"Correct" is in the eye of the beholder!

The Bush stand is 24" tall. IMO it is aproximately optimal.

rmullin,

How do you like the pq of your WF? I was up in Montreal over the weekend and saw one on display at the Sony Store. They had the DVD of Spiderman playing and I wasn't too impressed with the pq. How's SD on your set? I definetly like the look of the WF (black border) over the WE (all silver).

Originally posted by rmullin
"Correct" is in the eye of the beholder!

The Bush stand is 24" tall. IMO it is aproximately optimal.

Regarding stand heigth, the screen is brightest when its centerpoint is eye level.

On my 60" GWIII, the appropriate Sony stand was 18" high. I'm using a tech craft that has a height of 19" (after modification). Since I like slouching on the sofa(basically a horizontal position), I was able to raise the sofa some by replacing the screw out legs on it with some that were a few inches longer.

timick1:

The picture quality is excellent. SD is usually very good (depending on the source), digital cable can be very good or over-compressed (again, depending on the source - some channels are transmitted with extreme compression and nothing at the home end can replace the lost picture quality).

HD is usually incredible. I say usually, because again some channels at some times are kinda compressed. But the stuff most want to see like live HD sporting events and HBO-HD and most network HD broadcasts are phenomenally good. The black levels are very black, and the detail level is extremely sharp - even with the "sharpness" setting very low.

Well, I've decided to return my GWIV today due to "quality" issues. My tuner/TV memory is so screwed up!!!

Again, the TV is stuck on the last channel that it was powered down on and there's nothing I can do short of reseting the TV or running Auto Program again to make it switch channels.

I'm trying really hard to make myself want to exchange it for another. I love everything else about this TV...the PQ is excellent for HD and most Digital programming and the SD is rather good for most analog channels as well...but the friggin' tuner or memory controller sucks! I shouldn't be having this kind of problem with the set right out of the box.

Oh well...I guess it's better for it to crap out now than 1 year and 1 day from now when the warranty is up.

Question...I purchased the TV at BB, will they give me any crap for trying to exchange it for the same model? I know they have a "30 Day" policy, but the last thing I want to deal with right now is a stubborn sales person. I just want a TV that works!!!

Originally posted by radius360

Question...I purchased the TV at BB, will they give me any crap for trying to exchange it for the same model? I know they have a "30 Day" policy, but the last thing I want to deal with right now is a stubborn sales person. I just want a TV that works!!!

I doubt BB is going to be unhappy with this. They just send the set back to Sony as defective and give you a new one. They still keep your money.

Originally posted by radius360
...Again, the TV is stuck on the last channel that it was powered down on and there's nothing I can do short of reseting the TV or running Auto Program again to make it switch channels. ...There is a "Channel Fix" option in the menu which sets the TV to a particular channel. Did you happen to have that set?

Cheers!

Darrh,

Yep, I've checked the channel fix and made sure that the unit wasn't switched into the ANT mode.

A Sony field rep called me this morning. After speaking with him, it doesn't seem like I've done anything wrong. My best guess is that the unit has a faulty memory module.

rmullin,

Could you post the model number of your Bush stand, or a link to somewhere on line? I think it looks great, but I can't seem to find it.

Thanks a lot, hope you are enjoying your new TV!

Bush "plasma tv stand" model VS31543. It arrived about 10 days or so after I ordered it online.

Here's where I bought mine:

http://www.bush-furniture-online.com/bush_VS31543.html

I'm sure there are many other vendors, also stocked at some BB stores.

radius360,

We seem to have the same problem with that KDF42's tuner. Sony repairman will be at my home tomorrow and I'll see what he says. Will give them one crack to fix it if they cannot will ship it back to PCMall where I bough it. Will post results tomorrow.

I recently got my KDF42WE655 and have been having lots of fun setting it up. This forum has been quite helpful, so I thought I'd share an interesting bit of news about TV stands. I agree with everyone that the Sony stands are way too expensive. Still, they complement the TV well, and they have that nice clip-in safety strap in the back. Well, I took a chance and went to my local Circuit City. I purchased the OLD style Sony stand (SU-GW2), originally made for the KE42WE610 (GWIII series). The stand is a perfect fit with the newer KDF42WE655. The TV fits perfectly on the stand, the color matches, and the safety strap clips into the back just fine. However, since CC is now stocking the new stand, they gave me the old one at a price of $189. No joke. $189. This is not a typo.

The weight of the KDF42WE655 is the same as the KE42WE610. The dimensions are more or less the same. The old style SUGW2 stand is therefore fine for the new TV. The only difference I can see between the SU-GW2 (old) and the SU-GW11 (new) stands is that the new one has a vertical panel in the back for cable control. I actually prefer the stand without this panel (cleaner look), so I'm happy.

For those of you still searching for a stand, I would recommend calling your local CCs and BBs and seeing if they will give you a deal on the older stand made for the GWIII model that corresponds to your new GWIV.

Check out the SWE42 stand from Tech Craft. Also, the SWE50 and SWE60 stands.

I have an SWE50 for my 50" GWIII model, and it matches the look of the Sony TV perfectly. Bought for under $300. from Sears on a price match. And, yes, it has a screw on the back to hold the Sony LCD TV in place to keep it from tipping.

Check out www.techcraft.net.

Let us know how this works out.

Alan

Originally posted by mig213
radius360,

We seem to have the same problem with that KDF42's tuner. Sony repairman will be at my home tomorrow and I'll see what he says. Will give them one crack to fix it if they cannot will ship it back to PCMall where I bough it. Will post results tomorrow.

mig213,

The same problem...really? Have you noticed any pattern to the frequency/amount of time it takes for the TV to get "locked" to the last channel? So far, I haven't been able to pin it down. Sometimes it takes several hours, other times I've seen it do it in 20 minutes.

I take it you spoke with Sony customer service? They were pretty useless, weren't they? Did you by any chance get a call from the Sony Field Tech. like it did? I have the name and number of the one that called me this morning. If you'd like to contact him and fill him in on what you're seeing, I'd be happy to PM you his number.

Please, keep me posted on what the Sony Repair person finds out. Regardless, I'm going to exchange mine tonight for another set and hope that my faith in Sony will be restored.

Originally posted by rmullin
I purchased a Bush stand online for my 55WF655, and I understand it is also available at BB. I did NOT want the "sony" look for the stand, but wanted more of a credenza style. Had to spend a couple hours putting it together, but it was a LOT cheaper than anything of similar style at furniture stores. We wanted a "furniture look" that matched some of the maple furniture in the room. It works.

I don't see why it would be liable to tipping. Most of the weight is in the rear - you'd have to really pull hard to make it tumble forward. I think the "safety strap" idea is driven by the liability folks and by the marketing guys for their stand.

Attached is a photo of my setup.

And here is the stand in use with a GWIII! It also has the matching bookcases. All this for less than $800 delivered! The other great thing about it are the glass doors that can be easily child proofed(see picture if you need a reason why this is important). I also put the center section to good use by placing my sub in their. It does dampen it a bit but if your wife refuses to have this large black box in the corner then that is your best option.

What are some DVD player recommendations for the GWIVs? My folks are choosing between the 50WE and the 55WF and need to get a new DVD player as well. Is an upconverting player the way to go with these sets (Zenith 318, e.g.)? Or should they just go with a high quality 480p unit such as a Denon?

Originally posted by Primate
local Circuit City. I purchased the OLD style Sony stand (SU-GW2), originally made for the KE42WE610 (GWIII series). The stand is a perfect fit with the newer KDF42WE655. The TV fits perfectly on the stand, the color matches, and the safety strap clips into the back just fine. However, since CC is now stocking the new stand, they gave me the old one at a price of $189. No joke. $189. This is not a typo.

[EDIT- Receipt scans are against forum rules]

radius360,

I only had the channel "locked" once or twice. Had to reprogram to "unlock" it as Sony's Customer service advised me to do. They were pretty useless and obviously were reading off a database of some sort and going thru what their screen tells them to do!?@

Anyway my other problem is that I just lose my signal intermittently. What I mean is sometimes I am able to watch TV for an hour sometimes 4 to 5 hours and then suddenly I can a No Signal on my screen. I've called Sony thrice and the third time I told them that they have to send someone over to inspect my TV. I even video'd it happening so that I can show it to the repairman tomorrow. It's maddening. BTW I only have basic cable but do get several digital channels even HBO HD for free!!! (probably good for only a few weeks as Comcast will probably encrypt it soon).

Pattern I've noticed is if I lose the signal I can turn off the TV for 20-30 minutes and then when I turn it back on signal comes back!! It;s not Comcast's signal that's the problem as I have had them come over to check and they told me that TV tuner is th problem. I've set up another CRT Wega TV beside it and yes the KDF42 drops the signal while the CRT Wega does not.

I'll update you tomorrow. Will decide then if I'll order another KDF42 to replace or go for the Panny 42 EDTV.

Mig213,

Sounds to me like you're having worse troubles than I am with the TV...ugh! I hope the repairman is able to fix your issues. So far, I'm have only experienced the channel "locking" problem. I haven't seen my tuner drop programming, but then again, I haven't watched TV for more than maybe 4 or 5 hours at a time in the last few days.

Good call on videoing the loss of signal! When you talk to these people, they think your crazy...nothing could be wrong with the TV...yeah, right. My unit is currently stuck on channel 13. I plan to leave it that way until I take it back to BB tonight. Hopefully, that will get my point across.

Like you, I'm getting HD content for free! I guess my cable company is too cheap (or bankrupt) to care at this point in time. SHO-HD, HBO-HD and a few others are coming in clear as a bell and I only have basic cable. Hehehe...

Question...how's your system hooked up to the signal? I assume that you aren't using a cable box? I wonder if more people aren't seeing this problem because the use of a cable box forces you to Channel Fix your TV to a specific channel. They don't channel surf in the same mode that we do...straight through the TV, not through the box.

radius360,

Hooked up from the wall to the CABLE input of the TV.

Maybe you're right, Radius about not many people seeing this problem as they have a box. I think getting a cable box will solve my problem but I really just want basic cable not the standard or digital cable and the additonal $30 ++ that goes with it.

May get a cable box if that's the only way I can get HD but since its free right now thru cable I see no reason in getting it right now. In fact, I returned the OTA Antenna I gotfrom Radio Shack when I saw I had HD thru Comcast basic cable.

BTW, what channel is SHO-HD in? I think I only get HBO-HD @ 30.1, HBO signature @ 80.2 and another HBO channel?? @ 80.1.

Well, all I can say is that I HOPE this is simply a case of bad tuners or controllers and not a more widespread problem due to a poor design. If you can't run cable directly into your TV with a box, how do they expect you to watch TV with a cable card??? I really wish more people out there were running direct cable as their setup. Then we might have more people to probe on this issue.

I'm off to return my TV now...

hrmm my OTA antenna does that i should really order cable/satellite soon i hope it doesnt drop like the OTA antenna...

So, Wow what a deal, due to cable card, just for price of standard cable you get high def cable free? am I right?

Hey guys new to this forum... so I just got the 620 model coming in this sat... can't wait... anyway couple of things I heard the GWIII upconvert something higher then 720p something like 766p not sure... but anyway I'm hooking up a HTPC box to it and before I set it up at 720p I want to make sure if the tv upconverts it what I should set it at... I know there will be issues getting it aligned properly etc but what is the IDEAL resolution on these tvs? I know there is a res that's recomended by sony I'm not sure if that's native though because of the upconversion...

I just want to get it setup to run on one resolution on the HTPC and leave it at that and tweak settings to get it perfectly on the one res... so anyone know what it is?

Has anyone seen the KDF-55WF655 & KDF-50WE655 side by side OR seen both at seperate stores. Are they about equal in picture quality? I will be viewing from 8 feet.

Is there SDE from 8 feet on either one of these sets?

The WF looked much better to me but anybody could have changed the settings on either set before I saw them.

Originally posted by abarsami
Has anyone seen the KDF-55WF655 & KDF-50WE655 side by side OR seen both at seperate stores. Are they about equal in picture quality? I will be viewing from 8 feet.

Is there SDE from 8 feet on either one of these sets?

The service manual shows them to use the same major components on the circuit block diagram.

Originally posted by umr
The service manual shows them to use the same major components on the circuit block diagram.
Is this the same for the WF & XS?

Mig213,

Guess what, I got my second 42WE655 home and set up and it's experiencing the same "channel locking" problem that the other one had. What's going on???

Again, my setup is a follows...standard cable from my wall directly connected to the Cable input on the TV. I do have an active cable modem connection. The strange thing about all of this is that I'm receiving quite a bit of HD programming that I probably shouldn't be getting...SHO-HD, HBO-HD, INHD, INHD2, HDNET, FOXHD, etc. I do not have a cable card or a cable box connected to my TV. I do not subscribe to any pay channels. I only had SD analog programming with my old TV.

So, I'm beginning to think that a memory problem isn't what's troubling my TV. The question now is, what is all of this unauthorized content doing to my TV??? This doesn't make any sense...or does it. I wouldn't think that the signal could be screwing with my TV.

Anyone care to chime in? This is driving me nuts!!!

Xlent,

I'm confused by your post...are you stating that your 655 is experiencing the same channel locking problem that Mig213 and I are both seeing with our TV's but with the UHF/VHF input and an antenna connection? When you turn your TV off, does it get "stuck" on the last channel and loose it's memory of all other channels?

I'm getting mixed info regarding the KDF42WE655 built in tuner(s). Sony advertises the set having an ATSC tuner for OTA HD broadcasts. I tried to read all these postings & perhaps I missed something, but can this set receive HD via cable? It appears some people are using a cable STB, and others are not. Is this correct? I ask because I have seen other manufacturers advertise their sets as having a QAM tuner in order to receive HD cable. But I do not see Sony listing a QAM tuner. What am I missing here?

Mike

The Sony can receive OTA standard and HD signals. It can receive HD cable. With a cablecard, the Sony onboard tuner can receive any premium cable channels you subscribe to without using a cable box. It does an extremely good job of SD from any source, and brilliant HD from cable or an antenna. The only thing it doesn't do is pay your cable bill.

Originally posted by arkid
Is this the same for the WF & XS?

Maybe, I don't have all the details on the XS yet. The XS has the same service data options as the WF.

The WE Series HD sets have two separate inputs:

1. UHF/VHF: this tuner will decode all OTA signals both digital and analog.
2. Cable: this tuner will decode both QAM analog and unencrypted "in the clear" digital.

Some people, like me, are using a Cable STB because of its HD DVR...however, I also split the cable and ran one line directly into the Cable port on the back of the Sony.

I have the 42WE655 connected to basic analog cable directly to the TV and have not seen any channel locking issues. Both myself and wife channel surf a lot and change inputs a lot also.

Originally posted by riffjim4069
The WE Series HD sets have two separate inputs:

1. UHF/VHF: this tuner will decode all OTA signals both digital and analog.
2. Cable: this tuner will decode both QAM analog and unencrypted "in the clear" digital.

Some people, like me, are using a Cable STB because of its HD DVR...however, I also split the cable and ran one line directly into the Cable port on the back of the Sony.

Riffjim,

So, if I understand you correctly, you're spliting the cable signal between the STB (which goes to the UHF/VHF input) and another cable output (which is run into the Cable input)? Have you noticed any strange behavior with the cable run directly into the Cable input? Both 655's that I have had in the last 3 days have not functioned properly when the cable was directly applied to the Cable input. All channel memory is cleared and the unit is stuck on the last channel before power down. Do you see this effect?

I'm beginning to wonder if running my cable directly into the TV is somehow screwing with the tuner. I can't say whether it's intentional or unintentional. All I know is that I have programming that I shouldn't be receiving and I question whether that isn't somehow related to the problems I'm having.

Does anyone have any thoughts?

Originally posted by MEF48
I have the 42WE655 connected to basic analog cable directly to the TV and have not seen any channel locking issues. Both myself and wife channel surf a lot and change inputs a lot also.

Okay, have you noticed that you have content that should be a pay service (like Showtime or HBO) that you didn't get before that you have now? I'm seeing both of those in HD. I never subbed to either before, but I have them now and they're being decoded by my 655's tuner.

I'm just trying to narrow down what the differences are.

How many other people on this board are running cable directly into the Cable input and what channels are you seeing?

I know of one other person so far that is running the cable like I am and is receiving premium content that he never paid for. He's seen the loss of memory/channel lock problem too. Is there a connection?

yes, over last weekend showtime sd was available because it was a free preview weekend. I checked today and there is no signal on those channels now.

Originally posted by MEF48
yes, over last weekend showtime sd was available because it was a free preview weekend. I checked today and there is no signal on those channels now.

Well, I still have SHO-HD, HBO-HD, etc. and I never, ever subbed to them. So, why do I still have all those channels?

I should clarify one thing...My initial intent when purchasing my 655 was to purchase satellite service with HD programming. I never intended to keep my cable service. I simply wanted to hook up my TV to my SD cable and watch some programming until I ordered my dish. The free content initially turned out to be a bonus, now I'm not so sure.

All I really want is a TV that behaves in a predictable manner and receives HD content without all of the problems with channel memory/locking that I've been having. I have no issue with paying for programming. This whole thing now comes down to the intellectual curiosity of why the TV is doing what it's doing. If I can have the problem, then so can others. If there's something that Sony isn't telling us, or we don't fully understand how the ATSC tuners really work, then I want to know.

The Sony isn't doing anything magical to get you the HD channels that you don't subscribe to. Your cable company simply hasn't locked the HD channels yet. I'm sure if you ask them to, they will scramble them right away.

I did same thing you are going to do. keep sd cable and use sat for HD. One thing I found funny when i called cable co about cable card. the told me they had cable cards but they were not for HD content? They told me I had to have a box to receive HD programing. Any way I was hoping to be able to get my local channels in HD from cable without a box. This set so new I am sorry I can't comment on the problem your having but if it happens to me I'll let you know.

Originally posted by rmullin
The Sony isn't doing anything magical to get you the HD channels that you don't subscribe to. Your cable company simply hasn't locked the HD channels yet. I'm sure if you ask them to, they will scramble them right away.

I agree, there's no magic here. The HD channels are not being scrambled at the moment. The issue is, why is my 655 losing all of it's channel memory that was programmed during the Auto Programming sequence? I find it hard to believe that I exchanged my 1st 655 for another one with the same problem. If that's the case, then Sony is probably producing thousands of units with faulty tuners. The only conclusion I can come to is that somehow (as strange as it may sound), the unscrambled cable content that I'm getting from my provider, is in some way negatively affecting my Cable tuner input.

One note, I did run the Auto Programming sequence this morning with the cable line connected to the UHF/VHF input. I have not yet seen any loss of channel memory when connected in that manner. All of the digital and HD content is gone and I only receive about 20 channels. I can channel surf in this mode. Now, when I switch the connection to the Cable input, the TV is still locked to one channel. I can't channel surf at all. Channels must be manually entered via the key pad.

Originally posted by MEF48
I did same thing you are going to do. keep sd cable and use sat for HD. One thing I found funny when i called cable co about cable card. the told me they had cable cards but they were not for HD content? They told me I had to have a box to receive HD programing. Any way I was hoping to be able to get my local channels in HD from cable without a box. This set so new I am sorry I can't comment on the problem your having but if it happens to me I'll let you know.

Mef48,

I think the phone operators for your cable company are as half-retarded as mine. I called my cable company twice and could never get a definitive answer as to whether or not HD content was available. The first person said that it might be and the other said it wasn't. I knew for a fact that the local Listen Up Audio store down the road from me had it. And I know now that I'm getting it.

Anyway, my point being is that your cable provider really doesn't want you to use a cable card because the monthly rental fee on that is only about $1.75 (according to my local provider) and the cost of the HD box is about $8. They just want your money. The operator I spoke with kept telling me how "unhappy" I would be with the cable card because I you don't get the interactive menus. Cable cards only operate in a single direction. It's not bi-directional.

I'd suggest you call again and speak to someone else. Probe them on that point again. I don't see why they would offer cable cards that didn't handle HD. It doesn't make any sense. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

radius360:

I would suggest going into the 'diagnostics' menu and checking the signal quality. Does it show that your cable operator is using 256-QAM or 64-QAM? 64-QAM is more rugged, but has a lower data rate. If you QAM demodulator is taking a lot of errors on a particular channel, maybe it removes it from the channel list. My guess is that maybe you are receiving the 64-QAM signals OK, but 256-QAM is marginal? That would indicate that your cable operator needs to clean up his signal.

For those that are interested in the my channel memory/lock thread...

I just got of the phone with the Sony Apps Engineer that works out the plant where the 655's are produced. We've discussed the problem at length and quite frankly these guys are stumped. They've tried to reproduce the problem at the plant with a cable signal to the Cable input and they don't observe any abnormal operation. The guy is contacting my local BB where I returned the 1st set to see if they can't run some tests on the unit to determine the root cause of the failure.

Suffice to say right now, the guys at the plant have a hard time believing that my cable provider's "free HD content" is causing the problem.

I'll keep you posted on any further developments...

radius360,

Sony repairman just left. He saw the signal drop right before his eyes. And he kep saying "interesting, interesting".

Anyway he tried connecting to the ANT input and he got no signal there. Went back to CABLE input and signal reappeared. He tapped the tv two or three times and the signal blurred, then dropped. He told me there must be something loose internally, probably something with the tuner.

I told him to type in the digital channels and he did and told him these channels never drop and tapped the TV several times and it retained the signal. Now he said that the problem maybe just the analog tuner and the ATSC tuner is ok. He then wrote up his notes and told me that he'll order the parts today (Analog and ATSC tuner) and he'll call me once it arrives. He said that Sony's service database does not have a whole lot of information right now because the product is so new. Hopefully they have the parts for this and this will arrive soon.

Anyway regarding the free HD content I'm getting, I just lost HBO HD, HBo signature and another HBO channel. Still get the local HD broadcasts thru the cable company though.

I read a post asking about this and basically what I heard from a Comcast repairman and the Sony repairman I'm getting it becasue it is in the clear but don't expect this to last long as Comcast will scramble this soon. Which means I either have to install the OTA antenna or pay $5 to Comcast for HD.

Anyway your theory about free HD causing these problems is also "interesting" . I too cannot believe that Quality control @ Sony is that bad. But obviously the repairman thought there is quality issues with the tuner. But I'll believe it when it's repaired. In the meantime, I'll try deleting the HD channels from memory and see what happens. Thanks.

Radius360, what's your location. How come you still have HBO HD. This channel is awesome especially since a lot of their content is 16x9. I'm in the Bay Area BTW.

how much is /month for local cable or std cable with HD?

Has anyone ran a DVE on their tv yet? I have tried to do THX on it and have had some success, but will the DVE give me good results?

By the way, I just got mine sunday and the I have not had any issues with the tuner. I get a few digital channels, about 3 or 4 are local channels that show hd content. I also get all the digital music channels.

ZORO:

I pay about $90 per month for the digital package and both tiers of HD cable (NO HBO or movie extras)..... I also have HD DVR, 2 HD boxes and a standard digital box and those are all extra fees per month.

Mig213,

I'm located in CO. I don't know why I still have unscrambled HDTV. I would imagine that it's because my cable company is too lazy right now to scramble it. I guess they figure that there aren't enough users out there with built in HD tuners.

Good to hear that the repairman was able to observe your dropout issue firsthand. So, were you really experiencing the same channel memory issues that I've seen or was your problem totally different?

If you're game, PM me your contact info and I will forward it on to the Sony Apps engineer at the plant. I'm sure he'd be really interested in speaking to you and the repairman about your troubles with the 655. He seems really eager to get info and investigate problems with the set since it is so new.

I hope your set gets fixed soon. I'm going to wait things out a few more weeks (I still have about 25 days left on the return policy with BB) to see what the Sony guys have to say about my situation. If they can't come up with some reasonable answers/fixes, then I'll more than likely return the unit and get something without a tuner. What's the point in paying for one if I can't use it, right? I'll probably get the Panny. The PQ on those is pretty good and it seems to have all the bells and whistles that the Sony has sans the tuner.

Keep me posted on your progress.

Originally posted by hdiesel1977
Has anyone ran a DVE on their tv yet? I have tried to do THX on it and have had some success, but will the DVE give me good results?

By the way, I just got mine sunday and the I have not had any issues with the tuner. I get a few digital channels, about 3 or 4 are local channels that show hd content. I also get all the digital music channels.

Are you using a cable card/box or straight cable into the TV?

I got my 55WF655 last Friday. Basic Cable plugged straight into the set, no problems yet. It did find about 100 visible digital channels out of about 268. Most of them seem to be the audio channels though that are included with our cable companies digital cable package. BTW, no cable card.

-Shrapnel

I just got my replacement 55WF655 this morning. I was having trapezoidal issues with the first set and CC picked that one up when they delivered the new one. I barely had any chance to test the TV since i was late for work but a quick 1 minute test showed that the trapezoidal issue is gone. Didn't really have much time to scan the entire set and see if there is any dead pixels.

As for tuner problems, I never experienced any problem with the first set. I had cable connected directly to the cable IN of the TV. TV was able to find NBC, CBS, ABC and FOX as HD Channels. Dont have a cable card and will not get one since i dont need any channels descrambled. I'm fine with those four HD channels.

Cant wait to get back home and run AVIA again to calibrate the TV. Will try to post pic later...

Originally posted by radius360
Are you using a cable card/box or straight cable into the TV?

No cable box or cable card. I have standard cable and it is goint though a splitter and I have both vhf/uhf and cable connections connected. I'm thinking about going to walmart to pick up an antenna for OTA since I am not able to get all the local OTA channels through cable.

Originally posted by hdiesel1977
No cable box or cable card. I have standard cable and it is goint though a splitter and I have both vhf/uhf and cable connections connected. I'm thinking about going to walmart to pick up an antenna for OTA since I am not able to get all the local OTA channels through cable.
Well, misery loves company, but I'm glad to hear that other people aren't having the same problem.

Could I really have received 2 TV's that have the same problem??? I guess I'm going to have to check the serial numbers when I get home tonight and see how close they are. Maybe there's a bad batch of tuners out there and I was unfortunate enough to get 2 of them. Possible, I guess...but unlikely.

darwin316

I'd like to here what calibration settings you come up with. I am still watching mine straight out of the box on the non-vivid mode and couldn't be happier......I only watch HDTV and SDTV on the Sony !!

I also only use cable with a DVR HD box.....no card !!!

So you don't watch any DVD content? Right now I'm hit or miss on it, sometimes it's good sometimes not so good. It looks more like film, so i have a theater feel when I watched some of my dvds. However I kinda miss the sharpness I was getting on my 27" set. I need to get a DVE disc so I can finish the calibration since the THX optimizer has not worked to my satisfaction.

HD content the TV is great though! CSI Miami look sweet, especially when they show the panorama shots of the city. Only downside is I'm not getting all of the local digital channels, so I might have to purchase an antenna. I was also suprised by the SD quality, some channels are crappy, but it is still watchable on most channels.

Munu, can you please PM me regarding your Sears purchase details?

radius,

You may be right about it not being cost effective for them to scramble. I don't mind paying for content but if they don't even bother to scrambe these channels then they are allowing it to be free.

Yes I did experience channel locking like you. Has not happened to me lately though. Maybe because there is no channel to "lock" on to. Every channel is "locked out" when the signal drops. Well actually not every channel, the digital channels are always ok.

I'll PM you my contact info later.

If this set does not work out I'm thinking of getting the Panny 42 EDTV which has been getting good reviews on this forum. Have not yet considered the Panny RP LCD as have not seen it first hand but will try to drop by this weekend @ BB and CC to eyeball it.

Will definitely keep everybody posted on this issue.

Here's a pictures of my set(play-off game on). I'll post some more with dvd once i am able to do a DVE.

Here's another with the stand for j*Cio....

and one more

Here is a pic of my setup.

The stand is a z-line maxim collection stand from CC.

currently watching SVU in HD.

http://www.szentpaly.com/600rr/Sony.JPG

My GWII doesn't look bad either on the ALCS...

Another just for fun. Note the color difference between a calibrated set and one that is not. Some differences could be the cameras as well.

Yeah might be a combination of both. I haven't had a chance to calibrate mine yet. I should have DVE by next week, but that will only help with dvd's. Any tips you can give me for calibrating my HD and SD content umr?

darwin316,

How is your view angle on that set and how much did you pay for it? I was looking at that set and thought that it was a tad bit high so I kept the tech craft stand. But I could really use the extra shelf space of that zline stand.

My delivery date moved up on my KDF-60XS955, will have it by this sunday...can't wait!

Originally posted by hdiesel1977
...Any tips you can give me for calibrating my HD and SD content umr?

....

Read all of my posts in UMR Does GWIII XBR & WE.

Buy a JVC D-VHS player and a copy of DVE for 720p. Buy a copy of Avia. Buy a copy of the service manual for this TV. Contact Sony for a copy of the service data. Buy the light meter recommended in the GWIII thread.

Use the information in the previous thread and the equipment I suggested to calibrate your TV properly.

hdiesel1977 - thanks for the pic. Your stand and TV combo looks good to me! :)

Tomorrow it's time to head to Sears and play "Let's Make A Deal".

Glad to hear it papaduxx. Let us know how it looks.

Now what's the friggen hold up on the 60WF's??? Maybe it's a good sign and mine might ship earlier too.

For some reason, the one I pick has to be the last to ship. Ahhh, Crap!

Jeff

My delivery date moved up on my KDF-60XS955, will have it by this sunday...can't wait!

Excellent! Where did you buy if you don't mind me asking.

Best Buy, where i work.

Any news or dates on the 55XS?

i didn't look but i will tomarrow

Anyone have any Idea if sony will be making a 42" or 50" in the WF or XS line? I think the 55" will be to big for my home, But I'm still waiting to see the 55 in person.

i didn't see them in the BB system
i saw
42, 50 WE
55, 60 WF
55, 60 XS

Originally posted by tsloeza
Anyone have any Idea if sony will be making a 42" or 50" in the WF or XS line? I think the 55" will be to big for my home, But I'm still waiting to see the 55 in person.

The 55WF is only about 2-3" wider than the 50WE655. There is more screen crammed in the same amount of cabinet space.

Pappaduxx, are you going to hook up a pc to you xs? I am split between the 60xs and the Mits 62725. I like what I've seen on the Mits VGA connection. I hope the xs can display nice using the hdmi connection.

thanks for the info, Now I just wish 55"WF had to HDMI inputs.:D

Originally posted by radius360
Riffjim,

So, if I understand you correctly, you're splitting the cable signal between the STB (which goes to the UHF/VHF input) and another cable output (which is run into the Cable input)? Have you noticed any strange behavior with the cable run directly into the Cable input? Both 655's that I have had in the last 3 days have not functioned properly when the cable was directly applied to the Cable input. All channel memory is cleared and the unit is stuck on the last channel before power down. Do you see this effect?

I'm beginning to wonder if running my cable directly into the TV is somehow screwing with the tuner. I can't say whether it's intentional or unintentional. All I know is that I have programming that I shouldn't be receiving and I question whether that isn't somehow related to the problems I'm having.

Does anyone have any thoughts? Radius,

I had the 42" KDF for a week or so before exchanging it for the larger 50" KDF - the tuners on both sets worked flawlessly for Cable & OTA, Digital & Analog. For a short while I ran the cable line directly into the "Cable Input" on the set and it worked fine. I then inserting an A/B switch on the cable line:

- Line A runs directly into the "Cable Input" port on the set. Auto Program picked up all analog and digital "in the clear" channels.
- Line B runs into the Cable box (HD DVR), which is hooked up to the set via component cables on "Input 5".
- I have an OTA antenna, which is plugged into the "UHF/VHF" port on the set. Auto Program picked up all RF analog and digital channels in the range of 2-69.

Hmmm. I don't know if anyone is splitting their cable and running it to both the "Cable" and "UHF/VHF" inputs without going through an intermediate device (cable box, VHS), but if do....DON'T! Keep Cable on the Cable port and OTA on the UHF/VHF port. The cable output on an intermediate device will be RF channel 3 in most cases. Check page #41 on the KDF owner's manual.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong:

- The "Cable Input" has a QAM tuner and will decoded QAM-64/QAM-256, both analog and digital.
- The "UHF/VHF Input" has a ATSC/NTSC tuner and will decode RF 2-69, both analog and digital.

I am not sure what would happen if you split a cable line, ran it directly to both the Cable and UHF/VHF inputs, and then ran the Auto Program on both the "Cable" and UHF/VHF" inputs. Offhand, it seems like it may lead to unpredictable results. Anyway, I'm just speculating as to what may be the root cause of your tuner problems.:confused:

Riffjim,

I've been running a single line into the Cable input all along. As a trouble shooting measure, the Sony Engineer suggested that I split the cable line into each input (Cable and UHF/VHF) and run the Auto Program for each. That way, we can see if the UHF input experiences the same channel memory problem that I'm seeing on the Cable input.

Running cable into UHF only limits the number of available channels. You could do it for PIP if you wanted.

So, long story short, the programmed UHF input works fine with cable...no loss of channels. The Cable input on the other hand is still screwed up. It won't hold channels worth a "you know what".

As an experiment, I ran the Auto Program again on the Cable input, surfed some TV and then removed the cable signal from the Cable input. Guess what, the channel memory still failed! So I think I can cross out my cable signal as the culprit (which didn't make sense to me anyway). I don't think my cable company is sending anything malicious down the lines.

At this point, I am inclined to believe that the QAM tuner is the culprit. Everything so far points in it's direction. The guys at the factory can't repeat what I'm experiencing on any of their TVs and short of visiting my house, they confirm that I have configured everything correctly.

So, as highly unlikely as it may sound, I exchanged my defective TV for another defective TV. Intuition tells me that there are probably more units out there with this problem but that it is masked by the fact that most people tend to use the Channel Fix mode with a cable box input. But that's just my opinion.

Thanks for you input...I do appreciate it!

Originally posted by riffjim4069


I am not sure what would happen if you split a cable line, ran it directly to both the Cable and UHF/VHF inputs, and then ran the Auto Program on both the "Cable" and UHF/VHF" inputs. Offhand, it seems like it may lead to unpredictable results. Anyway, I'm just speculating as to what may be the root cause of your tuner problems.:confused:

Nothing really. I am doing this now and is seem to work fine. Only thing is when I switch to the antenna feed with the remote, I only get analog channels and not digital channels. I was able finally able to locate my local fox digital station via my cable company so I'm still on the fence about getting an OTA antenna. Would come in handy since i don't receive digital tbs, abc or pbs via cable.

darwin316,

How is your view angle on that set and how much did you pay for it? I was looking at that set and thought that it was a tad bit high so I kept the tech craft stand. But I could really use the extra shelf space of that zline stand. [/B]

The stand is about 24" in height, so it's about 4" higher than most stands. My viewing height is about 4" from the center of the screen, which I dont mind at all. There is no difference in brightness from the center of the screen to my viewing height. I love this stand since it gives me a lot of shelves space for future use plus it matches my other AV furniture too.

Radius360,

That odd how both of your sets had trouble and both of mine worked as advertised. Perhaps they had a bad batch of tuners, memory or whatever? I don't recall if you returned the 2nd set, but I would suggest asking Sony to dispatch one of their senior technicians to troubleshoot your problem if you still have it.

Originally posted by riffjim4069
Radius360,

That odd how both of your sets had trouble and both of mine worked as advertised. Perhaps they had a bad batch of tuners, memory or whatever? I don't recall if you returned the 2nd set, but I would suggest asking Sony to dispatch one of their senior technicians to troubleshoot your problem if you still have it.
Riffjim,

Well, I still have the second set. I decided to be a little patient and let the engineers at Sony have a crack at this. So far, they haven't been able to repeat it.

I agree, I'm about ready to request that they send one of their field techs out to my place to experience the problem first hand.

I'm really bummed because I want to like this TV so much, but my faith in Sony right now is on the downward spiral. I'm about ready to return the TV and go with something else. I'll give Sony a few more days to figure something out.

Are u guys using avia and dve to calibrate with dvd player and use those settings to hdtv/sdtv input? hdmi?

Hey guys. Got my 55WF655 last Thursday, and I'm loving every minute of it. I haven't had much chance to play around with the settings though.

UMR, has there been any progress on the tweaking front? I remember you saying that Sony was going to give you the codes, but haven't heard anything about it since then. Thanks.

Does anyone know where I can see a 55WF655 in the Pittsburgh area?

Thanks!

Alan

Originally posted by Professor Gascan
...UMR, has there been any progress on the tweaking front? I remember you saying that Sony was going to give you the codes, but haven't heard anything about it since then. Thanks.

I have the codes. All 400+ pages of them. All I need now is a guinea pig who is willing to pay me to do his set that lives near me. I have little interest in doing more of these for free.

$400 and about 6 or 8 hours should do the trick.

UMR, if only you lived in the DC area then I would definitely pay you to have TV calibrated. But since you're not, can you tell me where i can buy the service manual plus codes for the 55WF655? Thanks...

Originally posted by darwin316
UMR, if only you lived in the DC area then I would definitely pay you to have TV calibrated. But since you're not, can you tell me where i can buy the service manual plus codes for the 55WF655? Thanks...

Sony

Originally posted by umr
Sony

short but simple :D

Do you have to be a certified technician to buy this or will they let anybody buy the service manual?

umr,

I'm waiting for delivery of a 60WF. I live in the DFW area. Is that too far? Would you charge me for travel?

Jeff

Originally posted by darwin316
short but simple :D

Do you have to be a certified technician to buy this or will they let anybody buy the service manual?

You don't need to be a tech to get the service manual. I've sent you a PM. ;)

Originally posted by fretbored03
You don't need to be a tech to get the service manual. I've sent you a PM. ;)


i got ur PM. thanks! I pm'd you back as well.

Originally posted by fretbored03
You don't need to be a tech to get the service manual. I've sent you a PM. ;)

fretbored03,

Can you PM me with the information on getting the service manual too? Thanks in advance

Originally posted by zoro
Are u guys using avia and dve to calibrate with dvd player and use those settings to hdtv/sdtv input? hdmi?

I was wondering the same thing since the inputs are independent. I'll try it out once I recieve my DVE disc.

I would totally pay. You aren't planning any trips to Canada are you? ;o)

So, do the GWIV owners set up a slushfund to get a UMR calibration? I'm in.

Originally posted by alanpgh
Does anyone know where I can see a 55WF655 in the Pittsburgh area?

Thanks!

Alan

alan-

I was gonna ask YOU that! A few weeks ago I was at the Century III Best Buy and they gave me early and mid Oct dates for the WF's and XS's....if they really understood what I was asking about. I was going off of memory w/the model #'s when I had them look it up in their system. It's too far of a drive for me to keep physically going there all the time. Coming from the North Central WV area. PM me when you see a WF or XS (55") in the Pitt area. Thanks.

Originally posted by Professor Gascan
I would totally pay. You aren't planning any trips to Canada are you? ;o)

So, do the GWIV owners set up a slushfund to get a UMR calibration? I'm in.

I'll donate to the "UMR does GWIV" Fund.

Originally posted by darwin316
I'll donate to the "UMR does GWIV" Fund.

As would I.

Originally posted by darwin316
I'll donate to the "UMR does GWIV" Fund.

I'm in, too! It'd be great to have some "super-tweaks" for this set! I just took deliver of my 55WF655 yesterday and love it. Looks great ootb, but I'd love to know how to get into the service menu and tweak it to perfection.

UMR, once you find a local ginnie pig, you should set up a pay-pal. I'd be willing to chip in a little $$ to get some serious improvement.

Originally posted by JeffZX9R
umr,

I'm waiting for delivery of a 60WF. I live in the DFW area. Is that too far? Would you charge me for travel?

Jeff

Yep, way too far.

I too would pay if the XS model is included.

count me in.

I think it's pretty clear that people would be willing to pay for the tweaks to get done. I'm pretty envious of the results people are having with the GWIII tweaks (not that I've seen them, but public response is 100% positive from what I've seen). Now we need a guinea in UMR's area and UMR's approval of course.

Professor Gascan,

There is not 100% agreement, but there are more people happy than not.

Here is an example of the difference with low resolution photos, but it is typical.

My GWII

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=4492824&fullpage=1

An untweaked GWIV

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=4492653&fullpage=1

Is that Kentucky Bluegrass in the second picture? :D

Okay, let's at least be sure if we're comparing apples to apples --

umr's picture was taken with a brand new $1500 8mp Canon SLR camera -- what was hdiesel's photo taken with, and what in camera settings were used? Obviously this would be important in any real comparison...
:rolleyes:

Some photoshop tweaking would make it tough to tell the difference between the two...

I think the tweaked pic is too dark. Is there an in-between tweak or a way to make it less dark? I think I'd rather have the un-tweaked set.

Kid, my point exactly -- you're looking digital photographs of a TV picture, which isn't an accurate representation of how the TV would look if you stood in front of it. Even the difference between my monitor and your monitor can make one photo look more or less pleasing.

No camera has the range to capture this TV properly. All photos of the TV of a picture with the full contrast ratio will either crush whites or blacks. I chose to crush blacks in my photo. The other crushes whites. I know all about camera differences, but the differences between TV setups are real as well.

I guess I'll leave you GWIV guys on your own. Good luck deciphering about 500 pages of service manual info.

I personally would rather have the tweaked set. The colour is much more realistic, and the detail levels are better. I don't believe that difference between the two is down to cameras.

Originally posted by umr
No camera has the range to capture this TV properly. All photos of the TV of a picture with the full contrast ratio will either crush whites or blacks. I chose to crush blacks in my photo. The other crushes whites. I know all about camera differences, but the differences between TV setups are real as well.

umr, you're the one who chose to use two dissimilar photographs to support your position about the differences between the tweaked version of one TV vs. the untweaked version of another model of TV.

I don't doubt that the adjustments will in fact improve the picture on just about any TV. My post was just to question your choice of exhibits.

I guess I'll leave you GWIV guys on your own. Good luck deciphering about 500 pages of service manual info.

I'm not sure where this comment fits into the discussion, but okay.

Originally posted by jpm121
umr, you're the one who chose to use two dissimilar photographs to support your position about the differences between the tweaked version of one TV vs. the untweaked version of another model of TV.

I don't doubt that the adjustments will in fact improve the picture on just about any TV. My post was just to question your choice of exhibits.



I'm not sure where this comment fits into the discussion, but okay.

I chose the only photos I had available. I have not tweaked a GWIV. The photo someone else posted of his GWIV is pretty typical of what an untweaked set can look like. I recently calibrated a Mits DLP that looked similar to the GWIV photo I posted before and closer to my GWII when I finished. Whether you believe it or not does not alter the facts of the situation.

My point is I was offering my help as a favor. I am rescinding it because it is apparently unwelcome and I really have no interest in these sets personally.

Originally posted by jpm121
umr, you're the one who chose to use two dissimilar photographs to support your position about the differences between the tweaked version of one TV vs. the untweaked version of another model of TV.

I don't doubt that the adjustments will in fact improve the picture on just about any TV. My post was just to question your choice of exhibits.

I'm not sure where this comment fits into the discussion, but okay.

Do you have a GWIV television? Are you interested in buying one? Because if you are you should know that UMR's tweaks are the best around here, and really the only hope we have for the do it yourselfer. So don't screw it up for the rest of us!!!

I for one would really like UMR tweaks for this television, any chance we can change your mind?

Originally posted by Professor Gascan
...I for one would really like UMR tweaks for this television, any chance we can change your mind?

I doubt it.

Now only if that SXRD would hit the streets.

Originally posted by umr
I doubt it.

Now only if that SXRD would hit the streets.

What are my chances of getting the service manual, and using that do attempt to apply your GWIII tweaks to the GWIV? Keep in mind I've never tweaked a television in my life.

Originally posted by Professor Gascan
Do you have a GWIV television? Are you interested in buying one? Because if you are you should know that UMR's tweaks are the best around here, and really the only hope we have for the do it yourselfer. So don't screw it up for the rest of us!!!

1. Not yet, pre-ordered 60XS955.
2. See #1

I've read umr's other tweak threads and was impressed -- no question the guy knows his stuff. I'm not sure why he's threatening to abandon the lowly unwashed masses and re-ascending to his holy shrine, but I'm sure life will go on one way or the other.

Besides, he's already mentioned in this thread (or a similar one) that he has no interest in the XS line. I'm not sure if you're looking for ego stroking or something to change his mind, but he's a grown man with an obviously fulfilling life (at least he has some really nice toys!) and I'm sure he'll get over it.

Originally posted by umr
I chose the only photos I had available. I have not tweaked a GWIV. The photo someone else posted of his GWIV is pretty typical of what an untweaked set can look like. I recently calibrated a Mits DLP that looked similar to the GWIV photo I posted before and closer to my GWII when I finished. Whether you believe it or not does not alter the facts of the situation.

My point is I was offering my help as a favor. I am rescinding it because it is apparently unwelcome and I really have no interest in these sets personally.

UMR, I think those of us who actually own a GWIV would really appreciate any help you could offer, so that we can bring our sets up to or close to an "UMR does GWIII" pic. We've all read the postings form the numerous GWIII owners who have been blow away by their sets pic after applying the tweaks in your guide and many of us have even offered to chip in and pay you to take a shot at replicating your findings for the IV series.

Hopefully a few guys nitpicking the pictures you used, and ignoring the point, won't ruin this for the rest of us. There are quite a few of us on this forum who value your expertise when it comes to correctly HT in general and especially setting up a TV.

Let us know if you change your mind... even if paypal is involved:D

Originally posted by Professor Gascan
What are my chances of getting the service manual, and using that do attempt to apply your GWIII tweaks to the GWIV? Keep in mind I've never tweaked a television in my life.

You should have no problem getting the service manual from Sony. Tweaking your TV is a more difficult call. I would suggest you subscribe to the Home Theater Spot and use the tweaks posted there. They used to be pretty good when they were free. I have not used them since they started charging and claimed they were copyrighted. I have no idea what they have available for the GWIV.

An accurate job will require a Kodak Gray Card and a quality light meter.

I would download the GWII and GWIII tweaks that I have posted as a starting spot to see if you think you have a chance of developing these things yourself.

I for one would really like UMR tweaks for this television, any chance we can change your mind?

Me too!

I doubt it.

Oh no, I was basing my decision to get the 60xs on the hopes to have UMR's tweaks.:eek: I thought that paypal account thing sounded good, I would donate. I also appreciate all the quesitons you've answered on this board. Your opinion/advice is very much appreciated by me.

Originally posted by umr
I doubt it.

Now only if that SXRD would hit the streets.

umr: Please don't let a couple of guy's comments make you rescind your offer to help us with tweaking the GWIV sets. I'm sure by this time tomorrow there will be about 50 posts asking you to reinstate your offer. We will eventually find someone in your area to be the gineau pig....

This whole paypal idea was tossed around for the GWIII. I did not like it because I could not guarantee it would hit any amount. I did the GWIII out of my own curiosity and to help out others on the forum. I asked for nothing for my effort. I would feel bad about not coming through when people had paid if the contributions were a waste of my time. I would feel obligated to do the tweaks once I took a dime of someones money. I just think I'll pass this time around.

Originally posted by umr
No camera has the range to capture this TV properly. All photos of the TV of a picture with the full contrast ratio will either crush whites or blacks. I chose to crush blacks in my photo. The other crushes whites. I know all about camera differences, but the differences between TV setups are real as well.

I guess I'll leave you GWIV guys on your own. Good luck deciphering about 500 pages of service manual info.

I hope my comments didn't lead to your irritation. I was merely saying that i thought the tweaked set looked a little darker then I would personally like. I then asked if your tweak can be brought down or tweaked a tad less, kinda an in-between of the tweaked and un-tweaked sets. I did not intend for my observation to affect the odds of you tweaking newer sets. Nor did I mean to degrade your time, effort and expertise. I was simply wondering if there was a middle ground to the tweak. I greatly value your knowledge and considered buying the Sony for the simple reason you have the tweaks available. I also have backed off the JVC since your comments. I would feel much better buying a set you spoke highly of (and I could afford) and if you had a public tweak for.

Originally posted by umr
This whole paypal idea was tossed around for the GWIII. I did not like it because I could not guarantee it would hit any amount. I did the GWIII out of my own curiosity and to help out others on the forum. I asked for nothing for my effort. I would feel bad about not coming through when people had paid if the contributions were a waste of my time. I would feel obligated to do the tweaks once I took a dime of someones money. I just think I'll pass this time around.

Hey UMR, I just proposed the paypal idea because you'd thrown out the ~$400 amount for you to spend the 4-8 hours necessary to tweak this set. I think it's a sign of trust in your abilities that a number of ACTUAL GWIV owners immediately jumped in and offered to chip in. I think you could easily get the 20 or so people necessary to front $20 bucks each the initial $400, and then what the hell, if it turns out as good as the GWIIIs did you could probably sell the tweaks at $20 a pop thereafter. Worse comes to worse, some of us pay $20 to have you e-mail/PM us some decent picture settings but it doesn't live up to the GWIII tweaks, but if all works out then we get a picture-perfect set, you can make some spare $$ and are that much closer to the SXRD :) ..... just an idea.

Either way, if you'd do it for a fee or help us out for free, I think a lot of us would appreciate your insight and assistance with these new and potentially fabulous Sony TVs.

Originally posted by nixima
umr: Please don't let a couple of guy's comments make you rescind your offer to help us with tweaking the GWIV sets. I'm sure by this time tomorrow there will be about 50 posts asking you to reinstate your offer. We will eventually find someone in your area to be the gineau pig....

I see no reason to go out of my way on this. Spending hours of my time and risking damage to my equipment moving it around for a bunch of ungrateful people. I was going to do this as a favor for the GWIV crowd. Implying that I was gaming the photos is a joke. The two examples posted are reasonable comparisons. I try to be as honest as I can about things whether it is favorable or not. I hope one of the GWIV owners steps up and does a credible job with tweaking one of these and posts the results. I doubt it will be me.

Originally posted by jpm121
Okay, let's at least be sure if we're comparing apples to apples --

umr's picture was taken with a brand new $1500 8mp Canon SLR camera -- what was hdiesel's photo taken with, and what in camera settings were used? Obviously this would be important in any real comparison...
:rolleyes:

Some photoshop tweaking would make it tough to tell the difference between the two...


I have a canon Sd100. It is actually the japanese version and i have been too lazy to get the american manual from the website. I took some higher res pictures but they were to big for avs so i had to lower the res.

Originally posted by mklaessy
...Either way, if you'd do it for a fee or help us out for free, I think a lot of us would appreciate your insight and assistance with these new and potentially fabulous Sony TVs.

The end result is not guaranteed to be positive. I have no idea how these sets will perform or if service menu tweaking is even necessary at this time.

Originally posted by umr
The end result is not guaranteed to be positive. I have no idea how these sets will perform or if service menu tweaking is even necessary at this time.

I think most of us would be willing to roll the dice. Think about it...

I want to buy a GWIV. I want it tweaked to the max. It is worth money to me. I will give $100 right here and now to start the fund. If you want, we could open a new paypal account and give everyone who contibutes the password so we can all see that no one is ripping off the money. We need 29 more people who value the picture quality on their GWIV enough to pay $100 and then send UMR the $3000. He can then mail order a 42" or 50" model, tweak it and let us know what the codes are. If it cannot be made better, I could care less. His helping those with GWIIs and GWIIIs will be rewarded. If it makes 5% better picture....horay! the same kind of difference it made on the GWII-III well then super duper horay! How much would you pay to have someone come over to your house and calibrate it for you?????? I want to see what is possible with this new set. I am willing to take the $100 risk. UMR could then keep his new GWIV or sell it. I could care less what he does with it. He deserves it! So, let's do it!

Wow, what a day in the GWIV thread!!

umr, I totally understand your point of view, if you are not really interested in doing the tweaks it's hard to justify putting the time into it. And once you get into a for-hire situation you have to worry about whether people will be happy having paid for the results.

I got really excited in looking through your tweak threads and it's one of the reasons I went with GWIV. I would happily pitch into a slush fund to pay for your time, and if the contribution were 20 or 30 bucks I would not even care if the outcome was that the tweaks aren't really effective.

But I understand not wanting to get involved in the whole thing from your point of view. Personaly I just want to thank you for your contributions to the forum. Maybe the rest of us can figure it out together, and maybe not. I am sure that alot of us are at least going to poke around and see what can be done with these new sets.

marcelval,

Thanks for the complements. The whole for-hire thing is messy. Heck I have people accusing me of gaming things when it is just for fun. I don't normally get upset about it. But, I was offering to help with the GWIV when it was of no interest to me just to help a few fellow enthusiasts. I was hoping to get excitement over the photos of what is possible. Instead I got criticism. People should show a little more respect. But, I guess that is too much to ask for.

I hope everyone on here are nice to our troops. People like my son and nephews who are willing to put their lives on the line for us deserve it more than me. My nephew manning his 50 cal in Sadir City deserves all of our respect.

I really wish you guys well, but the service data in this set is a huge thing. It took me probably 100 hours over about a years time to figure out the key parameters in the GWII. Getting it all perfect in the GWIV would take even longer if you are thorough. The service data matrix for the GWII is about 30 pages and the GWIV is over 400. I should never have asked for the $400, but I wanted someone who was serious. The money was not the issue, but the time and effort were going to be.

umr, my best wishes to your son and nephew. Political viewpoints aside I feel for everyone over there, and specially for the families of those who won't return.

I thought the difference in the photos was pretty impressive and even taking into consideration matters of camera, monitors etc, I think it shows what a good calibration can do, and how great these sets can look. having grown up in Boston I was a bit miffed at the images the TV's were showing, but that's a different matter all together.

I am stunned that the complexity of the service menu has grown that much in only 2 generations. I guess overall it would bode well in the sense of more menu items means more control over the set. This is all something new for me, but I will try to educate myself as best I can, and as time allows try to see if I can do at least some tweaking.

Is it true that the names of entries have been changed, or do you think at least some of your previous tweaks will still apply?

Originally posted by marcelval
....Is it true that the names of entries have been changed, or do you think at least some of your previous tweaks will still apply?

It looks like things are pretty similar in the manual. One owner posted differently. It may be that the access is a little different. Hard to tell without actually touching one.

Originally posted by umr
It looks like things are pretty similar in the manual.

That's about what I would expect. I guess I'll see for myself when my WF finally arrives...

wow...drama aside, I would still appreciate umr's input on tweaking the GWIV since he has proven his worth and skills on the previous gens. I entered the service menu on my set and was not able to recognize any settings that were similar to the GWIII....maybe i just dont know what i'm doing tho =)

Check this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4424126#post4424126) for details on the GWIV service menu. It is completely different from the GWIII...none of UMR's categories exist in the new service menu. I haven't made any changes in the service menu but many of the categories look like they deal with the audio and geometry.

Hey all I've been lurking for a while on these forums, and the last couple days have narrowed down my choices of large screen tv's to either

the JVC D-ILA or a GWIV TV. Will be purchasing whe I move into our new hosue we bought. I wouldn't have bothered to post, but UMR changed my mind. Looking at those two pics that compared a tweaked gwiii and non tweaked gwiv, Almost every aspect about the tweaked set is better, just look at the text for one, so much clearer on the tweaked set. Now I will say that some of that may be attributed to the difference in camera, but the camera's impact on these pictures would be minimal.

And there are obviously many users of this forum who have GWIII that swoon over UMR's tweaked settings of the GWIII. If I do end up going with the GWIV I really hope to find posts by UMR that indicates what needs to be altered in order to get the most out of my new set.

Cheers

Originally posted by TH3_FRB
Check this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4424126#post4424126) for details on the GWIV service menu. It is completely different from the GWIII...none of UMR's categories exist in the new service menu. I haven't made any changes in the service menu but many of the categories look like they deal with the audio and geometry.

I saw your post and it may be correct, but it is in disagreement with the service manuals. These are the categories in the manual. The order is scrambled in this list.

VERSION0
CCPS-7
MID4
CCPM-1
CCPS-8
MID5
CCPM-2
CCPS-10
CCPM-3
DCP-INT
AK4524
DLBY
CCPM-4
DCP-OSD
MID1
CCPM-5
D9671TPN CCPS-5
MID2
CCPM-6
D9671TG1
CCPS-6
MID3
CCPM-7
D9671CUR
D9671TG2
D9671-1
CCD
D9671PIC
DCP-ADJ2
DCP-USER
DCP-AVP
USR-NR
CXA2171
DCP-BLK
DCP-ADJ1
AP
CCPM-8
CCPM-9
CCPM-10
CH-SET
CCPS-1
CCPS-2
CCPS-3
CCPS-4
SNSS
DRCVR
MID6
MID7
MID8
MID9
SNNR
D9671CSC
A7001R
OSD-E
A7001G
A7001B
SH SET
H POS SHI
TEMP
OPTION-E
OPTION-E
FAN-CTL
GB RGB
ID

I'm truly sad that you've decided not to take a stab at tweaking the GWIV, but I totally understand where you're coming from. Hopefully the community here can figure out a way to get our GWIVs looking somewhere as good as your GWII does. If you ever change your mind, I know myself and many, many current and future GWIV would appreciate it greatly.

KDF42WE655 HELP, please
I have a problem surfing up and down with the channel button--on the remote as well as on the side of the tv. I can directly dial a channel by punching in its number but cannot step up or down once I directly dialed a channel.
My set-up: running cable straight into my apt., then splitting signal with one side going straight into tv (i.e. analog signal) and the other side going to the digital Motorola cable box which provides me my hi-def signal (plus any other available station in digital format). Of course, the component connection coming from the cablebox and going into video 5 can only be dialed with the cable remote (and, by the way, surfing with the cable remote in video 5 (i.e. digital signal) is possible. But on the other, analog side, I should be able to surf up and down with the Sony remote or tv's side channel button, particularly since I can directly dial any channel with the remote.
What's my problem? Did I forget something in initial set-up? Do I have to punch a button on the remote--however, don't forget, I cannot surf with the tv's side channel button either.

Help would be appreciated.
Wolfi

I checked my service menu (55WF655) and it has the same categories as TH3_FRB listed in the other thread. I guess the best place to start will be to get the service manual and try to find some corelation between the old menus and new ones.

It looks like Sony may have dropped the 3D Comb filter in these sets. Note the 2D Comb filter category the schematics and block diagrams also show a 2D Comb filter. I also find no mention of 3D comb filter in the user manual. The specs mention it on Sony Style, but that could be a mistake.

Have you guys tried the Jump button. This set seems to have layers of service menus that are accessed with Jump.

Someone stated earlier there is a signal strength meter for the GWIV, possibly for the ANT. Could anyone tell me how to get to this setting as I need to tune my ANT and watching channels fade in and out isn't fun.

Thanks,
Vanelin

Originally posted by vanelin
Someone stated earlier there is a signal strength meter for the GWIV, possibly for the ANT. Could anyone tell me how to get to this setting as I need to tune my ANT and watching channels fade in and out isn't fun.

Thanks,
Vanelin

You can only check the signal strenght if you can tune into a digital channel...that would be the only time the diagnostic button will be available. I believe the diagnostic button is located at the menu selection.

Originally posted by wolfi
KDF42WE655 HELP, please
I have a problem surfing up and down with the channel button--on the remote as well as on the side of the tv. I can directly dial a channel by punching in its number but cannot step up or down once I directly dialed a channel.
My set-up: running cable straight into my apt., then splitting signal with one side going straight into tv (i.e. analog signal) and the other side going to the digital Motorola cable box which provides me my hi-def signal (plus any other available station in digital format). Of course, the component connection coming from the cablebox and going into video 5 can only be dialed with the cable remote (and, by the way, surfing with the cable remote in video 5 (i.e. digital signal) is possible. But on the other, analog side, I should be able to surf up and down with the Sony remote or tv's side channel button, particularly since I can directly dial any channel with the remote.
What's my problem? Did I forget something in initial set-up? Do I have to punch a button on the remote--however, don't forget, I cannot surf with the tv's side channel button either.

Help would be appreciated.
Wolfi

Check your "channel fix" to see if it's on. Also, do you have the cable going to the cable input or UHF input. I would suggest connecting it to the cable input and do the channel search again. I am receiving HD content without a cable box.

Originally posted by wolfi
KDF42WE655 HELP, please
I have a problem surfing up and down with the channel button--on the remote as well as on the side of the tv. I can directly dial a channel by punching in its number but cannot step up or down once I directly dialed a channel.
My set-up: running cable straight into my apt., then splitting signal with one side going straight into tv (i.e. analog signal) and the other side going to the digital Motorola cable box which provides me my hi-def signal (plus any other available station in digital format). Of course, the component connection coming from the cablebox and going into video 5 can only be dialed with the cable remote (and, by the way, surfing with the cable remote in video 5 (i.e. digital signal) is possible. But on the other, analog side, I should be able to surf up and down with the Sony remote or tv's side channel button, particularly since I can directly dial any channel with the remote.
What's my problem? Did I forget something in initial set-up? Do I have to punch a button on the remote--however, don't forget, I cannot surf with the tv's side channel button either.

Help would be appreciated.
Wolfi

Wolfi,

That's the same exact problem I've been talking about all week! Check out my earlier posts. I'm on my second GWIV right now (returned the first) and I'm still seeing the problem!

Just to let you know, I've been in daily contact with the engineers at the Sony plant (in PA) where these sets are produced. As of yet, they still haven't been able to repeat the problem, but they believe me when I say that there IS a problem. The setup is just way too simple...cable in to the Cable input, Auto Program the TV, watch TV and channel surf, shut off TV and all memory of programmed channels is lost except for the last channel before power down (but you can manually key in a channel number).

The engineers are working on this and hope to have an answer for me soon. We are narrowing the problem part down. So far, I think we can cross the channel memory EE off as the culprit because of a test that they had me run last night. Right now, I'm leaning towards the tuner.

Wolfi, PLEASE PM YOUR CONTACT INFORMATION TO ME IMMEDIATELY and I will pass it along to the guys at Sony. I'm sure that they will want to speak with you. They watching the roll out of these sets VERY closely and any hiccups right now seem to get them rolling into action. I will say this, so far they have been really responsive which is the only thing right now that is keeping me from returning the TV.

Originally posted by umr
Have you guys tried the Jump button. This set seems to have layers of service menus that are accessed with Jump.

Nope, I sure didn't try that out. I just got to work, so it'll be a solid 8-9 hours before I can try this out, but I will as soon as I get home. :)

Very interesting...I'll try it tonight and report back.

Originally posted by umr
Have you guys tried the Jump button. This set seems to have layers of service menus that are accessed with Jump.

Originally posted by umr
It looks like Sony may have dropped the 3D Comb filter in these sets. Note the 2D Comb filter category the schematics and block diagrams also show a 2D Comb filter. I also find no mention of 3D comb filter in the user manual. The specs mention it on Sony Style, but that could be a mistake.

Can you explain to us the difference and why this would be important (or point us to a post that does)?

These links do a decent job explaining the benefit and detriments of 3D Comb filtering.

http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/vidcomb.htm#CombAdapt2

http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/vidcomb.htm#CombAdapt3

Different question now.

I have a Sony RDR-GX7 which plays in 480p, then is scaled to 788p by the TV. Will I notice an improvement getting Sony's new 975v HDMI DVD player (which is on Sony.com now), which seems to be native 720p with a 1080i scaler? If I did get one, would it be better to connect through the HDMI or continue with component?

Originally posted by umr
Have you guys tried the Jump button. This set seems to have layers of service menus that are accessed with Jump.

Once again, UMR is right on the money. I used the jump button to change levels in the service menu, and now the categories and items that were used in the GWIII tweaks are there. So, the million dollar question is do I apply the tweaks done to the GWIII to my GWIV?

Originally posted by Professor Gascan
Once again, UMR is right on the money. I used the jump button to change levels in the service menu, and now the categories and items that were used in the GWIII tweaks are there. So, the million dollar question is do I apply the tweaks done to the GWIII to my GWIV?

I would see no reason not to try. The risk is yours of course. It will be interesting to see if they have changed many of the defaults and if the correct values will be the same. You should use test patterns for all inputs if you are going to attempt this.

Oh yee of little faith. I told you it looked similar.

Originally posted by umr
Oh yee of little faith. I told you it looked similar.

Hehe. I was excited the whole day to try it out. Two questions: 1. Is there anyway to reset the entire television to factory default if I do the changes? 2. Do you think they're neccessary judging from the picture you posted earlier?

I missed your post up above. ;) I'm new to tweaking, so by test patterns you mean something like Avia would provide?

Originally posted by Professor Gascan
Once again, UMR is right on the money. I used the jump button to change levels in the service menu, and now the categories and items that were used in the GWIII tweaks are there. So, the million dollar question is do I apply the tweaks done to the GWIII to my GWIV?

And don't forget to write down ALL your settings before you do anything else. It's the only way to recover if you accidentally modify the wrong parameter, or fat-finger the buttons on the remote.

umr/anyone else

Do you have an opinion/assessment of what the major differences are between the XS and the XBR?

Just hooked up my New SONY 60XS....wow it looks good...

still checking it out more though

Papadux:

Where did you get it from?

Best Buy

Originally posted by mmulligan
Ok, here are my impressions of my 42GWIV. As to whether the picture is better than a III I can not comment other than to say that HD is great on IV and SD and analog are better than on my sony 27". The advanagtes of the IV that I have found thus far it is slimmer 15 in and the built in tuner has been a plus for me. I live in Annapolis Md, and comcast designates this as a Baltimore area and only puts local Baltimore Hd channels on its lineup. But I was surprised when I hooked my cable line directly into GWIV and had it do the automatic channel search to discover all the washington DC local Hd channels available, located at 122.1 and up. These channels did not appear using my STB from comcast. I am using cable in port for most analog, SD, and Hd viewing. The stb box is hooked up via component to Video 5 and is used to view encrypted channels and on demand function from comcast. Video 6 is connected to my DVD via component and plays DVD exceptionally. I have the GWIV sitting on a bush stand with a swivel base in my narrow room in my condo, sit 8 ft from screen and have not experienced any screen door effects or bad pixels. On my limited viewing thus far I have been happy with black details and have not noticied any blurring doing sporting events. I also enjoy the twin view feature which has allowed me to watch college football and yankee-redsox game at the same time, but digital picture can only be played to the left panel. the gw111 which i have is 14 inches deep--the IV is 15 and is 20 lbs heavier---the IV has cable card capability--but be aware its only ONE way--IN not out-that means pay per view and on demand is out-you cant communicate with them as you can with the box-the IV has silver border--not black--it makesthe picture look smaller over the GW111-to ME the IV is a step DOWN from the 111--NOT up--othwerwise its the same tv--IMHO

Just hooked up my New SONY 60XS....wow it looks good...

You won't be posting any pictures by chance??????

Originally posted by Professor Gascan
I missed your post up above. ;) I'm new to tweaking, so by test patterns you mean something like Avia would provide?

I think that is what he means and if I read his tweaks right, you might even be able to use the THX optimizer patterns as well.

Just hooked up my New SONY 60XS....wow it looks good...

Congratulations, I think you are the first person in the forum to get one.

I'm still waiting for mine...:(

Originally posted by studranger
the gw111 which i have is 14 inches deep--the IV is 15 and is 20 lbs heavier---the IV has cable card capability--but be aware its only ONE way--IN not out-that means pay per view and on demand is out-you cant communicate with them as you can with the box-the IV has silver border--not black--it makesthe picture look smaller over the GW111-to ME the IV is a step DOWN from the 111--NOT up--othwerwise its the same tv--IMHO

I agree with you that the silver border is unattractive. However don't dismiss the cablecard so quickly. It is 1/4 the cost or less of an STB, plus some have said that the Sony built in tuner is better than what you will find in a STB, so your PQ could be better. Even in the worst case you don't lose anything with a built in QAM tuner. It adds to the value of the set because it gives you new options.

You are also getting an off the air tuner, so you can set up an antenna and pull in free broadcast HD. I know taht sounds kind of hokey in this day and age, but some broadcasters are putting out some pretty high quality stuff.

Originally posted by papaduxx
Best Buy

Did you manage to find out when the 55 will be available?

I definitely plan to give it a shot this weekend!

Originally posted by Professor Gascan
Once again, UMR is right on the money. I used the jump button to change levels in the service menu, and now the categories and items that were used in the GWIII tweaks are there. So, the million dollar question is do I apply the tweaks done to the GWIII to my GWIV?

Originally posted by patvr
Do you have an opinion/assessment of what the major differences are between the XS and the XBR?



MODEL 60XS955 60XBR950
Screen Size 60" 60"
Aspect Ratio 16:9 16:9
Comb Filter Type 3D Digital* 3D Digital
Picture in Picture 2 Tuner 2 Tuner
Velocity Scanning Modulation --- No
Color Temperature Control --- Yes
1080i Compatible Yes Yes
720p Compatible Yes Yes
480p Compatible Yes Yes
Remote Multibrand Multibrand
Illuminated Remote --- No
DBS Control --- Yes
XDS Data Service --- Yes
Sleep Timer Yes Yes
V-Chip Yes Yes
Audio Output Power 5 x 2/20 x 1 5 x 2/20 x 1
Surround Modes TruSurround TruSurround
Dolby Decoding None None
High Contrast Protective Screen Yes Yes
Width (inches) 66-3/8 63-1/2
Height (inches) 39-3/4 39-3/4
Depth (inches) 20-3/8 23
Weight 113.5 lbs 173 lbs
Parts Warranty 1 Year 1 Year
Labor Warranty 1 Year 1 Year
Inputs & Outputs
RF Inputs 2 2
Front Panel S-Video In 1 1
Rear Composite Video Inputs 3 3
Rear S-Video Inputs 3 3
Component Video Inputs 2 2
Total Video Inputs 8 7
Total Video Outputs None None
Total Audio Inputs 8 7
Headphone Jack --- None
System Link Control S Control S


* - note that there's some uncertainty about this - umr's service manual says it's a 2d, not 3d comb filter.

EDIT: Just wanted to point out that this list doesn't include the fact that the XS has a cablecard slot and dual HDMI inputs, which makes me not sure where the 8 total inputs comes from... that's what I get for relying on a retailer's website, I suppose... :rolleyes:

JPM121,

Have you seen the 60XS at ABT?

I have seen my cousins 70" XBR and i think that my XS is the same if not better and has a lot more connections. HD is great on this set, SD is better than normal.

DVD looks really good as well as PS2 and Xbox (both through componet)

Originally posted by patvr
umr/anyone else

Do you have an opinion/assessment of what the major differences are between the XS and the XBR?

Here is a link to some of my previous comments about this and some other things.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4371233#post4371233

Originally posted by Professor Gascan
Hehe. I was excited the whole day to try it out. Two questions: 1. Is there anyway to reset the entire television to factory default if I do the changes? 2. Do you think they're neccessary judging from the picture you posted earlier?

I missed your post up above. ;) I'm new to tweaking, so by test patterns you mean something like Avia would provide?

You need to read the UMR Does GWII and UMR Does GWIII tweaks. Following the procedure is not really enough when you are developing them. You need quality sources and good test patterns. This includes composite, S-Video, component 480i/480p/720p/1080i and DVI/HDMI 480i/480p/720p/1080i. A quality light meter is also essential to determine how to set gamma properly. A Kodak gray card is useful to set gray scale with the light meter and color filters. I use my own homemade tristimulus device.

I use Avia, DVE on DVD, DVE on D-VHS (720p version), VE, Microsoft Test Annex, Jim Taylor's DVD Demystified, Star Wars AOTC, Star Wars I and Toy Story II to verify what settings are the best. Anything short of this is not likely to yield optimum results. Plan on many hours to do this right. I would guess somewhere around 30 if this is your first attempt.

Reading the entire UMR Does GWII and UMR Does GWIII threads is probably a good idea as well.

Originally posted by sombra_azul
JPM121,

Have you seen the 60XS at ABT?

No, sombra, it's still not on display there -- stopped by this afternoon. They have some nice discounts on the XBRs though. I expect they're trying to move them out before the SXBRs show up after Christmas.

I noticed that there is one pixel on my XS955 (too anal from this forum) that is either blown or messed up. It looks clear almost like a chip in a glass sheet from one side and black from another. Do i just let it be.....or try to exchange it. I mean i probably will never notice if i don't put my face against it or look really hard.

thanx,

tony

papaduxx

If all you have is one and its only visible when you're very close, I'd let it go. Actually, if its black, it's probably some dust somewhere in the system. For it to be dead pixels, you'd have to have the exact same one bad in each of the three color panels. Very unlikely.

Most if not all LCDs have a few bad pixels. What you want to watch for is when they're some bright ones clustered together that's visible from normal viewing distances.

papaduxx,

Does your set have the glass screen (reflective) :mad: or does it have a matte finish :D ?

Originally posted by xified
papaduxx,

Does your set have the glass screen (reflective) :mad: or does it have a matte finish :D ?


Nope, it does not have a glass screen. It is a non-glare matte type finish.

Originally posted by JimP

If all you have is one and its only visible when you're very close, I'd let it go. Actually, if its black, it's probably some dust somewhere in the system. For it to be dead pixels, you'd have to have the exact same one bad in each of the three color panels. Very unlikely.

Most if not all LCDs have a few bad pixels. What you want to watch for is when they're some bright ones clustered together that's visible from normal viewing distances.

it is sort of bright on one side when you look at it, it kinda resembles a chip in a glass windshield (pretty bright), but from the other side it looks black almost like the grid like structure that separates the pixels is broken on one edge and is in the middle of the pixel.

papaduxx, don't know if you saw my earlier post but I was wondering if you managed to find out when the 55 might be available?
How far away are you sitting? Any SDE or other noticable things?
Any defintate improvements from the WE's/WF's?
Also, any pictures of your new set?

i actually didn't get to see the 55" release date but it should be within a week, i'll check. SDE, I do not see any visible (i'm about 10-12 feet away). The glare coating is slightly visible (very very minimal) but that is only with a completely colored screen (blue screen) and staring about 4 ft away. I think that it has a lot of improvements over the WE such as advance menus, PQ and clarity. The WE is a good looking tv but this is XBR like or better. I have not seen the WF model but know that the only real difference between the WE and the WF is the bezel and lamp adjustments. The xs is a clear winner in my book and i am really happy that i bought this tv.
SD pq is actually enjoyable.
Last night i hooked my XBOX and PS2 both with componet cables and WOW what a picture.
I even ran a cable scan and picked up 6 or 7 HD channels and a bunch of others that i get with Digital cable.
I will try to post pics unfortunatly the camera i have on hand is not good.

papaduxx,

It sounds like you have the same problem with your TV as I did mine. It had what appeared to be more than the size of a dead pixel right in the middle of the screen. Since I bought a warranty on the TV, BB said that I can call a tech out to see what was wrong, but since I was in the 30 day purchase window, I replaced it and now don't have any problems with my new one.

Originally posted by papaduxx
it is sort of bright on one side when you look at it, it kinda resembles a chip in a glass windshield (pretty bright), but from the other side it looks black almost like the grid like structure that separates the pixels is broken on one edge and is in the middle of the pixel. I unfortunately had 3 GWIII's with bad color uniformity problems. Two of the three also had a spot in the upper right corner of each set exactly as you decribe, sort of like a small defect in the grid that is black from the front and brightly lit from an angle. On mine they eventually turned a little darker over time and bacame more black from the angle view as well. I eventually got used to it as it wasn't so bad from viewing distance. If you don't have a bunch of pixels stuck on bright red,blue or green, you might switch to a set with more problems. I am interested to see if Sony did anything to address the color uniformity/ green bleed problem. I had green and blue bleeding from the corners on all very dark scenes, movie credits and in the 4:3 bars. Each set had a different degree of the problem, but all were unacceptable. I can get a good deal on an XS but I am concerned whether this problem still exists. If someone would be good enough to check a new GWIV I would greatly appreciate it. If you go to a blank input with no signal, i.e. video 6, and turn off the house lights you will see green and or blue bleeding from the corners, usually the bottom right, into the black screen. This is usually only noticeable at night, which is when I watch. It also appeared to get worse the longer I had the TV on that day. If anyone could check that would be great, otherwise I might go the Mits 62725 route, but the Tweeter stores in CT won't budge an inch on the price. thanks.

I've had the 42WE655 for about a week now and agree too that owners of HDTVs without a tuner seem to underestimate the benefits of a built-in tuner and cable card. For satellite users I can understand their argument of not needing a built-in tuner, but I think cable users are really missing out on the huge improvements in PQ that Sony's built in tuner has over the cable box. While the digital channels from the STB are not bad, the analog signals from the STB to my WE655 are just plain awful. Sony's built-in tuner just simply does a much better job with the analog signal. I don't know the all the why's but it's apparent Sony spent some time thinking things through.

I suppose if you do a lot of PPV the cable card option may not be desired, but I rarely do PPV. The interactive guide I may miss, but with what the broadcaster's already provide for the built-in tuner's guide is more than enough to tell you what is currently on (more so on the digital channels than the analog). I will likely keep the STB for my upstairs T.V. My main reason...it has the only remote that I found which will work with my 10 year old Zenith's PIP.

-Bryan

Originally posted by ehlarson
I agree with you that the silver border is unattractive. However don't dismiss the cablecard so quickly. It is 1/4 the cost or less of an STB, plus some have said that the Sony built in tuner is better than what you will find in a STB, so your PQ could be better. Even in the worst case you don't lose anything with a built in QAM tuner. It adds to the value of the set because it gives you new options.

You are also getting an off the air tuner, so you can set up an antenna and pull in free broadcast HD. I know taht sounds kind of hokey in this day and age, but some broadcasters are putting out some pretty high quality stuff.

if new XS has matte finish glass, then no way on earth it will look like XBR side to side as glass screen gives it extra punch , sharpness, depth, smoothness to picture, no doubt on cost of glare at 113lbs i knew it cant be glass for sure!

Just to let folks know of an annoyance I found out last night about my 55 WF655.

Only the digital signals (ATSC, digital cable) have the audio stream available at the optical digital output. The analog signals (NTSC OTA and NTSC cable) do not send their audio content to the optical digital output.

I am surprised that they set it up that way. Seems really unfortunate!

Originally posted by zoro
if new XS has matte finish glass, then no way on earth it will look like XBR side to side as glass screen gives it extra punch , sharpness, depth, smoothness to picture, no doubt on cost of glare at 113lbs i knew it cant be glass for sure!

I can assure you i have watched my cousin 70" XBR and it looks exactly the same or better. At first I was a little disappointed but then i made a couple of minor adjustments and wow. The XBR is a great tv but i think this is this years improved XBR renamed XS in order to make way for Sonys New high end 10k tv.

Zoro, weren't you the one who hoped it was not glass due to glare problems?

Originally posted by vanelin
papaduxx,

It sounds like you have the same problem with your TV as I did mine. It had what appeared to be more than the size of a dead pixel right in the middle of the screen. Since I bought a warranty on the TV, BB said that I can call a tech out to see what was wrong, but since I was in the 30 day purchase window, I replaced it and now don't have any problems with my new one.

if it is only one that is not really noticable do you think i should exchange it?? I know it is my decision but i just wanted some feedback or opinions.

thanks

Originally posted by rotty2
If someone would be good enough to check a new GWIV I would greatly appreciate it. If you go to a blank input with no signal, i.e. video 6, and turn off the house lights you will see green and or blue bleeding from the corners, usually the bottom right, into the black screen. This is usually only noticeable at night, which is when I watch. It also appeared to get worse the longer I had the TV on that day. If anyone could check that would be great, otherwise I might go the Mits 62725 route, but the Tweeter stores in CT won't budge an inch on the price. thanks.

I just tried this on three different inputs and there is no sign of what you described. Hope this helps

papaduxx,

I think I'm the one you're thinking of who did NOT want the glare. After reading your posts here, I've called U.E. to see what kind of delivery I can get on the 60XS vs waiting 2 more wks for my 60WF. If they can get me an XS pretty quick, I think it'd be well worth the extra cost. BTW, do you like the looks of the set now that you see it in person. Is it better or worse than pictures. I'm just not sure about those speakers sticking out.

Thanks
Jeff

i love it, the black boarder around the Tv is actually like a black graphite look. Speakers don't bother me, however it appears that there is a possibility that the speakers can come off, i'll look into that. Overall i am extremely happy i bought this. I was a little nervous choosing between the MIts DLP and the XS especially buying it without seeing the pic. Well i'm not nervous anymore, i am extremelty happy and look forward to playing with my new toy.

Yes!! I dont like glare? but I cant deny, what that screen add to the picture!! I used to see my whole house in my CRT! But PQ was glossy! here it is MATT

I am going to try to post some pictures later.

Thanks, would love to see some!

Originally posted by papaduxx
I just tried this on three different inputs and there is no sign of what you described. Hope this helps Thanks for checking, but this is really only noticeable at night when the sun is down. The room needs to be dark with no lights on. It was totally undetectable during the day. It was like owning two different sets. papaduxx, If you get a chance, could you check again tonight? I'm glad to see that there were others battling between the Mits and Sonys. Thanks

papaduxx,

thank you for the reply regarding the screen and all the best to you and your new toy!

I too ordered this baby without first seeing it. My wife thought I totally lost it especially after investing about a year into looking & critiquing other sets/technologies. I was very impressed with Sony's existing LCD products, so I jumped. Delivery from Sears is this Monday.

I will definitely post some pics if there is interest. I'll take some with the delivered settings and then after tweaking it a bit.

-Alex

If any one sees XS955 on display in SFO bay area! Pls report here immediately and PM me too..thnx

Originally posted by umr
You need to read the UMR Does GWII and UMR Does GWIII tweaks. Following the procedure is not really enough when you are developing them. You need quality sources and good test patterns. This includes composite, S-Video, component 480i/480p/720p/1080i and DVI/HDMI 480i/480p/720p/1080i. A quality light meter is also essential to determine how to set gamma properly. A Kodak gray card is useful to set gray scale with the light meter and color filters. I use my own homemade tristimulus device.

I use Avia, DVE on DVD, DVE on D-VHS (720p version), VE, Microsoft Test Annex, Jim Taylor's DVD Demystified, Star Wars AOTC, Star Wars I and Toy Story II to verify what settings are the best. Anything short of this is not likely to yield optimum results. Plan on many hours to do this right. I would guess somewhere around 30 if this is your first attempt.

Reading the entire UMR Does GWII and UMR Does GWIII threads is probably a good idea as well.

umr- offtopic- but you mention you use all those disks to help calibrate. My question maybe you can answer, is that Avia settings are picture 21/brightness 38 and ATOC disk I get picture 39/brightness 22. Which is better, how would you handle that? Somewhere in the middle? (This is for a crt tube)

Speakers don't bother me, however it appears that there is a possibility that the speakers can come off, i'll look into that

I would REALLY appreciate it if you could confirm this. The extra width of the XS is one of the things holding me back. Looking forward to some pics as well!

indeed, it is huge 66-68 inch wide!! I had a 64 inch Elite CRT that was around 60 inch, and looked humungous!

Originally posted by davis03
Just to let folks know of an annoyance I found out last night about my 55 WF655.

Only the digital signals (ATSC, digital cable) have the audio stream available at the optical digital output. The analog signals (NTSC OTA and NTSC cable) do not send their audio content to the optical digital output.

I am surprised that they set it up that way. Seems really unfortunate!

I have found the optical output works on my digital cable, but only for HBO and HBO-HD. On my cable company's system, that's the only channel they send out with Dolby Digital 5.1 signals. None of the other channels are transmitted on our system that way.

So I guess if your cable company is sending a DD5.1 digital signal, the Sony tuner will pass it on thru the optical output.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rotty2
Thanks for checking, but this is really only noticeable at night when the sun is down. The room needs to be dark with no lights on. It was totally undetectable during the day. It was like owning two different sets. papaduxx, If you get a chance, could you check again tonight? I'm glad to see that there were others battling between the Mits and Sonys. Thanks [/QUOTE/]

My tv is actually in my really really dark basement so it is like night time. Like i said i look couldn't see anything but i will definatly look again tonight.

Does anyone have any opinions/recomendation for me on the one (or two but totally differnt spots) out pixel?

I looked over the screen and didn't see anymore just two. One was black and did not occupy the whole pixel square and the other is sort of bright on one side when you look at it, it kinda resembles a chip in a glass windshield (pretty bright), but from the other side it looks black almost like the grid like structure that separates the pixels is broken on one edge and is in the middle of the pixel.


thanks again

OK - So I'm starting to build some real enthusiasm for the XS and my trigger finger's startin' to itch pretty badly. I've already priced around, locally and online and PCMall has the lowest price by far (as has already been mentioned in another thread). Their web page shows no stock so I called up to get some details. The guy tells me that he has -14 available (yes, that's a minus sign) but he's expecting a shipment in on Oct 28th. I ask him about manufacturer's warranty and problems OOTB and he say's that it's fully covered by Sony for 1 year and if there's any problems with the set within 30 days that I can send it back and he'll ship a new one out. He also says (and here's where it gets kind of shady, in my opinion) that he can give me an extra $200 off if I buy today.

Bottom line is that I get kind of queasy when I think of spending that kind of money for something that's really hard to send back from a vendor that I have no experience with. The price is really attractive though. I have to believe that at least a couple of those 14 sales they already have for this set are people on this board - probably in this thread. If so, what convinced you that they are safe to buy from? How reliable is PCMall? I appreciate any feedback that anyone has.

Hello everyone......Did any of you who have the XS get to compare the screen with the Wf or We?..Is it the same material or is it different?Please let me know..thank you

Wow!!

The speakers are removeable, but the front of the case they are in does not appear to be from the service manual.

DAM.... Just talked to my U.E. salesman, and the XS is "special order" 4 - 6 weeks to deliver! My WF is due in 2 weeks. Guess I'll sit tight with that unless I find out from this forum that the XS is that much better to make worth the hassle of changing.

Wish I had the option of a refund, I'd order somewhere else, but mine is a trade situation that's been taking over 2 months. I wasn't even aware of the XS model at the time this all went down or probably would've ordered it instead.

So, I hope you guys love your XS's, but I also hope they're not much better than the WF's;)

This only sounds confusing.... because I'm confused.:confused:

Jeff

bcollins, I sent you a pm!! pls respond to that..thnx

Can someone post pictures of the KDF-50WE655 with the Sony stand? I can't seem to find any on the web. The Ikea stand (Norrebo) I suggested has a low WAF.

Thanks in advance.

I'm not able to post URLs, but if you go to crutchfield.com and search for the SU-GW11, you will see pictures of that combo. They also have pictures of the WF and XS 60s on the SU-GW12

Thanks, spastic - just what I needed.

Originally posted by davis03
Just to let folks know of an annoyance I found out last night about my 55 WF655.

Only the digital signals (ATSC, digital cable) have the audio stream available at the optical digital output. The analog signals (NTSC OTA and NTSC cable) do not send their audio content to the optical digital output.

I am surprised that they set it up that way. Seems really unfortunate!

You answered yor own question.
It's a digital out for digital signals, how are you going to pass analog sound through it?

Originally posted by arkid
You answered yor own question.
It's a digital out for digital signals, how are you going to pass analog sound through it?

Well, to be fair to davis03, most other (not TV's) combination tuners (ATSC / NTSC,) Cable and Satellite converters that have digital audio out will output audio for all sources via the digital out (even if the source is analog.) So general expectations have been set, therefor it can be annoying.

Originally posted by TheMostToyzWins
Well, to be fair to davis03, most other (not TV's) combination tuners (ATSC / NTSC,) Cable and Satellite converters that have digital audio out will output audio for all sources via the digital out (even if the source is analog.) So general expectations have been set, therefor it can be annoying.

Fair enough.
I didn't realise this, I was just going off the logical explanation.
So the other sets convert the analog audio to digital then?

Just got my 42" 655 ...

trying to get my Hughes HD TiVo (10-250) to work the remote .. tried the only ode 804 listed for SAT box.. anybody got it working? Also trying to get my Phillips DVD dvp-642 no luck ther either... ?

Okay.... so where are those XS pictures from you lucky guys???

Originally posted by arkid
So the other sets convert the analog audio to digital then?

Yup, I can't explain how, but my Satellite receiver and my Digital Cable box (yes, I figure, why settle for one when you can have both :-) are both connected to a receiver via digital (optical) connection. The Satellite box has a built in NTSC OTA tuner for local channels. The first 100 channels on the Cable box are analog (without a doubt.) And I get sound for all channels analog and digital from the one optical connection. Including (depending on the channel and program) 2ch Stereo and 5.1 AC3.

Contact Tech Craft (www.techcraft.net) and see if they are planning an SWE... stand for the KDF-50WE655. The SWE50 may work.
I have one for a GWIII, and it is great. Bought for under $300. on a price match.

Alan

papadux, could u pls clarify, whats between screen and speakers? empty space or plastic?

Arkid,

To convert analog audio into a digital format requires an A/D converter and some digital processing in the TV set. You can think of having one on each the left and right audio channel, but in practice the entire FM demodulation of the audio can be done with digital processing. Once the signal samples are digitized, then it is a simple matter to multiplex them to the digital optical output.

All audio signals you receive (either analog or digital) started out as a analog signal when they were processed by the microphone. To create a digitized version of that signal it either occurs in the TV transmitter (for digital transmission) or in the TV receiver (for analog transmission).

It is of course a simple matter for the TV to pass through the audio from the digital channels, but there is a little bit of additional work to be done to get the audio from the analog signal into the right format for the digital output.
I guess Sony decided that the extra cost wasn't worth it. I disagree with them :-(

Dave

Originally posted by zoro
papadux, could u pls clarify, whats between screen and speakers? empty space or plastic?

between the screen and speakers is an empty space.

So, you can pick up this puppy by the ears!! LOL.

Give us some pictures bro?

Did you buy sony stand too? and Which Best buy was this?

I actually built my own hutch and cabinets to put my tv and speaker equipment on. I bought it at the BB at Poughkeepsie NY. But i am thinking i might ask to exchange this one because of the Two blown/dead pixels. I can't really see them unless close but i just don't want any problems to arise. I am Definatly keeping the Sony XS line, it is a great pick.

did u get to see xs right next to current xbr and wf? what is ur evaluation as far pq, aesthetics

PQ is great, like i said i think it is the same as the XBR or better. I compared it to my cousin 70" XBR. Everything from video games to DVD looks absolutly great. AS far as black level, they actually look good. The advance features for tunning actually let you tweak the tv alot more than usual.

I can't wait to see one a 55XS955. Went by Best Buy today but all they had was the 42WE655 which I already have. I've been planning to replace the 655 with a Toshiba DLP after the holidays, but I'm so impressed with the SD PQ on the 655 that I am very tempted to replace it with a XS955 if it is an improvement over the 655.

papaduxx, when you get the chance please post a pic or two of your XS. Also if you could post a pic of the menu where it lets you adjust the PQ settings that the WE and WF don't allow. Thanks.

Originally posted by davis03
Arkid,

To convert analog audio into a digital format requires an A/D converter and some digital processing in the TV set. You can think of having one on each the left and right audio channel, but in practice the entire FM demodulation of the audio can be done with digital processing. Once the signal samples are digitized, then it is a simple matter to multiplex them to the digital optical output.

All audio signals you receive (either analog or digital) started out as a analog signal when they were processed by the microphone. To create a digitized version of that signal it either occurs in the TV transmitter (for digital transmission) or in the TV receiver (for analog transmission).

It is of course a simple matter for the TV to pass through the audio from the digital channels, but there is a little bit of additional work to be done to get the audio from the analog signal into the right format for the digital output.
I guess Sony decided that the extra cost wasn't worth it. I disagree with them :-(

Dave
Thanks for going through it all but I already understand how it works. What I didn't know as I've not had any experience with other sets is that some do have an A/D converter. I assumed they were all as this new Sony is.

Originally posted by papaduxx
PQ is great, like i said i think it is the same as the XBR or better. I compared it to my cousin 70" XBR. Everything from video games to DVD looks absolutly great. AS far as black level, they actually look good. The advance features for tunning actually let you tweak the tv alot more than usual.

Have you had chance to really mess about with the advanced video settings? Are there noticable improvements that can be made, it
seems that for the extra money you should be able to do quite a lot with it.
Also, if you made any adjustments is it far different from when you switched on OOTB?
Thanks.

i have messed around with them for alittle while and yes they do make a difference. So of them you have to know your stuff like white balace adjustments : R-GAIN, G-GAIN, B-GAIN, R-BIAS, G-BIAS, AND B-BIAS. Not sure what to do there, i'm sure i'll eventually figure it out, or if anyone has any info or comment on how to please let me know.

I made adjustment once i took it out b/c i know when i display a tv at BB (where i work) they always need atleast some minor adjustments.

From what I can gather so far, I see no evidence that there are any significant (maybe major would be better) differences in the light engines between the WF and XS models. There are firmware differences that provide a few more adjustments to be performed outside the service mode on the XS. These could potentially allow you to improve (or screw up) the picture more so than on the WF. The only other additional upgrades I see are an improved audio/speaker system, and 1 additional HDMI port. Am I missing something... anyone?

The look of XS is definitely more dramatic which I don't take to right away, but it could grow on me.

Not trying to put down this set or anyone who's purchasing it. I think it's a great set. I'm just trying to gather the facts as we go along.

papaduxx - I think the RGB gain and bias adjustments are for calibrating color temperature to be even across the gray scale. I don't know how you could do that without test equipment to measure this. Certainly not something I could do by eye.

Jeff

the good thing is that they have a button that puts the original factory settings back for the RGB gain and bias adjustments.

Could someone let me know how they think HD football looks on these sets (particularly the KDF-55WF655 for those who have them)? My last concern before making this purchase is whether or not there is motion blur. Thanks!

Hey papa, Don't mean to be annoying, but where's those pictures???

Originally posted by bcollins
OK - So I'm starting to build some real enthusiasm for the XS and my trigger finger's startin' to itch pretty badly. I've already priced around, locally and online and PCMall has the lowest price by far (as has already been mentioned in another thread). Their web page shows no stock so I called up to get some details. The guy tells me that he has -14 available (yes, that's a minus sign) but he's expecting a shipment in on Oct 28th. I ask him about manufacturer's warranty and problems OOTB and he say's that it's fully covered by Sony for 1 year and if there's any problems with the set within 30 days that I can send it back and he'll ship a new one out. He also says (and here's where it gets kind of shady, in my opinion) that he can give me an extra $200 off if I buy today.

Bottom line is that I get kind of queasy when I think of spending that kind of money for something that's really hard to send back from a vendor that I have no experience with. The price is really attractive though. I have to believe that at least a couple of those 14 sales they already have for this set are people on this board - probably in this thread. If so, what convinced you that they are safe to buy from? How reliable is PCMall? I appreciate any feedback that anyone has.

I have been thinking much the same as you but I have decided I will not buy something this expensive from a non-authorized dealer. PCMall is not an authorized dealer. It should be illegal for these places to say these items have a warranty because they DON'T at all if you buy from a non-authorized dealer. You will not be able to get service from most mfgs. I have a denon 3805 receiver and needed warranty work and they did verify it was purchased through an authorized dealer. With over 3gs that I'd be spending I would never take a risk. You never know what might happen and then with the web order you don't know if they'd take it back even if you paid the shipping back. You may get a total dud and then what will you do? If a deal sounds to good to be true....
I have no doubt pcmall would ship it and they seem a fairly big site but if you have any problems forget it. Might I remind you that the GWIIIs that were produced for the first half year or so were bad and needed warranty bulb and electronics fixes.
If you still decide to go with pcmall let us know how it goes. I am personally working with another source which might turn out to offer nearly as good a price as their listed one. No date yet though so I can't get a firm price yet. I'll keep you all posted.

Well, while Sony Style bumped up the price on the 60XS, Crutchfield just lowered it. I guess they figured out it doesn't hurt to cheapen an item you dont have...

Originally posted by J*Cio
Could someone let me know how they think HD football looks on these sets (particularly the KDF-55WF655 for those who have them)? My last concern before making this purchase is whether or not there is motion blur. Thanks!

Football is stunning. I have the KDF 55-WF655 and OTA CBS last weekend was amazing. No motion blur that I could discern. MNF on ABC was also spectacular. The detail was phenomenal. Highly reccomend it. Also, baseball on FOX was pretty great too. As far as sports go, no regrets thus far on this purchase.

Does anyone know how to adjust the horizontal picture on 55WF655? It's fine on all inputs except 7. I had DirecTV HD installed today and it looks great over HDMI except that 4:3 is not centered. I can't seem to figure out how to center the image. 16:9 HD looks great though.

Thanks.

Originally posted by papaduxx
[QUOTE]Originally posted by rotty2
Thanks for checking, but this is really only noticeable at night when the sun is down. The room needs to be dark with no lights on. It was totally undetectable during the day. It was like owning two different sets. papaduxx, If you get a chance, could you check again tonight? I'm glad to see that there were others battling between the Mits and Sonys. Thanks [/QUOTE/]

My tv is actually in my really really dark basement so it is like night time. Like i said i look couldn't see anything but i will definatly look again tonight.

Does anyone have any opinions/recomendation for me on the one (or two but totally differnt spots) out pixel?

I looked over the screen and didn't see anymore just two. One was black and did not occupy the whole pixel square and the other is sort of bright on one side when you look at it, it kinda resembles a chip in a glass windshield (pretty bright), but from the other side it looks black almost like the grid like structure that separates the pixels is broken on one edge and is in the middle of the pixel.


thanks again papaduxx, Did you happen to get a chance to look for the green bleed last night? Thanks
Also as I mentioned before I had the same black defects on my screen on 2 different GWIII's . They started out being 1/2 a pixel in size, and after a month or so they filled in a whole pixel. From an angle they appeared as a bright light shinning through the screen. Eventually I got used to them,but I know at first my eyes kept searching for them. I can definitely say none of these sets are perfect and all have some stuck pixels , though they may be very dim and you have to press your face against the screen to find them. I was always concerned about switching to a set that had a bright red pixel stuck right in the middle of the screen. My set that had the fewest stuck pixels had the worst green bleed problem. I think it's kind of a $4000+ roll of the dice. Good luck with your decision.

Originally posted by JeffZX9R
From what I can gather so far, I see no evidence that there are any significant (maybe major would be better) differences in the light engines between the WF and XS models. Jeff

Here is probably the only major 'advertised' difference (besides the XS enhanced tweakability and styling) between the WE/WF and the XS:

"LCD panel driver LSI minimizes motion blur caused by the response time lag of LCD panels"

If this is accurate, then I would consider that a major difference, and a big win for the LCD RP camp as LCD response has always been one of the significant drawbacks to this technology.

Now whether or not that information is true or not remains to be seen. Sony doesn't seem to publish this info on their web site nor in the manual. I've only seen mention of it in two places: a preliminary XS spec sheet and the info for the XS on Sear web site. Even after spending 1/2 hour on the phone with a Sony rep, I was left feeling that the rep really had no idea what I was talking about and just finally agreed with me to get me off the phone.

I actually watched tv/ played video games all night and did not see any signs of bleeding on the screen.

As far as pic i can take some with my camera but they won't be good alittle later i am going to borrow a better one.

Did you notice any significant motion blur? Does it seem better than the WE/WF models?

heres one , not that great of quality but better than nothing

Here is the Sony Block diagram for the new WE, WS and XS series. I can find no difference in these sets in how signals are processed. Coincidentally, they are now calling this the '04 GW.

another
discovery HD OTA

speaker space

pic of some of the adance menus

Originally posted by papaduxx
heres one , not that great of quality but better than nothing

Looks like a nice setup. If you get the better camera could you take some pics from the side and the speakers? I want to see how it might fit into my setup.
Thanks.