PJ as far left as possible to be centered on the screen. I came within 4 inches (if the PJ lens had been on the left side of the unit I'd have been spot-on).

I don't actually have a lens cleaning kit yet, but I plan to get a photographic lens brush. Eventually there will be a film buildup on the lens from plastic items in the house that offgas. At that point I will have to find a suitable lens cleaning solution and cloth or swab.

I had to get the PJ as far left as possible to be centered on the screen. I came within 4 inches (if the PJ lens had been on the left side of the unit I'd have been spot-on).

Turn it upside down - shouldn't hurt since that's how ceiling mounts orient it. voila - lens on left.

Maybe just use some $1 felt pads to rest it on (and shim as you mentioned.)

E

Originally posted by BMoreE
Turn it upside down - shouldn't hurt since that's how ceiling mounts orient it. voila - lens on left.

Maybe just use some $1 felt pads to rest it on (and shim as you mentioned.)

E

Not a good idea for two reasons:
1) Fan runs louder when its upside down (by design).
2) Can't use foot adjusters.

Originally posted by BMoreE
Turn it upside down - shouldn't hurt since that's how ceiling mounts orient it. voila - lens on left.

Maybe just use some $1 felt pads to rest it on (and shim as you mentioned.)

E

Ha! That's a novel idea, thank you! But it does have some downsides: louder fan, no adjustment feet, buttons on the bottom. I think there are vents on the topside too if I recall.

HMenke,

Heheh. Thats looks very nice. Weird, in that picture, it doesn't look as though the PJ is plugged into the UPS. Looks pretty cool though.

AstroCat,

Good feedback. Sounds promising. In case you've not mentioned this already, what is your source player and what cable connection are you using to the AE700 PJ? (ie component / VGA / HDMI(DVI))? The AE700 is sounding good enough that I think its worth a try. I figure it should look fairly good.

Has anyone compared the sharpness of the AE700 with either of the older AE100 or L200 running pixel perfect? Perhaps someone who upgraded from either of those projectors? Just wondering how it looks for sharpness. I still can't get over the sharpness of my L200, even after defocussed enough to remove Screen Door. In fact, before I make the leap to the AE700 I may try to rent a Color Facts or Smart and calibrate with a filter.

Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like AE700's mounted on the shelf will run cooler than 100/200/300's and 500's ceiling mounted. They will easily shed heat from themselves via conduction, with more free air above, and less heat build-up, also, the hot air from the vent is blown away and cannot pool up around the ceiling. In my present setup, shelf-mounting will be no problem, so thats cool. But where I move to next could be a problem. I'm really curious to learn the limitations of the vertical lens shift in action.

The person asking about which DVD player to use, I'd seriously look into the Panasonic S97. Buy one, hook it up via HDMI, calibrate your setup, test it out, keep it if you like it, return it if not :)

Originally posted by cpc
Heheh. Thats looks very nice. Weird, in that picture, it doesn't look as though the PJ is plugged into the UPS. Looks pretty cool though.

Ah, but the dreaded coil of excess cord is hiding under the UPS shelf. This PJ has a really long cord!

Hey folks,

I am JUST about to order this PJ from Projector People, but can't figure out where to ship it to, my home or my office. If its the office, I need to be able to carry it on the train back home, else, I will have to take time off to stay at home to sign the packgae when it arrive.
For those who have already gotten the projector, do you know what is the dimension of the UPS package that they are shipping out?

THANKS MUCH!! :)

For months I've been planning my HT around the AE500. Long story short, there's a wall between my kitchen and living room. I plan to cut a hole in it, finish it nicely with a frame and some optical quality glass and project through that.

I'm really big on keeping the environment as quiet as possible, which is why I think it'll be so nice to have the projector on the other side of a wall.

That is until the 700!! I know moving the exhaust fan to the front is a big boon for those who want to mount on a back wall shelf, but now I'm not sure what to do!

Here's where you guys come in. As long as the area all around the back and sides of the pj is clear, do you think it's still possible to keep the glass on, or will I run into overheating issues?

Thanks!

Since the AE700 is already quiet, just leave out the front glass and make sure the sides and back are clear for the inlet air.

Originally posted by xboxfan
For months I've been planning my HT around the AE500. Long story short, there's a wall between my kitchen and living room. I plan to cut a hole in it, finish it nicely with a frame and some optical quality glass and project through that.

I'm really big on keeping the environment as quiet as possible, which is why I think it'll be so nice to have the projector on the other side of a wall.

That is until the 700!! I know moving the exhaust fan to the front is a big boon for those who want to mount on a back wall shelf, but now I'm not sure what to do!

Here's where you guys come in. As long as the area all around the back and sides of the pj is clear, do you think it's still possible to keep the glass on, or will I run into overheating issues?

Thanks!

I found the 700 to be less distracting than the drive and fans on my HTPC and DVR drive in the cable box. I don't think it is a good idea to block the front of the projector with glass unless you kept it back far enough for the hot air to get out the sides. The vents are angled, so it might work.

Using component with a panasonic RP-91 player. Looking to go with HDMI either with the new sony or panasonic player.

Jordan "AstroCat"

Originally posted by cpc
HMenke,


AstroCat,

Good feedback. Sounds promising. In case you've not mentioned this already, what is your source player and what cable connection are you using to the AE700 PJ? (ie component / VGA / HDMI(DVI))? The AE700 is sounding good enough that I think its worth a try. I figure it should look fairly good.
\

Originally posted by AstroCat
Ok, I’ve got the 700 and I’ve tested it out. I am coming from a Sanyo PLV-60 (13HD) and I have also tested the Yamaha LPX-510 (Epson-500).


Contrast: Better than the LPX-510 and not even in the same universe as the PLV-60. Blacks are plenty black enough for me. Ok here.


Jordan “AstroCat”

I had considered the LPX-510 after the stunning Wide Screen Review test article. Glad I waited for the 700. At half the price. I agree. Blacks are plenty black for me.

Originally posted by jasallen
I wanted to once again chime in about the lack of VB on my unit, because I think there is alot of scaring going on here. I understand there is a tendency to talk about problems but shut up and enjoy when you are happy, but i thought I should break that pattern a little for those that are thinking about this pj but getting worried.

Firstly, I AM a first time projector owner, however this weekend I took the pj over to the home of a very seasoned pj owner and some other HT veterans were there as well. Further, I am not a novice in adjusting AV devices in general (I've owned a sound pressure gauge for years). VB can be made visible by mucking with the flicker tweak on my unit, so its easy to see the "pattern" we're looking for. I've noticed others using very different settings than mine, I have all panels on 2B setting, I think the average of other posters is around 23. I'm not suggesting that everyone should switch to my settings, just suggesting that there IS a unit to unit difference in this regard. Like others I have observed that the green cannot be made to completely stop flickering, but is closest at 2B.

It took me several different adjustments over a couple days before I stayed happy with the adjustment, so I'm wondering if there is a break-in period before things settle out -- new automobiles (and many other things) are known to have such a condition. I was one of the early ones to take delivery, so I'm hoping that more of you will ultimitely be able to eliminate or reduce to irrelevance the VB effect.

By the way I am NOT unplugging my unit every night, I have left in on stand-by almost non-stop since taking delivery on 10/15. If anything I would wonder if unplugging might make that theorized "burn-in" period take longer -- it shouldn't affect the panels if they aren't powered, but it might (and this part is REALLY guessing) affect some other components that are under constant voltage.

**Edit** I think an even more applicable example of a burn-in requirement would be where I got the term "burn-in" in the first place -- old CRT monitors (hhmm do new ones need this too? dunno).

I'm trying everything to reduce my VB. No luck yet. All three of my panels were factory set at 29. I lowered the green to 27. That's about it. In re-checking them - they all still look fine and flicker free. I'm trying the powering down of the main switch right now. We shall see...

Originally posted by HMenke
Ah, but the dreaded coil of excess cord is hiding under the UPS shelf. This PJ has a really long cord!

How long is the cable? and does it have a special connector to the projector or is it a standard three prong?

Excellent, just the kind of detailed information I needed. Your picture was very helpful as well, and I'm now confident enough in my needs to get the materials tonight... thanks :)

Originally posted by HMenke
If I did it again I would probably go one more inch deep. The bend in my HDMI cable is a little tighter than I would have liked.

I made the shelf 24" wide and offset the PJ to the left side. This leaves me a nice extra surface on the right to hold the lens cap, the instruction manual, and my lens cleaning kit.

After almost three years I finally replaced my old AE100 with a new AE700 yesterday and spent about 3 hours with it. I used my existing ceiling mount and have it about 13 ft from the screen. Had to use the lens shift quite a bit to place the image on my screen but I would rather have that than centering the projector because my kids could probably reach it then. My old AE100 will be used as an outdoor theater on camping trips in our motorhome. Just need to get a tripod screen now.

I prefer the Cinema2 setting and this projector it can display shadow detail much better than the AE100. The increased contrast definately helps. Watching the opening scene in Gladiator I could really notice details in some of the darker areas such as the woods.

I tried both RGB from the HTPC and component from my Panny RP-56 DVD player. With the AE100 I used the HTPC exclusively because the RP56 showed a much less detailed and darker image but the AE700 does a much better job although it is a scaled image. The AE700 shows 525P as the souce with the component. I might get the new Panasonic DVD-S97S as a replacement to the RP-56. What do you think? DVD players are so much easier than HTPC's.

On the HTPC side I will definately need to do some more tweaking with powerstrip over RGB because the Windows XP desktop does not look like it has a 1 to 1 mapping like the AE100 did. I'm using the predefined 1280x720 LCD setting under powerstrip and letting the projector automatically setup the picture settings. I think a HDMI to DVI cable will be needed. Anyone else used a VGA cable and powerstrip? One of the posts in this thread had some settings for powerstrip that I tried but again the desktop did not look pixel perfect.

Another owner noticed slight color on the left and right sides of the screen. I notice that too but it is on only one column of pixels and I have to walk right up to the screen to see it. Does not affect movie watching at all. Compared to the AE100 their is no SDE and the VB and FPN are much less noticable. Colors are outstanding.

Another problem I'm having is with the SPDIF Digital output from my SB Audigy card. It works fine but I noticed a big improvement on sound using the RP-56 optical output. Probably a question better suited for the HTPC thread.

The projector is nice but without this forum I would not have known anything about it and would have probably paid too much at one of the local shops.

Allen, thanks for maintaining such a wonderful resource.

Originally posted by xboxfan
For months I've been planning my HT around the AE500. Long story short, there's a wall between my kitchen and living room. I plan to cut a hole in it, finish it nicely with a frame and some optical quality glass and project through that.

I'm really big on keeping the environment as quiet as possible, which is why I think it'll be so nice to have the projector on the other side of a wall.

That is until the 700!! I know moving the exhaust fan to the front is a big boon for those who want to mount on a back wall shelf, but now I'm not sure what to do!

Here's where you guys come in. As long as the area all around the back and sides of the pj is clear, do you think it's still possible to keep the glass on, or will I run into overheating issues?

Thanks!

They don't even recommend putting it in a bookshelf (too enclosed) much less BLOCKING the front exhaust. Very bad idea (although I totally understand where you are coming from). Maybe you could mod it.

To the other guy - deliver it to the office, the box is small.

Originally posted by beocop
Since the AE700 is already quiet, just leave out the front glass and make sure the sides and back are clear for the inlet air.

Thanks for the reply, beocop. I may very well do that, but am trying to avoid it. I know people say this pj makes little noise, but one man's quiet is another man's thunder :D

Plus, I don't like hearing that a lot of people run in low lamp mode just to keep the fan noise down and conserve their bulb. I know they're expensive to replace, but I don't spend this kind of money to not use something to its full potential. If I like the PQ better using one of the higher lamp modes, you'd better belive I'm going to run it that way. I know this will also increase fan noise. It's yet another reason to keep it behind glass.

Guess I'll try it w/o the glass first & if it seems too loud I'll go from there.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TraderGordo
[B]They don't even recommend putting it in a bookshelf (too enclosed) much less BLOCKING the front exhaust. Very bad idea (although I totally understand where you are coming from). Maybe you could mod it.

Wow, this is an active thread! Lol, TraderGordo, you replied while I was posting.

I wasn't planning on completely blocking the front exhaust, but placing the pj about 6" behind the glass, with nothing but clear space on the sides and top (12-16 inches at least).

I notice the exhaust grills angle away from the lens, so I was hoping this combined with setting it back from the glass a bit would do the trick.

Well, since my 700 is on preorder, I'd better quit adding to this humongous thread and just see how things go once I get it. :D

Thanks again and I'll keep you all posted!

Originally posted by ay221
How long is the cable? and does it have a special connector to the projector or is it a standard three prong?

The power connector on the PJ isn't a PC type, it looks more like a three-leaf clover. I don't know how long the cord is now that I have it clamped up, but I would say it is something like 10 or 12 feet.

6" in front and 12" on the sides = blocking. If you could direct the blast of hot air out somehow, and run it in high fan mode, you might be OK, but without modification you will likely damage the projector longer term, not to mention the hot air in your "box" will almost certainly distort the projected image.


Originally posted by xboxfan
[QUOTE]Originally posted by TraderGordo
[B]They don't even recommend putting it in a bookshelf (too enclosed) much less BLOCKING the front exhaust. Very bad idea (although I totally understand where you are coming from). Maybe you could mod it.

Wow, this is an active thread! Lol, TraderGordo, you replied while I was posting.

I wasn't planning on completely blocking the front exhaust, but placing the pj about 6" behind the glass, with nothing but clear space on the sides and top (12-16 inches at least).

I notice the exhaust grills angle away from the lens, so I was hoping this combined with setting it back from the glass a bit would do the trick.

Well, since my 700 is on preorder, I'd better quit adding to this humongous thread and just see how things go once I get it. :D

Thanks again and I'll keep you all posted!

Originally posted by bakpakva
I found the 700 to be less distracting than the drive and fans on my HTPC and DVR drive in the cable box. I don't think it is a good idea to block the front of the projector with glass unless you kept it back far enough for the hot air to get out the sides. The vents are angled, so it might work.

In normal mode, the AE700 was noticably quieter than both the BenQ PE8700 and the Infocus ScreenPlay5000 ... I just finished a shootout (also included was the Panasonic PT-L500U).

Here is a teaser shot ... many more to come.
The PE8700 is on the left, AE700 on the right ... both uncalibrated at this point, right out of the box.

Ugh whats with the green ? I will await more details on source, screen etc in your write up. I thought the color balance right of the box was supposedly pretty good. Hmm..

Originally posted by Durabolin
Ugh whats with the green ? I will await more details on source, screen etc in your write up. I thought the color balance right of the box was supposedly pretty good. Hmm..

Yeah, that's one scary picture. The 700 side looks undersaturated as well
as super green.

Originally posted by Durabolin
Ugh whats with the green ? I will await more details on source, screen etc in your write up. I thought the color balance right of the box was supposedly pretty good. Hmm..

If, as stated, that was right out of the box, then I'd say the pic is a fairly accurate (maybe slightly overemphasized due to digital camera) representation because the factory default is on Normal mode which is brighter and more saturated but the colors are also a little off. For simple 30 second setup, Natural mode with color temp -1 is the closest to optimal, but if you take a little time to calibrate it properly with Avia or DVE or something else, colors are even better, and contrast and reducing of edge enhancement and other problems will improve.

BTW, for anyone interested, I checked it out and yes, with a constant voltage power conditioner powering the projector, you do get a slight but noticeable improvement in color saturation and PQ. I hooked mine up to a Sola S4700 On-Line UPS so the projector is fully protected from power problems and the power is completely clean. If you would like to find out stats and info on the Sola S4700 you can check out www.sola-hevi-duty.com
They currently have the S4700 (120V, 700VA) on special for $779 but I got 2 brand new units for $140 shipped:D

The Sola 4k series online UPS units are excellent and are generally used for high end commercial apps. The power is filtered, then inverted to DC and then converted back to 120V with an optimized sine wave and it constantly outputs this clean power. The output is clean of EMI, RFI, voltage transients and the unit also has surge protection capabilites. There is a bypass to bypass the transformer, filter and AC regeneration circuits providing maximum available power (unfiltered/unmodified) from the wall outlet if the equipment hooked up to it draws more power than the rated wattage but in normal operation, it produces clean power. Typical offline UPS units generally provide crappy power straight from the outlet and provide power from the battery only when there is a power failure, but even the battery power from something like an APC UPS is crappy. Sola is considered to manufacture some of the best industrial/commercial power conditioners and constant voltage transformers. Figured I was getting something similar to the PS Audio PowerPlant series without the huge costs PLUS this thing does have a battery in case of power outtages.

In the case of audio equipment it's possible to try their MCR range of contant voltage power conditioners. These units are highly recommended by professional photographers and studio labs. A search on google should show up with a review a photographer had of the difference one of these made in taking photos with medium format digital backs and printing large prints. Both the MCR and 4k series UPS units can output contant voltage with crappy input voltages that vary as much as 10-15% so if your wall outlet voltage drops to 95V or spikes as high as 132V, the MCR or 4K UPS will still put out 120V regulated within +/-3%. They've also got the CVS line which don't have as much EMI, RFI filtering as the MCR line but regulate voltage to 1%.

PS. No I don't sell these. I just thought I'd pass along some info that might be of help/interest to fellow forumites. After all, isn't that what forums are for? To allow many people with experience and information in many differing areas and from many different aspects to share all this info.

This is an email I sent to tech support at projectorpeople.com:

I have a minor issue with my new Panasonic PT-AE700U. If I leave the main power switch on all night (projector in standby mode), the next time I turn it on it has terrible vertical banding. I have been turning the projector off at the main switch after cooldown, and now the vertical banding has gone away.

I have been reading in the online home theater forums that this is a common issue with this model. Is Panasonic concerned or planning to do anything about it? It is rather inconvenient to turn on and off the main power switch all the time. I would rather be able to just use the remote.
and their reply:

I have not heard of this issue with this projector yet. As you know this is a new model and we have yet to hear of any bugs or problems with it. Unfortunately Panasonic is closed today for election day, but I will contact them tomorrow to see if this has been recognized as a problem as of yet. I will send you an email with my findings.

Just so I can get a handle on the current (as-of-yet-unsolved) issues with the 700, here's my summary:

1) VB remains a problem for many people, but only on flat colored areas (underwater scenes, fog, etc).

2) Flicker correction takes care of the problem in the short term, but putting the machine in "standby" overnight somehow erases any tweaking you do to correct the problem.

3) Images look too green? ( 2 reports)

4) Slight green ghosting of text? (1 or 2 reports)


Things that are not a problem

1) Dead pixels are not a problem.

2) Fan noise is not a problem.

3) Black levels seem good to very-good.

4) Mounting is a breeze especially for prior panny owners.

5) Lens shift seems to work well.

6) Screendoor seems fine for most users (some use slight defocus).



So far the only alarming thing in my book is this "No Standby" problem. Since I'm looking at a ceiling mount, climbing up on a ladder to power down would be an utter pain in the a**. And of course if the images look as green as they did in that one post, this whole thing's going to be a non-starter.

Am I missing anything issue-wise that's been raised so far?

Originally posted by Durabolin
Ugh whats with the green ? I will await more details on source, screen etc in your write up. I thought the color balance right of the box was supposedly pretty good. Hmm..

I am assuming you never saw the movie?
It's the new Cat in the Hat ...
Wait until you see the rest of the shots. Some are all purple, some all red, etc etc etc.
It's the movie (plus the camera).

Thanks again for all the input.

Although I was hoping to hear otherwise, you guys are right, that would probably be too hot for the poor pj behind glass. Maybe if I worked up some sort of "hush box" arrangement......hmmmm. Will have to think about that one.

Aside from that my other thought is to just go with an AE500. Heat wouldn't be a problem with the rear exhaust of this unit. Decisions, decisions!

Once again, I'll keep you posted.

Originally posted by TheFerret
I find it funny that people would still choose the Panny when most in this thread haven't even seen the new Sony. Ahh, the politics of projectors and the self-justification of one's purchase already at hand. :D


Three people answered the hypothetical question of which would they buy if they were the same price:

Originally posted by TraderGordo
From what I've read so far (which is admitedly limited) I would still pick the panny over the hs51 even if they were the same price. Mostly because of the superior throw flexibility, brightness, and yes, the lack of screen door on the panny. That said, I haven't seen the hs51, maybe its contrast and lack of VB would give it the edge.

Originally posted by AugDog
I would still buy the 700. Throw, smoothscreen and lumens.

Originally posted by bakpakva
I will drink to that! I would have to ceiling mount the Sony ($$) and would probably still be trying to get it aligned correctly. The 700 is bright enough to watch on low lamp, so that will save bulb life as well ($$).


All three picked the Panny and all three mentioned the main reason as the better throw and ease of mounting location. I don't think you have to see both projectors to know which will fit in your room better based on the throw range calculations. I also don't see how baseing a decision on throw equates to self-justification. :confused:




Stew

If it makes you feel better, I'd take the 51 :P

Stew, thanks for the quick insertion of reality. So, no one stated they would take the Panasonic because it had a better picture. LOL

You are correct in assuming i have not seen Cat in the Hat or whatever its called and i never plan to :)

If it has deliberate color emphasis from scene to scene it strikes me as an odd movie to use for a screen shot :) But hey ill take any screenshots i can get so keep em coming !!

Originally posted by TheFerret
Stew, thanks for the quick insertion of reality. So, no one stated they would take the Panasonic because it had a better picture. LOL

I hope H51 does have a better picture, it will make it worth the wait for those still on the sidelines. And I hope that the next generation of Panny is better than my 700. As long as everyone is tickled pink with their new toys the world will be a happier place ;-)

Hi there

I just bought the panny 700 - I have it connected with a also new bought denon 1910 dvd connected through hdmi. I also have it hooked up on my htpc through the vga port.

I have only played pal dvds, since my denon is not (yet) region free.

The vga/htpc works fine, but the hdmi from the denon player does not scale the full image. I have the denon to output 720 dvi so it should give me 1:1 pixels, but there is a app. 10 pixel black border on all sides.

Does anyone else have experience with upscaling dvd players and the panny 700?

Steen

Originally posted by Ericbres
In normal mode, the AE700 was noticably quieter than both the BenQ PE8700 and the Infocus ScreenPlay5000 ... I just finished a shootout (also included was the Panasonic PT-L500U).

Here is a teaser shot ... many more to come.
The PE8700 is on the left, AE700 on the right ... both uncalibrated at this point, right out of the box.

Wow, that is the most awful picture on the 700 I have ever seen. If mine looked like that when I took it out of the box and sat it on the shelf, I think I would have had a big knot in my stomach! Actually, when I first hooked mine up it looked terrible, until I found out that the middle connector on the composite input wasn't pushed in all the way. Now that was a nasty image! I found that if I put the middle connector in first, it was easier to put the other two in correctly. The outer casing of the RCA plugs on my cable are just a tad too big.

<edit> That should read component input, not composite

Originally posted by bakpakva
Wow, that is the most awful picture on the 700 I have ever seen...

Making quality judgements on low res images posted on a message board viewed on a non calibrated PC monitor is pretty much futile.

My AE700 gets here tomnorrow if UPS is to be belived. I will pit it against a PLV70/SE20HD with a blown blue polarizer, we'll see who wins that one.

Originally posted by TheFerret
Stew, thanks for the quick insertion of reality. So, no one stated they would take the Panasonic because it had a better picture. LOL


Correct. I think you're getting it now. You can't say it has a better picture, because nobody has seen the 51 yet (final version). You can, however, say certain specs could lead to advantages. Why does this logic cause you to laugh?



Stew

Hey newbie question here.... I am about ready to pull the trigger on the 700 but I was wondering if the vga input can be used with a component device.. ie.. component one end and vga on the other cable from my x box. I want to avoid using a splitter or upgrading to a better reciever. I am looking to do hdmi for dvd and component for comcast hdtv... and I would love to use my xbox into the vga.. will this work?? Any of you use a sanyo z2 previously before using the ae700? I was able to demo the z2 at my house for a weekend on a white wall and loved the price performance and almost pulled the trigger... will the panny be worth the extra $$$ I am pretty sure I know the answer.. but I am still nervous buying something sight unseen .. etc.... Thanks Rocktim

I'm laughnig because sometimes I am trying to express a point and somethimes its taken in the opposite manner intended. I knew from the get-go one cannot make a compairson between two projectors if one hasn't been released yet.

And yet, I will compare both against my low-end 7" CRT.

Originally posted by rocktim
I was wondering if the vga input can be used with a component device.. ie.. component one end and vga on the other cable from my x box.

I think you'll need a component to RGB converter like this:
http://www.audioauthority.com/aacconsumers/9a65detc.html

Originally posted by sj1972
Hi there

I just bought the panny 700 - I have it connected with a also new bought denon 1910 dvd connected through hdmi. I also have it hooked up on my htpc through the vga port.

I have only played pal dvds, since my denon is not (yet) region free.

The vga/htpc works fine, but the hdmi from the denon player does not scale the full image. I have the denon to output 720 dvi so it should give me 1:1 pixels, but there is a app. 10 pixel black border on all sides.

Does anyone else have experience with upscaling dvd players and the panny 700?

Steen

I too have the same issue with my Denon 3910 & AE 700.
Any experts out there who can help?

Steen and Craig,

Aside from the borders your experiencing, in using an upconverting DVD player, have you guys noticed the degree of VB that others have mentioned with the Panny 700?

Have any Visual Apex customers received confirmation of shipment yet? I was called yesterday by them, and they said it would ship within the next 3 days. Has anyone received a tracking number yet?

Is the HDMI IN male or female on the AE700?

I received my AE700 on Monday, and everything is working great.

My only problem right now (or irritation) is the black level. What is the setting for achieving the blackest black?

grant80

I have not experienced VB (yet & hopefully never) and I won't be trying to find it.:p

Tom

The HDMI connector on the AE700 is female. You can download the user manual from the Panasonic website for other details if you wish.

Ok, I just received my AE700 from Projector Point tonight. I had to go to UPS to pick it up since I was not here for the delivery. I will give you my initial impressions based on a quick set up as my room is not fully functional yet.

This is my first PJ and I have only viewed a Sony HS10, HS20, TX100 and Sharp 12k so I am still pretty new to this stuff. I have a JVC progressive DVD player using component and complete light control with a DIY black out screen and velvet border. Initially after unpacking and setting up on a makeshift table I powered on and popped in the Van Helsing dvd. The movie tends to have a lot of dark scenes and I was impressed with the brightness of the image and the black levels. My wife commented that the colors looked very good. I had to agree. I skipped into a scene in the woods with fog and mist. I looked for the dreaded VB and thought I saw a glimpse once or twice but honestly nothing jumped out at me. Then again maybe it was FPN. I am not sure if I know the difference. If that was what all the worry is about, I must have scored a good unit. The image then improved further after I did a little sharpening with the focus and testing of a few settings. I settled on Normal mode for now. Dynamic seemed too intense and Cinema1 was a tad bit too dull (remember I am used to RPTV). It became apparent that I could be spending a few hours tweaking even though things look pretty good right now out of the box.

As far as screendoor, there was virtually none to my eyes. The screen is 100" and I was sitting at about 17 feet away.

I quickly ran through a few more dvd's including Shrek and Vertical Limit. The cliff scene at the beginning was really cool and I am definitely going through the "wow" factor. It felt like I was climbing too :) The dvd's looked really good and I can only imagine what HD will look like.

My only complaint was the black out cloth screen did not hold up well to ambient light. The recessed light really dimmed the picture. A little light was fine but half to full light killed the image quite a bit. I may be painting the screen or buying some HCCV material in the future. No VB yet and I made sure to turn it off instead of sitting in stand by mode. I will have more comments in the days to follow but I just wanted everyone to know this is a really good projector for the money and don't be scared off by potential VB.

GO BUY ONE!

Originally posted by SingleA
Have any Visual Apex customers received confirmation of shipment yet? I was called yesterday by them, and they said it would ship within the next 3 days. Has anyone received a tracking number yet?

I have a tracking number from VA. The unit should be here tomorrow.

Receiving mine from VA on the 9th....just got word this evening

Well, my inferiority complex is over, as my UPS guy handed me my 700 (from Visual Apex) this evening. FINALLY! Well guys (and we are all guys, aren't we? Is there even one gal on this thread? Why can't the womenfolk just let their hair down and be psycho-geeks too? Perhaps some of you ARE chicks, and you're just not foolish enough to let a bunch of sex-starved, light-deprived techno-nerds catch a whiff), it's been quite a ride with the motley crew of the the good ship ">>>Consolidated AE700 thread- Don't start new ones<<<". I'm gonna dive in, & when I come up for air I'll post my impressions.

Countless thank-you's for all the info while I waited. I'm over-the-top jazzed about the good stuff, and ready & armed to deal with any of the potential bad stuff.

KongFan (and I'm KIDDING, ok?)

KongFan , to the contrary -- there are women lurking, reading, posting on this thread. I know I am not the only one, though we are a distinct minority. You guys deal with the WAF, I have to deal with the HAF. It works both ways :P

Anyway, I received my AE700 last Friday (second batch from Projector People) and have some initial (non-expert, non-tweaked) impressions. Compared to my old AE100, this PJ just throws a much, much brighter picture. On a cloudy day (last Saturday), I was able to watch in my family room the first few daylight Shire scenes from LOTR:FOTR with virtually no wash-out in the image. My family room has a 10ft sliding door on one side and a small window towards the back of the room -- with no shades. I've watched these scenes many times on my AE100 and, basically, any small amount of ambient light would just wash out the images. Quite impressive improvement IMO.

Also watched Van Helsing last Sunday night and was quite impressed with the black levels. That movie has a black and white segment at the beginning and the various tones of gray/black came off quite nicely. (What a crap movie BTW!) Also, due to the extreme crappiness of the movie, my husband and I ended up getting up a lot during the movie to raid the refrig (the kitchen is open to the family room) and the little bit of (dim) lighting we turned on in the kitchen didn't really affect our viewing that much. Actually, it was to the point that we kept the lights on (dimly) in the kitchen for the last third of the movie so we had a clear path to the kitchen (we were really bored and ate much). (Did I mention this movie sucked?)

As reported by a number of reviewers in this thread (new AE700 owners), SDE is a non-issue unless you sit there with you nose practically to the screen. My husband (who is trying to nitpick everything because he thinks it's not quite time for an upgrade yet), had to stick his face about 1-1/2 feet from the screen before he yelled "AHA! there's the screen door." (Loser)

Anyway, I should emphasize again that I have not done ANY tweaking of the PJ, watched only in Normal mode and used only component cables. By the end of next week, I hope to have my HT fully wired and have HD, and therefore give a better, less plain out-of-the-box report. So far, my husband's giving it the thumbs up after watching two movies on it. (The loserish behavior was before he saw movies on the PJ.)

Use R. Name

P.S. On my AE100, there is a noticeable improvement between using components vs. VGA. Anyone have any experience with this on the 700? Is it the same, or should I just go directly to HDMI (which I may now have to buy 20 ft of . . . from somewhere . . . . ).

Got my call from VA on Monday at 3.45pm and a tracking number in my inbox by Tuesday 8.40am.

I'm still being "zen" about the whole thing ... it will arrive when it arrives (though I paid for 2 day delivery, dammit!)

I've read all the posts, encouraged by some, discouraged by others, but all-in-all, I'm looking forward to just relaxing, taking it easy and enjoying some kick-*ss movies.

Is this a great hobby (excuse me, life changin experience) or what? :)

It looks like the majority of AE700 owners are reporting no visible SDE unless you are very close to the screen. I seem to be in the minority because I am sitting at 1.5x screen width from a 90" diagonal screen and I do see some SDE. It is not gross artifact but fairly subtle. The SDE is very fine pitched and appears for the most part under dynamic rather than static conditions. It is apparent mainly on lighter colored objects when the object is moving or being panned across. I would not say that it is not too bothersome but I do have to consciously "teach" my perception to ignore it. I do not plan to defocus to eliminate it because I prefer the sharpest possible picture.

HMenke
The SDE that you're seeing. Could it have anything to do with the screen material?? Maybe a screen texture that has the same effect as SDE??

Originally posted by echo512
I received my AE700 on Monday, and everything is working great.

My only problem right now (or irritation) is the black level. What is the setting for achieving the blackest black?

Try these settings:
Low lamp
Dynamic Iris "on"
Noise reduction "off"
"Normal" mode
Brightness, Contrast and Tint at factory "0"
Color at - 8
Sharpness all the way down to - 6
Color temp at "0"

Watched newly released DVD of Deep Impact last night and fleshtones were damn near flawless (for LCD) and black levels were very very black. No hint of VB or FPN (Yea!) on this DVD. I can't tell you how nice it is to have the projector at the very back of the room - vs. hanging above and slightly in front of seated position. I would buy the 700 for this reason alone! When you add in the ultra quite fan (in desk mode) you simply can't beat it. Very pleased. Should hold me off for one year at least (I had my 500 for only 8 months).

Originally posted by HMenke
It looks like the majority of AE700 owners are reporting no visible SDE unless you are very close to the screen. I seem to be in the minority because I am sitting at 1.5x screen width from a 90" diagonal screen and I do see some SDE. It is not gross artifact but fairly subtle. The SDE is very fine pitched and appears for the most part under dynamic rather than static conditions. It is apparent mainly on lighter colored objects when the object is moving or being panned across. I would not say that it is not too bothersome but I do have to consciously "teach" my perception to ignore it. I do not plan to defocus to eliminate it because I prefer the sharpest possible picture.

I see screendoor, but that is because my projector is 8 feet from the screen with the zoom maxed to make the biggest picture possible. Once I go down to 1.5x zoom or so, it's non existant. And, I only see it on the brightest scenes.

I'm on the VA pre-order list, but have not heard from them yet, due to my lateness in calling I imagine... an email indicated they would call today, but I might up my shipping to overnight, as my excitement factor is startint to rise after being very calm and patient about it so far. I still have a lot of work to do at this point, one reason I'm not ready is due to building a nice HTPC to run the whole thing, and all my computer parts are not here yet. I am picking up my screen today, as I went the DIY route, and I have someone spraying it today.

I also have a lot of cable running to do, as the room I'm setting up as my HT has not had equipment in it before... drilling holes in the walls, putting up a shelf to hold the PJ, getting ethernet from my router down to the HTPC... man, I better get busy :)

Another quick question, for those using a HTPC, did you need to use Powerstrip when connecting by HDMI?

Originally posted by bapenguin
I see screendoor, but that is because my projector is 8 feet from the screen with the zoom maxed to make the biggest picture possible. Once I go down to 1.5x zoom or so, it's non existant. And, I only see it on the brightest scenes.

I don't see SDE being an issue at all on the 700 (and it wasn't on the 500 either). If you're seeing it - something might be wrong with your set-up. Lack of SDE on the 700 is one of it's strongest attributes. If not the strongest. (IMHO)

Use R. Name,

Good feedback. I too am an AE100 (currently own an L200 actually, but essentially similar to the AE100) owner and so your feedback is useful. What dvd source player and connection are you using for the AE700 right now? Component cables? I imagine VGA and HDMI should be an improvement.

How sharp is the AE700 vs your AE100? (comparing after you've de-focussed the AE100 however much you do for your personal taste) I'm curious because I'm very happy with the sharpness of my 200.

HMenke,

Are you sure you're seeing screen door and not peak-a-boo scanlines? They are more of a vertical motion artifact. On a non-smooth-screen projector, you can defocus to eliminate them, but with smooth screen, as you mentioned, you want to keep it as sharp as possible.

Good feedback people. There seems to be quite a large number of people buying the AE700.

Have any Visual Apex customers received confirmation of shipment yet? I was called yesterday by them, and they said it would ship within the next 3 days. Has anyone received a tracking number yet?

I recieved the call from VA yesterday and got my tracking number late last night. I should have the PJ today!

Has anyone played around with "Dot Clock" and "Clock Phase" settings yet? User manual seems to indicate these too can impact VB issues. I'll test tonight.


Regarding Flicker adjustment -- this definitely seems to vary unit to unit. I tried the "2B" setting someone suggested, and it made things notably worse. For me, I can't find anything better than 23R/23B/26G. VB is really reduced from what it was out of the box, barely noticeable now even in the worst conditions. I also decided to test the "break in period" theory. After watching election coverage for 8 hours straight yesterday, I left it in standby instead of powering it off. I turned it on this morning to check if VB was worse or the same. It was worse. This doesn't necessarily disprove the theory, as maybe my projector still isn't "broken in", but for now anyway, I'm going to keep powering it off but periodically I'll check to see if the issue has disappeared.

I am picking up my AE700 this Saturday and I plan to test the unit out before I purchase.

Can anyone tell me :

a) What movies/scenes will test for vertical banding? I want to avoid a unit that has obvious VB problems.

b) What degree of panel misalignment is acceptable and how do I best test for this?

c) I gather that I should be able to spot any dead pixels very quickly against a white field. True ?

This is my first projector and any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Well I set my 700 up on Monday night and first impressions were not so hot. Right away I dislike the lens shift. It seems to be biased to pointing down and not at the middle of the screen. When it it is near the center and exactly in the middle of the lens shift, It looks like the picture needs keystone correction. Not good. I ended up using lens shift to get rid of this and now the lens shift is up a litltle even though it should be dead center. All in all the L500u was a lot easier to setup for me. The first thing I tried was HD on the Dish 6000. I have to say that there was some difference between 720p and 1080i on the L500U, but not as big a difference on this AE700. I was watching TNTHD last night and 1080i was a LOT sharper for some reason on the AE700. I am not sure if this is good or bad for the projector. The picture when setup right was a LOT better as far as contrast and brightness is concerned. It is a tossup in other areas. The sharpness problem some people are seeing is the same thing I saw with my AE700. It just takes some more working of the setup to get the sharpnes on par with the 500. I am happy I have the 700, but I would be just fine with the 500 for one reason. When I hooked the HDMI to the computer, It did not fill the screen. I will have to do some more work on that as my HTPC suddenly was infected by the sasser worm. Can a HDMI output a virus froma projector? j/k. I want to comment on vertical banding and picture noise. The source I believe is 9/10 times the culprit for this. I hooked up my PS2 and xbox as well as my Pioneer Elite dvd player to get out of the box impressions. The xbox looked really good but really shined on Dragon's Lair 3d(1080i). The ps2 looked good but I saw absolutely terrible VB when I played a game in 480p(socom 2). I thought this is no good, although I did not see it on the other sources. I then decided to turn off the progressive scan on the game in question and -Viola!, No VB. The scaler in the PS2 sucks. Period. The one in the AE700 is a LOT better, so do not even use progressive scan on the ps2. I noticed this before on the 500 that P-scan looked equal to what it was without it on and the projector upscaling. Problem solved. Now I did touch the flicker tweak and amazingly all of my values looked flicker free at 27. SDE is a tad bit more with the 700 than the 500. I am happy over all, but first impressions were lackluster. Once it is setup though, it is better than anything I have seen.

Originally posted by HMenke
It looks like the majority of AE700 owners are reporting no visible SDE unless you are very close to the screen. I seem to be in the minority because I am sitting at 1.5x screen width from a 90" diagonal screen and I do see some SDE. It is not gross artifact but fairly subtle. The SDE is very fine pitched and appears for the most part under dynamic rather than static conditions. It is apparent mainly on lighter colored objects when the object is moving or being panned across. I would not say that it is not too bothersome but I do have to consciously "teach" my perception to ignore it. I do not plan to defocus to eliminate it because I prefer the sharpest possible picture.

HMenke: what screen are you using?

My 700 makes clicking noises when I turn it on. Any other 700 owner hear the same thing? Is it the dynamic iris mechanism?

I hate the lens shift. I of course turn the little nob counter-clockwise to allow for adjustment but it still sticks for fine adjustments.

Use R. Name, glad to see another converted AE100 person. Did you mount the 700 the same distance as your 100 from the screen?

Component cables look much better on the 700 comapred to the 100 IMHO.

"Right away I dislike the lens shift... looks like the picture needs keystone correction. Not good. I ended up using lens shift to get rid of this."

OK -- I'm nominating this for the "Most confusing statement of the thread" award.

:)

But seriously, the lens "shifter" is irritatingly jerky, but come on, who really cares? You mount or shelf the projector and adjust the lens ONCE so that the picture is positioned on your screen. What's the big deal??? It might have even been designed this way intentionally, to keep it from drifting or being easily knocked out of position.

p.s. Yes, it clicks when you turn it on. [was discussed in this thread...]

zxlr8, interesting observations with your AE700, especially between the interlaced and progressive output observations for VB.

Well it looked rather confusing. I had the projector dead level and the lens shift iin the center, but I saw a taper on the right and left edge. Lens shift up fixed it, but now the projector points down a tad. I know, very wierd.....

Originally posted by jayfsee007
I am picking up my AE700 this Saturday and I plan to test the unit out before I purchase.

Can anyone tell me :

a) What movies/scenes will test for vertical banding? I want to avoid a unit that has obvious VB problems.

b) What degree of panel misalignment is acceptable and how do I best test for this?

c) I gather that I should be able to spot any dead pixels very quickly against a white field. True ?

This is my first projector and any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

a) M&C and Pirates of the Caribbean fog scenes.

b) can't answer what you may feel is acceptable, but to test: Menu --> Options --> OSD (hold for about 4 seconds) --> Service Mode. Use the Up arrow on the remote to move to various test patterns (cross-hatch, etc), once in the desired pattern, use the L/R arrows to scroll through the LCD panels, plus gray.

c) Not necessarily. The best way to look for dead pixels is to scroll through the individual LCD panels where dead pixels originate. To do this without adding a pattern to the primary colors, simply use the L/R arrows immediately upon entering the Service Mode.

You can test for misalignment with DVE or Avia as well, but the above method allows a cursory test to be done without a source connected.

I got a japenese Ae700 and I have an input not on the others. It is a D4 input. It looks simlar to an HDMI input. It is probably explained in my manual, but I quit reading Japenese when I grew up. j/k. Wierd. Also for those having color uniformity problems, you can set colors per a zone on the screen through color managemant. That is definitely cool.

Dude, ambient light is like gonorrhea. You don't want any.
No matter what anyone says who has some, don't listen to them.

Is anyone using the color management options? I either missed the discussion on here about it, or no one really cares?

Originally posted by PAP
Dude, ambient light is like gonorrhea. You don't want any.
No matter what anyone says who has some, don't listen to them. And here I thought ambient light was like democrats, as little in the area as possible. j/k :p

Got the UPS notice last night, baby is due for delivery Friday.
I haven't noticed anyone stressing over their Alliant pre-order, but thought there might be someone lurking.

I'm looking forward to joining the ranks of the light-deprived. My wife would be highly offended if I admitted to any of the other symptoms, so we'll leave it at that. :-)

It will be very interesting to compare the PQ of the AE700 against the Samsung 5065. (50" DLP RPTV) We'll give the AE700 a handicap for the difference in screen size, (118" BW Carada vs 50" RP) but otherwise will start with as few pre-conceptions as possible. We've had the Samsung since last winter, so know its quirks reasonably well.

So.. The plan is a few hours of break-in and 'toy joy' followed by a basic Avia calibration. We'll see if it actually works out that way. :-)

--jim

Originally posted by bakpakva
Is anyone using the color management options? I either missed the discussion on here about it, or no one really cares?

Too complicated - and I would probably make things worse by messing with it.

I'm very happy with the color as it is.

I received my AE700 on monday and I've had a couple of days to play with it at this point. Keep in mind that I'm a complete newb and this is my first projector. I am by no means a videophile. I just really enjoy a big screen.

I bought the AE700 as an upgrade to my 50" Mitsubishi Gold Series 4:3 standard def television for movie viewing, some TV viewing and some PS2 gaming.

I have placed my projector on top of my audio/video cabinet in the back of my viewing room about 20 feet back from the screen. Setup was a complete breeze. I plugged my PS2 into my receiver via S-Video. I plugged my crappy $50 Daewoo DVD player into my receiver via S-Video and I plugged my HD cable (just installed yesterday) into the component input on the AE700. The PS2 and the DVD player can be switched back and forth via the receiver which is plugged into the projector.

The room where the projector is contained is an unfinished basement with cinder block walls and an open ceiling. The projector is shining onto a Dalite 120" class C matte white 16:9 screen.

The DVD's that I recall viewing to some extent were LOTR2, Goldmember, Jeff Buckleys Grace DVD (from the new release of the Grace record), Mason Jennings "Use Your Van" DVD (yes, I like music), Castaway and some other stuff. They all looked darn great with factory settings on the projector. I tended to like the "dynamic" mode the mose with a slight blue brightness tweak to about +2. It probably looks like crap to a real videophile, but it suits my eyes just fine. I found myself switching between different modes for different sources (TV, PS2 or DVD), but using Dynamic the most with the slight blue brightness tweak.

The colors in Goldmember looked awesome to me. I thought it looked crisper and clearer than my 5 y/o Mitsubishi (which, by the way, costed me about $200 more than this projector and screen). Contrast was great to my eye. Blacks are not "true black", but it's black enough for me. I thought the picture, contrast and brightness were fantastic.

When the cable guy came by yesterday and installed the HD cable he commented on how great the picture looked and this was during the day with 4 windows allowing sunlight into the room and a 60W bulb on in the viewing room. Sure, the color was a bit washed out, but it was viewable to me and under the circumstances we both thought it looked great. He had just purchased a 65" Sony 16:9 RPTV and he thought the picture (with the lights out) on the AE700 was better than his new Sony. He was a bit jealous and miffed that he paid twice as much for his new Sony RPTV than I did for the AE700.

HD cable looked amazing on the 1080i stations and the 720p stations. In fact regular cable didn't even look THAT bad, but there is definately a HUGE jump in picture quality on the HD stations. I was impressed at how good the regular and digital cable stations looked though at the size they were projected. Again, I think they were better than my 50" Mitsu.

I played GTA: San Andreas a bit on the projector (and watched my brother play quite a bit last night) and it's a little bigger than it needs to be. It was surprisingly good though. I didn't expect much out of the PS2, but the projector performed nicely with it. Much better than I expected. Actually much MUCH better.

I have to bring up HDTV again, because this is my first HD capable TV and I was just amazed with it. It's so good that I find myself watching the most uninteresting shows just because of the "wow" factor with the clarity and the size of the screen. At night with the lights off in pure darkness it is a truely amazing experience.

I see no vertical banding in the picture, but I do see an occasional unidentified artifact. It's nothing that discracts me from the viewing experience. I have noticed a flash of SDE maybe twice on very bright white portions of the screen, but seriously. SDE on this projector is a non-issue. SDE is something that I was really worried about when buying an LCD projector and I literally have to be 12 inches from the screen before I can normally see any sort of pixelation.

I am amazed with the performance with this projector, but keep in mind that I've only seen maybe 3-4 projectors in action. I was not impressed with the ones that I had seen at Ultimate Electronics (probably due to their setup in the store) and I was not impressed with the 1 LCD projector I saw for sale for $4000 at a botique or their $12K Barco DLP projector. I saw alot of artifacts on all of those. I very rarely see artifacts on my AE700.

Words can't explain my sheer joy with this projector.

Slicksnail

Originally posted by jayfsee007
I am picking up my AE700 this Saturday and I plan to test the unit out before I purchase.

Can anyone tell me :

a) What movies/scenes will test for vertical banding? I want to avoid a unit that has obvious VB problems.

Thanks

Best I've found is the U-571 DVD, Chapter 15 - play. As soon as the scene changes to an underwater shot of the submarine diving - you will (may) see alternating vertical bars (stripes) throughout the image. I didn't count them - but there are probably a dozen or so - thick bands alternating between light green and a darker green. It's a bit subtle - so you may have to repeat the scene a couple of times to see it. Also - you are most likely to see it in a purely light-controlled (dark!) room and while in the brighter projector modes like Dynamic and Normal. It's much less noticeable in Cinema 1, 2 modes. I think a little bit of VB is acceptable. At least I have learned to accept it.

Originally posted by bakpakva
Is anyone using the color management options? I either missed the discussion on here about it, or no one really cares?

I tried. My picture ended up looking like it was through one of those red code finder filters. I quickly reset it. I can't figure out exactly how the feature works.

Has anyone used the 700 with a PC yet?

My 700u is on order and should be (fingers crossed) arriving this week.
I plan on using the PJ primarily for DVD watching and the occasional XBOX frag fest, but I will on occasion kick back and web-surf on the big screen.

On my last projector I sometimes noticed that the SDE could actually help define screen text incredibly sharply. Does the reduction of SDE on the 700u translate to blurry or poorly defined screen text when used as a monitor?

Thanks in advance,
Obio

slicksnail - you and i are somewhat in the same boat. i just received mine today and will set it up when i get home but i have a toshiba hdtv and will be using the panny 700 for sports/movies. i'm sure, even with some windows open, it'll be just fine with me. thanks for the frank review and i think i'll be sharing the same feelings.

sometimes getting into too much detail is, well, too much.


Originally posted by Slicksnail
I received my AE700 on monday and I've had a couple of days to play with it at this point. Keep in mind that I'm a complete newb and this is my first projector. I am by no means a videophile. I just really enjoy a big screen.

I bought the AE700 as an upgrade to my 50" Mitsubishi Gold Series 4:3 standard def television for movie viewing, some TV viewing and some PS2 gaming.

I have placed my projector on top of my audio/video cabinet in the back of my viewing room about 20 feet back from the screen. Setup was a complete breeze. I plugged my PS2 into my receiver via S-Video. I plugged my crappy $50 Daewoo DVD player into my receiver via S-Video and I plugged my HD cable (just installed yesterday) into the component input on the AE700. The PS2 and the DVD player can be switched back and forth via the receiver which is plugged into the projector.

The room where the projector is contained is an unfinished basement with cinder block walls and an open ceiling. The projector is shining onto a Dalite 120" class C matte white 16:9 screen.

The DVD's that I recall viewing to some extent were LOTR2, Goldmember, Jeff Buckleys Grace DVD (from the new release of the Grace record), Mason Jennings "Use Your Van" DVD (yes, I like music), Castaway and some other stuff. They all looked darn great with factory settings on the projector. I tended to like the "dynamic" mode the mose with a slight blue brightness tweak to about +2. It probably looks like crap to a real videophile, but it suits my eyes just fine. I found myself switching between different modes for different sources (TV, PS2 or DVD), but using Dynamic the most with the slight blue brightness tweak.

The colors in Goldmember looked awesome to me. I thought it looked crisper and clearer than my 5 y/o Mitsubishi (which, by the way, costed me about $200 more than this projector and screen). Contrast was great to my eye. Blacks are not "true black", but it's black enough for me. I thought the picture, contrast and brightness were fantastic.

When the cable guy came by yesterday and installed the HD cable he commented on how great the picture looked and this was during the day with 4 windows allowing sunlight into the room and a 60W bulb on in the viewing room. Sure, the color was a bit washed out, but it was viewable to me and under the circumstances we both thought it looked great. He had just purchased a 65" Sony 16:9 RPTV and he thought the picture (with the lights out) on the AE700 was better than his new Sony. He was a bit jealous and miffed that he paid twice as much for his new Sony RPTV than I did for the AE700.

HD cable looked amazing on the 1080i stations and the 720p stations. In fact regular cable didn't even look THAT bad, but there is definately a HUGE jump in picture quality on the HD stations. I was impressed at how good the regular and digital cable stations looked though at the size they were projected. Again, I think they were better than my 50" Mitsu.

I played GTA: San Andreas a bit on the projector (and watched my brother play quite a bit last night) and it's a little bigger than it needs to be. It was surprisingly good though. I didn't expect much out of the PS2, but the projector performed nicely with it. Much better than I expected. Actually much MUCH better.

I have to bring up HDTV again, because this is my first HD capable TV and I was just amazed with it. It's so good that I find myself watching the most uninteresting shows just because of the "wow" factor with the clarity and the size of the screen. At night with the lights off in pure darkness it is a truely amazing experience.

I see no vertical banding in the picture, but I do see an occasional unidentified artifact. It's nothing that discracts me from the viewing experience. I have noticed a flash of SDE maybe twice on very bright white portions of the screen, but seriously. SDE on this projector is a non-issue. SDE is something that I was really worried about when buying an LCD projector and I literally have to be 12 inches from the screen before I can normally see any sort of pixelation.

I am amazed with the performance with this projector, but keep in mind that I've only seen maybe 3-4 projectors in action. I was not impressed with the ones that I had seen at Ultimate Electronics (probably due to their setup in the store) and I was not impressed with the 1 LCD projector I saw for sale for $4000 at a botique or their $12K Barco DLP projector. I saw alot of artifacts on all of those. I very rarely see artifacts on my AE700.

Words can't explain my sheer joy with this projector.

Slicksnail

I am currently trying to use my HTPC with the 700, but am having great difficulty getting the 700 to sync up with my PC. I'm running it from the secondary PCI output of my ATI 9600, through the MyHD PCI daughter card, and a DVI to HDMI cable to the 700. For the most part, all I get when I change to the HDMI input is a screen of red/blue/green horizontal lines with a small rectangle in the upper left where an after image from the composite input is frozen. I have updated all drivers, including the .NET version of the ATI Catalyst Control Center, using the latest MyHD driver and software.
In an earlier post, I was advised that the PC is turning the 700 into the primary monitor. That is confirmed, and I can only avoid it by plugging in the DVI-HDMI cable after the PC has been turned on but before the 700 has been turned on. (Yes, I know that's a bad idea, but I get a black screen on my analog monitor otherwise.) Going into the Control Center, I am then able to detect the 700, and all the resolutions and refresh rates are fine. It even calls it AE-700. I tried the clone mode, but that produced nothing, not allowing the correct refresh or resolution choices - and can't force them either.
For about 30 minutes this morning, right after powering both PC and 700 up, I was able to get everything sync'd and was watching a little HDTV through the MyHD card. Life was good. Then the 700 froze, and has not resync'd no matter what I try. I went into the Menu options on the 700, and the Picture mode is being reported correctly as 750 (1280x720, 60Hz).
Any help? This connection is the main input for everything I have been planning. The composite is nice, but PQ just doesn't cut it from a SD source and low end DVD player.

D4 is another input that accepts up to 750p. If you needed to connect another source, you could . I think if I had to connect voom, I would add it with a dvi-d4 adapter.

At first I lumped the "VB gets worse with standby" reports into the same category as the "monster DVI cable eliminates VB" or "my UPS/super power cord improves PQ" (ie, well-meaning but not too, uh, experienced) reports, but then I had an insight that made me think twice.

LCD devices are highly susceptible to damage from DC voltage being applied to them, either in the form of DC like you'd get from a battery, or from more complex sources like a DC bias superimposed on an otherwise normal looking AC drive. It's possible, for example, that the standby mode of the projector improperly kills one of the driver clocks but leaves the panel output drivers enabled which ends up applying a DC compnent to the panels. Or that there is a sneak current path with the drivers off that slighly DC biases the panels. This type of damage could be permanent or transient, DC on LCD panels does nasty things like break down the LC fluid or cause migration (plating) of the electrode materials.

Anabil -- would a good power conditioner prevent this damage or is the only answer to kill the main?

Killing the main power is a pretty tall order for those planning on a ceiling mount. (Keeping a ladder in the middle of my HT would sort of suck).

cpc, my DVD player is a Denon 1600 and I am using component cables right now, and will probably also get HDMI for HD. As for the image being sharper, it is noticeably sharper/crisper from where I sit (about 13-14 ft). The funny thing is that when I get closer to the screen, it doesn't appear all that sharper/crisper than the 100 (from what I can recall as I'm too lazy to do a side-by-side). I think the SDE on the 100 made the image seem sharper up close (optical illusion or mind game of some sort, I guess). That, or the whole whatever-the-name-is-of-that-technology-that-reduces-SDE makes the 700's image seem defocused when you stick your face up close to the wall. (We seem to be doing a lot of that at our house.)

cliffk3 , we have the 700 sitting at the same distance as our old 100 (about 13-14 ft), though by the time I ceiling mount the 700, it will probably be more like 15-16 ft.

[Edited to add -- BTW, cliff, I also have heard the clicking noise when I turn on the PJ. I don't know what it is but I surely didn't have that noise on my 100 . . .]

I've gotta read through the many posts in this thread that I've skipped in the past week or so to find out more tips/tricks for setting up this puppy, then hopefully I can give a better review of this PJ from a novice's point of view.

On the VB issue. I am 100% sure it is there I can easily reproduce it. With a movie just go to a bright solid color scene, like sky, water, fog, etc...
OR
Go to the service menu and run the test screens...As you switch through them you will get to 1 paticuluar gray screen, this gray screen shows all the VB all the way across the screen.
I also get "flickering" on several of the test patterns.

Is this normal?

I have done the flicker tweaks 26B 26E 29G and that works but is there anything I can do to help elminate further the VB?

Another on the grid test screen, I see a slight blue shadow on the right side, none in the middle and a green one on the left. Is this normal?


Thanks!

Jordan "AstroCat"

Couldn't you simply wire the power source of the projector to a switch somewhere in the room and kill the main power by simply flipping the switch rather than standing on a ladder and powering it off at the projector...

Or do the same with a surge protector and flip the power off at the surge protector.

reap

The verdict is still out on whether the recurring VB seen after the standby mode is a manufactured problem or a problem that would go away after a break-in period. Some guys on the UK avforums.com have the same problem which gets better as time passes. VB is more apparent upon powerup but disappears as the projector warms up.
So don't do any drastic just yet. Give it some time. If the problem still exist after 100hrs, or so, grab your bat and go down to the dealer.

http://world.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=de_en&trurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.cine4home.de%2findex.htm


Here's a very interesting and technical test of the panny 700.
The only real problem of this "almost perfect for it's category" projector seems to be the "dual border" one.

Anyone that has already tried the 700 at home has found this issue to be real?

I have tried in this really huge amount of posts with no result .

Please let us know something about , it seems to be a very difficult problem to resolve, whatever source you use.

Like so many on this thread, I finally took the plunge. Im just waiting for my AE700 to arrive from VA (first projector). It should be here by Friday. I have the Yamaha RX-V2400 receiver and I suspect that I will get the Bravo D2 as I have read a couple of good review on the unit.

M question is, do I run a DVI-D to DVI-D cable from the Bravo D2 to the RX-V2400 and then run a DVI-D to HDMI cable to the projector? Any help would be great.

Thanks!

Quite a few people have noticed the sharpneSs not being as good as the previous Panasonic projectors. Why is that?

Hyp3r

If you're referring to the edge enhancements on their sharpness pattern, this may be due to their signal source. I had a toshiba 5109 dvd player that did exactly that. My Denon 5900 doesn't.

Also, be mindful that unless your content is primarily made up of test patterns, (that's a joke) then you should take the test with a grain of salt.

Originally posted by JimP
Hyp3r

If you're referring to the edge enhancements on their sharpness pattern, this may be due to their signal source. I had a toshiba 5109 dvd player that did exactly that. My Denon 5900 doesn't.

Also, be mindful that unless your content is primarily made up of test patterns, (that's a joke) then you should take the test with a grain of salt.

Did you see what kind of technical test and color measuring are these German guys doing?
I can hardly believe they're using a ****** source to feed their projectors, and then spend hours on color calibration and gamma diagrams..
dont' u think?

And this kind of problem is present also with 720p passing on dvi/hdmi ..
I dont' usually look at calibration screens, but i've read in another forum that is a very annoying problem with well detailed objects like it can be a cartoon..
Any "real world" test please?

Originally posted by obio
Anabil -- would a good power conditioner prevent this damage or is the only answer to kill the main?

The projector has a switching power supply, a good/bad or no power conditioner won't effect it one whit. The only benefit to a UPS or power conditioner for a projector would be for the benefit of the bulb (which might not have a tightly-regulated supply).

kmoyers,
_____________________________________________________
My question is, do I run a DVI-D to DVI-D cable from the Bravo D2 to the RX-V2400 and then run a DVI-D to HDMI cable to the projector? Any help would be great.
_____________________________________________________

I'm almost positive that the RX-V2400 can't switch HDMI (digital) signals, so you'll have to go directly from the Bravo to the Panny, then run a parallel component cable from the 2400 to the Panny for your analog signals.

Will

I can't imagine having a problem with having to switch off your projector. There must be some way to insert a switch. I have a power bar. I control it with my foot. I never leave my 200 powered when its off. Also, with the idea in mind that lens shift and the design of the projection, I can't picture the projector being high enough that you'd need to use a step unless your ceiling is really high, but then your screen would also be really high. I guess everyone's setup is different. Perhaps I'll leave my 200 on standby overnight some time and try it the next day out of curiosity.

1080i / 720p inputs

Can I input 1080i /720p to the AE700 via Component, or do I have to use the HDMI input ?

2) Assuming it can accept 1080i/720p on both, would I expect to see any noticeable difference in image quality between HDMI and Component.

I will need to run about a 15m cable to the projector so want to get the best image quality I can. I plan to pair it with the S97 DVD player (which upscales to 720p/1080i).


Thanks

I never use the hard switch to turn off my 300U. It's been in Standby for over a year. No VB here.

Add me to the list of those who have taken the plunge and ordered a 700 from VA. It should be here, knock-on-wood, by Saturday. I'll try post some direct screenshots comparing it with my L300U, for those who are still considering the upgrade.

The feature that finally pushed me over the edge was, of all things, the flexibility of placement that the lens shift and the zoom offers. Now, instead of having the projector sitting on a half wall directly behind my head, tilted downward and keystone corrected to get the image square on the screeen, I can move it to a shelf in the back of the room and use lens shift and zoom to hit the screen squarely. This will go a loooong way toward WAF. The increased CR, blacker blacks, higher resolution, higher lumens, HDCP compliant DVI, longer bulb life, etc. - all of this is just GRAVY!!!!!!!!!!!!

-tony

p.s. The other thing that put me over the edge: the glorious, spectacular mood that I'm in today after W won re-election by earning more votes than any presidential candidate in our nation's history. This projector order, my friends, was consumer confidence in action.

I am pretty sure the conclusion of all of the 300u and 500u threads on VB was that if you don't see it you aren't looking hard enough, and to stop looking. Saying it isn't there is blissful ignorance, not objective truth. I'm not buying a 700 until I can see one with my own eyes, and based on this thread I am about 95% positive I'll see the same VB problems in it (and decide not to buy)

Originally posted by patja
I am pretty sure the conclusion of all of the 300u and 500u threads on VB was that if you don't see it you aren't looking hard enough, and to stop looking. Saying it isn't there is blissful ignorance, not objective truth. I'm not buying a 700 until I can see one with my own eyes, and based on this thread I am about 95% positive I'll see the same VB problems in it (and decide not to buy)

Good to hear that you know what I see! ;)

Originally posted by mikeyc
HMenke: what screen are you using?

I have a DIY screen using a Roc-lon "Budget Blackout Cloth" from Jo-Ann Fabrics. I am projecting on the rubber (smooth) side. It is basically a matte white screen with gain of 1.0. The screen texture is much smaller than the visible SDE. Closeup of screen attached.

I got this request from a Panasonic engineer via from projectorpeople:

I spoke to an engineer @ Panasonic and he was wondering if it would be possible for you to provide us with a digital picture of the banding. Please let me know if you are able to provide us with this

To get such a picture, I would have to leave my unit in standby mode all night. I'm a little reluctant to play with this fire! What if the VB comes back and won't go away?

Originally posted by xboxfan
I notice the exhaust grills angle away from the lens, so I was hoping this combined with setting it back from the glass a bit would do the trick.

You could also consider getting a small fan - either a 12v computer fan, or Radio Crack sells a 120v computer-sized fan, and mounting that in a hole in your shelf to either blow the stream of air away from the projector, or to suck the air from in front of the projector and away.

I wonder if anybody would be interested in a AE700 power buy with a forum sponsor after the first of the year, assuming the supply catches up with demand by then?

Originally posted by patja
I am pretty sure the conclusion of all of the 300u and 500u threads on VB was that if you don't see it you aren't looking hard enough, and to stop looking. Saying it isn't there is blissful ignorance, not objective truth. I'm not buying a 700 until I can see one with my own eyes, and based on this thread I am about 95% positive I'll see the same VB problems in it (and decide not to buy)

I will wait to see someone post a picture of the 700 with VB. Until then, I am very much enjoying my ignorant bliss.

Hey Pancho, I would be interested!

The SDE that I am seeing is definitely dynamic in nature. It is not present when the object on screen is stationary in the frame. I see it when the object is moving in the frame. If I pause the DVD player or Freeze using the PJ remote, the SDE goes away with a distinct "zap" feeling as if the SmoothScreen circuitry suddenly "locked" onto it. Like: there it is...there it is...Pause>poof! Gone. The SmoothScreen doesn't seem to operate when the object is moving. If this was an artifact of my DIY BOC screen, wouldn't it be there under static and dynamic conditions?

Here is a perfect scene to check what I am talking about. Star Wars E2 AOC, Chapter 28, 66:37. Obi-wan's spacecraft is detaching from its "mothership" and there is a bright yellow planet in the background. The SDE appears all across the bright yellow area of the planet. Screen shot attached.

and here is a closeup of the area of "dynamic SDE" in the sample image. There is no SDE visible in this image because it disappears in Pause mode.

Can anyone give me a good reason (other than cost/hassle of return shipping for warranty repairs and some projector menu items in Japanese) for buying the American version vs. importing the Japanese version? I'm buying this week. Thanks!

daflea - the main menu of Japanese AE-700 is in Japanese so might want to consider this. Service menu is mostly in English.

HMenke

I believe your seeing the scan-line artifact that plagues Panasonic PJ with smooth screen. In the past this was called the Peek-a-boo Screen Door. This was present in the 300u and 500u.

Originally posted by HMenke
and here is a closeup of the area of "dynamic SDE" in the sample image. There is no SDE visible in this image because it disappears in Pause mode.

What is the projector's Zoom at?

All due respect, SmoothScreen -- of course -- operates when the object is moving. What's happening is that you are able to see the pixel grid anyway.

Mark

Originally posted by bapenguin
What is the projector's Zoom at?

1.34x

Originally posted by rogo
All due respect, SmoothScreen -- of course -- operates when the object is moving. What's happening is that you are able to see the pixel grid anyway.

So with SmoothScreen the pixel grid is still visible, but only under dynamic conditions? So am I confusing pixel grid with SDE? Because it looks like a very fine screen mesh to me. If I can see the grid, then is the SmoothScreen not 100% effective?

Originally posted by Monkey_Man
HMenke

I believe your seeing the scan-line artifact that plagues Panasonic PJ with smooth screen. In the past this was called the Peek-a-boo Screen Door. This was present in the 300u and 500u.

I think you are onto something here, if "Peak-a-boo" means now you see it, now you don't.

HMenke

That's right. This has been going on for years. I have owned the 300u and the 500u. They both did but it was reduced on the 500u do to the pixel count.

It not the screen door your seeing it's brief scan lines. Thats why you can't see it on a paused image.

Many other old panasonic owners would chim in and say the same thing if this wasnt in a stupid monster thread.

Originally posted by Monkey_Man
HMenke

That's right. This has been going on for years. I have owned the 300u and the 500u. They both did but it was reduced on the 500u do to the pixel count.

It not the screen door your seeing it's brief scan lines. Thats why you can't see it on a paused image.

Many other old panasonic owners would chim in and say the same thing if this wasnt in a stupid monster thread.

Thanks, Monkey_Man, the more I look at it the more I think you have nailed the cause.

Well, projector was delivered today. Unfortunately I wasn't home so they'll be bringing it tomorrow and I'll make sure someone is here. The worst part is that I'm not ready for it. I'm finishing my wiring Friday and installing my chair rail. My receiver will hopefully also be here on Friday. My carpet is getting installed Saturday and hopefully I can put in my baseboards and put up my screen on Sunday (along with trying to hook everything up). My seats are getting delivered on Monday, and monday evening I'm going out of town on business for the rest of the week. My 7 day test period will probably elapse before I even have a chance to take it out of the box. Sometimes working for a living is just not worth it.



Stew

Yep. Its the infamous "peak-a-boo scanlines", a vertical motion artifact.

When you see it, try to check your flicker settings. They may be off. Sometimes I see it on my 200, and sometimes I don't. Have you tried making sure your flicker settings are ok and have you tried defocussing?

BTW, the smooth screen kinda makes the peak-a-boo more noticable, but it does not cause it. Since smooth screen makes a smooth image, when the peak-a-boo appears, its noticable because it stands out. Smooth screen is NOT electronic. Someone posted a picture early. Really simply, its a lens that sort of changes the focus of the projected image. This is why I believe its un-necessary. If the Panasonic 300/500 and 700 did not have smooth screen, a simple defocus would have essentially the same effect at eliminating screen door, AND it has the added benefit of being personally tweakable. You could try altering the focus of your 700 to see it helps. Defocus it ever so slightly. As I've said before, I saw rampant peak-a-boo's on a Sanyo Z1 (960 x 540 resolution without smooth screen) and all it took was a slight defocus and the peak-a-boo's vanished completely. On my 200 I rarely see them, but sometimes, there they are and they bug me. Your only defence against them is tweaking the following:

1) Flicker tweak (less flicker = less peak-a-boo along with less VB)
2) Defocus (the right amount of defocus can blurr the peak-a-boo, making it vanish. You don't necessarily need to make the picture un-sharp, but with a smooth screen PJ, softness due to defocussing is a risk.
3) Seating distance - Sitting farther away usually means peak-a-boo's will be less visible. (1.75x screen width away or farther usually eliminates them)

and possibly the sharpness and other calibration details.

It is a sort of an optical illusion. Its probably a result of an interaction between de-interlacing and the lcd pixel refresh rates or something like that. Pausing a scene makes them vanish, so you need to use moving film from a dvd in order to tweak it. Find a scene where you see them and set up your dvd player in repeat mode to repeat the scene. Make sure your flicker tweak is spot on and then adjust away with fine tuning the focus, preferably with a friend controlling defocuss while you sit in your viewing spot. Good luck.

:)

Originally posted by HMenke
The SDE that I am seeing is definitely dynamic in nature. It is not present when the object on screen is stationary in the frame. I see it when the object is moving in the frame. If I pause the DVD player or Freeze using the PJ remote, the SDE goes away with a distinct "zap" feeling as if the SmoothScreen circuitry suddenly "locked" onto it. Like: there it is...there it is...Pause>poof! Gone. The SmoothScreen doesn't seem to operate when the object is moving. If this was an artifact of my DIY BOC screen, wouldn't it be there under static and dynamic conditions?

Here is a perfect scene to check what I am talking about. Star Wars E2 AOC, Chapter 28, 66:37. Obi-wan's spacecraft is detaching from its "mothership" and there is a bright yellow planet in the background. The SDE appears all across the bright yellow area of the planet. Screen shot attached.

This is one of my favorite scenes in this film and I've screened it for friends multiple times over and over during the last year on my 500. I just watched this scene 6 times in a row on my 700 - and I simply don't see any SDE or peek-a-boo scan lines. Don't know what to tell you.

BUT - MORE IMPORTANTLY - AFTER HOURS OF TESTING AND TRYING DIFFERENT THINGS - I FINALLY FOUND A FIX FOR MY VB PROBLEM ON MY NEW 700. WILL POST TOMORROW A.M.!

Originally posted by John Ballentine

BUT - MORE IMPORTANTLY - AFTER HOURS OF TESTING AND TRYING DIFFERENT THINGS - I FINALLY FOUND A FIX FOR MY VB PROBLEM ON MY NEW 700. WILL POST TOMORROW A.M.!


Tease.




Stew

The only point on which my SE20H beats the newly installed AE700U is light output.

The rest is no contest.

I've seen a lot of reviews from first time PJ owners. Let me pontificate as an upgrader.

VB: very very slight. Compared to the SE20HD it is non existant.

Screen Door: I don't know how to say this politely. Those of you who think this is an issue with this projector are smokin' something. This unit has less screen door than my buddies HD2 based DWIN TV3. AFAIK "smoothvision" is an analog optical process, not digital, so it should not come and go as another poster is seeing, that has got to be something else. The smoothvision technology works.

Dead Pixels: None.

Fixed Pixel Noise: Extrememly mild. If you watch test patterns all day you might see it. Compared to the SE20HD it's perfection.

On the topic of light output, while not a torch like the SE20HD it is fine for my setting, which surprised me. Fully watchable with the lamp on the end-table on.

Black levels: simply put, awesome. Again I find them easily in the league of the only DLPs I've spent a lot of time with: the TV3 and the SP7205. They feel very movie theater like (which is not nearly as good as CRTs). They are NOT CRT black, but are very very good and WAY better than the SE20HD. I'm using this in a DaLite DaMat High Contrast .8 gain gray screen. The blacks are so good I may move to the 1.1 gain gray.

Noise levels: OMG. Compared to the SE20HD (aka: rocket motor) this thing is quiet as a mouse. Even during quiet scenes it is unobtrusive. This is my favorite feature to be honest. :-)

WAF: she likes it. PIcture looks good, quiet. She liked the SE20HD as well, but appreciates the smaller form factor and the lack of a need for a big honkin hush box.

Over all: the image it throws is outstanding. If this is the pinnacle of what can be done with the D4 panels then I eagerly look forward to what can be accomplished with the D5 stuff late next year.

The video processor in this unit is quite good. I have seen some combing on scene transitions with 720p content that is converted to 1080i by the cable box. I think this is what people are calling "peek aboo scanlines", so it looks like it cannot lock cadence super fast, but it does appear to be doing pulldown on 1080i.

HTPC interop. This is the one place I am not super pleased. It is WAY better than the SE20HD. Plug and play even. But there is definitly some croping going on with the HDMI input and I know somewhere in the huge thread someone has posted more in detail about it. Never the less the image from the HTPC is still stunning.

Tweakability: with gains and bias in the user menus getting to track gray scale should be much easier. I applaud Panasonic for this. I have not tried the flciker settings in the service menu.

Put simply the AE700U is the best value in projectors today. I cannot imagine a unit on the market with a price : performance ratio that even approaches this product. I think anyone who purchases this projector is getting a great deal and I think Panasonic is going to sell truck loads of the things.

-Ian

P.S. And I haven't even done the Avia tweaks yet.

BUT - MORE IMPORTANTLY - AFTER HOURS OF TESTING AND TRYING DIFFERENT THINGS - I FINALLY FOUND A FIX FOR MY VB PROBLEM ON MY NEW 700. WILL POST TOMORROW A.M.!

Major tease.

Let's all hope you don't get crushed by a meteorite while sleeping in your bed tonight...

-tony

Here is a 52" X 92" image from a AE700 that I received this evening projected above my 60" Sony GWIII.

The wall is a medium tan, so the image appears darker. Exposure was based on the projector's image, not the GWIII.

I'm trying to work out a way to use GWIII in daytime and when I don't want to go large and to use the projector for movies in the evening.

I had figured out a way to use a pull down screen in front of the TV such that it didn't block the center channel speaker.(use stands on each end of the screen case. CC speaker is below TV). Now that I've played around with the projector's zoom a little bit, I really like an even larger size. Just have to figure out how I'm going to do this.

Anyway, here's the attachment

Thanks for the post Ian. Nice to see a discrimating, informed non-newbie who is so pleased with this projector. I'll post my L300U -> AE700 thoughts next week. I hope I'm as positive about the upgrade as you have been.

-tony

My 700 arrived from VA earlier today. I've had it on pre-order since mid September. I attached it to my PC with a 50 foot VGA cable. The only thing I was not pleased with was the misaligned and cropped image. I paid for 921,600 pixels. That's how many I expected to see. In order to get them, I used a combination of the Projector's "Position" setting in the menu and the "Advanced Timing" section of my video card's menu. By adjusting the "Sync width" in the "Horizontal pixels" and the "Vertical lines" to 160 and 4 respectively, I was able to make every pixel viewable. To aid in the adjustment, I created a 1280x720 black gif with a one pixel white border.

D4 is the local Japanese version of component input. This kind of cable is available in Japan as well as other Asia countries, probably not in U.S. n Europe.


Originally posted by zxlr8
I got a japenese Ae700 and I have an input not on the others. It is a D4 input. It looks simlar to an HDMI input. It is probably explained in my manual, but I quit reading Japenese when I grew up. j/k. Wierd. Also for those having color uniformity problems, you can set colors per a zone on the screen through color managemant. That is definitely cool.

Originally posted by anabil
The projector has a switching power supply, a good/bad or no power conditioner won't effect it one whit. The only benefit to a UPS or power conditioner for a projector would be for the benefit of the bulb (which might not have a tightly-regulated supply).

Hey, yet another person who hasn't got enough cash to experiment with and actually try products before they make judgements. Hmm... come to think of it, all you would have to do is search really. It's already been confirmed by quite a few different audiophile/videophile reviewers that clean, regulated power does make a noticeable difference in video and audio quality. Try searching for PS Audio PowerPlant reviews. I believe there are some reviews on the HomeTheaterHifi site. In fact I suppose you could go to PS Audio's site because they keep track of all the magazine reviews of their products.

As for the switchig power supply in the projector, a)it's as simple and low cost/quality as they can make it and b)there are no filters for harmonics, EMI and RFI interference.

The extreme ends for equipment prices don't benefit as much though since low end equipment might be too crappy to show any difference (all the "my desktop mini hifi doesn't sound any different withi/without this") and high end equipment makers tend to spend more money making sure their equipment, including PS's, are optimized.

As for whether it makes a differnce with VB after leaving it on standby. I'm not sure. After the first morning seeing the VB from leaving it on standby. Even after connecting it to my sola S4700, I've tried not to leave it on standby overnight again.

Got my 700 from Visual Apex at 3:30 this afternoon. As this is my first projector, I ran out to get a 54x96" sheet of blackout cloth to pin up and use for testing out the image. I wanted to get a good sense of how big I could/should go before purchasing a real screen.

Initially it looked good in terms of brightness and screendoor, but colors looked a little weird to me and I was seeing a lot of aliasing and what looked like compression artifacts. Being a newbie, I wondered if I was just seeing detail that I'd never been able to see before on my 32" CRT.

In the end, it was bogus--my DVD was set up to output 4:3, and the Panasonic was helpfully zooming it to fit the screen, so I was seeing some scaling artifacts that looked like crap. I eventually figured out how to get my circa 1998 Toshiba DVD player to output 16:9, and everything instantly looked tons better.

I also switched over to Cinema 3 and thought the color looked quite a bit nicer. I'm also running on low lamp because I honestly don't need the extra brightness and I like how quiet it is on low.

I'm running it over S-Video right now, too, so I expect I will be able to improve the picture further by switching to component or buying an HDMI player.

Haven't seen any vertical banding yet. Blacks aren't super low but I honestly don't care.

I'm totally pleased with my purchase--now I need to get to where I understand the art of color tweaking enough that I can get the most out of it. Oh, and also I need to spend about four hours moving my A/V shelves and rewiring my speakers so I can actually get audio with my amazing picture.

Originally posted by djbluemax1
Hey, yet another person who hasn't got enough cash to experiment with and actually try products before they make judgements. Hmm... come to think of it, all you would have to do is search really. It's already been confirmed by quite a few different audiophile/videophile reviewers that clean, regulated power does make a noticeable difference in video and audio quality. Try searching for PS Audio PowerPlant reviews. I believe there are some reviews on the HomeTheaterHifi site. In fact I suppose you could go to PS Audio's site because they keep track of all the magazine reviews of their products.

As for the switchig power supply in the projector, a)it's as simple and low cost/quality as they can make it and b)there are no filters for harmonics, EMI and RFI interference.

The extreme ends for equipment prices don't benefit as much though since low end equipment might be too crappy to show any difference (all the "my desktop mini hifi doesn't sound any different withi/without this") and high end equipment makers tend to spend more money making sure their equipment, including PS's, are optimized.

As for whether it makes a differnce with VB after leaving it on standby. I'm not sure. After the first morning seeing the VB from leaving it on standby. Even after connecting it to my sola S4700, I've tried not to leave it on standby overnight again.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say, "another person who hasn't got enough cash to experiment"? Huh? I own an AE700. I certainly have UPS's, power conditioners, and even a nice electrostaticly sheilded isolation transformer. All of my gear is behind surge supressors, but that's it (with the exception of my DVR921, which is behind a UPS) .

Yes, you can find plenty of people suggesting that expensive power cords, UPS's, power conditioners, green felt tip markers and mercury-filled speaker wire are the bees knees and will do everything from "open up the soundstange" to, I guess, prevent VB.

I'm an EE, if I thought there would be some benefit to plugging my projector or audio equipment into a UPS or power conditioner, I would. As for there being no filters for "harmonics, EMI and RFI interference" in the projector, _of course there are_. It's called a power supply. That's what it does.

As for plugging your projector into a UPS, it's not pointless, it might help protect the bulb. It's certainly not going to improve the picture. Sorry.

I have been noticing (mostly in video games) a funny kind of moire effect (sort of diamonds in an array of 45 degree angles) in solid areas when they are moving. When they images stops moving, the effect disappears entirely.

What is this?

Thanks.

"If I can see the grid, then is the SmoothScreen not 100% effective?"

That's correct, unfortunately. It's a bit of a trick and it's not 100% effective as a result. The grid is always there and the SmoothScreen usually hides it.

Originally posted by tbacos
Major tease.

Let's all hope you don't get crushed by a meteorite while sleeping in your bed tonight...

-tony

Exactly. Remember what happened in the book Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy?

Originally posted by cpc
Yep. Its the infamous "peak-a-boo scanlines", a vertical motion artifact.

Another great insight, cpc! I had not realized until you said it that the artifact appears when the motion is vertical. Now we're getting somewhere!

Thanks for you great post. I have saved it to my hard drive and put a printed copy in my HT room for reference. I am going to work on this using your tweaks and report back how it goes.

Originally posted by ianken
Screen Door: I don't know how to say this politely. Those of you who think this is an issue with this projector are smokin' something. This unit has less screen door than my buddies HD2 based DWIN TV3. AFAIK "smoothvision" is an analog optical process, not digital, so it should not coer and go as another poster is seeing, that has got to be something else. The smoothvision technology works.

The video processor in this unit is quite good. I have seen some combing on scene transitions with 720p content that is converted to 1080i by the cable box. I think this is what people are calling "peek aboo scanlines", so it looks like it cannot lock cadence super fast, but it does appear to be doing pulldown on 1080i.

This was very polite - and I have decided to give up the stuff! :) You are right, others have pointed out that what I called "Dynamic SDE" is actually a vertical scan line artifact. I am running 480p component out of my DVD player. Do you think I might get some improvement with 480i by letting the PJ handling the doubling/scaling duties?

Why dont' you ask Projectorpeople to open a box, turn it on during the day and leave it on standby mode overnight. That should duplicate the VB problem and they'll see exactly what we see.

Originally posted by HMenke
I got this request from a Panasonic engineer via from projectorpeople:

To get such a picture, I would have to leave my unit in standby mode all night. I'm a little reluctant to play with this fire! What if the VB comes back and won't go away?