Mitsubishi WD XX725 owners thread [Text View] - Page 20

SgtPepper133

10-06-07, 04:31 PM

Ok looks like I kind of figured out what was going on. But now I think I have really screwed things up. I was testing things out and there was 12Vs going but not showing up on the Pin 6. So I tested the F9A06 Fuse again but differently this time. Last time I checked it with and Ohm meter.. This time I just checked voltage on both sides. There was 12 on the Left but not on the right. So OK the fuse is blown. Well with no way to get one and all that I bridged it to see what would happen. well it blew something else. Now the TV does nothing. So I guess I am going to look for a whole new powerboard and hope that nothing down the line was taken out. Unless there are any other Ideas? I thank everyone for all the help and time but something else is wrong with this set beyond the Caps I think. Maybe time to ditch it and get a new one.

Has anyone had luck getting Mitsu parts only thru suppliers?

--Greg

JoeC4745

10-06-07, 05:04 PM

Has anyone had luck getting Mitsu parts only thru suppliers?

--Greg

Keep calling until you find one who will. I got lucky on my second call. Just be sure to make it easy for them by supplying the part number.

SgtPepper133

10-06-07, 05:07 PM

Keep calling until you find one who will. I got lucky on my second call. Just be sure to make it easy for them by supplying the part number.

Yeah I have the part number and called a few 1 says they will call me back on Monday with a price will see what they say. I might check in some other areas as well and eventually find one. Thanks!

JoeC4745

10-06-07, 05:09 PM

Ok looks like I kind of figured out what was going on. But now I think I have really screwed things up. I was testing things out and there was 12Vs going but not showing up on the Pin 6. So I tested the F9A06 Fuse again but differently this time.
--Greg

Looks like F9A06 feeds the 10V fan, 12V to the lamp fan and 12V (switched 12V?) to the DM board. If I remember you had these voltages before?

SgtPepper133

10-06-07, 05:14 PM

Looks like F9A06 feeds the 10V fan, 12V to the lamp fan and 12V (switched 12V?) to the DM board. If I remember you had these voltages before?

yeah I actually did. But there was no voltage on the "Right" side of the Fuse..

noplasma

10-06-07, 05:17 PM

I thank everyone for all the help and time but something else is wrong with this set beyond the Caps I think. Maybe time to ditch it and get a new one.

Bummer. I still think this could all be caused by those bad 1000 uf caps. This is a good article: (pg 5 talks about swollen caps)

http://focus.ti.com/lit/an/slva085/slva085.pdf

Originally, the unfiltered AC (allowed by the swollen 1000 uf caps) probably shorted something which in turn caused F9A06 to blow. And now perhaps the latest incident caused F9A03 to blow. There's always a threshold where the trouble passes the cost. Your best bet may be to just replace the Power PCB at this point (should only be $100 new).

noplasma

10-06-07, 05:20 PM

OK I turned on my 62725 set today and had a blue screen on all inputs. The net command would show up on the screen but not what I was trying to watch.

I've never seen that. I used to frequently get blank-screen lockups during power-on, but fortunately, the firmware update fixed that.

noplasma

10-06-07, 05:26 PM

Looks like F9A06 feeds the 10V fan, 12V to the lamp fan and 12V (switched 12V?) to the DM board. If I remember you had these voltages before?

I don't see F9A06 on the block diagram... are you inferring this by examining the actual circuit board?

JoeC4745

10-06-07, 05:37 PM

I don't see F9A06 on the block diagram... are you inferring this by examining the actual circuit board?

Yes, it's just to the left of the two diodes were talked about earlier and above the power resistor. I suspect it's the un-labeled one on pg 49 that feeds Q9A70. Would have to remove it or trace both sides of the board to be sure.

lcaillo

10-06-07, 07:11 PM

Has anyone had luck getting Mitsu parts only thru suppliers?

--Greg

What parts are you looking for and what do you mean by "only through suppliers?" Circuit boards are only available through Mits, but most of the parts on them other than large scale ICs can be found elsewhere.

noplasma

10-06-07, 07:22 PM

> I don't see F9A06 on the block diagram... are you inferring this by examining the actual circuit board?

Yes, it's just to the left of the two diodes were talked about earlier and above the power resistor. I suspect it's the un-labeled one on pg 49 that feeds Q9A70. Would have to remove it or trace both sides of the board to be sure.

Hmmm... makes sense, but one sticking point is that SgtPepper133 reported that his 10V was good previously. If that's true, then his F9A09 and that unlabeled fuse must've been good. That makes me think the unlabeled fuse in the lower block diagram might be F9A08 (which lies to the left of Q9A70 on the board).

Seems like 12VS gets used in 2 major ways: in the lower diagram it provides the 12V and in the upper diagram, it provides the 3.3V. Perhaps the F9A08 is placed for protection in the former & F9A06 is placed for protection in the latter?

At the rate we're going, we'll be drawing up the full schematic soon!

JoeC4745

10-06-07, 08:49 PM

Hmmm... makes sense, but one sticking point is that SgtPepper133 reported that his 10V was good previously. If that's true, then his F9A09 and that unlabeled fuse must've been good. That makes me think the unlabeled fuse in the lower block diagram might be F9A08 (which lies to the left of Q9A70 on the board).

Seems like 12VS gets used in 2 major ways: in the lower diagram it provides the 12V and in the upper diagram, it provides the 3.3V. Perhaps the F9A08 is placed for protection in the former & F9A06 is placed for protection in the latter?

At the rate we're going, we'll be drawing up the full schematic soon!

I hadn't seen F9A08, the green color blended in too well.... Since it's location is next to Q9A70 it must be the unlabeled fuse in the lower block diagram and F9A06 may be for the 3.3V like you suggest. A continuity check shows them both directly connected to 12Vs.

I just hope I get the E2P board and it fixes my set before the schematic is finished.

SgtPepper133

10-06-07, 11:55 PM

What parts are you looking for and what do you mean by "only through suppliers?" Circuit boards are only available through Mits, but most of the parts on them other than large scale ICs can be found elsewhere.

sorry you would never know my Dad was an English Teacher. I was saying parts only (not service) thru suppliers (or service people)... What I was asking was a service shop that would just sell you parts and not want to come out and put them in too! I found one but waiting back to hear price.. (I heard $$ in her voice) :)

--Greg

noplasma

10-07-07, 01:37 AM

What I was asking was a service shop that would just sell you parts and not want to come out and put them in too! I found one but waiting back to hear price.. (I heard $$ in her voice)

I don't blame you if you're about done with troubleshooting... but the "new damage" may have been constrained by F9A03. If F9A03 is open now, then a parts-level fix may be to replace 2 fuses and a shorted node near the PWM pin 6. Then again, if you can get a new board for a reasonable price, that'd probably be the least aggravating route to having a working TV again.

noplasma

10-07-07, 01:41 AM

I just hope I get the E2P board and it fixes my set before the schematic is finished.

Yeah, I'm curious to see if the E2P replacement does the trick. The knee-jerk reaction might've been to replace the Power PCB... I'm glad you were able to trace the problem back to its (hopeful) origin.

JoeC4745

10-07-07, 01:05 PM

So OK the fuse is blown. Now the TV does nothing. So I guess I am going to look for a whole new powerboard and hope that nothing down the line was taken out. Unless there are any other Ideas?

For testing purposes you could pick up some glass fuses with leads (of the correct value) and solder them in to see if they go again. If you are lucky they will get you back to where you were?

JoeC4745

10-07-07, 01:30 PM

Unless there are any other Ideas?

Here are some resistance measurments that may also help. They are taken when the reading seemed to start leveling off from any charging caps:

3.3V 2K
5V 1.5K
6Vs 1.8K
10V 1.9K
12V 1.2K
12Vs 4.8K
15V 470
-15 470
30VS 260K

I should also note that these are taken with all connectors in set connected.

noplasma

10-08-07, 10:04 AM

Here are some resistance measurments that may also help. They are taken when the reading seemed to start leveling off from any charging caps

This should come in handy for other troubleshooting endeavors too. I guess this represents the loads when the TV has been powered on and is in the 70-sec blinking LED cycle (before it ultimately shuts down due to your E2P problem)?

JoeC4745

10-08-07, 01:57 PM

Yeah, I'm curious to see if the E2P replacement does the trick.

Well the good news is I picked up my E2P board..... the bad news is I still have the same problem. Press power, timer/power led lights but set does not come on. Still no pon-1 or pon-2 signal. Can't get at pon to check it.(think it's at the bottom ribbon cable between DM and FMT boards.)

I was told when I picked it up that they weren't sure if it comes programmed. After thrying it and it did not fix my problem I tried flashing it with the firmware that was posted. It did appear to flash the firmware but still no luck.

Pon-2 stays low and pon-1 stays high. They do not change state when pressing power? Anyone know what they should do?

SgtPepper133

10-08-07, 02:03 PM

I don't blame you if you're about done with troubleshooting... but the "new damage" may have been constrained by F9A03. If F9A03 is open now, then a parts-level fix may be to replace 2 fuses and a shorted node near the PWM pin 6. Then again, if you can get a new board for a reasonable price, that'd probably be the least aggravating route to having a working TV again.

Ok you guys might get me back into this yet! The F9A03 looks blown. testing it simply with an ohm meter doesnt give that exact result. Resistance changes but its similar to what I was getting on the 06 and it was blown. I will try and pickup some glass fuses. That has been my frustration I just finally got the 105 Caps I needed today so lead time for troubleshooting is slow. Again wont be able to look at it until Thursday. Ill try and pickup where I left off Thursday maybe!

noplasma

10-08-07, 03:24 PM

Not sure where they are generated but I'm suspecting the signal board as a guess. I can now see that I am missing the 5vs on pin 2 of connector J2 on the signal board ...

Was rereading the thread and wished I had noticed this before you ordered the E2P card. Shouldn't all of the standby voltages be on *before* you hit power-on?

I recommend you troubleshoot that 5Vs. It's probably generated from 6Vs on the signal board, perhaps using a BA05 voltage reg since that's how they do on the power board (see p. 46).

Also, is your 3.3Vs high prior to power-on?

JoeC4745

10-08-07, 03:33 PM

I recommend you troubleshoot that 5Vs. It's probably generated from 6Vs on the signal board, perhaps using a BA05 voltage reg since that's how they do on the power board (see p. 46).
Also, is your 3.3Vs high prior to power-on?

My 3.3Vs on pin 9 and 5Vs on pin 3 of connector LE on the signal board is there in the off state. Pins 3 and 9 on connector J2 is labeled 5Vs but I found that it is switched on when applying a high to pon-2. J2 is where I had originally checked the 5Vs.

I have since found the pon-1 feeds a BA033 regulator on the signal board. pon-1 is high at both power on and off. Could this be normally be high to supply the 3.3Vs?

I'll keep looking to see what else I can find...........

noplasma

10-08-07, 03:35 PM

Ok you guys might get me back into this yet! The F9A03 looks blown. testing it simply with an ohm meter doesnt give that exact result. Resistance changes but its similar to what I was getting on the 06 and it was blown. I will try and pickup some glass fuses. That has been my frustration I just finally got the 105 Caps I needed today so lead time for troubleshooting is slow. Again wont be able to look at it until Thursday. Ill try and pickup where I left off Thursday maybe!

Replacing F9A03 should get you back to where you were previously (bringing the 12V and 10V back online). After that, all you need to do is locate the short (somewhere between 12Vs and IC9A21 pin 6), after which you can replace F9A06. If you replace F9A06 before fixing the short, then it'll probably blow again.

noplasma

10-08-07, 03:54 PM

My 3.3Vs on pin 9 and 5Vs on pin 3 of connector LE on the signal board is there in the off state. Pins 3 and 9 on connector J2 is labeled 5Vs but I found that it is switched on when applying a high to pon-2. J2 is where I had originally checked the 5Vs.

I have since found the pon-1 feeds a BA033 regulator on the signal board. pon-1 is high at both power on and off. Could this be normally be high to supply the 3.3Vs?

I'll keep looking to see what else I can find...........

Ok, so the 5Vs and 3Vs sources sound good. Nice work confirming that pon-2 turns on the 5Vs feed to the optical engine. Troubleshooting pon-1 and pon-2 sounds like a good path. Some of the reset circuitry depicted on p. 53 might play a role.

Also, did you check these 2 steps:

3. LED stops blinking after 70 seconds of plug in but will not power on. This model is equipped with a keyboard lock feature, this can be mistaken as a no power condition. To unlock the keyboard press and hold the "menu" button on the front panel for 10 seconds

4. LED stops blinking after 70 seconds of plug in but will not power on. Check for 3.2 volts DC at connector LE pin 3 and 4 on the Control PCB, if low suspect problems with the switches/buttons on the Control PCB part # 935D776001

I think you'll always get the default 12 code (no error) unless it shuts down with a red LED lit.

JoeC4745

10-08-07, 04:18 PM

Ok, so the 5Vs and 3Vs sources sound good. Nice work confirming that pon-2 turns on the 5Vs feed to the optical engine. Troubleshooting pon-1 and pon-2 sounds like a good path. Some of the reset circuitry depicted on p. 53 might play a role too.

Also, did you check these 2 steps:

Yes, steps 3 & 4 checked OK.

I'll take a look at the reset circuit and check what I can. Thanks!

JoeC4745

10-08-07, 04:47 PM

I think you'll always get the default 12 code (no error) unless it shuts down with a red LED lit.

You are Correct!
From Manual:
The TV must be in “Shut Down” and not manually switched Off, to perform the Error Code Operational Check. When the TV is switched Off, the code automatically resets to “12” No Error.

Set never turns on = no eror found.

This is going to be fun......

Currently I have the FMT and input boards out and disconnected so I can foldout the signal and DM boards. The set doesn't mind yet?

JoeC4745

10-08-07, 05:02 PM

This is going to be fun.....

My wife just informed me that at least twice in the past month after turning on the set there was a meaasge: "timer is turned on and will shut down. Press a key to stop" or something like that.

There is a battery on the DM board to keep something alive. Wonder if I can remove it to clear something?

noplasma

10-08-07, 05:50 PM

Pon-2 stays low and pon-1 stays high. They do not change state when pressing power? Anyone know what they should do?

I wonder if PON-1 is supposed to be standby high. The TG connector pins appear to feed into the IC7P01 FLASH, which from pg. 53 appears to control the IR functions. So perhaps PON-1 goes high at plug-in and activates the circuitry that receives IR from the TV remote? Does the remote power button work?

From your experimenting, it appears that PON-2 tells the switched power lines to come on. So the question of the day is what commands the PON-2? Page 53 suggests that the power-on signal from the control panel (i.e., the TV's ON button) feeds directly to the uProc. Is the uProc powered by the 3.3Vs when the TV is off?

JoeC4745

10-08-07, 06:39 PM

I wonder if PON-1 is supposed to be standby high. The TG connector pins appear feed into the IC7P01 FLASH, which from pg. 53 appears to control the IR functions. So perhaps PON-1 goes high at plug-in and activates the circuitry that needs receive IR from the TV remote? Does the remote power button work?

From your experimenting, it appears that PON-2 tells the switched power lines to come on. So the question of the day is what commands the PON-2? Page 53 suggests that the power-on signal from the control panel (i.e., the TV's ON button) feeds directly to the uProc. Is the uProc powered by the 3.3Vs when the TV is off?

I was wondering the same about pon-1. I traced pon-1 and pon-2 back through 100 ohm resistors to pins 50 and 58 of IC7A00 respecfully. There is no change at the IC at power-on.

With the FMT out of the way I can see pon stays low and does not change as well. Something is keeping the commands from being sent? Makes me wonder about the E2Prom IC7A01 on pg 52?

Need to take a second look at the monitoring circuits again.

JoeC4745

10-08-07, 07:59 PM

Need to take a second look at the monitoring circuits again.

The collectors of all transistors in the monitoring circuit are high. Interesting that the location for Q7A05 is empty along with one for Q7A03. (no components)

I also confirmed that the front timer/pwr LED is controlled from IC7A00 (TV uPC) through a few resistors and Q7A10. So the micro is turning on at some level. Running out of things to check.........

(and yes, my remote can send a power on to the set.)

noplasma

10-08-07, 09:34 PM

Something is keeping the commands from being sent? Makes me wonder about the E2Prom IC7A01 on pg 52?

That's yet another good candidate. P/N is M24C64 and it only contains 64 KB. There's a good chance that it holds the rudimentary start-up commands while the E2P that you replaced contains the operating code & parameters.

Does Mitsu sell the part preprogrammed?

noplasma

10-08-07, 09:40 PM

Running out of things to check....

See the following link for an interesting description of a guy troubleshooting perhaps the same problem:

http://www.hdtvoice.com/voice/archive/index.php/t-30987.html

Mac3150

10-08-07, 10:14 PM

Well, I think my lamp finally went. About a year ago I had nearly 3000 hours on it. Tonight when I turned my WD-52725 on, I got a blue colored screen with a very large white bloch in the middle of the screen. Does this sound like the bulb or should the screen be completely black? Any help is appreciated.

JoeC4745

10-08-07, 10:16 PM

Does Mitsu sell the part preprogrammed?

My guess would be they do. I looked at the data sheet for IC7A00 - M306V7MG and it sounded like it needs a program to set different busses as inputs or outputs as well as the internal eprom needing to be programmed at time of order.

I'm trying to decide if I should give it a try or call someone in at this point.

I really appreciate all the help!

Daniel Murray

10-08-07, 10:25 PM

noplasma

10-08-07, 10:31 PM

JoeC4745

10-08-07, 10:35 PM

See the following link for an interesting description of a guy troubleshooting perhaps the same problem:

http://www.hdtvoice.com/voice/archive/index.php/t-30987.html

Makes me think more that it's the eprom.
One thing that just happened: Error 35 (chassis fan failure).
While troubleshooting I had jumpered the thermal fuse connecton so the chassis fan would run and I would have an indication of power to the set. I powered the set without the jumper or thermal fuse connected and after a few minutes it showed error 35. That tells me the micro is working?

Thanks for the link!!

Mac3150

10-08-07, 11:15 PM

Does it look like this:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=86304&d=1186021574

Thanks for the photo and It looks exactly like that, is it my lamp?

noplasma

10-08-07, 11:49 PM

Thanks for the photo and It looks exactly like that, is it my lamp?

Unfortunately, you have a greater problem. If your lamp were out, the screen would remain black and the TV would fail to start (culminating with a lit red lamp LED).

That picture was posted several months ago on this thread, but we never heard back from the poster on his outcome. You'll need to call a technician and the fix may be expensive. Of course, if you happen to be a do-it-yourself type, we can give you tips for troubleshooting this. The first step in narrowing down the problem would be to try connecting a laptop via the VGA port. This bypasses one of the major internal circuit cards -- it would be interesting to see if you obtained a picture then.

Mac3150

10-09-07, 12:29 AM

noplasma

10-09-07, 09:51 AM

Noplasma, will you direct me to the post you got the picture from? I'd like to PM the person and see how he made out. I'll hook to the VGA tomorrow and post back. Do you have any ideas what it could be? Thanks.

Message # is 4485 on this thread. The poster never responded again after his original post so the discussion died pretty quickly. Hope you're able to contact him.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=444566&pp=30&page=150

noplasma

10-09-07, 10:24 AM

Makes me think more that it's the eprom. Thanks for the link!!

It's interesting that AvionicsGuy states that Pin 50 (same as PON-1 in V26?) is what turns on the main power supply. But, he never mentions pin 58 (PON-2?)... I guess the key is that the uProc is getting hung-up from executing start-up code early on.

I wonder if Mits will sell you a V26 EEPROM or you'll be forced to buy the full Signal board. I hope the packaging isn't TSSOP or anything too fine.

JoeC4745

10-09-07, 11:48 AM

It's interesting that AvionicsGuy states that Pin 50 (same as PON-1 in V26?) is what turns on the main power supply. But, he never mentions pin 58 (PON-2?)... I guess the key is that the uProc is getting hung-up from executing start-up code early on.

I wonder if Mits will sell you a V26 EEPROM or you'll be forced to buy the full Signal board. I hope the packaging isn't TSSOP or anything too fine.

I just spoke to the service center where I got my E2P board. He said that before ordering the eprom he will look into the whole problem for me. He said that even though the power, menu and device switches are working that I could have a leaky switch that is causing the micro problem? Have to disconect the control PCB and try powering on with the remote. If I still have the problem then Mits told him it's probably the signal board. (I'm thinking Eprom?)

The EEProm is an 8 pin flat pack which won't be bad to replace compared to the 80 pin surface mounts I used to do.

Hipnotiq

10-09-07, 12:14 PM

what exactly were the symptoms and findings so far?
Would you mind posting a summary to this point?
You guys post so many threads its hard to keep up if I only check here every few days :)

JoeC4745

10-09-07, 12:57 PM

what exactly were the symptoms and findings so far?
Would you mind posting a summary to this point?
You guys post so many threads its hard to keep up if I only check here every few days :)

It's a 62725 that boots but does not turn on. Power LED lights when pressing power.
Pressing device and menu show code 12 = No error found. (because set never went into shutdown)
There are three power on control lines pon, pon-1 and pon-2 which do not change state after pressing power.
Pon-2 controls the power supply and when I apply a high all supplies come up.
I have confirmed that the LED, pon-1 and pon-2 (didn't trace pon) are controlled by the CPU. (Only the LED changes state.)
The E2P PWB was replaced as suggested. No change.
I am able to perform a flash of the firmware.
I found out yesterday that before this problem there had been an intermitent message displayed on the screen something like:
"timer is turned on and will shut down. Press a key to stop" Could it be related?

That's what I can think of right now.

noplasma

10-09-07, 01:33 PM

I'll hook to the VGA tomorrow and post back. Do you have any ideas what it could be? Thanks.

My guess is that one of the key chips in the Format/DM circuitry flow has inadequate power to drive its outputs. If your OSD works (producing normal yellow letters against a blue background), then I don't think it's the color wheel.

I recently replaced 4 swollen caps on my Format board. Measured values were 300, 430, 275, and 300 uF (each were rated 1000 uF). That's about a 67% drop in capacitance. I don't know what the impact would've been had they continued to degrade, but checking for swollen caps would be a good first step for troubleshooting.

Some useful resources if you choose to open up your unit:

TV Service Manual (V26):
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=OMFZ8E7B

V26 Chassis Replacement Manual
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=6MKC3A3V

I'd be curious as to whether Hipnotiq or Icaillo (the local experts) have seen anything like this...

Mac3150

10-09-07, 05:39 PM

Message # is 4485 on this thread. The poster never responded again after his original post so the discussion died pretty quickly. Hope you're able to contact him.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=444566&pp=30&page=150

Well I pm'd the guy with the same spot as mine and will wait to hear back from him. I hit the reset and now the screen is black and the lamp led is constant red. The manual says to replace the bulb which I will. Any other thoughts or trouble shooting ideas are appreciated.

noplasma

10-09-07, 06:09 PM

Well I pm'd the guy with the same spot as mine and will wait to hear back from him. I hit the reset and now the screen is black and the lamp led is constant red. The manual says to replace the bulb which I will. Any other thoughts or trouble shooting ideas are appreciated.

I found a couple relevant links. First, this guy describes the same symptoms:

http://www.fixya.com/support/t202082-sunburst_pattern_blue_screen

His responders apparently thought it was his lamp. That doesn't really make sense to me. How could the TV make neat OSD letters but be incapable of producing any other coherent imagery simply due to a modified light source??

So he replaced his lamp, but that didn't work:

http://www.fixya.com/support/t205076-get_pwb_signal_930b923002

His conclusion was that he needs a new signal board. You could try replacing the lamp since yours is old anyway, but you'll likely need to either call a tech or do some troubleshooting.

JoeC4745

10-09-07, 10:01 PM

Have to disconect the control PCB and try powering on with the remote. If I still have the problem then Mits told him it's probably the signal board. (I'm thinking Eprom?)

Disconnecting the control board did not help. At this point I think I'm leaning towards going for the whole signal board if Mits confirms and give's it high odds.
I would like to try the EEPROM but it's beginning to take away too much time from what I should be doing.

noplasma

10-09-07, 10:06 PM

Disconnecting the control board did not help. At this point I think I'm leaning towards going for the whole signal board if Mits confirms and give's it high odds.

That's probably what I'd do. If the new signal board works, I'm sure your total repair bill will be much less than what a tech would've charged (especially if they had replaced the entire electrical chassis, as it appears many shops are doing).

JoeC4745

10-09-07, 10:24 PM

(especially if they had replaced the entire electrical chassis, as it appears many shops are doing).

Signal board is $200. The whole chassis is $700 and on back order. Mits said it's probably the signal board but recomended replacing the chassis. Makes me wonder about their confidence of the diagnosis?

From the instructions on pg 16 looks like I'll have to do the"Data copy procedure" since I replaced the E2P.

lcaillo

10-09-07, 10:54 PM

Insist that Mitsubishi replace the set. They have done it for others.

JoeC4745

10-09-07, 11:09 PM

Insist that Mitsubishi replace the set. They have done it for others.

My set is two years old, out of warranty and this is the first repair.

What are the chances?

UMD_Terp

10-10-07, 07:11 AM

My set is two years old, out of warranty and this is the first repair.

What are the chances?

zero... trust me... I've complained to them numerous times.

noplasma

10-10-07, 10:10 AM

Signal board is $200. The whole chassis is $700 and on back order. Mits said it's probably the signal board but recomended replacing the chassis. Makes me wonder about their confidence of the diagnosis?

I emailed that "AvionicsGuy" who did the elaborate troubleshooting on the uproc (and had thought it was the EEPROM hanging it). He hasn't had the guts to spring a couple hundred bucks on a Signal board when it's a "guess" diagnosis. Said his TV is still sitting in pieces in his living room.

That's the scary part -- the EEPROM *is* simply an educated guess (maybe "educated" is a stretch too when we don't even have schematics or start-up sequence charts). Without the needed engineering docs, it's difficult to know what all is going on.

There's little surprise that they're back-ordered on the chassis units. Perhaps they wouldn't be if they dedicated a little more effort to providing troubleshooting procedures (schematics and sequence flows minimally) to their servicers. I imagine their most capable engineers are immediately subsumed into the design teams for the next rushed model, which limits the old model troubleshooting to guesses and shotgun fixes.

JoeC4745

10-10-07, 12:18 PM

(had thought it was the EEPROM hanging it). He hasn't had the guts to spring a couple hundred bucks on a Signal board when it's a "guess" diagnosis. Said his TV is still sitting in pieces in his living room.

Thank you for checking with him.
So are you saying he tried the EEPROM and it didn't fix his problem or he was leaning towards replacing the whole board and just hasn't?

Yes, sometimes when troubleshooting you have to make an educated guess even with schematics. But without the info I feel less educated :)

Ordered mine this morning 2nd day air. Should have an answer Friday!

It's worth the $200 just to get if off my kitchen table!!

noplasma

10-10-07, 12:36 PM

Thank you for checking with him.
So are you saying he tried the EEPROM and it didn't fix his problem or he was leaning towards replacing the whole board and just hasn't?

I asked him if he had replaced the EEPROM but his response implied he hadn't replaced anything -- I don't know if that's because he was unable to buy the EEPROM part separately or if he simply was preferring a full signal board replacement.

Did you find out from Mits if they even sell individual EEPROMs preprogrammed for V26?

Hopefully the signal board replacement will do it. I'm sure AvionicsGuy will be interested your outcome.

JoeC4745

10-10-07, 01:01 PM

Did you find out from Mits if they even sell individual EEPROMs preprogrammed for V26?

I didn't bother to find out since I decided to go for the board.

I'm sure they have them some where so they can repair all the duds that come back.

lcaillo

10-10-07, 05:36 PM

My set is two years old, out of warranty and this is the first repair.

What are the chances?

That depends on how you apporach them. If you are reasonable, have all your documentation, and can make a case for why they should do it the chances are good that they will do something. I just had them offer to replace one for one of my clients that was 2 1/2 years old because they could not supply the chassis. The client did not want it replaced because of a custom cabinet, so we finally fixed it but they paid for the chassis.

delar

10-11-07, 02:06 AM

I've been reading with great interest all the recent troubleshooting posts from the various forum regulars while enjoying my recently problem-free 52525. Well, tonight it appears I will need to go back and study all those posts becuase I too am now experiencing the red lamp error. I turned the unit on and got a blue screen with some distorted image on all inputs. Resetting the TV didn't change anything. I unplugged for several minutes then fired up. Now it goes from green light to solid red and unit shuts off. If the lamp is coming on its doing so only momentarily.

Judging from previous posts, I'm guessing it is the lamp ballast, power board or light engine. Hopefully it's something I can repair myself (caps, etc). If it's the light engine, to the curbside for bulky item pickup it goes.

P.S. I've already replaced the DM board last year (blinking green light).

Edit: After replacing the lamp with my old backup, I get a constant blinking orange light. Set does not power up after reset or uplugging. Blinking orange light remains after putting the first lamp back in. Any ideas?

UMD_Terp

10-11-07, 06:56 AM

can you check for codes? Press DEVICE + MENU and count the blinks.

noplasma

10-11-07, 09:36 AM

I turned the unit on and got a blue screen with some distorted image on all inputs.

When the picture was distorted, was it like Mac3150 described (see posted pics and discussion during the past several days)?

I get a constant blinking orange light.

Blinking yellow LAMP LED means "Lamp Cover open"....

st77

10-11-07, 10:55 AM

Hipnotiq

10-11-07, 11:27 AM

noplasma

10-11-07, 12:04 PM

Any help is appreciated. Thanks

I think you're the 5th person to post about this problem recently (between the several sites I peruse), although I have yet to see anyone post a verified solution or provide a visiting tech's diagnosis. Does your on-screen display work?

If this is the same problem as Delar's & he checks all of his boards for swollen caps, it'll be interesting to see if he finds anything.

I had a question for the experienced ones here. Internally, there's a DVI cable that takes the final image produced by the FMT/Signal/DM boards to the Optical Engine. When you're troubleshooting, would a quick way to determine whether the optical engine is good be to connect an external video source to that internal DVI socket on the light engine? I imagine that might trigger error 44 ("DVI Cable between Chassis and Engine disconnected") ... if so, anyway to get around that? (Perhaps switch the connection after passing boot-up??)

st77

10-11-07, 12:37 PM

I think you're the 5th person to post about this problem recently (between the several sites I peruse), although I have yet to see anyone post a verified solution or provide a visiting tech's diagnosis. Does your on-screen display work?

If this is the same problem as Delar's & he checks all of his boards for swollen caps, it'll be interesting to see if he finds anything.

I had a question for the experienced ones here. Internally, there's a DVI cable that takes the final image produced by the FMT/Signal/DM boards to the Optical Engine. When you're troubleshooting, would a quick way to determine whether the optical engine is good be to connect an external video source to that internal DVI socket on the light engine? I imagine that would trigger might trigger error 44 ("DVI Cable between Chassis and Engine disconnected") ... if so, anyway to get around that? (Perhaps switch the connection after passing boot-up??)
Yes, the on-screen display (Device menu) showed up and I could navigate throughout but that's about it.

Luckily, I have extended warranty with Tweeter for 2 more yrs. They'll come out next week and I guess I'll have to wait few more weeks to get it fixed. I went ahead and sent them the same photos that I posted here and hope that they can identify the problem and ordering the needed part BEFORE they come out.

I'll post their findings.

Thanks again to all.

UMD_Terp

10-11-07, 01:16 PM

I had a question for the experienced ones here. Internally, there's a DVI cable that takes the final image produced by the FMT/Signal/DM boards to the Optical Engine. When you're troubleshooting, would a quick way to determine whether the optical engine is good be to connect an external video source to that internal DVI socket on the light engine? I imagine that might trigger error 44 ("DVI Cable between Chassis and Engine disconnected") ... if so, anyway to get around that? (Perhaps switch the connection after passing boot-up??)

conversely, could you take the DVI cable and plug it into a small computer monitor to isolate the issue? I bet you could... I am guessing that the DVI cable is carrying a fixed 1280x720 resolution signal that a monitor should be able to sync to.

noplasma

10-11-07, 01:18 PM

I'll post their findings. Thanks again to all.

I'm glad you have the EW -- that'll save you a lot of $$. In particular, I'm curious as to whether they will replace your light engine or something in your electrical chassis (that's where most of your electronics boards reside). If possible, please ask the tech what part he's replacing.

On one hand, lighting artifacts are often caused by a bad light engine. But on the other hand... the light engine receives a color value for each of the 921,600 pixels (720x1280) that it needs to display every frame. From its perspective, there's no difference in whether that info originally came from the TV's OSD or some other source material. So if the light engine is faulty, why would it be able to accurately display all of the OSD pixels but NONE of the video source pixels? That's why my guess is that it's one of the cards in the electrical chassis. The OSD gets added near the end of the data flow there.

noplasma

10-11-07, 01:20 PM

conversely, could you take the DVI cable and plug it into a small computer monitor to isolate the issue? I bet you could... I am guessing that the DVI cable is carrying a fixed 1280x720 resolution signal that a monitor should be able to sync to.

Good idea. Anyone trying to troubleshoot this "starburst" issue on their own should try that... to see if it's the light engine or the electrical chassis that's faulty.

UMD_Terp

10-11-07, 02:04 PM

One note though... I think the light engine may be responsible for the OSD text insertion. I don't know why, but I seem to recall that... that would imply that some parts of the LE have failed.

delar

10-11-07, 02:32 PM

When the picture was distorted, was it like Mac3150 described (see posted pics and discussion during the past several days)?

Blinking yellow LAMP LED means "Lamp Cover open"....
Yes, I discovered my error soon after posting.

And yes, it appears I have the same dreaded sunburst distortion that shows in st77's posted pictures. Behavior is exactly the same. At least that's what I saw the first time I turned the set on yesterday. After unplugging, I now only get the solid red light. Could a LE failure cause this, or should I concentrate on the chassis first?

Terp, I press Device + Menu and get 3 blinks, then four blinks.

Hipnotiq

10-11-07, 02:47 PM

conversely, could you take the DVI cable and plug it into a small computer monitor to isolate the issue? I bet you could... I am guessing that the DVI cable is carrying a fixed 1280x720 resolution signal that a monitor should be able to sync to.
Unfortunately this won't work.
There are encrypted copy-protection data links between the engine and the chassis.

Hipnotiq

10-11-07, 02:49 PM

Terp, I press Device + Menu and get 3 blinks, then four blinks.
Error code 34 is not very helpful...it could still be engine, lamp, ballast or connection between each of them or the chassis...

34 Lamp abnormality

noplasma

10-11-07, 03:10 PM

One note though... I think the light engine may be responsible for the OSD text insertion. I don't know why, but I seem to recall that... that would imply that some parts of the LE have failed.

p. 49 of the service manual shows a block for "OSD Ins." on the format board. It's actually one of the last things done before the signal heads out the DVI cable.

delar

10-11-07, 04:44 PM

I'll do some troubleshooting tonight and let you all know. Thanks.

budbrr

10-11-07, 07:34 PM

I had posted the blue screen with white blotch a while back.

The problem was the "power supply" (930B921002) and the "optical engine" (939P977020). I had the extended warranty, so it was free, but I think it would have been at least $600.
It was not the bulb.

The set is back to normal now.
Sorry I didn't post results back sooner.
I certainly did not feel comfortable looking at capacitors or anything else on the board so I can't help with anything like that.
Bud

SK8_MD

10-11-07, 07:54 PM

I have a WD 52525 for almost 3 yrs now and the bulb life has 3151 hrs. When I turned it on yesterday, my TV got blog of lines in the middle of the screen and no pictures. It showed same things under DVD device (see attached) or regular cable (see 2nd attachment).

what could be the problem?

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks

I had a very similar display last week except it wasn’t confined to the center of the screen. I went through a few power cycles and the display went out altogether. I got an error code of 34. I took it apart and looked for bad caps and found 3 of them. I replaced them and it fixed my problem. Considering the many other folks with capacitor problems, it would be a good first step in the troubleshooting process.

Daniel Murray

10-11-07, 08:09 PM

Did Mitsubishi get there parts from China?
I wonder with all the Problems there sets have!!

tlbowerts

10-11-07, 08:40 PM

Did Mitsubishi get there parts from China?
I wonder with all the Problems there sets have!!

If you read every post of every RPTV thread here, you will find that they all have had a good many problems, so do they all get them from China?

delar

10-12-07, 01:03 AM

After pulling the cover to the power board; I was able to see the same 2 capacitors bulging and oozing out their tops. Luckily nothing got on the PCB. I was able to remove them and they are definitely no good; 200uf and 60 uf. I'm surprised the TV worked as long as it did.
I went to our local electronics store and the closest Capacitor I could find was 3300uf 25V. I hope I can get these to fit on the board, they are a little larger diameter. Can't wait to get home from work to see if this solves my problem.

Keep your fingers crossed!
Well, tonight I found that the 2 capacitors ltw9, noplasma and others found swollen and leaking on their power boards (C9A37 & C9A38) are also swollen and leaking on mine. I will run to the local electronics supply store tomorrow and see if I can scare up replacements. If so, I'm hopeful to have the set up and running Friday night.

st77

10-12-07, 09:17 AM

Do you think that Tweeter EW would replace the caps only or the whole board? I hope they hope would replace the board.

What did you need to do to find out the error code?

Thanks

trapperjohnMD

10-12-07, 09:40 AM

Do you think that Tweeter EW would replace the caps only or the whole board? I hope they hope would replace the board.

If they replace the board its not like its a brand new board. Those boards are all refurbished and could have some intermittent problem that a tech didnt notice.
For me, I would prefer to keep my original board (unless there were some other problem with it)

trapperjohnMD

10-12-07, 09:43 AM

If you read every post of every RPTV thread here, you will find that they all have had a good many problems, so do they all get them from China?
Yes, they are all made in China.

noplasma

10-12-07, 01:49 PM

If they replace the board its not like its a brand new board. Those boards are all refurbished and could have some intermittent problem that a tech didnt notice. For me, I would prefer to keep my original board (unless there were some other problem with it)

I sometimes wonder at why some servicers are so quick to replace whole chassis and even sometimes replace both a chassis & light engine on TV's rather than to do better troubleshooting (replacing just the bad board or part). The reasons are probably multiple (desire to minimize risk of wrong diagnosis, lack of time, lack of set experience, lack of schematics, etc). Regardless, I bet Mits really benefits from it all.

Think of budbrr for example. Mits probably charged the EW-underwriting store a nice sum for that light engine and power PCB. All Mits had to do then was replace two caps and they had a power board & a light engine ready for resale.

Maybe that's why Mits doesn't release more materials to assist troubleshooting. If one Mits lab does all the troubleshooting & refurbing, that's probably pretty economical for them.

JoeC4745

10-12-07, 03:54 PM

Hopefully the signal board replacement will do it. I'm sure AvionicsGuy will be interested your outcome.

I'm sad to say that the signal board did not fix my problem. I spoke to the service center I have been getting my parts from and he said that he will contact Mits and see what they advise now? Since the Tv uPC communicates with just about every board in the set I guess it's possible it could be anything?

Hipnotiq

10-12-07, 06:40 PM

JoeC4745

10-12-07, 07:00 PM

Were you the guy that couldnt get 3.3V to turn on? or was your problem something else?

The switched 3.3V and others would not come up.

Summary is at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11855667#post11855667

noplasma

10-12-07, 07:54 PM

I'm sad to say that the signal board did not fix my problem. I spoke to the service center I have been getting my parts from and he said that he will contact Mits and see what they advise now? Since the Tv uPC communicates with just about every board in the set I guess it's possible it could be anything?

That's really disappointing... hopefully you can get some of your money back by selling that signal card to your servicer or on ebay.

On that other thread, Icaillo mentioned seeing one instance where the DM board was hanging the uProc and not allowing it to complete the boot cycle. He also mentioned checking for a stuck data line:

"Look for one with repeated bursts of activity that don't change. Try opening that data line and see if it frees up the control."

Have you tried this? Of course you'd need a scope. You might also try disconnecting connections from the Signal board to the other boards to see if can get a PON-2 pulse.

It's definitely discouraging to play this hit-or-miss game with replacing boards... but on the other hand, a new chassis is $600. So if you can "guess" right on your second try, you'd still probably save money. I guess my next candidate would be the DM board, but this definitely sucks. I wish we could read error codes off the uproc.

delar

10-13-07, 02:04 AM

Replaced the 2 capacitors on the power board and it's working now. All of $4.71 spent.

noplasma

10-13-07, 02:30 AM

Replaced the 2 capacitors on the power board and it's working now. All of $4.71 spent.

Glad to hear it. I initially feared that this "starburst" issue was yet another new widespread problem. It's nice to know it's simply the same-old-cap problem, just with slightly different observables.

collin

10-13-07, 05:45 AM

SK8_MD

10-13-07, 07:34 AM

My guess would be there is nothing wrong with these caps or they haven't failed in the same manner as mine or the others with pictures I have seen on this site. I was also wondering if I should just go ahead and replace all the caps on the power board since this is probably a bad batch of capacitors from Nichicon. I chose the quicker and simpler approach, of course.

I wasn't or wouldn't be too concerned about the replacement caps. Any general purpose electrolytic with radial leads would do. I would stay away from the Nichicon products for obvious reasons. The size of the capacitor increases as the voltage rating increases so stay with or close to the same voltage rating or you may have trouble fitting the replacements on the board.

I only took out the power board and I was able to power it up without putting it back in the chassis. Just had the to re-install the filter cover.

Good luck with the troubleshooting.

noplasma

10-13-07, 10:50 AM

i have a WD-52725 that won't power up and has the blinking green light

When the green LED is blinking, does the TV shut-off after 70 seconds or does it endlessly blink until you cut power?

As for the capacitors, they can be significantly degraded without showing much bulging. I recently replaced 4 caps on my FMT board -- the bulging could only be seen if photographed at the right angle. From straight above, it was much less evident (see attached picture1). From an oblique angle, you can see the bulging just a little (see attached picture2). Upon measurement, these caps were degraded by an average of 67%. I've read that caps can often handle up to 50% degradation (depending on design), but after that you can start getting into trouble. So if you think you can see some bulge, it wouldn't hurt to replace them. In my case (on the FMT board), I think they were slightly messing up the picture color.

As for running the TV, I'd say you can do it at any stage of disassembly as long as all the cables are connected and you override the filter cover safety button. Just always keep one hand behind your back while working & be sure to disconnect power when you're done making measurements. :-)

Have you checked all the power supplies test points yet? (5V TP, 3.3V TP, etc) I wonder if you might have the same issue as Joe does...

collin

10-13-07, 06:23 PM

When the green LED is blinking, does the TV shut-off after 70 seconds or does it endlessly blink until you cut power?

I didn't test for this specifically, but i'm pretty sure it was on for longer than that while I was trying to get it to do the blinking error code thing. What would the shut off mean?

As for running the TV, I'd say you can do it at any stage of disassembly as long as all the cables are connected and you override the filter cover safety button. ... Have you checked all the power supplies test points yet? (5V TP, 3.3V TP, etc)

Where is the filter cover safety button? Also, are the power supply test points shown in the service manual? If not, where are they?

Any links to specific capacitor product lines that have worked well for others?

JoeC4745

10-13-07, 08:54 PM

hopefully you can get some of your money back by selling that signal card to your servicer or on ebay.
The servicer is going to see if Mits will take it back since it did not fix the problem and it is what they suggested to replace. Should find out Monday? (You have to trade your old PWB to get the lower $200 price.)

On that other thread, Icaillo mentioned seeing one instance where the DM board was hanging the uProc and not allowing it to complete the boot cycle.
The set does complete the initial boot cycle and I can even flash the firmware. Kind of strange. (I also noticed that after flashing the set erases the files on the mem-card.)

Look for one with repeated bursts of activity that don't change.
Have you tried this? Of course you'd need a scope. You might also try disconnecting connections from the Signal board to the other boards to see if can get a PON-2 pulse. Tried disconnecting what I could without any luck. Had pretty much all but the DM PWB disconnected. It won't complete the initial boot without it.

I don't really want to take any chances with the new signal board until I find out if it can be returned. It's not easy to access the surface mounted ribbon cable connectors to the DM safely.

I was able to scope the ripple on the PWR board standbys and the DM 3.3V switching supply where the famous DM caps are. It looked good, around 50mV of ripple. As you probably know the DM creates it's own 3.3V from the 12Vs.

It's definitely discouraging to play this hit-or-miss game with replacing boards... but on the other hand, a new chassis is $600. I guess my next candidate would be the DM board, but this definitely sucks. I wish we could read error codes off the uproc.

Yeah, it could be the DM board. Guess I'll have to wait and see what Mits says now? From my experience so far I can see why it would be easier for a shop to just replace the chassis. I'm begining to consider it myself, except that I don't know how long of a backorder it's on.......

but this definitely sucks.

You can say that again!!

JoeC4745

10-13-07, 09:29 PM

I came accross this the other day:

http://www.badcaps.net/pages.php?vid=4

It seems this cap problem is quite wide spread.

trapperjohnMD

10-14-07, 12:54 AM

Joe, sorry to hear about all the issues your having. I think Mits will refund that board, they are easy about things like that. If you purchased through a repair tech, then its not up to Mits. Its up to the store. They just have to return it and wait for refund (that refund is not immediate and could take a month or more).

I wonder if you have been able to verify the control line to the TVMicro from the power button (or remote sensor)?
I recall you disconnected the control PWB (which is a must), and replaced the E2P and Signal PWB.

If PON2 never activates, then you should attempt to isolate that line to verify if POWER PWB is loading it.

trapperjohnMD

10-14-07, 12:58 AM

I came accross this the other day:

http://www.badcaps.net/pages.php?vid=4

It seems this cap problem is quite wide spread.

I am all for conspiracy theories, but this is a Mits design flaw. They have had this issue since V19.

jawn

10-14-07, 01:23 AM

Has anyone had any luck displaying their mac through the VGA port? I've been beating my head against this thing all night. My PC works fine (using custom timings with Powerstrip) but this Macbook Pro just won't work. I've tried the Macbook on an LCD tv and it worked fine.

I took my custom timings from Powerstrip and tried them with DisplayConfigX and that didn't work either. I'm ready to jump kick this thing! (But I'm not sure whether to jump kick the Mac or the TV.)

EDIT: So it's not a Mac thing as my old Powerbook works fine. I just can't get the Macbook Pro to work on here. I even dual booted into Windows and it doesnt work. Bizarre.

trapperjohnMD

10-14-07, 01:53 AM

whaaaa??? I thought Mac was so easy and PC sucked? ;)

JoeC4745

10-14-07, 09:20 AM

I wonder if you have been able to verify the control line to the TVMicro from the power button (or remote sensor)?
I recall you disconnected the control PWB (which is a must), and replaced the E2P and Signal PWB.

If PON2 never activates, then you should attempt to isolate that line to verify if POWER PWB is loading it.

Although I didn't check the control line or remote directly to the micro the fact that pressing power on the front panel or remote causes the power LED to light suggests that they are OK. The control for the LED comes directly from the micro. I also tried disconnecting the remote sensor leaving the front panel connected.

In addition to PON-2 I also verified that PON and PON-1 never change state. PON and PON-2 stay low and PON-1 stays high. From the interconnect diagram on the last page of the manual PON can only be seen coming from the DM board. PON is the only one I didn't trace back to the micro.

Thanks for the suggestions.

JoeC4745

10-14-07, 10:21 AM

... pressing power on the front panel or remote causes the power LED to light suggests that they are OK. The control for the LED comes directly from the micro.

Does anyone know what info is stored on the E2P PWB? From the maual pg 16 it suggests that at least the light engine and terminal data is stored there. There appeared to be 3 EPROMs on the E2P - Is the firmware also located there? or is it in the signal board EPROM?

The E2P was the first recomendation from Mits for my symptom. Since the set boots and if the firmware is stored there. I'm wondering if there could be a chip select problem to the E2P board.

I believe there were only 4 pins on the connector to the E2P so the 3 chips may be treated as a bank instead of individually. Am I reaching here?

JoeC4745

10-15-07, 09:29 AM

Where is the filter cover safety button? Also, are the power supply test points shown in the service manual? If not, where are they?

With the back off you can re-attach the filter cover to take care of the safety button.

The test points are marked on the power board and look like 1/4" blades sticking out from the board. They are scattered on the board but if you look you should see them. The 12Vs is located right in the center of the board so you'll know what one looks like.

noplasma

10-15-07, 10:14 AM

Does anyone know what info is stored on the E2P PWB? From the maual pg 16 it suggests that at least the light engine and terminal data is stored there. There appeared to be 3 EPROMs on the E2P - Is the firmware also located there? or is it in the signal board EPROM?

Well, the signal EEPROM (IC7A01) only holds 64 KB. I was thinking the firmware update was larger than that.

I'm wondering if there could be a chip select problem to the E2P board.

From looking at the flow diagrams, the TV appears to use two buses, EIA-422 / RS-422 for data and I2C for control perhaps. Maybe there's bus contention on the I2C, a pull-up resistor connected to a failed rail... or perhaps an IC is failing to tristate or otherwise pulling the bus down??

noplasma

10-15-07, 10:21 AM

I believe there were only 4 pins on the connector to the E2P so the 3 chips may be treated as a bank instead of individually. Am I reaching here?

That seems most likely. If you have the generic P/N for the part, you could check the datasheet and verify that it's scalable.

John Geis

10-15-07, 11:39 AM

JoeC4745

10-15-07, 11:46 AM

That seems most likely. If you have the generic P/N for the part, you could check the datasheet and verify that it's scalable.

Looks like there is a 64K, 256K and 512K on the E2P:
IC80E1 275P657050 IC-C-MOS - 24LC256T-I/SN
IC80E2 276P174010 IC-C-MOS - AT24C512N-10S1-2.7
IC80E3 270P880010 IC - 24LC64I/SN

Just spoke to the servicer and he called Mits this morning. They said to try disconnecting the remote pick-up PCB (which I had already done). Otherwise it would be the famous DM board which is on B/O with an ETA of 10/26. They currently have no ETA for the entire chassis. I decided to go for the DM at $298.

Good thing I brought my 46" tube set up from the basement yesterady!

noplasma

10-15-07, 11:49 AM

I didn't test for this specifically, but i'm pretty sure it was on for longer than that while I was trying to get it to do the blinking error code thing. What would the shut off mean?

Mits has the following troubleshooting steps for when the green light blinks endlessly:

6. LED does not stop blinking after 70 seconds of plug in. Disconnect the USB connector from the card reader to the front from the Chassis, if the unit will then boot up replace the Card Reader part # 299P271010.

7. LED does not stop blinking after 70 seconds of plug in. Disconnecting the USB connector from the Card Reader did not help. Suspect the DM PCB part # 934C116002.

Any links to specific capacitor product lines that have worked well for others?

I think Radio Shack stock should work fine for replacing those 1000 uF's. (+/-20% tolerance is adequate & using a higher voltage max rating is fine as long as the larger size fits).

noplasma

10-15-07, 12:13 PM

They currently have no ETA for the entire chassis. I decided to go for the DM at $298.

It's nice that you found a servicer that will interface with Mits for you (while allowing you to do the bulk of the labor). I wonder if the 3.3V I2C control bus is hung (see lines marked SDA/SCL). p. 52 shows connections to the IC2000 and PWB-DM. Hopefully replacing the DM will do the trick.

JoeC4745

10-15-07, 04:28 PM

It's nice that you found a servicer that will interface with Mits for you (while allowing you to do the bulk of the labor). I wonder if the 3.3V I2C control bus is hung (see lines marked SDA/SCL). p. 52 shows connections to the IC2000 and PWB-DM. Hopefully replacing the DM will do the trick.

Actually the servicer turned out to be someone I used to see at technical meetings back when I was in the field. Just never new his name so it has turned out good in my situation. He told me that the Mits tech said that after trying the signal board (have original back) we are now in uncharted territory...... they have never seen this. Hope it wasn't some dumb oversight on my part?

If I can trace the bus back to a place that is accessible I will take a look. Besides not having a schematic that's the biggest problem.... trying to get at some of these points.

Thanks for all your support!

noplasma

10-15-07, 06:03 PM

If I can trace the bus back to a place that is accessible I will take a look. Besides not having a schematic that's the biggest problem.... trying to get at some of these points.

Yeah, it would be good to probe that I2C bus further. A good working theory is that the IC7A01 EEPROM (signal board) runs the startup commands which includes a command to the uproc to turn on the PON's. Since the I2C bus appears to connect to TERM2, Opt. Engine, & the DM, any of those connections could be potentially hanging up the bus. I'm worried that replacing the DM might not fix things if one of those other connections is the problem.

Perhaps you could start by looking for IC7A05 and IC7A06 on the signal board. These are FET switches between the optical engine and the I2C bus (they also perform a level shift from the 5V opt eng to the 3.3V bus). Since these ICs connect directly to the bus, you should be able to gauge its activity.

LATER EDIT: Now I wonder if this is barking up the wrong tree. Check out these documents for PON troubleshooting... (start at chart 18 in the first link)

http://www.pasctraining.panasonic.com/pass/elearn/files/Plasma/9th_Generation_Plasma_Display_TV.pdf

http://www.paradigmstore.com/ctc203.pdf

Too bad we don't have something like this for the Mits TV's. This helps give an appreciation for the complexity involved in these troubleshooting efforts.

collin

10-15-07, 06:25 PM

Mits has the following troubleshooting steps for when the green light blinks endlessly:

6. LED does not stop blinking after 70 seconds of plug in. Disconnect the USB connector from the card reader to the front from the Chassis, if the unit will then boot up replace the Card Reader part # 299P271010.

Thanks for this one... just to confrim: is the card reader the USB cable that is plugged into the top of the chassis?

ttenn

10-16-07, 02:17 AM

I'm having problems getting the V-chip to turn on. I just want to use the "lock by time" feature.

Here is how I tried to set it up:
I push the "TV/Menu" button to get the main window. Scroll over to "V-chip Lock" then hit Enter. I enter in the passcode that I had entered previously. Turn on "Lock by Time" and set the times I want it to lock. Then I hit the "TV/Menu" button to back out of the menu system.

After doing this, I go back into the menu and the "Lock by Time" is off. No matter how I set it or get out of the menu system, returning always turns the "Lock by Time" off. I have verified this by turning the set off, waiting for the blinking to stop, then turning it back on. It never asks me for the code and goes straight to the picture.

I have version 4.05 firmware and have the clock manually set. Any ideas? Does this only work on ANT-1? I know that it cannot read the ratings from satelite, but I only want to restrict the time that my kids can watch TV. I can use the rating system on the satelite box to control the content.

noplasma

10-16-07, 10:27 AM

Thanks for this one... just to confrim: is the card reader the USB cable that is plugged into the top of the chassis?

I recall only seeing one internal USB cable, so it seems like a good bet that that's the one.

JoeC4745

10-16-07, 01:41 PM

Perhaps you could start by looking for IC7A05 and IC7A06 on the signal board. These are FET switches between the optical engine and the I2C bus (they also perform a level shift from the 5V opt eng to the 3.3V bus). Since these ICs connect directly to the bus, you should be able to gauge its activity.
I've kind of resigned to thinking board level at this point but I know my curiosity (while waiting for the DM) will get the better of me.

I'm worried that replacing the DM might not fix things if one of those other connections is the problem.....
Me too..... If the chassis was available I'd probably have gone for it. I've already spent about $170 between 1 and 2 day shipping and restock fees. All I have that's new is the E2P board

Too bad we don't have something like this for the Mits TV's. This helps give an appreciation for the complexity involved in these troubleshooting efforts.

At this point I even wonder if they have anything like the Panasonic procedure. That was one thing that was always good about them. When I was asked what to buy I would say Panasonic because if it had a problem I would have been the one fixing it. :)

Hipnotiq

10-16-07, 04:02 PM

Does anyone have, or know where I can get a copy of those?
I e-mailed Mits and haven't heard from them yet, I'm sure I'll long from this world before I hear anything from them :rolleyes:

Thanks for any help
They used to have it on their website. It was buried, but I couldnt find it just now. I think they took it down.
I think I have a copy somewhere, if there is some function you need maybe I could look it up for u...

John Geis

10-16-07, 05:38 PM

They used to have it on their website. It was buried, but I couldnt find it just now. I think they took it down.
I think I have a copy somewhere, if there is some function you need maybe I could look it up for u...

I did fine a link to a site that had the protocols at one time, unfortunately it was a dead link...probably the one you might be referring to.
There isn't just one function I was interested in, I'm planning on setting up a control system and would like to use the serial commands for the Mits.
Thanks for your help! :)

jawn

10-16-07, 07:59 PM

Well for this the Mac sucks.... I just tried a friends Macbook Pro and have the same exact problems. Has anyone gotten a newer (Core 2 Duo, Santa Rosa chipset) Macbook Pro to work through the VGA?

tmfuller

10-17-07, 10:16 AM

Does anyone have any experience replacing a power supply on Mitsu WD-52725? Mitsu Tech Service just told local service guy my problem is most likely a bad power supply (sounds like the problem with capacitors discussed here).

Problem is tech can't get out to me for another week or more. Thought power supply might be something I could replace myself.

Any advice???

Todd

noplasma

10-17-07, 11:20 AM

Problem is tech can't get out to me for another week or more. Thought power supply might be something I could replace myself. Any advice???

~5 people here have reported doing the caps replacement successfully. Browse through the last few pages of the thread to find a link to the service manual. It's not too hard as long as you have basic soldering skills.

trapperjohnMD

10-18-07, 12:33 AM

Well for this the Mac sucks.... I just tried a friends Macbook Pro and have the same exact problems. Has anyone gotten a newer (Core 2 Duo, Santa Rosa chipset) Macbook Pro to work through the VGA?

come to the darkside....

st77

10-18-07, 09:50 AM

I had a very similar display last week except it wasn’t confined to the center of the screen. I went through a few power cycles and the display went out altogether. I got an error code of 34. I took it apart and looked for bad caps and found 3 of them. I replaced them and it fixed my problem. Considering the many other folks with capacitor problems, it would be a good first step in the troubleshooting process.
My TV got fixed yesterday by Tweeter EW.

CAPS problems ! There were 2 bad caps. Identical to what SK8_MD went through. Kudos to those who fixed it themselves because it sure was complicated.

Thanks again to all.

teqnikool1

10-18-07, 10:42 AM

videobruce

10-18-07, 12:39 PM

Though this has to do more with the 732/832 series, most should apply to the 05/06 model year as well as the 07/08 model year.

After receiving a few PMs' from members with these sets, apparently there IS another issue to add to my list from 2005;
http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=593005

This new issue was first brought up last November (post 6635);
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9002653#post9002653
I have not posted here for a while now but I need to know if anyone else is having this same problem. I posted maybe a month ago that I was having an issue with my picture on my WD 65831 flicking darker when switching to a lighter scene and flicking lighter when the picture switches to a darker scene. I cannot remember who replied last time to it but they wrote it off as my DNI being on. I was fairly certain this would not be able to pass as something useable if it did this to all the sets...but I thought, maybe. No, it isn't. I have tried everything and it is the most annoying thing, when scenes switch from a darker to lighter or vise versa it will compensate for it I guess about a second after it switches scenes. My dad got the WD 57831 a few weeks ago and I checked his out to see if his did it too. I set everything to exactly the same settings and played with everything. His for sure does not do it, and it isn't because mine is 8" bigger, that is for sure. It is the most frustrating thing and it keeps me from getting into any show I watch because the brightness change.
If anyone else has had this same problem please tell me. I am going to call Mitsubishi sometime this week, I just want to have as much information as possible, and hearing that someone else is having this same problem would be very helpful!
Thanks!Then in March there was a longer discussion about it with thanks to Kelendral for researching all the members who could see thhis obvious problem;Ok, this has been driving me crazy for a while now. On WD-73831 and I've been getting the Brightness Contrast flicker mentioned several times in this thread (links below).
It's highly annoying as you'll have a close-up dialog scene with a mostly static light or dark background and then one actor will make some quick moves and the whole screen appears to flicker (usually darkens for a split second).
From reading the posted threads Mitsubishi is claiming it's from poor connecting HDMI cables but I have seen thing on the Direct Cable RG6 connected cable in, and over component connections as well.
My current settings have
Deep Field Imager: Off
Video Noise: Off
Sharp Edge: Off
Has anyone seen a solution to this issue?
Has Mitsubishi even acknowledged or repaired it for anyone?
Links:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8525776&&#post8525776
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9002653&&#post9002653
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10322312&&#post10322312
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10334516&&#post10334516
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10338234&&#post10338234
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10368651&&#post10368651
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10369253&&#post10369253
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10371036&&#post10371036
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10373009&&#post10373009
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10380214&&#post10380214
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10380324&&#post10380324
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10380418&&#post10380418
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10384414&&#post10384414
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10384439&&#post10384439
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10384527&&#post10384527
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10385387&&#post10385387 So now I can add to the list from the 2005 model year 'Cropped 4x3 analog' issue (which has not been fixed inspite of at least four members here who said it was (that couldn't follow my instructions on how to check). :mad:

Add these to the 'defective thermister connector' and the 'dust in the optical path' issues that have been brough up this year. We now have a list of 'deal breakers'.

SK8_MD

10-18-07, 06:53 PM

I have a question for you guys: "knowing now what you do about DLP televisions; will your next TV be DLP, or something else?"

I bought my TV used from a colleague, and have had a fairly good experience with it. Since it is now a few years old, and I'm keeping up to date with the product repair notes that have been stated, I wonder if I shouldn't look elsewhere for my next purchase?

Your comments are appreciated.

I'm looking at the LED backlit LCDs. The Samsung LN-T5781F looks awesome. I am happy with my DLP for now, especially after a fresh cleaning, but when the prices come down on these new LCD's, I'll be switching.

IFLYSWA

10-18-07, 10:43 PM

I have a question for you guys: "knowing now what you do about DLP televisions; will your next TV be DLP, or something else?"

I bought my TV used from a colleague, and have had a fairly good experience with it. Since it is now a few years old, and I'm keeping up to date with the product repair notes that have been stated, I wonder if I shouldn't look elsewhere for my next purchase?

Your comments are appreciated.

That's a very good question...I still think they offer the best bang for the buck...and I have had more or less no trouble with mine, so far. <Knock on wood!> Some other technologies are encroaching on the performance/cost ratio, though, so I'll be looking at all of them carefully. I'll be following the input you get on this question closely.....

Randy

videobruce

10-19-07, 08:48 AM

I'm looking at the LED backlit LCDs.Compare the price of a 56/57" RPTV with the same size flat panel (especially new technologies) and tell us if it is worth it?

teqnikool1

10-19-07, 12:26 PM

Compare the price of a 56/57" RPTV with the same size flat panel (especially new technologies) and tell us if it is worth it?
Forgive my ignorance Mr Videobruce, but have rear projection units gotten to where the picture is as good as DLP or LCD's? Don't laugh, I would rather admit my ignorance than prove it.

I realize many of you guys have forgotten more about the subject than I know.

videobruce

10-19-07, 12:50 PM

but have rear projection units gotten to where the picture is as good as DLPWhat type of TV do you think DLPs' are? :confused:

IFLYSWA

10-19-07, 01:02 PM

What type of TV do you think DLPs' are? :confused:

I'm pretty sure that teqnikool1 is referring to CRT-based RPTVs....pls correct me if I'm wrong....

Randy

teqnikool1

10-19-07, 01:08 PM

What type of TV do you think DLPs' are? :confused:
Dang, I said I didn't want to show my ignorance, and went right ahead and did it anyway!

I was thinking about the old style "big honking bombers" like the first set that I owned several years ago. I keep forgetting that DLP means something like: digital light projector.

Duh ...

Shape

10-19-07, 01:24 PM

My next TV will be a 3 chip 120Hz SXRD. Probably the A3000.

I can't afford a 60" plasma, and I'm not going to go smaller than my 52".

I can't stand the diamond shaped pixels on the latest DLPs. It makes everything fuzzy.

August West

10-19-07, 01:43 PM

I have a question for you guys: "knowing now what you do about DLP televisions; will your next TV be DLP, or something else?"

I bought my TV used from a colleague, and have had a fairly good experience with it. Since it is now a few years old, and I'm keeping up to date with the product repair notes that have been stated, I wonder if I shouldn't look elsewhere for my next purchase?

Your comments are appreciated.

I guess it depends on the timing of the purchase. If my TV got stolen today, for example, I'd get another DLP even with the warts that DLPs have as a technology. If my DLP lasts 5 more years I'd just have to see what state of the art is at that time. In my dreams 3 chip DLPs will become affordable to the average Joe at some point in the future (no rainbows).

Hipnotiq

10-19-07, 02:13 PM

Forgive my ignorance Mr Videobruce, but have rear projection units gotten to where the picture is as good as DLP or LCD's? Don't laugh, I would rather admit my ignorance than prove it.

I realize many of you guys have forgotten more about the subject than I know.
If you meant CRT-RPTV, then they were ALWAYS better then DLP and LCD and Plasma. If you are refering to picture quality.

teqnikool1

10-19-07, 04:12 PM

If you meant CRT-RPTV, then they were ALWAYS better then DLP and LCD and Plasma. If you are refering to picture quality.
I didn't know that either. I swear I have read every page in this thread, and still don't know much about high definition televisions.

I work as an electrical engineer in satellite communications, and actually helped design head end modulators for HDTV; I realize how little I know about the sets; in spite of the fact that I have owned a couple of Mitsubishi televisions.

I will try not to ask too many stupid questions, and truly value the expertise of the members of this forum.

spiff72

10-19-07, 09:28 PM

Dang, I said I didn't want to show my ignorance, and went right ahead and did it anyway!

I was thinking about the old style "big honking bombers" like the first set that I owned several years ago. I keep forgetting that DLP means something like: digital light projector.

Duh ...

Actually - DLP stands for Digital Light Processing. :D

ttenn

10-20-07, 12:33 AM

delar

10-20-07, 12:53 AM

ttenn, I just tried it. Switched "Lock By Time" ON and exited. Went back to check and it's still set ON. I also have to 4.05 firmware, so I don't know why it's not working for you. Sorry.

SK8_MD

10-20-07, 07:15 AM

Compare the price of a 56/57" RPTV with the same size flat panel (especially new technologies) and tell us if it is worth it?

Right now it is not worth it.....to me.... but right now I am happy with my DLP. Now if my DLP would break a year from now and the price of the LED backlit LCDs will be half of what they are now, then it would be worth it, to me.
I remember first looking at the DLPs and wondered why people would spend >$10K for one and my wife now wonders why we spent >$3K for this DLP beast when friends are getting nice sleek plasmas for $1300.
This 'worth' thing is very dynamic and subjective. Like I said, I am 'looking' at the LED-backlit LCDs.

videobruce

10-20-07, 08:10 AM

If you meant CRT-RPTV, then they were ALWAYS better then DLP and LCD and Plasma. If you are refering to picture quality. Only your opinion. I remember first looking at the DLPs and wondered why people would spend >$10K Other than possibly a front projector, I have never saw a DLP RPTV from 2002 on, that sold for more than maybe $4k.

SK8_MD

10-21-07, 09:49 AM

Only your opinion. Other than possibly a front projector, I have never saw a DLP RPTV from 2002 on, that sold for more than maybe $4k.

I think you missed the point.

And I guess I should realize that if 'you never saw' it then I must be mistaken!

videobruce

10-21-07, 10:05 AM

Ok, then what exactly was your point?

tlbowerts

10-21-07, 10:31 AM

Right now it is not worth it.....to me.... but right now I am happy with my DLP. Now if my DLP would break a year from now and the price of the LED backlit LCDs will be half of what they are now, then it would be worth it, to me.
I remember first looking at the DLPs and wondered why people would spend >$10K for one and my wife now wonders why we spent >$3K for this DLP beast when friends are getting nice sleek plasmas for $1300.
This 'worth' thing is very dynamic and subjective. Like I said, I am 'looking' at the LED-backlit LCDs.

And where did you see or read a DLP selling for $10,000?? Any DLP selling for $3000.+ for most part is going to 70"+,and any plasmas selling for $1300. is going to be 50" or less, and low end models, Some care more about PQ, size, what you get for the money, etc, over a nice sleek look!

trapperjohnMD

10-21-07, 01:53 PM

lots of consumers are taken in by the "sleek look" that a plasma or LCD offer.

Mitsubishi's 1st DLP retailed near $10K (WD-65000). But that was in like 2000 or 2001.
I think other Mits and Sonys also retailed for near $5k in the last few years.

but the past is meaningless.

I saw a report that said LCD retail prices dropped 29% from same time last year (mainly due to overstock). I dont know if we can expect the same price drop in 1 year or not, but certainly within the next few years a 60" LCD will be cheaper than a 60" DLP is now.

LCD PQ is rapidly improving as well. I saw 3 the other day that nearly rivaled a CRT RPTV.
However, DLP is also improving. TI has a new chip coming next year. DarkChip or something like that. And no doubt DLP prices will be dropping as well.

spiff72

10-21-07, 02:48 PM

My opinion is that my DLP TV in some ways is better than the two other flat panel LCDs that I have.

I still think that the motion blur on LCDs is distracting. I know that there are 120Hz LCD models out there now, but I haven't had a chance to look at these in person.

Plasma TV's that I have observed seem to do a better job with fast motion, but I hate the glossy screens, since I have a lot of natural and artificial light in the rooms I watch TV in. I also worry about the possibility of burn-in if I hook up the PS3.

I watched the LCD TVs here exclusively for about 4 months, and then went back to watching the Mits again, and I still like the PQ on it. The only downside to it is the rainbow effect. It seems more noticeable to me after the 4 month hiatus.

SK8_MD

10-22-07, 07:16 AM

Ok, then what exactly was your point?

Originally Posted by videobruce:
Compare the price of a 56/57" RPTV with the same size flat panel (especially new technologies) and tell us if it is worth it?

Worth is subjective.
Worth can change with time.

videobruce

10-22-07, 08:01 AM

LCD PQ is rapidly improving as well. I saw 3 the other day that nearly rivaled a CRT RPTV.I don't think any were ever that bad. ;) I still think that the motion blur on LCDs is distracting. I know that there are 120Hz LCD models out there now, but I haven't had a chance to look at these in person. One review of a Sharp 120Hz set, the reviewer stated turning the 120Hz off made no difference in motion blur. He stated that was probably because of the improved panel.

videobruce

10-22-07, 08:03 AM

Worth can change with time. But, we are talking about the present.
Top of the line 56" & 57" DLPs' can be had around $2k. Top of the line LCDs' (of the same size) can be had for $7k, which will drop to possibly $5k by Xmas..

spiff72

10-22-07, 08:54 AM

I don't think any were ever that bad. ;) One review of a Sharp 120Hz set, the reviewer stated turning the 120Hz off made no difference in motion blur. He stated that was probably because of the improved panel.

Does this mean that the motion blur has improved on the 120Hz panels in comparison to the 60Hz ones?

videobruce

10-22-07, 09:20 AM

The review was the Toshiba 46LX177 from 'The Perfect Vision'; I was hard pressed to see any difference in picture quality when I switched ClearFrame on and off, much less an obvious improvement in the detail of fast moving objects.He went on to say; Frankly, motion bluring is not a issue on the Toshiba, something I attribute to the sets CineSpeed LCD panel which has a fast response time of 8ms. Then does that mean panels with a 8ms response time won't benefit from the faster refresh rate?
They also reviewed a Sony XBR4 with a 120Hz refresh rate and had the same comments regarding not noticeing any difference from 60 to 120 Hz except durning some film based material which made fast pans smoother.

Wait a minute, isn't this a Mits RPTV forum?? :eek: :D

HTBruceM

10-22-07, 07:23 PM

I thought the big deal with 120hz panels was really the ability to directly deal with both 30fps (4x) and 24fps (5x) source material. Having the 24fps input support on 120hz panel means you don't have to deal with a bunch of 3:2 pulldown technologies to overcome motion artifacts introduced when converting from 24fps to 30/60fps.

Seems to me the blur associated with LCD technology has more to do with the pixel response time. Obviously a faster pixel response time is needed to reduce the blur.

Or am I missing something?

videobruce

10-23-07, 08:53 AM

Having the 24fps input support on 120hz panel means you don't have to deal with a bunch of 3:2 pulldown technologies to overcome motion artifacts introduced when converting from 24fps to 30/60fps.That is one benefit, though it doesn't seem to be what the manufactures are promoting, probably due to it being too technical for Joe Average to understand.

On paper, a higher refresh rate should reduce motion blur also.

jdwk

10-24-07, 02:33 AM

OK I just ran into a new problem with my WD52725. Couldn't find anything in the thread related. I've had mine hooked up to my HTPC via VGA for almost 4 years. Just last week the screen started flickering (white pixels popping up randomly). Watching movies, it's hardly noticeable but using the internet or IM is downright painful.

I thought maybe my video card or power supply was going, but I just hooked up a laptop to the TV and got the same crappy flickering. What's strange is if I bring up the TV menu or device screen while viewing VGA it flickers as well (the white pixel flickering is visible on the menu) . The menu does not flicker when other sources are selected.

Anyone know what could be causing this? Otherwise I'll be invoking my extended warranty I paid a good chunk for. I primarily bought it because it included 2x bulb replacement, and I haven't even gone through one bulb in four years yet.

delar

10-24-07, 04:02 AM

jdwk

10-24-07, 12:43 PM

Yeah I use displaymate too, that's the best way to set the FINE control on the set, which makes a huge difference on PQ. Since I use it as a PC more than anything, I can't live with the noise. I'll let you know how I get it resolved.

memnoch2

10-24-07, 01:50 PM

Hipnotiq

10-24-07, 03:07 PM

collin

10-24-07, 05:16 PM

first off, thanks to the frequent posters in this thread for getting me this far...

i have a WD-52725 that won't power up and has the blinking green light. So far, I've disassembled the chassis and have access to all the boards. I was actually disappointed that none of the capacitors were obviously swollen...that would have made it easier. However, on closer inspection of the 4 caps on the DM board, while they aren't obviously swollen, they do seem to show some slight "puffiness" on the top 3 "pie sections". Comparing to some other capacitors, the normal ones seems to have completely flat tops, whereas the puffy ones have each pie section slightly rounded. (See pictures linked below)

1139.jpg (http://collin.org/pix/52725/IMG_1139.jpg)
1141.jpg (http://collin.org/pix/52725/IMG_1141.jpg)
1142.jpg (http://collin.org/pix/52725/IMG_1142.jpg)
1143.jpg (http://collin.org/pix/52725/IMG_1143.JPG)
1145.jpg (http://collin.org/pix/52725/IMG_1145.JPG)
1146.jpg (http://collin.org/pix/52725/IMG_1146.JPG)
1147.jpg (http://collin.org/pix/52725/IMG_1147.JPG)

Is this a valid symptom of problem capacitors? BTW, the distorted slides of the cap cylinders is more from lens distortion that reality...they look like nice straight cylinders to my eye, except the puffiness on top.

I also found a couple on the power board that look a bit puffy too. Should I go ahead and replace them too? Also wondering if I should replace any that don't look puffy also?

Can somebody point me towards the correct replacement caps? I looked through the digikey and mouser sites, but I wasn't sure which was the right/best type and what other specs I should account for besides the 1000uF and probably a higher temp rating. Should I stick with the same voltage rating? (16V) And what +/- % tolerance should they be?

Also, are you guys fully reassembling before you test to see if your fix worked? If not, what is the minimal level of reassembly you are using?

Small update: On closer inspection of the other boards, I did locate two caps that were more obviously swollen:

- C8780 330uF 16V 105C TK on the board with the antenna inputs and cable card slot.
- C2M28 1000uF 10V 85C on the board with all the RCA jacks on it.

I noted numerous caps with the slight puffyness I described in my original post on all 4 boards and ordered replacements for everything that looked even slightly suspicious.

I'm wondering if anybody has any thoughts as to whether the two obviously swollen caps might be more likely to cause my blinking green light problem. It seems less likely that the cap on the RCA jacks input board would cause the whole set to fail, where as the one of the antenna board might be a cause.

On the other hand, should I go ahead and replace everything suspicious while I have all the boards out or is "aint' broke, don't fix it" applicable here?

jdwk

10-24-07, 08:30 PM

Good chance the FMT board is defective.

I'll give the service people a call tomorrow and let them know. Thanks for the tip. Kind of glad I bought the warranty now.

garciab

10-24-07, 09:15 PM

Collin,

I'd replace every suspicious cap while it's apart. There's really no telling what they may be doing in their own way. If it's swollen, it's bad.

I was just thinking that it's strange that all these failures are starting to show. Sometimes different symtoms, but seems to me these aging/defective caps may be causing most of the issues. If my set starts acting weird, you can bet the first thing I will look for is swollen caps.

delar

10-25-07, 01:13 AM

i just currently experienced a weird issue as well. for OTA, i am just getting blocks of pixels and choppy audio. for other video sources, i just get a blue screen and jagged circular white lines in the center and no audio. the tv can still render the menu but it flickers... how exactly does a lamp failure exhibit itself? it's just weird because i was watching the tv just the night before and everything was fine... fortunately, i have an extended warranty on the set and have a spare HDTV on another room... but i hope any other part aside the bulb can be fixed or i will lose the ISF calibration :( i don't think this tv is more than 3 years old... (i will try and post a pic later)
Bad cap issue perhaps. Does it look anything like how mine did?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=86304&d=1186021574

Good chance the FMT board is defective.
I wish now I had checked the FMT board for bad caps when I had the chassis out, but at the time I was anxious to get the set back up and running.

noplasma

10-25-07, 03:10 PM

Bad cap issue perhaps. Does it look anything like how mine did?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=86304&d=1186021574

I wish now I had checked the FMT board for bad caps when I had the chassis out, but at the time I was anxious to get the set back up and running.

If you end up needing to replace the 1000 uFs on the FMT board, be sure to use similarly sized caps. There are some tight wires that need to run above that area. If they are disturbed (i.e., pushed against), they won't have adequate length to their connector destination. I learned this the hard way.

memnoch3

10-25-07, 03:24 PM

there might be a conspiracy theory here... it seems like a lot of people are experiencing similar problems to this tv around the 3-yr mark. my tv was actually purchased october 2004 and my tv exhibited the symptom just last weekend! i hope they're just bad caps so it can be replaced and my ISF calibration should remain intact. however, i am not very comfortable soldering them by myself.

lcaillo

10-25-07, 09:00 PM

I suggest checking all of the boards for bad caps and changing any 1000uF and 330uF Jamicon caps. I have found bad ones on DM, Signal, Power Supply, FMT, and Terminal boards.

IFLYSWA

10-27-07, 11:04 AM

Well, my 62725 is scaring me a little now. Yesterday as I was leaving for work I noticed the (green) timer light was blinking. I did a reset on the set, and I could then turn it on. I watched a little on it last night with no problem. This morning, however, I turned on the set and after just a couple of minutes, it shut down and gave me the red light. I reset it, and got the blinking green light again, and couldn't get it to come back on. I tried pressing the Device and Menu buttons to get an error code, but nothing changed. I unplugged the set, cleaned the filter (and it did need it), pulled the lamp out and shook it up, then put it all back together and plugged it back in. It appeared to do a reset, then I was able to power it back on and I've been watching it for a couple of hours now. Anybody have any thoughts on whether or not I need to do anything else at this point? Should I go ahead and replace the lamp? I have an extended warranty, so if it does go out I should be covered, but the warranty doesn't cover lamps. Anyway, I'm just wondering if this sounds entirely like a lamp issue, or if I might be having a board go bad. The swollen caps thing has got me pretty concerned, but I don't want to go poking around inside the set since I have the extended warranty. Any thoughts would be appreciated...thanks!

Randy

PhatJ33pyj

10-31-07, 04:37 PM

I could use some help troubleshooting a problem.

I have a less than 2 yr old wd-62725. The set has very low hours. All of sudden one day the tv lamp won't come on. When we turned the set on, it made a horrible buzzing noise, and nothing. I unplugged it for a day or so. Now, when I turn it on, it has sound, but no picture, then trips the lamp light red.

I bought and replaced the old bulb with a new one. I am still having the same issue.

Any thoughts on where to start?

Thanks,
Eric

spiff72

10-31-07, 06:51 PM

PhatJ33pyj

10-31-07, 07:12 PM

I pulled the power supply board and all the caps looked fine. I will look for the info on the ballast.

Thanks

Rondoid

10-31-07, 11:34 PM

My 62725 is 3 years old now at version 4.05, and I've experience occasional problems with shutdown and system lockup (have to unplug to turn it off). Anyway, it seemed like a good time to check the caps on the power board since eventual failure seems likely. Sure enough, 3 bad caps on the FMT board and 1 on the power board (all 1000uF 16v).

After replacing all 4 caps on the FMT board and plugging all components back in, I powered on and get no picture, just a checkerboard pattern, as previously described in post7248114 (sorry - system doesn't allow me to add a link since I'm new). This is apparently due to a bad FMT board.

I'm confident in the quality of my work, but don't have the ability to do any more in-depth diagnosis/repair. So, I'm now getting it serviced. They didn't have a FMT board and will order one. I didn't get an estimate yet, but the tech though the FMT board would be $350. Is that the real cost?

Anyway, this caps replacement story doesn't have a happy ending - yet.

trapperjohnMD

11-01-07, 01:22 AM

collin

11-02-07, 08:23 PM

Small update: On closer inspection of the other boards, I did locate two caps that were more obviously swollen:

- C8780 330uF 16V 105C TK on the board with the antenna inputs and cable card slot.
- C2M28 1000uF 10V 85C on the board with all the RCA jacks on it.

I noted numerous caps with the slight puffyness I described in my original post on all 4 boards and ordered replacements for everything that looked even slightly suspicious.

I'm wondering if anybody has any thoughts as to whether the two obviously swollen caps might be more likely to cause my blinking green light problem. It seems less likely that the cap on the RCA jacks input board would cause the whole set to fail, where as the one of the antenna board might be a cause.

On the other hand, should I go ahead and replace everything suspicious while I have all the boards out or is "aint' broke, don't fix it" applicable here?

update:

I went ahead and replaced the 2 swollen and numerous "puffy" caps on all the boards except the power supply board. Sadly, when I finally got everything back together, I still get a blinking green light, same as I started with. :(

One question I have is: Is there a cable that plugs into the "PA" socket on the DM board? As I was putting things back together, I could not find any wire that went there. It looks just like the "PF" socket on the same back edge of the DM board. I'm hoping this might explain why I get no joy from this....

Hopefully I didn't mess something up during the soldering process. For some reason the solder was harder to melt and clear cleanly on the signal board. I did basic continuity resistance testing with multimeter after I changed each cap and some of the tougher ones seemed to vary in resistance depending on how I touched the cap's leads so I wasn't sure if I had cold solder joints, but for some it just would not flow nicely no matter how hot or long I heated the leads. Any tips on this?

Somebody also previously suggested checking the power supply test points for proper voltage. I found the test points but did not see any ground reference test point. How should I be measuring? I did try using multimeter with black on a chassis screw and red on a test point. Is this correct? Doing this turned up correct voltages on the +15V and -15V but not on most of the others, but I wanted to find out if I was measuring right before I did more a more systematic investigation into this.

Any other suggestions? I did not change the 4 1000uF caps on the signal board because I ran out of caps and they didn't look in bad shape. There are a few on the power supply board that look suspicious but not obviously swollen.

noplasma

11-05-07, 01:27 PM

One question I have is: Is there a cable that plugs into the "PA" socket on the DM board?

PA is the Power PCB connector of the cable that runs to the optical engine (J9 connector at the other end). It's gotta be somewhere.

Hopefully I didn't mess something up during the soldering process. For some reason the solder was harder to melt and clear cleanly on the signal board.

As long as you feed the lead through the board and create a little solder cone with a base that covers the small metallic circle that the lead pushes through, there shouldn't be continuity issues. If you create a solder sphere, then there may be contact issues. Always strive to "collapse" a solder sphere into a solder cone around the lead.

Somebody also previously suggested checking the power supply test points for proper voltage. I found the test points but did not see any ground reference test point. How should I be measuring?

I actually connected my ground lead to the neutral socket on my power strip external to the TV. I wouldn't recommend using the metal chassis since that could potentially charge up and create a floating reference point.

Any other suggestions?

Get PA connected and then let's go from there.

noplasma

11-05-07, 01:30 PM

I pulled the power supply board and all the caps looked fine. I will look for the info on the ballast.

Thanks

Yep, there's lots of good info on this thread on troubleshooting a red lamp light (mostly in the last 20 pages). Good luck.

Namnar

11-06-07, 12:30 PM

All,

I have the WD 52525, 3 years old this month.

It see's heavy usage - It is my TV, PC monitor, Xbox & Wii monitor.

I've just went through the cap changing exercise, yesterday and it worked for me...

Just as note to above.. My DM board does have an unused connector. It's a 1394 tap to a hard drive that doesn't exist in the TV. See the wiring diagram in the Service manual for help. See below if you need the service manual.

I can send anyone a copy of the service manual for WD XXX25 V-26, + & ++
Send an email to namnar2003@yahoo.com

My original symptoms were either the green blinking light and nothing else or when it would come on, I would get a picture with huge horizontal fluctuations or I would get a blue screen with fuzzy horizontal lines. Thanks to this forum and others I saw that a lot of others had similar symptoms that were fixed by replacing the caps.

All in all I replaced 10 - 4 X 1000uf on the DM , 4 X 1000 on the FMT and 2 X 3300 uf on the PS. The 8 1000 uf were a bit puffier, some more than others but the 2 3300 uf's on the PS were busted and leaking. None of the others really caught my eye but now I see I should have paid closer attention whilst I had it apart... lol

Oh well - It's working again now, very well I might add.. I threw in a mirror cleaning and the dang thing looks good as new... If it fails again I will look for more caps...

Just a note: If you know how to solder, this is the easy part of this repair. It also includes the removal of approx. 7787543255 screws, 6463 harness connectors, a few flex ribbon cables. Some computer repair or maintenance background will also come in very handy. In total, It took me about 6 hours and I've been a Electrical Tech for 20 years. Not in the TV field though...

I just wanna thank you all for all the posts on the cap issue or I would have been the next schmuck to go and spend 100's on a repair.

IFLYSWA

11-06-07, 02:08 PM

I'd just like to verify...if I buy a new lamp from Mitsubishi, I get the lamp, housing, etc...all of it...correct? I see several places to buy the replacement lamp for about $70 cheaper, but they are the lamp only and you have to use your existing housing. I've always intended to buy from Mits when I purchased a replacement, but I guess it can't hurt to consider the other places that are claiming to sell OEM lamps. I would just like to make sure that I get what I need for it to work best for me...any advice would be welcomed...

Thanks,
Randy

SK8_MD

11-06-07, 08:05 PM

Just a note: If you know how to solder, this is the easy part of this repair. It also includes the removal of approx. 7787543255 screws, 6463 harness connectors, a few flex ribbon cables. Some computer repair or maintenance background will also come in very handy. In total, It took me about 6 hours and I've been a Electrical Tech for 20 years. Not in the TV field though...

I didn't count the number of screws but I'll bet your close!
I only had about a dozen left over so I felt good about the job.

SK8_MD

11-06-07, 08:09 PM

Yes, you are correct. The replacement lamp from Mitsubishi is the whole plug-in assembly.. The cube with the lamp, housing, and connector.

IFLYSWA

11-06-07, 09:02 PM

Yes, you are correct. The replacement lamp from Mitsubishi is the whole plug-in assembly.. The cube with the lamp, housing, and connector.

Thanks...I appreciate the info!

Randy

SgtPepper133

11-07-07, 04:26 PM

Ok you guys might get me back into this yet! The F9A03 looks blown. testing it simply with an ohm meter doesnt give that exact result. Resistance changes but its similar to what I was getting on the 06 and it was blown. I will try and pickup some glass fuses. That has been my frustration I just finally got the 105 Caps I needed today so lead time for troubleshooting is slow. Again wont be able to look at it until Thursday. Ill try and pickup where I left off Thursday maybe!

Well just wanted to update and thank everyone that helped. My TV is back up and running. I ended up getting a whole new powerboard and that fixed the problem. So, Now I guess I just wait for the Caps on the other boards to die so I can start all over. Again THANKS to everyone for the help.

--Greg

spiff72

11-07-07, 09:10 PM

I turned on the TV tonight, and no picture. After a minute or two, I got the Red Lamp LED of Death (and this lamp is about 3 months old).

As much as I want to tear open the TV and look for bad caps, I don't want to tear into a TV that is still covered by the extended warranty I paid good money for!

I just hope they don't tell me that they already replaced one lamp, and won't cover another one. (Especially since this is unlikely to actually be the lamp). Do you think they will make me buy a replacement lamp out of my own pocket before they will admit it is more than the lamp? The warranty is from Best Buy.

Edit: The TV was purchased in August 2004 (and was manufactured in July 2004).

Thanks!

delar

11-07-07, 11:22 PM

Daniel Murray

11-08-07, 08:12 AM

They should recall and fix these TV. We all spent very good Money on them. Not like the new much cheaper set that are out now. When my set goes through what you guys are going through I might not fix it. Trust me I can fix it. But when a company will not return phone calls or emails what dose that say about them. I have had one Mitsubishi gone back because they could not fix it. That is how I got this set and now it seems like it has more bugs than a bug farm. LOL I wish we all have a leg to stand on and to get Mitsubishi to make good on the Lemons they put out on the market!!
Daniel

collin

11-08-07, 06:52 PM

One question I have is: Is there a cable that plugs into the "PA" socket on the DM board? As I was putting things back together, I could not find any wire that went there. It looks just like the "PF" socket on the same back edge of the DM board. I'm hoping this might explain why I get no joy from this....

PA is the Power PCB connector of the cable that runs to the optical engine (J9 connector at the other end). It's gotta be somewhere.

Get PA connected and then let's go from there.

Ok, I took time today to seriously look for that connector and it is nowhere to be found. I took the chassis most of the way apart and went through all the wires to see if it was buried in the wire bundles but could not find it anywhere. I followed the bundles back towards the light engine to see if it was in there but still nothing.

I then checked the photos I took prior to disassembly and found one that shows the PA connector with no wire going to it. Also, on the V26 Chassis Replacement manual (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=6MKC3A3V) page 3 of the ASSY-PWB-DM Replacement procedure, step 15, it says "Disconnect 2 connectors (PF, KT)" and does not mention PA and the picture does not show anything coming from where PA is located (although the connector itself is obscured by the E2P PWB module).

I would love for this to be the smoking gun standing between me and a working unit but I'm at a loss as to where else I could look for this connector or even if it actually exists on the WD-52725. So, given all that, can anybody confirm for sure whether there is supposed to be a wire going into the PA connector?

JoeC4745

11-08-07, 07:13 PM

page 3 of the ASSY-PWB-DM Replacement procedure, step 15, it says "Disconnect 2 connectors (PF, KT)" and does not mention PA and the picture does not show anything coming from where PA is located (although the connector itself is obscured by the E2P PWB module).

I just looked at my 62725 which is apart waiting for a DM board. I can't see what it is labeled but there is a 4 pin connector where you mention and there is nothing connected.

noplasma

11-08-07, 07:30 PM

I would love for this to be the smoking gun standing between me and a working unit but I'm at a loss as to where else I could look for this connector or even if it actually exists on the WD-52725. So, given all that, can anybody confirm for sure whether there is supposed to be a wire going into the PA connector?

Based on Joe's note, it sounds like the empty socket is normal. Have you checked all the voltage supply test points on the power board yet? (5V TP, 3.3V TP, etc) I'm still wondering if you have the same problem Joe does.

If there are no obvious indicators (missing supply voltage, swollen capacitor, etc), then you may be stuck needing to replace the DM board. From what I've read, I believe that's the primary candidate for the endlessly blinking green light.

spiff72

11-08-07, 07:58 PM

spiff, my set is of the same vintage. I ultimately experienced the exact same symptom last month. I bet you dollars to donuts that your power board caps are bad. As far as Mits is concerned, surely they are aware of the caps issue by now and the related symptoms/failures. I don't think they will make you buy a new lamp to try first. Of course, this is Mits, so anything is possible.

I should have clarified better that my extended warranty is through Best Buy. My understanding is that they only cover one bulb replacement, so this is why I am concerned. I suspect that they might just play the "lets replace the ballast" game, and then find that doesn't help, and then replace the light engine, and then replace something else hoping they find it by dumb luck. I don't think some of the technicians they send are really good at troubleshooting.

collin

11-08-07, 10:57 PM

Based on Joe's note, it sounds like the empty socket is normal. Have you checked all the voltage supply test points on the power board yet? (5V TP, 3.3V TP, etc) I'm still wondering if you have the same problem Joe does.

If there are no obvious indicators (missing supply voltage, swollen capacitor, etc), then you may be stuck needing to replace the DM board. From what I've read, I believe that's the primary candidate for the endlessly blinking green light.

ok, i guess I'm ready to do some testing on the voltage supply test points now. so, I should put the black of my multimeter into the ground of a power strip that the tv is plugged into and then measure the test points with the red, correct?

surfengine

11-09-07, 12:23 AM

ok, i guess I'm ready to do some testing on the voltage supply test points now. so, I should put the black of my multimeter into the ground of a power strip that the tv is plugged into and then measure the test points with the red, correct?

no!!
you need to use the TV AC ground. AKA HOT GROUND

noplasma

11-09-07, 01:20 PM

no!!
you need to use the TV AC ground. AKA HOT GROUND

Wouldn't these DC voltage rails on the secondary side of the power PCB be tied to DC (cold) ground? The test points are on the "cold" side of the hot/cold line on the PCB.

I personally used the neutral socket on my external power strip as reference ground for making measurements and didn't have any issues. If that makes you uncomfortable, then you could use one of the ground pins on the power PCB supply connectors (e.g., pin 3 of connector PA).

noplasma

11-09-07, 01:24 PM

My understanding is that they only cover one bulb replacement, so this is why I am concerned.

Maybe if you show them a few of the pictures of swollen/leaking caps that have been posted here (and tell them that many of the regulars of this forum are having this exact issue), that'll get their attention.

Hipnotiq

11-09-07, 02:20 PM

Wouldn't these DC voltage rails on the secondary side of the power PCB be tied to DC (cold) ground? The test points are on the "cold" side of the hot/cold line on the PCB.

I personally used the neutral socket on my external power strip as reference ground for making measurements and didn't have any issues. If that makes you uncomfortable, then you could use one of the ground pins on the power PCB supply connectors (e.g., pin 3 of connector PA).
I think its ok if you are using an isolation transformer.

noplasma

11-09-07, 04:08 PM

I think its ok if you are using an isolation transformer.

If your concern is safety, I don't think he needs an isolation transformer here. The TV is already isolated from wall socket current by its input transformer -- and the DMM will be very high impedance.

collin

11-09-07, 04:30 PM

ok, so what is the conclusion for where the ground reference should be taken?? :|

JoeC4745

11-09-07, 06:26 PM

ok, so what is the conclusion for where the ground reference should be taken?? :|

Since you are checking voltages on the cold side of the supply then the ground reference is cold ground for which you can use any point of the metal chassis.

Hipnotiq

11-09-07, 06:59 PM

are guys talking about cold side measurements?
I misunderstood. I thought you were taking measurements on the live side...

collin

11-12-07, 04:46 AM

Daniel Murray

11-12-07, 07:21 AM

I would replace any caps that look like they are leaking or swollen.

noplasma

11-12-07, 10:32 AM

Hopefully I got them all. From the looks of this, my 3.3V, 5V and 12V supplies are bad. Do you think anything would be gained by changing caps on the power supply board?

That's what I feared... those are the same symptoms that Joe reported.

To summarize what's happening -- you verified that your standby power is working. But when you start your TV, your "switched" power isn't coming on. This is supposed to happen when the TV microprocessor drives one of its pins high (PON-2) -- but something early in the boot cycle is likely hanging the microprocessor.

If you read the last few pages of posts on this thread, Joe tried a number of troubleshooting steps to pinpoint the problem -- all came back "negative". Now he's in the process of replacing his DM board (they were back-ordered... we should be hearing his results any day now). The theory is that DM is hanging up the microprocessor early in the startup cycle.

So if I were you, I'd wait a few more days to see what Joe's results are. If the DM board replacement does the trick, then work with a local repair shop to replace that board (it would be a lot cheaper and quicker than replacing the whole chassis, which is badly back-ordered).

Of course, keep in mind there's a little risk that you have a different problem than Joe (corrupted EEPROM, leaky part on the power switch, etc). If you don't like taking chances, then you might want to just pay to have the entire electrical chassis replaced. This is a tough problem to troubleshoot since a number of things could potentially hang the microprocessor.

noplasma

11-12-07, 11:13 AM

I went ahead and replaced the 2 swollen and numerous "puffy" caps on all the boards except the power supply board. Sadly, when I finally got everything back together, I still get a blinking green light, same as I started with. :(
...

There are a few on the power supply board that look suspicious but not obviously swollen.

Sounds like you've done due diligence with the caps. I don't think the "not obviously swollen" caps on the power board would cause the microprocessor to lock up.

noplasma

11-12-07, 02:08 PM

Here are the results of my voltage tests

I just received a PM from yet another person experiencing the same issue. That's case #3 on this forum, which suggests this may be potentially yet another widespread (but latent) defect. I don't think swollen caps are causing this.

For any techs or lurkers working on this, JoeC provided me the following additional details:

"I did a little more checking and found that the data line to the Term2 PWB was sending repeated data pulses so I looked into it. I found that the reset pin on the IC of the Term2 board was held low in a reset state. A little further checking found that it was held low from the signal board (CPU?) It is fed from connector TG pin 24 labeled 3DRST.

I also found after the set boots if you do a manual reset the set doesn't boot. Just the continuous blinking green light like the bad caps on the DM. Makes more hopeful that the DM board will do it!"

Hopefully someone can figure this out since there's currently no confirmed fix (beyond replacing the entire electrical chassis).

wht180

11-12-07, 06:55 PM

I'm number 3 on this issue.

My voltage readings were:
TP12v = 0v
TP10v = 0v
TP3.3v = 0v
TP-15v = -16.7v
TP+15v = +16.7v
TP12vs = 12.1v
TP30vs = 30.2v
TP6vs = 6.9v
TP5v = .8

No voltage to F9A07 or F9A09.

How much was that DM board? and how much should I expect to pay for a power board if that is it?...... With my limmited trouble shooting experience, That seems to be the problem.

I un-plugged all the cables except the power lines and got the same readings..... But if this PS is like a computer and waiting for a signal coming from somewhere else..... then that makes a ton of sense..... in calling the DM board if it acts as a mother board.

Thanks for the help guys.... until a few minutes ago I was in the "I'm parting out this P.O.S." mode. One thing is for sure. I will never promote Mitsu TV's to anyone who asks.

noplasma

11-13-07, 05:14 PM

How much was that DM board? and how much should I expect to pay for a power board if that is it?...... With my limmited trouble shooting experience, That seems to be the problem.

JoeC said he paid $298 for his. You need to work with a Mits-authorized servicer and return your old board to Mits in order to get that rate.

It does seem like the most common fix for the "blinking green light" problem has been to replace the DM board. Good luck. Please post your outcome.

JoeC4745

11-14-07, 06:04 PM

I just received a PM from yet another person experiencing the same issue. That's case #3 on this forum, which suggests this may be potentially yet another widespread (but latent) defect. I don't think swollen caps are causing this.

Now I don't feel so alone:) Heard from the servicer yesterday and the DM board didn't ship last Thursday. Mits now says it will ship tomorrow??? I'm not holding my breath........

A little further checking found that it was held low from the signal board (CPU?) It is fed from connector TG pin 24 labeled 3DRST.

Just to let you know, I was able to remove just pin 24 so that all other connections on TG were still connected. 3DRST was high on the TERM2 side and low on the SIGNAL board side.

JoeC4745

11-14-07, 06:33 PM

I'm number 3 on this issue.

My voltage readings were:
TP12v = 0v
TP10v = 0v
TP3.3v = 0v
TP-15v = -16.7v
TP+15v = +16.7v
TP12vs = 12.1v
TP30vs = 30.2v
TP6vs = 6.9v
TP5v = .8

Mine were/are exactly the same, the switched voltages will come up if I apply a high to turn on the supply.

Does your set complete the initial boot cycle and turn on the power LED if you press power?

That .8V on TP5V made me wonder why it's not 0V when the supply is switched off. Anyone know if this is normal on a working set??

wht180

11-14-07, 11:32 PM

Okay, we give up....

I'm not sure if anyone has use for or wants any parts from our Mitsubishi WD-62525. Our Power board seems to be bad, and we aren't able to get our hands on another, without paying a tech to trouble shoot what we have already done and then pay for the part. We've decided it's just easier to invest our time and money elsewhere. If your interested in any items from our set, I guess PM me and we can work something out (we'll hold on to the set for a little bit and if there is no response, we'll be getting rid of it.)

Wazzey

11-15-07, 09:22 AM

dssturbo1

11-15-07, 09:57 AM

sorry you guys are having the more major problems. i'm just having the usual, lamp blew last night watching tv. It's a little over 2 and 1/2 years old and this is the third lamp. Went the cheaper? route this time and just ordered a lamp without the housing off ebay $144 with next day shipping (it better get here Friday!). Thankfully, not totally without a tv in the house since I had just bought a new Pioneer Kuro Elite PRO150FD plasma. So the mits is gonna get alot more rest, it's been a pretty good display except for the lamps and the mirror needing cleaning.

dssturbo1

11-15-07, 10:04 AM

collin

11-15-07, 07:01 PM

Here are the results of my voltage tests:

TP3.3V = 0.0
TP5V = 0.83
TP6VS = 7.1
TP12V = 0.02
TP12VS = 12.2
TP+15V = 16.02
TP-15V = -16.0
TP30VS = 30.1

Hopefully I got them all. From the looks of this, my 3.3V, 5V and 12V supplies are bad. Do you think anything would be gained by changing caps on the power supply board?

Since I'd already ordered additional caps before the more recent posts on this thread, I went ahead and changed basically all the caps on the cold side of the power supply board and a bunch more that I hadn't gotten to on the signal board as well. End result: no change. the only thing i can say is that my soldering skills have gotten better and I can now disassemble and reassemble the chassis without looking at the service manual. :(

like wht180, i don't really think investing any more time or money into this is warranted, given that current model 1080 dlp's are approaching the $1000 mark. any ideas on what to do with this thing?

Daniel Murray

11-15-07, 07:55 PM

Target practice

IFLYSWA

11-15-07, 08:15 PM

If any of you guys that are giving up on these sets (and I can't say I blame you, by the way) have a newish lamp and housing that you'd want to sell kind of on the cheap, let me know. I am a bit hesitant to buy a new one for fear that I might end up having the same problems everyone else is...I have been pretty lucky to date (KNOCK ON WOOD!). Anyway, just thought I would throw it out there....

Of course, the next big question is where to turn next time around. I love the picture on the Mits, but you can't ignore the problems that have cropped up and the terrible customer service they've shown. Even with prices being so reasonable compared to what I paid for this set, I am not that anxious to start trying to decide which technology to chase, and within which brands....ugh.

Thanks,
Randy

Wazzey

11-15-07, 09:50 PM

hey wazzey here are a couple page and post # to help with the cleaning.

i used Spiff's info on page 95 post #2838 and ironhorse's from page 141 post 4222

Thanks for the reply... i hope I don't screw something up

technoholic

11-15-07, 11:35 PM

My TV is still working after the power board caps replaced, but my faint scrolling diagonal lines are getting worse. It seems to be heat related: as the longer the Tv is on the worse they get. It's strange that it only happens on the analog inputs and not on HDMI.
I've tried every possible combination of cables and components hooked up and unhooked, but the lines are there from any source hooked into component or composite connections.
I think i'm going to tear into the TV again and try to get to the Dm board and check the capacitors. I'm hoping that they are the culprit and are letting a little AC voltage leak into the DC circuits.
Unfortunately, the service manual doesn't explain how to get this board out; but, if i break it, then i'll have the excuse i need to Buy a new set and it will not be a MITSUSHITI.
I'm also still waiting for Mitsu parts to issue a credit for the lamp i returned to them a month ago. I called them today and they said they were backlogged and it would be another 2 weeks before they can test the lamp i returned and issue a credit.
I hope that everyone on this forum with these TV's and the bad capacitor problems will post so we can keep track of failure rate of 3 year old sets. I smell a class action lawsuit if Mitsu doesn't issue a recall!
Howdy, can you tell me what you found with those diagonal lines? My Mitsu 52725 (purchased Aug. 2004) has started displaying such lines from component connected sources. The cable STB still delivers excellent HD but all non-HD channels are increasingly plagued by scrolling, (sometimes not so) faint diagonal lines. The problem is present on the SD TIVO input also. The same thing now appears when playing DVDs which previously were crisp and clean, almost as good as HD content. I haven't changed any cables and the mirrors and lens are squeaky clean. Any insights are much appreciated.

noplasma

11-15-07, 11:58 PM

like wht180, i don't really think investing any more time or money into this is warranted, given that current model 1080 dlp's are approaching the $1000 mark. any ideas on what to do with this thing?

If you've got extra room in your basement, you might try setting the TV aside for a few weeks or months. It's possible that someone on the forum may figure what's causing this problem, especially if it turns out to be widespread. I know that if this happens to my TV, I'll take a shot at working on it. Joe has already blazed quite a trail with his analysis.

If Joe confirms the issue is the DM board, then it might be worth waiting to see if one appears on ebay. If you could get a used board for $100, I bet you could then resell the TV locally for $600 or $700...maybe more if you find a motivated buyer.

collin

11-18-07, 05:53 AM

the only thing i can say is that my soldering skills have gotten better...

ok, some redeeming value: a friend recently had a power surge and it blew something in their 19" LCD computer monitor. since I had a e-recycling pickup happening in my neighborhood, I took the monitor she was going to trash to put for recycling. tonight, I decided to have a quick look inside and-- you guessed it-- found a bunch of obviously swollen caps. but...where to get replacements at this time and hour without spending more money on a wild goose chase? hey, my table is littered with caps removed from the Mitsubishi. sorting through those turned up two of the correct value and in good looking condition. found two more new ones in the extra replacements that didn't get used for the Mits. Using my newfound cap-desoldering and replacement skills, the task was a piece of cake on the sparse and wide-pitch power supply board from the monitor. Quick plug-in test: IT WORKS! so at least I can feel I got something out of this experience. :) maybe a bit of a taste of what I wanted to feel if the Mits had fired back up... :(

now the dilemma: since the monitor was effectively trash to my friend, but I fixed it, do I have to tell them or give it back?!?! ;)

noplasma

11-18-07, 09:19 AM

now the dilemma: since the monitor was effectively trash to my friend, but I fixed it, do I have to tell them or give it back?!?! ;)

Hehe, tough one. Since they threw it away, I'd say technically it's yours. But if it's a good friend who would eventually notice the monitor in your house and might be miffed that you kept it, then you might give it back as a token of friendship.

It *is* a great feeling to fix something successfully, so I'm glad at least something positive has come out of the whole rotten TV experience.

After fixing my TV, I then found swollen caps in my wife's computer power supply (5 of them). Then last week, I found 3 swollen caps on my Dell motherboard. This is definitely a ubiquitous problem.

lcaillo

11-18-07, 10:15 AM

As a service tech, there are two problems that are by far more common than all others these days. One is bad solder connections, the other is bad caps. It seems that many capacitors are not lasting as expected. I suspect a lot of the problem is the use of lower cost vendors for parts and components of parts.

Daniel Murray

11-18-07, 10:52 AM

Icaillo, I am with you. I have a one year old Maytag Refrigerator that had four bad caps in it in less than one year. The service guy told me was he has more work now that he is finding more and more China parts being put in appliances. He all so said to me in the past he had just him and his son as repairman. Now he has six more working for him!!! His biggest repairs problems are in the HD TV market and he is looking for more to hire just so he can try to keep up.

FlaHP

11-18-07, 07:01 PM

iSean

11-19-07, 11:28 PM

Am getting vertical rolling waves on some programs but not all... is that a sign its getting ready to die? Or is there an easy fix.... looked through here in the past and found a good description on how to take it apart and clean the mirrors but couldn't find it last night. I haven't cleaned it since I've had it.... Now I'm kinda scared to touch it since its still working at least
52525

I have rolling vertical lines on my 52525 too.
I have the Best Buy 4 year extended warranty for my 52525. I called in early September and they sent someone come over to look at it. They ordered a part. A formatter or DM board. Two weeks later, the service tech shows up to replace a board, clean the mirrors and left. That didn't fix it. Lines are still there. :(
I have been calling BB warranty every week and complaining since September and I can't get anyone to fix or replace my tv at all. :mad:
I have at least 2 years left on my warranty and I would hate to fix this myself. What should I do?

rknott

11-20-07, 01:43 AM

I am sure this has been covered in this thread somewhere, but I have been reading posts both here and on the internet for a couple of hours and can't seem to find the answer.

I am going to get a new lamp and I am thinking I will skip the housing but I don't see anywhere on what people are doing with the paper that wraps around the lamp. Cut it? get a new one with a lamp? I am afraid I am going to burn something!

While I am asking I am seeing some saying that Phillips is OEM and others say OSRAM. I have an OSRAM, but it was put in by a service guy on a warranty call. So I am not totally sure it is OEM. (I can't get GE to give me another bulb even though I was supposed to have 5 years of bulbs, warranty through Good Guys).

noplasma

11-20-07, 08:29 AM

I have rolling vertical lines on my 52525 too. I have at least 2 years left on my warranty and I would hate to fix this myself. What should I do?

If you have the EW, I definitely wouldn't recommend working on it yourself. They need to either fix it or give you a new TV. What are they trying next?

Do you still get the wavy lines when using the VGA input (PC in)?

iSean

11-20-07, 02:40 PM

If you have the EW, I definitely wouldn't recommend working on it yourself. They need to either fix it or give you a new TV. What are they trying next?

Do you still get the wavy lines when using the VGA input (PC in)?

I have the xbox 360 hooked up to the VGA and it has the wavy lines.

All the Components, s-videos, composites, VGA connections have wavy lines.
The HDMI port is perfectly fine. No wavy lines at all.

delar

11-20-07, 10:45 PM

I reported seeing wavy lines on the VGA input a few weeks ago. Difference between me and iSean is I only see them on this input and the lines are not nearly as bad as what's shown in those pictures. Still, when I'm streaming HD from the PC, they are quite distracting and make for an unpleasant viewing experience.

Not sure if bad caps on the FMT board would cause what I'm seeing. I'll have to check them, though, after I eliminate my PC as the source of the lines.

chadiswar

11-21-07, 01:10 PM

Hello. Boy am I glad I looked on this forum. I sold my 52525 to my brother back in Jan, and sure enough, in July it started having the issues with a glowing blue bulb. Well he held on to - unusable of course - and I can see now it is worth looking at to replace the capacitors.

My question is what are the part numbers for the different capacitors to be replaced? Should I just look at replacing all of them or are their specific ones to start with. I have seen some different numbers like 1000uf but didn't know what that was specific for.

Also, are they all located on the DM board?

Thank everyone for all of the information. I am actually excited to be attempting to fix this TV so my guilt for selling it to him can be removed.

noplasma

11-21-07, 02:01 PM

I have the xbox 360 hooked up to the VGA and it has the wavy lines.

All the Components, s-videos, composites, VGA connections have wavy lines.
The HDMI port is perfectly fine. No wavy lines at all.

Probably a FMT board issue based on what you describe.

noplasma

11-21-07, 02:03 PM

in July it started having the issues with a glowing blue bulb.

I'm not familiar with the "glowing blue bulb" symptom.. could you describe this further?

chadiswar

11-21-07, 02:51 PM

I'm not familiar with the "glowing blue bulb" symptom.. could you describe this further?

This what my screen looks like on all inputs. What happened?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=86303&d=1186021077

This is what it looks like. I called a "glowing blue blub". Eventually this dimmed and was much more faint.

Thanks,

Chad

Wazzey

11-21-07, 07:08 PM

Here are some pics of my dirty mirror. Now all I have to do is figure out why I get waves in my picture sometimes. The waves start and stop... they aren't continuous.

http://mcdonaldgolfcourse.com/TV/1.jpg

Here is a pic of what it looks like with part of it dirty and part of it clean.
http://mcdonaldgolfcourse.com/TV/2.jpg

Is there any possibility that the fan under the lamp is just getting old and oscillating?

Thanks dssturbo1 for pointing me in the right direction and ironhorse for doing a great job in step by step instruction. The picture is incredibly more bright and colorful even if I get waves in it sometimes. I forgot what a beautiful picture this tv makes.

mzorola

11-22-07, 12:30 AM

I too had wavy lines on my 62525. I opened the chassis and found several bad caps. I replaced 4 on the DM board, 4 on the FMT board, and 2 on the TERM-2 board. I am unable to see if my wavy lines are gone because my TV sufferes from the BLINKING GREEN light of death. I was hoping the CAPS would solve that problem too. Long story short--I sent both the Power and DM board to PTSCORP for a rebuild. I will let you'all know what happens.

Wazzey

11-22-07, 12:34 AM

Have got LOTR in High Def recorder on mydish sat and watched it after i cleaned it and loved how the color looked... but as reported I had waves going across it when I watched.... NOW, I've turned it back on before going to bed and the picture is perfect... no waves at all... For at least a good 20 minutes or so far.. why would it go from wavy to perfect picture? Any ideas? Just the caps?

mzorola

11-22-07, 01:08 AM

My TV acted the same way. Some times the waves were worse than others. I suspected my reciever, then my DVD player, then my cables, then finally the TV. I believe it is the caps since they are sensitive to tempature and I think that explains the inconsistencies in the wave intensities. Considering the number of caps that were "puffy"--I would expect some degradation in video processing.

delar

11-22-07, 02:15 AM

I hope you're right. I just pulled the FMT board and found the four 1000 uf caps on it visibly puffy. They weren't grossly swollen like those I found on the power board, but they might be degraded enough to cause the faint wavy lines I see on the VGA input. And yes, these lines would roll and phase in and out. If replacement of the caps doesn't fix it, I'll be shopping for a replacement set.

Wazzey, did you replace the caps or are you saying that all you did was clean the mirror and the waves have disappeared?

Wazzey

11-22-07, 08:56 AM

No, I didn't do anything to the caps. I was just noticing how the picture was perfect last night before bed in hopes that it was something simple, like interference from the sub or speakers or internal fans.... It must have to do with the period of time that the tv is on.
But yes the rolling waves came back.

mzorola

11-22-07, 02:13 PM

delar,

Check the caps on the TERM-2 board. They are 10v 1000uf caps but I understand you can use your 16v 1000uf caps if you have extras. The caps on my board were a little puffy. Let me know if this clears up your wavy lines.

noplasma

11-22-07, 04:24 PM

This is what it looks like. I called a "glowing blue blub". Eventually this dimmed and was much more faint.

Ahh... gotcha. That issue is caused by two swollen 3300 uF's on the power board. There's lots of good info on this thread.

delar

11-23-07, 12:22 AM

mzorola, the two 10v 1000 uf caps on the Term-2 board look ok; no visible swelling. The only input I'm having trouble with is the VGA, and it appears that the VGA signal doesn't go anywhere but through the FMT board before heading out the DVI to the optical engine. The problem has to be with the formatter board.

mzorola

11-23-07, 09:42 AM

Makes sense. I hope this clears up the issue. It will give me hope of getting rid of my wavy lines. I only hope that I can get past the blinking green light issue. I'd hate to have to toss this set out with the trash!

dnslammers

11-23-07, 05:49 PM

I've got diagonal wavy lines when I use components and watching 480p on my 52525. It happens with my DVD player and my cable box.

If I watch a program in HD there's no lines. If I switch my cable to HDMI on my cable box I don't have wavy lines.

I'm having a tech come out next week. Could someone take a picture of these swollen capacitors that your all taking about. When the tech comes out I'd like to look over his shoulder and see if that might be the problem.

thanks!
Stephen

delar

11-23-07, 09:34 PM

Okay, replacement of the 4 caps on the FMT board did not fix the lines on the VGA input. In fact, it looks worse now. Quite unwatchable.

One thing of interest, however. I'm seeing the lines on the analog inputs only (Component, VGA). The digital inputs do not have this problem (HDMI, Firewire). The lines on the Component input are exactly like those in the picture posted a page or two ago. The reason I never noticed before is because I haven't used that input in 6 months. I only noticed it today when I went to check the operation of the input after reassembly (mistake on my part, should have checked Comp input before attempting repair of FMT board).

So, in conclusion....

1. Wavy lines seen on analog inputs only. Digital inputs clean.

2. Replacement of caps on FMT board does not correct problem.

3. VGA & Component rendered useless. Washed out pic on HDMI (uncorrectable). Great pic on firewire, but no cable box OSD.

So, unless someone comes up with a cheap and quick fix.....

4. Purchase of replacement TV in near future (non-Mits).