First of the year out here.


Thanks, thats good news as I hope the 3910 arrives along with my new Onix Rockets (also shipping later in January).

Fustrating though not to have the 3910 for my SXRD. I'm going through DVD and music withdrawl over here. :(

Anyone ever noticed a loud vibration noise from the cd tray ONLY during DVD menus and previews. Soon as the movies starts it INSTANTLY cuts back to near silent operation. I'm talking like, soon as you exit the menu, the vibration disappears and the movie plays fine. STRANGE
It happens to me as well. On my Metallica DVD-audio it sometimes shows me the copyright screen then starts to go to the menu and starts vibrating. The video signal goes off and it is just stuck, very madning. There was some mention in this thread somewhere of the same behavior.

Can I play DVD-A Audio disk over the digital link, or do I need to buy all the analog cables?

I have it hooked up with a optical link, and no sound comes from the DVD-A.

Thanks

Can I play DVD-A Audio disk over the digital link, or do I need to buy all the analog cables?

I have it hooked up with a optical link, and no sound comes from the DVD-A.

Thanks

Nope. YOu need to use Denon-Link, iLink or analog for DVD-A and SACD.

Kal

AnthemAVM,

Some things to be aware of . . . If you go with Denon Link, you'll be using your receiver's DACs and equalization settings. If you go with all those analog cables, you'll be using the 3910's DACs and equalization. Don't know what receiver you're using, but you might want to consider whether its DACs and equalization capabilities are better or worse than the 3910's.

http://www.cine4home.de/tests/dvd-pl...nupdateDVI.htm

Anyone know what this is about.. something about better colors from DVI/HDMI?

http://www.cine4home.de/tests/dvd-pl...nupdateDVI.htm

Anyone know what this is about.. something about better colors from DVI/HDMI?
Your link is 404.

http://www.cine4home.de/tests/dvd-pl...nupdateDVI.htm

Anyone know what this is about.. something about better colors from DVI/HDMI?

I ran it through babelfish, so it's not a perfect translation, but it seems to say they tested with DVI and found green was emphasised, and with hdmi and found that magenta was emphasised. Then they got an update from Denon and it was perfect.

If anyone out there reads German, a more accurate translation would be appreciated. I didn't see them mention what the update was....

AnthemAVM,

Some things to be aware of . . . If you go with Denon Link, you'll be using your receiver's DACs and equalization settings. If you go with all those analog cables, you'll be using the 3910's DACs and equalization. Don't know what receiver you're using, but you might want to consider whether its DACs and equalization capabilities are better or worse than the 3910's.

The DACs can make a difference, but the analog output stage after the Dac is where most players degrade the sound. Listen to both and you will know what is best.

So, let me see if I got this straight. My Amp, Denon AVR-3806, carries Burr-Brown PCM-1791 24/192 Audio DACs and the DVD-3910 has PCM-1796s. If I connect via Denon Link the two I get worse performance? Which one would be the recommended connection in order to get SACD digitally, as well?

So, let me see if I got this straight. My Amp, Denon AVR-3806, carries Burr-Brown PCM-1791 24/192 Audio DACs and the DVD-3910 has PCM-1796s. If I connect via Denon Link the two I get worse performance? Which one would be the recommended connection in order to get SACD digitally, as well?
The idea is to let the best DACs do the "DAC'ing." In the scenario you mention, the 3910 has the superior DACs, soooo . . use the ANALOG outputs of the 3910 to connect to the 3806. (If the 3806 DACs were better, you'd use a digital link from the 3910.)

The idea is to let the best DACs do the "DAC'ing." In the scenario you mention, the 3910 has the superior DACs, soooo . . use the ANALOG outputs of the 3910 to connect to the 3806. (If the 3806 DACs were better, you'd use a digital link from the 3910.)

Yes, but then again digital connections have zero losses whereas analog have losses which depend on the quality of the cables So, which one is better? :(

Yes, but then again digital connections have zero losses whereas analog have losses which depend on the quality of the cables So, which one is better? :(

Only your ears can tell which is better in your hone with your set up.

Only your ears can tell which is better in your hone with your set up.

Being so many years in IT, we have learned to benchmark everything which is good. But, on this one I would like to thank you guys because you gave a reality check and you are absolutely right. The ear is a peculiar benchmarking instrument :)

Being so many years in IT, we have learned to benchmark everything which is good. But, on this one I would like to thank you guys because you gave a reality check and you are absolutely right. The ear is a peculiar benchmarking instrument :)
For either of the sets of DACs to be the determining factor in the sound of the system, they would need to be the weakest link. I can't imagine a system where that would be the case - OK, I *can* imagine it, but I couldn't afford it. Therefore, with ths "which DACs should I use" discussion, we are nearly into the purely theoretical.

But HEY! That's what we do here! :)

Anyone ever noticed a loud vibration noise from the cd tray ONLY during DVD menus and previews. Soon as the movies starts it INSTANTLY cuts back to near silent operation. I'm talking like, soon as you exit the menu, the vibration disappears and the movie plays fine. STRANGE


My player does the same thing!

My player does the same thing!
Spinning up to read data is different than streaming the movie itself. But still, something must be out of balance for it to do that.

Yes, but then again digital connections have zero losses whereas analog have losses which depend on the quality of the cables So, which one is better? :(
Yes, you should use decent cables rather than the free ones that come with the player. If you do, the DACs will make more of a difference than the loss of signal using analogs, IMO.

I didn't start noticing mine until the past month or so. But the player hasn't been moved in at least 7 months. Very strange indeed!

Does anyone have first hand knowledge of this company, Hot Rod Audio Mods, and their Stage 2 Mods for the Deno 3910 ($2,300)?

Per HRAM:

Check out what the H.R.A.M. model includes!
DENON DVD 3910. Black or silver (brand new, A-stock).
APL HI FI MASTER CLOCK GENERATOR. This clock beats the pants off any other we have tried including Audiocomm and LC audio. The WHOLE CIRCUIT is substantially upgraded, not just the 2 dollar oscillator. (NO OTHER CLOCK UPGRADE DOES THIS MUCH !!) There is more labor involved and the results are far better than any clock we have ever tried !!! Chances are you will get rid of your high-end CD player and finally use one unit for music AND movies !! The APL HI FI Master Clock Generator reclocks Analog REDBOOK, SACD, the digital output AND the VIDEO DAC as well. (There are 3 separate outputs on the APL board)
FULL COPPER SHIELDING. and vibration damping internally. This protects the unit from extraneous RFI and EMI, helping to protect low level detail. The damping actually absorbs micro-vibrations which can cause jitter and clouding of detail.

COMPLETE POWER SUPPLY OVERHAUL.This includes upgrading the diode bridge with Fairchild Stealth ultra fast soft recovery diodes along with upgrading all the key power capacitors to much quiter audio-grade components. This not only increases the capacitance of the power supply but it dramatically decreases noise as well.

COMPLETE ANALOG OUTPUT OVERHAUL INCLUDING APL HI FI PARALLEL DAC MOD. This is really where the rubber hits the road. The stock player uses two stereo DAC's for the front 2 channels of the 5.1 analog out as well as the 2 channel outputs. The 2 channel outs employ a "mix" feature which enables multichannel material to be listened to on a 2 channel system. This mod sacrifices the 2 front channels of the 5.1 analog out in order to use thier DAC for the single left channel of the 2 channel out. We then use the other DAC for the right channel, and disable the "mix" feature. This gives the player Parallel DAC's, which is the equivalent of using Monoblock amplifiers. Parallel DAC's are found in only the most expensive audiophile CD players. They give much better channel seperation and better signal to noise ratio along with greater clarity and better instrument layering, more liquid midrange, and a much more "analog" sound.
ANALOG OUTPUT STAGE BIASED INTO CLASS A OPERATION. This is the polishing touch for a truly realistic analog experience.
KLEIN TECH SYSTEMS ISO DAMP DISCS. for complete component vibration isolation. (These are used under the feet of the unit.)
The HRAM modification listed above turns the DVD-3910 into a reference-level source unit. The aim of this modification is to allow you to use one source component for both cinema and high-end, two-channel music playback. The difference between a stock player and an HRAM-modded unit is astounding. The openness and detail are greatly improved, giving layers of soundstage depth only found on very expensive CD players. The soundstage width will expand by nearly 6' to the right and to the left and become roughly 4' taller, it will also deepen for a truly holographic experience. The pace and the rhythm become much more accurate, and the realism is truly visceral.

The HRAM modification uses the same "heart" as the $5,000 APL HI-FI DVD-3910. It shares many characteristics and is much more affordable. If you consider yourself to be somewhat of an audio buff you deserve a source unit of this caliber and value.

Does anyone have first hand knowledge of this company, Hot Rod Audio Mods, and their Stage 2 Mods for the Deno 3910 ($2,300)?

Mike modded my 5910 and it is one of the finest sources I've ever heard. Very worthwhile for those who want to squeeze every last drop of performance from their audio/video experience.

Got good news today. My replacement Denon 3910 is shipping from California after an almost 2 month wait.

btw...does anyone else use the Denon Link 3 cable to link up to their Denon 3806?

I'm interested in surround SACD/DVDA and of course DVD 5.1 sound. I'm planning on using the Denon Link to cut down on cables and get surround sound through one cable.

[QUOTE=klewis]Does anyone have first hand knowledge of this company, Hot Rod Audio Mods, and their Stage 2 Mods for the Deno 3910 ($2,300)?


The APL HI FI PARALLEL DAC MOD sounds snake-oilish IMO. But if you are ready to give up one set of outputs to try it out, go for it. See if they will give you a chance to A/B a modded unit with your own.

[QUOTE=klewis]Does anyone have first hand knowledge of this company, Hot Rod Audio Mods, and their Stage 2 Mods for the Deno 3910 ($2,300)?


The APL HI FI PARALLEL DAC MOD sounds snake-oilish IMO. But if you are ready to give up one set of outputs to try it out, go for it. See if they will give you a chance to A/B a modded unit with your own.
I must admit that I have never understood, and will never understand, spending ~$1200 on a DVD player and then spending ~twice as much to mod it.

[QUOTE=DigiPete]
I must admit that I have never understood, and will never understand, spending ~$1200 on a DVD player and then spending ~twice as much to mod it.
I agree with you. It would make more sense to just buy the 5910 (cheaper than buying and modding the 3910).

Got good news today. My replacement Denon 3910 is shipping from California after an almost 2 month wait.

btw...does anyone else use the Denon Link 3 cable to link up to their Denon 3806?

I'm interested in surround SACD/DVDA and of course DVD 5.1 sound. I'm planning on using the Denon Link to cut down on cables and get surround sound through one cable.
Since the audio DACs in the 3910 are better than those in the 3806, you might prefer the analog outs for SACD/DVD-A.

[QUOTE=pepar]
I agree with you. It would make more sense to just buy the 5910 (cheaper than buying and modding the 3910).
I'm sure we'll here from someone arguing that a modded 3910 is better than a stock 5910.

[QUOTE=BillP]
I'm sure we'll here from someone arguing that a modded 3910 is better than a stock 5910.
Sure, why not? Denon didn't set out to build a cost no object DVD player. They were priced 1st and then built. There were compromises made to fit the price point. If you start replacing $0.60 parts with $9.00 parts, why couldn't you improve the performance. I have no problem believing a nicely modified 3910 would trounce a 5910 in audio performance. If you dont believe so than you have some learning to do. Audio performance has more to do with power supply and analog output design than the chips you kids like to talk about.

$0.02

[QUOTE=pepar]
If you start replacing $0.60 parts with $9.00 parts, why couldn't you improve the performance.

You could but you could also diminish performance or have no effect, depending on the particular parts chosen. Price and labor are not guarantees of improvement.

Kal

[QUOTE=pepar]
Sure, why not? Denon didn't set out to build a cost no object DVD player. They were priced 1st and then built. There were compromises made to fit the price point. If you start replacing $0.60 parts with $9.00 parts, why couldn't you improve the performance. I have no problem believing a nicely modified 3910 would trounce a 5910 in audio performance. If you dont believe so than you have some learning to do. Audio performance has more to do with power supply and analog output design than the chips you kids like to talk about.

$0.02
And worth every penny! :)

I'm no kid and I'm quite familiar with both sides of this argument. I happen to fit into neither side however. My point is that if I'd have wanted a $3500 DVD player, I would have bought one. I choose my price point based on . . ready? . . PRICE. From then on, it was a matter of finding the best one for that price. With ~$1000 to spend, could I have bought a $300 DVD player and modded it for $600 to be better than the 3910. I don't *think* so.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Fair enough!

What kills me, is that the less expensive players have no digital (firewire) connections, yet have the weaker DACs. Their more expensive bretheren, have both the Firewire AND much better DACs, but chances are the DACs are so good that you won't want to use the digital connection anyway!

Anyone else confounded by the logic here? (i.e. Denon 2910 vs 3910)

Fair enough!
For the record, I do accept that a properly modded 3910 *is* better than a stock 5910. But then the investment is greater, perhaps significantly, than the price of a stock 5910 (at least a "B" stock unit).

The question, in my mind, is this: If you have $3500 - $4000 to spend on a DVD player, is it better to mod a lesser expensive platform or simply buy a $3500 - $4000 unit?

EDIT: I love to see a shootout of the two above scenarios . . .

What kills me, is that the less expensive players have no digital (firewire) connections, yet have the weaker DACs. Their more expensive bretheren, have both the Firewire AND much better DACs, but chances are the DACs are so good that you won't want to use the digital connection anyway!

Anyone else confounded by the logic here? (i.e. Denon 2910 vs 3910)
Perhaps the logic is that if you're buying a "better" DVD player, you'll have a "better" pre-pro/receiver, too.

The question, in my mind, is this: If you have $3500 - $4000 to spend on a DVD player, is it better to mod a lesser expensive platform or simply buy a $3500 - $4000 unit?
If I wanted to spend that kind of $$ on a player, I'd probably mod the 5910!

If I wanted to spend that kind of $$ on a player, I'd probably mod the 5910!
Right-o! And would that result in a better unit than doing some sharp shopping and spending it all on one high-end player?

It seems like a choice between sound and vision priorities. A modded 3910 might be able to have better analog audio output than the 5910, but how could general modding improve on the 5910 realta using the 3910 processing?

btw...does anyone else use the Denon Link 3 cable to link up to their Denon 3806?

I'm interested in surround SACD/DVDA and of course DVD 5.1 sound. I'm planning on using the Denon Link to cut down on cables and get surround sound through one cable.

I use DL3 between my 3910 and 4806 receiver, and it works great. In addition to cutting down on cables (which is a great benefit) another big advantage is for those of us who have 7.1 speaker systems. With analog cables it can only deliver SACD/DVDA sound to 5 satellites, whereas with DL3 it will deliver it to all 7.

I use DL3 between my 3910 and 4806 receiver, and it works great. In addition to cutting down on cables (which is a great benefit) another big advantage is for those of us who have 7.1 speaker systems. With analog cables it can only deliver SACD/DVDA sound to 5 satellites, whereas with DL3 it will deliver it to all 7.

That is incorrect... if you are set up properly, you will get 7.1 out of your SSP / REC, regardless of DL3 or analog.

I use DL3 between my 3910 and 4806 receiver, and it works great. In addition to cutting down on cables (which is a great benefit) another big advantage is for those of us who have 7.1 speaker systems. With analog cables it can only deliver SACD/DVDA sound to 5 satellites, whereas with DL3 it will deliver it to all 7.


Thanks, one of the main reasons I went with the 3910 and a 3806 is that they use the DL3 for SACD/DVDA. I needed to cut down on all the cables I was using with my Outlaw ICBM and my previous Denon 3300.

Plus the fact it has HDMI.

That is incorrect... if you are set up properly, you will get 7.1 out of your SSP / REC, regardless of DL3 or analog.

My mistake then. Perhaps I was thinking of my older Denon receiver (3802). I'm pretty sure that it could not deliver 7.1 if fed by the analog inputs.

That is incorrect... if you are set up properly, you will get 7.1 out of your SSP / REC, regardless of DL3 or analog.

Could you explain how you get 7.1 out of the 3805/3806 using the analog outs of the 3910?

Could you explain how you get 7.1 out of the 3805/3806 using the analog outs of the 3910?
I'd like to hear that one, too. :)

Could you explain how you get 7.1 out of the 3805/3806 using the analog outs of the 3910?
Yeah, I too was wondering where they hid those analog outputs?

I must agree that Denon link is a nice way to cut down on my cabling mess as well. I still have way too much going on back there, but it certainly does help.

Yeah, I too was wondering where they hid those analog outputs?


We could be waiting a while for the answer, because to the best of my knowledge when you go analog the signals are output directly, bypassing the receiver's surround circuitry. Only if the 3910 had 7 analog outs (plus sub) would you get sound out of the rear surrounds. But if there is another way, I'm all ears.

I finally got my replacement 3910 today and this one works! No broken tray.

Because I'm waiting for the delivery of my new 5.1 speaker system (Onix Rockets) I can't add the 3910 to my 3806 yet but I did attach the 3910 to the front inputs of my SXRD and watched the DVD "Mr and Mrs Smith".

Looked good using the composite inputs but I imagine the DVD player will look even better once I set it up for HDMI with SXRD.

btw....there was quite a layer change during the movie....seemed to stop for over a full second....is that normal for this player?

btw....there was quite a layer change during the movie....seemed to stop for over a full second....is that normal for this player?

It's definitely not the fastest on the block with layer changes. It does seem to vary by movie. Some it's almost undetectable on others it's a bit longer.

We could be waiting a while for the answer, because to the best of my knowledge when you go analog the signals are output directly, bypassing the receiver's surround circuitry. Only if the 3910 had 7 analog outs (plus sub) would you get sound out of the rear surrounds. But if there is another way, I'm all ears.

If you are not using pure direct on the Denon 5805, you can overlay DSP on both Ext In and DL3 signals.... my undetanding on after reading the 4806 docs was that you can do it also... If I was confused by the wonderful Denon manual, I apologize.. it is so well writen. :)

It works on my setup 5805 and 3910.. both analog and DL3 tested. I was refering to Bob's 4806, don't know about the 3X06 units..

No News for the Better than Black problem ?

No News for the Better than Black problem ?

If it is a problem for you, ship it back to Denon USA in NJ or CA. They will fix it and send it back in a couple of weeks.

I finally got my replacement 3910 today and this one works! No broken tray.

...

I can't add the 3910 to my 3806 yet but I did attach the 3910 to the front inputs of my SXRD and watched the DVD "Mr and Mrs Smith".

Looked good using the composite inputs but I imagine the DVD player will look even better once I set it up for HDMI with SXRD.

...

That is an understatement! It will look like night and day comparing composite inputs to component/hdmi. I have one connected to my SXRD and set it to output 1080i...pic looks great.

I suggest you rewatch Mr. and Mrs. Smith when you install in your final wiring configuration... Angelina looks sooooo much better! :D

If it is a problem for you, ship it back to Denon USA in NJ or CA. They will fix it and send it back in a couple of weeks.

:eek: It's a hardware problem ?? Have you a source for this information ?

thank you

:eek: It's a hardware problem ?? Have you a source for this information ?

thank you

Search this thread, there are quite a few post regarding it and a few people who have sent theirs in to Denon.

For some passing BTB is a non issue, for others the world stops spinning. Mine does not pass BTB and with my CRT it doesn't make a difference.

It will look like night and day comparing composite inputs to component/hdmi.What about comparing component to HDMI? How big of a difference would one notice? I am quite miffed by the fact that although my display has HDMI inputs, it does not support HDCP, and I seem to be "shut out" of using the HDMI output from my 3910. :mad:

That is an understatement! It will look like night and day comparing composite inputs to component/hdmi. I have one connected to my SXRD and set it to output 1080i...pic looks great.

I suggest you rewatch Mr. and Mrs. Smith when you install in your final wiring configuration... Angelina looks sooooo much better! :D


When I do attach an HDMI cable from the Denon to the SXRD, will all I have to do is go into a menu on the 3910 and select HDMI output?

I was reading somewhere that I may have to first use a video cable to see the 3910 menus before I can then use the HDMI selection.

You can select HDMI at whatever resolution you want right from the front panel, so no need to set it up with other cables first.

You can select HDMI at whatever resolution you want right from the front panel, so no need to set it up with other cables first.

thanks, I'll give it a shot.

I have an issue running my 3910 using the hdmi through my Yamaha RX-V4600 receiver. The sound will output over the firewire, but will not display an image. My HD-Directivo outputs fine through the receiver using hdmi. So I just hook the 3910 using hdmi straight to my Toshiba 62HM84 T.V. and it works just fine. Any ideas, firmware or other?

using:

Yamaha RX-V4600 - receiver
Toshiba 62-HM8 - TV
Denon DVD-3910 - disc player
HD-Directivo
Mirage Omnisat speakersX7
SVS 16-46PCI - subwoofer

I am looking at seriously upgrading my HT system. I have the following:

Toshiba 51H83 HD rear projection display
Bose Acoustimass 10
Best Buy special JVC DVD player
Generic Pioneer receiver that came with the Bose system

The TV is not going anywhere anytime soon. My priorities are to upgrade the DVD player and receiver first and then the speakers.

For the DVD player and receiver, I am contemplating the Denon 3910/3806 combo as well as the 2910/3806 combo. I'd prefer the 3805 due to the lower cost but I don't want to drop that sort of change and not have any HDMI capability for when I DO upgrade my TV (prob in the next 2-3 years).

I have been looking at sites such as crutchfield but stumbled upon another authorized on-line retailer, dakmart. They sell refurbished equipment at substantially lower prices than retail (no surprise there). They also talk about their equipment being "B" stock. What does that mean?

Would you recommend my purchasing refurb equipment to save about $750 on the 3910/3806 combo and $350 on the 2910/3806 combo?

The only real benefits that I can see with going to the 3910 player is the Denon link with maybe a little better picture quality (which might not be noticeable with my current TV).

I think I am pretty set on the 3806 versus the 3805 because it has HDMI switching. Since my TV has only 1 DVI-D input, I can run HDMI cables from my HD cable box and the new DVD player to the receiver and send that output to my TV via an HDMI/DVD adapter.

Tim

I am looking at seriously upgrading my HT system. I have the following:

Toshiba 51H83 HD rear projection display
Bose Acoustimass 10
Best Buy special JVC DVD player
Generic Pioneer receiver that came with the Bose system

The TV is not going anywhere anytime soon. My priorities are to upgrade the DVD player and receiver first and then the speakers.

For the DVD player and receiver, I am contemplating the Denon 3910/3806 combo as well as the 2910/3806 combo. I'd prefer the 3805 due to the lower cost but I don't want to drop that sort of change and not have any HDMI capability for when I DO upgrade my TV (prob in the next 2-3 years).

I have been looking at sites such as crutchfield but stumbled upon another authorized on-line retailer, dakmart. They sell refurbished equipment at substantially lower prices than retail (no surprise there). They also talk about their equipment being "B" stock. What does that mean?

Would you recommend my purchasing refurb equipment to save about $750 on the 3910/3806 combo and $350 on the 2910/3806 combo?

The only real benefits that I can see with going to the 3910 player is the Denon link with maybe a little better picture quality (which might not be noticeable with my current TV).

I think I am pretty set on the 3806 versus the 3805 because it has HDMI switching. Since my TV has only 1 DVI-D input, I can run HDMI cables from my HD cable box and the new DVD player to the receiver and send that output to my TV via an HDMI/DVD adapter.

Tim
I can comment on only two of your points.

DAKMART is popular and reputable. I purchased a B-stiock 2910 from them. Normally B-stocks have only a 90 day Denon factory warranty, but DAKMART extends it to one year - equivalent to a new unit. I take this to be a statement of confidence in the refurbed units they get from Denon.

HDMI switching is not what it's advertised to be. There is at least one HDMI revision on its way to address existing shortcomings. And there is talk of changing connectors to something more durable. Firmware can be flash upgraded; a physical connector cannot. Hopefully, others more knowledgeable will chime in on this with a specific recommendation. If you "seach this thread" for HDMI, you will find the previous posts. HDMI is a hot topic on the cable TV set top box forums as well.

I've also used Dakmart in the past and they are good.

I would recommend going with the 3806/3910 if you can afford it...at least you will then have the two latest Denon products that will last you for the next few years (till HD players finally get released).

If your not into SACD surround then buying the "B"stock should be a good move. I bought a brand new 3910 (build date is Aug 2005) so I would have the latest Denon Link 3 because I enjoy SACD's in surround. Plus I like having a relationship with a local Denon dealer. Of course I pay more for this relationship.

Note that the audio DACs are better in the 3910 than the 3806, so you might want to use the analogs for SACD instead of DenonLink.

Note that the audio DACs are better in the 3910 than the 3806, so you might want to use the analogs for SACD instead of DenonLink.


I have a Denon 3910 and AVC-a11xv (4806) so in this situation which has the better audio dacs?

DAC this, DAC that. Attention all thread readers, There is way more to a DVD players audio playback capabilities than that one chip everyone loves to talk about.

/rantoff

DAC this, DAC that. Attention all thread readers, There is way more to a DVD players audio playback capabilities than that one chip everyone loves to talk about.

/rantoff
Who remembers who was awarded "Best Supporting Actor?"

:)

DAC this, DAC that. Attention all thread readers, There is way more to a DVD players audio playback capabilities than that one chip everyone loves to talk about.

/rantoff


Ok fair enough

How about I put my question this way:

I have a Denon 3910 and Denon AVC-A11XV (4806) so, given the respective capabilties of each device, would it be better to have them connected via Denon link (ie digital connection) or via analog connection?

I see in a previous post someone suggested that in the case of the 3190/3806 analog connection is better. However I would assume that the AVC-A11XV is a much higher quality device ( I certainly hope so given how much I paid for it)

Forgive such a simple question but I am a complete neophyte when it comes to HT/hi fi.

I heard no real difference between DL and analog but the former lets you take advantage of the digital processing in the 4806 without redundant A/D-D/A conversions.

Kal

I have a Denon 3910 and Denon AVC-A11XV (4806) so, given the respective capabilties of each device, would it be better to have them connected via Denon link (ie digital connection) or via analog connection?Hook 'em both up and do a comparison test. I use analog for 2 channel stuff to take advantage of the 3910's DACs, but D-Link for DVD-A, SACDs, etc. to take advantage of my 3805's auto EQ feature. Can I tell the difference when I'm using the analogs with 2 channel?? Maybe....just a little.

Thanks for the responses.

I'm going to have a go at comparing the analog/digital sound and see if i can tell a difference

regards

Hook 'em both up and do a comparison test. I use analog for 2 channel stuff to take advantage of the 3910's DACs, but D-Link for DVD-A, SACDs, etc. to take advantage of my 3805's auto EQ feature. Can I tell the difference when I'm using the analogs with 2 channel?? Maybe....just a little.

I use the same setup, for the same reasons, and pretty much have the same opinion of the result.

Anyone try the movie "Into The Blue" on the 3910. I tried it this afternoon and it won't play the disc. The disc does play in my Toshiba portable dvd player.

The 3910 tries loading the disc then says STOP. I tried open/close a few times but the disc won't load.
Thought it was the disc but then why does it play on my Toshiba?

Its a Netflix rental.

I wanted to watch the movie in 720p.

Those Netflix discs are very, very scratched. I bet it's the disc (the Tosh must be reading it better through the scratches). As a test, try having Netflix send out a replacement copy of the same movie.

Those Netflix discs are very, very scratched. I bet it's the disc (the Tosh must be reading it better through the scratches). As a test, try having Netflix send out a replacement copy of the same movie.

I tried washing it but still didn't load...your right, I should try a replacement.

What almost gave me a heartattack was this is the first disc I've tried using HDMI cable.

I connected a HDMI cable from the 3910 to my SXRD (using input 7).
I set the 3910 to recognize HDMI at 720p, loaded the disc and nothing. At first I thought it was something I had done wrong on the 3910 or bad HDMI cable.

Turns out it was the disc. "Lilo and Stitch" played fine using the HDMI cable at 720p.

"Into The Blue" must look gorgeous in 720p.

Originally Posted by BuckNaked
Hook 'em both up and do a comparison test. I use analog for 2 channel stuff to take advantage of the 3910's DACs, but D-Link for DVD-A, SACDs, etc. to take advantage of my 3805's auto EQ feature. Can I tell the difference when I'm using the analogs with 2 channel?? Maybe....just a little.


I use the same setup, for the same reasons, and pretty much have the same opinion of the result.


Same here.....

Anyone try the movie "Into The Blue" on the 3910. I tried it this afternoon and it won't play the disc. The disc does play in my Toshiba portable dvd player.

The 3910 tries loading the disc then says STOP. I tried open/close a few times but the disc won't load.
Thought it was the disc but then why does it play on my Toshiba?

Its a Netflix rental.

I wanted to watch the movie in 720p.

No problems at all with my copy from Netflix. Put it in and it spun right up. Never had a problem with the several hundred Netflix disc I've rented.

No problems at all with my copy from Netflix. Put it in and it spun right up. Never had a problem with the several hundred Netflix disc I've rented.


thanks, must be a fluke.

I've never had a problem with Netflix discs on my 3910 either, despite the discs looking scratched. I guess it could be a problem with the disc itself OTB, although then someone would probably have reported it previously to Netflix.

Originally Posted by BuckNaked
Hook 'em both up and do a comparison test. I use analog for 2 channel stuff to take advantage of the 3910's DACs, but D-Link for DVD-A, SACDs, etc. to take advantage of my 3805's auto EQ feature. Can I tell the difference when I'm using the analogs with 2 channel?? Maybe....just a little.
I use the same setup, but without the possibility of a very quick a/b switching method there is no possible way to tell, IMO.

I've never had a problem with Netflix discs on my 3910 either, despite the discs looking scratched. I guess it could be a problem with the disc itself OTB, although then someone would probably have reported it previously to Netflix.


I've tried a few discs from Netflix (Dark Water/ Mr and Mrs Smith) that played fine. Plus "Lilo and Stitch" played fine this afternoon. So its probably not the 3910.

thanks!

I guess it could be a problem with the disc itself OTB, although then someone would probably have reported it previously to Netflix.

Into the Blue is a new release so he was probably the first one to get the disc.

Into the Blue is a new release so he was probably the first one to get the disc.

thats the thing....the disc looks new..not scratched.

after watching the whole movie on the Toshiba, I unplugged the 3910 and tried again...no luck.

oh well.

thats the thing....the disc looks new..not scratched.

after watching the whole movie on the Toshiba, I unplugged the 3910 and tried again...no luck.

oh well.

Look on the bright side. If the 3910 has a set number of disc it will play before dying a terminal death, you didn't waste one on a mediocre movie. :D

thats the thing....the disc looks new..not scratched.
In that case, I bet there's something wrong with the actual disc (I buy a lot of CDs, and every now and then I get a new one that is defective, and just exchange it). Report it to Netflix and ask them to send you a replacement.

In that case, I bet there's something wrong with the actual disc (I buy a lot of CDs, and every now and then I get a new one that is defective, and just exchange it). Report it to Netflix and ask them to send you a replacement.


thanks everyone! :)

Got "March Of The Penguins" from Netflix this evening. It does work on my 3910.

So VIDEOKNG - how do you like your SXRD - how does the 3910 work with it...

Don

So VIDEOKNG - how do you like your SXRD - how does the 3910 work with it...

Don


So far so good. The SXRD has looked fabulous with HD material. Pretty good with SD material.

I'm just getting to play with my 3910 but the few movies I've seen so far have looked good.
Got off to a bad start with the HDMI try today as posted above. I'm watching "March Of The Penguins" with HDMI set at 720p on the SXRD right now but this movie is no video beauty.

I'll continue my reviews of the 3910 as the weeks progress.

So far so good. The SXRD has looked fabulous with HD material. Pretty good with SD material.

I'm just getting to play with my 3910 but the few movies I've seen so far have looked good.
Got off to a bad start with the HDMI try today as posted above. I'm watching "March Of The Penguins" with HDMI set at 720p on the SXRD right now but this movie is no video beauty.

I'll continue my reviews of the 3910 as the weeks progress.

You should try out 1080i from the 3910 to the SXRD; while I found 720p to look great, subjectively, I felt that 1080i was better. also, a calibrator that has much experience with the Qualia 006 and I believe has also done some of the GW SXRD sets, recommended 1080i from the 3910 as well.

Of course, in the end if you feel 720p looks better to you, stick with it :)

You should try out 1080i from the 3910 to the SXRD; while I found 720p to look great, subjectively, I felt that 1080i was better. also, a calibrator that has much experience with the Qualia 006 and I believe has also done some of the GW SXRD sets, recommended 1080i from the 3910 as well.

Of course, in the end if you feel 720p looks better to you, stick with it :)


Oh I still have to experiment with the player.

btw...the replacement disc of "Into The Blue" came from Netflix and it worked in my player.

The other disc must have had something wrong with it.

I would like to just get something clear about the 3910 using the Denon Link.

If I use Denon Link, I don't need to add a coaxial cable from the 3910 to my 3806 like I have with previous dvd players?

The Denon Link will do both audio and video?

The Denon link will only do audio
HDMI will do booth Video & Audio

Has anybody found that the quality of the component out a bit lacking.
- First it can only do 480i or 480p. The higher resolution 720p or 1080i cannot be output on the component out.
- Second its output looks for fuzzy (out of focus) than compared to DVI at the same resolution.

My TV has only 1 DVI in so I am trying to figure out which of my Cable box or DVD should get the DVI connection.

The Denon link will only do audio
HDMI will do booth Video & Audio


Ok thanks. I'll use the Denon Link for audio and try HDMI or coax for video.

Has anybody found that the quality of the component out a bit lacking.
- First it can only do 480i or 480p. The higher resolution 720p or 1080i cannot be output on the component out.
- Second its output looks for fuzzy (out of focus) than compared to DVI at the same resolution.

My TV has only 1 DVI in so I am trying to figure out which of my Cable box or DVD should get the DVI connection.

The component outputs look great. They have been measured to have linear frequency response, and all the other great characteristics of the HDMI/DVI outputs. If you are seeing something unsatisfactory, it could be that your TVs 480p component video signal path is less than optimal.

Use whichever output connection looks best on your display. The 3910 is not at fault.

Has anybody found that the quality of the component out a bit lacking.
- First it can only do 480i or 480p. The higher resolution 720p or 1080i cannot be output on the component out.
- Second its output looks for fuzzy (out of focus) than compared to DVI at the same resolution.

My TV has only 1 DVI in so I am trying to figure out which of my Cable box or DVD should get the DVI connection.
My experience is that the component output of the 3910 is excellent. The DVI/HDMI is better though. Blacks are better, especially, and that improves color and three-dimensionality. I upscale and output 720p. With only one DVI (or HDMI), I'd use that for the 3910 and component for cable. If you have hi-def cable, a true hi-def source will look better on component than the same material looks on the upconverted DVD.

My experience is that the component output of the 3910 is excellent. The DVI/HDMI is better though. Blacks are better, especially, and that improves color and three-dimensionality. I upscale and output 720p. With only one DVI (or HDMI), I'd use that for the 3910 and component for cable. If you have hi-def cable, a true hi-def source will look better on component than the same material looks on the upconverted DVD.

This matches the advice of what my ISF calibrator said after trying it both ways. The HD picture of my Comcast (Motorola) 6412 DVR looks great using component -as does the 3910 using DVI @ 720p on my Sony 70XBR lcd rear projection.

This matches the advice of what my ISF calibrator said after trying it both ways. The HD picture of my Comcast (Motorola) 6412 DVR looks great using component -as does the 3910 using DVI @ 720p on my Sony 70XBR lcd rear projection.
Of course hi-def cable will look better over DVI/HDMI than component (for all the same reasons) so, if my receiver or pre/pro didn't switch digital video, I'd get an external switcher. Hmmm, come to think of it, I did . . .

Of course hi-def cable will look better over DVI/HDMI than component (for all the same reasons) so, if my receiver or pre/pro didn't switch digital video, I'd get an external switcher. Hmmm, come to think of it, I did . . .

Not on my TV - component and DVI were so close that it was a wash. Counterintuitive I know, but that's what he found.

I agree with pepar and JBaumgart re DVI/HDMI giving better blacks and color than component, and that component from the Motorola 6412 looks great.

I found that component out from my 3910 to my Panasonic 50PX50 plasma was significantly worse than the 3910 HDMI out (to my Panny HDMI input). Also, I found that the 3910 480p out (via HDMI) gave the best picture on my plasma, i.e. 1080i output gave a teeny bit of ringing on my plasma. The 480p was absolutely perfect.

--Ernie

PS: Don't forget the Tournament of Roses parade this morning in HD on ABC. :)

PS: Don't forget the Tournament of Roses parade this morning in HD on ABC. :)
As a PSU fan, I don't have a horse in that race. And I really can't decide who I dislike less between USC and Texas. Hmmm, as I used the "no horse in that race" metaphor, I guess I'll be rootin' for Texas.

I agree with pepar and JBaumgart re DVI/HDMI giving better blacks and color than component, and that component from the Motorola 6412 looks great.
...


I was not complaining about the DVI output on my 3910 which looks very good on my Sony rptv.

Does anybody know why Denon does not do upscaling on their component out ?

I've got a few issues with my player that have just occured recently. My player has worked fine for about 6 monthes, now it freezes and locks up with nearly every movie. I just purchased Dark Water and it wouldn't even load with multiple tries.

With other movies it will, at random points, start to skip, or what sounds like skipping while it searches for a good point to continue. SOmetimes it will make it thru this event, other times it won't and then saying "Disk Error".

I've tried to restarting and reinitializing with no success. The thing is, certain movies will be ok and others just won't play at all. Is there a firmware upgrade for to help this? Or do I need to have this unit shipped out and repaired.

Model Info:

ESS 6609-A
Make Day 302
DRV 030825
SYS6767-4
DSP 6770
CNE 20040609

If you might know what is happening I can give you exact specifics, like what the display does and other details. Thanks for any and all help.

Kevin

I've got a few issues with my player that have just occured recently. My player has worked fine for about 6 monthes, now it freezes and locks up with nearly every movie. I just purchased Dark Water and it wouldn't even load with multiple tries.

With other movies it will, at random points, start to skip, or what sounds like skipping while it searches for a good point to continue. SOmetimes it will make it thru this event, other times it won't and then saying "Disk Error".

I've tried to restarting and reinitializing with no success. The thing is, certain movies will be ok and others just won't play at all. Is there a firmware upgrade for to help this? Or do I need to have this unit shipped out and repaired.

Model Info:

ESS 6609-A
Make Day 302
DRV 030825
SYS6767-4
DSP 6770
CNE 20040609

If you might know what is happening I can give you exact specifics, like what the display does and other details. Thanks for any and all help.

Kevin
Something that has worked for others whose units have become "confused" is to follow the procedure to flash the firmware and re-ininitialize it. As a first measure, you could just do the re-initializing.

Something that has worked for others whose units have become "confused" is to follow the procedure to flash the firmware and re-ininitialize it. As a first measure, you could just do the re-initializing.

Thanks for the prompt reply. I did try reinitializing with no success. Would you happen to have a link to the download page at denon for firmware upgrades? I looked all over the site and could not find to save my life. Thanks.

Kevin

Thanks for the prompt reply. I did try reinitializing with no success. Would you happen to have a link to the download page at denon for firmware upgrades? I looked all over the site and could not find to save my life. Thanks.

Kevin

If you go the Denon website under Owners->Product Updates (or go here: http://usa.denon.com/ProductUpdates.asp). You will need to enter your serial number.

Which setting in the Picture Mode does everyone use? STD/M1/M2/M3/M4/M5?

Also which setting is best in the Progressive Mode? AUTO1/AUTO2/VIDEO1/VIDEO2/ or VIDEO3?

The "STD/M1/M2/M3/M4/M5" settings are all the same until you make any changes and memorize them. I just have one setting that I use which is then "M1" and I only have the color up be +2, because I thought they looked a tad dull on DVI(which I use).

Auto 1 for R1(NTSC) DVD´s and Auto 2for R2(PAL) DVD´s.

Thanks keyser!

btw....here's an interesting problem that I have with the 3910 and my SXRD.

Last night I tried the DVD "Revenge Of The Sith" for the first time with this combo.

I came away disappointed on how the film looked. It appeared a bit hazy at times especially any scene where humans interact. The CGI heavy scenes looked better.

I was hoping for real eye-popping quality considering the type of film it is.

I must be doing something wrong with the 3910 because when the movie gets to the credits....you know when the film shows black space with the credits...I was seeing what looked like "green" clouds moving across my 50" screen! This was apparent in 1080i mode or 720p mode.

When I change the 3910 to 480p mode the "green" clouds went away but still the credits didn't look that great.

Anybody else have the same set-up (3910 and an SXRD) can comment on how this chapter looks to them at either 720p or 1080i?

Is the HDMI cable causing this problem and maybe I should switch to component out from the 3910 to the SXRD?

Many have reported better PQ with HDMI than component. Have you changed black level to 0 IRE from 7.5 (and then watched in M1 with this setting)? Have you calibrated the SXRD with a calibration DVD (AVIA)?

Many have reported better PQ with HDMI than component. Have you changed black level to 0 IRE from 7.5 (and then watched in M1 with this setting)? Have you calibrated the SXRD with a calibration DVD (AVIA)?


How do you set that black level? In the 3910's set-up menu it has two settings for black level...enhanced and normal. Should I always use enhanced?

btw... I haven't calibrated with a AVIA disc yet. I'm using the settings that were used at CEDIA 2005 on the Qualia 006 that were published here on this thread. I will get this set pro calibrated very soon but even without the pro calibration I was expecting more from the Star Wars DVD.

VIDEOKNG,

I have a 3910 connected to my 60" SXRD via a Denon 4306 receiver. The 3910 is set to output 1080i which, of course the 4306 does not modify. HDMI all the way.

My SXRD is set up with the values most often listed in the 50"/60" SXRD Tweaks thread in this forum, not the Qualia values. I'm using M1 of the 3910 and the only thing changed there from the default is 0 IRE.

The picture quality I get when watching SWIII is excellent.

Paul.

VIDEOKNG,

I also have the 3910 and 60" SXRD, and SWIII looked spectacular on my set. I'm using HDMI and upconverting to 1080i.

I've left all the video settings on the 3910 at their defaults, and focused on tweaking the settings on my SXRD. Recommend using the THX optimizer that's on the SWIII DVD to help you adjust the settings on your SXRD.

For what they're worth, here are the SXRD settings I'm using with for my DVD input (the settings for my DVR input are different):

Pro
Iris 2
Picture 48
Brightness 18 (much lower than my brightness setting for the DVR)
Color 28
Hue 0
Sharpness 15
Color Temp Warm
Noise Reduction off
Direct Mode off
DRC Mode Cinemotion
DRC Pallet 1/1
Advanced Iris low/medium
other enhancements off
R Gain -12
G Gain -6
B Gain 0
R Bias 3
G Bias -3
B Bias -3

The bottom line: If SWIII doesn't look fabulous with your SXRD and 3910, something's wrong somewhere.

thanks guys, thats what I need to figure out.

I need to tweak further obviously.

I don't want to bring in a pro till I receive my new speakers and then finally connect my new 3806 to everything. That should be real soon according to **********.

But I am a little surprised that SWIII looked so poor and so obviously poor during the credits.

Many have reported better PQ with HDMI than component. Have you changed black level to 0 IRE from 7.5 (and then watched in M1 with this setting)? Have you calibrated the SXRD with a calibration DVD (AVIA)?

Finally found out where the black level 0 IRE/ 7.5 IRE area is on the 3910 set-up.

Its in the PICTURE ADJUST area of the remote. A screen comes up that says PICTURE MODE/ STD. M1. M2. M3. M4. M5. SET.

I clicked on SET and found the black level area. It was set for 7.5, so I have switched it to 0 which seems to darken the screen. I assume I leave the other settings alone.

Now how do you set this to M1? Just click on M1? and the setting stays there?

Finally found out where the black level 0 IRE/ 7.5 IRE area is on the 3910 set-up.

Its in the PICTURE ADJUST area of the remote. A screen comes up that says PICTURE MODE/ STD. M1. M2. M3. M4. M5. SET.

I clicked on SET and found the black level area. It was set for 7.5, so I have switched it to 0 which seems to darken the screen. I assume I leave the other settings alone.

Now how do you set this to M1? Just click on M1? and the setting stays there?
If you're in the US, it should be set to 7.5 IRE.

VIDEOKNG

Recommend you set brightness (black level) using the THX optimizer on the SWIII DVD. Even if you play around with black level in the DVD player (by setting IRE to 0), you're still going to need to tweek the brightness setting in your SXRD to optimize black level. Recommend you just leave the DVD player settings at the default, and use the THX optimizer to set your black level using the SXRD's brightness setting. As I noted above, for me, that yielded a brightness setting of 18 on my SXRD.

How do you set that black level? In the 3910's set-up menu it has two settings for black level...enhanced and normal. Should I always use enhanced?
No, it should be normal, not enhanced.

If you're in the US, it should be set to 7.5 IRE.
Are you sure? I thought Kris Deering said it should be Normal and 0 IRE, which is how I have it with my DLP, and it looks great (post-AVIA) and passes BTB.

No, it should be normal, not enhanced.


ok, thanks.

Are you sure? I thought Kris Deering said it should be Normal and 0 IRE, which is how I have it with my DLP, and it looks great (post-AVIA) and passes BTB.

7.5 IRE is the correct setting for N.America NTSC programming.

http://www.signvideo.com/dv-black-level-dvd-7.5-ire-0-ntsc-part-2.htm

Also, here's a quote from the Secret's website:

For SD sources in the US, black is at 7.5 IRE. (Also called Setup or Pedestal) For the rest of the world, it is at 0 IRE. For ED and HD, black is at 0 IRE.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_10_1/dvd-benchmark-guide-to-progressive-scan-shootout-1-2003.html

Are you sure? I thought Kris Deering said it should be Normal and 0 IRE, which is how I have it with my DLP, and it looks great (post-AVIA) and passes BTB.
I'm positive. Normal - in the US - is 7.5. Enhanced is the PC standard of 0 IRE. Google "enhanced IRE" with the quotes . . .

Are you sure? I thought Kris Deering said it should be Normal and 0 IRE, which is how I have it with my DLP, and it looks great (post-AVIA) and passes BTB.

yup...that;s what I have it at. normal blacks, o IRE.

sorry pepar :D

Hi guys!

Are you aware of any problems with regards to the 3910's HDMI output?

I used to connect my Hitachi PJ TX 200 projector via HDMI and it was working perfectly up to now.

Suddenly the following message appears whenever I fire it up: Out of sync on HDMI.

Is it possible that something's wrong with Denon's HDMI port?

My local Hitachi repair centre representative (Athens, Greece) mentioned a possible incompatibility between Denon And Hitachi projectors...

7.5 IRE is the correct setting for N.America NTSC programming.

http://www.signvideo.com/dv-black-level-dvd-7.5-ire-0-ntsc-part-2.htm

Also, here's a quote from the Secret's website:



http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_10_1/dvd-benchmark-guide-to-progressive-scan-shootout-1-2003.html
I'm still confused since the Sign Video link referred to analog inputs in the US, while I'm using a digital input (DVI). I know Normal is correct (not Enhanced), but am still not sure about IRE. I just sent a PM to Kris, and I'll post his response (unless he posts it here himself).

Yes, this is very confusing. I thought "Normal" is 7.5 IRE. And vice versa. With only one setting, how would one select Normal AND 0 IRE?

The 3910 has 2 separate settings you can make independently, one for Normal versus Enhanced black level, and a second for 0 versus 7.5 IRE.

Here is Kris' response to my PM in which I asked him what to set IRE to, 0 or 7.5, when hooking up the 3910 to a 720p DLP via DVI: "0 for DVD playback, always."

I used AVIA to calibrate with these settings (Normal; 0 IRE), and the 3910 looks incredible, and passes BTB (on the THX Optimizer), so I'm just going to leave it as is.

The 3910 has 2 separate settings you can make independently, one for Normal versus Enhanced black level, and a second for 0 versus 7.5 IRE.
My bad. I've never been into that setting and didn't know it existed until now. But my question/confusion remains. Isn't a N American display expecting a signal based on 7.5 IRE?

Although I may be wrong about this, my understanding is that regardless of whether you set the DVD output to 0 or 7.5 IRE, if you then properly adjust the TV's brightness (black level) setting with a pluge or similar pattern, you pretty much end up at the same place.

Anyone know if this is correct or not?

Although I may be wrong about this, my understanding is that regardless of whether you set the DVD output to 0 or 7.5 IRE, if you then properly adjust the TV's brightness (black level) setting with a pluge or similar pattern, you pretty much end up at the same place.

Anyone know if this is correct or not?
That's my understanding as well; you can make any combination work and achieve the same results. But if that's the case, why did Kris prefer Normal/0 IRE?

Here is Kris' response to my PM in which I asked him what to set IRE to, 0 or 7.5, when hooking up the 3910 to a 720p DLP via DVI: "0 for DVD playback, always."

I used AVIA to calibrate with these settings (Normal; 0 IRE), and the 3910 looks incredible, and passes BTB (on the THX Optimizer), so I'm just going to leave it as is.


there it is.... :D

like I've been saying for over a year now.....Normal Blacks, 0 IRE when using HDMI/DVI :)

Sorry, but I don't know the details (and I posted Kris' entire response), but I knew I remembered him saying Normal and 0 IRE when I asked him about it summer, '04 (when I bought my 3910) . Maybe it has to do with analog versus digital connection (the Sign Video article only talked about analog inputs in the US for 7.5 IRE, not digital inputs).

Sorry, but I don't know the details (and I posted Kris' entire response), but I knew I remembered him saying Normal and 0 IRE when I asked him about it summer, '04 (when I bought my 3910) . Maybe it has to do with analog versus digital connection (the Sign Video article only talked about analog inputs in the US for 7.5 IRE, not digital inputs).
FWIW, changing the IRE setting on my 2910 affected the black level displayed on my TV that is connected via component.

Although I may be wrong about this, my understanding is that regardless of whether you set the DVD output to 0 or 7.5 IRE, if you then properly adjust the TV's brightness (black level) setting with a pluge or similar pattern, you pretty much end up at the same place.

Anyone know if this is correct or not?

This would only work if the DVD player passes a "blacker-than-black" signal.
Black=7.5 IRE
Blacker-than-black=0 IRE

Interesting discussion on black level (hope I didn't open a can of worms:D).

I also think my 3910 looks better with 0 IRE and normal setting.

Interesting discussion on black level (hope I didn't open a can of worms:D).

I also think my 3910 looks better with 0 IRE and normal setting.
Just make sure to calibrate with AVIA or DVE, and then be prepared to say WOW.

Just make sure to calibrate with AVIA or DVE, and then be prepared to say WOW.

yeah, I have to dig around and look for my cali disc. But I will get a pro calibration once my new speakers come in and my service call for my SXRD is completed.

I want this system to be the best in Massapeuqa Park!:D

Anyone know if Denon is going to have a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player this year? The player and movies are to be showing up in February/March.

http://www.i4u.com/article4841.html

Anyone know if Denon is going to have a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player this year? The player and movies are to be showing up in February/March.

http://www.i4u.com/article4841.html

Keep your eye hear for updates http://www.audioholics.com/ces/

Also the Ultra High End forum is a good place for updates.

I might be wrong but I thought the normal or enhanced settings was for deciding if the player was going to output studio or pc rgb levels?

From the 3910 review:

"The video output can be selected in the setup menu for either PC RGB levels or Studio RGB levels. Unless your display is set up for PC RGB levels, we always recommend using the studio RGB output which allows for below-black and above-white information. Like the DVD-5900, this selection is called black level enhancement. With the enhancement setting “ON”, you are using PC levels. With it “OFF”, you are using Studio levels. There is also an IRE setting for 7.5 or 0 in the picture setting menu for the analog outputs."

Carbo, you are correct. One should use Normal for Studio and Enhanced for PC (thus, Normal under most circumstances). But that is independent of IRE (which it looks like might be for analog output, which most of us do not use with the 3910). I'm sticking with Kris' recommendations: Normal and 0 IRE.

Why are "7.5 IRE" and "Normal" the default settings if they are not the, umm . . default settings?

I have just gotten mine back from the service factory to fix the no blacker-than-black problem. I also had complained about my DVI output being slightly green. Anyways, it's back with blacker-than-black and no green tinge on DVI.

However, the DVI blacks are washed out. I run my SDI-modded 3910 into an iscan HD+. After setting the display to the brightness test pattern built into the iscan, the SDI and component outputs (set to 7.5 IRE) are accurate. On the normal setting the DVI's black is far too light. On enhanced, it's almost accurate, but still a touch too light. It doesn't make sense that enhanced would match up to 7.5 IRE analog outputs.

On the flipside, big kudos to Denon. I had purchased a modded 3910 from an unauthorized vendor, JVB digital. And they still fixed the problem. The firmware they loaded made it lose all-region status. But that should be an easy fix.

edit: I forgot to mention that I don't believe this DVI black level problem was there before I sent it in.

Why is HDMI Y Cb Cr said to be better than HDMI RGB?
I am using HDMI Y Cb Cr on the 3910 and it looks different to the RGB but not sure what the technical differences are? Should I keep it on this setting?

videokng:

What has gone wrong with your Sony SXRD... I know that it is not a 3910 question... just curious...

Don

Can anyone talk me out of sellin my 3910 . I am wanting to add an amp to my denon 3805 But I have no space left in my rack. IF I sell my 3910 & get a Samsung DVD-HD850 I can still do SACD DVDa Upconvert , But I will lose the Denon link and the better D/A in the 3910 BUT
I like the sound of the 3805 with the room EQ so I do not use the D/As in the 3910 & think an amp to my 3805 with paradigm 40's would sound better .
The only real concern is picture quality I do want the best possible image on screen.

Sorry the samsung DVD-HD950 will do SACD & DVDa not the DVD-HD850 and it is Slim alowing me room for a nice amp

DON'T DO IT!!!! Seriously, PQ will suffer (assuming you are not getting MB with the 3910). There is no comparison between the Faroudja chip and the Zoran. Plus, you will need to use the Samsung audio DACs for high res audio, which are obviously not as good as the Denon DACs.

Will that is my one concern PQ. I have about 500 CDs 10 of them are SACD or DVDa so I am not to conceened with the D/As and I use my room EQ for most listning .
I am a bit slow today what do you meen getting MB from my 3910

Can anyone talk me out of sellin my 3910 .
Nah, it's a fat slug and, as a favor to a fellow forum member, I'll dispose of it for you.

:)

Will that is my one concern PQ. I have about 500 CDs 10 of them are SACD or DVDa so I am not to conceened with the D/As and I use my room EQ for most listning .
I am a bit slow today what do you meen getting MB from my 3910
All the Faroujda players can show macroblocking errors with certain displays (although the 3910 shows less MB than other Faroudja players). I do not see any MB with my 3910 and DLP. I assume you like the PQ of your 3910, which means you also must not be seeing MB, in which case I would keep the 3910 (it is a far better player than the Samsung).

I bet Denon will have a BIG SURPRIZE for us @ C.E.S. ;) 30

I bet Denon will have a BIG SURPRIZE for us @ C.E.S. ;) 30

Nope, just a DVD-5910ci with really good 1080p up scaling. :( For $3800 in 2006 I want HD-DVD or Blu-Ray or both. I wonder if they are just planning to wait to see who wins the format war.

I have tried several SAMSUNG DVD players and was not happy with them.... they all seem to have problems with BTB..... the 3910 blows them away....... both with PQ and audio quality...
A new stand that can fit every thing in would be a better way to go...

Don

Hi All,

Newbie here. I just bought a Sony Qualia 006 (1080i inputs). I am in the market to purchase a Denon DVD-5910. I just saw the CES news about the DVD-5910ci being able to upscale to 1080P. Does anyone know if it will also upscale to 1080i so I could use it with the Qualia and have the future capability of 1080P if I decide to use it with a different TV in the future that supports 1080P inputs.

Thanks,

Paul

I'm a bit confused about DVD-Audio disc playback on my 3910-3806 combination. I have my 3910 connected to my 3806 using HDMI and coax digital for audio. I have several DVD-Audio discs that claim to have 3 audio formats; usually a regular stereo CD mix, a dolby digital 5.1 mix (playable on DVD-video players) and a "hi-res" surround mix (96/24 perhaps) that is playable only on DVD-audio players. By default, when I play one of these discs on my 3910, I'm getting the dolby digital 5.1 mix which will play on any DVD-video player; I don't seem to be able to access the hi-res surround mixes that are exclusive to a DVD-Audio player. One particular example is the Elton John Goodbye Yellow Brick Road DVD-audio disc. Upon insertion, a menu screen comes up displaying a track list and the heading "Dolby Surround." There are no options on this menu for other mixes; only the ability to select different tracks. Yet, the box says there are several choices for different audio formats on the disc. When listening, the sound is fine, with the default surround mode being Dolby Digital on the 3806. With my Dire Straits' Brothers in Arms DVD-audio disc, the menu displays a Dolby Digital choice, and a 48/24 PCM choice; the latter plays (at least the time counter on the 3910 advances) but no audio is heard. The Dolby Digital choice plays and sounds fine, but the disc box mentions another high res surround mix that I'm not seeing. Must I use the 6 cable analog connection for the mixes to activate? I assume that if the digital coax carries 5.1 audio, it should work for these discs, as well. I have no problem with any DVD movie discs; picture and audio are fine. The 3806 manual lists "Multi Channel In" as a surround mode choice for DVD-Audio discs, but I can't find this setting on the unit anywhere, whether the default surround setting is on or not. Am I missing something here, or am I getting all the choices that are available? Thanks for any input anyone can provide.

videokng:

What has gone wrong with your Sony SXRD... I know that it is not a 3910 question... just curious...

Don


Nothing wrong with my SXRD. I just need to find the perfect settings that make the 3910 and the SXRD work well together. I wasn't blown away by a recent playing of the Star Wars III DVD...thought it should have looked better. I'm gonna need a ISF calibration to get everything right.

Hey Mike, No worries mate. Just hook up the 3910/3806 audio with Denon Link and enjoy DVD-A. ;) You cant pass MLP DVD-A stream with HDMI or digital coax.

JohnG, SW III doesn't look all that great even after ISF calibration. It was a huge let down with both audio and video (IMO).

Hey Mike, No worries mate. Just hook up the 3910/3806 audio with Denon Link and enjoy DVD-A. ;) You cant pass MLP DVD-A stream with HDMI or digital coax.

JohnG, SW III doesn't look all that great even after ISF calibration. It was a huge let down with both audio and video (IMO).
I don't think that's what he's asking, Tom. He needs to go into setup|etc and change player mode to "audio" and then he will be able to access the hi-res audio tracks.

I don't think that's what he's asking, Tom. He needs to go into setup|etc and change player mode to "audio" and then he will be able to access the hi-res audio tracks.

If I am not mistaken, you can't access the hi-res audio tracks with digital coax (or Toslink/optical). You need to use either Denon Link or 6 analog cables.

Thanks, guys; it seems like I needed both suggestions to make it work (switched to Denon Link and also changed the player mode to audio). New choices now appear in the disc menus that I haven't seen before; DVD audio is playing fine, and sounding great. I thought that I would have to switch the player mode back to video and change other settings to watch a movie, but these settings work with DVD video discs too; automatic switching back to dolby digital, etc. I guess I thought that the video/audio player mode settings were to allow the menus to appear onscreen for DVD audio discs; anyway, I've had the 3910/3806 combo for a couple of months now but haven't tried DVD audio discs until recently. They sound great; especially the Mark Knopler/Dire Straits discs I have. Thanks again for helping me to decipher more cryptic instructions in the Denon manuals.

If I am not mistaken, you can't access the hi-res audio tracks with digital coax (or Toslink/optical). You need to use either Denon Link or 6 analog cables.
I was defining access in the strictest sense of the word - being able to see and select them. Outputting - and hearing - them is slightly separate. You're right; Denon Link, Firewire or the analog outs need to be used for that. I *think* the player will read the hi-res tracks even if the proper connection does not exist. But reading those tracks requires the setting change I mentioned.

Thanks, guys; it seems like I needed both suggestions to make it work (switched to Denon Link and also changed the player mode to audio). New choices now appear in the disc menus that I haven't seen before; DVD audio is playing fine, and sounding great. I thought that I would have to switch the player mode back to video and change other settings to watch a movie, but these settings work with DVD video discs too; automatic switching back to dolby digital, etc. I guess I thought that the video/audio player mode settings were to allow the menus to appear onscreen for DVD audio discs; anyway, I've had the 3910/3806 combo for a couple of months now but haven't tried DVD audio discs until recently. They sound great; especially the Mark Knopler/Dire Straits discs I have. Thanks again for helping me to decipher more cryptic instructions in the Denon manuals.
It seems quirky, but that's how it works. Setting it to "audio" is where I keep mine all the time. I'd imagine everyone else does as well. Load a disc without DVD-A files and it "defaults" to video. So, in effect, one setting fits all. You're right, though, it's cryptic at best. Go figure. No matter, you've discovered the most valuable resource for home theater matters - THIS FORUM!

Carbo, you are correct. One should use Normal for Studio and Enhanced for PC (thus, Normal under most circumstances). But that is independent of IRE (which it looks like might be for analog output, which most of us do not use with the 3910). I'm sticking with Kris' recommendations: Normal and 0 IRE.

Hi BillP,

Are you saying that the IRE 0 or 7.5 are not avalilable if you use DVI? I've looked through the menus and I can't find this IRE setting anywhere, I'm using DVI so that may be why. I've been using Enhanced on the 3910 and it has worked OK but I guess it's a matter of suggestion or should I say aclamation after a while. I just got done switching it back to Normal after being set to Enhanced. I've had the 3910 set to Enhanced for quite some time and after reading the past few posts I've decided to switch it back and now that it's switched to Normal it initially looked a bit washed out. This maybe due to your eyes get used to this setting level. but I guess given some time as long as your brightness level is correct with the THX BTB shadow your eyes should adjust. I find it tougher to adjust sharpness more that anything else, it's just harder see the change in the display.

SC

I find it tougher to adjust sharpness more that anything else, it's just harder see the change in the display.
It's simple; set it as low as it goes.

Hi BillP,

Are you saying that the IRE 0 or 7.5 are not avalilable if you use DVI? I've looked through the menus and I can't find this IRE setting anywhere, I'm using DVI so that may be why. I've been using Enhanced on the 3910 and it has worked OK but I guess it's a matter of suggestion or should I say aclamation after a while. I just got done switching it back to Normal after being set to Enhanced. I've had the 3910 set to Enhanced for quite some time and after reading the past few posts I've decided to switch it back and now that it's switched to Normal it initially looked a bit washed out. This maybe due to your eyes get used to this setting level. but I guess given some time as long as your brightness level is correct with the THX BTB shadow your eyes should adjust. I find it tougher to adjust sharpness more that anything else, it's just harder see the change in the display.

SC IRE is a Picture mode setting ;)

Hi BillP,

Are you saying that the IRE 0 or 7.5 are not avalilable if you use DVI? I've looked through the menus and I can't find this IRE setting anywhere, I'm using DVI so that may be why. I've been using Enhanced on the 3910 and it has worked OK but I guess it's a matter of suggestion or should I say aclamation after a while. I just got done switching it back to Normal after being set to Enhanced. I've had the 3910 set to Enhanced for quite some time and after reading the past few posts I've decided to switch it back and now that it's switched to Normal it initially looked a bit washed out. This maybe due to your eyes get used to this setting level. but I guess given some time as long as your brightness level is correct with the THX BTB shadow your eyes should adjust. I find it tougher to adjust sharpness more that anything else, it's just harder see the change in the display.

SC
I'm using DVI and still have the IRE setting (I set it to 0). The user manual tells where to find it. Switching between 0 and 7.5 IRE, as well as between Normal and Enhanced, definitely changes PQ. In the US, one should set them at 0 and Normal, and make sure to use AVIA or DVE to adjust your display with the 0 and Normal 3910 settings in place. IMO, after calibrating with AVIA, the 3910 gives the best PQ I have ever seen on my fixed pixel display. If it looks washed out, it's because you need to recalibrate your display after changing the settings. THX has been reported to be a little off, so it might be worthwhile getting one of the others (AVIA is also available at Netflix).

BillP,

What's your basis for saying that "In the US, one should set [the IRE] at 0?" My understanding is that the standard for North America is 7.5 IRE. It's also my understanding that with most displays, it really doesn't make much difference whether you set IRE at 0 or 7.5, so long as you then properly adjust your display's brightness (black level) and contrast (white level) settings.

For what it's worth, I found this discussion quite helpful.

http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/378652/an/0/page/0

My basis is what Kris Deering says to set it at (see p. 180 of this thread). Professional reviews talking about 7.5 being the NA standard seem to be talking about analog inputs (I have my 3910 hooked digitally via DVI, so maybe that makes a difference). All I know is Kris states to set it at 0 IRE and Normal, and it looks great that way (and passes BTB), so that's good enough for me.

BillP,

Thanks for the response. By way of comparison, I have my 3910 outputting via HDMI and set to the default IRE of 7.5. My 3910 also passes BTB in this configuration. After adjusting my display using DVE, my picture looks great too.

So I guess we're both happy.

As you originally said, it may not matter as long as you calibrate your display after finalizing your 3910 settings.

Watched "The Cave" tonight on the 3910 with HDMI to my SXRD and black levels set to normal and 0 IRE.

I thought the picture was much improved for me compared to 7.5 IRE.

Watched "The Cave" tonight on the 3910 with HDMI to my SXRD and black levels set to normal and 0 IRE.

I thought the picture was much improved for me compared to 7.5 IRE.

You need to get some quality movies to watch on that great TV of yours. Stop wasting it on drivel. :D

VIDEOKNG,

Did you recalibrate your TV's setting at both 0 and 7.5 IRE? If so, then in what way would you say your PQ was better at 0 than 7.5?

I'm not doubting you or trying to argue with you. It's just that I've currently got my 3910 set to 7.5 IRE, and after calibrating my TV with DVE, am quite pleased with the result. So, what I'm trying to find out is whether it's worth my time to reset the 3910 to 0 IRE and go thru the process of recalibrating my TV one more time.

VIDEOKNG,

Did you recalibrate your TV's setting at both 0 and 7.5 IRE? If so, then in what way would you say your PQ was better at 0 than 7.5?

I'm not doubting you or trying to argue with you. It's just that I've currently got my 3910 set to 7.5 IRE, and after calibrating my TV with DVE, am quite pleased with the result. So, what I'm trying to find out is whether it's worth my time to reset the 3910 to 0 IRE and go thru the process of recalibrating my TV one more time.

If you read further on these pages, you will find out that its exactly the same, as long as you have been able to sucessfully re calibrate after making any changes in the IRE settings.

Murray1080,

That's been my understanding as well, as you can see from my posts above. But some folks are reporting that 0 IRE is preferable for some reason, and I'm interested in finding out if this is so and why.

Probably the simplest thing for me to do at this point is just try both settings, with my TV recalibrated for both settings, and see if I see any difference.

Murray1080,

That's been my understanding as well, as you can see from my posts above. But some folks are reporting that 0 IRE is preferable for some reason, and I'm interested in finding out if this is so and why.

Probably the simplest thing for me to do at this point is just try both settings, with my TV recalibrated for both settings, and see if I see any difference.

7.5 is for PC, O and Normal is for everything else

My picture looks washed out and not very black at 7.5. At 0 IRE the picture is more detailed and black looks black.

One thing is for sure...I'm spoiled wacthing HD tv on my SXRD.

DVD's just don't look good anymore compared to HD.

I really need a PS3! :D

My picture looks washed out and not very black at 7.5. At 0 IRE the picture is more detailed and black looks black.

One thing is for sure...I'm spoiled wacthing HD tv on my SXRD.

DVD's just don't look good anymore compared to HD.

I really need a PS3! :D
It would need to be set to 7.5 IRE and CALIBRATED. It's not apples and apples if you don't calibrate. And, fwiw, HDNet runs a test pattern Tuesday early AM - 6:30 - 7:00, I think, so you can do a setting for cable. I'm pretty sure cable is a "7.5 IRE source."

JohnG, SW III doesn't look all that great even after ISF calibration. It was a huge let down with both audio and video (IMO).


I'll have to re-visit this DVD once I get my new speakers but on first glance...yes it was a disappointment to me visually...but I'm working on it. Resetting the IRE levels seems to help.

Well, after spending much time and pissing off my wife calibrating my set and player for the 1000'th time I can honestly say that the IRE 0 and 7.5 look pretty much the same, or it's so close that you would need two identical sets side by side to tell the difference. I pretty much left it at IRE 0 and left the black level to Normal and the picture quality looks very good.

I can also tell you that you can greatly improve the picture quality by adjusting the enhancer setting in the picture quality menu. Most of you know about these two controls, but for those of you that don't you owe it to yourself to play with these two controls. These two settings for me, have made some of biggest picture quality changes on my player. These settings adjust the vertical and horizontal contour of the image, it is quite astounding the improvement you can make with these two controls. It truly looks magnificent. It really looks almost as good as my HD picture. Well..., almost. :p

The best way I found to get a good view of the effect of the H and V enhancer settings is to use a good quality, bright DVD film like Spiderman, Dennis the Menace, MIB II, etc. (non Superbit as they are already high resolution). Go to an area in the movie with a closeup of someone's face with little or no camera panning. Pause the image and adjust the H and V henhancer settings and watch the definition of the image. It will literally come to life. I have the V set to +3 and the H to +6. :D

SC

I can also tell you that you can greatly improve the picture quality by adjusting the enhancer setting in the picture quality menu. Most of you know about these two controls, but for those of you that don't you owe it to yourself to play with these two controls. These two settings for me, have made some of biggest picture quality changes on my player. These settings adjust the vertical and horizontal contour of the image, it is quite astounding the improvement you can make with these two controls. It truly looks magnificent. It really looks almost as good as my HD picture. Well..., almost. :p

The best way I found to get a good view of the effect of the H and V enhancer settings is to use a good quality, bright DVD film like Spiderman, Dennis the Menace, MIB II, etc. (non Superbit as they are already high resolution). Go to an area in the movie with a closeup of someone's face with little or no camera panning. Pause the image and adjust the H and V henhancer settings and watch the definition of the image. It will literally come to life. I have the V set to +3 and the H to +6. :D

SC
Exactly what is being "enhanced?" And how?

Well, after spending much time and pissing off my wife calibrating my set and player for the 1000'th time I can honestly say that the IRE 0 and 7.5 look pretty much the same, or it's so close that you would need two identical sets side by side to tell the difference. I pretty much left it at IRE 0 and left the black level to Normal and the picture quality looks very good.

I can also tell you that you can greatly improve the picture quality by adjusting the enhancer setting in the picture quality menu. Most of you know about these two controls, but for those of you that don't you owe it to yourself to play with these two controls. These two settings for me, have made some of biggest picture quality changes on my player. These settings adjust the vertical and horizontal contour of the image, it is quite astounding the improvement you can make with these two controls. It truly looks magnificent. It really looks almost as good as my HD picture. Well..., almost. :p

The best way I found to get a good view of the effect of the H and V enhancer settings is to use a good quality, bright DVD film like Spiderman, Dennis the Menace, MIB II, etc. (non Superbit as they are already high resolution). Go to an area in the movie with a closeup of someone's face with little or no camera panning. Pause the image and adjust the H and V henhancer settings and watch the definition of the image. It will literally come to life. I have the V set to +3 and the H to +6. :D

SC
Yes true it is an Enhancer but as all enhancers DO, they add artifacts!
Keep them both on "0" the picture maybe a little softer but its far smoother and much less grain on the image. Click back and forth between NORMAL and ENHANCED settings and you will see what I mean.
Im staying on "0" H&V thankyou!

The other settings of 0 IRE and Normal are correct.

Yes true it is an Enhancer but as all enhancers DO, they add artifacts!
Keep them both on "0" the picture maybe a little softer but its far smoother and much less grain on the image. Click back and forth between NORMAL and ENHANCED settings and you will see what I mean.
Im staying on "0" H&V thankyou!.
I'm going to forget I even heard about them. :)

I'm going to forget I even heard about them. :)

Come on, where is your sense of adventure? :rolleyes:

Yes true it is an Enhancer but as all enhancers DO, they add artifacts!
Keep them both on "0" the picture maybe a little softer but its far smoother and much less grain on the image. Click back and forth between NORMAL and ENHANCED settings and you will see what I mean.
Im staying on "0" H&V thankyou!

The other settings of 0 IRE and Normal are correct.


Definition is a matter of perception anyway, it's all personal taste and what looks good to you.

Besides, if it's that bad you can always set it back, all it takes is three pushes of a button on the remote.
OK, five. :rolleyes:

Come on, where is your sense of adventure? :rolleyes:




Definition is a matter of perception anyway, it's all personal taste and what looks good to you.

Besides, if it's that bad you can always set it back, all it takes is three pushes of a button on the remote.
OK, five. :rolleyes:

Yes I suppose it all depends on how bad ones eyes are :eek:
Anyway, been there done that and I know I need a CLEAN image :cool:

Come on, where is your sense of adventure? :rolleyes:
My sense of adventure these days is exercised by discovering new cocktails. :cool:

My sense of adventure these days is exercised by discovering new cocktails. :cool:

Cocktails for me.. humm,, No!
Single malt 12 year old Scotch, Yes... Balvenie, Doublewood..
Now we're coocking with gas.
Ohh... and did I mention a good cigar...

Bring it on... ;)

Cocktails for me.. humm,, No!
Single malt 12 year old Scotch, Yes... Balvenie, Doublewood..
Now we're coocking with gas.
Ohh... and did I mention a good cigar...

Bring it on... ;)
Haven't gotten to Scotch yet; I'm working my way through Bourbon. Hmmm, I should probably try to sip myself back on topic . . .

Watched a thriller called "Cry Wolf" starring sexy Lindy Booth on a Netlix rental DVD tonight and setting the 3910 to 0 IRE has really helped. Movies now look much better on my SXRD.

Don't know why the 3910 isn't set for 0 IRE right out of the box. Crazy that you have to go deep into the picture menu to change the setting to get a decent picture.

Don't know why the 3910 isn't set for 0 IRE right out of the box. Crazy that you have to go deep into the picture menu to change the setting to get a decent picture.
It's not set that way because 7.5 IRE is the correct setting in N America. But I don't have a clue on how to reconcile that with knowledgeable Kris Deering's recommendation to use 0 IRE.

Watched a thriller called "Cry Wolf" starring sexy Lindy Booth on a Netlix rental DVD tonight and setting the 3910 to 0 IRE has really helped. Movies now look much better on my SXRD.

Don't know why the 3910 isn't set for 0 IRE right out of the box. Crazy that you have to go deep into the picture menu to change the setting to get a decent picture.

Once again, did you properly set your TV's black level and white level when the DVD player was set at 7.5 IRE??? If not, then your comparison of 0 vs 7.5 IRE doesn't mean much.

My own experience is that I can't see any difference in PQ between 0 and 7.5 IRE after adjusting my TV's black and white levels at each IRE setting.

My sense is that far more important than which IRE you select is properly adjusting your TV's brightness (black level) and contrast (white level) settings.

Once again, did you properly set your TV's black level and white level when the DVD player was set at 7.5 IRE??? If not, then your comparison of 0 vs 7.5 IRE doesn't mean much.

My own experience is that I can't see any difference in PQ between 0 and 7.5 IRE after adjusting my TV's black and white levels at each IRE setting.

My sense is that far more important than which IRE you select is properly adjusting your TV's brightness (black level) and contrast (white level) settings.

I've been working on this very same issue and I would tend to agree with you. Finalize your setting on the display. :)

With regard to IRE settings, I'm unable to find any definitive answer as to whether 0 or 7.5 is clearly preferable. On the one hand, an AVIA rep (see link in my post 5419) says it doesn't make any difference on most displays so long as you properly calibrate your set for whichever IRE you've selected. On the other hand, we've got Mr. Deering's recommendation to use 0 IRE (despite that 7.5 IRE seems to be the North American standard and is the 3910's default setting). My own experience lines up with the AVIA rep--no apparent difference after calibrating my TV at each IRE.

I have noticed one thing that lends some credence to Mr. Deering's view, however. When I have my 3910 set at IRE 7.5, I need to turn my TV's brightness (black level) setting down much lower than the TV's default setting, and much lower than the setting I'm using with my DVR input. At 0 IRE, the brightness setting is much closer to the default and almost the same as my DVR input. Now, since my TV allows me to have separate settings for each input, this isn't any big deal for me, but it might be important for TV's that don't allow for input-specific settings.

Bottom line for me: I've left my 3910 set at 0 IRE. Can't do any harm, and although I don't see any difference, maybe I'm missing something.

Once again, did you properly set your TV's black level and white level when the DVD player was set at 7.5 IRE??? If not, then your comparison of 0 vs 7.5 IRE doesn't mean much.

.


Your right. I can't rule out 7.5 IRE yet becuase I do need to get the SXRD calibrated but for those who don't have the ability to calibrate their TV's...0 IRE seems to work better with the standard settings on a TV like the SXRD.

I just find it interesting how much better 0 IRE looked.

VIDEOKNG,

As noted in my post above, my experience with my SXRD and 3910 is that with the 3910 set to 0 IRE, the calibrated brightness setting on my SXRD is close to the default (around 28 or 29). But at 7.5 IRE from the 3910, the calibrated brightness setting on my SXRD is much lower (around 18). So, if you've been leaving your SXRD's brightness at or near the default, it doesn't surprise me that your PQ looks a lot better at 0 IRE than 7.5 IRE.

With regard to IRE settings, I'm unable to find any definitive answer as to whether 0 or 7.5 is clearly preferable. On the one hand, an AVIA rep (see link in my post 5419) says it doesn't make any difference on most displays so long as you properly calibrate your set for whichever IRE you've selected. On the other hand, we've got Mr. Deering's recommendation to use 0 IRE (despite that 7.5 IRE seems to be the North American standard and is the 3910's default setting). My own experience lines up with the AVIA rep--no apparent difference after calibrating my TV at each IRE.

I have noticed one thing that lends some credence to Mr. Deering's view, however. When I have my 3910 set at IRE 7.5, I need to turn my TV's brightness (black level) setting down much lower than the TV's default setting, and much lower than the setting I'm using with my DVR input. At 0 IRE, the brightness setting is much closer to the default and almost the same as my DVR input. Now, since my TV allows me to have separate settings for each input, this isn't any big deal for me, but it might be important for TV's that don't allow for input-specific settings.

Bottom line for me: I've left my 3910 set at 0 IRE. Can't do any harm, and although I don't see any difference, maybe I'm missing something.
Have you captured and used HDNet's test pattern? That may shed some light on what standard our hi-def DVRs are using. It would make sense that whatever setting is closest to "right" on a display calibrated with HDnet's pattern would be the best one for the 3910 as well as the 2910.

pepar,

We don't get HDNet yet up here in Juneau. Maybe sometime in the next year or so. But I'm pretty confident that the correct brightness setting on my SXRD for the signal I'm getting thru my STB/DVR is probably just a few clicks shy of the TV's default setting. If I set my 3910 to 0 IRE and calibrate with the pluge pattern on DVE, I end up with a very similar brightness setting. But at 7.5 IRE, the resulting brightness setting is much lower.

So I guess I agree with you. All other things being equal, it makes sense to me to use the IRE setting on the 3910 that puts you in the same brightness ball park as your other inputs. And for me, with my SXRD connected to my 3910 via HDMI, that IRE setting seems to be 0.

VIDEOKNG,

As noted in my post above, my experience with my SXRD and 3910 is that with the 3910 set to 0 IRE, the calibrated brightness setting on my SXRD is close to the default (around 28 or 29). But at 7.5 IRE from the 3910, the calibrated brightness setting on my SXRD is much lower (around 18). So, if you've been leaving your SXRD's brightness at or near the default, it doesn't surprise me that your PQ looks a lot better at 0 IRE than 7.5 IRE.

I'm sure your right. I'll continue to experiment with all the settings. At 7.5 IRE, I must have the brightness to high because thats what it looks like.

And, fwiw, HDNet runs a test pattern Tuesday early AM - 6:30 - 7:00, I think, so you can do a setting for cable. I'm pretty sure cable is a "7.5 IRE source."
Argh missed it today and it isn't on next week. Time to buy a test disk.

Argh missed it today and it isn't on next week. Time to buy a test disk.


Not sure where you're gonna buy a 1080i test disc ;)

Argh missed it today and it isn't on next week. Time to buy a test disk.
Really? I thought it was on every week.

"Argh missed it today and it isn't on next week. Time to buy a test disk."

IwantmyTHX,

Your post seems to suggest that you view using a test disk (DVD) to calibrate your TV as accomplishing the same thing as using HDNet's test pattern. I don't think that's correct.

As I understand it, in order to get the best picture from DVD, cable, satellite and other sources, you need to calibrate your TV separately for each source input. So, calibrate for cable/satellite using HDNet's test pattern, and calibrate for DVD using a DVD like Avia, DVE, or even the THX optimizer present on many theatrical DVDs. Settings that are correct for one input, may not be correct for others.

Your post seems to suggest that you view using a test disk (DVD) to calibrate your TV as accomplishing the same thing as using HDNet's test pattern. I don't think that's correct.

You are correct. The TV settings and DVD player settings are completely different on my steup. You definitely need to test the pattern from the source you want to calibrate the settings to. Once I got my DVD players settings correct, then I had to create a second memory setting for the projector to handle the TV signals, because things looked out of whack.

You are correct. The TV settings and DVD player settings are completely different on my steup. You definitely need to test the pattern from the source you want to calibrate the settings to. Once I got my DVD players settings correct, then I had to create a second memory setting for the projector to handle the TV signals, because things looked out of whack.
Perhaps the best thing to do is to calibrate the display to the "un-adjustable" STB and then use the 3910 picture settings to adjust the DVD picture.

That whats throwing me off with my 3910 settings. I'm using my cable Tv settings that make HD tv look great (on input# 6) but those settings don't work when playing a DVD with the the SXRD's input #7.

I need to get that AVIA disc too.

Perhaps the best thing to do is to calibrate the display to the "un-adjustable" STB and then use the 3910 picture settings to adjust the DVD picture.

I though about doing that, but It is perfectly fine the way I am doing it now. The macros I have set up will take care of things when I am turning on the devices and puts things to the correct settings.

That whats throwing me off with my 3910 settings. I'm using my cable Tv settings that make HD tv look great (on input# 6) but those settings don't work when playing a DVD with the the SXRD's input #7.

I need to get that AVIA disc too.
I'm switching external to my projector, so I'm able to use the same input. My projector (HS20) has several memory positions, but it's just one less thing to switch with the suggestion I made.

IwantmyTHX,

Your post seems to suggest that you view using a test disk (DVD) to calibrate your TV as accomplishing the same thing as using HDNet's test pattern. I don't think that's correct.

not at all, I just want to see how good the tv can get. The picture looks great but I know it can get better.
Once I have the room setup and everything finished then I plan to bring in a pro(or buy a proj. first)

Really? I thought it was on every week.
Next week is "Intro to HDNET"

This is probably a really dumb question but I am going to ask it anyway.

I recently sent my 3910 back for repair of the transport mechanism and the player came back with a weird quirk.

The multichannel SACD and DVD-Audio don't work, they just play in two channel stereo. When I play a DTS or DD soundtrack I get all the surround I can stand but the two high rez audio features....nada.

Is this something simple that I can correct in the settings menu. I don't have on-screen-display hooked up at the moment so can someone guide me through fixing this issue from the front panel?

Sure would appreciate the help.

Russ

This is probably a really dumb question but I am going to ask it anyway.

I recently sent my 3910 back for repair of the transport mechanism and the player came back with a weird quirk.

The multichannel SACD and DVD-Audio don't work, they just play in two channel stereo. When I play a DTS or DD soundtrack I get all the surround I can stand but the two high rez audio features....nada.

Is this something simple that I can correct in the settings menu. I don't have on-screen-display hooked up at the moment so can someone guide me through fixing this issue from the front panel?

Sure would appreciate the help.

Russ
Not sure you can check it w/o a display, but go to Setup|Etc and make sure "Audio" is selected. If it's not that, I'm outta ideas as I do not use DVD-A/SACD.

Russ,

Go through the setup menu and make sure everything is set for multichannel. (Except ieee unless that's what you're using). Denon may have reset your player back to factory defaults. Set DVD Audio/Video to "Audio". And don't forget about that button on the front that chooses which track of an SACD to play.

Ken

IIRC, There is a button on the front panel marked "SACD set-up", just press it until it says MULTI and it will default to that layer ;)

FYI, I set the SACD button on the front panel to "Multi" and I am still only getting 2 Channel. I will try going into the setup menu and set everything to Audio. I'll revert back.

Russ

Russ, have you set up your receiver to properly accept the analog outputs from the 3910?

Hi Matt,
Yes, I own the Anthem Statement D1 and it was set up fine before I sent the unit to Denon. Nothing has changed on the receiver so I have to assume it is something on the 3910....or perhaps it was just sent back to me with new problems!

you are using the 6 channel analog audio outputs, correct?

Yes indeed Tom.

I am going to start searching as I think someone said in this thread already, but sometimes asking is faster.
Has anyone used DVD-R instead Of CD-R for the update? Did it work?

Russ:

Please excuse my "newbie"-osity, but I'll assume you're not making the rookie mistake I made and that you're testing this function with a multi-channel SACD? I just got my 3910 last month--my first SACD-capable player ever--so rushed out to get a couple SACDs to enjoy the glories of multichannel sound beyond movie tracks. Well, the first SACD I put on--Deep Forest III--was, incredibly enough, a STEREO-ONLY SACD. I was unaware that such an animal existed. (Like, what's the point?) Needless to say, I was endlessly frustrated, going over the 3910 manual over and over again, trying to figure out why the damned thing didn't work. It wasn't until I put the other disc in the next day and got multi-channel sound that I bothered to take a closer look at the other disc--sure enough, labeled "stereo" right on the jewel case--and read as such by the 3910.

Sheesh.

I am going to start searching as I think someone said in this thread already, but sometimes asking is faster.
Has anyone used DVD-R instead Of CD-R for the update? Did it work?

DVD-R has worked for me, in the past, for the single disk upgrades. It definitely DID NOT WORK for the three disk upgrade. In fact, the last disk started to spin faster and faster, and was still spinning quite rapidly when the played ejected it! I'd originally burned the upgrade to DVD by reflex, without paying too much attention to that part of the documentation. It is, after all, a DVD players.... I think I'll pay attention from now on.
Roy

Thankyou, as I thought I spent that whole time searching and didn't find the post.

DLSMITH,
Yeah, I'm not quite that new to the game. I am using all multi-channel discs. This is an issue for the setup I bet. Tonight I will play around and post again tomorrow.

make sure the disk isn't playing (it must be stopped) when you switch the SACD setting to multi. It only takes effect then.

Russ,
I had this exact same issue with my 3910. I had sent it back to Denon twice. It turns out that they forgot to reconnect the surround audio cable after completing the repairs. I sent it back a third time and it was returned with everything working.

Billy

I am going to start searching as I think someone said in this thread already, but sometimes asking is faster.
Has anyone used DVD-R instead Of CD-R for the update? Did it work?

I have not use a DVD-R, but I would think that would be wasted because you know that you are not going to reuse it multiple time. For me I am using CD-RW so that I can reuse the disc after the firmware has been loaded.

I have not use a DVD-R, but I would think that would be wasted because you know that you are not going to reuse it multiple time. For me I am using CD-RW so that I can reuse the disc after the firmware has been loaded.
thanks I went to BB and bought a box of CD-r's, I need them for some upcoming audio work.
Any way I did the upgrade and it worked. I didn't get the last "complete" on the display after removing the 3rd disk and cycling the power. but i checked the firmware and reset the player and everything works.

Billy,
You are the winner! I walked through scads of menus with the service rep at Denon a few hours ago. His conclusion.....the surround audio cable must have been disconnected during my recent service. Back she goes! I have to say, between technical problems and necessary firmware upgrades I feel like I really have to work to be a Denon owner. To think, I could have owned a worry free Oppo cheapo for the cost of about a dozen pizzas and a couple cases of good beer.

Russ

Billy,
You are the winner! I walked through scads of menus with the service rep at Denon a few hours ago. His conclusion.....the surround audio cable must have been disconnected during my recent service. Back she goes! I have to say, between technical problems and necessary firmware upgrades I feel like I really have to work to be a Denon owner. To think, I could have owned a worry free Oppo cheapo for the cost of about a dozen pizzas and a couple cases of good beer.

Russ

That's just bad luck and I feel for you. But I bet most of the 3910's have been trouble-free. Fortunately mine has - I've just applied the firmware updates as they've been released, and everything has worked great. The 3910's audio quality is what I like best, and that alone has made it a very worthwhile purchase.

Whoah, this is the longest thread I have ever started!! Glad to see so much 3910 info.

Question:

I have never played a Fullscreen DVD in my theater .. until last night.

Even though it was 4:3 fullscreen, the image was horizontally stretched to 16:9 and no mode I put my projector into changed that, so it must have been my 3910 stretching the image.

How do I see 4:3 look like 4:3 ???

Thx!!

-- Cain

Just replaced my Pioneer 868 with a denon 3910 to complement my new 4806.

Something is bugging me very very much:

I have a HT1000 projector set to 16:9 and use HDMI from the 3910 to drive it (720P as this brings the best results)

With my pioneer 868, whenever material on the disk was non-anamorphic 4:3 content, the Pio would "squeeze" the material automatically. When the material on the dvd was 16:9 anamorphic, I got full screen automatically. Nice.

Now with the Denon I found the "squeeze" setting that does the same, but not automatic!

That's "bad" because in HD modes (720 or 1080) my HT1000's aspect controls aren't working.

Furthermore, except to go in the menu's, I can't find an easy way to turn squeeze on or off from the remote control. Quickest way is going to the player and turn/push the video settings button.

This is a serious oversight on Denon's behalf. Heck, a 30$ no-name player linked with s-video to my 7 year old Wega Widescreen TV switches wide & 4:3 automatically!

I'd love to hear from people with the same issues and their way to work around it. Are there discrete RF commands for squeeze on/off? That might solve my problem in the future.

I'd even love to mail Denon about this, when I have enough names to sign it. Surely this can be fixed in firmware only.

PS. my firmware is ESS6609-D

Thanks ppl!

Whoah, this is the longest thread I have ever started!! Glad to see so much 3910 info.

Question:

I have never played a Fullscreen DVD in my theater .. until last night.

Even though it was 4:3 fullscreen, the image was horizontally stretched to 16:9 and no mode I put my projector into changed that, so it must have been my 3910 stretching the image.

How do I see 4:3 look like 4:3 ???

Thx!!

-- CainTurn squeeze mode on, Its available from the front pannel or in the set-up menu.

Just replaced my Pioneer 868 with a denon 3910 to complement my new 4806.

Something is bugging me very very much:

I have a HT1000 projector set to 16:9 and use HDMI from the 3910 to drive it (720P as this brings the best results)

With my pioneer 868, whenever material on the disk was non-anamorphic 4:3 content, the Pio would "squeeze" the material automatically. When the material on the dvd was 16:9 anamorphic, I got full screen automatically. Nice.

Now with the Denon I found the "squeeze" setting that does the same, but not automatic!

That's "bad" because in HD modes (720 or 1080) my HT1000's aspect controls aren't working.

Furthermore, except to go in the menu's, I can't find an easy way to turn squeeze on or off from the remote control. Quickest way is going to the player and turn/push the video settings button.

This is a serious oversight on Denon's behalf. Heck, a 30$ no-name player linked with s-video to my 7 year old Wega Widescreen TV switches wide & 4:3 automatically!

I'd love to hear from people with the same issues and their way to work around it. Are there discrete RF commands for squeeze on/off? That might solve my problem in the future.

I'd even love to mail Denon about this, when I have enough names to sign it. Surely this can be fixed in firmware only.

PS. my firmware is ESS6609-D

Thanks ppl!

Yves -

I agree. This issue had been discussed by many much earlier in this thread. Professonal DVD's have a flag/bit encoded into the software that the player can use as a reference to set the correct aspect ratio, given they are programmed to recognize it. It was surmised that Denon could include this feature in the 3910 with a firmware update. If it's true that Denon technical support does read this forum, maybe we could get this automatic feature included in a future update. To me, I can't think of a reason why one wouldn't want the player to adhere to the proper aspect ratio. But I also don't understand why multi-channel hi-res music hasn't taken off, which is the main reason I purchased the 3910 to begin with!

To answer your question, I just use the remote control and choose the "Squeeze Off" selection buried in the set-up menu. I agree it isn't very user friendly but at least Denon provides an option for it.

Andre'

Aspect switching/flag is defined in the DVD menu. It hurts to know a $1500 player can't do what a $30 Apex can - for me this is basic functionality. Hires audio might not haven taken off but that is not Denon's fault, the player is perfect in that matter.

If I use the squeeze on (which is only accessible in a "normal" manner from the front of the machine, or deep in the menu's via remote control) everything gets squeezed.

I think it's a defect. I know it has been discussed in the thread earlier (did a full search on this thread) but it was never resolved, that's why I asked again.

I got the -E version of the firmware somewhere (magenta tint issue with HDMI) which I will try tonight, maybe the squeeze is fixed as well, let's see.

Turn squeeze mode on, Its available from the front pannel or in the set-up menu.

Thank you Tom, so "squeeze mode" on allows the player to display a 4:3 DVD as 4:3 and not stretched out.

I agree with the other fellow, I would have thought a player this nice would do that automatically.

Take care,

-- Cain

I really need help with two issues.

1) Audio Setup Menu. I cannot seem to access some of the options in this portion of the "Setup" tabs. Audio Channel, Digital Output, LPCM, Source Direct, Bass Enhancer are all greyed out with our without a disc in the player, I turned it on and off... How to I get those back?

2) DVD-A when connected via component cables from the 5.1 outputs to my Outlaw 990 7.1 direct inputs produces only Stereo, and this is a DVD-A disk with DD5.1 and DTS 5.1 playback options. How do I get this to work?

Thanks!

I really need help with two issues.

1) Audio Setup Menu. I cannot seem to access some of the options in this portion of the "Setup" tabs. Audio Channel, Digital Output, LPCM, Source Direct, Bass Enhancer are all greyed out with our without a disc in the player, I turned it on and off... How to I get those back?

2) DVD-A when connected via component cables from the 5.1 outputs to my Outlaw 990 7.1 direct inputs produces only Stereo, and this is a DVD-A disk with DD5.1 and DTS 5.1 playback options. How do I get this to work?

Thanks!

Nevermind, I figured it out. Had to change the HDMI audio output to 2ch for the audio menu to come back. Goofy if you ask me...

A quick question for anyone...... I am trying to use the component out from the 3910... at the same time I have the DVI out connected.... I am not getting any output from the component... can both these connections be hooked up at the same time....?

All I want to do is some A/B - DVI vs Component.......

Don

Thank you Tom, so "squeeze mode" on allows the player to display a 4:3 DVD as 4:3 and not stretched out.

I agree with the other fellow, I would have thought a player this nice would do that automatically.

Take care,

-- Cain

I think it at the very least needs a setting. Automatic would be cool when it worked, but I've seen discs that were widescreen but the bit said they were fullscreen. Also, I've seen some older disks that look like they're letterboxed widescreen for a 4:3 display (is that widescreen but not anamorphic?). Anyway, when I play them on my 16:9 display their aspect ratio is just off: they're too wide and not high enough. If I turn on squeeze mode and then zoom my display and it's just perfect. I'm not sure how an automatic setting would interpret that kind of disk.

have any fellow 3910 owners ever had the opportunity to compare the pq of the 3910 to the pq of the 5910, side-by-side or by doing an a/b comparison on the same tv?

i'm thinking about maybe upgrading from my 3910 to a 5910 but would only do so if the difference in pq is sufficiently noticeable.

have any fellow 3910 owners ever had the opportunity to compare the pq of the 3910 to the pq of the 5910, side-by-side or by doing an a/b comparison on the same tv?

i'm thinking about maybe upgrading from my 3910 to a 5910 but would only do so if the difference in pq is sufficiently noticeable.

Unfortunately, I have not had the luxury of being able to do a comparison. But with the upcoming formats and the hardware to be released later this year, you would consider dropping that much $$ on a standard DVD player??

Thank you Tom, so "squeeze mode" on allows the player to display a 4:3 DVD as 4:3 and not stretched out.

I agree with the other fellow, I would have thought a player this nice would do that automatically.

Take care,

-- Cain

I agree, this is a total brain fa%$ of the part of Denon to not fix this issue with auto squeeze a 4:3 source. You would think by now they would get it and do something about it. Once again, let's get out the pitchforks, torches and assemble in the Town Square in order to march on the Castle.
:D

Unfortunately, I have not had the luxury of being able to do a comparison. But with the upcoming formats and the hardware to be released later this year, you would consider dropping that much $$ on a standard DVD player??


realistically, i don't think there will be a model of Blu-Ray or HD-DVD that I would consider ready for prime time in my setup any time in the near future, regardless of all the buzz and hype.

have you seen the latest on the blu-ray players that will be sold not being "full profile" ???

also, i have a large collection of sd dvd's and i highly doubt that the new players, whatever format that actually wins (btw, that will also delay me buying a new hd unit, the format war...i'll wait for the outcome), will be able to do as good a job on sd dvd's as the mature sd dvd players currently out; they also have an upgrade to the 5910 that will allow it to output 1080p

also, i have a large collection of sd dvd's and i highly doubt that the new players, whatever format that actually wins (btw, that will also delay me buying a new hd unit, the format war...i'll wait for the outcome), will be able to do as good a job on sd dvd's as the mature sd dvd players currently out; they also have an upgrade to the 5910 that will allow it to output 1080p

Didn't you know that all sd dvd's are going to vaporize when the first Blu Ray disc is sold forcing you to repurchase your entire collection? :)

I do agree the squeeze mode thing is abysmal. My biggest complaint.

When I (rarely) watch a 4:3 movie, I just stay an extra few seconds at the player (you have to be there anyway to insert the DVD into the player) and turn squeeze mode on at the front panel.

you have to be there anyway to insert the DVD into the playerThat's my biggest gripe....for $1300 the damn machine should be able to select the DVD off my shelf and insert it itself.......firmware upgrade?

That's my biggest gripe....for $1300 the damn machine should be able to select the DVD off my shelf and insert it itself.......firmware upgrade?

Here we go again, strap on your helmets.
:eek: