Paul,

I also have the VP12-S2 & the 3910. Currently, I'm feeding it via component 480P as my total run is 55' from equipment rack in an adjacent location behind the screen to the PJ. I tried a short (6') DVI connection at 720P and the difference to me, was absolutely stunning. A 'softness' just disappeared and the PQ, to my eyes, was well worth it.

The issue is twofold for me, first is getting a good DVI switch, since I have three DVI sources (Comcast STB, Denon 3910, HTPC), second is choosing how to run the cable length. I was tending to go the fiber optic DVI cable route (like this one at http://www.digitalconnection.com/products/cables/fiber_oc.asp). But there are a couple of new solutions just hitting the market like this one from Runco: http://www.runco.com/news_pressrel_pr082704.html which are active DVI<->HDMI converters

I don't believe that using a passive HDMI to DVI will allow the lengthy cable run.

Mark,
What great luck to hear from you!
That's the beauty of this forum!

OK, since my post I've been hunting about for HDMI cables and HDMI - DVI_D adaptors. Many claim to work just fine for longer runs (I need 30 feet).

I've looked @

http://www.bettercables.com/12me3febecad1.html

http://www.bluejeanscable.com./store/dvi/index.htm

http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/DVI_monitor_cables.html

http://www.pacificcable.com/HDMI_Cables.html

http://www2.dvigear.com/

Any opinions/suggestions on these? Others?

THANKS!
-Paul

Paul,

The only direct experience that I have had is with BlueJeansCable -- Their customer service was excellent as was the product. I suppose you could always try their HDMI/DVI cable and pull it from the projector end of the run so that you were pulling the HDMI end. Worst case is that you would be out some work & some shipping. I'll be interested to hear what you do. If I get installed first, I'll post my experiences.

Thanks Mark!
I've had great experiences with Blue Jeans as well and they seemed to be the best bang-for-the-buck. I'm leaning toward a HDMI to HDMI cable and an adaptor to the DVI input, thinking that eventually HDMI will be the longer-term survivor. I may get the cable, then connect direct (vs. pull through walls) at first just to get a look at the results.

If you get there before I do, definately let me know! I'll PM you an email address.

Thanks!
-Paul

I bought a 3190 a week ago with very high hopes. I hooked it up to my Panny 426UY ED plasma display via DVI and component. The audio was sent through Denon Link to my 3805. I popped in the DVE DVD and went straight to the video reference materials and quickly realized that my player is not displaying BTB bars (dvi or component). This was a real bummer and was not the case on my old player which was a cheap old Panasonic S35 and cost about $850 less than what I paid for my 3910. I am also having an issue with the amount of noise showing up in the blacks when watching movies especially over dvi. The player was set at 0 ire with black level normal. Let's see what else...when viewing the DVE color bars through the green filter it is apparent that there are errors but this was also the case on my old player which leads me to believe it is my display. Firmware was downloaded and installed which fixed the DVD-Audio menu problem. My current course of action is to connect with you fellow owners for advice, exchange my player this afternoon (hopefully they have one in stock) and hook it up with a fat new 5 meter DVI Display Magic (arrived moments ago). Silver Serpent component video cables should be arriving on Monday. I'll be sure to let you all know how the swap out goes and I look forward to any feedback or advice anyone may have to offer. Thanks.

I do not recommend this player to be used with Panasonic displays. The Panasonic plasma's use noise reduction circuites in their video chain which magnify the video noise (aka macroblocking), the same way the 3910's chipset does. This results in macroblocking galore....I would suggest going to a different player...either the Pioneer Elite or to a 2900.

Dave

I've got a bunch of ramelectronics cables including a 25ft HDMI cable and a 6ft HDMI to DVI cable. They've all been fine.

John

Seelos,

Try the 7.5 IRE setting. I found that with with my display (Optoma H77) that I could not see the BTB bars with the 0 IRE setting. I can only see the full range of BTB and WTW bars on the DVE gray scale if I use the 7.5 setting when using a HDMI-to-DVI connection. I leave my 3910 at Normal, 7.5 IRE setting and adjust the H77 brightness downward until the black and BTB bars look the same. I then adjust the contrast to set the whites. For some movies that are particularly dark, I find that this leads to too much loss of detail in shadows, so I up the gamma setting to compensate.

seelos,

See my post about 3910 noise and macroblocking. So besides not recommending the 3910 with panny displays, it seems it is also not advisable with optoma themescene H56A. What displays are advisable then?

I start thinking more and more this player is crap!!!!!

I stick with my new Marantz DV9500 which is great and does not have these problems.

quuq,
The player is not crap, it just doesn't work with your display. I have used the player on my Hitachit RPTV as well as a Mitsubishi RPTV and a Fujitsu Plasma with no problem. Also, this is not a problem unique to the Denon...it is a problem with the 2310 chipset, and all players have the problem that use that chip. The 3910 actually minimizes it compared to the 5900, which was VERY easy to see. But most people buying the 3910 are buying it for video AND audio, and all around it is one of the better players out there. If you don't like it, don't buy it. I am glad you are happy with your Marantz, but don't call the player crap because it isn't. Grow up a little.

Dave

Originally posted by Dave Vaughn
quuq,
The player is not crap, it just doesn't work with your display. I have used the player on my Hitachit RPTV as well as a Mitsubishi RPTV and a Fujitsu Plasma with no problem. Also, this is not a problem unique to the Denon...it is a problem with the 2310 chipset, and all players have the problem that use that chip. The 3910 actually minimizes it compared to the 5900, which was VERY easy to see. But most people buying the 3910 are buying it for video AND audio, and all around it is one of the better players out there. If you don't like it, don't buy it. I am glad you are happy with your Marantz, but don't call the player crap because it isn't. Grow up a little.

Dave

It also works great with DLPs (it blows my old player away). As it is, it was quite expensive. I cannot justify the additional price of the Onkyo or Marantz (50% higher price) for marginal improvement, at least with my display.

Dave,

Do not take my feelings about the 3910 personal :)

I agree that the problem is with the 2310 but... who cares, having a 3910 I can not replace this chip. For me Denon made a wrong decission using this chip since many users are harmed by the problems I have.

and... for me audio is even more important than video and even here the marantz DV9500 scores better (to my opinion)

Bottomline: Denon should not bring out a player with a chip (2310) which is known to have 'issues' and ask $1200,- for this.

They are selling boatloads of them and are having a hard time in keeping up with demand....so even with it's warts...the player is selling VERY well for them.

Dave

Yeah right,

Denon has a good name and with many products they deserve that good name. Still, you can not ignore the fact that many people have problems with them. Whatever the cause, the problems are for real.

Their upcoming flagship player (5910) does not use Faroudja 2310. This makes you thinking, doesn't it ??

Looking through the forums to find a negative opinion about the Marantz DV9500 gives you a hard time. This player is just super and kicks the 3910 in the dust.

After posting my message this afternoon I went J&R to exchange it for a new player hoping that the one I had was defective. They were out of stock so I am waiting 'til monday for the new one. From what I am learning now from your replies it looks like I probably won't even leave the store with it.


Thank you for your suggestions. I will look into a Pioneer Elite and a Marantz 9500 although the Marantz would be a stretch for my budget. Are there any other quality players between $1000-1500 that don't use the 2310 chipset or should I be asking "what player is a good match for a Panny plasma display?"

As far as this "crap" discussion goes, the 3910 is highly regarded but for my display it certainly appears to be crap. For the word crap to have any relavance whatsoever in regards to $1200 DVD player is IMHO....crap; especially because I bought it to match my 3805 which I love.

So I'm off to shop for a new player. Maybe even a new receiver with friewire since my Denon link will now be a useless but costly feature. Thanks for the memories Denon.

Seelos,

I am very interested to learn about your findings. If you have a new player please post your findings in this forum. Like my experience gave you some information, others can learn from your experience,

good luck

"Crap" is such a childish sounding words.... I'm sure you could word it a lot better...

"It sucks with my display" isn't limited to the Denon, I'm sure every player sucks with some display. It's physically impossible to test a DVD player with every plasma, projector, lcd, waffle iron, and toaster oven, out there... I'm glad you've found a solution to your problem, THAT's what we should be focusing on, not "OMG THE DENON SUCKS DON'T BUY IT EVER!".

Also I highly doubt it's "tons of people" that are having the same problems as you. The only people that post are the ones that have problems, it's a lot rarer to see "Man I love this player and have zero problems with it" then "Hey can anyone help me?" especially on a board that's meant for helping one another! I also don't think that every single 3910 owner has a computer, and a specific need to go to a message board and post about it.

Keep in mind you're seeing a very nit picky, whiney, compulsive, fun loving, group on AVS, we all love to bitch and moan and tweak everything... That's what we do! I could sit my mother in front of the free DVD player I got with my cell phone, and a 3910, and as long as it played and sound came out, she honestly wouldn't notice a difference.

I'm sorry to rant like this, but I just get pissed off at people who automatically dismiss a piece of hardware just because it doesn't work for THEM and the others who are having problems. News Flash, you guys with problems AREN'T THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO OWN 3910's!!

*sighs*, ok return to your normal viewing :)

- D

Right, perhaps the exact meaning of the word 'crap' is not clear to me caused by the fact english is not my native language. On the other hand, this form contains other threads where the 3910 proves not to be good for many people. Macroblocking is a serious problem taking the fun away from wathching movies.

"Man I love this player and have zero problems with it"!!!!

That summarizes my experience... I would do it again in a heartbeat.

Right on Daphoid...

Once again...I can make macroblocking very pronounced on my Hitachi 57SWX20B...All I have to do is miscalibrate the display...I can turn up the contrast too high and set the sharpness too high as well and BOOM...massive macroblocking! IT ISN'T JUST THE PLAYER!!! It is highlighting encoding errors on the disc and if your display is not properly calibrated...you get macroblocking. BTW...there is even macroblocking on HDTV if you look close enough...it is on most shows that are "upconverted" to HDTV. I don't see them on my display very often...but my neighbors Mitsubishi HDTV (that isn't calibrated yet), really shows it badly. But, I am sure once I calibrate his display with Milori and have a proper gamma of 2.2, it will go away.

Dave

Dave,

I had my system calibrated, I know how to use this equipment!

The only way I could get rid of macroblocking was with the brightness set to a level that there was hardly any contrast in the movie. With the DV9500 I can set the brightness to any level without macroblocking coming even near to the level of macroblocking shown with the 3910.

Whatever, for me the DV9500 just is another class of player as the 3910 is.

Currently it is 0:49 in Holland, 2005 just started. I will continue participating in this discussion tomorrow, but for now:

Happy newyear to all of you, may the good equipment be with you

Happy New Year.

Denon website (http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/products.asp?l=1&c=4) now lists SRP of DVD-3910 Black as $1499 (silver: $1299 - don't know why..) and that of DVD-2910 Black as $699 (silver: $679).

Have read a fair bit of this thread and am interested in upgrading from my Rotel RDV1080 to the 3910. Have noted the comments re compatability problems in some setups. Are there any known problems with the 3910 hooked up to the Infocus 5700 PJ?

mustus52, Don't know about the 5700, but my InFocus 4805 works properly with the 3910. Welcome to the forum :)

Mustud52,

Based on my experience I should test the combination before buying it. Watch out for noise and macroblocking. Be sure to test this with the IRE setting to 0 and progressive activated. Interlaced there is no problem, but this is not what you want from such a player.

Watch dark scenes in whateve movie (LOTR, Terminator III). Then watch for dark blocks moving around in the dark area, where the position of these blocks change about every 0.6 or so second.

Turn up the brightness to make it easier to detect them. Note that following the above procedure, I have experience with at least three players that show no problem on my H56A, so it is possible to find a good player (hope it is the 3910 fo you, since that is what you seem to want)

MarkStega & Paul G I have a Marantz VP-12S3 and have picture shifting problems via DVI where the image does not entirely fit the screen. Via component everything is fine but via HDMI or DVI I have pixel cropping. One movie will coming in from the left, another movie from the right and bottom by about an inch etc. Are both of you using DVI or HDMI with the S2? Does it have the same issue? As I have seen other people also mention this problem.

As the Denon Flagship DVD-5910 isn't off to a great start I am thinking of getting a Marantz DV-9500 which you would think won't have the image shifting problem with a Marantz projector via DVI, to tie me over until Blu-Ray/HD-DVD arrives year end. Only downside to the Marantz 9500 is no ILink :(

Spizz - Bummer!

I'm not yet using digital (component only at the moment) and I haven't heard about your particular problem. Interesting. Can you point me to any threads that further detail the problem/challenge? Is it specfic to S3 or also S2?

Before long, I'll buy a HDMI connection with DVI adaptor (and a good return policy) and test with it first. In his posts, Mark said he tested DVI but does not currently use it.

"Man I love this player and have zero problems with it".

...for now ;)

I love this player and I have zero problems with it!! :D

720p DVI to Samsung HLN567W DLP
Analog 5.1 to my reciever EXT IN

One thing it does better than any other player I've auditioned is it plays even the most badly-flagged discs with nary a deinterlacing artifact. Combing makes Baby Jesus cry...

I've noticed the shifting of the picture to the left or right occasionally. I figured it was the DVD itself since most DVD's look OK, now I'm not so sure. I'll have to pay closer attention now.

Denons website now has the 3910 priced @ $1499 as of Jan 1 2005. The 5910 is also up.

the 3910 has dropped in price in the uk but you still get a better deal by i think $34. £799=$1533 US

$3500 is about £1823 GBP which wouldnt be a bad price for us as the A11 launched at £1799

My only complaint (so far) is that there is no "auto" setting for squeeze mode. If my Bravo D1 and D2 could detect and set that automatically, why can't the 3910?

Anyone out there know why the 3910S units are backordered ? Is there some problem with the 3910 that Denon is trying to fix or update? Might it be related to the Denon link/SACD proprietary issues??

just a bit nervous about why I am hearing that the delivery date on my 3910S is somewhere around the end of January?!!

hmmmm

mismatched

PS this could not be linked to the reported in this forum price increase on the 3910s??? Naaahhh!!!

It's no longer a reported rumor...it is true. Denon's website has a $200 price increase for the 3910 and a $20 increase for the 2910.

Dave

well my salesperson said that he placed the order for my 3910S on Dec 23 and quoted me a price below former retail. He did not say anything about any price increase. so I guess I will take my machine and run!!

As per Denon website, prices of silver units haven't changed. Also, so far looks like authorized dealers (atleast Crutchfield and Listenup) are still selling at previous SRP.

Hi guys....I just came up from a 2910...I traded it in today..I posted another thread about the reasons and my early reviews of the two...

just wasnted to say hi

-Shervin

Originally posted by mismatched
Anyone out there know why the 3910S units are backordered ? Is there some problem with the 3910 that Denon is trying to fix or update? Might it be related to the Denon link/SACD proprietary issues??

just a bit nervous about why I am hearing that the delivery date on my 3910S is somewhere around the end of January?!!


The demand for these units was not expected to be as high and as a result Denon is struggling to fulfill orders. There is also some latency due to the holidays.

considering you guys can get a pioneer elite 59avi for $850 which has equal video quality via HDMI and better cd/sacd playback a fully working i-link,
HDMI to pass at 480i/576i, whats realy better about the Denon that makes you stump up the $$? I have a 3910 but the price gap is nowhere near as big in the uk, in fact there about the same price, is it just preference

If I remember correctly...the 59avi has a very visable layer change and is even a slower responding unit than the Denon.

Dave

Gandley, The 59avi is not even close in build quality to the 3910.The 3910 also has a much easier to understand menu system.The pioneer menus are really alot harder to figure out.As for sound my 59 does not sound as good as my 3910.My 3910 has no macroblocking,and has played everthing I have put in it since day one!Besides where can you get a 59avi for $850 with a real warranty endorsed by Pioneer?
I think Denon raised the price on the 3910 since it is a much better player than anyone expected. This is just my opinion as I have both players and have compared them side by side.

Originally posted by Dave Vaughn
It's no longer a reported rumor...it is true. Denon's website has a $200 price increase for the 3910 and a $20 increase for the 2910.

Dave

That's rather odd, $200 for one and $20 for the other, really sort of makes one wonder...;)

That's rather odd, $200 for one and $20 for the other, really sort of makes one wonder...

My (wild) guess:
$200 for better product positioning of 3910 in the wake of new 5910; while just $20 to keep 2910 competitive with the coming Yamaha S-2500.

Well i was an owner of both as well and i have to admit i do slightly prefer the 3910 for build and better (marginal) deinterlacing but there is nowhere near a $700 price gap. Im just amazed by that. If that was the case here i would of stuck with the 59avi as it is a match for the denon video wise with HDMI, has much better cd playback.(i prefer the 3910 with SACD very slightly with analog connection but as i use I-link the player is just a digital transport so both sound exactly the same as far as i can tell. thats when the i-link works with the 3910)
Plus you dont get any issues with the 59avi, you just buy it, set it up and your done. Not the case with the 3910. update firware...check. Check for MB....check.(which i do see alittle on 1080i but there no point using that res as 720p is an exact match for my display.

When all is said and done the only thing thats off with the 59avi is the layer change. every thing else is within about 5% of each other.

I dont want to appear to be causing a rift here as i bought the 3910 and would again givin my options in the uk.(just curious about your decision thats all)
however for you guys theres no way i could justify the extra that you will have to pay. if it were 1 GBP£ for 1 USD$ and i bought the pio for £850 i would not want to spend anymore than £950 for the 3910(or $950 dolars in your case). As its just not worth any more. im not that bothered by a layer change.

In the uk theres about £100 difference between the two units with the 868i being the cheaper.

Originally posted by steviec
Gandley, The 59avi is not even close in build quality to the 3910.The 3910 also has a much easier to understand menu system.The pioneer menus are really alot harder to figure out.As for sound my 59 does not sound as good as my 3910.My 3910 has no macroblocking,and has played everthing I have put in it since day one!Besides where can you get a 59avi for $850 with a real warranty endorsed by Pioneer?
I think Denon raised the price on the 3910 since it is a much better player than anyone expected. This is just my opinion as I have both players and have compared them side by side.

I agree the build quality appears to be better than the 59avi, but let's not overstate this. I mean, once these units are actually hooked up and in your rack, what difference does its build quality and weight really make if it doesn't affect performance.

As for the menu's, there isn't really anything too difficult about the Elite at all imo.

You did the best thing you could do, since you had both units to compare in your system. When I had both units in my system, the 59avi definitely performed better. Obviously, your mileage may vary, and in your system, apparently it did!

I actually paid $100.00 more for my 59avi than I could have got the 3910 for (both authorized).

Originally posted by jigesh
As per Denon website, prices of silver units haven't changed. Also, so far looks like authorized dealers (atleast Crutchfield and Listenup) are still selling at previous SRP.

how can Denon raise the black models $200 and not likewise for the silver models?? The guts are the same, only the shell is different, correct??

confused (again?)

mismatched

I wonder how much of the price increase will make its way through the retail channel. Although I just purchased a 3910B for $1000 on 12/24/04 & was told by a dealer of the price increase, for numerous reasons, it's going back to the store tomorrow (I'll check to see if they've implimented the price change yet).

It was hooked up via DVI & component to a Hitachi 50v500 RPLCD TV.

In short, the reasons I took it back were:
a)It was a pia to set up. Picture was horrible when I first hooked it up.
b)after recalibration, there wasn't enough difference (if any) in picture quality to jusitfy the price (versus a $70 Cyberhome DVD-500). In fact, my girlfriend couldn't tell the difference (& I think I was stretching to tell the difference to try to convince myself that "hey, it must be better...."). I think I would have failed a double-blind test (the 3910 seemed slightly brighter, a little more 3d like but I'm not convinced I wasn't just trying to fool myself).
c)macroblocking was evident on all DVI modes. I was only able to get rid of it by switching to component. For example, in Cold Mountain, Chapter 4, there is a scene outside of a house in the evening. The cloths are classic country & dark brown. The macroblocking resulted in a fake shiny look to the dress at times and in other instances it actually wiped out detail (the folds of the dress) that I saw on my lowly $70 Cyberhome. Sorry, but for $1000, one shouldn't have to deal with this issue.
d)Green push (maybe) but I'm blaming that on my TV (using test patterns I never could get the green perfect....on either DVD player....I'll blame it on the TV). The Green push, which is much discussed, was not overly evident when watching movies, only on the test pattern. Interestingly, when using DVE with the color filter, some of the other colors were not black (as they should have been). But, when not using the color filter lense but instead using the TV's color mode (it allows you to show green, red, blue), they were black, suggesting no green push).
e)On the otherhand - Pink push. Very evident in the same Cold Mountain scene. The house was a pinkish-tinted grey on the 3910. Regular grey on the $70 Cyberhome. After making some adjustments on the DVD player side, I was able to mostly minimize the pink push.
f)For $1000, I want something that'll best a $70 player on my system.
g)I also bought it for audio quality. On the redbook cd, it had slightly stronger mids than my Music Hall cd-25 (connected to a Sherwood P-965 and Sunfire Grand Cinema Signature). Perhaps a little more forward. With rock music, once a lot of instrumentation started, the differences diminished. In fact, the Music Hall then sounded cleaner and less congested. I couldn't do a completely fair comparison b/c my speakers are outclassed by the rest of the hardware (floor standing phase technology speakers ph6.5 from years ago when they made decent speakers).
h)I intended to delve into SACD & DVD-A but realized that the music selections may not be of that much interest to me and that I'd be better off waiting until after I upgrade my speakers. Also, after further examination re: the differences b/w 2 channel SACD & DVD-A (it seems, like many of the topics in "high-end audio," there is some disagreement as to whether there is a real noticable audible difference between the high bit-rate formats and redbook cd), I decided to hold off on the investment altogether. b/c while multi-channel audio may be great, I was really mostly interested in the formats for superior 2 channel.

Thus, at this time, I really needed a player that was going to give me a striking difference on the video front to justify the expenditure. The 3910 did not do it (in my system).

On another note, since macroblocking is a significant issue, I'm surprised there isn't a poll-type thread listing the player utilizing the guility farudjia chip and which TV it occurred on (or maybe I simply never found it). For the search engine: 50v500 and Denon 3910 = macroblocking when plugged in via the DVI port.

I'm not here to damn the 3910. I'm just posting to provide information for those who may research the player (with particular emphasis for owners of the v500 LCD RPTV). It may be a great player. But for me, considering the price and the numerous problems (macroblocking, pink push, etc.) it's simply not worth $1000 as a video player. As a cd player, it wasn't worth it to me because it sounded only slightly different (not necessarily better) in certain instances than my Music Hall. For SACD & DVD-A, I didn't listen to it.


I'll wait 6 months and see what $1000 will buy me. In the meantime, speakers will probably be my next upgrade.

Chris

Originally posted by steviec
Gandley, The 59avi is not even close in build quality to the 3910.The 3910 also has a much easier to understand menu system.The pioneer menus are really alot harder to figure out.As for sound my 59 does not sound as good as my 3910.

As someone brought up in another thread, the Linn Unidisk weighs 10.8 lbs, about 2 pounds less the the 59avi, 10 less than the 3910, and it is regarded as maybe the best player avaliable-particularly with analog audio.

I like a "big honkin hunk o metal" (TM) as much as the next guy but there doesnt always seem to be a direct relationship between weight and performance.

I actually like the Pioneer's menu's better. The disc navigator, audio track selection are also pretty cool. Its not really relevant tho as i only go in those menus a few times and then never see them during operation.

John

Anyone using the 3910 with an SDI output into a HD+ iscan?

Pardon me if it was mentioned before..

Does the 3910 have any discrete IR codes for output select? Specifically:
HDMI/DVI OFF
DVI ON

It's a toggle on the factory remote between 3-4 modes. I need a one button selection of DVI out and one button for Component out (HDMI/DVI off).

Thanks,
Scott

Great question, Scott!
I'll do some digging as I'd like to find the same.

-Paul

Did everyone get to see this?

Secrets 3910 follow-up review (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_1/denon-dvd-3910-dvd-player-1-2005.html).

Also, you guys wanna check your DVD+R/RW combatability? I just have -R/RW around here.

No problems with -R here....that is all I use.

Dave

I gather this player doesn't play DVD +R/+RW which seems odd, even very old players I have laying around seem to handle +R/+RW fine. Does anyone know if this player or the Pioneer 59avi can play DVD +R's?

Originally posted by Sam Scamardo
Did everyone get to see this?

Secrets 3910 follow-up review (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_1/denon-dvd-3910-dvd-player-1-2005.html).

Also, you guys wanna check your DVD+R/RW combatability? I just have -R/RW around here.

I've been using Memorex 4X DVD+R in my 3910 with no problems whatsoever. I've burned a bunch of home VHS to DVD+R with Nero and never had the 3910 reject a single disk. It's played them fine with the -4, -5 and -6 firmwares. I haven't tried DVD+RW or -R yet though. When I read that article I was very surprised to read that the author couldn't get +R to work.

wow what a nice write up on secrets of the 3910... every once and a while i think to myself i spent a little too much on my 3910, i dont make too much... alot of my friends are like,"YOU SPENT WHAT ON A DVD PLAYER! your crazy! " after reading that i dont regret getting it at all... i know when my set up is all done my friends are all gonna be like "DAMN I WANT ONE OF THESE!" you get what you pay for....







my set up: infocus sp 4805 projector, 92" dalite high power screen, denon avr 3805, denon dvd 3910, infinity interlude il 50 towers x4 2 front and 2 rears, infinity il36c center channel, infinity intermezzo 12.s subwoofer

last pieces i didnt get yet, infinity il10 for 7.1, panasonic plasma for daytime viewing probably 42"

David what is your address and when is your house empty for long stretches of time?

Originally posted by uzun
I gather this player doesn't play DVD +R/+RW which seems odd, even very old players I have laying around seem to handle +R/+RW fine. Does anyone know if this player or the Pioneer 59avi can play DVD +R's?

Actually, I currently cannot get my 59avi to play -R's! :mad:

The 59avi's manual clearly states that the unit should play -R's fine. I have tried at least for different disc's, and they all do the same thing: it plays the first 10 to 15 seconds, then the unit just stops. The time counter will stop about 4 or 5 seconds before the entire disc stops playing.

Hey Rob,

How come you have the same sig. as nothru22? Has he been copying you? Seems kinda cold someone would do that, after all it's not that funny.



















Just kidding!!! I saw you request to plagiarize:) :)

Scott

:D

Originally posted by Sam Scamardo
Did everyone get to see this?

Secrets 3910 follow-up review (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_1/denon-dvd-3910-dvd-player-1-2005.html).

Also, you guys wanna check your DVD+R/RW combatability? I just have -R/RW around here.
No problem with DVD+ or - with my 3910...could it be a firmware issue? Nah...mine has been playing +/-R since before I upgraded from -3.

Great article nevertheless.

Maybe the laser in his player won't pick up the +R for some reason. My old 5900 wouldn't play a couple of discs that my 3910 plays with no problem.

Dave

PS Has anyone tried burning CD Tracks onto a DVD disc to have multiple hours of CD quality sound instead of MP3's onto a regular CD?

Originally posted by Dave Vaughn
Maybe the laser in his player won't pick up the +R for some reason. My old 5900 wouldn't play a couple of discs that my 3910 plays with no problem.

Dave

PS Has anyone tried burning CD Tracks onto a DVD disc to have multiple hours of CD quality sound instead of MP3's onto a regular CD? Not DVDs, but CD-Roms...about 10 hours worth of music on a CD that sounded pretty good too! ;) Of course, the DVD-A sounds loads better! :D

Digital...that is with MP3's though...I want to take the PCM tracks of CD's and put them onto a DVD in order to have a higher quality...I hate the sound of MP3's...they sound like crap to me :-)

Dave

Originally posted by Sam Scamardo
Did everyone get to see this?

Secrets 3910 follow-up review (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_1/denon-dvd-3910-dvd-player-1-2005.html).

Also, you guys wanna check your DVD+R/RW combatability? I just have -R/RW around here.

Excellent read!!!!:cool:

It was an EXACT replica of my findings with the 2900..... I was somewhat dissappointed in the 2910 (as compared to the 2900), but once I upgraded to the 3910, I was happy.

Originally posted by david8613
last pieces i didnt get yet, infinity il10 for 7.1, panasonic plasma for daytime viewing probably 42"

give the new Samsung HLPxx74s a look see. I compared the 46 model side by side in a high end Av store and the 74 was equal or better on several inputs than two Plasmas, one a Fujitsu, the other brand I cant recall as of now. the 46 in 74 was much less expensive.

Dave-

Sorry about that, I misunderstood you. I agree that .mp3s sound like crap. My main use for mp3s is recording streaming audio. I then archive it to DVD.

I have never ripping PCMs to record to DVD, but I think that's a great idea! Maximum audio quality with multiple hours on a disc. :cool:

I've thought about that for a while, but have been to lazy to give it a try. Whats the worst that could happen? An hour or so wasted!

Dave

not thru 22 my house is never alone but if would like to come over and watch something with my me and my 90 lb pit named storm sounds good to me lol...on the secrets review and also on my latest issue of sound and vision there is no mention at all of the green push over dvi, and also they dont mention the fact that you cant play sacd over denon link, unless they got an upgrade thats not avaible to us yet. i think these are issues that are more important verses the problem of playing certain dvd+r...whats up with that?

Ok I know this thread is probably prone to "localisation of problem postings", but considering I'm not huge into the audio side of things (yeah I'd like DVD-A/SACD at some point, but I know my primary listening is my mp3 collection.... i.e. I'm not expecting myself to walk home, put in a CD, and make dinner, seeing as this player is going in my bedroom :).

So taking that as you well... Would you still recommend the 3910 even with it's apparently iffy Faroudja (sp?) chip? Or would you suggest I save some money and go with a 2910?

Oh and FYI I'm going with a Samsung DLP for screen wise, if that helps, also I need to investigate the STB that my cable co uses, but I'll be using either DVI or HDMI for video.

Thanks guys!

- D

My InFocus 4805 has a DVI input set for a computer. The designer posted settings to change in order to get proper colors from a DVD source. How do I know if the 3910 is set for a DVD DVI setting or at a computer level? So far, it looks very good, but I want to be certain I'm set up correctly.

----------------------------------------------------------
david8613: why the DaLite High power? My DaLite HCCV (grey, high contrast cinema vision) is quite bright as it is and some people use filters to lower the 4805's brightness levels,

After returning my 3910 for a 59avi in the hopes of solving my MB problem on Panny WD6 I was disapointed to see that I am still seeing the dreaded MB. I have to believe at this point it is the fault of the NR circuitry in my plasma.

Is anyone running their 3910 through a plasma that is not seeing this problem and if so what brand/ model are they using.

Is there anything an ISF calibrator could do to help with this issue such as disabling the NR circuitry in my display? Even with it's issues I miss my 3910. The 59avi has horrible build quality compared to the 3910 and looks so puny next to my 3805.

After returning my 3910 for a 59avi in the hopes of solving my MB problem on Panny WD6 I was disapointed to see that I am still having the same issues. I have come to understand taht it is the fault of the NR circuitry in my plasma.

Is anyone running their 3910 through a plasma that is not seeing this problem and if so what brand/ model are they using.

Is there anything an ISF calibrator could do to help with this issue such as disabling the NR circuitry in my display? Even with it's issues I miss my 3910. The 59avi has horrible build quality compared to the 3910 and looks so puny next to my 3805.

Should I be shopping for a new display?!$$$

Originally posted by Dave Vaughn

Dave

PS Has anyone tried burning CD Tracks onto a DVD disc to have multiple hours of CD quality sound instead of MP3's onto a regular CD?

Should be no reason why you couldn't do that. This is a interesting little program here. It does what you want and also does a software type of up-sampling.

http://www.eximius.nl/products.php

no problems here seelos with the 25 and 30 series Panasonic plasmas. The Pioneer Elites look good too.

seelos,
That is what I was trying to tell you....you may want to use the interlaced input (component), and turn the progressive scanning off in your player, be it the 59AVI or the 3910. Kris Deering had the same issue with his plasma, but he was fortunate that his internal scaler was pretty good in his plasma.

Dave

I am a little confused by something with this player. I have read somewhere that the black level adjusment should be normal, 0 . I have a 62 inch Mits DLP. And with the setting at normal it looks horrible in dark scenes. Could this be clipping? I read that there has been problems with people in regards to this setting, they put normal 0 but what they get is enhanced 7.5. Can anyone help me with this? I was sent the firmware but havent installed it yet. Thanks

Normal and 0 is the right setting for most. You have to adjust the monitor contrast and brightness with Avia or DVE to get it right.

I agree that Normal and 0 are the settings recommended by several experts in this thread and the 2910 owners thread. These settings worked nicely with my Samsung 5674 which has the same HD2+ chip as the Mits 725 series (if that is what maxvengeance111 indeed has). And definitely install the 3910 firmware. And as scsiraid states, do your Avia or DVE homework to get your monitor adjusted correctly.

Originally posted by keenan
Should be no reason why you couldn't do that. This is a interesting little program here. It does what you want and also does a software type of up-sampling.

http://www.eximius.nl/products.php

It should be noted that this will make zero difference at all. Burning a bunch of MP3's to an "Audio CD" (except using a DVD), will still give you mp3 quality. There's no magic voddoo from taken a compressed .mp3 file and expanding it into an uncompressed .wav file.

In short: Garbage in, Garbage Out.

You'd be better off burning all those mp3's as data to a DVD, that way you can have 4.7GB's of mp3's on there and have tons of music to play with.

Now if your mp3's are of good quality (160Kbps or above) then yeah you'll have good sound either way. Basically this same analogy applies to HDTV's, if you're watching SDTV, it's still SDTV even on your big fancy HDTV, you follow me?

Just a little insight for ya :)

- D

I don't want to burn MP3's...I want to take a CD track and transfer it to a DVD...that way I can put 5 full albums of songs on one DVD and make my single DVD player like a multidisc player using only one DVD disc.

Dave

I have the HD 2+ chip. I have used DVE to set up my tv. But I have not run the firmware update. I am using a HDMI to HDMI connection. The manual for the Denon is pretty terrible so it hasnt been an easy setup experience for me, and I know a little about home theater gear. I will try the update.

Dave,
The program I linked to will do exactly that. Because of the data capacity of a DVD I think you can get almost 6 CDs worth of data in WAV format. But almost any DVD burner software should be able to do the same, only reason I mentioned the linked one was because of it's upsampling program, I thought it was somewhat interesting.

Daphoid,
The program upsamples 16/44.1 to 24/48 and 24/96 with some proprietary software. I've tried a few and I can't really say it's made a world of difference but it does what it says it does because it displays 24/96 on my receiver during playback.

Jim,
Thanks....I plan on trying that software out. Hopefully the 3910 can play it so I don't have to use crappy MP3's.

Dave

Originally posted by Martin Butler
My InFocus 4805 has a DVI input set for a computer. The designer posted settings to change in order to get proper colors from a DVD source. How do I know if the 3910 is set for a DVD DVI setting or at a computer level? So far, it looks very good, but I want to be certain I'm set up correctly.

With my H77, the Normal 0 setting does not pass BTB. With the Normal 7.5 setting it does. You can easily check this with the THX optimizer screen found on many DVDs, but better yet, use the gray scale screens on the DVE disk and you can also check the WTW levels. I currently use the Normal 7.5 setting and adjust the H77 brightness and contrast levels.

FWIW, I just checked what firmware version I have yesterday and it is at -2. I ordered the latest firmware from Denon and will see if upgrading the firmware changes anything.

Originally posted by keenan
Dave,
Daphoid,
The program upsamples 16/44.1 to 24/48 and 24/96 with some proprietary software. I've tried a few and I can't really say it's made a world of difference but it does what it says it does because it displays 24/96 on my receiver during playback.

It sounds at LEAST as good as the original CD tho correct? That would be good enough for me...

John

I have yet to be able to check the firmware on my machine. I can't get it to display properly! But I know I have the latest firmware that is out because I installed it :-)

Dave

Originally posted by Expletive
It sounds at LEAST as good as the original CD tho correct? That would be good enough for me...

John

Not sure how to answer this, it's a pretty subjective question. It doesn't make it worse, so yes, you could say it's as good as the original. As far as the up-sampling, the top end "seems" a little cleaner, but that could be my ears "wanting" to hear a difference. I suggest you try it yourself, there's a free limited download that will let you do 4 tracks per burn. If you do try it let me know what you think. Personally, I am little unconvinced that the up-sampling has really added anything to the quality of the sound.

martin, sorry i havent gotton back sooner this thread sure grows fast. anyway i just recieved my dalite high power this past weekend and i put it up today, in short LOVIN IT! i read a really good thread all about high power screens vs other types here on avs which it showed many pics comparing them very thoroughly, its a really good read. i have been to alot of show rooms and seen many different screens and i always felt that all the screens i have seen were a little on the dim side, whites werent brilliant, colors didnt really pop even though dark scenes look good... i wanted the vutec silver star but its way out of my budget, plus i didnt need the wide viewing angle it provides. for alot less money the dalite high power is said to be just as bright if not slightly brighter than the vutec silver star, it just takes a bit more to set up to get the most out of it. i havent calabrated yet but everything is beautiful. its bright and punchy in a very good way, and blacks are not affected, blacks look black not gray at all. put it this way one by one my family walked in the room and one by one they were like WOW! my father was even trying to look behind the screen for the electronics, he thought it was a giant plasma!!! sorry all for such a long thread, i am just a happy kid:D thanks here some of the threads

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=261808

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=262466&highlight=vutec

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=228371&highlight=vutec

Good luck David. Thanks, Hugh_DaMann.

I just tried my first DVD-A disc and from what I can gather the menu doesn't show up on my monitor. My serial # is 4108400912. I assume I need the firmware upgrade unless I'm missing something here. Any suggestions?

Also, my Denon electronics URL isn't working, can someone post the direct access to Denon's firmware site. Thanks.

http://www.usa.denon.com/support/upgrades.asp

or for a quick response (in general) by email: contactservice@denonnj.com

Thanks Mismatched! I just ordered the upgrade for the Mac and now will have to wait for a week or two. Strange, I just bought my 3910S Dec. 24th and hoped it would be current. The store I got it from is a major retailer and sells lots of gear. Oh well, at least an upgrade is coming :)

Originally posted by Martin Butler
Thanks Mismatched! I just ordered the upgrade for the Mac and now will have to wait for a week or two. Strange, I just bought my 3910S Dec. 24th and hoped it would be current. The store I got it from is a major retailer and sells lots of gear. Oh well, at least an upgrade is coming :)

Heck you are lucky you got one. My 3910S is on backorder and I am "stuck" with this 2910 until then!!

PS let me know how downloading the firmware for the Mac works. And what app you burned the disc with?? thanks you can PM me if you wish

Will do, mismatched.

I got a 3910 today, spent all day recalibrating my display and testing Component vs. DVI on my Sony KDP-65WS550 (DVI 480p offers considerably finer resolution than component 480p).

The 3910 was able to play all the DVD +R, and +RW discs I had laying around, and I have a number of them made via computer as well as a Magnavox DVD Burner.

One small annoyance is that my display does not seem capable of auto-detecting anamorphic vs. non-anamorphic material when the data comes in via DVI 480p. I have to set the "zoom mode" manually, when connected via component everything works fine and automatically. Is this the fault of my display or does the 3910 not send the "zoom mode" information out via DVI?

Other than that it's been a great DVD player, I haven't been able to detect any macroblocking at all using Monsters Inc. or Superbit Crouching Tiger, or anything else for that matter.

The display is considerably superior to my old Panasonic XP50, tomorrow I'll do some audio testing. But so far I'm quite happy with the 3910!

Uzen,
Does your display upconvert everything to 1080i or 540P?

Dave

No my display has native 480p and 1080i modes, it doesn't convert 480p to anything.

OK...that is good to know!

Thanks.

Dave

Does anyone have the 3910 hooked via DVI 480p to a display that can detect whether the material is anamorphic or not, and set the "zoom-mode" correctly based on this?

My RPTV does this via component 480p (even with the 3910), but via DVI 480p I have to set the zoom mode manually to match the material. Is this the fault of the 3910 or the Sony KDP-65WS550 RPTV, or does DVI never provide such information.

I have a feeling I'm supposed to keep the TV on "FULL" mode, and use the DVD's players Squeeze Mode to Squeeze the 4x3 material. This seems a bit awkward to me, wouldn't the material be squeezed by the DVD player, causing possible scaling artifacts, versus just keeping squeeze mode off and setting the TV to expect the correct type of signal?

I compared the sound from the 3910 analogue and digital outputs into my Arcam AVR300.The Arcam has, I believe, the Crystal DAC's that many rate above the Burr-Brown DAC's. It's really a dead heat, they're both excellent, the Denon resolves a bit more detail than the Arcam, but the Arcam has a slightly better midrange, giving strings and vocals a more engaging quality. So far, I'm happily using the multichannel-analogue out from the Denon and haven't went to the Arcam for a few days. The jury's still out, but it's great to know the 3910's DAC's are that good.

bought the 3910 as a high DVD player with an SDI upgrade.
I can't say enough about the picture quality.
(I love the size and weight. Then build quality is a throwback to late 70's HiFi gear my dad use to own)

After several a fussing around with Bravo (bad loader) Panasonic (macro-blocks) and countless other cheap DVI units- I am finally happy.
As far as the SACD/DVD-A I listen to all my music through an external HD on itunes- so I will not use the unit for music.

Can HD Blue ray be that much better thank what I'm getting with the 3910 SDI out to iscan into a 50 plasma.
I don't see it. At least not yet.

I was watching some DVD's last night, then watched part of Starship Troopers on Showtime HD (not a film I care for but it was on so I watched a bit of it). I must say even through component outs it was no contest. No DVD I've ever seen, including the new Return of the King EE, or various Star Wars DVD's come close to the quality of a decent HD transfer. The 3910 is good, it's clearly better than any other DVD player I've owned including the Panasonic XP50, but after watching a ton of DVD material lately, going back to HD there's quite a difference.

And Showtime HD/D-Theater isn't really great HD I don't think. The Blue-Ray and HD-DVD's to be released will probably be superior in image quality to the D-Theater and ATSC sort of material I'm seeing now. And the stuff I'm seeing now already beats the best DVD's in image quality, even on my relatively modest setup.

==================
HOOPOFFICIAL wrote on 12/23/04

I just recently connected my second Denon 3910 to my B&K Ref 50 and B&K 200.7. Both players are exhibiting brief sound drops. It happens sporatically on all types of material (CD, SACD, DVD-A, DVD-V, DTS, etc) has anyone else experienced such a problem. I called Denon and they have no reports of an issue but I have seen some threads stating such an issue. Is this a design defect? I don't want a $1k DVD player with this annoying defect. I am not sure if it is some type of compatibility issue with my Ref 50. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
===================

HoopOfficial,

Are you still having problems with your B&K Ref 50 and the 3910?

I have similar equipment (B&K Ref 31 & 7270) and am concerned about the 3910 I just ordered.

Thanks,

Finally after 1.5 months with the 3910 got around to calibrating it with my Sammy HLN510, using both VE and AVIA. I thought the picture was great before, hence the lag in time from when I got it, to calibration, and all I can say, is CALIBRATE THE 3910.....THE DIFFERENCE IS HUGE....
Also, after reading posts here about macroblocking because of the FAOUDJA chip, I'll be darned if I can find it. Tested the calibrated 3910 with Pearl Harbor last night, and although mesmorized by the picture, looked carefully for macroblocking.....where is it ???? Shadow detail is now awesome, and as we owners already know, the sound is a killer....in fact our circuit breaker tripped using KRELL amps during the bombing scene,
rick

Originally posted by GRC
Finally after 1.5 months with the 3910 got around to calibrating it with my Sammy HLN510, using both VE and AVIA. I thought the picture was great before, hence the lag in time from when I got it, to calibration, and all I can say, is CALIBRATE THE 3910.....THE DIFFERENCE IS HUGE....
Also, after reading posts here about macroblocking because of the FAOUDJA chip, I'll be darned if I can find it. Tested the calibrated 3910 with Pearl Harbor last night, and although mesmorized by the picture, looked carefully for macroblocking.....where is it ???? Shadow detail is now awesome, and as we owners already know, the sound is a killer....in fact our circuit breaker tripped using KRELL amps during the bombing scene,
rick

DITTO!!! ;)

I still haven't used all of the calibration settings on the AVIA, just the first chapter (basic contrast/hue/saturation, etc)...and I could not be happier with a DVD player.
I was skeptical about spending 2x on the 3910 as compared to the 2910 I had, but the more I play with it, the more I am in love!:D

I've just put in the Digital Video Essentials calibration disc and I can't manage to find the way to the second menu system that gives me all the calibration modes. All I'm getting is the stupid primer (Program Guide) . Anyone know how to navigate to the calibration side of this disc using the 3910? The Program Guide mentions a title button which the 3910 doesn't have.

I met Joe Kane at the last Home Entertainment Show here in NYC. He's a good guy and an expert at all things video. Unfortunately the design of this DVD menu system is ridiculous. What was he thinking? I shouldn't have to learn how to navigate a DVD menu.

From what I have heard, Joe is very upset and disappointed with how the navigation came out for his DVE. This was something that was "farmed out" from what I understand, and I agree that the results were horrible. DVE was late enough arriving as it was, and I guess that didn't have the luxury of doing a new menu/navigation.

Avia is much better in this regard, as well as their instructions and comments,
rick, a VERY HAPPY 3910 owner

Use the topmenu button.

Dave

Originally posted by GRC
Finally after 1.5 months with the 3910 got around to calibrating it with my Sammy HLN510, using both VE and AVIA. I thought the picture was great before, hence the lag in time from when I got it, to calibration, and all I can say, is CALIBRATE THE 3910.....THE DIFFERENCE IS HUGE....
rick

GRC,

Are you saying you calibrated it using your display's setup or are you saying you calibrated the 3910 itself ?

Thanks,
Scott

Thanks guys, I've got it now. Awkward, but once you figure out which prompt get you where you want to go it's fine. Still, it was very frustrating. Interesting thing, my InFocus 4805 projector's color balance was perfect, no changes necessary. I mainly set up geometry.

I used "enhanced" for black level. According to the manual, enhance passes below black, is that correct?

Originally posted by scottyb
GRC,

Are you saying you calibrated it using your display's setup or are you saying you calibrated the 3910 itself ?

Thanks,
Scott

Both. I did the color sat & tint with the 3910, contrast & brightness & sharpness with the Sammy 507. WHY YOU ASK ?? Cause the 507 calibration did affect the HD signal from the SA 8000, with a significant improvement. Color sat was done by eye. Answer your question ??
rick

Martin,
Only use enhanced black on a display that wants PC black (0 not 16). If your projector wants it that way, then that should be OK.

Dave

For most displays, Normal is the correct setting, not Enhanced.

I found Normal for black, and 0.0 for Set Level offers the best black reproduction on my system.

I also found that if I switch from DVI-HDMI-Component, or if I set Squeeze on or off, I must turn the 3910 off and back on to get any black detail at all via DVI (component is unaffected by changing these things).

It's fairly apparent in any material, I lose all shadow detail, but it's particularly apparent when viewing PLUGE or other black level test patterns.

Basically I have to cycle the unit off then on after I change DVI/HDMI mode or resolution, or after I change squeeze mode. I'm not sure if the 3910 or the Display is at fault here, but it's a fairly minor inconvenience that only manifested itself when I was trying to decide on which display path/resolution to use.

Thanks everyone. I'll have to check my set level and then see if the normal black level works. I suspect my projector (InFocus 4805) wants the enhanced setting. It has a proprietary computer input (M1) for DVI that requires an adapter. This lets people use different sources through the only digital input.

My InFocus 4805 does indeed have a PC black DVI preset, so I'll stay with enhanced black. The 3910 does look great through DVI.

How do you know if your DVI input is PC black or video. I have an NEC HT1100? Thanks,
Scott

The manufacturer must know. InFocus typically makes projectors for business and their proprietary M1 computer input is a workaround having proper DVI/HDMI inputs. I'd guess the NEC is set up for video black.

My NEC HT1000 (previous version) has PC levels on DVI input

dstroot, now that you mention it I believe the NEC HT1000 was developed from a business design, so PC black makes sense in a way. Why did manufacturers leave such an important thing as black level reference to chance. Most people wouldn't know there's such a thing as PC black and DVD black.
__________________________________________________
Uzun, I'll look at the manual later, but where in the 3910 menu system is the set level (0.0) you mentioned? Just curious, my black level's fine.

Martin - I agree with your theory - it's a business PJ that they tweaked for HT. They concentrated all their magic on component input (sweetvision, gamma, etc.) and sort of left DVI input alone - I don't think they expected video devices with DVI/HDMI to come so strong so fast.

The black level setting is around page 49, adjusting picture quality. You use the PICTURE ADJUST button to access it.

thanks uzun.

Hello all, i got my Denon 3910 about 3 weeks ago & been happy so far with it but had a problem lastnight, when i tryed to watch
"A Time To Kill" on side B the 3910 would not play it at all,it said disc error & would not play side B , it played side A fine??? :mad: "This is a Brand New Disc"

I then tryed this flip type DVD in my other older sony dvd players & they both played side A & B with no problem & i have the lastest firmware ESS-6609-6 & the first two as well for the 3910....

I have tryed two other filp type DVD's & they do fine on sides A & B in the 3910... do i have a bad Denon 3910 or is this a problem with all 3910's with this movie " A Time To Kill" ???


Does anyone have the 3910 & this movie "A time To Kill" that can try it in your player to see if the denon 3910 will play side B with out a problem???


Thanks Everyone
Jim :)

Originally posted by uzun
I found Normal for black, and 0.0 for Set Level offers the best black reproduction on my system.

I also found that if I switch from DVI-HDMI-Component, or if I set Squeeze on or off, I must turn the 3910 off and back on to get any black detail at all via DVI (component is unaffected by changing these things).

It's fairly apparent in any material, I lose all shadow detail, but it's particularly apparent when viewing PLUGE or other black level test patterns.

Basically I have to cycle the unit off then on after I change DVI/HDMI mode or resolution, or after I change squeeze mode. I'm not sure if the 3910 or the Display is at fault here, but it's a fairly minor inconvenience that only manifested itself when I was trying to decide on which display path/resolution to use.

I found that when I turn on squeeze mode, it automatically changes the black level from Normal to Enhanced, eventhough it says Normal in the menu. I have to manually change it to Enhanced, and then back to Normal to get the proper black levels. When I just play widescreen DVDs, it's fine. This only happens when turning on squeeze mode.

That's probably what happens you you go from DVI to other modes, and change resolutions in DVI/HDMI as well. Turning on / off the unit fixes it. But it sounds like changing black level again would do the trick as well.

Have you told Denon of the problem? I have not yet, but will. Hopefully they can fix it in a future firmware.

Jim, I've just tried "A Time to Kill" in my 3910, and it plays both sides beautifully.

I have an August build date for this, my second 3910. My first one (June build) wouldn't play most of my burned CDRs (which played perfectly on my Denon 1600).

I'd suggest checking out your DVD in a store (or someone else's) 3910 and see if it's the DVD or the 3910.

--Ernie

Originally posted by ErnieW
Jim, I've just tried "A Time to Kill" in my 3910, and it plays both sides beautifully.

I have an August build date for this, my second 3910. My first one (June build) wouldn't play most of my burned CDRs (which played perfectly on my Denon 1600).

I'd suggest checking out your DVD in a store (or someone else's) 3910 and see if it's the DVD or the 3910.

--Ernie
thanks Ernie for your time,i did get it to play side B after alot of trying again & again but when it did play there was alot of digital blocks & it skipped real bad,i tryed the same disc in my 2 sony & my computer dvd players & it worked fine on side B, so i think i'm calling my dealer tomorrow asap,the strange thing is the denon plays my other flip type dvds fine..."woodstock"& ozzy live & loud" so i still might try another new "time to kill" dvd to be sure.....thanks again...jim

The Denon 3910 I have is more sensitive to crappy media than any of the other players I have around. So far it plays all commercial discs, and all the DVD +R/+RW's I have burned on name brand (Sony/Phillips/Verbatim/etc) discs. A while ago I purchased some dupsonic DVD +R 8x blank discs. The CD burner I have errors out with them a lot, and the Panasonic finds a lot of bad spots on these discs, but generally gets through them after skipping some data. The old Sony DVD player I have and my computers DVD ROM drive never have any trouble with them.

I've noticed the Denon 3910 has a lot more trouble reading the dupsonic's than any of my other players. The Panasonic XP50 I have has more trouble reading dirty/bad discs than the old Sony DVP-S360 I have. I guess it's the nature of things, some of the more expensive players have more trouble reading discs of questionable quality, or discs that have dirt on them.

I can certainly say the Denon 3910 is the most sensitive about "bad discs" of any player I have. It does not have any trouble reading any commercial discs, or any DVD +R's I have that are on name brand discs, however. I suspect there are some "semi-bad" commercial discs made with slight flaws that would be read fine by my old sony, that the 3910 would not read.

I don't think there's anything wrong with your player, and if you bought or rented a different copy of A Time To Kill I bet it would play just fine. I suspect the copy you have has a small flaw that other players make it through, that the 3910 burps on.

I wonder why Denon players should be so sensitive when el cheapo players have no problem playing less-than-perfect discs. 2900, 2200, 5900 were all sensitive to this and now 2910/3910, too. I think they should look into it because this has been a continued complaint from users. Personally, I had 2910 and 3910 with no such disc-reading problems though.

On a calibrated 3910 with the Samsung 510, AUGUSTUS looks astounding, truely reference,
rick

Would a player bought in japan work in the states its the same model number?

Originally posted by uzun
The Denon 3910 I have is more sensitive to crappy media than any of the other players I have around. So far it plays all commercial discs, and all the DVD +R/+RW's I have burned on name brand (Sony/Phillips/Verbatim/etc) discs. A while ago I purchased some dupsonic DVD +R 8x blank discs. The CD burner I have errors out with them a lot, and the Panasonic finds a lot of bad spots on these discs, but generally gets through them after skipping some data. The old Sony DVD player I have and my computers DVD ROM drive never have any trouble with them.

I've noticed the Denon 3910 has a lot more trouble reading the dupsonic's than any of my other players. The Panasonic XP50 I have has more trouble reading dirty/bad discs than the old Sony DVP-S360 I have. I guess it's the nature of things, some of the more expensive players have more trouble reading discs of questionable quality, or discs that have dirt on them.

I can certainly say the Denon 3910 is the most sensitive about "bad discs" of any player I have. It does not have any trouble reading any commercial discs, or any DVD +R's I have that are on name brand discs, however. I suspect there are some "semi-bad" commercial discs made with slight flaws that would be read fine by my old sony, that the 3910 would not read.

I don't think there's anything wrong with your player, and if you bought or rented a different copy of A Time To Kill I bet it would play just fine. I suspect the copy you have has a small flaw that other players make it through, that the 3910 burps on.

yes you are right uzun,i'm going to pick up another "A Time To Kill" dvd & try it before i box the 3910 up,that would be bad if i got another 3910 & tryed the same disc & it did the samething, i just got to know & will post back with the results....Thanks Again Guys...Jim...;)

Does anyone of you if it exists a remote control code to toggle the "squeeze mode" ? (I have a programmable remote).

I could not find any simple way to toggle the "squeeze" mode from the remote control other than going to setup to do it.

Thanks.

Sorry, no "squeeze mode" button on the remote.

What about setting up a macro that toggles the squeeze mode? It may not be the most efficient way to do this, but it may be effective.

Jason

Perhaps Denon could provide some remote codes that would let people with programmable remotes have a 'Squeeze' button.

What you must ask is 'Why no Squeeze' button in the first place????

J.

Originally posted by Jim1961
Hello all, i got my Denon 3910 about 3 weeks ago & been happy so far with it but had a problem lastnight, when i tryed to watch
"A Time To Kill" on side B the 3910 would not play it at all,it said disc error & would not play side B , it played side A fine??? :mad: "This is a Brand New Disc"

I then tryed this flip type DVD in my other older sony dvd players & they both played side A & B with no problem & i have the lastest firmware ESS-6609-6 & the first two as well for the 3910....

I have tryed two other filp type DVD's & they do fine on sides A & B in the 3910... do i have a bad Denon 3910 or is this a problem with all 3910's with this movie " A Time To Kill" ???


Does anyone have the 3910 & this movie "A time To Kill" that can try it in your player to see if the denon 3910 will play side B with out a problem???


Thanks Everyone
Jim :)

UPDATE: ok thanks to uzun,Ernie & other very helpfull people on this forum ;) i went out & picked up another copy of " A Time To Kill" DVD & it works like a charm on side B in my Denon DVD-3910 so that goes to show you that some dvd's are not the same,i'm a happy 3910 owner now :D thanks to this forum,thanks again uzun,Ernie & others for the help...;) Jim:)

Originally posted by J SLAYZ

What you must ask is 'Why no Squeeze' button in the first place????

J.

For a DVD play at this price point, Denon should have provided something that would detect anamorphic or non-anamorphic video and do an auto-squeeze if needed.

I agree. Even Bravos do this.

The 3910 does detect anamorphic/non-anamorphic over component causing my TV to auto-switch to the correct zoom mode, but not over DVI 480p as far as I can tell. I wasn't sure if it was the fault of the player or the TV in that regard. Are you saying the Bravo D1 sends the information to the TV over DVI 480p, and the 3910 doesn't?

Just got a new SW update from Denon. Have not the time to install it yet. Does it fix this problem?
rick

Originally posted by GRC
Just got a new SW update from Denon. Have not the time to install it yet. Does it fix this problem?
rick

Not likely. Can you confirm what version they sent you? You may have to upgrade your machine first to tell us.

I bought my 3910 around 6 weeks ago and thought some might be interested in my experience with my setup.
In short words, I'm very happy and amazed by the video and audio quality the 3910 delivers.

My setup:
Denon 3910
Sony VPL-HS10
Projecta ProCinema 16:9 screen 117x200cm
10m HDMI-DVI Lindy cable
Yamaha AX-V630 AV receiver
AVM Evolution A2 stereo amp
2 x Piega P5 LTD front speaker
2 x Piega P4 L rear
No center, no sub, no rear center speaker


The 3910 is connected to the DVI input of my HS10, using 1080i. Reason for 1080i is that I need nearly max H keystone correction of the HS10 and with 1080i I can correct a bigger angle than with 720p (don't ask me why). PQ seems to be the same for my eyes for 1080i and 720p, 476p is clearly worse. The cheapo 10m HDMI-DVI Lindy cable works perfectly well also for 1080i.

I calibrated the picture as far as possible with DVE PAL. Picture quality is outstanding. DPIC does an incredible job and creates an ultra sharp but still natural picture (usually I keep it on +3). Seems like I have much more shadow detail on my not-so-contrast-rich HS10 than before (Panasonic A160 over S-Video). People, objects have more depth, everything looks more natural, e.g. wet roads (in Training Day) look really wet and it seems like my eyes can now catch far more details per scene than before. I've now seen things in movies I've never seen before. And I'm sure that with a native 720p projector with better contrast this will even improve further.

From my setup you can see that stereo sound is more important to me than surround (also have a separate CD player). However, I bought some SACDs (Depeche Mode - 101, Pink Floyd - DSOTM, Mozart - Requiem) and I am deeply impressed first by multichannel audio in general and second by the audio quality the 3910 delivers. Although I'm kind of audiophile, I'm not the "ultra-freak" who cares about every detail. Even more I was surprised that I could clearly hear a difference when listening to SACDs in Pure Direct "Normal" mode (everything on) and "All Off" mode (video, digital out, display off). I'll never listen to music in anything other than "All Off" mode any more.

The only bug I think I detected with my 3910 is when you listen to an SACD track in Pure Direct "Normal" mode, then you switch fast to the "All Off" mode, the player will shortly stop and re-start playing at the beginning of the track. It does not happen when you change the modes slowly. Anyway, just a detail I can easily live with.

I´m thinking about buying a denon 3910, but I´d like to use it as cd player too, so I´d like to pick a dvd player with a good cd reproduction. I have a question, can the 3910 do upsampling or have any technology like Pioneer Legato Link Pro or whatever?

Any owner could please give me any opinion if have compared with a good cd player ( Arcam DiVA, Musical Fidelity...etc)

Thank U

The 3910 is excellent for audio (redbook CD, including HDCD decoding; SACD; DVD-A). I did an A/B comparison with redbook CDs versus my Rotel CD player (which gets fantastic reviews), and they sounded virtually identical to my ears.

OK , received the Denon firmware install disk, it is versionESS-6609-6 & Make Day B08, according to the install sheet that came with the disc. Anyone know about this upgrade and what it really does? Does it also erase all of my custom memory settings for picture adjust, since I just calibrated the unit with DVE?? Thanks,
rick

Does it also erase all of my custom memory settings for picture adjust...

No.

Originally posted by eacosta
I´m thinking about buying a denon 3910, but I´d like to use it as cd player too, so I´d like to pick a dvd player with a good cd reproduction. I have a question, can the 3910 do upsampling or have any technology like Pioneer Legato Link Pro or whatever?

Any owner could please give me any opinion if have compared with a good cd player ( Arcam DiVA, Musical Fidelity...etc)

Thank U

I have a 2910 loaner now because my 2910S was backordered. A number of experts on this and related threads recommended the 3910 for its superior DACs and audio capabilities. After hearing some SACDs on the 2910 and with the generally reported audio superiority of the 3910 I just upgraded to the 3910S for an extra $500 and an can't wait for the the 3910 to arrive.

I believe that you will find the Denon audio experience an EXPERIENCE!

mismatched

Originally posted by mismatched
I have a 2910 loaner now because my 2910S was backordered. A number of experts on this and related threads recommended the 3910 for its superior DACs and audio capabilities. After hearing some SACDs on the 2910 and with the generally reported audio superiority of the 3910 I just upgraded to the 3910S for an extra $500 and an can't wait for the the 3910 to arrive.

I believe that you will find the Denon audio experience an EXPERIENCE!

mismatched

There's no doubt you would be making a better choice with the 3910, the audio is superb. I was skeptical at first and didn't know weather I could justify the extra $$ but I have no regrets. I am a video, 2 channel and multi channel guy and thanks to BillP and along with others on this forum I'm a happy camper. Heck, even my other half is happy and she even knows what it cost me (us if she's reading this).
:D

eacosta- "Any owner could please give me any opinion if have compared with a good cd player ( Arcam DiVA, Musical Fidelity...etc)""
_____________________________________________
I own the Arcam AVR300 and desperately wanted to buy the matching DV79 DVD player. I love what Arcam does musically. I sold my high end ($6000) Musical Fidelity gear to simplify my system for a new apartment and to my surprise the Arcam actually sounded better than my Musical Fidelity set up. I decided to buy the 3910 because I wanted SACD and a better deinterlacer than the one used in the DV79. My current projector has great deinterlacing so I would have been OK with the DV79 but if I changed projectors for one without such great deinterlacing I'd be stuck with the mediocre Vladdis 5 in the Arcam.

I've heard the DV79 and it sounds different and perhaps a little better than the Denon 3910. The 3910 has a greater amount of detail resolution and a strong low end. The Arcam is more 3 dimensional, especially in the crucial midrange where the vocals and strings are. As a long time audiophile I'm satisfied with the compromise of the Denon when compared to really high end gear. It's voicing might be characterized as "solid and weighty". Is it truly up there with companies like Classe, Naim, DCS ? no, is it as good as it gets under $1000 with all the right DVD features, yes. I think you'll be satisfied with the 3910.

So, speaking of audio, how many decode Dolby Digital through the 3910 using analog vs. sending a digital signal to your Receiver or Pre-amp?

I do

Depends on you pre amp. With the KRELL HTS, digital sounds better, but again it is a high end processor,
rick

Originally posted by ReeseG
So, speaking of audio, how many decode Dolby Digital through the 3910 using analog vs. sending a digital signal to your Receiver or Pre-amp?

I let my 3910 decode ALL formats via the analog outputs. It sounds better on DD/DTS than feeding the coax signal to my Lexicon DC-1 processor.

Interesting. I haven't tried analog yet, but intend to this evening.

Thanks for the input.

I have a 3805 and the 3910. At this point I'm just using Denonlink in order to get the auto room EQ and room level settings it has. I've tried to match them using the speaker level/distance on the 3910 but I haven't liked the results with everything. I imagine once I tweak things more on the 3910 I will turn off denonlink and use the 3910 more.

With a lot of material, particularly DVD-A's the 3910 does sound better, but with a lot of CD's I prefer what I'm getting with the 3805 due to the room EQ. With movies as well I think I like what I'm hearing out of the 3805 better, due to equalization. So for a long time I was turning off denonlink for DVD-A's and keeping it on for everything else, finally I've just given up and am using the 3805, but I imagine once I get things setup right I'll probably go back to using the 3910.

What are the 3910s problems?

Is it a good player to use for feeding a 720p upconverted DVD movie to a JVC D-ILA display?

I was about to mark most of my DVD +RW's as marginal, since they couldn't be read by the 3910 when I found that if I burn them at 2.4x instead of 4x the 3910 reads them fine (the DVD +RW's are rated at 4x, as is my burner). Other DVD players seem to read them reliably regardless, and I can burn DVD +R's rated at 16x at 16x and the 3910 can read them just fine. For some reason if I burn a DVD +RW at 4x though, the 3910 will not read them (for the most part, occasionally one will burn at 4x that the 3910 will read but burning at 4x is not reliable, at 2.4x burn speed they always seem to read reliably).

Just a tip I guess, if your 3910 can't seem to read discs made via your DVD burner, back down the write speed it can make a difference.

Any problems will be outlined here in the problems thread. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=466181&perpage=20&pagenumber=1)

As long as your display can accept a DVI or HDMI signal you could enjoy 720p output from the 3910.
It DOES NOT send the upscaled resolutions over it's component video outputs, maximum 480p/576p depending where you are.

I hope this is what you require.

J

Originally posted by ReeseG
So, speaking of audio, how many decode Dolby Digital through the 3910 using analog vs. sending a digital signal to your Receiver or Pre-amp?

Analog MULTI-Channel all the way...
I even run redbook 2-ch audio through analog..

In case you're wondering I'm using a Rotel 1066 Pre-Pro and the 3910 sound superb through analog MULTI-Channel, I rarely use the Rotel's DAC's.
:)

I bought the Denon for the upscale to 720p feature.
Last night I hooked up a HDMI to DVI cable from the Denon into my Plasma and the picture had major noise and macroblocks against black screen.

Anyone else see this?

I just upgraded the firmware to 6609-6, and am I imagining it, but the DVI picture looks even better, especially in dark scenes. Blacks seem to be blacker, and flesh tones more natural. Anyone else notice this ?
rick

Can Anyone Help Me?

I’ve had the Denon 3910 Universal Player for a month now, and all was well until I tried to insert a CD preparatory to my Uncle, Aunt, and brother coming over to view a DVD to show off our new home theater. By somebody’s Law of Unfavorable Outcomes, the tray opened normally, but upon pushing the Open/Close button to load the CD, it danced a short jig, and then stayed put, not closing, and not loading the disc. I could manually push the tray in ever-so-gently, but the disc wasn't recognized. So no DVD showing, no CD playing, that night, or since. If after manually closing the tray I again push the Open/Close Tray button, it opens normally again, “Loading” appears in the text window, the tray does a short little jig again and then comes to rest in the opened position; but when I insert a disc and push the Open/Close button, the same little jig occurs without closing the tray or loading the disc.

I’ve peered inside, nothing seems jammed, and I’ve done all I know to do. HELP!

P.S.: I hope this is the proper forum to post to, and I apologize if it's not. Please excuse me if this has already been discussed, as I tried a forum search and nothing relevant popped up, and I haven't had time to read the prior 1418 posts.

Brian Johnson

1. What type of CD is it?

2. Did you try re-initializing the player? Manual describes how to re-initialize it; but your custom settings will be gone.

Try unplugging the power cord for a minute and then plug it back in and turn it on.

Brian,
Contact your dealer and get a new unit. This one seems to have a drive failure of some sort.

Dave

Hello All,

Just recently retired my Samsung 938 for a Denon 3910. I have it paired up with a Yamaha DPX-1000 projector, hooked up through the DVI port.

Anybody out there has a similar set-up? Just wondering how you set-up the Video, since both the Yamaha and the Denon give you a slew of calibration possibilities.

Though, a vast improvement over the Samsung, I have noticed a seeming lack of sharpness in the picture, and a dimness.

I have set the Denon at default settings (will Normal black level), viewing at 720p.

The Yamaha is set with the following:
Black Level = -6
White Level = -2
Gamma = B
Hue = 2
Saturation = 104
Color Temp = 6500 - 0.010
Sharpness = off
Sharpness Gain = 9
All other settings at default or standard.

Welcome your comments people. My AV room is totally dedicated for Ht, hence is pitch dark. My screen is a studiotek 1.3

electronic70

Originally posted by electronic70
Hello All,

Though, a vast improvement over the Samsung, I have noticed a seeming lack of sharpness in the picture, and a dimness.

I have set the Denon at default settings (will Normal black level), viewing at 720p.



I would suggest that you star by doing a couple of changes:

1. with Normal Black levels, goto picture adjust, and goto "set" and set the IRE to 0 (from 7.5).... Once you do this, also goto one of your Memory modes (M1 thru M5) and adjust the Brightness and contrast using your DVE or AVIA.

2. ALso in picture-adjust, adjust the Chroma level to between 2-3+ (this worked perfectly on my system)

3. Finally, use Auto 2 in your setup menu for progressive mode, and make sure that you are running Y br Cb instead of the RGB for your HDMI setting.

once you change this, you will see much sharper and life like images.:cool:

electronic70, nice set up. In general, you want to calibrate your display and have the source be neutral. Should your display lack adjustments you need and the DVD player have them, go ahead and use the DVD player's adjustments. There's a lot of redundancy to watch out for in A/V. Both my receiver and DVD have all sorts of control for multi channel set up. I always use the processor first unless it's missing something.

Hi folks,

Just pulled trigger on a 3910 from Crutchfield :)

Plan on hooking it up to my Toshiba 52" DLP via HDMI.

If all goes well I'll have it Friday.

I haven't scanned the whole thread, but does anyone know which firmware is the one to have on this beast?

If I don't run into any problems with picture quality on my DLP, my venerable 2900 will be up for sale.

Cheers,
DigiPete

Originally posted by DigiPete
Hi folks,

Just pulled trigger on a 3910 from Crutchfield :)

Plan on hooking it up to my Toshiba 52" DLP via HDMI.

If all goes well I'll have it Friday.

I haven't scanned the whole thread, but does anyone know which firmware is the one to have on this beast?

If I don't run into any problems with picture quality on my DLP, my venerable 2900 will be up for sale.

Cheers,
DigiPete

if you go back a page ...: version ESS-6609-6 seems to be the latest that people have received...

Yup, version -6 is the latest that Denon has offered.

Congrats!

Jason

Thanks guys!

Now I'll have to go back and feret out what are the tips and tricks are out there for getting this player to look good on HDMI vs Component, and how to check firmware.

Cheers

I pulled the trigger myself on the 3910 this week. Was considering the 5910, but figured since we're approaching the end of the lifecycle of standard DVDs, just couldn't see putting out that kind of investment.

They say the third times the charm; having had the 3800 & 5900, both being one of the problem units, I've got my fingers crossed for this 3910, especially since it's one of the modded variety.

Hello ssabripo!

Originally posted by ssabripo
I would suggest that you star by doing a couple of changes:

1. with Normal Black levels, goto picture adjust, and goto "set" and set the IRE to 0 (from 7.5).... Once you do this, also goto one of your Memory modes (M1 thru M5) and adjust the Brightness and contrast using your DVE or AVIA.

My IRE was already set to 0. But as per your suggestion, I found that adjusting the contrast through the player rather than through my projector produced a better picture. The 3910 seems to give a brightness boost everytime I increase the contrast level through its memory modes, so there is no compromise (to the brightness to gain more contrast) I seem to have adjusting the white/black levels through the Yamaha projector.

Originally posted by ssabripo

2. ALso in picture-adjust, adjust the Chroma level to between 2-3+ (this worked perfectly on my system)

This suggestion I also found to be most helpful; the colors and picture seem fuller and more vivid.

Originally posted by ssabripo
3. Finally, use Auto 2 in your setup menu for progressive mode, and make sure that you are running Y br Cb instead of the RGB for your HDMI setting.

Unfortunately, the Yamaha DPX1000 does NOT have a HDMI port; so I am connected through DVI. I am still checking between Auto 1 and Auto modes to see which one gives a better picture.

Thank you very much for your suggestions. I am definitely enjoying a better picture because of them :D

Originally posted by Martin Butler
electronic70, nice set up. In general, you want to calibrate your display and have the source be neutral. Should your display lack adjustments you need and the DVD player have them, go ahead and use the DVD player's adjustments. There's a lot of redundancy to watch out for in A/V. Both my receiver and DVD have all sorts of control for multi channel set up. I always use the processor first unless it's missing something.


Hello Martin!

Yes, as you suggest, I had my set-up calibrated through the projector first, leaving the player at default settings. But through the helpful suggestions of ssabripo, I was able to get a better picture subsequently adjusting the player.

Thank you for your thoughts on projector/player adjustments. It's always comforting to know that we have experts out there that readily give sage advice to us neophytes

Cheers!

Hi again,

I am going to go get the newest firmware update for the 3910 installed onto my machine sometime in the next few days, hopefully this will fix my iLink problems.

And also, seeing as I just got off the phone from Audio Products Australia (APA), I might as well give them, maybe, a bit of a hand and anyone in Australia that is still looking to get their 3910 updated. (the guy said he hears these questions nearly 10 times a day :))
I was patiently informed that:

The LATEST VERSION, as of now, in Australia is Firmware version 5.

In America, it is version 6, but the two units and their relating software are completely different supposedly and we (aussies) should not touch the American version and attempt to install it.

APA, will not issue you the firmware personally, or make it public, for reasons I can understand.
You have to contact your nearest service agent and they will in turn contact APA and have the firmware sent out. You have to then just take your 3910 to the service agent and have the firmware installed.
If your unit is having a problem, and is still under warranty, this is at no cost.

Hope this helps any Australian 3910 owners. :)

Cheers
KJ

Hi KJ

Thanks for that.
Now I know which Firmware to instruct Klapp to have on it when I pick it up next week!

J

Curiously, in Singapore the latest version is ESS 6609-7:-

http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=28934.msg199246#msg199246

This version fixes chroma delay, the DVD-A menu problem, and is region-free.

I would be very careful mixing upgrades and countries. In the US, version 6 fixed the DVD-A menu problem.

Anyone in the US running "region free" versions of Firmware? any problems?

I know ssabripo mentioned how to setup the video modes in the DVD player itself. But it is a little confusing to me. How should everything be setup? I have a Mits 62 inch DLP, HDMI to HDMI connection. Should it be normal or enhanced? what about on my set? Normal or enhanced black level? Should it be 0 or 7.5 ire? Should I have HDMI at RGB or Y BR CR...Is there anything else I should know how to set up? Auto 1 or Auto 2. If Auto 2 is set for 30fps and video why are people using it for film which is 24fps? Thanks for the help.

Originally posted by electronic70
Hello ssabripo!



My IRE was already set to 0. But as per your suggestion, I found that adjusting the contrast through the player rather than through my projector produced a better picture. The 3910 seems to give a brightness boost everytime I increase the contrast level through its memory modes, so there is no compromise (to the brightness to gain more contrast) I seem to have adjusting the white/black levels through the Yamaha projector.

Originally posted by ssabripo

2. ALso in picture-adjust, adjust the Chroma level to between 2-3+ (this worked perfectly on my system)

This suggestion I also found to be most helpful; the colors and picture seem fuller and more vivid.

Originally posted by ssabripo
3. Finally, use Auto 2 in your setup menu for progressive mode, and make sure that you are running Y br Cb instead of the RGB for your HDMI setting.

Unfortunately, the Yamaha DPX1000 does NOT have a HDMI port; so I am connected through DVI. I am still checking between Auto 1 and Auto modes to see which one gives a better picture.

Thank you very much for your suggestions. I am definitely enjoying a better picture because of them :D


Enjoy !!!:cool:

Originally posted by maxvengeance111
I know ssabripo mentioned how to setup the video modes in the DVD player itself. But it is a little confusing to me. How should everything be setup? I have a Mits 62 inch DLP, HDMI to HDMI connection. Should it be normal or enhanced? what about on my set? Normal or enhanced black level? Should it be 0 or 7.5 ire? Should I have HDMI at RGB or Y BR CR...Is there anything else I should know how to set up? Auto 1 or Auto 2. If Auto 2 is set for 30fps and video why are people using it for film which is 24fps? Thanks for the help.

Like I said, turn OFF the enhanced black levels....use IRE of 0 instead. then adjust your cotnrast/brightness/etc in the 3910 rather than the display, using the AVIA disk. Also, you can play with the Chroma settings and adjust to around 3+ and you will have a beautiful picture.

According to a Kris Deering post, one should really never be using Enhanced.

But why do these settings work? Like the Auto 2 instead of the Auto 1? People keep saying to use certain settings over others, but where are they coming up with their information. The manual is awful, and the Secrets site is a little helpful, but it even says to use the Auto 1 in the description, but the test results show it is better to use Auto 2. Sorry for the lame question, just not realyl that happy with my PQ with this player and if its something I can fix I would like to know how do so properly.

Auto 1 is for film based sources; 3-2 pulldown stuff. Auto 2 is for video based sources.

Right, so why is it then that people say leave it on Auto 2?

See this thread....

http://hometheaterhifi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1330&highlight=auto

Thanks for posting that link to the other 3910 thread. I have been leaving mine in Auto 2.

I'm still a bit confused. If I leave in Auto1, and it senses video (or goes into motion-adaptive-deinterlacing) then things should be OK still?

Or if it senses video on Auto1, it just locks into simple video mode (no motion-adaptive)??

Ok, so now that I am confused about the Auto 1 or Auto 2, what about setting the HDMI correctly. Should it be set to RGB or Y br CB?

If your watching a film sourced ntsc dvd put it on auto 1, if your watching a film sourced pal dvd or video sourced dvd either pal or ntsc (such as a tv show) put it in auto 2. Usually hdmi should be set to YbrCB - but may depend on your display - there is a sticky thread at the top of the forum to explain the settings of hdmi and dvi: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=494606

I would suggest turning off all image enhancement features and turning sharpness down to nothing on your tv to probably get the full effect of the 3910's amazing picture quality - and then using digital video essentials or avia to calibrate or even better get it isf calibrated.

M

What about the 3 video settings then?

Hi all:

My 3910 will not generate test tones no matter what I try :( . Would someone explain how to do this procedure so I can check to see if I'm doing something wrong :confused:, or let me know if they have the same problem?

Thanks, BigAL

You've probably done all this:
-I assume you've gone to Setup > Audio Setup > Audio Channel > Multichannel (should be green). Cursor right to Multi Channel (will turn yellow), click Enter
-"Speaker Setup" menu appears. Cursor down to "Channel Level" and click Enter
-"Channel Level" menu appears. Cursor down to "Test Tone" ("OFF" by default) and cursor right to change "OFF" to "Auto", cursor right again to change to "Manual" and cursor right again to change to "OFF"
-If you've changed "Test Tone" to "Auto" (or "Manual"), click Enter.
-If Auto, it will cycle through each of the speakers. Be quick on the right/left cursor keys to change the level while the tone is coming from the speaker. The levels only go negative from 0 dB (left cursor), and use the right cursor to bring it back to a more positive value
-If Manual, you use the cursor keys to move from speaker to speaker and change the levels.
-click "Setup" on remote to get out of the Setup menu completely.

Good Luck!

--Ernie

Why would a guy who has had 3 defective dvd players of the same brand purchase a fourth?

Originally posted by bigalbklyn
Hi all:

My 3910 will not generate test tones no matter what I try :( . Would someone explain how to do this procedure so I can check to see if I'm doing something wrong :confused:, or let me know if they have the same problem?

Thanks, BigAL

Hey Al,

Test tones are generated out of muli-chanel only I believe, or at least that's the way I was able to get it to work. Also from the setup menu select manual or it will cycle through the speakers and it will be difficult adjust the SPL on the channels.

Good luck,

Sam

Badabing and Ernie:

Thanks, I tried that before, but I just tried it again. I get the tone from my left surround only. The funny thing is when I play a move, DVD-A or CD , the sound is output correctly to all channels.

I'm really scratching my head:confused: on this one.

BigAL

I just made a 4:3 DVD-R for some friends. Using DVI out on the 3910, regardless of how I set-up the display, the 3910 keeps stretching the image to 16:9. What gives ?? How can I get a 4:3 image to display as a 4:3 image ?? Frustrating....and it also skips in certain areas. The DVD was made with Final Cut Pro HD and DVD studio pro, and plays fine on the computer.
thanks, rick

GRC, did you put squeeze mode "on" at the front panel?

I have recently upgraded to a new HDTV (Mits 62725) and I am very happy with the PQ on HD but I am not so thrilled with DVD PQ performance. (The picture looks soft.) I have a 7 year old Denon DVM-1800 that I am considering replacing with a new progressive, upscaling DVD player.

So the search begins. It seems the Denon 3910 has the best PQ results with the fewest problems plus the added benefit of great sound.

Do you 3910 owners think I'm crazy to upgrade to this player?

My number 1 priority is PQ during DVD home theater applications. I would spend less money if I could, but I want the best PQ I can get and no threads have convinced me that there is another player with the PQ of the Denon 3910.

Any comments would be appreciated. (I have the Denon AVR-3300 receiver if that makes any difference.) This is sort of a last chance sanity check on my part.

Thanks,

RH

Its time to upgrade your "7 year old Denon". The 2910/3910 would be a nice upgrade.

Remember, as good as your TV may be, it cant help or add anything that may be missing or messed up at your source. The source is always the most critical piece in the chain, everything else can only screw it up. Enjoy your Mitz!

I have the 3910 and love it. The Pioneer 59ai and Onkyo SP1000 are others you might want to check out too.

Regarding the skipping, I believe you're running into the 3910's HDCP (content protection) capabilities...

I tried feeding my 3910 yesterday into a DVI input LCD computer monitor. It played a DVD for 1 second, blank for 5 seconds, played again for 1 second etc. I assume the 3910 was missing the handshaking required when using the DVI output.

Regarding the aspect ratios, I'd try playing with the aspect ratios on the 3910's Setup menu, not on your display.

--Ernie

Originally posted by BillP
GRC, did you put squeeze mode "on" at the front panel?

Yes, finally found it in the manual, thanks.
rick

RH

My advice would be to go with the 2910. I have a 3910S on backorder and a 2910 as a loaner. I have a Samsung 5674 DLP set. The PQ on the Samsung is great whether via HD broadcasts or the 2910. In other words the PQ generated by the 2910 is exceptional. The 3910 has better DACs which is a factor for those of us interested in superior sound. how much better the PQ is on the 3910 seems to be regularly debated on this and other similar forums. For an $800 difference now in retail price I would recommend the 2910 especially if video is your priority. :)

my 2 cents

mismatched

Yesterday I re-calibrated my Samsung HLN617's DVI input directly from my Sencore signal generator. After I was done I connected my 3910 to the DVI input to see how the grayscale through the 3910 tracked versus the grayscale through the DVI input's calibration alone. At some point I'll throw my HD-Tivo into the mix to see how that tracks versus the other two as well, but for this thread I thought it would be useful to see how the 3910 could impact an already calibrated display.

Rick

Rick

for us non-ISF calibrators can you distill the nice graph to a bottom line??

:)

mismatched

Hello all! I am seriously considering upgrading my DVD-2900 to the DVD-3910. My local sales rep is offering me a good price ($899) that has me thinking...

Improved PQ with HDMI/DVI to my Pioneer Elite PRO-530HD is one factor, but the other is the potential for an all-digital audio connection to my Denon AVR-3805 for *all* audio, including high res. DVD-A and SACD.

Has Denon released a firmware upgrade for the DVD-3910 to enable Denon Link 3rd edition yet? The AVR-3805 supports 3rd edition, but where is the 3rd edition player? I understand the DVD-5910 is supposed to have 3rd ed. DL, but that is months off and thousands of dollars more.

Any inputs would be much appreciated.

Best,

Doug

For that price it shouldn't matter. Audio and video improvements are reason enough unless you may see MB from the 3910.

At that price I would buy it as well. I would forget about Denon Link 3rd edition for SACD. I really don't see it ever happening.

Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it.

RH

Originally posted by mismatched
Rick

for us non-ISF calibrators can you distill the nice graph to a bottom line??

:)

mismatched

Basically it was just a comparison to see how accurate the DVD player is versus "reference," which in this case is the display calibrated to itself. I'm coming up on 30-days with the 3910 and have been less than satisfied by its accuracy up to the point I decided to run this comparison. The Hue adjustment is way too coarse, where one tick up goes too magenta and one tick down goes way too green. The adjustments should be much finer than that. After re-calibrating my display and trying to get the 3910 to match, I'm much more satisfied with its performance now and likely won't be returning it.

So I decided to see how accurate the 3910 was at default settings and attempted to make as few adjustments as possible to the DVD player in order to bring it as close as possible to the display's calibration.

The graph shows that the two track pretty well together overall, especially in the 40 to 80 IRE range, where the bulk of most video information is. However, the 3910 goes bluer in the shadows than the DLP is by itself.

The settings I ended up with are
Contrast set to -2
White Level set to -2
Chroma Level set to -4
All other settings stayed at default, and black level was at 7.5 IRE

This gave me the best results.

Rick

Originally posted by bigalbklyn
Badabing and Ernie:

Thanks, I tried that before, but I just tried it again. I get the tone from my left surround only. The funny thing is when I play a move, DVD-A or CD , the sound is output correctly to all channels.

I'm really scratching my head:confused: on this one.

BigAL

The tone genrator on this unit is internal so if you get one channel and not the others the unit might be suspect. Check your firmware version as this may contribute to this issue and have you tried to recylce the power, not just standby but either unplug the unit or press the small power button?

I would also try Video Essentials or the AVIA DVD to see if you can generate test tones through the media rather than the internal generator, this may tell you if your internal generator is faulty or your connections are suspect.

Sam

Originally posted by keenan
At that price I would buy it as well. I would forget about Denon Link 3rd edition for SACD. I really don't see it ever happening.

First of all, Thank you to Keenan and Mimason for their replies!

Secondy, I am intrigued by the above quote, about Denon 3rd ed. not happening for SACD. Can you elaborate? I have read that some HDMI implementations will support SACD, but only 2 channel and not multi-channel. So close to a single cable solution...

Great forum, btw... :cool:

Best,

Doug

I have a question about progressive mode selection on the 3910.

Auto 1 is the default and for film recorded DVDs.

Auto 2 is for "30-frame" film material.

Does anyone know how to determine if a DVD has 30-frame film?

Also, if any of you have experimented with the Auto 1 and Auto 2 settings I'd be interested in your feedback.

Thanks!

/George

Sony refuses to allow sacd over any digital connection at this point due to copy protection, hdmi 1.1 - available with 3910 firmware -6 and above does allow multichannel dvd audio to be sent digitally (as well as pcm, dolby digital dts...), as long as you have a suitable decoder with hdmi 1.1 input!

As for the prog modes - auto 1 should be good for virtually all ntsc dvd's, auto 2 is for pal dvd's or anything originating on video - like certain tv series or old music videos. If you mostly watch ntsc films, then auto 1 should be fine.

M

The tone genrator on this unit is internal so if you get one channel and not the others the unit might be suspect. Check your firmware version as this may contribute to this issue and have you tried to recylce the power, not just standby but either unplug the unit or press the small power button?

Thanks Sam, I'll give your suggestions a try and report back later.

Alan

Originally posted by djnewlin
Hello all! I am seriously considering upgrading my DVD-2900 to the DVD-3910. My local sales rep is offering me a good price ($899) that has me thinking...


Best,

Doug

Like heck man, what are you waiting for? For your sales guy to realize that Denon just raised the price on the 3910 $200!!! Is this unit "A Stock"? And with full factory warranty? If yes to both I hope you bought it already because if you haven't, let me know ASAP and I will buy it myself and sell it on Ebay! :)

Originally posted by mark antony
As for the prog modes - auto 1 should be good for virtually all ntsc dvd's, auto 2 is for pal dvd's or anything originating on video - like certain tv series or old music videos. If you mostly watch ntsc films, then auto 1 should be fine.

M Then what the heck are the 3 Video modes for???

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by mark antony
As for the prog modes - auto 1 should be good for virtually all ntsc dvd's, auto 2 is for pal dvd's or anything originating on video - like certain tv series or old music videos. If you mostly watch ntsc films, then auto 1 should be fine.

M

Then what the heck are the 3 Video modes for???

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Thanks for trying Larry. But Video 1, 2 and 3 are for Video.

Auto 1 & 2 are for Film.

/George

Larry

see how easy the Denon manuals are to use??? Ha Ha

Mismatched

Originally posted by GeorgeG02
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by mark antony
As for the prog modes - auto 1 should be good for virtually all ntsc dvd's, auto 2 is for pal dvd's or anything originating on video - like certain tv series or old music videos. If you mostly watch ntsc films, then auto 1 should be fine.

M

Then what the heck are the 3 Video modes for???

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Thanks for trying Larry. But Video 1, 2 and 3 are for Video.

Auto 1 & 2 are for Film.

/George But everybody here keeps saying that Auto 2 is for video, & NOBODY ever mentions the 3 Video modes. And why are the film modes automatic, but the video modes not?

No idea to your questions Larry, but Kris Deering from Secrets says the above is true re auto 1 and 2 and on testing I see no need to doubt him.

All the modes represent is different settings of the faroujda chip, and as with a lot of technology, just because a feature's there doesn't mean it's any good or worth having - look at graphic equaliser's on cheap mini systems for a prime example!

By all means try out the 3 video modes for yourself against auto 2 on your display and use what you think is best - but unless you watch a lot of 1970's & 80's tv show's I would imagine the amount of video sourced dvd's you watch is gonna be minimal.

M

I believe you will discover that the Auto modes differ in the WAY in which they decide whether the current scene is film based or video based. This is fundamental to the way the player conceals from you some of the sloppy editing done on DVDs.

Meanwhile, if you know you are playing a video based content DVD there's another factor that the user *MIGHT* want to adjust. Video content frames are made up of interlaced half-fields that are recorded slightly separated in time. Video de-interlacing circuits attempt to do a better job of de-interlacing by distinguishing the portions that are moving from the still portions -- since the best way to handle each is slightly different.

So I believe these 3 Denon Video settings alter the bias the 3910 uses in emphasizing still vs. motion based processing of video based DVD content. I don't know which of them would be the default setting used for any video content that happens to be detected during AUTO film vs. video processing.
--Bob

Originally posted by mark antony
but unless you watch a lot of 1970's & 80's tv show's I would imagine the amount of video sourced dvd's you watch is gonna be minimal.

M I do, and that little "v" shows up an awful lot on my display. (and not just for old TV---MANY extras an DVDs are video sourced, even some older DVD transfers of films are also video-sourced)

Originally posted by djnewlin
Secondy, I am intrigued by the above quote, about Denon 3rd ed. not happening for SACD. Can you elaborate? I have read that some HDMI implementations will support SACD, but only 2 channel and not multi-channel. So close to a single cable solution...


Quick and dirty answer, Denon has been trying to get approval for SACD carriage over Denon Link for going on 2yrs now. When they implemented it originally they did not have approval and thought it was going to be forthcoming by the time they released the 5900. To date, Sony has allowed only IEEE1394 has a transmission protocol for SACD and I really don't envision them making an exception for one manufacturer's proprietary interface, especially with HDMI destined to become THE interface for both audio and video. You'll note that many of Denon's new CDPs include HDMI along with IEEE1394.

I personally have a 5900 hooked to a 3805 and I really don't miss the ability to send SACD digitally to the 3805 as I think the 5900 does a better job with SACD itself, as the 5900 allows for delay and distance in the SACD domain before it outputs it in analog.

Larry as you watch a lot of this material, then choose a favourite scene and watch it back to back it in all 4 modes auto 2 and v 1,2,3 - whichever looks best to you, stick with that - I've read every thread related to the 3910, to try and make improvements to my setup, and your right no-one discusses the 3 video modes for the reasons stated above, so either leave it on auto 2, as i do, or choose whichever you like best!

M

I have tried everything with this player, firmware, different settings, and I still get a picture that looks like garbage in dark scenes. I have a Mits 62 inch DLP, the one that is second best, I forgot the model number, not the top of the line but the second to top of the line. My HDSAT is connected to my VGA out. Xbox to component, and DVD to HDMI. The sat and HDSAT look fantastic. No weird artifacts like the DVD has. Is this MacroBlocking? If so what can I do? I have written letters to DEnon, nothing back from them, for this much money this player should be awesome. ARe all 3910's like this or what it be beneficial to get a different one? Ive had this for over six weeks now so I am not sure if Ultimate Electronics will take it back. Thanks

I just got the 3910, but am waiting on my HDMI cable from Blue Jeans. In the meantime, I've been using component cables.

One question for anyone out there who's using the HDMI output. On page 19 of the US manual, it states to set the HDMI audio to 2CH if you want to use Denon Link, firewire, or analog connectors for the audio. What about coax or optical? Are they - for some ghastly stupid reason - disabled for audio output when the HDMI is video output?

I know such a thing would make no sense, but there are a at least a few features of my beloved 3910 which don't make sense at all. And in this landmine world of digital rights, stupid things happen (see: no SACD through Denon link). So I just wanted to confirm that I could indeed get audio output via coax or optical when using HDMI for video output.

Thanks to anyone who can answer!

Max have you read and done all the usual set-up advice: download the latest firmware off the denon website, picture settings - auto 1, ire 0, hdmi black level normal, then used avia/digital video essentials to set up the tv picture settings for contrast and brightness, if not then thats why it looks like garbage in dark scenes.

M

I have done all of that. IRE is 7.5, but I have switched between the two. enhanced and 0 enhanced and 7.5, normal and 0 normal and 7.5, everything. THe picture is good, its during dakr scenes, you can see a crap load of artifacts, and if this is bad macroblocking, I am not sure what to do. Does anyone have my DLP and have a good picture? Do I just have a bad DVD player? It is my second one, the first was DOA out of the box.

Originally posted by mark antony
Larry as you watch a lot of this material, then choose a favourite scene and watch it back to back it in all 4 modes auto 2 and v 1,2,3 - whichever looks best to you, stick with that - I've read every thread related to the 3910, to try and make improvements to my setup, and your right no-one discusses the 3 video modes for the reasons stated above, so either leave it on auto 2, as i do, or choose whichever you like best!

M But again, why would I use Auto 2 over Auto 1 if I'm not watching a PAL based source? When DO you use Auto 1 then??? Why is film automatic, and video manual? What IS automatic about it? Why the hell can't Denon come CLOSE to a reasonable answer to any of this?:rolleyes:

Video originated sources whether they are on a pal or ntsc dvd as well as pal film dvd's look better in auto 2 than auto 1. That's all I know - read Kris Deerings Secrets.... review that's been referenced many times in this forum to take it from the horses's mouth.

As I live in England and a good portion of the dvd's I watch are pal, I leave it on auto 2, changing to auto 1 for ntsc films.

When you say why can't Denon answer this, most instruction manuals are naff at best, as this issue is clearly important to you, why not send their technical support an email or call them, contact details will be on the Denon website.

M

Originally posted by maxvengeance111
I have done all of that. IRE is 7.5, but I have switched between the two. enhanced and 0 enhanced and 7.5, normal and 0 normal and 7.5, everything. THe picture is good, its during dakr scenes, you can see a crap load of artifacts, and if this is bad macroblocking, I am not sure what to do. Does anyone have my DLP and have a good picture? Do I just have a bad DVD player?

The 3910 is fantastic with my Samsung DLP, at 720p out and Normal/0 IRE. According to Kris Deering, you should not be using Enhanced ever. I have read that the Mits DLPs convert DVI/HDMI signals to analog and then back to digital, defeating much of the benefits of upscaling players. First of all, try using a calibration DVD (AVIA or DVE) to properly adjust your settings. If still not good, try component cables.

Are you kidding me? Why would they convert HDMI to analog and back to digital? But, if that were the case, do Mits do this with VGA? Because my HDSAT looks fantastic. Where did you see this?

Originally posted by maxvengeance111
Are you kidding me? Why would they convert HDMI to analog and back to digital? But, if that were the case, do Mits do this with VGA? Because my HDSAT looks fantastic. Where did you see this?

VGA is already analog, so no conversion is necessary except to digital.

RCA did this early on with their DLP as well, converting D to A back to D, and I believe one of the earlier Sony LCD Wegas did this too. It wouldn't surprise me to see it still being done by some manufacturers, though it would be nice to see it go away altogether!

Rick

Man, so what should I do and where would I confirm this? Anyone out there with a Mits DLP using this player? Could this be causing the crazy artifacts I see in dark scenes?

No one's tried or is using HDMI for video and a coax or optical out for audio that can confirm that contrary to the implication of the manual, this setup works? It would seem like a no-brainer!

Originally posted by Engine Joe
I just got the 3910, but am waiting on my HDMI cable from Blue Jeans. In the meantime, I've been using component cables.

So I just wanted to confirm that I could indeed get audio output via coax or optical when using HDMI for video output.

Thanks to anyone who can answer!

Assuming that the 3910 works like the 2910 (which I have temporarily while my 3910 is backordered) YES you can use "audion ouput via coax or optical when using HDMI for video output."

I DO...

mismatched

PS I assumed that you meant audio output to your receiver not your TV.

Originally posted by maxvengeance111
Man, so what should I do and where would I confirm this? Anyone out there with a Mits DLP using this player? Could this be causing the crazy artifacts I see in dark scenes?

If I remember correctly, umr has stated this based on his looking at schematics of several HDTVs. Try searching his name in the Rear Projection Unit forum, or PM'ing him.

Originally posted by mismatched

PS I assumed that you meant audio output to your receiver not your TV.

Yes, to my receiver. Thanks for the response! :) I was hoping it was just another case of the Denon manual being less than clear (and that appears to be the case).

So basically I cant upconvert this player unless I am using DVI or HDMI, cant upconvert with component?