Excellent. Anything on the release notes?

Here are some details.

You'll need 3 CD's to upgrade.
Corrects CD playback problem with discs that have 10 or more tracks
Corrects problems with Raging Bull and River Dance DVD's
A few HDMI and Firewire improvements

Uhh...if those are all the improvements, I think I'll skip this upgrade.

Did my upgrade to -B tonight. Definitely a more extensive upgrade than previous versions, requiring 3 seperate discs (!). According to Denon this firmware mainly improves 1394 and HDMI functionality.

Still no DL3.

Originally posted by mattbugz
Here are some details.

You'll need 3 CD's to upgrade.
Corrects CD playback problem with discs that have 10 or more tracks
Corrects problems with Raging Bull and River Dance DVD's
A few HDMI and Firewire improvements

Uhh...if those are all the improvements, I think I'll skip this upgrade.

I'm with you. I'll hang on for a month or two to see if DL3 materializes. If so I'll update then.

DigiPete

The accompanying PDF with this new firmware (*-B) says this firmware is not backward compatible. Does it mean one must have *-A first before installing *-B?

It didn't appear to me that you needed -A before doing -B. Rather, they don't want you mixing discs from older firmwares in the middle of the process. I'm not even sure how you'd go about that, but I guess there is some potential for disaster.

Rather, they don't want you mixing discs from older firmwares in the middle of the process.

...Or may be they don't want the user to change sequence of these three CDs in which to install *-B. Confusion..confusion...

I think it means, both.

You must install exactly as they specify.

And, if you decide to revert to older firmware, you cannot, because you have no earlier CNE firmware with which to go back.

This is a one way upgrade. Like the -A upgrade. Choose carefully.

Greetings,

I have the - A firmware installed currently. I use HDMI and will install the newer firmware later today. I will report back with any newsworthy info.


Regards,

But, why don't want some of you to install a specific firmware? I suppose that it is good for the DVD player. Maybe I don't understand something because I don't have the 3910 yet, but I think that a upgrading is something that improves the player. Could you explain to me why some of you don't want to install an upgrading? It's not good?
And where can I get the cd's to upgrade?
Are thy for free?
Thanks.

Originally posted by pitxi
But, why don't want some of you to install a specific firmware? I suppose that it is good for the DVD player. Maybe I don't understand something because I don't have the 3910 yet, but I think that a upgrading is something that improves the player. Could you explain to me why some of you don't want to install an upgrading? It's not good?
And where can I get the cd's to upgrade?
Are thy for free?
Thanks.

There are many reasons why someone may put off upgrading:

1. Anytime you upgrade the firmware, there is a very small risk of a failure which could disable your player.

2. If your machine works fine, you may not need to upgrade.

3. This latest upgrade requires 3 cd's. And there may be another upgrade in a month. So why not wait until the next upgrade is available?

Denon's website in the US has the upgrades available online, or you can request them by mail.

I spoke with tech support this morning because I thought that I'd screwed-up my player with the latest firmware install (this was not the case). He informed me that he thought the the Denon Link III would be available for download in about three weeks which would put it around the June time frame.
Time will tell shortly.

Okay i have one question it might have been answered before but the thread is so long. Does the 3910 suffer from "chroma bug"?

Originally posted by sdkkds
Okay i have one question it might have been answered before but the thread is so long. Does the 3910 suffer from "chroma bug"?

No it does not.

Thank you.

One thing I would caution is if the -B firmware is not back wards compatible, upgrading to the -B version might prevent you from installing an older region free firmware. You might have to wait until a new region free version surfaced to make your player region free again.

Has anyone reinstalled an older version of the firmware after installing even the -A version?

I'm a bit curious. How does one get non-North America region DVDs, and why would one want them? I'm asking this of North Americans . . .

Originally posted by pepar
I'm a bit curious. How does one get non-North America region DVDs, and why would one want them? I'm asking this of North Americans . . .

Hey all, I got my 3910 yesterday and only had time to quickly plug it in to my set and fire it up for about 15 min, but what I saw was luscious.

As to non-North American DVDs, I have a friend and colleague who travels abroad regularly and stays for periods of months at a time. He always returns with DVDs purchased abroad and is forced to watch them on a laptop whose DVD drive is now stuck in another region mode other than the U.S. (it will only switch over a limited number of times). That is at least one way U.S. residents could end up with non-U.S. region DVDs :)

someone please post the PQ results when installing -B firmware.....did it improve anything in PQ? let me know...

Originally posted by pepar
I'm a bit curious. How does one get non-North America region DVDs, and why would one want them? I'm asking this of North Americans . . .

You can order them online from any number of sites. Among the reasons to want them are movies that have not been released in the US are often available overseas, and sometimes the oversea version of a movie can be of better quality, pretty common with far eastern movies like Hero and House of Flying Daggers.

Originally posted by macattack27
I spoke with tech support this morning because I thought that I'd screwed-up my player with the latest firmware install (this was not the case). He informed me that he thought the the Denon Link III would be available for download in about three weeks which would put it around the June time frame.
Time will tell shortly.

Check out this announcement about Denon Link 3 at audioholics

http://www.audioholics.com/

Looks pretty official :)

Originally posted by BenDover
Hey all, I got my 3910 yesterday and only had time to quickly plug it in to my set and fire it up for about 15 min, but what I saw was luscious.

As to non-North American DVDs, I have a friend and colleague who travels abroad regularly and stays for periods of months at a time. He always returns with DVDs purchased abroad and is forced to watch them on a laptop whose DVD drive is now stuck in another region mode other than the U.S. (it will only switch over a limited number of times). That is at least one way U.S. residents could end up with non-U.S. region DVDs :)

Congratulations on the new aquisition! Enjoy.

The "3 switches and you're done" region thing on a computer, laptop or other-wise, has GOT to be a registry or firmware issue. I'd be really surprised it there was not a "workaround" out there somewhere. But I see your point.

DigiPete
Oh yeah baby!
3805 is good to go, 3910 needs update, either diy or send it in. I'll send it in if I have to. This is really great news to us who have been whining about this for awhile, and gave up hope. Thanks Denon

Originally posted by tsteves
DigiPete
Oh yeah baby!
3805 is good to go, 3910 needs update, either diy or send it in. I'll send it in if I have to. This is really great news to us who have been whining about this for awhile, and gave up hope. Thanks Denon

I really had given up on this.

I believe it is a firmware update like all the rest.

Should be easy to do...

DigiPete

OK, I checked the firmware version out on my player out of the box and the first number displayed was "6609-2"

I downloaded the new firmware yesterday but don't want to update as of yet since I haven't even messed around with the player that much and would also like to wait for feedback.

What was the version of the firmware before this latest release? How old is the firmware on my player atm?

9b seems to be the latest firmware in the US, and another will be coming up with the D3 update. What´s the latest multi region firmware.. and will the next one with the D3 update also include everything that 9b in the US has?

Do the players actually have to be sent in in order to fix BTB problems!? I actually haven´t checked mine with a THX test... is it possible to know if by the serial number of the player if it passes BTB or not(I live in Iceland so I can´t really send in the player)?

keyser,

Look here for info on your unit and BTB.

http://www.kgjack.com/denon_3910.htm

Thanks.. but I threw away the box as soon as I opened it, which means that is no good for me?

What is the build date Keyser?

Where can I see that?

On the back of the unit or the first 3 numbers in the serial number. For example my first three are 406 which is 2004 june build date. The 4 is year the 06 is the month,

Mine is 407, which would be july 04. Is that bad batch?

Nope you have one that does pass btb so you are fine.

Will upgrading a firmware effect the default picture settings in the 3910? I just got my display calibrated and would hate to lose the settings.

Originally posted by uddinz
Will upgrading a firmware effect the default picture settings in the 3910? I just got my display calibrated and would hate to lose the settings.
Usually the instructions require you to reinitialize your player, so you will loose all your settings. I would go through and write them all down so you can re-enter them after your firmware update.

Originally posted by DigiPete
Usually the instructions require you to reinitialize your player, so you will loose all your settings. I would go through and write them all down so you can re-enter them after your firmware update.

At what firmware update did the instructions call for reinitializing? I've updated three times I think and I don't recall this. I did just put an order in for the latest update, but I would not want to reinitialize if it meant losing the current settings. I am also hesitant to do any updates that would not allow you to revert to a previous version. The only exception to this would be the forthcoming one allowing Denon Link 3, which I am anxiously awaiting.

All firmware updates instructed you to re-initialize the player as the final step, after checking the version. This latest one instructs you to as well.

Originally posted by DigiPete
Usually the instructions require you to reinitialize your player, so you will loose all your settings. I would go through and write them all down so you can re-enter them after your firmware update.

Do any of the upgrades change the output in any way so that simply returning the settings to their pre-upgrade status no longer produces the same picture? (I'd imagine the Denon fix for the BTB problem does.)

Originally posted by pepar
Do any of the upgrades change the output in any way so that simply returning the settings to their pre-upgrade status no longer produces the same picture? (I'd imagine the Denon fix for the BTB problem does.)

Not in my experience. And I've done them all. I'm currently running 6609-B.

Originally posted by uzun
All firmware updates instructed you to re-initialize the player as the final step, after checking the version. This latest one instructs you to as well.

I am looking at the instructions for version -6, the last update I've done, and I don't see anything about re-initializing after checking the version.

you do NOT need to re-initialize......you can if you want, but you do not need to.

re-initializing will delete your settings to default

Looking at my -6 update archive, step 4 clearly states to initialize the player, it's right after step 3 which is verify your software. It's on page 4 of the PDF file.

I have written firmware in the past, and register values can change. If you don't re-initialize you risk using old register values with newer software. They may not change from version to version but often they do. I would strongly recommend following the directions fully, including the re-initialization step.

Originally posted by uzun
Looking at my -6 update archive, step 4 clearly states to initialize the player, it's right after step 3 which is verify your software. It's on page 4 of the PDF file.

I have written firmware in the past, and register values can change. If you don't re-initialize you risk using old register values with newer software. They may not change from version to version but often they do. I would strongly recommend following the directions fully, including the re-initialization step.

Very strange, because I have the actual CD and instructions that Denon sent me in the mail, and it does not say anything about re-initializing after verifying the firmware version.

Get ready for another firmware upgrade. Denon Link 3 for SACD has been given the green light and the upgrade should be out in 2 weeks.

Originally posted by uddinz
Will upgrading a firmware effect the default picture settings in the 3910? I just got my display calibrated and would hate to lose the settings.

yes save your settings on your 3910 before reinitializing. Your display will retain its calibrated settings settings regardless of what the 3910 update does ...

I would presume your calibration only involved adjusting your display not your player??

How do you "re-initialize" ????

Originally posted by Cain
How do you "re-initialize" ????

It's in the instructions included with the updates.

I tried to upgrade my 3910 to the newly release firmware, 6609-B, I just downloaded from the Denon site. It tells you to make three discs, each with one file on it: SUP3910.rom on the first disc, d31zsavd.cfw on the second, and d391il.rom on the third.

I can load the first and seconds discs fine, but when I load the third the unit doesn't appear to want to read it. It spins the disc up and down, to a high rate of speed, and even opens the drawer and ejects the disc while it's still spinning!

The instructions with the firmware warn that the three files are not downward compatible and that you have to upgrade them all at the same time. Of course, my previous upgrade (to 6609-6) was only one file so I can't even try to go back to it.

The unit seems to work, but it might be a little flaky now: I loaded a disc and it wouldn't successfully load although a retry got it.

I burned all the discs "disc at once" and ISO 9660 only, and at the lowest speed. Anyone have any ideas?

With regards the upgrades, has every firmware ALL the improvements of the previous ones?, I mean, if now I have installed version 6 and I go for version 9b straight, do I miss the improvements of versions 7, 8 and 9a?
Thank you.

Originally posted by rmongiovi
I tried to upgrade my 3910 to the newly release firmware, 6609-B, I just downloaded from the Denon site. It tells you to make three discs, each with one file on it: SUP3910.rom on the first disc, d31zsavd.cfw on the second, and d391il.rom on the third.

I can load the first and seconds discs fine, but when I load the third the unit doesn't appear to want to read it. It spins the disc up and down, to a high rate of speed, and even opens the drawer and ejects the disc while it's still spinning!

The instructions with the firmware warn that the three files are not downward compatible and that you have to upgrade them all at the same time. Of course, my previous upgrade (to 6609-6) was only one file so I can't even try to go back to it.

The unit seems to work, but it might be a little flaky now: I loaded a disc and it wouldn't successfully load although a retry got it.

I burned all the discs "disc at once" and ISO 9660 only, and at the lowest speed. Anyone have any ideas?


Greetings,

I upgraded my 3910 with the - B firmwre without a problem. Actually the only glitch I had was that it did not eject the 3rd disc once installation was complete. There were instructions on what to do if that happend. I followed them and it was fine.

I would suggest that you make sure that your burning software is set up precisely as per the instructions ( ISO9660, no joliet, mode 1 etc. ) and reburn the discs. Try installing the firmware again, and ensure that you take your time and follow the instructions step by step.

Good luck !

Regards,

Originally posted by pitxi
With regards the upgrades, has every firmware ALL the improvements of the previous ones?, I mean, if now I have installed version 6 and I go for version 9b straight, do I miss the improvements of versions 7, 8 and 9a?
Thank you.

Yes, typically firmware upgrades are inclusive so you don't need to do a stepped upgrade to receive all the fixes of previous releases.

Originally posted by mattbugz
Yes, typically firmware upgrades are inclusive so you don't need to do a stepped upgrade to receive all the fixes of previous releases.

Thanks mattbugz.

so what are the reports on the effects of the new firmware??

rmongiovi

Try burning that 3rd disk again. Bad disks are prevalent and the 3910 may be a bit picky about playing disks of questionable quality.

good luck

m

I have noticed a strange behavior when playing CDs on my 3910. After I turn on the player and start playing certain CDs the output level is very high for a fraction of a second but clearly noticeable. After that the player plays at normal level. This only happens with some CDs and only when using the digital connection (Denon Link) to my AVR-3805 and only with the first CD after turning on the player (still pretty annoying). Is this a known problem and is there any way to fix this?

Thanks.

I've been absent from the thread for more than a few days and I was wondering what 9A addressed. I read about the DL3 news at Audioholics and checked Denon's site hoping for a morsel but instead saw the B upgrade. I know that most or all of the upgrades contain the information provided in previous upgrades, but I missed what 9A addresses.

BTW, can't wait for DL3! :D

Jason

Hi all...
Newbie to this thread.

So now that the DL3 is becoming a reality :), I am once again interested in this unit. It is one of the reasons I purchased my 3805.

One (probably stupid) question for now.

Will using the D-Link mean that I won't need to use optical or coax bitstream for DTS or DD digital signals to my 3805? In other words, my connections will simply be component and DL3 (for ALL audio?) to the 3805, and maybe HDMI to the Monitor?

TIA!

shane

That is correct Shane. All audio sources will work with just the D-Link when the upgrade is made.

Originally posted by kevinca1
That is correct Shane. All audio sources will work with just the D-Link when the upgrade is made.

Whoohoo! That should simplify things nicely. Thanks much!

Question #2.
Dakmart?
Best price on the net... Apparently authorized, B-stock, refurbished. What is the concensus (if any)?

If not them, any other reputable dealers on the net?
I can get one locally... but I'd rather not pay MSRP, as I'm hoping to save the large coin for the upcoming HD player(?). ;)

Again... TIA.

shane

Well, I figured out my mistake with the 6609-B upgrade.

Silly me, I'd burned the firmware files to DVD. The doc specifically says "CD". :rolleyes:

Is the 3910 still in production? Can a player with DL3, BTB fixes and the latest firmware be had soon (when DL3 firmware is released) or are they all warehoused and those fixes left up to the end user?

Has anyone had success on a JVC Dila with the 3910 or is this a bad combination?? I'm waiting on the 52G786.

Thanks for any info!

Originally posted by RowdyUSP40
Is the 3910 still in production? Can a player with DL3, BTB fixes and the latest firmware be had soon (when DL3 firmware is released) or are they all warehoused and those fixes left up to the end user?

Has anyone had success on a JVC Dila with the 3910 or is this a bad combination?? I'm waiting on the 52G786.

Thanks for any info!

Taking a SWAG here. It is probably dealer dependent. I bought my 3910 in March of 05 and it had an Aug. 04 build date. My dealer went in the back room and pulled it off the shelf. My guess is he doesn't sell many 3910s. A high volume dealer that is constantly replacing stock, or one that doesn't carry any and has to order each one will probably have much newer build dates.

The guess here is, did Denon stop or slow down production to sell off current stock so DL3 could hit the street in June? I think it would be in their best interest to do so but I doubt it.

Originally posted by shane55
Whoohoo! That should simplify things nicely. Thanks much!

Question #2.
Dakmart?
Best price on the net... Apparently authorized, B-stock, refurbished. What is the concensus (if any)?

If not them, any other reputable dealers on the net?
I can get one locally... but I'd rather not pay MSRP, as I'm hoping to save the large coin for the upcoming HD player(?). ;)

Again... TIA.

shane

I considered them as they are approved, but I could not bring myself to pay so close to list for a refurbished unit. If you want to buy authorized, check out the other authorized B-stock etailers - found on Denon's site - because when they have them, they are a LOT less than from Dakmart.

Originally posted by pepar
I considered them as they are approved, but I could not bring myself to pay so close to list for a refurbished unit. If you want to buy authorized, check out the other authorized B-stock etailers - found on Denon's site - because when they have them, they are a LOT less than from Dakmart.

Well... thanks for the tip.
Yes, a couple places (MacMall, Club Mac, etc.) have them for slightly less.

A place called 'On Sale' has it for the lowest amount.

Has anyone had any experience with them?

TIA

shane

Is there no way that Denon will include interlaced via HDMI with a firmware upgrade? With 1080p displays(especially if they´re using HQV processing) that would probably be the best way to go.

Not likely. The machine was never designed for 480i HDMI. The 720p via HDMI would likely be the prefered way for virtually any 1080P display since the faroudja is a VERY good deinterlacer, no MBE, and 720p->1080p shouldn't be that hard for the display to scale.

I have my 3910 connected to my receiver using the 1394 connection. I enabled 1394 and am getting the sound but I don't seem to be getting any video over the HDMI connection to my TV. I noticed that when I played an SACD the video signal was present via the blue screen coming from the 3910 (ironic since there is nothing to display with SACD :) )

Does the 3910 pass the video portion of the DVD-Audio over HDMI? If so, what setting(s) do I need to enable to get this working?

If not, I presume then that it will pass the video over component or composite?

Thanks in advance...

Originally posted by jazzcat
Thanks for the info guys.

I am looking at the Outlaw 990 and the Anthem AVM30 but neither have iLink or HDMI. Don't want to spend + $4000 on a Lexicon and want balanced outputs to boot.

Not too picky, eh? :rolleyes:

Jazzcat,

How is your search coming? The AVM-30 should have HDMI in the near future. Are balanced outputs a deal breaker for you? If not have you considered the up-coming Denon 4806?

I'm about 90% sold on the AVM-30 to go with my 3910. Just need to decide on which amp to go with it. My other 10% is on the Rotel 1098. I'll give the Denon 4806 a listen if it's out before the end of June but I pretty sure separates is the way for me to go.

Outlaw audio was showing a killer new pre-pro selling for $1099 at the Stereophile Home Entertainment Show her in NYC a few weeks ago. I believe it has DVI or HDMI switching and possibly balance outs, but I don't remember. I'd look into it if I was in the market for a new pre-pro.

Originally posted by JohnGZ28
Jazzcat,

How is your search coming? The AVM-30 should have HDMI in the near future. Are balanced outputs a deal breaker for you? If not have you considered the up-coming Denon 4806?

I'm about 90% sold on the AVM-30 to go with my 3910. Just need to decide on which amp to go with it. My other 10% is on the Rotel 1098. I'll give the Denon 4806 a listen if it's out before the end of June but I pretty sure separates is the way for me to go.

Hey John, I have the Outlaw 990. I am waiting out the AVM 30 partially because i am still a little miffed they did not include iLink. I want to see how all this plays out with all the flux with new formats, etc. I don't want to plop down $3K then send it back for an $800 upgrade then find that it will require another down the road.

I have Carver digital amps that have balanced inputs. My fronts are coming today from Ed Frias Enterprises so I should be able to see what this $1,099 Outlaw can do by the weekend. It is supposed to upsample to 192/24 like the D1. It will be interesting to see (or hear) how it does.

Denon is supposedly coming out with 2 separates this fall. That may be interesting as well.

Originally posted by jazzcat
Hey John, I have the Outlaw 990. I am waiting out the AVM 30 partially because i am still a little miffed they did not include iLink. I want to see how all this plays out with all the flux with new formats, etc. I don't want to plop down $3K then send it back for an $800 upgrade then find that it will require another down the road.

I have Carver digital amps that have balanced inputs. My fronts are coming today from Ed Frias Enterprises so I should be able to see what this $1,099 Outlaw can do by the weekend. It is supposed to upsample to 192/24 like the D1. It will be interesting to see (or hear) how it does.

Denon is supposedly coming out with 2 separates this fall. That may be interesting as well.

Keep us posted on the Outlaw 990 and how it matches up with the 3910 (trying to keep this on topic and not turn it into a pre/pro thread). :D

Originally posted by JohnGZ28
Keep us posted on the Outlaw 990 and how it matches up with the 3910 (trying to keep this on topic and not turn it into a pre/pro thread). :D

I'll PM you with my findings. That way we can stay on topic here and because I don't want to get flamed by posting an Outlaw review in these forums, especially if for some reason I actually find it listenable :cool: :D

Hey guys, I'd appreciate a quick word or two on how the new Outlaw pre-pro sounds since it's being matched up with the 3910 it's pertinent to me as a 3910 owner considering a new pre-pro.

Hey all,

been looking in the whole thread for subtitles positioning but I did find nothing. Please, could anybody tell me where does denon show the subtitles both in widescreen mode or letterbox one, when the aspect ratio of a film is 2.35?

I mean, do the subtitles appear in the film zone or in the low stripe one?

cheers

Juan

Did anyone get the email from Denon about mailing firmware CD's and that they have been delayed?

Gus

Gus -

No - perhaps that explains why it's taking so long to receive? What did you hear from Denon?

Andre'

Originally posted by gsiokis
Did anyone get the email from Denon about mailing firmware CD's and that they have been delayed?

Gus

I requested a CD for 9A and 9B. Didn't receive either. I downloaded them and burned my own after waiting 2 weeks for 9A and a couple of days for 9B.

Originally posted by JohnGZ28
I requested a CD for 9A and 9B. Didn't receive either. I downloaded them and burned my own after waiting 2 weeks for 9A and a couple of days for 9B.
That's a waste of your discs. You do know that you don't have to go through every update (you can skip updates and just install the latest one available)?

I imagine with the DL3 update looming close Denon wants to send out those rather than the previous couple of updates.

I imagine with the DL3 update looming close Denon wants to send out those rather than the previous couple of updates.

Originally posted by uzun
I imagine with the DL3 update looming close Denon wants to send out those rather than the previous couple of updates.
What's the DL3 update?

Hey guys... take a look at my new Denon 3910.

Modwright Denon 3910 (http://www.kgjack.com/p1010811_edited.jpg)

What do you see that's different? :D

Originally posted by BillP
That's a waste of your discs. You do know that you don't have to go through every update (you can skip updates and just install the latest one available)?

Not a waste of discs at all. When I burned 9A there was no t-date for 9B at all. At less than $.05 per disc it boggles my mind how many folks consider it a "waste" or skip updates because the don't want to use up a disc. After spending over $1000 for a DVD player when you can get one at Wally World for less than $50, burning a couple of CDs every other month isn't given a second thought.

9C with DL3 should be out in early June. I think I'll drive by Starbucks and drink the office swill for a couple of days to cover the cost of burning yet another 2-3 CDs. :D

Originally posted by merc
Hey guys... take a look at my new Denon 3910.

Modwright Denon 3910 (http://www.kgjack.com/p1010811_edited.jpg)

What do you see that's different? :D

Its got two circles on the top. That must mean it passes BTB.

Its got two circles on the top. that must means it passes BTB.:D

DL3 is the pending DenonLink 3 update for SACD transmission over Denonlink.

DL3 is the pending DenonLink 3 update for SACD transmission over Denonlink.Where are you gonna send that transmission which has better DACs and a better analog audio trace than just letting the 3910 do its' thing?

Then again... I guess you could send the signal to an Onkyo SP1000?











Just Kidding already! :D

Originally posted by merc
Where are you gonna send that transmission which has better DACs and a better analog audio trace than just letting the 3910 do its' thing?

Then again... I guess you could send the signal to an Onkyo SP1000?
Just Kidding already! :D

That's a very good question Merc.

I assume the D* 5805 has better DACs. The soon to be released 4806 might. Jazzcat mentioned that Denon may be coming out with some separates this fall. I would hope they would release a pre/pro with better processing. Don't know about the 3805.

The only benefit I can see to DL3 right now is fewer cables to run, but if you own the 3910 you probably already invested in some quality cables so you might as well keep using them.

Just my .02 but I could be wrong.

I assume the D* 5805 has better DACs. The soon to be released 4806 might. Jazzcat mentioned that Denon may be coming out with some separates this fall. I would hope they would release a pre/pro with better processing. Don't know about the 3805.Hmmm, the way I look at it... the next time I upgrade my player, and/or pre/pro, it will be with something having to do with HD-DVD/Blu-Ray or something like that.... and whatever format eventually wins, it will be around for at least a few years before I buy into it. Hollywood already fooled/Effed me once with the HD anti-component video debacle... and I won't be fooled again. ;)

Going DL3 to a 3805 provides you with room correction you can't get from the 3910 directly. Whether or not this offsets the 3910's superior DACs/audio path is left to the listener.

Going DL3 to a 3805 provides you with room correction you can't get from the 3910 directly.Room correction for the entire audible spectrum, or only for the subwoofer?
IMO, going from D to A to D to A in order to get bass EQ is not the best choice for anyone???, IMO.
YMMV.

Total Room EQ, via a good program is absolutely a good idea even if you have to do the mulitple converts, if that is what you are talking about?

Most folks don't simply have the money, effort, or WAF to put up acoustic stuff in their rooms.

The 3805 provides room correction for the entire spectrum, across all speakers for both frequency and distance.

I don't follow your logic on D-A to D-A, there is no reasonable signal path with or without denonlinnk I can think of that does that (unless you set one up intentionally to do that, like use the analog 2ch outs on the 3910 to 2ch analog ins on the 3805 or something odd like that). The ext in multichannel analog inputs to the 3805 do not convert the analog 5.1 inputs to digital at any time. If you use analog 5.1 outs on the 3910 the 3805 never really touches the analog signal, it never re-digitizes it in any way (hence no room correction when using the 3910 as a multichannel analog source).

If you live without room correction and play the source from the 3910's analog outs you have one D-A.

If you play a DVD-Audio or CD using Denolink you have a single D-A internal to the 3805.

If you listen to SACD's on either the 3805 or 3910, and use no correction (source direct/direct mode) you still have a SINGLE D-A conversion with or without DenonLink 3.

If you listen to SACD's and WANT room correction, you get a DSD-PCM digital to digital conversion, then a D-A.

In any case it's just a single D-A conversion, so what do you mean D-A to D-A? What path follows that?

Originally posted by BillP
That's a waste of your discs. You do know that you don't have to go through every update (you can skip updates and just install the latest one available)?

And you also know that you can use CD-RW discs as CD-Rs and just do it all with one disc if you want to. To reuse you just erase it and burn the next disc.

If you listen to SACD's and WANT room correction, you get a DSD-PCM digital to digital conversion, then a D-A.Well, I room correct for all my MC and stereo playback and never go digital outside my 3910, or convert DSD to PCM ever. It just takes a bit more work and a room willing to allow for equidistant speakers(except my sub).

I use Spectra Plus for full range EQ, a Symetrix 551E analog EQ for taming subwoofer peaks, a full wall sized set of wood louvers(diffusers) behind us, and a few well placed wall hangings for first point and RPTV screen reflections.

Being that I alter the musicality and tonality of my source to match the media being played back that way... I can mix and match, tonally neutral, preamps and amps all I want forever without worring about changing the sound I like best.

Then again, maybe changing/upgrading your preamp/processor to the next best thing every year is a better option for most?

One thing is for sure... if you aren't gonna use the digital or analog audio section of your Universal player, you can probably make do with something alot less expensive than the 3910... like the Oppo for example? Or, maybe not?

I was referring to room correction using the 3805/3910 combo. I didn't (and still don't) understand your statement regarding multiple D-A conversions when using the 3805/3910 combo.

The point originally arose when I mentioned owners of the 3910/3805 may want to use DL3 to take advantage of the room correction features on the 3805, despite its use of 1791 rather than 1796 DACs. Using DL3 and the 3805 adds no additional D/A conversion, but does give one room correction for both frequency and distance in the digital domain. The drawback is that you use the inferior DACs present in the 3805 rather than the better ones in the 3910, but the room correction applied in the 3805 may provide superior sound overall, depending on ones room acoustics/speakers etc.

The drawback is that you use the inferior DACs present in the 3805 rather than the better ones in the 3910, but the room correction applied in the 3805 may provide superior sound overall, depending on ones room acoustics/speakers etc.True... but then why buy the 3910 to use with the 3805? Since the only part of the DVD player being used is the small part which reads and transmits the disc info, you can probably get away with a much less capable and costly Universal Player?

As for D/A conversions, I was referring to audio/video transmissions via combined digital transmissions(HDMI) to an analog display like mine.... so nevermind. ;)

The 3805 is a very competitive A/V receiver at its price point, and the 3910 is a compelling universal player as well for a variety of reasons. I own both, I imagine quite a few people do.

Now that DL3 will be enabled on the 3910 it means another option to consider. Less expensive universal players have their own problems, and of course none of those feature Denonlink so that's not even an issue with them.

Let's say you buy an inexpensive universal to use with your 3805, you will be using the inexpensive player DAC's along with your 3805's 5.1 inputs. In this case you get only that room correction present on the cheap player, and only that cheap players DAC's. That's hardly a viable option, even for 3805 owners.

If you use TOSLink or Coax from your cheap player to your 3805 (letting the 3805 do the room correction thing etc) you give up high resolution music, so there's no point in the player supporting DVD-A or SACD.

I think the 3805/3910 combo makes a lot of sense, although it does mean you have a choice you have to make once DL3 goes live.

Okay, the 3805/3910 combo makes alot of sense and the new denonlink upgrade makes it moreso a good value.

I guess I was thinking in terms of buying the 3910(or any other DVD player) after you already had a nice pre/pro and amp(s)?

Nevermind... :D

[QUOTE=merc]Where are you gonna send that transmission which has better DACs and a better analog audio trace than just letting the 3910 do its' thing?


I was under the impression that using DL3 with the 3910 one would be able to use the 3805's processing ability (i.e. use prologic 2x or other soundfields) to apply to stereo only SACD's. I realize that that goes a bit against the audiophile grain but I could see that there would be times when one might want to do this. Any thoughts?

I've been reading this thread with great interest, and the 3910 seems to have all the features that I'm looking for in a universal player. However, with HD-DVD looming somewhere on the horizon, I'd rather not buy a new one. I've checked with Denon's authorized refurb sellers that they list on their website and they're all out of stock, except for one dealer whose price is considerably higher than all of the others. Where are you folks finding deals on used/demos/refurbs?

Where are you folks finding deals on used/demos/refurbs?

Check local dealers in your area for any that have been returned. That's how I purchased mine. Stay only with Authorized dealers/resellers or else you won't have a warranty through Denon.

PS. Great new site look by the way. AVS finally decided to upgrade their forum software. :)

I've been reading this thread with great interest, and the 3910 seems to have all the features that I'm looking for in a universal player. However, with HD-DVD looming somewhere on the horizon, I'd rather not buy a new one. I've checked with Denon's authorized refurb sellers that they list on their website and they're all out of stock, except for one dealer whose price is considerably higher than all of the others. Where are you folks finding deals on used/demos/refurbs?

Check Ubid. They have a refurb 3910 there now.

Thanks for the tip, but I live in A/V no-man's land. There isn't a Denon dealer within 150 - 200 miles of me.

When one enables D.Link or IEEE1394, the optical out no longer functions; i.e., you must use that connection for all of your audio output, even dvd-video? that seems to be the case on my unit and am wondering whether an interim firmware upgrade changed that.

thanks...

Why would you want to connect optical or digital coaxial if you were wired for ieee 1394?

Why would you want to connect optical or digital coaxial if you were wired for ieee 1394?


My receiver requires an extra step in switching to the 1394 connector and does not come out of that mode as easily as i would like so when trying to make this setup family-friendly, i was hoping that the denon would simultaneously output from the optical as well as the 1394 ports. if my cable company's dvr had audio via 1394 i would be set :)

What receiver do you have?

Yamaha RX-Z9

BenDover,
You still did not answer Tom's question. :) Firewire can handle all the audio output from any thing you put in the player (don't know about MP3's). Having optical and firewire only makes sense if you are trying to have the player connected to two "processors" at once (and using one or the other).

larry

Maybe Ben wants to use a nice DAC for Redbook and his processor for everything else?
Does the Firewire on the Denon work with the firewire on my DVHS? Does the Denon firewire pass video too, or just audio? If only audio, seems like he probably has no need for firewire anyway? Then he can use both coax and optical digital to connect to two seperate units?

I've been trying to think of why I need to do this and how best to explain it in a sensible manner.

Since I am having problems with my universal remote controlling my receiver when it goes in/out of i.Link mode, I was hoping to simply leave the 1394 output on the 3910 enabled so that it would be simple for me to switch to that connection when listening to sacd/dvd-a. since it doesn't pass audio from all the digital outs when the 1394 output is enabled, I will have to toggle the 3910 as well as my receiver to listen to sacd/dvd-a digitally.

it is really just a set up issue for me as nothing else i have passes audio via i.Link, my receiver would have to be toggled out of i.Link in order to receive, e.g., my digital cable box's audio output when watching tv. so, it will just be easier for me to use the 3910 by default with its optical/coax outputs as opposed to the 1394 to make my life easier when the wife and kids want to use the system, whether it be for watching tv or watching dvd's.

i'm sure that is not clear to everyone, and i apologize, but i'm not indicating any deficiency in the 3910, simply i wish it would pass digital audio from all of its outputs simultaneously so that i can leave its 1394 port enabled.

what i really have to do is figure out the universal remote end of it so that i can do exactly what i want.

thanks for the help.

I was referring to room correction using the 3805/3910 combo. I didn't (and still don't) understand your statement regarding multiple D-A conversions when using the 3805/3910 combo.

The point originally arose when I mentioned owners of the 3910/3805 may want to use DL3 to take advantage of the room correction features on the 3805, despite its use of 1791 rather than 1796 DACs. Using DL3 and the 3805 adds no additional D/A conversion, but does give one room correction for both frequency and distance in the digital domain. The drawback is that you use the inferior DACs present in the 3805 rather than the better ones in the 3910, but the room correction applied in the 3805 may provide superior sound overall, depending on ones room acoustics/speakers etc.

I am looking forward to this new flexibility. It should be a matter of just using your 3805 remote to go back and forth between Ext-In and DL3, to see which sounds better. If my experience with using the existing Denon Link when playing DVD-A's is any indication, I am betting that DL3 will provide the superior sound for me.

BenDover-- Maybe I don't understand your issue. I have an RX-Z9 that takes 1394 from the 3910 and optical from an SA HD cable box and a Replay. The Z9 doesn't have any issue switching from one input to another when I change devices. Perhaps you have each audio input on the Z9 configured for 1394? Each can be assigned a separate input. When you switch the device, the audio input switches as well.

It should be a matter of just using your 3805 remote to go back and forth between Ext-In and DL3, to see which sounds better.

The only gottcha is that if you have DL enabled, then the 3910's analog outputs only output 2 ch (FL, FR), not 5.1, and the volume level seems to be down, from my experience.

I have had to stop the disk, go into setup, turn off DL, and then go back out to listen from the analogs. This makes a back to back comparison between DL and analog a bit harder.

DigiPete

BenDover-- Maybe I don't understand your issue. I have an RX-Z9 that takes 1394 from the 3910 and optical from an SA HD cable box and a Replay. The Z9 doesn't have any issue switching from one input to another when I change devices. Perhaps you have each audio input on the Z9 configured for 1394? Each can be assigned a separate input. When you switch the device, the audio input switches as well.

Thanks, I'm sure you are right; as I said, I think what my problem is is just a setup issue.

I only recently started playing around with setup on the RX-Z9, hell my whole system...not enough time on weekends.

Has anyone noted any differences between the audio output of the 3910 over 1394 vs. optical/coaxial?

The only gottcha is that if you have DL enabled, then the 3910's analog outputs only output 2 ch (FL, FR), not 5.1Man, that sucks!
What's the reason again why the proprietary DL is so great? Is it just the cable thing?

Man, that sucks!
What's the reason again why the proprietary DL is so great? Is it just the cable thing?

I'll second that question: WTH is so great about DL if you've got Firewire/IEEE1394?

pepar,

So true... can I offload a Sony HDTV recording using firewire to my DVHS? If so... I am there NOW! :D

The only gottcha is that if you have DL enabled, then the 3910's analog outputs only output 2 ch (FL, FR), not 5.1, and the volume level seems to be down, from my experience.

I have had to stop the disk, go into setup, turn off DL, and then go back out to listen from the analogs. This makes a back to back comparison between DL and analog a bit harder.

DigiPete

It sounds like you don't have things set up right. My understanding is the 3910 is identical to the 5900 as far as output setup and I can switch between DL and analog 2.0 and 5.1 at will by selecting a different input on the 3805.

Have you set up up your unit according to this guide,

http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/pdfs/5900_3805%20setup%20tips.pdf
5900_3805 setup tips.pdf (application/pdf Object)

I'll second that question: WTH is so great about DL if you've got Firewire/IEEE1394?

Nothing, only that Denon claims it's a superior connection. Personally, I think 1394 will work just as well.

So... should I keep my DVHS unit since it will offload record from the Sony?

Thanks.

Nothing, only that Denon claims it's a superior connection. Personally, I think 1394 will work just as well.

I don't see how it can be superior; none of them are lossy. And it seems to be "behind" IEEE1394 in terms of passing formats. Nevermind that it's proprietary.

So... should I keep my DVHS unit since it will offload record from the Sony?

Thanks.

You talkin' to me? :)

The Denon 3910 will pass SACD via 5.1 channel analog while Denonlink is active, but nothing else. I imagine once DL3 is active everything will be downconverted to stereo 16 bit out of the 5.1's

The Denon 3910 will pass SACD via 5.1 channel analog while Denonlink is active, but nothing else. I imagine once DL3 is active everything will be downconverted to stereo 16 bit out of the 5.1's

Well, I'd think it should pass analog regardless of the digital connection being used.

Do you consider downconverting everything just for the convenience of one wire an "upgrade?"

It sounds like you don't have things set up right. My understanding is the 3910 is identical to the 5900 as far as output setup and I can switch between DL and analog 2.0 and 5.1 at will by selecting a different input on the 3805.

Have you set up up your unit according to this guide,

http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/pdfs/5900_3805%20setup%20tips.pdf
5900_3805 setup tips.pdf (application/pdf Object)

Thanks Keenan,

I am familiar with this instruction and my system is set up properly.

From the 3910 owners manual page 17:

"When Denon Link(2nd Edition) is set, the down-mixed audio signals are output only from the L and R terminals and FL and FR terminals." (the exception is with SACD which will not go down DL at present, in that case the DL is automatically turned off by the 3910, the 3805 sees this, and then looks at the ext inputs which now the 3910 operates in true 5.1 mode.)

So, for DVD-A or other 5.1 sources (except SACD) if you want to comare the 5.1 sound from the 3910 to the 3805 using DL or the analog outputs, you must toggle DL on and off, otherwise you will get downmixed audio from the 3910's FL, FR, L, R analog outputs, when DL is switched on.

So, for DVD-A or other 5.1 sources (except SACD) if you want to comare the 5.1 sound from the 3910 to the 3805 using DL or the analog outputs, you must toggle DL on and off, otherwise you will get downmixed audio from the 3910's FL, FR, L, R analog outputs, when DL is switched on. Well, why not just use the 3910 for the wonderful audio reasons you bought it and use the unit for all MC and stereo music formats? You can still use it just like the Oppo for movie soundtracks though by connecting the sure coax/optical digital cable?

What is the audiophile reason for using the single cable approach? Is there a wonderful Meridian or Krell, Firewire/Digiling preamp that everyone has here which provides better D/A and analog pathways than the Denon 3910?

Just wondering since maybe I need a preamp upgrade??? :)

Merc,
Check your PM from Sunday. Thx,
Ted

P.S. Doesn't seem like many firewire and/or DL users have compared the sound vs analog bypass, but those who have, what order would you put audio quality in....Dlink/I-Link over bypass, or vice versa?

Well, why not just use the 3910 for the wonderful audio reasons you bought it and use the unit for all MC and stereo music formats? You can still use it just like the Oppo for movie soundtracks though by connecting the sure coax/optical digital cable?

What is the audiophile reason for using the single cable approach? Is there a wonderful Meridian or Krell, Firewire/Digiling preamp that everyone has here which provides better D/A and analog pathways than the Denon 3910?

Just wondering since maybe I need a preamp upgrade??? :)

Merc,

Maybe you have confused me with someone else who posted earlier, since I don't have an Oppo. I was just responding to the post where someone wanted to compare back and forth between DL and analog. So I just pointed out that the mechanics of that are a little more complex than one push of a button on the remote.

With DL you can avoid the losses from the analog cables, use the 3805's room correcting parametric equalization for all six channels (all done in the digital domain), or not, if you don't want to. As for the better DACs of the 3910 vs the 3805, if you can hear a difference fine, but maybe you could hear an improvement in your setup using the room correction, it all depends.

Its just another option for users of DL equipped receivers and players.

Cheers
DigiPete

From the reviews I've read, using the 1394 digital connection (I don't recall anyone using the Denon Link) provides much superior sound quality over the analog multi-channel outputs from the 3910.

If I can round up some 5.1 interconnects I might try to compare for myself but I can't imagine it sounding any better than it already does. The 1394 connection, also, gives me the ability to use my receiver's EQ facilities although maybe it can also process the 5.1 analog inputs as well...I'm not sure.

I guess it should be interesting to hear comparisons between the two with sacd's when that is possible. I have a 3805 with no 1394, so I'm naturally hoping they sound the same. That way, when I upgrade my receiver at some point I will have no worries.

I guess it should be interesting to hear comparisons between the two with sacd's when that is possible. I have a 3805 with no 1394, so I'm naturally hoping they sound the same. That way, when I upgrade my receiver at some point I will have no worries.

I don't see how 1394 would sound different than Denon Link as they both just pass the digital stream to the receiver(barring any goof ups).

From the reviews I've read, using the 1394 digital connection (I don't recall anyone using the Denon Link) provides much superior sound quality over the analog multi-channel outputs from the 3910.Unless you are feeding that firewire to an Anthem D1, I'd probably put my money on the 3910.

Unless you are feeding that firewire to an Anthem D1, I'd probably put my money on the 3910.

I'm not sure I understand. The comparisons I read about were 1394 vs. analog 5.1 using the 3910 in both instances.

I'm not sure I understand. The comparisons I read about were 1394 vs. analog 5.1 using the 3910 in both instances.

It depends on the quality of the piece of equipment that is doing the digital to analog conversion.

For example, I much prefer the sound of my 5900 using analog outs for music as opposed to sending the signal in a digital form to my 3805 and having the 3805 to the conversion.

My suggestion would be to try it both ways. The fact that a certain transportation method is used does not mean it will sound better by using it. It depends on the equipment being connected.

It depends on the quality of the piece of equipment that is doing the digital to analog conversion.

For example, I much prefer the sound of my 5900 using analog outs for music as opposed to sending the signal in a digital form to my 3805 and having the 3805 to the conversion.

My suggestion would be to try it both ways. The fact that a certain transportation method is used does not mean it will sound better by using it. It depends on the equipment being connected.

Of course. That is why I specifically said in my post "given the same receiver or pre/pro".

Ted

I'm not sure I understand. The comparisons I read about were 1394 vs. analog 5.1 using the 3910 in both instances.

I think Merc meant he'd put money on the 3910's dacs (i.e analog bypass). Of course, that Anthem D1 statement requires that Anthem finally decide on providing the I-link upgrade, which they are still debating. Can't believe they promised a June I-link but haven't internally made the decision? Suppoedly they are wondering how many folks will take advatange of it over an HDMI solution (which leaves out SACD).

Ted

For example, I much prefer the sound of my 5900 using analog outs for music as opposed to sending the signal in a digital form to my 3805 and having the 3805 to the conversion.

I've posted this before, but for me it's the complete opposite, which I realize is mostly a function of my oddball family room where my equipment resides. The speaker and room eq of the 3805 does wonders for my sound, and right now I cannot apply it to SACD's.

I've posted this before, but for me it's the complete opposite, which I realize is mostly a function of my oddball family room where my equipment resides. The speaker and room eq of the 3805 does wonders for my sound, and right now I cannot apply it to SACD's.

Exactly. This illustrates the idea that regardless of what someone tells you about which way should sound better, always try all the ways available and pick the one that sounds best to you.

It's what I do... :)

Using the onboard processing and analog trace of the 3910 for your music needs will also dictate that your pre-pro or receiver has a wonderfully transparent analog bypass too. I'd guess that the 5805 has a pretty good preamp section?

I've posted this before, but for me it's the complete opposite, which I realize is mostly a function of my oddball family room where my equipment resides. The speaker and room eq of the 3805 does wonders for my sound, and right now I cannot apply it to SACD's.
This is why I'm looking forward to DL3. I couldn't care less about fewer cables behind my gear...it's already a nightmare and a handful fewer won't make any difference. Being able to take advantage of the 3805's auto-eq et al is where the appeal is. Like JBaumgart, I've got a sonically challenged room and the 3805 is really able to tame it quite well.

Is DL3 still slated for next month? Can't wait...

Jason

Using the onboard processing and analog trace of the 3910 for your music needs will also dictate that your pre-pro or receiver has a wonderfully transparent analog bypass too.

That's exactly why analog bypasses exist - to bypass unnecessary electronics and get as close as possible to the proverbial "straight wire with gain."

For Those of you who sent your Player back for the BTB repair:

1. how long did it take to get it back?

2. What did you do in the meantime?

3. What kinda shipping did you send it with?

I asked the question earlier in the thread (somewhere in the last 183 pages!)...is there an alternative to the supplied DenonLink cable that came with the 3910? Manufacturer supplied cables are usually pretty ******, so I was just wondering what other options, if any, were out there.

Jason

I asked the question earlier in the thread (somewhere in the last 183 pages!)...is there an alternative to the supplied DenonLink cable that came with the 3910? Manufacturer supplied cables are usually pretty ******, so I was just wondering what other options, if any, were out there.

Jason

Although I haven't actually looked at the cable since I opened my player 6+ months ago, it seemed to be a standard RJ45 type connector/cable. A computer store might offer a version with better shielding.

Yes, it's definitely just an RJ45 standard Ethernet cable....probably Cat 3. Makes me wonder if Denon link is merely a Gigabit (1000mbps) Ethernet link.

Although I haven't actually looked at the cable since I opened my player 6+ months ago, it seemed to be a standard RJ45 type connector/cable. A computer store might offer a version with better shielding.

I'm not a DL user, but RJ45s are usually on Ethernet cables which are unshielded twisted pair (UTP) cables. Generally, there is no shielding; the twisted pairs eliminate pickup of EMI. The best Ethernet cable I know of is CAT6, and yes, a Radio Shack or Office Max would carry it.

Although I haven't actually looked at the cable since I opened my player 6+ months ago, it seemed to be a standard RJ45 type connector/cable. A computer store might offer a version with better shielding.

You would think one of the high-end cable manufacturers would offer an upgraded version. Not sure it would sound any better, but I bet there would be some money in it.

I did spend some money on an aftermarket power cable for the 3910. Since I installed some other new cables at the same time, including new speaker cables, I can't give any honest feedback as to how much improvement, if any, it made. Normally I would test one at a time, but it's a big pain to get behind my system, and I chose to do it only once. For the 3910, I went with one of these:

http://signalcable.com/digitalpowerHC.html

Yes, it's definitely just an RJ45 standard Ethernet cable....probably Cat 3. Makes me wonder if Denon link is merely a Gigabit (1000mbps) Ethernet link.

Not with CAT3; that's standard telephone cable. 10Mbps to 100Mbps - maybe - is all that's capable of.

Not with CAT3; that's standard telephone cable. 10Mbps to 100Mbps - maybe - is all that's capable of.

Cat 3 isn't telephone cable, but it's not Fast Ethernet either. Cat 3 was for original Ethernet and Cat 3 maxes out at 16mbps. I should have said Cat 5...or maybe better. I would guess it's using Gigabit speeds. Here's why: IEEE1394(a) is 400mbps and USB 2.0 is 480mbps. I seriously doubt Denon would use 100mbps as their gateway to a high rez link.

Of course I could be wrong. :) :)

I did spend some money on an aftermarket power cable for the 3910. Since I installed some other new cables at the same time, including new speaker cables, I can't give any honest feedback as to how much improvement, if any, it made. Normally I would test one at a time, but it's a big pain to get behind my system, and I chose to do it only once. For the 3910, I went with one of these:

http://signalcable.com/digitalpowerHC.html

Yep, me too. I did the power cables on my ATI 2007 and Hsu sub amp. I also did both at once AND installed some RGPC 400 MkII power conditioners (on the whole system). I definitely see a difference in my PQ and "think" I hear a difference as well, but I, too, did everything at once and am unable to separate any improvements and attribute them to one or the other. I do plan on using the system like this for another week or so and then YANK the new stuff and return the system to its original state. Going "back" should make any improvements more noticeable.

Cat 3 isn't telephone cable, but it's not Fast Ethernet either. Cat 3 was for original Ethernet and Cat 3 maxes out at 16mbps. I should have said Cat 5...or maybe better. I would guess it's using Gigabit speeds. Here's why: IEEE1394(a) is 400mbps and USB 2.0 is 480mbps. I seriously doubt Denon would use 100mbps as their gateway to a high rez link.

Of course I could be wrong. :) :)

Somebody here probably knows the data rate of the DL bitstream . . .

From the DL3 approval press release:

Key features:

- Ultra-fast 1.2GB a second transmission
- Jitter free
- Carries all digital audio standards
- Outperforms HDMI
- Outperforms IEEE-1394 (also known as iLink or FireWire)

So, basically three times the firewire speed...assuming this is correct :rolleyes:

Ted

I'm not looking for the magic cable or anything, nor do I care enough to spend the very best on replacing power cords etc, but like I said...manufacturers usually "pack the crap" if they're giving it to you for "free." Just wondering if there's a decent alternative...or for that matter, whether or not it makes a difference.

Jason

I'm not looking for the magic cable or anything, nor do I care enough to spend the very best on replacing power cords etc, but like I said...manufacturers usually "pack the crap" if they're giving it to you for "free." Just wondering if there's a decent alternative...or for that matter, whether or not it makes a difference.

Jason

Unless your location has an emi or rfi problem, I wouldn't waste my time looking for another cable. Digital cables are very resistant to transmission loss. You would probably know it if the signal is being degraded to the point where the 1s and 0s are no longer getting through to the other side intact.

I'm not looking for the magic cable or anything, nor do I care enough to spend the very best on replacing power cords etc, but like I said...manufacturers usually "pack the crap" if they're giving it to you for "free." Just wondering if there's a decent alternative...or for that matter, whether or not it makes a difference.

Jason

How's $3 to $6 (http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/cat-6_cables.html) sound?

The DL3 cables provided are shielded CAT?. A non shielded cable might work fine, but at "1.2GB" per second, I wouldn't try it. They are probably CAT6. Even gigabit ethernet is 1Gbps (small "b" so thats's bits, "B" usually means bytes or x8 bits) Ted, are you sure that shouldn't be a small "b"?
The cable looks pretty good to me, but if you want a "high end" cable get a CAT6 (or CAT7) "STP" cable that is better made somehow.

The DL3 cables provided are shielded CAT?.


There's a CAT7 now?!

The DL3 cables provided are shielded CAT?. A non shielded cable might work fine, but at "1.2GB" per second, I wouldn't try it. They are probably CAT6. Even gigabit ethernet is 1Gbps (small "b" so thats's bits, "B" usually means bytes or x8 bits) Ted, are you sure that shouldn't be a small "b"?
The cable looks pretty good to me, but if you want a "high end" cable get a CAT6 (or CAT7) "STP" cable that is better made somehow.


It came right off the press announcement:
http://www.highfidelityreview.com/news/news.asp?newsnumber=11994086

This thread reiterates it (cat5, too):
http://jbmaudio.com/Forums/index.php?board=9;action=display;threadid=569

Ted

something is obviously amiss here since an HDTV stream is about 19Mbps; neither SACD nor DVD-A can possibly approach that bitstream.

i'm sure that 1394 has ample bandwidth to accomodate either format.

Has anyone heard any new juicy news on the DL3 firmware yet? I'm getting anxious.

Has anyone heard any new juicy news on the DL3 firmware yet? I'm getting anxious.


I was told next month by a Denon rep in NJ.

Received the following email from Denon the other night:

Dear Denon DVD Owner,

We apologize for the long delay as we are currently backlogged. Your firmware upgrade has been processed and you should be receiving it shortly by mail. Some of you may notice on our website that a newer version of firmware has recently been posted compared to the one you may have requested. If you are receiving this e-mail, you do not need to reregister for this latest version as your previous upgrade request was automatically upgraded to the latest version due to our delay. The rest of you will receive the latest version as you have requested.

Thank you.

Best Regards,

J. McGuinness
Denon Electronics (USA), LLC
19C Chapin Road, Suite 205
Pine Brook, N.J. 07058-9385
j_mcguinness@denonnj.com
(973) 396-0810 Main x492
(877) 983-3666 Toll Free x492
(973) 396-7492 Direct
(973) 396-7459 Fax

www.usa.denon.com

Do you suppose that the DL3 update will be a stand-alone thing or do you think it will incorporate all of the previous updates as has been the case to date?

something is obviously amiss here since an HDTV stream is about 19Mbps; neither SACD nor DVD-A can possibly approach that bitstream.

i'm sure that 1394 has ample bandwidth to accomodate either format.

Are you speaking as an engineer from Sony or a marketing exec from Denon?

where's my smiley ?

:)

Do you suppose that the DL3 update will be a stand-alone thing or do you think it will incorporate all of the previous updates as has been the case to date?
It will probably be a stand alone update as it will be used for currently three different players, the 3910, 5900 and 5910. And, I hope that's all it does as my 5900 has been made region free and I don't want to have to go through that process again.

Ted, are you sure that shouldn't be a small "b"?


Yes it should, no way it's gigabytes per second. It's really just a souped-up firewire connection and those are only capable of 800Mbps.

I asked the question earlier in the thread (somewhere in the last 183 pages!)...is there an alternative to the supplied DenonLink cable that came with the 3910? Manufacturer supplied cables are usually pretty ******, so I was just wondering what other options, if any, were out there.

Jason

I am using a 6 ft piece of CAT 6 and it works just fine (3910 to 3805) :)

Yes it should, no way it's gigabytes per second. It's really just a souped-up firewire connection and those are only capable of 800Mbps.

I agree that it's probably not gigaBYTES. However, according to specs, Cat 7 (if that is the cable that's being used) is capable of transfer speeds of 1.2Ghz. I'm not quite sure how throughput would be calculated.

Denon link is NOT souped up Firewire (IEEE1394). It's an RJ-45 interface that's being used to transfer the data, which is most commonly used by Ethernet. IEEE1394 comes in two flavors: 1394A - 400Mbps and 1394B - 800Mbps

The latter isn't widely accepted...yet. IEEE1394 and Denon Link are not synonymous. Physical interfaces are different and I'm positive signaling mechanisms are also different.

Recently bought the DVD player from J&R in NY
(Authorized dealer - excellent price better then eBay).

I have DVD player hooked up to Anthem AVM30 with analog
for 6-Channels and Digital Optical cable for DVD.
In the audio setup I have direct and every thing else is
just the factory default.

Playing DVD movie or DVD audio has no issue, I am having
some issues with SACD. The sound only comes from the FL & FR
even though the player indicates all 5.1 channels and MULTI is selected.
It shows SACD is playing with all channels, not sure what is going on.

Your help is highly appreciated. If some one with AVM30 or Statement D1
can let me know if some setup need to be changed.

Thanks

Playing DVD movie or DVD audio has no issue, I am having
some issues with SACD. The sound only comes from the FL & FR
even though the player indicates all 5.1 channels and MULTI is selected.
It shows SACD is playing with all channels, not sure what is going on.

First check to make sure the SACD you're playing is multichannel and not just stereo.

turn off direct

I tried the following 2 CDs which are SACD not sure if they are multi channels :

1) Concord Jazz Super Audio CD Sampler, Vol. 2
2) Dark Side of the Moon 30th Anniversary Edition [HYBRID SACD]

I do not have any other CD's which I can try. If you know any multip channesl
SACD that I sould try please let me know.

Thanks

I tried the following 2 CDs which are SACD not sure if they are multi channels :

1) Concord Jazz Super Audio CD Sampler, Vol. 2
2) Dark Side of the Moon 30th Anniversary Edition [HYBRID SACD]

I do not have any other CD's which I can try. If you know any multip channesl
SACD that I sould try please let me know.

Thanks

Go into your 3910 setup. In the Audio setup tab, make sure 'audio channel' is set to 'multichannel'. Then click on multichannel (one more layer down) and make sure center, sub, surrounds are turned on in the 'speaker configuration' tab.

get out of set up, see if this works. If not, go into your 'SACD Setup' selection on the remote and make sure 'multi' is selected.

You could aslo try to reset the unit if all the above fails, see page 79 of manual.

Make sure your pre/pro is set up to read all 6 ext in channels.



It would be a good idea to get the latest firmware if you don't already have it, from the Denon USA site.

. If not, go into your 'SACD Setup' selection on the remote and make sure 'multi' is selected.

Y

This is likely where it is happening. In DVD-A land, you pick the layer from a video menu or you default to that layer; i.e it's a software-driven decision. In SACD land you must tell the player (hardware decision) to go to mch (via remote in your case). Both of your SACD examples are hybrid multichannel releases.

Ted

This is likely where it is happening. In DVD-A land, you pick the layer from a video menu or you default to that layer; i.e it's a software-driven decision. In SACD land you must tell the player (hardware decision) to go to mch (via remote in your case). Both of your SACD examples are hybrid multichannel releases.

Ted

Sony. No baloney.

Denon link is NOT souped up Firewire (IEEE1394). It's an RJ-45 interface that's being used to transfer the data, which is most commonly used by Ethernet. IEEE1394 comes in two flavors: 1394A - 400Mbps and 1394B - 800Mbps

The latter isn't widely accepted...yet. IEEE1394 and Denon Link are not synonymous. Physical interfaces are different and I'm positive signaling mechanisms are also different.
You're right, I over simplied in an effort to show that they are both mechanisms to transport the same data so to think that one of them would have over 200 times more capacity than the other would be unrealistic if only for the reason that it would be unnecessary.

I made the plunge. I ordered a 3910 today. It wont be in for a couple weeks.

Im already having buyers remorse. Im just wondering when the new models are supposed to be out. am I on the tail end of this thing as it is? I dont have a denon receiver so the denon link means nothing to me. I have been using a panasonic rp-62 for the last couple of years. I am getting married in november and this would be my last purchase for a couple of years probably. I hear denon's support is lame.

I am mainly purchasing it for the audio side moreso than the video. I want to have a quality audio/universal player. have I made a good choice? My system consists of p-965 pre, cinnenova grande 5 amp, b&w N804's for front, Nhtm1 for center, NSCM1's for sides and a pair of Nhtm2's for back's.

sikoniko,

Don't worry. You made a good choice. For players under $2K(or more?), the 3910 is the best or second best sounding player you can buy. The P965 has a nice stereo and 5.1 analog bypass, so it is a good match for the 3910. And... down the road, you can mod it and make it the best sounding universal player at any cost. :)

I am mainly purchasing it for the audio side moreso than the video. I want to have a quality audio/universal player. have I made a good choice? My system consists of p-965 pre, cinnenova grande 5 amp, b&w N804's for front, Nhtm1 for center, NSCM1's for sides and a pair of Nhtm2's for back's.

You have made an excellent choice! Only a 2910 owner could argue against it being the best universal DVD deck for the price. And while you may have bought it specifically for the audio, the video is outstandng as well.

I made the plunge. I ordered a 3910 today. It wont be in for a couple weeks.

Im already having buyers remorse. Im just wondering when the new models are supposed to be out. am I on the tail end of this thing as it is? I dont have a denon receiver so the denon link means nothing to me. I have been using a panasonic rp-62 for the last couple of years. I am getting married in november and this would be my last purchase for a couple of years probably. I hear denon's support is lame.

I am mainly purchasing it for the audio side moreso than the video. I want to have a quality audio/universal player. have I made a good choice? My system consists of p-965 pre, cinnenova grande 5 amp, b&w N804's for front, Nhtm1 for center, NSCM1's for sides and a pair of Nhtm2's for back's.


sikoniko,

you have made a wise choice.....I was in your shoes, and ended up with this bad boy after extensive research, and 2 final showdowns with the 59avi... You will not find a better player for the money anywhere in the world in my opinion, and in the opinion of the following people:

Secrets of HomeTheater hifi:
Player of the year, 2004, 2nd highest score in benchmark (next to 5910).
( http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all )

“Essential Hi-Fi & home cinema” magazine features “50 of the best entertainment products for 2005” in issue 4 special awards edition.
Luxury DVD Player category
Denon DVD-3910 Awards 2005 Winner
( http://www.homecinemachoice.com/essentialhomecinema/magazine/ )

The Hi-Fi Choice Awards 2004-2005, December 2004 issue
DVD-3910: “GOLD AWARD” BEST DVD PLAYER _500-_1,000
( http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/ )

Sound and Vision Magazine
DVD of the year: Denon DVD-3910
I cant find the article online, but here is the review the month before:
( http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=1&article_id=727&page_number=1 )

“WHAT HI-FI? SOUND AND VISION”, November 2004.
WINNERS of “WHAT HI-FI? SOUND AND VISION” MEGATEST DVD/AV:
DVD-3910/AVR-3805
( http://www.whathifi.com/ )

Audioholics 2004 Product of the year awards
DVD Player: Denon DVD-3910
( http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/2004productawards.html )

and more.......

The only caviat is that if your display suffers from MB with Faroudja chipsets than perhaps the SP1000 (ABout $500 more) or 59avi (about $300 less) will serve you better, but if not, then sit back, relax and enjoy the best player money can buy ;)

I made the plunge. I ordered a 3910 today. It wont be in for a couple weeks.

Im already having buyers remorse. Im just wondering when the new models are supposed to be out. am I on the tail end of this thing as it is? I dont have a denon receiver so the denon link means nothing to me. I have been using a panasonic rp-62 for the last couple of years. I am getting married in november and this would be my last purchase for a couple of years probably.

Take it from me, November is a great time to get married. :)

You have made an excellent choice in DVD players. ssabripo just made an awesome post with the references that basically reassert your purchase. Of course we're a little biased since you posted in the 3910 owner's thread, but I'm sure you'll be pleased as well. If not, you could always say hello to the 59avi owners.

IMHO, the audio capabilities of this player is what sets it apart from the rest. Enjoy!

Anyone ever compared the 3910 and the Marantz 9500 ?

You have made an excellent choice! Only a 2910 owner could argue against it being the best universal DVD deck for the price. And while you may have bought it specifically for the audio, the video is outstandng as well.


I thought the superior audio is what set the 3910 apart from the 2910?

Received the following email from Denon the other night:

Dear Denon DVD Owner,

We apologize for the long delay as we are currently backlogged. Your firmware upgrade has been processed and you should be receiving it shortly by mail. Some of you may notice on our website that a newer version of firmware has recently been posted compared to the one you may have requested. If you are receiving this e-mail, you do not need to reregister for this latest version as your previous upgrade request was automatically upgraded to the latest version due to our delay. The rest of you will receive the latest version as you have requested.

Do you suppose that the DL3 update will be a stand-alone thing or do you think it will incorporate all of the previous updates as has been the case to date?

I got the same e-mail on Wednesday. On Friday I got a three disc set from Denon with version 9-B on it.

I thought the superior audio is what set the 3910 apart from the 2910?
Audio in general (SACD, DVD-A, and redbook CD) is what really stands the 3910 apart from the 2910 (video to a lesser extent).

I thought the superior audio is what set the 3910 apart from the 2910?

He sounded like he was minimizing the video and I just wanted to make the point that the video is excellent as well.

I noticed an odd thing last night. Using the 1394 connection to my receiver, at first I was unable to get video off of DVD-A discs. I fooled with the options on the 3910 and found a setting for either audio or video. It was set to audio while I wasn' getting any video output; OK, I switched it to video. Now, while playing a DVD-A disc I was able to see the video that was associated with the material.

BUT, now I noticed that what I was being presented on the audio side was merely the DD5.1 material as opposed to the true DVD-A material (i.e., advanced resolution material).

Is there no way to have it play the true DVD-A sound along with the video? On the disc I was messing with, I found no options on the disc itself to allow selection of the DVD-A music while viewing the video and I could find no other settings on the 3910 that might otherwise correct the situation.

Anyone?

pepar and BillP, thanks for confirming the superiority of the audio on th 3910 over the 2910...that is what moved me to the 3910 over the 2910 since I had just read a stellar review on the 2910's video prowess but I fealt that my primary reason for buying was the audio...with HiDef DVD players on the horizon (whatever format), I see the video portion a stopgap.

HOWEVER, the video performance is superb and I am very happy using this unit until the HD players come along.

BenDover, wasn't that fixed in one of Denon's firmware upgrades?

I noticed an odd thing last night. Using the 1394 connection to my receiver, at first I was unable to get video off of DVD-A discs. I fooled with the options on the 3910 and found a setting for either audio or video. It was set to audio while I wasn' getting any video output; OK, I switched it to video. Now, while playing a DVD-A disc I was able to see the video that was associated with the material.

BUT, now I noticed that what I was being presented on the audio side was merely the DD5.1 material as opposed to the true DVD-A material (i.e., advanced resolution material).

Is there no way to have it play the true DVD-A sound along with the video? On the disc I was messing with, I found no options on the disc itself to allow selection of the DVD-A music while viewing the video and I could find no other settings on the 3910 that might otherwise correct the situation.

Anyone?

Realize that on most DVD-A discs the music video portion is in the Video_TOC folder (i.e when you tell the player to go into DVD-V or video mode). That's also where you'll find other DVD-V gems like the DTS and Dolby Digital lossy tracks. When you tell the player to be a DVD-Audio player it only reads the AUDIO_TOC folder and that's where the 2 channel and 5.1 channel MLP and/or lpcm lossless hi-rez tracks are. Beck's Guero (a 24/48 DVD-A with a little room left on the Audio_TOC side) is one of the only DVD-A discs I can think of right now that has rudimentary videos on the DVD-A portion. In Guero's case, they are more like a slideshow.

All that being said, if what you are saying is you get NO video (i.e can't see the DVD-Audio pick menus, possible screenshot and lyric menus) then yeah, you have a problem, or a problem was fixed via firmware, as proposed above..

Ted

pepar and BillP, thanks for confirming the superiority of the audio on th 3910 over the 2910...that is what moved me to the 3910 over the 2910 since I had just read a stellar review on the 2910's video prowess but I fealt that my primary reason for buying was the audio...with HiDef DVD players on the horizon (whatever format), I see the video portion a stopgap.

HOWEVER, the video performance is superb and I am very happy using this unit until the HD players come along.

Yes, and what a "stopgap" it is! You have nailed it for me as well; how much to spend - and on what - in the year or two before a new hi-def optical format hits? No way I was going to spring for a 5900 or 5910, but the 3910 met both my budget and performance criteria. I'd guess that I'd have been happy with a 2910 as well, but I certainly have NO regrets.

I too wish there was a DVD-A selector button on the remote like there is for SACD discs. Going into the menu to switch/listen to DVD-A stereo or multichannel or video or... is really a pain in the arse.

All that being said, if what you are saying is you get NO video (i.e can't see the DVD-Audio pick menus, possible screenshot and lyric menus) then yeah, you have a problem, or a problem was fixed via firmware, as proposed above..

Ted

I'd imagine this "hi-rez audio or video & DD/DTS" issue will disappear when HD discs hit.

I have a Pioneer 56txi receiver and was told by my salesperson that the ilink on this player does not work with the 1394 on my 3910. He even tried it in front of me at the showroom which confirmed what he had said. Have not tried this since and have gone through cables to get SACD and DVD-A. Does the latest firmware resolve this issue with Pioneer receivers?

kaduku,

Your problem may lie with Pioneer and not with Denon. Isn't the Pioneer iLink a proprietary connection which only(?) works with other Pioneer units?

I know Bendover is using a non-Denon receiver (not Pioneer) with his 3910 via 1394.

What iLink error message(on your receiver's front panel) are you seeing when you hook up the 3910? (page 97 of Pioneer 56txi user manual)

Here is a quote from Kris Deering regarding this:
A word of caution though, the 1394 outputs of this player feature two separate output formats. One is a proprietary Denon clocking system that is only compatible with future Denon products yet to be announced. The other is an open standard and conforms to A&M protocol. I'm not sure if this is the same on the 3910 or if both outputs are now industry standards?

Although Kris was talking about the 5900, it may apply to the 3910 as well? You might want to try the other 1394 output on the Denon and see if that works?

What iLink error message(on your receiver's front panel) are you seeing when you hook up the 3910? (page 97 of Pioneer 56txi user manual)

Sorry, I don't remember. Though from what I do remember from the showroom, the display on the receiver did not have the ilink and SACD lit, and of course no sound.

Has anyone been able to successfully burn the firmware discs using Mac OS X, or am I stuck waiting for Denon to send me the discs in the mail?

thanks

Recently bought the DVD player from J&R in NY
(Authorized dealer - excellent price better then eBay).

I have DVD player hooked up to Anthem AVM30 with analog
for 6-Channels and Digital Optical cable for DVD.
In the audio setup I have direct and every thing else is
just the factory default.
Thanks

Would you mind sharing the rest of your system (amp and speakers)? I'm seriously considering the AVM30 to go with my 3910.

Unfortunately I don't have an answer to your question.

No problems with the 56TXi and the 3910 combo. The Pioneer even recognizes the DVD-A bit rate information and displays it on the front panel (i.e. DVD-A 192 khz, DVD-A 88.1khz etc). Your sales rep needs more training.

Anyone with the 3910 and JVC DILA??? Thanks for any feedback on this combo!

Audio in general (SACD, DVD-A, and redbook CD) is what really stands the 3910 apart from the 2910 (video to a lesser extent).

Sorry to ask a stupid question, but I have seen the term "redbook cd" mentioned a few times. What exactly is the difference of redbook and normal cd's ? Thanks

redbook cd = normal cd

http://www.jhepple.com/AudioCD/redbook.htm

Scarlet Book = SACD

DVD-A is Book C of the DVD spec as set by the DVD Forum.

No problems with the 56TXi and the 3910 combo. The Pioneer even recognizes the DVD-A bit rate information and displays it on the front panel (i.e. DVD-A 192 khz, DVD-A 88.1khz etc). Your sales rep needs more training.

Those are sampling rates and not bit rates.

The official specifications for the CD format was published in a red book, hence the name.

Hey guys, I'm planning to upgrade to either the 5910 or the Marantz 9500. My mint 3910 is up for sale at Videogon/Audiogon.

Hey guys, I'm planning to upgrade to either the 5910 or the Marantz 9500. My mint 3910 is up for sale at Videogon/Audiogon.

Hi Martin,

I hope this is not an impertinent question that offends you, but could you please share your thinking on spending that much money on a DVD player in the face of the upcoming hi-def optical discs, especially when you already own the excellent 3910? Faced with the same fork in the road, I could not bring myself to drop the additional $$$ some months ago when I purchased my 3910.

In any case, good luck selling your 3910; I am certain you will have no trouble!

BR,

Jeff

Peper, that's a reasonable question I've asked myself more than a few times. I've been the first on the block with new formats since the Sony Walkman and I'm weary of that game. Sony usually puts out a tank of a first generation player and then improves on features while downgrading build quality. If I was certain the audio factors like SACD/DVD-A, Redbook CD, etc. would be equal, as well as standard def DVD's, I'd wait for the new format. In reality it will probably be the usual year and a half until HD-DVD's are readily available and then it'll be at a premium. I've got an InFocus 4805 DLP projector, so the higher res isn't such a big factor until I upgrade that. I figure to wait until the bugs are worked out and there's a consensus as to which models are the best. Today, Onkyo, Pioneer, Denon and Marantz have great top of the line pieces to choose from. I think I'll just wait this one out.

Peper, that's a reasonable question I've asked myself more than a few times. I've been the first on the block with new formats since the Sony Walkman and I'm weary of that game. Sony usually puts out a tank of a first generation player and then improves on features while downgrading build quality. If I was certain the audio factors like SACD/DVD-A, Redbook CD, etc. would be equal, as well as standard def DVD's, I'd wait for the new format. In reality it will probably be the usual year and a half until HD-DVD's are readily available and then it'll be at a premium. I've got an InFocus 4805 DLP projector, so the higher res isn't such a big factor until I upgrade that. I figure to wait until the bugs are worked out and there's a consensus as to which models are the best. Today, Onkyo, Pioneer, Denon and Marantz have great top of the line pieces to choose from. I think I'll just wait this one out.

Sound thinking indeed, Martin, especially on the 1st gen tank analogy. While baseline HD disc performance will most assuredly blow the doors off of our Denons' standard - though nicely upscaled - picture and sound, even the most well-heeled HT nut will have a large "legacy" collection of DVDs for quite some time. And there's no guarantee that the new decks will perform on DVDs as good as our Denons. In fact, I'd venture to say that in order to keep the 1st gen costs down, they will NOT extract the same quality out of DVDs. Like you, I'll wait a year or two before jumping in.

Thanks for the insightful reply.

Peper, that's a reasonable question I've asked myself more than a few times. I've been the first on the block with new formats since the Sony Walkman and I'm weary of that game. Sony usually puts out a tank of a first generation player and then improves on features while downgrading build quality. If I was certain the audio factors like SACD/DVD-A, Redbook CD, etc. would be equal, as well as standard def DVD's, I'd wait for the new format. In reality it will probably be the usual year and a half until HD-DVD's are readily available and then it'll be at a premium. I've got an InFocus 4805 DLP projector, so the higher res isn't such a big factor until I upgrade that. I figure to wait until the bugs are worked out and there's a consensus as to which models are the best. Today, Onkyo, Pioneer, Denon and Marantz have great top of the line pieces to choose from. I think I'll just wait this one out.

Agree with you completly, Martin. That's why I went for the 5910. But top of the line Onkyo, Marantz, etc. would also be good choices for those wishing to go that route.
Only problem I see now is that I'm going to have to make sure my next tv has more than one hdmi port. :)

I just did a firmware update, but after the process, the panel never displayed 'COMPLETE'. All it's doing is blinking the 1080i and HDMI indicators on and off. Has anyone had this same problem with the latest update?

Ahab, I think HT receivers and processors with switchable HDMI inputs are the way I'd like to see things progress. The new Denon receivers(6 series) are supposed to have this feature from what I've heard so a single HDMI input on a Video monitor won't be a big problem.

I has never made much sense for anyone to run different sources into the same video display input. If performance means anything to the user, he is gonna want to calibrate each input individually for each specific source. The only reason to run everything video into one input or through one receiver/pre-pro is for simply convenience sake. IMO.

I agree with Merc. My settings for DVD are vastly different than my cable settings.

I see you point Merc. I guess the projector would have to have multiple memory settings so that you could adjust for various differences between sources. It does sound less complicated especially if audio transmitted via HDMI becomes the standard.

redbook cd = normal cd

http://www.jhepple.com/AudioCD/redbook.htm

Thanks for the link Sam

I just did a firmware update, but after the process, the panel never displayed 'COMPLETE'. All it's doing is blinking the 1080i and HDMI indicators on and off. Has anyone had this same problem with the latest update?

My last firmware upgrade to my 3910 was back in February and had no problems, but there is a thread at the HT Spot that pretty well walks you thru the latest upgrade, which I understand is three discs,.

Since the latest upgrade really doesnt affect my players performance via DVI, I am going to wait until the upgrade for SACD-D-Link is out before tackling what could be a very difficult task.

Anyway I'm sure you'll find some help here if you havent already visited the thread

http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/693823/an/0/page/0#693823

No, there is not a way to burn the update to CD using MAC OS X. You have to wait for Denon to send you a disc.

Im having a little problem accessing the bonus tracks on Elton Johns "Goodby Yellow Brick Road" (DVD-A). The 4 additional tracks are in a sub menu. When I select "Bonus Tracks" (which are tracks 18-21) it throws me back to the main menu. I cant access them directly via the remote or through the menus.

Any ideas?

I agree with Merc. My settings for DVD are vastly different than my cable settings.

How does one calibrate with cable as a source? Somebody broadcasting the necessary images? Do it by "eye?"

pepar,
It depends on your TV. Most calibrators have patern generators that have a coax out on them and can use those to calibrate you coax in on your TV. Another way, depending on the tv, is to use the composite out of a DVD player. A lot of TV's (My Hitachi for instance), the compoiste in and the ANT-A and ANT-B share the same settings in the service menu. So I can use the composite out of the DVD player and get the cable input properly calibrated.

pepar,
It depends on your TV. Most calibrators have patern generators that have a coax out on them and can use those to calibrate you coax in on your TV. Another way, depending on the tv, is to use the composite out of a DVD player. A lot of TV's (My Hitachi for instance), the compoiste in and the ANT-A and ANT-B share the same settings in the service menu. So I can use the composite out of the DVD player and get the cable input properly calibrated.

So we're calibrating the display device to a standard and then relying on the various broadcasts and other feeds to have produced their content to the standard?

Yes...but it is a leap of faith at best. For most channels in my cable system it looks pretty good, but never as good as DVD or HDTV for that matter. But at least it is better than OTB settings.

I think I remember another thread where this came up and someone posted that HDNet put up a test pattern w/pluge at some wee hour of the morning, but I've never taken the time to look for it.

My last firmware upgrade to my 3910 was back in February and had no problems, but there is a thread at the HT Spot that pretty well walks you thru the latest upgrade, which I understand is three discs,.

Since the latest upgrade really doesnt affect my players performance via DVI, I am going to wait until the upgrade for SACD-D-Link is out before tackling what could be a very difficult task.

Anyway I'm sure you'll find some help here if you havent already visited the thread

http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/693823/an/0/page/0#693823


Thanks for the link. I did the upgrade and my black level over HDMI was the same whether it was on NORMAL or ENHANCED. Then I realized that Y PR PB should be when I use component cables. I should have been using RGB.

Thanks for the link. I did the upgrade and my black level over HDMI was the same whether it was on NORMAL or ENHANCED. Then I realized that Y PR PB should be when I use component cables. I should have been using RGB.


so are you saying that when using HDMI (or DVI), one should be using RGB? :confused:

I thought it was teh other way around, that when using the digital connection, you should be using Y Cb Cr HDMI setting...

anyone care to explain.... :(

Yup... if I can?
If I understand correctly.............
The signal sent digitally via HDMI/DVI can be sent in a number of different video formats. One way is RGB/HV which is apparently an 8 bit underlying signal and the other is a component type, Y Cb Cr, 10 bit signal. If someone is using an HDMI to HDMI connection, there may be no visible difference between the two different formats. But, if one is using an HDMI output, and a DVI input, the RGB type should be used because the 2 bits from the component signal will be clipped by the conversion from HDMI to DVI or from DVI to RGB/analog... or something like that?

I think it was Kris Deering who first mentioned and noted this in some thread here on AVS?

can anyone recommend video settings?
I seem to recall the "secrets review" saying what to change- but I can't find that post anymore.
thanks.

Yup... if I can?
If I understand correctly.............
The signal sent digitally via HDMI/DVI can be sent in a number of different video formats. One way is RGB/HV which is apparently an 8 bit underlying signal and the other is a component type, Y Cb Cr, 10 bit signal. If someone is using an HDMI to HDMI connection, there may be no visible difference between the two different formats. But, if one is using an HDMI output, and a DVI input, the RGB type should be used because the 2 bits from the component signal will be clipped by the conversion from HDMI to DVI or from DVI to RGB/analog... or something like that?

I think it was Kris Deering who first mentioned and noted this in some thread here on AVS?


Ok, so in my case, going HDMI<-->HDMI, then the Y Cb Cr setting should be the right one, correct?

I was using this setting all this time because of exactly what you said, when Kris explained that the 8bit to 10 bit cuttoff occurs in DVI connections, and thus, when using stictly HDMI, the Y Cb Cr setting is what you wanted. :o

Ok, so in my case, going HDMI<-->HDMI, then the Y Cb Cr setting should be the right one, correct?

I was using this setting all this time because of exactly what you said, when Kris explained that the 8bit to 10 bit cuttoff occurs in DVI connections, and thus, when using stictly HDMI, the Y Cb Cr setting is what you wanted. :o
As usual, the correct answer is that good ol' favourite, "it depends on your display" :rolleyes:

Some displays (e.g. Pio plasma's) don't do the HDMI YCbCr well (they look "washed-out") so you should still try both and see what looks best.

Tonight I updated from firmware -6 to 6609-B, and things went smoothly and the player seems perfectly normal. I did not, however, do Step 3 (Initialize the Player) and am wondering how necessary this really is. I have confirmed that the update was successful, but am hesitant to initialize since I'd rather not lose and then have to reset all my setttings (I previously had my display ISF calibrated for this input and it looks perfect as is).

What does the initializing do, and am I missing anything by not doing it?

Thanks,

Joel

Denon Germany has posted the details for the upgrade to DL 3rd.

http://www.denon-rma.de/dl3.php

Highlights:

* The upgrade is free of charge for customers living in Germany, who own a DVD-3910, DVD-A11 or DVD-A1XV in combination with a DL 3rd capable A/V Receiver or Amp and who register for the upgrade until 12/31/2005

* Depending on the player a software or hardware modification is required:
- DVD-A1XV and DVD-A11 both require a hardware modification that can only be done by DENON.
- for the 3910 it is a software update only.

* Denon Germany will send out the software for the 3910 but warns customers that they do the update at their own risk. The site says that repairing a machine after a failed update is complex and costly. They recommend to ask an authorized dealer to do the update instead.

* They also say that you are not supposed to apply non-certified firmware (i.e. codefree) after the update because you could loose the DL3 and other functionality of the player.

To register, one has to enter the serial numbers of the player as well as of the DL3 capable A/V Receiver or Amp.

That's it. I'll register tonight because I don't have the serials with me right now. :D

Looks like they don't want people to link to the update page directly. You can find the link here: http://www.denon.de/site/frames_main.php?main=news

Click on "Dann auf zur Registrierung..."

Denon Germany has posted the details for the upgrade to DL 3rd.

To register, one has to enter the serial numbers of the player as well as of the DL3 capable A/V Receiver or Amp.

That's it. I'll register tonight because I don't have the serials with me right now. :D

Interesting that you need two serial numbers. Leaves out people that may buy a Denon A/V down the road if the 12/05 cut off date is firm.

Interesting that you need two serial numbers. Leaves out people that may buy a Denon A/V down the road if the 12/05 cut off date is firm.

A little trick used by some here who "couldn't find" their serial number was to use the one on the unit pictured on Denon's site - perhaps there's a receiver serial number to be gleaned from their site . . .

A little trick used by some here who "couldn't find" their serial number was to use the one on the unit pictured on Denon's site - perhaps there's a receiver serial number to be gleaned from their site . . .
Unfortunately, the receivers at their site do not have the serial #s pictured.

On another note, I called Denon yesterday and spoke with somebody about the upgrade and he assured me that it was indeed software based, but wouldn't indicate whether or not the upgrade would be available for download or have to be ordered and shipped out. Very hush hush over there...:D

Jason

[QUOTE=Tom Grooms]Im having a little problem accessing the bonus tracks on Elton Johns "Goodby Yellow Brick Road" (DVD-A). The 4 additional tracks are in a sub menu. When I select "Bonus Tracks" (which are tracks 18-21) it throws me back to the main menu. I cant access them directly via the remote or through the menus.

Any ideas?

I am having the same problem with my 3910 & Elton John "Good By Yellow Road DVD-Audio Disc, it plays the bonus tracks fine on my sony :confused: i was told by denon the new update should take care of it but i have not got it in the mail yet,
i allso have been having problems with the new AC/DC back in black dule disc,it skips will bad on that one "audio side" but plays fine on my old sony dvp-S9000ES,i have all the updates but the new May one & hope it takes care of these problems.....Jim

I was perusing Denon's site yesterday (in hope of finding a DL3 upgrade!) and stumbled across their DualDisc FAQ page. They pretty much say that the DVD-A side on many DualDiscs will not play on some of their players, but don't give any specifics or definites.

http://usa.denon.com/support/faqs_ddisc.asp

Jason

I just spent almost 20 min reading thru the whole BTB thread, and after the first page or so, it deteriorated into petty comments.

I know the Aug, Sept, and Oct dates are supposed to be the "bad" ones, but can someone confirm this..... Also, are the Nov, dec, and any of the '05 builds show signs of BTB issues?

My cousin is about to buy one and we wanted to verify this so we can check at the dealer when buying it..thanks in advance

Very hush hush over there...:D

Yay!! :p

I just registered for my update and in addtion to the serials I had to enter the dealer names and purchase dates for both the player and the A/V.

On a different note, it's interesting that the DVD-5910 (DVD-A1XV, as they call it here) requires a hardware modification. Makes me wonder if even Denon had given up on DL3 when designing this brand new player. :rolleyes:

I was perusing Denon's site yesterday (in hope of finding a DL3 upgrade!) and stumbled across their DualDisc FAQ page. They pretty much say that the DVD-A side on many DualDiscs will not play on some of their players, but don't give any specifics or definites.

http://usa.denon.com/support/faqs_ddisc.asp

Jason
Reminds me of their statement from a couple of years ago when the DVD-2800 was not capable of playing back copy protected audio-CDs that the music industry was testing with their customers here in Europe. Soon after, Denon released the MKII model of the 2800 :mad:

I had the same problem with my 3910 and the ac/dc dual disc.

please see...

http://www.usa.denon.com/support/faqs_ddisc.asp

When I copied the CD side to a CD-R, the 3910 had no problems with it then.

I'm saying away from dual disks after buying two and having problems with them on a number of players.

I just spent almost 20 min reading thru the whole BTB thread, and after the first page or so, it deteriorated into petty comments.

I know the Aug, Sept, and Oct dates are supposed to be the "bad" ones, but can someone confirm this..... Also, are the Nov, dec, and any of the '05 builds show signs of BTB issues?

My cousin is about to buy one and we wanted to verify this so we can check at the dealer when buying it..thanks in advance

I need a refresher on these dates also. I read the entire thread a few weeks back, but I am not sure exactly which months are the ones affected by the BTB problem. Is it only Aug, Sep and Oct ?

Yay!! :p

I just registered for my update and in addtion to the serials I had to enter the dealer names and purchase dates for both the player and the A/V.

On a different note, it's interesting that the DVD-5910 (DVD-A1XV, as they call it here) requires a hardware modification. Makes me wonder if even Denon had given up on DL3 when designing this brand new player. :rolleyes:

echnaton,

Did you get the update files electronically or are you getting them in the mail?

I would be curious to know what firmwares are updated in this upgrade.

Thanks
DigiPete

echnaton,

Did you get the update files electronically or are you getting them in the mail?

I would be curious to know what firmwares are updated in this upgrade.

Thanks
DigiPete

Site says that it will be 3 CDs via regular mail. I'll post more info once I have them.

Cheers!

Tonight I updated from firmware -6 to 6609-B, and things went smoothly and the player seems perfectly normal. I did not, however, do Step 3 (Initialize the Player) and am wondering how necessary this really is. I have confirmed that the update was successful, but am hesitant to initialize since I'd rather not lose and then have to reset all my setttings (I previously had my display ISF calibrated for this input and it looks perfect as is).

What does the initializing do, and am I missing anything by not doing it?

Thanks,

Joel

From what I've read, either here or in Denon's materials, the upgrade doesn't take effect until you perform that final step of initialization; that is similar to flash BIOS upgrades on computers and firmware updates on other electronic devices.

The guys at Denon "recommended" re-initializing the player after upgrading the firmware, but they admitted that it wasn't necessary. They likened it to restarting a computer after installing new software...it can't hurt to restart the computer, but it might not be necessary. I've done it both ways, and it's certainly easier not to re-initialize, but as long as you have all of your settings written down and don't mind taking the time to re-enter them, it can't hurt.

BTW, can't wait for DL3...or have I already mentioned that? :D Now just to finally pick out a new TV...:confused:

Jason