COMLOKIT! I am new to this forum, but I read your initial description of your problem and I experienced dejavou!

I also bought my projector in June and have only set it up and run it for approximately 3 months. I loved the projector until one day, the image on screen was significantly much dimmer than ever before. I started freaking out and didn't know what to do. Then I finally went into configuration and pumped up the contrast and brightness to full 100% but still was noticeably dimmer than I had always experienced before. Additionally, I checked the lamp hours and I had only watched a totaly of 357 hours!!!

Still being upset and not sure what to do, I viewed the projector another couple hours. Then next day, I turned the projector on and as it was powering up, it made a loud popping sound and it automatically shut off!

Approximately 360 hours of use and the bulb is done! I started freaking out because that is just RIDICULOUS! I didn't know if the problem was a faulty bulb or if my projector was screwed up. I called the customer service at the Sony help line, and spoke with one service rep after another. All of the service reps seemed very inexperienced and simply typed in the information that I explained to them and gave me the address for the service center (in Texas) to ship to. All of them said "it will be taken care of, just ship it to texas..."

The whole time, I was skeptical of whether I should ship it to Texas, incurring shipping cost and risk the projector being misshandled... for them to say something like "all it needed was a new bulb..." and CHARGE ME for the new bulb because the warranty says the bulb only has a 90 days warranty from the time purchased (which I have owned for 6 months now). Finally, after speaking to the 5th service rep, she said that they probably would charge me for the bulb (which I found on the Sony Accessories web site cost $350). I found a place online where it cost $250 instead.

So I ordered the bulb from CousinsVideo for $250 around Dec. 7th and am still waiting for the bulb to be shipped.

The question that still looms in my head though, is whether my projector is a lemon and cause the bulb to pop after 360 hours of use, or whether the bulb is the lemon.

I never knew about the 720p border issue because I have been using the projector with only a S-video cable. Only after the bulb popped did I receive my HDMI cable from BlueJeansCable (I took a while to order it). So, now I am concerned that when I do get my new bulb, that I will see the "720 border problem" that others have mentioned. So now I am wondering if I should have the projector sent in anyways.

Well guys... what would you do?

This is truly a riddle!!!!

There seems to be several posts talking about premature burn out of bulbs.

Those of you who have had bulb failures, are your projectors ceiling mounted or table mounted?

Is there any vibration caused by HVAC coming on and off during the time the bulb is on?

My projector was not mounted. I had it sitting on top of a tall wooden table which is positioned to the right side of my sofa. I was using major horizontal lens shifting as well as some vertical lens shifting. Additionally, I was using the full 2.0X zoom for maximum size - 147 inches of beauty. My view preference was mostly in "Dynamic" mode.

What is HVAC? The fan? If so, the fan seemed fine. I could hear it sometimes during silent parts of a movie, but it was not extremely noticeable. I never noticed any "vibrations"... the projector never moved from its original position.

I've had the exact same problem with my projector...fine up until 500 hours then switched it on one day and the picture was really dim. Next day was even worse. Took it back to Sony and they replaced the bulb under warranty. My projector is ceiling mounted upside down. Fingers crossed this isn't a recurrent problem as it could get expensive if out of warranty.

BTW - is it still the case that the HS50/51 cannot do 1:1 pixel mapping via HDMI?

BTW - is it still the case that the HS50/51 cannot do 1:1 pixel mapping via HDMI?

Yes, that is the case, no 1:1 full screen mapping. Only with VGA.
Old firmware = 1:1 mapping but cropping around the edges (images won't fill screen).
New Firmware = No 1:1 mapping (overscan) but no cropping around the edges.

The warranty for my HS51's bulb expired a few weeks ago so I bought a new one and set aside the original as a spare. After installing the new bulb and plugging the projector back in, but not turning it on, I followed the lamp reset sequence of RESET, <,>, Enter but when I checked the lamp timer under the Menu it was still showing the 585 hours. Over the weekend, prior to turning the projector on, I tried it again several times but it still didn't reset it.

I leave my projector plugged in at all times, so I was under the assumption that it is in Standby mode when the ON/Standway LED is a seady red. Am I missing something?

BTW - is it still the case that the HS50/51 cannot do 1:1 pixel mapping via HDMI?

IMHO, it does not matter.

Maybe it's the Iscan HD. Maybe it's the HS-51. The pixel mapping test pattern in the Iscan HD looked just as good, after horz/vert sync tweaks, on the pre & post updated projector.

The post updated projector may not present true 1:1 pixel mapping, but my observations on the Iscan HD suggest it does not matter.

Of course, some folks will not be able to get past the contradiction, and will throw the baby out with the bath water.

IMHO, it does not matter.

Maybe it's the Iscan HD. Maybe it's the HS-51. The pixel mapping test pattern in the Iscan HD looked just as good, after horz/vert sync tweaks, on the pre & post updated projector.

The post updated projector may not present true 1:1 pixel mapping, but my observations on the Iscan HD suggest it does not matter.

Of course, some folks will not be able to get past the contradiction, and will throw the baby out with the bath water.



No comment... ;)

-SOWK

The warranty for my HS51's bulb expired a few weeks ago so I bought a new one and set aside the original as a spare. After installing the new bulb and plugging the projector back in, but not turning it on, I followed the lamp reset sequence of RESET, <,>, Enter but when I checked the lamp timer under the Menu it was still showing the 585 hours. Over the weekend, prior to turning the projector on, I tried it again several times but it still didn't reset it.

I leave my projector plugged in at all times, so I was under the assumption that it is in Standby mode when the ON/Standway LED is a seady red. Am I missing something?


Greetings,

Monty, I replaced my lamp as well and had no problem resetting the lamp timer. Be sure to point the remote directly at the projector and don't hold the buttons down for more than a few seconds each. Having the unit in Standby mode and pressing RESET, LEFT, RIGHT, ENTER should get it done.

Regards,

Thanks for the response. That's what I've been doing, but just to confirm, the projector is in standby mode when the On/Standby LED indicator is a steady red, right? Basically it's in standby when it's plugged in but turned off?

I want to thank Kris for his setting... It allowed my Sony HS-51 to look even better, even through VGA. I was using the normal Color setting, I punched in his Tweak settings, and it improved my picture. (not night and day, but Enough for me to thank him in the Forum.)

It adds just a bit more dimention to the picture. Blacks seem, just a tad darker.

Thanks Kris

hey sowk can u pm me the settings or tell me where there listed id like to try them. thanks jeff

Just use the Custom Color User 1 and CHG


R +12
G 0
B -17

R -5
G 0
B 0

hey sowk can u pm me the settings or tell me where there listed id like to try them. thanks jeff

Hi Jeff...

The settings are the same if you leave the user controls in the main menu set to zero, and go into the service menu and change the W/B controls for user 1 to:

RG 140
GG 78
BG 100
RB 123
GB 128
BB 132

My latest two favorites with the High Power screen are:

RG 128
GG 65
BG 100
RB 129
GB 128
BB 125

RG 128
GG 65
BG 90
RB 129
GB 128
BB 125

thanks ill try those --- jeff

Glad to hear those settings worked out for you SOWK. Hope everyone here has a great Christmas weekend and safe holiday!!

Hi Kris,

Did you get your HS-51A or 60 yet ? Would like to hear your comment on it.

Sony is trying to arrange a 51a for me but they aren't sure if they can get me one before next week. I guess they are waiting for a unit that was supposed to be returned already but hasn't shown up yet. I have my fingers crossed. Sounds like I may get it in soon though, probably first week of January at the latest, but you never know. I tried to get a HS-60 but the retailer I had made the arrangements through gave me the complete cold shoulder after I said I would buy it. Despite repeated attempts they haven't gotten back to me at all. Oh well.

Bytehoven, your settings are great, thanks!

does anyone have any settings for playing flight simulator on the projector via the computer(vga) - surfing and gaming seems a little "unisnspired". Can anyone help?

Thanks for the response. That's what I've been doing, but just to confirm, the projector is in standby mode when the On/Standby LED indicator is a steady red, right? Basically it's in standby when it's plugged in but turned off?


Greetings,

Monty, that is correct.


Regards,

Glad to hear those settings worked out for you SOWK. Hope everyone here has a great Christmas weekend and safe holiday!!


Greetings,

FYI those settings worked perfectly for my HS51 as well. Thanks again Kris. Have a safe and happy hoilday as well.

Regards,

Anyone using the Xbox 360 as a DVD player? Have you calibrated the HS-51 for the Xbox 360? If so, I'd love to see your settings.

So, Santa is not delivering your gift on time.

Anyway, wishing you a merry X'mas n a happy new year !!!



Sony is trying to arrange a 51a for me but they aren't sure if they can get me one before next week. I guess they are waiting for a unit that was supposed to be returned already but hasn't shown up yet. I have my fingers crossed. Sounds like I may get it in soon though, probably first week of January at the latest, but you never know. I tried to get a HS-60 but the retailer I had made the arrangements through gave me the complete cold shoulder after I said I would buy it. Despite repeated attempts they haven't gotten back to me at all. Oh well.

Sony is trying to arrange a 51a for me but they aren't sure if they can get me one before next week. I guess they are waiting for a unit that was supposed to be returned already but hasn't shown up yet. I have my fingers crossed. Sounds like I may get it in soon though, probably first week of January at the latest, but you never know. I tried to get a HS-60 but the retailer I had made the arrangements through gave me the complete cold shoulder after I said I would buy it. Despite repeated attempts they haven't gotten back to me at all. Oh well.


Any other tweaks Kris? Other then the color settings! :D

-SOW(want to)K(more)

Any other tweaks Kris? Other then the color settings! :D

-SOW(want to)K(more)

The only other settings I will echo:

Contrast = 75-80 - depending on hi luminance content. I feel I see a little better hi luminance detail on bright clouds if I lower contrast to 75.

Brightness = 40-50 - depending on the source. The OPPO likes 50 for perfect black levels, while my Moto HD box likes 40.

Color = 45 - anything to dial back the chance for red over saturation is a good thing.

Sharpness = OFF - when looking at test patterns, anything above OFF starts to add a little more ringing as you increase the setting. Ringing is a bad thing. OPPO sharpness = OFF and HS-51 sharpness = OFF is about the best reproduction of sharpness I have seen on a digital setup. Of course, the withdraw of reducing sharpness to FLAT reproduction can be like kicking an opium habit. ;-)

Gamma = 0 - adjust to tase. I find I like to set gamma at (1) or (2) for many films, as I like what it does for shadow detail.

The only other thing I can really recommend is making it a point to use proper test patterns for setting up your levels. It is the only way you can really be sure you are showing an accurate image.

Sharpness should definately be 0. Set color, tint, and brightness with a standard SMPTE color bar pattern. For contrast I highly recommend the deep XXX ramp on AVIA Pro, but the normal AVIA has some good ones with the moving white bars that work.

Just use the Custom Color User 1 and CHG


R +12
G 0
B -17

R -5
G 0
B 0

So this setting can be done without having to go into the service menu?

So this setting can be done without having to go into the service menu?


Yuppers!

The only other thing I can really recommend is making it a point to use proper test patterns for setting up your levels. It is the only way you can really be sure you are showing an accurate image.

Sharpness should definately be 0. Set color, tint, and brightness with a standard SMPTE color bar pattern. For contrast I highly recommend the deep XXX ramp on AVIA Pro, but the normal AVIA has some good ones with the moving white bars that work.


Already done that. But thanks Kris!

I have had AVIA for a while. Everyone should use it for DVD setup.

I wish companies would put image tests right on the firmwire at native resolutions, and allow you to correct for every input. And then as you add equipment, chg setting if need be. Once HD-DVD and Blueray come out, we will need to buy AVIA HD Edition. lol

COMLOKIT! I am new to this forum, but I read your initial description of your problem and I experienced dejavou!

I know exactly what your thinking. I was thinking the same thing too. I was for sure thinking the projector caused the bulb to burn out so fast and thats the main reason I sent mine in. I'll really never know for sure since I ended up getting a new projector after they trashed my original one. But I would tend to lean towards a bad bulb after what I've been reading here on the forum.

Mine is installed on the ceiling upside down with no ventalation restrictions. Nothing to cause it to get too hot and blow out prematurely. Mine did last just under 1000 hours though. I hope I get 2000 hours out of the new one.

Let me know if you send yours in and how they return it to you. The days of them using plastic wrap only should be gone I hope.

On a side note the Sony Service Center Manager Adriana has called me twice to followup after I received my new unit. I was suprised that she called a second time. I sure hope they take good care of everyone from now on.

If they don't please let me know and I'll start mailing my complaint letters.

Good Luck.

It seems that I have the same problem as several of the other guys here - one day, I turn the projector on, and it is dim to the point it is not viewable at all. Also, the picture visibly dimmed for the next 5-7 minutes while I tried to “fix” it using the brightness and other settings… I turned it off to prevent any internal damage, but it its last few seconds its light was barely visible.

The strangest part is that the lamp (and projector) only has 440 hours with 95% on the low setting. Also, the last time the projector was working correctly, it was very bright, so it was like this – its works and it’s as bright as new, then I turn it off and turn it on the next day, and its less than 10% of the brightness it used to produce and it went down to zero in less than 10 minutes. No “replace bulb” message was displayed, and it cannot be displayed as the projector is too dim to show anything now. I am really upset about it, since I expected 2000 – 3000 hours out of the lamp. The projector was set on a tall but firm table with DVD player and amp in the same table but far below the projector. There was free air flow all around the projector. So, I do not see any reasons for the bulb failure besides SONY’s incompetence.

What would you advise me to do? Should I just suck it up and buy a new bulb, hoping that it will last longer and that the projector is not a lemon? Or should I send the projector in and demand replacement of the bulb and/or projector at SONY’s expense? I am 100% confident that it is SONY’s fault and I would expect them fixing/replacing the unit and making sure that it would not happen again. I had a similar situation with a Lexmark printer (a photodeveloper cartridge died only with 35% of its capacity used), and they first shipped in a new cartridge, and then sent a tech in to fix the printer after it screwed the new cartridge as well. So I believe it would be reasonable to expect the same from SONY, but the posts in this forum seem to say otherwise… I can suck up the cost of the bulb, as my time is worth more, but if the problem is with the projector, then I really want it fixed, and I am ready to go as far as it takes. Also, shipping could be a major cost for me, as I bought the projector in the USA but now I live in Canada, and I assume that it will have to be sent it to the US service center (is that so?).

Thanks!

For contrast I highly recommend the deep XXX ramp on AVIA Pro

Yes. XXX patterns are always eye-poppers! :D ;)

Aren't they though!

It seems that I have the same problem as several of the other guys here - one day, I turn the projector on, and it is dim to the point it is not viewable at all. Also, the picture visibly dimmed for the next 5-7 minutes while I tried to “fix” it using the brightness and other settings… I turned it off to prevent any internal damage, but it its last few seconds its light was barely visible.

The strangest part is that the lamp (and projector) only has 440 hours with 95% on the low setting. Also, the last time the projector was working correctly, it was very bright, so it was like this – its works and it’s as bright as new, then I turn it off and turn it on the next day, and its less than 10% of the brightness it used to produce and it went down to zero in less than 10 minutes. No “replace bulb” message was displayed, and it cannot be displayed as the projector is too dim to show anything now. I am really upset about it, since I expected 2000 – 3000 hours out of the lamp. The projector was set on a tall but firm table with DVD player and amp in the same table but far below the projector. There was free air flow all around the projector. So, I do not see any reasons for the bulb failure besides SONY’s incompetence.


Thanks!

Have you been turning the PJ off at the powerpoint instead of letting the unit shut down into standby mode-if you have, that will kill the lamp.

Also there are a few other reasons the lamp could die prematurely.

The first is if you have turned the unit on for say about 15 or less minutes and then turned it off again,and then on again within an hour-the heating up then down then up again in a short space of time can do it.

Not using a surge supressor-if it running on the same ring as say a fridge or washer/dryer and they kick in while the pj is starting up can do it-especially as the sony always starts up in high lamp mode regardless,and then switches to your preset-low lamp mode.

And lastly-you might have a clogged air filter causing the unit to overheat.
[tip] make a pre dust filter-filter using pantyhose material.

To blackwiggle:

The projector was on 100% of the time, hardwired, and we have a house-wide surge protection, so powering it off and not letting the fan to cool it is not the cause. We also never had a blackout with projector in use. The dust filter is new as well - we have three HEPA air filters in the house working 24/7 (it's a pretty high-tech house), so there is not much dust in the air. Also turning on-off scenario is not likely, as we use it for movies exclusively, which are usually longer than one hour... That's what disturbs me - what if it just has a defective fan or something like that. I will call SONY and see what they say.

Best regards

I've just vaguely heard about the 720p border issue but have never experienced it for myself as my original bulb went bad before I purchased an HDMI cable and I am awaiting the bulb replacement in the mail. Now that I have the HDMI cable, I am wondering what this talk is of the 720p issue.

Is it recommended that everyone send their HS51 in for repair? Isn't there some way to upgrade firmware or something? I have never used this option, but I remember reading the user manual about internet connection etc for upgrades.

Can someone clarify this 720p issue and if it is necessary?

I bought my HS51 in June refurbished.

Your unit may not need the update.

What to look for:

When switching between 720p and any other DVI/HDMI resolution, the 720p will be displayed with a black boarder all the way around, with the inset image smaller than the other resolutions.

If you do not see this artifact, then your HS-51 is already updated, which is what I would expect from a 6/05 projector.

PS. I recommend the update because Sony will eventually discountinue the update offer, and you would have a projector which does not properly format a 720p signal.

Hi. I don't know if this should be in the "tweak thread" instead, but I'm posting this here as the old thread hasn't been updated in a long time.

Just an update on my previous post - I posted a while ago about some problems with my new HS50. I’m actually going to have a replacement unit, not because the problems were severe - the main issue is a 1-pixel misalignment of the green panel, and although it bothers me a bit (because I can see it on subtitles from my seating position), I could live with it -, but because Sony’s service center messed up.

To sum it all up, the guy that sold me the HS50 told me that he spoke with a Sony tech guy and that he told him that the 1-pixel misalignment on my unit was very easy to correct with software. So, the sales guy advised me to take my unit to Sony’s service center. I was afraid of this, because I know that these guys usually only repair “really broken” units (severe problems; they usually don’t have time for “minor adjustments”), but the guy from the store told me to go ahead anyway, so I did. The unit returned unchanged (like I predicted), but what’s worse is that they scratched it. Unbelievable. Of course, this isn’t acceptable for me, as I may want to sell the unit in the future and this would lower its value. The sales guy was very understanding of the situation. He said he will deal that problem with Sony, and ordered a new unit for me right away. In the mean time, until the new unit arrives, I’m using my (now scratched) unit.

Anyway, yesterday I found out something that may be of interest to some HS50/51 users, so I’m sharing this in case you find it useful.

I like the big screen experience, so I sit at about 1.5x-1.6x (don’t know exactly) the screen width. I usually don’t see SDE on the HS50 (I do defocus it very slightly), but there is something that I sometimes see that bothers me a little. What I sometimes see is some kind of scanline artifact, something I’ve seen in many LCD units actually, exactly like the so-called peek-a-boo scanlines that many Panasonic users talk about. Yesterday I had my unit on, and I began trying to understand what made this phenomenon happen. I found out that I could see this artifact just by moving my eyes across the screen with a still bright image (I was using my HTPC’s desktop with a Windows Explorer on screen (white)) -, but I didn’t notice it if I kept my eyes fixed (kind of like rainbows on a 1-chip DLP). Also, the artifact is more visible on movies when there is vertical motion in the picture, or I could see it easily if I dragged the explorer window up and down.

Well, anyway, I’m just describing this with as much detail as I can, so that at least some of you know what I’m talking about.

I tried defocusing a little further and it helped a little (but not much), but I didn’t like the more defocused look. I didn’t have any other solution, so I gave up, and continued to do some other things that I intended to do. One of those things was to do some experimenting with various calibration settings using the HTPC. I was using a test pattern generator software from Philips, and I saw something strange. On one of the patterns (“multi-burst”, I think), I could see some flickering – it was only visible in ONE of the patterns, which consists of single-pixel horizontal lines (color line, black line, color line, black line, and so on). I thought this could be caused by some wrong value in the VGA signal clock settings (it was set with APA), so I tried a little tweaking of those settings, but it didn’t help. Also, I saw that the flickering was only on green patterns (or white, which contains green, of course), as blue and red appeared rock-solid. I thought that maybe there was something for tuning this in the HS50’s service menu.

At this point I must do the usual disclaimer:
- Messing with the service menu can be dangerous and may damage your unit.
- You may loose your guarantee.
- There is NO WAY (I repeat: NO WAY) to reset the unit to its factory values if you screw up.
- If you’re going to change anything, WRITE DOWN all values first in case you need to go back.
- Use the following information AT YOUR OWN RISK. You have been warned.

Ok, looking at my excel sheet with all service menu values, I looked where it seemed to make more sense – Panel driver. There I saw that there are many values for R/G/B, but on my unit they are all the same, EXCEPT for “P.Drv/V Common” values, which are 92/95/91 on my unit. This probably means that these settings are tweaked in the factory. I went for the green control (“P.Drv/V Common G”) and changed it from 95 down to 92, and IT WORKED! The flickering disappeared completely. “Great”, I thought, but the best was yet to come – what I found out is that the scanline artifacts are now COMPLETELY GONE! No more peek-a-boo! What I thought was caused by SDE happened to be caused by something much different! For me, this made A LOT of difference in the viewing experience.

Lastly, I haven’t seen any unwanted effects from this small adjustment, so I believe it’s safe, but, again, use this procedure AT YOUR OWN RISK. I had seen other HS50 units in demo’s and some had this scanline artifacts, while others didn’t, so it’s possible that this can be of help to some of you, and that’s why I’m posting this info. Also I think that if you don’t save these settings to memory, they will be set back to their original value when the unit is turned back on. I didn’t save anything because I will be returning this unit, so I just set this value each time I turn it on.

Ok, that is all.

I wish you all a Happy New Year!

Dave.

Interesting.

My settings were 91/90/90

Regarding pixel alignment, there are X-Tilt and Y-Tilt parameters, which have no adjustment function. Perhaps these and other functions can only accessed thru special software.

Interesting.

My settings were 91/90/90

Regarding pixel alignment, there are X-Tilt and Y-Tilt parameters, which have no adjustment function. Perhaps these and other functions can only accessed thru special software.

Sometimes I think we are all worrying about the wrong things regarding our pixels...

Check this out.

http://news.com.com/For+a+buck+a+pixel%2C+Brit+kid+nets+nearly+1+million/2100-1024_3-6012352.html?tag=nefd.top


Amazing :D

Hi. I don't know if this should be in the "tweak thread" instead, but I'm posting this here as the old thread hasn't been updated in a long time.

Just an update on my previous post - I posted a while ago about some problems with my new HS50. I’m actually going to have a replacement unit, not because the problems were severe - the main issue is a 1-pixel misalignment of the green panel, and although it bothers me a bit (because I can see it on subtitles from my seating position), I could live with it -, but because Sony’s service center messed up.

To sum it all up, the guy that sold me the HS50 told me that he spoke with a Sony tech guy and that he told him that the 1-pixel misalignment on my unit was very easy to correct with software. So, the sales guy advised me to take my unit to Sony’s service center. I was afraid of this, because I know that these guys usually only repair “really broken” units (severe problems; they usually don’t have time for “minor adjustments”), but the guy from the store told me to go ahead anyway, so I did. The unit returned unchanged (like I predicted), but what’s worse is that they scratched it. Unbelievable. Of course, this isn’t acceptable for me, as I may want to sell the unit in the future and this would lower its value. The sales guy was very understanding of the situation. He said he will deal that problem with Sony, and ordered a new unit for me right away. In the mean time, until the new unit arrives, I’m using my (now scratched) unit.

Anyway, yesterday I found out something that may be of interest to some HS50/51 users, so I’m sharing this in case you find it useful.

I like the big screen experience, so I sit at about 1.5x-1.6x (don’t know exactly) the screen width. I usually don’t see SDE on the HS50 (I do defocus it very slightly), but there is something that I sometimes see that bothers me a little. What I sometimes see is some kind of scanline artifact, something I’ve seen in many LCD units actually, exactly like the so-called peek-a-boo scanlines that many Panasonic users talk about. Yesterday I had my unit on, and I began trying to understand what made this phenomenon happen. I found out that I could see this artifact just by moving my eyes across the screen with a still bright image (I was using my HTPC’s desktop with a Windows Explorer on screen (white)) -, but I didn’t notice it if I kept my eyes fixed (kind of like rainbows on a 1-chip DLP). Also, the artifact is more visible on movies when there is vertical motion in the picture, or I could see it easily if I dragged the explorer window up and down.

Well, anyway, I’m just describing this with as much detail as I can, so that at least some of you know what I’m talking about.

I tried defocusing a little further and it helped a little (but not much), but I didn’t like the more defocused look. I didn’t have any other solution, so I gave up, and continued to do some other things that I intended to do. One of those things was to do some experimenting with various calibration settings using the HTPC. I was using a test pattern generator software from Philips, and I saw something strange. On one of the patterns (“multi-burst”, I think), I could see some flickering – it was only visible in ONE of the patterns, which consists of single-pixel horizontal lines (color line, black line, color line, black line, and so on). I thought this could be caused by some wrong value in the VGA signal clock settings (it was set with APA), so I tried a little tweaking of those settings, but it didn’t help. Also, I saw that the flickering was only on green patterns (or white, which contains green, of course), as blue and red appeared rock-solid. I thought that maybe there was something for tuning this in the HS50’s service menu.

At this point I must do the usual disclaimer:
- Messing with the service menu can be dangerous and may damage your unit.
- You may loose your guarantee.
- There is NO WAY (I repeat: NO WAY) to reset the unit to its factory values if you screw up.
- If you’re going to change anything, WRITE DOWN all values first in case you need to go back.
- Use the following information AT YOUR OWN RISK. You have been warned.

Ok, looking at my excel sheet with all service menu values, I looked where it seemed to make more sense – Panel driver. There I saw that there are many values for R/G/B, but on my unit they are all the same, EXCEPT for “P.Drv/V Common” values, which are 92/95/91 on my unit. This probably means that these settings are tweaked in the factory. I went for the green control (“P.Drv/V Common G”) and changed it from 95 down to 92, and IT WORKED! The flickering disappeared completely. “Great”, I thought, but the best was yet to come – what I found out is that the scanline artifacts are now COMPLETELY GONE! No more peek-a-boo! What I thought was caused by SDE happened to be caused by something much different! For me, this made A LOT of difference in the viewing experience.

Lastly, I haven’t seen any unwanted effects from this small adjustment, so I believe it’s safe, but, again, use this procedure AT YOUR OWN RISK. I had seen other HS50 units in demo’s and some had this scanline artifacts, while others didn’t, so it’s possible that this can be of help to some of you, and that’s why I’m posting this info. Also I think that if you don’t save these settings to memory, they will be set back to their original value when the unit is turned back on. I didn’t save anything because I will be returning this unit, so I just set this value each time I turn it on.

Ok, that is all.

I wish you all a Happy New Year!

Dave.

I've been looking for something like this since I got the HS50, and I've tried changing these values though that was mostly to see if it reduced the FPN. Previously I had 93/93/90 (R/G/B) and changed to 90 for all three, and the scanlines disappeared :D

Now I can use 48 and 50hz (PAL) to reduce judder, for some reason the scanlines became more visible before if I lowered the refreshrate from 60hz. I've longed for that for nearly three years but something has always stood in the way in the past. Thank's a bunch for this tip, you're my hero!

I've been looking for something like this since I got the HS50, and I've tried changing these values though that was mostly to see if it reduced the FPN. Previously I had 93/93/90 (R/G/B) and changed to 90 for all three, and the scanlines disappeared :D

Now I can use 48 and 50hz (PAL) to reduce judder, for some reason the scanlines became more visible before if I lowered the refreshrate from 60hz. I've longed for that for nearly three years but something has always stood in the way in the past. Thank's a bunch for this tip, you're my hero!

Thanks! It's good to see it was useful for someone else! :)

Cheers,
Dave.

Any other tweaks Kris? Other then the color settings! :D

-SOW(want to)K(more)

Yes, I got some 1080i component settings done with the Accupel HDG-3000.

R 2
G -8
B -28

R-17
G 0
B 0

Basic's
Contrast max
Brightness 56

Others at factory
High lamp mode

Bytehoven, bet you never thought I'd buy one of these? :)

Yes, I got some 1080i component settings done with the Accupel HDG-3000.

R 2
G -8
B -28

R-17
G 0
B 0

Basic's
Contrast max
Brightness 56

Others at factory
High lamp mode

Bytehoven, bet you never thought I'd buy one of these? :)

Well, I don't know about Bytehoven, but let me say that I am surprised! :) (I'm new as an avs member, but I've been reading the forums for a long time, and have always appreciated your informative posts, mostly on Optoma/themescene stuff, and some on the HT1000.)

Regarding your settings, doesn't setting the contrast to high values (max in this case) lead to bigger color shifts due to more agressive gamma processing in auto iris mode? (which, I suppose, is what you are using?)

Dave.

Even at max the white level isn't at it's highest point. I tried a trick by first increasing all the RGB-contrast numbers till white maxed out but had poor results.

Anyway I ran a grayscale run after these numbers and RGB was pretty well flat plus gamma showed up at the 2.2 area. I figure no two pJ's are alike but they might be worth a look.

Hi Tom...

Nice move. Did you buy a new unit or pick up a super deal on a slightly used model?

I agree with DaveHT regarding contrast. Even with the iris OFF, 95 seems to be about as high as I can go or the bright white will dramatically shift color. With Auto IRIS, 80 is about the max before I begin to see some high luminance clipping when the video processing is pushing whites in dark scenes. Scenes like the the ORB & Plunger in Riddick.

However, I am always willing to try something new.

Which color temp did you use to to arrive at your offsets? I assume HIGH.

What do you think? Not a bad rig?

Happy New Year

PS: One thing maybe you could confirm... go into the service mode and check the starting values for the color temp you off set.

Here are my values, which others have also observed.

.........LOW....MID......HI....

RG.....128.....128.....128
GG......51.......61......69
BG......62.......84.....104
RB.....129.....128.....128
GB.....128.....128.....128
BB.....125.....128.....128

Two days ago a local seller $1750 w/80hrs a HS51. It is a fine projector, first thing I noticed with the Pany S97 is I had to use 480p or I would have a fill problem. But the image at 480p is crisp.

I started sliding contrast high then made the color changes. It's handy though expensive having that Accupel. It's the only way I could be sure HDTV's brightness s/b at 56. White level should be higher if we can, I think I had to push each RGB-contrast to at least 15 numbers higher for the first signs of crushing.

Tom...

Did you try calibrating to a lower contrast setting of 90 or even lower?

Just wondering how you arrived at the contrast MAX and brightness 56.

I'm gonna go give your settings a whirl. I'll let have know how they work for me on both a MATTE white and HP screen. I know the HP has a little blue push.

I used the Milori Tri-chromat facing the PJ for that tuning hooked up to the Accupel. The Accupel has reference black and ref/white patterns for each resolution and connection. 1080i over component is what I use. The Accupel has several gray steps patterns which looked gray with no bias after I finished. I would love to push the white higher till the white pattern crushes and then bring it back a couple of clicks. This would give you the brightest image. But it looks like you're seeing some shifting so more tests are needed.

One thing I did notice is I needed to re-visit the high IRE level I chose to make it settle down for adjustments (auto iris I guess). I used 80IRE and 30IRE. The low end was more stable.

Tom...

Did you try calibrating to a lower contrast setting of 90 or even lower?

Just wondering how you arrived at the contrast MAX and brightness 56.

I'm gonna go give your settings a whirl. I'll let have know how they work for me on both a MATTE white and HP screen. I know the HP has a little blue push.


Actually things were a little different for 480p over HMDI with the Accupel. I did use a lower contrast setting. Forget why exactly but do remember seeing a red tint shifting with the high IRE. Here's what I got and blue contast was at the bottom.

Contrast 90
Brightness 49
Others at stock

R -15
G -5
B- 30

R 2
G 0
B 12

High bulb mode

Hi Tom...

You might be onto something here.

Regarding contrast, it seems 93-95 might be the magic range. I could not completely preserve high luminance from clipping at higher contrast settings, regardless off how I downward adjusted the gain/bias settings, particularly green. Green has the most impact at clipping bright luminance values. I found I needed to take Green Gain down about 15 clicks to regain lost luminance at a Contrast of 93. Adjusting Green Bias is not as effective.

So with a Contrast of 95, bring down the GG -16 and then maybe proceed from there.

Is it possible to also adjust & track for 7800 and 9000 and post numbers?

I tend to like 7800 a little better than 6500, and 9000/10000 is great for sports.

There can be a big difference in performance between the component and HDMI inputs, but I always thought it was the source. The OPPO 480i component for instance, is not very good across the board.

after debating it for a few months, i finally decided to send in my pj to get the 720p issue fixed in Dec. i sent it in anyway despite of many negative experiences discussed in this forum.

so this morning, i made my daily visit to their website to check the repair status.
let me share the good news first:
"The Sony product that you have inquired about has been completed and is ready to be shipped."

and the bad one:
"The amount due for the repair is $ 185.00."

huh? why the fee? i still have 13 months left on the original warranty. besides, isn't the 720p issue a factory recall?

so i called the 800-282-2848 service center to get some explanation...
they had no idea what the charge was for. they transferred me around a few times and the last person had to open up another case just to find out what the fee is for. she promised me a call back from a manager.

did anyone have to go through something like this when you guys got your PJ upgraded from Laredo?

the worst time to be without a PJ... anyway GO PSU. Happy New Year!

No charge here. There was never a charge.

Please keep us posted regarding the explanation of the charges and if you end up having to pay.

Yes, I got some 1080i component settings done with the Accupel HDG-3000.

R 2
G -8
B -28

R-17
G 0
B 0
Thanks for posting your numbers, but there is a potential problem with posting settings made from the User menu. Way back in this thread several of us posted the numbers from the Service W/B menu and we found that there was a lot of variation in the starting point for these settings. I also found that the settings had changed quite a bit after I sent mine in for service. The difference was not subtle, the medium setting which looked pretty good before I sent it in had become very blue/green.

So it's hard to know if the relative User numbers will be good for anyone else. If you want to share with others, it's probably best to make the adjustments in the Custom sections of the service menu which are absolute numbers.

J-dog...

That's why I showed Tom what my starting numbers were as well asked if he could check his service menu to see how they compare.

I'm sure Tom will provide a more complete set of numbers in due time.

It should also be noted, his projector only has 80 hours, which could also have an inherently different color temp from our projectors with hundreds of hours.

However, I still like the direction Tom has taken.

I don't recall anyone starting out with the Contrast dialed in as high as possible, and calibtating from there. Some how, previous posters were all dialed in at Contrast of 80.

I don't recall if WSR or Kris commented on their attempts to run the Contrast near the max, except that it was a general concensus clipping started to occur above 80. Well, with the Green Gain dialed back, the Contrast can now be increased to atleast 93-95 while preserving high luminance values.

At some point maybe Kris or someone else, will be able to comment on how the HS-51 internal video processing tracks differently, depending on where the master Contrast is set. I don't want to assume adjusting the color temp RGB controls in opposite direction from the master contrast, is just moving the grayscale playing field without inherently changing the video processing. Especially when we all have seen what increasing the Contrast to max can do to the color of white.

As a rule, it's not usually a good idea to have a video control operating near the limit of it's range, so a little headroom is maintain in the circuitry.

I'm gonna have to watch a little Sin City with Tom settings, as the film's B&W treatment is a tough challange for the HS-51 grayscale reproduction.

Ok guys need a tad bit of help, this could be redundant questions so if you could answer them it would be great and or point me in the right direction.

What are some good settings for the HS51 and is there a good web site where I can find a ton of useful information on this unit. Don Munsil use to have a site just dedicated to the Sony 10HT which was very helpful.

Second: What would be a better match for my Sony, the DVDO HD+ or there new VP30.

Thanks for any help..

This thread, although quite long by now, has many calibration setting recommendations.

Some of us routinely reiterate our favorite settings, which was done in the last week or so.

I would suggest starting from about January '05 going forward, as well as going back in time from now, and you will get a handful of suggested settings.

Ideally, you will want to calibrate your projector to your screen for the best results, but you can experiment to see if any of the member recommendations will offer an improvement.

Maybe it's time to start a new HS-51 thread, designed specifically for calibration setting recommendations and nothing else, to help keep it small and more useful.

Either the HD+ of VP would be a great match. The VP30 is supposed to provide a little better image quality, although I have not observed this for myself.

I'm not aware of any HS-51 specific websites, and this thread is probably the greatest resource of information anywhere. If you find such a website, please let us know.

cheers

Bytehoven:

Thanks for the helpful info, Don M, site was very useful to me over the 3 years I had my 10HT just was wondering if there was a dedicated site like that one. Only thing I heard bad about the VP30 was the 1:1 mapping issue with Sony HS51, not sure how this would affect my viewing, when 1080p material becomes more avaliable I will make a jump to a new projector, till then this Sony does a great job in 720p and I heard it matches up well with the HD+ unit, which I am still thinking of.. Although the new VP30 HDMI switching would be good, just wondering if it does audio or not.

What are some good settings for the HS51 and is there a good web site where I can find a ton of useful information on this unit. Don Munsil use to have a site just dedicated to the Sony 10HT which was very helpful.
You might want to check out these two shorter threads which haven't had any activity for a while.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=485063

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=538257

Also, the HDMI switching on the VP30 handles audio as well.

got a good news today...

i didn't get the promised call back from sony but they had posted a ups tracking number. i should get my PJ in a few days. hopefully no issues....i'll keep you guys posted.

GO PSU!!!

Thanks for the info jschefdog!

Zno: What PJ did you order and or where they upgrading and or fixing your old Front Projector?

Big Ten Fan myself :)
Zno: Looks like Joe got another win!!(Damn long game) 3 Wins for the Big 10, I am sure you know what fan I am :)

OK...

Here is a new set of calibrations I kind of like. They're a little cooler than 6500K, but that's my preference. The thing I like, the color of gray is pretty uniform thru the luminance range, rather than drifting to red/ green or blue at various luminance values.

Contrast 95
Brightness 55
Color 45
Hue 55
Sharp OFF

RG 85
GG 35
BG 60
RB 118
GB 108
BB 118

BLACK OFF
GAMMA OFF, for some material I bump up to GAMMA 2.
IRIS AUTO

LAMP LOW, but high looks just as good.

You should be able to raise the RG/RB in about a 2/1 ratio to bring colro temp back toward 6500k, with the mid & upper mid luminance value showing it the most. It's harder to see the color shift of gray 80 & above and 40 & below.

The other thing I like about this new group of settings, which are derivative of Tom's initial post, white tracks more evenly. For instance, white type on a black BG as the type fades to black.

The settings were also done on a DaLite High Power screen which has a little bit of a blue push, especially on the low end. The settings actually look a little warmer on a MATTE screen.

Enjoy

What about the other settings.

Iris on/auto/off
lamp low/high

As I did note tom was using lamp High.

OK...

Here is a new set of calibrations I kind of like. They're a little cooler than 6500K, but that's my preference. The thing I like, the color of gray is pretty uniform thru the luminance range, rather than drifting to red/ green or blue at various luminance values.

Contrast 95
Brightness 55
Color 45
Hue 55
Sharp OFF

RG 85
GG 35
BG 60
RB 118
GB 108
BB 118

You should be able to raise the RG/RB in about a 2/1 ratio to bring colro temp back toward 6500k, with the mid & upper mid luminance value showing it the most. It's harder to see the color shift of gray 80 & above and 40 & below.

The other thing I like about this new group of settings, which are derivative of Tom's initial post, white tracks more evenly. For instance, white type on a black BG as the type fades to black.

The settings were also done on a DaLite High Power screen which has a little bit of a blue push, especially on the low end. The settings actually look a little warmer on a MATTE screen.

Enjoy

What are the values in the custom color settings? I don't really go into the service menu offen. And I prefer not to change values there.

Opps, Sorry. I added the missing settings to the original post.

In the primary user menu, start with the CUSTOM x which appears the same as LOW setting, then the offsets would be:

RG -43
GG -26
BG -2
RB -11
GB -20
BB -13

That is if the service menu starting point for the LOW and corresponding CUSTOM settings are:

128
51
62
129
128
125

That's why I like using the service mode over the CUSTOM offsets. There is the potential for your projector to have different LOW, MID, HIGH & CUSTOM x initial values.

I haven't used the service area yet, mainly because when I enter the start sequence it says up arrow for yes and I go right back to the typical user screen. What am I missing?

I do like the results I get for

1080i HDTV component
1080i DVD/Hdmi
480i SDTV component

All of these signals after using colorfacts look better than the stock Cinema setting which I thought looked very good at the start. I switched to 1080i/Hdmi for the very small near 1% overscan vs 5% overscan for 480p. 1080i looks softer than 480p so I added a little more to the sharpness control. Looks pretty good!

I haven't used the service area yet, mainly because when I enter the start sequence it says up arrow for yes and I go right back to the typical user screen. What am I missing?

ENTER ENTER (UP) (DOWN) ENTER

Do You Want To Enter Service Mode? YES

Now press the MENU button, and you should see W/B at the bottom of the menu in white letters.

ENTER ENTER < ENTER
Do You Want To Enter Factory Mode? YES

Hitting the MENU button should now reveal both the W/B extra menu and one below, where all of the other menus are located.

Under W/B menu, you will see LOW, MID, HIGH, CUSTOM 1, 2 & 3. Clicking any of these will get you to the RGB GAIN screen, and when you advance down or up past the last contol, you will get ot the RGB BAIS screen.

cheers

RJ
...

A while back I had a problem with the lamp life. It only lasted 600 hours, then pop! I'm trying out a new process, and I would like your comments.

I'm running the lamp on low, iris fully open ... but I've also set the high altitude setting to on. My theory is this: the high altitude (fast fan speed) setting should help keep things cooler. Does anyone know if there is any correlation to keeping everything cooler vs. a longer lamp life? If the correlation exists, then I'll keep listening to the quiet but noticeable fan. Otherwise, I'll reset it back to the almost silent mode.

Thanks,
Friar

Here is a new set of calibrations I kind of like...

Contrast 95
Brightness 55
Color 45
Hue 55
Sharp OFF

RG 85
GG 35
BG 60
RB 118
GB 108
BB 118
...
Interesting settings. Is the GG=35 correct? I don't have any test equipment for gray scale, but looking at the gray steps on Avia this looked very red to me. If I bumped GG up to 55 it looked more gray. I also had to take the Brightness up to 65 to see the moving black bars, but I guess everyone's setup is different for that. These settings do seem to eliminate the blue/green shift that occurs when going over 80 on the contrast, which occured with all the others I have tried. Thanks for posting them.

Are you using the HDMI input? I have never found a need to change color or hue over HDMI. With both set at 50, the Avia Blue and Red bars are always dead on and the Green bars are just slightly off.

Since there seems to be some renewed interest, here are the W/B settings I have been using for some time. They are very similar to those posted in this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=538257), but I fine tuned them a bit by eye.

RG 140
GG 78
BG 100
RB 110
GB 128
BB 132

But with these settings you can't take the contrast above about 70 or it starts to shift towards blue/green.

J-dog...

They are very close to Kris's settings, and you took RB down from 123 to 110.

Note my contrast = 95. At that high of a contrast setting, the GG has to be reduced to avoid high luminance clipping. As a result, the overall calibration is like being on a different planet when the contrast is brought back down to the 80 or below range.

I still have some movie watching to do in order to get a better handle on the overall astethic of pushing the calibration in this way suggested by Guitarman (Tom).

So far, I'm a little excited by the different approach. Watching Sin City is definitely a more comfortable experience, because the color of white is more stable at the various luminance levels of B&W reproduction in the film. On another film, Stealth, the various bright exterior shots of the aircraft carrier, also felt more more uniform and white neutral.

I wish I understood more regarding what changes in the HS-51 as the master contrast is taken from 80 into the 90+ range.

I'm sure part of the "flat" benefit I am seeing, is because I have calibrated a color temp well above 6500k, and the HS-51 is a little more forgiving. Still it seems to offer a better flat response than I could achieve at 80 contrast.

I'm looking forward to hear more from Tom as he really digs into the HS-51.

Zno: What PJ did you order and or where they upgrading and or fixing your old Front Projector?

they were fixing the 720p border issue on my pj... i waited until the last second to get this done. bad habit.

anyway, i just received my pj from laredo today.
the border issue is gone and everything appears working fine except 720p PQ is not that great.

i'm not sure if this is because of my HD receiver or PJ but 720p is noticeably worse than 1080i. i have a Dish 811 HD receiver connected to hs51 via HDMI.

720p gives me very poor PQ. it looks very fuzzy and unHD like PQ.

i have to try other sources to further validate what i'm seeing though.
too bad, my 720p sources are very limited.


Big Ten Fan myself :)
Zno: Looks like Joe got another win!!(Damn long game) 3 Wins for the Big 10, I am sure you know what fan I am :)
yeah :) congrats.

i'm not sure if this is because of my HD receiver or PJ but 720p is noticeably worse than 1080i. i have a Dish 811 HD receiver connected to hs51 via HDMI.
Don't worry, it's the Dish receiver. I have a Dish 811 and Dish 942 and I've noticed that, on both of them, the quality of the 720p picture is awful compared to the 1080i picture.

zno, did they still charge you for the 720p fix? or did they credit you your money back?

Has anyone else noticed some color shifting on their HS-51?

I recently noticed YELLOW looks different on the right -vs- left side of the screen. Yellow appears more red on the left and more green on the right.

I know the HS-51 always had a slight red/blue color shift on the left versus right, but it has become much worse.

I threw up some solid colors, and all of the solid colors looked good but yellow. Magenta might have been a little deeper purple on the right.

I then threw up some split grayscale sweeps and I can now see I have a definite red/blue grayscale & white balance shift happening on the left/right sides of the screen.

It's not something I was able to see with a grayscale pattern in only one direction. But with a split grapscale pattern with the horizontal grayscale steps moving in opposite directions, it's very obvious and most apparent in the 20-60 range.

I have been playing around with various ranges of calibrations, but the increased red/blue bias is not related to any gain/bias settings, contrast, iris ON, OFF or Auto or HIGH/LOW lamp.

I can be pretty certain about this happening in the last few weeks, maybe even less. I say that because I have been watching the various Star Wars movies with my 6 year old son during the holidays, and it was only recently I noticed the color shift of the opening yellow rolling credits. It's not a color shift I would have missed.

I recently added a High Power to my setup, but I also checked my other MATTE screen which also exhibits the same amount of red/blue bias.

I don't recall if this type of white balance problem being mentioned in the context of reported failing lamps.

It's almost as if one of my panels, maybe the blue, has changed and become weaker on the the left side.

I plan to send off an email to Sony, but I would love to hear any comments I have missed on this subject.

Has anyone else noticed some color shifting on their HS-51?

I recently noticed YELLOW looks different on the right -vs- left side of the screen. Yellow appears more red on the left and more green on the right.

I know the HS-51 always had a slight red/blue color shift on the left versus right, but it has become much worse.

I threw up some solid colors, and all of the solid colors looked good but yellow. Magenta might have been a little deeper purple on the right.

I then threw up some split grayscale sweeps and I can now see I have a definite red/blue grayscale & white balance shift happening on the left/right sides of the screen.

It's not something I was able to see with a grayscale pattern in only one direction. But with a split grapscale pattern with the horizontal grayscale steps moving in opposite directions, it's very obvious and most apparent in the 20-60 range.

I have been playing around with various ranges of calibrations, but the increased red/blue bias is not related to any gain/bias settings, contrast, iris ON, OFF or Auto or HIGH/LOW lamp.

I can be pretty certain about this happening in the last few weeks, maybe even less. I say that because I have been watching the various Star Wars movies with my 6 year old son during the holidays, and it was only recently I noticed the color shift of the opening yellow rolling credits. It's not a color shift I would have missed.

I recently added a High Power to my setup, but I also checked my other MATTE screen which also exhibits the same amount of red/blue bias.

I don't recall if this type of white balance problem being mentioned in the context of reported failing lamps.

It's almost as if one of my panels, maybe the blue, has changed and become weaker on the the left side.

I plan to send off an email to Sony, but I would love to hear any comments I have missed on this subject.


Now that you mention it my HS50 has the same issue with white, the left hand side of the screen is close to perfect while the right hand side has a progressively more noticable slightly bluish tint?

Strange part is that I dont have any convergance issues, does any one know what might cause this left to right colour shift?

zno: Glad to see us win a few bowl games this year. Also I am using the HS51, I guess it wasn't a model that had any issues, do you know there is a web page somewhere to check for problems, I heard you plug in your Serial number and it can tell you if your unit could have problems? What What specific problems where you having with your unit, meaning what border issues where popping up?

Is there a certain batch of this that had the problem, my serial number is 7 digits and starts with 200? Looks like mine doesn't have that issue. Is there any pictures of this problem in the vast sea of posts ;)

Thanks

Now that you mention it my HS50 has the same issue with white, the left hand side of the screen is close to perfect while the right hand side has a progressively more noticable slightly bluish tint?

Strange part is that I dont have any convergance issues, does any one know what might cause this left to right colour shift?

I believe 3 panel digial projectors, like 3 tube CRT projectors, have a very slight red/blue bias on the left/right because of the alignment/seperation of the 3 light sources.

However, the amount of biasing I am now seeing is much greater.

I am tempted to let my projector show a full 100% white screen for a half hour or so, to see if it balances out the biasing. I seem to recall there was some such maintenance which could be done with LCD panels if they start to become uneven.

If anyone knows about this type of tweaking, please comment.

zno: do you know there is a web page somewhere to check for problems, I heard you plug in your Serial number and it can tell you if your unit could have problems?
sony used to have this on their website up until last december but it's no where to be found today. in their defense, they only promised to fix this problem for free until end of dec 2005. so if you're trying have this problem fixed today, you'll probably need to make an arrangement w/ sony.

What specific problems where you having with your unit, meaning what border issues where popping up? Is there any pictures of this problem in the vast sea of posts ;)
go to page 23 post#1333...
unless you're one of early adopters, your pj should not have this problem.
sony upset a lot of early adopters and many returned their hs51 because sony didn't react to the problem soon enough.

thanks to bytethoven, we got the fix. he deligently worked with sony for the fix.


Is there a certain batch of this that had the problem, my serial number is 7 digits and starts with 200? Looks like mine doesn't have that issue.
i don't know the exact range of the batches that are affected. but it's very easy to test yourself. just simply input 720p source to your hs51 either via hdmi or component. if the image takes up the whole screen, then you're fine. if not, you'll need this fix.

zno, did they still charge you for the 720p fix? or did they credit you your money back?
no. they shipped my pj back the day after i complained about the charge. i know you're trying to get this fix too but i'm afraid it might be too late for the free fix. sony only promised until dec of 2005.

thanks to bytethoven, we got the fix. he deligently worked with sony for the fix.

Let me set the record straight.

I bought the HS-51 in January '05. A number of people had already been in contact with Sony regarding the 720p formating problem and they began working on the problem in late '04.

I jumped on the band wagon. Another AVS member was kind enough to give me contact info for several key Sony people, including a senior VP. I also had similar contacts with NEC, which helped Guitarman and I seek out some interesting software updates for the HT1000 projector (anamorphic scaling and customer installed updates). Unfortunately, all of those NEC friends have moved on. ;-(

When I contacted this group of Sony folks, it had to be pure coincidence that all of the puzzle pieces for the 720p fix had finally fallen into place. I was instructed to have my HS-51 repair performed by the Sony tech group in San Diego, other AVS folks were the 1st thru the Laredo site.

I think I was in the right place at the right time, and the word of the 720p fix would have made it's way to AVS eventually. All of my efforts might have been in a waste of time if other HS-51 owners had not started the ball rolling back in Nov/Dec of 2004.

So, while I did help play a part, I must say thank you to many other AVS members who contributed to the process.

PS... Now I must go to work on this red/blue left/right white balance issue and hope there is a fix available to bring my and other projectors back normal function.

A quick update.

I received email from one of my Sony contacts tonight, which is great considering it is a Saturday night. ;-)

I passed along the full story and he is going to let me know how I should proceed.

I checked again tonight, just to make sure I wasn't seeing things. I also tried running the full white screen for awhile and that had no affect.

I'll report back as soon as there is something to report.

Zno/Bytehoven: Looks like Sony still has the site up..... I just was curious about this, because I bought my unit not too long after they started making them, was using a HS20 which I wasn't all that impressed with. Will go the Miro Display via Sony if and when they bring the price down to a decent level.

HDNET and my other HD Channels on DirectTV come in full on 720p so I guess I don't have the problem and according to the web site my serial number says it doesn't need the fix.

http://esupport.sony.com/perl/news-item.pl?mdl=VPLHS51&news_id=67

I believe 3 panel digial projectors, like 3 tube CRT projectors, have a very slight red/blue bias on the left/right because of the alignment/seperation of the 3 light sources.

However, the amount of biasing I am now seeing is much greater.

I am tempted to let my projector show a full 100% white screen for a half hour or so, to see if it balances out the biasing. I seem to recall there was some such maintenance which could be done with LCD panels if they start to become uneven.

If anyone knows about this type of tweaking, please comment.


This can work for CRT, but not LCD based displays.

On a lcd base projector, it is usally dust collecting up on the panels. not large amounts, but they do get dirty over time.

The was a post a long time ago about cleaning the LCD panels to fix, this (with Pictures) but it was not on the Sony HS51. :(

-SOWK

SOWK: Don Munsil had a link and or on his page for the 10HT on how to open the unit up and clean it, I did it after over a year of viewing and had a green dust blob pop up. Took care of most of it, had a very tiny area far left corner of the screen that you could only see on certain sceens in a movie.

http://www.munsil.com/VW10HTFaq.htm

http://www.thecitycinema.com/new_page_7.htm

What they need is A: Make it easy to clean or B: Seal it so little and or no dust can collect on the panels, wishful thinking. The HS20 was even worse when it came to this..

Now I wish we had a dedicated page like these for just the HS50 - HS51, etc....... Anyone finds one let me know...

What they need is A: Make it easy to clean or B: Seal it so little and or no dust can collect on the panels, wishful thinking. The HS20 was even worse when it came to this...

I don't see the tell tale signs of dust blobs, but is what I have described consistent with one or more of the LCD panels experiencing dust build up?

I checked the filter and it was pretty clean. I don't know if that's good because I have small exposure to dust, or bad because dust has been getting thru the filter.

;-)

I'll see what Sony says. I have had the HS-51 open in the past, so I could try a cleaning of the panels.

I did a search on the zenith 318 dvd player tyring to hook up dvi-d to the hdmi - does anyone have any success? what kind of cable was used, Gefen?

Thanks.

Bytehoven: If know of any threads with good settings and or tweeks for the HS51 please post them, I have been going through this long thread and I have been finding some, but if you know of any links please post them, so I can bookmark them. My HS51 looks pretty darn good, especially playing HD content and the XBox 360, I was thinking of getting the DVDO HD+ box because I heard these two together do a great job on all material.

All of the best calibration settings have been posted in this thread.

I have some new ones I found for trying to minimize my latest red/blue left/right bias problem.

I confirmed tonight, when I 1st turned on the HS-51, the white balance is uniform edge to edge with my favorite old calibrations settings. Within a half hour, the left side had drifted to the red and the right side to the blue.

Arrrggghhh!

I haven't heard back from Sony yet, but the new calibrations should hold me over until I can get the projector problem figured out.

Incidently, I opened the HS-51 and confirmed it has a sealed light path. It looks like from the lamp window, to the ouput at the back of the lens, it's all closed up. It does not look like any chance of dust getting inside.

The fresnel glass at the front of the light engine lamp window was perfectly clean.

One of my panels is definitely changing as the projector heats up to operating temperature. I think it's the red panel based on the way the RGB bias/gain controls work pre & post the projector warm up.

Anyway. All of the best calibration settings are in this thread. You just need to weed them out. I think I have collected about 20 combinations, including a bunch of my own. Tom's MAX contrast approach were the lastest additions to the list.

Does anyone else see a change in white balance uniformity as their projector warms up?

BTW: The Iscan HD & HD+ are great processors. I think the OPPO is a little cleaner as far as it's reduction of EE & line ringing. The Iscan offers a world of beautiful scaling and other tweaks, especially if you use masking to switch between 16:9 and 2.35:1 screen formats. I might inclined to get something a little newer, or even wait just a while longer for the HQV & Gennum based video processors.

Bytehoven: Maybe it is time for the new SXRD FPs from Sony :) Well if they come down on price I am there... I just recently saw the new VPL-VW100, very sweet and of course excellent color and black levels, this is the next projector I want.

Hey if you have any good settings PM them to me.... Thanks for the help, much appeciated!!

Sorry to hear about your problems, Bytehoven! :( It does look that there's something moving out of place (probably due to heat) in the light engine. I haven't yet noticed anything like you're describing, but I'll do a more careful check next time I use the pj (currently using a to-be-replaced HS50 unit).

Are you using a full-white screen to check the uniformity (shading)? Because I noticed two things:
1. My screen uniformity is ok for full white or full black, but not that uniform for dark grey (a bit too red in the left side). It's probably one of those things that could be corrected in the "gamma" service menu, but not without proper equipment.
2. The shading changes with the lens shift - it's more uniform near the center. This is probably due to some optical effect.

Hope you can sort everything out! And please, keep us informed about your progress.

Dave.

Hi Dave...

I have checked the uniformity on both a DaLite HP and MATTE finish screens and I don't see anything different except the HP has an overall blue push, especially on the low end of the luminance scale.

Gamma shading would probably work. I did go into the service menu GAMMA section, and I can see it would be possible to correct the issue. However, it would require a special interface/tool to perform the shading at the correct luminance value on the correct areas of the screen. My concern is this might be an artifact that will continue to change over time, and possibly require additional attention. I mentioned this to Sony and I am hopefull they might have a shading calibration solution.

When looking at a crosshatch grayscale test pattern, although there is a overall red bias on the left side, there is a specific video level that is dramatically out of whack. The affected video range is the 70 bar, although I can make the extreme red bias move to the 80 or 60 bars via RGB bias/gain adjustments. It's the 70 bar for most of the main stream calibration settings people have posted as well as the factory LOW/MID/HI settings.

I will check out the lens shift possibility. I currently have the projector directly behind and 1 foot above the center seating position. I still have the higher rear shelf mount available, which places the projector 6" below the ceiling. I could try that higher position to see if it has any impact on the reproduction of white balance uniformity.

I will keep the thread informed as this issue evolves.

Looking for a starting point with the sony HS51 basic settings. As you can see I'm a novice. I primarily watch DVD's on a 110 inch firehawk with low controlled lighting. How would you you guys in the know, suggest changing the stock settings for a great picture short of doing a calibration?

Looking for a starting point with the sony HS51 basic settings. As you can see I'm a novice. I primarily watch DVD's on a 110 inch firehawk with low controlled lighting. How would you you guys in the know, suggest changing the stock settings for a great picture short of doing a calibration?

Try...

Contrast = 80
Brightness = 50
Color = 45
Hue = 50
Sharpness= OFF
Black = OFF
Gamma = OFF
Color Temp = LOW/MID/HI to preference.
Iris = AUTO
Lamp = HI/LOW to preference

If you have a good DVD player, the HS-51 should be good to go regarding color adjustments. You may need to tweak the Brightness setting to perfect black level performance, but 50 gets you in the ball park. Do Not go above 80 on the Contrast or you risk clipping bright white luminance values.

When you are ready to take the plunge, custom tuning your gray scale/white balance performance is the next step. IMHO, you should hire a professional and watch them calibrate for 6500k, 7800k and 9000k. That way you learn what each of those gray scale calibrations look like as well as how they were achieved. Obviously watching the process won't make you a professional, but you could learn enough to help you perform a rough white balance calibration in the future.

Welcome to the forum and good luck with your new projector.

Hope you can sort everything out! And please, keep us informed about your progress.

Dave.

I have been given the thumbs up to send my projector to Laredo.

AHHHHHHHHH !

;-)

I'll probably send it out on Friday or Monday, unless Sony agrees to let me try a new lamp, in an effort to rule out the possibility of a failing lamp as the cause.

I have been given the thumbs up to send my projector to Laredo.

AHHHHHHHHH !

;-)

I'll probably send it out on Friday or Monday, unless Sony agrees to let me try a new lamp, in an effort to rule out the possibility of a failing lamp as the cause.


Lamp is a possibility, mine now has about 1600 hours on it at aprox 50/50 High/Low Lamp usage as i used to use my PJ as my only display before i bought a plasma.

I first noticed the "blue tint" at around the 800 hour mark and my lamp is getting a bit dim now so a replacement is on the cars anyway. Before i had my PJ mounted on the ceiling I had quite a bit of lense shift to the right and i did notice then that the image was always slightly brighter on the left hand side - this does not seem to be the case now that my PJ mounting is centered with the screen.

Lamp is a possibility... I first noticed the "blue tint" at around the 800 hour mark ...

Hi...

Was the blue tint uniform across the screen or isolated to a particular area?

Thanks

Hi...

Was the blue tint uniform across the screen or isolated to a particular area?

Thanks

As mentioned earlier, the left hand side of the screen is a very pure white and from roughly the middle of the screen, the image becomes progressively "bluer" as you move further right. I've tried it on a couple of different screens and it's definitely my HS50.

I can cofirm that I also have the colour shift on my HS50. What I see is exactly the same. My HS50 is mounted upside down on the roof. I have a slightly red tint (due to panel allignment or calibration) on the left side of the screen moving to blue on the right with the changover point right in the center. I originaly thought that it was panel alignment causing the problem but with more people having the issue not so sure now. I'm on my second lamp as my first one blew at 498 hours and was replaced. I can honestky say it is only since the new lamp have i noticed the colour shift.

One other thing I have noticed is that after to projector has been left on for 30 mins if you go up to the screen you can see the panels vibrate and move about 2-5 MM. They shudder and the shrink and expnad towards the centre of the screen. This is only apparent on the top left hand of the screen witht he amount of movement decreasing as you move either down the screen or right of the top left hand corner (with pro mounted upside down) as the top right hand side they are rock solid and don't move. All 3 colours move you can see the SDE shrink in and out and move slightly with regars to focus like an old tv that was on it's way out.

Going to send my unit in for firmware update (for 720p blanking issue) check panel alignment the colour shift and the moving image.

One other thing I have noticed is that after to projector has been left on for 30 mins if you go up to the screen you can see the panels vibrate and move about 2-5 MM. They shudder and the shrink and expnad towards the centre of the screen. This is only apparent on the top left hand of the screen witht he amount of movement decreasing as you move either down the screen or right of the top left hand corner (with pro mounted upside down) as the top right hand side they are rock solid and don't move. All 3 colours move you can see the SDE shrink in and out and move slightly with regars to focus like an old tv that was on it's way out.

Be very careful that your mounting points aren't distorting your HS50's chassis, this could possibly cause what you are seeing. I noticed that my LP Morgan Skyhook required a washer to be placed directly onto each of the HS50's mount points before the mounts could be properly secured without distorting the chassis. Luck for me I realised this before I mounted mine and did any damage.

I went through a wide range of different projector setups tonight.

If I turn the projector upside down, the red/blue bias flips to red/right blue/left.

I tried the full range of horz and vert lens shift and it made no difference to the red/blue bias.

I tried using the internal manu FLIP settings for front/rear/table/ceiling projector mounting orientations, and the red/blue bias did not change.

When fliiping through some test patterns tonight, I noticed what looked like text burn in. In some other cases it looked like I could see organic LCD structure variations. In both cases I was pushing brightness upwards toward the max and the artifacts were only on certain luminance values.

The text burn in looked like a menu, but I could not read it and it did not look like anything familiar.

I don't assume anything regarding the burn in or organic artifacts, as I was pushing the panels probably near their limits of operation.

I watched War of the Worlds tonight, and my new calibrations have simply moved the worst of the red/blue artifact down into the 10-20 luminance value level. Boosting the brightness just a touch brings it right out. So calibration changes simply moves the artifact around rather than dialing it out.

I wish I had a time machine, because I'd like to go back a few weeks, months and really check for what I am seeing now. There would probably better uses for a time machine, but I might do the checking 1st. Well, it might be on the list. Who am kidding, if I had a time machine, I's go into the future and pick up a 4K rig for under $3500.

:p

Anyway. I'm pretty sure it's not the lamp, but I would be happy to be proven wrong.

Bytehoven: Tell Sony to fix it, depending on your Warr. they should fix it and or replace it. I had a 10HT for a year and started to see pixel dropouts called them they said there had to be a certain amount before I could send it in, I said you either fix this damn thing now and or replace it or I will never buy a Sony projector or products again. They sent me a new one, now I am not sure if they will do that again if something happens, but Sony can't afford to loose more customers. Samsung is giving them a run for there money with certain TVs, Apple is kicking there ass in the MP3 market and I heard the new CEO is all about customer service. Only one way to find out.. Sorry to hear about the problem, I am not even going to look for problems with mine, I did that with the 10HT and the HS20 with vertical banning issue and it drove me nuts, ironically I never saw it till someone mentioned it on here ;) Doh!

Well read a back post, sounds like there moving in the right direction to fix it, now hopefully they will see the same problems you see and or fix or replace the unit.

Kind of a poll question. Have many of you HS-51 owners went ahead and had your projector professionally calibrated? Would you do it again with your next projector? Was it a big difference? What did it cost you? Did the person have some type of certification? Any comments very much appreciated!!

Byte:

Thank you for all the work you have done in the past with this projector. I hope that you and others succeed with Sony on this shading issue.

I find it to be the biggest flaw with Sony's projectors. I have seen four units of the 51 (I own one), as well as many 10, 11, and 12HTs, and several HS10s and 20s, and all of them had bad shading problems. This problem is very difficult to spot with color material - basically a non- issue as long as you are watching color. It is even difficult to spot looking at IRE windows or fields. It is quite easy to spot with a crossed step pattern.

But for anyone who watches a lot of black and white material, it is very annoying. For some reason this problem seems to leap off the screen with complex black and white images - like real movies or the crossed step pattern.

I don't understand the technical reason why shading is a problem with three chip devices, but I know that it can be corrected - at least by William. Therefore it can be corrected (adjusted) at the factory before it leaves. I have seen a few Yamaha LCDs, and I have never seen a shading problem - and believe me I have looked for it. It just seems to me that Sony is not serious about dealing with this problem - probably because few people watch black and white.

If you go back and look at the screen shots posted on the forum during the 720 blanking and pixel mapping craze, you will find many windows desktops. Look at the menu bar. On every screen shot, you can see the menu bar change color. I never understood why there was so much fuss over a few pixels when no one even noticed that their image changes color from one side of the screen to the other.

Gray scale can always easily be adjusted at home, but without the sophisticated equipment and software of William, there is nothing one can do about shading problems.

Yamaha manages to get their projectors out the door without shading problems. I'm sure Sony could also - with enough pressure to do so.

Good luck, and thanks for all of your hard work and helpful suggestions with this machine.

Pip

Byte:

Thank you for all the work you have done in the past with this projector. I hope that you and others succeed with Sony on this shading issue.

Thanks Pip.

My shading issues are new. My projector always a very slight left/right white balance uniformity issue, but it has become much more pronounced.

The cause of left/right bias has to do with the splitting and recombining of the light path. Much like a 3 tube CRT projector or RPTV has blue or red shift if you are sitting at extreme angles, the 3 panel digital display can have similar, although reduce left/right biasing. Various projectors may use a slight variation in the method used to split and recombine the light path. There could be trade offs of brightness, contrast and white uniformity depending on which method is used.

I do not believe William Phelps ever ported his Qualia shading tools over to the HS-51. He has said he is working on the Ruby and I hope he successful. If he can, maybe the HS-51/51A would also be possible.

Sony has responded to my search for answers. They want me to send the projector in for evaluation. I'm certain they are going to see the problem and I am curious how they will proceed.

I will pack the HS-51 up tomorrow and ship it out. I should know by mid next week how they will resolve the problem.

Thanks again for your comments.

djos

Nope fault is there with projector right side up on flat ground

Thanks Pip.

My shading issues are new. My projector always a very slight left/right white balance uniformity issue, but it has become much more pronounced.

The cause of left/right bias has to do with the splitting and recombining of the light path. Much like a 3 tube CRT projector or RPTV has blue or red shift if you are sitting at extreme angles, the 3 panel digital display can have similar, although reduce left/right biasing. Various projectors may use a slight variation in the method used to split and recombine the light path. There could be trade offs of brightness, contrast and white uniformity depending on which method is used.

I do not believe William Phelps ever ported his Qualia shading tools over to the HS-51. He has said he is working on the Ruby and I hope he successful. If he can, maybe the HS-51/51A would also be possible.

Sony has responded to my search for answers. They want me to send the projector in for evaluation. I'm certain they are going to see the problem and I am curious how they will proceed.

I will pack the HS-51 up tomorrow and ship it out. I should know by mid next week how they will resolve the problem.

Thanks again for your comments.

How many hours are on it, bringing out this problem?

Kind of a poll question. Have many of you HS-51 owners went ahead and had your projector professionally calibrated? Would you do it again with your next projector? Was it a big difference? What did it cost you? Did the person have some type of certification? Any comments very much appreciated!!

I did it myself and yes when you flip to the calibrated changes vs the stock choices it looks allot better.











But I could live with the Cinema and Dynamic presets for the right material. ;)

I just got my HS51 back from Laredo (like most other folks I sent it back for 720p service fix). Can someone tell me what the latest firmware update is (I searched the forums and couldn't find what is considered the latest)? Unfortunately, I didn't make note of what my versions were before the update.

My concern is that I didn't specifically ask to perform a firmware update and I didn't make note of my version before sending it to Laredo. According to the invoice, it says the repair work involved fixing "constant distorted picture; cleaned and/or lubricated". Also, when I filled out Sony's webform there was no place to note I wanted firmware update. It's unclear from their comments on the invoice that a firmware update was performed.

Currently mine says (from Service Menu):

ROM Version: 01.02/11.03
SC ROM Version: 01.02
IP ROM Version: 01.02

Thanks for the help.

Currently mine says (from Service Menu):

ROM Version: 01.02/11.03
SC ROM Version: 01.02
IP ROM Version: 01.02

Thanks for the help.

That is the latest with the 720p fix, 1.01 had the blanking issue.

I checked my HS50 last night. I also have a slight red-blue shift, more noticeable on dark patterns, as I commented early. I had a demo unit in my house previously, and it was much the same. I see the shading mostly on subtitles (especially during dark scenes) or on solid dark-grey pictures. I re-checked the shading again after ~2 hours of pj use and didn't notice any variation like Bytehoven describes.

I'm almost 100% sure that the shading effect could be completely eliminated using the service menu, but I don't think this can be done by eye alone, as there are a lot of entries to tweak.

Dave.

Well, my scratched HS50 unit has finally been exchanged this weekend (it had been scratched by Sony's Service Center). The store from where I bought it was really impecable. They didn't give me any problems whatsoever, and they actually suggested that I could upgrade my unit to the new HS60 for a symbolic price (~$20), which, of course, I accepted. :D

I now have a brand new HS60. As an added bonus, this unit came with much, much better panel alignment, almost perfect and a great deal better than the HS50 I had (just lucky, I guess, as there are mixed reports on this).

I hadn't had the time to do much tweaking and calibrations, but my first impressions on the HS60 vs the HS50 are the same as others - better blacks, contrast and shadow detail. Where I notice it the most is on shadow detail. I had to compress the lower video levels using gamma correction on the HTPC in order to get the correct shadow detail. This was a compromise, as I could sometimes see a little color banding (not VB) due to the higher gamma compressing the colors. On the HS60 I disabled this, as it is not needed. Also, on bright scenes the black borders of movies are darker, and so are the dark details. Of course, I'm happy. :)

Cheers,
Dave.

Wow Dave, very nice.

I can only hope if my HS-51 is in bad enough shape, they will also offer to replace it with e HS-51A. :)

Perhaps the 50 is hard to come by since the new projector has been out for awhile?

I would love to hear any additional observations as you live with the new projector.

Howdy folks-

My lamp burned out at 541 hours. I had it on dynamic, lamp was on high, and it was placed on a platform mounted to the ceiling. Too say the least I was not pleased. I had it for about 4 months when this happened.

So...I called Sony. I went through all kinds of departments and 2nd tiers of support. And then I called again, and again, and again. Up to then they were expecting me to swallow $350. Finally, I got someone who said I needed to mail a check to a Sony shop in Florida for $200. Not too shabby since the cheapest I could find online was $240 before shipping.

Quite frankily though, this is nuts, I found this quote from a different forum, maybe it bares some truth-

Having suffered through replacing a lamp after 300 hrs. of use, and no help from Sony, I stumbled upon a quirk of this projector. The fan speed is not determined by the temp of the lamp. Therefore, if you turn a source off before turning off the projector the fan goes to its slowest speed. However, if you leave a source on while the projector is going through cool down (off mode) the fan remains at the high speed until the lamp has cooled. If there has been some kind of modification on the 51A, please let me know. At a dollar a minute for bulb use, the 51 is a really bad deal and I hope the guys that run this site will alert the consumer.

Howdy folks-
Having suffered through replacing a lamp after 300 hrs. of use, and no help from Sony, I stumbled upon a quirk of this projector. The fan speed is not determined by the temp of the lamp. Therefore, if you turn a source off before turning off the projector the fan goes to its slowest speed.

At a dollar a minute for bulb use, the 51 is a really bad deal and I hope the guys that run this site will alert the consumer.

My HS50 (bought December 2004 and now upgraded to FW1.02) does not do this at all.

I do agree that the lamp life is not quite what it's cracked up to be (3000 on economy), mine is now getting a bit dim after only 1700 hours of 50/50 High/Low Lamp use. :(

J-dog...

They are very close to Kris's settings, and you took RB down from 123 to 110.

Note my contrast = 95. At that high of a contrast setting, the GG has to be reduced to avoid high luminance clipping. As a result, the overall calibration is like being on a different planet when the contrast is brought back down to the 80 or below range.

I still have some movie watching to do in order to get a better handle on the overall astethic of pushing the calibration in this way suggested by Guitarman (Tom).

So far, I'm a little excited by the different approach. Watching Sin City is definitely a more comfortable experience, because the color of white is more stable at the various luminance levels of B&W reproduction in the film. On another film, Stealth, the various bright exterior shots of the aircraft carrier, also felt more more uniform and white neutral.

I wish I understood more regarding what changes in the HS-51 as the master contrast is taken from 80 into the 90+ range.

I'm sure part of the "flat" benefit I am seeing, is because I have calibrated a color temp well above 6500k, and the HS-51 is a little more forgiving. Still it seems to offer a better flat response than I could achieve at 80 contrast.

I'm looking forward to hear more from Tom as he really digs into the HS-51.

Yeah I'm digging alright :) I'm at writing down number 39 on a long list of panel drivers. I assume this is where you can re- align panels over time? Anybody do it?

Brightness on a new lamp is 11.50ft-candles in dynamic which I thought would be the brightest. But choosing Cinema I get 11.85ft-candles. This is an ok brightness level it's around 400lumens on the 106" 1.0gain screen.

Actually 11.85ftc is 471 lumens - not bad!

Howdy folks-


Having suffered through replacing a lamp after 300 hrs. of use, and no help from Sony, I stumbled upon a quirk of this projector. The fan speed is not determined by the temp of the lamp. Therefore, if you turn a source off before turning off the projector the fan goes to its slowest speed. However, if you leave a source on while the projector is going through cool down (off mode) the fan remains at the high speed until the lamp has cooled. If there has been some kind of modification on the 51A, please let me know. At a dollar a minute for bulb use, the 51 is a really bad deal and I hope the guys that run this site will alert the consumer.

-

I have been trying to verify if there is any correlation of fan speed to bulb/lamp life. If there is a correlation, would it make sense to keep the projector in high altitude mode, which increases the fan speed? Or to at least run it in high altitude mode most of the time, and turn it off for special viewing? I was looking for a bulb cost of $.10 - $20 per hour of use, but my last bulb cost me almost $1.00 per hour. Any help I can get on stretching my bulb dollars would be appreciated.

Friar

I have my HS51 ceiling mounted, and aligned the top of the image perfectly with the top of the screen. Couple of days ago, I noticed that the image has dropped about 1/8 of an inch, or a couple of mms and I had to move the image back up.

Is anyone else having this problem? Should the lens shift be dropping? Should I call Sony and ask them to fix it?

Thanks
Gireesh

Howdy folks-

My lamp burned out at 541 hours. I had it on dynamic, lamp was on high, and it was placed on a platform mounted to the ceiling. Too say the least I was not pleased. I had it for about 4 months when this happened.

So...I called Sony. I went through all kinds of departments and 2nd tiers of support. And then I called again, and again, and again. Up to then they were expecting me to swallow $350. Finally, I got someone who said I needed to mail a check to a Sony shop in Florida for $200. Not too shabby since the cheapest I could find online was $240 before shipping.

Quite frankily though, this is nuts, I found this quote from a different forum, maybe it bares some truth-

Few pages ago, there was someone stating that he found a source for these lamps at for less than a hundred dollars. Has anyone else found this source? Was that just a rumour?

Gireesh....some drift in the image seems to be normal. Some of us got lamps for $199.00 recently. The place we got them quickly ran out of stock and also sold those they had on back order.

I have my HS51 ceiling mounted, and aligned the top of the image perfectly with the top of the screen. Couple of days ago, I noticed that the image has dropped about 1/8 of an inch, or a couple of mms and I had to move the image back up.

Is anyone else having this problem? Should the lens shift be dropping? Should I call Sony and ask them to fix it?

Thanks
Gireesh

I think it is normal as well. I have seen this drift on several projectors and the HS-51 seems a little better than the others. I had a projector that would tilt a little, so I had to adjust a front leg post as well as height. The HS-51 seems to be just height.

If you over project the image onto your screen masking about a 1/4", you will probably never see the drift again, as it goes back and forth in it's range of ocsilation.

I think it is normal as well. I have seen this drift on several projectors and the HS-51 seems a little better than the others. I had a projector that would tilt a little, so I had to adjust a front leg post as well as height. The HS-51 seems to be just height.

If you over project the image onto your screen masking about a 1/4", you will probably never see the drift again, as it goes back and forth in it's range of ocsilation.

Same here. I also noticed on the HS50 and now on the HS60 that the focus changes as the unit warms up (maybe 10 to 15 minutes?). When I turn the unit on, it will be slightly out of focus, but if I try to focus it, after warming up it will be out-of-focus again, so it's better to leave focusing alone and let the unit warm up. I guess nothing is perfect... :)

Dave.

Same here. I also noticed on the HS50 and now on the HS60 that the focus changes as the unit warms up (maybe 10 to 15 minutes?). When I turn the unit on, it will be slightly out of focus, but if I try to focus it, after warming up it will be out-of-focus again, so it's better to leave focusing alone and let the unit warm up. I guess nothing is perfect... :)

Dave.

Interesting... that explains what I thought I was seeing too... change in focus that is.

My HS-51 had the same len warm focus issue as well, no big deal, I just let it warm up for abt 15-20 mins. Then its nice and sharp. But honestly if you are watching a movie from minute 1, its not really that noticeable.

hey everyone,

I'm panicking and need some help. I've had my unit just over a year (by a couple of days) and have approx 700 hrs on the bulb. During the last two times I used the pj I have noticed REALLY bad vertical banding, (the vertical bands seem to pulse, especially in dark or grey scenes) as well as two horizontal color bands that move from the bottom of the screen to the top. One is about 9" tall and has a magenta color, the other has a green tint and is about 2" tall. The horizontal bands of color move at a constant rate. Neither of the problems goes away when the pj warms up. It happens on DVD and HD. Both sources are fed via component thru my receiver.

Is it possible that my receiver could be the culprit? Or am I looking at having to send my PJ in for service days after the warranty ran out?

Dave

By the way I also have the focus issue.

Got my Sony from a forum member about 2 weeks ago. It has the old firmware. I'm feeding it with a zenith 318 over component upconvert to 1080i. All my dvd's were stretched and the Wide Mode button is disabled. The button works at 480p. Is there anyway of enabling the button, such as through the Service Menu? Thanks.

New or old firmware, all Sony projectors disable aspect ratio control when receiving HD resolutions (anything above 480P). This occurs through all inputs. I believe all Sony 16x9 displays do this also, as well as several other brands. The standard for HD resolutions specifies 16x9 images. You can find upconverting DVD players which allow you to control AR from the player itself.

Another issue you will find with upconverting DVD players (including your Zenith) is a problem with colorspace conversion. Sony (as well as other) displays expect HD colorspace when receiving HD resolutions. It is not user selectable with HD resolutions. But many upconverting DVD players fail to convert the DVD colorspace to HD colorspace. This results in a yellowish overall color, and jaundiced looking skin tones.

It is very difficult to find information on which players properly convert colorspace, or have it user selectable. Not even the otherwise stellar Secrets reviews test for this.

On the AVS DVD forum, you can find this info, but even then it is not easy, with no faq or easily searchable sticky for this info. Many profesional reviewers and forum members who are adept at finding all the rarely visible artifacts with any upconverting DVD player seem not to notice that with many displays, all the colors are way off the mark for every frame of the film.

Pip

Pip,

Thank you for the informative reply, esp. about upconverting player "messing up" the colors. I kept my panny rp56 480p dvd to watch my 4x3 films and concerts.

Zenith does have a positive zoom to stretch the squeezed signal.

Lenny

hey everyone,

I'm panicking and need some help. I've had my unit just over a year (by a couple of days) and have approx 700 hrs on the bulb. During the last two times I used the pj I have noticed REALLY bad vertical banding, ........ Or am I looking at having to send my PJ in for service days after the warranty ran out?

Dave

I have noticed VB appearing on mine as well. I am at the 1 year mark and about 700 hours as well. I haven't done anything about it yet, but I believe that the warranty on the HS51 is 2 years, not 1 year so you may still be covered...

John

10 months and 1016hrs before lamp burnout . After reading the posts on other peoples lamp life I also decided to set the fan on high mode. There also seems to be quite a wide range of lamp life expectency and nowhere near the 3000hrs in eco mode that Sony claims so far. I've also done a Google search on lamp life and it seems that heat is the #1 factor of failure. My Epson PJ I had before was rated at 1400hrs and it lasted 1420hrs before dimming out but it didn't burnout and it had no eco modes.. however I sold it and bought the Sony so I'll never know how long it would have really lasted. It seems that it was more reliable than the Sony. Food for thought...

DaveHe, don't panic, the warranty is 2 yrs... I checked, I had a Plasma TV go south on me 10 days after the one year warranty expired.

WOW... I now have my Picture Quality Just outstanding on my Sony HS-51.

Settings:

Source = Bravo D2 720P (DVI)
Converter = DVI to VGA
Input = VGA

Brightness = 40
Contrast = 85
Lamp = Low
Iris = Auto
Color = User 1 (RG = 12 , GG = 0, BG = -17 / RB = -5, GB = 0, BB = 0)
Gama = none
Black Enhancment = Off

I lose a little grey scale tracking about 5% - but the picture quality, and the three dimentionality of the picture more then makes up for it. plus now the colors pop like no other.

Someone try it and let me know what you think!

-SOWK

P.S. Here is my final setup!
http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/3263/hometheaterfulllowres1no.jpg

What do you guys think?

Sowk,

What kind of screen? Is your room light controlled?

Lenny

Sowk,

What kind of screen? Is your room light controlled?

Lenny

Its a DIY, 8' X 5 ' Foam board from a art store then painted with a matte paint (FOG) from Home Depot. And yes the room is completely light controlled.

-SOWK

SOWK,

Will check it out this weekend.

Lenny

Hi, all! Great thread going here...
I was wondering if a video processor or scaler would help increase the quality of cable, satellite, and dvd? In the video processor forum they said it would be a waste since the pj native is only 720p. what do you all suggest?

Thanks
Chris

Hi, all! Great thread going here...
I was wondering if a video processor or scaler would help increase the quality of cable, satellite, and dvd? In the video processor forum they said it would be a waste since the pj native is only 720p. what do you all suggest?
I'm not sure what being "only 720p" has to do with the improvement from a scaler. An external scaler can potentially improve any resolution if the built in scaler is not good. You could get smoother motion and less artifacts regardless.

I have been testing a DVDO Iscan VP30 with my HS-51. One problem with using a scaler with the HS-51 is that you cannot get 1x1 pixel mapping over HDMI. So even if you send 720P the HS-51 will rescale it. Even with all the adjustments in the VP30 I have not found a way around this.

That said, it still provides some improvement in picture quality for DVD. It is not dramatic, but I can see it. I have not tried cable or satellite. Maybe of more value is flexibility and control. With the VP30 you can set any image size, position or aspect ratio you want. You can shrink the image to eliminate the 3% overscan in the HS-51. You can make a 2.35 movie larger to reduce or eliminate the black bars, or shift it up or down so you only have one black bar.

If you order from the DVDO web site they offer a 30 day no questions return policy. This is great because the only way to tell if a scaler is worth it to you is to try it with your setup.

Thanks for the quick reply.
Here is the topic in the Processors section.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7010294#post7010294
Whats better for our projectors? Iscan HD+ or this new VP30?
Any other solutions to get better quality?

Thanks again

Whats better for our projectors? Iscan HD+ or this new VP30?
I guess it depends on what type of sources you have or plan to buy. If you are going to have multiple sources with HDMI then it's probably worth the extra money for the VP30 to get the 4 HDMI inputs and switching. If you don't think you will need that for some time, the HD+ is cheaper and you can upgrade later. DVDO offers upgrade trade-in deals. Also if you plan to connect the scaler to the PJ using analog RGB (VGA connector), then you can't use some HDMI sources because of HDCP, so you might as well save the money and get the HD+. I went with the VP30 because I already have two HDMI sources and figure within the next year I will have either HD-DVD or BluRay which will only ouput HD over HDMI.

I'm not sure what being "only 720p" has to do with the improvement from a scaler. An external scaler can potentially improve any resolution if the built in scaler is not good. You could get smoother motion and less artifacts regardless.

I have been testing a DVDO Iscan VP30 with my HS-51. One problem with using a scaler with the HS-51 is that you cannot get 1x1 pixel mapping over HDMI. So even if you send 720P the HS-51 will rescale it. Even with all the adjustments in the VP30 I have not found a way around this.

That said, it still provides some improvement in picture quality for DVD. It is not dramatic, but I can see it. I have not tried cable or satellite. Maybe of more value is flexibility and control. With the VP30 you can set any image size, position or aspect ratio you want. You can shrink the image to eliminate the 3% overscan in the HS-51. You can make a 2.35 movie larger to reduce or eliminate the black bars, or shift it up or down so you only have one black bar.

If you order from the DVDO web site they offer a 30 day no questions return policy. This is great because the only way to tell if a scaler is worth it to you is to try it with your setup.


Thats not right, i have 1x1 pixel mapping over hdmi with the iscan HD+, you must use the underscan function in the iscan. It works perfect for me.

Thats not right, i have 1x1 pixel mapping over hdmi with the iscan HD+, you must use the underscan function in the iscan. It works perfect for me.

WOW... hehe. He must be new. ;)


What you have is no overscan - you also have a 720P Source that fills the panels of the Sony HS-50(1). But in no way shape or form do you have 1:1 Mapping.

That is resurved only for my wonderfull Input-A only projector.

(hope you picked up on that one byte!) :p

-SOWK

Thats not right, i have 1x1 pixel mapping over hdmi with the iscan HD+, you must use the underscan function in the iscan. It works perfect for me.

Zero % underscan is not the same thing as 1:1. If you use the crosshatch pattern in the HD+ and compare Input A vs DVI/HDMI you should be able to tell the difference but the only real way is to use one single pixel.

SOWK,

I've a 92 inch hccv screen sitting at > 2X screen width using a zenith 318 via component to upconvert. Save your setting as User 2, comparing to my User 1/User 2:

Brightness = 45/40
Contrast = 65/85
Lamp = Low
Iris = Auto
Color = RG = -3/12 , GG = 0, BG = 0/-17 / RB = 0/-5, GB = 0, BB = 0)
Gama = none
Black Enhancment = Off

I've also set DDE=film and Sharpness to 35.

I compare yours with my 4 benchmark films, LOTR/FOTR, Dark City, Moulin Rogue and Hero, prefer yours in most cases.

Yours provides a more snappy/sharper contrast and richer red (especially Maggie Cheung's red dress in Hero was almost bleeding). In user 2 setting, I need to dial down the color to 45 from 50. Found the grass in the Shire scene more realistic green.

First time I watched a 1967 Le Samurai with Alan Delon. Consider the vintage, flash tone was good and the night scenes were black to dark grey. For LCD, I'm very happy with the purchase.

With all the news on bulb failure, I set my fan to high by selecting high altitude. Fan noise was definitley louder. Once the film started, it was not as obvious. My heating system masked the fan completely.

Thanks,
Lenny

Thats not right, i have 1x1 pixel mapping over hdmi with the iscan HD+, you must use the underscan function in the iscan. It works perfect for me.
Are you using the HDMI input on your HS-50/51? It's easy to get 1x1 pixel mapping with RGB to Input A, HDMI is the problem.

I assume the HD+ has the same test patterns as the VP30. Check the 1 pixel checkboard and 1 pixel vertical and horizontal lines. If you can't see all the individual pixels/lines with no interference patterns, you aren't getting 1x1 pixel mapping. What you have done is shrunk the source image so that you can see it all within the overscan cropping of the HS-51, but the HS-51 is still rescaling it.

If it looks perfect, post your HD+ settings and I will give them a try with the VP30.

[QUOTE=jschefdog] .

With the VP30 you can set any image size, position or aspect ratio you want. You can shrink the image to eliminate the 3% overscan in the HS-51. You can make a 2.35 movie larger to reduce or eliminate the black bars, or shift it up or down so you only have one black bar. [Quote]

Can you please clarify "overscan". By "3% overscan", does it mean that the picture would be 3% larger than the screen. If that's the case, could we not use the zoom in the projector to decrease the size of the picture so it would fit the screen? This term has confused me for a long time, and I hope to get a better understanding of it.

Also please explain what "vertical banding" mean and look like? I've seen this term many times and have no idea what it is. Thanks.

I assume the HD+ has the same test patterns as the VP30. Check the 1 pixel checkboard and 1 pixel vertical and horizontal lines. If you can't see all the individual pixels/lines with no interference patterns, you aren't getting 1x1 pixel mapping. If it looks perfect, post your settings and I will give them a try.

Have you adjusted the HS-51 sync controls while viewing the checkerboard pattern?

Even on the pre-720p updated HS-51, some sync adjustment of the H Width was required for perfect performance of the checkerboard pattern.

Techincally, you should also be able to get to the same place by seperately adjusting the vertical & horizontal timings on the VP30 output. That is, leave the HS-51 "as is" and then tweak the VP sync timings while watching the checkerboard pattern.

Isn't one of the advantages of the VP, the ability to store/save custom timings?

I would start with the standard VP30 720P timings and then reduce the H Width value, while observing the checkerboard pattern. I'm a little rusty since I have not played with an Iscan since the Spring of last year, but I think it was simply an adjustment to the signal width to get back top checkerboard performance.

Kinda off topic but what is the Network Connection for on the front of the PJ?
Thanks

SOWK,

I've a 92 inch hccv screen sitting at > 2X screen width using a zenith 318 via component to upconvert. Save your setting as User 2, comparing to my User 1/User 2:

Brightness = 45/40
Contrast = 65/85
Lamp = Low
Iris = Auto
Color = RG = -3/12 , GG = 0, BG = 0/-17 / RB = 0/-5, GB = 0, BB = 0)
Gama = none
Black Enhancment = Off

I've also set DDE=film and Sharpness to 35.

I compare yours with my 4 benchmark films, LOTR/FOTR, Dark City, Moulin Rogue and Hero, prefer yours in most cases.

Yours provides a more snappy/sharper contrast and richer red (especially Maggie Cheung's red dress in Hero was almost bleeding). In user 2 setting, I need to dial down the color to 45 from 50. Found the grass in the Shire scene more realistic green.

First time I watched a 1967 Le Samurai with Alan Delon. Consider the vintage, flash tone was good and the night scenes were black to dark grey. For LCD, I'm very happy with the purchase.

With all the news on bulb failure, I set my fan to high by selecting high altitude. Fan noise was definitley louder. Once the film started, it was not as obvious. My heating system masked the fan completely.

Thanks,
Lenny

We are using very different inputs, I assume you are HDMI? I am using VGA, which has alot less red push. So your settings for -3 RB is probably right for you.

Its funny, but when you just switch back and forth between settings on the fly you really don't notice to may differences. But when you sit down a watch it ( At least with myset up ) most of everything Jumps out at me. I just had a friend come over last night to wath Ladykillers. He could not stop talking about how good the picture was. I today am also going to test out the Ruby with my new settings.

So in the end are you going to keep my new settings on your remote? Also when you use them, is the Image more 3 Dimentional to you?

Also what was the instance you didn't like it as much? I need all the input I can get. I want to see if I can find a mode of perfection for the HS-51

-SOWK

This may be a bit off topic, but I haven't been able to find a discussion of it elsewhere -- what is the best way to clean the lens on the HS-51 after dust has accumulated on it? Is there a special brush that should be used or is it as simple as using glass cleaner and a cloth?

Can you please clarify "overscan". By "3% overscan", does it mean that the picture would be 3% larger than the screen. If that's the case, could we not use the zoom in the projector to decrease the size of the picture so it would fit the screen? This term has confused me for a long time, and I hope to get a better understanding of it.
Overscan means that the source image has been made larger so that it is larger than the available display area. So part of the available source image has been cropped and you cannot see it. It is pretty easy to see if you watch CNN or something with a ticker at the bottom. If overscan is excessive you will see that part of the ticker is not visible. It is also obvious with a connected PC since part of the Windows desktop is cropped.

The best way to test for it is to use a test pattern with markers which indicate the edges of the image and every 1% inward from that, such as those on Avia or Video Essentials. The amount is typically expressed as the percentage cropped from each edge in these test patterns. For the HS-51 it varies from about 2-5% depending on the source and resolution. With Input A in computer mode you can get zero overscan and 1x1 pixel mapping.

Zooming the projector will not help. Essentially part of the source image is beyond the edge of the LCD panels, so mechanical adjustment will not change it. It can be adjusted electronically if the display supports it, but I don't think anyone ever found a way to adjust this on the HS-51. If you use a scaler such as the VP30 which has an underscan adjustment, you can eliminate the overscan, but that does not mean you are getting 1x1 pixel mapping. You have just shrunk the input image so that it fits within the cropped area of the overscanned display. The image is still being rescaled by the display to produce the overscan.

Have you adjusted the HS-51 sync controls while viewing the checkerboard pattern?....
Thanks for the tips, but I did try those type of adjustments. I can't say I tried every possible combination, but I did spend quite a bit of time tweaking it. The problem is that if you stray too far from HDMI standard 720P settings the HS-51 will go blank with a "Frequency out of Range" message. The VP30 can save and recall custom timings, but I could never find a setting which displayed the checkerboard. It always looked like a uniform gray background. I also could never eliminate the interference patterns in either the vertical or horizontal lines.

Kinda off topic but what is the Network Connection for on the front of the PJ?
Thanks
If you connect to your network and open a web browser to the IP address of the HS-51, you will get a web UI that allows the same type of adjustments available from the on screen Menus. Supposedly you can also do custom control programming similar to what is done with RS-232 on other devices, but I have never seen any posts from somebody who actually did it. One thing you need to know. If you connect a network cable, you need to unplug the HS-51 power, wait a few seconds, then plug it back in to make a network connection. It seems that the only time the HS-51 broadcasts to establish a network connection is plugged in. Turning it on/off won't do it.

This may be a bit off topic, but I haven't been able to find a discussion of it elsewhere -- what is the best way to clean the lens on the HS-51 after dust has accumulated on it? Is there a special brush that should be used or is it as simple as using glass cleaner and a cloth?
Go to a camera store, they will have brushes and blowers for removing the dust from lenses. Some people also like the Lens Pen. See www.lenspen.com for more details.

SOWK,

I'm using component, not HDMI. The zenith froze when I connect a DVI-D to HDMI cable. Yes, I saved your setting as User 2 and mine as User 1 and toggle between the two.

Yours' have a more 3-D look but greater contrast (meaaning darker overall picture). In either setting, I found concerts with transition from dark to light scene blinding, meaning the brigtness was overbearing which I did not find that in my dlp pj. Not sure if that has to do with the auto-iris working.

I set my Sharpness to 35; may want to dial it down somewhat.

Today, I'm watching Sideways and can't get the green right no matter which user setting I used. Don't know if it's the movie. Also, the PQ is POOR but it's really not my kind of movie. In the LOTR Shire scene, the grass looked fairly natural as well as Fordo's face. Last night, Phantom of the Opera was super in PQ. The 2 guys can't act or sing though.

Overall, I'm very happy with the purchase. Thanks.

Lenny

Just an update sports fans.

My HS-51 is headed back to me and should arrive on Tuesday.

So far I have a couple of complaints, which I will certainly share with Sony. I feel the Laredo site is seriously lacking in the fundamental communication skills many of us expect when we are having our projector serviced. They rarely return emails, and when they do, they don't speak in complete sentences or go into any detail regarding what service was planned or done. Calling them on the phone is almost as bad, as I was not able to find someone who could speak competently or speak directly to my projector service/repair.

I hope my criticism when shared with Sony, will help them focus some attention on the customer service experience when dealing with the Laredo site.

I was told they "replaced the prism block and adjusted the W/B on the right hand". I have asked for more complete details on the repair and I hope they respond so I can share a little more information regarding the cause/solution of my grayscale/white balance issue.

I have my fingers crossed and I'm knocking on wood. I hope the Laredo site's technical capabilities are vastly superior to their communication skills.

More very soon.

Bytehoven, I didn't have communication problems with the Laredo service center when I sent my VPL-HS10 in for service, they just never fixed the problem, even after 4 tries! It finally took getting a Sony engineer out of San Diego involved to get my issues resolved. What's funny (not really, it took over a year to get satisfaction) is that my problems required simple factory mode adjustments that I was able to do myself -- the projector never even needed to leave my house!
Now that I'm finally completely satisfied with my HS10, I'm sure that something else will go wrong (perhaps the prism block) and I'll be SOL since I'm out of warranty...

Bytehoven, I didn't have communication problems with the Laredo service center when I sent my VPL-HS10 in for service, they just never fixed the problem, even after 4 tries! It finally took getting a Sony engineer out of San Diego involved to get my issues resolved. What's funny (not really, it took over a year to get satisfaction) is that my problems required simple factory mode adjustments that I was able to do myself -- the projector never even needed to leave my house!
Now that I'm finally completely satisfied with my HS10, I'm sure that something else will go wrong (perhaps the prism block) and I'll be SOL since I'm out of warranty...

San Diego has been my techincal contact in the past as well, specifically Vinh Vo.

I copied Vinh on all of my correspondence with Laredo, and I am hoping there was some level of San Diego/Laredo synergy as they worked on my projector.

Thanks for sharing your experience and I hope the HS-10 can hold you over until your ready to upgrade.

I have the same complaints regarding Sony's lack of communication with the customer, here in Portugal. One guy from the store where I bought my ex-HS50 talked with some guys from Sony's professional services about a little misalignment issue (an uniform, all screen, exact-1-pixel-to-the-right misalignment of the green panel). They told him that this kind of misalignment on the HS50 could be fixed quickly and easily just with special software, so the store advised me to send my unit to Sony's service center. After 2 weeks (it was supposed to take little more than a couple of days...) they returned me the unit saying they didn't find the problem. Thing is, they could have called me (they had my contact number) to clarify what the problem was if they weren't able to find it themselves. What's worse, they ended up scratching the unit. :(

I can only thank the professionalism of the store where I bought the unit, because they took care of that problem themselves and ordered a new unit for me, so as to avoid being left without a pj for more time. Also, they let me have the scratched (but working) unit until the new arrived. Finally, they ended up calling me to ask me if I wanted to upgrade to the new HS60 (which meanwhile had become available), for a symbolic price (~$20), which, of course, I accepted. This is excellent customer service, but not thanks to Sony... I now have the HS60, which came fine and with no misalignment issues (almost perfect).

I wrote a letter to Sony explaining what happened and giving some suggestions on how they could improve their service, including calling the customer when they don't find or understand the complaint. Maybe this will make any difference in the future, I can only hope. I think all you guys that were not happy with your service should do the same in your countries. If more people do this, it may end up making a difference.

Cheers,
Dave.

Greetings,

I had to deal with Sony Laredo back in early 2004 when I had the HS10. I sent it in for service after calling them directly and dealing with " Bernice ". I am not even sure if she is still there. Fortunately I had a very positive experience with them. My unit was serviced under warranty and back to me within 9 days ( which included the day it left and the day it returned ).

The unit returned safely without a scratch and performed flawlessly until the day I sold it. As far as I know it is still up and running.

In April 2005 I bought my HS-51. I waited and bought one of the first units to be sold which included the 720p HDMI fix. So far my HS-51 has performed up to and exceeded expectations....

I hope that all of those who have had issues can resolve them quickly and without any additional grief.


Regards,

San Diego has been my techincal contact in the past as well, specifically Vinh Vo.
Yep, Vinh's my guy too.

Bytehoven, FWIW, my exp. with the Laredo facility has been the same as yours. Nice enough people, but poor communcation & tracking skills. but i do love my HS51!

Hi jschefdog,

Thanks for your explanation of "overscan". Now I've a clearer idea of what it is and how to check for it. I really appreciate your taking time to educate me on some projector basics.

OK, the Eagle has landed. :D

I received some clarification and interesting facts.

My prism block was replaced which included the LCD panel assembly. The new prism block is as good as my previous regarding edge to edge convergence.

I was also told "special gamma shading software was replaced". This was explained as two things.

1st, my LOW, MID & HIGH color temps have been recalibrated and are different than the previous factory settings. They are now as follows:

.......LOW.....MID....HI....
RG ...115.....120....128
GG ....87......105....114
BB .....92.....103....139
RB ...132.....130....129
GB ...113.....119....118
BB ...127.....129....132

2nd, I was told Sony has a new Gamma Shading tool for the HS-51/50 with versions for the 51A/60 & the new VW100 Ruby. This shading tool works on 7 video levels on 256 points on the screen. So my projector also had this gamma shading applied for edge to edge grayscale/white balance correction.

I am checking to see if this shading tool is available for third party calibrators. The raw gamma shading adjustments are available under the service menu, but it sounds like the new tool makes it easier to adjust for grayscale uniformity issues.

If anyone knows the current HS-51/60 software version off the top of their head, please post it. My software reads:

ROM 01.02/11.03
SC ROM 01.02
IP Rom 01.02

I'll be sure to follow up as I get more info.

I am happy with the repair done on the HS-51.

I'd like to add a follow up.

This repair expierence has driven home one point for me. It's the issue of the posted calibration settings many of us contribute and their real value on other projectors.

It's become clear to me LCD projectors can have a vast range of proper calibrations. I assume this is due to the inherently different specs of the RGB LCD panels from one projector to another. These RGB LCD panels can have very slight differences in saturation and color which cause one projector to have very different calibration settings from another.

I intend to revisit all of my old calibration experiments and see how they need to be tweaked for my repaired projector. I have my old and new factory LOW, MID & HI color temps to compare. It will be interesting to see if my alternate calibrations dial in along similar offsets to my old/new factory color temp settings.

Anyway... When posting alternate RGB Bias/Gain calibration settings, it's probably important to reference your factory LOW, MID & HI color temp settings.

I found an new Service Menu tweak worth looking into.

Once you are in the FACTORY service mode, go to the bottom menu below W/B, then go into DISPLAY ENGINE. Look for...

04 DE/UF SW = 1 try changing it to 0.

This controls the GAMMA shading section inf the Service menu, 1 = ON, 0 = OFF.

When you put up full field grayscale test patterns, and you go from 0 to 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90 & 100, do any of the patterns appear to be a little more red on one side/corner and blue on the opposite side/corner? If yes, try watching one of the test patterns while changing 04 DE/UF SW to 0. You will see the side to side red/blue bias disappear.

It has come to my attention Sony does not do a perfect job of programming the GAMMA shading section in the factory service menu. My projector was recently repaired, and while it was restored to it's previous good condition, the GAMMA shading was back to normal but still not perfect. I attempted to pick the most offending luminance level in the GAMMA menu and began writing down the settings while I remapped everything to 0-0-0. I found when I had remapped all 273 point adjustments, all of the red/blue bias error went away. Unfortunately, the setting changes did not stick as they somehow switched back to their previously programed value as I continued to work with the projector.

Hmmm, I thought. Maybe there is a way to turn this GAMMA shaping section off. So I began looking. I found it. Line item #4 of the DISPLAY ENGINE factory menu controls the GAMMA shaping ON/OFF condition.

I'm gonna see if there is a way to SAVE changes within the GAMMA shaping menu, since the SAVE option in the service menu did not work.

Some folks have said their projector also exhibits a red/blue bias. Give this tweak a try and post your results.

I found an new Service Menu tweak worth looking into.
(...)
Some folks have said their projector also exhibits a red/blue bias. Give this tweak a try and post your results.

Wow, great findings Bytehoven!

If only we knew what all those service menu items are for! :rolleyes:

About you not being able to save the changes to the gamma menu, that's strange... There were some people here that have tweaked the shading values and apparently were able to keep those changes, or am I wrong about this? I haven't yet tried it myself, I must say...

Dave.

I'm at 1000 hours. Will replacing it now give me a better quality picture? I have a spare and would like to have the best pic possible for Sunday. Anyone have any thoughts on if I should bother?

Mike

About you not being able to save the changes to the gamma menu, that's strange... There were some people here that have tweaked the shading values and apparently were able to keep those changes, or am I wrong about this?

Dave.

The only thing I think might have caused it, I was not feeding the projector any input signal as the OPPO was turned off. When I turned the OPPO on to run through some AVIA test patterns, I noticed the grayscale error was back and when I checked the GAMMA menu, all of the changes I had made were gone.

I did routinely SAVE my progress using the SAVE function which is part of the service menu and each time it reported COMPLETE.

I have not seen a detailed explanation of all of the service menu items, and even the service manual is lacking in this area. It might be worth checking to see if any new manuals have come out since last spring. Some of the menu items are familiar in their apparent function, but too many are criptic without any decoder ring to help. :p

The only thing I think might have caused it, I was not feeding the projector any input signal as the OPPO was turned off. When I turned the OPPO on to run through some AVIA test patterns, I noticed the grayscale error was back and when I checked the GAMMA menu, all of the changes I had made were gone.

I did routinely SAVE my progress using the SAVE function which is part of the service menu and each time it reported COMPLETE.
Could these settings be input dependent? I wouldn't expect them to be, but I didn't expect that the W/B settings would be either and they are. If I remember right, the HS51 stores different W/B settings for Input A and HDMI/Component input.

Greetings All,

Just a heads up. I received my HS51A review unit a couple of days ago. Tonight will be my first chance to do serious viewing. I hope to post the finished review next weekend - not this one - Superbowl).

As I have a BenQ PE7700 (with the new firmware) here, and Optoma just emailed me that they are shipping me an HD72 for review today, I should also have comments on how the Sony compares to both of these, as well as my own, significantly more expensive BenQ 8720. Some of those comments will be in the review, but I may put out a comparison between the HS51A, the Optoma, the BenQ 7700 and the Panny 900u as a separate comparison review shortly thereafter.

My initial impression of the HS51A is mixed, but then, I only viewed it on a couple of things for about 40 minutes. It's certainly no match for my BenQ which was what I was watching immediately before. It will be more interesting to see how it does compared to the less expensive projectors. (unfortunately, I won't have the Panasonic 900u here to compare those two directly).

If I can, I'll have the HS51 review up by next Thursday, but am pretty certain it will be posted on my site by next Sunday night. This link isn't active yet, but when the article posts, this link will take you there:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/manufacturers/Sony/HS51A/index.asp

BTW, I never have worked with the older HS50 or HS51, so I won't be able to reference improvements, etc.

Also, for you tweakers out there. My reviews are geared for "typical" users, - non-tweakers, people who just want to buy a good projector in their budget, and likely will never calibrate anything. For that reason, I don't play with service menus. I do have calibration gear - Avia Pro and Optic One meter, but use them primarily to verify what I see, and not to do full calibrations.

Thanks, and good hunting. -art

How can you do projector reviews and not full calibrations? That is like reviewing cars without driving them isn't it?

My initial impression of the HS51A is mixed, but then, I only viewed it on a couple of things for about 40 minutes. It's certainly no match for my BenQ which was what I was watching immediately before.

I love this. Not reviewed or calibrated yet but BenQ is better by a large margin. You guys make me not believe anything I read anymore. :)

Presenter...

I think I would have to agree with the others. Out of the box, unadjusted performance comparisons have little value on AVS. You no doubt are aware most of us are woven of a different fabric, and seek to push the capabilities of a product in the context of how far we can push other products.

In an ideal world, the manufacturers efforts to provide a proper 6500k or even 7500K white balance would translate to the owners potential out of the box positive experience. Some manufactures do a better job than others, and maybe this what you would seek to demonstrate thru your efforts. However, we're not wired that way and even the best factory efforts are usualy outperformed once a projector has been digested and it's idiosyncracies discovered and managed.

You are certainly welcome to present your out of the box findings and declare a winner on such limited criteria. However, if you take the time to go a few steps further and investigate how each product can be taken to the next level of performance via some tweaks, your efforts will find a more supportive audience at AVS.

Good luck and don't be discouraged. Just understand we like to eat raw meat rather than fancy French pastries.

:D

I love this. Not reviewed or calibrated yet but BenQ is better by a large margin. You guys make me not believe anything I read anymore. :)

Nope, not reviewed or calibrated. I just watched the same material consecutively from one to the other projector. I don't need to calibrate them to draw some conclusions, for example the sharpness of the image.

No doubt the HS51A's image improves with calibration. They all do. But most buyers won't ever calibrate their projectors. Out of the box is what they watch, maybe change occasionally from one preset to another. For those of you who will calibrate, tweak or whatever, I'll bet you still find some useful info in the review.

Since a few of you are shocked, here's my basic explanation. I'm not feeling defensive, just explaining.

I review for the typical buyer, not the tweaker. And a great many of them visit the forum, and various review sites.

If a buyer isn't going to calibrate their projector, and they are selecting between two projectors, let's assume one has near perfect color out of the box, the other is off and does lousy fleshtones, etc. When you get done calibrating both, they should be almost identical in color handling, but or the masses, they want the one that works best out-of-box. If the one with the lousy out of box color costs $100 less, its probably a better value for anyone planning to calibrate, but for the rest...

Measuring contrast ratio is of little use to a person who won't fully darken their room for their normal viewing. And they won't necessarily want to run their projector in dimmest best mode, if they have a little ambient light, and need the extra lumens of a "Standard" or "Family Room" setting.

I don't know what percentage of people spending less than $5K on a projector have it properly calibrated, but if I had to guess - 1 - 3%.... I know, that when I worked for an online dealer, the sales people there almost always pitched the AVIA disk, with a simple - "hey, takes less than an hour for a novice, its not technical." I'm sure less than 5% of the buyers bought them. And that's with the dealer actively pitching it. Selling even a $39 calibration disk makes selling premium cables look simple.

I think the forum is the perfect place for people who really want to tweak their system to the maximum, should go for all the info. But there are plenty of visitors who won't ever tweak anything. I hear from many who visit my site, (including those who come from forums) that they find our reviews most useful. Also that the reviews are not too technical for them. Most, I guess are bewildered by all the talk of service menus, etc. And again, almost none plan to have a major calibration done. They are more interested in what screen will work with their room conditions, and other practical matters.

Hope some of you find this forgivable. -art

Hey, I'm having fun.

Presenter...

I think I would have to agree with the others. Out of the box, unadjusted performance comparisons have little value on AVS. You no doubt are aware most of us are woven of a different fabric, and seek to push the capabilities of a product in the context of how far we can push other products.

You are certainly welcome to present your out of the box findings and declare a winner on such limited criteria. However, if you take the time to go a few steps further and investigate how each product can be taken to the next level of performance via some tweaks, your efforts will find a more supportive audience at AVS.

Good luck and don't be discouraged. Just understand we like to eat raw meat rather than fancy French pastries.

:D

Thanks for the understanding in part. As I just put in the previous post (before I saw your comment), I fully understand that my reviews have limited value to the hard core. (I used to be a big a tweaker as any, in my audiophile days - my tube preamps and amps were all heavily modified, etc, even did my own sodering, and did my own matching and Q/C ing of tubes - good old 12AX7's and KT88's)

But there are many who find the forum and hope to just get some good info before buying but won't every be a regular here, we all help them when they ask.

Hey look at any thread's page views, and then consider how many people actually post. This thread alone: Total posts 5178, total views: 489785. That's almost 1000 reads, per post. Must be some other people hitting this thread besides the few hundred who make up most of the posts.

Whatcha think? -art

PS. I'm used to this. I don't normally get involved in a thread until I have seen a projector. I'm semi-active on close to a dozen threads, like the Panny 900u, the BenQ 7700 and 8720, the Sanyo Z4, Epson 800, Optoma H78DC3, and Marantz 12S4 etc.

First time I mention the way I look at things, I get the same basic response. I'm getting good at these explanations.

I love this place! -a

Basically your the online equivalent to Home Theater magazine than I guess. The "it looks pretty but not as pretty as this" kind of review with nothing to back up the subjective babble. I guess that works for mainstream people, but usually not AVS'ers. I would also think that the "average" consumer doesn't buy projectors anyways. That makes me think that the 1-3% guess is probably way under the actual for calibration. Joe Sixpack doesn't buy these types of projectors. I have never met one that does. NEVER.

I understand your points on just comparing visually based on out of the box but it still seems wasteful to me. It is a decent starting point but means little to nothing in the long run. Basically you could review something and make the "average" buyer go out and get it and then they could get into this stuff and do some calibrating or have it calibrated only to find out that their new toy that YOU recommended sucks compared to most the other stuff at that price point or PJs that cost even less! That could come back to bite you. Just something to think about. There is nothing wrong with commenting on the performance of a product right out of the box, but I think you are doing a disservice to leave it at that. Frankly, it is lazy. The end consumer has the right to know what that PJ has the potential to deliver and how it stacks up to its competitors. Especially if you are reviewing $3K and up PJs, sorry the "average" consumer isn't spending that type of dough on PJs. I can't believe that Marantz would have supported this type of reviewing with their S4. That is a travesty in my opinion.

How can you do projector reviews and not full calibrations? That is like reviewing cars without driving them isn't it?

Sorry, can't resist:

No, its like buying a car without test driving it on a race track. Hey, many people (believe it or not) go to a dealer and buy a car without ever test driving it. Not that the 2 minute around the block tells you that much anyway. (That's like evaluating a projector by watching 2 minutes of Shrek2). -art

Basically your the online equivalent to Home Theater magazine than I guess. The "it looks pretty but not as pretty as this" kind of review with nothing to back up the subjective babble. I guess that works for mainstream people, but usually not AVS'ers. I would also think that the "average" consumer doesn't buy projectors anyways. That makes me think that the 1-3% guess is probably way under the actual for calibration. Joe Sixpack doesn't buy these types of projectors. I have never met one that does. NEVER.

.

You are right about Joe Sixpack. No projectors for him. But you are wrong. Most projector buyers are more like "JoeLexus". They have lots of money, do a little research, find a local dealer, and write a big check. The dealer they choose is often the guy who did a friend of theirs. They see their friends system and go "wow" got to have something like that. $20K? no problem. There's a lot more people with money and only interest is in having a great looking home theater. They'll spend more on the furniture and cabinetry, and installation, then the electronics (including the projector).

I don't have good numbers but the market for HT projectors in the US this year, is probably at least 250,000 units, The Sanyo Z4 and Panny 900u alone will probably sell 50,000 pieces between them, (supposedly Panasonic ships 2500+ 900u's a month. They have 4-5 dealers alone that all buy between 100 and 500 projectors a month, plus all the smaller dealers. Then figure in the low end 480p stuff like the InFocus 4805 and its replacement, the Optoma H27...

Let's say Sony plans to sell a mere 5000 HS51 series projectors this year, AVS is the biggest forum (I think), where are they all, if they are all tweakers.

Question for you calibrators out there, a big online reseller of HT projectors moves 500 a month, and Costco supposedly moves over 1000 a month of the InFocus 4805.... How many of you are there, and how many under $3000 selling price projectors do you calibrate a year....?

I'll stick to my 1-3% range (3% of 250,000 units is 7500 being calibrated).

BTW, do those of you who do your own calibration recalibrate after 500 hours, and when you get a new lamp? And do pro calibrators do that for their clients?

Certainly none of these projectors produces the same image at 500 lamp hours as at 50 lamp hours.

What my reviews may help accomplish is having manufacturers learn to actually go to the trouble of producing out of the box units that are within 95% of the maximum potential of the same projector professionally calibrated.

Optoma's H78 and H79 have come out of the box with color balance sloppily leaning significantly to green, meaning noticably off fleshtones. They took definite heat in reviews, and I expect that the new generation will be much better out of the box, relative to the Pj's best possible. I know that's true for BenQ. Their early 8720's settings out of box were lousy. The new version, excellent. They also drastically improved the PE7700, which was originally considered great overall, but out of the box color was definitely inferior to the much newer Panny 900u....

If the manufacturers agreed with you, that almost everyone tweaks, they wouldn't have to bother maximizing out of the box performance. And if all the reviewers calibrated the projectors before looking at them, then their reviews would be almost WORTHESS to anyone not getting a serious calibration done.

Believe me there are a lot more of "them JoeLexus buyers" than there are typical AVSforum posters. I just found market research from Quixel, that says that for Q2 and Q3 (2005) combined the US HT front projector market did over $300 Million. Even if the average selling price was $3000 (hardly, probably more like $1700), that would be 100,000 units in 6 months, and of course Q4 is the REALLY Big quarter for projectors. So my 250K unit number has to be very low for 2006. 500,000 is more likely.

The CEA (CES show) published unit numbers for front 16:9 HT projectors for 2004 (newest I could find in a quick search). Global sales in units according to them for 2004: 530,000 units, and according to another source unit sales (but US only were up 44% last year over the year before.... so about 800,000 units world wide last year. That's the math.

If half of the 250,000 US, HT Pj buyers this year are hard core (tweaker) buyers, then the Sony thread would probably have a lot more than 10 posts or so a day! (half of which today, have been debating the value of non-calibrated reviews).

Somebody ask AVIA how many copies of the regular AVIA, and the AVIA Pro software they have sold.... a couple thousand? add in the rest of the calibration software, and disks.... 1 - 3 %...

Ahhh, I love the math...

Sorry, can't resist:

No, its like buying a car without test driving it on a race track. Hey, many people (believe it or not) go to a dealer and buy a car without ever test driving it. Not that the 2 minute around the block tells you that much anyway. (That's like evaluating a projector by watching 2 minutes of Shrek2). -art

Presenter, you cannot possibly give a fair and unbiased review of these projectors with out calibrating for the environment you are using them in. As any one here on AVS will tell you, the room has a big impact on things like "perceived contrast", "colour reproduction" etc etc. Any of these PJ's may or may not look fantastic/crap in your HT Room but take them to someones else's HT Room and the reverse could be true.

Out of the box PJ's are given a very compromised calibration or "jack of all Trades, master of none" calibration. Even if you just fire up a DVD with the THX Optimizer and spend 10 mins making sure each PJ is giving you fairly accurate grayscale and colour it will make your review much more meaningful.

My initial impression of the HS51A is mixed, but then, I only viewed it on a couple of things for about 40 minutes. It's certainly no match for my BenQ which was what I was watching immediately before.


And of course "your" BenQ has never been adjusted in any way to look better either....


Your entire review process is pretty much a joke! And it really sounds like you are only trying to promote your website here, and nothing else.

And of course "your" BenQ has never been adjusted in any way to look better either....


Your entire review process is pretty much a joke! And it really sounds like you are only trying to promote your website here, and nothing else.


Well I for one will never take a review from you seriously.

Man, you should start reviewing computers too!!!

HAHA

(Well I didn't like Computer A here at $3000.00 becuase it couldn't play my Barbie Extreme Edition. "but little did you know all you had to do was update your video drivers AKA a little tweaking" and it would then have been the best computer you have ever used.) :D

If your going to do what you do...

You need a out of the box impressions section, and I tooka little time to calibrate section.

Also you talk about the average Joe... WTF they don't go to your site for a review. They go to dell.com, they go to there bestbuy. They may ever type in a google search for projector. But Im sure they rarely hit your site. I've been doing this for a long time, and untill you posted I have never been to your site before.

-SOWK

A high profile responsible reviewer never paint a product until final judgement if bias is not a shade of the color. After every thing is said and done, no reviewer will come back and say sorry I was wrong with my initial impression. We will see what your going to say about this unit but I am certain that it won't be any different than what has already been said.

Also you talk about the average Joe... WTF they don't go to your site for a review. They go to dell.com, they go to there bestbuy. They may ever type in a google search for projector. But Im sure they rarely hit your site. I've been doing this for a long time, and untill you posted I have never been to your site before.

-SOWK

Gee, you've never been to my site, and you are an average joe, one who hangs around the forum, and never tweaks your projector?

Get serious. You are the classic forum person, and as far from JoeLexus as I can imagine.

BTW average traffic to our site is a modest 1000 unique visitors a day, the avsforum sends more traffic to my site than any other forum, and that accounts for about 3-4% of my site's traffic.

Whatever.

BTW, when I refer to out-of the box, I do allow for minor adjustments, when I reviewed the H78 for example with it's greenish caste, I pointed that out, and then took out a plain old Avia disk, to see if I could remove the problem without "hiring a professional calibrator" and reported that the picture was much improved, etc. I'm not inflexible, but a full calibration with Avia Pro and a light meter is meaningless to 97+ percent of buyers.

Someone else mentioned room. That was my point. If I calibrated a projector and viewed it in a perfect (dark wall, no ambient light) environment, that would only provide useful info for people who do the same... Also I have a Firehawk and now a Carada 1.4. Both provide different results... In a perfect world every projector would have to be tested on a half dozen screens with walls of 4 or 5 different density's of color/gray (including white walls and black), and of course fully calibrated for each input device. Besides that, we'd all need the same cables.

That's why you guys often disagree with each other.

Ahh well, read the review or not, if you already have the projector and have calibrated , you don't need to anyway, but for the newbie, they just might like the photo's of the control panel, the input panel, and the remote, as well as one person's opinion of what the projectors strengths and weaknesses are. -a

I've demoed both the 7700 and HS51 in home. The 7700 will impress upon first viewing. Nice and bright, vivid colors and pretty darn good out of box. Turn on the HS51 after viewing the 7700 and you might walk away underwhelmed with the HS51 but......if you do some minor tweaks (that even j6p does to their rear projection tv as consumers become more educated which is what you are not doing Art) and you watch the hs51 for a while becoming accustomed to the lower light output you realize that the Sony is much smoother and has very little digital noise(the 7700 has a lot). Black levels are better and has no rainbows. Geez the HS51 is better for me? Whadaya know. Some may even refer the 7700 too; like the SDE sensative or needing a light cannon etc. but let them decide.

Seems like TPV agrees too. BTW you are not educating the consumer because you do not qualify or articulate your findings. Basically, you frustrate me entirely as the consumer is not better capable to make an educated decision which is an injustice IMHO.

Greetings All,

Just a heads up. -art


Art...

I think you owe it to the forum to explain your relationship to BenQ. I understand you have a very close relationship with a number of BenQ people and this relationship might suggest your efforts here are simply to PUSH the BenQ product.

Will you be disclosing your manufacturer relationships within your offical review?

I've demoed both the 7700 and HS51 in home. The 7700 will impress upon first viewing. Nice and bright, vivid colors and pretty darn good out of box. Turn on the HS51 after viewing the 7700 and you might walk away underwhelmed with the HS51 but......if you do some minor tweaks (that even j6p does to their rear projection tv as consumers become more educated which is what you are not doing Art) and you watch the hs51 for a while becoming accustomed to the lower light output you realize that the Sony is much smoother and has very little digital noise(the 7700 has a lot). Black levels are better and has no rainbows. Geez the HS51 is better for me? Whadaya know. Some may even refer the 7700 too; like the SDE sensative or needing a light cannon etc. but let them decide.
Seems like TPV agrees too. BTW you are not educating the consumer because you do not qualify or articulate your findings. Basically, you frustrate me entirely as the consumer is not better capable to make an educated decision which is an injustice IMHO.

All good points. I have the newest firmware version of the PE7700 here, so I will be viewing at some point, the HS51A side by side against the PE7700 (and also the Optoma HD72 which arrived about an hour ago). (DVI/HDMI from an OPPO using A Gefen 1x2 HDMI box), also D-VHS with a component splitter. BTW, old 7700 firmware, or new (which started shipping 5 weeks ago), and do you have a HS51 or HS51A? I'm just curious?)

My reviews BTW, do not state, "this is the best projector, period... Much is spent pointing out the same points you are making, SDE, rainbows, brightness, etc. and pointing out that these are often tradeoffs between machines. I try to provide guidance. The fact that you like the HS51 over the 7700 is great and you state your valid reasons. You point out, that for others, SDE or brightness may be an issue and they might prefer the 7700.. That is exactly the types of things I write about.


I find the side by side very useful, but also, agree with you, that longer term viewing of a projector (by itself) reveals much that doing the side by sides doesn't work for. (ie. slight differences in brightness). Issues like SDE and rainbow effect are very important, and I discuss what I find to be acceptable seating distance differences, ie. the Panny with it's "smooth screen" technology allows one to sit about the same distance from a given screen size as a typical DLP projector. Sanyo's Z4 definitely has more visible pixels and therefore requires sitting further back. (A big issue for those who like to sit closer for more immersion.)

BTW, I do recommend that people at least get a disk like AVIA, or use the brightness contrast setup on the THX Star Wars disk II. But recommending that, doesn't mean people actually will do it.

OK, people you are on your own, and can go back to technical aspects, I likely won't be back on this thread until I am done working with the HS51A and close to posting, or after I post, so you can continue to kick around your objections, but - hey, why not wait until the review is posted, then you can tear me, and my opinions apart all over again. art

Art...

I think you owe it to the forum to explain your relationship to BenQ. I understand you have a very close relationship with a number of BenQ people and this relationship might suggest your efforts here are simply to PUSH the BenQ product.

Will you be disclosing your manufacturer relationships within your offical review?

No, as I have no special ties with BenQ any different with any other projector brand, other than the fact that I now own a PE8720 (no it was not free!)


OK, here goes. First, I have been in the projector industry since before the first LCD projectors dropped below 30 pounds (1993). I owned a dealership "presenting solutions" until around Nov. 2001. I continued to work for dealers until this past December. When I went "full time" Projector Reviews.

With almost 30 years in the AV industry, and 19 years uninterupted, I have built up relationships with a huge number of people in the industry. And many move around.

I also have been attending almost every CEDIA CES and INFOCOMM, and EHX (west coast) show, as well as this year adding NSCA and NAB (haven't been to either in a few years).
I would say that companies over the years that I have made close contacts with many companys(upper management), however, as people move around, the strengths of my contacts at a give company goes up and down.



Those projector companies (I have good contacts with other companies, such as screen manufacturers, cable companies etc.) that I would consider I have good connections with at some point or another over the last few years include:

Epson (which BTW I worked for them from '82 - '86)
InFocus
NEC
Optoma
BenQ
Sony
Toshiba
Marantz
Panasonic
Sanyo

I would add to that list, contacts I have made in the last year that include
SIM2
DWIN
Texas Instruments
JVC

I could go on and on.

However I will address your question about BenQ specifically.

Besides the company I worked for being a BenQ dealer, my oldest contact there (2 years) left to start up Elite Screens. Their Dir of Sales I have known since he called on us years ago for Viewsonic. My favorite sales rep from BenQ left there a year ago and is now the Dir Sales at Optoma.

Until I did my first review on the pre-production 8720 a few months ago, the Dir Sales was my only significant contact although, I also knew slightly one of their product managers. (I probably know at least one product manager at ten different major projector manufacturers). (And I'll bet just about every reviewer in the industry does too.)

However, after my original review where I pointed out that their out of box settings (Cinema and Home Theater mode) were so off that the projector was not viable without a full professionally done calibration, and that while the unit was exceptionally sharp, they would have one difficult time getting the 8270 to sell at its price point. I was contacted by their engineering staff almost immediately. This resulted in a lot of back and forth, including conference calls with their engineers in Taiwan. I'd like to think that my feedback was mostly responsible for the completely reworked color and gamma tables in the production units they started shipping at the very end of December. I recently re-reviewed the projector based on the unit they gave me. (It was an unopened box, literally taken from a pile of them in their warehouse.)

This time around the projector performed beautifully. And as I like to sit close to my 128" firehawk, I decided to go with the 8720 for my home theater. I wasn't happy spending the extra money over the Optoma H78DC3, but for me, it was the choice that would keep me happy. And I love the 8720. BTW I did do a full calibration on it, and it required virtually no adjustments at all (ie. with Avia Pro, on the color balance, at 30 IRE and 80 IRE, the out of box measurement white point actually touches the target (not dead on) if you use the CIE chart. Gamma came in at under 2.3, and the color temp in Cinema was 64xx (don't recall exactly any more). BTW you can find not dissimilar out-of-box measurements on the 8720 thread by at least one person with the unit and the new firmware.

Two weeks later (after CES), I was invited back up to BenQ, by one of the engineers from Taiwan who was in town. Met a whole bunch of their engineering staff and got a free lunch at PF Changs out of the deal. So I now know a lot of people there. BenQ US hq is about 30 minutes from me, in Irvine CA. I don't sell my soul for an egg roll at PF Changs. At the time they said they incorporated similar changes to the firmware in the PE7700, and asked if I would re-review it. I agreed. (My biggest problem is getting projectors to review). BenQ BTW seems be very good at having units for reviewers. With many companies most reviewers wait months. (How many times have you seen a review of a projector show up in a print publication after it has already been discontinued?)

BenQ BTW like other manufacturers, advertises on my site, but is a very small advertiser. If I based my reviews on the amount spent on advertising I'd have to trash BenQ, Sony and Marantz among others.

Of course everyone but Consumer Reports takes advertising, so if you buy into the "well they advertise on your site or magazine so you are biased" and therefore eliminate all "commercial reviews" of projectors but theirs, then you guys would all have to trash your Sony's for the Epson, which Consumer Reports rated Best. And if you also bought into that, then the forums would be worthless for advice for one projector over another, because everyone is biased toward the one they own (or sell, since many of you are dealers or have buddies who are.)

Bottom line. My bias toward the PE8720, is because of everything I have seen - so far, at its price or less, its the best projector out there for me. If I was richer, I might have the Sony VW100 (but with my heavy use (I average close to 40 hours a week of on time.) I can't afford the lamps. Or if I was really rich, it would probably be the SIM2 C3X (or actually a 1080p version whenever that comes out).

Have fun out there. Be back online in about 10 days or so. -art

PS it's a good thing I type at around 60 wpm.

I'm at 1000 hours. Will replacing it now give me a better quality picture? I have a spare and would like to have the best pic possible for Sunday. Anyone have any thoughts on if I should bother?

Mike

If you replace the lamp you will probably have a brighter picture. As far as best pic, you may have to re-tweak your settings to get things looking good again. As I understand it, a lamp will go through some significant changes during the first 100 hours or so, then it is supposed to settle down. Then it will slowly dim over it's remaining life. At least this is what I understand to be the general consensus from various AVSforum members. If you are going to be in a lights-on situation with lots of people, try putting the lamp on high mode, and turning the auto iris off (fully open). This will give you the most light output, but your contrast will suffer. But hey, if you have lights on in the room, your contrast will be lousy anyways!

Friar

Presenter--

I look forward to your review. I will be deciding whether or not to buy this machine in the next week.

Even with the latest FW, the 8720 has bad macro blocking - I work in the AV industry part time these days and I'll sell a Yamaha "mustang chip" 530 DLP PJ over the BenQ 8720 to discerning customers, even if they are happy to spend more on the PJ they just luv the Yammy's PQ & bright image.

If you replace the lamp you will probably have a brighter picture. As far as best pic, you may have to re-tweak your settings to get things looking good again. As I understand it, a lamp will go through some significant changes during the first 100 hours or so, then it is supposed to settle down. Then it will slowly dim over it's remaining life. At least this is what I understand to be the general consensus from various AVSforum members. If you are going to be in a lights-on situation with lots of people, try putting the lamp on high mode, and turning the auto iris off (fully open). This will give you the most light output, but your contrast will suffer. But hey, if you have lights on in the room, your contrast will be lousy anyways!

Friar
Thanks Friar
I had heard the same thing about the 100 hour break in. After tweaking forever I finally have the picture I want.
Think I'll just take your advice on lamp mode and auto iris.

Hi Kris, I've just bought a HS60 (HS51A) and I believe you use a ND filter with your HS51. I'm also projecting a small image and want to fit a ND2 filter. Do you know what the thread size is for the lens, assuming your using a screw in type ?
Thanks in advance, Rob. :)

Hello,

I have a new 51A.

I have been told

A) the 50/51A internal scaler is not that good and you *need* something better

B) the 50/51A internal scaler is plenty good and will do fine

I have a 3 year old DVD player running component into the 51A and get a decent and acceptable image.

Does anyone have any info on the specifics of the internal scaler? any comparisons to the Faroudja DCDi scaler?

I am thinking about a DVD player which comes with the DCDi chip.

How would I interface the DVD-51A to get the maximum benefit from the 2 units? I would have component/DVI on the player and component/HDMI on the 51A. I already have all the high-quality cabling to configure any combination.

I posted a similar but less specific query here on the forums a few days ago but cannot find the post, I apologize if this seems like a duplicate post.

Thanks for any advice/tips.

M./

I recommend the OPPO 971H DVD player sending a 720p signal from it's DVI output. The player is cheap at $200 direct from OPPO and can be bought for less via some other sources.

If you end up having another DVI/HDMI source like a cable HD tuner, get a DVI or HDMI switcher. I have the Gefen DVI 2x1 which also switches coax/optical digital audio 2x1.

Good luck with your new projector.

Or wait to see how the Oppo 970 HDMI stacks up.

I have found the HS-51 deinterlacer to be inferior to the DCDi. I was able to make the following tests and I will list the from best to worst performance on the HQV bechmark DVD.

OPPO 720p DVI
OPPO 540p DVI
OPPO 480p DVI
XP-30 480p component
RP-91 480i component
OPPO 1080i DVI

As I went from OPPO 720p to 480p via DVI , the only thing that changed was the appearance of resolution reduction. However, both the OPPO 1080i DVI and RP-91 480i DVI showed the HS-51 deinterlacer was not up to the challenge. The OPPO 1080i also forced the HS-51 to BOB and scale which cause the failure of some more HQV tests.

This leads me to believe the OPPO 971H would out perform a future OPPO 480i HDMI player on the HS-51 even if was an excellent 480i HDMI signal. But this is just an educated guess, we'll see.

I know this issue has been beat to death, but I just want confirmation. Can anyone that has sent their HS51 in for the firmware update confirm for me that the fix simply stretches the image to fill the entire panel, but the outside %n of the actual image is still cropped off?

Thanks,
Derek

I know this issue has been beat to death, but I just want confirmation. Can anyone that has sent their HS51 in for the firmware update confirm for me that the fix simply stretches the image to fill the entire panel, but the outside %n of the actual image is still cropped off?
I can confirm it. I sent mine for the fix. Before, about 2-3% masked by black border. After, about 2-3% overscan so image is scaled up and cropped.

Hi guys,

I changed my lamp a couple weeks ago and have been trying to reset the timer ever since. No matter what I do, it does not reset. For those of you that have accomplished this, what type of cadence did you use when you did the reset, <,>, enter? Holding the buttons a little longer, quickly pressing them in succession? I hear a click when I press "reset", but I go through the sequence to no avail. Thanks.

I changed my lamp a couple weeks ago and have been trying to reset the timer ever since. No matter what I do, it does not reset. For those of you that have accomplished this, what type of cadence did you use when you did the reset, <,>, enter? Holding the buttons a little longer, quickly pressing them in succession? I hear a click when I press "reset", but I go through the sequence to no avail. Thanks.
I had problems as well. Turn off the power and wait until the LED turns red which means standby mode. Point the remote directly at the front of the projector and push the buttons firmly but don't hold them down. I think the manual says something about completing the sequence in under 5 seconds. Finally worked for me.

WOW... I now have my Picture Quality Just outstanding on my Sony HS-51.

Settings:

Source = Bravo D2 720P (DVI)
Converter = DVI to VGA
Input = VGA

Brightness = 40
Contrast = 85
Lamp = Low
Iris = Auto
Color = User 1 (RG = 12 , GG = 0, BG = -17 / RB = -5, GB = 0, BB = 0)
Gama = none
Black Enhancment = Off

I lose a little grey scale tracking about 5% - but the picture quality, and the three dimentionality of the picture more then makes up for it. plus now the colors pop like no other.

Someone try it and let me know what you think!

-SOWK


Sowk, could you see how your User1 settings are from service menu ?

bye
Emanuele

WOW... I now have my Picture Quality Just outstanding on my Sony HS-51.

Settings:

Source = Bravo D2 720P (DVI)
Converter = DVI to VGA
Input = VGA

Brightness = 40
Contrast = 85
Lamp = Low
Iris = Auto
Color = User 1 (RG = 12 , GG = 0, BG = -17 / RB = -5, GB = 0, BB = 0)
Gama = none
Black Enhancment = Off

I lose a little grey scale tracking about 5% - but the picture quality, and the three dimentionality of the picture more then makes up for it. plus now the colors pop like no other.

Someone try it and let me know what you think!

-SOWK


Sowk, could you see how your User1 settings are from service menu ?

bye
Emanuele

Hi all,
I've completed an excel table with all HS51 calibrated settings I have collected from forum post.
Please check it, if there's some mistake or some additional tweak.

Also, may I ask which kind of connection are you using ?
Anybody has a calibrated settings with VGA Input (the one I use) ?

I hope this spreadsheet could be useful for every Sony HS50 possessor.

bye
Emanuele

Very Nice.

Thanks for the effort.

Hi all,
I've completed an excel table with all HS51 calibrated settings I have collected from forum post.
Please check it, if there's some mistake or some additional tweak.

Also, may I ask which kind of connection are you using ?
Anybody has a calibrated settings with VGA Input (the one I use) ?

I hope this spreadsheet could be useful for every Sony HS50 possessor.

bye
Emanuele
Nice spreadsheet! Thanks!

Hi all,
I've completed an excel table with all HS51 calibrated settings I have collected from forum post.
Please check it, if there's some mistake or some additional tweak.

Also, may I ask which kind of connection are you using ?
Anybody has a calibrated settings with VGA Input (the one I use) ?

I hope this spreadsheet could be useful for every Sony HS50 possessor.

bye
Emanuele
can't open the spreadsheet. Help Please?

I can't even access the link.

Pip

Same for me.

Hi all,
I've completed an excel table with all HS51 calibrated settings I have collected from forum post.
Please check it, if there's some mistake or some additional tweak.

Also, may I ask which kind of connection are you using ?
Anybody has a calibrated settings with VGA Input (the one I use) ?

I hope this spreadsheet could be useful for every Sony HS50 possessor.

bye
Emanuele

I use sharpness at min. I also am using Bytehovens latest tweak with Devise Driver gamma setting at 0 and mostly the same grayscales he posted for 6500k. They work well for me with the exception of blue which I needed to bump up a bit. I think his screen pushes blue. Short of actual ISF calibration I pleased with the results.

Byte thanks for posting #'s.

Sorry for the problem, but I access the attacched zip file without any issue, and spreadsheet was done with Excel 2003.
So could be an issue with old Office version or anything else, I don't know.

bye
Emanuele

I use sharpness at min. I also am using Bytehovens latest tweak with Devise Driver gamma setting at 0 and mostly the same grayscales he posted for 6500k. They work well for me with the exception of blue which I needed to bump up a bit. I think his screen pushes blue. Short of actual ISF calibration I pleased with the results.

Byte thanks for posting #'s.

Mimason...

The Progressive CA-6X takes a reading right off the projector and I did not use any screen offsets.

Did you find the 7500K was a little too blue and you ended up with a setting somewhere between the 6500k & 7500k?

Right Click and Save as to D/L the File..

Mimason...

The Progressive CA-6X takes a reading right off the projector and I did not use any screen offsets.


Hi Bytehoven,

I have seen your 51A settings as listed in the excel file. The last posted seemed to be in January. Are your user settings still the same even though you have been doing the greyscale cals?

Are your settings based on a dark room? medium? or bright room lighting?


I would like to try turning off the gamma setting in the factory menu as per your previous post and then use your settings and see if I get real close to where I need to be. At this point I really only have a bit of an issue with certain greys having a red cast on B&W movies. I can actually live with it but if I can spend a bit of time and get it better I will.

What are your current recommendations for tweaking the 51A using just the gamma 0 setting and the controls available to the user (i.e not getting into the service or factory menus).

As before I am trying to avoid getting into a maxi calibration headspace as I tend to go too far with those things and have a finite amount of time for working with my home theater.

Thanks for the info you have posted, it has been very helpful.

M./

Hi Bytehoven, I have seen your 51A settings as listed in the excel file. M./

Please note I have the HS-51 not the 51A, atleast not yet. ;)

I have almost a bat cave. My front wall is painted flat black, the side walls and drop ceiling tiles are a dark taupe. The floor is an medium dark emerald green. I would probably call it 3/4 of a bat cave. :D

I hope to be able to contribute some HS-51A calibration recommendations in the next few weeks. For now, I suggest you PM or ask awtryau89 as he has the 51A and has been fiddling with a wide range of calibrations. He did confirm the 51A, like the 51, has the flatest GAMMA track when set to GAMMA 3, although the top and bottom are a little out of whack. GAMMA 2 has a better top and bottom with just a touch of dip in the 30-80 range, which might be the best compromise short of dialing a custom gamma using Image Director.

If you meant the 51 and not the 51A I would 1st establish if turning off the GAMMA shading in the service menu help eliminate and red/blue left/right grayscale errors.

Then I would put up a split 10 step gray scale pattern and try my latest 6500k, 7500k and 9300k color temps. See if any of them look good to you. Personally I prefer the 7500k and it also provide a little extra contrast. I use 9300k when watching sports.

I have maintained my contrast=80, brightness=50, color=50, hue=50, sharpness=off, black=off, gamma=2, auto iris, low lamp.

When I finally get to the 51A, I will try to post offsets that can be used regular color temp USER 1, 2 & 3 menus. I will also post my baseline factory RGB gain/bias settings so folks will have some reference to consider when using the offsets.

If the 51A is a nice regarding screen uniformity as Eric has noted, I will probably leave the service menu Gamma shading ON.

I know I have not fillu answered your question, but I hope this helps a little.

Mimason...

The Progressive CA-6X takes a reading right off the projector and I did not use any screen offsets.

Did you find the 7500K was a little too blue and you ended up with a setting somewhere between the 6500k & 7500k?

At first I only tried the 6500k settings which I felt I needed to tweak the blue to personal taste. Last night I added 7500k and 9500k. I like 7500 a lot and will use this setting. It adds the touch of blue which make whites look great. I have also decided also that I like Gamma 2 better than Gamma 3. Here are my settings:

Contrast 80
Brightness 50
Color 50
Hue 50
Sharpness MIN
Gamma 2 ( I turned gamma setting in factory menu to 0)
Bytehoven 7500k color temp
lamp low
iris auto

I am currently using the component out of a Sony 999ES DVD player. This got rave reviews 3 years ago and was the player to beat in the 1,000 range. I have seen some posts regarding sending a native signal to the Sony, in particular the Oppo DVD player. Can anyone here share their experience switching from a good component out player to all digital. Thanks in advance

My best experience with component DVD players has been the Panasonic RP-82, XP-30, RP-91. I could go back to the excellent Sony DSP-3000 & 7000 players, but they long ago stop supporting the newer DVD formats.

In the case of the 1st (3) units mentioned, the OPPO at DVI 720p, presented all around better performance. I saw benefits in reduced noise, reduced EE/ringing as well as increase in apparent resolution.

While the RP-82 and XP-30 both passed a few more HQV tests, the OPPO came very close, failing only some of the odd cadence tests.

I would also mention I was able to make some image performance comparisons between the OPPO and the Denon 2910/3910 and Pioneer 59avi. Again I felt the OPPO was better on my HS-51, although the gap was much closer than with the other component output players.

As long as you don't suffer MB with FLI23xx based players, the OPPO is a player worth checking out.

My best experience with component DVD players has been the Panasonic RP-82, XP-30, RP-91. I could go back to the excellent Sony DSP-3000 & 7000 players, but they long ago stop supporting the newer DVD formats.

In the case of the 1st (3) units mentioned, the OPPO at DVI 720p, presented all around better performance. I saw benefits in reduced noise, reduced EE/ringing as well as increase in apparent resolution.

While the RP-82 and XP-30 both passed a few more HQV tests, the OPPO came very close, failing only some of the odd cadence tests.

I would also mention I was able to make some image performance comparisons between the OPPO and the Denon 2910/3910 and Pioneer 59avi. Again I felt the OPPO was better on my HS-51, although the gap was much closer than with the other component output players.

As long as you don't suffer MB with FLI23xx based players, the OPPO is a player worth checking out.

At $189 including shipping from Amazon, I guess it's a no brainer to at least try. Hell, I paid triple that for my component cable alone.

Bytehoven
One other thing...I see you upgraded to the 51A. After your calibration was it worth it? You mentioned it only cost $400, not sure how you pulled that off, but would you have paid an extra $800 for the upgrade? For your applicaton that is still the best prjector out there at that price point?

Bytehoven
One other thing...I see you upgraded to the 51A.

The 51A is currently decompressing from it's COLD journey. I should have it running tonight.

I should have it calibrated by the weekend, but I will be sure to post my initial impressions after a simple AVIA tweak.

I would note, my 51A has the silver zoom ring just like the 51, so cosmetically the 51 & 51A look identical.

Can someone tell me if Sony will do an upgrade (firmware&prism) to an out of warranty 51 free? Trying to buy a used unit that has not been updated and it goesback to Dec 04 purchase. Thanks

Bytehoven
One other thing...I see you upgraded to the 51A. After your calibration was it worth it? You mentioned it only cost $400, not sure how you pulled that off, but would you have paid an extra $800 for the upgrade? For your applicaton that is still the best prjector out there at that price point?

My initial impression... While the 51A does present some improvements over the 51, it also comes with some new issues.

I was able to upgrade for only $400, but I don't think I would spend much more to upgrade. Certainly not the $1000 I had originally thought the upgrade might cost.

We are too close to next generation LCD projectors and that $1000 will probably be better spent down the road.

51/50 owners might be best served investing in a good calibration to tame the grayscale tracking issues.

Anyone looking for a new Sony LCD, should probably consider the 51A/60 over the 51/50, unless there is a decent difference in price. If I were buying now, I might seriously consider choosing the 51 over the 51A if the price were right.

Another question - Is it a must to go through the process of upgrade or it all depends on the projector? Any thoughts?

I’ve read (almost) all of the postings in this thread... in a couple of days.. :-)
Yes.. cross-eyed now.. :-)
I’ve especially enjoyed Bytehoven’s postings..

I'm about to fine-tune my HS50 with a brand new lamp..

I've got a Adeo Greyvision Framed Screen 16:9 92", gain 1.0...

Reading all the settings in the excellent "sony HS50 - HS51 - tweak table.xls" gives me an inspiration (thanks!!), but none of you has listed what kind of screen.. white/grey, gain…
f.ex. Bytehoven’s settings may be totally wrong for my screen…

Can you please post your type of screen?

And thanks again, to you all, for an excellent thread!

FrodeN
Oslo, Norway

Another question - Is it a must to go through the process of upgrade or it all depends on the projector? Any thoughts?

There was a debate on the upgrade. Those of us who would be switching between 480/720/1080 sources, liked the update because it made 720p fill the screen.

Those who would only send 720p to the projector, prefered the pre-update projector because it offered 1:1 pixel mapping.

Pick your poison.

Regarding the upgrade being free, you will have to contact Sony customer service.

Can you please post your type of screen?

FrodeN
Oslo, Norway

My settings are taken directly from the projector with the Progressive Labs CA-6X. I did not apply any screen offsets in the software, so they should be correct for a 1.0 matte finish screen.

Your screen might have a color shift, but it would be uniform. For instance the Dalite High Power has a very subtle push to BLUE. Unless you can see a color shift, I would not worry about it. The key thing the calibration provides is more linear tracking of color temp, gamma and SMPTE color.

If you do see a color shift, try to determine if you see it only on dark screens, mid to bright screens or across the board. If only on dark, you can take fown the BIAS setting for the push a click or two. If only on the mids & highs, make the tweak on the GAIN. If you see it pretty equal, make it equal adjustments to both BIAS & GAIN. This adjustment will not be perfect, but it's very close.

Sorry! :(
I might have posted this in the wrong thread..
Re-posting it in the "UNofficial Sony VPL-HS50/1 tweak thread "...

FrodeN

I’ve read (almost) all of the postings in this thread... in a couple of days.. :-)
Yes.. cross-eyed now.. :-)
I’ve especially enjoyed Bytehoven’s postings..

I'm about to fine-tune my HS50 with a brand new lamp..

I've got a Adeo Greyvision Framed Screen 16:9 92", gain 1.0...

Reading all the settings in the excellent "sony HS50 - HS51 - tweak table.xls" gives me an inspiration (thanks!!), but none of you has listed what kind of screen.. white/grey, gain…
f.ex. Bytehoven’s settings may be totally wrong for my screen…

Can you please post your type of screen?

And thanks again, to you all, for an excellent thread!

FrodeN
Oslo, Norway

:)

Thanks Bytehoven!!

I can't see any color shift.. (I think..)
I'll have it in mind..

There was a debate on the upgrade. Those of us who would be switching between 480/720/1080 sources, liked the update because it made 720p fill the screen.

Those who would only send 720p to the projector, prefered the pre-update projector because it offered 1:1 pixel mapping.

Pick your poison.

Regarding the upgrade being free, you will have to contact Sony customer service.

I assume you re referring to HTMI upgrade. How about the prism?

I assume you re referring to HTMI upgrade. How about the prism?


I can't comment on the prism block. I had my prism block replaced because of a failure of one of the LCD panels.

I have not heard of a general prism block replacement except for really poor convergance.

I can't comment on the prism block. I had my prism block replaced because of a failure of one of the LCD panels.

I have not heard of a general prism block replacement except for really poor convergance.
Thanks for the input. :)

Would anyone care to comment on the bulb life in their HS-51.... at 822 hours my first bulb lost about 30% of its brightness -- enough to require replacement.

HS

Would anyone care to comment on the bulb life in their HS-51.... at 822 hours my first bulb lost about 30% of its brightness -- enough to require replacement.

HSMy first lamp lasted 812 hours. It was dim for the last 20-30 hours and then failed with the lamp literally broken. Replacement lamp worked fine.

I have had my HS51 since 12/04. I am on my third bulb, the first lasted 312 hours but was replaced by Sony under warranty. The second lasted 912 hours and dimmed considerably over the last 20-40 hours until the bulb actually broke.

I lost my first lamp at about 500 hours. I'm now trying out a new theory where I set the high altitude setting to on, so that there is more air going through the machine when the lamp is set to low. So far I have about 800 hours on the bulb, and it's still going strong (but I have lamp #3 at home already ... just in case).

Friar

Sony says they'll replace my 822-hour bulb under warranty -- of course I would have to send my projector to a Sony service center for them to put in a new bulb. When I pointed out the stupidity of that, they said they would pay for half the cost of a new bulb if I FAXed the receipt for one along with a copy of my original purchase paperwork for the projector.
My projector came with no paperwork, it was purchased through a Sony employee friend.
Oh well.

HS

UPDATE - found the original packing slip, that should work for "paperwork"... so I'll give it a try.

By the way, to get to the solution mentioned above I had to go through FOUR levels of the call center. Each person was nice, but each level required me to wait on hold for between 20 and 40 minutes. On TWO trys waiting for level four their phone system hung up on me. On the third try I was ready to put out a contract on the phone system provider. Total phone time to get the above "solution" was 3 hours and 6 minutes.

HS

Sony says they'll replace my 822-hour bulb under warranty -- of course I would have to send my projector to a Sony service center for them to put in a new bulb. When I pointed out the stupidity of that, they said they would pay for half the cost of a new bulb if I FAXed the receipt for one along with a copy of my original purchase paperwork for the projector.
My projector came with no paperwork, it was purchased through a Sony employee friend.
Oh well.

HS

Oh no, Sony support is messing with the wrong guy! :)

Give 'em hell Harry. :D

First Lamp lastet 498 hours dimmed so much could not realy see picture then lamp popped. Second lamp died at 465 hours lamp just got so dim could not watch picture. Sony replaced the lamp both times under warranty. I expressed my concern that there might be something else wrong considering that the lamp has gone twice and I havn't even put 1000 hours on the projector. The projector itself will come out of warranty and I'm concerned the next time it failes they will say to bad so sad out of warranty. But i have been assured that if it failes again even out of warranty they will replace the projector.

First Lamp lastet 498 hours dimmed so much could not realy see picture then lamp popped. Second lamp died at 465 hours lamp just got so dim could not watch picture. Sony replaced the lamp both times under warranty. I expressed my concern that there might be something else wrong considering that the lamp has gone twice and I havn't even put 1000 hours on the projector. The projector itself will come out of warranty and I'm concerned the next time it failes they will say to bad so sad out of warranty. But i have been assured that if it failes again even out of warranty they will replace the projector.
When they get that dim, regardless of the hours, you *want* them to pop so as to make your path clear and not be tempted to make do.

hey all, can someone point me to the link/post that has the spreadsheet with all the various tweaked settings? time to start attempting to tweak my HS51...
thx, mo

I just installed a new lamp this week. The first one lasted 2940 hours and then dimmed to about 60% normal brightness for a couple of hours then popped.

I just installed a new lamp this week. The first one lasted 2940 hours and then dimmed to about 60% normal brightness for a couple of hours then popped.
I'd say you got your money's worth!

I'd say you got your money's worth!
Yeah, so was his HAM on or off?

Yeah, so was his HAM on or off?
HAM?

HAM?
High altitude mode. I want to know how to get lamp life like that.

Funny that we are discussing getting the stated lamp life as being incredible.

Funny that we are discussing getting the stated lamp life as being incredible.
Indeed. Most posts about bulbs is about how quickly they dimmed/burnt out.

I used to own a Sony HS51 and an HS 20 before that. I loved both projectors, but there was a slight lack in color quality IMO. I finally switched to a Sanyo PLV-Z4 and am very happy with it. It has a sharper image quality and much higher contrast ratio. Check out the tweak settings, and it looks ever better. Very happy with this purchase...

Getouttatown!

My HS50 is currently @ aprox. 1600 hours with about 50% of it's life being used with HIGH Lamp mode and it has started to dim a bit in the last 100 Hours.

HAM off and low lamp mode. How do you reset the lamp timer?