Denon 3910 Owners Thread [Text View] - Page 17

DigiPete

06-24-05, 03:25 AM

"Couldn't wait. Tried it. It works My US machine is still region 1."

While I'm hella tempted, what if you funk up your player by installing this? Can you then update with Denon US's DL3 upgrade and everything's fine? I'd love to finally get DL3, and I'm sure that everybody around here would be thrilled to hear me shut the hell up about it, but I'm leary about what it might do that can't be undone. Call me gun shy...maybe I'm choking...:)

Jason

I took a calculated risk. I reasoned that all 3910s are the same, just different firmware. Since I had the 3 -B disks, and the DL3 upgrade changed the same firmwares, I figured I could always reflash those firmwares back to the (non-DL3) -B configuration.

The same reasoning holds for my Pio 578a (575 european). I use 575 firmware in the 578a and it works just fine.

Jump in, the water's fine!

DigiPete

Mike2005

06-24-05, 04:17 AM

I reasoned that all 3910s are the same, just different firmware.

I am not sure that this can be true. If all 3910s were indeed the same except for FW, then how come on your 3910 the region stayed at 1 after the FW-upgrade whereas European 3910s stay at region 2. This would indicate that the region is not stored in the FW of the player.

Mike

keenan

06-24-05, 04:44 AM

I am not sure that this can be true. If all 3910s were indeed the same except for FW, then how come on your 3910 the region stayed at 1 after the FW-upgrade whereas European 3910s stay at region 2. This would indicate that the region is not stored in the FW of the player.

Mike
That's the point I was trying to make earlier. The FW upgrade under discussion evidently does not affect the region code setting. The would explain why it works on region 2 and region 1 players. Probably works on all of them...but that's just a guess on my part..

esp1

06-24-05, 05:20 AM

I am not sure that this can be true. If all 3910s were indeed the same except for FW, then how come on your 3910 the region stayed at 1 after the FW-upgrade whereas European 3910s stay at region 2. This would indicate that the region is not stored in the FW of the player.

Mike

The region code is probably stored in a separate EEPROM which is flashed at the factory.

Replacing the firmware will not change this setting.

The region free firmware just ignore the setting, it does not change it either.

Mike2005

06-24-05, 06:30 AM

[Europe]Boogiem

06-24-05, 07:13 AM

The region code is probably stored in a separate EEPROM which is flashed at the factory.

Replacing the firmware will not change this setting.

The region free firmware just ignore the setting, it does not change it either.
The question is now:
- When will a region free DL3 firmware arrive :D
I live in Europe (guess u knew that from my nick allready - duh) and have been waiting for the DL3 firmware be4 i buy my machine. I have been through a few denon machines be4 and know that sometimes they say something at pressrelease that will be "implied later" only later can be A LOT later like 1-2 yeards from release date.
So now i will either wiat for the next gen of Denon players (hear that there will be none this year) or buy the 3910 meanwhile...when they get the region free mod (i live in europe but only looks at reg1 discs - they are superior in quality most of the time and also the 480 line matches the 720 line conversion a lot better - it only have to upscale the pic by 1.5 whereas 576lines will be scaled by 1.25 and i guess the easier the calculation, the less stress on the scaler = the better pic quality :) I mean the 576 line should mean better base quality but most of the time it seems like it is the master that sets the quality because i really cant see more detail in PAL version - most often the opposite strange enough)

Now if they only could include VGA with 720p also :rolleyes:

Regards
Boogie - who is still waiting - man

Martin Butler

06-24-05, 08:31 AM

How many black dots on the box do I look for to pass BTB?

Mike2005

06-24-05, 09:10 AM

How many black dots on the box do I look for to pass BTB?

Two filled in circles under the serial no. Here is a link to
a more detailed discussion in this thread with pictures.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=447795&page=148&pp=20

GetGray

06-24-05, 09:20 AM

How many black dots on the box do I look for to pass BTB?
see:

http://www.kgjack.com/denon_3910.htm

DigiPete

06-24-05, 09:21 AM

Thanks, sounds like a reasonable explanation to me!

Indeed.

Actually the ESS-6609 firmware is what is used to control the region code. Updating this firmware determines if your region code will be set or not, depending on how the firmware is written. That is why a certain versions of 6609 firmware can make machines region free, region 1, region 2 etc or in the case of the DL3 update from the 'sickpuppy' site, it did not affect the region code.

Martin Butler

06-24-05, 09:40 AM

Thanks GetGray, most appreciated.

tor ove

06-24-05, 10:25 AM

Indeed.

Actually the ESS-6609 firmware is what is used to control the region code. Updating this firmware determines if your region code will be set or not, depending on how the firmware is written. That is why a certain versions of 6609 firmware can make machines region free, region 1, region 2 etc or in the case of the DL3 update from the 'sickpuppy' site, it did not affect the region code.

Just to be clear here.
If my player today is multi region, installing the DL3 files som sickpuppy will give med DL3 and still a Multi Region player ???

In other words. People, like me, having a MR player don't have to wait for a MR-version of the DL3-files?

DigiPete

06-24-05, 10:41 AM

Just to be clear here.
If my player today is multi region, installing the DL3 files som sickpuppy will give med DL3 and still a Multi Region player ???

In other words. People, like me, having a MR player don't have to wait for a MR-version of the DL3-files?

... well it did not change my region 1 player, but I had the 3 disks to go back to the -B configuration. If you do this upgrade and your region code is affected, you may not be able to go back to 6609-9 Multi region, since the 6609-9 MR only changed the ESS firmware, and you have no way to change the other two firmwares back to what they were before. I took a low risk approach, but for you this would be higher risk as you have no sure way to go back.

DigiPete

Mike2005

06-24-05, 11:09 AM

Just to be clear here.
If my player today is multi region, installing the DL3 files som sickpuppy will give med DL3 and still a Multi Region player ???

In other words. People, like me, having a MR player don't have to wait for a MR-version of the DL3-files?

I doubt that this is the case. Just as esp1 wrote I think the player has a build in default region code that is used unless a special MR FW prevents this code from being used. If the new DL3 FW is not specifically MR, then I think you will revert back to your original default region.

macattack27

06-24-05, 12:57 PM

Well I too took the plunge and my Region 1 player is still Region 1. DL3 is up and running and I have removed the DL2 sticker from the back of my 3910. :)

My quick DL3 impressions 3910 --> 5803A.
I personally feel the sound noticeably improved. I have decent cabling between the 3910 and 5803A and my audio improved in clarity through the DL3. My guess is that even though the 5803A has older DACs the cumulative D/A conversion processing on the 5803A is better than the 3910. Anyone else have this setup or could comment? Also, still can't figure out why Denon USA would delay the DL3 for so long after releasing it in Europe???

DigiPete

06-24-05, 01:34 PM

[QUOTE=macattack27]Well I too took the plunge and my Region 1 player is still Region 1. DL3 is up and running and I have removed the DL2 sticker from the back of my 3910. :)

QUOTE]

congrats! That's 2 happy campers so far :)

Burkerg

06-24-05, 04:39 PM

DigiPete

06-24-05, 06:36 PM

Hmmm...I just tried updating to DL3, but my player wouldn't start the update. I inserted disc 1, and the display showed "Loading," then, "Stop." Any suggestions?

Update: Stupid mistake...got it to work. However...what display is showing DSD for you guys? My 3805's display shows "Multi Ch In," and its OSD will only show "DSD>PCM 88.2KHz," no matter on what I have the receiver's equalization set. Any ideas? Thanks!

Oh...other than that...works perfectly. Good luck, everyone!

Rob

There is a little icon on the 3805 display on the left side which should indicate DSD. To get pure DSD in the 3805 you cannot have any equalization selected, the surround back speaker must be selected off, and make sure you are in direct mode (try hitting direct on your remote, or pure direct) then your 3805 display will indicate DSD MULTI DRCT

tsteves

06-24-05, 07:28 PM

DigiPete

06-24-05, 07:55 PM

Digipete
"I loaded disc 2, then 3. No DL3, but everything still worked correctly.
Then I loaded Disk 1, and voila DL3. "

This disk loading order is correct?
Was your download iso files?
I'm just making sure they haven't changed anything.

No, I was trying out a different order to see if disks 2&3 and would give me DL3 without applying Disc 1, which could potentially change the region code. As it turns out, this firmware will essentially set your machine to its native region code.
So applying them in the correct order is the proper way.

Yes they were iso files on the download.

Cheers
Pete

tsteves

06-24-05, 08:29 PM

Not working. Probably a roxio issue. I did set for iso9660 mode1.
3910 just reads "stop". I'll try again tomorrow.

DigiPete

06-24-05, 08:48 PM

Not working. Probably a roxio issue. I did set for iso9660 mode1.
3910 just reads "stop". I'll try again tomorrow.

I used Nero smart start (the for dummies version) and "burn image to disc" and it worked ok.

Badabbing

06-24-05, 08:55 PM

Not working. Probably a roxio issue. I did set for iso9660 mode1.
3910 just reads "stop". I'll try again tomorrow.

It's more than probable, it's more like likely. Try Nero if you can and you shouldn't have any problems.

JasonColeman

06-24-05, 10:39 PM

Any other brave souls jumping on this upgrade?

Jason

BenDover

06-25-05, 09:03 AM

Any other brave souls jumping on this upgrade?

Jason

Not I said the blind man...I don't have a Denon receiver so plain old 1394 has been working beautifully for me...I did apply the latest firmware upgrade, before the DL3 release.

AlDente

06-25-05, 11:12 AM

Sweaty plams but it worked. Thanks for the info guys. DL3 is now operational!

Now I can put those nice 5 channel blue jeans analog cables to better use :D

Denon 3910
Denon 3805
Monitor Audio S8's
Monitor Audio S6's
Monitor Audio Slcr

Monitor Audio S1's in reserve for pending 7.1
Velodyne SPL 1200II

keenan

06-25-05, 12:44 PM

Okay, I'm convinced it's same for multi-region players. So does anyone know where this upgrade can be found for the 5900...or the 5910 even...? :)

DigiPete

06-25-05, 12:51 PM

Okay, I'm convinced it's same for multi-region players. So does anyone know where this upgrade can be found for the 5900...or the 5910 even...? :)

I think some multi-region guys complained that this wipes out multi-region. But one person put 6609-9 Multi region back in, and his unit still worked and became MR again(but no more DL3).

Don't know about 5900 or 5910. I read 5900 probably needs hardware upgrades as well.

Time will tell...

Cheers
Pete

tsteves

06-25-05, 02:03 PM

I see the light! It is so nice to see the denon link light and the sacd light on at the same time!
I was almost ready to load in my copy of nero5, but I checked "help" first on roxio. You have to use windows explorer, right click and select "record to cd" to get roxio to do it right. I do agree that nero is better, but I forget why I have roxio now.
Any way, the files I ended up with on the disks were:
Disk 1
D31ZSAVD.CFW
Disk 2
DV3910sys.id
DV3910sys.mot
SUP3910.rom
Disk 3
D391IL.ROM

Worked like a charm, but I can't say there weren't some anxious moments.
The first time I put in "dark side of the moon" it wouldn't start, but after trying some others which worked and putting it back in again, it worked fine.

Thanks digipete for bravely trying this. you da man!

DigiPete

06-25-05, 05:33 PM

Denophile

06-25-05, 08:15 PM

Okay, I'm convinced it's same for multi-region players. So does anyone know where this upgrade can be found for the 5900...or the 5910 even...? :)

I just got a response from denon about the 5910 and dl3--I am waiting to get one from tweeter (Got it 15%off during one of those one day events...! :>) ) and I assumed that the wait was because I was waiting for one that would have denonlink active (I have a 3805 receiver). SADLY :( this is what I got for a reply:

This model is in stock. I suggest you have the dealer
check with their rep. DLIII is not quite ready yet for
the DVD-5910. The unit will come shipped with DLII.

Best Regards,

J. McGuinness

I then asked whether the update would be firmware or a send-in and he replied:

I'm not sure at this exact point. When we know it
will be posted.

Best Regards,

J. McGuinness

I read on another list that the 5900 and 5910 will have to be sent in for the update when it occurrs, but the denon guy failed to confirm this...geez, and I was so excited having followed this forum for this very reason for some time now (if it hadn't been for the sale I definitely woud have ended up with the 3910!!)

JasonColeman

06-25-05, 08:48 PM

Hmmm...I just tried updating to DL3, but my player wouldn't start the update. I inserted disc 1, and the display showed "Loading," then, "Stop." Any suggestions?

Update: Stupid mistake...got it to work.

Rob
Okay, so I've bitten the proverbial bullet (it seems like the poisonous fruit may not be so poisonous after all :D ), and downloaded the European DL3 update, but I also can't get Disc 1 to work. I load it into the player and it reads "Loading" and then "Stop." I'm sure I'm making a stupid mistake, too, but apparently I'm too much of a dumbass to figure out what the mistake is! Any help would be appreciated. I'm burning the discs with Nero Burning Rom and I believe that all of the settings are correct, but maybe I'm overlooking something.

Thanks!

Jason

AlDente

06-25-05, 09:34 PM

Okay, so I've bitten the proverbial bullet (it seems like the poisonous fruit may not be so poisonous after all :D ), and downloaded the European DL3 update, but I also can't get Disc 1 to work. I load it into the player and it reads "Loading" and then "Stop." I'm sure I'm making a stupid mistake, too, but apparently I'm too much of a dumbass to figure out what the mistake is! Any help would be appreciated. I'm burning the discs with Nero Burning Rom and I believe that all of the settings are correct, but maybe I'm overlooking something.

Thanks!

Jason

Sounds like disk three, it starts out "Loading" then "Stop". Make sure they are the correct disks. I used the Nero Burning ROM ISO Joilet and my CD's contain the following files:

Disk 1 D31ZSAVD

Disk 2 DV3910sys.id, DV3910sys.mot, SUP3910.rom

Disk 3 D391IL.rom

Make sure you were using the ISO 9660 format.

JasonColeman

06-25-05, 10:33 PM

Well I must actually be a moron (despite the rumors) because I have .iso files on my discs. What the heck am I doing wrong? I downloaded the files from the link, unzipped them and tried to burn them with all the correct settings. Again, I'm sure I'm doing something stupid (and embarassing...).

Thanks for your Yoda-esque wisdom and guidance in advance,

Jason

JasonColeman

06-25-05, 10:37 PM

I just downloaded them again, unzipped them, and all 3 are .iso files (except for the Word file). Any ideas?

Dumbass (aka- Jason)

keenan

06-25-05, 10:43 PM

Are you sure you are making an image file on the CDs, and not trying to burn a data file onto the CD..?

I can't remember the particulars offhand, but folks have been tripped up by the exact type of disc they are trying to make before.

BenDover

06-25-05, 10:52 PM

Jason, with nero burning rom, go to "file | open" (cancel out of the new compilation box if that opens by default) and select the .iso file you want to burn, then burn...should be that simple. the resulting disc shouldn't have an .iso file on it but instead the contents of that .iso file.

[EDIT: Or you can go to the "Recorder | Burn image" menu and select the .iso too :) ]

JasonColeman

06-25-05, 11:17 PM

Well I finally got Disc 1 to work, but I can't burn Disc 2 at all. Nero keeps saying that the burn process has failed. I tried burning it the same way that I did Disc 1, but I've gone through about half a dozen CD-Rs and it's really starting to piss me off. Crap...what the hell???

Jason

AlDente

06-25-05, 11:21 PM

OK Here goes:

1. Load blank CD into burner drive.

2. Either Nero will coem or Windows will ask you what you want to do.

3. Launch Nero Express

4 Click on the yellow star and select "Make Data CD"

5. Click on Burning ROM button

6. In the second to the right Column select the directory where the CD1.iso file is located. The file appear in the right column.

7. Left click the CD1 file and drag it to the left CD-ROM column.

8 Click yes in the windows dialog box

9. Check the box in front of the Finalize CD line

10 Click Burn and it will burn the correct files to the blank CD-ROM

11. Repeat above with CD2 & CD3.

Should be Golden

JasonColeman

06-25-05, 11:29 PM

Pardon my French...but Jesus F'ing Christ...I use Nero all the god damn time. I've burned every frickin' update from Denon without a single problem. I've tried downloading this fuggin' file 3 or 4 times, burned through over a dozen CD-Rs, and the most frustrating part is that I've got the first Disc installed on my 3910 (just to make sure that it would read, because I had 4 other copies before that wouldn't read properly).

I'm using Nero Burning Rom 5.5 (as I've used repeatedly in the past), not Express, but I can't seem to get Disc 2 to work. I'm not going to try Disc 3 because I'm sure I'll run out of CD-Rs. This is irritating...

Jason

JasonColeman

06-26-05, 12:36 AM

Still to no avail...I'll get back after it in the morning...I don't know what the hell I'm doing wrong...:confused:

In the meantime, anyone interested in some hi-tech coasters?

Jason

keenan

06-26-05, 03:45 AM

Still to no avail...I'll get back after it in the morning...I don't know what the hell I'm doing wrong...:confused:

In the meantime, anyone interested in some hi-tech coasters?

Jason
At least AOL puts pretty logos on theirs.. :p :D

Sorry, couldn't help it.. :)

Have you tried burning it at the lowest burn speed? Nero 5.5 is an older version, they're at 6.3 or something now, that may or may not have something to do with it...are you positive your burning an ISO 9660 Mode 1...did you disable all other options...if you have BURN-proof, try it with that off.... do you have a friend with a CD burner who could burn them for you..maybe you haven't drunk enough beer yet..?

Burkerg

06-26-05, 04:30 AM

Jason,
My stupid problem was that I was actually burning the ISO files to disc, rather than the content of the ISO files. I had to double click the files, select the contents I needed, and then burn. I'm using a Mac, though, so things may be different in PC land. Ensure that you're burning the "D31ZSAVD.CFW, DV3910sys.id, DV3910sys.mot, SUP3910.rom, and D391IL.rom" files and not the files entitled "CD 1, CD 2, and CD 3." Good luck! Later!

Rob

dmtremblay

06-26-05, 08:27 AM

BenDover

06-26-05, 08:33 AM

I'm having an issue with the 3910's DVI output (720p) with DVD material and was curious if anyone else was having problems. The player functioned properly for about a month then all of a sudden began having the following behavior: the sound is fine but the picture locks up every 5 seconds or so then jumps ahead, skips again 5 seconds later then jumps ahead, and repeats this forever. The picture is output correctly over Component. I returned the player to my local retailers service dept who then shipped it to Denon. After being held up in Denon service for more than a month awaiting a new DVI board they finally gave me a new unit. So my new unit worked flawlessly for about a month then last night started having the same problem over DVI. I haven't heard of anyone else having this problem so I think it's strange that I have had 2 units do the same thing. I'm probably going to have to return the unit to Denon again and wait 30 days to get a new one. Is anyone else having a similar problem?

David

I know this doesn't solve your problem exactly, but have you considered simply using the HDMI port on the 3910 and either get an adapter for your existing DVI cable or get a new HDMI->DVI cable?

pepar

06-26-05, 08:34 AM

I'm having an issue with the 3910's DVI output (720p) with DVD material and was curious if anyone else was having problems. The player functioned properly for about a month then all of a sudden began having the following behavior: the sound is fine but the picture locks up every 5 seconds or so then jumps ahead, skips again 5 seconds later then jumps ahead, and repeats this forever. The picture is output correctly over Component. I returned the player to my local retailers service dept who then shipped it to Denon. After being held up in Denon service for more than a month awaiting a new DVI board they finally gave me a new unit. So my new unit worked flawlessly for about a month then last night started having the same problem over DVI. I haven't heard of anyone else having this problem so I think it's strange that I have had 2 units do the same thing. I'm probably going to have to return the unit to Denon again and wait 30 days to get a new one. Is anyone else having a similar problem?

David

Very weird and I'm sure this will not be of any help at all, :) but are you using power conditioning with surge protection? Get a lot of lightning in Houston? Perhaps you've got dirty power that's messin' with your electronics. That might explain why you've had the same problem with two units. My thinking is that the odds against having two random units with a problem like this is next to nil. Try re-initializing your unit and see if that fixes it, though I cannot imagine Denon not trying that. If re-initializing your unit does fix it - for a while - then power conditioning may be your long term fix.

Martin Butler

06-26-05, 08:41 AM

dmtremblay, that is strange, sorry to hear about your troubles. If you haven't already, definitely get some decent power conditioning as pepar mentioned. Would you mind checking on your build date? (somewhere at the back of the machine). I'm about to buy my second 3910 ( I sold the first) and will check the 720 DVI out for you, in case it's another situation like the BTB problem with certain manufacturing dates.

JasonColeman

06-26-05, 10:06 AM

pepar

06-26-05, 10:24 AM

The problem is that I'm unable to actually open the .iso files (either in Nero or otherwise) and get the files that I need. :confused:

Jason

Hi Jason,

You don't really mean "open the ISO files" do you? You do not need to open them, just burn them.

_XipHiaS_

06-26-05, 10:49 AM

pepar

06-26-05, 10:54 AM

Having my new PJ, now going to upgrade the DVD player, still using the very old Sony DVP-S7700 :D. The font for subtitles on this thing is blocky, it looks like made from Lego Duplo block's :D. Can someone tell me how the font's from the 3910 look's on a big screen? Or maybe even bether, post a closeup image?
Using subtitles a load, i would like them nice processed, or am i asking to much and are all font's like that?

My 3910's set-up menu text looks like Lego Duplo blocks, but is very readable. Any subtitles I've even seen looked much better and I suspect are upscaled along with the image. My screen is 92" wide 16:9.

AlDente

06-26-05, 11:14 AM

The problem is that I'm unable to actually open the .iso files (either in Nero or otherwise) and get the files that I need. :confused:

Jason

Jason,
You are probably out attending an Anger Management class (or buying blank CD's at Frys) but just in case you still want to upgrade you might try getting the latest version of Nero. I just downloaded a "Demo" version specifically to burn the DL3 files and it worked fine. You cannot open the ISO files. Nero converts them when it burns them to the CD. All you have to do is drag them to the CD burn column and respond to the questions. It is important to finalize the disk after writing and that option appears just before Nero starts burning the disk.

I have been playing with the DL3 a bit and can tell you it is worth the hassle.

ted_b

06-26-05, 11:31 AM

Jason,
I can imagine how frustrating it is; I went through this "my player won't read iso's" just for some stupid firmware on my old Momitsu back when I had it. And that was just one cd. The new Nero is a lot easier to use. But....you might wanna take a deep breath before posting all those f-bombs. And we don't want you keeling over on us.

So, those of you who have successfully crossed the SACD DSD DL3 line:
does it sound better , worse or different than analog or I-link? A comparison to I-link would be interesting, as both are using the pre/pro or receiver's dacs.

Ted

JasonColeman

06-26-05, 11:34 AM

Thanks guys for all the help. I'm still not able to burn these discs. Within Nero, in the file browser window, I have the files that I unzipped (CD1.iso, CD2.iso, and CD3.iso). I'm able to drag these (one at a time) over to the "project window" and it will burn them, but it burns them as the .iso files. Again, I've never had any problems with Nero before, and that's why this is so frustrating. When Burkerg said that he had to double-click the iso files to get the files he needed, it led me to believe that maybe the files I needed were actually in the .iso files. I think that all of my settings are correct, as they have worked in the past (ISO 9660, Mode 1, uncheck Joliet, etc), but I can't get this to work.

If somebody could post the required files, I would greatly appreciate it. I'm at a total loss here...

Jason

mjstonez

06-26-05, 01:13 PM

Where is the download link to the DL3 upgrade?

Thanks guys.
mike

JBaumgart

06-26-05, 01:31 PM

Jason, reading your trials and tribulations has convinced me to wait a bit and just have Denon send me the DL3 update CD's. Not worth the frustration, in my view.

JasonColeman

06-26-05, 01:35 PM

Where is the download link to the DL3 upgrade?
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154394&page=17&pp=15

Jason

Have Fun! :)

SSMW

06-26-05, 02:23 PM

Hi all,

Finally bought the 3910 after waiting about 6 months.

I think I'm seeing the MB issue with my display (JVC 52" HD-ila z575 model) over the HDMI input. This is noticeable with Spiderman 2's opening titles with the solid blocks of red and blue. As well, on Bad Boys, see blocks of red within the black of the thieves' black garments in the beginning of the movie when they're about to break into the precinct. These are not there over component.

I've searched through the various threads and tried to read them all (there is so much that I'm thoroughly confused). Are what I'm describing MB? If so, will the firmware upgrades solve or minimize them?

Finally, can I use the US site for FW update downloads even though I'm in Canada?

Any help would be appreciated.

BTW, I have calibrated the display with Avia.

Simon

James Elvick

06-26-05, 03:38 PM

Hello Guys,

So clue me in on the dot thing :) We want 2 black dots on the outside of the box? This signifies what exactly? One DOT requires new firmware or is there a physical problem? Does the DOT issue correspond to the manufacture date?

Thanks
James

tonydeluce

06-26-05, 07:12 PM

Simon,

I have a JVC D-ILA and when I first hooked up the 3910 I saw exactly
what you did. I believe this is macroblocking combined with the
terrible CR and BL of this set. I have done several things and I am
not sure exactly what elimanted the problem but here is what I did:

1) Updated firmware to the latest update before the DL3 update that
came out a few days ago.

2) Turned off enhanced black level

3) HDMI = 1080i = YCbCr

3) Set IRE = 0

4) Turned down brightness and detail settings to an acceptable level which
is just around 50% or slightly less for both of these settings.

I haven't seen what you are describing since I did the above.

Best regards,

Tony

tonydeluce

06-26-05, 07:16 PM

James, it is my understanding that if you have two circles underneath the
serial number that are not filled in this means you require a firmware update
for your system to pass BTB. Two black circles filled in in at other places
on the box simply mean the component inside is black. Best regards, Tony

SSMW

06-26-05, 07:43 PM

JasonColeman

06-26-05, 07:53 PM

Just use the serial number off the back of the unit pictured at Denon's site: http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/photo.asp?s=home&p=DVD-3910&f=DVD3910S%20Back.jpg&c=4

:D

Jason

BTW, thanks to DigiPete and Burkerg for the files...I really appreciate your help (so does my blood pressure!).

JasonColeman

06-26-05, 08:31 PM

It works like a champ! :D Thanks again to all for the help/guidance/sanity. Sorry for the meltdown last night...:( My frustration got the better of me...

Happy (again),

Jason

tonydeluce

06-27-05, 01:28 AM

I have pre-ordered the Samsung 6168 - has anyone noticed macroblocking
with any of the new DLPs that are already out using the DVD-3910?

Spizz

06-27-05, 01:33 AM

It works like a champ!

Good to see you got there in the end :)

DigiPete

06-27-05, 02:17 AM

It works like a champ! :D Happy (again),

Jason

Excellent!!

DCIFRTHS

06-27-05, 03:05 AM

Please don't thread fart .... - Cain

Thread fart :D

miho

06-27-05, 08:29 AM

Will appreciate if somebody here can explain mysterious
two circles underneath the serial number.
In my case first one is filled in, and other one not.
Is there any meaning regarding firmware or BTB fix.
Many thanks
Miho

pepar

06-27-05, 08:39 AM

GetGray

06-27-05, 09:10 AM

I have pre-ordered the Samsung 6168 - has anyone noticed macroblocking
with any of the new DLPs that are already out using the DVD-3910? My Optoma DLP FP didn't show any macroblocking. I used it with my 3910 (which is for sale in the AVS sale/classified forum) via DVI at 720p from the 3910.

Martin Butler

06-27-05, 09:27 AM

Tony, would you mind telling us a bit about the Samsung you've pre-ordered? I'm about to buy the 3910, but am considering other options, like the Oppo, etc. Saving some cash while waiting for HD-DVD's is becoming a possibility for me, even though I usually buy the best available machinery I can afford at the time.

Roger 10-4

06-27-05, 11:25 AM

Bought my DVD 3910 on Saturday and had to return it today !
Pretty much all of the discs I tried caused the player to freeze at some stage.
Will be 3 weeks for a replacement........... :-S

tonydeluce

06-27-05, 03:25 PM

Hi Martin,

The Samsung I pre-ordered is the 61in. "floating screen" 1080p model with a 7 segment
color wheel. I currently have the JVC 52 in. D-ILA and observed what I believed to be
macro-blocking when I first hooked up the 3910. I have been able to adjust the set
so that I don't see the macro-blocking but would like to get a feel if anyone has
observed macroblocking with a DLP unit and if so which model/s.

Thanks,

Tony

[Europe]Boogiem

06-27-05, 03:53 PM

Tony,

Thanks for the quick reply. I'll try what you have suggested. As currently my settings are:

IRE=7.5
HDMI=720p=YCbCr
Enhanced Black Level On

What about the firmware download issue? Can anyone comment? Can I just download from the USA Site? I'm just paranoid that I have to register my info and the site specifically states for US only. Just don't want to screw with the warranty with Denon Canada.

Thanks

Simon

IRE 7.5 is the correct setting for cinema use. IRE 0 is the correct setting for PC use.
Do you have a switch also on the PJ maybe where you can choose PC (IRE0) or cinema (IRE7.5) (or a software option). In that case set that one also to IRE7.5 or cinema whatever your manufacturer calls it.

Enhanced normally means not standard on todays gizmoms.
Enhanced black should not be used - normally everything that begins with enhanced should be set to off :D since it often moves something out of the (from the film industry correct) standard like D65 point, black level detail and so on.

Calibrating BTB is essential for every display though. You know the drill and i saw that you allready had done that part and i guess you did that at 7.5 IRE.

Really strange that the other guy proposed IRE 0 since that is not the cinema standard? Maybe there is an IRE (soft or hard) switch on the Pj after all (like on the Yamaha DPX1000)?

Regarding the BTB firmware issue i think it might play a role. When i tested the "old" European firmware 3910 i could not get the IRE switch to work as supposed to on the 3910. IT simply did not seem to change the stimulus voltage when switching between IRE0 and IRE7.5 so i guess that is what they have corrected (i hope).

Still I dont own a 3910 though i have tested and calibrated 2-3 units when making projector tests and comparisons allthough havent been playing with it for a couple of months now.

Regards
Boogiman

Mike2005

06-27-05, 04:45 PM

Boogiem']IRE 7.5 is the correct setting for cinema use. IRE 0 is the correct setting for PC use.

Boogieman, I have read various times that IRE should be set depending on if your video equipment is NTSC or PAL based. If that is true, than IRE 7.5 is not the correct setting for all cases.

Mike

MarkStega

06-27-05, 05:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by [Europe]Boogiem
IRE 7.5 is the correct setting for cinema use. IRE 0 is the correct setting for PC use.

Boogieman, I have read various times that IRE should be set depending on if your video equipment is NTSC or PAL based. If that is true, than IRE 7.5 is not the correct setting for all cases.

Mike is correct; IRE is simply a measure of voltage; There are 140 IRE units in one volt. NTSC defines black to be 7.5 IRE (53.6mv); Japanese NTSC defines black to be 0 IRE (0.0 mv). IRE has NOTHING to do with PC or cinema black levels.

The important thing is to match the source & the display. Whatever the display expects to be black, you want to set the source to match.

The other thing that is being confused is the DIGITAL level of black. PC's typically use a scale of 0 (black) to 255 (white). Video uses a scale of 16 (black) to 235 (white). Less then 16 is "blacker then black", greater then 235 is 'extended white'. Again, the most important thing is to match the source and the display. DVD's are encoded 16-235 (and do contain information outside that range).

Apparently, some manufacturers "extend" the range from 16-235 & scale it to 0-255. If your display is a business class projector and that is all it will do, you have to live with the results. You get color artifacts in this conversion.

You really want to have a video display that is calibrated to show black at 16, white at around 235 (or a bit more).

Also, if you are using a digital connection (HDMI or DVI), then IRE shouldn't even be discussed. It is a digital transmission of values 0-255 and you still want black at 16, white around 235.

[EDIT] There is an excellent thread here Go-to Guide for Source Options (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=494606) that really goes into detail.

[Europe]Boogiem

06-27-05, 05:18 PM

Boogieman, I have read various times that IRE should be set depending on if your video equipment is NTSC or PAL based. If that is true, than IRE 7.5 is not the correct setting for all cases.

Mike

I mixed things up (I admit)

Though it dpes not depend on PAL or NTSC but...... -->
North American NTSC standards historically used a level for the analog output of black that was 53.6mV (aka 7.5 IRE) above the blanking voltage of 0mV (0 IRE), and we still do. Other standards like HD, Japanese NTSC, etc use 0mV to output black, and lack the 53.6mV (7.5 IRE) ‘setup pedestal’ that North America uses. This IRE setup option allows you to switch between these two voltage output levels for black. Neither will necessarily provide any universal increase in picture quality: it merely alters the voltage output that is used to represent black. With a correctly designed player and a good display, upon recalibrating your display to the new source outputs, your picture would be identical.

I was thinking of the studio and PC levels (mixed it up with IRE0 and IRE7.5) and that one should allways be set to studio levels.

A little quote about the 3910
2) For DVD players when using a digital output (DVI, HDMI).

When using digital outputs, your primary concern is to get the DVD’s image data output as undisturbed as possible. As simple as this might seem, design/price constraints, sloppy engineering, and ‘features’ can get in the way of transferring the digital data from the DVD intact. Always try to avoid using any image-altering features such as picture controls. These adjustments will usually have negative impacts on picture quality.

When using digital outputs, the major adjustment option you have is the one for digital levels. As is common in consumer labeling, the labels for this can be confusing. The most common labeling will at least hopefully show that you are making an adjustment to the DVI/HDMI digital outputs, and usually the options will read ‘Normal/Enhanced’ or ‘Normal/Expanded’ or ‘Video/PC,’ or some such label. The latter is clearer, as this adjustment is choosing whether or not the digital image data is correctly output using Studio (also called Video) levels, or is incorrectly re-mapped to PC levels. You should choose to maintain Studio levels by checking to make sure this option is properly set. Usually the default setting will correctly choose the option for Studio levels. Check to make sure.

Note that the Studio/PC level option will only work for DVI and HDMI RGB. If you are using HDMI YCbCr, Studio levels should be preserved correctly(and as far as I’m aware sources aren’t screwing this up, yet…) and the option change will either have no effect or be unavailable.

Because you are using digital outputs, adjustments for analog outputs shouldn’t be a consideration. Unfortunately again, due to cost-saving designs sometimes analog output adjustments, such as those for IRE setup, are implemented digitally even though they have nothing to do with digital outputs. Here your concern is still to ensure that the digital image data is being left as undisturbed as possible. In a well-designed player, the IRE option will have no effect whatsoever when using digital outputs. If this setting causes any change in the image when using the digital outputs, you should use test patterns to see which option leaves data un-clipped. In this instance, the degree of clipping or image alterations may be severe, so Avia, DVE, or any good test disc will come in handy. In Avia, look for the moving near-black and near-white white bars; in DVE use the ramps (Title12:Chp14) and check for clipping (if you have access to Avia PRO, the Deep Ramps are excellent tests!). Use the IRE setup setting that maintains as much data as possible through to your display. The default setting may more likely be the preferred setting. Default is usually the 7.5IRE setting. This was reported to be the case on the Denon 3910; users should test this on their players and share model-specific observations to aid others!

A very good sticky in the DVD section for the correct info about IRE and studio levels where the quotes are taken from--->
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=494606

Regards
Boogieman

installer08

06-27-05, 06:14 PM

Hey guys!
Just got my unit about two weeks ago and i'm very happy with it. I have one problem with it now and was wondering if anyone has an answer before I freak out. My 3910 is hooked up with digital coax and analoge out for DVD-A and SACD to my Denon AVR-4802r receiver. For some reason when I'm watching DVD's the sound seems to drop out for long periods of time.
It doesn't matter if it's Dolby Digital or DTS. I've tried every troubleshooting trick and cannot figure out why this happens. So, I turn to you guys to help with this problem. Maybe someone has expierienced this problem with the 3910. I'm starting to believe that it is a defective unit. Also, I know that upgrades seem to help alot of 3910 owners. My unit was manufactured Sept. 2004. As an A/V tech I normally have fixes for most problems, but this one is really bothering me.

pepar

06-27-05, 06:34 PM

JBaumgart

06-28-05, 12:36 AM

I would like to give public kudos to Jason here for helping me get DL3 working. I had not previously burned any of the previous updates myself but Jason was kind enough to email me the files and instructions, and it worked perfectly even using my old Roxio Easy CD Creator 5. I'm in 7th Heaven at the moment because I've been waiting for this ever since buying my 3805 and 3910 last summer. Sounds so much better than Ext-In on my system, this now opens up a whole new world in SACD shopping and listening for me.

Thanks again to Jason for helping me out!

installer08

06-28-05, 01:16 AM

JasonColeman

06-28-05, 01:39 AM

JBaumgart-

I'm glad to help out...you (and everyone else here) know how frustrated I was trying to get those damn files on disc! My apologies again for the momentary loss of reason and dignity.

Thanks goes (again!) to Burkerg and DigiPete for their generosity! It's nice to have friends out here!

BTW, DL3 is really fantastic, though I'm curious to see if Denon includes set-up/configuration instructions with the US update. I just want to make sure that I have my 3805/3910 combo configured optimally!

Jason

pepar

06-28-05, 09:24 AM

Pepar,
I have done everything. Analog seems to be o.k. When I got home from work I watched Anchorman and the sound did not cut out. For some reason the player seems not to like some DVD's. I understand if the discs were scratched or dirty, but I have a collection of about 1200 or so movies and all are in perfect condition. I guess I'll just keep playing until I figure out what the damn problem is. Well! Thanks for the reply Pepar, I will keep checking out the thread. I actually have an install next week and the client purchased the 3910. I will be playing with that unit during the course of the week and see if it happens on that player also.

Seems unlikely that you've got that many bad DVDs and the unaffected analog output supports that premise. The analog is not pasing a DD/DTS signal for external decoding, so perhaps it's an issue with that digital circuitry. Try your "worst" DVD on another 3910. Have you alerted your dealer?

Badabbing

06-28-05, 02:48 PM

Pepar,
I have done everything. Analog seems to be o.k. When I got home from work I watched Anchorman and the sound did not cut out. For some reason the player seems not to like some DVD's. I understand if the discs were scratched or dirty, but I have a collection of about 1200 or so movies and all are in perfect condition. I guess I'll just keep playing until I figure out what the damn problem is. Well! Thanks for the reply Pepar, I will keep checking out the thread. I actually have an install next week and the client purchased the 3910. I will be playing with that unit during the course of the week and see if it happens on that player also.

I had similar issues with recorded madia with my 3910. It played all factory media just fine but it had a real problem with inkjet printable and labled media. I have removed my lables and I no longer have freezing issues. Maybe related to the issue you're having.
:cool:
Cheers,

SC

GetGray

06-28-05, 03:04 PM

All my recorded media plays perfectly. And 90% of it is labelled. In my opinion, for recordable DVD's only a couple brands aren't total junk. Surprising as it was to me, several of the "name brand" disc are just relabeled extremly low quality discs. I literally threw away 2 50-disc canisters of Memorex discs becasue my concious wouldn't let me sell them to anyone who might put something important on them. I got a error checking program that will only run on a LiteOn burner (forget it's name), got a liteon drive just so I coudl use it. The only disc that weren't eaten alive with errors were the TY's, and Verbatims. I exclusively use Taiyo Yuden from rima.com and have never had a disc that won't read properly (labbeled or not). I use the more expensive mat finish Fellows brand labels.

Sam S

06-28-05, 03:19 PM

Shawners

06-28-05, 03:48 PM

Hey guy's,
I have to toot my horn..I've just ordered my 3910 a few minutes ago.I've been waiting for the refurbished units too show their head again at E-Cost.I got one with the 4 year extended warranty.I pray I don't get one that has the BTB problem or any other problem, hopefully Denon does a thorogh check on these before they resell them. :rolleyes:

I hope I don't have as hard a time as you had Jason, with the DL3 software update.( By the way you helped me out with some questions on my 3805 receiver around a year ago..Thanx)

Where do I get the NERO software, and how much $$ so I can burn the update disk..I've never done this before. :confused:

Thanx guy's............................Shawners

JasonColeman

06-28-05, 04:04 PM

Shawners-

You can download a trial version of Nero here: http://ww2.nero.com/enu/Nero_6_Reloaded_Demoversion.php and see if you like it. It has always worked flawlessly for me in the past, but for some reason (possibly stupidity) I couldn't burn the DL3 .iso files. I'd be glad to e-mail them to you ready for disc if you'd like or drop them in the mail (just across Ohio...). PM me if you're interested.

Congrats on the purchase! I'm sure you'll love it!

Jason

pepar

06-28-05, 04:35 PM

Where do I get the NERO software, and how much $$ so I can burn the update disk..I've never done this before. :confused:

Free with most DVD burners and mere dollars on eBay for the OEM version.

Burkerg

06-28-05, 05:12 PM

I have a question for 3805/3910 owners using DL3 for SACD. To prevent the receiver from converting DSD to PCM, you must use Direct Mode, correct? Is there any way to still use the receiver's bass management and channel level settings without converting to PCM? I don't have full range speakers for my mains, so going the Direct route causes me to miss a lot of the sound (but what is there sounds better than when converting to PCM). Thanks!
Rob

tor ove

06-28-05, 06:25 PM

My projector won't co-operate with Denon 3910 HDMi to HDMi. (BenQ 7700)
First I tried a 33 feet cable. The picture dropped out all the time.
Then used a DVI-HDMi adapter on the D3910, and the picture was fine.

Thought maybe the 33 feet cable was to long and loosing signal.
Returned it and got a 25 feet cable. Still no picture HDMi - HDMi.
Through the DVI-HDMi adapter it works, but then my Denon 3910 doesn't fit in my HT-setup cabinet due to the long adapter with cable in the back.

And the cable is a respectable brand with a respectable price.

tsteves

06-28-05, 06:46 PM

Burkerg
see here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5806411&&#post5806411) .

tsteves

06-28-05, 06:49 PM

tor ove
strange problem.
It may be as simple as just getting the stupid hdmi connector plugged in perfectly. These hdmi connectors can sometimes be a bit finicky to get plugged in right. Stupid connector imo.

Badabbing

06-28-05, 07:13 PM

Yes, like GetGray says, the media manufacturer (NOT just the brand of discs) will help determine what's best for your 3910.

I also use Taiyo Yuden DVD+R 8X. These are branded as FujiFilm DVD+R's 8X speed. Easily available at Best Buy. They do burn at 16X however with my burner. All have played flawlessly on my 3910.

I agree with you 100%, it is the mfg of the media and not the brand when you're talking about quality and like yourself I also use TY's -R 8x.
But even with TY's I have still experienced some freezing on a very few recorded DVD's. On those perticular DVD's I have removed the label and the problem went away. This leads me to believe the drive in the 3910 is very sensitive to either weight or out of balance condition that may be caused by the label on the discs. ;)
Just an FYI

SC

BenDover

06-28-05, 07:23 PM

installer08

06-28-05, 08:57 PM

Tor ove,
the HDMI on the 3910 has two settings, y, cb, cr and RGB. Some displays that have HDMI inputs will not accept the RGB setting. I took my 3910 to work a few days ago and plugged it in to the SIM2 HT500 E-link projector and could only get it to work on the HDMI Y, CB, CR setting. It's just a compatability issue. Also, check the menu on your projector and see if there are settings for the HDMI input. If that doesn't work, try and get the firmware upgrade from Denon's website and update your player. There is an upgrade for the HDMI on the 3910.

dinsdale66

06-28-05, 09:51 PM

Question for those using the European (Australian) version of the 3910:

Have there been any problems with the SCART/RGB output? My brand new player has two issues:

1. Doesn't output PLUGE (Blacker Than Black)
2. About 1/2 inch line of "false colour" along top edge of screen. This only happens when the SCART out is set to RGB. Not svideo or composite. And it doesn't happen when the setup screen is displayed, overlaying the video. Weird. The PLUGE bar is also visible when the setup screen is displayed.

It has firmware version 6609-9. I understand the latest is 6609-B (or is it 6609-9B). Any chance this would fix the RGB output problem?

Guess I will have to go back to the retailer, disappointing :-(

Audio output seems superb so far, although I am reduced to a stereo receiver for a while...

Any European/Australian users had similar SCART/RGB issues?

pepar

06-28-05, 10:20 PM

Guess I will have to go back to the retailer, disappointing :-(

This one sounds snake-bitten. With the video jumping around like that in and out of "setup", it's just too weird.

mjstonez

06-29-05, 09:30 AM

DigiPete

06-29-05, 09:34 AM

Well I tried the SACD DL3 firmware update, I thought I had burned the discs properly but it did not work. Disc 1 was "writing" for about an hour and never stopped. I am going to just reload the last version (I hope) when I get home today. This is very disappointing.

Disc 1 may have loaded.... try reinitializing your machine, then use the procedure to see what firmware you have.

Did you try discs 2 and 3?

Shawners

06-29-05, 10:26 AM

Jason,
thanks again for your help.
I'll try to download that demo of NERO and see if I can burn the updates,
I'll try those disk that some one posted a few post before my original.I'll have to learn sometime. :eek: I'f it turns out to be more than I can handel I may take up on your offer.If I do I'd be glad to paypal you something for your time and expense.
Thanks for all your help on these Denon threads..did you ever imagine that they would still be going strong. :cool:
..............................................Take care.................Shawners

mjstonez

06-29-05, 02:21 PM

Disc 1 may have loaded.... try reinitializing your machine, then use the procedure to see what firmware you have.

Did you try discs 2 and 3?

I did not think to try that, What makes you think it may have loaded?

I originally could not get the discs to burn so I buned them as image of .iso, I hope I did not scre it up!

Thanks.

mattbugz

06-29-05, 04:25 PM

I requested firmware be sent to me on Denon's site appx. three weeks ago. Does it usually take them a couple months to send out firmware upgrade disks??

shane55

06-29-05, 04:39 PM

Ok... here are a three quick, and maybe stupid questions that you 3910 owners should be able to answer without much stress. ;)

I am interested in buying a used 3910.

1) What mfg. dates will and/or won't pass BTB?

2) If I buy the unit, and find out that it does not pass BTB, what do I do? Will I need to send it to Denon (or a repair center), or is it a firmware update?

3) Will the DL-3 discs also contain all the firmware updates to this point?

Any other things to be aware / cautious of? (OK, that's 4, but this one is too non-specific to really count) :D

Thanks much!

shane

tor ove

06-29-05, 05:19 PM

1) What mfg. dates will and/or won't pass BTB?

2) If I buy the unit, and find out that it does not pass BTB, what do I do? Will I need to send it to Denon (or a repair center), or is it a firmware update?

3) Will the DL-3 discs also contain all the firmware updates to this point?

1. The ones manufactured before some time in august 04 and after oktober 04.
(Correct me here people)

2. It will need a "chip replacement" = Send it to denon service.

3. Yes, every new firm brings along older upgraded stuff.

tsteves

06-29-05, 06:46 PM

OK, I think I have a problem....
Denon link light is lit on 3910, DLINK is noted on 3805 and pressing status shows DLINK.
If I unplug my analog cables the sound goes off. Therefore my "Denon Link" is actually not there at all. I have been over my settings numerous times but can't find where I went wrong.
Blast! I seemed to me like it was working at first but I fiddled with some settings, and I think I messed it up. Now I've tried setting it up it over and over. No go.

DigiPete

06-29-05, 07:00 PM

DigiPete

06-29-05, 07:03 PM

I did not think to try that, What makes you think it may have loaded?

Thanks.

I thought I read some Denon instructions about what to do if the unit hangs, which have this type of reccomendation.

DCIFRTHS

06-29-05, 07:05 PM

Try jiggling the DL cable, I have had mine a little loose before.

Just a shot in the dark, but have you powered all components down, with the analog cables disconnected, and then powered back up?

billfish33

06-29-05, 07:17 PM

has any problems playing dual layer +r disks that I coppied for our weekend place ?.
My aging RP-91 won't play them at all,and actually locks up on me{I even tried the newer firmware ealier today 262}.
this is an expensive player,but I would be able to sell off my sony standalone 555es sacd player as well as the outlaw icbm along with shawn foggs switch and perhaps even the i-scan ultra to recoup at least some of the extra $ this unit will cost me.

only thing is,I gotta go component {at least for now}since I have the pioneer elite 510,I really need a nice player that won't have problems playing my dual layer +r media,sound great with SACD and dvd-audio.

could use some input on this !
thanks,

DigiPete

06-29-05, 07:27 PM

shane55

06-29-05, 08:17 PM

1. The ones manufactured before some time in august 04 and after oktober 04.
(Correct me here people)

2. It will need a "chip replacement" = Send it to denon service.

3. Yes, every new firm brings along older upgraded stuff.

Thanks tor ove.
One more, if you please.

Will this unit play DVD+/_R with MP3's or WMA's burned on them?

TIA!

shane

billfish33

06-29-05, 08:44 PM

Go to your nearest Denon dealer and try your discs out, that's the best way :)

I'm gonna do just ,it's the only way to be sure.

storminorm

06-29-05, 08:53 PM

MY 3910 WILL BE HERE TOMORROW....its been a long wait but that's another story.

Sam S

06-29-05, 09:13 PM

Thanks tor ove.
One more, if you please.

Will this unit play DVD+/_R with MP3's or WMA's burned on them?

TIA!

shane

Yes.

mattbugz

06-29-05, 10:59 PM

MY 3910 WILL BE HERE TOMORROW....its been a long wait but that's another story.

Man...I wouldn't be able to sleep in anticipation!! :)

longbow

06-29-05, 11:57 PM

nelson4u

06-30-05, 03:27 AM

[QUOTE=tor ove]1. The ones manufactured before some time in august 04 and after oktober 04.
(Correct me here people)

So are you saying the only players that pass BTB were produced only in Aug, Sept and Oct 04 ? Nothing before Aug or after Oct will pass BTB ? If Denon fixed the problem in the Aug players, why would they have problems again in the units made after Oct ? Seems like the problem should have been gone once it was corrected in AUG.

dinsdale66

06-30-05, 07:43 AM

2. About 1/2 inch line of "false colour" along top edge of screen. This only happens when the SCART out is set to RGB. Not svideo or composite. And it doesn't happen when the setup screen is displayed, overlaying the video. Weird.

Guess I will have to go back to the retailer, disappointing :-(

Looks like it's my TV. :o

The dealer is going to follow up with the local Denon people re the BTB issue and region free firmware.

mjstonez

06-30-05, 09:47 AM

WOW SACD over DL3 works, and works well! "New York, New York" by Ryan Adams and DSOTM never sounded so good.

Now for video, anyone have the 3910 hooked up to the JVC D-ILA and what are your settings or adjustments?

Can't wait for the 70" 1080P JVC with the 3910!

Thanks.

tor ove

06-30-05, 10:17 AM

So are you saying the only players that pass BTB were produced only in Aug, Sept and Oct 04 ? Nothing before Aug or after Oct will pass BTB ? If Denon fixed the problem in the Aug players, why would they have problems again in the units made after Oct ? Seems like the problem should have been gone once it was corrected in AUG.

No, sorry. My bad.
The other way around.
The ones produced in the gap from august to october 04 is boxed without BTB capabilities.

pepar

06-30-05, 10:34 AM

No, sorry. My bad.
The other way around.
The ones produced in the gap from august to october 04 is boxed without BTB capabilities.

I have an Aug '04 unit that works perfectly.

Steve Richards

06-30-05, 10:36 AM

I have an Aug '04 unit that works perfectly.
As do I...

pepar

06-30-05, 10:41 AM

As do I...

Without the BTB issue, this thread would probably be only half as long. 'Tis excellent for raising one's "posts." Add another to my count, please!

GetGray

06-30-05, 11:14 AM

My Aug build also passes. See or participate in the thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=513507

For the stats...

uzun

06-30-05, 12:42 PM

June is getting pretty short, wonder if DL3 will bea July event in the US.

Burkerg

06-30-05, 05:00 PM

Okay...I am trying frantically to find a 3910 that will pass BTB. I know that if the circles under the barcode on the box are not filled in, the unit is from the bad batch. I just called a dealer three hours away from me, and he said he has one with the circles that aren't filled in and one with no circles. Anyone have a clue what it means, if there are no circles? The dude thought I was absolutely insane for having him examine the circles on the box. Thanks for any insight.
Rob

BenDover

06-30-05, 05:06 PM

merc

06-30-05, 05:15 PM

I'm no expert, and haven't read this entire thread or other threads that might be dedicated to this issue, however, my unit was built in Aug '04, had no circles below the barcode, and DOES pass BTB. Well, that is good for you and for others with the same situation... BUT, very BAD for Denon since they are the folks who passed along this coding scheme to us. (insert EEK icon here)

Also, the circles without the manufacture date is probably misleading in some cases since the circles only started when Denon made the un-announced manufacturing change. Units before the change don't have any circles AND pass black just fine.

BTW, my unit without the code also passed BTB using Avia and VE but not using DVE... :(

RowdyUSP40

06-30-05, 05:19 PM

The dude thought I was absolutely insane for having him examine the circles on the box.
Rob

Well you know how much he knows.... :rolleyes:

keenan

06-30-05, 05:27 PM

BTW, my unit without the code also passed BTB using Avia and VE but not using DVE... :(
IIRC, the AVIA disc doesn't have a BTB test, while the DVE disc does. Not sure what VE is.

merc

06-30-05, 05:35 PM

tsteves

06-30-05, 06:05 PM

DigiPete, DCIFRTHS
Replacing the cable worked. I had jiggled and un/re-plugged the original denon cable, powered down, resetup dlink over and over, etc.
Thanks. Just threw in a cat5e cable I had laying around and turned it all back on. A very cheap fix... my favorite. I'm back in dlink land again. I could tell as soon as I put in a sacd, before I even unplugged the analog cables.
What bothers me is there's no way to know, without unplugging cables. The 3805 says dlink anyway.

storminorm

06-30-05, 06:05 PM

I RECEIVED MY 3910 A COUPLE HOURS AGO...hooked up dvi, I can't get it to stay on my dvi. When I go to dvi in my projector it stays for about 2 seconds and then goes to no signal. What would you say is wrong. I just disconnected my Bravo 1 and hooked up the 3910. For the brief seconds I see the menu displayed but then it goes right back to no signal. Must be a connection issue but What?? also did a search for various video settings...anyone have that link?

merc

06-30-05, 06:12 PM

Storminorm,

What display are you using? Is the DVI input on it HDCP compatable?

longbow

06-30-05, 06:53 PM

IIRC, the AVIA disc doesn't have a BTB test, while the DVE disc does. Not sure what VE is.

VE = Video Essentials.. The original Joe Kane discs for calibration

DVE = Digital Video Essentials, the new version...

pepar

06-30-05, 07:30 PM

Not sure what VE is.

Video Essential, the original test disc. First available on laser disc, and later on DVD.

Edited: Nevermind . .

pepar

06-30-05, 07:36 PM

Okay, since I own the Avia and the VE discs, and one of them does BTB, that's the one I referred to.....

Once I got the DVE disc, it showed that my unit did not pass BTB.

Additionally, I am using a DC-DA1 DVI to VGA converter, so, I am sure that that also may impact my calibration.

My lack of DVE BTB did NOT cause me to send it back to Denon... BTW.

OK, there's your mistake; you shouldn't have used DVE. :)

Seriously, how could one disc show it passed and another show it didn't? This is "binary" - yes or no, isn't it?

keenan

06-30-05, 07:38 PM

VE = Video Essentials.. The original Joe Kane discs for calibration

DVE = Digital Video Essentials, the new version...
That's what I thought but didn't want to make any assumptions, thanks. :)

storminorm

06-30-05, 07:38 PM

i HAVE A sim300+ PROJECTOR and I'm not sure if its HDCP compliant or not. using component I get a double screen???

storminorm

06-30-05, 08:08 PM

SIM 300+ SELECO if its not hdcp compliant then whats the next best way to go with the 3910?

DigiPete

06-30-05, 10:49 PM

DCIFRTHS

07-01-05, 12:04 AM

_XipHiaS_

07-01-05, 06:50 AM

BillP

07-01-05, 09:14 AM

Yes, THX does have an easy BTB test.

pepar

07-01-05, 09:25 AM

Two questions. Is the THX optimizer advanced test on The Incredibles DVD a good way to check the BTB/BLevel? http://www.thx.com/mod/products/dvd/incrediblesOptiEng.html
And, can the Denon Link cable have the same lengths that are allowed for network environments?

I'll second what BillP said; it is easy, extremely easy to use, and a real breeze to navigate to unlike ALL of the "official" test discs.

Mike2005

07-01-05, 02:16 PM

Yes, THX does have an easy BTB test.

I would be careful using the THX BTB test, though. My player clearly does not pass BTB when using DVE pluge pattern. When I use the THX Optimizer on the Star Wars DVD however, I do see a slight green drop shadow, which could be misinterpreted as passing BTB.

Mike

pepar

07-01-05, 02:51 PM

I would be careful using the THX BTB test, though. My player clearly does not pass BTB when using DVE pluge pattern. When I use the THX Optimizer on the Star Wars DVD however, I do see a slight green drop shadow, which could be misinterpreted as passing BTB.

Mike

Green? Isn't it a B&W (& silver) logo?

Mike2005

07-01-05, 03:31 PM

Green? Isn't it a B&W (& silver) logo?

Yes it should be, but if your player does not pass BTB than you can still see the THX drop shadow slightly, but its green instead of B&W. Here is a link to a page that discusses the problem. The page also has some pictures showing what I am talking about taken by someone with the same problems.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=513507&page=10&pp=20

Mike

pepar

07-01-05, 04:04 PM

Yes it should be, but if your player does not pass BTB than you can still see the THX drop shadow slightly, but its green instead of B&W. Here is a link to a page that discusses the problem. The page also has some pictures showing what I am talking about taken by someone with the same problems.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=513507&page=10&pp=20

Mike

Ah yes, green push.

I am astounded - blown away even - by the drama caused by this BTB issue. I am even MORE astounded that Denon would have made the deficient units without knowing it. But what really blows me away is that they don't fix them for FREE. I am so glad my unit passes BTB as I am quite sure I would devote my life and energies it a friggin' class action law suit if it didn't. Grrrrrrrr. :mad:

BillP

07-01-05, 04:53 PM

I am so glad my unit passes BTB :
That makes 2 of us. I was unhappy last year when I ended up with an early, June manufacturing date (I figured I wanted to give Denon a few months to iron out the kinks). Little did I know these early units would be better than the ones a few months later.

Mike2005

07-01-05, 04:58 PM

Ah yes, green push.

I am astounded - blown away even - by the drama caused by this BTB issue. I am even MORE astounded that Denon would have made the deficient units without knowing it. But what really blows me away is that they don't fix them for FREE. I am so glad my unit passes BTB as I am quite sure I would devote my life and energies it a friggin' class action law suit if it didn't. Grrrrrrrr. :mad:

Here in Germany at least Denon is offering to fix the BTB issue free of charge by returing the player to the dealer who will then send it to Denon.

tor ove

07-01-05, 06:30 PM

And that's how I got my player to display BTB here in Norway.
Delivered the D3910 to the store of purchase, got it BTB-upgraded and returned free og charge.

blazeby

07-01-05, 06:45 PM

Here in Germany at least Denon is offering to fix the BTB issue free of charge by returing the player to the dealer who will then send it to Denon.

I thought it was the same here in the US too - just send it in and they fix it free of charge.

Btw, I got a refurb 3910, with a 'bad' build date (Oct 04) and the circles on the box that theorize that it should not pass BTB. Mine, however, passes BTB with no problems.

RowdyUSP40

07-01-05, 11:59 PM

I thought it was the same here in the US too - just send it in and they fix it free of charge.

Btw, I got a refurb 3910, with a 'bad' build date (Oct 04) and the circles on the box that theorize that it should not pass BTB. Mine, however, passes BTB with no problems.

Maybe it was fixed in the refurb process? You would hope they would be doing that in the process.

pepar

07-02-05, 10:00 AM

Or maybe the circles thing swith respect to BTB is a figment of our imagination.

Mike2005

07-02-05, 11:21 AM

The problem in my view is that Denon has not come out yet with an official statement about the issues (BTB, green push). If you spent that amount on a player than they should let everyone know which players (serial no.) are affected, what the exact extent of the issues are and how to get them fixed. Currently there is a lot of speculation.

Mike

blazeby

07-02-05, 11:24 AM

Maybe it was fixed in the refurb process? You would hope they would be doing that in the process.

I agree that you would think they would have fixed it during the refurb process, that was one of the reasons I was confident buying a refurb in the first place.

bhollis

07-02-05, 05:20 PM

I've just ordered a 3910 from an e-tailer. It's on its way to me now, and I have no idea when it was built or whether it passes BTB. I'm a novice with this stuff, but as best I can tell from what I've read on this forum and elsewhere, it doesn't seem to me that whether or not my unit passes BTB is something I need to be particularly concerned about. Here's my reasoning:

If I understand this issue correctly, absolute black--i.e., the complete absence of light--is encoded on a DVD as level 16. So, the question is whether or not a particular player's analog output takes account of brightness levels encoded on a DVD at below level 16 (i.e. blacker than blacks). If it does, the player is said to pass BTB. If it doesn't--i.e, if the player's analog output signal "levels off" and "clips" anything below around level 16--the player is said to fail BTB.

However, if properly calibrated, a TV/display should be set such that level 16 as encoded on a DVD is displayed as absolute black. In other words, the display is calibrated such that it will fail to display any differences in brightness between levels 1 and 16--they'll all appear black regardless of any differences in output from the player. So, if the DVD player doesn't clip everything below level 16, the display effectively will. Moreover, since by definition nothing on the DVD should be any darker than level 16 (at least nothing you're supposed to see), it's hard to see how you're missing anything.

As best I can tell, the primary advantage of BTB is that it makes it easier to calibrate the display's black level. But once black level is properly set, whether not the player passes BTB wouldn't seem to have any discernable effect on the displayed image quality.

Now, tell me what I'm missing so I can go on worrying about this.

pepar

07-02-05, 05:38 PM

Mike2005

07-02-05, 06:28 PM

tonydeluce

07-03-05, 05:08 PM

I visited Ken Krane's "Big Screens" on Friday and the salesperson was nice
enough to hook up a Denon DVD-2910 to the new 52in. Mitsubishi 1080p DLP
and I definitely saw macroblocking. I suspect the set could be adjusted to
minimize this. I understand that the DVD-3910 uses the same scaler / conversion
chip.

Therefore I have personally observed macroblaocking on the

JVC D-ILA's
Mitsubishi 1080p DLPs

Has anyone ever observed macroblocking on Samsung DLPs?
Has anyone not seen macroblocking on Samsung DLPs?

hecubus

07-03-05, 06:16 PM

For those that have performed the DL3 upgrade, have you noticed a change in the
reaction time of DVD navigation? I just received my 3910/Iscan HD+ yesterday. I
performed the DL3 upgrade with no problems. Since the player was new, I didn't
take time to see how the player responded before hand. It seems that menu
navigation is really slow. I timed the layer change using Avia Pro and it clocked in
at a super slow 3 seconds. That doesn't match up with anything I have read about
this player. I am connecting to the Iscan using SDI.

I will say that the convenience and performance of DL3 is great. My 5803 never
sounded better.

Travis

Dave Vaughn

07-03-05, 06:23 PM

There should be no noticable layer change at all. Menu navigation has always been somewhat sluggish on the 3910 though.

pepar

07-04-05, 12:09 AM

There should be no noticable layer change at all. Menu navigation has always been somewhat sluggish on the 3910 though.

Depending on how artfully (or inartfully) it is done, it is slightly noticeable to not noticeable on my 3910. When I do notice it, it seems like less than one second - a half second maybe.

Dave Vaughn

07-04-05, 12:11 AM

The only time you "barely" notice a layer-change is when the layer change happens to happen at a chapter break. If the layer change is in the middle of a chapter, it is not noticable.

pepar

07-04-05, 12:26 AM

The only time you "barely" notice a layer-change is when the layer change happens to happen at a chapter break. If the layer change is in the middle of a chapter, it is not noticable.

Secrets of High Fidelity supports me (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all&type=DVD+Player&manufacturer=15&maxprice=0&deInt=0&mpeg=0) on the half second layer change time. Again, depending on how well they "hide" it, I can see a slight - .5 seconds (duh) - hesitation in the flow of the movie. Placed during a momentary fade to black, I can "sense" it sometimes, but not really see it.

Dave Vaughn

07-04-05, 12:46 AM

It is there about 5% of the time....I have watched close to 200 movies on my 3910 and have only noticed about 10 layer changes...in fact, I am quite surprised when there is a very "slight" pause.

DigiPete

07-04-05, 01:29 AM

It is there about 5% of the time....I have watched close to 200 movies on my 3910 and have only noticed about 10 layer changes...in fact, I am quite surprised when there is a very "slight" pause.

That's my experience too.

typrat

07-04-05, 10:24 AM

For those of you who've been waiting, the MR patch to apply to *after* the latest 3 disc update that enables the Denon Link 3 is available here:

www.sickpuppy.me.uk/DenonMR.zip for the MR file of the latest firmware
www.sickpuppy.me.uk/Denon.zip for the 3 cd's to upgrade to DL3
(The instructions for the non-MR upgrade are in the Denon.zip file)

as posted in the AV Forums:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1773163#post1773163

:)

DigiPete

07-04-05, 10:44 AM

OK guys, for those interested, I tried it and now I have both DL3 and MR:

www.sickpuppy.me.uk/DenonMR.zip for the MR file of the latest DL3 firmware

This link gets you several files, choose d31zsavd.cfw, and install as usual.

I believe you must first do the DL3 upgrade (www.sickpuppy.me.uk/Denon.zip)
then the MR firmware above.

DigiPete

DigiPete

07-04-05, 10:45 AM

echnaton

07-04-05, 10:46 AM

OK guys, for those interested, I tried it and now I have both DL3 and MR:

Very brave!!! THANK YOU! I'll will try it tonight when I get home! YIPPIE! :D

echnaton

07-04-05, 12:51 PM

I tried it, too. It worked and I now have both DL3 and MR enabled. The version did not change compared to my original DL3 upgrade kit.

ESS 6609-B
Make Day 413D
DRV 030825
System 6767-5
DSP 6770
C 20041028

YAY!! :D

By the way: When I did the DL3 update, the player did not open the tray automatically after the 3rd disc, even though it said '1394 Complete'. The instructions state that it should open automatically. After a few minutes I turned off the player and turned it back on. Everything seems fine.
Is this something to worry about? Has anyone seen the same thing?
Thanks!

Burkerg

07-04-05, 05:12 PM

DigiPete

07-04-05, 06:11 PM

By the way: When I did the DL3 update, the player did not open the tray automatically after the 3rd disc, even though it said '1394 Complete'. The instructions state that it should open automatically. After a few minutes I turned off the player and turned it back on. Everything seems fine.
Is this something to worry about? Has anyone seen the same thing?
Thanks!

If your unit is working fine I would not worry about it too much. You might reinitialize your player to make sure all the 1s and 0s are aligned properly after the update.

DigiPete :)

Daphoid

07-04-05, 08:21 PM

Well...I just got a unit that passes BTB. I drove three hours to a store in New Orleans to look at their units. They had two when I got there, but they were both from the defective period. However, their display unit was manufactured in June. Sold. Got it home, and it passes BTB. Problem, though...

Upon analyzing Finding Nemo, I'm noticing very swiftly flashing black lines in background images. Example...after Nemo gets stuck in the shell thing before going to school, Marlin is convinced that he's broken something. When Marlin is investigating Nemo's fin inside the "house," the lines flash in the background. Their easily visible against the orange tentacles.

Any ideas what kind of picture abnormality this could be? I'm about to hook up the other 3910 (one without BTB), so I can look for the lines on it. What do you guys think? I can't seem to get a break with these things.

Thanks,
Rob

Edit: Well...it looks like it might be a problem with orangey-yellows. I just saw the problem again in the sky when Marlin is chasing the boat. It looks as tough the sun is setting, so the clouds are an orangish-yellow, similar to the color of the tentacles of the anemone earlier. Or perhaps this is just where it's easiest for me to see the problem. Any thoughts on what this might be? Might I have damaged the HDMI cable upon switching out the units? What do you think? Thanks.

You sir are the most anal DVD buying geek I have EVER encountered....

I remember back in the day "Hey I want a DVD player, I have what, $250? *goes to store* hey this is a good brand name, reads lots of disc types? Sweet it has component and s-video too, woot! *buys player*"

^_^. I just cant phatham going thus nuts over a player. My current player is BORROWED from a buddy of mine, it has component video, and optical out so I can use 5.1 with my AVR 3805 and I'm happy. Either you have the greatest projector and 20/20 vision and sit like 2 ft from the screen LOOKING for defects.... or you're just having horrible luck with a 3910 :(.

I hope I have better luck. I plan to go to a store 1 hour away (closest place that carries them) and ask for a Denon DVD-3910 in Silver. Should I even give a damn and ask them to open the box for me so I can check these precious dots? What do you guys say?

kevinca1

07-04-05, 08:28 PM

The circles and block dots are on the outside. So you can see them on the box. So is the build date.

Daphoid

07-04-05, 08:32 PM

Now what exactly should I be looking for?

kevinca1

07-04-05, 08:33 PM

Two black circles filled in on the box. Not the big one on the corner of the box.

Daphoid

07-04-05, 08:35 PM

date?

kevinca1

07-04-05, 08:37 PM

June july and some augus of last year i know of do pass it. I am not sure of other dates im sure some one else can commmet further on the dates. Not sure if there is a concensouis on the dates or not.

Daphoid

07-04-05, 09:29 PM

Alright, but mainly two black filled in circles is what I'm after. and I'm thinking HDMI or Component for video, and either Optical or DL3 for audio?

kevinca1

07-04-05, 09:36 PM

That is correct. I would use HDMI if you have it at your displays native resolution, DL3 can be used for everything. So if you want to save time and ease use only dl3. You will only have to plug in that and be done.

Daphoid

07-04-05, 09:39 PM

kevinca1

07-04-05, 10:03 PM

I would get a switcher. That way you can use all your hdmi devices.

tonydeluce

07-04-05, 10:06 PM

The only real problem I'm going to have is my TV has two HDMI inputs on the back. When the Playstation 3 comes out with HDMI, which will I demote to Component? DVD Player? HD PVR Cable Box? PlayStation 3?

They're all worth the digital connection!

Play Station 3 is suppose to support 1080p60fps which no HDMI input on
any TV out today supports. So I would put in on the vga connection via a high
quality vga cable as long as your TV has a vga input. Some TVs out today
have vga inputs that support 1080p60fps.

This is the way I am going to go. Which leaves one HDMI for statelite box,
one for upconverting dvd player. I guess when High-Def DVD comes out
I will be swapping the HDMI cable between my two DVD players or be
buying a HDMI 2 to 1 switch.

Daphoid

07-04-05, 10:11 PM

My PC is getting the VGA connection for web surfing, odd gaming, and watching of funny flash cartoons on big TV :D

1920x1080p for the PC on the VGA connection.

SO it looks like a HDMI switch for me! however I'll leave that for next years wallet spending.

- D

kaduku

07-04-05, 10:14 PM

Play Station 3 is suppose to support 1080p60fps which no HDMI input on
any TV out today supports.

This sucks! I have a Qualia 006 made by Sony which is a 1080p set, but does not accept 1080p signals. :(

Daphoid

07-04-05, 10:16 PM

This sucks! I have a Qualia 006 made by Sony which is a 1080p set, but does not accept 1080p signals. :(

"Quote:
Originally Posted by Meridian27
I know the 6168 is not supposed to have 1080p inputs only 1080i, but does any one know if the 15 pin D-Sub PC connector could be used to introduce 1080p, by using a HTPC?

Yes, it can.LINK (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4954868#post4954868) "
- D

tonydeluce

07-04-05, 10:48 PM

None of the current 1080p sets do. Although it's rumored that the samsung's VGA port can accept a 1080p signal, or maybe it's 1080i.....

EITHER WAY, it should look awesome, and maybe they'll have a firmware update, you never know!

- D

The new Samsung 1080p sets are speced to accept 1080p60fps on the vga
input...

Daphoid

07-04-05, 10:51 PM

Haha I made you look foolish by editing my own post before you *grins*

but yes I was unsure, did some digging, then updated.

So far all! THe new Sammy's have 1080p over VGA, yay.

- D

echnaton

07-05-05, 05:45 AM

If your unit is working fine I would not worry about it too much. You might reinitialize your player to make sure all the 1s and 0s are aligned properly after the update.

Yep, did that, just to make sure. All seems fine and SACD over DL3 sounds awesome. Thanks :)

Sam S

07-05-05, 08:12 AM

echnaton

07-05-05, 01:57 PM

A question for 3910 owners with a copy of Elton John's "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road SACD":

Any of you had issues with the second disc of this set having brief sound dropouts on the 5.1 track? Was listening to this yesterday and could get a few tracks to dropout at the exact same time/track, but it wasn't alway repeatable if I took the disc out. Disc is completely free of scratches. Unable (yet) to duplicate the problems with other discs.

I have this SACD and I have not noticed any droupouts yet. Although I have not listened to it with the new DL3/ML firmware yet. So far I have only tried the first disc. Will put it in now and will let you know if I notice anything.

Sam S

07-05-05, 02:14 PM

I have this SACD and I have not noticed any droupouts yet. Although I have not listened to it with the new DL3/ML firmware yet. So far I have only tried the first disc. Will put it in now and will let you know if I notice anything.

Please do! Dropouts would start to occur after about 30 minutes or so, enough time for it to get warmed up.

Shawners

07-05-05, 05:08 PM

Hey Guys,
received my 3910 last friday.Been playing it all week-end. :D

Looking for some set-up tips.I'll be using componet inputs on my Mits WS 55805, HD ready RPTV,ISF calibrated.I've missed place my AVIA dvd, so I've been tweaking with the THX optimizer....I'm happy to report It pass BTB..yeah

It seems Audioholics and Secrets differ on leaving it in auto1 or auto2 mode??The H and V enhancements..what do I look at to fine tune these. Also the mid and high sharpness , I've tweaked with the optimizer , but do either help in background enhancement.
The first movie I watched was the "Jacket", it looked/sounded great.
Are most of you guys using the DL for sound on DVD's or analog/external ins??

Thanx ...............................Shawners

echnaton

07-05-05, 05:34 PM

Please do! Dropouts would start to occur after about 30 minutes or so, enough time for it to get warmed up.

Okay...I have listened to it twice now and there wasn't a single glitch. Just restarted it after the last song :) I really like the 5.1 mix of this SACD, I think it is well done. My SACD is the U.S. release, I bought it in New York around March.

How old is yours? Can you maybe exchange it?

Sam S

07-05-05, 05:46 PM

Okay...I have listened to it twice now and there wasn't a single glitch. Just restarted it after the last song :) I really like the 5.1 mix of this SACD, I think it is well done. My SACD is the U.S. release, I bought it in New York around March.

How old is yours? Can you maybe exchange it?

Well I got it the day it came out.. sometime last year. It's really weird. I read about some folks on the Secrets Forum having the same issue/same disc on their 5900's. If it happens with another disc, then I'll get concerned.

longbow

07-05-05, 06:01 PM

Well, I installed the new firmware and there it was on the setup menu... Denon Link 3! :D

I have just finished listening to DSOTM in Pure Direct multi channel SACD via Denon Link and it was wonderful.

Just in time for Sony to waffle on SACD in the future... :(

longbow

07-05-05, 06:18 PM

Well, now that the new firmware is in place I am at the pinnacle of 3910ness.

I have a 3910 that has Denon Link 3, passes BTB and flows through a 3805 via Pure Direct for pure digital sound. It outputs HDMI at 720p through a Sony HS51 so no macro blocking, just beautiful video.

I may actually be able to just watch a movie now and not wonder what I need to upgrade next....

.....

um....

For awhile anyways...:D

pepar

07-05-05, 06:30 PM

Well, now that the new firmware is in place I am at the pinnacle of 3910ness.

I have a 3910 that has Denon Link 3, passes BTB and flows through a 3805 via Pure Direct for pure digital sound. It outputs HDMI at 720p through a Sony HS51 so no macro blocking, just beautiful video.

Silent agreement from those of us who are equally blessed, but disheartenment and contempt from the rest of us. :D

tsteves

07-05-05, 06:31 PM

Dave Vaughn, DigiPete
have only noticed about 10 layer changes
Man, you guys have got to put down the clipboards when watching movies!

longbow
I may actually be able to just watch a movie now and not wonder what I need to upgrade next....
yes.... for a month or two.....

IwantmyTHX

07-05-05, 08:57 PM

DigiPete

07-05-05, 08:59 PM

Dave Vaughn, DigiPete

Man, you guys have got to put down the clipboards when watching movies!

.....
Not me, I don't take notes. Just poor DVD transfers are my only pet peeve.

Dave Vaughn

07-05-05, 09:25 PM

I review DVD's for ***************.com, so I have to take notes...if not, then the reviews are too hard to write!

longbow

07-05-05, 11:04 PM

You should try to auction it off now. :p

I am putting it in the middle of a circle of candles first...:D

uzun

07-05-05, 11:17 PM

Has Denon officially released the DL3 update for US customers?

Stan Rozenfeld

07-06-05, 04:51 AM

I am not sure if I am imagining it or not. My brother (who has an identical system) and my wife do not notice anything wrong. I've had my receiver for six years, so I don't think it's that. My Denon 3910 is connected via coax digital to the Marantz SR-18 receiver, and via dvi 720p to my Samsung TV. Since 3910 is my newest component, I was wondering if anyone else noticed lip sync with 3910 or have there been any tests regarding this issue.

I am currently inclined to put it all on some sort of psychological aberration of someone who is so anal that he is looking at actor's mouths while they are talking... lol :-)

By the way, can anyone suggest some decisive way which I can test if there is lip sync or not?

DigiPete

07-06-05, 09:05 AM

Has Denon officially released the DL3 update for US customers?

No. Nor did I wait when it became available elsewhere :)

DigiPete

07-06-05, 09:08 AM

By the way, can anyone suggest some decisive way which I can test if there is lip sync or not?

Avia has a test which shows a pattern which switches bak and forth from black to white and has a beep when it switches so you can see if the audio-visual are synched up. DVE, I think, also has something like this.

You did not mention if the sync is with your TV sound, or your stereo sound.

DigiPete

07-06-05, 09:11 AM

Has anyone noticed Y/C delay using HDMI 1080i, but no Y/C delay using HDMI 480i or 720P? I'm using a Toshiba DLP.

DigiPete

BillP

07-06-05, 10:34 AM

I was wondering if anyone else noticed lip sync with 3910 or have there been any tests regarding this issue.

can anyone suggest some decisive way which I can test if there is lip sync or not?
The best way to know is just to look (it is pretty obvious if it occurs). No, I have not noticed it with my 3910. There are excellent settings for audio, including speaker distances, so you should be able to adjust for it.

porshah

07-06-05, 10:49 AM

I noticed it in my 3910. I adjusted the audio delay in my Anthem Pre/Pro. I found that if I set the speaker distances in both the DVD player and my Pre/Pro, it was more noticeable. So I set the distances in Pre/Pro only. Also do the BM in the Pre/Pro also.

tor ove

07-06-05, 01:09 PM

Denon 3910 gave me lipsyn failure with Infocus X1. A correction of 150 ms was the remedy.
Now after installing BenQ 7700 through HDMi there is no lipsync adjustments needed.

Stan Rozenfeld

07-07-05, 03:17 AM

Thanks to everyone for their feedback. Just to clarify, I have both analog and digital connection to my Marantz receiver. However, I only use digital (coax) connection for watching movies, so this is where the problem is (if there is a problem), and I use the analog connection for music. I don't think that the speaker distance settings in 3910 matter in this case, because compressed bitstream is sent to the receiver for the decoding.

However, I never noticed this problem before 3910. I am wondering if there is some sort of video delay (relative to audio) because the player is deinterlacing and upscaling to 720p.

Unfortunately my old receiver doesn't have audio delay function, but I suppose I could play around with the speaker distances on the receiver.

I have digital video essentials, so I hope I can find the test that's similar to avia that will give me decisive answer to this. I just don't want to rely on DVDs that I am not sure were properly mastered.

Now... I have a rather stupid thought, but I'll take a chance and spill it here. Can there be some sort of psychological effect to all of this. I mean if you're always looking at people's mouths while they are talking, you can almost 'produce' the out of sync effect in your own mind. Sorry if this is far fetched, but it's just something that I've been wondering about.

Anyway, back to the real world... aside from digital video essentials, are there any dvds that are well synced in terms of audio and video... for instance would Lord of the Rings Ext. Editions do as a test? Or how about Star Wars original trilogy?

Finally, how do you translate ms delay into feet?

By the way, it's largely due to this thread that I decided to go with Denon 3910, and aside for the above problem, I could not be happier. For the first time in years, I've started again listening to and building my music collection. Thanks a lot everyone!

thrstr1

07-07-05, 07:57 AM

my 3910 should be arriving any day now.
when I decided to get this unit a few weeks ago I imagined that I could just hook up with my new 3805 (via denon link), run an HDMI to my Panasonic plasma and kick back and enjoy. My optimism has been tempered after poking through these threads though.
I've located the link for the DL3 upgrade:
- is this something I should pursue at this point? (or should I wait for something official from denon?).
- can I expect any macro-green-blocking-pushing on my Panasonic 50PHD7UY (with HDMI hookup)?
- I'm wondering about my audio, I'm planning to get sound from the 3910 to the 3805 via DL3, and video via HDMI, I suspect it won't be that simple.
- then there's the HD satellite input. I hope to run a separate HDMI from that box to the Panny for vid (the display will have 2 HDMI inputs), and component cables to the 3805 for audio.

it looked good on paper, but it appears that nothing is that simple.

*I'm still banging my head over the 3805 bi-amping. It sounds awesome when the volume is set just right. Unfortunately, the high (main amp) and low frequency (zone3 amp) volume controls are independent of each other. I guess that's one for another forum.

I'm sure I'll be begging for advice (with plenty 'o frustrated-looking emoticons) within a week. Until then . . . .

DigiPete

07-07-05, 09:20 AM

I've located the link for the DL3 upgrade:
- is this something I should pursue at this point? (or should I wait for something official from denon?).

and component cables to the 3805 for audio.
. . . .

I would do the upgrade without a second thought. Just make sure you get a good download, and verify your burned disc( burning software compares the burned disc to the source files to make sure they are the same).

Component cables to the 3805 for 'video' (I think this is what you meant). The HDMI will get audio to your display, for times when you don't want to engage the sound system, but just want to listen to sound from the TV.

DigiPete

DigiPete

07-07-05, 09:21 AM

Can anyone help me with this? Anyone?

Has anyone noticed Y/C delay using HDMI 1080i, but no Y/C delay using HDMI 480i or 720P? I'm using a Toshiba DLP.

DigiPete

PooperScooper

07-07-05, 09:48 AM

Could be worse and 720p has the problem. One wouldn't use 1080i into a DLP that is 720p native anyway. So if you don't see it, is there really a problem? :)

larry

keenan

07-07-05, 12:45 PM

Finally, how do you translate ms delay into feet?

There's a lot of variables, like temp, humidity, frequency and altitude but, 1 ms translates to about 1 linear foot.

echnaton

07-07-05, 03:55 PM

Since 3910 is my newest component, I was wondering if anyone else noticed lip sync with 3910 or have there been any tests regarding this issue.

Actually...I have noticed lip sync problems before, but not reproducible and not consistent. I felt that it was more noticeable with my Region 1/NTSC DVDs than with the Region 2/PAL ones that I bought here in Europe. My player was Region 2 originally and is now MR.

After I read your post, I tested a few NTSC/Region 1 and I noticed nothing. Maybe it is imagination here also, but maybe it is also the new firmware. I don't know.

By the way, I am not totally thrilled about the NTSC/PAL conversion of my 3910. Sometimes I see very noticeable distortion in the picture when playing back NTSC DVDs in PAL mode (e.g. when there is a fast camera move). In comparison my SONY CRT does a better job. So I keep my player setting on MULTI.

echnaton

07-07-05, 04:09 PM

While I am here...I am wondering if anybody has an opinion about the performance of the new AVR-4806 from Denon (called AVC-A11XV here in Europe) in combination with the 3910.

I currently own an AVR-5803 with the "A" upgrade (still offered here as AVC-A1SRA for a much higher MSRP than the 4806). I am wondering if I should sell the 5803A while it is still worth something and get the 4806 instead.

I know I would get a shipload of new features. But how about audio performance? Any experience anybody? Opinions?

THANK YOU!

DigiPete

07-07-05, 04:47 PM

Could be worse and 720p has the problem. One wouldn't use 1080i into a DLP that is 720p native anyway. So if you don't see it, is there really a problem? :)

larry

Picture actually looks better using 1080i and the DLP owners manual says the same.

Using Avia test patterns I noticed the Y/C delay for 1080i but not for 720p/480p over HDMI.

I wonder if others see the same thing? I don't know if there is a problem. If there were no Y/C delay using 1080i over HDMI would the picture look even better?

DigiPete

tsteves

07-07-05, 05:40 PM

DigiPete
"Picture actually looks better using 1080i and the DLP owners manual says the same."
Rather odd... Any idea why?

echnaton
"I am wondering if I should sell the 5803A while it is still worth something and get the 4806 instead."
With your money I'm upgrading! Even if just for the future connectivity options and new options.

DigiPete

07-07-05, 07:03 PM

[QUOTE=tsteves]DigiPete
"Picture actually looks better using 1080i and the DLP owners manual says the same."
Rather odd... Any idea why?

Not really.

tsteves

07-07-05, 07:36 PM

DigiPete

07-07-05, 08:31 PM

Good answer. There's been some debate about this kind of issue. I take the side of case by case (equipment related) issue.
I might be able to check my y/c delay over the weekend, but it maybe display related?

Yes, I'd be curious to see if many others have the same issue, if so, it may be 3910 related. Although I would not discount it being a display issue.

DigiPete

Yogi69

07-08-05, 05:17 AM

Thanks to the people in this thread and the other boards I was directed to from here...

I have D-Link 3 working and SACDs sound even better now than via good quality analogue cables.

I highly recommend the time and trouble to burn all 4 CDs (the latter to convert back to multiregion).

I loved my 3805/3910 combo before but now we are inseperable! :)

nakhter

07-10-05, 06:53 PM

I have 2 questions related to the firmware upgrade document :

Question 1:

The document says
"AFTER THIS UPGRADE THE PLAYER IS IN REGION 2 MODE!!!"

What does this mean ? Would I still be able to play region 1 DVDs or
this makes it region free.

Question 2:

I would have to do the 3CDs upgrade first and then the MR or it make
no difference which one first.

Thanks

DigiPete

07-10-05, 07:28 PM

I have 2 questions related to the firmware upgrade document :

Question 1:

The document says
"AFTER THIS UPGRADE THE PLAYER IS IN REGION 2 MODE!!!"

What does this mean ? Would I still be able to play region 1 DVDs or
this makes it region free.

After the 3 disc upgrade your machine would be in its native region code (i.e. region 1 for a US machine)

Question 2:

I would have to do the 3CDs upgrade first and then the MR or it make
no difference which one first.

Thanks

I think if you want multi-region and Denon Link 3, you use the3 disk denon link upgrade, and then
the multiregion disc.

Although you may be able to substitute the multiregion disc instead of the Denon link 3 upgrade disc 1, then the denon link 3 discs 2&3 and still get the same result (but I have not tried it this way).

Yogi69

07-10-05, 11:45 PM

The reason it says "AFTER THIS UPGRADE THE PLAYER IS IN REGION 2 MODE!!!" is because the files were intended for the European 3910s which were Region 2 only (unless the owner applied the multiregion patch).
AFTER the 3 ISOs are done, your Region 1 (or previously patched multiregion) 3910 will revert back to it's original designated region.
If you want to have the capability to play any region discs (and why wouldn't you?) just use the MR disc LAST and presto you have both D-Link3 and multi region.
Don't forget to go into the setup of your 3805 and select D-Link 3. Then you can remove those analogue cables and listen to SACDs which sound even clearer and with a wider soundstage. I am soooo happy with my DLink3. :D

Burkerg

07-11-05, 01:07 AM

pepar

07-11-05, 08:50 AM

If you want to have the capability to play any region discs (and why wouldn't you?) just use the MR disc LAST and presto you have both D-Link3 and multi region.

Why wouldn't you? If you don't have anything other than region 1 discs and/or, ESPECIALLY, if you do not want to go through the drama that people go through in applying non-intended firmware. That's why.

:)

pepar

07-11-05, 08:52 AM

Okay...my 3910 just quit outputting video for around 3 seconds while I was watching a movie. The screen blacked out and displayed "Video 7," and then it came back on. Has anyone else had this happen? I'm just freaking out and hoping this will not become a common problem. Thanks!
Rob

Had any storms recently that could have scrambled its innards? Re-initialize. Moved it around recently? Check your connections. (Check your connections anyway.)

JasonColeman

07-11-05, 09:31 AM

Don't forget to go into the setup of your 3805 and select D-Link 3. Then you can remove those analogue cables ...
Also, don't forget to remove the DenonLink2 (S.E.) sticker from the back of your 3910...just like the instructions say to! Mine didn't work until I 86'd that darn sticker! :D

Jason (also loving his DL3, but appalled with Denon USA for continuing to drop the ball on this upgrade)

ssabripo

07-11-05, 09:41 AM

Since I don't have a 3805 or 4806 (i'm still running my good 'ol Yamaha DSP-A1), do I really gain anything with doing the DL3 upgrade?

Yogi69

07-11-05, 09:53 AM

Why wouldn't you? If you don't have anything other than region 1 discs and/or, ESPECIALLY, if you do not want to go through the drama that people go through in applying non-intended firmware. That's why.

Hmm drama in applying non-intended firmware? what drama? non-intended? ???
I don't know what you mean???? Denon multiregion firmware is for Denon machines - do you mean that because you may have bought a player stuck with one region you don't have the right to modify it? HM don't some ppl buy identical units from overseas?

Anyway my point is simply that there isn't any particular region that has the best discs - sometimes it is R1, R2 or R4 - hit and miss. I am in R4 territory (PAL) and sometimes we miss out on a lot of extras that the R1 (NTSC) version has and viceversa. If you are a person who hires their DVDs and is not interested in collecting/buying DVDs then R1 is what you get and you are missing out on many unavailable and superior releases.

Burkerg

07-11-05, 10:25 AM

Had any storms recently that could have scrambled its innards? Re-initialize. Moved it around recently? Check your connections. (Check your connections anyway.)

We did just move it last night. What would that affect? All the cables are connected tightly and properly, if that's what you're suggesting. Thanks for your help.

Rob

pepar

07-11-05, 03:05 PM

Hmm drama in applying non-intended firmware? what drama? non-intended? ???
I don't know what you mean???? Denon multiregion firmware is for Denon machines - do you mean that because you may have bought a player stuck with one region you don't have the right to modify it? HM don't some ppl buy identical units from overseas?

Anyway my point is simply that there isn't any particular region that has the best discs - sometimes it is R1, R2 or R4 - hit and miss. I am in R4 territory (PAL) and sometimes we miss out on a lot of extras that the R1 (NTSC) version has and viceversa. If you are a person who hires their DVDs and is not interested in collecting/buying DVDs then R1 is what you get and you are missing out on many unavailable and superior releases.

My intention was not to disagree with your point, it was to answer your - perhaps rhetorical - question. I do regularly buy DVDs and they are all region 1. As I do not have time to watch all that I have and still maintain all of the other activities in life, I don't care about what I might be "missing." Ergo, as I do not watch anything but region 1, I do not need MR firmware.