Ahhh, it's a slow news day here on the 3910 thread . . .

I do regret my post that apparently started this drivel!! :D

Originally posted by mismatched
I do regret my post that apparently started this drivel!! :D

No you don't, admit it! Besides, I did find a new use for the CD tray. The all important coffee cup caddy, but damn if I don't have to get up and fetch the cup. If I could only design a tray that's propelled when ejected, hummm. Or maybe firmware -11. :rolleyes:

SC :p

Here's a bit of news: refurb 3910s are showing up in the usual places...

One minor frustration is the number of classic 1:33 films on DVD that have widescreen menus that look lousy in squeeze mode.

( Hey, I did say it was a MINOR frustration ! )

Jeez... my 3910 doesn't have the MB or BTB problem, and my SP1000 doesn't have the lip-sync problem... I kinda feel outta place in this thread. :(

But both of these players require a button push to adjust to non-anamorphic and 4:3 DVDs.

Originally posted by merc
Jeez... my 3910 doesn't have the MB or BTB problem, and my SP1000 doesn't have the lip-sync problem... I kinda feel outta place in this thread. :(

No problem. There's the door. You may leave us in our misery now :D :p

Please help.
I just took delivery of my new 3910 yesterday and am having some teething isssues.
I am using an AVR 5800(upgraded to the 5803), and the denon link does not seem to be active on the menu of the 3910. Why?
When I try to output 720p into my PJ(Infocus SP 5700), it changes automatically to 576p.
The local(South Africa) Denon folk do not seem to be too clued up.
Thanks,
George.

I also have the 5700 and the 3910. You can´t have a DVD in the player when turning on the Dlink, be sure the DVD player is empty when you go through the setup and the the Dlink shouldn´t be greyed out.

The resolution I have the DVD player send out is the same as the projector tells me it´s getting, but it will of course downconvert all of this to it´s native 576p resolution.

Thanks Biggi,
I in error pm'd you twice with only one of them containing the questions for you.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
George.

Hey guys. I just downloaded a new firmware update from Denon that totally eliminates all macro blocking artifacts regardless of your display, automatically detects the aspect ratio of each DVD and applies the squeeze mode accordingly, and fixes the blacker than black issue for players that don't pass BTB!

Oh, and did I mention that it now brings me breakfast in bed?!

Happy April Fools Day everyone!!:D :D

Oh, you mean it doesn't activate DenonLink 3 for SACD ?

Pity.

Paul.

Originally posted by K_Thompson
Hey guys. I just downloaded a new firmware update from Denon that totally eliminates all macro blocking artifacts regardless of your display, automatically detects the aspect ratio of each DVD and applies the squeeze mode accordingly . . .

Lol, nearly had me there :D untill you got to the breakfast in bed :)
wishful thinking.


KJ

Originally posted by pbir
Oh, you mean it doesn't activate DenonLink 3 for SACD ?

Pity.

Paul.

Is that fix expected anytime soon?

Originally posted by ADGrant
Is that fix expected anytime soon?

Next April 1!

Kal

Guys,

what's the deal with the 3910's colorspace when outputting in 720p or 1080i via HDMI in YCrCb ?? shouldn't it have converted the colorspace from SD to HD, since all Displays dont decode it as SD??

chek out this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=5419261#post5419261

this guys thinks that the green-push on our 3910s could be a sign that the Player is not converting the colorspace to HD when transmitting it.....

anyone has more info on this?

Hi,
What is the longest dvi run people have here? I'm using an 11m dvi cable and getting sync issues. I switch to a 2M cable and no issues. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Duane

I use a 10M DVI cable. Never had problems. I used to have an NEC HT1000 projector, and connected a Samsung 931 DVD player to the NEC with the 10M DVI cable. No problems. Worked great. Now, my 3910 is hooked up to a DVI switcher with an HDMI to DVI converter cable. The 10M DVI cable is hooked up between the DVI switcher and my Marantz S3. No problems there either. There's other threads in AVS that discuss DVI cable issues, if you want more information.

I've got a 10-meter DVI connected to a Sony HS10 and there's no lip-sync issues either.

On another note, what does -9 really fix? In the download PDF, it says that it addresses problems with "The A-Team" and "Star Wars: Episode 2." Did I come in late for an April Fool's joke or does -9 address something less specific. Don't get me wrong, my A-Team DVD is almost worn out, but I was hoping for something more from -9.

Jason

re: -9

not an April fools joke! Amazing that they would spend effort on two movies. Must fix related problems in other flicks!!

They were working on fixing 2 movies and I got dogged over my aspect thing??? Glad I didn't say here "I sure wish Denon would fix how my 3910 plays the A team, they should doa firmware release ASAP!" :D:D

Scott

You may have your wish sooner than you think. I emailed Denon because my upgrade disk hasn't shown up yet. ( still on -7). Jim McGuinness stated all mailings are on hold due to a ANOTHER update in progress on -9. We'll see because right now I'm considering another player, it's not that great a picture. The 2200 looked better on my RPTV. Frankly, the only difference I see is between 480i 480p. 720 and 1080 just give more macroblocking; even on DVI.

Quick question please... if one is using the 2ch stereo outs, can the sub from the 5.1 outs be used at the same time and without changing sound quality? I'd like to add a sub that way to a two channel setup.

Originally posted by T. Perinne
Quick question please... if one is using the 2ch stereo outs, can the sub from the 5.1 outs be used at the same time and without changing sound quality? I'd like to add a sub that way to a two channel setup. doesn't work like that, two channel is not 2.1. If you run bass management through the player, you better have a multichannel preamp

Along those same lines (post #2774, 2773), will the bass management and/or time alignment be active for the 2-channel stereo outputs along with the 5.1 outputs, or are the 2-channel outputs always full range stereo "direct" so-to-speak?

Is there any advantage to using the DVI-D output, rather than the HDMI output, if you are connecting it to a DVI-D input? Does using a HDMI to DVI-D adapter end up truncating bits and thereby, losing BTB?

No, an HDMI->DVI-D adapter just matches the right pins to the right pins. It doesn't change any data so there should be no difference. That assumes of course that the TV processes input from both the same, and there is actually no guarantee of that.

But Steve, I thought some early findings were that the HDMI -> HDMI was good BTB, the DVI -> DVI was good BTB, but the HDMI ->DVI did not pass BTB. There was something with the HDMI "chip" causing it to clip the blacks...I thought anyway. Has this been fixed or was it erroneous info (I think it was from Kris Deering)?

You are talking about two different outputs from the DVD player, not switching cables on the same output. Just as the TV could process DVI and HDMI differently, the player could certainly do different things on each output which is what appears to be going on in that case. The question was about the cable which does no processing whatsoever.

Yes Steve, I see your point.

So, to be accurate, if merc was to use a HDMI -> DVI adapter from his 3910, he MIGHT have a BTB problem, but it would not be because of the cable, it would be a player problem.

How's that?

Can anyone confirm a HDMI -> DVI BTB issue?

IIRC, the 3910 (first ship) did clip head and toe room when using HDMI output to a DVI input device. However, this was really a non-issue because it also had a DVI output which worked fine. I'm somewhat suprised by all this recent BTB issues with the 3910 (unless it's HDMI->DVI) because somewhere along the line they must have "broke" something. When I auditioned the 3910 when it first came out I thought it performed quite well except for the issues that Kris documented when he tested it.

larry

Dave,
My understanding is that bass management is irrelevant for a 2-ch system. Time lag may still be workable w/ 2-ch (only relevant if you have a lip-sync problem). Regarding your DVI/HDMI question, yes, you are better off going DVI-to-DVI or HDMI-to-HDMI rather than HDMI-to-DVI or DVI-to-HDMI because of the black crush issue found by Kris Deering (I don't know if they fixed that problem with any of the firmware updates, but since the 3910 has both a DVI and HDMI output, there is no reason not to go DVI/DVI or HDMI/HDMI).

Yes, I understand BM is not always relevant in a 2-channel system, and TA is totally irrelevant.

I simply want to know if I can connect using the separate 2-ch outputs for the main L/R, and then use 5.1 outputs for the rest [leaving the front L/R connections of the multi-ch output disconnected].

My mains are full range, so no BM/TA is needed there no matter what the scenario, but if I can connect this way [above], then I don't need separate connections to my pre amp for 2-ch and multi-ch...I just won't turn on the mutli-ch extra amp(s) when playing that material. Then, the TA/BM is obviously not active for 2-ch material, but will everything function properly for multi-ch operation?

Dave, I do not believe you can do that. I think you need to connect everything (ie, connect 5 RCAs between the 3910 and receiver for multichannel, and another pair for 2-ch). Then, you can just tell the 3910 whether to output 2-ch or multichannel.

Originally posted by BillP
Dave, I do not believe you can do that. I think you need to connect everything (ie, connect 5 RCAs between the 3910 and receiver for multichannel, and another pair for 2-ch). Then, you can just tell the 3910 whether to output 2-ch or multichannel.

That's how I had to do it - connected the additional L & R outputs to the CD input of my receiver. But I do get 2 channel sound only out of my 5.1 analogs when I play a 2 channel source through EXT IN on the Denon 3805.

Why not though? What happens in my scenario?

Also consider that my mains have no BM (they are set to "large") or TA, and I could always use the 5.1 analog inputs to my pre/pro.

Bill, are you East PA, or West PA?

The BTB problem is not a connection, cable or display or configuration problem. The issue is that the Sept onward builds of the 3910 do not pass a BTB signal using DVE as a benchmark. Get an early build machine you are golden!! If not you wait for a Denon fix!

Dave, I'm in the burbs north of Philly (but I'm a Patriots and Red Sox fan since I grew up in Boston). To be honest, I have not tried what you suggest. It all comes down to whether the player will output simultaneously over both the 2-ch outputs and the multichannel outputs. I suspect that if you choose multichannel output in the menu, the 2-ch outputs will not work (so your main speakers will not work if you have nothing connected to the front L/R multichannel outputs), but the only way to know for sure is to try it.

Originally posted by mismatched
The BTB problem is not a connection, cable or display or configuration problem. The issue is that the Sept onward builds of the 3910 do not pass a BTB signal using DVE as a benchmark. Get an early build machine you are golden!! If not you wait for a Denon fix!

Without having to read through 140 pages, is this the general consensus here?

Would the fix be a firmware update or a hardware issue - thus needing the consumer to wait until the issue was physically corrected on new units from the factory?

Denon claims to be fully aware of the problem and that a firmware fix is close at hand, and that a "physical" correction will not be required. This comes from Denon themselves.

Of course they would say that... hopefully its true. Imagine Denon saying its a physical problem - people who were aware of the issue would avoid buying any 3910's currently in stock with retailers. But like I said, hopefully the fix will be via firmware update.

I may take the plunge with the 3910.

I have a "new" June 2004 built 3910 and am using its' HDMI output to a DVD-D input (only because I bought the $250 bettercable, originally for the Onkyo SP1000(no DVI-D) and must use it).

I have no problems with passing BTB or with white crush as determined by calibration using Avia and VE.

My understanding of the HDMI vs DVI-D issue is the type of digital signal each output uses. Supposedly, HDMI sends a 10 bit digital component signal while DVI-D uses an 8 bit RGB signal... or something like that? When you use a HDMI to DVI-D adapter, supposedly, the top and bottom bits are clipped to make the HDMI signal fit the 8 bit DVI-D signal... or, it has something to do with how each type video output sets IRE at 0 or 16 or some such stuff... as you can tell, I am highly technically educated on this issue. :D

Still, I am either going grab one of those DVI-D to HDMI adapters and stick it on the HDMI end of the cable to use the DVI-D output.

YMMV.

The 3910 does pass a signal to the 2-channel analog outputs while also outputting the 5.1 signal. Like Jazzcat, I've got the 2-channel connected to the CD input on my 3805. While I've got 5.1 playing in the living room, I often also have the 2-channel mix playing in the kitchen via the Zone 2 speakers with CD selected as the Zone 2 source.

Jason

Thanks Jason!

Can anybody tell me if the 3910 will do 480i over HDMI? I can't find it in the online specs.

Can anybody tell me if the 3910 will do 480i over HDMI? I can't find it in the online specs. I don't believe it will... but I will check it out tomorrow and get back to you.

Originally posted by merc
I don't believe it will... but I will check it out tomorrow and get back to you.

Thanks merc!

Originally posted by T. Perinne
Thanks Jason!

Can anybody tell me if the 3910 will do 480i over HDMI? I can't find it in the online specs.

No, it does not do 480i over HDMI.

I emailed the Australian distributors for Denon today - just mentioning the issue of BTB and they emailed me back saying that I need to upgrade to firmware 9??!! So I guess I will have to make a trip to their offices and see if this is true - unfortunately this will not happen until next week - I don't think this is going to help though. Here's hoping.

Originally posted by johndoe
I emailed the Australian distributors for Denon today - just mentioning the issue of BTB and they emailed me back saying that I need to upgrade to firmware 9??!!

Unfortunately whatever problem you ask them about they say to update to the <Insert Latest Number Here> firmware. Half the time they dont even know what you are talking about, but it usually gets rid of you for a while! Personally I am not taking my machine for a drive again until someone independant verifys that a particular update fixes something that I need fixed. Hopefully the next firmware release will be the 'good' one!

I've got the firmware version 9.
Does not pass BTB with that either.

Has anyone had a problem with the denon link cable? My multichannel connection between my 3805 & 3910 works for 15-20 minutes and then goes dead. I have to switch over to ext-in after that. I swapped the 3910 in for another unit and it still does it. I didn't switch the cable cause it's a bear to get to on my receiver.

Thanks
Frank

i just saw on the denon website that version 9 firmware is available, anyone know what it corrects?

Originally posted by david8613
i just saw on the denon website that version 9 firmware is available, anyone know what it corrects? You can watch the A-team now. Really.

i love it when a plan comes together...

Did we ever figure out if the 3910 sends out the correct colorspace over DVI?

I have noticed that component seems to definately not look as green as the DVI output (DVI was calibrated propery on to its own as was the comonent input).

Originally posted by david8613
i love it when a plan comes together... I guess "they pitty the fool who can't watch"....

Originally posted by longshanksdvd
Did we ever figure out if the 3910 sends out the correct colorspace over DVI?

I have noticed that component seems to definately not look as green as the DVI output (DVI was calibrated propery on to its own as was the comonent input). Is there an easy test for this? I don't think mine's wrong, seems OK anyway. I'd liek to know. I have Avia and DVE, is there a test there I can use?

Thanks,
Scott

I think it is definately off, just wondering if anyone else has noticed. I have mine running to a IF 7205

Originally posted by longshanksdvd
I think it is definately off, just wondering if anyone else has noticed. I have mine running to a IF 7205

Anyone I know that had this issue found that it was easily compensated for by adjusting up the Hue command in the Picture setup menus, using one of the memory slots (M1-M5). I suggest you set your component output to Interlaced and adjust color balance to your liking. Then you can switch between DVI and component on the fly as you adjust the Hue until they closely match. (ie The Hue command does not effect the component output only the digital)

Doesn't the 3910 have an option for outputing RGB or YCrCb over DVI? If so, I'm 99% sure that with the RGB option there shouldn't be any issue. Color DECODING (and that is what we are talking about, not color SPACE) would then all be done in the player, presumably using the SD equations.

The problem that can arise with upconverting players that send YCrCb to a display at 720p or 1080i is that the display may assume the input is an HD signal and use the HD color decoding equations. With RGB input to the TV the color decoding has already been done so the TV can't get it wrong.

Unless the player itself has a flaw and uses HD color decoding equations when upconverting (which I guess is possible, but would be a horrible design oversight) the RGB output should be fine.

Greetings,

Doesn't the 3910 have an option for outputing RGB or YCrCb over DVI?

Steve, that option is available via HDMI only.


Regards,

Of course, since DVI is RGB only, I believe.

btiltman,
i went to their Alexandria address after they suggested to bring in the machine for the upgrade and was told by the technician the turn around time was 5-7 working days!! After some general tooing and frooing they decided the upgrade could be done during the span of one day.
Alas no BTB!

Originally posted by johndoe
btiltman,
i went to their Alexandria address after they suggested to bring in the machine for the upgrade and was told by the technician the turn around time was 5-7 working days!! After some general tooing and frooing they decided the upgrade could be done during the span of one day.
Alas no BTB!

Crikey! I thought I was bad off here in Melbourne. I have to take it there first thing in the Morning, drive home again, and come back after lunch! So a total of 4 x 30min trips. Recently I found a dealer that was issued with the upgrade disks and they just plugged it in and did it (2 mins) and I took it back home. I havent bothered with -9 as, considering what it fixes, it just wasnt worth the hassel and I am very happy with the pic as it is.

Originally posted by Cheezmo
Of course, since DVI is RGB only, I believe.

From my understanding you are correct. This would seem like an easy solution for the all the color decoding issues that upscaling DVD players have (just to use DVI). HOWEVER, Kris Deering has commented that the 10-bit processing of the FLI2310 is only available via the HDMI output. So, it appears we have a trade off.

Well, I finally bit the bullet. I have been drooling ovet the 3910 ever since it was announced and have saved up enough to finally get one. I ordered it today and can't wait until it arrives.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

After you get it and start watching DVD's and Listening to DVD-A/SACD, you may have to change your Avatar. Believe me, I know.;)

ZEN

Originally posted by Zen Traveler
After you get it and start watching DVD's and Listening to DVD-A/SACD, you may have to change your Avatar. Believe me, I know.;)

ZEN

Moving to Texas is optional.

Allen

Are there any differences between the multiregion -9 firmware that was sent a month ago and the official one that can be found on denon's web site ??? Is it multiregion ???

Originally posted by Nomzamo
Are there any differences between the multiregion -9 firmware that was sent a month ago and the official one that can be found on denon's web site ??? Is it multiregion ???

Unfortunately no official issue on the Denon site has been, or will be, Multiregion.

Originally posted by traveler
Well, I finally bit the bullet. I have been drooling ovet the 3910 ever since it was announced and have saved up enough to finally get one. I ordered it today and can't wait until it arrives.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

You're are probably going to get one of the 3910's from the bad batch, meaning, not being able to pass btb.

Right now I have my 3910 hooked up to my Denon 4802R with the 6 analog cables. If I hooked it up to my Denon 3805 via ILink, can I get it to convert the DVD-Audio into 7 channels and use my rear 2 speakers in that set up?

Let me see if i understand what you are trying to do. you want to hook both units up at same time one with analog and one with the dlink. correct me if i am wrong but you want to have the anolog from the 4802 to 5 speakers and the 3805 hooked up to the dlink at same time with 2 speakers? If so i belive you may be able to do it this way.

Sorry, no ilink on the 3805. If you utilize denon link, yes you can force on rear surrounds.

kevinca1,

Thanks for your reply. I'm sorry to be so confusing. I have 2 theater setups. In my main theater I have the 4802 R and the 3910. In my Bedroom theater I have the 3805 and a 2910 . I have never hooked up the 3910 to the 3805. I was curious if I hooked this combination up (1 receiver) by i-link, would I be able to play DVD-A in a 7.1 configuration through the 3805 (instead of getting 5.1)?
{edit: I may be using the wrong term--how about through Denon-Link?}
I am happy with my main HT, which I watch more DVD's, than listen to DVD-A/SACD's. I feel (correct me if I am wrong) the Denon 4802R is superior in that regard to the 3805.

DVD-Audio only is 5.1 that i am aware of so it wouldnt matter which or how you had it hooked up. Just so you know like Tom said it is Dlink or Denon link neither reciever has i link aka firewire.

I had a person tell me that they were waiting to get the new Yamaha receiver (rxv-4600 available in June) so they could hook up a pioneer DVDA/SACD player through i-link (that is where I got the term) and play that material in a 7.1 format (I understand it will still be "5.1" ).

I know you can do this with DVD's through the optical connection. I didn't know/think that was possible to do that with SACD/DVD-A. Is it? I gather I can't do that with the 3910/3805 combination from what you just told me.

Tom,
If you understood my first post you are saying I CAN get 7.1 surround sound through Denon link (thanks for clarifying the "ilink/fireire" thing)on DVD-Audio, correct?
Kevin,
My 2nd post was directed at you since my 1st post was confusing--I think I was editing my post (as per Tom's clarification) as you were responding. Can I get my rear surrounds to work (7 speakers) through Denon Link on DVD-A material?

Not that i know of. I really do not think you can. I could be wrong.

When connecting the 3910 to the 3805 using Denon Link, yes you most certainly can add IIx and thus get sound out of the rears. In fact when doing so my front panel display reads "Multi In+PLIIx M" by default after having set up the receiver and player using Denon's instructions that can be found on the website.

I will say though that if you leave the settings as determined by the receiver's Auto Setup calibration, you will not hear too much coming out of the rears. For example mine are now set to +3.5db and +5.0db, and on most disks the rear sound is pretty subtle, mostly ambiance which is quite nice. You can always boost it manually if you want more - on mine I can go to +12.0db on each and then the rear sound is very noticable and probably too much on most DVD-A's.

In any case, I do love the DVD-A sound using Denon Link. In my room it provides much more balanced sound than SACD's using the Ext-In analog connection, which indicates that the Auto Setup is a big benefit for my system. Sure wish it worked with SACD's.

JBaumgart,

Thank you for your response. I had a Yamaha 5 disk player that I had prior to the 3910 purchase. The only reason I felt the need to upgrade my DVD player was I had just hooked up those 6 analog cables to my Denon 4802 and was impressed with the sound of the DVD-A's I had purchased. Over the last 7 months I have exhausted the supply of DVD-A/SACD that's available and pretty much did so within the first 3 months of experiencing the joy of 5.1 Hi-Rez music. That has been the down side.

I was pleased with the video quality of the Yammi, but wanted to know what I was missing with SACD--hence the purchase of the Denon 3910. My Mitsubishi highest video input is the component connection. I didn't see much difference in picture quality in the 2 players in 480p. I did tests with family and friends and they came to the same conclusion--They both looked great. I also don't regret buying the 3910; however I missed not being able to play DVD-A/SACD's in my bedroom theater. There I have a Samsung DLP which has the DVI connection. There I had the first generation upconverting samsung HD player which I wasn't impressed with.

I couldn't see paying $X,XXX for a 2nd player so I decided to buy the Denon-2910. The picture quality looks fabulous at 720p through DVI! I also like the way SACD/DVD-A's sound. This system uses bookshelf speakers so I can't really compare it to my main HT for sound quality, but extremely good nonetheless. The one thing I notice when I purchased it though, was that my older Yamaha receiver sounded bright in this combination. I was impressed by my Denon 4802R, so I decided to get the 3803 (discontinued-wanted a deal) to mate with it, couldn't find one so I went ahead and got the 3805.A very good receiver that matches well sonically with the 2910.

Over the last 7 months I have read every page of this thread (as well as the 2910, 3805 owners threads;-) and want to say thank you to everyone who has helped make my decisions. These forums are indispensable for people who want the best out of their electronic purchases. I am now finding I know as much, if not more, than the salespeople in the stores I frequent about these products. For those of you that got notification that someone had something important to say on the "3910 owners thread"--
Sorry about that, I owe a few of you one :)

Originally posted by Zen Traveler
JBaumgart,

... For those of you that got notification that someone had something important to say on the "3910 owners thread"--
Sorry about that, I owe a few of you one :)

You did, and you don't owe anyone anything.

Allen

JBaumgart, I thought the audio DACs in the 3910 are better than the DACs in the 3805, which means audio should sound better using the analog connections than D-Link.

Originally posted by BillP
JBaumgart, I thought the audio DACs in the 3910 are better than the DACs in the 3805, which means audio should sound better using the analog connections than D-Link.

That is what everybody says, but I'm just going by what my ears are telling me. In my room, the benefits of the adjustments that the receiver's Auto EQ Setup gives me far outweight any difference in the DAC's. DVD-A's through Denon Link sound much more balanced and powerful than SACD's using the DAC's of the 3910. I've experimented a great deal with the bass management in the 3910 and just can't get SACD's to sound as good. I still enjoy them as they are crystal clear with excellent sound reproduction, but they just don't have the same impact as well recorded DVD-A's in my room - YMMV of course.

I just wish that there was a better selection of DVD-A's that I wanted to buy, as there are slim pickings.

Originally posted by JBaumgart
I just wish that there was a better selection of DVD-A's that I wanted to buy, as there are slim pickings.
Beck's "Guero" just came out and is (as expected) unbelievably good. Interesting video content, too. :D

Jason

Originally posted by JasonColeman
Beck's "Guero" just came out and is (as expected) unbelievably good. Interesting video content, too. :D

Jason

I'll give it a listen before I buy. I recently purchased his "Sea Change" based on widespread recommendations of people over in the Surround thread, but to be honest, so far I find it kind of depressing. Hopefully as I listen to it a bit more I'll come to appreciate what makes it so appealing to so many of his fans.

With the 3910 picture settings at their default, there is "color banding" in the dark areas of an image. In other words, where there should be a smooth transition from dark to light, instead there are distinct bands of black, dark gray, lighter gray, etc.

Has anyone else experienced this problem and were you able to fix it?

Is this the "macroblocking" problem some have complained about? Is there a workaround?

Cheers,

- Tim

Originally posted by JBaumgart
I'll give it a listen before I buy. I recently purchased his "Sea Change" based on widespread recommendations of people over in the Surround thread, but to be honest, so far I find it kind of depressing. Hopefully as I listen to it a bit more I'll come to appreciate what makes it so appealing to so many of his fans.
Guero is definitely more upbeat than Sea Change (which is certainly a depressing and somber album, but the multichannel mix is incredible!). Guero harkens back to Odelay and is really a dynamite album. The double-disc "special edition" includes the DVD-A and a slew of remixes to boot. Definitely worth checking out!

Jason

Sorry for the OT tangent...:)

Tim,
do you mean areas of different gray or bands of different gray?

JBaumgartIn my room, the benefits of the adjustments that the receiver's Auto EQ Setup gives me far outweight any difference in the DAC's.
My problem too. I'd like to use the 3910 dacs more, but I really do need a bit of correction for my speakers and room.
I also got Sea Change and it is depressing... right up my alley!

tsteves -

You asked: "do you mean areas of different gray or bands of different gray?"

Let me give you an example. I watched the movie After the Sunset last night. In it there is a scene in which the main characters go scuba diving at night. Some of the under water shots are essentially black except where the water is illuminated by the flashlights the divers are carrying. What you should see is a sphere of light extending into the blackness of the surrounding water. The transition from light to dark should be smooth. Instead, what I see are approximately 8-10 distinct rings of gray around the lit area (white in the center and black all around).

Does that make sense?

Originally posted by hifisponge
tsteves -

You asked: "do you mean areas of different gray or bands of different gray?"

Let me give you an example. I watched the movie After the Sunset last night. In it there is a scene in which the main characters go scuba diving at night. Some of the under water shots are essentially black except where the water is illuminated by the flashlights the divers are carrying. What you should see is a sphere of light extending into the blackness of the surrounding water. The transition from light to dark should be smooth. Instead, what I see are approximately 8-10 distinct rings of gray around the lit area (white in the center and black all around).

Does that make sense?

That does sound like what is called macroblocking..is it sort of blocky looking or un-natural looking?

That I would call areas. What display? How did you calibrate?

What chapter is this scene in? I just got this movie from Netflix and I would like to see the scene in question...

Keenan - Yes, it looks unnatural, but not blocky. I don't know the chapter number, but the scene is towards the end of the movie. Just look for a chapter that looks like it has something to do with late-night scuba diving.

tsteves - The display is a Toshiba 57HX83. Its a 57" CRT Rear Projection HDTV connected to the 3910 via component. Currently the 3910 is using the default picture settings.

Originally posted by hifisponge
Keenan - Yes, it looks unnatural, but not blocky. I don't know the chapter number, but the scene is towards the end of the movie. Just look for a chapter that looks like it has something to do with late-night scuba diving.



I didn't see anything out of the ordinary, just some concentric haloing in one scene with the underwater flashlight so if you have a problem it's not the movie.

If that is what you saw, it's not macroblocking.

This movie looks like it has pretty good PQ BTW...

I e-mailed Chris Deering, the resident DVD player expert, and discovered that I had the IRE level setting incorrect. I had it set to 7.5, when it should be 0. I haven't checked to see if this has solved the problem, but there is a good chance since I recently changed that setting and started seeing this problem.

Doesn't your set upconvert all 480p inputs to 1080i?

The digitization of analog component signals might be a cause of what you're seeing.

Sam -

There is an option in the set to convert to 540P or 1080i, but I doubt it is the cause of the color banding because my last DVD player did not exhibit the problem on this set.

Cheers,

- Tim

Originally posted by hifisponge
Sam -

There is an option in the set to convert to 540P or 1080i, but I doubt it is the cause of the color banding because my last DVD player did not exhibit the problem on this set.

Cheers,

- Tim

What happens to the image when you change to 480i via component? I am still hesitant to believe the problem lies within the player itself.

tsteves - The display is a Toshiba 57HX83. Its a 57" CRT Rear Projection HDTV connected to the 3910 via component. Currently the 3910 is using the default picture settings.Probably, you can't compare the component output PQ with that of older players since the newer ones really only put the technology in the HDMI/DVI/HDCP outputs. All new DVD players devote their best traces to the Hollywood Studio approved upconverting outputs like HDMI.... :(

Originally posted by merc
Probably, you can't compare the component output PQ with that of older players since the newer ones really only put the technology in the HDMI/DVI/HDCP outputs. All new DVD players devote their best traces to the Hollywood Studio approved upconverting outputs like HDMI.... :(

Not always true. Both the Denon 3910 and 5910 are regarded as having virtually the best 480p component output on any DVD player ever made.

Not always true. Both the Denon 3910 and 5910 are regarded as having virtually the best 480p component output on any DVD player ever made.Of course... if you have MB, you might think the Denon 1600 looks lots better. ;)

And... last I checked, the 3910 was recently raised to a MSRP of around $1400 and the 5910 was about the price of a Yugo... ;)

My Denon 1600 and my Panasonic RP82 both had equivalent PQ at 480P and they cost alot... alot... alot... less. ;)

Originally posted by merc
Of course... if you have MB, you might think the Denon 1600 looks lots better. ;)

Sorry merc, I'm not following.

Actually I have owned the 1600, as well as the Panny RP91, XP30, XP50 as well as other highly regarded 480p models. Although the differences between all these and the 3910 are relatively small, I do prefer the 3910 by a margin.

And no, there's no macroblocking to be had via my display. None. ;)

BTW Sam,

I have a 3910 in my rack for the last few weeks and I am unimpressed for video and for audio versus the Onkyo SP1000. IMO, the video at 480P with the 3910 is no better than my Denon 1600 and not as good as my fully corrected, Denon 3800. I don't have my Pani 82 or 91 anymore, but I do have a Zenith 318 and sometimes prefer it(for specific DVDs) at 1080i to the 3910 at 480p via component.

However, the 3910 is mostly preferable to the older units when used at 1080i DVI-D via my DVI-D to VGA/RGBHV converter. However, I still prefer the Onkyo used in this manner to the Denon after calibration for PQ.

BUT... I am getting the 3910 modded so I am trying to configure it as best I can for video since I will be stuck with it.... until I can afford to upgrade to a new HDTV.
YMMV.

Sam -

It will take me a couple of days to follow through on investigating the problem. I'll let you know what I come up with.

- Tim

Originally posted by merc

BUT... I am getting the 3910 modded so I am trying to configure it as best I can for video since I will be stuck with it.... until I can afford to upgrade to a new HDTV.
YMMV.

What mod are you doing..SDI?

Two quick things to keep it simple.

1. How do you RESET the 3910? (not re-initialize) Denon's tech said you do it by turning off the player with the small on/off button, then turn it back on while holding the "STOP" button. This doesn't do anything other than my normal power-on procedure.

2. I'm having problems with my unit now that it's updated to -9. Does anybody have -8 or prior that they can send me so I can "roll back"? -8 would be preferred. Thanks.

Can you email these firmware updates?

***EDIT***-I asked this more for Chris's sake. I have -8 already. Since posting the above question, I have had a flood of private messages offering firmware. Thanks to everyone. This is a wonderful community when so many people volunteer to help.

Originally posted by Chris Dotur
Two quick things to keep it simple.

1. How do you RESET the 3910? (not re-initialize) Denon's tech said you do it by turning off the player with the small on/off button, then turn it back on while holding the "STOP" button. This doesn't do anything other than my normal power-on procedure.

2. I'm having problems with my unit now that it's updated to -9. Does anybody have -8 or prior that they can send me so I can "roll back"? -8 would be preferred. Thanks.

What problems are you having? Perhaps initializing is all you need to do. I don't know that there is a way to "reset" it, whatever that is.

Does anyone here know the remote code for the 3910? I'm trying to program an MX-500 universal remote and so far the Denon codes in the booklet that came with the remote aren't working. Thanks.

I have th MX-500, and I just did them manually...it's better. I programmed it so it had pass-thru to my AV for sound, and TV for channels...works great

New firmwares now available on the Denon site for the 3910

ESS-6609-A and SYS-6767-4

1. Corrects blinking IEEE-1394 indicator and sound interuptions after power cycle

2. General video improvement

Originally posted by DigiPete


1. Corrects . . .sound interuptions after power cycle



Does anyone know exaclty what this fix is?

What is a Power Cycle????????

May it address the iLink 'dropout' issues I/Others are having?

Thankyou
KJ

Originally posted by DigiPete
New firmwares now available on the Denon site for the 3910

ESS-6609-A and SYS-6767-4

1. Corrects blinking IEEE-1394 indicator and sound interuptions after power cycle

2. General video improvement

Generally, I wonder what improvement in video there is? :)

Noob owner here: What is the SYS file?

Thanks for the help, guys. I too had BTB problems. I did the -9 update, which went fine. Still no BTB, and now my component video passes a 4:3 signal at all times. Tried re-initializing, resetting all settings, etc. Still an aspect ratio problem. Composite video shows 4:3, which it should. HDMI shows properly.

I rolled back to -8 with the help of people who sent me software. No change.

I just did the -9A update. Still no BTB. Still a 4:3 signal over component. Offhand, I'm not seeing any improvement with -9A. I don't use firewire/Denon Link.

As for the "system reset", the Denon tech told me to hold the stop button while turning on the unit, that it would reset the sytem. (but not roll back the firmware) I asked "are you talking about re-initialization in the update instructions?" He said no. I tried it, no reset.

Older versions of the firmware did support auto detection of anamorphic DVD's via component, although I never could get that to work via DVI even at 480p. On version -6 and earlier it would support auto detect via component 480p if you turned squeeze mode off. I don't know why they axed that in future updates, but it seems from -8 on it no longer worked.

is the -9A still multi-region?

M

Any improvements with the green push (digital) with -9A?

I've got the ESS-6609-A and SYS-6767-4 files on my hard drive ready to burn a CD, but am a bit apprehensive. Of course, posts here on this would be about problems and skew casual readers' impressions of it negatively. Sooo, has ANYBODY upgraded to -9A and found improvememts, or at least no problems? Anybody notice any "general video improvement?"

Greetings,


I installed the - 9 A firmware update this morning. I had the - 8 firmware installed ( I did not bother with the - 9 version ). I watched some video this morning. My problem is that I just upgraded my front projector and really have no reference point. I went from using DVI to HDMI. I have had the new unit for a little over a week. Video quality is superior to my old setup however the contributing factors are probably not related to the - 9 A firmware.

I certainly do not see any negative effects of the - 9 A. I never had a green push problem with my 3910. I watched Superman this morning and image quality was superb. Colors were rich, blacks were deep, overall the image was crisp and free of artifacts.

This is the fourth time I have upgraded my 3910's firmware. I have not had a problem with any of them so far ( knock on wood ).

The one thing I have NEVER done after an upgrade was to reinitialize the unit ( which is the final step of the instructions ). The fixes imposed by the updates have not needed this step to take effect therefore I saw no point. Has anyone else had a different experience??


Regards,

Originally posted by mark antony
is the -9A still multi-region?

M

Greetings,

No. If you install the - 9 A firmware you will no longer have MR capability.


Regards,

shame

Thanks

M

Guys,

I need some help....I am upgrading from my Infinty IL10 bookshelfs ( http://www.soundstage.com/planethifi/pics/200208_infinity.jpg ) to a brand new set of Swan 6.1 fronts ( http://www.theaudioinsider.com/theaudioinsider/images/items/6.1.jpg ) and I'm confused on how the 3910 handles the speaker setup with its 5.1 analog out.

If I change the setup for the front mains to LARGE, will it reduce the signal strength or increase the lowpass frequency or what? I noticed that when I set the fronts to SMALL, there is more LFE coming out of subwoofer (which is a good thing now), and I want to keep that as well when the larger speakers are there...

any ideas?

Originally posted by placidman
Greetings,

No. If you install the - 9 A firmware you will no longer have MR capability.


Regards,

MR ? . Master Reset ?


I upgraded this morning and played one quick video. I had no problems with the upgrade, Ive done all as they became available with out any problems so far. Have not done a master reset to date.

Originally posted by W4ZOO
MR ? . Master Reset ?

No, MR = multi region

Greetings,




If I change the setup for the front mains to LARGE, will it reduce the signal strength or increase the lowpass frequency or what? I noticed that when I set the fronts to SMALL, there is more LFE coming out of subwoofer (which is a good thing now), and I want to keep that as well when the larger speakers are there...

I have large mains and still set my 3910 to small all the way around. With your bookshelf speakers the reason you notcie more bass with them set to small is because the frequencies below the cutoff point ( say 80 hz ) are being steered to the subwoofer. The bookshelfs are probably not capable of delivering bass much below that and that information would be lost for the most part if you set the fronts to large ( with bookshelfs ).

Setting my full range Paradigm Reference speakers to large on the 3910 made to bass sound a bit bloated in my room. Essentially this setting will send bass to both the subwoofer and the front speakers.

Try it both ways and see which sounds best in your environment.


Regards,

where on the denon site are these fw updates posted, the update finder always tells me 'no updates for that model'... tia.

Greetings,

Go to THIS LINK (http://www.usa.denon.com/support/upgrades.asp) and click on the product upgrades tab. Enter your model and serial number. It will then advise if there are any updates available for your unit.


Regards,

well, i've been there, several times, and never a one for my unit. i was curious because i see postings about fw version -9 A, and so on... ok, thanks.

Guys,

We should really not refer to this as version -9A, as it is called 6609-A on the Denon site. In the single digit binary world, "A" would follow 9 as the next highest number.

Plus, this appears to be a substantial ROM revision, so it's not related to -9 in any way.

Originally posted by Sam Scamardo
Guys,

We should really not refer to this as version -9A, as it is called 6609-A on the Denon site. In the single digit binary world, "A" would follow 9 as the next highest number.

Plus, this appears to be a substantial ROM revision, so it's not related to -9 in any way.

Along those lines, has anyone received 6609-A on disc from Denon? I've requested 8, 9, and 6609-A on disc and have not received any of them?

Originally posted by ssabripo
If I change the setup for the front mains to LARGE, will it reduce the signal strength or increase the lowpass frequency or what? I noticed that when I set the fronts to SMALL, there is more LFE coming out of subwoofer (which is a good thing now), and I want to keep that as well when the larger speakers are there...

any ideas?

I've posted my thoughts on large/small on "Speakers" before but never here. IMO, there are no LARGE speakers, at least none that most of us can afford. If speakers do not go to 20HZ or, better yet, 16HZ with clean, robust output, they are not large. A simple test: If your speakers can be improved by a subwoofer, then they were not large in the first place.

Originally posted by placidman
I installed the - 9 A firmware update this morning. I had the - 8 firmware installed ( I did not bother with the - 9 version ).

The fact that there even *is* a "9A" suggests to me there was something not quite right with "9."

Originally posted by Sam Scamardo
Guys,

We should really not refer to this as version -9A, as it is called 6609-A on the Denon site. In the single digit binary world, "A" would follow 9 as the next highest number.

Plus, this appears to be a substantial ROM revision, so it's not related to -9 in any way.

oh, i see, i misread it.

does anyone have a url, other than the support page w/ the pulldown menu of model #s (http://www.usa.denon.com/support/upgrades.asp), for the firmware updates?

thx.

Originally posted by dtich
oh, i see, i misread it.

does anyone have a url, other than the support page w/ the pulldown menu of model #s (http://www.usa.denon.com/support/upgrades.asp), for the firmware updates?

thx.

Doesn't entering your serial number get you to the download?

Originally posted by dtich
oh, i see, i misread it.



Me, too.

Originally posted by pepar
Doesn't entering your serial number get you to the download?

no, it has for weeks only returned: "There are no upgrades available for your product at this time." my serial is 3024512450. am i doing something wrong?

thanks for the help.

Originally posted by dtich
no, it has for weeks only returned: "There are no upgrades available for your product at this time." my serial is 3024512450. am i doing something wrong?

thanks for the help.

Are you certain that is your serial number from the back of the unit? It seems too long, and would indicate your player was made in Feb. 2003. Doesn't seem right...

Just use the serial number off of the rear panel photo of the 3910 at the Denon site. It's obviously one of the first models, so it will qualify for all of the updates. The link is http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/photo.asp?s=home&p=DVD-3910&f=DVD3910S%20Back.jpg&c=4

Jason

Originally posted by Sam Scamardo
Are you certain that is your serial number from the back of the unit? It seems too long, and would indicate your player was made in Feb. 2003. Doesn't seem right...
The serial numbers are indeed 10 digits long (kind of like 4058400007 :D).

Jason

Originally posted by JasonColeman
Just use the serial number off of the rear panel photo of the 3910 at the Denon site. It's obviously one of the first models, so it will qualify for all of the updates. The link is http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/photo.asp?s=home&p=DVD-3910&f=DVD3910S%20Back.jpg&c=4

Jason

good idea, and it worked. so funny that they would not think my serial number warranted an upgrade when it shipped with fw -5... i've upgraded to -9 already but never got the upgrade from the denon site. thanks for the workaround.

JohnG, I think that when a new firmware is about to come out, Denon will delay mailing a firmware disc out to avoid having it be obsolete as soon as it hits the mailbox.

Again, -9A is giving me no problems at all, (except the same aspect ratio issue that all versions above -5 are giving me, see next post) So if you haven't had a problem with -8 or -9, -9A shouldn't give you problems either.

Too bad it doesn't fix BTB, though!

Originally posted by uzun
Older versions of the firmware did support auto detection of anamorphic DVD's via component, although I never could get that to work via DVI even at 480p. On version -6 and earlier it would support auto detect via component 480p if you turned squeeze mode off. I don't know why they axed that in future updates, but it seems from -8 on it no longer worked.

Uzun, I think you hit the nail RIGHT on the head. Thank you SO much for posting this! (where'd you get this info, anyway?) That seems to be EXACTLY the problem I'm having with aspect ratio over component. I figured a work around, what I have to do is go into my 16:9 720p projector (Panasonic PT-AE700) and force it to show a 16:9 image over component, regardless of the aspect ratio being fed to it.

Rather stupid that I have to do this--why in the WORLD would Denon have removed this feature with firmware updates?

The 3910's aspect control is hosed in my opinion. Read back a few weeks and you'll see where I asked about it and several folks chimed in to say what a non-issue it was for them and why was I worried about it. I've tried to call Mr. Denon DVD himself a few times this week but haven't caught him yet. When (if) I do I'm going to try to get his input on whether or not they plan on a fix for it. Kris (author of the Secrets shootouts) says he spoke to them about the aspect issues on the 3910 and although they fixed it ont he 5910, they had no plans to do anything on the 3910. Now a new aspect symptom has cropped up. Maybe if everyone's player starts playing 4:3 only we'll have a concensus it's not right. As it is now, mine plays 16:9 in squeeze off and 4:3 in squeeze on. Period. My 3910 ignores the aspect on properly encoded DVD's. At least I have one that does BTB.

Originally posted by GetGray
As it is now, mine plays 16:9 in squeeze off and 4:3 in squeeze on. Period.

Ahhh, the consistancy of a machine. Ya gotta love it.

:)

Not sure, but I think that it also has to do with your video display. My projector (Panasonic PT-AE700) has different modes, including "Auto", "4:3", and "16:9". The manual says something to the effect that "Auto" will display video in the correct aspect ratio when properly encoded. When I had the original -5 firmware, the PJ worked fine in the Auto mode and would show full-screen 16:9 images with anamorphic widescreen DVD's from the 3910, and 4:3 on 4:3 material from the 3910. Now it's just all 4:3, and I have to manually force the projector to display it as 16:9.

The problem is that the 3910 no longer has the auto-detection, and is now putting out everything in 4:3 to the projector, which in the auto mode reads the signal, says, "okay, this is 4:3 material", and displays it as such.

Again, this seems only to be over component for me. Composite video seems to be correct (always 4:3 anyway) and HDMI, which only shows a progressive output anyway, always correctly shows 16:9.

Has anyone heard anything about the long overdue fix for the BTB issue? I'm starting to get angry about it.

New firmwares now available on the Denon site for the 3910

ESS-6609-A and SYS-6767-4

1. Corrects blinking IEEE-1394 indicator and sound interuptions after power cycle

2. General video improvement



I'd still love to know what a power cycle is? and why it would inperupt the iLink signal. . . :)

Cheers
KJ

I got the aspect ratio info by upgrading my firmware. I noticed it worked fine via component 480p until the -8 update, and has not worked correctly since.

Hi,

do you have an idea whether this new firmware is codefree? If not, I would prefer to stay with my -9 codefree version. Or do you know where to get a new codefree version?

Regards,
Thomas

Thats exactly what I need to know also!

Cheers
Daniel

Any firmware that comes from Denon USA in New Jersey will not be region free.

Originally posted by uzun
I got the aspect ratio info by upgrading my firmware. I noticed it worked fine via component 480p until the -8 update, and has not worked correctly since.

Good to know I'm not the only one. However, when I called Denon tech support, the tech said he had never heard of the aspect ratio problem before, so I thought I was unique. I think others either aren't using component, or their setups cover up the problem like the work-around that I mentioned I had figured out, or they just hadn't said anything.

Greetings,

I for one do not use component from my 3910 and never have. For me, one of the main reasons I went with the 3910 was for it's digital video output (s).

Chris, you have the AE700 which has HDMI in, how come you are using component for DVD?

I will run a set of component cables from my 3910 to my Sony HS51 front projector later tonight and see what I get.


Regards,

Originally posted by placidman
........Chris, you have the AE700 which has HDMI in, how come you are using component for DVD?

........

Fair question! :)

Well, everything's coming together for the completion of the home theater project. I just got my 30' HDMI projector cable and Gefen switcher last night, so up till now I've tested HDMI over short cables with the projector by my equipment rack, but have only used component video with it installed way at the back of the room.

Now that I have HDMI I'll be using it as the primary cabling for the 3910. Unfortunately, when I include the Gefen HDMI switcher so I can also hook up to DVI computer and HD-satellite DVI outputs, it introduces video flicker in all three displays, so for now the 3910's going to have to be the ONLY HDMI source.

So, I'm not going to have to directly face the 3910 component aspect ratio problem. But that doesn't mean that it's not there, and that the problem should not be addressed and fixed by Denon.

Greetings,


Now that I have HDMI I'll be using it as the primary cabling for the 3910. Unfortunately, when I include the Gefen HDMI switcher so I can also hook up to DVI computer and HD-satellite DVI outputs, it introduces video flicker in all three displays, so for now the 3910's going to have to be the ONLY HDMI source.

Chris, I am not sure what you mean by all three displays. Do you mean that when viewed over HDMI through the projector you are getting flicker from all three sources ?

Apparently the problem is not the 30' cable. You must be using three other cables to get video from each source to the HDMI switcher. What type are they ( the ones supplied with the switcher ? ) and have you tried connecting each source one at a time to switcher to see if the flicker problem is present? I use a 2x1 Gefen HDMI switcher and the Ram Rev 2 23 foot HDMI cable along with 2 Gefen 6 foot HDMI cables, no problems.


So, I'm not going to have to directly face the 3910 component aspect ratio problem. But that doesn't mean that it's not there, and that the problem should not be addressed and fixed by Denon.

I don't disagree, however the issue becomes far less relevant when you have no specific use for the component input. I am sure Denon will address the matter. However if it requires for instance that you send your unit in for the fix, will you do so? If the fix can be managed via firmware I would take care of it without hesitation.

Best of luck with the flickering issue.


Regards,

Originally posted by Chris Dotur Not sure, but I think that it also has to do with your video display. My projector (Panasonic PT-AE700) has different modes, including "Auto", "4:3", and "16:9". The manual says something to the effect that "Auto" will display video in the correct aspect ratio when properly encoded. Nope, I've confirmed it's the player. My display can correct it, but the player is sending a stretched to 16:9 image for 4:3 encoded discs (i.e. Avia). I can squeeze it back at the display, but that makes at least one scaling that shouldn't be there. Main thing though is it shoudl be automatic. I've verfied several other players including the 5910 do it properly, just not the 3910.

When I had the original -5 firmware, the PJ worked fine in the Auto mode and would show full-screen 16:9 images with anamorphic widescreen DVD's from the 3910, and 4:3 on 4:3 material from the 3910. Now it's just all 4:3, and I have to manually force the projector to display it as 16:9. which is also wrong as you agree.

Again, this seems only to be over component for me. Composite video seems to be correct (always 4:3 anyway) and HDMI, which only shows a progressive output anyway, always correctly shows 16:9. [/B] Mine is over DVI, never tried it over component, I don't own composite cables, can't test there. Progressive dosen't mean 16:9. The 4:3 flag is encoded on the DVD during the authoring process, I author DVD's all the time and encode the apsect as required. The 3910 ignores it. Per Kris Deering of Secrets, they fixed it on the 5910 which does it automatically now for example of the same mfgr. Pioneer 59avi does, too.

This is all so frustrating because it is all so simple. And to have had a feature and then lose it really ratchets it up. Grrr.

I'm just glad that I haven't upgraded mine!

Dave

Maybe the "aspect ratio" problem is a hardware upgrade issue like apparently the "passing BTB" issue is... maybe, like the BTB upgrade, we'll need to pay to send in our units to NJ or CA too???

Originally posted by Dave Vaughn
I'm just glad that I haven't upgraded mine!

Dave

I can't say that as there have been improvements that, IMO, outweigh the inconvenience of going into the menu.

Originally posted by merc
Maybe the "aspect ratio" problem is a hardware upgrade issue like apparently the "passing BTB" issue is... maybe, like the BTB upgrade, we'll need to pay to send in our units to NJ or CA too???

You know, of course, that owners in CA will need to send theirs to NJ and those in NJ will have to send theirs to CA? Those in between will be determined by a coin toss.

You know, of course, that owners in CA will need to send theirs to NJ and those in NJ will have to send theirs to CA? Those in between are determined by a coin toss.Well of course... :)
Then again, those of us who bought from local authorized dealers less than 30 days ago only need to take the unit back to the dealer.... I hope. ;)

Since it seems that they "broke" aspect ratio detection with firmware, I'd bet that they can fix it with firmware. Thinking that they would have fixed the BTB problem by now if they could have in one of the many, many firmware revs, this problem may be hardware.

Thinking that they would have fixed the BTB problem by now if they could have in one of the many, many firmware revs, this problem may be hardware.Check the BTB Poll thread for more info on this.... :(

Originally posted by Chris Dotur
JohnG, I think that when a new firmware is about to come out, Denon will delay mailing a firmware disc out to avoid having it be obsolete as soon as it hits the mailbox.

Too bad it doesn't fix BTB, though!

Thanks for the reply.

I just went ahead and downloaded it from the website.

Originally posted by merc
Check the BTB Poll thread for more info on this.... :(

Mine does, but what's up with the 26.92% who don't care/think it matters?

Noob question here: Can someone succinctly verbalize exactly why it does matter?

Noob question here: Can someone succinctly verbalize exactly why it does matter?It may only matter to those of us with displays, CRT based, which can properly display BTB scenes correctly in the first place. I owned a nice LCD HDTV for a week but simply had to return it since it showed shadows and black shaded areas in a very splotchy unrealistic manner. That experience probably made me more attune to seeing it.

If you don't notice grey blacks, and don't intend to ever sell your 3910, or don't ever intend on upgrading to a display which can show you good blacks, .... then, there is absolutely no reason to worry about BTBs at all.

I can't wait to hear the answers!!! :D

Originally posted by merc
It may only matter to those of us with displays, CRT based, which can properly display BTB scenes correctly in the first place. I owned a nice LCD HDTV for a week but simply had to return it since it showed shadows and black shaded areas in a very splotchy unrealistic manner. That experience probably made me more attune to seeing it.

If you don't notice grey blacks, and don't intend to ever sell your 3910, or don't ever intend on upgrading to a display which can show you good blacks, .... then, there is absolutely no reason to worry about BTBs at all.

I'm using a Sony HS20 and a 3910 that passes below black. I set the pj properly using Video Essentials and am - for the most part - happy with the blacks I see on my perfed Stewart Firehawk. I do aspire to a better pj with better blacks (but can't imagine it being a CRT). All in all, I'm a very happy camper with my 3910. Part of that is that it is an upgrade from my 480i component-out Pioneer DV-05.

Hey Guys!!!!!

Here is how to tell if your unit has not been upgraded for BTB.

According to a very nice, quick responding Denon guy, you need to look at your original Denon box for the 3910.

If it has a pair of filled in circles(as in black circles), it has been upgraded to the latest BTB hardware.
If the circles are open, you might want to send it into Denon?

I'll repost this into in the BTB poll thread too for all to read.

Originally posted by merc
Hey Guys!!!!!

Here is how to tell if your unit has not been upgraded for BTB.

According to a very nice, quick responding Denon guy, you need to look at your original Denon box for the 3910.

If it has a pair of filled in circles(as in black circles), it has been upgraded to the latest BTB hardware.
If the circles are open, you might want to send it into Denon?

I'll repost this into in the BTB poll thread too for all to read.

The "latest" hardware? Mine's an October build and it worked right out of the box. Not sure I understand this, merc.

I expect he means for "going foward" units. They are probably marking th eones that they are now fixing before shipping. Any before the marking and after Aug sometime will be broken for BTB,

The "latest" hardware? Mine's an October build and it worked right out of the box. Not sure I understand this, merc.Since mine unit, bought less than 2 weeks ago, has a June build date, and double black dots on the box, I am not sure I understand it either.... eek?

But, I am simply passing along what Denon has told me............ (initial Denon contact is very good,,,, but, I think I'll see what happens before I really get pissed for us all?)

Hey Merc: As long as you apper to be conversing with them, can you ask if they are aware of the Aspect problems, and if there is any plans afoot to fix them? In particular the failure to have an automatic detection of 4:3 and 16:9 encoded discs played over DVI? Thanks, Scott

Sure... but since I didn't experience that problem, could you please list the SPECIFIC ASPECT SITUATIONS AND OCCURANCES which need to be corrected in a single post like this.

Thanks for your help!!!

Take Care,
merc
PS - thats a small letter m in merc... thanks!

About aspect ratio detection. First make sure squeeze mode is OFF in setup. Next play an anamorphically enhanced disc (LOTR:ROTK widescreen for example) via 480p component using -6 or earlier firmware. The component output signal at 480p includes information that identifies this material as 16x9 enhanced. Most displays, all consumer Sony displays for example, will set their zoom mode correctly to display the image properly. Now eject the disc and play Citizen Kane, the -6 or earlier firmware on the 3910 will now identify this material as non-enhanced and your consumer display will automatically change it's zoom mode to accomdate this 4x3 material. In the case of the Sony the Zoom mode will go to FULL when playing LOTR and back to NORMAL when playing Citizen Kane.

Now update the 3910 to -8 or later firmware. Do the exact same test using 480p component. Note that the information is no longer sent to the display via component outs. The display will never change from FULL to NORMAL, because the firmware no longer sends this information to the display.

Using 480p DVI/HDMI the Denon 3910 never sent this information to the display (the anamorphic or normal info). I believe it could and probably should, but even earlier firmware didn't.

Originally posted by merc
Sure... but since I didn't experience that problem, could you please list the SPECIFIC ASPECT SITUATIONS AND OCCURANCES which need to be corrected in a single post like this.

Thanks for your help!!!

Take Care,
merc
PS - thats a small letter m in merc... thanks! Sure merc ;), here's my example which is different from uzun's:

Setup:
16:9 display
DVI out
720p
Squeeze mode off

Play a 4:3 DVD, i.e. Avia consumer version. - 3910 plays it as 16:9, (stretched).

Setup:
16:9 display
DVI out
720p
Squeeze mode on

Play a 16:9 flagged DVD, i.e. Monsters, Inc. - 3910 plays it as 4:3.

Need a mode for Squeeze = auto where the player will detect the proper aspect flag encoded on the DVD and play it correctly. Only for DVD's that are improperly flagged would one need to be able to force it to 16:9 (squeeze always off) or 4:3 (squeeze always on).

In the real world there are DVD's with both 16:9 and 4:3 flagged material. Trailers are an example. The 3910 cannot play those correctly. One or the other will be wrong. You can't go into the setup menu and be switching back and forth on the fly. The player should do it.

Thanks,
Scott

Scott, you can make the switch from 16x9 to 4x3 with the little twisty knob on the front of the unit. You make it sound as if your forced to go through layers and layers of set-up menus, thats not the case. As for trailers, try using the >>> button on the remote or hit stop twice and then hit play. ;)

Originally posted by Tom Grooms
Scott, you can make the switch from 16x9 to 4x3 with the little twisty knob on the front of the unit. You make it sound as if your forced to go through layers and layers of set-up menus, thats not the case. As for trailers, try using the >>> button on the remote or hit stop twice and then hit play. ;) For $1500, I shouldn't have manually force the player to display the correct aspect, via menus, buttons or voice command. It should read the aspect flag off a properly authored DVD on it's own. It's in the DVD spec, it should do it. It is an error that it does not. Yes, you can manually work around it, please see a posts few weeks back if you want to beat that horse, it stinks.

And now users are reporting their unit ONLY does 4:3. That's not correct, either.

Originally posted by Tom Grooms
Scott, you can make the switch from 16x9 to 4x3 with the little twisty knob on the front of the unit. You make it sound as if your forced to go through layers and layers of set-up menus, thats not the case. As for trailers, try using the >>> button on the remote or hit stop twice and then hit play. ;)

This thread has passed this way before. Some think that this caliber of gear should auto detect and make the appropriate adjustment, while others think it's no big deal to change the setting manually. Actually, both are right.

As I stated in the previous discussion, PQ and audio quality are more important to me than auto squeeze. Yes, it would be nice to do it automatically, but this is not a deal breaker for me.

Voice command would be cool though..:D :p

my recent two cents: i emailed denon again, saying what's taking so long? they emailed back "call denon nj"; i called jim mcg (nice guy, prob way overworked at this point!) he said: send the unit in for repair on the btb issue, it is firmware, but not field accessible; he hasn't heard about the anamorphic squeeze issue; and they are fixing the website to properly look up serial numbers.... sigh.

this sucks. i will call them back and haggle about the $30+ it will cost me to ship this to them, but really i just want the dang thing fixed....

Originally posted by keenan
Voice command would be cool though..:D :p

Not for us. We would be pulling the disk tray out of the opposite wall all the time.

Allen

Originally posted by pepar
Noob question here: Can someone succinctly verbalize exactly why it does matter? [/B]

It's kind of like owning a Ferrari. Chances are you don't really need to go 180mph but since you paid $250K for it better well go 180mph.

I have a Aug. 04 build date with 2 empty circles on the box and it does not pass BTB hooked up via HDMI to my Sony 34XBR960. The picture is awesome anyway. So instead of doing 180 my Ferrari can only do 160. It would be nice to have that extra 20mph but do I need it enough to ship it back to Denon????

Originally posted by JohnGZ28
The picture is awesome anyway. So instead of doing 180 my Ferrari can only do 160. It would be nice to have that extra 20mph but do I need it enough to ship it back to Denon????

The speedo will go to 180 after the fix, but you wont notice any difference between 180 and 160 !

Originally posted by BillP
As I stated in the previous discussion, PQ and audio quality are more important to me than auto squeeze. Yes, it would be nice to do it automatically, but this is not a deal breaker for me.

Me either, especially if it is just for watching 'trailers', the quality of which are usually crap anyway, or the usual boring mutual back patting extras.

Originally posted by placidman
Chris, I am not sure what you mean by all three displays. Do you mean that when viewed over HDMI through the projector you are getting flicker from all three sources ?


Whoops, I mis-spoke. Yes, when going through the Gefen switcher I'm getting flicker each of my digital video sources--computer DVI, HD satellite DVI, and 3910 HDMI. Removing the switcher and going direct to each of the three sources with my 30' Gefen cable removes the flicker and displays beautifully. (except BTB on the 3910) Anyways, the problem there seems to be with my new Gefen switcher and doesn't pertain to the 3910, so that's not important here I suppose.

As for the two black circles on the 3910 box: I assume the circles you are talking about are the smaller stamped circles stamped below the white stickie label with the serial number and NOT the larger pre-printed black circles right on the edge of the box, printed with the rest of the box labeling. My data:

Two hollow black circles
Build date Oct 2004
No BTB
Aspect ratio problem over component video
Firmware -9A

Originally posted by JohnGZ28
It's kind of like owning a Ferrari. Chances are you don't really need to go 180mph but since you paid $250K for it better well go 180mph.

I have a Aug. 04 build date with 2 empty circles on the box and it does not pass BTB hooked up via HDMI to my Sony 34XBR960. The picture is awesome anyway. So instead of doing 180 my Ferrari can only do 160. It would be nice to have that extra 20mph but do I need it enough to ship it back to Denon????

No, it is more like having an airplane that can't go underground.

If your brightness is set properly on your Sony 34XB960, you will never see blacker than black. The lack of it does not affect your picture quality whatsoever.

On displays that are unable to hold a consistent black level, it can be nice to have a player that passes BTB, but with a display that has a stable black level (which your 34XBR960 does if set to Pro and perhaps some of the other modes, and certainly if calibrated) it doesn't make any difference at all.

Originally posted by Cheezmo
No, it is more like having an airplane that can't go underground.

If your brightness is set properly on your Sony 34XBR960, you will never see blacker than black. The lack of it does not affect your picture quality whatsoever.

On displays that are unable to hold a consistent black level, it can be nice to have a player that passes BTB, but with a display that has a stable black level (which your 34XBR960 does if set to Pro and perhaps some of the other modes, and certainly if calibrated) it doesn't make any difference at all.

I can live with that.

I have it set up in PRO with a few tweaks. The TV is less than 1 month old so I haven't had it professionally calibrated yet.

Seems like there is some confusion over how to check your box to see if your 3910 has already been updated. At least I was confused. :)

The place you want to look on the box is just under the units serial number as seen on this page.
Denon 3910 BTB Issue (http://www.kgjack.com/denon_3910.htm)

Sorry for any confusion I may have caused...

Originally posted by merc
Seems like there is some confusion over how to check your box to see if your 3910 has already been updated. At least I was confused. :)

The place you want to look on the box is just under the units serial number as seen on this page.
Denon 3910 BTB Issue (http://www.kgjack.com/denon_3910.htm)

Sorry for any confusion I may have caused...

As it's still morning and I've not started Friday happy hour yet, I'm pretty sure it's not my eyes, but I DO see black dots on the top picture contrary to what the text says.

pepar,

I altered the wording on the page to better explain which dots are the correct ones, which signify the upgraded units. Hope is is more understandable now. :)

Originally posted by merc
pepar,

I altered the wording on the page to better explain which dots are the correct ones, which signify the upgraded units. Hope is is more understandable now. :)

Gotcha. If you want to expand your comparison, here's a shot (http://www.agedwoods.com/ebay2/oct04_build.jpg) of a unit with an Oct '04 build date that passes below black. You're welcome to copy it and post it on your site.

If you want to expand your comparison, here's a shot of a unit with an Oct '04 build date that passes below black.Egad... now I have to contact Denon again. They didn't say anything about boxes which don't have ANY circles/balls under the serial number. :(

That is a august build date. 4 is the year the 08 is the month which is august,

Originally posted by kevinca1
That is a august build date. 4 is the year the 08 is the month which is august,

You're right; I read the date directly off of the unit when I got it, and then promptly forgot it. Us "pre-problem" owners are a carefree lot. :)

Kevin,

Are you sure? Mine is labeled as June, 2004 but here is my serial number: 4108406*** . Maybe, the 5th, 6th and 7th digits are the year and month?

Or... maybe I need to go and pull it outta the rack to re-check the manufacture date???

Merc i am positive this is how denon does ther serial numbers. mine is a 406 and that is a june build date. is says it on the player it self. by the way mine has the two black dots, yours is a oct build date unless some one has switched the unit and put it in a different box.

ok i'm gonna go look . .

2004
August

Also both serial numbers should match if not theres something wrong.

Kevin,

YUP, you are absolutely right! Mine is labeled October, 2004.
I guess I was confusing it with the build date on the Onkyo DVD player. :(
Thanks!

No problem, Mine is a june like i said also has the black dots. which really are suppose to be for the color of the item. if there is a update they usally put a sticker on it are around them.

Mine is a june like i said also has the black dots. which really are suppose to be for the color of the item. if there is a update they usally put a sticker on it are around them.Kevin,
Go HERE (http://www.kgjack.com/denon_3910.htm) to see which dots/circles you need to look for....

Mine has those and like i said the indicate the color of the item. if it was silver you woud have silver circles.

My June (406) built unit as no dots (on the box) but passes BTB via the THX setup.

Thats odd. I know they use them so they will know the color of the item inside,

Mine has those and like i said the indicate the color of the item. if it was silver you woud have silver circles.Kevin,
which dots/circles does your box have? Only the ones located under the serial number supposedly indicate whether or not the units have already been upgraded.

Go here http://www.kgjack.com/denon_3910.htm
and look at the second picture on the page. The first picture is probably the indicator of the units color but has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

As for those who have no dots or filled in dots, under their serial numbers, I am guessing that those units were built prior to whatever change Denon made which is causing the newer built players to not pass black?

Ok merc i see what you ae saying, No mine does not have those under the serial number but on the other two corners. mine is like your firt pic and mine does pass btb.

I updated the page to include units which have no circles or dots under the serial numbers.... click on the link below and then refresh your page to see it.

http://www.kgjack.com/denon_3910.htm

Originally posted by merc
As for those who have no dots or filled in dots, under their serial numbers, I am guessing that those units were built prior to whatever change Denon made which is causing the newer built players to not pass black?

I'd hope that the circles were originally put on the box for some other reason than to signify the unit did NOT pass below black, and that the filled-in circles - dots - was just a clever mod of the circles to signify a "fixed" unit. Otherwise, that means they knew the units did not pass below black.

I'd hope that the circles were originally put on the box for some other reason than to signify the unit did NOT pass below black, and that the filled-in circles - dots - was just a clever mod of the circles to signify a "fixed" unit. Otherwise, that means they knew the units did not pass below black.Not necessarily. My guess is that around Sept or October, Denon decided to change some parts in the 3910 in order to either reduce manufacturing costs, or because those parts being replaced had become hard to get?
So, in order to identify stock with the changed parts, they put the circles on the boxes under the serial number.
Recently, those parts had become available again and in those units they fill in the circles.

At least that's a possibility??? ;)

Originally posted by pepar
I'd hope that the circles were originally put on the box for some other reason than to signify the unit did NOT pass below black, and that the filled-in circles - dots - was just a clever mod of the circles to signify a "fixed" unit. Otherwise, that means they knew the units did not pass below black.

I suspect Denon for probably knowing of the scenario.
In september and october many parts of the world were crying out to get this player.

It's also strange that we now, 6 months later, get aware of the marked boxes and Denon apperantly say that i might need upgrade.

Does players produced today come with any circles, or are they removed as new players pass BTB?

Spoke to Jim at Denon today. Has no known plans to address the aspect issues I whined about.

Any chance anyone here has looked at the new Oppo OPDV971H that just got a smoking score on secrets? Sure like to know how it compares subjectively to DVI over the 3910.

I've always been attracted to well-known, established names such as OPPO. :D

Originally posted by merc
Not necessarily. My guess is that around Sept or October, Denon decided to change some parts in the 3910 in order to either reduce manufacturing costs, or because those parts being replaced had become hard to get?
So, in order to identify stock with the changed parts, they put the circles on the boxes under the serial number.
Recently, those parts had become available again and in those units they fill in the circles.

At least that's a possibility??? ;)

This scenario probably coincides with the price increase as well.

Originally posted by pepar
I've always been attracted to well-known, established names such as OPPO. :D

Isn't it amazing that a $200 "no name" player puts out a better picture than a $1500 Denon? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by shiznit
Isn't it amazing that a $200 "no name" player puts out a better picture than a $1500 Denon? :rolleyes:

Well, that *would* be amazing. Have you seen them side by side? You speak in present tense as a fait accompli, so you must have. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by shiznit
Isn't it amazing that a $200 "no name" player puts out a better picture than a $1500 Denon? :rolleyes:
What do you base that on? A Secret's score? Kris Deering is always the 1st to say that the scores are not for direct comparisons (a player with a score of 94 is not necessarily better than one with a score of 93). And it sounds like the Oppo has worse MB than the 3910 (which is not part of the score). So no, I don't think your statement is true. This reminds me of some Zenith 318 owners who used to brag that their machine was "better" than the 5900 since the 5900 had MB - until it was widely apparent that the Zenith also had MB and in fact was not as good as the 5900 for overall PQ. You can argue that the Oppo is a better value than the 3910 (although it is not a universal player and I'm sure does not compare for build quality or reliablity), but not a "better" player. I'll take the 3910 anyday.

Man that MB tarnish PQ so much, just compare 3910 with 94 with MB and 59avi, 87 without MB!

Originally posted by zoro
Man that MB tarnish PQ so much, just compare 3910 with 94 with MB and 59avi, 87 without MB!

Huh?

I am talking here for personal experience! on same display

Originally posted by BillP
What do you base that on? A Secret's score? Kris Deering is always the 1st to say that the scores are not for direct comparisons (a player with a score of 94 is not necessarily better than one with a score of 93). And it sounds like the Oppo has worse MB than the 3910 (which is not part of the score). So no, I don't think your statement is true. This reminds me of some Zenith 318 owners who used to brag that their machine was "better" than the 5900 since the 5900 had MB - until it was widely apparent that the Zenith also had MB and in fact was not as good as the 5900 for overall PQ. You can argue that the Oppo is a better value than the 3910 (although it is not a universal player and I'm sure does not compare for build quality or reliablity), but not a "better" player. I'll take the 3910 anyday.

okay, let me rephrase then:

Isn't it amazing a $200 "no name" player is technically better than a $1500 Denon player. There, feel better now?

I just love trolls. (not referring to shiznit)

Allen

Originally posted by shiznit
Isn't it amazing that a $200 "no name" player puts out a better picture than a $1500 Denon? :rolleyes:


LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

you are not the "brightest star in the sky", are you?! Did you even read the article, or did you just fixate on the score....

oh, and btw, Kris was very direct to me when he said the 3910 was the best PQ he has seen to date (5910 excluded)....and that includes the Oppo.

congrats to Oppo for a quality DVD for $200, but that's like saying "man, check this out, isn't it embarrasing that the Nissan Sentra SE-R scored better than the BMW M3 ?"

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/images/smilies/slap.gif

FYI, the Oppo won't do automatic Aspects, either (yet). Only option is Pioneer 59avi for that feature and good marks. Anxious to see Kris's upcoming review of it.

Originally posted by ssabripo
congrats to Oppo for a quality DVD for $200, but that's like saying "man, check this out, isn't it embarrasing that the Nissan Sentra SE-R scored better than the BMW M3 ?"

Hey, now!

Originally posted by ssabripo
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

you are not the "brightest star in the sky", are you?! Did you even read the article, or did you just fixate on the score....

oh, and btw, Kris was very direct to me when he said the 3910 was the best PQ he has seen to date (5910 excluded)....and that includes the Oppo.

congrats to Oppo for a quality DVD for $200, but that's like saying "man, check this out, isn't it embarrasing that the Nissan Sentra SE-R scored better than the BMW M3 ?"

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/images/smilies/slap.gif

I made over $85K last year. Bright enough for you?

Also, you obviously didn't read my follow up post.

Originally posted by ssabripo
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

you are not the "brightest star in the sky", are you?! Did you even read the article, or did you just fixate on the score....

oh, and btw, Kris was very direct to me when he said the 3910 was the best PQ he has seen to date (5910 excluded)....and that includes the Oppo.

congrats to Oppo for a quality DVD for $200, but that's like saying "man, check this out, isn't it embarrasing that the Nissan Sentra SE-R scored better than the BMW M3 ?"

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/images/smilies/slap.gif

Frontal asaults lead to frontal defenses. Flanking maneuvers are much better. And, better yet, subtle ones can go unnoticed.

Originally posted by shiznit
I made over $85K last year. Bright enough for you?

Also, you obviously didn't read my follow up post.

WOW!! you are my hero!!!!!:rolleyes:

well, since I want to keep this civilized for the sake of the rest of the AVSers, I wont feed into this nonsense.

anyway, get the Oppo and be happy if you are excited about it.....I am sure you are about the only one here or in the 59avi forum that will think the Oppo actually has better PQ in real life...

enjoy it

What does ones salary have to do with ones intelligence or perceptiveness? Am I the only one who doesn't understand the relevance of the I made $85k last year comment?

Originally posted by uzun
What does ones salary have to do with ones intelligence or perceptiveness? Am I the only one who doesn't understand the relevance of the I made $85k last year comment?

We all pretty much understand it. That's why we're not . . saying . . a . . word. Shhhh!

As I stated previously, the Oppo is a great value, and is certainly an excellent option for the sub $300 player market (it might give the Panny S97 a good run for its money). But please, it is not a 59ai, 3910, 5910, etc, etc. shiznit, have you actually compared these players first hand? Although the secret's scores are very useful, and we all greatly appreciate Kris' efforts, they are merely a guide and a measure for some of the components of PQ that can be measured (and MB, which plagues the Oppo, is not one of them) and is not a substitute for actually viewing the players. Plus, audio, build quality, and reliablity are also not included in the scores.

Yes BillP I realize that and gave my reply.

In case you didn't read it the first time, here it is again:

Isn't it amazing a $200 "no name" player is technically better than a $1500 Denon player.

Why does everyone have to be so defensive around here?

The score is on Secret's for everyone to see. I am not making this stuff up.

Originally posted by shiznit
Yes BillP I realize that and gave my reply.

In case you didn't read it the first time, here it is again:

Isn't it amazing a $200 "no name" player is technically better than a $1500 Denon player.

Why does everyone have to be so defensive around here?

The score is on Secret's for everyone to see. I am not making this stuff up.

guys, lets leave mr. 150+IQ and his near 6-figure salary alone..... its obvious he is nowhere near understanding the point we are trying to make. I give him credit for successfully hijackin this tread for about 1/3 of a page....


Back to the 3910 Owner's Thread topics...


Since the 9A firmware is out, and it was supposed to have "General Video" improvements, has anyone actually seen any improvements?

I'm still on -8, and waiting....

I'm still on -8 as well. I'll probably wait for the next firmware, which rumor has it might address the BTB issue.

nope you got to send your unit to Denon for a hardware fix!

Originally posted by mismatched
nope you got to send your unit to Denon for a hardware fix!

The Dr. is correct...

"The unit can now be updated to adjust for the BTB problem. This firmware fix is one that we have to do here in N.J. and can’t be done by firmware disc by you in the field."

Having just got my 3910 and unwilling to read 150 pages of posts (I guess I'm just basically lazy) I have only recently been reading the posts. So now here comes the stupid question of the week (probably stupid 'cause I was makin $85K per year 15 years ago). How do I tell if my unit has a problem with BTB?

OK, now I'm going to duck into this here fox hole while the shots come my way. :D

Do you have Digital Video Essentals? or try to find a dvd with the THX optimizer and you should be able to tell.

Yes, I have DVE. Now what?

Do you know how to navagate it?go to chapter 12. and you should find it there.

OK, Thanks! I'll go do it right now.

If it does pass BtB you will see three test bars. if not it does not.

Originally posted by kevinca1
If it does pass BtB you will see three test bars. if not it does not.

but you might have to turn the brightness up to see the bar on the far left!

Yes mis but im sure he knows that, also what setting is the ire at?

just trying to be helpful :) don't get in a twit! :D