It appears that all the La Crosse stations have goosed power, as required, in the last week. I can even get WEAU with an unboosted antenna, in a nasty shadow, though it is highly unpredictable.

WXOW was at 50kw or so before the 7/1/06 deadline, and they're still at 50kw AFAIK and will be until shortly after 2/19/09.

WLAX hasn't done anything to up their power. The deadline has no impact on them because they have cited extreme financial distress as the reason for failing to meet deadlines. They have, however, announced plans to boost power before the end of the year.

WHLA looks the same to me, but it is possible that they boosted power and I just can't tell. They had full power capabilities for a long time, but were running at reduced power to save some $$$.

WEAU shows no interest in boosting beyond their current 500kw, which is more than enough to meet the FCC's "80%" requirement of stations not staying on their current frequency post-transition.

So other than WKBT-DT, who do you think has "goosed" power?

I DID say "appears". . .

I can only tell you that my "consumer-grade" signal strength "meter" is running higher on most channels - and that includes 13 and 25. If I'm not halucinating, 13-DT was off-air for a short period recently, or maybe their apparent power bottomed out. I have always had a problem with them, and my viewing situation took a hit a couple of months ago, where I could not get them at all. Now it's 40/60 (OK/not).

I live on the northside of La Crosse and have had trouble getting ch. 13 lately. I use a ChannelMaster 4220 solely to get that station. This morning (Sunday) it seemed to be out altogether. There have been times where the signal on my Voom receiver goes from the upper 80s to dropping out down to the 40s and back again. I have to admit that I have had the same problem at times with the signal from WLAX using my SquareShooter antenna.

I live on the northside of La Crosse and have had trouble getting ch. 13 lately. I use a ChannelMaster 4220 solely to get that station. This morning (Sunday) it seemed to be out altogether. There have been times where the signal on my Voom receiver goes from the upper 80s to dropping out down to the 40s and back again. I have to admit that I have had the same problem at times with the signal from WLAX using my SquareShooter antenna.

Apparently 13.1/13.2 WAS out - I could not get any signal on either of two systems running. As for lesser signal losses, see my earlier post. Any "Ham" or military radio op can tell you all about the idiosyncrasies of UHF.

I just discovered these when I pulled up this site a little while ago:

http://www.terrestrial-digital.com/

I have been using DTV for a while. I am using a LG HDTV LCD with tuner
to receive OTA. A couple of questions to start with.
I think I have seen, but not documented that both WKBT 8 and
WEAU 13 will be going from there Ch 41 and CH 39 back to
8 and 13 when the full roll out happens in 2009 or so.
Is this true? Any experts know how that will effect receiving
there signal at that point? I live in Rochester MN and have
a cabin in Ladysmith WI and wondering what effect it might have.
Now I can get 8.1 perfectly, but 13.1 is much harder in Rochester.
In Ladysmith I get 13.1 with no problem, and I do not expect a problem
there. Occasionally I can get DTV 8.1 in Ladysmith, very rare, but
I can get an average analog 8. Any opinions if I will be able
to take that average channel 8 signal and get a solid DTV out
of it once they go to this? (assuming they are).
Be nice to me as a first time poster. Hopefully I have asked
questions that have not been beat to death, and that I missed them.
Thanks.....

What are you using for an antenna? Where is it located and how long of an cable are you using? Try going over to antennaweb.org and see what distance your towers are.

1) I think I have seen, but not documented that both WKBT 8 and WEAU 13 will be going from there Ch 41 and CH 39 back to
8 and 13 when the full roll out happens in 2009 or so.
Is this true?

2) Any experts know how that will effect receiving there signal at that point?

3) Any opinions if I will be able to take that average channel 8 signal and get a solid DTV out of it once they go to this? (assuming they are).

1) I got my information from Doug Lung, RF guru. based on FCC databases. It looks solid.

2) The signals will reach better, but impulse noise - both manmade and from lightning - will cause some problems for those outside Grade A contours. My guess is that you'll get both from Rochester okay except during thunderstorms.

3) Average translates to perfect in digital. You should be fine.

FWIW, WEAU is much further from Rochester (about 30 miles further) which accounts for your reception difficulties there. No idea why you can't get WKBT in Ladysmith, though...

WLAX Fox 25 has been running short commercials lately that say something is coming this fall. Any idea if their mysterious message is DTV related?

I hate how poor WLAX Fox 25 looks. They're mono audio and always grainy / crappy picture is embarrasing. When I travel and see Fox in different cities, it really ticks me off to see how much better it looks.

WLAX Fox 25 has been running short commercials lately that say something is coming this fall. Any idea if their mysterious message is DTV related?

I hate how poor WLAX Fox 25 looks. They're mono audio and always grainy / crappy picture is embarrasing. When I travel and see Fox in different cities, it really ticks me off to see how much better it looks.

I am not sure, but my guess is that they are talking about the 9:00 PM local news segment they will be starting this fall. That's my guess anyway.

The La Crosse-Eau Claire market will get its first live 9 p.m. newscast on August 28. NBC affiliate WEAU/13 (Eau Claire) will produce the 30-minute newscast to air on FOX25 (WLAX La Crosse) and FOX48 (WEUX Chippewa Falls-Eau Claire). CBS affiliate WKBT/8 (La Crosse) also repeats its 6 p.m. newscast at 9 p.m. on its UPN digital subchannel. Link (http://www.northpine.com/broadcast/archive/news0706.html)

They are talking about either or both of the following:

New programs (some of which they are promoting throughout the day).

Technical upgrades, including 720p, which they have said will arrive sometime "before the end of the year".

Channel 8.2 (currently the UPN outlet) will go to the new network o/a 4 September.

Channel 19.2 (& 18.2) will be carrying the combined UPN/WB about the same time. They have been tinkering with the machinery overnights lately. One early morning I caught them running 720p-wide (on 19/18.1) with an ABC test loop. Not sure if it was locally encoded or net feed. Their PSIP claims "19.2 service unavailable", and it was, briefly, but is back duplicating .1.

Channel 31 has announced that they will add additional channels to the digital counterpart (groan - it's bad enough now).

Channel 8.2 (currently the UPN outlet) will go to the new network o/a 4 September.

Channel 19.2 (& 18.2) will be carrying the combined UPN/WB about the same time.

Channel 31 has announced that they will add additional channels to the digital counterpart (groan - it's bad enough now).


Channel 8.2 will be carrying "MyNetwork", and based on the anticipated programming, it won't be one I'll watch.

The new network on 19.2 is called CW.

Channel 31-1 looks pretty bad now. I can't say I've ever seen anything on 31-3 that interested me, and it's a sure bet that 31-4 would be more of the same. Soon, KYIN-DT in Iowa will be full power, and then I'll switch to watching them for HD. They don't multicast.

I don't have cable or satellite anymore, so it is just locals for me. I have watched a lot of 31.1, so this summer has been very bad with repeats that I have seen 5,6, or 7 times already. I very seldom watch 31.3 since I am not into cooking or gardening or crafts.

So Fox 25 is going to have local news. Oh be still my beating heart! How will I ever stand more of the fluff we are already getting from channels 8 and 19 here? Besides, isn't using the words "Fox" and "news" together an oxymoron? So that pretty much eliminates any 9 p.m. viewing for me on channel 25.

I may need an amplifier for my Channelmaster 4228 to really get a good signal from channel 13 here on the northside of La Crosse. Sometimes it will be locked in good on my Voom receiver at about 90 and then drop off to 40 and come back up again. The same thing happens on my LG 4200A, but the Voom receiver gives a more precise signal strength.

I have watched a lot of 31.1, so this summer has been very bad with repeats that I have seen 5,6, or 7 times already.

Is it just me, or is there a library card dying to be used in elocs' wallet?

Is it just me, or is there a library card dying to be used in elocs' wallet?

That's funny because I just got a new library card. I was at a friend's house today and he has digital cable so I got to relive the good old days of channel surfing. I watched a channel until a commercial came on and then I surfed to another one, staying there until it too had a commercial whereupon I returned to the first channel. Using this old tried and true technique I was able to watch bits of several programs without ever seeing one in its entirety. Ah, the good old days.

Hi guys, hopefully you can help me. I live in New Richmond WI 54017 and am trying to pull in WEUX-DT for the football games. No one over there seems to return my emails. I can get 48 WEUX out of chippewa falls with my cm 4228 without a preamp, but i can't seem to get any digital signal for 48.1 on 49. I plan on getting a cm 7777 to try for the digital one. Are they broadcasting digitally all day or just during primetime. If they are broadcasting digitally, is it in hd? I'd really like to get the football games in hd this fall. (the ones that overlap with the vikings.) I'm sorry if this has been addressed before, but i can't seem to find it.

thanks in advance.

I can get 48 WEUX out of chippewa falls with my cm 4228 without a preamp, but i can't seem to get any digital signal for 48.1 on 49. I plan on getting a cm 7777 to try for the digital one. Are they broadcasting digitally all day or just during primetime. If they are broadcasting digitally, is it in hd? I'd really like to get the football games in hd this fall. (the ones that overlap with the vikings.) I'm sorry if this has been addressed before, but i can't seem to find it.

WEUX-DT is at very low power, but here's their projected coverage: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DS1107683.html

If you're not in that coverage map, I'd forget it until they boost power, which should be by Christmas.

WEUX-DT is not doing HD currently, though they might be by Christmas.

thanks alot. that will save me some time and money (for now)

Whoopee! In two weeks (28 August) you can watch hashed-over WEAU news on Our Glorious Fox Stations!

I can't get Iowa PBS anymore, but I'm willing to bet they'll be multicasting soon. They do get some revenue from the not-exactly-ads-but-sorta-because-they-do-pay.

What else was I going to say? I forgot. . .

Oh, yeah. WPT-PBS will begin datacasting to schools in September. Good luck trying to find a receiver-decoder.

They are talking about either or both of the following:

New programs (some of which they are promoting throughout the day).

Technical upgrades, including 720p, which they have said will arrive sometime "before the end of the year".
I emailed Mark Burg (Fox 25/48 chief engineer) about this topic and he said that the only big news this fall is the 9:00 news. Nothing new about 720p. I am not sure where you heard "before the end of the year".. but he didn't say this.

Unless they are now back-peddling, he did give that time-frame. Go back in this thread for some comments he made earlier this year. There also were some discussions in the Madison thread here.

I'll have to see if I still have a message in my email.

Say-Hey! Good job, WEAU!

Some time today they yanked the radar from 13.2.

Then they added 13.3, so we all had the choice of the same program in 3, count 'em, three, different resolutions.

Until just after the 6:00p newscast, that is. Then they tried to put some other program on the two extra channels. OOPS! All we could see was many-pixeled digital blocks. They hadn't fixed it as of an hour ago.

What can you expect; they can't even spell "article" (see the HDTV page on their website).

Say-Hey! Good job, WEAU!

I wouldn't be so hard on them, Roger. I'm sure you've never made a mistake when you put something together the first time. Digital broadcasting is complicated; rocket science might be easier because at least with that, there's years of data to work from.

That said, I wish no station would multicast unless they only do SD. I recorded History Detectives from KTCA-DT this week and the picture quality difference over WHLA-DT was astounding. Even at its sharpest, WHLA-HD doesn't look as good as KTCA-HD. (KTCA-DT does not multicast. The Twin Cities has the lucky accident of having two PBS channels run by the same people. They put all the "extras" on KTCI-DT, which multicasts 5 SD streams.)

Me? Make a misteak? Never hoppened.

But let me update you about the station in question.

Sometime later, they restored the radar to .2. (with the primary program still on .3). Somehow, they managed to add the audio from .1 (or .3 - whatever) to the radar channel.

Then last night, even though a run-through for program info (PSIP) showed three active channels, and the data for same, .3 was NOT coming up.

With one all-mode receiver, I got "no signal" for .3 (the signal meter said otherwise). With a DTV-only STB, it was even worse. 13.3 caused the box to lock if I tuned to it. Couldn't go to any channel up or down. And they left it like that all day (was still doing it this morning). (At least the audio was off .2.)

That kind of incompetence should lead to the canning of the CE, and a warning or fine for the station from the FCC.

With one all-mode receiver, I got "no signal" for .3 (the signal meter said otherwise). With a DTV-only STB, it was even worse. 13.3 caused the box to lock if I tuned to it. Couldn't go to any channel up or down. And they left it like that all day (was still doing it this morning). (At least the audio was off .2.)

That kind of incompetence should lead to the canning of the CE, and a warning or fine for the station from the FCC.

Sounds like they're testing datacasting (the transmission of private data on the ATSC 8VSB stream.) It also sounds like your receiver has a bug in it - nothing the station is doing should be able to lock up your box. That's not the station's fault or problem, and you can't expect them to fix something if you don't call and tell them it's causing problems.

But it sounds to me like a classic case of, "Doctor, it hurts when I do this." "Then don't do that." "No, no, let me sue somebody for my pain."

To re-iterate, THEY put programming info on 13.3 (saying it was the same as 13.1). Two different makes - receivers - don't like what they're doing.

WPT will start datacasting when school returns in september. We'll see if anything happens to their signal.

Unless they are now back-peddling, he did give that time-frame. Go back in this thread for some comments he made earlier this year. There also were some discussions in the Madison thread here.

I'll have to see if I still have a message in my email.I was told back in August '04 by Fox 25 that they would have HD (true HD, not just digital) by the superbowl (which was on Fox in Feb of '05). That hasn't been even close to happening.. so I won't believe anything until I actually see it.

Also if you look at his post on the topic from back in March, he says nothing about a timeframe, simply that he will keep people posted. He mainly talked about why it wasn't HD yet, and how they needed money to make that happen.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7390747#post7390747

It could be worse. When HDTV was first implemented, FOX said they would not broadcast in HD at all. (They planned to put multiple SD programs on.)

(I didn't even realize that they'd changed their tune until early this year. But since 25 is the only FOX affil I see, and it's one of the few stations not doing even 720p, I was in the dark. I wasn't following current developments the way I used to :o )

Since they must have seen all the other stations multicasting, they should be sweating buckets. I think they are pedaling their kiddiecars as fast as they can.

It could be worse. When HDTV was first implemented, FOX said they would not broadcast in HD at all. (They planned to put multiple SD programs on.)

Yes, Fox changed their tune a few years ago, as they realized that customers not only preferred but demanded better picture quality. They inadvertently came upon better technology by waiting so long - all the other networks distribute programming at around 45Mbps to leave enough "head room" for the station to decompress the signal, add in local graphics and commercials, and then recompress it to 19Mbps for broadcast. Fox bought into a brand-new technology that allows the network to create the stream *at the headend* and then distribute a broadcast-read 19Mbps stream via satellite, with the ability for the local station to insert their "bug" without decompressing and recompressing it. Very slick, actually, and saves Fox a ton of money on bandwidth - not enough to justify the others changing everything at this late date, but still...

Multicasting is a mixed bag. On the one hand, stations pay for programming based on potential audience size. This doesn't change when they fragment the market. They sell airtime based on demographics and viewers, and the more times you split things, the harder it becomes to sell the airtime. This is especially bad for PBS - they're paying more for the extra channels, and they don't have much hope of getting more viewers as a result. OTOH, in markets that have lacked a dedicated UPN/WB station, it allows the formerly cable-only stations to be made available to a larger audience. The station doesn't have to pay more for the content, and the viewers get more choices.

My personal reaction to multicasting is somewhat mixed. I've seen one SD channel piggybacked on HD with good results, and bad results, depending on how it's done. I've only seen one station try to do two SD channels + the HD one, and that looks horrible, as I think we've all seen. I think in the long run, multicasting more than one SD on an HD channel will become rare as viewers are forced to transition to digital. People will choose to watch cable over the pixelated mess of WPT-HD.

But after looking at the weather map and seeing the storms in the north, I know that Ch. 13 will be interrupting programming every 5 minutes to let us know in detail that the storm has moved another 2 blocks. Apparently they invested in some very expensive weather equipment and feel obligated to use it to justify its purchase. Hands down, they are the absolute worst about doing this and the trouble is how often they cry "wolf" and then people stop paying attention or simply change the channel. My consolation is that I will buy the 2nd season of The Office next month. I am so tired of Ch. 13 and only wish I could get the Rochester NBC station.

I can't even get a picture on 13. Using my Voom receiver, because I can see the signal info better than on my LG 4200, the Off-Air Signal Quality for Ch. 13 is 85, but the Off-Air Signal Power/SNR for Ch. 13 is 0/16.22. I frequently have the signal quality for 13 drop from around 85 to the 30s. I am on the northside of La Crosse and using a ChannelMaster 4228 exclusively for Ch. 13, but it has gotten worse. I am thinking I need a pre-amp.

I was right so far about the weather warnings. It is 7:33 and they have been giving leisurely weather warnings. If they go more than 10 minutes before the next one I will be very surprised.

At 7:35 I do have a picture, but not good and it is not HD. The SNR is still 0/17.40.
In contrast, Ch 8 has a signal quality of 99 and and off air signal power/SNR of 80/32.30.

My consolation is that I will buy the 2nd season of The Office next month. I am so tired of Ch. 13 and only wish I could get the Rochester NBC station.

I was watching KTTC because we were under a tornado warning, and I can assure you that KTTC didn't show any national programming from 7:00-7:45 or so. They then aired "The Office" starting at the beginning. At that point, since I can't stand their camerawork, I turned it off.

Interestingly, KTTC-DT and KXLT-DT showed national programming without breaking in for weather reports, giving viewers a choice.

I was watching KTTC because we were under a tornado warning, and I can assure you that KTTC didn't show any national programming from 7:00-7:45 or so. They then aired "The Office" starting at the beginning. At that point, since I can't stand their camerawork, I turned it off.

Interestingly, KTTC-DT and KXLT-DT showed national programming without breaking in for weather reports, giving viewers a choice.

I am sure that I remember it being that way because I checked it out after seeing a notice on WXOW Ch. 19, but it was not on their HD feed. Now, even when it is just a notice at the top of the screen, Ch. 19 will only show their SD even on the HD channel. So now there is no choice.

These stations have the assumption that their viewers are stupid and are completely unaware of what is going on outside. A notice on the screen would be sufficient unless there is an actual tornado. People know enough to check other sources such as their computers or The Weather Channel and can find out what is going on continually. In my opinion they do cry "wolf" so often that people do not tend to take warnings seriously when sometimes they should.

About the camera work on The Office, the show is actually supposed to be done as the office is being filmed for a documentary. So that is the reason for that type of camera work and why the characters can actually look at and talk to the camera. The original British version was the same. I am guessing that you would also have hated "Homicide: Life on the Streets" because of the camera work on that series. I have a degree in Mass Communications and have done tv camera work and so I have an appreciation for different camera techniques, but I can see how they may be annoying or distracting because they are different from what is usually seen.

1) These stations have the assumption that their viewers are stupid and are completely unaware of what is going on outside. A notice on the screen would be sufficient unless there is an actual tornado. People know enough to check other sources such as their computers or The Weather Channel and can find out what is going on continually. In my opinion they do cry "wolf" so often that people do not tend to take warnings seriously when sometimes they should.

2) About the camera work on The Office, the show is actually supposed to be done as the office is being filmed for a documentary. So that is the reason for that type of camera work and why the characters can actually look at and talk to the camera.

1) Actually, these stations have the assumption that the federal laws requiring broadcast stations air weather alerts might have something to do with it. And many people don't have cable or the Internet to check for information, so they're kind of dependent on broadcasters to keep them informed. As for the SD thing, most stations do not have the equipment to insert local graphics into the HD stream - it takes expensive mastering equipment to do more than a bug in the corner.

2) There are two types of transition/shots that bother me with "The Office." The first is the shaky camera. That's just annoying. Even cheap camcorders today have "steady-shot" capabilities that at least greatly reduce the shaky image on home videos - you'd think a documentary for an office would be able to afford something newer than a 1990 VHS camcorder. The second shot that is even more annoying to me is the extreme zooming - zoom in so one character can deliver a line, then zoom out, zoom in on another character. It all happens so fast it just makes me motion sick. "The Office" isn't the only program to use these video effects, and it isn't the first. It's just another in a long line of programs I don't watch because of it. It's like they forgot that special video effects are supposed to be icing, not the cake.

1) Actually, these stations have the assumption that the federal laws requiring broadcast stations air weather alerts might have something to do with it. And many people don't have cable or the Internet to check for information, so they're kind of dependent on broadcasters to keep them informed. As for the SD thing, most stations do not have the equipment to insert local graphics into the HD stream - it takes expensive mastering equipment to do more than a bug in the corner.

2) There are two types of transition/shots that bother me with "The Office." The first is the shaky camera. That's just annoying. Even cheap camcorders today have "steady-shot" capabilities that at least greatly reduce the shaky image on home videos - you'd think a documentary for an office would be able to afford something newer than a 1990 VHS camcorder. The second shot that is even more annoying to me is the extreme zooming - zoom in so one character can deliver a line, then zoom out, zoom in on another character. It all happens so fast it just makes me motion sick. "The Office" isn't the only program to use these video effects, and it isn't the first. It's just another in a long line of programs I don't watch because of it. It's like they forgot that special video effects are supposed to be icing, not the cake.

1) Stations do have a choice in how they handle weather alerts. For instance, Wisconsin Public tv will give the NWS alert and will have a discreet weather logo in the corner. They do not have weather people cutting into programming, dancing around and showing their computer graphics and repeating the same warnings over only to come back on in a couple of minutes to say the storm has moved 2 blocks and to repeat the warnings. So there are stations that can and do give weather warnings without a "the sky is falling" approach and the need to show off their fancy equipment.

2) If the camera work was an issue for a significant percentage of the viewers of The Office, it would change. The point, I think, is to keep the viewers aware that it is a documentary and seamless handheld camera work would not allow that. If you like the story of shows that use different types of camera work you will watch them. If you don't, you won't. I have a 15 year old daughter who believes that any movie in black and white is inferior to any color one. That's her right and opinion even if I think differently.

1) Stations do have a choice in how they handle weather alerts.

2) If the camera work was an issue for a significant percentage of the viewers of The Office, it would change.

1) Agreed, to a point. Most stations do not have the equipment to show weather alerts - even a screen crawl - and maintain HD programming content at the same time. But they don't have to interrupt program as often as they do. They do it because that's how they think they win viewers to their local news - a major money-maker for most stations today.

2) Yeah, I know. I'm getting old. I'm no longer the desired demographic. And I know people much older than me who don't mind all those things.

1) Agreed, to a point. Most stations do not have the equipment to show weather alerts - even a screen crawl - and maintain HD programming content at the same time. But they don't have to interrupt program as often as they do. They do it because that's how they think they win viewers to their local news - a major money-maker for most stations today.

2) Yeah, I know. I'm getting old. I'm no longer the desired demographic. And I know people much older than me who don't mind all those things.

Earlier this year I was called on the phone by somebody doing a survey which was about which local tv stations I watched, which news, which on-air people I knew, etc., but it was really directed towards local news. I bet this survey lasted 15 minutes and I had to constantly repeat that concerning local news that I had no preference because they all seemed alike. But based upon the questions given, such as which prime time NBC programs I watched, I assumed this was most likely for WEAU. I did let them know how irritating and intrusive I find WEAU's approach to weather warnings is.

I find local news to be very vanilla with each station using the same format and reporting on the same stories the same way. They are interchangeable and unimaginative. I assume when our local Fox stations start their news on Monday that it will be the same rehashed format and tripe that we have been fed for years. Weather should be simple: tell me what the temperature is and if it is going to rain, how cold/warm it will be tonight and how cold/hot it will be tomorrow and if it will rain then. The rest is just fill and more than I really want to know and could get it much better on The Weather Channel. How about instead of reporting the "news" stories along with publicity releases disguised as "news" in exactly the same way as other stations with your talking heads and semi-clever banter, doing something different?
How about sending a camera crew and reporter around town and talk with regular people in the neighborhoods and talk with them about what they are doing and what they think and about things that are not "news" to the other channels that are showing rehashed national and state news and regurgitated local news?

Also, I am 54, so I am not in the targeted demographics anymore either. Oh well.

Did you SEE?

The Channel 25-48 News, that is.

Right from the start, you knew it would be extraordinary! (humph)

The set! The SET! I thought they were beaming from the Oort-Cloud planet Pluton, not Oh-Claire.

Then they introduced themselves. (Uh, I know all you guys already.) (There's only a four-person staff: anchor, reporter, sports, and weatherguy. Who is called "Chief Meteorologist".)

Oh, and the weather graphics. I think they are running freeware on Windblows95.

Ah, but I've save the best for, well - maybe not, last.

It just so happened my second set was on WEAU's .2 (currently the "Local Radar", though even with that title it was a copy of the main program on .1 for most of last week - but I digest, er, digress).

Well, it WAS the radar, right up until showtime on FOX. Then, it magically became FOX!!! Yessir, the WLAX/WEUX news was also being broadcast on 13.2. Except for commercials, when they ran WEAU station promos or PSAs.

Gol, I was a Witness to History! :rolleyes:

I feel sick. :p

Did you SEE?

The Channel 25-48 News, that is.

Right from the start, you knew it would be extraordinary! (humph)

The set! The SET! I thought they were beaming from the Oort-Cloud planet Pluton, not Oh-Claire.

Then they introduced themselves. (Uh, I know all you guys already.) (There's only a four-person staff: anchor, reporter, sports, and weatherguy. Who is called "Chief Meteorologist".)

Oh, and the weather graphics. I think they are running freeware on Windblows95.

Ah, but I've save the best for, well - maybe not, last.

It just so happened my second set was on WEAU's .2 (currently the "Local Radar", though even with that title it was a copy of the main program on .1 for most of last week - I but I digest, er, digress).

Well, it WAS the radar, right up until showtime on FOX. Then, it magically became FOX!!! Yessir, the WLAX/WEUX news was also being broadcast on 13.2. Except for commercials, when they ran WEAU station promos or PSAs.

Gol, I was a Witness to History! :rolleyes:

I feel sick. :p

I certainly feel sick. Just what we needed--another retarded and boring local news cast that excpet for the content is exactly in format like hundreds of others all across the country. I much preferred Seinfel at 9 p.m. because that at least gave me a choice and it certainly would be more entertaining and informative than this load of rehashed drek will be. I have trouble enough getting WEAU at all much less 13.2 for some second rate, johnny come lately, local news wannabes. Is their target demographic those who go beddy-bye at 9:30?

The very next day, there was 30 minutes of bad audio. Then 13 pulled the radar, and ran 13.1 duped to 13.2. Then, oh, what the heck - It has been a non-comedy of errors all week.

With 13's signal so bad I could only get them about 10% of the time the whole time. It just bounced all over the place. One minute 2/3rds of meter max; the next absolute zero. I see "translator" in the future.

The very next day, there was 30 minutes of bad audio. Then 13 pulled the radar, and ran 13.1 duped to 13.2. Then, oh, what the heck - It has been a non-comedy of errors all week.

With 13's signal so bad I could only get them about 10% of the time the whole time. It just bounced all over the place. One minute 2/3rds of meter max; the next absolute zero. I see "translator" in the future.

This is exactly what I have experienced. I'm sorry it's happening, but I'm glad it's not just me.

Well, "IT" is here. My Network TV, that is.

Two Different Programs TOTAL - ALL WEEK. One Hour Nightly (each). Six Nights a Week. . .

SOAP OPERAS

:p :eek: :mad:

Their PSIP clock is currently 36 minutes fast. And that is screwing up my box ROYAL. (Try setting a timer. . .)

Apparently Wisconsin Public Television is a joke. Tonight on 31.1 I am getting the audio from the scheduled show about the Chicago World Fair of 1893, but the picture being shown is from an oft repeated program about the national pards of Utah. When I tried 2 different numbers to call WPT I get a message to call during normal business hours. Meanwhile, on the screwup continues. This is hardly professional.

Their PSIP clock is currently 36 minutes fast. And that is screwing up my box ROYAL. (Try setting a timer. . .)

A day or so later they reset the clock. Since then it has continued to gain time - about 3 minutes daily. Channel 8 is about 3 minutes fast, Channels 19 and 31, ca. 2 minutes each. None are racing ahead like 13. Strangely enough, Channel 25 is the most accurate.

(Note: even though the PSIP clocks are out of wack, the stations' other clocks - those that may appear during news, e.g. - are usually accurate.)

(Is that what the CW is?)

UPN appears to have officially died. I don't see any WI stations still carrying it (per Milw J/S TV guide - not the most complete or accurate source). Several other stations are carrying MY-TV.

However, last week between 2-4:00 am, 8.2 ran some UPN programs - complete with promos for the "new CW" - which they won't have.

19.2 WILL have that, and they are currently filling up the entire schedule with a demo loop that runs about 10 minutes - over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over -
somebody please stop me!

Is WEAU's digital signal still having problems? In my old house i could pull Eau Claire almost as good as Wausau. I tried an attic install in my new house and can pull Wausau's ABC in the 90's but CBS is sitting in the 40's even though they broadcast from the same tower and both used to be in the high 80's. I get channel 13 analog just fine but get no signal for 13.1. Are they still throwing a weak signal?

I just pulled in WEAU-DT last night...I got about 68% signal strength.

Buck,
What time did you try? I was messing around about 6pm with no luck again.

Just to give this thread a bump, I was surprised with some of the stations I am able to pull in on Charter with my new HDTV's (Sony 34XBR970) QAM Tuner here in Wausau:

- WBAY 2, Green Bay's ABC affiliate.
- WSAW DT2, the local "My Network TV affiliate" (which shares time with the Funimation Network outside of prime time)
- a digital version of WFXS (Fox 55 in Wausau)
- PBS, ABC, and CBS in HD (okay...I expected those, which is why I bought the QAM-capable set)
- TNT HD....or at least the 1080i picture (no audio)
- The Biography channel (in SD)

and duplicates of a few others.

Unfortunately, no WJFW in High Def. This is particularly disappointing, since - according to the Vice President / GM at the network informed me that WJFW is providing their High Def signal to Charter Communications, and have been doing so for a number of weeks now.
Anyone know more about what's happening with this? (Is Charter only airing WJFW HD in Rhinelander, or is there some other reason that it's being offered here in Wausau?)

Did you try to get WEAU-DT out of Eau Claire? I easily receive their signal (80%) with a large outdoor antenna.

I didn't know wjfw was close to HD (although since I get weau, I haven't been paying attention). Maybe they are just giving their national feed to charter, and don't have the equipment to broadcast it over the air waves? Is this possible?

Buck,
What time did you try? I was messing around about 6pm with no luck again.


I must have missed this post...it is usually between 68-78 strength for me. Let me know if you want me to try again tonight, and at what time.

Buck,

Any time in the evening will work. I still can not get their digital signal, but a good analog signal. I just wonder if the trees around my house are messing with things now. I need to try the other antenna soon, but this one should get me at least a weak signal.

We are having a bunch of people over for the Grey's Anatomy preimer tonight. I'll point my antenna to the west about 6:30, and let you know my signal strength.

Fox 25 doesn't seem to be broadcasting digitally at all anymore. (I know it's not HD, but it used to work.) What happened? I can actually see the broadcast antennas from my house (through the river valley), channel 19 is broadcasting from the same area as far as I can tell, and that comes in like at 90% with a set top antenna pointed in the wrong direction (to get CBS).

Is Fox dead? I love the excuse they used that they need to get money, when they had/have the #1 show on television? Don't they sell ads?

Fox 25 doesn't seem to be broadcasting digitally at all anymore.?
It was working for me early this morning. Their power is low, and sometimes multipath signals cause it drop entirely, but re-aligning the antenna usually fixes that.

Is Fox dead? I love the excuse they used that they need to get money, when they had/have the #1 show on television? Don't they sell ads?
FOX is still going strong. Their Craperoni gets big ratings. The local affiliate is a different story. However, they just added another hour of "entertainment" daily - to 4:00 am (as opposed to infomercials). If you can regard Jerry Springer as entertainment. Personally, I don't want to puke on my equipment or furnishings. :eek:

This may not work for everybody, if your circumstances are different (and they likely are. . .)

Many of us have been having trouble receiving WEAU-DT.

Despite having what appears to be a adequate but wildly varying signal, I have had a continuous inability to receive them of late.

Then something occured to me - maybe I was having interference problems from something inside or outside the building.

After a little investigation, I found it WAS inside - it was the LCD monitor that I use for my second set. Turn it off, and 13's signal stabilizes (more or less), and is above the "cliff effect" threshold most of the time.

I never used to have this situation, but something must have changed.

I have attempted to find out what. I moved things around, tried shielding the first set's components, then the LCD, then both; re-routed wiring, and so forth.

Even if one set of arrangements works, temporarily, it may not - later. So I haven't fixed things completely, but it is clear that 13 may not be having as many problems as assumed.

Interference can come from just about any electrical device. If yours is intermittant - try to think what may be turning on or off in step with the interference. Move things around. Turn things off - one at a time. Make a shield/reflector* out of a large piece of cardboard, and cover it with aluminum foil. Place it next to your antenna, and move it around. Do the same for your monitor or other TV or radio or flourescent light or anything plugged into the house wiring which may be operating in the vicinity.

*I made a couple with large potato snak (chips previously consumed) bags with cardboard inside to maintain rigidity (of the bag, not myself).

Starting yesterday, MyNetwork has been showing up intermittently in Charter's HD tier (Stevens Point). Unfortunately, selecting it gets me nothing but standard def. Anyone know if we are actually going to get this in HD, or are they just teasing?

Thanks.

lovebohn,

Sorry for the delay. I just tried to pull in WEAU-DT and got 86%.

Thanks Buck. I finished up with the different antenna in my garage attic with no luck. I can get a bad color picture from channel 2 in Green Bay and even a nice analog 13 but no digital. I might just have to build a tower and get this above the tree line.

Starting yesterday, MyNetwork has been showing up intermittently in Charter's HD tier (Stevens Point). Unfortunately, selecting it gets me nothing but standard def. Anyone know if we are actually going to get this in HD, or are they just teasing?

Thanks.

If you have an antenna you will notice both channels 7 & 9 have a sub channel now. One is the CW and the other My TV. I forget which one is on 7 or 9 since they don't offer many shows.

Very odd tonight. I was messing with the rotor and picked up WEAU in the 40's which locked the channel fine. I could go almost to the north and still hold it then back due south. Then it was only in the 20's which would not lock the channel and now its gone. Then i did a scan to the east and pulled channel 2 from green bay at 60. Channel 11 from green bay did not get me the digital signal but the analog was ok.

I just bought an HDTV earlier in the week and my roommate called Charter yesterday then went to pick up our HD set-top box today, only to have them tell him that HD boxes are "on hold" and might not be available till the end of the year. Anyone else having problems with this? I know my parents just got their HD box set up a couple of weeks ago in Stevens Point without a problem. Today has been really frustrating.

BigPoppa67--

Where do you live?

BigPoppa67--

Where do you live?


La Crosse, sorry.

Apparently now they're coming on Tuesday, but from what my roommate has experienced, they seem have no idea what is going on. They told him he can't just go and pick it up, someone has to come install it (at least they said this the last time he talked to them). Whatever, I'll take it.

What the hell is wrong with WEAU channel 13? Here in La Crosse I cannot get their hd channel to hold a picture at all. There were times before when it might occasionally be difficult, but now I cannot get a picture at all. Even the analog picture is only ok and is a little snowy. I sure wish I had a better over the air alternative to get NBC other than WEAU.

Strange, I get it no problem 90 miles away. Do you have an outdoor antenna?

My luck has changed for the better since Sunday when i could pick up the channel in the 60's now. I had nothing but problems over the last month but good luck so far. It could have to do with my trees dropping the leaves over the last week.

Strange, I get it no problem 90 miles away. Do you have an outdoor antenna?


Well, at 4 p.m., it digital signal is gone altogether on my LG LST 4200a and I am using a Channelmaster 4228. Earlier 13.1 and 13.2 would show up and the picture would pixelate and black out, but now there is nothing there at all. My antenna is still picking up the channel 13 analog signal.

I cannot receive either WEAU 13.1 or 13.2 or even get a signal strong enough to lock on to, but I can get what apparently is WEAU 39.1 good enough to lock on to the signal, but the signal strength shows as being "bad" and is not good enough to get a picture.

I just checked again, and now there is enough of a signal to lock on to 13.1 and 13.2, but its signal strength shows as being "bad" cannot receive a picture.

When I check WEAU 13.1 on my Voom hd receiver it shows an off-air signal quality which jumps between 0 and 81 nearly every second. Its off-air signal power/SNR is 0/000 nearly all the time.

I cannot receive either WEAU 13.1 or 13.2 or even get a signal strong enough to lock on to, but I can get what apparently is WEAU 39.1 good enough to lock on to the signal, but the signal strength shows as being "bad" and is not good enough to get a picture.

At first I was going to blame this on the usual culprits: multipath or weak signals, but I think this may be the first time where cross-channel modulation is the problem.

Your problems with WEAU-DT started on or around when WKBT-DT went full power, correct? Because WEAU-DT is on 39 and WKBT-DT is on 41, and cross-channel modulation is known to exist at N+/-1 and N+/-2. If I've got my cause and effect right, you might do well to get a notch filter for channel 41 and dial it down. Or you can wait until 2009, when WEAU returns to channel 13.

You can read about cross-channel interference here: http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/digital_tv/f_DTV_interference.shtml

FWIW, I got a lock on WEAU-DT with a fourth-generation Zenith tuner this evening, though it wasn't entirely stable as I'd expect over the large distances involved. But I did get over 20 seconds of breakup-free viewing.

At first I was going to blame this on the usual culprits: multipath or weak signals, but I think this may be the first time where cross-channel modulation is the problem.

Your problems with WEAU-DT started on or around when WKBT-DT went full power, correct? Because WEAU-DT is on 39 and WKBT-DT is on 41, and cross-channel modulation is known to exist at N+/-1 and N+/-2. If I've got my cause and effect right, you might do well to get a notch filter for channel 41 and dial it down. Or you can wait until 2009, when WEAU returns to channel 13.

You can read about cross-channel interference here: http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/digital_tv/f_DTV_interference.shtml

FWIW, I got a lock on WEAU-DT with a fourth-generation Zenith tuner this evening, though it wasn't entirely stable as I'd expect over the large distances involved. But I did get over 20 seconds of breakup-free viewing.

So is 13.1 really 39.1 even though it shows up on my receiver as 13.1? Earlier when I could not get any kind of a lock on 13.1 using my LG 4200a I did get a lock on 39.1, but not a good enough signal to get a picture. Just now when I punched in 39.1, the receiver switched to 13.1. For the moment right now, 13.1 is coming in ok. It has only been very recently that reception has been bad. Spoke too soon, it's cutting in and out again. If I want to record The Office tonight I had better not depend on 13.1 to do it.

So is 13.1 really 39.1 even though it shows up on my receiver as 13.1?

That's the way they ALL work. "8.1" etc, "13.1" etc, etc, are all aliases controlled by the sending station.

WEAU's signal is flakier than your favorite brand of corn cereal. But read my earlier message and take the possibilities to heart. Loose RF is one weird snake, and every time I get it semi-tamed, it finds a new path. I've been able to go several days with a fairly steady signal, then it acts up and I have to shut down the LCD* monitor unless I want to jump up and start "fiddling". The slightest change of any object positioning within 5 meters can be enough to cause trouble.

*LCD's have flourescent tubes behind the screen.

That's the way they ALL work. "8.1" etc, "13.1" etc, etc, are all aliases controlled by the sending station.

WEAU's signal is flakier than your favorite brand of corn cereal. But read my earlier message and take the possibilities to heart. Loose RF is one weird snake, and every time I get it semi-tamed, it finds a new path. I've been able to go several days with a fairly steady signal, then it acts up and I have to shut down the LCD* monitor unless I want to jump up and start "fiddling". The slightest change of any object positioning within 5 meters can be enough to cause trouble.

*LCD's have flourescent tubes behind the screen.

So would a notch filter that takes out channel 41 work and would I have to get one specifically for that channel? I have read posts about problems in filtering a channel that is too close to another, but at least these are not right next to each other. The reason I got my CM 4228 was specifically to get WEAU since I could get all the other channels with my SquareShooter.

Hi Everyone,

Not to hijack the thread but I was wondering if anyone knew the Free/Unencrypted QAM channels I should be able to get living in the Wausau area (Athens actually) through regular charter cable. I am considering purchasing a HDTV pc tuner that can handle this. I live in a very woody low spot so I really don't have the opportunity to use an antenna unless I spend a lot of money. Anyway I emailed charter this question and here's the reply I got.

Thank you so much for contacting Charter Communications. My name is Susan and I would be glad to assist you in the best manner possible.

I understand that you would like to know the list of the channels which are available through regular cable service.

I would like to inform you that to get the channels in HD you need to have HD receiver. On reviewing your account, I see that
you do not HD-receiver. Hence you will not get any channels in HD. Our HD receiver encrypts the signal sent by headend. If you subscribe for the HD receiver, you will get all the channels available in Hi-Def Lifeline and Hi-Def Premium tiers. Channels included in Hi-Def Lifeline and Hi-Def Premium tiers as mentioned below :

Hi-Def Lifeline
WSAW-DT (CBS)
WAOW-DT (ABC)
WHRM-DT (PBS)

Hi-Def Premium
Cinemax HDTV-East
HBO HDTV-East
Showtime HDTV-East

If you have additional questions, please contact our Customer Support Representative at 800-581-0081(this number is available 24-hours a day 7-days a week.), or alternatively, you can use our live chat feature located on our website.

Thank you once again for writing to Charter Communications. Have a nice day ahead !

Sincerely,


Susan
Customer Support Agent
Charter Communications

I'm fairly sure that the lady I just quoted is incorrect. A while back I was told there were channels that I could get with a QAM HD tuner. Anyone have any info?

Thanks,

Jesse

Hi Everyone,

Not to hijack the thread but I was wondering if anyone knew the Free/Unencrypted QAM channels I should be able to get living in the Wausau area (Athens actually) through regular charter cable. I am considering purchasing a HDTV pc tuner that can handle this. I live in a very woody low spot so I really don't have the opportunity to use an antenna unless I spend a lot of money. Anyway I emailed charter this question and here's the reply I got.



I'm fairly sure that the lady I just quoted is incorrect. A while back I was told there were channels that I could get with a QAM HD tuner. Anyone have any info?

Thanks,

Jesse

She is incorrect. In the Eau Claire area with Charter you can get ABC, CBS, NBC and PBS as long as your TV has a built in QAM tuner. You just pay the $10 - $12 per month for basic cable. In order to get ESPN-HD, TNT-HD and the rest you would need to get a charter box or a cable card if your TV has a cable card slot.
She probably didn't know any better OR was just trying to sell you their box.

She is incorrect. In the Eau Claire area with Charter you can get ABC, CBS, NBC and PBS as long as your TV has a built in QAM tuner. You just pay the $10 - $12 per month for basic cable. In order to get ESPN-HD, TNT-HD and the rest you would need to get a charter box or a cable card if your TV has a cable card slot.
She probably didn't know any better OR was just trying to sell you their box.


Thanks Jim!! That's what I figured.

I can see from my past posts since July that my reception of WEAU DT has gotten worse and worse. Back then the signal would bounce between the 80s and the 40s. Then it became between the 80s and the 30s. Now it specifically is between 81 and 0, bouncing back and forth every couple of seconds. It prettly much did not matter if the signal was in the 40s, 30s, or 0 because either way there is no picture. The trouble is that now that it has got down to 0 there is no reception nearly all the time. Maybe it is cross channel interference with WKBT-DT, but WEAU-DT has become worse and worse until now I cannot get it hardly at all. What sucks is that there are shows on NBC that I like to record and it was nice to do that from an HD signal that gave a great picture to play on either my widescreen tv or front projector.

I went out today and moved my CM 4228 around to see if that would make it better, but it didn't. The only reason I bought the 4228 was to pick up WEAU-DT and that is the only station for which I use it. If it is cross channel interference from WKBT-DT channel 41, then a notch filter for that particular channel would be great, but would I have to get one specially made for that channel?

Hello,

I was playing with my LG Hi-Def box last night and noticed Charter added a bunch more Clear-QAM channels. Anyone know what they are and how long they are going to stay? Thanks.

So is anyone else in the Eau Claire area with charter getting STARZ and HBO-FE unencoded?

So would a notch filter that takes out channel 41 work and would I have to get one specifically for that channel? I have read posts about problems in filtering a channel that is too close to another, but at least these are not right next to each other. The reason I got my CM 4228 was specifically to get WEAU since I could get all the other channels with my SquareShooter.

There are notch filters and there are Notch Filters. If you can find them.

Used to be - BC (before cable) that you could find all kinds. Simple consumer-grade models that were tunable but didn't work too good could be used. Specific-channel models, used by cable companies and "master antenna" owners (motels or apartments e.g.) are more expensive and you have to find a parts house that carries everything - or a manufacturer still in business that sells to the public. (Stark's in La Crosse/Onalaska was the last around here. There may be one in Rochester, but I forgot the name.)

Frankly, unless you live so close to a tower that would hit you if it fell over, with digital signals, two channels of separation would normaly not cause trouble.

I have not had anywhere near as many problems with WEAU since I discovered the interference coming from my LCD. By the way, I also found that it affects WLAX's signal on my other sets.

Failure to enter programming details into your PSIP automatically gets you deleted from my scan lists.

When all stations loaded have some info, it takes a couple of seconds to retrieve the data. Just one not complying stalls out the box for as much as a minute (w/o programming).

Can you give me more info on how to get the QAM channels on Eau Claire Charter? What channels are they? I have a HDTV with it's own receiver in it.
Thanks

There are notch filters and there are Notch Filters. If you can find them.

Used to be - BC (before cable) that you could find all kinds. Simple consumer-grade models that were tunable but didn't work too good could be used. Specific-channel models, used by cable companies and "master antenna" owners (motels or apartments e.g.) are more expensive and you have to find a parts house that carries everything - or a manufacturer still in business that sells to the public. (Stark's in La Crosse/Onalaska was the last around here. There may be one in Rochester, but I forgot the name.)

Frankly, unless you live so close to a tower that would hit you if it fell over, with digital signals, two channels of separation would normaly not cause trouble.

I have not had anywhere near as many problems with WEAU since I discovered the interference coming from my LCD. By the way, I also found that it affects WLAX's signal on my other sets.

When I did a search on notch filters I read a post by somebody who had one specially made and it cost $30, but he didn't post where he was getting them from except it took a week or two to get them.

WEAU-DT 13.1 & 13.2 have been very flakey for me. Yesterday (Monday) afternoon the signal got so bad that the channels would not even show up on my receiver. It went from 8.2 to 19.1. Later WEAU-DT returned so at least the channel showed up and then in the evening it stayed strong enough that I was able to record Heroes without any breakups. Today it is back to being so bad that all I get on my LG 4200a is "no signal". It seems like this happened last week also because I was able to record Heroes and then the signal got bad again. Anyways, the signal from WEAU-DT sure seemed to go downhill fast.

OK, I decided to check out about interference, so I unplugged everything but the tv and the 4200a, but then I remember that I had my two antennas on a digital Radio Shack splitter. The splitter will not transmit a signal when it is unplugged. Then I plugged my CM 4228 directly into the receiver and I do get a picture from WEAU-DT, although it breaks up and does not stay on all the time. I have no idea why it held last night. I would really wonder if WEAU has reduced its power? Maybe I need a pre-amp from the antenna?

My 4200a only has a bar meter to show signal strength which runs from "bad" to "good". When the signal from WEAU-DT only gets to the "d" in "bad", there is no picture. When it gets just past the "d" I get a picture that breaks up. When the bar shows a signal that goes up a quarter of the way it has a chance to hold a picture. As a comparison, my other channels signal strength goes halfway between bad and good, or twice the signal I get from WEAU-DT. The good thing is that I do not really need a splitter with an A/B switch because the CM4228 which I got for WEAU picks up all my other channels. Unfortunately, as it is now, it does not get WEAU-DT good enough to hold a signal that is watchable.

I hooked the CfM 4228 directly to my Voom receiver which is in the back of the room so I can use it with my front pj. Its signal get up to 84 now as opposed to switching between 81 and 0, but like the 4200a the signal is not strong enough to hold a picture without it breaking up.

I am about ready to say screw it with this ota hd thing because it is too often a pain in the ass. I may go back to cable and at least that way I can get a deal on a cable internet connection. I never appreciated how good cable was until I have tried to get my programming ota.

When I did a search on notch filters I read a post by somebody who had one specially made and it cost $30, but he didn't post where he was getting them from except it took a week or two to get them.
That sounds awfully cheap. Was it for TV or possibly some other service (Ham; FM, etc.)?

WEAU-DT 13.1 & 13.2 have been very flakey for me. Yesterday (Monday) afternoon the signal got so bad that the channels would not even show up on my receiver. It went from 8.2 to 19.1. Later WEAU-DT returned so at least the channel showed up and then in the evening it stayed strong enough that I was able to record Heroes without any breakups. Today it is back to being so bad that all I get on my LG 4200a is "no signal". It seems like this happened last week also because I was able to record Heroes and then the signal got bad again. Anyways, the signal from WEAU-DT sure seemed to go downhill fast.
Daytime is usually the worst for propagation, unless you have tropo scatter or rain scatter or ducting or some other phenomenon at night.

OK, I decided to check out about interference, so I unplugged everything but the tv and the 4200a, but then I remember that I had my two antennas on a digital Radio Shack splitter. The splitter will not transmit a signal when it is unplugged. Then I plugged my CM 4228 directly into the receiver and I do get a picture from WEAU-DT, although it breaks up and does not stay on all the time. I have no idea why it held last night. I would really wonder if WEAU has reduced its power? Maybe I need a pre-amp from the antenna?
If you have a long (25' or more) cable run from your antenna to the box, an amp is likely to improve things. If you get a good one. Most are adjustable; I recommend turning gain to minimum, then advance until you get a decent signal. Too much gain can cause overload.

Not sure what you mean when you say the "splitter will not transmit a signal when it is unplugged". Splitters drop the signal by more than half (two-way) or more (three- or four-way) even if you only have one "out" line connected. That's another reason why you may need a pre-amp. But maybe you actually meant "joiner". You "join" two or more antennas; you "split" the signal to two or more devices.


My 4200a only has a bar meter to show signal strength which runs from "bad" to "good". When the signal from WEAU-DT only gets to the "d" in "bad", there is no picture. When it gets just past the "d" I get a picture that breaks up. When the bar shows a signal that goes up a quarter of the way it has a chance to hold a picture. As a comparison, my other channels signal strength goes halfway between bad and good, or twice the signal I get from WEAU-DT. The good thing is that I do not really need a splitter with an A/B switch because the CM4228 which I got for WEAU picks up all my other channels. Unfortunately, as it is now, it does not get WEAU-DT good enough to hold a signal that is watchable.

I hooked the CfM 4228 directly to my Voom receiver which is in the back of the room so I can use it with my front pj. Its signal get up to 84 now as opposed to switching between 81 and 0, but like the 4200a the signal is not strong enough to hold a picture without it breaking up.
The numbers you cite are only applicable to your model receiver. Other units may have different displays, and none are calibrated industrial devices. In any case, what the problem is, is the "cliff effect". A lousy analog signal may make you go blind trying to watch, but digital signals have an absolute minimum, or they act like spoiled brats who won't play with anybody.

You "join" two or more antennas; you "split" the signal to two or more devices.
Allow me to clarify: Two antennas joined could generate out-of-phase ("multipath") interference; splitting will reduce the signal to each output.

Allow me to clarify: Two antennas joined could generate out-of-phase ("multipath") interference; splitting will reduce the signal to each output.

I have two antennas: a SquareShooter which I got when I had Voom, but would not bring in WEAU-DT, and a CM4228 which I bought specifically to get WEAU-DT and which did ok until recently. I plugged both antennas into a Radio Shack digital A/B switch so I could switch from one to the other antenna using the remote. When I disconnected the power from this A/B switch, the picture was lost to snow--no signal, so the switch was not even working passively. I have discard the A/B switch now since I can get all my channels with the CM 4228 except for WEAU-DT which is why I bought the antenna in the first place. WEAU-DT has gone to hell now and it does not matter what the weather is like because it won't hold now even on a perfectly clear and beautiful day.

I realize that signal meters are particular to a specific receiver, but on the LG 4200a the signal strength needs to be halfway over to lock onto it and the best WEAU-DT gets to now is just a quarter of the way over. Same with the Voom receiver where evidently a signal strength of 81-84 does not cut it because my other channels are getting a signal strength of 98 or 99. For whatever reason WEAU-DT strength has dropped off. Maybe just a little more power would let me lock on to it.

My cable from my 4228 is 50' long, but now it is not split at all, but goes directly into the 4200a. Is there any particular preamp that goes better with the 4228? I thought I had read something about that once before. I am pretty sure that what I had read about the guy special ordering a notch filter for a particular channel was for tv. He said he would was going to need 2 of them and so would be spending $60. Are these anything like what the cable company used to use to block out a channel such as one receiving HBO when you did not subscribe to it? Those seemed pretty simple.

I have two antennas: a SquareShooter which I got when I had Voom, but would not bring in WEAU-DT, and a CM4228 which I bought specifically to get WEAU-DT and which did ok until recently.
I hate to admit it, but I do not have any familiarity with current antennas from any manufacturer. I have a couple of old 4-bay "bow tie" ants (which may have been ChannelMaster). I have a professional pre-amp on one, with a built-in selectable FM trap, and band-passes for VHF and UHF. (Bandpass/traps are also available for high- and low-band VHF.) These worked reasonably well for analog, and still do for digital.

I also have a smaller 2-bay indoor bow tie (Radio Shack has - or had - them) which is not amplified. I also have a junker "RCA"* set-top internally amplified "rabbit ears" and loop. It works better than one has any reason to hope. It is the one which successfully receives WEAU without being outside. It is, however, on the second floor - above local trees and buildings.

I plugged both antennas into a Radio Shack digital A/B switch so I could switch from one to the other antenna using the remote. When I disconnected the power from this A/B switch, the picture was lost to snow--no signal, so the switch was not even working passively. I have discard the A/B switch now since I can get all my channels with the CM 4228 except for WEAU-DT which is why I bought the antenna in the first place.
Without seeing a schematic, I'd just guess the switch was in a neutral position without power. I assume it added no amplification, and was not passing DC to any amp past it.

My cable from my 4228 is 50' long, but now it is not split at all, but goes directly into the 4200a. Is there any particular preamp that goes better with the 4228? I thought I had read something about that once before. I am pretty sure that what I had read about the guy special ordering a notch filter for a particular channel was for tv. He said he would was going to need 2 of them and so would be spending $60.
50' is pretty long when you start out with a marginal signal. Poor cable, kinks, water infiltration - that's bad. When I first started trying to get WEAU and KROC, even a 20' run was too much. Adding the amp made all the difference.

You are pretty limited in what amps you can find off-the-shelf these days. RS does have a small selection, Wettsteins probably could get some better ones, and specialty shops, if you can find any, would have the most knowledge. There was a guy in La Crescent who installed antennas, but I doubt he's still around. Check the Yellow Pages.

Are these anything like what the cable company used to use to block out a channel such as one receiving HBO when you did not subscribe to it? Those seemed pretty simple.
They would, in theory, be similar to the simple "traps" the cable company used (may still, for all I know, but now I think everything is digitally controlled from the head end to your box). Trouble is, there may be some for VHF, but "UHF" channels on cable actually aren't - they use lower frequencies that actually parallel aviation, ground mobile and military bands, so you're not going to find any "surplus" that match broadcast UHF.

*"RCA" really isn't, anymore. The trademark is owned by Thompson (France), and most consumer products are manufactured by anonymous Chinese sweat shops.

I hate to admit it, but I do not have any familiarity with current antennas from any manufacturer. I have a couple of old 4-bay "bow tie" ants (which may have been ChannelMaster). I have a professional pre-amp on one, with a built-in selectable FM trap, and band-passes for VHF and UHF. (Bandpass/traps are also available for high- and low-band VHF.) These worked reasonably well for analog, and still do for digital.

I also have a smaller 2-bay indoor bow tie (Radio Shack has - or had - them) which is not amplified. I also have a junker "RCA"* set-top internally amplified "rabbit ears" and loop. It works better than one has any reason to hope. It is the one which successfully receives WEAU without being outside. It is, however, on the second floor - above local trees and buildings.


Without seeing a schematic, I'd just guess the switch was in a neutral position without power. I assume it added no amplification, and was not passing DC to any amp past it.


50' is pretty long when you start out with a marginal signal. Poor cable, kinks, water infiltration - that's bad. When I first started trying to get WEAU and KROC, even a 20' run was too much. Adding the amp made all the difference.

You are pretty limited in what amps you can find off-the-shelf these days. RS does have a small selection, Wettsteins probably could get some better ones, and specialty shops, if you can find any, would have the most knowledge. There was a guy in La Crescent who installed antennas, but I doubt he's still around. Check the Yellow Pages.


They would, in theory, be similar to the simple "traps" the cable company used (may still, for all I know, but now I think everything is digitally controlled from the head end to your box). Trouble is, there may be some for VHF, but "UHF" channels on cable actually aren't - they use lower frequencies that actually parallel aviation, ground mobile and military bands, so you're not going to find any "surplus" that match broadcast UHF.

*"RCA" really isn't, anymore. The trademark is owned by Thompson (France), and most consumer products are manufactured by anonymous Chinese sweat shops.

Well tonight WEAU-DT is coming in perfect in spite of the fact that it signal strength on the meter shows exactly what it was last night when the picture was pixelalitng and would not hold the channel. Go figure. I bought the ChannelMaster 4228 because it was the one that I read that was being touted by everyone as the antenna to have.
The SquareSooter is made by Winegard and Voom put it up to get my locals, but WEAU was too far away and in the opposite direction of the others. The SquareShooter looks like a square satellite dish. Its attached to the same pole that has my Voom dish and it looks unusual with a dish and a flat, square antenna. The A/B switch is gone now because the CM 4228 goes right into my LG 4200a receiver and the SquareShooter goes into my Voom receiver. It is still odd how WEAU-DT comes in fine tonight, but would not last night in spite of the fact that the weather is worse and the signal no stronger.

Also, I only got notified of your reply written last night only about a half hour ago at 7 p.m. That seems like a long time between a reply and notification of a reply. I noticed this happened before that notification of a reply came a half day later.

Well tonight WEAU-DT is coming in perfect in spite of the fact that it signal strength on the meter shows exactly what it was last night when the picture was pixelalitng and would not hold the channel. Go figure.
See, that's almost what was happening every time I turned on the LCD monitor. My assortment of "fixes" has been holding up for several days now, so I can keep the LCD on. However, today I noticed that WEAU's signal was up a notch over usual. Believe it or not, that's possible with bad weather.

I bought the ChannelMaster 4228 because it was the one that I read that was being touted by everyone as the antenna to have.
The SquareSooter is made by Winegard
Winegard is another old-time name. I guess they all haven't faded away.


The SquareShooter looks like a square satellite dish.
I probably have seen them.

Some of the dishes do not have particularly narrow beams (they're s'posed to). Yagis (also know as "beams"), which are long horizontal poles with short cross-members, have high directionality and very good rejection of signals to either side or back. They are useful when you need to eliminate interference.

I just came across this, which I have not tried (it helps in selecting antennas):

http://antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx


Also, I only got notified of your reply written last night only about a half hour ago at 7 p.m. That seems like a long time between a reply and notification of a reply. I noticed this happened before that notification of a reply came a half day later.
It happens. Sometimes an email will be in limbo for a couple of days, if the server goes flooey ;)

See, that's almost what was happening every time I turned on the LCD monitor. My assortment of "fixes" has been holding up for several days now, so I can keep the LCD on. However, today I noticed that WEAU's signal was up a notch over usual. Believe it or not, that's possible with bad weather.


Winegard is another old-time name. I guess they all haven't faded away.



I probably have seen them.

Some of the dishes do not have particularly narrow beams (they're s'posed to). Yagis (also know as "beams"), which are long horizontal poles with short cross-members, have high directionality and very good rejection of signals to either side or back. They are useful when you need to eliminate interference.

I just came across this, which I have not tried (it helps in selecting antennas):

http://antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx


It happens. Sometimes an email will be in limbo for a couple of days, if the server goes flooey ;)

I got this email notification right away. Is it possible that sunspots could be causing the bad reception? I say this because I was listening to Minnesota Public Radio yesterday during the noon hour and they warned that some people might lose their signal due to sunspots. What is odd is that the signal strength of WEAU-DT shows the same as yesterday when it would not hold the picture and yet today at the same signal strength the picture was locked in. I think the SquareShooter has been used a lot with dishes. They work well and do not look anything like an antenna which seems to make them more aesthetically acceptable.

Is it possible that sunspots could be causing the bad reception? I say this because I was listening to Minnesota Public Radio yesterday during the noon hour and they warned that some people might lose their signal due to sunspots.

I don't know that any high level of sunspots have been observed. However, a situation where the sun lines up with satellites directly in line, so that the sun's normal radiation overpowers receivers on earth happens a couple times a year, and that was warned about. I did notice some signal drop-outs on several stations. But that is because they could not get the network.

That would not affect their transmitted signal.

I forgot to make a correction to an earlier statement.

"A-B Switches" and "combiners" are actually two different animals. I don't know what I was thinking when I equated the two.

Joiners are commonly used at the antennas to send two signals down one "pipe".

A switch would keep the two antennas separate. It actually could be put anywhere in the line (next to a TV or receiver, or way up on the mast, which of course requires remote operation, unless you want to climb on the roof or tower every time you want the other antenna).

Hello,

Can anyone tell me the channel numbers of the free QAM stations for the Wausau charter area? I just got a HD pc tuner and am a bit lost on what channels are what. I think they're in the 1000-1050 range. I've found abc, cbs, and pbs but don't see nbc.

Thanks,
Jesse

I have a question regarding HD and Fox. I realize this is a question for Charter, but thought maybe one of you would know before I called them and waited forever. Why doesn't Charter offer a Fox channel in HD in the La Crosse area (Onalaska)? I don't use an OTA attenna and maybe I could pickup a channel in HD, but not really interested in doing that. Just curious if anyone has talked to Charter about why they don't offer Fox in HD? Thanks.

Weau tv 13 NBC Problems

I have noticed that for the past week or so that tv 13 NBC HD programs have little sparkly things in the dark colors during dark scenes. At first I thought maybe it was my Moxi cable receiver so I went ota HD reception and still the same problem. Then I thought maybe it was my DLP tv, but CBS and the rest of my HD channels don't show the same problem in the same setting (dark scene dark colors) anyone else noticing this?

Hello,

Can anyone tell me the channel numbers of the free QAM stations for the Wausau charter area? I just got a HD pc tuner and am a bit lost on what channels are what. I think they're in the 1000-1050 range. I've found abc, cbs, and pbs but don't see nbc.

Thanks,
Jesse
If you have a reasonably good antenna, just tell your tuner or set to "search". It will find all those with an adequate signal. If you hear of any it missed, you can add them manually in most cases by punching in the transmitting channel number.

I have a question regarding HD and Fox. I realize this is a question for Charter, but thought maybe one of you would know before I called them and waited forever. Why doesn't Charter offer a Fox channel in HD in the La Crosse area (Onalaska)? I don't use an OTA attenna and maybe I could pickup a channel in HD, but not really interested in doing that. Just curious if anyone has talked to Charter about why they don't offer Fox in HD? Thanks.

Because WLAX is NOT transmitting in HD yet. It's digital, but low-def. The cable co. could not legally substitute another Fox station.

Weau tv 13 NBC Problems

I have noticed that for the past week or so that tv 13 NBC HD programs have little sparkly things in the dark colors during dark scenes. At first I thought maybe it was my Moxi cable receiver so I went ota HD reception and still the same problem. Then I thought maybe it was my DLP tv, but CBS and the rest of my HD channels don't show the same problem in the same setting (dark scene dark colors) anyone else noticing this?
No. It sounds like internal (in your house) "RF noise" (interference). Could be from anything electrical.

I don't know that any high level of sunspots have been observed. However, a situation where the sun lines up with satellites directly in line, so that the sun's normal radiation overpowers receivers on earth happens a couple times a year, and that was warned about. I did notice some signal drop-outs on several stations. But that is because they could not get the network.

That would not affect their transmitted signal.

Actually, we're at the bottom of the sunspot cycle - we've got about as few sunspots as we're going to get. (I wish it was otherwise, my ham radio gear would be a lot more fun!)

But the other part you mention, about the sun outages, is accurate, and we are in sun outage season. I would imagine most networks don't have a backup HD feed on a different satellite. (they do have SD backup feeds)

No. It sounds like internal (in your house) "RF noise" (interference). Could be from anything electrical.

Could it be that I live near the airport. I notice that I have problems listening to the AM/FM radiio stations also. A lot of intererence.

Frankly, unless you live so close to a tower that would hit you if it fell over, with digital signals, two channels of separation would normaly not cause trouble.

I thought the same thing, but engineers much smarter than I am have determined that N-2 and N+2 suffer significant interference with digital signals.

Because WLAX is NOT transmitting in HD yet. It's digital, but low-def. The cable co. could not legally substitute another Fox station.

What's the latest regarding when WLAX will be transmiting in HD? Have they given us any timeframe?

If you have a reasonably good antenna, just tell your tuner or set to "search". It will find all those with an adequate signal. If you hear of any it missed, you can add them manually in most cases by punching in the transmitting channel number.

Thanks for the reply Roger. The question I had wasn't related to over the air channels. I'm talking about getting unencrypted QAM through charters cable. Basically Charter pipes a few HD channels for free down their signal if you have the right type of tuner. I purchased a tuner last week, DVICO FusionHDTV5 RT Lite, and was able to find PBS, ABC (channel 1010), and CBS (channel 1040). I was wondering if NBC is also available somewhere. I get a ton of channels found, most of which are either encrypted, not HD, or are the music channels. Anyone out there have info.

I'll ask Charter again to see if I get a more knowledgable person.

Fust ov awl, I'm not Ree-ly "Roger". You guys have to start watching old war movies. :rolleyes:

"Roger" is a communications acknowledgement that the message was received. It came out of wartime, but is still widely used, e.g., in the aviation community, law enforcement, Amateur Radio (sometimes), eckity-etc. :cool:

"Wilco" was then often appended, and it means "will_comply" (sounds better than "Oh, Geeze, do we really have to?"), unless you were in a situation where you COULDN'T (comply) without loosing your life or some body part that was quite dear to you. Although, sometimes that was NOT a consideration. :eek:

Is the Volunteer State in NINER-Land? Guess I should get out my map! :o

Well, I don't have HF privileges anyway, so I'd have to try a repeater link-up. :(

Actually, we're at the bottom of the sunspot cycle - we've got about as few sunspots as we're going to get. (I wish it was otherwise, my ham radio gear would be a lot more fun!)
Yep, I know quite well the 22-year thingy. But there can be anomalies, though they are rare.

But the other part you mention, about the sun outages, is accurate, and we are in sun outage season. I would imagine most networks don't have a backup HD feed on a different satellite. (they do have SD backup feeds)
Of course, I'm always right! :p

Could it be that I live near the airport. I notice that I have problems listening to the AM/FM radio stations also. A lot of intererence.
Well, the FCC and the FAA take a hugely dim view of interference of any kind around airports.

I suppose that it could be, though, - maybe from Radar (not O'Reilly :rolleyes: ).

But you said something about "sparklies", didn't you? That commonly is from el-cheapo motors found in vacuum cleaners or food mixers/blenders or toys in very close proximity (like in the next room).

I thought the same thing, but engineers much smarter than I am have determined that N-2 and N+2 suffer significant interference with digital signals.
Did they say anything about directivity or proximity? I would think that it could be possible if both transmitters were close, and you were right between them.

What's the latest regarding when WLAX will be transmiting in HD? Have they given us any timeframe?
I thought that they said sometime around the end of the year, but I can't recall where I heard that, and nobody is backing me up.

Their signal causes me as much grief as 13's, but saturday it was quite strong on all antennas. Then sunday I lost it on one, but it remained high on another. Don't know if they done anything or not. I just give up. Call or email 'em. See what they say currently.

Thanks for the reply Roger. The question I had wasn't related to over the air channels. I'm talking about getting unencrypted QAM through charters cable. Basically Charter pipes a few HD channels for free down their signal if you have the right type of tuner. . .
I was trying to wean you off the weasels. OTA is FREE!

I was trying to wean you off the weasels. OTA is FREE!

Free is good. :cool: Just the antenna isn't free when you live in a valley and are 30+ miles from a tower.

But you said something about "sparklies", didn't you? That commonly is from el-cheapo motors found in vacuum cleaners or food mixers/blenders or toys in very close proximity (like in the next room).

The interference has to be from the power lines he's using for the television, because he's got the sparklies on *digital* channels.

A good rule of thumb in cases like this is to have video lines and power lines at right angles where they cross.

Did they say anything about directivity or proximity? I would think that it could be possible if both transmitters were close, and you were right between them.

From the article I cited above (emphasis mine):

"Suppose the D/U ratio at your home is -30 dB. The co-channel noise due to IM3 radiated by one adjacent DTV channel transmitter is D -16.5 dB. This means that a 1.3 dB fade or a little echo will put your signal-to-noise + interference (S/N+I) at threshold, 15.2 dB. If two DTV adjacent-channel signals are at the same level, I = U -43.5 dB, so your S/(N+I) falls to 13.5 dB, and reception fails. Why?

"But that was just the first part of the story. Even at a moderate U signal level, there may be additional IM3 generated in your DTV tuner. The ATTC tests demonstrated this at a U level of -25 dBm. Receiver-generated IM3 adds directly to the IM3 that accompanies the adjacent-channel DTV signal into your tuner; receiver-generated IM3 attacks your desired signal, unattenuated. You might have had reliable reception until a DTV transmitter signed on at its maximum authorized power. Fortunately, if you put a 3 dB attenuator in the downlead right at the receiver, you will attenuate the receiver-generated IM3 by 9 dB! With only a 3 dB loss in desired signal power, that may take care of the problem. Suitable 75-ohm, 3 dB attenuators are readily available and inexpensive."

His tests seem to indicate that the problems are related to received power, and relatively minor input levels can cause major problems. But again, I'm not an engineer.

I thought that they said sometime around the end of the year, but I can't recall where I heard that, and nobody is backing me up.

Their signal causes me as much grief as 13's, but saturday it was quite strong on all antennas. Then sunday I lost it on one, but it remained high on another. Don't know if they done anything or not. I just give up. Call or email 'em. See what they say currently.

Here is what I received from the engineer at the local FOX...
"
Regarding when Fox 25.1 will transition from the Low-Power 480i/SDTV signal to the High-Powered, 720p/HDTV signal, what I can say is this: WLAX is still working with vendors in order to get the required equipment and get it installed...-

But, before the transmitter can be upgraded, we'll also have to perform two other upgrades; # 1.) We will have to re-furbish our current tower or replace it all together with a new one and; # 2.) We will need to upgrade the "signal path" (from our Studio-site up to the transmitter's site) in order to pass through the 720p/HD signal itself ...-

Then, following those first two upgrades, we can then upgrade the WLAX DT transmitter (Xmtr.) and antenna. At this point, the upgraded (High-powered) WLAX DT is expected to be on-the-air sometime in either 2007 or 2008.

I apologize that I can't be any more specific than that ...-"

sounds like Milty Grant needs to start selling some major league pron to get the $ for all that equipment.

I am watching Heroes tonight (30 Oct.) and there is no audio other than the background music and no closed captioning. I wish I had another NBC choice. Oh, there is audio for the commercials.

Anyone notice WHLA-DT bump up the power?

I'm getting a much stronger signal than usual, and antenna aiming isn't nearly so critical as it used to be. Now if only they'd stop starving the bandwidth of -1 with the ridiciulously low-demand programming on -3, we could all be happy.

I am watching Heroes tonight (30 Oct.) and there is no audio other than the background music and no closed captioning. I wish I had another NBC choice. Oh, there is audio for the commercials.

I caught the last hour of the Today Show and in the last 15 minutes the sound went way down and so I had to turn it up. Also, no closed captioning. Then I though, ah ha! So I called WEAU and talked with their engineer and he said it was a network HD problem that they were trying to work out and that NBC does not know what is happening either. The SD feed is fine. When recording from WEAU I use suspenders and a belt, recording the HD signal onto a dvd and the SD onto a super VHS. Since I put an amplifier onto my antenna to boost the signal from WEAU for HD it seems to be too powerful for the SD which was fine before when the HD would cut out.

Anyone notice WHLA-DT bump up the power?

I'm getting a much stronger signal than usual, and antenna aiming isn't nearly so critical as it used to be. Now if only they'd stop starving the bandwidth of -1 with the ridiciulously low-demand programming on -3, we could all be happy.

My signal from WHLA is 99 out of a 100 on my Voom receiver so it is very strong using my SquareShooter antenna, but I have never had a problem with it since I am so close on the northside of La Crosse. I agree with 31.3, it must have a very small audience.

This forum has been silent for awhile. Is there any new news on either digital version of WLAX or WEUX getting close to passing HD signals anytime soon? Here's hoping everyone has a great new year!

Thanks to craptacular WLAX, we won't be getting the BCS Championship in HD. Every week, I hope that the game I want to watch ISN'T on WLAX.

God they suck.

According to the WPT website, they have finished installing their HD Ops Center, and will start HD broadcasting every other saturday. However, the schedule for Jan 13 only lists previously seen programs:

http://www.wpt.org/digitaltv/

Also, anybody else having intermittant trouble lately with 13.1? (There have been reports of meteor showers in the past few days. I wonder if I'm experiencing scatter effects.)

Perhaps I misspoke the other week, because WPT stations still aren't showing any signs of improvement. I get frequent breakups on both WHWC-DT and WHLA-DT, identical to what I was receiving several months ago. Atmospheric conditions do play a role, and on "good" days, reception can be downright perfect. Lately, conditions have rarely been good. I perform a daily "test" with "Mister Rogers" from 12:30-1:00, one of the worst times of the day for television reception. Nighttimes are dramatically better. In contrast, WKBT-DT comes in perfectly 24x7 - I have to misaim by more than 40 degrees in either direction to get so much as a breakup.

Can anyone in the know report on WPT affiliate power and if they intend to do anything before 2009?

All WPT stations are supposedly at full power (they certainly peg my "meters"). You can contact them either by phone (per website) or email:

comments@wpt.org

you may have to ask them to forward the question to the engineering staff.

Starting sometime wednesday, overnight, and into thursday, there was a serious problem with WHLA-DT, where it was in a high-frequency cycle of signal dropout. I wrote to them, and things were fixed by thursday afternoon.

They don't actually say which sub-channel their state-originated HD will be on, but unless they have acquired the software/hardware that the WXOW engineer was speaking of some time back (from Harris), it would have to be on the .1 channel.

For the Wausau residents on this forum...

What stations do you get with an OTA antenna? I bought my Sony XBR970 so that I could use its QAM Tuner and not have to worry about reception, but Charter's continued failure to pick up WJFW's HD signal in this market makes me wonder if I'm missing out on Heroes and the Thursday night comedies in HD.


[Note: I'm mainly wondering about an in-the-house antenna; guessing my landlord wouldn't approve of anything more extravagant than that.]

Is WJFW putting out a digital signal yet? I don't see anything listed on antennaweb.org or their own web page.

You should have no problems picking up CBS, ABC & PBS in Wausau. Eau Claire and Rhinelander (if digital) will need more than rabbit ears to get.

What lovebohn said. I do get NBC from Eau Claire, but I have a 190" antenna on my roof.

Buck, can you get channel 12 from Rhinelander?

Yes, I don't watch it in the theater, however (why watch SD when you can watch HD). In our living room, I usually watch wjfw's uhf channel 27....it comes in a little better than 12.

So WJFW is digital but not in HD yet.

As far as I know they are still analog...but I haven't paid attention since I get WEAU-DT.

A bit of an update to the WJFW / Wausau issue:

"Charter has chosen to wait until our new digital transmitter is up and
running, even though we have been feeding them, via fiber, a HD signal.
I'm sorry, but I don't have a name for you at Charter. My primary contact
was promoted and has left the area. His replacement has not yet been
named.

The installation of our new, state of the art, transmitter is underway.
They expect to be testing it within two weeks, and we should be up and
on the air full power, full time sometime early February.

Thanks for watching!

Rob"

'Rob' would be Rob Krieghoff, the Vice President and General Manager of WJFW. I had e-mailed the station back in September (when I got my XBR 970) to ask about HD. I was told back then that Charter was already been recieving the HD signal back then. A month from now, I might actually be able to watch Heroes in HD! :D (Now if I could only get Packer games in HD....but that's more of an FCC holdup for WFXS.)

Anyone else notice that analogue WJFW 12 was showing the vertically streched NBC HD feed on Thursday night, how close are we to Full Power?

Anyone else notice that analogue WJFW 12 was showing the vertically streched NBC HD feed on Thursday night, how close are we to Full Power?

I had taped the shows last night. I don't think it was vertically-stretched, so much as they took the NBC HD 16x9 picture and compressed the horizontal. [Note: if you watched Scrubs, which isn't filmed in HD, it had black bars down the left and right side...like I usually have on my HDTV while watching Standard Def programming.] The HD icon was clearly visible on Office and My Name is Earl.


If I had to guess, I'd say that WJFW had a problem with its SD feed last night. Since they had the HD feed, I presume they would have just doctored the image to fit a SD broadcast.

Since I only recieved the GM's e-mail that I quoted above on Monday, I don't take it as a sign that the station is closer than expected to broadcasting at full-power. The real question is: when will Charter Wausau start carrying the HD feed? (or will I have to buy an antenna?)

Well, the NFC Championship looked like crap on WLAX, while the AFC championship on WKBT was stellar.

I wish Fox would pull WLAX's liscense. It's 2007 and your audio is still MONO. Technically, they are no different today than they were in 1988. Ohh yeah, but they retread Eau Claire News at 9:00.

bastards

I agree WLAX should be suspended. Mono and refusing to do HDTV, with the Number one show on Television? Poor, poor management.

WEUX/WLAX does seem to be mired in a bit of a pickle when it comes to putting up a good signal. Investing in stereo equipment at this point makes no sense, since analog is going away soon anyway.

But you're also making a basic mistake: their license does not come from Fox but from the FCC. The FCC allocated frequencies and the like. Affiliate agreements with networks are managed by the affiliates and the networks; the FCC has little say in how that gets handled. So while you may want Fox to revoke their affiliation, you have to ask yourself who Fox would go to in the Eau Claire/La Crosse market. If there was an independent, they'd have somewhere else to go. As it is, the best they could do is talk an affiliate of one of the other networks to switch - meaning that WEUX/WLAX would still be a major network station, just not Fox, and they'd have the same problems with HD they do now.

Your best bet is to get satellite service and then request an HD waiver for the New York stations. It should be a no-brainer.

WJFW has been broadcasting in HD for quite sometime now (4 to 5 years). BUT.. If you watch the sign off (usually about 3 AM to 3:30 AM) the power output of the HD transmitter is 10 WATTS. (NOT A TYPO REALLY 10 WATTS). WJFW-HD is probably only using an exciter for a transmitter. I believe the HD transmitter is located on one of the towers at the studio and not using the main tower in Starks. Its probably only up 60 to 80 feet. I would guess the transmitter barely has enough power to cover Rhinelander.

In a previous post, I mentioned that Wisconsin Public Television said they'd begin local (State of WI) HD broadcasting every other saturday. Well, the first outing (on their digital channel .1) was nothing but tapes of regular PBS HD fare.

Last night, WPT presented a 90-minute concert by the Madison Symphony Orchestra, including guest recital performances by four high school students (it was a contest). Perhaps not your Cup of Tea, but I am not aware of any other Wisconsin broadcasters putting on HDTV live.

(The Milwaukee Technical School has produced Tracks Ahead in HD for a couple of years. WPT is also producing In Wisconsin in HD, but it is only shown on the SD channel - letterboxed - at this time.)

On other subjects, when Fox came to Milwaukee, the local CBS affiliate (Channel 6), dumped CBS to go with Fox. A new station (channel 58) took CBS. That network was NOT happy.

I cannot imagine a 10-watt station having much coverage.

HOWEVER, Amateur Radio licencees ("Hams") can operate television stations (using frequencies that cable operators CANNOT actually broadcast on - their signal is ONLY transmitted through the cable, and may not leak out).

Hams can use power levels of 100 watts or more. Even at 10 watts, with highly directional antennas at both ends, reports of successful reception at over 50 miles have been made.

Trying to watch it on this Thursday night and there is no audio channel. I can hear the music, but at least this time there is closed captioning. A couple of months ago I talked with their engineer and the network got the blame. Irritating to say the least.

Now the audio's back, but it's in SD. Oh well..
EDIT: 7:46 - Back to HD but no audio. What are these guys doing?

Messing with your minds. That's a favorite sport of theirs. . . :rolleyes:

'course, you have to have a mind in the first place. Um. . .

A couple of days ago, WXOW failed to switch from local morning news to network on 19.1. I don't know when they caught on, but it was like that for over an hour :mad: (every time they returned to local cut-in, everything was OK).

Trying to watch it on this Thursday night and there is no audio channel. I can hear the music, but at least this time there is closed captioning. A couple of months ago I talked with their engineer and the network got the blame. Irritating to say the least.

I had the same problem on thursday (I recorded it), actually what it appears to be is the rear channels are being sent as the front for some reason. Of course commercials all worked :(

I was wondering if there are any posters in here that live directlty in Eau Claire. I was wondering if they are able to get any channels from the twin cities.

Thanks

I was wondering if there are any posters in here that live directlty in Eau Claire. I was wondering if they are able to get any channels from the twin cities.

Thanks

From Eau Claire, I get WEAU-TV/DT, WQOW-TV/DT, WHWC-TV/DT, WEUX-TV, and WKBT-TV. It would be nice if I got KMSP-DT, but alas, I do not.

Thanks for the reply, I get the same, a decent fox feed would be nice.

Hello,

My Clear QAM channels from Charter (onalaska), seem to be going wacky, all broken up and going in and out of tuning. Since about Sunday night.

Anyone else have that problem?

Wisconsin Public Television now has four SD channels from 6:00 am to 7:00 pm daily (none of which are working properly - NO sound).

That means NO HD feed from PBS daytimes anymore, something they've had for more than two years.

The new channels are almost all repeats of childrens' programs already seen on the original WPT channel, plus, supposedly, some classroom instructional material.

After 7:00 pm, the HD channel returns, but it's a mix of the PBS feed and local programming. (The new SD channels, and "Create", formerly the .3 channel, go blank.)

The only other channel at night is the digital clone (but still SD) of the WPT analog channel. So, for most people there are only a few hours of HD daily.

This is all contrary to the original intent of HDTV, which was supposed to replace entirely the programming running on the soon-to-be-gone analog stations (only two years to go on Feb. 17).

The channel called "WPT2" (which I think is -2) is just fine, i.e. with sound, on the Eau Claire digital cable.

P.S. WEAU-DT is not HD right now, it seems :(

The channel called "WPT2" (which I think is -2) is just fine, i.e. with sound, on the Eau Claire digital cable.

That may be because they are using the analog feed. I really don't know what Eau Claire cable carries. (Formerly, WPT .1 was the high-def channel, and .2 was the SD analog channel. Now WPT .1 is the analog channel, and .5 is the HD channel.)

P.S. WEAU-DT is not HD right now, it seems :(

OTA it is, though I have caught WXOW/WQOW failing to switch to HD at times.

This is all contrary to the original intent of HDTV, which was supposed to replace entirely the programming running on the soon-to-be-gone analog stations (only two years to go on Feb. 17).

Whose original intent? The FCC and Congress never really cared about HD, and still don't. It's about reclaiming broadcast spectrum to auction off for megabucks. The ATSC standard has always allowed for multicasting, and one of the proposed benefits of the digital standard would be to include "up to 5" SD channels simultaneously.

I've seen TPT's multicast feeds on KTCI-DT, and I think they've got a good mix for value. Maybe WPT will get things going here soon and it will be a nice addition. Daytime PBS HD feeds have been megareruns forever, anyway. But they need to go to a maximum of 1 HD and 1 SD feed after 7PM - the HD looks horrible as it was.

According to the WPT web site, 28-1 and 28-2 are airing the same primetime programming. :confused: Why not just take -2 off and leave -1 and -5 on? The HD would look much better.

EDIT: Never mind. They put a screensaver on -2 just like -3 and -4.

According to the WPT web site, 28-1 and 28-2 are airing the same primetime programming. :confused: Why not just take -2 off and leave -1 and -5 on? The HD would look much better.

Both the on-screen guide (PSIP) and the WPT website are wrong. The listings for .3 are actually those for .5 (the only HD service) and vice-versa.

But strangely, the new La Crosse Tribune web-only 24-hour guide has correct listings for WPT. The only problem is that the Trib's site doesn't function correctly (it doesn't give a complete set of stations). Only if you choose individual stations/subchannels will you get the schedule you want.

Users in Wausau and Rhinelander:
Have been in Vilas Co. north of you for a year now. Am STILL waiting for the local channels in HD from D*; I'm too far away to get them OTA except the PBS superstation in Park Falls, which btw is beautiful to watch. I know various web sites state that this market is #134 out of 210 D* markets, but when, if ever are we going to get the locals in HD via satellite??? Any thoughts??? I just got their new rate increase info--not much, just $3 a month more, but really.....

Isn't WYOW channel 34 Eagle River in HD? According to the station's website they have been up and running for a quite a long time. Even if you lived way up north in Land O Lakes, you should be able to get the HD stations from Park Falls and Eagle River.


From the station's website "WYOW-TV was the first station in the area on the air with Digital Television."

Isn't WYOW channel 34 Eagle River in HD? According to the station's website they have been up and running for a quite a long time. Even if you lived way up north in Land O Lakes, you should be able to get the HD stations from Park Falls and Eagle River.


From the station's website "WYOW-TV was the first station in the area on the air with Digital Television."

Am 12 miles due west of ER and cannot get their signal. Was told by a local ER electroncis installer that I was too far away! As I stated earlier, Park Falls comes in just fine. Difference seems to be related to the two station's power output. The installer stated that the ER signal is limited to a few miles surrounding it.

Does anyone on this forum get the 34.1 HD signal??? How far are you from it??

I look up the WYOW website and they failed to state what thier true Digital channel is really on channel 28.

I went to FCC website and see they are still on construction permit at 70kw power for the Digital 28. I also found that the transitmitter is located just southwest of Thunder Lake just under 10 miles due south of Eagle River on Hwy A and Thunder Lake Rd. along with WXPR - FM 91.7 and WLSL- FM 93.7 tower also. The Analog WYOW 34 is at 2400 kw.

At 70 Kw that pretty low. Don't know how much they will go for power when it ready to go full power. Are you able to get Analog 34 good ? if snowy then I would say you are not going to get the Digital channel untill they go with more power. I have a Rockford, IL station that 32 miles away on ch DT 42( Fox 39) and they are at 2400 Kw and I can't get them and I don't have trees or terrian problem as you have up there to fight with also.

What kind of OTA antenna? indoor, attic or ouside mount and how high. Do you have antenna pre-amp? what model? DO you have RG-59 coax cable ? If yes, I would recomend that to be change to RG-6 Quad that would make a whole world of differences like Day and Night.

Try sending a e-mail to the WYOW station chief engineer and ask them if they could you suggestions on getting the DT channel. He or She may be asking the same question I have above. But they would have better understanding of the area than I would here other than it nice quite life up there than down here.

But be freely to post more question and I will try my best to answer them for you.

Anyone else in the EC area having trouble picking up 108.2 (ABCHD QAM)? Worked great last week and now I don't seem to be picking it up.

Anyone else in the EC area having trouble picking up 108.2 (ABCHD QAM)? Worked great last week and now I don't seem to be picking it up.


I am not real familar with how the QAM works, but I have not been able to pick wqow 18.1 over the antenna for some weird reason. I am assuming we are talking about the same thing.

The cable company in EC put a message on the WQOW-DT derived channels (ABC HD and The CW) that says:

| WQOW
| Has some transmission
| Difficulty.
|
| They are working on
| The problem.

No HD Oscars for us.
Does WXOW-DT in La Crosse work?

WXOW DT worked fine on Charter Cable. The Oscars were in HD.

No WQOW tv 18 signal here either. It went out some time last night. Good thing I have the mpls locals in HD so I could watch the oscars. It is weird. My Dish vip 622 receiver reads 100 signal strength. Antenna web says that the xmtr is only 2 miles from me. I hook up the antenna to my tv receiver and only get static, but I go to my old non hd 13 inch tv with a small antenna and pick up the tv signal fine. It must have something to do with the digital stream.

The EC cable message now says:

| WQOW
| is having transmission problems
| affecting CW and High Definition
| Programming.
| Standard definition programming
| is available on channel 5
|
| WQOW is working on this problem

Does WXOW-DT in La Crosse work?
Last Wednesday my recording of Lost was in SD from WXOW-DT OTA. Must have just been a one day thing, because Grey's Anatomy recorded in HD on Thursday.

I hope it works fine this week, watching Lost in SD is painful. :)

WQOW-DT is back. Yay!

Anybody in the Chippewa Falls area on Charter have the picture quality go to crap this last week?? The digital channels are getting heavy pixelation randomly and the signal to my tivo not run thru the charter box is getting random white bars across the picture. I suppose I'll have to take a day off and have them come out and check the connection at the pole??????

The digital channels are getting heavy pixelation randomly and the signal to my tivo not run thru the charter box is getting random white bars across the picture.

Heavy snow can affect satellite transmission - even to stations and/or cable companies. I've had intermittent problems with most of the OTA stations locally the past week.

I have been getting a solid 68-72 signal from wkbt DT out of lacrosse, now I get nothing. Anybody else experiencing this, especially the Eau Claire people. This is OTA I am referring to.

I tried to get WKBT-DT later in the morning and got nothing. Usually, I get a great signal. I'm guessing they're off the air either for routine maintenance or because of trouble. Hopefully the former!

I and up and running again. Hope you are also sregener

Is it just me, or is the logo in the corner during WEAU's newscasts in HD? It seems clearer than everything else on the screen.

Is it just me, or is the logo in the corner during WEAU's newscasts in HD? It seems clearer than everything else on the screen.

Computer generated non-moving text and graphics always look sharper than images. WXOW/QOW looks the same.

Every local digital station (except, ironically, WLAX), is out of sync with their on-screen programm guide.

Don't get me started on WPT - all of their sub-channels are wrong, even after they thought they were fixing them. OOPS, too late, I already started. . .

Probably they messed up with DST.
On another note, it always makes me laugh when I see the on-screen guide descriptions for subpar movies. :)

You might want to recheck the signal for WYOW Eagle River. I live 40 miles south of the transmitter site in Langlade County. WYOW Analog has a viewable signal, but the past few days WYOW's digital signal has now locked on with 40% to 60% strength. This is with my antenna directed SSW to Wausau. They must have recently signed on at full power. A few weeks ago they weren't there.

WYOW-DT is showing up on my end as 28-3 and 28-4. Either my tuner is wierd or the station isn't sending the correct channel numbers. 28-3 is the regular feed in HD. 28-4 is the CW Network. I have no 28-1 or 28-2.

WJFW must have just recently signed on at full power. The signal wasn't there a month ago. One of my tuners are showing them at 12-1 and the other shows them at 16-1. Looks like they finally upgraded they were only previously transmitting 10 watts. Also 12-2 is on the air. But for now it seems to be simulcasting the regular feed. 12-1 has the HD icon on the bottom left of the screen when NBC is transmitting HD while 12-2 doesn't. Wierd.. :)

Might want to do a channel scan if you live in vilas county. I think you should be able to receive these signals now..



Am 12 miles due west of ER and cannot get their signal. Was told by a local ER electroncis installer that I was too far away! As I stated earlier, Park Falls comes in just fine. Difference seems to be related to the two station's power output. The installer stated that the ER signal is limited to a few miles surrounding it.

Does anyone on this forum get the 34.1 HD signal??? How far are you from it??

Rats!!! WYOW-DT in Eagle River signed on Channel 28.. and its throwing so much RF on Channel 29.. I can't get WAOW-DT anymore. Its no big deal.. WYOW-DT is just a simulcast of WAOW.. but still!!! I Didn't expect that to happen..

Since WJFW is apparently up and running at full power, is anyone in the Wausau area able to pull the NBC HD signal in?

I've been holding off on buying an OTA antenna, hoping the QAM tuner on my Sony CRT would allow me to access the station (like I can ABC and CBS). Any recommendations for OTA antennae?


Making matters worse, Charter finally locked down the video from TNT HD. Now all I get on the tuner that I wouldn't get OTA are other people's PPV programs.

I didn't pick them up in a scan....what frequency assignment do they have?

Why does WHWC-DT2 often air the same programming as the main channel? Right now, for instance. It seems like they took another PBS station's schedule and called it their own.

Why does WHWC-DT2 often air the same programming as the main channel? Right now, for instance. It seems like they took another PBS station's schedule and called it their own.
In a way, they have. WPT-1 (which used to be -2) mirrors the analog channel, and is the programming for Wisconsin's network only. These newly-added channels may include segments from outside sources, or may be wholely non-WPT ("syndication"), as is the case for "Create" (-3).

In addition, the Hi-Def channel (-5, previously -1), may run the same program at the same time, or just before or after WPT's schedule.

I believe one or both of the newest channels (-2 & -4) have been supplied to Madison cable companies in the past, without being OTA.

Can I confuse you even more?

WPT needs a better schedule for their new -2 channel. If -1 and -2 have the same stuff, what's the point? They don't need all that kids' shows on -2 anyway, because -1 has a bunch and -4 has kids' programming for 13 hrs. a day.

WPT needs a better schedule for their new -2 channel. If -1 and -2 have the same stuff, what's the point? They don't need all that kids' shows on -2 anyway, because -1 has a bunch and -4 has kids' programming for 13 hrs. a day.

Hello,

I'm the Director of Programming for Wisconsin Public Television. I want to address this concern directly as well as update the group on a few things. First, the -2 subchannel is only duplicative of the main (-1) channel at 7p to sign off (usually 1a). During the day (6a-7p) -2 is a mixture of PBS kids shows and UW telecourses. The entire lineup for -2 is changing in mid-to-late May and will be completely unduplicative of the main channel. The programs will be series like NOVA, Nature, American Experience, PBS mini-series and specials and WPT-produced documentaries.

Now on to the updates:

1. After weeks of phone calls, emails and frustrating delays the various television listings services for EPG's are correctly displaying our multicast and HD schedules. This means that listings displays for TiVo, TitanTV and all cable companies are correct.

2. I am pleased to tell you that WPT HD Saturday nights is expanding to every Saturday night beginning in April. I've attached the schedule here for your reference. The schedule of programs for Saturday nights will be full HD produced - no widescreen upconverts or "fake HD."

As always, thank you for watching Wisconsin Public Television!

garry

The problem is, while all the commercial networks are now rushing headlong into full-time HD (currently starting with the morning "news" shows, and ending with re-runs of Leno overnight), WPT had 24-hr HD (well, four nights a week). Now, it doesn't - and there seems to be even more same-night re-runs (not to mention that the total schedule is mostly re-runs this time of year).

What's worse, the stuff you are running on -2, -3, and -4 is all re-runs.

There really is a fundemental flaw in your program philosophy. Broadcast television as an educational content carrier is an idea whose time has come - and gone. Now you have Internet-2 (at least at universities) and DVD discs and who-knows-what in the future, which together can distribute almost unlimited and unique material to every institutional client in the state - all at once. Without interuption due to power loss, storms (with WB warnings), equipment failure or "Amber Alerts" corrupting the program.

The public has way too many choices (either through pay-tv or recorded media) so that you aren't offering very much unavailble elsewhere.

The ECB should relinquish control and/or ownership of WPT. And WPT needs a management overhaul.

The ECB should relinquish control and/or ownership of WPT. And WPT needs a management overhaul.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. My post here was for information purposes as I care what our viewers, digital and analog, think about our services and how we can better serve our communities.

Purely off-message: until you have 25 years in broadcast managment and television programming, and walk a mile in my shoes, it's entirely inappropriate to write that my organization needs a management overhaul. You don't know me and you certainly don't know my "programming philosophy." I don't know what your job or profession is, but I'm not so pompous as to believe or suggest I know enough about you or your work to publicly call for your dismissal. You simply don't know all the variables we have to deal with to bring these services to the people of Wisconsin. It's far more complex than your cursory and marginal assessment.

Don't forget - you have a remote control.

I want to participate on this forum, both as a way to learn and a way to inform. I do this part on my own free time and genuinely want to be a resource. If forum members like you can't be civil and constructive than please tell me my postings are unwanted and I'll cease participating.

garry

The entire lineup for -2 is changing in mid-to-late May and will be completely unduplicative of the main channel. The programs will be series like NOVA, Nature, American Experience, PBS mini-series and specials and WPT-produced documentaries.

Well, I for one appreciate your time on this forum. Maybe others don't realize the value of having the professionals, those "in the know" participate here, but I'm always grateful to engineers (and now programming coordinators) for donating any time to the public.

I also give stations the benefit of the doubt when new prgramming comes online. The decision to multicast is, I believe, sound. During the weekday, the audience is very fractured - nighttime workers, parents, children and more. A multiplex of varied programming serves the greatest good. It's good to know that WPT is working on removing duplication and will offer even more choices in the near future.

That said, I think we, the viewers, would like to see WPT-HD the way it ought to be - with a *maximum* of one bitrate starved SD channel. And the argument could be made for running WPT-HD all day (or at least an earlier start than 7pm) on weekends.

Roger and others, I respectfully submit that if you have a gripe with a station, that you keep your comments civil or air your complaints in letters to those who can actually do something - in this case, the ECB or the Wisconsin legislature. Calling for the firing of those who are posting on this forum is downright rude. Sure, we get frustrated sometimes, and think we could do better, but I suspect that we'd end up doing no better and likely a lot worse.

Thanks for all this good info. I get WPT-2 through cable, and it will be nice to have a PBS channel with completely different programming from the other two I get (analog WPT and KTCA).

My understanding is that WPT-2 will now have a completly different schedule from regular WPT when it's on, but (in regards to OTA DTV) it will still be off from 7p-6a. Is this correct?

You are correct. The WPT2 digital schedule will change to a new non-fiction lineup beginning Monday, May 28. I will post a schedule here, so look forward to daytime programs like NOVA, American Experience, Secrets of the Dead, Nature, and many PBS mini-series and specials.

The OTA HD is still 7p-6a only. Speaking of HD, I will also post tomorrow the WPT HD Saturday Night lineup for May. It's all HD and all good.

Thanks!

Garry Denny
Director of Programming
Wisconsin Public Television

Has anybody heard anything on when fox 48 might be moving to HD. I am tired of not have a Fox HD option. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

I don't know what will happen first, Fox 48 getting HD or a new station starting up and taking the affiliation from them. Fox 25/48 isn't even in stereo, but the network has nowhere else to go.

Has anybody heard anything on when fox 48 might be moving to HD. I am tired of not have a Fox HD option. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
I live about 80 miles north of Wausau and have DirecTV satellite service. For an extra $1.50 monthly fee I can get a Digital HD DNS (Distant Network Service) waiver for FOX HD to the national east(NY) or west(LA) feeds because there is no local HD available. At present that appears to be the only way to get FOX in HD.

That's correct - you can get Fox HD from New York (LA is no longer available in the Central time zone) through DirecTV or DishNetwork. It is part of the 2003 SHVRA regulations passed by the FCC.

I am in La Crosse and am using a SquareShooter that I got from Voom which worked well before. Using my Voom receiver the off-air signal quality stays mostly in the lower 90s, but sometimes drops off to the upper 40s. The off-air signal power/SNR is usually about 48/22, but when the bottom number drops to 0 there is no picture. The same thing happens when using my LST 4200a, but it only has a little rinky dink bar which shows signal strength to get any indication of what is happening.

As a comparison, my WXOW has an off-air signal quality of 99 and an off-air signal power/ SNR of 79/33 and hold rock solid. WHLA channel 31 has an off-air signal quality of 98 and its off-air signal power/SNR is about 78/29 (although once in a great while that bottom number will drop to 0 resulting in a picture loss.)

What can I do to improve this? I am not far from these stations so I should not need an amplifier. The same things happen on both receivers, it's just that the Voom receiver gives more info to get a handle on what is happening.

WLAX is at very low power (2.5kw or so) while the others are well over 100. Either a higher-gain antenna is needed (the Squareshooter is only around 4.5dB of gain compared to 10+ for most serious antennas) or patience for WLAX to boost power.

FWIW, WLAX-DT is only showing a 480i copy of WLAX analog as received at the transmitter tower. If you have a static- and ghost-free image of WLAX analog, WLAX-DT has nothing to offer you.

WLAX is at very low power (2.5kw or so) while the others are well over 100. Either a higher-gain antenna is needed (the Squareshooter is only around 4.5dB of gain compared to 10+ for most serious antennas) or patience for WLAX to boost power.

FWIW, WLAX-DT is only showing a 480i copy of WLAX analog as received at the transmitter tower. If you have a static- and ghost-free image of WLAX analog, WLAX-DT has nothing to offer you.

I just switched WLAX over to the analog signal. Its another switch to make while watching tv, but at least it comes in. The SquareShooter worked just fine for a long time though.

Did these guy's add more power? because last night I was able to pick up both of these in digital with 4 strong bars. I'm in 54853 using a CM4228 w/CM7777 pre-amp.

The other odd thing is my antenna is pointed for the Twin Cities. No digital of 48, but a decent analog.

Did these guy's add more power? because last night I was able to pick up both of these in digital with 4 strong bars.

We're getting to the time of year when tropospheric enhancement/ducting is very likely after sunset. When conditions are right, basically a layer of the atmosphere that normally allows the signal to pass through instead becomes a conductor - holding the signal closer to the ground and "bending" signals back towards the ground. The effect is that stations that are normally weak or nonexistant become strong - sometimes impossibly strong for the distances involved. Reception over 100-150 miles is not uncommon.

We're getting to the time of year when tropospheric enhancement/ducting is very likely after sunset. When conditions are right, basically a layer of the atmosphere that normally allows the signal to pass through instead becomes a conductor - holding the signal closer to the ground and "bending" signals back towards the ground. The effect is that stations that are normally weak or nonexistant become strong - sometimes impossibly strong for the distances involved. Reception over 100-150 miles is not uncommon.


Thats cool

Thanks for the fast reply

I had the same thing with WEAU from 54494 and picked up a Milwaukee radio station perfect at around 135 miles.

What exactly is this? I am using a Voom receiver and a SquareShooter antenna here in La Crosse and have gotten WHLA well for years. I will have an off-air signal quality in the upper 90s. The off-air signal power/snr will be about 77/29.76. Every once in awhile the signal quality will drop to 77 and then the off-air signal power/snr will drop to 77/00. Is my signal power actually the top number of the ratio? If so, what does the signal quality indicate. I don't understand what is going on and why I cannot hold a signal now.

My SquareShooter was originally aimed by the Voom installer pointed somewhat to the west and north to get WKBT, but I can now get WKBT using my CM 4228 that I have to pickup WEAU. Would I do better to reposition my SquareShooter more directly towards the southwest where the towers are just a few miles away?

I will have an off-air signal quality in the upper 90s. The off-air signal power/snr will be about 77/29.76. Every once in awhile the signal quality will drop to 77 and then the off-air signal power/snr will drop to 77/00. Is my signal power actually the top number of the ratio? If so, what does the signal quality indicate. I don't understand what is going on and why I cannot hold a signal now.

Signal quality - the percentage of bits received that are "good" as determined by the forward error correction (often abbreviated FEC.) Generally, this number needs to be above 66 to have a "perfect" picture and sound. Some receivers need things a little better, but none can cope with less than 66 and still deliver a breakup-free image.

SNR - Signal-to-Noise ratio. A measurement intended to show you whether you are receiving an adequate signal, as compared to the background noise of the atmosphere. Different receivers have different sensitivites, but obviously none can receive a signal when the SNR is 0.

So what is happening to your signal? For some reason, your tuner is losing its lock on the WHLA-DT signal. This could be caused by local (within a few hundred feet) interference or multipath confusing the tuner as to which signal is the real one. Finding the source of this and resolving it is probably well beyond the ability of the average home hobbyist, though an amateur radio club might take on the task as a fun experiment. It is also possible that your receiver itself is failing. Weak or loose connections may be deteriorating over time, causing you to have a poor connection. Make sure corrosion isn't eating away at your coaxial connections.

Your 4228 probably has way too much gain to use on stations just a couple of miles away - it will almost certainly overload. This will leave you with nothing worth watching that way. But it wouldn't hurt to try it, either, if getting to it isn't a big deal.

Beyond that, you're probably looking at hiring a professional or experimenting with different antennas (the Antennas Direct DB2 would be an interesting choice.)

...So what is happening to your signal? For some reason, your tuner is losing its lock on the WHLA-DT signal. This could be caused by local (within a few hundred feet) interference or multipath confusing the tuner as to which signal is the real one. Finding the source of this and resolving it is probably well beyond the ability of the average home hobbyist, though an amateur radio club might take on the task as a fun experiment. It is also possible that your receiver itself is failing. Weak or loose connections may be deteriorating over time, causing you to have a poor connection. Make sure corrosion isn't eating away at your coaxial connections.

One of the problems I've had to deal with, with OTA viewers, is antenna terminals and connectors that are corroded or oxidized. High frequencies are the first to experience degradation in quality LONG BEFORE the lower frequencies will exhibit similiar, if milder, symptoms...many times, the problems will stay in one particular area of the band and never show up in the lower band (UHF -vs- VHF).

On ALL CONNECTIONS, including balun transformers spade-lug teriminals and related components, clean the connections down to the bare metal, wipe off all dirt and oils (particularly from your hands...) with denatured alcohol. DO NOT USE ISOPROPYL or RUBBING ALCOHOL - This type of alcohol contains an oil in its mixture and will cause failure of the sealant to properly seal your connection against moisture migration.

The next point is to use a good sealant - one that doesn't contain any colors or is paintable - I use GE Silicone Sealant - Clear - Outdoor only. It won't heat up and cool down with the sun during and after the daylight has been beating on it AND if you put it on properly, you'll be able to see through the stuff to keep an eye on your connections for any sign of returning corrosion. The stuff isn't too expensive so don't be too frugal with it. Goop it on good and thick. The last thing you want to be doing is climbing around on your roof in the winter, cleaning corrosion off some little stupip "#@%$#!" connector when it's -10° outside. Believe me, that sucks...

...Your 4228 probably has way too much gain to use on stations just a couple of miles away - it will almost certainly overload. This will leave you with nothing worth watching that way. But it wouldn't hurt to try it, either, if getting to it isn't a big deal.

If you believe that there's too much signal (same symptoms as not enough...), get yourself an in-line variable-attenuator from RatShack...it's not too expensive and it's a fairly easy gizmo for the average DIYer to use around the house and you can even use it to impress your neighbors and maybe, even quiet down a noisy MIL... :p

If it turns out you do have too much signal overloading your reciever, the variable-attenuator may be calibrated enough to get you in the ballpark to come up with a dB. value that you can use to buy an in-line "fixed value" "F" style attenuator that you can screw right in-line, in place of the variable unit itself. Then it's off to save another TV set from improper signal-matching!

...Beyond that, you're probably looking at hiring a professional or experimenting with different antennas (the Antennas Direct DB2 would be an interesting choice.)

I'd try the first two items before option #3 - unless you know you don't want to risk taking a header off your roof...not too much fun watching the Packers, Vikings and/or Bears while you're in traction and peeing in a bag. :rolleyes:

One final note: I've found that pointing your antenna is critical in these matters. Not only are you dealing with getting the azimuth on and correct, BUT...

Elevation has a lot to do with reception quality, particularly if you happen to live with a 4-or-5-mile radius of the transmitting towers of your choice.

Broadcast signals "spray" (if you will) from the antenna in a circular "beam" - sorta' like those flower lawn sprinklers the kids dance under...you can imagine the signal to be like an "umbrella" - and the meat of the signal is that "umbrella" itself.

Well, if your receive antenna is pointed (azimuth-wise) towards the station, but the end is horizontal to the ground, you're not "scooping," or catching, the signal as best as you can. I've found that it's possible to gain as much as 10dB. of signal if the tip of the antenna is "tilted up" towards the top of the tower (assuming you have a "line-of-sight" view of the tower itself!) of the station you want to view.

All of this will take a little bit of time to do ... so slather on the sun-screen and have at it.

Your family will thank you for it...then again, maybe they won't care.

Just do it BEFORE it starts to turn cold... :eek: :D

:p

NOPE! DON'T GET TOO EXCITED...

This is about the signal the past week...

It seems that the "box" blew a PA Module last week...dropped out of it's AGC range and shut itself off (I believe this occured on the 21st)...

Anyways, once we figured out what part of the "box" crapped, an attempt was made to run the other amps a little harder (with the proper adjustments being made to the AGC circuitry) to keep a viewable signal out there...

Didn't work too well for too long...

So, until I get the replacement PA Module in (hopefully this week...), we're running at approx. 80% of 2.49 kW ERP..

So...pardon our dust...

Later!

They claim they are transmitting HDTV. Can anyone confirm? I live in Wausau. Am I going to be able to get it over an antenna less than a mile in the air? Any word on Charter's plans to include in the signal via QAM?

While we're on the subject, any word on Fox?

There is nothing more annoying than watching a Fox or NBC show and have it brag about digital HDTV and you have to watch letterboxed NTSC.

Thanks for any input,
Mike

According to the FCC, WJFW-DT-16 is at full power (269kw) with a projected coverage area that reaches Wausau. If you have a decent outdoor antenna aimed the right way, you should have no trouble.

Mike,

I keep bugging WFXS and I would not hold my breath on them going digital. I don't think they have a digital number assigned yet and when that is done they need to get all of the hardware going. I think late 2008 might be a more realistic time frame, but i hope to wrong.

I thought the latest was WJFW was doing digital but on very low power so if you don't live within a few miles of the tower good luck. How about pulling in Eau Clare, I can do it from Rapids or does Rib Mt cause problems?

Dave

According to the FCC, WJFW-DT-16 is at full power (269kw) with a projected coverage area that reaches Wausau. If you have a decent outdoor antenna aimed the right way, you should have no trouble.

I guess I'm only half right?

Here is the answer right from WJFW
http://www.wjfw.com/pages/HDTVfaq.html

I have read that and exchanged emails with the guy that wrote it. I was hoping for some personal experience before I start erecting towers.

Thanks,
Mike

I haven't tried WJFW in a month or so...I'll give it a shot tonight and report back.

I live in New London and have been getting channel 12.1 and 12.2 for quite a while (DTV channel 16). WFXS has been granted DTV channel 50. Looke here and scroll down to Wisconsin:

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-06-150A1.pdf

edit: Yes, channel 12 out of Rhinelander has been in HD for a while. Their second digital channel, 12.2, broadcasts in stretched Standard Definition DTV.

second edit:SCROLL WAAAAY DOWN!! The first tables only gives cities and channel numbers, but way down towards the bottom gives tables that show all the information about the final channel elections.

Where is WJFW's tower located? I just tried and am still unable to get it. Neither antennaweb or titantv show it as available either.

Find your latitude and longitude for your house (can be found at antennaweb.org after finding your EXACT address. Then, go to:

http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp

Type in your L&L and point your antenna in the direction listed for the channel you wish to get. This site takes magnetic inclination into account, if you enter it. (you can find this online also...it will change based on your L&L. Find a site that will figure it for you, then input that into the "magnetic inclination" box. This is needed for accurate compass readings!!!) It is extremely accurate.

Heck, here's a map:

http://tiger.census.gov/cgi-bin/mapgen/map.gif?lon=-89.208056&lat=45.6675&iwd=750&iht=750&mlon=-89.208056&mlat=45.6675&msym=smalldot&mlabel=WJFWDT&on=majroads,streets,water,miscell,counties,places,railroad,C ITIES&off=GRID,shorelin,cen_blkg,censusb,con_dist,indian,msa,tract s&ht=0.2 &wid=0.2

Where is WJFW's tower located? I just tried and am still unable to get it. Neither antennaweb or titantv show it as available either.
See attached map for WJFW-DT's location and coverage.

Best regards,
Andy

Thanks Andy.

I have an email over to Fox 55 and will keep you posted on what news Robert has for me.

Dave

After a few email messages with Fox 55 I can sum up the situation. There are a lot of what if's with the FCC and the channel assignment right now. The digital channel 50 is not set in stone and can change. To make it even more simple if you see a construction permit issued to them things are moving until then it could happen next week or years from now.

Nothing is ever set in stone. However, if WFXS wishes to change the channel designation, they will have to wait until the entire process has ended, then apply for the change. It continually says that these tables are the tentative final channel allotments, but it does also describe exactly when and how these allotments can be changed. Workning with the CFR on a daily basis, I can tell you that once the government writes their guidelines and rules in the CFR, there is very little "wiggle room". I will be amazed if WFXS goes digital on a channel other than channel 50.

On the other hand, I love the channel designation. Living in New London, my local channels are the Green Bay / Appleton market channels. They will consist of VHF channel 11 and UHF channels ranging from 21 to 42. The Wausau market channels will be on VHF 7 and 9 along with UHF channels 16, 24 and 50. Since 24 is the same PBS station EXACTLY as channnel 42 in Green Bay, I will be able to use multiple antennas and easily get all of the Green Bay stations plus the Wausau / Wittenberg ? Rhinelander stations except PBS 24 (which I will block) without any major interference.

Hello all!

I just (finally) jumped on the hd bandwagon here folks. I've read all the posts under this thread and I'm just looking for an update from anyone in the Eau Claire area using DirecTv HD on a couple of things....

1. Do I understand correctly, still the only HD channels that we can receive are WEAU (NBC), WQOW (ABC), WKBT (CBS) and WHWC (PBS I think)? And these are only available using an OTA antenna right?

2. I'm just curious what you all are using for an OTA antenna? Any better than others or what? And this is the antenna I'm plugging into the back of the satellite receiver correct?

I just got off the phone with DTV and they filed my waivers for all the local hd networks, but I'm assuming the only one that will be approved will be Fox, since I believe that's the only one not available OTA in hd. We'll see.....

Thanks for any info folks, and any other advice you may have for a noob hd lover!!

Hello all!

I just (finally) jumped on the hd bandwagon here folks. I've read all the posts under this thread and I'm just looking for an update from anyone in the Eau Claire area using DirecTv HD on a couple of things....


1. Check this site at DBS Talk http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=65321 to see what locals are available in HD. It's updated regularly; OTA is your only option if you are close enough to the towers to get their signal.

2. There's an additional monthly fee of $1.50 per national feed if eligible besides the $9.99 HD access fee. You can determine what waivers you qualify for at http://directvdnseligibility.decisionmark.com/app/addressform.aspx

1. Do I understand correctly, still the only HD channels that we can receive are WEAU (NBC), WQOW (ABC), WKBT (CBS) and WHWC (PBS I think)? And these are only available using an OTA antenna right?
If you're closer to the twin cities, you may have other choices, othrwise that's pretty nmuch it. Note that WPT (PBS) is not carrying the full PBS HD feed anymore, so what you get will not be what it used to be.


2. I'm just curious what you all are using for an OTA antenna? Any better than others or what? And this is the antenna I'm plugging into the back of the satellite receiver correct??
NO "OTA" means, "Over the Air". anything you may have seen in the past perched on a rooftop, or the UHF "Loop" on the back of a portable MAY get you a usable signal for your locals, however, you might want to try an amplified antenna. I note that TARGET had some in stock recently,, otherwise look at Radio Shack, or any local TV dealer.

I'm not going to get into a knock-down, drag-out fight over WPT's programming.

Suffice tio say, I've deleted the whole mess from all my scan lists.

(They stopped subscribing to the full PBS feed last year, and got so many complaints they had to restore it. Now they are substituting the cheapest syndicated HD Stuff they can find,and running it 2-3 times a day, just to fill up time.)

They stopped subscribing to the full PBS feed last year, and got so many complaints they had to restore it.
Wait. What? They are still only airing HD from 7p-6a.

and Fox 55 wont be on HD for awhile.
(ps. Robert's a cool guy)
:cool:

Cheers

I agree Robert has been more than helpful over the last 3 years or so I have been bugging him about Fox 55 and HD.

Does anyone know if WJFW plans on putting an HDTV repeater up on Mosinee Hill, much like ch. 27 in the Wausau area now?

Does anyone know if WJFW plans on putting an HDTV repeater up on Mosinee Hill, much like ch. 27 in the Wausau area now?
My guess would be that ch. 27 will become a digital repeater in 2009. I couldn't tell you for sure, since I'm in Eau Claire and mostly keep track of WEUX (pretty much a hopeless cause.)

We just got a letter from Charter stating that they are expanding there HD lineup and are adding A&E HD, ESPN2HD, MOJO HD, and they also stated they are adding WFXS-HD and WJFW-HD. This is for the Wausau area and will begin August 28th.

I find it interesting that WFXS is being offered in HD when they have made no statement they will be broadcasting in HD anytime soon. Will Charter be using the digital signal from the FOX station in Green Bay or have things suddenly proceeded quickly for WFXS and they will be in HD in a month? Either way I'm pretty excited to be able to watch the Packers in HD and be able to catch my favorite NBC and FOX shows in HD.

Please give Robert at Fox 55 a call and see if this is true. I assume it is since charter mailed letters out, but it doesn't hurt to double check.

I got this letter as well. Great news if it is true. I have been using QAM devices to get high def through Charter and it works well without the need for an antenna.

Are WEAU-DT, WQOW-DT, and WEUX-DT at full power yet?

Here in Duluth, I regularly see the two stations when tropo enhancement is up, but I have only received WEUX-DT once and WQOW-DT / WEAU-DT perhaps twice. I've seen WHWC-DT numerous times.

I receive the MSP DT stations far more often, most of which AFAIK are at full power.

Are WEAU-DT, WQOW-DT, and WEUX-DT at full power yet?

Others probably know more about this than I do, but the answer is probably:

WEAU-DT: Yes
WQOW-DT: Almost (probably a side-mounted antenna that will be moved up come 2009.)
WEUX-DT: No Way! Almost hamster-wheel generated power levels. Truly an impressive catch of this sub-10kw station.

It's worth noting that full power is not always 1000kw, as most of the Twin Cities stations are. In smaller markets, stations are going with significantly lower power levels to save money. The difference in predicted coverage with a 250kw station is really only a few miles less than with 1000kw. But as you've no doubt found out, with long-distance reception, the extra power really makes a difference.

I built a MythTV box with an HDTV tuner. I currently have Charter Basic Cable with Internet and can receive the HDTV "digital lifeline" channels over QAM. Does anyone know if one can receive the digital lifeline stations over QAM *without* a basic cable subscription, only cable internet? From my understanding, the internet goes over the same frequencies as the QAM, and the QAM isn't encrypted, so it should still work even with a filter that blocks the analog basic cable stations, right? Thanks.

Does anyone know if one can receive the digital lifeline stations over QAM *without* a basic cable subscription, only cable internet?

I think this request is a violation of the terms of service, as you would be essentially stealing Charter's programming. If you check your documentation from Charter, it explicitly forbids you from watching programming you aren't paying for, and if it were to be discovered (which would be easy enough with a subpoena to AVSForum) that you did so knowingly, you'd be liable for damages and fines.

Lifeline isn't that expensive, so why not pay for what you intend to watch?

This is drifting off-topic, but I'm not talking about or endorsing channel theft here. Based on FCC rules, cable companies are required to allow users with any level of service to access the local channels, those one can receive free over the air with an antenna ("lifeline"), to be able to receive them over cable in an unencrypted form. However, some cable companies are not following the letter of the law and have been encrypting even these free local channels. Charter has not been encrypting them, but I'm asking if anyone knows if they are preventing people *with a level of service* from viewing them.

Based on FCC rules, cable companies are required to allow users with any level of service to access the local channels, those one can receive free over the air with an antenna ("lifeline"), to be able to receive them over cable in an unencrypted form. However, some cable companies are not following the letter of the law and have been encrypting even these free local channels. Charter has not been encrypting them, but I'm asking if anyone knows if they are preventing people *with a level of service* from viewing them.

The FCC declared in 2002 that Internet service was not a "cable service" but an "information service."

I have yet to see anything from the FCC requiring cable companies not to encrypt the HD signals from local stations. In fact, the FCC has yet to rule in favor of any digital must-carry rules, meaning cable systems don't have to and cannot be forced to carry the digital signals of broadcast affiliates. Not that it matters for most, as "retransmission consent" is the typical way major broadcast stations get on cable systems.

You could call Charter and ask, because if you're right and they're required to provide those signals unencrypted, they should have no trouble telling you so.

We just got a letter from Charter stating that they are expanding there HD lineup and are adding A&E HD, ESPN2HD, MOJO HD, and they also stated they are adding WFXS-HD and WJFW-HD. This is for the Wausau area and will begin August 28th.

I find it interesting that WFXS is being offered in HD when they have made no statement they will be broadcasting in HD anytime soon. Will Charter be using the digital signal from the FOX station in Green Bay or have things suddenly proceeded quickly for WFXS and they will be in HD in a month? Either way I'm pretty excited to be able to watch the Packers in HD and be able to catch my favorite NBC and FOX shows in HD.

I just received a reply back from Robert at Fox 55 and he said it was an error on Charter's part. I guess you can wait and see what happens on 8/28. Sorry for the bad news unless this was unoffical news that leaked out by Charter to early.

Others probably know more about this than I do, but the answer is probably:

WEAU-DT: Yes
WQOW-DT: Almost (probably a side-mounted antenna that will be moved up come 2009.)
WEUX-DT: No Way! Almost hamster-wheel generated power levels. Truly an impressive catch of this sub-10kw station.

It's worth noting that full power is not always 1000kw, as most of the Twin Cities stations are. In smaller markets, stations are going with significantly lower power levels to save money. The difference in predicted coverage with a 250kw station is really only a few miles less than with 1000kw. But as you've no doubt found out, with long-distance reception, the extra power really makes a difference.

Hmm. Last night I had "almost" signals from WQOW-DT and WEAU-DT here. WHWC-DT was in, but that one's quite common here.

The prize of the night (or morning), however, was KDLT-DT, 302 miles :)

I built a MythTV box with an HDTV tuner. I currently have Charter Basic Cable with Internet and can receive the HDTV "digital lifeline" channels over QAM. Does anyone know if one can receive the digital lifeline stations over QAM *without* a basic cable subscription, only cable internet? From my understanding, the internet goes over the same frequencies as the QAM, and the QAM isn't encrypted, so it should still work even with a filter that blocks the analog basic cable stations, right? Thanks.


You get Charter's "digital lifeline" channels over QAM? They're in the clear? Not at my house,.... and I even pay for them! The only way to watch them is through their "box". I'm in La Crosse (where there's no Fox HD - just to remind everyone) where is your Charter HD "clear"?

You get Charter's "digital lifeline" channels over QAM? They're in the clear? Not at my house,.... and I even pay for them! The only way to watch them is through their "box". I'm in La Crosse (where there's no Fox HD - just to remind everyone) where is your Charter HD "clear"?
To get QAM channels you need a TV with a QAM tuner, or a set-top box. I've seen the lifeline channels come in the clear through QAM here in Eau Claire, too. Too bad none of our TVs have digital tuners :(

You get Charter's "digital lifeline" channels over QAM? They're in the clear? Not at my house,.... and I even pay for them! The only way to watch them is through their "box". I'm in La Crosse (where there's no Fox HD - just to remind everyone) where is your Charter HD "clear"?
I live in Onalaska and they are in the clear, (the locals), and Fox isn't HD too.

But I've actually asked the question to Charter about getting just Cable Internet v.s. Basic Cable and Cable Internet, it's possible, but they actually charge more for just internet than the package. So just enjoy what you have, you are saving money. (It's about $1 more to have both rather than just internet).

Good Afternoon from Wausau. I thought I would chime in on the discussion and say hello.

I live one mile north of downtown between 5th and 6th street. I am getting 7,9 and 12 digital with $8 RCA "rabbit ears". Fox 55 and 27 does no come in well right now.

I'd have to say I'm very impressed with the HD content from 20-5, 7-1 and 9-1 when they are broadcasting in 1080i/720p in the evenings. Sometimes I experience a slight audio lag from 20-5, but I would assume this is a result of the actual source broadcast?

I am trying to decide how crazy I want to go with an antenna. I purchased a powered RCA antenna yesterday from Target with almost no improvement over the simple rabbit ear w/uhf "loop." I plan on taking it back and trying the Phillips Indoor/Outdoor MANT940 mounted out my deck. I live in a second story apartment. There aren't too many obstructions.

I've read through most of the posts in the thread and it seems some are able to receive channel 12 out of Rhinelander and/or 13 out of Eau Claire in digital. I'm debating if it's worth spending the money for an antenna to get one, perhaps two additional channels.

Feedback would be greatly appreciated!

I've been lurking around this forum for the past few months and the information is top notch!

Make sure Rib Hill isn't in your line of sight if you try getting channel 13. You might have better luck with 12. A simple Channel Master 4228 might pull in channel 12 if you go with an external antenna.

Make sure Rib Hill isn't in your line of sight if you try getting channel 13. You might have better luck with 12. A simple Channel Master 4228 might pull in channel 12 if you go with an external antenna.

Hello and thanks for the advice! If Rib Mountain (hill, :p) is in line of site may this cause too much signal interference?

I was looking at the Channel Master, but it's quite large. I'll be speaking with our landlords for permission to mount an antenna and also I am going to see if they have any concerns about size. If they refuse to allow me to mount an antenna it looks like I'll be limited to something that can fit on my deck or an amplified indoor antenna.

As far as going from a standard "rabbit ears w/uhf loop" to the powered RCA model. It's odd when I turn up the amp on the powered antenna the signal doesn't necessarily improve at all. The antenna has two separate dials, one for UHF and one for VHF. When I turn the VHF amp up at all my TV can no longer receive the HD channels. I'm guessing because this brings to much "noise" into the antenna.

It looks like I have quite a lot to learn about this brave new (or should I say old) world of antennas!

It's odd when I turn up the amp on the powered antenna the signal doesn't necessarily improve at all.

Not odd at all. Your receiver has a "signal quality" meter, not a true signal strength meter. So when it gives you, say 92%, what it's saying is that 92% of the bits it receives are correct (as measured by the error-correction codes.) While a weak signal (which looks like "snow" on analog stations) is one potential problem with reception - and the only one that can be helped with amplification - there are other potential problems as well that don't have anything to do with the actual power level of the signal being received. Unless your problem is actually a low voltage signal, an amplifier isn't going to do you any good.

The Channel Master 4228 is a great antenna. 4' high, 4' wide, 2" deep. Not bad for a 16dB raw gain antenna. If that's too big, the 4221 is 4' high and only 2' wide. Half the gain (13dB) though. (If you're wondering dB is a logarithmic scale where 3dB equals exactly twice the power.) The best indoor antenna is the Terk HDTVi/HDTVa/Zenith Silver Sensor. Any of them is a dramatic improvement over a simple UHF loop. Most other indoor antennas out there are inferior to the UHF loop or bowtie.

Is WEUX-DT up to full power now? I just had about a minute or two of a nice, stable, full signal from them. Also had them last night.

I've seen a few new channels on my QAM tuner over the past week (one of the religious channels, as well as duplicates of the CBS/MyNetwork stations...

...but still no WJFW HD! :mad:

I've already lost G4 and GSN, could they at least get one part of this "upgrade" right....please? (I'm not even going to mention the tease of adding WFXS HD just before the Packer season.)

Is anyone who pays for Charter's HD package able to get the WJFW HD? (I can't believe that they'd leave an extra Green Bay station unlocked, but lock down the HD station I've been waiting nearly a year for.)

Is WEUX-DT up to full power now? I just had about a minute or two of a nice, stable, full signal from them. Also had them last night.
According to the FCC website, on August 21, 2007, WEUX was granted special temporary authority to broadcast at its current low power until February 21, 2008.

What they should just do is get a 5 kw transmitter, put it as high as they can up their tower, which would make their effective power about 50 kw.
Not a lot of juice, but it would go 60 miles if they are high enough.

I got this letter as well. Great news if it is true. I have been using QAM devices to get high def through Charter and it works well without the need for an antenna.


Mike,
Any luck getting Fox 55 now?

According to the FCC website, on August 21, 2007, WEUX was granted special temporary authority to broadcast at its current low power until February 21, 2008.

What they should just do is get a 5 kw transmitter, put it as high as they can up their tower, which would make their effective power about 50 kw.
Not a lot of juice, but it would go 60 miles if they are high enough.

http://www.wfxs.com/CFForumsExpress/index.cfm?page=viewForumTopic&topicId=323&pageNo=1#67A32904-D0B7-8295-0E38331EC427605Bthread2205

Posted last Wednesday:

Our lawyers and engineers are crunching the numbers.. The channel and power allocation (ERP) does not cover the full area or population that we requested and we're trying to figure out if the allocation can be fixed or improved.. There is also a potential for interference from another channel that exceeds the FCC's own threshholds, so i'm not sure what the FCC was thinking.. Or more likely not thinking.. It might be necessary to look at another channel and see if we can get more power allocated.


When we actually get to the bottom of the legal and engineering issues, we'll try to give viewers an update on the process.


As for you thoughts on 12 going to 16, and low power 4 going to 12, I stopped trying to figure out the method to the madness a long time ago.. If you are looking for a solid plan behind this digital transition, you will be looking for a very long time.

I think Fox 55 was allocated Digital Channel 50. There is already a digital channel 50 assigned in Eau Claire and Madison. That's a little too close for comfort..

It looks like Channel 7 digital will actually move to channel 7 (I think channel 7 is now on digital channel 40)

Channel 9 Digital will move to Channel 9... (channel 9 is acutally on Digital Channel 29.

Hello.. This probably isn't the right place to post this.. but My run down local cable system was recently bought out by Packerland Broadband out of Iron Mountain. It looks like this new company is on the right track and upgrading the lines to fiber optic. My cable system is probably early 80's technology.

Anyway.. Does anyone know much about this company? Anybody have them for a provider? They are already planning to roll out internet, digital cable, and phone service to my area as early as November.. . I was just wondering what prices I can expect for digital cable when it becomes available.. Or if they offer any HD packages in other markets?