Mitsubishi WD XX725 owners thread [Text View] - Page 21

dssturbo1

12-01-07, 12:40 PM

I am sure this has been covered in this thread somewhere, but I have been reading posts both here and on the internet for a couple of hours and can't seem to find the answer.

I am going to get a new lamp and I am thinking I will skip the housing but I don't see anywhere on what people are doing with the paper that wraps around the lamp. Cut it? get a new one with a lamp? I am afraid I am going to burn something!

While I am asking I am seeing some saying that Phillips is OEM and others say OSRAM. I have an OSRAM, but it was put in by a service guy on a warranty call. So I am not totally sure it is OEM. (I can't get GE to give me another bulb even though I was supposed to have 5 years of bulbs, warranty through Good Guys).

my wd 62525 original lamp with housing and the first replacement lamp with housing I bought from mits usa were both Osram with Germany stamped under the Osram logo. The original lasted 8900 hours and the second lasted approx ~6500 hours.

I just bought a lamp only off ebay and it was an Osram but had P.R.C. under the Osram logo, guessing that is Peoples Republic of China, so either Osram has a plant there now or it is a fake?? anyway it did install just fine, the seller said to just cut away the paper and disgard it as it wasn't needed. He shipped it out one day and was very easy to deal with. I reinstalled the lamp wth housing back in the mits dlp and works just fine so far.

verti89

12-01-07, 01:12 PM

thanks for your help. and yes I do have one HDMI input.

noplasma

12-03-07, 04:45 PM

The soldering and positioning of the caps are good. I looked at the signal path chart in the manual and I can't say for sure where the problem lies. If I had to guess, I'd still say the formatter board and not the Term-2 board only because the VGA doesn't appear to have anything to do with the Term-2 board (unlikely, but it could be two seperate problems). I'll wait a bit for a fix, if one is forthcoming.

I wonder if it's a bad solder joint somewhere that was further "opened" during the vibrations of the cap repair effort. Based on what you describe, it seems like the defect is likely in the SIG SEL. to FMT DRV section of the flow diagram since both component and VGA are affected (and there must be at least two isolated paths through those chips since the firewire is ok). For those several ICs, perhaps you could try resoldering the pins? (especially ground) If you have a oscilloscope, you might be able to isolate where this ac noise originates.

delar

12-03-07, 09:20 PM

I wonder if it's a bad solder joint somewhere that was further "opened" during the vibrations of the cap repair effort. Based on what you describe, it seems like the defect is likely in the SIG SEL. to FMT DRV section of the flow diagram since both component and VGA are affected (and there must be at least two isolated paths through those chips since the firewire is ok). For those several ICs, perhaps you could try resoldering the pins? (especially ground) If you have a oscilloscope, you might be able to isolate where this ac noise originates.
Thanks for your input. I should correct myself to say that there was no change in the status of the distortion after I replaced the caps. I don't have a working scope atm and I don't feel up to pulling it all apart again to test. Since a few other people are experiencing the same problem, I'll wait until one of them reports back with a fix, then decide a course of action. Thanks again.

mzorola

12-05-07, 12:24 AM

delar

12-05-07, 02:01 AM

I did, and it remains an option, though r/t shipping costs from my location could be almost half the cost of the chassis rebuild. At the very least, I hope to confirm that the problem is indeed with the formatter board. I can then decide to either have it repaired (and be without a TV for a few weeks) or buy a new board (and invest good money in a repair instead a replacement set). Even better would be to learn exactly what component is failing in the hopes that I can fix it myself........assuming, of course, that all the wavy line issues are caused by the same failing component (very likely imo).

IronHorse

12-05-07, 11:00 PM

Well, I've had a kind of nuisance problem that I've lived with for several months. My set will power on, I hear fans going, the voice comes on, but no picture. I found that unplugging the set for 15 minutes would often get it working on the next power-up, but its been 4 days now and I can't get any picture. The lamp is a few months old, maybe 100 hours or so on it, and the lamp light is not coming on. When it was on Sunday... the picture was brilliant, just the way its been all along.

My guess is that there's some sort of control module inside there that analyzes the bulb, the fans and some other stuff and its probably screwed up because sometimes I think I hear multiple fans, other times one fan. Also, I've tried resetting, just got the latest firmware a month or so ago (my dealer's suggestion), and now I'm out of home-fixes. I have a call in to my dealer, who had indicated when I saw him a month or so ago that if the problem didn't go away with the firmware upgrade... he'd set up something with the local service guys who handle my warranty.

Just curious if anyone has had similar experiences and fixes?

noplasma

12-06-07, 10:11 AM

Just curious if anyone has had similar experiences and fixes?

I haven't heard of this before (and I've done a good bit of reading of the various forums). Are all the LEDs nominal? (i.e., no blinking green status light or red lamp light)

IronHorse

12-06-07, 10:29 AM

HTBruceM

12-07-07, 08:51 AM

Looks like I've been bit by the infamous capacitor defect. Couple questions for the group:

1) Is it necessary to replace ALL the capacitors on all boards from that vendor? Just wondering if the non-swollen caps are going to degrade... Has anyone had to go back in for a 2nd round of capacitor replacement?

2) What qty and sizes/values need to be replaced? I'd like to go buy them before I rip apart the TV. I've heard 1000uf and 3300uf at 10v or higher.... but no total quantities.

Edit: Well, after looking thru my paperwork, looks like I bit on the 5 yr in-home warranty w/loaner from Frys. So maybe I'll just let somebody else do the repair... Finally, one of those dang warranties pays off...

noplasma

12-07-07, 03:10 PM

If I shut it down and pull the plug, the reset (green) led starts flashing for maybe 2-3 minutes then cancels out. I can still hear fan(s) running. If I power on without waiting say... 5 minutes, then the red lamp light comes on. And thats happened even when a subsequent cool-down was run/observed and then re-powered and most of the time the set goes on and the lamp is fine. I seriously doubt it's the lamp because when it does go on the picture is perfect, plus the lamp is almost brand-new. I'm still waiting for my dealer to call me about getting in touch with his repair service as I don't want to keep doing this procedure and getting success only 1/3 of the time. There's logic involved with the power-up that checks the fans before turning on the bulb, and I think my problem is there. The same kind of logic that turns the set off if you have no signal for a specified period of time.

Based on what you describe, it sounds like there's an intermittent fault condition with a thermal dependency. It's interesting that the TV boot fails if you do a TV reset immediately after the problem arises. This is probably because the fault condition persists until the circuit board has cooled. This is actually a good thing because the uproc is able to now catch the error during the start-up routine.

So what you need to do is get to the point where the red LED lamp is on. Then hold the DEVICE & MENU buttons for 5 seconds and record the flashing LED sequence that results. This will give you insight into what is causing the fault (the red LED being lit can represent many different problems, not just an issue with the actual lamp).

noplasma

12-07-07, 03:16 PM

1) Is it necessary to replace ALL the capacitors on all boards from that vendor?

The common problem we're seeing is caused by the two 3300 uf caps on the power board. You'll need to replace these two in order to get your TV working again. I've posted the mouser p/n for good replacement caps in an earlier thread post.

Beyond that, some of us have replaced other swollen caps (usually much less visibly swollen) as a part of good maintenance, but it's not clear what other problems (if any) are caused by them. It's certainly much more work to get to the other boards in the chassis and you risk damaging a ribbon cable or causing other damage.

FlaHP

12-07-07, 05:37 PM

delar,

Did you see my post about PTSCORP? They are now providing complete chassis rebuild on the 62525 electrical chassis for $295.00 plus shipping.

Not a bad deal considering they will troubleshoot the whole things and rebuild it as well.

Where is the info?

Any links? This would be a great option in case teh repair shop comes back with a crazy number

JoeC4745

12-07-07, 07:48 PM

So if I were you, I'd wait a few more days to see what Joe's results are.

Just my luck... The DM board didn't fix my problem so I've given in and ordered the whole chassis!!!

noplasma

12-07-07, 08:44 PM

Just my luck... The DM board didn't fix my problem so I've given in and ordered the whole chassis!!!

Oh no!! Dang, first the EEPROM, then the signal board, then the DM board. I guess I can see why repair shops just replace the chassis straight out.

ParrotSquawk

12-08-07, 10:29 AM

I have attached a photo of my TV in diagnostic mode.

As you can see, I have anything BUT a rectangular shape to my image.

What adjustments do I need to make?

http://www.get-noticed.com/images/62725.jpg
(Note: this photo is with the anti-glare screen attached)

ParrotSquawk

12-08-07, 10:33 AM

I have a 62725 and don't use a cablecard or a set top receiver.

When I set my tv to scan for channels, it sometimes includes the music channels. When I try to switch from a music channel it takes a looooooong time (sometimes over a minute) to switch.

Has anyone else run across this issue?

00hawk#140

12-08-07, 07:49 PM

IronHorse

12-08-07, 09:07 PM

My set las was on a media card when I shut it down, but I put it there by mistake and I don't know which slot or position the selector is in. I need to do some kind of default reset where it goes back to cablecard source. Is there any sequence of buttons or another hidden button?

IFLYSWA

12-08-07, 09:17 PM

Got a few questions please

I have a mitsu 52 the bulb indicator has been on for some time now...today the picture seemed not as bright as it should be...is the bulb causing this ???

Is it easy to replace.??..my warrenty will provide another bulb to me after this one goes out.... anyway to "schedule" this thing to go out ? I don't want to be without my tv for a few days waiting on a bulb... will it break if I take it out and shake it ?

I'm worried about the dim picture...it did get better as the tv was on for awhile...but it took quite awhile (20minutes).

thanks 00hawk

I would just make a call on the warranty complaining of a dim picture. They should replace the lamp then, shouldn't they? And shaking it might actually help your picture...these are mercury vapor lamps so shaking it might help redistribute the vapor more evenly. Others have reported that, anyway. And I haven't replaced mine yet (I will be in the next couple of days), but I have taken it out and put it back in, and it was very easy...

Randy

spiff72

12-08-07, 11:33 PM

Got a few questions please

I have a mitsu 52 the bulb indicator has been on for some time now...today the picture seemed not as bright as it should be...is the bulb causing this ???

Is it easy to replace.??..my warrenty will provide another bulb to me after this one goes out.... anyway to "schedule" this thing to go out ? I don't want to be without my tv for a few days waiting on a bulb... will it break if I take it out and shake it ?

I'm worried about the dim picture...it did get better as the tv was on for awhile...but it took quite awhile (20minutes).

thanks 00hawk

I agree with what IFLYSWA said. My yellow lamp indicator came on and I thought my extended warranty was nearly over, so I called Best Buy and told them the yellow lamp indicator was on, and my picture was noticeably dimmer. They replaced the bulb without any complaints.

00hawk#140

12-09-07, 12:16 PM

HTBruceM

12-09-07, 02:29 PM

Bulb is in front.

Check your audio menu to see if the speakers have been disabled there.

collin

12-11-07, 09:21 PM

any results from the ptscorp rebuilds yet?

mzorola

12-12-07, 12:46 AM

delar

12-12-07, 11:53 PM

Got a call from PTS today. They are shipping my boards via UPS. Both my DM and Power board were found in need of repair. As soon as I get them I'll post my findings. I sent these boards because that was my best guess as to what might be the problem. I hope it does work out.I'm pretty sure your blinking green light problem will be gone with the repair of the DM board and those caps on the power board were eventually going to fail, so those were probably replaced on that board too. I remain skeptical that your wavy line issue was fixed. If it isn't, then we can deduce that the cause lies somewhere on the FMT board. I patiently await your results.

collin

12-13-07, 07:51 PM

so i happened across somebody locally that has a WD-52725 (same model) with a failed lamp engine and he's giving up. since I have a blinking green light problem that swapping caps did not fix, do you think swapping in his chassis would fix my problem?

This is his description of his tv's problem:
When you turn the tv on. The lamp tries to fire up 3 to 4 times. You can see the lamp come on and then go off. You can hear the color wheel spin. There is 280v on the lamp ballast output(Correct). Then the red light comes on at the front of the TV and when you check the error code by holding menu/input on the front you get "Lamp abnomality" code.

lcaillo

12-13-07, 07:51 PM

The Terminal2 board and the Signal board have been known to have the same problem with the caps that the DM has. Look for the 1000uF and 330uF Jamicon caps.

brainsells

12-14-07, 09:24 AM

brainsells

12-14-07, 09:28 AM

The Best Buy Guy

My 52525 experiences the same wavy lines as many of you. Surprisingly, it only happens on highdef channels. My friends at Comcast have repeatedly tested the signal swearing it's optimal. I turn to Best Buy using my handy 4 year warranty, and this morning, Dave the Besy Buy Guy shows up. In less than 5 mins, he is 100% assured that the power supply, no wait, the format board is the problem. He walks out and says "the format board will be shipped directly from mitsubishi. we'll be back to install and your problem will be solved.".

Any takers on the Best Buy Guy's 5 minute analysis and remedy?
Before the tech could even leave my driveway, he calls me on the phone and states "Mitsubishi emphatically recommends a complete replacement of the power supply unit in the device." Dave must have had it right the first time.

Give this a few weeks to process the shipping/tech rescheduling; I'll update the forum with the results.

spiff72

12-14-07, 04:59 PM

I have BB warranty service too, and they are coming out next Friday. I am curious to find out what they say...

HTBruceM

12-15-07, 12:17 AM

My service is on Wed 12/19; pretty sure I have the swollen caps. I hope they call Mits instead of handling it all on their own.... My warranty is from Fry's, but I'm sure all the stores in my area use the same set of servicers.

iSean

12-15-07, 01:31 PM

It looks like some are you are lucky enough to get Best Buy to fix your tv set. I have a 4 year warranty from Best Buy (expires in early 2009) and I am having a difficult time getting them to fix my vertical scrolling line problems. I called BB in late September and I had a tech guy replace a board in early October. He saw the vertical scrolling line. He told me to use only the HDMI port if I didn't want to see the vertical scrolling line. He left and I haven't heard from him again. I needed my components for the xbox 360, cable box and the Oppo dvd player. I have the HD DVD hooked up to the HDMI.

I called back BB numerous times to tell them it wasn't fixed. Long story short, no matter how many times I called (from Oct to early December), I would get no help from anyone. It's always the same excuse over and over again. I was getting tired of dealing with the lack of BB's service. So early this week, I bought a Sony 60A3000 (from another local store) and got rid of the WD-52525.

The WD-52525 was a great tv. The picture was great on it for watching movies, HD programing, and playing video games. I even had my Macbook Pro hooked up to it. My first bulb lasted over 6000 hours. It just too bad something like this had to happen.

spiff72

12-15-07, 04:11 PM

I called back BB numerous times to tell them it wasn't fixed. Long story short, no matter how many times I called (from Oct to early December), I would get no help from anyone. It's always the same excuse over and over again. I was getting tired of dealing with the lack of BB's service. So early this week, I bought a Sony 60A3000 (from another local store) and got rid of the WD-52525.

What is the excuse they used over and over again?

iSean

12-15-07, 08:55 PM

What is the excuse they used over and over again?

They keep telling me that they will send someone over to look at my tv on this day and date. My local repair shop should call me back. They never did. I called BB warranty and its the same response. They would let me know, send someone over to look at my tv and it will be fixed. It never happened.

One of the message I have received on the answering machine (late October) from BB warranty that they ordered a part that was to be shipped to the local repair center by Thursday, please call back. I called BB and they told me that I should contact my local repair center because they should have a part in. I called the local repair shop the next day and they have no record of any part being sent to them. I called back BB warranty to ask about the part and they had no record of any part ordered.

I gave up. I am tired of hearing that it "will be fixed", "ordered a part", "the local repair center will get back to me", etc. This has been going on since early Oct.

All BB warranty had to do was send someone over to look at my tv, diagnose the problem, call Mitsubishi if needed, order a part and fix the tv under warranty. And if a part is on back order, I understand. But no. I had to play this wait and see game with them.

dnslammers

12-15-07, 09:54 PM

I have diagonal wavy lines on my 52525 and my tech shop that the extended warranty goes thru said they called Mits and they said its a bad formatter board. We'll find out, the part is on back order until January. I'll let you guys know. I only had wavy lines using component cables watching standard definition. HD was always fine.

Stephen

Natrix1973

12-15-07, 10:25 PM

Man I feel for you guys having problems with this set.

I had a 62525 that was purchased through Best Buy with the 4 year warranty. I had the Chassis Assy replaced once within the first year. At the beginning of the year, I started having some weird video issues and the same banding on all inputs other than HDMI. After a couple of service calls and talking to Mitsubishi, the tech ordered another Chassis Assy. It was on back order for over a month. I called back on the original ETA for the assembly and it had a new ETA of about another month out. I requested a replacement TV and after a week of waiting I was authorized for a replacement set. I went and picked out the 73833 as the replacement and payed the small difference in cost between the two which wasn't much.

Very happy with the upgrade!

spiff72

12-16-07, 12:57 PM

Natrix1973

12-16-07, 07:59 PM

For those who get a TV like this replaced under warranty, how do they decide the value of the original TV? Do they let you choose a TV equal in price to the original purchase price of the TV? Or do they pro-rate it in some way?

I know this will never happen to me, but it would be nice to know! :D

I got the full replacement cost of the original set. If I took a cheaper set, I don't think I would have got a refund though so I got an upgrade set and payed a little more.

noplasma

12-17-07, 09:55 AM

so i happened across somebody locally that has a WD-52725 (same model) with a failed lamp engine and he's giving up. since I have a blinking green light problem that swapping caps did not fix, do you think swapping in his chassis would fix my problem?

That should do the trick. If I recall correctly, you have the same problem as JoeC. That "blinking green light" is probably caused by a locked up processor, so it's difficult to tell what board interaction is locking it up. JoeC replaced his signal and DM boards without luck. If you can replace the whole chassis, it's a shotgun approach that should solve the problem. Without knowing all the interactions, I suppose there's a slight chance that the DMD (in the light engine) could be locking the boot-up, but I think that's pretty unlikely.

dnslammers

12-17-07, 10:34 AM

spiff72

12-17-07, 08:58 PM

My trusty, nearly always on (but rarely actually used for anything more than a print server) desktop PC has apparently fallen victim to the dreaded capacitor plague. I found it partially locked up and forced a reboot, which resulted in a hang at the BIOS screen. Uh oh. I tried rebooting a few more times and tweaking the settings in the BIOS for CPU speed to no avail.

When I got a spare moment, I popped open the case and found 1 cap that had ruptured its top seal and leaked, another adjacent one that was just starting to leak, and two more that were just swollen. They reside right between the CPU and the memory module. I figure that these are the source of the problem, but I don't know if this thing is worth tearing open and replacing them. The HDD also sounds like it is whining like a jet engine, so this makes me even less anxious to tear it down.

The point of all this is "Do caps really have a useful like that is this short?" 3 years in the case of these TV's, and nearly 7 in the case of my computer? This is the second motherboard that has suffered a similar demise. My first was one of the boards affected by the original plague. I was eligible for a rebate on that first one, but it was a tiny amount as the result of a class action suit (probably $25), and I didn't keep the receipt for the replacement board that I bought.

I realize that 7 years is a pretty good life for a computer, but when did these electrolytic caps become "disposable"?? :mad:

Shape

12-17-07, 09:15 PM

spiff72

12-17-07, 09:59 PM

Caps should last indefinitely if they are made correctly. The issue is that these caps were faulty from the factory, and it affects a LOT of electronic equipment that is out there right now.

Wikipedia calls it the capacitor plague:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

Yeah - that's why I called it capacitor plague in the subject of my post! :D

The frustration I have is that the plague continues nearly over 8 years after the issues began.

Natrix1973

12-17-07, 11:22 PM

Who did you talk to about getting a replacement TV? Mits or the Extended Warranty company or Best Buy?

Stephen

Just the number on the Best Buy warranty information. I just asked about the part ETA issue and then asked about what I needed to do to request a replacement. The lady I spoke to said she would put my request in and they let me know about a week later after they reviewed my service history and part availability.

technoholic

12-18-07, 12:51 AM

collin

12-18-07, 01:17 AM

That should do the trick. If I recall correctly, you have the same problem as JoeC. That "blinking green light" is probably caused by a locked up processor, so it's difficult to tell what board interaction is locking it up. JoeC replaced his signal and DM boards without luck. If you can replace the whole chassis, it's a shotgun approach that should solve the problem. Without knowing all the interactions, I suppose there's a slight chance that the DMD (in the light engine) could be locking the boot-up, but I think that's pretty unlikely.

unfortunately the guy tossed his whole tv before we could make a deal. :( I think I'm at that point with this thing now too.

delar

12-18-07, 01:37 AM

My 52725 started with the wavy lines on SD signals a while ago. Fortunately, I have a 5yr warranty from Ultimate Electronics. The tech took one look at the symptom and knew right away that it was bad caps. He replaced a handful of them and reassembled the set (no easy task) only to arrive at the blinking light of death. That was over a week ago, we are still waiting for parts. It seems parts availability is getting to be an issue due to demand. What a bummer.

The real problem is what to do with this set when it is working again?? The replacement parts are sure to contain the same failure prone capacitors so it is only a matter of time before the problem recurs, out of warranty. It isnt worth dirt on the resale market. One thing is for sure, my next set will not be another Mitsu...

I will post updates on the repair progress.Do you know specifically what board(s) he replaced caps on? I've replaced them on the formatter board, but the wavy lines remain.

Parts availability is a concern, and lead times will get worse as these sets age. I'm also concerned about purchasing a replacement board now only to have the same component(s) on it fail a year or 2 down the road. And who knows what else will go bad in the meantime. *sigh*

noplasma

12-18-07, 09:37 AM

Do you know specifically what board(s) he replaced caps on? I've replaced them on the formatter board, but the wavy lines remain.

Parts availability is a concern, and lead times will get worse as these sets age. I'm also concerned about purchasing a replacement board now only to have the same component(s) on it fail a year or 2 down the road. And who knows what else will go bad in the meantime. *sigh*

Since he says that they got the blinking green light of death afterwards, it's not clear that replacing the caps fixed the wavy problem.

noplasma

12-18-07, 09:39 AM

Yeah - that's why I called it capacitor plague in the subject of my post! :D

The frustration I have is that the plague continues nearly over 8 years after the issues began.

Since replacing the caps in my TV, I've found swollen or leaking caps in a friend's LCD monitor, my computer's power supply, and my computer's motherboard. I can't imagine how much electronics must be getting tossed after an early death due to this problem.

paudemge

12-18-07, 11:20 AM

IFLYSWA

12-18-07, 11:43 AM

Today my red bulb indicator came on and TV shutdown. I unplugged/replugged the power and restarted it and the message came on the screen asking if i replaced etc.... hit cancel and went past it and then it flashed red again and went off. Repeated the same thing.. My question is if the bulb is dead how can it display anything on the screen?

I looked at the bulb and can see no indication it is dead. The last time i had to replace the bulb there was no question it was bad.

When that happened to me, I cleaned out the dust filter, took the lamp out and gave it a good shake, then put everything back. It did take one reset after that (because I didn't have the filter door back on...DOH!), but it came back on with no problem then...hope that helps!

Randy

paudemge

12-18-07, 11:59 AM

When that happened to me, I cleaned out the dust filter, took the lamp out and gave it a good shake, then put everything back. It did take one reset after that (because I didn't have the filter door back on...DOH!), but it came back on with no problem then...hope that helps!

Randy

Well, I tried this; but no go. It still comes on for a second with the 'Did you change the bulb question', but it then turns off and the red lamp indicator comes on before i can answer the question.

I'm trying to get a replacement bulb through Warrantech, but no one seems to be available on there online customer support.

Finally got someone on the WCPSOnline chat and it is a trying experience.

mzorola

12-18-07, 01:43 PM

PTS Rebuild update...
I got back one of two boards sent for rebuild at PTSCORP. I inspected the power board and it appears as though they replaced a number of parts. Before I sent in the board I marked all the components because I was curious as to which items would be replaced. They replaced a number of capacitors and a few components that attache to large heat sinks.

I am still waiting on the DM module--they say it will be another week before it is finished.

jerrys1

12-18-07, 02:43 PM

I have a 52725 that I have had for about 3 years. When I first turned it on, it was so bright I almost needed sun glasses to watch. Now after 3 years I can't watch a show or movie that takes place at night because the picture is so dark. I have had to replace the bulb every 9 months, so I believe that I'm on my 3rd one. I have the brightness and contrast controls turned up as far as they go. Anyone have any ideas?

HTBruceM

12-18-07, 04:05 PM

georule

12-18-07, 05:56 PM

Well, we bought a WD 62725 from Ultimate Electronics on Dec 23, 2004 with a three year warranty. So obviously the warranty expires this Sunday. Two days ago it started acting up. I guess the good news is it picked the week before the warranty expired instead of the week after to do it. Service people are coming on Thursday.

What is happening is that when I turn the TV on when it is cold (i.e. not been on in some hours), the green power light turns on, at least one fan fires up, and about ten seconds later a click is heard, the status light goes to blinking red, and the fan cuts off immediately. Pushing the reset button causes the power light to go blinking green for a minute or two, and then off. At that point I can try it again.

The first time this happened, one reset was enough to get it to work the second time. The second time it happened, the next day, it took two resets to get it to work. It was at that point, remembering that the warranty was about to expire, that I called in to the warranty people to request service.

The third time was this afternoon. It took 8 reset recycles to get the TV to come on this time. It seems relatively clear to me that something is warming up just enough in these short green/on cycles to eventually work. The warranty guy on the phone suggested it sounded like a faulty fan to him.

Anyway, we're going to leave it on over night tonight to be sure we can watch TV tomorrow (otherwise I don't like the trend line on how many resets it will take to get it to start next time we let it cool down). Wednesday night we'll turn it off and let it cool down overnight so hopefully it will obediently recreate itself for the repair guy on Thursday morning when he comes.

Tho I'm also hoping that since these TVs are so much like computers these days, that he'll be able to hook up some diagnostic thingie and have it dump recent errors even if the red status light thingie doesn't happen for him. Does anyone know if that's likely?

This is the "status" light, and not the "lamp" light.

lcaillo

12-18-07, 08:33 PM

I'm pretty sure your blinking green light problem will be gone with the repair of the DM board and those caps on the power board were eventually going to fail, so those were probably replaced on that board too. I remain skeptical that your wavy line issue was fixed. If it isn't, then we can deduce that the cause lies somewhere on the FMT board. I patiently await your results.

Mitsubishi has no information regarding component level repair of the boards for these sets. I have attempted to discuss the matter with them and have searched the service site and they will only support board level repair. My guess is that the problem with the lines is more likely on the signal board, power supply, or the terminal boards. It is nearly impossible to work on this chassis to do troubleshooting, however, so it is largely a matter of shotgunning these problems. The first thing that I would do is change all of the Jamicon caps that are 330uF or larger on any of the boards. We know that they tend to fail. The early stage of failure on these involves high dielectric absorbtion, which can cause lots of strange problems, long before the cap goes leaky, heats up and fails.

technoholic

12-18-07, 09:34 PM

Do you know specifically what board(s) he replaced caps on? I've replaced them on the formatter board, but the wavy lines remain.

Parts availability is a concern, and lead times will get worse as these sets age. I'm also concerned about purchasing a replacement board now only to have the same component(s) on it fail a year or 2 down the road. And who knows what else will go bad in the meantime. *sigh*
Caps were replaced on the DM and power boards and one other board that I dont know the name of. At least a dozen total were replaced. The subsequent problem apparently is something in the DM module but hopefully we will get a complete chassis transplant. No word yet that part are in...

technoholic

12-18-07, 09:47 PM

Since he says that they got the blinking green light of death afterwards, it's not clear that replacing the caps fixed the wavy problem.
True, the caps may not have been THE problem (we probably will never know) but there is no doubt that they were A problem based on their swollen apperance. The subsequent blinking light problem was sheer frustration. The guy worked on the problem till 9PM, knocked off for the night and returned at 7AM the next morning and spent another 2 hours or so. He has 37 years experience and is the owner of our local high end electronics store so I believe he is more than sufficiently qualified. It looks to me that Mitsubishi has a severe quality problem with this product.

delar

12-19-07, 12:11 AM

My guess is that the problem with the lines is more likely on the signal board, power supply, or the terminal boards. It is nearly impossible to work on this chassis to do troubleshooting, however, so it is largely a matter of shotgunning these problems. The first thing that I would do is change all of the Jamicon caps that are 330uF or larger on any of the boards. We know that they tend to fail. The early stage of failure on these involves high dielectric absorbtion, which can cause lots of strange problems, long before the cap goes leaky, heats up and fails.Thanks Leonard. Not the answer I was hoping for, but it does determine my course of action.....replace all the caps on all the boards. I thought for sure the problem was with the Formatter board, but after what you just said, now I don't know. Considering it's a board substitution crapshoot, and the board lead times are lengthy, it's really the only option right now, short of complete TV replacement. Thanks.

georule

12-19-07, 12:22 AM

Well, our set has progressed to having turned it self off and not starting up at all now. "He's dead, Jim". Hopefully repair dude will have a resurrection spell with him on Thursday.

No 62 inches of goodness until then, at the earliest. :(

lcaillo

12-19-07, 05:57 AM

Thanks Leonard. Not the answer I was hoping for, but it does determine my course of action.....replace all the caps on all the boards. I thought for sure the problem was with the Formatter board, but after what you just said, now I don't know. Considering it's a board substitution crapshoot, and the board lead times are lengthy, it's really the only option right now, short of complete TV replacement. Thanks.

I think that Mitsubishi has made a very large mistake by only supporting board level repair on these sets. They have techs rebuilding the boards just a few steps away from the tech support guys, so they have to know what goes wrong with them and they have to have schematics and parts for them. With the sets having enough problems that supplies of the boards are affected, it just makes no sense not to get the info out to techs about how to repair them.

What we do know is that they have had lots of problems with the Jamicon caps. This may not fix your set, nor every other problem out there, but it is pervasive and the first thing that I would do if I had one with a problem would be to change them and see if it fixes it. You have to be very careful with this chassis to not damage any wires when taking it apart and re-assembling it. Be particularly careful of the ribbon cables and the connections to the light engine.

noplasma

12-19-07, 09:18 AM

This is the "status" light, and not the "lamp" light.

A blinking red status light means bad fan. The long/short pattern will tell the tech which fan went out. Hopefully the tech will be able to fix it fairly quickly for you.

teqnikool1

12-19-07, 03:24 PM

Help me out here, I know there has been a lot of discussion about wavy lines and bad capacitors. I too have the problem, and because I work in the electronics industry I am ready to buy and replace all of them.

I believe there has previously been a list compiled of quantity and values, is that correct? Can someone point me to a link. Forgive my ignorance, but I don't know how to search this thread; because I'm a freakin' newbee, so can someone please take pity on me and show me how to find this information?

John Williams

12-19-07, 03:32 PM

I just put in a service call to have someone come out and look at my wavy lines. They make the component inputs almost unwatchable, and are starting to show up more and more on VGA as well.

I'll report back when I have an update.

-John

georule

12-19-07, 03:56 PM

A blinking red status light means bad fan. The long/short pattern will tell the tech which fan went out. Hopefully the tech will be able to fix it fairly quickly for you.

Thanks! That would be a relief.

spiff72

12-19-07, 06:18 PM

Could someone out there please post a high res picture that shows the wavy line issue? (I can host it if you email it to me). Just PM me for my email address.

I want to be able to look for them once the service guy gets my TV back up and running again, and point them out as a secondary issue (if I happen to have them).

Thanks

noplasma

12-20-07, 08:36 AM

noplasma

12-20-07, 08:52 AM

teqnikool1

12-20-07, 11:38 AM

Thank you noplasma, I have read all your posts and appreciate your input. I just talked to one of our reps about the bad capacitor information on the web. I had no idea it was a bad as it is.

Nothing but top quality replacements going into this beast. It's kinda fun and interesting to take it apart, but it makes me kind of nervous dealing with the price of this thing.

Thanks again,

Jim

georule

12-20-07, 11:56 AM

A blinking red status light means bad fan. The long/short pattern will tell the tech which fan went out. Hopefully the tech will be able to fix it fairly quickly for you.

Both a DMD fan and lamp fan replacement later, it's happy again. And because he had to take the light engine out to get at one of them, we got a free mirror dusting as well. Noticeably brighter now.

teqnikool1

12-20-07, 03:56 PM

Through some help of the local Nichicon Rep I have links to Digi-key's webpages for the 3300uF 10Volt, and the 1000uF 16V capacitors.

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=493-1790-ND
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=493-1505-ND

jerrys1

12-21-07, 09:12 AM

Did you clean the mirror?

What mirror?? and how do I clean it!!

georule

12-21-07, 02:14 PM

Since you're in Minnesota, I'll commend In Home Tech to you for your HDTV service needs. They just did ours. They do a lot of the warranty work for Ultimate Electronics. Phone# is 763-544-1355

Guy cleaned our mirror while doing some warranty work, and it certainly made a difference. There are guides around, I think, if you want to do it yourself. I think I'm lazy and well-off enough to prefer paying an expert. YMMV.

dssturbo1

12-21-07, 02:38 PM

What mirror?? and how do I clean it!!

the lower internal mirror, that faces upward and is known to collect dust very easily. start with the instructions by spiff from this thread on page 95 post # 2838

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5657842&&#post5657842

also can use the pics from ironhorse's post on page 141 post 4222

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=444566&page=141&pp=30

dssturbo1

12-21-07, 02:46 PM

here's the difference in a dirty mirror and a clean one!

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/371/mitsdlpdirtymirror7pc3.th.jpg (http://img252.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mitsdlpdirtymirror7pc3.jpg)

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/7251/mitsdlpcleanmirror2sh7.th.jpg (http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mitsdlpcleanmirror2sh7.jpg)

spiff72

12-21-07, 05:25 PM

My BB service appointment was today, and it was pretty much a waste of my time.

He showed up with a new lamp, and I told him (and the initial phone contact) that I didn't think the lamp was the problem, but we could give it a shot.

Of course, the new bulb didn't make any difference. He never even allowed the TV to pop the red light again - he just hit the power button. He guessed it was a bad ballast. He didn't have a service manual for it, and he didn't run the diagnostic test that would have told him "lamp abnormality".

I am pretty sure that a new ballast won't help either. I am hoping for "3 strikes" to kick in and they will have to give me store credit for a new one!

I am guessing this process is going to take months :eek: .

I am glad we have other backup TV's...

edelweiss

12-21-07, 10:02 PM

Great informative board--I have been lurking for a year since I purchased my TV.

I have been noticing short discontinuous bright white lines appearing on HD commercials where there is a black background. Is this a cabling issue (I am using HDMI cable) or the TV?

Kingrhead

12-22-07, 06:05 PM

First time post, but lurker for 3+ years with my 52525 TV which was mfg in July 04. We had the same issue others had with the screen turing wavy. Powering down and re-power up turned on the lamp replacement light solid red as predicted which gave us confidence your recipe would prove to be the fix. We had the same exploded caps (3300 pF), replaced them, and now watching TV after a few hrs of assembly fun.

This cap issue has happened with other companies. One example was Dell who took a huge hit to their profits one quarter with a huge recall. Doesn't seem like Mits wants to go that approach, but I would bet more and more TV's are going down this path. While we truly love this TV, Mits' support on this issue will make us go somewhere else to buy a new TV someday and tell 10-20 people along the way.

HTBruceM

12-22-07, 08:07 PM

My BB service appointment was today, and it was pretty much a waste of my time.... Same experience here. Tech didn't even open the TV or take any measurements. Swapped the bulb, no change. Saw the light go out after a few seconds after power up and concluded "optics" was the problem. I tried to nicely suggest the electrolytic capacitor issue, but he was clearly not interested in all the work it would take to un-sandwich all the various boards just to get a view of them. Couldn't convince him otherwise.

Whatever. This process IS going to take months... When the new light engine doesn't fix it, I'm going to insist that he take my TV with him and don't bring it back until it is fixed. My warranty was purchased thru Fry's but that probably doesn't matter - they all use some local TV repair place that is Mits authorized anyway. This TV is now sitting in the dining room on the floor after we purchased a new Sony KDL-52W3000. I'll get the Mits fixed (eventually) and sell it asap.

BTW, the Sony flat panel LCD looks SPECTACULAR. Viewing angle is must better than I expected.

On a separate note, it looks like Sony has stopped all RPTV production. Their sales of RPTVs has dropped 50% (or anticipated to drop that much - don't remember which). So it's goodbye to those wonderful SXRD RPTVs and their last 1080p 3-chip LCD sets.
http://www.twice.com/article/CA6514401.html

HTBruceM

12-22-07, 08:13 PM

Since I'll be dumping my Mits DLP soon, I wanted to say "goodbye" to all the posters here. This has been a great and informative place to share our experiences.

No more Mits for me - I'm now a Sony guy :) Now to catch up on that huge thread...

technoholic

12-22-07, 11:50 PM

My 52725 started with the wavy lines on SD signals a while ago. Fortunately, I have a 5yr warranty from Ultimate Electronics. The tech took one look at the symptom and knew right away that it was bad caps. He replaced a handful of them and reassembled the set (no easy task) only to arrive at the blinking light of death. That was over a week ago, we are still waiting for parts. It seems parts availability is getting to be an issue due to demand. What a bummer.

The real problem is what to do with this set when it is working again?? The replacement parts are sure to contain the same failure prone capacitors so it is only a matter of time before the problem recurs, out of warranty. It isnt worth dirt on the resale market. One thing is for sure, my next set will not be another Mitsu...

I will post updates on the repair progress.
It is now +2 weeks and counting, still no parts. Mitsubishi TVs are sure not what they used to be.

technoholic

12-22-07, 11:53 PM

Daniel Murray

12-23-07, 12:11 PM

$.01

IFLYSWA

12-23-07, 01:01 PM

Looks like my next TV won't be a Mits, even though I've been fairly lucky with mine. The lack of support I've seen from them with everyone else's problems is enough to turn me off of them...

I still don't think I can buy Sony, but you never know.... ;)

Randy

UMD_Terp

12-23-07, 03:48 PM

I am now getting wavy lines on my component inputs as well now... ugh... it's not horrible and I can only see them on backgrounds that are one color (blue, gray, black) but normal viewing is ok for now. This will probably get worse, but I really don't care... I am not fixing this thing. With Sony now bowing out of the rear projection market, I don't know... the only non-RP sets that look remotely decent to me are the newer Samsung LCDs and the Pioneer Kuro plasma... everything else just doesn't cut it in terms of motion-blur, black levels, or overall picture.

technoholic

12-23-07, 05:49 PM

$.01
Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of! :-(

Daniel Murray

12-24-07, 09:11 AM

Look at this and we have more problems than this on are sets.
http://www.sonysxrdtvclassaction.com/main/home.sfx

Daniel Murray

12-24-07, 09:32 AM

I Have been a fan of Mitsubishi TV for a long time but in the last couple of year or so I Just can not be a fan any more!!!! No support and bad TVs that they put out knowing that they are not going to last. Just makes me Very Mad!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I paid over $4000.00 for my WD-62725 and plus the matching stand.
#1 I never new that every four months or so that I will need to take the TV apart to clean the mirrors and wipe the lamp down just so it can keep the pitcher bright and clean.
#2 I am on my third lamp in 6000hrs. first lamp failed in the first year, second lamp failed in the second year and now I am on my third lamp and all most at my third year. So I guess I can say I have had three Mitsubishi lamps in less than three years.
#4 I had to make my pitcher adjustments so my TV pitcher was in the center of the set. I maid my adjustment by the service code , key tones at the light engine and the ketones at the lower mirror.
#5 I have had four firmware updates
#6 I have replaced 6 caps
So Now what is going to fail!!!!!!!!!!!!
I feel like we all have been riped off in some way by Mitsubishi!!!

paudemge

12-24-07, 10:47 AM

I feel the same way, but not quite as bad.
My lamps seem to last about 18 months, i can't really tell how many hours because any time the tv is reset or loses power (seems about every couple of months at least not related to the tv) my lamp hours get reset. (my dvr remote doesn't have a cancel button for the tv). So i don't get the yellow warning light, my bulb burns out and the tv is out of commission for a few days.
My biggest problem by far is the dusty mirror, this is a killer and I won't buy another mits.
But when the bulb is working and the mirror is clean, it still has a fantastic picture.

paudemge

12-24-07, 10:49 AM

I'm feeling kinda lazy, so before i look for the answer, does anyone know how to reset the 'TOTAL' lamp hours, i would like to reset that value so i could get a better feel for when my lamp is going to go out.

delar

12-26-07, 12:09 AM

I disassembled the chassis today to take stock of the capacitor sizes and numbers needed for my total electrolytic caps replacement project. However, after looking at the Signal Board, I've had a change of mind. For one thing, the number of caps on the Signal Board alone is daunting, but also none of them looked even slightly swollen. So I decided instead to replace all the caps on the Power Board only. I'd say half of the caps on that board are to some degree swollen, even the small 100 uf caps. The Power Board feeds the Formatter Board (and the others) with 6v and 12v via connector K1, and the cap related to the 12v supply is the most swollen cap on the Power Board. Perhaps the noise/leak is originating here. We'll see.

Here's the sizes and quantities of electrolytics needed for the Power Board:

1000 uf 16v (5) look good
1000 uf 10v (1) very slightly swollen
1500 uf 25v (2) look good
2200 uf 35v (2) look good
470uf 25v (1) moderately swollen (12v supply to boards)
680 uf 25v (1) moderately swollen
100 uf 25v (6) all look somewhat swollen on tops
10uf 50v (3) look good
330uf 10v (1) look good

3300uf 16v (2) these have already been replaced to correct another problem.

There's also 5 large caps on the lower part of the board (1000uf 200v Nichicon's). I'm not replacing these.

So I'll look around locally for these this week. I was hoping to buy quality long-life Panasonic replacements online, but DigiKey has been out of stock for months now (gee, I wonder why). Anyone know of another manufacturer of quality long-life caps besides Panasonic? (BTW, the visibly swollen caps on the Power Board are of both Jamicon and Nichicon manufacture).
PTS Rebuild update...
I got back one of two boards sent for rebuild at PTSCORP. I inspected the power board and it appears as though they replaced a number of parts. Before I sent in the board I marked all the components because I was curious as to which items would be replaced. They replaced a number of capacitors and a few components that attache to large heat sinks.These are Center-Tap Schottky Barrier Diodes, Part #FMB-26L. There's two of them adjacent to the two infamous 3300uf capacitors. Does anybody know why PTSCorp would replace them? Can these components go bad in such a manner as to cause the wavy line problem? Should I also be replacing them along with the capacitors?

Edit......found the following online regarding these diodes. Let me tell you, these suckers are pretty hot to the touch even when the TV has been left turned off all day.The Schottky barrier diode has a low forward voltage drop (Vf), but it is extremely sensitive to temperature because of its high leakage characteristics over its operating range. The low energy barrier metal design makes it easily susceptible to thermal runaway when a nominal amount of heat is applied. Thermal runaway occurs when the reverse power exceeds the diode’s capability to dissipate heat at the same rate it is generated. The Schottky diode will continuously heat up until the metal barrier is destroyed causing the diode to fail short.Edit #2.....just some ramblings here. This wavy problem has only showed itself in the last few months and there now appears to be a small flood of complaints. People with wildly varying viewing hours on their TVs are seeing this problem. The only common denominator appears to be the approximate purchase date of mid/late 2004. This leads me to believe that the failure of the component(s) in question is not dependent on actual viewer usage, but rather the amount of time the TV has been left plugged in. I feel that whatever component is failing is one that is being fed power whether the TV is on or off. So what boards have power applied to them 24/7? At least 2....the Power Board and the DM Board. Now the DM board could be the cause, but it won't be the 4 caps on that board as their failure causes the blinking green light/reset problem. So we're back to the Power Board, which is powered and quite warm to the touch all the time. I don't think any of the other boards are fed power while the TV is off, but I could be wrong. We'll see soon if my theory holds up.

/rambling

noplasma

12-26-07, 10:17 AM

We'll see soon if my theory holds up.

/rambling

Your deductions seem reasonable. I'd be interested in hearing the result of your power board repairs.

cccamel

12-26-07, 10:29 AM

So I have the diagonal lines running through my non HDMI inputs (DVD Player and WII).

I had the light engine and power supply replaced last spring and it left me without my TV for 3 months while my BB warranty service provider waited for parts from Mitsubishi and kept my TV in the shop!

If I call this in to get repaired will the service company be able to do the service in my home or will they need to take the unit again? Any suggestions on what to tell the repair techs as far as letting them know the likely issue?

I really do not want to be without the set for another extended period especially since I do get my cable box signal clear as ever through HDMI!

Thanks for any input

delar

12-26-07, 01:08 PM

cccamel

12-26-07, 10:15 PM

cccamel

Several people have reported this problem, but nobody as of yet has had it repaired, or at least is able to confirm it as being repaired because their TV still suffers from other problems. One user reported that his tech was told by Mitsubishi that it was a problem with the Formatter Board. I'm not so sure. Considering the extensive caps problems they're having, maybe all they're doing is guessing there's a problem with the caps on that board, but I've been able to eliminate them as the problem, at least with my TV. Not knowing where the problem lies, most techs would probably suggest a chassis replacement, and for most owners, that's out of the question. Better to live with the problem or spend the money investing in a new TV. Totally understandable.

I'll see if I can get these caps replaced by the weekend. If I still have the wavy lines after the repair attempt, then I'm back to thinking there's a problem with the Formatter Board unrelated to the electrolytics.
Thanks for the response, is the chasis replacement any different an option if I am still covered under my extended warranty? Or are there other implications of the chasis repalcement?

thanks!

delar

12-26-07, 11:29 PM

Thanks for the response, is the chasis replacement any different an option if I am still covered under my extended warranty? Or are there other implications of the chasis repalcement?

thanks!It's really up to the people handling the warranty what repair action to take. If the service company is willing to work with you, you might want to document the symptoms in as much detail as possible and convey this information to them. Information should include the inputs you notice the waves on. Also, emailing them a picture of the waves might help as well. They can then touch base with their service contacts at Mits (if any) and get an idea as to what it's going to take to repair before coming out to your place. Worst case scenario is your TV sits at the repair shop for another 3 months while they do board swaps in a troubleshooting effort. However, before allowing that to happen, I would wait a bit until someone here gets theirs fixed. Many people are having this problem now and some of them are having service people take a look at it. It shouldn't be too long before it is known with certainty where the problem lies. Good luck.

dnslammers

12-27-07, 11:51 AM

cccamel

Several people have reported this problem, but nobody as of yet has had it repaired, or at least is able to confirm it as being repaired because their TV still suffers from other problems. One user reported that his tech was told by Mitsubishi that it was a problem with the Formatter Board. I'm not so sure. Considering the extensive caps problems they're having, maybe all they're doing is guessing there's a problem with the caps on that board, but I've been able to eliminate them as the problem, at least with my TV. Not knowing where the problem lies, most techs would probably suggest a chassis replacement, and for most owners, that's out of the question. Better to live with the problem or spend the money investing in a new TV. Totally understandable.

I'll see if I can get these caps replaced by the weekend. If I still have the wavy lines after the repair attempt, then I'm back to thinking there's a problem with the Formatter Board unrelated to the electrolytics.

I'm one of those users that was told its the Formatter Board. The part comes in Jan 16th. I'll report back as soon as I hear.

FYI, the tech took our TV back to their shop in Nov. when they came out for the service call. Based on the recommendation of someone else here on the forum, I called the store we bought the TV from back in 2005 and they gave us a Mits 46" LCD as a loaner as a good faith effort. It might be worth your trouble to call your store to see if they will take care of a past and "future" customer.

Stephen

JoeC4745

12-27-07, 07:41 PM

I feel that whatever component is failing is one that is being fed power whether the TV is on or off. So what boards have power applied to them 24/7? At least 2....the Power Board and the DM Board. /rambling

All the boards on the main chassis have 12v and 6v power fed through those 4 pin connectors (org, brn and black wires). Each board has at least it's own switichmode 3.3V regulator. They are located near the large coils and large caps that seem to need replacing. I've also found several fixed regulators that are always on.

I read on this board that the set draws 65W when off. Sounds like everything but the lamp and light engine?

I like your theory that the problems are related more to how long AC is applied rather than how many hours the set has been on.

I'm still waiting on my chassis for my power-on problem. It's been on order since the begining of the month. I'm hoping it will show up when promised in the next week or two............

spiff72

12-27-07, 07:44 PM

Just for fun I was price comparing the current DLP models at Best Buy to see what my 2004 price would buy today. I looked at the 73" Diamond series model WD-73833 (not that I would buy another Mits), and one thing jumped out at me when I looked at the specs to see if they were still building them with Cablecard slots. The weight of the TV is under 93 lbs. I thought this seemed low, so I went back and looked at the specs of my WD-62525 (11" smaller screen), and it weighs nearly 165#.

Is this an indicator that they are getting even chintzier? Or have all of the RPTV's gone on a diet? Or is the 2004-5 series just really heavy?

JoeC4745

12-27-07, 07:49 PM

Is this an indicator that they are getting even chintzier?

No, they are more cost effective..........:)

shaggy2002

12-27-07, 08:57 PM

Need help. I replaced my bulb after having the set for 2 years and 5 months. Today I come home from work to start my 3 day weekend and turn on the tv and nice...red solid lamp light. I have unplugged replugged redlight. I pulled the lamp and reset, red light. I think my bulb has died and have had for less than 6 months. I am furious to the point where I am considering just going to buy another TV since at this rate after 4 bulb purchases I can have a new tv....I also have the faint diagnol lines on any input except for hdmi. Any suggestions on what I should do? replacement bulb was purchased directly from mitsubishi.

I also held down device and menu and I get 3 blinks green pause 4 blinks green on the power/timer button.

delar

12-27-07, 11:06 PM

I also held down device and menu and I get 3 blinks green pause 4 blinks green on the power/timer button.Error 34 = Lamp Abnormality. Could be a lamp or ballast issue. It could also be a problem with the two 3300 uf capacitors on the Power Board. I'd have a look at those first before buying another lamp.

delar

12-27-07, 11:22 PM

All the boards on the main chassis have 12v and 6v power fed through those 4 pin connectors (org, brn and black wires). Each board has at least it's own switichmode 3.3V regulator. They are located near the large coils and large caps that seem to need replacing. I've also found several fixed regulators that are always on.

I read on this board that the set draws 65W when off. Sounds like everything but the lamp and light engine?

I like your theory that the problems are related more to how long AC is applied rather than how many hours the set has been on.

I'm still waiting on my chassis for my power-on problem. It's been on order since the begining of the month. I'm hoping it will show up when promised in the next week or two............65 watts sounds like a lot for something that isn't even on, and it feels like most of it is being dissipated as heat.

You're right about all the boards being fed from the same 6v and 12v taps. My understanding is that the DM Board runs all the time because the CableCard needs to operate even when the TV is off. However, for the CC to do it's thing, the Signal Board (where your cable coax connects) would also have to be running. So there's another board that's probably powered while the set is off. Despite this, I'm pressing forward with the Power Board repair. I was lucky to find all the required caps locally, so we should know in a day or 2 whether this will do the trick.

shaggy2002

12-27-07, 11:34 PM

delar, how do I go about checking the 3300 capacitors on teh power board? Also, I see where lots of guys have replaced their capacitors...isn't this something for a well experience person to do?

delar

12-27-07, 11:45 PM

You don't have to be well experienced, no. But if you're not a tinkerer or are apprehensive about pulling the back covers off the TV and removing the electrical chassis, then perhaps it's not something you should be doing yourself. Only you can decide that.

shaggy2002

12-27-07, 11:51 PM

WEll I am in IT and totally comfortable with computers. I can pull the back cover off...my problem is I have no Idea where the power board is. Hell I was thinking about buying a samsung led and looks like there are issues with that set as well. Anyone have the number at mitsubishi that I can call to complain that this tv is realatively new and has issues?

delar

12-28-07, 12:25 AM

Anyone have the number at mitsubishi that I can call to complain that this tv is realatively new and has issues?That might make you feel better, but it won't accomplish anything beyond that. Back to your problem, finding the Power Board is relatively straightforward. Luckily, it's the most easily accessable of the 5 or so boards in the chassis. Once the back lower cover is off, you'll see the shiny metal chassis box on the left side (as you face the back of the TV). Enough hardware (support bracket, metal panel, more screws, etc) has to then be removed to allow the chassis assembly to be slid out of the cavity it's sitting in. A few wire connectors also have to be unplugged to do this, but most can remain connected for this job. The Power Board sits on the inner most side of the chassis, so once the chassis has been pulled out, you twist it to the side so you can access its back cover. Remove the screws to the back cover and slide it up and off to access the Power Board. In the upper left hand corner of the board you'll see 2 large heat sinks parallel to each other. Immediately adjacent to the left most heat sink are the two 3300 uf capacitors. If they look swollen, the board will have to be removed from the chassis, the old capacitors desoldered from the board and 2 new capacitors soldered back in their place. Then you put everything back in the reverse order you removed them.

Search this thread for pictures of the chassis and the Power Board. I believe there is chassis removal instructions in PDF form also available around here as well.

shaggy2002

12-28-07, 12:56 AM

I downloaded the manuals...I may check into this. Can the capacitators hold a charge if the tv is unplugged?

delar

12-28-07, 01:01 AM

I downloaded the manuals...I may check into this. Can the capacitators hold a charge if the tv is unplugged?Any charge would be too small to be of concern. Good luck.

technoholic

12-29-07, 12:42 AM

It is now +2 weeks and counting, still no parts. Mitsubishi TVs are sure not what they used to be.
More bad news today from the repair tech, parts will not be available until "mid January". I sent a nastygram email to Mitsu but dont hold out any hope it will do any good. It really is too bad what Mitsubishi has devolved to. I will keep you posted........

Daniel Murray

12-29-07, 09:53 PM

Look at what I have found it is a class action lawsuit on Mitsubishi
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8887

IFLYSWA

12-29-07, 10:10 PM

Look at what I have found it is a class action lawsuit on Mitsubishi
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8887

Interesting...I've been lucky, so I'd have no reason (yet) to jump on, but I hope that if they go through with it they get more than most class action lawsuits, as far as the plaintiffs go. My fear is that the lawyers will get fat on fees and the users will end up with a coupon for $400 of their next Mits purchase, or less. I really hope I'm wrong...

Randy

Kevin M.

12-29-07, 10:21 PM

I've added my name to the lawsuit. We have had the horizontal lines for the past 3 months. . We have a Model 62825 puchased around February 2005
Manufactured October 2004

Edit: we just have lines on the component input, HDMI, S video, and RCA inputs are fine, as well as Antenna for locals.

Daniel Murray

12-29-07, 11:26 PM

I all so put my name in on my 62725

delar

12-29-07, 11:53 PM

Sad to report that the caps replacement on the Power Board did not fix the wavy line problem. I measured all the old caps with my meter and all but one were within the +/-20% tolerance typical for electrolytics. The other one was only ~35% off. Obviously a disappointing result, but not unexpected.

So it's back to believing that the Formatter Board is at fault. After all, it was reported here that a field tech was told by Mitsubishi that the problem was with that particular board. Also, like I said before, the VGA input only goes through the FMT board before heading out to the Light Engine. But what I can't understand is if that's the case, why is the HDMI signal unaffected. According to the flow chart, the HDMI signal is converted to component (Y, Pb, Pr) before being sent to the Formatter Board. There, I assumed it's handled much like the Component, Composite and S-Video signals before being sent to the DM Board for A/D conversion. The only thing I can think of is A) The flow chart is wrong and the HDMI signal remains digital throughout (a remote possibility), or B) The component constituents of the HDMI signal are handled differently or through different circuitry than the other analog inputs. Has anyone reported seeing waves on HDMI but not on anything else?

At least one person here is waiting for a Formatter Board from Mitsubishi to fix this problem. He was told mid-January for delivery, so we should know for sure then......if we're lucky. My bet is this problem currently exists or will soon exist in hundreds if not thousands of sets, and I believe Mitsubishi will have serious difficulty in meeting the demand for the board. I wouldn't be surprised if that mid-January date was pushed to February or beyond. Even if Mitsubishi comes through in a couple of weeks, that still doesn't leave us with a DIY repair. We still have to buy a backordered replacement board from Mits or send the old one to PTSCorp for repair (and considering mzorola's situation, a several-weeks wait for even that).

No, for me the options are few. I'll wait a few more weeks for a DIY repair to emerge, but if there isn't one by the end of January, I'll be buying a new TV, and handing this thing down to my parents who won't notice the washed-out look of the HDMI. I was checking out the Pioneer Kuro plasmas at Magnolia. A little pricey, but very nice. The Elite's ability to have HD files streamed to it over ethernet is a feature I'm interested in. We'll see.

Kevin M.

12-30-07, 12:36 AM

Thanks for the update

BearGator56

12-30-07, 12:56 AM

I added my name for my 2004 62525. I would be happy with Mitsubishi offering a replacement LCD.

gtcharlie

12-30-07, 09:04 AM

Can anyone give me an idea how long a lamp will last once the yellow light comes on? Mine appeared for the first time last night. I would hate to think I am sitting down to watch a good bowl game and the tv will not come on. I do have an extended warranty from Tweeter and it is supposed to include one bulb replacement. I have a feeling they will not act that quickly though. I know there is no exact amount of time like the fuel indicator in a car but any estimates would be helpful.

jdarwin

12-30-07, 09:52 AM

spiff72

12-30-07, 02:30 PM

I purchased my 52525 in Sept. 04. Last night it went out (same problems as others). It now only shows a red light. I tried pressing the DEVICE and the TV Menu and the Device Menu buttons but the TV light didn't blink. Which buttons do I push to get the error code? Also is there an AVS member in the DFW area that would like to repair mine? Thanks

Sunday P.M. - I called Mit. Cust. Ser. The LED that is red is the lamp LED. They are telling me I need to replace the lamp. Before I spend $200 on a lamp, have others with my problem also had the lamp LED lit or was it the STATUS LED? Thanks

I have the Red LAMP LED illuminated on my TV, and it isn't the lamp. Best Buy came out with a replacement and it didn't fix the issue. It could be the lamp, but based on what everyone else is seeing, chances are it isn't. I was fortunate that I had the extended warranty, since it caused them to bring a new lamp out and rule this out as the problem.

My TV was purchased in August 04. I had the lamp replaced back in July, so I was pretty sure I wasn't seeing a lamp failure. Are you still on your original lamp? If so, then it is still possible that you do have a lamp problem.

technoholic

12-30-07, 10:24 PM

I've added my name to the lawsuit. We have had the horizontal lines for the past 3 months. On all inputs except HDMI. We have a Model 62825 puchased around September of 04

I'm in too if for no other reason than to send a message to Mitsu that the situation is not acceptable.....

Daniel Murray

12-30-07, 10:50 PM

Lets see if we can send a VERY BIG Message to Mitsubishi about there very Low quality products and Customer Service!!
So lets get your name in the Class Action lawsuit and lets hope for the best!

Leeisfishing

12-31-07, 01:20 AM

I purchased a used WD-52525 a few weeks ago for $750. It has 2.5 years left on the extended warranty which was tranfered over to me.
It has a great picture and it is better than my 4 year old Mits rear projection tv (WS-55613)

I am starting to notice some real faint diagonal lines on my component(analog) inputs and just like everyone else my HDMI and Firewire are clear. I called Warrentech and they are contacting Downtown Radio out of Denver to come look at my tv.

In the mean time I saw another 52525 on Craig's List with the flashing timer led for $350. I figured it might be an easy fix by replacing the caps on the DM module.

I tore it apart and replaced 4 caps on the DM Board, 4 on the format board 2 on the Term 2 board and 6 on the power supply board.

Unfortunately that didn't work. The timer led still flashes continuously and doesn't stop.

I did my voltage checks and found the same voltages as JoeC4745 and Collin

TP3.3V = 0.0
TP5V = 0.83
TP6VS = 7.1
TP12V = 0.02
TP12VS = 12.2
TP+15V = 16.02
TP-15V = -16.0
TP30VS = 30.1

I then read the post that says that the ones not coming up are switched.

At first I was thinking the DM board is bad but I disconnected the FC connector going to the Format board and the status led stopped flashing after 70 sec. I then re-connected the FC connector and hit the power button and all my switched (cold) voltages on the power supply turned on. I am thinking the format board is hanging the processor.

I am hoping when they come out too look at my other tv they break the warranty void seal.
As soon as they do that I can start swapping boards to determine what is causing the flashing green led of death.

As long as the flashing green led of death tv doesn't have the diagonal wavy line problem then I can swap boards and find out which board is causing that also.

Hopefully this will help some people having problems.

noplasma

01-02-08, 10:09 AM

I am thinking the format board is hanging the processor. ...

Hopefully this will help some people having problems.

Thanks for posting. I believe JoeC finally gave up and replaced his entire chassis. I'm not sure what Collin ended up doing. But this is useful information. My only caution to those with the "blinking timer problem" is that there could be a handful of problems that cause the TV's uproc to hang (i.e., bad EEPROM, bad reset switch, leaky console switches, etc), but if there's a single more widespread problem, the FMT board sounds like the place to start for troubleshooting.

Relating to the wavy lines issue, if you pinpoint which board is causing that, that would be a most helpful step in isolating the problem.

tbully

01-02-08, 10:32 AM

Thanks for posting. I believe JoeC finally gave up and replaced his entire chassis. I'm not sure what Collin ended up doing. But this is useful information. My only caution to those with the "blinking timer problem" is that there could be a handful of problems that cause the TV's uproc to hang (i.e., bad EEPROM, bad reset switch, leaky console switches, etc), but if there's a single more widespread problem, the FMT board sounds like the place to start for troubleshooting.

Relating to the wavy lines issue, if you pinpoint which board is causing that, that would be a most helpful step in isolating the problem.

Here Here. I'm adding myself to the "wavy lines" list for all analog inputs. I have the WD-62825. I'll start digging around for the bad caps. If I had a schematic, I wouldn't mind scoping out the signal path to see where the noise is being injected.

noplasma

01-02-08, 01:18 PM

If I had a schematic, I wouldn't mind scoping out the signal path to see where the noise is being injected.

I wish we had schematics. However, a starting point might be to check various pins on the FMT board for noise or anomalous potential. The interference may also be caused by excess current across an area of the PCB ground plane, resulting in uneven ground potentials (i.e., ground loop / noisy ground).

memnoch2

01-02-08, 01:42 PM

I have the Red LAMP LED illuminated on my TV, and it isn't the lamp. Best Buy came out with a replacement and it didn't fix the issue. It could be the lamp, but based on what everyone else is seeing, chances are it isn't. I was fortunate that I had the extended warranty, since it caused them to bring a new lamp out and rule this out as the problem.

My TV was purchased in August 04. I had the lamp replaced back in July, so I was pretty sure I wasn't seeing a lamp failure. Are you still on your original lamp? If so, then it is still possible that you do have a lamp problem.
i started with the wavy lines issue myself a couple of months ago. i put the tv in another room unplugged and put my older Samsung HLM (from 2003) back. i have the extended warranty and just recently gotten to call a service tech. prior to his arrival, i plugged the Mitsu back in and now i get sound but no picture and after a while the tv will turn off and the lamp indicator will be a solid red, indicating a lamp failure. service tech came in, checked it out and immediately diagnosed it as needing a new lamp. not surprisingly, he brought the wrong lamp for the set and, in total, spent less than 5 minutes with the tv. (i think it took him longer looking for our house...) he is supposed to get the correct lamp and hopefully i can see him again within the week or next. i, too, doubt that the lamp is the culprit, but he cannot really rule it out until he actually tries a replacement, so i just kept quiet. i will add my name to the lawsuit as well because this is just shady quality.
spiff, please keep us up-to-date on your repair. thanks.

UMD_Terp

01-02-08, 02:39 PM

can someone please post a link to the lawsuit? I will add my name as well... I also have filed a complaint with the BBB regarding my issues... I doubt it will go anywhere, but hey... it's worth a shot.

Daniel Murray

01-02-08, 04:51 PM

Look at what I have found it is a class action lawsuit on Mitsubishi
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8887

Here you go :D

noplasma

01-02-08, 05:47 PM

Here you go :D

What are a company's legal obligations to its consumers? Obviously Mitsu is shredding any sense of reputation when they sell $4400 MSRP TV's that go to pot within 3 yrs (and this should hurt their bottom line over the long run), but are they *legally* required to provide decent service and a reasonable product reliability?

I really don't have much experience with this -- does anyone here have a sense of whether similar class action lawsuits have succeeded?

JoeC4745

01-02-08, 06:09 PM

I really don't have much experience with this -- does anyone here have a sense of whether similar class action lawsuits have succeeded?

Good question. Besides their inability to supply parts the case may have merit based on the number defective sets? Just a guess, so I added myself to the list anyway while I continue to wait for the chassis.

lcaillo

01-02-08, 06:36 PM

If they can't supply parts they have, IME, been willing to accomodate clients with a replacement set or some credit toward the purchase of a new set, depending on the age of the set with the problem.

Daniel Murray

01-02-08, 07:09 PM

What are a company's legal obligations to its consumers? Obviously Mitsu is shredding any sense of reputation when they sell $4400 MSRP TV's that go to pot within 3 yrs (and this should hurt their bottom line over the long run), but are they *legally* required to provide decent service and a reasonable product reliability?

I really don't have much experience with this -- does anyone here have a sense of whether similar class action lawsuits have succeeded?

I hope this might help out.
http://www.sonysxrdtvclassaction.com/main/home.sfx

spiff72

01-02-08, 08:26 PM

I can provide an update on my repair.

I had posted previously that my red lamp LED was on, and BB came out to try to fix it. The tech tried the lamp, and didn't fix it. He then declared it was the ballast (which I was fairly certain wasn't the problem either), and said they would order the parts and BB would contact me.

I got a call a week later saying that the order was being processed. Another couple days later they left a message for the that the parts were on backorder. I called their customer service number to ask for a timeframe, and what part they actually ordered. They said the part was expected to ship on Jan 6th, and they ordered a power board. Aside note: I was hoping the would order the ballast (incorrectly), and I could beat them up over the delays in fixing my TV, and then they would have to replace the whole thing - store credit! :-( So much for this plan - I think they did order the right part.

Now I am going to keep my eyes pealed for the wavy line issue.

Can anyone take a good (high-res) photo of the wavy lines and post it? Do they move, or are they stationary?

spiff72

01-02-08, 09:46 PM

I'm feeling like a giant douche today :p , so I have to vent my feelings about class action suits. My feeling (and you will find this expressed all over the internet) is that they usually only benefit the attorneys in the case and a select few members of the class (often the ones who filed the original suit). Attorneys LOVE to get a lawsuit granted "class action" status.

Many class action suits tend to generate small settlements - like a coupon toward a future purchase (from the plaintiff corporation - not exactly what I would want - another Mits TV), or perhaps (if you are lucky) an extended warranty that covers a very specific issue - namely the problem caused the lawsuit.

One thing that will not happen (feel free to quote me on this) is Mits would be forced to replace the TV of every member of the class.

There are some advantages, but the I think the disadvantages can outweigh them. Take a look at the wikipedia entry for class action suits (pros and cons):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_action#Pros_and_cons_of_class_actions

One of the biggest things that bother me about these coupon settlements is that you may be waiving your right to ALL other claims against Mitusbishi for a lousy coupon for $200 bucks.

OK - I am done ranting for now. Carry on with your previously scheduled conversation! :D

IFLYSWA

01-02-08, 09:55 PM

Well, I fear you are probably right...as you can see from my post #5126 above... ;) So I'm going to say that injecting a bit of reality to expectations isn't really very douche-y.... :D

Randy

lcaillo

01-02-08, 09:57 PM

I'd say you are right on target spiff72. It makes little sense to join in a class action suit against a company that you are likely to get more out of negotiating with directly as a consumer. I have seen Mitsubishi issue tens of thousands of dollars worth of warranty authorizations or replacements on sets as old as 5 years that have had catastrophic failures or that have had parts unavailable.

If Mitsubishi would just get its head out of a particular orifice and provide some serious tech support for component level repair on this chassis, along with some complete service manuals and schematics, many of the issues would have much less expensive solutions. Threats of class action suits just make them less likely to give out any info on problems.

spiff72

01-02-08, 10:05 PM

Well, I fear you are probably right...as you can see from my post #5126 above... ;) So I'm going to say that injecting a bit of reality to expectations isn't really very douche-y.... :D

Randy
Huh - that was only 1 page ago! You can't possibly expect me to remember that far back!

Warning, HUGE tangent follows: I don't know why, but the word "douche" is now my favorite "put down" - especially when prefixed by "giant" and suffixed by "bag". :p

Oh and "frigtard" is another good one - I have to credit Fake Steve Jobs with that one, even if he didn't come up with it himself.

delar

01-02-08, 11:58 PM

Can anyone take a good (high-res) photo of the wavy lines and post it? Do they move, or are they stationary? I can try (need to borrow camera from my bro), but the waves are most visible on darker scenes, so they may be hard to capture well. Judging from the number of people reporting this problem in this thread alone indicates that the overall number of people who have these waves must be significant. The root cause has to be the same for everyone. If one of the larger microprocessors is at fault, then most of us are SOL. Those are near impossible to replace. Otherwise, it's probably a DIY or field tech component replacement job. Come on, Mits! Give it up!

hithere

01-04-08, 09:34 AM

I hereby add my name to the list of those experiencing the wavy lines problem.

Some strangeness to mine: I do not experience the issue with my Verizon FIOS box (Motorola dual-tuner DVR same as Comcast, 6412 iirc) on Component 1. I have not switched it over to check, but it may be of significance that the cable box is the only input to the tv running 1080i (tv is a better scaler than the cable box). All other component inputs (at 720p, at least) have wavy lines, no matter what is on the input and what is plugged into or around the set. I will check tonite to see if Component 1 is unaffected at 720p, or if another device on the same input exhibits the problem.

I am a frequent user of the VGA input, and that input manifests interference as sparkly, horizontal patterned lines of interference, which have gradually worsened over time to the point it is no longer usable in any sense of the word. It used to be just a significant annoyance, now it renders text unreadable.

HDMI is unaffected, but am using this input for my HD-DVD player, which leaves my PC out in the cold.

I have tried cable replacement, swapping/removing components plugged into the set, moving the set to a different outlet, shutting off my furnace fan while the TV is running, etc. to no avail. Similar to others that have experienced the problem, the tv's on-screen menu exhibits the interference when on the VGA input.

Picked up the TV while working a summer at Best Buy in August '04 (imagine that), and got it at substantial discount with the 4 yo. service plan. I have scheduled a tech visit for Jan 13. I don't plan to be without the set for any significant length of time, or I shall unleash my Scotish wife upon the happless denizens of Best Buy and the warranty company...and they will comply (if you've ever witnessed a female Scot who has been wronged monetarily, then you'll know what I'm talking about).

teqnikool1

01-04-08, 10:47 AM

I need a wife like yours!! I howled with laughter when I read your message!!

garciab

01-04-08, 11:15 AM

My two tales to share.

1.My 62725 exhibits the wavy line problem, with SD material only. First noticed it when I got a new dvd player last year, and chalked it up to bad cables, new receiver, or faulty dvd player. Didn't bother me enough to investigate/resolve, and still doesn't bother me enough for repair, not until my ext. warranty is running out. Since then, I've bought a hd-dvd player for that input, and I believe the lines are only there with SD content. I may be wrong, but I've noticed the wavy lines when the tv does its video mute 'blue screen', even when on the monlink input. I'll have to double check this with the monlink input though, I don't remember which source I was going to watch when I noticed the wavy lines on the blue screen, but I'm pretty sure it was the ps3 which is on the monlink (hdmi).

2.Friend has a 62525 with the blinking timer light. His tv won't shut off anymore, but he can cut power to it, and after getting power again, his tv will go through the 'reset' cycle succesfully, and it then operates normally. Until he trys to turn it off. So he lets it go through the normal cool down, lamp fan shuts off normally, then he cuts off his power strip. When he wants to watch tv again, he'll turn on his power strip, let the tv do its initialization, and off he goes. No telling how long it will continue doing this.

Maybe some of this info can provide helpful clues as to the operation of these sets.

John Williams

01-04-08, 12:08 PM

Interesting -- my first WD62725 (itself a replacement for a JVC LCoS set that later turned out to be a fire hazard!) had the blinking-timer-light-of-doom error as above way back in December 04 / January 05 right after I got that. They swapped that one out entirely for a new one which just went into the shop with the wavy line problem, among other things.

It does seem to be much worse on SD sources on component but I still notice it when feeding 720p, and even a bit on VGA. Oddly it doesn't seem to show up much on HDMI but that input is crap, unfortunately, so I never use it.

Once it comes back fixed that set is getting demoted to the downstairs MBR, and a new Sony 60" A3000 series is to be delivered in the next day or two.

I'm done with Mits from now on.

-John

hithere

01-04-08, 03:19 PM

I need a wife like yours!! I howled with laughter when I read your message!!

Yeah...it's like shoving a rabid badger into a burlap sack full of kittens.:D

1. Drop wifey off at Best Buy.
2. Go eat cheeseburger at Wendy's.
3. Pick up wife, new tv.

Kevin M.

01-04-08, 03:53 PM

I noticed something interesting, our 62825 has the built in hard drive, I believe the 725 does not? anyway when I pause the TV, the wavy lines freeze, like its recording the lines. Started the process today of calling Mits, spoke to a worthless woman that said its the input, and call a service tech out. Anyways thats the latest

spiff72

01-04-08, 07:58 PM

Picked up the TV while working a summer at Best Buy in August '04 (imagine that), and got it at substantial discount with the 4 yo. service plan. I have scheduled a tech visit for Jan 13. I don't plan to be without the set for any significant length of time, or I shall unleash my Scotish wife upon the happless denizens of Best Buy and the warranty company...and they will comply (if you've ever witnessed a female Scot who has been wronged monetarily, then you'll know what I'm talking about).

Let us all know how this works out. I plan on taking full advantage of my Best Buy extended warranty if these lines show up after they (hopefully) fix my red lamp LED of doom issue. I am curious if they deem it a serious enough problem for warranty work.

Also, I think it is safe to say that you WILL be without the TV for a while if they take it back with them (or at least will have to live with the lines while you wait for parts). Parts for this TV seem to be in short supply.

hithere

01-04-08, 11:58 PM

Just wanted to say that I've tested my component inputs with 1080i input from my HD-DVD player...no lines. This does introduce an additional scaling step for standard DVD's as well as VGA from the PC, but does mitigate the problem somewhat for 1080 source material (tv is a better scaler than the cable box, but on approximately equal footing with the HD-DVD player for 1080p source material). I'll test the PC input tomorrow with that rez. For now, I'm a little less concerned about waiting for parts while I use the PC input (for DVD's) over DVI/HDMI, and run my HD inputs over component at 1080i...and I definitely don't consider the problem "solved".

delar

01-05-08, 12:29 AM

Did a little testing myself today. Over component, 1080i appears to be the least affected by the waves, but at times I can see them. The waves roll in a cyclical manner, changing in both speed and direction. Sometimes I can see a crosshatch pattern trying to form. The waves are most easily seen when they're rolling slowly or at a stop. 720p channels seem to have it a little worse, but they are most prominent on 480i SD channels. The lines seen on 1080i appear to be much thinner than the ones I see on 480i. Perhaps that's why they aren't as bothersome.

Anyway, I took some pictures of the distortions I see on VGA and 480i channels. First picture is the DMW resolution test screen over VGA. Note the white distortions on the full resolution screen. This sort of distortion is seen in addition to the wavy lines, which are similar to those seen on 1080i, but more distracting to me. The second picture is of a 480i channel. Note the lines that run from upper right to lower left. I'll see if I can get better pictures tomorrow.

UMD_Terp

01-05-08, 12:43 AM

hithere

01-05-08, 09:48 AM

Now that I look at it carefully, text displayed by my PS3 has become harder and harder to read.... I run that at 720p over component... it never used to be this way. I would try over HDMI, if that input worked at all :rolleyes:

Can you try setting your PS3 up for 1080i over component?

First picture is the DMW resolution test screen over VGA.

Remember back when you first bought the set, when that screen used to come up pixel-perfect, with a minor adjustment to fine detail?:(

UMD_Terp

01-05-08, 05:46 PM

I'll try it at 1080i and get back to you...

noplasma

01-06-08, 12:43 PM

Has anyone with the wavy lines problem tried replacing the cluster of four 1000 uF caps on the FMT board? I previously replaced those and the wavy lines have yet to emerge on my TV... I was wondering if there could be a link there.

delar

01-06-08, 01:43 PM

noplasma, I've tried the 4 cap replacement on the FMT board already. Waves remain.

iSean

01-06-08, 08:11 PM

Here is my vertical line photo from my WD52525. Not the best quality, but you can see it.

Blue99Si

01-06-08, 09:07 PM

I have the wavy lines as well on all inputs except hdmi and vga. I see the lines on hd and sd, but the lines are much narrower on the hd. It was getting so bad that I moved the Xbox 360 to vga, and this helped to alleviate the lines, but now I get some horizontal tearing mostly noticeable on fps type games. The hdmi input on this tv is crap, i put the Directv hd dvr on hdmi and component at the same time, put up a split screen, and the picture was noticeably better on component. No amount of tweaking could bring the hdmi to be as sharp or vibrant as the other. The one other problem I've always had with the tv is a weird verticle tear about 1/3 over from the left. It's like the picture lags for a split second. Very strange, but it happens so rarely that I don't really notice or care about that issue. So is this normal for a 3 1/2 year old, $4000 purchase?

tbully

01-06-08, 11:16 PM

tbully

01-07-08, 01:18 AM

delar

01-07-08, 01:38 AM

So is this normal for a 3 1/2 year old, $4000 purchase?Sadly, it's looking more and more like it is the norm, at least for Mits units. Another week and still waiting patiently for a fix. What happened to mzorola and his PTSCorp-repaired boards?

tbully

01-07-08, 08:20 AM

noplasma

01-07-08, 09:39 AM

After putting everything back together, carefully checking all of my connections, I get the "boot light" / blinking power light and it doesn't stop. (used to after about 70 seconds or so)

Hmm... I wonder if there's something intermittent getting triggered during the vibrations of reassembly. Could be tough to trouble-shoot. I doubt it's bad caps since it sounds like the problem emerged during reassembly.

tbully

01-07-08, 09:47 AM

Hmm... I wonder if there's something intermittent getting triggered during the vibrations of reassembly. Could be tough to trouble-shoot. I doubt it's bad caps since it sounds like the problem emerged during reassembly.

I was (unfortunatley) thinking the same. Would it be worth while to pull the DM board and look for bad connections? On the older Mits sets, there were always "hotspots" where you could count on bad connections after a few years. I wonder if this unit has the same flaws.

hithere

01-07-08, 09:58 AM

I was (unfortunatley) thinking the same. Would it be worth while to pull the DM board and look for bad connections? On the older Mits sets, there were always "hotspots" where you could count on bad connections after a few years. I wonder if this unit has the same flaws.

The only thing I ever did that caused that was put the screw back in for the vent filter cover in the wrong place :D

Anyone out there know what the current lead times are on formatter boards/power boards for the 52525? Are the formatter boards the same for the xxx27's?

noplasma

01-07-08, 12:34 PM

I was (unfortunatley) thinking the same. Would it be worth while to pull the DM board and look for bad connections? On the older Mits sets, there were always "hotspots" where you could count on bad connections after a few years. I wonder if this unit has the same flaws.

You could try verifying continuity between the end sockets of all connections. Too bad you can't just connect to the UART and read status from the uproc during boot.

tbully

01-07-08, 12:57 PM

You could try verifying continuity between the end sockets of all connections. Too bad you can't just connect to the UART and read status from the uproc during boot.

No kidding. I'm not sure how much I want to tear in to this thing. It'd be a pity to pay a shop to do the repair. I used to love doing this for a living but that's when I was in a controlled environment with all the parts I'd need, in stock. Not to mention it sitting on a cart at waist level. (i.e. not on a cold hardwood floor) :-)

I'll try to dig in to the DM board and see what caps I need to buy....do the cap replacement....and go from there.

Buying the chasis for $600 doesn't sound like TOO bad of a deal (considering time is worth money). Is there any kind of calibration or configuration that needs to be done after a chasis replacement that anyone knows of?

mzorola

01-07-08, 02:54 PM

PTSCORP update. I am still waiting on my DM board! It was shipped last week and is scheduled for arrival this Wednesday! I'll let you'all know how it goes.

tbully

01-07-08, 02:58 PM

PTSCORP update. I am still waiting on my DM board! It was shipped last week and is scheduled for arrival this Wednesday! I'll let you'all know how it goes.

mzorola - remind us. I believe it was several pages back. You were having the blinking light issue or the wavy line issue? (or both?)

noplasma

01-07-08, 05:32 PM

noplasma, I've tried the 4 cap replacement on the FMT board already. Waves remain.

Have you (or anyone else) tried replacing caps on the DM board? Check the link below:

http://www.techlore.com/forum/thread/20297/Mitsubshi-DLP-issue/

Larry Dillon is generally pretty knowledgeable and seems to think the DM board is the culprit.

delar

01-07-08, 06:22 PM

I have seen bad capacitors In the DM cause this symptom.Interesting. I wonder what model(s) TV he's seen this occur in. I had my DM board replaced about 18 months ago and haven't looked at it since. When mzorola installs his repaired DM board (assuming PTSCorp replaced the caps), we should have a better idea. It would be nice if they were the sole culprit.

spiff72

01-07-08, 07:19 PM

Strange update:

I was double checking my connections again. The only one I wasn't sure of was the two 1394 connectors on top of the HDD mod. I believe they can be reversed anyway but out of ideas, I reversed them, plugged the unit back in and it booted! The picture looked fine.

Great! I put it all back together and it's "blinking" again. So maybe I'm not crazy... something odd is going on.

This is probably a dumb question, but is it possible that there is some sort of lockout switch that opens when the TV is opened, and that the connection to the switch (maybe it is a DPST) got reversed? So now when you open the TV, the switch is closed and it works, but when the TV is reassembled, the switch opens, disabling the TV?

Or there is just something goofy going on with a lockout switch (i.e. it sticks sometimes)?

Just a thought. Have you re-opened the TV and found that it works yet again?

noplasma

01-07-08, 07:21 PM

Interesting. I wonder what model(s) TV he's seen this occur in. I had my DM board replaced about 18 months ago and haven't looked at it since. When mzorola installs his repaired DM board (assuming PTSCorp replaced the caps), we should have a better idea. It would be nice if they were the sole culprit.

Yeah, it'll be interesting to get his results. As a side-note, it's possible that your replacement DM board was a retrofit, so it may have old caps in it.

spiff72

01-07-08, 07:24 PM

Yeah, it'll be interesting to get his results. As a side-note, it's possible that your replacement DM board was a retrofit, so it may have old caps in it.

He did confirm in that thread that the WD62825 model could have the cap issue.

mzorola

01-07-08, 07:27 PM

My Mits 62525 had a wavy line issue for months (~1 year) before the dreaded green blinking lightof death. I would get the blinking light issue occasionally (after a power loss) but a reset usually brought the set up. After the blinking light issue I stumbled upon several forums concerning the boot-up problem and I decided to take a chance and tear it open. I replaced the caps on the DM board and the Term-2 board (my favored guess as the cause of the wavy lines). I did have bad caps on the DM board (visual inspection) but alas the new caps didn;t fix the problem. I took a guess and sent PTSCORP both the power and dm board for a rebuild. I received the power board weeks ago and I expect the dm board this wednesday. I hope this fixes my TV! If not then I may consider sending PTSCORP my entire chassis assembly. For $259 they will rebuild the entire unit. I just don;t know if it is worth putting the money into it.

btravis311

01-07-08, 09:13 PM

Hi all. Just dripping my drop of consumer disappointment in the bucket with ya'll.

I've got the wavy lines on the component inputs on my WD62725, bought in Feb 05. It's REAL bad on the Wii over component, but barely noticeable on the DirecTV HR10-250 over component.

I've got an initial service call scheduled for Jan 16. A tech from Norman's Electronics (out of Duluth, GA) is coming by. Anybody have any experience with them?

Thanks everyone for their reports. I'll keep you all posted. :)

noplasma

01-07-08, 10:15 PM

My Mits 62525 had a wavy line issue for months (~1 year) before the dreaded green blinking lightof death. I would get the blinking light issue occasionally (after a power loss) but a reset usually brought the set up. After the blinking light issue I stumbled upon several forums concerning the boot-up problem and I decided to take a chance and tear it open. I replaced the caps on the DM board and the Term-2 board (my favored guess as the cause of the wavy lines). I did have bad caps on the DM board (visual inspection) but alas the new caps didn;t fix the problem.

Interesting... so the DM caps were swollen, but you couldn't tell if replacing them fixed the wavy line problem because you still had the blinking green light problem (i.e., the TV still wouldn't start).

I think there's a good possibility that those DM caps are the main culprit for this widespread wavy line problem. Anyone out there want to be a trailblazer and replace those caps to provide some confirmation? For reference, here's the link to the V26 chassis replacement manual:

V26 Chassis Replacement Manual
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=6MKC3A3V

If it does turn out to be those caps, it's going to be a real bitch for everyone to do the fix. Getting to that DM board is a bit more troublesome than getting to the power board.

lcaillo

01-07-08, 10:26 PM

The DM caps have nothing to do with the lines. When there are swollen caps on the DM in these sets there are almost always caps on most of the other boards that are either swollen are on their way to failure. I strongly recommend replacing all of the Jamicon caps that are 330uF or larger if you are going to go to the trouble of changing any caps at all outside of the power supply.

delar

01-07-08, 11:32 PM

thehater

01-08-08, 12:01 AM

The search function on this board is pretty bad. I've got a WD-62725 that randomly goes blue, sometimes 3 or 4 times in a 5 minute period. The timer light flashes twice then the set powers off / resets after about 45 seconds. Then I get the blinking timer light for about 60 seconds and sometimes the unit won't power on or I get a black screen with a large (4-8 inch) green or white vertical bar on the right side, but most of the time it powers up and works fine for hours. It sounds like the "reset problem," but I haven't seen many posts on this.

Is anyone else having this problem and if so has anyone found a fix or had any luck with a shop fixing it for them? I have the latest firmware (v26 004.06) and it didn't even help.

dnslammers

01-08-08, 07:43 AM

The only thing I ever did that caused that was put the screw back in for the vent filter cover in the wrong place :D

Anyone out there know what the current lead times are on formatter boards/power boards for the 52525? Are the formatter boards the same for the xxx27's?

I've been waiting 6 weeks...for my FMT board to get repaired on my 52525.

sunbed

01-08-08, 08:49 AM

Well I posted this in another Mitsu thread, but figured I would join the crowd over here.

WD52725, purchased Dec 17, 2004

My wavy line issue just seemed to start within the last month. I don't notice it at all while watching HD content, but if I watch SD or a DVD (all through component) the lines are bad. Screen is still watchable, but I think its getting worse.

Luckly I did get the 5 year extended warranty, mainly because DLP was rather new back in 04 and I didn't want to take any chances. I am calling Tweeter today to start what I expect to be a long drawn out fight with them. Anyone have any experience with them as far as warranty repairs go? Seems most people here are trying DIY fix the problem. I will keep you all updated on my saga, as I am interested to hear how everyone else fairs.

Thanks,
Nick

sunbed

01-08-08, 09:15 AM

Just a quick update..

It starts already, first available appt. is not until the 24th of this month! So I guess now we wait and hope it does not get any worse before then.

Also what is the comparable model tv to the WD52725 now? I don't think this was a diamond series when I bought it, and I don't see another 52" dlp in the lineup. I have a feeling this is going to end with me demanding a new tv, so I want to get my ducks in line.

Thanks again,
Nick

noplasma

01-08-08, 09:44 AM

I think Leonard is right, though I'm pretty sure we've never had someone actually replace those DM caps and have the wavy line problem go away. I go back to the signal path diagram that shows that the VGA comes in on the FMT board and doesn't go anywhere but out to the light engine. Of course the noise could be entering the FMT board via some other path and manifesting itself in the problem we see, but chances are it's the FMT board.

That's a good point, the flow diagram does seem to point at the FMT. It's just that the widespread occurrence of this issue after 3 yrs life fits the characteristics of a cap problem and you've already replaced the electrolytics on the FMT board. I guess we'll have confirmation soon on whether it can be the DM board (e.g., noise propagating through the OSD branch path to the FMT, etc).

Is hipnotiq still reading this forum? He has access to the 3diamonds site. I wonder if Mits has posted anything on this problem yet.

BearGator56

01-08-08, 12:03 PM

I posted this in the 2004/2005 Mitsu DLP owners thread, but thought it might work here, too:

The tech came out today for the wavy line issues. They weren't as bad as usual today, but then again it was daytime and the bright room tends to wash them out some. At night, they really stand out.

But anyways... He saw them, which was the point. He said that he could try to fix it piecemeal, but he is just going to order a whole new chassis. He told me that it's possible they won't have it in stock, which could be a good thing on the path to getting a whole new tv out of this. He said if they can't get a chassis is a reasonable amount of time, that he will escalate the claim for me.

This will easily put the repairs and labor over the $2000 mark if this part is available. The light engine, ballasts, and at least one circuit board have been replaced.

I have a warranty through Sound Advice (Tweeter), which is serviced by N.E.W. Anyone have any experience on how they are with replacing the set?

The good thing about replacement value, is that I should be able to get a better tv for half of what I paid for this one. I know right now it's just wishful thinking that they'll replace it, but I really don't think the issues will go away.

tbully

01-08-08, 12:12 PM

Hello All,
I thought I’d take a minute and send an update regarding my issue. I tend to get wordy but I’ll try to type this out in an understandable way. Let me preface this message by saying I was in the projection TV repair business for 12 years. I still tinker around but I’ve been out of it for the past 5 or so. (about the time DLP / LCD rear projection came out - bummer) My favorite brand USED TO BE Mits and is one of the main reason I purchased this WD-62825 a few years ago.

My problems first started about 2 months ago when I noticed the wavy lines watching DVDs (component). I just ignored the issue until I remembered this thread and thought I’d see if anyone else was complaining. Alas, they were. Many people were talking about replacing puffy capacitors on the main power supply and other boards. The other night I decided to take apart my set to get a look at the caps and take inventory. After pulling apart the supply and taking note of all caps near heat sources and other known places, I decided I’d had enough because the FMT, DM, and signal boards are tough to get to. Although I didn’t find caps on the supply that looked bad, I figured I’d start at the PS and go from there. As you may have read in my posts from the past few pages, that’s when my problems REALLY started happening.

After putting the unit back together, it wouldn’t boot! (green blinking light) Immediately blaming my assembly, I tore it back apart looking for mistakes. I found none. At one point, it did boot and I was able to get a picture. I noted that the picture looked OK a few posts back but in actuality I do remember it having wavy diagonal lines (NOTE: This is on the HDMI input – more to come below). I summed the lines up to maybe loose cables or shielding not installed yet –long shot, I know. So I proceeded to put the set back together. As you also probably read, my set would again not boot! This is where I left it for the night. After reading mzorola's post, I'll bet that even if I didn't open the cabinet that night and just unpluged the set and let it cool down, that it wouldn't boot up.

The following night (last night), I decided to take another go at it. I purchased a bunch of 1000uf 16v caps because that seems to be the common value that’s going bad (Jamicon garbage). First, I thought I’d check to see if this issue was a bad connection, I plugged the set in, waited for it to boot (it didn’t), and then stated to tap around on the back side of the set using the butt of a screwdriver. It booted all of the sudden! This may have been a coincidence because I couldn’t get it to boot again. I decided now was the time to pull everything apart and replace the caps on the FMT and DM modules.

I tore everything down, found puffy caps on both the FMT and DM boards and also soldered up some hot spots around regulators, transformers, and other heat sources. I didn’t pull the signal board apart – maybe I should have. I also did a quick solder job on the PS. I put the chasis back together, plugged it in and it worked!! One caveat, I still had the wavy lines on all inputs (including HDMI). However, the OSD worked fine. I still chalked this up to having shields off, etc so I put everything back together.

After putting everything back together and putting the set back in the wall unit, I fired it up and still had the lines (same as other pictures posted here) on ALL inputs while the OSD continued to look OK.

Saddened, I started picking up my tools and considered posting here before calling a tech (yuck). I also know that I still should probably replace the caps on the power supply for good measure. I plan on going to my old shop this week to go through their stock of caps. (125 degree –high temp – good brands) After putting my tools away I looked at the set again, and the lines weren’t so bad! After about another 10 minutes, they were gone!!! THERMAL PROBLEM!

I let the set cool down over night (still plugged in) and turned it on again. It looked great. Actually, the lines on the component inputs seem much less / better than they were prior to this fiasco as well. You really have to look for them. So this leads me to believe that something in the standby / always on power supplies or related areas had to warm up. In addition, the replacement of the caps helped the component issue. Maybe there is ripple up stream somewhere that is still contributing enough to cause issues on analog video (component - vga) but not digital (ala HDMI and OSD).

Conclusion / Questions:
1) I guess I need to get some freeze-mist and see if I can see where the problem is at. Remember, I didn’t touch the signal board or the power supply yet. Any ideas?

2) Although, I haven’t unplugged the set, I imagine that if I let it cool down, the lines would come back. When mzorola explained his problem, it reminded that mine has been mysteriously gone to “blink mode” the past six months with a simple reset taking care of the issue. I think that this is a “sign” of worse things to come. (e.g. no boot or even getting in to JoeC or collin’s issues where the problem is finally “beyond” the caps)

3) What are the “sub supplies” used for on the FMT, and DM board (where the caps were replaced). I also noticed them on the power supply. Same basic components and layout…is this the 3.3V supply? It would make sense to have a low voltage supply such as this, local, to where it’d be used. A low supply like this can easily pick up noise when running between boards. The four caps are in parallel so they should measure around 4000uf in circuit. (mine do on the supply – that’s why I haven’t changed them yet) What (bigger) supply feeds these?

4) Where does the OSD and Video signal converge and how does it stay separate. My thinking is the issue is NOT on the power supply unless the OSD “stuff” and the rest of the video processing (i.e. where the noise is at when cold) are on separate supplies. Or the ripple is coming from multiple places (DM, FMT) and it still exists on the PS because I haven't touched anything there yet. This would also reinforce where some people fix the supply to fix the issue, some do the DM, and some do the FMT. (as I recall - anyway)

5) Is there anything on the signal board worth checking out? Is one of the sub supplies there as well?

I probably have other questions / issues but I’ve typed enough. I highly doubt anyone has actually read this far. Oh well, maybe it’ll help someone. (or me)

Cheers!

noplasma

01-08-08, 01:44 PM

I decided now was the time to pull everything apart and replace the caps on the FMT and DM modules... After about another 10 minutes, they were gone!!! THERMAL PROBLEM!

Very interesting! So it sounds like after replacing the FMT & DM caps, the wavy lines problem went from "always there" to "only there when tv is cold".

I guess I need to get some freeze-mist and see if I can see where the problem is at. Remember, I didn’t touch the signal board or the power supply yet. ... What are the “sub supplies” used for on the FMT, and DM board (where the caps were replaced). I also noticed them on the power supply. Same basic components and layout…is this the 3.3V supply?

It appears the K1 connector from the power board supplies 12Vs and 6Vs to the Signal, DM, FMT, and TERM-2 boards. Since PA, PJ, K2, PL, and PK supply the light engine and ballast, it appears all of the main chassis boards run off of the standby voltage rails.

It may be that that the 1000 uF cap clusters distributed across the FMT, DM, power, and signal(?) boards work in tandem to smooth the rectified 6Vs tap-off standby transformer output. So all of these caps degrading may contribute to a dirty 6Vs line.

Now that you've replaced the DM and FMT 1000 uF clusters, you've likely reduced the 6Vs noise to near the onset threshold, which allows thermal characteristics to bring it back from over the edge. The final test would be for you to replace the 1000 uF clusters on the power board (and perhaps the signal board) to see if the ripples are entirely removed.

Granted, lots of speculation here, but I think we're getting somewhere.

Aside: anyone who doesn't have the wavy line problem could try disconnecting their TV overnight and see if they appear at power-on while the TV is cold. If you see them, then your TV may be approaching the wavy-line emergence threshold. (I think I'll try this)

Aside #2: delar, do you think there may have been a subtle improvement when you replaced the FMT caps?

tbully

01-08-08, 01:54 PM

Very interesting! So it sounds like after replacing the FMT & DM caps, the wavy lines problem went from "always there" to "only there when tv is cold".

Well, the strange this is I had it on ALL inputs (not just analog - which nobody is complaining about) until the set warmed up. OSD was fine the entire time.

So you think I have the "4 caps" on the signal board too, eh? I didn't see them by peaking through the frame that the DM mounts on. (not the best look) If so, it looks like there are at least 8 more caps to change in my future. (4 on the signal and 4 on the PS)

Are these the 3.3V supplies? Has anyone measured them when the set was running? It's tough to do. Mits didn't make this the easiest set to t-shoot when "hot".

It may be that that the 1000 uF cap clusters distributed across the FMT, DM, power, and signal(?) boards work in tandem to smooth the rectified 6Vs tap-off standby transformer output. So all of these caps degrading may contribute to a dirty 6Vs line.

Now that you've replaced the DM and FMT 1000 uF clusters, you've likely reduced the 6Vs noise to near the onset threshold, which allows thermal characteristics to bring it back from over the edge. The final test would be for you to replace the 1000 uF clusters on the power board (and perhaps the signal board) to see if the ripples are entirely removed.

Granted, lots of speculation here, but I think we're getting somewhere.

I agree. Good thoughts....

More to come once I get my hands on more caps.....

tbully

01-08-08, 02:00 PM

It appears the K1 connector from the power board supplies 12Vs and 6Vs to the Signal, DM, FMT, and TERM-2 boards. Since PA, PJ, K2, PL, and PK supply the light engine and ballast, it appears all of the main chassis boards run off of the standby voltage rails.

Crap. TERM-2 too? I didn't look there either.....I wonder if that supply with the 4 caps resides there as well.

noplasma

01-08-08, 02:10 PM

So you think I have the "4 caps" on the signal board too, eh?

The chassis replacement manual has photos of all the boards (see my post from yesterday for link). Looking at page 21, it definitely looks like the signal board has a cluster of them. Since the signal board provides 3.3Vs to Control, 6Vs gets down-converted at some point. I'd be interested in knowing if it's the 3.3Vs or the 6Vs side that's getting filtering there (the latter would supported my common 6Vs rail filtering theory).

BearGator56

01-08-08, 02:33 PM

Well, the strange this is I had it on ALL inputs (not just analog - which nobody is complaining about) until the set warmed up. OSD was fine the entire time.

So you think I have the "4 caps" on the signal board too, eh? I didn't see them by peaking through the frame that the DM mounts on. (not the best look) If so, it looks like there are at least 8 more caps to change in my future. (4 on the signal and 4 on the PS)

Are these the 3.3V supplies? Has anyone measured them when the set was running? It's tough to do. Mits didn't make this the easiest set to t-shoot when "hot".

I agree. Good thoughts....

More to come once I get my hands on more caps.....

Very interesting! So it sounds like after replacing the FMT & DM caps, the wavy lines problem went from "always there" to "only there when tv is cold".

It appears the K1 connector from the power board supplies 12Vs and 6Vs to the Signal, DM, FMT, and TERM-2 boards. Since PA, PJ, K2, PL, and PK supply the light engine and ballast, it appears all of the main chassis boards run off of the standby voltage rails.

It may be that that the 1000 uF cap clusters distributed across the FMT, DM, power, and signal(?) boards work in tandem to smooth the rectified 6Vs tap-off standby transformer output. So all of these caps degrading may contribute to a dirty 6Vs line.

Now that you've replaced the DM and FMT 1000 uF clusters, you've likely reduced the 6Vs noise to near the onset threshold, which allows thermal characteristics to bring it back from over the edge. The final test would be for you to replace the 1000 uF clusters on the power board (and perhaps the signal board) to see if the ripples are entirely removed.

Granted, lots of speculation here, but I think we're getting somewhere.

Aside: anyone who doesn't have the wavy line problem could try disconnecting their TV overnight and see if they appear at power-on while the TV is cold. If you see them, then your TV may be approaching the wavy-line emergence threshold. (I think I'll try this)

Aside #2: delar, do you think there may have been a subtle improvement when you replaced the FMT caps?

My wavy lines weren't on the OSD, either. Just on the picture behind it.

noplasma

01-08-08, 02:44 PM

My wavy lines weren't on the OSD, either. Just on the picture behind it.

That might be because the OSD is generated by a digital chip and has no analog segment in its flow. I believe all the other signals (except perhaps ATSC) involve an analog conversion. Any non-discrete segment would allow the introduction of noise to the signal.

tbully

01-08-08, 02:45 PM

That might be because the OSD is generated by a digital chip and has no analog component to its flow. I believe all the other signals involve an analog conversion. Any non-discrete segment would allow the introduction of noise to the signal.

Indeed - good thought again. I'll let you all know the outcome of tearing apart my poor TV once again. :D

thehater

01-08-08, 04:18 PM

noplasma

01-08-08, 05:23 PM

So is that a no?

I haven't heard of anything like that. Check back in a few days -- there are a few techs that occasionally peruse the thread and may be able to help. If it gets worse, you could have PTSCORP rebuild your electrical chassis for ~ $300.

tbully

01-08-08, 05:25 PM

So is that a no?

Just a thought, what are you using for a signal source? I know some units (not sure about this one) will shut down if they don't have a signal for an extended period of time (blue screen).

thehater

01-08-08, 06:47 PM

I get this on all my inputs. Input 1 (S-video) is connected to a DTV box, comps 1-3 are connected to my Xbox 360, Wii, and DVD player, and antenna A is using an over-the-air HDTV antenna. Aside from the timer light flashing twice when the screen goes blue, there is no error (err 12 after reset). The service guys I called said the have never heard of this problem and they'll need to take the set to trouble shoot it. I was thinking about ripping it open and checking out the caps, but if no one else has seen this then I'll just hold off until I get some input.

technoholic

01-09-08, 12:37 AM

OK - this is an embarassing message to send.

I worked in the TV (mostly projection) repair field for 10+ years although I've been out of it for the past 5.

I tore apart my wd-62825 tonight to check out the "cap issue" on the power supply. (didn't go furthur than that). After putting everything back together, carefully checking all of my connections, I get the "boot light" / blinking power light and it doesn't stop. (used to after about 70 seconds or so)

I've been reading Colin and JoeC's problems but mine seems strange because I didn't have an issue prior to pulling everything apart.

So here's my tail between my legs......asking if anyone has any ideas before I go crazy.

Thanks all.

Sorry to hear about your TV, sounds like the same situation with mine. I placed a service call for the wavy line problem. The tech came out on 12/07 and replaced a bunch of caps (guessing about 12 to 14) on three different boards. After reassembling everything, the blinking light of death was the only thing the set would do. The guy must have spent an additional 8 hours trying to get it working again but no joy. He ordered a complete electronics chassis but they are on back order. Parts are supposed to be in on 1/19.
Don't feel bad, this thing is a nightmare to work on. Good luck.

delar

01-09-08, 03:51 AM

Aside #2: delar, do you think there may have been a subtle improvement when you replaced the FMT caps?No, I did not notice any change after replacing the 1000uf cluster on the FMT board. Later, when I changed the 1000uf cluster on power board, I again noticed no difference in the wavy lines. The signal and DM boards have similar clusters that I have not touched as of yet. If memory serves me correctly, the Term-2 board does not have a cluster of four 1000uf caps on it like the others.So this leads me to believe that something in the standby / always on power supplies or related areas had to warm up.Yeah, we figured that the problem is related to something that is always powered, whether the TV on on or off. Unfortunately it appears that most of the chassis electronics are powered all the time, so this doesn't narrow it down a whole lot.

tbully

01-09-08, 06:43 AM

No, I did not notice any change after replacing the 1000uf cluster on the FMT board. Later, when I changed the 1000uf cluster on power board, I again noticed no difference in the wavy lines. The signal and DM boards have similar clusters that I have not touched as of yet. If memory serves me correctly, the Term-2 board does not have a cluster of four 1000uf caps on it like the others.Yeah, we figured that the problem is related to something that is always powered, whether the TV on on or off. Unfortunately it appears that most of the chassis electronics are powered all the time, so this doesn't narrow it down a whole lot.

Good news on the Term-2. (shew :D) I'll give it a once-over when I'm in there again but I think I agree.

I believe noplasma said it best yesterday, the 6Vs and 12Vs run to almost all boards. The clusters of 1000uf caps likely hang off of one of those rails. These "sub-supplies" (as I call them) likely supply local circuits with the needed voltage(s).

Since these supplies seem to be designed identical (and operate off the same rail(s)), it is plausible that they would all need attention at near the same time in their life. In addition, ripple on one supply on the rail could have a cascading effect on its counterparts on other boards.

I already changed the caps on FMT and DM (which fixed my primary issue - blinking light) and plan on doing the signal and PS this weekend. That sub-supply happens to be on the PS as well, I believe.

I have a strong feeling this will take care of all my issues including the wavy lines. As far as I can tell, nobody has changed all the caps on all the boards yet (with a set that can get through boot) to see if the lines go away.

I also plan on changing a few other caps near heat sources on the PS.

In Summary:

4 x 1000uf on FMT (done)
4 x 1000uf on DM (done)
Random suspect bad solder joints resoldered on PS, DM, and FMT (done)

Problem solved - set boots and after standby PS warm up, the picture looks good with very minor lines (better than before) on the component inputs.

4 x 1000uf on Signal (this weekend)
4 x 1000uf on PS (this weekend)
?? x ????uf on PS (for good measure - this weekend)

This should solve the remaining and very faint lines in my component inputs if what we are speculating is correct. The lines I have now are nowhere near as bad as some have posted.

tbully

01-09-08, 06:56 AM

Sorry to hear about your TV, sounds like the same situation with mine. I placed a service call for the wavy line problem. The tech came out on 12/07 and replaced a bunch of caps (guessing about 12 to 14) on three different boards. After reassembling everything, the blinking light of death was the only thing the set would do. The guy must have spent an additional 8 hours trying to get it working again but no joy. He ordered a complete electronics chassis but they are on back order. Parts are supposed to be in on 1/19.
Don't feel bad, this thing is a nightmare to work on. Good luck.

I'm not sure if you are technically inclined or not but if you can, pay attention when he does the chassis install. I'm interested in what kind of setup needs to occur when buying a new (or rebuilt) chassis. (e.g. geometry, etc) Are these setting stored somewhere besides the "chassis"?

noplasma

01-09-08, 09:46 AM

This should solve the remaining and very faint lines in my component inputs if what we are speculating is correct. The lines I have now are nowhere near as bad as some have posted.

Sounds like a good plan, keep us posted on how it turns out. I would love it if we had this problem solved by the time my TV starts showing it.

John Williams

01-09-08, 02:50 PM

Quick question -- folks (myself included) suffering the wavy line syndrome usually don't see it on the HDMI input. IIRC, it appears more on component with SD (480i) signals vs. HD. Has anyone actually tried to send 480i over HDMI to the set to see if it shows up there? Does the HDMI input even support 480i?

-John

IronHorse

01-09-08, 05:05 PM

Thanks guys.... it the bulb replaced from the side of the tv or front or back ? I need to look it over... I had problems with my media card reader not working, and had it fixed, I also noticed I have no sound out of the tv's speakers ? I wonder if I have no sound input to it or if when the media card was worked on if they left them unplugged ? I don't use the speakers, just my audio system, but I ought to figure it out, it might be a way to get the tech out.

thanks for the info

Do a search under my handle "ironhorse" and find the page where I did the full bulb replacement deal. My section of the thread should be a sticky as I show you step-by-step how to do it with pictures, comments, and tips. This is not that difficult, but I understand it could be somewhat intimidating. Don't be afraid to get inside these sets. You can also search for posts number #4222 & #4223.

mzorola

01-09-08, 07:21 PM

FYI:
I got my DM board today. I will reassemble the chassis tonight and post results. I expect to have things going by about 10:00pm CST. A quick look-over of the DM board shows CAP replacements (including the ones I did!) and some resoldering of the crystals? I did not mark each component so it is a little hard to see what has been changed.

JoeC4745

01-09-08, 08:49 PM

Are these the 3.3V supplies? Has anyone measured them when the set was running? It's tough to do. Mits didn't make this the easiest set to t-shoot when "hot".

Yes, when I was trying to troubleshoot mine I did check the switch mode sub supplies and they were 3.3V on the signal, DM and FMT boards. If I remember right the Term2 was also. There are also several fixed regulators on the boards as that are always on.

Finally got my chasiss today and I have a working set!!!!

The only thing that needs to be done according to the manual is to copy the light engine EPROM to the DM. It's on pg 16 of the service manual. My chassis was $700, with shipping and restock fees for the other boards I had tried this repair probably cost me $900+

technoholic

01-09-08, 10:47 PM

I'm not sure if you are technically inclined or not but if you can, pay attention when he does the chassis install. I'm interested in what kind of setup needs to occur when buying a new (or rebuilt) chassis. (e.g. geometry, etc) Are these setting stored somewhere besides the "chassis"?
I spent 15 years as a field service rep (office machines) not exactly the same as your experience but like to think I have a handle on the essentials. Good question about settings storage... I will post the results when they happen. Luckily, I have an extended warranty so the $$ aren't coming out of my own pocket.

mzorola

01-10-08, 08:09 AM

It is a failure. Still blinking! I am going to go over the reassembly to determine if anything was not properly reasembled. Are there any sensors that check the closure of the set back panel?

Daniel Murray

01-10-08, 08:50 AM

I am not putting any more money in my set. So when it dies it will be replace with a new set but not Mitsubishi!!!!!

noplasma

01-10-08, 09:34 AM

It is a failure. Still blinking! I am going to go over the reassembly to determine if anything was not properly reasembled. Are there any sensors that check the closure of the set back panel?

The only sensors are for the lamp & filter panels. So it looks like the repair effort was unsuccessful since replacing the DM board didn't fix JoeC's problem either. :( It's too bad that JoeC's DM board results came in *after* you sent your DM board off.

Assuming it's the same issue causing this more widespread "blinking green light" problem, process of elimination narrows it down to the Term2 or Format board (JoeC replaced DM & Signal, you replaced DM & Power, and JoeC's chassis replacement fixed it). Someone recently posted some arguments pointing to the Format board. If you were going to send one more board back to PTSCORP, I'd recommend that one.

IronHorse

01-10-08, 10:06 AM

noplasma

01-10-08, 11:03 AM

I've got a local service company finally coming out to check out my 62725 next Saturday morning. My problem seems to be so intermittent that I can't replicate it and I'm wondering what the tech will do if we can't recreate the problem. There appears to be something faulty or erratic in the power-up sequence where some days when I power it up, not all the fans come on so the audio plays, but there's no picture. If I unplug the set from the wall and wait about an hour... then something seems to happen (everything gets cool?) and the set comes on with both audio/video. The bulb is relatively new (bought 6 months from Mits) and I have the latest firmware that Mits sent me a month or so ago. The set is still under the extended warranty and this is my first claim.

You could get a few cans of Freeze Mist and work with your tech to cool down the components on one board at a time until the problem disappears. Have the tech replace that board (or alternately, repeat process on problematic board until the culprit component is identified).

I've only read of this approach but never tried it. Hopefully someone else can speak up if there's anything to be cautious of.

POST-NOTE: I had another thought. Since all of the chassis parts are powered by standby, you might be able to isolate the problematic board by varying which boards get standby power while the TV "sits" prior to a turn-on attempt. (e.g., if you disconnect FC, then the FMT board won't get standby power and will stay cold even if the TV is plugged in. After the TV sits for a while, plug FC back in. If the TV starts when the FMT board is cold and everything else is warm, then you know it's the FMT board)

tbully

01-10-08, 11:39 AM

Yes, when I was trying to troubleshoot mine I did check the switch mode sub supplies and they were 3.3V on the signal, DM and FMT boards. If I remember right the Term2 was also. There are also several fixed regulators on the boards as that are always on.

Congrats JoeC! It's about freaking time! :D

Term2, eh? Darn. I didn't get a good look at what caps need to be changed on that board before putting everything back together. At least it's the easiest (kinda) to get at if I need to go back in. Anyone have their set apart that can give me the values? I think I'll be the first to do a complete cap replacement to try to get rid of the "wavy lines".

BTW, any wavy lines, JoeC? :rolleyes:

tbully

01-10-08, 11:43 AM

The only sensors are for the lamp & filter panels. So it looks like the repair effort was unsuccessful since replacing the DM board didn't fix JoeC's problem either. :( It's too bad that JoeC's DM board results came in *after* you sent your DM board off.

Assuming it's the same issue causing this more widespread "blinking green light" problem, process of elimination narrows it down to the Term2 or Format board (JoeC replaced DM & Signal, you replaced DM & Power, and JoeC's chassis replacement fixed it). Someone recently posted some arguments pointing to the Format board. If you were going to send one more board back to PTSCORP, I'd recommend that one.

I had to replace caps on the FMT board to get my set to fire again. As noplasma and I have been speculating, I believe that the 3.3v supplies work agaisnt each other when one has a problem. It could be in any one (or all) supplies. (or none - I suppose) :(

Leeisfishing

01-10-08, 12:02 PM

I posted a couple weeks back on some findings with the flashing green power led. I have 2 52725 tv's. One is working with wavy lines and one is the flashing green led. I am still waiting on a warranty service call for the wavy line tv. Once they come out and crack the seal I will start boad swapping.

I think the flashing power/timer Led problem is in my format board.

Here is my post from earlier.

I tore it apart and replaced 4 caps on the DM Board, 4 on the format board 2 on the Term 2 board and 6 on the power supply board.

Unfortunately that didn't work. The timer led still flashes continuously and doesn't stop.

I did my voltage checks and found the same voltages as JoeC4745 and Collin

TP3.3V = 0.0
TP5V = 0.83
TP6VS = 7.1
TP12V = 0.02
TP12VS = 12.2
TP+15V = 16.02
TP-15V = -16.0
TP30VS = 30.1

I then read the post that says that the ones not coming up are switched.

At first I was thinking the DM board is bad but I disconnected the FC connector going to the Format board and the power led stopped flashing after 70 sec. I then re-connected the FC connector and hit the power button and all my switched (cold) voltages on the power supply turned on. I am thinking the format board is hanging the processor.

I am hoping when they come out too look at my other tv they break the warranty void seal.
As soon as they do that I can start swapping boards to determine what is causing the flashing green led of death.

As long as the flashing green led of death tv doesn't have the diagonal wavy line problem then I can swap boards and find out which board is causing that also.

tbully

01-10-08, 12:44 PM

At first I was thinking the DM board is bad but I disconnected the FC connector going to the Format board and the power led stopped flashing after 70 sec. I then re-connected the FC connector and hit the power button and all my switched (cold) voltages on the power supply turned on. I am thinking the format board is hanging the processor.

FMT could be hanging the micro or the supply(s) on that board are causing too much noise to allow data to cleanly travserse that module thereby hanging the boot sequence. By unplugging that board, the set can boot, plug the board back in after boot and you're good to go. (theory of course) Have you checked for noise on the 12Vs, 6Vs, or the 3.3V supply on the FMT board?

noplasma

01-10-08, 12:53 PM

FMT could be hanging the micro or the supply(s) on that board are causing too much noise to allow data to cleanly travserse that module thereby hanging the boot sequence. By unplugging that board, the set can boot, plug the board back in after boot and you're good to go. (theory of course) Have you checked for noise on the 12Vs, 6Vs, or the 3.3V supply on the FMT board?

Part of what complicates factors is that I think the flashing green LED is a roll-up signal that means the boot didn't complete -- so there could be a number of different problems that cause it. It could be that in your case that boot failed due to a noisy 6Vs rail, but that something else is causing Lee's problem (since he's replaced most of the relevant caps). Also, I recall your issue was somewhat intermittent, which suggests a thermal dependency relating to bad caps. I don't think Lee, Collin, or JoeC ever saw any intermittent aspects.

tbully

01-10-08, 01:05 PM

Part of what complicates factors is that I think the flashing green LED is a roll-up signal that means the boot didn't complete -- so there could be a number of different problems that cause it. It could be that in your case that boot failed due to a noisy 6Vs rail, but that something else is causing Lee's problem (since he's replaced most of the relevant caps). Also, I recall your issue was somewhat intermittent, which suggests a thermal dependency relating to bad caps. I don't think Lee, Collin, or JoeC ever saw any intermittent aspects.

Yep. You are likely correct. :( I didn't realize the blinking light could be a cause of a failed boot - I just assumed it was because of a "hung" boot or one that never started.

I guess I'm just trying to backtrack to figure out the original cause of the problem. 7.1 volts on a 6 volt regulated standby rail seems high. (AC noise - causing errors in the DC measurement?) Maybe that's normal.

I'll take a look at my TPs when I'm in there this weekend.

I'm a little nervous about TERM-2 now. You don't happen to have your set apart, do you? :D I'm trying to figure out what caps are around the 3.3 supply on that board. Looking at the service manual pictures, I don't see the (bigger) 1000uf caps.

JoeC4745

01-10-08, 01:16 PM

Congrats JoeC! It's about freaking time! :D

Term2, eh? Darn. I didn't get a good look at what caps need to be changed on that board before putting everything back together. At least it's the easiest (kinda) to get at if I need to go back in. Anyone have their set apart that can give me the values? I think I'll be the first to do a complete cap replacement to try to get rid of the "wavy lines".

BTW, any wavy lines, JoeC? :rolleyes:

Yeah, it's been 3 months and counting. The new chassis is a different variation and the two cables to the remote board are different. The originals went direct chassis to RC board, the replacement only goes half way with interconnects. I'm getting extentions in a few days (I hope) so I can finally finish the repair. The new chassis has "warranty void if removed" stickers on the shields, otherwise I would have just changed the cables. Not even sure what the warrenty is on it? Have to check that out.

Without the remote I can't download the LE EEPROM to the DM and because it's still on the kitchen table I am only using it with a UHF antenna for an HD signal. So, No wavy lines yet and by the time they show up you, noplasma and everyone will have figured it out:D If not..... then maybe those new laser-TV's will be reasonably priced....... Then I can go through this again in another 5 years;)