Originally posted by kevinca1
If you have a 3805 reciever then all you need to do is use the auto setup mic. you always need to tweak a mew piece of equiptment from the one you had pryor, kris always says this so its not something thats odd,

I've already run auto-setup, do I need to run it again for the 3910? or just leave it as is?

- D

I would run it for the 3910 also.

Why? Auto set-up doesn't care what source your using.

when you get a new player they are not always the same levels. if you leave it in factory mode and the one you had was not then you will have a difference and thats why you need to adjust. if the one you had was all small speakers say and the fac mode of the 3910 which is what it is is large then you have a differnce, also the sub level is different. if it is not on the 10db boost then you will have a big difference there also.

Jason, I was born in Brooklyn....good guess. I live in San Diego now.

Hello Ralph, I miss my big screen (Sony HS20) but since we are not building out a theater room we are stuck in this small house. I'm hoping I will adjust from a 77" screen down to the now 37" screen. I am so jealous of your East Coast basements Ralph! This 37" LCD is slated for the bedroom in a couple of years, when the 45" LCD comes down in price. I got the 37" at a $2000 discount from onecall.

Anyway, back to the Denon posts. I did not have to do much to adjust the audio. I set every speaker on small so the Velodyne sub takes all of the low end (thanks for the tips Ralph).

As far as the Avia disk is concerned, if you can get a 'free' ISF session then great for you. I have a call into a tech now so I can get the price. The 3910 calibrates real well with Avia but the 3910 is a bright DVD player on DVI out. I had to set the enhance black feature to on and then turn the brightness setting way down on my Sharp LCD TV. When I went back to watch HD TV the picture was way too dark so I will have to customize each input. I really need an ISF tech out before the holidays, but after they install Zoom (which is on order).

Anyway, we watched Start Wars last night and I cannot believe how sharp the image was. I have seen this DVD played in the stores as a demo and the image was way too soft. I am going to watch all of my DVDs again with the 3910.

Originally posted by kevinca1
when you get a new player they are not always the same levels. if you leave it in factory mode and the one you had was not then you will have a difference and thats why you need to adjust. if the one you had was all small speakers say and the fac mode of the 3910 which is what it is is large then you have a differnce, also the sub level is different. if it is not on the 10db boost then you will have a big difference there also.

What? There are adjustments to be made at the player level but they have nothing (zero) to do with the 3805 auto set-up.

yes there are adjsutments to make. if you adjust the player then the 3805 will also need to be adjsuted. you may not need to adjust much but there are also different cross over leves and like i said the 10db boost will affect both so how can you say there wont be.

Originally posted by kevinca1
yes there are adjsutments to make. if you adjust the player then the 3805 will also need to be adjsuted.

Like what? Lets look at them individually.

Auto set-up
Speaker config = nope
delay time = nope
channel level= nope

and then we also have (not part of auto-set up)
room eq = nope
direct mode set-up = nope
crossover frequency = nope
subwoofer mode = nope
etc. = nope

The only change you may or may not need to make would be the Ext. in subwoofer level. So again I ask, Why re-run auto-set-up with a new source?

Once again i will say if you put in the 10db boost you have to adjust i can not understand why you do not understand this. I changed from the 5900 to the 3910 i HAD to adjust the levels. they are not the same out of the box.

Out of the box the speakers are set from the factory. correct?
if they are different from what you currently have do you or do you not need to re set them?
if you do not have a 10db bass boost do you or do you not need ot change that level or re set it?

Originally posted by kevinca1
Once again i will say if you put in the 10db boost you have to adjust i can not understand why you do not understand this. I changed from the 5900 to the 3910 i HAD to adjust the levels. they are not the same out of the box. :rolleyes:

You should have a better understanding of what auto set-up does after I explained it in the above posts. Just in-case you were not reading it throughly, I will repeat.

Auto set-up only adjusts Speaker config (large/small/none), delay time (speaker distance) and channel level.

So unless your 3910 (or your 10db bass boost) changes you speakers size (it shouldn't), places your speakers in a different part of your room (doubtful) or changes the volume level while playing pink noise (don't think so), YOU HAVE NO REASON TO RE-RUN AUTO SET-UP!

Daphoid, no need to re-run auto set-up. Trust me on this one, I do this stuff for a living. ;)

now back to your regularly scheduled programing already in progress...

Originally posted by Mary Ann
Jason, I was born in Brooklyn....
Yeah, I thought I recognized the accent! :D

Jason

Tom Grooms, kevinca1, Daphoid
I would run autosetup again. Just in case you twiddled with things during the 3910 setup. I know I did. Forgot most of them. It is easy to do and you can always place the mic better than last time anyway.
I can understand why most people might not want to go through the trouble.

Tom is correct about the re-auto-eq. It's not necessary to do when you're adding another component, unless it's an amp or other in-line processing equipment. The 3910 will not affect the way that the 3805 interprets your room and speaker setup. The 3910 will apply its own settings that will feed the 3805, but that's completely separate from the auto-eq program. It's applied after the 3805 does its thing.

Running the auto-eq program isn't a hassle at all. Hell, I keep a tripod behind the couch! I actually pulled it out the other night and put a camera on it for the eclipse. "You mean I can mount something other than my Denon mic to this thing?" :)

BTW, Tom...how's that Plinius Odeon? :D

Jason

Originally posted by Daphoid

1.
I just had a thought. Everyone is always talking about how nice the audio section of the 3910 is, which usually is regarding DVD-Audio or SACD, over either Denon Link or the analog in connections. They always seem to say "after I tweaked it it was awesome" so is it that bad out of the box, or what?

2.
Using an SPL meter is impossible for me, and no it's not because I don't own one, I'm 90% blind, so I just can't see well enough to use it. So knowing that, I'm curious if any real tweaking is required for the output, I know I may have to tweak the subwoofer level in the Denon AVR-3805, but other then that, thoughts?

3.
Next, how 'needed' is Avia? The dealer I'm buying my TV from has a policy of "we don't sell a tv without a ISF calibration" so they'll do that free I'm told, which is awesome! Do I need to do anythign overly special with regards to setting up the 3910?

cheers!

- D

1- Actually the CD Left and Right outputs are even more impressive than SACD in comparison to other players - better signal path and better capacitors there. The SACD uses the "low-fi" std RCA connectors and is of course not upsampled to 192/24.
No its not bad out of the box.

2. Run the self test with the meassure mic - this will most likely show a sub that according to 3805 is VERY Far away (further than in reality). This is due to the internal processing in the sub that is somewhat delaying the signal -> membrane movment. Since a sub is operating very slow (low Hz) this is not as cruical as misaligned tweeters but still if to much out of synch you will loose atack - especially if you choose main+sub as sub out. If you get a distance like 7 mtrs when u only have 3-4 that is nthing unusual - actually it is more correct since the amp will delay the other speakers to get the sub in phase with theother speakers - hence giving you a more combined and exact base attack (god i used to struggle with this before i got the AVR3805 - its a gift from heaven :D).

3. If you are 95% blind you can probably not read what i write and you defenitely not need Avia. Hopefully you have perfect ears and then the best way IMO to calib is to use your ears. The ony thing avisa offers is setting up sub vs other speakers and some timing options..............Ok buy it if u like. I mostly use it for video tuning but i guess it is ok for aduio also.

I can read what you write.... with the proper settings (and dual 21" LCD's) I manage....

I can't read the remote at all though, and tiny print on screens is a no no..I'll have to see though....and you just inspired me to check my sub distance...where's that stored in setup again?

- D

Originally posted by placidman
Greetings,


I checked mine. The firmware version on mine is: ESS 6609-5 and the make day is 831.


Regards,

I got the same result from my DVD-3910, purchased here in Norway today...

Espen

My htpc (with maudio revo) usually sounds ok on cd's compared to my other (much cheaper) dvd players, but this 3910 just kills it. Not sure if it sounds as good as the 5900 I returned, but it seems to me it must be very very close to it. Very impressed! Setting this up with the 3805 is easy, especially after the 5900. No you don't need to keep running auto setup when changing input components, but i really find it fun to do. I then can try "truerta" on my htpc and see what that thinks about the auto setup when I use different mike positions for auto setup. The results are generally pretty good, but I'm still trying to do better.
Video? Well the 5900 looked great to me, but I have an x1, so no scaling from the player and, well, it is what it is... This looks great to me as well. I can't wait to see what happens when I have a new pj. No mb at all for me, but hoping someone here will just happen to get an ae700 and let me know if it might be a problem.

You are right you may not have to recalibrate sound, i did it just like anything you change in case there is a difference no harm in doiing it,I read someone say after firmware update dvd audio screen disapears on dvi i can also confirm mine does this also. maybe should contact denon on this one.

I owned the 5900 for about 10 months and I think the 3910 is very close to the 5900 in all areas. The one plus of the 3910 is that it handles the macroblocking so much better. Hopefully Denon can speed up the menu speed time and the player would then be just about perfect.

Dave

I have seen macro on the 3910 but not at normal viewing, on ben hur as reaported by paul on the panny right before the mgm lion and after the overture. i did have to really raise the brigtness to see it thought other wise i wouldnt see it.

It should be noted that display calibration makes a big difference on the "macroblocking". I have played with brightness and sharpness on my display, and with the sharpness up too high, the macroblocking really shows up more than with the sharpness at the proper level. But, compared to the 5900, the 3910 does a much better job at masking the issue.

Dave

Originally posted by Dave Vaughn
I owned the 5900 for about 10 months and I think the 3910 is very close to the 5900 in all areas. The one plus of the 3910 is that it handles the macroblocking so much better. Hopefully Denon can speed up the menu speed time and the player would then be just about perfect.

Dave

Greetings,

David, don't forget that .5 second layer change. I would like to see that made seamless as well. I had the 2900 for a year and the layer change was non existent.


Regards,

Y'now, that's a big issue with Denon that seems to keep happening, one model has a fast layer change, one doesn't, one has macroblockiing, another doesn't, one has delay in one color or another, one doesn't. The list keeps growing.

It's reasonable to expect a new model to build upon the success of previous models, keeping what works and fixing what didn't. I know that some of these issues are relatively minor but they keep happening don't they? For DVD player over $1000 in what, the sixth or seventh generation of DVD players? this shouldn't be an issue.

I'll most likely get the 3910 in a few months but will certainly keep my eyes out for a comparable player from Pioneer or Onkyo just in case. It's easy to forget what it feels like when an A/V product really does it right, it's wonderful. My new Arcam AVR-300 is fantastic, it trounced my $6000 separates for 1/3 the cost. Now, THAT'S what I'm looking for when I spend over $1000 for an A/V purchase. Same thing with my new InFocus 4805, it's a giant killer in many ways.

C'mon Denon, get some firmware out..

Ralph,
The .5 layer change is a chipset issue with the 2310, the 2900 uses the SLI chip and according to Kris, it is the chipset, not Denon. With that being said, some of the layer changes are very fast, and others aren't. It seems that if a layer change is at a chapeter break, there is a very slight pause, but if it is in the middle of a chapter it is seemless. The 5900 was like this as well. I had the 2900 for a few months and the picture was too soft with my display, but I still miss the lightning fast reflexes that the player had!

Dave

Martin like i said i had to put the brightness in Tourch Mode to see this macro blocking. as far as others saying they see it in Van helsing, Day after tommorow and Underworld i did not see nay of this what so ever with the 3910 as Dave points out when calibrtaed correctly its not there. The layer change is almost seamless have only seen it on a few movies but it was very quick, I do think faroudja needs to get rid of this macro blocking or denon and others should quit using it and go qith something that will not show this on any display.

Originally posted by Dave Vaughn
Ralph,
The .5 layer change is a chipset issue with the 2310, the 2900 uses the SLI chip and according to Kris, it is the chipset, not Denon. With that being said, some of the layer changes are very fast, and others aren't. It seems that if a layer change is at a chapeter break, there is a very slight pause, but if it is in the middle of a chapter it is seemless. The 5900 was like this as well. I had the 2900 for a few months and the picture was too soft with my display, but I still miss the lightning fast reflexes that the player had!

Dave

Greetings,

David, I would agree that this is not an issue with all of my DVD's. As a matter of fact I have only noticed it on two that I have watched. Again, not anything major.


Regards,

Hi,
I have a 2 channel audio amp and a tv with also a 2 channel audio connection.
How would you go about connecting both them to the denon 3910 ?

I know that I can use the normal L and R audio for one of the 2 equiment.
Would I have to use a Y connector or can I use the multi channel output mark as FL and FR to have it down mixed ?

Thanks.

you would do what you say use the l and right and then the fl fr i belive this is how you would im sure the manual will explain also, I would also like to add i have tried the componet on the 3910 for the first time and all i can say is it is almost dead on the same as the dvi maybe even better its a very close call.

I agree Kevin...with a CRT TV (Hitachi), I actually think the component looks better.

Dave

dave do you think the 5900 or 3910 is better on componet?

I would have to say they are equal to my eyes. The only difference that I can see (or hear) is in redbook CD playback. The 5900 has a slight edge there...but not a $700 edge IMHO.

Dave

I've had this unit for about 2 weeks now and I have enjoyed every movie. No skipping, great picture quality and awesome sound. DVD audio is superb. After reading the posts I realized that I did not even try a CD yet so I did. CDs never sounded better. We have pulled every CD out of the closet and now we are back to listening to music in the living room. I cannot say enough about this player. I know it is a little pricey. I never expected to spend this much on a DVD player, but like I said in a previous post, we spend thousands on these new HD TVs and projectors as well as our sound systems yet we hesitate to open the wallet when it comes to high end DVD players. For me, a good DVD player was the missing link. You can wait and see other DVI/HDMI player that will be out soon as many more will hit the streets, but you won't be dissapointed with the 3910. I was able to get a $150 discount from my local retailer. You should be able to get a discount from the $1299 list price also, probably even more if you shop around. It's worth it. Get it for the holidays, enjoy it with your family and show it off to your freinds. Let us know if you take the plunge and how you like it. I would buy another Denon product again based on the quality of this product . (This is my first Denon purchase).

Hi All:
I'm new to this forum and thread, though I've been lurking the past week. Thanks to the info here I just purchased the 3910 to go along with my new Sony KD-30XS955 (great pq by the way, no comparison to my sd tv). The info I'm requesting is where can I purchase the AVIA calibration DVD.
Thanks.

Originally posted by bigalbklyn
Hi All:
I'm new to this forum and thread, though I've been lurking the past week. Thanks to the info here I just purchased the 3910 to go along with my new Sony KD-30XS955 (great pq by the way, no comparison to my sd tv). The info I'm requesting is where can I purchase the AVIA calibration DVD.
Thanks.

I found Amazon to have the best price on the AVIA DVD. I now have the disc, but my 3910 hasn't arrived yet! I am very excited, but was willing to wait the extra time to get it in silver. Will report back once I get it hooked up.

BTW, does anyone who has their 3910 hooked up via HDMI have recommendations as to where to get a good HDMI-HDMI cable for a reasonable price?

When playing hybrid sacd's, does hi-rez stereo play through the analog left/right, or the 5.1 fl/fr, or both. The cd layer is not hi-rez, but could or should it be played through the l/r, fl/fr, or both the same?

What about single layer sacd's. Can 2 ch stereo be played from fl/fr without downmixing. Is downmixing still hi-rez?

Are redbook cd's played through l/r or fl/fr, is there a difference? I guess this would be the same answer as the cd layer of sacd?

I expected the 3910 manual to give a chart, but I couldn't find anything definitve.

Thanks

here is a drawing of the signal path

I have purchased cables on-line from RAM, Pacific Cable and Lindy.

Originally posted by jfinneru
here is a drawing of the signal path

Hmm?
I only see one faroudja in the picture.
The 3910 is supposed to have two of them?

And the mixed FL FR are the bigger ones that also have better elxtroncis in fron of them (capacitors a.s.o.) to give a snappier sound when playing the high rez 2 channel SACD or DVD-A format (higer bitrate than 5.1)

Regards
Boogie

This is a "heads up" to all Denon 3910 buyers:

If you intend to use it for music CDs that you've burned yourself, make sure that this is one of the things that you check first.

I bought one today, but it's going back because it wouldn't load 15 out of 20 CDs I tried (ones that I've burned myself, and play with no problem on my Denon 1600).

For the ones it DID load (and commercial CDs), the sound was indeed wonderful.

Not sure if this was just one bad unit. Manufactured in June 2004.

--ErnieW

Boogie,

Are you saying the best stereo signal is always output through the L/R analogs and not the fl/fr 5.1, regardless of the disk type?

Must the 3910 be set for stereo downmix for this output to be active for sacd or does it always output mixed stereo?

maybe something wrong with you skills regarding burning of CD's;)
Tried it with several burned cd's ( uses clone CD and high quality Verbatim disc's) No problem. Also tried now with an old scratchy burned CD with no problem, so I don't think you problem regarding 3910 is universal

I have had no problems with burned cd's.
Is anyone using noise reduction? My biggest problem with most dvd's is simply video noise. Not rainbows, vb, mb or whatever. Like everything this can't help, or doesn't seem to. HD is a different story. Noise seems much less a factor. Seems a bit strange with a basically DVD resolution display.

Originally posted by ErnieW
This is a "heads up" to all Denon 3910 buyers:

If you intend to use it for music CDs that you've burned yourself, make sure that this is one of the things that you check first.

I bought one today, but it's going back because it wouldn't load 15 out of 20 CDs I tried (ones that I've burned myself, and play with no problem on my Denon 1600).

For the ones it DID load (and commercial CDs), the sound was indeed wonderful.

Not sure if this was just one bad unit. Manufactured in June 2004.

--ErnieW

This is NOT the player (although in your case it might be). Here's a tip. Don't burn your CD's at 48X, 32X, or even 24X. Stick with 12-16X, 8X if you're really cautious. Why? Well four-five minutes for a CD isn't to bad at 16X, that and unlike commercial CD/DVD's which are pressed (the data is pressed into them), when you burn a CD the pits are dug into the CD by the laser. The faster your burn, the shallower the pits are, and the harder the laser in the DVD player has to work.

I have a Panasonic DVD player that's a few years old, it reads everything I throw at it, even CDRW's, but my newer Hitachi (my parents) can barely read any of my burnt CD's.

Burn slower, it's not that much of a time difference, and read results will be better. Also if you're doing a lot of downloading, anything under 160kbps bit rate is going to sound icky on good speakers (unless you're tone deaf :)).

oh and the obligatory: Don't download mp3's, but the CD's!! (I have actually started buying most of mine again...but that's a post for another day)

Cheers!

- Daphoid
:Your friendly Geek:

EDIT: buying the 3910 just for audio? *throws up* that just makes me sick to my stomach....it's a AMAZING DVD player...why waste all that goodness....get a nice 5 disc SACD/DVDA player..... /personal rant/

Originally posted by Daphoid
EDIT: buying the 3910 just for audio? *throws up* that just makes me sick to my stomach....it's a AMAZING DVD player...why waste all that goodness....get a nice 5 disc SACD/DVDA player..... /personal rant/
Daphoid-

Probably 95% of my use is still CD music (multichannel SACD/DVD-A or otherwise). I love the audio performance of this thing and bought it because I figured it would be a big step up from my Pioneer Elite 45a universal (and it is! :D). You're right, it's an excellent DVD player, but for me it's an excellent audio player first.

Jason

Well as long as you USE the video side :)

- D

Daphoid,
You are exactly correct in everything you've said.

I HAVE been burning all my CDs at 8x, on high quality blanks. I've probably burned close to 100 for myself (coverting vinyl), friends and relatives (converting cassettes). No one has had any problem with my burns on any of their players (even el-cheapo).

Also, you're right about the mp3 quality. If I MUST download an mp3, I use 192Kbps (overkill, I know). But I hate the quality and it really shows through my Sennheiser HD590 phones.

Also, I bought the 3910 for music this winter, until I upgrade my TV to a DLP next summer or fall. I figured I might as well enjoy superior music in the meantime, and be ready with the DVI capabilities for when I need it.

My serial # is actually lower than those that needed the firmware upgrade, so I figure my best option is to just wait maybe 4 months until the build dates are current, i.e. now. Perhaps this is all working out the best for me, if I wait. I'm patient.

--Ernie

This is a repost of a message I accidentally posted outside of this thread. I was wondering if people were getting better results with the DVI or Component connection. I'm personally doing better with the DVI which, in theory, should not be the case. I'm finding the colors are better and there is much greater depth in the picture. Any suggestions as to what I might be doing wrong would be appreciated.

Projector: Sharp 10000
Receiver: Arcam AV300
DVD Player: Denon 3910 (720 p)

Callibrated using the avia disk.

ErnieW- Thanks for the tip about CDR's. I have a bunch myself, and will specifically test this when I get my 3910. Let us know if the next one is any better, OK? :)

I compared my 3910 for redbook CDs versus my Rotel CD changer (1055), using AudioQuest analog interconnects to a Rotel preamp with both players. I was able to do A/B comparisons since I have a few greatest hits CDs that overlap with some non-greatest hits CDs, all remastered around the same time. I was unable to detect any difference between the Denon and Rotel players, which is not that surprising since both use top Burr-Brown audio DACs. I mean this as a compliment to the 3910 since I have loved my Rotel since I got it 2 years ago. Of course, I now have high res audio (the Rotel CD changer does not play either SACD or DVD-A), not to mention an incredible PQ over DVI to my DLP. All in all, I am very happy with my recent purchase.

I am using DVI out from the 3910 to a Sharpl 37" LCD and the 3910 is set at 720 DPI. Component looked great also but I prefer this set-up. I had a Sony HS20 LCD projector and DVI out and 720p also looked the best. I agree, the colors are deeper. When I demoed the 3910 at my local store this configuration also looked better on a 50" rear projection LCD. I'm a LCD fan so I don't know if the same holds true for plasma or CRT.

Mary Ann, somehow let us know if you ever see macroblocking. I'm looking to use the 3910 with an LCD display someday.

Originally posted by 95ForCanada
This is a repost of a message I accidentally posted outside of this thread. I was wondering if people were getting better results with the DVI or Component connection. I'm personally doing better with the DVI which, in theory, should not be the case. I'm finding the colors are better and there is much greater depth in the picture. Any suggestions as to what I might be doing wrong would be appreciated.

Projector: Sharp 10000
Receiver: Arcam AV300
DVD Player: Denon 3910 (720 p)

Callibrated using the avia disk.


Greetings,

95, Actually sending DVI from the 3910 to your Sharp DLP should produce a better image than component ( theoretically speaking ). The digital to analog and then analog to digital conversion process is eliminated by going digital out to digital in. Using component will require the signal to undergo the additonal D/A ( 3910 ) and A/D ( Sharp ) conversion which can introduce artifacting. If you are seeing a better image over DVI then you are in the right ballpark. If you had a CRT based display and were seeing a better image via DVI then I would say your question would be correct.




Mary Ann, somehow let us know if you ever see macroblocking. I'm looking to use the 3910 with an LCD display someday.


Kevin, I have an LCD front projector. I did notice some macroblocking while I was tweaking the 3910 to my Sony HS10. I had the settings adjusted a bit on the bright side at the time. While watching City Slickers I noticed it in the scene where Billy Crystal and his wife are in bed talking and the phone rings. The room is dark in this scene and macroblocking is visible on the wall in the background. After proper setup/adjustment this same scene showed no macroblocking at all. I do believe that the settings have a definite effect on macroblocking being visible/evident. I don't see it with any of the material I have viewed on my 3910.


Regards,

Man, I'm having a bad week; first I post to the wrong thread then I screw up the actual question. What I meant to say is that I'm getting better results with component, where DVI should theoretically be better (considering it is being sent to a DLP-based device). I haven't run into the macro-blocking issue yet but, to be truthful, I haven't specifically been looking for it.

Now that the question is posed correctly, any advice would be appreciated.

I'm somewhat a newbie to all this stuff but I am learning fast, so here is what I know. I think I know what macroblocking looks like because I sometimes see it it with the Cox high definition or digital signal. I have never seen this with the 3910 and this is my third week watching movies now. I calibrated the DVD with Avia as soon as I got it and my current screen is small (37" sharp) and we sit 9 feet back. My serial number is xxxx1305 and I just got the firmware CD today from Denon. I see that black units below xxxx3499 experience Chroma Spread issues on PAL and HDMI per the instructions that came with the CD. I am using the DVI to DVI but I am going to install the firmware anyway because I will be using HDMI to HDMI on the 3910 soon because the new Voom Motorola box that's coming has a DVI port. HDMI in general concerns me because I had poor black levels before with a Motorola 3250 HD box hooked up with a DVI to HDMI cable to the HS20, that is why I just use the DVI out on the 3910, all though my Sharp LCD has both DVI and HDMI inputs. I am not passing audio to the TV anyway. I removed the side speakers from the TV.

My only concern with the unit was the big difference in subwoofer volume when switching between multi-channel audio and the toslink connection but after some tweaking with my amp (Yamaha rx-v750) and the Denon I got it pretty much evened out.

I'll look closely for macroblocking now but it may be more of an issue if you have a larger screen.

tsiopni:
Thanks for the info on the Avia disk. I just ordered it from Amazon. I'm on the road this week, but this weekend will setup and calibrate my 3910. I will report back here on how it looks, (great I'm hoping).

CDR loadability update

I took my 3910 (which wouldn't load 80% of my CDRs) back to the store, along with my CDRs, and tried loading them on a demo 3910 they had in the store.

No problems - all loaded on the first attempt.

So the store asked Denon Canada to ship a new unit with all firmware updates.

I'm confident that this was a rare single-unit problem.

--Ernie

My CDR's are playing fine. In the op manual on page 8 it states that some CDR/RW may not work. Let us know how you make out.

Viking Dwarf
"Probably 95% of my use is still CD music (multichannel SACD/DVD-A or otherwise)"
Well I'm not at 90%, but audio's a very major factor for me. It really does sound great. It has ... I hate to use the word "airiness" so lets just say "clarity".

Daphoid
"that just makes me sick to my stomach"
Don't get sick. I'd bet that most people with a 3910 are using it as their primary A/V player. We are not all rich. Just equipment geeks.

"Stick with 12-16X, 8X if you're really cautious."
This is a great point. Especially if you want longevity. Plus, there is a lot of cheap burner hardware and software that I just don't trust. But then I am paranoid.

"Network Admin"

Hi all you fellow 3190 owners,

Recently I joined the club and bought an 3910 (upgraded from a Samsung 931). This is really an amazing unit with both excellent video and sound performance.
The only thing that bugs me, is that via DVI/1080i I experience visible color banding when the picture is panning horizontally or vertically. I wonder if that refers to the already mentioned chroma speed issue or Y/C delay which can be fixed by the available firmware upgrade? According to denon germany support all units already have the latest firmware applied.

Any help is greatly appreciated,
Markus

Does anybody know if there is any firmware that can make the Denon 3910 code free (multiregion)?:confused:

at your local denon dealer

Originally posted by navarros
Does anybody know if there is any firmware that can make the Denon 3910 code free (multiregion)?:confused:

If you do a search in this forum there was a thread about a hacked firmware.

I'm now running DVI out from my 3910 to a Dtronics 2x1 DVI
switch into my Sony kde-50xbr950 Plasma.

PQ with component was very good.

But at 720p with the DVI connection PQ is is quite a bit better.
It looks very close to high definition in terms of sharpness,
detail is better and colors are brilliant.

Sound quality is excellent with SACDs, CDs and DVDAs.

So far, I'm very pleased with this unit.

/George

That's great news George. Many of us are getting good results from 720p and DVI. I have found that 720p produces a sharper image than 1080i. When I demo'ed the unit the salesman tried to impress me with DVI by switching from component to 1080i. We were viewing a 50" rear projection LCD TV. (Component looked great by the way). I told him to switch to 720p instead and he was amazed. His actual commect was, "Wow, look at that." and he commented on how much deeper the colors were. I had a Samsung HD931 prior to this and when Nemo swam he had a trail following him. (Sharp LCD 37") The difference with the 3910 was amazing. No trail or blurring at all.

I was going to bring this up when I got the TV, but eh it'll give me something to discuss now :)

1080p - what will the 3910 do with it? cry like a baby and give me 1080i at best? Earlier I was pondering DVI + Denon Link (and 5.1 analog connections if I ever go SACD), thoughts?

- D

mmmm, 1080p. Has anyone tried a WMV on their 3910 yet?
I converted from a HTPC to external components myself.

The Denon manual does not state that it can play Windows Media Video (WMV). Are there any other HD DVD movie available besides this format? I suspect the3910 won't or at the very best you will get 1080i. I played one of these disks on a HTPC with Zoom Player Pro tweeked to the max (FFDShow) connected to a Sony HS20 (max res of 1366 x 768) and the image was way softer than the standard DVD that came in the box (Step into Liquid).

Maybe someone else reading this has tried one of these HD movies, otherwise we will just have to rent one and try it.

Originally posted by Mary Ann
mmmm, 1080p. Has anyone tried a WMV on their 3910 yet?
I converted from a HTPC to external components myself.

The Denon manual does not state that it can play Windows Media Video (WMV). Are there any other HD DVD movie available besides this format? I suspect the3910 won't or at the very best you will get 1080i. I played one of these disks on a HTPC with Zoom Player Pro tweeked to the max (FFDShow) connected to a Sony HS20 (max res of 1366 x 768) and the image was way softer than the standard DVD that came in the box (Step into Liquid).

Maybe someone else reading this has tried one of these HD movies, otherwise we will just have to rent one and try it.

I tried the wmv STEP INTO LIQUID disc without Zoom Player (just Windows Media Player 10) in my HTPC. The image was way superior to the one produced by the regular 480p disc using a Denon 3910 with the HDMI connection (720p). More sharness, depth and definition in the wmv disc.

That's interesting. What screen were you using to watch the HTPC DVD on, a computer monitor? And if so what is the resolution of the monitor? If it was 1080p then I'm sure it looked better.

What screen were you watching the 3910 on? I feel that the 3910 produces the same excellent image that my souped up PC did with zoom player and FFDshow but like I said, I was just watching Step into Liquid HD DVD on a 1368 x 768 Sony HS20 LCD projector and a Samsung 1280 x 1024 LCD monitor. The two major differences were that the Denon cost slightly more than the HTPC and the Denon is easier for other family members to operate.

As a matter of fact, before I purchased the 3910, I read somewhere that a review from another country was comparing the quality of it to ZP and FFDShow, and I agree.

So I guess I was right in saying that you cannot play a WMV in the 3910? Have you tried one yet? If not please do and let us know if it plays. Thanks

Originally posted by Mary Ann
That's interesting. What screen were you using to watch the HTPC DVD on, a computer monitor? And if so what is the resolution of the monitor? If it was 1080p then I'm sure it looked better.

What screen were you watching the 3910 on? I feel that the 3910 produces the same excellent image that my souped up PC did with zoom player and FFDshow but like I said, I was just watching Step into Liquid HD DVD on a 1368 x 768 Sony HS20 LCD projector and a Samsung 1280 x 1024 LCD monitor. The two major differences were that the Denon cost slightly more than the HTPC and the Denon is easier for other family members to operate.

As a matter of fact, before I purchased the 3910, I read somewhere that a review from another country was comparing the quality of it to ZP and FFDShow, and I agree.

So I guess I was right in saying that you cannot play a WMV in the 3910? Have you tried one yet? If not please do and let us know if it plays. Thanks

I used a Sharp 37" Aquos LCD TV for both the wmv disc (HTPC) and the DVD (Denon 3910). The Aquos has a resolution of 1,366-by-768, but in my computer the resolution is set to 1,024-by-768.

It makes sense that the wmv provides a better PQ: it is true high definition, while the DVD has a native resolution of only 480p, which is upscaled by the Denon.

Originally posted by Mary Ann
That's interesting. What screen were you using to watch the HTPC DVD on, a computer monitor? And if so what is the resolution of the monitor? If it was 1080p then I'm sure it looked better.

What screen were you watching the 3910 on? I feel that the 3910 produces the same excellent image that my souped up PC did with zoom player and FFDshow but like I said, I was just watching Step into Liquid HD DVD on a 1368 x 768 Sony HS20 LCD projector and a Samsung 1280 x 1024 LCD monitor. The two major differences were that the Denon cost slightly more than the HTPC and the Denon is easier for other family members to operate.

As a matter of fact, before I purchased the 3910, I read somewhere that a review from another country was comparing the quality of it to ZP and FFDShow, and I agree.

So I guess I was right in saying that you cannot play a WMV in the 3910? Have you tried one yet? If not please do and let us know if it plays. Thanks

Mary Ann,

Let me clarify something: one thing is the regular DVD played in a HTPC and another the WMV disc that it is sold or rented along the DVD (only in a few cases, such as STEP INTO LIQUID). The DVD has a maximum resolution of 480p. The WMV can have the same resolution as you display (up to 1080i, although my display can only display 720p). From you posting I follow that what you were using in both cases (the HTPC and the TV or LCD projector) was the DVD (not the WMV disc) and that explains why you didn't appreciate a significant difference between the two. In fact, I believe there is none, or if there is, it all depends on how you configure your equipment. By the way, you don't need any additional software to play wmv files (once you introduce the wmv disc, the PC auto plays it using Windows Media Player).

I built a dedicated HTPC, which is connected via DVI to the Aquos display. I also have the Denon 3910 connected to the Aquos (through HDMI). For wmv the HTPC is way superior. For regular DVDs, the two are about the same (with a lot of fine tuning the HTPC gives me a better picture, but the Denon is much easier to use for the rest of the family, plus its audio capabilities are awesome--sacd, dvda, etc.).

Santiago

Very interesting, thank you. I sold the HTPC but maybe when I get time I will hook up my main tower, DVI out, to the Sharp just to see what the WMV looks like. I wasn't going to hook up a PC to it because 37" at 9 feet back is too small for me to surf the net etc. I might eventually get another small LCD projector to play around with hooked up to PC anyway.

I agree on the audio side of the 3910 also. It's a double treat, great video and audio.

There will always be new DVD technologies coming out. We have our PC's that we can install and try these players into. I belive that the new Sony Playstation will have the Blue Ray Technology.

I was a little concerned, spending this much on a DVD player and then the technology changes, but the technology always changes and it seems like a new standard DVD technology is facing bumpy roads, along with cable cards and HDCP.

The 3910 is the main stay in the living room. Everyone loves it and I do not hear any complaints that it is not working, like when we used the HTPC.

Mary Ann,

Your comments about 720p v. 1080i are similar to many others in
the thread. I just got the DVI switch this week so that's what I
tried first.

This weekend I'm going to experiment with 1080i and decide which
looks best. Then I'm going to use DVE to tweak my picture.

I still am amazed how great DVDs look with DVI and 720p with NO
TWEAKING AT ALL yet!

/George

Greetings,


George, FYI I have had similar results with my LCD front projector connected via DVI set at 720p. You may want to calibrate using DVE prior to running the comparison. This will allow for proper sharpness, contrast, and brightness settings.


Good luck!


Regards,

Originally posted by ESPO
Boogie,

Are you saying the best stereo signal is always output through the L/R analogs and not the fl/fr 5.1, regardless of the disk type?

Must the 3910 be set for stereo downmix for this output to be active for sacd or does it always output mixed stereo?

On SACD recorded in 5.1 and stereo you can change from stereo to multichannel and back by the touch of a button. Read the manual page 26 - "Super audio CD setup button".

If using the stereo outs enter audio step and on setup change to 2ch (SRS off) or (SRS on) See page 9 and 21. And if multisource is played its downmixed so dont forget to change to stereo as mentioned above to use the second alyer of the hybrid SACD disc (norah jones f.ex.)

Basically my advice - read the entire manual be4 u ask around :D

Boogie

Originally posted by Mary Ann
mmmm, 1080p. Has anyone tried a WMV on their 3910 yet?
I converted from a HTPC to external components myself.

The Denon manual does not state that it can play Windows Media Video (WMV). Are there any other HD DVD movie available besides this format? I suspect the3910 won't or at the very best you will get 1080i. I played one of these disks on a HTPC with Zoom Player Pro tweeked to the max (FFDShow) connected to a Sony HS20 (max res of 1366 x 768) and the image was way softer than the standard DVD that came in the box (Step into Liquid).

Maybe someone else reading this has tried one of these HD movies, otherwise we will just have to rent one and try it.

Denon ONLY supports WMV AUDIO!
For WMV video u need a HTPC or an IO Data WMV player (with WLAN and more).


Originally posted by navarros
I tried the wmv STEP INTO LIQUID disc without Zoom Player (just Windows Media Player 10) in my HTPC. The image was way superior to the one produced by the regular 480p disc using a Denon 3910 with the HDMI connection (720p). More sharness, depth and definition in the wmv disc.

Of course a 720p or 1080i video signals is "better" (more detail) than a 480 vertical lines DVD (or 576 in europe) - especially if your projector has 720 vertical pixels or even better 1080 :D

//Boogie

Originally posted by JasonColeman
From Denon's reply to my e-mail:

To confirm the software version on the DVD3910:
1. Turn the small power button off on the front of the unit.
2. Hold down the PLAY and OPEN/CLOSE buttons on the front of the unit, both at the same time.
3. Turn the power back on and continue holding the buttons for 3 seconds, then let go.
4. After “>II LOADING” shows on the display, press the 3,2,6,5 buttons on the remote (in that order) and then press the MENU button to see the version.


For some reason, I'm am unable to get this procedure to work on my 3910. I pressed the "Play" and "Open/close" (with the unit powered off - small power button out) then while holding the buttons press the small power button to power on, then I waited anywhere from 3 seconds to 8 seconds and let go....then when the word "loading" is in the display (NOT: >II LOADING) I pressed the 3,2,6,5 buttons and then "Menu".....and nothing.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks in advance,

For some reason, I'm am unable to get this procedure to work on my 3910. I pressed the "Play" and "Open/close" (with the unit powered off - small power button out) then while holding the buttons press the small power button to power on, then I waited anywhere from 3 seconds to 8 seconds and let go....then when the word "loading" is in the display (NOT: >II LOADING) I pressed the 3,2,6,5 buttons and then "Menu".....and nothing.

Same happened to me on 2910 when I tried several times to check firmware version. I gave up and simply updated the firmware. After updating the firmware, the above procedure worked and gave me the firmware version, etc..

Also, don't use any universal remote; use 3910's remote.

Originally posted by [Europe]Boogiem
Basically my advice - read the entire manual be4 u ask around :D

Boogie
That's kind of a crappy response. It was a valid question, and the manual (like all Denon manuals) sucks serious butthole. Broken english, gnarly sentences, and translated nonsense. I've read the entire manual 3 or 4 times and I've still got plenty of questions.

Jason

someone should jump on these quick.
http://forum.**********/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5411

muncey

Thanks. Got the last one!

Good for you, thats a great deal. They went in 50 minutes.
I would have went for it but i already have a zenith 318.
Just so happens i work in the city of Orange, small world isn't it.

muncey

Originally posted by muncey
Good for you, thats a great deal. They went in 50 minutes.
hehehe... Thanks, I lurk on av123 more than here, but would have missed this if you hadn't posted it to a thread to which I was subscribed.
I would have went for it but i already have a zenith 318.
This will replace my Bravo D2, now fated to go on Ebay. :)
Just so happens i work in the city of Orange, small world isn't it.

Yup. Wanna come over and help me hook it up? :)

It will go great with my Rocket RS1000s and Emotiva twins, not to mention my Sony HS10 and Firehawk screen. :D

Rocket RS1000's, Im jealous, and the Twins also. Sounds like you have quite the audio set-up. I have a 7.1 system with RS550's, RSC200, RS300's and RS150's in the rear powered by a HK 7200. I had the HS10 prior to the Benq 8700+ on a 110" Carada BW screen. Zenith 318, Panasonic RP-62 and a Voom STB. I sure you can hook it up yourself but I would like to see the 1000's and the twins someday.

muncey

If using the stereo outs enter audio step and on setup change to 2ch (SRS off) or (SRS on) See page 9 and 21. And if multisource is played its downmixed so dont forget to change to stereo as mentioned above to use the second alyer of the hybrid SACD disc (norah jones f.ex.)

Basically my advice - read the entire manual be4 u ask around :D

Boogie

That's always good advice, but I did read the manual before I asked the question. It states to use downmix if connecting the 5.1 analog fl/fr to a 2ch stereo. For the 5.1 outputs it is clear that downmix is necessary for stereo and I assume that the downmix is hi-rez, but i am not sure. My question is what is output from the mixed l/r (large)analog outputs when playing sacd and dvd-a? Is it hi-rez stereo or cd rez? and is it necessary to switch to downmix when using these outputs?

The manual contains a detailed table showing the various digital output resolutions when playing various disks. The same would be helpful to clarify what is output from the mixed stereo outputs.

Thanks again.

Mine is RS1000's, RSC200, RSS300's, and RS250's.

Yeah, I don't know either whether or not the 2-channel outs output hi-rez or standard 2-channel audio. If using just front L & R speakers, should you connect to the front L & R of the 5.1 or the 2-channel? The manual does not address this (shocking!).

Jason

Originally posted by JasonColeman
Yeah, I don't know either whether or not the 2-channel outs output hi-rez or standard 2-channel audio. If using just front L & R speakers, should you connect to the front L & R of the 5.1 or the 2-channel? The manual does not address this (shocking!).

Jason

I believe these outputs work as follows,

The regular 2ch L&R outputs standard Redbook CD 44.1/16. If you tell the machine to downmix a HiRez source(if the source allows it) it will send the downmixed signal through these outputs. SACD playback can only be done through the 5.1 analog outputs whether it is 2ch or Mch. If you listen to both HiRez and standard CD you would want to have both sets of outputs hooked up. Now if you are using a Denon Link then it becomes a moot point for everything other than SACD unless you're using IEEE1394 which will carry SACD signals.

Jim

The THX Goldfinger disk refuses to play in my 3910. I took it to my dealer and it will not play on their 3910, either. It plays fine on my old Sony DVP-S7000 and on their 1910 (they didn't have a 2910 in stock). My 3910 has the latest firmware applied.

If anyone owns this disk and cares to validate this, you'll need the dual layer single sided version of Goldfinger (where one layer is pan&scan and the other is 16x9). The catalog number is 906726. It will play the startup screen (aspect ratio selection), then the MGM "splash" clip, then the THX "splash" clip before it crashes. Right after the THX segment ends, the UA clip starts and, at this point, the video goes black (sometimes returning for a moment or two) and the sound is choppy or non-existent. Press the Top Menu or Menu does not restore it (although it appears to return to the menu). I have to open/close the drawer to restore it. I suspect that the laser is somehow mis-focused until then.

The good news is that I was unable to find another disk like this (at least in my collection), that is, one with two layers where one layer is "standard" and the other is "widescreen". Hopefully it is the only disk that the 3910 will not play.

I'll send a note to their technical support.

--Larry

Originally posted by keenan
I believe these outputs work as follows,

The regular 2ch L&R outputs standard Redbook CD 44.1/16. If you tell the machine to downmix a HiRez source(if the source allows it) it will send the downmixed signal through these outputs. SACD playback can only be done through the 5.1 analog outputs whether it is 2ch or Mch. If you listen to both HiRez and standard CD you would want to have both sets of outputs hooked up. Now if you are using a Denon Link then it becomes a moot point for everything other than SACD unless you're using IEEE1394 which will carry SACD signals.

Jim

Sorry, but this is confusing, and I think incorrect. I may be wrong, but I believe you can hook up 2 analog interconnects to the 2ch output and still choose between high res and redbook 2ch output in the menu (no need to hook up 2 interconnects to the 5.1 L&R). Thus, the 2ch L&R outputs will play whatever you tell it to output (high res or redbook) - you do not have to go through the 5.1 analog to get SACD (2ch analog will also play SACD).

Okay, so taking a 3805 for example, by sending the 2ch SACD signal to the CD inputs on the 3805 you can then apply EQ and DSP processing? I think, and I could be wrong, not arguing with you, but in order to send SACD over those L&R outputs the signal would have to downmixed or down-rezzed, no?

In other words, to get the full HiRez SACD signal you would have to use the analog 5.1 outs...I'm not sure anymore..

All SACDs have a 2ch SACD track and a multi ch track (SACD hybrids also have a redbook layer). I believe the L&R analog outputs will play anything you tell them to play (high res or redbook), although I admit the manual is not very clear. I'm going to send Denon an email tomorrow to make sure. I can hear a difference on my Rolling Stones Hotrocks hybrid SACD between the redbook and SACD 2 ch output (and I only have interconnects plugged into the L&R outputs). The easiest way to tell is to play a pure non-hybrid SACD. Since there is no redbook track, you would get no sound over 2 ch L&R if it cannot play high res. I don't have any SACDs to try it myself (I only have redbooks and SACD hybrids).

Okay, cool. So you are switching the output format at the player instead of just leaving it in "multi"?

I agree about the manual...:confused:

Again, I may be wrong about this. My interpretation of the manual is that in the audio setup, you can tell the player to preferentially play either redbook, 2ch SACD, or multi ch SACD as the default. You can also, with a simple press of the SACD setup button (on either the front panel or the remote), change your mind for what you are currently playing, but when you turn off the player, it will change back to the default you set in audio setup. If the player cannot play what you tell it to (if you ask for SACD, but insert a redbook CD), it will automatically play redbook.

Since I have a 2 ch stereo system, I have SACD Stereo as my default, with my 2 RCA interconnects plugged into the 2 ch outputs. I will email Denon to make sure this will output high res, but based on my own ears, I really think it does. On the other hand, then why would the manual refer to 2 ch output using the 5.1 outputs?

Originally posted by keenan
Okay, so taking a 3805 for example, by sending the 2ch SACD signal to the CD inputs on the 3805 you can then apply EQ and DSP processing? I think, and I could be wrong, not arguing with you, but in order to send SACD over those L&R outputs the signal would have to downmixed or down-rezzed, no?

In other words, to get the full HiRez SACD signal you would have to use the analog 5.1 outs...I'm not sure anymore..


The hi-rez signals are processed in the digital domain. Once they are converted to analog they do not carry a hi-rez discription any longer, they are just closer to the original analog signal recorded. you can process this sacd analog signal in your dsp but it must be converted back to digital, in which case, depending on the quality of your adc's and dac's, the signal will lose quality when it is again converted back to analog.

Hopefully Denon will get back to you soon, because now I am really starting to get confused, I'm going to have to do some listening tests myself..

Larry the 3910 I owned was not able to play MGM's "Back to School" and started to develop problems with all my discs after the layer change so I returned it to the store.

Originally posted by ESPO
The hi-rez signals are processed in the digital domain. Once they are converted to analog they do not carry a hi-rez discription any longer, they are just closer to the original analog signal recorded. you can process this sacd analog signal in your dsp but it must be converted back to digital, in which case, depending on the quality of your adc's and dac's, the signal will lose quality when it is again converted back to analog.

Now I'm confused. I thought analog is the only way you can listen to SACD due to copyright issues with Sony. Or do you mean if you process the signal, you lose quality? That I would agree with (you are generally better off just passing the sound through a receiver or preamp - some have "direct" paths, bypassing the processing, for better sound).

I recently got the Denon 3910 and flashed the firmware to make it code free.

I am very happy with its performace in audio (DVD-A) and video (DVDs and DVD-Rs), but I wasn't able to get any sound from the only SACD that I have: a Deutsche Grammophon's recording of Anne-Sophie Mutter playing violin with the New York Philarmonic.

I believe I tried all possible settings combinations with no success. By the way, changing the audio settings doesnt' make any difference with DVD-As (the 3910 plays everything in this format).

I am using coaxial cable to my Harman Kardon AV 7200 and DVI to HDMI going to my Sharp Aquos. I will soon receive an HDMI to HDMI cable to replace the one I have.

Any suggestion?
:confused:

Originally posted by navarros
I am very happy with its performace in audio (DVD-A) and video (DVDs and DVD-Rs), but I wasn't able to get any sound from the only SACD that I have: a Deutsche Grammophon's recording of Anne-Sophie Mutter playing violin with the New York Philarmonic.
m using coaxial cable to my Harman Kardon AV 7200 and DVI to HDMI going to my Sharp Aquos. I will soon receive an HDMI to HDMI cable to replace the one I have.


SACD can't go over SPDIF (neither coaxil nor Toslink will work); there just isn't enough bandwidth. Your only choices for SACD are the 5.1 analog outputs on the back (which I was, and they sound terrific) or firewire (which I haven't tried).

Erik

Keenan,
On page 15 of the manual, it clearly shows the 2ch outputs being used for connecting to a stereo system. I'll let you know when I hear back from Denon.

Originally posted by BillP
Now I'm confused. I thought analog is the only way you can listen to SACD due to copyright issues with Sony. Or do you mean if you process the signal, you lose quality? That I would agree with (you are generally better off just passing the sound through a receiver or preamp - some have "direct" paths, bypassing the processing, for better sound).


IMO you are right on both accounts. Since we are referring to the stereo analog output that is already processed from the hi-rez sacd, it can be input to your 3805 and again processed through your dsp. But I agree this will probably result in a loss of sound quality.

Originally posted by ewtroan
SACD can't go over SPDIF (neither coaxil nor Toslink will work); there just isn't enough bandwidth. Your only choices for SACD are the 5.1 analog outputs on the back (which I was, and they sound terrific) or firewire (which I haven't tried).

Erik

Erik,

In case I use the 5.1 anlog outputs for SACD, do I need to change the settings of the player whenever I want to play a DVD-A using my coaxial digital cable? That would be a pain in the neck (especially for the rest of the family). Can both SACD and DVD-A be played through firewire? Because, in that case I may consider to upgrade my AV Receiver, instead of investing on more high-quality cables (the back of my system looks like a forest of cables).

Thank you for help,
Santiago

From Navarros

"In case I use the 5.1 anlog outputs for SACD, do I need to change the settings of the player whenever I want to play a DVD-A using my coaxial digital cable? That would be a pain in the neck (especially for the rest of the family). Can both SACD and DVD-A be played through firewire? Because, in that case I may consider to upgrade my AV Receiver, instead of investing on more high-quality cables (the back of my system looks like a forest of cables). "

Santiago -

You only need to change the input setting on your receiver to 5.1 when playing SACDs. You don't need need to change the player settings.
But, your may want to try the pure analog setting on the 3910 with SACDs.
The manual explains the benefits of this which may or may not be perceptable to you.

Good luck.

/George

Originally posted by BillP
Keenan,
On page 15 of the manual, it clearly shows the 2ch outputs being used for connecting to a stereo system. I'll let you know when I hear back from Denon.

Yeah, I see that, but are they sending decoded 2ch SACD through those outputs? That is the question we're trying to get the answer for right?

If you look at this block diagram it would seem that they do, but there is not enough detail there to be sure, I'm guessing the designation "mixed" indicates they are passing both types of signals...

It just seems odd to me that 2ch SACD can be further processed by an external pre/pro/recvr whereas almost all 5.1 inputs on those same devices will not do that. Hopefully we get a clear answer from Denon.

Jim :confused:

Originally posted by navarros
[BCan both SACD and DVD-A be played through firewire?

Thank you for help,
Santiago [/B]

Yes, in fact IEEE1394 is the only interface that is capable of all types of digital signals from the 3910. By doing so though you may be forsaking a better digital-to-analog section in the player. Depends on the equipment involved on personal choice...

So where's the resident expert on this when we need him, Mr.(Europe)? I think we've all read the manual, yet nobody knows for sure what the answer is. I'll be spending some serious time with my 3910/3805 combo this weekend (as I don't have work commitments :D), so I'll chime in with what I can discern.

It just goes to show that we should ask questions (even if they're seemingly unnecessary)...it also proves that Denon manuals really do suck (like we needed the proof :D)!

Jason

navarros,
You are not getting the benefits of DVD-A if you aren't using the analoge outputs on the 3910...you are hearing the Dolby Digital stream on your DVD-A discs.

Dave

Wonder if anyone knows whether the gold colour Denon 3910 has the latest firmware? Serial no. is 4088400139E.

Regards.

Hi,

I am haveing an audio problem with the Denon 3910 over iLink, I posted it here on this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=466181&referrerid=7459668) but was told this would be a better thread to post in, as it is read more often.

in a big nutshell:
(QUOTE)
"I have come across, so it seems, a 'glitch' in the DVD player.

The setup is a 3910 connected to a Z9 via iLink/IEEE1394/Firewire using the bundled cable.

Now, the following only seems to have happened so far on DVD videos, in particular:

Abyss
Predator 2
The Colour Purple
Toy Story 2
And I now sit and watch every movie waiting for the glitch, ruins the experience!

The problem is, at random, the audio seems to cut out for a split second. This cannot be reproduced in the same spot on the DVD, it just seems to happen here, there, anywhere, whenever. It happened roughly 10 times on the mentioned DVD's.

I also know, or am 99.99% certain it is not the Z9. Reason being, the Z9 always has a signal input and it doesn't flicker as if signal is lost. Also, the cut-out is too quick to be the Z9 loosing the signal. It seems to me that the 3910, in its processing seems to be adding these glitches to the actual audio signal itself, or there is something in the iLink connection not setup right, by me or by Denon."
(QUOTE)

If you could help me out or have any clues as to what may be the cause, please let me know. (post here or in the other thread, doesn't worry me, though this thread is getting quite long and i've read it from post 1 :))

Update: i just got a new Sony iLink cable, so i am not using the Denon one anymore, i'll watch a few more movies and see what happenes, though i don't see that this should change anything.

thankyou

Cheers
KJ

{EDIT} where did the posts inbetween mine go??? i didn't post three in a row. odd?? {EDIT}

you may want to read this thread concerning SACD's.
It has a bit more on the problem i am having, but also talks about the 3910 and iLink/Firewire/IEEE1394 and what actualy works :)

iLink too good to be true thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=461268&referrerid=7459668)
cheers
KJ

{EDIT} where did the posts inbetween mine go??? i didn't post three in a row. odd?? {EDIT}

Originally posted by ESPO
Page 18 of the manual states the 3910 is not compatible with Sony iLink. It seems to further state that you should use the supplied firewire cable and there are no guarantees that you will have problem free audio!

After reading page 18, I don't believe Denon has much confidence in this first attempt at firewire?

Firstly, about the non use of a sony iLink cable, i cannot see how this can be completely true.
Just from my experience with computers, the Firewire IEEE 1394 cable is just only that, an IEEE1394 cable. Yes they have different ratings but there is a standard, and, it is or it isn't up to it. It is just a form of connecting devices together. iLink has been aroud a fair while before audio components started to use it :)
As someone stated above eariler, the manual isn't all to crash hot, i personally read it about three times for referance/guidance and then see what really happens :)

But to back up the use of another iLink cable, i have just been listening to music, SACD and DVD-A and CD's, using the new cable with the 3910 and Z9:) works fine, no problems at all. Still have to see what happens with movies, though i expect no difference from before.

Anyway, I do not believe that the problem has to do with the cabling at all. (could be wrong)

Is there something else that may be causing this. Or do you just think that Denon need to work a bit more to get the iLink up to scratch, maybe with new firmware? though why does it seem to work perfectly fine with any other audio other than DVD-V. And even then, it has only been very few DVD's so far. They also seem to be older DVD's.

thanks for the comments,
cheers
KJ

There was one person a little while ago who also had dropouts with i.Link. He said he unplugged the cable, and cleaned out both ends of the cable and the two connectors and he said that fixed the problem for him. fwiw.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Krazykaj
[B]{EDIT} where did the posts inbetween mine go??? i didn't post three in a row. odd?? {EDIT}

Sorry. I was editing my post and I must have deleted it. It was kind of late for me :o

Can someone tell me if the 3910's DVI/HDMI output at 720p & 1080i conforms to the SD or HD color matrix standard?

Here is my problem. Synch via DVI makes picture appear 1 second and then it disapears again. Tries to resynch and 1 sec picture and loose synch again and so on.

Have tried 2 different Denon DVD-3910 via DVI.
One with firmware upgraded to region free as below:
ESS: 6609-5
Mday: 831
Drv: 030825
Sys: 6767-2
DSP: 6770
CNE: 20040609

and one with the old / non region free firmware.
Oh and I am using a European version of the player (originally reion 2)

None of the players will Synch with my PJ or plasma below:
- Proj InFocus LS110 (SP110) - is HDCP compatible
- Plasma Sony PFM-42V1N.

The cables i have tried is:
- 3 meters Acoustic Zen $220
- 2 meters GeFen (not optic version)

Why is that - the length cant be the problem so what could it be.
Have searched a lot of threads and only found one guy with the same problem so i am really hoping for your help here.

----------------------------

* Other issues (annoyments) that i have found with the player:

- When playing SACD multi plus stereo-channel discs: The player does not automatically change from multi to stereo on a disc that contains e.g. 5 multi and 5 stereo tracks. You have to 1. stop playing - 2, change to SACDstereo - 3. start playing (even my old Philips DVD963SA managed to autmatically sense this).

- When outputting multichannel sound from the stereo plus multichannel sub outputs to Denon AVR3805 you get no sub information unless "Bass Enhancer" is set to on - if you want to run pure direct BassEnhancer is disabled so the only way to get sub in 2 channel mode is to use "NOT pure direct" but rather go via AL24 processing. Is that a bad thing for the sound?

- When outputting multichannel sound in "Pure direct" mode the bass level is VERY LOW for my front left and right - raising LFE level to 10 doesnt matter since lfe is not used in the mode (se above comment) and upping the LFE in the AVR-3805 doen not help either since it is not recieving LFE :(.
How to solve this i dont know unless i want to temporary change EQ in AVR3805 but since i use Pure direct then this does not help either (sigh).

- Minor details: Very slow start up, very slow tray eject, very slow chapter back.

Seems like Denon made a good picture machine but with A LOT OF ISSUES :(

Regards
Boogieman

Hi Boogiem,

I had similar problem as well. Using 3910 via DVI with a IF7200. Can you update here how you solve this issue with the 1 sec picture and loose synch again?


Originally posted by [Europe]Boogiem
Here is my problem. Synch via DVI makes picture appear 1 second and then it disapears again. Tries to resynch and 1 sec picture and loose synch again and so on.

Have tried 2 different Denon DVD-3910 via DVI.
One with firmware upgraded to region free as below:
ESS: 6609-5
Mday: 831
Drv: 030825
Sys: 6767-2
DSP: 6770
CNE: 20040609

and one with the old / non region free firmware.
Oh and I am using a European version of the player (originally reion 2)

None of the players will Synch with my PJ or plasma below:
- Proj InFocus LS110 (SP110) - is HDCP compatible
- Plasma Sony PFM-42V1N.

The cables i have tried is:
- 3 meters Acoustic Zen $220
- 2 meters GeFen (not optic version)

Why is that - the length cant be the problem so what could it be.
Have searched a lot of threads and only found one guy with the same problem so i am really hoping for your help here.

----------------------------

I really need help from the 3910 onwers here. I'm in the process of upgrading my system that currently consists of a Sony DVP-S7700, Playstation 2 and an 18 years old Yamaha AX-500 integrated amp (I know... ). I just got the Denon 3910 and I plan on getting the 4802(R) replacement next year. So, I connect the new 3910 to the Yamaha in the mean time.

My Yamaha AX-500 has the following inputs: phono, CD, tuner, video/aux, tape 1, and tape 2 plus a CD direct switch. It doesn't have any digital inputs such as optical or coax. I connect all devices using regular RCA cables. The Yamaha AX-500 is quiet at all volume level when the 7700 and/or PS2 are connected only (via their analog outputs). Once the Denon 3910 is connected via its analog outputs, the Yamaha generates a small but noticeable humming noise immediately (even when the volume knob is turned all the way down). This humming noice sounds like the noice generated when a turntable is not properly grounded. I disconnect the PS2, humming persists. Then I disconnect the 7700, the humming is gone, my Yamaha is quiet again.

In summary, when the 3910 and any combinations of the other two Sony devices are connected, my Yamaha gives a humming noice. To keep the Yamaha quiet with the 3910, I have to disconnect both Sony devices. If the 3910 is not connected, my Yamaha is also quiet even when both Sony devices are connected.

What is that humming noise? What would be possible cause? Do I have a faulty 3910? How can I verify if my 3910 is faulty? I got my 3910 from a local authorized dealer and I can go back to exchange within 30 days. If it is because time is almost up with my Yamaha, I'll just wait till next year to get the 4802(R) replacement. So, I would appreciate if anyone can shed some light here. Thank you.

-- loeric

Originally posted by Technic
Hi Boogiem,

I had similar problem as well. Using 3910 via DVI with a IF7200. Can you update here how you solve this issue with the 1 sec picture and loose synch again?

I dont know how to solve it - I am hoping for Denon - or more likely the Swedsih retailer to come up with an answer.
I think they know its an issue since they also had one PJ that did not synch with the 3910 in the demo booth.

I hope Denon sharpens up at this point. Or else it might start out as a good story with a lot of good reviews and critics. Albeit it is a good machine but for 1100 Euro uou should get a FLAWLESS machine in my eyes. Ok if you buy a 100 Euro player at the supermarket that is one thing (allthough thoose seem to work better - probably due to less electronics inside).

IF I will get an answer though - I will post it here.

Regards
Boogieman

Originally posted by loeric
Then I disconnect the 7700, the humming is gone, my Yamaha is quiet again.

In summary, when the 3910 and any combinations of the other two Sony devices are connected, my Yamaha gives a humming noice. To keep the Yamaha quiet with the 3910, I have to disconnect both Sony devices. If the 3910 is not connected, my Yamaha is also quiet even when both Sony devices are connected.

1. What is that humming noise?
2. What would be possible cause?
3. Do I have a faulty 3910?
-- loeric

1. Sounds like a ground loop problem

2. Is the Sony 7700 some kid of reciever to which you connect an aerial antenna. If so try disconnectiong the antenna ONLY and keep the rest of the equipment connected. If the humming disapperas it is most likely an antenna ground loop.
Can easily be solved - read this
Page (http://www.epanorama.net/documents/groundloop/antenna_isolator.html) on how to make your own or buy one from the electonci shop.
More info about ground loop issues can be found HERE (http://www.epanorama.net/documents/groundloop/index.html)
Also try connecting all of your devices to one wall socket (so that all the equipment gets the power from the same socket via extension sockets).
If a PJ is connected when having a ground loop problem often there is picture influence like waving or some kind of horizontal running shadows in the picture.

3. Probalby not.

Regards
Boogieman

- When outputting multichannel sound from the stereo plus multichannel sub outputs to Denon AVR3805 you get no sub information unless "Bass Enhancer" is set to on - if you want to run pure direct BassEnhancer is disabled so the only way to get sub in 2 channel mode is to use "NOT pure direct" but rather go via AL24 processing. Is that a bad thing for the sound?

Dude, this is how it's supposed to work. "Pure direct" means all speakers large, sub on. With a stereo disc, there *is* no sub or LFE info.

- When outputting multichannel sound in "Pure direct" mode the bass level is VERY LOW for my front left and right -

And for this, you are getting exactly what is in the front L & R channels on the disc *to* your front L & R speakers. That's not a problem with the 3910. If the bass doesn't seem to be loud enough, maybe your front L & R speakers do not have low enough extension. In that case, you probably should be using the BM in the player and forget about "pure direct" mode. The difference in sound quality is just not that large.

Originally posted by Kevin C Brown
1. Dude, this is how it's supposed to work. "Pure direct" means all speakers large, sub on. With a stereo disc, there *is* no sub or LFE info.

2. And for this, you are getting exactly what is in the front L & R channels on the disc *to* your front L & R speakers. That's not a problem with the 3910. If the bass doesn't seem to be loud enough, maybe your front L & R speakers do not have low enough extension. In that case, you probably should be using the BM in the player and forget about "pure direct" mode. The difference in sound quality is just not that large.

1. I know there is no sub on 2 channel audio (then it would be 2.1) - nevertheless if you run DenonLink with 2 channel the sub is active and this makes the sound nicer and fuller. Maybe since the AVR3805 then uses the built in SUB filter and not when inputting to Ext.In. Guess that is the reason to the diversity between the 2.

2. Running JBL ti6K fronts - not the biggest bass elements (dual 6 1/2 incers said to go as low as 38Hz but then i bet there aint a lot of sound pressure at that level ;) ) JBL Ti6K (http://www.jbl.com/home/products/product_detail.asp?ProdId=TI6KBE&SerId=TIK&sCatId=)
Anyway - I want the LFE part redirected to the Sub and run the Ti6Ks as small speakers (giving sub the sub 100Hz info since it is of course better at handling the low frequencies) The sub is a REL Q150. So the Pure Direct is not an option but rather ill have to use the "bass enhance mode". I wonder what it does more than redirecting some LFE to sub though - it sounds like a "party mode" in my ears :S.

----------------------------

Tried the DVD3910 Component vs my Philips DVD963SA component fed with DVE 2-day. Sad 2 say there is no bigger visible difference in picture. Only the green push problem with the philly but that i have temporarily fixed with the RGB controll of the PJ. Am about to do the progressive board mod (short circuit one capacitor and it should be history with green push).

Really dont understand how the 3910 can be that praised for video qual over component. It has a LOT of edge tinging between colour bars for example. Also it has edge noise on dark objects against light backgrouds like faces against sky.

The very minor advantages of the 3910:
- 6500K closer to perfect due to philly green push
- DPIC actually works quite nice when kept low - ok it brings some xtra edge tinging but really not too much (one haft to stare to see it).

Disadvantages of 3910:
- Grayscale more sensitive for contrast - contrast had to be turned down to get the full grescale compared to philly.
- More edge tinging at faces against bright background (philly is sensational at this point after turning of natural motion (i think it was called - duh i just forgot :s)


But then again the philly ruled the midprice marketwhen it came out about 2 years ago :D And in my eyes it is still as good as the Den over component.
Over DVI I could not thest it due to synch problems (DENON needs to fix this ASAP). I guess the edge tnging should disapear here and the 6500K should become 100% perfect (at least thats what happened when i tried out a Samsung HD935 - 100% perfect 6500K and a lot less edge tinging. Allthough the picture wasnt as great as the den or the philly either way :D

Boogieman

Originally posted by [Europe]Boogiem
1. Sounds like a ground loop problem

2. Is the Sony 7700 some kid of reciever to which you connect an aerial antenna. If so try disconnectiong the antenna ONLY and keep the rest of the equipment connected. If the humming disapperas it is most likely an antenna ground loop.
Can easily be solved - read this
Page (http://www.epanorama.net/documents/groundloop/antenna_isolator.html) on how to make your own or buy one from the electonci shop.
More info about ground loop issues can be found HERE (http://www.epanorama.net/documents/groundloop/index.html)
Also try connecting all of your devices to one wall socket (so that all the equipment gets the power from the same socket via extension sockets).
If a PJ is connected when having a ground loop problem often there is picture influence like waving or some kind of horizontal running shadows in the picture.

3. Probalby not.

Regards

Boogieman


Thank you for your reply, Boogieman.

The Sony 7700 is not a receiver. It is my other DVD player - Sony DVP-S7700. How would that change the possible cause and solution of the the humming noise?

-- loeric

Plese do read about humming in the attatched webpage links to see if that helps.

Regards
Boogieman

Another thing that i have realised, after reading around a bit more; the problem does seem (so far) to only be on Dolby Digital tracks. Does this mean anything?

thanks

cheers
KJ

All of you with 3910 sync problems over dvi should contact denon technical support at http://www.denon.co.uk and give them specific details, then they can sort it out, I have and they were most receptive to the information I gave them - my fault is with a Toshiba MT8 projector

M

Originally posted by mark antony
All of you with 3910 sync problems over dvi should contact denon technical support at http://www.denon.co.uk and give them specific details, then they can sort it out, I have and they were most receptive to the information I gave them - my fault is with a Toshiba MT8 projector

M

Most certainly will - they should know that their product need to be fixed.
Will also report in coments about what else is bad on the player at the same time.
But I guess it will take som time be4 the issue is fixed :(

The reseller will take care of it they said (denon distributor in Sweden) but i am thinking of sending an email to german Denon as well since i belive that they get their machnes from there.

Boogie

Originally posted by [Europe]Boogiem


Seems like Denon made a good picture machine but with A LOT OF ISSUES :(

Regards
Boogieman [/B]

As always!

Espen

Originally posted by Larry Newcomb
The THX Goldfinger disk refuses to play in my 3910. I took it to my dealer and it will not play on their 3910, either. It plays fine on my old Sony DVP-S7000 and on their 1910 (they didn't have a 2910 in stock). My 3910 has the latest firmware applied.

If anyone owns this disk and cares to validate this, you'll need the dual layer single sided version of Goldfinger (where one layer is pan&scan and the other is 16x9). The catalog number is 906726. It will play the startup screen (aspect ratio selection), then the MGM "splash" clip, then the THX "splash" clip before it crashes. Right after the THX segment ends, the UA clip starts and, at this point, the video goes black (sometimes returning for a moment or two) and the sound is choppy or non-existent. Press the Top Menu or Menu does not restore it (although it appears to return to the menu). I have to open/close the drawer to restore it. I suspect that the laser is somehow mis-focused until then.

The good news is that I was unable to find another disk like this (at least in my collection), that is, one with two layers where one layer is "standard" and the other is "widescreen". Hopefully it is the only disk that the 3910 will not play.

I'll send a note to their technical support.

--Larry

I have another disc of this type; LBX & P&S on the same side (Cruel Intentions); and it plays...

Has anybody the combination Denon 3910 / Panasonic TH-42PHD6UY via DVI?

The problem I have is that I have loads of green dots in the display - which can be seen extremely clear in the black bars (every 5th dot or so is green) - but that might be a known problem if I refer to earlier threads. IS there any cure for it?

If there is somebody with that set-up - can he specify the settings of his Panny (PM me)? I tried to calibrate mine last night with Avia but was not extremely successfull. Thanks.

I've posted a bug with that projector:
http://*******.com/4warh

Bye,
zan.

Originally posted by michael1957

One thing I am confused by is the SOURCE DIRECT option. Can anyone enlighten me on exactly what it does, and when it should be used?

The manual says setting it to 'on' turns off speaker settings (like 'large' and delay settings I presume?); and also turns off 'channel level processing' (does this just mean it turns off the gain you can set in the speaker setup?).

And what does it mean when it says 'the DTS recommended all-channel, full bandwidth playback'? (p. 41). Does that mean it is recommended to use this if you selects a DTS soundtrack?

Thanks in advance for any info.

This question was asked a few weeks ago, and I couldn't find an answer. I too am confused by p. 41 of the manual (I admit I'm probably in over my head when it comes to the 3910, which I set up last weekend).

The manual says that with Bass Enhancement set to off, the subwoofer will have no output. Is this only for certain discs? Here are the results I got while watching Shrek in Dolby Digital, using the 6 ch. output in all cases(testing with some bass heavy scenes):

Source Direct ON (no bass enhancement by default) - no subwoofer output.
- The manual says that source direct on enables DTS recommended all-channel full bandwith playback. Is this only for certain discs? I certainly was not getting anything out of my sub.

Source Direct OFF, Speakers LARGE, Bass Enhancement OFF - no subwoofer output, even though subwoofer was set to "yes" in speaker configuration

Source Direct ON, Speakers Small, Bass Enhancement OFF or ON - In this setup, I get output from my sub, regardless of the Bass Enhancement setting. Bass Enhancement boosts it, but it is definitely there even without bass enhancement, which seems to conflict with the description of the Bass Enhancement feature on p. 41, although again I can't really figure out what they're talking about.

So I'm sure I'm misinterpreting something, just not sure what. And what would be the preferred (i.e. most accurate) setup for a DD movie?

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.

Hi TJK, I am very confused by that page also so I just tried all of the settings and then listened to the output of a mulitichannel DVD and a movie via toslink. It is very difficult to get the bass at the same output for CDs, DVD movies and multi-channel audio (DVD Audio). I still have to manually turn my Velodyne Sub up when I listen to certain 5.1 concerts on HDTV etc and CDs. This is not a fault of the Denon. The material is so different between all of the formats.

I have found the best resullts by setting my speakers to small (although my Paradigm mini-monitors for surround sound went to large during auto-set of my reciever and they sound so good I don't want to change them) and turning on the +10 SW boost. This is more than enough bass for movies and just right for DVD Audio. I had to set up my reciever also. I did the auto set with a mic and then I had to only tweek the subwoofer volume and distance. I like a lot of bass.

Set your Denon and reciever to what you play the most first. Use your auto setup equipment if your system has any and then use a SPL meter and/or your ears to make final adjustments. You'll be fine.

Originally posted by Mary Ann
Hi TJK, I am very confused by that page also so I just tried all of the settings and then listened to the output of a mulitichannel DVD and a movie via toslink. It is very difficult to get the bass at the same output for CDs, DVD movies and multi-channel audio (DVD Audio). I still have to manually turn my Velodyne Sub up when I listen to certain 5.1 concerts on HDTV etc and CDs. This is not a fault of the Denon. The material is so different between all of the formats.

I have found the best resullts by setting my speakers to small (although my Paradigm mini-monitors for surround sound went to large during auto-set of my reciever and they sound so good I don't want to change them) and turning on the +10 SW boost. This is more than enough bass for movies and just right for DVD Audio. I had to set up my reciever also. I did the auto set with a mic and then I had to only tweek the subwoofer volume and distance. I like a lot of bass.

Set your Denon and reciever to what you play the most first. Use your auto setup equipment if your system has any and then use a SPL meter and/or your ears to make final adjustments. You'll be fine.

Thanks Mary Ann. I actually have calibrated everyting with Avia. My receiver is a 3802, a couple of generations old, so I've been using the ext. output of the 3910 rather than the digital output. I've been happy with the results for DD without bass enhancement, having calibrated the ouptut of my sub with it turned off.

My concern is, given the results I've got in the various source direct/bass enhancement modes, is there something wrong with my player, something wrong with Denon's explanations, or something wrong with me?:)

I just got my 3910 yesterday. I'm using HDMI-HDMI with a Sony KDF-60XS955 LCD RPTV. I have the interface configured to use HDMI Y Cb Cr.

My serial number is really low so I definitely need the firmware update. I noticed halos around the fish in Nemo. But didn't notice that effect on any other titles. I've ordered the CD...

To my eyes, the picture looks best at 1080i. I know this requires more processing by both the 3910 and my TV, but the results are just a little more defined, a little more detailed. At 720p things look a little softer. To me. Anyone else feel this way even though it may be counterintuitive based upon what the deinterlacer is suposed to be doing?

Haven't tried the DVD-A or SACD yet. Hopefully today. Very happy with this player though. Huge upgrade in PQ from the DVD-2900 that it replaced (again IMO).

Philco-

I'm very interested in your continuing impressions of the 3910 with your Sony XS TV. I've been eyeing that TV for a bit and I think I'll pick it up, but I want to make sure that the PQ and performance justify the expense. Have you tried other resolutions?

Jason

Originally posted by [Europe]Boogiem
I dont know how to solve it - I am hoping for Denon - or more likely the Swedsih retailer to come up with an answer.
I think they know its an issue since they also had one PJ that did not synch with the 3910 in the demo booth.

I hope Denon sharpens up at this point. Or else it might start out as a good story with a lot of good reviews and critics. Albeit it is a good machine but for 1100 Euro uou should get a FLAWLESS machine in my eyes. Ok if you buy a 100 Euro player at the supermarket that is one thing (allthough thoose seem to work better - probably due to less electronics inside).

IF I will get an answer though - I will post it here.

Regards
Boogieman

Boogieman, seems like 3910 got hell of lots of sync issue with your projector and mine.

I actually tried a 2910 on my IF7200 and the result is the same! Still the "1 sec picture appears and goes off again" problem. First I thought the problems lies with my Infocus projector, but upon reading your post I figure out this is a Denon issue.

Currently I am using a 10m DVI cable which have this problem. Yesterday I tried changing the DVI cable to 5m but the problem still persist.

By the way, is your 3910 gold or silver colour? Mine is gold. :mad:

Originally posted by JasonColeman
Philco-

I'm very interested in your continuing impressions of the 3910 with your Sony XS TV. I've been eyeing that TV for a bit and I think I'll pick it up, but I want to make sure that the PQ and performance justify the expense. Have you tried other resolutions?

Jason

Hi Jason -

In addition to the 3910, I have the XS hooked up to a Hughes HR10-250 Tivo. I have the TV configured to display SD broadcasts in 480p and I can watch HD broadcasts in either 720p or 1080i. For some reason, I always prefer the 1080i resolution. The pictures are just more detailed and more 3D to me. I know others have posted contradictory impressions, but with this TV and these eyes, the 1080i just looks better. The SD stuff in 480p is also nice. A big upgrade from what SD looks like in 480i on this set.

So far I have absolutely no complaints with the TV. It has exceeded my expectations, to be honest. It replaced a 61HS10 CRT RPTV... so it took a little getting used to. About ten minutes!

We watched "The Battle of Algiers" last night, which is a new Criterion DVD release from the 1966 film. The grayscale was really wonderful. Very silvery without a hint of green or blue. And this is right out of the box! We switched a few times between 720p and 1080i, but settled on 1080i.

I have the TV setup to use the Pro setting so that I have control over the advanced parameters. I have not calibrated the set (yet), so this is what I ended up with just from eyeing things (I'm sure the test patterns will reveal some big mistakes here...):

Standard Settings (I borrowed the values from the "standard" mode):

Pic: 50
Brightness: 35
Color: 34
Hue: 0
Sharpness: 35
Color Temp: Neutral
Noise Reduction: Off
Mild Mode: Off

Advanced Properties:

Live Color: High
Clear White: On
Detail Enhancement: High
Black Corrector: Low
Gamma Corrector: Low
White Balance: Default values

Let me know if you have any other specific questions and I'll try to answer them.

Originally posted by JasonColeman
Philco-

I'm very interested in your continuing impressions of the 3910 with your Sony XS TV. I've been eyeing that TV for a bit and I think I'll pick it up, but I want to make sure that the PQ and performance justify the expense. Have you tried other resolutions?

Jason

I hooked up my 3910 to the 55XS and 60XS last night. I have the 60XS on order and wanted to make sure I was doing the right thing. Unfortunately, these were at different locations and I only had component cables.

Bottom line is IMO the 55XS looks pretty good (after some menu adj) but I was hoping for a little more fine detail and an overall sharper picture. I know that this may be a lot to ask for in an LCD. I also felt that the 60XS larger screen was too much of a compromise is PQ compared to the 55XS.

There is no MB in 480P scaled to 788P. Here are some the the DVD's that I reviewed for black levels, MB, deinterlacing, motion artifacts, scaling and most importantly enjoyment:
LOTR TT Chapter 1
SW Ep I Pod race
Finding Nemo - whale scene, deep water scene, etc.
Star Wars New Hope, first 4 chapters
SpiderMan
5th Element Superbit

You definitely want to send it a 480p from the 3910. The Sony's deinterlacer is NO GOOD in comparison.

Bottow line is I am undecided and may just keep my current setup. There are too many compromises in today's choices. DLP = Rainbow Hell although the Optoma Sovereign is awesome otherwise.

What's the difference between the HDMI Y Cb Cr and HDMI RGB output settings? Which one is "better?"

Originally posted by tjk
What's the difference between the HDMI Y Cb Cr and HDMI RGB output settings? Which one is "better?"
I asked the same question to a friend at Projectiondesign (manufactor) he told me to use RGB.

I asked Kris Deering last night and he told me to use Y Cb Cr if my TV set would handle it. There is also a post buried in the 30-some-odd pages of this thread that mentions that Y Cb Cr contains more data than RGB.

Originally posted by PhilcoFord
I asked Kris Deering last night and he told me to use Y Cb Cr if my TV set would handle it. There is also a post buried in the 30-some-odd pages of this thread that mentions that Y Cb Cr contains more data than RGB.

Well I did a search and although the question had been asked by someone a while back, there was no answer given.

However, if Kris says to use Y Cb Cr, that is a definitive answer, although I don't understand what you mean (or he means) when you say "if my TV can handle it." Could you (or Kris if you're around) elaborate?

Guess it wasn't such a dumb question after all.

Originally posted by Bob Pariseau
Yes, you can run HDMI out to DVI in. It is done quite commonly these days. The Denon 3910 reportedly has the HDMI/DVI Blacker than Black bug when doing that, however -- NOTE: firmware fix on the way.

That bug aside, HDMI is, by design, backward compatible with DVI. An HDMI/DVI adapter cable or adapter plug literally just switches wires around to the right pins for the different style plug -- there is no active processing going on in the cable or adapter plug. When the source and destination connect, a handshake is performed that tells the HDMI source the display wants to be thought of as DVI. The source then locks into the DVI standard. [HDCP -- copy protection -- compliance is checked at the same time.] The same happens in reverse if you hook a DVI source to an HDMI display.

Keep in mind that DVI does *NOT* include audio signals. So if you want audio to get there as well you will need to run separate audio from the source to the display.

If both source and destination are discovered to be HDMI during this handshake, then there are ALTERNATE standards available which provide higher bit depth and YCbCr format vs. RGB format for the video. The handshake then goes on to select the best bandwidth/format supported at both ends. This is for future expansion since commonly available displays today that include HDMI input don't yet take advantage of any of this -- they use only the DVI standards albeit via the HDMI plug.

The HDMI transmitter and receiver circuits mandated by the HDMI standard have additional electronic equalization which allows for error free connections over longer cables than with DVI to DVI. Presumably that also makes the HDMI circuits a bit more expensive. There is no intended difference in the cables however. You just have to get the right plug at each end.

As far as I can tell, it is *NOT* safe to assume you'll get any advantage of this if you cable HDMI out to DVI in or vice versa. As usual with cabling limits, the specific characteristics of the chips in your particular source and display, cable construction, and sources of interference will all play a role in how long the cable can be before you start to see problems. There may easily be variations within different manufacturing runs of a given model from any vendor, although all will meet a minimum level of compliance with the standard.

As I understand it, DVI cable lengths up to only roughly 10 feet are guaranteed to be safe, but many people have successfully used longer cables, and cable companies will cheerfully sell you longer cables. That is, there's enough safety factor in the standard and in how manufacturers have implemented it to give you a pretty good shot that longer cables will work.

Companies like Gefen sell DVI repeater boxes which pass through a regenerated signal for folks having problems. Make sure you get a box that's intended for Home Theater use (i.e., it passes through HDCP compliance from the display) as opposed to boxes designed for connecting computers to their displays. The Gefen and Dtronics DVI switcher boxes also regenerate the signal. Thus you can use a maximum length cable on either side of them. That is, they act as a repeater as well as a switcher.

----------------------------------------------------

A number of Forum Sponsors here sell HDMI/DVI cables and adapter plugs. You might want to check the Power Buys forum for any deals currently available.

I believe even Monster Cable offers such cables through places like Best Buy.

Be aware that the markup on cables is enormous. Before shopping, be sure to learn the Home Theater enthusiasts pledge: Open your wallet and repeat after me, "Help Yourself!"
--Bob

This is the post I was talking about. Now that I've re-read it, I wonder if he really meant that YCbCr is associated with higher bit depth, or if that referred to something else?

I just noticing then when I ff 2x that the picture on occasion breaks up slightly and does not provide a fluid 2x motion. I realize this maybe anal but I have never seen a dvd player "drop a frame" so to speak in 2x mode.

Does this occur with anyone else?

Originally posted by mimason
I just noticing then when I ff 2x that the picture on occasion breaks up slightly and does not provide a fluid 2x motion. I realize this maybe anal but I have never seen a dvd player "drop a frame" so to speak in 2x mode.

Does this occur with anyone else?

yep, but i haven't paid to much attention to it, i've been more focused on my audio problem.

should i be worried about the breakup at 2x FF?

cheers
KJ

I just got this player today.

So far, pretty nice. Black level settings were too light compared to my XP50. I don't see a lighter/darker IRE adjustment for component??

One weird quirk: When you FF 2X while playing CDs, it plays sped up "chipmunk" voices! Going to FF 4X is the normal stuttered speed up.

I also upgraded to the new/region-free firmware without a hitch.

Can anyone tell me how well this player works with the Sharp 10000 projector? I've noticed one or two people who had problems with this combination, (the guy who started the macro-blocking thread on the 3910). Anyone out there who likes this combo?

Thanks,

MBramer

I like the combination but find the component output better than the DVI. Although the picture is fantastic, I would still like to understand why this is.

Sam there is black level adjustments. go to the picture adjstments and it is the last one after you see m5.

Originally posted by PhilcoFord
This is the post I was talking about. Now that I've re-read it, I wonder if he really meant that YCbCr is associated with higher bit depth, or if that referred to something else?

Thanks for finding that. Looks like he's saying that the YCbCr is better than the DVI standard of RGB, but most units do not take advantage of it. Fortunately, the 3910 does.

I would still love to hear an explanation of the differences from Kris, if he's out there somewhere.:)

I apologize if either of these have been covered before - hopefully someone will be kind enough to indulge my ignorance. I have two minor issues and while they don't affect performance, I'm wondering if it's normal:

1. When playing a DTS Audio disc, such as the Eagles "Hell Freezes Over" or Alan Parsons "On Air", the left of the display shows CD, not DVD. On the right of the display, the DTS light does not come on, and only the L and R speaker indicators light up. Playback, however, is fine - all 5.1 channels are playing.

DTS movies are fine - the DTS indicator light goes on, the blue DVD light goes on, and all 6 speakers light up on the display.


2. On DVD audio discs, the video signal out of HDMI is lost (I tried Fleetwood Mac's "Rumors"). I don't even get wallpaper when the disc isn't playing (the TV just says searching for signal).

If I switch the TV over to s-video, I get the video feed from the DVD Audio ok. This isn't a terrible issue, as high res video for song lyrics and such isn't a big deal, but I'm wondering why this is the case.

As always, any help is greatly appreciated.

I will try to answer #2 for sure. If you have the latest firmware for some reason it does not show the menus for the dvd audio. Mine did show them via dvi until i did the upgrade what causes this i do not know but i should conntact denon and see why this is. #1 mine does same thing but the reciver shows its dts and it plays multi channel so not sure why but it works. maybe it does not reconize cds as dts.

Originally posted by kevinca1
I will try to answer #2 for sure. If you have the latest firmware for some reason it does not show the menus for the dvd audio. Mine did show them via dvi until i did the upgrade what causes this i do not know but i should conntact denon and see whay this is. #1 mine does same thing but the reciver shows its dts and it plays multi channel so not sure why but it works. maybe it does not reconize cds as dts.

Thanks Kevinca. You know, I need to go back to the serial # post and see what my firmware is - seems like I might have a pretty recent version from what you describe. This is in no way a deal breaker - just an inconvenience. And it seems like if Denon is made aware, the lack of video output for DVD audio over HDMI/DVI would be a pretty simple firmware fix. I will ask Denon as well.

As for the DTS CD, yes, when I go digital into my receiver, the receiver (a Denon 3802) shows DTS. It's the 3910 that doesn't display the DTS indicator, although playback through the 6 ch. output is fine. Is a DTS music disc technically a CD, or DVD?? I like the pretty blue DVD light.:)

Originally posted by kevinca1
Sam there is black level adjustments. go to the picture adjstments and it is the last one after you see m5.

Kevin, thank you for answering my question. I will try it tonight. What would be the proper setting for 480p component video? 7.5IRE or 0? I am going to have my set re-calibrated in the upcoming weeks.

I also tried a DTS CD yesterday and noticed it didn't light up the DTS logo or speaker indicators. Played perfectly though! ;) Although I am not using DVI/HDMI yet, the "no DVD-A menu" problem does concern me a bit.

My only gripe is with the "Source Direct" setting. I played with it for hours but can't seem to get it quite right. I have 5 large speakers + sub, and want to use the analog-outputs for SACD/DVD-A/DD/DTS. I want no bass management or level controls, only time-delay. When I set Source Direct to ON, I can tweak to get good bass on SACD, but it's typically too much for DVD-A & DTS. When Source Direct is OFF, I have to really lower the LFE channel level on my pre-amp for DVD-A and DTS sources, but SACD sounds fine.

I obviously don't want to boost the bass independantly for every source, something about the Source Direct feature does not seem right to me.

Originally posted by Sam Scamardo
Kevin, thank you for answering my question. I will try it tonight. What would be the proper setting for 480p component video? 7.5IRE or 0? I am going to have my set re-calibrated in the upcoming weeks.

According to Kris Deering and many other posts, 0 is the correct setting.

I also tried a DTS CD yesterday and noticed it didn't light up the DTS logo or speaker indicators. Played perfectly though! ;) Although I am not using DVI/HDMI yet, the "no DVD-A menu" problem does concern me a bit.

I'm concerned, but not too concerned - s-video works fine for DVD Audio menus. I don't really NEED high-def quality DVD Audio menus - it's more of a convenience of having to change inputs on the TV.

My only gripe is with the "Source Direct" setting. I played with it for hours but can't seem to get it quite right. I have 5 large speakers + sub, and want to use the analog-outputs for SACD/DVD-A/DD/DTS. I want no bass management or level controls, only time-delay. When I set Source Direct to ON, I can tweak to get good bass on SACD, but it's typically too much for DVD-A & DTS. When Source Direct is OFF, I have to really lower the LFE channel level on my pre-amp for DVD-A and DTS sources, but SACD sounds fine.

I obviously don't want to boost the bass independantly for every source, something about the Source Direct feature does not seem right to me.

Source direct initially confused the heck out of me also. I believe (others here are way more qualified) that DTS tracks boost subwoofer output, which receivers compensate for. However, using analog output, you need to adjust yourself. I know that's probably not much help, but like I said there are others here more qualified to answer this one.

I am using the componet on mine with the ire at 0. To me and i think a few others the componet looks just as good if not better then dvi so the dvd audio thing is not a big deal but why it does it denon should know about it and may need to fix it for people who want it. i have the source derect on. to me it sounds better,

After selling my Denon A11 (5900 is US) because the awful macroblocking issue, i take 3 dvd players to home for testing:

Pioneer 868
Arcam DV79
Denon 3910

My setup: DLP projector Sim2 HT300 Xtra-H ; Amplifier Denon AVC10SE ; Speakers Sonus Faber Concerto and Gravis sub

DVD Movies in test: Star Wars Episode II ; Gangs of New York ; Lord Rings Two Towers

The connection was allways through HDMI.

First to connect...Pioneer 868

Good picture quality without macroblocking (thank god!), good resolution, but still behind the Denon A11 (5900)

Arcam DV79...Fantastic picture quality, more film like than the Pioneer, excellent colors and very good resolution...and no macroblocking...excellent!

Denon 3910...Excellent Picture, identical to the Arcam...maybe a bit more sharper and resolution...but...Oh No !!!... MACROBLOCKING !!...in all the 3 movies i tested the Macroblocking issue is present!!... AAAARRRRGGGGHHH !!! What a disappointment !!

I will take the Arcam DV79....but short on features...no SACD, only DVD Audio, but excellent in ordinary Redbook CDs (better than the A11!!), and no upscalling to 720p (no problem, because the desinterlacer in the Sim2 is one of the best in the market)

I am very happy with my choice, and now i am going to change the amplifier to the new Arcam AVR300 !!!

Originally posted by NABCS
Denon 3910...Excellent Picture, identical to the Arcam...maybe a bit more sharper and resolution...but...Oh No !!!... MACROBLOCKING !!...in all the 3 movies i tested the Macroblocking issue is present!!... AAAARRRRGGGGHHH !!! What a disappointment !!



Can you be very specific about where you saw this happen in Episode II? Like which hour, minute, second and chapter/scene?

tjk, thanks for your insight. I'm going to spend more time with Source Direct tonight.

I noticed another oddity since making my 3910 region free.

When playing the Superbit "The Fifth Element" R1, you selected the red icon Play Movie from the main menu and are taken to a PG-13 rating screen. What follows is the oddity. Instead of seeing the standard FBI Warning screen, the now-region-free player goes into a warning screen about distribution of the movie only in Hong Kong, et al, and a screen followed by asian characters. Then, off to the movie! I suppose there are certain title scenes on the disc that play dependant on your region setting.

Anyone else experienced something similar?

Originally posted by Sam Scamardo
I suppose there are certain title scenes on the disc that play dependant on your region setting.

Anyone else experienced something similar?

That would seem right, the FBI has no copyright enforcement beyond US borders so what you are seeing is the warning for whatever region the disc is indigenous to.

Originally posted by keenan
That would seem right, the FBI has no copyright enforcement beyond US borders so what you are seeing is the warning for whatever region the disc is indigenous to.

That makes sense, but the strange thing is that it is a Region1 disc made for and sold in the US. Weird.

I've waded through about 5 pages of this thread so far, and now simply decided to ask what I want to know. Sorry if this has already been answered somewhere else in this thread.

I am thinking of buying this player for use only as a multichannel and stereo audio player. I don't have a DVI input HDTV so I will continue to use my Zenith 318 for upconverted DVD playback.

Is this unit's analog audio output so good as to make it a good value for use on SACD, DVD-A and CD/redbook playback?

Finally, does the 2910 use the same audio section and components?

Thanks for your help!

Yes the audio is great on this unit and no the 2910 is not even close. The componet out put is also great to me its juat as good as the dvi.

Hi merc,

I have not listened to the 3910, but I would assume that it sounds similar to the 5900 in stock form. Here is a thread on Audio Circle which might help: Denon DVD-3910 First Impressions. (http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?p=125346#125346) I definitely trust Dan's ears. ;)

Denon 3910...evidence of Macroblocking:

Star Wars episode II: Chapter 6 ; 10:55...in the wall in the left of the door

More evident...Gangs in New York: Chapter 1...first scene when the little boy comes from the dark...the dark background is full of macroblocking...horrible!!!

I will keep my Arcam DV79...picture quality as good, and no macroblocking...and better audio quality from redbook CDs

I am getting a cable STB box installed tomorrow and in preparation I went to check the component picture of the 3910 to my display and for some (probably stupid) reason I could not get a picture. I currently have the 3910 connected to the TV's sole DVI input and at least temporarily will have to choose whether to use it for the 3910 or the STB. When I switch inputs on my TV to show the component picture, while the DVI is still connected, I get no signal. When I first got the 3910 I think I recall being able to switch back and forth, so either something is not working properly or it's a setup issue. Or possibly I need to disconnect the DVI cable (which I have not yet done) before I'm able to view component.

If anyone has any suggestions I would appreciate it.

JB you need to turn dvi off, hit select at top of remote tell it says dvi/hdmi off. thern switch to where you have the componet hooked up,

Greetings,

JB, Kevin is right. If DVI is enabled, component is disabled/off.


Regards,

Originally posted by Sam Scamardo
That makes sense, but the strange thing is that it is a Region1 disc made for and sold in the US. Weird.

Weird indeed, I have no answer for that..:confused:

Kevin and Ralph - thanks - what you say sounds familiar. Last night I had gone into setup and couldn't find anything. My DVI is on Input 7 and this component is on #6. When I get home tonight I'll follow your advice and take a critical look at the component picture.

Originally posted by JBaumgart
Kevin and Ralph - thanks - what you say sounds familiar. Last night I had gone into setup and couldn't find anything. My DVI is on Input 7 and this component is on #6. When I get home tonight I'll follow your advice and take a critical look at the component picture.

You don't even need to go into setup. Just hit the HDMI select button on the upper left of the remote. It toggles through all of the HDMI/DVI options, including HDMI/DVI OFF.

Edit: Never mind. Kevin recommended that already.

Originally posted by NABCS
Denon 3910...evidence of Macroblocking:

Star Wars episode II: Chapter 6 ; 10:55...in the wall in the left of the door



The only thing I see to the left of the door on the wall is the shadow of ObeWan's cloak as he swings it off onto the couch, and also his shadow. I don't see any macroblocking at all.

Viewing in 1080i via DVI and also Component same results.

Steve,
You must have your display calibrated properly. It is VERY difficult to see the macroblocking unless you have your gamma curve incorrect or your sharpness setting is up WAY too high. Pause that scene and play with your brightness, contrast and gamma and I bet you will see the macroblocking. I have no macroblocking on my display with the 3910 unless I play with those 3 settings, then I can make it appear. It is just how Kris has explained...calibration and particular displays will highlight the problem more than anything. BTW...I had a 5900 and the 3910 is night and day with the macroblocking...there was nothing you could do on the 5900 to get rid of it!

Dave

jfinneru and tjk
Kris Deering is always right.
Y Cb Cr I think is digital component video, not like Y-Pr-Pb which is analog component video. RGB can also be analog or digital. I don't think analog RGB would be as good as digital Y-Cr-Cb, but Digital RGB seems to me like it would be better than digital Y-Cr-Cb. Might be wrong...

Originally posted by kmmd
I have not listened to the 3910, but I would assume that it sounds similar to the 5900 in stock form. Here is a thread on Audio Circle which might help: Denon DVD-3910 First Impressions. (http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?p=125346#125346) I definitely trust Dan's ears. ;)

Great news. It's nice to hear someone with his expertise give a thumbs up.

Originally posted by merc
I am thinking of buying this player for use only as a multichannel and stereo audio player. I don't have a DVI input HDTV so I will continue to use my Zenith 318 for upconverted DVD playback.

Is this unit's analog audio output so good as to make it a good value for use on SACD, DVD-A and CD/redbook playback?

Finally, does the 2910 use the same audio section and components?

Thanks for your help!

I have the 318 and 3910 and a 2200 FWIW. I can tell you that I really don't use the 318 anymore. The 3910's is just so much more enjoyable via component. The biggest thing is that the colors are accurate, it's more 3d like and involving. It won't have the ghosting(MB) nearly as bad as the 318 if at all. Depending on your scaler the 318 could produce a slightly sharper image on some discs but I feel the trade-off is worth it.

When I get my Iscan HD back I will be using the 3910 only for it's MPEG decoder and transport and of course audio which is leaps and bounds better than my 2200.

There sb a huge difference between the 2910 and 3910. Read Dan Modwright's first impressions. I could not agree more.

Is there any other dvd player worthy of an A/B COMPARISON TO THE 3910 for either sound or picture , in the same price range, with simiar feature set (ie up convert)

Originally posted by placidman
Greetings,

JB, Kevin is right. If DVI is enabled, component is disabled/off.


Regards,

Well of course you guys were correct - I had forgotten this button which I hadn't used since buying the unit.

I switched over to component and things look pretty good on my Sony RP lcd. Maybe a tad less sharp than with DVI but I have not calibrated yet. I also discovered that with two DVD-A's I can now read and play with the menus - these were not visable previously when viewing with DVI. Strangely, several other DVD-A's menus, including all 6 that I have from AIX Records - showed up when I was connected via DVI. Don't know why this is, other than the fact that I did do the firmware update and apparently this removes the ability to view DVD-A menus.

Is Denon working on an additional firmware update to address this (in case I go the DVI route and use component for the Motorola STB).

Originally posted by Jake Sm
Is there any other dvd player worthy of an A/B COMPARISON TO THE 3910 for either sound or picture , in the same price range, with simiar feature set (ie up convert)

You're asking to get flamed by not reading the threads but I'm gonna throw you a bone. Pioneer Elite 59avi, Yammy 2500(upcoming), Denon 2900, Onkyo SP1000(pricier), Denon 5900, possbily some Arcam too.

With regarde to the i-link problems, there is an isssue with the i-link output and DD
DTS and SACD playback fine without any problems but DD still dropsout on some discs. Been in contact with Denon UK but havent got any where realy, there in denial of any issue. which is the response you always get from Denon UK, OH and it is obviously the Pioneer amp thats at fault.(so i say so that was the problem with the A11 i-link as well was it?? SILENCE)

Will keep on though, and so should anyone else who has an issue with the i-link, you must talk to denon else they wont know that the issue is widespread.

THX

Originally posted by JasonColeman
So where's the resident expert on this when we need him, Mr.(Europe)? I think we've all read the manual, yet nobody knows for sure what the answer is. I'll be spending some serious time with my 3910/3805 combo this weekend (as I don't have work commitments :D), so I'll chime in with what I can discern.

It just goes to show that we should ask questions (even if they're seemingly unnecessary)...it also proves that Denon manuals really do suck (like we needed the proof :D)!

Jason
Been away a while - have been out trying new PJ´s :)

And since I answerede the multi-ch question without owning the 3910 (just reading the manual) -
now when I HAVE tried it I will have to eat my hat :)

This is the way I had to connect it to get the best out of the sound - see attatched picture.

1. The black lines symbolize how it should be connected for multichannel with setup item "AUDIO-CHANNEL" set to "MULTI_CHANNEL". In this way the processing is done in the DVD-3910 (delay, speaker size a.s.o.) and the AVR-3805 does not manage the sound further (qith built in EQ and so on). Allthough I am still not sure wheter the L + R out are affected by the processing from the multi channel setup (speaker size, delay and so on)?

With this setup CD, 2-ch SACD, 5.1 channel SACD can be output but only to EXT.IN

2. The red lines symbolizes the alternative setup if you want the 3805 to handle the EQ processing in 2-channel mode and use the best outputs.
In this case you would have to use the inferior FL / FR outputs for multichannel but that would not be my choice since the SACD sound is the superior quality sound which need the best of outputs. Why did they just not make MULT + FL/FR outputs High grade - I mean the multi outputs are AT LEAST (if not more) important to be high grade :(


Regards
Boogieman

I tried the dlink to my AVR5800 [with update].

I am not sure if the 5800/update sets the dlink as 2nd edition or not.

It plays the sound, but it does not lock and about every two seconds the sound drops for an instant and then is heard (sort of pulses...)

Anyone know if the 5800 with the update is dlink 2nd edition ?

Thanks

Originally posted by NABCS
Denon 3910...evidence of Macroblocking:

Star Wars episode II: Chapter 6 ; 10:55...in the wall in the left of the door



I scrutinized this scene several times. The only thing I saw was a *slight* bit of what I would describe as "MPEG noise". I have to get very close to the screen to see it.

I would have never spotted it unless it was pointed out to me. If this is the worse this is going to be, it won't bother me a bit. FWIW, my display is an ISF calibrated 55" CRT RPTV.

Originally posted by Steve Richards

Anyone know if the 5800 with the update is dlink 2nd edition ?



Not unless it was sent back again to get the Denon Link SE (was free to owners of both the A1SE and DVD A1). I've got an A1SE that was upgraded but it only has Denon Link First Edition. The Second Edition was offered as another upgrade but I never bothered with it.

Since MB is very display dependent, menu setting dependent, and output dependent (reportedly some MB with 1080i output, but not with 720p or 480p output), plus many may be calling artifacts MB that are not MB, it is not surprising to see differences in opinion as to whether specific movie scenes have MB or not.

Originally posted by Jase H
Not unless it was sent back again to get the Denon Link SE (was free to owners of both the A1SE and DVD A1). I've got an A1SE that was upgraded but it only has Denon Link First Edition. The Second Edition was offered as another upgrade but I never bothered with it.

Bummer, I must have either missed it, or ignored it too.

Originally posted by [Europe]Boogiem

This is the way I had to connect it to get the best out of the sound - see attatched picture.

1. The black lines symbolize how it should be connected for multichannel with setup item "AUDIO-CHANNEL" set to "MULTI_CHANNEL". In this way the processing is done in the DVD-3910 (delay, speaker size a.s.o.) and the AVR-3805 does not manage the sound further (qith built in EQ and so on). Allthough I am still not sure wheter the L + R out are affected by the processing from the multi channel setup (speaker size, delay and so on)?

With this setup CD, 2-ch SACD, 5.1 channel SACD can be output but only to EXT.IN

2. The red lines symbolizes the alternative setup if you want the 3805 to handle the EQ processing in 2-channel mode and use the best outputs.
In this case you would have to use the inferior FL / FR outputs for multichannel but that would not be my choice since the SACD sound is the superior quality sound which need the best of outputs. Why did they just not make MULT + FL/FR outputs High grade - I mean the multi outputs are AT LEAST (if not more) important to be high grade :(

Regards
Boogieman

This is confusing and somewhat contradictory and I believe some of your assumptions are incorrect.

A couple of questions,

1) Are you using the DLink connection?

2) Your diagram shows nothing hooked up to the Multi-Ch FL and FR outputs, when playing back 5.1 SACD do you get any output from your L and R speakers?

3) When you say the Multi-Ch FL and FR are inferior outputs what do you mean?

4) Have you tried this configuration with a non-hybrid and/or a 2CH SACD disc?

I am guessing that you are using the CD input on the 3805 and it's applying DDPLIIx to the signal and giving multi-ch output, which is not the same discrete 5.1 signal that is coming from the multi-ch outputs on the 3910 when using a SACD disc.

Thanks,
Jim

Are most folks still happy with their 3910 ??

For me, it was the player that finally retired my Panasonic RP-91.

-- Cain

Originally posted by Cain
Are most folks still happy with their 3910 ??

For me, it was the player that finally retired my Panasonic RP-91.

-- Cain

I've only had it for 4 days, but so far it has met or exceeded my expectations. I also owned an RP91 for many years. The only feature lacking is the scaling, but the other step-up features are worth it. I only use 480p component, but it is just as good picture-wise as the RP91 and does just as good deinterlacing as my XP50 which it replaced. The sound on SACD and DVD-A is very good. I actually am letting the 3910 do decoding for my DD/DTS movies.

Now if someone could point me to a good source for non-Region1 NTSC DVDs, I'll enjoy this region free firmware ;)

One question: is anyone else's tray door kinda loose up and down when closed? The disc tray seems to have the least impressive build quality of any parts of the player. I just expect something more sturdy on at $1200 unit.

Originally posted by keenan
This is confusing and somewhat contradictory and I believe some of your assumptions are incorrect.

A couple of questions,

1) Are you using the DLink connection?

2) Your diagram shows nothing hooked up to the Multi-Ch FL and FR outputs, when playing back 5.1 SACD do you get any output from your L and R speakers?

3) When you say the Multi-Ch FL and FR are inferior outputs what do you mean?

4) Have you tried this configuration with a non-hybrid and/or a 2CH SACD disc?

I am guessing that you are using the CD input on the 3805 and it's applying DDPLIIx to the signal and giving multi-ch output, which is not the same discrete 5.1 signal that is coming from the multi-ch outputs on the 3910 when using a SACD disc.

Thanks,
Jim

1. DLink does not (YET anyway) work on SACD and this matter adresses the ultimate sound for SACD between AVR3805 and DVD3910 - also when using CD the superior outputs are the STD L/R (none multichannel).
The reason for this is that the D/A converters in the 3910 is superior to the ones in 3805. Even if you are using an analogue cable (which might be more sensitive to external nois) there are advantages. If you run DenonLink the path is digital. Even though in the digital domain you have better error correction than in the analogue - when you get an error a full bit falls away (AT LEAST) which normally gives a more "hearable" fault in the sound. Even if it is jitter free the D/A converter plays such a big role (if you have good speakers) in giving the most refined and opens sound that the 3910 DA´s should be used. If using DLink or any other digital connection to the 3805 they ARE NOT used hence givning you an inferior sound with the right equpiment.

2. Yes the same output is put throught the "normal" L/R as it is from the FL/FR (multi).

3. Frist as you can see by the eye the L/R outputs are of a higher rade (bigger and solid). Second the internal build for theese outputs have better output capacitors that are opted to give a better sound.

4. Yes i ran the Sony refernce DSD disc along with Norah Jones multi + 2 channel disc and came to the same conclusion for bith discs. In my ears (especially in two channel mode) the mids and treble gives more detail to the sound. Also it sounds a bit warmer (whcih is good for my a bit cold JBL Ti6K fronts).

Last question without numbeer.
No I am not using CD inputs. If you look at the picture I am using the multichannel out from the 3910 except the FL/FR and instead using the std L/R stereo outputs from the 3910. Theese analogue domain signals are input to the External inputs to the 3805 (Ext.In) and theese singals can NOT be processed with e.g. DPL2x music or ikewise.

Theese signals are sent analogue and directed to the amps via the volume control. Hence no processing is made after the 3910 except fro volume processing. The only "mod" you can apply on the 3805 is using "Pure direct" which does not convert the sound - it only turns of video and display and all processing not needed for superior sound on the 3805.


Regards
Boogieman

Originally posted by Cain
Are most folks still happy with their 3910 ??

For me, it was the player that finally retired my Panasonic RP-91.

-- Cain
Nope I was not happy since I could not synch DVI with my InFocus SP110 :(
So I retruned the player. An error this big must be corrected before i give it another glimpse.

Anyway next year will give big excitment with the HD players and the sequel to th A11 - hearsay iy will be given the brand new sensational decoder (which i dont rember the name of but its spoken about in the HDTV forum). Allthough the price tag si too heft for me I think A LOT will happen 2005. HDTV will start out here in Europe i believe and also the PJ´s will ste up to HD3 DLP chip at a lot of manufacturers - this dropping the HD2+ PJs.

Boogie

Originally posted by [Europe]Boogiem

2. Yes the same output is put throught the "normal" L/R as it is from the FL/FR (multi).

3. Frist as you can see by the eye the L/R outputs are of a higher rade (bigger and solid). Second the internal build for theese outputs have better output capacitors that are opted to give a better sound.



Hi,

The output of the normal L/R channels is not identical to the Multi L/R channels in all cases. While decoding 5.1 Dolby Digital (and I believe dts too), the seperate L/R jacks output a downmixed signal from 5.1. Thus, if there was a situtuation where one was listening to a movie soundtrack from the EXT IN inputs, the sound would be incorrect.

Originally posted by [Europe]Boogiem
1. DLink does not (YET anyway) work on SACD and this matter adresses the ultimate sound for SACD between AVR3805 and DVD3910 - also when using CD the superior outputs are the STD L/R (none multichannel).
The reason for this is that the D/A converters in the 3910 is superior to the ones in 3805. Even if you are using an analogue cable (which might be more sensitive to external nois) there are advantages. If you run DenonLink the path is digital. Even though in the digital domain you have better error correction than in the analogue - when you get an error a full bit falls away (AT LEAST) which normally gives a more "hearable" fault in the sound. Even if it is jitter free the D/A converter plays such a big role (if you have good speakers) in giving the most refined and opens sound that the 3910 DA´s should be used. If using DLink or any other digital connection to the 3805 they ARE NOT used hence givning you an inferior sound with the right equpiment.



I understand about the DLink and SACD, what I am trying to understand is how you are getting any signal for the LF and RF speakers when you playback a 5.1 SACD disc. I am also aware that the DACs in the 3910 are superior to the 3805 but I'm not sure you're going to have any "full bits fall away".



2. Yes the same output is put throught the "normal" L/R as it is from the FL/FR (multi).

3. Frist as you can see by the eye the L/R outputs are of a higher rade (bigger and solid). Second the internal build for theese outputs have better output capacitors that are opted to give a better sound.


I don't see how both these statements can be true, are you saying both output the same signal but one is of better quality?



4. Yes i ran the Sony refernce DSD disc along with Norah Jones multi + 2 channel disc and came to the same conclusion for bith discs. In my ears (especially in two channel mode) the mids and treble gives more detail to the sound. Also it sounds a bit warmer (whcih is good for my a bit cold JBL Ti6K fronts).


The Norah Jones disc, Come Away With Me, is not a good disc to use for comparison purposes, the 2ch SACD version on this disc is created from a 16 bit/44.1kHz Redbook master ran through the DSD converter.


Last question without numbeer.
No I am not using CD inputs.

So you are not using the CD input to play back standard Redbook CD material, you are using the Ext-In, which means you cannot apply any processing to the signal for playback?

Jim

Originally posted by Sam Scamardo
I actually am letting the 3910 do decoding for my DD/DTS movies.



I have been evaluating this myself. I actually think that it is doing a better job processing than my 3803 for DD. I need to relook at both setups to see if I have different speaker distance settings etc. before I am sure though.

Are we happy? Yes. Even the SP1000 has had some sync problems. That's what firmware is for. There is no perfect player for every setup. We just have a lot of critical members here.

Isn't the analog Stereo L and R outputs just splits from the analog multichannel FL and FR outputs? I want to use the multichannel outputs for all music including redbook playback and use the stereo L/R output for my headphone setup.

Also, is there an audio only mode which turns off the video circuitry and possibly even the front panel LCD?

Thanks...

Originally posted by merc
Isn't the analog Stereo L and R outputs just splits from the analog multichannel FL and FR outputs? I want to use the multichannel outputs for all music including redbook playback and use the stereo L/R output for my headphone setup.

No, the seperate L/R jacks contain downmixed signals of Dolby Digital material. However, you can still do the scenario you describe with no ill effects.

Also, is there an audio only mode which turns off the video circuitry and possibly even the front panel LCD?

Thanks...

Yes, there are two different "memories" you can program to determine how much circuitry you want to turn off including front panel.

No, the seperate L/R jacks contain downmixed signals of Dolby Digital material. However, you can still do the scenario you describe with no ill effects.I hadn't planned on using this player for playback of any DD material...only DVD-A, SACD and CD/redbook audio. If I ever do use it for DVD video playback, I will be connecting it to my pre/pro via a coax digital cable.

During playback of stereo and multichannel music discs, does the L/R and FL and FR output the same analog signals... like many other Universal players?

Yes, there are two different "memories" you can program to determine how much circuitry you want to turn off including front panel. Doesn't the unit just have a front panel(and remote?) button which turns off the audio circuitry... and another for dimming and turning off the LCD?

Nevermind my questions on the use of "memories" for turning off the video and front panel LCD during audio playback... I just read the manual and now understand what you meant.

Also, it appears that you can select stereo on the remote or the front panel for multichannel and CD music discs, and get the same output from both the L/R and the FL/FR outputs. When you select multichannel output the FL/FR is different from the L/R downmixed output. Thanks for your help Sam.

hello guys !

i am very new in here as amember,,
i just purchased the new 3910 dvd,,own before the a-11.
2 straight questions if any one can help !

1...if my serial no. 40*****231 can you guys tell me if it need the new firmware??

2... when playing dvd a and sacd via i link to my az-9,it seems that it wont accept the es-ex decoding (matrix) as it can when i play it analog....

p.s. do all the dvd 3910 manufactured in china as mine??

thx for any help !!

1. What is the date of manufacture? We'd need to know the last 4 digits to tell you more. I'd say go ahead and update to region-free anyways.

2. It is unlikely your Z9 can do 6.1 processing on a native 5.1 SACD/DVDA signal. That's just the nature of the beast.

3. Yes, all 3910s are made in China.

I just received my 3910 this week. I hooked it up using the HDMI connection. The first 3 movies that we played were great. Upon trying to play the 4th, the screen keeps flashing and on and off (even in the set up mode). I have checked all connections and they are OK. I hooked up the component video cables and they play OK. Has anyone had this type of problem with the HDMI connection? Thanks.

thanks sam for responding !

where can i find the manufacture date?on the box?and what do you mean last 4 digit? is it the serial no? if yes then it is-0231...
about hearing sacd and dvd a from all speakers that is 3 front 2 dipol on side walls an 2 on each corner from behind walls....
when i put the i link on,i cant here the efect from the corners speakers behind when i use the ex encoding,,but when i put the i link off,i can hear all the speakers when the ex-encoding on...
i am just ciorious to know if that suppose to be like that?
one more question if i may?the two seperte L R on the 3910 is conecting to my integrated krell for only analog stereo for cd,,,when the i link is on ,i cant get anything thru the krell,,,is it logic that the 3910 doesnt even transfer analog to the 2 cd conectors when i link is on??
once again thx for taking the time to answer me....

shlomore

sholmore,

I don't know if I know all the answers to your questions, but I'll give it a shot. The manufacture date should be right above the serial number on the unit itself. What region is your player?

I don't have a receiver like yours to help you out with iLink. There may be some receiver settings you can adjust to get the desired sound.

Yes, if you use iLink, all analog outputs are turned off. Bummer.

Now, can you answer a question for me? Does your tray door move slightly up and down when closed? This is not a big deal, but my last SACD player (Sony XA9000ES & XA777ES) had rock solid trays when open or closed.

Originally posted by merc
Nevermind my questions on the use of "memories" for turning off the video and front panel LCD during audio playback... I just read the manual and now understand what you meant.

Also, it appears that you can select stereo on the remote or the front panel for multichannel and CD music discs, and get the same output from both the L/R and the FL/FR outputs. When you select multichannel output the FL/FR is different from the L/R downmixed output. Thanks for your help Sam.

Merc,
I had actually emailed Denon for some clarification on these 2-ch outputs, but never heard back from them. I have a 2-ch audio sustem, and have set 2-ch stereo in the SACD setup, and connected analog L/R outputs to my preamp. I assume that is the way to go (rather than FL/FR), for both redbook and 2-ch SACD??

DVI vs Component

I had a Motorola 6200 installed on Saturday and used my TV's sole DVI input to connect it, so I switched to component for the 3910. Has anyone experimented with settings to maximize PQ using component? It does seem a little softer than when I had it connected via DVI.

I have a KDF70XBR950 (lcd rear projection) with a 788P native resolution.

Now, can you answer a question for me? Does your tray door move slightly up and down when closed? This is not a big deal, but my last SACD player (Sony XA9000ES & XA777ES) had rock solid trays when open or closed.

hi sam !

to answer your question,,no the tray door move in and out slightly and smothly,compare to the a-11 i hade before it react even better....
on the 3910 the steps of swallow the disck and load the information seems to be faster then the a-11..
i hope that i did answer what you ment to ask...

Merc,
I had actually emailed Denon for some clarification on these 2-ch outputs, but never heard back from them. I have a 2-ch audio sustem, and have set 2-ch stereo in the SACD setup, and connected analog L/R outputs to my preamp. I assume that is the way to go (rather than FL/FR), for both redbook and 2-ch SACD??

hi merc,,

i also conected my 3910 dvd to itegrated stereo by analog cabales and i used the two cd sepereted L R conectors on the back of the dvd,also conected the i link cable to my az-9..is there a way to set up either the dvd or the az-9,so i can hear pure analog when play my inegretd amp stereo,and still hear via i link if i use the az-9 amp...so far in order to hear from my integrated amp i hade to set the i link to off first....when set the dvd 3910 to i link ON,,it means that also the L R cd analog on the back of the dvd is off to play anything?
in that case its better to conect a complitly other cd player to the integrated amp,it order to use also the analog expirience?
i hoped that i could do all on this one universal dvd player,,plz corect me if i am wrong..

shlomore

Originally posted by shlomore
Merc,

hi merc,,

i also conected my 3910 dvd to itegrated stereo by analog cabales and i used the two cd sepereted L R conectors on the back of the dvd,also conected the i link cable to my az-9..is there a way to set up either the dvd or the az-9,so i can hear pure analog when play my inegretd amp stereo,and still hear via i link if i use the az-9 amp...so far in order to hear from my integrated amp i hade to set the i link to off first....when set the dvd 3910 to i link ON,,it means that also the L R cd analog on the back of the dvd is off to play anything?
in that case its better to conect a complitly other cd player to the integrated amp,it order to use also the analog expirience?
i hoped that i could do all on this one universal dvd player,,plz corect me if i am wrong..

shlomore

if you have iLink on the 3910 turned ON, all other outputs are turned OFF. you either have to use the iLink or then you have to use the analog connections with coax of optical if you want digital audio, you cannot use both at the same time.
Though i recommend that you just use the iLink connection for everything, as SACD will pass over it, stereo or multichannel, and the audio signal should be just as good, even if you cannot use the Pure Direct mode.
I too have the 3910 and RX-Z9 combo, and it works fine.
If though, you would still prefer to have the analog connections for stereo SACD or standard CD's you must turn off the iLink/IEEE1394 or switch between the two, which will become very annoying if you do.

as i said, if you have iLink, just leave that, you should not need any analog connections.

cheers
KJ

Originally posted by Sam Scamardo
Hi,

The output of the normal L/R channels is not identical to the Multi L/R channels in all cases. While decoding 5.1 Dolby Digital (and I believe dts too), the seperate L/R jacks output a downmixed signal from 5.1. Thus, if there was a situtuation where one was listening to a movie soundtrack from the EXT IN inputs, the sound would be incorrect.

DD and DTS is not what we are adressing here (read beginning of the post - CD and SACD SOUND).

But on the other hand that does not matter since when running DD or DTS you are using the DLink or the COAX or Toslink ;)
The DD, DTS decoder in the AVR3805 is better than the one in the 3910 and also you can only get 5.1 via analog outs and at list I want 7.1 ;)

Regards
Boogie

Originally posted by keenan
I understand about the DLink and SACD, what I am trying to understand is how you are getting any signal for the LF and RF speakers when you playback a 5.1 SACD disc. I am also aware that the DACs in the 3910 are superior to the 3805 but I'm not sure you're going to have any "full bits fall away".




I don't see how both these statements can be true, are you saying both output the same signal but one is of better quality?
Jim

The L/R output stage is better than the FL/FR - this means that when they recieve the same signal from the internal DA the signal degradation at the Output stage is lower throught the L/R = Better analog output from theese signals. So if you want to be picky the signals is not EXACT the same but I hope you get the point ;)


The Norah Jones disc, Come Away With Me, is not a good disc to use for comparison purposes, the 2ch SACD version on this disc is created from a 16 bit/44.1kHz Redbook master ran through the DSD converter.

But still it is better :) Or you dont want the bad discs to sound better? I prefer trying one bad source and on good (the sony disc) - what would you recommend?


So you are not using the CD input to play back standard Redbook CD material, you are using the Ext-In, which means you cannot apply any processing to the signal for playback?

As long as you dont feed the EXT.IN with 192/24 signal the processing can still be made on the EXT.IN. But as soon as you upconvert to 192/24 you are right (upsampled CD or SACD 2-channel = 192/24) - NO processing can be made but then you got the purest signal and if you want processing it can be made in the 3910 (but you dont get the equalizer of the 3910). You have to choose what is most important for you and how you want to process the signal. For me SACD has a better base quality so i dont want to process it more than necessary to keep a "pure direct" signal. Also I want to use the best possible throughputs which is analog out L/R

thanks kj for your help,,,if you have iLink on the 3910 turned ON, all other outputs are turned OFF. you either have to use the iLink or then you have to use the analog connections with coax of optical if you want digital audio, you cannot use both at the same time.
Though i recommend that you just use the iLink connection for everything, as SACD will pass over it, stereo or multichannel, and the audio signal should be just as good, even if you cannot use the Pure Direct mode.
I too have the 3910 and RX-Z9 combo, and it works fine.
If though, you would still prefer to have the analog connections for stereo SACD or standard CD's you must turn off the iLink/IEEE1394 or switch between the two, which will become very annoying if you do.

as i said, if you have iLink, just leave that, you should not need any analog connections.

cheers
KJ

as someone who have the az-9 and 3910 combo i would like to ask you one more thing if i may?
when playing sacd via i link with multi chanel,i cant use the es-ex button on the yamaha remote to get the back speakers work as matrix...
but when i swich off the i link on the dvd,i can add with sacd the back speakers with the es-ex button,,can you clearify that plz??

thanks,,
shlomore

Originally posted by jeadams
I just received my 3910 this week. I hooked it up using the HDMI connection. The first 3 movies that we played were great. Upon trying to play the 4th, the screen keeps flashing and on and off (even in the set up mode). I have checked all connections and they are OK. I hooked up the component video cables and they play OK. Has anyone had this type of problem with the HDMI connection? Thanks.

I had a similar problem using DVI connector. My dealer is getting me a new unit. It was a sync issue when using HDMI/DVI connection. The unit kept flipping back and forth from Film (F) and Video (V). If you are having the same issue as me, you will be able to see it on the front panel of the 3910. I hope the new unit does not have the same issue.

Originally posted by [Europe]Boogiem
The L/R output stage is better than the FL/FR - this means that when they recieve the same signal from the internal DA the signal degradation at the Output stage is lower throught the L/R = Better analog output from theese signals. So if you want to be picky the signals is not EXACT the same but I hope you get the point ;)

I understand what you are saying, but my question is what information do you have that indicates that one is better than the other? Something objective and not subjective like just using your ears..

But still it is better :) Or you dont want the bad discs to sound better? I prefer trying one bad source and on good (the sony disc) - what would you recommend?

This would be tough because the SACD 2CH version and the MCh version of the same recording is going to have obvious differences by nature, I'll have to think about what would make a good comparator..

As long as you dont feed the EXT.IN with 192/24 signal the processing can still be made on the EXT.IN.
This is incorrect. There is absolutely no processing done on signals fed into the Ext-In jacks on the 3805. The signals are fed directly to the amplifier section. The only thing the 3805 does with these signals is amplify them. The only manipulation you can do on these signals other than amplify them is to alter the individual levels of each channel.

Jim :)

Originally posted by [Europe]Boogiem
The DD, DTS decoder in the AVR3805 is better than the one in the 3910 and also you can only get 5.1 via analog outs and at list I want 7.1 ;)

Regards
Boogie


Agree about 7.1 but can you substantiate your claim about the decoder being superior in the 3805.

Based on only one comparison with Monster Inc. DD I could definietly hear more detail from the 3910 decoding compared to the 3803. Is the 3805 that much better than the 3803 decoder?

Can anyone else chime in with opinions regarding their experience with receiver decoding(specify) vs 3910 decoding?

Originally posted by shlomore

as someone who have the az-9 and 3910 combo i would like to ask you one more thing if i may?
when playing sacd via i link with multi chanel,i cant use the es-ex button on the yamaha remote to get the back speakers work as matrix...
but when i swich off the i link on the dvd,i can add with sacd the back speakers with the es-ex button,,can you clearify that plz??

thanks,,
shlomore [/B]

yes, this is true for me also. If using the iLink, you cannot use the forced matrix features like EX or PLIIx on DVD Audio or SACD (note: DVD-A can have DTS-ES 6.1 discreet, but it must be encoded on the disk). But you can use the matrix decoding for 7.1 audio on any DVD Video with standard Dolby Digital or DTS signals that are over iLink.
The only way you can use the EX, or PLIIx 6.1/7.1 matrix on 5.1 DVD-A/SACD, is to connect it to the MultiChannel input via analog connection to the Z9. That way, to the Z9 it is just standard PCM signals, which it can do anything it likes to. the reason why this'limitation' occurs over iLink may have something to do with Digital Rights? someone else may be able to clarify this.
i personally do not use the matrix decoding for 7.1 sound on SACD or DVD-A.
It would be interesting to know what those, with a 3910 and iLink and a 3805 combo, experience in this matter.

cheers
KJ
(just a note: so that this thread keeps directly on the topic of the 3910, you may be better off to PM me or post a new thread in the apropriate fourm. :))

Originally posted by mimason
Can anyone else chime in with opinions regarding their experience with receiver decoding(specify) vs 3910 decoding?

The onboard decoding of my 3910 sounds much better to me than decoding by my Lexicon DC-1 version 4 pre-amp.

Hi,

Just for your interest, for those asking about the difference between the analog R&L, or the FR&FL and what the difference is when playing a stereo source from CD or SACD.
I did a bit of testing with my PC and Z9.

I hooked up the 3910 to my soundcard (Creative SB Audigy Platinum) via Tara Labs interconnects. I used WaveLab 4, with it set to record at 24bit 96kHz, on every recording.
I then set the 3910 to, Source Direct: ON, and left all the default settings for delay and sound levels.
I played the first 20 seconds of a SACD for each relevant test. And the first 20 sec of a normal CD for each relevant test.

These were the 4 different tests I conducted for stereo sound and the different outputs:

STEREO SACD, connected to the R and L stereo outputs
STEREO SACD, connected to the FR and FL multi outputs

STEREO CD, connected to the R and L stereo outputs
STEREO CD, connected to the FR and FL multi outputs


I also have the option of using the Z9 to my advantage here. The Z9 has 'Pure Direct Multi Channel inputs' and a dedicated 'Pure Direct 2ch input.'
Both of these supposedly cut out everything in terms of additional processing in the signal path, creating the supposed cleanest audio signal it can give. And the Z9 can switch between these two Pure Direct modes pretty much instantaneously.
This meant that I could connect the following with the 3910 and the Z9;

3910 MULTI-CH OUT 'FR & FL' to the Z9 MULTI CH IN 'FR & FL'
And at the same time;
3910 STEREO OUT 'R & L' to the Z9 2ch PURE DIRECT IN 'R &L'

So when playing a CD or stereo SACD, I could switch between what the 3910 was outputting from each connection i.e. FR&FL or R&L and see if I could hear a difference.

What I found out, with the help of my headphones (sennheiser HD-580) and from what I recorded with the computer, was;
I could tell no difference at all as to which was better and if there was any change in sound quality. The recordings that I made also showed a similar finding, there was no difference.

I thought it would be a bit of fun and use up some free time.
Please let me know what you think; if you think my conclusion is invalid and/or the setup was not correct. Also I will admit that the hardware I used for the test (soundcard and headphones) have limits and are not professional products, but if I can hear no real difference with these, then I doubt very much I will hear any huge difference with higher quality gear.
I will see if I can post some of the wave charts of the recorded audio for comparison.

Cheers
KJ

here is the SACD stereo compact view,

the Stereo via R&L is the top view
the Stereo via FR&FL is the bottom view

here is a part of the same section again, just zoomed in a lot more.
I only chose one channel from each so that i could make the picture larger

again:
the Stereo via R&L is the top view
the Stereo via FR&FL is the bottom view

I highlighted in red where there are minor, minor differencees, but this could just be due to the sound card and its limited capabilities. and don't forget jpeg compression and, this is very zoomed in :)

Originally posted by mimason
Agree about 7.1 but can you substantiate your claim about the decoder being superior in the 3805.

Based on only one comparison with Monster Inc. DD I could definietly hear more detail from the 3910 decoding compared to the 3803. Is the 3805 that much better than the 3803 decoder?

Can anyone else chime in with opinions regarding their experience with receiver decoding(specify) vs 3910 decoding?

You wanted facts and not personal oppinions - so here ya go :)

DECODERS

DENON AVR3805
---------------------
32-Bit Floating point DSP
3rd Generation SHARC ADSP-21266
1200 MFLOPs

(AVR3803 = 32-Bit Floating point DSP SHARC "Hammerhead Melody 100")
Yes 3805 is better than the 3803 DSP - Denon do move forward after all :)

IF you have missed all the tests of the 3805 here are a few:
Short test English (http://hiddenwires.co.uk/resourcesnews2004/news20040413-01.html)
Long test German -needs to be babelfished maybe for you guys (http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/denonavr3805.shtml)

Denon DVD3910
---------------------
The only info you can find on the net about the decoder is that its a dual SHARC hammerhead DSP for bass management and processing.
If it would have been anything new or good they would not need 2 of them and they certainly would have written the name out of the DSP just like they did with the gread B&B D/´s ;)

If you think the 3910 built in decoder is so great then go ahead and use it - personaly I cant agree.
If it would have been as great or greater than the 3805 they would have built in the automatic equalisation (or at least made it possible to adjust eq for each channel manually) but the 3910 can not do that. Why? Because the didnt have time ti fix the software? No I dont think so beacuse the DSP aint good enought to handle it, the put thei powder on the music and picture section instead since this is what a DVD player is about. To produce a good base signal to the reciever or AMP to work with (when it comes to movie sound).

----------------------------

L + R pros (vd 5.1 out):
- Silmic audiphile grade capacitors for the output stage (5.1 does not have that)
- also other things - search google for info - thats how i learnt about the 3910 before it was on the market. Now when I tried it I must say that specs said a lot but really was not quite as good as that. But of course - its a great machine and I will buy one of the fix the picture issue over DVI.

---------------------------



HUGE German test of the DVD3910 (babelfish it if you dont speak german) (http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/denon_dvd_3910.shtml)

Regards
Boogie

^^^^Thanks for the response. I'll definitely have to break out more discs tonight and do some real critical listening.

Strictly for DVD movies, is it preferable to use the analog outs on my 3910 to an amp (in my case it would be the 6 channel analog inputs on my receiver), or run digital to my receiver and let the reciever do the processing? I guess what I would like to know, is the decoder/sound processor in my 3910 be a step up from my Yamaha receiver?

Originally posted by minneapolis
Strictly for DVD movies, is it preferable to use the analog outs on my 3910 to an amp (in my case it would be the 6 channel analog inputs on my receiver), or run digital to my receiver and let the reciever do the processing? I guess what I would like to know, is the decoder/sound processor in my 3910 be a step up from my Yamaha receiver?

hi,

i personally think that it will depend on what Yamaha receiver you have. But generally, for DD or DTS, your receiver should be always a notch ahead/better in processing than the DVD player.
It also usually makes life alot easier if you send the digital signal to the receiver for processing, that way everything is done in the one unit and all the bass managment in there, and you don't have to worry about speaker levels and delay settings on both units so they match.
Also, DVD-Video (DD and DTS) usually have slightly different levels to DVD-Audio and SACD. So instead of trying to intergrate everything, you may find that it is easier to send the Digital signal to your amp for DD and DTS, and then use the DVD players speaker levels and settings with the MULTI Channel connection specifically setup for DVD-A and SACD. (the 3910 is brilliant in the DVD-A and SACD area)

but again, 'strictly for DVD movies', try to always use the receiver for DD and DTS, as it should be a lot better in the processing department. (but still depends on what amp you have)

my thoughts anyway :)

cheers

I tried burning mp3-dvd but all of them failed to play in my 3910. I know it can be done because a friend at another forum burn one just fine, but I cannot reach him now to ask him how.

Anyone burn a successful mp3-dvd, if so, what program and what settings?

Originally posted by Krazykaj

but again, 'strictly for DVD movies', try to always use the receiver for DD and DTS, as it should be a lot better in the processing department. (but still depends on what amp you have)

my thoughts anyway :)

cheers

The biggest advantage to having the receiver to the decoding is the ability to apply DDPLIIx to movies which will give you 5.1 and 7.1 channels of sound. Doing it in the player will limit you to whatever the DVD was encoded with, and many have only 2.0 soundtracks. Are far as raw decoding I don't think you would hear a difference in which component does the decoding. These soundtracks are not really a HiRez signal like SACD or DVD-A.

Jim :)

Originally posted by keenan
The biggest advantage to having the receiver to the decoding is the ability to apply DDPLIIx to movies which will give you 5.1 and 7.1 channels of sound. Doing it in the player will limit you to whatever the DVD was encoded with, and many have only 2.0 soundtracks.

i don't know if this is the case, i can add any effect, DSP, matrix, upmixing to '9.2' channels on any incoming signal over the MultiChannel input. it does not matter if the signal in 2.0 or 5.1. The receiver looks at the mutlichannel in (generally) as a 5.1 signal, usually as a DD equivalent. So you can apply PLIIx, EX, THX etc. processing on Multi Channel in. so if the DVD is 2 channel, you still should be able to create a multichannel sound field with it, you shouldn't be stuck with 2.0, well i can do it on my amp anyway :)
I think this is the case also with many other receivers.

The only thing that, now you mentioned it :), you will miss if you let the DVD player do the decoding of the movie Soundtracks (DD, DTS) is if the DVD is encoded in 'DTS-ES discrete'. I do not know of any DVD player that will decode DTS-ES and output a 6.1 signal analog (3910 included), they will all do only DTS 5.1. So if you have an amp that is capable of DTS-ES you will want to use the digital connection for these special instances.

Are far as raw decoding I don't think you would hear a difference in which component does the decoding. These soundtracks are not really a HiRez signal like SACD or DVD-A. [/B]

exactly what i wanted to say :) it's amazing how it can be put so simply.

setup your 3910 to play DVD-A and SACD perfectly, and use the amp for everything else.

cheers again,
KJ

Originally posted by Krazykaj
i don't know if this is the case, i can add any effect, DSP, matrix, upmixing to '9.2' channels on any incoming signal over the MultiChannel input. it does not matter if the signal in 2.0 or 5.1. The receiver looks at the mutlichannel in (generally) as a 5.1 signal, usually as a DD equivalent. So you can apply PLIIx, EX, THX etc. processing on Multi Channel in. so if the DVD is 2 channel, you still should be able to create a multichannel sound field with it, you shouldn't be stuck with 2.0, well i can do it on my amp anyway :)
I think this is the case also with many other receivers.
Unfortunately, this isn't the case with the Denon 3805. When using the 5.1 Ext In (analog) connections, you cannot do any processing to that signal within the 3805. That's why the BM in the 3910 is so critical.

Jason

there you go . . . you learn something new every day!
that's got to be a pain in the backside. basically, what you get into the 3805 via MultiChannel, is what you hear.

"That's why the BM in the 3910 is so critical."
point taken, and thankfully the 3910 has got very good BM.

oh well,

cheers

Originally posted by Krazykaj

I think this is the case also with many other receivers.

KJ

Now I see where you are coming from on this, I guess I should have paid closer attention to your related equipment. It may be the case for many other receivers, but it is not the case for the large majority currently available, in fact I can only think of a few off the top of my head(I have a small head :p ) the Anthem D1, the top Yamaha and maybe 2-3 others, all fairly expensive units.

This is one reason why my next processor will probably be the D1, just have to figure out which bank to rob or which limb to cut off..:D

Jim :)

Originally posted by keenan
... just have to figure out which bank to rob or which limb to cut off...
Yeah, it'll be which "limb" the wife cuts off! :D

Jason

Has anyone added an sdi mod to the 3910 and if so are you happy with it?
I understand it has one of the best mpeg decoders.

^^Search this thread for SDI. Adamsfbay did.

OK from what i can gather, the i-link issue with DD is a bug with the MR firmware denon released. This affects the region 2 units, not sure about region 1.

Considering that High Def DVD formats are looming is the upcoming 5910 too much, too late? It seems to me that the 3910 strikes the right balance of quality and price at this time, especially if it comes down a bit more in price in a few months. (like $799?).

Hell, for $799 I might buy another! I freakin' love this player...

Jason

Anyone know where I can get remote codes for my 3910 ??

Thx!!

-- Cain

Cain, email Harmony Remote, they have them but who knows if they'll share. Have you checked remotecentral.com

Scott

Thx, heading over to Remote Central now...

-- Cain

Cain -

You can also find the codes, IR and serial, on Denon's website. Please follow this link:

http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/products.asp?l=1&c=5

Andre'

to all the people who have already flashed their DVD-3910 with
the multiregional (code free) firmeware:

PLEASE PROVIDE THE LINK/DOWNLOAD/FILE-NAME

i have been trying to search and hunt down this file the entire
day - unfortunately with little success!

highly appreciated!
thanx, nik

You'll find it in thread 461075, titled: "found a working REGION Free Firmware for Denon-2910 Dvd Player, also 3910 possibly"

(Sorry I can't post the whole link but the stupid forum software won't let me post a link to itself!)

Have fun!

You can also find the codes, IR and serial, on Denon's website. Please follow this link:

Thank you Andre !!

-- Cain

Cheers, Cain!

I installed today the 6 cables for using direct analog sound from the 3910 to my AV Harman Kardon receiver. I noticed that the default volume was unusually high. I turned down the volume in all channels. Sound is now great when using SACDs (although still too loud), but when I try a DVD DTS video, for example, the volume is even louder. Just with one click it goes from mute to mind-blowing volume. The volume control in the receiver doesn't seem to work after installing the cables. The problem occurs in both the digital (coaxial) and the analag inputs. The other dvd player I have connected to the receiver (via optical cable) works fine.

Is there any explanation for this?:confused:

I have just replaced my trusty but tired old Denon 2800 Mk1 with a sparkling new Denon 3910 and am experiencing a problem that I would appreciate some help with.

I am in the UK and therefore almost all of my DVDs are PAL R2. I have good quality component video cables installed in my viewing room so want to stick with this format. The DVD player is outputting to an Optoma Themescene H55; a well regarded DLP projector that handles 480i, 480P, 576P, 720i, 720P and 1080i inputs and has a DVDO Silicon Image Si504 scaler.

The problem is this. The Optoma synchs with all of my DVDs when the Denon 3910 is set to output component interlaced; 480i. However, when the Denon 3910 is set to output PAL component progressive – 576P (my intention) – then the Optoma only manages to synch with the incoming signal and present an image with about 30% of my DVDs. With the other 70% the projector flashes a few different colours and then says ‘no signal found’- even though all of these DVDs are PAL R2 and there is no obvious difference between those that do 576P and those that do not.

Examples of DVDs that ‘do’ 576P are Adaptation, Gangs of NY and French Kiss. Ones that do not include Star Wars II, Shrek, Gladiator and Phone Booth.

Interestingly, on the ‘failed’ DVDs, pressing the menu button on the remote brings up the menu screen with a perfect still shot from the DVD that the projector will not recognise and synch with in ‘Play’ mode.

Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated.

hi people,

I am thinking of getting the 3910 together with the NAD T163. One thing Ihave noticed is that the T163 does not have a lip sync feature. I will be connecting the 3910 via DVI (720P) to my projector (720 Native).

Do you guys think I will require a lip sync feature? Can the speaker distance setting in the 3910 double up as an audio delay?

navarros
You can adjust this. I think it's in the manual.
I think you just select the input and then press the enter button and use the left and right buttons around it to adjust the volumes of the different speakers.

I haven't been on the bulletin board for awhile and wondered if anyone had found a solution to my earlier problem yet. To recap, if I set my player to AUDIO mode I can get high rez 5.1 and high rez stereo from my DVD-A, but no on screen menu via DVI. If I set my player to VIDEO mode I get DD or DTS 5.1 or stereo but not high rez...I do however get the on screen menu via DVI.

I made this claim before. Some people were convinced I was lying, but its true. Since then I've seen that some people have had earlier models that had this problem while, later models did not. Any info to share?? I'd really appreciate it. Its not a huge issue, but sort of annoying I guess. I get the on screen menu either way with the component, but I just like using the DVI dammit :)

Thanks in advance.

FoolintheRain,

What firmware version do you have?