I have already loaded the firmware update with no effect seen. I literally just checked it to make sure I wasn't going nuts. By the way...I know its off subject, but.

NIN: Downward Spiral

on SACD w/b-sides and unreleased songs
on dualdisc w/videos

Tough choice. I think I'll go with Dualdisc because its like half the price and both will play in a standard CD player if need be. Just my thoughts

Thanks

has anyone noticed if their 3910 is very sensitive to even slightly scratched DVD's?

I've had a few movies now (borrowed from the video store), that basically freeze because the 3910 cannot read the disc.
I wouldn't mind too much, but, not five minutes ago, I had to stop watching a (good) movie because of this reason.
I took the DVD out and played it on my PC's DVD-ROM, it worked fine. I then put the DVD in a really old/early DVD player, and first time it had glitches, but i tried it again and it then worked fine.
So I went back down, put it in the 3910 and it didn't work, in fact, it seemed that everytime i took it out, looked at the DVD, put it back in, it was either worse by freezing where it didn't before, or sometimes it was ok where it did freeze before, yet it always froze eventually. strange.

Is this just something i will have to put up with? i just thought it odd that an old DVD player (which i know for a fact is very sensitive to scratches) played the disk ok, and so did the PC. Yet a latest in DVD technology player can't get past the same DVD.

And the scratches on the DVD don't seem all that bad compared to what i have seen and yet have played alright.

anyway, just thought i'd ask,

cheers
KJ

Foolin

Denon has acknowledged the problem and say that they are working on it. My original firmware didnt exhibit the problem but when I updated to the latest, DVD-A menus stopped working on some of my disks. Some still work OK so its not ALL DVD-A's.

Hi fellows,

I wonder if anyone has noticed, that the 3910 does not really remember the DVI black level setting. After turning on I always have to manually select the "Normal" setting, to let the player really use this setting. (you can notice that immediately on the visible brightness increase). The strange thing is, that the player indeed remembers the black level setting, as I can see it correctly in the on screen menu, however the player does not use this really until I select "Normal" manually.
As far as I know, only one guy reported this strange behavior and suggested to use the 7.5 IRE setting to circumvent this, but I'm not sure if this is not causing other problems.
As stated by other forum members before, the correct setting for DVI output should be black level "Normal", IRE level 0 when using a display which expects DVI video levels (16-235), which is the case for my P50.

Anyone else noticed this and has probably a fix for that? (BTW I have the latest firmware applied)

Markus

Originally posted by Krazykaj
has anyone noticed if their 3910 is very sensitive to even slightly scratched DVD's?

KJ

Krazykaj,

My first 3910 did the same thing, it wouldn't even play 'Shrek 2". I returned the unit and the replacement unit works great. Both units where made in August2004, don't know the firmware.

Originally posted by fiftyinch
Hi fellows,

I wonder if anyone has noticed, that the 3910 does not really remember the DVI black level setting. After turning on I always have to manually select the "Normal" setting, to let the player really use this setting. (you can notice that immediately on the visible brightness increase). The strange thing is, that the player indeed remembers the black level setting, as I can see it correctly in the on screen menu, however the player does not use this really until I select "Normal" manually.
As far as I know, only one guy reported this strange behavior and suggested to use the 7.5 IRE setting to circumvent this, but I'm not sure if this is not causing other problems.
As stated by other forum members before, the correct setting for DVI output should be black level "Normal", IRE level 0 when using a display which expects DVI video levels (16-235), which is the case for my P50.

Anyone else noticed this and has probably a fix for that? (BTW I have the latest firmware applied)

Markus

It should remember, make sure you hit "enter" after selecting it.

My 3910 doesn't remember the blacklevel setting either. To be precise, it does display the correct setting. But the output level stays at "Extended". If you select "Normal" again the output level switches to that value. I have to use "Extended" and +7.5 IRE to get the best results with my Screenplay 5700 (connected using the DVI-output of the player).
The 3910 is very sensitive to lubricate residues (?) at the inside of the inner ring of DVDs. Until now I got every DVD working. I have removed the residues using a flat screwdriver.

Andreas

Does anyone own (or listened to) a 3910 or 5900 that has had its audio section upgraded, say by:

a) Underwood HiFi [http://www.underwoodhifi.com/mod_denon.html] or
b) Modwright [http://www.modwright.com/products/index.php?product_id=19]

In my financially-advantaged days (now a distant memory) I got hooked by audiophile gear like Wadia, Meridian, Theta Digital, etc. Now my "high end" CD/DVD player is a Samsung 931 ("barf" would be too polite a word) - but I can't afford the ridiculously premium-priced stuff any longer.

So I was hoping that either: (a) the 3910 as-is would suffice, or (b) someone would persuade me that the audio-section mods turned Denon's slightly-better-than-average audio into something special and I should scrounge up another $1000.

CraigSharrow-

I don't know about the mods, but I would certainly give the 3910 a shot right out of the box. I'm not a high-end user, but I've been more than impressed by the audio quality of the 3910, whether it's SACD, DVD-A, or stereo CD. They all sound magnificent, and surprisingly better than my Pioneer Elite 45-A (again, not a high-end unit...).

Jason

Originally posted by CraigSharrow
Does anyone own (or listened to) a 3910 or 5900 that has had its audio section upgraded, say by........

Craig,

I'm an audio guy too. My front-end digital is a Sony SCD-1 modded by Richard Kern. I recently bought the 3910 and have to say it's pretty good for the money. Sure, it doesn't have the round, warm midrange that makes the SCD-1 so killer, but it does hold it's own in bass and treble smoothness. If I had to get rid of the SCD-1, I could still enjoy the stock sound of the 3910 without too much regret. A lot of audio bang-for-the-buck IMO.

Jason & Sam:

Thanks for the input. I'm assuming that most everyone in this thread would opt for the 3910 rather than the discontinued 5900

(BTW, my surround sound processor accepts DVI input and my Sammy HLP 5063 takes both HDMI and DVI - currently I'm feeding DVD to HDMI and HDTV to DVI inputs on the Sammy)

Originally posted by CraigSharrow
Jason & Sam:

Thanks for the input. I'm assuming that most everyone in this thread would opt for the 3910 rather than the discontinued 5900



As far as video goes, yes, I think they would because of the better handle on the MB problem as opposed to the 5900. As far as audio goes, if you can find a 5900 for around the price of the 3910 I would go for the 5900. The edge to the 5900 by most accounts is slight but if you are going after the best audio, the 5900 would be the one. Although a modded 3910 could probably be made to sound better I'm sure than a stock 5900, so, as always, it comes down to performance vs price, the perpetual conundrum. :D

I agree with keenan.
I think the 5900 edges out the 3910 slightly, but they both sound very good. For me the macroblocking thing has not been a factor with either and I think it's over rated. I do think they did get more video things right with the 3910. I don't feel bad about exchanging my 5900 for a 3910, even though I got the 5900 at a close to 3910 price. But don't bring it up again, please!

Originally posted by tsteves
But don't bring it up again, please!

Sorry...:( :p

I got my 3910 yesterday and I´m having some troubles.

First I can´t get Denon link to work with my 3805, in the 3910 setup menu I can´t turn the Denon Link on becuase the option is grey/faded out, why is that? And also when I chose Denon Link on the 3805 it has an option of ext. input or analog... what´s that about?

My second problem is that I have black level set to normal(which is what kris deering recomends if I remember correctly), but when I turn the player off and on again, then it seems the player goes to "enhanced", even though the display says it´s still at normal... that is the display says "normal" but when I change to enhanced the picture doesn´t change, but when I change back to normal, then the picture changes??

Hi Keyser,

I have a 3910 on layby and have been reading all the threads I can find about the unit.
Your first issue sounds like something posted in an Aussie forum.
I take it you have connected the Dlink cable after you have plugged in the 3910?
It has been noted that if you turn off and unplug the power cord to the 3910 for 15 seconds with the Dlink connected and then plug the power cord back in the Dlink will work.
Not sure why this works but someone else posted this experience.
When you choose Dlink input the 3805 asks you what to look for if there is no Dlink input on the source selected.
I imagine you will also listen to SACD & DVDA so set this to EXT IN.

The second issue has been noted by Aussies too. I suppose it will require a firmware update from Denon to remedy.

Hope this helps

J

Hmmmm... So I´ll unplug the 3910, wait a while and plug it again and then I should be able to set the Dlink to "on". And then I assume that the 3805 won´t ask me for "analog" or "ext.input"? I won´t be playing SACD, just using the D.link, to analogs.

Thanks for the help, I was going nuts yesterday trying to figure this out.

Keyser, every time you set an audio input to 'Dlink' in the 3805 input menu it will ask 'No signal - Analogue/Ext in'.
What it just wants to know is if there is no incoming signal on the Dlink where do I look next?
If you will not be listening to High res formats DVD-A or SACD then I guess it doesn't matter which you select.
I hope the unplugging and plugging back in with the Dlink connected allows you to turn on the output in the 3910 player now :)

J

Originally posted by keyser
I got my 3910 yesterday and I´m having some troubles.

First I can´t get Denon link to work with my 3805, in the 3910 setup menu I can´t turn the Denon Link on becuase the option is grey/faded out, why is that? And also when I chose Denon Link on the 3805 it has an option of ext. input or analog... what´s that about?



Have you set the 3910 and the 3805 according to this setup guide? It's for the 5900 but should work as well for the 3910.

http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/pdfs/5900_3805%20setup%20tips.pdf
5900_3805 setup tips.pdf (application/pdf Object)

I unplugged the DVD player, waited a while, plugged it in again and turned it on and Denon Link is still greyed out!! What can be the problem?

one thing you can do is to make an adjustment to hdmi sound. then go out of the setup and back again. and voilá...

I´ll try that.. it´s weird there´s no mention of these problems in the manual.

I just read the tips for the 5900... very complex. Don´t I just get the Denon link to work, then do the 3805 calibration again and that´s that? Everything will work like a daisy?

i know with the IEEE 1394, in order to change the setting, also with this Denon Link. The DVD MUST be stopped. you cannot have anything playing or paused, if you do the setting will be greyed out.

otherwise i'm not sure what the problem is?

Originally posted by keyser
I´ll try that.. it´s weird there´s no mention of these problems in the manual.

I just read the tips for the 5900... very complex. Don´t I just get the Denon link to work, then do the 3805 calibration again and that´s that? Everything will work like a daisy?

On the 3805, when in the Digital Assignment screen, does it say "DLink" for DVD? It should also say at the bottom of that screen "DLink No Signal" and "Ext In", if not, toggle left or right until it says Ext In.

Back out of the setup screen and select DVD on the remote and then Ext In.

Make sure you have done all your auto-setup and EQ functions before setting the 3910 up.

On the 3910, go to the audio setup and screen and see if Source Direct and DLink are set to off, if not do so. Then setup your speaker sizes to large and SW to yes. I'm assuming you have the analog cables hooked up for MCh SACD. Back out and then set your distances and levels.

When setting levels make sure the 3805 is set for ExtIN and the volume control is set at 00 decibels, that's the next reading past -0.5 , not ----

Once you are done with all that go back to the audio menu and toggle down to Denon Link and the right to highlight "2nd" and press enter. Everything thing else on this page should be greyed out now. Back out of the menus.

On the 3805 with ExtIn selected press the I.Mode button until it reads "Auto".

Be sure to turn the volume back down on the 3805 before you try and listen to anything.

All this is in those setup tips, Once you read through them a couple of times carefully they are pretty easy to follow, I really recommend you try them, everything I have said here comes right from those tips.

Good Luck

Just purchased a 3910. Could someone please post the latest firmware version. Thanks.

Just got a new Denon 3910 with SDi from JVB.WOW!! What a picture!
I wasn't expecting such an improvement over the DVi output but the SDi picture is fantastic! much more detail and not an artifact to be seen.
I run the sdi into a dvdo iscan HD and dvi out to my set.
It is THE ultimate upgrade and well worth it.
Contact Bas at JVB and he will hook you up.
You will never need or want anything else!

The problem was that I had a DVD playing/paused and therefor the Dlink was greyed out. It´s now working fine.

Keenan,
Thanks for the advice, I´ll print out the tips and try to calibrate this over the weekend. I´ll only be connecting the Dlink.. no SACD listening and CD will be in 7ch stereo, which will work fine with Dlink(but the sub wouldn´t work with stereo?)?
Thanks again.

I tried the "enhancers" and they did add detail to the image, but they also introduced awfull posturizing. The sky in Ice Ace looked dreadfull with vertical enhancer set to only 1. Maybe the DLP is making it worse, but for my 5700 the "enhancers" seem worthless.

Originally posted by jeadams
Just purchased a 3910. Could someone please post the latest firmware version. Thanks.

There is only one firmware upgrade available from Denon. Call or email their customer service, and they're very good at sending it out to you within a few days.

If I´m not gonna use analog outputs and not listen to SACD, do I still need to go through the calibration of the player (delay, sound levels etc.)?

keyser
Actually that would when you would want to try them.
For sacd ext in the auto setup doesn't help. For everything else it can be helpful. Or are you talking about manual?

Originally posted by keyser
If I´m not gonna use analog outputs and not listen to SACD, do I still need to go through the calibration of the player (delay, sound levels etc.)?

No - you will use the receiver's Auto calibration to set these. Even if you want to listen to DVD-Audio disks using your Denon Link connection, you can use your receiver to adjust all of your speaker settings and Room EQ.

Has anyone gotten their DVD-Audio on-screen graphics to work when connecting via DVI? I just had my TV calibrated, and we settled on DVI, but I forgot that I lose these graphics (including set up menu). I have done the firmware upgrade but is there another fix to restore DVD-A video? It does work on some of mine, including all of the AIX recordings, but not on the others, including Warner Bros.

Originally posted by JBaumgart
I have done the firmware upgrade but is there another fix to restore DVD-A video? It does work on some of mine, including all of the AIX recordings, but not on the others, including Warner Bros.

Did you have this problem even before you applied the firmware upgrade, or did this problem only start happening after you applied the firmware upgrade?

I received the firmware upgrade from Denon, but I haven't applied it yet.

Thanks.

Originally posted by JBaumgart.......
....have done the firmware upgrade but is there another fix to restore DVD-A video?

Has it anything to do with the following?

"OTHER SETUP" tab of the setup menu has a setting called "PLAYER MODE." When it's on "AUDIO," it plays/shows DVD-A tracks, menu, etc. When it's on "VIDEO," it will show video recorded on the DVD-A discs.

Is there any way to turn off DLink without going through the setup screen? I want to be able to listen to SACD without having to turn on my front projection unit to turn off DLink.
Thanks

Originally posted by randman
Did you have this problem even before you applied the firmware upgrade, or did this problem only start happening after you applied the firmware upgrade?

I received the firmware upgrade from Denon, but I haven't applied it yet.

Thanks.

I seem to recall having this problem before the firmware upgrade too, but I'm not totally sure as I've purchased most of my DVD-A's after I went to component. I made this switch after I got a Comcast HD set-top box, and the installer recommended I use DVI for that. The calibrator however said there wasn't much difference between the two, so I went back to using the DVI for the 3910 (he said there was less video noise this way).

So the answer to your question is, "I think so but I'm not totally sure." Sorry I can't give you a definite answer - maybe somebody else can chime in.

Originally posted by DennyH
Is there any way to turn off DLink without going through the setup screen? I want to be able to listen to SACD without having to turn on my front projection unit to turn off DLink.
Thanks
Can't you just change the source/input on your receiver? You shouldn't have to change the setting in the 3910.

Jason

conection via i link !
hi all

on page 35 on the 3910 manual,it says "when the denon link connection,could be output 176-192khz/24bit 2ch sources or 96khz/24bit 6ch sources"
my question is: does it also output the same (176-192khz/24bit 2ch sources or 96khz/24bit 6ch sources) when conecting via i link?

if yes,i wonder why denon didnt mention that also on the i link connection on their manual....

"Can't you just change the source/input on your receiver? You shouldn't have to change the setting in the 3910"

I have the 3805. When I try what you suggest, I get white noise overlaying the music on the SACD.
Anyone else have any ideas?

Originally posted by DennyH
I have the 3805. When I try what you suggest, I get white noise overlaying the music on the SACD.
Anyone else have any ideas?
DennyH-

How do you have the 3910 connected to the 3805? That might be part of the problem. The 3805/3910 combo is pretty popular, and I haven't heard of that problem before. Please post a detailed description of your connections.

Jason

I am using DLink for everything except SACD and 6 analog audio cables for listening to SACD. I can hear the SACD's if I go into the 3910 and turn off DLink in the setup menu, but if I DONT do this, I get the white noise overlaying the music.

Originally posted by DennyH
I am using DLink for everything except SACD and 6 analog audio cables for listening to SACD. I can hear the SACD's if I go into the 3910 and turn off DLink in the setup menu, but if I DONT do this, I get the white noise overlaying the music.

Have you set everything up according to this document? It's for the 5900 but it should work for the 3910 as well. You shouldn't have to turn off DLink when playing back SACD, the player/receiver combo will switch output and input automatically when properly setup.


http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/pdfs/5900_3805%20setup%20tips.pdf
5900_3805 setup tips.pdf (application/pdf Object)

Originally posted by shlomore
conection via i link !
hi all

on page 35 on the 3910 manual,it says "when the denon link connection,could be output 176-192khz/24bit 2ch sources or 96khz/24bit 6ch sources"
my question is: does it also output the same (176-192khz/24bit 2ch sources or 96khz/24bit 6ch sources) when conecting via i link?



Yes it should, in fact iLink will carry SACD signals whereas DLink will not, but I don't think you can use both DLink and iLink at the same time.

Yes, I used this exact document when setting up my combo.
:confused:

Originally posted by DennyH
Yes, I used this exact document when setting up my combo.
:confused:

So, with the 3805 set on DVD input and you put a SACD in the player, what happens, does the 3805 display the switch to ExtIn? I can't imagine it would make a difference but have you set the SACD hi-freq filter on the 3910?

Have you tried a different set of cables? You never know...

As far as that setup document, did you double check your procedures, I know when I first used it I had to go through it about 3 times before I understood it and got everything right?

Are you using the HDMI output for anything?

Yes it should, in fact iLink will carry SACD signals whereas DLink will not, but I don't think you can use both DLink and iLink at the same time.

thanks keenan,,,
i dont need the d link,since i use the az-9. i just wondered why denod on their 3910 manual only wrote the deatails regarding to the d link and not to the i link....if i understand your reply ,i link transfer data the same khz range as the d link? which means:176-192khz/24bit 2ch sources or 96khz/24bit 6ch sources....

thanks again,,,,

p.s. great combo,the 3910 and the az-9 .

i think the reason why D-Link specs are put in the manual is due to the fact that D-Link is Denons 'own' special connection format, and due to copyright and the laws and protection surround it, they need to state any downmixing/upmixing signal conversion that takes place. and by the law they have limitations in what they can do to the signal, i.e. DSD is completely banned.
iLink on the other hand it a general standard. It does not convert the signal. It will pass through whatever the signal is encoded as.
Basically iLink is transmiting the Raw, digital signal to the amp for decoding. So really, there is no such thing as "176-192khz/24bit 2ch sources or 96khz/24bit 6ch sources" for iLink, it is not applicable, well as i understand it anyway :)

cheers
KJ

What has been the experience of folks who bought Denon players thru some of the non-authorized Internet sources? It seems that everyone who is "authorized" is charging MSRP. Does Denon refuse to service, update/upgrade or honor warranty guarantees on "gray market" products?

If there is a significant problem in buying non-authorized, does anyone have recommendations (PM me) regarding an authorized retailer that has "reasonable/discount" prices for Denon 3910s?

Alternately, have any group buys been planned?

Thanks

Re: Loss of video using DVI connection after doing firmware upgrade when playing DVD-A's

Originally posted by jigesh
Has it anything to do with the following?

"OTHER SETUP" tab of the setup menu has a setting called "PLAYER MODE." When it's on "AUDIO," it plays/shows DVD-A tracks, menu, etc. When it's on "VIDEO," it will show video recorded on the DVD-A discs.

I did some more experimenting with this, and found that when setting the "Player Mode" to Video I do get video information on those disks that will not display any video when the Mode is set to "Audio." However when set up this way, I lose the high resolution audio as it plays in either DTS or DPL depending on the disk or what I choose. Certain other disks including all of AIX recordings that I have and Porcupine Tree's "In Absentia" play (in Multi-Ch In + IIx Music) and show the video fine, even with the Player Mode set to "Audio." So this is at least partially dependent on the disk and is not totally a function of using the DVI connection. On those disks that will not show video (I have two from Warner Bros including "Riding With The King" where this is the case) I can still play the audio by pressing "Play" but you cannot navigate the set up menu or even see which options are available without switching the Player Mode over to Video, which changes the default audio setting on my 3805.

Too bad on these disks you have to make this choice, unless I'm missing something else.

The Video and Audio options are for the following, I’ll use Americas 'Home Coming' DVD Audio as my example.

Most DVD-A have two sections on them. The first, and major part, is the actual DVD-Audio part, the hi-res audio. Now this 'section' can only be played by a DVD-Audio DVD player (like the 3910)
The Second part of DVD-Audio DVD's (most, not all I should say) is what it called the DVD-Video section. This section is for those DVD players that CANNOT read DVD-Audio, but can read DTS or DD. It is for those people that still want to hear multichannel, fairly good quality, audio but don't have the necessary gear, like a DVD-Audio specific player.

Now, the 3910 has the ability to play DVD-Audio, hi-res sound AND it also has the ability to play DTS and DD compressed Audio. The thing is, what if somebody has a 3910 but has not connected the anaolg connections and doesn't care too much for hi-res audio (they only have coax or toslink connected)?
Taking my example, the 'Homecoming' DVD, they would put this disk into their player, hit play, sit back waiting for some decent surround sound music, but hear absolutely nothing.
The reason why, is, the 3910, being a DVD-Audio player and having this 'special' ability to read the hi-res audio, automatically goes to, 'reads', the section of the disk that is the DVD-Audio portion. Now on some disks, like Queen A Night at the Opera, you can just go to the DVD's menu and change the audio selection to DTS or PCM stereo. But with a lot of DVD-A you do not have this luxury, you either are in the hi-res audio section or are not and you cannot switch between the two.

So, what the option in the OTHER SETUP -> PLAYER MODE does, is when you have it set to:
AUDIO (default), the 3910 says "i am to act as a proper DVD-Audio player, my user wants hi-res audio so i will make sure i always choose that part of the disk"
If you however choose and set the option to VIDEO the 3910 says the following "My user hasn't yet set me up, or doesn't care about hi-res audio, he wants the audio that can be sent across his caox/toslink connection and be decoded elsewhere, so i will act like a standard DVD-Video player that cannot read hi-res audio, and choose the DTS/DD/PCM section that EVERY DVD player can read"

So with the 'Homecoming DVD, if i wanted to compare the DD track to the hi-res DVD Audio track; I would have to stop playback and change the 3910 from AUDIO to VIDEO it order to get at the two formats.

Basically it is like with SACD, you tell the player if you what it to start in either the MUTLI section or the STEREO section, or the CD section. If you don’t have analog connections and you cannot hear the DSD hi-res audio, you want to make sure the SACD setting is on CD, which is just reading the boring old normal format, the equivalent to the VIDEO option on the 3910.

I just wanted to clear up the AUDIO/VIDEO options on the 3910.

Now my thinking is, is that the 3910 has a problem with displaying video on disks with theses two completely separate sections, so you would have the problem with Homecoming and Chesky’s DVD-Audio setup disk. But for the ones where you can actually change audio selection on the DVD itself of hi-res audio to compressed audio, like A Night at the Opera, or Chesky’s weird and wonderful surround show, the 3910 would not have this problem. as as the player can be set to VIDEO, and you can still select hi-res sound on the DVD itself. The problem comes when you want hi-res audio, but you cannot have VIDEO set in the menu for a certain disk.

I do not have DVI connection at the moment, so I cannot test this more.
The only way I can maybe stick up for Denon and possibly wrap my mind around why you get no picture with DVI connection is, maybe they figure that;
The 3910 automatically plays on disk insertion, the DVD-audio hi-res music, if you have AUDIO selected, so you don’t need to navigate any menus for that.
Moreover, they may figure, the whole point of the DVD-A hi-res audio is music, not to be looking at menus’s and pictures, so you don’t need video for that. And seeing as the player automatically plays music when set in AUDIO mode (if it doesn’t, which it should, it is not too hard to press the play button once or twice) there is no real need to a display or picture, so they cut it out to give a PURE audio experience.

But I highly doubt this :) as you should be able to set the display on or off yourself, it is just another bug that needs to be fixed by Denon.

But I highly doubt this :) as you should be able to set the display on or off yourself, it is just another bug that needs to be fixed by Denon.
So, has anyone actually contacted Denon about it? If so, what did they say?

Originally posted by CraigSharrow
What has been the experience of folks who bought Denon players thru some of the non-authorized Internet sources? It seems that everyone who is "authorized" is charging MSRP. Does Denon refuse to service, update/upgrade or honor warranty guarantees on "gray market" products?

If there is a significant problem in buying non-authorized, does anyone have recommendations (PM me) regarding an authorized retailer that has "reasonable/discount" prices for Denon 3910s?

Alternately, have any group buys been planned?

Thanks

Try reading what Denon has to say about this issue here:

http://www.usa.denon.com/home/

Originally posted by awhb
So, has anyone actually contacted Denon about it? If so, what did they say?

Denon knows about it and have indicated to me that they are working on it. Earlier versions of firmware didnt have this problem. I also have 'Riding with the King' (Great DVD-A!!) which displayed the video menus fine in audio mode until I upgraded to the latest firmware. After the upgrade... it no longer worked. I reported to Denon and they indicated that they were aware and working on it.

OK guys, I have an odd problem, not sure what it is tho.

I use HDMI output to my projector.

Whenever I start up a new DVD the black level is waaay off. If I scroll through the HDMI outputs, 1080i, 720P, 480P, then the blacklevel goes back to normal. In fact if I change the output to anything else, the blacklevel gets fixed.

Anyone seen this?? There is something funky going on with the blacklevel and the HDMI output.

-- Cain

Originally posted by scsiraid
Denon knows about it and have indicated to me that they are working on it. Earlier versions of firmware didnt have this problem. I also have 'Riding with the King' (Great DVD-A!!) which displayed the video menus fine in audio mode until I upgraded to the latest firmware. After the upgrade... it no longer worked. I reported to Denon and they indicated that they were aware and working on it.

I also sent them an email (a few days ago) but have received no reply. :confused:

scsiraid, just curious, are you using a DVI connection? After upgrading the firmware, have you tried to play and view the video on this disk via component?

Krazykag, thanks for the explanation. It does look like Denon just screwed up a bit with their new firmware, and hopefully a newer release will address this issue. I personally like being able to view the graphics when playing a DVD-A, either because they are nice to look at in their own right or they give you some options to work with and a feeling of being better able to navigate the disk.

Originally posted by JBaumgart
It does look like Denon just screwed up a bit with their new firmware, and hopefully a newer release will address this issue. I personally like being able to view the graphics when playing a DVD-A, either because they are nice to look at in their own right or they give you some options to work with and a feeling of being better able to navigate the disk.

my preference as well :)
. . . .

just out of curiosity,

How is everyones 3910 for menu navigation speed.
I had an original A11/5900 with no firmware updates, and my 3910 is not as slow as that. But i also have owned a denon 2200, which compared to the 3910 i have now, was lightning fast speed.

I can, and was, putting up with the 'very average' menu speeds of my 3910, but i was curious if this is normal (seeing as we are discussing possible fixes needed to be released)? Should my menus be fast? I have three other DVD players, one is nearly 5 years old and the other is really cheap, and the thrid is a Yamaha, 5 disk DVD changer. All of them are alot faster than the 3910 in menu speeds and anything related.

Is this another thing that denon needs to address in their next firmware update? or is this meant to be as it is now and i have to higher expectations? or is there something wrong, maybe, with my player?

cheers
KJ

KJ,
The menu speeds are a little sluggish on the 3910, but I think it is something that Denon can fix if they want to like they did with the 5900.

Dave

I guess I would rate the menu speeds as average and about the same as my other player, a Panasonic RP-56. While faster would be better, I can easily live with how it is now.

On the DVD-A issue, I figured out that the two disks where I cannot view the video with the player set to "Audio" mode are both made by Warner Bros. I don't have a large DVD-A collection yet, only about 8 and 5 of these are AIX titles, but I wonder how many other makes of disks have this problem, other than Warner Bros.

Also over the weekend I had my display ISF calibrated, and the 3910's picture is noticeably improved, especially resolution and black levels. We tried both the component and DVI connections, and he liked the DVI slightly better. The calibrator in general was very picky and critical of "consumer gear" and I think mostly works on very high end equipment. I asked him what DVD players he likes the best, and he said Lexicon makes a "pretty good one" for about $4,000. I think I'll stick with what I've got...even if it's not perfect it looks very good to me, especially now.

The improvement was even more noticeable when viewing TV from my cable box, a Motorola DCT6200, which the calibrator was VERY critical of, but he said these boxes are all bad! For this input he said the component was about equal to DVI, and he could work with either, so we chose DVI for the 3910 (my TV only has one DVI input). Again, after he was all done, I don't think I have anything to complain about - the picture now looks about equal to viewing HD with my OTA antenna.

What display do you have JBaumgart?

Dave

Yes... I am using DVI. I havent tried with Component.

Originally posted by JBaumgart
I also sent them an email (a few days ago) but have received no reply. :confused:

scsiraid, just curious, are you using a DVI connection? After upgrading the firmware, have you tried to play and view the video on this disk via component?

Krazykag, thanks for the explanation. It does look like Denon just screwed up a bit with their new firmware, and hopefully a newer release will address this issue. I personally like being able to view the graphics when playing a DVD-A, either because they are nice to look at in their own right or they give you some options to work with and a feeling of being better able to navigate the disk.

If my memory is right, I think my 3910 navigation is slower than my ancient Pioneer 737. I watched lord of the rings the other day, and when I entered the select a scene menu and scrolled up and down I thought it was slower than my Pio(but my memory might be playing tricks on me).

Another nitpick is when I turn the player of the picture turns purple for a while...weird:)

But I think the picture is noticably sharper and cleaner than my old Pio.

will the firewire on the 3910 work with the 59txi?

they are both ieee 1394 standard but the denon states it doesnt work with i-link (sony standard) and the pioneer calls their's i-link

anyone use both these components?

thanks!!!

Hi people.

This is my first posting to this forum. I am the very happy owner of 3910/3805 combo connected via DVI to a Philips 42PF9966 plasma (European version). Awesome!!

Thanx for all the good information and tips!

My first querstion is (hopefully) a very simple one:
Most DVD's show up "letter-boxed" on the TV because they are recorded in aspect ration 2.something:1 instead of the 16:9 format of the TV. Is there a way, on the 3910, to output the DVD material so that the full height of the TV is used (however losing the sides of the original material, obviously)?
(My Philips plasma has all sorts of weird stretching features but they do not work via DVI)


For DennyH: I use exactly your setup and it works perfectly for me. The 3910 is connected to the 3805 via BOTH the Dlink AND 6 x audio interlinks. On the 3910 the Dlink is always turned ON in setup. On the 3805 (in digital input setup), DVD accepts input from Dlink and on the bottom right hand of that setup screen, you must specify that when there is no DLink signal, it should accept input from Ext.In. That is all. When playing anything but SACD on the 3910, the audio is transmitted via DLink tot he 3805. When playing SACD, 3910 automatically uses the analog outputs and 3805 automatically accepts input from Ext.In because there is no DLink signal. Thhus, I never need to touch a single setting.
If you leave the Dlink setting ON in the 3910 but disconnect the DLink cable, do you still get the white noice when playing SACD??

Originally posted by cmorreale
will the firewire on the 3910 work with the 59txi?

they are both ieee 1394 standard but the denon states it doesnt work with i-link (sony standard) and the pioneer calls their's i-link

anyone use both these components?

thanks!!!

Out of the box yes, but mine has been multi region modified and this has caused problems with the i-link and DD audio tracks with films.

Zero issues with SACD. I have gone back to the non MR firmware and i-link again works fine, so a dodgy firmware release by denon(this is a region 2 UK unit)

Originally posted by gandley
Out of the box yes, but mine has been multi region modified and this has caused problems with the i-link and DD audio tracks with films.

Zero issues with SACD. I have gone back to the non MR firmware and i-link again works fine, so a dodgy firmware release by denon(this is a region 2 UK unit)

Can you post the firmware version that was giving you i.link trouble? Is it the same downloadable version found linked to on this site?

Originally posted by Krazykaj
How is everyones 3910 for menu navigation speed.
I'm surprised at how sluggish the 3910 is. My Pioneer Elite 45a was much faster than the Denon, in menu navigation and open/close and startup, etc. I don't know why the 3910 is so dinosaurishly slow in nearly every mechanical regard, but it seems a bit absurd on such an expensive player (relatively speaking...).

Jason

"dinosaurishly slow"
That describes it.
You get used to it. Sort of like turning off the lights and having 5 seconds to get under the covers. It works well in some situations.
Maybe it's also a turtle-like attribute and it will live for 100 years?

Yeah, like any of these damn things will last 100 years! :D

It really annoys me how slow the 3910 is. I'll grab a CD, go over to the 3910, press the open button, wait for the unit to power up, watch the display tell me what kind of machine I have, and then finally, as I'm on the edge of nappiness (sleepy not reggae), the drawer opens. So I insert the silver platter of pleasure, press the close button, yawn, take a nap, wait for it to run every possible analysis on the CD, and finally it's ready to play. I'm being a moron about this, but it really is nutty how long it takes to load and play a disc. My 45 could knock this out in 6-8 seconds from a dead sleep. The Denon takes what seems like an eternity. I love the PQ and the SQ, but the NQ (the Now Quotient) really stinks. I want my music and I want it now...

Jason

Anyone know where I can get a 3910 for under the $1000.00 bucks they seem to be running in SILVER. Also, $1000.00! Anyone else think that this is mighty expensive for a DVD player that will be obsolete in a few years if not next year. I mean come on there are $39.00 DVDs out there that blow away the early ones and that trend will continue. I think its a shame Denon chose not to release something with 3910 HDMI capabilities at a lower price point. But, what can I do i want it NOW to hook up with my Denon 3805 so I guess it's bend over and touch my toe....

Originally posted by The Spectre
...so I guess it's bend over and touch my toe....
Ewwww...could you be a little less graphic? I mean, we were all thinking it, but it didn't have to be said...:)

Sub-$1K will be a bargain, especially from an authorized source (which I swear by, and not to). If you're so convinced the 3910 is going to be obsolete soon, "if not next year," why drop the cash on it? Wait for Blu-Ray or HD-DVD and save your cheese for crackers.

Jason

Can any owners of the 3910 who use DVI/HDMI help with this question: does the 3910 crop any pixels @ 720p?

Originally posted by Dave Vaughn
What display do you have JBaumgart?

Dave

I have a Sony KDF70XBR950 (70" LCD rear projection)

Originally posted by Sam Scamardo
Can any owners of the 3910 who use DVI/HDMI help with this question: does the 3910 crop any pixels @ 720p?

I found the 2910, similar to the 3910, had horizontal timing that was a little off, shifting the image to the left. But I was able to easily center the image using my displays horizontal sync adjustment.

If I recall correctly, it was about 5 pixels out of adjustment to the left.

Overscan seemed on the money.

JBaumgart,
That would explain why the picture is better through DVI...you lose a D/A conversion and then a A/D conversion. On my Hitachi RPTV, the component looks better than the DVI with actual viewing material.

Dave

Originally posted by The Spectre
Anyone know where I can get a 3910 for under the $1000.00 bucks they seem to be running in SILVER. Also, $1000.00! Anyone else think that this is mighty expensive for a DVD player that will be obsolete in a few years if not next year.
If you think it's too expensive, don't buy one!

Wait until the 5910 comes out... or buy a two year old Esoteric DV-50 for $5000.

Or perhaps a two year old Krell or Ayre for even more.

Or a Linn, or...

Anyone else seen a problem with Black level settings when you use HDMI output ??

-- Cain

Cain,

I have my 3910 connected to an Optoma H77 using a HDMI to DVI cable and have not experienced the problem that you described. What settings do you have for the HDMI/DVI black level and setup level?

Hey all, new to this thead. Just got my 3910 yesterday and hooked it up via DVI to my Sony 60XBR950. I am having the same issue with DVD-Audio, no video, but the sound plays fine. On some of my discs, the label "splashscreen" would display, and then the TV goes black with Video 7 showing up in the corner like you turned the source off. I tried ELP - Brain Salad Surgery, Queen - Night at the Opera, and Beach Boys - Pet Sounds all with the same results. I sent an email off to Denon today. I will check the board, and post if I hear something back.

Also, any 60 or 70xbr950 owners with any tweaking tips? I have only had
an hour or two to play with it.

Thanks,

Kelsyn,

PM sent.

Originally posted by CraigSharrow
What has been the experience of folks who bought Denon players thru some of the non-authorized Internet sources? It seems that everyone who is "authorized" is charging MSRP. Does Denon refuse to service, update/upgrade or honor warranty guarantees on "gray market" products?

If there is a significant problem in buying non-authorized, does anyone have recommendations (PM me) regarding an authorized retailer that has "reasonable/discount" prices for Denon 3910s?

Alternately, have any group buys been planned?

Thanks I bought one from Audio Breakthroughs (an authorized dealer on Long Island) last Wednesday, for $1050.00.

Got an word back from Denon about the video issue with DVD-Audio. They are sending me a patch to test. Hopefully it goes well, but either way I will let everyone know the results.

I've checked out some delay times on my Serial # 3466 Denon 3910 for a music CD:

1. Player is in standby mode, press play, 8 seconds to open tray
2. If player is already on, 2 seconds to open tray
3. Time for tray to close, load and read CD and for xhrs-yymin-zzseconds to show, 10 seconds

Menu navigation is instantaneous for skipping tracks, fast forwarding, bringing up audio menu, subtitle menu, etc. for movies.

I find it much faster than my Denon 1600, so I am quite satisfied with its response times.

--Ernie

Originally posted by ErnieW
I find it much faster than my Denon 1600, so I am quite satisfied with its response times.
That 1600 must have been slower than molasses in January! 10 seconds is ridiculous...

Don't get me wrong, I love this player and I would definitely buy it again, but I'm amazed at how slow this thing is to do just about anything.

Jason

If it is really that slow, I know that would bug the crap out of me. Just not a patient kinda guy!

Fortunately, the speed/response of this player is my only complaint. That and the cheesy wallpaper. :) I'm floored by the PQ and SQ, so the little things that bug me will just have to bug me...

Is the 5900 also slow?

Jason

Part of the slowness I think has to do with being a Universal player. The player goes through a checklist to see what type of disc is inserted. This is just a thought though and has no factual basis for the idea.

Dave

dude, spend the 10 seconds going upstairs and getting a beer, or walking back to your chair, putting the DVD case somewhere where you'll remember where it is...

For me, I stick the disk in, adjust the couch cushions, dim the lights (no control yet), lots of time.

If you're annoyed by 10 seconds, try waiting 4 hours for a big hard drive to format :\ wimps!

- D

If I believe Denons promotional text, when playing a CD in the 3910 to a DLink compatible receiver (3805 in my case) it should play very well.
Can anyone that is using the DLink for CD playback please comment.
I have a 3910 on order and would like to check this before paying for it.

Thanks,

J

Originally posted by JasonColeman

Is the 5900 also slow?

Jason

Yes, relatively speaking, but I have never timed it. It doesn't bother me, I like to relax when listening to music, not rush through disc after disc. It's not like "Okay, hand me the next stack, what's that you say, I have another 100 to go? Come on player, speed it up I got things to do". :D :p

Gotta love the chipmucks in 2x ff! Also, a little too slow for me too on start up and tray open. Gotta set the mood a little quicker for the wife. :)

HDMI

Enhanced Black

0 IRE..

I have not applied the Firmware upgrade yet, let me try that tomorrow..

Thx Hugh.. you DaMan!!

:D

Originally posted by J SLAYZ
If I believe Denons promotional text, when playing a CD in the 3910 to a DLink compatible receiver (3805 in my case) it should play very well.
Can anyone that is using the DLink for CD playback please comment.
I have a 3910 on order and would like to check this before paying for it.

Thanks,

J

I was switching between Dlink and optical inputs in the 3805 menu while the 3910 was playing a cd, both work great.

Originally posted by keenan
"Okay, hand me the next stack, what's that you say, I have another 100 to go? Come on player, speed it up I got things to do."
:D:D:D

Jimbo, I like to chill probably more than the next guy and I'm never in a "hurry" to relax and listen to some tunes. I'm not trying to make a big deal out of it, but it is something that irks me about this player.

Daphoid, brutha you know I'm already double-fistin' the barley pops when it's time to fire up the 3910! :D

'Nuff Said...

Jason

Originally posted by JasonColeman
:D:D:D

Jimbo, I like to chill probably more than the next guy and I'm never in a "hurry" to relax and listen to some tunes. I'm not trying to make a big deal out of it, but it is something that irks me about this player.

'Nuff Said...

Jason

I feel ya, what bugs me more is the menu selections when playing a DVD, but it's nothing compared to a bird crapping on my car..:D

Thanks for responding FreeflyKC.
Are you saying that you do not notice a difference between the transmission methods?
I thought DLink was engineered to be jitter free and optical can have jitter.
Would jitter be more noticable at the high or low frequencies???
Comments?

J

Cain,

I started another thread on this topic, but I believe that you would be better off if you tried the NORMAL 7.5 setting. All of the other combinations appear to either clip blacks or compress the levels. (Assuming that you are using a NTSC display.) You can see the other thread for my explanation and evidence.

What i meant by menu speed, for me anyway,( i wasn't as concerned about startup time), was the DVD Video menus. going through special features etc. :)

This is what i find to be nearly at a point of unacceptable compared to 90% of other DVD players i have encountered (and alos considering this is a 'higher' end player).
But as somebody said, hopefully, like with the 5900, Denon will fix this with a patch along with a few other things.

cheers
KJ

Can any owners of the 3910 who use DVI/HDMI help with this question: does the 3910 crop any pixels @ 720p?

On my Marantz VP-12S3 it certainly does. And the amount of cropping varies on the title played :(

Hugh, does the Denon do that (above post) with your Optoma?

Originally posted by Spizz
On my Marantz VP-12S3 it certainly does. And the amount of cropping varies on the title played :(

That is odd. How can the player tell which DVDs it's playing and crop them differently? Do you have Avia or similar test pattern disc that can show image cropping?

I don't know if this is the appropriate area but I have a 2-3 week old Denon 3910 that I have to sell because I cannot afford to keep it right now.

If their is anybody in the Toronto GTA that is interested please P.M me.

My Denon 3910 is feeding a 720p signal thru DVI to a Sammy HLP6163. The 3910 signal out is set to 16:9.

Everything was working fine as far as aspect ratios, until recently. Now widescreen films looked stretched no matter which TV aspect is selected (4:3PS, 4:3LB or 16:9). In fact there's no difference in the picture size with any of these settings.

On my Sammy I can press the Picture Size button to 4:3 instead of wide which eliminates the stretching but then I have black bars on top AND pillar bars on the side.

Any ideas?


Thanks.

Make sure the DLP is set for Video or TV Wide instead of PC Wide when watching through DVI.

Originally posted by J SLAYZ
Thanks for responding FreeflyKC.
Are you saying that you do not notice a difference between the transmission methods?
I thought DLink was engineered to be jitter free and optical can have jitter.
Would jitter be more noticable at the high or low frequencies???
Comments?

J

Hey J.
Well, to be perfectly honest I did not notice any difference between either connection. All I really did was pop a cd in and listen for a few seconds while switching to see if it worked. So no real testing was done on my part.

I've come to understand the same thing about Dlink vs. optical inputs concerning jitter. I'm not really sure if it has anything to do with an audible frequency when jitter occurs or not. I thought it had more to do with clock frequency between units? No clue, sorry.

I went and did it yesterday - got a 3910.

I've got the DVE [NTSC component] DVD disc which played fine in my Sammy931. The 3910 refuses to read it (it reads all my other Video DVD disc, and DVD-Audio and SACD).

Has any one else experienced this problem?

Originally posted by CraigSharrow
I went and did it yesterday - got a 3910.

I've got the DVE [NTSC component] DVD disc which played fine in my Sammy931. The 3910 refuses to read it (it reads all my other Video DVD disc, and DVD-Audio and SACD).

Has any one else experienced this problem? Cue the Twilight Zone music. I bought a 3910 last Wednesday, returned it for a new one that actually works on Saturday (it wouldn't play a large range of DVDs & DVD-As) & bought DVE on Tuesday (which plays perfectly)!

mimason
sounds like you might want to leave it turned on.

Got my 3910 today, and played hooky to play. Folks, this has got to be the best ever, feeding DVI out to Sammy DVI.....and the sound, never heard so much detail from the rears. Feeding coax into the Krell HTS, krell amps and B&W speakers. Have no played with any of the video controls on the 3910 yet, cause rather watch a movie than read their BIG manual. Anything I should do that is simple to change on the 3910 to enhance PQ ??? Awe, but that sound, the Krell HTS is now really kicking some butt.......First Denon ever, but my last till HD DVD.
regards to all you happy folks,
rick

The pic from the 3910 with 1080i to my infocus 5700 gives an unstable vibrating picture. I´m using PAL DVD´s and I noticed in the manu that when using 1080i NTSC should be selected.. why is that? Does this player convert PAL to 60hz with 1080i? If that´s the case, that forces PAL to 60hz at 1080i and it doesn´t support ineterlaced with HDMI... then this player will be no good with 1080p displays... anyone??

We played NIXON on the 3910 last night, and could not get the picture centered. It was a small black screen on the Sammy 507, and all the Denon zoom stuff ran it off the sides. Am I missing something ???? HELPrick

To GRC...

You asked " Anything I should do that is simple to change on the 3910 to enhance PQ ???"

I have a Panny 36" CRT Tau, and the single biggest thing to improve my picture quality was to change the "black level" IRE from 7.5 to 0, to give nice deep blacks and add "punch" to the picture.

Press "Picture Adjust" button on remote (bottom row), cursor over to "SET", and press "down arrow" on remote to change 7.5 (default) to 0. (Of course, I've also tried various combinations of contrast, brightness, and gamma, so I'm using up every one of the 5 memory settings (M1-M5), depending on what I feel looks best for the particular DVD I'm playing.)

I've found all the other defaults on the 3910 to be great.

--ErnieW

Originally posted by keyser
The pic from the 3910 with 1080i to my infocus 5700 gives an unstable vibrating picture. I´m using PAL DVD´s and I noticed in the manu that when using 1080i NTSC should be selected.. why is that? Does this player convert PAL to 60hz with 1080i? If that´s the case, that forces PAL to 60hz at 1080i and it doesn´t support ineterlaced with HDMI... then this player will be no good with 1080p displays... anyone??
Don't have a problem down here. Tried the 2910 with R4 & R1 dvd's and I got the following details from the pj : Component 480i/p @60 and 575i/p @50 / DVI 480p/720p/1080i @60 and 575p/720p/1080i @50 - no conversion from any source and no juddering at any resolution.

ozdvduser,
do you have it set to Auto(not NTSC like the manual recomends for 1080i.. or so I think)?

Another example of why you should always calibrate with the exact device you are using if possible. The 3910 had some image size and position issues that were different than when I plugged my Sencore generator into the DVI input and put test patterns that way. Now I know this is usually the case for Color and Brightness/Contrast settings, but size and overscan?

Yep, it is true, after putting up patterns in DVE, I adjusted the size and position on my Sony GWIII and all is well in the world again. My 1.85:1 movies now have an appropriate amount of black bar showing up on the top and bottom.

To those 3910 owners that are using this unit with a DLP device, do you experience any macroblocking when putting out a 720p signal?

I dont..... I havent seen it at any resolution.

I thought Kris Deering at Secrets said it was slightly present at all resolutions except 720p. It's good to hear that you don't see MB at any resolution.

What is your display and what signal are you feeding it?

Loewe Articos 55 using DVI. I primarily use 720p

Rob, I have not seen any MB either at 720p to my Samsung DLP. I believe Kris posted that at 1080i, he some a little MB (but less than the 1910, Zenith, Samsung, and Yamaha), but saw none at 720p or 480p.

I cannot see any at 480p component.

I believe Plasmas are those more prone to MB if at all.

Why would plasmas be more prone to MB than, say, DLP's?

BTW, I posted this in a couple of other threads, but I thought I would post it here as well:

I am planning to do a "shootout" among a few DVD players. I would like to include the Denon 3910, Pioneer 59avi and Onkyo SP-1000. This will take place in my dedicated HT in Riverside, CA. I will have the Onkyo available, and a tentative plan for the Pioneer, but so far nobody has volunteered to bring their Denon 3910.

So, if you are in SoCal, own a 3910, and would be willing to bring your unit to my HT for this review, please let me know by sending me a PM.

The date and time has yet to be worked out, depending mostly on the schedule of those who will be bringing the respective players.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled Denon 3910 owners thread....

Originally posted by Rob Tomlin
Why would plasmas be more prone to MB than, say, DLP's?

You may want to read the shootout thread re 3910, Kris posted some info there, or was it the 3910 MB thread?

I'm going to pick up the 3910 from the local dealer this week. Based on the input from this thread, I think I should check the player at the dealer before I take it home.

Luckily the local dealer happens to have the same TV as I have.

What are the possible defects to look for? I'll like to compile a list.

thanks and best regards,

KC

You can't check it without calibrating it a bit.
I finally saw macroblocking on a badly setup lcd. I am partially convinced most people with mb issues have calibration or display problems.

I'm having an issue (I'm guessing user-based) getting a DVD audio disk to play. I've gone through both the 3910 and Arcam AVR300 manuals and can not see what I am doing wrong. Here are the specifics:

- 3910 connected via optical to the Arcam (DVD setting on amp)
- 3910 connected via analogue connections to Arcam (DVD-A setting on amp)
- Movies play fine - all seven speakers producing sound (DVD setting)
- Movies play but only to the two front speakers (DVD-A setting)
- DVD-A disks play but only to the two front speakers (DVD / DVD-A settings)

I've run the firmware update to the 3910. When I go to the setup menu, I can not access the audio setting (it's grayed out - not sure if it was that way before the firmware update or not).

I guess it could potentially be the amp as well but wouldn't bet either way.

Any help would be appreciated.

Ryan

Originally posted by 95ForCanada
...When I go to the setup menu, I can not access the audio setting (it's grayed out...

Ryan, under "Digital Interface Setup" (the second tab in the menu) select "HDMI Audio Setup" and select 2CH. Now, look under "Audio Setup" (fourth menu tab) the selections will no longer be grayed out.

Let's do a comparison here:

- 2 hours screwing around with menus: no results
- 5 minute post / 5 minuntes waiting for a reply: problem fixed

Thank you so much - I can't believe it was as simple as that. I wasn't even looking at the HDMI menu item as I didn't see how it would have an impact.

Ryan

Originally posted by 95ForCanada
Let's do a comparison here:

- 2 hours screwing around with menus: no results
- 5 minute post / 5 minuntes waiting for a reply: problem fixed

Thank you so much - I can't believe it was as simple as that. I wasn't even looking at the HDMI menu item as I didn't see how it would have an impact.

Ryan

When I first got mine I had the same issue - this is not very intuitive when you are not even using HDMI. Like you, I didn't see the connection to what I was trying to do, but I stumbled upon it after about a half hour of experimenting with the different menus.

Originally posted by keyser
ozdvduser,
do you have it set to Auto(not NTSC like the manual recomends for 1080i.. or so I think)?
Keyser - it's set to Multi

hi all,,

i have noticed that when concted 3910 via i link,no al-24 denon digital filter working. is it because the conection is via i link? can someone explain it?
i did try to change the set up of i link to OFF,and then i could see the blue light indicated that the al-24 filter is working....what is actually better?
i mostly hear music via i link on straight pcm stereo !!!
thanks for any answer ...

Originally posted by BillP
Badabbing, if you just use the DVD player to watch movies, then I'd go with the 2910. But if you also use it to critically listen to music (redbook CDs as well as SACD/DVD-A), then the 3910 may be worth the extra $$. I spend way more time listening to music than watching movies, and so went with the 3910.

BillP,
Thanks for your feedback on the 3910, I stepped up purchased one from my local vendor in SoCal. Great price and if anyone needs info on where to get a 3910 from and authorized dealer in SoCal I have just the place. All I can say is WOW, I thought my Yammy was agreat unit. This thing blows the Yammy away, and C6480 was no slouch in video and audio. Picture quality is unmatchet and audio is, well better than could ever immagine. I'm not in DVI yet but the component side quite good, I can just immagine what DVI is like with upconversion.

I did have one hiccup a few days ago while playing a DVD-R, halfway through the video it started to have freezing issues and video and audio lockups. I tried other recorded DVD's with the same problems. This unit sits out in the open and stays very cool. I recycled the power, retried the questionable DVD's and it works like a charm. Should I be worried about this or is this Firmware related?

Speaking of Firmware, is there any locations one can download this Firmware upgrade? Calling Denon is like trying to reach the Defense Dpt., good luck.

Again thanks for all the input, it made my choice much easier.

SC

Best bet is to just email Denon with your model number and address. They'll mail it out.

contactservice@denonnj.com

-Bob

Well, I had my first bad experience. I finally put in "Hero" which I've heard alot about, and the 3910 started making an awful "thrumming" sound. Scary.
Took it out and tried a CD and several DVD's - no problem.
I've heard DVD players deal with a bad disk before, but this was rather nervewracking.

Originally posted by Badabbing
BillP,

I did have one hiccup a few days ago while playing a DVD-R, halfway through the video it started to have freezing issues and video and audio lockups. I tried other recorded DVD's with the same problems. This unit sits out in the open and stays very cool. I recycled the power, retried the questionable DVD's and it works like a charm. Should I be worried about this or is this Firmware related?

SC

A followup to the issue above.

After some further testing this unit seems to be extremely sensitive with regards to media and specifically labels on DVD media. I backup quite a bit of my movies to DVD-R because I do like to take movies with me when we travel and I don't like to take the original media for obvious reasons. I also put media labels on my DVD's so they look neat (OK I'm over the top). I have noticed that when I backup movies with relatively low compression the label doesn't seem to have much of an effect on its playability. However, when I backup a movie with high compression like multi episode series DVD's the player starts to freeze up and eventually stops. This doesn't happen on all these types of DVD's but I have removed the labels from the effected DVD's and they seem to play fine. This may have to do with speed of recording in conjunction with the compression, this along with the added weight on the media during playback I believe is why I'm experiencing this freezing problem.
I guess the bottom line is try and stay away from media labels if you can help it.
As a footnote I would like to share that the media used is DVD-R Rytek 4x written at 4x on a NEC-2500a. :D

Originally posted by Badabbing
BillP,

I did have one hiccup a few days ago while playing a DVD-R, halfway through the video it started to have freezing issues and video and audio lockups. I tried other recorded DVD's with the same problems. This unit sits out in the open and stays very cool. I recycled the power, retried the questionable DVD's and it works like a charm. Should I be worried about this or is this Firmware related?

SC

A followup to the issue above.

After some further testing this unit seems to be extremely sensitive with regards to media and specifically labels on DVD media. I backup quite a bit of my movies to DVD-R because I do like to take movies with me when we travel and I don't like to take the original media for obvious reasons. I also put media labels on my DVD's so they look neat (OK I'm over the top). I have noticed that when I backup movies with relatively low compression the label doesn't seem to have much of an effect on its playability. However, when I backup a movie with high compression like multi episode series DVD's the player starts to freeze up and eventually stops. This doesn't happen on all these types of DVD's but I have removed the labels from the effected DVD's and they seem to play fine. This may have to do with speed of recording in conjunction with the compression, this along with the added weight on the media during playback I believe is why I'm experiencing this freezing problem.
I guess the bottom line is try and stay away from media labels if you can help it.
As a footnote I would like to share that the media used is DVD-R Rytek 4x written at 4x on a NEC-2500a. :D

I guess unless you take the 3910 traveling with you as well, it's not an issue (just keep the originals DVDs for home use).

Originally posted by BillP
I guess unless you take the 3910 traveling with you as well, it's not an issue (just keep the originals DVDs for home use).

I hear you Bill, I would never take this unit with me and I guess it does sound kind of lame now that I read my statement back. I make backups for a few reasons, one being traveling another is for my son so he doesn't destroy my originals. Sometimes I play the backups and since this unit is new I thought I would put it through the test. My Yammy played these backups with labels with no problem at all so my previous statement was directed at the sensitivity of this player.
I can see myself now dragging my 3910 from hotel room to hotel room.

LOL :o

Backup. Yeah, that's it, "backup"!

;)

Originally posted by Badabbing

I can see myself now dragging my 3910 from hotel room to hotel room.

LOL :o

You kidding? You make a big 'ole hole in the dash and play that puppy in the car..:D :p

Originally posted by keenan
You kidding? You make a big 'ole hole in the dash and play that puppy in the car..:D :p

No way dude, my Dodge van days are over.
:D

Originally posted by Badabbing
A followup to the issue above.
<snip>


I make videos of local community theater and sell them to the cast. I also have 2 youngsters who are hard on DVD's. After my 4th purchase of Spykids I got smart and started backing them up. Plus it removes the menus that are problematic for little ones anyway. Now they work like VHS tapes. Stick it in and it plays. I found the same symptoms you describe on a variety of players. Especially marginal discs with labels. Thought it was labels at one point. To make a long expensive story short, use TaiyoYuden (sp?) discs (www.rima.com for good pricing) and your backup problems will go away. FYI, I burn with the same NEC burner. I also have a Plextor 708A (not in use now) and a LiteOn I bought just so I could use the error checking program avail to use with it. Always burn with NEC, always read with Liteon. Never had a bad disc, never had a lockup since.

Cheers,
Scott

OK I decided to try NORMAL black, and 0 IRE..

That looks much better to me....

Any rumors of a new Firmware update ??

-- Cain

My Denon 3910 sounded bright on redbook CDs. I bought a Theta Digital DAC to make the CDs playback more neutral, less bright. It is disappointing that a $1k machine needs another DAC to make Cd playback sound good. Is 3910's SACD and DVD-Audio playback chip set better than the 2910's?

howardarbutus

I take it you are using the analogue out on the 3910?
Do you mean 'accurate' this can sometimes explain a slightly brighter sound?
A more neutral sound is sometimes 'softened' the upper freqs.
Softening usually means the highs are not defined clearly and therefore a little muddied and less volume.
Slighly less response of the source in those frequencies can also give a neutral sound and when you change to a unit that has different frequency response it sounds brighter.

When feeding digital to my old yamaha 620 it suffered from this but my 3805 does not.

J

Originally posted by howardarbutus
My Denon 3910 sounded bright on redbook CDs. I bought a Theta Digital DAC to make the CDs playback more neutral, less bright. It is disappointing that a $1k machine needs another DAC to make Cd playback sound good. [B]

This does not surprise me if you have very reveiling speakers. Red Book on the 3910 is pretty good but not spectacular. There is another universal(SP1000) with great Red Book playback, but it'll cost you $500-600 more.


Is 3910's SACD and DVD-Audio playback chip set better than the 2910's? [/QUOTE]

Yep, big time.

OK, for everyone's reference (and mine in a few months when I start fiddling again) Kris Deering told me in the other thread that NORMAL Blacklevel and 0 IRE should be the correct settings for my 3910.

I guess this assumes that your projector/TV can handle blacker than black.

This combination looks the best for me.

Now to decide which output for HDMI looks the best, color wise, greyscale and resolution wise.

-- Cain

Ps I have a Sim2 HT30-Link Projector. 720P DLP.

Enhanced black on the Sammy 507 looks better to me. It may not be "correct", but I really only care about what looks the best on my monitor and to my eyes.
rick

I really only care about what looks the best on my monitor and to my eyes.

That is the most important thing !!

-- Cain

FYI 3910 owners:

Kris just said in a different thread, that Enhanced/Normal works on HDMI/DVI, while the 0/7.5 IRE works on component.


Also, I'm seeing that the 2910 guys have had more than one Firmware update.

Has there been more than one firmware update for the 3910 ??

-- Cain

I've had a 3910 for a couple of weeks now and have mainly been concerned with audio (SACD & DVD-A) with analog 5.1 output.

Recently I've adjusted the video with Avia and after getting what I thought was a pretty accurate display found the black levels to be a bit high (greys instead of blacks). There didn't appear to be a way to adjust the level down on some adjustments (allowing only '+' adjustment). As a consequence, I've adjusted my Sony 51HW40 down to compensate. Unfortunately, this makes it a bit dark when using my Panasonic CP-72 as a source...

Where is the 0 / 7.5 IRE adjustment for component output??? I'm wondering if that will improve the blacks while allowing me to bump my TV back up to a decent level for CP-72 input...??? (Since I listen to more music than movies, I keep the CP-72 full of DTS concert DVD's and use the 3910 for SACD / DVD-A and movies).

I'm very happy with my 3910!!!

Thanks!

Apparently there was a new firmware release in the last week here in Australia that gets rid of the horrid PAL chroma bug??? (not chroma upsampling but chroma delay)

The latest firmware I believe is -6. A Denon tech burned me a copy and mailed it to me last week. I have problems with the DVI connection to my projector. It will not sync.

Porshah has this firmware upgrade solved the sync problem?

M

So aparently there is a new Firmware update for the 3910 ?? I'll e-mail them, and let you know.

I wonder what this one fixes ??

Originally posted by porshah
The latest firmware I believe is -6. A Denon tech burned me a copy and mailed it to me last week. I have problems with the DVI connection to my projector. It will not sync.
Thanks for this info. I asked Denon over the weekend how to check the firmware version of the 3910 and they sent me these instructions:

-----
To confirm the software version on the DVD3910:
1. Turn the small power button off on the front of the unit.
2. Hold down the PLAY and OPEN/CLOSE buttons on the front of the unit, both at the same time.
3. Turn the power back on and continue holding the buttons for 3 seconds, then let go.
4. After ">II LOADING" shows on the display, press the 3,2,6,5 buttons on the remote (in that order) and then press the MENU button to see the version.
----

Is this how people are checking the current firmware? When I get home from work I'll try it out.

Originally posted by porshah
The latest firmware I believe is -6. A Denon tech burned me a copy and mailed it to me last week. I have problems with the DVI connection to my projector. It will not sync.

Would that be a multiregion firmware?

Hi Guys,

I just wanted to throw this in here since I'm new to this thread. I'm in the market for a 2910 or 3910. What are the major differences of the two? I have a fujistsu p50 and wanted the access of HDMI on the player. Looked into the older version either the 2900 or 2200 as well which is $600 cheaper than the new ones. Any suggestions or recommendation would be appreciated. Thanks for your time.

Richie

Oh, since I've read a few threads that they are experiencing some problems. I'm still not sure so help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Originally posted by mark antony
Porshah has this firmware upgrade solved the sync problem?

M

I too was having a sync problem and the -6 so far has cured it.

2910 does not have IEEE 1394

Anyone know what else -6 fixed, that was not fixed by -5 ??

Thx!!

-- Cain

Originally posted by Cain
Anyone know what else -6 fixed, that was not fixed by -5 ??

Thx!!

-- Cain

As far as I remember from the sheets that came with my -6 firmware (caveat: I'm going from memory because I'm not at home), there were two major updates beyond -5:

(1) DVD-A menus over DVI now work properly (they didn't always appear over DVI before)

(2) HDMI 1.1 Support


--C

Originally posted by MusicmanSeattle
As far as I remember from the sheets that came with my -6 firmware (caveat: I'm going from memory because I'm not at home), there were two major updates beyond -5:

(1) DVD-A menus over DVI now work properly (they didn't always appear over DVI before)

(2) HDMI 1.1 Support


--C

What is HDMI 1.1 support? I dont suppose that would allow 480i over HDMI?

John

Originally posted by Expletive
What is HDMI 1.1 support? I dont suppose that would allow 480i over HDMI?

John

I think it allows multi-channel HiRez SACD, or, that might be HDMI 1.2, can't remember...the numbering conventions that get used for these upgrades can get confusing..

Still cant get any mode other then 720p to show up on my ae500 ?

Got some really novice dvi questions..On my ae500 pj on dvi, my color and tint adjustments are now grayed out..I guess you cant adjust these when using a dvi connection on the ae500 ? So how do I adjust color since

I cant seem to find any color adjustments on the 3910 either...?

Is everybody who is using a dvi connection,making all of their adjustments via the player or their pj/tv ? are maybe a combo of both..

When calibrating with avia, do you use the brightness,contrast, sharpness and hue on the 3910 ?

So, Johny, how did you decide on the Denon?

So, Johny, how did you decide on the Denon?

Local dealer gave me a killer deal..so with the sp1000 having lip sync problems..and the 59avi being I guess about "equal " to the 3910..I figured if I did have any problems with the 3910 I could return it.
The 3910 also has TA and BM for sacd and Im an "audio" guy anyway.

But Im having problems as stated above..I just dont why for the life of me I can only get 720p to show up on my projector.

After a fast calibration and no time on the 3910 ..to be honest I aint seeing nothing that jumps out at me as better then the zenith dvb318 on the video side

Plus at least with the upscaling via component with the zenith I had color and tint adjustments available on the Panny ae500 pj ...I guess there diasbled on the dvi out of the panny ?
And I dont see any color adjustments on the 3910 ..Im just wondering how people are adjusting things via dvi.

But Im having problems as stated above..I just dont why for the life of me I can only get 720p to show up on my projector.

Ok, I figured it out..My panny ae500 was set for (edid 2) and in that mode it displayed 720p ..it showed it as "720pwide"
When I switched to (edid 1) it now shows 720p on my display as "750p" ..Dont really understand whats going on there..
It shows 1080i as "hdtv60" just like my samsung hd box bia component does.


After a fast calibration and no time on the 3910 ..to be honest I aint seeing nothing that jumps out at me as better then the zenith dvb318 on the video side

Let me take that back..after switching to "edid 1" on my pj , the 3910 seems like it has a better picture..now Ive gotta recalibrate and try again.

Still need to know how folks calibrate color and tint via dvi ? if all pjs are like mine and dont give these as adjustable options when dvi is enabled .

Not all pj's are like that to be sure.

I can definitely adjust color, tint etc on my Dwin's DVI inputs.

Good choice psujohny, I had a 3910 and was marginally happy with it. Until I noticed Y/C delay, noise, and Chroma with MB in darker scenes. And I was still happy with it when compared to my 5900, but of course that ended as soon as I tested the SP1000...

Until I noticed Y/C delay, noise, and Chroma with MB in darker scenes. And I was still happy with it when compared to my 5900, but of course that ended as soon as I tested the SP1000...

I dont doubt that the sp1000 is better on the video side the question for me since Im not a videohead..is it splitting hairs better or wow better..my guess to me it would be splitting hairs better..But Im really picky on audio, As far as the video side goes...I calibrate the display and then sit back and look at it and say "yea it looks great, its clear, sharp, colors are good" or "its fuzzy,colors arent good etc.) in other words I guess Im not to suseptible to y/c delay, noise, mb ...are maybe I am and just dont know it

They say ignorance is bliss :)

joerodcowboys, did you get the firmware upgrade from Denon (it fixes the Y/C delay)? I installed the firmware the very first time I turned on the player, and only see one fantastic PQ. I think I'm more like psujohny - very fussy for audio, but just sit back and enjoy for video.

I've booked my 3910 in with Denon UK to have the firmware update that solves the sync problem with my MT8, will let you know if it works!

M

Originally posted by psujohny
I dont doubt that the sp1000 is better on the video side the question for me since Im not a videohead..is it splitting hairs better or wow better..my guess to me it would be splitting hairs better..But Im really picky on audio, As far as the video side goes...I calibrate the display and then sit back and look at it and say "yea it looks great, its clear, sharp, colors are good" or "its fuzzy,colors arent good etc.) in other words I guess Im not to suseptible to y/c delay, noise, mb ...are maybe I am and just dont know it

They say ignorance is bliss :)

Although I did not do a side by side comparison of the 3910 and the Integra 10.5, the 3910 had better PQ performance than the 10.5.

I agree the 2910 have slight y/c error at 720p and a little more at 1080i, but I saw no MB at all, or any other chroma issues on either player.

The Integra 10.5 displayed a form of video noise, which we could not dial out of the picture, except for increasing the DNR from OFF to (3), which then adversely effected the PQ of the overall image. Some other folks have also seen some various video noise problems with the SP1000, but many do not.

Based on my own evaluation of both players, I would pick the 3910 over the SP1000/10.5 until the noise issues I saw are resolved.

For what it's worth, the new Sound & Vision magazine which I just received today has a very favorable review on the 3910. I don't have it in front of me but the author said it was the best player he's ever reviewed.

One point he made that I think is incorrect - when using one of the digital connections like Denon Link he said that this disables the analog outputs. I am using Denon Link for DVD-A and 5.1 analog/Ext-In for SACD, seemingly without any problems. For DVD-A I am able to switch back and forth between the two, and on my system the digital connection (with speaker and room eq) sounds better.

Those of you who have received and installed the -6 Firmware.

What does the instruction sheet say that it fixes ??

-- Cain

Sound & Vision did do a nice review of the 3910. I agree with most of the reviewers perception of the unit. As for Byte, I have never seen any amount of noise (that wasn't already on the dvd) with the Sp1000. Remember, you can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****...

Just read the S&V review myself. High marks to be sure. I just wish that they gave Mr. Ranada more space to do these reviews. It doesn't come close to the in depth type of review that you would see in a publication like Widescreen Review.

The 3910 gets very high marks for its overall adjustability, especially on the hi res audio formats with great BM and TM adjustments. He also spoke highly of the overall sound quality. In the end, he calls it his favorite universal DVD player.

I certainly enjoyed the very short review, but JBaumgart is correct about the error. I feel good about spending all that money, in the end. Not that I didn't already.

Where can I get or order the upgraded firmware for the 3910? Would this make it region free? I'm kinda new to this and would appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.

Richie

Originally posted by 55 AMG
Where can I get or order the upgraded firmware for the 3910? Would this make it region free? I'm kinda new to this and would appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.

You can download the region free firmware from here: http://mapage.noos.fr/gbogros/d31zsavd.zip

I just got my Ram electronics dvi cable ..I had been using a cheapo cable to tide me over.
I gotta tell ya, the picture is soo much better now ..I wouldnt have thought cables would have made that much of a difference

The 3910 is now visible better then the zenith dvb318 I had.


A couple of things, my unit seems to default to the enhanced black mode every time I power it back up ? (note, even though the menu still says normal I know that its not ..because when I hit the normal button again , I can tell the picture switches form enhanced to normal black levels).

If this is the case..I dont wanna go through the hassle of hitting the normal black setting every time I turn on the player so if it cant be fixed I will just calibrate the unit at "enhanced and 7.5ire and call it good I guess

On the sound setup
I have my two channel outs of the 3910 hooked up to a stereo only preamp and the mulit channel outs of the 3910 hooked up to a HT reciever. In case anybody wanted to know, they are both active..I can switch back and forth from my two channel stereo pre to my ht multis...
Has anybody actually compared the quality of the two channel outs versues the L/R out of the multi's .and if so are the two channel outs better ? I would assume they are

A couple of things, my unit seems to default to the enhanced black mode every time I power it back up ? (note, even though the menu still says normal I know that its not ..because when I hit the normal button again , I can tell the picture switches form enhanced to normal black levels).

I´ve had this same problem, but I haven´t looked enough into it.

Originally posted by psujohny
Has anybody actually compared the quality of the two channel outs versues the L/R out of the multi's .and if so are the two channel outs better ? I would assume they are

I was wondering the same thing when I had the 3910. I really didn't do any ABing since the RCA's were higher quality on the 2 channel outs and assumed they were better.

So whadda ya think about 2 channel on this one? Is it worth the tradoff to get proper BM and TA.

Regards.

So whadda ya think about 2 channel on this one? Is it worth the tradoff to get proper BM and TA.

Mimason,
In my current configuration I can have them both..Its kind of confusing but my hookup as of right now is:
5 multi channel outs from the 3910 goes directly into my Pioneer HT reciever.
Now what I have is the main L/R OUT of the Pioneer going into a seperate two channel analog pre-amp. The stereo analog preamp is a citation 7.O which actually has an all analog crossover option in it. So for HT and Mulitchannel sacd I have my front l/r set to large and send a full signal to the citation stereo pre to do the crossover and the citation in turn sends out the signal to the l/r and sub. I can still get TA like this too and use crossovers of the 3910 (or pioneer) for the other speakers if and when I choose.
I calibrate the stereo pre of course to the proper level to match all the other speakers in my ht setup..

Now for my critical listening, I dont want the signal going threw the Pioneer at all as my analog stage in my citation is muuuch better.
I hook up the two channel outs directly from the 3910 to another input on the citation and use this for my critical two channel stuff...I can still use the citation for BM in two channel or I can disable it.

As of last night I had just got the video tweeked and did all the hookups above anf just had time to verify that everything was hooked up and working properly.

So, the good thing (when I get time) is that the citation has adjustable voltage regulators for every input ! so what I will do is adjust the voume via voltage adjustement to be the exact same coming form the two channel out of the denon directly to the citation and then also the l/r input of the mulit channel outs of the denon going threw the mulit inputs of the pioneer to the denon.
This way I should be able to get a handle of what the differences are between the 3910 two channel outs and the l/r of the mulit outs ..( the only thing that may effect it is that the l/r multi outs have to go threw the mulit ins of the Pioneer * hopefully its fairly transparent anyway,

Can anyone please direct me a download page where I can download the Y/C Delay firmware fix? Or alternatively can any kind-hearted soul send the extracted cfw file to my email address at: desray@starhub.net.sg

Appreciated.

Just as a note..I just bought the 3910 two days ago form my local authorized dealer who swore up and down that he had just got it a week earlier from Denon.
My software version 6609 ?? not even a dash 1 ..man, I wonder how I got the oldest original version
Does the latest firmware fix the normal/enhanced setting being lost when unit is powered off/on ?
Bytehoven was kind enough to email a copy ..but I cant seem to even get it to open up..
so I just called denon and got ahold of a real live person this time ..wow. Anway he said he'd mail it out to me today ..
Deray2k ..You may wanna call now while they are there and answering the phone :)

Originally posted by mimason
I was wondering the same thing when I had the 3910. I really didn't do any ABing since the RCA's were higher quality on the 2 channel outs and assumed they were better.

So whadda ya think about 2 channel on this one? Is it worth the tradoff to get proper BM and TA.

Regards. Mine sounds identical using the 2ch or 6ch inputs. I am using a Yamaha DSP A-1. My question is: I can find the setting for 0 ire vs. 7.5 (in the Picture Adjust menu), but I don't know where the enhanced black vs. the normal seting is. Can anyone tell me?

Mine sounds identical using the 2ch or 6ch inputs. I am using a Yamaha DSP A-1. My question is: I can find the setting for 0 ire vs. 7.5 (in the Picture Adjust menu), but I don't know where the enhanced black vs. the normal seting is. Can anyone tell me?

That may have something to do with the dsp a-1 's bypass not being transparent enough ..Just a guess

Hit setup on the bottom hand left corner of the remote..move to the second screen under hdmi setup I believe ..its right there, options are normal or enhanced

That may have something to do with the dsp a-1 's bypass not being transparent enough ..Just a guess
I think it may be the opposite reason, as the A1 has the same bass management thru the analog bypass & the regular 2ch inputs. Everything else also sounds the same thru the 2 diff inputs (my prior DVD-A player, my SACD changer, etc.).
Hit setup on the bottom hand left corner of the remote..move to the second screen under hdmi setup I believe ..its right there, options are normal or enhanced I don't use HDMI. Does it apply to component also?

I don't use HDMI. Does it apply to component also?

I dont use hdmi either..but I can tell you it applies to dvi to (which Im using)..not sure about components though

Originally posted by Larry Geller
Mine sounds identical using the 2ch or 6ch inputs. I am using a Yamaha DSP A-1. My question is: I can find the setting for 0 ire vs. 7.5 (in the Picture Adjust menu), but I don't know where the enhanced black vs. the normal seting is. Can anyone tell me?

Yes, under the ACTION menu... HDMI/DVI Black Level

How many of us are using HDMI-HDMI ??

This thing definitely has a VERY STRONG green cast when using HDMI-HDMI. The 2910 folks are reporting the same thing, and it seems as if there are more HDMI users with that player.

Anyone here have the -6 Firmware update ??

--- Cain

What does the -6 firmware fix?

Does the -6 firmware fix the green push?

Originally posted by Cain
How many of us are using HDMI-HDMI ??

This thing definitely has a VERY STRONG green cast when using HDMI-HDMI. The 2910 folks are reporting the same thing,....

Im in the biz and have had the 3910 hooked up to many (8+) different HDMI displays. Never noticed a VERY STRONG green cast

Man, HDCD is for real...Listened to a couple tonight and was astonished how good they sounded (some were sacd like in nature)..Toby Keith's shock-n-yall sounded incredible.
Has anybody else had the same experience with hdcd ?

"Very green" sounds like bad calibration. I have HDMI-HDMI and just the slightest amount of green in my blacks with a panny ae700 with certain (kbk) settings. When I use my own settings there is no slight green "push" that I notice. I'm still futzing with it, and don't suspect there will be any in the end. It takes a bit of work.

I consistently find that HDCD-encoded CDs sound so much better than regular redbook CDs. I have a few examples where I have the same song both ways for an A/B comaprison (a newly remastered but non-HDCD greatest hits overlapping some songs with an HDCD-encoded CD of the original album). I wish all CDs were encoded.

I consistently find that HDCD-encoded CDs sound so much better than regular redbook CDs. I have a few examples where I have the same song both ways for an A/B comaprison (a newly remastered but non-HDCD greatest hits overlapping some songs with an HDCD-encoded CD of the original album). I wish all CDs were encoded.

Im going out tommorow and am gonna pick up some more hdcd's !
I wonder is there a list somewhere of all the available titles out on HDCD ?

Originally posted by psujohny
I wonder is there a list somewhere of all the available titles out on HDCD ?
http://www.hdcd.com/music_catalog/welcome.asp

Yeah, I love 'em, too!

Jason

Im in the biz and have had the 3910 hooked up to many (8+) different HDMI displays. Never noticed a VERY STRONG green cast

Hi Tom,

I'm beginning to see this seems to be a display specific issue.

What displays did you see no problems with, and what color temperature were they using??

Thanks!!

-- Cain

Originally posted by Bytehoven
Yes, under the ACTION menu... HDMI/DVI Black Level Tried it last night. NO difference thru component input. Still doesn't pass blacker than black (third bar on PLUGE pattern is not visible).

Larry,
What doesn't pass blacker than black? Component? DVI? HDMI?

Dave

Originally posted by Dave Vaughn
Larry,
What doesn't pass blacker than black? Component? DVI? HDMI?

Dave I am only connected via component.

Originally posted by Cain
Hi Tom,

I'm beginning to see this seems to be a display specific issue.

What displays did you see no problems with, and what color temperature were they using??

Thanks!!

-- Cain

Let's see, PIOPRO910HDI, PANTH50PX25U, PIOPRO1120HD, PANTH50XVS30U, MITWS62825, MITPD6130, PIOPRO1010HD, SHALC45GX6U, MITLT3050, MITWL82913, SHAXVZ12000 and I'm pretty sure I had it ran through a EPSCINE200PLUS LCP projector but I'm not positive on that. This only applies to the "VERY STRONG green cast". But I haven't noticed it in my shop or at a customers home.

The 3910 is my current "go to" dvd player (PIODVD59AVI is on allocation) but you would be surprised by how many customers splash down $6000-$8000 for a display device and hook it up to a $300 Sony Dream Machine. LMAO!

"To confirm the software version on the DVD3910:
1. Turn the small power button off on the front of the unit.
2. Hold down the PLAY and OPEN/CLOSE buttons on the front of the unit, both at the same time.
3. Turn the power back on and continue holding the buttons for 3 seconds, then let go.
4. After ">II LOADING" shows on the display, press the 3,2,6,5 buttons on the remote (in that order) and then press the MENU button to see the version."

I've tried this and it doesn't work on my August build 3910...

Holding down Play and Open/Close, and pressing the little power button on, simply turns the Standby button to red, but nothing lights on the display. When you take your fingers off of the Play and O/C buttons, the unit turns on and the tray opens for normal operation. That's it.

--Ernie

Originally posted by ErnieW
"To confirm the software version on the DVD3910:
1. Turn the small power button off on the front of the unit.
2. Hold down the PLAY and OPEN/CLOSE buttons on the front of the unit, both at the same time.
3. Turn the power back on and continue holding the buttons for 3 seconds, then let go.
4. After ">II LOADING" shows on the display, press the 3,2,6,5 buttons on the remote (in that order) and then press the MENU button to see the version."

I've tried this and it doesn't work on my August build 3910...

Holding down Play and Open/Close, and pressing the little power button on, simply turns the Standby button to red, but nothing lights on the display. When you take your fingers off of the Play and O/C buttons, the unit turns on and the tray opens for normal operation. That's it.
--Ernie Try it a few more times. I tried to do it on MY 8/03 bought 3910 & it took 3 tries until it worked. You have to hit it just right. Mine was already updated with the latest version.

Any word on whether Denon plans to implement 480i out via the HDMI port?

Just figured i would ask...

John

Originally posted by Expletive
Any word on whether Denon plans to implement 480i out via the HDMI port?

Just figured i would ask...

John

Here is some info I got from Denon...

I would like to tell you we could, we can technically, but legally we are
unable. This is same as us doing SDI mod at factory, DVD Forum rules say we
are not permitted to output 480i digitally - blame it on Hollywood.


I'm just echoing what I was told, I don't have any more info other than this.

Thx Tom,

How many of those are DLP projectors ?? It seems that is where the problems lie.

-- Cain

Originally posted by Steve Richards
Here is some info I got from Denon...

I would like to tell you we could, we can technically, but legally we are
unable. This is same as us doing SDI mod at factory, DVD Forum rules say we
are not permitted to output 480i digitally - blame it on Hollywood.


I'm just echoing what I was told, I don't have any more info other than this.

Thanks for the info. Odd that they cant do it yet Pioneer, Arcam, and Meridian can. It almost sounds like he didnt understand the question. I dont understand the harm in outputting the worst possible signal digitally... :)

John

Originally posted by Expletive
Thanks for the info. Odd that they cant do it yet Pioneer, Arcam, and Meridian can. It almost sounds like he didnt understand the question.

John

I agree, how does the Pio unit do it then?


I dont understand the harm in outputting the worst possible signal digitally...


Actually, I think it is the best signal if you intend to use outboard scaling and processing, it's the native DVD format..

This is same as us doing SDI mod at factory

I don't think they are the same, since the HDMI output has HDCP applied to it. On the other hand, maybe the HDCP only happens for the 480p, 720p, and 1080i formats? For sure SDI has no copy protection applied to it.

These are the steps straight from Denon and I can't get it to work either.
I will try a few more times :)

they are sending out a firmware disc today...

To confirm the software version on the DVD3910:

1. Turn the small power button off on the front of the unit.

2. Hold down the PLAY and OPEN/CLOSE buttons on the front of the unit, both at the same time.

3. Turn the power back on and continue holding the buttons for 3 seconds, then let go.

4. After “>II LOADING” shows on the display, press the 3,2,6,5 buttons on the remote (in that order) and then press the MENU button to see the version.

Originally posted by keenan
Actually, I think it is the best signal if you intend to use outboard scaling and processing, it's the native DVD format..

Yeah i agree i was just kidding...

John

What the heck do they mean, if Pio and Arcam can do it.. so can they. I even think Kris Deering has asked them about why they haven´t included this feature. I think it´s lame that they didn´t include it, would probably be the best option for 1080p displays with good processing.

Originally posted by Expletive
Yeah i agree i was just kidding...

John

:)

My 3910 has the green push thru dvi only,sdi looks great as does component, I haven't tried hdmi. So it is not just a display issue!

I think this may be display dependent...here is why. On my Hitachi through DVI, there is no green push. When I brought it to my neighbors house with his Mitsubishi, there was a slight green push through DVI in comparison to my TV.

Dave

Looking to decide whether to use DVI or component with an NEC HT1000 and the 3910. I'm using my only DVI with my HD receiver right now. Has anybody done a direct comparison of the DVI vs. component? I'd have to do tooo many switches to do the comparison. My NEC has a very good scaler so I send 490p from component right now.

I could always buy a DVI switcher if the picture is a fair amount better. Thanks in advance for your help!!

Scott

With my Hitachi RPTV, I actually prefer the 480P output. With the 1080i upconversion, I see too much background noise through DVI and the DVI port on my TV raises the blue level to about 7300K when trying to calibrate in the middle IREs. With a 480P output, the middle IRE's are just under 7000K. I measure this using Milor Colorfacts.

Dave

Originally posted by scottyb
Looking to decide whether to use DVI or component with an NEC HT1000 and the 3910. I'm using my only DVI with my HD receiver right now. Has anybody done a direct comparison of the DVI vs. component?

Scott

Scott, follow this thread to some pics of the 2910 on the HT1000. Let me know if you have any questions.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=469368

Thanks Byte!!! Anybody know where to get a good DVI switcher??

Scott

Am I missing something? How can the most adjustable DVD player (I know of) be labeled as having "green push"? Am I missing something here? Does anyone adjust this thing when connecting to a new display?
As far as sdi goes, I don't think a lot of these old school, conservative companies mess with certain things. So far, they have had great tech support for me. I have not had issues but getting questions answered and a firmware update have been as easy as sending a couple of emails. 5 stars for me so far.

Originally posted by steviec
My 3910 has the green push thru dvi only,sdi looks great as does component, I haven't tried hdmi. So it is not just a display issue!

Mine has no color anomolies via component either. This was verified by my ISF calibrator. In fact, the color levels were very close to my Pansonic XP50 which the 3910 replaced.

finally got the 3910 to display the firmware

ESS 6609-2 built August 2004

i am assuming that is pretty old? isnt the latest -6?

if i upgrade to -6 am i going to have any issues using dvi to my benq pe8700+, or sacd/dvd-a using firewire to my elite vsx-59txi?

thanks!

cmorreale....care to disclose what are the steps to execute on a remote or the DVD Player to see the Firmware version>? Many thanks!

And I am looking everywhere for the Y/C Delay firmware fix...can anyone email me the firmware or kindly point to me where to get the this particular firmware in the internet?

Okay just saw the previous post by you...sorrie. I got it now. thanks!

Isn't there a problem with all of these upconverting DVD players in that they choose the high resolution decoding matrix for color when sending an HDMI/DVI 720p or 1080i signal, when they should in fact specify the standard resolution matrix since that's the way the DVD data was encoded (unless the DVD player transcodes the data to match the high resolution matrix, which none of them do). My understanding is when a player does this, there will be a significant green shift to the color of the image.

It's also my understanding that when outputting a 480p/i signal via HDMI or DVI, these digital DVD players specify the correct, standard resolution color matrix, so the incorrect green shift of colors only occurs when any of these DVD players outputs a DVI or HDMI signal at 720p or 1080i. Some display devices I think allow you to override the DVD selection and manually select the correct decoding matrix, thereby avoiding the problem for displays that allow this.

So my understanding is unless you use component, or 480p/i digital you will not get correct color decoding using any of the upconverting HDMI/DVI DVD players.

send an email to contactservice@denonnj.com for the latest firmware

To confirm the software version on the DVD3910:
1.Turn the small power button off on the front of the unit.
2.Hold down the PLAY and OPEN/CLOSE buttons on the front of the unit, both at the same time.
3.Turn the power back on and continue holding the buttons for 3 seconds, then let go.
4.After “>II LOADING” shows on the display, press the 3,2,6,5 buttons on the remote (in that order) and then press the MENU button to see the version.

Hi, cmorreale, I'm based in Singapore (Asia Pacific region)...do you think DENON (US) will entertain my request? Anyway, I have sent an email to the abovemntioned email address for a request of the latest firmware. Thanks...

Originally posted by Sam Scamardo
Mine has no color anomolies via component either. This was verified by my ISF calibrator. In fact, the color levels were very close to my Pansonic XP50 which the 3910 replaced.

I have my 3910 connected to a Panasonic plasma using component and it for sure has a strong green push (most irritating are the green blocks "dancing" in light areas on the screen).

I had to up the "hue" level on the 3910 to +1 and after this I had to adjust "color", "brightness" and "contrast" again om my plasma as the increase in hue on the 3910 made these settings off balance.

It now looks way better but there's still some green push in some scenes. Star Trek: The Next Generation, for example, shows this problem very well.

My previous player, 2800 MK-2, hadn't this issue at all so it looks like something is not quite right with 3910...


Edwin

Yep, I have a bad green push with mine using HDMI, and so do many, many others.

I'm starting to think it is a combination between certain monitors and certain firmware versions on the 3910.

They are supposed to be sending me the newest firmware, -6. When I get it and install it I'll report back here.

-- Cain

Originally posted by uzun
Isn't there a problem with all of these upconverting DVD players in that they choose the high resolution decoding matrix for color when sending an HDMI/DVI 720p or 1080i signal, when they should in fact specify the standard resolution matrix since that's the way the DVD data was encoded (unless the DVD player transcodes the data to match the high resolution matrix, which none of them do). My understanding is when a player does this, there will be a significant green shift to the color of the image.

It's also my understanding that when outputting a 480p/i signal via HDMI or DVI, these digital DVD players specify the correct, standard resolution color matrix, so the incorrect green shift of colors only occurs when any of these DVD players outputs a DVI or HDMI signal at 720p or 1080i. Some display devices I think allow you to override the DVD selection and manually select the correct decoding matrix, thereby avoiding the problem for displays that allow this.

So my understanding is unless you use component, or 480p/i digital you will not get correct color decoding using any of the upconverting HDMI/DVI DVD players.

uzun,

I think you may be on to something there!! However, my 3910 still has the same green push with 480p, and HDMI, but no green push with component.

-- Cain

Originally posted by Cain
Yep, I have a bad green push with mine using HDMI, and so do many, many others.

I'm starting to think it is a combination between certain monitors and certain firmware versions on the 3910.

They are supposed to be sending me the newest firmware, -6. When I get it and install it I'll report back here.

-- Cain


FYI, I have version 6 of the firmware. It does not solve the green push issue.

FYI, I have version 6 of the firmware. It does not solve the green push issue.

RATS !!!

What does it fix !!

-- Cain

I noticed that the soundtrack from "the thin red line" is HDCD and I have the CD. I´m gonna listen to it this evening.
I have my 3910 hooked up to the 3805 only with Denon Link, am I going to run into any problems?
How will I know if it´s decoding the HDCD, is there a HDCD display that will light up?

I think the manual states that the sub doesn´t work for 2ch listening with Denon link? Do I have to also connect a digital coax cable or listen to it in other modes(I really like 7ch stereo) for the sub to work?

Originally posted by keyser
I noticed that the soundtrack from "the thin red line" is HDCD and I have the CD. I´m gonna listen to it this evening.
I have my 3910 hooked up to the 3805 only with Denon Link, am I going to run into any problems?
How will I know if it´s decoding the HDCD, is there a HDCD display that will light up? There is a little HDCD logo on the display that lights up & the blue light that indicates that the ALS 24 processing is on goes out, to show that the HDCD decoder has taken over.

Originally posted by EdwinB
FYI, I have version 6 of the firmware. It does not solve the green push issue.

Hi Edwin. Care to share the -6 firmware??? I'm also located in NL. I know that Barendh is also on the lookout for -6. Is it multi-region?
Thanx in advance.

Re: the latest 3910 firmware (-6), DVI still doesnt sync to a Toshiba MT 8 :-(

M

If the 3910 has green push using HDMI/DVI regardless of resolution, and no green push using component I would suggest the 3910 uses the high resolution color matrix for digital DVD data regardless of the resolution.

Anyone who has a display device that lets them override the color matrix for DVI/HDMI signals, try forcing it to the standard matrix, I bet that fixes the problem.

Originally posted by uzun
Anyone who has a display device that lets them override the color matrix for DVI/HDMI signals, try forcing it to the standard matrix, I bet that fixes the problem.

While the HT1000 DLP projector does not allow for a matrix change on the DVI input, it does on the analog input. When I switched the HT1000 from SD to HD color matrix, there did not seem to enough of a red shift to account for the green shift in a reverse scenario. I came to the conclusion, perhaos in error, the green push is something entirely different then just improper SD/HD color matrix management.

I think you would have to apply the force to SD color matrix on the digital signal itself to conclude that it isn't the problem. Applying it to a correct signal and guestimating probably isn't a good way to analyze the problem.

Originally posted by scottyb
Thanks Byte!!! Anybody know where to get a good DVI switcher??

Scott


Scott,

I have a DTronics 2x DVI switch that I've been using for
over a month.

I've been please with it with no issues.

/George

Okay folks; Excuse the next few posts as I want to get to the magic # of 5...

...in order to...

...post an important url for 3910 owners...