I spoke to a friend who is a denon dealer and he said COME IN and chat we will figure something out
Wonder whats up his sleeve

I spoke to a friend who is a denon dealer and he said COME IN and chat we will figure something out
Wonder whats up his sleeve
We got to move these refrigerators, we gotta move these color TVs. :)

We got to move these refrigerators, we gotta move these color TVs. :)

Yep, that's the way you do it... ;)

Hey, I want the money for nothing and chicks for free!

Guys - Is there any chance I could regain my happiness with a 2930?
(remember I recently sold my 3910)
I know the audio is not going to be the same, but the video might be a bit better with the reon SI, and it has DL3, unlike the 2910. I wish there were more reviews...

Guys - Is there any chance I could regain my happiness with a 2930?
(remember I recently sold my 3910)
I know the audio is not going to be the same, but the video might be a bit better with the reon SI, and it has DL3, unlike the 2910. I wish there were more reviews...

I bought my 3910 mainly for its audio capability, so I personally would be reluctant to give it up. Before I did, I would want to give the 2930 a careful audition, on my system if possible. Maybe the differences wouldn't be that noticeable, especially using the DL3.

So I guess whether you'd be happy with it depends what's more important to you, but I would want to demo one to be sure.

Guys - Is there any chance I could regain my happiness with a 2930?
(remember I recently sold my 3910)
I know the audio is not going to be the same, but the video might be a bit better with the reon SI, and it has DL3, unlike the 2910. I wish there were more reviews...

Why not check out one of the Denon internet sites and pick up a referb 3910 for cheap?

Thanks John, it may come to that. I'd like to at least see a review of the video on the 2930.

Does the 3930 have any audio/SQ advantages over the 3910? Has anyone been able to compare the sound between these two models?

Thanks,
Darrell

Does the 3930 have any audio/SQ advantages over the 3910? Has anyone been able to compare the sound between these two models?
It certainly has a major PQ advantage if you get MB with your display and the 3910.

Does the 3930 have any audio/SQ advantages over the 3910? Has anyone been able to compare the sound between these two models?

Thanks,
Darrell

The analog outputs on the 3930 may well have better SQ than the 3910,
since it is equipped with Advanced AL 24+ processing vs AL 24+, and the DACs are operated in dual mono mode for stereo sources. It may also have better power supplies (unconfirmed).

If one is using the Denon Link, then don't expect any SQ differences bewteen the 3910, 3930 and 2930.

And which one wins out if you Don't have MB with your display?

It certainly has a major PQ advantage if you get MB with your display and the 3910.

Has anybody had a problem with a very loud vibration from the player after loading a DVD? I have only noticed it on one DVD so far, but it is so loud I can not watch it. I have only had the player for about a month, and it is still under warranty, so I am debating to take it back to the dealer or not. The DVD is Jackie Brown.

Has anybody had a problem with a very loud vibration from the player after loading a DVD? I have only noticed it on one DVD so far, but it is so loud I can not watch it. I have only had the player for about a month, and it is still under warranty, so I am debating to take it back to the dealer or not. The DVD is Jackie Brown.

I have noticed a loud vibration when I first put in a DVD.... usually when it is at the menu.... but it stops when it starts to play the movie... if your 3910 is new, return it to the store you got it from for a replacement.... if you can not do that contact Denon...

Don

I have noticed a loud vibration when I first put in a DVD.... usually when it is at the menu.... but it stops when it starts to play the movie... if your 3910 is new, return it to the store you got it from for a replacement.... if you can not do that contact Denon...

Don

No, this happens from the moment you close the drawer and it starts to load the movie but does not stop. I have also noticed the noise that your speaking of I think, but this is probably 10x as loud and does not stop.

No, this happens from the moment you close the drawer and it starts to load the movie but does not stop. I have also noticed the noise that your speaking of I think, but this is probably 10x as loud and does not stop.

If only does this on 1 disc try getting another copy of that disk and see if it does it too.....

Just a thought....

Don

Has anybody had a problem with a very loud vibration from the player after loading a DVD? I have only noticed it on one DVD so far, but it is so loud I can not watch it. I have only had the player for about a month, and it is still under warranty, so I am debating to take it back to the dealer or not. The DVD is Jackie Brown.
Usually, that is an indication that the disc is out-of-balance. That'd be difficult - not quite like putting all your jeans on one side of the dryer - so perhaps the hole is not exactly centered. If it only does it on one disc, then it is most likely the disc.

I have my new TV coming today, Sony 70 XBR2. What is the best way to hook up the DVD to the TV to get the best picture? HDMI? Componets? Fiber?

Thanks

I have my new TV coming today, Sony 70 XBR2. What is the best way to hook up the DVD to the TV to get the best picture? HDMI? Componets? Fiber?

Thanks
Just a guess, but on a 70" display, I'd think that the HDMI/DVI would produce a better picture. But you should try that and the component and decide for yourself.

I have my new TV coming today, Sony 70 XBR2. What is the best way to hook up the DVD to the TV to get the best picture? HDMI? Componets? Fiber?

Thanks

I would use HDMI or DVI for video as the Component connection will not scale up.

SC

I would use HDMI or DVI for video as the Component connection will not scale up.

SC
If the Sony has the better scaler, then *it* should do the scaling. Again, I would recommend trying both connections and deciding for oneself which is better.

If the Sony has the better scaler, then *it* should do the scaling. Again, I would recommend trying both connections and deciding for oneself which is better.

If it does have a better scaler you're absolutely correct. Just a question though, wouldn't you have to send the digital signal native to the display in order to have the display scale it up? Unless of course it can go native through component! Maybe I'm amswering my own ?? :p I was always under the impression that in order to scale up it had to be connected via DVI/HDMI, component did not do any up scaling. This is why I'm asking the question. Maybe I'm just not understanding this whole upscaling thing. :confused:

SC

I have my new TV coming today, Sony 70 XBR2. What is the best way to hook up the DVD to the TV to get the best picture? HDMI? Componets? Fiber?

Thanks

Congrats on the purchase!

What ever you decide please post your results. The 60" XBR2 is on my short list.

I figured this one out.

I would use HDMI or DVI for video as the Component connection will not scale up.

SC

I have a DVI out on the 3910, but not in on the XBR2, so should I go DVI to HDMI or HDMI to HDMI?

I do have a RGB (PC) in does this matter?

Thanks

Michael

I have a DVI out on the 3910, but not in on the XBR2, so should I go DVI to HDMI or HDMI to HDMI?

I do have a RGB (PC) in does this matter?

Thanks

Michael

I would go HDMI to HDMI, this will allow upscaling to 1080i and will also give you the added benefit of digital audio through this connection. In essence you will have one connection into the display for video and audio. :)

I would go HDMI to HDMI, this will allow upscaling to 1080i and will also give you the added benefit of digital audio through this connection. In essence you will have one connection into the display for video and audio. :)

Thanks,

I moved to a HDMI to HDMI from the DVD to TV and Optical from DVD to Audio.

Thanks

If it does have a better scaler you're absolutely correct. Just a question though, wouldn't you have to send the digital signal native to the display in order to have the display scale it up? Unless of course it can go native through component! Maybe I'm amswering my own ?? :p I was always under the impression that in order to scale up it had to be connected via DVI/HDMI, component did not do any up scaling. This is why I'm asking the question. Maybe I'm just not understanding this whole upscaling thing. :confused:

SC
I wasn't sure which you were referring to . . .

The TV upscales everything to it's native resolution regardless of the input. The 3910 upscales only on DVI/HDMI, but will de-interlace on component output.

If you were going to sell your 3910, what do you think would be a good asking price?

I was going to get into Audio, but seems that I only use it for DVDs, so I am going to get a HD-DVD player.

Michael

Thanks,

I moved to a HDMI to HDMI from the DVD to TV and Optical from DVD to Audio.

Thanks
How's it look? Are you de-interlacing or upscaling at all with the 3910?

How's it look? Are you de-interlacing or upscaling at all with the 3910?

It looks about the same as the componets, how do you de-interlacing or upscaling on the 3910?

It looks about the same as the componets, how do you de-interlacing or upscaling on the 3910?
There are settings in setup. You can select 480i or 480p on component output. On DVI/HDMI you can select 480i, 480p, 720p or 1080i. The new 3930 offers 1080p output.

Gotcha, I have it set at 1080i

If you were going to sell your 3910, what do you think would be a good asking price?

I was going to get into Audio, but seems that I only use it for DVDs, so I am going to get a HD-DVD player.

Michael
If you abandon your 3910, make sure the HD-DVD player you get has SD performance equal to your 3910. I'd imagine that you still have a lot of DVDs.

I'm thinking of getting the Toshiba A2, and have only 1 DVI input on my 720p DLP. Do you think I should keep the DVI with my 3910 for SD DVDs and use component with the A2 for HD-DVDs, or use the DVI (with a DVI/HDMI adapter) for the A2 and change the 3910 to component (480p out), and then either use the A2 or the 3910 for SD DVDs?

Gotcha, I have it set at 1080i
Run a calibration DVD if you haven't already. Then view some "reference quality" DVDs and then switch the 3910 output to 720p and watch the same DVDs. Then select 480p output and do it again. If you have some eagle-eyed friends, have them over to watch with you. Then select the output setting that looked the best.

I'm thinking of getting the Toshiba A2, and have only 1 DVI input on my 720p DLP. Do you think I should keep the DVI with my 3910 for SD DVDs and use component with the A2 for HD-DVDs, or use the DVI (with a DVI/HDMI adapter) for the A2 and change the 3910 to component (480p out), and then either use the A2 or the 3910 for SD DVDs?
You might be able to "get away with" using component output on the 3910, but then you will not be able to upscale. How big is your display? The quality difference between component and DVI/HDMI is usually not noticeable unless one is viewing on a large display. I'm pretty sure you should not consider any output but digital on the A2. Sounds like it might be time for a switcher!

You might be able to "get away with" using component output on the 3910, but then you will not be able to upscale. How big is your display? The quality difference between component and DVI/HDMI is usually not noticeable unless one is viewing on a large display. I'm pretty sure you should not consider any output but digital on the A2. Sounds like it might be time for a switcher!
The DVI switchers are very expensive (unlike the HDMI switchers). I have a 56" DLP at 11' away. Supposedly, component does well with the Tosh A1 (the A2 is not out yet), at least until the studios start adding flags to prevent HD output with component. Plus, many A1 owners claim the upscaling is as good as the Denons, although I don't really believe that.

After some research, it looks like one can use an HDMI switcher with HDMI/DVI adapters. At RAM, they're $250, whereas they're much, much less at Monoprice. Are the less expensive switchers good enough?

After some research, it looks like one can use an HDMI switcher with HDMI/DVI adapters. At RAM, they're $250, whereas they're much, much less at Monoprice. Are the less expensive switchers good enough?
Check bandwidth to make sure it will pass ALL resolutions including 1080p. Buy a well known/well-reviewed brand from a reputable vendor. With a liberal return policy.

The DVI switchers are very expensive (unlike the HDMI switchers). I have a 56" DLP at 11' away. Supposedly, component does well with the Tosh A1 (the A2 is not out yet), at least until the studios start adding flags to prevent HD output with component. Plus, many A1 owners claim the upscaling is as good as the Denons, although I don't really believe that.

Just my opinion, owning both the A1 and the 3910, the Tosh A1 more than meets the needs for an upconverting player, plus you get high def movies. From reading these forums the main complaint about the A1 seems to be on the audio side of the equation for music. I certainly haven't had all the glitches some report with the player as far as video playback. Icing on the cake was that the A1 cost me $450 in May of 2006 (as an open box at BB!) I shelled out $1,500 in March of 2006 for the 3910. I use the 3910 as a high end CD player these days.

On another note. I don't understand folks who say they really can't see the difference between watching a upconverted DVD or a high def DVD (be it HD DVD or Blu-Ray.) I would think that Kris Deering or Sspeers would agree.

On another note. I don't understand folks who say they really can't see the difference between watching a upconverted DVD or a high def DVD (be it HD DVD or Blu-Ray.) I would think that Kris Deering or Sspeers would agree.
Perhaps it's their display and/or they just do not know what to look at/for.

On another note. I don't understand folks who say they really can't see the difference between watching a upconverted DVD or a high def DVD (be it HD DVD or Blu-Ray.)
That's hard to believe. Both high def formats blow away upscaled SD DVDs (except maybe for some of the initial poorly mastered BDs).

When I add the A2, I'll probably go with an HDMI switch so both the A2 and the 3910 can be hooked up to my DLP digitally. Since my DLP only has DVI input, I'll need an adapter for my DVI cable that goes from the switch to the display. What should I set the HDMI output from the 3910 to: Y Cb Cr, or RBG? I believe I am currently outputting DVI RBG, so should I set HDMI to RBG since the DVI is what will end up going to the display?

Got a strange situation here.

Living in the US and updated the 3910 to play DVDs from more than just region 1 - particularly to be able to play DVDs from home (Denmark). I used the firmware update that was posted a while back. Not the pushbutton hack mentioned elsewhere.

I just bought the new James Bond Ultimate Collection. When I play the "Special Features" DVD, the menus come up in Japanese. I believe this is because the player is playing the region 2 version of the DVD rather than region 1. I verified this in Windows Media Player. Set the Region to 2 here and the menus come up in Japanese. Set the region to 1 and the menus come up in English.

It is interesting why the player is choosing to play the Region 2 version rather than 1.

My question is whether I can somehow change the order, so that it will always try Region 1 first (which clearly is on the DVD), then 2 etc.

If not, other ideas? Not a huge problem, but as I don't read Japanese it makes navigating the menus a little harder.

Thanks

I really could use some help.

I've had the 3910 for at least a year now. I realize that that the menu system is a bit of a pain. Here's my issue.

I have the following DVD-A s:

Eagles - Hotel California
Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms
Depeche Mode - Violator and Music for the Masses

In the past, when I put the Eagles or Dire Straits in the 3910, the main DVD menu would come up, from which you could choose the playback format, and see the track that was being played. The 3910 would also output via Toslink.

The Problem:

Eagles or Dire Straits - Neither will not display the Video portion (and therefore I cannot get to the Audio menu of the disc). The video from the 3910 starts out, shows disc loading... Play... video cuts out and TV shows .... Input 6/DVD. DVD-A light is lit on the front panel of the 3910. Toslink output is not happening. Output is bing sent via 7.1 output (with only 2 channels being sent). What that leads me to believe is that the standard playback of this disc is 2 channel. No matter what I try, I cannot get the video to display, and I know that there is video on this player. With this disk in there, I cannot get the "Setup" menu to appear without opening the tray. I've also tried to turn off the player with the disc in there, no change. It worked in the past, ... sigh...

Depeche Mode DVD-A s work fine.

Anyone with thoughts?

I really could use some help.

I've had the 3910 for at least a year now. I realize that that the menu system is a bit of a pain. Here's my issue.

I have the following DVD-A s:

Eagles - Hotel California
Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms
Depeche Mode - Violator and Music for the Masses

In the past, when I put the Eagles or Dire Straits in the 3910, the main DVD menu would come up, from which you could choose the playback format, and see the track that was being played. The 3910 would also output via Toslink.

The Problem:

Eagles or Dire Straits - Neither will not display the Video portion (and therefore I cannot get to the Audio menu of the disc). The video from the 3910 starts out, shows disc loading... Play... video cuts out and TV shows .... Input 6/DVD. DVD-A light is lit on the front panel of the 3910. Toslink output is not happening. Output is bing sent via 7.1 output (with only 2 channels being sent). What that leads me to believe is that the standard playback of this disc is 2 channel. No matter what I try, I cannot get the video to display, and I know that there is video on this player. With this disk in there, I cannot get the "Setup" menu to appear without opening the tray. I've also tried to turn off the player with the disc in there, no change. It worked in the past, ... sigh...

Depeche Mode DVD-A s work fine.

Anyone with thoughts?
I've seen others post about having problems such as not properly reading discs. It starts with a few, but as more time passes it deteriorates until no discs work. Some people have been able to use a can of compressed air to clean the read laser, while for others the fix has been to replace the laser assembly. Dunno if that's your problem or not though.

I really could use some help.

I've had the 3910 for at least a year now. I realize that that the menu system is a bit of a pain. Here's my issue.

I have the following DVD-A s:

Eagles - Hotel California
Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms
Depeche Mode - Violator and Music for the Masses

In the past, when I put the Eagles or Dire Straits in the 3910, the main DVD menu would come up, from which you could choose the playback format, and see the track that was being played. The 3910 would also output via Toslink.

The Problem:

Eagles or Dire Straits - Neither will not display the Video portion (and therefore I cannot get to the Audio menu of the disc). The video from the 3910 starts out, shows disc loading... Play... video cuts out and TV shows .... Input 6/DVD. DVD-A light is lit on the front panel of the 3910. Toslink output is not happening. Output is bing sent via 7.1 output (with only 2 channels being sent). What that leads me to believe is that the standard playback of this disc is 2 channel. No matter what I try, I cannot get the video to display, and I know that there is video on this player. With this disk in there, I cannot get the "Setup" menu to appear without opening the tray. I've also tried to turn off the player with the disc in there, no change. It worked in the past, ... sigh...

Depeche Mode DVD-A s work fine.

Anyone with thoughts?

Do you hear the drive spinning up and down a lot after first inserting the disc? And do you ever get just a bunch of zeros on the front panel display as it here was no disc in the player?

If so, you probably have a laser tracking assembly problem mentioned by pepar. You could try blowing some compressed air in there and see if that helps, but I suspect you'll need to have the player serviced.

If it is the tracking assembly, it will get worse over time until it has trouble playing any kind of disc.

I've seen others post about having problems such as not properly reading discs. It starts with a few, but as more time passes it deteriorates until no discs work. Some people have been able to use a can of compressed air to clean the read laser, while for others the fix has been to replace the laser assembly. Dunno if that's your problem or not though.

I'm hoping that the 3910 is just stuck in some... "no video output" for these two discs that are obviously being recognized differently thant others. Some "Pure Direct ...

With the disc out, I can specify that the Mode is "Normal". My fear is that with the damn thing in there, that it's choosing a different mode the minute it's played.

Ok, so it seems that the damn thing is remembering the disc and playing back the group and track that it remembers me using. I cannot get out of it.

I say this because for a second I did get out of it and it started to play "the making of...", but after pressing another button (don't remember what), it went back to being no video. I tried to "re-initialize" with no release on the stranglehold that the player's memory...

If I can figure out how to skip groups with this piece of .... :mad:

If it were not for the audio quality, it'd be on e-bay... ;)

Solved the problem.

Setup->Etc->Player Mode->Video...

For more info, search the manual for "Player Mode"

For some reason is was on Audio, but regardless, what a PITA this thing can be. The sound is awsome, but at the same time the UI sucks.

... The sound is awsome, but at the same time the UI sucks.
Wait until you hear the DVD-A tracks.


[[[hint]]] DVD-A will NOT pass through toslink. You have to use analog, ieee-1394 (firewire) or Denon link to play SACD or DVD-A (MLP)

Wait until you hear the DVD-A tracks.


[[[hint]]] DVD-A will NOT pass through toslink. You have to use analog, ieee-1394 (firewire) or Denon link to play SACD or DVD-A (MLP)

I disagree. DVD-A contains DD and DTS tracks, which will pass through toslink.
SCAD I'll agree and have 5.1 connected to the 7.1 input of the pre-amp.

Please tell me the error in my thinking... I'm open to know how best to make the connections, but I cannot see how to send a DTS track through an analog connection...

But WHY would you do that if you own a 3910? DD and DTS are lossy compression. If you want to listen to the good stuff (MLP/DVD-A) you cant use toslink.

So what your saying is spend more time in the 2 channel tracks on the Disk, and not on the DD and/or DTS tracks?

Depends on what I'm in the mood for I would honestly say. Have not given them their fair chance.

No, Im saying spend ZERO time with the lossy DD or DTS tracks on DVD-A discs. Listen to the multichannel (or two channel) MLP tracks and enjoy hi-resolution audio

Pawrampe, after you load the disk go into the disk's Audio Setup and select "MLP 5.1" or "5.1 Surround" or whatever they label it as - as opposed to either DTS or DD. This is what Tom is referring to when he says the true hi-resolution audio will not play via Toslink.

Anyone own a Denon 3910 mated with a SXRD?

I'm not always impressed on how DVDs look played on the 3910 via HDMI to my (calibrated) SXRD.

I'm not sure if its poorly mastered DVDs or how the 3910 interacts with the SXRD but on darker scenes (like during Superman Returns) I see weird video noise (like a moving green cloud or could be purple) that only occurs during the darkest of scenes.

Not all DVDs exhibit this anomaly so I think it may be the way some DVDs are transferred and the fact that the SXRD is very unforgiving when it comes to SD.

I'll be getting a XBOX HD-DVD player for Xmas so I will soon find out if a HD player eliminates the video noise problem.

But its kinda of disappointing to have paid big $$$ on the Denon and the SXRD and to see this awful video problem on many DVDs.

I disagree. DVD-A contains DD and DTS tracks, which will pass through toslink.
SCAD I'll agree and have 5.1 connected to the 7.1 input of the pre-amp.

Please tell me the error in my thinking... I'm open to know how best to make the connections, but I cannot see how to send a DTS track through an analog connection...
If you have not heard the DVD-A tracks, you have no idea how much better they are than DD or DTD. Check Tom Grooms' post #6552 for connections that will allow you to hear the real reason we buy DVD-A material.

Solved the problem.

Setup->Etc->Player Mode->Video...

For more info, search the manual for "Player Mode"

For some reason is was on Audio, but regardless, what a PITA this thing can be. The sound is awsome, but at the same time the UI sucks.
I think the "video" selection tells your 3910 to treat the DVD-A disc as a DVD-Video and offer up only DD/DTS. The "audio" selection is the correct one for treating a DVD-A as a DVD-A. But if you are not properly connected, you would get the operation that you described in your first post on this issue.

after re-reading you original post, I'm now thinking that you've never heard DVD-A. Wow, are you ever in for a jaw-dropping experience!

I have a question regarding the 10 db "Bass Enhance" feature of the DVD-3910. If I want to listen to a movie the way it was mixed at the studio, do I want this feature engaged or not?

Also, I've read past posts where folks who play music (DVD-A/SACD) discs on this unit will enable the bass enhance and add additional gain on the low-end (I recall one poster stating he added an additonal 10 db as well as enabling the bass enhance). My question is, how does one determine what a flat setting is on the 3910 and is it different for movies vs. music? I realize it's a matter of personal preference and taste but where is the starting point?

Andre'

Anyone own a Denon 3910 mated with a SXRD?

I'm not always impressed on how DVDs look played on the 3910 via HDMI to my (calibrated) SXRD.

I'm not sure if its poorly mastered DVDs or how the 3910 interacts with the SXRD but on darker scenes (like during Superman Returns) I see weird video noise (like a moving green cloud or could be purple) that only occurs during the darkest of scenes.
I have a 3910 and a Toshiba 720p plasma set, and I see the same thing on certain DVD's as well as certain HDTV cable programs. Many people own the DVD of Godfather II, so I'll mention that this happens in various dark areas of scenes, such as dark pieces of clothing, areas in shadow, etc. And it's a darkly photographed film in many places, so there is a lot of it. This problem also shows up in many sources when a scene fades to black.

I don't know if the problem is related to the display I have, or to the 3910. A cable tech indicated that the problem occurred at the time the analog source (whether a film shown on cable or a film transferred to DVD) was converted to digital, and there weren't enough black values available to transfer the full range of blacks in the analog original, so you see the analog-to-digital converter making switches back and forth from one specific black value to another over large areas of the screen, creating that "moving cloud" effect. Does this make sense, or is it BS??

This problem began when I got a 3910 to connect to my Toshiba plasma set. It didn't happen with another model of DVD player, and it never happens with a cable source.
When I'm watching an image that has either letterboxing on the top & bottom, or vertical pillars from watching a 4:3 image in "squeeze mode," the color of the letterboxes will shift from the black to dark green or a lighter gray and back to black, seeming to depend on what's happening in the image that's being displayed. This is kind of distracting. I have the 3910's letterboxes set to display at the darkest setting.
Anyone else see this? Any remedies?

This problem began when I got a 3910 to connect to my Toshiba plasma set. It didn't happen with another model of DVD player, and it never happens with a cable source.
When I'm watching an image that has either letterboxing on the top & bottom, or vertical pillars from watching a 4:3 image in "squeeze mode," the color of the letterboxes will shift from the black to dark green or a lighter gray and back to black, seeming to depend on what's happening in the image that's being displayed. This is kind of distracting. I have the 3910's letterboxes set to display at the darkest setting.
Anyone else see this? Any remedies?
Doesn't sound like a 3910 problem.

I think the "video" selection tells your 3910 to treat the DVD-A disc as a DVD-Video and offer up only DD/DTS. The "audio" selection is the correct one for treating a DVD-A as a DVD-A. But if you are not properly connected, you would get the operation that you described in your first post on this issue.

after re-reading you original post, I'm now thinking that you've never heard DVD-A. Wow, are you ever in for a jaw-dropping experience!


Ok, I'll go to...

"Check Tom Grooms' post #6552 for connections that will allow you to hear the real reason we buy DVD-A material."

and let you know what I find.

What I am skeptical about is the ability to play back the DVD-A without seeing the video portion cause the menu system in these disks is a PITA. Perhaps if I set things up right, it will be easier, I'll report back.

Anyone own a Denon 3910 mated with a SXRD?

I'm not always impressed on how DVDs look played on the 3910 via HDMI to my (calibrated) SXRD.

I'm not sure if its poorly mastered DVDs or how the 3910 interacts with the SXRD but on darker scenes (like during Superman Returns) I see weird video noise (like a moving green cloud or could be purple) that only occurs during the darkest of scenes.

Not all DVDs exhibit this anomaly so I think it may be the way some DVDs are transferred and the fact that the SXRD is very unforgiving when it comes to SD.

I'll be getting a XBOX HD-DVD player for Xmas so I will soon find out if a HD player eliminates the video noise problem.

But its kinda of disappointing to have paid big $$$ on the Denon and the SXRD and to see this awful video problem on many DVDs.

I have a Qualia006, I've seen what you mention, and to reduce/solve, I've set up Memory 1 (M1) with a -2 contrast. That removes the shadow that you'll see in the blacks from previous light colored images. Quite anoying, but all players have some issue, and I've tried more that I care to have.

Ok, I'll go to...

"Check Tom Grooms' post #6552 for connections that will allow you to hear the real reason we buy DVD-A material."

and let you know what I find.

What I am skeptical about is the ability to play back the DVD-A without seeing the video portion cause the menu system in these disks is a PITA. Perhaps if I set things up right, it will be easier, I'll report back.
You will not see the DVD-A's DVD-Video, but rather you will see the video associated with the DVD-Audio tracks. I just set my 2901 to "AUDIO" and popped in Reptile DVD-A. On my screen I now see the "Surround Playlist", "Stereo Playlist", "Biography" and "Credits" options. Selecting the first one brings up the track titles.

You will not see the DVD-A's DVD-Video, but rather you will see the video associated with the DVD-Audio tracks. I just set my 2901 to "AUDIO" and popped in Reptile DVD-A. On my screen I now see the "Surround Playlist", "Stereo Playlist", "Biography" and "Credits" options. Selecting the first one brings up the track titles.

Try that with the Eagles - Hotel California, or Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms, and tell me if Video is produced. For me it was not, and therefore impossible to navigate.

I have a 3910 and a Toshiba 720p plasma set, and I see the same thing on certain DVD's as well as certain HDTV cable programs. Many people own the DVD of Godfather II, so I'll mention that this happens in various dark areas of scenes, such as dark pieces of clothing, areas in shadow, etc. And it's a darkly photographed film in many places, so there is a lot of it. This problem also shows up in many sources when a scene fades to black.

I don't know if the problem is related to the display I have, or to the 3910. A cable tech indicated that the problem occurred at the time the analog source (whether a film shown on cable or a film transferred to DVD) was converted to digital, and there weren't enough black values available to transfer the full range of blacks in the analog original, so you see the analog-to-digital converter making switches back and forth from one specific black value to another over large areas of the screen, creating that "moving cloud" effect. Does this make sense, or is it BS??
This sounds like macroblocking which can be a problem with certain makes of plasmas when used in conjunction with certain models of DVD players. Have you had the plasma calibrated?

Try that with the Eagles - Hotel California, or Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms, and tell me if Video is produced. For me it was not, and therefore impossible to navigate.
Is BIA even available as a DVD-A? I've only heard of the SA-CD, and SA-CD's don't have video.

Try that with the Eagles - Hotel California, or Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms, and tell me if Video is produced. For me it was not, and therefore impossible to navigate.
No joy. I don't have Bros In Arms (yet!) and I can't FIND my Hotel Ca. :(

Any others that don't "work?"

Is BIA even available as a DVD-A? I've only heard of the SA-CD, and SA-CD's don't have video.

I just confirmed...

With DVD-A, disks Eagles - Hotel California and Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms...

Setup->Etc->Player Mode->

- Set to Audio, you will not see the menu system of the disk. For Eagles and Dire Straits above, the minute the disk is loaded, the video cuts out. Default audio playback for dire straits is 5.1.
- Set to Video, you will and will therefore be able to select the audio playback that your looking for.

Seems that this setting is for use with CD and SCAD only (maybe mp3's cds as well). If your using DVD's, this needs to be set to Video unless you can navigate blind. It cuts the entire video processing system. Ok for CD and SCAD. Not so good for my issue.

Per the manual... Page 45...

Audio (Factory Defaul) - Set this to play DVD Audio signals as such.
Video - Set this to play the DVD Video contents included on a DVD Audio Disc.

Setting to Audio prevents zooming when pausing playback of video, not good on all occasions... :)

Question is, does this setting take anything way from the playback of the audio? Kinda tough to navigate blind.


The other things I have are in the Audio Setup Menu. I have the following settings (and I have both Toslink and 5.1 analog connections from 3910 to Pre-Amp):

Audio Channel - Multi
Digital Output - Normal
LPCM - OFF
Source Direct - ON
Compression - OFF
SCAD Filter - 100 (using Rocket ERT's, but doubt that I'll hear/feel any difference between 50 and 100 settings if the pre can even deal with the range).

This sounds like macroblocking which can be a problem with certain makes of plasmas when used in conjunction with certain models of DVD players. Have you had the plasma calibrated?

The problem shows up on some cable TV shows, e.g., The Sopranos viewed on HBO-HD via cable box. In Googling "macroblocking," it seems that some people are using this term to refer to MPEG-2 compression artifacts that are noticeable in rapidly moving objects, an effect that I've seen sometimes. Some people say that this is the same thing I've described in my original post, while other people claim that macroblocking is NOT the same thing as the apparent "pixelation" of dark areas as a program fades out. Some people blame this on the Faroudja 2301 chip used in the Denon 3910, while other people say that this chip is relatively free from macroblocking. This chip is, if I'm right, out of the circuit if I'm connecting to my TV via HDMI. All I know is that the problem shows up with either HDMI or component connection to the TV, but it's more obvious with HDMI because the image is sharper.

I have the AVIA disc and calibrated the plasma using it. What adjustments would relate to this problem? Any help would be appreciated.

Brothers in Arms is available as a DualDisc with a DVD-A side. I have it - it sounds phenomenal in high-resolution surround.

Mike

Brothers in Arms is available as a DualDisc with a DVD-A side. I have it - it sounds phenomenal in high-resolution surround.

Mike

Yea, that's what I'm using for this test, and it does sound awsome. Issue is that you still need the player set to Setup->Etc->Player Mode->Video to see what your selecting on the disk... I did not have that set, and therefore got fustrated in trying to select the playback format.

The problem shows up on some cable TV shows, e.g., The Sopranos viewed on HBO-HD via cable box. In Googling "macroblocking," it seems that some people are using this term to refer to MPEG-2 compression artifacts that are noticeable in rapidly moving objects, an effect that I've seen sometimes. Some people say that this is the same thing I've described in my original post, while other people claim that macroblocking is NOT the same thing as the apparent "pixelation" of dark areas as a program fades out. Some people blame this on the Faroudja 2301 chip used in the Denon 3910, while other people say that this chip is relatively free from macroblocking. This chip is, if I'm right, out of the circuit if I'm connecting to my TV via HDMI. All I know is that the problem shows up with either HDMI or component connection to the TV, but it's more obvious with HDMI because the image is sharper.

I have the AVIA disc and calibrated the plasma using it. What adjustments would relate to this problem? Any help would be appreciated.
The 2301 is not immune to the problem. Denon took a lot of effort to reduce the problem with the 3910, but I don't think it was completely eliminated. I would check in the Toshiba forum for you display and see what others have done with their setups. It will probably require massaging the contrast and brightness settings on your display to minimize or remove the MB.

Does the 3910 do 480i over component? Try that and see if the MB goes away, if so, then it's the 2301 that's causing the problem.

The problem shows up on some cable TV shows, e.g., The Sopranos viewed on HBO-HD via cable box. In Googling "macroblocking," it seems that some people are using this term to refer to MPEG-2 compression artifacts that are noticeable in rapidly moving objects, an effect that I've seen sometimes. Some people say that this is the same thing I've described in my original post, while other people claim that macroblocking is NOT the same thing as the apparent "pixelation" of dark areas as a program fades out. Some people blame this on the Faroudja 2301 chip used in the Denon 3910, while other people say that this chip is relatively free from macroblocking. This chip is, if I'm right, out of the circuit if I'm connecting to my TV via HDMI. All I know is that the problem shows up with either HDMI or component connection to the TV, but it's more obvious with HDMI because the image is sharper.

I have the AVIA disc and calibrated the plasma using it. What adjustments would relate to this problem? Any help would be appreciated.

Here goes, this is what I have found.

Your going to have to adjust and find the best combination between the following:

Setup->Digital Interface Setup->HDMI Black Level
(On the Remote) Picture adjust->M1->Tab 1->Contrast
(On the Remote) HDMI/DVI Select->HDMI Y Cb Cr (or you could try the others but this is the one that I use.

Bottom line, find the combination that works best for you. Know that I have tried about 4 different players, and all have something that I did not like, but this player has the most adjustments to compensate, while others, what you get is what you get...



Try turning down the contrast in the 3190 "Picture Adjust" settings. Mine is at -2, but it will help if you adjust these settings in conjunction to what you choose in the Setup menu to send through the HDMI cable.

Yea, that's what I'm using for this test, and it does sound awsome. Issue is that you still need the player set to Setup->Etc->Player Mode->Video to see what your selecting on the disk... I did not have that set, and therefore got fustrated in trying to select the playback format.
The "video" setting gets you the standard 5.1 Dolby Digital audio. This is not what DVD-A is all about. Granted, discs without the ability to select songs seems so primitive, but I don't have those discs to look at and tell whether it's them or your player.

The "video" setting gets you the standard 5.1 Dolby Digital audio. This is not what DVD-A is all about. Granted, discs without the ability to select songs seems so primitive, but I don't have those discs to look at and tell whether it's them or your player.

Pepar, please take this in the best of ways, cause I appreciate the help, I'm just struggling to get this ironed out... but based on what are you making the statement, that selecting "Video" for that Setup option, is giving me 5.1 DD at best, no better?

Using Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms:
- When I select Video, that allows me to navigate the Top Menu options of the Disk. (Without it, the video feed is cut at the player and I can not select the output format).
- Once Video is enabled, from there I can select Stereo 48kHz/24bit PCM -or- 5.1 Surround Dolby Digital.
- Choosing Stereo 48kHz/24bit PCM, playback is made through the 5.1 audio out connections to the pre-amp, but only two channels are active.

After all that, what makes you say that the Setup option of Audio or Video is anything more then an on off switch for the video circutry when playing a DVD-A disk (as only a DVD would pose this question to the player cause there's no video on the CD or SCAD)?

I can do the same by manually selecting the "Pure Direct" mode that i've set up to turn off Digital, Video and Display, yet still have the ability to navigate the DVD-A disk.

I have a 3910 and a Toshiba 720p plasma set, and I see the same thing on certain DVD's as well as certain HDTV cable programs. Many people own the DVD of Godfather II, so I'll mention that this happens in various dark areas of scenes, such as dark pieces of clothing, areas in shadow, etc. And it's a darkly photographed film in many places, so there is a lot of it. This problem also shows up in many sources when a scene fades to black.

I don't know if the problem is related to the display I have, or to the 3910. A cable tech indicated that the problem occurred at the time the analog source (whether a film shown on cable or a film transferred to DVD) was converted to digital, and there weren't enough black values available to transfer the full range of blacks in the analog original, so you see the analog-to-digital converter making switches back and forth from one specific black value to another over large areas of the screen, creating that "moving cloud" effect. Does this make sense, or is it BS??

yep, thats what it looks like at times, a "moving cloud" usually green in appearance but if I alter some settings the cloud can take on a "purple" look.

It doesn't happen all the time so I know its not the SXRD or even the 3910 but it seems to happen with poorly mastered DVDs or TV shows.

Superman Returns is a prime example of a poor DVD that really brings out the "cloud".

When my SXRD and my 3910 were ISF calibrated, the calibrator used the DVD "Seabiscuit" as his demo material and he thought the picture looked fine on the SXRD. And it did. So this problem is very software dependant.

I just hope their would be a magical fix (maybe some setting is off) but it does seem bringing down the contrast on the 3910 helps in M1.

Once again not all DVDs exhibit this effect or HD TV shows shown on my Verizon FIOS HD cable box.
But when it shows up it is ugly to me.

Pepar, please take this in the best of ways, cause I appreciate the help, I'm just struggling to get this ironed out... but based on what are you making the statement, that selecting "Video" for that Setup option, is giving me 5.1 DD at best, no better?
10-4.

Ummm, now that I read further - maybe . . .

48kHz/24-bit audio IS a DVD-A format, but my understanding is that selecting "video" gets one the DVD-Video-compatible tracks.


Even more testing has resulting in this.

Eagles Hotel California

Setup->Etc->Player Mode->Audio - will not play back any video picture (manual confirms this) and after hitting play twice, I get a P.PCM 5.1 DVD Audio signal based on the front display of the 3910. I hear 5 channels.

Setup->Etc->Player Mode->Video, you can select DD playlist or DTS playlist, nothing else.



Dire Straits Brothers in Arms

Setup->Etc->Player Mode->Audio - will not play back any video picture (manual confirms this) and after hitting play twice, I get a P.PCM 5.1 DVD Audio signal based on the front display of the 3910. I hear 5 channels.

Setup->Etc->Player Mode->Video will allow me to make two choices.
Stereo 48kHz/24bit PCM - Resulting in L.PCM 2 channels.
5.1 Dolby Digital - Resulting in DD symbol and 5.1 channels shown.


Depeche Mode Violator and Music for the Masses

Setup->Etc->Player Mode->Audio Apparently the Depeche Mode DVDs are just that. DVDs with the options below.

Setup->Etc->Player Mode->Video will allow me to make the following choices.
PCM Stereo - Resulting in L.PCM 2 channels.
DD 5.1 Surround - Resulting in DD symbol and 5.1 channels shown.
DTS 5.1 96/24 - Resulting in DTS 96/24 and 5.1 channels shown (if your a fan, this is a must have).


With neither the Eagles nor Dire Straits can I get 2 channel with the Setup->Etc->Player Mode->Audio it's always 5.1.

Am I nuts or are others seeing this as well?
I assume that P.PCM is what I'm looking for, correct?

I should have written down what "Groups" I was being taken to in each test, but maybe next time...

Even more testing has resulting in this.

Eagles Hotel California

Setup->Etc->Player Mode->Audio - will not play back any video picture (manual confirms this) and after hitting play twice, I get a P.PCM 5.1 DVD Audio signal based on the front display of the 3910. I hear 5 channels.

Setup->Etc->Player Mode->Video, you can select DD playlist or DTS playlist, nothing else.
Sounds like the correct operation.


Dire Straits Brothers in Arms

Setup->Etc->Player Mode->Audio - will not play back any video picture (manual confirms this) and after hitting play twice, I get a P.PCM 5.1 DVD Audio signal based on the front display of the 3910. I hear 5 channels.

Setup->Etc->Player Mode->Video will allow me to make two choices.
Stereo 48kHz/24bit PCM - Resulting in L.PCM 2 channels.
5.1 Dolby Digital - Resulting in DD symbol and 5.1 channels shown.
Strange that you get any 48kHz/24-bit audio, but that the "audio" choice gets you 5.1 channels of hi-res audio suggests that there's more to be had.

Depeche Mode Violator and Music for the Masses

Setup->Etc->Player Mode->Audio Apparently the Depeche Mode DVDs are just that. DVDs with the options below.

Setup->Etc->Player Mode->Video will allow me to make the following choices.
PCM Stereo - Resulting in L.PCM 2 channels.
DD 5.1 Surround - Resulting in DD symbol and 5.1 channels shown.
DTS 5.1 - Resulting in DTS and 5.1 channels shown (if your a fan, this is a must have).
Crippled DVD-A?

Crippled DVD-A?

No, just me thinking that DM put out DVD-A disks. Their attraction was the DTS 96/24 anyways, and worth it to me. Thanks for the time...!

BTW, with your external drive for the 8300, is there a way to make that drive spin down when the 8300 HDD spins down? Split the power?

Sounds like the correct operation.



Strange that you get any 48kHz/24-bit audio, but that the "audio" choice gets you 5.1 channels of hi-res audio suggests that there's more to be had.


Crippled DVD-A?

Been reading the thread about DVD audio menus..... I had this problem when I first got my 3910.... some disc would not display the menu, but this only occurred with the HDMI connection... switched it to s-vid and I could view the menus..... Also I upgraded the firmware on the 3910 and it fixed the problems with some menus over the HDMI connection. What connection are you using?

Also PURE DIRECT shuts off parts of the processor... I think the highest setting shuts off the video section. make sure that this setting is correct.

Does everyone use their Denon Link connection assuming you also have a Denon reciever. This has been a god send.

Does everyone use their Denon Link connection assuming you also have a Denon reciever. This has been a god send.

Yes, I use the DL3.

Does everyone use their Denon Link connection assuming you also have a Denon reciever. This has been a god send.

I've come to always use it, even though I also have 5.1 analog connections back there also. Following Denon's recommendations, it's so automatic and after spending a lot of time balancing the channels and achieving the best possible frequency response in my room, I couldn't be happier, and I now hesitate to mess with it any more.

I love the DL3 especially because I listen to alot of SACDs and DVDAs. Its neat how the DL3 knows exactly what disc is in the 3910 and sets the reciever instantly.

I'm using the 1394 connection instead of DL3. Not sure why I picked that; it was just the first connection I made. The only drawback I've found is that every once in a while, if I don't power the receiver up first and wait a few seconds before powering up the 3910, the two don't synch and I don't get any audio. A quick power cycle on the 3910 fixes this. I've never had the 1394 drop a connection once it is established. Does DL3 exhibit similar behavior?

Mike

nope, the DL3 is flawless. The main reason why I went with the Denon's. Less cables and more intuitive.

yep, thats what it looks like at times, a "moving cloud" usually green in appearance but if I alter some settings the cloud can take on a "purple" look.

It doesn't happen all the time so I know its not the SXRD or even the 3910 but it seems to happen with poorly mastered DVDs or TV shows.

Superman Returns is a prime example of a poor DVD that really brings out the "cloud".

When my SXRD and my 3910 were ISF calibrated, the calibrator used the DVD "Seabiscuit" as his demo material and he thought the picture looked fine on the SXRD. And it did. So this problem is very software dependant.

I just hope their would be a magical fix (maybe some setting is off) but it does seem bringing down the contrast on the 3910 helps in M1.

Once again not all DVDs exhibit this effect or HD TV shows shown on my Verizon FIOS HD cable box.
But when it shows up it is ugly to me.

Quite funny that you guys are mentioning this problem. I just went to my local AV dealer last weekend discribing this same problem. Its like a green cloud around lettering. Prime example is Mission Impossible III when they are rolling the name credits and the background is black. The lettering has a strong green digital cloud around it. I also notice it during dark scenes. Very noticable on the top and bottom of the letterbox during them.

3910 w/latest firmware connected via HDMI to Hitachi 70vx915

I have tried to "calibrate" the settings enough to get out as much as possible. Just one of those things that once you notice it, you are always looking for it!

I am looking at this LCD (SHARP LC-46D62U), and am wondering if anybody is using this with their 3910? How is the PQ with this combo? any macroblocking or other problems?

I love the DL3 especially because I listen to alot of SACDs and DVDAs. Its neat how the DL3 knows exactly what disc is in the 3910 and sets the reciever instantly.

I also listen to a lot of SACDs and DVD-As (Denon 4306-Denon DVD2200, analog cables). Now I am upgrading to the used Denon DVD-3910 and would like to use DL3, but this thing came without a cable.
Where can I purchase Denon Link cable ? People at Denon and at the dealer's say it's just ordinary Ethernet Cat5 straight-through cable. But some other Forum's opinions say it's not, it has to be specially shielded, with the metal (vs plastic) connectors.
So, which is true ? Can anybody shed the light on it, please ?

Cat5 is fine. Digital bits are digital bits, so if it works for computer networks it works for DL3. Only potential issue I could see would be interference from the electronics in the rack, but I have had no problems there, and the Denon supplied cable appears to be standard cat5.

Allen

Finally i found a place where i might get some help. I have had my 3910 for about a year and Im not really great at tweeking settings ( fear factor). I burn(copy) movies
and i can play them back on all my cheapers dvd players ( old toshiba, denon 900?5 or 6 years old) but they will not play on my 3910. I have it hooked up to the 4806 Denon reciever(awsome power) and the Ben Q PE7700 projector via HDMI. i have downloaded the firmware updates. Rented movies are fine!!!!!!! :confused: :confused:

Please help.

Finally i found a place where i might get some help. I have had my 3910 for about a year and Im not really great at tweeking settings ( fear factor). I burn(copy) movies
and i can play them back on all my cheapers dvd players ( old toshiba, denon 900?5 or 6 years old) but they will not play on my 3910. I have it hooked up to the 4806 Denon reciever(awsome power) and the Ben Q PE7700 projector via HDMI. i have downloaded the firmware updates. Rented movies are fine!!!!!!! :confused: :confused:

Please help.

There's an anti bootleg feature built into the 3910. Netflix and Blockbuster teamed up with Denon to try and stop people who rent and rip. :D :D



It's probably your choice of DVD blanks. Keep trying different brands until you find one that works.

There's an anti bootleg feature built into the 3910. Netflix and Blockbuster teamed up with Denon to try and stop people who rent and rip. :D :D



It's probably your choice of DVD blanks. Keep trying different brands until you find one that works.

Is this a feature of DenonLink or HDMI? Have you tried it through a component cable? Or does the DVD not load at all?

See the BFGrins? He's kidding. :rolleyes:

Is there any downloadable software to disable the antibootleg feature??? Can it be disabled??

Finally i found a place where i might get some help. I have had my 3910 for about a year and Im not really great at tweeking settings ( fear factor). I burn(copy) movies
and i can play them back on all my cheapers dvd players ( old toshiba, denon 900?5 or 6 years old) but they will not play on my 3910. I have it hooked up to the 4806 Denon reciever(awsome power) and the Ben Q PE7700 projector via HDMI. i have downloaded the firmware updates. Rented movies are fine!!!!!!! :confused: :confused:

Please help.

Try buying a couple of Verbatim -R blanks and burn them at the slowest speed (4x) to start with.

I’ve had a 3910 since right around when it was released. I spent a ton of time setting it up then, was fairly happy with the picture, then just left it alone. I’m back into tweaking mode, so I was hoping for some help with some nagging questions. I think this is the place.

Now that I have an HD DVD player too, I want to get the colors on the 3910 to be more accurate. I have a couple movies in both formats to help in the calibration. To get a reasonable looking picture originally, I had to tweak the M1 settings quite a bit. I’m running through HDMI set to RGB. The contrast and brightness are good, but there is a dominant red to the skin tones. I played around with everything except the G0-G9 settings. Those look really complicated, so I was hoping for a shortcut if anyone had one.

Also, my pure direct mode seems wacked. I have never had a front display, other than for a second or so after I press a button on the unit or certain remote buttons. I looks like this is adjustable (page 47 of the manual) by the pure direct memory button on the remote. However, I get nothing on the screen at all when I press this button. I’m guessing my display and video are set to OFF, but I can’t get in to make the change.

I did the firmware upgrade from 2005.

Any help would be appreciated.

Chris

Finally i found a place where i might get some help. I have had my 3910 for about a year and Im not really great at tweeking settings ( fear factor). I burn(copy) movies
and i can play them back on all my cheapers dvd players ( old toshiba, denon 900?5 or 6 years old) but they will not play on my 3910. I have it hooked up to the 4806 Denon reciever(awsome power) and the Ben Q PE7700 projector via HDMI. i have downloaded the firmware updates. Rented movies are fine!!!!!!! :confused: :confused:

Please help.


Try Tayo Yuden DVD -R media. They are some of best I've found. Also make sure you don't put any labels on the media, this 3910 drive is extreemely sensitive to balance problems. If you're going to need labeling I would advise you to write the title on the media with a sharpie. As far as copy protection, it would surface when you attempt to read the media for the most part. Once you have read the media 99 times out of 100, what you write will play fine.
Remember pirating movies is a crime. :eek:

SC

Hi all,

I have a 3910 and just purchased a 4306 receiver. However I can't get the Denon Link to activate on the 3910, meaning under the Digital Interface setup I don't have the option to enable or turn on Denon Link (it's grayed out so can't be selected). I have upgraded the firmware for the 3910 that added Denon Link III. Just wondering if there is anything glaring I'm overlooking.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Rick

I currently have the DVD-2910 and am thinking of upgrading to the 3910 because of the low prices. Will I notice an appreciable increase in audio quality? My buget won't allow going to the 3930 at the moment (should I wait and buy it later?). I listen to SACD and DVD-Audio almost exclusively. Many thanks for any feedback!

AVR-4306
Rockets 760/200/300
SVS sub
Toshiba HD player

Hi all,

I have a 3910 and just purchased a 4306 receiver. However I can't get the Denon Link to activate on the 3910, meaning under the Digital Interface setup I don't have the option to enable or turn on Denon Link (it's grayed out so can't be selected). I have upgraded the firmware for the 3910 that added Denon Link III. Just wondering if there is anything glaring I'm overlooking.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Rick

Do you have a disc in the tray? Make sure it's empty when changing settings.

Hi all,

I have a 3910 and just purchased a 4306 receiver. However I can't get the Denon Link to activate on the 3910, meaning under the Digital Interface setup I don't have the option to enable or turn on Denon Link (it's grayed out so can't be selected). I have upgraded the firmware for the 3910 that added Denon Link III. Just wondering if there is anything glaring I'm overlooking.
Rick

First, you have to assign DenonLink to the DVD input using the 4306's setup screens. Once that's done, you can turn on the 3910 and the DenonLink option won't be grayed out.

1. When playing back red book cd's, what settings should I choose to get the best sound quality with the least processing through either the 2-channel analog or the front channels of the 5.1 analog outputs? And if the only processing I want in the 3910 is bass management (specifically, setting a crossover at 80 Hz), what other processing features am I bringing into play by using bass management?

2. Can you also answer the same question with respect to SACD's, although I would want to use 5.1 playback for most of them rather than front-only.

3. What settings should I make on the 3910 to play back DSD-recorded SACD's without converting the signal to PCM?

4. Any information concerning audible differences that you've noted in the various SOURCE DIRECT and PURE DIRECT settings on the 3910 would be appreciated.

Thanks!

The same questions which I wondered myself before buying 3910 :) Except X-over which I have set to 40hz.

1. Crossovers, delays, levels - is there any other processing if using 5.1 analog output? SRS-surround is only used on 2-channel mode. Also downmixing is not used. I don't think there are any other processing. Oh, you have to use the 5.1 analog outputs - not the 2-channel analog out - to get the bass management with the front channels - I tested that a couple of days ago. And don't forget to turn on the 'bass enhancer' (It's just 'master' on/off for the subwoofer).

2&3. If using bass management with SACD then the DSD in converted into PCM. So it's either BM or DSD. 'SOURCE DIRECT': If you put that 'on' then you'll bypass processing/conversion - including bass management. If thinking about SACD related settings then there is the 'sacd filter' in which you can choose between 50/100khz.

4. Haven't yet listened if I can notice any difference when turning off digital outputs / video outputs / player display (='PURE DIRECT'). Maybe I have to test myself some day...

Hey Guys, I been having a problem with my new James Bond UE disc & couldn't find much of a solution but hears the problem. On the Special feature disc if your play is not a Region 1 player you get the Japanese menu with Japanese subtitles but english sound. I did the changed my player using the remote to region free but I was wondering if there is a way to change it back to region 1 again.

Also on the burned media topic I have tried a few different types of dvd-r & dvr+r DL with mostly great success. I have used the TDK, FUJIFILM, Verbatium with good success & limited success with the maxell . The one brand I don't like is the Memorex disc but maybe it's just may LG burner not liken them.

I did the changed my player using the remote to region free but I was wondering if there is a way to change it back to region 1 again.


You should be able to change it back using the remote with the same steps you used to make it region free.

Thanks for your answers! I just had a couple of follow-up questions:
2&3. If using bass management with SACD then the DSD in converted into PCM. So it's either BM or DSD.

How much processing is happening to the 2-channel analog outputs if I am using bass management on the 5.1 analog outputs. In other words, in that situation, is DSD-to-PCM conversion taking place on the 5.1 outputs, but NOT on the 2-channel analog outputs? Or is DSD-to-PCM conversion taking place on both sets of outputs, and bass management is taking place only on the 5.1 outputs?

The manual says you have to use the 'SOURCE DIRECT' for DSD. And that means you can't use BM. So my guess would be that the 2-channel output is converted to PCM if using BM on the 5.1 -outputs. But... who can be 100% sure of this?

I have just bought a used 3910, what will give me the best possible picture on my Panasonic PT-AX100 projector Component or HDMI?
Anyone with the same setup?
I have a fairly good component cable right now, and I know that this projector does a quite good job of upconverting, so is it worth it to order a HDMI cable :confused:

I have just bought a used 3910, what will give me the best possible picture on my Panasonic PT-AX100 projector Component or HDMI?
Anyone with the same setup?
I have a fairly good component cable right now, and I know that this projector does a quite good job of upconverting, so is it worth it to order a HDMI cable :confused:
I would try both HDMI/DVI and component and see which looked better to me.

My previous set up was component to the TV and coax to the receiver. Every thing played just fine with this set up. I just purchased a new TV that has HDMI so now my set up is HDMI to the TV and coax to the receiver all DVD's play just fine, but with this set up some of my CD's will not play while others will. Anyone have any experience with this issue?

Jstenuf,
Did your 3910 play all your CDs OK before you changed your setup, i.e. did you try out all your CDs? I guess I'm wondering whether you did a thorough check initially, and confirmed that EVERYTHING played Ok initially, but not now. Maybe it's not your setup, but rather your 3910.

When I bought my first 3910, it wouldn't play many of my CDs that I had burned myself (8x), but played all commercial CDs. I exchanged the 3910, and the 2nd one plays all my CDs, except that it has audio dropouts on many of the last songs on my CDs (burned at 8x). I don't have any problem with CDs burned at 4x.

By the way, my Denon 1600 has no problem playing ANYTHING, so it's somewhat disappointing that my 3910 is more finicky than my 1600.

--Ernie

I tried some of the ones that worked okay before the set up change and they do not work now. All of the CD's are commercial.


Jstenuf,
Did your 3910 play all your CDs OK before you changed your setup, i.e. did you try out all your CDs? I guess I'm wondering whether you did a thorough check initially, and confirmed that EVERYTHING played Ok initially, but not now. Maybe it's not your setup, but rather your 3910.

When I bought my first 3910, it wouldn't play many of my CDs that I had burned myself (8x), but played all commercial CDs. I exchanged the 3910, and the 2nd one plays all my CDs, except that it has audio dropouts on many of the last songs on my CDs (burned at 8x). I don't have any problem with CDs burned at 4x.

By the way, my Denon 1600 has no problem playing ANYTHING, so it's somewhat disappointing that my 3910 is more finicky than my 1600.

--Ernie

I've searched and read as much as possible and couldn't find the exact answer, although many replys come close.....what a wonderful thread!

Anyhow, here is the problem I hope someone can help.

Setup:
The 3910 and a Direct TV Sat box are connected to a Gefen 2x2 switch via HDMI cables, Video out goes to a projector (no video problems whatsoever) and the audio off the HDMI switch goes to a Denon 4802 receiver via an optical cable. The 3910 audio is set to MULTI.

Problem: While watching a DVD, then pausing, switch to SAT to watch for a bit, then back to the DVD, there is no sound, but there is video. Last night, anything that momentarily interrupted the DVD audio, even switching between menus on the DVD caused no audio. I was able to get the audio back by going to the 3910 audio menu and selecting MULTI again.

Has anyone had a similar problem? Perhaps I have something wrong in the set-up?

Thank You!

Rich

Hi all. I recently purchased a DVD-3910 (I originally got the new dvd-2930 but it was defective and wouldn't play dvd-a or sacd). I found the 3910 for the same price as the 2930, so I went with it.

I was aware of the potential macroblocking problems with my display (a JVC HD-ILA - HD56G786). Last night I put in "Corpse Bride" and the beginning, which shows the logo (WB logo if I remember right), with the clouds in the background which fades out to black - it was like watching a game of tetris. lots of blocks which fizzled and shimmered and faded away. It was ugly. Looked like bad digital compression or something.

I have not calibrated yet, but will. My settings were on 720p through HDMI, YCbCr for this initial evaluation. Tesing 1080i showed no difference (but 480p did - more later)

But, aside from that the picture looked AMAZING. So clear and detailed. The part at the beginning when he's writing and there's a jar of ink, you could see the ink in the jar and it looked so real. But, the macroblocking makes me want to puke.

Here's what's confusing me - when I switch to 480p the macroblocking almost disappears. Its at a level I can deal with. But, the image is much darker and the detail in the jar of ink was gone - the jar looked like almost a solid black jar of ink, whereas on 720p I could see the ink level inside the jar and so much more detail.

The 720p setting looks a little more lighter and much softer, so maybe that's all it is. Maybe if I calibrate the contrast / color / brightness the detail will be there - I don't know.

Any idea where I should go from here? My TV scales everything it gets (even 720p and 1080i) to 720p - I can't disable that. Is there some settings I can play with to tone down the MB? What is the darkness I'm seeing at 480p vs 720p? Is that darkness what's hiding the detail?

Just looking for a place to start. I'm sure someone here has this TV / DVD combination. I can always send it back and get the 2930, but the 3910 should have better sound (which is what I prioritize).

Any help appreciated.

Thanks,

Upgraded recently to my Denon 4306/3910 combo and my TV monitor is PIONEER plasma 1080i. The setup is simple: 2 HDMI cables between player->receiver->TV, 1 DL3 cable for audio. Another HDMI cable connects STB SA 8300HD and 4306 which finally works fine (thanks to the recent COX firmware upload).

I am very satisfied with the audio :D , now is the time to tweak some video signals (which I don't know much about). So, here come my questions to the more experienced users:
1) Since the max signal accepted by plasma is 1080i should I choose INTERLACED vs. PROGRESSIVE in my 3910 video output format (thus avoiding de-interlacing)?
Does it make difference at all (I could not notice) ?
2) Assuming I choose 1080i as the resolution output from 3910, it should not make difference if I choose 1080i or THROUGH as the "HDMI video out" in my 4306, right? I think -in either case plasma should get the 1080i signal.
3)When I choose 1080i as the HDMI out, no matter what comes as the source , should come out as the 1080i signal, right ? So the TV should not do any more processing/deinterlacing/scaling, correct ?
This is how I think it should work, BUT...
4) When use I the SA8300HD/4306/PIO connection, the signal should be upconverted in my 4306, right ? (I choose "AUTO- HDMI/DVI" in the STB's output). But when I hit the Display button on my TV's remote, it shows me the native reoslutions (480i, 720p, 1080i) depending on the station's signal. :confused:
I though they ALL should have been upgraded tp 1080i.
So, what's going on here, is my 4306's upconverter not working or am I missing something ? :eek:
5) Also, can the RIVA calibration disc, which is on its way to me, really help me with the issues above ?
6) Lastly, there'e a lot controversies (this Forum included) regarding issue of "scaling" done by 4306. I could not find a word in the manual, the product sheets advertise it, but the Denon rep I talked to says that the only Denon receiver which does that is 4806CI. Any comments ? :confused:

Sorry for the long post ;) - I put it also in the 4306 thread ...

OK, I got a "deal" on a used 3910. It was working fine. Then today I started my Big Project of switching out my old 4805 to a new 5805CI (egads, this thing is ridiculous). As part of that, I thought I'd use an HDMI cable I had to connect the 3910 for video instead of the component connection I had been using. Use Denon Link III for all the audio. OK, first thing I finally figured out was that when you set HDMI as video input for DVD, it expects audio over same connection, so I took the cable off, went back to component for video and DL III for audio.

All of a sudden, no matter what disc (DVD, DVD audio, CD, SACD, etc.), the 3910 spends its typically long time saying "disc loading", then stops and displays on the 3910 "00:00:00" or similar. I even tried the reset procedure and going back and turning on DL III and turned off HDMI/DVI on 3910. Same thing, no matter what disc I put in. It does seem to crank away longer on some discs than others, but in the end, same result. Also, when the "00:00:00" display is on, if I hit Play or any other button on the player, I get the crossed-out-cirle (bad keystroke) symbol displayed on the video in upper-left corner, no matter what key I hit on player. Setup via remote works fine, but play and other keys produce same negative result. Video is working, BTW, can see setup menus, etc., everything just fine. DL III link also shows active both on 3910 and 5805CI via their identifiers lighting up. But at this point, Big Issue seems to be the 3910 just not PLAYING ANYTHING!

I'm suspecting a "NASA failure" (coincidental failure(s)) where my 3910 has partially crapped out just as I happened to install the 5805CI. But it seems like a pretty incredible coincidence. So I took another DVD player, hooked it up to same components, used COAX digital for audio, a voila, no problems (except it's going to kill me if I have to hook up those 5 cables again just to get SACD audio after getting all multi-channel audio over DL III for so long).

So, any ideas on this weird behavior of the 3910? Any other "unknown resets" or some bizarre secret I need to know to hook it up to 5805CI? I've come across weird Denon AVR config issues before, but this time, it actually seems to be the 3910 unit. I'm wondering if a "DVD player cleaner" disc deal might clean the laser head and fix it, would also like insights into those if anyone has rec's on best ones (I have a little CD one with some "hairs" on it that's supposed to clean the laser, but I'm not entirely convinced).

TIA very much, I'm four hours into this project and having to fall back on my old DVD player (which still looks fantastic upscaled via the 5805, BTW). Also, if someone comes up with a great / unusual solution, I will send you a treat of some kind from my vast collection of audiophilia wares (custom cable, audiophile grade interconnect, 7.1 PC m-audio audio card, 12 awg speaker cables with banana jacks, Linn speaker connectors, etc.).

Terry

PS- Anyone used/tried this ridiculously priced DL III cable they're selling for a couple hundred dollars? I have RJ45 connectors and crimpers, wondering if I could make a "high grade" DL III using single-strand shield wires, braiding them, covering 'em with flex covering, and end up with same thing (or better). Anyone seen a thread or "recipe" for this? I've searched entire web and come up nada.

PPS- OK, that was a lot, but the main deal here is: HOW DO I GET MY 3910 WORKING?!?!? I'm 95% sure it has nothing to do with 5805CI (unless my CAT6 home-brew DLIII cable which used to work on 4805 just fine now causes 3910 to gag).

I have not calibrated yet, but will.

Dont panic yet.... I dont know anything about your display and its compatibility, but calibration is *critical* to suppressing macroblocking in most circumstances!

eg If brightness (black level) is set a bit high you will often see MB in dark areas on a susceptible combination.

As far as macroblocking in other background colors is concerned, I found that the hue/tint adjustment is critical. Get hold of the blue filter and adjust the tint and color as accurately as possible. I got better results having my hue increased in the player and then calibrating hue on the display.

If you are also able to connect component cables then make sure you try these with the progressive output on the 3910. You arent using upscaling but you might be suprised with how good the results are. (Make sure you calibrate a separate input on the display for the component connection)

Check you have the latest available firmware.

What calibration dvd do you have?

Dont panic yet.... I dont know anything about your display and its compatibility, but calibration is *critical* to suppressing macroblocking in most circumstances!

eg If brightness (black level) is set a bit high you will often see MB in dark areas on a susceptible combination.

As far as macroblocking in other background colors is concerned, I found that the hue/tint adjustment is critical. Get hold of the blue filter and adjust the tint and color as accurately as possible. I got better results having my hue increased in the player and then calibrating hue on the display.

If you are also able to connect component cables then make sure you try these with the progressive output on the 3910. You arent using upscaling but you might be suprised with how good the results are. (Make sure you calibrate a separate input on the display for the component connection)

Check you have the latest available firmware.

What calibration dvd do you have?

OK, just to make this clear, THE DISC(S) AREN'T PLAYING. It sits at 00:00:00 after "disc loading" and won't respond to anything, not commands on the unit, nor via the remote. I have no idea how macroblocking, etc. could be an issue here.

And yes, it is updated with the latest firmware, that's how it does DL III, otherwise it couldn't. It has the "3 CD update" that is currently shown for this device and afterward worked great sending multi-channel audio (DVDA, SACD, etc.) over DL III. Noit that that's an issue, as again I get to the basiscs, THE DISCS AREN'T PLAYING!

Whew, hope that clears things up. The menus, etc., BTW, appear just fine color-wise, though they certainly aren't an in-depth test, they demonstrate that the video path is getting through. It would appear to be with the pickup/play area of the DVD/CD mechanism that is not working. What's weird is that it will "load" then sit 00:00:00 and not play or respond to any command other than "open".

tlparker,

Btiltman was responding to my post - the one above yours, hence the "quote" from my post.

Your problem seems very simple, but you may not want to hear it. If you search this thread you will see a few posts describing your problem exactly. Chances are you have a "laser tracking assembly" problem. Here is a post that mentions it.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9063104&&#post9063104

Here is another as well:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9062840&&#post9062840

You will likely need to have it repaired if that's the case. I think it's around $200. It was reading about these types of failures that caused me to spend $50 on an extended 5 year warranty on my new 3910.

Sorry if that's the problem,

Dont panic yet.... I dont know anything about your display and its compatibility, but calibration is *critical* to suppressing macroblocking in most circumstances!

eg If brightness (black level) is set a bit high you will often see MB in dark areas on a susceptible combination.

As far as macroblocking in other background colors is concerned, I found that the hue/tint adjustment is critical. Get hold of the blue filter and adjust the tint and color as accurately as possible. I got better results having my hue increased in the player and then calibrating hue on the display.

If you are also able to connect component cables then make sure you try these with the progressive output on the 3910. You arent using upscaling but you might be suprised with how good the results are. (Make sure you calibrate a separate input on the display for the component connection)

Check you have the latest available firmware.

What calibration dvd do you have?

Thanks, btiltman. I hope you're right. I imagine that based on all the raving reviews of this unit, that the MB can be tamed down, as you described, with a calibration. Even people with TV's with bad MB compatability with the 3910 describe it as not that bad, even in it's worst of situations. So, hopefully you're right.

I'm using DVE as my calibration.

I suspect, now that you mention it, that the reason I noticed the MB much less at 480p is because for some reason at 480p the image is not as bright - which is why the ink in the jar looked less detailed than on 720p. For some reason when I select HDMI 480p it is much darker than HDMI 720p, and not as "soft" either. The scaler must lighten up the image in some way. So, perhaps the horrendous MB I was seeing at 720p was because it was overly bright (black level was off) and out of calibration.

My wife is taking the kids to her parents tomorrow so I'll have a full day of playing with this thing!

I'm glad to have people here to help walk me through this too.

Thanks!

My wife is taking the kids to her parents tomorrow so I'll have a full day of playing with this thing!

I presume you have a THX certified disk somewhere in your collection?

If so we can get a rough idea of your overall black level if you go into the Disk setup menu and go to the THX Optimiser option and in the video section go to the 'Brightness Setup'. How many boxes are visible at the top and bottom of the screen?

I know you are going to do a full calibration tomorrow but I am just interested in roughly where its at right now!

Don't have one believe it or not. They're all on loan out!

But, I'm sure it's way too bright. My last DVD player required me to adjust the 'brightness' of the TV to (-20) from the sets nominal. It's quite 'bright' from the factory. I'm sure I will need to adjust down significantly.

Don't have one believe it or not. They're all on loan out!

But, I'm sure it's way too bright. My last DVD player required me to adjust the 'brightness' of the TV to (-20) from the sets nominal. It's quite 'bright' from the factory. I'm sure I will need to adjust down significantly.

OK, well you might want to experiment with Setup Level (0 vs 7.5) in the picture adjust / setup menu before you start calibrating. This might allow you to bring your brightness adjustment more towards the middle of the display's control if you find you have to have such a high negative number again this time. I think the default will be 7.5 and if you use 0 this will give a starting point which is much darker. (I am relying on memory here!)

There is also the HDMI/DVI Black Level setting (normal vs enhanced) in the digital interface menu - you might want experiment with that one as well - it will require you to redo your brightness setting though if you do.

Will you be starting with a new input setup on the display or will you be using the one a previous player was connected to? If its the latter then return all settings to defaults before you start your main calibration.

I know you said you have all day to work on this but - make sure you start early as it amazing how it eats the time up! ;)

tlparker,

Btiltman was responding to my post - the one above yours, hence the "quote" from my post.

Your problem seems very simple, but you may not want to hear it. If you search this thread you will see a few posts describing your problem exactly. Chances are you have a "laser tracking assembly" problem. Here is a post that mentions it.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9063104&&#post9063104

Here is another as well:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9062840&&#post9062840

You will likely need to have it repaired if that's the case. I think it's around $200. It was reading about these types of failures that caused me to spend $50 on an extended 5 year warranty on my new 3910.

Sorry if that's the problem,

OK, I read those threads (don't know why they didn't show when I did my search, I went pretty broadly through a bunch of stuff, searching such a pain sometimes) and I'm going to assume that the laser tracking assembly is my issue. Does anyone have a guide or maybe the 3910 tech manual so I might take a crack at fixing it myself? Barring that, do I have to send it back to Denon, or is there someplace/somewhere else I can send it that might do it cheaper/faster, etc.? Ideally, I'd like to take a crack at it myself. The way it sounds like they go, it doesn't seem like the fix should be tough, just some minor adjustments, possibly while playing a cleaning or adjustment DVD? I have several calibration DVD's/CD's that might be helpful, if I can get them to play!

OK, I'm pretty good at the old "take it apart, figure it out, and fix it" game, but even this one shocked me.

After Bittman pointed me towards the laser tracking option and not finding a cheap solution anywhere on the net. I thought, what the heck, let's open this baby up and see what's what.

30-40 screws later and here I am starting at the control mechanism that moves the laser front/back. I notice that the gears aren't meshing properly. But I was concerned that there was something that "engaged" the gears. Couldn't find such a thing. So I gently pried/moved the driving gear assembly over until it was touching the laser and its assembly on the rails. Just for kicks, I also took some isopropyl alcohol and some lens wipes (can't believe people use q-tips and their "hairs" that can come off) to gently "clean" the laser lens, though couldn't see anything obvious.

Put assembly back together. Stick disc in, plug it in, and Holy Cow, what should appear but the word Play! Sure enough, the thing is working. I've played an audio CD on it and am now watching a DVD. (Connected to 5805CI via HDMI and DL II cables).

Anyways, if you're handy at this kind of thing, it's worth checking into. I've always been intuitive re fixing everything from driers, to computers, to audio equipment (so long as you don't need an oscilloscope :) ).

Also, if you have a unit with this problem, and want to ship it to me, I'll crack it open, do My Thing to it, and if it works, I'll charge $75 (believe me, lots of screws and very tricky assembly, dissasembly, so I'm not trying to get rich here) in addition to you paying postage both ways. Whether or not it ends up working, you pay shipping both ways (plus insurance both ways, I'm not taking any risks here, just thought I'd offer it to others stuck in my previous situation).

Thanks for the valuable info folks, and good luck to y'all!

Terry

(Potentially dumb) question: How can you tell if you might run into MB issues with your display? Is there some kind of master list compiled out there somewhere? Might I have an issue with a 3910 and my Panasonic AE900U PJ?

(Potentially dumb) question: How can you tell if you might run into MB issues with your display? Is there some kind of master list compiled out there somewhere? Might I have an issue with a 3910 and my Panasonic AE900U PJ?

I suggest you also start a new thread in the relevant projector forum with "Is there MB with Pana AE900U and Denon 3910?". I am sure there will be people there that are using or have tried that combination.

Good call.

Well, I did my calibration on Saturday. What a chore. I spent a few hours on it. I should have given myself more time. All my adjustments were made on the TV side of the equation. I still haven't even thought about changing anything in the dvd player yet.

By calibrating my black level (which ended up requiring me to set my tv at -23 on a scale of -30 to +30) and contrast (which was nothing more than a guess, ultimately), I have reduced the macroblocking tremendously. It appears as if some of the pristine detail in darker parts of an image are a little less noticeably now, though. Like the black is crushed or something. Not sure how to describe it.

I think further calibration would require me to have someone who is familiar with calibrating a digital set with DVE to help me, as it's just too time consuming and a little confusing to me right now. If I had lots of free time I could do it, but my free time comes rarely and in pieces right now. So, I'd need some help - especially with "contrast."


Anyway, the MB is a little better. At least it's at a point where I can live with it. The only DVD I watched was "Covenant" which isnt really a "reference level" movie as far as I could tell. "Corpse Bride" looks tremendously better. (Are there any new movies out I should rent which are of reference video quality? - all mine are borrowed out).



Anyway, I'm not sure yet if I'll be able to keep the player. So far it does pretty well on the musical side, but the video side is hit or miss - for the most part it produces an amazing picture but the random and occasional MB still makes me give it an average rating so far. Also, I'm having trouble with it playing some CD-R's and I have one SACD problem.

Here's a weird thing too: Why won't the DVD-3910 play my Elton John Good Bye Yellow Brick Road SACD with correct track numbers? When I insert the 2nd disk, it reads it as an SACD, displays the time, "14" tracks, and all that good stuff. But when I hit play, instead of starting at track 1, it starts on track "5." But it shows it as track "9" It plays back as 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 (but there should be only tracks 1 - 14). It's weird. I'll try it again tonight and see if I can figure it out.

So far, the dvd-2930 (which I had for a week) seems to do everything the 3910 does better, so I may trade in for that one. No MB, more features, and almost equal sound (as far as I can tell, but this does sound good).

I've got 30 days so I'll wait and see and maybe I'll determine this one will work. I need a better calibration but don't know if I'll be able to do that. "basic" calibration left much to be desired as far as contrast and colors are concerned.

I give you a lot of credit for trying. When I added my 3910 to my system a couple of years ago, I had it ISF calibrated. To do it right with my TV (Sony 70" XBR lcd rear projection) I knew I had to go into the service menu, which I was reluctant to do. After the ISF calibrator was done I was extremely satisfied, and have never seen the macroblocking that you are having problems with. But from what I've read here this is very dependent on your display, and your's may be more susceptible no matter how well it's calibrated.

For me the audio side is just as important if not more important than the video, and I've found the 3910 to be excellent in that regard. This I did spend a lot of time on, using my subs' EQ calibration disk and mic, a Radio Shack sound meter and experimenting with various surround and EQ settings and also speaker placement. Couldn't be happier and in no rush to upgrade right now.

Well, I did my calibration on Saturday.
.........ended up requiring me to set my tv at -23


So you didnt try the changing the 7.5 setting to 0 as I suggested before you started? I am sure your tv brightness will be much closer to the middle if you do that.

How about hiring a THX disk such as the Incredibles so that you can tell me what the THX brightness screen looks like. I think thats probably the only way that I can tell where you are at?

(If you dont want to go back and forth on the forum I am quite happy to do it via email.... just send me a PM with your email address)

No, I didn't change IRE from 7.5 to 0. I read somewhere not to do that for HDMI YCbCr connection. I think it crushes the black or something. But, the general consensus from my quick searching said to leave it on 7.5 if at all possible.


I have lent out my Incredibles disk. I found my Finding Nemo disk last night (which I believe is THX certified?). When I played it I found more problems with the display/dvd player interaction. But, this is a problem I saw with the 2930 I had for a brief time as well, so I'm nearly 100% certain it has to do with my TV's scaler.

On Finding Nemo, I noticed that on certain scenes when nemo (or his "dad") were in certain angles, mainly in front of a clear blue background, that their fins were stair-stepped. It almost looked like some of the examples of CUE I've seen on this page: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_2/dvd-benchmark-special-report-chroma-bug-4-2001.html especially the "drop zone" example. I can eliminate this stair-stepping if I change my dvd player to output 480p instead of 720p. But, it's much darker and I need to recalibrate. As a plus, this also all but eliminates the MB I was experiencing earlier. But, at a loss of fine details such as the ink level in the bottle on "corpse bride." At 480p it's more of a solid black jar, at 720p it's more of a clear jar with ink inside. Like I said, I saw this "stair stepping" with the 2930 too, so I suspect it's a result of my TV's scaler scaling an already 720p signal to 720p once again. It is there to some degree on 1080i, but not as bad, but not as good as 480p either. I can live with 480p output so long as the colors are accurate, the image is sharp, the detail is there, the blacks are detailed, the shadows are right, etc, as my TV scales to 720p. But, if I loose all that detail, I don't want this player. I will recalibrate at 480p and see what it does. I can't figure out why 480p is so much darker than 720p or 1080i.

Also, with finding nemo, on scenes with the darker blue "deep water" background colors, the MB was bothersome to me.

All-in-all, right now I'm 110% satisfied with the audio portion of the player. I can live with it displaying the wrong track numbers on GBYBR SACD, as it plays all the tracks okay but with the wrong numbers shown. So, the audio side is fine. I calibrated all my speakers and subwoofer and I am now hearing things on disks I NEVER knew was there. It's truely amazing.

The video side is where I'm going to have to decide. Anyone live near Indiana and wants to help? haha!

Remember, with digital video there is only 1 black. Any setting that may do something to modify that value is 99.9% of the time not what you want. I think in the case of the 3910 the enhanced black may convert to PC video levels.

For analog output, most TVs can handle black at IRE 0 or 7.5 - if in fact the setting just changes the IRE - no dinking of the digital values before D/A. Switching just requires recalibration on the TV.

larry

[QUOTE=DustinTaj]No, I didn't change IRE from 7.5 to 0. I read somewhere not to do that for HDMI YCbCr connection. I think it crushes the black or something. But, the general consensus from my quick searching said to leave it on 7.5 if at all possible.
QUOTE]

Why worry about what others say when it takes only a couple of minutes to prove it for yourself? Check out between pages 4 and 8 in this very thread and there are several references saying that 0 is the correct setting. So who knows!?

The bottom line is - try it for yourself with your display. You have the THX patterns there.

I would even be wondering whether using such an extreme negative setting on your display's brightness might introduce its own issues.

I'll give it a quick go, but I'm pretty sure 7.5 with HDMI is the correct setting. By changing it to 0, you change it to PC resolutions and loose blacker than black (chime in if I'm wrong).

Already, I'm tired of messing with this thing. I need another day to myself to play.

First, I'm going to calibrate at 480p and see how it looks due to the jaggies (looks like CUE) at 720P.

I'll give it a quick go, but I'm pretty sure 7.5 with HDMI is the correct setting. By changing it to 0, you change it to PC resolutions and loose blacker than black (chime in if I'm wrong).

Already, I'm tired of messing with this thing. I need another day to myself to play.

First, I'm going to calibrate at 480p and see how it looks due to the jaggies (looks like CUE) at 720P.

The setting that changes between studio and pc levels is the black enhancement setting in the HDMI menu.

I hope you dont mind me saying this, but I think you would be better getting the 2930, I dont think you have the patience for this! (Thats just the feeling I get ;) )

I don't mind you saying that at all! My wife would probably agree! haha.

I do have patients for things I'm more familiar with. But, with this being my first time trying to do a perfect calibration, and not knowing a whole lot about what I'm doing, it's becoming quite time consuming (and thus I'm loosing patients). Having a 19 month old and a 3 month old around all the time while working full time during the day and some weekends leaves me with not much free time, anyway. And then to have to try and learn all this stuff, do the calibrations, re-learn stuff, come here ask questions...etc, it's getting tough to find the patients (or time) for all of that.

But I need to. That way when I have to do it again one day I'll know how to do it and it won't take so long. I would be better off having someone who knows this stuff walk through it with me, but I don't know anyone who can help.

I am going to give everything a go sometime soon with the 480p and see how I can get the image to look. 720p and 1080i are out of the question due to the "CUE-like" jaggies I get at those settings. I was in the same boat while i had the 2930 too - 720p and 1080i gave the same jaggies. So, if I can get 480p to look decent, I'll be happy.

What are some "reference level" movies for image quality?
What are some very bad movies which I can look at too and see how it handles them?

Please help! If I play an SACD in my 3910 when my 4306 receiver is incorrectly set to play DVD-A (that is the 4306 is set to multi-channel instead of 2 channel) will this result in a static-filled noise floor in my front l&r speakers, very noticable when I pause the disc and turn the receiver way up?

Also: When I pause a disc and turn the volume way up I hear a high-pitched tone in my surrounds. Any idea what this could be?

Thanks, I'm a nervous new 3910 owner!

I'm sorry for the multi-postings. I meant the 3910 was incorrectly set to multi-channel instead of 2-channel.

Please help! If I play an SACD in my 3910 when my 4306 receiver is incorrectly set to play DVD-A (that is the 4306 is set to multi-channel instead of 2 channel) will this result in a static-filled noise floor in my front l&r speakers, very noticable when I pause the disc and turn the receiver way up?

Also: When I pause a disc and turn the volume way up I hear a high-pitched tone in my surrounds. Any idea what this could be?
Thanks, I'm a nervous new 3910 owner!

I'm sorry for the multi-postings. I meant the 3910 was incorrectly set to multi-channel instead of 2-channel.
Hi Arthur,
I don't understand how you can "set incorrectly" 3910 for multichannel:
- in the Setup->Audio Setup->Audio Channel-> Multi Channel is a default setting and it's meant for the systems with more than 2 speakers (which I know you have, judging from other posts).

If you did not mean the setup, but rather the MULTI->STEREO->CD switching (either from the 3910 panel or remote), these functions have to be choosen when the SACD/CD is completely STOPPED (not PAUSED) as the player has to start LOADING all over again, trying to read another AREA (in case of 2-ch/Multi-ch SACDs) or another LAYER (in case of hybrid SACD/CD).

Anyway, I don't know if trying switching these options while the disc is paused (which you probably did) could/should create any noise/hum.

Hope this explanation helped you a little ;)

and thus I'm loosing patients?
Hi Dustin,
Are you an ER surgeon or something (pun intended..) ? ;)

Is there an ideiot's guide to setting this thing up? Maybe I'm missing a step! One problem-free year with a 2910 then I upgrade to a 3910 and it's been a nightmare.

Is there an idiot's guide to setting this thing up? Maybe I'm missing a step! One problem-free year with a 2910 then I upgrade to a 3910 and it's been a nightmare.

Is there an idiot's guide to setting this thing up? Maybe I'm missing a step! One problem-free year with a 2910 then I upgrade to a 3910 and it's been a nightmare.

No, but there is one to help you avoid multiple postings. :D :D :D :D

"No, but there is one to help you avoid multiple postings."

When you're right you're right. Even worse, I was trying to correct my spelling of "idiot" and thought I could get it in before the first message was sent--making me look like an even bigger idiot in the process.

My nerves are shot...

It seems I have discovered a way to make static come out of my front left and right speakers using the 5.1 analog connections (new Bluejeans cables) between a Denon 3910 and a 4306. Anyone wishing to make this noise (it's fun!) should do the following:

1. Place an SACD in 3910 tray and close. Allow to load.

2. Have the 3910 incorrectly set to "Multi-Channel" instead of "2-Channel."

3. Being careful not to play the disk, turn the volume on your 4306 WAY up and voila! You will hear static coming out of your left and right fronts speakers.

The advance tech at Denon says he's never heard of this. Anyone willing to duplicate this experiment and prove that I'm not hearing things?

Im calling Denon Monday to run my set up by them.

Arthur
Rocket 760s, 200, 300s, SVS NDP12/2, Denon AVR 4306, Denon DVD-3910, Toshiba HD-A1, Hitachi HDPJ52, Vutec 103" screen

It seems I have discovered a way to make static come out of my front left and right speakers using the 5.1 analog connections (new Bluejeans cables) between a Denon 3910 and a 4306. Anyone wishing to make this noise (it's fun!) should do the following:

1. Place an SACD in 3910 tray and close. Allow to load.

2. Have the 3910 incorrectly set to "Multi-Channel" instead of "2-Channel."

3. Being careful not to play the disk, turn the volume on your 4306 WAY up and voila! You will hear static coming out of your left and right fronts speakers.

The advance tech at Denon says he's never heard of this. Anyone willing to duplicate this experiment and prove that I'm not hearing things?

Im calling Denon Monday to run my set up by them.
I can't think of a reason to use my gear incorrectly to cause an unintended operational anomaly.

[QUOTE=Arthur Hancock]

2. Have the 3910 incorrectly set to "Multi-Channel" instead of "2-Channel."

Arthur

Can you explain this step for SACDs?

"Can you explain this step for SACDs?"

For correct playback of SACD the 3910 should be set to "2-channel." I "discovered" the static after mistakenly having the 3910 set on "multi-channel." I'd just bought the 3910. The static made me think something was wrong with the unit. Everyone I talked to (including the Denon authorized dealer I bought it from and the Denon authorized dealer I bought my home theater equipment from) said "there's something wrong with it--send it back." Which I did, a royal pain in the rear end, got another unit, then ran into the same problem a week later. This time I finally realized (I think) that the source of the noise is simply having the 3910 set on multi channel instead of 2-channel when a SACD is loaded.

"I can't think of a reason to use my gear incorrectly to cause an unintended operational anomaly."

Here's a reason: to help me confirm that this is the source of my serious headaches with this unit. I was hoping someone here who has both machines might be willing to confirm this anomaly. I can't believe that everyone with these machines who switches back and forth between SACD and DVD-A hasn't forgotten from time to time to switch from 2-channel to multi-channel. I have a front projector and it's really a pain in the ass to have to power it up to read the 3910 menu and make the switch. That's how this started. I heard this static and it drove me crazy (I could not duplicate it on my 2910--that unit remained dead quiet!!). In any case, if I learned positively that this noise is "normal" I could rest easy about keeping the unit--assured that it was not a bad batch (admittedly highly unlikely). In any case, thanks for the responses.

I always leave mine set to multi-channel and have never heard static when playing SACD's, even before Denon Link 3 became available.

For correct playback of SACD the 3910 should be set to "2-channel."

Are you sure this is an accurate statement?

"Are you sure this is an accurate statement?"

After a year with my 2910 and now with the 3910, an SACD sounds VASTLY better on the 2-channel setting (using the 5.1 analog connects). This is how I was told to play back SACDs. My ears will be immediately traded in if the correct setting is multi-channel (that's for DVD-A). No, come to think of it I'll just continue to listen to SACDs on the "wrong" setting!

BTW the only other connection I have on the 3910 is HDMI out to the 4306 for SD DVD viewing.

Philosophically speaking, the only thing I'm "sure" of in this life is that some sort of experience is occuring at this location! :p

"Are you sure this is an accurate statement?"

After a year with my 2910 and now with the 3910, an SACD sounds VASTLY better on the 2-channel setting (using the 5.1 analog connects). This is how I was told to play back SACDs. My ears will be immediately traded in if the correct setting is multi-channel (that's for DVD-A). No, come to think of it I'll just continue to listen to SACDs on the "wrong" setting!

Using SACD's, did you try the two-channel analog outputs on the 3910?

"Using SACD's, did you try the two-channel analog outputs on the 3910?"

I don't understand.

For SACD I want to use the analog outputs from the 3910, right? This is a 5.1 connection, correct?

Here's what I do:

When I want to listen to a SACD: Setup->Audio Setup->Audio Channel-> 2-Channel.

When I want to listen to a DVD-A: Setup->Audio Setup->Audio Channel-> Multi Channel.

Is this right? If not PLEASE tell me something else to try! :eek:

FWIW, I have my 3910 set up as an Audio Player ( in the "etc." menu and I have "2 channel" selected in the HDMI Audio setup and I don't have to change anything in the player for either DVD-A or SACD playback.

"Using SACD's, did you try the two-channel analog outputs on the 3910?"

I don't understand.

For SACD I want to use the analog outputs from the 3910, right? This is a 5.1 connection, correct?

Here's what I do:

When I want to listen to a SACD: Setup->Audio Setup->Audio Channel-> 2-Channel.

When I want to listen to a DVD-A: Setup->Audio Setup->Audio Channel-> Multi Channel.

Is this right? If not PLEASE tell me something else to try! :eek:

If you setup your SACD's as 2-channel, then you'll get only two-channel output, whether you use the analog 5.1 outputs or the separate 2-channel analog output jacks. Is that how you want to listen to 5-channel SACD's? I don't understand what you're trying to do.

"If you setup your SACD's as 2-channel, then you'll get only two-channel output, whether you use the analog 5.1 outputs or the separate 2-channel analog output jacks. Is that how you want to listen to 5-channel SACD's? I don't understand what you're trying to do."

I have a 5.1 speaker array. I use 6 Bluejeans cables to connect the 3910 to the 4306. The surround system is fully and gloriously activated when I set the 3910 to 2-Channel for SACD. When I forget to set the 3910 to 2-Channel (for SACD only) and have it incrrectly set to Multi-Channel, that's when I get the static (and playback sounds sucky).

I have never used the 2-Channel analog output jacks on the 3910.

Am I screwing up?

As posted by Zen Traveler, no setup changes are necessary when switching between SACD and DVD-A. Multi-Channel is used for both. Some SACDs, however, are ONLY two-channel. But even for them, the correct setting is Multi-Channel, unless you only have a 2.0 or 2.1 system.

What do you think guys would be a fair price to sell my 3910 for? I never used it for SACD, and am going to get a HD DVD player.

Thanks

"FWIW, I have my 3910 set up as an Audio Player ( in the "etc." menu and I have "2 channel" selected in the HDMI Audio setup and I don't have to change anything in the player for either DVD-A or SACD playback. "

Zen Traveler, thank you so much, that did it. I have set the 3910 to "2 Channel" and push the "Ext In" button and can now switch between SAVD and DVD-A without changing anything!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

When I want to watch a DVD I push the "Auto" mode button and return the 3910 to "Multiple Channels.

Thanks to all and sorry for the confusion.

Fantastic Arthur. I am glad to be of help. :)

What do you think guys would be a fair price to sell my 3910 for? I never used it for SACD, and am going to get a HD DVD player.

Thanks
New ones (I've heard) can be bought for ~$900. New "B" stock with full warranty is $600 from an authorized dealer. An ebay search will show one bid to $500 and another with a starting bid of $400 and a buy it now of $600. A third lister seems to be taking his chances with open bidding; his has been bid to just over $100. Completed listings show many unsold ((starting price too high) and some sold in the mid-$300's to low-$500s.

If I were selling mine, I'd be delighted to get $500, but in light of the above info, $400 might be more realistic.

Just my $.02.

As posted by Zen Traveler, no setup changes are necessary when switching between SACD and DVD-A. Multi-Channel is used for both. Some SACDs, however, are ONLY two-channel. But even for them, the correct setting is Multi-Channel, unless you only have a 2.0 or 2.1 system.

See page 38 in the 3910's manual. I have a 3910 connected via 5.1 analogs to my 3805 receiver. The instructions clearly say that you choose Multi-Channel when you have three or more speakers connected. If you don't choose this option, you can't set speaker configuration, speaker output levels, or speaker distances (delay time). The proper setting on my 3805 for playing this signal is EXT IN--I don't know if it's the same on the 4306. This is the right setting for listening to 5.1 analog playback of anything you're playing on the 3910. (I'm not going to discuss the SOURCE DIRECT option here, to keep things simple).
When you play an SACD on the 3910, the machine will play either the CD, SACD 2-channel, or MULTI SACD track, depending on which option you choose with the SUPER AUDIO CD SETUP button on the remote. If you want to choose another one of these tracks, press the STOP button first.
I get no noise of any kind from operating my system as I've described. If you are, I suspect there is some kind of problem in either the 3910 or your receiver. If you have the Audio Channel set to 2CH, perhaps you are getting the pseudo-surround effect from the SRS Surround option. Play a multi-channel SACD that way and put your ear right next to your surround channel speakers to see if they are actually producing any sound--they should NOT be if the 3910 is in 2-channel mode and your receiver is set to play the analog inputs.

See page 38 in the 3910's manual. I have a 3910 connected via 5.1 analogs to my 3805 receiver. The instructions clearly say that you choose Multi-Channel when you have three or more speakers connected. If you don't choose this option, you can't set speaker configuration, speaker output levels, or speaker distances (delay time). The proper setting on my 3805 for playing this signal is EXT IN--I don't know if it's the same on the 4306. This is the right setting for listening to 5.1 analog playback of anything you're playing on the 3910. (I'm not going to discuss the SOURCE DIRECT option here, to keep things simple).
When you play an SACD on the 3910, the machine will play either the CD, SACD 2-channel, or MULTI SACD track, depending on which option you choose with the SUPER AUDIO CD SETUP button on the remote. If you want to choose another one of these tracks, press the STOP button first.
I get no noise of any kind from operating my system as I've described. If you are, I suspect there is some kind of problem in either the 3910 or your receiver. If you have the Audio Channel set to 2CH, perhaps you are getting the pseudo-surround effect from the SRS Surround option. Play a multi-channel SACD that way and put your ear right next to your surround channel speakers to see if they are actually producing any sound--they should NOT be if the 3910 is in 2-channel mode and your receiver is set to play the analog inputs.

I agree. See page 48 of the manual as well. By setting it to 2 ch you are setting the CD track as priority over the multi channel track of SACDs.

Arthur, my guess is you are sending a 2 channel signal to your 4306 and the 4306 is converting it to multi channel so that you get sound from all 5 speakers.

Everything in the manual points to the "multi" setting as the correct setting for SACDs not the 2 ch setting you are using.

I agree. See page 48 of the manual as well. By setting it to 2 ch you are setting the CD track as priority over the multi channel track of SACDs.

Arthur, my guess is you are sending a 2 channel signal to your 4306 and the 4306 is converting it to multi channel so that you get sound from all 5 speakers.

Everything in the manual points to the "multi" setting as the correct setting for SACDs not the 2 ch setting you are using.

I don't know if any of this concerns me but I was referring to page 33 where if you are using the analog cables, you set the HDMI on 2 channel (which it doesn't state clearly). On page 38 it does refer to what you guys are talking about but I don't think that was his problem.

For the analog connection you bypass the receiver's setup and use the 3910. When you watch DVD's and use the digital connection (and not push the "ext in") you are using the AVR's speaker settings, but can't get the DVD-A or SACD stream on the appropriate disks.

I don't know if any of this concerns me but I was referring to page 33 where if you are using the analog cables, you set the HDMI on 2 channel (which it doesn't state clearly). On page 38 it does refer to what you guys are talking about but I don't think that was his problem.

For the analog connection you bypass the receiver's setup and use the 3910. When you watch DVD's and use the digital connection (and not push the "ext in") you are using the AVR's speaker settings, but can't get the DVD-A or SACD stream on the appropriate disks.

Well, from his post above it appears that he's happy so it's all a moo point now. :)

Hi guys,

Just came downstairs after a two-hour listening session and I'm in hog heaven. With the "2-Channel" setup and "Ext input" engaged all I have to do is use the SACD button on the remote to customize the SACD playback for Multi or Stereo (or select CD for Redbook). I switch effortlessly from SD CD, to SACD, to DVD-A and everything sounds magnificent. I think Zen Traveler is right, the 2-channels must be converted to multi in the 4306. These two components really shine!

One last word, as there seemed to be some confusion about 2-channel or multi-channel. I just got this confirmed from Denon advanced tech support:

For 3910 playback of SACDs and DVD-A via 5.1 analog, HDMI setting should be "2-Channel."

Push the "Ext. in" button on the AVR-4306

Use the SACD Setup button on the remote to select format for the particular disc: multi, stereo or CD

Thanks for the help!

I agree. See page 48 of the manual as well. By setting it to 2 ch you are setting the CD track as priority over the multi channel track of SACDs.

Arthur, my guess is you are sending a 2 channel signal to your 4306 and the 4306 is converting it to multi channel so that you get sound from all 5 speakers.

Everything in the manual points to the "multi" setting as the correct setting for SACDs not the 2 ch setting you are using.

Well, from his post above it appears that he's happy so it's all a moo point now.
Well, he's happy alright, but he still doesn't understand (and you, too, for that matter) the proper settings and the problems arising, judging from the last posts.
There's so many misconceptions and misinformation spread in this thread recently (exluding Zen Traveler's) that I can not just stand aside, so let me put some clarifications here:

1) The page 48 of the manual has NOTHING to do with our problem(s) here :p , it just sets the priority for the SACD reader: MULTI-->STERO-->CD. Basically, it tells the player which AREA (when SACD is Multi/Stereo) or which LAYER (when it's SACD/CD hybrid) of the disc the laser reader should start with.
But, the signal COMING OUT of 3910 has very little to do with that, as that depends on the settings.
2) In order to get the DSD streaming (for DVD-As and SACDs) out of 3910 you need to set your options first.
They are 4 major options here, and they EXCLUDE each other:

2.1. Going digital - with HDMI: pg 33-34
it works only with DVD-As, as SACDs transmission is accepted only with HDMI 1.2/1.3, and 3910 has HDMI 1.1 :rolleyes:
- the default is 2CH - if you choose it, the downmixed 2CH signal is sent out through HDMI. Makes sense only if you have 2 speaker configurations.
The important thing is: if you're planning to use any of the other 3 options , you should leave this alone (as default 2CH) - as this is the only thing which won't gray-out, and it will not bother your final outcome !!! :eek:
- if you choose HDMI-Multi (Normal), your signal will be sent as DSD bitstream to the receiver, then decoded, applied speaker config and BM processing etc.
- if you choose HDMI-Multi (LPCM), the 3910 is decoding the signal to LPCM, adding speaker config and BM processing, then sending it to receiver for further processing and amplification

2.2 Going digital - Denon Link 3: pg 35
(probably the best and most convenient digital option)
- DSD signal to the receiver, who takes over the processing.
You can use it really for ANY digital transmissions out of 3910. :)

2.3 Going digital - IEEE1394 (firewire): pg.35
- similar to 2.2, but ... not many recievers have IEEE1394 inputs anymore...

2.4 Going analog - 5.1 cables: pg. 39-40
If you believe that your player has better DACs than your receiver - that's the way to go !!! All the processing is done by the 3910 (incl. speaker config and BM info) and then the analog signal is sent out to the receiver, just for amplification. In Denon receivers we use the EXT.IN input for that purpose. With this setting you can also decide if you want to "Upbeat" your subwoofer a little (+10dB).
Important thing: with this option choosen for SACDs and DVD-As, you can still use digital output (coax, tosslink) for the PCM signals and DD/DTS bitstreams !

3. Additionally, you can set the DIRECT SOURCE = ON, or BASS ENHANCER = ON to complicate the matters even little more .... :D

Hope, that this has helped some of you to understand that very un-gracious process of setting this unit up. It took me a lot of time to understand these matters and to write this post. :eek:
But in the end it gives me the liberty to experiment between different connections and settings in the task of pursuing my sound "Shangri-La" (BTW, Mark Knopfler's SACD with that title is a great reference disc).

Any errors or omissions noted -please send me a PM.

Well, he's happy alright, but he still doesn't understand (and you, too, for that matter) the proper settings and the problems arising, judging from the last posts.
There's so many misconceptions and misinformation spread in this thread recently (exluding Zen Traveler's) that I can not just stand aside, so let me put some clarifications here:


Well thank you so much for stepping in a clearing everything up. The original question was so clear we all should have gotten the correct answer right from the beginning.

Hi Arthur,
I don't understand how you can "set incorrectly" 3910 for multichannel:
- in the Setup->Audio Setup->Audio Channel-> Multi Channel is a default setting and it's meant for the systems with more than 2 speakers (which I know you have, judging from other posts).

If you did not mean the setup, but rather the MULTI->STEREO->CD switching (either from the 3910 panel or remote), these functions have to be choosen when the SACD/CD is completely STOPPED (not PAUSED) as the player has to start LOADING all over again, trying to read another AREA (in case of 2-ch/Multi-ch SACDs) or another LAYER (in case of hybrid SACD/CD).

Anyway, I don't know if trying switching these options while the disc is paused (which you probably did) could/should create any noise/hum.

Hope this explanation helped you a little

That certainly cleared everything up right away. :rolleyes:

I just finished installing the latest firmware from Denon ( version ESS-6609-B ) into my 3910. Everything went fine and updated smoothly. I then started to run through and calibreate the unit. The problem I am having is when I go under "Audio" - "multi channel" and try to run the internal test tones, I get no test tones at all. When I select "auto", it highlights each speaker one at a time, but I get no sound. Also when I select "manual" there are no tones either. I can play a DVD on the unit and it works fine with normal sound, but I can not figure out why it will not output the test tones. :confused:

Has anyone else ever ran into this ?

I just finished installing the latest firmware from Denon ( version ESS-6609-B ) into my 3910. Everything went fine and updated smoothly. I then started to run through and calibreate the unit. The problem I am having is when I go under "Audio" - "multi channel" and try to run the internal test tones, I get no test tones at all. When I select "auto", it highlights each speaker one at a time, but I get no sound. Also when I select "manual" there are no tones either. I can play a DVD on the unit and it works fine with normal sound, but I can not figure out why it will not output the test tones. :confused:

Has anyone else ever ran into this ?
Did you reset/reboot after the firmware upgrade? It's been a while, but I *believe* the instructions are included with the firmware upgrade instructions.

Did you reset/reboot after the firmware upgrade? It's been a while, but I *believe* the instructions are included with the firmware upgrade instructions.

Yes, at the end of the installation I did the "Inititialize" as stated in the instructions that came with the files from Denon.

Yes, at the end of the installation I did the "Inititialize" as stated in the instructions that came with the files from Denon.
Initializing resets to default all settings. Did you go through them all and select your configuration. If so, you might try flashing the firmware again and reinitializing.

The problem I am having is when I go under "Audio" - "multi channel" and try to run the internal test tones, I get no test tones at all. When I select "auto", it highlights each speaker one at a time, but I get no sound. Also when I select "manual" there are no tones either. I can play a DVD on the unit and it works fine with normal sound, but I can not figure out why it will not output the test tones. :confused:




How do you have your DVD 3910 hooked up to your AVR?

I have never run my setup without the analog cables connected but I am wondering if a person only had a digital connection and the player setup as "Audio Player" in the "etc" menu if you would get the results you are experiencing.

If this is so and you only have the digital connection hooked up, maybe try going to the "etc" menu and selecting "Video" in the player mode.

If you have the Analog connection connected and the DVD player set to "Audio" mode in the "etc" menu, try pushing the "ext in" button on your remote.

These are both stabs in the dark, but may be worth trying.

... when I go under "Audio" - "multi channel" and try to run the internal test tones, I get no test tones at all. ... I can play a DVD on the unit and it works fine with normal sound, but I can not figure out why it will not output the test tones. :confused:
It's really very simple, but very confusing at the same time :rolleyes:
By monitoring this thread I've noticed that many 3910 owners still don't understand how the settings work in this machine. The fact is that the menu structure and the manual are not helpful, to say the least :eek:
I've tried to explain it in my long post yesterday (to Arthur's benefit), now I will reaffirm couple previous points to clear out your issues:

1) You and everybody owning 3910 should understand that the Multi-channel setup in the AUDIO section refers to your 5.1 analog outputs ONLY !!!
[I know that the manual does not state that clearly enough]
It does not affect the digital or stereo-analog output at all !
So, when you set up the speaker config., level, delays, BM etc. it's only for those analog signals (decoded in 3910) which come to the receiver to some special Input (EXT.IN in case of Denons) and come straigth for amplification, bypassing RECEIVER's digital processing, speakers setup, delay, level BM etc.
So, in order to hear anything during this setup, this Input has to be selected (EXT.IN button on Denons) ;)

2) On the other hand, you could hear the sound from DVDs, because you were sending it either through HDMI or some other digital (coax,tosslink) or analog-stereo connection.
And that sound WAS NOT affected in any way by your previous AUDIO/Multi-Ch settings, it takes the settings and processing FROM RECEIVER.

3) Similarly, you could have performed the setup for the HDMI (Multi-channel , LPCM) audio connection (exclusive with analog 5.1), and then you would have to enable/select the HDMI digital Input in your receiver, in order to hear the test tones ...

By monitoring this thread I 've noticed that many 3910 owners still don't understand how the setting work in this machine.
I'm sure you don't mean it that way, but this comes across as a bit snotty. I think most of us understand quite well the settings that we use regularly. Settings that we don't use are not familiar.

How do you have your DVD 3910 hooked up to your AVR?
I have never run my setup without the analog cables connected but I am wondering if a person only had a digital connection and the player setup as "Audio Player" in the "etc" menu if you would get the results you are experiencing.
If this is so and you only have the digital connection hooked up, maybe try going to the "etc" menu and selecting "Video" in the player mode.
If you have the Analog connection connected and the DVD player set to "Audio" mode in the "etc" menu, try pushing the "ext in" button on your remote.
These are both stabs in the dark, but may be worth trying.
Guess what - your "EXT.IN" guess was right (see my previous post) but you were wrong at the same time :p
[with all due respect]

The Player Mode (AUDIO/VIDEO) setup in the etc. menu HAS NOTHING TO DO with the audio signal coming out of 3910 !!! Period ;)
This switch was created specifically in DVD-A in mind. Some DVD-As beside the main Audio section (high resolution) have also Video section/layer (which can contain its own Audio (like DD, DTS, PCM).
By setting PM:AUDIO in etc. menu you are creating the preferrence for your player to start with the Audio section on your DVD-A disc, and vice versa.
There are many interesting (and confusing) DVD-A discs around, for which this switch is absolutely necessary to use.

Here's the real-life example - the wonderfully mixed 5.1 DVD-A disc by The Beatles, "LOVE":
- when your etc. menu setting is PM:AUDIO, your player starts right away with the high-resolution 5.1 DVD-A sound, and you can see the pictures with some paintings and songs titles on your screen. And that's all you can do.
- if you change the etc. menu settings to PM:VIDEO, your disc with start like any DVD, with FBI warning, and then with the Top Menu page, where you can choose your DVD's audio: Stereo PCM, Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS 5.1. And of course you can see the pictures and song titles as well
When this disc was released last year, there was a lot of confusion among frustrated owners, who couldn't find the right tracks :eek:
(see this thread @ Audioholics: http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27195&highlight=Beatles)
and that's exactly what this etc.->PLAYER MODE:AUDIO/VIDEO setting was designed for !!!

I hope that this (and my previous 2) explanation(s) clears a little the very "muddy" process of setting this wonderful machine, as the 3910 is, to every owners liking :)

I'm sure you don't mean it that way, but this comes across as a bit snotty. I think most of us understand quite well the settings that we use regularly. Settings that we don't use are not familiar.
Snotty or not, I DO MEAN that ! I see both here and on Audioholics Forum a lot of frustrated 3910/2910/220/2930/3930 owners who:
- think the AUDIO- Multi Ch. settings affect all of their audio outcome
(biggest misconception of all, never clarified by manual, at least for 3910)
- don't get it why you have to set up the speaker config./delays/levels/BM for BOTH the player and the receiver if they use BOTH the analog 5.1 and digital connection.
- think that the PLAYER MODE:AUDIO/VIDEO (etc. menu) affect somehow the output Audio/Video signal

Believe me, I ve been through the pain of misconceptions and misinformation (delivered by forum users and Denon reps & dealers) and through the hell of trying to understand Denon's manuals (and English is not my first language...) :eek:
But at the same time I experimented with most of the possible connections and settings, trying to get some sense out of this mess.
And guess what - now it pays benefits, so all I want to do here is to share them with fellow Forum users.

I have never run my setup without the analog cables connected but I am wondering if a person only had a digital connection and the player setup as "Audio Player" in the "etc" menu if you would get the results you are experiencing.





Guess what - your "EXT.IN" guess was right (see my previous post) but you were wrong at the same time :p
[with all due respect]

The Player Mode (AUDIO/VIDEO) setup in the etc. menu HAS NOTHING TO DO with the audio signal coming out of 3910 !!! Period ;)



Now you know why I prefaced the post as I did. I don't feel I was wrong given the preceding caveat to my attempt to help this individual.

Now you know why I prefaced the post as I did. I don't feel I was wrong given the preceding caveat to my attempt to help this individual.
Well, help attempt (with all the best intentions) can be misleading at the same time, can it not ? Again - with all due respect - that was the case here, as you suggested the Player Mode: Audio, while in fact this setting has really nothing to do with the Audio outcome/cables/connections from the 3910 player. ;)

Well, help attempt (with all the best intentions) can be misleading at the same time, can it not ? Again - with all due respect - that was the case here, as you suggested the Player Mode: Audio, while in fact this setting has really nothing to do with the Audio outcome/cables/connections from the 3910 player. ;)

I realize that you stated English was not your first language and you may not understand the nuances of some aspects of our dialog. When I preface a statement with "I was wondering," it assumes I don't know the answer. To say I was "wrong" is not the correct response to my comment.


I don't wish to pursue the matter of process on this thread any longer so this will be my last response in this regard. :cool:

Snotty or not, I DO MEAN that !
(I knew that. :) )

I see both here and on Audioholics Forum a lot of frustrated 3910/2910/220/2930/3930 owners who:
- think the AUDIO- Multi Ch. settings affect all of their audio outcome
(biggest misconception of all, never clarified by manual, at least for 3910)
- don't get it why you have to set up the speaker config./delays/levels/BM for BOTH the player and the receiver if they use BOTH the analog 5.1 and digital connection.
- think that the PLAYER MODE:AUDIO/VIDEO (etc. menu) affect somehow the output Audio/Video signal

Believe me, I ve been through the pain of misconceptions and misinformation (delivered by forum users and Denon reps & dealers) and through the hell of trying to understand Denon's manuals (and English is not my first language...) :eek:
But at the same time I experimented with most of the possible connections and settings, trying to get some sense out of this mess.
And guess what - now it pays benefits, so all I want to do here is to share them with fellow Forum users.
Many, many members on many, many threads are afflicted with ignorance, and I mean that in an honorable way, i.e. lack of knowledge. It is mightily frustrating and I've run the gamut from politely trying to help, to scolding, to harranguing and finally sitting back and not helping at all. But that's not what this forum is all about. So now I'm back to trying to help while tactfully trying to get them to help themselves. You might consider moving beyond letting a lot of attitude coming through. Or not.

Just my $.02.

(I knew that. :) )
Many, many members on many, many threads are afflicted with ignorance, and I mean that in an honorable way, i.e. lack of knowledge. It is mightily frustrating and I've run the gamut from politely trying to help, to scolding, to harranguing and finally sitting back and not helping at all. But that's not what this forum is all about. So now I'm back to trying to help while tactfully trying to get them to help themselves. You might consider moving beyond letting a lot of attitude coming through. Or not. Just my $.02.
I agree with you on most parts. Let me add my $0.03, so together we will have something more useful (a nickel ?) :rolleyes:

My purpose is also just to help - but only when I know what I am talking about (otherwise I just shut up). I don't have any beef/attitude with the "ignorant or inexperienced" users. l guess I should be counted as one of them (have 3910 only for 3 weeks). :p
My beef is with some of the "experts" here, who - while they try to help - point the others into the wrong/unproven/undocumented directions. And then they admit - as the excuse - that it was only the assumptions, hypothesis or thought which they neither tried nor read about in the manual/specs etc.
So what kind of help is that ? Imagine somebody lost on the road and some "helper" pointing into the wrong direction while knowing he has really no idea ... ?
Is it really so hard to say "I have no idea" (without "but") or just abstain from writing unproven solutions ?

thanks for your post :)

The Player Mode (AUDIO/VIDEO) setup in the etc. menu HAS NOTHING TO DO with the audio signal coming out of 3910 !!! Period ;)



If you have your DVD-3910 set up as a Video Player in the "ext" menu and you put a DVD-A disk in, can you get the Advanced Resolution audio to play? :rolleyes:

My purpose is also just to help - but only when I know what I am talking about (otherwise I just shut up). I don't have any beef/attitude with the "ignorant or inexperienced" users. l guess I should be counted as one of them (have 3910 only for 3 weeks). :p
....My beef is with some of the "experts" here, who - while they try to help - point the others into the wrong/unproven/undocumented directions. Is it really so hard to say "I have no idea" (without "but") or just abstain from writing unproven solutions ?



I don't have a beef with anybody who has had their player for 3 weeks and has become an expert on it's operation. If however, they have the audacity to come and browbeat conscientious forum members who have never claimed to be experts, but have helped people over the last two years ( as well as have been helped by the same process), I think we should keep the status quo and keep expressing our opinion as long as we put the proper caveats.

I know I said I wouldn't come on and argue process, but the arrogance of some posters gets the better of me. Of course I don't mean any disrespect, but I have enjoyed my participation in this thread over the last 2 years and 224 pages and I would hate to see others of you that share my opinion be ran off by the only acknowledged expert who happens to be joining our ranks so late in the game. After all, what would have we done before the expert joined our ranks. :cool:

BTW, I apologize to those of you that have the subscription function activated for this thread and don't wish to view off topic remarks.

I don't have a beef with anybody who has had their player for 3 weeks and has become an expert on it's operation. If however, they have the audacity to come and browbeat conscientious forum members who have never claimed to be experts, but have helped people over the last two years ( as well as have been helped by the same process), I think we should keep the status quo and keep expressing our opinion as long as we put the proper caveats.

I know I said I wouldn't come on and argue process, but the arrogance of some posters gets the better of me. Of course I don't mean any disrespect, but I have enjoyed my participation in this thread over the last 2 years and 224 pages and I would hate to see others of you that share my opinion be ran off by the only acknowledged expert who happens to be joining our ranks so late in the game. After all, what would have we done before the expert joined our ranks. :cool:

BTW, I apologize to those of you that have the subscription function activated for this thread and don't wish to view off topic remarks.
You're losing your zen. ;)

You're losing your zen. ;)

Nope. By expressing myself I have actually reached equilibrium. :D

If you have your DVD-3910 set up as a Video Player in the "ext" menu and you put a DVD-A disk in, can you get the Advanced Resolution audio to play? :rolleyes:
Tricky question ;) - luckily it's not on the mutiple-choice test sheet, so I can elaborate a little:
1) There's no "ext" menu, it's called "etc."
2) No, you can not, but that's an Input for the 3910 machine (to be processed/output by it) and the discussion was about different Audio Output options/settings.
3) On the other hand, when you have it set up as an "Audio Player" you can still play your video (from DVDs) - amazing, isn't it ?

And why am I even answering this question, which was ... never posted in the first place ?
(and you never came back to this thread ... promises, promises) :confused:

All I know is, I once was blind but now I can see. :)

Thanks to everone for the help!!! This forum is amazing.

And yet...why in hell can't Denon give us a manual that explains this stuff more clearly? $3500 SRP for the 4306 and the 3910, two great pieces of equipment, and this is the best they can do? :mad:

And yet...why in hell can't Denon give us a manual that explains this stuff more clearly? $3500 SRP for the 4306 and the 3910, two great pieces of equipment, and this is the best they can do? :mad:
You're reading my mind, Arthur ... and I appreciate your PM ;)

Tricky question

Zen: Yes it was. I was trying to point out that you can't speak in absolutes and although my statement was an assumption--you were wrong in your blanket statement assertion.

1) There's no "ext" menu, it's called "etc."

ZEN: You caught me. Shucks!

2) No, you can not, but that's an Input for the 3910 machine (to be processed/output by it) and the discussion was about different Audio Output options/settings.

Zen: Then you shouldn't have said "The Player Mode (AUDIO/VIDEO) setup in the etc. menu HAS NOTHING TO DO with the audio signal coming out of 3910 !!! Period"

3) On the other hand, when you have it set up as an "Audio Player" you can still play your video (from DVDs) - amazing, isn't it ?

Zen: Not to those that have been here for a while.

And why am I even answering this question, which was ... never posted in the first place ?

Zen: Of course it was. You would be crazy to respond to something that wasn't posted. The reason you are answering is because I caught you typing something wrong (after your chastising of us mere mortals) and you are embarrassed. That would be my guess. ;)

(and you never came back to this thread ... promises, promises) :confused:

Zen: That's not what I said but you are correct in catching me in a misstatement. I said I wouldn't come back to discuss process, NOT that I wouldn't come back to this thread.



I also appreciate the PM Arthur. ;) I am equally glad that you are here True Fan. You may truly be an "expert" and I am always open to learn something. To show respect to other Thread participants, I will let this be my last post regarding "Process."

If ,True Fan takes one of these days off and I see an opening to attempt to help someone, I will jump in and try to be of assistance. I hope the rest of you do the same. :cool:

True Fan -

I got a lot out of your posts and thought they were helpful.

Thank you for taking your time in posting your results on this thread.

Regards,

Andre'

I just finished installing the latest firmware from Denon ( version ESS-6609-B ) into my 3910. Everything went fine and updated smoothly. I then started to run through and calibreate the unit. The problem I am having is when I go under "Audio" - "multi channel" and try to run the internal test tones, I get no test tones at all. When I select "auto", it highlights each speaker one at a time, but I get no sound. Also when I select "manual" there are no tones either. I can play a DVD on the unit and it works fine with normal sound, but I can not figure out why it will not output the test tones. :confused:

Has anyone else ever ran into this ?

I want to thank all of you that offered your advice on my problem above. I am using an Anthem AVM-30 processor and it has a "6ch" button on the front which is basically the same function as the "ext. in" button for you Denon users. I was out of options and pulling my hair out trying everything to get the test tones to play, but no luck.

Finally I took Pepar's advice ( thank you very much Pepar ) and I reinstalled the firmware upgrade and quess what ?

Test tones work beautifully !!!

Thanks again everyone.

Ok, now that I finally have test tones again on the 3910, I have calibreated each speaker level and distance.

I realize that when you turn "Source Direct" on you bypass the speaker settings and bass management.

When do you use Source Direct on ?

What is the sense of calibrating speaker levels and distance for the analog outputs in the "speaker setup", and then bypassing it all by turning Source Direct on ?

Should I use Source Direct "on" when listening to Dvd Audio and SACD ?

I realize that when you turn "Source Direct" on you bypass the speaker settings and bass management.
When do you use Source Direct on ?
What is the sense of calibrating speaker levels and distance for the analog outputs in the "speaker setup", and then bypassing it all by turning Source Direct on ?
Should I use Source Direct "on" when listening to Dvd Audio and SACD ?
I think it's there for you to try and experiment - to your liking, although the manual pg.41 makes some straight recommendation:
"... for DVD-Audio that has been recorded with all channels and full bandwidth"
But, how do you determine the way your DVD-A was recorded in a first place ??? :confused:

Apparently, the result of choosing this option is (page 41):
"DTS recommended all-channel full bandwidth playback, with sub level increased by +5dB (+15dB for SACD)".
So, DTS recommends it for its tracks (which I personally prefer over DD), but can also be used for DVD-A Advanced Resolution and SACDs as well :cool:

I guess - as I said in the beginning - you need to start playing around with it and find the setup of your liking.
I am really glad that you found the solution to your initial problem :)

Hi guys, is ESS-6609-B the latest Firmware for our DVD player ??

Thx !!

Hi guys, is ESS-6609-B the latest Firmware for our DVD player ??

Thx !!
Yes, it is the latest downloadable firmware.

Hi guys, is ESS-6609-B the latest Firmware for our DVD player ??

Thx !!

Unfortunately it depends. If you download the firmware then "B" is the latest version. If you sent it in for repairs some have reported getting it back with a version "E".

Do a search of the thread for posts in the May to July 2006 time frame, there was some discussion about this.

Hi guys, is ESS-6609-B the latest Firmware for our DVD player ??

Thx !!


go to: http://www.usa.denon.com/

And sign up for owner's club, register your unit and you will be on the mailing list for upgrades updates etc.

Thx mismatch !!

Ok, now that I finally have test tones again on the 3910, I have calibreated each speaker level and distance.

I realize that when you turn "Source Direct" on you bypass the speaker settings and bass management.

When do you use Source Direct on ?

What is the sense of calibrating speaker levels and distance for the analog outputs in the "speaker setup", and then bypassing it all by turning Source Direct on ?

Should I use Source Direct "on" when listening to Dvd Audio and SACD ?

Source Direct is a function of the machine which really only applies to CERTAIN groups of people: Those whom have 5 FULL RANGE speakers and a subwoofer. By turning source direct ON, you are allowing the DSD signal of the SACD to stay DSD throughout - no DSD-PCM conversion (this conversion is required for bass management / time alignment functions). The majority of us do NOT use 5 full range speakers, so Source Direct is of no use to us.

Basically, it tells the unit to read the information on the disk, convert it to analog, and output the full frequencies to whatever you have your analog cables connected to. It assumes you have full range speakers properly setup with proper matching distances and all that.

So, if you don't have 5 full-range speakers (F, C, L, RR, LR), then you most likely need the bass management / time alignment features and can not use this functionality. DTS also recommends full range equi-distant speakers, so that's where that plays into this as well.

Hope that helps.

I have a peculiar issue.

When using Digital Video Essentials (DVE), and trying to access the "reference materials," I have a problem.

I can not access the video portion of the reference materials. It takes me to a menu with some options, but instead of starting at option 1, it starts at option 8 (which is where you get to the audio portion of the reference materials). It should start at option 1 and give me a forward / back arrow to navigate to the material I need.

However, I can NOT get to the first menu options. I'm stuck at option 8 which is the audio materials.

Anyone else with this problem?

If you have TWO full range speakers and you're listening to a 2-channel SACD, source direct is fine.

Hello all , my 3910 stoped loading all CDs and DVDs a while ago & I finally got off my buy called Denon and they told me to sent it to
Affiliated Electronics
216 Us Highway 206
Hillsborough, NJ 08844

* Tel: 908-874-3799
* URL: www.teve21.com
After they had it for 2 weeks (I called every day to get estimate)
I finally called Denon and asked them what is up with Affiliated Electronics and told them about the LACK of service .
Denon service called Affiliated Electronics for me and tole them to have an estimate for my 3910 in 24 hours.
SO I called tody and they said I need hole Loading mechanism and the part is $310 and $180 labor BUT they cant find the parts anyplace
Than they said they could replace JUST the Pick up laser for $150 and $180 But the part is not in stock
Am I getting the run around or what has anyone ever used Affiliated Electronics for a repair?
I am going to call the Denon rep back and ask his opinion before I tell them to do anything to my unit
Any thoughts >>

Yeah, so I thought I had REPAIRED my 3910. It worked for two days, then started the slow decline into non-workingness.

I posted this in another section, but it applies here as well: What are the pros/cons of the 3910 vs. the 2930CI? I am now using a 2930CI and have been very happy with it, though I am having a hard time discerning if some of the high-res pictures issues are due to it, my 5805CI, or my Samsun DLP tv/monitor. Anyone got any suggestions, facts, opinions regarding which is better, the 2930CI vs. the 3910? This would be for DVD, DVDA, SCDA, and other multi-channel audio formats. I was hoping to use one unit to do both, and using Dlink III for multi-channel is great instead of hooking up the individual cables, but
I am having a hard time reconciling the "later model is better -- 3910" with the "2930CI seems great" conundrum. TIA for any insights, help, particularly if there's something I'll be eventually missing by using the 2930CI instead,

Terry

I have had my 3910 hooked up to an Integra processor via i link for a while now and everything has worked great. However, this weekend I started getting a very loud static sound whenever I play SACD. Everything else, including DVD-A still works fine. The static/white noise is very loud, almost like a test tone. Anyone else have a similar problem or thoughts on this issue? Thanks.

hey guys really quick, i own a 3910 and was using it with an infocus 4805 projector, but i am upgrading to the mitsubishi 1000u pro and was thinking i might upgrade to an hd dvd player. would i see a difference or should i just stay with my trusty 3910?

david, SD DVDs are limited by the 480i resolution of the DVD. Although the 3910 is an incredible player, it is not true high def. An HD-DVD player, playing HD-DVDs, will look better than the 3910 (or any other upscaling player). Don't true HD broadcasts look better than the 3910?

the thing is that the mitsubishi 1000u is a 720p projector and hd dvd is 1080p rez and i am wondering if i am just wasting money, or would i, could anyone see a difference?

the thing is that the mitsubishi 1000u is a 720p projector and hd dvd is 1080p rez and i am wondering if i am just wasting money, or would i, could anyone see a difference?

Oh yeah.. big difference. I have a 3910 and a HD-A1 HD-DVD with a BenQ 8700 PJ and Panny 50" plasma. As good as the Denon is, its still limited to upscaling a 480i image. 60 seconds of a/bing a well mastered source in DVD and HD-DVD will convince anybody. The pq of a well mastered HD-DVD beats even the best mastered DVD spinning on a top of the line player, by a significant margin. Its also not just a difference in resolution. The vastly improved color palate, image depth, and lack of noise is very apparent.

Oh yeah.. big difference. I have a 3910 and a HD-A1 HD-DVD with a BenQ 8700 PJ and Panny 50" plasma. As good as the Denon is, its still limited to upscaling a 480i image. 60 seconds of a/bing a well mastered source in DVD and HD-DVD will convince anybody. The pq of a well mastered HD-DVD beats even the best mastered DVD spinning on a top of the line player, by a significant margin. Its also not just a difference in resolution. The vastly improved color palate, image depth, and lack of noise is very apparent.
The more important question, to me at least, is how does the same DVD look on both the 3910 and HD-A1? For quite a while I would be watching DVDs as I built a collection of BD/HD-DVD discs.

The more important question, to me at least, is how does the same DVD look on both the 3910 and HD-A1? For quite a while I would be watching DVDs as I built a collection of BD/HD-DVD discs.
Yup, I've done that a/b as well. The HD-A1 is a good upscaler but the 3910 is better. Detail looks about the same but the 3910 looks smoother overall and less digital. The 3910 is also significantly better in the user interface department (the HD-A1 is slow and the interface is very basic).

the thing is that the mitsubishi 1000u is a 720p projector and hd dvd is 1080p rez and i am wondering if i am just wasting money, or would i, could anyone see a difference?
David, don't HD broadcasts look great on your 720p projector? 720p is true high def, and significantly better than 480i SD DVD. I currently have the best of both worlds -- an A2 for HD-DVDs and the 3910 for SD DVDs and SACD/DVD-A. And I only have a 720p DLP as well.

David, don't HD broadcasts look great on your 720p projector? 720p is true high def, and significantly better than 480i SD DVD. I currently have the best of both worlds -- an A2 for HD-DVDs and the 3910 for SD DVDs and SACD/DVD-A. And I only have a 720p DLP as well.
just curious, do you send 1080p or 720p to your fp from the a2?

Any advantage of one over the other, DL3 vs 1394? Opinions...?

I've got a brand new 3910 coming as we speak and while I will try both, I'd like to know what option other owners went with--if either.

I plan to use Analog for CD and 2ch SACD; that's probably 75% of the time. The other 25% is DVD video, mainly concerts and action movies and the occasional multi channel SACD.

If it matters, it's feeding a AVR-4806CI.

Thanks!

Any advantage of one over the other, DL3 vs 1394? Opinions...?

I've got a brand new 3910 coming as we speak and while I will try both, I'd like to know what option other owners went with--if either.

I plan to use Analog for CD and 2ch SACD; that's probably 75% of the time. The other 25% is DVD video, mainly concerts and action movies and the occasional multi channel SACD.

If it matters, it's feeding a AVR-4806CI.

Thanks!
DL3 = proprietary to Denon. IEEE1394 = open standard,

Any advantage of one over the other, DL3 vs 1394? Opinions...?For one thing, most of the current receivers (like mine 4306) don't have 1394 anymore (yours 4806CI does have it), it's a dying technology in AUDIO. So I had to use DL3, which is GREAT-one-cable-solution !
I use DL3 for all my digital audio output, HDMI for video, analog for stereo and (occasionally) 5.1 analog cables for SACDs and DVD-As, but don't really see that much of the difference between this and DL3 (and DL3 is more convenient, cause you don't have to meass up with setup each time).
Second point: the M/C DL3 setup in the 3910 player is much more straithforward and revealing (speakers configuration, BM etc), than the one for 1394.

I'm using 1394 between a Denon 5805 any my 3910. Every once in a while the 3910 doesn't link with the 5805 when powered up (1394 indicator keeps flashing after "link check" comes up on the 3910 and 5805 displays, and no audio). Power cycling the 3910 has always fixed the problem.

Other than that, 1394 works as advertised - one cable for all audio for all sources/media, and no extra A/D and D/A conversions between the two components.

I will likely try DL3 when I set up the system after moving to Florida this summer (too lazy to do it now...)

Cheers,

Mike

Hi guys, is ESS-6609-B the latest Firmware for our DVD player ??

Thx !!

I just got a brand new 3910, manufactured 04/2006, firmware is ESS-6609-D.

Please don't STONE me! [Hee Hee] I have decided to upgrade my non progressive DVD Player and today have started the Search and Re-Search process. I SEE from this thread that MANY here are quite HIGH on this Denon
3910 even though it is "no Spring Chicken".
Is there any problem using Optical Digital Sound Out and Auto Source Feature?

Would you think that the 3910 is BETTER than the Oppo DV-970HD even though it is quite abit older?

TKS Michael :confused:

Would you think that the 3910 is BETTER than the Oppo DV-970HD even though it is quite abit older?

TKS Michael :confused:

I have both. Short answer : 3910 is superior in video and audio (if considering it as a CD/SACD/DVD-A as well). If however your display is sensitive to macroblocking, the 3910 may be terrible match. For PQ, the 970 is excellent. The color fidelity and detail is equal to the 3910. The transport speed is better than the Denon. The Denon shows its refinement in smoothness and filmlike qualities on a large display (e.g. 92 inches or better). The Oppo looks more digital in comparison.

Being an upconverting player, the 3910 kicks out some heat, probably more than the Oppo.

There is no question that the 3910 is overall better than the Oppo, although the Oppo is a better value (although the 3910 is older and therefore discounted to make room for the replacement, the 3930, which is the best of them all). People who say otherwise are basing it solely on a number from the Secrets review, which does not tell the whole story.

KEVIN - TKS for excellent/honest response to my question.
My HDTV is a 46" Toshiba Rear Projection CRT Model and I rarely [in the past] have used my DVD Player for Audio only - so I would most likely be using a NEW DVD Player for Movies - 99% of the time. It sounds like you believe that the Denon gets the edge in that department.
BUT the Oppo has some other features that might be nice to have, I have read that for one thing, you can upload your Digital Camera card, I believe, view your photos and videos - RIGHT? Another customer catcher for me about Oppo - is they include the HDMI Cable.
I am kinda spoiled by my present, older, Toshiba DVD Player which has two trays for DVD's, BUT would LOVE to see my old DVD's at NEAR HD quality.

TKS Michael

KEVIN - TKS for excellent/honest response to my question.
My HDTV is a 46" Toshiba Rear Projection CRT Model and I rarely [in the past] have used my DVD Player for Audio only - so I would most likely be using a NEW DVD Player for Movies - 99% of the time. It sounds like you believe that the Denon gets the edge in that department.
BUT the Oppo has some other features that might be nice to have, I have read that for one thing, you can upload your Digital Camera card, I believe, view your photos and videos - RIGHT? Another customer catcher for me about Oppo - is they include the HDMI Cable.
I am kinda spoiled by my present, older, Toshiba DVD Player which has two trays for DVD's, BUT would LOVE to see my old DVD's at NEAR HD quality.

TKS Michael
Michael,
Correct.. the card reader and USB port are fine for casual JPEG viewing. If you are not interested in the Denon's audio qualities, I would honestly recommend the 970 over the 3910 for you. Reason being... at 46" you probably won't appreciate the added smoothness of the Denon (which will cost you at least a $500 premium, comparing a used 3910 to a new 970). You will have no risk of macroblocking. The transport is significantly faster (something I appreciate the more I use the Oppo). Also, I forgot to mention, unlike the Oppo, 4:3 material on the Denon will be streched unless you manually go into setup and activate "squeeze" mode.... which you have to deactivate again when watching widescreen material.... pretty annoying for a premium player.

I'm curious

How many of the 3910/3930 owners here use their machine as the primary music playback source?
Does anybody use it for hi-rez only (and DVD presumably) with a dedicated CD player for redbook?

I use a Rotel CD player for redbook, and my 3910 for SACD/DVD-A (and of course, SD DVDs). To my ears in A/B comparisons, the Rotel seems to have a little more detail, but the Denon a slightly wider 2-channel soundstage, so I can't say one is overall better than the other.

I'm curious

How many of the 3910/3930 owners here use their machine as the primary music playback source?
Does anybody use it for hi-rez only (and DVD presumably) with a dedicated CD player for redbook?

I use it as a primary. I still had a Rega Planet when I first got the 3910 and the Denon sound a bit better.. mostly wider soundstage. At one time I also had a Pioneer DV-47avi which for cd's I loved and probably should have held on to. However, the video was mediocre by current standards.

Michael,
The Denon will be streched unless you manually go into setup and activate "squeeze" mode.... which you have to deactivate again when watching widescreen material.... pretty annoying for a premium player.

Kevin/Michael,

If you set the squeeze mode using the rotating knob on the front panel of the player it will go back to wide mode when you eject and re-insert another media. ;)
You don't have to go into setup to change this mode. Changes you make in setup are permanent vs changes on the fron panel are only for the inserted movie. I have not tried any other functions with the rotating knob but I really don't usually change any other functions, just the squeeze function.
That would be a royal pain in the butt if you wanted squeeze or not and you had to go in setup to do that every time. :eek:
What's really great is you can also make this change from the front panel on the fly while your movie is playing, it will disrupt the picture momentarily and give you what you want without stopping the movie. This is especially helpfull when you don't know what the format is. You know the movies I'm talking about, you slide them in, you hit play and rats!! it's the wrong format. You walk up turn the knob until you see SQUEEZE MODE, press the knob in and OFF will flash, turn the know one click when ON is on the display press the knob again and shazaam, you now have the squeeze on.
Once you eject it goes back to wide mode, no more going back to setup. :D


Of course the only drawback to this is you have get up off that lazyboy and turn that knob. :p


SC

Kevin/Michael,

If you set the squeeze mode using the rotating knob on the front panel of the player it will go back to wide mode when you eject and re-insert another media. ;)
You don't have to go into setup to change this mode. Changes you make in setup are permanent vs changes on the fron panel are only for the inserted movie. I have not tried any other functions with the rotating knob but I really don't usually change any other functions, just the squeeze function.
That would be a royal pain in the butt if you wanted squeeze or not and you had to go in setup to do that every time. :eek:
What's really great is you can also make this change from the front panel on the fly while your movie is playing, it will disrupt the picture momentarily and give you what you want without stopping the movie. This is especially helpfull when you don't know what the format is. You know the movies I'm talking about, you slide them in, you hit play and rats!! it's the wrong format. You walk up turn the knob until you see SQUEEZE MODE, press the knob in and OFF will flash, turn the know one click when ON is on the display press the knob again and shazaam, you now have the squeeze on.
Once you eject it goes back to wide mode, no more going back to setup. :D


Of course the only drawback to this is you have get up off that lazyboy and turn that knob. :p


SC
Thanks. I've used this player extensively for 2 years and never knew that. Then again, I don't think I've ever used the front panel controls except for eject or when loading firmware.

I use my 3910 for audio only (SACD/CD/DVD-A). Still using the Kenwood Sovereign changers for DVD-Video. On my 42" LCD screen there is no appreciable difference between 480p/component out of the Kenwoods (which have the Faroudja deinterlacer) and 720p/HDMI out of the Denon. Big attraction of the Denon for me was an all-digital link for SACD and DVD-A to the 5805 receiver - the sound is nothing short of spectacular.

Cheers,

Mike

I use my 3910 for audio only (SACD/CD/DVD-A). Still using the Kenwood Sovereign changers for DVD-Video. On my 42" LCD screen there is no appreciable difference between 480p/component out of the Kenwoods (which have the Faroudja deinterlacer) and 720p/HDMI out of the Denon. Big attraction of the Denon for me was an all-digital link for SACD and DVD-A to the 5805 receiver - the sound is nothing short of spectacular.
Interesting that you see no appreciable difference between the Kenwood and the Denon on your 42-incher. I wonder if a larger display would make a difference? What scaler/deinterlacer is in your display?

I'm curious
How many of the 3910/3930 owners here use their machine as the primary music playback source?
Does anybody use it for hi-rez only (and DVD presumably) with a dedicated CD player for redbook?I use 3910 as the primary for everything, (even CDs, as it incorporates AL24 Plus processing), and love it. But I have also dedicated Cambridge Audio CD player, which I use mostly in the ZONE2, and occasionally in the Main Zone.

My love for my 3910 ended quite suddenly a couple of hours ago:(

It started scratching discs. Put in a dvd, listen it to spin up like a really cheap dvd-rom which struggles to read discs. Then take it out; Voilà! A damaged dvd. Nice deep double scratches. But the strange thing is that this does not happen to CDs!?!

Why is it that every new electric device seems to break nowadays? Let's see how long my new Panasonic projector will last - it has been used almost 10 hours now... My cd-player has been working like clockwork since I bought it - 18 years ago!

Pepar,

The display is an LG 42LP1D. There is a very subtle difference between the Kenwood and the Denon, but it's not enough to outweigh the convenience of the DVD changer system. I suspect that it would be much more noticable on a larger display (such as a front projection system).

Cheers,

Mike

My love for my 3910 ended quite suddenly a couple of hours ago:(

It started scratching discs. Put in a dvd, listen it to spin up like a really cheap dvd-rom which struggles to read discs. Then take it out; Voilà! A damaged dvd. Nice deep double scratches. But the strange thing is that this does not happen to CDs!?!

Why is it that every new electric device seems to break nowadays? Let's see how long my new Panasonic projector will last - it has been used almost 10 hours now... My cd-player has been working like clockwork since I bought it - 18 years ago!
That is a sure sign that the laser assembly needs replacing. Maybe more. Under warranty?

That is a sure sign that the laser assembly needs replacing. Maybe more. Under warranty?

Yes - it's under warranty since I bought last year. It seems that the dvd-drive of the machine was almost DOA. I had been using the 3910 only for music until now because I was waiting for the projector. ...which I received last weekend. During last few days I was able to watch two movies and adjust the projector using AVIA before this started happening.

My love for my 3910 ended quite suddenly a couple of hours ago:( It started scratching discs. Put in a dvd, listen it to spin up like a really cheap dvd-rom which struggles to read discs. Then take it out; Voilà! A damaged dvd. Nice deep double scratches. But the strange thing is that this does not happen to CDs!?!
Why is it that every new electric device seems to break nowadays? Hi, mvaarani, sorry to hear that.
But, I think you did not read the manual carefully enough. It states clearly: NOT TO USE IT IN THE FINNISH SAUNA (in the middle of the winter there) :D
[Pun intended - sorry, couldn't resist] ;)

My love for my 3910 ended quite suddenly a couple of hours ago:( It started scratching discs. Put in a dvd, listen it to spin up like a really cheap dvd-rom which struggles to read discs. Then take it out; Voilà! A damaged dvd. Nice deep double scratches. But the strange thing is that this does not happen to CDs!?! My 3910 is at the repair center also, as it acted WEIRD with SOME of the discs, mostly DVD-As. Namely: vibrations, humming noise, sometimes very loud (very distracting, when you listen to SDS music) :eek:
The worst occurence: playing new DVD-A "Love" by The Beatles, vibrations/noise became unbearable !!! I took disc back to BestBuy, they replaced it with the new one, same happened ! But, the disc(s) have loaded and played properly, no damage have occured (so far).
I started experimenting with the front of the disc tray, pushing it lightly with my finger in different spots - it hepled a little with vibrations/noise. Finally, despite the fact that it happens only for a few discs, I decided to send it for repair (it's under warranty), and now they give me ... 6-8 weeks estimated time :( :( :(

Did anything like that happen to any of you, 3910 acting WEIRD (vibrations & noise) with SOME but not ALL of the discs ?

Did anything like that happen to any of you, 3910 acting WEIRD (vibrations & noise) with SOME but not ALL of the discs ?

Sound like mine except I could hear also a rubbing sound ...which kind of explains the damaged discs:) And the strange part was the some DVDS played fine. CDs play fine. Percentage of destroyed disc during last weekend was about 25%

I've noticed a trend with my music and AV devices. Every device in my listening room which has a "made in PRC"-sticker has visited service. Maybe I should take the hint when buying next time...

I've noticed a trend with my music and AV devices. Every device in my listening room which has a "made in PRC"-sticker has visited service. Maybe I should take the hint when buying next time...Well, most of the electronic equipment available in USA is "Made In China", too, except the high-end top models. Even for Denon sophisticated receivers, only the top ones come with "Made in Japan" sticker, most is "Made in China" nowadays (like almost everything else, available for the American consumers). :eek:
Funny thing I noticed, for the European market they label it "Made in PRC", for American: "Made in China", as they probably don't want to remind us (I suppose) that the most capitalistic country in the world is buying all the stuff from the biggest and most powerful communist country !!! Just the thought ... ;)

Sound like mine except I could hear also a rubbing sound ...which kind of explains the damaged discs:) And the strange part was the some DVDS played fine. CDs play fine. Percentage of destroyed disc during last weekend was about 25%

I've noticed a trend with my music and AV devices. Every device in my listening room which has a "made in PRC"-sticker has visited service. Maybe I should take the hint when buying next time...
You may find that you to make and play your own instruments to have music without PRC-made gear. :D

I'm curious

How many of the 3910/3930 owners here use their machine as the primary music playback source?
Does anybody use it for hi-rez only (and DVD presumably) with a dedicated CD player for redbook?

Primary. I've fallen in love with SACD and DVD-A and now can't listen to anything else! Moved up from the 2910 for the better DACs. Wonderful!