Originally posted by Michael Mohrmann
I am not sure what to think. The NS975V looked no better (my wife says it was worse) than our 5 year-old Onkyo Integra DPS-5 (and 5 year-old Sony DVP-S530D), plus the NS975V had a lip sync problem (direct video connection to TV). Neither of our DVD players are progressive scan.

Yet, many other XS955/WF655 owners have experienced an obvious improvement with the NS975V over their older DVD players. Either we had a defective NS975V, the other owners had crappy DVD players, or our DVD players are better than most sub $500 DVD players today.

Michael

Just thought I'd give a quick note on my experience with the NS975V on a 55XS955. I bought the NS975V from Magnolia Hifi which was their first batch and it too had lip sync delay although I was able to adjust it about 60mS in the menu to alleviate it. I learned by going through the DVE calibration disc that the standard mode of the NS975V appeared to be clipping the 'blacker than black' signals (below NTSC). I adjusted the setting to cinema1 and cinema2 and was able to see the blacker than black bars. The setting worked excellent after reducing brightness and increasing contrast. About a week later the NS975V CD tray would not open and would not play the disc. After finally getting it out I took it back and got it replaced. The new one had a significantly different serial # and had no lip sync problems whatsoever. I have been very happy with the detail level and black levels using HDMI input. I calibrated both HDMI and component and saw no difference in black levels in cinema mode and improved resolution (sharpness) on the HDMI.

NoPlasmaYet wrote:

"Well I started reading about "ideal distances from the screen and 11.5' shows up for the 55" set. OK, my viewing distance (when I'm sitting) is between 11' & 12'. Everything (still looks good), but wait. It seems that this is for HD feeds and many articles recommend sitting further back for SD broadcasts."
You might think about getting a wheel chair and you can adjust accordingly. Just kidding. Actually I am at 11 feet with a 55WF and both HD & SD look good at that distance.

Mtnmike, bigjc

Thanks for your replies. I was all set (no pun intended) to get the 50WE, then I happened to take another look at the 55WF (it was right next to the 50). Well, I found when I moved in the vertical axis, that the 55 looked better. According to Sony's numbers the 50 should be a better. Wouldn't it be so much easier if you could just look at the specs and make your choice?

Anyway, I'm going to burn some DVD's with the programs I watch and see if I can find a store that will play them. Then I'll decide...if not I'll try the coin flip, again (best out of five?).

Originally posted by NoPlasmaYet
Mtnmike, bigjc

Thanks for your replies. I was all set (no pun intended) to get the 50WE, then I happened to take another look at the 55WF (it was right next to the 50). Well, I found when I moved in the vertical axis, that the 55 looked better. According to Sony's numbers the 50 should be a better. Wouldn't it be so much easier if you could just look at the specs and make your choice?

Anyway, I'm going to burn some DVD's with the programs I watch and see if I can find a store that will play them. Then I'll decide...if not I'll try the coin flip, again (best out of five?).

Don't expect to be blown away by DVD's They look good, but not eye poping like pure HD!!!

Originally posted by blackngold19
Don't expect to be blown away by DVD's They look good, but not eye poping like pure HD!!!

I second that. DVD movies look as good as they do at a normal theater, but quality HD programming looks like IMAX.

Originally posted by rambunktious
Andrew:



So I don't need a switch for my HD receiver and DVD player?

I doubt it. In part it depends on the DA converters in your HD reciver and DVD player. The only way to be sure would be to hook up one of them to both HDMI and Component and do some A/B testing.

You may need to do some tweaks to get the best possible image from component.

I would like to take a poll.

What are you guys using to view SD broadcasts?

I typically view them in Wide Zoom which I find doesn't stretch the image as much as Full....but I'm still not 100% satisfied with the image. Because of the zooming, images do get cut off...especially at the bottom...this is noticeable when watching CNN, where the ticker is cut in half. I find that Normal wipes away too much viewable area.

Just wanna know what you are all viewing in this case.

Originally posted by rob_silva
I would like to take a poll.

What are you guys using to view SD broadcasts?



My 36" Toshiba CRT. My new Sony is for DVDs, HD D*, and the Sunday Ticket. Oh, and the future....

Originally posted by NoPlasmaYet
Anyway, I'm going to burn some DVD's with the programs I watch and see if I can find a store that will play them. Then I'll decide...if not I'll try the coin flip, again (best out of five?).

55, baby, 55.... you won't be disappointed... :D

I usually watch SD in letterbox. I find that I just don't like it stretched. Exceptions would be the kid's DVDs like Bob The Builder and Dora. They just love it full screen and I don't really pay attention.

I bought my TV (55" WF) mainly for movies and sports but I have been watching more network primetime shows than usual since most are in HD. I was very disappointed that ESPN did not carry the first two golf tournaments in HD. I'm hoping CBS will this weekend. Football and hoops have been amazing. Can't wait to see Augusta National in HD this April.

I don't watch too much SD anymore - The Golf Channel, news, that's about it.

Tim T


Originally posted by rob_silva
I would like to take a poll.

What are you guys using to view SD broadcasts?

I typically view them in Wide Zoom which I find doesn't stretch the image as much as Full....but I'm still not 100% satisfied with the image. Because of the zooming, images do get cut off...especially at the bottom...this is noticeable when watching CNN, where the ticker is cut in half. I find that Normal wipes away too much viewable area.

Just wanna know what you are all viewing in this case.

Originally posted by rob_silva
I would like to take a poll.

What are you guys using to view SD broadcasts?


If the program is 4:3 we use Normal.
If the program is 16:9 letter box we use Zoom.


Can't deal with stretch.

Originally posted by jmdaniel
55, baby, 55.... you won't be disappointed... :D

I agree, get the 55. I have the 55, and I don't even notice any issues with off-axis viewing. This is much less of an issue than it would be with a CRT-based RPTV.
I was worried about this issue when I was in the buying/deciding stage of my purchase, but once I got the set home, I don't observe any sudden loss in brightness as you go off axis.
I have my set in the corner of a L-shaped room, which includes family room and dining/kitchen area. The set is viewable, with a bright colorful image at up to 45 degees. off center axis. There may be a small amount of detail loss as you get to these large angles, but not to any degree that the picture is unviewable.
It's too easy to look at the user manual and compare the two sets and notice the difference in the viewing angle specifications. I think you see the spec, and are trying to find the effect in the stores. But with a real set in front of your eyes, it is really hard to see any appreciable difference for normal viewing angles. The decrease in brightness as you go off-axis is just not noticeble with these sets.

Originally posted by NoPlasmaYet
Mtnmike, bigjc

Thanks for your replies. I was all set (no pun intended) to get the 50WE, then I happened to take another look at the 55WF (it was right next to the 50). Well, I found when I moved in the vertical axis, that the 55 looked better. According to Sony's numbers the 50 should be a better. Wouldn't it be so much easier if you could just look at the specs and make your choice?

Anyway, I'm going to burn some DVD's with the programs I watch and see if I can find a store that will play them. Then I'll decide...if not I'll try the coin flip, again (best out of five?).

I debated the viewing distance issue before I bought, but I was stuck between the WF55 and WF60. My room is set up such that the TV is angled in a corner. My wife who sits off to the side at about 8 feet away was most concerned about the larger size (we had a 51" before). The other seating postions are in the 12 - 15 ft range. The thought that caused me to go for the WF60 was you are buying a very expensive TV for awesome HD broadcasts and those look great at any distance. The SD is going to look bad in comparison no matter how good it is. So I live with the fuzzier SD channels (heck, they look fuzzy even on my 12" in the bedroom). Since the trend is toward HD (and face it, most of the stuff is going that way, my wife even gets to watch Trading Spaces on Discovery HD), buy the television with how great HD will look and not how bad SD will look. I recommend you go as big as your space (and budget) constraints for placing the TV allow. My wife loves the TV even from 8' away even while watching SD (Can't get any higher validation than that :D). Also, if you don't like the stretch modes for SD, the 4:3 picture on a 60" in normal mode is probably bigger than what you now have.

By the way, the recommended minimum viewing distances in the Sony Manual for the TV's are as follows: 42" - 5.9 ft: 50" - 6.6 ft: 55" - 6.8 ft: and 60" - 7 ft.

Originally posted by rob_silva
I would like to take a poll.

What are you guys using to view SD broadcasts?

We hate stretch modes of all kinds. We watch 4:3 in normal, it's just like having a huge regular tv, with no worry of burn in, there is no reason (from our perspective) to stretch.

Thanks for the replies. It's good to see how others selected the screen size. It's also good to read that people are happy with their Sony's ...

"Oh baby", looks like I'll be doing some serious shopping for my new 55....

It's all about OAR...

I never stretch SD - normal.

There is no reason to stretch a 4:3 signal. There is no risk of burn-in. The only reason to stretch it is if you are insecure about part of the TV not being used...

Oh... and definitely go 55! ;)

Originally posted by DirtRider
Appreciate any feedback to my warranty questions on the 60xs per the following thread (sears) ...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=496789

bump

Originally posted by rob_silva
I would like to take a poll.

What are you guys using to view SD broadcasts?

I typically view them in Wide Zoom which I find doesn't stretch the image as much as Full....but I'm still not 100% satisfied with the image. Because of the zooming, images do get cut off...especially at the bottom...this is noticeable when watching CNN, where the ticker is cut in half. I find that Normal wipes away too much viewable area.

Just wanna know what you are all viewing in this case.

4:3 in Normal always. I HATE the stretch modes. It doesn't look natural.
For non-anamorphic widescreen DVDs, it depends. Some look way too grainy, others are tolerable.

Originally posted by NoPlasmaYet
"Oh baby", looks like I'll be doing some serious shopping for my new 55....

That's m'boy! :D

Hello All -
Been trying to catch up on posts... wowser!! Too many.

I started looking at TV's back in October, still got the 27" JVC that I've had for 7 years (still works great). I, too, agree with NoPlasmaYet - why is buying a TV so confusing these days, LOL. Wasn't like this when the only option was regular ole CRT.

Anyway, couple questions:
1) I see different viewing distance recommendations... currently I sit about 7.5 feet from the tv.... would the 55WF be too big? (I did have the 42WE here for a week before I returned it... I thought I coulda gone bigger.)

2) What price are people paying for the 55" model now? (PM me)

3) What online merchants have you guys used and/or would recommend? Would prefer to buy from BB or CC, but when I check prices on CNET, the online merchants are about 600-800$ cheaper.

4) Extended warranty: worth it or no?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Hey wayde,
As I'm looking for the 55" as well and being from the same locale, I'll chime in.

1) I'll be sitting anywhere from 6-11 feet and am getting the 55WF655
2) Looking to spend less than $3000
3) Sony has a "partial" list of authorized online retailers you can check (HINT: electronics-expo.com)
4) For a $3000 purchase I'm getting one, that covers the bulb

Hello, Wayde. Your distance of 7.5 feet should be fine if you figured 7.5 ft from a 42" was not good enough (screen too small). I sit about 8 ft away and I'm perfectly fine with it. Then again, I love the 'theatrical' feel of HDTV programs and when watching my DVDs. If you feel the same then you should be fine. There are others who would prefer to sit a whopping 15 ft away from a 55"...then again, those are probably the same folks who sit 10 ft away from a 27" screen TV.

In regards to the extended warranty, that's a pretty debated issue. Many folks say buy the EW and watch the TV as much as you can. Once you get the bulb replaced, the EW pretty much pays for itself. If you don't get the bulb burnt out by the time your EW dies, then you lost some money. EW is insurance, and many consider it a 'gamble'. I am getting the EW today before my 30-day deadline because I simply don't feel too confident about this new technology, especially when numerous GWIII folks are having weird "splotch" problems a little over a year of use. I already understand that most of the time you won't get a "better" TV set to replace yours in the case of an unrepairable scenario, but it does feel good to know that in such a case, you will have a "fixed" TV without a problem.

Just make sure whether the EW you are getting will cover the bulb or not. Even this issue itself is highly debated...if you read some warranties, it will say 'consumable' are not covered...but are bulbs covered? Many salespeople will claim so but you will actually have to find out from friends who have actually had their bulb(s) replaced.

Agreed, about the EW being like insurance... I will have to check out the bulb coverage. Would like to buy from BB or CC - do these cover the bulb?

Midnightscape - you in minneapolis? Can you not hook a puter up to the Sony? (I saw you were looking at panny too.) I have a G4 iBook that would be "nice" to hook up to new tv, but not necessary. What stores are you looking at?

Originally posted by wayde
Hello All -
Been trying to catch up on posts... wowser!! Too many.

1...

1) 55 to big? Perhaps. That's about as close as I would want to get.
We sit about 7.5 feet from our 50 and feel that it is just right. The 55 is just too big for our room. Take a good look at the 55 and make sure you like the way it looks from 7.5' before you buy. Will the 55 (and stand) fit in the space you have?


3) You aren't sure what you want. Make sure you buy from a place that has a no questions asked return policy. Find out if they charge you for return freight. CC has a good return policy and generaly a good reputation. Prices aren't the lowest, but they aren't bad. I've been reading good things about Sears too.

Originally posted by wayde
Midnightscape - you in minneapolis? Can you not hook a puter up to the Sony? (I saw you were looking at panny too.) I have a G4 iBook that would be "nice" to hook up to new tv, but not necessary. What stores are you looking at?

No, I'm actually up by Brainerd. You can hook up a puter to the Sony, but from what I've heard there are "pixel mapping" problem or something to that effect. Right now my wife has a wireless laptop that I use for checking email/etc., use my G4 for design/work. I don't like Best Buy here, they don't haggle at all, closest CC is St. Cloud, Sears in Brainerd too small for large screens so nearest is St. Cloud as well. Seriously considering Onecall or Electronics Expo online.

I have a 55" XS and I am having a problem with the sound. If I get a low bass tone coming through the speakers as with music or a rumble, explosion, etc. it will vibrate the back of the set, right by the fan. The vibration makes a loud buzzing sound that coincides with the bass tone.

Through trial and error by playing some hip-hop through the speakers I have found that it seems to be either the metal grate of the fan or the plastic behind it that is vibrating. If I put my finger on it it will stop. I can even push a little on the fan and it will stop for awhile. When the TV cools off and I power it back on the same thing happens again. I have tightened the screws a little more in the fan grate but I can still get it when the bass is high.

Help?

Originally posted by rob_silva
I would like to take a poll. What are you guys using to view SD broadcasts?
I always let the Cable STB stretch SD and enjoy all HD.
Yeah, I'm lazy, but everyone seems so much slimmer in real life now :)

Originally posted by wayde

Anyway, couple questions:
1) I see different viewing distance recommendations... currently I sit about 7.5 feet from the tv.... would the 55WF be too big? (I did have the 42WE here for a week before I returned it... I thought I coulda gone bigger.)
2) What price are people paying for the 55" model now? (PM me)
3) What online merchants have you guys used and/or would recommend? Would prefer to buy from BB or CC, but when I check prices on CNET, the online merchants are about 600-800$ cheaper.
4) Extended warranty: worth it or no?
Thanks in advance for your help.

1. I shift between 13 feet (sitting) and 7 or 8 feet (horizontal, before the set watches me :) ) You should be ok, but no closer.
2. Tough call. shop, shop, shop
3. Went BB, considered CC
4. Bought it for peace of mind. No problems at all, yet - but glad I have it.
E

Originally posted by wayde
3) What online merchants have you guys used and/or would recommend? Would prefer to buy from BB or CC, but when I check prices on CNET, the online merchants are about 600-800$ cheaper.

4) Extended warranty: worth it or no?


When I purchased my KDF-42WE655, I got written quotes from two local retailers, and I printed an even cheaper price from a couple of reputable online merchants. I then took all these to Best Buy and they met the cheapest price - I was very surprised, as they would not do this in the past (especially online prices). Give it a try, I got a *very* good deal this way.

This purchase was the only one I've ever included an extended warranty on. The technology is too new and price tag too high for me not to opt for the EW. If it goes unused, I get 50% BB credit back at the end of the period. They cover the bulb as well.

Jeff

This is where the 55WF really shines. Since the cabinet is a dark gray, it blends very well with the adjacent blank screen when in the 4:3 mode. I would never, ever consider buying any TV with a silver border!! Anyway, I love my 55WF and I was surprised that SD is as good as it is.

Originally posted by NoPlasmaYet
...I started reading about "ideal distances from the screen and 11.5' shows up for the 55" set. OK, my viewing distance (when I'm sitting) is between 11' & 12'. Everything (still looks good), but wait. It seems that this is for HD feeds and many articles recommend sitting further back for SD broadcasts...

I think that in general it is a big, big mistake to compromise your HD viewing experience because of how it might affect your SD experience. IOW, sit where it's right for HD, and let the rest fall into line.

Not that this is not a legitimate concern, as even with a HD set and 12 OTA digital channels, the bulk of my viewing is SD, and will be for some time. When purchasing a HD set it does make sense to get one that will treat SD well. The GWIV's more than meet this requirement, although it does take a bit of tweaking to optimize SD.

HD was designed to be viewed at 3.3 times the screen height, which is only about 7.8 ft. for a 60" set. SD looks blurry in such a setup, but SD always looks blurry because SD has always BEEN blurry compared to HD. If you are 11-12 ft. from a 50 or 55, I think you will definitely be OK with your SD viewing as well. If you Google "viewing distance calculator" you will find a site that explains this in detail.

Finally broke down and bought the WF55. I love this thing. I did lots of research prior to buying and knew the pros and cons to LCD and DLP.

One question I have about the set is - during the HD broadcast of the tonight show with Leno, when the camera pans VERY VERY quickly across the auditorium, i see the screen break up (or pixelate).. I'm trying to figure out if its the LCD or just a problem with compression. I guess the word is artifacting. Any ideas? It happens basically every time the tonight show comes on in the beginning.

Thanks

Brian

Its the way nbc sends it. It even does it on my crt .

It's not how NBC sends it, and it's not the set. It's how the local station shares their bandwidth. They have 19.3 Mb/s to play with, and about 18 of that is reserved for video. If a station multicasts there is a high likelihood of bitstarving during fast motion scenes. My local NBC affiliate does not multicast, and does not have this issue in Leno or otherwise, and the local UPN, FOX, and CBS stations, who also do not multicast, also don't have this problem. The local PBS and ABC stations DO multicast, 3 streams each, and it shows.

Digital HD video can be compressed by a factor of 50 to one or better without any such visible degradation. When compression reaches about 77 to one for 1080i, or 83 to one for 720p, motion starts to artifact pretty obviously. Anything in the middle, well, looks it. This is not a hard and fast indicator of whether a station multicasts, but is a strong indicator of how well they manage their throughput. Sometimes the source, or the network, or even some displays, such as certain DLP displays or combinations of these reasons CAN be to blame for motion artifacting, but usually not. The bottleneck is usually delivery, either by the OTA station, or cable, or DBS, all of which are trying to squeeze the last bit of information into the datastream.

The Sonys do not contribute to the problem at all, and actually tolerate this phenomenon pretty well. LCD blurs just nearly imperceptibly on motion, and while this particular "blur artifact" is indeed created in the display, it isn't at all noticeable, and ironically, it actually helps mask macroblocking artifacts, which are what was described. It won't cover them completely, because usually the macroblocks remain for a period that is longer than the blur period of LCD, but it helps soften the initial blow, the end result being a help rather than a hindrance.

I'm trying to figure out a couple of things. I found some VERY cheap component cables. I have no idea where they came from. You couldn't get any cheaper quality. I used them to hookup the Comcast dual tuner DVR to my GWIV. Does it matter?? Should i get some high quality component cables?

What about a DVI-to-HDMI cable for the connection from DVR to TV? Worth it??

I also haven't hooked up my JVC Progessive Scan DVD player yet. I believe the player is 420p capable. I'm interested if anyone has this type of player (JVC progessive scan) -- any good? recommend anything different?

Brian

Originally posted by skipdog
Finally broke down and bought the WF55. I love this thing. I did lots of research prior to buying and knew the pros and cons to LCD and DLP.

One question I have about the set is - during the HD broadcast of the tonight show with Leno, when the camera pans VERY VERY quickly across the auditorium, i see the screen break up (or pixelate).. I'm trying to figure out if its the LCD or just a problem with compression. I guess the word is artifacting. Any ideas? It happens basically every time the tonight show comes on in the beginning.

Thanks

Brian

I was having problems like that, lots of pixelation with the HD channels. Cox sent a technician, who checked my signal strength and some other things. He said they were all fine. He tried numerous things, but nothing fixed the problem. He came back today with a new cable box (an HD DVR) and now everything is fine. I guess my DVR was just faulty. So as far as I know, it could be weak/compressed signal or a box problem like mine.

On a side note, the Cox guy referred to the pixelation problem as "tiling."

Originally posted by jojo57
Its the way nbc sends it. It even does it on my crt .

I get NBC on WRC-DT OTA in the DC area and I have never seen anything like this on the Leno show. It could be a combination of things like source, STB, cables, etc... but i really don't think it's the TV.

This is a great thread and fantastic forum.

I'm a noob to this site (first post) and just got a WF655. I used to have a Toshiba 52HM84 DLP but returned it for the WEGA after almost 3 weeks (it went back under the 30 day return policy). The 52HM84 is a great TV, especially with the HD2+ chip but I ended up liking the Sony better for a variety of reasons. I don't regret getting rid of the Toshiba. The WF655 is a fantastic TV.

If anyone is debating these two sets here are some things I observed.

The Sony comes with an integrated ATSC tuner, optical out, cable card slot, and is 3" bigger diagonally. The Tosh is 4" thinner and 20 pounds lighter, it starts up quickly and has a nice instant restart feature. Picturewise the DLP is very bright, even on the low setting, but never too bright. Black levels are great and colors are accurate. There are considerably more user adjustments on the WEGA when compared to the relatively spartan 52HM84. The Sony is also very bright and has outstanding picture quality even in SD which is contrary to what i've heard (i'm running regular analog cable). SD on both is actually very good, but better on the Sony. I don't see what the fuss is about LCD black levels....the WEGA is easily comparable to DLP.

Stylewise I like them both, but for different reasons. I did not like the 4" side speakers on the Toshiba even thought the look was minimized by the integrated stand. I love the two tone of the WF655 and the side speakers are much less intrusive visually than the DLP. Both are relatively thin, although the Sony is noticeably thicker. The Sony has the inferior front AV input in my opinion although this is very minor thing. The Toshiba has the better remote and is overall easier to use. Overall the Sony feels sturdier and better made than the Toshiba.

Although both are great the Sony has the edge with all the extras and better picture quality. Pricewise they are very similar, although the Toshiba cost me a couple of hundred dollars less than the WEGA, as stated before, it didn't have nearly the amount of bells and whistles.

Interestingly enough the XS955 and the 52HM84 are both compared head to head in a several page article in the Feb. 2005 issue of "The Perfect Sound and Vision". It is a must have for those looking at both sets. From the research i've done I understand the XS955 and WF655 are virtually identical with the exception of some cosmetic differences, another HDMI input, better speakers and more picture adjustments on the XS.

If you are playing games both sets do a very good job at it. I've not experienced any lag with either set. The DLP looked great out of the box. I still need to calibrate the WF as it is a tad too dark in some instances. The Sony looks noticeably sharper and many of the edge enhancement artifacts that plagued the Tosh seem to be minimized.

DVD Playback on the Toshiba was good, but noticeably better on the WEGA. I was using an SD-5970 with the HDMI output but will be returning it for a DVP-NS975V as it has many annoying features that are becoming increasingly irritating. I hope the Sony player is better than the Toshiba as it is twice the cost and doesn't come with the cable. Anyone have info. on how these two players compare with each other?

I look forward to being able to post pictures and seeing what types of tweaks people are discovering.

GREAT post oi-punx... Welcome aboard. Looking forward to those pics!

OK, I looked at sets (one more time) and I'm convinced that the 55WF is the way to go. Now I just have to decide on where (and of course when) to buy it.

I'd rather go to a merchant who offers a good price, without haggling, but going to Sears and getting a price match & 10% off (if I open a credit card account with them is tempting).

Oh, one more question. Does the TV need to be transported (short distance) in the upright position or can it be laid on it's side?

Upright only....

Originally posted by jmdaniel
Upright only....

Not really true. My TV had to be transported up 3 flights of stairs as it laid on its side on a dolly, and the weak carriers simply dragged the dolly up the steps. I believe my TV has gone through an equivalent of five 9.0 earthquakes.

TV works fine, so I am not complaining. I have the extended warranty so I could care less.

I've posted this question on the GWIV tweaks thread, but thought I'd ask here too:
I'm seeing what appears to be a Y/C delay issue on my 42we655. Specifically, bright colors, particularly red, appears about 1/8 in to the right of the associated brightness (luminance). Most noticable on HD sources, not so much on DVD. Is there a service menu adjustment which addresses this? Any help will be appreciated.

Punx,

I have the same set as you. I've had no issues with the DVD-NS975V. Be sure to get an HDMI cable from one of the forum sponsors or from Blue Jeans Cable. Mine was $30 delivered compared to $100+ for a Monster Cable.

First thing I did was immediately switch my TV off of "Vivid" mode. I find I use "Pro" for most programming. Haven't tweaked much yet. I've been generally happy with the picture.

Tim T

Originally posted by oi-punx

DVD Playback on the Toshiba was good, but noticeably better on the WEGA. I was using an SD-5970 with the HDMI output but will be returning it for a DVP-NS975V as it has many annoying features that are becoming increasingly irritating. I hope the Sony player is better than the Toshiba as it is twice the cost and doesn't come with the cable. Anyone have info. on how these two players compare with each other?

I look forward to being able to post pictures and seeing what types of tweaks people are discovering.

Originally posted by HD_OCD
When I purchased my KDF-42WE655, I got written quotes from two local retailers, and I printed an even cheaper price from a couple of reputable online merchants. I then took all these to Best Buy and they met the cheapest price - I was very surprised, as they would not do this in the past (especially online prices). Give it a try, I got a *very* good deal this way.

This purchase was the only one I've ever included an extended warranty on. The technology is too new and price tag too high for me not to opt for the EW. If it goes unused, I get 50% BB credit back at the end of the period. They cover the bulb as well.

Jeff

HD_OCD,

I guess it depends on the individual store. I spoke to BB and was told that "They didn't even match their own internet prices". They would only match an advertisement from a competing store. With that "Minimum Advertised Selling Price" stuff, everyone advertises the same price. Oh well, on to the next store.......

Let's see if I can ask this question in a way that makes sense.

I just purchased an 60xs955. It has not arrived yet and we're in planning mode. The television is going to be about two inches from the wall.

Is the panel for the inputs recessed significantly from the back fo the tv? Put another way, assuming I will have about two inches of clearance between the television and the wall, how far from the wall will the HDMI input be?

"Let's see if I can ask this question in a way that makes sense.

I just purchased an 60xs955. It has not arrived yet and we're in planning mode. The television is going to be about two inches from the wall.

Is the panel for the inputs recessed significantly from the back fo the tv? Put another way, assuming I will have about two inches of clearance between the television and the wall, how far from the wall will the HDMI input be?"



I have the 55" XS and would say you should be fine (though Sony suggests a 4" clearance on the back).

The back of the TV is somewhat triangular/trapezoidal (if that's a word). So the input panels are probably 4" or so from the deepest part of the TV, if I remember my TV correctly.

I've got my TV about 3-4" from the wall, and have no problems with the connections. At 2", you should be fine as well.

Originally posted by lark
Let's see if I can ask this question in a way that makes sense.

I just purchased an 60xs955. It has not arrived yet and we're in planning mode. The television is going to be about two inches from the wall.




Sony recommends a minimum of 4 inches from the wall for proper ventilation.

I just got my 60WF655 today and I am disappointed in the pq. DVDs look great on it but the HD is not nearly as good as my 5 year old 61HS10.

I'll give it a day or two and play with some tweaks, but if I can't get it looking any better I'll probably return it. It's a shame because I love the much smaller footprint.

Originally posted by dmbatch
I just got my 60WF655 today and I am disappointed in the pq.

Disappointed in what ways? Maybe we can help you out in some of your issues.

It's just not as clear and crisp as my old CRT RPTV. It's brighter in daylight but the contrast and black levels are no where near as good in dimmer light. The SDE is very noticeable on light colors. The picture itself is just not as detailed. I was watching the inauguration in ABC in HD and I couldn't even read the license plates on the front of the cars. I replayed Lost, which I watched this morning on my old set, and definitely noticed a difference in clarity and sharpness.

Dave,

I'll ask the obvious question: what video settings are you using right now?

Michael

I haven't messed with them yet. I have tried the standard, pro and vivid as they came with the set. The standard actually looks the best to me.

I plan on going through the tweaks thread this weekend and seeing what I can do to improve things. Maybe I'm just spoiled because the pq on my Sony 61HS10 was very good. The reason I went went for a new set is because my viewing room is very bright with 2 skylights, a french patio door and other windows. The set is definitely brighter in daylight but the pic still isn't as good.

Originally posted by dmbatch
I haven't messed with them yet. I have tried the standard, pro and vivid as they came with the set. The standard actually looks the best to me.

I plan on going through the tweaks thread this weekend and seeing what I can do to improve things.
Just be sure that the Brightness setting is not too high. Usually, lowering the Brightness setting (say between 22-27) and raising the Picture setting (say between 53-58) helps, as does setting the Power Saving to Reduced. Select a Color Temperature of either Neutral or Warm before adjusting. A calibration DVD will also help.

Originally posted by dmbatch
Maybe I'm just spoiled because the pq on my Sony 61HS10 was very good. The reason I went went for a new set is because my viewing room is very bright with 2 skylights, a french patio door and other windows. The set is definitely brighter in daylight but the pic still isn't as good.
You may also be someone who prefers CRT RPTVs over the other RPTV offerings, or at least this particular Sony RPTV. No harm in that, especially if you can return the TV for a refund.

Michael

This is a question about "showing" channels currently not in the system for our 55XS955. We are connected via Comcast cable and only have the basic and extended service. No HD programming or STBs, just a straight coax connection to the TV.

We ran the Auto-Program function in the TV to find all analog and digital channels available on our cable TV service last month. I then went into the menus and set the "digital music" channels to Hidden plus a few other nonsense channels to Hidden.

I determined today that some of our HD local channels are available but not programmed into the TV. So, I went into Show/Hide Channels function and tried to add these channels, but I could not. The channels are numbered 116.1, 117.1, 117.2, etc. Channels 116 and 117 show up in the setup menu, but 116- and 117- do not (these allow you to set the digital sub-channels).

So, I am guessing that we need to rerun the Auto-Program function again to add these channels, unless there is another way. Is there another way that is a lot quicker? While the 50-60 minutes it takes to run the Auto-Program function isn't that bad, going in and hiding the digital music channels is a royal pain.

Michael

50 Minutes later.

try this

Originally posted by jojo57
50 Minutes later.
Plus the time to go back in and delete the digital music and garbage channels.

Oh well, that makes item #3 I would like to see added to the firmware for the XS955.

Michael

Originally posted by jojo57
try this

Attachment: dscf0188.jpg (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=5028816&fullpage=1)
If I didn't know any better, I'd think you were trying to tell me something important! ;)

Michael

Originally posted by Michael Mohrmann
Oh well, that makes item #3 I would like to see added to the firmware for the XS955.

Michael What was #1 and #2?

Originally posted by Buck's SCSWOriginally posted by Michael Mohrmann
Oh well, that makes item #3 I would like to see added to the firmware for the XS955.
What was #1 and #2?
#1 is to have an adjustable Mute display setting. This would allow the user to select to have the Mute "box" stay on screen until the TV is "unmuted" or have the Mute "box" flash for a short time, say 5 seconds, then turn off (but the TV remains muted).

#2 is much more demanding and most likely not doable. I wish that the Vivid and Standard modes could be used as Pro modes. Rather than go into the Pro mode and make slight adjustments to the Picture and Brightness settings depending on time of day and light in the room, just have customized Pro modes handle the different light conditions. You could tweak Vivid and Standard to get close, but having essentially 3 Pro modes per source input would be useful.

#3 is, based on my last post, the ability to add any channel, analog or digital, to the channel selection without having to go through the Auto-Program function.

None of these are show stoppers, just features I think would make the TV a little more flexible.

Michael

Originally posted by Michael Mohrmann
[B]What was #1 and #2?
#1 ...
#2 ...
#3 ...

Michael,

These are all, of course, 'do-able' because they are under control of the software running in the TV. Whether Sony would bother to release a software update which adds such features is doubtful, however. Also, I think they market in a way such that additional user control of the set comes only as you buy the more expensive sets.

As to your programming of additional channels into the channel list, I think what you are trying should work. Go into the show/hide menu and "show" the channels of interest.

Unfortunately, if the channels are on the cable, but in an encrypted format, you won't be able to add them (without an authorized CableCard).

Dave

P.S. (Personally, I would add another to your list
I'll call it #0 (so it gets higher priority than your requests :-)
Have the analog audio output to ALWAYS BE ON, without requiring me to TURN OFF the speakers in the set.

Originally posted by davis03
P.S. (Personally, I would add another to your list
I'll call it #0 (so it gets higher priority than your requests :-)
Have the analog audio output to ALWAYS BE ON, without requiring me to TURN OFF the speakers in the set.
Yep, another good one. My 11 year-old Mits 35" tube TV had that. It wasn't too useful for us, but I can see where it might be for some people.

The channels in question are not encrypted, they are HD local channels. I should be able to add those to the TV's channel list as needed through the Show/Hide setup menu, but because the TV didn't see any available sub-channels in the 116 and 117 range, 116- and 117- don't show up (115- shows up because 115.3 was found during Auto-Program).

The Mute display feature was also on our old Mits tube. When you pressed the mute button, you would see "Muting" being displayed for 5-10 seconds, then it disappeared.

As far as I can tell, Sony's preset Vivid and Standard modes are the only ones I know of that have some part of their settings fixed. Most TVs start with a canned set of values for their various display modes, but in almost all cases you can change every value available in the video menus. But not with the Sony LCD RPTVs (I can't speak to the other Sony TVs).

Michael

Michael,

Congrats on your new set. We live about 5 miles from each other. I have exactly the same cable setup as you do and got several HD channels including all the Digital music channels. I have several movie channels in HD, not sure exactly what they are yet but they are between 105 and 115.

On another note I can finally post pics! Here's a comparison of my setup before I returned my Toshiba 52HM84 DLP for my WF655. The lighting was poor and the pics are a bit compressed but you get the point.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-12/901403/52HM84_01.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-12/901403/image0001.jpg

Hey Michael,like this one!
This is what I`m replacing Mitsubishi 35",circa 1994,

Originally posted by jojo57
Hey Michael,like this one!
This is what I`m replacing Mitsubishi 35",circa 1994,
Ours was purchased 1993-4, model #CS-35601, speakers at the sides hidden by speaker cloth rather than at the bottom of the TV. It is now owned by someone who previously had a small (<27") TV.

Michael

Hi everyone I just purchased a 60XS955 and the HD doesn't work! I tried connecting my Charter cable HD set-top box with component cables to the component HD connections at input 5 and 6 and neither works. I also tried this with DVD player that also has component and neither work. I see something but the screen moves to the left and it's blurry. Anyone have the same problem?

Originally posted by Michael Mohrmann
This is a question about "showing" channels currently not in the system for our 55XS955. We are connected via Comcast cable and only have the basic and extended service. No HD programming or STBs, just a straight coax connection to the TV.

We ran the Auto-Program function in the TV to find all analog and digital channels available on our cable TV service last month. I then went into the menus and set the "digital music" channels to Hidden plus a few other nonsense channels to Hidden.

I determined today that some of our HD local channels are available but not programmed into the TV. So, I went into Show/Hide Channels function and tried to add these channels, but I could not. The channels are numbered 116.1, 117.1, 117.2, etc. Channels 116 and 117 show up in the setup menu, but 116- and 117- do not (these allow you to set the digital sub-channels).

So, I am guessing that we need to rerun the Auto-Program function again to add these channels, unless there is another way. Is there another way that is a lot quicker? While the 50-60 minutes it takes to run the Auto-Program function isn't that bad, going in and hiding the digital music channels is a royal pain.

Michael

I had the exact same issue with my 60WF655 with the same channels you mentioned (116.1 etc). I had the same thoughts so I reran the Auto-Program and it generated the exact same list (no subchannels for 116 and 117). I gave up since I have a cable box. It would be nice to have these available in case the cable box goes bad and a repair stop is several days away. Post if you find a successful solution.

Originally posted by drengka
I had the exact same issue with my 60WF655 with the same channels you mentioned (116.1 etc). I had the same thoughts so I reran the Auto-Program and it generated the exact same list (no subchannels for 116 and 117). I gave up since I have a cable box. It would be nice to have these available in case the cable box goes bad and a repair stop is several days away. Post if you find a successful solution.

I live in IL too and my 60xs picked up all the local broadcast hd channels with the exact same service and broadband. Since then I have had my service upgraded to the dual tuner dvr with digital plus and broadband. Works like a charm. The $87 per month now isn't bad but when it gets off promo in 4 months and goes to about $115 I will be rethinking things (or getting on another promo).

Originally posted by Michael Mohrmann
I determined today that some of our HD local channels are available but not programmed into the TV. So, I went into Show/Hide Channels function and tried to add these channels, but I could not.

Michael, I do not believe the problem resides in your TV, but your cable provider. You should ask Cox to see if they require you to subscribe to their "HD basic" package or something in order to receive your locals in HD.

In my case, for example, in San Diego Time Warner Cable does not broadcast UPN or WB in HD, but it does indeed broadcast PBS, ABC, NBC, FOX, and CBS in HD (as a subchannel with .1 after the analog channel). Sometimes cable carriers are funky and might or might not broadcast certain locals in HD/digital.

Originally posted by knight996
Hi everyone I just purchased a 60XS955 and the HD doesn't work! I tried connecting my Charter cable HD set-top box with component cables to the component HD connections at input 5 and 6 and neither works. I also tried this with DVD player that also has component and neither work. I see something but the screen moves to the left and it's blurry. Anyone have the same problem?

Can anyone help me on this? Already called BB to come take a look but just wondering if anyone had the same problem

Originally posted by knight996
Hi everyone I just purchased a 60XS955 and the HD doesn't work! I tried connecting my Charter cable HD set-top box with component cables to the component HD connections at input 5 and 6 and neither works. I also tried this with DVD player that also has component and neither work. I see something but the screen moves to the left and it's blurry. Anyone have the same problem?

Doesn't sound good... Have you tried plugging your cable's coax straight into the set's "cable" input? You'll then need change to that input and go into the menu and select the auto channel function.

I hope it works out well for you....

Originally posted by knight996
Hi everyone I just purchased a 60XS955 and the HD doesn't work! I tried connecting my Charter cable HD set-top box with component cables to the component HD connections at input 5 and 6 and neither works. I also tried this with DVD player that also has component and neither work. I see something but the screen moves to the left and it's blurry. Anyone have the same problem?

Considering you've tried multiple devices and different inputs I would say the TV is not working properly. Call the people you bought it from and let them take care of it.

Originally posted by dmbatch
It's just not as clear and crisp as my old CRT RPTV. It's brighter in daylight but the contrast and black levels are no where near as good in dimmer light. The SDE is very noticeable on light colors. The picture itself is just not as detailed. I was watching the inauguration in ABC in HD and I couldn't even read the license plates on the front of the cars. I replayed Lost, which I watched this morning on my old set, and definitely noticed a difference in clarity and sharpness.

There is no way that the 51HS510 looks better in HD than any SONY LCD. Maybe it looks better in SD. I'm not sure what your issues are???

Windex and paper towels are not good for the plastic GWIV screen.

The Operating Instuctions say to use a cloth dampened with water and mild detergent.

How do you clean your screen?

Originally posted by blackngold19
There is no way that the 51HS510 looks better in HD than any SONY LCD. Maybe it looks better in SD. I'm not sure what your issues are???

I've now had 3 days to look at this set and it's not getting any better. I've tried some of the settings recommended to me but there is still no improvement in the clarity. I'm very disappointed with it.

BTW, it's a 61HS10 and the HD definitely looks better. In fact, the WF pic looks dirty in comparison. Maybe I've got a defective set.

OK, I had to see for myself if what I perceived was if fact true. I set the two up side-by-side and fed one of my HD STB's into the old set and the other into the new set. I looked at both HD and SD channels for the comparison.

The new WF is definitely brighter and the colors are more vivid, but the HS has better picture definition and detail. Also the contrast and black levels are better on the HS along with black crush.

I feel that if I spend some time on tweaking I can probably minimize the difference and the WF will overall be the better set. I can live with a slightly degraded clarity for the brightness of the WF. In fact, after a while I'll probably not even notice.

Originally posted by dmbatch
OK, I had to see for myself if what I perceived was if fact true. I set the two up side-by-side and fed one of my HD STB's into the old set and the other into the new set. I looked at both HD and SD channels for the comparison.

The new WF is definitely brighter and the colors are more vivid, but the HS has better picture definition and detail. Also the contrast and black levels are better on the HS along with black crush.

I feel that if I spend some time on tweaking I can probably minimize the difference and the WF will overall be the better set. I can live with a slightly degraded clarity for the brightness of the WF. In fact, after a while I'll probably not even notice.

Just curious, but after the above, did you switch the STB to feed the other so that if a double positive occurred you could eliminate the STB as a cause? Of course if its the STB, the performance will switch, too. :)

E

Actually, I did switch them. The two STBs have a very similar picture though, so it didn't really change anything. If I had to say one was better than the other I would say the TiVo was slightly better and that's the one that was connected to the WF originally.

BTW, don't get me wrong here, the WF655 has a very nice picture on it. I was just expecting it to be a big improvement on my 5 yo CRT RPTV. If you saw the 2 side-by-side I think you would be impressed with how good the old set looks.

Maybe you are one of the rare folks who just prefers CRTs. Also, larger sets will not look as good on SD (or HD if too close) from the same distance. The only true comparison is to view from the same number of picture heights away from them.

Originally posted by TomCat
Maybe you are one of the rare folks who just prefers CRTs.
Great minds think alike! ;)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5028316#post5028316

If the CRT is still working well, I would seriously considering returning the 60WF655 and waiting another year or so. By that time, the 1080p should be on the market or close to it.

Michael

Originally posted by TomCat
Maybe you are one of the rare folks who just prefers CRTs. Also, larger sets will not look as good on SD (or HD if too close) from the same distance. The only true comparison is to view from the same number of picture heights away from them.

Yeah, that might be it. The CRT's don't have a "native resolution" and display a true 1080i pic and it's possible that it just looks better to me.

The old set has a 61" 4:3 screen for SD which is larger than what the WF displays SD in standard mode. I would rate them about the same for SD material in clarity. I did go onto the service menu on the HS and set the DRC to 480P instead of 960I and that helped the SD a bit.

As far as HD size, when the HS is in 16:9 mode it's the equivalent of a 56" widescreen. You might have a point on distance since I sit about 10' from the screen. Maybe I should trade in the 60WF for a 55XS. :D

Hi everyone -
I have been researching (for more hours than I imagined possible) my first big screen HD set. It was not an easy process, but finally, in no small part thanks to the information gleaned from the forum here I've decided on the Sony 55WF655. I am now awaiting delivery and in the meantime I'm getting a few things in order such as adding a UHF antenna for OTA reception, finding a stand, etc.
My question to the other owners out there concerns DVD playback. I currently use a Sony DVP NC685V because I like listening to SACDs as well as movie watching. (It was rated well by The Perfect Vision - I just bought it because it was progressive scan, played SACDs, and is a 5 disc changer). Is there going to be a big difference in PQ if I go with a progressive scan player w/ HDMI out over my current player? It seems like I've read posts from owners that are happy with either. I understand the possibility of HD DVD's looming out there in the future adds to the decision process, so I'm almost disinclined to upgrade based on that alone. On the other hand - my first reason for getting this TV is for DVD watching, followed by gaming and lastly - watching broadcast TV. So if anyone has experience with my particular player (I suppose not that likely) or has (or has not for that matter) noticed a big difference upgrading to players with HDMI or DVI outputs - I'd appreciate your opinions.

Thanks bunches.

Todd

The one thing I really like about my new WF655 is how DVD's look on it. I just have a progressive scan Sony DVD player with component out and DVD's look absolutely stunning. I was thinking of upgrading to a player with a scaler and DVI or HDMI out, but after seeing the PQ from player I already have I'm not wasting my money.

I'm still using an old 480i Pioneer DVD player (DV-525) through component and am very happy with the picture quality on my 55XS955. I have decided to wait awhile and see if the HD-DVD formats get worked out before upgrading. These TV's do a great job doing the upconverting themselves. I'm going to upgrade my DirecTV system to HD first.

Chris

Originally posted by TomCat
If you're concerned, get the Sony stand and strap it in. If not, you can still connect a piece of aircraft cable to the strap connector on the back of the Sony and secure it to any stand.

Does anyone know where to get the "aircraft cable" Tomcat suggested, with plug that will fit in to the strap connector on the back of the Sony 60WF655. I am not looking to buy Sony stand, but still want to secure the TV as I have small kids running around the TV, who have the potential to bring anything down in their way.

Originally posted by vish
Does anyone know where to get the "aircraft cable" Tomcat suggested, with plug that will fit in to the strap connector on the back of the Sony 60WF655. I am not looking to buy Sony stand, but still want to secure the TV as I have small kids running around the TV, who have the potential to bring anything down in their way.

He is probably just referring to cable ties. The plastic things that click as you pull them tighter. They are used to hold wires together many times and you can find them at a hardware store or radio shack.

Hey all,

I have been an advid reader for about 4 months now and just bought the Sony GW KDF-50WE655. Thanks for all the info that is on the board.

Next steps are to callibrate it and get HD. My cable system is Charter and they only offer 3 HD channels in my area for an extra 4 bucks a month. I am probably gonna do it just to get the new box but really want HD for the main stations (CBS, FOX..etv)

Thanks again.

Help!!!
I am returning a 42we655 because of HDMI problems with a Denon 955/2910 DVD player. I've been researching various forums regarding Mit DLP 725 series and the Sony XS & WF LCD sets. I've seen the green push of the Mit at BB and have concerns with the lamp of the Mit.

Is the video processing via HDMI the same for WE,XS and WF sets?

If what I understand is correct then the only advantage XS > WF would be sound quality (use my audio components almost exclusively) and more user control of PQ.

Thanks in advance for your help

Originally posted by scannerman
I am returning a 42we655 because of HDMI problems with a Denon 955/2910 DVD player... Is the video processing via HDMI the same for WE,XS and WF sets?
I would expect similar performance between the models with HDMI sources.

Originally posted by scannerman
If what I understand is correct then the only advantage XS > WF would be sound quality (use my audio components almost exclusively) and more user control of PQ.
The XS955 has two HMDI inputs, the WF has one HDMI input.

Michael

OK, I don't know what's going on here but the pic on my 60WF655 is getting much better. I am watching the NFC game on FOX-HD and it looks absolutely stunning.

I read in the owners manual that a set stored in the cold and then brought into a warm house could get fogging on the optics. I wouldn't think it would last 3 days but that's almost like what I was experiencing. It looked like a clear pic with something in front of it.

Whatever happened I'm not complaining because this set now looks like I expected. I'm now a very happy GWIV owner.

Except for the built in tuner, memory cards, and whatnot, is there a major difference in technology between the GWIV and GWIII's?

Originally posted by dmbatch
[B]OK, I don't know what's going on here but the pic on my 60WF655 is getting much better. I am watching the NFC game on FOX-HD and it looks absolutely stunning. [B]

Probably just the source is getting better. BTW, Fox's HD is very bad quality (Fox has internal problems)...especially from the long distance cameras. Hopefully you watched the AFC championships on CBS...now that was a lot better in quality. A shame the Superbowl will be on Fox.

CBS looked incredible too. FOX didn't look bad, just not as good as CBS. Some of the field level shots on CBS looked almost 3D.

I really don't think it had anything to do with the source. I went back and watched the same Lost that I had recorded and it looked much better too. The best way to describe it is it looked like it had a dirty screen that was masking the pic. Very subtle, but still noticeable enough to affect the clarity.

The truth is, I really don't know why it looked the way it did for the first couple of days. I'm just glad it looks good now.

Did anyone else notice that the volume during the Patriots/Steelers on ABC HD, kept fading in and out? I do not have a surround system set up yet and was utilizing the TV speakers on my KDF55WF655.

Originally posted by UECHI
Did anyone else notice that the volume during the Patriots/Steelers on ABC HD, kept fading in and out? I do not have a surround system set up yet and was utilizing the TV speakers on my KDF55WF655.

I noticed it happening more during the beginning of the game. It got better as the game went on. I thought it was our local CBS station making some tweaks since this playoff game was the very first show that was broadcast in HD on Time Warner. CBS finally allowed TW to broadcast their HD signal... finally! They gave us 1 football game in HD this season ... thanks.

Originally posted by vish
Does anyone know where to get the "aircraft cable" Tomcat suggested, with plug that will fit in to the strap connector on the back of the Sony 60WF655. I am not looking to buy Sony stand, but still want to secure the TV as I have small kids running around the TV, who have the potential to bring anything down in their way.

Another option would be to call Sony and order the clip that comes with the stand (SU-GW12), and then just buy a strap that fits it at Lowe's or Home Depot, then retro-fit it to the stand that you buy. This is what I did. I just got the clip the other day and bought the strap that fits it from Ace Hardware. The clip cost $10 and change delivered from Sony and the strap was like $3 I think. To be honest, though, I may not even install it, because I've had my 60wf for 3 weeks now, and I'm more satisfied than I thought I would be with how solid it sits on the stand that I purchased for it.

If you're still interested, though, here's what to do:
Go to Sonystyle.com and click 'Customer Support' and then 'Contact Us', then look for the number to the Sony Parts Center. You can also go to the product description for the SU-GW12 Stand and download the pdf of the User Manual. It might help if you have trouble describing what you're looking for.

Good luck.

I gave Sony a call and they say that "Tocabi" makes that stand for them and I'm to give them a call. I haven't yet, but I'll give this a shot tomorrow.

Thanks for the help Jimmy!

I finally got an answer from Sony regarding the use of a VCR of DVR with a CableCard connection - YOU CAN'T!! While I don't want to bad mouth Sony because I love my WF55, but what the heck were there engineers thinking???

Originally posted by richjam
I finally got an answer from Sony regarding the use of a VCR of DVR with a CableCard connection - YOU CAN'T!! While I don't want to bad mouth Sony because I love my WF55, but what the heck were there engineers thinking???

Rich, I was already aware of that and it indeed is a shame. It would be great if I could record the many shows out there that I can't watch (either I'm working, or watching another show, or it's the soaps for my woman). I guess you pay for what you get...the XBR's and the Qualia 006, while they may be much more expensive, come with firewire/iLink outputs/inputs, making those sets ready for DVR/DVHS recording.

You still have solutions, however - if you insist on using a CableCARD (because you don't like how your analog SD looks after going through the STB's tuner) but still want a DVR, then rent BOTH of them. Split the main coaxial cable, have one end go into the TV and the other end go into the DVR. Hook up the DVR using either HDMI or component into the TV. Use the CableCARD's input when viewing SD content or HDTV content. Use the DVR to view recorded content or HDTV (since HDTV signals show almost no defects even when going through an STB; this might even apply to even digital SD broadcasts as well). The 'hassle' in this method would be having to deal with an extra remote (for the DVR), and to switch between inputs when changing sources. Not really that big if you consider the pros...and the CableCARD is what, just $3/month? Not only that, but you'd get on-demand stuff (and other things like the interactive guide and whatnot) with the DVR. Furthermore, some cable companies actually require you to get an STB if you want to get specific HD channels (i.e. Discovery HD). At least in my case with Time Warner Cable.

OK, I'm still hunting for the best deal on the 55WF and I have a question. Would any of you purchase the TV from a place with this policy:

"Special Freight Items: Certain items cannot be shipped via traditional shipping methods because of size, weight and handling considerations and must be shipped via special freight. These items include, but are not limited to, any Television or Display 20 Inches in size and above, Plasma Displays, LCD Televisions, Floor Standing Speakers, Furniture and large Home Theater In A Box Systems. You will be informed if an item you ordered will be shipped via special freight. These items cannot be returned and there are no refunds or exchanges on these items. Please be certain about a particular product when ordering any item that is a special freight item and read our shipping policy carefully pertaining to these items. Please inspect all shipments carefully upon arrival and before signing for the shipment. Once signed for, a shipment is considered received and approved by the customer."

First thing, I'm not one to return items, but this policy makes me uncomfortable. Any comments?

Thanks.

Originally posted by jimmyv99
Another option would be to call Sony and order the clip that comes with the stand (SU-GW12), and then just buy a strap that fits it at Lowe's or Home Depot, then retro-fit it to the stand that you buy. ....

That's really helpful info Jimmy. I may actually nail the strap in to stud in the wall behind the TV instead of the stand itself. I'll talk to sonystyle contact today.

Another question, which stand did you get for your TV? I am still looking for a good stand.

Originally posted by DaverJ
I gave Sony a call and they say that "Tocabi" makes that stand for them and I'm to give them a call. I haven't yet, but I'll give this a shot tomorrow...

Do you have Tocabi's#? Let us know whether you found the clip at Tocabi. Thanks..

Originally posted by vish
Another question, which stand did you get for your TV? I am still looking for a good stand.

I ordered my stand from Pottery Barn (http://ww1.potterybarn.com/cat/pip.cfm?src=schi1%7Cp1%7Cwtv%5Csstand&pkey=sa1s00stand%2Ctv&gids=p4715). You can check it out in the link. We have shelves next to the TV so we did not need to have a place to store components below the TV. It's a very nice stand, though, and if you need, you can store components in it too.

Also, it looks like the price has gone down some since I bought it. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by NoPlasmaYet
Please inspect all shipments carefully upon arrival and before signing for the shipment. Once signed for, a shipment is considered received and approved by the customer

That's one of the biggest offsides for ordering online. Especially when getting a GWIV, you'll have to go through an auto-programming setup before you can start watching broadcast TV. Sure, you can sign the paper once you initially inspect it for *cosmetic* damages but whether you have any internal damage is at question (i.e. problems with the input board, problems with the display, stuck/conspicuous pixels, geometry issues).

If the TV arrives defective, then you can at least try to remedy the problems using the manufacturer warranty...but be warned that you might actually have to lug your TV out to the closest Sony-authorized repair center.

That is incredibly 'shady' however when the store says that once you sign the delivery invoice, you cannot exchange or return the set, let alone refund it.

Shipping companies will probably hate me for saying this, but I think the answer to this problem is to very very carefully inspect the box when it arrives and note on the bill of lading any possible evidence that shows possible internal damage to the television.

Originally posted by vish
Do you have Tocabi's#? Let us know whether you found the clip at Tocabi. Thanks..

I did not need to contact Tocabi when I ordered my clip. I did however tell Sony that I bought an open-box SU-GW12 and that it didn't come with a clip. They said that I need to take that up with whoever sold it to me, but when I offered to pay for a new one, they went ahead and placed the order for me. I'm not sure if that [white lie] was necessary but I figured it was the easiest way to get them to understand what I needed, and it still took a while. It was helpful to have the user manual in front of me. The product was shipped from Sony, though.

I wouldn't sign until it was unpacked and tested.

Price the set on Pricegrabber, and find a B&M that will come close. You know what I paid for mine, it was a very good deal, and right here in Austin. Know your walk away point, and stick to it. For as much as you have agonized over a few hundred $, between the 50 and the 55, why do you want to give up your return policy, just to save a hundred or two by getting it on line? What if you don't like the set, and want a smaller/bigger? Good luck...

Originally posted by jimmyv99
I ordered my stand from Pottery Barn (http://ww1.potterybarn.com/cat/pip.cfm?src=schi1%7Cp1%7Cwtv%5Csstand&pkey=sa1s00stand%2Ctv&gids=p4715). You can check it out in the link. We have shelves next to the TV so we did not need to have a place to store components below the TV. It's a very nice stand, though, and if you need, you can store components in it too.

Also, it looks like the price has gone down some since I bought it. :rolleyes:

I went with the unit pictured in the attached link for a 60xs955. Although you can't find it on the web site, this company also makes a 20" high credenza that fits between the piers in this unit and is about an inch wider on either side than the 60xs.

http://planetkwazar.com/cpd/georgetown.htm

Originally posted by DirtRider
He is probably just referring to cable ties. The plastic things that click as you pull them tighter. They are used to hold wires together many times and you can find them at a hardware store or radio shack.

No, actually he isn't. Aircraft cable is stranded steel cable available at any large hardware store. It is used commercially as a safety measure for TV sets that are on hanging platforms in public areas. Cable ties isn't a bad idea, tho.

Originally posted by Squawks
Probably just the source is getting better. BTW, Fox's HD is very bad quality (Fox has internal problems)...especially from the long distance cameras. Hopefully you watched the AFC championships on CBS...now that was a lot better in quality. A shame the Superbowl will be on Fox.

As someone who has unimpeachable first-hand sources within FOX and has seen FOX HD with my own eyes to boot, I say horse puckey! Maybe there is a problem in your market with the local station, or maybe there is a problem with your set, maybe your set rescales 1080 better than it does 720, maybe your cable or DBS provider (or however you receive FOX) just blows, but to state that FOX has technical problems is at best incorrect and at worst irresponsible, even if you actually DID know what you were talking about. FOX OTA HD looks as good or better than CBS in most markets, both in NFL and other programming. To state otherwise without really knowing what you're talking about is just shameful.

Originally posted by jmdaniel
Price the set on Pricegrabber, and find a B&M that will come close. You know what I paid for mine, it was a very good deal, and right here in Austin. Know your walk away point, and stick to it. For as much as you have agonized over a few hundred $, between the 50 and the 55, why do you want to give up your return policy, just to save a hundred or two by getting it on line? What if you don't like the set, and want a smaller/bigger? Good luck...

Jm,

Yes, your advice is good and I agree with it. I'm not buying it online due to the reasons you stated.

I posted the shipping policy because it's from Expo Electronics. They are a B&M store. I received different answers (from them regarding pricing & policy) on the phone & in the store. The bottom line is "All Big Screen TV sales are final" at the their store & on the internet. So it pays to be careful & ask questions.

Is it possible to get the Sony remote to control the D* SD STB? Does anyone know the code for a Sansung box?

BTW I put up an OTA antenna in my Attic over the weekend. HD looks great and it's free. Yes, I'm proud of myself.

Originally posted by NoPlasmaYet
Jm,

Yes, your advice is good and I agree with it. I'm not buying it online due to the reasons you stated.

I posted the shipping policy because it's from Expo Electronics. They are a B&M store. I received different answers (from them regarding pricing & policy) on the phone & in the store. The bottom line is "All Big Screen TV sales are final" at the their store & on the internet. So it pays to be careful & ask questions.

Wow. Run, don't walk, away from a B&M like that....

I've been looking for an HDTV for my parents for a few weeks now. I've done WAY too much research and have basically decided that all HDTVs have their issues and the pace at which they are replaced by newer models is dizzying. But I have to stop this back and forth nonsense and countless hours on the 'net (mostly this forum) and buy something in the next 24 hours. I started reading this thread because I narrowed the chioces down to the Sony KDF42WE655 and the Samsung HLP4674W. I got to page 12 and thought, "Hmmmm, I wonder how many more pages there are..." I skipped to "last page" and to my horror saw I was well past page 100! I just can't read them all especially since most are unrelated to the actual PQ and features of the 42we655. Can anyone summarize the pros and cons of this TV? My parents watch almost entirely sports and DVDs. They're really not too picky about AV gear but I want them to get something they will be happy with for a while. Thanks!

Originally posted by TomCat
FOX OTA HD looks as good or better than CBS in most markets, both in NFL and other programming.

Uhhhhh, wow. Something is wrong with your equipment, your eyes, or both. Wow. Please, go to the HDTV Programming section and there is a poll over there asking HDTV viewers whether FOX's NFC champ game was better quality, or CBS's AFC champ game was better quality...or both were the same.

It's not surprising to see that over 300 voted for CBS, while what, like 30 (blind) people voted for FOX. Telling *me* that *I'm* shameful? Psh. You're up against the majority then, pal.

Here is also a big thread how many users are theorizing why FOX sucks:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=497185

And here is that thread where the poll took place:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=500077&highlight=CBS+FOX+poll

Oh, woe. What humiliation.

I posted this in Genral area and thought I should repost here.

I sold my Panny 60" RPLCD and bought the Sony. Bulb problems better SD and 2 HDMI on Sony convinced me.

Xbox on my Panny looked great. All posts here indicated the Sony did a great job with 480p and 720p xbox games. I popped in Madden last night (480p) and it looked very jaggy with flashing lights. I checked my xbox dashboard and WS and 480p are on and yes. I use the HD Pack with component video hookup.

1. Sony's display reports 4:3, 480p. Shouldn't it say 16:9?

2. I have to use FULL mode to have it fill screen. Shouldn't Normal fill screen? Am I distorting picture by using FULL?

3. Same game and connections looked awesome on Panny, why not on Sony? What am I doing wrong? When I connect to XBOX Live I have all latest downloads and updates.

I will try Amped or MLB Baseball (720p) tonight to see if it looks better. Any help on what I am misisng will be greatly appericated.

Originally posted by TomCat
As someone who has unimpeachable first-hand sources within FOX and has seen FOX HD with my own eyes to boot, I say horse puckey!

With all due respect, I think the fact that you are close to some "unimpeachable first hand sources within FOX" may be clouding your analysis of this.

I think there is about as close to a consensus as there can get in the HDTV world that Fox's high definition is simply not yet up to snuff. Yes it's true that I have not personally surveyed every market, but I have seen Fox HD in several markets and people who think this way are not making it up. It's nearly a 10 to 1 view.

Maybe your opinion is different, which is fine. This is all subjective and reasonable people can disagree about subjective matters. But to call someone "shameful" because they express a widely held belief is a little over the top IMHO.

Originally posted by eaglengraver
2. I have to use FULL mode to have it fill screen. Shouldn't Normal fill screen? Am I distorting picture by using FULL?

Full should be ok. In fact, whenever I play my 16:9 DVDs, the wide-mode is on Full. You can tell yourself whether the picture is being distorted or not...if you can't then you obviously aren't losing out of any quality then.

Also, eagle, see if you can try the Xbox game on 480i widescreen. Sony has a pretty good built-in deinterlacer and it may be doing better than Xbox's deinterlacer. See if 480i makes the picture any better. Most DVD players show better pictures on the GWIVs when in 480i (instead of 480p).

EDIT: Just realized that in the TV/cable input, there is no Normal Wide mode. Looks like Normal only exists for 4:3 sources so if there's a "normal" option, the TV thinks that the source is 4:3 and will zoom accordingly to whatever your 4:3 Wide default option is. If you'd like to fit the whole screen, set the zoom mode to "zoom" and that won't distort the image, yet fill the screen.

Originally posted by xwilliam
..all HDTVs have their issues and the pace at which they are replaced by newer models is dizzying. ...I narrowed the chioces down to the Sony KDF42WE655 and the Samsung HLP4674W. ...Can anyone summarize the pros and cons of this TV? ...!

We recently made a similar (but in 50") decison. I spent a long time comparing the Sammy and the Sony side by side.

Short answer:

If your parents can see and object to the rainbow artifact on the Samsung get the Sony. If they object to the Screen Door effect on the Sony but can't see the rainbows on the Samsung, get the Samsung.

Use white titles on a black background to find the rainbows. Get close to the Sony to see the Screen Door then back up to a normal view distance and see if it is still there.

Initialy I liked the Samsung, but after looking at it for a long time the rainbows bothered me. I can't see the SDE from our view distance. We got the Sony.


Minor differences:
Sony has better built in sound. Samsung gives user a bit more color adjust. You can get that level of color adjustment and more from the Sony, but only if you navigate the very trickey service menu.
The Samsung is a 46 and the Sony a 42. Have they considered a 50"? The 46" Samsung moved us from looking at 42" sets up to 50...
Price (depending on Sales either might cost less)

Originally posted by xwilliam
..all HDTVs have their issues and the pace at which they are replaced by newer models is dizzying. ...I narrowed the chioces down to the Sony KDF42WE655 and the Samsung HLP4674W. ...Can anyone summarize the pros and cons of this TV? ...!
We also compared the Sony KDF-42WE655 to the Sammy 46" DLP as well. My wife and I spent quite some time at our local retailer where fortunately, the sets were side by side and fed via the same signal.

The clincher to us was viewing angle. Our set is mounted high in a built-in corner shelf so we are actually slightly *below* perfect line of sight line. The Sony (to us) maintainted a consistent picture over a wider angle (side-side and up-down), but in particular, for us the Sont had a better pic when viewing from a low angle. (You should have seen us sitting with our heads angled over near the floor to get the low angle in the store.)

We are extremely satisfied Sony KDF-42WE655 owners.

Jeff

Squawks I would think that something like the xbox would be better at progressive mode because the xbox doesn't really deinterlace the signal at all, it generates all 480p lines.

Originally posted by watjac92
Squawks I would think that something like the xbox would be better at progressive mode because the xbox doesn't really deinterlace the signal at all, it generates all 480p lines.

Watjac, that's true, I apologize.

If the game is 480p, and I'm assuming all Xbox games are? But if a game is 480i only, then tuning between progressive/interlaced modes to see which is better is a good idea on the GWIV. I know for example that many PS2 games are 480i, while there are others that are 480p-capable.

OK, but still cannot figure out why Sony thinks it is 4:3 when it is 16:9. Whenh I run it on the 720p projector at work it reads as 16:9. I want it to fill my screen but do not want to STRETCH to fit. How can I get Sony to see it as a 16:9 signal?

you know I'm not sure exactly how it works when it recieves a 16:9 signal either I thought normal should have filled the whole screen too.

OK, it's settled. I'm buying the Sony. The viewing angles issue is a biggie for them as their life doesn't revolve around the TV. It isn't in the center of the room and is not on a standard stand. I too think the Sammy had a limited viewing angle, but the salesman tried to convince me that is was very good and I wanted to believe him. With the Sony being about $950 cheaper, that seals the deal. I'm buying on Thursday and could not have done all this research and made the best decision without this forum! Thanks.

Hello, another newbie here, although I've been reading this forum since last November. I really appreciate all of the info from everyone, although I discovered this forum AFTER I had already purchased my 55WF655.

Here's a question (hopefully it's just "operator error" on my part) ...

I have an OTA feed going to a splitter. One signal goes to the ANT input of my HD receiver (Samsung TS360) and the other signal goes to 55WF655 "ANT" input. This feeds the SONY internal tuner and allows me to get everything my OTA Channel Master 4228 will pull down. My Samsung TS360 receiver provides my normal D*TV channels and my OTA locals. The output from the Samsung feeds the Video 7 (via HDMI) input to the 55WF655. When I invoke the split screen feature of my 55WF655, if my LEFT panel source is from the SONY tuner (OTA channel), I do not even get an option to see the Video 7 input in the RIGHT panel! I am able to get any other video feeds (Video 1- Video 6), but no Video 7- it skips right past it! What's up with that? Furthermore, when I have the Video 7 displayed in the LEFT panel, the ONLY channel I'm allowed to see in the RIGHT panel (my OTA feed) is a local SD broadcast of Georgia Public Television (local channel 8). Strange, very strange.

Am I doing something wrong? I would think that the SONY can handle split screen with two different input sources, so I'm sure I've hooked something up wrong. Any comments or help would be appreciated.

Betthemortgage -- I don't have an answer for you. My best guess would be that for some reason HDMI input does not support split screen for some reason, but I really have no idea and am only guessing.

But actually I have a question for you. Do you notice a difference between the ability of the TS360 and the WF655 in terms of the signal strength needed to pull in a channel OTA? Put another way, which OTA tuner is better -- the sammy's or the sony's?

Originally posted by lark
Betthemortgage -- I don't have an answer for you. My best guess would be that for some reason HDMI input does not support split screen for some reason, but I really have no idea and am only guessing.

But actually I have a question for you. Do you notice a difference between the ability of the TS360 and the WF655 in terms of the signal strength needed to pull in a channel OTA? Put another way, which OTA tuner is better -- the sammy's or the sony's?

I actually have experimented with this. As far as I can tell, both are about equal. 99% of the time I'm watching TV through my Sammy. If I'm watching a program that starts to have dropouts, I'll switch to the Sony tuner input and see if it pulls the station any better. What I usually find is it, too, experiences dropouts at the same rate/frequency as the Sammy. If I could ever get my split screen to display BOTH at the same time (my original post) I'd have a more conclusive answer for you! :D

Originally posted by BettheMortgage


Am I doing something wrong?

No, the TV can display digital signals (received via OTA or Cable digital channels or the HDMI input) in the left display only. This is stated in the owners manual.

You might be able to feed an extra analog video signal from your set top box in addition to the HDMI feed. That way you could view whatever the set top box is outputting in the right window too, albeit through an analog source.

I just ordered a Sony 42we655 from electronics-expo.com for an incredibly low price. So low that I was definitely worried what the catch was gonna be. No catch. I ordered it last Tuesday, they sent me a confirmation email the next day and I received the TV yesterday, about a week total from New Jersey to San Francisco. In perfect condition with a January 2005 build date. No jerking around, no calls trying to hardsell me on a warranty and they are an Authorized Dealer on Sony's website.

The only thing you really have to worry about is damage during shipping. If the box is pretty roughed up when it gets to your house, refuse it. If it arrives in fine condition but turns out to be a lemon, then you have to deal with Sony. Those are your two risks. Just make sure you are definitely getting the TV you want and not one of these guys who like to return theirs for a different model every two weeks.

I had all the reservations that everyone has in regards to buying something this big and expensive online. But their price was so low I decided it was worth the risk and I'm completely ecstatic I did. I highly recommend these guys if they have a good price on the set you want.

L



Originally posted by NoPlasmaYet
Jm,

Yes, your advice is good and I agree with it. I'm not buying it online due to the reasons you stated.

I posted the shipping policy because it's from Expo Electronics. They are a B&M store. I received different answers (from them regarding pricing & policy) on the phone & in the store. The bottom line is "All Big Screen TV sales are final" at the their store & on the internet. So it pays to be careful & ask questions.

Originally posted by levars
I just ordered a Sony 42we655 from electronics-expo.com for an incredibly low price. So low that I was definitely worried what the catch was gonna be.

The prices listed on that web site aren't all that great. Did you get a better deal than was listed on the site?

Actually, it looks like it's sold out right now, but yeah, $600 less than it's listed for right now. It was about $200 to ship it but no tax either so that was a wash. Overall, it would have cost me about $500 more to buy from Circuit City, and their price right now is as low as I've seen in the last 60 days.

That's the only model I was looking at so I have no idea how their prices compare for other models. But if they do have a good price for what you want, I can vouch for their reliability.

Originally posted by levars
Actually, it looks like it's sold out right now, but yeah, $600 less than it's listed for right now. It was about $200 to ship it but no tax either so that was a wash. Overall, it would have cost me about $500 more to buy from Circuit City, and their price right now is as low as I've seen in the last 60 days.

That's the only model I was looking at so I have no idea how their prices compare for other models. But if they do have a good price for what you want, I can vouch for their reliability.

Levars,

I wish you the best of luck with your set, it is a fine TV.
I stand by what I wrote about them, I would not deal with them, but that is my decision. Also, I have been tracking prices and for the past two weeks (at least). That TV has been listed as "Sold Out" on their web page (for all of that time), so did they give you that price on the phone?

Nope, I bought it directly from their website on Monday night, 1/17. At the price they were selling them, I'm not suprised they sold out. I do remember they were sold out of the 50-inch Sony when I bought mine as I had just bought one for my Dad from Sears so I was curious. Now it looks like they're pretty much sold out on all of their Sony LCD's.

And I don't disagree neccessarily with your stance, trust me, I was plenty nervous this past week wondering if this thing would actually show up in one piece. I wouldn't have done it either if the price wasnt so good. But if one is not neccessarily averse to buying a TV online and is just looking for a safe place to buy, I would keep a close eye on their site. It's the advice I was looking for after a month of reading this forum so I hope it helps someone else out there reading about the experience of someone who took the plunge:)

L

But their price was so low I decided it was worth the risk and I'm completely ecstatic I did. I highly recommend these guys if they have a good price on the set you want.

These guys have big B&M locations in NJ...very nice setups, but their prices looked high all over. The 42" you bought is listed as SOLD OUT and the listed price was nothing great at all.

How much lower than what is listed did you get it? I saw it about 25% cheaper at CC before Thanksgiving, nothing close price-wise since.

It was 25% less than what it's listed at now.

If you'd like another opinion on Electronics Expo - I can say my experience with them was quite positive. I just received my KDF- 55WF655 (January 2005 build date) this past Thursday - having ordered it on the 15th of January. The delivery was delayed a couple of days due to a snow storm and my needing arrange to be home to accept delivery - otherwise it was about one week in transit. While I initially shared levars' and others in this forum's hesitation with purchasing such a big ticket item online - I decided to take the risk because even including shipping from New Jersey to Minnesota I saved over $600 from the best price that I was able to negotiate from both my local CC and Ultimate Electronics (including tax). I was also swayed by the fact that they are an Authorized Sony dealer. I did some home work by checking with the Better Business Bureau and various online shopping 'bots feedback - all of which were positive.

While the prices they show on the website when they are sold out are basically list - when they I had some in stock it was the best price I'd seen advertised just about anywhere - and for sure the cheapest of any Authorized Sony Dealer, and that was right around New Years. Unfortunately it was before I had decided for sure on the Sony. I also was considering the 52" JVC, the 50" Panasonic LCDs, the Samsung, Mits, Panny and RCA DLPs, the Hitachi LCD's - in other words - I looked at pretty much everything, some two or three times. I also read a lot of posts on this forum. Once I made up my mind on the 55WF, Electronics Expo was sold out (that was about January 3rd or 4th). I waited and waited and eventually they had it in stock again - so I decided that I'd waited long enough and pulled the trigger.

One thing to note about my experience - it wasn't totally smooth - but Marian from Electronics Expo was very gracious and prompt about fixing an error in the shipping costs and somehow charging me twice. I admit that these may have been my fault for being in a hurry the morning I ordered it. I failed to make sure the right zip code was entered on the main page where the shipping and tax were calculated - although I had it correct in the bill to / ship to area. After noticing that the shipping and tax were wrong, I checked to see what the right price should be and somehow I think I got me another TV ordered that way. It could have been their website too, I don't know. But after a couple of emails, they took care of it. So I couldn't be more pleased with my buying experience and the TV is pretty awesome too. Okay, the TV rocks. I'm still working on getting my antenna mounted and aimed so the SD isn't quite there yet, but the HD is great (like I expected), DVD's are great (better than I expected), and Halo2 is like a whole new game. I haven't hooked up the PS2 yet. Did I mention that I really like this TV? I must admit that it is huge compared to the 15 year old Sony Trinitron it replaced. But it is great. I was worried a bit that the 55" was too big. So far, though - I'm glad I got it over the 50".

I guess when I weighed the pros and cons of it all here's what I came up with:
Pros: with the money I saved I can buy 2 replacement bulbs, a ridiculously priced stand, an extended warranty - or even some new carpet for my viewing room.
Cons: I gave up was the ability to be able to return it if I don't like it. There is no person for me to go yell at if I'm not happy. I won't be able to exchange it for a different technology if I decide after a few weeks that I can't stand the black levels or SDE or whatever else LCD's are notorious for. The few online stores that do allow returns, insist that the box be unopened and are not going to eat the shipping costs - so you are out those no matter what, and many also charge a 10% restocking fee.

I don't generally like extended warranties, and I was unable to negotiate a decent price without that included in the deal from the locals. By buying online I was able to stretch my budget to the 55" after thinking I'd end up with a 46" or 50".

And as far as the no return policy on TVs - I saw that at just about every online dealer I looked at. I guess if you know what you want - it isn't a problem. If you think you need the 30 day no questions asked return privilege - then by all means, you should expect to pay for it.

The biggest risk I saw was that if the TV was dead out of the box I'd have to wait for SONY to fix it and I'm sure I wouldn't be very happy, but I also figured that the chances of that happening weren't all that likely.

Todd

Originally posted by barnabas
Here is probably the only major 'advertised' difference (besides the XS enhanced tweakability and styling) between the WE/WF and the XS:

"LCD panel driver LSI minimizes motion blur caused by the response time lag of LCD panels"
Was this ever verified or debunked?

It's not "advertised" on the Sony site. No mention of it on the WF or XS.

"LCD panel driver LSI minimizes motion blur caused by the response time lag of LCD panels"

There seems to be a lot of questionable marketing-based engineering hype coming from Sony. This one bothers me because it's the LCDs themselves that have the lag issue, and not the drivers. Implying that improving the driver will minimize lag in the system it drives is like saying I will get to work quicker in a faster car, even if there's bumper-to-bumper traffic, both statements of which are ludicrous. Also, I can't imagine the difference could be significant between the lag of W's vs. XS's.

I am not familiar with the WE/F, but intimately so with the XS. It has no noticeable lag, at least that I can see. Gamers seem to like it, which is a pretty strong endorsement that lag is minimal. Whether it is significantly better in that regard, I just don't know, but no one seems to complain about the W's.

I've read the pricing policy and I don't think what I'm saying here violates it, but if it does, my apologies.

I saw the 60xs955 for $400 less than it had previously been at Best Buy yesterday. Not sure if this is just my best buy or national, but I assume it's national. It's the cheapest I've seen it at a B&M, and the price they had it down to is starting to closely rival the authorized on-line etailers. (Sales tax, of course, is another matter, if you live in a state that doesn't go after you for not reporting out-of-state internet or mail order on your income tax.)

Still, they had them in stock at mine, and they don't charge a whole lot for delivery. I bought mine from onecall, but probably would have gone this route if the price drop had occurred earlier.

You're allowed to mention prices in the context of talking about price trends, cuts, etc.

Just don't mention the name of the retailer EVERY TIME the thread progresses. You're not supposed to say "Hey, so-and-so has the XS for $2,599 -- get it now" or something to that effect.

But you CAN mention price here, particularly in comparision to other dealers.

KDF-60XS955 VIDEO-OUT

I seriously want a video out on my KDF-60XS955.

I am awaiting Time Warner to provide a CableCard and reject their STB.

A component out could feed a MSI NX6600GT-VTD128-E video card’s "component video-in" for all that a HTPC can do now or in the future with component video.

Could one set of the component video input jacks be connected to the component signals that other threads have reported to be in all signal paths in this TV and provide a component video-out?

The addition of buffering IC devices and piggy back connectors might be necessary but still worth the expense.

Ideas??

Ed

OK, my 55WF was delivered yesterday. Well as things often go the one item I was not concerned about (fan noise) is a concern. The noise mine makes sounds a lot like a small single engine plane (that has just gone by). It can be heard across the room. Does anyone else have a set with a noisy fan.....

Originally posted by NoPlasmaYet
Well as things often go the one item I was not concerned about (fan noise) is a concern.

I guess it's just expectations... I got an 60XS and was concerned about two things, one of which was fan noise. I only hear it during the quiet or silent passages of movies... which is reasonable to my ears and like I said, expected. I notice the noise sometimes but most of the time I don't. I'm hoping it will be less once my solid stand arrives.

Give it a week. If the fan is still bugs you, either consider an exchange or replace with a different TV.

Does anyone know if the video input codes of discrete codes - if so - how do you get them so a learning remote can pick them up??? What im' thinking is to access inputs even if they are in skip mode by using the discrete code to get to it [anyone tried this?].

On a side note, i picked up a "Oneforall" URC8910 remote from bestbuy for 35.00, its a phenominal remote for the money. i'm quite experienced w/ home theater master remotes for 150-200 and i recommend this to anyone who needs a very flexible low budget remote.

Aceman

Originally posted by NoPlasmaYet
a lot like a small single engine plane (that has just gone by). It can be heard across the room.

We can hear the fan on our 50WE but it isn't loud at all. It makes far less noise then the PC on my desk at work. Usually the only time I hear the fan is when I turn the set off late at night. Even then our Motorola DVR makes about as much noise.


Two things to check

Is High Altitude turned on? This user menu setting runs the fan at a higher speed to compensate for thin air.

Is you set at least 4 inches from the rear wall?


Or maybe your set has a problem. A loose fan, bad sensor, blocked air intake, or a bad speed controller...


I'm thinking about putting some sound absorbing material on the wall behind my set. This should cut way down on the noise from both my GWIV and the Motorola box.

NOt for nothing, I could of bought a CRT RPTV if 4" fromt he wall was an issue! Sony needs to get this corrected. I own a 60XS and think its awesome except for the one issue - noise. seems like the easiest thing to fix given all the engineering they have!

Originally posted by Andrew535
We can hear the fan on our 50WE but it isn't loud at all. It makes far less noise then the PC on my desk at work. Usually the only time I hear the fan is when I turn the set off late at night. Even then our Motorola DVR makes about as much noise.


Two things to check

Is High Altitude turned on? This user menu setting runs the fan at a higher speed to compensate for thin air.

Is you set at least 4 inches from the rear wall?


Or maybe your set has a problem. A loose fan, bad sensor, blocked air intake, or a bad speed controller...


I'm thinking about putting some sound absorbing material on the wall behind my set. This should cut way down on the noise from both my GWIV and the Motorola box.

Andrew,

Yes I have the fan (at least) four inches from the wall. I'll check on the altitude setting (didn't know there was one). The sound I'm hearing isn't from air moving. The fan has a hum, perhaps it's out of balance? I can feel the vibration from the fan.

DaverJ

"Give it a week. If the fan is still bugs you, either consider an exchange or replace with a different TV".

Yes, I have considered that. I figured I'll spend more time with the set. I like the picture. If there are more problems I'll ask for a replacement, if not I'll have Sony take a look at it.

Originally posted by NoPlasmaYet


The fan has a hum, perhaps it's out of balance? I can feel the vibration from the fan.



Could be a broken or loose fan.

Our fan does make more of a motor noise than an air noise. It isn't very loud. The first time I noticed it, I went around the house trying to figure out which bathroom fan was still on. I wasn't sure it was the TV untill I stuck my head behind the set.


Just for fun I'm going to borrow a sound level meter from work and see if I can get some numbers. My Living room is noisey though. I may not get anything usefull.

Broken or not, fan noise shouldn't be objectionable. I'd try and get a service call or a replacement set. If noise is still a problem, return the set and buy something else.

Fan noise:

Others have had the same issue - I am getting to that point now, too. I remember from some AVS posting (I don't think it was this thread) about someone who solved the fan noise by locating the fan area on the back of the set, and slightly 'backing out' the screws in the case in that area. It solved it for him. Haven't tried it myself yet. Also in this thread some have used a sound level meter, and there was some discussion about measurements.

I have an old Sony 32" CRT in my bedroom and a new KDF60XS955 n my livingroom.

Since I have a remote exender to allow me to control and watch my AV gear in my bedroom, I have a problem turning on and off the bedroom TV without affecting the living room Sony.

Is there any way to change the power on/off code for one of the sets so I can control them separately?

Originally posted by Aceman
Does anyone know if the video input codes of discrete codes - if so - how do you get them so a learning remote can pick them up??? What im' thinking is to access inputs even if they are in skip mode by using the discrete code to get to it [anyone tried this?].

On a side note, i picked up a "Oneforall" URC8910 remote from bestbuy for 35.00, its a phenominal remote for the money. i'm quite experienced w/ home theater master remotes for 150-200 and i recommend this to anyone who needs a very flexible low budget remote.

Aceman

Aceman, you can use your OFA remote to program a learning remote. Check out this site:

http://www.hifi-remote.com/ofa/

Look in the discrete codes section and you will find the advanced codes for your set. You use the OFA to send the correct code to your learning remote. The only issue I had was I could not find a code for input 7, only 1-6. I use a macro, so I just have it send input 6 then input advance to get to input 7.

This issue was mentioned early in this thread, but after a searching through the thread I could not find any updates. I am wondering if anyone has dealt with Sony on this issue where the set changes itself back to normal mode from wide, or if you are already on normal, the on screen display will spontaneously appear...

Any updates? It's the only issue I have with my WF55, just an annoyance, but it would be nice to know if Sony has given out any info on it...

Thanks all.

Aceman,

I have a URC 200. I've been toying with this idea and I think it will work...

Use the Sony's "Ant" button to switch inputs to the antenna input. Now when you press the TV/Video button, it will always start at the first "visible" input. For me this is Input 5 (my Comcast DVR). Once you know where your starting point is, you can program the macro to just press "TV/Video" however many times necessary to get to the input you need.

Make sense?

Tim T

marcelval,

Thanks for the VERY informative link. How do i get the code (pre defined) to a key??????? is that the key sequences or something???

aceman

Here is how I went about this using a OneForAll and a Home Theater Master MX500 which is the remote I actually use. I set up a device on the MX500 to serve as a home for the discrete codes (this just gave me a place to learn the codes to so I can use them in macros).

First you have to set the TV device on the OFA to device code 0000. The OFA controls should work on the TV (Ie turn it on/off, change channels etc.).

Be careful sending advanced codes! If you send the wrong code you could end up sending an unknown command to the TV (ie unknown result) these codes are often used to control settings that are not available on a regular remote or through standard menus, so you might not be able to set it back to the correct setting. The risk is slight, but as always use at your own risk.

To send an advanced code from the OFA press "setup" followed by the 3 digit number. This will send out the signal which you can learn to another remote. The codes I found to work were from TV device 0000 here are the pertinent ones:

113: discrete on
109: discrete off
034: video 1
030: video 2
032: video 3
029: video 4
162: video 5
158: video 6

I could not find a code for video 7 although I would bet one exists.

Marcelval,

You ROCK!!! :D

I've been playing around w/ the remote since I got home. Turns out discrete codes for video inputs do work even with the "SKIP" assigned to them. This allows for id**t proof macros to watch a DVD and to watch Cable, there's no more confusion for the MRS as to what input she has to be on!

thx again. that website's awesome. FYI - i've programmed several MX500's and just recently did a MX850 - its awesome! I just think the OFA9910 is a killer buy w/ RF for less than $50 so that's what i'm going with. Take a look at the 850's software (freeware on the web) if you get a chance, its killer.

thx again!

Aceman

Purchased a Sony 50WE655 yesterday (and was delivered same day). I have to wait until Friday until TW can get here with the HD box (they don't have the CableCard in stock at the moment).

I ran the auto-program, and sure enough, the TV found 8 or 10 HD channels on the coax. I was quite amazed at the picture quality. (My wife was floored.) I've attached a picture during a program on DiscoveryHD.

I haven't tweaked a setting (yet), as I want to wait until Time Warner visits.

No dead pixels, sound and black levels a pleasant surprise, and no major complaints. I was a little disappointed when I played a couple of DVDs. I have a Sony DVD player with progressive scan (component hook up). The picture was good, but wasn't a "knock out."

A couple of questions (I posted these elsewhere, before I saw this thread)...

What should I look for in a DVD player that will complement the TV?

Secondly, should I calibrate the system with one of the DVDs that I've read about?

Thanks,
Jeff

Jeff -- do you have the option to toggle the progressive scan off on your dvd player? If so, give it a try and see how it looks before you run out and spend a ton on a new dvd player.

If you decide to buy a new DVD player, I have been very impressed with the new Sony 975V upscaling player. The display results from the DVD player set at 1080i is stunning.

I wonder if it is worth buying an upconverting DVD player these days when HD-DVD players are due out by the end of the year...

Of course, we will probably have to deal with a format war between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, so that will make many of us wait until the "winner" is decided.

I wonder if it is safe to assume that all HD-DVD players will also upconvert plain-old DVD's...

Originally posted by Mtnmike
If you decide to buy a new DVD player, I have been very impressed with the new Sony 975V upscaling player. The display results from the DVD player set at 1080i is stunning.

MtnMike,

Maybe a dumb question, but I am running the 975 into my 55WF on Auto, meaning it is supposed to be sending the best picture that the set can handle. What is the difference between Auto and setting the 975 to 1080i? Thanks.

Originally posted by PackFan
I wonder if it is safe to assume that all HD-DVD players will also upconvert plain-old DVD's... Great question.

Not sure but the best answer is to try both and pick which looks best for you. On my 55WF the best PQ has resulted (for me) with feeding 1080i over HDMI. I am more concerned with what my eye sees than what setting someone may feel is best or works for them.

This is alway's the best way...What looks the best to your eye.....Like speakers what sounds the best to your ear in your environment.

Originally posted by Mtnmike
Not sure but the best answer is to try both and pick which looks best for you. On my 55WF the best PQ has resulted (for me) with feeding 1080i over HDMI. I am more concerned with what my eye sees than what setting someone may feel is best or works for them.

Cool. I am feeding the 55Wf via HDMI as well, and was just wondering why some said 480p, 1080i, and the player supposedly automatically picks the best...

Hey everyone,
After months of research, debate and shopping. I finally bought 55wf655. Yippee for me. Much bigger in my family room than it looked in the store.

Well, I hooked it up directly to cable (no stb- coax to the TV) and let it scan, and it picked up a lot of channels- including the locals in HD.

My problem is that the HD channels do not look any different from the SD feed! Argh. Anyone have any ideas where to start w/ this? I'm sure I f'd up something fundamental and stupid.

BTW, I have the cable feed split, one into my existing SD STB then onto the TV via coax (HD STB/DVR being delivered saturday) and the other feed right into the back of the TV via coax.

Thoughts?

Originally posted by 95se
My problem is that the HD channels do not look any different from the SD feed!

Congrats on your purchase!

Just a thought, but what shows were you watching? Notice that not everything is in High Definition yet. Most prime time programing and many pro sports are, but college sports, reality shows and news shows are all pretty much still SD. Sometimes it's hard to guess what show will be in HD: Leno is HD, but Letterman is SD. Saturday Night Live is SD, The Young and the Restless is HD. Also the shows have to be broadcast in HD in your area, but if they are showing up as digital than they will probably show the HD feed.

Take a look at www.titantv.com and check to make sure what show you are watching is indeed an HD show.

Thanks DaverJ,
I haven't spent much time with it, I just watched a little primetime last night and some news this morning, none of which looked HD.

I did titantv and it doesn't look like there's much HD broadcast available to me! Yikes. For all the local affiliates, the only thing listed for today is Leno? Looks like all day on Discovery TV though. This is dissappointing, I had assumed at least all primetime would be available in HD from the locals....

I'm starting to wonder about the logic of a $3000 TV coupled with a huge monthly cable bill for what's seamingly available. Hmmm.....

Might also be the state of the union taking out most primetime tonight...

Originally posted by 95se
I'm starting to wonder about the logic of a $3000 TV coupled with a huge monthly cable bill for what's seamingly available. Hmmm.....

Sorry to hear you are initially disappointed, but don't worry... HD is definitely coming stronger in the future. I edit TV shows for a living, and while we are still editing in SD, we know at some point we will be switching to HD. It's not an "if", it's a "when".

I'm excited to be editing my first HD show next month- an upcoming episode of Modern Marvels for the History Channel. Between shooting, editing picture and sound, and final on-line mastering, it's a whole different animal. But these are interesting times for this TV industry.

It's just going to take a while before everything becomes HD- hang in there! :)

Originally posted by 95se

My problem is that the HD channels do not look any different from the SD feed! Argh. Anyone have any ideas where to start w/ this? I'm sure I f'd up something fundamental and stupid.


Can you give us an example of what the channel number is for one of the HD channels that you are looking at? If it is true HD then the number should be something like “5.1” and not “5”. “5” would be the standard analog broadcast, “5.1” would typically be the HD broadcast, and “5.2”-“5.4” would typically be alternate digital broadcasts that may or may not be in an HD resolution. Also what was the program that you were watching at the time? If it was not an HD program on an HD channel then it shouldn’t look any different than the standard analog broadcast. I just got the same TV this past weekend and I have it setup with the Digital Cable Tuner and an Over the Air antenna to the TV’s digital tuner. Both sources give me an outstanding picture when the broadcast is true HD. It actually looks better than the same HD program on my HD cable box. However, nothing looks better than when I use my ATI HDTV Wonder to output HD programs to my new TV at a resolution of 1760x1000.

By a quick check, I can't confirm that anything I've watched (in the brief time I've watched) was actually HD. I'll check more tonight, and definitely make sure I'm actually watching HD. I've got Charter, which doesn't carry a whole lot of HD to begin with. They have designated channels for HD, so my local NBC is on 7 and NBC-HD is 787 (or somewhere up there). I was flicking back and forth furiously this morning expecting a difference not realizing that the morning news programs weren't in HD.

I knew there was a lack of HD out there, but figured most of the locals at least were HD 1/2 the time. I'll check back...

95se, just purchased the same set and have a similar reaction. Not much programming in HD, but what there is is very impressive. It also makes a difference if the original was recorded on film or video, film being softer, I believe. Discovery HD and INHD (I have Comcast) are superb, as are the networks when doing sports. Out here in W. Mass our ABC affiliate (WGGB) still isn't doing HD, so all of ABC sucks. Can't wait for the season to start to see the Bosox in HD! Patience, Grasshopper.

Watching the SOTU tonight in digital, its not even close between 780p and 1080i. It was a good time to get a direct comparison of the same feed. Might have been somewhat due to the station, but 1080i was better by far. Night and day difference. I haven't scanned the thread yet, but I assume the GWIV displays 1080i much better.

It's funny that (due to Charter) the first HD I got a chance to watch at home was the SATU. My wife said "Oh, he looks older." I guess makeup doesn't do the job as well for HD. You're right though, it was handy to compare the difference. Very noticable and much appreciated.

Also, I did get to throw in a DVD tonight. Very nice. Silly Charter needs to get me a STB just to get Discovery HD which seems to be the only channel I can get that consistantly broadcasts HD. Jerks.

Since I want the DVR, I'm getting the HD DVR, and considering getting the cable card as well for a more direct feed(with cable split from the wall between the two). Anyone think it's worth it to take the STB out of the equation when not needed?

Originally posted by marcelval

I could not find a code for video 7 although I would bet one exists.
I'll take you up on that bet :D There's no Video 4 code for my 4 year old Wega. It's some sort of chronic problem for Sony I guess.

Does anyone know why when I'm watching off my antenna feed and press the ant/guide button on the remote, the TV goes to C9? Should it go back to the Sat feed?

BTW... ABC came in much better than FOX for the SOTU for me. Both were 720p. Anyone know why?

Rambunktious:

I experienced the same thing. NBC, CBS and ABC were pretty comparable. Fox's quality was far lower.

Rambunktious-the "C" numbers are your regular tuner numbers. I'm guessing you have a cable/SAT set-top box? Sounds like you accidently hit the 9 button or channelled up to 9. Should be on 3 for the cable/SAT box. When C9 comes up, channel back down to 3 or just enter it in. Hope that works.

Originally posted by marcelval
Here is how I went about this using a OneForAll and a Home Theater Master MX500 which is the remote I actually use. I set up a device on the MX500 to serve as a home for the discrete codes (this just gave me a place to learn the codes to so I can use them in macros).

First you have to set the TV device on the OFA to device code 0000. The OFA controls should work on the TV (Ie turn it on/off, change channels etc.).

Be careful sending advanced codes! If you send the wrong code you could end up sending an unknown command to the TV (ie unknown result) these codes are often used to control settings that are not available on a regular remote or through standard menus, so you might not be able to set it back to the correct setting. The risk is slight, but as always use at your own risk.

To send an advanced code from the OFA press "setup" followed by the 3 digit number. This will send out the signal which you can learn to another remote. The codes I found to work were from TV device 0000 here are the pertinent ones:

113: discrete on
109: discrete off
034: video 1
030: video 2
032: video 3
029: video 4
162: video 5
158: video 6

I could not find a code for video 7 although I would bet one exists.

There absolutely is one for Video 7. I have the 60xs955 and a Harmony 676 remote. The Harmony can do a discrete video 7 but for 8 it does a macro of discrete 7 plus a video up.

Originally posted by Squawks
Probably just the source is getting better. BTW, Fox's HD is very bad quality (Fox has internal problems)...especially from the long distance cameras. Hopefully you watched the AFC championships on CBS...now that was a lot better in quality. A shame the Superbowl will be on Fox.

I feel just the opposite. I think Fox has it all over the others. They pretty much have all their cameras in HD whereas ABC and CBS only have field cameras. The blimps seem to all be SD when they're used.

Originally posted by richjam
I finally got an answer from Sony regarding the use of a VCR of DVR with a CableCard connection - YOU CAN'T!! While I don't want to bad mouth Sony because I love my WF55, but what the heck were there engineers thinking???

What they were thinking...
Sony is coming out, very soon, with a HD-DVR that has a CableCard slot. Given the cost of a CC not too bad, it's just the install fee that the Cable Co's charge that's BS.

I flipped back and forth on the SOTU last night, and I was certain the fox broadcast was in SD, was it not? The difference between Fox and the others was that striking.

Originally posted by joe221
I feel just the opposite. I think Fox has it all over the others. They pretty much have all their cameras in HD whereas ABC and CBS only have field cameras. The blimps seem to all be SD when they're used.

Dude, with all due respect you need to take a closer look. Check out the HDTV Programming link at this forum for almost any broadcast and you'll see near unanimous opinions that Fox needs to improve compared to CBS, NBC and ABC. Supposedly they're working on it.

The Super Bowl thread is a good place to compare your experience with others. There is even a "FOX Eng" posting thats very helpful in explaining the details of the situation.

If you've neglected to refill that prescription, please disregard this post. I'll give fair warning that it is only my humble opinion.

There are so many links in the chain between program acquisition and one's eyes that the final PQ can be degraded at any number of instances along the way. A problem visible at the end of the chain can only indicate that there is a problem somewhere in the chain. Where that problem is can't be defined without further investigation. That said, saying that PQ looks bad on your set comparative to what else you see, or citing a particularly narrow-minded little group of folks who agree means absolutely nothing regarding the source. Absolutely nothing.

And the source is fine. FOX is providing PQ equal or better to the other networks through a state-of-art satellite delivery system at a 68 Mb/s payload rate to the latest FOX-owned digital receivers at the affiliate level, and in many cases using the latest MPEG splicer technology at the local stations. That much is NOT opinion. What happens to the PQ after the fact at the local station, on DBS, on cable, or in your STB or display can't ever negate that ACTUAL FACT.

Comparing the PQ of what comes through your TV and ascribing blame to particular networks regarding that is probably both the most small-minded exercise and the least-scientific empirical test I could ever imagine, due only partially to the sheer number of unknown variables left twisting in the wind. Making sweeping statements regarding that is at best misleading and at worst a disservice to the folks who come here for real answers.

If someone posts with hard evidence or even not-so-hard evidence that a network, a local station, a cable provider, a DBS vendor, or a HDTV set manufacturer is screwing the pooch regarding PQ, I will be the first one to welcome that post. Until that actually happens, I'd prefer that everyone just stop whining about hearsay or about profoundly weak circumstantial evidence regarding what they really don't know or understand. Please.

That doesn't belong in this forum, and it certainly doesn't belong in this particular thread, which has already been hijacked repeatedly with issues about DVD players, program content, and furniture, which only in certain very limited instances have anything to do with the GWIV.

(rant mode off)

Glad I'm on drugs after reading through that reply.

In my area, CBS is easily the best HD PQ, Fox is the worst.

On another subject, has anyone that tried UMR's tweaks found their PQ to be tainted yellow/gold?

I have and I dialed the RCUT and GCUT down to bring the PQ back to neutral to my eye. I also reduced Red tint and hue in the SM to get red push down according to Avia color bars. Things look very good now. Granted, this is all "to my eye" and without equipment to check greyscale, but after 6 weeks of searching for a PQ that looks good to me, this has been an improvement.

Now, if only black levels matched my old Toshiba CRT RPTV I would be happy!

Tomcat,

As usual you are right on target. If it "looks bad" then it must be this, that or the other. Whatever the uneducated in any given field ascribe their thinking to without really thinking. In this case since FOX is the broadcaster it must be the problem. Nevermind everything in between the original source and eyeball.

Originally posted by bstevens
On another subject, has anyone that tried UMR's tweaks found their PQ to be tainted yellow/gold?

Yes. I was not at all happy with the color after I tried UMR's values. Everything seemed to have an amber cast to it to me. I know the grayscale should be set *for my set and viewing environ* using the proper equipment, but I tried them just for fun. Wasn't happy at all with them.

I much prefer leaving the cuts and drives at their factory setting, changing the UM Color setting to Warm and changing the SM Axis to 0. This is far better than out of the box and colors are evenly saturated without red push. (To my eye).

Jeff

Originally posted by TomCat
There are so many links in the chain between program acquisition and one's eyes .....

Tomcat, interesting post. Note, in my post before yours, I suggested the poster review another thread, where this subject could be discussed. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=497185

As for the remainder of your post, Your information seems at odds with my understanding from that thread, specifically information provided by user "foxeng" (e.g., post 142) about the problem(s) being worked on. I respect his comments, and yours, and those of many VERY experienced members that posted on this subject in that thread.

I have no doubt about your information, but I do believe a broad band of viewers (nationwide) that post here about their experiences that traverse different paths from FOX to our eyes. Specifically, the game comments for the NFL Playoffs in the HDTV Programs section of this forum.

Someone said it best on the above thread, about NONE OF US really knowing factually. When I hear "Who you gonna believe, me our your eyes?" its always good for a laugh.

One thing this has provided me with is great comfort in my GWIV, which I've eliminated as the root of any of the problems observed.

Originally posted by Mtnmike
Tomcat,

As usual you are right on target. If it "looks bad" then it must be this, that or the other.

Couldn't have been said any better. While Tomcat argues about excuses/reasons/blah and complains how people are making this 'assumptions'...one thing is oh-so definitely clear: the public (cable, satelite, OTA) are all unanimous that FOX performs quite poorly in football broadcasts as compared to say, CBS. There is no doubt about that, and to claim that it is not FOX but the viewer that is at fault (oh, must be the viewer's eyes, or must be the viewer's provider, or viewer's STB, or viewer's TV, blah blah blah).

No. That's not the case. FOX's football broadcasts are inferior, period. The funny thing is that this debate has gone into far, far, far greater detail in the HDTV Programming forum. Again, check the links provided by me (far above) and IamtheWolf.

Telling people that FOX is not at fault is nothing new. It's very clear already that FOX has great HD programming such as 24, American Idol, etc. that appear to be good quality. But the fact that its football has been consistently subpar (very much subpar) to CBS and ABC is pretty apparent to the many, many viewers (of diverse providers, TV sets, and equipment).

People are making wild predictions/assumptions why FOX is so bad, and I don't blame them, because FOX really is that bad (note: I'm talking about FOOTBALL). It sounds rather immature to scowl these folks for 'bashing' FOX when I can clearly see their reasoning for doing so. FOX just sucks (football-wise). Period.

sorry if this has been asked before.......

i have the sony KDF42WE655, is there a way for me to use the tv's speakers as the center speaker for my home theater system. i know that the rca dlp had this option, but i ended up not liking the tv and returned it for the sony. thanks in advance.

dt

To get back on the topic of the thread (GWIV)... I just got my 55WF delivered today (bought it at lunchtime and was delivered at 4).
1) Circuit City was AWESOME! Very helpful salesman, great job on price (got the DAV-FR1 Dream System also). Note: I had been to BB 3 times this week & waited around the TV area from 20-30 minutes for assistance - they only had 2 people working & there were 4-10 customers needing help. I don't fault the employees - I fault mgmt for not staffing appropriately. The salesman I worked with is actually the one that delivered the TV 4 hours later. VERY helpful - he helped me set it up (basics) and went over basics on the remote.
2) This TV is AWESOME. Colors: bright and vivid. Blacks are black :)
3) The Dream System is ... a dream! The sound is unbelievable. And, it's gorgeous :)
4) I was experiencing "paralysis by over-analysis" & I just decided this is THE set that "I" want... So I went for it. Loving it.
Will attach a pic of my setup this weekend :)

Originally posted by wayde
To get back on the topic of the thread (GWIV)... I just got my 55WF delivered today (bought it at lunchtime and was delivered at 4).
1. Amen Bro.
2. Welcome to the club.

Funny but it seems most buyers have initial remorse (PQ not as expected, where are the tweaks, etc.), then they settle in and really get comfortable.

Its really of great comfort when you can determine your equipment is performing outstandingly (and can isolate it from impact on PQ vs the many other elements - from broadcast to your eyes, as said by Tomcat).

Glad to hear it worked out from the start. Now don't mess up a perfectly good set with too much tweaking :)

wayde

How is the fan noise for the 55WF? I have a 50WF that I am thinking of exchanging for the 55 and the only thing I've seen as a potential problem is the fan noise. By the way, I love the 50WF.

One other thing I've noticed is the SD is not bad in normal mode. I think a lot of the complaints come from trying to stretch it to fill the whole screen. It ain't made for that.

UV -
I checked this out tonight as I remembered reading comments about it... The set was on for 2.5 hours (watching a lil of SW then all of Finding Nemo)... Couldn't hear fan when watching (I like it loud) I put my head near the back of the set & heard a quiet whirring noise, that's it.
I agree - SD is much better when you watch in normal mode (also the people don't look stretched :)
I've only had for 4.5 hours... VERY impressed with the TV and Dream System thus far.

...and no buyer's remorse :)

The HD programming is fantastic, no fan noise at all (unless one's ear is two inches from the lower-back of the set), etc... It was also nice to have a great experience at CC (dealer gave me an extra $150 off advertised sale price), and free delivery an hour after I bought it.

I'm still not thrilled with picture from my DVD player (basic Sony progressive), but I'm still playing with it. I'm going to upgrade the component cables and see if that helps.

One thing I noticed with NBC HD 4:3 programming... When a scene quickly changes, or a quick movement is made, I notice black "dots" (for lack of a better term) during the quick scene change/movement. I don't notice this on any other network's 4:3 HD or even NBC's 16:9 HD programming. Anyone else notice this?

Jeff

yeah, the lack of quality on DVDs was surprising. i mean i know its not the resolution of dtv, but it caught me off guard. anything i might be able to tweak? i pretty much expected the D* and SD quality, totally fine with that, i just wish my DVDs looked better. i have a new 775 sony, with good monster component cables. i love my 55wf. jay leno is awesome in 1080i. 1080i looks so much better on my set, it is easy to see that difference too. i too had a great experience at CC. i waiting at BB for 20 min just to get one to ask if i needed help. then my perfect credit only got me $2000 credit limit so i would say "oh, no problem, i'll just put the rest of the tv on my own credit card." stopped by CC and they dropped the price of the 55" to $50 over the price of the 50". SOLD.

4) I was experiencing "paralysis by over-analysis" & I just decided this is THE set that "I" want... So I went for it.

Same here. I just got the 55wf earlier this week (Tuesday). So far SD doesn't look as bad as I expected. HDs been great, but not as WOW as expected. I thought DVDs in general have looked much closer to HD than SD. So far, in limited viewing it's been pretty variable with the source though. Some HD Channels have looked better, and some have had wide variations between particular shows on 1 channel. I thought the Matrix on DVD looked fantastic, but I wasn't overly impressed watching The Empire Strikes Back last night.

Fan Noise: It's very noticable, pretty loud, when I first turn the set on or off. When watching most TV I can't here it. When I turn the TV down to watch quietly (wife sleeping or something) I can here it. I haven't decided if it's annoying me yet or not. Someone earlier compared it to the sound of the hard drive in their DVR. Mine is definitely much much louder than that. If I turn the TV volume all the way down, I can easily hear it from 15'+ away.

just a few thoughts:

How many hard surfaces near your TV?

Hardwood floors, tile & walls? Put as many soft surfaces (acoustic absorbers) near your set - maybe install some acoustic felt directly behind your set.

I have my set on a TV stand/rack about 2 1/2 feet off a carpeted floor and a large vase with dried flower arrangement on L side of set. I can barely hear the fan.

Good luck.

True, mine is set up in the worst case scenario. It's in the corner of a room with hard wood floors, very little acoustic absorbers. I'll see what I can do.

Guys,

I'm still programming my new MX-850 remote, and have a quick question. Anyone know if hte picture modes (std, vivid, pro) have discrete codes????

thx.

Aceman

I have a 60XS955. I like the TV, except for the black levels. I prefer to watch TV in very subdued lighting, if not dark. I know this is typically a problem with LCD sets, as I am experiencing. The tweak threads seem to be popular, with most people raving about the differences after the tweaks are applied. My question is, just how much difference is there?

Sometimes people can see a massive difference because they *want* to, especially after spending a few hours tweaking. I am thrilled that there is so much participation in the tweaking of these sets, and the sharing of the information. I am just wondering how much of a difference is there? Is it a night and day difference as some might imply, or are the changes more subtle?

I remember a time when Rocket speakers were all the rage on this board. I bought into it, and ordered a set (they are a mail order only company). I was disappointed and sent them back. My point is, all I could find was really positive reviews of the speakers, so I thought they must be the greatest thing since sliced bread. I didn't think they were that great, and chalked it up to Rocket owners wanting to be happy with their purchase, so they were.

I will likely get into the service menu and make some changes. Since the process is not without some peril, and is time consuming, I guess I am approaching this with a small dose of skepticism, wondering how much of a difference I should expect to see when finished.

To make a long post short, are the tweaks going to make a really big difference on DVD / SD programming, or are they more subtle?

Well, I decided to buy a DVD player with up-conversion and HDMI (Toshiba SD-5970). The PQ difference between my Sony "plain" progressive player and this new one is quite noticeable on my 50WE655. Well worth the $169.

Jeff

Hi, all

I'm on my second week with my 55WF655. Got it at CC online with on-store pickup, for $300 less than if I had got it directly at the store... go figure...

Anyway, so far, I'm a little disappointed with the SD picture. In now way this is the TV's fault though... I'm actually disappointed at Dish Network's picture quality. I used to think their picture was great, but now, the big screen allows me to see all the flaws caused by the excessive compression they are applying. When watching a widescreen show that is broadcast in 4:3 (letterboxed), I like to use the Zoom mode so the picture fills the entire screen, but that only makes the compression artifacts more apparent.

HD is a whole different story. Even though I'm still struggling with my OTA antenna setup, the shows I've been able to watch have been exceptional. DVDs look great too.

My only worry at this point is the HDMI input. I connected a PC with a MyHD card to the HDMI input using a DVI cable and a HDMI adapter. At first, the picture was shown purely in tones of red. That turned out to be a defective adapter though. I changed cables, and now the colors are correctly displayed, but the picture overflows the screen: in 16:9 content, the right side of the image goes beyond the right border of the screen, in 4:3, the picture is not centered in the screen, but the left vertical bar is wider than the right one. Has anyone seen something like this? Could this be the cable too? I don't want to keep buying these cables, each one is over $100!!!

I think I'm still on time to get the CC extended warranty on the TV, so I might do that just in case this turns out to be a problem with the set's HDMI I can get it fixed under the warranty.

Originally posted by Squawks
.'...one thing is oh-so definitely clear: the public (cable, satelite, OTA) are all unanimous that FOX performs quite poorly in football broadcasts as compared to say, CBS. There is no doubt about that...

No. That's not the case. FOX's football broadcasts are inferior, period...

People are making wild predictions/assumptions why FOX is so bad, and I don't blame them, because FOX really is that bad (note: I'm talking about FOOTBALL). It sounds rather immature to scowl these folks for 'bashing' FOX when I can clearly see their reasoning for doing so. FOX just sucks (football-wise). Period.

It is NOT oh-so definitely clear, and the public is NOT unanimous in their opinion. The more you state that this is the case, the less it begins to seem that there is anything here other than uninformed opinion. Like real facts.

This much I agree with: FOX does not do as good a job as CBS on football. The production is just not as good, and they do indeed still use a few replay or iso cameras that aren't even 16:9. This is a moving target, as they have 300% more HD remote production trucks now as they did 6 months ago, but all of the equipment and infrastructure in the world can't make up for the production values. I would rather watch football anywhere but FOX.

But people let this color their perception of PQ. And this seems to be a lot of why people say FOX HD football broadcasts suck. They DO suck, but the PQ doesn't, at least as far as the OTA transmission from most stations is concerned. And that's an important distinction that some of us seem to have trouble making. Why, I can't imagine.

No matter how much you try to definitevely say that it is unanimous that the PQ is inferior, that does not make it so. If it were unanimous, then I would be saying it too, so the more you try to prop up your argument with obviously untrue statements, the more your credibility will be questioned, and I humbly suggest that this aspect of the pissing contest should come to a screeching halt. I know I won't be wasting any more time on it very shortly.

There is no significant technical difference between the way FOX or CBS or anyone else acquires HD football. The HD remote trucks are certainly not identical, but the standards are, and the equipment is similar. Also similar is the way they handle it at their TOC before uplinking it to affiliates.

I can't speak for CBS, but from that point to the station is very sophisticated at FOX, and likely is newer and better, if not just equivalent, to how other networks do that. The FOX datastream has the capability to carry 100 Mb/s of signal, and within that signal 4 HD and 4 SD streams. Currently they are only using 68 Mb/s of that bandwidth and are providing 1 HD and 2 SD streams to a particular time zone (the other SD stream being NewsEdge), so that there is currently plenty of bits to go around. As a matter of fact, much of what is seen within that bitstream is null packets.

Stations that use MPEG splicers, which include all O&O stations and most large-market stations to date, receive the ASI datastream on FOX-owned local receivers, and during FOX program segments any local processing is essentially bypassed, which is equivalent to connecting the received ASI datastream directly to the encoder. What that means is there is no opportunity locally to dumb-down the bit rate. FOX stations (all stations) format to SMPTE310 at this point, which parses out the elemental HD stream and combines that with EIT and PSIP and creates a 19.3 Mb/s datastream for broadcast. FOX stations then typically broadcast their HD channel with 14 Mb/s devoted to it. Attempting to reduce that is both unadvised and very costly and difficult, so it rarely is done, and can't be done without FOX network approval.

Since there is no opportunity in such a setup to degrade the FOX signal, the local station almost never can do anything to compromise that pristine bitstream. That points the finger away from FOX, and elsewhere...either the cable or DBS vendor, the STB, or the display. That's how it works, and that is exactly why if you have a problem with FOX PQ, either it is a local station without the benefit of an MPEG splicer or it is something beyond that point such as cable or DBS that is causing the problem. FOX, is completely innocent.

I hear now that the moon landing was really a simulation done in a large water tank, that an election in Iraq will ensure democracy in the middle east, and that Paul is dead, and has been since 1969. If you still think FOX is to blame for poor PQ, then just stuff more aluminum foil in your hat, move out from over that paint store, and keep on telling yourself that.

Originally posted by Drifter
I...Is it a night and day difference as some might imply, or are the changes more subtle?

...Since the process is not without some peril, and is time consuming, I guess I am approaching this with a small dose of skepticism, wondering how much of a difference I should expect to see when finished.

To make a long post short, are the tweaks going to make a really big difference on DVD / SD programming, or are they more subtle?

In general, I think the tweaks that are made in the user menus are difficult to do and the end result, if done properly, is not night and day. It is subtle, but is an obvious improvement. If it were night and day, I would think that the standard tweak done at the factory would have to be pretty inferior, to leave that much room for improvement. What we probably are working with here is a factory tweak done to make the set "pop" on the sales floor at BB or CC vs. a tweak that more accurately represents what looks best in your living room, and the basis of most after-purchase tweaking is based on that.

ISF/DVE/AVIA tweaks are more invasive, and the end result can be a little less subtle, but the advantages are usually quite over-hyped, especially by the folks who do them as well as those who have drunk the Kool-aid and bought into it and paid the admission fee. Some of these tweaks can improve things slightly, but some of them are designed more towards calibration to arbitrary standards rather than to what looks best to you on a particular type of display. I'm really not that skeptical, just somewhat agnostic about it, but there are plenty of evangelists that will tell you exactly what you want to hear, as long as you're willing to listen.

One thing that is a true paradigm shift is how you adjust blacks on a LCD vs. a CRT. On a CRT you can adjust them separately and independently all day long and we're quite used to that process. On a LCD there is more interaction, and there is somewhat of a compromise to be made in that you must adjust the total image brightness expecting it to also affect the absolute black level, meaning that you may have to sacrifice total image brightness to get the black level where it belongs. Once you get used to that process, it becomes realtively simple to get things adjusted properly, and you never really feel that you've given up brightness for proper blacks.

The GWIV's have quite a lot of brightness headroom, too. One thing I recommend is using the "power saver" mode, which reduces the light from the bulb from 132w to 100w (the standard brightness of last year's models). Not only will you still have plenty of brightness even in a brightly sunlit room, the reduced light output means less light leak inside the cabinet meaning the absolute black level will be much more acceptable. Also, it should significantly improve bulb life, LCD life, and even somewhat reduce the fan noise (less heat means fewer high cycles for the cooling fan). Turn it on when you get the set installed, and leave it on.

There is a certain "getting-used-to-it" factor regarding the shock of seeing SD on a 60" screen. SD is going away precisely because it has the exact problems that HD does not have, and is all the more shockingly bad-looking because it's on the same screen that "CSI:Miami" looked so good on 20 minutes ago, and it's now right in your face. You have to make a leap of faith that SD will be less acceptable after purchasing such a set than it is before you do so. I keep saying that it is impossible to make good chicken salad out of good chicken sh*t, and that analogy applies very well to trying to tweak SD on an HD display.

Originally posted by Drifter
Sometimes people can see a massive difference because they *want* to, especially after spending a few hours tweaking. I am thrilled that there is so much participation in the tweaking of these sets, and the sharing of the information. I am just wondering how much of a difference is there? Is it a night and day difference as some might imply, or are the changes more subtle?

I remember a time when Rocket speakers were all the rage on this board. I bought into it, and ordered a set (they are a mail order only company). I was disappointed and sent them back. My point is, all I could find was really positive reviews of the speakers, so I thought they must be the greatest thing since sliced bread. I didn't think they were that great, and chalked it up to Rocket owners wanting to be happy with their purchase, so they were.

I will likely get into the service menu and make some changes. Since the process is not without some peril, and is time consuming, I guess I am approaching this with a small dose of skepticism, wondering how much of a difference I should expect to see when finished.

To make a long post short, are the tweaks going to make a really big difference on DVD / SD programming, or are they more subtle?

Cognitive Dissonance:

if learning something has been difficult, uncomfortable, or even humiliating enough, people are not likely to admit that the content of what has been learned is not valuable. To do so would be to admit that one has been "had", or "conned". - James Atherton

Before I get flamed, I am not commenting on anyone who has, or thinks they have, seen positive quality changes from tweaking. Cognitive dissonance is just something I think of often, when I read internet message boards.

I don't really understand why there are such long threads on the fox thing. Is this a dispute about whose "fault" it is, or whether Fox HD is inferior? Actually, I'm not sure what anyone's fighting about.

What I do know is that when I turn on my tv and look at high definition programming on any channel other than fox, it's better than fox. It just is. PBS is better. NBC is better. CBS is better. HBO is better. All of these sources seem roughly the same as one another to me, and each of them is better than Fox. This is true of my local fox and my east and west coast high def fox feeds on directv.

When I talk to friends in other parts of the country with HD and ask them what it's like for them, they pretty much say the same thing.

Is this subjective, well, yes of course. PQ seems almost by definition subjective. But so? It seems lots and lots of us agree. Is the suggestion by the fox defenders that we're all drinking the same kool aid and just don't know what we're seeing? That seems a little like wishful thinking to me by folks who have some interest in convincing others that fox is ok.

Originally posted by lark
...Is the suggestion by the fox defenders that we're all drinking the same kool aid and just don't know what we're seeing?...

This will probably be my last time speaking of this subject, as I already stated this discussion is best served outside this thread.

I, for one, have enough respect for you and others who say FOX PQ is not as good as what else they see to NOT tell you you're either crazy or lying, so I hope you don't feel that this is what you are hearing, as that would be an indicator of the same original problem: perception vs. reality. I don't deny the perception that FOX programs or footbal might not have the PQ you would expect when you sit down in front of your set for a minute, nor do I deny that there may be a lot of truth to it (IOW that it is not purely perception or that folks are fooling themselves). If FOX looks worse on your set than anyone else, it does. I would be the last person to try to convince you it doesn't. I have no vested interest in FOX nor do I have any particular allegiance. And I certainly don't presume to have all of the answers. I do know enough about how things work technically in that regard, however, so I can explain where the problem is NOT originating from. That's all.

My main point is that any degradation of PQ that folks see on FOX has nothing to do with how they acquire NFL signals, nor does it have anything to do with how FOX manipulates or ditributes the signals, and for all O&O and many affiliated stations, has nothing to do with how they are broadcast. There may be problems, but that just ain't WHERE they are coming from. That is all I'm saying. Well, almost.

I also am saying that perception can be modified by a lot of things. Human perception is a very fragile and impressionable thing, and it is easy to get off the true path and be influenced by things that one would expect at first to have little if any affect on perception. But they do. That's just human nature. If a person is evil and clever enough he can actually convince a large part of the public that a war hero is a war criminal. We saw that happen last year, and it was a prime example of how perception is malleable.

Superstition is something that exists for even advanced societies, although it is more prevalent in primitive cultures, again, because it is human nature. But it is our responsibility to seek the truth and evolve beyond that tendency. It's apparently not an easy task. Please don't condemn me for trying to do my small part. There is no intent on my part to condemn folks who have a hard time swallowing the truth. We all struggle with that. But killing the messenger is never a good idea.

Peace to all. I'm pretty much done with this one.

Originally posted by jklast
Well, I decided to buy a DVD player with up-conversion and HDMI (Toshiba SD-5970). The PQ difference between my Sony "plain" progressive player and this new one is quite noticeable on my 50WE655. Well worth the $169.

Jeff

I've also been looking for an upconvert DVD player for my 55WF655. I bought the Samsung HD841 for $140 and took it back the next day as it seemed to loose detail in dark scenes which my 5 year old, Sony DVP-C650D , didn't.

Today I was at Tweeter and looking for some advice and the sales guys told me that the less than $700 upconvert players weren't worth it becuse the processor in the TV would do a better job. His suggestion was to just buy good player without a Digital out and have it send the signal via component and have the TV deal with it. Now I'm confused, did this guy know what he was talking about?

any help would be appreciated.

-Bruce

Gosh i just got the 55wf655 and hd841 with a jan 05 build date,and the pix is much better then with my older sony non PS dvd player.
I have both comp. and dvi/hdmi connected to A/B it.The dvi is sharper, just as much black detail as with my HD cable.

Drifter I have the 60XS also and had it calibrated by a pro and I would say the changes were more subtle, but improved, than out of the box. That being said this TV is fabulous.

Originally posted by bruce24

any help would be appreciated.

-Bruce

I also just purchased a 55WF655 and replaced my old Sony DVD with a Sony 975, and connected it via HDMI and noticed a considerable improvement. I don't know if the set upconverts better or not, but then I'm not as techno-advanced as most of the posters here. It just looks better now with the new player.

Originally posted by TomCat
The GWIV's have quite a lot of brightness headroom, too. One thing I recommend is using the "power saver" mode, which reduces the light from the bulb from 132w to 100w (the standard brightness of last year's models). Not only will you still have plenty of brightness even in a brightly sunlit room, the reduced light output means less light leak inside the cabinet meaning the absolute black level will be much more acceptable. Also, it should significantly improve bulb life, LCD life, and even somewhat reduce the fan noise (less heat means fewer high cycles for the cooling fan). Turn it on when you get the set installed, and leave it on.

Tomcat, any comments along the lines of the above in setting the Gamma Corrector to something other than off? Interested in your opinion of using it or not.

Thanks,

Originally posted by jojo57
Gosh i just got the 55wf655 and hd841 with a jan 05 build date,and the pix is much better then with my older sony non PS dvd player.
I have both comp. and dvi/hdmi connected to A/B it.The dvi is sharper, just as much black detail as with my HD cable.

I had a copy of the third Lord of the Rings in my old Sony and the Samsung 841 and switched the input on the TV between the two. To me there was an obvious issue with the Samsung in the dark scenes.

Originally posted by IamtheWolf
Tomcat, any comments along the lines of the above in setting the Gamma Corrector to something other than off? Interested in your opinion of using it or not.

Thanks,

While I'm a bit surprised that you might still value my opinion :) I personally do not use the gamma corrector or black stretch. I think you can get whatever range or tweaking you need from brightness and contrast, and futzing with gamma would probably have mostly insignificant impact. It certainly will not improve absolute black level, as it does not change the light output inside the cabinet.

I am a bit curious, though, but it would be hard to do any true experimentation without controlled images. Since I have no HD Tivo that I can freeze frame a test pattern from (I am limited to moving video from HD OTA) that makes things difficult, but I plan to have that eventually, at which point I will try to suss that one out.

There is theoretically some benefit. Manipulating brightness and contrast is essentially just that, only linear changes and the transfer characteristic remains the same. Manipulating gamma means changing the transfer curve, so that the proportions of one gray scale step to another can be altered, which means there might be an opportunity to help resolve black detail a little clearer (not so much change the resolution, but alter the brightness of darker detail without raising the actual black pedestal, thereby making it easier to see), and LCDs need all the help they can get in that area.

Originally posted by TomCat
While I'm a bit surprised that you might still value my opinion :) ...
Why would you say that? We agree, right? :)
1. The end result of you-know-who's Football game showing can be improved vs others (relax, I'm only talking Football). BTW, I'm interested in what "Turf Cam" does today. Read about it in the HDTV Programming thread for the game.
2. I admit I know far less than almost everyone that posts on this forum, and have nothing but respect for the information providers, particularly someone that knows as much as you do. Thanks!
3. We both appear able (ready?) to disagree without being disagreeable.
4. Most importantly, we both rather talk about the GWIV.
Peace

I had a copy of the third Lord of the Rings in my old Sony and the Samsung 841 and switched the input on the TV between the two. To me there was an obvious issue with the Samsung in the dark scenes

I have the following settings 55WF655
standard
pix 54
bright40
color37
sharp37
color neut.
power saver on

Is the power save feature avbl in the newer 50WE655's ?

Jeff

Absolutely.

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=KDF50WE655&Dept=tv&CategoryName=tv_hdtv_projectiontv

Download the manual and go to page 99.

Originally posted by IamtheWolf
...The end result of you-know-who's Football game showing can be improved vs others...Most importantly, we both rather talk about the GWIV.
Peace

Agreed, pretty much on all points. I appreciate your open-mindedness. :cool:

Actually, from where I'm sitting there doesn't appear to be much room for improvement left. SB looks darn near perfect. The closest thing to an artifact seems to be "glisteny" blades of grass on the SuperCam (or whatever they've taken to calling it) which means possibly an inherent problem in the microwave chain that gets those images from the flying position over the stadium preventing optimum rez. And even that shot still looks pretty amazing. I see absolutely no trace of motion artifacts, even on quick sweeping pans close up, and even the shots into the seats where there is little light seem to have no noise or other problems. I saw the tiniest glitch on a "Batman Begins" commercial, but that's it. It looks to me like you-know-who is acquitting themselves admirably. :)

TomCat,

I just downloaded the manual. Unfortunately, the manual (on page 99) states that the power saving is available for the WF655 series only (I have the we655 and was looking forward to trying the power saver feature).

--orccro

Originally posted by IamtheWolf
1. The end result of you-know-who's Football game showing can be improved vs others (relax, I'm only talking Football). BTW, I'm interested in what "Turf Cam" does today. Read about it in the HDTV Programming thread for the game . . . .
4. Most importantly, we both rather talk about the GWIV.
Peace

Well, in the interest of harmony, and to merge both subjects, at halftime, the fox broadcast of the superbowl on my GWIV (60xs955) looks as good as anything I've seen yet in HD.

So whatever stops fox is pulling out for this game, they've done an excellent job.

I concur - the FOX HD broadcast of the SB looks AMAZING on my 55WF :)

Originally posted by TomCat
...SB looks darn near perfect. The closest thing to an artifact seems to be "glisteny" blades of grass on the SuperCam (or whatever they've taken to calling it) which means possibly an inherent problem in the microwave chain that gets those images from the flying position over the stadium preventing optimum rez. ....

Was over in the HDTV Programmers thread during the game. As I said there, awesome broadcast by FOX. None of the issues from earlier games occurred. Funny, but I thought the SuperCam (overhead?) was a major plus in the Playoff games. Never expected a problem today (yes, had audio drops and hesitation when they switched to it). Not an issue here.

Overall, an awesome broadcast. (Glisten was minimal, but I sat about 12-15 feet from my 55XS, a little far I'm told). I've learned (so far) that my 55XS is just one huge magnifier, as is my audio set-up. As a fairly new owner I have pretty much stopped looking at the GWIV as the source of any problems.

Originally posted by orccro
TomCat,

I just downloaded the manual. Unfortunately, the manual (on page 99) states that the power saving is available for the WF655 series only (I have the we655 and was looking forward to trying the power saver feature).

--orccro

That's unfortunate, and I stand corrected (orthopedic shoes :D ).

IMO, the power saver is the most dramatic improvement to the blacks that you can make. It would be a deal-breaker for me, at this point, making me at first tend to recommend against sets without it.

But, there is more good news...if you have the 42 or 50 WE, you have a 100w bulb instead of a 132w bulb, meaning you are in the equivalent of power saver mode on the XS, all of the time. That means the same visual advantage, less heat, and less fan noise, but not the potential bulb life extension.

My guess is that the 132w bulb is an attempt by Sony to raise the brightness level to compete on the showroom floor with everyone else. Sometimes the set with the highest brightness is the one that sells, just like speakers with higher efficiency are louder in A/B tests, and at first APPEAR to sound "better" even though they really might not, and will sell better because of it.

But, the 132w bulb compromises the absolute black level more than a dimmer bulb, which in a showroom is less noticeable. Thankfully, they compromised by adding the power saver feature to these sets, but it is not needed in the WE 42 or 50.

As much as I would like to say the SB looked stunning in HD I can't. But only because I had to watch via D* SD, However, something was done differently. The SD was the best I have seen for a football game yet!!

Originally posted by Mtnmike
As much as I would like to say the SB looked stunning in HD I can't. But only because I had to watch via D* SD,

The SuperBowl WAS "stunning" in HD this year.... At my party (60XS955) there was eye popping and oohhs and ahhs throughout. The running gag was along the lines of: "In SD I couldn't tell if his knee touched the ground, but in High Definition I know for sure!".

And when McCartney did "Live and Let Die" with all the pyrotechnics... "impressed" is an understatement for our room.

Originally posted by DaverJ
.... At my party ....
Heck, no invite? I'm only next door. Glad it worked out.

Well, I received my replacement KDF55WF655 and the fan is definitely less obtrusive than the first one. The first set did have some other problems that the new does not.

I am noticing the fan noise less now, but I’m going to try some cork board behind the set to see if that helps (even more). Otherwise, I really do like the set and I got a great deal on it, so I hope the fan noise won’t be a deal breaker.

NoPlasma,

Glad you went 55?

Originally posted by jmdaniel
NoPlasma,

Glad you went 55?

Yes, very much so. I'm also glad I bought it from a place that would exchange the set. Peace of mind is a wonderful thing.........

Some of us aren't so dumb, eh?? :)

Originally posted by NoPlasmaYet
Well, I received my replacement KDF55WF655 and the fan is definitely less obtrusive than the first one.

Glad to hear you got this worked out. From your earlier posts it sure sounded like you had a defective set.

Originally posted by jmdaniel
Some of us aren't so dumb, eh?? :)

What?
It's dumb to save almost $1000 by buying the set online?
Guess that's one's opinion. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Drifter
I have a 60XS955.
The tweak threads seem to be popular, with most people raving about the differences after the tweaks are applied. My question is, just how much difference is there?

Sometimes people can see a massive difference because they *want* to, especially after spending a few hours tweaking.


Depends on how you see. How objectionable are the color errors on your set to you? Everyone sees differently. Every set is slightly different too.

Selecting Pro mode makes the single biggest improvment to out of the box performance. I used DVE to do a user menu calibration. With the set the way it is now, I can tell the color temperature on whites and grays on my set is off slightly. The color is also off a bit in a direction the tint control can't correct. I've turned down the color control a bit. De-saturating the colors made the error less objectionable. I'm not ready to pay hundreds of dollars to have this corrected, even though the gray error does bother me.

If I still had access to a PR-650 (http://www.photoresearch.com/current/pr650rgb.asp) I'd attempt doing a service menu calibration myself. I don't feel comfortable doing this level of adjustment just by eye.

Originally posted by midnightscape
What?
It's dumb to save almost $1000 by buying the set online?
Guess that's one's opinion. :rolleyes:


midnightscape,

It's certainly not dumb to save $1000. You just have to be comfortable with your decision. In my case I did save more than that by buying in a store. I guess (for once) my timing was just right.......................

Best buy had the KDF42WE655 for $1998 last week and it is $1997 this week. Can anyone shed some light on why they are unloading this TV? Is it any good?

Originally posted by AkaStp
How many bulb hours should one let accumulate on the 55XS955 (in low power mode, with high altitude set to on, and Pro picture mode setting) before getting it calibrated?

I don't think you will see a lot of shift in the bulb over time, except possibly when it is very new or very old. A few days to be on the safe side seems prudent. The picture setting should not matter. Low power might make any burn-in take a bit longer, and high altitude might also.

Originally posted by TomCat
I don't think you will see a lot of shift in the bulb over time, except possibly when it is very new or very old. A few days to be on the safe side seems prudent. The picture setting should not matter. Low power might make any burn-in take a bit longer, and high altitude might also.

Don't have to worry about burn-in. It does not occur in an LCD set. As far as I know, the high altitude setting runs the fan faster and longer. Don't know if this would actually prolong bulb life.

Chris

Originally posted by midnightscape
What?
It's dumb to save almost $1000 by buying the set online?
Guess that's one's opinion. :rolleyes:

My post had nothing to do with buying online. It was was directed to NoPlasmaYet, who I, (and a few others), started directing towards a 55", from a 50", quite some time ago....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4987879#post4987879

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5009817#post5009817


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5011675#post5011675

Hey, from an ex 'sotan to a current, only 10 weeks of crap weather left for ya!
:cool:

Originally posted by OneBadMutha
Best buy had the KDF42WE655 for $1998 last week and it is $1997 this week. Can anyone shed some light on why they are unloading this TV? Is it any good?
Really?? Is this a national thing? or just specific locations?

I walked through my BB this weekend and I didn't see it that low. It was still $2300ish on sale.

Unless you saw the KDF42WE610 maybe? I remember seeing that a month or so ago on clearence for about $1900ish with limited availability.

Ouch, my March Consumer Reports arrived and their ratings of rear-projection microdisplay sets (50+ inch sets) has my 50WE655 ranked 11 out of 13!. It really gets dinged for DVD playback picture quality and for HD programming picture quality. Is this set really that bad in comarison to the others? I realize that black levels on this set are not too great. I wonder if this is the reason for the bad rankings.

--orccro

Originally posted by orccro
Ouch, my March Consumer Reports arrived and their ratings of rear-projection microdisplay sets (50+ inch sets) has my 50WE655 ranked 11 out of 13!. It really gets dinged for DVD playback picture quality and for HD programming picture quality. Is this set really that bad in comarison to the others? I realize that black levels on this set are not too great. I wonder if this is the reason for the bad rankings.

--orccro

orccro,

Stop right there and don't worry about CR's ranking. I take any review with a grain of salt. I remember reading a CR car issue (when I was buying a car). In one part they had a bunch of complaints, in another review (same issue of the magazine, same car, different reviewer?) the reviewer loved it.

So, if you are happy with the set why bother getting worked up over a CR article?

Originally posted by orccro
Ouch, my March Consumer Reports arrived and their ratings of rear-projection microdisplay sets (50+ inch sets) has my 50WE655 ranked 11 out of 13!. It really gets dinged for DVD playback picture quality and for HD programming picture quality. Is this set really that bad in comarison to the others? I realize that black levels on this set are not too great. I wonder if this is the reason for the bad rankings.

--orccro I wouldn't even sweat that. In fact, it's probably a good thing. CR knows absolutely nothing about electronics or technology. They're good for appliances and cars and thats about it. I've followed their reviews for PDAs, Computers, and other electronics and they couldn't be further from the mark. CR is about as uneducated as the consumers.