Okay now, I don't think this has been posted yet so here goes:
For all you 3910 owners out there, you can now download the latest firmware directly from Denon's website. Here is the direct link to that page:

Denon Firmware Upgrade (http://www.usa.denon.com/support/regtest.asp)

If you decide to visit their homepage instead, simply click on the Product Upgrade icon which is just to the right of the Denon DJ icon.
Have fun, but be careful out there. :D

I cant get the $#%^&^%U burned cd to work..

I have nero and set it to IS09660 only ..burn rate slowest at 4x600kb ..set to no mulitsessions and finalize to disc checked yes ..mode level 1,
just like denon website says ..but when I put it in the player it doesnt see anything ?
ANY suggestions on what nero burn settings are wrong ????

You dont have to unzip the file first do you ?
You dont have to unzip after burning either right ?

hmmmm....it keeps saying my serial number is invalid

anyone wanna download and post the file? or email to me and i will host it for everyone to download if they are having trouble

What is a 3910s ??????

Silver ??

psujohny: I'm sure you need to unzip (or extract) the file before burning it in order for it to work. It would've been helpful for Denon to mention that.
Good luck
BigAl

Cain: Yes 3910s is silver.

here is the direct link to the Denon 3910 Firmware (http://www.usa.denon.com/support/downloads/D31ZSAVD.zip)

anyone else having issues with it no accepting there serial numbers?

Ok, For burning dummies like me..There are a few things that the denon pdf file dont explain to good , and some other things that you can do.

First off, I didnt have nero burn software..but you can do a search on yahoo for nero and go to any number of sites that will let you download a FREE temporary version.

Secondly..
I suggest cd-rW's instead of cd-r's if your a burn rookie like me ..I wasted 6 discs, because I didnt have the rewritable discs..either will work though

On Nero, you need to make sure you follow the direction,s that the settings are ISO9660 only and mode is 1, and that you have the check marks exactly as the denon pdf says...It says burn at the slowest rate..on nero that rate is 4X6000kbs.

One thing I was doing wrong was ,,after I had downloaded the file..I was highlighting it in nero and trying to burn that...I didnt realize that you have to go one step deeper and open up the file itself and then highlight just the .cfw file (there is a pdf file with instructions and another file for 3 total in the one file that you download) again make sure just to highlight the one single file marked with a .cfw extention ( which can be seen by clicking on properties just to make sure you have the exact right file of the 3)

Also another thing I was doing wrong is that the defualt on nero is multi-session on)...you have to check this box to NO MULTI-SESSION,, this way in the burn screen you can highlight the FINALIZE check box...(with multi session check this box was grayed out and that screwed me up)

I just re-checked and I now have version 6 installed ! ..dam, took me about 2 hours worth of screwing around...when in reality the whole process start to finish could literally be done in minutes ..oh well

psujohny: I'm sure you need to unzip (or extract) the file before burning it in order for it to work. It would've been helpful for Denon to mention that.

NO NO, you dont do any unzipping .. The problems I had are stated above..the file you download from denon appears to be only one file but actually its 3 files..you just need to make sure to highlight JUST the .cfw file

and no I didnt have a problem with my s/n on signup..

Its says you can only download or request one in the US mail and not both..which is stupid if you ask me, but did you already request one via US mail ?

Would you believe it...I had called Denon a good while back and hadnt recieved the disc..I had given up hope of getting it from Denon. So this morning I go threw all this hassle as noted above to burn a copy.
Low and Behold, the mail just ran and YES I recieved the disc for Denon today ...Geez, talk about Murphy's law.

dowloaded, burned, and upgrade!!!

yay

Does anyone know if applying this new firmware will disable the multi-region patch?

Originally posted by cmorreale
here is the direct link to the Denon 3910 Firmware (http://www.usa.denon.com/support/downloads/D31ZSAVD.zip)

Which version is this? ESS 6609-6? (edit: yes it appears to be)

I had contacted Denon earlier this week. On Friday they told me they were mailing out a new firmware disc.

I too would also like to know if applying the above firmware will disbable the multi-region hacked firmware version -5.

Remember that DVI is RGB not component and has separate horz. and vert. sync.
But I still cant figure out how the momitsu v880 and zenith dvb318 got it right without the green push and Denon did'nt!

I bought the 3910 for it's analogy output to my analog amps, but I am also buying a surround sound receiver.

just out of curiosity, how many of you connect your 3910 digitally (d-link, 1394 or spdif)?

what's your opinion about them compare to analog, sound wise?

The reason: I haven't bought the surround receiver yet. it will most likely be a HK635 - spdif only. The 3805, supporting d-link, is also an option, though it's quite a bit more money.

Thanks and merry Christmas,

KC

Well, I upgraded fine with the unzipped .cfw file. Your main point if your using Nero that the multisession must be unchecked is correct. And no Jolliet (or Romeo for that matter:D ).

That cheap Samsung also seemed to not have a green push, but I only tried it out for a few days....

FYI, I upgraded to 6609-6 and it does disable the region-free hack that many were using in 6609-5
.

Does anyone know what the 6609-6 fixes, compared with the -5? When I got the unit a few months ago, Denon sent me the -5 upgrade. Should I bother upgrading to the-6 (everything is currently working properly)?

If it aint broke.....???

According to the PDF the Firmware corrects the following issues...

1. Install HDMI version 1.1.
2. Correction for no DVD-a menus on DVI output.

-6 Firmware corrects the no DVD-A menus over DVI problem and updates HDMI support to version 1.1

What does HDMI version 1.1 do different from the previous version(1.0?) ?

1.1 adds full multi channel sound over HDMI

Don´t all the 3910 players have a problem with switching back to black "enhanced" mode. Mine dose it, but the display stays on normal when it´s actually in enhanced mode, and I have to switch it back and forth.

1.1 adds full multi channel sound over HDMI

I thought HDMI already had that, from the first Version (scratching head), maybe not. Where did you read that ???

Anyhow, I'll install this software tomorrow AM, and let you folks know if it fixed the Green Push over HDMI.

I hope it does !!

-- Cain

Originally posted by keyser
Don´t all the 3910 players have a problem with switching back to black "enhanced" mode. Mine dose it, but the display stays on normal when it´s actually in enhanced mode, and I have to switch it back and forth.

I found this also happened with the 2910.

It happens when you change digital resolutions on the fly. The player drops into Enhanced black mode, but the HDMI/DVI black Level control still reads Normal. Cycling the control restores black levels to Normal mode, and they should stay that way unless you switch resolutions again.

I sent Denon email on this, as well as the green push, EE and Y/C errors on the 2910.

Hopefully, the latest software update addresses many of the issues. If not, I'm sure Kria will use his Denon contacts to make something happen. :D

Have you guys emailed Denon about the green push?

Looking for a Region-Free patch with a chorma-delay fix firmware - does the latest All-In-One (-6) firmware fix the 2 problems I am facing?

HDMI 1.1 is not an issue here...but fixing the problem of DVD-A Menu showing up over DVI connection is a concern here for me though as I owned a copy of Faith Hill - CRY DVD-A and indeed I am having problem with the DVD-A menu showing up at all via DVI output. I have to switch between Component then switch back to DVI connection in order to get the DVD-A menu to appear via DVI.

**sigh** so many bugs for this Player!
I am based in Singapore (Asia Pacific)...any member from Asia Pacific region having the latest (-6) firmware...can email me at: desray@starhub.net.sg

Really appreciated. My thanks to Jay Shah for sending me the firmware (-6) but its region locked... :( So I have pass on that. And it doesn't fix the Y/C Delay I am currently facing too...

Have you guys emailed Denon about the green push?

I have not, I assumed someone else had, or that Kris did. I think he is in fairly close contact with them.

-- Cain

spec 1.0 only allowed 2 channel to pass via HDMI(ALTHOUGH CAPABLE OF MULTI)
spec 1.1 allows for multichannel to pass.
got this from an arcam brief, as i think they were the first to sell a 1.1 spec out of the box.

Originally posted by gandley
spec 1.0 only allowed 2 channel to pass via HDMI(ALTHOUGH CAPABLE OF MULTI)
spec 1.1 allows for multichannel to pass.
got this from an arcam brief, as i think they were the first to sell a 1.1 spec out of the box.

Still no SACD over HDMI though...

Originally posted by Bytehoven
It happens when you change digital resolutions on the fly. The player drops into Enhanced black mode, but the HDMI/DVI black Level control still reads Normal. Cycling the control restores black levels to Normal mode, and they should stay that way unless you switch resolutions again.


This has not happened to me, but I just set the output at 720p via DVI when I set it up, and have never changed it since. So, if I leave it at 720p, it should never reset to Enhanced?

The DVD-A problem seems like a nice fix, so I'll probably upgrade to -6 (I don't have any DVD-A's yet, so haven't noticed the problem).

Thx gandley !!

Originally posted by Jorgen
Hi Edwin. Care to share the -6 firmware??? I'm also located in NL. I know that Barendh is also on the lookout for -6. Is it multi-region?
Thanx in advance.

Hi Jorgen,

I do not have version 6 on file or disk, it was already installed on my 3910 when I received it. Yes, my player is multi-region.

Have you tried to request it from your dealer?


Edwin

Originally posted by uzun
If the 3910 has green push using HDMI/DVI regardless of resolution, and no green push using component I would suggest the 3910 uses the high resolution color matrix for digital DVD data regardless of the resolution.

Anyone who has a display device that lets them override the color matrix for DVI/HDMI signals, try forcing it to the standard matrix, I bet that fixes the problem.

As I said before, I am using component and I do see a green push. Looks like not all 3910 owners experience this issue so it is most likely a combination of hardware, and maybe, firmware of 3910.

I am using version 6 of the firmware with a Panasonic plasma (SD screen), maybe the problem is only with plasma screens of some specific brands or makes?


Edwin

I hope version (7) of the firmware (whenever it arrives) fixes the chroma delay and the squeeze mode. Getting the DVD Audio menus back is nice, though.

Originally posted by BillP
This has not happened to me, but I just set the output at 720p via DVI when I set it up, and have never changed it since. So, if I leave it at 720p, it should never reset to Enhanced?

The DVD-A problem seems like a nice fix, so I'll probably upgrade to -6 (I don't have any DVD-A's yet, so haven't noticed the problem).

I did not notice the Normal/Enhanced switch until I was watching Van Helsing, and I lost a boat load of shadow detail.

If the HDMI/DVI black level control reflected the switch, it would be one thing, but becaue it continues to indicate Normal, I can see how people would get really confused. This bug might also contribute to severe miscalibration on dsiaplys needing VIDEO RGB levels.

Maybe you could try switching resolutions and see if your picture goes darker and then changes back if you cycle the HDMI/DVI black level control?

Maybe you could try switching resolutions and see if your picture goes darker and then changes back if you cycle the HDMI/DVI black level control?

Mine did when I switched resolutions..it indicated normal when it was not.
Also Its seems it has did it even when I wasnt switching resolutions to.
I just installed the latest -6 firmware and Im gonna go back and do some tests to further pinpoint the problem ( IF I still have one after yesterdays -6 firmware upgrade)

If the HDMI/DVI black level control reflected the switch, it would be one thing, but becaue it continues to indicate Normal, I can see how people would get really confused. This bug might also contribute to severe miscalibration on dsiaplys needing VIDEO RGB levels.

Maybe this is why some of reported MB ? or maybe have reported a dislike of the 3910's picture after a week trial etc. ..I mean your absolutely right, once you calibrate and verify settings..whos gonna figure the reason the picture doesnt seem right is that the enhanced level has changed when the setting on the display says normal

Originally posted by Bytehoven
If the HDMI/DVI black level control reflected the switch, it would be one thing, but becaue it continues to indicate Normal, I can see how people would get really confused. This bug might also contribute to severe miscalibration on dsiaplys needing VIDEO RGB levels.

Maybe you could try switching resolutions and see if your picture goes darker and then changes back if you cycle the HDMI/DVI black level control?

When I change from Normal to Enhanced, the picture gets darker, and lighter again when I change back to Normal, which must mean that it is correctly keeping the Normal setting. I'm going to leave well enough alone (720p over DVI) since it seems to be working correctly (no need to cycle through the resolutions). Maybe there's no bug if you use 720p/DVI?

Originally posted by ReeseG
I hope version (7) of the firmware (whenever it arrives) fixes the chroma delay and the squeeze mode. Getting the DVD Audio menus back is nice, though.

Where do you have chroma delay?

I see none with Avia with -5 firmware and 480p component. Didn't check with -6, but I assume it to be fine.

Originally posted by Sam Scamardo
Where do you have chroma delay?

I see none with Avia with -5 firmware and 480p component. Didn't check with -6, but I assume it to be fine.

Sam, can you check your 720p and 1080i digital outputs for the Y/C delay?

Originally posted by Bytehoven
Sam, can you check your 720p and 1080i digital outputs for the Y/C delay?

Sorry, no way to check DVI/HDMI on my HDTV :(

Originally posted by ReeseG
I hope version (7) of the firmware (whenever it arrives) fixes the chroma delay and the squeeze mode. Getting the DVD Audio menus back is nice, though.

What squeeze more problem? Mine works fine (you just have to manually set it to "On" on the front panel when watching a 4:3 DVD).

I HAVE no problems with DVI out to Sammy 507. And in fact we are watching AF One superbit, and it is the most awesome PQ, with sound (DTS) all over the place. Black set to enhanced, and plenty of shadow detail WOW, what a player,
rick

"I have not, I assumed someone else had, or that Kris did. I think he is in fairly close contact with them."
It can´t hurt to put some pressure on Denon to fix these things.

It looks like these problems need to be addresed:

1. Switching to "enhanced", and the displays stays at "normal"
2. Green push

And it would be awesome if they were to add:
3. interlaced with HDMI(like arcam, pio etc.).

When I use 1080i the picture wobbles, but I think that might be the display(Infocus 5700), not sure.

I´m gonna e-mail Denon, can´t hurt.

Greetings,


The -5 firmware corrected the Y/C delay on my 3910 via DVI. My problem after that upgrade was two fold however. The first was the problem with the DVD Audio menus and the second was that after a DVD video disc loaded the player would drop the signal ( just for a second ). The DVD A menu issue was minor in that I have a front projector and use a seperate CRT monitor for viewing DVD A menu's. The split second DVI signal drop was a pain though. I have two DVI devices and 1 DVI input on my projector and I use a DVI switcher. Every time the 3910 dropped the signal I would have to reselect the input again ( via my remote but a pain none the less ).

The - 6 firmware addressed this and I am glad that it did. I downloaded it from Denon's website ( thanks to who ever posted the link or reference ) and installed it one, two, three.

Thanks again !!


Regards,

How do I upgrade the firmware with a MAC, OS 10.3.7 ????
THANKS, rick

Originally posted by GRC
How do I upgrade the firmware with a MAC, OS 10.3.7 ????
THANKS, rick


If you get it as a CD-ROM just put it in the Denon and follow the usual steps. If you get it as a disc image then use CD burning software like toast to select a disc image to burn, then burn it (do not burn the mounted image, but select the disk image file through the appropriate menu), then follow the normal procedure with the Denon

Who at Denon can supply me with the DV ROM ???
thanks, rick

Originally posted by BillP
What squeeze more problem? Mine works fine (you just have to manually set it to "On" on the front panel when watching a 4:3 DVD).

I thought it was reported that DENON was working on a fix that if set to 4:3 it would extend automatically for anamorphic discs. Mine does not. I have to "UN-SQUEEZE" in order to get widescreen anamorphic to work. I would prefer to just leave Squeeze on all the time.

Reese

It can´t hurt to put some pressure on Denon to fix these things.

I agree, good point.

I'll do it tomorrow, and also try to call them.

-- Cain

I recently bought a DVD-3910 and AVR-3805 and am having trouble enabling Denon Link on the 3910. I have the supplied cable hooked up, but the Denon Link option in the 3910 setup menu is disabled (greyed out so I can't even select it). Any tips? Thanks in advance.

Yes indeedeeo my lad, I had the same problem and it nearly sent me to the nuthouse. You can´t have a DVD or CD running or paused, need to press stop and then the DVD LINK option should magically appear. Hopefully that works.

If you´re also going to use other cables, here´s a setup guide(it´s for the 5900 though):
http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/pdfs/5900_3805%20setup%20tips.pdf

When I use 1080i on my Denon 3910 with my infocus 5700, the picture wobbles/vibrates... anyone else have this problem?

I have used 1080i to my PJ which is a Sim2 300xtra-H and the image is stable so my guess its the display that is playing up, or not quite syncing.

When I use 1080i on my Denon 3910 with my infocus 5700, the picture wobbles/vibrates... anyone else have this problem?


Greetings,

I have also used 1080i from my 3910 to my Sony HS10 front projector and have not experienced what you describe.


Regards,

Originally posted by tsiopni
I recently bought a DVD-3910 and AVR-3805 and am having trouble enabling Denon Link on the 3910. I have the supplied cable hooked up, but the Denon Link option in the 3910 setup menu is disabled (greyed out so I can't even select it). Any tips? Thanks in advance.

Tsiopni,

Another thing to try is put the DVD on "stop" then go into setup, exit setup, and reenter setup (just by hitting the setup button a few times). This solved the problem for me. Some bug in the menus...

Bob

Originally posted by placidman
I have also used 1080i from my 3910 to my Sony HS10 front projector ...
Ralph-

Would you mind posting your settings for your 3910/HS10? How do you have them connected and how do you have them configured? I've been trying to get the most out of my combo, so I'm curious what others have been using. I've got both DVI and component cabling, but haven't determined which works better. Your input would be helpful.

Thanks,

Jason

Hi everyone,
I am a new member to AVS and have been reading your posts for a while, I just purchased a 3910 last night and I am getting a Green Tint/color. I am using a Audioquest DVI cable, and my TV is a Sony GWIII LCD 60 LCD. Please help, :( Thank you,

Originally posted by emont
Hi everyone,
I am a new member to AVS and have been reading your posts for a while, I just purchased a 3910 last night and I am getting a Green Tint/color. I am using a Audioquest DVI cable, and my TV is a Sony GWIII LCD 60 LCD. Please help, :( Thank you,

Welcome to AVS.

The green tint is being caused by the improper color palette being sellected by the display, when seeing the upscaled HD signal from the player.

Some displays have a NTSC SD color palette selection which will properly map NTSC colors for the DVD source when presenteed as a HD signal.

If this is not available, tweaking the display RGB brightness/contrast white balance settings will correct for the green shift.

If these controls are not available, try tweaking the players tint control a couple of clicks to the red. This will help, but is less than perfect because it's not exactly adjusting the green signal like white balance controls.

You could also try tweaking the tint control on the display to see if it does a better job of balancing out the green push.

Good luck.

RJ
...

Thanks RJ,
So your recommendation would be to adjusting the white balance on the Sony LCD display? is that the same as the contrast control? I didn't notice the green push on a pioneer player that I tested in my system earlier! is this player or the display issue?
Thanks again,

Eric

Originally posted by emont
Thanks RJ,
So your recommendation would be to adjusting the white balance on the Sony LCD display? is that the same as the contrast control? I didn't notice the green push on a pioneer player that I tested in my system earlier! is this player or the display issue?
Thanks again,

Eric

Player or display? I don't know for sure because some displays have no trouble with a green push from the denons and others. But it appears to be the SD/HD color matrix selection. Whether it's something messing up on the output of the players or on the internal processing of the display, I am not clear. People are figuring out the specifics at this point, so attention acn be turned to how to properly fix it.

Yes, the RGB contrast/brightness white balance controls are the same as the regular contrast & brightness, except they only affect changes on a specific color.

Sometime when switching on the RGB white balance controls, the color temp of the display goes way out of whack. That's normal and means you have to do a full calibration of both the contrast/whites and brightness/blacks. If your white balance stays unchanged when you switch the white balance controls on, you can then make changes to just the green brightness and contrast controls, taking them lower.

If you have any questions about how to proceed with calibrating the white balance controls, I can elaborate further.

Thanks again RJ,
It would be great if you did elaborate on the caliberation, any and all inputs are appreciated. I think the players built quality seems better than the Pioneer avi59, and I am hoping to be able to make it work for my situation.

Thanks again, :)

Eric

Anyone with an Infocus 7200 like to pass their preferred settings along? Currently running at 720p, Normal, 0 . Was wondering if anyone was seeing a significant difference using 1080i or Enhanced black level.

Reese

Originally posted by emont
Thanks again RJ,
It would be great if you did elaborate on the caliberation, any and all inputs are appreciated. I think the players built quality seems better than the Pioneer avi59, and I am hoping to be able to make it work for my situation.

Thanks again, :)

Eric

Can you point me to a owners manual .pdf for your display? I will take a look at it so my suggestions are in the contaxt of the controls available.

Bytehoven,

I just got done messing around with my rgb setting's on a panny ae500 (as a note I hadnt messed with these before and didnt know that I could adjust like this when using the dvi input)..
It really makes a huge difference to my eyes, but funny it doesnt change what Im seeing on the dve color screen.
What screen (via avia or dvi) do you think is best to adjust for green push ?

I ended up setting the G brightness down to -4 and the G contrast down to -2 ..and at least to my eyes it looks excellant ..Does this sound like I may have adjusted the G's a bit too much ? and do you have a tip as to if the contrat G or Brightness G is the key (seems to me that the Brightness G was what really needed a tweek down on my pj, the contrast G didnt seem to be off as much)


PS. I took your advice in another thread and tried making the adjustments at the display instead of the player ..I had been trying the hue up on the 3910 to +1~+2 (somebody also said that it would be best to leave these at the o default if possible as it would be less processing)..anyway, putting the hue back to zero on the 3910 and adjusting the G brightness/contrast on my pj is indeed a better picture to my eyes on the movie material Ive tried so far ! (again the dve color bars didnt seem to change much it seems)

Bytehoven

I can't post the address, I guess I need to post 5 times before I can do that on the AVS forum. That's understandable. :) I will get you the address once I am there.

Thanks for help, :)

Originally posted by emont
Hi everyone,
I am a new member to AVS and have been reading your posts for a while, I just purchased a 3910 last night and I am getting a Green Tint/color. I am using a Audioquest DVI cable, and my TV is a Sony GWIII LCD 60 LCD. Please help, :( Thank you,

I have a GWIII (70 XBR version) which I recently had professionally calibrated for both the 3910 and cable box inputs. I have to say the results exceeded my expectations and the guy was able to improve the picture 100%. DVD's in particular have much better resolution and deeper color. I also use DVI and I was probably getting some green push before, but since I am somewhat colorblind I didn't really find it objectionable. This also made me reluctant to try getting into the Sony's service menu and doing more damage than good. Anyway I just wanted to let you know that the Sony can be made to look very good with the 3910 (confirmed by my wife who is NOT colorblind!) and many owners have reported that they were able to apply umr's tweaks themselves and have been very satisfied with the results.

You should also check out the thread "UMR Does GWIII XBR & WE" here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=331875&perpage=20&pagenumber=1
for tweaking your set if you want to take this on yourself.

JBaumgart

Thank you for the respond and suggestion, I will look into the thread tonight. However I do feel at this time that this maybe more of the players issue rather than the display. I have never had this issue with any other players in my system!

Thanks once again,

Eric

Originally posted by psujohny
What screen (via avia or dvi) do you think is best to adjust for green push ?

An addition... it is a good idea to dial in the color decoder 1st, using the display tint or more advanced RGBYMC color correction controls. Then move on...

The pattern to use is the stepped grayscale pattern, where it shows grayscale steps from 0 to 100 IRE.

The goal is to dial in the RGB contrast/brightness so that the color of gray is not tinted blue or green or red, although a perfect D65 will reproduce white and the grays with a red tint. I prefer a white balance closer 7800K where white and all of the grays look like gray rather than any color. This makes for higher contrast and I personally like the higher color temp for white and gray.

I start with setting RGB brightness/black levels 1st. I first use the projector blanking control to cut off one side of the image so that it is producing projector black, or no signal. With a black pluge pattern displayed, I lower RGB brightness controls so the black of the projected image is as dark as the blanked area. I then adjust each of the RGB brightness settings, so their specific color just disappears next to the projector black. In this way, source video black for each color, is matched to the projector's no signal/OFF condition.

Now it's time to set the RGB contrast/white levels. I start with the green contrast, and boost the level until I start to crush the brightest whites. The AVIA color bar patterns are good for this, with their moving bars on in the white area. I want both bars to just become visible when backing off the green. I then bring R&G contrast up to that level. I back off the green until the bightest white feels like white without any hint of the green tint. I then back off blue and red in smaller, alternating steps. You will see the color of gray shift from the bottom up as you work back the red and blue. If at some point white starts to look a little green, back off the green a couple of notches. Then continue to back off red and blue until all of the gray steps look gray. When you have a gray scale pattern where all of the gray steps look like gray rather than a red or blue tint, you are in the 7800 color temp range. You can then take red back up until you get a nice D65 tinit to the grays.

I then go back and check the RGB brightness setting one more time to see if they have moved. If the contrast adjustments have been far enough up, RGB brightness may benefit from a click or two lower adjustment.

This method is not perfect. Perfect grayscale tracking can only be attained using proper calibration gear that can actually measure the color of gray. But this method works very well at getting you in the ballpark for good 7800K. Then adding just a bit more red contrast will take ya closer to D65. But I know there are some hard core gray scale caliration experts just grinding their teeth. ;)

It helps if you have a reference, and I do have a cinematographers grayscale chip pattern, which when illuminated with a 6500k lamp, shows proper grayscale. I have found I can get very close to this grayscale chip pattern, buy adding a little more red contrast to the image. But I know the darker grayscales are harder to dial in this way. However, it's close enough for me and looks great.

I would welcome any comments from expert grayscale calibrators, who would wish to recommend additions or changes to my method.

Originally posted by psujohny
(again the dve color bars didnt seem to change much it seems)

White balance does not usually effect the color bar reproduction. This is best accomplished using the blue, green, yellow, magenta & yellow colors in the color correction menu, if available.

Byte,

Can you tell me which chapter the Avia color patters are? Or wht the title of the menu is called?

Thanks,
Scott

Originally posted by scottyb
Byte,

Can you tell me which chapter the Avia color patters are? Or wht the title of the menu is called?

Thanks,
Scott

From the main menu select Advanced AVIA.

Then under the Video Calibrations, select Video Test Patterns

You will then see a selection of sub menus with all of the test patterns.

The color decoding patterns are under Color Adjustment. The graysacle patterns are under Gray Scale & Levels.

:D

Reese what dvi cable are using and how long is it?

Thanks

M

Originally posted by Bytehoven

If you have any questions about how to proceed with calibrating the white balance controls, I can elaborate further.

Please do Mr. Byte

Scott

Thanks Bytehoven..It is indeed a bit confusing to me

An addition... it is a good idea to dial in the color decoder 1st, using the display tint or more advanced RGBYMC color correction controls. Then move on...

I think Im getting a little mixed on the terms..what does the YMC stand for ?

Also my p/j has gamma high, med and low ..Do these get calibrated or stay at defaults ?
All My pj has is seperate r, g and b contrast and brightness controls and the gamma as stated above. Im also pretty sure mine doesnt have that half blanking control you mentioned,

Im gonna give your method a try ..I was just hoping that backing off the G brightness and contrast on the pj would do it .:)
But I do want it to be as best as it can be (short of professional calibration)

Do you still apply anything to the hue on your player ?

and one last question , do you apply anything to the chroma setting on the player ? Its been reported by some that upping this to +1 or +2 is a good thing ( I just cant see any difference with my eyes when messing with the chroma setting )

Ok, Ive been reading more about the greyscale and the color decoding that is applied on to the greyscale..

My question is, does adjusting the RGB contrast/brightness effect the greyscale or does it effect the color decoding applied onto the greyscale or it effects both ?

I think the answer is that it effects the greyscale (unlike the hue/tint and other color decoding adjustments) as such you have to be much more carefull adjusting the RGB settings as it does effect the greyscale and you could screw up the entire greyscale ..while the color adjustments may give you a bad picture but wont effect greyscale //Is this right ? am I close or waaaay off :)

I guess what Im asking specifically is what core components/adjustments make up the greyscale and then what is just a part of the color decoding process that is applied to greyscale

RBGYMC stands for red, blue, green, yellow, magenta, cyan, which may be available for color correcting the decoder. If not, you may be limited to tint and saturation controls.

Gamma controls are something entirely different, and would be used after calibration, to change the reproduction of black levels while manitaining the value of the darkest black.

If you don't have the ability to change the blanking/masking around the edges of your display, then you would need to use the traditional method for setting plack using the pluge pattern.

I would leave the player in it's standard factory defaults for tinit and color, and make all adjustments on the display if possible. But it you are forced to use tinit/color saturation on the display, You can certainly try the adjustments on both the display and player to see which works best.

Color decoding and grayscale are two, almost seperate issues. Yet they do overlap. If the color decoder is out of adjustment and you perform a grayscale correction and then go back and color correct the decoder, the grayscale can go out of adjustment again. Set the color decoder 1st, then tweak grayscale. Then to be totally safe, you could go back and check the color decoder setting again.

Write down the RGB brightness/contrast settings, so you can always get back home.

You could try adjusting just the green contrast as it alone may do the trick. But it depends on how much the image changes when you engage the manual white balance controls. On my projector, when I switch on the manual white balance controls, the projector goes completely out of whack and requires a total calibration.

AS I said, adjusting the color decoder and adjusting grayscale are two seperate issue. Yet they do overlap slightly. I have found the tweaking of the color decoder will have a greater impact on grayscale, than white balance control adjustments will have on the color decoder. That's why I feel setting the decoder 1st is the best way to start.

For those displays that ony have tinit and saturation available to tweak the color decoder AND grayscale, your adjustment range is much more limited. You may find a simple tint adjustment to red to adjust for the green push, may take the color to far out of spec for the color decoder check. At this point, you will have to find a happy balance.

In some case where only tint & saturation are available, there may be additional controls in the display service menu.

The key difference between the grayscale adjustment and color correction is...

White balance changes the level of red, blue and green contrast and brightness, but the color values stay locked. On the other hand, color correction actually changes they color value of red, blue, green, yellow, magenta & cyan. So while they do interact, they really have two entirely effects on the image reproduction.

Sorry if this is al so confusing, but you are into some seriously deep stuff here, and I am hardly doing the topic justice. ;) I know just enough to be dangerous I'm sure. :D

OK RJ,

One more question then. How do you go making sure the color decoder is correct. I like you have access to these. How do i know where each one should be as obviously they interact. Thanks in advance.

I used your method for setting grayscale and my picture is much improved over DVI. I know I'll have tyo redo it if I change the color correcting.

Thanks for all your help.

Scott

Hi guys. I just needed to throw this question out here since this is my first $1k DVD player. Is there anythign special or important I need to do before installing it? (aka set-up). I plan on connecting it to my Fujitsu via HDMI. Also read about firmware upgrades and would like to find out resources for this. Thanks for your time in advance.

Richie

I called DENON, gave them my 3910 serial number, and a DVD rom upgrade disc is on its way. He said it fixed some minor bugs, but I would not notice any DVI improvement, and after runing thru AVIA, I can agree. All factory defaults were dead on......oh but that sound !!!!
rick

Sorry if this is al so confusing, but you are into some seriously deep stuff here,

Thanks for the answers Byte, and your contribution is apreciated. I still cant say that Ive "got" it, the whole concept behind greyscale and color decoding and how they interact..But I do feel Im starting to get a better feel for it anyway and that my friend is a start :)
I only have dve at my disposal for now, as a freind of mine has "borrowed" my avia disc :(

Originally posted by keyser
Yes indeedeeo my lad, I had the same problem and it nearly sent me to the nuthouse. You can´t have a DVD or CD running or paused, need to press stop and then the DVD LINK option should magically appear. Hopefully that works.

Worked like a champ. Thanks!

emont is a troll.
How many more trolls bash this pj depends on how succesfull it is? How many times they are humored? Anyone going overboard on anything that contains "green" in the subject is suspect in my opinion. Scum-Trolls.

Originally posted by scottyb
OK RJ,

One more question then. How do you go making sure the color decoder is correct. I like you have access to these. How do i know where each one should be as obviously they interact. Thanks in advance.

I used your method for setting grayscale and my picture is much improved over DVI. I know I'll have tyo redo it if I change the color correcting.

Thanks for all your help.

Scott

The color test patterns and filters provided in the DVE, AVIA and other calibration kits, provide for the color decoder calibration. Looking thru the colored filters at specific test patterns, allows for the fine adjustment of the RGBYMC color correction. Hopefully, there is enough adjustment to help you dial in a proper balance for all aspects of the color correction..

I mentioned how my DVI signal to the HT1000 can be color corrected perfectly across the board. Yet the VGA-RGB input can either get saturation right for green of red. I pick green because red can stand up a little better with under saturation.

Hi Guys, I'm a few days away from ordering the 3910. I'd prefer the Arcam DV79 since it matches my Arcam AVR300 receiver, but it has a few issues that tip the scale in favor of the 3910, lack of SACD being one. I've followed this thread from the start but need reminding.

What do I need to know before buying to insure I've got the latest version? (I'm getting a silver one if that makes any difference).

Also, I've heard of a "green push" mentioned in regards to the 3910, is this so?

Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by Martin Butler
Also, I've heard of a "green push" mentioned in regards to the 3910, is this so?

Thanks in advance.

I've read several reviews on the 3910, and don't recall hearing a thing about green push in any of them. Although a few members here have reported experiencing it on their particular display, I do think it's the exception to the rule, and in any case the myriad of adjustments on the 3910 allow "tweaking till you drop" if that's something you enjoy doing.

Also, I've heard of a "green push" mentioned in regards to the 3910, is this so?

First, I started this whole thread, and I can recommend this DVD player without reservation.

It is by far the best one I have ever owned and its picture clarity and contrast is nothing short of stunning over HDMI.

For many of us with digital displays it does have a strong green push when using a digital out, like HDMI. The 2910 had the same problem, and it has been fixed.

I am confident this will be corrected by Denon in a software update.

Take care,

-- Cain

Damn... I stopped yesterday at our local Denon dealer to buy a 3910 and he is sold out and they not getting any more units into their warehouse until January 15th or so.... :(

How much is the 5910, is it available yet, and how does it compare to the 3910?

Thanks guys. So... there may be a "green push" from the HDMI out that will most likely be fixed with firmware by Denon. Hopefully they won't let it go as they did with the macroblocking on the 5900 (unless I'm mistaken, and they've fixed that).

Two questions: Does the "Green Push" show up via DVI? I have an InFocus projector that doesn't have an HDMI input. Since the projector has the same Faroudja processing as the 3910 I may use component out for DVD playback, but do I lose upsampling capability that way?

Also, is there a way to know which version I should look for from the serial number on the box?

OOPS, that's three questions


_________________________________________

Happy Holidays.

Martin,

My 3910 setup does NOT exhibit green push nor macroblocking. I am very pleased with it and would absolutely recommend it. I have it connected to my DLP via DVI @ 720p with excellent results. During evaluation I also used component connection with similiar excellent results (we thought DVI looked just a little bit better but by only a small margin).

As to upscaling... the 3910 (nor any of Denon's players) upscale over component. There are only a couple of players around that do (The Zenith with older firmware being the one most referred to).

Greetings,

Martin, I also have my 3910 connected via DVI to my Sony front projector and there is no green push. I would recommend connecting via DVI as I agree that image quality ( in my case set to 720p ) is a little better than component.


Regards,

How much is the 5910, is it available yet, and how does it compare to the 3910

Hello Merc,
havent seen you around for awhile ..
The 5910 is supposedly gonna be somewhere around 3500.00 in the states ..supposed to be out sometime Jan. according to some here on this forum. The 5910 basically is gonna have i-scan built into it and be a 40lb jam packed almost revolutionary product..
I just bought a 3910 that Im happy with but I think the 5910 is gonna be in an entirely different league of its own

All this talk of a "Green Push"...must be something wrong with my eyes because I see a perfect picture. Firmware Ver. -6, HDMI.

By the way, it looks like you can download the latest firmware versions over the internet now.

I think you can find something wrong with any piece of equipment and spend a lot of time looking for that "perfect" piece of electronics...meanwhile, my family and I will be enjoying watching stunning DVDs over the holidays.

I think if you in the market for an excellent player, this one will not disappoint you. I certainly have no buyers remorse (even when reading these forums! ;) )

When outputting over hdmi (in my case into dvi on a Toshiba MT8) what are the differences in the 2 HDMI output modes - RGB and YUV? Which of the two is more accurate for film reproduction or are they just for different types of projector input?

M

Hey Digital Puppy, well said. My ONLY complaint with the 3910 is it is so revealing of the quality of the DVD. On the Bravo DI it was far more forgiving, but the Denon is not. Green push ?????
Gotta be something wrong with their displays,
rick

tsteves,
Thanks for the kind comments:)
I actually got the Firmware upgrade last night over the Internet, and uploaded it on the player, and I have to say that it improve the picture by a great margin. There is still a hint of green push on my Sony LCD display, the upgrade also corrected the DVI hand shake issue I was experiencing when I first loaded a DVD in the player. Overall great results, if you haven't done the upgrade on the firmware yet then I suggest you do and you will be in for a treat. :)

Thanks for everyone who helped me through this learning transition.

Originally posted by emont
tsteves,
Thanks for the kind comments:)
I actually got the Firmware upgrade last night over the Internet, and uploaded it on the player, and I have to say that it improve the picture by a great margin. There is still a hint of green push on my Sony LCD display, the upgrade also corrected the DVI hand shake issue I was experiencing when I first loaded a DVD in the player. Overall great results, if you haven't done the upgrade on the firmware yet then I suggest you do and you will be in for a treat. :)

Thanks for everyone who helped me through this learning transition.

You got the link for getting the firmware upgrade??

thanks

mismatched

mismatched,

Here is the Link, you do need to have your unit model no, and the serial number. After that it allows you to download the new firmware. You do need to burn an ISO image of the firmware. I used the Nero burning software and it worked like a charm. There is also a PDF attachment that explains the procedure. Let me know what kind of results you get. mine sure has been a positive one, :)



http://www.usa.denon.com/support/upgrades.asp

emont

Thanks. noticed you are in Yorba Linda! I grew up just south of Commonwealth and east of Placentia Aves. in Fullerton. Have not been back there for about 20 yrs!

Ahy changes? wink wink

mismatched,

That is awesome to hear:) My gosh there has been alot of changes here! This parts of OC has just grown even more. If you can believe that!
Anyway good luck with the upgrade. :)

My Denon 2200 was in the repair shop for a month and finally they told me I can get a new 2910 as an even swap or pay $500 to get the 3910.

I am not a Denon expert although I have poured through hundred of posts trying to learn as much as I can. Can anyone please tell me what I gain from the 3910? I know it is supposed to be a premium player and most of the people in this thread are quite happy with it, but in reading the specs, I can see very little difference between the two, but I know there must be some critical differences.

I own a Denon 3805 and will be using component video into a Fujitsu ED plasma screen. It seems like the audio is quite good on the 3910 and I am very interested in both SACD and DVD-A. If anyone can give me some help in making this decision I would greatly appreciate it.

Of course the 3910 is in stock and the 2910 is backordered for two weeks and having been without a good player for a month, I am trying not to let this cloud my thinking.

The main difference is in the quality of the DACs, the isolation of its "innards" to reduce noise and something I understand even less, which is alot, a fancy way to cut down on vibration in the tray for those of us who like to take full advantage of our Denon stuff, i.e. when we play it !@%^#$% LOUD.

I am in the same position as you. Waiting for a backordered 2910S and wondering whether to spring for the 3910. The 3910 can do all your digital decoding for you unless of course you have a $2500 plus receiver and then the receiver is likely to have better decoding capability.

Now I await the real experts to answer your questions!!

mismatched

I AM NO EXPERT, but the choice I feel really depends on your audio system and monitor. I have the KRELL HTS, KRELL Amps, and B&W 802's. Needless to say, the audio system is extremely revealing, and that was what sold me on the 3910. None of the other DENON's, Pioneers, or ROTEL came close, heck, even the Krell player was blown away by the 3910. I think that the associated equipment you are matching the DVD player has to be considered. On lesser systems, I have no doubt you would hear the awsome sonics of the 3910. On the video side, I have the Samsung 507, being fed by the DVI port of the 3910, with the 3910 set to 720p. As I mentioned before, I went thru the AVIA video calibration, and had to change nothing on the 3910's extensive array of adjustments.. Every test was dead on. Just wanted this discusion to consider these factors,
happy holidays to all, rick

The local Denon dealer tells me that the DVD-3910 is going up in price to $1499 MSRP as of January.

Has anyone had a problem with disc loading in their 3910? My DVD copy of Vertigo absolutely refuses to load. It is scratch-free, and works perfectly on several other players.

I have never had any issue with all other DVDs/SACDs/DVD-A/DVD-R/CDs etc. Everything I've thrown at it works, so this is just plain odd.

GRC/Pete

I have the following components: Denon 3805 receiver and B&W speakers, 3 yr old P6 front L/R speakers which retailed for $1400 per pair, the CMC center channel, the LM rear L/R wall mount speakers and their subwoofer retail at $550.

So will I notice the audio superiority of the 3910 over the 2910?? Obviously depends on my ear.

but will I benefit from the 3910 with my setup??

thanks

RML

PS assuming Pete's source is correct I better act soon if I go for the 3910!

emont
I apologize for busting on you, but I believe most posting about "strong green push" are either nuts or faking it. Some displays are showing some green push. WTH??? You blame it on the DVD player? Get over it, you may have to actually adjust something.

but will I benefit from the 3910 with my setup??



Yes, You will definitely benefit. There is more bass slam, the sound stage is wider/deeper and you will here more detail while still staying somewhat neutral. My reference is against a 2200 which I expect to be closer to the 2910 sound.

Originally posted by sam


Has anyone had a problem with disc loading in their 3910? My DVD copy of Vertigo absolutely refuses to load. It is scratch-free, and works perfectly on several other players.

I have never had any issue with all other DVDs/SACDs/DVD-A/DVD-R/CDs etc. Everything I've thrown at it works, so this is just plain odd.


Not the 3910 but my 2200 will not load one of my kids DVD's Schoolhouse Rock that works on everything else. It's the only one though.:confused:

Originally posted by mark antony
Reese what dvi cable are using and how long is it?

Thanks

M

I'm using the Better Cables Display Magic 9 meter with adapter.

BTW, then goes into a 2:1 Geffen switch. No problems

None of the other DENON's, Pioneers, or ROTEL came close, heck, even the Krell player was blown away by the 3910.

The local Denon dealer tells me that the DVD-3910 is going up in price to $1499 MSRP as of January.

If that is true after the holiday shortage.... I will never buy another Denon product from the authorized channels ever again and will do my best to show others how and where to save mucho money on every Denon unit they buy from now on..... while using extended warranties to provide what the Denon warranty might somehow provide at a much lower price.

Raising the price on the 3910 while the initial allocation did not come close to filling the needs of the waiting loyal Denon early adopters, can do nothing but turn us off Denon forever... as well as, give us good reason to diss them forever more to anyone else naive/fool enough to consider them.

In the meantime... I sure wish I could buy a 3910 from my Tweeter Store tomorrow. Since Denon so severely limits my options with regards to where I can buy my Denon gear, they are as much responsible for my not being able to buy their gear tomorrow as is anyone else, IMO.

In the meantime... I am getting an iScan HD with SDI and modding my old Denon 1600 with an SDI output.

Originally, I had wanted to do the mod to the 3910 but for now, that might wait.... forever. :(

None of the other DENON's, Pioneers, or ROTEL came close, heck, even the Krell player was blown away by the 3910.

The local Denon dealer tells me that the DVD-3910 is going up in price to $1499 MSRP as of January.

If that is true after the holiday shortage.... I will never buy another Denon product from the authorized channels ever again and will do my best to show others how and where to save mucho money on every Denon unit they buy from now on..... while using extended warranties to provide what the Denon warranty might somehow provide at a much lower price.

Raising the price on the 3910 while the initial allocation did not come close to filling the needs of the waiting loyal Denon early adopters, can do nothing but turn us off Denon forever... as well as, give us good reason to diss them forever more to anyone else naive/fool enough to consider them.

In the meantime... I sure wish I could buy a 3910 from my Tweeter Store tomorrow. Since Denon so severely limits my options with regards to where I can buy my Denon gear, they are as much responsible for my not being able to buy their gear tomorrow as is anyone else, IMO.

In the meantime... I am getting an iScan HD with SDI and modding my old Denon 1600 with an SDI output.

Originally, I had wanted to do the mod to the 3910 but for now, that might wait.... forever. :(

Ah when has a modern piece of electronics gone up in price? Anyone remember that happening? I have my doubts that this rumor is true. Anyone else hear about a $200 increase for the 3910??

Ah when has a modern piece of electronics gone up in price? Anyone remember that happening? I have my doubts that this rumor is true. Anyone else hear about a $200 increase for the 3910??
Well, not in the real world free market, but in the wholly controlled, kick your dealer ass controlled market of Denon, YUP.... anything is truly possible if it increases the bottom line of Denon.

Hi all,

Rather than going to the latest and greatest, I have updated my 3910 with the region free firmware.

I know the new one updates HDMI, which I don't use, and it also fixes a DVD-a menu thing, which I don't use either- I just listen to SACD instead of DVD-A.

So, if I stick with the region free firmware, am I missing anything for picture quality via DVI?

thanks,

KC

Originally posted by merc
Well, not in the real world free market, but in the wholly controlled, kick your dealer ass controlled market of Denon, YUP.... anything is truly possible if it increases the bottom line of Denon.

That's why they are in business - to make money. They and their dealers set the price, while the decision to buy or not to buy is up to each individual. In the case of the 3910, I bet there will still be many takers who think the higher price is worth it - it'll still be less than what they were asking for the 5900.

Thanks Reese, what adaptor are you using? The reason I ask is I have the same DVD, projector and dvi 8m cable, but can't get the two to sync, even with firmware 6.

Re the guy that mentioned a problem with Vertigo have a look at http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=220582

Regards

M

The prices are going up due to the very weak $$. Don't be surprised if other brands go up as well.

If the manufacturing is in China, and China has an artifcially fixed rate for Yuan vs Dollar, I suspect price increase is just a ploy. May be D-Link is getting approved for SACD next year; and price increase reflects that pretext...more like a wishful thinking though. Another reason can be to increase price of 3910 to make it less attractive for those who will want 5910 but vacillate a bit due to the current price differential with 3910. Just shooting in the dark I guess...

I know by definition as a digital source it should be but has anyone A/B'd the HDMI and DVI source to see if there is a difference in the picture, either in quality or "green push"

Randy

That's why they are in business - to make money. They and their dealers set the price, while the decision to buy or not to buy is up to each individual. In the case of the 3910, I bet there will still be many takers who think the higher price is worth it - it'll still be less than what they were asking for the 5900.That's not the point... but, hopefully, the price increase will drive even more folks into the grey and black market for this unit.

I've agreed to buy one now, from a Denon authorized dealer, at almost full MSRP. But, Denon won't let me. Instead, they have purposefully dried up the pipeline in order to put into effect a price/profit increase. That's fine. If I ever do get one of these, it will be a used unit or one bought from some grey market dealer.

As for a companies right to make profit.... isn't that true about every company??? How much bitching do you hear when some pharma company does the same thing as Denon for the love of profit? Afterall, folks can still either pay the $20 a pill, take a less preferable but cheaper medicine, or go to Mexico to get their drugs..... ;)

IMO, this move by Denon is just plain SLIMY.

Denon has the right to charge whatever they wish. The economic principle of this country is based pretty much on supply and demand. If you don't like what they charge just go out and buy something else. If they see an increase in inventory the price will drop.

If you order the unit today, or before the price increase, they should honor the price you ordered the unit at. This is probably why they announce the increase ahead of time. Hopefully your dealer will also honor the current price when ordered.

As far as the MSRP, I agree it's BS and contrary to free market. If you don't like it then petition your law makers to make the practice illegal. (good luck on that)

Originally posted by mark antony
Thanks Reese, what adaptor are you using? The reason I ask is I have the same DVD, projector and dvi 8m cable, but can't get the two to sync, even with firmware 6.

Re the guy that mentioned a problem with Vertigo have a look at http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=220582

Regards

M

Check your PM.

Originally posted by mark antony

Re the guy that mentioned a problem with Vertigo have a look at http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=220582

Regards

M

Mark, thank you so much! I thought I was losing my mind. Was about to give my 3910 a kick in the pants. I am so relieved. Thanks for taking the time to point this out.

-Sam

My pleasure, It's a great film so it's a crime that it doesn't play!

Thanks Reese, I've returned your msg...

When outputting over hdmi (in my case into dvi on a Toshiba MT8) what are the differences in the 2 HDMI output modes - RGB and YUV? Which of the two is more accurate for film reproduction or are they just for different types of projector input?


M

tsteves,

Forget about it, :)

I have had more than my share of DVD players in my system, and I personally have never experienced the green push until I installed the 3910, you can take it any way you wish, but I have no reason to make up something like that. However I have to tell you that once I upgraded the firmware that improved things by a great margin, I still do have a small amount of green push on it. That is a fact and if that was a display issue, than why is it less now after the upgrade? I am sure with additional adjustments I would be able to get it just right. However you got to keep this in mind that when I install a player in my system, and after a basic set up It should perform and look pretty good, specially when you take in the price ratio of the player in question. With that said, I still think that the 3090 is a great player in many respects. You can look through this forum, and find enough reference in regards to the so called green push, and it seems like it may even be due to some, and not all displays. You might want to think of all of them as nuts, but that is why we come here to AVS forum. To share our actual experiences, good or bad. Regardless of Price or Brand, and hope to keep irrelevant/and personal insults to a minimum. :)

Thank you, and Happy Holidays to all. :)

Many of us who have the 3910 and love it, have a definite green push over HDMI. They had the same problem with the 2910, but it seems to have been fixed now.

Did the version -6 Firmware help you the most with this issue ??

-- Cain

Cain,

The Firmware Helped very much. Not only with the amount of the green push, but also the DVI handshake. I was having a loss of signal of some sort when I first load up a DVD in the player, and that went away completely. I have some of my discs that I recorded my self (DVD-R) that get stock/stop sometimes in the player (not all), these are discs that I have recorded on my computer's burner though. On a positive note: the sound on this machine is awesome! I mean not only there is plenty of detail, but also warmth to the sound. My SACD's sound better than ever. :)

Thanks,

Eric

Merc,
Again, they are raising their prices due to the weak dollar. Their other option is just to sit back and make less profit per unit as the dollar slides. Prices are ultimately determined by supply and demand. If they're more expensive than other brands, then buy the other brands. The 3910 would still be less expensive than the Onkyo, Integra, and Marantz (which I don't think are any better - the Marantz came out less well in the Secret's shootout), so why don't you complain about their pricing? And if you order the 3910 now, with a deposit, you'll get it at the current price. So, what's the problem?

Guys bit of a side question, but some folks have said they have had there 3910 SDI modified and then used it with the DVDO iscan HD+. thing is i find no mention of the iscan HD+ having an SDI input, do they also get the iscan modified or am i missing somthing?

Gandley,
There is a SDI card for the ISCAN products. They charge between 300 and 400 bucks for it though.

Dave

Originally posted by BillP
Merc,
Again, they are raising their prices due to the weak dollar.

So all of Denon's prices will be increased? I would hope Denon is not cherry-picking the 3910 alone for a price increase because it happens to be a popular model...

Both the 2910 and 3910 are increasing their list price. Don't know about their other equipment.

Ahh i see, its like an add in card. Ok will have to look further, thankyou Dave

Originally posted by BillP
Both the 2910 and 3910 are increasing their list price. Don't know about their other equipment.

Is the price increase the same percentage? $200 on a $1299 item is a whopping amount of increase. I would be more inclined to think that some part of these machines has for some reason become more expensive to obtain. These companies generally hedge against rising costs by locking in contract rates, so my WAG is that one of their suppliers may have had some major issues with maintaining supply, I am not really buying the weakening dollar idea.

All I know is what I read on this forum about the price increases. Try searching (I remember at least 2 threads on this topic, and they may have more info).

Yeah, a $200 increase seems like an awful lot to chock up to a weakening dollar. Is the dollar only worth 80 cents now? I hope not, I've still got XMas shopping to do! :D Geez, I feel Canadian...weak dollar, lots of snow, Molson...

Jason

I bet it's a combination of higher costs in China and a calculation that they can bump the price without hurting sales too much. After all the player has received very high marks and is obviously very much in demand at the current price.

Not worth $1100.00 and sure as hell not worth $1499.00! What pisses me off that it is the ONLY damn player with D-Link in the whole Denon lineup so would make hooking up with my 3805 a bit easier but no DVD player is worth more than I paid for a reciever!

They have yet to even implement SACD on D-Link. Gee, should I ask for a refund for my D-Link NOT WORKING 100%?

Originally posted by JasonColeman
Yeah, a $200 increase seems like an awful lot to chock up to a weakening dollar. Is the dollar only worth 80 cents now?

Jason

Actually, yes, if you travel to Europe, the $ is worth at least 20% less than it was 2 years ago.

Spectre, many would disagree with you, considering the $2000 price tag of the Onkyo/Integra/Marantz units. Now they're way overpriced! The Pioneer 59ai could be a problem for Denon since it is currently, prior to the increase, similarly priced. Personally, I think they're all overpriced, but what can you do. To get top performance, this is apparently what you have to pay (I for one am convinced the 3910 is better than the $300 upscaling players, taking both video and audio into account).

Originally posted by BillP
Actually, yes, if you travel to Europe, the $ is worth at least 20% less than it was 2 years ago.

Spectre, many would disagree with you, considering the $2000 price tag of the Onkyo/Integra/Marantz units. Now they're way overpriced! The Pioneer 59ai could be a problem for Denon since it is currently, prior to the increase, similarly priced. Personally, I think they're all overpriced, but what can you do. To get top performance, this is apparently what you have to pay (I for one am convinced the 3910 is better than the $300 upscaling players, taking both video and audio into account).

Well said Bill, well said!

I am very surprised to see Denon raising the price on the 3910 by this much. Even at the same price, the 59avi is very tough competition for the Denon. Add another $200 to that price, I think you are going to see more sales going towards the 59avi.

Regarding the Onkyo being overpriced, I am certainly inclined to agree, especially when you add the lip sync issue that player is having into the mix.

That's a good point... I've got a 3805, and I really don't want to shell out more then I paid for it for the DVD player, hrmph.

- CG

I just recently connected my second Denon 3910 to my B&K Ref 50 and B&K 200.7. Both players are exhibiting brief sound drops. It happens sporatically on all types of material (CD, SACD, DVD-A, DVD-V, DTS, etc) has anyone else experienced such a problem. I called Denon and they have no reports of an issue but I have seen some threads stating such an issue. Is this a design defect? I don't want a $1k DVD player with this annoying defect. I am not sure if it is some type of compatibility issue with my Ref 50. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

I wonder if the black market "unauthorized internet sellers" prices are gonna stay the same ?
If Denon ups the price and the black market stays at its current price ..Then what your gonna see is these sales going way up and local brick and mortar stores sales going way down imo .
I mean personally I pay a small premium to go the local brick and mortar way , but theres a limit to what Im willing to overpay ..wouldnt take a whole lot to drive me to an ebay seller

Originally posted by Rob Tomlin
Well said Bill, well said!

I am very surprised to see Denon raising the price on the 3910 by this much. Even at the same price, the 59avi is very tough competition for the Denon. Add another $200 to that price, I think you are going to see more sales going towards the 59avi.

Regarding the Onkyo being overpriced, I am certainly inclined to agree, especially when you add the lip sync issue that player is having into the mix.


Yep, It makes the 59avi seem like a no brainer if streets rates for the 3910 increase as well.

For a minute lets assume that Onkyo can fix the lipsync. To me that would more than justify the Onkyo premium over the other models. It does sound and feel and several hundred dollars better.

It will be interesting to see if other manufactures also bump up prices which would make everything relative as well as make my demand curve more elastic.

check out the new 3910 with sdi on ebay right .Is that a good price ?

I searched the Internet and with one click found a bakers dozen of 3910's available well below 1k. Anyone who wants one at a fair price can get it right now, so if you want one...
I felt the pressure and bought one today but won't have time to set it up for a few days. A price increase only shows that something's wrong with our international financial policies.

If the price Denon pays for parts and raw materials is going up and the dollar is getting weaker, they would have no choice but to raise their price. I've got to believe that they have done their competitive homework and are not raising the price out of proportion to other brands/models.

Originally posted by steviec
check out the new 3910 with sdi on ebay right .Is that a good price ?

Yes.

Originally posted by mimason
Yep, It makes the 59avi seem like a no brainer if streets rates for the 3910 increase as well.

For a minute lets assume that Onkyo can fix the lipsync. To me that would more than justify the Onkyo premium over the other models. It does sound and feel and several hundred dollars better.

It will be interesting to see if other manufactures also bump up prices which would make everything relative as well as make my demand curve more elastic.

I have to agree that the look, feel, and overall build quality of the Onkyo is definitely better than the 59avi, and slightly better than the Denon. As always, the question becomes how much that is worth. Unfortunately for me, I wasn't really able to determine if it sounded noticeably better than the Elite or Denon (I didn't get to do A/B comparison's).

By itself the Elite did sound great though.

Well.. now I'm an official "Denon 3910 Owner". I managed to plug it in and test run a CD, SACD, Mp3 CD and a DVD. I've only had a quick look via DVI vs. component without any tweaking and DVI won by the slightest margin. One thing, I'm running six meters of component cable and that affects color balance and saturation somewhat.

Now, after having the "really built like a tank" Sony 9000ES for a few years I can appreciate true build quality as against the 3910's decent build quality. First, what the hell's wrong with Denon using a two prong power cord? I have a nice Harmonic Technology "Fantasy" power cord that works wonders and can't use it. I'll see if there's some sort of adapter made but that may not work as well as direct access. As for the raves about video quality.. I need to look deeper into set up and calibration because as it stands now, it's only a bit clearer than my Sony was but not as bright and I noticed pans are not as smooth. I'll try not to rain on the parade here and give it some time. If the cheap remote that feels like a brick cut in half and the very flimsy CD tray are any indication of what's to come, I'm not that impressed for a $1000 player.

Martin, the power cord, tray and remote are all things you could/should have evaluated in the store, no?

Originally posted by Martin Butler
First, what the hell's wrong with Denon using a two prong power cord?

It doesn't need a 3-prong cord.


I have a nice Harmonic Technology "Fantasy" power cord that works wonders and can't use it.

What sort of wonders?

Originally posted by JasonColeman
Yeah, a $200 increase seems like an awful lot to chock up to a weakening dollar. Is the dollar only worth 80 cents now?


Actually, against other currencies it is... ;)

Where did you guys get the price increase info? My contacts at Denon NJ dont know anything about it.

Originally posted by JasonColeman
Yeah, a $200 increase seems like an awful lot to chock up to a weakening dollar. Is the dollar only worth 80 cents now?
Jason

actually, as of this morning, the dollar is worth less than that: 75 eurocents. but i agree, a 200 dollar increase on the current price (which is 3-4 months old) cant jus be explained by weak currency. lets see if its true first...

Quoting JBaumgart: "Martin, the power cord, tray and remote are all things you could/should have evaluated in the store, no?"

JB, of course, you're right. It was a compromise I had to make to get all the formats I need for my work, ( I'm a music business professional). I much prefer Arcam's build quality, but the DV79 didn't have a few things I needed, even though it's the mate for my Arcam AVR300.
--------------------------------------------------
Posted by Keenan, " It doesn't need a 3-prong cord."

Well duh! How could you miss the point I was making? Every high end piece of A/V gear I've had in the last 7-10 years had a detachable three prong power cord, allowing for upgrades should that be of interest. As for "wonders", I've experimented for years with various cable and power cord options. The differences I've noticed with certain replacement power cords are subtle at first but become obvious after a while. First, I get what appears to be better blacks. What I believe is happening is that some residual video noise (hash) is being eliminated through better shielding and better conductors. Second, colors are more solid and saturated without bleeding. Third: sound quality is improved, usually in a similar way to video, there's a sense of quieter background, putting music in a higher relief. Bass pitch is clearer and the natural acoustic of the recording space is easier to perceive. This can all be debated and has been heatedly debated and that's a topic for another thread.

Guys, "enhanced" means below black is passed, correct? I'm just beginning to look at the manual.

Just in today's newspaper: dollar hits all-time low vs the Euro, with a dramatic drop since Sept.

Originally posted by Martin Butler
Every high end piece of A/V gear I've had in the last 7-10 years had a detachable three prong power cord, allowing for upgrades should that be of interest. As for "wonders", I've experimented for years with various cable and power cord options. The differences I've noticed with certain replacement power cords are subtle at first but become obvious after a while. First, I get what appears to be better blacks. What I believe is happening is that some residual video noise (hash) is being eliminated through better shielding and better conductors. Second, colors are more solid and saturated without bleeding. Third: sound quality is improved, usually in a similar way to video, there's a sense of quieter background, putting music in a higher relief. Bass pitch is clearer and the natural acoustic of the recording space is easier to perceive. This can all be debated and has been heatedly debated and that's a topic for another thread.

Guys, "enhanced" means below black is passed, correct? I'm just beginning to look at the manual.

First of all, just evaluate the audio and video quality before slamming it because of hte cord. Second, black level should be set to Normal, not Enhanced, to get blacker than black. According to Kris Deering of Secret's, it should never be set to Enhanced.

Sorry to have seemingly started an international debate on the strength of the dollar...my comment was tongue-in-cheek! :D

Jason

Billp, not necessarily slamming the 3910, just pissed that I don't have the option to try my replacement power cords. It's too soon to fairly judge anything yet.

I had the multi channel SACD all set up, switched to a DVD for a while, came back to the same SACD and it was now in stereo instead of multi channel. Nothing was different on my receiver. What am I missing here?

Will switch back to normal black level, thanks for the tip Bill.

Martin,
I know this is a basic questiong, but is the SACD you are listening to a mulit-channel mix?

Dave

And did you set it to multichannel in the setup menu of the 3910?

Originally posted by Martin Butler

Posted by Keenan, " It doesn't need a 3-prong cord."

Well duh! How could you miss the point I was making? Every high end piece of A/V gear I've had in the last 7-10 years had a detachable three prong power cord, allowing for upgrades should that be of interest. As for "wonders", I've experimented for years with various cable and power cord options. The differences I've noticed with certain replacement power cords are subtle at first but become obvious after a while. First, I get what appears to be better blacks. What I believe is happening is that some residual video noise (hash) is being eliminated through better shielding and better conductors. Second, colors are more solid and saturated without bleeding. Third: sound quality is improved, usually in a similar way to video, there's a sense of quieter background, putting music in a higher relief. Bass pitch is clearer and the natural acoustic of the recording space is easier to perceive. This can all be debated and has been heatedly debated and that's a topic for another thread.


Martin, if you are happy with your esoteric power cords, then I am happy for you. And you're right, this has been debated and the fact that it has been "heatedly debated" should give you pause to consider that there is absolutely no proof that an esoteric power cord will make any difference in how a component will perform, but, since you seem to think it does, then they are probably worth every penny you've paid for them and that's really the bottom line. Enjoy.

The standard 3-pronged cords work fine on the 3910, it just doesn't connect to the ground. The shape is the same. FWIW.

Fellini8.5, THANKS!

I took a second look and it was my mistake all along, the power cord does fit, it was installing it from an awkward position and being a tight fit I wasn't hitting the precise spot to slide it in. Apologies to all. As for if it made a difference, well in this case I'm not certain. If it did, it's extremely subtle, colors seem a bit more accurate but I could be imagining that. I won't be able to calibrate until after Christmas.

As for black level settings the "Enhanced" setting is giving me proper black level and the normal is giving me a washed out picture. I'm running DVI to my projector which is preset for computer DVI, I followed the projector's designers instructions and reset color offsets and gains to set for DVD. I'll look into it further when I can, for now, there's no comparison, enhanced is working much better.

You need to set the black level using a calibration DVD (with black set to the Normal setting).

Also, in picture adjust, you need to go to the far right and set the black level to 0IRE and not 7.5.

Dave

Thanks Guys, I've got Digital Video Essentials, but did you ever try to navigate that damn thing? Not fun. Dave I'll check out "picture adjust" ASAP. Well.. time for some Christmas chores. Best wishes to all the great AVS members.

Hi Everyone, my experience is like most of yours. Nice picture and sound detail are very good. Had to listen to many CDs all over again last night. I do have a problem with the zoom feature. See my post to DVD players. Will some of you put your player in 1.5x zoom mode and tell me if you have jerky, skipping, video during playback of DVDs? They are pretty noticable and there will be occasional audio drops as well. I've open my dealers stock of them and they all do the same thing. Completely unacceptable bug unless you don't need the zoom. I need the zoom for wide screen movies on a 4:3 HDTV. I tried to return for a refund and buy the Integra, but my dealer refuses and wants a couple weeks to find a resolution. Just wondering if it's a bad run or this bug is in all of them, so we can get Denon the info they need to resolve this. Thanks in advance.....

I never use the zoom function personally.

Dave

I know most of you have wide screen TVs and never use the zoom, but would you try it just the same to let me know if the bug is present on all the models or just a certain few or run of them. thanks

funny, I didn't change my settings but after shutting down and then powering on, multi-channel SACD works fine.

For some reason I have to hit "computer" on my projector's remote for it to find the 3910's DVI signal. I used to simply turn on the projector and it searched out the source. I'll try an figure it out after Christmas.

-------------------------------------------------------------

*Good tidings to all, especially our service men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan this holiday season*

Hello:

Hardware: 3910 and NEC-HT1000 via DVI at 720p.
Problem: non anamorphic letterboxed DVDs
For example, Don Juan Demarco, the 'widescreen' side of the DVD is actually 4:3 letterboxed. In Squeeze=off the characters look short and fat.

For 4:3 movie's that are letterboxed what I'm doing is
a) SQUEEZE=ON -- the actors look correct, but only the middle of my screen has a picture on it
b) NEC-HT1000's remote control doesn't let me change Aspect ratios with DVI, and the optical zoom won't go big enough, but the remote does have a Magnify +/- button.

The combination of SQUEEZE=ON and Magnify seems to work fine. The 1.85:1 image pretty much fills my 16:9 screen.
(BTW, normal is no magnification, and below that magnify doesn't shrink the picture, so to turn magnify off just keep pressing the magnify's '-' symbol.)

Hey BasementBob,

I have the same set-up. Have you found the DVI 720p to be the best picture? I'll try to check out your issue soon. I think I had a similar problem last week. Any other advice about this combo would be great(3910 and HT1000)

Scott

I've noticed a slight "shudder" or "skipping" on a few DVD's. I've assumed it was a fault of the DVD, either from not being perfectly clean or from minor scratches, but now I'm not so sure. Anyone else see this very quick little "shudder/skip "type of thing?

Watched "The Incredibles" last night on my 3910/InFocus 4805 combo and I'd have to say that the newest players, Denon's 3910, Pioneer or Onkyo's top of the line must be near the limits of quality possible for the DVD spec. The only way up is BLU-RAY or HD-DVD.

How did you get "The Incredibles" on DVD?

It's not that there's a "limit" for these top players, it's just, DVD's are still and always 480i, and even with all these awesome scalers, de-interlacers, etc, etc. The data is still the same... and you're right, once Blu-ray and/or HDDVD appears on the market, and our source data is 1080p (*hopes*, might be 1080i or 720p, which is fine too!), only then will we be able to truly say "Oh man, I just made a mess in my pants"

cause if you don't go nuts over 1080p LOTR extended, then you're not a true audiophile :D

- D

EDIT: As for the incredibles, either he has connections, or most likely it's a boot legged copy of the net, and burned to DVD.

The Incredibles has not even been processed for DVD yet...so it has to be a bootleg copy. He's in NY, NY for god sake...you can buy ANYTHING on the stree there!!!

Dave

Yeah, even a "official denon 3910" yet it only has composite video!

COMPOSITE? EWWWWWWWWWW

*forces everyone to use composite*

like hell on earth.

- D

whoa! I haven't experienced the "no DVD-A video menus on HDMI/DVI output" bug until last night. Strange b/c all my DVD-a's had been fine before upgrading the 3910's firmware earlier this month.

Thankfully, I found yet another firmware update (dated 12/14/2004) available on Denon's web site and after the download/burn/upload/verify/initialize process, I can rest a little easier and report that all is well.

btw, Seal IV and Elton John's GYBR are both sounding and looking good now.

1080p HD DVD is a pipe dream.

nothru22-

I love your signature line.

I am tempted to borrow it myself if you wouldn't mind!?

:)

Daphoid:COMPOSITE? EWWWWWWWWWWI was showing someone the different kinds of cables (DVI, component, s-video, 75 ohm, composite), and getting them to sort them by quality from a pile of 5 of them, and while I was at it I trained them so that whenever they see a yellow jacketed RCA plug they go "Ewwwww yuch!". I'm not altogether sure they know that it's a composite video, but they know "yellow = ewww". :)

Originally posted by Dave Vaughn
The Incredibles has not even been processed for DVD yet...so it has to be a bootleg copy. He's in NY, NY for god sake...you can buy ANYTHING on the stree there!!!

Dave

I wouldn't even put a bootleg disc in my player, god knows what sort of data could be on those things.

You ever do your R for that other place? :p

I own a Denon 3910 as my primary DVD (ESS 6609-2), and I bought my mother a Pioneer DV-578A DVD Player ($179 CDN) for her 20" television. My goodness does the Pioneer change chapters and bring up the menu fast (less than a quarter second).

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/rumormill.html says Incredibles is expected around 2005/3/15

Hi guys, I was wondering if you were paying attention, and you certainly were. No bootlegs in this house baby! My wife is on the SAG nominating committee this year. We've attended many screenings with Q&A afterward with the stars and directors. It's been a blast. There are at least 100 movies for consideration and they send us screener DVD's. These DVD's are watermarked. If anyone made a bootleg from it the code would identify the owner and lawsuits would follow. I do feel a bit like a movie mogul, you wouldn't believe the list of DVD's I currently have. They do have large disclaimers that pop up for a few minutes every now and then. It disturbs the movie experience a little, but it's a small price to pay. Just watched "Million Dollar Baby" today. Let's see.. will it be "Ray" or "Finding Neverland" tonight..hmm...

Keenan,
I haven't had time..and probably won't get time. Day job has had me working too hard these days!

Dave

I was just wondering how the 3910 does against the Sony 999Es for SACD.I was looking to get into a universal player but don't want to give up the sound quality 999 gives me for SACD.I'm an audio first kind of guy.Video I can take or leave.I've got over 250 SACD's & just a couple of dvd's.

Martin,

What about getting US some bootleg copies? :D

Jason

Ok I guess now is a good time to bring this up, I've been pondering it for a few days, and doing a bit of reading, but with holidays and such I've been busy.

The plan is to get 61" Samsung DLP in a few months (have to earn the money first). Now I'm currently borrowing some 4 year old Pioneer player (which is fine, because I'm currently using a 24" Sony Wega TV [pretty damn good for a small TV, beat the crap off some other tv's in it's size class]).

Anyways, I was considering the 3910, then noticed the 2910 was assloads (ok I just like saying that ^_^) cheaper... I can get the 3910, but it's a hefty price tag.

So basically:

1. Is it worth it's cost?
2. If so, why?
3. Considering I'll be using a DLP and all, are it's benifits really, benifitting me?

Basically I'm trying to figure out what the 3910 gives me over the 2910.

Now for a little more info:

1. My receiver (AVR-3805) doesn't do HDMI switching, or DVI switching.
2. I'm considering either HDMI, or DVI/Denon Link <-- which is better, or is there a third alternative I should do?
3. SACD isn't a huge priority, I don't own any at the moment, but would like to some day, so I'll just buy the analog cables I believe.
4. This is primarily for DVD viewing, audio CD's on ocassion, but mainly reaping the benifits of the big TV!

Little background for the curious: I'm getting the big TV for the primary reason that I'm visually impaired and sitting IN BETWEEN (that's right, in between) my mains to see the TV, is a pain. I can sit back on the couch (about 9-10 feet away) sometimes, but if I really want to watch the program, I have to sit up close). Just because I'm visually impaired doesn't mean I'll tolerate ****** picture. If it's crap, I'll notice it up close if I ever tend to sit there. Also my glasses are +9.0, so I will notice things :).

Thoughts, and a little help for a "big picture hopeful?", oh and btw, the B&M shop here offers free ISF calibrations with every sale (the guy's been certified for 10 years), so that's good to know too.

Thanks!!

- D

Originally posted by Daphoid
Ok I guess now is a good time to bring this up, I've been pondering it for a few days, and doing a bit of reading, but with holidays and such I've been busy.

The plan is to get 61" Samsung DLP in a few months (have to earn the money first). Now I'm currently borrowing some 4 year old Pioneer player (which is fine, because I'm currently using a 24" Sony Wega TV [pretty damn good for a small TV, beat the crap off some other tv's in it's size class]).

Anyways, I was considering the 3910, then noticed the 2910 was assloads (ok I just like saying that ^_^) cheaper... I can get the 3910, but it's a hefty price tag.

So basically:

1. Is it worth it's cost?
2. If so, why?
3. Considering I'll be using a DLP and all, are it's benifits really, benifitting me?

Basically I'm trying to figure out what the 3910 gives me over the 2910.

Now for a little more info:

1. My receiver (AVR-3805) doesn't do HDMI switching, or DVI switching.
2. I'm considering either HDMI, or DVI/Denon Link <-- which is better, or is there a third alternative I should do?
3. SACD isn't a huge priority, I don't own any at the moment, but would like to some day, so I'll just buy the analog cables I believe.
4. This is primarily for DVD viewing, audio CD's on ocassion, but mainly reaping the benifits of the big TV!

Little background for the curious: I'm getting the big TV for the primary reason that I'm visually impaired and sitting IN BETWEEN (that's right, in between) my mains to see the TV, is a pain. I can sit back on the couch (about 9-10 feet away) sometimes, but if I really want to watch the program, I have to sit up close). Just because I'm visually impaired doesn't mean I'll tolerate ****** picture. If it's crap, I'll notice it up close if I ever tend to sit there. Also my glasses are +9.0, so I will notice things :).

Thoughts, and a little help for a "big picture hopeful?", oh and btw, the B&M shop here offers free ISF calibrations with every sale (the guy's been certified for 10 years), so that's good to know too.

Thanks!!

- D

Do you have any use for the DVD-Audio portion or is this strictly a video decision (with sacd)?

John

Daphoid, if you're just interested in video, the 3910 is marginally better than the 2910, but probably not worth the extra cost. Where the 3910 is much better than the 2910 is for audio (redbook and high res). Only you can decide if that makes it worth it to you.

Daphoid

Agree with the advice above re: 3910 audio advantage. I just went through the same 2910/3910 exercise and decided that better audio quality was worth the leap. Now, more importantly (but OFF this threads beaten path), why the heck you looking at a 61" Sammy DLP Presumably the 63 series??)?? Go for the 5674 as it is superior in many ways. I have had one for about 2 weeks and it is spectacular! It was between this Sammy and the Mits 725 and I will not have to look back.

mismatched

PS the only disadvantage of this Sammy is that it is "forcing" me to become a football fan again!

How does the audio/video compare to the Sony DVPS7000 though? That's what I'm trying to replace.

3. SACD isn't a huge priority, I don't own any at the moment, but would like to some day, so I'll just buy the analog cables I believe.


For what it's worth, on a German Forum a guy wrote that Denon Germany told him that approval for DenonLink 3 was imminent (within a few weeks, would it coincide with the launch of the DVD-5910 perhaps?)

Sounds to me like a déjà vu :rolleyes:, but who knows, maybe you'd better wait a little before buying additional analog cables ;)

Yves

Come Jan 1, i think the 3910 is going up $200 so you'll probably pay no lower than $1100 for street price. For that price you can buy a used Iscan HD off videogon and the new Sony 975. This will let you do HDMI 480i to the iscan and do SACD.

2 things to keep in mind...

1. Accepting 480i over the DVI port is not active yet and is an upcoming firmware release from DVDO.

2. There is still some confusion about whether or not the Sony can pass BTB over HDMI, Kris reported it cant but later reports were that certain settings in the menu fixed it.

So for video you are basically getting SDI functionality to an Iscan HD, doesnt get much better at the moment, of course the 5910 will be available in about a month... :)

Heck if you dont need any hi res audio you can save $100 and get the toshiba DVD-VHS combo! It does 480i over hdmi and got a 92 on the secrets tests!

Don't forget with the iscan you can also put all your SD stuff into it as well and have it spit out 720p. So youre not only solving this problem, youre upgrading other stuff as well.

John

Well I've never had a player that can handle the high end audio stuff. I'd like to get into Redbook and stuff (although I know nothing about them, help?) so the audio may be worth it indeed, as I do listen to a lot of music.

As for the 61", I have a shelf in my wall, that is almost perfectly measured for the 61". I'm also visually impaired (as it says above) so bigger == better for me :), as for which series specifically, I'm waiting for the new 1080p samsungs.

- D

Almighty1, the Sony 7000 was a classic, one of the first and one of the best DVD players. It's very long in the tooth now though, so you'll see quite a big difference in a state of the art player like the 3900. Frankly, there are 3 or 4 players now that just about hit the limits of the DVD spec itself. After a 3910 you'll be looking at High Def DVD players.

Go ahead Rob, I don't mind, just put - NoThru22 at the end, being a writer, I am an attention whore when it comes to credit

Sounds good nothru22.

How does it look?

;)

Come Jan 1, i think the 3910 is going up $200 so you'll probably pay no lower than $1100 for street price. For that price you can buy a used Iscan HD off videogon and the new Sony 975. This will let you do HDMI 480i to the iscan and do SACD.

1. Accepting 480i over the DVI port is not active yet and is an upcoming firmware release from DVDO.

If I bought the sony 975 and went hdmi out to the i-scan hdmi input and then dvi out from i-scan to a dvi pj, will this work ? ..Im not sure what connections i-scan has, and exactly how the hookup configuration goes..

Does the i-scan have hdmi and dvi inputs and outputs ?

No. It currently just has DVI in and I am pretty sure just DVI out.

Re difficulties with playing certain DVDs on the 3910; has anyone else had problems in getting the player to recognise the R2 'Donnie Darko' ?

From my understanding you will need the "HD+" due to HDCP compliance. Correct me if I am wrong.

Originally posted by mimason
From my understanding you will need the "HD+" due to HDCP compliance. Correct me if I am wrong.

THis is correct, i didnt realize the regular HD did not have HDCP. So if your display is HDCP compliant youd need the HD+ which is considerably more.

John

Originally posted by Expletive
THis is correct, i didnt realize the regular HD did not have HDCP. So if your display is HDCP compliant youd need the HD+ which is considerably more.

John

Maybe AVS will have a power buy for the HD+...:cool:

FYI; The 3910 is not getting a price increase. I just ordered mine today from Denon NJ.

Originally posted by Tom Grooms
FYI; The 3910 is not getting a price increase. I just ordered mine today from Denon NJ.

Thanks for clearing that up, Tom. I think that was a wild, careless rumour that was inappropriate.

So just how did Denon let you order a player direct, anyways?

Originally posted by Sam Scamardo
Thanks for clearing that up, Tom. I think that was a wild, careless rumour that was inappropriate.

So just how did Denon let you order a player direct, anyways? Im in the Biz so I took advantage of a "special industry accommodation offer" from Denon. :D

Originally posted by Tom Grooms
Im in the Biz so I took advantage of a "special industry accommodation offer" from Denon. :D

Right on!

Be sure and post your impressions when you get it.

I have a 3910S on backorder ( sigh) for a less than retail $1299 retail price....

I play with these things every day. I've set up quite a few on many different displays always with outstanding results.

disclaimer, I'm an audiophile and not a videophile. I bought this piece for a multichannel music system. I have a/b this piece against the 5900 in my home and I believe the 3910 is a little better on Redbook and on par with SACD. YMMV

ps, I wanted a silver one too and they were out. :(

Three dealers in NYC told me the price of the 3910 was going up only a few days ago. They may be mis or dis-informed, I don't know, but I doubt it.

Maybe your right but my contacts didnt know anything about it.

where do you see the macrobloking every body is talking about

Originally posted by Garibaldi_Red
Re difficulties with playing certain DVDs on the 3910; has anyone else had problems in getting the player to recognise the R2 'Donnie Darko' ?

I didn't try this particular movie, but my 3910 doesn't recognise the R2 Bruce Almighty :( : the laser keeps searching and making strange noices.
Tried it on a cheap Philips player, on the Yamaha DVDS830 and on a Pioneer 520 recorder: they all didn't have any problem whatsoever to play this DVD... :rolleyes:

I've got a European model as well (Belgium), it's MR

Yves

Originally posted by heffalump

Thankfully, I found yet another firmware update (dated 12/14/2004) available on Denon's web site and after the download/burn/upload/verify/initialize process, I can rest a little easier and report that all is well.



Link to this firmware update?

Originally posted by esp1
Link to this firmware update?

Denon 3910 ESS 6609-6 firmware (http://www.usa.denon.com/support/regtest.asp)

Check out page 50 of this thread for instructions on how to update once you've burned the file to disc.

Edit: whoops! Looks like Denon pulled the link??

Originally posted by Sam Scamardo
Denon 3910 ESS 6609-6 firmware (http://www.usa.denon.com/support/regtest.asp)

Check out page 50 of this thread for instructions on how to update once you've burned the file to disc.

Edit: whoops! Looks like Denon pulled the link??

Try here:

http://www.usa.denon.com/support/upgrades.asp

Does the AL24 process mean upsampling? Denon's manual states it improves the digital waveform but offers no other details. I'd like to know if I'm hearing an upsampled output from my coax digital out or the multi channel analogue out or both.

Originally posted by Martin Butler
Almighty1, the Sony 7000 was a classic, one of the first and one of the best DVD players. It's very long in the tooth now though, so you'll see quite a big difference in a state of the art player like the 3900. Frankly, there are 3 or 4 players now that just about hit the limits of the DVD spec itself. After a 3910 you'll be looking at High Def DVD players.

I noticed even on Secrets, the 7000 seems to still be one of the best but I just wonder if the 3910 will atleast give the same quality on both audio/video. I know the 5900 had like really high-end audio but wonder what the 3910 is like. Haven't seen one in person yet at any of the local Denon dealers yet since they only have the older models. Is the 3910 a lot taller than the 7000 though? I thought the 5910 will be like what's the high-end spectrum of the DVD players.

The 5910 is supposed to be the "best" but will come with a $3000-$4000 price tag. The 3910 is supposed to be better than the 5900 for video, and pretty close for audio.

Allmighty1, BillP's right. I owned the Sony 9000ES which was probably their best DVD player. It was like the 7000 only better. Much better SACD, better video. The 3910 is similar in size, plays multi channel SACD as well as DVD-A, plays all the burn em' yourself formats and has HDMI/DVI. Here's the good part, it's better all around than the 9000ES and much better that the 7000. There's more detail in the CD section and it's in a different league as far as video.
If the 7000 is your benchmark, you won't be disappointed.

Still don't know if the 3910 upsamples or not...

Thanks guys.... When you play CD's on the 3910, does it actually sound like a CD Player or does it sound more like the DVD type of audio?

Almighty1: "does it actually sound like a CD Player"

Did you like the 7000's CD playback? If you did the 3910 is much better in a few significant ways, detail, bass authority, quiet backgrounds. I was enjoying the wonderful "Concert For George" DVD a few days ago. I was very familiar with the DVD having seen it a few times using my Sony 9000ES. Listening on the 3910 I was able to clearly hear George's son Danni's vocal part among 50 other voices and instruments. It wasn't mixed loud, the Denon simply resolved it all better. Overall the Arcam DVD players are more suitable to an audiophile. They sound better than most stand alone audiophile CD players. BUT, they don't have SACD and their de-interlacers are not always the best (depends on which model). The 3910 has a certain kind of sonic character. I'd say it has "weight", a very solid low end with very good resolution of detail. Where it could be better is in the string and vocal ranges. It's quite good there, but not transcendent as the Arcam is. Still, the 3910 is up to the challenge and I'd say how good it sounds depends on the rest of your system. You'll be missing something if you pair it with an $800 receiver if you get my drift.

*does anyone know if the AL24 processing upsamples CD's and if so, is it available from the Coax out or only from the analogue out?

Originally posted by Martin Butler
*does anyone know if the AL24 processing upsamples CD's and if so, is it available from the Coax out or only from the analogue out? It does upsample CDs (and everything else, except for HDCDs, where the HDCD decoder locks out the AL24). Analog out only.

Thanks Larry, now I'll have to compare the digital processing of my Arcam AVR300 and the upsampled analogue CD out from the Denon. Unfortunately I've got an ear infection and can't listen critically for a few days, bummer.

Its a little more complicated than that. AL 24 is more of a data expansion algorithm than a traditional upsampling device. It takes a 16 bit data stream and expands it to 24 bit where more traditional up-sampling is 44-96 or 192 etc. Its not really that simple but I don't have time to get into it right now.

http://denon.jp/kaisetsu/007.html check the bottom of this link

Martin....."does anyone know if the AL24 processing ....is available from the Coax out or only from the analogue out?"

Larry..."Analog out only."

In addition to the above, those who have Denon AVR-3805, AL24+ will be applied to coax input as well. I guess "+" stands for AL24 on all 7.1 channels (not sure though).

Originally posted by jigesh
Those who have Denon AVR-3805, AL24+ will be applied to coax input as well. I guess "+" stands for AL24 on all 7.1 channels (not sure though). Isn't it the 3805's AL24 chips decoding the raw digital feed from the 3109 in this case?

Isn't it the 3805's AL24 chips decoding the raw digital feed from the 3910 in this case?

Right. 3805 will not apply AL24+ to Ext In (say, SACD/DVD-A) but to the signals fed via digital coax (say, PCM/CD) only. That way AL24 processing won't be duplicated for those playing CD on 3910 having analog audio connection with 3805.

Just in case you are interested, Lumagen starts to offer SDI mod to Denon 3910 at $499. Combined with our video processors/scalers that accept SDI inputs, the best picture quality can be achieved. Besides Denon 3910 we also offer SDI mods to other Denon and Panasonic players at this time.

Please check out our web site www(dot)lumagen(dot)com for more informaiton. Go to "Products" then "Services" for the detailed information. You can also send email to support@lumagen.com for any questions that you may have.

Cheers,

Brian

Originally posted by Martin Butler
Almighty1: "does it actually sound like a CD Player"

Did you like the 7000's CD playback? If you did the 3910 is much better in a few significant ways, detail, bass authority, quiet backgrounds. I was enjoying the wonderful "Concert For George" DVD a few days ago. I was very familiar with the DVD having seen it a few times using my Sony 9000ES. Listening on the 3910 I was able to clearly hear George's son Danni's vocal part among 50 other voices and instruments. It wasn't mixed loud, the Denon simply resolved it all better. Overall the Arcam DVD players are more suitable to an audiophile. They sound better than most stand alone audiophile CD players. BUT, they don't have SACD and their de-interlacers are not always the best (depends on which model). The 3910 has a certain kind of sonic character. I'd say it has "weight", a very solid low end with very good resolution of detail. Where it could be better is in the string and vocal ranges. It's quite good there, but not transcendent as the Arcam is. Still, the 3910 is up to the challenge and I'd say how good it sounds depends on the rest of your system. You'll be missing something if you pair it with an $800 receiver if you get my drift.

*does anyone know if the AL24 processing upsamples CD's and if so, is it available from the Coax out or only from the analogue out?

Good question.... I have the Sony S7000 connected to a Harman-Kardon Signature Series 2.0 Processor with a Proceed AMP5 so I don't know if it's the H/K that sounds bad but the bass seems to be a bit on the thin side compared to a receiver. I just mean some DVD players sound better for movies than they sound for CD's.

How come no-one has attempted to do a firmware modification to enable the Denon Link 3rd edition setting in the 3910 menu, for 3910-3805 users to be able to room-correcting SACD material with no loss? The step up from plain CD to both DVD-A and HDCD material over D-Link is major, but when most of the music you want is SACD, it doesn’t really help.

All information indicates that the functionality of transferring SACD over D-Link is already there, and that it’s just a question of enabling the option in the 3910.

The guys normally doing the DVD mods like enabling multi-region and skipping intros must have their best business case ever. Doesn’t anyone here have any contacts or the skills to disassemble the FW upgrades and locate the setting for D-Link edition?

Sony is obviously not going to officially approve SACD over Denon Link. They would have done that 1.5 years ago if there were any plans to do so. Denon have fed us the b*s* of “Once approval is there, a FW upgrade enabling the option will be available”. Yeah, but what if there is no approval??

Someone within the Denon user community needs to take on the task, or at least hint a mod company about the business case! Or maybe a technician at Denon feeling strongly for his premium customers with 3805-3910 can give an unofficial hint, or release an unofficial 3910 FW build? Surely they exist already.

BR Anders
(3910 + 3805 + B&W Nautilus 805)

Modders typically deal with hardware. D-Link for SACD will be a software (firmware) fix. Firware is mostly written in machine language (aka assembly level language which is tougher to work with compared to the higher level computer languages like C++ or Fortran) - especially those devices that use processors including 3910. Each family of processor will have its own distinct assembly language. In order to modify firmware, the person should have extensive experience with assembly level commands for that particular processor as well as very good knowledge of the design of the product in question to know physical addresses and instances of each software routine corresponding to specific functionality. To summarize, it's not the hardware modders' cup of tea.

Originally posted by anders0x


Sony is obviously not going to officially approve SACD over Denon Link. They would have done that 1.5 years ago if there were any plans to do so. Denon have fed us the b*s* of “Once approval is there, a FW upgrade enabling the option will be available”. Yeah, but what if there is no approval??

BR Anders
(3910 + 3805 + B&W Nautilus 805)

Actually, this is Denons official statement on the matter:

"Denon has allready submitted "Denon Link 3rd Edition" to Super Audio CD licensers and content holders for the purpose of obtaining approval for transmitting the multi channel digital signals of Super Audio CD, and this is currently in the approval process."

Thus, it's not Sony but the myriad of content owners which has licenses SACD which must approve the solution offered by Denon.

I bet we start to see the D link disappearing on future product. I was disappointed to see it on the 3805. That should have been an IEEE 1394 receiver.

Originally posted by Larry Geller
It does upsample CDs (and everything else, except for HDCDs, where the HDCD decoder locks out the AL24). Analog out only. BTW, it also doesn't upsample SACDs. They stay in DSD & the AL24 light goes out.

Originally posted by Tom Grooms
I bet we start to see the D link disappearing on future product. I was disappointed to see it on the 3805. That should have been an IEEE 1394 receiver.

Absolutely. The $1000 Pioneers have IEEE 1394 don't they? I also agree that Denon Link will be disappearing on future products, it's been going on almost 2yrs that Denon has tried to get approval for SACD carriage. Denon Link is a good idea, but I think they put the cart before the horse on this one.

Looks like $200 price increase rumor for 3910 is true! One authorized Denon dealer says so clearly on this website (http://www.listenup.com/servlet/UpdateEngine/?FUELAP_SITEDBID=SITE%5F%2D66&FUELAP_OP=FUELOP_NewScreen&PAGE_ID=LUPAGE%5F60134&DP_ID=LISTENUP%5FDP%5F21401627&FUELAP_TEMPLATENAME=lu%5Fproduct&). See the first two lines under the section "Fast Facts." The 2910 page says "reserve now for Jan. 2005 at 2004 price!" - probably its price is also increasing.

cant help think that denon link was just a sales pitch, like the only way you will benefit is if you own a denon amp as well. where as IEEE1394 or i-link are a much more open standard. maybe not as technicly good but more feasable. i dont want a denon amp

Last year I started with home video after years of mainly being interested in audio. The DVD player I started with was a Primare DVD30 (Pioneer inside). Lots of serious problems (not playing SACD, hanging, ticking etc).

Changed to a Denon 3910.

This was a real disaster concerning video quality. Progressive looked horrible on a Themescene H56A projector. Noise and heavy macroblocking made the picture no pleasure to look at. Finally changed to interlaced and letting the H56A generate progressive made the picture reasonable again.

My conclusion is that the 3910 is no good for its price! (perhaps not even for free).

Yesterday I changed to a Marantz DV9500. Now I realize that there is really a big difference in the picture quality between players. The image of the DV9500 is crisp, bright, no noise, no macroblocking. In one word "great". Besides this player offers an outstanding audio quality which is also very important for me.

An example is the opening scene of Gladiator. On the Primare and the Denon this looked dim and low contrast even after playing with the settings. Looking at this scene on the DV9500 gave the impression I watched the movie for the first time. Even out of the box it was great, let alone after some tweaking.

This Marantz is a player that I will use for the years to come.

You must have a lemon.My 3910 has the best picture I have ever seen.Much better than the others I have owned: 5900,2900,xp30,rp82.
Maybe you should run the latest firmware and see what happens.

I don't think I had a lemon. The disturbances in the image were 'digital' and I do not see how a digital circuit could introduce those disturbances. A digital circuit, to my knowledge' either works or not. Furhtermore, my experience is shared by many users. I do realize that it may have been the combination of the 3910 and the H56A DLP projector. The 3910 uses a Faroudja and many users have reported the mentioned problems with Faroudja based players. Even Denon itself does not seem to happy with it.

Anyway, the Marantz DV9500 is goooooood. Currently I am very very pleased with the image (and sound) quality of this player.

quuq, the problems you claim are very display dependent. So no, the 3910 is not a bad player, it's just a poor match with your display. And the Marantz should be better - it costs 50% more than the 3910 in the US.

I agree that there is a relation with the projector.

On the other hand:
Primare DVD30: good picture quality
Philips DV720A ($200,-): good picture quality
Marantz DV9500: Outstanding picture quality
Denon 3910: Poor picture quality

So although there is a relation between the 3910 and the used projector, for me (and many others) it is no good!

By the way: Here in the Netherlands the Marantz DV9500 is also 50% more expensive than the 3910 (but still about $600 cheaper than the Primare DVD30 I have owned).

Hi guys!
Bought my 3910 largely due to this thread - and some homework. I've really been enjoying 720p through my Marantz VP12-S2 projector. The PQ trumps my former 2900, I think.

On to my questions...

1. Would I realize much of an improvement by changing from component out to HDMI/DVI connection and upscaling to 1080? If I'm gonna pull a digital cable through walls & cielings, I want to be sure there's a payoff in PQ.

2. Can I use HDMI from the player to the DVI in on my PJ if I've upgraded firmware to -6? (I understand this firmware fixed issues with HDMI to DVI). I'd rather tug smaller HDMI plugs through walls vs. the DVI biggies and use an HDMI to DVI breakout at the projector. Also seems to me that HDMI would be the better long-term connection to have.

Thanks to all for any feedback/comments/suggestions!

-Paul