If you do not have light control for your room you will probably want a healthier gain screen. I have seen Brian's setup and the incandescent canned lighting (and sconces) do add a nice amount of ambient light if desired, but this is pale in comparison to daylight. What kind of ambient light will you be having or dealing with?

Originally posted by usabrian
I just wanted to post again and let people who are looking at this projector know that the "brightness issue" is a red herring in my opinion for anyone with a light controlled room. If anything, I find myself wishing I could tone down the whites at times, and save a filter I cannot. Being a CRT guy I am used to a very movie theater like picture with whites that don't hurt the eyes and at times they do just that with the HS51 and a 1.3 gain screen.
Have you tried backing off the contrast. I had the same issue going from a CRT to the HS51. Whenever a movie switched from a dark scene to a bright scene I would have to squint and at the end of the movie had eyestrain. My setup is probably more extreme since I have a small 72" wide 1.5 gain screen, which was good for a dim 7" CRT PJ but probably too much gain for a digital PJ in a dark room. I currently have the contrast at 45 and the brightness at 36, which has eliminated the eyestrain. I'm planning to look into a lower gain screen, possibly 1.0 gain matte white.

Happy Day! Finally, two full months after ordering, I just got word that my projector has shipped. Fingers crossed for no problems.

Bigscreen,

In regards to your question to Brian about brightness. I had a chance to take my HS51 over to a persons house that has a 133" diagonal Draper M2500. First of all this screen was huge! We were 16 plus feet away from the screen and the HS51 was in low lamp mode. All I can say paired with this screen the image was not dim at all. Granted this screen has a gain of 2.1 (Per draper website) but the screen was huge. I am not sure what screen you are planing to use but any screen with a gain of 1.3 should produce satisfactory results.

Originally posted by EHUFF
Happy Day! Finally, two full months after ordering, I just got word that my projector has shipped. Fingers crossed for no problems.
Congradulations!
It's been a long wait since Daniel's house in late September ...huh? I wasn't as patient as you. But - I'm finally very pleased w/ my Panny 700 - although I had to work through a myriad of problems and work-arounds. And now I hear that Panasonic will be showing a newer model at CES!

Good luck w/ your new toy!

Please give us a full report once it's up and running.

Thanks John, If there are no problems that make me ship the projector back, I'll try to get ahold of Daniel and ask him to help me find a place for a demonstration that anyone in the Los Angeles area will be welcome to.

I am considering a 120" wide (137" Diagonal, 16x9) screen to use with the hs50, in a completely light controlled room. That is, pitch black. I just tested my old Sharp xv-s55u, 600 lumen projector at that size and brightness was not a real issue. The massively sized pixels were. Given this, for those who have used it, will it be acceptable?

Euroflier,

The HS50 is not out of the market in Spain. I received mine from my dealer on Friday, 24th. He had four units more in his backoffice.

For the record, the main offices and warehouse for Spain is not sited in Madrid. The warehouse is in a small village near Barcelona called Viladecavalls (the warehouse is bigger than the whole town) and the main showroom is in Barcelona (Sabino de Arana Street, 42-44).

Have fun,
Sergio

Originally posted by TheFerret
Eric, there are several selectable modes for 'black'. What happens if this is set to off? Also, someone noted that with sharpness increased from zero to 35 his comparisons were dramatic in terms of ringing being introduced. This may have been in this threead or the tweak thread.

i have ran through every available setup scheme with no luck, it is still there. my current settings are black level to off, sharpness to 0, gamma to 0, contrast at 65, brightness at 55, lamp to low, cinema, auto iris. sharpness to max increases the ringing slightly, reducing it to 0 decreases the ringing slightly. oh well.

eric

But you are in Cinema mode, no? What were the other modes that this one is categorized in?

Ehuff, two whole months, huh? That's not long at all. I know someone that ordered in late September and he's still going to be waiting come January 1st. I ordered from the same place as he a month after him. LOL

Oh Frabjous joy! Wife just got a call today from the Calgary Sony store that our HS50 has arrived and we can pick it up. Unfortunately I was out ATV'ing so will have to wait until tomorrow morning to pick it up. This was supposed to be my Christmas present. The salesman promised my wife he'd have it in for the 25th but apparently shipping was delayed. I'm hoping to translate my huge Christmas morning dissapointment ;) into a freebie HDMI-DVI cable otherwise I'll have to use VGA for the HTPC and component for the Xbox.

Yeah baby! Its been killing me having ROTK EE and some other Xmas prezzie DVD's sitting there. I refused to watch them on our old 32" Sony. More to follow from this PJ newbie.

Originally posted by TheFerret
But you are in Cinema mode, no? What were the other modes that this one is categorized in?

Ehuff, two whole months, huh? That's not long at all. I know someone that ordered in late September and he's still going to be waiting come January 1st. I ordered from the same place as he a month after him. LOL

yes, i am in cinema mode now, but went through all the other modes, with different settings, i've tried everything. still ringing.

Ronin, that is good news. So, supplies keep trickling in from many sources. Eric (ericeash), that does not sound good about the ringing. Try another input?

Silly question... what's the difference between the HS50 and the HS51?

Thanks,

HS51 is for the USA and HS50 is for everyone but the Americans. Also, HS50 does not have the Ethernet port. There seems to be some questions, though, as to whether or not the HS50 comes with the Gamma PC software that does come with the HS51.

Aside from this, I am not sure what other differences there are.

The HS50 does not come with the Gamma software. I am going to try and find out if I can obtain it.

Mark

Originally posted by mpauline
The HS50 does not come with the Gamma software. I am going to try and find out if I can obtain it.

Mark

Doesn't it also need the USB port to work though Mark? I assume the HS50 doesn't have a USB port either despite what the Sonystyle Candada site says. Store opens in 35 minutes, can't wait. :)

Originally posted by TheFerret
I'm often amazed at the level of flexibility I have in accommodating things I could tame into submission.

So, a hishbox is out of the question? Is the room decor of higher priority? Just continuing to be curious, as you would not be the first to mention throw-distance & forward-mounted projector (and intolerable hushbox options) as something that will not be entertained.

Ok, just thought I would ask. :) BTW, I will be using a quote-unquote hushbox, but for me it has nothing to do with sound. It just solves another concerned issue. Will you be considering the 10K as B-stock or new?

A hushbox would not be out of the question, but I'd like to avoid it if at all possible for a variety of reasons. The first is headroom. The ceiling is only 7.5' high the way it is, and any box coming down from that is going to cramp things, especially if it's where people may walk. Also, the room was created not just for home theater use, but also for entertaining, my wife's scrapbook parties, etc. and having a wart coming out of the ceiling wouldn't be the most attractive thing in the world.

Based on the assumption that I would not be using a projector that had a really short throw, I ran my electrical power and the 3" PVC conduit to service a couple of mounting positions near the back of the room. Ideally, I'd like to be able to mount the projector on a shelf on the back wall, which is 20' away from the screen. The Sharp 10k & 12k (and the Pan 700) would fit that ideal position.

While the HS51 would have to be mounted forward of that position, my hope is that the mounting distance would not be troublesome, but I haven't done the calculations on that yet (probably should get on that...).

I was considering getting a b-stock 10k, but after talking with a few people, it seems that b-stock and refurbished projectors don't have the best reliability track record. I'd really rather not have to hassle with something after making such a large and important purchase (if the projector is in repair, the home theater is useless), so reliability is a factor for me.


All that said, my dealer just called last night to say that a HS51 has finally arrived in their warehouse. I'm waiting for them to open to find out the details (like if they have more than just a single showroom unit), but I'm hoping to go and demo it alongside the 10k on the same screen today.

HS50 does have the USB port, but not the Ethernet port. I could be wrong, though.

>>>>>>__Where is the HS-51 + IMX powerbuy?__<<<<<<<<<<<<

Phil, I would like to see evidence (in pictures or in person) of this combination (HS51+IMX), and made such a request a month or two ago in the IMX thread. No takers thus far.

These projectors seem to have arrived, well if not in quantity, at least more than a trickle. I decided to buy yeasterday and found 3 places with them in stock. So, I'm expecting my projector via 2nd day tommorrow.

Yea!

John

Ferret,

I've got the HS51+IMX combination. Very nice! I'm sitting 12' from a 110" diagonal, and the IMX really does a good job on reducing SDE. Honestly I didn't think the SDE was all that bad even without the IMX, although it was certainly visible in some scenes. But now that I've lived with the IMX for a couple of days, I definitely wouldn't give it up.

It may be a few days before I can whip up some good comparison photos, but I'll try to do it as soon as I get a chance.

David Giles

David, any chance you could break out a camera and take a couple of pictures with the IMX in-place/not-in-place?

Dear all,

I sent a message to CHIEF yesterday inquiring whether they would bring out a dedicated mounting kit for the VPL-HS50/51, as it's not yet listed on their site.

Please find their reply and details below !!

--------
Hello David,

Thanks for your recent inquiry and for your interest in Chief products. Chief has both a model specific and universal mounting option for the Sony VPL-HS50/51 projector. The universal solution consists of our UPA series universal projector mount (UPA1001, UPA1002 or UPA1003), which is stocked in our Amsterdam warehouse.

Our model specific mount is the RPA102, and you would need additional accessories such as a ceiling plate and extension column. For complete specifications and features on both of these products, please visit our website (www.chiefmfg.com), or contact me if you have additional questions. I have also attached our catalog page for the RPA series, and I have attached our Europe Product Guide, which contains info on the UPA series, and other products stocked in our Amsterdam warehouse.

Thanks and Regards,

Mark Ley
International Sales
Chief Manufacturing, Inc.
www.chiefmfg.com

Sure I can do a couple of quick and dirty shots. Give me a few minutes.

David Giles

David, I assume you are you using the BW material? How is the brightness?

Originally posted by Tweakophyte
Lonnie-

Am I reading this correctly that with a decent signal (source) you can sit almost 1.0x the screen width? That is with the HS51? Did you demo a Panny AE700 or avoid it with the issues you read about? What swayed you to the HS51?

Thanks,
Warren-


Warren,

I bought this sight unseen. I based my purchase decision mainly off of this forum as well as reading through 20 home theater magazines purchased during the last 12 months. I was concerned about the vertical banding issues in the Panny AE700 that were posted my several different owners. My projector is ceiling mounted and it would be difficult to turn off the power each day. My neighbor has a NEC HT1000 DLP with an anamorphic lens and he was really impressed (slightly jealous) with the picture from the Sony.

I watched Shrek 2 last night on DVD and it was terrific. My projector is not calibrated yet, still need to purchase digital video essentials, but using the default cinema black mode (auto iris on, lamp low, and color temp low) the picture is great in the dark. My wife wanted to turn on a lamp in the back of the room to crochet for a while and then the picture dims considerably. I switched to the standard setting which I believe is still in lamp low mode and the picture was brighter. There is also a dynamic setting which places the lamp in high mode. Sitting directly below the projector, I could here the projector (a slight buzz) when the lamp is on high. When the lamp is low, I hear nothing.

My only issue with the projector is using my HTPC connected with a 35' VGA connection. I do not have the ability to switch to 1280 x 720 in the display seetings, so by using 1288 x 768 I get an inch or so of black bars along the sides, and I haven't been able to figure out how to fix it. I downloaded powerstrip but it hasn't worked yet either, I need more time to tinker.

My wife gave me permission to get a HD TIVO so I'm trying to get one soon, bfore she changes her mind.

Okay these are just quick shots with no attention paid to focus, lighting, alignment, etc.


David Giles

David Giles

David Giles

LOL, I meant pictures of the results on the screen.

Oh, sorry. In my first post about the IMX I said "It may be a few days before I can whip up some good comparison photos, but I'll try to do it as soon as I get a chance." So I just assumed you meant photos of the lens itself (which is much easier)

Anyway, I'll try to do the comparison photos soon.

David Giles

ay221,

Right now I'm using Classic Cinema White (because that's what I already had up). The brightness is okay in a light-controlled room, but Brilliant White might be a better choice on this size screen. I'll be trying it out as soon as I get some spare time.

David Giles

Originally posted by lonniehansenjr
My only issue with the projector is using my HTPC connected with a 35' VGA connection. I do not have the ability to switch to 1280 x 720 in the display seetings, so by using 1288 x 768 I get an inch or so of black bars along the sides, and I haven't been able to figure out how to fix it. I downloaded powerstrip but it hasn't worked yet either, I need more time to tinker.
Powerstrip has a few predefined 1280x720@60Hz settings that work fine with the HS51. You need to click the Custom Resolutions button under the Advanced Timing Options menu. Try the 1280x720 HDTV setting, it worked for me. Select it then click the Add New Resolution button.

With any of the settings, you will need to fine tune the projector settings to get 1 to 1 pixel mapping and shift the image around to see all the pixels. See this post in the tweaks thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4862513#post4862513) for some test patterns and tips.

Originally posted by RoninTech
Doesn't it also need the USB port to work though Mark? I assume the HS50 doesn't have a USB port either despite what the Sonystyle Candada site says. Store opens in 35 minutes, can't wait. :)


:o Yes RoninTech it does need the USB port which I just realized the HS50 does not have.

Well I couldn't be happier (I know, ignorance is bliss ;)) with our first PJ. Picked it up this morning and have been playing with it since. Wife's mad because I forgot to eat lunch I've been so enthralled.

Setup:

Hooked it up to our HTPC (Asus 9600XT) via VGA->Input A and to our Xbox via component. Was quickly able to get beautiful 1:1 mapping over VGA using the method described in the tweak thread. Loaded the pixel pics and confirmed that from 18" or closer a 1 pixel shift of the green panel can be observed. Blue and red appear to be fine. Beyond 18" this is not a factor for our viewing. The screen height is ~48" so that makes it an 8' image. Currently we are projecting onto our grey basement wall and the PJ is sitting in between us on a couple of boxes in front of the couch. Viewing distance is at 2x (16'). A major league mickey mouse setup. However, even with these factors we are both astounded at the picture quality. Windows desktop is beautiful. From 16' away we can both surf the net effortlessly. I can see this becoming my main computer monitor. Our Xbox runs XBMC and games, videos, pictures etc. are great over the component connection. I can't believe we were able to play Halo on a 32" screen after seeing it on a 96" one.

Brightness:

Put some sheets over the basement windows and was able to enjoy the picture in a non/poorly light controlled environment. The brightness of this PJ is not an issue for us, even on low lamp. Now that its evening the picture is even better as the basement is now 99.9% pitch black. Beautiful bright colors and this is on a grey painted wall.

Screen Door:

It does have it. However with my better than 20/20 Lasik induced bionic eyes I can only see it from about 10 feet or closer. Beyond that its gone and I haven't detuned the focus.

Noise:

What Noise? Seriously this thing is currently sitting right beside us and is inaudible on low. When I build/buy a ceiling mount even high would be fine.

Cons:

Would have to be price. Wasn't cheap at basically Canadian MSRP but man what a picture. Also on a pure white background a gradient change of blueish white on the left side going to reddish white on the right can be observed. It is definitely tweakable via even the basic menus as I was able to make the whole screen uniform but in doing so I probably made it all bluish or all reddish so I put it back to default. Can't notice this on anything but a full screen white backround.

HS50 has no USB and no Image Director software.

We're off to go watch Shrek2 followed by ROTK EE. Add me to the thoroughly satisfied list of HS50/51 purchasers.

A local dealer called last night to say that they had an HS51 in the warehouse, so I went in today to get to know the projector and compare it head-to-head with the Sharp 10k they had.

After a couple of hours of adjusting, viewing, adjusting, switching DVD players, etc. I brought the HS51 home. The picture quality was very good, even though I thought that the PQ from the 10k was just a little better. However, the small uptick in performance did not justify the $2700 difference in the price that I could each of them for.

We started out with a Mitsubishi DVD player (don't know the model number) connected via Component, and it didn't pass the first round of adjustments before we started looking for something else to replace it with. The text on the THX Opimizer pages was difficult to read, and there some other video anomolies that weren't very good at all. It wasn't passing Pluge, so adjusting the brightness was difficult.

We found an LG HDMI player (have to find out what the model number was), and connecting it via Component was much better than the Mitsubishi, and then switching to HDMI at 720p was a very cool increase in the test pattern performance! We definitely liked the look of the HDMI over the Component input, but they were pretty close and probably would not be all that noticeable on normal viewing.

One problem I was having when adjusting the contrast while using the HDMI input was that the 8 boxes in the Contrast pattern were very difficult to distinguish no matter what contrast setting we used. Switching back to Component made them very easy to see. Adjusting the brightness had no appreciable effect on the ability better see the 8 boxes on the Contrast pattern.

Any ideas why the whites would be crushed through HDMI and not through the Component input? Has anyone else experienced this?

Has anybody tried a very high gain screen like the Vutec Silver Star (6.0) with the HS51 yet? Approximately what amount of gain would a black screen have?

Originally posted by ericlhyman
Has anybody tried a very high gain screen like the Vutec Silver Star (6.0) with the HS51 yet?
Despite the specs, the DaLite High Power has higher peak gain than the SilverStar and I believe at least one person has mentioned using the HS51 with a High Power.

--Darin

Well, I use my HS51 with an insta-theater screen which is a 2.2 gain screen. I'm not really sure what your interested in knowing. But with the higher gain screen I can use my projecter with a moderate amount of ambient light, which isn't that bad considering that the projector doesn't put out that much light.

Originally posted by Crockett
Our model specific mount is the RPA102, and you would need additional accessories such as a ceiling plate and extension column.

So if one doesn't need to lower the projector, then everything should be included in the RPA102 package for a normal flush mount. Does everyone agree? Because I plan on ordering this for my upcoming HS51.

Originally posted by RoninTech
Also on a pure white background a gradient change of blueish white on the left side going to reddish white on the right can be observed. It is definitely tweakable via even the basic menus as I was able to make the whole screen uniform but in doing so I probably made it all bluish or all reddish so I put it back to default. Can't notice this on anything but a full screen white backround.


Sounds like the color uniformity/purity problem that I noticed on my old HS20. Had to get rid of that projector because the issue was driving me crazy when looking at images of skies, snow, etc. Hopefully it's not as bad on the HS50/51 as it was on most of the HS20 units.

Any other owners care to comment? I always found it was most noticeable when displaying a gray background. One side of the screen was slightly red and the other slightly blue.

Hmm, I didn't going looking for this issue, that Ronin describes and Wizziwig recounts on.

Originally posted by Wizziwig
Sounds like the color uniformity/purity problem that I noticed on my old HS20. Had to get rid of that projector because the issue was driving me crazy when looking at images of skies, snow, etc. Hopefully it's not as bad on the HS50/51 as it was on most of the HS20 units.

Any other owners care to comment? I always found it was most noticeable when displaying a gray background. One side of the screen was slightly red and the other slightly blue.

I have the exact same color uniformity issue w/ my Panny 700. Mostly noticeable to me on B&W films. Maybe it's an LCD thing.

i don't have a huge color unifority issue on my hs50, but on an all black screen, there is a slight green tint in the upper right corner. but this projector is going back anyways.

eric

Originally posted by John Ballentine
I have the exact same color uniformity issue w/ my Panny 700. Mostly noticeable to me on B&W films. Maybe it's an LCD thing.

While not an expert in this area, it has been my experience that this is the case. I have noticed this on quite a few LCD projectors to some degree or another. (Z2, AE500, IF5000 and an Epson for which I have forget the model now.)
I keep hoping to find an LCD projector that will satisfy my visual senses so I can get a 720p projector and not break-the-bank. I have yet to see the HS51. Maybe it will be the one, but for now the IF4805 is my projector. I still have a couple of months before I need to make the purchase, so I'm not in a big rush.

--Eric

Just some clarification before panic sets in ;). The color uniformity I mentioned is very subtle. I was looking for it (and VB, SDE etc.) in all the movies I watched yesterday and didn't see it anywhere. The only way it shows on my PJ is if the full width of the screen is pure white and then only if you get to stare at it for a while. It doesn't jump out and grab you where it hurts, its more of a hmm, am I seeing that. I only came accross is it as I experimented with various entire screen solid colors using the windows desktop.

I know that in my readings on this site I've seen this described on pretty much every LCD PJ. Not every single PJ but at least one of each PJ model. I also seem to recollect that many (if not all) of them allow for the tuning out of this phenomonom via the service menu. Although I seem to recollect it was a laborious process.

Would someone who previously owned an HS20 or has compared the two kindly comment on the differences. I moved from an HS10 to an HS20 last year and the improvement was significant. I have mixed thoughts about the HS51 -- but it is now waiting for me for local pickup at the dealer. Before buying, I've been trying to read comments from prior HS20 users, but have seen very few.

My biggest concerns are brightness (I like my pictures brighter, and the HS51 seems to be dimmer based on comments) and resolution -- is the lower resolution on the HS51 compared to the HS20 significant? I use it for both HD, DVD and HTPC.

Thanks in advance.

Ross

If black levels are important to you then I would say it would be a big improvement but if resolution and SDE are more important that it is likely the HS20 would be better for your needs, marginally. Also, remember that you can change to high lamp mode and Iris Off with the HS51 to get a much brighter image.


Brian

Originally posted by usabrian
If black levels are important to you then I would say it would be a big improvement but if resolution and SDE are more important that it is likely the HS20 would be better for your needs, marginally. Also, remember that you can change to high lamp mode and Iris Off with the HS51 to get a much brighter image.

Brian

Fair enough, but does high lamp mode and iris off defeat the point of the HS51 (i.e. better contrast?). If that's how I would end up watching, I am guessing that I should stick with the HS20 unless there are other advantages of the HS51 that I am missing, compared to the HS20.

Ross

Ross, you are in Chicage. Is there no brick and mortar dealer with a demo unit installed for you to make a direct comparison since you already have the HS20?

My local Fry's now appears to be carrying the HS51 as I just left there trying to show the guy how to set it up, LOL. He said they just came in earlier today! Fry's has a nice return policy btw, so this would be a great place to purchase one if you need that.

The only problem was they have their projectors about 30 feet back projecting on a 8 foot wide 4:3 screen shooting through plain old glass via a composite cable. Not ideal to say the least. The image was about 16 feet wide on the 8 foot wide screen!

Brian

Brian, I was in there today at about 11AM. They had not installed it yet, and they do not accept returns on projectors, just exchanges within 30-days. They did say they offered price-match for other retailers, and Eric's info has peak my curiosity.

Originally posted by TheFerret
Ross, you are in Chicage. Is there no brick and mortar dealer with a demo unit installed for you to make a direct comparison since you already have the HS20?

Plenty. Moreover, I'll be at CES next week. The problem is that I have absolutely no talent in comparing projectors on different screens, in different rooms, with different lighting conditions. I am sure it will look great at CES and at a local dealer -- the only question I care about is whether it would look great in my room. That's why I was asking people who upgraded from the HS20, to compare using their prior setup (screen, room etc). That's really the closest one can come to trying it out in your own setup.

One thing I noticed was commentary that the picture was soft. How does that compare to the HS20?

Ross

I thought it was 15 days with those and 30 days everything else but you might be correct.

Brian

I was actually suggesting you take your projector into someone else's showroom. I helped a friend do this, and the boutique was just as curious, too. While the end result would be noting a difference on whatever screen they are using, you could draw some conclusions.

As for the softness I have not noticed this, and being +2300 posts in this thread alone its difficult to remember exactly what others had said in this case. I did notice a softness with SmoothScreen, which is a technology which Panasonic is using, but that is about it.

One thing I noticed was commentary that the picture was soft.

Soft is the last way I would describe the picture from the Sony HS51. Heck, as a CRT guy (Barco 808) I would love to see what "sharp" looks like then. My HS51 is way sharper than my 8-in CRT Barco dialed in perfectly. You see this on desktops but for movie viewing it is less apparent and some say it creates a more film-like experience. But now that I have seen the way a movie looks dialed in sharply I dont know if I can go back...

Brian

My HS51 was delivered yesterday. I pre-ordered 3 months ago, so I have been waiting awhile.

I have a dalite hipower 92", sitting about 12' back. Just about fully light-controlled room.

This is my first projector, and I am happy to have waited and checked out this forum. I will continue to be an AVS supporter... thank you AVS!

My setup has received raves from all who has seen it. My wife is more excited than I could have imagined.

I have a Sony 975 DVD player (currently using component cable - waiting for my HDMI cable).

I see some SD, but it disappears completely for me at about 8 feet. I have no need to defocus.

I do like running it at high lamp because I appreciate the added punch. Set at auto iris, the contrast is amazing. Incredible detail on bright and low light scenes. Fan noise is absolutely no issue at all.

I cannot think of one negative about this projector.

Started going through AVIA, but not finished yet. Had to watch some Star Wars!

So far, so good!

Mark

Ross: some things you're giving up with the HS51 vs. HS20 is with the HS51 you only have a single HDMI input whereas the HS20 has both HDMI and DVI inputs so if you plan on connecting an HDMI/DVI DVD player and HDMI/DVI HDTV Receiver then you need a switcher with the HS51. You also give up the remote controlled power focus and zoom that the HS20 has if you get an HS51. I'm looking forward to comparing the HS51 to the HS20 because the HS20 has some strengths of its own over the HS51.

By the way, Sony typically doesn't show their home theater projectors at CES so for those planning on seeing the HS51 in Sony's booth at CES you may be disappointed. They didn't have the 10HT, 12HT, HS10 nor HS20 at CES but did show the Qualia projector last year although in a harshly lit area of their booth.

So I have not been following this thread very closely, but has Sony fixed the
720p blanking problem yet?? They told me they would!!

Yeah, and the last four presidents said they would fix the deficit problem, too. Happy 2005!

A question to those who have compared HS51/50 to crt projector: how smooth is movement and pannings on Sony vs. crt? Do you see any judder on Sony?

I see judder sometimes on my CRT, but I always attributed that to the source and lack of dedicated video processing.

I just finished setting up a new HS51 in my home system. It replaces an HS20 that I had been using for over a year. I am using a Firehawk 54" by 96" screen
My concern about brightness in my not to perfect light controlled environment turned out to be inappropriate. It seems about the same brightness as the HS20. Perfectly viewable even during midday. This is with a 61 setting on the contrast adjustment
Noticeable improvements include a much more three dimension "cleaner" look. Presumably due to the new lens. Black levels are much better also. This was highly anticipated and did not disappoint. The colors look more saturated again presumably because of the improved black levels. The improvements are easily noticeable during the day.
My initial impression of the factory gray scale in the "low" setting was that it was pretty close. It a least had a "pleasing" look. On closer inspection with test patterns revealed that at below 50 ire or so the scale was pretty red. Red is fairly easily overlooked at lower light levels. I did recalibrate(lowering the contrast seemed to help) and found I could get a much nicer result by balancing the levels more evenly (around 6500) with a slight emphasis on red below 40 ire or so. At any rate it is looking very nice indeed.
The 720 masking problem still exists. I am outputting the HD Tivo at 1080i to match the DVD's 480 output. At 720p the picture shrinks or is masked. Whatever the problem. Sony really needs to look at this. Sorry is this is redundant to other posts. I have not read the entire thread. Good Luck

Originally posted by ddingle
I just finished setting up a new HS51 in my home system. It replaces an HS20 that I had been using for over a year. I am using a Firehawk 54" by 96" screen
My concern about brightness in my not to perfect light controlled environment turned out to be inappropriate. It seems about the same brightness as the HS20. Perfectly viewable even during midday. This is with a 61 setting on the contrast adjustment


I too have a Firehawk (100"). I take it from your initial impressions that you have found no hiccups with the HS51 compared to the HS20? I was happy to hear about your brightness comparison -- I have full light control and worry that the HS51 is darker than the HS20 -- I prefer my pictures brighter (one reason I am not a fan of ISF calibration).

Also: is the ceiling mount for the HS51 different from the HS20? I was able to replace my HS10 with the HS20 and kept the mount. Because the HS51 is in a new enclosure, I would imagine the mount would need to be changed. Is that true?

Ross

One of the earlier posts in this thread referred to a forthcoming 1080p Sony LCD projector that was called the "HS100" coming in late 2005 at around $4000. Was this speculation or has there been some announcement about this?

Originally posted by officiousintermeddler
I too have a Firehawk (100"). I take it from your initial impressions that you have found no hiccups with the HS51 compared to the HS20? I was happy to hear about your brightness comparison -- I have full light control and worry that the HS51 is darker than the HS20 -- I prefer my pictures brighter (one reason I am not a fan of ISF calibration).

Also: is the ceiling mount for the HS51 different from the HS20? I was able to replace my HS10 with the HS20 and kept the mount. Because the HS51 is in a new enclosure, I would imagine the mount would need to be changed. Is that true?

Ross

The mount for my HS20 fit the HS51 exactly. Easy smeasy!
On 100" screen you should be fine, mine as mentioned is 110". Looks great. Going to sit down to some football right now. Good luck

One of the earlier posts in this thread referred to a forthcoming 1080p Sony LCD projector that was called the "HS100" coming in late 2005 at around $4000. Was this speculation or has there been some announcement about this?

Considering that the new Fujitsu 1080p LCD projector retails for over $20K, I would say yes, this is total speculation.

Brian

One of the earlier posts in this thread referred to a forthcoming 1080p Sony LCD projector that was called the "HS100" coming in late 2005 at around $4000. Was this speculation or has there been some announcement about this?

I too believe it was speculation, however, if the Blu-Ray group want to establish it's format in the market place it would be prudent to develop and market some affordable playback/display hardware that could exploit the resolution, including projectors. I would speculate that Sony could make a lot more money selling Blu-Ray movies than the hardware. It's a catch22 situation, got the HW buy the movies, can't afford the HW won't buy the movies. Thus it's quite feasible a basic 1080 FP unit may be available between $5K & 6K. I hope anyway!

It would be nice to have a 1080p source (e.g., Blu-Ray) even with a 720p projector which would beat the heck out of a 480p DVD. Compare a 1080i movie from something like HBO-HD in 1080i to a 480p DVD of the same title. But ofcourse we'd love to have a 1080p capable projector too...

I have had my HS50 for a week or so now, havent really written that much about it yet since I really want to see all my reference movies on it again before I do.

I used to have a BenQ PE7800 (matterhorn DLP, with 2000:1 contrast and specified 800 lumens) and was pretty happy with the picture it gave, I did however have some RBE problems and my main reason for switching was that the HS50 was the first LCD that lives up to my criteria of a good projector. (VB being the most hated picture destroyer for me)

Will write more later but here are some initial thoughts:
- The HS50 is actually brighter than my PE7800 was, which suprised me a bit. I dont have a perfect enviroment, but white walls (which will be remade soon). However I can have total light control...Anyways even with lights on in the room next to the viewing room and with a light on in the room the picture is still pretty viewable on a 1.0 gain screen, so its not dim.

- The HS50 has deeper blacks (no kidding? ;) ) and you really can see everything there is to see in a dark scene with HS50. I really do love it with dark movies.

- The HS50 shows a great deal of detail, I find myself seing things in movies with this projector that I've never noticed before.

- The HS50 is almost totaly VB free, but only almost. I have seen it on two occations, but then I have really searched for it and it still is almost non existant.

- The HS50 has more screendoor. I sit at about 1.7x viewing distance and see SDE from time to time, a slight slight defocus seems to get rid of it though. Right now use a HTPC over the VGA input compared to what I will use later (a denon 2910 over HDMI), I did borow a HDMI DVD player for one day to test and the odd thing for me was that SDE almost dissapeard totaly with the DVD player compared to the HTPC. The picture also looked better with DVD and HDMI, but that could have much to do with the sources as well.

- The overal picture feels more like going to the cinema with the HS50 than the PE7800, somehow less digital. The pe7800 has a softness over it which I did like and you do feel the higher fill rate of a DLP, but with the HS50 slightly slighty defocused (thinking of that IMX lens..) it produces an image that is very close to DLP but feels not so artificial.

If I had not been RBE sensitive I would most probably not have switched though, its a differance but not a huge one.

Will post some more later on and take some screenshots, just for the sake of it hehe...

Havocsi: what's the size of your screen?

Havocsi,

Interesting results as I currently have the HS50 in my home after watching a Seleco HT200 for a number of years. The only thing that I don't like about the HS50 is the SDE. Some forum members have suggested that this is something that I would eventually grow to ignore.

I am considering changing the Sony HS50 for a Domino 20 hence the next question. Have you compared any HD programming on the HS50 versus your old DLP with the Matterhorn chip, which is incidentally the same chip in the Domino 20? I ask because that is the deciding factor for me. If there is not a significant difference then I think I will switch to the Domino 20 eventhough it is not a HD projector.

Mark

Wyns: I use a 90" diagonal screen, dalite white 1.0 gain screen.

mpauline: You can see the extra pixels, but its not a huge difference. I saw the HS50 compared to the Mitsubishi 900 (matterhorn) in a shootout a couple of month back and they had HD material on them. The HS50 is a little bit clearer in detail due to the extra pixels, and also because its so good in detail. HD also looks stunning on a matterhorn, but just a tad more blurred in details due to less pixels. Hope that helps.

Btw if you really have a huge problem with SDE you should check out that IMX lens that everyone is raving about, it looks very promissing.

I've had my HS50 for around 2 weeks now, and I've put around 70 hours on it. So far I'm fairly impressed but I do have a few of the problems other people are having:

1) Panel alignment is poor

2) The Blue panel looks like it is out of focus

3) I can’t get a sharp focus from left to right

4) I have the same colour uniformity issue as a previous poster (i.e. its bluer on the left).

Check the attahed photos out (the HS50 is focused using the top left in these screenshots)

FYI, blue generally always looks out of focus. If you have ever tried to focus a CRT or RPTV its a pain in the butt to get blue close to focused and generally you set blue slightly underfocused on purpose to increase brightness. Blue has the least effect on overall picture sharpness of the colors.

I cannot help you with the other issues.

Brian

Mark, have you looked at the Sony+IMX thread? Appears to have some dramatic results if you easily see and are annoyed by SDE.

BTW, I had the opportunity to see yet another HS51 setup today thanks to the gracious host Eric (awtryau89). Thanks Eric, it was great seeing your theater and really being impressed with that X-Men 2 DVD playing.

One my first two auditions of the HS51 I had been reserved on the color saturation of NTSC material. At Brian's meet (usabrian), the DVD demo of Spiderman seemed washed out. I now wonder specifically if it were that DVD, while Brian also noted after that meet it may have been his setup.

The first thing I requested of Eric today was to put something in that was 'colorful'. We had already seen some scenes from LOTR:ROTK:SE and also the third Terminator movie, which did a good job at showing contrast and some shadow detail. We opted for Finding Nemo for 'color' and there was a substantial amount of color, which is a good thing as it proved to me that its most likely material-dependent (color out of the projector) than anything else associated to projector design. I especially liked looking at irii in the fish, as the color was really electric in brilliance.

One thing that did catch my eye, though, was hinted upon by Eric in the movie X-Men 2. BTW, for those of you looking for a real treat demo this projector with the X-Men 2 DVD. They really seem to compliment one another. Anyway, the sharpness and colors in this DVD were really wonderful to watch, but they also brought something Eric and I noticed previously.

In some scenes where the camera pans from one location to another, or a couple of fast-paced pieced scenes with plenty of light reveal contrasting conditions in the contrast. This appears somewhat like a cross between washed out color and a fogging effect. As an example, try the scene in Chapter 4 where Jean is having trouble concentrating and the camera flashes back and forth from one group of people to another. Some groups have a lot of contrast and no apparent 'fogging' while other do seem to have a reduced contrast (fogging) while both scenes seem to be evenly illuminated.

BTW, around 7:25 there is a clip of a little girl with an ice cream cone. The flesh tones in her cheeks and the arm of the adult standing with her back to us are really nice. And this is 480i across HDMI!!!

Question: I thought HDMI (and DVI-D) could only transport 480P and higher resolutions. How is 480i out of the DVD player accomplishing this?

Anyway, from 8:02 to 8:13 the fast scenes of Jean trying to maintain concentration are where the fogged scenes show themselves, but not all of them are in this condition. I just reviewed this same scene on my 19" CRT monitor which was calibrated to 6500K in the past three months. And while I do expect it to be a condition of strong CRT contrast, I wonder if the fogging or loss of contrast is due to the iris taking a set position within that 11-second segment of scenes.

At this point I am pretty impressed with the HS51 to seriously consider not keeping my Internet order and instead get it locally. I will, of course, we the options of other alternatives. I feel at this point that the HS51 can probably exceed my 7" CRT, but what I feel and what I can accomplish during its Rambo-style calibration (Colorfacts, filtration, etc.) are two different things. Still, I left with a very positive feeling and suggest throwing both Terminator 3 and X-Men 2 in the player during auditions.

You ought to see X-Men 2 in HDTV (HBO-HD) if you like it on DVD. It looks incredible despite HBO pan/scanning it to 16:9. Very impressive demo material for blacks, shadow detail, clarity.

Well, while I wasn't so much issuing accolades for the movie as much as how well it appeared on the Sony, I would also imagine most any high-definition presentation to be an eye-opener.

Totally off topic but I think the best looking movie I've seen in HDTV is LOTR: ROTK from DirecTV HDTV PPV. It is jaw dropping regarding the clarity and detail of the image.

Originally posted by TheFerret


Question: I thought HDMI (and DVI-D) could only transport 480P and higher resolutions. How is 480i out of the DVD player accomplishing this?



Ferret,
You are correct on one part, DVI will not pass a 480i signal digitally but HDMI will. That is the beauty of the Pioneer and the Sony (975 I believe) HDMI DVD Players. At the current moment, they are the only 2 that will pass 480i over an HDMI output. The Sony HS51 will accept 480i over HDMI input. My old Epson would not accept 480i over its HDMI input. Anyway, this eliminates the need for an SDI mod if I decide to get a scaler down the road (A;though as you saw the Sony's scaler looks pretty darn good this way). Pure digital signal off the MPEG decoder on these units. I think this is why the Sony's scaler looks so good, I am not getting a deinterlacer involved nor is the Sony HS51 having to do any A/D conversion before the scaler. Its just a direct path to the scaler.

BTW, I am glad you came by and brought that X-Men DVD. I was really having second thoughts about this PJ but after yesterday I am feeling much better. Just to let everyone know, I have finally gone back to Sony's Middle color temp and it is the best looking color rendering to my eyes on their color temp selections. The low end IREs are still way too red but the higher end is much closer than the Low setting. After a full day of HD bowl games and a few demo movies with Ferret, I was really impressed with my PJ. Now if I can get colorfacts and get everything perfect, I will be happy. Brian are you ready yet?

As for the few things I pointed out to Ferret, I have come to a few conclusions. Sony is doing something in the unit with their "Dynamic Video Circuitry". I believe that this is boosting and cutting the video to the appropriate levels of color, gamma, etc for the iris to open and close. Well sometimes the unit trips itself up. You get the boost when you do not need it and sometimes you get a cut when not needed or it just does not react in time and you can notice it. Please be aware that I am being overly picky here. I pointed one such scene on X-men out to Ferret. This scene had some very dark portions to the screen but the middle was pure white snow. The scene quickly changed to all white snow and you could see what I intepretted as crushed white or a hot spot in the middle of the screen and then it returned to normal. Now this happened fairly quickly but you could also notice this a good bit on the HD football yesterday and the Rose Bowl was a great example. ABC would switch back and forth from Texas to Michigan quickly. The white Texas uniforms sometimes would just glow and Michigan would almost be black until the unit caught up. Ultimately, under most normal conditions, the unit is outstanding and 98% of people will never notice this.

Anyway, the more I learn here and become familiar with the unit, the more I like it. All PJs I have owned had flaws. Most of them I knew about going in so they were not as much of an issue for me because these were factored in on the purchase. The Sony has had a steeper learning curve for me. At this moment, it truly is the best PJ I have had in my room.

Considering that the new Fujitsu 1080p LCD projector retails for over $20K, I would say yes, this is total speculation.

Why are the 1080 LCD panels sooo much more expensive than the 1280*720? Or is it not the panel that's expensive?

I think this is why the Sony's scaler looks so good, I am not getting a deinterlacer involved nor is the Sony HS51 having to do any A/D conversion before the scaler. Its just a direct path to the scaler.

Are you saying that the HS50's scaling is better than the pioneers Faroujda scaling, when used in the way you describe?

I'm in two minds to pair the HS50 with a Pioneer 2910 or a 3910. There's quite a few complaints about the 2910 on these forums, but is the D/A conversion can be bypassed and handled by the HS50 then there shouldn't be any problems?

Newbie:D

One thing to keep in mind is that if I am not mistaken, a 480i input will be a bit brighter than a 480p or 720p input and this could be perceived as "better" at a glance or quick back and forth. In the end it may very well be better but I dont know...

Brian

Originally posted by LimeLizzards
Are you saying that the HS50's scaling is better than the pioneers Faroujda scaling, when used in the way you describe?

I'm in two minds to pair the HS50 with a Pioneer 2910 or a 3910. There's quite a few complaints about the 2910 on these forums, but is the D/A conversion can be bypassed and handled by the HS50 then there shouldn't be any problems?

Newbie:D

Well my Pioneer Elite 59Avi does not have Faroudja. It is using a pioneer solution. As for my preference, I would say the 480i is a better overall look. The colors are much better because of the SD/HD colorspace issue. The 1080i upconverted image has a bit smoother look to it. As I explained in my post, the Pioneer and Sony are the only 2 players currently that will pass a 480i signal thru HDMI. If you go with a Denon 2910 or 3910 you will have to pass 480p and this will get the Sony's deinterlacer involved. This is an unwanted step IMO.

As for Brian's comment about brightness, both pictures were calibrated exactly using DVE so the brightness was compensated for in the tweaking.

One thing everyone has to remember, DVDs are NTSC 480i natively. You cannot make DVDs HD. This is a completely different format. All upconverting players, HTPCs, etc are just doing what ultimately has to be done in the PJ to project the image properly. Whether one is better or not comes down to the ability of the scaler/deinterlacer in the source versus the scaler/deinterlacer in the PJ.

I'm very interested in this idea of feeding 480i over HDMI to the projector, thus giving a pure digital path and bypassing the deinterlacer and scaler on the player. Picture quality would then be dependent on the scaler/deinterlacer on the HS51.


What is the general consensus of the quality of the scaler/deinterlacer on the HS51?

Thanks,
John

Originally posted by usabrian
One thing to keep in mind is that if I am not mistaken, a 480i input will be a bit brighter than a 480p or 720p input and this could be perceived as "better" at a glance or quick back and forth. In the end it may very well be better but I dont know...

Brian

Just curious as to why a 480i picture would be brighter on a progressive display. I would assume that a deinterlaced progressive picture would be the same as a pure progressive signal in terms of brightnesssince the same number of pixels are illuminated (although the quality would be quite different for other reasons, such as the algorithm/deinterlacer involved, etc)

John

Originally posted by jwitcosk
I'm very interested in this idea of feeding 480i over HDMI to the projector, thus giving a pure digital path and bypassing the deinterlacer and scaler on the player. Picture quality would then be dependent on the scaler/deinterlacer on the HS51.


What is the general consensus of the quality of the scaler/deinterlacer on the HS51?

Thanks,
John

Okay here goes on this question. This is all a matter of opinion so take it for what its worth. I just got through watching The Chronicles of Riddick and I was looking very closely at the image quality. This is really the first full DVD I have watched in 480i as I just discovered the SD/HD colorspace problem a few days ago. Overall I would say the image is outstanding. I know the scaler is doing a great job because I really could not catch any artifacts or issues of any sort. I must say that the image is a bit grainier or less filmlike that my Pioneer. I do not necessariy find this as a bad thing though. The image is just as 3 dimensional but a bit sharper or grainier. As for overall artifacts, I would say the Sony is doing a better job than the Pioneer when watching DVE Montage. The Pioneer will comb a bit more than the Sony. So I am not switching back. Its real funny as I have a friend that has a Panny AE500 PJ. He has been in a search for a new DVD player and he has owned the Denon 2200, 3910, Zenith 318 and Panny s97 during this search. He call me today and told me he settled on a Sony 999ES which was a completely different direction than he was originally going. He had 3 friends over to view the picture on the Sony connected by component running 480i and the Panasonic (Faroudja 2310) connected by HDMI running 1080i upconverted. 2 of the three preferred the 480i picture of the Sony and the 3rd said it was a tie.

Part 1 of the Cine4Home HS50 review is now up at http://www.cine4home.de .
Paul

http://www.arcam.co.uk/downloads/DiVA%20DV79%20specifications.pdf

I believe looking at this that the Arcam AV79 also supports 576i/480i over the HDMI.

Paul, thanks for noting that. I had been checking almost every day. Reading it now (first of three parts has been published) ...

Originally posted by awtryau89
Okay here goes on this question. This is all a matter of opinion so take it for what its worth. I just got through watching The Chronicles of Riddick and I was looking very closely at the image quality. This is really the first full DVD I have watched in 480i as I just discovered the SD/HD colorspace problem a few days ago. Overall I would say the image is outstanding. I know the scaler is doing a great job because I really could not catch any artifacts or issues of any sort. I must say that the image is a bit grainier or less filmlike that my Pioneer. I do not necessariy find this as a bad thing though. The image is just as 3 dimensional but a bit sharper or grainier. As for overall artifacts, I would say the Sony is doing a better job than the Pioneer when watching DVE Montage. The Pioneer will comb a bit more than the Sony. So I am not switching back. Its real funny as I have a friend that has a Panny AE500 PJ. He has been in a search for a new DVD player and he has owned the Denon 2200, 3910, Zenith 318 and Panny s97 during this search. He call me today and told me he settled on a Sony 999ES which was a completely different direction than he was originally going. He had 3 friends over to view the picture on the Sony connected by component running 480i and the Panasonic (Faroudja 2310) connected by HDMI running 1080i upconverted. 2 of the three preferred the 480i picture of the Sony and the 3rd said it was a tie.

I also have a Sony 999ES dvdp which after numerus trials between 480p or 480i (same applies to pal 576i and 576p) found that interlaced signals are handled better than progressive ones (although i initialy thought that the deinterlacer of the 999es would be better than hs50 one).
Why 480i is better ? Weel, it is more 3D, it is crisper, and i found that is has more solid blacks (at least to my eyes the 480p look like it had a bit of brighter black level - but again i might be mistaken)
Nevertheless, i am keeping 999es feeding hs50 with interlaced signal.

Nick

Okay, I broke down and ordered an IMX lens. When it comes in, I'll post a review and hopefully some pics.

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone else noticed this. I am running the HS51 with Dish. My off air ABC Channel does not fill the sides completely, leaving about an inch on each side. Top to bottom the picture is filled. I have the box set to output 1080i due to the blanking issue. All other channels fill the screen just fine. However, when I was watching some old movie on HDMovies it did the same thing. Kind of something I noticed, no big deal, I will see if it does the same during monday night football. Let me know if anyone else has seen this.


Thanks!

I am hoping to get some opinions on a few questions I have:

I am finishing my basement and putting in a home theater to be used primarily for DVD, HDTV and gaming (PC and PS2). The room is totally light controlled and my screen wall is 20' x 8' and the room is long enough to place the projector at any distance from the screen I need without any zoom. I had been debating between the Panasonic AE700 and the Sony HS51 until I saw both of them together on the same screen last week at my local retailer, and in my opinion the Sony picture was far better, much better colors, blacks, no vb, etc., so I have decided to go with the Sony. So here are my questions:

- What is the largest screen size I should go with while preserving the best possible picture with the HS51?
- What screen material should I use with the HS51 (ie. while vs. gray, hi-power, gain, etc.)? I am thinking about a DIY screen from Da-Lite or something similar.
- What is the best vertical position for the screen and projector, assuming I will ceiling mount the projector?
- To get the best picture from the HS51, what amount (if any) zoom should be used? And based on that, how far away from the screen wall should the projector be placed?

Thanks,
Derek

Derek, I would like to know many of these things too, so I can not help except for one thing. I have just heard from David at Carada screens that the Brilliant White screen he manufactures looks great with the sony. That's the one I will buy as soon as the projector arrives. I will be getting the 100 inch diagonal.

Larry

Extreme, you may find this helpful/interesting?

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Sony-VPL-HS51-projection-calculator.htm

:)

Originally posted by extreme0016
I am hoping to get some opinions on a few questions I have:

- What is the largest screen size I should go with while preserving the best possible picture with the HS51?
- What screen material should I use with the HS51 (ie. while vs. gray, hi-power, gain, etc.)? I am thinking about a DIY screen from Da-Lite or something similar.
- What is the best vertical position for the screen and projector, assuming I will ceiling mount the projector?
- To get the best picture from the HS51, what amount (if any) zoom should be used? And based on that, how far away from the screen wall should the projector be placed?

Thanks,
Derek

Hi Derek,
My experience is that the HS51 can get quite bright on some scenes (such as the opening scenes of the original Star Wars where the storm troopers are boarding the rebel ship). Obviously, the IRIS for this sceen is in a "open" position, giving me plenty of lumens. Dark Scenes are appropriately dark showing great shadow detail (IRIS in a "closed" position). This is a good thing. However, I find that the "average" scene (such as the opeing scenes of Hobbiton in LOTR:FOTR) are on the dimmer side. For this reason, I prefer a brighter image.

Screen size/brightness is personal thing. I am keeping the screen size down to 92" and looking at screens with some gain to them (either a Carada Brilliant White gain 1.4 or a Dalite High power screen). I have samples of the Brilliant White and it does impart a nice gain, but I want to compare it to the high power material (it will be a fairly low ceiling mount at about 6' 6", so I'm unlikely to get the full gain from the high power) before I make a purchasing decision. Personally, I think a silverstar would be perfect, but I'm to worried about young ones damaging such an expensive screen.

With that said, I have heard some users are quite happy with a 110" image using a matte white (1.0 gain screen). Personally, I would find the image too dim for my tastes with this setup. This is especially true since the buld may dim a bit as it ages.

With regard to the zoom, I'm not sure it matters all that much from personal experience. That is unless you are looking for a constant height/anamorphic lens combo down the road. I'm sure others here on the forum will have a better idea with regard to zoom than me.

Hope this helps.

John

Hey, After reading a number of posts about using 420i over component instead of 420p over hdmi, I was wondering what sort of component cable you are using with the HS51? And what sort of price bracket should I aim for? Has anyone tested any variations of component cable with the hs51? I'd be very interested in your findings if you have.

Cheers
Jez.

My criteria is that its cheap and its made of metal. If they have those two qualities they work well...

Btw, its 480i/480p, not 420i/420p.

Brian

OK.

Some pics from my HS50 after smart III.
Note that it is the first time i try this and that my photo skills are average.
I used a Sony DSC 828 camera in Night scene mode on a tripod.
It was set up quite near the screen (approx. 3 ft) while my sitting position is further away(4,5 ft.)
Some blurry scenes are actually quite sharp, but when i hit pause it seems i can not get a really sharp image. Never mind the contrast and black level (as i see it in my monitor) is almost identical to what i actually see.

Nick

Another one.

and another.

Ooops !

and ...

Two to go ...

And the last one !!
(How can i post all of them in one post ??)

Nick

So what are the settings that you've settled on using? Mind listing everything out?

Nice.....nb2121.......could you advise of your screen size/type, room colours and input source(Component or DVI/HDMI).....THANKS!

Nick, comparing what got posted to your eye would you say that the exposure is about correct? Also, is your computer monitor calibrated, or even set to 6500K? Accurate conveynig screen captures is probably like trying find a cure for the common cold. Without the two displays and viewing applications being dang near identical, there is more of a chance to the viewer on our end to see something different than what you have seen on your screen.

I saw this done at a Fixed Pixel Calibration Seminar a few years back and am wondering how the Sony would fare . After setting up a particular PJ (model escapes me) one of the participants remarked that he had done a good job as the black level looked quite good during movie scenes . The Instructor then played a 0IRE full test screen and asked if this was still a good black rendition . The answer was "sure" . The Instructor then held a 12" x 12" piece of cardstock between the projector and the screen thus casting a "shadow" onto the dark image . He then remarked that this was indeed the "black" that we would all like to see . On some PJ's this difference was considerable .

For those with measuring devices or light meters , would it not be possible to measure a 0IRE full field then shield the meter with a 12" x 12" object and measure the "shadow" ? The ratio could be a kind of reference tool for those tweaking their systems . i.e. a ratio of 10:1 might indicate a well tweaked system with outstanding black levels while one of 300:1 or more could stand some improvement .

Just a suggestion .:rolleyes:

Scott...........................

I live in New York City and have been unable to find any dealer anywhere who will show you what kind of image a digital PJ projects on a screen in a dark room--ANY PJ--much less the HS51 on a 106" high power screen or a side-by-side comparison. Does anyone know where in my area I can go to actually see this projector in action? The Sony store on Madison Ave. is no help at all nor is B&H. I'd also like to talk to someone as knowledgable as many of the people in this forum in person. Is that too much to ask when you're spending upwards of $3,500??

I've never seen anything projected by a PJ less than five years old and don't watch TV or DVDs ever. I just go to the movies. Based solely on my reading I'm leaning toward the HS51 with a 52"x 92" Dalite Model B high power screen in a relatively dark room with white walls from a distance of 10 to 15'. I'm wondering whether I shouldn't just get a regular DVD player to tide me over while things sort themselves out with all these HDMI upscaling "blanking" problems, or does that defeat the whole purpose of getting such a high end PJ? Needless to say I'm a video virgin. Thanks for your help.

Phil:

It will be very difficult to find any salesman with even half the knowledge or experience of some of the forum experts.

From your post, I am guessing that you are a movie fan planning to watch DVDs at home. If that is the case, I think you will be very happy with any one of the well regarded projectors. They will provide a better picture than most movie theaters.

I haven't seen the HS51, so I won't comment on it directly. But it seems that you have done your research on the forum, and have come up with a good solution.

Ten feet might be a bit close for that size screen, but at fifteen feet the picture should look great. The highpower is a great screen. It will add some brightness, and is great at rejecting off axis light.

If you can't find a demo, and you have a wall big enough, or can find a 4X8 sheet of drywall, order the Sony from that famous online dealer that lets you return things, and try it out. If you don't like it, send it back, but if you are a movie fan, you will probably love it. When you get your screen it will look even better.

Regarding a DVD player: You won't have to worry about blanking problems, if you use 1080i out. But you can't go wrong with your idea. Check out the latest December "Secrets" report for some very inexpensive players that look great over component.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Pip

Ok, for the first time I hooked up a hdmi connection tonight from my htpc. The first thing I notice other than the cropping is that the text on the desktop is nowhere near as sharp as the vga connection. Everything is fatter and I also noticed that everything is darker, requiring me to jack up brightness settings to get to an equivalent point. What gives, I was expecting this to be sharper! Being a CRT guy I dont know much about hdmi, dvi, etc. Next thing, I figure out that the sony is seeing a 50 hz refresh rate despite the fact that I have 60 selected and highlighted in the nvidia control panel. No matter what I select it says its 50hz. What am I doing wrong here?

Brian

Get powerstrip and try using an interlaced signal. From personal experience it seems that progressive signals (480p/720p)are darker than interlaced ones (480i/1080i)

Originally posted by Tekara
So what are the settings that you've settled on using? Mind listing everything out?

I list them in the tweaks thread after my SMARTIII calibration.
It is in Low lamp mode, custom temp from SmartIII, sharp at 40, brightness at 62 (Avia calibrated), and contrast at 88 (smart recomended 95 which is way up for me).
It is fed throught Canare components from a Sony dvp 999ES player on interlaced signal leaving the pj to do the scaling/deinterlacing.
The screen is a European Projecta (DaLite equivalent) High Contrast (light grey) of 1.0 gain.

Nick

Originally posted by TheFerret
Nick, comparing what got posted to your eye would you say that the exposure is about correct? Also, is your computer monitor calibrated, or even set to 6500K? Accurate conveynig screen captures is probably like trying find a cure for the common cold. Without the two displays and viewing applications being dang near identical, there is more of a chance to the viewer on our end to see something different than what you have seen on your screen.

TheFerret,

Yes i am awear of things not being exactly the same in digital photos as they are in real life. To my eye these pics (and this is the main reason i post them) are very close (if not exactly the same in some of them) to what i was seeing when pressing the camera buton.
My monitor is at 6500K preset (a Sony 19'' LCD one).
The only thing you can not see in these pics is the left and right sides of the screen which are not dark but light blue. What happens here is that due to the very low light output of HS50 (iris at auto) and the totaly controled room (although not very dark walls) there was very litle light for the camera to capture around the screen - which is also a light grey high contrast one with 1.0 gain and thus low reflections.

Nick

Originally posted by Tekara
Get powerstrip and try using an interlaced signal. From personal experience it seems that progressive signals (480p/720p)are darker than interlaced ones (480i/1080i)

Tekara,

I do not totaly agree with you here.
I found that the interlaced signal from my sony 999es dvp is marginaly darker than the progressive one from the same player.

Nick

Originally posted by Tekara
Get powerstrip and try using an interlaced signal. From personal experience it seems that progressive signals (480p/720p)are darker than interlaced ones (480i/1080i) Suggesting that someone use an interlaced resolution for a desktop environment is just fundamentally wrong. Sony needs to bloody fix this problem. It is quite evident they cannot take a 1280x720 PC-level video signal and interpret it correctly, AND (more importantly) display it correctly.

Brian, I would suggest that you use PowerStrip and play (tune) the 1280x720P timings and see what happens. I would also play with the geometry (actual H/V dimensions) as well. For those of us looking for an all digital path, Sony seems to have allowed a known issue present in previous models to be carried over to the current model.

BTW, we know that feeding anything but a progressive 1280x720 is engaging the Pixelworks chip, but the two-folded question is a) if you feed 1280x720P does it still engage the Pixelwork chip, and b) if its not engaging the Pixelworks chip what is handling the video transport?

Nick, that reply to you was more for the benefit of the ignorant at hand. You and I may be aware of the condition, but a lot of people may not.

Originally posted by TheFerret
...........
Nick, that reply to you was more for the benefit of the ignorant at hand. You and I may be aware of the condition, but a lot of people may not.

Got it !

Nick

Brian, I would suggest that you use PowerStrip and play (tune) the 1280x720P timings and see what happens. I would also play with the geometry (actual H/V dimensions) as well.

I was trying to use powerstrip. It was as if the projector, powerstrip and nvidia were all fighting over the desktop. No matter what I would do the projector would see 50hz through the dvi/hdmi input. I could change resolution and refresh on the fly but it would revert back to 50hz as soon as I clicked ok. Nvidia control panel would have 60hz checked but powerstrip would report 50hz and the projector would report 50hz. And the picture with HDMI looked as if it was engaging additional conversions. VGA is so pixel perfect clear and this was not.

I have to wonder if I am missing something basic about the DVI out from the Geforce 6800.

Brian

For those who pm'd me for posting my SmartIII custom settings (more details on the tweaks thread) here are they:

(Note: Contrast=88, Brightness=62, Iris=Auto).

Bias Gains
111 128 Red
128 60 Green
126 62 Blue

Note that NOT all pjs are the same so mind with the data above.

Nick

The highpower is a great screen. It will add some brightness, and is great at rejecting off axis light.

Thanks. Will the high power fabric do its job if I am using the lens shift feature and not projecting straight down the middle? phil

Nick,

A couple of questions...what connection are you using to the projector? I put in your settings and am pleased with the picture when feeding it from my HTPC via HDMI, but it does not look as good on a picture from my DVD player via component. I am going to have to set up different user settings for each source.

Also, what do you have the Color and Hue settings at?

Thanks,
Brian

Originally posted by Bchav
Nick,

A couple of questions...what connection are you using to the projector? I put in your settings and am pleased with the picture when feeding it from my HTPC via HDMI, but it does not look as good on a picture from my DVD player via component. I am going to have to set up different user settings for each source.

Also, what do you have the Color and Hue settings at?

Thanks,
Brian

Brian,

I am feeding through components with interlaced signal from a sony dvp 999es player.
Color and Hue are at factory levels (50).

My Low factory color temp has gains of 128,39,30 (RGB) which i used as my initial point for calibration. You might find it usufull if you calculate the % difference from my Low to my final Smart custom calibration and apply this % to your initial Low temp.

Nick

originally posted by pkaynyc
Will the high power fabric do its job if I am using the lens shift feature and not projecting straight down the middle?

The high power does two jobs: adding gain, and rejecting off axis light. The smaller the angle of the image from the projector reflected to your eyes, the better the fabric will do both of them. But even with a ceiling mount and the projector at the top of the screen, the high power will still help - especially with rejecting off axis light.

If you do ceiling mount, you will get more screen gain if you mount the PJ as low, and as far back as possible.

If you are talking about a large lateral (sideways) lens shift, that may present more of a problem. For example: if you were to have the projector set next to a white side wall, the screen would return the high gain to that wall, leaving any seating along the opposite wall in the dark. Seating along the projector side wall would also have the picture washed out by the reflected light from that wall. A small lateral lens shift, on the other hand, with the projector anywhere near the lateral center of the screen, will have virtually no negative effect on the image.

I think that as long as you don't set the projector right next to a wall, the screen will help.

Someone has an excellent post in the screens forum demonstrating the off axis performance of the high power.

Pip

Originally posted by jwitcosk
I'm very interested in this idea of feeding 480i over HDMI to the projector, thus giving a pure digital path and bypassing the deinterlacer and scaler on the player. Picture quality would then be dependent on the scaler/deinterlacer on the HS51.


What is the general consensus of the quality of the scaler/deinterlacer on the HS51?

Thanks,
John

All I can say is that I added a DVDO Iscan HD+ to my HS51 and saw a definite improvement.

Can you describe what the improvement(s) is (are)?

Originally posted by TheFerret
Can you describe what the improvement(s) is (are)?

Yes, I'll try, but I am not well versed in "video speak", so please bear with my subjective language.

The scaler seemed to tone down the "digital appearance" of the HS51 images and also smooth out fast motion scenes such as fast pans,etc. I was using the snow scenes at the begining of "Return of the Jedi" for comparisons. My last PJ was a Yamaha LPX 500 and it had a pretty smooth (cinema like) appearance.

I did not do any A/B testing with the scaler, so I cant really be objective about it, however, I'll tell you that before I hooked up the ISCAN I was thinking it wanst going to do much and that I could take it back and save the $1500, but I realized that I really liked the picture better with it.

Sorry I cant be more analytic about this. I am a scientific researcher by profession and I know how worthless subjective descriptions can be.

Originally posted by nb2121
Tekara,

I do not totaly agree with you here.
I found that the interlaced signal from my sony 999es dvp is marginaly darker than the progressive one from the same player.

Nick

Nick, The difference in brightness seems to only be through the HDMI connection. If your connected through the component cables I do not believe that you will see the issue that I have noted.

Originally posted by TheFerret
Suggesting that someone use an interlaced resolution for a desktop environment is just fundamentally wrong.

haha, I do agree that there seems to be something wrong with that on a fundamental level. But right now we are interested in exploring this phenomenon a bit more.

One other issue that I have noticed when playing a DVD on my HTPC and feeding the projector through HDMI is that I cannot utilize the widescreen modes on the Sony remote (i.e. cannot zoom, widezoom, full, etc.). I assume this is because my HTPC is doing the processing and the projector is just displaying in whatever format it is being fed. In some cases when viewing a 2.35 dvd I would like to use zoom but am unable to unless I don't use my HTPC (and use my stand alone dvd player instead which does not have as nice of a picture). I guess I could have my PC do the 'zooming'...

Bchav - I never noticed that until you mentioned it but you are correct, the projector displays "not applicable" when I try and use the zoom with the DVD player which is connected via HDMI.

Originally posted by Bchav
One other issue that I have noticed when playing a DVD on my HTPC and feeding the projector through HDMI is that I cannot utilize the widescreen modes on the Sony remote (i.e. cannot zoom, widezoom, full, etc.). I assume this is because my HTPC is doing the processing and the projector is just displaying in whatever format it is being fed. In some cases when viewing a 2.35 dvd I would like to use zoom but am unable to unless I don't use my HTPC (and use my stand alone dvd player instead which does not have as nice of a picture). I guess I could have my PC do the 'zooming'...
At this point it is pretty common for projectors to not do any zooming with HD input signals. I consider it a feature like lens-shift. Something that I would pay some extra for. I hope that supporting vertical zooming to accomodate an anamorphic lens will become a more common feature in the future. Zooming with the PC is usually pretty easy (at least with ZoomPlayer or TheaterTek).

--Darin

Ok, is it possible and perhaps likely that the hdmi cropping issue is preventing the projector from getting pixel perfect via the hdmi input.? As I previously noted text is noticeably fatter, darker and blurrier than my pixel perfect vga connection.

1080i is better but of course I need binoculars to read the desktop and I still note some blanking via hdmi. Have others who noted this issue only been feeding dvd players and I am the only one with a HTPC who is noting all this?

Brian

Originally posted by usabrian
And the picture with HDMI looked as if it was engaging additional conversions. VGA is so pixel perfect clear and this was not.

Then, if I may ask, why bother with DVI at all, if VGA is giving you a pixel perfect image? I realize a digital connection is usually better than an analog one but in this case it doesn't seem so.

With all the usual caveats about screenshots and their worth, for a bit of fun I've uploaded a load of images of my HS50 in action. They are in the screenshot section of my website www.f-directions.co.uk

The feed is an HTPC, fed by VGA, software is Theatertek 2.05 with FFDShow.

There are 2 pages worth, some shots are repeated on the 2nd page. Hope you like them :)

Originally posted by SonyAteMyBaby
Then, if I may ask, why bother with DVI at all, if VGA is giving you a pixel perfect image? I realize a digital connection is usually better than an analog one but in this case it doesn't seem so.

Many devices capable of producing 720p do not have a VGA port: Upconverting DVD players, some set top boxes, etc.

reaper

cinema fan,

Thanks for the great shots! Have you mentioned anywhere what screen size and gain as well as the settings you have the sony set on? If not, would you please?

Thanks!

Larry

Originally posted by reaper
Many devices capable of producing 720p do not have a VGA port: Upconverting DVD players, some set top boxes, etc.


But he was talking about a HTPC. I agree that VGA isn't an option for anything else.

There is at least one 'upconverting' DVD player that does have VGA, reap. I do agree, though. Digital video path for a digital display is suppose to be one of the cornerstones of the 'digital frontier' in video. Not being able to pixel-perfect deliver video across a digital path speaks loudy to me as an ability to do what so many other companys can do.

Originally posted by SonyAteMyBaby:
Then, if I may ask, why bother with DVI at all, if VGA is giving you a pixel perfect image? I realize a digital connection is usually better than an analog one but in this case it doesn't seem so.

Well you are absolutely correct, I will not. But theortetically the DVI pixel perfect would have been better and of course now I will need a switcher for I have either two vga or two component connections. And should I not want this issue resolved? That is the whole point of bringing it out in the open!

Brian

The 720 YPbPr/HDMI issue is a bit of a mystery.

Is it the transcoder? Well, transcoding of 1080i/YPbPr or 1080i/HDMI does not seem to be a problem even though they must be transcoded to 720P/RGB to feed to the panels. Yet, no problem exhibited here.

Is it the deinterlacer? Well, 1080i/RGB needs to be deinterlaced before going to the panels. But, like 1080i/YPbPr and 1080i/HDMI they exhibit no problem either.

Is it the scaler? Well, 1080i/RGB does need scaling after it is deinterlaced (to 540P, no less), and yet it exhibits no problem.

So, in each of these cases it would seem to be that the transcoder, deinterlacer, and scaler are all ruled out. My only caveat to this conclusion is that maybe a second trasncoder, or a second deinterlacer, or a second scaler is present such that it would explain a second path for one of the above to be invalid.

I somehow doubt this is going to be found out based simply on the fact this issue was present on previous generation Sony projectors. My original suspicion that it was a bandwidth-limitation issue gets invalidated (1080i has no problem, but its deinterlaced to 540P, which consumes less bandwidth than 720P) because the problem doesn't appear on 720P/RGB.

Then again, maybe it is a bandwidth issue in the Pixelworks chip, which is not engaged when feeding RGB signals. This would seem to explain the absence of the problem when feeding 720P/RGB. So, if the pixelworks chip cannot handle, with proficiency, the deinterlacing and or scaling of a native 720P/non-RGB input signal, then that dang chip needs to go.

My question is what other current projectors are using this chip?

Someone on the AE700 thread is reporting a firmware fix for the white flash issue. Just thought I'd let any fence sitters know. I still find myself leaning towards the HS51, but the 700 is a lot more desirable if that issue is fixed.

I agree on the HTPC thing. Seems like VGA is the best option. Didn't the OTA HDTV tuner, DTC100, have a VGA output as well? How much do VGA switch boxes cost? Maybe everything should come in via VGA :).

reaper

Keep in mind that white-flashes were not the only problem that discouraged some. For instance, I didn't like Panasonic's SmoothScreen. It seemed to softened the image too much. I do not know how they are specifically implementing that double-refraction/birefringent/optical bifurcation solution (which they call SmoothScreen), but its not efficient.

I wonder if they employ SmoothScreen at the beginning of the lens assy or before the dichrois combiner block. In either event, its also producing less contrast for me. 2050:1 in an LCD is nice, but 3800:1 is much better to me.

Well, someone just brought to my attention that even 1920x540P has slightly more bandwidth than 1280x720P (12.5% higher), so its not a bandwidth limitation either. Doh!

Originally posted by reaper
Someone on the AE700 thread is reporting a firmware fix for the white flash issue. Just thought I'd let any fence sitters know. I still find myself leaning towards the HS51, but the 700 is a lot more desirable if that issue is fixed.

I agree on the HTPC thing. Seems like VGA is the best option. Didn't the OTA HDTV tuner, DTC100, have a VGA output as well? How much do VGA switch boxes cost? Maybe everything should come in via VGA :).

reaper

Reaper,
Fixes or not, I would shy away from the 700 because of VB. I have had both in my room, although not at the same time, and it is really noticeable. I actually did have the 700 and the Epson 500 in my room at the same time and the 500 was hands down a better PJ. Then I had the Epson and Sony in my room at the same time and it was very close with the nod on colors going to the Epson and contrast going to the Sony. I decided to keep the Sony because colors can be tweaked but the difference in contrast cannot. Anyway, the Epson annihilated the 700 in the area of VB (yes, I did the flicker tweak) and the Sony even beat the Epson in this area so I would say it is no contest. Then again, if VB is not an issue, go for it.

Of course, the blanking issue is not a real concern to me but I am not using a HTPC at all. I watch a majority of my HD in 720p and the blanking has not bothered me much at all. I am usually very anal about things of this sort but for some reason it does not bother me.

Ferret,
As for the Pixelworks chip, I can rule that one out. The Epson 500 I just sold had the Pixelworks chip in it and it did not have this problem via HDMI.

You don't like smoothscreen but you do think that an IMX lens may be worthwhile for the HS51? I thought that the effect is largely the same. Apparently, you believe that the IMX lens maintains detail more? Correct?

There are definitely still advantages to the HS51. I didn't mean to indicate that the AE700 (with the white flash fix) is a lot more desirable than the HS51. I meant to say that the AE700 with the white flash fix is a lot more desirable than the AE700 without the white flash fix. An obvious statement, but how that increase in desirability places it against the HS51 is an interesting question once again.

reaper

Agreed, contrast and VB are what keeps my eye firmly on the HS51.

Basically, I am paying $650 more for these improvements. The AE700 was completely a non-option for me if the white flash issue is still there. But with that fixed, it at least enters the realm of possibility. Buy an AE700 now and have money left over or save for a few more months (maybe 6-7 even) and buy an HS51.

Ah, but the room isn't even finished... so I don't have to confront this question head on just yet. :)

reaper

I second awtryau89's comments on VB on the HS51. I have seen VB on every other LCD projector (Pansonic, Sanyo, even the Epson 500). I see none at all on the HS51.

I didn't think VB bothered me much until I saw the HS51. I tolerated it quite fine, especially after the projectors had been tweeked to reduce it. But once you've seen how good a VB free display is, its tough to go back (at least for me).

John

Originally posted by usabrian
Ok, is it possible and perhaps likely that the hdmi cropping issue is preventing the projector from getting pixel perfect via the hdmi input.? As I previously noted text is noticeably fatter, darker and blurrier than my pixel perfect vga connection.

1080i is better but of course I need binoculars to read the desktop and I still note some blanking via hdmi. Have others who noted this issue only been feeding dvd players and I am the only one with a HTPC who is noting all this?

Brian

As I am just in the process of getting everything connected, I don't have an HTPC to hook up to the HS51 yet. That means all I have are theories and things for you to try.

I don't recall your setup, but is it possible to try a different DVI -> HDMI cable combination? Perhaps shorter runs or other connectors/adaptors may yield different results.

Do you have access to another DVI video card you could try? I know that VGA quality can vary greatly between video cards, but I don't have much experience with DVI yet. I know that there are variances in consumer electronics equipment with regard to the DVI transmitters and how well they work with certain displays.

If you can compare the text output from your HTPC's desktop to similarly sized text on a test DVD, do you notice a blurring or enlargement on the text as displayed by the projector as opposed to viewing it on a computer monitor? Unfortunately, DVD is going to be upsampled, so I don't know that that is going to help any.

This may be a stupid question, but I'll ask anyway. Have you tried to contact Sony about what you are noticing? There's a small chance that they may be able to supply you with some settings or tips to get the most out of a PC -> projector connection.

One last thing to check, and then I'm tapped for ideas. If you are using WindowsXP, have you tried to adjust the visual appearance settings at all?

Desktop > Properties > Appearance > Effects

Try varying the settings under "Use the following method to smooth edges of screen fonts:" and see if anything changes.

Reap, its all on how the implementation takes place. Panasonic chose a fixed double-refractive condition whereas the IMX lens let's 'you' select the amount of double-refraction you want. Also, I have not yet advocated the IMX, but stated my strong

A guy in the cincy area is talking about hosting an AE700 and HS51 shootout.

reap

I got my HS51 (I think) a few minutes ago.

I am confused on the HS51/HS50 thing though. The box is marked for both models (which caused my confusion). I thought the HS51 had a network connection and the image director software and the HS50 had no network connection or software. Mine came with the software but I dont see a network connection. Mine does have a MINI-USB port though.

Could it be the HS51 has the software and a USB port where the HS50 has no software or USB port?

Does anyone's HS51 have a RJ45 for a network connection (ethernet)?

The bottom of the unit does say HS51 so I am convinced :)
But I am confused on this talk of a network connection. hmm...
Bryan.

On the HS51 the ethernet connection is at the front (see page 61 of the manual). No USB port, ethernet port nor software on the HS50.
Paul

Originally posted by reaper
A guy in the cincy area is talking about hosting an AE700 and HS51 shootout.

reap
Cool. Hopefully someone will spring for a Colorfacts and put them in their best possible condition for an even comparison. Maybe they could split the screen and let both project half a picture for a nice screen capture.

Originally posted by bradbissell
The wife-to-be nixed the purchase of the HS51 and rather than cause a serious rift I'm sending it back.

Ouch! Were you going for the better to ask for forgiveness than for permission route and it backfired?

Originally posted by Bryan Jozwiak
I got my HS51 (I think) a few minutes ago.

I am confused on the HS51/HS50 thing though. The box is marked for both models (which caused my confusion). I thought the HS51 had a network connection and the image director software and the HS50 had no network connection or software. Mine came with the software but I dont see a network connection. Mine does have a MINI-USB port though.

Could it be the HS51 has the software and a USB port where the HS50 has no software or USB port?

Does anyone's HS51 have a RJ45 for a network connection (ethernet)?

Bryan.

I have not seen an ethernet port on my HS-51 either.

I tried to run the Image Director software, but I have not hooked up a USB cord from my PC to my projector, so it won't work. It seemed to techy to me to tinker with the gamma curves. I thought I would be more likely to mess something up than improve the picture. If someone has played with the software, can you tell me how much improvement (%) did you get using the software?

I did run DVE last night and was pleasantly surprised that most of the settings (brightness, contrast, color, hue and sharpness) are between 50 and 60). Which were the default settings on pj. I had changed the color from cool to mid.

However, I am slightly disappointed when I looked at the DVE overscan chapter that I noticed I'm missing a 2-3 percent on the top of the image. I'm using a progressive scan DVD player with component cables. I have read many posts regarding overscan, but I thought most of those were happening with HDMI cables, not component.

I really enjoy the projector, but the more I read of this thread the more I focus on the shortcomings (looking for screen door) instead of enjoying movies blown up to 106 inches with an incredible picture. No one else in my household notice anything wrong, unless I tell them what to look for. I think I will stop sharing these findings with anyone else so they can be blissfully ignorant. Part of me wants to be ignorant and just enjoy the PJ as well, but something keeps me reading the posts.

Lonnie

I just read Paul's post regarding looking for an ethernet connection on the front. I will check it out tonight. It seems weird to me to stick all the connections in the back except for an ethernet connection. It won't look nice having a cord running to the front.

Lonnie

Originally posted by lonniehansenjr
Part of me wants to be ignorant and just enjoy the PJ as well, but something keeps me reading the posts.
Lonnie

Cybercrack. First posts free.

Thanks Paul,

I was just paging thru the manual and noticed the Ethernet location on the front. I checked the projector and there it was. The cover is well designed so you dont see it easily although it was hard to get the cover off of it.

I dont understand why it is on the front either. Seems like it should be on the back with all the other connections. Oh well.

What kind of benefits does one get from this ethernet port andyway?

Originally posted by larsil
cinema fan,

Thanks for the great shots! Have you mentioned anywhere what screen size and gain as well as the settings you have the sony set on? If not, would you please?

Thanks!

Larry

Hi Larsil

The screen size is exactly 84 inches in width, the projector lens is approximately 12ft from the screen. The screen material is Ellie 1.2 gain (www.ellie.co.uk) stretched over a home made frame.

I use Theatertek 2.05, the only adjustment is to gamma, set at 60. The ATI 9800 I have seems to need additional gamma on every projector I have tried/owned

Sony settings are:
C = 90
B = 45
Gamma = off
Colour = High
Auto Iris
Low Lamp

Think that covers it all. :)

my HS51 has an ethernet port, in front to the right of the lens behind a plug.

With USB the computer you hook up will need drivers for the projector. With ethernet the computer just needs sends instructions to an IP address on the network. Also, I suppose I should mention that it's typically easier to to get and work with long ethernet cables (>50ft) so moving the computer around isn't as needed for an ethernet connection.

Thanks Cinema Fan. My hs51 will arrive next week and I am buying the Brilliant White Carada screen. By the way, David at Carada has been very helpful and generous in giving me feedback on setting up my new theater room. He is also using the hs51 on the Brillianrt White screen and says the results are excellent. I think the 100 inch diagonal will best suit my room but maybe the 106 inch, still deciding on that. I bought the new sony dvd player with hdmi for the projector.

Larry

As others have stated, the ethernet port is on the front behind a little round plug very near the lens, it was kind of hard to unplug it the first time, but its fine after u know how to get it open :)

Although I havent gotten it to pick up a dhcp address :P I think I have to put it on Power Saving Standard then turn it off or something. Too busy using the projector to actually fiddle with it that much :)

And I'll run the edid.exe (with a nvidia 6800 ultra) as I promised ages ago, once I get my hdmi cable and dvi adapter. I'm just running it with vga out.

Now if I could only get in contact with Jason Turk for the IMX return. The lack of a call/e-mail is starting to bug me a bit.

I guess you are forgetting about CES!

Brian

I've got the HS51 connected to my HTPC through the HDMI port using an Ultralink HDMI cable with DVI to HDMI adapter at the video card. The card is an XfX nVidia 6800 128MB standard with dual DVI ouputs. I've tried both outputs and they work fine. I run it passing through the MyHD card and it works fine other than the blanking issue that has been discussed here. One solution for me is to run everything through the HDMI input at 1080i. DVDs look pretty good, but I need to compare with TheaterTek to be sure I'm happy with the results.

I'm not sure if the dual DVI card is different than a single output card, but it works fine for me.

Chuck

Originally posted by Bryan Jozwiak
What kind of benefits does one get from this ethernet port anyway?
Supposedly if you can get your HS51 to connect to your network, you can enter the PJs IP address in a web browser (http://ip_address/) and access controls similar to what the remote does from a web page menus. It can also be used to control the PJ using control codes.

However, I have never been able to get any of this to work on my HS51. As I reported way back in this thread, my router status never indicated that the PJ had connected to it. The PJ status shows some fixed IP address that is not in the range my router hands out, whether or not it is connected to anything. I also tried to connect directly to my PC with a cross over cable and used packet sniffing software to see what was coming from the PJ. I never saw anything coming from the PJs MAC address, so I assume my Ethernet port is DOA. The green light comes on when I plug it in and the orange light flashes briefly, but otherwise I have seen no indication that it works.

I submitted an email to Sony support about this, but the only solution they offered was to send it in for service. Since this feature is not that important to me and the PJ is fine otherwise, I'm not going to risk sending it in only to have it come back with a more serious problem.

I've got the HS51 connected to my HTPC through the HDMI port using an Ultralink HDMI cable with DVI to HDMI adapter at the video card. The card is an XfX nVidia 6800 128MB standard with dual DVI ouputs. I've tried both outputs and they work fine. I run it passing through the MyHD card and it works fine other than the blanking issue

No offense but of course it works fine, the issue is not whether it works the issue is whether you can get pixel perfect via the DVI because there is really no point in running DVI when you can run VGA pixel perfect .

Brian

Just an interesting thing I found out with my setup when using the VGA port to get pixel perfect. I started out by using the VGA port on my Radeon 9800 pro card with a good VGA-VGA cable to the HS50 and thought it produced a good picture, but a bit of screendoor.

I then switched to use the DVI out port on the Radeon card using a DVI-VGA adapter and then through the VGA cable to the HS50. I did not think it would make any difference but I tried it anyways and the picture actually did improve quite a bit for me. It became more stable, had less ringing and the SDE got less noticable....It probably have to do with something in the Radeon card, that it produces a clearer and stronger signal through the DVI port than the VGA one. Just thought I should point it out if anyone else is using an ATI Radeon card and VGA-VGA.

Brian,

I agree with your statement. I was reacting to threads in the HTPC forum suggesting that there have been problems with some displays not allowing native resolution using nVidia drivers due to the EDID assigned to the display. I was only reporting that this is not the case for the HS51. I assumed that was common knowledge because a lot of the current HS51 owners use HTPCs, but thought I would confirm my observation.

Now on to finding 1:1 pixel mapping. I'm not there yet, but haven't put a lot of effort into it so far.

Chuck

I just hooked up the HS51 I am returning to my Zenith 318 dvd player via DVI>HDMI and it completely hung on me. Anyone else have issues with HDCP with the HS51?

Hi, anyone using the Panasonic DVDS97S with their HS51? I believe it has the faroujda chip that enhances MB somewhat but was wondering if this did 480i over the HDMI? And what the quality is like in general, appears to be a bit of a bargain player? Does it look it?:)

I'm using panny's new s97. Uhm, it does not do 480i over hdmi, only 480p/720p/1080i. You can see a lot more informaiton about this DVD player in the DVD player forum, there's a large throud dedicated to this player over there.

The general consesus is that this player is indeed a bargain worth taking advatage of, it is definatiely one of the players out on the market right now. I would definately reccomend this player to anyone in the market for a player.

Re "jschefdog" post above --

I have been running my HS51 for about 2 weeks. I had planned to hook-up the net port also to play with it, but noted in the manual that the IP address is fixed.

Although I have not tested it, but devices attached to the non-WAN connection on the home routers such as L-Sys boxes use Class C sub-net assignments dynamically controlled by the Link-Sys router section. I think the Link-Sys hardware is fixed at 192.168.1.X for the assignments within it's subnet and will not recognize the projector, i.e., it would work if the projector could be dynamically assigned and a laptop or desktop PC on the router could then get to it.

It should work if you connect to it directly and config in the ToolBox for a peer-to-peer net (with only the PC and the projector on the wire).

Originally posted by BigScreen:
As I am just in the process of getting everything connected, I don't have an HTPC to hook up to the HS51 yet. That means all I have are theories and things for you to try.

I don't recall your setup, but is it possible to try a different DVI -> HDMI cable combination? Perhaps shorter runs or other connectors/adaptors may yield different results.

Do you have access to another DVI video card you could try? I know that VGA quality can vary greatly between video cards, but I don't have much experience with DVI yet. I know that there are variances in consumer electronics equipment with regard to the DVI transmitters and how well they work with certain displays.

If you can compare the text output from your HTPC's desktop to similarly sized text on a test DVD, do you notice a blurring or enlargement on the text as displayed by the projector as opposed to viewing it on a computer monitor? Unfortunately, DVD is going to be upsampled, so I don't know that that is going to help any.

This may be a stupid question, but I'll ask anyway. Have you tried to contact Sony about what you are noticing? There's a small chance that they may be able to supply you with some settings or tips to get the most out of a PC -> projector connection.

One last thing to check, and then I'm tapped for ideas. If you are using WindowsXP, have you tried to adjust the visual appearance settings at all?

Desktop > Properties > Appearance > Effects

Try varying the settings under "Use the following method to smooth edges of screen fonts:" and see if anything changes.

BigScreen, I appreciate your input but this appears to be a known issue with the projector. That is, the pixel cropping issue together with an inability to do pixel perfect over HDMI.

I sent an email to Sony today and anticipate a standard response but this is a start and I will go higher from there.


Brian

I am using the HS51 through HDMI from an HD TiVo and it looks great - no hanging.

Good luck!


Originally posted by bradbissell
I just hooked up the HS51 I am returning to my Zenith 318 dvd player via DVI>HDMI and it completely hung on me. Anyone else have issues with HDCP with the HS51?

Brian, didn't someone manage to comunicate with someone at Sony in their design or engineering team? They posted this on AVS--unless I was dreaming.

You can change the IP range of your network, as a matter of opinion, I always reccomend changing off of the typical 192.168.0.x / 192.168.1.x. The projector claims to use 169.254.x.x which is the same arena that Windows assigns computers as a default address.

With the recent talk about the projector's networking, I decided to try playing around with the connection some. I swear that ethernet port must be there for show. Port scans on the projector show no open ports, no replies to pings, packet sniffing doesn't pick up squat comming from the projector. The last one there is odd, I would think that the projector would spit out something to declare itself on a network. . . or at least a check to see if anything else is using the same IP.

I've got two theories at the moment:
1. port was added as feature that was later removed or gimped maybe it was seen as too troublesome for the average user.
2. port is for service techs only. . . or at least that's what sony would prefer.

I dunno. . . I need to play around with it some more. . .

Jason Turk is probably at CES in Vegas is why he isn't responding to e-mails would be my guess...

This is my first post here, Thanks to reading these forums and all that participate, I'm a new HS51 owner. Thanks guys for the great info. I'm also a newbe to HT. I've got a problem with my set-up and any feedback would be greatly appreciated. First my set-up.
HS-51
110" Silverstar
Denon 2900 DVD
Denon 3805 receiver
Sony HD300 DTV box
The 2900 is connected straight to the pj by a 30' Ram component cable (ceiling mount) and looks awesome. The HD300 was supposed to connect by a DVI to HDMI Ram cable, but no dice. The HD300 won't see the connection no matter what I do. I've run the component cable to the receiver, tried 2 different 6' sets to allow the 3805 to switch the component to run both sat and DVD, but the picture quality of the DVD is not as good when it is run thru the 3805 with the extra cable jumper. Not by alot, but noticeable. The HD300 has an RGB out. Would this be a quality option? As good or better than component? I don't know which is supposed to be better. Any other options anyone can think of. It's either try RGB or return the 300 and spring the extra bucks for the HR10250 DVR with HDMI.
thoughts?
thanks
HDtee

Originally posted by Bytehoven
1st I adjusted the contrast and brightness. I then found using the AUTO mode tended to crush whites a little. So I found if I switched from AUTO to ON, and played with gamma 1, 2 & 3, I still had very good blacks but no white crush. If I didn't mind giving up just a slight touch of black, I can switch to high lamp mode, and the image falls nicely between Standard and unadjusted CINEMA. That is, much better blacks, but bright whites with no crushing. At some point I will list all of my settings, once I am sure I have then right where I want them.
I think Bill Cushman indicated that turning the contrast down with the AUTO mode helped. You might want to look at his review for his numbers. Just keep in mind that if you don't use the AUTO mode you have basically turned off what is the magic about this projector and you might be just as happy (or happier) with a Sanyo Z3 or Sony HS20. The difference between AUTO and ON is something like the difference between 4000:1 on/off CR and 1000:1 on/off CR, although it is doing it by moving things around by scene.

- if someone knows how to tame AUTO mode just a little bit, please let me know. It seems using ON and picking the level of black processing is what gets ya in between the two extremes. The gamma controls also help a little.
Bill also mentioned somewhere that the black level control is basically a black crushing control. As the low and high settings just crush different amounts of the near 0 (or 7.5 IRE) stuff and "off" lets it be displayed.

I'm looking forward to trying the YUV input to see if the HS-51 can properly sync to 48hz, as it does not seem to do so via HDMI or VGA-RGB. Any tips in this area would also be greatly appreciated.

I don't think the IScan supports it, but the specs for the HS51 seem to indicate that the mode for getting a multiple of 24Hz is 1080/24PsF. This is also something that the Qualia accepts. I know the Lumagen guys have been working on getting that output working, but I don't know if it is stable yet. And a report on the Faroudja DVP-1080 said they would support this output, but this is an expensive unit.

--Darin

Originally posted by Bytehoven
I have had my 1st couple of hours with the HS-51 and I must say I am very impressed. I am routing my video as... RP-91->SDI->IScan HD->DVI/HDMI->HS-51. I also plan to try VGA-YUV from the Iscan to see what additional formats and frame rates are supported.

For some context, I am coming off 2 years with a NEC HT1000 as well as a one week test drive of the Infocus 7205. The 7205 goes back tomorrow, and I don't think I will miss it.

So...

- I find 720p_60 is the best Iscan setting to use. It gives me a clean Iscan checrkerboard 1:1 pixel pattern. 1080i_60 cause the checkerboard pattern to get some vertical banding in the pattern, showing the HS-51 scaler at work.

Am I reading this correctly that you are getting 1:1 pixel mapping over HDMI? And without a black border?

If so you are the first (or second if you include Projector Central) to accomplish this over HDMI. It does not make sense that only with the IScan HD has anyone attained 1:1 pixel mapping over HDMI .

Scot

So we have all seen that 720p over HDMI is not pixel for pixel. I read way back in this thread about the WSR review using a iScan HD+ with 720p over HDMI and getting pixel for pixel.

Is this correct or is my memory bad? Has anyone confirmed that the masking is not present when using the iScan? This does not make sense if this is true. Any explanations?

Bryan.

yeah, the problem only seems to be with a particular frequency. . . if you can change the frequency of the signal, you can correct the 720p problem.

So what frequency seems to be the problem?

I connected my Denon 3910 to the projector thru HDMI today and saw the same thing most people here are seeing. A smaller image with black bars around the outside.

So we just need to tweak the freq and it will become pixel for pixel?

Please explain further.

Thanks

Bytehoven,

You mentioned that you have compared both the 7205 and the HS51. Can you comment on the relative brightness of the two? I'm interested in both these projectors, and have a dedicated room with a large screen 136" (diagonal) that I can close down for movies & total light control so can use the high contrast setting for the HS51. The theater room back wall opens and integrates with the games room, so want to be able to be able to casually watch football, music videos etc with some light in the room.

My question is what is the difference in relative brightness between these projectors when the HS51 is set to its highest brightness levels? The specs on the HS51 show its lumens as 1200 and the 7205 as 1100, yet common reports indicate that the 7205 is a very bright projector. I understand a higher gain screen is needed and the HS51 will have low contrast in its highest setting, which is OK for casual viewing. I'm hoping I can get the best of both worlds with the HS51 by changing the projector settings to have a lower brightness high contrast for movies, and a bright projector but low contrast for football.

Regards,
Dean

Sony Input A problems!!!
OK, I need major help! I have my X-box going through the VGA adaptor, I have setup in the dash 480P, 720P, and 1080i!

When I send the signal through Input A on the sony configured for Computer or auto. The sony only sees it as a 640 X 480 signal??? it smooches my 16X9 games into a 4X3 frame. If I set to Video GBR it works fine, but the crappy sonys internal proccessing takes over, crushing blacks, and adding the artifical shapness that makes edges crappy!


I want just the pure signal through computer mode! waaaaaaaa!

Also has any one found out how to turn off the internal video proccessing? So that the sony can just pass the signal?

Originally posted by Tekara
yeah, the problem only seems to be with a particular frequency. . . if you can change the frequency of the signal, you can correct the 720p problem. What frequencies do this? I will connect a PC via DVI (using an DVI-HDMI cable) and would like to test this using PowerStrip.

I think from earlier posts that via HDMI if you try to vary the 720p 60Hz frequency too much you end up losing sync. While I have not tried this on my HS51, in box awaiting return to Sony, that's what I remember hearing. I wonder if Dandaroy has kept after the support folks or if he's just waiting like the rest of us.

Maybe Li On can step in here and offer commentary about those secret aspects he is aware about. :)

There is nothing to add as I simply don't believe such claim! :D

regards,

Li On

You sound almost like Bart Simpson saying, "I didn't do it."

Originally posted by Tekara
I'm using panny's new s97. Uhm, it does not do 480i over hdmi, only 480p/720p/1080i. You can see a lot more informaiton about this DVD player in the DVD player forum, there's a large throud dedicated to this player over there.

The general consesus is that this player is indeed a bargain worth taking advatage of, it is definatiely one of the players out on the market right now. I would definately reccomend this player to anyone in the market for a player.

I heard that the amount of MB that is seen on the s97 is dependent on the display. How much MB do you see on your HS51 and do you notice any pinkish grays when using the hdmi? Thanks.

Originally posted by ay221
I heard that the amount of MB that is seen on the s97 is dependent on the display. How much MB do you see on your HS51 and do you notice any pinkish grays when using the hdmi? Thanks. I do not get this at all. Under what conditions thus far has this been the case, using what video transports, and with enabled S97 features turned on/off?

If a display seems to enhance macro-blocking, the that display has a problem to begin with, no?

Byte, just go order an HS51 from Hi-Fi Buys and keep exchanging it until you find that elusive unit. :D

After much reading of these forums I am glad to say I have now bought a HS50 and a Panasonic S97EBS DVD Player...I eagerly await their arrival.
Cheers for the info guys, I look forward to tweaking them with you :)

Congrats LimeLizzards. I remember when I first ordered and had the anticipation feelings. My HS51 is scheduled to be delivered today, but the UPS website says there was some type of train delay. But, it still says "On Time", so maybe I'll get it late tonight. UPS has delivered as late as 7pm to my place before.

Bytehoven

TheFerret has been following my woes with pixel misalignemnt in the HS50 misalignment thread. I did get my PJ from HiFi Buys and returned it today. They took the box as defective and ordered me a new one. It should be in on Monday. I hated to do this but the Green was off 2 pixels and the Blue off 2. After watching the picture for two weeks and loving what the projector is doing, It was very distracting looking for the color mismatching at the edges.

I'm going to open the box in the store and shine it on a screen before accepting another one, with pixel mismatching.

FWIW - When I spoke with the product specialist at Sony Support he said that this should not be happening and that the lens shift would not make it do this.

Vance

Vance, I had thought about opening the box in their store as well. They have a screen, but not very good light control. Also, to perform the test I would rather have a computer present and I do not own a laptop. I could haul in a PC, if they didn't mind. Personally, I would rather not take delivery of a projector in the condition your original unit was found in.

Originally posted by ay221
I heard that the amount of MB that is seen on the s97 is dependent on the display. How much MB do you see on your HS51 and do you notice any pinkish grays when using the hdmi? Thanks.

I apparently don't have any macro blocking problem in my setup. In the major s97 thread, a few folks commented that it is horridly apparent in the movie "Collateral" and I did not notice any during my viewing of the film.

I'm using the settings reccomended on the first page and with the depth enhancer and 3D-NR set to +1.

I set my brightness so as not to crush blacks, so if there was any MB artifacts to be seen, I should have noticed them.

ah, for the other question, here's a link to a post earlier in this thread that refers to altering the frequency by a half step to remove the cropping issue.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4745173&highlight=60hz#post4745173

I don't know the exacts about this problem, but it does seem that something about the frequency is at fault.

Originally posted by Tekara
ah, for the other question, here's a link to a post earlier in this thread that refers to altering the frequency by a half step to remove the cropping issue.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4745173&highlight=60hz#post4745173

I don't know the exacts about this problem, but it does seem that something about the frequency is at fault.
Yes, I do remember reading that but I thought someone states-side tried this and had no success. Brian (usabrian), have you tried this with any success?

You guys are confusing VGA comments with HDMI comments. Remember via VGA you can get perfect pixel to pixel mapping. Via HDMI you cannot. If you go outside of the projector's range you will get a frequency error over HDMI. 48hz is no help either, same cropping. VGA syncs to just about anything you would want to throw at it.

Brian

P.S: My email response today from Sony was that my unit requires service. Do they just say this for everything or what?

At this point I dont plan to, it sounded like a form letter sent in a knee jerk fashion:

We apologize for the difficulties you are experiencing. Unfortunately, it appears that your product requires service. The location of our Sony service center, as well as any available local, Sony authorized, service centers, is available online at:

http://www.sony.com/repair

Enter the model number, your date of purchase and zip code, then click the SEARCH button. If you choose to have your unit serviced at our Sony Factory Service Center, you can obtain our repair cost estimate and submit your request online. Just click the CONTINUE button and enter the requested information. Once you have finished, you will be sent a confirmation email with further instructions.


Just to clarify your above post, there is no cropping of 720p over VGA! I get a perfect pixel for pixel picture this way. I am just kind of bummed I spend a 100 bucks on a stupid dvi to hdmi cable that gains me no benefit over what I already had.

Brian

I think it could do nothing but help if everybody who has one of these sent an email to their support desk about the HDMI issue, whether you care about it or not!

Brian

HTPC with Geforce 6800GT

Brian

Using InputA (VGA) I achieved a pixel perfect display confirmed using the 1280x720 desktop images in the tweak thread. I have a DVI->HDMI cable on order from BlueJeanCable.

Source is an HTPC with ATI 9600XT.

I'm not getting any cropping over the VGA input either, just over the HDMI.

and I went ahead and shot an email out to sony support about this, I'm not expecting much. But Brian is right, enough people report this, we just may get a fix.

I dont get any cropping over VGA either, pixelperfect in both 60hz and 50hz with no problems.

Just one question for the others using the same: Several controls seems to be missing in the menus when using VGA port, like sharpness, black level, etc. Is it the same for you?

Originally posted by Havocsi
I dont get any cropping over VGA either, pixelperfect in both 60hz and 50hz with no problems.

Just one question for the others using the same: Several controls seems to be missing in the menus when using VGA port, like sharpness, black level, etc. Is it the same for you?

Yep, same here

Brian

Is there a way to send an email to the level 2 support group? Please post the best place to send the email and registered owners can start complaining. We are more likely to get a fix if we all send emails to the same group.

Just one question for the others using the same: Several controls seems to be missing in the menus when using VGA port, like sharpness, black level, etc. Is it the same for you?

This is fairly normal with projectors where they assume you are inputting a computer signal via vga.

Brian

So, ProjectorCentral's suggestion for the HD+ DVDO is a moot point of use and actually furthers a cropping problem. LOL!

Now that the Sony Style coupon seems to be expired, where is everyone picking these units up?

I think I am ready to finally pull the trigger...

UPS just delivered my HS51! However, I'm stuck at work editing video. The anticipation is getting to me. Will take late lunch and run home to check out the delivery.

yay, a standardized reply:

We apologize for the difficulties you are experiencing. We do not have
any information regarding any problem with the SONY VPL-HS51 Projector.
Unfortunately, based on the information in your letter we will be
unable to resolve your issue through email. It appears that your product
requires service. The location of our Sony service center, as well as any
available local, Sony authorized, service centers, is available online
at:

http://eservice.sony.com/webrma/web/index.do

Well, here's to hopeing for the best.

Cool beans. I decided I will be haulnig a PC into HFB when I pick mine up no Monday. If its a cnovengence problem, its also gonna be a return and reorder (no exchanges as this would cut into my return time) through them.

PS I look forward yo your gamma-tweaking activities on this projector. :)

My IMX lens showed up today but I must be using it wrong because I can't get any noticeable decrease in pixelation. The instructions seem dead simple, though...anyone else with an IMX want to share their experiences?

Originally posted by TheFerret
Cool beans. I decided I will be haulnig a PC into HFB when I pick mine up no Monday. If its a cnovengence problem, its also gonna be a return and reorder (no exchanges as this would cut into my return time) through them.

PS I look forward yo your gamma-tweaking activities on this projector. :)

Why do you need to take a pc in with you to check for convergence? Can't you just use the focus grid to see any convergence problems?

Internal test pattern? I actually haven't even considered that. Doh! I was going to display some patterns I created. I wanted to insure an uncropped condition with progressive input native to the panel. So, 720P/RGB from PC seem like the obvious choice.

That's a new one on me too.

Brian

Ooo, so I amn ot the only one on drugs. :D

I find it somewhat odd that LCD has convergence problems anyway, but my understanding the mechanics behind it is limited. Anyone care to throw some light on it?

Also what is the best way to see if your projector suffers from this, I have the Avia home theatre guide, is there a particular test grid I could use to see it?

Cheers

If you don't know already...then maybe ignorance is bliss...

Brian

LOL, and brian ignored it for a couple of weeks. Tee Hee Hee.

Lime, I would simply use a PC and set it to output 1280x720. Then I would create a pattern (or use the one I posted earlier) that is a 1280x720 black field with a few individual 1-pixel by 1-pixel white 'dots' in that field. Since the dots are 1x1 in pixel dimension, you should be able to easily see a convergence issue.

In my opinion, anything less than a 1-pixel divergence is a non-issue. You just have to recognize and accept the tolerances in mass-production environments for these kind of products.

OK, cheers Ferret, I'll give it a whirl when mine arrives, on thursday :)

How much clearance is needed for the air exhaust at the front of the HS51? I have a situation in which I would like to place the projector in a closet in an adjoining room and project through a hole in the wall between the two rooms. This will place the front of the projector close to the wall. There will be plenty of space for ventilation to the sides and rear of the projector.

Greg

Greg, that is a good question! I have considered that very question when designing a environment box (no, not for sound insulation, but more for overall air filtration as I have a dusty home) for the HS51. Are you concerned with a larger opening, heated air exhausting into the sitting room, or can consideration for a larger opening be accommodated?

Ferret,

I already have a small opening that was used for a SIM2 HT300 that I have since sold. I have limited depth in which to mount the projector, and I have an installed screen at a distance which barely will accomodate the HS51- I'm pretty close to 2x screen width with the projector up close to the wall.

With the HS51 installed, how much room can be made available considering the throw? Its an exhaust, so I would guess that unless you have the grill pressed up against something that would seriously compromise the output then you could use either sheet-metal or plastic and form a cowl that redirects the exhaust to the right away from the lens assy.

Ferret,

I've got about three inches and a cowl is exactly what I was thinking I might try to fabricate. I also might investigate placement of a small fan. Thanks for your thoughts on this.

That is what I thought about do.

I wanted to post a few screen shots here before my calibration. I will post these same shots using the same camera after the calibration. I do not know if we will tell any difference. These shots are with the HS51 in these settings which were calibrated using DVE:

Color Temp-Middle
Contrast-75
Brightness-60
Color-48
Tint-51
Sharpness-0
Black Level-Off
Gamma-Off
Lamp-Low
Iris-Auto

I might also mention these images are from a Pioneer Elite 59AVi DVD using HDMI at 480i. Sorry if they do not look so good. I am working with my camera to get the best shots but still learning. These were converted and shrunk down to get them on the thread.

Another.

Last One.

Originally posted by Bytehoven
I'm new to the HS-51, but I haven't seen a focus grid option yet. Where is it located?

I'm still waiting on my hs51, but on my hs10 a crosshair comes up for focusing (with an optional gird in background). The crosshair will show any panel convergence problems.

How do you focus the hs51?

OK I've done all the reading I can do and am ready to make a purchase. I haven't even seen a digital FP in operation for years, nor do I own a TV. So this is ALL based on reading. Your feedback is very much appreciated:

SONY HP51

Da-Lite Model B 106"diag. 16:9 High Power Screen

PJ placed on shelf 16' back. 2' above eye level and 3' off the center line using either lens shift or keystone correction in both directions (screen hanging from 9' ceiling??). Nobody farther off to the side than the edge of screen. I figure this screen will mitigate any reflection off my white walls and ceiling and that any loss in rich blacks will be made up for by the iris control. Also if the pj noise bothers me or it's too bright, I'll have the option of running it at lower light without suffering as much dimness. (Not to mention the opton of bringing the whole setup over to somebody else's house where conditions are less ideal!).

DVD Player???
My strategy is to avoid the whole upscaling/HDMI issue for now and spend $100 or so for a normal machine to tide me over until these issues get worked out and the next generation emerges. Does that mean sending the PJ such a crummy, pre-processed signal that it renders the whole $3K PJ investment superfluous? Do I go for progressive scan with component cables? Does the projector do its own processing? Any specific suggestions for models/settings?

2 Channel Audio Cable to existing stereo system
I know this will enrage a lot of you, but I figure I can go surround later. A lot of the movies I watch were made when there wasn't even such a thing as Dolby. Will I at least get stereo doing it this way?

DaLite 6" Extension Brackets
The company tells me I need these so that the screen doesn't touch the doorframe that protrudes 1". Is this really necessary?

High end surge protector
Is this important?

Thanks for your comments/suggestions. I plan to order the screen tomorrow (sunday) and the rest in a couple of days. I've been unsuccessful at finding any digital projector under $15K on display in a dark room with a large screen anywhere in the greater New York metropolitan region, or anyone knowledgable to talk to. Talk about a leap of faith! Phil

awtryau89 in your last picture, there appears to be a a lot of noise(grain?) in the background and around the blade. Is that what you call Macro Blocking? Or is it just a `grainy` film?

DVD Player???

I'm just doing the same thing and have given up tring to find a dvd player that supports 480 interlaced over HDMI, so the only way (for me) to let the Sony do it's scaling/de-interlacing without the interference of the dvd player is to feed it 480i over the component cables. I plumped for the Panasonic S97, as it has Faroujda scaling on-board which means I have the option of either letting the dvd player do the scaling or the projector. I've heard that the Sony de-interlacer is not very good and that it is good. So I guess we'll find out when we get them eh?
:)

Originally posted by Bytehoven
Which input are you using, what resolution and what player?

I ask because I am running contrast much lower to avoid any clipping of white detail, but my brightness is higher. Maybe I need to start over and adjust contrast 1st then brightness 2nd. By brightness is at 75, so I have some room to lower it.

Thanks IIRC, he is using his Pioner Elite 57AVi or 59AVi DVD player outputting 480i across HDMI and projecting onto a Carada 1.4 gain screen (don't remember the model name).

Eric, have you noticed that while trying to exposure for the scene on the screen the surround area (off the screen) becomes under-exposed? Also folks, Internet Explorer has a nasty habit of making pictures artificially dark. If you were to compare images reproduced in IE6 vs. something like Photoshop, ACDSee, etc. and make sure your viewing monitor is calibrated.

Posted by Eric:
I might also mention these images are from a Pioneer Elite 59AVi DVD using HDMI at 480i.


Posted by Bytehoven:
Which input are you using, what resolution and what player?

Jeez guys it was in the post and actually quoted by Bytehoven!

Brian

pkaynyc, why don't you just buy the dvd player Eric is using above or a player that upconverts to 1080, (1080i does not have this issue). And no self respecting person runs stereo cables since like 1994! At least get yourself a dang cheap A/V receiver and a digital cable! Its not rocket science.

Brian

Hey now, its a Sunday morning and before sufficient coffee induction.

Originally posted by LimeLizzards
awtryau89 in your last picture, there appears to be a a lot of noise(grain?) in the background and around the blade. Is that what you call Macro Blocking? Or is it just a `grainy` film?

Well I am thinking it is the camera. The brackground is a very detailed area in the hall but the blade looks a little washed out to me. I really think these pictures do not do alot of good. I tried to do the screenshot thing but I do not have the right equipment and my pictures cannot do this PJ justice.

O.K. Here's a simple newbie question.

I am ordering an HS51 as my first projector, I already have my room almost complete, am just waiting on the chairs, screen, PJ and trying to decide on a dvd player that matches up well with the HS51 (as it seems many here are).

My screen is supposed to arrive tomorrow, but I haven't yet ordered the PJ.

Would it be o.k. to mount the screen before I get the PJ? In other words, is there sufficient maneuverability of the PJ's image (lens shift, etc.) to align the image with a screen that is mounted towards the top of the front wall (necessary due to the Synergy triple 20 the will sit below the screen, housing my equipment and center channel)?

FYI, my room has a tray ceiling, which extends about a foot above the top of the vertical wall.

I am just anxious to get the screen up when it gets here if possible, if not, I can wait a little longer.

Thanks

At least get yourself a dang cheap A/V receiver and a digital cable!

Will that do me any good, if I'm not using subwoofers and multiple speakers at this stage?

Originally posted by LimeLizzards
I'm just doing the same thing and have given up tring to find a dvd player that supports 480 interlaced over HDMI....
According to the specs and one report in the forums, the Sony DVP-NS975V supports 480 interlaced over HDMI. At $300 list, it may be the cheapest DVD player which has it at this time.

According to the specs and one report in the forums, the Sony DVP-NS975V supports 480 interlaced over HDMI. At $300 list, it may be the cheapest DVD player which has it at this time.

Anyone know what the Brit version of this is called and where I can get a spec sheet? The one on the Sony site is lame.

Also anyone know what the Brit version of Pioner Elite 57AVi or 59AVi are and again,where I can find a spec sheet for it as the Pioneer Site is again lame.

WSR and PC both agreed on using the HDMI input for best results yet owners are experiencing pixel cropping/blanking with this input and end up using the component input for best results?

Can someone clarify/correct my interpretations regarding the HS51....


(1) If you send a 480i component signal from a DVD player to the HS51 component input and allow the projector to upscale to 720P, there is no pixel cropping and this method works as expected.

(2) If you send a 720P/1080i component signal already upscaled to the component input on the HS51, there is no pixel cropping and this method works as expected.

(3) If you send a 480i HDMI signal from a DVD player to the HDMI input on the HS51, 3% of pixels are lost and resolution is reduced and this is the blanking issue discussed?

(4) If you send a 720P/1080i component signal from a DVD player already upscaled to the HDMI input on the HS51, 3% of pixels are lost and resolution is reduced and this is the blanking issue discussed?

(5) If you allow a DVDO IscanHD+ to send 720P/1080i from using DVI-HDMI cable to the projectors HDMI port there is no pixel cropping? If true, How is this any different from a DVD player such as a Marantz Dv9500 feeding the projector 720P/1080i from its HDMI port?

(6) Is there a recall on this projector and has Sony halted production on this model?

(7) If so, can you clarify the potential issues.


Thanks

Steve, this is incorrect. The Component (YPbPr) also experiences pixel cropping just like the HDMI. The only high-bandwidth input is RGB (on Input-A). And this problem is only with 720P on the Component & HDMI inputs.