The guys at Denon "recommended" re-initializing the player after upgrading the firmware, but they admitted that it wasn't necessary. They likened it to restarting a computer after installing new software...it can't hurt to restart the computer, but it might not be necessary. I've done it both ways, and it's certainly easier not to re-initialize, but as long as you have all of your settings written down and don't mind taking the time to re-enter them, it can't hurt.

BTW, can't wait for DL3...or have I already mentioned that? :D Now just to finally pick out a new TV...:confused:

Jason

Thanks for this information. I just find it a bit strange that the front display would indicate that the update was applied if re-inititalizing was necessary to make the changes actually take hold. And I wonder why Denon includes the initialization as Step 3 if in fact it's really not necessary, and also why they say it's "recommended" if in fact it isn't necessary. The whole thing leaves me confused!

But as you say, it's not that big a deal to write down all of my settings, re-initialize it and then go back and re-set everything. I'm still concerned, however, that doing so will throw off the calibration somehow.

... I'm still concerned, however, that doing so will throw off the calibration somehow.

As long as you put in the same settings after you re-initialize the player, I don't see how that would throw off your ISF calibration.

The new firmwares do claim to make changes to the video quality; that may affect your calibration. But you have already installed it, so if you did not notice a change, then you should be good to go.

Thanks for this information. I just find it a bit strange that the front display would indicate that the update was applied if re-inititalizing was necessary to make the changes actually take hold. And I wonder why Denon includes the initialization as Step 3 if in fact it's really not necessary, and also why they say it's "recommended" if in fact it isn't necessary. The whole thing leaves me confused!

But as you say, it's not that big a deal to write down all of my settings, re-initialize it and then go back and re-set everything. I'm still concerned, however, that doing so will throw off the calibration somehow.


for the 10th millionth time.....you do NOT need to re-initialize! Re-initializing your machine is just to clear all memory settings and applies all the defaults back....it will do NOTHING to the firmware you just installed.

so, unless you enjoy going thru your menus and setting everything up (some do I suppose), you need not re-initialize your machine....the only reason denon "recommends" it is to cover their bases, in case on forgot to turn power off in the last step, or something....

Lets get this straight. Updating firmware is like updating the bios on a computer. The programming is stored on an eprom in the player. It sounds like there may be three eproms if you have three files to write with the latest update, but I suppose an eprom could be divided into areas that are written to separately. (I don't know this)

Every time you power up the machine (From power off, not from standby) it reads the code from the eproms and loads it into whatever operating memory it uses. Turning the machine all the way off and all the way back on is comparable to rebooting a computer. There must be non-volatile ram which stores your particular settings. (This means the info is not lost when you shut off the power) Resetting the machine clears this non-volatile ram, and restores the settings to the default, (Said default settings might very well be stored in the programming in the eprom).

The only time a firmware update might require a reset of the non-volatile ram would be if the range of acceptable values stored in the non-volatile ram were changed, thus making a stored setting invalid. This is probably uncommon, but it could happen.

On a typical one file firmware update, all updates must be cumulative, as they completely rewrite the code in the eprom, so each update file is actually a complete rewrite of the at least the section of the firmware they address. That is why you always loose your region free status every time you upgrade the firmware unless you are upgrading to new firmware that is region free, which will never be supplied by Denon in the US.

At least I think that's the way it works.

Allen

Allen....
The only time a firmware update might require a reset of the non-volatile ram would be if the range of acceptable values stored in the non-volatile ram were changed, thus making a stored setting invalid. This is probably uncommon, but it could happen.

I agree.

ssabripo...
for the 10th millionth time.....you do NOT need to re-initialize! Re-initializing your machine is just to clear all memory settings and applies all the defaults back....it will do NOTHING to the firmware you just installed.

I agree (again). This issue has been discussed umpteen number of times and still it continues to linger on...Even Denon's instructions for firmware upgrade don't mention about it (they do it on a different page as a part of a different process; not firmware upgrade). If re-initialization was really meant to take place, it could have been done as an assembly level instruction from within the new firmware itself rather than asking for hard-reset. Re-initialization does no harm though except you need to re-enter your menu settings. I never re-initialized, has no ill-effects and can see the changes the firmware was meant to effect.

for the 10th millionth time.....you do NOT need to re-initialize! Re-initializing your machine is just to clear all memory settings and applies all the defaults back....it will do NOTHING to the firmware you just installed.

so, unless you enjoy going thru your menus and setting everything up (some do I suppose), you need not re-initialize your machine....the only reason denon "recommends" it is to cover their bases, in case on forgot to turn power off in the last step, or something....

eh, what did you say? ...I'm a little hard of hearing, or is that hard-headed? :D

echnaton
What software version are they sending? I keep getting the same old may download:
Upgrade Version: ESS-6609-B SYS-6767-5 CNE-1028
Upgrade Date: May 2005
Are you on the US site? What happened to June 1?

nelson4u and ssabripo
Some of the August units are fine. Mine is august and has no btb issue.

Yay!! :p

I just registered for my update and in addtion to the serials I had to enter the dealer names and purchase dates for both the player and the A/V.



I tried to register for the DL3 update but even with a proper DVD-3910 and AVC-A1SR with "A"-upgrade combination I was not able to get my upgraded AVC-A1SR acknowledged as such (funny since the upgrade was performed by Denon Germany last fall). Then I called the phone number listed on the site and the only response from the german guy was that I neede to get the upgrade from the local distributor here in Norway. Which means it will take forever, or at least I fear it will. Yikes!


I find it kind of strange that Denon Japan and Denon Germany have the registration programs up and running, while Denon USA so far has no info online.


And why the hell can't they just provide this firmware online for easy downloading...

echnaton
What software version are they sending? I keep getting the same old may download:
Upgrade Version: ESS-6609-B SYS-6767-5 CNE-1028
Upgrade Date: May 2005
Are you on the US site? What happened to June 1?



There are no updates for DL3 or even no info about it at denon usa. Kind of stupid move.

This is email i got today and it does mention dl3.

Dear Denon DVD Owner,



We apologize for the long delay as we are currently backlogged.



Your firmware upgrade has been processed and you should be

receiving it shortly by mail. Some of you may notice on our website

that a newer version of firmware has recently been posted compared

to the one you may have requested. If you are receiving this e-mail,

you do not need to reregister for this latest version as your

previous upgrade request was automatically upgraded to the

latest version due to our delay. The rest of you will receive the

latest version as you have requested. This upgrade does not

include DLIII. This will come in a later upgrade.



Thank you for using the Denon website for your firmware upgrade

needs.



Best Regards,



J. McGuinness

echnaton
What software version are they sending? I keep getting the same old may download:
Upgrade Version: ESS-6609-B SYS-6767-5 CNE-1028
Upgrade Date: May 2005
Are you on the US site? What happened to June 1?

It is going to be shipped on three CDs via regular mail. I don't have it yet, so I don't know what version it will be. On June 1st they posted all the information to the denon.de site (as promised) and launched the online registration forms. I registered and received an email confirmation. Once I have more information, I will post it here. Again, it is not the US site but the German Denon site (www.denon.de)

Cheers!

I want my DL3!

I want my DL3!

Isn't that from a song??? :)

That's what I was thinking about - "I want my MTV".
I am hearing it over and over in my head, but with the "DL3"
What is up with "US" are they running the upgrade past the department of dfence?

Actually they just released "Brothers in Arms" on SACD. Dire Straits never sounded better, and "Money for Nothing" is terrific in a 5-1 mix. This album was great as a CD, now it's even better.

Actually they just released "Brothers in Arms" on SACD. Dire Straits never sounded better, and "Money for Nothing" is terrific in a 5-1 mix. This album was great as a CD, now it's even better.

Allen, you ought to hear the XRCD import version. Only 2 channel but is just nirvana! :cool:

Where did you get your copy? I would like to get it for comparison purposes.

Actually they just released "Brothers in Arms" on SACD. Dire Straits never sounded better, and "Money for Nothing" is terrific in a 5-1 mix. This album was great as a CD, now it's even better.
This is a fantastic sounding disc. The MCh is done very, very nicely with no gimmickery. Everything is so much clearer and detailed. Easily my favorite SACD to date.

jazzcat, the SACD MCh blows away the XRCD version and that's saying a lot because I did not think that BIA could sound any better than the XRCD.

Cheapest place is CDWOW I believe, I think I paid about $18 delivered,

http://www1.cd-wow.com/detail_results.php?product_code=17932
CD WOW! - Welcome to CD WOW!

Just placed an order with amusicdirect for the SACD. Can't wait to hear it! Need to bookmark CDWOW because I just paid twice that :(

I use Acoustic Sounds http://acousticsounds.com , but I too will look at cdwow.

Allen

I want my DL3!

Well, my hopes of getting this upgrade on june 1st has vanished.

The waiting game continues. :eek:




Espen

DVD-3910 receives a 3 CD upgrade kit for firmware update only. This includes a how-to sheet so owners can do the update on their own, no hardware doodling required.

A11 and A1XV(aka DVD-5910) require a firmware update as well as an update to the programming of a logic chip onboard that has to be done by Denon. Depending on which of the two models you own and sales region you're in, you'll have to take the device to your dealer or arrange for pickup for the upgrade.

Spero D.

Well after three weeks of waiting I finally received my 3910. I can describe in a word; Awesome!!!

I couldn't be happier, picture quality is a definate improvement over my previous units. I also purchased the unit strictly for its picture quality and I'm totally satisfied.

echnaton
What software version are they sending? I keep getting the same old may download:
Upgrade Version: ESS-6609-B SYS-6767-5 CNE-1028
Upgrade Date: May 2005
Are you on the US site? What happened to June 1?

nelson4u and ssabripo
Some of the August units are fine. Mine is august and has no btb issue.


mine didnt' and it was an august build :(

"Actually they just released "Brothers in Arms" on SACD"
Yes, pretty ironic eh? Now I don't know which version to order. After waiting all this time I'm still too paranoid to get the SACD.
Maybe if I ordered the sacd now I could have DL3 by the time it arrived? Better I pick UPS ground?

ssabripo
Sorry to hear it, something bad happened in August, I presume.

Well after three weeks of waiting I finally received my 3910. I can describe in a word; Awesome!!!

I couldn't be happier, picture quality is a definate improvement over my previous units. I also purchased the unit strictly for its picture quality and I'm totally satisfied.

Welcome to the club. Glad you're happy with it. What display unit do you have it hooked up to?

ssabripo
Sorry to hear it, something bad happened in August, I presume.

you don't know about the BTB (Blacker Than Black, or PLUGE) issue in 3910s built between Aug-Oct of '04? :eek:

They dont pass this test, and thus, you have to send them to Denon for an internal firmware upgrade... :( There is a whole thread dedicated to this issue...

How about one of my 3910 brothers pop in the Elton John DVD-A "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" and try to access the bonus tracks (18-21).

A little help here fellas....

Welcome to the club. Glad you're happy with it. What display unit do you have it hooked up to?

I've got it hooked up to 29" Pani CRT, but will change to a DLP/LCD/Plasma in the near future. Not sure which technology will be best suited for me, but I think I'm leaning towards a DLP set. We'll see

How about one of my 3910 brothers pop in the Elton John DVD-A "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" and try to access the bonus tracks (18-21).

A little help here fellas....
Sorry, Tom. I have the 2-disc SACD version and it plays fine. But I know, that's not what you asked :(

I've got it hooked up to 29" Pani CRT, but will change to a DLP/LCD/Plasma in the near future. Not sure which technology will be best suited for me, but I think I'm leaning towards a DLP set. We'll see

If you have the time read through the tread. There are a couple of post from folks having compatibility problems with the 3910 and their particular display. The F*chip in the 3910 doesn't match up well with some Pannys.

greetings a/v-philes, - my first post in this excellent forum . . .
I decided to go 3805/3910 before I stumbled in here, and this resource has only reaffirmed my decision.
I didn't find any mention of the "exotic modifications" for the 3910 that are offered at Reference Audio Mods ( referenceaudiomods.c0m, - I can't post a URL yet )
i.e: Coupling Transformer Stage Replacements, Superclock 3 upgrades, Switch Mode Supply Upgrades, etc, etc.
Anyone have any knowledge/experience/thoughts on this outfit and what they offer? (or is there an earlier discussion?)
Thanks in advance!

thrstr1,
Welcome to AVS!

I don't know anything about RAM, but, I just got a 3910 modded by Dan Wright at Modwright. Although I have had it for only a few weeks and it is still under the initial 100 hours of use, so far I like what I hear.

Here's a site for more info on this mod: Modwright 3910 Mod Thread (http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?t=18116)

interesting Merc,
thanks for the reply. If you don't mind my asking, what exactly did Dan do for your unit, (besides provide some neat looking vents)?

interesting Merc,
thanks for the reply. If you don't mind my asking, what exactly did Dan do for your unit, (besides provide some neat looking vents)?

thrstr1,

How much do you want to spend? How resolving are your speakers? These mods will probably be subtle, as the 3910 is already a very good sounding source.

Merc's tube mod probably cost around $2500.

RAM mods are very pricey too, and lots of the stuff they push seem snake-oil-ish to me.

Try SACDmods.com or Vinnie at Redwineaudio.com

Audioholics also reviewed a modded 3910 by underwoodhifi/partsconnexion:
http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/denondvd3910modp1.php, they found the differences to be subtle.

These three alternative suggestions I mention will probably cost you in the $700-1200 range.

I have been looking into the same for my 3910, and price vs. performance does not justify spending more than $1000 (for me).


Cheers
DigiPete

thrstr1,
How much do you want to spend? How resolving are your speakers?

Welcome to AVS and I ditto what DigiPete says.

No point in putting a Ferrari engine in a Yugo. What type of speakers do you have? The 3805 is a very nice receiver and an un-modded 3910 sounds very good. How much 2 channel audio do you listen to vs. DVD viewing? If your primary reason for getting the 3910 was for audio than definitely continue your research on mods but if you watch significantly more DVDs than listening to audio than spend your mod money else where.

good questions in your replies, thanks.
I should have specified my audio/video preference, and the answer is:
I want it all! :o . (I guess you could say the audio matters here).

I'm in the midst of an overall upgrade, not sure if it's considered a Yugo or what, (the 3805 & 3910, klipsch RS35 effects, RC7 center & RSW12 sub, & a new plasma). The dinosaurs are my mains, Snell type C IVs, they still sound pretty good after 12 years (though perhaps not tremendously "resolving"). I'll replace them down the road after everything else is in place.

I like the cafeteria approach to the upgrades at RAM, and the fellow at the other end has been very patient and informative. He has pointed out that the mods are primarily audio related, but some of the mods (power supply and Superclock 3) improve video performance also.

Thanks to DigiPete for providing some more options, I missed SACDmods.c0m and Redwineaudio.c0m in my googling. I agree that much of this seems a bit snake-oilish, and the price/performance ratio can be a bit questionable too, (btw, how much did you spend on speaker wires/cabling?)

Looks like I still have some research to do. Thanks!

With a player like the 3910 which has such good audio right out of the box, you are immediately into the area of diminishing returns with regard to mods. If I was not considering a Tubed Mod for the unit, I wouldn't have gotten it modded at all... although I do like the work that Chris Johnson did with a Jolida Tubed CD player I used to own. I have also heard that the APL mod is very good too.... but costs alot of money and is also NOT a tubed mod.

Probably, if not for the tubed mod from modwright, I'd have kept the Onkyo SP1000 which I thought sounded slightly better than the 3910 for redbook CD playback. ;)

Also... I should mention that my mod was a make-good from a previous project otherwise I couldn't have afforded it. After hearing the unit, I realize how lucky I am... :D

interesting Merc,
thanks for the reply. If you don't mind my asking, what exactly did Dan do for your unit, (besides provide some neat looking vents)?

To be more specific, Dan did the following (similar to the Platinum tube mod he did for my 999ES...byproduct was it improved the video too):

Mod Details:

1) Upgrades to stock power supply including FRED rectifiers and improved DC filtering.
2) Upgrades to digital power supply decoupling around DACs.
3) Removal of all 2CH op-amps and stock coupling caps.
4) Installation of our own Class A tube analog stage, featuring passive I-V conversion, direct coupled input, fixed bias and cap coupled outputs, using Sonicap capacitors. (Circuit uses (2) 5687 tubes - NOS Tung Sols).
5) External supply - PS 9.0 standard.
6) Revelation Auido Labs Reference Cryo-Silver umbilical standard.
7) LC Audio XO3 master clock installed

In short, a completely replaced tube analog section, all new hi-end caps, separate power supply w/ umbilical and new clock. The results on my 999ES are astounding....anything but subtle (and although Dan likes the sound of the stock 3910 more than the stock 999ES he says the improvement is equivalent improvement...shoudln't be subtle at all. It's now his SOA piece). But one should expect great results from Dan...oh and for $2500. :p

It needs 200 hrs, though, and then it blossoms...wierd. Even other hi-end mfg'ers like the C-J folks agree that something about the Blackgates, etc. require that kind of break-in, but after the magic number of 200...voila.

Ted

Also... I should mention that my mod was a make-good from a previous project otherwise I couldn't have afforded it. After hearing the unit, I realize how lucky I am... :D

This time, I will not ask . . .

:D

Does anyone knwo what's going on with the Denon website?

It keeps asking me for a userid and password.

www.denon.com

Does anyone knwo what's going on with the Denon website?

It keeps asking me for a userid and password.

www.denon.com

I'm getting the same thing. Very strange. :confused:

I'm getting the same thing. Very strange. :confused:

Its back up. No new firmware updates :(

Its back up. No new firmware updates :(


Thanks - it works for me too.

Hi, everyone! I started a thread about the issues I'm experiencing with my new 3910, but now I know I should have just posted here. I apologize for the extra, wasted thread. I have a unit that was manufactured in Oct. '04 and doesn't pass BTB, so I'm exchanging it. However, I'm also having problems with DVD-Audio discs. I've tried five discs. Two work perfectly, but three are problematic for the player.

My Porcupine Tree "In Absentia" disc works perfectly, however Porcupine Tree's "Deadwing" DVD-Audio disc doesn't load on first try. I have to eject it and then reinsert it. After that, it works perfectly.

My Nine Inch Nails "Downward Spiral" Dual Disc works fine, but the NIN "With Teeth" Dual Disc doesn't. I insert it, and the player quits outputting a video signal. This makes navigating menus difficult, to say the least. The audio plays fine, but I get no video output. The TV just switches to displaying what input it's on, as if it's receiving no signal. To get the player to begin outputting video again, I have to eject the disc, and then put some other video disc in. My new Metallica DVD-A does the same thing.

One other thing I've noticed on regular DVD's: While watching King Arthur (no jokes...friends wanted to see it), the video cut out for a couple of seconds, and the TV displayed the video input screen (i.e. - black screen with "Video 7" in white), just as it does with the problematic DVD-A's. The player completely quit outputting video.

This is all very strange to me. I had no such problems on my Pioneer 578a or a whole slew of Sony players. Have you guys tried any of these discs with your players? Should I chalk all of this up to having a defective unit, or have you guys experienced similar things with your players? Should I get my hopes up and expect my replacement unit to work with DVD-A's? Please help me out here. I've just dropped $1500 on a DVD player that, while working properly, performs beautifully, but so far...it rarely works properly. Please give me some advice/warning/assurance...whatever you've got. Thanks for reading all this and for any input.

Rob

...And holy crap...Beck's "Sea Change" DVD-A does the same thing (won't output video). Wtf?

Update: Everclear's "So Much For the Afterglow" also does the same damn thing. So...three out of seven DVD-A's will actually display video. I have to belive that I just received a defective unit, or else you guys wouldn't praise this thing so.

...And holy crap...Beck's "Sea Change" DVD-A does the same thing (won't output video). Wtf?

Update: Everclear's "So Much For the Afterglow" also does the same damn thing. So...three out of seven DVD-A's will actually display video. I have to belive that I just received a defective unit, or else you guys wouldn't praise this thing so.

Yes I think yours is defective, good thing you are sending it in for the BTB, now you can kill two birds with one stone.

DigiPete

Did you upgrade the firmware? There were video issues with DVD-A with at least 1 version of FW.

Did you upgrade the firmware? There were video issues with DVD-A with at least 1 version of FW.

Yes good point!! Make sure you have the latest firmware installed before you throw in the towel on your player.

How about one of my 3910 brothers pop in the Elton John DVD-A "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" and try to access the bonus tracks (18-21).

A little help here fellas....

I've got this disc at home. I'll give it a try this evening after work.


Ken

Berkerg........And holy crap...Beck's "Sea Change" DVD-A does the same thing (won't output video). Wtf?

Try setting the PLAYER MODE to VIDEO (instead of default AUDIO) from the "OTHER SETUP" of main setup menu.

Try setting the PLAYER MODE to VIDEO (instead of default AUDIO) from the "OTHER SETUP" of main setup menu.


Not if his intent is to play DVD-Audio discs.

Ted

Not if his intent is to play DVD-Audio discs.

Ted

If his intent it to play hi-res audio, video - other than rudimentary graphics or stills - is not available . . .

Did you upgrade the firmware? There were video issues with DVD-A with at least 1 version of FW.
I just found a post about this last night. I haven't actually updated my FW, because I have a Mac. Of course...can't do it with a Mac. However, the firmware update won't affect the BTB issue, will it?

Try setting the PLAYER MODE to VIDEO (instead of default AUDIO) from the "OTHER SETUP" of main setup menu.
It works when I set the player mode to video, but I can only play the lossy DD/DTS tracks...not the DVD-A tracks.

I'll see if I can't get the FW updated (gotta get my hands on a PC). Thanks for all your help, everyone!

I just found a post about this last night. I haven't actually updated my FW, because I have a Mac. Of course...can't do it with a Mac. However, the firmware update won't affect the BTB issue, will it?


It works when I set the player mode to video, but I can only play the lossy DD/DTS tracks...not the DVD-A tracks.

I'll see if I can't get the FW updated (gotta get my hands on a PC). Thanks for all your help, everyone!

You don't need a PC. As long as you can burn a CD, you should be able to do the firmware update.

You don't need a PC. As long as you can burn a CD, you should be able to do the firmware update.
Oh...I didn't actually try, because the Denon site said it couldn't be done on a Mac. I just checked, and I still can't, unless I get some new burning program. With my current software, I can't burn ISO9660. I'll try to locate a different burning application. Should this FW update affect the BTB issue? Thanks for your help!

Rob

Or you can just order the latest firmware on a CD supplied by Denon - I've done this 3 times now.

Oh...I didn't actually try, because the Denon site said it couldn't be done on a Mac. I just checked, and I still can't, unless I get some new burning program. With my current software, I can't burn ISO9660. I'll try to locate a different burning application. Should this FW update affect the BTB issue? Thanks for your help!

Rob

Sorry, I did not know the Macs were limited that way. May be a friend can download it and burn it for you?

As far as I know the BTB issue cannot be fixed except by returning it to Denon.

Cheers
DigiPete

O DL3! DL3! Where art thou?

I've got this disc at home. I'll give it a try this evening after work.


Ken

It looks like there is some kind of flaw in the menu structure of Elton John's Goodbye Yellow Brick Road DVD-Audio disc. Selecting the "Bonus Tracks" option takes me back to the Main Menu. My computer is capable of playing DVD-Audio so I'll check to see if it works any differently there tonight if I have time.

Ken

If his intent it to play hi-res audio, video - other than rudimentary graphics or stills - is not available . . .

That's the point...he doesn't get ANY graphics (aka video), just a blank screen. It's his fw, not his setting of video, that's an issue here. One needs to be able to play hi-rez layers AND get some kind of video (as described earlier in this thread...i.e pick menus, lyric and/or front cover graphics, etc.).

Ted

That's the point...he doesn't get ANY graphics (aka video), just a blank screen. It's his fw, not his setting of video, that's an issue here. One needs to be able to play hi-rez layers AND get some kind of video (as described earlier in this thread...i.e pick menus, lyric and/or front cover graphics, etc.).

Ted

Doh! Oh well, my mother was a bozo-ette in school.

Doh! Oh well, my mother was a bozo-ette in school.

:D Shoes For Industry, compadre :D

:D Shoes For Industry, compadre :D

Right, just off the Antelope Freeway!

DigiPete
"O DL3! DL3! Where art thou?"
I'll bet Denons USA webmaster is on vacation.
Like pavlov's dog, I still check every day...

...I still check every day...
Every day??? You are a patient man...I find myself checking at least 3 or 4 times a day! I think it's called addiction! :D

Hopefully it'll show up soon! We're all pretty eager here...

Jason

Every day??? You are a patient man...I find myself checking at least 3 or 4 times a day! I think it's called addiction! :D

I guess it helps not to use DL in the first place. :)

Jason,
I did that for a few days, but like pavlovs dog, I am slowing down, soon to forget about sacd's and dl3, and continue buying only dvda and xrcd's?

I guess it helps not to use DL in the first place. :)
But all the cool kids will be doing it...:D

Jason

But all the cool kids will be doing it...:D

Jason

I wish I could join the cool club but I have an "old" Onkyo SR800 that hasn't fully depreciated. :(

It looks like there is some kind of flaw in the menu structure of Elton John's Goodbye Yellow Brick Road DVD-Audio disc. Selecting the "Bonus Tracks" option takes me back to the Main Menu. My computer is capable of playing DVD-Audio so I'll check to see if it works any differently there tonight if I have time.

KenThanks Ken, I can get to them on other players in DD but thats not the fix I was looking for.

How about one of my 3910 brothers pop in the Elton John DVD-A "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" and try to access the bonus tracks (18-21).

A little help here fellas....

My 3910 & Elton John DVD-A "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" does the same thing, it will not play the bonus tracks, my sony dvd es9000 plays the bonus tracks fine but it's DD, i have updated the 3910 with the new May update from denon.... :(

Come on Denon get a fix for this :rolleyes:

Thanks Ken, I can get to them on other players in DD but thats not the fix I was looking for.

I didn't get a chance to check this on my computer last night. Maybe this evening.

I wish I could join the cool club but I have an "old" Onkyo SR800 that hasn't fully depreciated. :(
Well you better sell it while it's still worth something! :D

Jason

mattbugz
throw it in the bedroom!
A nice bedroom system can be very helpful, especially to married men...
"Oh yeah baby! that bottom end rocks! yeah! that's tight! oh yeah! that's it! (ok, no more, this will probably get cut anyway - thank you kind moderator).

DL3
I didn't check at all today. Tempted to put voodoo spell on denon name.

DL3
I didn't check at all today. Tempted to put voodoo spell on denon name.
Don't worry, I checked several times...nada, zip, zero, zilch. Pathetic...my impatience is. Like Yoda...I find myself speaking.

Jason

mattbugz
throw it in the bedroom!
A nice bedroom system can be very helpful, especially to married men...
"Oh yeah baby! that bottom end rocks! yeah! that's tight! oh yeah! that's it! (ok, no more, this will probably get cut anyway - thank you kind moderator).

Haha...uhh, I don't think that would work out well. :)

Seriously though, I already have my obsoleted receiver in the bedroom that the wife won't allow me to set up with 5.1. Sheesh...

Haha...uhh, I don't think that would work out well. :)

Seriously though, I already have my obsoleted receiver in the bedroom that the wife won't allow me to set up with 5.1. Sheesh...


take a look at the yamaha ysp-1; that thing coupled with a small, 8" sub, sounds remarkable in a bedroom.

Don't worry, I checked several times...nada, zip, zero, zilch. Pathetic...my impatience is. Like Yoda...I find myself speaking.

Jason


Anybody feel like calling Denon to get an update on DL3?

Anybody feel like calling Denon to get an update on DL3?


:D

I got a big "still working on it" answer :(

OOOHH NOOOO.....I've received a nice jewel case today from Denon Germany with the DL3 upgrade instructions...but the actual CDs are missing from it...THEY HAVE SENT ME AN EMPTY UPGRADE KIT!!! :eek:

I guess I have to call them.

Oh and by the way: The instructions say that you have to initialize the player BEFORE and AFTER the upgrade....

:D

I got a big "still working on it" answer :(
Yeah, they're pretty mysterious over there...and vague, too...

If it doesn't make it's way out this month, I'm gonna go apeshit on someone...just kidding. :D No I'm not...:mad:

Jason

Oh and by the way: The instructions say that you have to initialize the player BEFORE and AFTER the upgrade....
Don't get ssabripo started with his 700-pt fonts! :D:D:D

Jason

OOOHH NOOOO.....I've received a nice jewel case today from Denon Germany with the DL3 upgrade instructions...but the actual CDs are missing from it...THEY HAVE SENT ME AN EMPTY UPGRADE KIT!!! :eek:

I guess I have to call them.

if that is true, that has got to be one of the funniest things i've heard in a while...i might even believe it was done purposely if i knew denon germany had a sense of humor :)

Don't get ssabripo started with his 700-pt fonts! :D:D:D

Jason

http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/kekekegay.gif

I guess some people never learn ;) Perhaps they enjoy going thru all the menus and re-typing their settings...hehe

Yeah, they're pretty mysterious over there...and vague, too...

If it doesn't make it's way out this month, I'm gonna go apeshit on someone...just kidding. :D No I'm not...:mad:

Jason

not vague at all. I received the kit...with printed instructions and a letter on Denon letter head. It's just that the CDs are missing from it. Must be a mistake on their part.

Attached is a photo.

if that is true, that has got to be one of the funniest things i've heard in a while...i might even believe it was done purposely if i knew denon germany had a sense of humor :)

...or some really screwed up sense of humor :(

...or some really screwed up sense of humor :(

indeed!!! http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/ugh2.gif

I've opened the case about 25 times now just to make sure that I didn't miss anything...like a hidden lid or something. But no, still no CDs.

I am going to cry a little now.... :(

I've opened the case about 25 times now just to make sure that I didn't miss anything...like a hidden lid or something. But no, still no CDs.

I am going to cry a little now.... :(
Maybe it works like one of these things, only you just put the empty jewel case on top of the player and it does the upgrade.... :p :D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/Intellchip.jpg
http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina27.htm
Golden Sound Intelligent Chip CD/DVD/SACD Upgrade

echnaton
Gee thanks, now just looking at this picture is making me get all friendly with myself...
picture (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=38408)

...or some really screwed up sense of humor :(

Now that is getting kicked while your down.

That has got to hurt :( :eek:

In the flight test business, we only fear one thing: THE SOFTWARE!!!

Seriously, software is the manufacturer's nightmare. Its never right, and its never done!!

I bet they are working it right now, trying to fix all sorts of bugs they have discovered in their qualification testing before they release it. Its never as easy as you think its going to be.

DigiPete

I would have thought that Denon was anticipating this for months, if not years, and would have known exactly how to make it work. Guess not...

I would have thought that Denon was anticipating this for months, if not years, and would have known exactly how to make it work. Guess not...
They have, DL3 has been functional for over a year, all they needed was the okay to implement it...curious..

What I meant is that having anticipated the approval for months you would think that Denon would have had the software files written and tested, and would have been pretty much ready to release the upgrade to their customers without much delay, following formal approval. There must be some kind of a glitch, or maybe they're just not in any big hurry.

What I meant is that having anticipated the approval for months you would think that Denon would have had the software files written and tested, and would have been pretty much ready to release the upgrade to their customers without much delay, following formal approval. There must be some kind of a glitch, or maybe they're just not in any big hurry.
Yes, that's what I'm saying, I talked to people at Denon, New Jersey around a year ago and they already had DL3 ready to go, functional and working on test gear in their office. Why there is a holdup, who knows, but I don't think it has anything to do with the software itself. :)

Maybe it works like one of these things, only you just put the empty jewel case on top of the player and it does the upgrade.... :p :D

HAHA...ya know...for a moment I was tempted to try it :D

So okay, Denon says that they sent out empty jewel cases due to "an oversight". Thank you very much! :rolleyes:

They promised to send a new one right away. Trouble is, I have to go on a business trip on Monday...will be in New York for a short while :) But won't have my DL3 until I am back :(

echnaton
Gee thanks, now just looking at this picture is making me get all friendly with myself...
Yeah...just check out the inside, too :rolleyes:

am I missing something here? is DL3 available right now? I thought the firmware is not ready yet.... :confused:

Yeah...just check out the inside, too :rolleyes:


Can you give us a brief description of the upgrade procedure per the included instructions? One disc?

am I missing something here? is DL3 available right now? I thought the firmware is not ready yet.... :confused:

Available in Germany since June 1.

Yes, that's what I'm saying, I talked to people at Denon, New Jersey around a year ago and they already had DL3 ready to go, functional and working on test gear in their office. Why there is a holdup, who knows, but I don't think it has anything to do with the software itself. :)

In the software/hardware world, just because you can get something to work (ie DL3) in the lab, does not necessarily mean it will work in real life (with all possible combinations of discs and settings etc etc). And since one year ago, they have changed the software 10 times. Many times changes will affect other areas of the software that you did not anticipate. Thats why until you run a full battery of qual tests(and this costs money!) you don't know if your software will work correctly. And even if you pass the qual tests, when it gets out into the field, things will pop up you (the manufacturer) never anticipated, like poorly/improperly mastered discs, etc, etc.
So the updates become a necessity.

In the software/hardware world, just because you can get something to work (ie DL3) in the lab, does not necessarily mean it will work in real life (with all possible combinations of discs and settings etc etc). And since one year ago, they have changed the software 10 times. Many times changes will affect other areas of the software that you did not anticipate. Thats why until you run a full battery of qual tests(and this costs money!) you don't know if your software will work correctly. And even if you pass the qual tests, when it gets out into the field, things will pop up you (the manufacturer) never anticipated, like poorly/improperly mastered discs, etc, etc.
So the updates become a necessity.
Yes, when I said test gear I meant off the shelf 5900's, and I notice from echnaton's picture's that it indicates the firmware he was supposed to get is specific for the 3910. So yes, considering the amount of firmware upgrades the 3910 has gone through, it would stand to reason that they may be having problems with the DL3 implementation for the 3910.

Maybe Germany and some others are getting DL3 first (involuntary beta testers) before they risk releasing it to the US(huge market) where everybody can get the software online. They might be waiting to see how it goes on the small scale before going global, in order to reduce the number of bugs and the customer service issues once the release is made.

Hell, sign me up and call me a guinea pig! :)

Jason

I still say the webmaster is on vacation.
The conspiracy theorist in me also likes the "use germany for beta testing" theory.

I lied. I am buying no DVD-A's or xrcds. I am waiting....
I have not checked the Denon site in three days and might be losing it.
I am craving mint chocolate chip ice cream....
People look at me and whisper to each other...

Good to know all of you guys are out there keeping watch. Reminds me a little of a child waiting for his fee gift from Kelloggs checking the mail each day.

I just hope that the DL3 upgrade dosen't turn out like those "free" toys.

roxanne1
There is no reason to think it should turn out that way.
Most of my hi-rez audio is sacd. I need it for the auto eq. Maybe you don't?

I, like most here, am eagerly anticipating DL3 to connect to my 3805. I'm sitting here thinking, though, isn't the 5.1 channel out the best way to go? It's my understanding that the 3910 has better DAC's than the 3805. Is there a noticeable difference in using the 3805's DAC's? Which is the better connection? I'm sorry if this has already been addressed in this MASSIVE thread. It's just a lot to weed through, you know?

The DAC's and associated circuitry are superior on the 3910 (compared to the 3805) but you lose the ability to apply room correction to the material. Depending on your room and it's acoustics, you might get better overall sound using the 3805 with it's room correction applied, vs using the 3910 and going source direct, or using the 3910's more limited room correction features (basically just distance and level).

If you have a really good room, with all the speakers placed optimally, then using the 3910 in source direct mode via analog outs would be the way to go. Most people do not have very good room acoustics or speaker placement for a variety of reasons, so this ideal case isn't very common.

True, true...I for one definitely benefit from the room correction/auto-eq of the 3805, so DL3 will be huge for me. And although the DAC's in the 3910 are superior to those in the 3805, I don't think that many of us would actually be able to tell the difference, and if there were a noticeable difference, for many of us it wouldn't be as significant as being able to use those key 3805 features.

Jason

Since I upgraded to the new firmware, ESS 6609-B, I've noticed a significant increase in freezes during playback. Sometimes the display pauses but the time keeps increasing and then the video resumes. Sometimes it freezes completely for a period of time, and sometimes the screen blanks and it starts advancing through the chapters until it gets to the end of the disk.

Is anyone else experiencing anything like this?

Since I upgraded to the new firmware, ESS 6609-B, I've noticed a significant increase in freezes during playback. Sometimes the display pauses but the time keeps increasing and then the video resumes. Sometimes it freezes completely for a period of time, and sometimes the screen blanks and it starts advancing through the chapters until it gets to the end of the disk.

Is anyone else experiencing anything like this?

I haven't done the upgrade yet. Did you re-inititialize after applying the upgrades? If not, try that.

Yep. Installed. Checked version numbers. Initialized. Just like in the instructions. Everything perfect.

I'd like to downgrade to an older version, but since the 6609-B is a three disk upgrade, that route doesn't seem to be open to me....

Yep. Installed. Checked version numbers. Initialized. Just like in the instructions. Everything perfect.

I'd like to downgrade to an older version, but since the 6609-B is a three disk upgrade, that route doesn't seem to be open to me....

Even if you did get a previous version, I'm pretty sure you could only "undo" two things; the previous version was two discs and 9B is three. Still, if you want to try it, I have 8 and 9A floating around here somewhere.

I would definitely NOT recommend going back from version -B. Reinstalling version -A or version -9 would reinstall backlevel versions of some firmware modules while the firmware module updated by the 3rd CD in version -B would stay updated and might have some incompatibilities with the other 2.

Paul.

Yeah, I agree. Gotta say the way it works now sucks, though.

3910 Owners......... What display do you have??? Brand/Model???

3910 Owners......... What display do you have??? Brand/Model???
I have a Sony 34XS955. Anyone else have this display? Have you noticed any MB? I'm worried that I'm seeing it, but it's very likely that I'm imagining it. I'm very paranoid.

3910 Owners......... What display do you have??? Brand/Model???


I have the LG RU44SZ61D, running at 720P,great picture, no rainbows, no macro blocking. I have had this display for 9 months and in combo with the 3910 it produces HD quality DVD viewing. This will spoil you and make watching SD television painful.

3910 Owners......... What display do you have??? Brand/Model???

Sony 34XBR960. Great picture, no problems.

3910 Owners......... What display do you have??? Brand/Model???

Sony 70XBR950 - no MB, great picture.

Tested on Panasonic AE700 and Infocus X1. Macro Blocking on both.
Tested on Action Model One mkII, perfect picture.

I have the Toshiba 52HM84 DLP, running it off the 3910 using HDMI 1080i.

Works great no macrobloking that I can see.

Hi everyone, thanks for all the fun and support, I'll be movin' on to a different thread. I've enjoyed my 3910 but decided to sell it for the Marantz DVD 9500 in the hope of getting an even mo' better machine. It was an offer I couldn't refuse ;)

Since I upgraded to the new firmware, ESS 6609-B, I've noticed a significant increase in freezes during playback. Sometimes the display pauses but the time keeps increasing and then the video resumes. Sometimes it freezes completely for a period of time, and sometimes the screen blanks and it starts advancing through the chapters until it gets to the end of the disk.

Is anyone else experiencing anything like this?

Have you tried complaining to Denon about this?

3910 Owners......... What display do you have??? Brand/Model???
Sony HS10 via DVI with excellent results. I'm still on the hunt for a new TV, maybe one of the new Mits 1080 DLPs that are supposed to arrive in August/September.

Jason

3910 Owners......... What display do you have??? Brand/Model???

Marantz VP-12S2 with 106" screen; Great picture, no MB

I have been following this thread for a long time but this is my first post in here.

I was wondering about one thing: How do you people listen to regular CD? Who's using Denon Link for that and who's not?

I currently own a 3805-3910 "combo" and for now I seem to prefer listening to CDs using the analog R-L interconnects and the pure direct mode.

I know this is user and setup dependant but I was curious about other people's preferences. Maybe some use setup's I haven't tried yet? Any (many?) ideas or suggestions?

Thanks for your time! :)

3910 Owners......... What display do you have??? Brand/Model???

Sony VPL-HS20 with an IMX lens shooting on a 92" wide 16:9 Stewart Firehawk w/THX microperf. And it looks awesome! Even more so since I added some of Richard Grey's little black boxes.

3910 Owners......... What display do you have??? Brand/Model???

Sony Qualia 006...looks great. Currently trying to determine whether I prefer Auto 1 or Auto 2 mode...Audioholics recommended Autio 1 whereas Secrets recommended Auto 2...

3910 Owners......... What display do you have??? Brand/Model???


Sammy 50" DLP HLM507W. Was ISF'ed. Very happy with the 3910/Sammy combo.

:D Can you give us a brief description of the upgrade procedure per the included instructions? One disc?

Supposedly it's three disks. First disk for "Back End", second disk for "System" and the third one for IEEE1394. In short the procedure is described in the instructions as follows:

1. initialize the player
2. put in disk 1 (one minute to flash)
3. turn player off and on
4. put in disk 2 (45 secs to flash)
5. turn player off and on
6. put in disk 3 (3 mins to flash)
7. turn player off and on
8. initialize the player

Again, this is based on the official instructions. I know there is some disagreement about initializing the player :D

3910 Owners......... What display do you have??? Brand/Model???


Greetings,

Sony VPL-HS51 connected to my 3910 via HDMI.


Regards,

Samsung HLN567W (great match with the 3910, over DVI)

Sony KDF-55XS955 via HDMI (1080i, Y Cb Cr, auto2).... I've seen MB slightly on only 2 movies thus far (out of well near 100).. ;)

3910 Owners......... What display do you have??? Brand/Model???

Sony HS51 on a Stewart StudioTek 130 at 92" 16x9. HDMI direct to the projector at 720p. :D

Sanyo PLV-Z2 on a 92" widescreen stewart grayhawk. DVI from the 3910 to the Z2. I switch between 720p and 1080i and never saw a problem with MB. I've taken my 3910 to work to hook it up to multiple displays. I've hooked it up to fujitsu screens(42", 50", 55", 63"), panasonic screens(42", 50"), and to the sim2 HT500-ELink 3 chip DLP projector. I haven't seen any signs of MB on any of the displays.

Sony 70XBR950 - no MB, great picture.

Same here.

Loewe Articos 55. DVI 720p attached. Excellent Pic. No MB.

3910 Owners......... What display do you have??? Brand/Model???

Qualia 006 :)

Sony Qualia 006...looks great. Currently trying to determine whether I prefer Auto 1 or Auto 2 mode...Audioholics recommended Autio 1 whereas Secrets recommended Auto 2...

Actually I recommend Auto 1 unless you know you are watching 2-2 material, then Auto 2.

Is anyone having trouble setting the stop/pause screen to Black?
For some reason- after the most recent upgrade- The settings will not let me change it.
I had it set before, but now the Black option is greyed out.
I'm stuck with Blue Screen whenever I stop a disc.

Actually I recommend Auto 1 unless you know you are watching 2-2 material, then Auto 2.

Thanks for the clarification Kris...I guess what I was referring to was the statement, "The DVD-3910 had the highest score to date on the shootout with a 93 percent in Auto 2 mode."

That was a statement in Paul Taatjes' piece.

I'll have to give both a second read as I read them quite some time before getting my 3910.

Downgrade from latest FW

Has anyone actually tried downgrading from the latest firmware versions requiring 2 or 3 disks to a older version requiring only 1 disk? I am currently holding off from sending my 3910 to Denon for the BTB fix, since I am afraid that Denon will also upgrade the FW to the latest version which would mean I would lose multi region ability.

Thanks,
Mike

"I am currently holding off from sending my 3910 to Denon for the BTB fix"


I still think Denon should be sued for this. Why should we have to pay anything to have the BTB problem fixed.

Downgrade from latest FW

Has anyone actually tried downgrading from the latest firmware versions requiring 2 or 3 disks to a older version requiring only 1 disk? I am currently holding off from sending my 3910 to Denon for the BTB fix, since I am afraid that Denon will also upgrade the FW to the latest version which would mean I would lose multi region ability.

Thanks,
Mike

I'm not an MR kind of guy, but from what I've observed, there's always a MR version soon available after the official version. A FW upgrade may be necessary to effect the BTB fix, too. Also, the general consensus is that you do NOT want to regress in FW versions.

Have you tried complaining to Denon about this?

Tried? Yep. All I get is voice mail: "Hello, this is Carol at Denon Technical Support..."

No answer to my voice mail yet. Nor answer to my email.

Anyone know how to get in touch with these folks?

I'm not an MR kind of guy, but from what I've observed, there's always a MR version soon available after the official version. A FW upgrade may be necessary to effect the BTB fix, too. Also, the general consensus is that you do NOT want to regress in FW versions.

I guess I'll keep waiting then, since MR is more important to me than BTB and DL3.

Thanks,
Mike

I guess I'll keep waiting then, since MR is more important to me than BTB and DL3.

Thanks,
Mike
Isn't Germany a region free area anyway? Maybe Denon Germany has a region free version. From what I gather, region coding is primarily a US thing, as many countries around the world simply don't adhere to it. I thought Europe was one of those areas..

Isn't Germany a region free area anyway? Maybe Denon Germany has a region free version. From what I gather, region coding is primarily a US thing, as many countries around the world simply don't adhere to it. I thought Europe was one of those areas..

Unfortunately not. Germany and as far as I know all of Europe are region 2, meaning Denon Germany won't provide region free FW. I think Australia is the only region free country.

I think Australia is the only region free country.
Your right, we have it in legislation that all playback equipment marketed in this country be region free - yippee, no region hacks required here :)

Question for 3910/3805 owners:

How do you listen to stereo music? The 3910 provides amazing audio playback. How do you connect the 3910 to the 3805? Do you run your receiver in Stereo, Direct, Pure Direct, 5/7 Channel Stereo, or something else? I can't seem to make up my mind on the whole 5/7 Channel Stereo thing. What do you think? Does it sound good, or is stereo the way to go?

I'm trying to decide what sounds to me like the best way to experience the 3910's audio performance. While I'm testing it out, I thought I'd see what you guys had decided. Later!

Rob

Unfortunately not. Germany and as far as I know all of Europe are region 2, meaning Denon Germany won't provide region free FW. I think Australia is the only region free country.
Well that sucks, I would contact whomever did the region-free mod on the player and see what they say. I, myself have already contacted JVB Digital about the impending DL3 upgrade and they are going to take a look at the software when they get it to see if it will effect the region-free status on my 5900 and let me know if there is a work-around.

Well that sucks, I would contact whomever did the region-free mod on the player and see what they say. I, myself have already contacted JVB Digital about the impending DL3 upgrade and they are going to take a look at the software when they get it to see if it will effect the region-free status on my 5900 and let me know if there is a work-around.

One work around is to rip yourself a region-free copy of the DVD you want to watch.

Well that sucks, I would contact whomever did the region-free mod on the player and see what they say. I, myself have already contacted JVB Digital about the impending DL3 upgrade and they are going to take a look at the software when they get it to see if it will effect the region-free status on my 5900 and let me know if there is a work-around.

I did the mod myself using the MR-FW available on the net, so no dealer support. I would be interested in hearing about the outcome of your MR-DL3 upgrade.

Thanks

I did the mod myself using the MR-FW available on the net, so no dealer support. I would be interested in hearing about the outcome of your MR-DL3 upgrade.

Thanks
I will post what I find out, but I don't expect to hear anything from JVB until after the DL3 FW is released here in the US.

Question for 3910/3805 owners:

How do you listen to stereo music? The 3910 provides amazing audio playback. How do you connect the 3910 to the 3805? Do you run your receiver in Stereo, Direct, Pure Direct, 5/7 Channel Stereo, or something else? I can't seem to make up my mind on the whole 5/7 Channel Stereo thing. What do you think? Does it sound good, or is stereo the way to go?

I'm trying to decide what sounds to me like the best way to experience the 3910's audio performance. While I'm testing it out, I thought I'd see what you guys had decided. Later!

Rob

I have mine connected with both analog cables and Denon Link. I've found that some CD's benefit from IIx applied, but most if the time I listen using the analog cables in Stereo mode. I haven't used 5/7 hardly at all. And actually since buying the 3805/3910 combo I've listened to more DVD-A's Denon Link/IIx Music) and SACD's (analog - so far) than anything else. It's nice to have the options and decide what sounds best to you in your room.

I like using the 3910's stereo analog outs and 3805's PLII processing for all stereo disks.

The 3910 applies the Alpha-24 up-converting process to red book CDs and lower res DVD-A disks. From what I understand, the 3805 can not do both Alpha-24 and PLII to PCM. Can anyone confirm that?

The DSP modes on the 3805 do not allow it to do Alpha-24 for the most part (DTS Neo, PLII, 5Ch stereo etc). Using the stereo analog outs on the 3910 you are having the 3910 convert the PCM signal to analog, feeding that to the 3805, the 3805 then converts the analog back to digital PCM, does the PLII processing without the benefit of AL24, then does it's own D/A conversion to send the signal out to the amp section. That's a lot of extra A/D and D/A for no good reason, each one having an adverse affect on the material.

It would be preferable to send the signal digitally to the 3805, let it do a single D/A conversion at the end of its sound processing (if you want to use PLII or other DSP modes). You will degrade the material much less, and since you are doing PLII processing anyway inside the 3805 the AL24 processing done by the 3910 is pretty much destroyed anyway.

If you want to use the 3910 to do the D/A, then it makes sense to use the ext in on the 3805 so the signal remains untouched by the 3805. Just do all your level and distance adjustments in the 3910's setup and let it handle all the D/A and analog sound balance chores.

If you prefer it using the method you described perhaps it's a volume setting difference between the digital and analog stereo inputs you are showing a preference for. Be sure to equalize the volume levels when you compare signal paths.

3910 Owners......... What display do you have??? Brand/Model???

Toshiba 57h83 using DVI-D running at 720P, very pleased

Downgrade from latest FW

Has anyone actually tried downgrading from the latest firmware versions requiring 2 or 3 disks to a older version requiring only 1 disk? I am currently holding off from sending my 3910 to Denon for the BTB fix, since I am afraid that Denon will also upgrade the FW to the latest version which would mean I would lose multi region ability.

Thanks,
Mike

I did "downgrade" from the latest R1 FW to MR FW that was posted here some time ago. I even think that MB is less of an issue with MR FW. I do not have BTB issue with my player.

Okay...this is interesting. My girl friend says that the new Upgrade Kit has arrived. This time the CDs are included. Of course I can't try it now until I am back from my business trip....AAAHHHRG. THIS TIMING IS SOOO BAD THAT IT HURTS!! :mad:

But I asked her what versions are printed on the CDs. Here's what she gave me:

Back end (CD1): 6609-B
System (CD2): 6767-5
IEEE1394 (CD3): C 20041028


Soo....DL3 is definitely out in Germany. Although I would have expected new version numbers.... :confused:

If you prefer it using the method you described perhaps it's a volume setting difference between the digital and analog stereo inputs you are showing a preference for. Be sure to equalize the volume levels when you compare signal paths.

Thanks for your input uzun. I understand what your saying but, at least in my system and room, I believe the Alpha-24 processing does more good then the extra A to D and D to A hurts. The music sounds more airy, bass is more dynamic and sounds move around the room effortlessly.

Okay...this is interesting. My girl friend says that the new Upgrade Kit has arrived. This time the CDs are included. Of course I can't try it now until I am back from my business trip....AAAHHHRG. THIS TIMING IS SOOO BAD THAT IT HURTS!! :mad:

But I asked her what versions are printed on the CDs. Here's what she gave me:

Back end (CD1): 6609-B
System (CD2): 6767-5
IEEE1394 (CD3): C 20041028


Soo....DL3 is definitely out in Germany. Although I would have expected new version numbers.... :confused:

That's funny, since those numbers match the current numbers which only provide DL2 to US 3910s :confused:

I did "downgrade" from the latest R1 FW to MR FW that was posted here some time ago. I even think that MB is less of an issue with MR FW. I do not have BTB issue with my player.

Do you know what the firmware version was before you downgraded? I thought the latest version available was 6609-B.

I just hooked up my new Denon DVD-3910 to my JVC 720p D-ILA through HDMI and picture
looks great ( just replaced my Denon DVD-3800 ). For some reason I am not getting
any sound. All I did was replace my digital coax that connnects to my Denon AVR-4802.
Tried all the trouble shooting suggestions in the manual.

Anyone else run into this? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

You probably have to go into the setup menus in both your AVR and in the 3910 and indicate what type of connection you're using. Hopefully it's something that simple! I believe that if DenonLink is selected in the 3910 (which may be the default), the digital coax output will not work.

Jason

Thanks Jason,

The coax input on my receiver is set up and was used with my old dvd player.

I have the following selected in audio setup:

audio channel multi channel
digital output normal
lpcm off
source direct off
bass enhancer off
compression off
sacd filter 50kHz

There doesn't seem to be any options to turn off or on the denon link.

Thanks Jason,

The coax input on my receiver is set up and was used with my old dvd player.

I have the following selected in audio setup:

audio channel multi channel
digital output normal
lpcm off
source direct off
bass enhancer off
compression off
sacd filter 50kHz

There doesn't seem to be any options to turn off or on the denon link.

That's on another page, try using the left cursor when you first go into setup, there are 6 pages of setup.

Thanks! can't believe I missed that

o.k. on the second setup page I have
denon link OFF

still no sound though :-(

Thanks! can't believe I missed that

o.k. on the second setup page I have
denon link OFF

still no sound though :-(

Denon Link AND IEEE1394 must be off.

thanks Ben - they both are off!


I am getting stero sound on my TV through the HDMI cable but no sound
through my receiver...

thanks Ben - they both are off!


I am getting stero sound on my TV through the HDMI cable but no sound
through my receiver...

try turning the speakers on your tv off and then cycling the power on the player...it probably detects the tv's speakers and maybe disables the digital audio based on that...it would suck if that were the case, but it also sucks that you can't get audio out of the optical/coax while the DL/1394 is active!

Thanks Ben,

I did as you suggested and also reset my Denon AVR-4802 and it now works!

Thanks for your and everyone elese's help - I really appreciate it.

Best regards,

Tony

P.S. I can't wait for my new Samsung 1080p to try out the 1080i upconvesion.

I currently am having the 3910 output 720p to match my JVC 720p set and it
looks noticably better than the 3800 so far but will have to try more DVDs ...

Thanks Ben,

I did as you suggested and also reset my Denon AVR-4802 and it now works!

Thanks for your and everyone elese's help - I really appreciate it.

Best regards,

Tony

P.S. I can't wait for my new Samsung 1080p to try out the 1080i upconvesion.

I currently am having the 3910 output 720p to match my JVC 720p set and it
looks noticably better than the 3800 so far but will have to try more DVDs ...

On some 720p sets they look even better if you send them 1080i, so you might try that too.

DigiPete

What? Why would you want to scale your video signal twice?

guys,

how does the SDI mod on a 3910 compare to say a 59avi in 480i paired with a DVDO+ scaler (for PQ)? I have a friend who just finished a house and is looking for the best possible PQ, but doesn't want to go the Denon 5910 route...

I recommended either a 3910 SDI mod, or a 59avi via 480i to a DVDO..... any help is appreciated..

I would think that the performance would be very close since the DVDO is doing the de-interlacing and the scaling. The 3910 SDI modded is going to cost a bit more than the 59avi and both units have good build quality. If your friend is not in a hurry he or she may want to wait and see what the new DVDO unit due out later in the year will offer. It is supposed to have 10 bit processing and may use a newer de-interlacing chip and offer a few more input capabilities. It may offer performance that will rival what the 5910 provides but the actual date of release and cost are unknown at this time. Even though I own the 3910 I think I would get the 59avi strictly on a cost basis and use that alone and then decide on the processor when more info is available.

What? Why would you want to scale your video signal twice?

on my Toshiba DLP it looks better if I feed it 1080i (HDMI) and the owners manual also states to do so. Go figure

Thanks - that was my reason for outputing 720p rather than
1080i but I now remember the Audioholics review where
only the 1080i HDMI output passed all the tests.

I switched to 1080i and I don't see much of a difference in
detail but somehow the picture looks more "natural".
By natural it doesn't look like it has been upconverted...

Trying to be more precise regarding looking natural - the 720p output
seems to be a little blotchy on my tv - the 1080i looks better ( with no
blotches) than some of the stuff that is suppose to be hi-def broadcast
( most of the Voom channels come to mind ) but certainly not
as good as Discovery HD...

reading through the various pages of this thread it appears that most 3910 users
seem to find the following setting best:

HDMI YCbCr 1080i
normal black level with IRE=0

is this correct? any other must have settings?

I understand Digital Video Essentials is a better way to calibrate - I
am just trying to find some place to start...

reading through the various pages of this thread it appears that most 3910 users
seem to find the following setting best:

HDMI YCbCr 1080i
normal black level with IRE=0

is this correct? any other must have settings?

I understand Digital Video Essentials is a better way to calibrate - I
am just trying to find some place to start...


1. yes, that's the setup a lot of people have (me included)...however, there are many others who use 720p rather than 1080i to avoid another conversion on the display.

2. Both AVIA and DVE are good choices.....AVIA is a little more user friendly, whereas DVE has a few more tests (such as BTB, etc). I actually have both, and found that for quick setups, I use AVIA, but to test BTB levels, or do some more audio calibrations, I use DVE..

tonydeluce
"Tried all the trouble shooting suggestions in the manual."
Um, like what?
Did you assign the coax channels?
<edit> sorry I'm like 1 page behind with this!

Would someone please explain how adjust the IRE?

I can't seem to find the adjustment in the menus...

Would someone please explain how adjust the IRE?

I can't seem to find the adjustment in the menus...


goto the Picture Adjust (remote), then scroll all the way to the right (past the M1-M5) where it says SET....you will see IRE there, and you can select the default 7.5 or 0

Thank you kindly - I appreciate it.

I also just upgraded firmware to ESS-6609-B.

I don't know if its my imagination or not but PQ over HDMI is looking even better :-) WOW!

Thank you kindly - I appreciate it.

I also just upgraded firmware to ESS-6609-B.

I don't know if its my imagination or not but PQ over HDMI is looking even better :-) WOW!

HDMI did improve for me as well :)

You guys are going to force me to upgrade, aren't you? :)

I don't normally subscribe to the "If it ain't broke don't fix it" philosophy, especially not with my computers, but I have been very hesitant to apply this upgrade and risk being the one out of many that has a problem.

[EDIT: OK, I did the upgrade. Burning the CDs and performing the upgrade was very simple and straightforward. Not sure I notice a PQ improvement over HDMI but the 1394 connection seems to behave better with my receiver.

Thanks for the nudge :)]

You guys are going to force me to upgrade, aren't you? :)

I don't normally subscribe to the "If it ain't broke don't fix it" philosophy, especially not with my computers, but I have been very hesitant to apply this upgrade and risk being the one out of many that has a problem.

[EDIT: OK, I did the upgrade. Burning the CDs and performing the upgrade was very simple and straightforward. Not sure I notice a PQ improvement over HDMI but the 1394 connection seems to behave better with my receiver.

Thanks for the nudge :)]

I'm sittin on the three CD's (ESS-6609-B) and considering the problems, see no reason to risk the upgrade. I don't use HDMI or 1394 and can easily live without Riverdance and Raging Bull.

Questions;
Will the DL3 upgrade also include these fixes.
Is it necessary to do all of the upgrades sequentially

FWIW, I just burned and installed the 09-B updates. The process went smooth and everything is working just fine. I'll only upgrade a computer BIOS is a problem develops or I want to use a newer CPU, but unless otherwise instructed by Denon, I will always apply the new firmware. I will probably wait a bit to see if anyone screams about it, but absent any "issues" in it goes. Presently, I do not use HDMI, Firewire, Riverdance or Raging Bull.

I'd recomend following the instructions - #1, #2 and then #3.

The clincher for me to upgrade the firmware was a number of posts
earlier in this thread that said if you had two circles not filled in under
the serial number of the box then it was not passing blacker than black
which was my situation.

I own a JVC 52in. 720p D-ILA and the CR and BL sucks so setting my set
to IRE=7.5 seems to get better results.

I can't wait for my new Samsung 1080p 6168 to display the images
of the DVD-3910!

I'm sittin on the three CD's (ESS-6609-B) and considering the problems, see no reason to risk the upgrade. I don't use HDMI or 1394 and can easily live without Riverdance and Raging Bull.
Questions;
Will the DL3 upgrade also include these fixes.
Is it necessary to do all of the upgrades sequentially

What risk? :confused:

Is it equivalent to driving while talking on a cell phone, or more like not taking an umbrella when the forecast calls for rain? :D

No, you do not have to do the upgrades sequentially, you can skip several, you just can't go backwards. I don't think anyones posted what the DL3 upgrade fixes. If I remember correctly only one person posted they actually rec'd the upgrade but I haven't seen an update yet.

What risk? :confused:

Is it equivalent to driving while talking on a cell phone, or more like not taking an umbrella when the forecast calls for rain? :D

No, you do not have to do the upgrades sequentially, you can skip several, you just can't go backwards. I don't think anyones posted what the DL3 upgrade fixes. If I remember correctly only one person posted they actually rec'd the upgrade but I haven't seen an update yet.

just a thought here - roxanne1 may have been talking about applying the CD's sequentially within the 09-B upgrade.

It's funny...I've been waiting impatiently for the DL3 to arrive instead of doing the most recent upgrade, but this afternoon I downloaded it and tomorrow I'll probably burn it to disc and maybe Monday late afternoon I'll bite the bullet and install in...unless of course Monday is the day that Denon US puts the DL3 upgrade on their site (hope, hope,...). I talked to Jim at Denon on Thursday and he assured me that the upgrade would be available for download here in the states and not require waiting for discs in the mail (which I clearly don't have the patience for!). Interestingly, over at Audioholics, a poster claimed that he had spoken with a Denon tech-support rep and was told that all players qualifying for the DL3 upgrade would have to be physically sent in to a Denon facility (maybe Illinois) to get the update. Wouldn't that be a clusterphuck?!? Obviously it was bogus information since the update is software-based not hardware-based.

BTW, Beck's "Guero" on DVD-Audio is freakin' incredible and I finally received my copy of Dire Straits' "Brothers In Arms" on SACD from Amazon.uk and it is exceptional. Can't wait for DL3!

Jason

It's funny...I've been waiting impatiently for the DL3 ... Can't wait for DL3!

Jason

This 3 week delay really sucks! I would have rather heard nothing from Denon, and then: boom - here it is!

Pete

I would have rather heard nothing from Denon, and then: boom - here it is!
Well, hopefully it'll be available before the end of the month. We've been patient ( :rolleyes: ) this long...

Jason

I've been following this thread since it's enception, and due to financial issues (my DLP costing more then anticipated ^_^) I haven't been able to pull the trigger on a DVD player yet, and I probably won't for a few months more....

I'm hesitant now though, I've been reading all these issues and what not, more firmware updates then I can track.... Is the Denon 3910 still worth the buy? I've got a little Pioneer player I'm borrowing from a friend, but he wants it back soonish - is the 3910 still a good choice? (It'll be paired with a 1080p 61" DLP and my Denon 3805 receiver if that helps).

Also I have the option of HDMI or Component to use with the display, which would you recommend?

- D

I'm hesitant now though, I've been reading all these issues and what not, more firmware updates then I can track.... Is the Denon 3910 still worth the buy? I've got a little Pioneer player I'm borrowing from a friend, but he wants it back soonish - is the 3910 still a good choice? (It'll be paired with a 1080p 61" DLP and my Denon 3805 receiver if that helps).

Also I have the option of HDMI or Component to use with the display, which would you recommend?- D

Looks like we joined the forum at the same time. Something I've learned in the year that I've been reading/lurking very very few people if any post:

I love my component xxx
It has not given me a problem since day 1
It's ten times better than the one it replaced
My system is now complete and I couldn't be happier

It doesn't matter which thread you read. Even the folks in the $20,000+ section are always changing something.

My 3910 has not given me a problem since day 1. It's ten times better than the Sony in a box DVD thing it replaced. My system is not complete but I won't change DVD players for quite some time. For me it was worth the buy, but that is relative. A friend of mine bought a 7 series BMW and thinks I'm crazy for what I spent on a DVD player, go figure.

As for HDMI vs Component, try them both and which ever looks best to your eyes is the one I recommend. :)

The firmware updates are not negative and should be taken as a positive. Denon unlike other manuf makes these when someone brings things to there attention and they fix it to make people happy. so dont take the updates as minuses. I have also had my 3910 since oct i belive and have had zero problems , not one. and since you have the 3805 it is a perfect match. You wil get to use D-link for all sound coming out of your dvd player(once they finaly release the sacd update).THis still is a great player. I would use HDMI if i were you. It has 10 bit digital while dvi is only 8 bit.

The firmware updates are not negative and should be taken as a positive. Denon unlike other manuf makes these when someone brings things to there attention and they fix it to make people happy. so dont take the updates as minuses. I have also had my 3910 since oct i belive and have had zero problems , not one. and since you have the 3805 it is a perfect match. You wil get to use D-link for all sound coming out of your dvd player(once they finaly release the sacd update).THis still is a great player. I would use HDMI if i were you. It has 10 bit digital while dvi is only 8 bit.

I agree the 3910 is a great player. The PQ is incredible and based upon the audio quality, I'm listening to more 5 channel music than I ever thought I would. My DLP only has DVI so no HDMI enhancements are needed. At this point, I'm subscribing to the "if it aint broke, don't fix it" method. Learned the hard way with computers. I have the upgrade disks from Denon and will probably do the upgrade once the DL3 upgrade comes along (if it ever does). Thanks for the on the HDMI. I'm thinking of getting a new DLP/LCD within a year and the HDMI will be needed then.

I've been following this thread since it's enception, and due to financial issues (my DLP costing more then anticipated ^_^) I haven't been able to pull the trigger on a DVD player yet, and I probably won't for a few months more....

I'm hesitant now though, I've been reading all these issues and what not, more firmware updates then I can track.... Is the Denon 3910 still worth the buy? I've got a little Pioneer player I'm borrowing from a friend, but he wants it back soonish - is the 3910 still a good choice? (It'll be paired with a 1080p 61" DLP and my Denon 3805 receiver if that helps).

Also I have the option of HDMI or Component to use with the display, which would you recommend?



IMHO, definitely HDMI! I've had my 3910 since December '04 and not one problem at all. I also had the opportunity to compare it to the Pio 59avi, and thought the 3910 won hands down. Friends of mine also thought I was nuts in buying a $1300 DVD player and I have no regrets at all. Wait til you see it on your 1080p set. I have mine paired to a Qualia 006.

Rather irrelevant question, but what TV's do you guys have that'll do 1080p? I haven't seen one. I just pulled the trigger on my Sony 34XS955 a few months ago, and have been avoiding anything "TV" so as to avoid buyer's remorse. Just curious about the new displays. Thanks.
Rob

I'm hesitant now though, I've been reading all these issues and what not, more firmware updates then I can track.... Is the Denon 3910 still worth the buy? I've got a little Pioneer player I'm borrowing from a friend, but he wants it back soonish - is the 3910 still a good choice? (It'll be paired with a 1080p 61" DLP and my Denon 3805 receiver if that helps).

Also I have the option of HDMI or Component to use with the display, which would you recommend?

- D


As you see, you will get lots of assurance from this thread (obviously), but I will put it to you this way: The only worry you should have is Macroblocking with your display....if the 3910 does suffer from it with your display, then go for the SP1000 or 59avi. BUT, if you are like 90%+ of most of us, who do not suffer from it, then you are going to be just fine with the 3910!! ;)

and just to give you some more assurance, then here is the Secret's reviews:
Part I: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all#DenonDVD-3910%20DVI/HDMI
Part II: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_1/denon-dvd-3910-dvd-player-1-2005.html

Also, keep in mind that the 3910 has garnered countless awards, so that should also serve as some peace of mind for you...here is just a sample of the awards won THUS FAR:

Secrets of HomeTheater hifi:
Player of the year, 2004, 2nd highest score in benchmark (next to 5910).
( http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all )

“Essential Hi-Fi & home cinema” magazine features “50 of the best entertainment products for 2005” in issue 4 special awards edition.
Luxury DVD Player category
Denon DVD-3910 Awards 2005 Winner
( http://www.homecinemachoice.com/essentialhomecinema/magazine/ )

The Hi-Fi Choice Awards 2004-2005, December 2004 issue
DVD-3910: “GOLD AWARD” BEST DVD PLAYER _500-_1,000
( http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/ )

Sound and Vision Magazine
DVD of the year: Denon DVD-3910
I cant find the article online, but here is the review the month before:
( http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=1&article_id=727&page_number=1 )

“WHAT HI-FI? SOUND AND VISION”, November 2004.
WINNERS of “WHAT HI-FI? SOUND AND VISION” MEGATEST DVD/AV:
DVD-3910/AVR-3805
( http://www.whathifi.com/ )

Audioholics 2004 Product of the year awards
DVD Player: Denon DVD-3910
( http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/2004productawards.html )


and more.......

:

SOLD...1 Denon 3910 is on its way!!

*smiles* Yes I too have hidden my buyer worrying that surfaces every now and then.

I'm sure I will quite happy with it whenever I do get it

- D

I did a review for ***************.com as well here: HTS (http://www.***************.com/html/reviews/techreview.php?rev=70)

I have some avi files 350 megs or so. Does the 3910 play these direct. Can I burn them or do I need to do some encoding.

I did put two on a DVD but the encoding time was long and and only room for two without compression. I was was thinking easier and faster. What about cd-R ? I have Nero and Roxio so there are a lot of options.


Thanks

I just received my 3190 (made 01/05) and I am looking at the circles next to the serial #.
There are two of it. First one next to the ser. # is black spot (black filled circle),
and other one is just a circle.
I there any meaning regarding BTB or something else.
I don't have DVE or some other tools to check.
Many thanks

I just received my 3190 (made 01/05) and I am looking at the circles next to the serial #.
There are two of it. First one next to the ser. # is black spot (black filled circle),
and other one is just a circle.
I there any meaning regarding BTB or something else.
I don't have DVE or some other tools to check.
Many thanks

Something to do with how many times Hugh Hefner bedded the centerfold? ;)

Yeah, the whole "2 Black Circles" thing is confusing me, too, but not with my 3910. I know mine passes BTB, not that it really matters. My 3805's box also has two filled black circles, "butterflied" on a corner of the box. What the heck does that mean? :confused:

Jason

Butterflied?

Hugh again!!!!

Wink

Butterflied?

Hugh again!!!!

Wink
You know...mirrored at the corner of the box. Jeez...:D

Jason

You know...mirrored at the corner of the box. Jeez...:D

Jason

ok i'm seeing mickey and minnie now where's annette and cubbie?

ok i'm seeing mickey and minnie now where's annette and cubbie?
Wow, you're really dating yourself here (and not in the "I'm in love with myself and want to take myself out for a nice dinner and a movie" kind of dating)! :D

Who's Cubbie? Crap, I'm dating myself (33 next month).

Jason

Hi Jason,

I believe the black circles on your box simply mean the components
are black.

Look below the serial number tag on you box.

If there are two circles not filled in on the 3910 box I believe this
means you need the latest firmware update for the BTB.

Best regards,

Tony

Wow, you're really dating yourself here (and not in the "I'm in love with myself and want to take myself out for a nice dinner and a movie" kind of dating)! :D

Who's Cubbie? Crap, I'm dating myself (33 next month).

Jason

Been staying alive at 55 for one week. :eek:

Hi Jason,
If there are two circles not filled in on the 3910 box I believe this
means you need the latest firmware update for the BTB.
Tony

And you'll have to send it to Denon for the fix.

I've picked up my D3910 from service today for the BTB fix.
On the worksheet there is stated.
"Changed IC703"

I'm gonna test my unit this evening.

I've picked up my D3910 from service today for the BTB fix.
On the worksheet there is stated.
"Changed IC703"

I'm gonna test my unit this evening.

They finally admitted it was not just a firmware flash?

They finally admitted it was not just a firmware flash?

"Changed" does not necessarily mean "replaced" . . . though I'd imagine they'd say "flashed" if that's what it was.

I've picked up my D3910 from service today for the BTB fix.
On the worksheet there is stated.
"Changed IC703"

I'm gonna test my unit this evening.

If one had the service manual, you could see exactly what IC703 did. I don't see how one could adjust this with a firmware flash if they have to swap out the chip in the place of IC703.

They did indeed REPLACE it.
The store had to wait several weeks for the replacement chip to arrive.
When they got it, they phoned me so I could bring in my player.
They replaced the chip. My firmware is exactly the same MR version 9 I installed on the player prior to the service.

Hi guys: where can I read some more about DL3? What is is, etc.? I gather it's the ability to pass all the audio over a digital path, presumng the firewire port but is there someplace I can learn some more about it?

Hi guys: where can I read some more about DL3? What is is, etc.? I gather it's the ability to pass all the audio over a digital path, presumng the firewire port but is there someplace I can learn some more about it?

It's Denon's proprietary link that is only usable between . . Denon components. Firewire/IEEE1394/iLink (they're all the same) is the digital link for the rest of the world that doesn't own a Denon receiver. (I don't.) You can probably best learn about it on Denon's website.

I quickly popped in the DVE disc into my 3910 and went to the BTB screen. What I noticed is that with the 3910 adjusted to 0 on IRE, I couldn't see BTB, but when I went back into the 3910's settings and adjusted the IRE back to its default 7.5, I could now see BTB. Is this what everyone else has observed?

It looks so washed out with the default setting of 7.5; what were they thinking? Also, I can't be 100% sure but I could swear that before I performed the most recent upgrade (prior to that it was brand new, right out of the box; i.e., this was the first firmware upgrade I performed), the default setting for IRE didn't produce such a washed out picture.

[EDIT: NVM, I answered my question, or more appropriately, I found my question already answered :) Here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=4436395&&#post4436395) is where a discussion of this issues seems to have first started way back in this thread. Bottom line, I had "Enhanced Black" on and apparently then the only way to see BTB or WTW is with 7.5 IRE]

It's Denon's proprietary link that is only usable between . . Denon components. Firewire/IEEE1394/iLink (they're all the same) is the digital link for the rest of the world that doesn't own a Denon receiver. (I don't.) You can probably best learn about it on Denon's website.Thanks pepar. Once I figured out it's other name is "third link" I found the other info about it:
http://www.audioholics.com/news/pressreleases/DenonLink3rdEdition.php

Still up in the air on the 3910 as I understand it, but released somewhere in europe right?

...but released somewhere in europe right?
Yes, it's available in Europe (certainly Germany) already. I'm not sure why the proverbial heels are dragging over here, but no DL3 yet.

Jason

[EDIT: NVM, I answered my question, or more appropriately, I found my question already answered :) . . . . Bottom line, I had "Enhanced Black" on and apparently then the only way to see BTB or WTW is with 7.5 IRE]

It's a misleading term - "Enhanced Black" He77, who doesn't want to be enhanced?

Yes, it's available in Europe (certainly Germany) already. I'm not sure why the proverbial heels are dragging over here, but no DL3 yet.

Jason

The IP lawyers here have sharper knives and require more "i"'s dotted and "t"'s crossed perhaps.

The IP lawyers here have sharper knives and require more "i"'s dotted and "t"'s crossed perhaps.

The word I got was: in the next two weeks for the 3910 in the US.

Is there a certain technology where the macroblocking problem comes up more with the 3910 (LCD, DLP, Plasma, etc)? I have an opportunity to get a 3910 for a pretty good price and was wondering how I might be limited when I go to upgrade my monitor and far as limitations such as macroblocking. I have heard of troubles with Panny plasmas. Would it be wrong to say plasma bad, LCoS DLP LCD good?

Is there a certain technology where the macroblocking problem comes up more with the 3910 (LCD, DLP, Plasma, etc)? I have an opportunity to get a 3910 for a pretty good price and was wondering how I might be limited when I go to upgrade my monitor and far as limitations such as macroblocking. I have heard of troubles with Panny plasmas. Would it be wrong to say plasma bad, LCoS DLP LCD good?FWIW< I have a Optoma H79 DLP projector projecting on a 110" (8' wide) Firehawk. I'm running DVI to DVI from the 3910. I have never seen any macroblocking. And I've looked for it. HTH. Scott

Is there a certain technology where the macroblocking problem comes up more with the 3910 (LCD, DLP, Plasma, etc)? I have an opportunity to get a 3910 for a pretty good price and was wondering how I might be limited when I go to upgrade my monitor and far as limitations such as macroblocking. I have heard of troubles with Panny plasmas. Would it be wrong to say plasma bad, LCoS DLP LCD good?

I'm using my 3910 with a Sony VPL-HS20 with not a whiff of MB. From reading this thread, I think it's more likely you'll have it with plasma - certain plasmas perhaps. If you search this thread, you'll find the references.

I've also never seen any MB with my Sony HS10 or on our old crappy 35" CRT.

Jason

You should set the 3910 to IRE7.5 (cinema) and the same thing with your display device (if possible to switch there in menus or HW switch). This is the way to go when diplaying cinema information since the info below IRE7.5 (BTB) is used of things like edge enhancement and also when diplaying on a CRT to prevent the analog waving ofh the blacks. You dont want to see the info below IRE 7.5 basically.
The information on a DVD is also stored to use IRE7.5 (16-235) as movie information, so you wont get a better defined IRE scale because you set IRE to IRE0 (0-255) since it is supposed to be IRE7.5 (16-235). It will only be scaled up but the stepping wont be more precise. Try to scale 16-235 to 0-255 in full steps and you will see what i mean. You will get "jumps" in the IR scale instead and that is NOT wanted.

Of course you will have to adjust the brightness and contrast on your display device to match the new setting (going from IRE0 to IRE7.5) since the black level bottom is changed. Use DVE Avia or likwise and the BTB and enhanced white aptterns to set grightness and contrast correct.

Also when this is set correct bugs like the macro blocking bug is somewhat supressed and even if present in the faroudja scaler it is not sure you indeed will see them since some of the info might lie outside of the currently used IRE scale. If you use IRE 0 it is more likly you will indeed see some bugs and banding might also ocurr due to this. For a CRT it is ESSENTIAL to use IRE7.5 due to the analog waving levels for low IRE´s.

Regards
Boogieman

Boogiem'] For a CRT it is ESSENTIAL to use IRE7.5 due to the analog waving levels for low IRE´s.



Huh? I don't believe the information in your post is correct if you're using component video or upconversion. I use a CRT RPTV and use 0.0 IRE w/my 3910. This is the only way to truely display the full range of black (white) from 0-100 IRE.

From Joe Kane Video Essentials FAQs:

What black setting is available from your individual player? Ideally you would want both NTSC and PAL to have a 0 black level. That’s easy to accomplish from the point of view of what’s recorded on the disc. The level of black on the disc is at 0 .

Boogiem']You should set the 3910 to IRE7.5 (cinema) and the same thing with your display device (if possible to switch there in menus or HW switch). This is the way to go when diplaying cinema information since the info below IRE7.5 (BTB) is used of things like edge enhancement and also when diplaying on a CRT to prevent the analog waving ofh the blacks. You dont want to see the info below IRE 7.5 basically.
The information on a DVD is also stored to use IRE7.5 (16-235) as movie information, so you wont get a better defined IRE scale because you set IRE to IRE0 (0-255) since it is supposed to be IRE7.5 (16-235). It will only be scaled up but the stepping wont be more precise. Try to scale 16-235 to 0-255 in full steps and you will see what i mean. You will get "jumps" in the IR scale instead and that is NOT wanted.

Of course you will have to adjust the brightness and contrast on your display device to match the new setting (going from IRE0 to IRE7.5) since the black level bottom is changed. Use DVE Avia or likwise and the BTB and enhanced white aptterns to set grightness and contrast correct.

Also when this is set correct bugs like the macro blocking bug is somewhat supressed and even if present in the faroudja scaler it is not sure you indeed will see them since some of the info might lie outside of the currently used IRE scale. If you use IRE 0 it is more likly you will indeed see some bugs and banding might also ocurr due to this. For a CRT it is ESSENTIAL to use IRE7.5 due to the analog waving levels for low IRE´s.

Regards
Boogieman


Ohmigod, finally an explanation of why there is below black! Thank you.

Huh? I don't believe the information in your post is correct if you're using component video or upconversion. I use a CRT RPTV and use 0.0 IRE w/my 3910. This is the only way to truely display the full range of black (white) from 0-100 IRE.

From Joe Kane Video Essentials FAQs:

Hmm - ok then.....
But the problem with CRT is what i just mentioned about the non stable levels at low IRE´s (voltages) due to the analog domain used. IRE0 is for PC usage.
Maybe you beleive Chris Wiggles (Krris Deering ) and Guy Kuo? ;) Try this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=494606&page=1&pp=30
for a more into detail explanation - I really dont feel like pulling that massive info right here :)

A little quote from Guy Kuo
Whether a picture from a DVD is output in analog form with black represented at 7.5 IRE or 0 IRE is purely a function of the player. A DVD is encoded in digital levels. Black is encoded at digital 16 and this is fixed. Whether that is then output at 0 IRE or 7.5 IRE is beyond the control of the DVD itself.

Regards
Boogieman

Boogiem']Hmm - ok then.....
But the problem with CRT is what i just mentioned about the non stable levels at low IRE´s (voltages) due to the analog domain used. IRE0 is for PC usage.
Maybe you beleive Chris Wiggles (Krris Deering ) and Guy Kuo? ;) Try this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=494606&page=1&pp=30
for a more into detail explanation - I really dont feel like pulling that massive info right here :)
Regards
Boogieman

So you have to set-up your DVD player to compensate for poor display performance? My CRT set has exemplary black levels at low IRE levels. Been ISF'd and tweaked to the Nth degree.

And if you're using component vid, what happens to all the levels of black between 0 and 7.5 IRE? The are cut off by the player from my understanding. Why would you want that?

Denon Link 3rd generation READY FOR DOWNLOADING:
Here you go...
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154394&page=17&pp=15

In the instructions it says that player's Regional coding will be changed to Region # 2. Will this screw-up the player for us here is the US?

Yeah, I think I'll wait for Denon US's version instead of Region 2. :(

Jason

Or even better, let's wait for the MR-version.
I don't think I'm gonna install the DL3 before a MR version is available.

:) Yeah, I think I'll wait for Denon US's version instead of Region 2. :(

Jason

I tried it. It works !

My US machine is still region 1 :D

I loaded disc 2, then 3. No DL3, but everything still worked correctly.

Then I loaded Disk 1, and voila DL3. Then I checked my region 1 discs no problem. Tried region 2 discs, no dice.

I did notice the disc image for disc one had the file D31zsavd.cfw (not D32zsavd.cfw as the instructions indicate) this may be why the file allows US player to stay region 1.

Now I have the 'dsd' symbol showing on my 3805 when I play SACDs using Denon Link, it also reads DSD MULTI DRCT :)

I can select equalizations, tone controls, Surround back channel...cool!

Bass management does NOT convert the DSD signal to PCM.
But selecting equalization does; looking at the OSD it changes from DSD to: DSD>PCM 88.2Khz (for multichannel) or DSD>PCM 176.4 khz for stereo tracks.

Sounds just as good as analog inputs to me (short listening session 10 mins) maybe better with equalization.

DigiPete

Hi everyone, it's been a little while since I posted because I sold my 3910 to buy the Marantz DV9500. I thought you might enjoy sharing in my little adventure. I assumed the Marantz would have a little better audio quality and at least an equal video PQ, but I was wrong. First, the Marantz just kills the 3910 as a CD, SACD, DVD-A player. Low level details are much clearer, imaging is more 3D, bass is deep, tuneful and tight, whereas the 3910 is congested and a bit boomy in the low end. The bass weight of the 3910 is often mistaken for good bass, it isn't. The 9500 is all around one of the finest sounding players I've heard. Even vocals and voices were more intelligible from either analogue or digital outs. That said, the Marantz is considerably more expensive and the audio quality is why. At least you get what your paying for.

Things became confusing when I watched DVD's. There's supposedly 14 bit video processing in the Marantz. I've owned quite a few (at least 15) different DVD players, so I have a clue as to the typical qualities certain brands tend to emphasize. The Marantz DVD playback was awesome on close-ups and shots with very little motion. It showed a bit more detail than the 3910. I began to notice a certain kind of blurring when there was lots of movement and lateral motion. In general, the picture seemed softer than the 3910 as well. I was missing the stunning sharpness and clarity of the 3910. After getting some help and generous advice from Kris Deering of the Secrets of Home Theater website I now understand that the Marantz DV9500 has Pioneer processing for DVD and it is an 8 bit type, not 10 bits like the 3910. I owned two top of the line Pioneer DVD players and before I knew of the Pioneer processing I commented to my wife that the 9500's PQ reminded me of the Pioneer DVD players I'd owned.

So, if audio is a priority and very good but not great DVD PQ is acceptable, by all means get a DV9500. But if maximum DVD clarity, sharpness and color accuracy is paramount and very good but not great audio is acceptable, the 3910 is the way to go.

I'm selling the 9500. I'm considering getting a new 3910 or looking into the Onkyo 1000. I have a couple of questions:

How many dots do I look for to pass BTB again and what build date has the newest firmware?