Originally posted by vincanity
This is a long thread! There are only so many free hours in a day ...

I'm thinking about getting the HS50 as a replacement for my Epson Cinema 500. Could someone post a screenshot of what the windows desktop looks like on the HS50, so that I can better understand this cropping and blanking issue? Maybe there is already a picture of it buried somewhere in teh annals of this thread.

If the picture is cropped, it can't be doing 1:1 pixel mapping, right? Or is it blanking out the amount that is cropped, retaining 1:1 mapping for the desktop that is shown? And does blanking just mean that a black border exists around the picture where picture is missing?

Thanks,

Vince

As mentioned in the tweaks thread, I use the Input A (VGA) connection from my HTPC and have pixel perfect as does everyone else using Input A. You should definitely read that thread.

I agree, read the tweaks thread. But, its a major disappointment to know that for a digital display you cannot get perfect 1:1 mapping with no pixel cropping while feeding the digital display a native resolution using a digital transport.

In essence, you are forced to use an analog transport and DA-AD.

Originally posted by vincanity
This is a long thread! There are only so many free hours in a day ...

I'm thinking about getting the HS50 as a replacement for my Epson Cinema 500. Could someone post a screenshot of what the windows desktop looks like on the HS50, so that I can better understand this cropping and blanking issue? Maybe there is already a picture of it buried somewhere in teh annals of this thread.

If the picture is cropped, it can't be doing 1:1 pixel mapping, right? Or is it blanking out the amount that is cropped, retaining 1:1 mapping for the desktop that is shown? And does blanking just mean that a black border exists around the picture where picture is missing?

Thanks,

Vince

Blanking
-----------
Think of it like this.
The pj outputs the full image on your screen - 1:1 mapping.
You then take a big black frame and place over the outer edges of the image - hence it gets smaller but maintains 1:1.

Overscan fills the entire panel BUT missing info (overscanned picture = enlarged picture) gets outside the display panels pixelstructure hence loosing info that way - but the size of the pic is maintained.

Regards
Boogie

Originally posted by gdemott
I have the exact setup as you and I can duplicate your out of sync problem if I select 480i HDMI output on the Sat Receiver.

MAKE SURE YOUR DIRECTV IS NOT SET TO 480i when outputting via HDMI and feeding into iScanHD+ even if you are outputting VGA out from iScan.

HD DirecTv via HDMI ---> iScanHD+ via VGA out --> INPUT_A Computer
480p, 720p and 1080i output from Sat Receiver work fine however 480i is not currently possible because the iScan cannot process 480i over HDMI.

Also TURN OFF HDCP on HDMI input using the iScan menu option.

Sat reciever is set for 720p as it has been since I got it, also,HDCP is set to off as well. Same thing happens wien the input to iscan is com1, ie my dvd player. I get out of frequency on input _a for all ouput resolutions from the iscan. I haven't lugged my multisync monitor out to my HT yet so I'm still not sure if the problem is from the iscan vga or the hs51 input _a. I need to figure this out, but I'm running out of time to mess with it. I'd really like to go back to input_a, but it seems that in either case I will either have to send the iscan or the hs51 in for repair.

Any more ideas ??

Originally posted by [Europe]Boogiem
Yeah quite A LOT LESS.
I could have lived with the 0.8% overscan if the picture was good but living with 5% blanking on each side is a waste of pixels.
If I do the maths you loose (1- (0,9*0,9) = About 20% of the image information is lost and that is NOT tolerable.
On my HS-51 the 720p blanking is about 2.5% on each edge, not 5%. Here is what I measured for the inputs I tried.

480i - 5% overscan
480p - 5% overscan
720p - 2.5% blanking
1080i - 2.5% overscan

overscan = all the pixels are used to display the image, but the source image is scaled up larger than the panels so part of it is cropped

blanking = some of the pixels are used to display a black border around the image also resulting in cropping of the source image

I think WSR reported similar numbers. I agree that 5% overscan excessive and should be reduced or made adjustable. This seems to be a Sony trait, I have seen similar complaints about other Sony displays. Makes you wonder if it is some sort of Dilbertian management mandate. Interesting that the 720p and 1080i cropping percent is the same although achieved in very different ways. It must be the Sony HDTV required cropping specification.

Originally posted by vincanity
If the picture is cropped, it can't be doing 1:1 pixel mapping, right? Or is it blanking out the amount that is cropped, retaining 1:1 mapping for the desktop that is shown? And does blanking just mean that a black border exists around the picture where picture is missing?
This is a source of some debate, but to me it appears that 720P input to HDMI is not being scaled. I hooked up an HTPC using both VGA to Input A (verified 1:1 pixel mapping) and DVI to HDMI. Same graphics card, same desktop. When I switched from one to the other and measured the width of a large window it did not change. So it seems that the image is not being scaled, so it could be 1:1 mapping even though the edges are cropped by the black borders when using HDMI.

However, I was using a 1x1 pixel B&W checkerboard pattern as my desktop. Using Input A I could clearly see the checkerboard. On HDMI, it became a uniform gray. Also text on Input A is thin and sharp, on HDMI it is fatter and softer. So even if the HDMI input is not scaling, it seems to be doing some type of smoothing or averaging on the pixels.

If you start at this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4723551#post4723551) and then go to the next page you will find some pictures I posted which show the effect and amount of cropping on a Desktop. Basically it crops about 1/2 of the taskbar at 1280x720, and a similar amount all the way around.

As someone mentioned, for HTPC the best choice it to use VGA to Input A. The tweak thread contains instructions to get 1:1 pixel mapping using this input.

When I fed 720P via DVI (to HDMI) about half the height and 2/3 of the Start button were cropped out. It was difficult seeing what taskbar Quick-launch icons were which.

Originally posted by Bytehoven
That was and still is my observation qwith the HS-51. The 720 HMDI, VGA-YUV, and component YUV present 1:1 pixel mapping, but with the edges of the cropped off.

Some folks reported these alternate 720p signals also had a softer fuzzy artifact. I did not observe this from either an Iscan HD or my Motorola 6208 HDTV tuner.

Sony has a fix for the 720p cropping. The details are not clear and so far nobody has had a projector fixed yet.

Keep an eye on this thread for news as it becomes available.

I thought the last info from your contact at Sony was that they were near a fix, just not sure yet how to implement it? Who actually has the fix?

Brian

This is a source of some debate, but to me it appears that 720P input to HDMI is not being scaled. I hooked up an HTPC using both VGA to Input A (verified 1:1 pixel mapping) and DVI to HDMI. Same graphics card, same desktop. When I switched from one to the other and measured the width of a large window it did not change. So it seems that the image is not being scaled, so it could be 1:1 mapping even though the edges are cropped by the black borders when using HDMI.

same here

However, I was using a 1x1 pixel B&W checkerboard pattern as my desktop. Using Input A I could clearly see the checkerboard. On HDMI, it became a uniform gray. Also text on Input A is thin and sharp, on HDMI it is fatter and softer. So even if the HDMI input is not scaling, it seems to be doing some type of smoothing or averaging on the pixels

same here and don't need any test pattern to see it clearly. I can't stand looking at windows desktop for minutes without getting headache. Bit too fuzzy ....while the input A is crystal clear. On film materials, you can't hardly tell.....What i hate to see if the fix doesn't let hdmi pass tho 720p even if they cure the masking. That would be a b*tch for those using hdmi 720p for gaming and web browsing.

To Bytehoven (pixelwrangler :) )

We are awaiting the answers with great anticipation.

I guess you have asked about:
- 720p blanking
- panel pixel dis-alignement

and maybe soemthing more i dont know of.

I wonder how they will act here in Europe.
It seems as though Sony USA is quaite a lot more customer and product aware since my mail to customer support here in Sweden have still not given any answer (one week a go) and also calling hotline gives no feedback - the havent even gotten aquainted with the HS50 yet and thus know less than even I do.

Regards
Boogieman

It would be nice if someone could take some screen captures of the before/after condition for the YPbPr and HDMI inputs with 720P being applied.

Boogiem, I have the same problem here in England. Customer Support email just gets bounced back and automated web mail just never gets answered. I have yet to phone their help line but will as soon as I can. I very much like the HS50, but I will be very reluctant to buy a Sony again.

Originally posted by TheFerret
It would be nice if someone could take some screen captures of the before/after condition for the YPbPr and HDMI inputs with 720P being applied.

I will hopefully get my PJ tomorrow to be able to test and take some photos (e.g. 1080i no balnking vs 720p blanking on my framed screen).
Anyway both HDMI RGB and component gives the blanking phenomena - allthough I think the component version gives a tad better image at least on the NTSC discs i tried out.
Probably a PAL DVD would look better on RGB HDMI due to the format it is stored on at the disc (less signal converting)

Regards
Boogieman

Originally posted by LimeLizzards
Boogiem, I have the same problem here in England. Customer Support email just gets bounced back and automated web mail just never gets answered. I have yet to phone their help line but will as soon as I can. I very much like the HS50, but I will be very reluctant to buy a Sony again.

Yes it is a shame that Sony is so big - that makes them listen less to the individual customer but hopefully they will listen to the masses.
Unfortannatelly it seems like it will take som time before theese problems will be taken care of here in europe so i am crosing my fingers to get a pj with at elast the panels aligned - but i dont have the hopes up since most panels seems to be misaligned according to a poll that was made here on the forum :(

Regards
Boogieman

Originally posted by [Europe]Boogiem
Yes it is a shame that Sony is so big - that makes them listen less to the individual customer but hopefully they will listen to the masses.
Unfortannatelly it seems like it will take som time before theese problems will be taken care of here in europe so i am crosing my fingers to get a pj with at elast the panels aligned - but i dont have the hopes up since most panels seems to be misaligned according to a poll that was made here on the forum :(

Regards
Boogieman


Sorry all, but I've been sitting on the sidelines here for 154 pages and those kicking Sony don't really know what they're talking about.
Sony already knew about the issues raised here BEFORE we contacted them. They were already working on a solution. Maybe the European Sony guys are unresponsive -- not so here in the US.
They try to make a world class product for a real-world retail price. My many years of owning/using Sony products have been more than satisfactory. Sometimes the grunts on the customer service lines don't know what's up, but the Execs do. And they respond as quickly as they can (often like getting a super-tanker to turn).
The 50/51 problems have been dealt with and now Sony is trying to find the quickest/best way to meet the needs of ANY unhappy owners.
Just my $0.02

Regards
SFNSXguy

You know they have been dealt with? I haven't seen any confirmation of these fixes. Just curious if you have any proof that a blanking fix is coming.

reaper

Originally posted by SFNSXguy
Sorry all, but I've been sitting on the sidelines here for 154 pages and those kicking Sony don't really know what they're talking about.
Sony already knew about the issues raised here BEFORE we contacted them. They were already working on a solution. Maybe the European Sony guys are unresponsive -- not so here in the US.
They try to make a world class product for a real-world retail price. My many years of owning/using Sony products have been more than satisfactory. Sometimes the grunts on the customer service lines don't know what's up, but the Execs do. And they respond as quickly as they can (often like getting a super-tanker to turn).
The 50/51 problems have been dealt with and now Sony is trying to find the quickest/best way to meet the needs of ANY unhappy owners.
Just my $0.02

Regards
SFNSXguy

This is your first post and while I hear what you are saying loud and clear the fact that its your first post might be considered suspicious by some so you might want to let people in on specifics as to how you know this, which your post was sorely lacking in.

Thanks, Brian

Originally posted by reaper
You know tehy have been dealt with? I haven't seen any confirmation of these fixes. Just curious if you have any proof that a blanking fix is coming.

reaper


"Proof".... proof?

Badges... I don't got to show you no stinkin' badges!

Trust me.... I have it on the highest authority (a Sony Senior VP that I have known for nearly 20 years)

More regards,

SFNSXguy

:D Brian :D

I believe that most people here are pretty satisfied with their sony since it a great machine THOUGH when you buy a new product you of course want it to be without any major flaws.

Errors like pixel panel alignement and blanking issues might be 2 problems that arent really easy seen at a view in a store since they maybe dont change from 720P to 1080 while you watch, hence not showing the blanking error (which salesman will show you the errors of the machine if he wants it sold :)).

A pixel alignement error is also such a thing since it obviously differs from PJ to PJ - some are pixel perfect aligned and some diff up to 2-3 pixels in different directions so the PJ you have seen might be a good unit while the one that is shipped is not
Have had similar problems with my currently to be replaced InFocus LS110 that was really quiet in the shop but my delivered item was really noisy. InFocus swiftly took it in after ONE call and made an effort - it did not turn out quite well since now there was a net noise (like bees in the fan) when i plugged it in (though not heard at their test lab) but still they took it in once more and when it came back there were still a problem with noise so they simply replaced it for me without fuzz. All this in the matter of less than a month. That is the servicemind I would like to se in all suppliers.

I really hope that Sony stands up for their name and shows an equally good service.

I started out before ordering the PJ to call a service centre if they have a plan to fix blanking and pixel panel dis-alignemnt, but the guy didnt know anything about the model (since it had stopped shipping he said and was brand new) but if there where such flaws it would probably take half a year before they could get on the problem he guessed. He told me to mail info@sony.se that probably new more about it. Either the info@sony.se are under a lot of stress or they actually dont know about the problem since the have left me with no reply so far (over 1 week ago). In worst case they have just binned my mail (but I really dont think nor hope so).

Having lived through my share of service problems with other suppliers (not everyone as good as InFocus) I allways expect the worst and dont get upset if some are slow in the start but when being "totally ignored" i start to wonder.

My PJ should arrive this week and I sure am X-ing my fingers for the pixel panels to be aligned since that seems to be an issue that only some guys in the US have gotten fixed while some seem to have problem. I then imagine how hard that would become here in Europe since it seems by the looks of it that Sony US is allready working on a fix whiler over here they fumble in darkness (unless I only have caught the wrong people). Hopefully US fix will spread to Europe quite fast to soften the bad words but I guess we will just have to wait and see.

Anyways -my point being - throwing **** without a reason (not having tried) is not good, but if you feel left without an answer feeling as though no-one cares about the problems that you serve them (to help them and of course to help yourself) then I get upset. Reading about that the problem is generall for all PJ´s actually makes me calm because the chance is bigger that a fix will come forth than if you enter in single handed. The question now (reading the mail about sony being on the problem) is only WHEN, here in Europe. Service in Europe are normally sent by mail services so every unit has to be sent in (which is no good since every freight might harm the PJ) so i dont think they will have a "come to this city and we will fix your PJ", at least over here. Have never heard of it even though it sounds like a really good idea to get em all done in a short period of time :)

The thing with getting in touch with the right people to get a good answer is one thing (when you mention it). If the people at service / customer support cant answer your questions why dont they direct you to someone that can OR ask them to call you. This makes it hard for people that have less contacts than real homecinema gurus and IMO service should be equal for all.

Knowing that most people here are from the US this mail will give no punch but it felt good to express my meanings anyway.
No offense - I am hoping for that fix being discussed relly comes up and hopefully soon.

Regards
Boogieman

I certainly have no reason to doubt you guys. I guess I'm just a doubter by nature. Hope you're right.

Originally posted by mintakaX
Sat reciever is set for 720p as it has been since I got it, also,HDCP is set to off as well. Same thing happens wien the input to iscan is com1, ie my dvd player. I get out of frequency on input _a for all ouput resolutions from the iscan. I haven't lugged my multisync monitor out to my HT yet so I'm still not sure if the problem is from the iscan vga or the hs51 input _a. I need to figure this out, but I'm running out of time to mess with it. I'd really like to go back to input_a, but it seems that in either case I will either have to send the iscan or the hs51 in for repair.

Any more ideas ??

I just connected the iScanHD+ VGA Output at 720p into a standard computer (Lcd Flat Panel) monitor and everything works perfect as expected.

So to determine if your OUT OF SYNC problem is Projector -or- iScan related simply plug the VGA out of the iScan into a computer monitor.

Originally posted by reaper
I certainly have no reason to doubt you guys. I guess I'm just a doubter by nature. Hope you're right. Hey, I am a naturally born pessimistic kind of individual. I would have questioned him just as easily.

Forums are easy to hide oneself and also to misrepresent oneself. Without Byte's reply to vouch for him I would have taken his first post with a pound of salt, too.

Originally posted by TheFerret
Forums are easy to hide oneself and also to misrepresent oneself. Without Byte's reply to vouch for him I would have taken his first post with a pound of salt, too.

A pound?

Brian ;)

Originally posted by Bytehoven
Didn't you post you sent your HS-51 in for repair and it was forwarded to Laredo, Tx?

If no, sorry for the misunderstanding.

RJ
...

me? No.... I don't own one yet...

Originally posted by usabrian
A pound?

Brian ;) Why think small.

Hey, I have my projector sitting on my floor in the box, still unopened, awaiting delivery of my screen. If someone (Byte?) can point me in the right direction, I'll drive my projector down to San Jose for the fix and report back to the Forum.

--------------------------------
Ron Party

Originally posted by reaper
me? No.... I don't own one yet...

I think Byte was referring to me :)

We both have the same username; well almost...

Yeah... I noticed that, you hack! ;) j/k

How are you guys finding the brightness of the projector? Is it stricktly a lights off projector????

Aceman

On my Epson, I could see the entire 1280x720 desktop with 1:1 pixel mapping over HDMI. However, when watching movies, I did notice even for 1.85 movies, a very thin black bar along the top and bottom. The reason being that 16:9 is a 1.777 ratio. The larger the aspect ratio, the larger the black bars should be on the screen. Even with 1.85 movies, I should see a thin black bar along the top and bottom. I worked this out to 10 pixels on the top and bottom being black.

So maybe the Sony is blanking those pixels out for us rather than the projector trying to display a black bar along the top and bottom? Their mistake is in assuming HDMI will only be for video and not for PC.

Bottom line for me is that I only connect the PC to the projector to watch movies. So I would have seen thin black bars along the top and bottom anyways. I don't think I'd miss the 10 pixels on the right and left sides. So the only issue for me would be if it is 1:1 pixel mapped in the remaining area. I'm going to try to check this out at a local dealer on Saturday. He's kind enough to let me bring my computer with me to hook up and check out.

Originally posted by Aceman
How are you guys finding the brightness of the projector? Is it stricktly a lights off projector????

Aceman

For movies, with iris auto, lamp low, you would probably want the lights off. Otherwise, you won't be getting any of the contrast that is so highly desirable with this projector. I am sure that there are several people on this forum who have this projector set up in a controlled environment with black walls, etc ... and I am guessing that their picture for movies must be simple awesome. For me, I'm thrilled with my results, even though I don't have a controlled environment.

For sports ... well, I had 50 people over to my house for the superbowl. Lights were on, people were partying, and everyone was amazed at how bright and clear the picture was. I had the HS-51 set at iris auto, lamp high for the game. My room is an open room with tan walls, white ceiling and tan carpet. I am using a 110" Stewart Firehawk. It is supposed to help in ambient lighting situations, so this projector in your home with a different screen may not respond the same in a lights on situation. Also, with my setup the lights are cans shining down from the ceiling. If you had a regular table lamp (or lamps) shining directly at the screen, I am pretty sure that although it may be watchable, you wouldn't be real happy with the results. I think that it's not just the amount of light in a room, but the direction of the light, that can make a big difference (don't take offense if you think I'm stating the obvious).

Friar

Friar,

No offense taken - thanks very much for the informative reply.

aceman

So maybe the Sony is blanking those pixels out for us rather than the projector trying to display a black bar along the top and bottom? Their mistake is in assuming HDMI will only be for video and not for PC.


NOT ONLY applys to PC 720P hdmi, any 720P sources coming from component, VGA(component selection), HDMI is Masked. EXCEPT input A VGA with computer selection.

On my Epson, I could see the entire 1280x720 desktop with 1:1 pixel mapping over HDMI. However, when watching movies, I did notice even for 1.85 movies, a very thin black bar along the top and bottom. The reason being that 16:9 is a 1.777 ratio. The larger the aspect ratio, the larger the black bars should be on the screen. Even with 1.85 movies, I should see a thin black bar along the top and bottom. I worked this out to 10 pixels on the top and bottom being black.


we aren't talking about the nature of 2.35/1.85 OAR bars here. WE love OAR..:D and begging for it, HBO.....

Originally posted by vincanity
So maybe the Sony is blanking those pixels out for us rather than the projector trying to display a black bar along the top and bottom? Their mistake is in assuming HDMI will only be for video and not for PC.
Are you kidding? The black level of this and most LCD projectors is so high as to be well above what DVD black bars may introduce. Also, why should Sony only benefit us on one video resolution and not any of the others?

And here I thought the idea of a projector was to project what I was feeding it and not go through a Sony PQ committee.

HI all well i think it`s about time to upgrade maybe ????

just wanted to ask a couple of questions if you all dont mind

I have had 2 projectors in my life arhhhh lol the first was a sony hs1 and now which i still own is a sony hs10

now i`m going to demo the hs50 soon i hope to see if its worth the upgrade
and i bet your all laugh saying he will, but here are the questions.

i did not think the contrast of the Hs20 was much better than the hs10 this is why i never upgraded i always thought thay where about the same but i do have a red cr40 filter on my hs10 at the time,

1 the contrast on the hs50 do`s it blow the hs10 away and i mean by loads not just a littile not like the hs10 from the hs20 ??

2 now i never thought the 800ansi was dim on the sony hs1 and the sony hs10 was brighter, but what would you say the hs50 would be would it be as bright as

1 the sony hs1
2 the sony hs10 low mode
3 the sony hs10 high mode
4 the sony hs10 in low mod ewith ccr40 filter
5 or other please tell me lol

the thing is i have black out curtians and i only use the projector at night
but all my walls are white the carpet is cream, when there is not light in the room the room is totaly black can not see a thing at all the only light would be from the projector but when i watcha space scene the room is totalt dark but you can still see the black is not black but a light gray even when there is nothing on the screen so am i right in thinking if i get a better contrast i would get a darker black projection on the screen

i hope you can help me out on this subject as i hope i will see one this weekend

thanks all

I upgraded from the hs10 to the hs51 and am very happy. I believe the brightness level is less than the hs10 but higher than the hs10 w/cc40r filter (I also have a cc40r).

I think the optics are better on the hs51 and having vert. and horz. lens shift is great. I do, however, miss the powered zoom and focus on the hs10. Though the hs51 is not dead silent it is WAY less noisy than the hs10. I also think the hs10 was a bit sharper on hd material with its greater resolution.

The contrast on the hs10 w/cc40r is probably in the 600:1 range. You will get cr of 3000-4000:1 from the hs51. The black level difference is not subtle. You will see the dramatic difference in your light controlled room.

Originally posted by mintakaX

My hs51 will no longer sync with a 720p 60hz through the input-a. I get a frequency out of range message. The 720p signal is coming from a dvdo iscan hd+.
dan

Dan,

On the Output Setup of your Iscan HD+ check Frequency and make sure is at the 60Hz range instead of 72Hz.
I'm not at home now but I think you should follow these steps on your Iscan HD+:

Output Setup----Frequency----48Hz / 60Hz / 72Hz----60Hz----ENTER

Hope it helps,
Steve

Originally posted by srolon
Dan,

On the Output Setup of your Iscan HD+ check Frequency and make sure is at the 60Hz range instead of 72Hz.
I'm not at home now but I think you should follow these steps on your Iscan HD+:

Output Setup----Frequency----48Hz / 60Hz / 72Hz----60Hz----ENTER

Hope it helps,
Steve
Thanks Steve, I haven't checked that, but I did set it the Output--- Format to 720p 60Hz.
I'll check for Frequency when I get home.

Dan

thanks jjay

you said the "The black level difference is not subtle" so you mean theres not allot of difference in black level ?????

you see i always thought contrast was excellent on the sony hs10 with allot of light in the picture the only thing i hate was when realy dark scenes come on like space or the start of blade 2 looked washed out because of the dark gray but not black.

I know that you will not get a true black but would you say it blew the hs10 away with the filter in the black output only like a space scene or the start of blade 2

if i just project a blank picture in black its a light gray what would you say the hs50 would be

i can get my hands on one this weekend without a demo as the shop do not demo them so it would be achance to take i did demo the hs20 a year ago and i thought it was not much of a jump from the hs10 to the hs20 i thought thay where the same projector a Little bit better in contrast but i did not think it was a Hugh jump,

all i want to know is is the contrast a Hugh jump and most of all is the black space scenes much much more darker

every projector i have had has always come down to that black level could be better i want to be able to get this projector and say theres is no more contrast or black level issues

some toled me that when you look at this projector you do not thing about the black or contrast now as its excellent is this true

sorry for all the questions but this is allot of money and my friend has offered me £1000 for my hs10

Originally posted by Meridius
thanks jjay

you said the "The black level difference is not subtle" so you mean theres not allot of difference in black level ?????



Not subtle = Big Difference

Brian

finally bought a pair of cheap binoculars for $15 and it makes a world of difference in setting in that fine focus. Picture looks sharp finally and very nice.

I have just spoken to Sony's service centre in Western Australia and they advised me they have received a bulletin from Sony regarding the 720p blanking issue and that a firmware up date is available-although not actually inhand as we speak .But its issue is imminent.
I have even been given a job number!

This is my first post and I apologize for my bad English. I own an HS50 for about 8 weeks and have it connected to a crystalio-scaler.
The crystalio is able to output any resolution both analogue and digital.
in my opinion the 720p-issue isn´t really an issue.
If I connect the crystalio with the HS50 via RGB/analogue I get a pixelperfect picture. It looks great.
If I connect them digitally (DVI/HDMI) the picture is cropped and processed so that fonts are not easily be read. But with the crystalio I can scale the Image so that I get the full Image on my Screen (Resolution is about 1240x696). I think that I like the picture I then get digitally more than the analogue one because it is more "filmlike" and smoother.
So I think that Sony intented to improove the picture that way, cause the not pixelperfectness is not a problem with films and TV-material.

This is turning out to be a dream come true!

Ok, got my hdmi cable today from Blue Jean Cable, and got the sony ceiling mounted in my newly painted, light controlled room. (Black ceiling, Black wall behind screen, dark blue all other walls - room is 21 ft long and 10 ft wide) I had only opened the sony a few days ago and tried it on my new Carada screen with a svhs cable. It looked very good. Tonight, I got the hdmi cable pluggged in and viewed the sony for the first time with my new sony 975 dvd player via the hdmi. OH MY!! This is just everything I hoped for and more. The image is simply stunning, STUNNING! The hdmi cable really did make a big difference, more than I imagined it would. I fooled around a little with some of the picture settings, but even out of the box, this projector is something else. And a big thanks to David at Carada Screens. He suggested the 100 inch diag. Brilliant White and it has turned out to be a pure winner.

By the way, in auto iris and cinema mode, now that some of you have been using the sony for a while, can anyone tell me what image settings they have found to look best? (conrast, sharpness, etc...) By the way, I will be setting up my sound system tomorrow, but even without any sound, I could hardly hear the projector at all. Man is this thing quiet! I hope you are all enjoying this projector as much as I all ready am and when the sound is all set up, I bet it's going to be even better :-)

Thanks!

Larry

Originally posted by TheFerret
I used the 'thread-search' funtion and it return nothing on 'discrete' and 'codes'. Does this mean that no one is talking about discrete remote codes, or is there some common knowledge I am missing in that Sony doesn't have them or make them available?

I'm finally getting ready to setup my Pronto for the HS51 and realized that there are not discrete functions on the remote. I couldn't find any files over at RemoteCentral either. Has anyone found discrete power and input codes? I know Sony TVs often have discrete codes not included on the standard remotes and I'm hoping this is the case for the HS51 as well.

I guess I should have searched the RemoteCentral forums first instead of AVS. It appears that the standard Sony discrete projector codes work. Here are the details:

http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/mboard/rc-pronto/thread.cgi?keywords=25784

griffonalfons, welcome to the AVS forum and your English is better than a lot of Americans I know!

Please keep in mind that the 720P issue that many feel is a problem is due to the issue of it being present when not using 720P/RGB on Input-A. I, for one, believed that a digital projector and digital sources benefited the most when a digital transport is used and a digital-only condition is the result. Sure, this could mean minimal/no benefit if the source's digital output is overly-limited, but the notion is there.

I do agree the 720P/RGB is a nice input and results is a very clean transport for analog, but what happens when encrypted content is sent along the digital transport (on the sources) and the content only available in analog is limited to 480i/P? This is of concern for most in the United States where Hollywood enforces its views to the extent it drives policy and technology evolution.

So, I went over to Carl's house last night and you would normally expect me to comment on his HS51. But I have to make a comment about his lovely wife. I think she caused my jaw to drop more than the projector did. (Disclaimer: I am married with a child and have no interest in Carl's wife.... just wanted to relate these funny events):

Situation 1: She comes home and Carl tells his wife he wants to order pizza:

Normal wife: [Before husband had said this] "I don't feel like cooking, let's order pizza."
Carl's wife: "Great, I'll go upstairs and start cooking for the weekend." [Cooks some incredible chicken in wine sauce meal]

Situation 2: I ask her, "What do you think about all this HT stuff your husband is into:

Normal wife: "I'd prefer the room was empty."
Carl's wife: "Who wouldn't want this in their house!?"

Situation 3: I brought beer over.

Normal wife: ... [no response]
Carl's wife: [While drinking a beer] You not only brought beer, you brought excellent beer! Did you know I brew my own beer?"

Situation 4: I suggest we go watch some Lord of the Rings

Normal wife: "OK, don't turn it up too loud."
Carl's wife: "Oooh ooh, wait for me!"

Originally posted by reaper
So, I went over to Carl's house last night and you would normally expect me to comment on his HS51. But I have to make a comment about his lovely wife. I think she caused my jaw to drop more than the projector did. (Disclaimer: I am married with a child and have no interest in Carl's wife.... just wanted to relate these funny events):

Situation 1: She comes home and Carl tells his wife he wants to order pizza:

Normal wife: [Before husband had said this] "I don't feel like cooking, let's order pizza."
Carl's wife: "Great, I'll go upstairs and start cooking for the weekend." [Cooks some incredible chicken in wine sauce meal]

Situation 2: I ask her, "What do you think about all this HT stuff your husband is into:

Normal wife: "I'd prefer the room was empty."
Carl's wife: "Who wouldn't want this in their house!?"

Situation 3: I brought beer over.

Normal wife: ... [no response]
Carl's wife: [While drinking a beer] You not only brought beer, you brought excellent beer! Did you know I brew my own beer?"

Situation 4: I suggest we go watch some Lord of the Rings

Normal wife: "OK, don't turn it up too loud."
Carl's wife: "Oooh ooh, wait for me!"
So, when will you be plotting to knock Carl off for his wife? :D

Haha... hey, I put a clear disclaimer in my original post!

Originally posted by mintakaX
Thanks Steve, I haven't checked that, but I did set it the Output--- Format to 720p 60Hz.
I'll check for Frequency when I get home.

Dan

Dan, sorry you need to go to "Frame rate conversion", not "frequency", on the Output Setup and make sure your input source is locked at 60Hz. Let me know if it works. If it doesn't I recommend you to use the "factory default" on the "Configuration Control" menu. Good luck!
Steve

Disclaimers are to legally cover your butt against the DA. BTW, pictures are everything.

Ur terrible! :P~

So.... ANYWAYS...

The point of the visit was... really... to see the HS51. Carlton is constructing a nice room in the basement with complete light control. I was surprised to see a 123" diagonal FireHawk on the wall... a very large screen!

So, I was wondering how the HS51 would do on a screen this large. Carl tells me that his screen has a 1.3 gain.

We started by watching some of "The Matrix". Overall, the picture seemed to be dim in most situations. It was still enjoyable with the lights off though.

Then we watched some Toy Story 2 and it was obviously much easier to watch. I thought the star scene at the beginning looked pretty darn good. I was happy with it and never found myself thinking that blacked looked more like grey. It never even crossed my mind actually.

After some pizza and beer, we went back downstairs for some Return of the King and some Fellowship of the Ring. We watched some of the shelob scene in the first and the Mines of Moria in the second.

I thought that this movie looked, by far, the best that we had seen. Despite the fact that these were "dark" scenes, I never felt as though I were looking at a dim image. It looked spectacular overall. The image looked smooth and the colors were great.

Seeing this one movie on it convinced me that this unit can produce a great picture and the dim look of The Matrix was more associated with the source material than it was the projector.

The unit was plenty quiet and looked great on the chief mount.

So, I left feeling confident again that this is the projector for me. But just to be sure, I wanted to check how the brightness would look on my goo screen. It has much less gain but is smaller... 92" diagonal.

If I can trust the 521 lumens number reported by WSR, I get these numbers:

His screen had about 14.33 ftL. My screen would have about 17.71 ftL. So, mine would be brighter than his. If I changed it out for a simple B.O. cloth with no goo, I could get a unit gain and get up to 20.84. This is assuming thet B.O. cloth has a gain of 1. If I were to get a Carada screen, I'd probably consider the Brilliant White with a gain of 1.4 and a slightly larger image... maybe 100". So, that would give me 24.7ftL.

Anyways, I feel pretty good about this projector for brightness and this is in low lamp mode with the iris on.

The other consideration was screen door. I finally noticed it once when I was looking for it and it was a very bright scene. I couldn't really see it very clearly but almost subtly noticed its effect during this scene and some panning. My assesment is that it's not something to even consider as an issue. It would never, ever distract me from enjoying a movie.

Well, thanks Carlton for allowing me to come over and check out the theater room. It was great to see it in someone's home and you're going to have a great room there when it's all finished! Very cool.

reaper

Very cool. I have this PJ on order through Sony and they are saying a few weeks max. I am coupling it with a 65" diagonal Stewart Studiotek 130. I know that is a small screen size but I have three matched front speakers that are about 4' high and I am not going to get rid of them. My room is only about 15 ft deep so moving the screen forward is not an option either. Still plenty big since I am sitting only about 10' back. If you have been in my room you would understand the audio situation and I am not going to compromise. By carpet is a medium blue and I am going to paint the walls using the reference 18% gray from Kodak. So it will be pretty dark for walls and ceiling, but not black. The room is 100% light controlled at any time during the day so that is not an issue.

Darinp is going to come over and help tweak it in. We are going to experiment with some filters and do measurements with a Colorfacts off the screen. I also plan on experimenting with the PJ by sending it a 720P/60 signal via HDMI directly from the Denon DVD-5910. I also plan on trying it through the iScan HD+ at 720P/48hz to see if we like that. Last up, I am getting a DVI to VGA converter from Gefen and will experiment with that to Input A as well. Since the PJ is backordered right now I am hoping that when a unit is finally available it will already have the firmware fix for the blanking.

Anyone in the Washington area that wants to look at this when it is installed is more then welcome. I live across the sound from Seattle in Bremerton.

Originally posted by Kris Deering
Very cool. I have this PJ on order through Sony and they are saying a few weeks max. I am coupling it with a 65" diagonal Stewart Studiotek 130. I know that is a small screen size but I have three matched front speakers that are about 4' high and I am not going to get rid of them. My room is only about 15 ft deep so moving the screen forward is not an option either. Still plenty big since I am sitting only about 10' back. If you have been in my room you would understand the audio situation and I am not going to compromise. By carpet is a medium blue and I am going to paint the walls using the reference 18% gray from Kodak. So it will be pretty dark for walls and ceiling, but not black. The room is 100% light controlled at any time during the day so that is not an issue.

Darinp is going to come over and help tweak it in. We are going to experiment with some filters and do measurements with a Colorfacts off the screen. I also plan on experimenting with the PJ by sending it a 720P/60 signal via HDMI directly from the Denon DVD-5910. I also plan on trying it through the iScan HD+ at 720P/48hz to see if we like that. Last up, I am getting a DVI to VGA converter from Gefen and will experiment with that to Input A as well. Since the PJ is backordered right now I am hoping that when a unit is finally available it will already have the firmware fix for the blanking.

Anyone in the Washington area that wants to look at this when it is installed is more then welcome. I live across the sound from Seattle in Bremerton.


Holy crap!

Originally posted by ay221
finally bought a pair of cheap binoculars for $15 and it makes a world of difference in setting in that fine focus. Picture looks sharp finally and very nice.

LOL - a pair of binoculars :D
That was a really fun way to solve the problem.
Thats a new approach to the problem with manual focus :D

Otherwise you could allways ask a friend to adjust while you check the focus out close up to the screen ;)

But at least now you have a pair of binocs - you could allways check out ladies passing by on the street or soemthing :D
If they be fine ask em up for a movie :)

Regards
BL

Originally posted by srolon
Dan, sorry you need to go to "Frame rate conversion", not "frequency", on the Output Setup and make sure your input source is locked at 60Hz. Let me know if it works. If it doesn't I recommend you to use the "factory default" on the "Configuration Control" menu. Good luck!
Steve
Thanks Steve, I'll try it.
Dan

Originally posted by Kris Deering
Very cool. I have this PJ on order through Sony and they are saying a few weeks max. I am coupling it with a 65" diagonal Stewart Studiotek 130. I know that is a small screen size but I have three matched front speakers that are about 4' high and I am not going to get rid of them. My room is only about 15 ft deep so moving the screen forward is not an option either. Still plenty big since I am sitting only about 10' back. If you have been in my room you would understand the audio situation and I am not going to compromise. By carpet is a medium blue and I am going to paint the walls using the reference 18% gray from Kodak. So it will be pretty dark for walls and ceiling, but not black. The room is 100% light controlled at any time during the day so that is not an issue.

Darinp is going to come over and help tweak it in. We are going to experiment with some filters and do measurements with a Colorfacts off the screen. I also plan on experimenting with the PJ by sending it a 720P/60 signal via HDMI directly from the Denon DVD-5910. I also plan on trying it through the iScan HD+ at 720P/48hz to see if we like that. Last up, I am getting a DVI to VGA converter from Gefen and will experiment with that to Input A as well. Since the PJ is backordered right now I am hoping that when a unit is finally available it will already have the firmware fix for the blanking.

Anyone in the Washington area that wants to look at this when it is installed is more then welcome. I live across the sound from Seattle in Bremerton.

I recently requested screen material samples from Stewart FilmScreen and based on my samples the only screen material for me would be the StudioTek130. The FireHawk is way to dark for me. When comparing these side by side the StudioTek is the clear winner. IMHO

Kris, is there any way for you to request from sony that your hs51 has the blanking issue fixed before they ship it? I am still not sure how much this fix will help--I am hoping that the fix includes the full pass through mode as on the Input A. If they just get rid of the blanking but still do some processing on the hdmi I'm not sure how great a solution that is.

I am also interested on getting your and darins input on the hs51. Unlike on my hs10, I see no fpn on the hs51 and the optics seem very good. Since brightness will not be a factor for your screen size, I think you will have great results in using filters. I am curious how much extra you two will be able to get out of the hs51.

I have asked Sony about ensuring the fix is in, but the people I deal with for those kind of requests really don't know much about that stuff so it is a shot in the dark.

I think Darin and I will be able to really dial this thing in. I have been tempted to ask Guy Kuo over as well as he can sometimes do some VERY cool stuff with PJs.

Originally posted by Kris Deering
Very cool.
1.
I have this PJ on order through Sony and they are saying a few weeks max.

2.
Darinp is going to come over and help tweak it in. We are going to experiment with some filters and do measurements with a Colorfacts off the screen. I also plan on experimenting with the PJ by sending it a 720P/60 signal via HDMI directly from the Denon DVD-5910. I also plan on trying it through the iScan HD+ at 720P/48hz to see if we like that. Last up, I am getting a DVI to VGA converter from Gefen and will experiment with that to Input A as well. Since the PJ is backordered right now I am hoping that when a unit is finally available it will already have the firmware fix for the blanking.

3.
Anyone in the Washington area that wants to look at this when it is installed is more then welcome. I live across the sound from Seattle in Bremerton.

1. Why not just tell the you are Kris D and they'll probably get it for you in a snap. I feel extremely pleased to see that You have choosen this PJ - then it cant be a bad choice and I am hoping to get some valuable info from you rigoruos tweak session :)
My PJ should have arrived by now but is being post poned every now and then.

2. Some serious testing here and I think everyone agrees when i say "we cant wait for the results"

3. If one only lived in the US :'-( I bet you guys will have a ball tweaking this PJ till it burns :)


Regards
Boogieman

1. I don't have quite that much clout. Maybe with some DVD manufacturers, but not Sony. They said a few weeks, so I'll be patient.

2. I will put up a post on our results for you guys to enjoy. Maybe even some pics if I can!

Guys,
Having followed Bytehovens advice, I contacted Sony Europe on the HDMI blanking issue and have just received this email in reply;

Dear Mr Butler

Thank you for your e-mail.

The latest information we have been able to get from Europe regarding the
Blanking issue is listed below.

"A fix to reduce the amount of blanking experienced is just being finalised
and should be available by the middle of next week. The work has to be done by the Pencoed Technical Centre. As the customers are not able to send there units directly to them. The projector should be returned via the supplying retailer."

Following on from this information please return the projector to the
supplying retailer and they can get in touch with the Pencoed Technical
Centre and make the arrangements directly for you.

I hope this information helps.

With regards

{name deleted - not sure if I can post it or not}
For and on behalf of
Sony United Kingdom Limited

RESULT!!!
Paul

Bytehoven

Can you also test to see if the PJ handles a 1 to 1 pixel map properly now? There has been mention that the HDMI input was not showing the clean on/off signal like the VGA was. It would be appreciated.

Thanks Byte. I am always skeptical as well when I hear reports. I will definately chime in once this thing is in place.

Originally posted by Bytehoven
Update fixes 720p

My HS-51 was just dropped of by Fed Ex. It made an overnight trip to Sony, and they sent the projector back to me via over night.

The cropping of the 720p signal has been fixed. I have been able to test both the HDMI and RCA-Component inputs with a 720p signal from my Motorola 6208 HDTV cable tuner. The image now fills the screen completely, just like other resolutions.

I can not longer test the VGA input, as I sold my Iscan HD.

All of my original settings remain intact, so I do not have to go back and redo any of my white balance or picture controls.

The software now reads:

Rom 01.02/11.01
SC Rom 01.02
IP Rom 01.02

I did not make note of what the rom versions were before the update. This info is available under the FACTORY MENU -> INFORMATION MENU.

I have not yet made any comparisons of new 720p & 1080i. I will do so in the days to come.

The Laredo, Texas Sony site is supposed to be the only site that will handle the update. Folks should contact Sony customer service and request a work order and shipping info for the Laredo site. My projector was updated in San Jose by one of the techs working on the update, but they will not be taking any more projectors at that site, only Laredo, Tx.

A service bulletin is supposed to make it's way to the Sony customer service channel, but until it does, the Sony support people will most likely be unaware of the 720p update solution. You will have to steer the conversation, requesting the work order for Laredo. This should change, and hopefully I will be able to post a reference # for the service bulletin very soon.

Sony took care of the shipping on my projector return, both ways. I'm not sure if Sony customer service is going to cover shipping both ways. I am trying to clear this up as well.

My projector suffered no ill effects as far as convergence, from the round trip, cross country shipping.

It is my understanding the HS-51 production line is being updated to included this 720p update, but I don't yet have any additional info. Perhaps this is why there is a back order on the projector.

I'll post more info as it becomes available. My thanks go out to Sony for their efforts.

Wow that's great news! Too bad you sold your iScan. I am very much interested in the HDMI picture quality compared to INPUT_A VGA. I wonder if the update just removes the cropping and the signal is still processed resulting in text not being as clear as VGA Input_A.

I probably will not bother with the update if only the cropping has been resolved. Hopefully someone can check this out soon.

Originally posted by Bytehoven
Hi Kris...

I am interested in seeing what you reports, because I did not share the observations made by others regarding HDMI and 1:1 mapping. I thought the 720p checkerboard from the Iscan via HDMI was extremely clean and artifact free. The Iscan 720p VGA-RGB signal required some signal adjustment to clear up banding and noise, but I still thing the HDMI signal was cleaner. So, I am eager to read your comments after you calibrate and review the HS-51.

Byte, I appreciate your work on the 720p issue!

Regarding your above comment though, I think you are possibly the only person who shares this view. I know myself and a couple of other Atlanta area guys really have been wondering if you are on crack ;) or that Iscan does something magical because the HS51 truly butchers the signal it gets which is very apparent in pixel patterns, text, etc. from the htpc.

Brian

Cine4home just posted a new EMP-TW200, Hitachi PJ-TX100, Panasonic PT-AE700, Sanyo PLV-Z3, Sony VPL-HS50 comparison at http://www.online-translator.com/url/tran_url.asp?lang=en&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cine4home.de%2F&direction=ge&template=General&cp1=NO&cp2=NO&autotranslate=on&transliterate=on&psubmit2.x=40&psubmit2.y=13

Edit- blast! Translated page is too big, try http://www.cine4home.de/ if you hit the same problem, even in German the results tables are easy to follow.
Paul

babelfish worked... for once!

Originally posted by reaper
babelfish worked... for once!

Blimey! You're right, Babelfish worked - well spotted reaper!

Hmm, just noticed this on the Cine4home comparison, they say that - "The Sony VPL-HS50 achieves a maximum contrast relationship of 6000:1, color calibrated still approximately 3000:1" which implies that you can have maximum contrast or colour calibration but not both. I thought that the 6000:1 contrast ratio that was acheived was at D65?

Paul

Originally posted by Paul Butler
I thought that the 6000:1 contrast ratio that was acheived was at D65?

Paul

Most likely, based on my own findings, it was somewhere in the D75-D93 range. I can get north of 4000:1 without a filter at D75.

Brian

Wow, this is good news, and thank you Byte for helping out here. Who else was it that said Sony was working on a fix.

Thanks for the info Byte and also you from UK.
Now it will probably just be a matter of weeks / months before it reaches lill Sweden :-S

Probably thats why customer support said that shipment was stopped then :)

Regards
Boogie

Originally posted by Paul Butler
Cine4home just posted a new EMP-TW200, Hitachi PJ-TX100, Panasonic PT-AE700, Sanyo PLV-Z3, Sony VPL-HS50 comparison at http://www.online-translator.com/url/tran_url.asp?lang=en&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cine4home.de%2F&direction=ge&template=General&cp1=NO&cp2=NO&autotranslate=on&transliterate=on&psubmit2.x=40&psubmit2.y=13

Edit- blast! Translated page is too big, try http://www.cine4home.de/ if you hit the same problem, even in German the results tables are easy to follow.
Paul

My IE 6 reader just says "size of page is too large" ????
What is that ??

Confusing
Boogie

Same here, Boogie.

Originally posted by Bytehoven
Update fixes 720p

The software now reads:

Rom 01.02/11.01
SC Rom 01.02
IP Rom 01.02

Thanks Bytehoven for investing all the time to get this issue fixed. For comparison, here are the firmware numbers for my HS-51, shipped around Nov 25, 2004.

ROM Version 01.01/11.01
SC ROM Version 01.01
IP ROM Version 01.02

Any word yet on whether you are seeing 1:1 pixel mapping over hdmi at 720p now?

Originally posted by TheFerret
Wow, this is good news, and thank you Byte for helping out here. Who else was it that said Sony was working on a fix.

That would be me :). In fact, my projector is still in Laredo.

After speaking with my agent, my hs51 was found to have an additional problem. The parts needed for the fix are backordered for now so I will be on hold a few more days.

I encourage others to send in their hs51 to Sony for the fix as well. However, do NOT send your projector to Grundy's Lane Service center in PA. It has to go to Laredo as I've said since day 1. You should all have this masking problem fixed, right now in fact.

-Steven

hi all how do you check the rom version is it just in the menu or a secret menu i have not got this projector ywt but if i demo it iw ant to know whta version rom it is so i know it is fixed

thanks all shame i could have one today as i know one shop has it but thay had it for 4 weeks so theres no way it has the new rom

also the shop i get alot of my stuff from has not had any in yet thay said it should of had 3 units 2 weeks ago so it looks like sony might be updating them all

i have a sony hs10 and my mate wants it for £1000 and the new hs50 is about £1800 to £2000 would you say its worht the upgrade ??????

Meridius,
You can buy the Sony for £1599 in the UK (from reputable dealers). I had an HS20 for a while. The upgrade from the HS20 to the HS50 overall is not great, you lose a few feature and gain others but the difference in contrast between the 2 pj's is substantial when viewing the right material. Is it worth an extra £600? I think it is.
Paul

Originally posted by larsil
This is turning out to be a dream come true!

Ok, got my hdmi cable today from Blue Jean Cable... Tonight, I got the hdmi cable pluggged in and viewed the sony for the first time with my new sony 975 dvd player via the hdmi. OH MY!! This is just everything I hoped for and more. The image is simply stunning, STUNNING! The hdmi cable really did make a big difference, more than I imagined it would.



Has anyone tried a 30 foot or longer HDMI cable from Blue Jean Cable or somewhere else that has reasonable prices for similar lengths? I'm about to order one and want to make sure I get the best one for the best price for this projector. I also want to be sure that HDMI over such length is still a significant upgrade over component.

Thanks...

alohamart,

I just got a 23 foot hdmi cable from Blue Jeans. Works great. I just hooked up my hs51 a few days ago. I didn't have a component cable but I did have a svhs on the first day and hdmi is certainly makes a big difference.

Originally posted by alohamart
Has anyone tried a 30 foot or longer HDMI cable from Blue Jean Cable or somewhere else that has reasonable prices for similar lengths?
I got a 23 foot "Rev 2" HDMI cable from RAM Electronics (forum sponsor, see link at top). I haven't seen any problems, looks the same as the 6 foot HDMI cable I was using before I got it. It is a thick cable that appears to be well made, with lengths up to 50 feet.

Originally posted by Meridius
hi all how do you check the rom version is it just in the menu or a secret menu i have not got this projector ywt but if i demo it iw ant to know whta version rom it is so i know it is fixed
To see the ROM version you must first enter the service menu (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4862442#post4862442). On the remote click ENTER, ENTER, UP, DOWN, ENTER, then UP when prompted. Then click the MENU button and scroll down to the Information screen.

Question for Bytehoven. Have you checked the overscan at 720P since getting the fix? Since Sony has a reputation for excessive overscan, I'm wondering if part of the fix involves scaling the image up so that there is overscan. This might provide a clue as to whether or not it is doing 1x1 pixel mapping. If there is no overscan, then this would be the only HDMI and Component input resolution that has none.

Originally posted by Bytehoven
Fine.

I'll leave it to you & your buddies to follow thru on any additional info from Sony.

Adios AVS.

Jesus Byte, did you not see the wink? Lighten up man I was joking...

Brian

I think he was joking, too, Brian.

paul butler

you said "difference in contrast between the 2 pj's is substantial when viewing the right material" would not all films benifit from the high contrast

i have had the sony hs1 and sony hs10 which i have now and the only thing that lets it down is contrast

i am not bothered at all for the options there are only tt things that bother me

1, contrast want to be able to watch a film on a projector without thinking that could do better with better black levels or contrast every film i watch i think that looks washed out in dark scenes

2. fan sound level

3 picture quality

as long as the picture quality is just as good as my hs10 or better great, as long as the sound level of the fan is lower great, as long as most inportant that the dark scenes in films like "space" is a very deep black and not a deep gray i will be happy

just hope the hs50 will fullfill all of that at least i know it do`s in the fan part

i hope someone here can let me know if the picture is just as good or not better thatn the hs10

and that the contrast and dark space scenes are much more darker that the hs 10 and hs 20 as i was not inprest with the hs20 over my hs10 thats why i did not upgrade

thasnk all

Thus begins the inevitable quandary... order one immediately and send it in for the fix or wait for them to fill the channel???

One way or another this probably closes the book on whether or not I order an HS51.

I went to my dealer this morning to see the HS50 first hand. I explained to him yesterday the problem over HDMI with a computer and he was very interested in seeing it himself, so he asked me to bring in my computer.

I took my HTPC with me and first we checked out input 1. At first it was weird, but then we realized it has to be set to computer. After that, we could see the whole 1280x720 desktop. I had set that test pattern that someone had posted, showing alternating black and white pixels, as my desktop. Everything looked sharp. I went up close and noticed the pixels looked more like circular squares than squares. Definetely different from the Epson Cinema 500.

Next up was the HDMI input. It looked downright terrible. There was the cropping that everyone mentions (about half of the start menu was gone). There is some sort of horizontal/vertical adjustment available in HDMI, but it just moves the desktop around. Move the desktop up and you can see the whole taskbar, but you lose even more at the top.

As for the alternating pixels, they were grey. Some processing definitely going on there. Brining up a menu by right clicking showed blurry letters. Yuck!

I tried out some movies and they didn't look as sharp as they did on the Cinema 500. No doubt the HDMI processing is the cause of that.

As for black levels, the projector is plenty black alright. However, I couldn't see shadow detail. I put the scene on in Spiderman when he goes after Ben's killer, climbing the walls. I couldn't really make out the brick wall. The dealer adjusted the iris setting (set to maximize light output) and then I could see the detail in that scene.

Maybe the projector just wasn't set up properly with the iris on auto. The blacks were nice, but I like to see what I'm looking at. While blacks are deeper, I didn't think it was a whole lot better than the Cinema 500. I probably could have jacked up the black level on the Cinema 500 at the cost of shadow detail.

I did notice screen door more on this projector than the Cineam 500.

I didn't buy the projector today. I asked my dealer to enquire about the firmware upgrade with Sony of Canada. If there is a fix, I'll probably buy it. I certainly can't buy it knowing and seeing what it currently does with the HDMI inputs.

I did try out some windows WMV high def clips from my computer. Parts of Coral Reef, where they are underwater, didn't look that good due to lack of detail mentioned above. I sure hope it was because the projector wasn't setup right with the iris on auto. The dealer isn't what I would call a videophile.

I also noticed sometimes the picture would turn blueish. We finally traced it to the actual connection to the computer's DVI port. Wiggling it caused the color to go from normal to blueish and back and forth. Don't know why it was doing that. It never did that with the Epson. I don't think my DVI port on the video card is loose. That was a weird phenomenon.

As with everyone else, I'm dying to know if the firmware upgrade now gives 1:1 pixel mapping over HDMI. And if we could get a hold of the service bulletin number, that would help greatly in talking to Sony service.

vincanity,
720p issue is not ONLY from HTPC, what did you tell him about hdmi 720p from a PC?? :D It makes no different than others 720p sources except VGA in.

You didn't mention how you calibrate your pc and what SW you use but reading from you post, you didn't change the setting for wmv hd and dvd?? That's probably not the best way to show off your HTPC

For instance, one uses zoomplayer + {ffdshow,intervideo, VMR9, YV12 out for DVD} +{intervideo+OpenSource Mpeg Splitter+Ac3 for transport file}

With DVD playback, I have to change video level out wth 16-235 in ffdshow to get full bars showing DVE gray pattern, then basic calibrate with THX shadow pattern and Avia to get BTB. Do i have details i never seen on my old panny 500U??? Day and Night, bro. It so much pleasure to watch dark movie. It doesnt get any closer to 10K:1 CRT projector but it won't embarrass a LCD projector either.

With transport file, you need to readjust all the video setting again. Same rule applys on WMV HD. There aren't much usefull HD pattern out there, i use my eyes for it.....:D, poor man basic calibration.

You said you can't get much details with HS51, scene too dark?? perhaps the settings weren't right. I believe your 500 is one hell of machine but if you have the basic covered on hs51, it should at least close to the 500. ...or twice better......easy. I don't remember reading any surpising good CR report with cinema 500.

i was with a friend demo iscan hd+ compare my htpc in local HT store. We left with impression that iscan hd+ is not worth 1.5k for HTPC user but i guess your dealer think otherwise.

Picture shown vga input a computer mode without blanking.

http://danator.com/img/vga_720p.jpg

Picture shown vga input a video mode with blanking

http://danator.com/img/vga_720p_video.jpg

Its even worse if you use the classic Windows theme as the Start button is even smaller. And for someone not using desktop icons (I prefer quick launch icons) it can be annoying. But, there is a fix, which is cool.

I am curious about the 1:1 mapping. I hooked up a Denon DVD-5910 via HDMI and set the output to 720P and used the resolution pattern from the new AVIA Pro and it showed 1:1 mapping in both the horizantal and vertical plane. This pattern has two strips on it specifically for this and they looked perfect??? The blanking was obvious though on the sides and top and bottom. Are you guys sure that the lack of 1:1 hasn't been a resolution issue with the source device? Realize that to display 1:1 your source device has to be perfect with 6.75 MHz material since that is what is used. Do you get the same blurring affect with a circular 6.75Mhz patch???

Does anyone use the Stewart UltraMatte 150 screen material for this Sony projector..?

Would this look ok..? Or should I just get a new firehawk screen ?

Thanks,
F.

Hi Kris , do you mean that using 5910 hdmi to HS50 hdmi is a perfect 1:1 mapping even without upgrading the new firmware? I am anxious to know because I may be buying the 5910 and HS50 too :-)

Kris, perception is everything and with the blanking it could easily offer a condition that is perceived to be perfect. I do not trust my eyes and use a good old fashion tape measure--even string works here. But, I presume you can tell us what you compared the HDMI results to, right? I hope you compared the results to a 720P/RGB from a computer.

I think I have mentioned before that even with the HDMI issue causing obvious changes to the desktop for the worse compared with VGA, when I play a movie I would be hard pressed to say the VGA one was better. In fact, I think I prefer the HDMI picture, especially after doing calibrations of grayscale. Out of the box, the hdmi grayscale, brightness, gamma, etc., seemed to be more off.

So, bottom line is I cannot wait to see what it will look like if they fixed the blanking and processing of 720p.

Brian

I agree, but then again I've also mentioned to you my observation on what appeared to me as an HDMI processing was probably to smooth the image to make it more film-like. Its intention, IMO, and no doubt would be preferred over the harsh or coarse nature of pure RGB on a dogotal display.

Originally posted by TheFerret
I agree, but then again I've also mentioned to you my observation on what appeared to me as an HDMI processing was probably to smooth the image to make it more film-like. Its intention, IMO, and no doubt would be preferred over the harsh or coarse nature of pure RGB on a dogotal display.

Well beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I absolutely love the pure RGB look of my display.

My favorite setup for DirectvHD Tv:
Hughes DirectvHD via HDMI --> iScanHD+ ---> Output VGA at 720p

DVD viewing...
480i ---> iScanHD+ ---> Output VGA at 720p

Just equipped the iScanHD+ with SDI input module and will be purchasing very soon DVD player with SDI output.

Originally posted by TheFerret
I agree, but then again I've also mentioned to you my observation on what appeared to me as an HDMI processing was probably to smooth the image to make it more film-like. Its intention, IMO, and no doubt would be preferred over the harsh or coarse nature of pure RGB on a dogotal display.

Did you ever notice SDE when viewing through HDMI input? I guess it depends on how far back you sit and how focused the lens is. But my question still stands...

Did you notice SDE at all on the hs51, and if so, was HDMI showing less SDE than VGA-input.

Thanks;)

p.s. I'd love to experiment on this but my hs51 is still in Laredo getting fixed.

Originally posted by gdemott
Well beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I absolutely love the pure RGB look of my display.

My favorite setup for DirectvHD Tv:
Hughes DirectvHD via HDMI --> iScanHD+ ---> Output VGA at 720p

DVD viewing...
480i ---> iScanHD+ ---> Output VGA at 720p

Just equipped the iScanHD+ with SDI input module and will be purchasing very soon DVD player with SDI output.

I would really prefer an HD+ with SDI-out so I can connect it to my Panny plasma.

Which DVD player are you looking at with SDI-out? I'm assuming you will be getting it modded for SDI-out...

More........... so they stop asking WTH is the 720p blanking issues..

Picture shown vga input a computer mode 720P without blanking.

http://danator.com/img/vga_720p2.jpg

Picture shown HDMI 720p input with blanking.

http://danator.com/img/hdmi_720p2.jpg

Picture shown HDMI 720p closeup. Noticed the texts, blurrrr yeah?

http://danator.com/img/hdmi_720p4.jpg

Picture shown VGA input a closeup. Both shot with camera adjust to manual focus, same settings.

http://danator.com/img/vga_720p4.jpg


[Edit, corrected typo and changed close up picture]

Originally posted by Rieper
I would really prefer an HD+ with SDI-out so I can connect it to my Panny plasma.

Which DVD player are you looking at with SDI-out? I'm assuming you will be getting it modded for SDI-out...

I have not decided yet on the DVD player. SDI out modifed players should all have about the same picture quality regardless of cost. JVB digital sells the Pioneer Elite 45A for $999. Basically you are getting a $300-$400 player with $600 worth of modifications. $450 for the SDI modification and $150 for region free mod.

This player suffers from Chroma Bug but the iScan can automatically correct for the error. I am also considering a Pioneer Elite 59avi and doing the SDI modification.

See, you hardly any position shifting with vga and hdmi. If any, would be my camera stand..:D. I for one anxious to see if the fix does pass tho 1:1 mapping without the 'processing'.

Originally posted by Jason Yeo
Hi Kris , do you mean that using 5910 hdmi to HS50 hdmi is a perfect 1:1 mapping even without upgrading the new firmware? I am anxious to know because I may be buying the 5910 and HS50 too :-)

1:1 pixel mapping is different then the overscan issue. I definately saw the overscan/blanking issue using an overscan test pattern. But I was seeing 1:1 pixel mapping as far as resolution at 720P. When I get one in I will do some further testing. I have an iScan HD+ so I can compare 720P via VGA to 720P via HDMI. Guess I'll just have to wait and see.

Excellent posts zeroendless.

Thanks, Brian

Can you do the A-B with some content?

Great pictures zeroendless. This is exactly what I see switching between Input A and HDMI with my HTPC. I also could not see any significant difference when viewing DVDs, but the difference is very distinct with the Windows desktop, even from 1.5 screen widths back.

It is interesting that people using devices other than HTPC connected to HDMI are reporting 1:1 pixel mapping. So far I don't think anybody as reported 1:1 via HDMI from a HTPC. I have read that HDMI supports different video formats. Maybe it is only the DVI/RGB->HDMI from a PC that is being smoothed.

I'm curious how you can test 1:1 from a DVD player using the Avia Pro DVD, which is limited to 720x480. How could it have a test pattern for 1:1 pixel mapping at 1280x720? What does it look like and how does it work?

Also wondering about the Iscan. A couple of people have reported 1:1 over HDMI using it's built in test patterns. What kind of test patterns are they? How do you tell if its 1:1?

The DVDO uses a gride that is exactly one pixel on one pixel off. If it doesn't do 1:1 then it is just a blur or it has a strange interference pattern like look to it.

AVIA Pro has a test pattern that has pixel spacing at exactly 6.75Mhz which is the upper limit of DVD. When you scale up to 720P, it still represents one on one off so it is a reliable test.

I wonder if the HTPC isn't a lot of the reason you're seeing what you are. I imagine that via the VGA output you are seeing greater then 8 bit of signal. Most of you are probably using a lot higher then 256 for your output. But via DVI that is all you get because DVI is 8 bit RGB. When I go out of my DVD-5910 it is TRUE HDMI and 10 bit in the YCbCr mode. So your PC may be scaling down which is why it doesn't look as crisp. It is hard to say though without being there to test. I think I'll have to do an A/B test with the iScan. Using their pixel mapping test pattern I'll test the DVI output and the VGA output and just switch between the two at 720P. This should give me the best idea. I'll also compare it to the HDMI output of the Denon.

interesting...

My old Panny 500U and DVi and Vga input makes no different via HTPC, crystal sharp on both can be........ and i can't think of pc could be the cause of it and can't ever start to think VGA is much superior than DVI. How much bit rate video DAC should not introduce this...[edit] The DVI / HDMI bit rate rounding error is not applied with what we seeing here

The smoothen effect is not only observed via 720p hdmi, but vga in video mode, component in video mode (vga>component breakout cable). You have any pc source to get vga in to iscan? pixel front are much easy to tell than pattern.

Originally posted by zeroendless
vincanity,

You didn't mention how you calibrate your pc and what SW you use but reading from you post, you didn't change the setting for wmv hd and dvd?? That's probably not the best way to show off your HTPC

For instance, one uses zoomplayer + {ffdshow,intervideo, VMR9, YV12 out for DVD} +{intervideo+OpenSource Mpeg Splitter+Ac3 for transport file}

With DVD playback, I have to change video level out wth 16-235 in ffdshow to get full bars showing DVE gray pattern, then basic calibrate with THX shadow pattern and Avia to get BTB. Do i have details i never seen on my old panny 500U??? Day and Night, bro. It so much pleasure to watch dark movie. It doesnt get any closer to 10K:1 CRT projector but it won't embarrass a LCD projector either.



I'm obviously not in the same class as you in terms of HTPC setup. I just use ATI's DVD playback software (I think it's called multimedia center). No other special software. The card is the All In Wonder 9800 Pro.

Anyways, I was able to confirm what I was reading here. I'll update everyone on what Sony Canada tells my dealer.

Originally posted by alohamart
Has anyone tried a 30 foot or longer HDMI cable from Blue Jean Cable or somewhere else that has reasonable prices for similar lengths? I'm about to order one and want to make sure I get the best one for the best price for this projector. I also want to be sure that HDMI over such length is still a significant upgrade over component.

Thanks...

Yes I have the 30ft HDMI and 30ft Component cables from BJC and they work just fine.

Originally posted by Kevin152
Yes I have the 30ft HDMI and 30ft Component cables from BJC and they work just fine.

I just ordered a 30 foot HDMI to HDMI cable from Ram Electronics.
I have been concerned with the length I have to run my cable. I don't want pic degradation because of it. Makes me feel better to hear yours is working well.

Craig:)

My dealer gave me an update. He called a few of his Sony contacts and none of them had heard of a firmware update.

Until we get a service bulletin number, I don't think there will be much luck in communicating this with the Sony drones who receive calls.

I e-mailed a message to Sony of Canada headquarters, with links to this thread. The response I got was to call some generic pre-sales questions phone line. I called them and they couldn't even grasp the problem, let alone check if there is a fix for it.

Guess I'll just continue to wait for a fix. I might look into a Marantz VP-12S3. I hear rainbows are almost non-existant on that.

Or maybe I'll just wait until the fall. Hopefully there'll be some projectors out with the Dream 5 panels.

Originally posted by vincanity
Guess I'll just continue to wait for a fix. I might look into a Marantz VP-12S3. I hear rainbows are almost non-existant on that.

Or maybe I'll just wait until the fall. Hopefully there'll be some projectors out with the Dream 5 panels.

You are talking about a totally different ballgame as compared with this under $3500 forum.

Interestingly, I understand though that Marantz also has some blanking issues with 720p.

Brian

Originally posted by vincanity
Guess I'll just continue to wait for a fix. I might look into a Marantz VP-12S3. I hear rainbows are almost non-existant on that.


Vincanity,

You might want to also consider the Sharp 11k/12K. For one you may find better deals on it. It is a very flexible unit (you can set the iris according to your needs), you can adjust virtually everything about it. Drop a pm to darinp2. He has owned one since its release and is quite familiar with them.

PS. I think Brian is correct, the Marants S3 also seem to share the Sony's blanking issue at 720p.

Cheers,
Raul

Byte,

Very pleased to hear that the firmware upgrade solves (I think) the 720P blanking issue. I was following your thread with interest, and it seems its gone cold. Does anyone know the recommended process to return the HS51 for the upgrade at Sony? Call Sony tech support? I assume not through the seller?

I'll be leaving on a long business trip in a week and that would be an ideal time to have the unit upgraded.

Thanks,

Chuck

Originally posted by Raul GS
Vincanity,

You might want to also consider the Sharp 11k/12K. For one you may find better deals on it. It is a very flexible unit (you can set the iris according to your needs), you can adjust virtually everything about it. Drop a pm to darinp2. He has owned one since its release and is quite familiar with them.

PS. I think Brian is correct, the Marants S3 also seem to share the Sony's blanking issue at 720p.

Cheers,
Raul

I did demo a Sharp DT300 before settling for the Epson Cinema 500 about 7 months ago. It looked great with no rainbows in the 10 minutes or so that I watched it.

The problem I have with the Sharp was that it is just a one year warranty. We're talking serious coin now (at least for me) and at least the Marantz comes with a 3 year warranty.

I've heard about the blanking issue on the S4, but not the S3. The S4 is out of my price range. That kind of money is better saved for a 1080p projector or the 70" Qualia RPTV. My thinking is that maybe I can get a good deal on an S3 while it's on closeout.

Originally posted by vincanity
The problem I have with the Sharp was that it is just a one year warranty. We're talking serious coin now (at least for me) and at least the Marantz comes with a 3 year warranty.

I thought you usually kept your projectors for less than a year :D

I agree 3 year warranty is better than 1, but remember DLPs have less issues than LCDs and in general are more reliable. My guess is that if you use your projector fairly regularly (and put in about 400 hrs in yr), any problems you were bound to have should surface. Also, I have not noticed too many threads questioning the quality of the better Sharp projectors (of course, you should take that with a _rock_ of salt ;)

Originally posted by vincanity
I've heard about the blanking issue on the S4, but not the S3. The S4 is out of my price range. That kind of money is better saved for a 1080p projector or the 70" Qualia RPTV. My thinking is that maybe I can get a good deal on an S3 while it's on closeout.

I agree with your reticence in spending too much for a 720p projector, the problem is authorized Marants resellers rarely have fire sales on the previous Marants top of the line FP to move on to the next model year.

Cheers,
R

vincanity, use an Amex card and double the Sharp warranty period.

With these inherent problems with the hs51 now uncovered, would you still buy the projector?

I'm curious,

I have seen some people write about using a panamorph with their H51, and I was wondering how is this done. Are they instructing their HTPC/DVD player to stretch the image so that it works the panamorph? Or are they just referring to 2.35:1?

BTW Ferret, good suggestion on the Amex card.

Does anyone know what the latest rom versions are for the HS-51?

I just bought one last Saturday. The firmware in it is:

Rom 1.01 /11.01
SC Rom 1.01
ip Rom 1.02

Is this a current firmware revision or has this unit been sitting on a shelf for a while?

Thanks
Charles

Oh Yeah , I'll write up a short evaluation of the PJ after I get a few more hours on it. I have been using a Sony G70 up to now. I just ordered an IMX lens for the 51. Hopefully this will resolve some of the pixelation that I see.

Thanks Bytehoven, Just out of curiosity why are you selling your IMX lens?

Charles

Hmm... with the 720p firmware update, is the HDMI 720p blanking and non 1:1 mapping now solved? So the HDMI 720p from a HTPC now looks equally sharp (or sharper!) compare to the 15pin VGA input?

Is it real or not? If the problem is now indeed solved, I may need to sell my 2 months old Epson TW200H and get the Sony!

Thanks in advance.

regards,

Li On

Does this mean that I can expect 1:1 pixel mapping using e.g. a Panasonic DVD-S97 via HDMI? (Provided I receive a unit with the upgraded firmware).

Byte, you do agree the image zeroendless posted a few posts back shown that 720p HDMI from HTPC is NOT 1:1 mapping, right? And that's what I found on 2 HS50 a while back.

I hope someone can test the new firmware with a HTPC and report that the problem is NOT resolved, so I can NOT buying the HS50! :D

regards,

Li On

Originally posted by Bytehoven
The latest after the 720p update is:
......................

I just heard today, projectors purchased from Sony, should have the 720p update installed. There are and have been back order delays while Sony tweaked the production of the HS-51 to incorporate the 720p update. .......

A additional and VERY credible "inside" info says that this HS50/51s (tweaked production ones) will ALSO have a better panel mounting method !!!!

Ring any bells ?????


Nick

Originally posted by Bytehoven

Everyone reporting HDMI 720p pixel problems have been using HTPC as a source, so that may be the problem rather than the HS-51.


I do not have a HTPC....

The only way I get 1:1 without any apparent video processing is INPUT_A Computer. With my iScanHD+ I can easily switch between HDMI 720p and VGA 720P.

I can pause my HD Receiver or my DVD PLAYER and switch between the 2 inputs and the difference is huge.

Any non believers in the New York Metropolitan area are welcome to come see a demo.

Gary

Are you positive about the "new" method of mounting the panels? That was my only real problem with the hs51, the hdmi was smaller to me. If so I might pull the trigger for number four try with this projector. How can you tell what the rom is with out firing up the projector, since most sellers wont do that for you? Point me in the direction of the seller who has the update for sure and I'm probably in, other wise its still a crap shoot.

Originally posted by jeffropaige
Are you positive about the "new" method of mounting the panels? That was my only real problem with the hs51, the hdmi was smaller to me. If so I might pull the trigger for number four try with this projector. How can you tell what the rom is with out firing up the projector, since most sellers wont do that for you? Point me in the direction of the seller who has the update for sure and I'm probably in, other wise its still a crap shoot.

I think its pretty clear from Bytehoven and Kris Deering's postings that ordering directly from SONY (yes, I know there's a backorder) is the only way to be assured of getting an updated hs51.

Question is, are you willing to accept a SONY backorder or do you need a projector right now?

Does anyone know if the 51 uses the same light engine as the GWIII?

Well. I just got off the phone with Sony to get a work order #. The service tech knew nothing about this as Byte has reported. She put me on hold a few times and checked with here super and he knew nothing as well. They offered to do some research and get back with me on this. I recommended that they call the Laredo service center and check to see if there is a fix but they would not do this. After arguing with her that I was not making this up, she finally gave me the Laredo address and a work order number. She instructed me to write a note of what I was requesting to be done and include it in the box. She told me that if they can perform the upgrade they will and if they cannot they will just send the PJ back. Now I am leary of sending my PJ off to Lareado and then just having it sent back. I have nightmares of what Fed Ex or UPS might do to it. I am hoping Byte can give us specific instructions of how he sent his in and what kind of note he wrote. Also, I was thinking I may get them to check pixel alignment while it is there. I would not send it in just for this but since I am off by a lttle over 1 pixel, I thought maybe they could fix this as well. Any thoughts?

I didn't think they could fix alignment issues. I thought the panels were cemented in place permanently. Is that correct?

reaper

Ya I think you should try and get them to see if they can align the panels better for sure, like i said that was my bid beef with the vpl-hs51. I wont order another one unless they did infact come up with a better way of setting the panels in there proper place. I think almost 50% of buyers of the hs51 have panel misalignment (from what I remember reading on the poll someone did here )and just sorta decided to live with it. Not I said the FLY. :)

I have said numerous times and have discussed with Eric that i think panel alignment is overblown as an issue. Beyond three feet from the screen I cannot see any misalignment. I cannot see it with normal material, only with a one pixel pattern. Interestingly, with the IMX Lens any misalignment totally disappears. But I do understand the desires of those to have it perfect and I would ask the service center to fix mine if I send it in for the 720p fix.

Like Eric I am in no hurry to send my projector in until there is a service bulletin of some sort and unlike Eric, I do not care to argue with some customer no-service rep for an hour that one actually exists...

Brian

Brian, you are just used to your Barco being misconverged. :D

I wonder if this is why PC suggested the DVDO for 480i material. :)

I wonder if there are any differences in the timings for 720p HDMI via the iScan or Denon 5910 vs. 720p HDMI via HTPC.

Again, don't get too excited.....

VIDEO PLAYBACK via htpc or non-htpc makes NO obvious different at least not to my eyes. In fact, i never tried to compare the image. But display on windows is another story.

A much suitable comparison is showing the desktop again from HTPC>HS51 and HTPC>Iscan>HS51 to rule out the possibility. I don't have both htpc and iscan to show the differents but will try to locate more suitable scene for 6412 720p out and htpc TS file 720p. They are same materials dumping from 6412 to pc.

Originally posted by jeffropaige
Are you positive about the "new" method of mounting the panels? That was my only real problem with the hs51, the hdmi was smaller to me. If so I might pull the trigger for number four try with this projector. How can you tell what the rom is with out firing up the projector, since most sellers wont do that for you? Point me in the direction of the seller who has the update for sure and I'm probably in, other wise its still a crap shoot.

Yes, I am VERY positive about the "new" (or at least "better") mounting of the panels.
As a matter of fact, here in Greece Sony will receive shipings of the "improved" HS50s beginnign of March.

Nick

Well sounds pretty good now lets see these new ones in action. I would think it would be easier for sony to just let people send in their vpl-hs51's and exchange for the updated model??? I dont really get that. It sounds like it would be easier, what do you guys think? I mean what are they doing with the three models that i bought from crutchfield and returned? I know for sure Crutchfeild sent them in for panel problems because they were out of stock for like 2 weeks after my returns. I'd say let people return for exchange if they want and either b-stock the returns or throw them on the assembly line for a new lcd block and firmware update. Seems easier and more customer freindly.

Originally posted by reaper
I didn't think they could fix alignment issues. I thought the panels were cemented in place permanently. Is that correct?

reaper

Well, who knows ??
I for one was informed from a Sony insider after asking him about when to expect the new firmware HS50s, that they will not only have the new firmware but also a better panel mounting (actualy a more "stable" way of mounting is what he said).

Well, we will have to wait and see!

Nick

Question for Bytehoven. Have you tried the Avia overscan test pattern at 720P since getting the fix? Is there any overscan, and if so how much? Since there is overscan at 480i, 480p and 1080i, I'm wondering if they added overscan at 720p as part of the fix. If so, this would mean that they added scaling and it is not 1:1 pixel mapping.

Gentlemen,

I have had the pleasure of wading through all 150+ pages of this thread in the previous weeks; terrific stuff! I live in Holland and finally had a chance to see the HS50 in action last weekend, and, like most of you, I was very impressed by the image quality. I am currently researching my first beamer purchase and was initially set on the Epson TW200 (European model) given its great bang for buck, but having read the various reviews and especially your enthusiasm for the Sony I am now seriously considering the HS50. However, I must say that I am still somewhat hesitant given the problems that have been discussed here; it seems that the HS50/51 still has some maturing to do. Hopefully the firmware update is both genuine and a problem solver; until then I will keep my eye on this forum and my money in my pocket.

I do have a question though. When I saw the Sony last weekend it was showing the superbit version of Vertical Limit from a Denon 2910, presumably PAL via HDMI or DVI (I never got the exact details, but I'll lurch ahead regardless). At the beginning of the movie our fearless National Geographic hero Chris O'Donnell appears and enters one of the mountain dwellings (albeit the wrong one) in search of his sister. The thing that struck me most was the way his face, which is seen in close-up, went completely out of focus while he was moving. The same thing happened a little later on, when Bill Paxton arrived outside (by copter?) and moved to greet some famous face he recognised; he defocused quite horribly. I assume that this is (some form of) motion blurring.

My question: what is the best way (if any exists) to reduce this effect? What is/are the most likely cause(s)? The projector seems to be excellent, the DVD player is highly regarded in reviews, the cables were bound to be quality given the shop's focus on high-end audio, the viewing distance was approx. 1.5xwidth, the DVD source was superbit; I wouldn't know any aspect of the demonstration that was not equal or better to what I would presumably have at home (other than a separate scaler which was not present). Yet the blurring was quite a let-down. Is it specific to this particular title? Or am I expecting too much, because a highly blown-up image will highlight every shortcoming?

Thanks in advance for all replies!

Cor

Byte, I meant to ask you why you got rid of your HD+?

Originally posted by suffolk112000
I just ordered a 30 foot HDMI to HDMI cable from Ram Electronics.
I have been concerned with the length I have to run my cable. I don't want pic degradation because of it. Makes me feel better to hear yours is working well.

Craig:)

I just ordered the same cable. I hope it works well with the HD Tivo and the HS51 and a 118" screen. Seems like the best quality longer cable out there for a decent price. I'll report here next week on how it works out...

hi all

what would you say is the best films to try out the hs50
i have the hs10 would try them out on that then the hs50
as thya will let me lend it for the weekend

but thay still have no projectors yet i am going to phone them this friday to see if thya have them yet and to see if thya have the new firmware but i bet thya dont

thanks all

Originally posted by Meridius
what would you say is the best films to try out the hs50
i have the hs10 would try them out on that then the hs50
as thya will let me lend it for the weekend
Since one of the big selling points of this PJ is black level, you might want to try something dark and moody like The Forgotten or Dark City. Make sure you set the brightness first, the default of 50 is probably not the correct setting. Something from Pixar (Toy Story 2, Finding Nemo) might be good for checking bright colors. Some of the SuperBit DVDs like The Fifth Element or Spiderman have a lot of wow factor with this PJ.

I have Sony Laredo's repair number (scroll down if you don't want to read all of this first), but before I post it, I feel compelled to share with all of you my painful story of trying to get my VPL-HS10 fixed through them...

I sent my projector to Sony Laredo back at the beginning of December '04 to have the common "lamp bug" issue fixed. They fixed that problem, but introduced a new one. Specifically, when I watch DVDs at 480p through the component video inputs, I can see diagonal, rotating, pulsating parallel lines throughout the image, particularly on darker backgrounds. It looks like some type of interference, and before you ask the obvious, I've tried a different DVD player, different cables, different cable routing, and an AC power conditioner and the problem persists. The problem disappeared when I hooked up a VPL-HS20, though...so the issue is definitely with the projector.

Anyway, I just received my projector back from Laredo for the fourth time and the interference is still there. Every time I send the pj in for service I include very, very specific instructions that spell out in great detail how to see the problem and how to replicate it. I have no idea what the technicians are doing, but they claim to have made "electrical adjustments" every time I get the projector back, so I guess they figure they're fixing something. Yet the issue persists. I'd be willing to bet money that it's a problem with the new power supply that they replaced my original power supply with during its first visit to Laredo, but nobody seems to want to explore that possibility.

I'm at my wit's end right now because obviously Sony can't fix the problem, yet they caused it because it definitely didn't exist before I sent the pj in for service the first time. I'm going to raise holy hell tomorrow when I call them, that's for sure. If they can't repair it, I think I'm entitled to a refurb replacement at the very least...I can't watch 480p through the component inputs as it stands right now, and that's the only connection that my house is wired with!

This all really sucks because I'd love to upgrade to an HS51 but I definitely don't want to get one if I have to send it in for upgrades or repairs. That means I have to wait it out until I can be assured that I'll get one from the factory without panel alignment problems or the 720p blanking issue. Hopefully Bytehoven or someone else with an "in" at Sony will be able to tell us the serial numbers of corrected projectors once they hit the streets.

If anyone can help me with a good person to contact (other than someone at Laredo) about my problem, I'd be much obliged.

Anyway, sorry to hijack the thread. The number to Sony Laredo is (956) 728-2160. Ask for Juan; he's the projector guru and should be able to schedule your projector for service.

Bytehoven, you're certainly welcome. (956) 728-2130 and (956) 728-2133 are also good numbers; nine times out of ten you'll get through to an actual person at one of those three numbers. One thing I will say about the staff at Laredo...they're very friendly. They might not fix your projector, but they're sure nice about it! :-)

Bytehoven, do you think at some point you'll be able to find out, through your Sony contact, the serial numbers of the HS50s/51s that come from the factory with the 720p fix AND the new LCD panel mounting method (if there is such a thing)? Like I mentioned earlier, I'm ready to buy an HS51, but I figure the longer I wait, the better chance I'll have to get one with the fixes already in place.

So much for the despair, let have fun.......

4 pictures shown all 720p from 2 sources with 4 different inputs with same material.
6412 DVI out, 6412 component out, HTPC DVI out, HTPC VGA out...see how good you are. Please discard the picture setting, i didn't calibrate all of them but check out the how much different does it make on 4 inputs. I will post the answer tomorrow. Have funs!! :D

http://www.danator.com/img/4mat.jpg

[EDIT] add result, highlight to view spoiler



[Picture A] 6412 DVI
[Picture B] HTPC DVI
[Picture C] HTPC VGA
[Picture D] 6412 COMP

Hi all i have been reading up about the sony hs50 on here
and find that there is a firmware update for this projector but as that
forum is mostly usa based has anyone here tried to phone sony for a upgrade in the uk
or know when the sony upgraded projectors are out

i know one shop thta has one of these but theres no way it has the new firmware as thay have had it 3 weeks

but if i see one and want one how do we know what has the new firmware and the new panel alinement how do we know are thay been filtterd to the uk yet ????

thanks all

A. 6412 DVI out
B. 6412 component out
C. HTPC VGA out
D. HTPC DVI out

I'm a little lost, here. What is this image from such that is can come from both a cable box and a PC? Also, while the devices are outputting 720P is the material 720P or is there some scaling going on?

Byte, what does one look for in A & D for the Y/C you are seeing?

I do see what you are seeing. I agree the photos are of limited use to me. This monkey needs a better banana-camera. :) The photos in post #3109 were much, much better.

Has Sony stated what the expected round-trip time spent will be when sending the PJ to Laredo for this update?

Hi all.

I have the HS51 and recently purchased a Dalite electric screen from Jason here at AVS. I ordered the 12V projector interface for the screen so that the screen lowers and raises when the projector is turned on and off. Imagine my disappointment when I get it all hooked up and turn the projector on and the screen does nothing. I rechecked my wiring and all was correct. The manual electric switch for the screen works fine too.

I then unplugged the minijack from the projector and connected a 9V battery to the plug and voila the screen raises and lowers properly. So I conclude the wiring is correct and the Dalite projector interface works fine.

I measured the voltage coming from the projector's trigger output and it reads almost 12 volts (the battery by the way reads about 9.5 volts) when not connected to the Dalite interface. When connected to the Dalite interface the voltage from the projector drops to 0. This makes me think the projector doesn't supply enough current to trigger the relay in the screen.

So my questions are:
- Does this make sense?
- Has anyone else got their trigger out to work with the Dalite projector interface?
- Any ideas?

Thanks very much,
Nas

I'm a little lost, here. What is this image from such that is can come from both a cable box and a PC? Also, while the devices are outputting 720P is the material 720P or is there some scaling going on?

It's natively 720p Transport stream from ABC, probaly our beloved desperate housewife/mom/daughter favor show. The Clip where the young Gardener messaged Mrs Solis "Meet me at the motel" to get some :D.

I have it dump to pc, playback with zoomplayer. Like i said, this is just for fun but not for critical evaluation. IT did took me hour to get thing sync up and search for suitable clip. But they aren't windows "pint screen" or any cut and zoom from org full screen shot. Those picture are full screen camera shot at 2048 x 1536 in jpg. It's about the same distance, zoom and size from my last desktop post. I tried to make all variables as close as possible to the desktop shot. We have few posts questioning the htpc vga/hdmi desktop image and it's very distinct even view it from 16' over 106" screen. But video wise, you don't notice that differences.

Bring the image into photoshop so I display it a little bigger,

It's in photoshop but can't do that. The layers are named by the source and format and the game is not over ...just yet :D

This monkey needs a better banana-camera. The photos in post #3109 were much, much better.

Funny you said that, i was saving up for Canon 20D + couple of canon L lens but went for upgrading projector hs51 instead....LOL.

please excuse my ignorance...
As of a few days back, I have my hs51 ceiling mounted and connected to me sony 975 dvd player via hdmi and 1080i. The images are breathtaking, better than any movie theater I have had to sit in and endure bad projection, soda-sticky floors and people chomping on stale popcorn. I will only be using the projector with dvd's. Is there any reason I would want to address the 720 problem that you are all discussing? Is this a problem only for people using computers? (I do not know what htpc stands for) Thanks for any advice.

Larry

Originally posted by larsil
Is there any reason I would want to address the 720 problem that you are all discussing? Is this a problem only for people using computers? (I do not know what htpc stands for) Thanks for any advice.

Larry I think this can be answered by examing de/interlacing and scaling of the two options, Larry.

For 1080i output its:

480i {DVD} --> 480P --> 1080P --> 1080i {DVD output} -->1080i (HS51 input} --> 540P (Deinterlaced DOWN} --> 720P {Native rez of HS51}

For 720P output:

480i {DVD} --> 480P --> 720P {DVD output} --> 720P {HS51 input & native rez}

And this says nothing about the proficiency of the de/interlacers and scalers of the two devices in question.

Originally posted by larsil
please excuse my ignorance...
As of a few days back, I have my hs51 ceiling mounted and connected to me sony 975 dvd player via hdmi and 1080i. Is there any reason I would want to address the 720 problem that you are all discussing? Is this a problem only for people using computers? (I do not know what htpc stands for) Thanks for any advice.
HTPC is Home Theater Personal Computer, which is any PC that is being used in a Home Theater (watching DVDs, TV, HDTV, WMV HD, movie downloads, etc). There is a whole forum in AVS devoted to them.

I have the same DVD player and am running at 1080i. I tried switching between 720P and 1080I and other than the black border at 720P could see very little difference in the picture quality. I thought 720P might be slightly better, but honestly I don't know if I could tell which was which if someone else was switching it. For the reasons TheFerret pointed out, 720P should in theory be better, but in reality I could not see enough of a difference to worry about it. You might try the same test yourself. If you don't see a difference in image quality it may not be worth the risk of sending it for the fix.

Note that there may be more of a difference between 720P and 1080I with a true HD source, but I don't yet have any to test.

So far no one has verified if 720P is doing 1:1 pixel mapping after the fix. If it is, this would mean no overscan which might be a reason to prefer the fixed 720P. 1080i has about 2.5% overscan, which means part of the image is being cropped. Some people would prefer the uncropped image even if the image quality is the same.

SONY HS51 AND ISCAN DVDO HD+ COMPATABILITY(WITH DVI OUT PUT)

I am having some "hand shake" issues with the above combo. I can get a VOOM satelite receiver to work, however both my dvd player( INTEGRA 10.5)and my JVC D THEATER PLAYER(one with the HDMI OUT PUT)wont. They even wont work with a direct hook up( i have been going thru a OPTI SWITCHER).
They do work for about 5 seconds and stop. With the JVC there is copy protection logo that comes on the screen" Your display isnt HDPC COMPLIANT, THIS IS WARNING 350,(OR 305,cant remember). I even switched in different cables, etc. The run is a long one, (40 feet) however has worked with other displays before,and as said above VOOM does work.

Have talked with the good people at ISCAN, and they dont have a clue, but did mention another client with the SONY,having similar issues. I posted a separate thread on this, but so far geting no response.The only comon denominator is that the two source components that dont work, both have a HDMI output, and the VOOM (that works) had DVI and the DVDO ISCAN + also had a DVI type of out put device. I , of course, am using the correct cables (DVI on one end, HDMI on the other end (SOURCE ENDS). Since HDMI and DVI, are supposed to be backward compatiable, shouldnt be any problem, however there is. I even put in a different display,( OPTIMA H77, and with same results) Any insight would be appreciated.

CHEERS, TC

jschefdog,

Thanks so much for the information! I also called Juan at the sony repair center who has been mentioned here on the forum as the person handling the hs51 update and he said that 1080i is the way to go with the sony hdmi dvd player. So with your comments and those from Juan at Sony, I am now very comfortable in keeping my hs51 as is. My wife got back today from a trip and I gave her a first demo of the new theater room. She was amazed and thrilled. Now, I am working on tweaking my sound system!

Thanks again!

Larry

Originally posted by TheFerret
I think this can be answered by examing de/interlacing and scaling of the two options, Larry.

For 1080i output its:

480i {DVD} --> 480P --> 1080P --> 1080i {DVD output} -->1080i (HS51 input} --> 540P (Deinterlaced DOWN} --> 720P {Native rez of HS51}

For 720P output:

480i {DVD} --> 480P --> 720P {DVD output} --> 720P {HS51 input & native rez}

It is not clear that the current chipsets work in the manner you describe for 1080i output. It is more likely that they scale directly from the MPEG decoder output to 1080i. This may explain why people are not seeing a great pq difference between 720p and 1080i.

Originally posted by MRJAZZZ
SONY HS51 AND ISCAN DVDO HD+ COMPATABILITY(WITH DVI OUT PUT)

I am having some "hand shake" issues with the above combo. I can get a VOOM satelite receiver to work, however both my dvd player( INTEGRA 10.5)and my JVC D THEATER PLAYER(one with the HDMI OUT PUT)wont. They even wont work with a direct hook up( i have been going thru a OPTI SWITCHER).
They do work for about 5 seconds and stop. With the JVC there is copy protection logo that comes on the screen" Your display isnt HDPC COMPLIANT, THIS IS WARNING 350,(OR 305,cant remember). I even switched in different cables, etc. The run is a long one, (40 feet) however has worked with other displays before,and as said above VOOM does work.

Have talked with the good people at ISCAN, and they dont have a clue, but did mention another client with the SONY,having similar issues. I posted a separate thread on this, but so far geting no response.The only comon denominator is that the two source components that dont work, both have a HDMI output, and the VOOM (that works) had DVI and the DVDO ISCAN + also had a DVI type of out put device. I , of course, am using the correct cables (DVI on one end, HDMI on the other end (SOURCE ENDS). Since HDMI and DVI, are supposed to be backward compatiable, shouldnt be any problem, however there is. I even put in a different display,( OPTIMA H77, and with same results) Any insight would be appreciated.

CHEERS, TC

Have you tried setting HDCP to OFF on the iScanHD+

This may or may not work but it is worth a try. By turning it off at the DVI input some HDMI devices will turn off HDCP. If the device still sends HDCP then the iScan must play by the rules however depending on the device some devices will turn off HDCP protection. This is exactly what happens with my Hughes DirectvHD receiver. It normally expects HDCP at the other end however it will turn off HDCP at the source if a non HDCP display device is detected.

GDEMOTT

Thanks for the feed back. Will give it a shot. I also have a different type of switcher (hdmi switcher, as opposed to dvi)coming. Probably wont make a diffierence, however am just trying to explore all the options.

CHEERS, TC

HHF, I didn't mean to suggest what I had written was set in stone for the person I was replynig to. For instance, for all I know the DVD player is scaling 480P to 540P and interlacing UP to 1080i. My reply was just meant to point out to different paths a process can take both inside the DVD player and another in the display.

OK, that's it, I am done tweaking, I am finished and I know you are all tired of my enthusiasm for my new hs51 but I have to say it, I have to, this is one amazing projector. Just took a look at a few scenes from Star Wars Episode 2 dvd and I am blown away. The blacks, the colors, the fine details - every inch of my screen looks spectacular (that's a carada brilliant white by the way) Also, I have to praise the sony 975 dvd player. This and the hdmi and the hs51, I have never seen a better projector image anywhere. Not on any machine I looked at before setting up my theater room. So, I will not be doing the 720 fix, I am totally thrilled. That's all, please forgive my leaping and jumping for joy so much but after all the thought and effort in making a first home theater, well, you understand... By the way, if any of you have the pioneer 1014 receiver, I could use a little help... please let me know.

Thanks for all the great info I have received from all of you!

Larry

OK, that's it, I am done tweaking, I am finished and I know you are all tired of my enthusiasm for my new hs51 but I have to say it, I have to, this is one amazing projector.

See, that's the spirit. I love mine too, how about throw in a happy ending for the love of hs51?

http://www.danator.com/img/shots.jpg

[edit: All DVD except bottom pic, BOn jovi from inhd]

zeroendless,

great photos! by the way, what settings did you end up using for dvd viewing? after all the talk about problems, I am happy to hear from another person enjoying the projector!

Larry

Those photos are fairly accurate, right down to the exposure of the near-blacks. I can see that you paid a conscious effort, here, and the result can be seen in the sometimes-overexposure in certain portions of some scenes.

I cannot wait for the day they can make a camera where a per-pixel expsore can be controlled.

Great photos. How about some videogame shots. jeff

You know what they say, screen shot makes any projector image looks like a million dollar baby.

Larry, for DVD i mixed HTPC software setting with sony, I can't get the constrast correctly with sony alone. Anyway, due to VMR overlay use in HTPC, My settings are way off for others application.

Jeff, sorry. I am not much of a game person. Far Cry is still stealed in the box from the day i got my 6800. My ps2 and xbox is missing either a controller or game...LOL.

Ferret, the screen shot for bright screen has been quite a challenge with the new high gain Draper m2500 i got. I usually play with camera aperture and shutter to get the picture as close as the projecting image. My old DIY gatorboard matt white was much easy to work with. Look at first picture, notice a sight overexposure on left forehead and hair area from Theoden. That;s the my best effort.

You know what they say, screen shot makes any projector image looks like a million dollar baby.

Larry, for DVD i mixed HTPC software setting with sony, I can't get the constrast correctly with sony alone. Anyway, due to VMR overlay use in HTPC, My settings are way off for others application.

Jeff, sorry. I am not much of a game person. Far Cry is still stealed in the box from the day i got my 6800. My ps2 and xbox is missing either a controller or game...LOL.

Ferret, the screen shot for bright screen has been quite a challenge with the new high gain Draper m2500 i got. I usually play with camera aperture and shutter to get the picture as close as the projecting image. My old DIY gatorboard matt white was much easy to work with. Look at first picture, notice a sight overexposure on left forehead and hair area from Theoden. That;s the my best effort.

VPL-HS51 Review from HOME THEATER MAG March 2005 Issue:


Page 1:
http://img56.exs.cx/img56/6581/page12rm.th.jpg (http://img56.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img56&image=page12rm.jpg)

Page 2:
http://img56.exs.cx/img56/7172/page24cj.th.jpg (http://img56.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img56&image=page24cj.jpg)



FINAL SCORE: 88

For anyone interested, an update on my DVI hand shake issues with DVDO ISCAN HD+. Last night i tried what GDEMOTT,(above post) )recommended. Didnt make any difference. Finally decided to just try a direct feed from the switch box itself ( i did try direct feed from both my INTEGRA 10.5 DVD player(DVI OUT),as well as the direct feed from the D THEATER (HI DEF) JVC tape player( HDMI OUT), but to no avail), and bingo/presto, a fabulous looking picture from both sources. Still an issue with DVD player as it wont sync at anything higher than 480p.

Why the direct feed from that actual source components don't hand shake, and the one with the switch box in the circuit, does, well tis strange to say the least. Unfortunately would be nice to scale my hi def images via the iscan, as i can use letterbox support, in conjunction with my PANAMORPH anamorphic lens.

CHEERS, TC

Please participate in the "What pj did your HS 50/51 replace poll.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=511075

MRJAZZ,

Maybe the switchbox is an active device that receives a signal and then retransmits it. If so, then it may have a stronger transmitter that is allowing for a successful handshake. Where in the 40' is the switchbox at?

GREGSTITT

It sits at the begining of the 40 foot run. What makes this even more perplexing is that my VOOM satelite ( hi def, 10801 out) works direct, as well as thru switch box, than out to ISCAN, than ISCAN out to the SONY projector. The other two source components dont, (unless as indicated in my above post, i only use the swithch box as the sending source)

CHEERS, TC

In regards to the difference between 720P and 1080i with the HS51. I definitely see a difference! 720P through my HD Tivo is better with 720P. I have done a comparison for a few other people and all picked the 720P as the better picture. I must be honest I have not tried it yet with my Sony 975 DVD player, but I will to see if it is as noticeable as with other HD sources.

Originally posted by Rieper
VPL-HS51 Review from HOME THEATER MAG March 2005 Issue:


...


FINAL SCORE: 88


I have it and read it. They either have a faulty projector or faulty equipment that they trust more than their eyes.

I'll take Widescreen Review's measurements over any other mag any day. Compare the calibrated grayscale in the HTM review to that in WSR.

http://www.widescreenreview.com/attractions/eqrevfeature.html

Ken

Originally posted by KenLand
I have it and read it. They either have a faulty projector or faulty equipment that they trust more than their eyes.

I'll take Widescreen Review's measurements over any other mag any day. Compare the calibrated grayscale in the HTM review to that in WSR.

http://www.widescreenreview.com/attractions/eqrevfeature.html

Ken


Ken,

Could it be possible they received an updated firmware model direct from SONY? They wouldn't know it was an updated firmware unless Sony told them it was. It's not like Home Theater Mag buys an HS51 at costco like us regular folk :)

Your comments about WSR's HS51 review are noted, and I completely agree.

Originally posted by KenLand
I have it and read it. They either have a faulty projector or faulty equipment that they trust more than their eyes.

I'll take Widescreen Review's measurements over any other mag any day. Compare the calibrated grayscale in the HTM review to that in WSR.

http://www.widescreenreview.com/attractions/eqrevfeature.html

I read it as well and have to say all 3 of the low cost PJ reviews in this issue were pretty skimpy. Two pages each with very little detail on settings, inputs used, sources, etc. I would agree that so far WSR has done the most thorough English review of the HS-51. The German review at cine4home.de is probably the most thorough of all, but it's a challenge to wade through the imperfect babelfish translation.

Could it be possible they received an updated firmware model direct from SONY? They wouldn't know it was an updated firmware unless Sony told them it was. It's not like Home Theater Mag buys an HS51 at costco like us regular folk

Doubt it, timing ain't right. Review, print and public doesn't happend overnight.

Originally posted by Rieper
Ken,

Could it be possible they received an updated firmware model direct from SONY? They wouldn't know it was an updated firmware unless Sony told them it was. It's not like Home Theater Mag buys an HS51 at costco like us regular folk :)

Your comments about WSR's HS51 review are noted, and I completely agree.

I doubt it. The reviews were most probably done before the update. I know the WSR review was.

Ken

My first HS 51, had pixel alignment issues, and also just didnt look that impressive, with no wear near the apparant contrast, or color the unit should have produced. Is very possible the unit Home Theater reviewed, wasnt up to par, so to speak. I know this is an easy cop out for a luke warm review, however could make sense. My second unit is very, very good, and competive with anything i have used to date (and i have used more projectors than i care to, or have the time to mention). If i recall some one posted on this thread, or a related thread, that there is a widely variable factory adjustment for the auto iris in the service menu, that can change the apparant contrast, or appearance of a "contrasty and punchy" looking image, especially during scenes in which there is a lot of black, but also some vivid lighting effects. Wouldnt be surprised if my first unit, just wasnt properly dialed in at the factory, and the one that HOME THEATER had, also suffered from a similar issue.

CHEERS TC

It looks simply to me like they may have calibrated the projector with the iris off, which is wrong. The iris plays havoc with the grayscale and if you do not calibrate grayscale with it on it will not be close when you turn it back on. I know i was getting horrible tracking initially doing it that way.

Brian

Post result with spoiler (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5194311#post5194311).

Ahhh, I was close... just two of em reversed.

i'm glad that the one i liked the best, C, is the way i plan to hook up with.

eric

can anybody tell me ,, which is the best projector mount to get?
i have low ceilings and want it to be as flush as possible.
btw its a hs/51

thanks

Reminder
please vote in the which pj did your HS50/51 replace poll
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=511075

Originally posted by CARLOS3621
can anybody tell me ,, which is the best projector mount to get?
i have low ceilings and want it to be as flush as possible.
btw its a hs/51
Several people here (including me) purchased the Omnimount from Ebay thanks Brian's pointer in this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=5093740&highlight=ebay#post5093740) in this thread. See the HS-51 tweak thread starting about post 427 for some pictures of it. It can be flush mounted, but may not be the lowest profile available. However, a real bargain if they are still available on Ebay.

Search for "Universal Projector Mount Brand New"

Highly recommended.

Is there anyone with a HS50/HS51 who has any issues with it with respect to motion blur? I saw this effect during a demo a few weeks back, and I was wondering if it was due to the projector (HS50), the player (Denon 2910), or source (superbit DVD) [I have since learned that it is generally not due to the source?] It would be great to rule out the projector; anyone?

If you are describing what I think you are describing it is a limitation of LCD technology.

Brian

Originally posted by CoreSmack
Is there anyone with a HS50/HS51 who has any issues with it with respect to motion blur? I saw this effect during a demo a few weeks back, and I was wondering if it was due to the projector (HS50), the player (Denon 2910), or source (superbit DVD) [
What effect are you describing? Motion Blur is used by film makers to create smooth looking high speed sequences, particularly for 24fps film display. Without motion blur you end up with the choppy strobe-like effect as seen in the Gladiator and King Arthur openning battle scenes.

Older LCDs are said to have motion smearing because of slow refresh rates. I certainly have not noticed it.

Can you give a Title and chapter on the DVD you saw the problem?

I have noticed some blurring during certain scenes as well. It happens very rarely and I am not sure if it is from the source or the projector. I have seen it with regular TV broadcasts as well as on DVD. Again not sure what causes it but it happens rarely. It usually happens in fast panning scene. It may very well be like houstonhoyafan states two posts above.

The title was Vertical Limit (PAL(?) superbit), the scene was at the start where Chris O'Donnell arrives at the mountain and enters the wrong house in search of his sister. The upper part of his body is visible in close-up; when he moves around his face defocusses completely. A second scene is a few minutes further on, where Bill Paxton is greeted by a crowd and he moves towards a famous face in the crowd; while he is walking he skips in and out of focus. The speed of movement is quite unspectacular (no panning of the camera, just actor movement), so I was quite surprised to see this effect. It was so apparent that I would have expected more comments about it on this forum if it was in fact due to the HS50; but then again, I might have been expecting too much being a newbie. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to see the Sony with other sources. Is there anyone who can try the above scenes and report his/her findings?

For those of you looking to buy a projector mount and like the one on ebay (univeral projector mount brand new!), I found the same one (from the same seller I believe) on PriceGrabber for a few bucks cheaper. If interested, search pricegrabber for omnimount pmd-1 and sort by Bottom Line Price to find the one.

I just ordered one, should get it in a few days.

Derek

I noticed some blurring in Dark City in the scene where they are showing the bald alien guys working on an assembly line of househould objects. In a few shots of the moving assembly line, there seemed to be some motion blur on teh HS51 but not on my regular CRT TV when I checked it there. I was watching with the Toshiba upscaling DVD player (since returned) connected to the HS51 via HDMI and outputting 1080i to eliminate the overscan problem. I did not think to try it at 720p and no longer have that set up.

I saw the same thing on my hs51 when i had it, I think its pretty much something thats goes with the projector being lcd based (my other two sony projectors have the same blur sometimes) I got to the point where it wasnt even noticable anymore.

The things that bug me with this 720p LCD are:

1. A scanline effect in vertical motion, not sure if this is inherent in the technology or the internal scaler that kicks in with 720p.
2. LCD panels cannot catch up to some horizontal fast action. The image appears to fall apart.
3. Fixed panel noise. Even if I get rid of SDE, I will on occasion have what looks like the grid pop back into view momentarily or I see what seems to be just "noise."

Brian

2. LCD panels cannot catch up to some horizontal fast action. The image appears to fall apart.


image fall apart? what do you meant and what source are you using?

3. Fixed panel noise. Even if I get rid of SDE, I will on occasion have what looks like the grid pop back into view momentarily or I see what seems to be just "noise."

YOu should have seen the panny, chocolate milk :D. What i like my hs51 is free from FPN although you see a very light and subtle VB present from occasion heavy fog scene. But compare to Espon D4 panel, it's day and night different. It's roughly 100H now and the more i used, the less VB its get to the point the buddy of mine can't longer tell. But, i still do...

ps, I experienced a defective draper m2500 screen that make any scene looks like a huge FPN pool, the screen surfered from dirty vertical streaks and is very visible without present of prejector. The replacemenet took care of the problem. At least one user from different high gain screen, vutec ( not silverstar) concur the issues. What I am just saying is, I've seen present of VB and FPN due to bad screen.

Is anyone using an iScan HD+ with their HS51 ?

What improvements were bought about with the iScan HD+ ?

Many thanks.

Gentlemen,
I've been lurking AVS for some years, reading in depth only rarely.
Because of my decision to make changes, I've read the entirety of this thread, all 162 pages! I'm poised to buy the HS51 but have a few reservations I'd like to voice.
I've had a real but crude"home theater" since ~ 1980. Eventually I settled on the Sony D50HTU with semi high-end audio in support of the video.
I noted with interest the number of users switching to the HS50/51 from 7" and even 8" CRT's.
I am a back of the theater movie patron( when I choose to suffer hordes of noisy people) and watch movies at home at min. 2 and typically 3+ screen widths.
My auditioning of the HS51 at my local Fry's was particularly realistic in that the setting was more like an ordinary living room( light walls etc.) and the performance was truly fine with DVD's. I called around and no one has the HS51 with an HDTV feed.
Therein lies my problem/question. Is any CRT owner concerned about the loss in resolution that will be realized in moving from a min. 1280x1024 to the more modest 1280x720 of the HS51?
My recent move to HDTV has revealed an image quality superior to the prior primacy of DVD watching.
I've read all the reviews looked at projected images in local stores. I'm convinced that the HS51 represents an absolute best bang for the buck.
The Bill Cushman review recognizes that the HS51 does NOT resolve the best HDTV images ( and certainly wont hack the needs Of the soon to arrive HD-DVD/Blueray) . He states the need to migrate to 1920x1080 panels, and I agree.
Sony is selling the purist Qualia-004 for ~ $24k. They are selling the fully packaged Qualia-006 for ~ 11K. They are selling a comparable technology XBR100 for ~ $7K. Why is there no Cineza like package for this 1920x1080 capability? If it were available now...or soon, it would be worth a few thou to me right now.
What to do?
...buy an HS51 right now or wait a season or two for a projector that is bound to come down the pike.
Any thoughts or musings are welcome
Thanks!

Originally posted by Brian227
Therein lies my problem/question. Is any CRT owner concerned about the loss in resolution that will be realized in moving from a min. 1280x1024 to the more modest 1280x720 of the HS51?
I switched from a DWIN 7" CRT, but I was not running at 1280x1024. Due to the beam size, the scanlines started to overlap between 600 and 700 lines when adjusted to 16x9, so I never went higher than 1280x720. To me the HS-51 looks higher resolution because it is much sharper and clearer. Maybe 8" or 9" CRTs are better, but despite all my tweaking I could never get the DWIN to look that sharp. One thing I definitely won't miss is all the hours of tweaking and re-tweaking that are required for a CRT.

I'm very happy with the HS-51, but there are a few things that aren't as good as the DWIN. Black levels, although very good for a digital PJ, are still not as good as the DWIN. I sit at 1.5 screen widths. SDE is very apparent with perfect focus. With slight defocus it goes away and still looks sharper than the DWIN. The DWIN was much smoother, but also much softer.

The only HD material I have tried with the HS-51 is 720P WMV-HD files from my HTPC. At 1.5 screen widths they look great, much better than they did on the DWIN.

At 2-3 screen widths you will have absolutely no issues with artifacts, screen door or any other items mentioned here. And btw, I came from a Barco 808. Most CRT users run at 1280x720, except maybe those with 9-in CRT's. Hi Def is similar in appearance, maybe slightly better on the Sony compared with my Barco because of the extra punch in brightness and apparent sharpness...

Brian

Why is there no Cineza like package for this 1920x1080 capability? If it were available now...or soon, it would be worth a few thou to me right now.
What to do?

Wait til cedia 2005, of course you could say that every year -- wait til cedia (insert year here) But I really think Sony is going to show us a souped up hs51 ,maybe sxrd 720p or another challenger to the d5 panel (they will be there at cedia im sure) I was going to go for another hs51 after sony gets around to rerelease the "updated version" but im going to wait for cedia this year I think. Who knows maybe they release something to replace hs51? Then I go for that or I go for the discount hs51s on the net or ebay? :) Either way I win;) Ive got a coupe of other sony's to hold me over until then. But the short time i had the hs51s (four tries) I did really like them, even with the panel misalignments and the 720p problem (both of which they are said to be fixing. just my 2 cents not worth much :) jeff

I have a gneral question about picture quality and contrast. I plan on only projecting a 73" diagonal. My Question is : Do you think that there is less of a difference between pj's as the image gets smaller?

Originally posted by oilndrums2
I have a gneral question about picture quality and contrast. I plan on only projecting a 73" diagonal. My Question is : Do you think that there is less of a difference between pj's as the image gets smaller?

Yes there is, if you keep the viewing distance constant, because the SDE and lack of lumens will become less distracting. All small digital artifacts will also be less visible.

So you can indeed generalize that usually smaller picture is better (altough the black level can rise a little bit, because there is more light spill in the same area).

Originally posted by oilndrums2
I have a gneral question about picture quality and contrast. I plan on only projecting a 73" diagonal. My Question is : Do you think that there is less of a difference between pj's as the image gets smaller?

Actually yes that is true, the smaller the picture, the less difference projectors show. But you would still see differences.

what do you guys thing of a Da-Lite 100" Cinema Vision material screen with this projector? Will it be better than Parkland's Plas-tex? Do you think there is a better (brighter) 100" screen for about 800 or so?

Brian

Originally posted by Brian227
Gentlemen,
I've been lurking AVS for some years, reading in depth only rarely.
Because of my decision to make changes, I've read the entirety of this thread, all 162 pages! I'm poised to buy the HS51 but have a few reservations I'd like to voice.
Thanks!

Well if you read all the pages, then you read my review! It the only review you need to go off, it a real world review, not just tech specs! lol

SOWK,

If I remember correctly, your review strongly pushed the use of an expensive dvi-vga converter to achieve good image quality. Now that we have confirmed a patch exists to eliminate the blanking, I would suggest that this converter is less necessary. And if anyone is ever able to confirm that the patch allows 1:1 pixel mapping over hdmi, then it would seem completely unnecessary.

Don't you agree that new information about the projector should cause you to revise you previous statements or at least indicate that they may no longer be 100% accurate?

reaper

Is there a hs51 patch avaliable or are you talking about sending the pj to laredo tx for the 720p update? jeff

well phoned the shop up today and thay get products from sony on weds and thursdays and thay still have not got the sony hs50 so not this week another wwek of wating

Does AVS carry the HS51?

Do we have any sources that will let us know when its safe to purchase and updated model?

Thanks,
Ken

Originally posted by KenLand
Does AVS carry the HS51?

Do we have any sources that will let us know when its safe to purchase and updated model?

Thanks,
Ken

Both excellent questions, I have been waiting as well..

jeff,

I am talking about the patch that is being applied in Laredo and is presumably the cause for the delay of the new HS51s. So, there's a good chance that all the new HS51s will arrive with the patch installed. And thus, the need for a DVI->VGA converter would be diminished and possibly eliminated altogether.

reaper

I just got off the phone after speaking with Juan and the Laredo Sony Repair Center. He seemed like a very nice guy. He indicated the current estimated turn around time was 7 to 10 days. He also intimated that they would not only do the blanking upgrade but also check for pixel/panel misalignment, although he did not indicate what Sony would do if any misalignment was found.

-------------------------------
Ron Party

Hi Guys ...

Sorry to chime in the middle here but figured I would pass this along if anyone was interested.
I was emailed a cheesy little PowerPoint presentation on the Blackscreen. It sounds like it is being marketed for bundle with the HS51.

Anyhow ... if anyone is interested ... send me a PM and I can email it to you.
Cheesy ... but, at least it is something ;)

*Back to your regularily scheduled HS51 talk*

Originally posted by reaper
SOWK,

If I remember correctly, your review strongly pushed the use of an expensive dvi-vga converter to achieve good image quality. Now that we have confirmed a patch exists to eliminate the blanking, I would suggest that this converter is less necessary. And if anyone is ever able to confirm that the patch allows 1:1 pixel mapping over hdmi, then it would seem completely unnecessary.

Don't you agree that new information about the projector should cause you to revise you previous statements or at least indicate that they may no longer be 100% accurate?

reaper

Reaper. Thanks for asking me a question!

If they fix the Blanketing issue, that would be great, but would still not affect the image quality. As someone posted earlier in this fourm the shots of VGA, vs HDMI from there HTPC, you can see that the Text is still blurry, and not nearly as sharp as the dedicated VGA in. BTW thoese shots are perfect for thoese who want to know how bad the internal proccesssing is.

Also, I dont think they will fix the 1:1 pixel mapping, but if they do, then Yes my review would be flawed, as you wouldn't need the DVI-VGA adaptor!

But again highly unlikely, they would need to shut off, all the other features that are not avil in VGA mode!

And aparently some people think the sharpness feature would be life and death to loose! But what they dont relize, is that if that feature is there, the proccessing is still on, and will not be 1 : 1 Pixel mapping.

Thank you again, for your questions!

Also is there any one here in the Milwaukee, WI area? I might allow some people to stop by to see a completly tweaked Sony HS51

If they fix the Blanketing issue, that would be great, but would still not affect the image quality. As someone posted earlier in this fourm the shots of VGA, vs HDMI from there HTPC, you can see that the Text is still blurry, and not nearly as sharp as the dedicated VGA in. BTW thoese shots are perfect for thoese who want to know how bad the internal proccesssing is.

FYI, if you are talking about my posts, they won't the screen shots with the "FIX" and i don't remember those who already got the fix has htpc hdmi to confirm.

Anyway, what's your CR number after a completed tweaks? I sill waiting on the soon to release Smart III verson2 to get mine started.

Ron I also spoke with Juan and yes hes a very nice guy. I actually asked what would be done if I sent him a hs51 that needed the 720p and a panel alignment tweek. Juan said if the panels were off by only one or two pixels he would infact fix it by recalibrating (I tried to get out of him how it was done but he just said its very complicated and it wasnt something I could prob do) This did not involved a new lcd prism or optical block. But if the misalignment was larger than around two pixels they would put in a new optical block to start from scratch. So that sounds like pretty good news to me.(Is it the new optical block with the "new" way of inserting the panel?? I forgot to ask so who knows) but still sounded very willing to help with panel misaligments. jeff

I just got my new HS51 today and fired it up, and on the main blue screen it looks like the right side is much darker than the left, and the text on the menus is very clearly misaligned by one solid pixel. Argh. Did someone have pictures of their misaligned pixels? Would love to compare. Tried to find them earlier in the thread without much luck.

and the text on the menus is very clearly misaligned by one solid pixel. Argh

I'll be sending mine in for 720p fix and pixel misalignment while they at it after the oscar award. I will be happy with just 1 pixel off, 1 pixel is more than acceptable for LCD FP. Mine now have 1 of left, 1.5 off center and slowing increment to 2.5 toward right. The heat build-up at normal usage and shipping all contribute to the panel shifting. It's normal.

craige17:
Here are some misaligned pics I took. This was on the first HS50 I purchased.
I exchanged it 3-4 weeks ago and same misalignment so I took it back and now I'm waiting for the new batch to come to stores.

RE: New Production Batch - Canada

I called SonyStyle Canada and the new batch will be available for delivery on March 16. You can place an order online. The website displays "Next-In-Line" instead of "Available" for order. So that's why I called to find out what it means.

I also went in the Sony Store in Toronto and they still have a few here and there in different stores but this is old stock. The stores don't know anything about new batches and new inventory. Their warehouses (2) are on back-order (-2 in each warehouse).

I should receive some more information from the Sony Stores within the next few days.

Thanks Corry. Yep, that's pretty much what mine looks like. It really bugs me!

Craige:
You know... when I bought the first projector I didn't notice it, and really enjoyed it for a week... then I started reading this thread completely (i quickly glanced and read more reviews before I got the projector)

... then I noticed the alignment issue... and it really got me... once I knew it was there, I was always looking for it... so I exchanged it ...

... then I noticed the 720p issue...

... then the projector kept loosing focus... every time I would press user1, or 2, or 3 to try different settings...
I had to adjust the focus every 1/2 hour or so... sometimes it would be ok for 1 movie and sometimes I would have to adjust it 3-4 times a movie...

... then I noticed how bad the alignment was with VGA from PC (just displaying text)... text was so blurry and if you look up close the actual text was blue instead of black with the green pixels badly misaligned...

... then I took this one back again...

and now I'm just waiting for the new ones.

I know, probably some of you think I'm too picky, or exagerate things, or some of these issues are not really issues but you know what... that's not true !!!

All of us reading and posting on AVS are picky, perfectionists, dedicated, and more knowledgeable than the regular customers that just buy the "stuff" take it home and live with any issues the product has...."I guess that's the way it's supposed to be"... one might say...

...and here in Canada we always get screwed with US-CDN $ conversion .

The HS50 here is 5000.00 !! add the 15% tax (thanks to our greedy government) and already you're looking at $5,750.00

In US products are a lot cheaper than here...

So that's why maybe I'm not happy with some of these issues... for almost 6K I would expect a little more quality control...

sorry for the long post.........i'm just not happy cause I don't have an HS50 anymore (for a few weeks) :))))

I visited my local "Sony Only" store...now a Sony mostly store. Sony speakers are nothing special; and reviewed their HS51 setup. It included an HD feed( DirectTV receiver). The resulting images were good/acceptable.
This was a concern of mine. There was a slightly digital/too crisp look present that I hope I can minimize at my home.
I called around and found some dealers with present stock that is likely pre-fix. Some online dealers with aggressive pricing( no stock) state that they will be getting new shipments around March 11th. After speaking to Juan at Sony/Laredo, there is a high likelihood this will contain the firmware fix. I have sold my old CRT, and with no spare projectors, my theater will be dark for ~ 2weeks(sob!).
In my last (and only prior) post, I said, and still do, that the HS51 will not hack the needs of the best HDTV much less the soon to arrive HD media.
The reaction to my use of the word "hack" was that this was an "absurd" contention. I didn't say that the image wouldn't look good. My modest understanding of what is arriving is that it will provide 1920x 1080p. The HS51 is a fine machine, that I will shortly order, but will not be able to reveal this level of detail ( hack?).
Unlike my last projectors' residence of > 7 years, I expect this will satisfy for two...but the price is surely right. The Sony store stated they did not expect a Cineza like package with 1920x1080 panels for some time( who knows if they know what they are talking about?).
In any case, I am overjoyed at no more converging, tweaking, and other CRT unpleasantries. The new world of digital projectors means I'll be able to move them around by myself...a real novelty!
Now the DVI/HDMI, SDI isuues will have to be addressed and my very old Sony-ES player will be replaced...have to read the whole thread one more time and take notes this time. Is the Bravo D2 a liveable/workable low cost solution? I read some bad user reviews of the D1. For my needs, video performance is much more important than the audio; so the big Denon boxes represent considerable overkill.

I contacted a local dealer (east coast) who is getting a shipment in next week. Anyone know if this would be the updated units? Any info on serial #'s or firmware yet? I called Juan at Laredo and (I thought) he said he didn't yet know (or hadn't checked) how to find the firmware #

Corry I feel your pain brother Im in same boat but I may wait til cedia to see whats new with sony and their new panels they have coming out.(Ive got another sony pj to hold me over til then, unless I get that damm upgrade ich sooner lol. Serial numbers are probably the only way your going to tell if its the "updated" hs51 or not. The firmware numbers (old and new) were listed in either this or the hs51 tweak area, but unless the dealer is willing to fire up the projector for you before buying thats not much good. The dealers should know if they are getting the updated or if its more of the same. Good luck let us know when you find some updated hs51s and how they turn out .. jeff

ps you could watch a couple of electronic sites to see when they run out of stock and then get new stock in, so there is a better chance that you get the updated hs51. Byte did you get a updated version or know someone that did? I thought maybe you had talked about that. Also if you can sqeeze the info on tweaking the panels out of juan let us know ok?

Jefro:
You're lucky you have another projector... I don't.
I invested so much already within the last 3-4 weeks that I'm close to sleeping in the basement now...which could be good cause that's where my new cinema is :)... and after convincing my wife to go along with the projector, 110' screen (i actually built this one), new speakers (7.1), amp, etc... I'm just looking at a white screen with a good surround though :)

Once you get used to 110 screen there's no going back. I have a 51' but the poor thing collected dust for a month... now i'm back at it...

The one good thing about buying from the Sony Store is that they offer full refund within 30 days if you are not satisfied with the product.
As long as they sell the HS50 with these issues it is not satisfactory to me!!!
So as soon as the new batch is available I will be getting one. Will have to see what the rom, soft versions and serial #'s are.

Just be careful cause I bet that the stores/dealers that still have old stock will try and pass it as new stock to consumers.
And the problem is Sony only has a Shipping label that actually has the shipping date FROM THEIR WAREHOUSE!!!
Don't be confused ! This is not the Manufacturer Date, Production Date, Manufacturer Shipping Date !!! This is simply the date when the projector was shipped from the warehouse.
The 1st one I had - shipping date Dec.14 - purchased Jan 22.
Second one - shipping date - Dec. 29 - exchanged Jan.28
I saw the other day one shipped on Feb.4. with a serial # lower than the one from Dec....

Here is the info regarding the versions that will have the fix(es):
Rom Version: 01.02/11.01
SC Rom Version: 01.02
IP Rom Version: 01.02

This is available on the service menu - information.

I agree with Bytehoven about the term "hack"....
Why does a projector need to "hack" the HD media??

We are all used to using this term when obtaining something "illegally" or entering somewhere bypassing security so to say...
I don't think any projectors will actually "hack" the HD media...

I thought a "hack" was a taxi cab driver...:p

In the "street"...not in the halls of techieland....."it wont hack it" translates as " it wont cut it". I truly understand the nuances of techie "hack" as to breakdown attempts to code or to break in. I should have been more sensitive to language with this crowd...my bad!
This has gone beyond silly...
There ARE projectors ( very few) today, which will resolve fully the needs of the emerging HD. They are very expensive. The reasons are several but driven by poor yields of the panels. These yields( across several technologies) will certainly get better ( Sony is having trouble producing the Qualia004, and is missing promise dates).
In techie speak- there is no reason I can imagine for a projector to "hack the HD media"
Let us please allow the semantic silliness/phraseology granulation to conclude!

It seems nobody has confirmed the 720p fix actually fixes the processing us HTPC users were seeing? Have I missed a post somewhere? I dont think so.

I know Byte confirmed that the blanking was fixed but he was one of the few that never saw the processing issue since he was using an Iscan and not a HTPC.

Brian

It seems nobody has confirmed the 720p fix actually fixes the processing us HTPC users were seeing? Have I missed a post somewhere? I dont think so.

No confirmation on this issue, just yet. I'll be calling sony next week to send mine in after the Oscar. It's not much of a deal breaker for HTPC user if they don't mind hooking up a $20 vga cable.

Any new word on the availability of the updated hs51?

for those without an upgraded hs51/hs50 and that don't have access to a HTPC, i'll be reviewing a new DVI-VGA converter that is considerably cheaper than the others some have tried, including the dtrovision and the Gefen. should have it in hand in a week. i'll be using a bravo d2->no-name 10m DVI cable->converter->RAM elec. VGA cable->Sony HS50. i'll post my thoughts.

eric

Any suggestions for which cable to use? I have an ISCAN HD+ connected to a Directv HD receiver via DVI/HDMI and a DVD player via component. I have a tried a DVi/HDMI from the ISCAN to the projector, but the run is over 30 feet, and I don't know if that is causing the noise and fuzziness I see. I tried a component from the ISCAN to the projector, and it looks a little better. What about a VGA cable? Would it work with my set up? Would it look too sharp and flat like a computer monitor?