Ok, with the announcement of the Z3 there's going to be a lot of people wanting to comment. This is the official Z3 thread. Don't start new ones. DO NOT POST PRICING. DO NOT POST DEALERS. DO NOT ASK FOR OR PROMISE PMs regarding dealers, pricing, etc; You've been warned.

Old link:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=444556

Where should we talk about the new Z1X? I want to trash it!

Staying on topic, the Z3 Japanese MSRP is quite a bit higher than the Panny AE700.

regards,

Li On

Industry top class * 4 contrast ratio 2000:1 * 5 is actualized with the lens built-in iris and reacting image mode and the rationalization etc. of the high contrast optical system which where compensates the dispersion of lamp lightthe effectis high in contrastimprovementof ƒ??[ƒ‰ƒCƒg, the image which has the depth which is rich in gradation reproducibility can be enjoyed.

The quote taken from the link supplied in the closed thread: Sanyo Z3-info (http://www.sanyo.co.jp/koho/hypertext4/0409news-j/0910-1.html)

Seems to have the same iris modulation technology as Panasonic and Sony. I'm not that familiar with the Z2 so someone else will have to list what differences there are to the Z3.

Edit: sorry, the link is in japanese, you need to babelfish it yourselves

Hey Madpoet. Not to be an ass here, but I don't really understand this forum at times. Why is it that the display forum is divided into sub-categories determined by price yet it is absolutely taboo to quote them???

I would think that quoting a MSRP would just make sense. With the introduction of a new projector (in this case Z3). I, as a consumer would like to know not only the stats and how it compares to it's predecessors and competition but also at what cost.

I love this forum and get so much information here. I know it is not too hard to google a price...But why...oh why can't MSRP's be quoted?

Just my early, friday morning rant. Some rules are just made to be broken.

Um... you can quote MSRP...

What is the z1x and why does the great panny 200 man himself want to trash it? Oh I forgot....he trashes everything unless it is his beloved panny 200. My bad son

Adding the images to the official thread...


http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20040910/sanyo01.jpg http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20040910/sanyo02.jpg http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20040910/sanyo09.jpg

Rob, not the place. Scotty, MSRP is the only price discussion we do allow. What we don't allow is street price, or listing specific dealers and specific prices (even if that dealer is only selling it at MSRP). The posting guidelines spell it out pretty clearly.

Madpoet, What happened to the "There can be only one" part :) :) :)

Ok, looks like our beloved moderator don't care about the Z1X so I'm starting a thread to trash it! :D

regards,

Li On

Well poo on me then....this was all I saw in bold...DO NOT POST PRICING. DO NOT POST DEALERS. DO NOT ASK FOR OR PROMISE PMs regarding dealers, pricing, etc; You've been warned.

scotty144

as someone who registerd over 2 years ago and with almost 300 posts, you should have known madpoet was referring to street prices. Even if you didn't read the forum rules, with your history, you should have known that MSRP is allowed.

emote: reaper poos on you

Way to jump on a guy when they are down....

Seems to have the same iris modulation technology as Panasonic and Sony. I'm not that familiar with the Z2 so someone else will have to list what differences there are to the Z3.


No from what I understand, the Iris is motorized and can be adjusted with the remote in 64 steps. But it there is no automatic mode for the Iris, just for the lamp.


Regards,
Ekkehart, www.cine4home.de

Originally posted by Cine4Home
No from what I understand, the Iris is motorized and can be adjusted with the remote in 64 steps. But it there is no automatic mode for the Iris, just for the lamp.


That's too bad - guess the specs should read "2000:1 CR**

**with remote"
;)

Don't lose it in the couch.

ted

That's too bad - guess the specs should read "2000:1 CR**

**with remote"


Ha Ha Ha, that was a good one. Well seriously, the Z2 was claimed to have 1300:1. Actually you could reach that number pretty much exactly when you measured black with Iris closed and white with Iris open. Very misleading.


Regards,
Ekkehart

Cine4Home
Is the iris on the z2 close to the lens or close to the lamp?
On the Panasonic in a pdf they show it being close to the lamp to adjust the amount of light that gets separated into red, green and blue later on. Is this different from z2 and possibly z3?

Why do you think it is possible for hs51 to reach/quote 6000:1 compared with ae700 and 2000:1?

Cine4Home
Is the iris on the z2 close to the lens or close to the lamp?
On the Panasonic in a pdf they show it being close to the lamp to adjust the amount of light that gets separated into red, green and blue later on. Is this different from z2 and possibly z3?

Why do you think it is possible for hs51 to reach/quote 6000:1 compared with ae700 and 2000:1?


The Z2 Iris is directly in the lens inside the optic.

The Panasonic Iris is close to the lamp, yes.

Both methodes seem to be effective. Btw. the variable Iris of the Qualia is close to the lamp too.

And about your last question, I have no clue why Sony reaches so much more of a contrast. I guess we will have to wait and open the machine to see what is really going on :)

Regards,
Ekkehart, www.cine4home.de

Originally posted by Cine4Home
No from what I understand, the Iris is motorized and can be adjusted with the remote in 64 steps. But it there is no automatic mode for the Iris, just for the lamp.


Regards,
Ekkehart, www.cine4home.de

OK, maybe I misinterpreted the babelfished translation.

Is it not as simple as Sony stopping down the lamp light output one or two stops more. We are not talking about real 6000:1 cr but are talking about a wide and real time adjusting of lumens output. It makes sense to make deep space black and not dark grey even though the stars shine only 1000 times above the background light level.

Well poo on me then....this was all I saw in bold...DO NOT POST PRICING. DO NOT POST DEALERS. DO NOT ASK FOR OR PROMISE PMs regarding dealers, pricing, etc; You've been warned. Hey Scott! Maybe you should read the forum posting guidelines... MSRP has always been allowed. :)

Just thought that I should gang up on you as well...
Hehehehe... ;)
j/k

Mike

Mike...you bugger. Just wait until you come over here....I'm going to beat you with your own shoe...then 50 lashes with a 3 meter DVI cable....and then I will make you eat your prized Momitsu!!!

Judging by the remote, they've added a second component input... and changed the single DVI input to HDMI and "PC" (?DVI/?VGA).

I'm guessing the "reacting image mode" would be the auto contrast thing the Z2 already does (and most people turn off)... the iris is now powered, rather than manual.

Wonder if "increased contrast" will make much real-world difference.

Interesting, but not earth shaking.

What about the zoom? Is that motorized?

Originally posted by rlindo
What is the z1x...
I second that... what is this new Sanyo PJ? From the model number it sounds like a lower end unit but I'd like to know for sure. Thanks.
-Matt

Li On started a thread about the Z1x already... let's keep this one on topic... Z3

Sounds good.

Originally posted by scotty144
Mike...you bugger. Just wait until you come over here....I'm going to beat you with your own shoe...then 50 lashes with a 3 meter DVI cable....and then I will make you eat your prized Momitsu!!! OUCH! :D

It's happy to see that my original post on Z3 & Z1x announcement now become this "official" thread :D :D :D

Here come more pics :-

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20040910/sanyo19.jpg

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20040910/sanyo18.jpg

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20040910/sanyo12.jpg

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20040910/sanyo06.jpg

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20040910/sanyo21.jpg

Thanks for the great pictures. I know the new Sanyo's will be shown
in Germany at the end of the month. I wonder what other changes have
been made and if the VB problem has been solved.

What is "VB problem" ?

Anyway, here come more pics :-

http://ascii24.com/news/i/hard/article/2004/09/10/images/images750620.jpg

http://ascii24.com/news/i/hard/article/2004/09/10/images/images750625.jpg

http://ascii24.com/news/i/hard/article/2004/09/10/images/images750619.jpg

Many Z2's had a problem with Virtical Banding which one could see on the
screen. VB is seen as small lines on the screen. It is possible through
adjustment to deal with the problem. VB is common in many LCD projectors. If Sanyo is careful in their setup it should not be a problem.
It all depends on how the unit is set up.

So do we have an ETA and an MSRP on this badboy? My thater is looking to be done mid october. It'd be nice to have the latest and greatest.

I'd like to just see some basic stats: lumen levels, contrast, and resolution.

I would assume that they will be priced as follows:

Z1 < Z1x < Z2 < Z3

Does that sound about right?

I guess I should have read the article.

Z1x: (listed for comparison)
964x544 pixels
1000:1 contrast ratio
700 lumen
MSRP 220,000 yen ($1998)
Availability date: Oct 21

Z3:
1280x724 pixels
2000:1 contrast ratio
800 lumen
MSRP 280,000 yen ($2543)
Availability date: Oct 15

I listed the MSRP, since thhe consensus is that it is allowed. If the moderators think I should remove it, I will.

So, it looks to me that they are planning to replace the z1/z2 lines with these instead. I would expect that after the new units come out, the price on the old ones should drop :)

Is the release date for the Z3 (Oct.15th) for Japan or US or both?

Anyone?

Is the release date for the Z3 (Oct.15th) for Japan or US or both?

Judging by last year and the Z2, I recall the Japan release was around Oct and it came to the States around Feb. (Or am I thinking about the AE500?)

Any hope of the Z1x bulbs lasting longer?

Originally posted by DavidVTHokie
Judging by last year and the Z2, I recall the Japan release was around Oct and it came to the States around Feb. (Or am I thinking about the AE500?)

I got my Z2 in December just before Xmas and a bunch of people had theirs before I did so I'm guessing you are thinking of the AE500...... come to think of it I do remember alot of people talking about importing it so I'm pretty positive you are thinking of the AE500

At the following link:
http://www.pipro.de/sanyo/z3prospekt.pdf
the original .pdf brochure in english.

It sounds a bit suspect that nowhere they speak about some, eg. "no vertical banding" when the vb I think was the only real concern about Z2....

The Z3 allows VB adjustment in the user menu. Just like the new Epson Projectors. Don't know how good this will work though...





Regards

Is it called "vertical banding"? Thats kind of funny. Does anyone else find it amussing that a "flaw" is adjustable in the user menu? Yes, I know it seems to be some inherent difficulty with some combination of lcd panel crystal refresh rates and some other technical details, but its still funny that you have it in the user menu. Soon we'll see the focus refered to as the "screendoor" adjuster and the maybe they'll have a "colour non-uniformity" adjustment.

Has anyone heard any more about this pj?
Release date?
Throw distance?

Craig:) :)

Originally posted by suffolk112000
Throw distance?

Craig


in the brochure link from elche99, it says 100" screen from a throw distance of around 3-4 meters (10-13 feet)

can we make this a sticky as info starts pouring in?

This is on projectorcentral.com right now:

Meanwhile, the next review will be of the Sanyo PLV-Z3, which is already in house. That review will be posted by Friday. It will include a comparative shootout between the Z3 and the Panasonic AE700.

Can't wait to see what they say...

cine4home.de: CR Z3 900:1, 1460:1 with filter.

When is the Sanyo Z3 supposed to street in North America?

Originally posted by cpc
When is the Sanyo Z3 supposed to street in North America?

I just sent a message to the regional Sanyo guy down here ... should have an update shortly.
Last I heard (a week after CEDIA) ... we were looking at mid-November.

What I'm more curious about than the Z3 vs AE700 shootout is the actual difference from AE500/Z2 which i fear will not be that great.

Well the case is darker on the Z3!

Wow....it seems that timing is everything. I remember when the Z2 came out last year....it was the buzz.....so much so that the AE500 got very little attention when it arrived a few months later. Well, it seems that Panasonic learned from that and decided to bring the AE700 out first...beating the Z3 to the punch and generating all the buzz....look at the AE700 thread compared to the Z3 thread.

Competition is great....Sanyo will now be hungry when it comes to the Z4 vs the AE900.

Originally posted by netman
Well the case is darker on the Z3!

Actually, if you take a look at the latest English spec sheet ... the PLV-Z3 will be available in 2 colors (black or silver).

Just an FYI from my post above ... I am being told by Sanyo that the Z3 should be physically shipping in America the last week in November/first of December.

*Edit - had to add "in America" ;)

I think the important fixes I need to see in order to upgrade from my Z2 are;

- no vertical banding
- proper 50Hz DVI 1280x720 support without tearing
- no white crush.

Have anyone seen anything wrt to the 50Hz DVI issue?

Isn't Projector Central supposed to be providing a review between the Z3 and the Panny 700 today?


Craig

Not sure about them but isn't cine4home doing something like that?

Originally posted by cpc
Is it called "vertical banding"? Thats kind of funny. Does anyone else find it amussing that a "flaw" is adjustable in the user menu? Yes, I know it seems to be some inherent difficulty with some combination of lcd panel crystal refresh rates and some other technical details, but its still funny that you have it in the user menu. Soon we'll see the focus refered to as the "screendoor" adjuster and the maybe they'll have a "colour non-uniformity" adjustment.

Hehe, yeah you get a VB adjustment from 1-10. 1 = I love it! What do we get with the Z4? VB enhancement?

http://www.projectorcentral.com/sanyo_plv-z3.htm

Wow. I didn't think it was possible for the Z3 review to be worse than the AE700 review, but I think it is. That is a very vague review. I don't think I'm going to look at their reviews anymore. Distracting and un-informative.

Z3 review is up on ProjectorCentral...certainly better than the rambling, quasi-salespitch review of the AE700, but again....its a simple review......and it still left me asking the question "ook, so, how much better is the black-level of this LCD unit since we KNOW its already going to look good with HD content.."...

Evan noted excellent scaling on this unit, that is a huge plus over the AE700. Good scaling is a very integral part of pq.

Does anyone have real cr measurements yet?

Don

Lets not forget dust blob removal and verticle banding tweaks built in. The review did not mention lens shift though. I would guess its the same as the z2. Also where is the promised comparison to the ae700

Well, either they forgot due to the excitement of getting a hold of the Z3, or they're going to review all of them together in one big gigantic "everything vs AE700" commentary. I think I would prefer the individual comparisons. Then again, it does give value to compare everything to each other. :D

How hard is it to remove dust blobs without this new feature? Is it user serviceable, or do you have to take it in for service?

It would be nice to include in the shootout the hitachi TX-100 as well perhaps Cine4home boys in germany will give us this comparison in there weighting scale approach .

I just want to know does the 2000:1 CR on these new LCD units compare to 2000:1 on my X1??? I wouldn't mind stepping up to a 720p unit but they have to be able to do that silky film look, not just eye-popping color for the hi-def football games :D

I agree, the review is really crappy, and even the AE700 is better. And what about this part "It will include a comparative shootout between the Z3 and the Panasonic AE700."???

:(

I'm VERY surprised that this thread don't have as much info/answers as the AE-700, the Z3 seems to be the better projector of the two (possible to tweak that vertical banding)

Originally posted by ay221
How hard is it to remove dust blobs without this new feature? Is it user serviceable, or do you have to take it in for service?

Z2: As long as you are willing to pull the case off it is easy and quick. Takes all of 15 minutes but this sounds much easier than even that.

Andy

In this case, a screenshot is worth 1000 words... and is summed up by 1 word: Blech. VB is attrocious.

http://ascii24.com/news/i/hard/article/2004/09/10/images/images750625.jpg

I can't see any VB in that screenshot.

leedees, you have to look close. I didn't see it initially, but then I gave JP's word a closer look and it is indeed there. Put your nose to the monitor and look in the lower-left corner at the white. Now look at the corner as your eyes trace up the left side of the projected image. You can see faint gray-ish vertical lines that run parallel to the image.

Originally posted by pezt
I agree, the review is really crappy, and even the AE700 is better. And what about this part "It will include a comparative shootout between the Z3 and the Panasonic AE700."???

:(

I'm VERY surprised that this thread don't have as much info/answers as the AE-700, the Z3 seems to be the better projector of the two (possible to tweak that vertical banding)

First off, if you would have taken the time to read, you would have seen were Evan said he decided to postpone the AE-700 vs Z3 till Tues. but then again its easier to bitch than to get the facts and bother reading.
And speaking of bitching, this needs to be said, a great deal of people on this forum bitch and complain about Evans reviews and all of you should be ashamed of your-selfs, Evan offer his opinions and his views based on what he see's and what he decides to write about, but that does not seem to be good enough for allot of you.
This is how it is spose to work, you read Evans review on P J Central and then you can go on this forum and go to the "Official Thread" and sort thru 12 million post of people asking about Vertical Banding to find one review from someone that has the projector that you are interested in hearing about. You read that post from the person that has spent time with the projector in question, you combine Evans review with some personal hands on reviews posted by the people that have that projector on this forum. You take that information from both source's, AVS and Projector Central, combine the info and you have a pretty good idea about the Z3 or the 700 or any other PJ.
Evan and PJ Central offer their reviews and opinions on projectors we would like to know about, maybe a thank you would be in order instead of all the bitching.
The worst thing about VB is sorting thru all the questions about it to find a review of a projector.

davyo

Originally posted by JPinTO
In this case, a screenshot is worth 1000 words... and is summed up by 1 word: Blech. VB is attrocious.

I guess I am dense but what PJ is this image being produced by?

Andy

Originally posted by davyo
First off, if you would have taken the time to read, you would have seen were Evan said he decided to postpone the AE-700 vs Z3 till Tues. but then again its easier to bitch than to get the facts and bother reading.
And speaking of bitching, this needs to be said, a great deal of people on this forum bitch and complain about Evans reviews and all of you should be ashamed of your-selfs, Evan offer his opinions and his views based on what he see's and what he decides to write about, but that does not seem to be good enough for allot of you.
This is how it is spose to work, you read Evans review on P J Central and then you can go on this forum and go to the "Official Thread" and sort thru 12 million post of people asking about Vertical Banding to find one review from someone that has the projector that you are interested in hearing about. You read that post from the person that has spent time with the projector in question, you combine Evans review with some personal hands on reviews posted by the people that have that projector on this forum. You take that information from both source's, AVS and Projector Central, combine the info and you have a pretty good idea about the Z3 or the 700 or any other PJ.
Evan and PJ Central offer their reviews and opinions on projectors we would like to know about, maybe a thank you would be in order instead of all the bitching.
The worst thing about VB is sorting thru all the questions about it to find a review of a projector.

davyo
Interesting rebuttal davyo. But nothing you offered in comment had anything to do with the Sanyo PLV-Z3. You asked no questions about the product. You offered no information about the product. In fact, your post was about as useful as those posts in which you chastise.

BTW, there is an Ignore function on this forum and you can certainly use it to ignore individual you feel do nothing but post comments that do not interest you, especially comments about Evan and or Projector Central. Its one thing to condemn people of their comments, and yet another to play Evan's defence attorney. :D

BTW, I guess I am one of those people you seek to chastise. I have previously commented on inaccuracies in portion of Projector Central's website. AND, I have also made comment about vertical banding. OMG! Yet, my VPL-Z3 post here is no more worthless than you comments, in respect, which, IMO, are misplaced in this thread.

Originally posted by davyo
.. maybe a thank you would be in order instead of all the bitching. davyo

Nicely said.

The Z3 is now available to buy here in the UK, and it costs about £300 more than the Z2. Question is, is it worth the extra money over the Z2, or should I go with the Z2 because it has been around a little bit longer and is electronically "settled in" to the market ?

What do you lot think, should I be wary of buying a brand new technology release, or be brave and do it because it does come with a 3 year warranty anyway.

Any (constructive) thoughts ?

If I were you, markbingo, I would go for the Z3. It is the next evolution in great series of projectors...

In fact I'm sitting here thinking about how I can trade up from my Z2. The LCD Panel cleaning feature would save me from having to dismantle my projector every other month to blow the panels out. Good work SANYO!

AVSJester,

Thanks for the quick reply, About 2 weeks ago, I nearly parted with my hard earned money on the Z2, then heard about the Z3 coming soon, so I thought it would be best to at least wait until the price was confirmed and there was availability, so I could decide if the price difference was worth it.

I didnt think that the dust cleaning thing would be such a big deal, but the more I read in this forum, the more I understand that it is about to become my biggest enemy ! Having to crank open the case every 4 weeks is not my idea of fun.

The new motorized iris sounds like a very good idea, and seems to be very good (according to Sanyo blurb)

They call it TOPAZreal (in conjunction with other things) and apparently is the bee's knee's.

I would like to hear from anybody out there that already has the Z3 and find out if they are happy, as the chances of me being able to see it in action before I buy is nil.

I cant even find a Z2 to demo !

I've had my Z2 almost 2 months now and if these comments from PC's review are accurate, I will surely regret my decision of not waiting:

"scaling and onboard deinterlacing have been improved such that overall image stability and sharpness are better on the Z3 than they were on the Z2. Owners of the Z3 will never want to bother with an external video processor like the DVDO iScan HD since the onboard electronics are already fully adequate to the task. DVDs are scaled as cleanly as we've ever seen on any product in this class, and those with particularly good transfers look almost high def."

These are bold statements to make considering the PJs in this price catagory, or any PJ for that matter. Almost HD with no external scaler-------WOW-----Bring it on. (anyone in the market for an almost new Z2. Ebay here i come!)

TheFerret:

I'm a long time Z2 owner and I know VB when I see it. In the picture above might not be VB. The reason is that distortion curves in the corner. VB is always perfectly vertical. That distortion may be introduced from the angle that the digital camera took the picture. In other words the distortion is from the camera.

I'm VERY surprised that this thread don't have as much info/answers as the AE-700, the Z3 seems to be the better projector of the two (possible to tweak that vertical banding) [/B][/QUOTE]



I think u may be wrong with this.CINE4HOME played with both if u read some of his posts,u will not that the highest contrast they were able to get on the Z3 was around 1400:1.The AE700 was around the 2000:1 mark.Both were measured with filters.
Without filters the AE700 was measured substantially higher as well.
This to me equates to a fair gap in PQ between the two.
I think this time around the main competition will be between the AE700 and the HS51.

Personally I would rather has a VB free machine at 1400:1 then a 2000:1 contrast ratio machine with light VB.

Neither the Z3 nor the PTAE700 are VB-free.....

Regards,
Ekkehart, www.cine4home.de

Ekkehart, can you provide a picture example of VB on these products?

Originally posted by Cine4Home
Neither the Z3 nor the PTAE700 are VB-free.....

Regards,
Ekkehart,

Hi!

Thanks for the great review on the AE-700 (to bad babelfish aint 100%), when will the Z3 be ready?

Ok, so none of the projektors are VB-free, but the Z3 at least have the option to tweak it in the menus. Might even have (or is this what you do?) the service menu to add extra volts to the panel as you could do on the Z2.

How good/bad is the tweaking with the VB on Z3?

What unit would you prefer, the Z3, or AE700?

Originally posted by Cine4Home
Neither the Z3 nor the PTAE700 are VB-free.....

Ekkehart, have you tested that they both work with 1280x720 50Hz input using DVI without tearing, as is the problem with the Z2?

I find that Evan's reviews contain such a shift in thinking that people react as if they're wrong. As more data comes in, I find Evan is invariably proven accurate and his words well choosen. After several months, I find Evan's reviews hold up well against the user review consensus.

From the initial review by Projector Central, one would come to the conclusion that the Z3 is going to slightly edge the panny 700 in picture quality.
However, for me a slight difference in PQ is largely offset with the AE 700's flexibility of throw distance. 20+ feet for a nine foot wide screen is pretty impressive for a projector in this price range.

Craig

does anyone know who will get this first any of the forum sponsers per chance?

I'm going to have to second a motion with Suffolk112000........the 2.0 throw distance is, without a doubt, the most amazing feature for those of us who have less-than-optimum room setups.

It *ALWAYS* made me scratch my head the way that projector companies would equip their projectors with zoom lenses that, for all intents and purposes, forced you to place your projector within **3 feet** of where your best seating position would be.......having a bright, fan-equipped, space heater within 3 feet of where you're sitting just doesn't seem smart, no matter how you place it.


Being able to throw the same size image within a 10 foot window of placement.......thats flat-out brilliant.

didnt see this posted sorry if it was

http://presentation-systems.co.uk/pdfs/sanyo-plv-z3.pdf

It looks to me like the Z3 and the Panny 700 have the same throw ability. Both need 3meters to produce a 100" image, so not sure why you lot think the 700 is that great.

For my money the Z3 looks much better too, and if its going to be on show in any way, that counts for something.

Did I read the review correctly in the lens shift was 150% It was mentioning that with the projector on the ceiling it could throw and image 50% lower than the center line. So ceiling mounted projector, say 96x52 screen, that would seem to indicate the projector could be as high as 26" above the top of the screen is this true?

Originally posted by markbingo
The Z3 is now available to buy here in the UK, and it costs about £300 more than the Z2. Question is, is it worth the extra money over the Z2, or should I go with the Z2 because it has been around a little bit longer and is electronically "settled in" to the market ?

What do you lot think, should I be wary of buying a brand new technology release, or be brave and do it because it does come with a 3 year warranty anyway.

Any (constructive) thoughts ?

I was hoping the street price for the Z3 would be at least the same or better as the Z2 did when it first came out. Especially when the Z3 has a $500 lower MSRP.

Oh well.

Originally posted by markbingo
It looks to me like the Z3 and the Panny 700 have the same throw ability. Both need 3meters to produce a 100" image, so not sure why you lot think the 700 is that great.

For my money the Z3 looks much better too, and if its going to be on show in any way, that counts for something.

Actually the Panasonic has a much better throw capability. It can produce a 100" image from as close as 10 ft to as far as 20 ft from the screen. The Z3 can only do that from 10 ft to 13 ft from the screen. Therefore, the Panasonic wins by a large margin...making it much easier to install.

OTOH, the Panasonic lens shift may not be nearly as good as that on the Sanyo....so that may affect some installations.

just thought i'd let this thread know that there is a Z3 for sale on a very popular auction site. good luck

When I mentioned that the Z3 was £300 more in the UK, that was against a very competitively priced Z2. That was not the RRP for the Z2.

The Z3 is coming in at about £1250, so thats about what Sanyo were mooting.

Originally posted by Tup
Actually the Panasonic has a much better throw capability. It can produce a 100" image from as close as 10 ft to as far as 20 ft from the screen. The Z3 can only do that from 10 ft to 13 ft from the screen. Therefore, the Panasonic wins by a large margin...making it much easier to install.

OTOH, the Panasonic lens shift may not be nearly as good as that on the Sanyo....so that may affect some installations.

I was thinking about how close it could be, as opposed to how far away it could be, sorry. I'll be putting mine on a Coffee Table, so being close is the key for me. That is a good range on the Panny, so I can see what you mean about its potential for permanent (ceiling mounted) installation.

I agree--- the AE700's zoom is fantastic. The hoops I've had to jump through to get my first AE100 and current Z2 to the correct position is ridiculous. Mega zoom will be a huge selling point for a lot of users.... kind of like the lens shift was a huge selling point for the Z2.

I'm not really seeing why people are favoring the Z3 over the AE700?

Originally posted by JPinTO
I agree--- the AE700's zoom is fantastic. The hoops I've had to jump through to get my first AE100 and current Z2 to the correct position is ridiculous. Mega zoom will be a huge selling point for a lot of users.... kind of like the lens shift was a huge selling point for the Z2.

I'm not really seeing why people are favoring the Z3 over the AE700?

Z3 has more inputs, better lens shift, and apparently a better scaler/deinterlacer. Thats just off the top of my head.

I am personally torn between the 2. I could really use that extra component input but a 3000+ hour bulb makes me drool......

Originally posted by JPinTO
In this case, a screenshot is worth 1000 words... and is summed up by 1 word: Blech. VB is attrocious.

http://ascii24.com/news/i/hard/article/2004/09/10/images/images750625.jpg

As someone mentioned ealier that image is not being projected by a Z3. It is a presentation about a Z3 though.

Few ways to tell:

1. Its 4:3.......

2. Look at the labels below the picture, they are comparing two different PJ's one of which being the Z3 which would suggest they dont actually have a Z3 on hand.

Originally posted by JPinTO
I agree--- the AE700's zoom is fantastic. The hoops I've had to jump through to get my first AE100 and current Z2 to the correct position is ridiculous. Mega zoom will be a huge selling point for a lot of users.... kind of like the lens shift was a huge selling point for the Z2.

I'm not really seeing why people are favoring the Z3 over the AE700?

One word : "price". Just like why people are selecting the AE700 over the VPL-HS51. Just like why people are selecting these new batch of LCD projectors (among other things) over DLP based products.

Just my 2 cents, HD2+DC3 DMD's are way over priced for what you're getting. Last time I checked the MSRP is $8999 for 720p DLP with over 2000:1 contrast / 800 Lumens brightness. Sure the image is probably smoother, brighter, and more "3D" like, but I'm not quite sure if it's worth an extra $5000-$6000 USD. Those DLP advantage claims may be on unstable grounds by the looks of recent owner reviews of their AE700. The Z3 looks like a bargain for what you're getting too, according to a preliminary review from PJ Central.

Originally posted by Vlad_Dracule
As someone mentioned ealier that image is not being projected by a Z3. It is a presentation about a Z3 though.

Few ways to tell:

1. Its 4:3.......

2. Look at the labels below the picture, they are comparing two different PJ's one of which being the Z3 which would suggest they dont actually have a Z3 on hand.

That looks like just a presenation of the Z3. It's the same thing posted on the Japanese website a while back.

Originally posted by Cine4Home
Neither the Z3 nor the PTAE700 are VB-free.....

Regards,
Ekkehart, www.cine4home.de
Ekkehart-
Thanks for all the hard work tweaking these babies to their maximum potential!

In the pdf posted above, it looks like the Z3's "motorized iris" is indeed a dynamic iris that adjusts by itself much like the AE700 and the HS51. Is that true? There was speculation a ways back about it only being a motorized iris in that it was user adjustable via the remote. Confirmation one way or the other would be appreciated.

Thanks.
-Matt

Originally posted by Souki
One word : "price". Just like why people are selecting the AE700 over the VPL-HS51. Just like why people are selecting these new batch of LCD projectors (among other things) over DLP based products.

Just my 2 cents, HD2+DC3 DMD's are way over priced for what you're getting. Last time I checked the MSRP is $8999 for 720p DLP with over 2000:1 contrast / 800 Lumens brightness. Sure the image is probably smoother, brighter, and more "3D" like, but I'm not quite sure if it's worth an extra $5000-$6000 USD. Those DLP advantage claims may be on unstable grounds by the looks of recent owner reviews of their AE700. The Z3 looks like a bargain for what you're getting too, according to a preliminary review from PJ Central.
You may want to check again in about a month or so. Sharp is coming out with the XV-Z2000 and I think its MSRP is going to be $4495. When the chatter about it started on AVS they were saying streeting for $3999. I would imagine it will be less if it contains the same margins as its big brother. And while I do not expect Yamaha and marantz to follow suit, I do expect Benq to stay in the price-war compeition.

Still, your point is valid.

Originally posted by TheFerret
You may want to check again in about a month or so. Sharp is coming out with the XV-Z2000 and I think its MSRP is going to be $4495. When the chatter about it started on AVS they were saying streeting for $3999. I would imagine it will be less if it contains the same margins as its big brother. And while I do not expect Yamaha and marantz to follow suit, I do expect Benq to stay in the price-war compeition.

Still, your point is valid.

Almost forgot about the Sharp! Hmmmm...$1000-$2000 more... But I'm just thinking if the Panny is around $2199 street from $2999 MSRP, the PLV-Z3 would probably be $1795 street from $2495 MSRP. Gonna be a tough sell for us budget minded people around here, :D

That said, can't wait til December for some reviews/shootout of the Sharp.

Don't forget Evan's comparison review, in P.C., of the Z3 vs. the AE700 promised Tuesday (today?).

Projector Central's AE700 vs Z3 comparison.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/panasonic_ae700_sanyo_z3.htm

In the pdf posted above, it looks like the Z3's "motorized iris" is indeed a dynamic iris that adjusts by itself much like the AE700 and the HS51. Is that true?


No unfortunately not true. it is just a normal Iris motorized. You can choose between 63 steps.. 63 gives the best contrast. This is for sure as i have the Z3 here...

Regards,
Ekkehart, www.cine4home.de

In other words, its not a dynamic iris in the sense of how Sony and Panasonic has employed an iris. Variable yes, dynamic no.

In other words, its not a dynamic iris in the sense of how Sony and Panasonic has employed an iris. Variable yes, dynamic no.


Exactly.. it is more like the TX100 Iris.....

The Z3 reaches max 1650:1, 900:1 at D65

Black level is good....


Regards,
Ekkehart, www.cine4home.de

Ekkehart-
That means the Z3 is getting a true on/off CR of 1650:1 with no funny dynamic iris tricks?! Do they use a lamp modulation instead to acheive this? What are the lumens in max CR?

How do those specs compare to the best "true" on/off CR you could get with the AE700 (without activating the iris)? Thanks again for all the hard work!
-Matt

Hi all. I'm new to this forum although I've been browsing it for some time now. As with many others, I've decided to make the leap into the FP HT experience and have been reading everything I can about the PLV Z3, AE700U and the HS51.

Seeing how the Panny and Sanyo seem to compete more directly being in a closer price range, I was especially interested in the comparisons, so this question is especially for ekkehart.

From reading the posts, am I correct in understanding that the PLV-Z3 can achieve a 900:1 contrast ratio merely by calibration and a 1650:1 contrast ratio with filter, in a single film/picture frame, with no dynamic iris? In other words, this is a true contrast ratio between the lightest and darkest areas of a single displayed frame?

And in comparison, the AE700U can achieve a contrast ratio of 950:1 by calibration and a little over 2000:1 with filter, but this is WITH dynamic iris and it only achieves a contrast ratio of 600:1 within a single displayed frame?

If I've read it right, then the Sanyo has a much greater contrast ratio within any single scene or frameshot that has both bright light and dark shadow, but the Panasonic has greater contrast when comparing contrast between the darkest scenes and brightest scenes in different parts of a movie?

I think what is most important is what is achieved without filter and calibrating to D65. Of course, this is not to say filter-based calibration at D65 is not worth considering as it is. I think its also important to know what the CR setting on the projector is when achieving maximum CR, at D65 (filter or not) so some can get an idea of how much light they'll have to work with and maybe help them choose a screen gain accordingly.

Originally posted by djbluemax1
If I've read it right, then the Sanyo has a much greater contrast ratio within any single scene or frameshot that has both bright light and dark shadow, but the Panasonic has greater contrast when comparing contrast between the darkest scenes and brightest scenes in different parts of a movie?
This is why I posted my above question to Ekkehart... I don't think we can claim what your claiming with out confirmation from him. I'm guessing the Panny and Sanyo use similar trickery....

Both have about 1000:1 standard.
Z3's max contrast I'm guessing uses a auto adjusting lamp and filter to get about 1500:1
AE700 uses an auto lamp, auto iris and filter to push it a bit further to 2000:1

If you could just use the auto lamp fuction on the AE700 I would guess they would be about the same.... 1500:1. Both units use the same panels so I wouldn't expect a 50% difference from one machine to another without some sort of trickery :D
-Matt

P.S. I don't mean "trickery" to be a bad thing as long as it works.

Hopefully Ekkehart will read this and reply sometime soon. I PM'ed the questions directly to him too, hoping it would be easier to note as opposed to checking every thread he's posted in to see if anyone's asked a question.

In retrospect though. I realize that the Sanyo must be doing this with the lamp mode thing, and the 900:1 and 1650:1 measurements ARE full on/off since the quoted CR can't be ANSI measurements. The HS51 with the rated 6000:1 CR actually measured a 5000+:1 full on/off CR but the ANSI contrast was only measured at a little over 150:1

Still, I would really like to know what the ANSI CR is for the Z3 and 700U.

I have to say, frankly, I don't get any of this. Why would I want the CR as measured between two different frames. Maybe I am missing the point but other than marketing what could that number tell me. Varying the lamp or the iris? You guys are making this stuff up right? :)

This all brings back the days when audio amps were measured in crazy standards. Remember that 10 watt amp that was rated at 100 watt? That was for only one half cycle at 200hz measured just as the power supply capacitor exploded.

OK, goofy comments over.

Originally posted by netman
I have to say, frankly, I don't get any of this. Why would I want the CR as measured between two different frames. Maybe I am missing the point but other than marketing what could that number tell me. Varying the lamp or the iris? You guys are making this stuff up right? :)

May I suggest you read this review (http://www.widescreenreview.com/attractions/eqrevfeature.html)
Though it deals with the Sony HS51 it does have some interesting comments with respect to the value and need for high ON/OFF CR. These are figures from a calibrated LCD which takes advantage of a dynamic iris. People can consider these as "tricks" but in fact it is an known tech adapted to projectors and happens to mimic the action of the eye. If interested dynamic iris tech has been discussed in several threads here on AVS.

Manufacturers have been delivering PJ's with adjustable irises to lower the lumens and hence enhance black level for some time now. Why not automate the process in such a way that allows the user the advantages of both higher lumens and lower blacks? If it is a 'trick', it is an artifice that works so why shouldn't we take advantage of any device that enhances PQ and adds to our enjoyment?

ted

Any Canadians going for a Z3 ?

Originally posted by tvted
May I suggest you read this review (http://www.widescreenreview.com/attractions/eqrevfeature.html)
Though it deals .. it is an artifice that works so why shouldn't we take advantage of any device that enhances PQ and adds to our enjoyment?

ted

I guess the real question is whether it does improve picture quality. I would have to see it but I would not be surprised if at first look you would like the effect but over time you may not as much. I say "may" because to further my sound analogy I DO ride my volume control up and down a bit as movies move into louder and softer segments. This seems a good analogy and while I am not really increasing or decreasing my dynamic range I am making the program more palatable. I still think measuring the CR the way they do is misleading, however. In the final analyze if I can have => 2000:1 CR in one frame I do not think I would need the auto iris.

Originally posted by netman
I say "may" because to further my sound analogy I DO ride my volume control up and down a bit as movies move into louder and softer segments. This seems a good analogy and while I am not really increasing or decreasing my dynamic range I am making the program more palatable. I still think measuring the CR the way they do is misleading, however. In the final analyze if I can have => 2000:1 CR in one frame I do not think I would need the auto iris.

If you wish to compress the dynamic range of your audio why not use a compressor? - the effect is the same.
Saying that however. I do not share your opinion that the the audio analogy you have cited is in any way analogous to improving picture quality with a dynamic iris.
As to the whys of a large ON/OFF CR, the section of the earlier noted review entitled "Contrast Requirements For Excellent Image Quality" makes it perfectly clear why a large range is desirable.

ted

Originally posted by netman
In the final analyze if I can have => 2000:1 CR in one frame I do not think I would need the auto iris.

As stated in my previous post, I was mistaken. The 1650:1 CR was full on/off, not ANSI CR and only after Ekkehart had calibrated the projector with a color filter at D65. This would have been with lamp modulation, dimming the lamp and increasing brightness, all with the iris at its smallest aperture. Setting the iris to the smallest aperture reduces the light passing through the most but also gives the best contrast.

In retrospect, I am unsure if there is ANY digital projector at any price level that would have an ANSI CR of 1650:1

(netman, ANSI CR is measured using a checkerboard with a 4 x 4 square grid with alternating boxes, 8 black boxes and 8 white boxes on the same screen and the CR is measured as the mean difference between the centers of the black squares and the centers of the white squares. This is what you would be thinking of as CR within a single frame.)

Originally posted by cpc
Any Canadians going for a Z3 ?

It strikes me that the Z3 is a small incremental improvement over the Z2. A little bit here and a little bit there. Personally, I want the improvements of the D5 panels before I'll upgrade.

It strikes me that the Z3 is a small incremental improvement over the Z2. A little bit here and a little bit there. Personally, I want the improvements of the D5 panels before I'll upgrade.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would have to agree.

At first reading of the initial review on PC, I was impressed with the Z3(As seen in my previos post). But now that the side-by-side review is out, I'm not so sure. I don’t understand how PC’s review process could have gotten so bad so quickly (IMHO). I don’t mean to bash, but they seem to have retracted everything they stated in their initial review of the Z3 and Panny.

I’m not naive; I know that a side by side comparison can change someone’s opinion of a product, but to have such a dramatic change in opinion is a little odd. I just feel a total change in the reviewers temperature from the initial review of each product to the comparison review.

Has anyone ever seen such a turn around in a review of two products, and if so can you offer any insight as to why there would be such a dramatic swing in another direction?

I would love to hear from anybody who has seen/got the Z2 and has demo'd/got the z3 to let me know if they think the z3 is worth an extra
£400 GBP ( approx $732 USD )

I will be buying my first projector next week, and still have not been able to hear from anybody who already has a z3 as to whether it is definately worth the extra.

Any thoughts anybody ?

Good question Mark.

I currently own a 2HD (Z2 clone) and I have been contemplating an upgrade to the Z3 or the Panny 700 to gain more contrast and black level.

If the Sanyo Z3 and the Panny 700 projectors have finally squeezed the last bit of performance out of the D4 chip and there is a definate precievable difference in the contrast and black level from the Z3 then maybe it might be wise to upgrade now and then wait for the D5 projectors to come down in price.

Also has anyone heard any rumors about Studio Experience using the Sanyo Z3 as their new 3HD?

Its all about what makes you happy. If its a large upgrade, then you can justify it, because not upgrading means spending time with less than you want. We don't know what the next generation will bring. If you can, try to compare yours with the Z3 or AE700 and then decide.

I am also a current SE2HD owner. I was VERY tempted by the Z3 or the AE700 but the more I think about it the more I think I will wait for next years D5 panels. The AE700 however is very tempting with its 5000 hour bulb.

Basically it comes down to what I think I can get on my bulb. My current bulb has 1970 hours on it so it will need to be replaced. Now if I knew that I could get at least 1500 out of my next bulb I would definately wait for the D5 PJ's, but being as I have only seen 2 other people break the 1200 hour barrier with their Z2 I am seriously contemplating the AE700.

Seems like there are many of us that are figuring that the Z3 isn't worth the extra money over our Z2's at this point. I'm at the 1200 hour mark on my SE2HD as well. Bulb prices seem to be coming down though....I've seen a couple of places in the $420-440 mark.

Originally posted by cpc
Any Canadians going for a Z3 ?

After reading lots of reports between the Panny AE700 and the Z3, I decided that I am going to get the Z3. In Canada, my dealer has it $200 lower. Not that it is such a great deal, but they have stock now and quite frankly, the reports are 50/50. It seems that everyone is either a Panny lover or Z3 lover. I don't think I will go wrong with either.

Canadian living in Cambridge, Ontario,

Brian

My dealer is offering to buy my Z2 at current street prices minus $100 for used time if I upgrade to the Z3. It is a tempting offer, as I am in the market to buy a spare bulb anyway. However, my Z2 is only 3 months old now and only has 266 hours. Unfortunately, all the different opinions and reviews have left me without a clear insight. My dealer says he’ll have the units in by the 2nd week in Nov, and will be doing comparison with the Z2. He has money to make though, and I just don’t know where to go to get an honest opinion. The rough part is that he needs a decision to be made by Nov 9th.

Based on the current reviews and the comments that have been made on this forum, what factors would go into the decision if you had to make it, and would you go for the offer.

Any insight and different opinions would be greatly appreciated, as I am the only one in my family and group of friends that is heavily interested in A/V, and this forum is my main source of input.

Thanks guys!

Surprised no-one has noticed this yet - Cine4home reports that an adaptive iris has been spotted on updated versions of the Z3 ;

http://world.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=de_en&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.cine4home.de%2findex.htm

Paul

Here is the Spec sheet that my dealer sent this morning. It talks about the motorized iris (TOPAZreal?), and the 10-bit processing. Does anyone know if the Panny 700 uses 8 or 10 bit processing?




http://www.audiogeneral.com/Sanyo/PLV-Z3%20spec%20sheet.pdf

I can't wait to see the production version. This thing looks promising-on paper-.

Originally posted by Dream1
Here is the Spec sheet that my dealer sent this morning. It talks about the motorized iris (TOPAZreal?), and the 10-bit processing. Does anyone know if the Panny 700 uses 8 or 10 bit processing?

10 bit.
"motorized" doesn't necessarily mean auto adjusting on a scene by scene basis like the HS51/AE700. Time will tell.

ted

Time will tell.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah, you’re right, all speculation at this point. :)

For all interested,i went from a Ae500 to a AE700,and the difference in PQ is quite noticable.Black level is a fair bit better.Really dont worry about it any more,contrast is far better and the colour are a 100x better.Less VB can be totally removed via flicker tweak.Out of box settings seem spot on.Quiter better warranty .
So if ur thinking of upgrading from a Z2,wondering wether its worth the cost.It most definately is.

So is this damm thing ever going to get released, or is it like the Samsung HD-941 dvd player, and just going to be vaporware. anybody have a release date?

I've had my z3 for 2 days now, upgraded from the z2.

I did not get to do a side by side comparison but here are my thoughts.

Better contrast, brightness and blacks.

Slightly better on the vb front and I have not yet tweaked it.

I play alot of divx movies and there is a noticable improvment in them, guess that is the scaler.

Colours - watched moulin rouge with the girl last night, even she was impressed by the colour improvement and the way it handled the darker scenes.

Overall, in my opinion, well worth the upgrade.

ps - I anyone finds an english manual to download it would be much apreciated. my proj came from price@japan.

Simon

Originally posted by srpage
I've had my z3 for 2 days now, upgraded from the z2.

I did not get to do a side by side comparison but here are my thoughts.

Better contrast, brightness and blacks.

Slightly better on the vb front and I have not yet tweaked it.

I play alot of divx movies and there is a noticable improvment in them, guess that is the scaler.

Colours - watched moulin rouge with the girl last night, even she was impressed by the colour improvement and the way it handled the darker scenes.

Overall, in my opinion, well worth the upgrade.

ps - I anyone finds an english manual to download it would be much apreciated. my proj came from price@japan.

Simon

Simon,
Thanks for the post, can you let me know what your setup is ?
Do you have the Z3 on a coffee table ? Are you using the lens shift at all ?
If so, what difference, if any, does that make in real terms ?

Do you use the Z3 (and your old Z2) in a light controlled room or are you able to watch it easily with ambient light ?

I am planning to get black out blinds installed, but wonder if they are absolutely necessary or not ?

Your continued thoughts and opinions on your new Z3 would be much welcome, and if I find a link to a English Manual I will let you know.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts

Mark

I saw the Z3 up and running this afternoon.
Hand on my heart, I couldn't see any noticeable difference from the Z2.

Over here there's not much difference in price between either, so as a first projector the Z3 is probably worth the extra for the dust blob protection alone. But if you already have a Z2 I would hold on for a while before upgrading.

Mark...with either machine the darker the room the better.
If you put the unit on a coffee table you'll have cables running all over the place. It looks good in the Sanyo brochures, but in practice you are much better permanently mounting your projector and hiding the spaghetti.

Sean.

Seanrm, can you check if the Z3 can do 1280x720 in 50Hz on the digital input without tearing?

Sorry, this was just an in-store demo so I am unable to report on specific input options.

The Z3 was running some kind of sample DVD with various video loops- some of the movie sequences I was familiar with. It was hooked-up to a standard branded player so I presume the image was 480p.

It looked good, but I really could not say that it looked significantly better than a Z2.

Sean.

I should just mention that the Z1X was also on display and yes, looked every bit as similar as the Z2 and Z3.

My Z3 is ceiling mounted with a small amount of lens shift.

The lens shift is important because it removes the need for keystone adjustment, which distorts the image.

My room is completely light controlled and to me it is crucial for viewing with a front projector.

I use a HTPC with DVI output of 1280 x720 ,50 Hz and there is no tearing.
I do not think you should even bother with the z3 if all you are going to feed it is 480p and you are wasting your time comparing the Z1, Z2 ,Z3
without challenging them with at least a 720p component input.


Simon

Sean (or anyone else), does it really have extra dust-blob protection, or just an easier way to remove them when they occur?

Seanrm / srpage

I would love to be able to ceiling mount the projector, but it is being installed in my lounge, so convincing the wife is a whole other issue ! (can anybody help with that ?? !!!! )

As well as that, I can not get access to the ceiling recesses either, so the cables would have to be run across the ceiling in ducting. On the whole it would look pretty ugly.

With the lens shift capability, the Z2/3 could sit on a side table and the cables pulled out on an occasional basis, so shouldn't be too messy, and they wont be dragging across the floor for anybody to trip over. Thats why I asked about the lens shift, as it looks like I will have to use a fair amount of that (maybe 25 - 30% right, and about 20% up) so I am quite keen to hear if the picture holds together well under those circumstances.

Of course I want to avoid using Keystone !

Mark

Originally posted by tbacos
Sean (or anyone else), does it really have extra dust-blob protection, or just an easier way to remove them when they occur?

It is not extra protection, it just allows the owner to get access to, and remove dust blobs should they occur WITHOUT having to crack open the case and get down and dirty with the insides (and possibly invalidate your warranty)

Mark,

I've no idea of your room dims, but my set-up may give you a few ideas:

Bear in mind that all of these Sanyo projectors are designed for a 100" screen in a typical Japanese 6-jo (6 tatami mat) room. The only way to do this without a ceiling mount is...

Screen on far wall
Projector on shelf on rear wall, behind sofa.
Cables run under sofa & carpet to DVD/speakers.

(If the projector was on a coffee table in front of the sofa it would be too close to give a 100" screen in this size room).

With this kind of set-up there is negligible lens shift.
OK, the PJ is just above your head, but with low lamp there is virtually no fan noise.

But the most important thing is this - it is an unobtrusive and permanent solution. I cannot imagine the hassle of having to set up and connect everything each time I wanted to use the projector....no fun at all and very ugly/messy.

Sean.

Seanrm,

I have a long room, so I propose to project a 100" image from 3.5 meters back, and slightly to the left (hence the lens shift).

My sitting position will be about 4.5 meters back.

All of my cables currently go down the left side of the room, for my DTS etc, so there will be no cables going across the floor, just directly to the left side wall.

I know it's going to be a bit of a pain pulling it all out and setting it up each time I want to use it, but I guess it should take no more than 5 mins to do that. So my plan is to pack the wife off to the kitchen to make a couple of drinks, whilst I do the set up. By the time a nice cup of Tea is made, it should be ready to go.

The Z2/3 have memory settings for setup, so I expect that I will get quicker and quicker at doing the set up the more times I try.

I agree, it will be a pain, but it does mean that the clean lines of the room (this is my main lounge room) will not be altered in any way, so I will be saved from grief on this !

I guess in the long run, if it becomes too much trouble, I may end up putting it on the ceiling, but I really cant see my wife going for this solution, due to the constantly visible bulk of the machine itself, and the cables going across the ceiling. (the only way to hide the cables would be to take up the flooring in both of my kids bedrooms above the lounge, and then put it all back down again, HUGE job, and lots more decorating )

Certainly for now, its a coffee table for me. Also I am getting full black out blinds fitted.

I wonder how fast I will be able to get it set up !

Mark

Originally posted by markbingo
Seanrm,

I guess in the long run, if it becomes too much trouble, I may end up putting it on the ceiling, but I really cant see my wife going for this solution, due to the constantly visible bulk of the machine itself, and the cables going across the ceiling. (the only way to hide the cables would be to take up the flooring in both of my kids bedrooms above the lounge, and then put it all back down again, HUGE job, and lots more decorating )


Actually most hardware stores have conduit that you can get in a matching color or can be painted then you open it up, put all the cables in, snap it closed then it mounts to the ceiling/wall with a 2 sided tape. Works pretty well, doesn't seem very obtrusive.

Originally posted by Strahan
Actually most hardware stores have conduit that you can get in a matching color or can be painted then you open it up, put all the cables in, snap it closed then it mounts to the ceiling/wall with a 2 sided tape. Works pretty well, doesn't seem very obtrusive.

To me..... not obtrusive.

To you.... not obtrusive.

To my wife ...... "What the hell are you thinking Mark.....look at the size of THAT!"

(of course we are still talking about the cable conduit right ? !!! )

Seriously though, the ceiling has an artex pattern on it, so its an uneven surface too. and any conduit would have to come down right in front of the fireplace which is the center point of the room (or go backwards all the way past our heads across over a 3rd of the ceiling to the back wall). I'm not making it up just to be awkward you know...... my wife is very proud of her lounge !

I think the way forward is to wait till we have the Z3 going, and then when she is soooo impressed with the picture and quality, she will want to use it all the time. Maybe then, she will accept a compromise. In the mean time I guess I will become a very proficient Z3 installation engineer !

Mark,

Why don't you try a POA-CH-EX01:

http://www.rakuten.co.jp/avac/126610/129053/198946/176891/#246354

Sean.

Originally posted by Seanrm
Mark,

Why don't you try a POA-CH-EX01:

http://www.rakuten.co.jp/avac/126610/129053/198946/176891/#246354

Sean.

Good call Sean, but unfortunately that wont work either, as I have windows across the back wall (going to cost me a fortune to "blackout" )

I had another look at my ceiling last night, and my wife agreed that it would be good to have the Z3 permanently installed, but was very concerned about the look of it. I don't seem able to find any accessory information for the Z3 anywhere yet, but the Z2 seems to have various ceiling fixtures, and I guess they will work on the Z3 ?!?

I would like to get the projector as flush to the ceiling as possible, but the closest I seem to be able to get it is 14cm, which is a shame given the lens shift capability of the unit. This means I would be able to reach up and turn it on with my hand :-(

We shall have to see.

On the plus side, I should be putting my Z3 order in this week, at last.......

Trying to decide what my first movie should be to watch on it now !

Mark,

How good are your DIY skills?

If you are up for it, there is really no need for the Sanyo ceiling mounts...

if you don't know this link, have a quick look at what some other people have done:

http://www.projectorpeople.com/hometheater/hometheater-showrooms.asp

Sean.

Mark

Check out the Chief Mount RPA unit. It will let you mount the Z3 three inches from the ceiling and still provide all the adjustments, (roll, pitch, and yaw). It is a solid unit and has a quick mount so you can remove the projector from the mount for cleaning.

http://www.chiefmfg.com/product_display.asp?typ=ps&id=30

Also think about setting up your audio rack against the wall near the seating area and run shorter video cables to the projector . Then run longer speaker cables. I have mine setup like this and I have full control of my system without even getting up out of my chair. Also Lowes carries white plastic conduit that mounts to the wall or ceiling with 3M 2-sided tape. Actually its not bad looking at all. I have it running up the wall and across the ceiling to the projector. It can also be mounted in corners or you can put two pieces together if you have several cables to run.

As far as the first movie, if you have children I recommend Finding Nemo.

Hi guys-
Another 2HD owner for about 3 months wondering about an upgrade. Seems like everyone has been back and forth.
One question-do we know whether the mounts for the Z2 and the Z3 are compatible?
Any of you guys that were chatting on page 7 (Vlad, Dream 1) make a decision? It isn't going to be possible for me to see the Z3 before making this decision-but I figure that I might want to dump the 2Hd while it still has some residual value and upgrade now.

Seanrm / HT Gearhead

Thanks for a couple of great links, I hadn't been to either of those sites before, and they have been very useful.

I especially like the look of : http://www.projectorpeople.com/hometheater/custshow_cwells.asp
That looks like a very complimentary installation.

And the link from HT Gearhead looks like a very well designed flush fitting mount. I will investigate further.

And yes I have got kids, and Nemo, so that may well be the first one up. Seeing Bruce on a 100" screen is gonna be fun !

Vigga

I feel the same way, if the Z3 has preceptable improvement in contrast and black level and the new D4 projectors (Panny 700 and Z3) have gained the maximum performance from the D4 chips, it might be wise to upgrade while we still have 50-75% resale value on our Z2's and 2HD's. Then wait for the price to come down on the D5 panel projectors. I just feel the cost to performance improvement ratio of the new D5 panel projectors might not be worth it in the first year or two. Of course I would like to hear comments contrary to my opinion.

I have a Panny 700 on preorder but I am concerned about the talk of VB on this unit. I might wait to hear comments regarding VB from some of the new Z3 owners before pulling the plug. From the pictures it looks that the case of the Z3 is very similar to the Z2's. I too am hoping the mounting holes on the Z3 are the same as on the Z2.

Hey, I apologize for popping my head into a thread I haven't really been following (personally thought the Z3 was at least a month away) ...

But I just heard from a regional Sanyo sales rep that the Z3's just arrived and they are priced competitively with the Panasonic AE700. This was only a message, so I didn't get a chance to ask him if he meant "here" as in "in production" or "here" as in "here in the warehouse ready to buy".

I'll see what I can come up with when I can get a hold of him directly.

I agree. Lots of talk about the D5 panels, but I feel with the stats being thrown around and true 1080p resolution they might be priced above my head for the time being - the Z3 might be a better hold on for the next couple of years.

Agreed, I think they will attempt to follow Fujitsu's lead on the 1080P projector product offering and price high what 1080P/D5 offering come forward in the initial months.

Given that I am in the market for a Screen, can everyone post what Screens they are using for a light controlled room? The screen should be 100" and 16 x 9.

I checked in the Screens forum, but it doesn't seem that much traffic happens there, so I figured since I own a Z3 and I am looking for a screen, I would check to see what everyone else is using.

Thanks,

Brian

Brian, if you have a light controlled environment does this mean that you can have it completely absent of light? Are there or will there be electronic components, wall sconces, etc. in the room, and are the walls, ceiling, floor, door(s) and trim amicable for a light controlled room?

I ask this because I've seen where others have denoted their light controlled room and yet they had dang-near white walls, ceiling, etc. which did a lot in light reflection and as such raised the black levels--almost eliminating the benefit of a light-controlled room.

If I were you, I would first get the projector setup and pointing at the screen wall you intend to use. During this time, also email/phone the different screen manufacturers for screen samples (I've done this and its helpful). Then compare some of your favorite movies (and other content using the screen samples.

I do not think the screen size for the given output of the projector should present a tremendously large gain, but your personal preferences are for you to decide.

vigga and HT Gearhead,

I am thinking the same. Waiting for more of an upgrade will mean paying full price for 2 projectors within 2 years. I am in a position to get a great deal on a projector that, IMHO, is worth the upgrade price.

I am also taking into consideration the fact that I will have to buy a new bulb within the next few months for my Z2. Why? When I can just kick in a few hundred extra now and get a new bulb, bulb warranty, and some new features (and hopefully better PQ). For me the decision is not hard. I am waiting to hear form my dealer tonight. Apparently, he has one in-house and will be calibrating and testing today.

'Thanks for the quick response.

Your right, my room is not totally light controlled. I have 2 windows that I can put blinds on. The ceiling is white, but will be painted another colour in the future and the stereo components will be hidden so there won't be any light coming from them.

Unfortunately, since I live in Canada, most manufactures won't ship any samples up North. I already have a screen, but I have no clue what the specs are as it was an old screen used for presentations. I was reading the information on the Stewart site and it mentioned that a High Gain screen would be best given the type of projector that I have.

Is this totally true? I want to make sure that if I buy a screen and mount it, that it will give me the best picture for the price.

Thanks,

Brian

The z3 has the same holes for the ceiling mount as the z2.

It was a straight swap.

Does someone have any tips on how to start tweaking the Z3 since it has alot more functions in the menu than Z2... VB and so on...

I dont want to make the mod's mad, but does anyone want to hazzard a guess on what a reasonable price for a used 2HD with <200 hrs on the bulb should be priced for at videogon?

Originally posted by vigga
I dont want to make the mod's mad, but does anyone want to hazzard a guess on what a reasonable price for a used 2HD with <200 hrs on the bulb should be priced for at videogon?

I would think that just going to see what the current used pricing is for used 720P LCD projectors on Videogon and starting from there. Someone has a Z2 listed as NEW one Videogon with 400 hours on the lamp.

Ferret... forum rules. Stop the pricing posts.

Unless Studio Experience has a transferable warranty, I personally wouldn't pay within 70% of the street price for a new one. But that's just me. :)

Z3 thread???

Originally posted by Ludde
Z3 thread??? I think the poster got onto the discussion about upgrading and his 2HD is a rebadged Z2--of which other Z2 owners talked about selling to upgrade to the Z3.

Originally posted by markbingo
Seanrm / HT Gearhead

Thanks for a couple of great links, I hadn't been to either of those sites before, and they have been very useful.

I especially like the look of : http://www.projectorpeople.com/hometheater/custshow_cwells.asp
That looks like a very complimentary installation.

And the link from HT Gearhead looks like a very well designed flush fitting mount. I will investigate further.

And yes I have got kids, and Nemo, so that may well be the first one up. Seeing Bruce on a 100" screen is gonna be fun !


Seanrm / HT Gearhead,

Well you only went and did it dint you ! You sowed a seed of doubt in my mind about my installation of the Z3 that has spawned into a HUGE plant over the last few days.

My wife and I decided that you guys are absolutely right, and that a permanent installation is the way to go, so that means its gotta be off the floor. With everything I've already said about Ceiling mounting, we drew a compromise that the projector could go in as long as its up against the back wall.

So that was when it happened................ That was the moment that the Z3 lost a purchaser, because the lens simply would not be up to the job.

So I have just bought a Panny 700, and a 106" diagonal screen, and will be getting my DIY tools out next Tuesday.

To be honest i'm kinda sad that I wont be an owner of a Z3, cos a really like it, but In the end the Panny Zoom lens won the day.

Thanks very much for opening my eyes to these issues, before I spent all my money, your comments and links have been extremely useful.

Thanks, and I guess.... goodbye to the Z3 forum...... !!!

Mark

I am going to pick up my Z3 today, the lens on the 700 is nice but I don't like the VB on the 700, which to my understanding can NOT be tuned.
Since the Z3 has VB tuning in the menus, wow....

Originally posted by Ludde
I am going to pick up my Z3 today, the lens on the 700 is nice but I don't like the VB on the 700, which to my understanding can NOT be tuned.
Since the Z3 has VB tuning in the menus, wow....

I know what you mean about the VB, but apparently you can tune it out on the Panny in the service menus, if you need to.

The thing that won me (apart from the lens) was that in the various reviews of the 700 they described the optimum setup and dimensions, and my room matches it exactly. So that was a big endorsement for me. Unfortunately to have the Z3 (for me) was going to be a huge payoff with the look of the room, since it would have to be ceiling mounted about 2/3rds down. And that was going to be a big problem.

Don't get me wrong, I still like the Z3 a lot, and would recommend it, but it just cant tick all the boxes for me. If only Sanyo had a better lens on it.............

Originally posted by markbingo
I know what you mean about the VB, but apparently you can tune it out on the Panny in the service menus, if you need to.
This is not an absolute. Some have been able to tune discernible VB from their AE700's, but some have also noted they have not been able to remove it completely and were left with noticeable VB.

Just a question------------------------------????????????

Does having the Panny pushed back to, let's say 20 feet for a 106" screen; diminish the Brightness, Contrast, and PQ. I would assume, judging from the Lumens rating (not a light cannon and same as Z3), that contrast, brightness and overall PQ quality would take a hit.

All reviews I have seen that match the Z3 to the Panny are done with both units at the same distance. I would think that you would need more light output for longer shooting distances, as is the case with most long throw PJ¡¦s. Now, I am new to this and am by no means an expert. So please take my questioning with a grain of salt. Thanks.

(Edit) Panny has higher light output than Sanyo

Now that the Z3 has been found by Cine4home to also have a type of dynamic iris, how do these PJ's compare in terms of calibrated contrast and colour? (EDIT)

coc, same as the Panny or same as the Sony?

Can't recall. Cine4home has a short blurb. I was surprised that the Z3 came out WITHOUT the dynamic iris and then they changed it. Seems like it must have been a weird model release fluke. I can't see that they would release the Z3 without that feature and suddenly be ablt to enable it, or install later in a short time.

Originally posted by Dream1
Just a question------------------------------????????????

Does having the Panny pushed back to, let's say 20 feet for a 106" screen; diminish the Brightness, Contrast, and PQ. I would assume, judging from the Lumens rating (not a light cannon and same as Z3), that contrast, brightness and overall PQ quality would take a hit.

As long as the screen size remains constant then those qualities should remain the same for any given projector. If you are comparing PJs that would of course be dependent on the calibrated and measured output of the device.

ted

"tvted
Senior Member"

Hey,
I'm a Senior now - do I get to collect a pension?


:D
ted

Ted,

Are you saying that light output is not dampened by distance?

Additionally, an Edit to my earlier post; the Panny 700 is listed at 1000 ANSI, opposed to the 800 I originally thought it was. I guess the jump up in light output can probably be the compensation for the possible throw distance.

My question has been answered.

I will assume that in general, not all cases but some; a higher light output is required for a longer throw distance.

Originally posted by Dream1
Ted,
Are you saying that light output is not dampened by distance?

In this case yes - for a constant screen area - as you move the PJ you must zoom the lens which concentrates (or spreads) more (or less) light on a given area. The key is constant area and a lens which gathers light and focuses it. If your area also increases (or decreases) as you move the unit then the intensity will change. Its the lens.

A brighter PJ becomes a factor when you wish to increase your screen size.

Hope this makes sense. This has been discussed in greater depth in other threads in the PJ forums.

ted

I've posted some impressions and pics of the Z3 on the uk avforums for anyone that's interested. In my opinion this is a fantastic projector, I've had the AE700 and am happier with the Z3 overall.

http://www.avforums.com/frame.html?http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161676

Cheers,
Andy.

Originally posted by TheFerret
This is not an absolute. Some have been able to tune discernible VB from their AE700's, but some have also noted they have not been able to remove it completely and were left with noticeable VB.

There is a whole thread on this on the Panny Forum, the solution is doing a "flicker tweak" apparently this makes a huge difference to VB should you have it. A lot of owners cant see VB at all, and those that can seem to think the flicker tweak does the job.

I guess it comes down to the fact that all these PJ's are unique to some degree, and some may be better than others.

Mark

Radeon 9600 with ATI catalyst 4.10 with DVI- D to HDMI at the Sanyo Z3 can not make the image inside the pj's image even with power strip.. ex. 1/3 of the "start" button is outside the frame.. how to adjust?

Originally posted by markbingo
There is a whole thread on this on the Panny Forum, the solution is doing a "flicker tweak" apparently this makes a huge difference to VB should you have it. A lot of owners cant see VB at all, and those that can seem to think the flicker tweak does the job.

I guess it comes down to the fact that all these PJ's are unique to some degree, and some may be better than others.

Mark
I know its a case by case basis, which is why I stated its not an absolute. I was present at someone's home and watching them use the flicker adjustment to tweak their AE700 and the VB was not removed completely.

And what Panasonic forum are you talking about? I didn't know there was a whole forum dedicated to Panasonic.

I can't see any options in the catalyst control center which gives you the option to finetune the image size?
The function in the powerstrip which should finetune the size is just making the image distorted?
My problem is that even though I put the mouse in the corners, I still can't see the outline of the desktop??
The only thing I have done is change from Z2 to Z3 and the cable between, which is now a Oehlbach DVI-D to HDMI??
The area which is outside is half of the taskbar and the same all around the image...???

I am quite frankly staggered at the amount of attention the AE700 is getting compared to this projector. Trust me, the Z3 deserves a lot of attention! I've had the AE700 and now the Z3 and the Z3 is better in my opinion, less noisy, less VB (and that's even after doing the flicker tweak on the AE700), better lens shift, sharper picture, no problem with the blacks (they're black!) etc etc....

Cheers,
Andy.

New technical review of the Z3 now up at cine4home.
Paul

I am really happy with my Z3 compared to Z2 but only if I can fix this stupid problem with the desktop outside pj's image...
Anyone any idea`???

Originally posted by Ludde
I am really happy with my Z3 compared to Z2 but only if I can fix this stupid problem with the desktop outside pj's image...
Anyone any idea`???

As I said in the other thread, you might wanna try to use function "OVERSCAN" which can be found in menu RGB>Advanced>Overscan.

It solved the problem to some people according to a French forum.

Adjust the Overscan setting to 0% under the Advance menu on the Z3. Default is at 10%!


Thanks to Li On!!!

Hmm, has anyone seen this problem? Happened twice yesterday, just sitting watching a movie and the image just went to how should I say, something like only 16colors and mostely green, the pj did not take any commands from the remote and not from the buttons on the pj either..
Had to switch off/on on the main power button, and the movie/image came back normal???

Ludde, somehow I could not call what you described as normal.

Well, I was surprised. First I thought it was something with the DVD but since the movie just continues as normal it has to be something with the pj...or?? (new Z3??)
I don't know how to describe it but it is almost like you see the image as the Predator see things, but with more green colors..!!??
I will try to get a screen shot if it happens again, could it be something with 10m Oehlbach DVI-D to HDMI cable?

It could be a problem with the cable such that its triggering something in the projector.

If it happens again I will take a screen shot and post it here and try with other cable, problem is that those cables are not for free....
Have you experienced similar things with cable problems?

In Canada the Z3 may possibly be attainable at realistic pricing so I'm wondering.....

How does the colour and contrast of the Z3 compare to the AE700?
(Cine4home review is not complete yet)

Any idea how the Z3 bulb life is going to be? Z1 short bulb life is still a concern.

This is my first post this forum, so hello everyone :-)

Here in the UK the sanyo z3 is around the same price as the infocus 4805. Does anyone have any idea of how the two compare? We've been able to get a demo of the 4805 and were very impressed but can only get the Z3 by mail order.

There are no HD transmissions in the UK (and unlikely to be for several years) so that aspect of the Z3 is less important, however UK PAL DVD's have 576 lines of vertical resolution so the 4805 scaler would be removing detail, whilst the z3 would be scaling up the picture.

We'll be using the projector in the living room with a 92" screen and whilst lights can be dimmed thee will a low ambient level at most times. From what I've read the 4805 is brighter when configured for video than the Z3. Also how does the contrast of the Z3 compare to the 4805, both are rated 2000:1?

Running costs worry worry me, the 4805 has 4000hr lamp life, the Z3 doesn't have published lamp life on the basis that it is the standard 2000hrs that means double the costs with the z3.

If anyone out there has experience of both the 4805 and the Z3 I'd really like to hear your opinions.

regards,

gbdrbob

Originally posted by zAndy12
I've posted some impressions and pics of the Z3 on the uk avforums for anyone that's interested. In my opinion this is a fantastic projector, I've had the AE700 and am happier with the Z3 overall.

http://www.avforums.com/frame.html?http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161676

Cheers,
Andy.

Andy,

Many thanks for the pics and comments.

Yesterday it happened alot! Watching Donnie Brasco and after 30-40min the image turned to "Predator look".
See pics, also from desktop...

okej image

desktop, my wallpaper is black in normal conditions..

I saw a demo today of the Z3. I was really impress I didn't think I would like it aven seen the Z2 before but this is a totally different machine to my eye.

The Vb is almost inexistant by the way. You really need to concentrate to see it and even then. I was also scared of the SDE but I can't see none unless im at 5 feet. Maybe im blind:confused: .

Anyway I really liked the overall picture. The black and contrast was not the best ever but it's really good none the less. Even compare to some DLP in my opinion.

Well anyway I really like it. So much that I bought it. :D

I will go get it this week. Woohoo !

if only my home theater was finish:mad: .

Thanks

I am starting to think the Z3 has not been getting its due respect.

With the exception of Ludde's weird problem, many that see this projector have a lot of praise for it.

For two grand it might be the projector upgrade to hold me over until the next significant improvements arrive.

I think it is a big improvement (when the image is working :-) but I am thinking the cable could be the problem, will try with shorter cable and see if the problem occurs again) from the Z2 I had the Z2 for 1year and now Z3 and for me the big difference is, this is out of the box:
No VB, I have really looked for it since I had it on my Z2.
Contrast is better.
Black is black. (this is comparing to Z2)
Subtitles are razor-sharp.
More functions in the menu, (I like).
I will even upgrade my screen to a 2,70meter tomorrow and see if it is still good.
In general I think it is just better on all the things that was lacking on the Z2....

Originally posted by TheFerret
And what Panasonic forum are you talking about? I didn't know there was a whole forum dedicated to Panasonic.

The Panny 700 forum is :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4632857#post4632857 now up to 128 pages

and the flicker tweak one is here :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=465849


Latest news from me is that I got my Panny 700 yesterday, and set it up last night. The picture (right out of the box) is awesome. I must be lucky cos I have absolutely no VB or peekaboo. Not a bit of it.

The picture is truly stunning, and coupled with the lens I have got a perfect installation on my back wall, very high up (almost touching the ceiling).

Just ordered the Z3 as an upgrade to my Z2 and keep the Z2 as a backup.

I will use my existing Carada High Contrast 80" diagonal with the Z3.

This combination should result in a detailed, bright, high contrast image.

I will post first impressions early next week.

Leedees

Please do give us your impression. I also want to hear more about any misconvergence issues too. I have a 2HD and would very much like to upgrade. I was told by Studio Experience that they will not be using the Z3 for their 3HD so I am seriously considering the Z3 over the Panny 700.

Any more info about the contrast and colour performance of the Z3? If the contrast is comparable to the AE700 then it may be an option.

What about Z2/Z3 bulb life? I asked about this in a separate thread. I'm still concerned about bulb life. The Z1 short bulb life reports have me concerned.

My experience with the Z2 lamp life was the first one dimmed a lot at about 1100 hours.

Second one went a bit longer and I am on the third lamp now.

I always run the projector with the lamp on high brightness.

Originally posted by HT Gearhead
Leedees

Please do give us your impression. I also want to hear more about any misconvergence issues too. I have a 2HD and would very much like to upgrade. I was told by Studio Experience that they will not be using the Z3 for their 3HD so I am seriously considering the Z3 over the Panny 700.

I will definitely post. I will have the Z3 tomorrow but then I am out of town for a couple days.

I will hopefully get it installed Thursday night and if so, I will post out of the box impressions and then more detailed observations next week.

Amazingly, I found a DVI/HDMI converter on the shelf at Best Buy. (I have DVI cable already run for the existing Z2) I wish the HDMI connectors were bolt-on like the DVI.

I simply cannot believe the lack of buzz surrounding the z3.. maybe because it has come out a little after the 2000:1 bombshell of the ae700 and people are still focused firmly on that.. seems odd though as i have now seen a demo of the 700 and the z3 and i have to say i preferred the z3. It has no vb at all and that right now is a real winner.. it is the one thing that bugged me into upgrading my z1, i found it really distracting. the 700 i saw had it, not as badly as the z1 granted but it was still there and clearly visible if you knew what to look for. I stared at the z3 for 30 minutes and never saw any vb.. not once and the picture was SLIGHTLY better than the 700.. it seemed more stable and less noisy plus there were fewer artifacts visible on screen(jaggies etc). Both were being fed interlaced signal from a denon dvd player via component inputs. Over all to my untrained eye the sanyo looks to be the better image, not to mention the incredible flexibility of the lens shift on the z3. I have ordered my z3 and will post opinions as soon as i get time, but in the meanwhile i would urge you all to check it out before you assume that all rambling on about the panny 700 means it is the better unit... there is an alternative out there that you might just find you prefer even if it is not getting all the props on a daily basis..let your eyes be the judge.

Agree, in my eyes the Z3 is the winner, not only because I bought it but I also sat and compare 700 vs. Z3.
Except my weird problem with the Z3, there was no problem to decide which one that was the winner!

I think that the lack of hype surrounding the Z3 is because of the Z2.

If you are coming to the video projector scene for the first time, and are considering a Sanyo, then the Z3 is an obvious choice. But there are an awful lot of Z2 owners out there who don't have so much to get excited about. In fact it wouldn't be far off the mark to suggest that the Z2 is the most popular projector in this sub $3500 category.

An upgrade for a slight improvement in picture quality is quite a hassle, especially for people who have spent most of the last year tweaking and setting their machines just the way they like them.

At least here in Japan there isn't much of a price difference between either model but, by the time someone sells their used Z2 for a reasonable amount, it is then more than a few hundred dollars to make up the difference to a Z3. For that kind of money I am looking for the kind of "WOW" I experienced when I first got my Z2.

Now, I have seen the Z3 up and running and in my opinion it just isn't worth the upgrade for the minor benefits of a slightly higher contrast and "better" blacks.

The kind of improvement I am hoping for won't be here for a little while yet. Until that time I prefer to save my pennies and enjoy the Z2. I may be alone in this opinion, but I doubt it.

Sean.

well i`m upgrading from a z1 so for me the upgrade IS worth it.. perhaps you would be tempted by a 1080p z model??? ;)
but my point was that the panasonic is getting soo much attention when it is, in effect not as good as the z3.. i mean there are TONS of people selling up their z2s to go for an ae700.. seem strange to anyone else?

Sean, I also had the Z2 before my Z3, but the lamp died on the Z2 and Z3 for me had all the things that the Z2 was lacking on, so for me it either was buy a new lamp or add some money and get a brand new Z3...
What improvement are you waiting for?

Whatever, Has anyone done any tweaks to Z3?
I am running my lamp on low, and I still had to lower the brightness and the contrast..
Anyone using the different modes for dark or bright environment?

i`m getting mine hopefully tomorrow but i`ll post my settings when i have run avia on it..

Originally posted by Ludde
Whatever, Has anyone done any tweaks to Z3?
I am running my lamp on low, and I still had to lower the brightness and the contrast..
Anyone using the different modes for dark or bright environment?

For me I cant really tweak right now im projecting on a tape to the wall canvas in my computer room. My home theater is not ready yet.:mad: :p

What type of screen you guy's are projecting on? I was thinking about a canvas with white paint on it.
I did some screen testing since I had screen sample from Da-lite, carada and a white canvas.

For all the screen I had the white canvas seem to give the better result.
I heard alot of fuzz around silver screen but I think it gives unnatural color and thing seem's to glow when white.

Anyway what screen you guy's are using ?

Thanks

Fred

I agree with Sean 100%.
I think there is less buzz about the Z3 because the Z2 was a smashing success. If I were to come onto the PJ scene at the moment, then the Z3 would be at the top of my list. The improvements are great over the Z2, but to me they still don't justify the upgrade hassle. Especially since individual models differ in quality by quite a margin.
When I got my Z2 a year ago. My first unit had color uniformity problems, so much so that I threatened SANYO with a lawsuit. They actually exchanged my unit for a brand new one at their factory in Toronto.
This Z2 is working perfectly for me. It's sharper than any other Z2's I have seen and the color uniformity as well.
Maybe I'll consider the Z4 or Z5 if they become available.

Still if people are new to the market, or have older PJs than the Z2, then the Z3 has real appeal.

Zed

well this seems to be the current word on screens... if your room is properly light controlled and the walls and furniture are dark +no reflective surfaces.. the best image is matt white 1 gain screen. if not then the high contrast grey screens are better. as for which of these to go for i would read the posts. I have light control and dark blue carpet on the walls so i`m using a da-lite 1 gain matt white screen 106" diagona and the image is great on my z1. if i were watching in ambient light i would consider the grey screens. if you cannot stretch to a stewart greyhawk or firehawk, there are other cheaper ones.. i have heard some good things about the draper high contrast grey screens, they are very reasonably priced.

I'm still using a DIY Misty Evening screen. It works great for me. Better than a lot of expensive screens I have seen.
My #1 importance was reduced SDE.
#2 better contrast (white ceiling)
(it probably has a 0.7 gain)

Zed

For my screen, I think ill try a matt white solution and go from there.

Can't go wrong with matt white !

thanks

Fred

Originally posted by Ludde
Sean, I also had the Z2 before my Z3, but the lamp died on the Z2 and Z3 for me had all the things that the Z2 was lacking on, so for me it either was buy a new lamp or add some money and get a brand new Z3...
What improvement are you waiting for?

A significant improvement.

For now the Z3 is simply a Z2 Mark II.

Sean.

Check out the severtson screens at projector packages dot com. Their high contrast screens are reasonable and their picture is great. I would say Firehawk quality. By the way, does anybody know about the projector packages dot coms tuesady night insane sales? What do they sell on those nights?

Originally posted by Seanrm
A significant improvement.

For now the Z3 is simply a Z2 Mark II.


The HS51 should be the real Z2 upgrade.

Hi There Ludde, I saw your problem with the PLV-Z3.

I guess you are running 1280*720 when you get this 16 colors predator look. The only way is to take the cable or use the power button back ?

Kind Regards
KaNoBi

The Z3 has better contrast and more saturated colors.

It has a serious issue on the HDMI inputs when playing 720p. The issue is...it won't play 720p on the HDMI inputs.

The component looks great but it ain't HDMI.

"For now the Z3 is simply a Z2 Mark II"

try calling the panasonic ae700 the ae500 mk II and see how many people get agitated by that... ;) it`s just as valid a comment though, the only difference is the lens shift and it`s only an addition because panasonic didnt have the forethought to add it to earlier models.. ever heard of the phrase `immitation is the sincerest form of flattery??` seriously though, and this is just my opinion of course but why any manufacturer would not add lens shift to a projector designed for home cinema use is beyond me...i`m sure i would have gone dlp by now if they would just all get the message that lens shift is essential in the world of WAF... if i didnt have lens shift, i wouldnt have an 8ft cinema image in my lounge i`d have a 32" tv... LENS SHIFT RULES!!!!!! hehehhe

"For now the Z3 is simply a Z2 Mark II"

In my opinion the Z2 and the Z3 are two completly different machine.
I would had never bought a Z2 due to VB and low contrast and poor saturation. But then the Z3 has fairly good contrast, good saturation and no VB. I think it's not just a small upgrade. It put's the LCD to the level of DLP without Rainbow.

But then again that's just me.

Thanks

Fred

hi everyone

i am new to projectors:p and i wonder if there is a significant difference between a lcd(Z3, panny 700) to a DLP (in the same price range). after reading forums etc. i got the impression that DLP:s are far superior in terms of punch and depth in the picture compared to a lcd(Z3, panny 700)

so have anyone seen one of these lcd:s side by side with a dlp and what did you think in terms of punch and depth, does the DLP make the lcd look terrible.

THANKS IN ADVANCE:D

Let me get this straight.

Z3's have less or no vertical banding when compared with the AE700?

Are Z3 owners reporting fewer instances of vertical banding because:

Z3 owners are seeing vb but it is less severe when they do see it?
Z3 owners who see vertical banding are finding it easy to eliminate?
Z3 owners are not seeing vb at all period?

Thanx

:)

I've had the AE700 and the Z3 and the Z3 has less VB than the AE700 I had and that was after doing the flicker tweak on the AE700. Whether it's just a good Z3 and a bad AE700 I don't know but I can tell you I much prefer the image I'm getting with the Z3 compared to what I was getting with the AE700..

Andy

'It has a serious issue on the HDMI inputs when playing 720p. The issue is...it won't play 720p on the HDMI inputs'

And where did you hear that... mine's playing 720p on the HDMI input just fine thanks

Andy

Originally posted by ZoomAir
hi everyone

i am new to projectors:p and i wonder if there is a significant difference between a lcd(Z3, panny 700) to a DLP (in the same price range). after reading forums etc. i got the impression that DLP:s are far superior in terms of punch and depth in the picture compared to a lcd(Z3, panny 700)

so have anyone seen one of these lcd:s side by side with a dlp and what did you think in terms of punch and depth, does the DLP make the lcd look terrible.

THANKS IN ADVANCE:D

I think that in general DLP has better contrast and better saturation but not that much. The Z3 and panny 700 has catch up a lot on the DLP. They are now comparable to most DLP in my opinion. Then you have to take into account that LCD (for the price) has way more resolution and has lens shift. Two month's ago I would had never thought of buying a LCD. But now I own a Z3 because of the recent im provement. If you only watch DVD and are not bother by rainbow then go for DLP. If you wan't to view HDTV or can't stand Rainbow then go for LCD in my opinion.

I think the race is really close right now between LCD and DLP. The choice is your's to make. I think people really need to go out there and check out the DLP and LCD. Don't buy projector blindly.

Then again you have to take all this with a grain of salt because the difference between both technology are in my opinion sometimes really subtle.

Originally posted by cpc
Let me get this straight.

Z3's have less or no vertical banding when compared with the AE700?

Are Z3 owners reporting fewer instances of vertical banding because:

Z3 owners are seeing vb but it is less severe when they do see it?
Z3 owners who see vertical banding are finding it easy to eliminate?
Z3 owners are not seeing vb at all period?

Thanx

:)

On my Z3 there is a litle bit of VB but that's when I'm looking hard for it. I never saw the AE700 but I saw the Z2 before and to me the VB was unbearable.

There is also a function on the Z3 to eliminate VB that I didn't try yet. Maybe it can be tweak to not have VB at all. That would be awesome.

Thanks

Fred

hi Frichard

thanks for your reply

i have watched several projectors in stores both dlp:s and lcd:s but none side by side, however i felt that there wasn't a significant diffrance between the toshiba MT200 (which is a great dlp in this pricerange) and the Z3 which is a great LCD in this price range. but after reading all the forums i got the impression that the dlp:s was far superior in punch and depth, but i didn't think that it was that much of a difference.

i also wonder on cine4home website (German tuning company) they managed to get about 2018:1 with a filter tuning and perfect colors on the panny 700 but they only managed to get about 1800:1 from the infocus 4805 does this mean that the panny after this tuning has a deeper black level or is the black level not directly related to the contrast.

and if they measured 2018:1 for the panny and 1800:1 for the 4805 doesn't this figures say that the lcd after this particular tuning is the better projector in terms of contrast which seems to be the strongest argument for getting a dlp

THANKS IN ADVANCE

Originally posted by fretlessmusic
"For now the Z3 is simply a Z2 Mark II"

try calling the panasonic ae700 the ae500 mk II and see how many people get agitated by that... ;) it`s just as valid a comment though, the only difference is the lens shift and it`s only an addition because panasonic didnt have the forethought to add it to earlier models.. ever heard of the phrase `immitation is the sincerest form of flattery??` seriously though, and this is just my opinion of course but why any manufacturer would not add lens shift to a projector designed for home cinema use is beyond me...i`m sure i would have gone dlp by now if they would just all get the message that lens shift is essential in the world of WAF... if i didnt have lens shift, i wouldnt have an 8ft cinema image in my lounge i`d have a 32" tv... LENS SHIFT RULES!!!!!! hehehhe


Ive gone rom the AE500 to the AE700.The difference between the 2 is huge.
Even my wife immediately realized how much better the image was with the AE700.
I also upgraded from AE300 to AE500.That to be honest was not as big a upograde.
Seriously its not a valid comment.Better colours,better blacks,better contrast,brighter seems a smoother image ,after tweak absolutely no VB or FPN on my AE700.
How much of a improvement do they have to make to satisfy some people.Oh yeah and a 2 year warranty here in Australia as well as being half the price that the AE500 was.I think this argument is valid with the Z3 as it seems a similar machine.

Waiting for the cine4home Z3 write-up to finish. That and the Z3 vs AE700 shootout :)

WOW,

I just finish tweaking my Z3. It's just a first draft but my god the picture is really far from my expectation. It was Really good before but now it's incredible. There is a setting call Contrast enhancement that really pop out the picture.

I'm so happy with my purchase. Woohoo:D

I can't wait to finish my Home Theater.

By the way the PJ is incredibly silent. Ive been tweaking for one hour and the heating system makes more noise then the Z3.

Well I'm happy:p

Thanks

Fred

Originally posted by zAndy12
'It has a serious issue on the HDMI inputs when playing 720p. The issue is...it won't play 720p on the HDMI inputs'

And where did you hear that... mine's playing 720p on the HDMI input just fine thanks

Andy

Hi Andy

There is infact a problem on the HDMI input 1280*720 (720p), How
ever Iam glad you dont have this problem, Please share your configuration with us who really struggles with this problem, hardware/signal type 1280*720 (720p) 50Hz or 59.94Hz, cabel type and so on.

If you want to read about this problem please visit this thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=467724

Mine to plays fine on 1280*720 (720p) to it locks up and presents garbage on the screen, Iam never sure i can watch a complete movie/presentation without a lock. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesnt.

Even Sanyo was afraid this problem was on them all.

Kind regards
KaNoBi

Ok, I am using a Lumagen VisionHDP set to output 720p @ 59.94Hz. Source is a Pioneer 868Avi (59avi) HDMI output set to 720p (as the Lumagen currently won't take a 480i signal on it's DVI inputs). I have a DVI cable between the dvd player and the Lumagen with a HDMI->DVI adaptor at the dvd player end. I then have a 7.5m Lindy DVI cable with a DVI->HDMI adaptor at the projector end. I have had no lock ups, watched 3 films all the way through without a problem. I will keep an eye on this for sure..

Cheers,
Andy.

The nice thing about Sanyo is that they will fix the problem with a frimware update unlike Panasonic.

Originally posted by zAndy12
Ok, I am using a Lumagen VisionHDP set to output 720p @ 59.94Hz. Source is a Pioneer 868Avi (59avi) HDMI output set to 720p (as the Lumagen currently won't take a 480i signal on it's DVI inputs). I have a DVI cable between the dvd player and the Lumagen with a HDMI->DVI adaptor at the dvd player end. I then have a 7.5m Lindy DVI cable with a DVI->HDMI adaptor at the projector end. I have had no lock ups, watched 3 films all the way through without a problem. I will keep an eye on this for sure..

Cheers,
Andy.

Hi Andy, Thanks for your answer, I can see one things that differ your configuration from my configuration you are feeding 59.94 and I feeds 50hz.

Maybe the problem is there ?.

I have also been able to watch 3 movies like you without any problems. But for now iam feeding only 1080i to avoid lock up and hard reset ON/OFF power button.

Kind regards
KaNoBi

Originally posted by Monkey_Man
The nice thing about Sanyo is that they will fix the problem with a frimware update unlike Panasonic.

Monkey_Man, I agree with you. I don't worry a bit and i know Sanyo will fix this problem shortly. Sanyo have always been very professional to me and always gived me very good service and support. Thats one of the reasons I stick with Sanyo.

Like the wizdom says. You know what you have, the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence.

Kind regards
KaNoBi

Well put.

I had the focus uniformity problem with my Z2. Called on a Monday and the PJ fixed and back by Friday!

So contrast and black levels vs the AE700 are good. Nobody thinks the AE700 is alot better in that respect? Colour is good? Gamma curve? 6500K colour temp?

The AE700 is suffering from the flashes, cropping on HMDI and possibly worse vb.

If Sanyo bulb life has improved, then its worth it.
Come to think of it, if I recall, there were far more Sanyo Z2 and Studio Experience 2HD owners who answered the poll, so there should be lots of people with bulb life experience with the Z2 by now. I only hope the Z2/Z3 bulb life ends up averaging as high or very close to the Panasonic PJ bulb life averages.

What is Sanyo's current bulb policy for Canada and the US?

Their bulb policy is 500 hours or 90 days which ever comes first. They are very quick to replace bulbs. I have done it twice. Sometimes you just get a bad bulb. The last bulb they sent me is very good and has had no problems for a long time. I have about 2000 hours on my Z2. I run it all day long. I can see it getting dull, but with the lights off, it looks great! I would go with the sanyo z3 if purchasing a projector. I would then by a severtson corp screen and you will get a great picture that you wont believe!