All connected via DL3. The conditioner corrects dips and spikes. Acoustic Research power conditioners do not correct dips or spikes. For that you need voltage stabilization. You have some bigtime power problems.

How about a dedicated outlet? or you could try one of these ;)
http://www.monstercable.com/images_db/power/avs_2000_signature_glam_top.jpg

Ahem...that looks nice. And that costs....how much? lol.

$1699 retail ;)

I'll pass, thanks. lol. Anything in the sub $400 range?

How about a power backup UPS? You can get all kinds of these from all kinds of manufacturers. They generally level out voltage irregularities. There are lots of other power products which do some things which could be hepful.

An electrician who you trust is my suggestion in your case.

...

Do you dream about getting the Oppo instead?

then you can deal with a whole host of other problems...hey, maybe the lip sync problem would go away with the voltage drops :)

APC has a new unit coming out that is targeted for home electronics instead of computer equipment (that is where the pure sine wave comes in) but i believe they also have some other models that also offer pure sine wave output (the smart ups series, i think).

The surge protector/power conditioner is grounded.

if the receiver is plugged into a "conditioned" outlet on the power conditioner and yet still gives you an audible pop when your major appliances kick on, doesn't seem like it is doing its job of conditioning the power :)

A dedicated circuit from the main service panel is the most economical and highest performance return for the money that you can do. You may find that you don't even need any voltage regulators and such. I put one in at my place and I get zero noise, zero hum and zero voltage problems.

Keenan's absolutely right (again...you bastard! :D). You really need a dedicated circuit (20 amp) for your HT. When we had our house built, our builder was like, "What...? A whole circuit for your TV?" Yep...it's a must. It shouldn't be too expensive to run (maybe $250-300 depending on the electrician and your circuit panel) or you could do it yourself for about $50-75 (again depending on your current (pun intended) circuit panel). It's very easy to do if you've got a couple of hours and a couple of tools and a bit of know-how. We ran ours and have a 2-gang box with a total of 4 outlets and another pair of outlets about 2 feet on either side. These are the only outlets on the circuit, so it's never interrupted by other devices or appliances turning on/off. And 20 amps should be plenty for your HT needs, unless you're Tom Grooms! :D

Jason

Keenan's absolutely right (again...you bastard! :D). You really need a dedicated circuit (20 amp) for your HT.

It shouldn't be too expensive to run (maybe $250-300 depending on the electrician and your circuit panel) or you could do it yourself for about $50-75 (again depending on your current (pun intended) circuit panel). It's very easy to do if you've got a couple of hours and a couple of tools and a bit of know-how.

You might want to pass on the do it yourself wiring. No point in burning down your house and your neighbors on both sides of you. :)

I do agree a dedicated line may resolve your problems but lets keep kicking this around before you start tearing out drywall.

There's no need for tearing out drywall, and unless you're an absolute moron you're not going to burn down your house running a length of 12-2 NMB wire. It's really an easy process and you can save yourself a lot of money by doing it yourself. After all, the electrician makes $80-100 as soon as he/she pulls into your driveway...

If other appliances/etc are "tripping" your HT, you need to isolate it on its own circuit.

Jason

Thanks for all your help, guys! I'm renting this place and only plan to be here a year, so I hope I don't have to hire an electrician to permanently modify anything. That will be a last resort. I just returned from Best Buy, where I bought a $200 Belkin Pure A/V power conditioner. This is what I got:

http://catalog.belkin.com/PureAV_detail.process?Product_Id=178938

I haven't hooked it up, yet. Just walked in the door. What do you guys think? They also had this:

http://catalog.belkin.com/PureAV_detail.process?Product_Id=163009

There were several $200 Monster products as well. Any thoughts? Thanks again for all the help!

Rob

Unfortunately, if you're having severe voltage drops, neither of those units are going to help much.

Can you isolate separate circuits in the apartment? Do you have access to the breaker box? Try finding a circuit that doesn't have anything on it, and plug your HT equipment only into it and try that.

The thing is though, I can't imagine you're having such a voltage drop that it would effect the 3910, I suspect something is amiss with the 3910.

Can you isolate separate circuits in the apartment? Do you have access to the breaker box? Try finding a circuit that doesn't have anything on it, and plug your HT equipment only into it and try that.

I'm kind of an idiot when it comes to things like this. How would I go about doing this? I do have access to the breaker box, but I don't know how to plug my equipment into the unused circuits. How do I determine which circuits go with which outlets? Don't laugh...I'm not exactly a "handy" guy. I cannot express how much I appreciate you guys. Thank you.

Rob

This is kind of interesting, but the other day we had some pretty fierce storms here (maybe you saw the planes being tossed around our local airport) and we had a couple of power dips. We've got a TrippLite Isobar that all of our gear is plugged into and we lost power for just a second...long enough for our 3805 to go through the power-up process, but our 3910 didn't miss a beat... Apparently, the protective circuitry in the 3805 is much more sensitive than that in the 3910 because I was still humming the song when it cut out and 6 or 7 seconds later when the 3805 kicked back in, we we're still in sync.

Odd,

Jason

I'm kind of an idiot when it comes to things like this. How would I go about doing this? I do have access to the breaker box, but I don't know how to plug my equipment into the unused circuits. How do I determine which circuits go with which outlets? Don't laugh...I'm not exactly a "handy" guy. I cannot express how much I appreciate you guys. Thank you.

Rob
Rob-

You can get a circuit tester (4 bucks) and plug it into an outlet and go switch off breakers/fuses until you're able to get a sense of what outlets/lights are on which circuits. Try to find a lighting circuit with a couple of outlets on it and plug your HT into that...there's not much draw or dips/drops with lighting so you should be ok. Maybe the landlord/super can help as far as a panel diagram or labels (wishful thinking).

Jason

The trial and error way works pretty good. Turn off all the breakers except one and then go around with a lamp and plug it into each outlet. If it lights you'll know that it's the circuit you have on. Try it on every outlet and scratch out a diagram of the apartment with what outlets are on that circuit. After you have that, turn that breaker off and turn another on and repeat the process until you know which outlets are on each circuit. Once you have that diagrammed, try and find a circuit that you can use for the HT stuff without anything else on it. You may need to run some extension cords for things like lamps or clocks to put them on another circuit other than the HT circuit you decide to use.

The problem with an apartment is that you are at the mercy of whatever everyone else is doing in the building, but getting all the HT equipment on one circuit by itself should help.

Well, I had the equipment hooked to the circuit with all the kitchen appliances. Moved to a different one with little on it. Flipping on a ceiling fan still causes the audio to cut out. Do you guys think this is a problem with the equipment? I'm at a loss.

Keenan's absolutely right (again...you bastard! :D). You really need a dedicated circuit (20 amp) for your HT. When we had our house built, our builder was like, "What...? A whole circuit for your TV?" Yep...it's a must. It shouldn't be too expensive to run (maybe $250-300 depending on the electrician and your circuit panel) or you could do it yourself for about $50-75 (again depending on your current (pun intended) circuit panel). It's very easy to do if you've got a couple of hours and a couple of tools and a bit of know-how. We ran ours and have a 2-gang box with a total of 4 outlets and another pair of outlets about 2 feet on either side. These are the only outlets on the circuit, so it's never interrupted by other devices or appliances turning on/off. And 20 amps should be plenty for your HT needs, unless you're Tom Grooms! :D

Jason

I ran two 20 amp circuits for my HT. I live in a co-op, and the main reason I ran them is that I bought a B&K amp - seven channels at 200 wpc. I am very cautious when it comes to fire safety. The amp pulls a lot of juice, so I have one circuit dedicated to it. The other circuit handles all my other equipment.

I had an Adcom GFA-7807 (300 watts a channel), and the thing pulled so much current at startup that it tripped the breaker almost every time it was turned on. This was on the dedicated 20 amp circuit. I brought it back to the store (Harvey Electronics), and it did the same thing there. It was very funny watching more than a whole rack of equipment turn off... He then hooked it up to a circuit in the floor that they must use for the cleaning equipment, and it worked fine. He was very mad that I wanted a refund. Adcom should have included some circuitry (if possible) to stagger the charging of the capacitors to prevent this. I called Adcom, and he said that they were seeing this "problem" from a lot of customers.

Anyway, a dedicated circuit is a good thing. It should eliminate any pops you get from other appliances. If you are getting a pop from the ice maker, your HT outlet must be on the same leg as the kitchen.

Disclaimer: I am not an electrician, and I am not trying to sound like one. I am just sharing my experience with all of you :)

Disclaimer: I am not an electrician, and I am not trying to sound like one...
But we all know that you occasionally play one on TV...:D

Jason

Try what will quite possibly be the cheapest/easiest solution, hook the 3910/3805 (I would try each independently to see if one is the cause and not the other; sounds like it might be you receiver as opposed to the 3910) up to a standard PC Uninterrupted Power Supply (UPS) that does voltage regulation (i think all, if not most, of the APC UPS solutions have Automatic AVR). While not ideal (as the less expensive models do not output a pure sine wave), it may be sufficient. If it is both the 3910 and the receiver that are affected by the voltage swings (unfortunately, this option might not reveal whether voltage swings are your problem if the equipment really needs a pure sine wave power source) you should get a sufficiently sized UPS to handle the load.

Presuming voltage swings are your problem, the next cheapest/easiest option would be to get a voltage stabilizer (such as the Monster above, although I'm sure there are cheaper options) designed for electronic equipment (i.e., it outputs a pure sine wave).

Finally, since you are not a handy man and you do not own your place, run a dedicated circuit (but this won't necessarily get rid of power fluctuations given your situation, though it will certainly minimize the problem to the greatest extent possible).

My $0.02.

Well, I had the equipment hooked to the circuit with all the kitchen appliances. Moved to a different one with little on it. Flipping on a ceiling fan still causes the audio to cut out. Do you guys think this is a problem with the equipment? I'm at a loss.

Another test may be to take your 3805/3910 to a friend's house, and see if you get similar issues with compressors kicking on/off etc. This will eliminate the uncertainty w/regards to the Denon electronics.

none of the others had this problem with my power.

Many interesting suggestions but your own proposed solution makes the most sense to me (assuming all other variables are exactly the same). Get a forth 3910 and make sure they don't give you one you had already returned. A marginal power supply in your unit could easily be more susceptible to ac line noise/spikes.

I've been messing with the new Silicon Optix HQV test disk (see powerbuy (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=556519)). I have so far tried running the 3910 running Copmponent video @480i through the DVDO iScan HD+ to my AE700, and running the 3910 HDMI direct to the AE700 @720p.
I don't want to post any "final" scores yet, since the cadence tests need a bit more viewing.
The 3910 "direct" (over HDMI to ae700) does much better on jaggies tests. The 3910-DVDO does much better on "Film Detail 3:2 test (racecar) - lots of moire (http://www.mathematik.com/Moire/) on the direct 3910. The 3910 seems perfectly fine in the 3:2 cadence test, though.
Should I try 480p on the 3910 direct HDMI connection? I'm a bit confused as to the different results I am getting between the 3:2 detail test and the 3:2 cadence test. Any thoughts?

The 3910 will pass the Film Detail test (racecar) when set to 1080i via DVI or HDMI. For some reason it won't pass at any other resolution.

The 3910 will pass the Film Detail test (racecar) when set to 1080i via DVI or HDMI. For some reason it won't pass at any other resolution.

I can vouch for the 1080i as well. I too, however, am still working with the cadence tests...I don't find these test too easy to judge.

I can vouch for the 1080i as well. I too, however, am still working with the cadence tests...I don't find these test too easy to judge.


Does anyone get Y/C delay using 1080i with the 3910?

DigiPete

If any one is interested in a 3910 in mint condintion and passes btb and has dl3 active pm me.

kevinca!.......I may be interested in your 3910. Not sure how to PM you.

Just click on his name and scroll down on the drop down menu.

Yes, 1080i sure does help a lot with the racecar. I am not sure if the jaggies tests are quite as good, though. Still, the racecar is hugely improved, and if there is a difference in jaggies, it is only slight. Thanks, uzun and BenDover.
The easiest cadence test differences I see are looking at the cups. You have to get pretty close to see jaggies on the newspaper. It is very hard to score some of them.

Burkerg
Try a new Denon link cable. (regular CAT5/CAT5e/CAT6 cable) and see if that helps.
I had mine always going to analog ext in, replaced the cable and all was well.
Badabbing
Sounds normal - have you ever "won" an argument? It's a package deal.

Are you kidding? You can't win even if you have evidence. :D

Following up to my earlier post about my experiences with the 3910 bass management
verses source direct mode.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5956351&&#post5956351

I did some more testing and looking up the 3910 specs. It looks like my low freq sweep measurements showing a -3dB dip starting 1/2 octave above to 1/2 octave below the crossover point are consistent with the design of the 3910 crossover.
The specs show the 3910 crossover employs a -12dB/octave high-pass and -24dB/octave low-pass filter. It didn't say, but I assume the crossover setting represents the -3dB down point on each filter. That would explain the -3dB dip I see in my low freq sweep output as bass management starts re-routing signal across the crossover frequency setting.

Normally, if I were tuning a crossover between my speakers and sub-woofer, I could adjust the crossover and level settings on the sub to closely match the rolloff of the 3910. But, since I'm trying to send bass from my center and surrounds to my main fronts, I can't independently adjust the bass level to the fronts without affecting the overall front speaker output.
Just the compromise I have to live with as long as I'm doing without a sub....

As for listening tests, the settings which sounded best, in my opinion, were different based on the type and quality of the source material used.

The highest quality recordings in SACD and DVDA all sounded best using source direct mode on the 3910 and the multi-channel inputs on my amp...A/D performed by the 3910 and no additional processing at all.

Here, I lost use of any bass management and eq functions, but with really hi-fi recordings, the more pure I kept my signal path, the better my results. They were more detailed and life-like and the dynamic range and response seemed better.
The bulk of any bass in most of the multi-channel music material I listened to was mixed to the front mains anyway, so the bass management wasn't a big sacrifice. Giving up the room eq functions on my amp was a bit of a tradeoff, but, I think really high resolution source material got muddled up more by eq'ing than it benefitted me anyway.

With regular 44.1Khz CD audio, results were varied. The better the recording, the less I wanted to muck with it. Again, I used source direct mode on the 3910 and either set the amp to "pure direct stereo mode" (pure analog stereo input signal mode, no processing), or regular stereo mode, or DPLII/Neo6 music modes if I felt like re-tailoring the recording more to my own liking.

For movies, the digital input and eq functions on the amp worked the best. Rather than worry about the subtle nuances of timbre in the original recording of a movie gunshot, laser blast, or explosion, feeding the amp a digital signal from the 3910 and using the amp's eq functions to get smooth panning, the most intelligible possible dialog, and punch out of these special effects sounds was the way to go.
Having the amp do the bass management in this case and re-routing some of the bass from the center and surrounds to the mains clearly helped.

Overall, I think I'm starting to get things dialed in pretty well and I'm pretty happy with the results. I had expected the bass management on the 3910 to give me an advantage with using the analog inputs on my amp, but it didn't work out that way.
I do think the 3910 sounds really great though and was a good investment for its audio performance.

Hi, I like to buy denon DVD-3910 and connected it to Philips 30pf9975 via component input. Info this is quite old lcd so no DVi, HDMI .... sad ...

just like to get some confirmation is denon 3910 player able to pass 1080i picture signal tru component cable ? and will i able to enjoy 1080i picture quality with this combination ??

thanks ...

Hi, I like to buy denon DVD-3910 and connected it to Philips 30pf9975 via component input. Info this is quite old lcd so no DVi, HDMI .... sad ...

just like to get some confirmation is denon 3910 player able to pass 1080i picture signal tru component cable ? and will i able to enjoy 1080i picture quality with this combination ??

thanks ...

Unfortunately no 1080i over component from the 3910.

DigiPete

that sad to hear ... need to change the tv then .. it get obsoloted fast ...

Unfortunately no 1080i over component from the 3910.

DigiPete

Are you sure? I could not find this documented anywhere...

Are you sure? I could not find this documented anywhere...

that stated on the manual that only dvi/hdmi can enjoy 720i/720p/1080i upsampling ...
i just like to confirm this with people that already have the unit ... since i like to buy and enjoying better pics, i plan to get DVD-3910 ... too bad that i dont pass 1080i signal tru component out....
and my old LCD TV (only 2 years old) only have D-Sub 15 and component input... now all in sudden the standard change to HDMI or DVI-D ... and time to get new lcd ... :/

Are you sure? I could not find this documented anywhere...
100% positive, no 720p or 1080i over component, it's part of the DVD Forum spec for licensing.

One of these (www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Video/DDA.ASP) might be worth a try though. You'll need to get a VGA-to-component break-out cable also...

thanks2 ... there is still hope to use my old lcd tv then and get the DVD-3910 ... :)

At the end i plan to get denon DVD-3910 partnered with sharp LC-32GA4M, this sharp lcd tv has a DVI-I Input connection... so in this case do i able to enjoy 1080i picture quality, in other word does denon DVD-3910 can pass 1080i signal tru DVI-D non HDCP??
or i need to find a monitor that have DVI-D (HDCP Compatible) input to be specific ??

this getting very confusing ... anyone has some info on this ?? Thanks..

and my old LCD TV (only 2 years old) only have D-Sub 15 and component input... now all in sudden the standard change to HDMI or DVI-D ... and time to get new lcd ... :/

Yes, exactly. :)

No Adi,

You must have an HDCP compliant input on your HDTV in order to see upsampled to HD resolution video. The Dtrovision DC-DA1 works perfectly as an input adapter for those of us with only analog HD inputs and may work for you too?

Don't be too bummed though... there are folks today buying brand new HDTVs without an HDCP input. Just think how pissed they are gonna be when they find out it won't receive/display all HD content. :eek:

Following up to my earlier post about my experiences with the 3910 bass management
verses source direct mode.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5956351&&#post5956351

I did some more testing and looking up the 3910 specs. It looks like my low freq sweep measurements showing a -3dB dip starting 1/2 octave above to 1/2 octave below the crossover point are consistent with the design of the 3910 crossover.
The specs show the 3910 crossover employs a -12dB/octave high-pass and -24dB/octave low-pass filter. It didn't say, but I assume the crossover setting represents the -3dB down point on each filter. That would explain the -3dB dip I see in my low freq sweep output as bass management starts re-routing signal across the crossover frequency setting.

Normally, if I were tuning a crossover between my speakers and sub-woofer, I could adjust the crossover and level settings on the sub to closely match the rolloff of the 3910. But, since I'm trying to send bass from my center and surrounds to my main fronts, I can't independently adjust the bass level to the fronts without affecting the overall front speaker output.
Just the compromise I have to live with as long as I'm doing without a sub....

As for listening tests, the settings which sounded best, in my opinion, were different based on the type and quality of the source material used.

The highest quality recordings in SACD and DVDA all sounded best using source direct mode on the 3910 and the multi-channel inputs on my amp...A/D performed by the 3910 and no additional processing at all.

Here, I lost use of any bass management and eq functions, but with really hi-fi recordings, the more pure I kept my signal path, the better my results. They were more detailed and life-like and the dynamic range and response seemed better.
The bulk of any bass in most of the multi-channel music material I listened to was mixed to the front mains anyway, so the bass management wasn't a big sacrifice. Giving up the room eq functions on my amp was a bit of a tradeoff, but, I think really high resolution source material got muddled up more by eq'ing than it benefitted me anyway.

With regular 44.1Khz CD audio, results were varied. The better the recording, the less I wanted to muck with it. Again, I used source direct mode on the 3910 and either set the amp to "pure direct stereo mode" (pure analog stereo input signal mode, no processing), or regular stereo mode, or DPLII/Neo6 music modes if I felt like re-tailoring the recording more to my own liking.

For movies, the digital input and eq functions on the amp worked the best. Rather than worry about the subtle nuances of timbre in the original recording of a movie gunshot, laser blast, or explosion, feeding the amp a digital signal from the 3910 and using the amp's eq functions to get smooth panning, the most intelligible possible dialog, and punch out of these special effects sounds was the way to go.
Having the amp do the bass management in this case and re-routing some of the bass from the center and surrounds to the mains clearly helped.

Overall, I think I'm starting to get things dialed in pretty well and I'm pretty happy with the results. I had expected the bass management on the 3910 to give me an advantage with using the analog inputs on my amp, but it didn't work out that way.
I do think the 3910 sounds really great though and was a good investment for its audio performance.

Thanks for that :D a nice overview.

Glad to hear you are happy with your system ;)

Cheers
KJ

100% positive, no 720p or 1080i over component, it's part of the DVD Forum spec for licensing.

One of these (www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Video/DDA.ASP) might be worth a try though. You'll need to get a VGA-to-component break-out cable also...

Yes, as merc said, if your player needs to "see" HDCP (on DVI-D), this converter won't work.

Yes, as merc said, if your player needs to "see" HDCP (on DVI-D), this converter won't work.
He could be right, but I would ask Kei Clark at Digital Connection about it. She referenced it in this discussion (www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=560762) about HDCP and later pulled it from the thread. I believe it does work..

Any issues with plugging the power cord of the 3910 into the Denon 3803 av.
2. also best method of cut the length of the power cord? will only need 2ft.
plan to have a dedicate circuite w/ power conditioner&surger
tx, db

Any issues with plugging the power cord of the 3910 into the Denon 3803 av.
2. also best method of cut the length of the power cord? will only need 2ft.
plan to have a dedicate circuite w/ power conditioner&surger
tx, db

I don't recommend hacking your power cord but it can be done. Just use some quality electical connectors that are properly rated for the cord.

If you don't want to hack it, one of these should work:

http://www.nordost.com/Cables/power-valhalla.htm

They come in 1/2 meter lengths. :D :D

"Valhalla Power Cord uses our new proprietary 'Dual Micro Mono-filament' technology to enhance audio and video performance"

"Unlike conventional power cables which have propagation speeds of less than 50% the speed of light, VALHALLA Reference power cord has a speed of 90 % the speed of light. This offers vast improvements in all facets of musical and visual performance. "

Dual-Mono?!?! Propagation speeds in a power cable?!?!.....ugh. Reading their advert makes my hair hurt

Actually, it made me laugh so hard that I had trouble stopping :D

I hack power cable all of the time (for neatness) and have found that a trip to the local electrical supply store can yield some very nice power connectors for just a few dollars. 'Installation' is easy & quick and the lack of coiled cords for a one to two foot run are worth it to me.

that stated on the manual that only dvi/hdmi can enjoy 720i/720p/1080i upsampling ...
i just like to confirm this with people that already have the unit ... since i like to buy and enjoying better pics, i plan to get DVD-3910 ... too bad that i dont pass 1080i signal tru component out....
and my old LCD TV (only 2 years old) only have D-Sub 15 and component input... now all in sudden the standard change to HDMI or DVI-D ... and time to get new lcd ... :/


you can get one of these http://www.spatz-tech.de/spatz/dvi_magic.htm

I have a less than 60 day old, mint condition Denon DVD-3910 for sale:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5984504&&#post5984504

PM me if anyone is interested.

I have a less than 60 day old, mint condition Denon DVD-3910 for sale:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5982735&&#post5982735

PM me if anyone is interested.


hey Tony, just curious, why are you selling it? :D

edit- never mind....i just saw your sig :p

No one has answered this question??

Any issues with plugging the power cord of the 3910 into the Denon 3803 av.

Just trying to clean up the apprence of the system

DAB
Haven't tried it, I like to plug everything I can directly into the power conditioner. It should work fine, though. Decent diy power connectors are very easy to find locally or on the web.

cwolf
Good post. I still use eq most of the time. But there are times when I do want pure direct analog audio to 3805.

No one has answered this question??

Any issues with plugging the power cord of the 3910 into the Denon 3803 av.

Just trying to clean up the apprence of the system If you are going to plug your gear into a power conditioner you should try to isolate the receiver and display device from other digital devices. I would never recommend hooking up anything to those convenience outlets.

$0.02

Thanks,
Yes, I am getting plasma PIO 5050 in Sept. some of the eq under the house.
New 3910 [next year upgrade the 3803-if needed]
I plan to get an electrician to route a dedicated line under the house (I have room)/under the stereo. to a line conditioner/surger. plug all the Eq. into it. But i want to eliminate an extra hole in the floor plate (size). I was planning only the 3803 -3910 in the living room & the rest of the eq (what ever else I need) underneath. KISS
db

cwolf
Good post. I still use eq most of the time. But there are times when I do want pure direct analog audio to 3805.
I think the upcoming 4806/3 solves some of the crossover setting problems by allowing individual cross over points per speaker(s). For analog, the ICBM does much the same thing...

Sure keenan, just put evil thoughts in my head!
3805->4806 = evil
1394....... oooooooo!
Variable high/low pass Crossover 40/60/80/100/120/150/200/250! ....... oooooooo!
Audyssey MultEq Auto Setup System ....... oooooooo!
must.... get....... help..... now......

Sure keenan, just put evil thoughts in my head!
3805->4806 = evil
1394....... oooooooo!
Variable high/low pass Crossover 40/60/80/100/120/150/200/250! ....... oooooooo!
Audyssey MultEq Auto Setup System ....... oooooooo!
must.... get....... help..... now......

Trade up. Trade up. Trade up.

That's what this hobby is all about.

Sure keenan, just put evil thoughts in my head!
3805->4806 = evil
1394....... oooooooo!
Variable high/low pass Crossover 40/60/80/100/120/150/200/250! ....... oooooooo!
Audyssey MultEq Auto Setup System ....... oooooooo!
must.... get....... help..... now......
Sorry... :p

I'm hoping to see what the 4306 has to offer, I was hoping it was just a low-powered 4806, but initial reports say it has the same power output... :confused:

No Adi,

You must have an HDCP compliant input on your HDTV in order to see upsampled to HD resolution video. The Dtrovision DC-DA1 works perfectly as an input adapter for those of us with only analog HD inputs and may work for you too?

Don't be too bummed though... there are folks today buying brand new HDTVs without an HDCP input. Just think how pissed they are gonna be when they find out it won't receive/display all HD content. :eek:

Ok thanks for your info.. by the way both HDMI and DVI-D Input must be HDCP Compliant in this case ... thats silly, i can imagine how i gonna choose the LCD monitor then ... on the manufacture website it is hardly stated weather their products is HDCP Compliant ... maybe i should go to the shop and see one by one ... even magazine review also never stated, so for those who buy highly reviewed product may end up pissed off since they cant really enjoy HDTV quality.

keenan
4306...... ooooooooo!
Is this coming out for cedia or ces?
I'm hoping ces since I "need" some new rear channel maggies first!
JohnGZ28
"Trade up. Trade up. Trade up. That's what this hobby is all about."
Hmmmm...... I didn't notice this new trend.......

adi_v58
If it is not clear it is HDMI/HDCP compliant, don't buy it!
"Silly" or not, it seems as though it will be very necessary for your future pleasure. Especially if you are in the USA.

keenan
4306...... ooooooooo!
Is this coming out for cedia or ces?
I'm hoping ces since I "need" some new rear channel maggies first!

I don't know, but what's discouraging is that it appears that it will have the same power output as the 4806, so that would indicate to me that the feature list for the 4306 is a stripped down version of the 4806. I was/am hoping for just the opposite as a 4806-featured 4306 with less power would make for a sweet pre/pro at a very good price.

keenan
4306...... ooooooooo!
Is this coming out for cedia or ces?
I'm hoping ces since I "need" some new rear channel maggies first!
JohnGZ28
"Trade up. Trade up. Trade up. That's what this hobby is all about."
Hmmmm...... I didn't notice this new trend.......

adi_v58
If it is not clear it is HDMI/HDCP compliant, don't buy it!
"Silly" or not, it seems as though it will be very necessary for your future pleasure. Especially if you are in the USA.

Check out the following:

http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/DenonAVR3806AVR4306receiver.php

4306 is expected to be released in October. But remember: even October 30th is still October.

In a nutshell, 4306 is the 4806 minus the THX with a smaller amp section (half the number of independent power transformers) and minus the independent cross-over setting. But it has the same Audyssey MultEq XT Room Eq and analog-to-HDMI trancoding as 4806, Denon Link, 1394, RJ-45 ethernet port, a new remote, and USB port for, e.g. an iPod.

-- loeric :D

keenan, thanx, depressing. If I want to replace my 3805, it would be for something with "all that" + 1394 , etc.
At some point, I guess it will be a priority.

loeric
thanx. hmmmm... pass..
I'd sooner just add a good power amp. Wait for lower price.

Why do folks who spend the money on a nice DVD player which sounds as good as the Denon 3910 even want to use a receiver to pass that audio through???

I am sure I am naive, but why would you spend $1K or more on a DVD player and not be using some decent seperates with it? :)

Why do folks who spend the money on a nice DVD player which sounds as good as the Denon 3910 even want to use a receiver to pass that audio through???

I am sure I am naive, but why would you spend $1K or more on a DVD player and not be using some decent seperates with it? :)
As has been posted here numerous times, I and many others that are using the 3910/5910 & 3805/4806/5805 combo are taking advantage of the auto-eq/room correction feature of the AVR. For me, it makes an incredible difference. I've got a pretty big room open on all sides and with a funky configuration, so the room correction is a must. And to give it some extra umph, I'm running my fronts through an Anthem MCA-20 @ 225wpc to get those L&Rs singin'! I love the sound and couldn't be happier (naive? :D ).

Jason

As has been posted here numerous times, I and many others that are using the 3910/5910 & 3805/4806/5805 combo are taking advantage of the auto-eq/room correction feature of the AVR. So... does that mean that you are hooking up your 3910/5910 and using it only as a digital transport... or are you using the unit via analog outputs and then redigitizing that analog signal to digital in the receiver and then doing another D/A conversion for output to your speakers?

If you are going to use digital processing in your receiver, why did you bother to spend the money for a $1K plus transport?

Also, room correction is only good for one seat... and many folks find a flat room response to sound non-musical?

Also, do you set up your room difusers and other absorbers for use with or without your Room EQ being on? If so, do you remove them when you listen to vinyl or your tuner or your home music server via analog inputs?

I have always EQ'd for my sub-80Hz frequencies, but nerver thought about going full digital because I'd lose some of the musicality I have grown to love? YMMV.

I'd appreciate it if more folks who are going 3910 to Denon Receiver EQ via digital tells us more about their sources, rooms, and systems if possible. I'm curious.... :)

I've got a pretty big room open on all sides and with a funky configuration, so the room correction is a must. That's interesting, because I always thought that a larger room with less walls was actually more preferable for music listening due to lack of reflective surfaces which fell within the wave timeline per absolute time/driver/alignment? I have a large, open room too... and although it requires more watts to go really loud, I only have one real point of first reflection to my prime seat. ;)

Why do folks who spend the money on a nice DVD player which sounds as good as the Denon 3910 even want to use a receiver to pass that audio through???

I am sure I am naive, but why would you spend $1K or more on a DVD player and not be using some decent seperates with it? :)

Good question and my current dilemma.

Do I go with the 4806 or separates? Cost is a major factor.

I've eliminated the Rotel 1098-1095 combo. Sounds good, but not as good as the Anthem 30-MCA 50 combo with my speakers. But the Anthem lacks a number of the features of the 4806.

The 4806 can be used now and when funds accumulate I can add a two channel or five channel amp and use it as a pre/pro.

John,

I started towards seperates a while back by buying a new Denon receiver w/preamp outputs, and then adding a Parasound 5 channel amp. All in all that isn't a bad plan and sounds pretty good too.

Back then, and even now, we still wonder why Denon does not make a comparable preamp based on their receivers???

Anyway, I have no problem at all with using a Denon receiver as a receiver or then as a pre/pro...
I am just curious as to what all the hub-bub is about using that receiver in order to EQ "soundform" all your music digitally. To me, that seems limiting rather than beneficial? And, most importantly, if you are going to use your receiver/pre-pro to do all the digital processing, why the need for a player which costs more due to its' analog traces, design and sound? ;)

Still, if I could afford a Meridian system, I'd love to try it too. :)

I definitely see your point, merc. I recently ended up buying a 3910 at the local high-end retailer's annual employee price sale for $1200. But after my purchase, it sure seems like the Denon Link stuff would be of better value at the low end of the price scale (for DVD/CD player), where we aren't paying for nice DACs in the DVD/DVD-A/SACD player, but instead, nice DACs in the receiver.

I think in the long run, while it may seem like a waste to some, to not use Denon Link, I will end up going with separates when I build my theatre room in my house I am about to move into in a month.

-Jason

I was looking into buying the 3910 but when I called my local dealer he mentioned he didn't carry it but could get it. He also mentioned that it was discontinued 2 weeks ago to be replaced by the DVD-3920. Has anyone heard this? He didn't have any details about the 3920.

merc
"If you are going to use digital processing in your receiver, why did you bother to spend the money for a $1K plus transport?"
"why the need for a player which costs more due to its' analog traces, design and sound?"
"Also, room correction is only good for one seat... and many folks find a flat room response to sound non-musical?"

Um, video? Also the future. Hopefully the last DVD player I buy. (I have enough) It is not always going to be hooked up to this same receiver. 1394.
one seat? BS.
non-musical? We have the option of listening to stereo analog audio when we want, right?
We can also use the eq to help somewhat with room/speaker deficiencies. Believe me this is "musically" helpful.
It is technically inferior, but useful for those of us who enjoy using it.
Since you can connect the 3910 to the 3805 using several connections, and can listen using different inputs, analog or digital, you can get all the benefits of the transport, the dacs, the analog sections, etc. Easy to use one or the other.

"room difusers and other absorbers"
As if! A big part of the reason I need eq!

I was looking into buying the 3910 but when I called my local dealer he mentioned he didn't carry it but could get it. He also mentioned that it was discontinued 2 weeks ago to be replaced by the DVD-3920. Has anyone heard this? He didn't have any details about the 3920.


never heard this before....

I was looking into buying the 3910 but when I called my local dealer he mentioned he didn't carry it but could get it. He also mentioned that it was discontinued 2 weeks ago to be replaced by the DVD-3920. Has anyone heard this? He didn't have any details about the 3920.

Hmmmm... Here we go !!

:D

I have my 3910 hooked up to a Denon 4802R THX utra II receiver using 6 analog cables and one fiber optic connection. I used the Rat shack meter to set the levels and I couldn't be any happier. :)

I don't feel the need to "upgrade *icky brown stuff* until the advent of HD and even then, I am going to have to be convinced. Inofar as being able to get all this info through one connection---What would I do with all of these pretty cables I already purchased. :D

Yeah, I've got the same dilemma...what to do with all of these cables (not to mention yet another set of component cables I snagged from Audioholics)...but upgrade time for me yielded the 3805 as the absolute top choice not only in features and flexibility, but also in price (the former far outweighs the latter). As a self-proclaimed Perpetual Rookie (PR), I love the auto-eq...do I use it all the time, no...in fact, before DL3 arrived, I only listened to music through the analog connection via 3910...for those that missed it, I'm 90-95% music and whatever with the rest. I was thrilled with Pure Direct and such, but with the availability of multichannel, both SACD and DVD-A, via DL3 and taking advantage of the auto-eq/room correction action, I just can't say no. It sounds SOOOO much better that I can't bring myself to leave it pure and simple just for the sake of pure and simple. Just my take on this, but DL3 is a huge leap forward...not a "purity" step backward.

Jason

I'm with Jason all the way - DL3 is a godsend for me and I'm really enjoying the SACD's I've purchased. I still have the analog cables connected but have all but stopped using them. Anyone in the market for a set of BlueJeans cables in mint condition?

Gosh I hope my comments didn't appear to be a slam on DL 3 users. I am ecstatic it's here. I also appreciate how good Denon products are. :)

Along with my primary HT, I have the 3805/2910 combo hooked up in my bedroom (with the obligatory connections in that setup) as well. We watch 80% movies in there, but the occasional DVDA/SACD still sounds good to my ears.

My main HT is where I have the 4802R and 3910. It's used 70% for music (split in between DVD/DVD-A/SACD). I have a good room with high A frame ceiling. I prefer the 4802R to the 3805. I also have the 3803 hooked up to a 5.1 system in a large workout room. It's amazing how well that receiver powers my towers.

Last night I was listening to my REM greatest hits DVD-A and reading about you fellows with the upgrade bug--I was just thinking about how GREAT my system sounded and happy that I didn't feel the urge to pull out the check book--As you can probably surmise from the afore mentioned purchases, it hasn't always been that way. :cool:

As far as the 3920 or whatever model they call the 3910's replacement I see no need for an upgrade, even if it had the HQV chipset like the 5910. My 3910 is really nothing more than a transport at this point. I have it SDI modded outputting to a IscanHD and use DL3 into my 3805 Denon receiver which feeds separate amps. If DVDO upgrades their processor or if Denon comes out with a good Pre/Pro that has the processing power of the 5805 then I might jump. I am really tempted by the Audyssey MultEQxt Room EQ feature :cool:

Just hooked up my 3910 to my 3805. I wish I would have found this thread sooner, I probably would have held out on buying the 3805. All in all i'm pretty happy. Still waiting on my HL-R6768W to arrive to see this thing really shine! Quick question, do I need to do any fine tuning on the 3910?

Just hooked up my 3910 to my 3805. I wish I would have found this thread sooner, I probably would have held out on buying the 3805. All in all i'm pretty happy. Still waiting on my HL-R6768W to arrive to see this thing really shine! Quick question, do I need to do any fine tuning on the 3910?

If your display is set up properly you shouldn't need to do much if any fine tuning. You may want to tweak it here or there for a particular movie.

I like Clint E's old westerns and would play around with the settings on these but I found it easier to tweak the display.

Dumb question, but if my TV has a DVI input to take advantage of this player, yet my hi-def cable box is plugged into it, then what? Is there a switcher of some sort I can use? My Anthem AVM-20 doesn't have a DVI input to switch (yet). Thanks for answering for someone who's been off the boards for a while.

Yes, there exist such devices called DVI switchers that will do what you wish.

My DIRECTV Box has an HD out through component. My thought is that maybe your cable box does too. If so (and your TV has an HD component in) plug your 3910's DVI into your TV's DVI and cable through component. I don't notice any picture loss on my HD channels.

Dumb question, but if my TV has a DVI input to take advantage of this player, yet my hi-def cable box is plugged into it, then what? Is there a switcher of some sort I can use? My Anthem AVM-20 doesn't have a DVI input to switch (yet). Thanks for answering for someone who's been off the boards for a while.

Yes, as jboehle said, there are DVI switchers. Expect to spend several hundred dollars for a 2x1, and make sure it passes/is compatible with HDCP.

My DIRECTV Box has an HD out through component. My thought is that maybe your cable box does too. If so (and your TV has an HD component in) plug your 3910's DVI into your TV's DVI and cable through component. I don't notice any picture loss on my HD channels.

That's what I do using a Motorola 6412. When I had my system ISF calibrated the tech said there was no visable difference (on my display) between component and DVI as far as the cable box goes, but the picture was slightly better using DVI with the 3910. So that's what I went with - wasn't worth spending a couple hundred dollars for a switcher.

That's what I do using a Motorola 6412. When I had my system ISF calibrated the tech said there was no visable difference (on my display) between component and DVI as far as the cable box goes, but the picture was slightly better using DVI with the 3910. So that's what I went with - wasn't worth spending a couple hundred dollars for a switcher.

Not to dispute the observation, but isn't it strange that an upscaled digital source - the 3910 - would show a difference from analog interface to digital interface and a truly hi-def digital source - the HDTV tuner - would not?

Perhaps someone can expound on that one a bit . . .

Might be as simple as the 3910 is going through two conversions whereas the tuner only one; i.e., the 3910 has to convert the SDi source to whatever output you have it set to (e.g., 1080i) and then convert that converted signal into the analog domain for component out whereas the tuner simply takes the raw signal (e.g., 1080i, 720p, or even the 480i/p) and converts once to the analog domain for component out.

then of course, it could be in the D/A converters in each of the respective units.

then of course, it could be in the D/A converters in each of the respective units.


If I thought about it, I'd probably put my money on that. Hmmm, opens up a whole new area for mods, doesn't it? Too bad we're only leasing the bloody things.

If I thought about it, I'd probably put my money on that. Hmmm, opens up a whole new area for mods, doesn't it? Too bad we're only leasing the bloody things.
I've thought about that in the past, but the decoders in these STBs are a lowest cost, good enough solution, so grabbing the signal before it's processed beyond MPEG decoding would probably not be worth the effort. Now a third party, quality solution that takes the incoming cable feed would be nice though. :)

If I thought about it, I'd probably put my money on that. Hmmm, opens up a whole new area for mods, doesn't it? Too bad we're only leasing the bloody things.


Pepar, your HT upgrade is outstanding!!!! :cool:

good job man!

Pepar, your HT upgrade is outstanding!!!! :cool:

good job man!


Thanks. I'd probably get the last 5% - the "punch list, if you will - done if it didn't look, sound and feel so damn good already. As they say, "good is the enemy of the perfect."

Pepar, your HT upgrade is outstanding!!!! :cool:

good job man!

I concur. Awesome write up and photos.

Got to love those superbit titles :D

As an off topic aside, BB is selling most of their superbit titles for $9.99.

Not to dispute the observation, but isn't it strange that an upscaled digital source - the 3910 - would show a difference from analog interface to digital interface and a truly hi-def digital source - the HDTV tuner - would not?

Perhaps someone can expound on that one a bit . . .

Well I believe the simple answer to be that the 3910 only up-rezes to 720 or 1080 through the digital connection, not the component. The HD box sends HD material through both the analog and the digital connection, so you get HD with both digital and component connections.

Allen

y'all might be interested in knowing that, to my delight, I was surprised to find that when I opened my new 5910 that I picked up from tweeter last night (waited a month and a half for it to ship from denon) , that it came with an insert in the manual showing how to select denonlink3. I assumed this was a mistake and looked for the sticker on the back--sure enough, dl3 sticker!! Still skeptical, I actually hooked it up to my 3805 and it works like a charm. :D :D This is extremely strange because I was in contact with a jim from denon NJ office who said "the 5910 isn't ready for the dl-3 yet."

I wonder if the 3910's are also shipping from denon with dl-3 active. This makes the torturous wait for the US release of dl3 even more strange. I also spoke to a seemingly very knowledgable salesperson, who claimed never to have heard of the btb-filled in circle/manufacture date issue. He claimed to have sold a lot of 3910's and not to have had anybody complain about this to him. Then again, he is a salesman after all...


For anyone who received a 5910 with DL3 active, I was hoping you could answer a question...

The local Tweeter received a DVD-5910 earlier this week. The unit just arrived from the warehouse. When we opened the box we found it was a January 2005 build date and only had DENONLink SE.

My question is - Is there a way to tell that a unit has DL3 by looking at the outer cardboard (shipping) box? I'm hoping there is some type of dot or a DL3 sticker on the cardboard box. If possible I'd rather Tweeter solve this issue with a new unit than accept the SE unit and send it to DENON for upgrading.

If someone wants to PM me a serial number of a DL3 from the factory unit that would also help, but I understand why some are hesitant in providing serial numbers.

Well I believe the simple answer to be that the 3910 only up-rezes to 720 or 1080 through the digital connection, not the component. The HD box sends HD material through both the analog and the digital connection, so you get HD with both digital and component connections.

Allen

Heh, the obvious was sitting right under my nose...i guess it didn't click in my head that the 3910 only upconverts on the digital port since digital is the only way i've every connected my unit.

Heh, the obvious was sitting right under my nose...i guess it didn't click in my head that the 3910 only upconverts on the digital port since digital is the only way i've every connected my unit.

Of course the obvious has never eluded me! :D

I just remembered the discussions early in the thread when the 3910 was first released. I am doing the same setup with the 3910 and an HD TIVO. I was also willing to bet money that the DAC's in the 3910 are far better than in any set-top box.

Allen

I would like to display JPG's from CD-R/RW using the 3910 and a projector (Sony 10HT). My JPG's are high resolution images from a digital SLR and typically are 3-4 MB.

When trying to display these (which look great on a computer monitor) I found the pictures to:

-lack contrast

-squashed vertically

-generally unsharp

-do not use entire screen area in either direction

What am I missing here. Is there some set-up that needs to be done? Any ideas are welcomed.

I would like to display JPG's from CD-R/RW using the 3910 and a projector (Sony 10HT). My JPG's are high resolution images from a digital SLR and typically are 3-4 MB.

When trying to display these (which look great on a computer monitor) I found the pictures to:

-lack contrast

-squashed vertically

-generally unsharp

-do not use entire screen area in either direction

What am I missing here. Is there some set-up that needs to be done? Any ideas are welcomed.

You have to take in consideration the resolution of your projector. Just because your images are 2048x1536 or bigger in pixel dimensions, doesn't mean your projector which is projecting 800x600, can handle it. To best utilize your pictures on the projector resize them to the resolution of your projector. As for the contrast issues I'm not really sure - do your DVD's look the same?

- D

I am very happy with the projector's performance with DVD's and HD sources; good contrast (applied SMART) and good geometry and great sharpness.

I'll try scaling the JPG's to the projector's native resolution of 1366 x 768. Any idea as to why the JPG's don't fill out the screen?

I am very happy with the projector's performance with DVD's and HD sources; good contrast (applied SMART) and good geometry and great sharpness.

I'll try scaling the JPG's to the projector's native resolution of 1366 x 768. Any idea as to why the JPG's don't fill out the screen?

Ian,

Do some tests first before you convert your whole library. (sounds obvious, but you never know). CDs are a lot cheaper than your time. :)

Make sure your jpgs are in RGB mode rather than CMYK.

Beside the other resolutions mentioned, you should try...

- Standard NTSC resolution is 720 px x 480 px for 4x3 format
- 854 px x 480 px for wide-screen 16 x 9 format

If you have Photoshop or some other program with color management convert their color mode to "NTSC (1954)" that will give you more vibrant colors.

Ian,

Do some tests first before you convert your whole library. (sounds obvious, but you never know). CDs are a lot cheaper than your time. :)

Make sure your jpgs are in RGB mode rather than CMYK.

Beside the other resolutions mentioned, you should try...

- Standard NTSC resolution is 720 px x 480 px for 4x3 format
- 854 px x 480 px for wide-screen 16 x 9 format

If you have Photoshop or some other program with color management convert their color mode to "NTSC (1954)" that will give you more vibrant colors.

As you might have guessed, Ian B, you could have two or three "versions" of your images - the "raw" files, optimized for display on your projector and optimized for print. Always archive the raw images before tweaking them.

Thank you all for your help. I'll try your suggestions this weekend.

Another thing to check with the 3910 is if you have it set for a 16:9 display, and the dvd is 4:3, you have to manually put it in squeeze mode or you get a stretched picture. I don't know if that plays a role with the still pictures or not. I will try to play with that over the weekend and see what I find.

Allen

I sent my 3910 into MSB Technologies a couple of weeks ago to add the SDI mod - I called them today to check on the status and learned that they cannot add SDI to the 3910. They felt the compromises they would have to make to get the SDI card to send the digital signal would outweigh any benefits from using SDI over DVI.

So for $40 in shipping and two weeks of not having the DVD player, I am back to square one. I know JVB Digital will add the SDI mod, but I am kind of frustrated over the whole situation and wonder now if its worth the added cost (and more down-time without the player) to try it again with a different company.

Any thoughts on if the SDI over DVI benefits are worth it?

Thanks,
AE

They felt the compromises they would have to make to get the SDI card to send the digital signal would outweigh any benefits from using SDI over DVI.

So for $40 in shipping and two weeks of not having the DVD player, I am back to square one.

I can see how this would be terribly frustrating, but it is kind of refreshing to see a company tell the truth rather than just grabbing the money.

I am kind of new to this thread, (forgive me if you have stated this already). Why do you feel the need for the SDI upgrade? Do you have MB problems with the 3910 and your display? I know an external scaler would yield better quality than the 3910's, but would it be $1000 better? Would it be $2000 better?

Somewhere there is a point of diminishing returns here. And I know we all crave perfection, but with no (okay VERY few) displays offering a 1080p input at this point, maybe it would be best to wait at least until CEDA to see what is coming over the horizon.

I know an external scaler would yield better quality than the 3910's, but would it be $1000 better? Would it be $2000 better?
I'm not sure everyone would agree with this statement. If your display has a 720p or 1080i native resolution, then I doubt an external scaler would make any improvement at all. Where external scalers are great is when you need a custom resolution.

I agree that I would rather have MSB be honest about the technical benefits of adding SDI rather than blindly charging me $400. The actual frustrating part is their lack of communication (I sent 4 e-mails and two phone calls before tracking them down to find out the status of the upgrade).

In response to the outboard scaler - I've used the DVDO iScan HD (and now the HD+) for a few years now and it does yield noticeable improvements. Besides allowing me to only run the one DVI cable to my projector, it acts as a video switcher for all of my components and produces a much better picture on my cable TV and laserdisc sources.

My plan was to take advantage of an SDI connection straight from my main DVD player (the 3910) while allowing me to use the DVI input for my cable box.

Although I can try the upgrade again by sending it to JVB, I'm now rethinking the benefits based on the technical details I learned from MSB.

Thanks,
AE

I agree that I would rather have MSB be honest about the technical benefits of adding SDI rather than blindly charging me $400. The actual frustrating part is their lack of communication (I sent 4 e-mails and two phone calls before tracking them down to find out the status of the upgrade).

In response to the outboard scaler - I've used the DVDO iScan HD (and now the HD+) for a few years now and it does yield noticeable improvements. Besides allowing me to only run the one DVI cable to my projector, it acts as a video switcher for all of my components and produces a much better picture on my cable TV and laserdisc sources.

My plan was to take advantage of an SDI connection straight from my main DVD player (the 3910) while allowing me to use the DVI input for my cable box.

Although I can try the upgrade again by sending it to JVB, I'm now rethinking the benefits based on the technical details I learned from MSB.

Thanks,
AE

I had considered MSB when I was looking to SDI my 5900, but after talking to them and them saying they had never done a 5900 but would look at it, I decided just to go with JVB. I don't think MSB has had as much experience with these mods as JVB does so I wouldn't make any judgements on whether it's possible or if it requires compromises until you talk to JVB. My impression of JVB is that if it is possible, technically, they can do it. And they are incredibly responsive and do fast work work, about a 3 day turnaround on my 5900.

I can see how this would be terribly frustrating, but it is kind of refreshing to see a company tell the truth rather than just grabbing the money.

I am kind of new to this thread, (forgive me if you have stated this already). Why do you feel the need for the SDI upgrade? Do you have MB problems with the 3910 and your display? I know an external scaler would yield better quality than the 3910's, but would it be $1000 better? Would it be $2000 better?

Somewhere there is a point of diminishing returns here. And I know we all crave perfection, but with no (okay VERY few) displays offering a 1080p input at this point, maybe it would be best to wait at least until CEDA to see what is coming over the horizon.

I've never understood the thousands of dollars that some spend on upgrades. If I'd have wanted a $3000 or $4000 player, I'd have bought one. I'm convinced that the upgrades do inprove the performance, but you're right about the diminishing returns. And then there's the snake oil factor of name-dropping circuit parts names with hushed reverence. I don't chase California cult wines either.

(My nomex is on.)

I agree that I would rather have MSB be honest about the technical benefits of adding SDI rather than blindly charging me $400. The actual frustrating part is their lack of communication (I sent 4 e-mails and two phone calls before tracking them down to find out the status of the upgrade).

In response to the outboard scaler - I've used the DVDO iScan HD (and now the HD+) for a few years now and it does yield noticeable improvements. Besides allowing me to only run the one DVI cable to my projector, it acts as a video switcher for all of my components and produces a much better picture on my cable TV and laserdisc sources.

My plan was to take advantage of an SDI connection straight from my main DVD player (the 3910) while allowing me to use the DVI input for my cable box.

Although I can try the upgrade again by sending it to JVB, I'm now rethinking the benefits based on the technical details I learned from MSB.

Thanks,
AE

Anthement,


There is no reason for a company that does business over the internet not to respond to emails!

I can also see you had a legit reason for the SDI upgrade. At some point VERY soon manufacturers need to address the fact that their higher end models will need more than one digital input! Sometimes on these forums you just see a case of upgrade-itist (which I'm sure has influenced some of my buying decisions) just to get the latest thing.

BillP,

I'm glad you think an outboard scaler is worth the extra cash. hmmmmmmm, maybe I need one :)

Help me out here guys... please.

I downloaded the latest 3910 upgrade Firmware from their Web page.

It contains three files. The step by step instructions only mention burning the .cfw file using a CD burner like Nero and doing a ISO image.

Do I also burn the other two .rom files the same way (Nero, ISO image, etc), or do I just drag and drop them onto separate CDs ??

Thanks!!

-- Cain

Help me out here guys... please.

I downloaded the latest 3910 upgrade Firmware from their Web page.

It contains three files. The step by step instructions only mention burning the .cfw file using a CD burner like Nero and doing a ISO image.

Do I also burn the other two .rom files the same way (Nero, ISO image, etc), or do I just drag and drop them onto separate CDs ??

Thanks!!

-- Cain

Are ya sure it doesn't mention following the same procedure with the other files? I seem to remember that it did.

Are ya sure it doesn't mention following the same procedure with the other files? I seem to remember that it did.

Is that what you did ???

-- Cain

Is that what you did ???

-- Cain

Yes, I used the same procedure for all three. And I also remember the instructions saying to apply them sequentially.

In case I wasn't clear - the three files each go on their own CD.

I'm looking for Integra Research RDC-7.1 owners using i.LINK with their DVD-3910 to verify that they can perform basic transport control functions using their RDC-7.1 remote. Also looking to confirm the PAUSE button doesn't work. Any out there?

Yes, I used the same procedure for all three. And I also remember the instructions saying to apply them sequentially.

Thx Pepar !! I'll do that....

-- Cain

Has anyone watched the first season of The O.C. on their 3910? I have been renting it from Blockbuster and so far the first and second discs look like **** on my 3910/Sony KV-36HS510. They are so grainy! I'm wondering if I haven't set something up right on my display or the 3910 or if the DVDs are just mastered as this crap. Granted I haven't calibrated with Avia since I got the 3910, but I wouldn't think it should look this crappy.

-Jason

Sometimes on these forums you just see a case of upgrade-itist just to get the latest thing.
Jeez...makes me want to change my signature! :p

Jason

Has anyone connected their 3910 to a pioneer elite receiver via i.Link? What settings did you use, format1 or format2?

Jeez...makes me want to change my signature! :p

Jason
No offense Jason, this is most certainly a case of it takes one to know one. I'm trying to keep my from being financially terminal! :eek:

Appalling that this thread has been left to sit for so long...it's nearing dormancy...:eek:

Stimulating bump...:)

Jason

Anyone have any predictions as to when we can expect the successor to the 3910?

Anyone have any predictions as to when we can expect the successor to the 3910?
Roughly 24 hours before my untimely death, about 3 or 4 days before my funeral and 5 to 6 months before my wife is acquitted of homicide (depending on the efficiency of the legal system and her defense team...paid for by selling all of my A/V gear on Ebay), as she and her legal team will surely argue that I "had it coming."

My next player will definitely be one of the "upcoming" HD units...no hurry...;)

Jason

My next player will definitely be one of the "upcoming" HD units...no hurry...;)

Jason

Sounds like a wise move...no death threats around here ;) but I also see no reason to upgrade until the HD players arive. For me, much will depend on the audio quality, and the new unit must play SACD and DVD-A disks over a digital connection, preferably Denon Link (don't really want to spend even more buying a new receiver/pre pro).

...don't really want to spend even more buying a new receiver/pre pro...
Except for maybe the 3806...? :D

Jason (the dead)

OK, maybe I'll LOOK at it...I could probably switch and my wife would never know the difference, unless I bought it in silver. :rolleyes:

I'm still getting random, brief (<<1 sec.) audio drop-outs on the DVD side of a DualDisc. I have the latest fw installed. I thought the latest fw was supposed to resolve this. Anyone else have this problem?

Jason - me too!

Jason - me too!
"Me too" regarding your wife killing you when you get the 3910's successor..."Me too" that you're also holding out for the HD players...or "Me too" that you're interested in the 3806...:D

Jason (I, also)

Me too - I'm sticking with this until death as a dvd player!
When the HD units come out, well, I'll need one of those as well (which may cause the wife/death thingy)

I've had my 3910 for nearly a year, and my wife loaded her first DVD into it just last week, at my urging (she normally relies on me or my daughter to do this). So I would be "safe" if I decided to upgrade, but I see no need, at least until the HD players arrive, there is plenty of worthwhile software to rent/buy, the format is secured, and the price is reasonable. Again, however, the sound quality will be the most important thing to me, and if they do not sound at least as good as the 3910 - and play my existing high-rez connection digitally - even the HD players will be a no-go for me.

I'm so mad at Denon. I bought the 3910 from Home Theatre Store. I asked the guy if it had the firmware update and he said there was no way to check until you know the serial number and mine was being delivered as they did not have it in stock. I checked when I received it, and it turns out I needed it. I went to the Denon site and ordered the disc by mail, it's been about four weeks and Nothing. I called Denon and they just kept passing me around like a bong at Woodstock. Has anyone tried the download? I can see the download screwing up the 3910 and then I would have nothing...

I'm so mad at Denon. I bought the 3910 from Home Theatre Store. I asked the guy if it had the firmware update and he said there was no way to check until you know the serial number and mine was being delivered as they did not have it in stock. I checked when I received it, and it turns out I needed it. I went to the Denon site and ordered the disc by mail, it's been about four weeks and Nothing. I called Denon and they just kept passing me around like a bong at Woodstock. Has anyone tried the download? I can see the download screwing up the 3910 and then I would have nothing...



Download the firmware from Denon. I've done it for a half dozen different updates with no ill effects.

I'm so mad at Denon. I bought the 3910 from Home Theatre Store. I asked the guy if it had the firmware update and he said there was no way to check until you know the serial number and mine was being delivered as they did not have it in stock. I checked when I received it, and it turns out I needed it. I went to the Denon site and ordered the disc by mail, it's been about four weeks and Nothing. I called Denon and they just kept passing me around like a bong at Woodstock. Has anyone tried the download? I can see the download screwing up the 3910 and then I would have nothing...the last time i spoke with someone at denon, they sent the firmware CD right away. Download is even faster! you'll need to burn three cd's i think.

I'm so mad at Denon. I bought the 3910 from Home Theatre Store. I asked the guy if it had the firmware update and he said there was no way to check until you know the serial number and mine was being delivered as they did not have it in stock. I checked when I received it, and it turns out I needed it. I went to the Denon site and ordered the disc by mail, it's been about four weeks and Nothing. I called Denon and they just kept passing me around like a bong at Woodstock. Has anyone tried the download? I can see the download screwing up the 3910 and then I would have nothing...

I've applied nearly every update shortly after they became available; I usually read a few week's worth of posts here to see what "issues" there might be. I passed on one - don't remember which - because of the pain it caused, but all the others have worked fine - and many had noticeable improvements.

I've applied nearly every update shortly after they became available; I usually read a few week's worth of posts here to see what "issues" there might be. I passed on one - don't remember which - because of the pain it caused, but all the others have worked fine - and many had noticeable improvements.


Ditto.....have downloaded pretty much every upgrade, and installed it without a hich. Half the time there is improvement of some sort

the last time i spoke with someone at denon, they sent the firmware CD right away. Download is even faster! you'll need to burn three cd's i think.

Wow...I requested the firmware discs from their site about 3 months ago and never received them. Maybe I should call instead.

Wow...I requested the firmware discs from their site about 3 months ago and never received them. Maybe I should call instead.

If you have a CD burner do both. Request a copy via mail and burn your own. I request one via mail and burn my own. When the Denon copy arrives I toss the homemade one.

Don't ask me why I do this as I have no idea. I've never use the Denon copy when it arrives since I've already done the update.

Wow...I requested the firmware discs from their site about 3 months ago and never received them. Maybe I should call instead.
Same here.

Anyone here use his/her 3910 via component output? I purchased mine primarily for its audio capabilities, so video is not my primary concern. However, I'm having macroblocking issues, so I'm going to try using the component outs and letting my TV up-convert the signal. What have your experiences been in using the component output? How does the picture compare to using the HDMI?

I really wish I could output 480i via HDMI. I don't really want to use an analog connection, but it's better than macroblocking. I'm going to see how I like it, but I still have a while to return. Thanks for any response.

Rob

Same here.
I offered to mail you the discs a few weeks ago...PM me if you're interested.

Jason

AAAARRRGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

I went to the website and downloaded the upgrade, unzipped the files and burned each file on it's own disk. I then loaded each disk like it said and everything was fine. The new firmware numbers matched up and I was feeling pretty good.....

then I hit step 3: Verify your software.

I did it exactly as it requested, but when it says "press the numeric buttons "3 2 6 5" nothing happens with the DVD player. I press the menu button but the four version numbers never show anywhere in the display.

Then I start reading Step 4: Initialize the player (required)

I start thinking since step 3 didn't say required it may have not been needed so I go ahead to step four. Again, I do exactly as it says, but I can't get the "Initialize" to display in the window.

Anybody else have any of these problems? I would hate to think I'm just an idiot.....

AAAARRRGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

I went to the website and downloaded the upgrade, unzipped the files and burned each file on it's own disk. I then loaded each disk like it said and everything was fine. The new firmware numbers matched up and I was feeling pretty good.....

then I hit step 3: Verify your software.

I did it exactly as it requested, but when it says "press the numeric buttons "3 2 6 5" nothing happens with the DVD player. I press the menu button but the four version numbers never show anywhere in the display.

Then I start reading Step 4: Initialize the player (required)

I start thinking since step 3 didn't say required it may have not been needed so I go ahead to step four. Again, I do exactly as it says, but I can't get the "Initialize" to display in the window.

Anybody else have any of these problems? I would hate to think I'm just an idiot.....

Greetings,

Be sure to follow these insturctions to check the firmware version on your 3910:


Start with the unit " On "

1.Turn the small power button off on the front of the unit.
2.Hold down the PLAY and OPEN/CLOSE buttons on the front of the unit, both at the same time.
3.Turn the power back on and continue holding the buttons for 3 seconds, then let go.
4.After “>II LOADING” shows on the display, press the 3,2,6,5 buttons on the remote (in that order) and then press the MENU button on the remote to see the version.


Initially I can recall having a problem checking the firmware version.

If you followed the upgrade instructions to the letter then I am pretty confident that you properly upgraded your machine. Like others here, I too have performed roughly 4 to 5 firmware downloads/upgrades with not issues.

Regards,

I offered to mail you the discs a few weeks ago...PM me if you're interested.

Jason
At that time I requested the discs from their web site for the 2nd time, but still have not received them. I'll try emailing them, and if that doesn't work, I can just download them myself. Thanks for your offer, but I'll be OK. I've just been too busy to follow-up with Denon to more expediciously take care of it.

well I give up, i followed the instructions and still can't get it to verify or initialize. I guess I'll call Denon tomorrow and see if they can troubleshoot it. Frick'n pisses me off though...

well I give up, i followed the instructions and still can't get it to verify or initialize. I guess I'll call Denon tomorrow and see if they can troubleshoot it. Frick'n pisses me off though...

Have you tried playing a DVD on it? Is it functional and you just can't check the firmware version or is is DOA?

well I give up, i followed the instructions and still can't get it to verify or initialize. I guess I'll call Denon tomorrow and see if they can troubleshoot it. Frick'n pisses me off though...

I had the same issue when I first tried to do the firmware status (friking pain in the arss :mad: ) From what I remember you can't do this unless the unit is ON(not in stand-by mode), while the unit is ON turn off the power to the unit by depressing the small power button. You can then press the appropriate buttons on the player's front panel and then power it up with the small button, enter the 3, 2, 6, 5 buttons. Remember the key here is to have the unit power ON prior to switching it OFF via the hard power button otherwise it will not work.

Good luck... ;)

I think I've tried it every way possible, I even stood on my head and tried it but to no avail....

The DVD's work fine.....CD's fine...... SACD.....crash & burn.....

It's one thing to have your wife look at you like you're an idiot, but once the dog starts doing it.....you know you've got problems.....

The DVD's work fine.....CD's fine...... SACD.....crash & burn.....

It's one thing to have your wife look at you like you're an idiot, but once the dog starts doing it.....you know you've got problems.....

SACD's don't play at all, or do they start to play then skip or cut out completely?

Have you tried to download and burn the discs again and reinstall?

I thought about that, didn't want to go there yet. I'll call Denon and see what they say.

But to answer your question, nothing on the SACD...notta....

I thought about that, didn't want to go there yet. I'll call Denon and see what they say.

But to answer your question, nothing on the SACD...notta....

Re-flash again with the latest firmware. I had your exact problem where I couldn't check versions, so I re-burnt my CDs and religeously followed the instructions. When I completed it the second time, everything was peachy.

Bigpickn
What burning software?

Roxio...version 7

I couldn't find anywhere to adjust the speed to the slowest burn, I wonder if thats the problem? It burned at the fastest speed

Roxio...version 7

I couldn't find anywhere to adjust the speed to the slowest burn, I wonder if thats the problem? It burned at the fastest speed

I used an older version, Easy CD Creator 5. The important part is to make sure you are selecting Data CD Project and then ISO 9660 (found at the very bottom - double click to change it if it's not showing ISO 9660). It should then allow you to burn at the slowest speed. I used 4x as I recall and had no problems.

Roxio...version 7

I couldn't find anywhere to adjust the speed to the slowest burn, I wonder if thats the problem? It burned at the fastest speed

I'm using Nero, but have used Roxio in the past. Check your documentation for the burn speed adjustment. It's more or less a basic feature.

You would think, I also had easy creator 5 before moving to 7. I liked 5 alot better. I put a call into Denon today, the receptionist was very nice, but I was on hold for over an hour trying to get to someone from technical support. When she came on for the nineth time wantting to know if I wanted to keep holding I almost went off on her. Long story short, she was going to walk back and get the disks and mail them to me. She said they were extremely short handed. I felt like saying "for the price we pay for your product you think you would be able to hire some people!!!" but I didn't, not her fault management sucks.

This is prime vacation time! Everyone is short handed. Roxio is hard to set up for the most average burns. Use creator classic. If you carefully check all the File->project properties, you may be able to get the mode 1 and isso9660 settings right. Make sure not to create a multi-session disk.

Firmware upgraders might want to take Denon's suggestion to use a CD-RW disc and burn it like a CD-R. That way if it comes out bad, it can be erased and done over.

Not to metion the fact that CD-RW write at much slower speeds than CD-R's.

I would be interested in any feedback from 3910 owners on the degree of macroblocking you've seen, particularly any of you that happen to own one of the new Samsung 1080P DLP sets. From what a couple of AVS members have noted, MB is a problem with these sets, but much less noticeable than with some of the less expensive Denon players. I'm trying to determine if the MB is noticeable enough to constantly annoy me, or if it's relatively infrequent on only pops up on occasion. If at all possible I'd like to go with the Denon, since I am also purchasing a 4806 receiver and want to take advantage of DenonLink. Plus, over the years I've had nothing but great success with Denon equipment. Also, if there are specific scenes from DVD's which can clearly demonstrate the MB, I would be interested in knowing them, as perhaps I can convince a local dealer to hook up a 3910 to one of the Samsungs so that I can see this for myself. Thanks!

I would be interested in any feedback from 3910 owners on the degree of macroblocking you've seen, particularly any of you that happen to own one of the new Samsung 1080P DLP sets. From what a couple of AVS members have noted, MB is a problem with these sets, but much less noticeable than with some of the less expensive Denon players. I'm trying to determine if the MB is noticeable enough to constantly annoy me, or if it's relatively infrequent on only pops up on occasion. If at all possible I'd like to go with the Denon, since I am also purchasing a 4806 receiver and want to take advantage of DenonLink. Plus, over the years I've had nothing but great success with Denon equipment. Also, if there are specific scenes from DVD's which can clearly demonstrate the MB, I would be interested in knowing them, as perhaps I can convince a local dealer to hook up a 3910 to one of the Samsungs so that I can see this for myself. Thanks!

I have never noticed MB on my Sony HS20 (LCD projector).

What does It mean when theirs two small black circles filled In on the box vs two small circles that are not filled? Thanks

Could someone describe the gamma correction (settings) this player has? Does it allow you to adjust gamma at differtent points alone the gamma curve?

Thanks,

Grant

I just checked the manual for the 3910 and the gamma correction doesn't appear to be active over DVI while the 5910's gamma correction is active over DVI! What a shame for the 3910, IMO.

Cheers,

Grant

I just checked the manual for the 3910 and the gamma correction doesn't appear to be active over DVI while the 5910's gamma correction is active over DVI! What a shame for the 3910, IMO.

Cheers,

Grant

Ahh, come on now, there had to be some differences between the 3910 and the 5910 or no one would buy the 5910. :)

Doesn't your display have memory positions with custom adjustments?

Anyone have a 3910 with a sony gw3? What are your experienced? any MB?

Anyone have a 3910 with a sony gw3? What are your experienced? any MB?


I have a 3910 and a GW3 (XBR), connected via DVI.

No MB whatsoever.

Anyone have a 3910 with a sony gw3? What are your experienced? any MB?

I also have a GWIII with my 3910. I see MB on very rare occasions, but I don't think it's attributed to the 3910 more so than the source. I used umr's tweak settings to set up my GWIII to the 3910 via DVI. The picture quality is EXCELLENT!

that sounds good... i heard the MD issue was permanately fixed in a firmware fix. Is that true?

Are there any other dvd players in this price range that i should also be considering?

I'll be purchasing a Denon AVR 4806 as well.

that sounds good... i heard the MD issue was permanately fixed in a firmware fix. Is that true?

Are there any other dvd players in this price range that i should also be considering?

I'll be purchasing a Denon AVR 4806 as well.

Just keep in mind that no player is perfect so if you're looking for that player you won't find it. However, you can find one of the best in the 3910. The bechmark testing that was done on this unit far exceeds any other at twice the price. All I can say is that it's performed for me. It is it the perfect player? NO, but it's damn close. ;)

I totally agree with you... one of the reasons why i'm planning to purchase the 3910 is that i'll be pairing it up with a denon 4806.

I also heard that the audio is nice with the 3910 and for the price its the best value compared to other dvd's in its price range.

the only issue that i'm concerned about is the MB.. but after reading the boards it appears that the MB is rare and dependent on display type. I'll give it a shot and see how it works for me and my gw3.

The only issue that i'm concerned about is the MB.. but after reading the boards it appears that the MB is rare and dependent on display type. I'll give it a shot and see how it works for me and my gw3.

I also have never seen macroblocking on my XBR. Paired with your choice of receiver, you should be very happy with the audio also.

Just installed my avr 4806 and 3910... watched sin city and saving private ryan and i saw no MB... i got some totem rainmakers for my speakers.

So far so good... very nice picture.

Just installed my avr 4806 and 3910... watched sin city and saving private ryan and i saw no MB... i got some totem rainmakers for my speakers.

So far so good... very nice picture.



How are you hooking It up? What are your settings? Thanks

dvd connects to the reciever via hdmi, receiver into the tv with hdmi-dvi cable

i like the switching capability of the reciever. I just leave the tv on one input and let the 4806 switch everything.

Quick question I am using my 3910 with a 3805 - For DVD playback should I use the CD EXT analog input from the 3910 to get DD Or do I have to use a digital input for the DVDs ?
I know the analog inputs are better for cds & to listen to DVDA Or Sacds .

antman27
EXT is great if you want to use the 3910 dacs, but if you use auto eq you need to go with dlink for all. The 3910 dacs are superior, but some of us use the 3805 dacs with the eq for our own reasons. Speakers? Room?

Absolutely...there are many in that boat, myself included. Now that DL3 passes everything, that's all I use and I let my 3805 do all of the processing and take advantage of the auto-eq/room correction features. I know that the DACs in the 3910 are superior, and I thoroughly enjoyed 2-channel music and SACD via analog, but being able to use the 3805's processing outweighs whatever small advantage the 3910's DACs might have.

Jason

I do not have the DLINK conected I have the analogs & a Digital coax . can I use the room eq with the digital or do I need to use the Dlink ? How do I set up the room eq >

I would ditch the digital coax and instead use the Denon Link cable. Leave your analog cables connected and after setting up the Room EQ you can compare the Denon Link (with EQ) digital connection vs. analog Pure Direct (no EQ applied) using the 3910's DAC's, and judge for yourself what sounds better on your speakers with your room characteristics.

I assume you've run the 3805's Auto EQ program? You need to do this, and then activate whichever EQ slope (Normal, Flat or Front) you prefer in the menu.

I have not parsed through the whole 3910 Owners thread to see if this question has already been answered, but...

Can anyone tell me if there is a difference in the PQ between the DVI output and the HDMI output on the 3910? I know that with some other brands (Samsung, for example) there is a difference, especially with passing BTB and WTW.

Thanks in advance!

Most problems were with mixing DVI/HDMI connections (unless it's been corrected with firmware, this caused black crush with the 3910). Going HDMI-to-HDMI or DVI-to-DVI should give comparable PQ.

Offtopic comment here guys, but I am getting a little tired of people who come on these forums and start hating on a particular player or brand, and comment about it in EVERY freakin thread, etc!

Christ, I find myself posting the same crap over and over just to bring some sanity to newcomers who get poisoned about the same stupid sh!t every time..... "oh, the 3910 is the same as the 2910 and they suck", "oh macroblocking is unnacceptable, you should NOT consider the 3910", and my favorite "no need to compare it to a 9500, a marantz 7600 will blow its socks off".... http://www.99smiles.com/banghead.gif

man, I try not to say anything but sometimes I can't take it.....I can just imagine if I was a newcomer and asked about a good universal DVD player and someone posted some stupid stuff like that...it would make me seriously doubt about even looking at a denon player.

anwyays......just venting off....sorry for the temporary change of subject!

ssabripo, you should spend some time in the rear displays forum. There sure are a lot of "mine is better than yours" and "brand x sucks" fights there.

ssabripo, you should spend some time in the rear displays forum. There sure are a lot of "mine is better than yours" and "brand x sucks" fights there.


I don't browse the rear display forums except for the GWIV tweaks thread and the XS955 owner's thread.....i don't have time for the "dlp vs lcd" wars or the "samsung vs sony" wars, etc...

oddly enough, the speakers and subwoofers subforums are much more civilized....heated discussion, but backed with facts and data, not some asshat saying the "no need to even go to a 9500, the 7600 marantz will blow the 3910's socks off" stupid non-sense

oddly enough, the speakers and subwoofers subforums are much more civilized....
Not if you mention Onix or Rockets. Then the trolls act up until the thread gets locked.

ssabripo
haters.... you just can't hate them enough....
I don't know why there are so many trolls and haters out there, but hey, this is the biggest av forum on the planet, (until most of china goes online) so we are going to get them. The best thing is NOT to overburden our poor forum moderators with complaints, but to deal with them ourselves. Aggravating, but until we can get them to really get off topic and nasty, the moderators have no good recourse. Hit 'em with a "pitchfork", just not an off topic and nasty pitchfork.

Brilliant yet disturbing advice...yet brilliant, I think...:D

Jason (disturbed?)

ssabripo
haters.... you just can't hate them enough....
I don't know why there are so many trolls and haters out there, but hey, this is the biggest av forum on the planet, (until most of china goes online) so we are going to get them. The best thing is NOT to overburden our poor forum moderators with complaints, but to deal with them ourselves. Aggravating, but until we can get them to really get off topic and nasty, the moderators have no good recourse. Hit 'em with a "pitchfork", just not an off topic and nasty pitchfork.

Ignore them or hit them with our rapier-like wit

Ignore them or hit them with our rapier-like wit


I try to ignore them, specially if its an ocassional thing, but we have these resident trolls and haters that pretty much in every single post from a newcomer asking for recommendations and the subject of the 3910 comes out, they are all over it.....I mean, really, they need to get a life! :mad:

But, my HDMI cable is better than yours, so you clearly don't know what you're talking about!

But, my HDMI cable is better than yours, so you clearly don't know what you're talking about!

:D

Any of you using the 3910 with a Samsung 1080p display? Apparently it uses the same chip as the Oppo DVD player, which apparently works nicely with the DLP, I'm just wondering if the Denon is the same.

- D

Any of you using the 3910 with a Samsung 1080p display? Apparently it uses the same chip as the Oppo DVD player, which apparently works nicely with the DLP, I'm just wondering if the Denon is the same.

- D
My 3910 works great with my 720p HLN Samsung DLP (no MB whatsoever). However, there are a few posts that claim MB with any of the Faroudja players and the new 1080p DLPs. The 3910 does have less MB than most other Faroudja players. But, if those posts are correct, neither the Oppo nor the 3910 would be a great match. Has anyone used a 1080p Samsung with the 3910 or any other Faroudja player?

In another thread on DVD players for 1080p Samsungs, it has been reported that MB may be occasionally seen with Faroudja players, but is not a major problem.

Does anyone know of some good DVD scenes where the MB is clearly evident on the 3910? I want to check this out first hand at my local Samsung dealer before spending the bucks on one of the new 1080p sets.

I've never had true mb on my HS10...an occasional compression artifact here and there, but no swimming/flowing macroblocking. I'd maybe bring along one of the Matrix flicks (for dark fast scenes), a Pixar movie (for vibrant color and detail), and maybe something like Sin City (to check B&W performance).

Jason

My 3910 works great with my 720p HLN Samsung DLP (no MB whatsoever). However, there are a few posts that claim MB with any of the Faroudja players and the new 1080p DLPs. The 3910 does have less MB than most other Faroudja players. But, if those posts are correct, neither the Oppo nor the 3910 would be a great match. Has anyone used a 1080p Samsung with the 3910 or any other Faroudja player?

Well the word over the Sammy 1080p Owners thread is that the Oppo works lovely, and the 3910 is "ok" or "bad" some people have even returned the 3910 for the Oppo. I think I'll be going with the oppo then getting a new player for HDDVD or BluRay

- D

Daphoid, that's fine, although you may want to consider the Panny S77 and Denon 1920 as well. My reading of those posts was that people were opting for the Oppo based on cost, not problems with the 3910.

Well the word over the Sammy 1080p Owners thread is that the Oppo works lovely, and the 3910 is "ok" or "bad" some people have even returned the 3910 for the Oppo. I think I'll be going with the oppo then getting a new player for HDDVD or BluRay

- D

Honestly, I don't think I'd trust an oppo owner, especially one who swapped a 3910 for it, to render an objective opinion on the 3910.

Well the 3910 has been getting awesome reviews everywhere, but it DOES seem to have some problems with the 1080p Samsung's and a few other displays, I haven't found a Samsung owner using a 3910 yet, yet lots of people seem happy with the Oppo.. I just want a solid player and the best picture with my particular display, this seems like a harder choice then it seems.

- D

Well the 3910 has been getting awesome reviews everywhere, but it DOES seem to have some problems with the 1080p Samsung's and a few other displays, I haven't found a Samsung owner using a 3910 yet, yet lots of people seem happy with the Oppo.. I just want a solid player and the best picture with my particular display, this seems like a harder choice then it seems.

- D


This is the magic point. No manufacturer can create something that is perfect with all other manufacturers products. Small differences in standards implementations, particularly when they are emerging standards, can create mismatches.

My 3910 works exceptionally well with my Sony HS51. Best DVD player I have had (and I have a 5900 and a 1600 Denon as well as a few pioneers). The point is it is a great combination so I am pleased.

YMMV with the Samsung.

Perhaps the Oppo is a better combination with Samsung. :)

Well the 3910 has been getting awesome reviews everywhere, but it DOES seem to have some problems with the 1080p Samsung's and a few other displays, I haven't found a Samsung owner using a 3910 yet, yet lots of people seem happy with the Oppo.. I just want a solid player and the best picture with my particular display, this seems like a harder choice then it seems.

- D

IMO, the oppo may be the best $200 player in the world; heck, it may even be the best $500 player in the world but, also IMO, it is not as good as the 3910. By a few measures, perhaps. But by all of the different criteria that one *should* use to choose, the 3910 is superior. Sometimes people let the incredible valus of a piece of gear cloud their judgement as to its proper place in the grand schemem of things.

How can the Denon give problems and the oppo not?? That makes no sense because they both use the faroudja chip. If anything the denon should be better. If they had the all the same fewatures in every catagory then you might have a point other then that you can not compare them.

How can the Denon give problems and the oppo not?? That makes no sense because they both use the faroudja chip. If anything the denon should be better.

If you figure that out, you'll probably be drafted by some A/V mfg to write firmware.

Honestly, I don't think I'd trust an oppo owner, especially one who swapped a 3910 for it, to render an objective opinion on the 3910.

I own both.

The 3910 is without question a better all around player.

The Oppo gives a very nice picture but not as good as the 3910. I own the oppo for other reasons, and for those reasons it is a great player.

if you are budget-minded (which i'm sure most samsung dlp owners are), and you are only looking to get a good picture to display, the oppo is a good choice for the money. but, you have to be aware of its present problems/issues and determine whether you can live with them. finally, you need to know whether there are issues with your particular display.

when i'm watching commercial dvds, i use the 3910...sometimes i'll use the oppo if i'm watching something with my kids just to keep tabs on the sync issues, etc.

True...

Well the issue for me is this:

I've heard more then one person say "yes the oppo works good with the Samsung 1080p DLP's"

I have not heard this from a Denon 3910 owner, if I heard it from a few I'd be happy to go with the 3910.

Bearing the above in mind, there's no place local for me to get Denon products so I have to get a ride down to Toronto (1.5 hours drive from me) and buy it there. This is not a problem, however if I get it home and it looks bad, I'd have to return it and that's not an easy deal, I'd probably have to pay my buddy $40 in gas if I had to go down there twice.

Essentially I'm just looking for some reassurance from someone with this combination before I go and save up, then spend my money.

- D

the store that carries the 3910, does it also stock the 1080p sammy dlps? if so, see if they will demo it for you so that you don't have to make two trips. i guess there are no 3910 owners that also own the new samsungs...

i can provide you reassurance that it looks great with the Qualia 006 and therefore i would presume it will look great with the new SXRD sets, but that doesn't help you :)

UCSB (Bill), the guy who's been handling all this Samsung insanity and keeping the threads up to date had this to say:

D ... I don't think anyone is saying the OPPO is a better player than the 3910. What I was saying was since the 3910 has some macroblocking problems, I would not spend the $1200 or so on the player. I would wait until the next generation Denon if you want a Denon to match your reciever. While you are waiting the OPPO at $199 is a player that you can use and enjoy. It has a nice picture (but since it used the same Genesis FL2310 as the 3910) will also have occassional macroblocking. The Panasonic S97 has a similar picture and would also be a good choice. If you want to avoid the macroblocking than the Sony DVP-NS975V would be the way to go. If you want to buy a higher-end premium player right now the Pioneer 59AVi (or its successor 79AVi next month) is a better bet than the 3910.

I'm going to make my big investment in a player after HD is available.

With your vision problems, you may not detect the macroblocking on the OPPO or S97. Since you are using a receiver that can set AV sync on each input you can go with either the OPPO, S97 or Sony 975.

Seems like a very good suggestion to me. My budget is pretty much tapped at the moment with this TV, and saving $200 USD vs. $1500USD is a good point in my book.

I'm positive the 3910 is a solid player, however I think it'd be better to go with a decent player now, then wait til the HD and/or Bluray thing is sorted out and THEN buy a sweet player, say the Denon 3920, or whatever it'll be called.

Agreed?

- D

Daphoid, if you read that quote carefully, you will see no mention that the 3910 has worse MB than the Oppo. His opinion to get the Oppo is based solely on the price differential.

To be honest, I would get the Panny S97 or S77 or Denon 1920 if I were you. Most reports are that they are a little better than the Oppo. All will apparently have slight MB problems with the 1080p Samsungs. If you are really worried about MB, then the new Sony upscaling players might be the way to go. Since you stated elsewhere that you are not interested in audio, and you are strapped for cash, the 3910 is really not your best option at this point.

BillP:

Good points indeed. I think I've been stuck with the 3910 in my head for so long because it's a solid player on all fronts and pairs with my AVR-3805 extremely well. However since I don't have use for the audio portions (not to say I wouldn't use them, just they're not needed urgently).

The Denon 1920 looks nice, I'm assuming it's a step up from the 1910? I've heard the MB between the 1910, and 2910 & 3910, is quite different, so I'm assuming the 1920 is better?

- D

The 1910 was pretty crappy. The early reviews of the 1920 are nice indeed (there are several threads on the 1920 to check out). I believe UCSB also like the Sony (no MB).

Alright, the 3910 has officially been ruled out due to lack of cash, slight MB problem, and "hey, I'll just wait until HDDVD/BluRay is out to get an expensive player".

Now I'm deciding between:

- Denon DVD-1920 (have to drive 1 hour to get it)
- Sony DVP-NS975V (can probably get this through my installer)
- Panasonic S97 (same for the sony)
- The Oppo player (ships from USA, so possible extra fees [duty andor customs])

Damn decisions, I curse you.

EDIT: Also I don't know if it's an issue, but I'm going to using a 25 foot HDMI cable with this player to reach my TV.

Note that the Sony S975 is being replaced (and I believe the new one is less expensive).

Note that the Sony S975 is being replaced (and I believe the new one is less expensive).

Ah yes I believe someone mentioning that over in the Samsung 1080p thread, I'll have a look.

- D

Alright, the 3910 has officially been ruled out due to lack of cash, slight MB problem, and "hey, I'll just wait until HDDVD/BluRay is out to get an expensive player".

Now I'm deciding between:

- Denon DVD-1920 (have to drive 1 hour to get it)
- Sony DVP-NS975V (can probably get this through my installer)
- Panasonic S97 (same for the sony)
- The Oppo player (ships from USA, so possible extra fees [duty andor customs])

Damn decisions, I curse you.

EDIT: Also I don't know if it's an issue, but I'm going to using a 25 foot HDMI cable with this player to reach my TV.

Dude,

Don't take this the wrong way, but you've been talking about getting a new player (DVD-3910) for at least a year now. Now that you've decided against it, might be best to post in another thread about your potential decsion. Friendly advice from me would be to just pick something and go with it.

*chuckles* no harm intended, I'm the first to admit I'm a perfectionist, but also a over-worrier (is that even a word? I doubt it - I get it from my parents). The problem is my budget has shifted so many times with school expenses, life expenses, then format changes and compatbility throw a wrench into the plans. I'd love a 3910 but it doesn't seem right for me at the moment, hopefully the 3920 will be bliss.

Sorry if I rambled on these past days are so, BillP was being helpful and I just like to get all my questions answered by those who are willing.

- D

I have a 3910/3805 combo using Dlink and I cannot get DTS 5.1 to play on any movies (purchased or rented). I have gone through all of the setups serveral times. There is no DTS indication on the 3910. I can play DD, DVD-A and SACD with no problems but DTS does not work. Any one had/solved this problem?

I have a 3910/3805 combo using Dlink and I cannot get DTS 5.1 to play on any movies (purchased or rented). I have gone through all of the setups serveral times. There is no DTS indication on the 3910. I can play DD, DVD-A and SACD with no problems but DTS does not work. Any one had/solved this problem?

The problem seems to be media specific (some DVD's work fine, some don't). Again, has anyone else experienced this DTS sound problem?

I have the same combination and Denon Link connection, and have never had a problem. After selecting DTS in the disk's audio setup options, the "DTS" logo should appear on both the 3910 and 3805. With the way I have mine set up, in addition to "DTS" on the 3805, I also see indicators for "DIG", "AUTO", "DENON LINK" and "MULTI". Does your's show at least the first three of these, just not the DTS?

I have a 3910/3805 combo using Dlink and I cannot get DTS 5.1 to play on any movies (purchased or rented). I have gone through all of the setups serveral times. There is no DTS indication on the 3910. I can play DD, DVD-A and SACD with no problems but DTS does not work. Any one had/solved this problem?


I do have one DVD-A that is kind of a pain, I don't have the DTS selection on the setup screen although it is a DTS DVD-A. My previous DVD-A player would play it but I had to go through the DVD setup menu and turn on some item I don't remember right at the moment. It would revert back and then I would have to go back and do it all over again. The 3910 will absolutely not display the DTS option on this DVD, I think I've tried everything. I do play all my DVD-A Multi-channel however so it's not an issue for me but it is sort of a pain. I think this has been stated before that if you use the intrnal DAC's it really doesn't matter, it's Multi-cahnnel.

I was watching a R2 Billy Connolly standup yesterday and in the end there are credits that scroll sideways and they looked a combi unreadable mess, when I hit the setup button and began watching again it looked fine. But if I stop and play again it looks dreadfull again. Weird ... some sort of deinterlacing problem?

I have the same combination and Denon Link connection, and have never had a problem. After selecting DTS in the disk's audio setup options, the "DTS" logo should appear on both the 3910 and 3805. With the way I have mine set up, in addition to "DTS" on the 3805, I also see indicators for "DIG", "AUTO", "DENON LINK" and "MULTI". Does your's show at least the first three of these, just not the DTS?

Well it just started working!???

Oh well one of those unsolved audio mysteries. Probably OE.

Thanks for the suggestions.

3910 owners,

I wonder how many of you bought refurbished one now cheaper by $200+. Could you tell me your experience with refubished ones if you had some?

3910 owners,

I wonder how many of you bought refurbished one now cheaper by $200+. Could you tell me your experience with refubished ones if you had some?


I purchased my 3910 from Ubid 6 months ago. No problems so far. Both audio and video quality are exellent. Ubid is authorized by Denon to sell refurbs. and the units come with a one year warranty. You can find a list of authorized "e-tailers" on the Denon website.


Edited to remove pricing.

OK folks, I just went to the next level of viewing. I picked up a previously owned Hitachi 65swx20B from a friend to replace my 61swx12B, hooked up DVI and I've got to tell you the picture is absolutely stunning. I'm scaling up to 1080i and really I'm looking at a HD picture, it's that good. Many thanks to all (especially you BillP) for their advice on the 3910, it far exceeds my expectations in PQ. The only complaint I have is that I wish Denon had put on their remote a Squeeze Mode button, or at least I can't find one if it's there.
I'm one happy camper... :D

3910 owners,

I wonder how many of you bought refurbished one now cheaper by $200+. Could you tell me your experience with refubished ones if you had some?

I got mine from eCost with a big saving. No problems so far.

Any news of any firmware upgrades???

Any news of any firmware upgrades???

Got an email from Denon yesterday saying that the CDs with the latest formware are being sent out this week.

-- loeric ;)

What's the latest firmware (I downloaded from their site 1-2 weeks ago - is there now a newer one)?

I purchased the 3910 a couple of weeks ago and began reading this thread to pick up some advice on settings, tweaks, firmware, etc. I am happy to report that I just finished all 159 pages (move over War & Peace). Unfortunately, I still have some unanswered questions and was hoping some of you folks who are much more knowledgable than I could help me out. One of the more detailed postings (actually it was linked) was by a member, Chris Wiggles. He went into great detail about BTB and IRE. I think I understood most of his post but I'm having trouble with the following:

1). My projector (Infocus 7205) expects PC (studio) levels as opposed to video levels. The 3910 can deliver both. It sends video levels in "normal" mode and PC levels in "enhanced" mode. I learned in another thread that the 7205 can handle video levels but you need to adjust the RGB offsets & gains. So, I tried it both ways and it looked the same (to my untrained eyes). My question is this, since Chris Wiggles said sending video levels is preferable to sending PC levels, should I send video levels (and make the RGB adjustments) even though the projector expects PC levels? Is there a benefit using one over the other?

2). Is question #1 impacted by the fact my projector was built in Oct 04 and doesn't pass BTB?

3). Regarding the IRE setting. I was able to get the same picture using 0 or 7.5 but I had to adjust the brightness. The default setting in the 3910 is 7.5 however it makes the picture seem hazy. I didn't notice it until I switched it to 0. The picture was instantly clearer but also darker. In fact, it was too dark. I guess that is what is referred to as black crush. Again, adjusting the brightness in either setting seems to allow you to get the same picture. Based on this, is there an advantage in using one over the other? Perhaps the setting that requires the least amount of brightness adjustment?

If anyone can help me with this I would be greatly indebted.

P.S. I cannot get the friggin firmware version to show. The exact steps are posted in this thread and I tried it many times but I get no response. Since it's an Oct build date, it's obvious I need an upgrade anyway.

What's the latest firmware (I downloaded from their site 1-2 weeks ago - is there now a newer one)?


yeah....i wanna know too..

last upgrade i did was for the official DL3 stuff, which was about 3-4 weeks ago... :confused:

P.S. I cannot get the friggin firmware version to show. The exact steps are posted in this thread and I tried it many times but I get no response. Since it's an Oct build date, it's obvious I need an upgrade anyway.

You did use the buttons on the unit as opposed to the buttons on the remote, didn't you? (Before using the remote for the numbers.)

You did use the buttons on the unit as opposed to the buttons on the remote, didn't you? (Before using the remote for the numbers.)


Yes, I used the units hard buttons for turning it off, holding play & open, and turning it back on. I'll keep trying it. Thanks for the help.

Yes, I used the units hard buttons for turning it off, holding play & open, and turning it back on. I'll keep trying it. Thanks for the help.

Since posting my previous reply I went to my units - 3910 & 2910 - and tried it. Initially, I could not get it to display the version info. I re-read the instructions and tried it again. This time I pressed the remote's "menu" button and bingo! Having it off, holding "play" & "open/close", turning the unit on, releasing after three seconds and then pressing 3-2-6-5 on the remote is not enough; the display will remain unchanged. But pressing "menu" at that time will cycle the version info. Also, turn on the unit with the soft power button, remove any disc and THEN turn the unit off with the hard power button before doing the play-open/close routine.

Please post your results.

Got an email from Denon yesterday saying that the CDs with the latest formware are being sent out this week.

-- loeric ;)

The latest fw version which I received recently is:

ESS-6609-B MAKEDAY-413D SYS-6767-5 CNE-1028

July 2005

Since posting my previous reply I went to my units - 3910 & 2910 - and tried it. Initially, I could not get it to display the version info. I re-read the instructions and tried it again. This time I pressed the remote's "menu" button and bingo! Having it off, holding "play" & "open/close", turning the unit on, releasing after three seconds and then pressing 3-2-6-5 on the remote is not enough; the display will remain unchanged. But pressing "menu" at that time will cycle the version info. Also, turn on the unit with the soft power button, remove any disc and THEN turn the unit off with the hard power button before doing the play-open/close routine.

Please post your results.

It worked! I don't think it was pressing the menu button that did it because I had always been doing that. The two things I did differently this time were turning it on with the soft button prior to turning it off with the hard button and removing the disc. I am not sure which of these did the trick but at least one of them was mandatory in my case.

Firmware: ESS 6609-5 / Make Day 831 / DRV 030825 / System 6767-3 / DSP 6770 / CNE 20640609

Do you know how many upgrades there have been since this one or is that even important? I ordered the upgrade from the website today via mail but I'm not sure they will send it. I downloaded it the other day but had to "restore" my computer and lost everything on it. The website said you only get one chance to download it so I may be out of luck.

Thanks for all your help.

Firmware: ESS 6609-5 / Make Day 831 / DRV 030825 / System 6767-3 / DSP 6770 / CNE 20640609

Do you know how many upgrades there have been since this one or is that even important? I ordered the upgrade from the website today via mail but I'm not sure they will send it. I downloaded it the other day but had to "restore" my computer and lost everything on it. The website said you only get one chance to download it so I may be out of luck.

Thanks for all your help.

holy crap.....yes man, you got several upgrades after that...you need to goto denonusa's site and download the firmware...you will need 3 CDs. And no, you don't have to download it once...

I'm sure someone here still has the files, they can post for you...

It worked! I don't think it was pressing the menu button that did it because I had always been doing that. The two things I did differently this time were turning it on with the soft button prior to turning it off with the hard button and removing the disc. I am not sure which of these did the trick but at least one of them was mandatory in my case.

Firmware: ESS 6609-5 / Make Day 831 / DRV 030825 / System 6767-3 / DSP 6770 / CNE 20640609

Do you know how many upgrades there have been since this one or is that even important? I ordered the upgrade from the website today via mail but I'm not sure they will send it. I downloaded it the other day but had to "restore" my computer and lost everything on it. The website said you only get one chance to download it so I may be out of luck.

Thanks for all your help.

I'm pretty sure I've got the latest firmware version - July '05 I think.

ESS 6609-B
MAKE DAY 330
DRV 030825
SYSTEM 6767-5
DSP 6770
C 20041028

I've uploaded the latest version to my website. Download it here (http://www.peparsplace.com/D31ZSAVD.zip). I'll leave it up for the weekend, or until you post that you've got it.

Yeah, I checked their site and the firmware available is just the DL3 upgrade (3 disc). I don't believe there's a new firmware upgrade available, but maybe I'm missing it.

Jason

Just had my 3910 in for the BTB fix.Don't care for DL3 as I have Parasound Halo C2 prosessor and with no plans to change.But I told them I would like to have the latest firmware possible.
They told me to wait for a week.My player was returned to me the 2nd.Sep with a firmware
with makeday 831.This may be a new one or a old one,but I don't care 'couse it fixed the problem I had with dropouts on the DVD side on several DualDisc's.Sound and picture are as
good as it get's.

Firmware: ESS 6609-5 / Make Day 831 / DRV 030825 / System 6767-5 / DSP 6770 / C 20041028

Just had my 3910 in for the BTB fix.Don't care for DL3 as I have Parasound Halo C2 prosessor and with no plans to change.But I told them I would like to have the latest firmware possible.
They told me to wait for a week.My player was returned to me the 2nd.Sep with a firmware
with makeday 831.This may be a new one or a old one,but I don't care 'couse it fixed the problem I had with dropouts on the DVD side on several DualDisc's.Sound and picture are as
good as it get's.

Firmware: ESS 6609-5 / Make Day 831 / DRV 030825 / System 6767-5 / DSP 6770 / C 20041028

I too have DualDisc DVD-side drop-outs. Looks like the latest US version doesn't have the fix that you got in the Euro version. Denon never replied to my email regarding this. My fw version is:
ESS 6609-B
MAKE DAY 413D
DRV 030825
SYSTEM 6767-5
DSP 6770
CNE 20041028

This is the latest, right?

I too have DualDisc DVD-side drop-outs. Looks like the latest US version doesn't have the fix that you got in the Euro version. Denon never replied to my email regarding this. My fw version is:
ESS 6609-B
MAKE DAY 413D
DRV 030825
SYSTEM 6767-5
DSP 6770
CNE 20041028

This is the latest, right?

Yes, it is. Mine is one behind because I do not use DL3 and have decided to take a pess on it.

So dumb question what am I dooing wrong . 3910 hooked up to my samsung hln507W DVI ,TV set to DVI Wide input .I put in a dvd that is labled 1.85 & it showes up with bars on top & bottom like a scope film What Gives >>