This high contrast is reached particularly by an uncommonly protruding schwarzwert

Jesus, is this a Mel Brooks film? ;)

Seriously though, trying to read that you can see why we need a true english translation of their site. I emailed them but they never responded.

Brian

Originally posted by reaper
Anyone else getting babelfish to work? Seems problematic again.
I could not get it to translate the entire site. I was able to cut and paste just the section on CR, and get a translation.

use google translation, guys

Originally posted by jschefdog
If you can convert component to VGA/RGB, you should be able to eliminate the borders. It doesn't seem to matter what the source is, if it will feed VGA/RGB to Input A in Computer Mode, it should not have the borders. So far people have reported success with HTPC, scalers, the Momitsu DVD player and DVI to VGA converters.

Does this mean that a cable like this would enable me to use Input A in computer mode: www optomahometheater com / howto / b8_4 asp (figure 2)

Morten

google fails half way through.

http://www.freetranslation.com/ worked on the whole ting but did a pretty bad job of it all.

reaper

Houston, Benedictus in Germany calibrated a HS50 to 7000:1 @ D65 using a colorfilter. I talked to them this morning and they confirmed the number. Their unit is now in the hands of the Heimkinomagazin reviewers (oldest german HT-mag). You can phone them if you like, the number is on the online page. www.benedictus.de.. It was my impression that I wasn't the first to phone them about that. Did not ask if the unit was calibrated by Ekkehartt (cine4home). 7k:1 --- hard to believe but they say at D65...

Sorry dude, what's D65?

Morten, when using Input-A there are three signal settings: Video-GBR, Component, and Computer-GBR that you can select from.

LimeLizzards, D65 = 6500Kelvin in color temp.

Thanks, but someone mentioned that you could only select Computer if you had the right input type - it has to be VGA/RGB or something like that so my question is what cable I can use to be able to use "Computer mode".

Morten

Thanks, but someone mentioned that you could only select Computer if you had the right input type - it has to be VGA/RGB or something like that so my question is what cable I can use to be able to use "Computer mode".

right, u can have straight component > VGA cable but it only works with "component input", that still give you blanking issue with 720p. Only VGA in with computer mode can be 1:1 Mapping. Now, that's comfirmed. By the way, transcoder doesn't work at all. Save the bucks.

google fails half way through.


Forgot to mention this, google translation is limited to number of characters... it's not failing, babefish is and has been for now and then since cine4home posted the 1st hs50/51 review.

Try this one

http://www.freetranslation.com/web.htm

Is it possible to check for projector defects like dead/stuck pixels, and panel misalignments using a white sheet, instead of a screen? I plan to install the projector first and then determine the picture size that I want.

Try this one

http://www.freetranslation.com/web.htm

This works!! but you have to post the complete URL, it doesn't translate the links within the page. Thanks!

here the url for those don't know how to get the them

*cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/SonyVPLHS50/HS50Test.htm

I think it can be said that like the Panasonic AE700 results the Sony HS51 will need color-correction to get the maximum contrast out while maintaining D65. I created a PDF off of that website's translation, but would need Cine4home's permission before making it publicly available.

Ferret,
I think you are correct on the filtering. I know I can do better but I an wondering at what expense of lumens. I want you to look into this for us. Since we will be working together on a calibration, check on getting us some filters that will adapt directly onto the Sony and lets cut some of these colors so we can run the contrast way up. I really think that for most situations this is not needed because we can get well into the 3000:1 range without filtering but I would really like to see a 6000-7000:1 CR.

I'm pretty sure the condition is squarely on the lamp. I think part of my lackluster impression at times for the HS51 is due to the continued OOTB (out of the box) experience, which is well below what the hype got me to expect. Also, considering the black level I am use to I could either go much large than what I am use to in projected image, or calibrate for maximum CR@D65.

Maybe there would be a happy medium where a pinkish vs. a red corrective filter would work. I remember Cine4home mentioning in a reply on the AE700 tweak thread that the reason why he never posts make/model filter information is units differ from one to the next, and to illustrate his point a customer's AE700 didn't require as-strong a red filter (it was pink, he said, IIRC) as his test unit.

I understand. What I was hoping for was you could find a local establishment we could get filters and try them while we calibrated each PJ.

BTW, I posted my settings on the Tweak Thread.

Also, in reading the Cine4home review, one thing that interests me a great deal was the "Shading" or color uniformity adjustments in the factory menus. These could come in handy.

Yes, I agree and will try. I had zero luck a couple of days ago finding a local supplied with a 77mm (74mm is not standard) for an absorptive-ND2 filter. Some places can ordeer them with 2-4 weeks lead time, but ...

Lemme try to find some 77mm CC filters for red. Not sure I even understand what shading is in terms of digital projection.

Originally posted by zeroendless
sowk, you are alright.



I agree with zeroendless--- sowk ...you are allright. I for one would like to read your review. You are outspoken, but have good things to say. So, bring it on !

Well, I got my answer to my previous post about a 2-pixel "halo" around the image. I called Sony tech support and they said the projector is defective. Now the fun begins. It's been more than 30 days, so they may give me a fight about returning the projector and it may have to go for repair instead. My screen is coming this week. Aaaarrrghhh!

Originally posted by mintakaX
I agree with zeroendless--- sowk ...you are allright. I for one would like to read your review. You are outspoken, but have good things to say. So, bring it on !

Thank you, I will be trying to post a review this weekend then!

Did cine4home discuss measured lumens in their review?

I find it quite interesting that cine4home's discussion of the scaler is so positive. It is almost night/day different from what PC reported late last year. In fact, cine4home goes so far as to say that the scaling is so good that upconverted digital signals over HDMI are not really a benefit.

Another interesting observation occured during their contrast discussion. So far this is the only mention of light output I have read. They have said that the projector works great in low lamp mode for screen up to "2,5m" which I assume is 2.5m to us. A 2.5m wide screen is 98.42" wide or ~113" diagonal. Mine is only 92" diagonal. So, brightness does not seem to be a concern for me here. Maybe others were hoping for bigger screens though.

They made some comments about convergence and seemed to indicate that convergence is excellent although not perfect. My take away was that any misconvergence disappears at normal viewing distances, which is what I expected. I think that issue may have been blown out of proportion on this forum due to a few bad units. I'ts probably the exception and not the rule.

They did speak about the scaling/blanking issue and noted it as a major weakness of the projector. Not much else to say there. It sux and everyone knows it sux :(.

They commented about color gradations across the screen and noted some on theirs but seemed to indicate that it was not noticable during normal film viewing and largely not a concern.

Vertical banding was not noted at all on the test unit. An excellent plus for the HS51. However, the did seem to point out that pixel structure remains noticable, and the AE700 performs better in this area.

Much of the rest was stuff we already knew like the blanking issue goeas away over VGA.

Overall, I kept reading things where cine4home was saying that the unit is almost flawless or leaves little to be desired. My take away was that the unit's one and only flaw was this blanking issue.

Did anyone else get something different/more out of their translation? It's an effort to try to understand some of it, so I may have got it wrong. Overall though, it definitely boosted my interest in the unit.

reaper

Originally posted by reaper
Did cine4home discuss measured lumens in their review?

Not that I could tell but I just got a reading of 362 with Colorfacts. This is with almost perfect grayscale tracking and the meter aimed at the PJ. Low Lamp Auto Iris.

I am german reaper and according to cine4home this was the best LCD in his lab sofar, with exception of the nasty blanking/overscan issues. After this review and my talk with the guys from benedictus I am seriously considering to buy a colorfilterd unit, should be good enough for a few years...

Originally posted by reaper
I find it quite interesting that cine4home's discussion of the scaler is so positive. It is almost night/day different from what PC reported late last year. In fact, cine4home goes so far as to say that the scaling is so good that upconverted digital signals over HDMI are not really a benefit.
The WSR review article also had mostly positive comments about the internal deinterlacing and scaling of the HS-51 they reviewed. I tried 480i component from my old Sony DVD player and was surprised at how good it is. I could live with it, but still like the image from my HTPC better. Projector Central recommended using a scaler. A few people here have reported using a scaler, maybe they can comment on any improvement they see.

Originally posted by zeroendless
By the way, transcoder doesn't work at all. Save the bucks.
I was going to suggest that Morten try something like this component to VGA transcoder (http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/kd-ctca2.htm), but then read this comment. Have you tried this type of transcoder and it didn't work? I haven't tried it myself.

Originally posted by docphi
Well, I got my answer to my previous post about a 2-pixel "halo" around the image. I called Sony tech support and they said the projector is defective. Now the fun begins. It's been more than 30 days, so they may give me a fight about returning the projector and it may have to go for repair instead. My screen is coming this week. Aaaarrrghhh!

Sonystyle took it back, but, not without a fight. They tried to stick me with the restocking fee. I said no way. This unit was defective right out of the box as per tech support. Now to wait for the refund and order another one.

So, a question about the 720p blanking issue.

I don't have any HiDef equipment in my house yet. But my understanding is that almost any device that spits out 720p can also spit out 1080i. Set top boxes, upconverting DVD players etc. The only exception I know of so far is the Xbox. Some games are 720p and others are 1080i. I don't really care about current gen xbox. But my worry is that Xbox 2 or PS3 will decide that ALL games should be 720p with no 1080i output EVER available. Then I will be stuck with the cropping on every game I play.

Does anyone know of any other devices that can only spit out 720p? Am I crazy to think that the cropping issue won't be too much of an issue since I could potentially send the unit 1080i from all sources? Is there a major hole in the logic there? Obviously we don't know about the Xbox 2 yet, etc. But am I wrong about set top boxes or PVRs. Are a majority of them only capable of producing 720p?

reaper

It is almost night/day different from what PC reported late last year. In fact, cine4home goes so far as to say that the scaling is so good that upconverted digital signals over HDMI are not really a benefit.


WE all know 'friends of us' from other commerials reviews site were pushing scaler more than reviewing this unit. Sadly... many read and believe h51/50 is piece of worthless PJ without good scaler and they still do. LOL.

If they thought 500U is better than Z2 in term of Deinterlacing(back in the day). Guess what, hs50/51 1080i is far superior than 500U, regardless hdmi or component in. My viewing material is 85% 1080i hd and i like it better with the sony. How worst can sony be???...

I was going to suggest that Morten try something like this component to VGA transcoder, but then read this comment. Have you tried this type of transcoder and it didn't work? I haven't tried it myself.

that's what i have, but with older version 2 model. I used it for transcoding component > VGA to 21" CRT monitor. Served as a reference to calibrate my projector while not in used. Poor man ISF...LOL and NO it doesn't work with all the settings i tried on the transcoder.

I just flip the sony menu and indeed... it says vga sync with green, that's meant you can used component > vga cable straight without transcoder.

Originally posted by reaper
So, a question about the 720p blanking issue.

I don't have any HiDef equipment in my house yet. But my understanding is that almost any device that spits out 720p can also spit out 1080i. Set top boxes, upconverting DVD players etc. The only exception I know of so far is the Xbox. Some games are 720p and others are 1080i. I don't really care about current gen xbox. But my worry is that Xbox 2 or PS3 will decide that ALL games should be 720p with no 1080i output EVER available. Then I will be stuck with the cropping on every game I play.

Does anyone know of any other devices that can only spit out 720p? Am I crazy to think that the cropping issue won't be too much of an issue since I could potentially send the unit 1080i from all sources? Is there a major hole in the logic there? Obviously we don't know about the Xbox 2 yet, etc. But am I wrong about set top boxes or PVRs. Are a majority of them only capable of producing 720p?

reaper


If you do what I did, you by pass any problems in the future with 720P

Buy this... http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Video/DCDA1.ASP

Not only will it fix the borders problem, but the video proccessing problem, contrast problems, color, and sharpness problems!!!

BTW... You'r welcome for future refence!

(P.S.) Im assuming the PS3 and Xbox 2 with have digital outs!

Folks, I would just like to make one caution as of this afternoon. It would appear Sony is beginning to take a stance on returns due to panel misalignment. My dealer contacted Sony about my unit being returned for a another. Sony flat out refused to take the return. As my dealer is a national chain, they will eat this unit for a swapped unit, but will not swap a second time.

I did inform the dealer that if the replacement unit is as bad, IMO, or worse, then another swap would not be need. I would return it and find another product altogether. While I can see some great things in the projector, the combination of 720P cropping and unacceptable panel misalignments in some cases seems to be unjustified in their stance.

Maybe if Sony took the time to insure quality control a lot of the returns would not have had to be entertained. And I am glad I went through with a retail endeavor as I would only imagine the degree of frustration had I gone to an Internet t dealer other than Sony & Crotchfield. Funny, though, that now even Sony is getting into the restocking-fee game.

To me, Sony message is "keep our bad goods or pay a penalty for our poor quality."

Anyway, glad to hear of the good news from Cine4home's website. I have not yet read the final review (at work) and wonder if he employed a pink or red CC filter.

I recieved a good VGA cable today (bettercables.com--thanks Gary !) and my previous VGA problems went away. The Iscan HD+ 720P -> HS51 Input-A picture is awesome. OK, now I can finally settle down and watch some movies !

I look at it this way. How bad does a 6' VGA cable have to be before its determined to be the responsible entity in red, green, and blue pixels not being able tio align themselves over one another to produce a white pixel? :)

And when the problem if further verified via Component and HDMI ...

Ferret, what is your expectation on panel alignment?

Originally posted by SOWK

Buy this... http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Video/DCDA1.ASP


I am trying to avoid spending an additional $300.

(P.S.) Im assuming the PS3 and Xbox 2 with have digital outs!

Me too. However, the question remains... will they typically send a 720p signal out, 1080i or both? No one knows outside of the development companies.

reaper

Originally posted by JJay
Ferret, what is your expectation on panel alignment?
I do recognize the tolerances involved (I've posted as much), but there also comes a time when QC is ignored first, and customers second.

Please keep in mind my philosophy on projection and imaging. If there is something annoying to me to a point of distraction, I am being kept from enjoying it. Some are not annoyed because of basic limitation (blind, don't find factor X annoying, etc.) and go about their enjoyment. Others happen into a category where they are observed, annoyed, and enjoyment is inhibited.

No, I am not trying to skirt your question, but laying the foundation to better understand me, vs. someone else. Given the tolerances involved I figured <1 pixel from one or two panels would not be observable and this not inhibit enjoyment. Get to an even integer and maybe software could virtually shift for correct, or at the very least only effect the borders. Take both of these conditions and for those like me the potential can produce unexpected and undesirable situations.

I've already described either in this thread or one of the other threads what I happened to run into on Thursday while watching Sunrise Earth. That severely backlit object should have had a [near] black leading edge all around it for the reddish-orange back sunlight. Instead it was green (due to the +1 pixel green misalignment I'm guessing). Haven't fully resolve why this was, but considering this panel is out of alignment by more than a pixel horizontally is was a condition ripe for visibility.

Now, add this to the red panel being 1 pixel out of alignment and the combination is 'too much' for me. Is it too much for someone else? Heck if I know, and judging by EHUFF's poll I would say it was too much. So, my expectation is to wind up with a unit I can tolerate and enjoy.

The Ferret
So your red panel is off by 1 pixel and your green is off by 1+?
You can see the effect of the above on video material at normal viewing distances?

Originally posted by SOWK
If you do what I did, you by pass any problems in the future with 720P

Buy this... http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Video/DCDA1.ASP

Not only will it fix the borders problem, but the video proccessing problem, contrast problems, color, and sharpness problems!!!

BTW... You'r welcome for future refence!

(P.S.) Im assuming the PS3 and Xbox 2 with have digital outs!

Did you have to hook up the power supply to the Dtrovision?

I can, but as I said previously I thought what I was seeing was worse than what a mere misalignment could have been and initially thought maybe I was looking at 480P up-converted material. Yes, I thought it was the show, initially. If there was a 1/4-VGA 8-color imitation of the image and what I observed it is something like the attached file.

Keep in mind this was a very early morning sunrise and the low on the horizon sun skimmed the water the object sat in. Everything was backlit or exposed in a manner to produce strong colors from a limited palette.

Originally posted by TheFerret
I look at it this way. How bad does a 6' VGA cable have to be before its determined to be the responsible entity in red, green, and blue pixels not being able tio align themselves over one another to produce a white pixel? :)

And when the problem if further verified via Component and HDMI ...

So are the panel misalignments making you reconsider DLP, or just another LCD brand like a high end Epson?

No, a single case of panel misalignment is not enough. But, if the replacement unit is as bad or worse then this aspect plus the pixel cropping issue on 720P, the unwanted HDMI processing (Yuck!), etc. can add up to redirect one's attention else.

Have I considered DLP? Sure, but that's a basket case in its own right. Not having seen the HS2+ products yet I cannot say for sure if my previous annoyance condition would continue to out-annoy a misalign, pixel-cropped, over-processed attitude-ridden Sony. :) Sorry, just being funny, here.

I've got next week with some calibration endeavors, including (hopefully) color correction for maximum contrast at D65. This is my goal. My prefered input will have to be Input-A, though.

Originally posted by ay221
Did you have to hook up the power supply to the Dtrovision?


Yes I did, I'm a freak when it somes to make sure all my devices are feed good signals and power! Check out my review coming Very Soon!

Byte, thank you very much! I will definitely go test this. I was hoping it was something in the source or source-transport as what appeared seemed like misalignment on steroids! I think I know which Indy scene you are talking about (they are digging in the spot where the tomb is suppose to be that houses the ark, right?

I think the Avia disk has a Y/C test pattern ... and no, I do not have a Y/C control on any of my sources that I know of (panasonic RP-56, Sony DVP-CX985V, Samsung SIR-TS160, and a PC).

Sony VPL-HS51 REVIEW
By: SOWK (Someone Who Knows)

Quick read review:

Ratings scale 1 (worst) – 10 (best)

Picture 10* (with 720P Input A computer mode)
Picture 7 (with any other connections)
Processing/Scaling 4 ( bad sharpness, crushed blacks)
Inputs 8 (would like to have seen DVI)
Ease of use 6 (10 if no need to get all signals to 720P
- VGA)
*The Sony is the ultimate home theater projector for the $$$ in image – but requires you to get all your video output signals to 720P, and need to go into the Input A on the Sony in computer mode only!


Long read review:

Equipment:

Sony VPL-HS51
- Connected –
Monster Cable Power 12' Powerline 100 power cable/ High Grade VGA
cable no name 15’
- Configuration –
Input A / Cinema mode / 50 Brightness / 70~80 contrast / Lamp: Low /
Iris: Auto / Everything else to default.
- Screen –
DIY 110” custom for the Sony at the above settings. (How might you
add: Well I’ll tell you?) The Board is a large 8’ X 4’ Foam Board - only
6lbs - from a local art store! Then got a whole bunch of paint samples
from Home Depot (whites thru Grays) I picked a sample called fog, very
close to white but not quite. Enhances blacks, and doesn’t at all take
away from the whites on the projected image! Put 5 coats of paint on
w/ the smoothest roller possible. Then I made custom Black leather
borders.

Vinc Bravo D2
- Connected –
Standard connected power / Monster Cable DVI400 6’
- Configuration –
DVI out / 720P out / default brightness / default contrast / default color
Input A on the Sony is set to Computer mode.

Microsoft X-Box
- Connected –
Standard Connected power / Neoya X2VGA VGA out
- Configuration –
MS 480P dash board / display 480P / 720P / 1080i / widescreen display
type.
Input A on the Sony is Set to Computer for 720P games / Video GBR for
480P and
1080i

Dtrovision DC-DA1 DVI to VGA converter w/ Full HDCP compliance
- Connected –
Standard Power Adaptor / Input: Vinc Bravo D2’s Monster Cable DVI
400 / Output:
The high grade 15’ VGA cord
- Configuration –
None

Belkin Isolator Power Strip
- Connected –
Sony VPL-HS51 / Microsoft X-Box / Vinc Bravo D2 / Linksys Wireless G
adaptor /
Dtrovision DC-DA1 / Optical to Coaxial Audio converter.
- Configuration –
None

Ok… Now that you know the Setup :)

The Sony VPL-HS51 is one of the best projectors I have ever had the pleasure to test, and now own. I’m not new to video imaging just AVS forums. Comparing it to other projectors like the Infocus X1 / 4805, Sharp XV-Z10000U, Sharp XV-Z12000U, Epson Cinema 500, Viewsonic PJ551, Sim2 300, Barco, Runco. The Sony can do better blacks. And over the majority has better coloring, also a huge Plus for m is that it has a very low db sound output. Compaired to my last Projector the Viewsonic PJ551 it is silent, and the Sony’s blacks and contrast is night and day different 400:1 to 6000:1. The viewsonic configured on the old custom screen looked like a 2000:1 projector! And the Sony still blows it out of the water. But again I am using a custom screen just for the Sony. The viewsonic couldn’t do variations of blue, as they would have a hue of purple in it, the Sony’s color is spot on, no tweaking needed if you are using computer mode with input A.

I used many test games / movies / and played with all configurations.

The Sony is a must buy if you spend just a little more.

You must use 720P Input A - Computer Mode for me to really recommend this unit.

I test the unit out at a local store first, about 4 hour worth, brought in laptop, x-box. Was only looking for the contrast differences at the time!

Got the unit 2 days later from www.Cousinsvideo.com - next day air, double boxed. I worked at UPS for 3 ½ years ha-ha. BTY Cousin’s Video has some of the best customer service ever, and fast delivery!

I bought the Bravo D2 for $150.00 knowing its DVI output is DVD reference quality!
Bought a 13.3’ HDMI monster cable / HDMI to DVI adaptor. Then was like great I’m good to go. 1080i to the Sony, get super good quality. Avoid the 720P blanketing issue! Yes. All this was based on the review from projector central. Boy was I wrong. The review stated video processing was only on analog inputs, and the only problem with digital was the 720P blanketing issue. Nope. My experiences – I hooked everything up properly, popped in a bran spankin new Spiderman 2 Superbit DVD fresh out of the box, awaiting the most perfect DVD image to date. Instead I got ---- What the F*#^, this image sucks / and this was only the menu system, (I switch between all modes of the Vinc Bravo D2 480p/720p/1080i) my Previous calibrated Business projector (Viewsonic PJ551) looked significantly sharper AKA different movie/images. “Well may be it only the Spiderman 2 DVD” switched it out with X2 collector’s edition, (tested to be super clean on my Viewsonic going thru a Laptop) and had the same reaction. Now thinking maybe the Bravo D2 sucks major - you know what – So I bring in my laptop to hook up, put in Spiderman 2 superbit DVD and switch the Sony to Input A Computer mode. And was like WOW! This image rocks!!! I’m selling this crappy Bravo D2… So I played a bit with the Sony’s settings brightness, contrast, low / high, cinema, standard, dynamic. Then after very long sessions 6 hours worth, I was right to build a screen directly for the Sony I reset everything to default. With my screen I don’t need to touch any settings. Then I figured I would chg the input mode to Component and then Video GBR. Component’s colors were way off, as is should have been as it was an RGB signal. Then I went to Video GBR, and was like what the F*#^, the blanketing issue was there and the image looked like the Bravo D2’s. Now I’m thinking that’s weird. I quickly ran to my Bed room with a Nintendo Gamecube hooked up to a VGA monitor using a very nice Component to VGA adaptor, and carefully took off the adaptor and brought it into the living room and hooked it up to the Bravo D2 with component out. Ran it to the Sony with VGA, in computer mode. Now the image was a lot better and only in a 4X3 format??? but not as good as the Laptop at 720P. I then tried to chg the output from 480P to 720P, and was very disappointed… The Bravo D2 doesn’t support upconverstion of HDCP material thru the analog outputs. I needed to have a perfect image and ran back to the laptop looking for the DVDO HD+ I was thinking Bravo D2 to DVI in output 720P VGA, great I’m set, but at a later date, I don’t have $1500 to spend. But no it still won’t do what I need, more later! Now I was pissed about the 4X3 only on the Sony using the Bravo, converter, and VGA. Hey stupid Sony, 480P is a widescreen format! I then turn on my X-box and used DOA 3 in 480P to see what would happen. The same thing, everything was smooched into a 4X3 format. But the Image was Beautiful. Contrast color, brightness, blacks, everything except the 4X3 smooched image. I went into the menu to see the Sony in computer mode would see it only as 640X480! (BTW 1080i, and 1080p are also smooched in to a 4X3 1024X768 resolution window) Now I’m pissed at Sony, I spend the next couple of days talking / e-mailing / writing to Sony about there Product problems. There Live Chat would always refer me to the 800 number. There 800 number keep sending me to Sony computers, because I was talking about preset modes on the Sony, and wanted to make 2 for 480P both 720X480, and 852X480 also 2 for 1080i/p. But Sony only response was no you can’t do that! There e-mail just came back we are not planning any firmware updates, or future chg to the Sony’s functions. To fix my problem all they need to do is add an aspect chg mode to the computer input mode. But they won’t. Widescreen review also stated this, and they said Sony knew about the problem and was hopping they would ix it for production models, NOPE!!! So, now I very mad at Sony. But figure I find away around my problems!!! I start asking questions to the sales division at DVDO about the HD+ I was really excited about getting some answers back. Boy they were not what I was expecting. VGA is only pass thru – it can’t convert my X-box VGA 480P, or 1080i to 720P. I was like that’s ok I’ll just use Component and send out at 720P, but found out it wont be future ready, the component input wont take 1080i or 1080P and down convert to 720P, Then I was like ok, well PS3 and X-box 2 are coming out soon and I hope they will use digital outs. So I asked will the DVDO process 1080P input thru DVI? Answer = no, it wont accept an 1080P input. I was not going to spend $1500.00 on a processor that is not prepared be ready for the next year’s electronics/HD-DVD’s at 1080P!

Now pissed further at Sony for not just giving all of us a firmware update. I was thinking, most device that send out HD thru digital have the ability to send 720P anyhow, so I just need a DVI to VGA converter for my DVD’s and future gaming consoles. Look online, all are about $500.00. I still cringed, I could buy a HTPC, that does both DVD and HD feeds for that! (Then being the PC freak I am, it ended up being closer in price to the DVDO!) So I decided it was a no go. I just got out of that industry, AKA updating every 2 month to get the best performance possible from my PC. I then 4 days later found Digital connections was selling the Dtrovision DC-DA1 for $259.00 I was like, yes it cheap and supports full HDCP! I figured I would be the first to try it. Now that I have it, it works perfect and supports 1080P input as well. So I now have fixed my DVD movies, The BravoD2 in 720P looks grand, and its pixel perfect, and no video processing. Plus the blacks weren’t crushed like they were with HDMI! I did watch the Spiderman DVD originally on the Bravo D2 HDMI. Then compared HDMI to VGA in certain scenes that bothered me, no shadow detail, and now I see shadow detail that wasn’t there before! I still haven’t fixed my X-box problem, but will live with it in Video GBR mode for 480P, and 1080I, this is so I can get widescreen support! 720P work great in Computer mode. I have found a device that would fix it but would cost $400.00 (It’s a VGA HD to VGA HD converter, allows any VGA signal input to be output to 720P) and is not worth it for me to spend to fix a product that is going to be replaced by the ear end with X-box 2.
I want to report that the video processing in this unit is really bad, By switching my 720P games from computer mode to Video GBR, it is harder to follow characters on screen, less sharp, has artificial edge enhancing that looks like very bad compression, it has the 720P border issues, and has crushed blacks, Major tweaking would be needed to get shadow detail back, and then the image would be way to washed out anyhow!

So, sorry about the long review, but is the Sony the best projector I have used, yes. Am I fully satisfied? no. If Sony allowed us to turn off the processing for all inputs except input a computer mode (none already), and added Aspect ratios to computer mode, Yes I would be.

If setup properly does the Sony really do blacks/Shadow/grey scale detail justice?
Yes, Comparable to my professionally tweaked 22” Diamond Pro 2060U Computer Monitor

If I buy it will I need to update in the next 2 years?
No

Do I need to worry about over heating?
No, but look at my pics, I have built a 25db fan to pull air from the unit anyhow. Plus make the bulb life longer and less damage to the LCD panels. The unit runs much cooler. And barley even warm (a little over room temp) after 3 hour of use!

Should I buy this unit?
Yes, one of Sony’s best products, but has some faults.

How does it compare to the other units you looked at?
Well for me DLP are a no go, I am very prone to rainbow, I see it still on a six X color wheel, plus yellows and reds are muddy, but in general color is usually better on DLP’s, better then the Sony: No!

How is it compared to other LCD’s?
Well much better coloring and blacks/shadows. But it does need a light controlled room. The unit is dim. But I went from a true 1200 lumens to about 400 lumens projector.



(BTW) The Viewsonic didn’t have any problem like the Sony because A. it doesn’t have an internal video processor, only scaler. And B. The scaler didn’t have different modes, it would take all signals and scale it to the native resolution, and the Viewsonic allowed for you to tell it if the signal was 16X9 or 4X3 aspect.


Ratings scale 1 (worst) – 10 (best)

Picture 10* (with 720P Input A computer mode)
Picture 7 (with any other connections)
Processing/Scaling 4 ( bad sharpness, crushed blacks)
Inputs 8 (would like to have seen DVI)
Ease of use 6 (10 if no need to get all signals to 720P
- VGA)

*The Sony is the ultimate home theater projector for the $$$ in image – but requires you to get all your video output signals to 720P, and need to go into the Input A on the Sony in computer mode only!

Please check out the Gallery and leave comments!

Please ask any questions. And post what you think of my review!
It is long, and has mostly experiences in it, but tells you what to watch for and how to avoid them!

P.S. if there are any spacing mistakes, or format issues, I first wrote in word and then copyed and pasted!

Originally posted by Bytehoven
That's the scene.
There is a Y/C menu in the Factory menu. It appears to only be active on the component, s-video, composite inputs. Not sure about component signals above 480i/480p.
Anyway, follow: -> Factory Menu -> Device -> Chroma/D.Comb -> 10) Y-Delay = 6 (factory setting on my HS-51) You might try playing with this Y-Delay to see how it impacts your image error. Probably reducing the number might move the yellow shift back onto the dark solid.

On the Avia Y/C pattern, check for very dark edges on either side of those red vertical lines on the yellow back ground. In your case, it might be the right side if I recall correctly.
Again... This Y-Delay was not adjustable with a HDMI, VGA -RGB or VGA-YUV.
Ok, first the Avia YC Delay pattern. I can move the camera [a lot] closer.
http://www.brae.us/tmp/hs51/avia/OptSVGADSC0003.jpg
http://www.brae.us/tmp/hs51/avia/OptSVGADSC0004.jpg
While not terribly visible in the second picture (and not at all in the first), the transition off the red vertical stripes is a column of orange and then green, and finally yellow.

SOWK POSTED: "the component input wont take 1080i or 1080P and down convert to 720P"

Are you sure about this, SOWK? On page 52/68 of the Sony manual, it seems to indicate that it can take in 1080i. Anyone else have this experience!?

reaper

I have a Dish 811 HD receiver ouputting 1080i / 60hz over component to my HS51 and the picture is very good.

Hey Byte, I see what you mean and I am seeing something like what I previously observed only that its not green [enough] in that Indy movie, and it is only showing up on the YPbPr input, more so with standalone player in interlaced mode than progressive (Panasonic RP-56 with Faroudja FLI2100, I think). But, I see what you are telling me is the Y/C delay.

In that scene its not as strong nor as green. Maybe it was the material. I created a pattern with a similar coloration with black objects and bare, like in the Indy move, caught them--but not at viewing distances. I'll have to chalk up what I originally observed as a material-condition and not the display (thankfully).

BTW, its not easy playing with two projectors at almost the same time. :)

Oh yeah, I should mention that I can definitely tell a difference on this particular DVD between 480i/480P in the color and detail processing. I think the Faroudja is doing a better job against an uncalibrated HS51 as the colors seem to be running damn strong and coarse processing of fine detail.

WHO HAS 1080P to start with??? LOL. [EDIT: hd scaler does]By the time we got to 1080p, guess what. we''ll see ton of posts complaining their high end cables doesn't work on 1080p without sparkies.

Component take 1080i anytime, deinterace to 720p is comparable to hdmi 1080i. One can't tell the differences without proper calibration equipmemt.
Please take note, i am using comcast moto 6412 as hd 1080i source.

it fills the 16:9 perfectly(no blanking issue like 720p) but i didn't notice a very slight overscan till i watch 24. The Logo "FOX", letter X is slightly crop on the sides. Probably about 2-3 pixels(just the edge), only on the very corners. I believe this has been mentioned probably from the review or here. Personal opinion? this is very minor. I have no issue with this.

Back to Panny 500 i used to have, 1080i signal doesn't fill the screen, it got black bars on top and bottom about 5-8 pixels.

Originally posted by reaper
SOWK POSTED: "the component input wont take 1080i or 1080P and down convert to 720P"

Are you sure about this, SOWK? On page 52/68 of the Sony manual, it seems to indicate that it can take in 1080i. Anyone else have this experience!?

reaper

Not the Sony the DVDO HD+

Originally posted by zeroendless
WHO HAS 1080P to start with??? LOL. By the time we got to 1080p, guess what. we''ll see ton of posts complaining their high end cables doesn't work on 1080p without sparkies.


I have 1080P. :) Laptop WM HD, DIVX HD, and some HD moveis on the computer some in 1080P

I have 1080P. Laptop WM HD, DIVX HD, and some HD moveis on the computer some in 1080P

But remind me what resolution you set on your VGA out? 720p right? Then your Videocard is coverting all materials to 720p for your display.......

we can't even get 1080i right over HTPC not to mention 1080p.

Originally posted by zeroendless
But remind me what resolution you set on your VGA out? 720p right? Then your Videocard is coverting all materials to 720p for your display.......

we can't even get 1080i right over HTPC not to mention 1080p.

1080P is 1920X1080 on the VGA output, the Sony will only display it in 4X3 because of the Sony limitations, not my sorce material or my laptop!

Set your resolution to that.

Im not concerned with 1080P for the Sony, I said the DVDO is not future ready, not Sony Ready! HEHE

I think the DVDO HD+ should accept a 1080P signal and down convert to 720P, but it doesn't.

My Laptop has a 1920X1200 display, and is True HD.


But your right, when I go out to the Sony it is 1280X720!

sorry, i been tho whole night with PS setting tried to get 1080i resolved, 1080p is out of question. Not possible for my set up. Apparently not yours too....

if you have hd+, can you set to 1080p out to sony? what sony sees it?

Enlighten me, who get 1080p over HTPC to 'TV display' with consumer video card. PC monitor or you laptor is another story, don't get confused with the topic here. we are not interested with PC monitor.

I posted a couple days ago about the HS51 vs the Z3 as an upgrade to my SE 1HD, and the more I'm reading (and re-reading) this thread the more I'm getting skeptical about the HS51.

If I'm understanding what others (like SOWK) are saying, in order to get a decent picture out of the Sony I need to a) replace my decent Panny CP72 with a $250 DVD player with HDMI out and 2) buy a $250 HMDI->VGA cable to run to the PJ.

Suddenly the premium over the Z3 went from around $800 to $1300. Is there anyone out there running component cables to their HS51 and happy with the picture? I don't mind zooming in a skooch to overcome the 'blanketing', but will I get a decent picture? Or is the only road to nirvana paved with HDMI and VGA converters?

Thanks in advance folks.

Kendenton, I think reading these posts you'd sometimes be hard pushed to find a positive comment. :) I think there's alot of perfectionists out here and some dodgy HS51's to boot, ie with misalighned panels. The HS51(50) is a superb projector, even out of the box with no calibration. What these guys are saying is to get the absolute best from it, you need a little investment. If you need to upgrade your DVD player, you could do alot worse than the Panasonic S97, which has HDMI, and is very cheap for what you get. I have tried the component out and wansn't happy with the Sony de-interlacer...but some reviews rate it very highly?!! So I got a Panny with Faroujda de-interlacing, and I think the picture quality, 1080i over HDMI, is stunning on even Standard definition DVD material. I can't wait for Blu-Ray!

BUT I'm am going SOWK's route too and getting a HDMI(via DVI-D) to VGA and going to use the Input A, since I was blown away with the clarity of the image when connected to my PC.

Hope that helps some.
:)

LimeLizzards - what about this overscan issue? Is this a major thing, or are we talking a couple of pixels? Thanks!

Originally posted by zeroendless
sorry, i been tho whole night with PS setting tried to get 1080i resolved, 1080p is out of question. Not possible for my set up. Apparently not yours too....

if you have hd+, can you set to 1080p out to sony? what sony sees it?

Enlighten me, who get 1080p over HTPC to 'TV display' with consumer video card. PC monitor or you laptor is another story, don't get confused with the topic here. we are not interested with PC monitor.


Whit the HD+ what output do you want to know what whould happen with a 1080P?

VGA, or DVI?

Originally posted by kendenton
LimeLizzards - what about this overscan issue? Is this a major thing, or are we talking a couple of pixels? Thanks!

its nothing major, couple pixels!

SOWK - thanks (unless you were being sarcastic, of course) :-)

no I was not being sarcastic. The image is fine, but read my review, its better if you can afford the converters!

SOWK - thanks for the clarification. I don't mind phasing in upgrades, so long as the component feed from my current player won't look awful in the time being. When the time comes, is there any benefit going from component to HDMI (just a new player), or only if you go to DVI/VGA cable (player plus adapter)?

If there is any benefit from componet to HDMI it will be small, but from the adaptor DVI to VGA, the difference is huge!

I'll phase in vga as well eventually. But was wondering with my set up I will either do

A. Have a long 15 ft vga cable and a short dvi cable with the converter hooked up to power.

or

B. have a short 1 ft vga cable or so and a 15 ft dvi cable but without the power hooked up to the converter.

SWOK......when you run your HS50 from your HTPC direct VGA input, vs the DVI to VGA conversion box is there any PQ differences you can comment about?

Thanks

Whit the HD+ what output do you want to know what whould happen with a 1080P?


Take whatever source your hd+ capable to upscale 1080P, i just want to see how sony sees it.... blanking 720p i would assume

Last time i heard only lumagn able to do it right with 1080/24 to Qualia....

Originally posted by Highjinx
SWOK......when you run your HS50 from your HTPC direct VGA input, vs the DVI to VGA conversion box is there any PQ differences you can comment about?

Thanks

Well, no not really, The Inic Bravo D2 is a reference quality DVD player, so it looks great, actually a little better then the HTPC counter part. The bravo D2 has just a hint more color by default, but nothing tweaking the HTPC could't fix, the Image is as sharp as the FFDshow tweak for HTPC's. If you dont know what I'm talking about I'll send you a link!

Originally posted by ay221
I'll phase in vga as well eventually. But was wondering with my set up I will either do

A. Have a long 15 ft vga cable and a short dvi cable with the converter hooked up to power.

or

B. have a short 1 ft vga cable or so and a 15 ft dvi cable but without the power hooked up to the converter.


For Pure PQ otption B in therory would be better! But Not all future devices may support DVD-I - the one with power!

Originally posted by zeroendless
Take whatever source your hd+ capable to upscale 1080P, i just want to see how sony sees it.... blanking 720p i would assume

Last time i heard only lumagn able to do it right with 1080/24 to Qualia....


I dont own one, but to find out, set you HTPC to 1920X1080 60hz and select Video GBR mode on Input A, that would answer your ?'s!

Well, no not really, The Inic Bravo D2 is a reference quality DVD player, so it looks great, actually a little better then the HTPC counter part. The bravo D2 has just a hint more color by default, but nothing tweaking the HTPC could't fix, the Image is as sharp as the FFDshow tweak for HTPC's. If you dont know what I'm talking about I'll send you a link!

I'm with you SWOK, what I was getting at was the conversion from DVI to VGA via the converter adding or detracting from the end result compaired to a direct VGA feed. I suppose a better way is to use the same video card that had both VGA and DVI outputs and convert the DVI to VGA using the converter and doing the comparison. Using the Bravo vs HTPC brings another set of variables.

Can someone refresh my memory as the reason(s) behind the external DVI-to-RGB effort? I forgot.

Bytehoven - thanks for that reassurance, but one question:

"if you are NOT using Studio/Video RGB levels" - what does that mean?

Ken

Byte, how does one insure that one's source is using Studio/Video RGB levels? Can I automatically assume a STB or DVD player is? I also wonder why Studio/Video RGB levels cannot be sent from a PC, like with Microsoft XP MCE, or some 3rd party media playback solution.

kendenton
Yes it's an issue but one that is easily solved by not passing in 720p (over HDMI), ie use 1080i instead. I could see no visible difference between the two, except one has overscan the other doesn't! Let's hope it gets fixed all the same :)

Originally posted by TheFerret
Byte, how does one insure that one's source is using Studio/Video RGB levels? Can I automatically assume a STB or DVD player is? I also wonder why Studio/Video RGB levels cannot be sent from a PC, like with Microsoft XP MCE, or some 3rd party media playback solution.


Im not going to fight you byte, but you are also the one who stated that the HS51 had a larger LCD then 1280X720?

Plus you are comfusing people with the Stuido rgb levels, and no it still doesn't look anything like the 720P input A. The Bravo allows me to output studio levels! BTY 720P in hdmi is still processed, and your test your using if flawed, as the Sony adds edge enhancements to your test patern making it artificially look sharper. May enhance a static image, but runes a moving picture. Go get a fast pace movie, and tell me if its easyer to follow the action with the DVDO in HDMI, or a HTPC. Plug in a direct HTPC, and tell me your movies dont look better then they do on HDMI 720 Studio levels DVDO HD+.


Also you don't know if DVDO's VGA output is perfect! And No the HDMI in 720 P can not be pixel Perfect. The Panel is only 1280X720, and needs to fill the LCD's to be pixel perfect. If you see the boarder, that means it not using the full LCD panel, and is only downscaling the image to fit that window.

Its like taking a 15" lcd computer monitor, that has 1024X768 native, and lowering the res to 800X600, The image is scaled, and still looks great, but not 1:1 pixel perfect!

I noticed on my NVidia card it does have controls for brightness and contrast for the digital (DVI) output, but unfortunately, this is a slider ranging from -100% to +100%, which ain't all that intuitive. :)

I was wondering more along those lines of Windows XP Media Center Edition that supposedly used VMRL (os something along those line), but wondered if those M$ programmers realized the difference, and the existence, of Video vs. PC RGB levels. Maybe this is a question for some of the HTPCer in their forum ...

Originally posted by SOWK
Plus you are comfusing people with the Stuido rgb levels
How does giving people the facts confuse them?

Actually Byte, can the DVDO HD + accept a 720P and 1080I input thru Componet?

If so, can it be setup to 720P VGA out?

Bytehoven....this may have been answered before, however what % of pixels are cropped in both the vertical and horizontal planes. I suppose if SD is not too much of a problem from ones sitting distance, one could zoom out to put the cropping frame outside the visible area of the screen, as long as the cropping would move outside the viewing area of the screen propotionally, both in the horizontal and vertical planes.

Opps found the answer to that one!.

As in an earlier jschefdog's post.

I dont own one, but to find out, set you HTPC to 1920X1080 60hz and select Video GBR mode on Input A, that would answer your ?'s!

You kidding me right? or just casually making comments amd answers you probably don't know.

Nevermind.

Iscan HD does pass through hd (720p/1080i) but the hd '+' version is capable to process them....

Originally posted by zeroendless
You kidding me right? or just casually making comments amd answers you probably don't know.

Nevermind.

Yes I do know, reason... All video formats are in some form. 720P is 1280X720 60hz on a PC

There is no 1080I on a pc, only 1080P

And to get 1080P you set your output to 1920X1080 60hz.

This is a basic video mode, not some special made up res only for the future!

In a couple of years, when you buy a 1080P native display, and send the 1920X1080 60Hz of a pc signal to it, and it displays it in 1:1 pixel, you can then remember this post, and be like wow he was right!

I know what Im talking about, and only if the DVDO send out something other then 60hz it "may" be different!

Check here Bytehoven

http://www.dvdo.com/faq/faq_ishd_hdcp.html

Since there is a lot of discussion in this thread about the iScan HD+, I thought people might like to know that the February 2005 issue of Widescreen Review has a review of it. They gave it a very favorable review and discuss how some of the difference inputs are handled (DVI, HDCP, 1080i deinterlacing, etc).

Originally posted by Bytehoven
I would just add the cropped 720p image is a perfect 16:9 image, and evenly fills the 16:9 screen when zoomed out.

I am not satisfied with the 720p cropping, and I hope it is still possible to find a contact at Sony who will take up the challange and perhaps work toward a solution.
I've been watching from my Sony DVP-NS975V via HDMI like this. I set it to 720P output and adjusted the zoom to fill the screen. I could be happy with this setup, it provides a very good picture. I'm watching from 1.5x screen width and with a slight defocus don't notice the SDE. It only crops about 2.5% of the picture which is less than the overscan you get with 480i or 480p (about 5%). Granted you are losing some pixels, but the remaining image is good.

The biggest problem is if you use other inputs or resolutions, you have to keep manually readjusting the zoom and focus as you switch, and possibly the lens shift since they interact. If HDMI is the only connection you use then this wouldn't be an issue.

This black border issue is just a real shame and I also hope they fix it. Connecting an upscaling DVD player to HDMI at 720P provides a very good picture in spite of whatever processing the HS-51 is doing. I can see very little difference watching DVDs from my HTPC (using Input A) and this DVD player. You might see more of a difference with true HD sources at 720P, but I don't have any to test against the HTPC. If they could just get rid of the border and let it fill the screen, this combination would be a good option for people who don't want to mess with a HTPC or transcoders.

Yes I do know, reason... All video formats are in some form. 720P is 1280X720 60hz on a PC

There is no 1080I on a pc, only 1080P

And to get 1080P you set your output to 1920X1080 60hz.

This is a basic video mode, not some special made up res only for the future!

In a couple of years, when you buy a 1080P native display, and send the 1920X1080 60Hz of a pc signal to it, and it displays it in 1:1 pixel, you can then remember this post, and be like wow he was right!

I know what Im talking about, and only if the DVDO send out something other then 60hz it "may" be different!

So you meant regular pc resolutions doesn't have 1080I? and there no such thing as 1080i from video driver?

If your sources of PC is limited to Little HD laptor of yours, perhaps you never seen interace 1080i resolution on video card driver... BUT with all due respect, please don't make comments and say it out loud like you know. Many are reading your posts, there's only more questions and confusions. So u know, i read your extensive review but stop half-way, i think Bytehoven pointed out what's wrong with it.

By the way, do little of google on powerstrip and see it for yourself. Latest version come with hundreds of preset resolutions and half of them are interace. Don't make me post screenshot of 1080I from ATI driver. That's from 1080i from PS [EDIT, not made up from POWERSTRIP], it come with ATI cat starting 4.10 i believe and make available for 'regular' resolution NOT ONLY dongle adapter. I doubt you see that from your laptor mobility driver.

~Yes sir, in 2 years from now, i wish i got the juices to upgrade D5 1080p to prove me wrong.

Actually Byte, can the DVDO HD + accept a 720P and 1080I input thru Componet?

If so, can it be setup to 720P VGA out?

Byte, I did missed the 'Component'. I just pointed out the general differences between these two. My minds always go to much favorable LUmagen than process everything.

you are right, only DVI.

By the way, for those who's looking for 25' VGA cable..
I got mine from the 'egg' place. Cost less than $17 shipped. NO Ghosting.

A great buy compare to a $40 10' from gold series Belkin with serious ghosting that i used to have.

Houston, Benedictus in Germany calibrated a HS50 to 7000:1 @ D65 using a colorfilter. I talked to them this morning and they confirmed the number. Their unit is now in the hands of the Heimkinomagazin reviewers (oldest german HT-mag). You can phone them if you like, the number is on the online page. www.benedictus.de.. It was my impression that I wasn't the first to phone them about that. Did not ask if the unit was calibrated by Ekkehartt (cine4home). 7k:1 --- hard to believe but they say at D65...



Yes, actually I did tune that unit and yes, it actually had 7000:1 (I measured it several times to be sure :) ) . But this is a real exception. I had several HS50 here and normally, you can reach between 5000:1 and 6000:1 with matching filters.

About the filters: There is a huge deviation between units: One needed a strong red filter (around CC40), another an orange(!) filter and a couple even pink filters. The one of benedictus is a red filter with some pink tint. So far it seems that the units with bigger green push in their lamp-spectrum can reach the highest contrast ratios (kinda logical anyway).


Regards,
Ekkehart, Cine4Home

Originally posted by Cine4Home
Yes, actually I did tune that unit and yes, it actually had 7000:1 (I measured it several times to be sure :) ) . But this is a real exception. I had several HS50 here and normally, you can reach between 5000:1 and 6000:1 with matching filters.

About the filters: There is a huge deviation between units: One needed a strong red filter (around CC40), another an orange(!) filter and a couple even pink filters. The one of benedictus is a red filter with some pink tint. So far it seems that the units with bigger green push in their lamp-spectrum can reach the highest contrast ratios (kinda logical anyway).


Regards,
Ekkehart, Cine4Home

Ekkehart,
I seem to have a unit with this green push you are talking about. I currently have Colorfacts on a 30 day rental and have measured everything on my unit and the graphs do not look nearly like yours on the review. Anyway, could you please give me some indication on how you choose these filters and where you may purchase them. I really want to get this right before I have to let go of this calibration tool. Of course, if I were in Europe, I would just get you to do the calibration. Please feel free to PM me. Thanks so much.

Damn, 7000:1 that is just insane. Who could have thought a year back that a LCD projector would have real measured numbers in that spectrum. Or even a digital projector for that matter.

Event getting between 5000:1 and 6000:1 for normal numbers are astonishing, to say the least.

How many lumens have been measured for the hs-51 in these reviews?

Quote..."Yes, actually I did tune that unit and yes, it actually had 7000:1 (I measured it several times to be sure ) . But this is a real exception. I had several HS50 here and normally, you can reach between 5000:1 and 6000:1 with matching filters.

About the filters: There is a huge deviation between units: One needed a strong red filter (around CC40), another an orange(!) filter and a couple even pink filters. The one of benedictus is a red filter with some pink tint. So far it seems that the units with bigger green push in their lamp-spectrum can reach the highest contrast ratios (kinda logical anyway).


Regards,
Ekkehart, Cine4Home"

Ekkehart , if this is true , then what happens when we change out the original lamp for the first replacement ? A complete re-evaluation and possible re-selection of a new filter ?

Could you possibly try , if you haven't already , of swapping lamps on two HS51's(after calibration and filter selection) and then rechecking your readings ? This would separate lamp problems from optics and processing and would give some of us a little more faith in the filter approach .

Scott..............................:)

jschefdog: have you compared 1080i to 720p output over HDMI from your Sony DVDPNS975V to the HS51?

OK, Please help this very technically simple minded person... me.

I have the hs51 sitting in a box in the other room. Next to it, in a box, is a new sony ns975 dvd player. In another box, is my 100 inch diagonal Carada Brilliant White screen. Next week, I will be setting them all up in a newly painted room (10 feet wide by 21 feet long) which will be used for my home theater. Eventually, I will ceiling mount the sony, but for now, it will sit on a cabinet. I will be using the hs51 exclusively for dvd projection with the new sony dvd player.

Here's my question to all of you enjoying the hs51 with dvd's. What connection and set up is getting the best results with dvd's?

Thanks,

Larry

Originally posted by larsil

Here's my question to all of you enjoying the hs51 with dvd's. What connection and set up is getting the best results with dvd's?


For the best image quality you would want to setup your setup like this.

1. 720P HDMI out
2. HDMI to DVI Adaptor $30.00
3. DVI-D to VGA Converter $275.00
4. Input A/computer mode on the Sony VPL-HS51

This would allow you to get the absolute most from your dvd's, and future products as well, New game consoles, HD-DVD players. HDTuners.

You will be amaized at the Pitcure on screen!

LARSIL,

I have the same DVD player with the HS51. To my eyes 720P looks better than 1080i. However the blanking forced me to utilize 1080i. I have tried both component and HDMI (cables from bluejeanscable.com) and could not tell any significant difference from HDMI at 1080i and component at 1080i.

Sowk,

So, do you intend to only use the vga port on your HS51? How do you plan to connect everything to your HS51 this way? Do you intend to buy an HDMI switcher and hope that all the new components/consoles will have HDMI out? What do you expect to pay for your HDMI switcher if that's your intended route? What if you have a PC in your setup? Do you hope to get HDMI out of it as well? What about older components such as the ps2 and xbox? How would you connect them?

reaper

About the unit ot unit variation
Why do different units produce different spectrums?
To me I will guess there is variation in how the beam splitting optics work between units. Shouldn´t lamps be pretty uniform between units?

What menu option shows the hours of usage? Or is it in the service menu?

Originally posted by reaper
Sowk,

So, do you intend to only use the vga port on your HS51? How do you plan to connect everything to your HS51 this way? Do you intend to buy an HDMI switcher and hope that all the new components/consoles will have HDMI out? What do you expect to pay for your HDMI switcher if that's your intended route? What if you have a PC in your setup? Do you hope to get HDMI out of it as well? What about older components such as the ps2 and xbox? How would you connect them?

reaper

Reaper hats off to you! Yes this is a big problem. As of right now I am switching the VGA cable form one product to the other. It takes like 3 min to do, everytime I switch devices, but for now its worth it. I don't want to spend $400, on a DVI or HDMI switcher. I has a solution to current systems, aka gamecube, x-box, ps2 but it would cost also about $400.00

I for one am living with out a perfect image for my X-box 480P and 1080i titles, But for 720P im gravy. I have the X-box VGA adaptor!. for 720P games I choose Computer mode, for 480P and 1080I I have to choose Video gbr.

So you can do it all, but woulh cost like an extra $1300.00 to do so.

But I am still extremly happy with my DVI to VGA converter purchase for $300.00

Now I can watch a movie (because it's perfect), and not just sit there and keep saying I know that it could look better!

Originally posted by WynsWrld98
jschefdog: have you compared 1080i to 720p output over HDMI from your Sony DVDPNS975V to the HS51?
I have compared compared 1080i to 720p by watching the Video Essentials Montage and some movie scenes on both. The difference is subtle at best, but I prefer 720P. It is difficult to explain why, but the image looks slightly more film like and less digital at 720P. One instance where I did see a noticable difference was scrolling white credits on a black background. They looked much smoother with 720P.

But the 1080i image is also very good, better than I would have expected considering the HS-51 has do a lot more processing to it. I could be happy with it. The color with this combination is very good, reguardless of which resolution you pick.

Originally posted by ay221
What menu option shows the hours of usage? Or is it in the service menu?

1. Click on MENU using the remote...
2. Scroll down to INFORMATION

Bulb hours is displayed.

BTW, I am on my 2nd HS51 and this one already has over 250 hours usage!

Originally posted by larsil
I have the hs51 sitting in a box in the other room. Next to it, in a box, is a new sony ns975 dvd player.

Here's my question to all of you enjoying the hs51 with dvd's. What connection and set up is getting the best results with dvd's?
I have the same combination. I would recommend going with the HDMI connection because it required very little tweaking to get good color. Color saturation and hue of red, green and blue are all almost dead on with the default HS-51 settings of 50. Make sure you use the Standard mode on the 975 unless you want to try tweaking the custom mode. Also HDMI should in theory should be better because it's all digital, although as Kevin noted it may be difficult to see the difference in practice.

With HDMI you can try switching between 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i on the 975 to see which you like best. As I said in the above posts, I think 720p looks best, but if you use it you will loose about 2.5% of the pixels around the edges to the black borders. But if this is your only connection you can zoom it in to fill the screen and just leave it.

I don't think you will be dissappointed with this combo, it produces a very good picture.

Originally posted by gdemott
1. Click on MENU using the remote...
2. Scroll down to INFORMATION

Bulb hours is displayed.
Also, if you turn on the Service or Factory Mode first (see the tweaks thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4862442#post4862442)), the Information menu will display additional "bulb hours" related information, plus some other info not seen in User Mode.

Hi ay221 !

I posted a message on 30/12 with details I got from CHIEF on their dedicated mounting solution for the VPL-HS50/51 ...

I read that you actually have your Chief mount now, did you get hold of the RPA-102 ?

As it still is not detailed on the www.chiefmfg.com site, and I really want to order it now, I wondered if you could give me any details on how it looks like ? maybe you have a pdf or link with technical specs or drawings ?

Any info would be useful

For now, I imagine that it will be similar to the RPA-2131 (the one that was used for the VPL-HS20)

Many thanks for your reply,

David ,-)

Yes I am using the RPA-102. I have it installed and works nicely. It comes in two parts. The first part is the universal top: http://www.chiefmfg.com/product_dis...sp?typ=ps&id=30
The part that has the place for the pipe insert is the part that screws in flushed to the ceiling with 4 screws. I used 90lb screw anchors and seems to hold niecely.

The second part is the RPA-102, it is a flat piece of metal, and has 4 screws facing up ready to be connected to the universal piece. Its design shape won't block access to the lamp panel of the projector. To install this plate you place 3 spacers over the mount holes of the projector, place in the rpa-102 plate, then secure with the provided screws(or security screws) and washers. You then connect the two parts using the thumb screws.

I included a pdf file I scanned of the RPA-102 portion of the instructions.

Hi Guys, for those of you who have been following the posts regarding the dvi-vga adaptor, namely from digital connections, I have a warning for HS`50` owners. Due to the signal frequency...guess what! BIG black borders!!!! Nooooooo.......Yep it's true. For us PAL users it doesn't solve the problem, and whilst the picture is subtly brighter, and subtly more saturated, I'm not convinced that $300 is worth it, definately not when you add the fact that you still get the borders. If your dvd player is able to convert to NTSC, my panny s97 does it, then you can output that, lose the black borders, but you also lose 100 lines of information going from PAL to NTSC! Not the general idea when moving up to Hi-Def.
One strange thing I noticed when swapping between outputs on the DVD player was that each mode, 576p,720p,1080i was aligned differently, ie 576p had the right chopped off, but you could see quite a few extra pixels to the left, 720p was aligned to the left and you could see quite a few extra pixels to the right, 1080i seemed to be bang in the middle of the two? I'm guessing it's the sony? But stranger still was that 720p appeared not to be cropped at all...but scaled down? Eek! I'm going to see if I can borrow a digital camera, and take some pics. I found a really nice example of the HS50's scaling being a bit nasty too. Never did like it :)
Anywayz, hope that's a help to someone.

LimeLizzards, is the HDMI 720p directly from the S97 also scaled down or does it "just" have the black borders?

Morten

Some DVD Transfers don't fill the whole frame so you will have as slightly tatty looking border, if it was scaling it down it would appear sharp edged (maybe). Also people have proven 1:1 pixel mapping on VGA so it isn't scaled.

LimeLizzards, in your opinion would you purchase an HS51 from the US with it's ethernet connection and the chance to change gamma and maybe upgrade firmware or go for the UK version again?

Thanks
Scott

Hi all, I was just browing a website in the Tri-State area and they have the HS51 listed as Native WXGA 1386 x 788 Resolution. Is this true?


Brian

is the HDMI 720p directly from the S97 also scaled down or does it "just" have the black borders?

I can't remember, I was plugging and unplugging for half the night. When I get a minute I'll take some pics and write down exactly what they are. After all if could be the panny too?

Also people have proven 1:1 pixel mapping on VGA so it isn't scaled.

They have, but not from HDMI 720p through a VGA adaptor at 50Hz, someone please correct me if I am wrong on that. I've tried it using a computer, at 60Hz, and it's great, no border or anything but that's not what I was doing here.

in your opinion would you purchase an HS51 from the US with it's Ethernet connection and the chance to change gamma and maybe upgrade firmware or go for the UK version again?

It does seem a little odd that our version is missing those tings off the hs51, but I personally wouldn't buy abroad for that sort of thing. I don't mind small items, £100 or so, but not thousands.

Originally posted by LimeLizzards
Hi Guys, for those of you who have been following the posts regarding the dvi-vga adaptor, namely from digital connections, I have a warning for HS`50` owners. Due to the signal frequency...guess what! BIG black borders!!!!
I saw the same thing when I tried a 1280x720@50Hz Powerstrip setting on my HTPC connected to Input A. The image looked very similar to 720P to HDMI, complete with the pixel averaging and black borders. If I moved the frequency about 1Hz up or down, the picture would go blank for a second, then come back looking like other resolutions on Input A with no black borders. If I moved back to 50Hz, it would go blank and come back to the black borders. It seemed that exactly 50Hz was kicking in the same processing that affect HDMI and Component at 720P. I don't know anything about the adapter you are using, but if you can adjust the frequency you might try this.

However, a couple of people in either this thread or the tweak thread reported that they didn't see this effect feeding 720P@50Hz to Input A, so I'm not sure it affects everyone. My HS-51 came from the first batch shipped by SonyStlye back in late November, so it is possible this is something they fixed.

Originally posted by zooxmusic
Hi all, I was just browing a website in the Tri-State area and they have the HS51 listed as Native WXGA 1386 x 788 Resolution. Is this true?
Not true. Several people here have verified that it displays exactly 1280x720 pixels. They probably copied the info from the HS20 or HS10 data, which I believe were that resolution. There was some discussion indicating that the HS-51 may be using a higher resolution LCD panel that is masked, but I don't think anyone has verified it. Either way it only displays 1280x720.

There has been some speculation that Panasonic achieves their 'smoothscreen' technology by adjusting the panel alignment. There have also been differing reports on the HS51 with respect to SDE and panel alignments. I am wondering if the HS51's that have been noted to have very visible SDE are units that have very well aligned LCD panels and thus very defined 'lines' between pixels? On the flip side, are units with very slight panel misalignment benefiting from 'smoothscreen' effect with respect to SDE? Thoughts?

Hey Bytehoven, I was thinking of taking a try at one of these. What's a matter?

Originally posted by guitarman
Hey Bytehoven, I was thinking of taking a try at one of these. What's a matter? Tom, wasn't it you knocking the dynamic iris in the Sony a few months back!?!

Hmm, guess who's b!tch you are now!!! :D :p :cool:

And pick the cigar your mouth dropped up off the floor. :eek:

My hat is off to you Bytehoven! As an engineer specializing in firmware development (mostly military networking equipment), my experience is that there are often so many levels of beauracracy between engineers and customers that often times the engineers never hear about these problems. As expected, the amount of beauracracy is exponentially proportional to the size of the company. Also, sometimes the best way forward for a business isn't the best way forward for its customers. It all comes down to numbers/$.

I'm sure Sony had a large team dedicated to developing, integrating and qualifying these projectors. Unfortunately, I imagine that with consumer electronics, once a product is out, a fraction of the original development resources are available for fixes, as the majority of the team will be moving on to the next model. Ideally the next model is based on the HS50/51 and a patch will still be forthcoming. To these people at Sony, some of whom I'd bet money are reading this stuff, Hi :)! We love this projector, but you could go down in AVS folklore as giving us one of the best bang/$ PJ's ever available if you could only address some of the issues you see mentioned here.

I built a large all terrain vehicle portal, ATV Frontier (http://atvfrontier.com) and we have manufacturer's engineers and other staff that visit our forums regularly as a resource. They aren't allowed to talk to us directly due to legal and other business issues (engineers are usually too honest ;)) but its nice to know that they do see the posts and often times come up with a fix that is sometimes available under warranty. Hopefuly there's a forum as good as AVS in Japan that the Sony engineers can use.

I imagine that if you actually do manage to breakthrough to engineers, as you did with NEC, that progress would be fairly rapid. So Byte and others, keep up the great work documenting the issues and contacting Sony and you never know....

Hear! hear! Bytehoven...........more power to you!. After all, you did buy a projector that Sony claims to be a 1280 x 720 capable unit, not a 1280 x 720 unit via all inputs, except HDMI!.:)

Originally posted by LimeLizzards
Hi Guys, for those of you who have been following the posts regarding the dvi-vga adaptor, namely from digital connections, I have a warning for HS`50` owners. Due to the signal frequency...guess what! BIG black borders!!!! Nooooooo.......Yep it's true. For us PAL users it doesn't solve the problem, and whilst the picture is subtly brighter, and subtly more saturated, I'm not convinced that $300 is worth it, definately not when you add the fact that you still get the borders. If your dvd player is able to convert to NTSC, my panny s97 does it, then you can output that, lose the black borders, but you also lose 100 lines of information going from PAL to NTSC! Not the general idea when moving up to Hi-Def.
One strange thing I noticed when swapping between outputs on the DVD player was that each mode, 576p,720p,1080i was aligned differently, ie 576p had the right chopped off, but you could see quite a few extra pixels to the left, 720p was aligned to the left and you could see quite a few extra pixels to the right, 1080i seemed to be bang in the middle of the two? I'm guessing it's the sony? But stranger still was that 720p appeared not to be cropped at all...but scaled down? Eek! I'm going to see if I can borrow a digital camera, and take some pics. I found a really nice example of the HS50's scaling being a bit nasty too. Never did like it :)
Anywayz, hope that's a help to someone.

I was just about to have one of these DVI-VGA converters dispatched to me here in Oz , but after your comments I am loathe to proceed now.
Does SOWK agree with your findings?

Do we think the HS-50/51 firmware can be DIY flashed/upgraded .. or that this would require the unit to be sent back to Sony?

If it is the latter, and that they are admitting there is a problem, the would loose a lot of time & money fixing under warranty. My guess is they are unlikely to want to send out a 'confused' message. Tell everyone that there is a 'firmware fix', means that customers may not buy the projector unless its on the latest revision - which could cause them a bit of headache.

Has Sony Ever released a firmware fix for any of its PJs?

Previous projector: 10HT.
New projector: HS50 - out of the box.
Connections: RGB/Component
Altitude: Low
Screen: 118" Dalite hi power
Distance to screen: 140"

Switched the machine on. I had to check if it was actually on - amazing.
(If you are using Dalite high power, you can position the PJ behind you to get a much brighter image without any annoying sounds)

I watched Return of the King. The colours were so real. When perfectly focused. - you can see the individual pixels. To get a 10HT picture, defocusing slightly. After about 2 hours ... I actually preffered the sharp picture. Especially with a DVD with so much detail.

The picture is only just bright enough on 118" screen. Some detail is too dark to make out - but that isn't causing me any lost sleep - I'm too mesmerized by the picture.

Interestingly, I have not seen this PJ mentioned in any of the UK press. The hi-fi mags are still 'pushing' 4000 GBP PJs the are no-where near this PJs spec.

Tweaks: I'm hoping that the someone can produce a test patten / method that can help me determine what kind of filter I need to optimize the CR. Would a filter also enable me to make the overall picture brighter with the same CR?

Cheers,
Antony

Antony, magazines usually set up content for their rags 2-4 in advance. This product didn't make an entry until late December in the USA (don't know about the Kingdom), but I would imagine it may be another month before they formally treat this product.

Byte and others. I just sent my HS51 back to Sonystyle for a full refund. My reason for returning is that I don't have a single room capable of accomodating a projector screen. The HDMI problem was a minor annoyance. However when I sent it back I made sure to clearly put that the reason for return was that 720p signal via HDMI was not displayed properly with masking on the edges. I said that I spoke with customer support several times to no avail and that the blanking is unacceptable, thus my return. Hopefully everyone else's complaints along with mine will add up to something. Was a nice rental...

According to the WSR review, the DTC100 does not work properly with the HS51:

"Input A, set to Video GBR, did not operate properly with the very common RCA DTC-100 HD/DirecTV receiver. When receiving HD programs, the HD output (1080i RGBHV) caused the HS51 to deliver a double image. On SD programs, the upconverted HD output (540p RGBHV) was displayed properly. The DTC-100 image was stable when Input A was set to Computer, but this could not be used because the projector displayed a 4:3 (1.33:1) image, and aspect ratio choices were locked out. Sony is aware of this problem, and hopefully, it will be corrected on production units."

They were hoping this issue would be addressed for production. Can anyone confirm whether these units work together yet? I ask because I acquired a DTC100 last night and am wondering if I can use it with my projector.

reaper

Originally posted by masterpasser
I was just about to have one of these DVI-VGA converters dispatched to me here in Oz , but after your comments I am loathe to proceed now.
Does SOWK agree with your findings?

Hello, well he may have a point. But I live in the US, and everything is 60hz, I have not tryed anything in 50hz. So if in PAL land it doesnt work, it may not. But if you has NTSC standards (60hz) it will work like a dream.
I still today cant stop talking about how flippin amazing my pic looks!

Originally posted by reaper
According to the WSR review, the DTC100 does not work properly with the HS51:

"Input A, set to Video GBR, did not operate properly with the very common RCA DTC-100 HD/DirecTV receiver. When receiving HD programs, the HD output (1080i RGBHV) caused the HS51 to deliver a double image. On SD programs, the upconverted HD output (540p RGBHV) was displayed properly. The DTC-100 image was stable when Input A was set to Computer, but this could not be used because the projector displayed a 4:3 (1.33:1) image, and aspect ratio choices were locked out. Sony is aware of this problem, and hopefully, it will be corrected on production units."

They were hoping this issue would be addressed for production. Can anyone confirm whether these units work together yet? I ask because I acquired a DTC100 last night and am wondering if I can use it with my projector.

reaper

Unfortunatly they did not give aspect ratio adj for the computer mode, and I am not sure about the Video GBR mode. But there is a good chance Sony didnt do anything at all! Why fix something like that if they cant fix the 720P blankting issue

Originally posted by reaper
According to the WSR review, the DTC100 does not work properly with the HS51:

"Input A, set to Video GBR, did not operate properly with the very common RCA DTC-100 HD/DirecTV receiver. When receiving HD programs, the HD output (1080i RGBHV) caused the HS51 to deliver a double image. On SD programs, the upconverted HD output (540p RGBHV) was displayed properly. The DTC-100 image was stable when Input A was set to Computer, but this could not be used because the projector displayed a 4:3 (1.33:1) image, and aspect ratio choices were locked out. Sony is aware of this problem, and hopefully, it will be corrected on production units."

They were hoping this issue would be addressed for production. Can anyone confirm whether these units work together yet? I ask because I acquired a DTC100 last night and am wondering if I can use it with my projector.

reaper

This does not answer your question however for others that are curious about DirectvHD Receiver compatability I can confirm the following:

Hughes Directv HD receiver model (HR10-250) with Tivo

Works perfect via HDMI to HDMI using all modes 1080i, 720p, 480i, 480p

My prefered setup however is....
HughesDirectv output at 1080i HDMI --> iScanHD+ output VGA RGB colorspace --> HS51 InputA Computer Mode

I can easliy switch between HDMI to HDMI and HDMI to InputA Computer mode and the difference is HUGE. Not subtle but huge. The higher the input source (1080i) hdmi the greater the difference.

Anyone located in the New York Metropolitan area is welcome to contact me and I will arange a demo.

Gary

One other thing about Directv HD compatability....

I forgot to mention that the Samsung TS360 HD receiver is not compatible DVI -HDMI when connected to VPL-HS51.

The signal will drop every so often. I am on my 2nd VPL-HS51 and have multiple TS360 receivers in my home. I never could determine whether the problem was with the Sony HDMI interface or the Samsung DVI but regardless it does not work.


response from SONY Technician.........
I would try to use a different HDMI source to test the HDMI connection on the projector.

This unit appears to be having packet loss due to non-conformity between tuner manufactures and signal broadcasters and the youth of the industry. When talking to certain HD Tuners through the HDMI connection, the effect is that the picture will disappear and "HDMI" will appear in the upper edge of the screen then picture will come back, this will repeat every 10 min or up to an hour. There is no fix for this problem at this time.

I am confused. I presume gdemott is sending 16x9 signals to the VGA port on the HS51. I further presume he is not watching 16x9 content in a 4:3 box. He states that he uses computer mode. WSR seems to indicate that setting the input A (VGA port) to computer mode cause the device to assume the picture is 4:3. So, why would the HS51 display an image 4:3 when getting a vga signal from a DTC100 and configured to computer mode. But not when all things are the same except the source is this iScan thingy? What's the difference?

reaper

Originally posted by reaper
I am confused. I presume gdemott is sending 16x9 signals to the VGA port on the HS51. I further presume he is not watching 16x9 content in a 4:3 box. He states that he uses computer mode. WSR seems to indicate that setting the input A (VGA port) to computer mode cause the device to assume the picture is 4:3. So, why would the HS51 display an image 4:3 when getting a vga signal from a DTC100 and configured to computer mode. But not when all things are the same except the source is this iScan thingy? What's the difference?

reaper

I am not watching 16:9 in a 4:3 box.

I forgot to mention I have set the iScanHD+ to output 720p(1280x720).

Perhaps the DTC100 is not set to output 16:9 and instead set to 4:3?

Originally posted by gdemott

My prefered setup however is....
HughesDirectv output at 1080i HDMI --> iScanHD+ output VGA RGB colorspace --> HS51 InputA Computer Mode

I

How are you able to put a HD HDMI signal into the iScan and output through VGA? My impression was HDCP would prevent this. I'd like to do the same thing with my Comcast box, but I didn't think it was possible.

Originally posted by Justins123
How are you able to put a HD HDMI signal into the iScan and output through VGA? My impression was HDCP would prevent this. I'd like to do the same thing with my Comcast box, but I didn't think it was possible.


Here's a repeat of one of my previous posts that answers your question....

For those of you with a iScanHD+ and a DirecTv HD Receiver/DVR (HR10-250).....
This may work with other HDCP sources!

I am not new to Projection TV and I'm currently on my 4th System. I now have what I consider to be the most impressive, drop dead gorgeous, absolutley jaw dropping picture I have ever seen on ANY Projection system.

My original connection was : HR10-250 -> iScanHD+(set to 720p output) > VPL-HS51 via HDMI

I decided to try the INPUTA - Computer Mode 720P hookup which produced absolutely great results from a Sony RDR-HX900 Dvd player but I quickly found out that when I switched the input source to DVI the iScanHD+ refused to output on the VGA port.

Well guess what? If you configure the iScanHD+ to HDCP OFF you can input a HDMI 1080i signal and OUTPUT to VGA. This works with the Hughes DirecTv Receiver with aweseome results.

Here's what happening:
iScanHD+ setting

DVDO manual
HDCP Mode OFF
HDCP is disabled at the iScan HD+'s DVI input. Some sources will turn off HDCP in this case the iScan HD+ will drive a non-HDCP DVI display or analog display.

So the Hughes will output HDMI output if it detects a non HDCP device.

My new configuration:

HR10-250 via 1080i HDMI -> iScanHD+ 720p -> INPUT A Computer

Awesome !

Gary

I'm not sure how to word this question, however I know someone will know what I'm trying to ask. How far from the ceiling should the bottom of the hs51 be if the top of my screen is x inches from the ceiling if I want to avoid vertical lens shift ? (Bottom of the hs51 refers to part closest to ceiling when mounted).

Thanks,
Dan

Originally posted by mintakaX
I'm not sure how to word this question, however I know someone will know what I'm trying to ask. How far from the ceiling should the bottom of the hs51 be if the top of my screen is x inches from the ceiling if I want to avoid vertical lens shift ? (Bottom of the hs51 refers to part closest to ceiling when mounted).
I think to "avoid vertical lens shift" the PJ lens would have to be inline with the center of the screen. From the manual it appears the vertical and horizontal lens shift goes equal distance above and below the centerline of the lens, so the "nuetral" position would be in line with the center of the lens. If you go to sonystyle.com you can download the PDF manual which provides info on mounting options. For practical purposes, I think having the center of the lens anywhere between the top and bottom of the screen would be fine. Mine is a few inches below the top and I don't see any issues related to lens shift. You might see issues if you go to the extremes of the lens shift.

Originally posted by TheFerret
Tom, wasn't it you knocking the dynamic iris in the Sony a few months back!?!

Hmm, guess who's b!tch you are now!!! :D :p :cool:

And pick the cigar your mouth dropped up off the floor. :eek:

It's just cheap and I wanted to test it. Yeah that was me ?ing the CR reality.

I'd just like to see overall in real time how the video looks with the H51 with different movies etc and how the contrast looks.

Bytehoven, I thought the guys at Sony said they would fix the cropping? Did something change?

Originally posted by jschefdog
I think to "avoid vertical lens shift" the PJ lens would have to be inline with the center of the screen. From the manual it appears the vertical and horizontal lens shift goes equal distance above and below the centerline of the lens, so the "nuetral" position would be in line with the center of the lens. If you go to sonystyle.com you can download the PDF manual which provides info on mounting options. For practical purposes, I think having the center of the lens anywhere between the top and bottom of the screen would be fine. Mine is a few inches below the top and I don't see any issues related to lens shift. You might see issues if you go to the extremes of the lens shift.

Thanks, the manual diagram is really confusing on this point. To me it looks like the center of the lens is in line with the top of the screen. Whats not clear in the diagram is exactly where the top of the screen is. Anyone know for sure ?

Regarding 1080i to 4x3 in computer mode. I can report than when I set my HIPIX HDTV card on my HTPC to 1080i output into Input A in computer mode on the HS51, I get a 4x3 window. Quickfix was to output 720p instead and then I get fullscreen 16x9.

Originally posted by RoninTech
My hat is off to you Bytehoven...

To these people at Sony, some of whom I'd bet money are reading this stuff, Hi :)! We love this projector, but you could go down in AVS folklore as giving us one of the best bang/$ PJ's ever available if you could only address some of the issues you see mentioned here.
I would also like to thank Bytehoven for taking up the gauntlet on this issue. I have been meaning to pester Sony support about the 720P blanking since it occurs when using their own upscaling DVD player at 720P, but have been too busy.

I also hope that someone with some influence at Sony is following this thread. I also love my HS-51. It produces an outstanding picture for the price. If they could just provide a pass-thru mode for 720P over Component and HDMI that did not blank any of the pixels, I would recommend it without reservation. This is the only problem with my HS-51 that really annoys me. Other issues are minor by comparison.

I have been reading through the bablefish translation of the www.cine4home.de review of the HS-51 and came across this comment about the 720P blanking.

This procedure appears to us absolutely inakzeptabel, since not only a part of the panels remains here unused, but also the picture becomes clearly smaller. Who operates thus both 576p and 720p sources, each mark must again adapt the dimension of picture area manually with the help of the zoom shot Rades on the canvas.

I couldn't have said it better myself :D. Even with a less than perfect translation the message is clear. The blanking is unacceptable. Maybe this will get Sony's attention. Cine4home is a popular and well respected review site.

They also say:
Also in the service/Factory menu of the VPL-HS50 there are no functions for the influence of the Overscans!

Another interesting item in their review is a picture of a Pixelworks chip. I don't remember seeing it mentioned anywhere else.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by jpmassey
For those with 51's and are ceiling mounting this projector, what are you using? Has anyone been able to get the Chief RPA-2131 to work? If so where did you find the best price?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> Finally got full technical info, drawings, dimensions, installation instructions from CHIEF (www.chiefmfg.com) for the dedicated mounting solution for the VPL-HS50/51. It is an implementation of the RPA-2131 (which we still know from the HS20) with a new Hanger Bracket called SLB-102. The full kit is called RPA-102 and all details will be on their website in the next few weeks. It can already be ordered though.

Details of the SLB-102 attached ! (sorry, full PDF on the RPA-102 too big to be posted here but you can find that on their site by doing search on RPA-2131, look for RPA-I.pdf)

David

Thanks also to ay221 for pointing this out (he has it already installed).

Hi all, I have a question and it kindof concerns SOWK's statements on the VGA input in computer mode. I am planning on using an HTPC purely for input to the pj (except maybe my xbox unless I can figure that one out). I am using an ATI Radeon 9800 pro and will always have the resolution set at 1024x768. I plan on using the Hauppauge 250 for my tv and all of my movies are stored on a file server. Will this ensure I don't have any of the upscaling problems?

Brian

I am using an ATI Radeon 9800 pro and will always have the resolution set at 1024x768.
Any reason why 1024x768? set vga in at 1280x720 from htpc, chose computer mode and click on APA ( if it doesn't already). You are all set.

I have just confirmed, a Motorola 6208 HDTV cable receiver produces 720p underscan masking on the DVI and component outputs.

480i, 480p and 1080i all format properly.


if you look closely, 1080i is slightly overscan but fill the screen without borders alright. Put on fox hd show, you see crop fox logo. But's this is very minor. I live 1080i any day with my 6412

hi zeroendless,
Thanks for the response, I actually don't have it set at 1024x720 I just thought that was native to the HS51. So I just figured that I would match it. I now have been reading about PowerStrip and DVDIdle to get past the HDCP and just need to start fiddleing with it. I actually haven't gotten my pj yet but it should be here by next week. I was just wondering what else I needed to buy to test it out.

Brian

Hmm, a replacement unit is waiting for me ... (actually, it was waiting for me yesterday but they forgot to call me)

Thanks for the response, I actually don't have it set at 1024x720 I just thought that was native to the HS51. So I just figured that I would match it. I now have been reading about PowerStrip and DVDIdle to get past the HDCP and just need to start fiddleing with it. I actually haven't gotten my pj yet but it should be here by next week. I was just wondering what else I needed to buy to test it out.


I must have missed something here, if your source is mainly HTPC, u don't have issue with HDCP and probably never will....Furthermore, latest ATI cat come with 720P that would get you 1:1 mapping to HS50/51 just fine. NO PS needed.

PS, using powerstrip and DVDIdle to get pass HDCP???? where you get that from?

zeroendless, I got that from HTPCNews.com. I am new to this so I am glad I have everything wrong. My htpc right to the hs51 with 1:1 mapping sounds perfect to me.

Brian

I've searched this thread, but can't find a definitive answer...I have a Peerless PJC-173 mount that I'm using with my Sony VPL-HS10. Will the same mount work for the HS51? In other words, is the mounting hole pattern on the HS10/HS20 the same as on the HS51?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've searched this thread, but can't find a definitive answer...I have a Peerless PJC-173 mount that I'm using with my Sony VPL-HS10. Will the same mount work for the HS51? In other words, is the mounting hole pattern on the HS10/HS20 the same as on the HS51?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Schwa : I can refer to my posting on the CHIEF RPA-102 / 2131 mount for the HS51 this morning ! No, you need a different Hanger Bracket plate with dedicated mounting holes for the HS51, in case of the CHIEF RPA Models, you can re-use the top of the mounting bracket of a HS20, but replace the mounting plate, in case for the HS51 you need just the 'SLB-102 Hanger bracket' (tech drawing was attached)

David

It is my belief that the only way to get Sony to even release a statement is to have a majority of owners ask for a refund or try to get their projector serviced. Currently Sony "has never heard of the problem". When they don't admit that there is an issue then they will never fix it. 2 or 3 people calling in or returning their units for blanking isn't going to produce results unless the company is customer service first. All I have to say about that is MemoryStick. SO everyone needs to call about this even if you like the VGA perfromance etc. Unfortunately Byte and a couple others are the only ones getting anywhere with this and they'll only get so far without a horde to back them up. I returned my HS51 with the specific reason that the projector's 720p output via HDMI was unacceptable. Alot of you don't have that option perhaps but when Sony has to dish money back out of their pocket to alot of people over a specific product, they'll notice.

Originally posted by Schwa
I've searched this thread, but can't find a definitive answer...I have a Peerless PJC-173 mount that I'm using with my Sony VPL-HS10. Will the same mount work for the HS51? In other words, is the mounting hole pattern on the HS10/HS20 the same as on the HS51?

The hole layout is the same on the hs51 as the hs10 EXCEPT the holes are rotated 180 degrees. On the hs51 the 2 holes are in the front and the single hole is in the back. Since for now I am reusing my homemade mount from my hs10, I just had to turn it around. If you can turn your mount 180 degrees and it will still work then you don't need a new mount :).

Originally posted by Bytehoven
B&H would not allow me to return my 2nd HS-51 due to the 720p issue, because I had put more than 2 hours on the lamp. That is the limit of their projector return policy. 2 Hour Max Run Time


I am not advocating anything here but it sure seems from the manual that RESET, LEFT ARROW, RIGHT ARROW, ENTER resets bulb hours!

The extended Service Menu keeps track of the previous bulb hours so the above sequence would need to be done more than once.

I was not aware that you could reset the previous bulb hours in the service menu? That is good information, thanks.

You know its things like this, why I wont ever buy things of this nature some sites and ebay! It only has 2 hours on it, when in reality it has 1500hrs.

Makes me sick.

Resetting the bulb hours will not get you much if the person knows how to access the service menu. From what I remember there are 3 hour counters: current bulb, previous bulb, and also something like chassis hours. The current bulb hours can be reset and the normal menu will reflect this. I'm not sure if the previous bulb hours can be reset to 0 but I can almost guarantee that the chassis hours cannot be reset. So anyone who knows how to access the service menu will be able to tell if the hours have been messed with. We have been dealing with this in the CRT world for a long time. You can reset the CRT hours but there is amost always a cumulative hour counter than cannot be reset.

FYI - to all who are interested in renting the HS51. I returned my projector to Sonystyle in the mail on Monday and they have already issued my refund. So no 6-8 week wait as they list in their return policy.

This is great news! Thanks for taking the lead on this issue and for keeping us up to date.

Originally posted by Bytehoven
He informed me there is a 720p fix almost ready for the HS-51. They are trying to determine if it is a fix owners will be able to do themselves or require a visit to a Sony service center. The fix involves a software update and a possible firmware mod.
Jackpot! I was a bit worried that this might be a limitation of the pixelworks chip. Now, regarding HS50's for us Canucks .... :). I imagine that the same group develops for the HS51 and HS50. Since we don't have an external serial, USB or Ethernet port a service center return would be required. Would it be possible to ask him if the same fix would apply to the HS50?

Kudos again Byte!

Holy MOLY! Awesome dude! I never would have believed it! Totally awesome!!

I would also like if you could ask them to put in a Aspect ratio setting for computer mode!

Or allow any input aka 480P, 1080I to just be scaled to 1280X720 in Computer mode, not video GBR!

My 480P and 1080I material using input a (computer mode) are set to 640X480, and 1024X768 respectivly, and in a smmoshed 4X3 aspect!

If you could do that, and it gets fixed, I will personally send you a thank you.

Byte....EXCELLENT! effort & result..................!

Indeed Byte... excellent effort. Thx.

Where you able to ask Sony about what is causing the problem (just out of curiosity)?

Originally posted by Bytehoven
I received a reply from the Sony executive I mentioned in an earlier post.

He was not aware of the problem but will be taking it to the product engineering group in San Diego.

;) Very good news and a very quick reply from the Sony contact.

More news to follow as it becomes available.

Nice work!

Since they are here in San Diego, tell them they can work on my hs51 and make it perfect :).

Originally posted by Carlton Bale
This is great news! Thanks for taking the lead on this issue and for keeping us up to date.

Hey, you're back. Still considering showing off your hs51 some day?

I just registered. After having read just about all I could find about the HS50/51 on this site for the past month, I couldn't believe what I was reading. This is amazing!

I think this just about settles it, hopefully I'll be enjoying the HS50 a month or two from now. Not throwing away the TV though, which...also happens to be a Sony :-)

In the meantime, for connecting my HTPC to the projector would you recommend a VGA cable or getting the ATI DVI to component adaptor? I am currently connecting it via DVI to HDMI, but the inability to see the buttons/bars at the top and bottom of my screen is really annoying.

Well, Component will be interpreted as Component to the HS51 and if you send a 720P Component signal guess what? I would try the VGA (RGBHV) and see how you like it. Its going to provide a cleaner, IMO, analog path than Component.

So if a fix is in the works for current owners, what about those like myself that are looking to get a new unit from a dealer, has the fix been done to current units? I wouldn’t want to get a new unit that has to be sent to service for an update a month after I purchased it.

VGA it is then. I was going to order one from pccables.com. They have a 25ft SVGA cable for under $13...has anyone tried these out and are they good quality?

http://www.pccables.com/cgi-bin/orders6.cgi?action=Showitem&id=ID20026&partno=00647&search=MONITOR&rsite=&rcode=

Thanks!

HTPC users.

If you are HTPC for more than just movie, for instance..gaming, browser and all other PC usage. You gonna need VGA with 720p and NO others ( at least for now).. It's 1:1 mapping without border / masking issues and the Auto pixel adjustment will get you crystal and shape for PC usage.

On the other hands, despite the HDMI 720p issues, HDMI 720p is being processed (video mode i assume and no other chioce for now) The text is burring and give you headache just looking at it but movie wise, it's good.

If sony fixes masking issue but let alone hdmi 720p process as it's. It's still no good for PC usage........ They need to leave 720p HDMI in..PASS THO.

------------------
Bchav, i got mine 25' footer from newegg. They are about the same price without ghosting and Same quality as 10' that i have.

Originally posted by Bchav
VGA it is then. I was going to order one from pccables.com. They have a 25ft SVGA cable for under $13...has anyone tried these out and are they good quality?

http://www.pccables.com/cgi-bin/orders6.cgi?action=Showitem&id=ID20026&partno=00647&search=MONITOR&rsite=&rcode=

Thanks!

I've purchased many cables from them and had no problems with any of them.

More than the 720p masking issue, I'm curious to see how Sony deals with the widespread convergence/panel alignment issues. I currently have an HS10 with great convergence and decided to "upgrade" to an HS20 because I got a killer deal on a brand new one. Unfortunately, the HS20 has terrible convergence problems. I'd love to get an HS51, but if I have to deal with convergence issues, I'd prefer to wait until Sony manages to get the problems ironed out.

Originally posted by reaper
Hey, you're back. Still considering showing off your hs51 some day?

Yeah I'm up for it! How about next Saturday?

Sounds great to me! Let me get the OK from the wife.

reaper

Check out this thread :). If anyone wants to see what their theater might look like in 3d, I might be willing to help ya out. Not for free anymore. One freebie was enough :). Note page 2.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=499384&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

Has anyone here managed to get anywhere with support in the UK regarding the 720p problem? I've got no reply's to email yet, and thier general support email just bouces back. Hmmm!

Originally posted by LimeLizzards
Has anyone here managed to get anywhere with support in the UK regarding the 720p problem? I've got no reply's to email yet, and thier general support email just bouces back. Hmmm!

Sorry, I have nothing to report on the UK front. But as for the US territory (I live in New York), Sony asked me to ship my projector to Grundy's Service center in PA.

Unfortunately, I found out yesterday that Grundys Lane PA Service center cannot handle the 720p masking problem. The Sony rep then told me the projector had already been "forwarded" to the Laredo TX service center where the fix would be implemented. I will be getting the projector in time for the Superbowl, but that was his best "estimate".

*Crossing my fingers*

Hi!

Any news about a patch for the 720p HDMI problem on HS50s? I'm expecting to receive mine by the end of February so I'm hoping the fix will be implemented when I get it...

Morten

IS this 720p hdmi problem only an issue for people using computers with the sony?

No it's an issue for people sending a 720p signal over HDMI, whatever the source. It's also a problem sending 720p into Input A at 50Hz for some reason, so you can't get around it by going HDMI to VGA, using an adaptor.

For those that may be interested the Thomas Norton review of the HS51 is up at www.guidetohometheater.com.

Originally posted by Crockett
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by jpmassey
For those with 51's and are ceiling mounting this projector, what are you using? Has anyone been able to get the Chief RPA-2131 to work? If so where did you find the best price?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> Finally got full technical info, drawings, dimensions, installation instructions from CHIEF (www.chiefmfg.com) for the dedicated mounting solution for the VPL-HS50/51. It is an implementation of the RPA-2131 (which we still know from the HS20) with a new Hanger Bracket called SLB-102. The full kit is called RPA-102 and all details will be on their website in the next few weeks. It can already be ordered though.

Details of the SLB-102 attached ! (sorry, full PDF on the RPA-102 too big to be posted here but you can find that on their site by doing search on RPA-2131, look for RPA-I.pdf)

David

Thanks also to ay221 for pointing this out (he has it already installed).

What if you want to mount it flush to the ceiling. Can you get away with attaching the bracket straight to the ceiling? I've read that these brackets can cost as much as $300? Is that true!? If so, would anyone be interested in machining out some of our own at a cheaper cost? I might be able to get it done given the dimensions. But it mught not be worth the price if I were to only produce one.

reaper

IS this 720p hdmi problem only an issue for people using computers with the sony?

No it's an issue for people sending a 720p signal over HDMI, whatever the source. It's also a problem sending 720p into Input A at 50Hz for some reason, so you can't get around it by going HDMI to VGA, using an adaptor. [edit vb code error]

720p issue applys to all inputs if source is 720p. HDMI, VGA(component mode), component. Regardless source is PC or dedicated DVD, OTA hd player...etc.

The only input without 720p issue with 720p in is VGA (computer mode), i have no trouble with 720p 50hz. That's why some is using dvi>vga adaptor(magic box) due to hdcp from dedicated player.
Keep in mind..... If you have digital display like hs50/51 with hdcp compliant, this adaptor could be useless once they solve the 720p issue. It's a life savior for CRT users not us. Buy wisely..

For those who aren't willing to pay for magic box to temporary fill the gap......go with VGA out from video card if using pc. Otherwise, stick with 1080i for now because the fix is around the corner. 1080i is overscan sightly, but good thing it fills the screen in perfect 1.78(god bless) and the deinterace is very decent.

Well, this may not be the appropriate forum but since a lot of HS50(51) owners have this as a side-kick I thought would be worth mentioning it here.
I just found out that Sony Canada has pulled all NS975 (HDMI) dvd players from all the Sony Stores. Apparently there are some fixes and they have been asked to remove all these dvd players from their display until further notice or until a new stock comes in. They presently DO NOT sell it !!!

So I just wanted to give you a heads up especially to the ones looking to purchase one. For the ones that already have this maybe a phone call to find out wouldn't hurt to know what's the actual story....

I don't know about US but I just came 10 minutes ago from the Sony Store in Eaton Centre (Toronto).

I don't know if this has anything to do with HS50(51)...coincidence... or not... we need to find out...

Originally posted by reaper
What if you want to mount it flush to the ceiling. Can you get away with attaching the bracket straight to the ceiling? I've read that these brackets can cost as much as $300? Is that true!? If so, would anyone be interested in machining out some of our own at a cheaper cost? I might be able to get it done given the dimensions. But it mught not be worth the price if I were to only produce one.

reaper

Reaper, and anybody else, if you are spending more than $80 for a mount for this projector you are spending too much. Omnimount makes a mount called the PMD-1 that matches this projector's color and size perfectly. The best thing about that mount is its design and cost. The design is top notch, allowing you to mount flush to the ceiling or with a pole mount and allowing plenty of options to level. This mount sells for about $125 retail but there is a guy on EBAY selling OEM versions for $69! I got one and it is top notch excellent.

Search Universal Projector Mount Brand New and you will find the add.

Brian

Brian,

Does this mount include the adjustable pipe shown on the Omnimount sites? And, does it include a plate to mount it to the ceiling joists? Or, just use a plumbing pipe flange and cut to order pipe?

Thanks,

Chuck

Can you post a snapshot of what it looks like with the HS51?

And can you adjust the pitch and tilt when flush mounted?

reaper

It comes with everything. This is the Omnimount PMD-1. The seller just does not advertise it as such.

The design is perfect, really.

Brian

I'm ordering one now. You just saved me a couple hundred dinero.

Can I send you a beer in the mail??? ;)


Chuck

Reaper, I might be able to do that since I just installed it the other day. The footprint of the mounting bracket fits the Sony perfectly and the colors match spot on. The picture on the Omnimount site and in the ebay add is what it looks like, just they are using a different projector in the photo. The one in the photo looks worse, in my opinion because the mount looks too large for that little Piano unit. The Sony is a bigger footprint and it looks more balanced with it.

Brian

Originally posted by Chuck Miller
I'm ordering one now. You just saved me a couple hundred dinero.

Can I send you a beer in the mail??? ;)


Chuck

Sure, something exotic! Might be a little fizzy though with the trip...

Brian

With the Omnimount, do the wires run through the pipe?

Originally posted by GScott
For those that may be interested the Thomas Norton review of the HS51 is up at www.guidetohometheater.com.

In the article, he states "There is a full range of the aspect ratios you'll need—Full (anamorphic) Normal (16:9) and Zoom (non-anamorphic, letterbox widescreen). There's also a Wide Zoom that fills the 16:9 screen with a 4:3 image (and distorts that image more obviously than similar modes on other projectors we've seen), and a Subtitle mode that slightly squeezes the bottom of the image to display subtitles that may be positioned below the 16:9 image area. Position controls, functional only in Zoom or Subtitle modes, let you slightly move the overall image (the V Position control) or the position of the subtitles (the Title Area control) as needed. All of these aspect ratios are also available at the HDMI input; the projector does not limit you to an anamorphic, 16x9 setting with such a source, as do some others."

Has anyone been able to get the zoom to work when feeding an HDMI input? I thought that the projector says "not applicable" when you press the button on the remote to switch from normal to zoom.

Friar

Friar, i have the same questions. It could be a typo

Originally posted by htcrazy777
With the Omnimount, do the wires run through the pipe?

Yep, like a charm.

Brian

I believe the zoom works when you feed it 480i or 480P. However not with 720P or 1080I.

I'm a bit unclear on something (and have not been able to figure it out rereading parts of this threat). Is there a simple way to get 1 to 1 pixel mapping with the HS51 using a DVD player, or is an HTPC required? And how much of a difference does 1 to 1 pixel mapping actually make?

Originally posted by usabrian
Yep, like a charm.

Brian

Where do the wires come out of the post? Any pics?

DYP

craige17, my understanding (I haven't received my HS50 yet) is that it's possible to get 1:1 mapping but it requires that you buy a box that converts dvi to vga and that you use input A in Computer Mode. It's important that you buy the correct converter. SOWK has posted some very thorough specs.

Morten

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dyp
Where do the wires come out of the post? Any pics?

DYP

It goes down the post, through the bottom and out the back just where it should. Plenty of info available here and in manual:

http://www.omnimountpro.com/products.asp?p=118

Brian

The user manual doesn't seem to show the adjustment screws in the flush mount configuration. Does it have the ability to flush mount and still adjust pitch and tilt?

reaper

Why in the world would it take VGA conversion to get 1:1 mapping? The panel has a native resolution of 1280x720. Most DVD players will output this via DVI or HDMI. Now I understand about the overscan issue, but pixel mapping is completely seperate from that.

what we should do is lists the issues, yea or no on this very first post then ask them nicely to read it and keep it updated with lastest development.

Same old question posts and answers in million ways

Am I doing this right? I'm trying to get the Input-A/720p/Computer mode nirvana. I connected my VGA cable from my Samsung 360 HD box to the Sony, the Samsung has a VGA out. 1080i came up 4:3, so I switched to 720p and the pic had some black on the right edge. I then adjusted the H-phase and the image moved to the right and filled the screen. Am I doing this right? The image looked maybe a little sharper but not the WOW factor I was looking for. I still have to calibrate that imput and I just looked at a few HD sources this morning so maybe I need to play with it.
Is this the proper way to set this up? Does the H-phase adjustment degrade the image?

Any help would be appreciated!

Sorry, I'm such a noob=(first projector)

Thanks,

------------------------------------

James

Hi,
Is anyone using their HS51 with an anamorphic lens?

To get the constant height detailed at the bottom of this page:
http://www.prismasonic.com/english/intro.shtml

Do I need anything other than the HS51 and lens? Would I have to change settings on the HS51 when switching between aspect ratio's?

I'm getting my HT together, and I going with a HS51, 2.35 AR Silverstar, and anamorphic lens (H1000)... just wanting to make sure I'm not missing anything.

Thanks!

James

You might want to check and see if you have an adjustment to move the picture left and right on your Samsung 360 for the DVI and VGA output. My ota Samsung 165 have adjustments for both DVI and VGA to move the picture. I don't recall how to do it on my 165, but if I were you I would check the stb area to see if yours has the adjustment available.

Originally posted by craige17
I'm a bit unclear on something (and have not been able to figure it out rereading parts of this threat). Is there a simple way to get 1 to 1 pixel mapping with the HS51 using a DVD player, or is an HTPC required? And how much of a difference does 1 to 1 pixel mapping actually make?
The only input that provides 1 to 1 pixel mapping is Input A in computer mode (VGA/RGB). All other inputs do some type of processing. 720P to HDMI does not seem to scale, but does seem to do some type of smoothing or averaging. Text looks thicker and smoother than using Input A, and a 1 pixel B&W checkerboard becomes uniform gray. At least this is the case with HTPC-DVI -> HDMI.

Someone reported success using the VGA output on the Momitsu scaling DVD player. For DVD players with no VGA out, you will need a VGA converter box to get 1 to 1.

1 to 1 mapping makes a noticable difference with Windows from a HTPC, text looks sharper and clearer. However, I don't see that much difference when watching DVDs, probably because the source resolution is only 720x480.

hi there i am going to get the new hs51, the shop where i am are getting 2 in on the 15th of this month

but i need to know if the unit has the 720p fix cropping

what firmware version would it need to be to have this fixed can i check the projectors firmware anyone know ????????????

thanks all

alos i have the hs10 i hope the hs50 is way better

What fix? As of today there is not a "fix." We all hope there will be though...

Brian

What fix? As of today there is not a "fix." We all hope there will be though...

Just in case someone read this and raise questions again.

Thanks to effort from Bytehoven, he able to get attention from sony dude and fix is ready for those who's willing to send it back to factory. As for now, that's the only option.

Until those who have it fixed and confirmed, we don't have an answer just yet.

Originally posted by Bytehoven
Some folks have reported the cleanest image with the 720p VGA-RGB connection. That has not been my observation. Except for the image cropping, the HDMI 720p signal was the best on my HS-51.

I did not take the opportunity to create a pattern for two points on a 1280x720 image and measure both accordingly with HDMI and Computer GBR. But I have to believe that something aside from the cropping is going on in the HDMI input. Its just different in PQ and this shouldn't have anything to do with the cropping unless it is scaling the image or applying some other form of processing. The HDMI has never been observed to be sharper/cleaner on my unit and another unit I had in my home.

I wonder if its a unit-to-unit difference condition?

is the cropping just as bad on the hs-10 because i read that all sony projectors have alot of croping ?????

Originally posted by GScott
For those that may be interested the Thomas Norton review of the HS51 is up at www.guidetohometheater.com.
Thanks for posting the link. I finally had a chance to skim through it. Another very positive review for the HS-51. It does seem to be a breakthrough projector that is raising the bar in it's price range. If they could only provide a 720P pass thru for HDMI and component...

Not the most thorough review however. I did not see any mention of the blanking issue at 720P. From the brief HDTV section it sounds like he only tried 1080i. Also no mention of testing Input A with a PC. So far the Widescreen Review article seems to be the most thorough.

Originally posted by Meridius
is the cropping just as bad on the hs-10 because i read that all sony projectors have alot of croping ?????
Are you talking about the 720P blanking/cropping or overscan in general? I think Sony has a reputation for excessive overscan. I don't have a HS10 but on the HS-51 the overscan is about 5% for 480i and 480p inputs. It is about 2.5% for 1080i to HDMI, which is more acceptable. However, for all of these modes all the pixels are used, it just isn't showing 100% of the available image. This is different than the 720p blanking issue where you have a 2.5% black border within the available pixels.

Under the Highs he lists 'no rainbow artifacts', but since when did LCD have these? Also, was the position on pixel cropping, HDMI processing, etc. considered too trivial to mention?

THE FERRET

If you are referring to NORTON;S ULTIMATE AV SONY HS51 REVIEW, he apparently was not significantly enough bothered by them(cropping & hdmi processing issues) to mention any serious short comings. He does mention the best looking picture he could obtain was thru the HDMI input. He does mention the %of over scan, in the various inputs, however,again, it apparently didn't bother him. I have been reading his reviews for years now, and have never seen one quite so positive, for a digital projector.

CHEERS, TC
PS, i do have to mention my first HS51 left much to be desired, with mis aligned pixels, overall contrast, still not quite right, even with auto iris engaged, etc., however the second one, is much better, and quite frankly a stunning buy for the money. Just sold my SIM 300E( GREAT projector, by the way),however not really missing it at the moment.

Yes, I am referring to that specific review.

Sorry Ferrett but because you sent yours back you are hereby disallowed from further discussions in this or any other HS51 thread. So shall it be written, so shall it be done.... ;)Brian

Bull-hockey. I can point out weirdisms!

I got my HS51 today. Yay. The room isn't even started and all I have is a black out cloth in a roll sitting on my couch. Damn. I will make do for now. Any suggestions for me to run through an HTPC? Meaning any absolutely positivly *MUST* configure before you watch settings or anything?

Brian

Originally posted by zooxmusic
I got my HS51 today. Yay. The room isn't even started and all I have is a black out cloth in a roll sitting on my couch. Damn. I will make do for now. Any suggestions for me to run through an HTPC? Meaning any absolutely positivly *MUST* configure before you watch settings or anything?
My recommendations in order of importance:

Connect your HTPC to Input A using a good quality VGA cable.
Set your HTPC to 1280x720@60p and follow the instructions in this post in the tweak thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4862513#post4862513) to get 1x1 pixel mapping.
Start with the Cinema or User 3 Mode.
Use Avia or similar test disk and at the very least set the Brightness, the default setting is likely not good. If you don't have a test disk, try the test patterns on a THX certified DVD. With my setup I had to go down to Brightness=35, but others have reported much higher numbers so it may be very setup or PJ dependent.
Keep the contrast below 80 to avoid color shift, under 70 is better.
Set color saturation and hue from your DVD software. With my HTPC the default setting was far too saturated and hue was slightly off.
Open a grayscale test pattern and try the different color temp settings to see which looks most gray to you. I prefer the Middle. Low is too red, High is too blue.
Make sure your HTPC DVD software is using a gamma of 1.0. There may be a setting in the software, or you may need to check the Overlay settings under Display settings. On mine it defaulted to 0.85 after installation and the image looked too dark.

When you have time, read through the tweak thread, there is lots of good info posted there.

Thanks jschefdog,
You are awesome! That was EXACTLY what I was looking for. Now that I own it I will be spending some time on the tweak thread. Not too much so far because I didn't have it yet but thank you.

Brian

I am interested in upgarding to the HS51.

I have a Sony 10HT witha a 120" diagonal Stewart Grayhawk screen.

I am aware that the HS51 has less panel resolution than the 10HT.

I'm using a HTPC and THeaterTek DVD software.

I am especially interested in how brightness levels between the two projectors compare?

Can anyone here comment on how the HS51 compares to the 10HT, negatives and positives?

Thank you.

Big picture,

I came from an 11HT and now have the HS51. I cannot tell any discernible differences in the slight loss in resolution. What you will find is the differences in picture quality is like night and day. Go ahead and pull the trigger you won't be disappointed coming from the 10HT.

Sorry for the confusion, but has anyone received a "fixed" HS51 back from Sony? Like others, I'm ready to purchase a HS51, but I'm wondering how to get one with the upgraded firmware... or the most effective way to get a new unit fixed (since it doesn't seem like there are any 'fixed' units in stores yet).

Originally posted by MoG
Sorry for the confusion, but has anyone received a "fixed" HS51 back from Sony? Like others, I'm ready to purchase a HS51, but I'm wondering how to get one with the upgraded firmware... or the most effective way to get a new unit fixed (since it doesn't seem like there are any 'fixed' units in stores yet).

I dont think anyone has, and to be honest I dont think anyone will tht sends it in. There would have to be a lot more people complaining, and more people talking to the engineers at sony to get this fixed. Supposebly Byte is sending his in to get fixed, but Im sure he'll probably come back on the forums screaming that they did absolutly nothing. If you can use VGA input on the Sony at 720P computer mode, then you can get past all your problems!

I posted this in the main forum by mistake, I meant to post it here, so sorry if anybody reads it twice.

My hs51 will no longer sync with a 720p 60hz through the input-a. I get a frequency out of range message. The 720p signal is coming from a dvdo iscan hd+. It worked fine for several weeks. The dvi connection works fine (except for the usual blanketing). Any ideas ?
Of course it failed just as I was demoing my HT for someone, turned everything on as usual..no picture. I had to dig out the dvi cable and hook that up.
thanks,
dan

Dan, do you have a STB that can output 720P RGB? How about a computer using a desktop resolution of 1280x720?

On the information menu of the hs51 what signal does it say its recieving? If its not showing 720p/60 then its probably a setting on the hd+. Does it sinc with other resolutions?

Ferret and JJ--thanks. No to the computer, I have an HR10-250 STB, I dont know if it will output VGA or not, I'll have to check. I didnt check the HS51 info menu, since I figured if it didn't sysc up, then it wouldn't know what it was getting. Also, I need to try other resolutions. What setting might it be on the hd+ ? Its set to output 720p at 60hz.

Originally posted by mintakaX
My hs51 will no longer sync with a 720p 60hz through the input-a. I get a frequency out of range message.
That is odd. I never saw that message on Input A when I was first trying out my HTPC. I tried a variety of resolutions and refresh rates. Some looked good and some bad, but I never got the "out of range message". I did get that message often on HDMI whenever I went too far outside the values in the table in the back of the manual.

Do you have a multisync computer monitor that you can hookup to your Iscan VGA out? That might help determine if it is the Iscan VGA output or the HS-51 Input A that is causing the problem. Have you checked to make sure Input A is set to Computer or Auto?

Thanks, I do have a monitor (I believe its multisync) that I could try. Thats a good idea. I've just been assuming that its the HS51, but it may be the hd+. Yes,the input A is set to computer, I checked that first.

That is odd. I never saw that message on Input A when I was first trying out my HTPC. I tried a variety of resolutions and refresh rates. Some looked good and some bad, but I never got the "out of range message". I did get that message often on HDMI whenever I went too far outside the values in the table in the back of the manual.

Do you have a multisync computer monitor that you can hookup to your Iscan VGA out? That might help determine if it is the Iscan VGA output or the HS-51 Input A that is causing the problem. Have you checked to make sure Input A is set to Computer or Auto? [/QUOTE]

I have the exact setup as you and I can duplicate your out of sync problem if I select 480i HDMI output on the Sat Receiver.

MAKE SURE YOUR DIRECTV IS NOT SET TO 480i when outputting via HDMI and feeding into iScanHD+ even if you are outputting VGA out from iScan.

HD DirecTv via HDMI ---> iScanHD+ via VGA out --> INPUT_A Computer
480p, 720p and 1080i output from Sat Receiver work fine however 480i is not currently possible because the iScan cannot process 480i over HDMI.

Also TURN OFF HDCP on HDMI input using the iScan menu option.

Originally posted by mintakaX
Thanks, I do have a monitor (I believe its multisync) that I could try. Thats a good idea. I've just been assuming that its the HS51, but it may be the hd+. Yes,the input A is set to computer, I checked that first.

If anybody is interested this is the panel alignment on my HS50 bought in Australia. Not sure if this is good or not - this is my first projector and I'm still learning :).

Picture is a macro closup of a white cross.

Byte, nothing with you, I just dont want you blowing up Sony if they dont fix it.

But you are a pioneer here for trying to get a fix, and I salute you!


Thanks for all your support!

Originally posted by strobe1970
If anybody is interested this is the panel alignment on my HS50 bought in Australia. Not sure if this is good or not - this is my first projector and I'm still learning :).

Picture is a macro closup of a white cross. That looks a lot like the letter 'A' I posted a while back. Must be a uniform assembly condition.

Just curious...when there is the ability of vertical or horizontal adjustment , this is usually accomplished with internal prisms . This will amplify any "panel" miss-alignments when the offset is close to a maximum .

For those suspecting panel miss-alignments , try setting all mechanical lens offsets to zero as well as any keystoning and THEN see if you still think there are physical panel offsets .

Just curious...

Scott.......................:)

Scott_R_K: I figured that mechanical offset might exacerbate the percieved mis-alignment so both vertical and horizontal offsets pretty much at centre.

TheFerret: Did you return your unit to Sony for a re-alignment ? or was the visible impact for you not that significant ? (Do you have a link to you post of the A ?)

Paul

Well, I had to come to the forum to post my good news. I have had my hs51 sitting in it's box for weeks now as well as my new sony hdmi dvd player and my Carada 100 inch diagonal Brilliant White screen in their boxes. I have been finishing a room to set up my theater in. Earlier today, I finally got the screen up. Then, I put the hs51 on a cabinet (the projector ceiling mount gets here on Tuesday) and I connected the dvd player (all I have here is a svhs cable so that's what I used, about to order the hdmi cable). I don't have the sound hooked up yet, so I simply popped in Lord of the rings dvd and turned on the projector. After getting the image to fit the screen and focusing, I left everything else on default in the cinema mode. All I can say is WOW! I say it again, WOW! One last time, WOW! (Can you tell this is my first projector?) This has been one of my dreams, to have a home theater. I am simply thrilled with the sony. And thanks to David at Carada, the match with the Brilliant White is, well, Brilliant!! Then, even without the sound, I had to bring in the kids and my wife to see the new theater. But first, I switched to Finding Nemo, a family favorite film, and wowed all of them with the incredible image. We don't yet have our seating, so we were all sitting on the floor and everyone's response was that this was better than any movie theater they had ever been to! So, tomorrow, I will order the hdmi cable from Blue Jeans as well as a bunch of speaker wire and get my sound system set up this week.

Is anyone here using thier HS51 with a Prismasonic lens? Specifically the H-1000?

Regardless, is anyone using their HS51 with a 2.35 AR screen?

thanks.

Ordered my HS50 (European model of HS51) last week and should have it monday (though i doubt it since they are out of stock at sony).
Have mailed Sony IN ADVANCE about me being able to send in projector of panels are not aligned and asking about a software settable "blanking off".

Funny enough they have not responded to my email - i hope that the rumours i av heard that "sony are so big they dont give a crap about the customers" is NOT true :-O

Well see next week hopefully and i am crossing my fingers that my panels are aligned...though the blanking will probably have to wait - if it ever will disappear on the HS :(

Regards
BL

Originally posted by usabrian
Reaper, and anybody else, if you are spending more than $80 for a mount for this projector you are spending too much. Omnimount makes a mount called the PMD-1 that matches this projector's color and size perfectly. The best thing about that mount is its design and cost. The design is top notch, allowing you to mount flush to the ceiling or with a pole mount and allowing plenty of options to level. This mount sells for about $125 retail but there is a guy on EBAY selling OEM versions for $69! I got one and it is top notch excellent.

Search Universal Projector Mount Brand New and you will find the add.

Brian
Thanks for posting this info Brian. I ordered one of these from Ebay and it arrived on Friday. As you said it is the Omnimount PMD-1. A real bargain considering what some mounts cost, and decent looking as well. With shipping and CA taxes total cost was about $93.

It's an interesting design. It uses a metal grill mounting plate with large flat washers to screw the PJ to the plate. It should work for most digital PJs that don't weigh too much. I really like this idea since you won't need to keep buying new mounts or mounting plates if you upgrade or try other PJs in the future.

Thanks again.

In the over $3500 forum Li On posted a review of the new Marantz S4 DLP PJ (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=505760). Of interest is that he reported blanking at 720P over HDMI. He indicated about 1%, less than the HS-51 but still significant. He also indicated that the AE700 has blanking, which I had not heard. It makes you wonder if this is built into the signal processing chips that these PJ manufacturers are using.

jschefdog, the blanking on the AE700 was reported months ago. I even thought I mentioned it a couple of time (when I was complaining). It would now seem the lack of intelligence in the projector community is keeping up with the unwashed masses ability to survive death in large numbers.

I still would like to hear one manufacturer explain to me why this is a must for 720P only and not any other HDTV/ATSC resolution.

Originally posted by jschefdog
In the over $3500 forum Li On posted a review of the new Marantz S4 DLP PJ (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=505760). Of interest is that he reported blanking at 720P over HDMI. He indicated about 1%, less than the HS-51 but still significant. He also indicated that the AE700 has blanking, which I had not heard. It makes you wonder if this is built into the signal processing chips that these PJ manufacturers are using.

Yeah quite A LOT LESS.
I could have lived with the 0.8% overscan if the picture was good but living with 5% blanking on each side is a waste of pixels.
If I do the maths you loose (1- (0,9*0,9) = About 20% of the image information is lost and that is NOT tolerable.


Regards
Boogie

This is a long thread! There are only so many free hours in a day ...

I'm thinking about getting the HS50 as a replacement for my Epson Cinema 500. Could someone post a screenshot of what the windows desktop looks like on the HS50, so that I can better understand this cropping and blanking issue? Maybe there is already a picture of it buried somewhere in teh annals of this thread.

If the picture is cropped, it can't be doing 1:1 pixel mapping, right? Or is it blanking out the amount that is cropped, retaining 1:1 mapping for the desktop that is shown? And does blanking just mean that a black border exists around the picture where picture is missing?

Thanks,

Vince