Here's a pic of the SU-GW11 stand

http://home.comcast.net/~jshen8/Picture_036.jpg

A few observations on the 60XS which I recently got:

1) The so-called 'advanced' controls in Pro mode. I have noticed that Live Color, Clear White, and Detail Enhancer seem to do absolutely nothing. I can see no difference whatsoever when adjusting these through their range of settings. I haven't tried them with any calibration patterns on the screen yet, just on some HD programs. But if their effect is so subtle that it can't be seen, then what good are they? Are these a joke or does my set have a problem? People have been pretty quiet about these advanced controls, so I'm just wondering what others' experience has been.

2) Also, I am doubting the merit of HDMI. Most SD looks pretty bad through through E* satellite (DVI->HDMI on the 811 receiver), but is night/day difference compared to S-video (s-video looking much clearer on nearly all content). Haven't tried component yet. Is that typical? Just wondering if component is the best of both worlds. Will have to test it.

3) Even HD is mostly disappointing. The sat HD channels just don't have the zing that I expected. That could just be E* or the sat receiver I suppose. HD OTA through the 811 receiver is bland. Through cable HD is quite impressive though. Wondering again if this is a side effect of HDMI or what? More experimenting will tell.

4) Power saver is so subtle that I feel they might as well have just made it a 100-watt bulb. Instant 32-watt savings.

At this point I am thinking the 60WF might be the better choice if one doesn't need 4 HD inputs. On the plus side DVD's through component have been pretty impressive. Watched Van Helsing last night. Disappointed at first by the lack of detail during the Dr. Jeckyl scene. Tried fixing it with Pro mode. Gave up and switched to the 'dreaded' Vivid mode and was a happy camper. I'm hopeful that some of the deficiencies will be fixed by a DVE calibration.

Jay:

How wide is that stand? It looks very similar to the SUGW1, which has solid sides on it. A 55 on that model is probably perfect, but a 60XS would likely hang over like mine does. Incidentally, I think I now prefer the 54.5" stand to the "12" at least in my setup.

Since game platforms sometimes don't conform to broadcast standards, I think a bit of hash around the edges might be expected on occasion. If you are coming from a CRT (which typically overscan a bit more than RP) you might not have seen it until now. Have you tried the +1 setting?

After living with this set for a few days I am starting to get the tweaks down (not super "umr" tweaks yet) but it keeps getting better. The one thing I thought I might have to compromise on coming from a CRT to a RP is the blacks...earlier RPs sometimes would not resolve stuff very well from about 0 IRE up to 10 or 15 IRE, sometimes muddying them all together in a non-linear "knee" compression which made it difficult if not impossible to set the pedestal properly. I'm very happy to report that I don't see that as a problem on the IV generation sets. There is still the situation where individual broadcasts are not set up exactly the same..."Listen Up" tonight needed the blacks raised a few clicks in comparison to MNF, but the IVs seem to handle it without distorting the gray scale at those levels. Having 24 profiles and 3 DRC presets on th XS is a big help.

A couple of years ago some of the "wisdom" being spouted was that rescaling would be an issue. Some folks said that a native rez of 720 (or 1080...just now appearing and very pricey) would look best with 720 source material (or 1080, respectively). After seeing both rez on the XS, I'm thinking maybe that's no longer an issue (if it ever was) as both look equally good to me. I think current rescaling technology may have made that a moot point. The DRC (on SD) uses some of the same technology for line doubling, and it's as smooth as a baby's bottom.

Of course both are rescaled on the XS to 788, and my guess is that if the rescaling weren't up to snuff Sony would have been foolish to not go with 720. As it stands, since rescaling is not apparently an issue anymore, it makes sense to go with more pixels to reduce the screen door effect, which is all but absent at this rez.

Also, at the time networks picked one format or the other, the conventional wisdom was that if you would be showing a lot of sports, 720 made more sense to take advantage of the lower motion artifacts of progressive scan, and that if you would be showing a lot of drama/sitcom/docu stuff, 1080 made more sense due to higher rez, but might have more motion artifacts.

Well I'm here to tell you, that this was apparently overthinking things as well, as I see absolutely NO motion artifacts on either, regardless of source material, and 720 does not appear AT ALL to be of a lower rez. This generation of sets has dealt with both issues to the point where they have now become non-issues.

Originally posted by barnabas
A few observations on the 60XS which I recently got:

1) The so-called 'advanced' controls in Pro mode. I have noticed that Live Color, Clear White, and Detail Enhancer seem to do absolutely nothing...

4) Power saver is so subtle that I feel they might as well have just made it a 100-watt bulb. Instant 32-watt savings.

At this point I am thinking the 60WF might be the better choice if one doesn't need 4 HD inputs...I'm hopeful that some of the deficiencies will be fixed by a DVE calibration.

There's a definite learning curve. I used to set up 12' screens with dual Sony FP sets for the U of Texas, so I've got a head start, but anyone can pick it up, it just takes time. I don't even expect to get mine just right for a few weeks, but it gets better every day. Clear White is subtle, I noticed that it seems to affect only pix elements above 95 IRE or so. I found a scene where it definitely took the yellow out of white highlights.

Live Color is still an enigma to me. The Detail Enhancer and DRC (on SD) are subtle as well, but that's a good thing. Unless there is high-freq detail to enhance, you won't notice much, so they thankfully don't muck up what they aren't supposed to like some earlier generations of this have done. If you freeze some SD video with diagonal sharp edges in it it forces the signal into 262.5 lines of rez (freeze-field, actually about 242 visible), and there will be stairstepping on those diagonal lines (sharpness must be up). Do that and then play around with the different levels, and you will begin to see the advantages of these tweaks.

I still think the big advantage of the XS (like the XBRs) is in the sheer number of saveable presets. Until you actually start to make the subtle distinctions that you will as you get used to the set, these seem like they have no use, but as you learn more you will be glad they are there, as well as the additional tweaks. The XS form factor is really growing on me, too.

I think the set actually looks better OOTB with power saving on...but I've never liked the over-bright sets as they ship, which every manufacturer does to make the sets "pop" at BB and CC. On or off, you can pretty much tweak them similarly, but even in bright daylight (and my white Arizona condo with glass on 3 sides is about as bright as it gets) with PS on, there's brightness to spare, so if it lengthens bulb life, PS stays on permanently for me.

barnabas,

I just got the 60XS and E* installed this past weekend...haven't even had the time to think about tweaking it yet, but I did finally get to play a little last night. I too am using the DVI to HDMI and on the HD channels it looks simply stunning. Are you new to E*? When my system was first connected on Saturday, it looked like crap. It took me 2 days to figure out that the 811 comes from the factory set to 480i output as default! I reset it to 720P and it looks amazing now. (I think it is Menu 6-1-9 to change the output) I have not been able to tell the difference between 720P or 1080i on any channel so far.

I have not tried outputting Component or S-Video yet, but to me the SD channels aren't terrible...they aren't great, but watchable. Of course, I am sitting about 12 feet away from the set.

Hopefully I have the time this coming weekend to attempt a tweak with Avia and DVE..I am a newbie to all of this and have never tweaked a set in my life, so if anyone else out there has started and feels like sharing the changes they made, it would be appreciated.

Jason

One more question...I tried the HD OTA tuner for the first time last night and had some trouble. I am about 20 miles from the towers and the VHF channels came in no problem, but I could only get 1 of 3 UHF channels. Anyway, my question is, is there a way to measure the signal strength of the channel using the tuner in the XS? All I can find is it either works, or says "No Signal"

Thanks,
Jason

Has anyone tried to register on the Sony website? It recognizes the XS, but none of the WEs come up.

You need to go into the diagnostics section of the menu...it will show you a signal meter and some other data on the channel you are tuned to. I use this all the time to tweak my antenna for various channels.

Originally posted by jrapps
One more question...I tried the HD OTA tuner for the first time last night and had some trouble. I am about 20 miles from the towers and the VHF channels came in no problem, but I could only get 1 of 3 UHF channels. Anyway, my question is, is there a way to measure the signal strength of the channel using the tuner in the XS? All I can find is it either works, or says "No Signal"

Thanks,
Jason

Originally posted by jrapps
barnabas,

I just got the 60XS and E* installed this past weekend...haven't even had the time to think about tweaking it yet, but I did finally get to play a little last night. I too am using the DVI to HDMI and on the HD channels it looks simply stunning. Are you new to E*? When my system was first connected on Saturday, it looked like crap. It took me 2 days to figure out that the 811 comes from the factory set to 480i output as default! I reset it to 720P and it looks amazing now. (I think it is Menu 6-1-9 to change the output) I have not been able to tell the difference between 720P or 1080i on any channel so far.

Jason

Yes, on E*. Had it for a few months, but haven't used the HD features until now. Newbie to HD RPTV too. Running at 720p on the 811. Tried 1080i, but the reciever locks up and requires reboot just about anytime I change channels or use the sat guide at that setting. Have you had any problems with the 811 at 1080i? Looks like a call to E* is in order on that issue.

I have noticed an extreme difference in local OTA HD PQ running through the 811, when compared to HD through cable. I have both satellite and cable (just basic cable required for cable modem). I noticed when I connected my cable to the XS and scanned for channels that it picked up ALL of the local HD channels carried on my cable provider, which are normally available only if you subscribe to full cable with digital. Lucky me! But back to the PQ on HD. Watched Jay Leno last night, comparing PQ between the OTA HD through the 811 DVI/HDMI (at 720p) and the HD through cable (at 1080i) and there was just no comparison. The HD through cable was so clear and sharp that it looked like Jay was right there in my living room.

Could be any number of things making that difference I suppose. Tweaking, OTA antenna, 811 receiver, etc. So many variables. If I could run the 811 at 1080i without lockup that would at least rule out one possibility. Think I will try the OTA antenna direct into the XS, then component out from 811 to XS. Maybe I will just get out the DVE disc and start working on that first, although my DVD player does not have HDMI output so calibrating the HDMI input on XS will probably amount to a certain degree of guess work.

Originally posted by jrapps
One more question...I tried the HD OTA tuner for the first time last night and had some trouble. I am about 20 miles from the towers and the VHF channels came in no problem, but I could only get 1 of 3 UHF channels. Anyway, my question is, is there a way to measure the signal strength of the channel using the tuner in the XS? All I can find is it either works, or says "No Signal"

Thanks,
Jason

Are you running OTA through the 811 or direct into the TV. If running it through the 811, it has a nice signal strength meter built into the setup menu and also when you press 'View TV' button on the remote. Although some of the 811 are known to lose program guide information when running OTA through them. Mine loses PG info at random intervals ever since I connected the OTA antenna. Requires a reboot to get it back.

I bought the Tech Craft Stand for my 50" Sony LCD 655 - it's 20" high so it's about 4" higher that the Sony stand. So far the vertical viewing angle is fine... and it's $200 cheaper.

*wahoo

I ran home over my lunch break to play some more. :-) I got the signal strength meter in the 811 to work and it looks like the stations I am not getting are below 50% while the others are in the 80% range. Looks like I need an amplified antenna.

At the moment I am running the OTA into both the XS and the 811. I switch back and forth every now and then to see which one looks clearer, and so far I think the tuner in the TV does a better job. Now that I know where to find the signal meter in the TV itself, I will probably just route the OTA into that and forget trying on the 811. Unfortunately for me, cable is not an option. It's over the air, or satelite only.

Of course, now that I have seen HD in my own living room, I am thinking of jumping ship to DirecTV to get the HD Tivo. And I've only had E* for 3 days! I haven't had any problems of course, and so far I have not seen my 811 lock up at 1080i, but I admit I left it in 720p mode for now.

Anyone out there ever use the HD PVR from either D* or E*?

Jason

just got my 60XS last week and the stand works out well, check out my pic's

One more from the side.

Plex, what's the TV Stand you are using and can you tell me who sells it?

Thanks,

Mark

I also picked up a Panny DVD S97 absolutely stunning. I have the TechCraft 58" Stand from Circuit City...it's the model with just one glass shelf. The 55CS looks good on it..it only hangs out about 2 inches from each side.

Can't wait to see HD through DTV.

I have the Sony KDF-55WF655, and I'm planning to do an AVIA calibration this weekend. What should I use as my TV setting starting points for...

1) DVD
2) HD

By starting points I mean the video mode (Vivid, Standard or Pro) and color temperature.

Any recommendations appreciated! Thanks!

Originally posted by J*Cio
I have the Sony KDF-55WF655, and I'm planning to do an AVIA calibration this weekend. What should I use as my TV setting starting points for...

1) DVD
2) HD

By starting points I mean the video mode (Vivid, Standard or Pro) and color temperature.

Any recommendations appreciated! Thanks!

I'm using Pro mode/neutral for all inputs on my 50WE655.

A GWIV tweaks thread has been started here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=465144

Originally posted by Krynsky
Plex, what's the TV Stand you are using and can you tell me who sells it?

Thanks,

Mark


Entertainment Credenza
Item Number: 8854-103
Avg. Retail Price: $271.99 (more details) I paid $215 OTD
Collection: Lockport
Finish: American Cherry
Type: TV/VCR Stands

Dimensions
W:59 1/2" (151.0cm)
D:21 3/8" (54.4cm)
H:24 3/8" (61.8cm)
more dimensions & weights TV shelf
W:59 1/2" (151.0cm)

TV Weight Limit
240 lbs. (109 kg.)

inside Dimensions

each side cabnet ~18" wide
center shelf ~19.5x10x18
:D

I am new to the LCD RP world and have scanned this thread until my eyes gave out, but I haven't seen a post yet where someone has compared the actual picture of the WE/WF models as compared ot the XS. I know that the XS provides more inputs and user controls, but is there any picture quality improvement?

I apologize in advance if someone has posted that and I just can't find it.

I have the 55xs on order, and I've seen a couple times in this thread where someone says they think a certain store has one on display, but no one seems to have actually found one for purchase. Has ANYONE bought a 55xs yet? I now the date changed on Crutchfield to the 15th of Nov. Just wondering if that is in fact when stores will start getting them. I can't wait much longer, as I've had the TV on order since early August, and even have an Avdeco stand sitting in a Box waiting for it since Sept!:D

last thursday night and received the TV last night. Not sure if they still have them on stock. With the holiday Coupon, free shipping, no tax and memebership discount it was a no brainer.

Originally posted by BrianBHD
...I haven't seen a post yet where someone has compared the actual picture of the WE/WF models as compared ot the XS. I know that the XS provides more inputs and user controls, but is there any picture quality improvement?...

Brian, my guess would be that this is EXACTLY WHY those user controls exist in the first place...to improve the PQ beyond what you can with a WE/WF.

Or if you are wondering whether an A/B between a WE and an XS tweaked the same (IOW, the XS untweaked in those exclusive areas) might show any significant difference, my guess would be likely not. The basic Wega engine is the same, after all. I personally like the XS form factor, so in my eyes it wins a side-by-side even when turned off.

The comparison you are searching for is not something you will likely come by. Rare is the person who has both in his media room tweaked up next to each other, and even if you found them coincidentally side-by-side in a store, they're very likely not tweaked, or even set up similarly.

To answer your question another way, I don't think you would be giving much up by settling for a WE/WF, but for some of us, the XS made more sense for one reason or another.

Originally posted by TomCat
I still think the big advantage of the XS (like the XBRs) is in the sheer number of saveable presets.


What do yo mean by presets. Are all of the video settings separate for each input (i.e. DVD component input set to cinema mode and HDMI more skewed towards vivid for sports?)

Does the WF line have this?

I have the 60XS and at times the fan seems unusually loud. I notice when I first turn on the set it is whisper quiet. I can barely hear it without trying hard to listen for it even in a totally quiet room. Within about an hour (maybe less, I haven't timed it exaclty) it is clearly audible at 16 feet as a low pithed hum to the point where it is kind of distracting during programs where there are quiet periods.

Does the fan run at two different speeds? IOW, slower when the bulb is cooler and faster as it heats up? Or should it run at a constant speed?

Originally posted by TomCat
Brian, my guess would be that this is EXACTLY WHY those user controls exist in the first place...to improve the PQ beyond what you can with a WE/WF.

To answer your question another way, I don't think you would be giving much up by settling for a WE/WF, but for some of us, the XS made more sense for one reason or another.

Thanks. Even though the MSRP is only $300 diff, I think I can get the WF655 for $500 cheaper than the XS, so it's a harder decision. Time to hit the stores for myself.

Brian

Yes Brian, if you like looks of WF better , then it makes more sense! 55WF available now, 55XS not

Originally posted by barnabas
I have the 60XS and at times the fan seems unusually loud. I notice when I first turn on the set it is whisper quiet. I can barely hear it without trying hard to listen for it even in a totally quiet room. Within about an hour (maybe less, I haven't timed it exaclty) it is clearly audible at 16 feet as a low pithed hum to the point where it is kind of distracting during programs where there are quiet periods.

Does the fan run at two different speeds? IOW, slower when the bulb is cooler and faster as it heats up? Or should it run at a constant speed?

It might be a multispeed fan. Are you sure it's the TV fan? My receiver also has a fan that only comes on once it gets hot.

There is an option in the setup menu called "high altitude" which I am told runs the fan at its higher speed sooner (or all the time) because the thinner air makes it harder to cool the bulb. If that's true, you could turn on this option and then see if you hear the hum immediately even with a cool TV. If you do, then you can troubleshoot to see if there is anything loose on or near the TV that might be vibrating, or see if there is anything directly behind the fan exhaust (wherever that is) that could be amplifying the sound.

My 55XS ordered the first week of October is "in" and will be delivered on Sat Nov 6th. I purchased from "Ed Kellum & Son" in Dallas.

Originally posted by zoro
Yes Brian, if you like looks of WF better , then it makes more sense! 55WF available now, 55XS not

Yup. Do you want "handles" and a menu option you'll use 5 times, or $300 to put towards your stand/next dvd player/cables/wife's birthday/gas/etc? ;-)

I think, i like more wider, sleeker look, than taller, squarish, and I find, the gray plastic, looked more aesthatically appealing, glossy, plus picture more closer to xbr! all worth for $300

Originally posted by barnabas
I have the 60XS and at times the fan seems unusually loud. I notice when I first turn on the set it is whisper quiet. I can barely hear it without trying hard to listen for it even in a totally quiet room. Within about an hour (maybe less, I haven't timed it exaclty) it is clearly audible at 16 feet as a low pithed hum to the point where it is kind of distracting during programs where there are quiet periods.

Does the fan run at two different speeds? IOW, slower when the bulb is cooler and faster as it heats up? Or should it run at a constant speed?


I've noticed the same thing on my WF655. The fan is very noticeable after the TV has been on for 45 minutes or so. Mine sounds a bit like a neighbor 7 or 8 houses away is running his lawnmower or something. It really ruins the listening experience while watching the TV. I've checked to make sure that nothing is vibrarting around the TV. The noise is definitely coming from the fan port.

I'm still in the 30 day return window and I'm thinking about getting a refund on this TV that I otherwise love. Anybody else hearing the same thing, or I just get a bad fan unit?

Membership discount?

Originally posted by SwanSong
last thursday night and received the TV last night. Not sure if they still have them on stock. With the holiday Coupon, free shipping, no tax and memebership discount it was a no brainer.

Originally posted by rmcewan
Yup. Do you want "handles" and a menu option you'll use 5 times, or $300 to put towards your stand/next dvd player/cables/wife's birthday/gas/etc? ;-)

Well, her bday is next month... :)

To be honest, I don't care about the look of the TV. I'm just looking for picture quality. If I can get close to the same picture quality and sav $300-$500 to put towards the stand, I'll do that. Both sets have the same engine, which makes up my mind. I don't need the extra HDMI input either.

Thanks for everyone's help.

My WF55's fan seems to get louder as the tv is on. It must be thermal controlled in order to get faster as the unit heats up. It not abnormally loud but louder then when you first turn on the unit for sure. I would just recommend you leave ample space between the back of the tv and wall or cabinet/stand. This way the exhaust has room to breathe and you're not amplifying the sound of the fan when it accelerates by having it blow against something. As these units get out to the public more maybe Sony will address it, but honestly it's not as bad as some units I've heard. Unfortunately a byproduct of these brighter bulbs and rear projection units is heat. I don't believe it to be a defect by any means.

Originally posted by ucfknight
I've noticed the same thing on my WF655. The fan is very noticeable after the TV has been on for 45 minutes or so. Mine sounds a bit like a neighbor 7 or 8 houses away is running his lawnmower or something. It really ruins the listening experience while watching the TV. I've checked to make sure that nothing is vibrarting around the TV. The noise is definitely coming from the fan port.

I'm still in the 30 day return window and I'm thinking about getting a refund on this TV that I otherwise love. Anybody else hearing the same thing, or I just get a bad fan unit?


Have had the 55WF for a few days. Can't complain about fan noise, then again, I've had the Denon cranked during viewing and the TV speakers cranked during PS2'ing.

I did have the set on today with no volume while doing the auto-program. Heard the fan, but it didn't stand out as being very loud. It was just 'there.'

I'll listen for it after a couple hours of viewing to see how loud it is.

Originally posted by drhollen
What do yo mean by presets. Are all of the video settings separate for each input (i.e. DVD component input set to cinema mode and HDMI more skewed towards vivid for sports?)

Does the WF line have this?

Yes.

And no.

The XBR and XS have 3 totally separate presets for each input, plus 3 editable DRC profiles that can be applied to any or all those 24 presets. I consider this a huge advantage in a world where PQ varies so wildly (HD and SD coexisting) and can usually be divided into PQ categories by source.

I don't think the WE/WF's can do this, but I'm not sure.

one DIS-advantage of that (on the XS/XBR) is that if you use Avia or DVE on a DVD component or S input to tweak things up, it can't help you on the HDMI inputs since it is not global.

I have not noticed any undue fan noise on my 55WF.

The 55WF also has 3 separate presets (modes) for each input, and 3 editable DRC presets. The DRC presets are common between all inputs though.

Originally posted by TH3_FRB
Membership discount?

1% of all purchases by signing up for their "OneCall Pass" program.

Originally posted by domer67
Have had the 55WF for a few days. Can't complain about fan noise, then again, I've had the Denon cranked during viewing and the TV speakers cranked during PS2'ing.

I did have the set on today with no volume while doing the auto-program. Heard the fan, but it didn't stand out as being very loud. It was just 'there.'

I'll listen for it after a couple hours of viewing to see how loud it is.

It is noticeable at all times while listening at normal levels on the TV speakers (15 or so) during normal TV viewing. The noise is always there.

While watching a movie with the the receiver on and 6 speakers of DTS sound cranked, it is noticeable during quiet scenes and ones where there is just dialog.

It is a constant hum and is quite annoying. The TV is 8 inches from the wall with nothing anywhere near it.

Originally posted by robshdtv
My WF55's fan seems to get louder as the tv is on. It must be thermal controlled in order to get faster as the unit heats up. It not abnormally loud but louder then when you first turn on the unit for sure. I would just recommend you leave ample space between the back of the tv and wall or cabinet/stand. This way the exhaust has room to breathe and you're not amplifying the sound of the fan when it accelerates by having it blow against something. As these units get out to the public more maybe Sony will address it, but honestly it's not as bad as some units I've heard. Unfortunately a byproduct of these brighter bulbs and rear projection units is heat. I don't believe it to be a defect by any means.

Well, let's put it this way. The TV is much louder than the HTPC I have sitting underneath it. I've worked very hard to make that thing inaudibly quiet. Unfortunately, my TV is ruining that.

Originally posted by jjdenver
It might be a multispeed fan. Are you sure it's the TV fan? There is an option in the setup menu called "high altitude" which I am told runs the fan at its higher speed sooner (or all the time) because the thinner air makes it harder to cool the bulb. If that's true, you could turn on this option and then see if you hear the hum immediately even with a cool TV.

It's definitely the fan. Only the TV and sat receiver on. A good distance from the wall. Nothing on the tv stand seems to be vibrating excessively. I tried the high altitude setting. I found that the high altitude setting is a little louder than the 'normal', but not nearly as loud as the sound it makes after being on for an hour or two. Hate to return it as it is flawless in all other respect, like pixels, etc. and would not want to take the chance of getting one that is worse. Seeing that some others are noticing this too, chances are that if it turns out to be a QC problem, then an exchange from the same store might have the same problem. Think I'm going to ride it out until I find out something more definitive. Maybe give Sony a call and see what they know.

Here are observations from the field after lengthy research:
1. Samsung - this DLP perhaps best at avoiding overscan problems from my observations, & they have apparently solved most of the green tint push from last year’s models with the HLP series. BUT: reports of QC problems with audio out of sync, ballast/bulb issues.
2. JVC - DILA has excellent styling & economy of space, with speakers below screen, smooth picture, direct access on remote to rear inputs rather than scrolling through all inputs. BUT: still some QC problem reports, screen door effect more noticeable to some, fewer rear inputs.
3. Hitachi - gets high marks for cabinet styling and potential picture. BUT: more expensive than others for same size screen, reports of assembly problems from Mexico plant, e.g., inside the screen scratches, color anomalies in part of the screen.
4. Panasonic - DLP model may not win in all departments, but is strong in enough to possibly be a real contender for best balance of strengths/weaknesses. BUT: repeated complaints of apparently unsolvable fan noise that is a deal killer for people with sensitive ears. Very nice remote.
5. Toshiba - DLP not outstanding in any way, but not bad, either, and you get a couple of extra inches in size. BUT: fewer rear inputs than the Panasonic, flimsy remote, like Panasonic, Hitachi & XS Sonys wastes way too much space with side mount fixed speakers.
6. Mitsubishi - Seems to have salespersons singing its praises for build quality (how they know this soon makes me suspect it’s a premature judgment), picture is sharp, has integrated tuner. BUT: awful glare with protective screen, sharpness does not equal pleasing long term viewing, can appear grainy and washed out.
6. Sony - LCD may have overall smoothest picture, excellent picture setting versatility with XS models for all inputs, standard signals appear a little less objectionable than with some other sets, integrated tuner a big plus. BUT: QC problems with previous generation along with poor customer service issues leaves a bad taste for some, may have worst overscan problems, which may or may not be remedied in the service menu, fan noise which may increase the longer the set is on.

So, the question is, is it still too early to buy? After spending the better part of the last year lurking in the various retail stores, reading this & other websites, reviews in publications, etc., I’m still too wary to take the plunge and afraid of frustration and disappointment. What’s with these big manufacturers releasing such big ticket items without ironing out the wrinkles? I’ve owned many electronic components over the years and have found all major brands to have been quite reliable for the most part (including my 20+ year old never repaired Mitsubishi 20" CRT set, one of the first stereo sets which set me back almost $800 all those years ago, and which still has perhaps the smoothest picture of any set of any size I’ve ever owned). But I’m still to be convinced that any set is worth the financial plunge, and though I'm a little picky, I'm not entirely anal retentive or unreasonable in my expectations. And as I will be unable to bear watching national news after this past Tuesday, DVDs will be taking a more dominant role in my leisure time, and I’ve been ready for an HDTV set since well before yesterday. I’ll keep researching until the price/benefit/risk ratio appears to be reasonable. The Sony XS 55" may be the one, but I have yet to be convinced.

Uncledougie...

I too did a great deal of reserach and I agree with you. Most of the new televsions appear to have QC problem and that is extremely frustrating. I own a monitor for 17 years and I can't imagine spending $2000 for a tv then dealing with a QC issue. I have my eyes set on the WE655, but the new fan problem is giving me cold feet again! :(

What is up with the fan noise? Does it appear in the 50WE655?

First off I love this site.

I am looking to order the KDF55WF655, now I see the KDF55XS955 for about $300 more. Is it worth it to go with the XS? Does the XS have the glass screen? How about the 60xs? I was not happy with the glass screens I saw on some Sonys. The WF655 has the matte screen which IMO is best for the glare issue.

I am having a hard time finding out which Sony screens use the glass, as I want to stay away from them.

Thx

I have the 60XS and I love it, but if there is one piece of advice I can give anyone, it is make sure you see the set in person at a local B&M store BEFORE you buy it online. No matter how many pictures you see, or reviews you read, you will never realy get an idea of what it looks like unless you see it in person. Everyone's tastes are different.

That being said, I got to watch NBC's lineup last night in HD...simply amazing. I haven't even had the time to tweak this set yet and I am very pleased. I do see a little black crush, but I am hoping this weekend I can clear that up a little bit. Even if I can't, I am very pleased with the set.

I do not seem to have the fan problem. When I first power up the set, I hear the fan kick in but it is very low (barely audible) and once the audio turns on, I never hear the fan again.

Jason

Originally posted by laynrubr
First off I love this site.

I am looking to order the KDF55WF655, now I see the KDF55XS955 for about $300 more. Is it worth it to go with the XS? Does the XS have the glass screen? How about the 60xs? I was not happy with the glass screens I saw on some Sonys. The WF655 has the matte screen which IMO is best for the glare issue.

I am having a hard time finding out which Sony screens use the glass, as I want to stay away from them.

Thx

XBR uses the glass screen.. XS has a little different look to it (it's alot wider if that matters) 1 extra HDMI port, and some xtra tweaks that can be done in the menu.

I was told by two sources there would be no new XBR model until later in 2005, and presumably they will keep the glass protective screen, which you might note makes the set much heavier to lift and move, never mind the glare factor. I can so far detect no difference between the picture qualities of the WF and XS models, which appear to use the same electronics, with extra input and setting versatility on the XS, as noted.

Originally posted by uncledougie
I was told by two sources there would be no new XBR model until later in 2005, and presumably they will keep the glass protective screen, which you might note makes the set much heavier to lift and move, never mind the glare factor. I can so far detect no difference between the picture qualities of the WE and XS models, which appear to use the same electronics, with extra input and setting versatility on the XS, as noted.

From what I have read, there IS a diff in the electronics between the WE and WF models, but not the WF and XS models. I don't know this for a fact though.

Im about to pull the trigger, and before I do I want to make sure about the glass screens. I would go to a local retailer to look, although none have any XS models on display, and none have the 60". Just the 55WF655 on display. The only reason I want to clarify again is that my local sales reps tell me different, and I think they are wrong. They told me the 60WF655, and the 60XS955 have the glass?

Here is what I understand:

55WF655, 55XS955, 60WF655, 60XS955=matte screens

XBR models=glass screen

Is this correct?

Thx

YUP 110% CORRECT

Originally posted by laynrubr
Here is what I understand:

55WF655, 55XS955, 60WF655, 60XS955=matte screens

XBR models=glass screen

Is this correct?

Yes, you are correct.

My new 55wf655 has absolutely no fan noise. I don't hear anything anytime at any volume level and from any distance. Maybe it's because my house is cool (around 70-74 degree at this time of year in Northern CA). Sitting right in the back of the TV set, I can feel hot air coming from the vent, but it's just dead quiet.

You may try to use the power saving mode to reduce the heat (thus the fan level). I don't need to do that, but it may help those of you w/ fan noise problems.

Thanks for the info!!!

What is the "THE FAN PROBLEM", or should it be "FAN FIXATION"?
Does anyone have experimental evidence of fan noise, i.e. used a sound meter on it - or is this just a few people who have - as I have - come from silent tube sets to a set with a fan? I only notice the fan when I switch everything off at night and the house is completely silent. My TiVo makes more noise. Perhaps you have too much set for your room? Perhaps it is too close the the wall (sound reflection).

I've been meaning to buy that Radioshack sound meter for some time (~$40) for HT tune-up and my silent-PC build. Well, this W/E i'll go pick it up and post some results from my 55WF. Why doesn't someone complaining of fan noise run out to the shack and pick one up too? (if $$ are a problem - you can allways return for a refund).

Don't put people off by implying there is a QC problem without some real evidence. New owners are allways the biggest critic of a given product.

I totally agreed with Uncledungie that all the TV choices out there has its own problem, be it small or big, enough to bother some, and neglibile for others.
As consumers, we all want our purchases to be glitch free.
But, the fact is, in this age of neck-breaking fast, dog eats dog of technology development, by the time a product is really perfected, it would also be deemed out of date. Look at CRT's.
That's why electronic companies, such as Sony, Hitachi, knowing that problems and plenty of rooms for improvement exist....still roll out new models year after year built with what they can and what they have (with just a little something up their sleeves reserved as tromp cards), to meet the demand of the gadget/technology craving guys and gals, and to gain/retain market share. A few years ago, Samsung had the foresight of coming up with their first DLP sets. Even with numberous widely reported and publicized problems, they couldn't make them fast enough.
Of course, we can always wait a couple of years for the DLP, LCD, Lcos, RPTVs to get better. They problem is: there'll always be some newer, better, more heart-throbbingly attactive electronic beasts, with other congenital defects, lurking around the corner. How can we not be distracted then?
IMHO Life is too short. Time to buy is NOW.
Sorry for the long post.:D

Why didn't SONY release the 55XS when they released the 60XS? What's it been... about a month now since the 60XS came out? And no sightings of the 55XS. I was hoping to buy one this weekend... it looks like I'll be waiting at least another week... I can't wait much longer!

Sorry if I sound stupid...but, if I buy digital video essentials for my 60xs955, and then I use it on my DVD component input; how do I do the other inputs? Do I simply copy the settings and carry them over? Will they be the same for S-video DirecTv and HD-cable using the other component input? And also for OTA antenna input?

I'd appreciate some help here! Again - sorry if this is a trivial question...

Originally posted by Kaef
I totally agreed with Uncledungie that all the TV choices out there has its own problem, be it small or big, enough to bother some, and neglibile for others.
As consumers, we all want our purchases to be glitch free.
But, the fact is, in this age of neck-breaking fast, dog eats dog of technology development, by the time a product is really perfected, it would also be deemed out of date. Look at CRT's.
That's why electronic companies, such as Sony, Hitachi, knowing that problems and plenty of rooms for improvement exist....still roll out new models year after year built with what they can and what they have (with just a little something up their sleeves reserved as tromp cards), to meet the demand of the gadget/technology craving guys and gals, and to gain/retain market share. A few years ago, Samsung had the foresight of coming up with their first DLP sets. Even with numberous widely reported and publicized problems, they couldn't make them fast enough.
Of course, we can always wait a couple of years for the DLP, LCD, Lcos, RPTVs to get better. They problem is: there'll always be some newer, better, more heart-throbbingly attactive electronic beasts, with other congenital defects, lurking around the corner. How can we not be distracted then?
IMHO Life is too short. Time to buy is NOW.
Sorry for the long post.:D

Well said!

As soon as you mention a "possible defect" people are going to get overly critical and start paying to much attention to something that maybe really never existed until someone points it out. Or if it really bothers some, others jump on the bandwagen because now they have something to concentrate on. I can hear the fan on my WF55, however I can hear the compressor on my refrigerator, and the water going in my washer, and the air rushing around when my ceiling fan is on, etc... these are all a part of being in "your enviroment". If the fan noise really bothers you and you only hear it when everything is silent in the house then IMHO you need to worry about something else. If it's that bad and you think it's a QC issue call Sony, your dealer or take it back! You may end up with something that has it's own slew of problems much worse then a little fan noise. Believe me I'v had 4 HDTV's and they all had something that wasn't quite right.

Life is to short, enjoy your new t.v. and don't spend to much time on the small stuff. You will NEVER find anything that you can't find something wrong with. It's the nature of the beast and that's my $.02.

If the fan noise really bothers you and you only hear it when everything is silent in the house then IMHO you need to worry about something else.

Hey Rob - I think you're referring to me. Dude! I'm in the stop-whining-about-a-barely-discernable-right-next-to-it-hum camp. To the extent that I'll go out and buy a sound meter to prove you can't hear it under normal conditions. I'd really like to stop a bad rumor getting out that could affect the sales, and therefore down-the-line support of my set.

I have a 42we655. I only hear the fan right after I press the power button, before the TV starts outputing sound from the speaker. And it has to be in a quite night.

I do have a question. Does anybody in SF bay area ( I live in Fremont) have problem getting the KQED over the air (channel 9.1)? I can get most of the other channels such as FOX 2.1, ABC 7.1 and CBS 5.1. But it always shows 'no signal' on 9.1.

Looks like KQED is in a different direction, and alot further away than your other channels. Check out antennaweb.org

Originally posted by hbt
I do have a question. Does anybody in SF bay area ( I live in Fremont) have problem getting the KQED over the air (channel 9.1)? I can get most of the other channels such as FOX 2.1, ABC 7.1 and CBS 5.1. But it always shows 'no signal' on 9.1.

I got KQED 9.1 OK from Milpitas, plus HDNET 4.2, which is the best HD source in term of HD air time (almost 24-7). I use an outdoor antenna pointing toward SF.

Is KQED 9.1 a lot weaker than FOX2.1, CBS5.1?

According to antennaweb.org 9.1 is in the same direction as 2.1 and 5.1, and should be stronger than those two.

BTW, I have 4.2 too.

Now that the 42we655 has been out for a while now, I'm interested in hearing from those folks who bought early in the product cycle. How has your experience with this unit changed (if at all) since you made your decision to buy. Recommend???

Originally posted by timick1
Why didn't SONY release the 55XS when they released the 60XS? What's it been... about a month now since the 60XS came out? And no sightings of the 55XS. I was hoping to buy one this weekend... it looks like I'll be waiting at least another week... I can't wait much longer!

Just a guess, but maybe Sony released the 55WF and the 60XS so that they would have one of each out in the stores until they could get fully ramped up, or until they had enough parts in stock to keep all four models going at once. I'm in the same boat as you, except I'm waiting for the 60" WF which should be in the local warehouse any day now.

Fan noise for me (42WE655) is minimal. Heck, it's a wonder I can hear anything after the workout I'm giving my HT. :)

The green tinge I'd noticed on my new set seems to have gone away (see a few pages back, I had the 42WE610 that I traded in) -- Here today, gone tomorrow. That's fine with me, I hope it stays away. I'm still waiting on a new remote from Sony to see if the new one will work with my Sony DVD player -- for some reason my other one didn't. I'll post when I get the new remote, along with the model to my DVD if for some reason it doesn't work.

Doug

By the way (quick followup to older post) I bought a DVI/HDMI adapter for my cable and it works great. In fact, I don't seem to have the drop out problems with the Digital Cable that I had with the 42WE610 -- I would get a fuzzy screen that would get a picture if I changed it to an HD channel -- don't ask me, that's just the way it was.

I will say that I don't like the HDMI connection vs. DVI. DVI was great because it was a screw down, but the HDMI just plugs in and seems to have an inconsisent grab. I supported it by propping the cable up, then using a little tape on the tv stand back to keep the cable from shifting. Just seems chincy (spelling?) compared to the DVI connection.

Doug

I am getting the 50we655
Can anyone recommend the best connections for the following components?

1. DVD Player - I think it's the first Sony ever made. Will upgrade soon
2. CHARTER HD-DVR
3. ONKYO Receiver I forget the model number, but it's only a couple years old.

That should be it.

Oh and thinking of hooking my computer up to it. Have an LCD upstairs - Is this a good idea. Have DVI vid card 128 MB

THX

Originally posted by blackngold19
I am getting the 50we655
Can anyone recommend the best connections for the following components?

1. DVD Player - I think it's the first Sony ever made. Will upgrade soon
2. CHARTER HD-DVR
3. ONKYO Receiver I forget the model number, but it's only a couple years old.

That should be it.

Oh and thinking of hooking my computer up to it. Have an LCD upstairs - Is this a good idea. Have DVI vid card 128 MB

THX

Ask the question "on what device do I want to get the best PQ?". That's HDMI. Switch everything else through the reciever, preferably with component.

Guys,

Just purchased the 55wf655 (hopefully will arrive in 2 weeks). I'll be sitting about 12' away from it. Do you guys think this is too close or do you think it'll be OK? Is there a "rule of thumb" regarding viewing distance? Pardon my ignorance. Thanks in advance!

I just got the 55WF earlier this week and I'm sitting about 9-9.5ft away. You'll be fine at your distance

jjdenver,

Are you waiting for U.E. like me? Just a guess since you're in Denver near their H.Q. and warehouse. I have to wait for them to ship it here to Dallas.

So, if you know, did they receive any sets out there today? Their computer showed 4 - 5 to arrive on the 5th. Supposedly, I am number 1 for U.E. in the country, that's waiting for the 60WF. So they should be sending at least one of them my way.

Thanks
Jeff

Originally posted by rmcewan
What is the "THE FAN PROBLEM", or should it be "FAN FIXATION"?
Does anyone have experimental evidence of fan noise, i.e. used a sound meter on it - or is this just a few people who have - as I have - come from silent tube sets to a set with a fan?
Don't put people off by implying there is a QC problem without some real evidence. New owners are allways the biggest critic of a given product.

We spend $xxxx on a television and we have a right to be critical. I happened to notice that the fan on my set increases in volume within the first hour that it's operating and I ask others if they have noticed this and whether or it's a legitimate problem or if it is normal. That's what this place is for...to gather opinions and experiences of others in order to help make more informed decisions. If it puts people off from buying, who cares except for Sony and retail salespeople?

Originally posted by rmcewan
Hey Rob - I think you're referring to me. Dude! I'm in the stop-whining-about-a-barely-discernable-right-next-to-it-hum camp. To the extent that I'll go out and buy a sound meter to prove you can't hear it under normal conditions. I'd really like to stop a bad rumor getting out that could affect the sales, and therefore down-the-line support of my set.

Can't hear it under normal conditions? "Barely-discernable-right-next-to-it-hum"? I sit 14 feet from my WF655 and can hear the fan at all times. I typically have my volume level set between 13 and 25 on the TV speakers. At times when the fan level is high, I can hear the fan even during action sequences. I don't call that "barely discernable". When the fan is on the low level, I can hear it between all breaks in dialogue. Just because you don't hear it on your set doesn't mean I can't hear it on my set.

Originally posted by barnabas
We spend $xxxx on a television and we have a right to be critical. I happened to notice that the fan on my set increases in volume within the first hour that it's operating and I ask others if they have noticed this and whether or it's a legitimate problem or if it is normal. That's what this place is for...to gather opinions and experiences of others in order to help make more informed decisions. If it puts people off from buying, who cares except for Sony and retail salespeople?

I completely agree with everything you just said.

Has anybody noticed a difference in PQ when watching an OTA HD broadcast using the built-in tuner vs. using the OTA tuner of say the Dishnetwork 811? I'd like to hear any comments on comparison of PQ using built in tuner vs a STB OTA tuner. Thanks much.....

Originally posted by jimboeau
Has anybody noticed a difference in PQ when watching an OTA HD broadcast using the built-in tuner vs. using the OTA tuner of say the Dishnetwork 811? I'd like to hear any comments on comparison of PQ using built in tuner vs a STB OTA tuner. Thanks much.....

I have the 811 w/OTA and basic cable (getting local HD for some reason with my basic cable, don't know why). Have noticed slightly better HD from the cable, but this could just be a difference between cable and OTA signal I suppose. Also, I am not able to run the 811 at 1080i for some reason, not sure what that's about at this point and neither is Dish. So not sure if that is a factor. Haven't tried hooking up the OTA direct to the set yet, takes so damn long to scan.

On another note (in case you did not know), OTA through the 811 will cause you to lose program guide info occassionally on the 811 (a known problem that DishNetwork told me they are trying to fix). You have to reboot the 811 to get it back. A case against OTA through the 811 (at least for the present).

Halvo,

The general rule of thumb for HD 16:9 viewing distance is 2 x Diagonal, which is about 9'2" for the 55" Sony. You'll be just fine.

Originally posted by ucfknight
Can't hear it under normal conditions? "Barely-discernable-right-next-to-it-hum"? I sit 14 feet from my WF655 and can hear the fan at all times. I typically have my volume level set between 13 and 25 on the TV speakers. At times when the fan level is high, I can hear the fan even during action sequences. I don't call that "barely discernable". When the fan is on the low level, I can hear it between all breaks in dialogue. Just because you don't hear it on your set doesn't mean I can't hear it on my set.

Finally, someone provides a description of sound-level that we can relate to! You have obviously got one of the diesel-powered fans found the in early 655 models. Give Sony a call, they'll replace it with an electric one.
J/K - J/K !!! Geeze.
So fellas -are you going to go out and get that sound meter? I'm off to Radioshack tomorrow.
PS: that aside - the pair of you are sounding just a little "fixated' :-p

So was there a batch of 655 models that had fans that need replacing with a different type? Is there a serial number series to avoid, or will retailers retrofit - or just wait to see if the purchaser complains? One update, saw the 60XS again tonight at Fry's and it appears that at least the display model had corrected some of the overscan worries I had from previous display comparisons - it was comparable to the Samsung 60" DLP nearby, and I've observed that Samsung overscan is relatively benign. Strangely enough, the Panasonic DLP 50" had awful overscan compared to an older Philips LCOS 55" next to it, playing the same signal. Don't know if it was set up wrong or was an inherent problem with the set. In all, Sony still had the smoothest, clearest picture even with less than ideal signal feed. Keeps me leaning toward the 55" XS model when it is available.

........... Did you hear that? NO? EXACTLY - that's how quiet my 55WF is.

Is there a serial number series to avoid

um... I was joking with the diesel thing. You're worrying me dude.

Originally posted by rmcewan
........... Did you hear that? NO? EXACTLY - that's how quiet my 55WF is. Seriously, I just muted the sound and heard the dog fart two rooms away.

my question may have gotten lost in the shuffle - any help would be appreciated!!

Sorry if I sound stupid...but, if I buy digital video essentials for my 60xs955, and then I use it on my DVD component input; how do I do the other inputs? Do I simply copy the settings and carry them over? Will they be the same for S-video DirecTv and HD-cable using the other component input? And also for OTA antenna input?

I'd appreciate some help here! Again - sorry if this is a trivial question...

Have the 55" WF.

Still, the only time I've been aware of the fan noise is when I was doing the auto-program and had no TV volume or really anything else going on in the house to hear. Even then, the noise from the fan wasn't very audible, but I was aware of it.

Other than that, even w/out the home theater on, just watching the set with the TV's speakers at a reasonable volume, can't hear the fan one bit.

If you are reading here doing research and deciding whether to buy one of these sets, I wouldn't let any talk of fan noise stop you. This is NOT to say others aren't hearing it. I'm not gonna say what others are or aren't hearing from the back of their sets, I just don't think you're looking at any kind of a 'build quality' problem here, just a very few isolated cases.

I just got my WF and can't hear any fan noise. Last night I had the vol about 5 or 6 as the kids were asleep and I couldn't here any noise.
I love this set, not only for the PQ but for all the other little things that make your life easier.
I had the Panny & the Hitachi and hated that you had to cycle through all the inputs but with this set you can turn off inputs you're not using and label the ones you are.
I could hear the fan on the Hitachi from upstairs. There was vertical banding with the Panny.
So far this set is very good.
Managed to get some HD channels working too in an area which is supposed to be difficult if not impossible to recieve any.
I had to put a massive antenna in my attic that could probably get a signal from Mars though.

Originally posted by uncledougie
One update, saw the 60XS again tonight at Fry's

Which Fry's? I'm in the Los Angeles area and I have yet to find a 60XS on display anywhere. Can anyone please list B&M's in the area that have it up?

Originally posted by arkid

Managed to get some HD channels working too in an area which is supposed to be difficult if not impossible to recieve any.
I had to put a massive antenna in my attic that could probably get a signal from Mars though.

Arkid - I'm in the SF Valley (just S of you) and ended up going with Time Warner Cable for HD locals. Dunno if you get TW in Valencia, but they retransmit CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, PBS, and Discovery HD channels unscrambled and perfect. The $120 antenna (which is the size of a 737 and couldn't pick up CBS) is going back to Fry's and the refund will pay for the basic for around a year.

Originally posted by Krynsky
Which Fry's? I'm in the Los Angeles area and I have yet to find a 60XS on display anywhere. Can anyone please list B&M's in the area that have it up?

Give Magnolia Audio Video a call (there's one in Canoga Park). They're that "high-end" arm of BB. They have alot of the higher-end stuff in.

Just called Magnolia...not on display for another week or so...

My 55XS was delivered as promised this morning. I had a 55WF for about 4 weeks waiting for the 55XS to arrive. The anti-glare screen is better on the 55XS. I also like the ability to perform additional "tweaks" without going into the service menu. I believe the PQ is better with the XS, but have no way to quantify or qualify it.

After about 2 years of researching and dithering I ordered a 60xs955 today (xs = excess?, oh well, everyone should indulge themself once in a while).

Anyway, I am considering what to do for a stand, and was wondering if one of you lucky folks that already own one could let me know what the width of the base is?

Originally posted by ucfknight
At times when the fan level is high, I can hear the fan even during action sequences. I don't call that "barely discernable". When the fan is on the low level, I can hear it between all breaks in dialogue.

I just got off the phone with Sony support. I described my situation, 16 feet distance, fan is whisper quiet first 30-45 mintues, then gradually increases in volume to where it can be easily hear during lulls in program volume. The Sony support person said the fan should run at a constant speed during normal operation and should be no more audible within 10 minutes of power on than at two hours of power on. If it gets louder as time goes on, she said it could indicate excessive heat and so the fan has to speed up to keep things cool. She recommended moving it to another location, which I am not going to do since it is in a wide open space where the temperature near the set is no more that 70 degrees.

By no means am I saying this is QC problem. So anyone on the fence with regards to this set remain calm and do not...I repeat do not panic. It is an awesome set in all regards. I have waited 1.5 years to buy my first RPTV after weighing all the options and considering all the pluses and minuses of the various technologies, I couldn't be happier with the PQ. I must now decide return or repair. Since my particular set is flawless in all other respects I am leaning toward repair if it can be done in home. Oh well, I am sure it will all work out. At least I got confirmation that this is not normal situation. That's all I was looking for.

Originally posted by mweppner
I buy digital video essentials for my 60xs955, and then I use it on my DVD component input; how do I do the other inputs? Do I simply copy the settings and carry them over? Will they be the same for S-video DirecTv and HD-cable using the other component input? And also for OTA antenna input?

The answer is yes, and no. Calibrating the input is specific to the source. The settings you will arrive at by using DVE on your DVD player are specific to the DVD player. Different devices (ie cable box, Tivo, vcr, etc) will not necessarily look best with the same settings. Also if you buy a different DVD player the settings may need to be changed. However calibrating off the DVD player will give you some ball park settings to try on your other devices/inputs. You will still need to evaluate those settings and adjust them. The only way to correctly calibrate another device woulkd be

Originally posted by mweppner
I buy digital video essentials for my 60xs955, and then I use it on my DVD component input; how do I do the other inputs? Do I simply copy the settings and carry them over? Will they be the same for S-video DirecTv and HD-cable using the other component input? And also for OTA antenna input?

The answer is yes, and no. Calibrating the input is specific to the source. The settings you will arrive at by using DVE on your DVD player are specific to the DVD player. Different devices (ie cable box, Tivo, vcr, etc) will not necessarily look best with the same settings. Also if you buy a different DVD player the settings may need to be changed. However calibrating off the DVD player will give you some ball park settings to try on your other devices/inputs. You will still need to evaluate those settings and adjust them. The only way to correctly calibrate another device woulkd be somehow display test patterns on that device.

thanks marcelval!!

Originally posted by barnabas
I just got off the phone with Sony support. I described my situation, 16 feet distance, fan is whisper quiet first 30-45 mintues, then gradually increases in volume to where it can be easily hear during lulls in program volume. The Sony support person said the fan should run at a constant speed during normal operation and should be no more audible within 10 minutes of power on than at two hours of power on.

I didn't read which set you had, but I have the 42WE655. I too notice the fan can be a little louder than it should. I once had a laptop that did this until a firmware was installed and I calibrated the fan (an auto capability in the CMOS). Does anyone know if there is any type of auto-calibration that can be performed on the GWIV's?

-Bryan

To rmcewan - it was a reasonable question, as there have been reports of a series of previous model Samsungs to avoid which had possible upgrades to parts after a certain build date. I caught that the diesel remark was in jest. But there are cycles in manufacturing when, if a particular part has been found deficient, then even though the model numbers are the same, the parts used are not in order to correct known defects. Anyway, local CC has a terrific deal today and I'm tempted to take the plunge (+ 2 yrs interest free financing). But they have only 60" XS model, which is a little outside the dimensions I was hoping for in relation to room size. Got to ponder it, though.

I sit pretty close to my TV, and I can never hear the fan....ever. I had a 43 Sammy DLP for about 2 days before it died, and the fan was quite a bit louder. I could hear it when the TV shut off, however not when there was audio

In a separate reply, I would agree that the XS has better PQ although I have nothing but my eyes to confirm this (I have the 42 WE)...also the fact that my eyes have seen the price of the XS makes me believe that they have better pq :)

jonesi

I've had the 60xs for a couple weeks now and I can hear the fan when the set is turned on. Only for a few seconds, then it slows down. I hear nothing after that, no matter how long it is on.

I also have a 60" GWIII and I think the picture is slightly better on it. The GWIV seems to have a bit more SDE which takes away from it. This is my second XS, since the first had some screen flaws, and they both had SDE.

Neither set is calibrated, but my GWIII is outstanding with HD.

stahlee

Originally posted by JeffZX9R
jjdenver,

Are you waiting for U.E. like me? Just a guess since you're in Denver near their H.Q. and warehouse. I have to wait for them to ship it here to Dallas.

So, if you know, did they receive any sets out there today? Their computer showed 4 - 5 to arrive on the 5th. Supposedly, I am number 1 for U.E. in the country, that's waiting for the 60WF. So they should be sending at least one of them my way.

Thanks
Jeff

Yes, I am getting a 60WF through U.E./Soundtrack. I called them today and talked to a sales rep who checked his computer. No sets in yet. First batch expected between Monday-Wednesday next week. I say "first batch" because last week another rep told me that there would be three deliverys over the next three weeks but he didn't say how many were in each. I've also been told (more than once) that the delivery dates to the warehouse are very unreliable - they get there when they get there.

I'm getting tired of waiting, which is a common refrain in this forum. I've got to content myself with collecting splitters and cables and such, and reading other posts in this thread from real owners. :)

I called them today and talked to a sales rep who checked his computer. No sets in yet. First batch expected between Monday-Wednesday next week.

That's NOT what I wanted to hear, but thanks anyway for the reply. I guess the soonest I could hope for now will be next Friday for delivery here in Texas. So I may be watching it by this time next Saturday. (fingers crossed):rolleyes:

This whole date changing thing with U.E. is really starting to Psss me off. They keep blaming Sony, but how come other retailers have had these sets for over a week now??:mad:

I swear... they change the dates one more time and I'm going to burn this place down. And I want my red Swingline back too.:p

Jeff

Originally posted by barnabas
I just got off the phone with Sony support. I described my situation, 16 feet distance, fan is whisper quiet first 30-45 mintues, then gradually increases in volume to where it can be easily hear during lulls in program volume. The Sony support person said the fan should run at a constant speed during normal operation and should be no more audible within 10 minutes of power on than at two hours of power on. If it gets louder as time goes on, she said it could indicate excessive heat and so the fan has to speed up to keep things cool. She recommended moving it to another location, which I am not going to do since it is in a wide open space where the temperature near the set is no more that 70 degrees.

By no means am I saying this is QC problem. So anyone on the fence with regards to this set remain calm and do not...I repeat do not panic. It is an awesome set in all regards. I have waited 1.5 years to buy my first RPTV after weighing all the options and considering all the pluses and minuses of the various technologies, I couldn't be happier with the PQ. I must now decide return or repair. Since my particular set is flawless in all other respects I am leaning toward repair if it can be done in home. Oh well, I am sure it will all work out. At least I got confirmation that this is not normal situation. That's all I was looking for.

Good for you on checking it out. Now hopefully we can all rest assured that the fan noise is normal under most circumstances. I fix computers for a living so if one wanted to, as long as the fan in these units is standard size and uses 12 volts, could be replaced with a quieter thermal controlled fan as well. It has not bothered me enough to really look in to this but if someone is willing to do it I'd be all ears to hear how it goes.

-R

Originally posted by uncledougie
The Sony 55XS is most appealing, save for excessive overscan problems (could service menu take care of or at least mitigate this?)...
Could someone explain what is meant here by "excessive overscan problems" and how this would affect the overall picture?

Michael

Overscan - all TVs "expand" the picture a bit so that you see a little less than the whole picture. (Think computer monitor that has the horizontal and vertical sizes a bit too big so that you lose the edges of the picture.)

You can usually reduce overscan in the service menu but you have to be ready to do several other geometry adjustments along with that - it's rarely as simple as just shrinking the picture a bit.

Ordered my 60WF, and I have been told it will be in at the end of Nov. This will be the longest 3 weeks ever.

Hi all,

Kinda new to the boards. Long time lurker =)

I ordered the KDF 55WF655 from Ultimate Electronics a couple weeks ago. The first set I had delivered had a strange image distortion problem along the edge of the screen in the bottom right corner that was kind of curved inwards. It was very noticeable and the delivery man went ahead and set me up with a replacement to be delivered 2 days later. The second set didn't have this issue, but just today when one channel I flipped to had the vertical banded test pattern on, I noticed that the rightmost bar was wider on the top than on the bottom. I pulled out my ruler and sure enough, the top edge of the rightmost bar was 1/2 of an inch wider than the bottom. On the left side, it was also a difference of 1/4 of an inch between the top (wider) and bottom (shorter) edges. This seemed very strange to me, as the border of the test pattern bars seemed to align with the pixels as far as I could tell. This geometry issue also shows up in SD full zoom - measuring the top and bottom edges of the black bars on the side yields different numbers. And in both HD and SD horizontal text will appear slightly slanted towards the bottom right. This was also an issue on my first set, but I had thought that it was just associated with the image distortion in the bottom right corner.

So, what's your guys' take on this? Has anyone else noticed this issue on their set? I stopped by the store again and talked to the assistant manager, and I asked to exchange the set with a 60 inch version of the KDF WF655 since I also wanted to move to a larger set at the same time. He quoted me 4-6 weeks because it was a special order, but in the meantime I'll bee keeping my set and will have another 30 day satisfaction guarantee/60 day pricematching guarantee when the new set gets delivered...

I have a week-old KDF 55WF655 that has been working quite well, no fan problem, no geometry distortion.

I have run into a strange OTA HDTV hiccup. I was watching WB's HD broadcast of Fellowship of the Ring. First 20 minutes or so was spectacular, when the screen blanked to no signal.

Diagnostics reported locked signal and 92% - 95% signal strength. And oddly, when I switched to another channel and then back, I get about 3 seconds of picture before it blanks again. Other HD channels work fine.

Ideas? I'd love to catch the second half tonight. Watching LOTR in HD is like putting on glasses for the first time. Details just explode out of the screen and the sense of depth was amazing.

Is 9-10 ft too close for viewing distance for the 60XS955? Does anyone sit this close? I am going from a 36" set and am concerned about it being too big. I expect delivery Thursday so I still could change my order.

I have seen several formulas to calculate recommended distances like 2 times the screen size, 2 to 3 times the screen height and even height times 3.2 or 4.8 depending on 720p or 1080i source.

Using any combination of the above I get numbers ranging from 6.5 feet to 12.6.

I would think the above references would be different for DLP's/D-ILA than LCD's due to SDE.

I'm waiting for the 55"XS because I am sitting 9' away. I think 60" will be just a bit too big for me. 60"x2=120" / 12 = 10' optimal viewing distance.

Originally posted by mimason

Using any combination of the above I get numbers ranging from 6.5 feet to 12.6.

I would think the above references would be different for DLP's/D-ILA than LCD's due to SDE. [/B]

If you download the TV's manual from Sonystyle, there is a chart of recommened viewing distances by GWIV size. Might as well get a number right from the horse's mouth.

My 60XS955 is in the 8-9' range and I find it perfect. This is going from a 34" CRT that we've had for years.

The first couple days there was a "holy crap, that's big" feeling but I've never regretted the decision for a minute. After all the whole point behind a big screen TV is for it to be BIG.

HD sources are, of course, beautiful at this distance. SD varies in quality from one channel/program to the next, but I don't think having the set 2 or 4 feet further away would reduce the SDE in a meaningful way. Actually I only notice it if I'm looking for it, so I've stopped looking for it. :)

This is the first post I have made to this forum. I have been an avid reader for many months. I greatly appreciate all the information and tips I have learned from reading all the posts.

I finally made a decision and purchased the KDF-55WF655 two weeks ago from Sears. I am now on my second set. I felt compelled to write after reading the post from jare99.

My first set had two dead red pixels (located near center of screen) and very noticeable trapezoidal issues whenever black bars were displayed in full zoom mode. The bottom of the bars flared out considerably and this was very distracting. I thought perhaps it might be caused by the signal through my HD cable box - but I tried all inputs with 2 DVD players and the bars were distorted even with the DVD players.

Sears picked up this set and delivered a new one and the same problem is evident in this new set. I called and talked to Sony about these geometry issues, and I was told this is not normal, and was given a local Sony authorized technician's phone number. I called and spoke with the tech who advised me not to exchange for another set from the same source as in his opinion it is possible a bad batch of sets could have been received and another set would come from the same warehouse. The serial numbers from both sets were only 11 numbers apart. I am very disappointed with this experience as I did not see these geometry issues on the display sets in the store.

At this point I am considering replacing with KDF-55XS955 but am concerned the same issues may be present with this model. Have there been many geometry issues with the XS models? Any input would be appreciated.

Some folks keep remarking about the excess overscan in these sets...
I have the 42we655, and it has a user menu adjustment for this. I checked it with DVE and in the default position is about 5%. -1 gives about 3% and +1 gives about 7%. This in 16x9 mode progressive scan from my RDR-GX7 player.

I've had my 60XS for about 3 weeks now and do notice the screen door effect occasionally. Can SDE be eliminated through professional calibration?

I read julehp's and jare99's posts and feel that I should post my experiences with my KDF-42WE655...just so others might know what to expect with these sets. Anyway, I'm on my third set right now. The first one had moderate misconvergence issues, so I exchanged it for a set that had moderate color uniformity issues (blue and green blobs in all four corners of the set, extremely noticeable on black letterbox and windowbox bars). I swapped that out for a third set which has better convergence than the first set (but not perfect like the second set) and better color uniformity than the second set (but not perfect like the first set), but this set has minor trapezoidal issues. I think I noticed minor geometry issues on my first two sets, but this third set's windowbox bars are about 1/8"-3/16" fatter on the bottom of the set than the top. Minor problems to be sure, but still noticeable if you look.

At this point I've resigned myself to the fact that I'm just not going to get a perfect set. I've definitely worn out my welcome at Best Buy because all issues I've seen on these sets they've described as "normal," and to be honest, at this point I'm inclined to agree. I'm disappointed that I'm going to have to live with minor problems, but it seems that just might be the nature of the beast. *Sigh...*

HI all, Newbi here, looking to make my first purchase and was pretty much sold on the sammy hlp 6163, until this past weekend. I saw it side by side in a store with a sony kdf60wf655 lcd and to be quite honest, the sony was brighter and had crisper color ( the blue sky was indeed sky blue, while the sammy seemed washed out or faded).

So, my question is, was i just looking at a sammy with an old or less bright bulb (I read the sony has 150w, and i'm aware of all the early production problems with the sammy's light engine and that they've also replaced their bulb and light engines with a better one), or is what I'm seeing just the result of idiots messing up the color settings in the store? I know it's going to look much different in my living room than it does in a super store, but I'm serious, the difference in picture quality was astounding and has me questioning why I should choose the sammy dlp over sony's lcd.

Any help would really be appreciated.

oh, one other thing - they were comparably priced, and the sony has a built in decoder and cable card, so now I'm leaning to the sony side - getting more for the money, you know.

Am I just needlessly second guessing myself - is the difference just brightness?

mike67, I have a Sony KDF-42WE655 (see the post above yours), and during the course of exchanging TVs I actually had the 46" DLP Samsung in my house for one night. IMO the colors on the Samsung were nowhere near as close as to those on my Sony, although I only watched SD material on the Sammy. Plus, the way Samsung built the TV's screen led to some really funky geometry distortion. Not only that, but I was really, really susceptible to the DLP rainbow effect. It didn't take me long to realize that the Sony was better for me than the Samsung. Couple that with the fact that that Samsung was $700 more than the Sony and it didn't include a built-in OTA HD tuner, and the choice was obvious.

Originally posted by cholly29
I've had my 60XS for about 3 weeks now and do notice the screen door effect occasionally. Can SDE be eliminated through professional calibration?

No, SDE is a part of LCD RPTV's, each pixel has a cell border and is a required physical part of the LCD itself. Professional calibration should improve the picture quality, but it will not effect the SDE.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mimason
Is 9-10 ft too close for viewing distance for the 60XS955? Does anyone sit this close? I am going from a 36" set and am concerned about it being too big. I expect delivery Thursday so I still could change my order.

I think it all depends on how much your eyes pick up on the SDE instead of the picture displayed by the TV.

I had a 60" GWIII...was going from a 36" tube. Sitting about 10 feet away, I LOVED the dramatic feel of being taken in by the picture, but all I could see from that distance was the damn SDE. But that was just me. My wife's eyes weren't really picking it up.

I have one stuck pixel (white) which lives about 2 inches from the right side of the screen (55", WF series).

It's only noticeable when the screen is dark but it's driving me crazy-- like a tell-tale pixel.

Will Circuit city swap the set for a new one with me? It's less than 2 weeks old.

Or will I just get used to it? Like I said, it's only noticeable during dark scenes.

Julehp:

I've had my 60xs for 3 weeks now. I've never noticed any kind of geometry issues or color aberrations. I am more than pleased with it's performance.

Originally posted by Dilweegie
I have one stuck pixel (white) which lives about 2 inches from the right side of the screen (55", WF series).

It's only noticeable when the screen is dark but it's driving me crazy-- like a tell-tale pixel.

Will Circuit city swap the set for a new one with me? It's less than 2 weeks old.

Or will I just get used to it? Like I said, it's only noticeable during dark scenes.

How far back is it visible? My guess is that even if you do a swap you might not get an improvement if all you have is one stuck near the edge.

Yup, CC should do a swap for you. If its less than 2 weeks old they have a 30 day return policy for whatever reason....even if its cause you don't want it.

jonesi

Reading the owner's manual for the 55xs955, I noticed that certain features like DRC Mode, DRC Palette and BN Smoother are not available for 480p, 720p and 1080i sources. Given that many people use progressive scan DVD players to upscale 480i to 480p (or greater), these features would be unavailable.

Given these features within the 55xs955, do xs955 owners believe that it is better to send unscaled DVD output (480i) to the xs955 and apply these features, or is it still better to upscale in the DVD player and bypass these features?

Michael

Originally posted by TLVictory
I have run into a strange OTA HDTV hiccup. I was watching WB's HD broadcast of Fellowship of the Ring. First 20 minutes or so was spectacular, when the screen blanked to no signal.

Diagnostics reported locked signal and 92% - 95% signal strength. And oddly, when I switched to another channel and then back, I get about 3 seconds of picture before it blanks again. Other HD channels work fine.



I have the exact same problem with WB all the time. Signal strength = 95 and SNR 29. Should be more than good enough. Are you by any chance watching WB50 out of Washington DC? Just speculation, but possible problems include incompatibilty between WB encoder and Sony's receiver (you'd think this would be sorted out by now), multipath interference, or adjacent channel interference (the signal strength meter shows something on Channel 51, which is ABC out of Baltimore). Probably need to take this to the appropriate Local Info and Reception thread....

I'm on my 2nd KDF55WF655. I exchanged the first one because of geometry issues - tickers near the bottom and top of the screen noticeably slanted up from the left side of the screen to the right.

My 2nd set appears to have the same problem, except it slopes down from the left to the right. The top left side is particularly bad.

I love the picture quality of the set but am pretty disappointed that it appears to be difficult to get one with decent geometry (from my experience and other posts here).

Any of you using the cablecard? Picture better with the Cablecard or the STB?

Thanks

JJDenver,

Have you heard anything on the 60WF yet. Like Jeff I'm waiting for one from UE in Dallas/Ft Worth. Last I heard was before Thanksgiving.



Doug

I love the picture quality of the set but am pretty disappointed that it appears to be difficult to get one with decent geometry (from my experience and other posts here).
Amen, brother! I'm on my third KDF-42WE655 (first one had convergence problems, then color uniformity, now geometry). Mine's got trapezoidal distortion; the side black bars are about 1/8" & 3/16" thicker on the top of the screen than the bottom on the left and right sides, respectively. Of course, I didn't notice this until I went looking for it, but now I can't stop looking at it. I guess it doesn't pay to be anal-retentive!

Are you gonna try for a third?

FWIW, all of my 42" sets had a bit of trapezoidal distortion, but I think this one might be a tad worse. Oh well, I think I'll have to stick with this one -- it's better than the others with respect to convergence and color uniformity, plus, I think I ran Best Buy out of TVs. It seems perfection is elusive with these sets.

Ok, guys, hopefully enough people are on now.
Question, and may be someone can just refer me to existing threat(s).
What, if any, are the advantages of a cable card over a set top box?
I have a KDF 42WE655 and currently get my hd over Adelphia's (cable co.) set top box. And the hd picture is neato (great). However, the way I understand it, I am bypassing the TV's internal hd tuner (and other tuner as well). If I were to use a cable card, I would NOT be bypassing but using the 655's internal hd and other tuner. AND I understand that the 655's tuner is superior to any set top box's tuner (in this case some decent Motorola) tuner. So would it be advisable that I get a cable card and get rid of the Motorola? Would I notice an improved picture quality or would the difference be negligible? I'm paying $9.95 a month for the Motorola--does the cable company charge for the cable card (one-time or monthly)???

Thanks for your input.

Wolfi

I don't have the new Sony I have my eyes on (60XS955), but my understanding is that the picture will improve using the cable card rather than the cable box. I definitely know that the cable card is usually a couple of dollars cheaper per month charge than the box.

Originally posted by Schwa
Are you gonna try for a third?

FWIW, all of my 42" sets had a bit of trapezoidal distortion, but I think this one might be a tad worse. Oh well, I think I'll have to stick with this one -- it's better than the others with respect to convergence and color uniformity, plus, I think I ran Best Buy out of TVs. It seems perfection is elusive with these sets.

The 2nd set I got is worse than the first, so I'm considering it. It's a bit of a pain to keep exchanging these huge sets, but for that much money I don't want to settle for anything. I love the picture quality (HD looks terrific), it's just the geometry on parts of the picture that's driving me batty.

I'm going to call the Sony service center tomorrow just to see what they say.

Does anybody know if there are any geometry tweaks in the service menu for this line of sets? If there are, I'd love to give them a shot.

I have had my 60xs955 for about 3 weeks now and have noticed a couple of things. At first i only had one pixel that was bright on one side and dark on the other. There was also a black spot in the upper middle portion of the scrren that is only noticeable from 5 feet or so. Then Today i noticed a second pixel that is completly out (bright) in the upper right hand corner, not to mention the the black bars on the top are alittle bit off (not as worried as I am for the pixels) Does anyone have any opinions or advice. I know i asked this when i first got my set but now a new pixel is out so i am kind of worried.

Should i exchange it or live with it???

bee01, please post here after you've talked to Sony. AFAIK there's no way to tweak geometry (other than horizontal and vertical position and size) in the service menu.

papaduxx, it's pretty apparent to me that none of these sets are perfect. It's just a matter of what you think you can live with. My first set had a bright blue stuck pixel, but neither of the second two had any. I think that if you can't see the pixels from a normal viewing distance, and if the geometric distortion doesn't bug you, you should keep the set. Chances are that the replacement will be just as bad, if not worse. Limitations of LCD technology I guess.

Wolfi:

I have both the cablecard and the Motorola set top box. I have kept the box (so far) because it has a built-in DVR that can record HD and standard programming. We only use it for that function. For everything else, the cablecard and Sony tuner are used.

The Sony built-in tuner is superior for SD analog and digital cable. For HD content, I cannot tell a difference between the box and the built-in tuner. The only advantages of the STB is the ability to record anything, and the 'channel guide' that shows the name of the program you are watching.

I pay $2.95 for the cablecard and $9.95 for the STB. I don't know how long I will continue both, but the cablecard is definitely here to stay. Other cable systems charge more for the card, some give it free - go figure.

Took delivery yesterday from BB on 60XS955, delivery people were that only (no technical knowledge, but they didn't bang up the furniture at least). Got through at 2AM reconfiguring and rehooking audio/video components. What's so nice about this set is it has eight (!) video inputs, including the 2 HDMIs which are not used yet but which make it vastly more flexible for the future without external switching devices. Set looks beautiful on the stand - a closeout Sony stand bought five months ago made for previous generation GWIII (had to remove plastic feet inserts, which left small holes on top, but it didn't matter because set covers it anyway - matching stand at $800 is ridiculously expensive). Decided not to wait for the 55XS because it makes so little difference on the diagonal as far as fitting into the space available (very tight), but in place it doesn’t look as overwhelming as I feared. Each input has to be adjusted because the default is glaringly bright, softens when you tone it down. SD signals even with good strength and no ghosting are just adequate, but certainly watchable. Haven’t had enough history with HD programs yet to know - not much going on at 2AM. DirecTV signal going directly into one of the video inputs in back via S-connector looks quite good. One complaint: the remote is very sluggish, with a lag time between hitting whatever button and the proper reaction from the set. Is that common? Never experienced that with other Sony components (DSS, DVD, VCR, etc). It’s not fully backlit, which is a shame for this price, but I knew that before buying. It still has a higher quality feel to it than JVC, Toshiba, closer to Panasonic (which is fully backlit). Quick look at “Dralion” DVD was pretty impressive, but even with hookup through component input and set to progressive scan, the limitations of at least this anamorphic DVD were still apparent if we’re to be hypercritical. But this set has enough flexibility of adjustments that the picture can be optimized. Happy so far, and I signed up for the buyer reward program at BB after the fact, and they said it would result in a credit of about $130 for the price paid (before tax), which made the deal even sweeter.

I'll soon have a Sony KDF-60WF655 TV and Comcast cable is coming out to set up a HD capable box and service.
Does anyone know what kind of cables I should be using between the cable box and TV. (does the TV come with cables?)
Also between the TV and DVD player?
I know I'll have one of the new HDMI connection s on the TV. Should I use that? Any idea if the cable box will be ready for it? The DVD?
I see there is a cable that is called HDMI to DVI; should I use something like that?
Do I need to stick with component cables and should I get something expensive like the Monster cables?
Thanks for your help!!!!
Jim

jimmer,

I just got the 42" and Comcast. I live in Sacramento, so your situation may be different. The HD cable box is a Motorola and came with a DVI cable. I bought a DVI-HDMI adapter (being too cheap to buy the DVI-HDMI cable) and it works fine although its large and heavy and tends to slip out of the HDMI tab when I move the TV (lots of moving early on).

If you are in an area with broadcast HD do not hesitate to get an antenna for over the air HD broadcasts. I bought a $20 UHF indoor antenna and it works great! Over the air HD is sharp and clear and the non HD content is much better than the cable feed of the same channels. Might as well take advantage of the built in HD tuner!

Once I get some time, I'll do some tweaks, but overall I am very happy with the set.

Geoman

jimmerpro,

First, you probably don't need expensive Monster cables unless you just can't get reasonably priced cables to work OK.

DVI/HDMI is better in theory, but some people have had trouble seeing any difference between that and component. If you already have component cables you can start with those.

Here is how I plan to connect my own WF once it arrives:

3-way splitter for the cable: cable box, TV (cable RF input) and VCR.
Component cable or DVI/HDMI from cable box to TV.
Component cable from DVD player to TV
S-video cable from VCR to TV

I've heard that the RF input on the TV can give better pictures than the cable box, and you may be able to pick up some HD signals directly off the cable. In any case, having inputs into the TV from all directions gives you a chance to use PIP more freely and also allows you to compare signal quality using various inputs to see which is best.

Don't forget audio connections. If, like me, you plan to turn off the TV speakers and use a receiver with 5.1 capabilities you might need:

Optical cable from the cable box to the receiver. (If this doesn't carry any sound for normal non-HD signals then you will also need L/R stereo cables from the cable box to the receiver.)
Optical cable from TV to the receiver (for HD signals coming in through the RF input).
L/R stereo cables from the TV to the receiver (again, for direct feeds off the cable input). Apparently the optical output on the Sony does not carry audio for anything except HD signals.
L/R stereo cables from the VCR to the receiver.

It's much simpler if you skip the direct RF feed into the TV, but what fun is that! :D

TV is not delivered with cables. Good quality shielded (if possible) cable should be adequate. Best connection with my non-HD DirecTV is with S-video, and there is a noticeable difference in clarity between seeing that through a video input and watching via channel 3. I cannot justify purchasing a new DVD player just for its HDMI connector, since the DVDs are not in HD currently anyway. Do use component connectors, though, to inputs Video 5 or 6 DVD (as labeled on rear of set), and either optical or coaxial digital sound connector to your receiver if it supports it (it's worth the difference in cost to get true Dolby 5.1 or DTS sound).

Originally posted by Schwa
bee01, please post here after you've talked to Sony. AFAIK there's no way to tweak geometry (other than horizontal and vertical position and size) in the service menu.

Sony support was pretty clueless about it ("try unplugging the set and resetting it, switch to standard mode, what's your color temperature setting, blah blah blah"). At the end he gave me another number. Lady there said "most of the sets are like this as far as I know, but it might be something that can be tweaked". She gave me the numbers of a few local service shops. A guy is going to come out Friday afternoon and take a look at it. I'm not too hopeful that he's going to be able to do anything useful other than give me a 2nd opinion (possibly a good return/exchange excuse for BB) and charging Sony for a trip.

UPDATE: Shop called back and said they probably wouldn't be able to do anything (no geometry adjustments possible), so they cancelled the service appointment. He suggested I try twisting the cabinet (push on a corner) to see if that makes a difference.

Shop called back and said they probably wouldn't be able to do anything (no geometry adjustments possible)
Really? I find it extremely hard to believe that there aren't any mechanical geometry adjustments that can be made inside the TV. It seems very unlikely that these things are slapped together at the factory and that none of them require geometry tweaking after that to be "within specs." It seems to me that the optical block could be shimmed or adjusted in some way to bring the geometry back to normal.

Anyway, I called Sony service also (similar experience -- they were clueless with me also) and set up an appointment for a tech to come look at the TV on December 1st. We'll see what he has to say, but I'm not holding out much hope either. Heck, I'll be happy if he tells me that my TV's "within spec," then I can just accept it for what it is and move on.

If there really aren't any geometry adjustments available and "most of them are this way" then it might take forever to find a perfect one! Given that, I expect I'll wind up keeping this one and getting used to it. Oh well...at least my picture is perfectly level, it's just the 1/8" trapezoidal error on each side that's eating away at me!

Are you still planning to keep your set? Remember, you might exchange it and get one with acceptable geometry, but it might have dead pixels, bad convergence, color uniformity issues, or any number of other nitpicky isssues.

bee01 and Schwa,

I've noticed a very slight, about 1/4", upwards slope from left to right and the top and a downward slope at the bottom--a trapezoid effect. I agree that only mechanical adjustments can help on a fixed pixel device. I assume that the lens, a mirror, or the light engine must not be exactly horizontally parallel to the screen or one of the mirrors.

I haven't tried torquing the cabinet. That's not a bad idea actually. These things are plastic and the rear mirror is essentially attached to the back of the case.

I will post my results.

Sean

Originally posted by Krynsky
Just called Magnolia...not on display for another week or so...

Not sure if I'm late but, the BestBuy at Pico and Sawtelle has it on display.

I had geometry problems with my 50we620 and used the torque method to improve the situation. When viewing 2.33:1 movies I noticed my top black bar was wider on the left than on the right (1/4" dif.). The bottom bar was out by about a 1/16" so I was happy with it.

After reading about a Mits (or was it Hitachi?) TV owner that used the torque method to resolve his problem (and after Sony offered up the oh so useful "make sure your TV is level" advise and after umr confirmed there aren't any adjustments for this problem and after getting up some courage) I decided to proceed.

From the front of the TV I grabbed both the upper left and upper right corners. I pulled on one corner while pushing on the other. I had the TV running at the time so I could see the results. I didn't want to be too aggressive so when I found I had reduced the difference to 1/8" I said "good enough". This was over a month ago and so far so good.

If you are still in your 30 day return period (that most retailers offer) then its worth the risk IMO. If not, its a tougher call.

Good Luck.

I posted this earlier and confirmed with CC that some of the KDF55's black bars on widescreen movies are larger about 1/4 inch on the bottom than the top. My bars are equal from side to side. I understand that the horizontal position can be adjusted from the service menu but I have not worked up the nerve to get in to that yet. Geometry issues on many of these new sets seems to be hit and miss. The 3 Panasonic sets I went through in just about a month all had different "geometry issues" so it goes to show you that it's not brand specific.

What ever happened to the good old tilt feature tv's use to have?!?

-Rob

Thanks Joe, it turned out that the BB next to Magnolia in Canoga Park has one on display...unfortunately it's on the second tier of the wall about 8 feet high...doh!

Still trying to find one in the the Valley that is at eye level :)

I've combed this thread and with the exception of Swansong who picked up the Panny S97...no one has mentioned picking up an HDMI DVD Player.

Currently it seems like the Panny and Sony seem to be the best match. Can anyone else give there thoughts impressions if they have purchased one?

There is discussion that a good component dvd player like a Denon 2900,2200 or 2910,3910 sending 480p may provide as good a PQ as HDMI or better. This is due to the high quality analog stage some of the in the Denons(specifically 3910 and 5900) and the fact that whatever signal you send the Sony it has to convert it to 788p. The cleanest path and least conversion should yield the best picture.

Krynsky: I have the Sony HDMI upscaling DVD DVP-NS975V, it was hooked up to my 60XS955 via HDMI and an additional optical link to my Yamaha RX-V2400 Audio Video receiver. In my opinion, the Sony upscale DVD and the XS955 are made for each other.

I'm having a strange problem with my KDF-50WE655... Some background info.: its a week old with a HD-TiVO attached via HDMI (Video 7) and a DVD (Video 5). The last two mornings when I got up and turn the tv on the whole screen had a pink hue. The pink hue stays on the screen until I cycle through all the Video/TV inputs on the remote (Video 7, TV, Video 1, Video 2 and etc.). It doesn't show up on the TV setting or on the Video 5. Is it the LCD, HD-TiVO box, my D* dish, or my OTA? Any thoughts???

thanks

I finally saw the 60XS955 for the first time yesterday. Wow... I was pretty impressed. So impressed that I am considering switching to that over the JVC 61z585 which I am supposed to have delivered on Monday.

How do people feel the Sony compares to the JVC?

One minor problem though... The store I have been dealing with does not seem like they will be carrying the Sony XS line... And they have been so nice and helpful. They even gave me an open box Samsung HLP5663 to tide me over until the JVC came in. What would you do? They do carry the WF(?) Sony line, so perhaps they could special order it? If they can't, I would feel like a complete ass to return the Samsung and completely cancel my sale...

I just read on a TiVO forum that my problem is caused by a HDMI problem on the HD-TiVo box (HR10-250).

Originally posted by PackFan
[
One minor problem though... The store I have been dealing with does not seem like they will be carrying the Sony XS line... And they have been so nice and helpful. They even gave me an open box Samsung HLP5663 to tide me over until the JVC came in. What would you do? They do carry the WF(?) Sony line, so perhaps they could special order it? If they can't, I would feel like a complete ass to return the Samsung and completely cancel my sale... [/B]

The XS has upgraded speakers (which make it a little wider if you have space limitations), and extra HDMI input, a few more bells & whistles (see Sony website and they highlight the differences), but the picture quality on the WF models should be the same. I, too, was initially impressed by the JVC, but with comparison shopping of flexibility of inputs and other concerns posted regarding technical problems with the JVC, I decided the Sony was the way to go. There's obviously not going to be any set in the current (or foreseeable) crop available from the various manufacturers thats won't have some problems, the technology is still evidently too new. But the Sony was a match for any I saw while shopping in picture quality, and though I was leery of buying the 60XS because I thought it might be too overwhelming relative to my room space, it isn't. Watched first movie on it last night, "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon," and the picture was stunning. It's true there are no true blacks, but it isn't bad at shadow detail(this film gave the set a good workout in that regard), and the brighter scenes had terrific depth with no detectable motion artifacts. If you don't have to have the features of the XS model, I think you'd be very happy with the WF version. Just be sure and measure for dimensions so you don't find yourself crowding out space for speakers or other components, and then get the largest set your space and pocketbook will allow.

I have been reading this forum for about a week, and finally decided on the 60XS955. I picked The Sony over a Panny 50" 7UY plasma, a Sammy DLP, and JVC D-ILA. I made Circuit City give me ten percent off there price by matching a Best Buy coupon, and they also through in an Xbox bundle. Overall, it was a very nice price (thirty-six fifty after tax and shipping). It gets delivered tomorrow. I can't wait to hook up the Xbox and Dig. Cable.

1 question... Does anyone recommend I get this set professionally calibrated and setup? or what other methods are people using these days to properly configure the set for best picture / color quality?

Thanks in advance, and I'll post pics when I get it delivered.

-Jeremy

Originally posted by Opus2
JJDenver,

Have you heard anything on the 60WF yet. Like Jeff I'm waiting for one from UE in Dallas/Ft Worth. Last I heard was before Thanksgiving.

Doug

From my sales guy this morning...

There are 4 of the 60WF at the warehouse in Denver now, on their way to people who ordered them. I am 5th on the list :( .

One more is coming to the warehouse tomorrow (mine, I hope), then 3 more on the 15th, followed by another small delivery on the 17th, the 29th, and December 7th.

UE/Soundtrack doesn't stock the 60WF, so all of them that come in are sets that somebody has ordered.

Originally posted by shiftdelete
I have been reading this forum for about a week, and finally decided on the 60XS955. I picked The Sony over a Panny 50" 7UY plasma, a Sammy DLP, and JVC D-ILA. I made Circuit City give me ten percent off there price by matching a Best Buy coupon, and they also through in an Xbox bundle. Overall, it was a very nice price (thirty-six fifty after tax and shipping). It gets delivered tomorrow. I can't wait to hook up the Xbox and Dig. Cable.

1 question... Does anyone recommend I get this set professionally calibrated and setup? or what other methods are people using these days to properly configure the set for best picture / color quality?

Thanks in advance, and I'll post pics when I get it delivered.

-Jeremy

Was that BB coupon only available in the Florida area or was packaged with someother item.

the Best Buy Coupon is a "preferred customer" coupon. They send them every couple months in the mail. I am a reward zone member with them also. The coupon is 10% off any 1 item (there are a few exclusions, but not the Sony GW's.. mostly ipod, fancy washing machines, and a few other things).

Hope that helps.

Ok, that makes sense. Thank you.

Originally posted by jjdenver
From my sales guy this morning...

There are 4 of the 60WF at the warehouse in Denver now, on their way to people who ordered them. I am 5th on the list :( .

One more is coming to the warehouse tomorrow (mine, I hope), then 3 more on the 15th, followed by another small delivery on the 17th, the 29th, and December 7th.

UE/Soundtrack doesn't stock the 60WF, so all of them that come in are sets that somebody has ordered.

Thanks JJDenver. When I went to pick up the Denon 2910 last night, which they had sold to me at their cost supposedly, I inquired about the set. He didn't show anything in Denver but said they were now due the 12th. I'm number 2 on the list and Jeff is number one. Hopefully they will get shipped out to Dallas today or tomorrow so I will get mine sometime next week. Hoping this is finally coming to an end. I ordered the 60WE610 back in July and they could never get any in stock. My order was switched over to the 60WF655 when that showed up in their computers and I've been waiting since then.

Doug

Guys, I'm the proud owner of a 42KDFWE655.
I'm sitting about 78" or 7' from the set.
I love the hd.
But I hate the fact that 4:3 programming shrinks my screen to 34" tops. And when I am watching an older movie with bars at the top and bottom, my "large screen" tv shrinks to an incredible 29".
I didn't buy an LCD rear projection to watch a 29" screen.
The only way to enlarge that screen is, of course, one of the zoom modes, which either distort the picture or, in "Zoom," make the picture grainy and blow it up to the extent that heads are cut off.
I talked my "high end" store, and they are willing to exchange the 42" KDF WE 655 for a 50KDWE610.
Should I go for it?
Will I see SDE at 78" or 7"?
Will the resolution suffer, and how much?
Will the screen be less bright? a lot less?
How about the color intensity/
I talked to Sony customer service, who, as we all know by now, are mostly clueless, but I also talked to a guy at Sony's Pennsylvania factory who had called me re a tuner problem I was having, and he stated the chipsets and optical elements are the same between the 655 and 610 series.
I don't care about the hd tuner, since I use a cable stb, and I don't care about the cable card slot, since each one on this forum cannot tell a difference between internal tuner+cable card vs. stb reception.

I don't want to make a mistake now, because they will certainly not let me return the 50" WE 610.

Thanks guys for your valued input.

Wolfi

Wolfi-

7' seems a little close to me for a 50" set, but that's just my opinion. Others may (and probably will) feel differently. I still don't think SDE would be a problem at that distance though, but if you're concerned, go look at a 50" LCD set on the floor of BB or CC and see for yourself. I don't expect the resolution would suffer nor would the screen be significantly less bright.

If you want a bigger screen than the 42" provides, and you don't care about the internal HD tuner on the 'WE655, and the optics and chipsets are the same between the 'WE610 and the 'WE655 (which I believe is indeed the case), then it seems like a no-brainer to me...get the 50"!

If the optics and chipset are the same, why would the picture presentation be any different? I asked the salesman to put a SD picture on the screen and it filled the screen with some strectching. After hearing your story, I'll have to check that out before i buy one. With a 60" Wega, I could see the SDE at 7' if I looked for it.

Wolfi,

Just curious about the poor quality in Zoom mode.

Did you tweak DRC and BN Smoother to reduce the graininess? These are designed for 480i signals and I wonder if they really help.

As to heads getting cut off, I didn't realize that parts of the picture would get lost when using Zoom on a 4x3 letterboxed movie picture. The manual just says it fills the screen while keeping proportions the same. When in Zoom mode, there is an overscan adjustment that I presume can shrink the picture a bit, and horizontal/vertical position adjustments. Did you try these, and did they not help enough?

jjdenver--IF you have the box (cable or whatever)set at 1080i you WONT be able to use those stretch modes-(on tv setting)-if set at 720p you will but then you also have to stretch the HD stations or youll get the bars-a choice for you to make--try what you prefer--set the box at 1080i for a week--then go to 720p--ill bet youll go back to 1080i--the zoom mode when the box is set at 1080i will work when using dvd and vcr-i find wide zoom the best of the lot--full looks stretched--zoom as you said chops! forget normal lol--wide zoom aint bad tho---good luck

Studranger,

Sounds like a good reason to bypass the STB whenever possible and go with a RG cable feed into the TV.

If 480i and 720p are being converted to 1080i in the STB, then the TV can't do its magic on 480i signals, and 720p is getting converted to 1080i in the STB and then to 788p in the TV. If the STB does a really good job and is very tweakable then it won't matter much, but if the TV has much better electronics then it seems a shame to waste them.

Reading this post was very discouraging when I finally made up my mind to get a 55 or 60 WF. Seems like geometry distortion is common on GWIV and many have stuck pixels from day one.

I was going to order it online to save a few bucks, but exchange or return might be a nightmare if I have any of the issues above. And you can't stop wondering where do all those returned TV go? Back to market as new or refurb? Should I order now to get a new one (instead of potentially getting a refurb) or wait a little for Sony to work out their bugs?

Originally posted by cremona
Should I order now to get a new one (instead of potentially getting a refurb) or wait a little for Sony to work out their bugs?
I would order one rather than get a refurb or one in the store that's been returned. Of course, that doesn't guarantee a bug-free TV, but you have to remember that many people with problems post online.

I understand your frustration. My wife and I have been deciding on a new TV for over 3 years! We haven't liked most of the CRT RPTVs, and the one that we thought was okay, Pioneer Elite 520, cost $5000 in its day. $5000 for okay doesn't cut it.

So, now we have our list down to 2-3 RPTVs, but I keep hearing about the problems like you mentioned. The Sony 55xs955 can have geometry problems and bad pixels. The Hitachi 50vs810 can have green bleed, glare problems, and a difficulty with achieving a true white (based on our auditioning of numerous 50vs810s). All this for TVs that retail for $4000.

Even our "high cost" TV choice, the Panasonic 50PHD7UY plasma (~$5000 online with stand and expansion card), appears to have problems with composite and S-Video sources, and an issue with brightness "blooming" on the black backgrounds.

If it weren't for the fact that our 11 year old 35" tube TV is failing (has been for almost a year), we probably would stick with our old TV.

Michael

What happened to the Auto Wide mode from previous versions of the TV?

What happens if I'm watching a DVD that has mixed content (Movie is 16:9ish but Previews, Documentary, etc is 4:3). I hate DVD's like that, but I have them. Am I manually going to have to change the wide mode?

Thanks,
Evan

Guys, guys. Don't get carried away here.
When I was talking about my 42" shrinking to 34" or even to 29", I was talking about 4:3 content, which is pretty prevalent out there on TNT, TBS, AMC, TCM, USA etc. etc. (I don't have to tell you this).
HD=high definition is perfect. I love it. It's stunning as far as crispness=resolution and color intensity/truth is concerned (watch Desperate Housewives for a kicker).
Don't even think about zoom modes in 1080i/720p--it's a moot subject.
Zoom only comes into play in 4:3 content where you have bars to the left and right and in super wide screen movies like Ben Hur even on top and bottom.
And, yes, I played with overscan (which is really a "fine" adjustment, nothing dramatic), and it did reduce the bars a little bit. HOWEVER, the basic complaint stands, I DID NOT BUY A LARGE AND WIDE SCREEN LCD REAR PROJECTION TO END UP WATCHING MOVIES AT 29" SIZE (GO AHEAD, MEASURE THE DIAGONAL ON SOME OF THOSE WESTERNS YOU ARE WATCHING).
And the only solution, as long as 4:3 is out there (IN FORCE), without sacrificing picture quality, is getting a larger tv.
Can I have a witness, please.
Wolfi

All:

After reading all the comments regarding the new 2005 Sony units I have to relate, clearly and unequivically, that I have not had any issues with my XS unit in any of these areas:

* Fan noise -- very quiet and never distracting.
* Geometry -- seems fine.
* Overscan -- adjustable.
* Screen door -- not noticable if not too close to set.
* Dead pixels -- none.
* Covergence -- no problem.

The picture quality is outstanding from 480p, 720p or 1080i sources. The PQ from 480i sources (like SD) is not crisp and sharp and never will be.

If you have doubts about getting a XS, WF or WE unit I suggest buying from Sears. Why? They have a history of doing almost anything to make the customer happy. They won't hit you with a restocking fee. And, no, I don't work for Sears, I have never worked for Sears and I don't know anyone who works for Sears.

I don't doubt that some folks have had problems, but it is also important to note that many people have not had problems.

My SX set had exceeded my expectations. It sits in a wall niche and when people come over they think it's a plasma set. Halo 2 on the X-Box is to die for on this set.

ddietzel,

How far do you usually sit from the TV? I'm strongly considering this TV...

Agree with ddietzel:

I agree with ddietzel. I've had my 60xs for three weeks. Can only hear the fan when the set turns on or off. No geometry problems, one stuck pixel which I can't find anymore. No SDE or SSE, but I watch from 12+ feet.
I love this set!

Do you guys think I would be able to ignore most SDE and/or SSE if most of my viewing of the 60" were between 10 and 12 feet? I may occasionally be as close as 8 ft...

SD viewed on a 55" or 60" Screen:

No matter how you slice it, SD looks dank compared to HD. The only exception is (on my cable system) that some of the digital channels look very nice, but the analog channels on cable are comparitively nasty.

When I view the OTA digital feed from local broadcasters, the network stuff is better than the same analog feed, whether OTA or cable. BUT -- HD is always better.

You get used to a great picture very quickly when you see a great HD signal in action on a large set. Then when you switch chanels to an average SD analog chanel it's a real slap. If you had nothing to compare the SD signal to, you would probably rave how great it looks on the big screen. Fortunately you have other choices, and most of them make SD look lame.

I was curious as to the cost of bulbs for the XS and WF model. I just found out from Sony that the 132w bulb for the WF and XS model costs $332. Disgusting! A pretty significant increase from the old 100w bulb at $200. Hopefully they can be had for less when the time comes for bulb replacement.

Originally posted by barnabas
I was curious as to the cost of bulbs for the XS and WF model. I just found out from Sony that the 132w bulb for the WF and XS model costs $332. Disgusting! A pretty significant increase from the old 100w bulb at $200. Hopefully they can be had for less when the time comes for bulb replacement.

That's why it's a good thing to spring for the EW's with Sears, BB or CC.

Originally posted by arkid
That's why it's a good thing to spring for the EW's with Sears, BB or CC.

I did get the EW, although prior to buying I swore up and down that I would not get an EW. I have a feeling now that it will pay off, or at least I will come close to breaking even.

Ok, here my isue? I use Hughes HTLD, and it seems 720P is being side bared and 1080P is full anamorphic? any comments? using variable 3 or 720P

I recieved my 60WF655 today; Comcast is coming tomorrow.
I'm going out to buy some cables right now.

I'm getting component cables for the DVD connection.
I noticed in the manual (Toshiba SD-3750 2001) that there is a switch in back (I / P) of the DVD to make it Interlaced or progressive. I don't know what either means.
Any idea what I should have it set to for this TV?
Is my DVD player too old for this TV?

And what is 480i, 720p, and 1080i all mean? I have no idea!
Thanks!
Jim

Jimmerpro:

I have almost the same model DVD player on my new 55" Sony. If you use the three-cable "component video" cables, then use the (P) progressive setting. If you use the standard old single video cable, use the (I) interlaced setting.

Progressive video using component cables is supposed to be superior. Haven't tried the other since I upgraded the TV, so I can't really say.

Jimmerpro,

I would use component cables and try both settings. The 480i might actually be better since the signal will only go through one conversion instead of 2. No matter which you use your tv is going to convert it to 780p, or whatever the Sony's are, I can't remember at this moment. I bought a Denon 2910 to go with my 60WF, if it ever gets here. I'm going to go with the HDMI connection on the Denon.

Is there any truth to the statement that LCD rear projection sets will not last as long as DLP or LCoS RP sets? Is it true that the light and heat will eventually degrade the LCD panels?

Originally posted by PackFan
Is there any truth to the statement that LCD rear projection sets will not last as long as DLP or LCoS RP sets? Is it true that the light and heat will eventually degrade the LCD panels?

There is a thread in this forum called "LCD Browning". Do a search in this forum for "munsell" and you should find it pretty quickly. Lots of discussion there. My take on that thread was that degradation can happen through abuse, but there didn't appear to be any strong evidence that it happens in normal RPTV usage.

Opus2

Read your PM now. Your 60WF IS in!!! Mine'll be delivered tomorrow.

Jeff

Originally posted by PackFan
Is there any truth to the statement that LCD rear projection sets will not last as long as DLP or LCoS RP sets? Is it true that the light and heat will eventually degrade the LCD panels?

I discussed the expected longevity of the various types of sets with the BB salesguy (who I have known casually for several months, so I think he was telling me what he really thought, not trying to sell a particular line), and at least with what the sales staff is either talking about among themselves or being told from other sources, we can expect 15 or so years average service from LCDs and DLPs, 7-10 years for current plasma technology. Frankly, the best picture I've ever seen with a store display was the ABC broadcast recently of "Monsters, Inc." It was a 50" Sony Wega (not even XBR) & was all but 3-D quality! But most plasmas I've seen have fewer rear inputs, they generate a lot of heat (both rear and front), sometimes the stands are $100s extra (this Sony model's was included I was told), and the long term serviceability worried me enough that I couldn't justify twice the cost for what may be half the useful life. Whether his opinion was informed or just secondhand speculation, I don't know. He also said the DLP technology is simpler than LCD, and I have read elsewhere that LCD manufacturing environments must have far greater standards of being contaminant free than that of DLP.

Let's face it, HD technology is still in its relative infancy. Early adopters have to expect from past experience that the prices will come down and technology standards will improve the longer down the road we are. We can already see it to a degree with all forms of sets we're discussing here.
Last year's models on closeout can easily be discounted $1000 or more. You just have to decide the price/benefit ratio and buy when you feel the price is right. Chances are yours won't be the lowest price anyone ever paid, but if it's a reasonable price, and the retail outlet has a fair return policy if you're not happy, make your own call. I have now had the 60XS set long enough to watch two movies. The picture quality was pretty much a function of the source material, and whatever quibbles I may have about lack of strong blacks, etc., are more than made up for by the beautiful pictures and impact of the large screen experience. Fan noise on my set is audible only at initial turn-on, and after set is turned off during cool down period.

Note also BB (probably others) sells a center channel shelf that fits on top of the set with cantilevered arm stabilizers in back that are attached to the set via velcro pads. It takes some adjusting and looks a little odd from the side, but it works, and keeps the center channel speaker from taking up a shelf underneath the set in the stand where space is at a premium.

I can detect no geometrical problems with my set, and it's hard to gauge what percentage of sets from any of the manufacturers may be experiencing problems. Just luck of the draw, but this forum provides much needed insight to help its readers make an informed decision.

We've been auditioning the 60xs955 (want the 55xs955, but no demo units yet) and came up with a couple of questions. Each input has an Vivid, Standard and Pro video mode that can be calibrated independently of each other and each input. I noticed that most of the Advanced Video menu is grayed out unless the Pro mode is selected.

Within the Advanced Video menu under the Pro mode is a White Balance option, which allows the setting of the Gain and Phase for Red, Green, and Blue. If one were to encounter red push in their TV (for example), would this be the menu to adjust for that, provided all one used was the Pro mode for each input? Or is it still advisable to go into the SM and adjust the color decoder entries there? Are these user-set options in the White Balance menu the same or different than what is available in the SM for the color decoder?

Michael

So far so good. While I haven't gone over it with a microscope yet there don't seem to be any showstopper defects. In particular I've got the following observations:

- PQ with good DVDs from a Denon 2900 is all that I had hoped for.

- No bad pixels visible from more than 1 foot from screen

- Analog SD is better than I expected. Not great, but servicable. This is on internal tuner. Cable guy is coming Mon to install CableCard.

- Fan noise inaudible during normal viewing

- No opinion on geometry or overscan yet.. If there is any issue it hasn't jumped out at me.

- Black crush is probably the area that I will focus tweaks on.

- SDE/SSE not visible to me from 7 ft + .

- Good news on the remote control front. I have a Home Theater Master MX-700 and while there is no canned setup for the 60xs955, many discrete codes from other Sony Grand Wegas seem to work, including power and video input selection. I can see building a data file for this is going to be a good project. The supplied remote is a joke though. No power, tiny buttons, etc.

Can anyone suggest optimal video settings for the 42we655 for those of us who are not brave enough to enter the service menu? Which mode, color temp, noise reduction, picture, brightness, color, hue, sharpness, mild mode, cinemotion, DRC, and power saving settings?

My inputs are HD cable with cablecard, 480i DVD (component input), and 480i Relpay PVR (s-video input).

Micheal-you could try pming umr for answers...even though he's said he's not gonna try and tweak a GWIV(unless someone loans him one) he'd probably know easily.
ehlarson-Awesome! I have a mx-700 as well(LOVE IT!!) and can't wait to use it with my future 55XS. I'm gonna wait until after Xmas to purchase based on some hints from a buddy of price drops. Crossing my fingers.

Originally posted by Michael Mohrmann
...Within the Advanced Video menu under the Pro mode is a White Balance option, which allows the setting of the Gain and Phase for Red, Green, and Blue. If one were to encounter red push in their TV (for example), would this be the menu to adjust for that, provided all one used was the Pro mode for each input? Or is it still advisable to go into the SM and adjust the color decoder entries there? Are these user-set options in the White Balance menu the same or different than what is available in the SM for the color decoder?

Michael

Gray scale is what you would adjust with the white balance option. These can be used to accurately display a black and white image. Errors in these settings will effect color images, but that is not red-push.

Color decoder problems should be corrected in the service mode. Red-push is one type of color decoder error. The service mode options for color decoder are different than the gray scale adjustments by definition. They are not the same thing.

Any one with a positive experience installing a cable card in a GWIV?
I had a Bright House tech come out yesterday with one card (SA) and he was unable to activate it. The screen stated "No Host ID" The tech said that the TV needed an upgrade. Contacted Sony and they are not aware of any issues. Contacting a Bright House supervisor on Monday. Thanks.

Originally posted by umr
Gray scale is what you would adjust with the white balance option. These can be used to accurately display a black and white image. Errors in these settings will effect color images, but that is not red-push.

Color decoder problems should be corrected in the service mode. Red-push is one type of color decoder error. The service mode options for color decoder are different than the gray scale adjustments by definition. They are not the same thing.
Thanks for the explanations.

Michael

PackFan:

We sit with our corneas roughly 11 to 11.5 feet (depending on the degree of recline/slouch in the sofa) away from the matte surface of our XS unit. This distance is within that recommended by many home theater enthusiasts; that is, one should sit 2 to 2.5 times the diagonal away from the set. A 60-inch set would mean you should sit 120 inches to 150 inches (roughly 10 to 12.5 feet) back.

From this distance there is no discernable screen door effect whatsoever. To see the screen door we have to get within about 6 feet at 480i (SD). At 480p (DVD) we have to walk up within two feet to see it. At 720p (some X-Box games) I have to shove my face right up into the screen to see it. No HD stations yet.

I was rescheduled for VOOM 11/16 as the Install people didn't get all the parts they needed from VOOM. This is the second time they needed to reschedule for the same reason. I told the representative it may be three strikes and you're out -- don't miss the install date this time and make darn sure you bring any and all extra stuff (even at extra cost) to make sure I get a good signal -- or my associates, Manny and Guido, may pay you a visit.

Back to the XS. It is a great set. SD through Dish Network is acceptable, but not incredible. I will chant and burn incense that VOOM arrives next Tuesday.

Cablecard (again)

I have previously posted a couple of times my experience with a Motorola cablecard in my 55" Sony GWIV.

It works.

It took the cable guy an hour and a call to corporate HQ to have them 'hit' the card to authorize it, but then it was fine. The Sony has a better tuner than the cable box, so the cablecard is an excellent way to go.

Have been trying for the last couple of weeks to get the Cable Card (SA PMK 600) to work with the 60XS955. The set recognizes the card, and the cable guy called in and got the proper authorization. The card recognizes the free content in the HD channels, but cannot recognize any of the subscrtibed services (HBOHD, Discovery HD) or any of the digital channels (including music). The cable guy has been out twice, been on the phone with the front office, and even had the Sony manufacturing plant rep involved. He suspects there is a problem with the initialization string being sernt from Cox, but no luck yet. It works fine with the SA8000HD STB.
Anyone in the Gulf Coast Cox area had any experience?

The cable guy (Comcast) is still not going to be here for a few hours. I've been using the regular box. The pictures on most regular stations are better than I expected. DVDs looks great.
Splitters - I knew there were two options; 5-900MHz & 5-1000MHz; now I found a 5-2300MHz.
The 2300MHz is made by Zenith and says it has maximum bandwidth for perfect picture and sound; it is packaged saying it's for "Digital Cable & Satellite".
What splitter should I use? What are the reasons not to go with the 2300MHz? And why are some 900 and some 1000?
Does brand matter? In the basement where the outside line comes in there is a Regal 5-1000MHz. Up by my new TV I've been using a Regal 5-1000MHz; for VCR and TV.
Any reason to switch to the 5-2300MHz in the basement OR by the TV?
Thanks for any advice - I'm a complete novice.
Jim
P.S.: I purchased a DVI to HDMI for the cable box; I was told by BB that this would work best with the HD Comcast box (Motorola) coming later today. But I still want the to use the spitter for the multipi-picture function and VCR.

Buy the one with the largest bandwidth and from a "known" company. Some of that stuff is junk.

I have the 55WF and decided to try out one of the upconverting DVD players to see if there would be much difference between that and my budget player.
I went with the Denon 1910 as they had a couple of them at GG open boxed for <$200. I also bought a DVI to HDMI cable to hook it up.
I can't give you scientific or technical info but I can tell you what me eyes think they saw.
Firstly I always kind of thought that the tv would do a good enough job of scaling a signal from any old DVD player but after hooking up the 1910 I was pretty much sold. I have the output set at 720P.
The picture is way way smoother & sharper, if that makes any sense? Maybe clearer is the right word.
Diagonal lines are very smooth instead of having some stepping, especially with text.
I've heard there is supposed to be some macroblocking with this player but haven't really watched enough movies yet to spot any.
The player seems a little slow with chapter skipping and loading etc. but I can live with that.
So anyway, if you've been thinking about upgrading your budget DVD player to one of the upconverting ones don't hesitate any longer.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BTW don't reply telling me this should be in the DVD forum, this is aimed towards GWIV or other fixed pixel display owners that are wondering if it's worth upgrading.

Don't know if it's worth buying a new HDMI-output DVD player, but am not averse to the notion. However, what exactly is the macroblocking problem mentioned? Picture through component inputs looks very smooth, so any improvement would be incremental. What visible artifacts might occur with macroblocking that I don't have with component connection?

Originally posted by jimmerpro
Splitters - I knew there were two options; 5-900MHz & 5-1000MHz; now I found a 5-2300MHz.
The 2300MHz is made by Zenith and says it has maximum bandwidth for perfect picture and sound; it is packaged saying it's for "Digital Cable & Satellite".
What splitter should I use? What are the reasons not to go with the 2300MHz? And why are some 900 and some 1000?
Does brand matter? In the basement where the outside line comes in there is a Regal 5-1000MHz. Up by my new TV I've been using a Regal 5-1000MHz; for VCR and TV.
Any reason to switch to the 5-2300MHz in the basement OR by the TV?
Thanks for any advice - I'm a complete novice.
Jim


The 5-1000MHz splitters work fine in my house for cable signals and my cable modem. Maybe satellite needs the expanded bandwidth.

Uncledougie- pretty decent explanation of Macroblocking here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=330006&highlight=macroblocking
halfway down page. The Secrets DVD Shootout has found it in a few players.
Splitters? I use Electroline drop-amp splitters(EDA2800 +4db). Cleans up a bunch.

Originally posted by jimmerpro
...What splitter should I use? What are the reasons not to go with the 2300MHz? And why are some 900 and some 1000?
Does brand matter? In the basement where the outside line comes in there is a Regal 5-1000MHz. Up by my new TV I've been using a Regal 5-1000MHz; for VCR and TV.
Any reason to switch to the 5-2300MHz in the basement OR by the TV?...

Since you are using it in a VHF/UHF application, the bandwidth you are interested in is 50-890 MHz. Unless you have a channel above 69 (most have been moved to lower numbers) 50-700 or so should suffice. 5-50 only aids in cable TV that has 2-way interactive capability (return channels are 5-35 MHz).

Regal makes good units, but I have tested some of their 5-2000 splitters, and they roll off at about 1200. Splitters made for 890 and above only are important for L-band satellite, and are rarely used in a home installation. Don't spend extra for 5-2300, as while it will work, it won't work better. Actually, a splitter with a lower bandpass acts as a natural filter for ingress at those frequencies, so in some cases will actually work better than a wideband one.

Originally posted by uncledougie
Don't know if it's worth buying a new HDMI-output DVD player, but am not averse to the notion. However, what exactly is the macroblocking problem mentioned? Picture through component inputs looks very smooth, so any improvement would be incremental. What visible artifacts might occur with macroblocking that I don't have with component connection?

This is from the DVD benchmark site...
"The unfortunate side of implementing the FLI2301 chip is the presence of the “macroblocking” problem. This manifests itself as blotches of digital noise mainly in backgrounds. This noise is essentially an enhancement of MPEG artifacts that are already inherent in the DVD transfer, but at times grossly exaggerated."

Originally posted by mimason
Is 9-10 ft too close for viewing distance for the 60XS955? Does anyone sit this close? I am going from a 36" set and am concerned about it being too big. I expect delivery Thursday so I still could change my order.

I have seen several formulas to calculate recommended distances like 2 times the screen size, 2 to 3 times the screen height and even height times 3.2 or 4.8 depending on 720p or 1080i source.

Using any combination of the above I get numbers ranging from 6.5 feet to 12.6.

I would think the above references would be different for DLP's/D-ILA than LCD's due to SDE.

The DTV Handbook third edition by Jerry Whitaker (recommended by the NAB for all broadcasting professionals) says that the considerations of the Grand Alliance settled on 3.3 times the picture height for any and all ATSC DTV formats during the period when the standards for DTV in the US were being formulated. That would come to about 88" + a C hair, or about 7' 4+" for a 60XS. These recommendations were not made with DLP or LCD or any other display format in mind, but as recommendations for optimal viewing distance for DTV and as a guideline for set manufacturers. IOW, if you (as a manufacturer) have a defect such as SDE, try to make it imperceptible for the most part to most viewers at that distance.

Sony recommends 7.5' minimum for the 50XS, and 8' for the 60XS, which to me (since that is slightly greater than 3.3 X picture height) implies that they are aware that SDE can be a limiting factor. They went with a 768 pixel (height) rez (instead of a native 720) to make the pixels smaller, and to make SDE less noticeable, which it definitely is compared to previous generations of LCDRP. SDE is a fixed limitation, is basically a function of pixel size vs. viewing distance, and the only other factor is brightness. IOW, it will be more noticeable the brighter the picture is (or the larger the pixels are, or the closer you sit). The lesson there for buyers is to see if you can tolerate SDE at that viewing distance (or your viewing distance if that is fixed by the room you will be viewing in) by sampling or viewing pix with bright areas in them at that distance before settling on LCDRP. Ignore store tweaking, or lack of, since SDE can't be tweaked out.

The brightness factor kind of fits with my perceptions, as I notice SDE only occasionally, but only in the brightest areas of the screen, and for me it certainly wasn't a deal breaker, as were the motion artifacts I seemed to be sensitive to with DLP. I sit about 7.5 ft. from my 60XS (actually closer than Sony recommends and nearly exactly where the ATSC recommends), and I feel that closer would not be better, especially when trying to resolve SD. At 10 ft, SDE is pretty much a non-factor. IOW, the limiting factor for me is not so much SDE as it is the lower rez of SD. But I really have no complaints, and I haven't seen and can't imagine a display being better than this set.

Originally posted by stahlee
....I also have a 60" GWIII and I think the picture is slightly better on it. The GWIV seems to have a bit more SDE which takes away from it...

Since SDE is basically a function of pixel size, I doubt that is possible. I can't imagine them sitting around the boardroom saying "Lets put out a new model with MORE SDE. I know, lets use bigger pixels!" :)

Originally posted by arkid
This is from the DVD benchmark site...
"...“macroblocking” problem. This manifests itself as blotches of digital noise mainly in backgrounds..."


Sorry, but in this instance the "DVD benchmark site" is at worst, absolutely incorrect and at best, confusing. Also, there is no such defect known as "digital noise", which is apparently a catch-all phrase that exists only in the author's imagination. This just goes to show you how credentials sometimes ironically do not validate the correctness of a response. How sad that is.

There are 3 primary defects seen in reproducing compressed or MPEG digital images at the consumer level (other than display-inherent artifacts). They are mosquito noise, quantization error noise, and macroblocking. The explanation above is closer to an explanation of quantization error, which is represented by phase and or level inaccuracies that stem from over-quantization (or more accurately failure to accurately represent normal 8 or 10 bit quantization) and which are usually seen as sharp changes in level where smooth transitions should be expected. A wall representing a field of pastel color with softly fading light from one side to the other will instead show steps of grayscale in place of smooth transitions, for instance, and if the original image contained any analog noise, it will aggravate the effect with "busy" artifacts in such areas, or slight changes of hue, or both, as individual pixels continually make the quantum leap back and forth from level to level. It is usually not a motion artifact, in fact motion tends to mask it quite effectively.

Macroblocking on the other hand is usually strictly a motion artifact, created by bitstarving. MPEG separates the image into blocks of 8x8 pixels, and processes them by virtue of the discrete cosine transfer algorithm in groups of 64x64 pixels, called macroblocks. This is helpful in reducing bit rates partly by creating motion vectors that can help predict what will happen from frame to frame.

When there are plenty of bits and the data stream is not inhibited, all goes well. When the decoder must either wait for tardy bits or some are lost along the way, each of those macroblocks is treated as a separate part of an image, like a mosaic. Actually, the mosaic-like aspect of MPEG is always there, but is normally cleverly stitched together as to be invisible.

When bitstarving occurs, blocks that are updated by virtue of new information are replaced by new blocks, while those that aren't end up remaining on the display longer than they should, with that part of the image frozen for a split second, maybe longer. When properly updating blocks mix with those that are updating late or improperly, the mosaic effect appears and is called macroblocking. Its ugly, but preferable to holding all blocks until they can all update at the same time, which would cause the image to stutter.

Its primarily a motion artifact for two reasons: 1., Motion aggravates bitstarving, meaning the tendency is less with still images. 2., Macroblocking that may occur on a still image is not noticeable, because a properly updated block would be identical to one that updates late, which effectively renders it invisible.

I finally received my 60WF yesterday. Love it, love it!

After having the 52" Mits DLP (sans protective screen) for 3 months, I can tell you the Sony wins hands down IMO. And that's saying allot too because, other than rainbows, the Mits looked very good.

With some minor adjustments, the blacks are just as good as the Mits, no SDE at 9 foot viewing distance, colors are better, no image tilt or geometry problems, and no freaking rainbows.;) And you get a much bigger screen for the same cost. I also think the "look" of the set is much better as well.

If it stays reliable, I'm gonna be one happy boy!:D

Jeff

Oh.. forgot to add.. the fan noise on this set is MUCH less than the Mits. In fact, the Mits made more noise turned OFF than the Sony does when running. At first I was worried that it wasn't running at all. I had to get my head very close to hear it.

Originally posted by TomCat
There are 3 primary defects seen in reproducing compressed or MPEG digital images at the consumer level (other than display-inherent artifacts). They are mosquito noise, quantization error noise, and macroblocking.

A wall representing a field of pastel color with softly fading light from one side to the other will instead show steps of grayscale in place of smooth transitions, for instance, and if the original image contained any analog noise, it will aggravate the effect with "busy" artifacts in such areas, or slight changes of hue, or both, as individual pixels continually make the quantum leap back and forth from level to level. It is usually not a motion artifact, in fact motion tends to mask it quite effectively.


Tomcat, (or anyone who knows) can you please explain/expound on what causes (and can correct) the mosquito noise you mentioned? I just posted a a problem I found while watching Fire in the Sky last night.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=469618

The leaves, grass and tree bark were always "busy" during times when the camera was not moving. Foreground faces/bodies looked fine, but behind them, tree trunks and non-wind-blown-leaves had pixels dancing all over themselves. Not sure if this is normal or something that needs to be fixed. It's very distracting...

Thanks.


UPDATE: I just did a search on Google and found some info. The visual examples given don't seem to reflect my issue. Maybe it's not mosquito noise afterall. Here's the example I found.

http://smarthome.com/images/7842side3big.jpg

http://smarthome.com/7842.html

My onscreen images are sharp around the edges, it's just tiny specks are sparkling or moving within the confines of the images. Even rooftops are active and "busy" when looking at them.

Originally posted by TomCat
A wall representing a field of pastel color with softly fading light from one side to the other will instead show steps of grayscale in place of smooth transitions, for instance, and if the original image contained any analog noise, it will aggravate the effect with "busy" artifacts in such areas, or slight changes of hue, or both, as individual pixels continually make the quantum leap back and forth from level to level.

Thanks for the explanation. This is what I saw last night while watching View from the top. The walls of the girls appartment were doing exactly this.
The picture in general was amazing. The WF looks really incredible and the upconverting player really makes the picture look better.
I'm going to go over to GG in a minute and get the Sony DVP-NS975V and see if the same thing occurs with that movie. If not i'll keep the Sony.
This might be a dumb question but do components from the same manufacturer generally work better together?
Or, maybe the Sony DVD player has the same scaler as the Sony TV and is doing the same thing so it's kind of redundant.

Originally posted by barnabas
I was curious as to the cost of bulbs for the XS and WF model. I just found out from Sony that the 132w bulb for the WF and XS model costs $332. Disgusting! A pretty significant increase from the old 100w bulb at $200. Hopefully they can be had for less when the time comes for bulb replacement.

The bulbs for the WF and XS, still cost $200....http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=XL2200

Works fine for me - I had cox out last week - took the tech about 15 minutes to find the right menu (I could have done it in 15 seconds, but apparently that was his job), make a phone call and all was good to go.

Initially, ESPN-HD and a few other channels were not activated, a call to Cox tech support fixed it while I was on the phone with them, so obviously they are able to send commands to the card, rather than just relying on a preprogrammed channel list.

However, the digital cable channels take significantly longer (10-15 seconds) to tune in and display a picture than OTA channels (3-5) seconds.

By the way, I have the KDF-50WE655

Simple Question -
What color is the plastic around the TV screen on the KDF60WF655?

The sears guy tells me it's silver but all the pictures show it as black.

Help?

It's black. There is some silver plastic on the base of the TV.

Originally posted by Famous Grouse
Works fine for me - I had cox out last week - took the tech about 15 minutes to find the right menu (I could have done it in 15 seconds, but apparently that was his job), make a phone call and all was good to go.

Initially, ESPN-HD and a few other channels were not activated, a call to Cox tech support fixed it while I was on the phone with them, so obviously they are able to send commands to the card, rather than just relying on a preprogrammed channel list.

However, the digital cable channels take significantly longer (10-15 seconds) to tune in and display a picture than OTA channels (3-5) seconds.

Is there a good reason for digital cable channel acquisition to take that long? If that delay is inherent for all digital channels off a cable card it seems to me, customers would be upset. Channel changes should not take that long. Perhaps there's an authentication delay?

Originally posted by UncleCemka
The bulbs for the WF and XS, still cost $200....http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=XL2200

Hope that's true. It says $332 here (you have to select part number search and enter part number A1085447A):

http://servicesales.sel.sony.com/web/productSearch.do

Wonder why the difference in price between the two? The sonystyle link says not available, while the service link says 'in stock'. Hopefully I don't have to worry about it for a few years.

I hope this wasn't asked before, but with a long thread as this it's tough to look through all of it even with a search.

Question:
On the 655 (42" version) can unused inputs be bypassed so you don't have to push the TV/Video button EIGHT times go through a complete a round?

I assume the ATSC tuner when it senses a ATSC signal will switch modes. Can you force the set to be in the ATSC mode all the time? Trying to 'tune in' weak ATSC channels is the reason for the question.

Thanks.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TomCat

[Macroblocking on the other hand is usually strictly a motion artifact, created by bitstarving. MPEG separates the image into blocks of 8x8 pixels, and processes them by virtue of the discrete cosine transfer algorithm in groups of 64x64 pixels, called macroblocks. This is helpful in reducing bit rates partly by creating motion vectors that can help predict what will happen from frame to frame.]

Excellent explanation, TomCat, thanks. I've experienced it a couple of times with OTA broadcasts so far, but not yet DVDs. Questions: does the macroblocking problem appear to be worse or more frequent if the DVD player is connected through the HDMI input? Are different players more prone to this in relation to the TV set they are connected to: e.g., might the Sony DVD player have greater compatibility with the Sony set than a Toshiba DVD player? Is the bitstarving primarily a function of the DVD mastering, and would it occur in the same scenes on the disc or at random in different scenes? Which DVDs are known to have problems? - I know this takes us a little far afield, but everyone who wants to realize the greatest potential for the Sony set will want to make the best decision about ancillary components and connections, as the set has a terrific picture when all aspects of software and hardware are in harmony.

TomCat; would you define "mosquito noise" since you did a fine job with the rest of your post.

Originally posted by videobruce
Question:
On the 655 (42" version) can unused inputs be bypassed so you don't have to push the TV/Video button EIGHT times go through a complete a round?
Yes you can. You would go into the setup menu that allows the user to label the inputs. One of the options is "skip", which means that the skipped input would be bypassed when you press TV/Video. This is described on page 113 of the owner's manual.

Michael

Thanks. How about the searching for a ATSC signal issue?

I just looked at the Sony Style sight and noticed that the pricing on the KDF60WF655 is now $3699. That's down from yesterday's $3999! Which is down from $4099 a few weeks ago. :D

Originally posted by Michael Mohrmann
Yes you can. You would go into the setup menu that allows the user to label the inputs. One of the options is "skip", which means that the skipped input would be bypassed when you press TV/Video. This is described on page 113 of the owner's manual.
Michael

Better yet, buy a decent universal remote and forget that the nasty Sony remote ever existed :)

Got my third KDF55WF655. Can't find anything to nitpick - geometry is much better than the previous sets (still not perfect, but close enough), color convergence is pretty much spot on, and no dead pixels. Looks like a finally got a keeper!

Question:
With the overscan setting set to -1, the AVIA test pattern shows that I have about 3-4% overscan on each edge (will get more precise numbers later). The pixel cropping test shows that at least 20 pixels are being cropped off of the left and right sides, and about 5 or 6 on the top and bottom. When watching a DVD (Shrek 2 on Panasonic S35), it looks like I'm losing a decent amount of picture off of the left and right sides in comparison to my PC LCD monitor (0% overscan, 0 pixels cropped). I realize that most DVD players will crop off a few pixels. Is it worth trying to adjust the amount of overscan? I prefer to see more picture content whenever possible.

Originally posted by bee01
Better yet, buy a decent universal remote and forget that the nasty Sony remote ever existed :)

Does a different remote let you skip directly to the input you want? I didn't know this was possible.

Originally posted by mklaessy
Does a different remote let you skip directly to the input you want? I didn't know this was possible.

I'm using a Harmony remote that skips directly to the appropriate input. Checkout the remotes forum or www.remotecentral.com for more detail.

Bought a KDF-60XS955 two weeks ago, hooked it up to cable and started auto program. TV found all my cable channels and the unencrypted digital channels. Turned off the TV and when I turned the TV on again, TV tuned in to the last channel I was watching, but all the other channels that was programmed in was lost. Ran auto program once again with the same result. Went to Best Buy and had the TV exchanged for a new one. Am on my second KDF-60XS955, ran autoprogram, channels were programmed in, turned it off, turned it back on and had the same result as the last TV!! This TV also forgot all the channels programmed in once I turned it off.
I verified that channel lock is set to OFF. Wondering if I am doing something wrong or if I was just unlucky enough to get two TVs with the exact same problem? Wondering if anyone else has experienced this problem?

Originally posted by TemeculaAl
Bought a KDF-60XS955 two weeks ago, hooked it up to cable and started auto program. TV found all my cable channels and the unencrypted digital channels. Turned off the TV and when I turned the TV on again, TV tuned in to the last channel I was watching, but all the other channels that was programmed in was lost. Ran auto program once again with the same result. Went to Best Buy and had the TV exchanged for a new one. Am on my second KDF-60XS955, ran autoprogram, channels were programmed in, turned it off, turned it back on and had the same result as the last TV!! This TV also forgot all the channels programmed in once I turned it off.
I verified that channel lock is set to OFF. Wondering if I am doing something wrong or if I was just unlucky enough to get two TVs with the exact same problem? Wondering if anyone else has experienced this problem?

Somebody else had this same problem - I think the solution was to call Sony and ask for a service technician to come out and do a firmware update to fix the problem.

Originally posted by mklaessy
Does a different remote let you skip directly to the input you want? I didn't know this was possible.

Yup. I have a Home Theater Master MX-700 that allows you to got directly to 1-7. I don't have a discrete for 8 yet.

Originally posted by technojunkie
I just looked at the Sony Style sight and noticed that the pricing on the KDF60WF655 is now $3699. That's down from yesterday's $3999! Which is down from $4099 a few weeks ago. :D

Whoopeee! I'm on a 30 day price guarantee. Time to start checking the flyers.

OTA HD and PS2 connection

Hello All,

I'd like to utilize my tuner but what kind of antenna should I get? My cable company offers 6 different HD channels but I live in LA and there should be more OTA HD channels available.

I'm having a bit of a problem with PS2 connection, the picture is grainy and I'm very disappointed. I connect the PS2 through the connection in front of the TV, should I make some sort of adjustment to make the picture quality better?

I pulled the trigger tonight on a 55XS955 at Best Buy. Circuit City wouldn't match because BB didn't have it in the store. Its not taking me any longer to get it from the warehouse. Both stores had the 60XS on display. Got a great deal well below MSRP (even below MSRP on the 55WF655). Signed up as Reward Zone member and got $100 in reward points. Delivery is this Friday. Now I need to go buy the Ethan Allen stand and save up for HD DirecTivo. I can't wait.

Chris

Which Ethan Allen stand? I have a maple Ethan Al. coffee table and would love a stand to match it. I won't pay $800 for the Sony stand, but maybe for Ethan

I am trying to post this in the right area, but accidentally started a new thread. I hope this is in the right spot now.

My TV comes today, the cable guy comes Thursday. Can I get a decent picture using my old (digital but not HD) box? What will I get if I hook the cable directly to the TV but don't have the cable card yet? I will be getting the box because we have grown accustomed to the on screen guide. ALso, will the cable guy have the best wire or way of connecting the box to the TV? I think HDMI might be the way to go, but I am not ready to spring for that HDMI wire just yet. I still have to find a good stand and pay for all this!

I know this is basic stuff for most of you, but my old Hitachi CRT is 15 years old so this is new to me. By the way, that old thing still looks pretty good. We ended up opening it to move it for the new TV and saw how dusty it was. We cleaned the lights and it looks so much better now! We had to take out the mirror and the screen and will be cutting the cabinet (heavy mdf with oak veneer-looks like furniture) in half to fit it down the basement. Hopefully it will make it safely!

Will this stand work for my sony kdf55xs? It is a good price at Circuit City.com, I don't think Best Buy carries it. I can't tell what is the ideal height because of the way the SOny stand has the base of the TV recessed. I don't want it to high, but I do want 2 shelves for components.

Tech Craft DLP™ and Flat Panel TV Stand (PTV582)
TV stand: This sleek metal and glass stand holds flat-panel or DLP monitors up to 58''. Tempered glass shelves provide plenty of room for home theater components. Open-concept styling allows for easy wire management.

Dimensions: 20 " x 58" x 20"

Weight capacity: 250 lbs.


Thanks for your advice.

P.S. I don't want to order online due to shipping costs, the return hassles and I WANT IT TODAY!!!!

This the Ethan Allen stand we're getting.

Chris

I really like that. I looked it up on the EA website and it says it is 25" tall. Will that be too high?I hear a lot about the ideal height for viewing but I don't know much about all that. I would ask my hubby about it if Ithought it was a good height. Have you seen it in person? My furniture is a medium maple, but it looks like it would go. They also have one with glass doors don't they? I would need that for my components that are remote control.

Originally posted by Mike_0729
OTA HD and PS2 connection

Hello All,

I'd like to utilize my tuner but what kind of antenna should I get? My cable company offers 6 different HD channels but I live in LA and there should be more OTA HD channels available.

I'm having a bit of a problem with PS2 connection, the picture is grainy and I'm very disappointed. I connect the PS2 through the connection in front of the TV, should I make some sort of adjustment to make the picture quality better?

Hey Mike,

I'm not positive about the PS2, but I've got an X-box hooked up to my XS via the HD component pack and it looks AWESOME. You could try purchasing the component hook ups for the PS2 and see if that helps out at all. If you buy the from a local B&M and they don't work you can just take 'em back, no harm no foul. Also, does PS2 output in only 480i or can it do 480P, 720P or 1080i like the X-box. If it can, then the component should def be the way to go. Otherwise component with some minor tweaking could clean up the graininess. For 480i on my set I think I use the Standard/Normal picture mode instead of Vivid or pro, looks better to me. Also, you should try turning up the BN Smoother. I did a couple things like that for my SD Cable and the pic looks great. Good luck!

Originally posted by TLVictory
I'm using a Harmony remote that skips directly to the appropriate input. Checkout the remotes forum or www.remotecentral.com for more detail.

Ah, yet another reason I wish I would have picked up the Harmony! I bought the Sony RM-3100 a while back, before I really started reading this forum or had even heard of discreet codes, and kind of regret that decision. The remote did everything I wanted it to, but it's so big and you can't really operate it by feel. I don't think it's programmable like the Harmony to go directly to a specific input, either. If someone knows otherwise, please correct me.

Originally posted by cmassa
I pulled the trigger tonight on a 55XS955 at Best Buy. Circuit City wouldn't match because BB didn't have it in the store. Its not taking me any longer to get it from the warehouse. Both stores had the 60XS on display. Got a great deal well below MSRP (even below MSRP on the 55WF655). Signed up as Reward Zone member and got $100 in reward points. Delivery is this Friday. Now I need to go buy the Ethan Allen stand and save up for HD DirecTivo. I can't wait.

Chris

Congrats, you'll love it. I bought the 55XS955 last Friday and had it delivered on Sunday. Let me tell you, it is GORGEOUS! Truly the best picture I've seen on a RPTV, and I've tried out a bunch. SD, HD, DVD and X-Box were all stunning. I thought Blacks were very strong, for an RP LCD, and the color was great. I didn't have any time to run through AVIA or DVE, either, so I only did some minor tweaking on the SD picture and was still blown away. You'll love this set!

Originally posted by cinders
My TV comes today, the cable guy comes Thursday. Can I get a decent picture using my old (digital but not HD) box? What will I get if I hook the cable directly to the TV but don't have the cable card yet? I will be getting the box because we have grown accustomed to the on screen guide. ALso, will the cable guy have the best wire or way of connecting the box to the TV? I think HDMI might be the way to go, but I am not ready to spring for that HDMI wire just yet. I still have to find a good stand and pay for all this!

Cinders, Yes you can hook the TV up using your regular cable box and watch it until your HD is installed, no problem. Also, if you run the cable directly into your TV as well, the Sony's internal tuner might pick up some unscrambled digital and HD channels as well, mine did and it's pretty cool. To split the cable this way, though, I needed a Bi-Directional splitter (allows the two way communication necessary for digital and HD cable boxes). I found a really nice 4-way model with amp at Radio Shack for about $50. I would assume that your cable guy would have the right cables to correctly hook up your HD when it comes. Mine, comcast, came with a pretty good component cable. I traded it out eventually, but it did the trick. I'm not sure if HDMI is necessary, you can judge that for yourself later. I did find a nice DVI-->HDMI cable on RAM for about $40 delivered so it's not the bank-breaker that the Monster is. Good luck!

Cinders,

I plan on removing the metal legs at the bottom which make the stand 19-20" high. With the legs on, it is a bit too tall for me. It comes with both glass and solid door panels.

Chris

I am going to pick up my KDF60WF655 tomorrow but it is supposed to be raining. Can someone tell me what the dimensions of the box are so I can find an appropriate vehicle?

Thanks.

Originally posted by cinders
Will this stand work for my sony kdf55xs? It is a good price at Circuit City.com, I don't think Best Buy carries it. I can't tell what is the ideal height because of the way the SOny stand has the base of the TV recessed. I don't want it to high, but I do want 2 shelves for components.

Tech Craft DLP™ and Flat Panel TV Stand (PTV582)
TV stand: This sleek metal and glass stand holds flat-panel or DLP monitors up to 58''. Tempered glass shelves provide plenty of room for home theater components. Open-concept styling allows for easy wire management.

Dimensions: 20 " x 58" x 20"

Weight capacity: 250 lbs.


Thanks for your advice.

P.S. I don't want to order online due to shipping costs, the return hassles and I WANT IT TODAY!!!!

This is the stand that I'm using for my 55XS:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1060605669796&skuId=5902302&productCategoryId=cat03116&type=product

From my couch, the height is great and the (2) shelves are perfect. I've got my DVD, Center Channel, and HD STB on the top, and my 400 disk CD changer, VCR, X-Box and Receiver on the bottom. It's kind of packed, but overall looks really good and is very functional.

Originally posted by OkieSooner
I am going to pick up my KDF60WF655 tomorrow but it is supposed to be raining. Can someone tell me what the dimensions of the box are so I can find an appropriate vehicle?

You'll need a UHaul van or similiar if you can't use an open pickup -- it's the vertical height that is the problem b/c the units cannot be laid on their side. I couldn't fit the 42" into my 4Runner (I believe the necessary vertical was "36 or "42) -- obviously the "60 would be much larger...

I'd like to utilize my tuner but what kind of antenna should I get? Channel Master 4228

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=421121&highlight=antenna