The Official R5000-HD Technical Status Discussion [Text View]

R5000-HD

10-03-04, 05:03 PM

Originally posted by Joseph Clark
I have the R5000-HD mod on a Dish 6000. Since I have a fairly noisy PC in my bedroom, I'd like to be able to put the system in Hibernate or Standby mode. But, the system doesn't awaken to do the recording. Are we missing something?

No you are not. It is not designed to be able to wake the system from hibernation/stby. You have to leave your PC running as long as you have recordings queued.

Also, the remote control app keeps telling me IR codes need to be recorded, and the "Remote Address" is grayed out and stuck on "1." My 6000 is on "7." Does this matter? Should I change the remote to 1? The grayed out drop down box seems to indicate I should be able to change the address from within the app. Is this not implemented yet??

For Dish 6K boxes it uses the universal address, so the remote should work with your box no matter what you change its address to. In the event that the firmware in your 6000 box doesn't support the universal address, go into the R5000-HD preferences and select "BELL6000" as your STB type. Then you will see the address pull-down become active (BELL6000 boxes are pretty much identical to the DISH6K but for some reason doesn't support the univ. address). Note: make sure to keep your service as "Echostar" since it sets variables for properly remuxing their streams. The "STB Type" mainly controls how the R5000-HD interfaces with your STB and doesn't affect recrodings.

Another question. In the main R5000-HD window, under "IR Control," there are two radio buttons, "REC" and "STOP." The "Enable" button is grayed out and "Waiting for Code..." is in the box at the bottom. What is this section for? As I write, the VCR timer function that I set in the 6000 failed to trigger. Is this because I don't have the code set properly

Right. You have to "capture" the codes first. Then once you have the 2 samples (RECord & STOP) the enable checkbox will become active. To do this with the 6K, go into the menu and navigate to VCR setup. You have to enter a code first (use anything, like "100"). Then press the button to test it. Before you do, on the R5000-HD, set the radio button sample type for "REC" and press the capture button (labeled "REC"). You will see "Waiting for sample..." appear in the messsage box. Now let the STB initiate the VCR code test. It will first send a record code. Once that sample is captured (message box = "Sample Captured..."), activate the "STOP" radio button and press the capture button again and wait for the 6K to send a STOP code. The 6K gives you plenty of time. Now you will have the 2 samples captured. To test that you got them OK, enable the checkbox on the R5000-HD and initiate the test again on from the 6K. The R5000 should respond and start recording, then stop as commanded by the STB (the recrording will error out because there is no signal, but just delete any files created).

I appreciate the simplicity of this device and the interface, but there needs to be thorough documentation with it. There are those of us out here who would be happy to assist with this.

You are correct and we apologize for not having it ready by the time you (and others) received your units. It was targeted to be on-line at the begining of the week and should be available this coming week of 10/3.

-R

mdv

10-06-04, 03:37 PM

R5000,

Why oh why did you use the crappy mini USB connector on the Dish 6000 upgrade? The pins on this connector are so small they are almost guaranteed to break with repeated insertions (like the small firewire connectors do). The hole you cut in the back of the 6000 could have easily accomodated a type B USB connector.

I haven't opened up the box to see if there is an obvious reason to use the mini connector over the type B one.

Mark

R5000-HD

10-07-04, 10:04 PM

Originally posted by mdv
R5000,

Why oh why did you use the crappy mini USB connector on the Dish 6000 upgrade? The pins on this connector are so small they are almost guaranteed to break with repeated insertions (like the small firewire connectors do). The hole you cut in the back of the 6000 could have easily accomodated a type B USB connector.

I haven't opened up the box to see if there is an obvious reason to use the mini connector over the type B one.

Mark

The connector is rated at 5000 insertions min. to hold its contact resistance spec. Maybe you've heard something about these we don't about? The reason for using a small connector is not evident when looking at just the Dish6K alone.

-R

R5000-HD

10-08-04, 10:36 AM

The user manual for the R5000-HD is currently availbale online at http://www.nextcomwireless.com/R5000/dvr_manual/dvr_manual.htm

-R

bicarus2004

10-11-04, 03:15 PM

After all the interest prior to this product becoming available, there appears to be very little feedback and discussion here either pro or con.

Is the product actually shipping?

If it is, how well does it work?

madpoet

10-11-04, 03:25 PM

Is there a recomendation for which DirecTV receiver to get these days? Is one of the preferrable over the others?

Hammer_Dropper

10-12-04, 12:12 AM

Originally posted by bicarus2004
After all the interest prior to this product becoming available, there appears to be very little feedback and discussion here either pro or con.

Is the product actually shipping?

If it is, how well does it work?

It is shipping and it works well with Dish 6000.
The only intermittent problem I have is apes ring buffer overflows, and this is mostly on Showtime-HD.
This problem is in work by Nextcom.
--
Dish 6000, Pentium-M 1.7 GHz, 512M, MyHD 120, WinXP SP2.

Hammer_Dropper

10-12-04, 12:25 AM

Originally posted by madpoet
Is there a recomendation for which DirecTV receiver to get these days? Is one of the preferrable over the others?
Probably answered in R5000-HD's 10-07-04 08:33 PM reply to PeterS in thread "Alert: New HD recording option information!".

ralphjb

10-12-04, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by bicarus2004
After all the interest prior to this product becoming available, there appears to be very little feedback and discussion here either pro or con.

Is the product actually shipping?

If it is, how well does it work?

It is shipping, I have received. I actually got my DTC-100 back a week ago, but due to business/personal stuff going on, I have not had the opportunity to install. May not get the chance until early next week, frankly.

I apologize for that. I feel some responsibility to others to get this think up and running and report on it - not to mention the fact that I want to start using it!:D

dcarl

10-12-04, 09:53 PM

Originally posted by bicarus2004
After all the interest prior to this product becoming available, there appears to be very little feedback and discussion here either pro or con.

Is the product actually shipping?

If it is, how well does it work?

After a few false starts, my DTC-100 mod is working nicely now.
I had issues mostly non-related to the unit or program. I had serious problems using Hipix, then my file playback was really buggy using MyHD, until I rolled back one of their software updates. Everything seems okay right now...

One thing I don't understand is why the IR capture warning prompt couldn't have been disabled if the user decides that it's not going to be needed. Few (online) users would ever use the STB initiated recordings once they see how perfectly the Zap2it method works, no?

bicarus2004

10-12-04, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by ralphjb
It is shipping, I have received. I actually got my DTC-100 back a week ago, but due to business/personal stuff going on, I have not had the opportunity to install. May not get the chance until early next week, frankly.

I apologize for that. I feel some responsibility to others to get this think up and running and report on it - not to mention the fact that I want to start using it!:D

Ralph

Still, after 552 Posts and 49215 Page Views in the "Note:Alert: New HD recording option information!" thread, it's hard to understand why there have only been 22 posts here and about half of those are from the company itelf and not from end users.

Is everyone else who owns one of these under an NDA or what?

R5000-HD

10-13-04, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by dcarl
One thing I don't understand is why the IR capture warning prompt couldn't have been disabled if the user decides that it's not going to be needed. Few (online) users would ever use the STB initiated recordings once they see how perfectly the Zap2it method works, no?

You are right. That warning nag has already been removed and you will see that in the new version which will be available in a day or so. Thanks for the FB.

-R

miimura

10-13-04, 05:35 PM

MarkV

10-13-04, 05:51 PM

I sent in an E8 that arrived on Tuesday. When I get it back (no idea how long it takes), I'll post an in-depth review. I was on the fence for quite some time due to the lack of reviews from existing users. Hopefully, it will be ~1K well spent.

Will be using MyHD (w/DVI daughtercard) on a variety of LCD displays (until I make a decision on a projector). Not using other software for software .ts playback, but that may change.

Mark

bicarus2004

10-13-04, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by miimura
I don't have one, but if everything just works, what is there to post about? ;)

- Mike

Mike

That's a very optimistic outlook.

pixelist

10-14-04, 04:23 AM

Originally posted by bicarus2004
Ralph

Still, after 552 Posts and 49215 Page Views in the "Note:Alert: New HD recording option information!" thread, it's hard to understand why there have only been 22 posts here and about half of those are from the company itelf and not from end users.

Is everyone else who owns one of these under an NDA or what?

Ok, I'll bite. This thing rocks! I have had mine for a month now and I love it!

A bit of history.. I have had a 169time DTC100 AVX-1 JVC30K for over a year and have built up a pretty large collection of DVHS tapes, but have always struggled with that system, and when I started archiving to hard disks instead of DVHS tapes had to find another solution. I was only able to get one out of about 10 recordings transferred to the PC (DVHStool) to play in other decoders. I am using Rokus to play back the .ts files from my video server. The Rokus flake out often on some of the 169time stuff.

The HD-5000 is a gift from above. The interface, while it lacks sparkle, is fairly simple and enables recording in one panel. The PVR is another application/panel and interfaces seamlessly with zap2it. I have two weeks of shows lined up to record. You just go the zap2it url and browse the schedule. Click on the "rec" button of the show you want and it messages the PVR to schedule it. Then you just forget about it... assuming you have enough disk space. ;) There is a 28 show limit to the PVR.. which is lame. I see no technical reason there should be a limit there. I'm sure it will get fixed soon. Also a warning in the interface if you run out of disk space while recording is needed.

Once the .ts file is recorded to disk I use HDTVtoMPEG2 trim it down and splice it into one minute chunks for playback on the Roku. These files are more reliable when played back on the Roku than the 169time versions. It might be nice if the HD-5000 would let you record in chunks, but then I always end up editing the file to get the start and end points correct so that doesn't really matter to me. In fact, it is better to have one file to load into HDTVtoMPEG2.

I use the HD-5000 on my Dell XPS 3.4G Laptop and it runs in the background. I pretty much forget about it while dabbling in Photoshop and assorted other "heavy" applications. Haven't noticed any performance problems with this setup. Occasionally, some kind of glitch causes the shows to be recorded in two files. It is nice that the HD-5000 corrects itself and continues to record to a new file.

It would be nice if the two applications could be rolled into one. Maybe a tab for the DVR and a tab for the PVR schedule. And they need better looking icons... If I were an UI designer I would design some new ones and send them off to nextcom. Hey.. wait! I am a UI designer.. dough! I'll get on that right away... ;)

This is almost a perfect solution. I only wish Roku would get their act together.. their interface gets my vote as "worlds worst digital media player". Their only saving grace is that they are cheap and somewhat open-source and third parties have produced some promising applications. One is almost better off to throw a MyHD in a cheap PC shell and use that. It just costs quite a bit more than a Roku.

The HD-5000 is well worth it and anyone who doesn't think so is welcome to buy my 169time setup that is gathering dust in a box in the garage. I'll let it go cheap. I feel guilty selling that thing to anyone knowing the HD-5000 is out there.

Keith

bicarus2004

10-14-04, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by pixelist
Ok, I'll bite. This thing rocks! I have had mine for a month now and I love it! Keith

Keith

Which step top box and satellite service do you have working with the R5000?

ralphjb

10-14-04, 11:02 AM

OK. Got my box wired in last night (DTC-100).

What program do people use to play files back? Can you play the .ts files directly?

I did use SageTV to play a couple of short recordings I made, but that really did not work (blocky video and no sound).

Thanks!

Ron Tobin

10-14-04, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by ralphjb
What program do people use to play files back? Can you play the .ts files directly?

I personally use MyHD, however you can use Zoom Player or Windows Media Player with no problem. If you try to use Windows Media Player, it does not recognize the ts file extension, but if you change the drop down to "all files", it will play just fine.

ralphjb

10-14-04, 01:19 PM

Thanks Ron. I will give Media Player a try tonight.

Curious if anyone is using SageTV now to watch recordings made with the R5000.

Also curious if anyone is using TheaterTek 2.0 for this purpose. Discussion in that thread seems to indicate it is possible. But I guess there are some issues.

R5000-HD

10-14-04, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by pixelist
Ok, I'll bite. This thing rocks! I have had mine for a month now and I love it!...

Keith

Keith,
Thanks, we appreciate that. You are right in that there is no reason why the number of PVR events cannot be increased. I believe the max. is currently at 32, which I think matches up with the number of rows in the window. At the time we never thought anyone would schedule that many events in advance! But then there was a time I never thought a 250G HD would end up being small...

The files almost always get broken up because of bad reception glitches or drop-outs. One thing that ver. 1.4 (soon to be released) addresses is to be more tolerant of these and reduce the likelyhood of re-starts. Right now the diskfull message only appears in the log file. I suppose a pop-up would be nice.

BTW, Keith is using a DTC100.

-R

bicarus2004

10-14-04, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by R5000-HD
Keith is using a DTC100.

-R

Does the Dish Network Dish 6000 modification work just as well as the DirecTV DTC100?

R5000-HD

10-14-04, 08:16 PM

Originally posted by bicarus2004
Does the Dish Network Dish 6000 modification work just as well as the DirecTV DTC100?

There was a bug creeping in with the 6K users causing occasional crashes. That has now been fixed and will be rolled into the ver. 1.4 release. Tests have shown that these were always associated with reception glitches and drop-outs. The remuxer in ver 1.4 has greatly improved error resiliance and a high threshold for re-starting. Hope this helps.

-R

ralphjb

10-14-04, 09:22 PM

Ok. Tried Window Media Player 9 and no luck, it would not play the file. I checked for updates, but apparently have the latest version. Any suggestions?

MarkV

10-14-04, 09:39 PM

You need a mpeg2 decoder. Search on something like stinky's mpeg2 or look at www.freecodecs.com

There are also a bunch of commercial options - TT2.0, Elecard, Zoomplayer.

I did notice that the elecard demo seems to install an mpeg2 decoder that WMP happily uses.

ctdish

10-15-04, 12:52 PM

ralphjb,
For software playback of HD video see the DVHS tools thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=209390&perpage=20&pagenumber=1
You need a fairly fast computer, ATI video cards with Sonic or Ravanescent codexs wil take some of the load off the CPU allowing smooth video. John

bicarus2004

10-15-04, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by R5000-HD
There was a bug creeping in with the 6K users causing occasional crashes. That has now been fixed and will be rolled into the ver. 1.4 release. Tests have shown that these were always associated with reception glitches and drop-outs. The remuxer in ver 1.4 has greatly improved error resiliance and a high threshold for re-starting. Hope this helps.

-R

Small reception glitches and drop-outs are a fact of life with all DBS satellite HD, so, capture software has to be made smart enough to work anyway.

The Dish 921, the HD-Tivo and from what I have read, the latest 169Time
software all work around those limitations and problems.

I guess I should wait to see several reports that the R5000 software has been improved to consistently record without crashing.

ralphjb

10-16-04, 05:39 PM

Thank you for the suggestions.

I ended up upgrading to TT 2.0, something I intended on doing anyways, and it worked. Picture is BEAUTIFUL. Looking forward to recording some movies and football games.

Couple of other questions. I gather from the scanning of the TT 2.0 thread, some are using TT to "timeshift" view HD recordings. Wondering if anyone here is doing that (have not had a chance to try myself yet).

The other thing is that R5000 said he intended an enhancement to the software which would allow a program like SageTV to view the R5000 as another Tuner (I think a DirectShow thing). Wondering how that is coming?

mdv

10-17-04, 11:29 AM

mdv

10-19-04, 02:52 PM

bump

jlinos

10-19-04, 06:08 PM

I recieved mine last nite , a 6000 dish stb so far i have to say its great
having used the old dish 5000 w/ modulator for recording I have to say this is clearly superior :) ( I hope with the update *hint*)
It was a pretty easy install and ready to go within a few minutes, only problem i had was it crashed during a rain during one of my recordings
but i see from other posters that seems to be a problem with the 6000
thats allready addressed in the upcoming version .
Time to go schedule some more recordings :)

MarkV

10-19-04, 06:12 PM

Just received a E8 (same as E86) based R5000-HD. Set it up and am dorking with it.

I noticed that HBOHD is reported to be broadcasting at 1280x1080i according to the MyHD when the ts is played back. Is that to be expected? I will test locals via the MyHD and via the R5000 and compare.

One other item - what's the expected percentage of <1ms packets? For about 30k packets, about 1k packets are at <1ms. ~93% are at >20ms. ~4% are at 10-20ms. Was running MyHD to playback the TS during this, so that may have an effect. What are other users seeing?

Looks like it was other apps causing the <1ms packets. Surprising as CPU load is pretty low.

Thanks,
Mark

BBuk

10-19-04, 06:44 PM

This has really caught my attention! I have a BEV 6000 and am very interested in getting this mod. Have any Canadians had this done? Are there any border or customs issues? How best to ship? Any suggestions based on experience would be appreciated. Thanks!

JackLT

10-19-04, 06:56 PM

Same question, is anyone in Canada able to offer the service,
as I understand Cnd Customs will not allow Sat Receivers in to out anymore.

R5000-HD

10-20-04, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by mdv
When can we expect ver 1.4? I'd like to get this fix.

Mark

Mark, et al,
It has been posted in the "downloads" area of the support page. www.r5000-hd.com (http://www.r5000-hd.com)

Thanks for your patience.

MarkV

10-20-04, 01:51 PM

The release notes suggest v1.4 is really a 6K only fix. Is there any other reason to upgrade?

The R5000-HD is really cool. Still messing with it and I'll post a review and my workflow methods when I get into it more.

Stupido question #1 : is the PVR application purely to manage the scheduling of programs?

Feature Request : It would be "nice" if the Rec and Stop button on the remote caused the R5000 DVR app to record and stop. So far, it appears that it only works if a recording is scheduled and the unit sends out the info. I imagine I can work around this with girder and that the feature might be unique to my situation, and thus, not overly useful to the rest of the world.

Is there a way to get zap2it to show PPV programming? I noticed both it and TitanTV were not listing most of the PPV schedules.

Thanks,
Mark

jlinos

10-20-04, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by R5000-HD
Mark, et al,
It has been posted in the "downloads" area of the support page. www.r5000-hd.com (http://www.r5000-hd.com)

Thanks for your patience.

Thanks I will install and report if i have same problems again .

R5000-HD

10-20-04, 06:20 PM

Originally posted by MarkV
The release notes suggest v1.4 is really a 6K only fix. Is there any other reason to upgrade?

It also removes the "nag" screen when there are no IR codes captured and a pop-up "Disk Full" notification added.

Even if you are a D* user it is a good idea to use the v1.4. Eventhough we haven't seen any corrupt data passed from D* yet, there is always the possibility, and this version offers increased tolerance.

The R5000-HD is really cool. Still messing with it and I'll post a review and my workflow methods when I get into it more.

Stupido question #1 : is the PVR application purely to manage the scheduling of programs??

Yes. Unless you need to change some settings in the recorder, you can pretty much work with the PVR exclusively since it will automatically launch the recorder when it is time to make a recording.

Feature Request : It would be "nice" if the Rec and Stop button on the remote caused the R5000 DVR app to record and stop. So far, it appears that it only works if a recording is scheduled and the unit sends out the info. I imagine I can work around this with girder and that the feature might be unique to my situation, and thus, not overly useful to the rest of the world.

Is there a way to get zap2it to show PPV programming? I noticed both it and TitanTV were not listing most of the PPV schedules.

Thanks,
Mark

Currently the only way the STB can control the recorder is via the VCR/timer control. Yours is an interesting idea, though.

AFAIK zap2it & Titan don't show PPV...Thanks for the comments.

-R

johnnynuke

10-21-04, 01:08 PM

BBuk,

This has really caught my attention! I have a BEV 6000 and am very interested in getting this mod. Have any Canadians had this done? Are there any border or customs issues? How best to ship? Any suggestions based on experience would be appreciated. Thanks!

I just received my modded BEV 6000 back yesterday. There were no border or customs issues whatsoever. Nextcom recommended I indicate "For Repair/Modification" Will be returned to me. Not selling, not a gift. I indicated satellite STB under list of contents. I double-boxed and sent down via UPS(all, of course, after formally ordering mod online.) Nextcom sent modded STB via Fedex and indicated "Computer/USB peripheral modification" as description of goods and a commodity value was given for custom tax purposes. GST & PST was applied to this commodity value as expected, and that's it. I'm not sure I'm allowed to indicate what this commodity value is, but I believe any labour value to cost of getting mod isn't included. I don't know how this works, but makes sense to me that only value of material should be taxed by customs and not labour cost to do mod.

BBuk, if you wish to know, pm me, I'll provide the commodity value I talked about above.

ralphjb

10-21-04, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by ralphjb
Thank you for the suggestions.

The other thing is that R5000 said he intended an enhancement to the software which would allow a program like SageTV to view the R5000 as another Tuner (I think a DirectShow thing). Wondering how that is coming?

I have posted this questions a couple of times, but have not seen a response. Any answer?
Thanks.

bicarus2004

10-21-04, 07:30 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by R5000-HD
There was a bug creeping in with the 6K users causing occasional crashes. That has now been fixed and will be rolled into the ver. 1.4 release. Tests have shown that these were always associated with reception glitches and drop-outs. The remuxer in ver 1.4 has greatly improved error resiliance and a high threshold for re-starting. Hope this helps.

-R
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Has the release of ver 1.4 stopped all the Dish 6000 crashes and re-starting with the R5000-HD?

MarkV

10-21-04, 09:07 PM

So, is it to be expected that HD coming out of the R5000-HD from DirecTV is at 1280x1088i?

I always assumed D* used 1920x1080i.

Is it specific to D* or to certain STBs?

Is D* broadcasting at 1280x1088i or is the box doing some sort of conversion?

Thanks,
Mark

Joseph Clark

10-23-04, 03:21 AM

I have a modified Dish 6000. I noticed questions about the lack of feedback on this unit on the Forum. My main reason for not posting more is that this device simply works. I've had a few questions, which have been responded to VERY quickly, resolving the problems. I've been busy recording and burning DVD's of lots of Discovery Channel material - Great Canadian Rivers, Insectia, Smart Travels. Have transferred episodes of Smallville to D-VHS. Recorded "My Fair Lady." This is the most promising unit for recording HD ever, and I can live with the minor problems, especially kniowing they are being addressed so quickly. The R5000 support staff has been excellent.

What bothers me about the unit? Not much. The interface is bland and unintuitive, but it's almost refreshing in its simplicity. Getting REC and STOP codes to capture was strangely difficult, but I've yet to use that function for anything important, since Zap2It works so well. (Follow the instructions explicitly, if you are having trouble.)

One question: why do some of my favorite programs have a band of light grey pixels at the bottom of the screen in the recordings? They seem not to be there in the broadcast. If they are inserted for some technical reason, can they be be made black? I have to adjust my projector when I view these shows to move them out of the visible area of the frame. If they were black, I wouldn't have to bother. I'm sure on most TV's the overscan makes these pixels invisible, but it is a pain.

I almost bought a Dish 921 PVR when it was first released. Because of the R5000, I've very glad I didn't.

This device works. It's terrific. I have a second Dish 6000 and I'm thinking of having it modified, too.

Joe Clark

MarkV

10-23-04, 09:11 AM

Are you using a software decoder? MyHD plays back without the line. All my software decoders have a line except VLC.

Mark

jlinos

10-23-04, 09:29 AM

Originally posted by bicarus2004
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by R5000-HD
There was a bug creeping in with the 6K users causing occasional crashes. That has now been fixed and will be rolled into the ver. 1.4 release. Tests have shown that these were always associated with reception glitches and drop-outs. The remuxer in ver 1.4 has greatly improved error resiliance and a high threshold for re-starting. Hope this helps.

-R
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Has the release of ver 1.4 stopped all the Dish 6000 crashes and re-starting with the R5000-HD?

I havent had a crash since the new version and only one restart in over a dozen recordings since then.
Error log attributes it to the remuxer so i imagine it still needs some more
tweaking but it has been improved greatly .

HDHTPC

10-23-04, 12:09 PM

MarkV: D* re-encodes some of the 1080i chans down to 1280x1080i. This is their version of the datastream for those chans - it doesn't matter what decoder you are using. E* doesn't change the resolution when they re-encode.

Joseph Clark: the gray line at the bottom is a problem for some chans when using some decoders on displays with no overscan.

The basic issue is that 1080 is not an even multiple of 16. Many decoders work in 16x16 blocks, so their buffer is 1920x1088. If the source is 1920x1080 then the decoder has to stuff some dummy data in the last 8 lines. Some of them put gray blocks... Some repeat line 1080 8 times. If you use a hardware decoder to a real HDTV then those "slop lines" at the bottom are usually not visible - they are part of the "overscan" off the bottom of the screen. PC software decoders usually show the whole image with no overscan so you get to see the "dirty laundry". A few HDTV chans actually broadcast in 1920x1088 rather than 1920x1080 so (in that case) you get whatever bottom 8 lines that the broadcaster decided to send you.

IMHO, a good decoder should crop the output to 1920x1080 and never show the bottom 8 lines even if the source is tagged as 1920x1088.

Quantum

10-24-04, 01:03 PM

Will this mod work with MythTV?

It appears that it's just shipping the transport stream to the PC, so this should be directly usable by Myth, at least for a Dish ts. Or is there other jiggering that must be done?

What would need to be added to Myth?

R5000-HD

10-24-04, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by Quantum
Will this mod work with MythTV?

It appears that it's just shipping the transport stream to the PC, so this should be directly usable by Myth, at least for a Dish ts. Or is there other jiggering that must be done?

What would need to be added to Myth?

If MythTV is DirectShow compatible then eventually when the R5000-HD's DirectShow interface is ready it will work with Media Centers like Myth, Sage, etc.

HDHTPC: Nice answers. Thanks.

Joseph Clark: Appreciate the feedback. Thanks.

-R

Quantum

10-24-04, 02:49 PM

But DirectShow is Winduhs. MythTV (the best PC-PVR in the world) is Linux-only.

Is this just the raw transport stream coming in (at least for Dish)? Does the mod show as a USB video device of some sort? Details, please.

The open-source community is interested.

jamesmil

10-24-04, 05:39 PM

I'm up and running with my R5000-HD modded Bell ExpressVu 6000 receiver. I agree with what others here have said: it just works. I've spent more time trying to get smooth playback of HDTV content on my PC than I have getting the mod to capture content.

Comments/Questions:

[list=1]
I'm a little confused about what resolution the mod is capturing at. My STB is set to output at 720P, and as discussed elsewhere ExpressVu (and DirecTV for that matter) typically recompresses the HD content before broadcasting it. Is the R5000 mod capturing at the output resolution (1280x720), or the actual resolution of the channel as transmitted by Bell? Is there any difference in a capture of CBS (1080i) or FOX (720p), as an example? How does the "bit rate" setting in the capture application (which I have set to 19MB/s constant) affect this?

If the mod does have access to the native stream, then it would be nice to be able to see what the actual resolution, bitrate of a given channel/recording is.

With the 1.3 version of ths software, I've had a couple instances when when selecting recordings from the web-based schedule don't actually trigger the recording to start (eventually the PVR window still shows the item, but at the bottom says "Items Queued: 0". Just did a fresh OS install and put the 1.4 version of the app/drivers on, so will keep testing this.

I've recently purchases TheaterTek 2.0 with hopes of using it to play back TS files on my PC. One thing TT2 claims support for is being able to playback a a TS file while its being written (ie, PVR-like functionality). While it is playing back pre-saved TS files great, there appears to be an issue with running both TheaterTek and the R5000 recoding application at the same time (one or the other will crash). This is on a fresh clean-install of XP-MCE2005. I'll keep experimenting, but if anyone else can confirm/deny that they have been able to run both apps and view a TS file in TT2 while its being recorded by R5000, that would be great.

UPDATE: I've been having more success with this one, so perhaps it was an isolated incident. Playing back a live recording is very cool.

I sound like a broken record on this one, but the penultimate experience for this mod would be if you made Windows Media Center Edition "tv" drivers (aka BDA drivers) available for the R5000 so it could be used as a natvie tuner in Media Center 2005. I really love the expereince in MCE2005, and this would create the greatest PVR ever.
[/list=1]

Anyhow I'm glad I took the plunge and got the mod. I'm already getting value out of it, and as I learn more it will only get better.

HDHTPC

10-24-04, 08:33 PM

Both the 169time and the R5000 mod capture the raw datastream as broadcast. The settings on your receiver won't change the recording.

You could use a tool like Elecard MPEG stream analyzer to look at the resolution of a paritcular recording.

I think BEV does native resolution for the network chans, and 720p for all their PPVs.

ralphjb

10-24-04, 09:18 PM

I've recently purchases TheaterTek 2.0 with hopes of using it to play back TS files on my PC. One thing TT2 claims support for is being able to playback a a TS file while its being written (ie, PVR-like functionality). While it is playing back pre-saved TS files great, there appears to be an issue with running both TheaterTek and the R5000 recoding application at the same time (one or the other will crash). This is on a fresh clean-install of XP-MCE2005. I'll keep experimenting, but if anyone else can confirm/deny that they have been able to run both apps and view a TS file in TT2 while its being recorded by R5000, that would be great.

I have done this. I must admit for only a brief period of time, but without either program crashing.

Joseph Clark

10-25-04, 01:08 AM

Originally posted by MarkV
Are you using a software decoder? MyHD plays back without the line. All my software decoders have a line except VLC.

Mark

Interesting. I am using MyHD for playback. I do have the line, though. After your question, I tried VLC for my playback. I had to do an install of VLC to try your suggestion, and sure enough it didn't have the line either. However, I had problems with MyHD afterwards and ended up doing a reinstall before I could get it working again. Got MyHD working and the R5000 needed for me to reassociate the .pvr extension.

Things seems pretty good now, except that I can't get TitanTV to work as the MyHD scheduler yet. I'm actually running three systems - two MyHD systems and a HiPix system, so I'm still trying to figure out what software combination might be causing me not to be able to use TitalTV on the new MyHD system.

I'm going to try a fresh install of the R5000 and the new MyHD on a system I'm sticking in the basement, alongside the original MyHD system. With the cost of computer systems being what it is today, the best approach for me has been not to load up the first MyHD system with much of anything except for video related software. I put it in the basement with 4 250 gig hard drives of storage and plenty of cooling. I leave it on all the time and have been able to forget about it. Zero noise problems and everything on the gigabit network.

Thanks all for the feedback on the cause of the band at the bottom of the screen. As I said before, I can live with any of these little problems. I love this unit.

Now if the Cardinals can only get on track in the World Series, all will be right with the world.

Joe Clark

MarkV

10-25-04, 10:36 AM

I would be interested in hearing if you're able to get TitanTV to work with the R5000 instead of Zap2it. I don't have a terrible preference, but zap2it's guide seems slower for me.

What would be really nice is access to DirecTV's information in an integrated guide as the lack of PPVHD on Zap2it and TitanTV is sort of a downer.

Thanks,
Mark

eddie102026

10-25-04, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by JackLT
Same question, is anyone in Canada able to offer the service,
as I understand Cnd Customs will not allow Sat Receivers in to out anymore.

I just received my modded BEV 6000 back today. There were no border or customs issues whatsoever.I send it using Canada post (ExpressPost)
cost me $38 including insurance.on Itemized list I put receiver model 6000
(for repair) value $250.sending it and getting it back toke one week only.
you should have no problem whatsoever.

Eddie102026

R5000-HD

10-25-04, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by Quantum
But DirectShow is Winduhs. MythTV (the best PC-PVR in the world) is Linux-only.

Is this just the raw transport stream coming in (at least for Dish)? Does the mod show as a USB video device of some sort? Details, please.

The open-source community is interested.

Sorry, I had looked into MythTV a while ago and forgot that it is Linux only...the thing that stuck with me was the incredible job they did with the user interfacing and graphics.

No, it is not just a raw transport stream coming out, so even if you did get Linux to somehow recognize the USB device you would still need to make sense of the data and remux into a transport stream (the hardest part!) and thats what the R5000-HD app handles.

So, one way to make it work with MythTV/Linux is to run the R5000-HD on a dedicated XP/2K box and use the proposed DirectShow capabilities to then output the transport stream to firewire. Linux running Myth can then connect via the firewire port. Then, you would just need to replicate the STB remote control using an IR blaster or something similar. Pretty kludgy, but the only other way would be to port the R5000 driver and remuxer out to Linux...

-R

R5000-HD

10-25-04, 03:29 PM

Unfortunately TitanTV and zap2it both use the same file-type extension to load program info (.tvpi). So the R5000-HD and MyHD will fight over the association. The easy way to change back and forth without doing any re-installs, etc, is to use Windows Explorer: Tools->Folder Options and then pick the "File types" tab. Scroll down the list and highlight the ".TVPI" type and click the "Change" button. XP keeps a history of the apps that were associated with that file type and you can toggle btween the "R5000-HD PVR" and "MIT TitanTV Helper App".

The R5000 PVR will notifiy you next time you start it that it lost one or more of its associations. You can ignore this and cancel the re-association if you want to go on using TitanTV/MyHD.

The TiTanTV files are encoded or encrypted and at this point we do not intend to support their use. One thing I like about zap2it is that they put the "REC" buttons on the main grid and you don't have to click on "details" to see it like in Titan.

-R

MarkV

10-25-04, 03:44 PM

Good point on Titan vs Zap2it. I started using MyHD a week before the R5000-HD arrived, so you know how it is with familiarity. Not much to either app anyway.

I was going to capture OTA HD through the MyHD, but with the R5000 setup, it seems like unnecessary complexity. The MyHD card does support two antenna (the E86 only does 1), which may be nice if I have issues with picking up the network OTAs.

Some software decoders seem to have issues with D* streams (not OTA streams, they seem fine). May just be issues to particular streams. I haven't done enough recording to test. Still, MyHD seems to be fine with it. I believe VLC was fine too.

Mark

HookedOnTV

10-25-04, 10:34 PM

For you BEV users, are you getting good recordings of the networks? No audio dropouts?

Joseph Clark

10-26-04, 12:51 AM

Originally posted by HDHTPC
MarkV: D* re-encodes some of the 1080i chans down to 1280x1080i. This is their version of the datastream for those chans - it doesn't matter what decoder you are using. E* doesn't change the resolution when they re-encode.

Joseph Clark: the gray line at the bottom is a problem for some chans when using some decoders on displays with no overscan.

The basic issue is that 1080 is not an even multiple of 16. Many decoders work in 16x16 blocks, so their buffer is 1920x1088. If the source is 1920x1080 then the decoder has to stuff some dummy data in the last 8 lines. Some of them put gray blocks... Some repeat line 1080 8 times. If you use a hardware decoder to a real HDTV then those "slop lines" at the bottom are usually not visible - they are part of the "overscan" off the bottom of the screen. PC software decoders usually show the whole image with no overscan so you get to see the "dirty laundry". A few HDTV chans actually broadcast in 1920x1088 rather than 1920x1080 so (in that case) you get whatever bottom 8 lines that the broadcaster decided to send you.

IMHO, a good decoder should crop the output to 1920x1080 and never show the bottom 8 lines even if the source is tagged as 1920x1088.

The problem with the grey bar at the bottom of the MyHD screen is gone. I installed the latest version of the software and the new drivers. No more bar.

Thanks for the info. The latest software resolved the problem.

Joe Clark

Joseph Clark

10-26-04, 01:02 AM

Originally posted by R5000-HD
Unfortunately TitanTV and zap2it both use the same file-type extension to load program info (.tvpi). So the R5000-HD and MyHD will fight over the association. The easy way to change back and forth without doing any re-installs, etc, is to use Windows Explorer: Tools->Folder Options and then pick the "File types" tab. Scroll down the list and highlight the ".TVPI" type and click the "Change" button. XP keeps a history of the apps that were associated with that file type and you can toggle btween the "R5000-HD PVR" and "MIT TitanTV Helper App".

The R5000 PVR will notifiy you next time you start it that it lost one or more of its associations. You can ignore this and cancel the re-association if you want to go on using TitanTV/MyHD.

The TiTanTV files are encoded or encrypted and at this point we do not intend to support their use. One thing I like about zap2it is that they put the "REC" buttons on the main grid and you don't have to click on "details" to see it like in Titan.

-R

I can live with that. The thing I like most about TitanTV is the ability to schedule easily any regular weekly or M-F programs. I like the ability to schedule and record programming from OTA sources with MyHD and satellite sources from Dish at the same time.

The R5000 is my favorite new tool. It's a great product!

Joe Clark

Quantum

10-27-04, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by R5000-HD
No, it is not just a raw transport stream coming out, so even if you did get Linux to somehow recognize the USB device you would still need to make sense of the data and remux into a transport stream (the hardest part!) and thats what the R5000-HD app handles.
OK, so it must be simpler than I thought. I guess the datastream includes also the encrypted and buffered video, in addition to the unencrypted ts. Set the bus address to the same as audio & video decoders. This would mean alot of software pre-processing. I wonder how much CPU impact this has on various machines? How does it present on the USB bus (in hardware detail)? I'm imagining maybe a bridge, USB interface, and serial EEP. And I'm wondering about the new STBs, which hide the unencrypted ts. Surely they will always need SDRAM... and so sift that. But that's much harder than this. Would need a uproc, like 169.

BTW, I don't understand why ppl are archiving the whole ts, rather than just the video & audio packets of interest? Does the software allow you to save just the video/audio packets, not the whole ts? Why save the program guide, foreign language packets, housekeeping, etc? Being an old sat underground type, maybe this suggestion would help some.

Congrats on a great product, R.

Originally posted by R5000-HD
So, one way to make it work with MythTV/Linux is to run the R5000-HD on a dedicated XP/2K box and use the proposed DirectShow capabilities to then output the transport stream to firewire. Linux running Myth can then connect via the firewire port. Then, you would just need to replicate the STB remote control using an IR blaster or something similar. Pretty kludgy, but the only other way would be to port the R5000 driver and remuxer out to Linux...
Agh, there's no way we're going to buy Windows for this.

But thanks for the suggestion.

flabingo

10-29-04, 11:11 PM

I am inclined to purchase a unit and want to understand how you archive your recordings. What size of a hard drive do you recommend and what speed do you suggest for the computer. It seems that the service and response of the company is good.

stgdz

10-30-04, 12:01 AM

R5000-HD

10-30-04, 12:53 AM

Joseph Clark

10-30-04, 01:55 AM

Originally posted by flabingo
I am inclined to purchase a unit and want to understand how you archive your recordings. What size of a hard drive do you recommend and what speed do you suggest for the computer. It seems that the service and response of the company is good.

Another option for archiving is DVD. A lot of the shows that I really enjoy are the education, travel and nature programs - Insectia, Great Canadian Rivers, Weird Homes and Wheels, Smart Travels, Beautiful Landscapes of Japan. These and a lot of others are half hour shows and easily fit onto a standard 4.7 gig DVD. Even the hour shows will fit on a dual layer disc (I recorded the pilot for Smallville from HDNet on a dual layer disc). The dual layer discs are rare now but inevitably they will become commonplace and more affordable. From a speedy DVD drive, they play back flawlessly. I've had my R5000 for only a couple of weeks, but I've already collected a few dozen such shows on DVD.

And the company is very responsive to e-mails for questions I've had. With the cost of computers what it is today, you can put together a system fast enough to do the recordings and load it up with plenty of hard drive space very affordably.

The R5000 is simple and it simply works.

MarkV

10-30-04, 10:30 AM

The hardest thing I've found about the R5000-HD is finding the HD content that is worth recording.

OTA I do about 8 hours/week for timeshift playback.

Finding decent D* HD programming that I want to watch is a bit more difficult. For reference, I subscribe to HBO,SHO, and the HD package. I've been busy, so I imagine when I have time to pay attention to programming guides, it should be a bit more productive.

MyHD + R5000 is really nice. Start up the R5000 record and use the MyHD to play/pause/rewind. Could be done with TT2.0 too I believe.

Mark

flabingo

10-31-04, 10:06 PM

I have not seen the back of a modified unit but I assume that a usb2 port is connected to my computer for recording. Now I have been told that to communicate with my Roku I would use an ethernet port which the Roku has.. If I wanted to connect my computer direct to my TV, what connection cable do I use?

HookedOnTV

11-01-04, 09:28 AM

Originally posted by flabingo
If I wanted to connect my computer direct to my TV, what connection cable do I use?

Depends on the tv and type of connections you have available. A common scenario is to use a VGA-to-Component transcoder ($100+). This type of venture can be rather lengthy and frustrating unless you are connecting to a plasma or lcd display which are geared for a pc connection. The HTPC forum will be your best source of information for doing this. I might suggest trying the Roku for playback first. Just put them on a network together (via a switch).

jlinos

11-01-04, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by flabingo
I have not seen the back of a modified unit but I assume that a usb2 port is connected to my computer for recording. Now I have been told that to communicate with my Roku I would use an ethernet port which the Roku has.. If I wanted to connect my computer direct to my TV, what connection cable do I use?

You can connect your pc with an ethernet cable to your roku and watch the files you record with the r5000 through its component cable output , another option would be the one hookedon Tv mentioned or a myhd card with the dvi option if your tv supports that .
Again all depends on what inputs your tv supports.

flabingo

11-01-04, 05:04 PM

I just ordered a plexiglas box to house a computer with 4 hard drives 250 or 300 Maxtor in my living room. I have the following choices. I can use the Roku, and connect it through my Zektor 4-1 switch. I am also willing to buy the MYHD card, and tomorrow I am going to a meeting of the local computer club where a representative from Microsoft with speak about their media center. I have limited computer knowledge but I want to try to do it right the first time. I also have a jvc30000, a avxi box from 169. What I would like is your suggestions regarding the design of the box and your thoughts regarding using myhd or Roku and anticipate the Windows media player down the road. At the present time I do not have a DVI port on my TV Thanks for your help David

jamesmil

11-01-04, 11:20 PM

Has anyone else noticed this problem?

Occassionally if I leave the R5000 app running, it will "loose contact" with the receiver and tell me to check to make sure the drivers are all the way installed. Sometimes, just pressing OK on that dialog a few times is enough, other times the dialog won't go away and I need to go pull and reinsert the USB cable from the reciever.

At this point its just a bit inconvient (so far no recording has been interrupted), but I'm curious if others have seen this and if it sounds like a R5000 problem, or a problem with my PC/Windows config.

BBuk

11-04-04, 12:17 PM

I recently had my BEV 6000 modded with the R5000. Being from Canada, I was a bit leary of sending the STB across the border but it actually was trouble free. Following the instructions from the R5000-HD guys and insuring it adequately for peace of mind, it arrived back in just over a week with the only added cost being just PST and GST on the value of the conversion (a fraction of the total cost). Once it was set up with about 15 ft of USB2 cable strung to my 3G HTPC, it took a couple of tries to get it to record - I didn't tell the software that the remote id on the 6000 was 2. Once it was able to talk to the 6000 properly, all was fine. I am now setting up timed recordings with Zap2it...no more missed Enterprize in HD!... I have found that checking the guide and info on the 6000 during a recording impairs communications and will influence the recording quality - sometimes causing the software to abort the recording. I have also just installed another 200G HD just for recordings.

I have been using VLC to view the ts files but find that by changing the extension to mpg instead of ts, VLC has the proper capability of jumping ahead 10 sec or 1 or 5 minutes - much like a PVR. My main problem is viewing live ts files with the ability to pause, rewind, and fastforward. VLC doesn't like to do this very much. What is everyone else using for this functionality? Is TheaterTek the software answer with MYHD being a hardware answer (don't really need another DVI out as my existing ATI 9600 does fine)? Do these handle playing of a live ts file properly for a real PVR feel?

All in all money well spent...I don't have to be a slave to the programming gods...I now have control!

BB

MarkV

11-04-04, 12:53 PM

I use MyHD for timeshifting. TheaterTek2.0 is reported to work for timeshifting. I have seen issues with a PPVHD recording (D* R5000 unit) that caused WMP 10 to be unhappy (crash). It was using the FWMM 4.0 decoder. VLC played it back fine. MyHD played it back fine.

R5000-HD

11-04-04, 02:11 PM

Originally posted by BBuk
... I have found that checking the guide and info on the 6000 during a recording impairs communications and will influence the recording quality - sometimes causing the software to abort the recording. I have also just installed another 200G HD just for recordings.

All in all money well spent...I don't have to be a slave to the programming gods...I now have control!

BB

Thanks for the feedback. You definitely can't change to the guide or any of the system setup while recording since it inturrupts the program output. But checking "Info" should be OK since it just adds an overlay to the STB's decoder output.

splino

11-06-04, 11:59 AM

Has anyone had success using the Roku HD 1000 over a wired network for playback of the r5000hd .ts files? I haven't been able to playback any .ts files through the Roku using a wired network. I always get a message stating that an error occurred while trying to playback .... file. Or nothing happens when I try to playback the file using the StreamPlayer program. I can play music and photo files through the network just fine. Any help?

Thanks

HookedOnTV

11-06-04, 03:50 PM

Originally posted by splino
Has anyone had success using the Roku HD 1000 over a wired network for playback of the r5000hd .ts files? I haven't been able to playback any .ts files through the Roku using a wired network. I always get a message stating that an error occurred while trying to playback .... file. Or nothing happens when I try to playback the file using the StreamPlayer program. I can play music and photo files through the network just fine. Any help?

Thanks

What size is the file your trying to play back? If it's over 2GB you'll need to split it.

splino

11-06-04, 04:58 PM

Originally posted by HookedOnTV
What size is the file your trying to play back? If it's over 2GB you'll need to split it.

I'm talking about files that are not larger than 1GB.

jlinos

11-07-04, 08:46 AM

Originally posted by splino
Has anyone had success using the Roku HD 1000 over a wired network for playback of the r5000hd .ts files? I haven't been able to playback any .ts files through the Roku using a wired network. I always get a message stating that an error occurred while trying to playback .... file. Or nothing happens when I try to playback the file using the StreamPlayer program. I can play music and photo files through the network just fine. Any help?

Thanks

I have watched several files generated with the r5000 with my roku havent had a single issue yet.

BBuk

11-07-04, 12:09 PM

I haven't been able to get successful recordings of any SD channels on Bell. Every time I try to tune into one, I get 2 seconds of recordings with the R5000 software restarting to the max of 5 attempts and stopping. When I check the files (files size of either 376 or 752 kb) there is indeed 1 second of recorded program.

I also can't record 3 HD channels either PBSHE, NBCHE, or GLBHE either. Same characteristics but file size is 1880 kb. All other HD channels are fine.

Anyone else with these issues? Any possible fixes?

Thanks

Joseph Clark

11-08-04, 12:49 AM

I've tried several times to record the Dish Network demo loop, but the R5000 attempts the recording several times and fails. Anyone have an idea why? (I have no need for the recording, but it tells me something may be wrong somewhere.)

Thanks,

Joe Clark

BBuk

11-08-04, 06:11 PM

MarkV

Do you use MYHD 100 or 120 for playback? Not having any OTA HD to view up here, do you think the 100 would be good enough for ts file timeshifting or do I need the 120?

On another note, there apparently will be a new version of the capturing program soon that hopefully takes care of my previous SD and some HD channel problems.

Thanks

bicarus2004

11-08-04, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by BBuk
On another note, there apparently will be a new version of the capturing program soon that hopefully takes care of my previous SD and some HD channel problems.

What kind of SD and HD recording problems have you had with the R5000-HD modification?

Which set top box did you have modified?

mdv

11-08-04, 11:06 PM

I have been unable to capture rec and stop commands from my modded Dish 6000. I can control the 6000 from the R5000HD application (power cycle, rec, play stop) but when I try to capture the rec/stop commands from the 6000 VCR setup, the R5000HD app just says "waiting for capture".

Is the capture functionality tested when the mod is installed?

I have tried selecting the Bel6000 unit and specifying the remote address 1 which is what my 6000 is set to. This didn't make any difference. Does the remote ID have anything to do with the capture process?

Any ideas what I should try? This is an Asus P4C800E Deluxe motherboard with 3.0 GHz Northwood processor.

Also, when recording the buffer stats indicate about 40% < 1 mS and 60% > 20 mS.

[edit] I should add that I'm running XP Pro, SP2 and the 1.4 R5000HD driver/app.

[edit2] For some reason the USB port I was using stopped working. I switched to the other port on the same connector and now the IR capture is working. Hope it stays that way.

Mark

HookedOnTV

11-09-04, 09:13 PM

I just got my 6000 back. Can't get the app to capture the REC STOP commands either. No big deal as I probably wouldn't be using that feature. Couple quick little recordings look great on the Roku. Got a bunch of recordings set up for the next couple days.

How's work on the cband HDD200 coming? If the 6000 does get obsoleted by MPEG4 could the board be moved over?

Andrew Lam

11-09-04, 11:55 PM

I am having a lot of trouble using my Bev6000 for recording via a P4 2.4G computer. Could using a gyration cordless mouse and keyboard be causing a problem (USB port)? My TS files don't have any information in them and basically when I try to record ,all I get is a gizillon <1 ms buffer errors? Could someone point me in the right direction in what I am doing wrong?

mkerdman

11-10-04, 12:31 AM

See this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=467834

jlinos

11-10-04, 09:47 AM

Question for R5000-HD with the latest dish news can the mods we have gotten for the 6000 models be moved to a direct tv reciever?

HookedOnTV

11-10-04, 09:55 PM

Anybody have their settings reset after a reboot of the PC? I lost the recording directory, provider, stb model and all of my scheduled recordings.

stgdz

11-11-04, 09:40 AM

Originally posted by jlinos
Question for R5000-HD with the latest dish news can the mods we have gotten for the 6000 models be moved to a direct tv reciever? I believe it can be transfered from one receiver to another. I asked the RS guys this awhile back, if the receiver itself died could we move the RS5000hd to another receiver? There response was yes but it would cost about a 100 bucks to move it over.

ralphjb

11-11-04, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by HookedOnTV
Anybody have their settings reset after a reboot of the PC? I lost the recording directory, provider, stb model and all of my scheduled recordings.

I have not lost the provider, stb model lost, but yes, the recording directory and the scheduled recordings are.

With the scheduled recordings, you can save as a file and reopen when you reboot, that saves lot's of effort.

On the directory issue, this is a pain. My defaults to the C:/ root directory and I have to make sure I reset. I am hoping this is addressed in a later version.

jlinos

11-11-04, 11:28 AM

xsrsmithx

11-11-04, 11:47 AM

Anybody have their settings reset after a reboot of the PC? I lost the recording directory, provider, stb model and all of my scheduled recordings.

I was having a similar problem until I contacted R5000 support. It seems that closing the program with the "X" does not save any information. You have to go to "File" and "Exit" from there to save any settings (recording directory, provider, stb model). After closing this way all your settings are correct next time you start the program. I was having to reset it every time I used it until this was brought to my attention.

Steve

HookedOnTV

11-11-04, 12:37 PM

Got a similar response. Having to save the list of scheduled recordings doesn't seem to intuitive to me. Easy enough though, I'm just glad I don't have to set up all my recordings after each reboot.

The settings (STB, provider) seem to be sticking now, was just that first reboot.

ralphjb

11-11-04, 05:10 PM

Thanks for that advice guys. Will try tonight.

Andrew Lam

11-12-04, 02:35 AM

Originally posted by Hammer_Dropper
Problem with VIA C3 was not solved.
It was a VIA C3 1.2 GHz, 64 MB L2, in a VIA MII12000, 512 MB PC2100 RAM.
It's now a Intel Pentium M, 1.7 GHz, 1 MB L2, 512 MB PC2100 RAM and works well.
Problem was probably due to low L2 cache size (a Pentium 3 is 256 KB or 512 KB) but
may be due to BIOS, chip set hardware/software, or IRQ overloading.
Noticed high page fault rate.

I am having similar problems with my Bev6000. I am still having a lot of problems with the buffering. I have improved it so I can get captures, I did not get them before. But on a 30 sec rec I get two frames of HDTV. Could this be my bios and chipset??? This is the motherboard I am using:

http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=648_Max-L&class=mb

It's a P4 2.4. with a SiS 648 Chipset (648 Max - MS-6585 ATX MainBoard). All my USB ports are 2.0 and have a physical memory of 767MB with 544264 KB available. Total page file - 1108 MB with 880 MB available. Running a 30% memory load.

Anyone running anything similar?

ralphjb

11-12-04, 09:34 AM

Originally posted by xsrsmithx
I was having a similar problem until I contacted R5000 support. It seems that closing the program with the "X" does not save any information. You have to go to "File" and "Exit" from there to save any settings (recording directory, provider, stb model). After closing this way all your settings are correct next time you start the program. I was having to reset it every time I used it until this was brought to my attention.

Steve

That did it.
Thanks.

pixelist

11-12-04, 11:19 PM

I just picked up a new network dvd player - the AVeLLink AVLP2/DVDLA from IODATA (http://www.iodata.com). Thought I would try out Roku's competitors as they arrive. It plays R5000 HD .ts files unmodified fairly well. It is cheaper than the Roku and it includes a progressive scan DVD player. Here is a quick list of pros and cons for the unit. I'll report back more as I get a chance to play with it.

It requires a server running on a PC or Mac and lists files in your "MyPhotos", "MyMusic", and "MyVideos" folders. You can set it to synchronize with iTunes. It has no DVI output but has a Japanese d4 connector and a converter cable to component plugs. The interface is pretty bad but some things it does as well as or better than the Roku. I can't seem to get it to play multiple .ts files (0001.ts, 0002.ts, etc) but that doesn't mean it can't.

I just wanted to let you guys know that there is another option out there for playing the HD5000 recordings!

Keith

jlinos

11-13-04, 07:08 PM

I run into an interesting problem last nite I was recording a PPV movie and
all i got an incomplete recording and then my next scheduled recording did not happen as well the app wasnt capable of switching from the ppv channel back to regular programming i am assuming that some pop up thing came up and the app did not know how to deal with it .
Do we have to do manual recordings of ppv events or is this something that is being looked at and will be taken care in an updated pvr version?

HookedOnTV

11-13-04, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by pixelist
I just picked up a new network dvd player - the AVeLLink AVLP2/DVDLA from IODATA (http://www.iodata.com). Thought I would try out Roku's competitors as they arrive. It plays R5000 HD .ts files unmodified fairly well. It is cheaper than the Roku and it includes a progressive scan DVD player. Here is a quick list of pros and cons for the unit. I'll report back more as I get a chance to play with it.

It requires a server running on a PC or Mac and lists files in your "MyPhotos", "MyMusic", and "MyVideos" folders. You can set it to synchronize with iTunes. It has no DVI output but has a Japanese d4 connector and a converter cable to component plugs. The interface is pretty bad but some things it does as well as or better than the Roku. I can't seem to get it to play multiple .ts files (0001.ts, 0002.ts, etc) but that doesn't mean it can't.

I just wanted to let you guys know that there is another option out there for playing the HD5000 recordings!

Keith

Good to hear. I have been following that thread evaluating it as a possible replacement for my Roku's if the next software release doesn't provide reasonable improvements. Sounds like the UI is about par with most of the media players available but if the functionality is there you can get over the UI. I assume you could actually just have single large TS files to get around the sequential playback limitation? How's the seeking in TS files?

Andrew Lam

11-14-04, 02:59 AM

I seem to have better luck recording using the DTC-100 setting rather than the BEv6000 setting which is my stb. I still cannot get a recording to last longer than 30 sec. I get a half decent recording using the dtc-100 settting with a few drop outs. has anyone else tried this?? how many glitches does one gets per half hour?

pixelist

11-15-04, 03:35 PM

I have played a little more with the AVeLLink and been through one round of tech-support email with them. The player is not supposed to be able to play MPEG2TS files, and indeed they don't show up in the file browser if you are browsing through folders. BUT.. if you create a shortcut/link to a .ts file it does show up and is playable. Doing that to multiple files does enable you to play them sequentially, but their is a flash and text prompt indicating the new file is being played in the transition.

They say they will support MPEG2TS files in a firmware update in December. Hopefully they will fix this and plenty other bugs I am finding as I explore.

I would not recommend this unit as a replacement for the Roku yet. They need one or two more rounds of firmware updating and user-testing before this is consumer friendly.

Oh well.. back to wishing.

Keith

Andrew Lam

11-16-04, 12:30 AM

Originally posted by MichaelZ
Andrew make sure you have a USB 2.0 cable. I had problems like you and it was due to a 1.0 cable (I had a couple of these 1.0 cables and they all exhibited the same behavior, worked fine with my camera but not the R5000). After installing the new cable, make sure to reinstall the software again.

Yup it was the cable. I did not supect the cable as it was supplied by the R5000 guys. I can't beliwve I spent 24 hours mucking around reconfiguring my computer. Thanks for the help mike.

flabingo

11-16-04, 08:38 PM

The moment of truth has arrived. I have both a Roku unit and a MYHD card. I am told that both will work, but in the case of the MYHD I have to buy either a cable(15pin VGA to Component) or a transducer card. The extra cost is not a problem. Which system will be the least complex and simplest to operate? I am willing to limit my design of the computer to timeshifting, with the idea that archiving will come later.

Ron Tobin

11-16-04, 08:43 PM

Flabingo:

I have both, but to play R5000 recordings on the Roku, they must be short transport streams. Don't really remember how large they can be, but a large file simply will not work with Roku's Streamplayer.

I personally prefer the MyHD for playing back the R5000 recordings.

flabingo

11-16-04, 09:23 PM

Thanks, I have a zektor switch and connect to a Toshiba rear projection with only component connections. Which connection do you use from the MYHD to your tv? It is nice to know that someone lives in my neighborhood in the eastern part of this country. I live in Port St Lucie David

Ron Tobin

11-16-04, 09:37 PM

Originally posted by flabingo
Which connection do you use from the MYHD to your tv?

I use component out, running it "pass through" from the MyHD card. Actually the component runs into my B&K Ref 50 and out to my plasma display.

Good luck.

R5000-HD

11-16-04, 10:15 PM

Version 1.5 is available for download from the support area (http://www.nextcomwireless.com/r5000/support.htm). It primarilly addresses the problems with BEV and also brings back SD recording capability for E*. These changes do not affect D* users.

In addition, the IR capture has been eliminated and replaced by stored codes. If you want to use the STB timer to control recordings, just select one of the 2 preset codes and set the STB's VCR code to match.

The capability to manage multiple devices shows up in this version. Up to 4 units (receivers) can be plugged into a single PC and the app can select between them. This feature is in beta and does not yet have the ability to store and switch between multiple profiles (individual settings).

It is recommended that all users update to this version. It is critical for Bell users.

No updates to the PVR.
No changes to the driver.

-R

wcohoe

11-16-04, 11:41 PM

Hi,

I previously used the E*5000 modulator recording by the HiPix. It worked well, and most HBO/Showtime movies saved by HiPix were "compressable", usually about 1.3:1. I save recordings to DDS3 tape, and the compression ratio is important to me to keep from having to use a DDS4 tape (much more expensive).

I now have the New R5000HD system, and the files it makes are NOT really compressable. I read somewhere that we cannot use NullPacket Stripper (to do anything other than splitting the large file) to strip unneeded things out or the HiPix wouldn't play the file.

I'm interested in getting advice on what I can do to the .ts file(s) to allow them to be compressed a bit when I archive them yet still allow them to play on the HiPix.

By the way, I love the R5000HD, although it would have been nice to spend a month or two without knowing the Charlie Ergen MPEG4 sword of Damocles was hanging over my $1k investment. :)

R5000-HD

11-17-04, 10:32 AM

There has been a number of comments recently over Charlie's (E*) announcemet to eventually switch over to MPEG4 compression. We believe this is a long way off for a number of reasons:

1. When has dish EVER delivered on time? If Charlie says a year, it's probably two. Look how long the 5000 mod lasted before they finally turn it off (2/14/04)... and how long we waited for the 921
2. all of the current HD boxes (6000,811, 921) don't support MPEG-4 and cannot be upgraded.
3. No one has a HD mpeg-4 satellite box. Not even voom. The current voom box uses a Broadcomm HD 7xxx chip which does not support MPEG-4.
4. AFAIK the only HD mpeg-4 chip is the Sigma Designs 86xx chip which is targeted towards the DVD market (Bravo D3, Kiss DP-600).
5. Network quality HD MPEG-4 encoders are going to be extremely expensive. If a broadcast quality Mpeg-2 HD encoder costs $30-50K, MPEG4 HD encoders are probably $50-70K.

Changing a network takes alot of time. The bigger the changes, the longer it takes. For example, the conversion from QPSK to 8PSK, only changed the receiver in the 6000 and the modulator in the network uplink hub. All the other infrastructure remained the same. How long did that take?

For HD mpeg-4, at a minimum, the follwing items would need to change:

* replace all 6000, 811, 921 boxes as they cannot be upgraded.
* purchase HD MPEG-2 -> HD MPEG-4 transcoders. The content providers have no incentive to support MPEG-4.
* replace/upgrade statistical multiplexers to support HD mpeg4
* replace/upgrade HD mpeg-2 Carosell (PPV and other loops) to support HD mpeg4
* upgrade Conditional accesses system to encrypt HD mpeg4 streams.

It's going to take a long time to get all this done. And charlie has never been on time...

There's plenty of life left in the HD mods...

-R

wcohoe

11-17-04, 01:54 PM

There's plenty of life left in the HD mods...

Yes, I agree. I didn't mean to touch a nerve with my sword of Damocles comment. It's just that everyone longs for a little finality in the world of HDTV, at least as far as "a few years" goes. I'd still get the mod done, for sure. By the way, I was very impressed with the speed of the R500HD mod turnaround, and how the system works so well. Now if I can just get to the bottom of the .ts compression issue...

Wayne

HookedOnTV

11-18-04, 09:34 AM

Didn't record...

I grabbed the latest software yesterday and followed its' instructions (remove and plug the usb cable, check the about after the firmware upgrade) and all looked good. I had a recording scheduled for early this morning and it didn't work. The PVR app shows the status of the event as dispatched and the DVR app shows the path and name of the file in the save as box as it should had it recorded but there is no file. Not even a 0k file, nothing. There are no related entries in the log file.

How can I figure out what happened? I don't think I am going to be able to find another showing of what I tried to record.

wcohoe

11-18-04, 09:42 AM

How can I figure out what happened?

I followed the exact same steps as you, and all went well with an overnight recording I scheduled. One thing different; I did a reboot of my computer (for another reason), so maybe that played in. I advise that you reboot, and then do a test PVR recording before you lose anything else you can't reschedule.

R5000-HD

11-18-04, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by HookedOnTV
Didn't record...

I grabbed the latest software yesterday and followed its' instructions (remove and plug the usb cable, check the about after the firmware upgrade) and all looked good. I had a recording scheduled for early this morning and it didn't work. The PVR app shows the status of the event as dispatched and the DVR app shows the path and name of the file in the save as box as it should had it recorded but there is no file. Not even a 0k file, nothing. There are no related entries in the log file.

How can I figure out what happened? I don't think I am going to be able to find another showing of what I tried to record.

Travis, et al.
Please download the fixed version, 1.5a. It should address this issue. We found that it can sometimes fail to start the recording even though the event fired off successfully and the DVR started. You gave a great clue when you siad that the file save as box was updated. Basically it stopped because of a failure to talk to the STB. It doesn't affect recording though. If this failure ever occurs again there will be a log message. Thanks.

-R

HookedOnTV

11-18-04, 03:33 PM

1.5a doesn't work. When try to launch the DVR app I get an hour glass for a few seconds then nothing. About 5 seconds later I get two "HD Digital Video Recorder has encountered a problem and needs to close". Never lands in the system tray.

HookedOnTV

11-19-04, 05:32 PM

After booting all pieces a couple times, unplugging and replugging cables, letting it sit fo a while and forcing a few records I am now back to perfect operation running the latest software. Who knows... now if I can just find the couple episodes I missed...

wcohoe

11-22-04, 10:49 PM

I'm bumping this, hoping to find someone with some insight into how these output files can have so many null packets in them, yet can not be compressed.

I'll grant that many people don't care, but if you store movies on hard drive, and use the WinXP option to compress a hard drive, you could get 25% more movies on a drive if the files would compress properly.

Thanks,
Wayne

R5000-HD

11-23-04, 02:42 AM

Originally posted by wcohoe
I'm bumping this, hoping to find someone with some insight into how these output files can have so many null packets in them, yet can not be compressed.

I'll grant that many people don't care, but if you store movies on hard drive, and use the WinXP option to compress a hard drive, you could get 25% more movies on a drive if the files would compress properly.

Thanks,
Wayne

Wayne,
Some TS files have very little (5%) null content. Use TSReaderLite to determine exactly what percentage of the file is NULL. Files recoded form D* HBOHD might have as much as 40%. So the compressibility of files varies based on the encoder/source.

I just ran a test using winZip 8.0 on 40days_clip.ts (from B*)

TSReaderLite: 41.75% null packets
Winzip 43% compression.

I even remuxed the stream with 0x00 vs. 0xff in the null packet and I got the same result:
Winzip 43% compression.

So Winzip doesn't seem to care if the streams are padded with 0xff or 0x00.

as to the compressibility of E*5000 recordings vs the R5000, the R5000-HD should be the same. Initially, we even used the E* NUL table (extracted from a E*5000 recording) for padding, the only change we made was correcting the pid number (0x1fef to 0x1fff). Both systems NULL pad with 0xff.

TSreader will tell you how compressible the stream is.

-R

wcohoe

11-23-04, 02:49 AM

Originally posted by R5000-HD
Wayne,
Some TS files have very little (5%) null content. Use TSReaderLite to determine exactly what percentage of the file is NULL. Files recoded form D* HBOHD might have as much as 40%. So the compressibility of files varies based on the encoder/source.

I just ran a test using winZip 8.0 on 40days_clip.ts (from B*)

TSReaderLite: 41.75% null packets
Winzip 43% compression.

I even remuxed the stream with 0x00 vs. 0xff in the null packet and I got the same result:
Winzip 43% compression.

So Winzip doesn't seem to care if the streams are padded with 0xff or 0x00.

-R

Hmmm. I will run those tests on one of my E* ts files and see what happens. Thanks for the reply.

Wayne

HDTVFanAtic

11-24-04, 03:31 AM

I am spending Thanksgiving week with a family relative that has the R5000HD. It's given me a chance to kick the tires without actual purchase.

There are several major issues that I would like comment on. He is on the E* system with all the latest software from your company.

1) Despite all the initial claims of error free recording, the unit errors out and chokes on about 1 in every 8 captures. Of course, it always seems to choke when its a showing of something that cannot be replaced easily - such as Hamlet the other day on SHO or The Amityville Horror. It seems this happens whether you record constant or nullstripping the excess. MPEG2Repair seems to show that the more and more errors occur as time goes forward. What is being done to fix this?

2) The unit seems to get "stuck" on PPV for lack of a better term. If you cap a PPV channel, then the channel appears to blank itself out when the movie ends - and then asks you to buy the next movie once it starts - wanting a yes or no answer. When the R5000 tries to change channels at the next cap time, its stuck on the PPV wanting a yes or no so you miss any and all future captures.

3) If you set up a PPV event, the unit seems to start up to a minute before the event - yet the channel is not open - so it appears the unit errors out for lack of a stream and shuts down.

4) Thus, it appears all PPV has to be done manually - and be quick on the draw as they only open up the channel at :00:00 and quickly start the movie.

5) The PVR does not load a default capture schedule. Thus if you leave for the day and the power glitches for a second thus reseting your computer - the computer comes back up ready to capture - but without a default capture list loaded.

6) Zap2it for some reason times out every 10 or so minutes. Thus when you try to go to another webpage, it asks for a name and password - taking you to the options screen before you can then get to listings.

I have tried to adjust the computer giving zap2it a trusted site url designation and essentially have it opened up on the computer - yet this continues. Considering Auction Software has a place for your name and password that instantly transmits it to eBay when it places a bid, couldn't this be built into the R5000 system so it would always insert it and take you to the listings without the intermediate hassle every few minutes?

7) Several times the capture doesnt start - the app says waiting on drive - and nothing happens. As this is a 3.04 P4 with no other apps running - dedicated to capturing from the R5000HD, this sound very strange. Especially as it ruins your chance at the capture.

I could see someone living with problems 1-6 above. What I cannot see them living with is #7 or #8....the worse problem.

#8 The worse problem - and this is REALLY BAD is now that the R5000 system is in place, the brand new 6000 (this was sent by E* as a warranty replacement several weeks before the mod) seems to loose audio sync the longer it goes.

Within a day or so. there is a lag of audio and picture of several seconds. This lag includes the cap - as well as the on screen output. The only way to clear it is to unplug the STB and plug it back in.

It might just be coincidence, but my relative said they didnt notice this until last weekend when the new software upgrade came out. I don't see how it could be causing the lag in the STB output to the TV as the software is on the CPU - but something clearly is messed up.

It also appears that the new software is causing alot more errors than the older versions - as reported by MPEG2Repair and MPRobe.

What would be causing this as it has made most caps unusable - atleast the ones that actually don't error out and restart the file.

I was very interested in this unit but after test driving for a while, I have major concerns.

#8 is an absolute deal breaker for me.

What is being done to fix these problems?

ralphjb

11-24-04, 09:43 AM

5) The PVR does not load a default capture schedule. Thus if you leave for the day and the power glitches for a second thus reseting your computer - the computer comes back up ready to capture - but without a default capture list loaded.

This is something I would like to see addressed in an upcoming version of this software - unless of course we are going to get the DirectShow mod that will allow interface with SageTV:D

HookedOnTV

11-24-04, 11:58 AM

I've got the E* setup and except for a day or two when I experienced some very strange behavior it has worked wonderfully. I've probably recorded around 200GB of programming and it all plays back wonderfully on my Roku's. The only glitches I see are the tiny ones that you see when watching live off the stb.

Ron Tobin

11-24-04, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by HookedOnTV
.......... it all plays back wonderfully on my Roku's.

How large are the ts files that you push through the Roku. I use MyHD and push the entire ts file, but also have the Roku, but don't use it for playback of R5000HD captures. I recall, back when I used the Roku when I first got it, that the file sizes couldn't be too large.

wcohoe

11-24-04, 12:55 PM

I had a problem with errors in the stream, and new (better) USB cables fixed it completely, so I second the suggestion made by MichaelZ. I actually had to replace the USB cable that came with the mod, and use a better extension.

As to sync issues, I have Dish6000 mod also; no audio syncing problems here, except the occasional SHO-HD issue, which definitely comes from the source, not the box.

I also use UPS power on all systems. It is a small investment to make. Not only do you not have power flicker reboot issues, you get great spike protection etc.

Wayne

R5000-HD

11-24-04, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by HDTVFanAtic
I am spending Thanksgiving week with a family relative that has the R5000HD. It's given me a chance to kick the tires without actual purchase.

There are several major issues that I would like comment on. He is on the E* system with all the latest software from your company.

1) Despite all the initial claims of error free recording, the unit errors out and chokes on about 1 in every 8 captures. Of course, it always seems to choke when its a showing of something that cannot be replaced easily - such as Hamlet the other day on SHO or The Amityville Horror. It seems this happens whether you record constant or nullstripping the excess. MPEG2Repair seems to show that the more and more errors occur as time goes forward. What is being done to fix this?

Wow, what a laundry list! I think you are hanging on to some kind of misplaced theory that we somehow add some sort of cumulative errors to both the recorded stream and into the STB as well.

What I advise you to do is run simultaneous analog VHS recordings along with your captures and compare each glitch point to see if it was in the original stream. Also, if you have the luxury of doing so, make the analog recording from an unmodofied box so that you can also rule out that the R5000-HD is somehow "feeding" these errors back into the data bus.

We do this 'round the clock and we have found that there are numerous errors that are "in the stream", e.g. they are not even due to local reception drop-outs & glitches (as verified through simultaneous captures done on setups in different parts of the country). Either E* has some uplink problems or less likely their multiplexers are occasionaly hicupping.

Analysis with MPEG2Repair is not really appropriate since it looks for errors in the actual MPEG data rather than in the stream structure which is what re-multiplxing is about.

2) The unit seems to get "stuck" on PPV for lack of a better term. If you cap a PPV channel, then the channel appears to blank itself out when the movie ends - and then asks you to buy the next movie once it starts - wanting a yes or no answer. When the R5000 tries to change channels at the next cap time, its stuck on the PPV wanting a yes or no so you miss any and all future captures.?

You probably can't schedule PPV events this way. They may have to be recorded manually since there is no way for the R5000 to get feedback from the screen and answer the dialog box.

3) If you set up a PPV event, the unit seems to start up to a minute before the event - yet the channel is not open - so it appears the unit errors out for lack of a stream and shuts down?

4) Thus, it appears all PPV has to be done manually - and be quick on the draw as they only open up the channel at :00:00 and quickly start the movie.

A provision can possibly be made for starting PPV events...

5) The PVR does not load a default capture schedule. Thus if you leave for the day and the power glitches for a second thus reseting your computer - the computer comes back up ready to capture - but without a default capture list loaded..

What is a "defualt capture list?" You have to save your list to a specific file name and then what you can do is put that name is the command line for the PVR and place that link in the startup folder. That way when the computer re-boots it will automatically run the PVR and load that session. But you do have to save it first (File->Save or Save As).

6) Zap2it for some reason times out every 10 or so minutes. Thus when you try to go to another webpage, it asks for a name and password - taking you to the options screen before you can then get to listings.

I have tried to adjust the computer giving zap2it a trusted site url designation and essentially have it opened up on the computer - yet this continues. Considering Auction Software has a place for your name and password that instantly transmits it to eBay when it places a bid, couldn't this be built into the R5000 system so it would always insert it and take you to the listings without the intermediate hassle every few minutes?

See reply by MichaelZ.

7) Several times the capture doesnt start - the app says waiting on drive - and nothing happens. As this is a 3.04 P4 with no other apps running - dedicated to capturing from the R5000HD, this sound very strange. Especially as it ruins your chance at the capture.

You would have to supply us with more specifics so we can work with you to try to see why this is happening with your setup...

I could see someone living with problems 1-6 above. What I cannot see them living with is #7 or #8....the worse problem.

#8 The worse problem - and this is REALLY BAD is now that the R5000 system is in place, the brand new 6000 (this was sent by E* as a warranty replacement several weeks before the mod) seems to loose audio sync the longer it goes.

Within a day or so. there is a lag of audio and picture of several seconds. This lag includes the cap - as well as the on screen output. The only way to clear it is to unplug the STB and plug it back in.

It might just be coincidence, but my relative said they didnt notice this until last weekend when the new software upgrade came out. I don't see how it could be causing the lag in the STB output to the TV as the software is on the CPU - but something clearly is messed up.

We have seen this happen quite a bit in our tests and it has nothing to do with the R5000-HD or any of the software upgrades. Using our "monitoring" process as described under #1, this is always attributed to a bad glitch in the stream that causes the STB decoder to be thrown off sync. It is not cummulative as you state. Watching the analog VHS, this is a typical scenario: everything is fine, then there is a pretty bad glitch, usually with a long video freeze. After that the audio can be BADLY out-of sync (a few seconds or more) and the video is "jerky". Watching the R5000-HD capture, before and after that glitch point, the sync is fine. So, I don't know how it could be that we feed these errors into the STB but somehow not into the recorded stream???

It also appears that the new software is causing alot more errors than the older versions - as reported by MPEG2Repair and MPRobe.

What would be causing this as it has made most caps unusable - atleast the ones that actually don't error out and restart the file.

I was very interested in this unit but after test driving for a while, I have major concerns.

#8 is an absolute deal breaker for me.

As mentioned previously, these tools are not really appropriate for analyzing the quality of the R5000-HD remultiplexing. They will report (and properly so) any errors caused from reception glitches and drop-outs. These are beyond our control and are passed on as is into the final stream.

Sorry to loose you as a customer.

What is being done to fix these problems?

As soon as testing is completed we will be introducing a version that will hopefully never "error out" and re-start on bad stream errors. Our user base has indicated a preference for a continuous file containing whatever bad glitching exists rather than multiple parts. This "error resilience" has already been improved in the current version. Thank you.

-R

flabingo

11-24-04, 02:30 PM

Does Windows Media Center OS combined with the fast processor that they recommend affect the playback of HD? Will the Roku, MYHD Card, and other software become obsolete?

HookedOnTV

11-24-04, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by Ron Tobin
How large are the ts files that you push through the Roku. I use MyHD and push the entire ts file, but also have the Roku, but don't use it for playback of R5000HD captures. I recall, back when I used the Roku when I first got it, that the file sizes couldn't be too large.

I run the resulting file through HDTVtoMPEG2 cutting the beginning and end off to get only the movie and split in to 1GB chunks.

Ron Tobin

11-24-04, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by HookedOnTV
I run the resulting file through HDTVtoMPEG2 cutting the beginning and end off to get only the movie and split in to 1GB chunks.

Thanks. I assume you're using Roku's Streamplayer. I'll have to give it a try sometime.

stjr

11-24-04, 04:22 PM

HookedOnTV,

Which version of HDTVtoMPEG2 are you using to edit R5000 files? I am using the 1.09 beta, since there were bugs introduced to the original 1.10 beta, and I am not sure if or when the bugs were ironed out.

Ron Tobin

11-24-04, 04:23 PM

Steve:

I'm using 1.11 beta exclusively, and it works just fine for me.

stjr

11-24-04, 04:32 PM

Ron,

What I am primarily concerned about is being able to cleanly split or combine TS files from an original recording. 1.09 can do this for me. If you say that 1.11 works for that purpose, I will cautiously give it a try. Thanks.

Ron Tobin

11-24-04, 04:45 PM

Steve:

If 1.09 is doing what you want it to then,...... well you know the expression, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Sounds like you would gain nothing by moving up to 1.11 beta. I had been using 1.10, had issues, but they went away when I upgraded to 1.11. Don't recall how 1.09 performed for me. Perhaps I may have even skipped it.

stjr

11-24-04, 05:28 PM

Ron,

I presume that 1.11 has improved usability features over 1.09 that might warrant giving it a try. Thanks.

Ron Tobin

11-24-04, 07:21 PM

Steve:

There's a few enhancements, particularly, it allows selection of PIDs, and in the developer's notes, it says it strips null packets. I record R5000 captures compressed, so they are already stripped.

stjr

11-24-04, 07:31 PM

Ron,

I don't want my R5000 recordings stripped. I am not confident that I could restore the stripped null packets in the event that I use a decoder that requires a constant bit stream.

Ron Tobin

11-24-04, 07:42 PM

Steve:

I just emailed you the release notes.

mkerdman

11-25-04, 12:26 AM

Originally posted by MichaelZ
I've never had Zap2It ask for a password, except for the first time I used it. Sounds like a cookie issue to me.

Michael,

Precisely how do you accomplish this?

I am registered with zap2it.com also and I while do not have a prohibition to their cookie that I am aware of, it still kicks me out every 7-10 minutes anyway.

Do you know how your cookie or security settings are established to automatically login?

Are you using RoboForm or another USER NAME/PASSWORD manager auto-fill program?

dcarl

11-25-04, 06:35 AM

I'm also being driven crazy by Zap2it's overly strict time-out.
It's like an Evelyn Wood speed-reading exercise to scan the
schedule and choose a recording before it kicks me out.

With heavy traffic in the evening, I can't get to the
interactive schedule at all. :mad:

Zap2it's great otherwise. :)

It seems they have two different schedule pages we can view.
One is interactive (with the "record" button) and the other isn't.

I can peruse the latter all day long without ever having to re-login.

mkerdman

11-25-04, 11:49 PM

Originally posted by dcarl
I'm also being driven crazy by Zap2it's overly strict time-out.
It's like an Evelyn Wood speed-reading exercise to scan the
schedule and choose a recording before it kicks me out.

With heavy traffic in the evening, I can't get to the
interactive schedule at all. :mad:

Zap2it's great otherwise. :)

It seems they have two different schedule pages we can view.
One is interactive (with the "record" button) and the other isn't.

I can peruse the latter all day long without ever having to re-login.

Try using RoboForm and it's AutoFill feature- for the most part, it seems to do the trick.

Evelyn Wood speed-reading, boy that brings back memories.

HookedOnTV

11-26-04, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by Ron Tobin
Thanks. I assume you're using Roku's Streamplayer. I'll have to give it a try sometime.

Actually I use the player I wrote, TStream (which you can grab a copy of from my website). It's not perfect but does have a few more abilities like skip forward/back.

I use HDTVtoMPEG2 v 1.10.5 and it works perfectly. Some of the older versions have problems with 720p material.

HDTVFanAtic

11-28-04, 03:40 AM

Forgive me for not cutting and pasting, but its just too late to do so and respond to that many points.

As for the zap2it website, besides making sure there are no limitations on the site that might force the continued login (which others have stated they have as well) I have added the zap2it address to the trusted sites section of IE and allowed cookies from everywhere in an attempt to make it work properly. No go. We are not talking about autocomplete and remembering passwords. .All these efforts are for naught - clearly from the post above there are 2 groups - one that nothing works to keep you logged in - the other group works fine.

If you accept cookies and have it listed as a trusted site, there isnt much more one can humanly do to keep the info available within the confines of IE.

As stated, there is plenty of software made for sites such as ebay that you enter your name and password into the program and you get directly sent to the appropiate page when needed without the additional 10 steps in between. The R5000 should have this - no ifs ands or buts.

Every few minutes if you are in the have not group, you must 1) wait for the logon page to reappear instead of where you thought you were going 2) begin to re-enter your name and with autocomplete make sure that goes into place - thus adding your password. 3) Then you must click on ok to get back to the 4) page for personal setup which has to load so you can click 5) to see the TV Grid.

That is a nightmare - especially when Zap2it is slower than mudd in primetime as someone stated above and I highly agree with.

There is also another issue in the PVR section which if you manually edit a program (say to move the start time and end time up 2-3 minutes as I would always do on any caps), you will find that all the sudden you find multiple instances of that capture in the PVR. If you click on those multiple instances to edit them, you will also find they aren't what they are labelled but are other items you had in place that are now mislabeled on the front interface.

The only work around is to save to a DEFAULT.PVR file (and btw, thats what it should load upon startup) and then reload it. The problem with this is if you are recording, sometimes reloading this file will stop and start your recording.

Even if you don't think a DEFAULT.PVR should load on startup, atleast give the user that option. Many do.

The MPEG errors in the capped streams have grown a 100 fold with the latest release of software. You stated the newer release would record more errors instead of blowing up the capture. Perhaps it has a little more error induciton as well???

You can dismiss the program documenting the error (Mpeg2Repair) where the repair log file has gone from an average 1kb for a capture to 500kb of errors since the new software upgrade - or even mprobe. But the errors are clearly there and multiplied at a high rate.

I have made some initial contact with some users of the other system to capture the same movies at the same time and run the same program on each capture. From the intial indications that these people have given me, the errors are nowhere near what they are with the R5000 with the latest software release - thus I don't buy that this is a Dish induced error. If this was the case, it should happen on both systems. Not being an Electronics Engineer, I can only assume you both get your mpeg stream at the same point in the STB. If one has 100x errors than the other at this point, then it's hard to blame the supplier.

As for the comment about someone recording 200GB off E* with the R5000HD and not cap blow up - or maybe just one - as the average movie runs 13-16 Gig at 19.2, I am not sure you have given your unit enough use to really see the restarts

I have run through close to a terrabyte of captures this week alone - and as I stated, its usually 1 out of 10 movies having a restart. Simple math would tell you that at your 200 GB, you might have only seen this once in your capping.

Don't get me wrong. I think the R5000 is a wonderful device in many ways. However, all the inital posts starting last June about error free capping out of the box is not exactly the case. Maybe the comments were made in light of the 169time issues - where it appears that many have the same results - some have no issues - others have massive issues. I just wasn't expecting the number of problems I have witnessed given the massive build up by people on AVS to this system.

HookedOnTV

11-28-04, 12:03 PM

How's the Directshow source filter coming? It should allow the community to address some of the issues mentioned above.

ps - I have found that with almost absolute certainty you can cause a new file to be created during recording by doing anything that accesses the hard drive like deleting a file.

HDTVFanAtic

11-28-04, 12:38 PM

I should not that the computer being used for this has a 2.4G Intel Processor and 512 Megs of Ram with Windows XP SP2.

The machine has no other use, thus, it should not be conflicting programs.

According to the R5000 specs, that machine should have plenty of headroom.

BTW, in a perfect world, when you click on zap2it record button and the capture is set, the program should grab the run time from IMDB and compare, noting the IMDB time and the Channel Supplier's time alloted. You could then adjust manually. Thus you clearly would not loose the beginning or end of a movie.

It also would be very nice to have a user defined time option (say an adjustable 1 to 5 minutes) that IF THERE WAS NO CONFLICTING PROGRAM, the unit would start 1-5 min early and run 1-5 min late. It could adjust accordingly if you specified 5 minutes and supposedly ended at :30 and the next started at :35. From what I have seen in my captures for years, the end time is usually fudged more when needed than the start time (which usually always happens with 90 seconds of the correct time). A simple check of the IMDB database under Runtime should also give a clear indication to the program how tight the sequencing is going to be.

i realize there is a 60 second feature already, but the above would give more control and is very easy to code.

Both of these are very easy to do with software code - for a person who writes code - of which i am not one. However the former would be much harder to do than the later. But still very doable.

Regardless, all this means nothing if the other issues are not corrected.

mkerdman

11-28-04, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by MichaelZ
The Zap2it cookie on my computer shows an expiration date of 12/31/2013 what date does your cookie show?

How/where do you set your cookie expiration date?

HDTVFanAtic

11-28-04, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by MichaelZ
I've only had two restarts out of 70+ hours recording (DTC-100) and both of those occured when MyHD was recording at the same time and I think it is when it started up. I have a 2400AMD chip ASUS motherboard with one 80gig maxtor attached.
Also, I left Zap2it in my browser for over an hour today and it still never timed out and it was inactive the whole time (minimized on the desktop). I am not sure what your problem is but it is a browser problem and not an R5000 problem. The Zap2it cookie on my computer shows an expiration date of 12/31/2013 what date does your cookie show?

#1 Stating the obvious, a DTC-100 is not on the Dish Network. As Directv doesn't put out the same bandwidth or signal as Dish, it is somewhat of an apple to oranges comparison. However, 70 hours of recording could be viewed as about 35 movies - thus instead of 1 in 10 you are hitting about 1 in 20.

Over the past 3 days I have probably seen 1 in 20 with Dish.

However, the error rate in the files is horrible.

Again, different delivery methods, but I would be interested in having you record several movies from SHO, HBO and HDNET at same time as DISH users do. Then use an mpeg analyzer program (mpeg2repair/mprobe etc) to compare the errors. This is what I have stated is being done dish to dish with some 169time users.

#2 As for the Zap2it login, If you read above, you will see I agree that Zap2it it is not entirely a R5000 problem. It has to do with something else. YOU WILL ALSO READ OTHERS HAVING THE SAME ISSUE. I have taken more actions than any normal user would - including adding zap2it in the trusted zones BECAUSE I DO NOT TRUST IT.

Regardless I simply suggested an option that should be included in the software that would get you to the original page first time - everytime - one that is very doable.

There is an issue between the regular Zap2it and the program guide that the R5000 uses. If you that there is no interaction between the R5000 and Zap2it perhaps you can explain why the record button doesnt show up on the same url when you enter the address manually. Zap2it clearly has an interaction with the R5000 software.

If you will clear out your cookies (delete them all) from internet options and delete all files for good measure, first go to zap2it by regular web browser. Then examine your cookies. You will see the cookie it places.

Then open up the PVR, click on the legalease, put in your password etc and go to show my listings. Then check your cookies. You will notice that there is another new cookie for the interactive program guide as well as the Zap2it url and the ad server.

Now on my system, I then closed out IE.

Then I reopned IE and went to zap2it with the url in question and went straight in with no prompting.

Then I closed IE again and did the same thing with the R5000 PVR. BINGO -login and password required - etc etc etc.

Thus something between the PVR and Zap2it is not functioning properly.

I am not at all uncovinced that this has something to do with a combination of 1) Operating System (XP on mine) 2) Service Pack installed (SP2 on mine) 3) IE Update installed and (latest Critical Updates on Mine) and 4) User name on computer (ie Administrator).

Regardless, the login failure is a reality for many of those that have posted above. As Zap2it takes 60 seconds or more to load a page during primetime (in some instances) and going through the procedure every 10 minutes makes it a very unworkable solution for me, my brothers and apparently others users.

Again, a software rewrite containing the logon and password info for the PVR to submit automatically at the initial request would eliminate this entirely.

Now, for the other question about where to find cookies, go here:

X:\Documents and Settings\USERNAME\Cookies

Where X: is the letter of the drive your Windows Installation is on (usually c:\) and USERNAME is your logon name.

Do not delete cookies there. Instead go to Internet Explorer - Tools - Internet Options - General Tab and click on delete temporary files there - both cookies and files to clear out your system.

HDTVFanAtic

11-28-04, 02:41 PM

lol...posted too soon.

After 10 minutes the regular IE entry will not automatically go to listings either.

However, I did just try an interesting experiment.

AVS Forum uses cookies for automatic logon as well. So I went to AVS Forum on the R5000 Computer. Logged in - got the cookie. Now when I come back to AVS Forum, I do not have to log on.

Cookies and Automatic log on either work or they don't.

It's working on AVS Forum on the R5000 computer. It will be interesting to see if this stops working on the R5000 computer in 10 minutes or 10 days or 10 years.

And I have gone so far as to give Zap2it trusted site status - something I would much rather give to AVS Forum instead of Zap2it.

So clearly, there is a difference and as noted above - it works for some - not for others...your mileage may vary...member FDIC....not available in Alaska and Hawaii....must be 18 to apply.

HookedOnTV

11-28-04, 04:32 PM

Zap2it doesn't want you to be able to log in programitically. If you could someone would probably write an app that would log in and "scrape" all of the listing information therefore eliminating the need to browse their site and read their ads.

R5000-HD

11-28-04, 06:04 PM

It seems there is more and more chatter out there wrt E* transmission errors:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=35457&page=1

Whatever the cause (uplink or muxers), the best any recording option can do is to capture it exactly as it comes in. Garbage in = garbage out. With these problems being increasingly frequent as of late it is no wonder that any error analysis of the streams would jump exponentially in number.

-R

HookedOnTV

11-29-04, 09:23 AM

The last few days there have been all kinds of glitches on E*. I've seen it on both my 6000 and 811.

HookedOnTV

11-29-04, 10:48 AM

I'm not terribly fond of using the zap2it web page for scheduling. Often it is very slow. So...

Found an existing application that uses the xmltv data and made the necessary modifications to make it generate the file the R5000 app needs to schedule a recording. You will need to have the .NET framework installed.

1. Sign up for data from zap2it labs. Use code TGYM-ZKOC-BUTV.

http://labs.zap2it.com/ztvws/ztvws_login/1,1059,TMS01-1,00.html

Configure your channel lineup etc. I have it just bringing down the few HD channels that I might record from.

2. Download xmltv and extract it to somewhere like the root of the c: drive. I renamed the folder to just xmltv to make things easier.

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=39046

3. Configure xmltv. From a command prompt in the zmltv folder do:

xmltv.exe tv_grab_na_dd --configure

4. Download listings to make sure everything is set up correctly. From the same command prompt do something like:

xmltv.exe tv_grab_na_dd --days 7 --output listings.xml

5. Download and install my modified version of TVGuide (http://tvguide.sourceforge.net/) from my website

http://www.hookedontv.com/TVGuide.zip

6. Configure TVGuide (data location, xmltv.exe location if you want to do the data load from within the app, etc.) to your liking.

7. Double click a program to create a recording.

It's simple but it works. You can schedule a download of data using the Windows Scheduled Tasks.

jamesmil

11-30-04, 01:41 AM

Hey Hooked, thanks a lot! This is a nice alternative. Note that the program appearently hardcodes the schedule file to be saved in "C:\xmltv" so it will crash if you don't make a folder called "xmltv" at the root of C:\. Also, it doesn't support the *_dd form of config files if you want to try and run xmltv from within the guide program (no big deal).

CherieK

11-30-04, 06:23 AM

Help! We have been unable to get an R5000-HD to work _AT ALL_ in our HTPC system since we received the unit over a month ago. We have exchanged email back and forth between us and customer support at Nextcom many times. Basically, they have been unable or unwilling to specify a combination of USB controller and drivers that is known to work.

Is there any successful user of the R5000-HD that can specify the manufacturer and model number of a known-good USB controller and the exact names and revision numbers of all the associated drivers?

Is there any successful user who is using the R5000-HD with an Asus A8V Deluxe motherboard and an Athlon 64 3800 running Windows 2000? Better yet, is there anyone who has been able to use the motherboard USB controller as well?

We have tried three different USB controllers and followed all of the suggestions from Nextcom customer support without success.

The embedded USB controller on the Asus A8V Deluxe motherboard will only receive 6 or 7 seconds before the HDVR program reports an error and restarts the recording. Moreover, the files that are produced are garbage when played.

We disabled the embedded controller and installed a Belkin F5U220 PCI USB controller, which uses an NEC chip. Just to make sure, we were able to change the channel on the satellite receiver using the HDVR program. However, as soon as we pressed the record button, we got the Windows "blue screen of death". The error message was "DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL in ousbehci.sys". This was with the latest drivers for the Belkin board downloaded from their website.

We next purchased and installed a Compaq UC-160 (Rev 1.2) USB controller card. This card also uses an NEC chip as per the recommendation of customer support. We got the same "blue screen of death" results as with the Belkin controller.

The following is a list of things that we have already checked:
-We are only recording HD content.
-Our HTPC machine has 2 Gigabytes of RAM.
-There are no USB hubs or external USB drives connected to the USB controller.
-The R5000-HD is set for Dish Network, which is the proper service.
-The bitrate is set to "Constant 19.392Mb/s".
-The USB controllers are 2.0.
-We replaced the supplied USB cable with a "2.0" one.
-We have used the PCI slot closest to the AGP slot.
-We have downloaded and tried the latest drivers from both the manufacturers and Microsoft.
-We are using the latest 1.5a drivers from Nextcom.

HookedOnTV

11-30-04, 09:17 AM

Have you:

Tried the card in other pci slots?
Turned PCI Bus Master on in the BIOS?

R5000-HD

11-30-04, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by CherieK
Help! We have been unable to get an R5000-HD to work _AT ALL_ in our HTPC system since we received the unit over a month ago. We have exchanged email back and forth between us and customer support at Nextcom many times. Basically, they have been unable or unwilling to specify a combination of USB controller and drivers that is known to work.

I think you are still missing the point in this issue. As reported to you, we have tested out the exact make and model Belkin card that you are using this morning and so far it has been recording perfectly for the last ~4 hours. So, as far as we are concerned that card would be part of a list of "USB controller and drivers that is known to work" but it clearly doesn't work for you. That is why providing a list of this sort is just about meaningless. There are numerous issues that can exist between the various MB manufacturers & PCI cards that we cannot have any knowledge of (unless we were to purchase every PC/motherboard combo available!)

Our recommendation still stands at this point to open up a support dialog with Belkin and/or Asus to see if there are any known issues with their PCI card and various MB models. Otherwise, the other alternative is to look for another card that works. I believe we supplied you with 4-5 different models. I don't hold out much hope any of the NEC-based cards since even though they are from different manufactureres they are for the most part going to be electrically identical.

BTW, the R5000-HD driver has never been updated in any of the software releases to date and there are no known issues or anticipated updates.

-R

HDTVFanAtic

12-06-04, 02:33 AM

I agree that the problem appears to be something strange.

As a test, 2 R5000HD users recorded Dangerous Lives of the Altar Boys on Showtime at 9:35pm Eastern Tuesday 11/29/2004 off the 110 Bird. (If you have this a capture from this time and wish to play along). All captures were edited to start at the same place and end at the same place with HDTVtoMPEG2 (though some were off up to 3 seconds as you will see).

All were then examined using MPEG2Repair with the expanded verbose error reporting.

All programs had the exact same 333k error log. They all showed the same errors at the same place - some a little more severe than others, but the consistency is clear.

For example:
Log #1

Sequence Frame 150671(710-P) / Time 1:44:20 :
Error: Motion vector going out of range at MBA=1200(0,160)
Error: Missing 1 picture slices at MBA=1200(0,160)
FileInfo: Last errors span 1120 bytes at file offset 15176910945
Error: Motion vector going out of range at MBA=1680(0,224)
Error: Missing 1 picture slices at MBA=1680(0,224)
FileInfo: Last errors span 592 bytes at file offset 15176922511
Error: Motion vector going out of range at MBA=2640(0,352)
Error: Missing 1 picture slices at MBA=2640(0,352)
FileInfo: Last errors span 578 bytes at file offset 15176939681
Error: Motion vector going out of range at MBA=4080(0,544)
Error: Missing 1 picture slices at MBA=4080(0,544)
FileInfo: Last errors span 946 bytes at file offset 15176969337
Error: Motion vector going out of range at MBA=4561(16,608)
Error: Missing 1 picture slices at MBA=4560(0,608)
FileInfo: Last errors span 726 bytes at file offset 15176978523

Sequence Frame 150739(778-P) / Time 1:44:23 :
Error: Motion vector going out of range at MBA=7560(0,1008)
Error: Missing 1 picture slices at MBA=7560(0,1008)
FileInfo: Last errors span 222 bytes at file offset 15183850121

Sequence Frame 150755(794-P) / Time 1:44:24 :
Error: Motion vector going out of range at MBA=6840(0,912)
Error: Missing 1 picture slices at MBA=6840(0,912)
FileInfo: Last errors span 130 bytes at file offset 15185468067

Sequence Frame 150961(997-B) / Time 1:44:32 :

Info: End of sequence: 1920 x 1080, 29.97 fps (with telecine flags), 18.00 Mbps.
Info: Found 150961 frames/fields since start of sequence.
Info: 766 frames/fields found with errors.
Info: 773346 corrupted bytes in file.

End of Log

Log #2

Sequence Frame 150743(710-P) / Time 1:44:23 :
Error: Motion vector going out of range at MBA=1200(0,160)
Error: Missing 1 picture slices at MBA=1200(0,160)
FileInfo: Last errors span 1120 bytes at file offset 15182411073
Error: Motion vector going out of range at MBA=1680(0,224)
Error: Missing 1 picture slices at MBA=1680(0,224)
FileInfo: Last errors span 592 bytes at file offset 15182422639
Error: Motion vector going out of range at MBA=2640(0,352)
Error: Missing 1 picture slices at MBA=2640(0,352)
FileInfo: Last errors span 578 bytes at file offset 15182439997
Error: Motion vector going out of range at MBA=4080(0,544)
Error: Missing 1 picture slices at MBA=4080(0,544)
FileInfo: Last errors span 946 bytes at file offset 15182469465
Error: Motion vector going out of range at MBA=4561(16,608)
Error: Missing 1 picture slices at MBA=4560(0,608)
FileInfo: Last errors span 726 bytes at file offset 15182478839

Sequence Frame 150811(778-P) / Time 1:44:26 :
Error: Motion vector going out of range at MBA=7560(0,1008)
Error: Missing 1 picture slices at MBA=7560(0,1008)
FileInfo: Last errors span 222 bytes at file offset 15189350437

Sequence Frame 150827(794-P) / Time 1:44:26 :
Error: Motion vector going out of range at MBA=6840(0,912)
Error: Missing 1 picture slices at MBA=6840(0,912)
FileInfo: Last errors span 130 bytes at file offset 15190968195

Sequence Frame 151047(1011-B) / Time 1:44:35 :

Info: End of sequence: 1920 x 1080, 29.97 fps (with telecine flags), 18.00 Mbps.
Info: Found 151047 frames/fields since start of sequence.
Info: 766 frames/fields found with errors.
Info: 773346 corrupted bytes in file.

End of Log

Same number of frames/fields with errors, same number of corrupted bytes - virtually identical.

Thus, it is not a SINGLE Dish Receivers. It either has to be originating out of R5000 Dish 6000 units or out of the Dish chain

A test was set up with several 169time users and a C Band user and even someone with an open cable box not on Dish for reference over this past weekend, however.....guess what happened?

The cap of The Postman was error free for the 3 hours it was on. Same with the first 8pm Saturday showing of The Last Samurai.

As no R5000HD software was changed, it does seem suspicious that this was the case. You would think if it were the software, it would be consistent in errors.

Now, Antone Fisher caused a file restart every showing in mid-November over the course of a week. Yet a week later, no issues.

It would seem that the same input should cause the R5000 to behave the same way every time. Yet it seems that the problem exists and other times it doesnt.

BTW, as a side note, as Dish allows you to view the same PPV all day for the same $5.95 price, Passion of The Christ was capped every showing for a day.The bit rate was significantly better for the first 2 showings (at 10am and 1pm) than later on in the day/evening (starting with a 5pm showing). Thus Dish does play around with these things.

This, quite simply, is why an apples to apples comparison will only work off the same capture at the same time, though the post about this being a 110 satellite issue is interesting.

Again, the final and conclusive test will be off Dish via 169time and R5000HD when the problem occurs again - most likely during the next week.

But it is looking less and less as its the new R5000HD software causing all the errors in the captures.

As for the R5000 not starting - always deciding to do this on 1 time showings or limited scheduled items, usually waiting for drive or other error messages thats a different issue. :(

And finally, does anyone know how to add recording time to a capture in progress? You can do this with MyHD, but when you hit OTR on the R5000HD to more time, it stops the current recording and restarts it - thus ruining your cap.

Thus, if HDNET only shows The Wall once every 6 months and it starts 30 minutes late as it did Sunday Night, you are hosed trying to add more time to the capture.

HDTVFanAtic

12-06-04, 02:35 PM

As I suspected, it was too good to last.

After a weekend of 0 Error caps, every cap since the overnight Silence of the Lambs has produced an error resulting in a new file. 5 for 5.

This included Silence of The Lambs, The Life And Death of Peter Sellers, Shattered Glass and Moscow on the Hudson just blew up so badly it shut the Recorder down and wanted to send an error report to Microsoft.

Something is clearly very strange here.

mkerdman

12-06-04, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by HDTVFanAtic
A test was set up with several 169time users and a C Band user and even someone with an open cable box not on Dish for reference over this past weekend, however.....guess what happened?

The cap of The Postman was error free for the 3 hours it was on. Same with the first 8pm Saturday showing of The Last Samurai.

HDTVFanAtic

Are you saying a 169Time AVX-1 in a Dish 6000 was error free?

Or, was only the 169time and a C Band error free?

HDTVFanAtic

12-06-04, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by mkerdman
HDTVFanAtic

Are you saying a 169Time AVX-1 in a Dish 6000 was error free?

Or, was only the 169time and a C Band error free?

I am saying that as for The Postman and BOTH showings of The Last Samarui on Saturday Night and Sunday morning, as well as most other things, there were no errors with the R5000HD and other units.

My only concern was why was the R5000 showing a tremendous amount of errors in the last several weeks after a pretty flawless start.

The expansion of the tests to include some 169time, CBand and Cable users was to see if they had clean copies when the R5000 was producing errors. Nothing more, nothing less.

As the R5000 produced no errors this weekend on these caps (nor did the others mentioned), you cannot say that the R5000 produced problems where the others DID NOT.

It is HIGHLY UNLIKELY, in my estimation, that the R5000 would produce perfect caps all weekend and then go south during the week. If it were software doing this in the R5000, it shouldn't produce error free caps for days and then go south like a light switch was turned on.

Now with everything going down the tubes on HBO and Showtime this morning, it is the time to determine how different the errors are between the R5000 and the other units. Unfortunately, the week is also harder to coordinate the apples to apples test.

If you are interested, someone else did this comparison recently of the different systems for bandwidth. It was only a 160 second clip - and no guarantee it was the same showing either of Once Upon A Time in Mexico, but:

Once Upon a Time in Mexico - 160 seconds clip

Satellite System.............File length........Actual BR......Manzanita BR

HDD200 C Band AVX1....257927352.....12.896 Mb/s...14.827 Mb/s
DTC100 DirectTV AVX1..195734696.......9.787 Mb/s....9.056 Mb/s
6000 Dish AVX1............254408368.....12.720 Mb/s...13.28 Mb/s
6000 Dish R5000...........278318208.....13.916 Mb/s...14.59 Mb/s

Pitty the DirecTV user who wanted HDTV.

robena

12-06-04, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by HDTVFanAtic
If you are interested, someone else did this comparison recently of the different systems for bandwidth. It was only a 160 second clip - and no guarantee it was the same showing either of Once Upon A Time in Mexico,
It was the same showing, on November 20.

stjr

12-06-04, 05:58 PM

It's interesting that two simultaneous recordings of the same film on E* with 169time and R5000 yield different bit rates. IMO, this is a further indication that the two systems will also handle errors differently once they are detected.

R5000-HD

12-06-04, 07:00 PM

Originally posted by HDTVFanAtic

It is HIGHLY UNLIKELY, in my estimation, that the R5000 would produce perfect caps all weekend and then go south during the week. If it were software doing this in the R5000, it shouldn't produce error free caps for days and then go south like a light switch was turned on.

Now with everything going down the tubes on HBO and Showtime this morning, it is the time to determine how different the errors are between the R5000 and the other units.

E* is screwing up their source stream. This will effect all recording systems in different ways. We have analyzed hundreds of hours of recordings made on various systems and locations. Through careful test setups, analyzing data collected at exactly the same time, we have collected a series of test samples that point to corruption of data at the E* source. One of my favorite examples is a glitch in a hdnet movie where Andy Garcia is cross examining a cop on the stand, captured during a 20 hour recording run. The movie played twice during the 20 hour recording and the glitch in the video occurs at exactly the same place on both showings.

If anyone can put us in touch with the "right people" at E*, we can provide detailed examples of how they are corrupting their data stream

Sadly most of the "glitch" problems in the dish system have been due to E* conversion to re-compression. It started in late summer, about the time we were introducing the R5000-HD :(

BTW one of the reasons r5000-HD users are seeing more of these glitches is because they do more recoding in a shorter period of time. Recording six 2 hour movies unattended via dvhs would be quite difficult. The glitches seem to come in bursts. We typically need to record about 20 consecutive hours to capture one or two glitch events.

Originally posted by HDTVFanAtic

If you are interested, someone else did this comparison recently of the different systems for bandwidth. It was only a 160 second clip - and no guarantee it was the same showing either of Once Upon A Time in Mexico, but:

Once Upon a Time in Mexico - 160 seconds clip

Satellite System.............File length........Actual BR......Manzanita BR

HDD200 C Band AVX1....257927352.....12.896 Mb/s...14.827 Mb/s
DTC100 DirectTV AVX1..195734696.......9.787 Mb/s....9.056 Mb/s
6000 Dish AVX1............254408368.....12.720 Mb/s...13.28 Mb/s
6000 Dish R5000...........278318208.....13.916 Mb/s...14.59 Mb/s

YOU CANNOT COMPARE BIT RATES OF NON TIME ALIGNED SAMPLES.
the mpeg-2 video is variable rate so if the samples are not from an identical section of the movie, the bit rates will not be the same!

If the same clip is extracted from both dish systems, the bit rate will be the same, because both the r5000 and the avx1 do not touch the underlying mpeg-2 stream, they just repackage it into a transport stream.

Originally posted by HDTVFanAtic
Pitty the DirecTV user who wanted HDTV.

Not exactly. I compared a side by side capture of D* and E* clip of Empire Records from HDNMV. Both clips came from the same source because the film scratches from the master were identical. IIRC the D* average bit rate was ~10Mb and the E* was closer to 15Mb. I played back both clips on a myhd100 to a Hitachi HDTV CRT reference monitor. The results were indistinguishable. (at one point both samples were available on kevin's site)

Analysis of the extracted mpeg-2 elementary stream showed that D* was using telecine mode and E* was not. In layman's terms, D* was encoding the movie as 24 frames per second and then using 3:2 pull down on the decode to convert the image back to an interlaced 30 fps image. E* on the other hand, encoded all frames as interlaced at 30fps. Since the source master was film, the actual source rate was 24 fps, so the E* encoder was encoding more frames than necessary.

The empire records test sample was recorded before E* started re-compressing and before D* started downresing 1280x1080i

Lastly, please be very meticulous about your test set ups and the conclusions you draw. If you record the same E* program at two different locations using two different recording systems, it is difficult to draw any conclusions because the test set ups are different. On the other hand if the extracted mpeg-2 data shows exactly the same errors (mpegrepair) on both systems, then it would be reasonable to assume that the locations and recording systems were not damaging the data, therefore the mpeg-2 errors must have originated from the source stream.

-R

R5000-HD

12-06-04, 07:17 PM

Originally posted by stjr
It's interesting that two simultaneous recordings of the same film on E* with 169time and R5000 yield different bit rates. IMO, this is a further indication that the two systems will also handle errors differently once they are detected.

Steve,
The recordings were not simultaneous! See the following
Originally posted by HDTVFanAtic

If you are interested, someone else did this comparison recently of the different systems for bandwidth. It was only a 160 second clip - and no guarantee it was the same showing either of Once Upon A Time in Mexico,

Unless the files are from the exact same clip recorded at exacly the same time, the bitrates will be different. Both systems repackage(remultiplex) the existing mpeg-2 stream into a transport stream. They do not change the elementary stream bit rate. The average elementary stream bit rate is set by the encoder/recompressor not the remultiplexer. Therefore, identical clips extracted from both systems will have the same average bit rate.

-R

dahester

12-06-04, 07:24 PM

Originally posted by HDTVFanAtic

Thus, if HDNET only shows The Wall once every 6 months and it starts 30 minutes late as it did Sunday Night, you are hosed trying to add more time to the capture.

So funny you mentioned that. My first recording of The Wall got hosed because of the time delay and the fact that CapDVHS won't let you add time to a scheduled recording in progress either. But I got it the second time around. :)

-Dylan

stjr

12-06-04, 07:52 PM

Originally posted by R5000-HD
Steve,
The recordings were not simultaneous! See the followingrobena stated It was the same showing, on November 20. I was hoping for a clarification.

HDTVFanAtic

12-06-04, 10:59 PM

Robena had all 4 samples. I did not. He knows better than me if they were from same 160 seconds. As he is very anal about quality, I assume they would be the same 160 second clips - but do not know that for sure - thus I qualified it as best I could.

That is why I was comparing movies as a whole - not clips. Easier to get same info without sending movie half way across planet.

While I agree with R- statement that it does not appear that the R5000 is producing these errors from the evidence thus far, I DO NOT understand how they could not have errors for 3 days (all weekend) and they start back up in force on Monday.

If it is recompression, it is happening 24/7/365.

R5000-HD

12-07-04, 02:23 AM

Originally posted by HDTVFanAtic
...
While I agree with R- statement that it does not appear that the R5000 is producing these errors from the evidence thus far, I DO NOT understand how they could not have errors for 3 days (all weekend) and they start back up in force on Monday.

If it is recompression, it is happening 24/7/365.

My comment wrt recompression is that once E*switched it on, weird things started happening on the dish 6000 receivers. There were reports of never before seen gray blocks, glitches even with 95 receive level, etc.

This is because E* is actually transmitting bad data. This is truly sad because even if you buy a 30" dish, you're still going to see glitches.

As to the error free weekend, that's consistent with what we've seen during testing. Sometimes it takes a couple of 20hr recordings to get one that has the glitch were looking for. One nasty glitch that E* was transmitting, took almost a week to capture.

Anyway... My belief is that E*'s new recompressors have an intermittent bug that is causing these problems. If anyone knows who makes the re-compressors, please PM me so I can contact the manufacturer directly. I've got lots of data to document the problem.

-R

robena

12-07-04, 03:07 AM

Yes, the 4 160 seconds clips are exactly at the same location in the movie, at least as exactly as HDTVtoMPEG2 allows it. The error must be +-1 frame at the beginning and at the end, less than 1%.

The first 3 samples were recorded by a friend located in NJ, and the fourth (the R5000 recording) by another friend in Florida.

The first bit-rate indication is simply the length of the file divided by 160, and the second one is computed by the Manzanita stream analyzer after removing the NULLs.

Before NULL removal, the bit-rate was exactly 19.3 Mb/s for each stream.

I have no idea why the R5000 recording shows more bit-rate, that seems indeed very strange. Before NULL removal, all files had almost exactly the same size.

R5000-HD

12-07-04, 07:09 PM

Originally posted by robena
Yes, the 4 160 seconds clips are exactly at the same location in the movie, at least as exactly as HDTVtoMPEG2 allows it. The error must be +-1 frame at the beginning and at the end, less than 1%.

Slight correction HDTVtoMPEG2 does NOT edit on the frame level but at the GOP level, so it's more like 15 frames.

The first 3 samples were recorded by a friend located in NJ, and the fourth (the R5000 recording) by another friend in Florida.

The first bit-rate indication is simply the [null stripped] length of the file divided by 160,

OK, Got it. The null striped file size also includes PCR packets, PMT, PAT, and audio packets. The resulting total, non null, bit rate will be affected by the rates of the PCR , PMT and PAT tables. the R5000 follows the DVB recommendation for PCR, PMT, and PAT, rates of 40ms, 400ms, and 100ms respectively. The R5000 bitrate, as calculated above, is higher because we send more PCRs than the old mpeg-2 rate of 100ms.

the second one is computed by the Manzanita stream analyzer after removing the NULLs.

I assume you're using Manzanita STREAMID $90, rather than MP2TSA $2000.

Both programs are more accurate when using non-null stripped files. If you are using MP2TSA like we do, the field you want is "Average payload rate" rather than "Average transport packet rate". The average payload rate for E* should be the same regardless of the system used to record it.

As another comparison, try running the original non-stripped clips through TSReader and look at the average bit rate in the pid bar graph window. The average bit rates from either recording system should be very close (from the same provider, E*)

Another test you could run is to compress all the non stripped files using a good compressor like winzip. MPEG-2 data is not compressible, but the NULL packets and filler compress nicely. Again identical clips recorded from the same provider should be very close in size regardless of the recording method used.

-R

robena

12-08-04, 02:26 AM

Originally posted by R5000-HD
Slight correction HDTVtoMPEG2 does NOT edit on the frame level but at the GOP level, so it's more like 15 frames.

Oops, sorry, that was a typo. I was thinking GOP and +-1 second, and Frame came out. +- 1 second is less than 1% like I said.

I assume you're using Manzanita STREAMID $90, rather than MP2TSA $2000.
That was indeed MP2TSA, but the free limited demo version only!

In demo mode, it still displays the calculated bit-rate.

Both programs are more accurate when using non-null stripped files. If you are using MP2TSA like we do, the field you want is "Average payload rate" rather than "Average transport packet rate". The average payload rate for E* should be the same regardless of the system used to record it.

The average payload rate is not available in demo mode, hence the need to NULL strip.

After double checking, it turned out that the R5000 recording was done on a second airing, a few hours later. That might explain the slight bit-rate difference, that and the different way you handle the various packets you spoke about.

The difference is slim anyway, I think that the most important is the huge drop in bit-rate on DirecTV.

Thanks for your input and the clarification about this test results.

R5000-HD

12-08-04, 03:38 AM

Originally posted by robena

That was indeed MP2TSA, but the free limited demo version only!

In demo mode, it still displays the calculated bit-rate.

Sorry Robert, you can't use MP2TSA calculated bit-rates because MP2TSA only uses the first few PCRs to get a starting bit rate for the analysis. So the "calculated rate" is not the average rate, but the initial rate.

Just to prove this, I muxed a TS file at 19.39Mb for the first 15 seconds and then after that, I programmed the muxer to jump to 38.78Mb for the last 15 seconds.

I ran the TS file on both MP2TSA ($2K) and TSReaderlite (free).

MP2TSA showed the rate as 19.39 (the correct initial rate)
TSReader showed the correct average rate of ~29Mbit

TSReader lite does a really good job of calculating the average bit rates for each PID in the stream and the average transport rate. see http://www.coolstf.com

-R

robena

12-08-04, 07:01 AM

Originally posted by R5000-HD

Sorry Robert, you can't use MP2TSA calculated bit-rates because MP2TSA only uses the first few PCRs to get a starting bit rate for the analysis.TSReader lite does a really good job of calculating the average bit rates for each PID in the stream and the average transport rate[/B]
Thanks, that's interesting information, although in this particular case the Manzanita readings are pretty close to the truth.

I'll repost the data using all 3 methods to measure the bit-rate (file size, Manzanita and TS reader) after making a detailed visual comparison between the DirectTV and Dish recordings.

It's already obvious from all that's been said that there won't be any visual or measured significant difference between AVX1 and R5000 recordings.

HDTVFanAtic

12-09-04, 02:28 AM

Whatever E* did this week at least twice on Tuesday the current R5000 software errored so bad that it shut down and sent a report to Microsoft. The report was the largest I have ever seen - as it took minutes on their graphs...instead of seconds. It had to be over 10meg I would guess.

But then again Wednesday, everything goes back to normal and flawless caps and no errors.

Have you noticed a big differece on average bitrates on the same channels on days when there are tons of errors versus no errors? That's the next figure I intend to examine.

Its really bad that you don't know which side of the spectrum you'll come down on before you cap for the day.

In all my years of seeing weirdness, this clearly takes the cake in terms of consistency - or maybe its inconsistency, depending on how you look at things.

It's almost like they push it to break for a day.....and then realize what they did and turn it off for a day or two.

videobruce

12-09-04, 07:51 AM

Before I read through these 73 printed pages I just collected, can someone sum up just what this consists of other than software?
IOW's other than your STB from a satellite service that you already have, what else do you get for $750?

HookedOnTV

12-09-04, 09:28 AM

Originally posted by videobruce
Before I read through these 73 printed pages I just collected, can someone sum up just what this consists of other than software?
IOW's other than your STB from a satellite service that you already have, what else do you get for $750?

You send in your stb and they install a circuit board (for lack of a better description) that has a usb port on it. This board is the "brains" of the interface.

HDTVFanAtic

12-09-04, 11:53 AM

After flawless caps of Dish yesterday, the recompression apparently was turned back on around 3am this morning Eastern.

I noticed the screen went blank for around 10 seconds during Eyes Wide Shut, though no satellite signal was lost.

After that, everything went downhill fast.

Every file since then has restarted multiple times. Standing in the Shadows of Motown has restarted 3 times and its been on less than an hour.

Pat Garrett on HDNET at 6am Eastern had the white/grey flicks so bad it looked like a snowstorm - even in the brightest scenes. I had never seen it so bad.

I believe the video/audio drop out around 3am was when they brought the compressors back online, although i have yet to compare timing with HBO/Showtime and HDNet versus cable to see how different they are.

It only makes sense that they have to loose the signal for a while when they start to re-compress as it doesnt happen in real time.

Have you seen this - and is today just horrible in terms of capturing?

R5000-HD

12-10-04, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by HDTVFanAtic
After flawless caps of Dish yesterday, the recompression apparently was turned back on around 3am this morning Eastern.

I noticed the screen went blank for around 10 seconds during Eyes Wide Shut, though no satellite signal was lost.

After that, everything went downhill fast.
...

That is a very typical pattern. Video will freeze for 10-15 secs (sometimes even longer), with or without sound. We thought at first it could be an uplink problem but that doesn't fully explain it since we have seen the same exact patterns of bad data. So, it points to their re-compression or possibly to their statistical muxers. The goal of the statistical re-muxer is to maximize the efficient use of bandwidth by throttling individual stream's data rates. So, what happens if by chance all the streams are contending for a high a data rate simultaneously (do to detailed/rapidly changing scenes)? Someone has to loose out. That would certaintly explain some of the new macro-blocking artifacts.

Right now we seem to be in a good phase. Current test stream has been recording for 21 hrs straight from HDNM with no problems logged :)

-R

HDTVFanAtic

12-10-04, 04:25 PM

Yes, i noticed same cycle as noted before. Everything goes downhill to the pits and then all the sudden it resets. After Standing in the Shadows of Motown blew up multiple times, as noted above, most of the caps since then have been pretty flawless.

That's what I can't seem to get my hands around is why it clearly is pushed to the limit, breaks and then seems to reset for lack of a better term.

One of the keys during those breaks to explain what is happening is to see exactly how much is missing from a clean version of the same.

For example, if it is being throttled with statistical re-muxer, then a 10 second hole should be missing 10 seconds of the move when compared to a clean copy.

However, if a 10 second hole is missing literally no content from the movie when it picks back up, that would seem to be the remuxer kicking in and building the time lag between so called "live" and the remuxed output - or so I would think.

That is another reason i think it is important to compare lag of the source between cable and sat at various times.

A higher lag rate than at other times would probably indicate an additional remuxing in the path.

HDTVFanAtic

12-10-04, 04:26 PM

btw, is this a 4 pin mini usb cable or a 5 pin mini usb cable? I see both at Frys and not sure what this unit uses.

mkerdman

12-10-04, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by HDTVFanAtic
After flawless caps of Dish yesterday, the recompression apparently was turned back on around 3am this morning Eastern.

I noticed the screen went blank for around 10 seconds during Eyes Wide Shut, though no satellite signal was lost.

After that, everything went downhill fast.

Every file since then has restarted multiple times. Standing in the Shadows of Motown has restarted 3 times and its been on less than an hour.

Pat Garrett on HDNET at 6am Eastern had the white/grey flicks so bad it looked like a snowstorm - even in the brightest scenes. I had never seen it so bad.

I believe the video/audio drop out around 3am was when they brought the compressors back online, although i have yet to compare timing with HBO/Showtime and HDNet versus cable to see how different they are.

It only makes sense that they have to loose the signal for a while when they start to re-compress as it doesnt happen in real time.

Have you seen this - and is today just horrible in terms of capturing?

What's quirky though is that DVHSTool always captures the entire 169Time AVX-1 stream to a hard drive of the same E* broadcasts (glitches and all / if any) that cause the R5000-HD to restart the capture one or more times in the course of a 2-hour movie requiring a re-record, if the program is repeated.

Similarly a JVC 30K can capture the entire 169Time AVX-1 stream of the same E* broadcasts (glitches and all / if any).

R5000-HD

12-10-04, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by mkerdman
What's quirky though is that DVHSTool always captures the entire 169Time AVX-1 stream to a hard drive of the same E* broadcasts (glitches and all / if any) that cause the R5000-HD to restart the capture one or more times in the course of a 2-hour movie requiring a re-record, if the program is repeated.

Similarly a JVC 30K can capture the entire 169Time AVX-1 stream of the same E* broadcasts (glitches and all / if any).

Murray,
From the large amount of captures you do using the R5000 in a typical day I'm curious how you manage to get similar milage for comparison purposes using the 169 time. Maybe you stay home /stay up all night feeding tapes...

Comparing one or 2 simultaneous captures does not a rule make.

Besides, I've heard about some of these other recording devices being plagued with different sorts of problems due to E* screwing up the stream, like prolonged periods of audio drop out. Even the 6000s decoder can get so badly hung by these stream errors that the box has to be cycled.

A conservative approach to this problem requires lengthy periods of testing to make sure re-starts aren't traded for corrupted streams.

Personally I would like to see E* clean up their act. Sometimes things have been so bad that just watching a broadcast is...unwatchable.

-R

HDTVFanAtic

12-11-04, 03:20 AM

Maybe he speaks because of issues like this:

Picture Attached.

One time showing on HBO. The People v. Larry Flynt.

You do everything right.

P4 3.02 with a gig of Ram.

No other real programs running on the computer - just the R5000 software. Not even a MyHD card in the same box.

You have it in the Reservation ready to go.

And, the program doesn't start - "waiting for drive".

You can see from the task manager nothing intensive was happening - but the R5000 buffer was just spinning away - waiting for a drive that never happend.

So even after E* send out bad data, a few times they don't, you don't don't do anything wrong and BOOM - the software doesnt work and there is no reason in the world it shouldn't.

Where are the 100% perfect caps that were talked about when this product first came out? That's what is wanted - and this clearly wasn't an E* failure nor does it have anything to do with e*- but happens far too many times.

R5000-HD

12-11-04, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by HDTVFanAtic
Maybe he speaks because of issues like this:

Picture Attached.

One time showing on HBO. The People v. Larry Flynt.

You do everything right.

P4 3.02 with a gig of Ram.

No other real programs running on the computer - just the R5000 software. Not even a MyHD card in the same box.

You have it in the Reservation ready to go.

And, the program doesn't start - "waiting for drive".

You can see from the task manager nothing intensive was happening - but the R5000 buffer was just spinning away - waiting for a drive that never happend.

So even after E* send out bad data, a few times they don't, you don't don't do anything wrong and BOOM - the software doesnt work and there is no reason in the world it shouldn't.

Where are the 100% perfect caps that were talked about when this product first came out? That's what is wanted - and this clearly wasn't an E* failure nor does it have anything to do with e*- but happens far too many times.

Wow. This is really pretty amazing! You are not even a customer of ours. Is there any reason why the purchaser cannot contact us and open up a support dialog!!?? I think we're pretty friendly and try our best to be helpful. There's no reason to be scared...

So far this is the only incodence we have heard of this happening. This is indicative of something we have to examine that is unique to this person's setup. But we can't do that unless they are willing to work with us.

We have not received a single tech support inquiry in this matter or had any chance to exchange first hand information. It seems that you are much more interested in flaming us on a public forum than actually getting this resolved.

If someone is willing to engage in a professional interchange regarding this we are willing to help.

-R

HDTVFanAtic

12-11-04, 05:02 PM

First, I recommended this to my brother, based on what was posted here by the moderators.

He has had the issues so I when I went for Thanksgiving he wanted me to take the setup and try and get it working properly - thus I brought it home for what should have been a simple process.

I have put installed the software on 3 computers - all clean winxp installs with similar issues.

Second, you make no access to a phone number so this is the only tech support that is possible. If your response is I am not even a customer, then how or why would I have your unit? The unit is clearly yours so the arguement that I am not a customer is not a good one. If I purchased the unit would you tell my wife she wasn't the customer?

Third, 3 others have messaged me about similar problems, so I am not sure why you think think there are no other tech support claims of this.

Upon further examination of this, the previous 3 1/2 hour Showtime cap took up 145 Gig of Hard Drive Space. Again, thats 145 Gig of Hard Drive space and it wasn't usable.

This goes in line with other reports of a single capture of yours going into hyper drive and recording 50gig off a single movie.

I suspect that the high buffer useage shown on your graph is the program misbehaving and thus not allowing the next capture to start.

As clearly can be seen from the picture, no other windows program is taking any resources to speak of.

Now, I am trying to get this fixed for my brother because of the outlay of money he made based on my recommendations before I just have to give him a grand because of what he got.

But using your logic, HERE I AM, NOT A CUSTOMER by your definition as the check wasn't in my name, TRYING TO TROUBLESHOOT YOUR PRODUCT. WHY AM I TRYING TO WASTE MY TIME TO HELP YOU FIX YOUR PRODUCT OF WHICH THERE IS CLEARLY A PROBLEM?

And if you don't wish to have this posted in a public forum, then give us a phone number for support to fix the problem.

And if potential customers wait until they see these issues resolved, or not...then so be it.

But to act like there are no problems and this unit is flawless is.....for lack of a better term....bordering on false advertising.

mkerdman

12-11-04, 07:22 PM

In my experience, if you use the R5000-HD solution very often (i.e. multiple times daily), you will greatly increase the odds that you will encounter some of the described failures far more frequently than a casual user (i.e. multiple times weekly).

A possible benefit can be seen in the R5000-HD creating multi-part recordings by restarting one or more times in the completion of the capture and a scheduled event.

The benefit is that it MAY be an indication that capturing another broadcast of the program is highly advisable.

Of course the problem with that is there may NOT be another broadcast available (i.e. the One time showing on HBO. The People v. Larry Flynt).

HookedOnTV

12-11-04, 07:30 PM

I've never had a recording keep going eating up disk space.
I've never had a recording fail to fire (except the time a power blip booted the pc and I didn't have the schedule loaded).

Only for the last couple weeks have I had recording restarts and they have only been on content from the 110 sat, caps from 148 have been flawless. I definately think there are problems with E*'s transmission but with the degree of problems you are having it sounds like it could simply be a faulty unit. Certainly possible. Have the purchaser request the unit be checked out at Nextcom's facility.

HDTVFanAtic

12-11-04, 11:57 PM

Originally posted by HookedOnTV
I've never had a recording keep going eating up disk space.
I've never had a recording fail to fire (except the time a power blip booted the pc and I didn't have the schedule loaded).

Only for the last couple weeks have I had recording restarts and they have only been on content from the 110 sat, caps from 148 have been flawless. I definately think there are problems with E*'s transmission but with the degree of problems you are having it sounds like it could simply be a faulty unit. Certainly possible. Have the purchaser request the unit be checked out at Nextcom's facility.

I would agree faulty unit if I didnt have others sending me private messages (those who have posted in this thread previously) about similar experiences. Many have told me about units not starting. Upon looking at the log, I now think that the non-starting errors are actually starts that cannot trigger - see below.

Others have told me of one cap going crazy and eating 50gig of disk space.

And just now....

C:\HDTV\Mystic River.ts size: 20740912KB, length: 2h22m36s, failures: 0 Finished: 12/11/04 22:52:01

C:\HDTV\The Lord of the Rings The Fellowship of the Ring1.ts size: 0KB, length: 0h0m40s, failures: 2318 Finished: 12/11/04 22:52:55
Remuxer Error: 255
Restarting stream as incremented filename
C:\HDTV\The Lord of the Rings The Fellowship of the Ring2.ts size: 0KB, length: 0h0m40s, failures: 2312 Finished: 12/11/04 22:53:37
Remuxer Error: 255
Restarting stream as incremented filename
C:\HDTV\The Lord of the Rings The Fellowship of the Ring3.ts size: 0KB, length: 0h0m39s, failures: 2305 Finished: 12/11/04 22:54:19
Remuxer Error: 255
Restarting stream as incremented filename
C:\HDTV\The Lord of the Rings The Fellowship of the Ring4.ts size: 0KB, length: 0h0m39s, failures: 2305 Finished: 12/11/04 22:55:01
Remuxer Error: 255
Restarting stream as incremented filename
C:\HDTV\The Lord of the Rings The Fellowship of the Ring5.ts size: 0KB, length: 0h0m38s, failures: 2305 Finished: 12/11/04 22:55:41
Remuxer Error: 255 Terminating Recording: Max. restarts exceded

Now, call that a failed start or a remuxer error - but the end result is no usable file to speak of.

For the people versus Larry Flynt as listed in the earlier post:

C:\HDTV\Unforgettable.ts size: 12557836KB, length: 1h26m21s, failures: 0 Finished: 12/10/04 19:25:40
Remuxer Error: 1
Restarting stream as incremented filename
C:\HDTV\Unforgettable1.ts size: 4827840KB, length: 0h33m22s, failures: 0 Finished: 12/10/04 19:59:05

C:\HDTV\People Versus Larry Flynt - Confidence.ts size: 3948KB, length: 0h0m1s, failures: 0 Finished: 12/11/04 03:26:34

C:\HDTV\Confidence.ts size: 15488192KB, length: 1h46m29s, failures: 0 Finished: 12/11/04 06:31:01

You will notice the record time is 1 second with no failure code.

You can also see the the screen capture of it trying to start on the previous post. You can see it triggered at 3:26:34 and the screen shot shows it was still "waiting for drive" 10 minutes later....with the buffer screaming on the R5000 software (not a so called hardware failure that sending it back would help).....and nothing showing any activity in the Windows task manager except the R5000 software. Thus the R5000 software is what is eating up the buffer.

So, do you think a failure occurred with a 1 second cap and what is seen in the screen shot. The software doesn't. How is sending it back going to solve these issues - mos tof which are in the software - not the actual unit itself?

HDTVFanAtic

12-13-04, 12:49 PM

Another 137 Gig file created overnight in the course of several hours.

Documents attached.

Remuxer log shows minutes flying by on the creates insteads of seconds and document its creating a file that it thinks is 10+ hours big.

Obviously, the captures are unusable when it does this.

Also notice the restarts in the logs.

Solutions?

HDTVFanAtic

12-13-04, 03:16 PM

Makes you wonder why others are private messaging me instead of emails. But I intend to continue to post until the bugs are fixed - as this is labelled the support forum.

And people HAVE THE RIGHT to see what is happening with this unit until it is fixed.

AND you want more, take a look here.

Not supposed to be able to record 2 events overlapping in schedule - in fact, scheduler isnt supposed to let that happen.

Notice, scheduled started at 2:12pm but another event that "couldnt happen" got scheduled for 2:45pm. You will notice the record log doesn't even note it, but as you can see, it is recording the 2nd event.

The first one was trashed.

And this can't happen, according to what they say.

If they would like me stop posting bugs, simply fix them.

jamesmil

12-13-04, 03:32 PM

Seems like this thread is breaking down quickly. Just to add my $.02:

No, I didn't have to sign any kind of NDA when my STB was modified (though I did have to prove I was an active subscriber to the service).

The modification has worked flawlessly for me on my Bell ExpressVu service. I've recordered hundreds of hours of material, all of which plays back cleanly in players like TheaterTek or MyHD, and works easily with transcoding software as well. In short, its been a complete joy to use.

That said, I do really hope they add DirectShow/WindowsMCE support soon, as a fully integrated PVR experience would really take this to the next level imo.

HDTVFanAtic

12-13-04, 03:42 PM

Isn't this the technical status forum?

If so, how is it breaking down?

Technical status and screen captures?

Its one thing for me to make statements if untrue - its another to post screen captures and logs from the system showing the breakdowns and bugs.

HookedOnTV

12-14-04, 12:57 PM

I didn't have to sign any NDA when I purchased the mod. Except for a few errors it really has worked wonderfully.

I still think you should send the box in. You say it must be the software yet the software is what we have in common. The actual stb and mod are the difference.

Alan Gouger

12-14-04, 05:00 PM

My system is working perfect. No glitches at all which is still happening with the other system.

Im using Direct.

I see some are having troubles. Sorry to hear that.
I guess both 169time and the 5000 HD are not perfect for everyone.

At least the owners for the 5000hd are on the board and their updates happen on a regular basis. The amount of work that has gone into this sense its first release has been very responsive and aggressive.

To those who are complaining can you imaging how upset you would be if you had to wait over a year for a single update. Thats what you get from someone else.
At least theres continuous effort being made to fix things and for the most part the majority of customers are experiencing perfect recording that playback on a wide variety of decoders.

ralphjb

12-14-04, 06:20 PM

I am sorry to hear others are having problems. I know how frustrating that can be.

I can report that my system works flawlessly. I have DirecTV with a DTC100.

Ron Tobin

12-14-04, 07:38 PM

I echo Alan's comments. I'm also a D* subscriber and have had zero problems with R5000 captures. The software is simple to use and the recordings are perfect.

It's clear that there are issues with E* streams, since that's where all of the reported problems are. The folks at Nextcom have been quick to address known issues with software revisions. I used to have the other system, and this is by far the superior solution for recording to a computer.

thurstonw

12-15-04, 12:35 AM

I am a 6000 user. I also have never signed an NDA...

With the exception of the reception/transmission/muxing problems on E*, my experience with the R5000 has been nearly perfect. With regards to HDTVFanAtic's problems, I don't know if he or his friends have contacted the company but I suggest one of them do so. His issues could very well be unique to his setup -just like the user who posted earlier with USB card problems. I had some minor issues getting up and running and I found Nextcom to be very responsive and helpful. I pretty much look to support forums as a place to get tips from other users and to trade thoughts, etc. But the first line of defense when I have a problem is to go straight to the guy who sold me the thing. Maybe you've all done that already, but it seems from the thread that you haven't...anyway, thats my 0.02.

TW

mkerdman

12-15-04, 04:09 AM

It is a know fact that currently, the E* stream is flawed at times.

To be clear I NEVER meant above to have the reader conclude that the 921 and 169Time solutions by definition themselves displayed fewer E* glitches than the R5000-HD.

Still, each of the E* HD recording system's handle errors differently.

Nextcom has stated for a good while now that they have been working on software that will not re-start or create multiple files, but record start to finish whatever E* is putting out- just like the 921 and 169Time products.

Still if there are severe errors in the E* stream, they will be visible as they would be in some form or another with 921 and 169 as well as with the R5000-HD. Currently that has specifically resulted in re-starting.

However, if Nextcom's new software's error logging can identify these errors as being present even in single file recordings, then the user may have the opportunity to re-capture the program at a later time.

R5000-HD

12-19-04, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by MichaelZ
...Something I would like to see improved upon is this:
I can save my currently scheduled jobs and reload them at will, I would like the software to use a standard schedule file like "MySchedule" and it would look for this file everytime when starting and autoload it. It would also be nice if adding or deleting scheduled items, it would update automatically, but I can live with it being save manually. If this change was made I can have my machine autoload the programs on reboot in case of power failure...

We'll look into rolling something like that into the next version. In the mean time you can manually put it into a command line in the startup folder:

1). Create a link in startup folder for the PVR app so it starts automatically when you boot.

2). Edit its properties (Properties->Shortcut tab): In the "Target" edit box you'll see the path to the executable in quotes. Add a space and put the name of the PVR file (e.g. "c:\Program Files\r5000hd\MySchedule.pvr") you want it to open with.

You'll still have to remember to save the pvr file when you make changes but at least it will autoload when re-booting.

-R

ralphjb

12-20-04, 10:15 AM

I did not see a reason to install this. If it's not broke....

I hear you on that one Brother - I have taken the same course.

Thought I would ask my monthly query -

R5000-HD, any prospect for the DirectX functiionality? Still hoping to integrate with SageTV.

Thanks!

HDTVFanAtic

12-20-04, 10:42 PM

Originally posted by thurstonw

But the first line of defense when I have a problem is to go straight to the guy who sold me the thing. Maybe you've all done that already, but it seems from the thread that you haven't...anyway, thats my 0.02.

TW

No problem...and their telephone number for tech support is?

D:\A Night Out With the Funk Brothers.ts size: 225600KB, length: 0h1m34s, failures: 0 Finished: 12/19/04 21:26:54
Remuxer Error: 5
Restarting stream as incremented filename
D:\A Night Out With the Funk Brothers1.ts size: 9902900KB, length:
1h8m5s, failures: 0 Finished: 12/19/04 22:35:01

D:\Eyes Wide Shut.ts size: 4521212KB, length: 0h31m5s, failures: 0 Finished: 12/20/04 01:22:24
Remuxer Error: 1
Restarting stream as incremented filename
D:\Eyes Wide Shut1.ts size: 19270752KB, length: 2h12m41s, failures: 0 Finished: 12/20/04 03:34:59

D:\Richard Pryor Live on the Sunset Strip.ts size: 7879456KB, length: 0h54m12s, failures: 0 Finished: 12/20/04 04:49:52
Remuxer Error: 5
Restarting stream as incremented filename
D:\Richard Pryor Live on the Sunset Strip1.ts size: 6705772KB, length: 0h46m6s, failures: 0 Finished: 12/20/04 05:36:01

D:\Anaconda.ts size: 9353752KB, length: 1h4m19s, failures: 0 Finished: 12/20/04 10:00:38
Remuxer Error: 1
Restarting stream as incremented filename
D:\Anaconda1.ts size: 4963012KB, length: 0h34m20s, failures: 0 Finished: 12/20/04 10:35:01

4 for 4 Bad
Eyes Wide Shut not on again for a while - Thus a wasted exercise in futility - every showing had a remuxer error.

Richard Pryor on again in a week - wonder if it will work that time? Despite 3 showings of Pink Floyd's The Wall, not a successful cap this run.

Anaconda - plays all the time, but still - what a waste of time.

HookedOnTV

12-21-04, 10:31 AM

E*

C:\Video\The Silence of the Lambs.ts size: 0KB, length: 0h0m0s, failures: 0 Finished: 12/06/04 08:04:37
C:\Video\Singles.ts size: 15506052KB, length: 1h46m36s, failures: 0 Finished: 12/07/04 09:46:01
C:\Video\Terminator 3 Rise of the Machines.ts size: 16974332KB, length: 1h56m42s, failures: 0 Finished: 12/10/04 22:26:01
C:\Video\The Last Samurai.ts size: 22801204KB, length: 2h36m46s, failures: 0 Finished: 12/12/04 21:36:01
C:\Video\Carnivale - Pick A Number.ts size: 8963652KB, length: 1h1m37s, failures: 0 Finished: 12/15/04 21:01:01
C:\Video\Love Actually.ts size: 20598972KB, length: 2h21m38s, failures: 0 Finished: 12/15/04 23:36:01
C:\Video\The Medallion.ts size: 13327132KB, length: 1h31m38s, failures: 0 Finished: 12/16/04 09:01:01
C:\Video\Face Off.ts size: 20603672KB, length: 2h21m39s, failures: 0 Finished: 12/20/04 23:16:01

Wizziwig

12-21-04, 06:38 PM

This thread was recently brought to my attention by an mpeg2repair user. Since I don't own this product, I can't offer much in the way of advice. But I would urge anyone with problems to isolate the cause by simultaneously recording their shows to a VCR, PVR, etc. I almost always do this with my 169time setup. The receiver's SD output is hooked into my Tivo so that I can always go back and check if the problem existed on the original signal.

Nobody here can do anything about issues at E*. They have been so erratic ever since the Olympics, that anything is possible. If you only record 1 or 2 shows a week like me, then you may never see a problem. It's interesting that someone posted no issues on weekends. That could simply mean that Dish engineers are not at work playing with the muxer/encoder settings or decided to limit their experimentation to off-peak hours during the week where fewer people would notice.

One of the R5000 samples sent to me had a truncated GOP, followed by a long PTS discontinuity. Ended up showing up as a long pause/jump during playback in VLC. There's no way to know 100% what caused the issue but I suspect it's a Dish problem. This sort of issue is not strictly an error so it's not reported by the current mpeg2repair version. It will be flagged (at least as a warning) in the next release. That will at least allow you to verify if you should keep the recording or try again. Sorry, no ETA at this time.

-Mark