LaCrosse / Wausau, WI - HDTV [Text View] - Page 5

willscary

02-12-09, 06:26 PM

Well, I am not positive how the reception will be for 8 and 13. I am a LONG ways away! However...I have a single 91XG pointed between WFXS (Fox 55 Wausau) and NBC channel 12 WJFW in Rhinelander. With this setup, I can also get PBS out of Wausau and all of my digital stations in Green Bay. My problem is that with this setup, the Green Bay stations are received from the back of the 91XG. Channel 5 out of Green Bay transmits its digital signal on physical channel 39. Right now, WEAU 13 is also on 39. This will change with the switch and I will no longer have interference. Channel 5 is the 2nd most powerful Green Bay station for me, but it cuts out a lot due to the interference. On the flip side, all of the Green Bay stations lost transmitter power due to a fire at an electrical substation a few weeks ago. Power to all of the digital transmitters was lost for about 6 hours. During that time, I was able to receive channel 13's digital signal AND channel 8 (WKBT)'s digital channel (physical channel 41) perfectly. Channel 26 in Green Bay broadcasts their digital signal on physical channel 41.

I need these stations all to switch over so I can see what my 2 antenna setup is capable of. I would love to NOT have to install my other 2 antennas. Then I could keep the other Funke in mothballs until this one wears out!

Bill

gjvrieze

02-12-09, 06:47 PM

gjvrieze

02-12-09, 06:54 PM

Hey, does anyone know if WEAU does Jeopardy (or any of the other syndicated programming) in HD?

eziemann

02-12-09, 07:18 PM

WEAU NBC 13 Eau Claire usually has the rerun of Jeopardy (from about 1 year ago) and the current day's program in HD.

willscary

02-12-09, 07:21 PM

Wheel of Fortune also!

audiorevolver

02-12-09, 11:47 PM

Has there been any word on new channels coming post-transition? In a commercial on WEAU, a television was clearly showing a Universal Sports logo. Also, any word on RTN coming to the WQOW sub-station? Too be quite honest, I would rather see The CW in HD before they jump the gun on a new station.

Trip in VA

02-13-09, 12:09 AM

WBIJ has a buyer. It's WAOW/WYOW.

- Trip

mattdp

02-13-09, 12:23 AM

WXOW/WQOW are supposed to have RTN some time (don't know any time lines on this). Our local KXLT (FOX 47) is supposed to add RTN "early 2009" but needs to get the equipment to do a subchannel (their co-owned sister station KTTC really, really need an upgrade on their 2000 era MPEG encoders).

This is just a personal hunch, but I think this is more or less the game plan on DTV for stations:
-Get the transition over with
-Do power upgrades (if necessary)
-Upgrade MPEG encoders (we have one station with '00 era encoders and another expressing plans to get new ones in order to improve picture/add 3subs [CBS HD, MyN, Weather]
-Get equipment for subchannels (ie, RTN)
-Upgrade analog translators

I guess what I've gathered is that a lot of stations have plans to get better encoders, add subchannels, increase power, etc... After analog goes off the air, their engineering staff can allocate more time to these ends, and also stations can allocate money used to pay analog power bills + maintain the transmitter towards digital gear. Of course the problem of the recession has to be factored in. With the extended June 12th deadline and less $$$ to go around, some of this stuff might get pushed off longer.

elocs

02-13-09, 01:07 AM

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15807551#post15807551

Post #2269
"For stations that continue to broadcast an analog signal, why not think outside of the box (literally) that has been used for all these months to warn of the switch? How about having a crawl message across the middle of the screen, but with no picture? You could broadcast only the evening news programs and give weather announcements if needed, but with the crawl message clearly indicating that all regular programming can be seen with digital. So people could still get news, weather, and emergency announcements, but this would slap them up alongside the head that there will be a switch to digital.

This is just brainstorming and I literally just thought of this off the top of my head. People should already have no reason to not be informed of the switch, but this would really, really give them no excuse.

I'll also say what I've said before about the "what about the poor and elderly" excuse I have seen. I have more respect for both the poor and elderly to believe they are all stupid and unaware of the switch or to believe they are unable or unwilling to ask for help. There is no reason to be unaware of the switch, but there should also be no reason why those who needed help could not have received it from many, many sources including very local sources."

I live on the north side of La Crosse and get all of my digital stations just fine. I had to get a separate antenna to get WEAU, but that's just fine now, too. I bought a converter box for my old 19" tv in the bedroom and it now has the best picture it ever has had and I am very satisfied. It's the best $10 I ever spent.

elocs

02-13-09, 01:17 AM

http://lacrossetribune.com/articles/2009/02/13/news/03digital.txt

"WXOW-TV in La Crosse and sister station WQOW in Eau Claire plan to continue broadcasting an analog signal with very limited programming for 60 days, starting Tuesday.

The decision comes after the Federal Communications Commission on Wednesday identified 123 stations that won’t be allowed to shut off their analog signal Tuesday unless they meet certain conditions.
“We’ll do one local newscast each weekday, the 6 p.m. newscast,” said David Booth, general manager of WXOW and WQOW. The stations’ analog signals also will carry emergency information, such as weather alerts.

The stations at other times will continuously run an educational video in English and Spanish on becoming digital-ready, he said.

Booth’s two stations also will continue to broadcast a digital signal.

The other full-power stations in the La Crosse-Eau Claire market will go ahead with plans to discontinue their analog signals Tuesday, Booth said.

The 123 stations singled out by the FCC serve 43 markets and include six stations in the La Crosse-Eau Claire market: WXOW, WKBT and WLAX in La Crosse; WQOW and WEAU in Eau Claire and WEUX in Chippewa Falls.

In a public notice late Wednesday, the FCC said the planned early termination of the 123 stations’ analog signals “poses a significant risk of substantial public harm.” But it gave the OK to 368 other stations to turn off their analog signals Tuesday."

More at the link.

elocs

02-13-09, 01:23 AM

"I am not a fan of Charter. From what I hear they may need to file bankruptcy in the coming months. They also face becoming pulled from the NASDAQ exchange unless the stock improves. Yesterday they were 8 cents a share.. They went up to 11 cents today."

Charter to file for Chapter 11 protection:
http://lacrossetribune.com/articles/2009/02/13/news/04charter.txt

"PHILADELPHIA — Struggling Charter Com-munications Inc., the nation’s fourth largest cable operator, said Thursday that it plans to file a prearranged Chapter 11 bankruptcy by April 1.

Charter, which is controlled by Microsoft Corp. co-founder Paul Allen, said it has reached an agreement in principle with holders of $8 billion in debt who will give up repayment of their debt. In return, they will receive common shares, or warrants for rights to get common shares, that translate to nearly owning the entire company after bankruptcy.
Allen will remain as an investor and retain the largest voting interest. While his 51 percent stake in the company will be wiped out, along with those of other shareholders as the stock is canceled, Allen was given voting control by debt holders. Allen also holds some debt, which will be converted, and preferred stock.

Charter, which serves the La Crosse area, did not return telephone calls Thursday on how the Chapter 11 bankruptcy might affect area customers.

In a prearranged bankruptcy, a company enters into reorganization with a plan to emerge that has the approval ofmajor stakeholders. The rest of the creditors will be dealt with through bankruptcy court. In a prepackaged bankruptcy, each creditor has voted on the plan before the filing."

More at the link.

I don't have Charter tv, but have their internet.

Trevord

02-14-09, 05:24 PM

Does anyone know which channel in the Wausau/Rhinelander market will not be shutting off its analog channel on February 17?

doughboy1013

02-14-09, 06:12 PM

WSAW just had a crawl on their 24/7 Weather Channel restating the shutoff for their station only (so far) at 11:55pm on 2/16. WJFW also notes the same time on their website. WAOW (as noted on their website) and WFXS are still looking at noon on 2/17 as far as I know.

FYI

Trevord

02-14-09, 07:14 PM

This is some news about the Wausau/Rhinelander TV Market that was posted online 13 minutes ago. It talks about the digital transition.

http://www.myfoxwausau.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=8352282&version=3&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1

willscary

02-14-09, 09:10 PM

Here is the LATEST, from Fox 55 in Wausau:

http://www.myfoxwausau.com/myfox/pages/InsideFox/Detail?contentId=8352282&version=3&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=5.1.1

They give good details on many of the broadcasters in the Wausau market. We all know that WPT is NOT going dark with analog in Wausau on the 17th (bummer, because their analog channel 20 interferes dramatically with digital WIWB 14 physical channel 21 from Green Bay).

Bill

willscary

02-14-09, 09:11 PM

Sorry trevord! My page did not show any new posts and I posted without seeing your post!

Bill

gjvrieze

02-14-09, 09:49 PM

WEAU's web site shows that they will be shutting down analog and moving back to VHF on Monday over the lunch hour....

Trevord

02-15-09, 10:11 AM

Trip in VA

02-15-09, 10:13 AM

It's good that WFXS is going to digital right away and not waiting until June. But is it going to be in digital on February 17 or February 18 because the website says February 18 and the crawl at the top of the tv channel right now says February 17 at midnight

Under the old law, the last possible moment the stations could operate in analog was 11:59:59PM on February 17, with the digitals being allowed to light up at 12:00:00AM on February 18. Perhaps that is what's going on here.

- Trip

gjvrieze

02-15-09, 11:03 AM

Under the old law, the last possible moment the stations could operate in analog was 11:59:59PM on February 17, with the digitals being allowed to light up at 12:00:00AM on February 18. Perhaps that is what's going on here.

- Trip

I think with WFXS, they are just "waiting" for the tower crew to finish mounting the new antenna, it read in the story that the antenna would go up Monday or Tuesday... Sounded like the feed line is installed already (prolly done on days with too much wind to work "outside" the tower... (it has been pretty windy in the Midwest lately...)

willscary

02-15-09, 11:16 AM

gjvrieze

02-15-09, 11:27 AM

jgvrieze,

Now that you have had it for a few weeks, how big of a difference is the Funke from the YA-1713?

I still get a fair picture on WEAU analog, even though you said they dropped to 25% power. I am also wondering if channel 8 LaCrosse dropped their analog power. If they are still at 100% analog power, I may not get great digital reception.

Oh well, I will know a lot more in 50 or so hours!

Bill

Haha, funny you should ask! Been thinking about this a "lot"!

WEAU-TV seems to come in 24/7... Late nights and early morning, it looks super, during the daytime, like right now, it looks fairly poor, still in color and good audio.. I have Monk on right now, it is about the worst that it gets right now... I strongly suspect the fact that they are 6dB down, makes a HUGE difference when you are 86+ miles out from the tower... That said, I "think" I will be able to lock the digital, hopefully 24/7, I REALLY want Jeopardy in HD! We are only 26hours from the switch for WEAU, so we will know soon!
OT: I do get KARE-TV and KMSP-TV (both VHF-HI) analogs pretty decent,, much much better then I would have thought with a 200+ hill right in front me in that direction.. I think WEAU is going to be "easier" because of fact that I am further from the hills in the direction... (there a water tower 1.3 miles out in almost the exact direction as WEAU, so it is easy to check my aim from the ground [which I did this morning])

EDIT:

Forgot to add, that I get a pretty decent picture on WKBT-TV with my antenna parked for WEAU, which is between 15-20 degrees off aim... It still looks good to me, at 56+ miles, I think I would notice the power being lowered and I have not seen that at 3 difference sites in the area, where I have done antenna work this weekend... (my antenna is kind of up against a tree in the direction of WKBT, as it is on the roof at the moment... If it works out good, I may move it up the tower...)

EDIT 2: I also should have added that all the channels look poor this morning, were great at 5AM, but pretty poor now (when did you last look at WKBT-TV?)

willscary

02-15-09, 11:45 AM

I had a pleasant surprise myself on Friday. I was the last person out of the office and went to shut off the radio. Right above the radio is a small portable TV/VCR combo that is hooked (Along with the radio) to an attic antenna. This analog TV has terrible reception. The reception is barely watchable through the snow. The roof on our office is standing seam heavy metal. Very poor for signal penetration.

Anyways, I had 2 suggestions for getting the locals on this TV after the transition. I first suggested a DTVPal TR-40 converter box. I also suggested that the antenna most likely would need to be mounted ABOVE the roof instead of in the attic.

When I went to shut off the radio, I noticed a DTVPal box sitting next to the TV. Me being me, I had to open it and set it up. To my surprise, 3 of the 5 local stations were crystal clear in digital! the 2 that were not captured are at antenna locations about 50 degrees from the main tower. Also, the 3 that are captured contain a total of 8 subchannels, so they are in great shape, missing, for the moment, only FOX and NBC, but receiving ABC, CBS, MyNetwork TV, The CW, and the 3 PBS feeds. Also, in the future, they will get another sub-channel, which will be either RTN or ThisTV.

You never quite know how this digital switch will pan out!

Bill

DA1745

02-15-09, 08:10 PM

Did you mean analog 13, or digital 39? Analog 13, is running at 25% power until they flash cut on Feb 17th....
I can barely get a signal now. It had been perfect up until a few days ago.
Of course, I am 112 miles away.
I am glad to know it is the station. i thought my antenna may have moved in the wind the last few days.
Bill Good to see it wasn't just me/us. It was both (analog & Digital) but the digital would go out completely from time to time due to just being on the cusp of an acceptable signal level. But other times the meter would drop to nothing... very strange? Oh, well I was thinking and hoping it wasn't just me so I've just been waiting patiently until they really power up digital strength; then we/I should be in good shape. I'm kind of looking forward to seeing what the possibilities will be for WKBT 8.1. I'm on the back side of a hill, so it maybe just for my neighbors to pull in, but i'm kind of excited to see whether they are going to come in.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15807551#post15807551

...but this would slap them up alongside the head that there will be a switch to digital.
I'll also say what I've said before about the "what about the poor and elderly" excuse I have seen. I have more respect for both the poor and elderly to believe they are all stupid and unaware of the switch or to believe they are unable or unwilling to ask for help. There is no reason to be unaware of the switch, but there should also be no reason why those who needed help could not have received it from many, many sources including very local sources.
... Yeah, it's always the case that the almost constant notifications about something like this get tuned out by a certain number of people. There will still be some (more than any of us really can believe) that will turn on there TV on or about Tuesday and wonder what the hell is going on. Remarkable! I've got relations that are 20 something...don't watch the news, read a paper etc that have no idea WTH its all about.

I do know some people for whom the cost of a simple box is the last of there concerns...those that truly do need the $40 cards that have not applied; But short of handing out the cards / coordinated with other social service offices I think it's going to be up to them asking for help and getting out coupons to those that remain (along with help from those of us that have a strong handle on what's happening and what's needed).

Charter, which is controlled by Microsoft Corp. co-founder Paul Allen, said it has reached an agreement in principle with holders of $8 billion in debt who will give up repayment of their debt. In return, they will receive common shares, or warrants for rights to get common shares, that translate to nearly owning the entire company after bankruptcy.
Allen will remain as an investor and retain the largest voting interest. While his 51 percent stake in the company will be wiped out, along with those of other shareholders as the stock is canceled, Allen was given voting control by debt holders. Allen also holds some debt, which will be converted, and preferred stock.

In a prearranged bankruptcy, a company enters into reorganization with a plan to emerge that has the approval of major stakeholders... Well, it sounds like they have new life....except for Paul Allen retaining major voting shares. The debt owners must have been shined on by the whole Microsoft connection (as if Microsoft got where it was b/c it had the best products - was adaptive - or was a well run company LOL). They are have the biggest productivity stifler in the world; and they chose to reaffirm his "leadership" voting rights after such a dismal display of failures. Get ready for things to get worse as they scramble to gut the company...Read: Service going to suffer even more.

Trevord

02-15-09, 08:12 PM

This is another article that contains information about the Wausau/Rhinelander market switch to digital that came out today. Lots of information.

http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2009902150496

DustoMan

02-16-09, 12:49 PM

“poses a significant risk of substantial public harm.”

I really really hate that quote from the FCC. We are talking about television here... They make is sound like it's the end of the world.

gjvrieze

02-16-09, 01:41 PM

WEAU went off the air at 12:34PM!!!

willscary

02-16-09, 01:49 PM

I can't wait to get home from work!

Bill

tsheley

02-16-09, 02:30 PM

btb79

02-16-09, 02:38 PM

I have a question about WEAU. I was able to get their UHF Digital Signal with an indoor antenna in Holmen, WI with about a 66 - 68 signal strength. Will I have any trouble with the VHF signal? I am using a Terk HDTVA UHF/VHF antenna. I am at work now and can't test it until later.

Where in Holmen are you? I am just north of Sand Lake Elementry and have never been able to get WEAU with my Zenith Silver Sensor. Is your Terk in your attic?

From what I've read I don't think you should have any trouble with the VHF signal. I am hoping I might get lucky and be able to get it.

tsheley

02-16-09, 02:40 PM

I live in Remington Hills. I am in a split level home and my antenna is on my banister in the living room upstairs. There is one sweet spot in the whole house where I can get WKBT, WLAX, WXOW, and WEAU.

gjvrieze

02-16-09, 02:44 PM

Can anyone confirm that WEAU-DT-13 is online?

mattdp

02-16-09, 02:58 PM

As of ~1:55PM, I'm getting a signal in the "bad" zone. Something exists on ch. 13. If I get time later, I'll re-orient the antenna to shoot right at WEAU. At 85 miles, a suspected bad matching transformer an an aim at 350 (rather than 60 for WEAU) I was getting a bad. fuzzy color picture around lunch.

elocs

02-16-09, 06:31 PM

I live on the northside of La Crosse and I get the digital channel 13 at exactly the same strength I did before (about 94 on my VOOM receiver) using my Channel Master 4220 antenna just for this one station (this antenna picks up channel 8 now at a strength of 99 so it will be interesting what it is tomorrow).

tsheley

02-16-09, 06:34 PM

I was able to pick WEAU up also with the same strength as before.

gjvrieze

02-16-09, 06:38 PM

My results are disappointing as of this moment, will see what I can do when I get home though...

willscary

02-16-09, 06:39 PM

Believe it or not...NOTHING! NADA! Zilch!

Of course, there is weather coming in, so who knows. I will try again later.

Bill

gjvrieze

02-16-09, 06:41 PM

Believe it or not...NOTHING! NADA! Zilch!

Of course, there is weather coming in, so who knows. I will try again later.

Bill

Not to be a mean jerk, but it is a little reassuring that your results are about like mine, that means my install is working as well as yours... I think WEAU-TV looked the worst today that I had monitored...

elocs

02-16-09, 06:47 PM

Just to ask because I do not know, why do people who live in Rochester which has its own NBC station want to receive WEAU so badly? Is there something it offers that your own NBC station does not? My only choice for NBC is either Rochester or Eau Claire, so I just picked the one I could receive the best, or at all in digital.

gjvrieze

02-16-09, 06:49 PM

elocs

02-16-09, 06:52 PM

KTTC has tons of issues on the digital, smearing and "firework" like dots dancing on screen... Plus NO HD on Jeopardy!!!

Well, guess I know now. For me WEAU was just easier. I'm lucky I am on the northside of La Crosse because many to the south cannot easily get it if at all.

mattdp

02-16-09, 06:58 PM

gjvrieze is right. KTTC uses encoders from 2000. They suck. I only have analog SD sets in my house and the encoding artifacts are clearly visible on both. That's how bad it is.

There's also "because we can" factor, but I won't get into that...

LakeFlambeau

02-16-09, 07:13 PM

I live very high in SW Rochester and have a 50 foot tower that I have
been using for years to get WI stations. I have gotten Eau Claire for
years on the VHF side and for the last couple of years using the
UHF 39, with getting a lock 98% of the time for a watchable
signal. I am getting an extremely poor broken up signal
on a Channel Master convertor box. 0 to 40% and jumping all over the
place. I also had a Samsung HDTV hooked up and always had a lockable
signal. I can not even get that one to find the signal to add it to
the scan. Tried a complete rescan and still no luck.
I have removed the high quality splitter that I was using, and ran the
signal to each TV and still getting the poor results. Played
with my rotor and tweaked it and still getting poor results.
Very disappointing so far. I called WEAU to confirm they are at
full power. The one person who supposedly knew technical
things, said they are at full power. Anybody else in the Rochester
getting these poor results???? I hope WKBT which is has great strength
on Channel 41 does not die on Channel 8 tommorow.

I like to receive WEAU because I was born and raised in the area and have a cabin up there so I like to watch the news to keep up on the area. Watch Rochester news half time/ EC half time.

willscary

02-16-09, 07:14 PM

Just for the record, I don't live in Rochester. I live 35 miles west of Green Bay. With my Funke PSP.1922 pointed right at Eau Claire and my 91XG pointed at 331 degrees, I have been able to get the Green Bay and Wausau markets completely in digital, plus WEAU analog and WKBT channel 8 out of LaCrosse in analog.

I had fully expected that because I received WEAU analog PERFECTLY until it went low power a few weeks ago, I would easily get it digitally also. Unfortunately...not yet!

Bill

willscary

02-16-09, 07:20 PM

That is NOT good news Lake Flambeau! I was hoping they were having signal problems.

WEAU was broadcasting their pre-transition digital on channel 39 and WKBT was broadcasting their pre-transition digital on channel 41. I could never receive these digital signals because there are a pair of Green Bay stations broadcasting on the same channels. Then, about 6 weeks ago, a fire at an electrical transformer cut power to all of the Green Bay digital signals for about 4 hours. I received BOTH WEAU AND WKBT in digital with no problems! I was sure that once they went to VHF-hi I would do even better. This has not been the case this evening!

Bill

mattdp

02-16-09, 07:25 PM

With a Wade UV-936SR 15ft AGL and a Winegard AP-8780 AGL pointed 340-350 (WEAU is 60), I was getting a fuzzy color picture at lunch time (ok, considering I the wrong direction, low power and suspected bad matching tansformer or something). I have a LOS about five miles out from 90 all the way up to about 30 (see: http://picasaweb.google.com/radioguy/AntennaInstallScreenshots#5303526819093377154)

I'll have to check it again, but my Zenith DTT-901 and manual tuning, I'm getting signal solidly in the "bad" zone).

Update: Here's what I'm getting:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_UjAQ7VoDpSE/SZrg6qPlKwI/AAAAAAAAAR0/ZspMb-ldGZE/s1024/IMG_8122.JPGhttp://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/_bvEARe6bq1Bf9YT86LG2A?feat=directlink

sammy4041

02-16-09, 07:29 PM

Ok, I live smack dab in the middle of Eau Claire, when WEAU was broadcasting UHF, I recieved the signal fine. Now today, I went and bought a nice Yagi VHF antenna. I have placed in my attic facing south waiting to see the WKTB results I will get. ( I was abe to get WKTB UHF also). I hooked it all up and I am getting about 98 percent, but with many audio and video dropouts. I have the UHF now at the north side of the Attic for WEUX and PBS, and the VHF on the south hooked into a channelmaster UF converter. That then goes to a booster and down to my TV.

I know this systems sounds half AS**$#*#ED, can someone tell me what I could do better.

willscary

02-16-09, 09:43 PM

At 7PM, I was able to get channel data for WEAU. By 8:30, I was getting a broken signal on the Vizio, but my older and smaller Samsung, which usually does NOT pick up channels as well as the Vizio, was picking up a solid signal with dropouts every few minutes.

PLEASE tell me that it takes time to burn in the new system!

Bill

mattdp

02-16-09, 10:29 PM

Why don't you give em' a call and ask what's up. There number is listed on this page: http://www.weau.com/home/headlines/39638937.html

willscary

02-16-09, 10:37 PM

I have been emailing back and forth for a few hours. They asked if I had a VHF antenna. Then they asked if I had aimed it correctly.

Bill

mattdp

02-16-09, 10:45 PM

I wish they would just tell us directly whether or not the station is having issues.

If this is VHF-Hi DTV, then I'm dreading tomorrow.

willscary

02-16-09, 11:27 PM

Now they tell me that either my antenna is misaimed or that I need to get rid of the CM 7777 preamp. I'm 112 miles away and I have been getting a perfect analog signal. Also, I am aimed over 60 degrees off from Wausau sations and have been getting them. Finally, I am receiving channel 11 out of the back of the antenna.

Sometimes I wonder if those engineers know anything other than the electronics boxes they work with.

Bill

willscary

02-16-09, 11:29 PM

By the way, I just watched about 25 minutes with no problems and a good signal. Then, suddenly, the signal fluctuated up and down, then disappeared. Weather perhaps at this distance? Interference from another channel 13 somewhere?

Bill

sregener

02-17-09, 05:17 AM

PLEASE tell me that it takes time to burn in the new system!

Many stations slowly increase power and monitor various components to make sure nothing is malfunctioning. A malfunction at full power is often catastrophic - severe loss of equipment. I wouldn't sweat WEAU-DT until they give the "all clear".

grgeiger

02-17-09, 05:26 AM

You people make me Jealous!!! My coax cable fell off my antenna. I think the wind blew the screws loose. The coax cable fell off and is dangling on the tower. I'll have to wait for the ice and snow to melt off my roof and tower to get back up there to fix it.

I live 60 miles north of Wausau near Rhinelander. I am receiving a beautiful picture on the new Digital Channel 7 on a wire dangling in the air.

Before I needed to point the hi gain antenna at Wausau from a 40 foot tower and on a good day I would get a signal strength of about 25%.

Hopefully 9 will come in as good as 7.. :)
.

willscary

02-17-09, 06:39 AM

Yup, channel 7 is lit up this morning! I aalways got a good digital signal from them and I know that digital is all or nothing, but the new VHF digital signal, although it reads the same on the signal meter, looks better somehow.

I don't know, but it looks crisper and better color. Perhaps new equipment?

Bill

Trevord

02-17-09, 08:49 AM

Finally I get a digital channel from NBC. W27AU looks great in High Definition. I was watching Conan O' Brien last night in HD and it was amazing. WFXS will be in digital tonight and then I will have all my locals in digital :)

LakeFlambeau

02-17-09, 09:05 AM

Many stations slowly increase power and monitor various components to make sure nothing is malfunctioning. A malfunction at full power is often catastrophic - severe loss of equipment. I wouldn't sweat WEAU-DT until they give the "all clear".

I hope it gets better also. Last night, I checked around 2 am and I was
getting a 20 to 40 percent signal with some dropouts. Somewhat watchable.
This morning, no signal at all.
Are they really powering up "New Equipement?" Are they just
using the old trasmitter with a digital signal on it? I have to admit,
I do not know how this part works.

Any idea on how we find out about the "all clear?" Qucik phone call yesterday to someone not very knowledgeable at WEAU said they were at full power.

willscary

02-17-09, 09:21 AM

WEAU was dark at my house this morning also. Last night they oscillated up and down with their signal. No wind here, so no antenna movement. I was getting a signal of 80-85 when the signal was good, then it started jumping around and it was gone. I know about atmospheric propogation, but this was really not expected.

I am bummed about WEAU.

Bill

Trip in VA

02-17-09, 09:52 AM

lovebohn

02-17-09, 10:58 AM

I had better luck last night and this morning with WEAU to. This is with my antenna pointed at 8 degrees to pick up the Wausau stations. In the past i need to turn to about 320 degrees in the evening to get a steady 50% signal on a good day. I might have to move the antenna from the garage attic to the roof.

If anyone needs a CM telescoping mast let me know I have the 1640 one.

willscary

02-17-09, 11:14 AM

lovebohn

02-17-09, 11:18 AM

Good to know, does antennaweb.org have the location updated yet? Just check, both analog and digital has it listed as 290 degrees.

Dave

Tobias Ziegler

02-17-09, 11:22 AM

You people make me Jealous!!! My coax cable fell off my antenna. I think the wind blew the screws loose. The coax cable fell off and is dangling on the tower. I'll have to wait for the ice and snow to melt off my roof and tower to get back up there to fix it.

I live 60 miles north of Wausau near Rhinelander. I am receiving a beautiful picture on the new Digital Channel 7 on a wire dangling in the air.

It works that well? Where can I go to buy a wire dangling in the air?

doughboy1013

02-17-09, 11:23 AM

Is NBC mapped to 27-1 or 12-1?

- Trip

As of last night W27AU was mapped with the HD main on 27-1, with a SD duplicate on 27-2. They did a flash cut to the same frequency as the old station. Haven't tried to receive WJFW out of Rhinelander though, but that would be mapped on 12-1.

gjvrieze

02-17-09, 11:29 AM

It works that well? Where can I go to buy a wire dangling in the air?

You ought to see KIMT-TV-3 in Adams, MN, it is SOOOO strong, it leaks into good coax able with a decent picture, when you screen the cable on, if the ground touches the coax ground, it gets an almost perfect channel 3 in analog!

lovebohn

02-17-09, 11:47 AM

Lovebohn,

I am fairly sure that the digital signal you received when WEAU was broadcasting on channel 39 is in a different location than the signal they are broadcasting now on channel 13. This may account for not having to rotate as much.

Bill

Bill,
Not the best quote, but it looks like they are using the same tower for the new digital 13 signal

http://www.weau.com/weauhdtv/headlines/18811399.html

gjvrieze

02-17-09, 11:57 AM

Bill,
Not the best quote, but it looks like they are using the same tower for the new digital 13 signal

http://www.weau.com/weauhdtv/headlines/18811399.html

Yes, the 13 antenna is top mounted the tower (the "old" 13 analog antenna) and the 39 antenna is on the side of the tower and I would expect it to be sold to another station, when they can get a crew up there to take it down. It is VERY tall tower, 2000ft!

I think why you might find different aims for 13, via 39 digital, is that the waves travel much differently going from UHF to VHF... Even different UHFs off the same tower, often vary at sites without LOS to the tower...

willscary

02-17-09, 01:19 PM

WAOW switched. Looks good here in Hatley.

Bill

lovebohn

02-17-09, 01:25 PM

Any news with FOX 55/31 yet?

Trevord

02-17-09, 01:39 PM

Nothing with WFXS yet. The website said sometime this evening.

gjvrieze

02-17-09, 02:02 PM

WKBT-DT-8 is online, looking decent at my house in Rochester:)

Trevord

02-17-09, 02:46 PM

WFXS is off the air right now. Hopefully the digital signal is on soon.

LakeFlambeau

02-17-09, 02:55 PM

Many stations slowly increase power and monitor various components to make sure nothing is malfunctioning. A malfunction at full power is often catastrophic - severe loss of equipment. I wouldn't sweat WEAU-DT until they give the "all clear".

WKBT-DT-8 is online, looking decent at my house in Rochester:)

So at least one VHF HI station works....
WEAU still not there?

I have to try once I get home again tonight.....

gjvrieze

02-17-09, 02:58 PM

So at least one VHF HI station works....
WEAU still not there?

I have to try once I get home again tonight.....

I am getting some breakups, but I am at work, so I do not have access to the rotator for the Funke antenna that I have aimed for WKBT to try an adjustment.... (and it has only been online an hour, I will give them the benefit of the doubt until later)

sammy4041

02-17-09, 03:44 PM

grgeiger

02-17-09, 03:53 PM

My Cable company switched over to digital this morning.. Everything looks good except there is a strange greenish looking snow on WFXS. Maybe they have WFXS set up so when Fox signs on in Digital I'll have it. If that is the case.. I'll let everyone know in this forum the second I see something. (if I am around).

on all of my receivers I'll have to keep pressing scan every five minutes. Maybe its better if I just keep an eye on the cable feed.

Any news with FOX 55/31 yet?

mattdp

02-17-09, 04:12 PM

sammy... you might want to give the new stations a few days, WEAU at least seems to be working the power up slowly or something. Don't know about WKBT thought (seemed stable a moment ago.

jimboeau

02-17-09, 05:34 PM

Well folks, I am going to calmly unhook my antenna and be satisfied with the crappy analog local stations that dishnetwork provideds or maybe call directv. I have waited and this is what I waited for.

Pre Trans.

WKTB 75-80 percent
WEAU 80-90 no dropouts
PBS Menom 70-80 Ok most of the time
WQOW 95-100 fine
WEUX 70-80 ok most of the time

Post Trans.

WKTB Nothing
WEAU 80-90 Numerous dropouts
PBS Same
WQOW Same
WEUX Same

Since WKTB is where I watch 90 percent of my programming I dont see any point in messing around with this anymore. Apparently Eau Claire is not a big enought city to have your major networks in digital.

This is what I get from having an attic setup, but it worked before so that is my justification for being a little upset. And yes I scanned channels and bought a VHF.

I even put the temporarliy put the antenna outside and same results

I am signing off, screw this. :mad:

I have been fighting this for the last 2 years only to go backwards.

Hey Sammy,

I have a UHF antenna on the roof in Eau Claire. It is the CM4228. I'm still getting both WKBT and WEAU. WEAU is the same signal strength but WKBT is down to about 68 signal but no break-ups. I already have a channel 8 cut VHF antenna ready to go up when it gets a little nicer out. Also have a small channel 13 VHF antenna that's going up as well. Then i plan on swinging the big UHF 4228 over towards the W NW to get the other UHF channels at max signal.

The key is to have the antenna outside which will eliminate the multipath that is most likely causing your problems on 13. Channel 8 will certainly need to be outside as well. It would have been nice for both 13 and 8 to stay on UHF but I can't blame them for wanting to cut their electric bill big time by moving to VHF. Hope things work out for you.

elocs

02-17-09, 06:30 PM

I live on the northside of La Crosse and I am having a problem with WKBT. I did a rescan this afternoon on my VOOM receiver and on the converter box that I use for an old tv in the bedroom. Using my VOOM receiver I have 2 antennas: 1 for WKBT, WXOW, WLAX, and WHLA (a Square Shooter pointed toward the NW) and they all came in well. The other antenna I use just to get Eau Claire and it comes in at a 93 on the VOOM receiver. Tonight, WKBT will not come in at all using the Square Shooter and that has never happened before. It does, however, come in on the Channel Master that I use for Eau Claire. The trouble is that I only send the signal from the Square Shooter to the bedroom and to my computer monitor, willing to do without WEAU since that signal would not split without losing it altogether. So WEAU was the only station I had to do without at those 2 spots and now I cannot get either it or WKBT and I could get WKBT this afternoon.

What might be up with this?

jimboeau

02-17-09, 07:07 PM

elocs

02-17-09, 07:12 PM

The square shooter is NOT a good VHf antenna. It's OK for uhf but not much better than putting a pair of rabbit ears on your roof for vHF. You may have to get a VHF antenna for the vHf stations.

Well, the question would be why did the Square Shooter pull in channel 8 at a strength of 97 on my Voom when I did a rescan after they shut off the analog. Granted, the signal was 99 on the Channel Master, but 97 is a damn good signal. This is simply more annoying that anything else when everything was working perfectly before.

Innova

02-17-09, 07:13 PM

I just rescanned my channels. I live in Mosinee (between Wausau and Stevens Point). My antenna is currently pointed NE (towards Wittenburg where the WFXS tower is).

I am currently picking up these channels:
WSAW-DT
WAOW-DT
WEAU-DT
WHRM-DT
WHRM-Analog
W27AU-DT

No WFXS or WFXS-DT at this time.

itsamilky

02-17-09, 07:29 PM

I have Directv with the setup of Am-21 ota tuner with the HR21 receiver. I know locals are included with them anyway, but it is nice to have OTA once in a while. Yesterday after WEAU in Eau Claire switched, I couldn't get them anymore. I LIVE RIGHT IN TOWN. Today, after the rest switched, I can still get theirs. I'm aware the AM-21 doesn't have a rescan function, but is set up by zipcode. Directv says the problem lies with WEAU. Weau says its Directv's problem. And even without rescanning I get the others, just not 13 and the 24/7 weather from 13. What am I missing?

LakeFlambeau

02-17-09, 07:46 PM

So at least one VHF HI station works....
WEAU still not there?

I have to try once I get home again tonight.....

Well I went through a bunch of rescans and antenna alignments and my results on the Wisconsin stations are the same as before the switch,
EXCEPT WEAU still is barely receivable, not watchable on my Channel
Master convertor and still can not be found on my Samsung HDTV.
Really frustrating because it was fine with the DTV Channel 39 signal.
Sent email to WEAU requesting a email of the main engineer and
no response yet. Sounds like other people are receiving all around,
but maybe they are really keeping power lower than in the past.
25, 19, 8 and 31 are great. 25 8 and 31 work when pointed at
Eau Claire.

Anybody confirm anything with WEAU engineering about power?
My guess that this is it. They would want the full power when people
are hitting the rescan buttons so they can be found.

willscary

02-17-09, 08:18 PM

I can not get WEAU either, and its analog signal was perfect at full power and watchable at 1/4 power.

On another note, earlier I posted that perhaps WEAU had their old UHF digital signal on a different tower. The reason I thought that this might be the case is that during my emails back and forth last night with WEAU, they suggested that perhaps my antenna was not aimed towards Nielsville, where there tower apparently is located. Then they suggested that perhaps I was using a UHF antenna to get their digital signal on channel 39, and that I needed to use a VHF antenna. (the respondent had no idea what a Funke PSP.1922 was).

The response about my antenna not being aimed correctly made me think that perhaps the old channel 39 antenna was on a different tower. After re-reading the email, I think that WEAU was telling me that perhaps my UHF antenna was pointed at their tower and I was either not using a VHF antenna or was using one pointed in a different direction.

My bad.

Bill

elocs

02-17-09, 08:29 PM

I am using a Channel Master 4220 which is rated up to 20 miles for channels 7-13 with an inline amp to get WEAU which is 60 miles from me. My VOOM receiver shows its signal at a solid 93. The same antenna is pulling in WKBT at a 98-99, but I can no longer get it all on my Square Shooter although it did come in on it when I first rescanned this afternoon.

N9IWP

02-17-09, 09:32 PM

No luck getting WEAU here in La Crescent. Channel 8 is ~80 (SNR ~25 dB) while channel 13 is ~30 (SNR ~17 dB). (UHF stations are rock solid, but they are all much closer)

I do have a rooftop VHF antenna pointed at least roughly the right direction.
Analog channel 13 was a bit weak but watchable (even after power reduction)

Brian

willscary

02-17-09, 09:57 PM

Last night by this time WEAU was OK. Tonight nothing at all. I am sure the weather plays a part in this, but really...WEAU is not putting out nearly the digital signal that it had been when on UHF, and worse yet, it is nowheres near the range that the analog signal had.

Bill

elocs

02-17-09, 10:18 PM

What do we tell to all of those people who previously complained how they couldn't get a good digital signal and we reassured them of how it would be so much better after the switch?

Trevord

02-17-09, 10:19 PM

Looks like WFXS is coming in digital at 11:59 tonight

lovebohn

02-17-09, 10:52 PM

I'm using a CM4228 with a 7777 preamp and get all of the Wausau stations at almost 100% now. Channel 7 went from average at best to 100% with the antenna pointed at just about any direction. The odd thing is with WE AU. I went to my normal setting and was not getting a good signal 30% with to much breakups. I messed around with doing due east towards green bay and locked in WEAU at 95%. I moved it a little more north and now have 7 at 100%, 9 at 73%, 20 at 92% and 13 at 75%. I hope WFXS comes in good to. I think this goes to show how moving the channels back in the UHF range makes a difference in signal strength, but why better reception with my antenna pointed in the wrong direction and using the wrong type of antenna. Lets see what happens when storm has passed tonight.

willscary

02-17-09, 10:57 PM

grgeiger

02-17-09, 11:46 PM

Does that mean they will flash cut? Or are both analog and digital signals going to be on for a very short period of time?

Looks like WFXS is coming in digital at 11:59 tonight

Trevord

02-18-09, 12:17 AM

They will flash cut.

willscary

02-18-09, 06:14 AM

I awoke this morning to NO WFXS!

Are they having problems? My antenna is pointed directly at them and they have always been very strong where I live.

Bill

N9IWP

02-18-09, 07:29 AM

I recieved WEAU earlier this morning (i don't rememeber the signal strength) but not right now.

Brian

Innova

02-18-09, 08:24 AM

No WFXS-DT here either. Has anyone picked them up today?

Trevord

02-18-09, 08:42 AM

Trevord

02-18-09, 09:15 AM

This is the reply I got from WFXS after emailing them this morning.

WFXS is not yet broadcasting in digital. Our digital conversion was slowed and halted last night by the snow.. The ice conditions made working 1000' up on the tower too dangerous.. We hope to have the digital signal operating early today, weather permitting..

You will need to rescan your digital converters of digital TVs.. I suggest you do that several times over the next few days to make sure you don't miss any channels..

We are very sorry about the timing of this transition (American Idol Night). It was picked by Congress without any thought about what programming would be on. We started the actual conversion over a week ago and it just worked out that the snow storm came a day to soon. We hope to have it completed tomorrow.

grgeiger

02-18-09, 09:33 AM

Is WFXS analog and digital both off?
WFXS always had nothing but bad luck for the last 5 years. They must be cursed.

lovebohn

02-18-09, 09:35 AM

No WFXS isn't brodacsting in digital yet. They were supposed to last night. I am emailing them now. The website says it will be a full power digital channel today on February 18 so it better be in digital by tonight.

I hope that is going to be true. The last talks i had with the GM at Fox was if they did not have a digital signal running by midnight on 2/17 the FCC was going to make them wait until April to broadcast. I'm sure a lot has changed since we last talked, lets hope for a signal later this morning.

lovebohn

02-18-09, 10:01 AM

Is WFXS analog and digital both off?
WFXS always had nothing but bad luck for the last 5 years. They must be cursed.

Yes, both digital and analog. If you cable company was just pulling the OTA signal your SOL until they have it up and running.

LakeFlambeau

02-18-09, 12:03 PM

"What do we tell to all of those people who previously complained how they couldn't get a good digital signal and we reassured them of how it would be so much better after the switch?"

I don't know. I really thought that fewer analog signals would mean less interference. Plus, I had two channels that were interfering with local channels that wer moving to VHF where there would be no problems. Neither of these happened.

Dang, lets hope that VHF channels are given the OK to double or triple their signal. It will take at least 3 or 4 db on the VHF-hi stations to receive them as well as I did before. Right now I can not receive them at all.

Bill

I sent a email off to Ron Wiedemeier at WEAU who I was told
is the Chief Engineer.

I told him about the problems I am having that I could
receive and now can not receive their signal.
I mentioned others on the outer edges of their range
who are having similar problems.

I also asked about what I have seen out at the following FCC
site. Power they are at, proposed higher power that may have
had the application rescinded.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state=WI&call=&arn=&city=&chan=0.0&chan2=69&facid=&list=2&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=

WEAU

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=7893

WEAU applications
Concern on the Rescinded on 1/30/2009 for power boost
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_list.pl?Facility_id=7893

Hit on Get data

I will post if I hear or receive anything back.

grgeiger

02-18-09, 03:36 PM

February 18th, 2009 8:30am..
Like all great plans, the Wisconsin weather has taken charge. The installation of our new digital antenna could not proceed last night as planned, but crews are hopeful they can get it up today. Ice and snow hampered installation efforts on our 1000 foot tower and work had to be stopped around 6pm for safety reasons.
Viewers should be patient and just remember to rescan digital converters and TVs often over the next few days. We understand this transition is not as smooth as one would hope but in reality February in Wisconsin is always unpredictable.
WFXS will hopefully be operating at full digital power sometime later today and all viewers should need to do is rescan.
Please check back here for updates before calling the station or the DTV helplines. You should not try to adjust antennas or anything on your system until you know all stations are up at final power levels.
Thank you for your patience.

willscary

02-18-09, 06:23 PM

I called WFXS from work during lunch. The lady who answered seemed a bit annoyed by the call. It sounds like they have been fielding this same question all day.

Bill

willscary

02-18-09, 06:31 PM

I think that WEAU would need to go to at least 75kW ERP to get a solid signal.

I wonder if the FCC is allowing too little power for the VHF-hi stations.

Bill

willscary

02-18-09, 07:42 PM

WFXS 6:30 PM update:

http://www.myfoxwausau.com/myfox/pages/InsideFox/Detail?contentId=8352282&version=8&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=5.1.1

Trevord

02-18-09, 08:43 PM

Ugh! We have to wait another day for FOX. I was looking to watching American Idol in HD tonight. They shouldve kept the analog signal on until the digital signal was up. Hopefully the weather will be good tomorrow so WFXS can finally broadcast digitally.

mattdp

02-18-09, 08:54 PM

Well... we know that the crew has been working up on the tower. In order for them to do this, they need to shut off the transmitters on the tower, so they couldn't have have kept the analog on.

DA1745

02-18-09, 09:58 PM

What do we tell to all of those people who previously complained how they couldn't get a good digital signal and we reassured them of how it would be so much better after the switch? Totally? I once again learn not to promise things that I cannot control.
Last night by this time WEAU was OK. Tonight nothing at all. I am sure the weather plays a part in this, but really...WEAU is not putting out nearly the digital signal that it had been when on UHF, and worse yet, it is nowheres near the range that the analog signal had.
Bill Well, i would be a lot more frustrated if i had NOT found this thread a few months back. I'm having problems with several TV's in the neighborhood. I thought the problems were simply going to be a rescan and things would be the same as before the transition...but alas that is not the case.

For example in one house I was able to get the upstairs old crappy TV working again with the Dish DTV Pal Converter that was set up and working prior to a few days ago. (Receiving 13.1, 13.2, 18.1, 18.2, 28.1, 28.2, 28.3, 48.1). It's now more difficult to pull in CHs 13 (using the same rabbit dual UHF/VHF antenna), and they are coming in on CH 70.1 & 70.2. Which is odd since the tuner won't let me go above ch 69 but when i punch in 13.1 / 13.2 is redirects or maps to that station. (it never did this before). So everything is Working but I don't understand the Ch 70.1 thing????

Downstairs (only a partially below ground basement) they have a new Sony TV, and prior to the transition (a few months back until rather recently) the picture was exceptional on the following channels: 13.1 & .2,18.1 & .2, 28.1 & .2 & .3, 48.1 until I posted a few days back in this thead asking about the problems with WEAU-TV.
Down there today there's NO TV 13.1 or 13.2 (but I can get it on the DTV converter upstairs and again prior to the change over and issues of the last few days or so it's been perfect. But Also I can't get Ch. 48.1 down there. I've rescanned i've tried to manually add the channels.
It's also using a small rabbit ears UHF/VHF type (same as it's been using the whole time). I get Zero signal bars when I manually type in 13.1,13.2 or 48.1
So it's not like its getting a parital signal it's getting nothing at all. I guess i could understand if it was ONLY TV 13.1 since that's the only VHF signal but why no 48.1? The antenna is facing the direction of 18, 28, & 48 and 18.1 & 2 and 28.1, 2, & 3 are CRYSTAL Clear (no dropping at all no pixelation etc.). 48.1 is only 15 miles away according to antennaweb.org while Chs.28 are 25 miles away so it's not a distance thing (especially since I can pull it in ok with the DTV Pal. Any ideas or thoughts?

We could go out & get a new rabbit ears or an amplified version. But I just can't wrap my head around why it would be able to pull in 18's & 28's so well and not 48.1 now. The neighbor said CH 48.1 just went down yesterday on that TV. He called and was told by someone at Ch 48 that they lost power yesterday but to re-scan today & all should be fine. ?? (It's not)... I'd have thought it was off the air if I wasn't getting it with the converter upstairs.
It's extra frustrating b/c the basic converter box can pull all the channels including 13s and 48 in (but just not with the same quality of the Sony TV in Tuning Lock and of course picture quality.

gjvrieze

02-18-09, 10:30 PM

I think that WEAU would need to go to at least 75kW ERP to get a solid signal.

I wonder if the FCC is allowing too little power for the VHF-hi stations.

Bill

Yup, I think 50-75kW is going to be needed to fill in the former analog coverage....

N9IWP

02-19-09, 09:19 AM

I seem to be getting WEAU now (60 or so on the signal meter)
(I'm in La Crescent)

Brian

lovebohn

02-19-09, 09:57 AM

no snow today, but cold and windy. We might be in the same boat again. Hey if we have it for 24 on Monday I will be happy.

grgeiger

02-19-09, 10:00 AM

The WFXS curse continues..

February 19th 8:00am
The winds were too severe yesterday and last night to get the Digital antenna installed. The antenna sustained some damage during the attempt and we are evaluating what to do next and we are monitoring the weather closely.. We are working very hard to get this situation resolved and finish the digital transition..
We'll update this as we know more..

elocs

02-19-09, 10:25 AM

I seem to be getting WEAU now (60 or so on the signal meter)
(I'm in La Crescent)

Brian

I cannot be too many miles from you. I'm on the northside of La Crosse by the Black River and I get WEAU locked in at a solid 93 or 94 on my old VOOM receiver (exactly the same as before) with a Channel Master 4220 that is probably only 18 feet off the ground. Otherwise you must have something obstructing your signal.

Joewee

02-19-09, 11:21 AM

Well folks, I am going to calmly unhook my antenna and be satisfied with the crappy analog local stations that dishnetwork provideds or maybe call directv. I have waited and this is what I waited for.

Pre Trans.

WKTB 75-80 percent
WEAU 80-90 no dropouts
PBS Menom 70-80 Ok most of the time
WQOW 95-100 fine
WEUX 70-80 ok most of the time

Post Trans.

WKTB Nothing
WEAU 80-90 Numerous dropouts
PBS Same
WQOW Same
WEUX Same

Since WKTB is where I watch 90 percent of my programming I dont see any point in messing around with this anymore. Apparently Eau Claire is not a big enought city to have your major networks in digital.

This is what I get from having an attic setup, but it worked before so that is my justification for being a little upset. And yes I scanned channels and bought a VHF.

I even put the temporarliy put the antenna outside and same results

I am signing off, screw this. :mad:

I have been fighting this for the last 2 years only to go backwards.

I also cannot get Channel 8 out of Wausau anymore. I used
to get it in the Mid 80's, now I don't even have a signal.
I don't buy that Eau Claire is not a big enough city. Here
were the 2007 census figures Eau Claire compared to
La Crosse and Wausau:

Eau Claire 64,980

La Crosse 50,719

Wausau 38,054

I can't understand why the Market is Lacrosse - Eau Claire,
and Eau Claire only has 1 station on Directv and Dish Network
while the rest are La Crosse.

Innova

02-19-09, 11:46 AM

no snow today, but cold and windy. We might be in the same boat again. Hey if we have it for 24 on Monday I will be happy.

Nope. We need it by Sunday afternoon for the race.

grgeiger

02-19-09, 11:48 AM

Trip in VA

02-19-09, 12:49 PM

Eau Claire-La Crosse Market = 215,610 Households
Wausau-Rhinelander Market = 184,220 Households

As far as I know there is no Channel 8 in Wausau.. I think the CW might get remapped to 8 even though it is on 9.2. (if it isn't already)

Split mapping (mapping one sub to 9-1 and another to 8-1, for example) often wreaks havoc on certain devices and is not recommended.

Plus, if they don't have any claim to that channel OTA, they could find themselves getting smacked by the FCC for doing that.

- Trip

jimboeau

02-19-09, 01:21 PM

Split mapping (mapping one sub to 9-1 and another to 8-1, for example) often wreaks havoc on certain devices and is not recommended.

Plus, if they don't have any claim to that channel OTA, they could find themselves getting smacked by the FCC for doing that.

- Trip

Joewee was talking about channel 8 WKBT out of La Crosse. I think he accidentally wrote Wausau.

adler187

02-19-09, 01:30 PM

It's now more difficult to pull in CHs 13 (using the same rabbit dual UHF/VHF antenna), and they are coming in on CH 70.1 & 70.2. Which is odd since the tuner won't let me go above ch 69 but when i punch in 13.1 / 13.2 is redirects or maps to that station. (it never did this before). So everything is Working but I don't understand the Ch 70.1 thing????

I was using a DTVPal for testing yesterday that had WKBT channel 41 as 8.1 and KTTC channel 36 as 10.1. After a rescan to find their "new" VHF frequencies, the box removed 8.1 and 10.1 and replaced them with 71.1 and 70.1, respectively. I couldn't figure it out. I believe it must not like when it finds another channel on the same virtual channel so remaps it to a channel no one would be using because it is out of band (above ch. 69).

I tried deleting 70 and 71 and rescanning and they came up that way again. I deleted all the channels and rescanned and that seemed to do the trick.

Trip in VA

02-19-09, 01:38 PM

Joewee was talking about channel 8 WKBT out of La Crosse. I think he accidentally wrote Wausau.

I know he was, but grgeiger suggested that WAOW-DT could split their mapping, so I was answering that.

- Trip

grgeiger

02-19-09, 01:53 PM

I was just wondering because when I watch CW on cable here the ID says "North Central Wisconsin CW channel 8 and Channel 14. Maybe it is a cable thing. My cable system moved them to Channel 8 a few days ago..

I know he was, but grgeiger suggested that WAOW-DT could split their mapping, so I was answering that.

- Trip

grgeiger

02-19-09, 01:53 PM

WFXS Update.. More bad luck!

February 19th 11:03am
The antenna sustained more damage than we thought and unfortunately has to be shipped back to the factory for repair. We're anticipating a 3 day turnaround. We continue to ask that you be patient during the very frustrating transition to digital television...please keep checking back for updates.

Trip in VA

02-19-09, 02:02 PM

CW: Yeah, more than one CW station brands by cable number. At home where I live, the CW station is on 21-2 and 27-2, but brands as "CW 5."

WFXS: Where's the analog antenna? I thought they had a backup analog antenna up that could do 198 kW; could they at least get some kind of signal (even if it's analog) back on the air?

- Trip

grgeiger

02-19-09, 02:09 PM

Not sure.. :(
Do you think WFXS may have had a deadline to shut of analog? If they didn't they would be forced to stay on in Analog until April? Maybe they already gave up the analog license? I would call there but I would guess the engineers have other things to worry about than take my phone calls. LOL

Trip in VA

02-19-09, 02:15 PM

I don't think that's true, but the lawyers might have advised them to just keep it off the air "just in case." Might be the best option they have, given the murkiness of the current FCC regulations.

- Trip

Joewee

02-19-09, 02:30 PM

Joewee was talking about channel 8 WKBT out of La Crosse. I think he accidentally wrote Wausau.

Yes, thanks Jim. My bad. It should be Channel 8 out of La Crosse.
Anyone else able to get it in Eau Claire now? I tried pointing both
the VHF and UHF parts of the antenna at it, rescanning each time
and still no luck.

Trevord

02-19-09, 02:43 PM

gjvrieze

02-19-09, 03:07 PM

WFXS: Where's the analog antenna? I thought they had a backup analog antenna up that could do 198 kW; could they at least get some kind of signal (even if it's analog) back on the air?

- Trip

I bet, that the gin pole is sitting in front of it, so that they cannot run 198kW up to it, with a big piece of "crane" in front it... Someone should drive by the tower and get us some pictures!
I am just glad no one got hurt, the fact that they damaged it, it must have been swinging around pretty badly to damage it enough to have to ship it back...

doughboy1013

02-19-09, 03:33 PM

I think WTPX Antigo is lying about being on the air. I have friends with a powerful outdoor antenna that live in Antigo and they cannot receive it. I don't know anyone who can receive it. I don't think anyone does receive it. Can anyone out there get this station? I think their website is BS'ing us about being on the air.

My friend stopped out by my grandparents' place just west of Edgar yesterday, after he was asked to help set up their converter box. He was claiming to get channel 46 out there. It seems odd, but they have no impediments to the east of their land (gotta love farmland). That's a good 25+ miles from the tower according to Wikipedia (just off the HWY 52/J intersection NE of Wausau).

So maybe it does exist. I cannot receive it here in Weston, but I do need a better antenna. 27-1 breaks up less than 5 miles away.

Sorry about WFXS though. That's just bad luck. The winds are finally dying down today naturally. It's been 10-20mph with 30+gusts the last few days. Of course, it's worse up high on the tower.

grgeiger

02-19-09, 03:39 PM

I have e-mailed Pax on several occasions the last several years. They insist the station is on the air.. On another occasion they told me the station is on the air at a very low power and broadcasting to a very limited area. But they wouldn't tell me where the limited area is.

I would think if the station is licensed to Antigo they would need to broadcast a city grade signal in Antigo. To serve the city of license.

I think the transmitter is suppose to be on 107.9's tower. If it is on the air and broadcasting something like 10 watts maybe the 10 people that live in the town of Hewitt can pick it up. I was going to drive out near the tower site just to see if I can pick something up near the tower..But never really had the chance to play around with it.. LOL

I think WTPX Antigo is lying about being on the air. I have friends with a powerful outdoor antenna that live in Antigo and they cannot receive it. I don't know anyone who can receive it. I don't think anyone does receive it. Can anyone out there get this station? I think their website is BS'ing us about being on the air.

Trip in VA

02-19-09, 03:41 PM

According to the FCC database, WTPX-DT is on the air with 50 kW, but it's VERY directional. It puts the full 50 kW toward Wausau, and then less than 3 kW in every other direction.

- Trip

sammy4041

02-19-09, 04:24 PM

Yes, thanks Jim. My bad. It should be Channel 8 out of La Crosse.
Anyone else able to get it in Eau Claire now? I tried pointing both
the VHF and UHF parts of the antenna at it, rescanning each time
and still no luck.

Is your antenna outside? I thought you told me one other time that it is.

grgeiger

02-19-09, 04:28 PM

grgeiger

02-19-09, 04:51 PM

WFXS has reached an agreement with WAOW/WYOW to broadcast on 9.3 and 34.3 for the time being.

Innova

02-19-09, 04:57 PM

WooHoo!

Any word if it will be HD? (I'm assuming not, WAOW won't want them to suck up their bandwidth).

gjvrieze

02-19-09, 05:10 PM

WFXS has reached an agreement with WAOW/WYOW to broadcast on 9.3 and 34.3 for the time being.

I told my best friend last night that they should make a deal to go online as sub with another local station, should have done that from the beginning, then get the tower work done and get back online with their final digital....

willscary

02-19-09, 06:18 PM

At 2:30 PM this afternoon, I scanned the work TV and found WFXS Fox 55, but it was shown as digital 9-3. I am sooo glad that you guys found out about their antenna problems so I know what is going on.

As for WTPX, I live on the south side of New London. WTPX is about 2/3 of the way up on the Fox 55 tower. They are very directional, pointing at Wausau. This is nearly perpendicular to the direction I live. I have been lucky enough to get a clear WTPX signal (from 62 miles away) for about 48 hours last December.

When I scan, my tuners all stop for quite a while on channel 46, but can't quite get a lock.

I am still VERY dissapointed in WEAU's signal. I can not get it at all since the first night they went VHF-hi digital.

Bill

Trip in VA

02-19-09, 06:58 PM

Even if the station is on the air.. I would think the TV station will need to serve the city of license which is Antigo. There isn't even a trace of a signal in Antigo. But it looked like the Wittenburg cable system has WTPX on.. They could be running the national feed of Ion but have it listed in the TV listings as WTPX.. ION recently applied for a Must Carry for all of its stations. I did not see WTPX listed on the application.

According to the FCC, that 3 kW or so they're putting toward Antigo is fine. :rolleyes:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/polarplot?frame=Y&temp=38603&rotate=225.00&p0=1.000&p10=0.950&p20=0.790&p30=0.500&p40=0.290&p50=0.220&p60=0.210&p70=0.230&p80=0.260&p90=0.270&p100=0.260&p110=0.250&p120=0.220&p130=0.210&p140=0.210&p150=0.230&p160=0.240&p170=0.240&p180=0.240&p190=0.240&p200=0.240&p210=0.230&p220=0.210&p230=0.210&p240=0.220&p250=0.250&p260=0.260&p270=0.270&p280=0.260&p290=0.230&p300=0.210&p310=0.220&p320=0.290&p330=0.500&p340=0.790&p350=0.950&p360=1.000&

That is what their pattern looks like. I must admit I've never seen another one quite like it.

- Trip

DA1745

02-19-09, 07:22 PM

I was using a DTVPal for testing yesterday that had WKBT channel 41 as 8.1 and KTTC channel 36 as 10.1. After a rescan to find their "new" VHF frequencies, the box removed 8.1 and 10.1 and replaced them with 71.1 and 70.1, respectively. I couldn't figure it out. I believe it must not like when it finds another channel on the same virtual channel so remaps it to a channel no one would be using because it is out of band (above ch. 69).

I tried deleting 70 and 71 and rescanning and they came up that way again. I deleted all the channels and rescanned and that seemed to do the trick. Thank you. I wasn't thinking things through...worried that i wouldn't be able to get 13 back at all if i deleted all the channels and started a new scan.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
As to the second part of my post can any one help out?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15857541&postcount=1112

New Sony TV that's in a partial sub-ground basement can no longer get TV CH's 13.1 or .2 or Ch 48.1. While it is able to get 18.1,2 & 28.1,.2,.3 crystal clear.

While reading the thread up to yesterday there was some mention like that the direction of the TV 13 antenna might have changed but then others said it's still on the same tower. So maybe it's just that the VHF signal is not as strong as the UHF digital signal was (if they are indeed up to full power).

But why no 48.1 all of the sudden? No signal strength at all on the TV's (Sony's) meter. ---> Despite being able to get a 80+ signal upstairs using a Dish DTV Pal. The 48 tower is only about 15 miles away. And 28's and 18 are farther away but come in perfectly. And 48was coming in good before the switch over. I've had the TV rescan several times? Is it essentially the same? Still UHF & At the same power or increased? Can anyone think of anything that might be causing the sudden change?

elocs

02-19-09, 07:31 PM

Trevord

02-19-09, 08:22 PM

Yeah WFXS is broadcasting on 9-3 until they get their digital antenna fixed. It will be on 55-1 after that. I'm glad that they found a way to be back on the air though. Now I can watch FOX again :)

zzz23

02-19-09, 08:35 PM

I must say that here on the northside of La Crosse I receive WEAU channel 13 at exactly the same strength that I did before they shut down analog and my antenna has not moved at all. The antenna locks in 13 at a strong 93 or 94 and it is aimed right toward their tower and it also gets WKBT channel 8 at 99.

I find that interesting that you say that. I live in Onalaska and I lost 13.1, 13.2, 8.1, and 8.2. I just did a re-scan about 10 minutes ago and still no luck. Before they converted I was getting the station at 80 plus signal but now they are about 15 to 20. I has hoping that they were having problems because of the weather but that might not be the case. I don't know if you were the one that was saying you had a Square Shooter but I also have a Square Shoot and it is pointed at the 13 tower. I am kinda wishing that they would of did this in the summer so at least I could try adjusting my antenna without breaking my neck.

elocs

02-19-09, 08:49 PM

I find that interesting that you say that. I live in Onalaska and I lost 13.1, 13.2, 8.1, and 8.2. I just did a re-scan about 10 minutes ago and still no luck. Before they converted I was getting the station at 80 plus signal but now they are about 15 to 20. I has hoping that they were having problems because of the weather but that might not be the case. I don't know if you were the one that was saying you had a Square Shooter but I also have a Square Shoot and it is pointed at the 13 tower. I am kinda wishing that they would of did this in the summer so at least I could try adjusting my antenna without breaking my neck.

I have a Square Shooter, but it's what I use to get WHLA, WXOW, and WLAX. Before the switch it also got WKBT, but no longer. I have a Channel Master 4220 with an inline amp specifically to get WEAU and it has and is working fine. I am now using that to pick up WKBT which locks in at 99. It's odd that you are closer to WEAU and cannot get it, but that may be because of terrain, buildings or trees.

gjvrieze

02-19-09, 10:30 PM

I am getting WEAU-DT-13 tonight, with a Channel Master CECB... It does have dropouts, but is very watchable with super low signal strengths... Not bad for 86.5 miles.... But I think that it a weather system creating the results...

zzz23

02-19-09, 10:47 PM

I have a Square Shooter, but it's what I use to get WHLA, WXOW, and WLAX. Before the switch it also got WKBT, but no longer. I have a Channel Master 4220 with an inline amp specifically to get WEAU and it has and is working fine. I am now using that to pick up WKBT which locks in at 99. It's odd that you are closer to WEAU and cannot get it, but that may be because of terrain, buildings or trees.

I find it very strange that I was able to get digital WEAU and WKBT fine before they stopped broadcasting analog. I would think the Square Shooter should be able to get WKBT at least because it is rated up to 50 miles for UHF and the tower is less then half that to my house. I am starting to wonder if the strength of the signal being broadcast from them is a lot lower then before.

Trip in VA

02-19-09, 10:50 PM

WKBT and WEAU are no longer on UHF, so that ranking doesn't help you with those stations. Both are now on VHF. You'll need an antenna with some gain on VHF.

- Trip

elocs

02-19-09, 10:57 PM

I find it very strange that I was able to get digital WEAU and WKBT fine before they stopped broadcasting analog. I would think the Square Shooter should be able to get WKBT at least because it is rated up to 50 miles for UHF and the tower is less then half that to my house. I am starting to wonder if the strength of the signal being broadcast from them is a lot lower then before.

My Square Shooter is aimed mostly to the SW to get WHLA, WXOW, and WLAX, but I think it was catching WKBT to the NW. I can remember the guy turning it until it just caught WKBT while still getting the others. I could have sworn when I did the rescan on Tuesday that I got 8 with the Square Shooter because previously everything I watched was on the Square Shooter except for WEAU. Maybe the direction of WKBT's signal is not exactly in the same direction before they switched.

I do wonder about the strength of WEAU because it did break up on me for just a moment tonight and it never did that before. I heard a blurb for their news tonight that are going to talk about antennas and direction to pick up WEAU. I'm recording it so I don't miss it.

elocs

02-19-09, 11:19 PM

WKBT and WEAU are no longer on UHF, so that ranking doesn't help you with those stations. Both are now on VHF. You'll need an antenna with some gain on VHF.

- Trip

No problem for me, just an inconvenience. I have a Channel Master 4220 that I use to pick up WEAU (signal strength: 93-94) and it picks up WKBT just fine now (99).

Funny, when I look at the specs for the 4220 it says channels 7-13 & HD: 20 miles, channels 14-69 & HD: 30 miles. With an inline amp I pull in WEAU from 60 miles away exactly as well as I did before the switch.

WEAU just did a blub about receiving their signal on their 10 p.m. news and they pretty much blamed being unable to receive the station on the antenna and they said nothing about their power. They did say to check antennaweb.org and tvfool about the direction of their signal, but then we hear from those who could not get a signal even though their antennas were not moved. Maybe it is the antenna. I guess I am just fortunate that I get all the stations that I previously could get and just as well.

roadfever2

02-19-09, 11:37 PM

Hello Everyone
Well I thought it was time to take the plunge and make my first post. I am located in Hamburg WI - about 20 miles northwest of Wausau. My Sony KDL32XBR6 receives signal from a Terk TV55 (handed down from my grandmother when she moved out of her house) mounted on the east side of my brick chimney - naturally facing due east.
As of this morning I was receiving the following digital channels
7.1 @ 98%
7.2 "
7.3 "
9.1 "
9.2 "
13.1 @ 60%
13.2 "
20.1 @ 99%
20.2 "
20.3 "
Naturally I picked up WFXS on 9.3 this afternoon.

I read several posts about WTPX and it was just bugging the crap out of me that no one was picking it up. A friend of mine (about 10 miles east of me) mentioned that he had been getting it occasionally for the last few weeks so I went on a mission to find the elusive WTPX. I had a Radio Shack 15-1170 inline amplifier installed too close to the TV end of my antenna cable. Well, I removed it, did a rescan and I am now watching some strange cartoons on channel 46.2 - WTPX.
After removing the inline amplifier, I am also recieve the following channels (as well as a slight signal increase on the channels I was already pulling in).
12.1 @ 22%
12.2 "
46.1 @ 38% (Ion)
46.2 " (Qubo)
46.3 " (IonLife)
46.4 " (Worship)
46.5 " (IonLife)
46.6 " (Worship)

So, Yes, WTPX does exist!!! Now I wait for my TVGOS to update after I hit the rack later this evening.

zzz23

02-20-09, 08:45 AM

WKBT and WEAU are no longer on UHF, so that ranking doesn't help you with those stations. Both are now on VHF. You'll need an antenna with some gain on VHF.

- Trip

If WKBT is no longer UHF then they need to change their website. They say they are UHF on channel 41 but remapped to 8. Do you know where you found that information?

hxxp://www.wkbt.com/global/Story.asp?s=7519433
(change the hxxp to http) - Won't let me post URLs

Trip in VA

02-20-09, 08:51 AM

If WKBT is no longer UHF then they need to change their website. They say they are UHF on channel 41 but remapped to 8. Do you know where you found that information?

FCC. I get the data for my website straight from the FCC. They've been settled on going back to channel 8 since 2005.

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=wkbt

- Trip

zzz23

02-20-09, 08:53 AM

My Square Shooter is aimed mostly to the SW to get WHLA, WXOW, and WLAX, but I think it was catching WKBT to the NW. I can remember the guy turning it until it just caught WKBT while still getting the others. I could have sworn when I did the rescan on Tuesday that I got 8 with the Square Shooter because previously everything I watched was on the Square Shooter except for WEAU. Maybe the direction of WKBT's signal is not exactly in the same direction before they switched.

I do wonder about the strength of WEAU because it did break up on me for just a moment tonight and it never did that before. I heard a blurb for their news tonight that are going to talk about antennas and direction to pick up WEAU. I'm recording it so I don't miss it.

Well, If both WKBT and WEAU both changed to VHF that might be my problem. That kinda makes me mad if it is true because now I will have to buy a different antenna and I won't be able to install it until it gets nice out.

As for WHLA, WXOW, and WLAX I am not that concerned because I can get those channels at 90 signal with no antenna even attached to the TV.

Maybe I will give WKBT a call today and see if they have any other information to give me.

willscary

02-20-09, 08:56 AM

I was able to receive WEAU last night and this morning. Must be the clear dry weather.

zzz23

02-20-09, 09:55 AM

FCC. I get the data for my website straight from the FCC. They've been settled on going back to channel 8 since 2005.

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=wkbt

- Trip

That sounds like a disaster waiting to happen if they decide to go from UHF to VHF and also cut analog on the same day. :mad:

gjvrieze

02-20-09, 10:01 AM

I was able to receive WEAU last night and this morning. Must be the clear dry weather.

Emm... Still getting it at 9:01AM this morning, quite a few dropouts though... MORE POWER (how Tim the tool-man of me!)

zzz23

02-21-09, 02:48 PM

No problem for me, just an inconvenience. I have a Channel Master 4220 that I use to pick up WEAU (signal strength: 93-94) and it picks up WKBT just fine now (99).

Funny, when I look at the specs for the 4220 it says channels 7-13 & HD: 20 miles, channels 14-69 & HD: 30 miles. With an inline amp I pull in WEAU from 60 miles away exactly as well as I did before the switch.

WEAU just did a blub about receiving their signal on their 10 p.m. news and they pretty much blamed being unable to receive the station on the antenna and they said nothing about their power. They did say to check antennaweb.org and tvfool about the direction of their signal, but then we hear from those who could not get a signal even though their antennas were not moved. Maybe it is the antenna. I guess I am just fortunate that I get all the stations that I previously could get and just as well.

I called WKBT yesterday and they pretty much told me that I need to get a different antenna because the Square Shooter is only UHF. The manual says it can pick up some VHF but I guess not. So it looks like I am in the market for a new VHF antenna. You said your Channel Master 4220 works good but I looked that one up online and it says that it is only UHF. It looks like they don't make that model anymore but they do have a model 4221. I wonder if that is just the newer model of it? I would hate to buy it and not work.

elocs

02-21-09, 02:58 PM

I called WKBT yesterday and they pretty much told me that I need to get a different antenna because the Square Shooter is only UHF. The manual says it can pick up some VHF but I guess not. So it looks like I am in the market for a new VHF antenna. You said your Channel Master 4220 works good but I looked that one up online and it says that it is only UHF. It looks like they don't make that model anymore but they do have a model 4221. I wonder if that is just the newer model of it? I would hate to buy it and not work.

As I said in a previous post: I look at the specs for the 4220 it says channels 7-13 & HD: 20 miles, channels 14-69 & HD: 30 miles. With an inline amp I pull in WEAU from 60 miles away exactly as well as I did before the switch.

I got my Square Shooter for nothing when I had VOOM. They installed it and aimed it, so I'm not complaining since it pulls in all but WKBT and WEAU nicely. The 4220 is a few years old now and it certainly does seem to be rated higher for UHF (30 miles) than VHF (20 miles) but with an inline amp I get WEAU well and WKBT is at 99 strength. I ordered it online and simply bought 2 antenna poles from Menards and attached it to the house. I just stood on the ground and turned the pole from there until WEAU came in and it's been that way ever since.

bohiti

02-21-09, 10:15 PM

Does anyone know -- When WFXS gets its DTV antenna in the next few days, will it broadcast HD? I notice 9.3 is just SD right now..

willscary

02-21-09, 11:36 PM

Yes, it will. Channel 9.3 is a digital subchannel of WAOW. WAOW was kind enough to allow WFXS to transmit its standard definition signal over part of the channel 9 bandwidth. Channel 9 broadcasts in HD on channel 9.1, plus they broadcast standard def CW on 9.2. Because of this, there is not enough bandwidth left to allow WFXS to show its content in HD.

Bill

DA1745

02-22-09, 04:29 AM

Well, If both WKBT and WEAU both changed to VHF that might be my problem. That kinda makes me mad if it is true because now I will have to buy a different antenna and I won't be able to install it until it gets nice out.... I'm also pissed but not because of the actual change, but just b/c the actual distance range/power seems to be so far from what it was for us in the low power UHF (speaking of TV 13). I realize that many of you are seeing no difference. But it's completely dropped off the face of the Earth for us (with certain antennas) - (The TV that's pulling it in upstairs is an unpowered rabbit ears with Gain control & the gain settings do matter.
To have had it come in so strong & clear on the UHF frequency and now to get nothing with some setups is frustrating. I wonder if "they" knew the effects of going to digital on VHF vs UHF? If they did & still decided to make the change (unless there is some huge cost savings in equipment or power bills....or they HAD to b/c of interference or something along that line)...then IMO it was a step backwards especially if this is all the power they are going to be putting out.

willscary

02-22-09, 08:54 AM

I honestly don't think that any of the stations that switched from UHF to VHF wanted to lose viewership area because that can only hurt advertising revenue.

The problem is with the power that the FCC mandated these stations to use for transmission. The people who did the power calculations must have really missed something in their conversion figures. They guessed entirely too low. Perhaps these calcs were done on a Monday morning or a Friday afternoon, or maybe it was simply finished in a hurry just before their golf league tee times.

Whatever the reason, they royally screwed up. While the people in their contour map might actually be able to pick up the signals, there are many of us who live outside the contour map area with high gain systems. We have always been able to receive a perfect signal (not a grainy, snowy, ghosty signal, but an honest to goodness perfect picture and sound) and now receive nothing at all.

I understand that there is a brick wall effect with digital signals. I also understand that they can not simply jack up the power to all of these stations so they can be seen for a 500 mile radius. However, there should be enough power that people with high gain antenna systems who use very large directional antennas mounted high on large towers can receive the signals that they were able to receive prior to the switch.

It is not as if we have never been able to receive the signals and are now looking for every known channel. I am talking about stations such as WEAU. For me, their old analog VHF signal was perfect. Their pre-transition UHF digital channel was perfect. Why is their new VHF digital channel unreceivable?????

The FCC needs to bump power levels for VHF-hi stations (at least WEAU and WKBT, and perhaps, in the future, WLUK in Green Bay) to at least double and possibly 4 times the transmission power. The added 3-6 dB of signal would no doubt get these signals where they need to be to equal the true reception areas of their pre-transition UHF digital signals.

Bill

Innova

02-22-09, 03:32 PM

So, has anyone heard, did WFXS get their repaired antenna back yet?

Innova

02-22-09, 04:08 PM

I just did a scan and got WFXS on both 9-3 Digital and 55 analog...Where would the 55 analog be coming from, did they put their old antenna back up?

zzz23

02-22-09, 04:12 PM

As I said in a previous post: I look at the specs for the 4220 it says channels 7-13 & HD: 20 miles, channels 14-69 & HD: 30 miles. With an inline amp I pull in WEAU from 60 miles away exactly as well as I did before the switch.

I got my Square Shooter for nothing when I had VOOM. They installed it and aimed it, so I'm not complaining since it pulls in all but WKBT and WEAU nicely. The 4220 is a few years old now and it certainly does seem to be rated higher for UHF (30 miles) than VHF (20 miles) but with an inline amp I get WEAU well and WKBT is at 99 strength. I ordered it online and simply bought 2 antenna poles from Menards and attached it to the house. I just stood on the ground and turned the pole from there until WEAU came in and it's been that way ever since.

Thanks for the information. I will have to see if I can find a Channel Master 4220 online or get a Channel Master Stealthtenna 3100. That seems to be rated up to 45 miles for VHF and I bet that will work also. My antenna is on my roof so I am going to have to wait until warmer weather to do anything about it.

jimboeau

02-22-09, 05:39 PM

Thanks for the information. I will have to see if I can find a Channel Master 4220 online or get a Channel Master Stealthtenna 3100. That seems to be rated up to 45 miles for VHF and I bet that will work also. My antenna is on my roof so I am going to have to wait until warmer weather to do anything about it.

You'd be much better off with one of these over the stealth antenna.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=Y5-7-13

Not very expensive either.

LakeFlambeau

02-22-09, 05:46 PM

elocs

02-22-09, 05:48 PM

You'd be much better off with one of these over the stealth antenna.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=Y5-7-13

Not very expensive either.

That is more simple, less expensive, and has a greater range than the 4220, but years ago when I bought it the 4220 was at that time a highly recommended antenna. It's worked perfectly for me so I can't complain.

mattdp

02-22-09, 05:55 PM

You'd be much better off with one of these over the stealth antenna.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=Y5-7-13

Not very expensive either.

Not to be contrary, but I'd advocate an even bigger antenna, as we all know these VHF-Hi digital stations seem to require all the gain you can get. Consider a: http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=YA1713&mybuyscid=3023886144

jimboeau

02-22-09, 08:08 PM

Not to be contrary, but I'd advocate an even bigger antenna, as we all know these VHF-Hi digital stations seem to require all the gain you can get. Consider a: http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=YA1713&mybuyscid=3023886144

Or this one even a tad bigger....

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=Y10-7-13

zzz23

02-22-09, 10:47 PM

Or this one even a tad bigger....

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=Y10-7-13

I guess I was looking for more of a small UHF\VHF antenna that can get some distance. I know those would probably work a lot better but the wife thinks those type of antenna are "eye sores". That is part of the reason why I got a Square Shooter in the first place because I could put it on the side of the roof that doesn't face the road. I got to keep the peace.

mattdp

02-22-09, 11:36 PM

Antenna gain and WAF are an inverse relationship :cool:

You could always mount the antenna in your attic. That, or get it up on a tower where it's not at noticeable. :D

willscary

02-23-09, 06:34 AM

My wife wass very unreceptive to putting the antennas outside. I had 2 mounted in the attic, but I wanted a more solid digital signal.

I finally just installed a 43' tower and put 2 very large antennas up. She freaked! However, once she got used to it, it stopped bothering her. What she found is that it is very noticeable if you are looking for it. If you are not (as many of our friends would confirm, you would not really notice it at all.

You nitice a tower if you are looking for one. Otherwise, they are not "eyesores" that stick out in a crowd.

Remember, until cable came around and became very popular (late 70's, but not popular until early 80's) every home had at least one antenna on the roof or a tower. Some even had 2 antennas, one for each TV!

Bill

zzz23

02-23-09, 03:03 PM

LakeFlambeau

02-23-09, 03:26 PM

I talked to Ron Wiedemeier at WEAU this morning. Interesting.
Someone who might understand the full technical details of
broadcasting might want to talk to Ron and post a more
detailed description.
Short version is below.

I described how I was able to get
WEAU on the analog signal and 39 Digital signal and
now basically nothing.
He said that when they were transmitting their
analog signal, they had three racks of equipment pumping out the power.
Now they are using one rack. The FCC told them what power
they are to broadcast at. This is all of the power they were
allowed. They have or will be requesting to get more, but only
like 10% more. He said he recently talked to someone out
in Washington DC with the FCC about these power levels,
and they think they have it right. He said he was disappointed
in how this is working out. Seems to beleive they need to
pump out more power and could easily do it, but they can not.
So unless the FCC changes their mind, not much will change.

On my problem, he said my preamp might be causing a
problem with my system. He suggested that a strong UHF signal
might be setting the amplification level on my preamp to a low
level. Thus this distant signal is not getting boosted enough.
In order to test this, I would need to unhook my seperate UHF antenna.
I have a 50 foot tower that I do not climb, so this is not practical.

So for me, I will hope that once the entire DTV converstion
happens in June, that maybe it will be come obvious to the
FCC that they are not letting these VHF High channels
put out enough power. Maybe things will get better then.

Again, if you want to get some good detailed information
on all of this, call 715-835-1313 and ask for Ron.
Maybe someone could do this who has a better
understanding of everything involved and post
their thoughts.

lovebohn

02-23-09, 04:30 PM

I don't see how your preamp could lower the amplifier level. I didn't think they were that smart to auto balance the levels, I'm not an EE though.

gjvrieze

02-23-09, 05:25 PM

Tobias Ziegler

02-23-09, 05:40 PM

I don't see how your preamp could lower the amplifier level. I didn't think they were that smart to auto balance the levels, I'm not an EE though.

He's probably refering to Automatic Gain Control...the gain for the whole amp being automatically adjusted so that the output doesn't exceed a certain level. Assuming equal gain across all frequencies, the strongest incoming signal would dictate the amount of gain for the amp.

But that's just a guess.

willscary

02-23-09, 05:58 PM

sebenste

02-23-09, 07:50 PM

I believe you are right Tobias! What WEAU told you is exactly what I had said Lake Flambeau. I am sure that the power is not enough. WEAU only puts out a very small fraction of their old analog power. They have put in a request to up that power, but only by a small amount. It takes a doubling of power to make a noticeable impact of 3dB, sot the small power gain is not good news.

I have turned my antennas away from WEAU. I gave up. Of course, that means that I now receive both the Green Bay and Wausau market stations at 100% signals, instead of the 60-70% I was getting when facing Eau Claire and LaCrosse.

Bill

Hi Bill,

While it's a little bit dangerous for someone out-of-market who doesn't understand it very well to comment, let me live dangerously and try! :D

Channel 13 was broadcasting on analog. If it's not tuned for a digital broadcast, the efficiency is not as good. So says a reputable engineer I've talked to. Now, I know about channel 13 digital...because we have the NBC affiliate in Rockford, IL also broadcasting digital-only now on 13. They are at 12 kilowatts, and I have trouble getting them 30 miles away with a ChannelMaster 4228 antenna. That antenna has 5 dB gain on channel 13, and although I lock it solidly, the quality is not where I want it to be, and not what the FCC says it should be. It *might* be that the antenna needs to be tuned.

Right now, WEAU is running 22.9 kilowatts and their application is for 26 kw...that increase won't be noticeable to most viewers. It's also at 611 meters, or 1800+'. That's at or higher than Sears Tower (1800')! Sooo...methinks either the antenna needs to be retuned, people need better VHF antennas, or likely both.

Trevord

02-23-09, 09:48 PM

Updated news from the WFXS website:

February 23rd 2:25pm
Our new DTV antenna is in the process of being repaired. We anticipate it being shipped back to town Wednesday evening or early Thursday morning. WFXS engineers and management will work as quickly as possible to get the repaired antenna installed and complete our digital transition. WFXS has been able to work with local station WAOW Newsline 9 to provide our WFXS FOX 55 signal to area viewers on digital 9.3. Engineers are now sending our signal over to channel 9 to broadcast on channel 9.3 in a unique arrangement offered by channel 9's management to help provide some stability to a very shaky DTV transition process.
Viewers will need to rescan digital converter boxes or digital TV's to get this added channel.
We really appreciate the support and understanding that our viewers have expressed.
Keep an eye here for future updates.

mgburg

02-23-09, 09:52 PM

He's probably refering to Automatic Gain Control...the gain for the whole amp being automatically adjusted so that the output doesn't exceed a certain level. Assuming equal gain across all frequencies, the strongest incoming signal would dictate the amount of gain for the amp. ... But that's just a guess.

Yep, that's probably what's happening...the "front end" (or pre-amp) in the converter box or TV set is backing down the strongest signal to also protect the rest of the amplifier from "frying up" the rest of the circuits...to test this, find a splitter/combiner that operates in the 5-450MHz. range (just below the UHF band) and insert it directly in line with the cable coming into the back of your TV/Box...if you NOW get WEAU and/or WKBT, that's the problem...

Now, the fun part...

Which UHF station is beating the living snot out of your equipment? Reasoning might point to whether you live, or are pointing, your antenna right at a UHF station or not. You might even want to consider a trap, or notch, filter that you can tune up and down the bands...trying tp "trap" the offending signal that's keeping you from tuning in the other stations...

It's methodical work...stick with it...

mgburg

02-23-09, 10:07 PM

I've had some calls from folks concerning the 48.1 signal (or lack of) in the Eau Claire area...some of it's a bit confusing but I'm sure there's some reason for it...

When we shut down the analog last Tuesday noon (48.0), there were NO problems and what I saw on the transmitter's output was what I expected...780 kiloWatts ERP to the masses...

We had a few calls from some folks about the lack of the analog signal, some folks thought they were getting digital, but in reality, their boxes were latching onto the 48.0 signal instead, so they needed to "rescan" to correct for that problem...

Then Tuesday night, the power outage at 2024 (8:24 PM)...

Power was restored to the site and stabilized around 2200...we got back on the air to stay at 2203...

Now, we have folks that are saying they can't get us any more, they've rescaned and still get nothing and worse yet, their bunny-ears/rabbit-ears won't keep a stable signal feeding into their box/set.

Well, the bunny-ears/rabbit-ears problem is fairly simple...a properly installed OUTDOOR UHF ANTENNA is a very good starting point...

But, I've been though the DTV encoder this past weekend and I don't see why someone that claims to have gotten us before can't pick us up any more...that has me stumped.

We're still working on any possible problem we can think of...but so far, there's no indication that we're having any type of transmission problem and the antenna is showing that it's in good shape...no VSWR issues or related anomolies...

Hang in there...we all knew that this wasn't going to be the smoothest ride since...whatever... :rolleyes:

willscary

02-23-09, 10:46 PM

Gilbert,

I completely understand that I need a decent antenna. In fact, I have a fairly good VHF antenna mounted on a fairly tall tower. I am actually a little farther away than most people who are trying to receive WEAU, but I was quite certain that I would be able to receive it. I received analog 13 from the same tower and on the same VHF channel flawlessly. I received their pre-transition UHF digital signal from the same tower very well also.

Since this is the case, I would have thought that the WEAU signal would be just as easy to capture now.

I am very much of the opinion that the FCC screwed up and gave VHF highband channels too little power. They should probably have about 4 times the power output that they have been alloted. WEAU is not the only station that has transitioned and taken back their VHF signal for digital. I have had similar results with channel 8 out of LaCrosse and also channels 7 and 9 out of Wausau. I am truly hoping, but I am NOT optimistic, that channel 11 out of Green Bay not will share a similar fate.

I can only hope that someone at the FCC monitors these forums. Not Likely, but it would be helpful if they did!

Bill

jimboeau

02-23-09, 11:44 PM

Yep, that's probably what's happening...the "front end" (or pre-amp) in the converter box or TV set is backing down the strongest signal to also protect the rest of the amplifier from "frying up" the rest of the circuits...to test this, find a splitter/combiner that operates in the 5-450MHz. range (just below the UHF band) and insert it directly in line with the cable coming into the back of your TV/Box...if you NOW get WEAU and/or WKBT, that's the problem...

Now, the fun part...

Which UHF station is beating the living snot out of your equipment? Reasoning might point to whether you live, or are pointing, your antenna right at a UHF station or not. You might even want to consider a trap, or notch, filter that you can tune up and down the bands...trying tp "trap" the offending signal that's keeping you from tuning in the other stations...

It's methodical work...stick with it...

Hi Mark,

What's the word on HD over the air in EC on Fox 48? Last we heard you were waiting on the equipment. Please update us on that!

adler187

02-24-09, 12:28 AM

Hi Bill,

While it's a little bit dangerous for someone out-of-market who doesn't understand it very well to comment, let me live dangerously and try! :D

Channel 13 was broadcasting on analog. If it's not tuned for a digital broadcast, the efficiency is not as good. So says a reputable engineer I've talked to. Now, I know about channel 13 digital...because we have the NBC affiliate in Rockford, IL also broadcasting digital-only now on 13. They are at 12 kilowatts, and I have trouble getting them 30 miles away with a ChannelMaster 4228 antenna. That antenna has 5 dB gain on channel 13, and although I lock it solidly, the quality is not where I want it to be, and not what the FCC says it should be. It *might* be that the antenna needs to be tuned.

Right now, WEAU is running 22.9 kilowatts and their application is for 26 kw...that increase won't be noticeable to most viewers. It's also at 611 meters, or 1800+'. That's at or higher than Sears Tower (1800')! Sooo...methinks either the antenna needs to be retuned, people need better VHF antennas, or likely both.

Digital transmission is no different than analog transmission when it comes to antenna resonance. As long as they are broadcasting on the same frequency, nothing needs to change. RF is RF is RF is RF. Any digital square wave can be decomposed in to a set of analog sine waves using Fourier Analysis. As long as all the composite waves are in the same frequency band as the antenna is tuned for (in this case channel 13 at 210-216 Mhz), which they have to be since that is the only band they have a license for, nothing needs adjusting. The same way with people's antennas. There is nothing fancy or special about an "HD" antenna (I love marketing...) over a normal antenna.

To reccomend to people that they need to get better VHF antennas, when they could receive WEAU analog perfectly fine before the switch, is asinine, especially when the FCC claims that running their current power on digital should be as effective as their old power on analog. If the coverage should be identical, why are so many people complaining about this problem. Also, what about people like my friend, gjvrieze, who has one of the best VHF-HI antennas ever built with 15dB gain and could pick up their analog signal perfectly at 90 mi, when they were running 25% power and now get nothing for digital?

The power levels for VHF-HI currently allowed by the FCC allow decent coverage for the same area as the previous analog signal, however the noise is too great and thus tuners cannot pickup these channels. And you are correct that the extra 3kW won't do much to help either.

ustabe

02-24-09, 10:14 AM

Just a few comments about the channel 13 situation (and no, I don't work for WEAU).

Where I live (Boyceville), channel 13 analog was OK (not great), and channel 8 analog was on the edge of unwatchable. I couldn't receive either digital signal before Feb 17. I now receive both in digital with absolutely no digital artifacts or breakups. So as far as I'm concerned, the transition to digital for these stations is fabulous.

I've learned a few tricks for digital reception over the years, and have dealt successfully with hundreds of viewers complaining about digital reception. The most common issues I've dealt with bear on the channel 13 situation: booster/pre-amp problems, and antenna stability problems. I'll assume those who are on this forum already understand the need for low noise preamps being mounted at the antenna. But many folks don't understand the vulnerability of preamps to overload and intermod. Pre-amps do not have AGC (contrary to the earlier discussion on this forum). Cheap pre-amp mfg's aren't willing to spend the $$ on a detector and control circuitry, and the commercial-grade amplifiers don't need it because a) they are designed to withstand a tremendous amount of input signal without generating intermod; and b) they are installed by folks who know to trap, filter, and attenuate when necessary. I suspect a number of the channel 13 problems are related to preamps (probably not commercial grade) that are generating intermod products that fall out on channel 13, or have other gain instability issues. You wouldn't necessarily see these problems on analog (especially gain instability), but adding them to a DTV signal will kill reception. The solution? A properly installed (filtered and trapped where necessary) commercial grade amplifier. Or better yet, for hi-V and short cable runs, **don't** use a pre-amp (that sounds like sacrilege I'm sure). A good quality RG-6 only loses ~1dB for a 30' run at channel 13 (~3dB/100'). If you're only starting out with 1 or 2dB of headroom, you're going to have problems anyway. Keep in mind the sole purpose of the amplifier is to make up for system losses (coax and splitters). It's not going to give you something for nothing.

Another very common problem is antenna stability. If your antenna sways in the wind, your analog signal will likely still look fine, although you might see a shadow or ghost come and go. Current-generation DTV receiver equalizers work wonders on static (unchanging) multipath, but have a very difficult time keeping up with dynamic multipath, which is what you get when your antenna moves in the wind. When I hear a **non-fringe** DTV viewer tell me their reception is fine at night but not during the day, 90% of the time (no kidding!) the problem is that the antenna is swaying in the wind, **not** that propagation is better at night than in the daytime. Of course, that's not the case for fringe/far fringe viewers. The solution? If you can correlate poor reception to windy conditions, stabilize your antenna's mount.

And just a word about DTV vs. analog power ratings (those without a technical bent may want to move on to the next message...). Comparing DTV and analog power is like comparing kiwis and bananas. DTV power is measured as an average, analog TV power is measured as a peak power. Not many folks know that DTV transmitters need to be built to transmit 4 times more than their authorized TPO(transmitter power output), simply because the average rating of DTV power assumes a 4x peak power (actually it is slightly higher than 4x). To put it another way, DTV transmitters transmit a peak power 4x their average TPO. So, 6dB (4x) of the power difference between analog and digital can be accounted for solely in the way the power is measured. And **much** more power is required at UHF than at VHF for comparable coverage (whether digital or analog). For example, the max hi-VHF (analog) power is 316kW, but at UHF, for the same coverage (in truth, probably not as good coverage), you'd need 5MW.

Did the FCC screw up with VHF DTV power authorizations? Perhaps. Will more power help? Absolutely. But in every failure-to-receive hi-V DTV problem I've dealt with so far (assuming previous good analog reception), there were easily-remediated issues with pre-amps or antenna stability.

elocs

02-24-09, 11:05 AM

I read all of these posts of people having so much trouble receiving WEAU and I feel just plain lucky. My Channel Master 4220 is only rated at 20 miles for VHF and with a cheap inline amp I am receiving a strong signal from WEAU from about 60 miles to the south here in La Crosse. My antenna is only about 18' off the ground and I have 2 clamps holding it to the house so I can actually hear it sway when it is windy.

All in all I didn't experience any change in how WEAU comes in at my house and reading the results of others I have no idea why there was no change at all for me after the switch. I won't look a gift horse in the mouth though.

willscary

02-24-09, 07:19 PM

OK.

You have heard my complaints. What everyone needs to realize is that digital is all or nothing. A signal strong enough to produce a fair analog signal should be plenty good enough to produce a perfect digital signal because there are only 3 types of digital reception...nothing, perfect, and "right on the edge".

I am far enough away that I should probably not receive WEAU at all. Fortunately for me, I have owned the same great VHF-highbander that gjvrieze uses. In fact, I have TWO! Since installing the Funke, I had always had perfect reception of WEAU's analog signal. No ghosts, no snow, no lines, no kidding! Since the switch, I have been able to receive it off and on. I finally turned the antenna north to Wausau so as to get a perfect 100% with both channels 7 and 9.

Ustabe, you have many good points. Anyone looking to improve thair reception would really learn a lot from your post. Unfortunately, I do not have that problem. I have the very best antennas and the excellent CM 7777 preamp on top of a 43' tower on the west side of a very tall hill. I can see towards Eau Claire for about 15-20 miles to the horizon.

WEAU just plain does not transmit their digital signal as far as their old analog signal. Period! WKBT channel 8 out of LaCrosse does not broadcast as far either. Neither of these VHF-hi signals penetrate as far as their pre-transition UHF signals did either.

VHF-hi stations should all receive at least a 3dB power increase, and 6dB would be better, in order to keep signal range the same. Perhaps digital signals produce large amounts of interference when they fall off and must be kept low so as to not affect stations hundreds of miles away...I don't know. I do know, for a fact, that the stations that I once got perfectly in both analog and digital are now dark since moving to a digital VHF-hi signal. (OK, so 112 and 132 miles are a long ways away, but it worked before, and I want it to continue to work!)

Bill

sammy4041

02-24-09, 08:18 PM

Hi Mark,

What's the word on HD over the air in EC on Fox 48? Last we heard you were waiting on the equipment. Please update us on that!

I couldnt the response out quick enough, Mark I hope you didnt think you could get away that easy. :)

gjvrieze

02-24-09, 08:29 PM

N9IWP

02-24-09, 11:12 PM

No WEAU tonight at all. I didn't recieve it on the 17th (was about 30 on the power meter) tonight it is at about 9 (about the same as if I picked a random channel). Between the 18th and tonight I'd get a 60 - 75. WKBT is still coming in so I doubt it is the antenna (it is a rooftop antenna that is not on a rotator). Will continue to monitor.

Brian

jlsc

02-25-09, 09:28 AM

2-74 Basic & Extended Basic Tier lineup (don't get the digital 80's chs like G4 etc. with the QAM tuner).
------- -------- -------- ------- -------- ------- ------- --------
19.5 Fox--KMSP--(Ch 9 in MN)
80.4 through 80.51 - Digital Music Channels
81.1 Chippewa Valley CH96 - Actual CH96 is there but it's qlty is poor & fuzzy so i use 81.1 or --> Also on 993.1 Haven't seen any HD content on it
81.5 Chippewa Valley CH97 - Actual CH97 is there but it's qlty is poor & fuzzy so i use 81.5 or --> Also on 994.1 Haven't seen any HD content on it
82.8 Charter CH7(Charter's "for sale" network)
81.4 My Network--WFTC--(My 29) - HD somewhere in MN
81.7 CBS--WCCO--(Ch4 In MN)
83.1 PBS--WHWC--(Ch28 in Menomonie, WI) LOCAL Content same as 2 Charter, 28OTA, ??, 107.2 for HD PBS QAM
83.3 CBS--WCCO--(Ch4 In MN) Not sure yet what difference is between it & 81.7 (possible one is HD) can't tell yet....If one is HD it's 83.3
83.4 ABC--WQOW--(TV18.1 in Eau Claire) LOCAL Same content as 5 Charter, 18OTA, ??,108.2 for HD QAM
83.5 ABC--KTSP--(Ch5 in MN) ? Not sure if HD at all
83.6 NBC--WEAU--(TV13.1 in Eau Claire) LOCAL Same content as 6 Charter, 13OTA, ??,107.1 for HD QAM
83.7 CBS--WKBT--(TV8.1 in La Crosse) ~LOCAL Same content as 8 Charter, 8OTA, ??, 108.1 for HD QAM
83.8 PBS--TPT--(CH2 in MN TC)
83.9 My Network--WKBT (TV8.2 in La Crosse)
83.10 NBC--KARE--(TV11 in MN)
84.4, 84.7, & 87.12 - Infomercial channels GRRR!
85.2 C-SPAN 2
89.1 WISCONSIN EYE ? State/Govt/Educational Channel
91.1 - 91.10, 92.4-92.5, & 92.10 -- On Demand (boy that's fun wish you could see whose renting what LOL) or how many people are in the node or ? Saw some good movies & some raunchy stuff too!
100.3 C-SPAN3 IDK if this has been remapped. It was working the other day; today it's not, but 110.12 also has C-SPAN3 so no worries.
102.5 FOX--WEUX--(CH48.1 in Eau Claire) LOCAL HD - same shows as 3 Charter, 48OTA, ??, but in HD
107.1 NBC--WEAU--(CH13.1 in Eau Claire) LOCAL HD - same shows as 6 Charter, 13OTA, ??, 83.6QAM, but in HD
107.2 PBS--WHWC--(CH28.1 in Menomonie) LOCAL HD - same shows as 2 Charter, 28OTA, ??, 83.1 QAM, but in HD
107.3 PBS--WHWC--(CH28.2? in Menomonie) LOCAL -
107.4 WEATHER--WEAUTV(CH13.2 in Eau Claire) LOCAL WEATHER
107.6 PBS--WHWC--(CH28.3? in Menomonie) LOCAL -
108.1 CBS--WKBT--(CH8.1 in La Crosse) ~LOCAL HD - same shows as 8 Charter, 8OTA, ??, 83.7 QAM, but in HD
108.2 ABC--WQOW--(CH18.1 in Eau Claire) LOCAL HD - Same shows as 5 Charter, 18OTA, ??, 83.4 QAM, but in HD.
Governmental/Local City Channels:
987.1 & 988.1 - Winona; 989.1 UW-La Crosse; 990.1 & 991.1 - Stoughton;
992.1 Rice Lake?; 993.1 & 994.1 Chippevally stations Same content as 81.1 & 81.5 (CH 96 & CH97) no issues with fuzz or static like on Ch96 or 97.

I turned on my TV last night at 6pm and I no longer can get the stations from the Cities in Eau Claire. Does anyone know why?

Me in EC

02-25-09, 02:32 PM

adler187

02-25-09, 03:29 PM

Since the transition I have not been able to get channel 8.1 & 8.2 and I never had problems before. I have a roof top mounted Philips mant902 antenna and I'm using the RCA DTA800 converter box. I have done a rescan after each antenna turn with no luck. I contacted WKBT and was told that they have noticed some converter boxes need to have the factory reset done and then do the rescan--that came up with nothing as well. Not too happy about this since the reason I got the antenna was to get this and hopefully other channels. No probs with the others (13, 18, 28, and 48 as well as their substations). Any suggestions?

First, post your TVFool results so we can see what we are up against.

It could be the converter box is messed up or the converter box does not have a sensitive enough tuner to pick up the signal. To rule out the converter box, I would try a another one. See if you can borrow a converter box from a neighbor or friend. Otherwise you can always get one from Wal*Mart to test -- they tend to be easy on returns.

If you can't get another box to work, I think you are in the same boat a lot of us are in for VHF-HI DTV. It just doesn't work well at the current power levels.

elocs

02-25-09, 05:21 PM

Well, I wonder what happened today with WKBT here in La Crosse because since the switch last week I had no longer been able to receive it using my Square Shooter antenna like I previously had been able to do although it is pointed mostly to the SW to get WXOW, WHLA, and WLAX. All of a sudden today I am getting it using my Square Shooter at about a power of 84, certainly not as good as the 99 on my Channel Master 4220, but certainly watchable with only a dropout every once in a great while. What could have changed?

On edit: a signal strength of 84 evidently is right on the edge of being receivable, because if is drops below that I can no longer get WKBT, but this is the first time I have been able to get it at all after the switch using the Square Shooter antenna.

On edit again: My old VOOM receiver seems to be able to lock onto WKBT at a lower strength than my LG 4200A which breaks up and my Zenith converter box still cannot get it at all.

ustabe

02-25-09, 05:52 PM

The square shooter is vertically polarized for Hi-VHF. Most TV stations are horizontal-only. You might try tilting the square shooter a bit for hi-VHF reception.

Ustabe

elocs

02-25-09, 06:08 PM

The square shooter is vertically polarized for Hi-VHF. Most TV stations are horizontal-only. You might try tilting the square shooter a bit for hi-VHF reception.

Ustabe

Getting WKBT on the Square Shooter is simply a matter of convenience for me since I can get it at a 99 signal strength on my Channel Master 4220. I have an A/B switch for my antennas with the Channel Master previously for just WEAU and the Square Shooter for the rest. Now I have to use the Channel Master for both WEAU and WKBT.

Why is it an annoyance? Well, I've split the signal for the Square Shooter to go to my computer monitor and to my bedroom, so the only station I could not receive on my monitor or in the bedroom is WEAU and that was ok. Now I cannot get WKBT either. I wanted to keep the splits simple and not add a second cable just for WEAU. Besides, if I split the signal from the Channel Master I lose WEAU unless I would add an amp and that just makes things less simple. Also, there seems to be less and less that I want to watch on WEAU anyways and can easily catch shows online and watch them on my 28" computer monitor (again, simple).

DA1745

02-25-09, 10:57 PM

I talked to Ron Wiedemeier at WEAU this morning. Interesting.
Again, if you want to get some good detailed information
on all of this, call 715-835-1313 and ask for Ron.
Hi, thanks for posting that & your previous message. I wasn't able to reach him & that's probably a good thing b/c I sound like an idiot trying to explain things...but I recorded the message the best I could based off the information you posted. Hopefully they will track complaint calls for (pseudo-evidence to petition the FCC).

At least he seems aware of the shortcomings of the current power... That is a start, not blinding thinking that it is people's antennas:) Yes, nothing like acknowledging that there is a problem over & above basic user issues. The only thing we can do is keep applying pressure (especially with the financial argument of the views that are missing out on there commercials **Cough**crappy**

I've had some calls from folks concerning the 48.1 signal (or lack of) in the Eau Claire area...some of it's a bit confusing but I'm sure there's some reason for it...

Now, we have folks that are saying they can't get us any more, they've rescaned and still get nothing and worse yet, their bunny-ears/rabbit-ears won't keep a stable signal feeding into their box/set.

Well, the bunny-ears/rabbit-ears problem is fairly simple...a properly installed OUTDOOR UHF ANTENNA is a very good starting point... (((That's like saying to the cancer patient that we are going to remove your appendix for you )) if we had a strong signal w/ rabbit ears prior to the change over then why have (in some cases) we lost completely lost a signal???? :confused: If it was a situation like with WEAU where they switched from UHF to VHF, I am no less frustrated but maybe more understanding of the signal problems than WEUX's UHF to UHF problem(s)--Maybe that's not fair?
But, I've been though the DTV encoder this past weekend and I don't see why someone that claims to have gotten us before can't pick us up any more...that has me stumped.

We're still working on any possible problem we can think of...but so far, there's no indication that we're having any type of transmission problem and the antenna is showing that it's in good shape...no VSWR issues or related anomolies...

Hang in there...we all knew that this wasn't going to be the smoothest ride since...whatever... :rolleyes: Thank you for the frank and IMHO forth-right acknowledgement of not being all knowing and understanding that there may still be a yet undiscovered / understood problem from outside of the users home.

...To reccomend to people that they need to get better VHF antennas, when they could receive WEAU analog perfectly fine before the switch, is asinine, especially when the FCC claims that running their current power on digital should be as effective as their old power on analog. If the coverage should be identical, why are so many people complaining about this problem. I hope in 6 months to a year from now people aren't thinking & feeling (can we just go back to analog...). :p

DA1745

02-25-09, 11:09 PM

2-74 Basic & Extended Basic Tier lineup (don't get the digital 80's chs like G4 etc. with the QAM tuner).
------- -------- -------- ------- -------- ------- ------- --------
19.5 Fox--KMSP--(Ch 9 in MN)
80.4 through 80.51 - Digital Music Channels...
81.4 My Network--WFTC--(My 29) - HD somewhere in MN
81.7 CBS--WCCO--(Ch4 In MN)
83.1 PBS--WHWC--(Ch28 in Menomonie, WI) LOCAL Content same as 2 Charter, 28OTA, ??, 107.2 for HD PBS QAM
83.3 CBS--WCCO--(Ch4 In MN) Not sure yet what difference is between it & 81.7 (possible one is HD) can't tell yet....If one is HD it's 83.3
83.4 ABC--WQOW--(TV18.1 in Eau Claire) LOCAL Same content as 5 Charter, 18OTA, ??,108.2 for HD QAM
83.5 ABC--KTSP--(Ch5 in MN) ? Not sure if HD at all
83.6 NBC--WEAU--(TV13.1 in Eau Claire) LOCAL Same content as 6 Charter, 13OTA, ??,107.1 for HD QAM
83.7 CBS--WKBT--(TV8.1 in La Crosse) ~LOCAL Same content as 8 Charter, 8OTA, ??, 108.1 for HD QAM
83.8 PBS--TPT--(CH2 in MN TC)
83.9 My Network--WKBT (TV8.2 in La Crosse)
83.10 NBC--KARE--(TV11 in MN)

85.2 C-SPAN 2
89.1 WISCONSIN EYE ? State/Govt/Educational Channel
91.1 - 91.10, 92.4-92.5, & 92.10 -- On Demand (boy that's fun wish you could see whose renting what LOL) or how many people are in the node or ? Saw some good movies & some raunchy stuff too!

Still getting these:
102.5 FOX--WEUX--(CH48.1 in Eau Claire) LOCAL HD - same shows as 3 Charter, 48OTA, ??, but in HD
107.1 NBC--WEAU--(CH13.1 in Eau Claire) LOCAL HD - same shows as 6 Charter, 13OTA, ??, 83.6QAM, but in HD
107.2 PBS--WHWC--(CH28.1 in Menomonie) LOCAL HD - same shows as 2 Charter, 28OTA, ??, 83.1 QAM, but in HD
107.3 PBS--WHWC--(CH28.2? in Menomonie) LOCAL -
107.4 WEATHER--WEAUTV(CH13.2 in Eau Claire) LOCAL WEATHER
107.6 PBS--WHWC--(CH28.3? in Menomonie) LOCAL -
108.1 CBS--WKBT--(CH8.1 in La Crosse) ~LOCAL HD - same shows as 8 Charter, 8OTA, ??, 83.7 QAM, but in HD
108.2 ABC--WQOW--(CH18.1 in Eau Claire) LOCAL HD - Same shows as 5 Charter, 18OTA, ??, 83.4 QAM, but in HD.
Governmental/Local City Channels:
987.1 & 988.1 - Winona; 989.1 UW-La Crosse; 990.1 & 991.1 - Stoughton;
992.1 Rice Lake?; 993.1 & 994.1 Chippevally stations Same content as 81.1 & 81.5 (CH 96 & CH97) no issues with fuzz or static like on Ch96 or 97.

I turned on my TV last night at 6pm and I no longer can get the stations from the Cities in Eau Claire. Does anyone know why? Hey jlsc, no I don't know why but I just wanted to confirm that it happened to me too. What made the situation a little worse for me is that I picked that day to un-install and update all my graphics card drivers and TV tuner card drivers.... So it took me a while of trouble shooting to know that CHARTER had removed the Channels KTSP, WCCO, KARE 11, MY NETWORK 29, and maybe a few others and that it wasn't a result of my changes' effects on Vista Media Center (TV Pack). The main local ones are still there, so I guess that's something but I was really digging QAM with the extra channels.

I hope posting my QAM list publically here & on a QAM channel listing site didn't tip them off or have anything to do with them now removing them. I sat on it for a while....but I noted that in other markets they offer locals, plus all kinds of others like TNT, NG, Discover, TBS etc.
THIS SUCKS! I've waited a few days to see if they were just remapping the channel line up. But tomorrow it's time to call and complain / ask them for a remedy. Those stations put out much better news broadcasts.... Seems they missed removing one too.

DOES ANYONE KNOW THE LOCAL PHONE NUMBER FOR THE CHARTER MAIN OFFICE in EAU CLAIRE?...they don't publish them in the phonebook anymore and calling the 1888/1800 numbers usually get's me NO where. They tell me the office only has a fax number listed. I have to laugh b/c everytime I go in there they are all on the phone so I know they have them & that they are talking to someone (probably corporate, but please ask if anyone is going into there office or happens to have it written down or saw it posted somewhere. THANK YOU!!

sebenste

02-26-09, 01:22 AM

Hi Bill,

Gilbert,

I completely understand that I need a decent antenna. In fact, I have a fairly good VHF antenna mounted on a fairly tall tower. I am actually a little farther away than most people who are trying to receive WEAU, but I was quite certain that I would be able to receive it. I received analog 13 from the same tower and on the same VHF channel flawlessly. I received their pre-transition UHF digital signal from the same tower very well also.

Since this is the case, I would have thought that the WEAU signal would be just as easy to capture now.

I am very much of the opinion that the FCC screwed up and gave VHF highband channels too little power. They should probably have about 4 times the power output that they have been alloted. WEAU is not the only station that has transitioned and taken back their VHF signal for digital. I have had similar results with channel 8 out of LaCrosse and also channels 7 and 9 out of Wausau. I am truly hoping, but I am NOT optimistic, that channel 11 out of Green Bay not will share a similar fate.

I can only hope that someone at the FCC monitors these forums. Not Likely, but it would be helpful if they did!

Bill

Latter statement: If the FCC people do, they don't post, and I don't think they'd be allowed to, anyway.

Let me tell you our experience here in Chicago. WLS-DT, our ABC affiliate now on channel 52, has been testing on channel 7 late at night. They have been assigned 4.4 kilowatts at 1700' from the FCC from Sears Tower. (Note: WEAU has 22.6 kw from 1800').

During the tests, I checked to see if I could get them. I was using a DTT-900 tuner (the DTT-900 and 901 are excellent 6th generation tuner chips with great long-range reception capabilities), and a CM 7777 preamp with a CM 4228 UHF antenna diplexed to quad shielded cable to a TV 50' down the cable. I am 60 miles due west of them, kind of low in a river valley. I have a one-story townhome with a large VHF-only antenna in my attic from Winegard; see the attached pics below for shots of those.

I was getting reception quality of about 70% on the tuner's 100% scale. That was 20% above what was needed for a solid lock (50%). And just before they shut off the analog to do this, I had significant amounts of "sparklies" (atmospheric noise) which made reception even tougher. As for terrain, it's pretty much flat from Sears to me, which it is not, of course, in your case for your situation.

While WWTO-DT 10 in Ottawa, IL was at 50 watts ERP(!) at 682', two people I knew using large VHF-UHF combo antennas could lock it 25 miles away.

So, let me ask this:

1. I wish I could do a terrain profile between you and WEAU. Is there anything you suspect getting in the way?

2. Is your tuner a 5th or 6th generation? 6th gen include all 2008 Samsung models (as far as I know), summer 2008 and later Mitsubishis.
I'm using a CM 4228 to get my local channel 13 digital, at 12 kw and 700'. That's *1,300* feet lower than WEAU's 2000' (611 meter) tower, and I have friends who can lock WREX-DT 13 Rockford 60 miles away using a large VHF-UHF combo antenna. And that with some terrain in the way.
3. How efficient is your current VHF antenna? It should get 7 or 8 dB gain on channel 13, at least.

Yeah, I'm probably off on my thinking, but goodness, 2000' at 22.6 kw should go a long way on 13.

sammy4041

02-27-09, 09:03 AM

Well folks, I am going to calmly unhook my antenna and be satisfied with the crappy analog local stations that dishnetwork provideds or maybe call directv. I have waited and this is what I waited for.

Pre Trans.

WKTB 75-80 percent
WEAU 80-90 no dropouts
PBS Menom 70-80 Ok most of the time
WQOW 95-100 fine
WEUX 70-80 ok most of the time

Post Trans.

WKTB Nothing
WEAU 80-90 Numerous dropouts
PBS Same
WQOW Same
WEUX Same

Since WKTB is where I watch 90 percent of my programming I dont see any point in messing around with this anymore. Apparently Eau Claire is not a big enought city to have your major networks in digital.

This is what I get from having an attic setup, but it worked before so that is my justification for being a little upset. And yes I scanned channels and bought a VHF.

I even put the temporarliy put the antenna outside and same results

I am signing off, screw this. :mad:

I have been fighting this for the last 2 years only to go backwards.

Well I am quick enough to complain about stuff so I better report when it gets better also.

With the exception of WKTB which doesnt seem to have a glimmer of hope, the other channels I posted about are coming in fine. WEAU seemed like it was much better starting about 2 nights ago and I did nothing on my end. So I am not sure if they tweaked something or what.

gjvrieze

02-27-09, 10:28 AM

3. How efficient is your current VHF antenna? It should get 7 or 8 dB gain on channel 13, at least.

Yeah, I'm probably off on my thinking, but goodness, 2000' at 22.6 kw should go a long way on 13.

I have the same antenna as Willscary, it is the "best" VHF-HI antenna out there, between 14-15dB across the entire VHF-HI band. It is a Funke psp.1922, very hard to get, and is a proven performer...

sebenste

02-27-09, 09:24 PM

I have the same antenna as Willscary, it is the "best" VHF-HI antenna out there, between 14-15dB across the entire VHF-HI band. It is a Funke psp.1922, very hard to get, and is a proven performer...

Wow. And you had great analog reception before. As they say...something is rotten in the state of Denmark. Using a Radio Shack VU-90 (utter garbage compared to the Funke), I was able to constantly get a low quality, unlockable, but "always there" signal on Milwaukee's WMVS-DT 8 from 90 miles out, with said antenna in my one-story attic. Again, terrain pretty flat, but using a DTT-901, I was able to get it. WMVS is at 1000', IIRC, and at 30 kw.

What tuner are you using? Is there any chance you could try out a Zenith DTT-901 or a Samsung or Mistubishi 2008 or later HDTV model?

sebenste

02-27-09, 09:33 PM

gjvrieze

02-27-09, 09:55 PM

Wow. And you had great analog reception before. As they say...something is rotten in the state of Denmark. Using a Radio Shack VU-90 (utter garbage compared to the Funke), I was able to constantly get a low quality, unlockable, but "always there" signal on Milwaukee's WMVS-DT 8 from 90 miles out, with said antenna in my one-story attic. Again, terrain pretty flat, but using a DTT-901, I was able to get it. WMVS is at 1000', IIRC, and at 30 kw.

What tuner are you using? Is there any chance you could try out a Zenith DTT-901 or a Samsung or Mistubishi 2008 or later HDTV model?

Ya, it is a GREAT antenna, I want to take it down (on the roof currently) measure it (so I can make copies for myself) and mount it on an arbor near the top of my tower for the Twin Cities (I get pretty decent pictures on analog KARE and KMSP)...

I do not have a Zenith handy to test with, but I have DTVpal and Channel Master CECB around, that is what I have been using for testing, as well as my HDHomeRuns...

I do have (2) 100kW FM stations with LOS (I can see their 1100ft tower at night from my tower looking very carefully) at 6 miles dead in line with WKBT (a little off aim, but still strong for WEAU) That prolly does not help...

jakob330

02-28-09, 10:51 AM

I have the same antenna as Willscary, it is the "best" VHF-HI antenna out there, between 14-15dB across the entire VHF-HI band. It is a Funke psp.1922, very hard to get, and is a proven performer...

So, where does one buy a Funke psp.1922 ???
Where did you get it?
I'm looking at a Winegard YA 1713. it's got 10DB gain.
good, but 14-15 IS better. How much for that Funke?

gjvrieze

02-28-09, 11:27 AM

So, where does one buy a Funke psp.1922 ???
Where did you get it?
I'm looking at a Winegard YA 1713. it's got 10DB gain.
good, but 14-15 IS better. How much for that Funke?

Got it from another forum member... Bad news is that it is the last one that he had to sell, maybe someone else will want to sell one...
The difference between it and the YA-1713 is HUGE, I think it might be more then the 5dB... I am wondering if the Winegard is rated in dBi and the Funke in dBd, the difference is that big...(that would make a 7.5dB deference from the start and maybe Winegard is a little liberal with 10dB rating)
At almost 80 miles with a 200ft hill directly in the path, I get the Twin Cities stations (KARE-TV and KMSP-TV) almost perfect with the Funke (24/7), with the YA1713, it would rarely look even half ways decent at the midday...

willscary

02-28-09, 11:44 AM

Greg is a king! I am truly lucky to have bought his last 2 1922s...that is, until he found yours hiding somewhere!

These antennas are surprisingly light. They are long, but not very wide and man, do they suck in the signals!

(just rubbing it in for those who don't have one :-D )

Bill

mattdp

02-28-09, 11:49 AM

I am wondering if the Winegard is rated in dBi and the Funke in dBd, the difference is that big...(that would make a 7.5dB deference from the start and maybe Winegard is a little liberal with 10dB rating)

I think your right about this one. Winegard's measurements have always been rather generous. If I remember right from looking at HDTV Primer models, that was about right.

sebenste

02-28-09, 12:11 PM

Ya, it is a GREAT antenna, I want to take it down (on the roof currently) measure it (so I can make copies for myself) and mount it on an arbor near the top of my tower for the Twin Cities (I get pretty decent pictures on analog KARE and KMSP)...

I do not have a Zenith handy to test with, but I have DTVpal and Channel Master CECB around, that is what I have been using for testing, as well as my HDHomeRuns...

I do have (2) 100kW FM stations with LOS (I can see their 1100ft tower at night from my tower looking very carefully) at 6 miles dead in line with WKBT (a little off aim, but still strong for WEAU) That prolly does not help...

Whoa, wait. Did you see any interference on analog 13 with that? FM interference kills DTV signals fast...

Innova

02-28-09, 12:26 PM

So what is up with WFXS? No updates on their site since Monday, and they said the expected to have the antenna by Thurs morning. Any chance they will be broadcasting in HD tomorrow?

jakob330

02-28-09, 12:27 PM

Got it from another forum member... Bad news is that it is the last one that he had to sell, maybe someone else will want to sell one...
The difference between it and the YA-1713 is HUGE, I think it might be more then the 5dB... I am wondering if the Winegard is rated in dBi and the Funke in dBd, the difference is that big...(that would make a 7.5dB deference from the start and maybe Winegard is a little liberal with 10dB rating)
At almost 80 miles with a 200ft hill directly in the path, I get the Twin Cities stations (KARE-TV and KMSP-TV) almost perfect with the Funke (24/7), with the YA1713, it would rarely look even half ways decent at the midday...

Well, what would you recommend? Something, I can actually buy, that is.

gjvrieze

02-28-09, 01:11 PM

Whoa, wait. Did you see any interference on analog 13 with that? FM interference kills DTV signals fast...

Ya, it was not great, neither was WKBT-TV... I have the internal trap set to IN... I am thinking about grabbing a bunch of highend FM traps for all of my antennas and putting them inline before the amps and see what happens (yes, another trip up the tower in the winter, GREAT!)

Joewee

02-28-09, 02:23 PM

Well I am quick enough to complain about stuff so I better report when it gets better also.

With the exception of WKTB which doesnt seem to have a glimmer of hope, the other channels I posted about are coming in fine. WEAU seemed like it was much better starting about 2 nights ago and I did nothing on my end. So I am not sure if they tweaked something or what.

I talked with an engineer at WKBT on Friday and he was very helpful.
I think his name was Mike. They are aware of the problem in Eau Claire
and have a tentative go ahead from the FCC to increase their power
in 2 or 3 weeks. Something about how the VHF doesn't carry the digital
signal as well as the UHF freq. Hopefully in 3 weeks or so we can pick
up Wkbt in Eau Claire again. He did give me one other idea to try as well
and that is to manually enter 8.1 channel into your TV or Digital box and
try to tweak the signal that way.

It sounds as though this is a problem nation wide with the Uhf freqs
that have been switched to Vhf.

bohiti

02-28-09, 03:33 PM

Anyone else having problems with Wausau channels 9 & 20? I live in Stevens Point here and usually get 7, 9, and 20 in rock solid. I still get 7 rock solid, but barely get anything in 9 and 20 since Friday afternoon.

All three are on same tower and I only get one which makes me doubt its my setup.

willscary

02-28-09, 04:44 PM

I live outside of New London so I use the Green Bay PBS station, but channels 7 and 9 are full strength here...97-100%. Channel 9 comes in just as well as channel 7 here...I just checked it.

Bill

jimboeau

02-28-09, 07:21 PM

I talked with an engineer at WKBT on Friday and he was very helpful.
I think his name was Mike. They are aware of the problem in Eau Claire
and have a tentative go ahead from the FCC to increase their power
in 2 or 3 weeks. Something about how the VHF doesn't carry the digital
signal as well as the UHF freq. Hopefully in 3 weeks or so we can pick
up Wkbt in Eau Claire again. He did give me one other idea to try as well
and that is to manually enter 8.1 channel into your TV or Digital box and
try to tweak the signal that way.

It sounds as though this is a problem nation wide with the Uhf freqs
that have been switched to Vhf.

Luckily I've had no problems with WKBT here in Eau Claire. That's using my 4228 on the roof. I thought it might not come in anymore since the 4228 is a UHF antenna but it does. I lost a few signal points from before but still stable. I have a channel 8 cut antenna that will be going up once it gets a little warmer out.

sebenste

03-01-09, 02:33 AM

Ya, it was not great, neither was WKBT-TV... I have the internal trap set to IN... I am thinking about grabbing a bunch of highend FM traps for all of my antennas and putting them inline before the amps and see what happens (yes, another trip up the tower in the winter, GREAT!)

I used to live about 15 miles southeast of downtown Chicago and the Sears Tower. And with my VHF/UHF antenna back in the 1970s/80s, I blew the cable company's reception out of the water. Except...

For all those blasted "fishbone" lines on channel 5, our NBC station! Finally, at age 13, I figured it out: as I walked to Wentworth avenue and looked north, I saw a 400' tower with red flashing lights. On channel 6, I'd hear Gospel music and wondered why. A radio Shack guy figured it out for me. I slapped on a 30 dB FM trap to filter out that 50 kw 92.3 FM blowtorch and was blown away that there was actually a channel 6 in Milwaukee that I could actually get! :D Not to mention, 5 was almost perfect after that.

Fast forward to today. I'm 2 miles northwest of a 20 kw, 7 miles southeast of a 4 kw, and I can see that tower from here, and 10 miles from two 50 kw. And a channel 13 to get. The CM 7777 preamp knocks them down 20 dB, but I gave the FM trap from Radio Shack to a friend who lives down the street from a 5 kw FM that fixed his problems.

Also, if you don't have quad shielded RG-6 cable (compared to normal bi-shielded), it does help in these types of RF Hades scenarios.

gjvrieze

03-01-09, 09:30 AM

I talked with an engineer at WKBT on Friday and he was very helpful.
I think his name was Mike. They are aware of the problem in Eau Claire
and have a tentative go ahead from the FCC to increase their power
in 2 or 3 weeks. Something about how the VHF doesn't carry the digital
signal as well as the UHF freq. Hopefully in 3 weeks or so we can pick
up Wkbt in Eau Claire again. He did give me one other idea to try as well
and that is to manually enter 8.1 channel into your TV or Digital box and
try to tweak the signal that way.

It sounds as though this is a problem nation wide with the Uhf freqs
that have been switched to Vhf.

Sweet deal; I have been telling my best friend that Eau Claire is going to be a problem with WKBT-DT-8 (as you guys up there, are about the same distance as I am from the tower), as I am 56 miles from the tower, having got the UHF DT PERFECT, I am having some dropouts with the VHF DT....

gjvrieze

03-01-09, 09:33 AM

I used to live about 15 miles southeast of downtown Chicago and the Sears Tower. And with my VHF/UHF antenna back in the 1970s/80s, I blew the cable company's reception out of the water. Except...

For all those blasted "fishbone" lines on channel 5, our NBC station! Finally, at age 13, I figured it out: as I walked to Wentworth avenue and looked north, I saw a 400' tower with red flashing lights. On channel 6, I'd hear Gospel music and wondered why. A radio Shack guy figured it out for me. I slapped on a 30 dB FM trap to filter out that 50 kw 92.3 FM blowtorch and was blown away that there was actually a channel 6 in Milwaukee that I could actually get! :D Not to mention, 5 was almost perfect after that.

Fast forward to today. I'm 2 miles northwest of a 20 kw, 7 miles southeast of a 4 kw, and I can see that tower from here, and 10 miles from two 50 kw. And a channel 13 to get. The CM 7777 preamp knocks them down 20 dB, but I gave the FM trap from Radio Shack to a friend who lives down the street from a 5 kw FM that fixed his problems.

Also, if you don't have quad shielded RG-6 cable (compared to normal bi-shielded), it does help in these types of RF Hades scenarios.

Emm, I always run the FM traps IN at this point, and run a seperate antenna for FM just to be safe... I think I need to order some good, deep FM traps for my system, might just help, now is the time to see too, before the last of the analogs leave... My highest projected signal on FMfool is -12.2 which is INSANELY strong, so I can believe that it caused issues with WKBT VHF and not the UHF....

willscary

03-01-09, 04:13 PM

Good news from Fox 55 in Wausau!

http://www.myfoxwausau.com/myfox/pages/InsideFox/Detail?contentId=8352282&version=15&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=5.1.1

gjvrieze

03-01-09, 05:05 PM

Good news from Fox 55 in Wausau!

http://www.myfoxwausau.com/myfox/pages/InsideFox/Detail?contentId=8352282&version=15&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=5.1.1

God, it is cold and windy, best of luck to those guys up there!

willscary

03-01-09, 05:14 PM

gjvrieze

03-01-09, 05:16 PM

It sounds to me as if the equipment is all installed and they are actually testing it.

This would be outstanding. You are correct however...it is really cold and windy, and has been for the past 2 days. I feel for the guys 1,000' up.

Bill

Yes, both you and I have towers (and I assume) that we have both been up there at 50ft! Let alone 1,000ft! I was up mine a few weeks ago in -30 degree wind chill, I could only take 20minues up there and could not get down fast enough:)

willscary

03-01-09, 05:27 PM

I actually work in commercial construction. The highest I have ever been is about 350'. The wind is always blowing at that height...even on really nice calm days.

About 2 months ago, I frostbit my fingers working on my tower at home. It was about -15 and the wind chill was about -30, but I couldn't wait for 48 hours for it to warm up! I took my gloves off so I wouldn't drop anything. It only took a few minutes for the tower steel to freeze my skin pretty good.

I'm all healed up now, but even though I don't have scars from proir frostbite episodes, my fingers and toes still hurt like hell whenever they get cold.

I'm one of those goofs that lives but never learns!

Billl

willscary

03-01-09, 06:46 PM

RESCAN FOR FOX 55 in HD!!!!!!

sebenste

03-01-09, 06:52 PM

Emm, I always run the FM traps IN at this point, and run a seperate antenna for FM just to be safe... I think I need to order some good, deep FM traps for my system, might just help, now is the time to see too, before the last of the analogs leave... My highest projected signal on FMfool is -12.2 which is INSANELY strong, so I can believe that it caused issues with WKBT VHF and not the UHF....

Yessir. :) I had run them in as well, and needed an *extra* 30dB. I believe my situation was even worse than yours. :eek:

Still...as I can attest, and you strongly suspect and may be ultimately proven right, that ultimately it may not be you. Complaints are coming in from digital VHF's and their low power from all over the country.

Innova

03-01-09, 08:32 PM

Finally, Fox in HD! It works!

fishwrap

03-02-09, 03:36 PM

Anyone not getting Fox 55 out of Wausau this afternoon? Got it last night and cannot get it this afternoon. I am assuming they are still testing.

willscary

03-02-09, 06:05 PM

Yes,

Fox 55 was running at 3PM when I last looked at work. I can nto tell you if it works here at home because I currently do not have an antenna that will receive it.

Bill

jimboeau

03-02-09, 07:30 PM

Finally, Fox in HD! It works!

Well it looks like all the WI FOX stations are now HD. Oh Wait a minute still NO HD on WEUX Fox out of Eau Claire. Let's get ur done.

sammy4041

03-03-09, 05:58 AM

Yeah Jimboeau, I was looking at some of the older post and amazed on how long we have been waiting for this.

lovebohn

03-03-09, 11:21 AM

I had no problems watching 24 last night. The signal strength is about mid 50's, but i only had one little drop out. I still have the antenna pointing at 55 degrees so I can pull in WEAU. Life is good with FOX going HD for us in central WI, I can't wait for some sporting events on my 110" screen.

BTW why run an HD and SD feeds, just pump out the HD at 100%.

willscary

03-03-09, 06:31 PM

Channel 9-3 in Wausau is now THIS TV!!!!!!

This is an outstanding addition for those of us who are OTA only!

Website: http://www.this.tv/

Bill

willscary

03-03-09, 07:12 PM

roadfever2

03-04-09, 02:10 AM

That is awesome! This-TV on 9.3!
I've been having issues with WTPX and WFXS though. Either one or the other have been on since WFXS started broadcasting in digital the other day - but never both at the same time. I suspect that it might be an issue with using the same tower. The programming on WTPX and its subchannels can be a bit strange but I do enjoy some of the shows so I hope they work out the bugs soon.

grgeiger

03-04-09, 01:18 PM

Anybody know when WFXS on 9.3 shut down? My cable company has a black screen on WFXS. They were on for American Idol last night. Was the simulcast still going on in the evening?

I called the cable company the woman said "the technician didn't think we would lose WFXS". Ah.. usually when a station changes channels the tuner needs to be changed. Maybe they had something automated set up for the switch but the change didn't trip. I don't have This TV just a black screen.

roadfever2

03-04-09, 02:18 PM

WFXS stopped broadcasting on 9.3 yesterday - I believe around noon. BUT, they are back on 9.3 as of this morning due to a leak in the cooling system on their digital transmitter system (according to their website). What a rollercoaster ride! Murphey's Law I guess.

Trip in VA

03-04-09, 09:38 PM

Now...if only we could somehow pick up Me TV and Me Too TV as local subchannels. Perhaps the NBC Universal Sports subchannel could be added. The biggest bonus would be if we could somehow get a local Fox affiliate to pickup FSN North. I know there are cable agreements and such, but dang, that would be cool to have! I could watch all the Brewers games again!

Bill

Me TV and Me Too are not syndicated subchannels. They're basically locally-done RTN for Chicago and Milwaukee. You won't be seeing those anywhere else.

- Trip

DA1745

03-05-09, 01:21 AM

Well it looks like all the WI FOX stations are now HD. Oh Wait a minute still NO HD on WEUX Fox out of Eau Claire. Let's get ur done. Hi, I'm unclear on the situation. I am betting 48 via cable and I thought the picture WAS/IS HD @ 720P, am I wrong? I compared it to analog SD 48 (CH3) during "Lie To Me" and it's clearly better and I don't think it was just Digital SD but I don't have a method to verify this minute. I'll try & pull it in with a differnt OTA card that will give the resolution details.

I commented/asked about this before when you or someone else posted that 48 in EC wasn't in HD. My Windows Vista Media Center guide also indicates it as QAM HD. Can you help me out, is the OTA not coming in HD or am I completely missing something (frequently do).

adler187

03-05-09, 03:08 AM

Hi, I'm unclear on the situation. I am betting 48 via cable and I thought the picture WAS/IS HD @ 720P, am I wrong? I compared it to analog SD 48 (CH3) during "Lie To Me" and it's clearly better and I don't think it was just Digital SD but I don't have a method to verify this minute. I'll try & pull it in with a differnt OTA card that will give the resolution details.

I commented/asked about this before when you or someone else posted that 48 in EC wasn't in HD. My Windows Vista Media Center guide also indicates it as QAM HD. Can you help me out, is the OTA not coming in HD or am I completely missing something (frequently do).

I can't comment on WEUX-DT, but WLAX-DT runs HD on 25.1 and an SD simulcast on 25.2. What you are seeing on your cable is most likely their HD feed being run by fiber to the cable company and may not be what they are pushing out over the air. I believe WFXS has had HD for a while now, but didn't have the capabilities to broadcast it OTA until they flash-cut, however their fiber feed to the cable providers allowed them the cable providers to carry it in HD. I can't imagine the same is going on with WEUX-DT, but I may be wrong as I can only receive WLAX-DT.

jimboeau

03-05-09, 08:12 AM

gjvrieze

03-05-09, 11:04 AM

The FOX HD station in Eau Claire on cable is actually the WLAX signal from LaCrosse which does put out an HD signal. WEUX 48 does NOT do HD over the air.

Yes, I believe (looking back in time on this thread) that WLAX-HD is what has been carried on EC Charter cable for over a year.

jimboeau

03-05-09, 01:34 PM

The FOX HD station in Eau Claire on cable is actually the WLAX signal from LaCrosse which does put out an HD signal. WEUX 48 does NOT do HD over the air.

Below is the last we have heard on HD OTA in Eau Claire..... and this news came to us in September 08. It's been 6 months and nothing but crickets...

As mentioned in the quoted text above, we're still waiting for the arrival of the "HD" microwave and related gear, so the digital signal from the site will still be SD/480i for the time being...

You can wait a little bit and avoid a long-term contract commitment and view the OTA signal of WEUX-DT when we finally get the equipment...

I'm just sorry I can't give you a date as to when that's going to be...

Go ahead and enjoy...but remember...48.1 is SD/480i until we get the rest of the gear we need to get the real HD/780p signal up to Colfax from La Crosse.