Originally posted by BillP
Auditor, it may not be the batch, but rather your player/display combo (just based on numerous threads, all the players seem to perform very differently with different displays, thus the 3910 might not exhibit green push on my display buy might on yours).

Do you think that's a little odd? Even though I like the picture that the 3910 produces via component, after much tweaking, I'm still annoyed by the fact that there's green push on my DVI output. Also, annoyed by the btb issue, I wish Denon would hurry with a fix.

Originally posted by Auditor55
Also, annoyed by the btb issue, I wish Denon would hurry with a fix.

I surmise that not all of us can see all three vertical bars in the black level calibration part of DVE? If some can, what is there for Denon to "fix?"

Originally posted by Auditor55
Do you think that's a little odd? Even though I like the picture that the 3910 produces via component, after much tweaking, I'm still annoyed by the fact that there's green push on my DVI output. Also, annoyed by the btb issue, I wish Denon would hurry with a fix.

How long have you had it? I would exchange it for another one rather than hope that Denon will fix something that doesn't seem to be happening on every unit...didn't you say you were going to do that anyway, at one time?

Originally posted by pepar
I surmise that not all of us can see all three vertical bars in the black level calibration part of DVE? If some can, what is there for Denon to "fix?"

With all due respect, it is not "some of us" that is the problem here...

The latest build machines do not pass a BTB signal. This is a 3910 problem and not a connection problem of display problem. The Sept onward units uniformly do not pass a BTB signal. So Denon has altered something in the most recently build 3910 that affects BTB passage. They advertise that the 3910 passes a BTB signal and they should fix it. They say that the issue is under review and a fix is close at hand. Hopefully a firmware upgrade will fix the problem.

Originally posted by mismatched
With all due respect, it is not "some of us" that is the problem here...

The latest build machines do not pass a BTB signal. This is a 3910 problem and not a connection problem of display problem. The Sept onward units uniformly do not pass a BTB signal. So Denon has altered something in the most recently build 3910 that affects BTB passage. They advertise that the 3910 passes a BTB signal and they should fix it. They say that the issue is under review and a fix is close at hand. Hopefully a firmware upgrade will fix the problem.

No disrespect meant. I could/should have phrased that differently. Perhaps I should not "upgrade" to -8?

firmware will not affect your unit!! If it passes BTB now it will after you upgrade. Others have found that the -8 upgrade does not affect BTB one way or another. You are lucky. some Aug builds passed BTb and some do not!

no disrespect meant whatsoever! :)

Originally posted by mismatched
The latest build machines do not pass a BTB signal. This is a 3910 problem and not a connection problem of display problem. The Sept onward units uniformly do not pass a BTB signal. So Denon has altered something in the most recently build 3910 that affects BTB passage. They advertise that the 3910 passes a BTB signal and they should fix it. They say that the issue is under review and a fix is close at hand. Hopefully a firmware upgrade will fix the problem.

Perhaps I should test a more recently built 3910 in my setup. I wonder how I can swing that without buying and then returning one. Since I *know* I get BTB on my 3910 with my Samsung DLP now (I've yet to test it on my new Aquos LCD), plugging in a post-9/2005 3910 would be about as good an A/B test as anyone can make. Two different players on the exact same setup.

Me saying I get BTB on my setup does not mean someone else will get it from the exact same 3910 on some other random display, or a different 3910 on mine.

Rick

Originally posted by mismatched
kaduku

To verify your firmware version:



Thanks mismatched for the information. Looks like I do need an upgrade.

Originally posted by keenan
How long have you had it? I would exchange it for another one rather than hope that Denon will fix something that doesn't seem to be happening on every unit...didn't you say you were going to do that anyway, at one time?

Yes, I exchanged my 3910 tonight for a new one. The green push so far is hardly noticeable. I haven't checked for the btb issue since my new 3910 is also a 09/2004 build date.

Hi everyone,

Below is a response that I received from the Denon distributor in Australia when I queried the green tint.:

Just one thing, the DVD3910 DVI output is ver 1.1. Is your projector 1.1 or 1.0?? as this can cause this problem.

As for the component output looking better, we need to compare “apples with apples” and try another DVI source to confirm the problem.

I am not aware of any adjustments to the DVI in version 9 of the software.

Should you still have issues with the unit I suggest you take it to JLS who can help you with the problem.

Let me know if I can help any further.

Perhaps some of the ISF calibrators can advise further??

J

Originally posted by Auditor55
Yes, I exchanged my 3910 tonight for a new one. The green push so far is hardly noticeable. I haven't checked for the btb issue since my new 3910 is also a 09/2004 build date.

That's great that the new unit has much less green push. I wonder what makes one unit have it more than another (they should have the same exact hardware and software)?

Originally posted by BillP
That's great that the new unit has much less green push. I wonder what makes one unit have it more than another (they should have the same exact hardware and software)?

I'm wondering the same thing, how can two units be noticeably different like that, everything else being equal, it screams of some sort of quality or manufacturing issue. And don't anyone get me wrong, I am not bashing Denon here, but what else can explain that type of thing?

About the hardware and software, maybe they don't, maybe the price increase reflects some hardware change during production or even assembly which might be directly or indirectly related to some of these problems...?

Originally posted by Auditor55
Yes, I exchanged my 3910 tonight for a new one. The green push so far is hardly noticeable. I haven't checked for the btb issue since my new 3910 is also a 09/2004 build date.

My prediction based on the polls conducted here and on Scott Horton's thread is that your 9/04 build will NOT pass BTB. :mad:

Let us know Auditor55!!

mismatched

How much of an upgrade in video/audio quality is the 2910 or 3910 from the 910? Just wondering if it's worth the bucks.
I'm viewing on a Sony XS955 60 inch set.
How786

Originally posted by how786
How much of an upgrade in video/audio quality is the 2910 or 3910 from the 910? Just wondering if it's worth the bucks.
I'm viewing on a Sony XS955 60 inch set.
How786

LOTS of dif from 910 to 3910. Somewhat less from 910 to 2910, but stilll significant. Plus, 2910 and 3910 have many more features than 910. Whether it's worth the bucks to you only you can say.

Originally posted by mismatched
My prediction based on the polls conducted here and on Scott Horton's thread is that your 9/04 build will NOT pass BTB. :mad:

mismatched

In my last conversation with Denon, there will be a fix for the BTB issue available soon and it will not require sending the unit back for a hardware fix. I am actually cautiously optimistic!

So if it won't pass BTB now, it should in the not to distant future ;)

jazzcat "cautiously optimistic"!!!?? :D

I burnt the CD-R according to the instructions and popped it into my 3910. I turned it on and voila! about one minute later after "WRITING," it said "COMPLETE." Here's where I (probably) screwed up. I hadn't read the PDF carefully enough and, instead of hitting the power button to turn it off, pushed the drawer shut. Hey, none of the friggin' buttons worked! :mad:

I did then turn the power off and back on again. I then popped in DVE to check black/white level adjustments. I had some navigation problems, but ignored them and finally got to the appropriate chapter and made the settings. I then put Pirates of the Caribbean in and REALLY had problems. I could skip forward, but could not bypass the trailers by hitting "menu" - the small disc w/red circle/line would appear. Apparently, I missed the setup menu entirely as the movie began to play. I watched it, occasionally rewinding with no problem. When the movie was complete, I tried the beginning again to determine what was wrong. I could not use any controls except "skip" and "fast scan" - navigation would not work. No up, down, left or right. When I finally did get to the DVD setup menu, the ONLY button that worked was "enter." I could not move the "cursor" to audio, chapters or extras. Whenever I would hit one of the nav buttons, the darn little disc & "no" circle appeared.

When I get home tonight, I'll re-run the firmware upgrade CD, this time turning the power off. I hope this corrects my problems . . .

Do you think I should re-initialize also?

I would rerun the firmware and initialize afterwards, as stated in the directions. By the way, there is a warning in the booklet against pushing the drawer closed at any time (it could damage the drawer mechanism).

Originally posted by BillP
I would rerun the firmware and initialize afterwards, as stated in the directions. By the way, there is a warning in the booklet against pushing the drawer closed at any time (it could damage the drawer mechanism).

It only tool a little nudge before it went closed under its own power, a la computer optical drives. Still, it was a Homer moment. DOH!

Originally posted by pepar
It only tool a little nudge before it went closed under its own power, a la computer optical drives. Still, it was a Homer moment. DOH!
Firmware 9 is apparently due out soon anyway.

Originally posted by mismatched
My prediction based on the polls conducted here and on Scott Horton's thread is that your 9/04 build will NOT pass BTB. :mad:

Let us know Auditor55!!

mismatched

I almost certain it does not. However, I will let you know.

Having read through about 30+ pages last night on this thread...Is it possible someone out there can summarize the difference and adv/dis-adv of installing the -8 firmware update over the current -5 firmware? Or better yet should I wait until -9 is out?

Any help would be appreciated.

Details: Silver 3910 w/Aug 2004 build -5 FW

Gus

Originally posted by pepar
LOTS of dif from 910 to 3910. Somewhat less from 910 to 2910, but stilll significant. Plus, 2910 and 3910 have many more features than 910. Whether it's worth the bucks to you only you can say.

Thanks Pepar. I'm more interested in the differences in picture quality and sound. Could you comment of this please?

Best
How786

Originally posted by gsiokis
Having read through about 30+ pages last night on this thread...Is it possible someone out there can summarize the difference and adv/dis-adv of installing the -8 firmware update over the current -5 firmware? Or better yet should I wait until -9 is out?
Gus

There is no downside to installing the new firmware, only upside (nobody has reported a new bug as a result of a firmware upgrade).

I know this is a 3910 thread, but does anyone have any idea on how to add more treble on my 1905 receiver, besides the tone adjustment. I have the treble all the way up and it still sounds a little muffled. It is matched up to the 3910 right now. Will a pre-amp or something help or is it just my ears?

Hi kaduku

Couple of questions:

How are you connected to the 1905? Coaxial digital, toslink or analogue?

Can your speakers reproduce 'treble' well, I mean do they have separate tweeters and drivers?

J

Originally posted by kaduku
I know this is a 3910 thread, but does anyone have any idea on how to add more treble on my 1905 receiver, besides the tone adjustment. I have the treble all the way up and it still sounds a little muffled. It is matched up to the 3910 right now. Will a pre-amp or something help or is it just my ears?

Treble all the way up and it sounds muffled? I'd look for another problem.

Guys,

anyone know how to move to a different "group" when playing DVD-A's???

I bought this DVD-A from aixrecords.com, and it has a DVD-Audio in one side, DVD-video on the other....the DVD-A side is broken into 4 groups ( 2 MLP lossless, 1 DD, 1 Stereo), but when I play, it only plays the first group...If I press "next" it goes to the next song, not next group.

anyone has any ideas?

ssabripo,
You may have to navigat like a DVD- Menu. Is your display on?

Dave

Originally posted by Dave Vaughn
ssabripo,
You may have to navigat like a DVD- Menu. Is your display on?

Dave

yeah, once I have the TV on, I can navigate, but I thought I could use it by not having the TV on.....a la SACD.:confused:

Originally posted by ssabripo
yeah, once I have the TV on, I can navigate, but I thought I could use it by not having the TV on.....a la SACD.:confused:

You can only do so much with the simple display on the player. More complicated menus require a monitor/TV.

Originally posted by J SLAYZ
Hi kaduku

Couple of questions:

How are you connected to the 1905? Coaxial digital, toslink or analogue?

Can your speakers reproduce 'treble' well, I mean do they have separate tweeters and drivers?

J

J SLAYZ,
Toslink and analog (ext in for SACD and DVD-A). It's not exactly muffled, but I just want a little more treble. My speaker system is the Bose Acoustimass 15 cubes (pls no Bose bashing). The sound seems to be better on other sources like my laser disc player. Is there a setting on the 1905 (or 3910) where I can produce more treble?

Originally posted by pepar
You can only do so much with the simple display on the player. More complicated menus require a monitor/TV.

So you mean I have to have the TV on if wanting to play DVD-A's??? :confused:

that's pretty stupid....:mad:

Originally posted by ssabripo
So you mean I have to have the TV on if wanting to play DVD-A's??? :confused:

that's pretty stupid....:mad:

That's true with all DVD-A players, and why I think SACD is the better technology.

Originally posted by ssabripo
So you mean I have to have the TV on if wanting to play DVD-A's??? :confused:

that's pretty stupid....:mad:

Menus with multiple levels and options can't be navigated on a simple display. More options, to me, are better than less. Call it stupid if you like, but I see it as more flexible and therefore better.

If you have an inexpensive, small TV or multimedia computer monitor, you could hook that via s-video to make you choices w/o running the big rig.

As a follow-up to my own "I'm an idiot" post, initializing my 3910 fixed my problems. Should it be re-initialized every time the firmware is upgraded?

and if I just want to listen the the DVDA in "default" mode I have been able to listen to DVDAs without turning on my display just fine.

On the majority of my DVD-A's, if not all, I just put the dvd in and push play and the DVD-A starts and sounds great. Of course if I want to look at the pics that accompany the DVD-A I have to have my monitor on. FYI

Whoa zen and I were "perfectly alligned"!!!! (name that song and group!!)

Originally posted by kaduku
J SLAYZ,
Toslink and analog (ext in for SACD and DVD-A). It's not exactly muffled, but I just want a little more treble. My speaker system is the Bose Acoustimass 15 cubes (pls no Bose bashing). The sound seems to be better on other sources like my laser disc player. Is there a setting on the 1905 (or 3910) where I can produce more treble?

Have you made sure your speakers are all in phase? Out of phase speakers could produce the kind of sound you describe (muffled).

Originally posted by K_Thompson
Have you made sure your speakers are all in phase? Out of phase speakers could produce the kind of sound you describe (muffled).

I'm not in agreement on that. Out of phase speaker pairs cause indistinct imaging at best and, at worst, comb filtering. "Muffled" sounds like a broad frequency deficit.

Rumor has it that SACD through DLINK 2nd on 2910/3910/5910 can be sent to your 3805/4806/5805 etc..

It will be possible with no hardware upgrade. This is strictly a Firmware upgrade that may actually come to fruition some time hopefully in the near future if S*** and P****** would just finally say OK.

Originally posted by mjstonez
Rumor has it that SACD through DLINK 2nd on 2910/3910/5910 can be sent to your 3805/4806/5805 etc..

It will be possible with no hardware upgrade. This is strictly a Firmware upgrade that may actually come to fruition some time hopefully in the near future if S*** and P****** would just finally say OK.

Yup, a "rumor" it is, and all it is...

Originally posted by Zen Traveler
On the majority of my DVD-A's, if not all, I just put the dvd in and push play and the DVD-A starts and sounds great. Of course if I want to look at the pics that accompany the DVD-A I have to have my monitor on. FYI


well, that's not teh case...most of the DVD-A's (at least the few I own) have "groups", which show recordings (usually the same songs, but sometimes different ones as well) in DD, DTS, MLP 5.1 (losless), and PCM 2.0...

so by using "default", you are relegated to using whatever that is (which i assume will be the Dolby Digital version usually)...What if you want to listen to the 2.0 stereo version, or you want to try DTS? You are now down to a)turn your TV on, or b)buy the SACD version if you want to not navigate this way:rolleyes:

Originally posted by ssabripo
well, that's not teh case...most of the DVD-A's (at least the few I own) have "groups", which show recordings (usually the same songs, but sometimes different ones as well) in DD, DTS, MLP 5.1 (losless), and PCM 2.0...

so by using "default", you are relegated to using whatever that is (which i assume will be the Dolby Digital version usually)...What if you want to listen to the 2.0 stereo version, or you want to try DTS? You are now down to a)turn your TV on, or b)buy the SACD version if you want to not navigate this way:rolleyes:

"Relegated to default?" Isn't the default of a DVD-Audio disc the actual DVD-Audio, i.e. the 5.1 MLP? Why would one want to listen to any of the others when this is available? The 2-channel 24/192 if present perhaps, but why DD or DTS? On my non-DVD-A player none of the MLP is even available; all I'm offered is the DD/DTS. But I don' think that's your issue.

Hi everyone, I noticed this the other day:

With your set up menu set to 'AUDIO' put in a DVDA and if you would like to go to group 2 push 'SEARCH MODE' twice then '2'. To go to group 3 push 'SEARCH MODE' twice then '3'.

Hope this helps!

Hi kaduku,

If you need more treble with the 'ext in' input I think that maybe your bose subwoofer may need to be turned down.
Having recently got involved in perfecting my bass response level at a variety of frequencies, I found that I had it set too high.
Now after using test tones and the compensated Radio Shack level meter chart I have MUCH better, balanced sound.

Here is a link to a page with links to these resources. (http://www.snapbug.ws/bfd.htm)

You should have plenty of treble with your bose speakers????

Hope these resources help you set your room up for a flatter response and I bet you'll have more top end and cleaner midrange :)

J

Originally posted by pepar
I'm not in agreement on that. Out of phase speaker pairs cause indistinct imaging at best and, at worst, comb filtering. "Muffled" sounds like a broad frequency deficit.

You could be right, but this has happened to me in the past when I had one speaker out of phase with the rest. I think there was some frequency cancellation or something going on (I'm no expert). In any case, everything was fine after I rewired the one out of phase speaker.

Originally posted by K_Thompson
You could be right, but this has happened to me in the past when I had one speaker out of phase with the rest. I think there was some frequency cancellation or something going on (I'm no expert). In any case, everything was fine after I rewired the one out of phase speaker.

The comb filtering can be heard by moving around the room. At some spots certain frequencies will cancel and others will reinforce (be louder). At another spot they will reverse. At higher frequencies those two "spots" may be mere inches apart. But at any spot, only selected frequencies will be missing, not all the treble. That's why I thought there must be something else afoot.

Originally posted by ssabripo
well, that's not teh case...most of the DVD-A's (at least the few I own) have "groups", which show recordings (usually the same songs, but sometimes different ones as well) in DD, DTS, MLP 5.1 (losless), and PCM 2.0...

so by using "default", you are relegated to using whatever that is (which i assume will be the Dolby Digital version usually)...What if you want to listen to the 2.0 stereo version, or you want to try DTS? You are now down to a)turn your TV on, or b)buy the SACD version if you want to not navigate this way:rolleyes:

All DVD-As have groups. The files that reside in the VIDEO_TS folder, and AUDIO_TS folder, on the disc itself (and perhaps sub-groups within those). Unless you specify otherwise, most DVD players look for files in the AUDIO_TS folder first, and if nothing is there, it moves on to the VIDEO_TS folder (which is where all DVD-Video files live).

You can specify which you'd rather default to in your DVD player's setup. The MLP 5.1/2.0 stuff is in the AUDIO_TS folder, and the DD/DTS stuff is in the VIDEO_TS folder. Usually that's as complicated as it gets for my discs. If I want to switch from 24/192/2.0 to 24/96/5.1, usually the Audio button and an up or down push on the cursor takes care of it for me. But if you want to switch between the MLP options *and* the DD/DTS options, then yes, you'll likely need the menu. I've become pretty adept at doing some of these things without a TV, though. It's a DVD! Menus and options are integral. It would be nice if the 3910 had a DVD-A setup button on the remote like it does for SACD.

And you can't get a DD/DTS track from SACD.

As far as the which is better argument goes, I like DVD-A better because of the added flexibility. SACD has been measured by some to have a greater dynamic range, but unfortunately also a higher noise floor. I'd prefer to know the numbers around the music I'm listening to (24/96, 24/192, 24/48, etc) that I can't get from SACD, and of course, a lower noise floor. But both sound great on my system and I'm not kicking either out of bed (though it appears Sony is!). :)

Rick

Originally posted by kaduku
I know this is a 3910 thread, but does anyone have any idea on how to add more treble on my 1905 receiver, besides the tone adjustment. I have the treble all the way up and it still sounds a little muffled. It is matched up to the 3910 right now. Will a pre-amp or something help or is it just my ears?

Make sure you havent accidently turned on "Midnight Mode" or "Loudness" or any strange mode on your receiver. Sorry I am not familiar with the model!

Originally posted by pepar
"Relegated to default?" Isn't the default of a DVD-Audio disc the actual DVD-Audio, i.e. the 5.1 MLP? Why would one want to listen to any of the others when this is available? The 2-channel 24/192 if present perhaps, but why DD or DTS? On my non-DVD-A player none of the MLP is even available; all I'm offered is the DD/DTS. But I don' think that's your issue.

don't know what the "default" is, but YES, there are reasons to listen to other settings besides the MLP 5.1. For example, when listenting to the aixrecords.com compilations of Mozart, the DTS 'audience" mix has much more depth and completely better acoustic range than the MLP mix. Another example, when listening to Nora Jones, the 2.0 mix is simply much better mastered and more natural than any of the 5.1 mixes.

so Yes, there are plenty of reasons of listening to "other" mixes on the disc.....and the point is, I don't want to have to turn a TV or Display on to figure out what to play... In SACD, you simply click on the remote to go from 5.1 to 2.0 and you are done. simple....easy, and nice.

........not that I am complaining :p

Originally posted by ssabripo
don't know what the "default" is, but YES, there are reasons to listen to other settings besides the MLP 5.1. For example, when listenting to the aixrecords.com compilations of Mozart, the DTS 'audience" mix has much more depth and completely better acoustic range than the MLP mix. Another example, when listening to Nora Jones, the 2.0 mix is simply much better mastered and more natural than any of the 5.1 mixes.

so Yes, there are plenty of reasons of listening to "other" mixes on the disc.....and the point is, I don't want to have to turn a TV or Display on to figure out what to play... In SACD, you simply click on the remote to go from 5.1 to 2.0 and you are done. simple....easy, and nice.

........not that I am complaining :p

Gotcha! Makes sense.
:)

Originally posted by ender21
All DVD-As have groups. would be nice if the 3910 had a DVD-A setup button on the remote like it does for SACD.

Rick

Once the DVD-A disk starts playing you can usually cycle between the various audio types with the Audio button and Up/Dn on the remote.

I have to ask this question to 3910 owners.

Why did you choose the 3910 over the 59avi?


59avi owners are quick to explain why they chose it over the 3910, but you don't read too much about 3910 giving their reasons why they chose the 3910.


My reason was price, I got the 3910 much cheaper than I could get the 59avi.

Originally posted by Auditor55
I have to ask this question to 3910 owners.

Why did you choose the 3910 over the 59avi?


59avi owners are quick to explain why they chose it over the 3910, but you don't read too much about 3910 giving their reasons why they chose the 3910.


My reason was price, I got the 3910 much cheaper than I could get the 59avi.

As this is a 3910 thread and there are no 59avi owners here, I can say that 3910 owners do not need to explain their purchase while 59avi are quick to justify theirs.

:D

For me it was the audio performance. I had them all in my home, The Onkyo, Pio Elite and the Marantz 9500. The 3910 really gets it right in my system. Video all looked the same (good) to me.

Originally posted by pepar
As this is a 3910 thread and there are no 59avi owners here, I can say that 3910 owners do not need to explain their purchase while 59avi are quick to justify theirs.

:D

EXACTLY!!!!

when you buy car X or Y and keep saying it was better than a BMW, it is because the BMW truly is the benchmark and thus you are trying to justify why you bought it instead (think G35 or Audi A4 vs 3-series BMW).

same here....3910 owners for the most part know that overall the 3910 is probably the best Player out there "pound for pound".

oh, and just for your read, here are some threads about my comparos:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4988052#post4988052

and finally, some of the awards won by the 3910, just in case you doubt:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5234344#post5234344

here is Kris deering's response to 59avi vs 3910:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=5007399#post5007399

Originally posted by Auditor55
I have to ask this question to 3910 owners.
Why did you choose the 3910 over the 59avi?


Quite simply, with my NEC HT-1100 projector via DVI, the 3910 had better picture quality than the Pioneer. The 3910 was sharper but just as smooth at the same time, had better blacks and the deinterlacing was better on my test scenes. It also played every type of disk I put in it without a problem, including some in poor condition from the rental store. I found one disk that it skipped on but kept going. When I tried to make a new copy of it in the PC later I found the computer drive couldnt read past a certain point because of a CRC error so it wasnt the players fault.

Straight out of the box it didnt look good for the Denon, it requires patient setup. The Pioneer looks fine straight out of the box and requires very little tweaking to get a good picture. This *may* lead to people making ill informed judgements, who knows. The Pioneer was good but there was nothing outstanding about it to set it apart, it is a 'safe' option if you want to just plug in and get a good picture with no head scratching.

Since making my decision I have seen many "professional" reviews of the 3910 and I dont think I have seen one poor one. This was also born out by the scores on 'secrets' which people usually fawn over. Lets face it, we have no idea of the skills of people on forums. It is easy to sound like you are very knowledgable, but in reality you could not be all that good with setting equipment up or even have good eyesight! There is no accountability.

Its a bit like looking at a film review on IMDB.... there is always someone that says "best movie I have ever seen" and someone saying "worst movie ever". In the end you have to find out for yourself!

Originally posted by Auditor55
I have to ask this question to 3910 owners.

Why did you choose the 3910 over the 59avi?

My reason was price, I got the 3910 much cheaper than I could get the 59avi.
Same exact reason for me, plus I only have a DVI input on my DLP and wanted to go DVI-to-DVI.

Originally posted by ssabripo
same here....3910 owners for the most part know that overall the 3910 is probably the best Player out there "pound for pound".

I'd accept an argument on that from a 2910 owner.

Are there any Denon 3910 owners who are using this DC-DA1 Converter (http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Video/DCDA1.ASP) to watch upconverted 1080i DVDs on a non-DVI HDTV?

ssabripo

Thanks for the run down. I don't own those DVD's but will consider your argument on several other DVD-A/DTS 96/24 that I own. Right now on my DVD-A's the 6 Channel Advanced Resolution mode always plays. I don't need the TV on to Change to 2 Channel. Right now I am completely happy with my 3910.

Originally posted by btiltman
Once the DVD-A disk starts playing you can usually cycle between the various audio types with the Audio button and Up/Dn on the remote.

that works when the DVD is playing as DVD-V mode (one side is DVD-A, one DVD-V)....it wont work when playing DVD-A.



Originally posted by J SLAYZ Hi everyone, I noticed this the other day:

With you set up menu set to 'AUDIO' put in a DVDA and if you would like to go to group 2 push 'SEARCH MODE' then '2'. To go to group 3 push 'SEARCH MODE' then '3'.

Hope this helps!

I am trying that but it doesnt work....I then went to the menus, but the mode button (to change it from Audio to Video) is grayed out, and cannot change it
:confused:

Just want to comment on a few things:

1st, I believe that one of the next few firmware updates WILL allow DL2 to pass the current SACD standard. Denon has pretty much alluded to that, they just hinted that it would be a few months.

2nd, You do NOT have to have your monitor on to listen to DVD-A. Just have your 3910 either set to multichannel or stereo default and thats what plays when you hit PLAY on your remote. At least that's what I do...I hardly ever turn the monitor on. Seems to work with the 15 DVD-A I own.

3rd, I'm using Samsung 507W DLP HDTV with the 3910 via DVI ( the best connect in my opinion, why use HMDI when the music would play through you TV speakers? or why use HDMI to connect to a receiver and then have the receiver then switch the signal to run to the TV, b/c one connect is best. I personally don't see any adavantage of HDMI...but that's just me. One interconnect to the TV, DVI, and One interconnect to the reciever for audio for all formats seems best to me, firewire). Anyway, no green push and DOES pass BTB (currently firmware 7....need to order 8, and will anxiously await 9 with hopes of DL2 passing SACD.

I think I'm done for now. Feel free to comment, I may get back :)

Don't hold your breath for SACD over d-link. It was approved for the new, upcoming 2.0 SACD standard. Maybe next year...

Originally posted by ssabripo
that works when the DVD is playing as DVD-V mode (one side is DVD-A, one DVD-V)....it wont work when playing DVD-A.


Cycling through the Audio selections using the "Audio" + Up/Dn works fine on my 3910. I would have to re-test every DVD-A I own to know for certain, but I don't think I own one where I haven't been able to do it. I have a few AIX discs, I can try them out. They might author theirs in a way that the "Audio" button just doesn't cut it.

Rick

Ummmm,

I know about DL3 being approved for the future SACD 2.0 standard. None of the current Denon equpiment will be able to play the new SACD standard. However, resources have confirmed that DL2 has also been approved for the current SACD standard (1.0). That WILL work with all the current DL2 equipped players with (you guessed it) a firmware update. You can read more about this earlier in the thread. I think the press release was pretty much dissected to death.

I did have a question about firmware updates. Some people have been talking about -9. I currently have -8, but when I go to the US Denon website it says that there is an upgrade available, but it lists it as -8 from January. Is it just listing what I already have or is the -9 just not posted there yet? Thanks.

I believe your confused, SACD 2.0 is not some new special disc. Its a specification, not a format. ALL SACD players will play SACD spec 2.0. BTW, current SACD standard is not 1.0, we're already at 1.3 or higher. ;)

Originally posted by K_Thompson
Have you made sure your speakers are all in phase? Out of phase speakers could produce the kind of sound you describe (muffled).

Can you explain more about phasing and how to do it.

Also I can only get two channels playing SACDs even with multi channel ones (SACD). What is going on here?

If you have any of the 'THX' certified movies (eg Star wars) there are some simple audio phase tests in the THX setup areas. That is a quick and easy way to start with, to do a quick check-up that your speakers are ok. But basically you just want to make sure that your speaker connections are ok. Black to black (-), red to red (+) from the amp to the speaker terminal.

With the SACD question, most SACD's have different 'sections' on them. A normal stereo CD layer, and Stereo Hi-resolution section and a Multi Channel hi-resolution section. You need to make sure that your DVD player is not set on picking up the Stereo section.

With the 3910 there is a button on the front which allows you to scroll through the options for a SACD, which section it will read off. If you want the Multi channel Super Audio, make sure that the 3910 is set on MULTI, not STERO or CD.

Cheers
KJ
(There is a very basic explaination here on phase and other audio/stereo related stuff that may help (http://www.psaudio.com/articles/settingupastereo.asp))

A couple of questions...

First, my 3910 is an August 04 build. IS there any way I can test to see if it passes BTB without a special calibration disc of sorts?

Second, I know a while back, someone posted about the 'noise bug' on SACDs...

Source Direct ON, if the filter is set to 50khz, sounds like a scratchy record. But only at HIGH volumes. (basically, you can only make it out at volumes that, I believe, would be too high for normal human consumption anyways.)

Nonetheless, the noise floor is being raised. I don't use the 50khz filter; and it really, really doesn't seem to happen when the filter is at 100khz.

However, I remember someone here saying that the problem gets "worse" ? That eventually it 'creeps in' to the 100khz mode?

I hope that isn't true.


... Lastly, a little bit that I do know about SACD 2.0. It isn't a different disc format; it's a specification revision. (Like DVD-R 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2.) It isn't a new format, the 2.0 is just Scarlet Book revision 2.0, and it includes a few tweaks on refraction limits, focus limits, and the 'allowance' of third party DSD transports like Denon Link 3.

It's absolutely possible that firmware could make the 3910 SACD 2.0 compliant. (Right now I believe SACD is at 1.3 as far as the Scarlet Book revision goes.)

So, I'm not worried about that; they're likely just trying to implement protocol at this point.

But the '50khz noise filter' issue bothers me, and being on the "borderline" build date, I'd like to see if mine does or doesn't pass BTB.

Not sure how to do that.

Originally posted by michidragon
I'd like to see if mine does or doesn't pass BTB.

Not sure how to do that.

Any DVD that has the THX logo should contain optimisation tests, usually in the Setup section of the menu. It contains a basic test for BTB. I am sure you will have one or can borrow one.

For testing BTB refer to:
http://www.thx.com/mod/products/dvd/brightness.html
(Note click on the examples to enlarge for a better view!)

The index for all the setup routines is:
http://www.thx.com/mod/products/dvd/optimizerIntro.html

Regards,
Bill

interesting.. .Got a THX DVD, but it's got SMPTE and a brightness test, but doesn't look like that. Not sure if anything on there is pluge....

Nevermind; August 2004, and mine -does- pass BTB.... Sight of relief here... must have been right at the cutoff.

Originally posted by michidragon
Second, I know a while back, someone posted about the 'noise bug' on SACDs...

Source Direct ON, if the filter is set to 50khz, sounds like a scratchy record. But only at HIGH volumes. (basically, you can only make it out at volumes that, I believe, would be too high for normal human consumption anyways.)

Nonetheless, the noise floor is being raised. I don't use the 50khz filter; and it really, really doesn't seem to happen when the filter is at 100khz.

However, I remember someone here saying that the problem gets "worse" ? That eventually it 'creeps in' to the 100khz mode?

That was probably me...and I now think that I may have been mistaken on that last point.

Just yesterday, I picked up a brand new replacement for my original 3910S, only to find that it behaves in exactly the same manner: that is, when playing SACDs in Pure Direct mode, the 100KHz filter has a much lower noise floor than the 50KHz filter, and the Front Left/Front Right outputs have a lower noise floor than the 2ch outputs. You don't have to actually play a disc to hear this--just turn on Pure Direct, load up an SACD without pressing play, and turn up the volume: as soon as the Denon detects the disc format and switches over to the DSD circuitry, the noise level jumps. It's entirely possible that this behavior is common to all 3910s, and that I just didn't notice it at first...but once I finally DID notice, the noise became impossible to ignore, and I assumed that my unit was defective. Now, it seems more likely to be a design flaw common to all units.

So I guess that if I ever want to listen to a stereo downmix of a multichannel SACD, I'll either have to turn off Pure Direct and listen to a PCM conversion, or put up with the extra noise from the 2ch outs. No big loss, I suppose--and for normal stereo listening, so long as I do use the FL/FR outputs and the 100K filter setting, I find the Pure Direct SACD quality 100% satifsfactory.

BTW, this new unit has a September 2004 make date, and like my previous unit (October 2004), it will not pass BTB, nor do the V.Pos/H.Pos settings have any effect, even after installing the -09 MR firmware which someone posted a link to upthread. Perhaps -10 will be the magic bullet, whenever it arrives...

--Paul Curtis

Hi everyone,

Whoops, I should have mentioned that you need to push the 'search mode' button on the remote twice then hit the number group you want to change group without the display having to be on.

Can I edit my last post...

I'll give it a go.

J

Originally posted by Paul Curtis
That was probably me...and I now think that I may have been mistaken on that last point.

Thanks, Paul...

And, checking a 3910 at the shop, it seems like this is an endemic problem to the 50khz filter.

It doesn't bother me much since I don't use that filter; I haven't noticed any ill effects from running it at 100khz on the part of my receiver.

As long as it doesn't get worse, i'll live;

It'll be interesting to see what -10 does bring, if we see it; SACD over DL, and pluge pass for everyone else.

Just because it's a hardware issue doesn't mean it -can't- be solved in firmware. Has anyone whose unit does -not- pass BTB gotten a straight answer from Denon about this?

Hello,

Fairly new 3910 owner here. Just wanted to say how informative this thread has been. I do have a hookup question. I'm hooking up my 3910 to my Sony 34'XBR which supports 1080i. I'll also be getting a High-Def box from my cable company Tuesday. On the Sony I have 1 DVI (HDCP) and 1 component connection available.
I can't decide if I should use the DVI input for the 3910 and have the High-Def box use the component input - or should I do it the other way around (3910-->component / HD Box-->DVI). I understand that to have the 3910 do 1080i that it has to use the DVI which sounds great, but I'm concerned that there may be issues with the 3910 @ 1080i - like macro-blocking. Can anybody confirm this for me?
If there's issues with the 3910 @ 1080i, I'm just wondering if I'd be better off just using the component for the 3910 and let it run @ 480p, and then let the HD Box do the DVI.
Any recomendations? BTW, if I use DVI for the High-Def Box I'd have to use an HDMI to DVI cable since the STB only has HDMI out. I'm not sure if that would influence your advice or not. Would that make any difference in the picture quality?

Thanks!

Sully

I have noticed in black areas on my Panasonic 50" and 3910 that i get some strange mackroblock effect, it looks like black dots that move around in the darker areas of the picture.

I have it connected thru the component outputs of the Denon.

I tried switching it from "progressive" to "interlaced" and the effect went away.

Anyone else noticed this?

Shouldn't i be able to run it in progressive mode or is it some other thing i have to adjust to remove this unwanted behaviour?

Yes, that's what i am getting also, however i did 480p and noticed this problem from the component output, switching to 480i and the problem went away.

Using the latest 6609 MR firmware.

This is some serious flaw....

Originally posted by bokes
I bought the Denon for the upscale to 720p feature.
Last night I hooked up a HDMI to DVI cable from the Denon into my Plasma and the picture had major noise and macroblocks against black screen.

Anyone else see this?

I have the same plasma and problem as you do.

I don't really know how to fix it except switching to interlaced mode....

It's really annoying seeing the blocks moving around in darker areas of the picture.....

Originally posted by Osl2004
I am using DVI out to a Panny 50PHD6UY on Auto 1. I have noticed that when the screen has large amounts of black or dark areas that there is a lot of what I can only describe as pixel movement. Its like ligher black blocks dancing around a darker background. It really looks kinda bad. I haven't calibrated my plasma yet...will this get rid of the problem? Could it be me using the DVI cord that came with the Panny DVI blade? Anyone else see these effects? I can see it a lot in movies with a lot of black like Blade 2 and Lord of the Rings.

Originally posted by michidragon
Just because it's a hardware issue doesn't mean it -can't- be solved in firmware. Has anyone whose unit does -not- pass BTB gotten a straight answer from Denon about this?

Denon informed me that the BTB issue will be solved without having to return the unit for a hardware upgrade. Hoping -10 will take care of it.

General question: Will the 3910 play Japanese import XRCD's like Dire Straits Brothers in Arms or Eagles Hell Freezes Over?

You could buy a DVI switcher. Make sure it's a HDCP-compliant model.

Originally posted by Sully72
Hello,

Fairly new 3910 owner here. Just wanted to say how informative this thread has been. I do have a hookup question. I'm hooking up my 3910 to my Sony 34'XBR which supports 1080i. I'll also be getting a High-Def box from my cable company Tuesday. On the Sony I have 1 DVI (HDCP) and 1 component connection available.
I can't decide if I should use the DVI input for the 3910 and have the High-Def box use the component input - or should I do it the other way around (3910-->component / HD Box-->DVI). I understand that to have the 3910 do 1080i that it has to use the DVI which sounds great, but I'm concerned that there may be issues with the 3910 @ 1080i - like macro-blocking. Can anybody confirm this for me?
If there's issues with the 3910 @ 1080i, I'm just wondering if I'd be better off just using the component for the 3910 and let it run @ 480p, and then let the HD Box do the DVI.
Any recomendations? BTW, if I use DVI for the High-Def Box I'd have to use an HDMI to DVI cable since the STB only has HDMI out. I'm not sure if that would influence your advice or not. Would that make any difference in the picture quality?

Thanks!

Sully

For the first time since I've owned my 3910 - about five days! - I popped in a 4:3 DVD (Hell Freezes Over - Eagles). The image was stretched to fit my 16:9 screen. As before in this situation, I picked up mt HS20 remote to change the pj's handling of the signal and found that I could not select any mode that displayed the 4:3 properly. Is there a setting in the menu to correct this?

yes, squeeze mode ;)

Kaduku here again with more questions on the 3910

1) How do I actually set this thing to 480i? I noticed only 480p on the display. Someone said to set to 480p and go to the settings and set the video output to interlaced, but the display still shows 480p.

2) How can I tell if my unit passes BTB?

3) Anyone here matched up a Pioneer Elite THX receiver with the 3910? Any inputs on this receiver?

Thanks in advance :D

Originally posted by Likvid
I have the same plasma and problem as you do.

I don't really know how to fix it except switching to interlaced mode....

It's really annoying seeing the blocks moving around in darker areas of the picture.....

Have you guys been recalibrating the black level of the display (brightness) when switching from 480i to 480p. Likely there is a difference which is why the 480i is darker. Use a test pattern to make sure you care comparing apples to apples.

Anyone know when the new firmware is coming out?

Well, after thinking I was going to be buying an Onkyo SP1000, my local authorized dealer called me up and offered me a Denon 3910 for $1100. I pick it up on Wednesday.
That said, I have some concerns/questions about my setup and would greatly appreciate some help/tips.

Audio Hookups:
1.) The 3910 will be hooked up via the 5.1 analog outputs directly to my pre/pro for multichannel music playback.
2.) The 3910 will be hooked up via the stereo analog outputs directly to my stereo preamp for 2CH music playback like CDs and the stereo mixes on SACDs and DVD-As.
3.) The 3910 will be hooked up via the coax digital output directly to my pre/pro for all DVD movie/concert playback.

I will not be using the HDMI connection at all.

Video Hookups:
1.) The DVI-D output will be connected to a DVI/HDCP to VGA/RGBHV Converter (http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Video/DCDA1.ASP) which will then be connected to my CRT based HDTV via the VGA/RGB input. I will be setting the 3910 to upconvert DVDs to 1080i.
2. I may also hook up the 3910 via a S-Video cable to my HDTV if the 3910's menu is only available via non-HD outputs?

Now for some questions....

- What problems do you see with my setup?
- What settings would I make in order to best use both the MC and the Stereo outputs, when needed, without needing to change the menu settings when I want to use the stereo outputs for playback of a 2 channel mix on an SACD/DVD-A? I do not want to listen to downmixes.
- What video settings should I use considering my hookup?

That's it for now... thank you all very much for your help!!!

Take Care,
merc

Originally posted by pepar
You could buy a DVI switcher. Make sure it's a HDCP-compliant model.

I have an HDCP DVI on the TV.....I'd love to use the DVI on the player for the 1080i, I'm just wondering a couple things:

1) Is the 1080i a noticable improvement over the 480p (I have a Sony 34XBR800 tube tv)
2) Many people have mentioned issues with their player at 1080i - like macro-blocking and such - has this been corrected or does it depend on the tv you're using or anything like that (I ask becuase most seem to be using DLP's, LCD's, or projectors)? Am I better off just using component cables and doing 480p (and thuis leaving the DVI for my cable box)

I need to make a decision and pick up the cabling in another couple hours. :-) Thanks for the help.

Sully

3910 + Mitsxx725 Dlp + HDMI = No signal??

I have the following connectivity from the 3910:

1. HDMI cable directly out to the Mits

2. Component cables out to the Denon 3805 AVR and component cables out from the AVR to the Mits.

I have no problem with Standard or Hi- Def broadcast signals - colors look great. DVD's on the other hand look terrible.

When I check my 3910 set-up under 'HDMI/DVI Select' it shows up as the factory default of 'HDMI/DVI OFF'. I can play DVDs, but the color is terrible. When I try to select 'HDMI Y Cb Cr' or 'HDMI RGB' I only get a blue screen on the mits.

I figure either:

1. I've got a bad HDMI cable.

or

2. I've screwed up the set-up for the 3910 to WD62725.

I'm gonna guess it's number 2 and the Mits just isn't seeing any HDMI signal from the 3910. The Mits menus/owners manual is very poor and I would greatly appreciate it anyone could help walk me through the 'connectivity set-up' to get this right.

I really greatly appreciate any help I can get - my family is killing me for the poor video quality of DVD's - we almost had to turn it off last night viewing the new 'The Incredibles' DVD it was so bad! Greeens look brownish, reds look brownish etc.

I thought I needed to adjust the video output from the 3910 until I noticed that I had the problem with the HDMI settings. On the other hand, even if I'm not getting any HDMI signal and it is all coming into the Mits via component through the 3805, it still shouldn't look this bad I don't think - so what is happening?

Any help is GREATLY APPRECIATED! I know I've just been a Bozo somewhere, and don't mind taking a little humiliation and abuse from the collective to fix it!!:p

Thanks,
Paul

Originally posted by Sully72
I have an HDCP DVI on the TV.....I'd love to use the DVI on the player for the 1080i, I'm just wondering a couple things:

1) Is the 1080i a noticable improvement over the 480p (I have a Sony 34XBR800 tube tv)
2) Many people have mentioned issues with their player at 1080i - like macro-blocking and such - has this been corrected or does it depend on the tv you're using or anything like that (I ask becuase most seem to be using DLP's, LCD's, or projectors)? Am I better off just using component cables and doing 480p (and thuis leaving the DVI for my cable box)

I need to make a decision and pick up the cabling in another couple hours. :-) Thanks for the help.

Sully

The "signal" on DVDs is 480i, so whether to feed a display 480i, 480p, 720p or 1080i is usually determined by which component can do the best job de-interlacing (480i/480p conversion) and upscaling (480/720/1080 conversion). My take on this - others please chime in with your opinions if different - is that both the de-interlacing and upscaling circuitry in the 3910 is better than those in the 34XBR800. I base this strictly on the "generation" of the Sony; the 3910 is, more or less, the latest generation. If your Sony accepts 720p, I'd feed it that signal avoiding any of the reported MB issues. Personally, I've found DVI so superior to component - YMMV - that if it's available, I'm usin' it.

Originally posted by Sully72
Hello,

Fairly new 3910 owner here. Just wanted to say how informative this thread has been. I do have a hookup question. I'm hooking up my 3910 to my Sony 34'XBR which supports 1080i. I'll also be getting a High-Def box from my cable company Tuesday. On the Sony I have 1 DVI (HDCP) and 1 component connection available.
I can't decide if I should use the DVI input for the 3910 and have the High-Def box use the component input - or should I do it the other way around (3910-->component / HD Box-->DVI). I understand that to have the 3910 do 1080i that it has to use the DVI which sounds great, but I'm concerned that there may be issues with the 3910 @ 1080i - like macro-blocking. Can anybody confirm this for me?
If there's issues with the 3910 @ 1080i, I'm just wondering if I'd be better off just using the component for the 3910 and let it run @ 480p, and then let the HD Box do the DVI.
Any recomendations? BTW, if I use DVI for the High-Def Box I'd have to use an HDMI to DVI cable since the STB only has HDMI out. I'm not sure if that would influence your advice or not. Would that make any difference in the picture quality?

Thanks!

Sully

I have exactly that combination and I would suggest the Digital connection from the 3900 and component on the cable box. With a 34" crt the difference between hdmi or dvi and component is barely noticeable if at all, and that way you will have 1080I signals from both devices. I have 0 issues with the 3910 at 1080I.

Allen

Originally posted by Allen
I have exactly that combination and I would suggest the Digital connection from the 3900 and component on the cable box. With a 34" crt the difference between hdmi or dvi and component is barely noticeable if at all, and that way you will have 1080I signals from both devices. I have 0 issues with the 3910 at 1080I.

Allen

Sully72 - This is probably good advice as I'm using a Sony HS20 LCD front projector onto a 92" wide screen . . .

I have noticed in black areas on my Panasonic 50" and 3910 that i get some strange mackroblock effect, it looks like black dots that move around in the darker areas of the picture.

I have it connected thru the component outputs of the Denon.

I tried switching it from "progressive" to "interlaced" and the effect went away.


I have the same plasma and problem as you do.

This is the infamous macroblocking problem that plagued the 5900 when connected to certain displays. It didn't effect all displays, but for some reason with Panasonic plasmas it was very exacerbated. The combo of the Faroudja chip in the 5900/3910 and Panasonic plasmas is just not a good combo. The fact that you say the problem goes away when you output 480i pretty much confirms it. There is a long thread thread about the problem, do a search for 5900 macroblocking. You can also ask or PM Kris Deering about this problem as he is well versed on the issue. IIRC, his recommendation is to not use the two units together.

Originally posted by jazzcat
General question: Will the 3910 play Japanese import XRCD's like Dire Straits Brothers in Arms or Eagles Hell Freezes Over?

Yes, XRCD is still Redbook audio. They sound great BTW..:)

Should I initialize after every firmware upgrade?

Originally posted by keenan
This is the infamous macroblocking problem that plagued the 5900 when connected to certain displays. It didn't effect all displays, but for some reason with Panasonic plasmas it was very exacerbated. The combo of the Faroudja chip in the 5900/3910 and Panasonic plasmas is just not a good combo. The fact that you say the problem goes away when you output 480i pretty much confirms it. There is a long thread thread about the problem, do a search for 5900 macroblocking. You can also ask or PM Kris Deering about this problem as he is well versed on the issue. IIRC, his recommendation is to not use the two units together.

That is so weird. What is a bloke to do after he's spent his hard-earned money on these two otherwise fine pieces of gear? Does anybody know what causes it, or have a workaround?

Originally posted by keenan
Yes, XRCD is still Redbook audio. They sound great BTW..:)

Thanks keenan for the response and for causing me to have to spend more money :cool:

Originally posted by jazzcat
Thanks keenan for the response and for causing me to have to spend more money :cool:

Hey, it's all about the music, money be danged...:p

BTW, that Dire Straits XRCD is fantastic sounding...

Originally posted by pepar
That is so weird. What is a bloke to do after he's spent his hard-earned money on these two otherwise fine pieces of gear? Does anybody know what causes it, or have a workaround?

It has something to do with how the Faroudja chip in the Denon interacts with the electronics in the Panasonic plasmas. Supposedly it was drastically reduced in the 3910 from the levels noticed in the 5900, but not completely eliminated, especially with the Panasonic. One of the calibrator guys can give better specifics, but getting your contrast and brightness settings just right can help the problem.

To date there really has not been any "fix" from Denon, I know that Denon has been discussing the problem with Faroudja, but there has never been a solution offered. This has been going on for at least a year and a half.

There is a workaround but it ain't cheap, it will cost at least as much as the player itself which is going SDI with an outboard scaler such as the DVDO iSCAN.

I don't know what to tell you other than find that macroblocking thread and do some research on what settings may decrease the problem some.

Here's the original thread, it's very long, the bottom line being there is no fix, only ways to reduce it,

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=330006
Denon 5900 macroblocking favor - AVS Forum

Here's a more recent one as well,

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=510268
Since Denon did not Fix 5900 MB Problem - AVS Forum

keenan, I just noticed musicdirect has about 10 pages of XRCD offerings. Haven't been through it all yet.

You have a PM...

This is the first I've heard of XRCD. I googled and found the website. It looks like the CD equivalent of the old Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs strategy of maximizing quality of the entire chain right up to the vinyl. Do these CDs sound a LOT better, or incrementally so and a way to squeeze more life (and $$$) out of a soon-to-be-replaced technology?

This is so unacceptable by Denon, the macroblock effect is really annoying and it's not some minor fault, those who have seen it can agree it's a major design fault, it looks terrible.

Some people suggested adjusting the HUE, moving the HUE to -2 removed some macroblocking, however the picture turns much more blue tint in it so it's unacceptable as well.

How will Denon fix this thing?

Originally posted by keenan
It has something to do with how the Faroudja chip in the Denon interacts with the electronics in the Panasonic plasmas. Supposedly it was drastically reduced in the 3910 from the levels noticed in the 5900, but not completely eliminated, especially with the Panasonic. One of the calibrator guys can give better specifics, but getting your contrast and brightness settings just right can help the problem.

To date there really has not been any "fix" from Denon, I know that Denon has been discussing the problem with Faroudja, but there has never been a solution offered. This has been going on for at least a year and a half.

There is a workaround but it ain't cheap, it will cost at least as much as the player itself which is going SDI with an outboard scaler such as the DVDO iSCAN.

I don't know what to tell you other than find that macroblocking thread and do some research on what settings may decrease the problem some.

Here's the original thread, it's very long, the bottom line being there is no fix, only ways to reduce it,

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=330006
Denon 5900 macroblocking favor - AVS Forum

Here's a more recent one as well,

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=510268
Since Denon did not Fix 5900 MB Problem - AVS Forum

Originally posted by Likvid
This is so unacceptable by Denon, the macroblock effect is really annoying and it's not some minor fault, those who have seen it can agree it's a major design fault, it looks terrible.

Some people suggested adjusting the HUE, moving the HUE to -2 removed some macroblocking, however the picture turns much more blue tint in it so it's unacceptable as well.

How will Denon fix this thing?

Fortunately I haven't seen any macroblocking, If I had seen any, in addition to btb issues and green push, it would have 59avi here I come.

I'm using a Toshiba 57" CRT RPTV. I also must say there is little difference from the 3910 to my 6 year old Yammy that's interlaced only. I bought this darn thing because of the deinterlacer but look slike a DVDO based unit works better. I bought the TV based upon a pix I saw on it using a 2200. This isn't as good.

Originally posted by jazzcat
keenan, I just noticed musicdirect has about 10 pages of XRCD offerings. Haven't been through it all yet.

You have a PM...

Yes, if you order something from them they should be sending you monthly catalogs. There is a ton of music of all the different formats in it. I order quite a bit from them.

Originally posted by Likvid
This is so unacceptable by Denon, the macroblock effect is really annoying and it's not some minor fault, those who have seen it can agree it's a major design fault, it looks terrible.

Some people suggested adjusting the HUE, moving the HUE to -2 removed some macroblocking, however the picture turns much more blue tint in it so it's unacceptable as well.

How will Denon fix this thing?

If it's there, it does look bad.

To their credit they have tried to resolve the problem with Faroudja. You'll note that the recent 5910 uses a completely different chip combination and doesn't suffer from the MB problem.

Realistically, the problem is not that widespread, and if it's there picture adjustments can minimize it and most folks do not even notice it. Sadly, the one display type where it really is bad though is the Panny plasmas.

Originally posted by Auditor55
Fortunately I haven't seen any macroblocking, If I had seen any, in addition to btb issues and green push, it would have 59avi here I come.

You have a Mits 55813 right? The 3910 is supposed to have fixed a major portion of the MB problem. I really don't know how they did it as the 3910 uses the same chip combo as the 5900. I have the same display and with the 5900 I could see it maybe 5-10% of the time, which really isn't that bad. I did however SDI mod the 5900 and when used with an iSCAN HD+, the picture is waaaay better. Not only is the MB gone, but far, far less video noise as well. Expensive route to go though..I did it because I already owned the 5900.

Originally posted by pepar
The "signal" on DVDs is 480i, so whether to feed a display 480i, 480p, 720p or 1080i is usually determined by which component can do the best job de-interlacing (480i/480p conversion) and upscaling (480/720/1080 conversion). My take on this - others please chime in with your opinions if different - is that both the de-interlacing and upscaling circuitry in the 3910 is better than those in the 34XBR800. I base this strictly on the "generation" of the Sony; the 3910 is, more or less, the latest generation. If your Sony accepts 720p, I'd feed it that signal avoiding any of the reported MB issues. Personally, I've found DVI so superior to component - YMMV - that if it's available, I'm usin' it.
I disagree, The XBR800 (analog display device) has two native resolutions, 480P and 1080i. I would hook up the 3910 via component and output 480P. I have always found displaying video sources in their native resolutions gives the best visual quality. Sending a 720P image to that set insures that it will be processed again to 1080i and that doesn't make any sense. Hook up your HD source via DVI if you wish but it still has to be converted back to analog before being displayed.

$0.02

"You have a Mits 55813 right? The 3910 is supposed to have fixed a major portion of the MB problem"


Yes, I have the 55813.:) No macroblocking, can't have anything messing up my black level performance.

Originally posted by Auditor55
"You have a Mits 55813 right? The 3910 is supposed to have fixed a major portion of the MB problem"


Yes, I have the 55813.:) No macroblocking, can't have anything messing up my black level performance.

The 55813 is a great display, especially after being calibrated. I have been wanting a larger display now that I lengthened my room but there really isn't anything with the image quality of a CRT out there, I could with the 65" but that doesn't seem worth it given the small size increase.

Originally posted by Tom Grooms
I disagree, The XBR800 (analog display device) has two native resolutions, 480P and 1080i. I would hook up the 3910 via component and output 480P. I have always found displaying video sources in their native resolutions gives the best visual quality. Sending a 720P image to that set insures that it will be processed again to 1080i and that doesn't make any sense. Hook up your HD source via DVI if you wish but it still has to be converted back to analog before being displayed.

$0.02

Yes, I'm digital to digital. And someone else pointed out no one is likely to see a difference between DVI and component on a 34" screen.

Can anybody offer any ideas on my issue w/ HDMI config from a page or two ago?

Originally posted by Tom Grooms
I disagree, The XBR800 (analog display device) has two native resolutions, 480P and 1080i. I would hook up the 3910 via component and output 480P. I have always found displaying video sources in their native resolutions gives the best visual quality. Sending a 720P image to that set insures that it will be processed again to 1080i and that doesn't make any sense. Hook up your HD source via DVI if you wish but it still has to be converted back to analog before being displayed.

$0.02

Hi...and thanks for all the good info. Just a question base on the native resolution statement - I understand your statement about the Sony having to convert 720p, but since the 3910 will output 1080i, and the Sony accepts 1080i, wouldn't that make sense?
That way I could have the set-top-box running component @ 1080i & the 3910 running DVI @ 1080i. THat would give me both components @ 1080i...wouldn't that be best or am I mssing something?

Sorry for all the ?'s, but I'm pretty new to the 3910, High Def, and DVI.

Thanks!

Originally posted by Tom Grooms
I disagree, The XBR800 (analog display device) has two native resolutions, 480P and 1080i. I would hook up the 3910 via component and output 480P. I have always found displaying video sources in their native resolutions gives the best visual quality. Sending a 720P image to that set insures that it will be processed again to 1080i and that doesn't make any sense. Hook up your HD source via DVI if you wish but it still has to be converted back to analog before being displayed.

$0.02

Hi...and thanks for all the good info. Just a question based on the native resolution statement - I understand your statement about the Sony having to convert 720p, but since the 3910 will output 1080i, and the Sony accepts 1080i, wouldn't it make sense to do that?
That way I could have the set-top-box running component @ 1080i & the 3910 running DVI @ 1080i. That would give me both components @ 1080i...wouldn't that be best or am I missing something?

Sorry for all the ?'s, but I'm pretty new to the 3910, High Def, and DVI.

Thanks!

Never mind . . . some of the guys in the Mits Owners Thread helped me figure out why the TV wasn't recognizing the HDMI link -

UN FREAKING BELIEVABLE!!!!!! The colors are BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!

I have it set to HDMI RGB and took a little of the green tint out using the picture adjust menu options - finally I'm seeing what I was supposed to see!!

I have the sound sent to the Denon 3805 AVR via separates out. What if anything would I use the component outs to now, and why??

Originally posted by Sully72
Hi...and thanks for all the good info. Just a question based on the native resolution statement - I understand your statement about the Sony having to convert 720p, but since the 3910 will output 1080i, and the Sony accepts 1080i, wouldn't it make sense to do that?
That way I could have the set-top-box running component @ 1080i & the 3910 running DVI @ 1080i. That would give me both components @ 1080i...wouldn't that be best or am I missing something?


Make it so. :)

Scaling the source material, in this case 480 to 1080 is never a good idea unless for some reason your display handles 1080 signals better than 480 signals. Scaling introduces artifacts, and a Sony XBR800 cannot fully resolve a 1080i signal, resolution wise.

A quick glance at a resolution test pattern on my 40XBR800 hooked via DVI to my 3910 shows that you lose detail when you scale the DVD image to 1080i, compared to 480p.

Your best bet with a CRT that supports a native 480p scan rate is to output the DVD at 480p, which introduces the fewest scaling errors and presents the material at the source resolution, which is preferable all else being equal. Upscaling is really only desireable when the display device cannot handle the native resolution of the source material well.

Originally posted by uzun
]Your best bet with a CRT that supports a native 480p scan rate is to output the DVD at 480p, which introduces the fewest scaling errors and presents the material at the source resolution, which is preferable all else being equal. Upscaling is really only desireable when the display device cannot handle the native resolution of the source material well. thanks, couldn't have said it better myself :)

Just curious where everyone is getting the -9 firmware upgrade? When I go to the US Denon website and look under upgrades, it says one is available, but lists -8 with a January date. Is it saying that's what I already have or that is what I'm ordering? I already installed the -8 I just want the newest one. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks:)

Can someone tell me the approx. current serial no. of 3910 units being shipped and the most current firmware/ROM's?

Originally posted by uzun
Scaling the source material, in this case 480 to 1080 is never a good idea unless for some reason your display handles 1080 signals better than 480 signals. Scaling introduces artifacts, and a Sony XBR800 cannot fully resolve a 1080i signal, resolution wise.

A quick glance at a resolution test pattern on my 40XBR800 hooked via DVI to my 3910 shows that you lose detail when you scale the DVD image to 1080i, compared to 480p.

Your best bet with a CRT that supports a native 480p scan rate is to output the DVD at 480p, which introduces the fewest scaling errors and presents the material at the source resolution, which is preferable all else being equal. Upscaling is really only desireable when the display device cannot handle the native resolution of the source material well.

Wait a minute; isn't the Sony going to scale a 480p signal? If so, shouldn't the best scaler be used to do the job? And wouldn't that be the 3910?

The Sony's native resolutions are 480p and 1080i. It wont scale a 480p source.

Originally posted by Tom Grooms
The Sony's native resolutions are 480p and 1080i. It wont scale a 480p source.

I guess I'm now more familiar with fixed pixel displays, and perhaps my question is mis-informed by that, but how can a display have two native resolutions?

short answer> Its an analog CRT display. It doesn't paint pixels, it draws scan lines.

Originally posted by Tom Grooms
short answer> Its an analog CRT display. It doesn't paint pixels, it draws scan lines.

Of course! What's the maximum number of lines that it can resolve?

Originally posted by pepar
Of course! What's the maximum number of lines that it can resolve?

That depends on the display, ones that are equipped with 7" guns can usually do in the 900-1100 range, 9" guns can get up to 1300-1400, some manufactures have claimed 1600, but I seriously doubt it. Directview CRTs are a bit less than the 7" RPTVs.

These numbers are not exact, but I think they're fairly close.

Originally posted by FoolintheRain
Just curious where everyone is getting the -9 firmware upgrade? When I go to the US Denon website and look under upgrades, it says one is available, but lists -8 with a January date. Is it saying that's what I already have or that is what I'm ordering? I already installed the -8 I just want the newest one. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks:)


earlier in this thread

www.sickpuppy.me.uk/6609.zip

Originally posted by CraigN
earlier in this thread

www.sickpuppy.me.uk/6609.zip

How is it that this site has the firmware when US Denon's own site doesn't?

I just got my new 3910 connected to my new IR RDC-7.1 via i.LINK and have a question for other i.LINK users. When playing a SACD if I hit the SACD Setup button on the remote to cycle through the choices, my processor doesn't "see" the change. It seems to work ok if I set it while the disc is loading. Is this a 3910 or processor deficiency? Do others have a similar behavior? Thanks!

You need to stop and start the disk in order to see any change with the SACD layers.

The SACD options from MULTI, STEREO and CD will not physically change while the disk is playing. If you do change the setting whilst playing, that change will only be realised once the disk has stopped and re-started again.:)

Cheers
KJ

Originally posted by pepar
How is it that this site has the firmware when US Denon's own site doesn't?

This is not an official firmware, it is the latest multi-region firmware that sombody has made available on the internet!

Originally posted by Tomas L
This is not an official firmware, it is the latest multi-region firmware that sombody has made available on the internet!

Without knowing more about the author/source, why aren't we concerned about malicious code? A miniscule installed base is not a complete deterence to someone with a mischievous streak. After all, there were/are a lot of pissed off RDC-7 owners. Or am I just being paranoid?

I checked remotecentral.com and there aren't any 3910 ccfs for my Pronto 1000 remote. Anyone know where I might find a 3910 ccf? There are other Denon DVD model CCFs on remotecentral. Do any other Denon DVD players share the same or similar remotes? Thanks!

Originally posted by gimp
I checked remotecentral.com and there aren't any 3910 ccfs for my Pronto 1000 remote. Anyone know where I might find a 3910 ccf? There are other Denon DVD model CCFs on remotecentral. Do any other Denon DVD players share the same or similar remotes? Thanks!

I had a 2910. The remotes appear identical.

Originally posted by Paul Curtis
Just yesterday, I picked up a brand new replacement for my original 3910S, only to find that it behaves in exactly the same manner: that is, when playing SACDs in Pure Direct mode, the 100KHz filter has a much lower noise floor than the 50KHz filter, and the Front Left/Front Right outputs have a lower noise floor than the 2ch outputs.
Further to the above: I've just discovered that the extra noise on the 2ch outputs is only present when the multichannel SACD layer is selected. When you're on the stereo layer, the 2ch and FL/FR outputs are identical. So it's perfectly fine to use the 2ch outs--though if you ever want to listen to a stereo downmix of the multichannel layer, you'll probably want to turn off "Source Direct" for the duration. (I keep calling it "Pure Direct," but that's not right...)

--Paul Curtis

I've just discovered that the extra noise on the 2ch outputs is only present when the multichannel SACD layer is selected. When you're on the stereo layer, the 2ch and FL/FR outputs are identical.Good Catch Paul. I was worried that I'd have to give up using the two channel output for connecting to my stereo preamp/headphone setup.

Originally posted by pepar
Without knowing more about the author/source, why aren't we concerned about malicious code?

They do appear to be official releases - just from countries where multi-region is mandatory.

Thanks jazzcat!

Originally posted by jazzcat
I had a 2910. The remotes appear identical.

After a few posts to this and related forums, plowing through the 130+ pages and despite some misgivings about the macro blocking, I went ahead and bought (subject to ability to return if there is macro-blocking) a 3910 for use with my Panasonic plasma ( th 50 px 20 - 2004 consumer model ). I am also using a Lexicon pre-pro and Bel Canto amp.

And everything is working very well. Very well! Makes me paranoid!! I have not seen the macro-blocking on gladiator or other darkish dvds and everything is working fine. I am using the hdmi for video to the panasonic set to 1080i. Audio via co-ax to the lexicon. Do practically all of the other panasonics exhibit the macrob problem and should I have mine recalibrated, or am I just fortunate?

Also, while I took delivery of this unit in the last week, it is an August 2004 build and I just ordered the firmware upgrade. The serial number is
40984006** (the asterisks are my add-on to preserve whatever is worth preserving on anonymity for the unit). I was taken aback at this eight month old date - is that unusual for a new silver unit? The packaging all seemed new and the unit is not supposed to be a return or refurb. ANd it looks new.

So, in summary....

1. Should I be concerned that this unit was built 8 months ago?
2. What am I missing about the macro-blocking.

Thanks

Stereopath - Quite the opposite on the age of your unit. Those 3910 built in August 2004 were the last units that did not have a BTB problem. Your machine is actually MORE desirable than anything built after August.

Congrats - you lucked out.

Dave7 - Thanks for your answer. I sort of got that idea from reading all the posts. But isn't it odd to get an August unit when purchasing it now?

My dealer claims Denon builds them in large groups and that it is not uncommon to get a unit that old. However, I recall reading posts around December to this forum that talked about Christmas season shortages.

So, at least from your thoughts, there are no disadvantages with the older unit, so long as I update the firmware, and maybe a plus.

Thanks.

Stereopath, as long as you update the firmware, there is absolutely no downside (only upside) to the older build date. Regarding MB, it is so display dependent, if you don't see it (I don't see any on my DLP), just sit back and enjoy the view.

Originally posted by stereopath

2. What am I missing about the macro-blocking.


If you are missing the MB, you are not missing a thing!

What is the first month these were built? Mine is June 2004. I am using -6, waiting for the official release of -9.

Originally posted by pepar
If you are missing the MB, you are not missing a thing!

If you don't see it, don't go looking for it....:p

Please don't ask why, because it's a long story. I returned my 3910 to my dealer and exchange it for a Pioneer 59avi. The difference to me was dramatic. IMHO the Pioneer is not in the same league as the 3910. Immediately returned the 59avi and asked for my 3910 back.

I also took everyone's advice to match up a decent receiver with the 3910. I returned the Denon 1905 and purchased a higher end receiver (over $1000). The difference was huge! I am very happy now :D

Originally posted by kaduku
Please don't ask why, because it's a long story. I returned my 3910 to my dealer and exchange it for a Pioneer 59avi. The difference to me was dramatic. IMHO the Pioneer is not in the same league as the 3910. Immediately returned the 59avi and asked for my 3910 back.

Welcome back!

Thanks Pepar, good to be back!!! :D

Now for a question that I asked a few pages ago with still no reply.

How do I know if my unit passes BTB? I have ungraded to firmware 8.

Hey guys: Just checking in. Any news on the firmware update that's supposed to addess the no BTB units? Anybody talk to them [Denon] lately?

Thanks,
Scott

They say "probably" by the end of this month for a new firmware for BTB.

Originally posted by kaduku
How do I know if my unit passes BTB? I have ungraded to firmware 8.
There is a test for it on the DVE calibration DVD.

Originally posted by JBaumgart
What is the first month these were built? Mine is June 2004. I am using -6, waiting for the official release of -9.

June 04 was the first month of production.

Originally posted by kaduku
Thanks Pepar, good to be back!!! :D

Now for a question that I asked a few pages ago with still no reply.

How do I know if my unit passes BTB? I have ungraded to firmware 8.

Video Essentials, Digital Video Essentials and Avia all have setups/tests that enable you to set brightness (black level) and contrast (white level). Those also will show whether or not your unit passes below black signals.

Originally posted by kaduku
Please don't ask why, because it's a long story. I returned my 3910 to my dealer and exchange it for a Pioneer 59avi. The difference to me was dramatic. IMHO the Pioneer is not in the same league as the 3910. Immediately returned the 59avi and asked for my 3910 back.

I also took everyone's advice to match up a decent receiver with the 3910. I returned the Denon 1905 and purchased a higher end receiver (over $1000). The difference was huge! I am very happy now :D

Oh no! you have to go into little more detail, because I've been tempted to exchange my 3910 for the 59avi, the 59avi keeps calling me. What didn't you like about the 59avi?

Originally posted by Auditor55
Oh no! you have to go into little more detail, because I've been tempted to exchange my 3910 for the 59avi, the 59avi keeps calling me. What didn't you like about the 59avi?

Auditor55,
When I first got the 3910, I simply plugged it in and watched several DVDs, from a Superbit to just regular ones and I was very impressed. I was even more impressed once I was able to tweak it a little and set it to work well with my Qualia 006. Great combination!!!!!! I decided to buy the Pioneer 56txi, based on it's reviews, and decided to match it with a Pioneer DVD player (59avi). I thought that the internal scaler on the Q006 would do most of the work and that it wouldn't matter what DVD player I had, as long as I set it to the lowest resolution. I was wrong!!!! I tried all kinds of settings and resolutions and the picture was no where near what the 3910 was producing. Specifically I was seeing a grainy picture. I have concluded that though the internal scaler on the Q006 is good, it's just not as good that the one in the 3910. Now maybe I did not tweak it properly, but remember FIRST IMPRESSIONS.

Originally posted by pepar
Video Essentials, Digital Video Essentials and Avia all have setups/tests that enable you to set brightness (black level) and contrast (white level). Those also will show whether or not your unit passes below black signals.

Yes DVE does have a simple BTB test when doing the brightness section. My understanding is that Avia does not have a straightforward BTB test. Others can correct me if I am wrong (as I am sure they will!! :D)

m

I was waiting for the opportunity to correct you but alas, you are right! Avia does not have a BTB pluge pulse.

Maybe next time :D

Yes DVE does have a simple BTB test when doing the brightness section.So... if you can correctly set the "brightness" of your HDTV using VE, does that mean you have tested for BTB... or is it only with DVE? Is there any other way to determine if your player passes BTB at 1080i?

If you can see all three of the bars in the DVE brightness pattern when you turn up the brightness then you are passing BTB.

If you can see all three of the bars in the DVE brightness pattern when you turn up the brightness then you are passing BTB.How about for VE? I don't have DVE("Digital" Video Essentials). If you can see the bars in VE(the older program), does that mean that your unit passes BTB... or do I need to get DVE?

The original VE has blacker than black. On the pluge pattern if you can see two bars on the left side (one lighter than the background and one darker than the background) you are seeing blacker than black.

Thanks Steve!

I can see both bars if I turn up the brightness, so I guess my setup is fine for BTB. Of course, I calibrated my brightness so that I could only barely not see the bar on the right in accordance with the instructions.

Can I use VE or Avia to test for White Crush?

Avia can. The needle pulses pattern has moving white bars (98 and 96 IRE I believe) in the lower section. If you can see them you aren't clipping white.

Thanks again Steve!!!

Yes, no problem with the needle pulse pattern either... so, I guess my setup is good for BTB and does not crush white. :)

Originally posted by merc
so, I guess my setup is good for BTB and does not crush white. :)

Aren't those two different things?

Aren't those two different things?I sure hope so. :D
I had to use two different tests, from two different programs to determine that I didn't have any problems with either. ;)

The -9 firmware is now available on Denon's website if anyone's interested. It seems to just fix a couple of problems with specific DVD's, it seemed identical to me in my quick tests to -8. The 3910 still fails the film detail test in all resolutions except 1080i. The Denon 1910 passes this test via all outputs at all resolutions, so I was hoping a firmware fix would allow the 3910 to pass at resolutions other than 1080i, but -9 at least functions the same as -8 in this regard.

Originally posted by uzun the film detail test in all resolutions except 1080i. What's this test? I'm not familiar with it but would like to be... Thanks, Scott

It's on the Silicon Optix Benchmark DVD, it tests the players ability to recover from bad edits done with film material. Film Detail test is a misleading title, the test actually determines how well the DVD player can recover from digital editing done on odd frame boundaries, film cadence wise.

The Denon 1910 passes this test fine, as does the Panasonic XP50. The Denon 2910 and 3910 only pass this test in 1080i digital mode, they fail this test at 480p, and 720p regardless of what sort of output you use.

anyone know what else they fixed?

Yahooooo!

Denon 3910 is in the house!!!

HERE (http://www.kgjack.com/p1010677_edited.jpg) you can see the new October 2004 build Denon 3910 sitting on a bar stool, about to challenge the Onkyo SP1000 (in rack looking over the 3910's left shoulder) for its' place in the rack! :D

Guess I'll download and load the version 9 firmware before I do my comparing.... Let the shootout begin!

The instruction sheet says the following are fixed in -9 (presumably over and above -8):

1. Corrects returning to menu after episode index is selected on "The A-Team" disc.

2. Corrects video & sound interruption on PAL version "Star Wars Episode 2" disc.

Installed without any problems.

Paul.

OH CRAP!!!

Hooked up this brand new unit, turned on my balanced power controller, and nada. Pushed front panel power button, and still NADA. Tried power on button and remote.... AND STILL NADA! Unplugged from HTPS-7000 and plugged it directly into wall socket... AND STILL NOTHING. :(

Frantically checked the back of the unit looking for some rear panel on/off switch... there is none.

Am I doing something wrong, or is my new 3910 DOA???

HELP!!!

(I'll wait an hour or so, to hopefully hear from the 3910 experts here on AVS, before I give the local dealer a call to arrange to return this beast, or at least get permission to open the unit up to check the PS fuse.)

Thanks for any and all suggestions you can offer.

You do see there are 2 power buttons? If that big one dosen't turn it on , and the cord has juice, I'd say time to go back...

Yeah... thanks GetGray. I did read the manual before hooking it up, so I knew from that, and from previous experience that the big button only puts the unit into standby, and the little button, takes it in and out of standby.

Just to be sure though... I tried both buttons many, many, many times. :(

This is my 4th Denon DVD player, and only the 1600, which I bought used and still have, worked perfectly.

where can i download latest region free firmware?

Just FYI..

Here are the hookups for my 3910.
- HDMI and S-video.
- Stereo and 5.1 Analog Audio Outputs.
- Coax digital Output.
- Power cord.

That's it.

Good News.... called the dealer and got permission to open up the unit. Opened her up and found a fuse had been dislodged during shipment. Pushed it back in, closed the top, pushed the button, and it fired right up! Yeah BABY! :)

Sorry for bringing my panic to you folks here on AVS! ;)

I'll be sure to let you all know how I think it compares to the Onkyo SP1000.
Stay Tuned!

My new unit, October 2004 build date, has firmware version 5 on it.

I guess I'll upgrade it to version 9 before I test it out.

Originally posted by uzun
The -9 firmware is now available on Denon's website if anyone's interested. It seems to just fix a couple of problems with specific DVD's, it seemed identical to me in my quick tests to -8. The 3910 still fails the film detail test in all resolutions except 1080i. The Denon 1910 passes this test via all outputs at all resolutions, so I was hoping a firmware fix would allow the 3910 to pass at resolutions other than 1080i, but -9 at least functions the same as -8 in this regard.

What a HUGE disappointment that it FwV-9 doesn't fix the btb issue. I guess Denon doesn't plan on addressing it.:(

Let's not jump to conclusion too hastily. If DENON is anything like other software companies, there is a good level of testing which would be done before releasing a new version of firmware.

Paul.

Horror of horrors: It may be a hardware issue and not be fixable in software. Those that pass below black do so irregardless of firmware . . .

Eeek... without recalibrating my display.. I can easily tell that the 3910's video is much different than the previous Onkyo unit.

As for settings, since I am using the HDMI output at 1080i and converting it to an RGBHV signal using an HDCP compatible converter... should I set the 3910 on interlaced (for 1080i?) or progressive?

Stay Tuned....

Originally posted by merc
Good News.... called the dealer and got permission to open up the unit. Opened her up and found a fuse had been dislodged during shipment. Pushed it back in, closed the top, pushed the button, and it fired right up! Yeah BABY! :)



My guess would be that it was not inserted correctly originally as the unit would have to have taken a hell of a whack to dislodge the fuse.

After calibrating with both Avia and VE, the unit passes BTB and has no white crush. according to the calibration DVDs.... at HDMI out, 1080i YCbCr settings, interlaced video output, converted by a DVI-D to RGBHV converter and connected to my HDTV via the VGA/RGBHV input, which ONLY accepts a 1080i signal.

It looks good but I still need to somehow compensate for my HDTV's slight green push via this input....?

Next up... audio.

Keenan,

That's my guess as well, although I can't imagine that these units aren't tested before being boxed up for shipment? It wasn't easy pushiing the fuse fully into the socket either...?

Works now though... :)

Originally posted by merc
After calibrating with both Avia and VE, the unit passes BTB and has no white crush. according to the calibration DVDs.... at HDMI out, 1080i YCbCr settings, interlaced video output, converted by a DVI-D to RGBHV converter and connected to my HDTV via the VGA/RGBHV input, which ONLY accepts a 1080i signal.

It looks good but I still need to somehow compensate for my HDTV's slight green push via this input....?

Next up... audio.

Merc,

I would also encourage you to try the following in your setup:

1. make sure you have HDMI enhanced black OFF
2. Make sure you use IRE 0 (in picture adjust, Set, IRE)
3. Use one of the Picture Adjust (M1-M5), and set the following:
a) Chroma +3
b) DNR +4
4. Use this in conjunction to your brightness/contrast settings when you calibrate with DVE or AVIA
5. Make sure you have your video progressive in AUTO2

you will see a much better and smoother PQ, with better colors..... ;) Then you can compare it to the Sp1000

With nothing major of note that was repaired in -9, I think I will stick with what I have in -8....unless I hear of other "bonus" fixes

ssabripo,
Didn´t Kris Deering recomend Auto1 for NTSC DVD´s and Auto2 for PAL?
And why use the DNR? I don´t see any difference with it on or off, doesn´t reduce any compression artifacts or noise that I can see.. so I just left it off, as often these NR produce motion artifacts.

I´m interested in knowing how the vertical/horizontal enhancers work with HDMI(10 bit) and other displays than single chip DLP. With DVI and single chippers the banding becomes very bad with only one click on vertical enhancer(the menu in vanilla sky was a nice example.. or the sky in the beginning of ice age).

Keyser,

I am using the Auto1 settings for NTSC DVDS and the same for Pal too... since I have no Pal DVDs but.... I also am using the OFF settings for all video stuff like DNR and Black level and everything else.

Should I turn these on first and them calibrate my system???

NO!!! All calibrations should be done with you display. Only as a last resort should you use the DVD player controls.

Dave

Hey guys:

I've got a question on aspect detection. I've confirmed the source is the 3910 as I've checked 3 different projectors playing 1:1 pixel mapping / native modes.

When playing a 4:3 format disc, the 3910 stretches it to fit my 16:9 display. It does not recognize the DVD flag telling it the correct format. This means it scales it too wide, then my (current) PJ has to rescale it back to 4:3 format using it's "window" mode. This is 2 scalings too many. The Marantz S3 I tested wouldn't even allow the un-scaling, since it presumed it was going to get the correct image via DVI. The 3910 ought to recognize the 16x9 flag. Avia is a simple example of a 4:3 disc that gets stretched to 16:9 wide.

I'm almost positive my cheapo Bravo D2 did this just fine (recognized the format and sent the appropriate 4:3 image). My cheapo software player (WinDVD) also recognizes the change and displays properly. But not the high $$ 3910.

I know I can change it with Squeeze mode on and off, but that's a PITA DVD setup change and certaintly not something my family or guests want to mess with (or even understand). I want a player that can handle this detection properly, automatically.

Is there something I have set wrong? Something I can do to make it work?

I am using 720p DVI out.

Thanks for any help or insight.

Scott

GetGray, assuming you set the 3910 outpout to 16:9 in the setup menu, you need to manually turn squeeze mode to "on" for 4:3 DVDs (the 3910 will not automatically adjust).

Originally posted by BillP
GetGray, assuming you set the 3910 outpout to 16:9 in the setup menu, you need to manually turn squeeze mode to "on" for 4:3 DVDs (the 3910 will not automatically adjust). That stinks. Don't you agree? IMO a $1500 player ought to.

Originally posted by keyser
ssabripo,
Didn´t Kris Deering recomend Auto1 for NTSC DVD´s and Auto2 for PAL?
And why use the DNR? I don´t see any difference with it on or off, doesn´t reduce any compression artifacts or noise that I can see.. so I just left it off, as often these NR produce motion artifacts.

I´m interested in knowing how the vertical/horizontal enhancers work with HDMI(10 bit) and other displays than single chip DLP. With DVI and single chippers the banding becomes very bad with only one click on vertical enhancer(the menu in vanilla sky was a nice example.. or the sky in the beginning of ice age).


1. Yes, Kris said that "generally speaking", you want Auto1 for NTSC and Auto2 for PAL (this is what Denon recommends)....but however, I found that Auto2 worked best overall for my setup. It had a better layer change believe it or not in NTSC discs. Secret's 3910 review scores also confirm that Auto2 did a better job overall with the hard-for-the-eye-to-see tests.

2. DNR did help me slightly, particularly with grainy DVDs like "Black Hawk Down". It is Obvious that the DNR circuit is not as good as in the 5910, but overall it did a good job. No Motion artifacts whatsoever, and in the couple of scenes in the 50 discs I have tried where there was a hint of MB, for some odd reason it actually helped it......thus, it stays on.

3. have not played much with the V/H enhancers...I will get around to it.

Originally posted by Dave Vaughn
NO!!! All calibrations should be done with you display. Only as a last resort should you use the DVD player controls.

Dave


Yes and No.

the calibrations done on your display will provide 99% of the accuracy you want when watching DVDs....the calibration media is as such. But when you switch to HDTV, depending on the tweaking capabilities of your display, there are some tweaks you can do in your display to maximize HDTV PQ, and use the 3910's tweaking capabilities to my advantage as well....

FOr example, now I have a perfect balance between the setup in my Sony KDF-55XS955 and in my 3910....both DVDs and HD look calibrated. The chroma adjustments on the player, plus the DNR, have helped tremendously...not to mention the IRE changes.

so YES, do as much tweaking on your display, and NO, dont just leave it at that but maximize your performance by taking advantage of some of the circuitry available in a quality player like the 3910...

just my .02

I prefer to use one HDTV input for each source and then to calibrate that input specifically for that source's output. Sometimes, you need to still tweak the source units output if you end up with a tendency toward "green or red push", for example.
I have also found immense differences between a single source when comparing the component video versus the VGA/RGB outputs.
YMMV.

How can I tell what firmware I have in my 3910?
I ordered 9, but I haven't kept up any since I bought the unit back in Oct.
Is it O.K. to install firmware 9 if my current is 6 or 7? or do I need 8?

I installed 9 right over 6, so yes, you can install it over whatever firmware you currently have.

There does not seem to any compelling reason to upgrade from -8 to -9, does there?

Is there a region free -8? If not then that´s a reason for some to go -9.

anyone know what "10+ in the BM" stands for????

I am having problems with the LFE signal on the analog 5.1 outputs, and someone mentioned that I should make sure I have a "10+ in the BM"...:confused:

+10db

Originally posted by Tom Grooms
+10db

where do I set that??? I can't see anywhere in the menus to add 10dB to my LFE...

GetGray -

Thank you so much for your post regarding the 3910's squeeze issue - I've been pondering the same question. I too had a Bravo that did the "auto squeeze on/off" depending on it sensing what aspect ratio the program was mastered. When I upgraded to the 3910 I was wondering if I had not set it up properly. Perhaps Denon can correct this in a future firmware upgrade?

I didn't realize there was an actual flag in the DVD bit-stream the player could use to sense the proper aspect ratio!?!

Andre'

Originally posted by ssabripo
where do I set that??? I can't see anywhere in the menus to add 10dB to my LFE... come on ssabripo, you can find it, you just have to look :D

Originally posted by Andre Smith
GetGray -
. . . I too had a Bravo that did the "auto squeeze on/off" depending on it sensing what aspect ratio the program was mastered. When I upgraded to the 3910 I was wondering if I had not set it up properly. Perhaps Denon can correct this in a future firmware upgrade?

I didn't realize there was an actual flag in the DVD bit-stream the player could use to sense the proper aspect ratio!?!

Doh! Yes, this does seem like a no-brainer. What was Denon thinking?

Originally posted by Tom Grooms
come on ssabripo, you can find it, you just have to look :D


yeah...I saw it now...under multichannel -> speaker configuration.

the problem is, I think I have everything setup correctly, yet, only the front 2 speakers are available (the rest are greyed out and cant be accessed). :confused:

wierd...

ps- do these settings affect the analog 5.1 outs, or everyting (such as the audio going to the Rx via digi coax)?

Originally posted by Andre Smith
GetGray -

Thank you so much for your post regarding the 3910's squeeze issue - I've been pondering the same question. I too had a Bravo that did the "auto squeeze on/off" depending on it sensing what aspect ratio the program was mastered. When I upgraded to the 3910 I was wondering if I had not set it up properly. Perhaps Denon can correct this in a future firmware upgrade?

I didn't realize there was an actual flag in the DVD bit-stream the player could use to sense the proper aspect ratio!?!

Andre' Yep, it's there. I make DVD's and have to set the flag when authoring. I have a demo DVD I recently authored (see "best 5 minutes..." thread) and it has a mix of both. The 3910 wouldn't know it though.

I read that the Pioneer 59avi handled this change correctly. You can turn the behavior on or off. When on, it even does it on the fly inter-scene if the DVD is encoded that way. This is the correct behavior.

My 3910 is one onf the "good" ones that has no green push and it passed BTB. It's overkill for me since I don't use any of it's audio capabilities. I'm thinking about selling it and getting the 59avi based on this one feature (or lack of it). Anyone who has done the research have an opinion on PQ of the 59avi vs the 3910 over DVI?

Thanks,
Scott

I sent this to the only kinda tech support address I could find for Denon. Anyone else have a decent address I could send it to?


----- Original Message -----
To: <contactservice@denonnj.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 10:25 AM
Subject: 3910 DVD problem


> Dear Denon:
>
> I have a problem with the Denon 3910 DVD player. It is a feature
> problem, not something literally wrong with the player. I was hoping
> you could put me in contact with your product group for this player
> and hopefully get this handled with the next firmware release.
>
> The 3910 DVD player does not recognize the 16:9 aspect flag on DVD's.
> When playing a 4:3 DVD the player plays it in a "stretched" 16:9 mode.
> I know this can be globally changed in the setup menu using the
> "squeeze" mode, but this is a global change that will then compress
> 16:9 material to 4:3 if on. Having to go through a setup menu for
> every DVD is poor behavior. Many DVD's have trailers and movie
> content that is in both 16:9 and 4:3 formats. Your player would have
> to be manually switched via the setup menu throught the playing of
> such a DVD. This behavior (or lack of) makes it impossible to watch
> such a DVD in it's proper aspects as encoded on the DVD. This is
> unacceptable and a serious flaw.
>
> The proper behavior is to have the player read the DVD flag and
> _automatically_ display the material in 4:3 with "pillarbox" sidebars,
> or in 16:9. This should at least be a behavior that can be turnd on
> or off. Competing products (e.g. Pioneer 59avi) do this function
> properly. Even many lower priced units do it properly. At this price
> point the 3910 should do it as well. I hope you agree.
>
> Before selling my 3910 and seeking a unit that handles this flag
> properly, I want to inquire as to whether or not this is something "in
> the mill" or something that you are willing to comit to in a upcoming
> (i.e. soon) firmware release.
>
> Thanks,
> Scott
>

A serious flaw? Don't you think you're over reacting. It just a dvd player.

Originally posted by Tom Grooms
A serious flaw? Don't you think you're over reacting. It just a dvd player. No, actually I don't. It's not a reaction, it's a fact. It's just a DVD player that dosen't work right. For $1500 I would like one that does.

:rolleyes: whatever dude, It works fine, just not the way you want. My advice, return it before you find out ieee1394 turns off analog outputs. Wouldn't want you to have a seizure if you had to push set-up to turn the analog outputs on. ;)

I would much rather activate squeeze mode than trust that all dvds are properly flagged.

Originally posted by Tom Grooms
:rolleyes: whatever dude, It works fine, just not the way you want. My advice, return it before you find out ieee1394 turns off analog outputs. Wouldn't want you to have a seizure if you had to push set-up to turn the analog outputs on. ;)

I would much rather activate squeeze mode than trust that all dvds are properly flagged.

I'm happy for you that it works the way you like it. As you say, It does not work fine IMO.

Activating squeeze mode squeezes 16:9 to 4:3. So, you mean "activate it as needed" on 4:3 material I assume.

If this issue doesn't bother someone then they are either:

a) not watching 4:3 discs
b) one of those that don't mind having their images stretched or squeezed
c) don't mind the 8 or so remote "clicks" it takes to turn squeeze on or off, good for you. I have others who enjoy my projector and shouldn't need to know.
d) don't mind manually using their displays aspect control to "correct" 4:3 material coming from the 3910 in 16:9 format.

You say you are c) if I take your response correctly, fine, not me. I don't fall into any of those categories although I use d) as a workaround.

But I do agree there should be an override for an improperly flagged disc: Squeeze on, off, auto is the way other mfgrs do it apparantly.

Cheeers,
Scott

I'm definitely in the "a)" camp ;) But I'll tell ya what, the 1394 disabling analog and having to fire up the display to turn it off wears me out.

Hey Denon, how about a ieee on/off button for the 3920. :)

I too came from a Bravo D2, and miss the automatic anamorphic compression compensation. Also, I find using the term "squeeze" to be misleading, since most displays use "normal" and "fill", or "panel" and "full", or some such. Given that widescreen data is anamorphically compressed, the 4:3 mode should be "off", and 16:9 should be "expanded", "full", or "wide".

In any case, it should be automatic with manual overrides.

Originally posted by GetGray
Activating squeeze mode squeezes 16:9 to 4:3. So, you mean "activate it as needed" on 4:3 material I assume.

If this issue doesn't bother someone then they are either:

a) not watching 4:3 discs

Out of the dozen and a half DVDs I've watched in the two weeks since I got my 3910 only one was not widescreen - Eagles "Hell Freezes Over." It was annoying, but I didn't know how to adjust it at the time. I just got used to Henley's head being that big.

Originally posted by pepar
Out of the dozen and a half DVDs I've watched in the two weeks since I got my 3910 only one was not widescreen - Eagles "Hell Freezes Over." It was annoying, but I didn't know how to adjust it at the time. I just got used to Henley's head being that big. :D Yeah, we go out of our way ot get 16:9, too. But we've got some little ones and a lot of older stuff in 4:3. And I like old movies which a lot of are in 4:3. Obviously depending on what you watch and who is operating will determine if it's an issue at all or not.

Cheers,
Scott

there are loads of TV programs on DVD in 4:3.

If you have a universal remote, you can program a macro to do the change for you...it takes about 5 minutes or less to do on a MX-700.

Dave

I'm missing something here, regarding the issue of the 3910 not performing auto "squeeze" of 4:3 source material (i.e., pillar box or stretch).

From the manual, page 37:
When "SQUEEZE MODE" is selected:
ON:
Select this when playing back a 4:3 image that you wish to display at 4:3 aspect ratio at the center of a 16:9 TV.
* Only effective for set to "WIDE (16:9)" at "TV ASPECT"

My 2900 did this perfectly. 4:3 material was centered in my TV and anamorphic DVDs filled (stretched) the full screen as I expected.

However, when I upgraded to the 3910, I left this OFF, since my Pioneer Elite PRO530HD was starting to show "burn" / wear differences from the pillar boxing. Now I want to even out the CRT burn.

If/when I turn this back ON, will 4:3 source material be centered/pillar boxed as it was with the 2900, and anamorphic stretched across the entire screen? I am work right now and will try this out when I get home...

Thanks!

Doug

Originally posted by rttrek
there are loads of TV programs on DVD in 4:3.

SG-1 is, surprisingly, enhanced for widescreen, but alas all of my ST:TNG is 4:3. Haven't looked, but I imagine Cosmos and Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy are as well.

4:3 disk, yuck!!

There are more serious issues that Denon needs to resolve.:mad:

Originally posted by Auditor55
4:3 disk, yuck!!

There are more serious issues that Denon needs to resolve.:mad:

You can keep that phrase on a macro and just insert a manufacturer's name. I've never seen any A/V product that is perfect. At least, I've never seen one that I can afford.

Originally posted by GetGray


If this issue doesn't bother someone then they are either:

a) not watching 4:3 discs
b) one of those that don't mind having their images stretched or squeezed
c) don't mind the 8 or so remote "clicks" it takes to turn squeeze on or off, good for you. I have others who enjoy my projector and shouldn't need to know.
d) don't mind manually using their displays aspect control to "correct" 4:3 material coming from the 3910 in 16:9 format.



or e) just change it with the Picture Mode button on the front of the player. (2 seconds)

Originally posted by btiltman
or e) just change it with the Picture Mode button on the front of the player. (2 seconds)

I'm guessing that none of us knew that; I sure didn't. But then who reads the manual? :cool:

Originally posted by btiltman
or e) just change it with the Picture Mode button on the front of the player. (2 seconds) It dosent' work to my satisfaction, enough about that. Not to nitpick and I'll let this go, really. I stand by my list above. Your suggestion could be added to it:

e) don't mind getting up and walking across the room (or into an equipment room for some) to push buttons on a $1500 player.

Also not a category I fit into. Especially with multi-aspect discs. If you've got a 3910, you just gotta get used to pushing buttons. Or watching wrong aspects..

And that's the end of it here. Unless anyone knows a better e-mail address for Denon, I'd still like to add it to their to-do list for consideration.

At least I got a "good" one that passes BTB and before the price increase. Maybe a selling point, anyone interested PM me....

S

Originally posted by GetGray

At least I got a "good" one that passes BTB and before the price increase. Maybe a selling point, anyone interested PM me....

S [/B]

No way dude, sounds to me like you got a lemon. :p

SC

Ok, so now I understand what the issue is with the auto-squeeze mode (I just got home from work to give it a try).

I have to admit, this seems like a definite (and simple) bug. My 2900 had the same option that could be turned OFF (Default) or ON. The big difference was that the 2900 performed flawlessly on detecting and switching between 4:3 and anamorphic material when I had Squeeze Mode ON, even on-the-fly during a DVD that had mixed material.

Since the 3910 can obviously squeeze and stretch, I would think this could be fixed with a simple firmware change. That is, it would seem there is nothing wrong with the hardware.

Hence, I agree with GetGray that we should let Denon know about this bug for inclusion in a future firmware release. Maybe the same future release that will support SACD over DenonLink ;)

Doug

Well, I changed the speaker configuration to Small, and turned +10dB on the Subwoofer, and it helped a lot on the Analog 5.1 outs.

The digi coax connection still has a higher LFE signal, and that's probably because of the Rx levels I have set....thank God it was not a problem with the player.

thanks again everyone!

Originally posted by GetGray
e) don't mind getting up and walking across the room (or into an equipment room for some) to push buttons on a $1500 player.

You already have to get up and walk across the room to load a disc in the player anyway. Does it really matter that much if you have to wait a few more seconds for the disc to load and use the picture mode button on the front of the player?

Originally posted by K_Thompson
You already have to get up and walk across the room to load a disc in the player anyway. Does it really matter that much if you have to wait a few more seconds for the disc to load and use the picture mode button on the front of the player?

I agree. I'd rather have a player with great PQ, audio, and reliablity than one with automatic squeeze mode, and will take the 3910 over the D2 any day. I have been watching some X-Files DVDs lately, and do not find it that big a deal to turn squeeze mode on a few seconds after loading the disc. If you're too lazy to do so, you can always use the remote to change the menu setting between 4:3 and 16:9 depending on which type of DVD you just loaded.

Good for you. But for me, a $1500 player ought to work right, everywhere. I'm happy for you if you are perfectly satisfied with only part of the package.

It's not about laziness. It's about being to automate a high end home theater. It's about being able to integrate the unit with a high end remote and about having others who are not DVD savvy be able to control the theater without having to be aspect savvy. It's about watching a DVD, including it's trailers, that are often encoded in a different aspect, at the correct proportions. Having to change aspects mid stream is ridiculoius, for me. You go right on and watch them stretched, enjoy.

One of their older players did this correctly, it's not news to them. I'd rather have one that did what you like, and what I want, too. I'd like to have one that the tray didn't squeel when it closed. Mine dosen't, I'd complain if it did, becasue it shoudln't. Even if it has stellar build quality everywhere else. Maybe that would be OK with you too, as long as it only lasted a couple seconds.

I don't mean to compare it to the D2. Obviously I prefer it over the D2 since I have it and not the D2.

Wow are you guys the Denon defenders or what? What else can be wrong with it and you be perfectly happy with it. We all draw the line somewhere at when we feel like we get the value we paid for. Overall I'm happy with the players quality, but there is nothing wrong with wanting it to handle a fundamental DVD specification correctly. Give it up guys, it's wrong, there's nothing wrong with pointing it out.

pfft.

Yeah, what GetGray said!

Originally posted by GetGray
Wow are you guys the Denon defenders or what? What else can be wrong with it and you be perfectly happy with it. We all draw the line somewhere at when we feel like we get the value we paid for.I didn't see anyone defending Denon. As you yourself said we all draw the line somewhere and I guess they just thought it was a rather silly place to draw it.

Originally posted by Charles R
I didn't see anyone defending Denon. As you yourself said we all draw the line somewhere and I guess they just thought it was a rather silly place to draw it.

I concur!

I would have to go with GetGray on the squeeze issue. It's simply stupid that a $1500 Denon "high end" player requires that much interaction to allow for proper aspect ratio. It doesn't make it any less of a great player, just annoying. $100 players can do this for crying out loud..

My 5900 has the same problem but since I SDI'ed it and went with a iSCAN I just need to hit the 4x3 button on the iSCAN remote, Denon could have done this as well with a button on their remote.

Unfortunately there is no perfect player out there at any price, so it always comes down to which sacrifices you are willing to make. The Onkyo SP1000, for more money, has lip synch issues (a much bigger problem, IMO) and doesn't support HDCD. And the much more expensive 5910 does not support custom upscaling, a huge weakness at that price. So nothing's perfect. I think we all agree that the 3910 should automatically turn squeeze mode on, but it doesn't, so it comes down to living with it the way it is or trading it for a different player (Denon may never change that feature with a firmware upgrade). To me, I'm willling to live with it based on its strengths.

Originally posted by keenan
$100 players can do this for crying out loud.. You have to wind a Rolex (after the weekend).

Originally posted by Charles R
You have to wind a Rolex (after the weekend).

That's why I wouldn't own one, too much work..:D :p

So yes Denon can make this baby better. If sufficient people from this forum contact Denon about this issue I bet that they will fix it, if readily possible (by a firmware update??).

That's why my submariner sits in a drawer...

I say let's all get our pitchforks and torches and quietly assemble in the alley. March to the castle and threaten to burn it down if they don't surrender the monster. :D

SC

Originally posted by Badabbing
I say let's all get our pitchforks and torches and quietly assemble in the alley. March to the castle and threaten to burn it down if they don't surrender the monster. :D

SC

But I want my Torch to come on automatically at the first sign of a monster - I dont want all that work of flicking the switch manually.......

Originally posted by btiltman
But I want my Torch to come on automatically at the first sign of a monster - I dont want all that work of flicking the switch manually.......

I think it should also indicate the type of monster approaching with different color flames. Maybe with a firmware revision.

Come on now, let's get serious. My player goes to the mail box for me, and then automatically loads my Netflix DVD.

Originally posted by BillP
Come on now, let's get serious. My player goes to the mail box for me, and then automatically loads my Netflix DVD.

What page is that found in the manual? :D :D :D