i was waiting for him to give him his kidney...

What if all of this is a scam to get him a kidney?

Boone now looks like he was in Locke's dream

Lockes back gets damaged in surgery. He should of also told Boone what else saw in the dream

What did the person say on the radio to Boone? I listened to it a few times but couldn't make it out real well. It sounded sort of like, "There were no survivors of Flight 815". Whadda ya think?

AWESOME EPISODE!!
next week looks even better, NO MORE BREAKS ABC I NEED MY LOST

and we still don't know how Locke ended up in the chair.

Thought he was gonna wrap his bug around a telephone pole.

What Locke's Mom and Dad did to him was some of the cruelest stuff I've seen.

Originally posted by sdf777
Thought he was gonna wrap his bug around a telephone pole.

That's along the lines of what I was thinking.

It would have been much worse if they weren't even his mother and father :eek:

Is Locke "heading towards the light"?

Paul

Originally posted by pathew100
What did the person say on the radio to Boone? I listened to it a few times but couldn't make it out real well. It sounded sort of like, "There were no survivors of Flight 815". Whadda ya think?
That's what I heard and apparently what the captions said.

Originally posted by optivity
OK, I'll give you another scenario... Much to her chagrin.... Kate discovers that Jack & Sawyer have become "secret lovers!" Due to her unrequited love for both (either) (now I'm confused) and knowing she will never be able to share in their bond... a morosely depressed Kate throws herself from the highest cliff on the Island smashing her lithe (and up to this point "extremely hot") body on the rocks and surf below.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did anyone else catch that their flight number was 815 and when Locke's mother asked him where the footballs where his response was: "Regulation on aisle 8, nerfs on aisle 15"

So Locke wound up in the wheel chair because he rushed out of the hospital and had complications from the transplant surgery. He had a lot of blood on his shirt when he went to his dad's place.

Due to the blue vest you have to think he was an Wal-Mart associate. So when did he go from Wal-Mart to Hurly's box company as a collection specialist? DO to the change in hair I'd have to say several years. Only problem is that when he was old enough to have black hair Wal-Mart did not build stores like you saw in the background.

what in the hell

we have a play by play for every episode now? This thread is going blow up...oh wait, it already has.

Good episode

uncrules - good catch...

I hate to say it, but they have to go sci fi with this thing..there is no way there is a rational explanation for all of this. Psychics, dreams of things that have happened, etc etc..come on now..

Well, now we know why Jack's beard hasn't grown more than it has. Guess all the jokes and comments got to the writers!

Originally posted by uncrules
Did anyone else catch that their flight number was 815 and when Locke's mother asked him where the footballs where his response was: "Regulation on aisle 8, nerfs on aisle 15"

Man, you're good! I think that makes, what, 4 references to 815?

Gentlemen... in this "tasty," I mean "tasteful" image of Kate, we see she has been Lost on the island a "wee bit" too long...

http://home.nycap.rr.com/nessus/kate.JPG

Originally posted by sdf777
Thought he was gonna wrap his bug around a telephone pole.

I expected a car crash with another vehicle causing him to be wheelchair bound. What a great piece of imaginative writing, whoever came up with this weeks Locke storyline.

You think Charley might be pleased with what they found on the plane?? :)

Originally posted by labmansid
You think Charley might be pleased with what they found on the plane?? :)

Could be tempting huh? --- a lifetime supply!

It never was really indicated that Locke lost use of his legs because of anything that happened in this episode. May have to wait until another backstory. I bet he REALLY wants to open that hatch now, though!

Is the hatch supposed to be opened or stay closed?

Is the island attempting to stop Locke from opening the hatch?

Or maybe island responds in kind: Attack the hatch and you get attacked.

Paul

Locke was obviously a much younger man in the back story, and also much more naive and with no obvious survival skills. So it must have been quite awhile ago.

And yet didn't he say he had only been living with his disability for 4 years?

So I guess we can't expect something in the back story to have immediately caused his disability.

- Tom

Originally posted by Carl Holt
Due to the blue vest you have to think he was an Wal-Mart associate.

I was thinking the building looked more like a Costco, but whatever.

So the whole kidney dialysis machine thing was a setup? I was sure it was going to turn out that it wasn't his dad at all after a stunt like that.

I don't even have a guess at what's inside the hatch. I was wondering last episode why they don't try digging around it. Apparently now they've tried that.

Great episode.

Any chance the boy talking to Locke in the toy store was Boone? Sure reminded me of him. Not sure how long ago it was supposed to take place, but Locke looks made up to be a lot younger too.

Originally posted by sayanythingrock
the mouse trap game has to have a symbolism

Yep, and Locke was the mouse that got caught.

And yet didn't he say he had only been living with his disability for 4 years?

So I guess we can't expect something in the back story to have immediately caused his disability.


Wow, nice catch.

I lost about 5 minutes of the show due to a "severe" weather alert. Just when Locke brings Boone back to the camp for treatment, the "weatherman" cut in. After his dramatic warning about the fact it was about to rain (wooooo!) the show came back on with Locke in a hospital bed talking to his mother again! I surmised that obviously his "father" had been scamming him, but was just wondering what else happened in the time I was being enlightened by our weather guy.

Thanks...

If we are to assume the "priest" was on the drug plane, how did he wind up in the trees if the plane itself was intact? And why does it seem that everything seems to wind up in trees- the Oceanic pilot, Charlie's guitar, the drug plane, priest, etc.?

Also judging from the previews for next week, it looks like Boone is a goner.

Originally posted by auburn97
Also judging from the previews for next week, it looks like Boone is a goner.
You can't trust the previews, they have proven to be misleading. I was thinking with those nasty wounds he may be in need of the plane's cargo. :(

Originally posted by trbarry
Locke was obviously a much younger man in the back story, and also much more naive and with no obvious survival skills. So it must have been quite awhile ago.

And yet didn't he say he had only been living with his disability for 4 years?

So I guess we can't expect something in the back story to have immediately caused his disability.

- Tom Not necessarily. Remember how set he was on going on walkabout despite being in the chair. He may have been studying up during the time he lost the use of his legs. Sometimes a goal like that can be real motivation to make the most of a situation. He may have aged quite quickly once he lost the use of his legs (stress can be a real factor in the aging process).

In addition, he was a Webelo scout, so he undoubtably had some basic camping, hiking, orienteering and general survival skills - probably more than others in the troop (remember, he said he wasn't a popular kid, so scouts may have been a place for him to shine where he couldn't in other situations).

Originally posted by auburn97
If we are to assume the "priest" was on the drug plane, how did he wind up in the trees if the plane itself was intact? And why does it seem that everything seems to wind up in trees- the Oceanic pilot, Charlie's guitar, the drug plane, priest, etc.?

Also judging from the previews for next week, it looks like Boone is a goner.

More importantly, what was a short range plane out of ANGOLA (maps of Africa and all) doing crashed on a supposedly Pacific Island? Interesting stuff.

I think the hatch can only be opened from the INSIDE....(cue spooky music).

Originally posted by NetworkTV
In addition, he was a Webelo scout, so he undoubtably had some basic camping, hiking, orienteering and general survival skills - probably more than others in the troop (remember, he said he wasn't a popular kid, so scouts may have been a place for him to shine where he couldn't in other situations).

But when he was talking to Sayid about scouts, the only activities he mentioned were bird identification and knot-tying, sort of as if he was on the sideline all the time and only doing non-physical activities.

Also, where did he get another compass? He gave his to Sayid in a previous episode.

I'm surprised more hasn't been made of the response to Boone's distress call, that "There were no survivors of Oceanic Flight 815" or something to that effect.

Just thinking, this must be a great show to write for. Liberating, anything is possible, so unstandardized, no office, any character can vanish, and connections keep coming around in circles.

Originally posted by auburn97
If we are to assume the "priest" was on the drug plane, how did he wind up in the trees if the plane itself was intact? And why does it seem that everything seems to wind up in trees- the Oceanic pilot, Charlie's guitar, the drug plane, priest, etc.?

I think when locke pulled him out of the tree he used, what looked to be rope, perhaps from a parachute?

Originally posted by pathew100
What did the person say on the radio to Boone? I listened to it a few times but couldn't make it out real well. It sounded sort of like, "There were no survivors of Flight 815". Whadda ya think?

I think he said something like "There were no survivors of Flight 815" or "there is no Ocenanic Flight 815" - but my question is how would the person on the other end of that radio know right away about flight 815? Who has that info on hand like that?

Originally posted by uncrules
Did anyone else catch that their flight number was 815 and when Locke's mother asked him where the footballs where his response was: "Regulation on aisle 8, nerfs on aisle 15"

WOW! Way to pay attention to the deatails - I missed that. Also remember the evil numbers: 4 815 162342

Originally posted by Carl Holt
So Locke wound up in the wheel chair because he rushed out of the hospital and had complications from the transplant surgery. He had a lot of blood on his shirt when he went to his dad's place.

I thought he was going to try to drive through the gate at his dad's house and become paralyzed in the accident or, as others have said, crash his bug when driving away. But as it stands right now there is still no way to know for sure how he ended up in the wheelchair - to me it seems this still didn't happen for a few more years based on his younger looking age in this back story.

And finally...I loved the light from the hatch at the end - awesome!

so, who turned the light on inside the hatch ? Rousseau ? A survivor from the drug plane ?

This episode makes me more certain that Locke's condition is/was psychosomatic. He did say that he had been in a wheelchair for only four years and he looked a lot more than 4 years younger in the back story and the Beetle looked new - though Locke may be the anal type who keeps his car looking new. (Did anyone notice the model year of the Jaguar in Cooper's driveway?). Did anyone note the number on the mailbox outside Cooper's house? I just thought of that :-)

Wasn't the plane in Locke's dream crashing on fire yet the "real" plane was unburned?

Let's hope that Charlie doesn't find the drugged stuffed Virgins - was that a reference to "Maria Full of Grace"?

A good episode - loved the sub-plot of Sawyer's headaches and Jack getting him to admit to an STD in front of Kate - very nice touch :-))

I thought for a second that Sawyer may be suffering from an untreated case of Sphyllis or something. Too funny.

In the exterior shot of the store where Locke was working (when his mother was stalking him out in the parking lot), the logo on the wall was blurry, but it was definitely a Costco.

I love how the writers kept stringing us along expecting Locke to lose the use of his legs at any given moment... he was hit by a car while trying to get to his mother, there was the possibility of a hunting accident, when he got out of the hospital bed, when he got out of the car at the end and walked to the gate... Any one of those moments could have ended with him in a wheelchair. Great stuff.

The bit he dreamed with Boone standing there all bloody with his eyes clouded over and his mother pointing in the background was probably one of the creepiest moments on the show to date (and that's saying something).

Was it me or did it seem like Jack was going out of his way to try to ease tensions between him and Sawyer? (aside from the whole "have you ever" questions) When Sawyer was trying on glasses my Partner commented that he the glasses that work for him are probably going to be the ones that look the best on him as well... guess again!

I can't believe I missed yet another 8 15 reference!

What a great episode... it had been off so long I forgot how amazing it was.

Originally posted by Andrew_J_M
This episode makes me more certain that Locke's condition is/was psychosomatic. He did say that he had been in a wheelchair for only four years and he looked a lot more than 4 years younger in the back story and the Beetle looked new - though Locke may be the anal type who keeps his car looking new. (Did anyone notice the model year of the Jaguar in Cooper's driveway?). Did anyone note the number on the mailbox outside Cooper's house? I just thought of that :-)

Wasn't the plane in Locke's dream crashing on fire yet the "real" plane was unburned?

Let's hope that Charlie doesn't find the drugged stuffed Virgins - was that a reference to "Maria Full of Grace"?

A good episode - loved the sub-plot of Sawyer's headaches and Jack getting him to admit to an STD in front of Kate - very nice touch :-)) The more we find out about Locke, the more 'decent' an individual he appears to be... He was understandably upset as he sped away from his father's home... I believe his confinement to a wheelchair will be caused by an accident or physical ailment, not a psychological issue... Locke seems to be too 'sane.'

A plane full of heroin... Poor Charlie... I'm not too optimistic about his future.

Boon's confession to Locke regarding his nanny... between that and his relationship with Shannon, I'm surprised his character is as 'brave' as last night's portrayal indicates.

Did anyone catch the conversation during Bonne's radio contact while on the plane? Anything 'significant" from that?

Originally posted by Flyer1
I thought he was going to try to drive through the gate at his dad's house and become paralyzed in the accident or, as others have said, crash his bug when driving away. But as it stands right now there is still no way to know for sure how he ended up in the wheelchair - to me it seems this still didn't happen for a few more years based on his younger looking age in this back story.


With so many characters directly or indirectly responsible for someone's death, I wouldn't be surprised if Locke got his revenge by killing his dad and perhaps he was injured resulting in the loss of use of his legs.

Not that far fetched since he did reply to Boone that how he ended up in the wheelchair was "not important".

Originally posted by Flyer1
I think he said something like "There were no survivors of Flight 815" or "there is no Ocenanic Flight 815" - but my question is how would the person on the other end of that radio know right away about flight 815? Who has that info on hand like that?


An avid fan of LOST perhaps? :)

I seem to miss a lot, but the plane in the dream was red and the one they found was yellow. Could there be another one?

Originally posted by Andrew_J_M
(Did anyone notice the model year of the Jaguar in Cooper's driveway?). Did anyone note the number on the mailbox outside Cooper's house? I just thought of that :-)



There's a pretty clear shot of the license plate of the Jag, I'll go back and look at it again and post it if it's relavent.

Originally posted by Iteki
More importantly, what was a short range plane out of ANGOLA (maps of Africa and all) doing crashed on a supposedly Pacific Island? Interesting stuff.



This goes back to my analysis of the "numbers" some time back. According to my analysis the "numbers" are map coordinates and they are really in a river near Africa not in the Ocean. This episode has made my kooky theory less kooky.

Originally posted by mollerup
I lost about 5 minutes of the show due to a "severe" weather alert. Just when Locke brings Boone back to the camp for treatment, the "weatherman" cut in. After his dramatic warning about the fact it was about to rain (wooooo!) the show came back on with Locke in a hospital bed talking to his mother again! I surmised that obviously his "father" had been scamming him, but was just wondering what else happened in the time I was being enlightened by our weather guy.


Can someone help us out here please?

Originally posted by Jimbo Moran
This goes back to my analysis of the "numbers" some time back. According to my analysis the "numbers" are map coordinates and they are really in a river near Africa not in the Ocean. This episode has made my kooky theory less kooky.

I don't know of any river that has sea urchins and major tidal issues like their location on Lost. Madagascar, maybe, but anything that close to civilization is going to be used by the surrounding population somehow.

Reminded me of The Shining - "Her-r-r-r-r-re's Locke"

The bit he dreamed with Boone standing there all bloody with his eyes clouded over and his mother pointing in the background was probably one of the creepiest moments on the show to date (and that's saying something).

via Closed Captioning:

From the other end of the radio conversation -

"There were no survivors of Oceanic Flight 815"

Originally posted by uncrules
Did anyone else catch that their flight number was 815 and when Locke's mother asked him where the footballs where his response was: "Regulation on aisle 8, nerfs on aisle 15"

I can't believe I missed that one. I remember thinking to myself at the time, "Why would regulation and nerf footballs be 7 aisles apart?" Duh...

Originally posted by auburn97
I don't know of any river that has sea urchins and major tidal issues like their location on Lost. Madagascar, maybe, but anything that close to civilization is going to be used by the surrounding population somehow.

There are plenty of plausible solutions to the Nigeria puddle jumper issue, one of which is: The plane was jumping from island to island and getting fuel along the way ... there are plenty of populated islands in the SoPac.

Originally posted by mx6bfast
Can someone help us out here please?

* Locke tells Jack that Boone fell off a cliff while they were hunting.

* Boone has a bad chest wound

* Jack asks Locke exactly what happened, but when he looks up, Locke is gone.

--- cut to Locke's backstory - Locke in hospital bed.

* Locke asks nurse where his father is since the bed next to him is empty. The nurse says she didn't realize he was John's father and "He checked out this afternoon and is at home under private care".

* Locke says that makes no sense. Did he leave me a message - Nurse says no, you just need to relax.

* Mother enters and says "It was his idea.........I'm sorry John........... I needed some money.

Locke: You told me I didn't have a Father.

Mother: He said that was the only way that you'd give it to him. It had to be your idea...........He told me where to find you, he asked me to go see you......I wanted to see you.

Locke: This can't be happening, this is some misunderstanding....this can't happen to me....he wouldn't do this to me .....HE WOULDN'T DO THIS TO ME!

Locke in VW bug approaches gate to his father's house................................

Originally posted by mx6bfast
Can someone help us out here please?

Originally posted by mollerup
I lost about 5 minutes of the show due to a "severe" weather alert. Just when Locke brings Boone back to the camp for treatment, the "weatherman" cut in. After his dramatic warning about the fact it was about to rain (wooooo!) the show came back on with Locke in a hospital bed talking to his mother again! I surmised that obviously his "father" had been scamming him, but was just wondering what else happened in the time I was being enlightened by our weather guy.

After Locke brought Boon back Jack asked Locke to tell him exactly what happened but Locke was gone. As Jack started yelling for Locke we flash back to Locke in the hospital bed asking where his father was. It was then his mother came in and told him that this was all his fathers idea which upset Locke really badly. Then he went to confront his father...

i don't think the plane in the dream was red ...

and regarding it being on fire ... it looked to me like just the engine was smoking.

Dang CPanther! Are you watching it right now!? :p

Rod Serling would absolutely LOVE this show.

I don't think they're on any real island that you can find on a map, but in alternate universe type of place. Something like you'd find in a Twilight Zone episode, or one of Stephen King's Gunslinger books.

I'm still pissed that here in Atlanta ABC didn't broadcast in HD all night! :mad:

Thanks for the info guys. We happened to be "that guy" this time.

Originally posted by rdwalt
Dang CPanther! Are you watching it right now!? :p

No, that's just the parts I remember from last night.

jk.... ;) It's the miracle of Tivo.

Originally posted by DigitalDan
I seem to miss a lot, but the plane in the dream was red and the one they found was yellow. Could there be another one?

Same plane in dream and reality - kind of an orange-ish/yellow.

When did Locke acquire the scar by his right eye? I don't think he had it at Costco; he does have it on the island -- did he have it at the box company? Do we already know how and when he got it and I've forgotten?

Originally posted by TheTimm
When did Locke acquire the scar by his right eye? I don't think he had it at Costco; he does have it on the island -- did he have it at the box company? Do we already know how and when he got it and I've forgotten?
I'm not positive but I think he got the gash during the crash. Seems it was bleeding in the first episode, IIRC.

I can't wait for the Locke backstory where he gets his Kidney back. ;)

Using the "numbers" as coordinates place a location here:
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searchtype=address&formtype=latlong&latlongtype=degrees&latdeg=4&latmin=8&latsec=15&longdeg=16&longmin=23&longsec=42

I know who the dead "priest" was with the gun and is presumed to be from the plane. Note we are guessing he was on the plane due to proximity but do not know that he was.

The fact that dead person wore priests clothing, packed a gun, and appears to have been on a plane full of drugs only points to one person ...

Father Guido Sadducee (forgive the spelling). He must have finally gotten our of prison after trying to smuggle drugs into Japan. If you remember Father Guido did this in the mid 1980's shortly after Paul McCartney was arrested in Japan for drug possession. The good father wanted to get an exclusive interview with Paul so he took drugs with him hoping to be caught and placed in the same cell. Unfortunately for him, Paul was released just before Guido's arrest and the Japanese did not appreciate Fathers Guido's stunt.


I thought that Terry O'Quinn (Locke) did an excellent job play a much younger self. They way he acted while talking to his father and the security guard came across as if he were in his late teens or maybe early 20's. He had the kind of naivete that I see so often in high-school and college students, that spark of intelligence mixed with a lack of real world experiences. He did so well it makes me think O'Quinn has older kids of his own.

O'Quinn did such a good job that it thows you. We know it is him playing the part and you expect someone much older. He looks younger and acts younger, which makes you almost forget O'Quinn's real age. It also played well into the story. In his flashback / backstory Locke remembers himself as a young man but his memory also throws in maturity that he learned later in life.

Unlike Jake who, IMHO, acts very imature for a doctor.

Very well acted.

As pointed out in the other thread I read on Lost, two more big points....

1. The mother's birthdate from her driver's license is October 15. In the Roman calendar, October (octo=8) was originally the 8th month. Hence, another 815.

2. The mother's admission papers to the mental hospital show that she was at the Santa Rosa Mental Health Institute....the same place Hurley visited Lenny.

Originally posted by Flyer1
I think he said something like "There were no survivors of Flight 815" or "there is no Ocenanic Flight 815" - but my question is how would the person on the other end of that radio know right away about flight 815? Who has that info on hand like that?

I think that's pretty plausible. It's only been 4 weeks since the crash right? It would have been a major news story. And especially if the person on the other end was a pilot or worked in aviation. For example, in 1996 TWA Flight 800 crashed and had no survivors. If someone came on the radio 4 weeks after the crash and said we are survivors of Flight 800 a pilot, policeman, fireman, or nearly anyone's first response would be, "What? There weren't any survivors on Flight 800."

The episode title: Deus ex Machina
...from the Guide to Literary Terms...

Deus ex Machina
In some ancient Greek drama, an apparently insoluble crisis was solved by the intervention of a god, often brought on stage by an elaborate piece of equipment. This "god from the machine" was literally a deus ex machina.
Few modern works feature deities suspended by wires from the ceiling, but the term deus ex machina is still used for cases where an author uses some improbable (and often clumsy) plot device to work his or her way out of a difficult situation. When the cavalry comes charging over the hill or when the impoverished hero is relieved by an unexpected inheritance, it's often called a deus ex machina.

I would think that the scar came from some wreck. It is possible that Locke tries to commit suicide after leaving his father's house. He looked pretty strung out. If he gets in a wreck by driving over a cliff or something, that would explain the wheelchair, his scar and his reluctance to mention why he was in a wheelchair.

[out on a limb]It also seems like he has undergone some sort of transformation of spirit between his earlier life in the second flashback and his later life in the first flashback, which may have happened when he came to terms with the grief and betrayal. The only time he has really gotten upset aside from what his father did to him is when somebody tells him what he can't do. Even on the island, he is very calm about mentioning that his father wasn't very cool (in a discussion with Walt).

You know, you might be correct about the scar in the plane wreck. I will have to watch that again.

Good catch with Locke's mother on the mental institution. That would make two connections between Locke and Hurley so far...

Originally posted by shadowbox
I think that's pretty plausible. It's only been 4 weeks since the crash right?

I doubt its been only 4 weeks. I read in an earlier post that each episode=roughly 3 days. I believe there have been 19 or 20 episodes so far which works out to about 2 months since the crash. Also, on the ABC Lost website there is an entry in the diary on Day 33 which refers to the time Shannon (I think its her writing) followed Boone and Locke to the woods and that was a few eps back.

Locke did make a statement in last night's ep about how he'd see things differently only 4 weeks ago. I assumed he was referring to the day of the crash and it didn't make sense to me because I was sure about 2 months had passed by now. But then I figured it didn't necessarily refer to the day they crashed.

Anyone have any idea how long they've been there?

The cut was fresh after the crash.
http://www.lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season1/1x04-walkabout/normal_walkabout011.jpg

How great would it be to have a DVD of this series with the writers talking over the episodes explaining what everything meant and didn't mean? And I'm not talking about the season 1 DVD coming out in September, I'm talking about after the series is over, when there is nothing to "give away". That would be so interesting to hear what they were thinking, and where they changed their minds mid-stream, and whether Ethan's breathing was an accident or not, etc..etc...

Originally posted by hefe
As pointed out in the other thread I read on Lost, two more big points....

1. The mother's birthdate from her driver's license is October 15. In the Roman calendar, October (octo=8) was originally the 8th month. Hence, another 815.

2. The mother's admission papers to the mental hospital show that she was at the Santa Rosa Mental Health Institute....the same place Hurley visited Lenny.

Holy Crap!! The writers on this show really like the little details!

Originally posted by shadowbox
I think that's pretty plausible. It's only been 4 weeks since the crash right? It would have been a major news story. And especially if the person on the other end was a pilot or worked in aviation. For example, in 1996 TWA Flight 800 crashed and had no survivors. If someone came on the radio 4 weeks after the crash and said we are survivors of Flight 800 a pilot, policeman, fireman, or nearly anyone's first response would be, "What? There weren't any survivors on Flight 800."

For some reason I thought it was 8 weeks (2 months), but either way your point is well taken. I guess it would be easy to remember a flight like the ocenanic 415, especially if the plane wreckage and bodies were never recovered, then one would assume that there were no survivors

How is the voice on the radio able to conclusively know and say that there were no survivors from flight 815? I mean, in order to know that then the wreckage had to have been found and searched... along with the surrounding area.

But I guess if the plane dissapeared and was never found then they'd all be presumed dead???

I heard an interview with one of the co-creators the other day... he said each episode is 1 or 2 days.

Originally posted by Dynot
....Locke did make a statement in last night's ep about how he'd see things differently only 4 weeks ago. I assumed he was referring to the day of the crash and it didn't make sense to me because I was sure about 2 months had passed by now. But then I figured it didn't necessarily refer to the day they crashed.
I assumed he meant after "looking into the eye of the Island".

Originally posted by hefe
The cut was fresh after the crash.


I guess someone works from home, or doesn't work, or has a Tivo in their office ;)

lost-media.com is your friend... :)

Originally posted by hefe
Using the "numbers" as coordinates place a location here:

Oh No!! It's worse then any of us thought......they're in Kansas!! :D

Originally posted by Flyer1
Oh No!! It's worse then any of us thought......they're in Kansas!! :D

Oops. Sorry, I screwed up the link. Let me try again:
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searchtype=address&formtype=latlong&latlongtype=degrees&latdeg=4&latmin=8&latsec=15&longdeg=16&longmin=23&longsec=42

The good news from last night is that Locke apparently is willing to talk about the island's power and his visions. He isn't some all-knowing holder of all secrets that would be actively discouraging some of these pre-crash links from coming to light.

Since they're stuck on a damn island in the middle of nowhere - maybe they'll talk to each other and discover some of these links. Some may be kept secret (Sawyer/Jack's Dad), but others are (at least they seem so now) somewhat benign like Locke's connections to Hurley.

They can't really have a group heart-to-heart with everyone around the campfire because that would open the floodgates. But they could have a single person (or maybe two people) spot a couple connections then try to piece together as many as possible. That would at least provide some instant gratification without ruining the overall pace of the show.

Originally posted by hefe
Oops. Sorry, I screwed up the link. Let me try again:

Whew! That's better then Kansas ;)

Well, CPanther95... I think it's good that he's talking about it, but I have a feeling that SINCE he's talking about it with Boone, that Boone is going to die.

It would be frustrating for Boone to die especially, though, since he's the only one who knew that the radio in the airplane had a response. I don't think that Locke could hear that on the ground (unless Boone was shouting - which he wasn't)...

Originally posted by CPanther95
The good news from last night is that Locke apparently is willing to talk about the island's power and his visions.

Well he appears to be keeping the plane a secret - when Jack asked what happened to Boone he lied and said he fell off a cliff. I'm assuming Jack will be able to tell that the wounds on Boone's chest were not made from a fall but by some kind of metal object(s).

Was anyone else screaming at them to stabilize the plane before climbing in it?

How many people thought that Locke's mom was telling the truth, and that it explained alot of things when she said, "You were immaculately conceived."


Or was it just me? :rolleyes: :p

Did someone ask what symbols were on Boone's shirt?

It's a set of three Chinese symbols written vertically. From top to bottom, "8", "10", and "4". All together, it usually means "84", but who knows. :)

Hong.

I thought that was a bit far fetched for immaculate conception. Locke is the second coming and Claire's baby is what, little Damien? Or vice-versa?

I thought it looked like Locke noticed the sound of the radio turning on, but I find it hard to believe that he would have heard it from that far away.

I don't think Locke is keeping the plane a secret as much as he is wanting to keep the hatch a secret. When Boone mentioned telling everyone about the hatch, Locke popped him on the head with the butt of his knife.

I did like the comment by Boone when he asked Locke if he was playing around with the funky paste he put on his head.

Originally posted by mdesmarais
Was anyone else screaming at them to stabilize the plane before climbing in it?

I think if they had gotten Michael, who is an engineer, he would have been able to stabilize the plane by supporting it from underneath. Then they would still have a functioning radio.

Originally posted by PJO1966
I think if they had gotten Michael, who is an engineer, he would have been able to stabilize the plane by supporting it from underneath. Then they would still have a functioning radio.

I'd imagine Sayid could fix it as long as the battery is still good. He's a handy fellow. But of course that's only if Locke FRICKING TELLS THE TRUTH about it for once. :-)

I'm not bringing religion into this, just clarifying what stuff means...
As far as immaculate conception goes, it means that your were conceived without original sin. Mary was immaculately conceived, Jesus, who was born of Mary was conceived some other way.

- bottom line is that immaculate conception does not mean no daddy.

So, did the writers screw-up, or was it just a way to show us Locke's Mom wasn't the sharpest knife in the draw.

Q. Why hasn't Hurley made a bigger deal about the fact that there is a radio tower on the island?

I would think after his little visit with Rouseau(sp?) that his next hike would be up to the tower to find out more about his numbers or getting out of there. Locke has his motives for keeping the hatch and the plane a secret, but I would think Hurley would be jumping at the chance to share that info with someone else.

Originally posted by Mr.Poindexter
I thought that was a bit far fetched for immaculate conception. Locke is the second coming and Claire's baby is what, little Damien? Or vice-versa?

There are possible religious based connections here and there. The reference to an Immaculate Conception (which was actually misused by the character, she should have referred to the virgin birth, which is different) directly invokes Mary, and then on the island, we see that statues of Mary are used to carry smuggled heroin.

This also ties in 2 things about Charlie. We know he was a religious Catholic from his backstory, and he was strung out on the same stuff these statues were carrying.

Also, remember that Jack's father's name was Christian Shepard.

Originally posted by Blaurv
Q. Why hasn't Hurley made a bigger deal about the fact that there is a radio tower on the island?

I would think after his little visit with Rouseau(sp?) that his next hike would be up to the tower to find out more about his numbers or getting out of there. Locke has his motives for keeping the hatch and the plane a secret, but I would think Hurley would be jumping at the chance to share that info with someone else.

I think that is simply a constraint of the storytelling style. To get deep into one story or character, you have to concentrate on one thing at a time. It doesn't say anything about the characters being smart or not. This episode was almost entirely without Hurley, Sayid, Charlie, Claire, Shannon, Walt. It's just the focused nature of the episodes.

Originally posted by Mr.Poindexter
It also seems like he has undergone some sort of transformation of spirit

I would think that being able to walk on your own 2 feet after being stuck in a wheelchair for 4 years would do that for you

Originally posted by Blaurv
Q. Why hasn't Hurley made a bigger deal about the fact that there is a radio tower on the island?

I would think after his little visit with Rouseau(sp?) that his next hike would be up to the tower to find out more about his numbers or getting out of there. Locke has his motives for keeping the hatch and the plane a secret, but I would think Hurley would be jumping at the chance to share that info with someone else.

I don't even remember seeing Hurley during the episode last night. Maybe he was off wandering ?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by NorthJersey
[B]I don't even remember seeing Hurley during the

I don't think Charlie, Claire or Shannon were on at all last night, either.

Originally posted by NorthJersey
I don't even remember seeing Hurley during the episode last night. Maybe he was off wandering ?

Hurley's only line was about Sawyers new glasses - don't remember exactly, but something about Harry Potter meets a steam roller.

Hurley only had that one brief scene where he made the Harry Potter comment about Sawyer's glasses.

*edit* damn two-finger typing!! too slow on the draw...

Originally posted by danc8379
[QUOTE]Originally posted by NorthJersey
[B]I don't even remember seeing Hurley during the

I don't think Charlie, Claire or Shannon were on at all last night, either.

No, but we saw some "red shirts", the people who Sawyer yelled at to be quiet, never seen them before..

I thought the Immaculate Conception involved Franco Harris ;)

Originally posted by PJO1966
I think if they had gotten Michael, who is an engineer, he would have been able to stabilize the plane by supporting it from underneath. Then they would still have a functioning radio.

It might still be working, probably need a new antenna as the plane ended up on it's backside...

The hatch really intrigues me, there is no question there is some sort of power source connected to it.

Maybe the whole island is an alien space ship disguised as an island..:eek:

I think it was mentioned before, but I agree that Locke seems to be the only one that is interested in what the island is all about. The rest of them act like they are a camping trip.

I'm still curious about the "There were no survivors" comment. That would seem to indicate that they "knew" there were no survivors from some anecdotal evidence - like plane wreckage or something that would indicate that the plane broke up at 35,000 feet. Otherwise as a plane that simply vanished, the thinking would be that it was missing and a crash may have been likely, but not to the extent that you'd say "no survivors".

I'd think the first response regarding a "missing" plane would be "Where are you?"

Originally posted by keenan
Maybe the whole island is an alien space ship disguised as an island..:eek:

I share your thoughts. I think the episode title, deus ex machina, shows just how much control over events eminates from the hatch. I mean, Locke pleaded with it and it responded! The ribbed sides you could see in the excavation is a whole new perspective on what it could be. What else is it going to give them? It also seems Locke has regained some of the use of his legs since Boone fell.

Oh, and when I saw Boone's wounds, it made me cringe to think how Locke was carrying him - over his shoulder on Boone's stomach!

Yeah wouldn't it make more sense to run back and get help than carry an injured guy, when your legs are sketchy?

Unless Locke still wants to hide the plane and the hatch from others.

Originally posted by keenan
It might still be working, probably need a new antenna as the plane ended up on it's backside...

The hatch really intrigues me, there is no question there is some sort of power source connected to it.

Maybe the whole island is an alien space ship disguised as an island..:eek:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4977857#post4977857

For those Steven King fans...

Originally posted by CPanther95
I'm still curious about the "There were no survivors" comment. That would seem to indicate that they "knew" there were no survivors from some anecdotal evidence - like plane wreckage or something that would indicate that the plane broke up at 35,000 feet. Otherwise as a plane that simply vanished, the thinking would be that it was missing and a crash may have been likely, but not to the extent that you'd say "no survivors".

I'd think the first response regarding a "missing" plane would be "Where are you?"
I'm sure he did "know" that there weren't any survivors. The source of that knowledge may have been that the official word was put out by whatever authorities that the plane and all its passengers were lost and presumed dead. Maybe bits of the plane were found somewhere. Maybe the search was just called off. After 4-6 weeks, if you find nothing in the open ocean, what else do you do except presume that all are dead? Of course, they were wrong, but it was reasonable for them to believe that there were no survivors.

Originally posted by wco81
Yeah wouldn't it make more sense to run back and get help than carry an injured guy, when your legs are sketchy?

Unless Locke still wants to hide the plane and the hatch from others.

Seemed to me his legs were just about useless when the plane fell. I doubt it was just resolve that got Locke up and able to carry Boone - and then traverse the couple miles (IIRC) back to the hatch after delivering Boone. It's the Island!

The plane going down looked like a similar model to the toy Kate has.

Does the hatch have no handle on the outside to open, or are they trying to open the inside of the hatch?

There is no external handle

Why doesn't Locke try to turn the internal handle with his mind? Stranger things have happened.

Originally posted by ftboomer
The plane going down looked like a similar model to the toy Kate has.

No, I thought that might be the case until I checked...

http://www.lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season1/1x12-thecase/normal_thecase825.jpg

http://www.lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season1/1x19-deus/normal_deux404.jpg

I totally agree that if a commercial JET goes down over an ocean somewhere and nothing is found for at least 4 weeks the assumption would be no survivors. Nothing unusual in the response to me.

Can somebody check back to see if this plane is indeed the same kind as Kate's toy? Oh Lost screen cap gods present pictures!

Whoa, ask and ye shall receive, this thread is scary...

I feel a real connection with the thread.

The thread will tell me what to do next. Have faith in the thread.
;);)

Originally posted by bronowyn
I feel a real connection with the thread.

The thread will tell me what to do next. Have faith in the thread.
;);)

Yes, have faith...next you must send $100 via Paypal to...me!

Hmm, responding to an earlier post, in the flashbacks Locke did not seem anywhere near 20 in age to me. Mid 30's maybe. I don't think his naivete was indicative of being young as much as what may have just been his somewhat simple "pre-island" self perhaps. As the island begins to take away his walking ability he also seems to regress mentally as well, almost throwing a tantrum at one point which makes Boone question his overall state, not just his legs. Clearly the island was not happy with his actions ;).

ron

OK, I just watched selected parts again during lunch.

Emily Locke's driver's license - Expires 3-20-94
Admittance sheet from the mental hospital (same one Hurley was at)
Admit or release (can't make out) 5-12-95 10:22 (doesn't specify AM or PM)
Previous Admittance: 10-5-92
Previous Admittance #: 564815
Self Admit
SSA# 584-243-15 (not accurate for a SS#, but it has some interesting numbers)

As for Locke's VW, there were no tags on the plate. The Jag in Locke's dad's driveway didn't have mystic numbers (nor did Locke's VW) but it looked like a yellow tag on the plate. I don't know if that would indicate the year or just be something that was in the background they didn't think about.

Certainly, this takes place after 1995 but before 2000/1 (when he would be in a wheelchair). Where between those two dates is still uknown, but if it was 1995, then that would be 9 or 10 years ago, which would make it possible that the kid in Costco was Boone. Still, I don't see that as being a major connection.

The foreshadowing with the mousetrap game was very good.

maybe the guy on the radio said there were no survivors because the other half of the plane was found with a bunch of dead bodies floating in the ocean or something?

Also this cannot be a "real" island. It has to be aliens or alt. universe or along those lines.

Originally posted by R11
Hmm, responding to an earlier post, in the flashbacks Locke did not seem anywhere near 20 in age to me. Mid 30's maybe. I don't think his naivete was indicative of being young as much as what may have just been his somewhat simple "pre-island" self perhaps. As the island begins to take away his walking ability he also seems to regress mentally as well, almost throwing a tantrum at one point which makes Boone question his overall state, not just his legs. Clearly the island was not happy with his actions ;).

ron

He was older than that. Assuming that Lost takes place in the present day, the flashback had to occur somewhere between 1992 (the date the mother was admitted to the mental hospital which was on the form the detective had) and 2000 which was when Locke was paralyzed. (He said he had been dealing with his condition for 4 years.)

So the flashback was somewhere in the range from 12 years ago to 4 years ago.

How old does it seem Locke is now? mid-40's? Let's say he's 45. The flashback occurred when he was somewhere between 33 and 41.

Also, the birthdate of his mother was 10-15-1940 on her license. Assuming Locke is about 45, his year of birth is around 1960, putting his mother at about 20 years old. Seems reasonable.

Where am I going with this? I've lost track. Now I'm just rambling... :)

Originally posted by Mr.Poindexter
OK, I just watched selected parts again during lunch.

Emily Locke's driver's license - Expires 3-20-94
Admittance sheet from the mental hospital (same one Hurley was at)
Admit or release (can't make out) 5-12-95 10:22 (doesn't specify AM or PM)
I was typing when you posted this. :D

I didn't see 1995, the pic I was looking at was blurry up there. So add 3 years to my numbers.

Originally posted by CPanther95
I'm still curious about the "There were no survivors" comment. That would seem to indicate that they "knew" there were no survivors from some anecdotal evidence - like plane wreckage or something that would indicate that the plane broke up at 35,000 feet. Otherwise as a plane that simply vanished, the thinking would be that it was missing and a crash may have been likely, but not to the extent that you'd say "no survivors".

I'd think the first response regarding a "missing" plane would be "Where are you?"

All their bodies were found with the wreckage of the plane....the people on the island are CLONES! Transported to an island of the Coast of Africa for an evil experiment

lol :-)

Originally posted by ftboomer
ok, so what is that set of symbols on Boones shirt?

Someone posted already that it says "8 10 4" (vertically), which would normally be read as "84" in Japanese or (apparently) Chinese. I was thinking maybe 8 & 14, but I don't think 14 was a magic number.

BTW, IIRC Jack has a tatoo with some Chinese characters. Can anyone get a screen cap of it? It'd be interesting to go back and see what it says now that we know more about the series.

I think Jack's tattoo predates the show, though.

Originally posted by ftboomer
There is no external handle

That's assuming Locke is on the outside. ;)

Originally posted by Mr.Poindexter
I think Jack's tattoo predates the show, though.

??

If he actually had a tatoo in real life, they could cover it up and not even bring it up on thew show. IIRC, it was brought up, and Kate was intrigued because you wouldn't expect a doctor to have a tatoo like that.

Originally posted by auburn97
I don't know of any river that has sea urchins and major tidal issues like their location on Lost. Madagascar, maybe, but anything that close to civilization is going to be used by the surrounding population somehow.

Let me see, you can believe in giant mechanical monsters, mass halucinations, a man with the strength of ten men, psychic predictions, magic numbers and surviving a plane crash from 35,000 feet but a few sea urchins and major tides are too unrealistic? OK, gotcha. :)

Anyway it's my theory and I'm sticking to it. :)

Originally posted by cyberbri
Someone posted already that it says "8 10 4" (vertically), which would normally be read as "84" in Japanese or (apparently) Chinese. I was thinking maybe 8 & 14, but I don't think 14 was a magic number.

BTW, IIRC Jack has a tatoo with some Chinese characters. Can anyone get a screen cap of it? It'd be interesting to go back and see what it says now that we know more about the series.

Come on now! Don't you people even read the thread?!

:D

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4542172#post4542172

Originally posted by cyberbri
??

If he actually had a tatoo in real life, they could cover it up and not even bring it up on thew show. IIRC, it was brought up, and Kate was intrigued because you wouldn't expect a doctor to have a tatoo like that.

http://lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season1/1x01-pilot/normal_normal-1x01-241.jpg
http://lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season1/1x01-pilot/normal_normal-1x01-209.jpg
http://www.lost-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2938


Here's what some people on other boards say they mean:

I know what the Chinese characters on Matt's tats mean. 1st character means "eagle", 2nd means "own", 3rd means "long", 4th means "sky". Put them together and they might mean "eagle owning the high sky".

He has a 5 as a part of his tatoo on his arm, I think that's for Party of 5 if I'm not mistaken...

one is a pyramid similar to the one on the back of the dollar bill with a 5 underneath and Japanese/Chinese characters...I forgot what it means but I believe his friend he worked with on POV-Scott Wolf, has a similar one...He also has a series of stars on his inner arm on the same side as the triangle, and another one on his left shoulder blade.

the tattoos on Jack's shoulder are actually belonging to Matthew Fox, not created for the character of Jack, and people are assuming it's from his time on "Party of Five" (there's a big #5 and the old English down the right side says "FIVE")

MF was on Kimmel tonight and talked about shooting in Hawaii and how they're shooting all over because they're incorporating flashbacks that explain who these folks were pre-flight and whether/how they're re-inventing themselves now, so it's not just the jungle shots. He said JJA let him keep his tattoos onscreen and he was very complimentary of JJA and the show.


I've seen his tattoos in a Magazine spread, too.. TV Guide or something.. I don't remember... but it was a "not in character spread" with Kate... and he had his tattoos on... (you boys might remember her soaking wet denim outfit in that shoot).

Hope this will end the debate. :)

Actually, I found it.. I was wrong about where it appeared.. it was GQ, and he was alone..

http://matthew-fox.net/gallery/albums/scans/gq/normal_gq05.jpg

One more.. this is from EW... and they are really clear.. it's big.. so I'll just post the URL.

Matthew Fox and Evangeline Lilly in Entertainment Weekly (http://matthew-fox.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=3884&fullsize=1)

... and one more but this might be SPOIL-Y.. so don't click it if you don't wanna know... it was in PEOPLE..

People Blurb/Picture (http://matthew-fox.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=45&pos=11)

Originally posted by Jimbo Moran
Let me see, you can believe in giant mechanical monsters, mass halucinations, a man with the strength of ten men, psychic predictions, magic numbers and surviving a plane crash from 35,000 feet but a few sea urchins and major tides are too unrealistic? OK, gotcha. :)

Anyway it's my theory and I'm sticking to it. :)

Let's see here:

Where was a giant mechanical monster? Oh, this is an assumption to explain some trees moving and noise made by something we have not yet seen.

What mass hallucinations were there? None, unless you say that the group witnessing the trees move was a mass hallucination and then we don't really need to believe in the mechanical monster because it was all in their head. None of the hallucinations involved more than one person.

Who had the strength of 10 men? Ethan? Please. He beat up Jack, but he certainly didn't pick him up and throw him like Andre the Giant would have. He strung up Charlie, but we didn't see how he did that. He took Charlie and Claire, but neither of them remember what happened, so he may have knocked them out. He might have even had help, but we don't know yet.

Psychics predict things all the time. The more they do, the more often they will get one right. Nostradamus, anyone? Also, wasn't there a relatively famous American psychic who spoke in his sleep making predictions? Just because some came true doesn't mean this is evidence of the psychic actually being psychic. The psychic never even mentioned the plane crashing - we just assume he knew it because he wanted her on this plane and it ended up going down.

Magic Numbers: If you fixate on a number, you will see it pop up all the time. JJ Abrams knows this and so he purposely puts the numbers in over and over. It doesn't mean the number is magic or cursed. The fact isn't that they are cursed, it is a fact the Hurley believes they are cursed - and so does Rousseau, after a fashion. ;)

Surviving a plane crash from 35,000 feet: I am sick and tired of hearing this as if the people fell 35,000 feet or the plane fell 35,000 feet. Who saw what the altimeter read when the tail broke off? Oh, nobody but the pilot and he is dead. If you believe people cannot survive a plane crash from that altitude, well, this commercial airliner flew at the same altitude as all other commercial airliners would and there have been crashes where people - sometimes a lot of them - have survived. Go watch the movie Alive (based on a true story) for an easy example. In fact, there was an incident where a person fell over 10,000 feet without a parachute and survived! If the fuselage survived as intact as it did, then it is reasonable to believe that many of the people in the plane could have survived. I don't exactly see an easy landing for a plane when the tail breaks off, but then again, they DID crash.

As far as sea urchins being unrealistic, yes I would find it pretty hard to get sea urchins in fresh water. I would also find it even more difficult to believe that there is a salt water river running in the middle of Africa and if it was fresh water, they would have noticed that by now and not trekked way up to the caves to get a drink. Also, rivers are not big enough to experience tides - not even the big ones like the Amazon, the Nile and the Yellow. Heck, Lake Michigan doesn't have tides like that and I can't see how you could put a river that wide in Africa and hide it from the cartographers.

Makes sense to me. How about you?

Originally posted by Mr.Poindexter
Who had the strength of 10 men? Ethan? Please. He beat up Jack, but he certainly didn't pick him up and throw him like Andre the Giant would have. He strung up Charlie, but we didn't see how he did that. He took Charlie and Claire, but neither of them remember what happened, so he may have knocked them out. He might have even had help, but we don't know yet.
I don't get the "Ethan had special power" thing either... nor get the confusion on how Jack can beat him up the second time after getting his butt kicked by Ethan the first time. The reason Jack got beaten up easily the first time was he had just climbed up a steep hill, tumbled down badly and was on the ground when Ethan came up to him. Basically the hill had already beaten up Jack before Ethan.

Originally posted by AlvinKlein
I don't get the "Ethan had special power" thing either... nor get the confusion on how Jack can beat him up the second time after getting his butt kicked by Ethan the first time. The reason Jack got beaten up easily the first time was he had just climbed up a steep hill, tumbled down badly and was on the ground when Ethan came up to him. Basically the hill had already beaten up Jack before Ethan.

Jack was also still recovering from a dislocated shoulder at the time.

However, Ethan worked his *ss, and with such bone-crunching ease, it made one wonder. Ethan also picked up Charlie by the throat with one arm and lifted him off the ground. Granted, Charlie is maybe 160 lbs soaking wet, but that's still pretty impressive. The guy didn't seem to be straining in the slightest.

Jack whupped him in the end...but was he sandbagging? Was he really breathing when they buried him, or was it bad editing? Tune in next week for absolutely no answers but tons of questions :-)

I don't mind it if each episode gives us 2 answers and 3 new questions. It'll keep it interesting.

Originally posted by CPanther95
I don't mind it if each episode gives us 2 answers and 3 new questions. It'll keep it interesting.

I'm right there with ya...I've been watching since the start and I'm not going anywhere.

Mr.Poindexter,

You are very good at rationalization, I bet that comes in quite handy at times, just not this time. Rationalize this: Polar Bears! Really on a tropical island or mass halucination. Take your pick but choose carefully.

So now it is easier to believe in this Polar bear on a tropical isle than tides in a river or sea urchins in fresh water. Better luck in your next debate.

For that matter how do you know the urchins and tides are not hallucinations as well?

I think the hatch can only be opened from the INSIDE....(cue spooky music). [/B]

http://freespace.virgin.net/steve.hulse/zone.wav

so, who turned the light on inside the hatch ?

Whoever's inside, of course!

I wonder if Jack will figure out Boone's injuries are not from a cliff fall. Wounds would have dirt and crap in them. There may be glass shards in his wounds to indicate Locke was telling his a BS line.

Also Locke should have told Boone the other part his dream. Maybe Boone wouldn't of chanced the climb to the plane. The first time my wife and I saw the plane in the trees, we said "that's coming down". Sucker born every minute I guess.

This show is beginning to spread itself too thinly. I'm not ready to give up on Lost yet, but I was very annoyed and bored with last night's episode. This show is turning into supernatural nonsense way too fast for my taste. Also, I predicted that the old man was gonna steal the kidney right away...which is boring. No surprise when Boone fell with the plane either...yawn.
The only redeeming value of last night's show was the ending, and who knows, that could have been a Locke hallucination anyway...
Is this show going to drag along until they get rescued like Gilligan's Island?

Originally posted by CPanther95
via Closed Captioning:

From the other end of the radio conversation -

"There were no survivors of Oceanic Flight 815"

Sooooo, the plane crashed, the wreckage was found, everybody was dead, etc., and all this happened previous to the present time - at least on the surface. But who was on the other end of the conversation; my guess is that it was someone else on the island that received Boone's broadcast and responded.

Originally posted by rdwalt
I'm still pissed that here in Atlanta ABC didn't broadcast in HD all night! :mad:

Don't feel too bad, I suffered with you. I got home too late to see it in HD and had to watch it on the VHS (waiting on the SA8300HD Comcast is currently in the process of testing).

Very well acted.

Agreed. Terry O'Quinn does one heck of an acting job on this show - totally believable and compelling as well.

Originally posted by DrCrawn

Is this show going to drag along until they get rescued like Gilligan's Island?

That seems like a logical ending to me!
;)

Maybe they are in one of those Steven King type spots where things (or copies of things) fall into another world (black rock = black tower?).

Maybe the government is studying this by pushing transmitters into them in shiny capsules that broadcast numbers.

Maybe they will come up with contrived clues that send me off in a completely different direction next week. ;)

- Tom

Originally posted by keenan
I think it was mentioned before, but I agree that Locke seems to be the only one that is interested in what the island is all about. The rest of them act like they are a camping trip.

There's one in every group!

Previous Admittance #: 564815

Another "815" - anybody keeping track?

Man, if only Syzygy knew back then how important post #815 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4499672#post4499672) would be to the story...

:p

The book Sawyer was reading on the beach:
A Wrinkle In Time

Something popped out when I re-watched the show- in the Costco parking lot, Locke pulls a "Lost Dog" flyer off the hood of his car. Kinda funny since he found Vincent. I wonder if this is another loose pre-flight connection to another character- has any other character mentioned losing a dog? Grasping at straws here, but worth a shot.

Originally posted by Jimbo Moran
Mr.Poindexter,

You are very good at rationalization, I bet that comes in quite handy at times, just not this time. Rationalize this: Polar Bears! Really on a tropical island or mass halucination. Take your pick but choose carefully.

So now it is easier to believe in this Polar bear on a tropical isle than tides in a river or sea urchins in fresh water. Better luck in your next debate.

For that matter how do you know the urchins and tides are not hallucinations as well?

Well, there are currently polar bears on tropical islands in the Carribbean living in zoos and travelling circuses (why a circus would have a POLAR bear of all things is beyond me!) so them living in the tropics isn't unheard of. What requires explaining is how those bears got onto that island. While a zoo plane, a theory offered up here earlier, sounds silly, it is more plausible than being the manifestation of Walt's "special power."

I will say really on a tropical island. They had two encounters with the bears - one of which they killed. How many people saw the bears - seven? Kate, Sayid and one other person were with Sawyer when he shot one and then Walt was attacked and Locke and Michael had to rescue him. Also, Rousseau makes mention of "the bears" so I think it is safe to say that there are actually bears on the island.

I don't know if polar bears can climb trees, but they are certainly big enough and strong enough to pull a man out of a cockpit, scrape him a couple of times and drop him - not that I am saying that definitely was what killed the pilot.

Earlier in this thread there was a link to a news article about the tropical polar bears. Please tell me where you have seen 12 foot tidal waves in a river. Forget the urchins for right now - just explain tides in a river that is so wide you can mistake it for the ocean.

As for the Urchins and tides, since more than one person saw them and saw the same thing, then I would say it isn't a hallucination.

Originally posted by auburn97
The book Sawyer was reading on the beach:
A Wrinkle In Time

Something popped out when I re-watched the show- in the Costco parking lot, Locke pulls a "Lost Dog" flyer off the hood of his car. Kinda funny since he found Vincent. I wonder if this is another loose pre-flight connection to another character- has any other character mentioned losing a dog? Grasping at straws here, but worth a shot.

I thought about that too, but I think I've decided that the writers just like to sneak the word "Lost" in there a lot. I remember the Aussie woman telling Saywer he looked "lost." There have been other times too...

Originally posted by maxman
Another "815" - anybody keeping track?

Flight 815
Safety Deposit Box 815 that Kate stole
The lottery numbers 8 and 15
Regular footballs in aisle 8, nerf in 15.
Locke's mother's birthday...October 15. (Octo=8)

Originally posted by DrCrawn
This show is beginning to spread itself too thinly. I'm not ready to give up on Lost yet, but I was very annoyed and bored with last night's episode. This show is turning into supernatural nonsense way too fast for my taste. Also, I predicted that the old man was gonna steal the kidney right away...which is boring. No surprise when Boone fell with the plane either...yawn.
The only redeeming value of last night's show was the ending, and who knows, that could have been a Locke hallucination anyway...
Is this show going to drag along until they get rescued like Gilligan's Island?

Dude, what are you wanting?! This show is great.

So, you predicted right away that the old man was going to steal the kidney. Better check your bet because he didn't steal it. He tricked Locke into giving it freely, which is totally different. He set up a mousetrap, which Locke didn't see.

Yeah, that plane looked like it was going to go down, but what should they have done, have it not drop and let me read about somebody saying how impossible that is?

This show will continue until it is cancelled or the producer decides to call it quits - just like any other TV show.

I get very tired of all the Gilligan's Island comparisons. I don't see them making a car out of bamboo or using a radio with one set of non-rechargeable batteries for 14 years (although they did recharge them with coconuts) or have multiple people land on the island only to leave without them getting rescued.

FYI, Gilligan's Island ran for 3 seasons and only 1/3 of the episodes involved them trying to get off the island. Gilligan's Island was incredibly episodic, whereas Lost is very serialized.

As far as the supernatural nonsense, what exactly was supernatural? Hallucinations? Those happen all the time. I wouldn't call an acid trip supernatural, even though they produce hallucinations. Locke walking again - perhaps. First though, let's rule out medical. What caused Locke's paralysis? The weirdest thing so far is Locke asking Boone who Theresa was. So far though, what I see is that Locke has faith in the island and people with faith will look for signs and miracles. Seek and ye shall find - just like Hurley's bad luck.

Originally posted by hefe
Flight 815
Safety Deposit Box 815 that Kate stole
The lottery numbers 8 and 15
Regular footballs in aisle 8, nerf in 15.
Locke's mother's birthday...October 15. (Octo=8)

Charlie's copier was a model 815.
Locke's mother's admittance number 564815

I am sure there are others I can't think of right now.

Originally posted by Mr.Poindexter

As far as the supernatural nonsense, what exactly was supernatural? Hallucinations? Those happen all the time. I wouldn't call an acid trip supernatural, even though they produce hallucinations. Locke walking again - perhaps. First though, let's rule out medical. What caused Locke's paralysis? The weirdest thing so far is Locke asking Boone who Theresa was. So far though, what I see is that Locke has faith in the island and people with faith will look for signs and miracles. Seek and ye shall find - just like Hurley's bad luck.

There's still a lot of questions around Walt and why he is "special." Things "happen" around him.

Maybe they are all special. How many of them feel responsible for the death of a parent or parental figure because they somehow wanted it to happen? And how many of the others just wanted to "get away".

- Tom

Ahhhhhh so far many on the island have a death connection. Michael-Walt, Kate, Jack, Sawyer, Saieed?, Boone, maybe Locke, Hurley, Probably Jin, Charlie(Ethan). Maybe others if they do more back stories. Maybe they are alive living in the hatch??

Originally posted by Mr.Poindexter
He set up a mousetrap, which Locke didn't see.


Mousetrap as in the game he showed that kid in the store?

Originally posted by auburn97
The book Sawyer was reading on the beach:
A Wrinkle In Time

Something popped out when I re-watched the show- in the Costco parking lot, Locke pulls a "Lost Dog" flyer off the hood of his car. Kinda funny since he found Vincent. I wonder if this is another loose pre-flight connection to another character- has any other character mentioned losing a dog? Grasping at straws here, but worth a shot.

Great Series of Books by the way, if it's the one by Madeleine L'Engle (sp?).

Originally posted by Iteki

However, Ethan worked his *ss, and with such bone-crunching ease, it made one wonder. Ethan also picked up Charlie by the throat with one arm and lifted him off the ground. Granted, Charlie is maybe 160 lbs soaking wet, but that's still pretty impressive. The guy didn't seem to be straining in the slightest.



160lbs ? I doubt hobbits weigh more than 50lbs ! :D

Didn't Locke say that he used to play the mousetrap game with his brother? Maybe he meant foster brother but it leaves an opening for more in his back-story.

Is the Angola/Nigeria region well-known for heroin (if it was heroin) smuggling? I thought most of that came from Afghanistan.

Originally posted by trbarry
Maybe they are in one of those Steven King type spots where things (or copies of things) fall into another world (black rock = black tower?).

Maybe the government is studying this by pushing transmitters into them in shiny capsules that broadcast numbers.

Maybe they will come up with contrived clues that send me off in a completely different direction next week. ;)

- Tom

if that were the case then aliens would start appearing from the cast member's butts, an obscure reference to a recent horrible, horrible Steven King movie (can y'all guess which one ?)

Originally posted by Mr.Poindexter
Well, there are currently polar bears on tropical islands in the Carribbean living in zoos and travelling circuses (why a circus would have a POLAR bear of all things is beyond me!) so them living in the tropics isn't unheard of. What requires explaining is how those bears got onto that island. While a zoo plane, a theory offered up here earlier, sounds silly, it is more plausible than being the manifestation of Walt's "special power."

I will say really on a tropical island. They had two encounters with the bears - one of which they killed. How many people saw the bears - seven? Kate, Sayid and one other person were with Sawyer when he shot one and then Walt was attacked and Locke and Michael had to rescue him. Also, Rousseau makes mention of "the bears" so I think it is safe to say that there are actually bears on the island.

I don't know if polar bears can climb trees, but they are certainly big enough and strong enough to pull a man out of a cockpit, scrape him a couple of times and drop him - not that I am saying that definitely was what killed the pilot.

Earlier in this thread there was a link to a news article about the tropical polar bears. Please tell me where you have seen 12 foot tidal waves in a river. Forget the urchins for right now - just explain tides in a river that is so wide you can mistake it for the ocean.

As for the Urchins and tides, since more than one person saw them and saw the same thing, then I would say it isn't a hallucination.

maybe the armed priest was responsible for bringing the polar bears on the island

Must be Dreamcatcher, a much better book than movie.....

Originally posted by bobby94928
Must be Dreamcatcher, a much better book than movie.....

DING! DING! DING! We have a weeeeiiiiiinnnnneeeeeerrr!

Originally posted by NorthJersey
DING! DING! DING! We have a weeeeiiiiiinnnnneeeeeerrr!

Hot dog!!!!!! ;)

Originally posted by NorthJersey
maybe the armed priest was responsible for bringing the polar bears on the island

I seriously doubt that drug smugglers from Nigeria in a fairly small plane are also smuggling polar bears. ;)

Originally posted by mx6bfast
Mousetrap as in the game he showed that kid in the store?

Yes, as in that game. The game was a foreshadowing of things to come.

Somewhere on the order of 90% of the world's heroin comes from Afghanistan. There may be production in other areas or the Nigerians may have just been part of the global drug trafficking distribution network. Regardless of where it is produced, it is shipped worldwide - just like Nike shoes and Ford automobiles.

I don't see there being much chance of a polar bear being shipped on a Beechcraft airplane.

Here is one possibility that doesn't stretch the imagination that far - the island is a base for a drug cartel. They may have drugs growing on another part of the island. Since it is so far removed from everything, it is less likely to be noticed by any governments. As for the bears, they could be there as a way to deal with potential island visitors. I don't think this will be our answer or if it is, I hope there would be a better explanation for the bears.

Who needs Heroin when you have that indigenous magic paste?

Originally posted by Mr.Poindexter
Here is one possibility that doesn't stretch the imagination that far - the island is a base for a drug cartel. They may have drugs growing on another part of the island. Since it is so far removed from everything, it is less likely to be noticed by any governments. As for the bears, they could be there as a way to deal with potential island visitors. I don't think this will be our answer or if it is, I hope there would be a better explanation for the bears.

That sounds like the plot of The Beach (another case of the book being far better than the film).

As for the polar bears, there are any number of possible explanations, from being an experiment - some mad scientist put them there to see if they could survive - to an accident, ship transporting them to a zoo sank and they swam ashore.

I think that the writers probably don't know for sure yet. They are still open to being able to explain most things as being natural events rather than supernatural, though the Nigerian plane in the Pacific is pushing it a bit.

I just hope that it never crosses the line and becomes solely supernatural, because then anything can just happen and it will really be Deus ex machina (which is like old Greek for jumping the shark).

I just hope that it never crosses the line and becomes solely supernatural, because then anything can just happen and it will really be Deus ex machina (which is like old Greek for jumping the shark). [/B]

When it jumps you'll hear it here first!

Originally posted by Dynot
With so many characters directly or indirectly responsible for someone's death, I wouldn't be surprised if Locke got his revenge by killing his dad and perhaps he was injured resulting in the loss of use of his legs.

Not that far fetched since he did reply to Boone that how he ended up in the wheelchair was "not important".

Notice that Locke did not have the scar on his right eye in last night's flashbacks. Something significant (and maybe violent) happened to him that we haven't seen yet.

Originally posted by htevolution
Notice that Locke did not have the scar on his right eye in last night's flashbacks. Something significant (and maybe violent) happened to him that we haven't seen yet.

"maybe violent" - like a plane crash perhaps? :)

Originally posted by htevolution
Notice that Locke did not have the scar on his right eye in last night's flashbacks. Something significant (and maybe violent) happened to him that we haven't seen yet.

The cut happened during the crash.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5412246#post5412246

Originally posted by CPanther95
"maybe violent" - like a plane crash perhaps? :)

Alright, cpanther, you got me. I just saw hefe vidcap.

Man, if you don't watch the show live or at least Wed. night you're SOL around here. I just watched last night...trying to catch up.

I know Polar bears can swim several miles, so if they were on a boat, they certainly could swim to the island if it was not too far off.

On the topic of the Nigerian plane, I don't think that is too far off topic. What were Koreans doing out in the middle of the South Pacific? It is possible that the plane was smuggling drugs from Nigeria into Australia or Fiji, or any of a number of other places. Like most things on the island, it is a mystery for now.

Did anyone have audio problems during the first 15 or so minutes on this most recent episode of LOST?
I DVR'd it and watched last night. It was almost unbearable to watch (listen to). This is the second time this has happened to me. I'm watching on Time Warner High Def ABC channel.

But the map that Boone found on the co pilot seat was for North Africa. If the pilot was over the Pacific he would not have a Northern Africa map out. Either Oceanic 815 crashed near Africa (doubtful) or the small plane was somehow transported to the South Pacific. Either expanation leads one to belive some sort of mystical/scifi occurance even though the producers have said none of these elements are behind the story of Lost.

What is the range of most aircraft radios especially when close to the gound? I thought most use VHF/UHF frequencies which do not have a very long range.

Originally posted by timick1
Did anyone have audio problems during the first 15 or so minutes on this most recent episode of LOST?
I DVR'd it and watched last night. It was almost unbearable to watch (listen to). This is the second time this has happened to me. I'm watching on Time Warner High Def ABC channel.

It was clean OTA in Charlotte.

Originally posted by hefe
Using the "numbers" as coordinates place a location here:
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searchtype=address&formtype=latlong&latlongtype=degrees&latdeg=4&latmin=8&latsec=15&longdeg=16&longmin=23&longsec=42

But if the longitude is negative than you get http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searchtype=address&formtype=latlong&latlongtype=degrees&latdeg=4&latmin=8&latsec=15&longdeg=-16&longmin=23&longsec=42

Just off the west coast of Africa in the ocean. Not impossibly far for the Nigerian puddle jumper to have flown to.

Strange.

Originally posted by CPanther95
It was clean OTA in Charlotte.

Thanks CP,

Looks like I'm exchanging my STB for a new one.

Somebody posted map coordinates earlier, so I played around with them also, just for grins...

I tried latitude -16.23.42 and longtitude -4.8.15 and came up with an interesting location:

50 miles E/SE of St. Helena island about 500-600 miles off the coast of Angola.

The problem is that this is in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.

What is interesting is that it meets a lot of the criteria though. The Beechcraft probably has that kind of range. The African map now makes sense. As well as the Angolan link, of course.

Finally, if this is where there are, that would be a good reason why they weren't found by search parties in the Pacific! :D

Like I said, just for grins...

*** dang! looks like somebody else had the same idea...oh, well ***

Originally posted by bbalfour
But if the longitude is negative than you get http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searchtype=address&formtype=latlong&latlongtype=degrees&latdeg=4&latmin=8&latsec=15&longdeg=-16&longmin=23&longsec=42

Just off the west coast of Africa in the ocean. Not impossibly far for the Nigerian puddle jumper to have flown to.

Strange.

It was posted in another forum that the plane (a Beech H 18) has a range of about 400 miles, fully loaded. That spot is more than 400 miles off the coast, although it's not too much farther.

They've really got our heads spinning.

BTW, here is a post I made in another forum a month ago about the numbers and possible coordinates as we were trying to figure them out:
------

Well, you're never going to get close until you adjust the numbers to be in the southern and western hemispheres...that is, negative numbers.
Now, if you break up the numbers like this, you are pretty much right in the flight path...


-4° 8' 15" , -162° 34' 2" (http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searchtype=address&formtype=latlong&latlongtype=degrees&latdeg=-4&latmin=8&latsec=15&longdeg=-162&longmin=34&longsec=2)

Argee, mystical? Please! The map was of Africa. They had African (Nigerian) money in their pocket. How could it have been transported to the South Pacific? Hello, it is an airplane! They were probably smuggling drugs from one place to another and Nigeria would either be the start, finish or some point in the middle of their trip.

Or do you think it is more plausible that they flew through a wormhole or that aliens transported them or that there is an eccentric wizard who lives beneath the hatch that likes to play pranks on people in the real world?

The aircraft radio would likely have much longer range than the transceiver that Sayid has.

Originally posted by Argee
But the map that Boone found on the co pilot seat was for North Africa. If the pilot was over the Pacific he would not have a Northern Africa map out. Either Oceanic 815 crashed near Africa (doubtful) or the small plane was somehow transported to the South Pacific. Either expanation leads one to belive some sort of mystical/scifi occurance even though the producers have said none of these elements are behind the story of Lost.

What is the range of most aircraft radios especially when close to the gound? I thought most use VHF/UHF frequencies which do not have a very long range.

Or Flight 815 could have been transported off the coast of Africa (instead of the African plane to the pacific)

Originally posted by Mr.Poindexter
Argee, mystical? Please! The map was of Africa. They had African (Nigerian) money in their pocket. How could it have been transported to the South Pacific? Hello, it is an airplane! They were probably smuggling drugs from one place to another and Nigeria would either be the start, finish or some point in the middle of their trip.



The plane could also have had auxiliary fuel tanks, pretty common with drug smugglers to increase the range.

I know this is a "No Spoilers" thread. But I'm thinking I want some, at least more than in TV GUIDE.

Originally posted by mikey mo
I know this is a "No Spoilers" thread. But I'm thinking I want some, at least more than in TV GUIDE.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=517981&highlight=lost

I don't know if polar bears can climb trees, but they are certainly big enough and strong enough to pull a man out of a cockpit, scrape him a couple of times and drop him - not that I am saying that definitely was what killed the pilot.I understand the need to fudge things a bit to make arguments sound better but "scrape him a couple times and drop him"? You are the king of understatement :). So you're proposing here that one of the bears climbed way up above the nose of the plane, jostled it violently (while making some very interesting sounds BTW), extracted the pilot, ravaged him and then "dropped" him 20-30' up in the branches of another tree? That's one mighty impressive polar bear, baby! :eek:

ron

Originally posted by R11
That's one mighty impressive polar bear, baby! :eek:

ron
If the poilar bears came from a sunken ship, maybe it was also carrying some other animals that could do just that. Though I can't think of any!

Sawyer's choice of reading material for this week:

A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L'Engle

From Amazon.com: Everyone in town thinks Meg Murry is volatile and dull-witted, and that her younger brother, Charles Wallace, is dumb. People are also saying that their physicist father has run off and left their brilliant scientist mother. Spurred on by these rumors and an unearthly stranger, the tesseract-touting Mrs Whatsit, Meg and Charles Wallace and their new friend Calvin O'Keefe embark on a perilous quest through space to find their father. In doing so, they must travel behind the shadow of an evil power that is darkening the cosmos, one planet at a time. This is no superhero tale, nor is it science fiction, although it shares elements of both. The travelers must rely on their individual and collective strengths, delving deep within themselves to find answers.


No big revelations here, but some very Lost-appropriate themes.

Look, what I am saying is that for all the talk about ripping the pilot out of the cockpit, a polar bear is certainly strong enough to do that. A fall of 20' would kill the guy if he didn't land just right. It is my recollection that he looked pretty scratched up, but not having any major trauma like dismemberment or a bite out of him. I am just saying that a polar bear could kill a guy and it could look like that - not to say that is definitely what happened.

As for jostling the plane violently, what does a polar bear weigh? Well, I looked on polarworld.com and came up with this:

In general, adult Polar Bears stand approximately 1 meter (3 1/2 feet) tall when on all fours and have an approximate body length from nose to tail of 250 to 350 centimeters (8 1/4 to 11 1/2 feet). However some Polar Bears have been captured measuring up to 18 feet tall, so they can grow to be quite tall, given the proper diets!

Polar Bears grow very large. Females typically weigh in the area of 300 kilograms (660 pounds). Males are generally larger and usually weigh 500 to 600 kilograms (1100 to 1320 pounds). They can grow much larger, however. In fact, there is a record of an adult male Polar Bear weighing over 1000 kilograms (2200 pounds). The life span of Polar Bears in the wild can be twenty-five years or more.

As Ursus maritimus means "sea bear", it is important to understand how well adapted Polar Bears are to a marine life. They are most at home out on the ice following the leads of temporary open water or hunting near the polynyas, which are larger bodies of water which stay ice free throughout the winter.

Polar Bears are able to swim distances greater than 96 kilometers (60 miles) without a pause to rest. Using their forepaws for propulsion and their rear paws as rudders, they can maintain an average swimming speed of approximately 10 kilometers (6 miles) per hour.

They are also excellent divers being able to remain submerged for up to two minutes and attain a depth of 4 1/2 meters (15 feet). While underwater, they are able to close their nostrils and flatten their ears. Their eyes remain open so that they can see possible prey.

Polar Bears have also been observed leaping out of the water up to 2.25 meters (7 to 8 feet) in the air as they surprise a seal resting on a ice floe. Once again lets pause for a moment and think about this.....HOW COOL WOULD IT BE TO SEE THAT!! (:



A 2,000 pound animal hopping across the top of that plane would be some pretty violent shaking. If they can jump that far out of water, I can imagine that getting into a tree wouldn't be impossible, either. And a 60 mile range for swimming gives them some pretty amazing chances at surviving a shipwreck.

Just think for a minute about a 2200lb.+ bear that stands 18.5 ft tall, can swim 60 miles - that's 10 hours without a rest, and jump 7-8 feet high out of the water! I think that would be one impressive polar bear and that kind of performance has been documented. Face it man, polar bears are just bad ass. They are the most dangerous land animal other than man and while as a human I might get the #1 seed in a fight, I would rather not take one on.

Oceanic 815 was flying from Sydney to L.A. AKA over the Pacific Ocean. The drug smugglers had a map of northern Africa on the seat, had Nigerian money so yes they were from Nigeria and whatever range, fuel tanks or not one can assume they were flying over or near Africa or they would have had a South Pacific map open on the seat.
Either/or one of the two planes crashed 12000 miles from where from where they were supposd to be or we are being led to believe they should have been.
What does make sense on this island?

Well, I once watched a show on the Discovery channel called Great Beasts of the North and.... oh, never mind ;).

We are just discussing a fictional little TV show right?

ron

From Polarworld:

"In all of recorded history, only 19 people have been killed by polar bears in Russia. In all instances in which a person was killed by a polar bear, the animal in question was starving or had been provoked. "

I guess according to Mr.Poindexter the count is now up to 20. :) I wonder how that poor pilot provoked Mr. Bear? Perhaps the radio was getting on his nerves, good thing Hurley had headphones.

And if I got in a car wreck in Utah, would the police be puzzled that I had a map of California in my car?

Actually, the map may have been there so that we can conclusively link the dead Nigerian "priest" with the airplane. That doesn't explain why they were there, but I do wonder. The door of the craft was closed, so how did the priest fall out of the plane? Maybe he was launched through the windshield when the plane crashed?

He could have bailed out of the door as it was going down and landed in the tree. When the plane crashed the door closed.

I don't think the instinct for many people is to jump out of a plane - even if it's crashing.

Originally posted by CPanther95
I don't think the instinct for many people is to jump out of a plane - even if it's crashing.

wasn't he tethered to a parachut? That's what I thought the lines were from that Locke pulled on to release the body from the tree.

Originally posted by PJO1966
wasn't he tethered to a parachut? That's what I thought the lines were from that Locke pulled on to release the body from the tree.

Yes, that is what I thought and posted earlier - i think i posted it :confused: but anyway, when locke pulled him out of the tree he used something that looked like a parachut harness/rope.

I have a theory on the polar bears. Maybe they were brown bears, snorted some of the drugs that just happened to fall out of the plane, and turned white.

Or maybe they're regular bears that went white with fear when they saw the giant giraffe.

Originally posted by Mr.Poindexter
And if I got in a car wreck in Utah, would the police be puzzled that I had a map of California in my car?

In Utah they wouldn't know the difference even if you had a Nigerian Priest as a passenger, a 2000 lb Polar bear hidden in your trunk and were smuggling saltwater sea urchins searching for the nearest tidal wave.

Enough on polar bears, already! Does anyone besides me think that Locke has regained some use of his legs since he extracted Boone from the airplane? He was virtually immobile and had to drag himself over to the plane to get Boone out. But then he is seen carrying him into the camp. And then he makes it all the way back to the hatch. How'd he do all that without his legs? I think the island is once again helping Locke.

Originally posted by PJO1966
wasn't he tethered to a parachut? That's what I thought the lines were from that Locke pulled on to release the body from the tree.

If he landed that close to the plane, he waited too long to jump then. ;)

Appoligies for not going back 6-8 pages to find, I believe Hong's answer to the symbols on Boone's t-shirt being 8, 10 and 4 meaning 84.

Just ponder american enlish speaking directors trying to get 815. 8, 10 and 5 would be 815 in the western world. Did they mess this up? I don't know how similar the character four and five are.

Next pondering, take the map coordinates and they are somewhere in or near Africa regardless of how they are entered right? What's on the opposite side of the globe?

Really off the wall here: Is the hatch the nose of a vehicle that has made the trek from Africa. Did the Beechcraft get caught in some wierd vortex and so did Flight 815 and neither are where they thought they were/ are?


Who knows? The Shadow Knows.

Originally posted by Argee
Oceanic 815 was flying from Sydney to L.A. AKA over the Pacific Ocean. The drug smugglers had a map of northern Africa on the seat, had Nigerian money so yes they were from Nigeria and whatever range, fuel tanks or not one can assume they were flying over or near Africa or they would have had a South Pacific map open on the seat.
Either/or one of the two planes crashed 12000 miles from where from where they were supposd to be or we are being led to believe they should have been.
What does make sense on this island?

Or they were both transported somewhere else entirely

The door on the plane opened to the outside. I believe Boone threw the door down, so I don't think the priest jumped out of the plane and then somebody closed the door after he left.

It looked to me like the priest was tangled up in the vines from the banyon trees and not in a parachute.

Originally posted by mx6bfast
I have a theory on the polar bears. Maybe they were brown bears, snorted some of the drugs that just happened to fall out of the plane, and turned white.

Or maybe they were black bears who saw something they shouldn't have, turned state's evidence and were given new identities as polar bears and put into the witness protection program...

Originally posted by CPanther95
I don't think the instinct for many people is to jump out of a plane - even if it's crashing.

Only if they were chasing a six pack of Budweiser thrown out earlier....

Originally posted by Mr.Poindexter
However some Polar Bears have been captured measuring up to 18 feet tall, so they can grow to be quite tall, given the proper diets!



That's a hell of a diet, 18 feet tall!?!? That's almost two stories high, I would have to see that one to believe it....

That 18' feet has to be standing on it's hind legs, otherwise the thing would be bigger than a single car garage, that's insane...

Anybody got any pics of an 18' tall polar bear...?

Sorry for being really off topic, but wow...18' feet!?!? Just picture that in your mind...that's as big as an elephant....:p :D :eek:

Originally posted by Jimbo Moran
In Utah they wouldn't know the difference even if you had a Nigerian Priest as a passenger, a 2000 lb Polar bear hidden in your trunk and were smuggling saltwater sea urchins searching for the nearest tidal wave.

That would be some trunk!

Originally posted by keenan
That's a hell of a diet, 18 feet tall!?!? That's almost two stories high, I would have to see that one to believe it....

That 18' feet has to be standing on it's hind legs, otherwise the thing would be bigger than a single car garage, that's insane...

Anybody got any pics of an 18' tall polar bear...?

Sorry for being really off topic, but wow...18' feet!?!? Just picture that in your mind...that's as big as an elephant....:p :D :eek:

From http://www.seaworld.org/infobooks/PolarBears/pbphysical.html :

"The largest polar bear ever recorded was a male weighing 1,002 kg (2,209 lb.) and measuring 3.7 m (12 ft.) long (Domico, 1988)."

Of course since this is probably an uncharted, scientifically unexplored island, the 18 footers living here haven't been discovered and made known yet by the scientific community.

So - who thought when they first first heard of this show before it premiered that the storyline would be so dense.

Didn't you all think - oh great - just a modern day Gilligan's Island. Week after week of them trying to get off the island. I never would have imagined the use of back stories could make a show so interesting. Too bad Gilligan's Island didn't have all the back stories like Lost - that would be interesting.

I'm curious - do you think the writers have a definite story arc in mind? Obviously the network would want to milk this for as many seasons as they can keep it up, but you have to think that everything is leading to some point. Sort of like - who killed Laura Palmer? But that mystery was stretched out too long - and people lost interest in the second season.

I think I would prefer that this show had a definite conclusion in mind. I really enjoy it - but I would like to eventually see it come to some type of conclusion. Perhaps just one more spectacular season with an amazing conclusion that wraps it all up and makes us all go wow.

I guess if they did want to keep it interesting, they'd have to start pulling in more of the "red shirt" survivors and giving them back stories.

Or - perhaps they could be rescued and then then continue the characters stories after the rescue - and change the show name to Found. Just throwing out thoughts here.

http://www.worldslargestthings.com/minnesota/polarbear.htm
World's Largest Polar Bear

Or - perhaps they could be rescued and then then continue the characters stories after the rescue - and change the show name to Found. Just throwing out thoughts here.

Now THERE'S a great idea. You should be an executive in the television business.

I'm curious - do you think the writers have a definite story arc in mind? Obviously the network would want to milk this for as many seasons as they can keep it up, but you have to think that everything is leading to some point.

I more think they have multiple arcs in mind and may still be somewhat keeping their options open. For instance I would not be surprised to see the 4 8 15 ... numbers take on an advertising mystery life of their own somewhere outside of the show. I might even predict something like that is being shopped for the second season.
(and if not it should be)

- Tom

Originally posted by stansell
So - who thought when they first first heard of this show before it premiered that the storyline would be so dense.


To be honest, IIRC, the crash sequence looked cool enough that I didn't think much about the whole premise - just wanted to see the show.

Whatever happened to the "spoiler" thread that everybody was so hot to have?

Originally posted by CPanther95
To be honest, IIRC, the crash sequence looked cool enough that I didn't think much about the whole premise - just wanted to see the show.

The shot of Kate in her underwear in the commercials is what hooked me to take a look at the show. I'm glad I did, not because of her, but because the show turned out to be so great....well, maybe a little because of Kate...:)

Originally posted by keenan
The shot of Kate in her underwear in the commercials is what hooked me to take a look at the show. I'm glad I did, not because of her, but because the show turned out to be so great....well, maybe a little because of Kate...:)
I watched the show even before the hot panty scenes...and I'm glad I stayed for it. Kate in her underwear is just plain sexy. She's recently got this toned up body that still looks yummy to me even though I usually dont go for women with that kinda tone.

Hehe...just something I picked out.

I was talking about the pre-premier commercials that ran prior to it being on the air.

Originally posted by PJO1966
wasn't he tethered to a parachut? That's what I thought the lines were from that Locke pulled on to release the body from the tree.

I thought it was a parachut too, but those look like vines to me.

If that polar bear was 12' long, how tall was he? I would imagine that standing up he would add several feet.

Those were certainly vines and not a parachute.

Originally posted by Argee
But the map that Boone found on the co pilot seat was for North Africa. If the pilot was over the Pacific he would not have a Northern Africa map out. Either Oceanic 815 crashed near Africa (doubtful) or the small plane was somehow transported to the South Pacific. Either expanation leads one to belive some sort of mystical/scifi occurance even though the producers have said none of these elements are behind the story of Lost.


I'm expecting Richard Dreyfus to come barreling down the beach in his Electric Company truck chasing a "Close Encounters" mini-spaceship pretty soon.....;)

Or maybe one of the Flight 19 planes from the Bermuda Triangle will show up pretty soon.....:p

Either way the show is entertaining enough to keep me coming back weekly. I can *only hope* that next year it's in either a 9pm or a 10pm time slot....as watching it intently is getting REAL TEDIOUS with 3 kids still awake at 8pm :mad:

Originally posted by Mr.Poindexter
If that polar bear was 12' long, how tall was he? I would imagine that standing up he would add several feet.



Using the numbers you posted earlier, a 12' long bear would be about 4' tall. If we give him 6' for the length of his front and rear legs, standing up with his front paws to the sky might give him a standing height of 18'. That would be tall enough to get into the cockpit of that plane, maybe. The thing is a 12' long, 4' tall polar bear is an awfully loooong polar bear, about twice the length of a normal bed and about as high as the chest on a 6' tall person. Odd shape...:p

A few weeks ago I'd read an article that Doug Lung had imbedded in one of his e-mail updates that I sub'd to. The article was about the weakening of the Earth's magnetic fields. It struck a chord with me only because of Locke's compass not matching Sayid's homemade compass. And now that Africa and Nigeria are in the mix it's even kookier. Not as kooky as Polar Bears, Heroin and Angry French Chyks (now there's a hat trick)...but pretty interesting stuff to "add to the fire" WRT just WTF is going on in the Land of the Lost.....

http://www.tvtechnology.com/dlrf/one.php?id=737

:p

I've read about that before, the poles inverting, I think it happens every 12,000 years or so and one of the causes is intense solar activity of "shedding" of excess or free electron buildup over time from the perpetual hydrogen fusion. I think it's called a gravity wave.

Originally posted by keenan
I've read about that before, the poles inverting, I think it happens every 12,000 years or so and one of the causes is intense solar activity of "shedding" of excess or free electron buildup over time from the perpetual hydrogen fusion. I think it's called a gravity wave.

Can a 10/12/14/18 foot tall polar bear ride said wave from the South Pole to Paradise ???

:D

Originally posted by Mr.Poindexter
The door on the plane opened to the outside. I believe Boone threw the door down, so I don't think the priest jumped out of the plane and then somebody closed the door after he left.

Ummmmm quite plausible there was a door on the other side we didn't see open.

Also I think Locke's legs going out the further way he gets from the hatch. Maybe the hatch is the epicenter of him getting the use of his legs back??

Considering his legs were fine when he had to carry Boone back from the plane - it's probably more about doing what the island wants than it is proximity to the hatch.

Originally posted by CPanther95
Considering his legs were fine when he had to carry Boone back from the plane - it's probably more about doing what the island wants than it is proximity to the hatch.

The "island" supposedly wanted him to find that plane, but yet the further he walked, the worse his legs got. He might have pumped up the adrenalin to carry Boone away from the plane and then his legs got better the closer he got to the hatch?? Who knows, just a theory and the longer the show goes on, the less we'll all know. :)

But his legs were fine before he found the hatch.

FYI, polar bears are from the northern hemisphere, not the southern. The only penguins that have ever seen a polar bear were either at the zoo or watching TV.

After noticing several present-day cars in the parking lot when Locke was chasing his mother, I'm thinking that the events on the island are not present-day, but several years in the future. I seem to recall a calendar on the wall when Michael was in the hospital that was dated 2001? and he mentioned it was Walt's 2nd birthday. I'm not sure what Walt's age is now, but it seems to indicate that Lost is taking place several years from now.

Can someone confirm what the date on the calendar was, it was in the "Special" episode back in January.

Originally posted by WallDive
Can someone confirm what the date on the calendar was, it was in the "Special" episode back in January.

I have that episode on my hard drive- I'll check it out when I get a chance later today.

Has anyone considered that Locke is actually as crazy as a sh*thouse rat?
Think about it:
crazy mother
robbed of kidney by father
troubled orphaned child in multiple foster homes
dissed at work as a nut
obesssed with a phone sex chick
loss of use of legs (probably due to a mental condition IMO)
wheelchair bound person attempting an outback adventure
the island "talks" to him
he does what "it" wants
staring out at the ocean for long periods of time

Plus, the kicker....everyone on the island thinks he is "the man", "the only sane one", etc etc etc....I smell a LOST curveball.

All the clues are laid out to see, but Locke is so convincing while living out his nutboy fantasy life ("I like it here too") that the reality of his situation becomes secondary.
???

Since we don't know yet what caused Locke's leg condition, it's impossible to know whether it's the island messing with him, adrenaline allowing him to use them or if it's purely an internal psychological thing with him. I don't think we have enough info yet to figure out why they work sometimes and why they seem to get very weak.

I doubt he's crazy - the whole vision of a bloody Boone was acurate - not to mention the, "xxx falls down the stairs, xxx falls up the stairs" part was also true.

I have to watch the episode again, but what do you think was the writers intention in showing us that sequence at that point. It doesn't seem as if it was related to anything in the rest of the episode. Was it purely to show us that Locke has been given some sort of pyschic ability by the island?

Just because he has accurate visions doesnt mean he might not be wacko....its actually a rather old plot device.....and just because he's wacko doesnt mean he's not heroic in the grand scheme of things either.
I just think more and more his chair isnt pulled all the way up to the table (no pun intended).

Originally posted by keenan
I have to watch the episode again, but what do you think was the writers intention in showing us that sequence at that point. It doesn't seem as if it was related to anything in the rest of the episode. Was it purely to show us that Locke has been given some sort of pyschic ability by the island?

Yes, and I think to convince Boone that Locke was not just going crazy with his ideas about the island "wanting" them to find something.