Can someone explain what a Prism Block Assembly is?

I originally sent in my hs51 to Grundys Lane, PA service center for repair on the 720p masking via HDMI input. My projector was then shipped by Sony to Laredo, TX service center for the actual work. I'm told by a Sony agent a short while ago, that the delay (over three weeks waiting) was because they found something wrong with the Prism Block Assembly while fixing the masking issue. Could this be a pixel alignment issue I wasn't aware of?

Anyway, the part is coming in today. So hopefully I'll have my hs51 ready to go by Friday.

Quite possibly yes, there probably giving you the "updated" panel alignment method or could just be the prism? I believe the prism block assembly is the block where the three colors come together(with mirrors I guess?) and then are projected out of the lens and onto your screen. Might have something to do with the panel misalignment ?? Maybe this is the real culprit to the misalignment issue some of us were seeing? hmmmmm jeff

I probably have an alignment or prism issue as well, when watching b/w material, I noticed that the left side is cold and blue'er while it slowly gets reddish on the right hand side.

But I'll wait till the rush for upgrades has cooled off a bit, its not like I have a massive collection of b/w material, just The Elephant Man and Eraserhead.

Maybe darkwire but I think I remember there being some service menu options for uniformity across the screen.

Brian

Originally posted by ericeash
for those without an upgraded hs51/hs50 and that don't have access to a HTPC, i'll be reviewing a new DVI-VGA converter that is considerably cheaper than the others some have tried, including the dtrovision and the Gefen. should have it in hand in a week. i'll be using a bravo d2->no-name 10m DVI cable->converter->RAM elec. VGA cable->Sony HS50. i'll post my thoughts.

eric

Tells us what you think! I'm interested in hearing your thoughs.

I was thinking of a device like that! I hear you can get a really good picture! :) I also heard you get rid of the proccessing, and get better black levels, and gray scales. That would be great if these devices really do that. Ecspecially the Dtrovision. (lol, to the ones who know what I'm talking about)

yeah, you're funny. i sent you a pm about this about a month ago, maybe you don't remember. anyway, this converter is less than $100. we'll see what happens, lol.

Hey HS51 owners. Does anyone know if you can replace the startup image on the HS51? I just taught myself how to trace and extrude logos into 3d renders and thought t looked so cool, I'd LOVE to have my HS51 startup with a reaper logo or something. Is it possible? Any details? Here my first attempt at tracing/extruding a logo. Check it!

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/501/2740LogoPass3.jpg

edited: Removed the logo to prevent slow load times for thread readers. Click on the link if you're interested.

reaper

Yeah, I think I remember reading that the old HS10 and HS20 had a memory card slot wherein you could load your custom startup image. They apparently have no such slot on the HS51 and no one has found a way to hack it into the system memory yet. Ah well, nice thought anyway.

reaper

Hey ericeash, why would you want a 100$ dvi to vga cable (converter) when you could just mail the hs51 to be upgraded (free) in laredo, tx? Shipping would be as cheap or cheaper than the cable (that you would no longer need after the update.)??? Just wondering what the benefit would be. jeff

The benefit may be 1:1 pixel mapping for a more precise and accurate image. No one has confired if the Laredo firmware fix allows for 1:1 pixel mapping over HDMI. We only know that it removes the blanking.

reaper

Not knocking the expensive DVI-VGA cable, I'm assuming you are using a DVI-D (minus the analog pins) then using a DVI-VGA convertor at the end of it?

Since using a DVI-I cable and a vga at the end would be fairly pointless, I thought or/read that DVI-I passes 2 signals, 1 is the DVI-D signal in digital form, and 2, the analog signal unaltered via the analog connector pins, which is why a DVI-I -> VGA convertor is usually just a small adpater.

I could be wrong.

hint hint,...HDCP is the major cost on the price.

Oh right, I completely narrowed my view... to HTPC :P hehehe.

Oh so one of those adapters would let an hdcp signal to be sent from dvi to the vga port? Is that right? If so ya I could see that being usefull. If so man everybody with the old vga - hd tvs could use that, Or am I wrong?

Oh right, I completely narrowed my view... to HTPC :P hehehe.

I doubt htpc user bother with dvi>vga connector for hs51.

Oh so one of those adapters would let an hdcp signal to be sent from dvi to the vga port? Is that right? If so ya I could see that being usefull. If so man everybody with the old vga - hd tvs could use that, Or am I wrong?

Yes, they call that a magic black box. It's a godsend for CRT user need to resolve hdcp-dvi to vga for analog display. Imagine how important for analog display to work for the coming Blue-ray/hd-dvd or any source that only works with digital out [hdcp compliant].

Originally posted by jeffropaige
Hey ericeash, why would you want a 100$ dvi to vga cable (converter) when you could just mail the hs51 to be upgraded (free) in laredo, tx? Shipping would be as cheap or cheaper than the cable (that you would no longer need after the update.)??? Just wondering what the benefit would be. jeff

what's up. it's not a dvi to vga cable, as the bravo d2 does not output analog over it's dvi connection. it's a device just like the dtrovision box and the gefen dvi-vga converter. the only drawback is it currently isn't HDCP enabled, but can be upgraded very cheaply. the reason i haven't shipped it to laredo, is they would just ship it back. i have a japanese HS50. i haven't yet called sony japan to see if they have a patch in the works, but i don't want to ship it back. i figure for a hundred bucks, i won't have to send it back, and i'll get 1:1.

Originally posted by ericeash
what's up. it's not a dvi to vga cable, as the bravo d2 does not output analog over it's dvi connection. it's a device just like the dtrovision box and the gefen dvi-vga converter. the only drawback is it currently isn't HDCP enabled, but can be upgraded very cheaply. the reason i haven't shipped it to laredo, is they would just ship it back. i have a japanese HS50. i haven't yet called sony japan to see if they have a patch in the works, but i don't want to ship it back. i figure for a hundred bucks, i won't have to send it back, and i'll get 1:1.

The Momitsu V880 Deluxe has DVI-RGB output (no need for converters). And the Momitsu has custom resolutions for DVI-out to the HS-51. I believe the Bravo D2 has custom resolutions as well.

Food for thought...

So I'm exchanging my HS51 for another that hopefully will have uniform brightness across the entire image and no pixels mis-aligned. I'll let you know how that goes. In the meantime, does anyone else notice any brightness issues? In particular, on the blue screen you get when you start up the PJ, the right side on mine was *much* dimmer than the left side. Anyone else see that?

I've been away for a while enjoying my HS51. Two weeks before the Super Bowl I had DIRECTV install an HD receiver. HD is incredible with the HS51. Everytime someone who doesn't have HD comes over I show them the difference between standard definition and HD and everyone is impressed.

Now to my question:

I'm running a 40' HDMI cable to the projector from my HD receiver. When the projector input is set to HDMI, a couple of times per hour the picture completely cuts out, but not the sound which is going from the HD receiver to my dolby digital surround receiver via a 6' optical cable. I have not noticed any problems when watching DVDs via 40' component cables.

Is there something wrong with the projector? The cable? Or the HD receiver? I have searched for posts regarding blanking, but the posts I have read appear to be addressing another issue regarding the cropping of the picture using HDMI, but I'm not sure.

The only way I thought about debugging is to connect the HD receiver to the projector using the component cables. But if that works the problem could either be the cable or the projector (not the HD receiver).

Originally posted by lonniehansenjr
I've been away for a while enjoying my HS51. Two weeks before the Super Bowl I had DIRECTV install an HD receiver. HD is incredible with the HS51. Everytime someone who doesn't have HD comes over I show them the difference between standard definition and HD and everyone is impressed.

Now to my question:

I'm running a 40' HDMI cable to the projector from my HD receiver. When the projector input is set to HDMI, a couple of times per hour the picture completely cuts out, but not the sound which is going from the HD receiver to my dolby digital surround receiver via a 6' optical cable. I have not noticed any problems when watching DVDs via 40' component cables.

Is there something wrong with the projector? The cable? Or the HD receiver? I have searched for posts regarding blanking, but the posts I have read appear to be addressing another issue regarding the cropping of the picture using HDMI, but I'm not sure.

The only way I thought about debugging is to connect the HD receiver to the projector using the component cables. But if that works the problem could either be the cable or the projector (not the HD receiver).

Are you using a Samsung TS360 HD Directv Receiver????

If so here is a previous post from me regarding connecting a Samsung TS360 to the Sony VPL -HS51 Projector.....

I discovered a problem when connecting a Samsung Directv/HDTV receiver model SIR-TS360 to a SONY VPL-HS51 Projector.

I am on my 2nd VPL-HS51 and can say conclusively that the following problem exists...

Connecting a SIR-TS360 to a VPL-HS51 via DVI to HDMI will result in a loss of signal every so often. This has the same effect as if you disconnected the HDMI cable and then connected it again. The projector will display the HDMI input prompt in the upper left corner each time there is a loss. The problem does not happen when using component input.

I have multiple HD sets in my home and therefore I was able to swap DVI cables, also swap multiple SIR-T360's and even swapped out the VPL-HS51 with another brand new one.

Here is a response from SONY............
This unit appears to be having packet loss due to non-conformity between tuner manufactures and signal broadcasters and the youth of the industry. When talking to certain HD Tuners through the HDMI connection, the effect is that the picture will disappear and "HDMI" will appear in the upper edge of the screen then picture will come back, this will repeat every 10 min or up to an hour. There is no fix for this problem at this time. /per Sony Technician.

I then went out and purchased a Hughes HD Receiver/DVR model HR10-250 and connected it to the VPL-HS51 via HDMI and everything works perfect.

Gary

Originally posted by gdemott
Are you using a Samsung TS360 HD Directv Receiver????

If so here is a previous post from me regarding connecting a Samsung TS360 to the Sony VPL -HS51 Projector.....

I discovered a problem when connecting a Samsung Directv/HDTV receiver model SIR-TS360 to a SONY VPL-HS51 Projector.

I am on my 2nd VPL-HS51 and can say conclusively that the following problem exists...

Connecting a SIR-TS360 to a VPL-HS51 via DVI to HDMI will result in a loss of signal every so often. This has the same effect as if you disconnected the HDMI cable and then connected it again. The projector will display the HDMI input prompt in the upper left corner each time there is a loss. The problem does not happen when using component input.

I have multiple HD sets in my home and therefore I was able to swap DVI cables, also swap multiple SIR-T360's and even swapped out the VPL-HS51 with another brand new one.

Here is a response from SONY............
This unit appears to be having packet loss due to non-conformity between tuner manufactures and signal broadcasters and the youth of the industry. When talking to certain HD Tuners through the HDMI connection, the effect is that the picture will disappear and "HDMI" will appear in the upper edge of the screen then picture will come back, this will repeat every 10 min or up to an hour. There is no fix for this problem at this time. /per Sony Technician.

I then went out and purchased a Hughes HD Receiver/DVR model HR10-250 and connected it to the VPL-HS51 via HDMI and everything works perfect.

Gary

My receiver is a DIRECTV H10 model. Perhaps its manufactured by Samsung. My problem seems identical to what was experienced with the Samsung. Anyone else have issues with the DIRECTV H10 using HDMI to the HS51?

Perhaps I should buy an HDMI DVD player and use component cables between the DIRECTV H10 and my projector?


Lonnie

Any word on the new batch of updated 720p hs51's yet? byte?

Originally posted by jeffropaige
Any word on the new batch of updated 720p hs51's yet? byte?


Many folks are waiting on this new batch of projectors before plunking down the cash.. serial number groups are welcome folks..

F.

Can anyone tell me what changes are in the new batch? I probably won't be buying for another two months so I should be ok but I am still curious.

Thanks byte keep us updated if you get anything new. - jeff

I own the HS-51 and have enjoyed it greatly over the past 6 weeks.

I feed the HS-51 from a HTPC via RGB for dvd viewing and a Dishnet DP811 HD thru HDMI for HD material.

I wish to be able to occasionally view dvd's without firing up the HTPC. The wife is still not certified! The NeuNeo #208 looks like the ideal condidate. I have read most of the posts on AVN regarding the NeuNeo 108 and 208. The 208 upconverts via RGB, HDMI and component, all the way up to 1080P. There are some issues regarding the audio out when selecting HDMI out, but this player has a feature list that looks too good to pass up for only $225.

Does anyone in the HS-51 group have this combo?

Steve

Originally posted by BT1
I own the HS-51 and have enjoyed it greatly over the past 6 weeks.

I feed the HS-51 from a HTPC via RGB for dvd viewing and a Dishnet DP811 HD thru HDMI for HD material.

I wish to be able to occasionally view dvd's without firing up the HTPC. The wife is still not certified! The NeuNeo #208 looks like the ideal condidate. I have read most of the posts on AVN regarding the NeuNeo 108 and 208. The 208 upconverts via RGB, HDMI and component, all the way up to 1080P. There are some issues regarding the audio out when selecting HDMI out, but this player has a feature list that looks too good to pass up for only $225.

Does anyone in the HS-51 group have this combo?

Steve

I'd wait for the 308 (3rd Gen player) before spending any money on 108/208.

Here's what I found:
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Print.aspx?ArticleId=11617

So, a friend of mine is trying to purchase an HS51 and is calling around quite a bit to find out when Sony will be releasing the patched models. One reseller told him today that Sony indicated that this reseller will not be receiving new stock until the middle of may! Not sure if this is true since some resellers are saying middle of March. But it's a heads up for those on the wait.

reap

Guys,
I looked at the 308 player too.
The 308 is not HVD and doesn't upconvert. It seems that it doesn't have HDMI either....but it has karaoke... :)

He just found a model from old stock and ordered it. Guess he's taking his chances with panel alignment and will send it to Laredo for the patch when he feels like it.

reaper

I'm also taking a chance. I ordered from a dealer who has no new stock until March 11. There is a chance( I'm told?) that it could contain the 720 fix. I can't afford to wait until I'm sure. My theater is "dark" and I'm in withdrawal. Bad News.
If I'm wrong after I set things up and resolve DVD player issues( live with old 480p, or get new low cost up-converter, or perhaps the SOWK recipe...all tbd).......there is always Juan in Laredo if no fix...I might even have misaligned panels to cinch the deal..
Four units are coming in to this dealer....I'm #4 in line....lucky me...

Looking at getting an HS51 this year and have started messuring my HT room and I have one question. My throw distance must be 15' due to a recessed ceiling. According to the projector central calculator this will project a 102"dia pic. Thats a bit too large for our taste. Probably will want a 83" dia pic. I assume that that is what the zoom is for but I cannot find anything on the forum or the sony manual that addresses how much you can zoom down to. The projector central calculator does not let you adjust for zoom. Also if you zoom down does this reduce SDE. Not too much of a worry for us since we will be sitting at 12'. Thanks

102" is the min screen size you'll throwing from 15', you can zoom to get bigger than 102 but not smaller.

To reduce screen size, you need to throw less than 15'

Being that the throw distance on this PJ is close to the seating distance for many folks(depending on screen size), how well does it do when the image is shifted up or down? Trying to avoid having the PJ in my lap..:D

A couple of weeks ago I went to a dealer looking for a replacement to my old Proscan 61" RPTV and saw the Panasonic AE700. The setup was far from perfect but I was impressed!

I remember (some) years ago seeing with envy a Runco CRT with Faroudja line quadrupler running the movie Outbreak on a laserdisc ! It was way out of my league (about 50 grand) but nevertheless this was what I considered Nirvana. It was the time when a $5K LCD projector was throwing pixels the size of a golf ball.

FP has come a long way!

After seeing the AE700, I decided to gather everything I could about front projectors:
- reading 29 pages in the Sanyo Z3 thread,
- 59 pages in the Panasonic AE700,
- most of the threads about the BenQ 8700+,
- and all 166 pages in this one.

Today I brought a couple of DVD and went to see the 8700+ and the HS50 with the wife. I was most interrested at knowing if one of us could be affected by RBE for the BenQ or SDE for the Sony. I ask the saleman if we could look at specific chapter of some DVDs with the BenQ.

The setup is a dark room with 8 differents projectors on 2 shelves suspended from the ceiling, screen is a 110" diagonal Vutec, gain unknown. There's only one chair in the middle of the room, about 3 feet in front of the projectors' shelve. Just behind the chair is a sub under 3 big carton boxes. Nice setup!

First, 5th Element (ch.8) when Lilou escape and jump off the building. Looks good, a bit noisy but very bright.

Then LOTR FOTR (ch. 28) when Gandalf lite up a torch in the Moria. I can see some pixelisation around the torch, but the scene looks bright enough to see some subtle details... What's that? On a close up on Gandalf face I can see some motion blur as he moves his head up and down. Then bam! Here's a rainbow, then another... I was looking for rainbows but did not know how subtle this is. It's like a small flash in the corner of the eye. No big deal, I can live with that. Not with the blurring though.

As I stand up to talk to the salesman behind me I look up and... Heh that's not the 8700+! No this is the 5120 he says. Since all 8 projectors (4 on each shelves) are at the same distance of the screen the 8700+ is not far enough so they don't use it! Well, that's the one I want to see, could you...

The salesman is very sympatic but is not familiar with FP and the setup begin to grow on me : he has to bring a ladder to flip the switch on the projector, can't find the remote for the projector nor the DVD player. So I asked if I could use the player myself, he agreed. I put Shark Tale in. My god this is dark! The image is about 1 foot larger than the screen. I pop LOTR to see if there's blurring or RBE. No. This time I cant see any motion blur. Only a bit of RBE when the scene moves from total darkness to a brigther one. Anyway this is much too dark to make a decision.

Now up to the other dealer for the Sony. This one is a big furniture store that has a Sony HS50 on display. The setup is a rectangular room full of RPTV with a FP screen on the large side. The screen is a 92" diag. 1.0 gain. Forgot the brand but it's not a one I've heard of. So this is a much smaller screen than I want (110").

Give the 5th element to the guy. He has to go in another room because everything is on the same source. Pfft. The image is so digital, everything looks soft. I ask what kind of connection he use? COMPOSITE! Could you...thanks.

Then yes babe! Wow! This is it! There's so much detail. Colors are fantastic. Yellows are pure. With LOTR this is even better. So much details. I'm in love. Wife is too. As for SDE, I can see it if I specifically look for it but this is not a problem at all(for both of us). This aint golf balls! It's much less anoying than the scan lines on my Proscan.

I want the thing so bad!

I've promise the wife to wait for the HiFi show in Montreal at the end of the month before writing the check, but I'm pretty sure I'll be a happy HS50 owner not too long after that.

Thanks to all who've contributed to this thread. This was very informative.

But I didn't quite understand this line (particularly the last bit).

"The image is so digital, everything looks soft. I ask what kind of connection he use? COMPOSITE! Could you...thanks."

Thanks in advance for any elaboration.

:)

Sorry that was bad phrasing.

The projector was connected from the dvd to the projector using a composite cable. I ask the salesman to use component (YUV). Both connection were available, they were using YUV for an HD receiver.

I was all... "huh? composite bad? but but but... everyone says that... er.. umm... and I bought all... er... in prep for... erggggh.... [insert sound of brain exploding]"

^_~

Thanks for the clarification.

Originally posted by DirtHerder
I was all... "huh? composite bad? but but but... everyone says that... er.. umm... and I bought all... er... in prep for... erggggh.... [insert sound of brain exploding]"


LOL :D

If you thought COMPONENT looked good - just wait till ypu connect it with HDMI and run a scaled 1280*720 picture.
Seeing your positive comments on comp + what i believe 480p your brain will probably EXPLODE of happines once HDMI and 720p is displayed :D

I am waiting for mine to arrive - i ordered it about the same time everybody ran out of stock (since the factory made changes in the lines for the LCD convergence problems and the firmware update for the 720p blanking issue...thats what i have hears at least).

I really do think this PJ will make you happy for quite a while - i know that i will since i have compared it to both Sharp XVZ2K and Yamaha DPX1000 and IMO the HS50 takes the price. Not as much depth as the XVZ2K but it wins on contrast, blacks and colour fidelity. Allmost as good colours as the DPX 1000 but it kicks the ass out of that machine when it comes to cotnrast, black level, noise a.s.o. Allthough out of the three i would have a hard time to decide the second place - tam or sharp even if the yam is old it was (is9 quite epxensive at about 110 000 Swedish krona when new (about 12 000 Euro) and today about 70 000 SKr (7 500 Euro).

I have allways hated LCD and taken a big step away when i just heard the name but when i saw the HS50 it was love at first sight :D
Pure blacks, excellent detail in dark as well as bright scenes, great colours (when calibrated), and an AWESOME soft and natural looking picture (soft but still sharp if u see what i mean) - it simply lookes stunningly natural and i NEVER IN MY LIFE thought that sony would make a PJ like this one in this price category. I wouldnt say it should cost more but rather that they have made a really good machine (wtih some initials problems that they seem to be about to sort out as we speak).

I cant wait for mine to arrive - when i get it i will test out some different screen samples: Stewart firehawk, stewart grehawk, XUS greyscreen and the 3 different materials from Carada (white, brilliant and grey) and of course my current Euroscreen frame white gain 1.0 - it will be an exciting spring :D

Regards
Boogie

Originally posted by [Europe]Boogiem
If you thought COMPONENT looked good - just wait till ypu connect it with HDMI and run a scaled 1280*720 picture.
Seeing your positive comments on comp + what i believe 480p your brain will probably EXPLODE of happines once HDMI and 720p is displayed :D


LOL

Not counting that my room will be much darker...

I'll probably buy a Denon 3910 too so I guess I'll have to strap my head to keep brain stuff inside :-)

Originally posted by dr00w
LOL

Not counting that my room will be much darker...

I'll probably buy a Denon 3910 too so I guess I'll have to strap my head to keep brain stuff inside :-)

I have both, and it is a very good image!

But I only use the Denon for Audio.

For the Video I use the Bravo D2 thru DVI to a VGA adaptor.

Best possible picture from the Sony HS51!

SOWK,
I am considering your recipe for nirvana downstream. As an alternate to the Bravo D2, have you looked at the similar Momitsu 880DX? Same processing chip but it SEEMS to have the DVI-D to VGA converter built in as well as offering upscaling on the component outputs, and other potentially useful goodies contained. It looks interesting. Does anyone have a reading on this machine? I read marketing hype but little input from people. The "Home Theater" review of it was with a slightly modified machine. and makes a disclaimer regarding what a store purchase machine would yield.
I don't want to invest in in Denon 2910 class of machine at this time.
Thanks all!

Aahhhh... it's so refreshing to hear some positive comments about the unit again. Thanks guys. I know the unit is great but after reading 40 pages of 1:1 pixel mapping and blanking discussions, it's easy to feel overwhelmed by the issues and forget the greatness...

The projector is showing as available on Sony Style.

Pip

On SonyStyle.ca it still shows as "Next-in-Line" (click above to learn more) and the expected arrival date as of March 16, 2005.

If you actually add it to the cart it gives you 2 options: delivery & pickup.
I just checked the pickup and shows as available for pickup at Yorkdale - Sony Store.
I have someone at Yorkdale Sony store and checked what projector they have in stock. They received one with a shipped date of Feb 4. This is the shipped date from their warehouse and probably doesn't have the fix.
Last time I returned mine and checked the one in stock was also shipped on Feb 4. but the serial number was lower than the one I was returning...

Take caution when purchasing.... the only way would be to know the serial #'s of the fixed pj's.

One thing with the Sony store is that they will let me try it in the store before I take it home. Also you have 30 days to return it if you're not happy or satisfied. (Already returned 2)

Originally posted by CORRY


Take caution when purchasing.... the only way would be to know the serial #'s of the fixed pj's.



And we still have no info on what the numbers are, correct?

Originally posted by SOWK
I have both, and it is a very good image!

But I only use the Denon for Audio.

For the Video I use the Bravo D2 thru DVI to a VGA adaptor.

Best possible picture from the Sony HS51!

SOWK. Are you suggesting that the Bravo is better than the Denon for video ?

The one I saw yesterday had the 1.01 version and according to the salesman they received it about 3 weeks ago. Obviously, he did not know about the blanking problem.

There's an HiFi show in Montreal at the end of the month, hopefully there'll be someone from Sony that can give info about serial #

Originally posted by dr00w


There's an HiFi show in Montreal at the end of the month, hopefully there'll be someone from Sony that can give info about serial #

I hope so, while sending the unit to Laredo is not a big deal, I would just as soon not have to do so, OTOH, my dollar bills are dancing around the room, yelling at me they want to be spent..:p

CORRY & Rieper,
The NeuNeo 308 appears to be NOT an upgraded 208 but an simpler machine focussing on other attributes( and half the price of the 208).
Like the Momitsu and a few other boxes it appears to upconvert on component as well, in defiance of DVD forum rules. It also has a VGA output. I can't find reliable reviews on it either so I'm tempted to retain my focus on the Momitsu and the Bravo D2( becoming available from the surprising reseller: Target Stores!)
Decisions! Decisions!

Hey guys, I just went to Sonystyle and guess what I found:

The "ChromaVue™ High Contrast Black Screen"

Do a search for HS51 and it should come up next to the 51. The date is March 31.

-edit, old news I guess, I see it's already in the other thread.

Originally posted by Brian227
SOWK,
I am considering your recipe for nirvana downstream. As an alternate to the Bravo D2, have you looked at the similar Momitsu 880DX? Same processing chip but it SEEMS to have the DVI-D to VGA converter built in as well as offering upscaling on the component outputs, and other potentially useful goodies contained. It looks interesting. Does anyone have a reading on this machine? I read marketing hype but little input from people. The "Home Theater" review of it was with a slightly modified machine. and makes a disclaimer regarding what a store purchase machine would yield.
I don't want to invest in in Denon 2910 class of machine at this time.
Thanks all!

I'd get the Momitsu. I've already posted the custom resolution for the Momitsu specific to the HS-51 a few pages back.

I've since returned the Momitsu because I wanted a higher quality sound for my Audio Refinement/JM labs setup. I went with the Denon 3910.

Nothing but praise for the Momitsu though... Try hkflix.com for your Momitsu DVD-V880-DX.

Originally posted by Brian227
SOWK,
I am considering your recipe for nirvana downstream. As an alternate to the Bravo D2, have you looked at the similar Momitsu 880DX? Same processing chip but it SEEMS to have the DVI-D to VGA converter built in as well as offering upscaling on the component outputs, and other potentially useful goodies contained. It looks interesting. Does anyone have a reading on this machine? I read marketing hype but little input from people. The "Home Theater" review of it was with a slightly modified machine. and makes a disclaimer regarding what a store purchase machine would yield.
I don't want to invest in in Denon 2910 class of machine at this time.
Thanks all!

SOWK:
Are you REALLY saying that the picture of the Bravo D2 DVI -> VGA converted is BETTER than a pure HDMI signal from the Deon DVD3910 that includes the faroudja chipset and also the DPix that when used sparingly improves the picture detail some (with not to much edge enhancement when kept in the 3-4 increase area).

I guess you ARE referring to dvi to analog rgb like this one Adapter DVI to VGA (http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?cat%5Fid=110&sku=26957) and that you put the adapter in the player and run a good computer RGB cable to the HS50 ?
I just dont see how a analog RGB can be better than a digital DVI - RGB or YPbPr signal (i preferred the DVI YPbPr from the Denon 3910 over HDMI)

Sounds incredible for such a cheap machine - only cost about 1/5 of the 3910.

If it is true i must wtart looking where in Sweden (Europe) i can get my hands on a mchine like this and compare it to the 3910 before i decide.
I allready own a Philips DVD963SA so for the sound i am allready quite please even if the 3910 is even better i can allways upgrade the philly with black gate mod a.s.o.

Found a test of the bravo that seems to give it great grades for the PURE DVI signal - unfortunatelly they dont say anything about DVI to RGB (H+V sync). I didnt even think that the RGB H+V sync signal (analog) was integrated in the DVI signal. Well well - one learns something every day :)

Test Bravo D2 test (http://www.hometheatermag.com/dvdplayers/1104vinc/)
Basically the nr of test on this player is infinite when searcing for it on GOOGLE (http://www.google.se/search?hl=sv&q=Bravo+D2+&meta=)

Regards
Boogieman

Originally posted by keenan
And we still have no info on what the numbers are, correct?

I don't know if this is useful but using Byte's link to sony the highest serial number that comes back as needing the firmware is 32840. This serial number range is for the HS-51. I just took my serial number and started working up. The confirmation that service was needed stopped at 32840.

That link and the highest affected number are GREAT news. Now I can finally get off the fence and upgrade. Thanks guys!

Byte you is the man thanks :) Has anyone talked to any dealers who in fact have received the new vpl-hs51's (updated?) jeff

p.s. someone posted earlier that they sent their hs51 to have the 720p and also alignment fixed, juan said they were putting in a new prism assembly, any word on how the unit turned out? (if you got it back yet) jeff

What is potentially even better news is this:

This software upgrade removes the black border and adjusts how the image is displayed in order to maintain high image quality.

Originally posted by Prometheusbound
I don't know if this is useful but using Byte's link to sony the highest serial number that comes back as needing the firmware is 32840. This serial number range is for the HS-51. I just took my serial number and started working up. The confirmation that service was needed stopped at 32840.

Yes, saw the link, now I can go shopping..:D

Originally posted by xamphear
That link and the highest affected number are GREAT news. Now I can finally get off the fence and upgrade. Thanks guys!

Strange...the serial number on my HS50 (as I live in Canada) is 10970...when I enter the number I am told that "..your VPLHS51 Video Projector is not affected by this display issue".

That said...does anyone know/think that there is a different sight for the HS50 vs HS51?

Thanks,

Joel

Originally posted by dr00w
SOWK. Are you suggesting that the Bravo is better than the Denon for video ?

No, not at all.

I am saying if you are going with the Denon 3910, pay the extra $300.00 to get a DVI-VGA adaptor! then the Denon 3910 with still be better then the Bravo D2

But if you hooked up the Denon 3910 to the projector with HDMI, and a bravo D2 with the DVI to VGA converter you would still get a much better picture then then the Denon through HDMI alone.

But the Denon with the DVI-D to VGA converter would be an ultimate setup!

I just took my 51 into the local shop that I bought it from so it could be sent in for the firmware and prism block upgrade. These guys said "no problem" and gave me a brand new 51 still in a sealed box to use until mine comes back! It's not upgraded but what the heck! I guess there is a reason to buy from a local small business!

Received my hs51 from Laredo yesterday (Friday). I shipped my projector to Sony for the 720p masking issue, instead, I received a prism assembly block replacement, and the software update for 720p masking. After extensive testing, here is what I can report:


1) 720p masking through HDMI input is FIXED! Confirmed by Bytehoven, and I am the second to recognize the fix works for HDMI.

2) pixel alignment issues are non-existent.

3) I do not have light-spill. I did notice the light-spill before I shipped it to Sony.

#2 and #3 might be attributed to the prism assembly block, but I can't be certain.

I still can't tell if I am getting 1:1 through HDMI. I will ask the ISF tech coming in next week whether this can be tested using his tools.

Regardless, no more Component-to-VGA for me. HDMI-to-HDMI from cable box and Denon 3910 using Gefen 2x2 HDMI switcher. Picture is flawless via HDMI, and I am thoroughly pleased.

Thank you Sony.


http://img75.exs.cx/img75/4655/epson0238gi.th.jpg (http://img75.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img75&image=epson0238gi.jpg)

Originally posted by reaper
What is potentially even better news is this:

This software upgrade removes the black border and adjusts how the image is displayed in order to maintain high image quality.

I originally thought they might be talking about 1:1. but now I wonder if this was referring to the convergence fix.

reaper

I declare a race betwen Rieper and Bytehoven to see who can confirm 1:1 pixel mapping via 720p HDMI first!

Rieper:

Congrats and thanks for sharing your results.
How did you confirm your panel alignment? Sony menu or a 720p test pattern?

Reiper:

What was the turn-around time?

Originally posted by Minge
Reiper:

What was the turn-around time?

Well, if its just a software update, I'd go with Byte's comments: 3 days I believe.

My turnaround was delayed because of backordered parts; notably the prism block assembly.

Originally posted by dvectord
Rieper:

Congrats and thanks for sharing your results.
How did you confirm your panel alignment? Sony menu or a 720p test pattern?

Thanks.

No 720p test, I'll leave that for the ISF tech coming next week.

I used the Sony Menu, and could see no misalignment. Whereas before, I could clearly make out a purple (red+blue) outline on the Sony menu text.

I found a DVI-to-HDMI cable lying around. I will test 1:1 pixel mapping via HDMI-input later today. Just have to lug my PC case over to the living room.

Can some kind soul post a zip file like Ferret's which has the BMP images for testing 1:1 mapping?

Thanks.

Another question I have is will I lose all my settings when I send my unit in t=for the "fix". I have already had my projector ISF'd. Is it as easy a recording my current settings just in case?

Rieper,

I sent you a PM regarding who your using for ISF calibration.

I'm also in NYC and getting an HS51- (I just sold my Z2 and would like to get the 51 this week but trying to decide when to pull the trigger)

Originally posted by Rieper
Thanks.

No 720p test, I'll leave that for the ISF tech coming next week.

I used the Sony Menu, and could see no misalignment. Whereas before, I could clearly make out a purple (red+blue) outline on the Sony menu text.

I found a DVI-to-HDMI cable lying around. I will test 1:1 pixel mapping via HDMI-input later today. Just have to lug my PC case over to the living room.

Can some kind soul post a zip file like Ferret's which has the BMP images for testing 1:1 mapping?

Thanks.

Rieper,

Post #28 of the tweak thread has an attached 1:1 mapping file. I'm anxiously awaiting your results.

Greg

Originally posted by Greg Stitt
Rieper,

Post #28 of the tweak thread has an attached 1:1 mapping file. I'm anxiously awaiting your results.

Greg

Thanks Greg,

Much appreciated.

I have been enjoying my hs51 for a few weeks now. It is connected via hdmi to a sony 975 dvd player and I have selected 1081i. I tried the 720 and the 480 settings and the 1080i still looks best to me, although with the sony dvd player, you have to stop the dvd to change settings so I cannot change from one setting to another immediately and see what the actual difference is. My gut feeling is that the 1080i is the most film-like, although every setting looks fabulous.

Since I do not understand all the technical talk here, is there any reason I would want to send in the projector for the 720 fix?

Thanks,

Larry

In Addition....

my sony 975 dvd player will out put four video signals via hdmi:

1920x1080i
1280x720p
720x480p
720x480i

As I said in my previous post, all look very good but I keep the dvd player set to 1920x1080i. Will someone explain to me what the difference really is? The only subtle difference I saw in any of them was that the 1920x1080i "felt" the most cinema like. Was this my imagination? Thanks again.

PS: Only the 1280x720p had the black box. But the image inside the box did not look any better then any of the other settings, in fact, it appeared to be more "digital" than the others.

Will someone explain to me what the difference really is? The only subtle difference I saw in any of them was that the 1920x1080i "felt" the most cinema like. Was this my imagination? Thanks again.


If 1080i looks the best on your setup, keep it. I use 1080i on 6412>hs51 not because of 720p issue but it looks the BEST. Trust your judgement for once.
FYI, 1080i to hs51 overscan about 2% so u know.

Mr Zeroendless,

Yes, 1080i is beautiful. Last night, my wife and son and I watched Fifth Element. Wow, the combination of the amazing image on the screen and the great sound on my new sound set up made for a great home theater night. I am making Fifth Element my official demo dvd. By the way, is there also the overscan in the other three settings I mentioned?

Thanks!

Larry

Ok I dont want to break any rules but I have a question. I found a place ( I guess I cant say where because of certain rules) that sells the hs51 For around 2999.00 Not exactly but close ( again dont want to break the rules) But here's the kicker ---a free bulb ( I guess those are worth around 300$ ??) I would have to send in for the 720p fix and prob have the alignment fixed ( prism block assembly) since it has the old prism block. But Im thinking it might be worth it? Any Suggestions on this? Sound like a good deal? thanks jeff

Larsil,

You may not have an immediate need for the fix. But to make it future proof, you may want it. You may have some electronics that will ONLY send 720p. Then, you'd be forced to view a blanked image. For instance, many Xbox games will only ouput 720p. You may not have an XBOX, but there may be some other equipment now or in the future with this problem.

reaper

Thanks Reaper,

Good thought. Do you know anything about the various video settings I mentioned with my sony dvd player. Why one should be better than another and also, is the overscan issue the same with all settings?

Thanks!

Larry

Originally posted by xamphear
I declare a race betwen Rieper and Bytehoven to see who can confirm 1:1 pixel mapping via 720p HDMI first!


Race finished...

If the Sony has the ability to have sharpness control in HDMI mode in 720P it is not 1:1

All rieper or Bytehoven have to do is hook up a HTPC dvi to HDMI, set the Desktop to 1280X720, and they will notice the text is still blurry, very very legible, but not 1:1 pixel mapping.

Also I wish Bytehoven would hook up a HTPC to the VGA, and switch between computer mode, and Video GRB to notice that in 720P Hdmi it is not 1:1 mapping, and the DVI to Vga adaptor is still the only way to get a perfect 1:1 mapping of the image, plus better blacks, and grey tracking!


I have said this many times,I just want you people to start to listen.

Again I have the denon 3910, and a bravo d2

The Bravo D2 from dvi to vga still produces a better image, then the Denon 3910 to the Sony HDMI. both set to 720P. (much better, but if you people arent willing to try it, fine, just want you to know you can still get a better quality from the projector.)

It's not the same with all settings, but according to WSR, 720P and 1080i are the same: "HDTV (720p and 1080i) video had reasonable overscan of 3 to 4 percent." Apparently 480i and 480p are closer to 5%.

I doubt anyone here could really answer why 1080i looks better than 720p definitively. If you think about it, the source on the DVD is 480. The DVD player had to interpolate that source and upscale it to either 720 or 1080. It's adding information that isn't in the source. Then, in the case of 1080i, the projector is removing info that was in the transmitted signal to get it to display on your screen... map to the panels properly.

To really explain why one setting may be better than the other, we'd have to understand the mathematical transform being used to add and subtract info from your sources on both units. It'd probably be a white paper length discussion on the issue.

So, in summary, some one can correct me if I am wrong here... but you're just going to have to go by what your eyes tell you.

If your source was 720p, then it'd be a different story.

reaper

Originally posted by Bytehoven
None of my calibration settings changed when the update was installed.

Thanks Byte I appreciate your help!:D :D

Okay, I'm starting to see conflicting information, or wrong information as the case may be. So I have a question, I have a SDI-modded Denon 5900 feeding a SDI-iSCAN HD+. What input on the HS51 is going to provide the best picture? And if 1:1 mapping provides the best PQ, what input would that be?

If this has been asked and answered then I will hunt through this thread some more.

Thanks.

off topic but here goes...

Can anyone tell me about "dialogue normalization"? On my old denon receiver, you could choose to turn it on or off in the surround set up. On my new Pioneer receiver, it seems to come on automatically and there does not seem to be a control to turn it off. I asked this in the receiver forum and was told that the dialogue normalization comes from the dvd itself. Does anyone know anything about this and does anyone have a pioneer receiver (1014) who has dealt with this?

Thanks.

Larry

Originally posted by Bytehoven
What?

Since when has an image control function like sharpness had anything to do with the source signal being properly 1:1 pixel mapped?

Do the thread a favor and stop pushing this nonsense. You don't know what you're talking about.

Byte,

You're right, of course, that such image control functions have nothing to do with 1:1 mapping, but there is also the idea that an input that bypasses this processing (sharpness and color controls) completely, as Input A does, provides a more direct and maybe cleaner signal path. But then you've added an extra D/A and A/D compared to HDMI. I'm sure looking forward to you guys sorting out all these tradeoffs, so I can decide whether to send mine off to Laredo or not!

Greg

HDMI cannot bypass this process. Why? Easy, HDMI supports YPbPr. The projector HAS to be able to do a color space conversion of this signal to RGB. This is not something that can be avoided.

1:1 pixel mapping has nothing to do with this. 1:1 is simply the projector accepting a 1:1 resolution without breaking up.

Whether or not the PJ allows for color tweaking or sharpness controls has nothing to do with 1:1 pixel mapping, it just shows if it has a bypass control for its video processing.

I don't know why 1080i would look better but I imagine this is totally subjective anyways. What most people think looks "better" compared to what I usually think is two different things so I will take that with a grain of salt. But one idea I have is most people are feeding the PJ from a DVI output of a DVD player. That means they are sending it an 8 bit RGB signal. At 720P the PJ isn't really doing anything to that signal at all. WIth 1080i it is re-processing it down to 720P and the PJ uses 10 or 12 bit processing so that may be improving the image to your eye. This is probably why the 5910 looked so good on it when I fed it at the local dealer. If I set the HDMI output to YPbPr it is sending a true 10 bit signal. If you have a Denon 3910 you should try this as well. It will only work if you go HDMI to HDMI. You can't use the DVI output as it is limited to 8 bit RGB.

Race finished...

If the Sony has the ability to have sharpness control in HDMI mode in 720P it is not 1:1

All rieper or Bytehoven have to do is hook up a HTPC dvi to HDMI, set the Desktop to 1280X720, and they will notice the text is still blurry, very very legible, but not 1:1 pixel mapping.

Also I wish Bytehoven would hook up a HTPC to the VGA, and switch between computer mode, and Video GRB to notice that in 720P Hdmi it is not 1:1 mapping, and the DVI to Vga adaptor is still the only way to get a perfect 1:1 mapping of the image, plus better blacks, and grey tracking!


I have said this many times,I just want you people to start to listen.

Again I have the denon 3910, and a bravo d2

The Bravo D2 from dvi to vga still produces a better image, then the Denon 3910 to the Sony HDMI. both set to 720P. (much better, but if you people arent willing to try it, fine, just want you to know you can still get a better quality from the projector.)

Sowk, you are so negative for a person that doesn't have the fix to confirm 1:1 mapping. Why are you so sure that sony will never fixed the issue? Have some faith. Chill out.

Can anyone confirm This is the correct address to send off the hs51 for Juan da man.

Sony Service Center
10227 Crossroads Loop,
Suite C
Laredo, Texas 78045


I talked to Juan and he said just send it to this address you know if i should address the attn to : Juan [Hs51 720p fix] or??..

Can some kind soul post a zip file like Ferret's which has the BMP images for testing 1:1 mapping?

Rieper, if this is your first attemp to get PC going on display. Make sure the video card the lastest driver to get 720p to hs51. I doubt you need any pattern to see what you planning to see. Load any pixel font, those without smooth effect will do juts fine. if you can read any flash font at size 8, you are good to go.

You should probably include the Sony Work Order #.

I would also include a letter referencing the work order #, Juan, the 720p fix as well as the original Sony customer service reference #.

Where do i get the work order, i asked juan about this and he said he will fill out all the work order, just send it in.

You did mention sony send in pick up for your unit right? Juan said i have to pay to ship it in. I guess if i call Sony for work order i may get the free overnight pick up too? :D Hook me up with the number to call bro!

Thanks Btye, i don't mind paying for the s&h. My main objective is my get alignment fixed while upgrading the FW. I guess Sony is the fastest one to came out with a fix among others having 720p issues. Thanks to your effort.

Did they return the unit via overnight services? thz

Originally posted by Bytehoven


Perhaps you could try your projector with the DVI->HDMI, VGA->VGA and see which input you prefer?



Thanks, I don't have the projector yet, it's just that I had seen some previous posters which contradict somewhat from what you just posted, which BTW, tends to agree with what I was thinking as well.

Ultimately, checking both ways is really the only way to know..:)

Thanks.

Hi folks

I didn't know where to start so I figured this thread about the HS51 would be the right place.

I currently have a VW10 HT that I slowly plan to replace... maybe with a HS51.

I have two noobish questions though:
First, I see the resolution on the HS51 is lower... something like 1280*720 vs. 1366*768. I see a x3 from the specs though, no clue what that means. What would be the highest res I could run if I plugged the projector to my puter?

Then , here in Switzerland, there's only the HS50 in the stores. So... what's the diff between HS50 and HS51? :confused:

Thanx a bunch for the help!
Mike

Originally posted by Dragonmike
I see a x3 from the specs though, no clue what that means. What would be the highest res I could run if I plugged the projector to my puter?

Then , here in Switzerland, there's only the HS50 in the stores. So... what's the diff between HS50 and HS51? :confused:

Thanx a bunch for the help!
Mike

x3 is referring to the fact that there are 3 seperate panels inside the unit creating the image. There's a seperate panel for red, green and blue. They each have 1280x720 pixels. However, they all align to create a single 1280x720 image... (if you're lucky anyway) :). So, the highest res you can drive is 1280x720. Some people liked the higher res of the 1366x768. Others prefer 1280x720 because it is a native HDTV res and you can get 1:1 pixel mapping of the entire image across the entire panel. No odd scaling is required to map 1280x720 to 1366x768.

The HS51 differs from the HS50 by an ethernet port on the front and some included color processing software, It's humorous that the Americans celebrate that we have this and the europeans balk that they do not. However, to the best of my knowledge, no one has used this software for anything productive. I guess it's always better to have the ability than not though.

reaper

Do you have this Sony projector reaper???

I was just curious as I am a local person and was wanting to see this projector in use, I am actually moving close to Fishers (McCordsville) when My house is done in June.

I sent you a PM,

Ben

Thanx a bunch for your answer, Reaper.

That resolution thing is going to be a problem if I want to run games from my computer using the projector I suppose... It wouldn't support anything above 800*600 in this case, right? Not even 1024*768 if I understand correctly?

I was just in the right place at the right time, to take the info public. Someone got the ball rollin' on the 720p update long before I owned the projector.

My projector was returned via Fed Ex standard overnight.

It's off to Laredo this morning. Fedex said it will take couple days with ground from Dallas to Laredo and it costs only $7. I paid Total of $18.xx with Full value issured, ground service. Now i can get projector off my head for a week or two and start research on what len to get for Canon 20D.
You guys up for another Guess-what-sources-this-screen shot game? :D, this time the screenshot should be crystal sharp with 20D.

My HT in the basement will be done next week and I have an hs 50 in the box, a denon 2910, a denon 2105 receiver and a directv HD DVR coming next week. I plan on buying a da lite 106" cinema vison screen once the pj is ceiling mounted and I'm positive about size. I also have Klipsch reference 35's ready to go.

Here's where I'm a bit confused. I really want the best possible picture from DVD & HD TV. How do you recommend I connect the components and PJ?

I'm new at this and was going to connenct both the HD receiver and the DVD to the AV receiver via component video and then go from the AV receiver to the PJ via component video..about 20 feet.

Should I go direct from the dvd to the PJ via hdmi with a switch of some kind? Please explain.

Thanks. Sorry for my ignorance.

George

Originally posted by gsabert
My HT in the basement will be done next week and I have an hs 50 in the box, a denon 2910, a denon 2105 receiver and a directv HD DVR coming next week. I plan on buying a da lite 106" cinema vison screen once the pj is ceiling mounted and I'm positive about size. I also have Klipsch reference 35's ready to go.

Here's where I'm a bit confused. I really want the best possible picture from DVD & HD TV. How do you recommend I connect the components and PJ?

I'm new at this and was going to connenct both the HD receiver and the DVD to the AV receiver via component video and then go from the AV receiver to the PJ via component video..about 20 feet.

Should I go direct from the dvd to the PJ via hdmi with a switch of some kind? Please explain.

Thanks. Sorry for my ignorance.


George

If you want to avoid the switch box, you may consider going with HDMI from the directv HD receiver to the HS50/51, and then feeding your other devices (dvd, etc) to your AV receiver and then having the one set of component wires from the AV receiver to the HS50/51.
Just my 2 cents worth
Friar

Originally posted by zeroendless
Sowk, you are so negative for a person that doesn't have the fix to confirm 1:1 mapping. Why are you so sure that sony will never fixed the issue? Have some faith. Chill out.

I dont need the fix to tell you whats going to happen.

If the sony is still proccessing the image, it will not be 1:1





Please anyone with the Super great fix try this!


Get a htpc,

Connect it to the VGA input,


Bring up the windows desktop at 1280X720 60 Htz

Or bring up some text with word pad!

Try input mode,

computer

then try

Video GBR


And tell me Video GBR is even close to Computer mode for sharpness of text!

Movies and pictures are more difficult to tell, but if your as anal about this stuff as I you will notice a difference!

You all want to know how to get the best picture. Im telling you.

Don't tell me to stop unless you dont care about your image quality.

Please the people that have tryed my reccomendation tell me what you think, and let the other people know I'm not full of poo. lol


I know I'm not the only one how has tired this!

The DVI to VGA converter!

SOWK you may be correct just a little unpolitic in your answers. At this point nobody who is a HTPC user has confirmed the fix corrects the processing. Time should tell though...

Brian

Figured I might as well chime in...

For those late to the party (or this thread as it were), I am one of two reported individuals who received their HS51 back from Laredo, TX service center with the 720p HDMI fix. I was also fortunate to have my prism block assembly replaced (more on this later).

For now though here are my findings...

After extensive testing last night via DVI-to-HDMI (HTPC) I found the following:

(1) the 720p software fix from Laredo does NOT achieve 1:1 pixel mapping through HDMI. VGA is still the only way to achieve 1:1 pixel mapping on the HS51.

(2) The text in notepad via HTPC DVI-to-HDMI is very legible, but it is certainly not as sharp as when I use the VGA-input.

(3) There appears to be some kind of processing to the HDMI input signal, making it more "film-like" than the "digital look" you get via VGA. These are my words though, and is not meant to be a scientific interpretation.

For now it seems, Sony is content in leaving HDMI without 1:1 pixel mapping. I for one, am not going the VGA route as I believe the HDMI is perfectly acceptable as is.

To be clear, the 720-fix is basically to remove the black masking when connecting to the HDMI input with a 720p signal.

As for my prism assembly block replacement, I can now see perfect pixel alignment. As evidenced by viewing the text in Sony Setup menu. Whereas before I could clearly see a shift in blue, I now see a perfectly black outline.

I look forward to hearing more impressions/feedback when people begin receiving their patched HS51's from the Sony service center in Laredo.

Regards,
Steven


My equipment for testing DVI-to-HDMI via HTPC:

http://img223.exs.cx/img223/7393/pic18ii.th.jpg (http://img223.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img223&image=pic18ii.jpg)

Thank you, Rieper.

Now will you people on this forum please take in what I have to say!

I will try to never mislead anyone, with my responces. I am a very big videophile, who has the know how, and understand how the electronics work! I have a great friend that is an electrical engineer, and we talk about these things, before I talk on the Forum.

I wish Byte, would relize he was not getting 1:1 thru HDMI, HD+ or not! he can not turn off the Sony's internal video proccessing! If he was going thru hdmi, he or no one else can get perfect 1:1 mapping. Plus a majority of you huys are using flawed test equipment.

A 480P dvd player, upscaling a test image to 720P cannot, i repeat cannot, tell you if a dfisplay is 1:1 mapping!

1:1 PIXEL MAPPING HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH VIDEO PROCESSING!! It means that the projector is indeed showing each pixel, nothing more, nothing less. The DVDO unit has a one pixel on one pixel off test pattern specifically for this and it IS an accurate test. This is the same test that a calibrator would do with a test generator.

What most of you are referring to is video post processing which is completely seperate. You want what is referred to as a pass through or direct mode. This is completely seperate from 1:1 mapping. The HS-51 HAS to have video processing on the HDMI input since it HAS to be able to perform color space conversion. It is that simple.

Chill out SOWK da videophile, that's what i was saying. LOL....

You got to stop telling people the only way to get perfect picture to hs51 is using the magic box. You are not wrong but your situation doesn't apply to everyone here.

The hdmi 720p reprocess has been well mentioned even if they fixed the masking issue without passing tho. I was plain speculating that if HTPC doesn’t get pass tho then I won't be able to utilize DVI for pc. The signal could be underwent video-mode to enhance movie material without pass tho. If that's the case, isn't that it's fine for user with dedicated dvd-player/set top box using dvi/hdmi to sony?? Why need the magic box? The masking is gone and movie is looking good. I for one have compare both, vga and hdmi from pc with same old finding, you can't tell the different between this two on movie playback. The major draw back I mentioned was this projector is not recommended for regular PC usage such as browsing, gaming, emailing etc.. But hey, guess what...i can use the vga port.

Ps, I am not videophile, I have limited of a/v knowledge mostly reading a piece or two from here and there. :D just a wannabe.

DVI is 8 bits RGB and HDMI can be 8 bits RGB or 8/10/12 YcbCr, if i were to use DVI>HDMI from pc with RGB 8 bits. HDMI is passing tho 8 bits RGB to projector, No round off error, no conversion needed. What am i missing?

Rieper,

Have you put up an overscan pattern from AVIA or DVE with your Denon 3910 yet? I'm curious to know how much overscan there is since you've concluded that 720p HDMI is not 1:1 after the fix. Thanks.

Greg

Originally posted by zeroendless
DVI is 8 bits RGB and HDMI can be 8 bits RGB or 8/10/12 YcbCr, if i were to use DVI>HDMI from pc with RGB 8 bits. HDMI is passing tho 8 bits RGB to projector, No round off error, no conversion needed. What am i missing?

You are not missing anything since the original source is 8 bit RGB. But someone in my situation is outputting 10 bit YCbCr via HDMI into the HS51. Therefore the HS51 has to do a colorspace conversion to RGB and that would be done in the 10 or 12 bit domain. (I don't remember if the Sony is 10 or 12 bit but it is one of the two).

By the way, the high bit processing of the HS-51 is extremelly impressive. When I put up a gray ramp I didn't see a hint of banding at all, which is a rarity in a digital projector. Even the $12k DLPs I've looked at had banding!

Which dealer has the "updated" VPL-HS51 for sale? From reading this thread, it looks like I need serial number > 32840. I would hate to buy one and find out it has to be sent to the service center for a couple of weeks.

Thanks for the info.

Originally posted by Kris Deering
...But someone in my situation is outputting 10 bit YCbCr via HDMI into the HS51. ...

Some guys have all the luck :)

BTY, is there a more affordable solution than using a 5910 to get this kind of performance ?

Originally posted by Rieper
[B](1) the 720p software fix from Laredo does NOT achieve 1:1 pixel mapping through HDMI. VGA is still the only way to achieve 1:1 pixel mapping on the HS51.

Thanks! If the HDMI desktop is NOT as sharp (and sharper!) than the VGA port, then IMO the HDMI is FAR from a perfect 1:1 mapping. Good to know that I can finally put the Sony behind! :D

To Bytehoven, if you see banding on the VGA port, you need to adjust singal timing on the Sony to match the iScan HD output.

regards,

Li On

Sharpness has nothing to do with 1:1 though, 1:1 is referring to the ability to map the resolution.

dr00w,

Anyone using a Faroudja FLI-23xx based player that ouputs HDMI in the YCbCr is most likely outputting 10 bit. The Faroudja is a 10 bit processor. Remember that this doesn't apply to the HDMI RGB output or DVI as those are all 8 bit.

Originally posted by Kris Deering
Sharpness has nothing to do with 1:1 though, 1:1 is referring to the ability to map the resolution.

dr00w,

Anyone using a Faroudja FLI-23xx based player that ouputs HDMI in the YCbCr is most likely outputting 10 bit. The Faroudja is a 10 bit processor. Remember that this doesn't apply to the HDMI RGB output or DVI as those are all 8 bit.

Kris does this apply even to the cheap Panny s97? What does the Pioneer 59AVi send out through HDMI? Sorry for getting off topic. Feel free to PM me with any answers.

Originally posted by awtryau89
Kris does this apply even to the cheap Panny s97? What does the Pioneer 59AVi send out through HDMI? Sorry for getting off topic. Feel free to PM me with any answers.

I would be interested in this answer as well.

I am not sure about the Pioneer. It does output YCbCr via HDMI if selected but that doesn't ensure 10 bit processing.

The S97 uses the Faroudja chip so as long as it has a YCbCr output mode for HDMI it should output 10 bit. Problem is it is impossible to test for with my equipment. I confirmed with Denon's engineers in Japan on the 5910.

A good test is a gray ramp. If you see obvious banding in the gray scale then you are probably only doing 8 bit processing. There are some color ramps that are good for testing this too on AVIA Pro. But if the HS51 is processing the signal regardless of the input, it may not matter and the gray scale will always be smooth.

When we tested this with my 5910, the 51 had the smoothest gray scale ramp I had ever seen on a digital projector.

Has the brightness been measure in other reviews than the one at projectorcentral(240 ANSI lumens), I wonder if they had a faulty bulb or if it´s just that dim.

Kris,
can you get a confirmation that the 3910 also sends out 10bit with HDMI YCbCr?

Just talked to Juan da man and asked him to do the upgrade on my unit which should be there tomorrow. He promised to do pc test on hdmi/vga then get back to me...stays tune.

Originally posted by Kris Deering
I am not sure about the Pioneer. It does output YCbCr via HDMI if selected but that doesn't ensure 10 bit processing.

OT again but how do you select this? Is this the Normal/Enhanced mode for HDMI settings? Thanks.

Originally posted by keyser
lumens), I wonder if they had a faulty bulb or if it´s just that dim.

Kris,
can you get a confirmation that the 3910 also sends out 10bit with HDMI YCbCr?

I would be interested in the knowing if the 2910 does this as well.

Originally posted by zeroendless
Chill out SOWK da videophile, that's what i was saying. LOL....

I for one have compare both, vga and hdmi from pc with same old finding, you can't tell the different between this two on movie playback. The major draw back I mentioned was this projector is not recommended for regular PC usage such as browsing, gaming, emailing etc.. But hey, guess what...i can use the vga port.



Well, you are understanding what I am saying. Thats great.

And I do agree with you that it is very difficualt to tell differences in movies...


For now at least, once HD DVD'd come out it will allow for much fines detail, and making sure you have to best picture will allow the extra little details like snow fall, sweat on someones face, fabric of the clothing an actor is wearing stand out much more!

I'm not tryig to freak out, I just want people to understand that for $300.00 extra investment, they could has the best the Sony can offer!

Not sure if this or the "tweak" thread is the proper place to post, but...

I just got a new HS51 and it has the following ROM:
ROM Version 01.01 / 11.01
SC ROM Version 01.02
IP ROM Version 01.02

Anyone else have these ROM versions? It sounds like the Sony "fix" updates the main ROM to 01.02, so it looks like I'll need to send this in... :( (glad there is a fix, but wish I didn't have to send it in).

Hi,

I just received my HS51 and I have a Prismasonic H-1000 lens en route.
(To be used with a 2.35 AR Silverstar)

Is anyone else using an anamorphic lens with their HS51?

If so, please let me know how you have it installed? I'm going to ceiling mount both, and curious about "clean" ways to get both mounted. I'd like to avoid having 2 poles coming down from the ceiling...

Thanks.

Thanks for the lens mounting tips.

I'm still trying to decide how I want to expand 2.35 material. I'm leaning towards a HTPC (Windows MCE2005).

Not sure what you mean by "format 16:9 material for proper aspect"? The H-1000 has a little knob to move the prisms out of the way (if you will) so non-2.35 material will just pass straight from the HS51 to the screen. (I'm going to have drapes/curtains for masking on 16:9 and 4:3 material.

Thanks again for your efforts in getting the HS51 fix implemented and available to us here at AVS.

Originally posted by Bytehoven
The best way is to try and extend the mounting platform for the HS-51 forward, so you can mount the lens to the same platform.
Once you have an forward extension for the lens, try to get the lens as close as possible, while being able to get access to the zoom and focus controls.
You may need to fabricate in some vertical offset, so the HS-51 lens aligns with the center of the H1000 lens.
What will you be using to process the video signal, to expand 2.35:1 format material to fill the entire 16:9 panel, as well as format 16:9 material for proper aspect?
The HS-51 aspect controls available under 480i should work fine, but they don't work with a hi resolution signal.

Originally posted by MoG
Not sure if this or the "tweak" thread is the proper place to post, but...

I just got a new HS51 and it has the following ROM:
ROM Version 01.01 / 11.01
SC ROM Version 01.02
IP ROM Version 01.02

Anyone else have these ROM versions?
I got my HS-51 in Nov 2004 and it has these ROM versions.

ROM Version 01.01/11.01
SC ROM Version 01.01
IP ROM Version 01.02

so it looks like your HS-51 has a newer SC ROM (whatever that is), but not the main ROM 1.02 as reported by Bytehoven after the 720P fix.

Originally posted by Bytehoven
The $300 investment is not required or necessary for best performance.

How do you know what future HD-DVD or HD-BluRay playback will look like on the HS-51? You don't. Your comment is just another unsupported claim without any basis in fact.

If future HD media looks as good as a current cable HD source, the HS-51 is going to look spectacular without the need to spend an extra $300.


Hum....

First dont talk about the $300.00 - People would have to spend $1500.00 on the HD+, that you were using.

for the HD DVD comment.

Well actually I do. Again if your so hot into this stuff you have a HTPC right?

If you did, you would shut your face about the matter and listen to what I have to say.

BTW, have you tryed any of the Microsoft HD DVD out there yet?

Oh yeah, according to you they don't exist.

Hum.... heres a list byte.

Amazon (IMAX)

Coral Reef Adventure (IMAX)

The Discoverers (IMAX)

Dolphins (IMAX)

Journey Into Amazing Caves (IMAX)

The Living Sea (IMAX)

The Magic of Flight (IMAX)

Speed (IMAX)

Standing in the Shadows of Motown

Step Into Liquid

Stormchasers (IMAX)

Terminator 2: Judgment Day

To the Limit (IMAX)


Here.... even a link.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/content_provider/film/dvd.aspx


I applaud you for getting someone to listen and fix the blanketing issue, no one has done more then that for this forum, but your understanding is flawed. And one comment you made really got to me was when you thought the panels where larger then 1280X720. I was floored by that comment, and when people started to some what agree, I was like oh my god. This forum really can't be that full of (bad word here) people. lol


But again thank you for getting at least someone to fix the basic malfunctions of the unit.

I guess Only the videophile refers wmv-hd as the future "HD-DVD" or "Blue-ray"......... Only in America where we can't have them for now?......LOL

Originally posted by zeroendless
I guess Only the videophile refers wmv-hd as the future "HD-DVD" or "Blue-ray"......... Only in America where we can't have them for now?......LOL

Zero, dont start.

WMV-HD is one of the codec they may be using for HD-DVD, Blue-ray is different yes. But it will still allow for a Super high quality picture if done properly. Also Divx, now has there own HD codec, that works great as well.

Go to Divx.com

Download the Sharktales 720P HD trailer, connect thru VGA, and then the HDMI, and tell me you can;t see that the VGA input is providing a better picture.

You can tell, I wish you guys weren't stuck on last years EDTV techonology to judge a future HD projector, and it performance.

You should only tweak, and look for differences on a high quaility source.

Crap signal in, crap out.

Originally posted by SOWK
Crap signal in, crap out.

Thats a bit over the top. From what I have seen, I would suspect in a blind test, > 99% of people on this forum would not be able to correctly differentiate, when viewing video material, between 1080i over HDMI vs 720p from HTPC/VGA.

Give it a rest.

Originally posted by SOWK
I applaud you for getting someone to listen and fix the blanketing issue I prefer down comforters over blankets, is this going to be an issue if I try to call Sony for repair?

I got this link from Sony http://esupport.sony.com/perl/news-item.pl?mdl_id=3829&news_id=67 for the software upgrade but they did not respond to the alignment issue.

After many years in the hifi video game (and the protests of the better half) I have decided that being an early adopter is not only expensive but it can leave you feeling like you are holding the bag. But without the early adopters and their criticism, it would only take longer to get what's new working the way it is supposed to. After I finish making my screen I will be purchasing and thanks for the serial number break so that I will not have to go the Texas route.

Originally posted by HoustonHoyaFan
Thats a bit over the top. From what I have seen, I would suspect in a blind test, > 99% of people on this forum would not be able to correctly differentiate, when viewing video material, between 1080i over HDMI vs 720p from HTPC/VGA.

Give it a rest.



Good example...

Are you talking about a 480P DVD source upsourced to 1080I (HDMI) and upsourced to 720P for the VGA?

If so, your right, you wont be able to tell much of a difference. (but there are some, and noticable if you look for it!)

Read my post, it is for future HD source material. And yes at that point you will be able to tell a difference!

Sowk, you certainly believe you got it all... what make you think you the only person approach hd with pc or perhaps dvhs to this projector. Silly it may sounds but Sorry you still stuck in CLIP era. I got Tera Bytes TS hd from ota to premium hd not counting dvhs, i am bit over these clip thingies

Originally posted by xamphear
I prefer down comforters over blankets, is this going to be an issue if I try to call Sony for repair?

Hey, are you being smart???

By the way, I was just using terms the forum members used to describe the Masking issue for the 720P proccessing.

Go to, search this forum for Blanketing, and don't try to sound cool, by making fun of statments others in this fourm know and use.

Originally posted by zeroendless
Sowk, you certainly believe you got it all... what make you think you the only person approach hd with pc or perhaps dvhs to this projector. Silly it may sounds but Sorry you still stuck in CLIP era. I got Tera Bytes TS hd from ota to premium hd not counting dvhs, i am bit over these clip thingies

Im glad you have some material you can use to prove my point, Now please try watching them in 720P vga, vs HDMI and tell us you can see a difference.

Im glad you have some material you can use to prove my point, Now please try watching them in 720P vga, vs HDMI and tell us you can see a difference.

I had and perhaps you missed my plain screen shots but that wasn't done with proper setting. I don't comment unless i have all the variables counted in the testing enviroment. And perhaps you missed my last few post again, it's on its way to Juan da man, no can't compare right now...LOL

Originally posted by SOWK
Hey, are you being smart???

By the way, I was just using terms the forum members used to describe the Masking issue for the 720P proccessing.

Go to, search this forum for Blanketing, and don't try to sound cool, by making fun of statments others in this fourm know and use.

The term is BLANKING no ET. Buy a clue.

When you act like such a know it all you lose all credibility when you incorrectly use such a basic term. This forum is generally populated with people who are very informed and polite, stop thinking you so ALL knowing and be more of the later. Members like Bytehoven ( over 2000 posts in 2+ years) spend time helping many people on the forum and it is people that act like you that jump in and drive them away.

Scot

Originally posted by ScotOlson
The term is BLANKING no ET. Buy a clue.

When you act like such a know it all you lose all credibility when you incorrectly use such a basic term. This forum is generally populated with people who are very informed and polite, stop thinking you so ALL knowing and be more of the later. Members like Bytehoven ( over 2000 posts in 2+ years) spend time helping many people on the forum and it is people that act like you that jump in and drive them away.

Scot

Hey, Scott.

Do what i told on the bottem of my post, search for blanketing, and you will notice others have used this. Not just me smart butt. And the word Blanking is incorrect as well. It is a masking problem thats all. Or any other made up "sientific" word someone wants to call it.

Really what is it, well the sony stops displaying actual image near th edges of the unit in 720P mode. enough said.

Now theres a fix thanks to Byte.

So we wont need to use words like

Blanketing
Blanking
masking

:)

Sorry, for being a know it all. lol

But I did ask for help at one point about the Denon 3910 DVD player about Audio. And I got some very wrong answers. Long story, and still never got an answer. Well the right one.

Anyone searching for a reason to patch their HS51s, some info came out about the next Xbox today. Not 100% sure if it's true or not, but it sounds true. And amongst the info:

"The baseline is 720p at 1280x720 for gameplay and video clips, 16:9 aspect ratio, 5.1 Surround Sound, and anti-aliasing. These features are the current minimum requirement."

So, there may be many games that run at 720p on that platform... if you're into gaming, you might care. I do. :)

Originally posted by reaper
Anyone searching for a reason to patch their HS51s, some info came out about the next Xbox today. Not 100% sure if it's true or not, but it sounds true. And amongst the info:

"The baseline is 720p at 1280x720 for gameplay and video clips, 16:9 aspect ratio, 5.1 Surround Sound, and anti-aliasing. These features are the current minimum requirement."

So, there may be many games that run at 720p on that platform... if you're into gaming, you might care. I do. :)

Reaper this is great news.

Totaly seperate from you reaper....

Also another reason to buy my crappy, not needed $300.00 device

Why would you want my device?

Hum...

1:1 Pixel Mapping for the sharpest image possible from your games. But if you don't want a super sharp image, then fine by me, but when Im wopping up guys up over X-box live becuase of my more defined image, just remeber what I said.

Not every source need the $300 convertor.

Do we know Xbox2 only Has ONE output, plain ONE DVI/HDMI with HDCP and not even with its own xbox output console??? Then one need to spend $300 for hs51. I seriously think MS is that dumb to limit the sale....LOL.

SOWK

There you go again with that 1:1 mapping thing. Does it really need to be spelled out??

1:1 MAPPING HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IMAGE SHARPNESS!!

So your VGA input looks sharper then your HDMI input, hoorah for you!! We know already. But I think most people here can make up their own minds. Your credibility would probably rise it you stopped ragging on everyone. If I remember correctly you don't even have a HS51 with the new updates, so how can you begin to comment on its performance?

Hey guys, it takes 2 to argue. Why don't we just let this go? Everyone who reads the thread is now aware of the opinions on both sides of the argument. They are all adults who can make up their own mind about a vga adapter.

THANK YOU I was getting tired of it too. :)

Originally posted by zeroendless
Not every source need the $300 convertor.

Do we know Xbox2 only Has ONE output, plain ONE DVI/HDMI with HDCP and not even with its own xbox output console??? Then one need to spend $300 for hs51. I seriously think MS is that dumb to limit the sale....LOL.

No the X-box 2, will probably have multiple ouputs. But from 2 outputs. One for Digital, one for Analog, just like the Gamecube. But I think you will to purchase the individual connectors.

I actually don't think Microsoft will use a First-Party HDMI though, as Sony has had its hand in the making of it.

So I beleive for HDMI we will need to use a third-Party cable!


I will leave the battle once people stop saying that you getting the best performance out of the HS51 thru HDMI. Its not true. with the Fix or not.

Its not 1:1 mapping, Has worse Greyscale tracking (aka some slight Black crush), and proccessing to the image.

With the VGA you fix every problem, and get a better image. Thats all.

"Its not 1:1 mapping, Has worse Greyscale tracking (aka some slight Black crush), and proccessing to the image.

With the VGA you fix every problem, and get a better image. Thats all."- quote swok

Thats pretty sucky if its true. jeff

Yes it is sucky, I wish I didnt have to buy a $300.00 adaptor to get around the inherant problems of the Sony.
The biggest differences I saw is when I was running Soul Caliber 2 720P from my X-box thru a VGA box, in computer mode, it was remarkible, blacks where great, no proccessing, and shading was aswome. Then I swithed to Video GBR - same internal proccessing that HDMI uses, and the image was hard to follow - Almost like a motion blur, blacks were crushed, and I lost alot of shadow detail. It only looked as good as a very well calibrated rear projecton TV. While in computer mode, it was way above anything I have seen except maybe a well tweaked pro CRT computer monitor.

So you need a player like the Bravo D2 to use the input A computer mode? The Panasonic S97 can't be used because you have to use DVI-? output? Just trying to understand the necessary setup.

Morten

mskp, yes you can use a Panasonic s97. Just use a HDMI to DVI converter, about £30. HDMI and DVI are compatible.
Hope that helps.
Jez

Can anyone tell me a good setup DVD for LCD projectors? I have set up my HS50 using Avia. I ended up with a value of 60 for brightness and 63 for contrast. Having compared my image to a CRT projector using a very harsh test case, dark scene from moulan rouge, will post time or chapter if anyone is interested, I have found that the setup really wasn't very good. Blacks tended to fall off very quickly and looked flat, and undetailed. I have calibrated the pj by eye using that scene and now have something far more satisfying...to me at least. I forgot the resulting brightness and contrast but will post again, if anyone is interested. Has anyone else experienced this with Avia?

Originally posted by LimeLizzards
mskp, yes you can use a Panasonic s97. Just use a HDMI to DVI converter, about £30. HDMI and DVI are compatible.
Hope that helps.
Jez

Thanks for your help. Just to make sure:

Then I'd need a DVI to VGA converter? So I don't need a "converter box" - it can be done using only special cables?

Originally posted by jeffropaige
"Its not 1:1 mapping, Has worse Greyscale tracking (aka some slight Black crush), and proccessing to the image.

With the VGA you fix every problem, and get a better image. Thats all."- quote swok

Thats pretty sucky if its true. jeff

The good news is that it is not true! :)

Originally posted by Kris Deering
1:1 MAPPING HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IMAGE SHARPNESS!!

Sorry for chucking in two cents from the sidelines, but I have been wondering about this since the first time it was posted. I am assuming that 1:1 mapping means that each pixel in the source signal is mapped to an individual pixel in the display. Wouldn't this mean that the image would be sharper (in terms of being more true to the original) in comparison to anything other than a 1:1 mapping? For example, if I sent in a 720*1280 picture and this was mapped to 700*1240, this would most likely result in quite a bit of aliasing (most likely resulting in a softer image). I understand that in terms of pixels each pixel would be as sharp as ever, but the image being projected would not be as sharp as the source. In the case of a DVD image that is upscaled externally to 720, I would expect that it would not be preferable to remap the signal again within the projector?

- CoreSmack

mskp. no, unfortunately. From S97 you go HDMI out to a HDMI -> DVI cable converter then the DVI socket plugs into SWOKS magic black box which converts to VGA then into the (vga)input a on the back of the hs50/51. It's not especially tidy, and doesn't work for me. I have a pal system, ie 50Hz and still get blanking on 720p. Others have reported otherwise though so it's not consistent.

Originally posted by CoreSmack
Sorry for chucking in two cents from the sidelines, but I have been wondering about this since the first time it was posted. I am assuming that 1:1 mapping means that each pixel in the source signal is mapped to an individual pixel in the display. Wouldn't this mean that the image would be sharper (in terms of being more true to the original) in comparison to anything other than a 1:1 mapping? For example, if I sent in a 720*1280 picture and this was mapped to 700*1240, this would most likely result in quite a bit of aliasing (most likely resulting in a softer image). I understand that in terms of pixels each pixel would be as sharp as ever, but the image being projected would not be as sharp as the source. In the case of a DVD image that is upscaled externally to 720, I would expect that it would not be preferable to remap the signal again within the projector?

- CoreSmack

Core, your right it is sharper. Some people on this forum dont know enough about the basics to understand what your talking about.
This is common knowledge among computer geeks like me. But For some that just got into this stuff for HT only, maynot understand the basics of this.

Thanks for being a smart AVS Forum member! I want to hear more from you! I think you will agree with eveything I had stated in all of my posts.

Originally posted by HoustonHoyaFan
The good news is that it is not true! :)

It is true, and don't come in and say its not. What testing have you done? Any, do you own the Sony HS51/50?

Have you hooked up a HTPC to VGA - watched a HD source, and Switched from Computer mode to Video GBR?

If not, keep your WRONG comments to yourself.

Originally posted by mskp
So you need a player like the Bravo D2 to use the input A computer mode? The Panasonic S97 can't be used because you have to use DVI-? output? Just trying to understand the necessary setup.

Morten

Nope, if the player has HDMI, or Componet output you can get it to go into input A


For Hdmi use

HDMI to DVI - Then the converter

For Componet use

Componet to VGA Adaptor



**** unfortunatly unless the player can upsource to 720P thru componet the second option will not work they way you will need it to ****

Originally posted by LimeLizzards
mskp. no, unfortunately. From S97 you go HDMI out to a HDMI -> DVI cable converter then the DVI socket plugs into SWOKS magic black box which converts to VGA then into the (vga)input a on the back of the hs50/51. It's not especially tidy, and doesn't work for me. I have a pal system, ie 50Hz and still get blanking on 720p. Others have reported otherwise though so it's not consistent.

Thanks for explaining. I'll be using HS50 50HZ also so I think I'll just use regular HDMI output at 720p if Sony decide to include the fix on new HS50's... (still haven't received mine - I placed the order more than 2 months ago at a UK website:( )

Originally posted by mskp
Thanks for your help. Just to make sure:

Then I'd need a DVI to VGA converter? So I don't need a "converter box" - it can be done using only special cables?


I think you will still need the converter.

Unless your HDMI output can send an Analog signal at 720P, then a DVI to VGA Cord will not work.


I don't know of any players that can output analog thru HDMI.

Originally posted by LimeLizzards
mskp. no, unfortunately. From S97 you go HDMI out to a HDMI -> DVI cable converter then the DVI socket plugs into SWOKS magic black box which converts to VGA then into the (vga)input a on the back of the hs50/51. It's not especially tidy, and doesn't work for me. I have a pal system, ie 50Hz and still get blanking on 720p. Others have reported otherwise though so it's not consistent.


Sorry, Good point LimeLizzard.

I can only confirm this works at 60Hz, never tryed a 50Hz device. If its NTSC you should be ok.

Originally posted by mskp
Thanks for explaining. I'll be using HS50 50HZ also so I think I'll just use regular HDMI output at 720p if Sony decide to include the fix on new HS50's... (still haven't received mine - I placed the order more than 2 months ago at a UK website:( )

Actually, most people have gotten better results with 1080I then 720P.

And you can Bypass the 720P issue.

Although when I tested HDMI, I still though 720P looked better, and sharper then 1080I, so untill I got my Magic Box, I used 720P HDMI.

Originally posted by SOWK
Core, your right it is sharper. Some people on this forum dont know enough about the basics to understand what your talking about.
This is common knowledge among computer geeks like me. But For some that just got into this stuff for HT only, maynot understand the basics of this.

Thanks for being a smart AVS Forum member! I want to hear more from you! I think you will agree with eveything I had stated in all of my posts.

SOWK, for the moment I agree with you that a 1:1 mapping should produce a picture more true to the original (but I may be wrong, still awaiting replies), but I will also agree with anyone who states that I should let my eyes decide which is best. Who knows, a non-1:1-mapping may even produce a more pleasing image. I am still waiting for confirmation on updates that will fix any problems in the HS50 (Europe, sigh) and until then I won't be able to test anything; but if I get the chance I will make sure to compare VGA and HDMI for myself.

- CoreSmack

Originally posted by CoreSmack
SOWK, I'll probably never know if I do agree with all you've written as your posts are generally not a pleasure to read, so I won't be going back to check them :( . For the moment I agree with you that a 1:1 mapping should produce a picture more true to the original (but I may be wrong, still awaiting replies), but I will also agree with anyone who states that I should let my eyes decide which is best. Who knows, a non-1:1-mapping may even produce a more pleasing image. I am still waiting for confirmation on updates that will fix any problems in the HS50 (Europe, sigh) and until then I won't be able to test anything; but if I get the chance I will make sure to compare VGA and HDMI for myself.

- CoreSmack

You should at least find my review of the HS51. It is very long and informative. I think you will enjoy it.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=5037602&highlight=review#post5037602

mskp
I got mine from www.discounttv.co.uk...£1600 got it in two weeks, but I hear there are long waits now. Maybe you'll get lucky and get a fixed version out of the box. 1080i is the way to go if not though. Looks almost identicle to me to 720p and has no blanking issues.
Jez

Originally posted by LimeLizzards
Can anyone tell me a good setup DVD for LCD projectors? I have set up my HS50 using Avia. I ended up with a value of 60 for brightness and 63 for contrast. Having compared my image to a CRT projector using a very harsh test case, dark scene from moulan rouge, will post time or chapter if anyone is interested, I have found that the setup really wasn't very good.
I don't know of a better disk, but setting the brightness (black level) is a little tricky because of the auto iris. Avia has several patterns for setting black level, but you will get a different settings with different patterns if the overall brightness changes because the iris will adjust. I set the black level with several of them, wrote down the numbers, then picked the average. It was the best compromise I could think of.

As good as the black levels are, I don't know if it is possible to adjust them to be as good as a CRT. I doubt a different disk would help.

Originally posted by SOWK
You should at least find my review of the HS51. It is very long and informative. I think you will enjoy it.


SOWK, I just finished reading your review; thank you for a vivid account! It does make me want to see the difference myself (I have seen a pre-update HS50 on 720p and thought it looked great; I find it difficult to believe a great improvement is possible). In the review you mention a gallery but I couldn't find a link; could you direct me to it?

- CoreSmack

Originally posted by CoreSmack
SOWK, I just finished reading your review; thank you for a vivid account! It does make me want to see the difference myself (I have seen a pre-update HS50 on 720p and thought it looked great; I find it difficult to believe a great improvement is possible). In the review you mention a gallery but I couldn't find a link; could you direct me to it?

- CoreSmack

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showgallery.php?ppuser=7480544&cat=500&thumb=1

Only problem you might run into, is if your going to have to buy the HS50.

If you can hook up a HTPC you should be ok!

I just got my HS51 from Sony's Laredo Center updated with the 720p fix and the picture looks fantastic!!! I have one question: would the 720p fix diminish the screen door effect (SDE) on the HS51? I'm a newbie on front projectors and I like to say that it does improve SDE, but I just like to know if there is a technical reason behind it. Thanks!!!

Originally posted by srolon
I just got my HS51 from Sony's Laredo Center updated with the 720p fix and the picture looks fantastic!!! I have one question: would the 720p fix diminish the screen door effect (SDE) on the HS51? I'm a newbie on front projectors and I like to say that it does improve SDE, but I just like to know if there is a technical reason behind it. Thanks!!!

Well, it should not have made the SDE better, but congradulations if it did.

If they did the panel convergance fix for you too, you should actually see more SDE. But Im glad your happy with the unit after the fix.

I just got my HS51 from Sony's Laredo Center updated with the 720p fix and the picture looks fantastic!!! I have one question: would the 720p fix diminish the screen door effect (SDE) on the HS51? I'm a newbie on front projectors and I like to say that it does improve SDE, but I just like to know if there is a technical reason behind it. Thanks!!!

Did you check before sending it how many pixel misalignment you got?
Does the return billing say anything about replacing prism assembly block? When did you send it in and how long the turn around? Thanks

Originally posted by zeroendless
Did you check before sending it how many pixel misalignment you got?
Does the return billing say anything about replacing prism assembly block? When did you send it in and how long the turn around? Thanks

No I didn't check for pixel misalignment and the return billing didn't mention that the prism assembly block was replaced. I shipped it FedEx last week (Wednesday) and got it back yesterday (Tuesday).
Before the 720p fix I had the projector set up at 1080i. Front row seating distance 14 feet w/SDE visible by me (my wife and daughter never noticed it). Back row seating distance at 17 feet and no SDE visible.
Now after the 720p fix SDE is barely noticeable when sitting in the front row.

Originally posted by srolon
I just got my HS51 from Sony's Laredo Center updated with the 720p fix and the picture looks fantastic!!! I have one question: would the 720p fix diminish the screen door effect (SDE) on the HS51? I'm a newbie on front projectors and I like to say that it does improve SDE, but I just like to know if there is a technical reason behind it. Thanks!!!

YES! I'm glad you mentioned this.

I previously noticed SDE at 11 feet back with my HS51.

After receiving my HS51 back from Laredo, I too noticed there was no apparent SDE visible. So I'm glad to hear that you are seeing the same SDE removal as I am. Makes me wonder if I should thank Juan in Laredo for this.

Another reason you guys should consider shipping your HS51's to Laredo.

*possible SDE removal* (no need for IMX Lens)

Originally posted by Rieper
After receiving my HS51 back from Laredo, I too noticed there was no apparent SDE visible

Larger pixels? Stronger lamp?

Originally posted by Rieper
YES! I'm glad you mentioned this.

I previously noticed SDE at 11 feet back with my HS51.

After receiving my HS51 back from Laredo, I too noticed there was no apparent SDE visible. So I'm glad to hear that you are seeing the same SDE removal as I am. Makes me wonder if I should thank Juan in Laredo for this.

Another reason you guys should consider shipping your HS51's to Laredo.

*possible SDE removal* (no need for IMX Lens)

Thats very interesting. Now I may be interested in the update!


Can everyone with the fix confirm this?

Originally posted by Bytehoven
Hey Scot...

I'm not going anywhere.

Sometimes you just have to ignore such ravings, even if it means there are going to be sheep who blindly follow, and fork over $300 for a unnecessary hack box.

I plan to simply ignore SWOK from here on out, blanketing his comments from consideration.

:D


Well, this is coming form someone who thinks the LCD panels are larger then 1280X720.

Also I hope your Blanking out, and stop telling people usless info.


Like I said the only good thing you have done so far is get a fix for the Sony Blanketing, Blanking, masking issue! Thanks!

enough sowk, chill it
don't let me bring out the iscan hd+ incident

No need for attacks here. Put a lid on it or we will.

Everyone just relax and get back on topic without the personal attacks.

Originally posted by LimeLizzards
Can anyone tell me a good setup DVD for LCD projectors? I have set up my HS50 using Avia. I ended up with a value of 60 for brightness and 63 for contrast. Having compared my image to a CRT projector using a very harsh test case, dark scene from moulan rouge, will post time or chapter if anyone is interested, I have found that the setup really wasn't very good.
You might also try viewing the Avia gray scale ramps and changing the Gamma setting. The WSR article said that Off was closest to NTSC standard, but with my HTPC I prefer Gamma 1. At Off I don't see much difference in the bars at the black end of the ramps. With my Sony DVD player over HDMI, Gamma Off is fine, so it may depend on the gamma of the source.

I sent my brand new HS51 in, zero hours on it (because I am still waiting for my screen to be delivered), to Juan and the Laredo gang. It was received on March 4 and I received it back on March 8.

The "Final Invoice Warranty Receipt" states in the Description of Parts or Service:

"CONSTANT DISTORTED PICTURE ELECTRICAL ADJUSTMENT"

Is that the description for the 720P fix? I do not yet have an HDMI source to test my projector to see the results of the service.

I may call Juan tomorrow just to check, but I am hoping some of you who already have your HS51 returned from the Laredo repair facility with the 720P fix can post what your accompanying invoice describes as the service performed.

-------------------------------------
Ron Party

What a difference a screen makes!

I've been running my HS50 off a coffee table onto a tan coloured wall since collecting it in mid December. Although I never thought it was a dull projector, I thought it could use a little boost in its light output.

Yesterday I finally got around to mounting it on the ceiling and (after saving up my hard earned $$$) put in a 96" electric screen (1.1 gain). Now the image has a lot more "pop" and can be watched with ambient light in the room (OK for sports, kids shows etc. I still do all critical viewing in a dark room).

I have also upgraded my old Tosh dvd player (interlaced only via s-video) to a Denon 2910. I now see the masking issue on 720p, so I run it at 1080i. I now have a lot of recalibration to to.....

Anyone else have the HS50 / 2910 combo? Any tips for settings on the 2910 etc ?

Cheers.

The method for dtermining whether or not the eeprom/software upgrade has been made was previously posted -- namely enter the FACTORY MENU and check the SC ROM version.

That said:

1. Is there a similar method of determining whether the PRISM has been upgraded; and

2. If the answer to 1. is yes then what is the method and what are the metrics to look for?

Many thanks,

Joel


For those still interested in my saga Sony Canada is prooving difficult to deal with. Current status is that they are claiming that there is nothing wrong with the projector and that they are not aware of any issues -- this even after the fact of pointing them towards the Sony US websit and this forum.

There latest offer was for me to retun the projector to my dealer for a full refund. Does not sound to me that they are too concerned with customer service. Problem is.... the SOny looks best to my eyes and I want one that is properly fixed. Any suggestions, noting that I am thinking of driving down to Buffalo to pick one up...anyone know of a resonably price place to pick one up?

"CONSTANT DISTORTED PICTURE ELECTRICAL ADJUSTMENT"

Mine is at Juan's hand now but i can take a wild guess, VB.....

Now you remind to cal juan tomorrow see what he can do to reduce VB on my box. Thanks!! :D

I was sort of looking forward to the personal attacks. Kind of like the AVS forum version of professional wrestling.

Any update on when revised projectors from Sony will ship?

Originally posted by zeroendless
enough sowk, chill it
don't let me bring out the iscan hd+ incident

Whitch one? News to me!

Originally posted by zeroendless
Mine is at Juan's hand now but i can take a wild guess, VB.....

Now you remind to cal juan tomorrow see what he can do to reduce VB on my box. Thanks!! :D VB? It was my impression that the HS51 was almost completely free of vertical banding... Is that not the case? I did searches in both this and the tweak threads on the HS51 and almost no one is talking about VB... What's the real deal?

Originally posted by xamphear
VB? It was my impression that the HS51 was almost completely free of vertical banding... Is that not the case? I did searches in both this and the tweak threads on the HS51 and almost no one is talking about VB... What's the real deal?

He said "wild guess"... I would say it is a wild guess. No one has ever mentioned VB as an issue on this board, if memory serves.

Originally posted by emailists
I was sort of looking forward to the personal attacks. Kind of like the AVS forum version of professional wrestling.

Any update on when revised projectors from Sony will ship?

I like stirring it up! :P

But I do respect everyone on this forum. We are all here to help out fellow HS50/51 owners!

(I just know I got it right in the first attempt! :))

I have been doing this for years, and have the experience to know when a image is at its best. I'm a little Obsessive Compulsive when it comes to Audio, and Video.

Most of my tweak posts unfortunately are based off the HS51 US version, and I can't confirm they work at all for the HS50 (due to it being Pal, vs NT SC)

Many of you stat that I loose credibility due to my type of posts...

if that what you want to believe, fine, but if you ever used my methods for the HS51 or a HT-PC for the HS50/51 you will realize I'm not blowing smoke.

Also I want to thank all the people that send me Personal Messages often.

I do appreciate the input, about my posts. and I'm glad I have converted some of you to the light-side! (AKA. better projecting Sony HS51)

But I would love if you could also write back into the forum and let people know that my methods work!

As for the rest, I don't think my posts will chg much, as it adds a nice drama to the forum. Some really enjoy coming to the forum just for that reason. This forum is slowing down a lot, 4 to 5 posts a day! We need reason to be hyped all the time!




Oh yeah, plus my screen name is an oxymoron, as I am Someone who knows very little about speeling correctly ;)

Originally posted by Rieper
He said "wild guess"... I would say it is a wild guess. No one has ever mentioned VB as an issue on this board, if memory serves.

******UPDATE******

VB

Well it is an issue!!!!
******************




Just with other projectors! lol

Just having some fun.

As for the rest, I don't think my posts will chg much, as it adds a nice drama to the forum.
SOWK, last warning. You keep stirring it up and you will get a temporary ban. MP and I have already warned you once.

If you have a problem with this, PM me! If you bring this issue out on this forum expect it to get deleted and your name will be passed on to the Alan.

Last warning.

Everyone else, please ignore him. He'll move on if he can't bait anyone.

Closed temporarily.

Open for business.

Originally posted by CoreSmack
Sorry for chucking in two cents from the sidelines, but I have been wondering about this since the first time it was posted. I am assuming that 1:1 mapping means that each pixel in the source signal is mapped to an individual pixel in the display. Wouldn't this mean that the image would be sharper (in terms of being more true to the original) in comparison to anything other than a 1:1 mapping? For example, if I sent in a 720*1280 picture and this was mapped to 700*1240, this would most likely result in quite a bit of aliasing (most likely resulting in a softer image). I understand that in terms of pixels each pixel would be as sharp as ever, but the image being projected would not be as sharp as the source. In the case of a DVD image that is upscaled externally to 720, I would expect that it would not be preferable to remap the signal again within the projector?

- CoreSmack

I don't know if it's fair to assume that just because a display device with a native resolution of x * y is passed an input with that same x * y resolution, that the display does indeed do a 1:1 mapping. It might, but it's not necessarily guaranteed.

When doing signal processing, often the signal is processed using higher resolution than the resolution of the inputs or outputs. For example, digital audio processing, though primarily passed a 16 bit input signal, is routinely processed using 24, 32, 40, 48, 64 or even 128 bit calculations.

Many digital video processing algorithms are tuned to work at specific resolutions. When a video signal is passed to a device and the resolution of that input signal does not exactly match the optimal resolution of the video processor, the input is often converted to the video processor's optimal resolution before being processed.

For example, a signal with lower resolution than the video processor is capable of processing is routinely upsampled (interpolated) to the video processor's resolution. A signal with higher resolution than the video processor is capable of processing is routinely downsampled (decimated) to that resolution. The signal is then processed by the video processor and then interpolated/decimated, if necessary, to the device's output resolution.

I have no idea what type of video processing the HS51 has or what resolutions the video processor can process, though I would not be surprised if the video processor was capable of processing a higher resolution than the LCD panels are capable of displaying. The differences people are seeing may not even be resolution/mapping related. It may be that Sony engineers assumed that HDMI and component inputs were largely used in home theater applications so when given a signal over those inputs the video processor does something to make the image smoother and more "film-like". They may also have assumed that the VGA input was more likely computer display type images and do less processing on the signal. That may be why some people perceive a sharper image on VGA than HDMI.

The bottom line is that unless someone gets definitive information on the inner workings of the HS51 everything is speculation about 1:1 mapping, image processing, differences between inputs etc.

In the end the only thing that really matters is how well your satisfied when you look at the images it projects. In my case, when sitting on a sofa watching movies, it's a darn good picture.

And for the record, to my HS51, I run component from my Comcast 62xx series cable box and HDMI from my Denon 2910 DVD player. Both boxes are set to output a 720p signal. To my eye, the image from the HS51 looks better to me when fed a 720P signal from the source, than when given a 1080i signal. I have not tried the VGA input nor any of the conversion cable things that have been mentioned here.

Best regards,
Nas

Ok, guys, I've been lurking here for months while building a new demonstration theater for my custom install business. . .that happens to be located at my home! It may be a major mistake, but I broke down and placed an order for the HS51 today.

The online retailer I used said that they had worked with Sony about a month ago to patch all of their existing stock. I suppose it's possible that this is utter nonsense, but I insisted on updated BIOS versions prior to shipping and they have a pretty liberal return policy in any event.

Someone please reassure me that I'll be happy with this projector! My old basement theater sported a Sanyo PLV-60HT. We were actually very happy with the Sanyo (except for the noise), but I'm hoping the Sony will be a significant improvement.

Comments?

Serenity now. . . .

VB? It was my impression that the HS51 was almost completely free of vertical banding... Is that not the case? I did searches in both this and the tweak threads on the HS51 and almost no one is talking about VB... What's the real deal?

Don't get too excited, it's very lightly which hardly noticible for person never seen VB or FPN before. They AREN"T completed FREE from these issues but NEGLIGIBLE compare to Epson D4. If you ask, it's a night and day different compare to my L500U. L500U was like cholate milk (exaggerate) on FPN's friendly backgroud but not the case on Hs51.

"CONSTANT DISTORTED PICTURE ELECTRICAL ADJUSTMENT" remind me of voltage adjustments on the panel which we all quite familiar with,but hey, just a wild guess. who knows what technical term they used in Sony. When i first got my unit, i was searching for hs20 flickering tweak and such but have no luck finding one. Sony leaks out good amount of factorys settings to play with and i have no starting points where the flickering tweaks might be.
As the time goes by, i have completely forgotten about it.. Like i have , it's NEGLIGIBLE.

FYI, You must have missed a post or two on the search, earlier demo from swedish did mention that so does few others but it's not as much heat compare to AE700.

I have the address and the phone numbers for Sony Laredo and I am considering sending it in for the fix. Question: Do you need a return authorization or service authorization prior to sending them the projector? If I send in the projector do I just ask for the 720p blanking fix and check the panel alignment while you are at it? Is there any special paperwork that needs to be sent in?

And for the record, to my HS51, I run component from my Comcast 62xx series cable box and HDMI from my Denon 2910 DVD player. Both boxes are set to output a 720p signal. To my eye, the image from the HS51 looks better to me when fed a 720P signal from the source, than when given a 1080i signal. I have not tried the VGA input nor any of the conversion cable things that have been mentioned here.

I been trying 720p/1080i from moto 6208 and 6412 to panny 500u for year and now the hs51 with both component and DVI, i find the moto does a rather disappointed job deinterlace 1080i material tp 720p. I am not into sport, no espn 720p for me, thus my viewing material is roughly 80% 1080i channels except "24" and ABC. I can live with the overscan on 1080i, just for moto 6xxx.

Many people seem to get too easily "offended" on this board. SOWK may have been brash but he is correct on several technical points. One issue with 720p VGA vs HDMI is an obvious change in black level. I have a real hard time calibrating for black level via HDMI. There is a definite alteration of the grascale ramps and crushing of the lower IRE that is hard to get past. It was my hope that the blanking fix would result in a true 1:1 map and no internal processing. It is the processing that is causing the crush. Anyone with a HTPC can easily switch back and forth and see the difference. It is not subtle with a desktop background and/or text. You see the difference in movies only when you try to calibrate for black level. Pictures cannot show you this difference.

Brian

Hi,
I went to the sony website mentioned a page or two ago to electronically sign up to get my HS51 fixed.

I don't have the URL handy, but it asks for your HS51 serial # to confirm if you need the fix or not. The fix is for the HDMI blanking.

If you need it, you enter your info and after about two days I got an email from "vplup@info.sel.sony.com" today asking me to send my HS51 to SAN DIEGO. Specifically:

Sony Service Center
16795 Via Del Campo
Bldg 3 Dock 30A
San Diego, CA 92127

Has anyone else sent it there? I'd prefer to send it to Juan @ Laredo (esp. since I'm in Texas and UPS Ground will get it there in 1 day).

The email they sent me has both an "EVENT ID" and a "WORK ORDER" listed on it.

Thanks.

UPDATE:
I called Laredo, and they told me Sony will just send the HS51 from San Diego to Laredo, so I should just send it directly to Laredo. Was told to include my receipt and a description of the problem.
So the best process is to use Sony's web page to confirm your HS51 needs to be updated, then a workorder from Sony via email, BUT then send the HS51 directly to Laredo referencing the workorder Sony emailed you.
</UPDATE>

Post deleted: No pricing or "where to buy" discussion allowed.
Please read the forum posting guidelines.

Kyser

Brian, let's keep this thread on topic. (SOWK) Insulting forum members is not accepted on this forum.
End of discussion.

If anyone wants to continue this discussion they can do so through PM's. All other comments relating to SOWK will be deleted from here on in.

Kyser

Post deleted.
I was talking about SOWK's personal attacks.
Kyser

MoG,

i received the same email. They want me to send the projector to San Diego.

I dont care where I send it as long as it gets fixed. Anyone have the Texas address to send to?

Originally posted by usabrian
Many people seem to get too easily "offended" on this board. SOWK may have been brash but he is correct on several technical points. One issue with 720p VGA vs HDMI is an obvious change in black level. I have a real hard time calibrating for black level via HDMI. There is a definite alteration of the grascale ramps and crushing of the lower IRE that is hard to get past. It was my hope that the blanking fix would result in a true 1:1 map and no internal processing. It is the processing that is causing the crush. Anyone with a HTPC can easily switch back and forth and see the difference. It is not subtle with a desktop background and/or text. You see the difference in movies only when you try to calibrate for black level. Pictures cannot show you this difference.

Brian

Home Theater Mag (March 2005) review of the HS51 found this:
http://img113.exs.cx/img113/8940/greyscalelarge6mn.th.jpg (http://img113.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img113&image=greyscalelarge6mn.jpg)

Notice, even after their "calibration", darker images still show warmer-than-expected colors.

Someone also mentioned earlier in this thread that most calibrations should have contrast down to 40 BEFORE any adjustments are made. Don't remember exactly why that is though...

Update from Juan:

They don't have any update on what they can do with 720p/hdmi pass tho mode. They don't have dvi>hdmi adapter on the lab to test it from pc...well.
i did explain how it will look on hdmi via pc, imagine video mode with vga instead of computer mode. I doubt we are gonna get the pass tho mode any sooner but don't give up....

Ps, Juan is a good man. He has to run to lab and personally take a look into my unit and ask what i want to do to make it better! He did call me back exactly 20 minutes like he said. wow. what a great services from SONY. KUDO to gang of el-laredo. Of course, i asked for everything and take as much as time as he like, tweak my unit to best of his knowledge :D

For $20 s&h, I'll be sending it from time to time for services should the alignment misbehaved again.

I just wanted to post the info I pulled together from a number of sources. Can someone who has sent there projector to Laredo can confirm this is correct ?

Sony Laredo Info:

The number to Sony Laredo site is (956) 728-2160. Ask for Juan; he's the projector guru and should be able to schedule your projector for service.

956 725 2893 (956) 728-2130 and (956) 728-2133 are also good numbers.

Sony Service Center
Sony Electronics
10227 Crossroads Loop
Laredo, Texas 78045
Voice: 866-766-9272
FAX: 956-795-4675


I posted this so hopefully it will help antone interested in sending in there projector.

Originally posted by Rieper
Home Theater Mag (March 2005) review of the HS51 found this:
http://img113.exs.cx/img113/8940/greyscalelarge6mn.th.jpg (http://img113.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img113&image=greyscalelarge6mn.jpg)

Notice, even after their "calibration", darker images still show warmer-than-expected colors.

Someone also mentioned earlier in this thread that most calibrations should have contrast down to 40 BEFORE any adjustments are made. Don't remember exactly why that is though...

I think it was Brian who already pointed out the probable flaw in their calibration--they calibrated it with the iris off and then measured with iris on auto. Many others have calibrated their hs51s and gotten much better results.

I think their graph does show how the hs51 compensates for the dynamic iris...

For HTPC, i use ffdhow post processing to output 16-235 from 0-255 in. With 0-255, it kinda of freaked me out as i couldn't see the "THX" shadow using THX test pattern. That apply on both VGA and HDMI.

I just wanted to post the info I pulled together from a number of sources. Can someone who has sent there projector to Laredo can confirm this is correct ?

Sony Laredo Info:

The number to Sony Laredo site is (956) 728-2160. Ask for Juan; he's the projector guru and should be able to schedule your projector for service.

956 725 2893 (956) 728-2130 and (956) 728-2133 are also good numbers.

Sony Service Center
Sony Electronics
10227 Crossroads Loop
Laredo, Texas 78045
Voice: 866-766-9272
FAX: 956-795-4675


I posted this so hopefully it will help antone interested in sending in there projector.


S&H is
Sony Service Center
10227 Crossroads Loop
Suite C
Laredo, Texas 78045

(956) 728-2160 is the number i been calling, perhaps belong to juan's desk?? he's always the person picks up the phone.

The problem with sending PC RGB levels (0-255) is below black and above white levels are clipped off the signal, so you are not retaining the full dynamic range of the video. Make sure you send Studio RGB (16-235) to the PJ. This will allow for the full dynamic range of the video.

For those wondering about fixing their panel alignment, read this informative post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5233966#post5233966

If you have panel alignment issues smaller than 2 pixels off, Juan (Laredo, TX) can fix/tweak it for you.

However, if your misalignment is larger than 2 pixels, you will likely need a prism block assembly replacement. Which is what happened in my case. My pixel alignment is now perfect after having my prism assembly block replaced.

I hope this answers some questions which seem to keep popping up regarding prism assembly block replacement. Seems most will not need this replacement.

That was my post but I beleive now that juan was probably only talking about replacing the prism block, he never really got into what they were doing to correct the alignment issue. He just said if it was only of by a little around 2-3 pixels or less??? he could fix it? What ever that means. Maybe the prism block is the only thing that needs to be replace to get the alignment fixed? jeff

p.s. your best bet is to just get a dealer with a "nice" return policy. If you have a prob, send it to juan, if it comes back and is still not "acceptable" to you, return it for a refund. (I doubt anyone who sends his hs51 to juan with an issue of any sort will be disappointed with his fixes to the unit. Seems he knows his stuff pretty well)

Originally posted by Nasmo_Q
I don't know if it's fair to assume that just because a display device with a native resolution of x * y is passed an input with that same x * y resolution, that the display does indeed do a 1:1 mapping. It might, but it's not necessarily guaranteed.


Nas, this wasn't quite the point of my post; I was questioning a statement made earlier that 1:1 mapping had nothing to do with image sharpness. If I rephrase my question it would be: is it fair to assume that if a display does indeed do a 1:1 mapping, the resulting image will be "sharper" than a non-1:1-mapped picture? I would expect the answer to be yes (and that 1:1 does have something to do with (a particular form of) sharpness).

This is of interest to me only because I am assuming that a 1:1 mapped image will be more pleasing to watch; it would be more true to the original. Therefore, theoretically speaking I would hope that the HS51 has this type of processing in the case of a 720p signal. Of course, this is assuming no other form of processing causes degradation of the image.

As for the points you make, I agree with all of them :) and agree that this discussion is quite academic in the case of the HS51 as we don't know what's happening inside; each person's preference should be based on the final picture. In any case, it's good to note that you have a preference for 720p while others would rather view 1080i, implying that the Sony actually provides (at least) two types of images for the price of one :D

- CoreSmack

Well, I just spoke with Juan. He looked up my Work Order Number from my Final Invoice Warranty Receipt. He indicated that "CONSTANT DISTORTED PICTURE ELECTICAL ADJUSTMENT" did mean the 720P fix and, if necessary, pixel/panel alignment. He did not indicate, one way or the other, whether realignment was in fact performed on my unit. He gave me the impression they do not have any other way to describe the repairs performed.

Of course, I will check for the 1.02 firmware when I do the install.

----------------------------------
Ron Party

Does anyone have a phone number for the San Diego repair facility?

I have been speaking with a vendor who told me they had several HS51s that have already been updated by Sony. I got them to give me the serial numbers so that I could verify with Juan. When I spoke with Juan, he had no record of the numbers or any contact with the vendor. He suggested I try the San Diego facility, but did not have their contact info.

Thanks!

"CONSTANT DISTORTED PICTURE ELECTICAL ADJUSTMENT" did mean the 720P fix "CONSTANT DISTORTED PICTURE ELECTICAL ADJUSTMENT" did mean the 720P fix
What kind of tech talk is this?
Should I be worried?
CArl

Originally posted by harristl
Does anyone have a phone number for the San Diego repair facility?

Thanks!

Take your pick..:p My guess would be the (858) 942-2400 number..

http://www.smartpages.com/directory/search.jhtml?QueryType=2&QueryString=sony++&CityZipAC=san+diego&State=CA&_D%3AState=+&ClearLevel=Cloud9&_DARGS=%2Ffragments%2Fnavlines%2Ffrag_NavlineSearchForm.jhtm l&Go%21.x=10&Go%21.y=5&Go%21=Go%21
Yellow Pages search - Searched for "sony" in the "San Diego" Yellow Pages directory on SMARTpages.com

Kyser:

It kinda' feels like communism... can't talk about this, that...can't say this, that... so much for the freedom of speech.....

Just wonder why... aren't these forums intended for the consumers?
What's the big deal if I help some people in Toronto save $750??
Or what would be the problem if someone helps me save $$$ by going to Buffalo???

And what's the problem asking a question regarding where to buy in Buffalo? I actually tried finding a place that sells these projectors in Buffalo but I couldn't...

A question for anyone with the 720P fix. As best I can tell, people who have recieved the fix do not think 720P input to HDMI is being rescaled, so is probably 1:1 pixel mapping in that sense. But there does seem to be some kind of processing of the pixels that makes text look thicker than VGA from a HTPC, just like it did before the fix. So it seems that although it is not being scaled, it is not a pass thru either. Is this correct?

What I'm wondering. Since 720P input to HDMI still has a sharpness control, has anyone checked to see if adjusting it has any effect? I'm wondering if it might be possible to get something that looks more like VGA input by changing the sharpness setting.

Going thru the web page originally posted by Bytehoven (thanks), I also received an Email directing me to send my HS-51 to San Diego for the 720P fix. Maybe they are collecting them there for mass shipment to Loredo.

Originally posted by usabrian
Many people seem to get too easily "offended" on this board. SOWK may have been brash but he is correct on several technical points. One issue with 720p VGA vs HDMI is an obvious change in black level. I have a real hard time calibrating for black level via HDMI. There is a definite alteration of the grascale ramps and crushing of the lower IRE that is hard to get past. It was my hope that the blanking fix would result in a true 1:1 map and no internal processing. It is the processing that is causing the crush. Anyone with a HTPC can easily switch back and forth and see the difference. It is not subtle with a desktop background and/or text. You see the difference in movies only when you try to calibrate for black level. Pictures cannot show you this difference.

Brian


I just wanted to inform everyone that this will be my new screen name.

This is SOWK

I wont be able to post any more till tommarrow. But try not to get into any fights with out me. J/k :)

I will be kinder in my posts from this point on.

Thank you for the Kind comments though Brian.

Originally posted by CORRY
Kyser:

It kinda' feels like communism... can't talk about this, that...can't say this, that... so much for the freedom of speech.....

Just wonder why... aren't these forums intended for the consumers?
What's the big deal if I help some people in Toronto save $750??
Or what would be the problem if someone helps me save $$$ by going to Buffalo???

And what's the problem asking a question regarding where to buy in Buffalo? I actually tried finding a place that sells these projectors in Buffalo but I couldn't...

Corry, the owner's of the board sell projectors, get it? Would you want people offering cut rate prices that compete directly against you on a board you offer to people?

Brian

Quote..."The problem with sending PC RGB levels (0-255) is below black and above white levels are clipped off the signal, so you are not retaining the full dynamic range of the video. Make sure you send Studio RGB (16-235) to the PJ. This will allow for the full dynamic range of the video."

Ok , I'm lost again ! I thought if you sent "full scale" 0-255 info you WOULDN'T clip whites or crush blacks and if the the signal was LESS (16-235) then you were limiting the signal and hence clipping whites and crushing blacks :confused:

How far into left field am I ?

Scott.........................
:(

Originally posted by Scott_R_K

How far into left field am I ?

Scott.........................
:(

There is a thread here that goes into this in depth, the first post explains it,

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=494606
Go-to Guide for Source Options - AVS Forum

0-255 remaps where black is so that 16 is 0 and 235 is 255. With Studio RGB 16 is black, but you still have levels below that to 0. 235 is white but there is head room all the way to 255. Hope this helps.

Originally posted by jschefdog
What I'm wondering. Since 720P input to HDMI still has a sharpness control, has anyone checked to see if adjusting it has any effect? I'm wondering if it might be possible to get something that looks more like VGA input by changing the sharpness setting.
Well, to answer my own question, I hooked my HTPC up via HDMI and the sharpness control didn't have much effect. I don't have the 720P fix yet, but it sounds like it doesn't just eliminates the borders and doesn't change whatever processing is done.

Sorry if this is a basic question, but why are people wanting to connect their HTPC to the HDMI (via a DVI-HDMI convertor)?

Why not just plug into the DB15 port? Either from a DB15 source or from DVI with an adapter?

I ask because I am planning on connecting my HD DVR STB to my HS51 via HDMI, but was thinking about connecting my HTPC to the DB15 VGA port.

Thx.

hello

Yesterday I noticed(with the D.V.E/AVIA) that my hs50 geometric has to be fixed.
I could not find, in the menus ,any way to fixed it.

Did any one know how it can be done?
Do I need a technician code for it?

Thank you very much for your help

Yoav

Corry, I'm sorry but if you don't like it, don't post here.
The owners back us up on the "pricing/where to buy rules" 110%

PM me if you have an issue with this.

Sorry if this is a basic question, but why are people wanting to connect their HTPC to the HDMI (via a DVI-HDMI convertor)?

Why not just plug into the DB15 port? Either from a DB15 source or from DVI with an adapter?

I ask because I am planning on connecting my HD DVR STB to my HS51 via HDMI, but was thinking about connecting my HTPC to the DB15 VGA port.

Thx.

VGA does pass tho so u are fine, but remember to select computer mode. it's well mentioned in the past and I don't think anyone is using dvi>hdmi for htpc, perhaps for testing purposes only

Hey guys, good news for those with HS50's in the UK. I've just been told (By the shop I bought my projector from) that Sony are setting up a `unit` to fix the 720p problem and will be ready to start fixing in three weeks time. Fingers crossed!

Hi,

Would the same apply for watching DVD's via HTPC? I guess the source of my confusion is the discussion regarding 0-255 PC RGB vs. 16-235 Video RGB.

I'm waiting for my HS51 to get back from Laredo, so I can't test this...
but it sounds like to get best (crisp) HTPC desktop image, one should use 0-255 PC RGB to VGA port
but to get best HTPC video image for watching DVDs, etc, one should use 16-235 Video RGB to VGA port.

my apologies if I'm totally turned around...

Originally posted by zeroendless
VGA does pass tho so u are fine, but remember to select computer mode. it's well mentioned in the past and I don't think anyone is using dvi>hdmi for htpc, perhaps for testing purposes only

Would the same apply for watching DVD's via HTPC? I guess the source of my confusion is the discussion regarding 0-255 PC RGB vs. 16-235 Video RGB.

I'm waiting for my HS51 to get back from Laredo, so I can't test this...
but it sounds like to get best (crisp) HTPC desktop image, one should use 0-255 PC RGB to VGA port
but to get best HTPC video image for watching DVDs, etc, one should use 16-235 Video RGB to VGA port.



when you pc>vga>display, you are sending default 0-255 RGB(no changes need). You only change 16-235 video RGB (if you wish) on the video playback pre/post processing Software/Hardware, it doesn't reflect setting on desktop or any others.

Say you are using ffdshow to convert 0-255>16-235 on video playback. That only changes the RGB out to projector when you use ffdshow, any other program or desktop is still sending 0-255. That would be the right thing to do.

If anyone receives a newly shipped HS51 during the next few days, I'd be curious to know the serial number. My dealer first assumed a Mar. 11th delivery at his site. I knew this would be very iffy for containing the fix. I didn't care . My theater is dark and I'm anxious. It now seems the delivery could slip to Mar. 27th. Of course this would improve the probability of the fix( to an unknown degree, of course).
Please post this info!

32841 and up are the new updated hs51 serial numbers w/fixes

As I mentioned yesterday, I have been working with an online vendor who claimed to have 16 units that had already been upgraded in Laredo. They even mentioned the Laredo facility by name, but I did some checking and it does NOT appear that any of their units have been fixed. I spoke with both Laredo and San Diego and checked the vendor's serial numbers against Sony's repair records. . .no matches.

Let the buyer beware, I suppose.

Also, I spoke with a gentleman named John at the San Diego facility who said that they do not plan to continue doing HS-51 fixes in Laredo. That may be why some of you have been told to ship your units to San Diego. I included the clip from his e-mail message below.


> TIP: These upgrades are not being performed at our
> Laredo
> facility, only exchanges to units that have
> already been
> upgraded. As such they would have no record
> of the serial
> numbers for the completed units.
>
> Thank you for allowing us the opportunity to be of
> assistance.
>
> The Sony Internet Support Team
> Online Support and Services Center
> CRJH
> John

Also, I spoke with a gentleman named John at the San Diego facility who said that they do not plan to continue doing HS-51 fixes in Laredo. That may be why some of you have been told to ship your units to San Diego. I included the clip from his e-mail message below.

Laredo is listed as the service facility for Sony projector and projector ONLY. That explain why it's better place for upgrade, fixed geometry, issue..etc. It'll be SUCK big time if you have to send it to SD for upgrade then they ship it again to Laredo for others service. Unless they planning to move the whole gangs to SD.

Thats weird. I was planning on getting an "non" updated hs51 this weekend and sending to juan for the fixes, I just talked to him yesterday and he said send it to him and he'll take care of it. Oh well maybe I'll call him tommorrow or monday and see whats up. If its going to get shuffled between caly and tex for weeks maybe Ill postpone the purchase. Man what a Pain in the buttox. I wish they would figure things out with this pj so I could make up my mind. jeff:confused:

jeffropaige,
you may have misunderstood my request. I was fully aware of the "magic number...32840". Understanding the serial numbers being delivered NOW would give me a clue as to the length of the pipe...inventory wise.

Originally posted by Joelc
For those still interested in my saga Sony Canada is prooving difficult to deal with. Current status is that they are claiming that there is nothing wrong with the projector and that they are not aware of any issues -- this even after the fact of pointing them towards the Sony US websit and this forum.

There latest offer was for me to retun the projector to my dealer for a full refund. Does not sound to me that they are too concerned with customer service. Problem is.... the SOny looks best to my eyes and I want one that is properly fixed. Any suggestions, noting that I am thinking of driving down to Buffalo to pick one up...anyone know of a resonably price place to pick one up?

Joelc,

That's just a brutal attitude from Sony Canada. I'm extremely happy with my HS50, using the VGA port. However, I'm dissappointed that I can't use the digital connection. Even with an HS51 from somewhere like Buffalo, there is still no pass through fix and the processed HDMI will still look inferior to the VGA. Now if a pass through HDMI fix comes out that allows 1:1 non-processed over HDMI I'll be all over Sony Canada to provide it to us.

Did they mention anything about alignment? Also out of curiosity, what method are you using to communicate with them?

Originally posted by RoninTech
Joelc,

That's just a brutal attitude from Sony Canada. I'm extremely happy with my HS50, using the VGA port. However, I'm dissappointed that I can't use the digital connection. Even with an HS51 from somewhere like Buffalo, there is still no pass through fix and the processed HDMI will still look inferior to the VGA. Now if a pass through HDMI fix comes out that allows 1:1 non-processed over HDMI I'll be all over Sony Canada to provide it to us.

Did they mention anything about alignment? Also out of curiosity, what method are you using to communicate with them?

RoninTech:

A few items, including an update:

1. Sony Canada has seen the light -- or at least a portion thereof. What does this mean...it means that they now acknowledge the software issue and are prepared to repair same. What it also means is that they are still on the fence wrt the prism issue. Current status is that the dealer is going to contact them on Mondar wrt the prism issue.

2. I am well aware of the fact that the issue surrounding the prism may or may not apply to my particular projector. The point that I am making is that I do not want the projector sent for repair unless Sony is prepared to examine and fix BOTH the software and the prism issues.

3. I also now have a dilema...rather than retyping it here please click on this URL http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=519343

4. Can you please explain the following to me as I my knowledge wrt video processing is basic:

a) Why does the VGA input produce a better picture than the HDMI input?

b) Do either of the VGA or HDMI allow for 1:1 pixel mapping? I would think that they both should...if not then why not?

c) As a result of a) and b) should I therefore be using the VGA conection regardless of the fact that I will be installing a "fixed unit"?

5. And lastly...I have not spoken to Sony directly. Rather I have been letting my dealer/retailer handle all the communications. One of teh advantages of buying from a brick and mortar store.

I look forward to yours and others responses to the questions I posed in item 4.

Many thanks,

Joel

ok brian i got ya. Well we cant list distributers but a well known internet seller told me they were on serial number 3279_ so they were real close. I suspect the sellers on the net that are out of inventory and waiting will be getting the updated hs51's next shipment, so any day now really, the ball is in sony's hands as to when. jeff

jeffropaige,
That's really good news! It suggests that there is a strong likelihood that the next shipments from Sony will contain the fix. If they don't ship to me on Monday, I'll be waiting until 3/27. My theater is coming up on one month "dark"...getting anxious here!
Brian

Originally posted by Joelc
RoninTech:

A few items, including an update:

1. Sony Canada has seen the light -- or at least a portion thereof. What does this mean...it means that they now acknowledge the software issue and are prepared to repair same. What it also means is that they are still on the fence wrt the prism issue. Current status is that the dealer is going to contact them on Mondar wrt the prism issue.

2. I am well aware of the fact that the issue surrounding the prism may or may not apply to my particular projector. The point that I am making is that I do not want the projector sent for repair unless Sony is prepared to examine and fix BOTH the software and the prism issues.

3. I also now have a dilema...rather than retyping it here please click on this URL http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=519343

4. Can you please explain the following to me as I my knowledge wrt video processing is basic:

a) Why does the VGA input produce a better picture than the HDMI input?

b) Do either of the VGA or HDMI allow for 1:1 pixel mapping? I would think that they both should...if not then why not?

c) As a result of a) and b) should I therefore be using the VGA conection regardless of the fact that I will be installing a "fixed unit"?

5. And lastly...I have not spoken to Sony directly. Rather I have been letting my dealer/retailer handle all the communications. One of teh advantages of buying from a brick and mortar store.

I look forward to yours and others responses to the questions I posed in item 4.

Many thanks,

Joel

Hey Joel,

That's great news that Sony Canada has started a dialogue. Is this a Sony Store you are going through? I have the impression that the (Sony) store I bought mine from would probably make stories up regarding what Sony said if I used them as the contact.

My HTPC is connected to the ceiling mounted PJ via a VGA cable and DVI to HDMI cable. I also have a composite (unused), component (Xbox) and S-Video (unused) cable hooked up via a 4" pipe I installed in the basement ceiling. This means I can A-B between the VGA and HDMI HTPC connections. I find it to be a night and day difference whether its the PC desktop or my Zoomplayer DVD/Media player. When going through the HDMI the image is cropped and details are blurred. I really haven't spent a lot of time examining the difference as the VGA was so much better I didn't dig into it. I'm not up on the technical reasons just going by what I see on the screen.

I'm thinking that if Sony ever did provide a non-processed, non-cropped HDMI option it has the chance to surpass the VGA's performance due to fewer domain transitions (between digital and analog). As it stands I'm extremely happy with the VGA performance but am always interested in finding something better. Also, right now the HDMI input may as well not be there. It'd be nice to have another high quality input option. After all we did pay for it.

What is your panel alignment sitaution like? I don't have perfect alignment but from seating distance it doesn't seem to cause any issues. Then again, maybe if I did have perfect alignment I would have a better picture....

Originally posted by Brian227
jeffropaige,
you may have misunderstood my request. I was fully aware of the "magic number...32840". Understanding the serial numbers being delivered NOW would give me a clue as to the length of the pipe...inventory wise. I ordered an HS51 yesterday and the SN was 313xx. So, given that 328xx is the start of the new batch, I'd say the supply chain as a whole is lagging by about 1500 units, assuming all serial numbers are used.

It's fancy numbers, but I don't know how you'd turn this into a meaningful timeframe for sell-through without knowing the number of dealers, the sales rate, and a bunch of other variables.

Originally posted by RoninTech
Hey Joel,

That's great news that Sony Canada has started a dialogue. Is this a Sony Store you are going through? I have the impression that the (Sony) store I bought mine from would probably make stories up regarding what Sony said if I used them as the contact.

My HTPC is connected to the ceiling mounted PJ via a VGA cable and DVI to HDMI cable. I also have a composite (unused), component (Xbox) and S-Video (unused) cable hooked up via a 4" pipe I installed in the basement ceiling. This means I can A-B between the VGA and HDMI HTPC connections. I find it to be a night and day difference whether its the PC desktop or my Zoomplayer DVD/Media player. When going through the HDMI the image is cropped and details are blurred. I really haven't spent a lot of time examining the difference as the VGA was so much better I didn't dig into it. I'm not up on the technical reasons just going by what I see on the screen.

I'm thinking that if Sony ever did provide a non-processed, non-cropped HDMI option it has the chance to surpass the VGA's performance due to fewer domain transitions (between digital and analog). As it stands I'm extremely happy with the VGA performance but am always interested in finding something better. Also, right now the HDMI input may as well not be there. It'd be nice to have another high quality input option. After all we did pay for it.

What is your panel alignment sitaution like? I don't have perfect alignment but from seating distance it doesn't seem to cause any issues. Then again, maybe if I did have perfect alignment I would have a better picture....


Ronin:

In response to your queries:

1. No I did not buy from a Sony store (i.e. I bought from a Sony retailer).

2. I can not tell you about the alignement as I never tested it. In other words, I simply plugged in the projector, fired it against the wall, went into the factory menu, checked the software version and pulled my hair out :)

That said, I would apprecaite someone explaining how/why the VGA input is putting out a better picture that the HDMI input.

Later,


Joel

Originally posted by Bytehoven
VGA is not putting out a better picture on my HS-51.

Then again, I am not running a HTPC.

That is a very important point. From what I have seen 1080i over HDMI from a Sony 975 dvd player is slightly better than a HTPC connected via VGA. The HTPC/VGA connection is better than HTPC/DVI/DVI-HDMI/HDMI.

Of the above 3 choices, if you want the bets possible image from the non 720p fix HS51 use a dvd player outputing 1080i over HDMI.

Second best image HTPC/VGA.

third place; HTPC/DVI/DVI-HDMI/HDM.

Originally posted by Bytehoven
I am looking forward to Kris reporting on his observations, with the Iscan HD, 5910 and possibly some other sources.


Yes, so am I...

That is a very important point. From what I have seen 1080i over HDMI from a Sony 975 dvd player is slightly better than a HTPC connected via VGA. The HTPC/VGA connection is better than HTPC/DVI/DVI-HDMI/HDMI.

Of the above 3 choices, if you want the bets possible image from the non 720p fix HS51 use a dvd player outputing 1080i over HDMI.

Second best image HTPC/VGA.

third place; HTPC/DVI/DVI-HDMI/HDM.

To be more specific, what setup on the HTPC compare to sony 975 you come to a conclusion that any DVD with 1080i hdmi>HS51 is better than HTPC>VGA?