Can you run HDMI out to DVI in? If yes, will HDMI handle 45 feet of run and where can I get an adaptor?

Yes, you can run HDMI out to DVI in. It is done quite commonly these days. The Denon 3910 reportedly has the HDMI/DVI Blacker than Black bug when doing that, however -- NOTE: firmware fix on the way.

That bug aside, HDMI is, by design, backward compatible with DVI. An HDMI/DVI adapter cable or adapter plug literally just switches wires around to the right pins for the different style plug -- there is no active processing going on in the cable or adapter plug. When the source and destination connect, a handshake is performed that tells the HDMI source the display wants to be thought of as DVI. The source then locks into the DVI standard. [HDCP -- copy protection -- compliance is checked at the same time.] The same happens in reverse if you hook a DVI source to an HDMI display.

Keep in mind that DVI does *NOT* include audio signals. So if you want audio to get there as well you will need to run separate audio from the source to the display.

If both source and destination are discovered to be HDMI during this handshake, then there are ALTERNATE standards available which provide higher bit depth and YCbCr format vs. RGB format for the video. The handshake then goes on to select the best bandwidth/format supported at both ends. This is for future expansion since commonly available displays today that include HDMI input don't yet take advantage of any of this -- they use only the DVI standards albeit via the HDMI plug.

The HDMI transmitter and receiver circuits mandated by the HDMI standard have additional electronic equalization which allows for error free connections over longer cables than with DVI to DVI. Presumably that also makes the HDMI circuits a bit more expensive. There is no intended difference in the cables however. You just have to get the right plug at each end.

As far as I can tell, it is *NOT* safe to assume you'll get any advantage of this if you cable HDMI out to DVI in or vice versa. As usual with cabling limits, the specific characteristics of the chips in your particular source and display, cable construction, and sources of interference will all play a role in how long the cable can be before you start to see problems. There may easily be variations within different manufacturing runs of a given model from any vendor, although all will meet a minimum level of compliance with the standard.

As I understand it, DVI cable lengths up to only roughly 10 feet are guaranteed to be safe, but many people have successfully used longer cables, and cable companies will cheerfully sell you longer cables. That is, there's enough safety factor in the standard and in how manufacturers have implemented it to give you a pretty good shot that longer cables will work.

Companies like Gefen sell DVI repeater boxes which pass through a regenerated signal for folks having problems. Make sure you get a box that's intended for Home Theater use (i.e., it passes through HDCP compliance from the display) as opposed to boxes designed for connecting computers to their displays. The Gefen and Dtronics DVI switcher boxes also regenerate the signal. Thus you can use a maximum length cable on either side of them. That is, they act as a repeater as well as a switcher.

----------------------------------------------------

A number of Forum Sponsors here sell HDMI/DVI cables and adapter plugs. You might want to check the Power Buys forum for any deals currently available.

I believe even Monster Cable offers such cables through places like Best Buy.

Be aware that the markup on cables is enormous. Before shopping, be sure to learn the Home Theater enthusiasts pledge: Open your wallet and repeat after me, "Help Yourself!"
--Bob

Originally posted by placidman
At any rate, you will have to post back when you have your 3910/HS10 combo up and running.
Sure I will. Will take another 2 months at least, I think. 3910 not yet out here (delayed to mid Nov) and first want to check out if PQ is really much better than my current setup, also for my maybe not-so-specially-videophile eyes.
Have currently an old, simple Panny A160 player over S-VHS on my HS10 ... I know, in theory the difference should be huge ... but I want to see with my own eyes first before spending that much money :)

Bob Pariseau:
Thanks for the info. I am presently running 46 feet using a DVI cable through a repeater. Works great most of the time however gets jumpy at 1080 on some DVD's, but is good all around at 720. My Bravo D1 (POS) died and I have just ordered a 3910. Obviously I have an investment in the repeater (isx hundred yollars) and DVI cable so I don't want to throw it away, but if I can use HDMI to DVI and get 1080 without the jumpiness, I will gladly do it.

Andy

I personally have found that 720p is most optimal for my display. I also have been tweaking for a week now and will tweak more once I get my y/c firmware disc from DENON tomorrow. But now I have found myself liking Enhance HDMI/DVI, 0.0 IRE with chroma level at around 4-5, and contrast at 3-4, brightness at 2-4, and I am now using a DVI to DVI m500 Monster cable. I have now been noticing NO difference between using dvi/dvi or HDMI to DVI. Before the HDMI to DVI was looking a little better, but now after many hours of tweaking I have the DVI looking as good or better. I know they are suppose to be exactly the same, but I still think it depends on everyone's display. The firmware disc may even (should) offer a little bit more of an improvement with my picture (atleast where the Y/C delay is important). I put the movie Cat in te Hat in for my nephews and nieces today and the picture with the vivid colors was quite spectacular. It is getting closer to my D-VHS movies! All of this tweaking really does payoff sometimes....

Originally posted by joerodcowboys
I also have been tweaking for a week now and will tweak more once I get my y/c firmware disc from DENON tomorrow.

Can I ask the best way to obtain this firmware from Denon? And does it fix/correct anything else?

I actually emailed DENON then they emailed me back (sameday) asking me for my address. I then called them to make sure they got it then I was given an engineer. He went over the procedure with me, asked me a few questions about my setup, then said it would help boost better color with dvi, and fix the y/c delay that newer manufactured models have had. My unit was manufactured in JUNE. Hope this helps...

I currently have an HTPC setup, and I was considering to replace with the DVD-3910. How does it compare? Anyone else in the same boat?

timeslip,
I´m on the excact same boat. I´m getting a HTPC this week, and I´m wondering if a 3910 or Pio 59avi would be worth it.

And comparing the two DVD players the Denon has the Denon link which would be great for me, but it has macroblocking(especially with 1080i) and no interlaced HDMI. I´d like to know how much better 1080i looks than 720p on a 1080p display. I remember theBland prefered 1080i, but by how much?
No interlaced HDMI and 1080i with MB, makes the 3910 very 1080p unfriendly doesn´t it?

Does anyone use the 3910 with the screenplay 5700, or other screenplay projectors....any macroblocking visible at 576p/480p?

Thanks,
George

...makes the 3910 very 1080p unfriendly doesn´t it? [/B]

I'm curious about this too as my new DLP is going to be 1080p (sometime next year)

- D

Originally posted by timeslip
I currently have an HTPC setup, and I was considering to replace with the DVD-3910. How does it compare? Anyone else in the same boat? I was using a fairly nice HTPC (TheaterTek) upscaling to a 1:1 pixel panel and the 3910's image was easily superior using 1080i. I didn't do a whole lot of A/Bing but guessing I would think the Denon's 720p image is pretty close to the HTPC's image quality. Typically, I don't use all of the image adjusters within the HTPC though Denon offers quite a few of its own... including V and H Enhancers along with user defined Gammas.

Originally posted by joerodcowboys
I actually emailed DENON then they emailed me back (sameday) asking me for my address. I then called them to make sure they got it then I was given an engineer. He went over the procedure with me, asked me a few questions about my setup, then said it would help boost better color with dvi, and fix the y/c delay that newer manufactured models have had. My unit was manufactured in JUNE. Hope this helps...

Whoa! Who did you email? They never responded to me!! I need the YC fix too - it's REALLY annoying on a 126" screen.

-Jonathan

Email technical department, from the USA DENON page. They will respond back...

Charles,
I thought the MB was worst in 1080i?

Originally posted by joerodcowboys
Email technical department, from the USA DENON page. They will respond back...

Thanks. I may have emailed the wrong dept. doh.

Originally posted by jonapod
Whoa! Who did you email? They never responded to me!! I need the YC fix too - it's REALLY annoying on a 126" screen.

-Jonathan

I just called them toll free (1-800-497-8921; responses after their prompts: 2, then 1, then 2) last Friday AM. I had to leave a voice message, but they called me back that afternoon and promised to mail me my firmware update today (Monday).

It is worst in 1080i. Almost nonexistent in 720P. When it is calibrated right you shouldn;t see a thing...

I hate you guys.
I returned a 5900 I had for a few weeks to get a 3910 which I won't have for another week or two. The sound was beautiful on that thing.

The sound is not that much different on the 3910...The Pic Q is STELLAR to say the least!!!

Originally posted by BillP
I just called them toll free (1-800-497-8921; responses after their prompts: 2, then 1, then 2) last Friday AM. I had to leave a voice message, but they called me back that afternoon and promised to mail me my firmware update today (Monday).

Did they require you to fax them your bill of sale before sending out the upgrade disk?

I ask because it's obvious (since I'm asking) they did require that from me (haven't done it yet though).

Bill

joerodcowboys
Thanks, I need a little encouragement right now. I feel like I cut off an arm or something. Or maybe that's from carrying the thing. The elevator was naturally broken. I was parked like 5 miles from my condo. Then they had no 3910's and offered to let me take it back and use it while waiting for a 3910. It was real hard to say no. My lower back said *%$#!%$*&. Oh well.

Originally posted by Mr. Biggles
Did they require you to fax them your bill of sale before sending out the upgrade disk?

I ask because it's obvious (since I'm asking) they did require that from me (haven't done it yet though).

Bill If you call the 973-396-7499 number more than likely you will reach a nice (young) lady who will send out the update without any faxes, etc. I had called several other numbers which resulted in fax in your details and we have the update but without any instructions so it's not shipping yet...

The nice lady told me no matter whom you talked with at some point they would have to talk with her as she is the one who takes care of it.

Originally posted by Charles R
I had called several other numbers which resulted in fax in your details and we have the update but without any instructions so it's not shipping yet...



That sounds similar to my call except that I was told they would ship it out after I sent a FAX to 630-735-1959 attn: Carroll.

I'll try your # tomorrow Charles. Thanks!!


Bill

I simply sent an email to service (last Thursday the 11th) requesting the update. I had included my address and phone number with the email. They responded about 6 hours later saying they would ship it to me the next morning. No hassle at all. No receipts requested. Simple as pie.

I dont have it yet though.... should be another couple days.

I was never asked to send a fax or anything else. After I called the toll free #, a very nice woman returned my call, took my name and address, and promised to send it to me. Hopefully I'll get it in the next few days.

I ordered the firmware update from Denon yesterday (Oct. 12). Is there a definitive list of items that the firmware resolves? I know the Y/C issue is in the fix. Has anyone confirmed if the fix for the HDMI to DVI conversion black-level issue has been fixed as well. Finally, is there anything else in the firmware?

Originally posted by BillP
I was never asked to send a fax or anything else. After I called the toll free #, a very nice woman returned my call, took my name and address, and promised to send it to me. Hopefully I'll get it in the next few days.

Yep, same here. She said she was putting it in the mail last Friday. I called Thursday night, sent an e-mail Friday morning, and she called me Friday afternoon. On Thursday, they said that they were temporarily out of the discs, but they apparently got more in on Friday.

Jason

For those of us with 576p Matterhorn displays, PAL DVD´s are perfect, but is it possible to scale NTSC to 576p with the 3910 without screwing up the refresh(there must be some artifacts from converting 60hz to 50hz?)?

What resolutions have given the best results with 576p displays?


Also, are there no more opinions on the vertical and horizontal enhancers?

Got my 3910 firmware update CD today. Sheet indicates that it fixes three problems....

1) Chroma spread issue on PAL and HDMI

2) Picture disappears momentarily when switching horizontal position between +6 to +7

3) With progressive component output a white belt appears when using squeeze mode

Code version is ESS-6609-5

affected units

Chroma spread
black xxxxx3499 or lower
silver xxxxx0599 or lower

Picture disappears
black xxxxx2099 or lower
silver xxxxx0399 or lower

White belt
black xxxxx2099 or lower
silver none

Scsiraid,

Is there any indication on how to check the firmware version?

Thanks

Nope.... no mention of how to tell the version installed. Your serial number should give an idea of how far back it is...

Jeez,
you guys have no sympathy. A 'there, there, you will again have a great sounding universal player" would be nice. I'm in obvious pain here.

3910 sounds like a great mate to a 720p lcd like maybe an ae700? Z3?

Originally posted by keyser
Charles,
I thought the MB was worst in 1080i? I'm a D-Theater guy and DVDs play a small part of my theater. Having owned the player for over a month it has played back two or three movies tops.

I have done a fairly large amount of AVIA calibrations and viewing test patterns 1080i clearly looks superior (sharper). I have checked out a few discs for MB, black levels and what not and so far all has been fine. All and all I guess I'm not too picky with DVDs since when even at all their glory D-Theater puts them to shame. Even if MB is a little bit worse (which I haven't seen) why should I give up a superior image 99.99% of the time for the .01% I might see it? I guess that's my entire thought on the whole MB issue.

Charles R
I'm hoping your mb non issues will be mine in the future. I had none with the 5900 and x1. (strange combination)
I hope to have none (.01% or even 1%=none) when I get my 3910 and new projector.
The 5900 spanked my htpc with theatertek in most regards, imho.

Anyone know what serial number range in prod units will be that already have these fixes? Or how to check the firmware version on the player?

Originally posted by Kevin C Brown
Anyone know what serial number range in prod units will be that already have these fixes? Or how to check the firmware version on the player?

This is what works on the 5900 to check the FW,

First, power off the player. Then, with the open/close and play buttons held down, turn the power back on. When you see the play and pause icons appear on the front panel display, hit the enter button on the remote to toggle through the various settings. When finished, power the player off again.

It will give you FW version, make day and some other stuff.

Jim

Originally posted by randman
I ordered the firmware update from Denon yesterday (Oct. 12). Is there a definitive list of items that the firmware resolves? I know the Y/C issue is in the fix. Has anyone confirmed if the fix for the HDMI to DVI conversion black-level issue has been fixed as well. Finally, is there anything else in the firmware?

I am beginning to wonder if the fix is already in for the HDMI to DVI black crush...that or it is display dependent.

I hooked up my 2910 last night to my IF 7200 HDMI to DVI and I was able to get below black info on all test disks (DVE & Avia). My settings were 7.5 IRE, HDMI RGB, Normal. Since the 2910 has just been released, is it possible it is running the 3910s new firmware?

Hi, I am expecting my Mits 62725 today. I have a Denon 3300 receiver. Can anyone here tell me that if I hook up the video/audio to the TV via the 3910's HDMI if the digital audio output will still send audio out, i.e. I want to sent audio only to my surround receiver as well.

THANKS!

Originally posted by Kevin C Brown
Anyone know what serial number range in prod units will be that already have these fixes? Or how to check the firmware version on the player?

affected units

Chroma spread
black xxxxx3499 or lower
silver xxxxx0599 or lower

Picture disappears
black xxxxx2099 or lower
silver xxxxx0399 or lower

White belt
black xxxxx2099 or lower
silver none

Originally posted by scsiraid
affected units

Chroma spread
black xxxxx3499 or lower
silver xxxxx0599 or lower

Picture disappears
black xxxxx2099 or lower
silver xxxxx0399 or lower

White belt
black xxxxx2099 or lower
silver none

Are you saying that all these players have these problems or that the problems have been witnessed within these groups, that seems like an awful lot of units with problems if it's the former.

Jim

The numbers came straight off the letter that came with the firmware update cd... It implies that there are 4100 units with 'down level' firmware. Given that it is a world wide product... thats not a lot of units.

No way to determine from their letter if all units exhibit the issues of just certain units exhibit.

Has anyone else had problems checking their firmware version? I tried the same for the 5900 without luck. Maybe it is something I am doing, I will try again later.....

Originally posted by joerodcowboys
Has anyone else had problems checking their firmware version? I tried the same for the 5900 without luck. Maybe it is something I am doing, I will try again later.....

Are you trying it on the 5900? You need to power off and on the unit with the on/off switch on the front panel, not the remote..

Jim

No actually I am trying it on the 3910. I installed the firmware disc and was curious to see what the display says. And yes I am powering on and off on the unit (not remote). Thanks for replying though, joe

I have a 2 year old Mitsubishi WT42311 HD Ready TV and I am waiting for a 3910 to arrive (my Philips SACD1000 belly flopped two weeks ago and wasn't progressive scan). My TV doesn't have an HDMI input or IEEE 1394 input. I don't want to spend the grand to upgrade it (I would rather spend it towards a new TV or projector). Will the component video input allow me to utilize the 1080 settings properly from the 3910?

No the 3910 will not upconvert though componet. but you will get a great 480p picture that probally will be the best you have seen.

Thanks Kevinca1. I feared that was the answer but I was unsure. I was afraid to ask a stupid question, but the only way to find out was to ask!

Mark

Hi,

After studying many post, is does not seem to be clear what could be the exact cause or combination which leads to the (slight) MB on the 1910/2910/3910/ (i am aware only the 1910 seems to be having "bigger" troubles).

In order to pinpoint this somewhat more i am wondering if anyone has confirmed MB from player to his/hers screen, followed by insertion of an independend scaler (testing 480i mainly).

But in the "Shootout" Kris writes:

"It manifests itself on the 3910 with component 480p output, or 1080i digital output.[...] There were no artifacts at all via DVI and HDMI at 480p and 720p. [...] The other resolutions should [must be "showed"?] very subtle signs of the problem using the test material I have used with all the other Faroudja-based players."

So if MB is also present @480i ("other resolutions") a scaler could not help, one would think. Of course when an SDI modded 3910 is available, it finaly could become clear if the MPEG decoder takes part in the MB feast...

Has anyone else been able to see their firmware version on the 3910? If so how???

Slonk

Welcome to the forum.

If you go back to the thread dealing with the Denon 5900 macroblocking favor, you'll see that the macroblocking is directly attibutable to the faroudja deinterlacer. When output at 480i, the MB doesn't appear.

Originally posted by joerodcowboys
No actually I am trying it on the 3910. I installed the firmware disc and was curious to see what the display says. And yes I am powering on and off on the unit (not remote). Thanks for replying though, joe

What happens when you do the procedure?

Jim

Originally posted by keenan
This is what works on the 5900 to check the FW,

First, power off the player. Then, with the open/close and play buttons held down, turn the power back on. When you see the play and pause icons appear on the front panel display, hit the enter button on the remote to toggle through the various settings. When finished, power the player off again.

It will give you FW version, make day and some other stuff.

Jim

Jim-

I tried this, but I was unsuccessful. The play/pause indicators on the display start to blink, but pressing Enter on the remote doesn't do anything. Anybody else have any suggestions or success with this method?

Jason

Originally posted by JasonColeman
Jim-

I tried this, but I was unsuccessful. The play/pause indicators on the display start to blink, but pressing Enter on the remote doesn't do anything. Anybody else have any suggestions or success with this method?

Jason

Then I guess it must be different for the 3910, sorry.

Jim

It is different...

scsiraid & Jim- Thanks for the info...

Okay, the 3910 arrived and I connected it--Problem. Output is DVI at any resolution (I switched across all). I am outputing into a 45 foot DVI cable with a repeater that worked fine with the Bravo D1 into an Infocus Screenplay 7200. On the 3910, The picture will set up through the infocus for a few scceonds and then the screen goes to static, then it will set up again and go to static, etc. Any ideas??? Again, I know the cable run is long, but I have a $500 repeater and the combination worked well with the Bravo D1 (the D1 died by the way, like most do). H E L P!!

can you try a shorter cable 45 feet is prety long i would think that is the problem. also is your infocus hdcp capable

Trying another cable may help. However that's the purpose of a repeat, it applies for any cable. All a repeater does is 'repeat (duh!) the signal, it's like a little amplifier or booster for the signal strength, the same is quite common for networking and audio applications.

- D

Your repeater might not be HDCP.

- Kirk.

Daphoid
Is the display hdcp compatible?
The repeater may not be, some are not since it worked with a D1, probably not. At 45 feet, a lot can go wrong.

Yesterday my Panasonic ae700 arrived. I've connected it to my 3910 using Supra HDMI cable at 720 progressive mode, and found a problem witch was not possible to detect with my TV (I have the 3910 for 2 weeks now), but I'm not sure if it comes from the 3910.

Maybe you can help me in identifying the source of the problem (I really hope so).

Description: During a movie it only appends once or twice, and only during a fraction of a second, the image fails, appearing a kind of white flash in a portion of the screen, normally a square, but it can take the entire screen too.

It remember me of a computer bug, like in a game when the machine is processing the image, and it stops for a microsecond, or even the cable TV when big squares appear due to the lack of wide band.

I have read about an update that denon have put available ? Is it to solve this ?

Did this description compares with anything that you have knowledge of ?

Ricardo,
Did it happen with a different DVD? The DVD you used could have been dirty. Clean the DVD and try it again. What you describe is what I've seen quite a few times with dirty DVDs I've rented. Since the DVD plays fine most of the time it doesn't sound any known problems or quirks with the 3910.

larry

Ricardo

See if your player's serial number coincides with those listed in this post.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4494476#post4494476

The problem is not with the DVD disks. It repeats with a lot (all ?) of the disks that i have seen. But only after the PJ arrived, and with the HDMI out. Before that i've been using the 3910 with my TV via Scart cable, and no problem was detected.

I've begin to test it with my old sony dvd player, but i've seen only half a movie so far (no problem detected with the PJ in this set up, but i have to test it harder).

When the problem occurred, i rewind the movie to seen if is from the disk, if it persists, but it never appends again.

When i arrive home i'll see the serial number.

I got my 3910 a few days ago, and I am very pleased with it, especially the audio, which is significantly better than my previous 2800. More detail, power, better sound stage on CDs. Very impressed with the bass on CD: much more focussed, natural, showing lots of different timbres. And a bell-like singing clarity in the treble. And I feel that for the first time I am getting truly cinematic sound on DVDs, and this without a sub. The video is great, even tho I am just using component at the moment. I seem to be running it much darker than my 2800, because the resolution of detail in dark sections is much better.

One thing I am confused by is the SOURCE DIRECT option. Can anyone enlighten me on exactly what it does, and when it should be used?

The manual says setting it to 'on' turns off speaker settings (like 'large' and delay settings I presume?); and also turns off 'channel level processing' (does this just mean it turns off the gain you can set in the speaker setup?).

And what does it mean when it says 'the DTS recommended all-channel, full bandwidth playback'? (p. 41). Does that mean it is recommended to use this if you selects a DTS soundtrack?

Thanks in advance for any info.

I have done some back-to back testing with sacds and dvds to see if there is a difference using the internal 3910 dacs vs decoding via digital on my Onkyo701 receiver.

Frankly, I'm amazed at how much better it sounds using the analog outs of the 3910.
The sound stage is wider, cleaner with better bass reproduction and doesn't have the harshness I'm used to from the Onkyo receiver. Unfortunately, I can't use the THX enhancements with the analog inputs to the amp, but it still sounds much more pleasant.

My amp has 192/24 bit DACs too - I just assumed that at that level of DA conversion the difference would be unnoticable.

I'm sticking with analog outs from now on.

-Jonathan

I'm not amazed. The 2910 universal player and 3805 receiver also have 192/24 Burr Brown DACs, but the 3910 DACs sound considerably better. There's more to audio DACs than the bit rate.

Ow!
Stop that. I'm getting excited about this thing!

Problem solved. See previous post. The DVI repeater was causing a problem. I am running DVI out at 1080 using a 45 foot DVI cord and the picture is excellent.

I´m about to order the 3910 from a dealer in the UK, but since this firmware fixes some problems with PAL I´d like to make sure it´s installed. How can I confirm that this firmware has been installed in the player?

It doesn't matter. Just call or email Denon service, and they will send you the firmware update immediately.

BillP, do they include any installation instructions with the CD? I would like to order it before the 3910 arrives so I don't have to re-program all the settings should it make the unit go to all default settings after the download.

is there any place where it can be downloaded? It's only 2meg if it's like the 5900.

Mark-

Glad to see you're picking up a 3910. You'll be very pleased!

Jason

Originally posted by JasonColeman
Mark-

Glad to see you're picking up a 3910. You'll be very pleased!

Jason

Hey Jason, I'm planning to get both the 2910 and 3910 pending a call from my guy at Tweeter, but yesterday he gave me a pretty good offer on the 3910 and was going to make sure his manager will let me get both with the pretext that I will be returning one for full credit. 3910 is not stocked; he has to get it from the Chicago warehouse.

If he will come down another $100 or close, I have decided to end this comparison deal and just get the 3910. We shall see!

Since the player I´ll be getting will be region free, I´m afraid this firmware might screw that up?

I spoke to Denon UK about the same things, unfortunately Denon won't send out the firmware, you have to send (or take in) the unit to their HQ and they'll update it - takes 5 mins...apparantly if you have the firmware update you need to re-run the multi-region software update.

M

But haven´t people here been receiving CD´s with the firmware? Since I live in Iceland, how would I go about getting both the firmware and the region free hack?

People in the US have had firmware cd's sent to them, don't know about any other country - the file for multi-region (which works on region 2 and 4 machines, not tested for any other) is available for download off this forum you'll have to do a search - then just burn onto cd.

M

The UK retailer I spoke to(avland), told me it had the latest firmware, but how can I know it´s this one?

I can get a hold of the region free crack, but I´d also need this firmware if the retailer is referring to an older one.

Originally posted by jazzcat
BillP, do they include any installation instructions with the CD? I would like to order it before the 3910 arrives so I don't have to re-program all the settings should it make the unit go to all default settings after the download.

I should be receiving my disc today (supposedly they mailed it Tuesday). I am also waiting to set it up until I get the disk. I heard from others that it is very simple. It comes with instructions, but apparently you just insert it and it does everything by itself. When you call Denon, I would tell them you just got the player (I would not tell them you don't have it yet).

Unfortunately you don't know ansd won't be able to find out as no one, as yet, knows how to check the firmware version on the 3910, but the part of the thread that says about the firmware fix says which machine serial no's it affects, so if the machine they are selling u has a higher serial no. than that then it won't be affected!

M

I think I´ll just go ahead and order the thing, if it has an affected serial number then maybe some of you nice people over here will copy the cd and sent me, if that will be needed?

When I checked my serial number I was surprised to see that it was one of the first ones built (#...01XX) even though I just bought it last Friday.

Anyway I emailed Denon on Monday and received the firmware update in the mail yesterday. Installation is a snap - just follow the simple instructions that are included - takes about 2 minutes.

How much memory is the firmware, is it possible to email or post on the net for download?

I just received my firmware today. My S/N is xxxxxx06xx (even though I just got my player last week - it must have been sitting in Tweeter's warehouse), so I need the upgrade. The sheet that comes with it states that it is to fix the Chroma spread on PAL and HMDI, the picture disappearing when switching horizontal position, and the white belt on progressive component. Does this fix the excessive pixel cropping and the Y/C delay on DVI mentioned by Kris in the Secret's report?

Jazzcat,
Tweeters nationwide is now using the Chicago warehouse instead of stocking alot of items in their stores. Are they selling it at MSRP in TX? When I upgraded to my B&K Ref50, they sent it to me in like 2 days. I am still waiting on what kind of deal I will be able to get on the 3910 as they are trying to get me the refund from Philips versus me waiting for ever Phillips to send me the check directly, and then my guy is trying to work something out additionally in the form of goodwill.

Jason --- Thanks! I can't wait to actually hear it! In New England where Tweeter's actually started, they won't even have any units until the last week of October.

Mark

BillP, thanks for the info and I hope the upgrade has everything you need.

Mark, he will take at least $100 off list. I haven't had time to deal any further as work is a zoo today!

Greetings,

My dealer is authorized and gave me an awesome price on my 3910. I paid $366.00 less than msrp on my unit. Don't let big comapnies like Tweeter sell it to you for $100 off of msrp. I got the firmware upgrade from an industry contact a few weeks ago. The firnware fix I received corrected Y/C delay via the DVI in and horizontal and vertical pixel cropping. I would assume that these other issues mentioned here were included in the same upgrade.


Regards,

placidman,
Could you post the firmware version you used? The one I received today is ESS-6609-5, and it does not mention DVI fixes. So now I'm really confused.

I finally got through to someone live at Denon. They only have one firmware upgrade available, and their feedback is that it does correct the DVI problems, even though their paperwork does not specifically state that, so we all received the correct (and only) version.

Is anyone else out there experimenting with HDMI to DVI or DVI to DVI or HDMI to HDMI??? Does anyone see any different before or after their firmware upgrade? I am now reporting that the DVI to DVI is looking the same as HDMI to DVI. I am using the new M1000 Monster HDMI to DVI cable. Not that it really matters. Anyone else have any experiences???

Greetings,

Bill, glad you got that ironed out. I am using DVI-DVI and the upgrade did correct the Y/C delay and pixel cropping. Other than that I see no viable difference in the quality of the image. It still looks incredible. I was watching " Vertical Limit-Superbit " and the image has the same three dimensionality as high def. material. The 3910 does a great job with sub par video transfers but it's real strength is with decent video transfers.

It took some tweaking and experimenting before I finally got things looking the best in my particular setup. I have my 3910 set for DVI/HDMI Black level " enhanced " and the IRE set at 7.5. The 0 IRE and Normal setting just imposed a bit too much on the overall black level for me. The image has plenty of snap and yet very good shadow detail and contrast.


Regards,

Originally posted by joerodcowboys
Is anyone else out there experimenting with HDMI to DVI or DVI to DVI or HDMI to HDMI??? Does anyone see any different before or after their firmware upgrade? I am now reporting that the DVI to DVI is looking the same as HDMI to DVI. I am using the new M1000 Monster HDMI to DVI cable. Not that it really matters. Anyone else have any experiences??? I loaded the firmware yesterday and spent about two hours tweaking afterwards. I finally ended up with DVI to DVI, Normal and IRE 0 with the player's brightness set to +8. I was using HDMI to DVI (RGB) and IRE set to 7.5. With the previous settings I noticed everything appeared a little fuzzy (text was much less sharper), flat and the black level was elevated very high.

My projector's DVI input has been calibrated for D-VHS and a few other sources so I want the player's settings to match the other sources as closely as possible. This way I don't have to adjust the projector every time I change the input's source.

I compared HDMI to DVI and DVI to DVI several times and using HDMI to DVI I could never get the black level correct (or as good as I could with other combinations). Whenever I would lower IRE to 0 black level was really crushed and even raising it under the brightness setting I couldn't get AVIA's black bars to show up properly. This is why I was using IRE set to 7.5 previously and brightness at +0 (which again was fuzzy and too high).

I tried each combination three or four times and I noticed occasionally the player would stop reflecting the changes I was making such as increasing brightness. So I ended up ejecting the DVD with each output change which seemed to care take of it. One thing I did notice is that it is real easy to leave the player in another memory setting when you are changing the IRE level.

I finally got my iScan HD (on loan until I swap it out for an iScan HD+) and my SDI mod for the 3910 (from JVB Digital).

I have a Fujitsu P55XHA30WS 55" plasma. Using the DVI-V input I 1:1 pixel matched the iScan HD output, and was able to do this at 1360X768 (which leaves three unused pixels on either side of the image).

I calibrated the 3910's SDI output using DVE.

All I can say is ---- WOW! It really does produce a smoother, more detailed, and more film-like image. It's quite breathtaking., and the difference is not subtle. This is compared with the 720P output of the 3910, which itself is VERY good. You can still see MPEG artifacts, if they exist, and I think this is what some people confuse with Macroblocking. Overall, the image is simple more film-like, with less noise and digital artifact to my eye, and colors seem much more natural, even though I calibrated in each case.

I wasn't sure how much of a difference it might make, but for those who are pursuing the ultimate DVD playback, this is it. On a 55" plasma it was definitely worthwhile from my perspective.

I've posted the 1:1 mapping settings on the iScan thread for those who are interested.

When I get the iScan HD+ I will try to comment on how it handles HD sources over it's DVI input.

-Adam

I'm new to the forum and this thread. I found it very helpful in
terms of evaluating which new universal play to purchase and
just got a 3910 this week.

SACD's sound incredible and I'm still tinkering with the rest.

I have a 50" Sony XBR Plasma with 1 DVI connection and no
HDMI.

I currently use DVI for connection between my Hi-Def cable box
and the TV's media receiver.

I'm wondering if I can get a video signal from the 3910 to my
TV's media receiver with IEEE. The HUGE 3910 manual has
contradictory comments, but seems to indicate only audio will
pass through the 3910's IEEE.

If this won't work I'll tinker with component for TV and DVI for
the 3910.

Feedback, advice and opinions would be appreciated.

Oh, and Charles R, thank you for the advice on contacting
Denon on the firmware update. It was impossible to get through
with the 800 number and your suggestion ( call 973-396-7499)
worked perfectly (no FAX required).

Thanks.

Any canadian owner who managed to get the firmware upgrade?

Benoit

GeorgeG02,
The IEEE output only carries digital audio.

You may want to invest in a DVI switcher so that you can share your single DVI input across these two devices. Both Gefen and Dtronics make them for example. There are a pair of threads in the Power Buys forum here discussing each.
--Bob

Just sent back the 3910 and decided to keep my 5900.It was no contest.
Especially the way the audio sounds on dvds the 5900 is clearly superior in my system.Macroblocking?none or if it is there
I dont see it.The 5900 is new and has the latest firmware.
Also prefer the old remote to the big one that comes with the 3910 and as for looks.again no contest.5900 is hard to part with.Maybe the 5910 will sway me.

I'm seriously considering the purchase of a 3910 this week. Since I watch a lot of TV shows on DVD, the handling of 4x3 material is an important consideration for me (I have a 16x9 set). In "squeeze" mode, will the player output a 4x3 image in 720p? The manual says squeeze mode doesn't work on interlaced resolutuons, so I assume 1080i won't work.

I have watched a few movies and shows (tv) in squeeze mode 720p. They look spectacular. I haven't even tried 1080i. i will do so and get back to you, but with as good as 720p looks, I truly don't care. As for the person who sent back their 3910 for the 5900, I agree about the audio side (5900 being superior) but for others like me who want a dvd player for VIDEO, the 3910 can be tweaked more than the 5900. I have both still, and I still like the 3910 in regards to video, the 5803 is for audio....

Originally posted by steviec
Just sent back the 3910 and decided to keep my 5900.It was no contest.


Really? I think most would agree that if you leaned towards one or the other the differences would only be subtle. But no contest? Wow!:rolleyes:

YEEEHAAAA . . . I'm on my way!!!

Went down to BB here in Thousand Oaks, Ca today and bought the 62727 and the Denon 3910. I will be having both delivered to my house next Wed 10/27. So, here's the system - all bought within the last month and mostly still in boxes:

Harmon Kardon Citation 16 amp (for mains)
Denon 3805 AVR
Denon 3910 Universal Player
Paradigm Studio 100 Mains
Paradigm Studio CC 570 Center
Paradigm Studio ADP 470 Surrounds
Paradigm Mini Monitor Rears
Hsu VTF3 MK2 Subwoofer
Basic POS Adelphia cable box/service
New BlueJeans cables
Shielded Monster 12G in-wall speaker wire


I need to run the surround speaker wire this week, as well as move furniture around etc, before stuff gets here next week - so I'm glad I didn't try to get it here any sooner.

I humbly ask and invite any and all local and semi-local forum members that would like to visit, watch, help or just laugh to come over for beer and pizza - maybe the Sunday after Halloween. Just PM me with your details and we can have some fun!!!!

Thanks for all your help in my analysis of these products, and I will now really be getting into the arcane minutia - so beware - you've helped create a monster - albeit a very happy one just in time for Halloween!!

Paul

Greetings,

Paul, congrats and welcome to the very crazy ( and absolutely awesome ) world of Home Audio/Video.

Did I understand you correctly...........you bought a Denon 3910 from Best Buy ?! To my knowledge they are not authorized to sell Denon products.


Regards,

Originally posted by placidman


Did I understand you correctly...........you bought a Denon 3910 from Best Buy ?! To my knowledge they are not authorized to sell Denon products.


Regards,

Yes they are, have been for years, got my 5900 and 3805 there...

Jim

Hi Ralph,
I don't know about the past, but maybe it's just because mine has the new Magnolia section that the 3910 was available at BB.

quote:Originally posted by placidman

Did I understand you correctly...........you bought a Denon 3910 from Best Buy ?! To my knowledge they are not authorized to sell Denon products.

Regards,


Originally posted by keenan
Yes they are, have been for years, got my 5900 and 3805 there...

Jim

Whoops!! Sorry, I was thinking of the Good Guys, you're right, I have never seen Denon at Best Buy.

Jim

Thank you Bob Pariseau.

I'll check out the DVI switchers.

/GeorgeG02

I would get Dtronics, it is way more easier and conveinant then Gefens. I have had both so I know by experience. Gefens is awkward to connect, Dtronics is easy to use and the inputs and output are all on the back!!!

Oh and there is less than a second when switching between inputs with Dtronics, gefens delay is 2-3 seconds. Plus I have never had a handshake problem with Dtronics, and the picture quality is 100% perfect when amplified by Dtronics. The reason I am also such a fan is Gefen treated me like an idiot when I talked to them with suggestions (like all inputs on one side)... Dtronics got it right with their product so they desrve to be supprted!

Hey gang, got the 3910 and just applied the new firmware, God do I love this player! Anyway I'm doing 720p DVI->DVI (audioquest DV-1 2 meter cable) to my Samsung HLP56, and I'm in heaven.....except for one lil annoyance.

Sometimes when the scene or the DVD track goes to black (while a DVD is playing), the last bit of text or the image that was on the screen last leaves like a burn in on the screen over the solid black. It's faint, but I can see it. It stays up until a new scene comes up and fills the screen with new pixel information.

I had a Denon 2200 orignally with this same TV and used the component outputs. I had no such issues. Before buying the 3910, I sold my 2200 to a friend and bought a 1910 to use the upscaling and DVI. I had the same issue that I am experiencing now with the 1910 thru DVI. When the 3910 came out, I bought that instead and returned the 1910 (I am so glad I did!). I was hoping maybe it was just an issue with the 1910 but I have the same problem with the 3910. I was wondering if anyone has heard of anything like this?

I am guessing it has to be:

a) bad DVI port on my TV? (Both 1910 and 3910 have same issue so highly unlikely I had 2 faulty players).

b) bad DVI cable (only common factor other than TV for both players)

c) some calibration issue or setting that I am just totally unaware of

Maybe I should just buy an HDMI->HDMI cable and give that a try?
Thanks for any info.

- Joe

The Best Buy near me doesn't carry Denon either. But the Good Guys does. (One shopping center near me with both stores.) ??

Hello again

I've made some advances with my problem, despite still having doubts.

I will remember you what's my problem:

During a movie it only appends once or twice, and only during a fraction of a second, the image fails, appearing a white screen. This only appends with HDMI (and 720 progressive). I've tried it with the scart port in the 3910 and it doesn't append.

I've already changed the HDMI cable (form Supra), and the fail still ocured with the new cable (excludind the cable from the equation), I've tried the Panasonic AE700 with other dvd Player (my old sony, via scart) and no problem (but like i said above with the 3910 scart port no problem too).

Didn't used other HDMI dvd player or other HDMI PJ/Plasma.

I've been readind about some problems with 3910, and my 3910 SN is xxxxx05xx (&#%#$"%). What meens the 'Picture disappears' mention below ?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Kevin C Brown
Anyone know what serial number range in prod units will be that already have these fixes? Or how to check the firmware version on the player?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



affected units

Chroma spread
black xxxxx3499 or lower
silver xxxxx0599 or lower

Picture disappears
black xxxxx2099 or lower
silver xxxxx0399 or lower

White belt
black xxxxx2099 or lower
silver none


Can you help me ?

Originally posted by Joseph G B
Hey gang, got the 3910 and just applied the new firmware, God do I love this player! Anyway I'm doing 720p DVI->DVI (audioquest DV-1 2 meter cable) to my Samsung HLP56, and I'm in heaven.....except for one lil annoyance.

Sometimes when the scene or the DVD track goes to black (while a DVD is playing), the last bit of text or the image that was on the screen last leaves like a burn in on the screen over the solid black. It's faint, but I can see it. It stays up until a new scene comes up and fills the screen with new pixel information.

I had a Denon 2200 orignally with this same TV and used the component outputs. I had no such issues. Before buying the 3910, I sold my 2200 to a friend and bought a 1910 to use the upscaling and DVI. I had the same issue that I am experiencing now with the 1910 thru DVI. When the 3910 came out, I bought that instead and returned the 1910 (I am so glad I did!). I was hoping maybe it was just an issue with the 1910 but I have the same problem with the 3910. I was wondering if anyone has heard of anything like this?

I am guessing it has to be:

a) bad DVI port on my TV? (Both 1910 and 3910 have same issue so highly unlikely I had 2 faulty players).

b) bad DVI cable (only common factor other than TV for both players)

c) some calibration issue or setting that I am just totally unaware of

Maybe I should just buy an HDMI->HDMI cable and give that a try?
Thanks for any info.

- Joe
The artifact you are seeing is a result of the Faroudja processing. You either live with it, turn brightness down until it's gone(which for me crushes blacks), or return it. The SI504 chip does not manifest this artifact like the Faroudja does.

Hmm, just got my 3910 hooked up last night, and after a few frustrating attempts to get this beast under control, I seem to be getting along quite nicely now. (The menues are not the most intuiative I've seen.)

I have at least one problem that irritates me, I've hooked up the player to my Yamaha DSP AZ-1 with both analoge (5.1) and optical out. While using the 5.1-out I can't get the same volume on the sub-output as the integrated DTS decoder, while using the test-tone on the player I can hardly hear the sub even though I've set the sub-output volume at +10. I've tried most settings I could, but none are able to reach the volume I need to run my amplifier at "usual" settings.

I've been switching between 5.1 input and integrated DTS decoder (for instance), the difference in regards to sub-volume is very noticeable. Anyone else noticed this? (I have been reading through this thread, but can't seem to find anyone else having this problem.)


Regards,
Tore K., Norway.

Originally posted by Mercer
I've been switching between 5.1 input and integrated DTS decoder (for instance), the difference in regards to sub-volume is very noticeable. Anyone else noticed this? (I have been reading through this thread, but can't seem to find anyone else having this problem.)

I noticed this too, and to get proper bass output I had to also apply boost in my Denon 3805 receiver, which has a separate bass level control in Setup for Ext-In sub level. Then it was easily rectified, in fact I had to back off some after my initial setting was too much. This all happened after I switched my speaker settings to "large" in the 3910's multichannel setup. When I first got the 3910 I had set them to "small" and the bass output was easily set just using the player's bass range.

Thanks for the reply JBaumgart, then it's not only me having the problem. :) The problem is that I do not have any posibility to increase the sub-volume on my receiver, it's allready at it's peak.. :-(

The weird thing is that this seems to be a common problem with a lot of 5.1 sources, both my Audigy 2 and my friends old Pioneer DVD player (with 5.1 out) had problems giving an adequate volume to the sub-input..

Regards,
Tore K.

I sat on the fence for numerous weeks trying to decide among the 2900, 5900, 3910 and 59avi. I read alot but today I went to my dealer and listened to them all. Yes....I said LISTENED. I'm as much worried about audio as video. All listening was done into the same receiver, at the same time, using basic 2-channel, analog connections.

I plan on running 480i for now but will upgrade to an SDI solution in the next few months. (Using a Lumagen Vision right now.) For anyone in a similar situation, I offer these comments.

The 2900 is one heck of a player for $700. The audio wasn't quite as good as the 5900 or 3910, but at half the price(of the 5900), its a great deal. The 39/59 deliver better separation and depth as well as a more lifelike presentation. They just sounded smoother, less compressed and overall better.

The 5900 and 3910 are so close, that I had an extremely difficult time telling the difference. 95% of the time, I'd say they're equal. Additionally, the 3910 has superior bass management capability over the 2900. For me, they were close enough that the cost difference of the 5900 wasn't worth it.

The 59avi, as much as I wanted to like it, didn't measure up in the audio department. It sounded thin compared to the others. That's the best way I can explain it. Not bad, but when you heard them side by side, it was easy for me to pick which I liked best.

The verdict (for me)................3910!
It gives you almost equal audio performance of the 5900, firewire input for future hi-res audio (which the 2900 lacks) and arguable better resale value than any of the others. The kicker....it was $300 cheaper than a 5900 and only $300 more than a 2900. Seemed like I was spending a little more to get a player that is certainly the equal(roughly) of the 5900 with alot more future potential than the 2900.

Of course, I'm crossing my fingers that the 480i will be outstanding from the 3910 and SDI will take it to a whole new level. My toes are crossed that the layer change won't be terrible and/or Denon might come up with a fix for it.

Remember, this is what I HEARD. Your results might be different based on any number of factors. This experiment was pretty well controlled and the person with me had the exact same conclusions.

Thanks to everyone for providing their insight in all of these threads!

Originally posted by Mercer
Thanks for the reply JBaumgart, then it's not only me having the problem. :) The problem is that I do not have any posibility to increase the sub-volume on my receiver, it's allready at it's peak.. :-(

The weird thing is that this seems to be a common problem with a lot of 5.1 sources, both my Audigy 2 and my friends old Pioneer DVD player (with 5.1 out) had problems giving an adequate volume to the sub-input..

Regards,
Tore K.

Tore, assume you have set your speaker size to "small" in multichannel setup (which for me produced more bass output) and also have your sub turned up to its highest setting? Have you experimented with crossover settings? Also sometimes you can produce more bass by moving your sub to a new location - even a few feet can make a difference. Some combination of these may help.

I don't have any problems with sub-volume, I could crank it up way more and get a good result. The problem is that I can't do that, and at the same time have a correct volume when I'm using the Yamaha as a decoder. (I mostly use the Denon 3910 for decoding SACD and DVD-Audio). It's good to hear that at least Denon have fixed this problem with their receiver, but it shouldn't have been a problem in the first place (IMHO).

Regards,
Tore K.

Hey guys. Just joined your ranks as a 3910 owner on Saturday. My box arrived a little damaged:mad: - styrofoam inside was cracked, and the batteries came out of the accessory bag during shipment, so I haven't set it up yet because I may bring it back to the retailer, although I'll probably set this one up because the unit itself looked pretty well protected, and I know my retailer will stand behind it if there is a problem.

Looking forward to hearing how much better it sounds than my Pioneer 578a.

I installed the firmware today and followed the "Firmware
Install Procedure for DVD 3910" exactly.

The instructions say, "Erase and Writing will be shown on the
display repeatedly".

My display only showed "Writing" before displaying "Complete".

Did anyone else notice this? I'm wondering if the firmware was
successfully installed and I don't know if there's a way to verify.

On another note, I ordered a Dtronics 2-1 DVI switch today.

Thanks,

George

Originally posted by GeorgeG02
I installed the firmware today and followed the "Firmware
Install Procedure for DVD 3910" exactly.

The instructions say, "Erase and Writing will be shown on the
display repeatedly".

My display only showed "Writing" before displaying "Complete".

Did anyone else notice this? I'm wondering if the firmware was
successfully installed and I don't know if there's a way to verify.

On another note, I ordered a Dtronics 2-1 DVI switch today.

Thanks,

George

Greetings,

George, fear not. You properly installed the firmware upgrade. The instructions you got were not correct in terms of what should appear on the display during the installation. Your all set.


Regards,

Greetings,

I had no trouble with my subwoofer output on the 3910 either. Remember that you will need to set your pre/pro or receiver to reference level when calibrating the multi channel analog output of the 3910. If you don't overall output will seem too low ( especially the sub out ). When you calibrate your receiver or pre/pro on it's own it will automatically set it's test tone generator to reference level.


Regards,

Jbaumgart,
That is one of the reasons I sent back the 3910 and kept the 5900.The sub just had no punch when calibrated to reference level compared to most other players I have owned and the overall sound was alittle thin.
This is while using the coaxial digital out for dvd sound.The picture is good but not as good as the 5900.

Originally posted by jkscherk
The verdict (for me)................3910!
It gives you almost equal audio performance of the 5900, firewire input for future hi-res audio (which the 2900 lacks) and arguable better resale value than any of the others.
I assume you mean firewire output, right?

I called Denon Canada today and requested the firmware upgrade disc. The technician I spoke to said that they would not send discs out and I had to send the player to them, which is definitely not my preferred choice.

He claims that some people have had problems updating themselves and that the machines ended up requiring a flash memory replacement (or reloading) - his explanation was a bit convoluted.

I think I'll wait a few weeks to see if the situation evolves before sending the player to the service center. I'll need the DVI fixes when my new TV comes in.

Paul.

Originally posted by steviec
Jbaumgart,
That is one of the reasons I sent back the 3910 and kept the 5900.The sub just had no punch when calibrated to reference level compared to most other players I have owned and the overall sound was alittle thin.
This is while using the coaxial digital out for dvd sound.The picture is good but not as good as the 5900.


Greetings,

If you are using the coaxil digital out on the 3910 then the bass management is being handled by your receiver or processor. The bass sounding thin would really have nothing to do with the 3910 under those circumstances. I had the 2900 prior to the 3910 and both calibrated similarly. Overall sound via the digital outputs was similar.


Regards,

1) How exactly do you check to see what Firmware you have??

2) What e-mail address are you guys using when you ask for the Firmware upgrade???

Thx!!

-- Cain

oops....I did mean output

Originally posted by GeorgeG02
I installed the firmware today and followed the "Firmware
Install Procedure for DVD 3910" exactly.

The instructions say, "Erase and Writing will be shown on the
display repeatedly".

My display only showed "Writing" before displaying "Complete".

Did anyone else notice this? I'm wondering if the firmware was
successfully installed and I don't know if there's a way to verify.

On another note, I ordered a Dtronics 2-1 DVI switch today.

Thanks,

George

George,
You did fine. The "erase" and "writing" would have been shown on your main display (DLP, CRT, LCD, Etc --- hows that for acronyms!!) if you had one hooked up via the s-video outputs. I saw this on my display while updating. The Denon 3910's display showed only "writing" during the whole process, so yours is fine.
Mike

Originally posted by Cain
What e-mail address are you guys using when you ask for the Firmware upgrade???
Cain,

contactrepairil@denonnj.com

Jason

Originally posted by JasonColeman
Cain,

contactrepairil@denonnj.com

Jason

I used contactservice@denonnj.com and got a response rather quickly and got the firmware today. Initial e-mail went out last Wednesday evening.


Bill

Thanks Placidman and Mike for verification that my upgrade went
OK.

Sounds like EMAIL works to obtain the firmware.

I called Denon late last Wednesday afternoon at 973-396-7499,
provided only my name and address and received the CD today
in the mail. Really quick turnaround!

/George

Has anyone seen small white horizontal lines appear randomly on the image when using the dvi connection? If so does the firmware update cure this?

M

I've found a solution for my problem with too low sub-output from my Denon 5.1 connectors. It's possible to decrease all the other channels by -10db, and increase the sub by +10. This gives correct sub level compared to the rest, but it does result in a lower overall volume, but this can easely be amplified by my Yamaha amplifier.

Regards,
Tore K.

Originally posted by Cain
1) How exactly do you check to see what Firmware you have??

2) What e-mail address are you guys using when you ask for the Firmware upgrade???

Thx!!

-- Cain

Cain,
I just called yesterday, Oct. 18th and he said they have a new firmware even though my player is only a couple weeks old. I know that doesn't tell you how to check it, but it's probably not up to date.

scott

Do the CD´s that have the firmwares state which one it is? If I get a firmware at the local dealer, how do I know it´s the latest one?

Cain & Keyser,

The Firmware CD from Denon in NJ for the 3910 has
the firmware version and date written on the CD label.

/George

Originally posted by mark antony
Has anyone seen small white horizontal lines appear randomly on the image when using the dvi connection? If so does the firmware update cure this?

M


Greetings,

Mark, I have used the DVI output on my 3910 exclusively and prior to installing the firmware upgrade never noticed what you describe.


Regards,

Originally posted by keyser
Do the CD´s that have the firmwares state which one it is?

The version I just got updates the player to Version ESS-6609-5.

And no:rolleyes: I have no idea which version mine was before. All I do know is the S/N of my unit fell within the parameters of those needing the update.


Bill

No white lines observed on mine with DVI output.

What I did notice after the firmware upgrade is my 3910 has to do another "handshake" when I start to play a disc. This is evident since my Geffen 2x1 switch (3910 is connected to DVI 2) jumps to my HDTivo input (DVI 1) when I push play. I assume that there is a momentary interruption in the DVI signal from the Denon that causes the Geffen to switch back to the default input.

Greetings,

Swatter, I have noticed the same thing with regard to the need for an additional " handshake " when a disc starts to play. I did not put it together until I read your post. I knew that initially it was not doing it and then it started however I did not make the correlation between that and the firmware upgrade. It is really no big deal, but it cuts off the first second or two when the disc is loaded. Generally this is just the copyright warning or the studio trailer etc.


Regards,

The fix for it is certainly easy, switch inputs on my Geffen switch. Just an observation about a post firmware upgrade anomaly.

Originally posted by swatter911
No white lines observed on mine with DVI output.

What I did notice after the firmware upgrade is my 3910 has to do another "handshake" when I start to play a disc. This is evident since my Geffen 2x1 switch (3910 is connected to DVI 2) jumps to my HDTivo input (DVI 1) when I push play. I assume that there is a momentary interruption in the DVI signal from the Denon that causes the Geffen to switch back to the default input.

My 4 x 1 gefen switch will switch inputs for a variety of reasons and is most annoying. I haven't experienced any problems with the 3910 but there are definite conflicts with the voom receiver and my parasound halo C1. Navigating the program guide on voom will often cause it to switch and sometimes increasing or decreasing the audio on the C1 will cause it to switch.

Originally posted by Mr. Biggles
The version I just got updates the player to Version ESS-6609-5.

And no:rolleyes: I have no idea which version mine was before. All I do know is the S/N of my unit fell within the parameters of those needing the update.

Note that there has only been one firmware upgrade available from Denon, so we are all getting the same one. The sheet does not say so, but it does fix the DVI problems. It also lists the S/N's that need the firmware upgrade (you can't tell by the date you bought it since it could have been sitting in a warehouse for a few weeks).

I heard tell (from the place I was about to buy a 3910 from) that not only are they out of stock :( but Denon isn't shipping rith now, presumably because they're fixing all the current stock. Anyone confirm this?

Anyone steer me in the direction of another "low cost" dealer that may actually have a 3910 in stock? TIA

Originally posted by swatter911
What I did notice after the firmware upgrade is my 3910 has to do another "handshake" when I start to play a disc. This is evident since my Geffen 2x1 switch (3910 is connected to DVI 2) jumps to my HDTivo input (DVI 1) when I push play. I assume that there is a momentary interruption in the DVI signal from the Denon that causes the Geffen to switch back to the default input.

Originally posted by No Clue
My 4 x 1 gefen switch will switch inputs for a variety of reasons and is most annoying. I haven't experienced any problems with the 3910 but there are definite conflicts with the voom receiver and my parasound halo C1. Navigating the program guide on voom will often cause it to switch and sometimes increasing or decreasing the audio on the C1 will cause it to switch.

A few things going on here (I have a 2910 and the Gefen 4X1. I used to have the Gefen 2X1).

1- On the 2910, the HDMI/DVI output is momentarily interrupted just before the disc starts. In my expereince, it resynchs with my displays (a BenQ PJ and a Panasonic plasma) imediately and it does not clip the start of the disc. So, for me, its a minor issue.

2- I believe with the 2X1 switch it will automatically switch back to default input because you are not using a power supply (wall wart) with the switch. When you loose output on DVI, it switch will flip to the default port since it lost power to the port that the Denon was on (the Denon itself was supplying power in lieu of an external supply). To mitigate the problem, I think you can either add the wall wart or put the 3910 on the Gefen default port ("1").

3- The "earlier" Gefen switches (manufactured dates up to I believe about mid-2004) have known IR conflicts with many brands. You can send the switch back to Gefen and they will upgrade the firmware and provide a new remote (since the IR codes are changed). Not sure what the cost is.

Newbie here. First, this forum has been so educational, letting me buy new components with knowledge and confidence. Just purchased a 3910 to go with a Samsung 6163. Really happy with the DLP and the amazing picture quality of this player.

My question is about the 5.1 audio out. I'm using the R/L audio out now with a Kenwood KC-X1 tuner and KM-X1 amp. It's part of THX system bought the mid-90s. Movies and hi-def TV sound great. The SACDs though sound pretty thin, like all the sound is coming through the center speaker.

Is there a great advantage using the 5.1 out on the Denon? If so, can anyone recommend an AVR that has the 5.1 inputs?

Originally posted by sfatlanta
Is there a great advantage using the 5.1 out on the Denon? If so, can anyone recommend an AVR that has the 5.1 inputs?

I have the Denon 3805 and I think it's an excellent match - the 5.1 sounds very good after it's set up properly and after that everything is automatic (convenient).

Does a DenonLink cable ship with the 3910, if not what type of cable is it? I assume since it´s digital the quality of the cable doesn´t matter much, it either works or it doesn´t ?

Originally posted by keyser
Does a DenonLink cable ship with the 3910, if not what type of cable is it?

Yes, it ships with a cat5 cable.

Does anyone have their 3910 under an amp. I´m wondering if it might create heat issues that way.

Originally posted by keyser
Does anyone have their 3910 under an amp. I´m wondering if it might create heat issues that way. I would be more concerned about heat dispersion in the opposite configuration with the 3910 resting on the surface of the amp. Obviously, my 3910 generates very little heat in comparison to my 3805. My 3805 rests beneath my 3910 and is separated by 5 inches of space and a sheet of tempered glass (BDI Axis 8024 stand) with virtually zero gain in temperature.

Hope that helps.

Originally posted by keyser
Does anyone have their 3910 under an amp. I´m wondering if it might create heat issues that way. The owner's manual states how much free space (10 cm or more) it needs in each direction. Of course you don't have to follow it...

FreeflyKC,
why do you have the amp under the dvd player instead of the other way around? My 3805 gets VERY hot.

Charles R,
I was thinking of having the DVD player under the amp, which isn´t 10 cm. So I wondered if anyone had this setup.

Greetings,

For the life of me I can't understand WHY you would want to put anything like an amplifier or receiver on top of your DVD player? Is space that much of a problem? If it is maybe you should consider rearrangement of your gear or furniture so that you don't have to stack your components. This is something that is not recommended.


Regards,

Originally posted by keyser
FreeflyKC,
why do you have the amp under the dvd player instead of the other way around? My 3805 gets VERY hot.None of my equipment is enclosed, thus ventilation comes from all sides. Both my receiver and dvd player run quite cool in this particular configuration. I planned for better accessibility to the 3910 and placing it on the lower shelf meant stooping down further. Placement was based on both aesthetic and usage purposes really. Plus, as I stated, each unit is separated by 5 inches of air, and a sheet of tempered glass. So, heat is not an issue. Here's the stand I'm using:http://www.bdiusa.com/avfurniture/axis_8024.shtml

I think this "under over" question may be a stand issue.

The 3805 is like 6.1" tall, and it's hard to find a stand with that much space in a shelf, at the top of the stand (and not have like 10" shelves at the bottom. I guess we're just supposed to put our receivers near the button, and have DVD players and stuff at the top.

- D

I´m thinking of having a custom built stand. I can´t find anything that has good space for the equipment, hides the cables and isn´t too tall that it goes in front of the projector screen.

Originally posted by keyser
I´m thinking of having a custom built stand. I can´t find anything that has good space for the equipment, hides the cables and isn´t too tall that it goes in front of the projector screen.
A guy from iceland should build the rack from stone and frosted glas;-)
Beatyful country you have btw

:) It has hardly snowed here the last few winters. Global warming doing wonders for the Icelandic golf season.

10cm? yikes! no wonder.... Anybody think taking the feet off my 3805 to give more breathing room above would be a good idea?
Global warming? Could that be why the hurricanes seem like they are moving north?
No worries for me in new jersey, just the pesky toxic waste sites.

Originally posted by tsteves
10cm? yikes! no wonder.... Anybody think taking the feet off my 3805 to give more breathing room above would be a good idea?
Global warming? Could that be why the hurricanes seem like they are moving north?
No worries for me in new jersey, just the pesky toxic waste sites.

I wouldn't, those feet serve to isolate the player from vibrations coming through whatever it is standing on, and to allow air to flow by and remove any heat build-up, to some degree anyway.

BTW, I stack my heat producing devices at the top, heat rises and no sense having that heat run through the player on it's way to the ceiling.

I think it's always a good idea to have as much room around a heat producing component as you can, the increased area helps air flow from room currents remove some of the standing heat. Personally, I would have no less than 2 inches of space above the 3805 and at least that much for an amplifier. A DVD player requires little ventilation but it does need some.

Jim :)

Blast! Another rearangement? I'll probably need new cables... A new rack.... A new DVD player.... oh yeah, that's right I'm still waiting for my 3910 to replace that 5900.
somebody shoot me.

Originally posted by tsteves
Blast! Another rearangement? I'll probably need new cables... A new rack.... A new DVD player.... oh yeah, that's right I'm still waiting for my 3910 to replace that 5900.
somebody shoot me.

What happened to the 5900? Or do you prefer the 3910 to the 5900?

Jim

This thing is huge, but it works!!!

I am using Denonlink and it is outstanding.

Originally posted by sfatlanta
...can anyone recommend an AVR that has the 5.1 inputs?

Like JBaumgart, I've got the 3805 and the combo is phenomenal. I don't use DenonLink at all. The 5.1 and 2-channel analog outs are fed directly into my 3805 and translated into spectacular sound sensations via Paradigm Studio 100 mains. It's really quite special! :D

BTW, I custom build all of my HT furniture and have for the past 10 years or so. Raised up the son of a carpenter's son, I've got some wood under the hood. I'd be glad to throw around design ideas with anyone that's struggling with the "perfect A/V furniture." I've built 10 or 11 HT setups, and I'm wrestling with my own cherry modular setup right now. Hmmm...room to upgrade TV, lots of breathing space for components, gobs of media storage, intelligent cable management, all in a fashionable and WAF way. Needless to say, I'm still using a pencil with my drawings.

Jason

keenan
>"What happened to the 5900? Or do you prefer the 3910 to the 5900?
I had the 5900 for only several short weeks. I loved it. I have the 3805 and am using the "biamp" setup through some maggie 3.3r's with B&W center and surrounds (yeah, I know they don't match, I'm working on it). Anyway, the 5900 sounds really beautiful. I found myself listening to music a lot more than usual. The picture was very nice as well. I even got to use it with an iscan hd for a bit, which was fun.
I guess too many posts about mb and the 3910 possible improvements made me trade in before my 30 days were up. Never noticed mb myself, but I'm getting ready for a new pj so want to be safe. I may finally get my 3910 monday or so. I hope to be happy.

Originally posted by tsteves
keenan
>"What happened to the 5900? Or do you prefer the 3910 to the 5900?
I had the 5900 for only several short weeks. I loved it. I have the 3805 and am using the "biamp" setup through some maggie 3.3r's with B&W center and surrounds (yeah, I know they don't match, I'm working on it). Anyway, the 5900 sounds really beautiful. I found myself listening to music a lot more than usual. The picture was very nice as well. I even got to use it with an iscan hd for a bit, which was fun.
I guess too many posts about mb and the 3910 possible improvements made me trade in before my 30 days were up. Never noticed mb myself, but I'm getting ready for a new pj so want to be safe. I may finally get my 3910 monday or so. I hope to be happy.

Cool, I'm not sure I could justify the $700 MSRP difference if I was purchasing today myself...that's a lot of money for a small increment, if any, of difference in the 2 units. I still love the way the audio sounds on this player a tad more than the 3910 though.

Good Luck with your future equipment purchases. :)

Jim

Jim/keenan,
I'll be running through the 3805 dacs mainly via dlink. I like the auto eq for the rewired 3.3r's. Sacd's from 5900/3910, since dlink is still, forever missing. Maybe I should rethink? Use manual eq? Any advantage in your opinion to the 3910 for video? They may still have the 5900 if I want it back.

Originally posted by keenan
I still love the way the audio sounds on this player a tad more than the 3910 though.
Jim-

Did you A/B the 5900 and the 3910? I'm curious about your comment.

Jason

Originally posted by tsteves
Jim/keenan,
I'll be running through the 3805 dacs mainly via dlink. I like the auto eq for the rewired 3.3r's. Sacd's from 5900/3910, since dlink is still, forever missing. Maybe I should rethink? Use manual eq? Any advantage in your opinion to the 3910 for video? They may still have the 5900 if I want it back.

Never seen any video from it, but from what I've heard here and elsewhere it appears to be at least as good as the 5900, in fact maybe better because of the lesser amount of MB. Plus the functionality seems to be better with the 3910, HDMI and ability to switch ouputs from the remote. Like I said, if I were to go out and buy a player today it would be the 3910, for 2 reasons, one it's a hell of a lot cheaper than the 5900 and in almost all respects it's as good if not better.


Jason,

I should have qualified my remark about the 5900 sounded better, I heard the 3910 in a store and although it was the same speakers and a 3805 which I also have, the 5900 just seemed a little more effortless and open to me, but I'm comparing a store audition to my home setup, so it's not really a fair comparison, plus auditory memory is fleeting at best. Ideally, I should have brought one home to do the comparison but there was nothing about it that excited me beyond what I hear from the 5900.

Don't start second-guessing yourself because some California nutcase:p says that one sounds better than the other, there was probably as much bias in the remark I made because I already have the 5900 equal to what I could remember by ABing the two units with each in two different locations, which is next to impossible to do.

The 5900 is certainly not worth the price difference IMO, $700 goes a long ways toward more tangible things to improve your HT experience than what I think I heard between the two models.

I hope that makes sense. :D

Jim AKA-Nutcase

Jim AKA-Nutcase
Thanks, very helpful post. I'll give my own nutcase opinion soon.

Jim-

Thanks for the quick response...kinda backs up your nutcase theory. :D

I'm certainly not second guessing my 3910. I frickin' love this thing. I didn't think that it would be a very significant step up from my Pioneer 45a, yet it really is. The audio performance is stunning. Needless to say, the video performance is equally impressive and thoroughly humiliates whatever the 45 was able to muster.

I only asked for you to clarify because I wasn't sure if you had picked up a 3910 to A/B with your 5900 or if you had simply done an in-store audition of the 3910 and compared it to the sound of your 5900 at home. I wasn't challenging your impressions, but wanted to find out why your impressions were what they are.

Thanks!

Jason (also apparently a nutcase because of the prompt reply :D)

Originally posted by tsteves
Jim AKA-Nutcase
Thanks, very helpful post. I'll give my own nutcase opinion soon.

Cool, looking forward to it, and I'm sure Jason would like to hear your thoughts also,

Jim:)

Quick 3910 question: do you always leave it on Standby, or do you turn the power off at the end of the day?

Originally posted by BillP
Quick 3910 question: do you always leave it on Standby, or do you turn the power off at the end of the day?

Mine ends up off only because I have it hooked up to a power conditioner this was. When the conditioner is powered up it's in stand by mode.

Originally posted by tsteves
keenan
>"What happened to the 5900? Or do you prefer the 3910 to the 5900?
I had the 5900 for only several short weeks. I loved it. I have the 3805 and am using the "biamp" setup through some maggie 3.3r's with B&W center and surrounds (yeah, I know they don't match, I'm working on it). Anyway, the 5900 sounds really beautiful. I found myself listening to music a lot more than usual. The picture was very nice as well. I even got to use it with an iscan hd for a bit, which was fun.
I guess too many posts about mb and the 3910 possible improvements made me trade in before my 30 days were up. Never noticed mb myself, but I'm getting ready for a new pj so want to be safe. I may finally get my 3910 monday or so. I hope to be happy.

What is the point to talk about a product that has been discontinued,I am referring to the Denon 5900. The Denon 3910 is a superior product. I have one and with the Denon mike, calibration is so easy to set up. I would appreciate if any one can give me a solution for the multiregion "setup"
Thank you
Paul

For those interested in the Region Free Firmware upgrade for the 2910 & 3910 go here for a quick how to guide ----> http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=214907

Please keep all involved updated on anything you experience. Thanks!!

Regards,
Steve

I have a dumb question to ask about the how 'full screen' DVDs work on the 3910. Firstly, my understanding of a 'full screen' DVD is that it is made for a 4:3 screen. When I play the DVD on my 3910, it completely fills the 16x9 screen.

Originally posted by 95ForCanada
I have a dumb question to ask about the how 'full screen' DVDs work on the 3910. Firstly, my understanding of a 'full screen' DVD is that it is made for a 4:3 screen. When I play the DVD on my 3910, it completely fills the 16x9 screen.

It is being stretched to fill the screen. To see it in it's native format, you need to go into the settings and set squeeze to "on". I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe there is a way to handle this automatically.

Steve

Originally posted by 95ForCanada
I have a dumb question to ask about the how 'full screen' DVDs work on the 3910. Firstly, my understanding of a 'full screen' DVD is that it is made for a 4:3 screen. When I play the DVD on my 3910, it completely fills the 16x9 screen.

Either it's stretching it (do people look really fat and wide?) or it's using Squeeze mode, which takes a 4:3 image, and cuts it to fit a 16:9 (if my understanding is correct)

- D

Originally posted by 95ForCanada
I have a dumb question to ask about the how 'full screen' DVDs work on the 3910. Firstly, my understanding of a 'full screen' DVD is that it is made for a 4:3 screen. When I play the DVD on my 3910, it completely fills the 16x9 screen.


Greetings,

You will need to set the Squeeze mode to On in the video setup menu. This will display 4:3 material in it's proper aspect ratio by placing black bars on either sides of the image.


Quick 3910 question: do you always leave it on Standby, or do you turn the power off at the end of the day?


Mine is left in Standby mode. I really don't see the need to turn the unit off at the end of the day. The amount of electricity used to power the standy mode red light is next to nothing.


Regards,

Paul Mazzola
>"What is the point"
The point is that there are still 5900's out there. This thing is a great piece of work in a lot of ways. It weighs, like 45 pounds. It is made like a tank. The sq is also quite good! It is the standard that the 3910 is compared against, basically.

I finally got around to installing the new firmware on my 3910. The process went smoothly. But now... I have the problem some others have mentioned of no video over DVI for DVD-A disks. This doesnt affect all disks. My Santana and Robert Cray DVD-A's work OK. My BB King and Eric Clapton Riding with the King now doesnt work. Upon loading the disk.. I see the loading message on the monitor and then Monitor says no signal after load finishes. Hitting play results in music but no video. It worked perfectly before upgrading to the -5 firmware.

Bummer....

The 5900 still blows the 3910 out of the water! The 3910 actually looks kind of cheap.Some will be happy with it but the 5900 is so good in the audio department you can use it as a standalone dvd-audio/ sacd player when bluray comes out. Would not want to do that with the 3910.

OK guys, I've joined the club. Bought my 3910 today and will pick it up on Monday. I can't wait to see this thing in action. I had a 2900 and sold it a few months ago to raise some cash for a speaker upgrade (and have regretted the move ever since).

Two questions that I couldn't seem to find answers to in this thread (they may be there, but the thread is long - and I'm tired).

1. How do I determine what firmware my player has?
2. How do I know if my player is in need of a firmware update/upgrade? (I do recall reading where to call if I need the upgrade).

Thanks!
-Paul

Originally posted by PaulG
Two questions...
1. How do I determine what firmware my player has?
2. How do I know if my player is in need of a firmware update/upgrade? (I do recall reading where to call if I need the upgrade).
I haven't seen anywhere how to check the unit's firmware. The procedure used to check the 5900 doesn't work with the 3910. To see if your player is one that "requires" the firmware upgrade, simply check back a few pages in this thread and cross-reference your serial #s.

Jason

PaulG,

here's what my instructions said,

Chroma speed Picture disappears White Belt

Black xxx3499 xxx2099 xxx2099
Silver xx0599 xxx0399 None

These # represent shortened serial #s and the issue with the player.

Steviec,

Blows it away seems kinda strong compared to all the other comments about the two players. Better, I'll give ya that.

Scott

PaulG,

Sorry that was supposed to be kind of a graph but it didn't turn out that way. The top items are problems and the bottom are serial #s and each one categorized.

Scott

I actually own both and to say one BLOWS the other out of the WATER is crazy. They are essentialy the same player. Yes audio goes to the 5900 but pic Q definitely goes to the 3910! As I said before a dvd player to me is for picture quality and my receiver is for audio. If I didn't own a unit and was looking to by either one, the 3910 would be my choice (unless I was looking to play music primarily). You can get it for under a thousand! Besides that the other "little things" make it better than the 5900. Remote switching of formats and outputs, HDMI, and being able to tweak the picture more makes it better. Thru an A/B comparison the 3910 consistently had a better picture than the 5900. Plus there wasn't any MB where there was with the 5900 (Bug's Life chapter 22). Don't get me wrong, they are both outstanding players, and nearly all would be happy with either... I am...

They are not the same player.Like you said as for audio the 5900 excels.
I also have owned both players.Build quality and looks ? The 5900 blows the 3910 out of the water.The 3910 appears and is a much cheaper build quality then the 5900.As for the "little things" the 3910 remote is too big and I prefer the 5900 remote.I also prefer the 5900 picture and adjustments.The 3910 appears to be dumbed down a bit compared to the 5900.
The main reason to choose the 5900 over the 3910 is when hd dvd and bluray are released you can still use the 5900 as a top notch audio player only.An area where the 3910 can not compete,it is average on sacd and dvd-audio.

I now have the 3910 and i will say they are close in all catagories. audio i feel is a little better on the 5900 but have not really dialed in 3910 yet so it really is to close to call. pic wise they are pretty equal. build wise yes the 5900 as steve says blows the 3910 away if that really is very important to you. so i would say its pretty much a draw. one other thing the 3910 does the 5900 doesnt do is pillar box 4x3 material over dvi which to me is a non isssue but seems to be a major for most people,

I guess to each his own but others like me who want a DVD player for the PICTURE prefer the 3910. I will use my 5900 for audio formays, but when I watch a movie (like legend of sleepy hollow tonite), the 3910 gets the job done better. I guess it does depend on your display, becuase after fine tuning the 3910, it simply looks better than the 5900. Remotes to me do not matter because I use a universal anyway. I like the look of the 3910 as much as the 5900. Sure it is not a tank, but it gets the job done anyway. All of these points will not matter when the 5910 comes out anyway. That will have the best of both worlds. Audio & Video!!!

Anyone who can afford a 5910 (assuming it's worth more then the $5900) needs to die...

I'm still trying to justify a DVD player worth as much as my receiver (I'll buy it, but still) omg.

- D

Originally posted by steviec
Just sent back the 3910 and decided to keep my 5900.It was no contest.
Especially the way the audio sounds on dvds the 5900 is clearly superior in my system.Macroblocking?none or if it is there
I dont see it.The 5900 is new and has the latest firmware.
Also prefer the old remote to the big one that comes with the 3910 and as for looks.again no contest.5900 is hard to part with.Maybe the 5910 will sway me.

The 5900 has been discontinued,it is NOT a new model
Paul:p :p

Originally posted by Paul Mazzola
The 5900 has been discontinued,it is NOT a new model
Paul:p :p

This is old news. It is still available for purchase new at many places and of course used as well.

Jim

So which model the 5900 or the 3910 is more likely to hold the edge in resale value in the future?
I bet the 5900 since it will continue to be a much desired audio only player for dvd-audio and SACD even after we get HDDVD and BluRay.

Greetings,

I suggest we let the 3910 versus 5900 topic die. This thread should really be reserved for discussion of the 3910 and it's attributes ( positive and negative ) as well as for information related to it's performance, features, and for fielding questions from owners both current and potential.


Regards,

I suggest we let the 3910 versus 5900 topic die.

Thx, or just make a new thread for that.

-- Cain

Your right I agree.

Well I got a replacement for my 3910, and I'm gonna get the firmware upgrade any day now.

The weird thing is the replacement player has a much lower serial number than the original player did, and it came over one month later...

-- Cain

Ps Did anyone figure out how to tell what firmware we have now ??

Ps Did anyone figure out how to tell what firmware we have now ?? I'd really like to know this. Picking my 3910 up tomorrow evening.

THANKS!
-Paul

Greetings,


I don't think anyone really knows how ti find out which firmware version is installed. To be honest I really don't see why this would be priviledged information. Maybe a call to Denon.......hey it couldn't hurt....right?


Regards,

I tried e-mailing Denon to find out how to check firmware, but they haven't gotten back to me yet. They're usually pretty good about a quick response, and I don't see why they wouldn't provide the necessary info, but we'll see. I'll post what I find out (if anything).

Jason

According to the RS-232 protocol documentation you can query the firmware version. I've got a 3910 on order & will be writing a serial driver, so I will implement the query. The 3910 is due later this week or early next...

no need for writing a driver, many terminal softwares can send the command required, I will also try.

Yeah telnet or hyper terminal or putty can do it :)

- D

From Denon's reply to my e-mail:

To confirm the software version on the DVD3910:
1. Turn the small power button off on the front of the unit.
2. Hold down the PLAY and OPEN/CLOSE buttons on the front of the unit, both at the same time.
3. Turn the power back on and continue holding the buttons for 3 seconds, then let go.
4. After “>II LOADING” shows on the display, press the 3,2,6,5 buttons on the remote (in that order) and then press the MENU button to see the version.

I haven't tried it yet, as I just got home, but hopefully this'll do the trick! :)

Jason

Originally posted by JasonColeman
From Denon's reply to my e-mail:

To confirm the software version on the DVD3910:
1. Turn the small power button off on the front of the unit.
2. Hold down the PLAY and OPEN/CLOSE buttons on the front of the unit, both at the same time.
3. Turn the power back on and continue holding the buttons for 3 seconds, then let go.
4. After “>II LOADING” shows on the display, press the 3,2,6,5 buttons on the remote (in that order) and then press the MENU button to see the version.

I haven't tried it yet, as I just got home, but hopefully this'll do the trick! :)

Jason

To add slightly to this --- with "step 4" above --- you can press the menu button as many times as you want, and it will cycle through the 6 different firmware version numbers (there are 6 separate version numbers for pieces of firmware in the player).

Well it does work, but I'm not quite sure what I'm looking at. I'll ask for guidance before I post. :confused: "ESS" "SYSTEM" "DRV" "CNE" etc followed by various numbers.

Jason

The one starting with ESS is the firmware version. Yours probably says ESS 6609. It may have a dash something after it.

Originally posted by JasonColeman
From Denon's reply to my e-mail:

To confirm the software version on the DVD3910:
1. Turn the small power button off on the front of the unit.
2. Hold down the PLAY and OPEN/CLOSE buttons on the front of the unit, both at the same time.
3. Turn the power back on and continue holding the buttons for 3 seconds, then let go.
4. After “>II LOADING” shows on the display, press the 3,2,6,5 buttons on the remote (in that order) and then press the MENU button to see the version.

I haven't tried it yet, as I just got home, but hopefully this'll do the trick! :)

Jason

That's exactly how you check it on the 5900 also, I must not have explained it correctly in previous posts, must be because the 3910 has a different power/standby scenario.

Jim

Originally posted by keenan
First, power off the player. Then, with the open/close and play buttons held down, turn the power back on. When you see the play and pause icons appear on the front panel display, hit the enter button on the remote to toggle through the various settings. When finished, power the player off again.
Jim-

Do you not have to enter any numerical sequence with the 5900? I think that was the big difference...otherwise they are the same.

Now if I could only figure out what the hell all this means! :D

Thanks,

Jason

Originally posted by JasonColeman
Jim-

Do you not have to enter any numerical sequence with the 5900? I think that was the big difference...otherwise they are the same.

Jason

No, I missed that part, read it too fast, no number sequence for the 5900.

Jim :p

I used the trick and also the serial port command.
Here's what I've got:

ESS 6609-1
MAKE DAY 710A
DRV 030825
SYSTEM 6767-2
DSP 6770
CNE 20040609

with the serial command

02h -> STX
31h -> reply code
20h -> answer code
30h -> system = 0
39h -> system = 9
2Dh -> system = -
31h -> system = 1
30h -> drive = 0
38h -> drive = 8
32h -> drive = 2
35h -> drive = 5
36h -> panel = 6
37h -> panel = 7
36h -> panel = 6
37h -> panel = 7
03h -> ETX
43h -> checksum
34h -> checksum

system = 09-1 is the ESS 6609-1
drive = 0825 is the DRV 030825
panel = 6767 is the SYSTEM 6767-2

The firmware fix of Denon was not applied nor the region free firmware.
If other can post what they got it will be more informative.

EL

Sweet! :)

Originally posted by steviec
The 5900 still blows the 3910 out of the water! The 3910 actually looks kind of cheap.Some will be happy with it but the 5900 is so good in the audio department you can use it as a standalone dvd-audio/ sacd player when bluray comes out. Would not want to do that with the 3910.

The 5900 suffers horribly from the macroblocking bug and on displays where this bug can be seen the 5900 is, imo, unwatchable. So while it is a great audio player, in the video department it has some major issues. If you go the SDI route then it is perfect but by the time you add that and an external scaler youre looking at another $2k.

I'll be using iLink form the 3910 so when you take the video section into account, the 3910 beats the 5900 hands down for me. (i've owned both btw).

John

Originally posted by JasonColeman
From Denon's reply to my e-mail:

To confirm the software version on the DVD3910:
1. Turn the small power button off on the front of the unit.
2. Hold down the PLAY and OPEN/CLOSE buttons on the front of the unit, both at the same time.
3. Turn the power back on and continue holding the buttons for 3 seconds, then let go.
4. After “>II LOADING” shows on the display, press the 3,2,6,5 buttons on the remote (in that order) and then press the MENU button to see the version.

Jason


Thank you for posting this Jason !!

-- Cain

Expletive: You must have got a bad unit or an older one without the new firmware .Mine is new and has the very latest firmware upgrades.No problem so you speak for yourself.
AND this is all I have to say on this issue as this thread is for the 3910 owners.
Please p.m. me if you want to discuss the issue further.

Though I'm at work ( :mad: ) and can't check my 3910, EL's settings seem to be the same as mine.

From his post:

ESS 6609-1
MAKE DAY 710A
DRV 030825
SYSTEM 6767-2
DSP 6770
CNE 20040609

So what exactly does all this mean? I haven't loaded the firmware disc yet either.

Jason

Here is mine from an Australian DVD-3910-

ESS 6609-3
MAKE DAY 725f
DRV 030825
SYSTEM 6767-2
DSP 6770
CNE 20040609

Slightly different.

Spero D.

Originally posted by steviec
Expletive: You must have got a bad unit or an older one without the new firmware .Mine is new and has the very latest firmware upgrades.No problem so you speak for yourself.
AND this is all I have to say on this issue as this thread is for the 3910 owners.
Please p.m. me if you want to discuss the issue further.

My opinion on why the 3910 would be better then the 5900 in some areas shoudnt be taboo on the 3910 owners thread, especially since i am a 3910 owner and i didnt mean to disrespect your 5900. :)

I don't believe firmware has anything to do with it as Denon recalled a firmware patch that supposedly mitigated the macroblocking issue but didnt. The issue lives in the Faroudja chip (2310) and all players that use it could have the issue. The 3910 has a hardware change of some sort which mostly eliminates MB in some resolutions and completely at 720p.

IMO, 3910 users should try to use 720p if possible.

Seeing MB is largely display dependent so if you are not seeing it then thats a good thing and have no reason to upgrade because the 5900 is a stellar performer otherwise!

John

Originally posted by MarkStega
According to the RS-232 protocol documentation you can query the firmware version. I've got a 3910 on order & will be writing a serial driver, so I will implement the query. The 3910 is due later this week or early next...

What type of driver will you be writing?

Any chance it would consider a plugin for Gerder?

I have modified a GML for my Yamaha 9Z and have some success but I still need to figure our Setting commands verses Control commands.

Thanks

W4ZOO,

Actually, I'm building a CQC RS-232 driver (see http://www.charmedquark.com/ ). I'll look when I'm finished, but my last experience with Girder wasn't very happy. If nothing else, the source for the CQC driver will be publicly viewable, so it may help you get throught the Girder details.

Originally posted by JasonColeman
Though I'm at work ( :mad: ) and can't check my 3910, EL's settings seem to be the same as mine.

From his post:

ESS 6609-1
MAKE DAY 710A
DRV 030825
SYSTEM 6767-2
DSP 6770
CNE 20040609

So what exactly does all this mean? I haven't loaded the firmware disc yet either.

Jason

Greetings,


I checked mine. The firmware version on mine is: ESS 6609-5 and the make day is 831.


Regards,

placidman,
did you install the latest firmware from Denon?
I'm waiting for the CD to do it ... :( and compare version.

I have just returned my 2910 due to green push and problems loading DVDs.....I have ordered a 3910 as a replacement, has anyone experienced the same problems with the 3910?

Originally posted by EL
placidman,
did you install the latest firmware from Denon?
I'm waiting for the CD to do it ... :( and compare version.


Greetings,


Yes, I installed the latest firmware.


Regards,

I am a 3910 owner and after the upgrade I still find myself tweaking quite a bit (picture). Does anyone else feel that they are missing something like the Onkyo SP 1000? Anyone else contemplating a switch to that unit???

Does the 3910 or 2910 have ability to turn off the players LCD display (or dimmer)?

Originally posted by RobZ
Does the 3910 or 2910 have ability to turn off the players LCD display (or dimmer)?

Yes for the 3910 (don't know about the 2910).

Originally posted by joerodcowboys
I am a 3910 owner and after the upgrade I still find myself tweaking quite a bit (picture). Does anyone else feel that they are missing something like the Onkyo SP 1000? Anyone else contemplating a switch to that unit???


Greetings,


No, I can't say that I do. I too spent the first week or so tweaking things. I have gotten things dialed in quite nicely with the 3910 connected to my front projector via DVI at 720p.


Regards,

I would hope the SP1000 could one up the 3910. At $700 more retail one could assume there's more under the hood. I think it might with SI504 for film material anyways.

Hi all,

I'm new to the forums and this is my first post (woo-hoo!). I just wanted to introduce mydelf and say thanks to all who've posted in this thread. I have been a home theater addict for the past few years. This forum has been very educational and has helped me in my decision to replace my old Marantz SR9200 reciever and DV8400 player with a Denon 3805 and the 3910 player.
I just got the equipment home last night, and will be hooking it all up this evening (hopefully).
For those of you that are experienced with the 3910, I have a couple hook-up questions. I'm hoping to run the component video through the 3805, so the reciever can take care of all the a/v switching. But I am concerned about degrading the pic quality. Any thoughts if this is a good/bad idea?
Also, I'm using component instead of DVI for a couple reasons:

1) I'd like the convenience (for the family) of full video switching through the 3805 (if the pic isn't degraded too much) which does component ( but no DVI switching). This was one of the promises to my better-half when picking out the new gear.
2) My TV is a Sony 34XBR800 high-def widescreen. I've been told that on my set, because it's a tube and has a smaller screen size, that I probably wouldn't notice much difference between component and DVI. The DVI has much more effect on large porjectors, plasmas, and DLP's. Also the Sony doesn't support the 720p that everybody has been raving about, so even if I do DVI, I'd have to go 480p or 1080i.

Any comments or ideas? Is my thinking or my information good or is it suspect? Any hints or ideas would be really helpful. I just wanted to get some opinions before I started with project "Put all this crap together"...as my wife calls it. :)

Halidon

Halidon-

Welcome and congrats on your purchases! I think you'll be very happy with the 3805/3910 combo. As far as running component through the 3805, that's exactly what I do and there's no effect on signal quality. I've A/B'd it directly to my 3910 and through the 3805 and don't notice any difference in the picture. The convenience factor is certainly a bonus with being able to do all the switching within the receiver.

As far as your particular setup, I'll defer to the video experts. I'm still trying to figure out all of the settings myself. 720p, 768p, etc...:confused:

Good luck and have fun!

Jason

Halidon, congrats on a nice combo- you will be very happy with it. I agree that you will probably not notice the difference, either between DVI/Component or going through receiver/going direct. Although I started out that way, I ended up with a universal remote (Harmony 659) and I now use DVI and go direct to the TV. All audio of course goes to the receiver. The Harmony remote is very easy to use and program via their web site. With a push of just one button (i.e. "Watch TV" or "Listen to Music" or "Watch a DVD") all needed devices turn on and the inputs all switch according to what you want them to do. Great for wife and kids & best $120 I have spent so far!

Finally got mine. The sound quality seems quite good so far.
Getting ready for a movie. I'll try avia and ve over the weekend. No time now!

I took the plunge and upgraded from a Samsung HD931 and wow.........this unit is awesome. I have it hooked up with a DVI cable to a Sharp LC-37G4U with the 3910 set at 720p. Nemo looks like he is going to jump right into your lap! The blacks are blacker than black and the unit is very bright. I calibrated it no problem with an Avia disk and that's only half of it. DVD Audio rules! I have the 3910 multichannel hooked into my Yamaha RX-V750 reciever with 6 monster cables. My speakers are Paradigm monitor 7s with a cc-370 center channel. I had to order my wall mounted mini-monitors but even with just the 3 speakers and my Velodyne SPL ll - 1000 the sound is fantastic. I thought toslink cable sound was good before but what a difference. I highly recommend this unit to anyone who is serious about music and movies. Why spend thousands on a HD TV and then hook it up to a bottom of the line DVD player? Treat yourself. You won't be sorry! This is my first Denon product but it won't be my last.

Originally posted by Mary Ann
Why spend thousands on a HD TV and then hook it up to a bottom of the line DVD player?

Perfect point. There are so many threads from people who spend $3000-$4000 on a TV and then complain when their cheapo DVD player has poor build quality or doesn't perform perfectly. The 3910 is a great player and worth every penny.

Tsteves and Mary Ann...welcome to the club! The 3910 is really quite awesome! I'm about 90% music and 10% movies and the audio performance is outrageous! CD, DVD-A, SACD all sounds incredible. The more I listen, the more I like. :D And the video performance is phenomenal, too! I upgraded from a Pio Elite 45a and I'm thrilled with the results.

BTW, Mary Ann...might you be from Brooklyn? :) (crows cackling in background)

Jason

JASON COLEMAN, Howard Stern RULES!!! I already purchased Sirius!!! Oh and go 3910!!!

I was wondering if this unit can convert PAL to NTSC using the HDMI output....:confused:

Originally posted by Mary Ann
I took the plunge and upgraded from a Samsung HD931 and wow.........this unit is awesome. I have it hooked up with a DVI cable to a Sharp LC-37G4U with the 3910 set at 720p. Nemo looks like he is going to jump right into your lap! The blacks are blacker than black and the unit is very bright. I calibrated it no problem with an Avia disk and that's only half of it. DVD Audio rules! I have the 3910 multichannel hooked into my Yamaha RX-V750 reciever with 6 monster cables. My speakers are Paradigm monitor 7s with a cc-370 center channel. I had to order my wall mounted mini-monitors but even with just the 3 speakers and my Velodyne SPL ll - 1000 the sound is fantastic. I thought toslink cable sound was good before but what a difference. I highly recommend this unit to anyone who is serious about music and movies. Why spend thousands on a HD TV and then hook it up to a bottom of the line DVD player? Treat yourself. You won't be sorry! This is my first Denon product but it won't be my last.


Greetings,


Mary Ann, I am glad that you are happy with your 3910 as well as your new Sharp ! I am sorry that your Sony did not work out but I am sure that this solution will be a better fit in that room. Once you get the Mini Monitors be sure to adjust the 3910's multi channel out using your SPL meter. This will help achieve an even better result with DVD Audio and don't forget to try Super Audio CD as well.

Stay in touch !


Regards,

I just had a thought. Everyone is always talking about how nice the audio section of the 3910 is, which usually is regarding DVD-Audio or SACD, over either Denon Link or the analog in connections. They always seem to say "after I tweaked it it was awesome" so is it that bad out of the box, or what?

Using an SPL meter is impossible for me, and no it's not because I don't own one, I'm 90% blind, so I just can't see well enough to use it. So knowing that, I'm curious if any real tweaking is required for the output, I know I may have to tweak the subwoofer level in the Denon AVR-3805, but other then that, thoughts?

Next, how 'needed' is Avia? The dealer I'm buying my TV from has a policy of "we don't sell a tv without a ISF calibration" so they'll do that free I'm told, which is awesome! Do I need to do anythign overly special with regards to setting up the 3910?

cheers!

- D

Hi all,
Does 3910 play VCD's? I'm surprised my 1910 doesn't but decided to replace my 1910 with 3910 anyway because of macroblocking.
Thanks

If you have a 3805 reciever then all you need to do is use the auto setup mic. you always need to tweak a mew piece of equiptment from the one you had pryor, kris always says this so its not something thats odd,