We'll have to see how much restraint Hurley has. He'll probably polish off all the remaining candy and 5 gallons of pickled eggs.

Surprised there's no Kate in the duct screencap. Gravity does wonders for her cleavage. ;)
You mean, like THIS ONE (http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=736&pos=272). :eek:

Also thanks, but I swear I can't make a thing out on it. All I see are two bright areas. Where I am supposed to look?

Thanks.

I didn't see it at first, either. Try this one (It is very dark, if your monitor settings are off, you might not see it):

I was thinking of that cable that came up on the beach and several people have commented that they think it brought power up to Rousseau's bunker.

What if it instead took power out to the sea for some underground facility that maintains the shark system. Rousseau could have found the cable and patched into it for power without knowing where the source was.

I think it is more plausible that the source of power is on the island and not in the ocean.

i didnt realise that was an actual joke (snowman), google search shows the actual punchline is 'do you smell carrots', i thought somebody on here just made it up.

And here I was thinking it was going to be something on the order of The Aristocrats. ;)

Hey, one question: I've still got this ep on the ol' DVR, and would like to go back and look at the shark/logo again. Whereabouts in the episode does this occur - towards the beginning, middle, end...?

I didn't see it at first, either. Try this one (It is very dark, if your monitor settings are off, you might not see it):

Is it just me, or is there another image below and to the right?

Hey, one question: I've still got this ep on the ol' DVR, and would like to go back and look at the shark/logo again. Whereabouts in the episode does this occur - towards the beginning, middle, end...?
2/3 or later IIRC.

Is it just me, or is there another image below and to the right?
That's Sawyer in the water.

Lost' kicks serious Wednesday butt
Scores a 9.4 in 18-49s, nearly tripling No. 2

By Diego Vasquez MediaLifeMagazine.com Sep 29, 2005

ABC’s “Lost” is officially a juggernaut. It walloped the competition once more in its new 9 p.m. timeslot last night. Even a rerun of last week’s premiere airing at 8 p.m. thumped original programming on the other networks, including the fading “The Apprentice: Martha Stewart.”

“Lost” averaged a 9.4 overnight rating among viewers 18-49 at 9 p.m., a slight 6 percent drop from a 10.0 for last week’s season premiere. The show’s week-to-week retention among total viewers was even more impressive as last night’s episode averaged 22.7 million viewers, down just 2 percent versus 23.1 million last week.

By comparison, CBS, Fox and NBC combined to average an 8.0 in 18-49s at 9. “Lost’s” closest competition came from CBS’s “Criminal Minds,” which averaged a 3.3, nearly two-thirds below “Lost.”

At 8, the “Lost” rerun averaged a 4.0, 1.1 ahead of its closest competition.

http://medialifemagazine.com/artman/publish/article_400.asp

That's Sawyer in the water.

Really? I must not be looking at this image properly. The other logo is on the shark fin?

That's Sawyer in the water.

Yeap, I cranked up the brightness:

And here I was thinking it was going to be something on the order of The Aristocrats. ;)

Hey, one question: I've still got this ep on the ol' DVR, and would like to go back and look at the shark/logo again. Whereabouts in the episode does this occur - towards the beginning, middle, end...?

It's shown as Sawyer is swimming for the pontoon, if I'm not mistaken.

Did you notice how long it took Sawyer to swim to the pontoon - then when Mike paddled to meet up with him, it took about 5 seconds to get there?

Sawyer had been shot in the shoulder. I think that would certainly put a damper on his breaststroke.

But Desmond wanted to know if any of the crash survivors had turned after only 44 days on the Island.


Haven't seen this mentioned yet, but how about Desmond's hash marks on the wall...or maybe they were made be a predecessor? One short wall in the apartment was covered with them. It even looked like the opposite wall could be, too.

Desmond (or someone, at least) has been there a long time.

Any one with a recording willing to check that out or maybe cap it?

Must have put a damper on his brain cells also if they could have just paddled that quickly to catch up to the pontoon.

Sawyer had been shot in the shoulder. I think that would certainly put a damper on his breaststroke.
Can you even imagine pulling a bullet out of your shoulder, in salt water no less.. :eek:

My daughter answered that right away. But I still prefer the "Do you smell carrots" answer better. :D
What is the correct answer? I must have missed it.

Innova,

Thanks for the circle. I opened it with a CRT vs. an LCD and was able to see it. Thanks.

Apparently the "carrots" answer is the correct answer.

am i the only one that thinks there was a reason that the only "name brand" food was the apollo chocolate bar (which is a japanese chocolate company)?? everything else in the room looked like goverment/generic food, just standards "OLIVES", etc, but the chocolate bar, which is the only thing she ate, had a label on it. I also think her eating that may come back up either to haunt her or help her, just like jack drinking desmonds water. Watching it i thought it was pretty strange that she is locked in a underground room, with a crazy guy with a gun outside, monsters all over, her life in danger, and she takes time to eat some chocolate?!?!!?!?!??!!?!?!?! they werent starving, they've been there for 44 days im sure they are eating well by now, does she have that much of a urge for sweets that she' chooses now to eat the chocolate ANDDDDD take a bunch extra for later?????? why the hell did she find it neccessary to take 10 extra chocolate bars for later!!!

1. I think if you look back the "name brand" chocolate bars were in a generic black and white DHARMA box labeled "Candy".

2. A true chocoholic can't always be held responsible for her actions. ;)

So 108 could be the number of days before one would "turn?"

Also, the show seems to be leaning towards the government/corporation experiment arc, fairly heavily, with the bunker, security guy/watchman(desmond) and the logo on the shark(which i didn't see at all -- i'll have to crank up the brightness next week).

Candy bars wouldn't typically be sold in non-branded "industrial" packaging. Even military MREs contain branded items.
IIRC, the top of the box had been cut off allowing you to see the rows of branded candy bars. But the front of the box simply said "CANDY."

Back to the candy bar issue, I remember on Survivor a couple of the hot chicks got nekkid for some sweets (oreos and peanut butter?) Maybe we can get something like that going. Of course Kate is in possesion of the candy right now......

I think it is more plausible that the source of power is on the island and not in the ocean.
Depends. Have you ever been SCUBA diving off Cozumel? The current runs between 1-4 knots depending on where you are. A steady current like that could easily turn an underwater turbine producing electricity.

Did you notice how long it took Sawyer to swim to the pontoon - then when Mike paddled to meet up with him, it took about 5 seconds to get there?

every try to swim with just one arm? the man just took a bullet out of his shoulder!

:-)

IIRC, the top of the box had been cut off allowing you to see the rows of branded candy bars. But the front of the box simply said "CANDY."

The wrappers were clearly not generic.

Anyone think it's a coincidence that when Desmond met Jack at the stadium, that Jack suddenly had some bad luck with his ankle?

What if Desmond had already been at the bunker prior to that scene, for a tour of duty at the bunker (maybe they stay six months or a year and then get rotated out... usually), and so he had already been typing in the numbers repeatedly on the computer. He could have "super luck powers" similar to Hurley - good luck for him, but causing bad luck for surrounding people.

I'm leaning towards the idea that making them enter the numbers into the computer is not just a simple dead mans switch. If it was, why not just have them type a single character or something to let the computer know they are still there. Or some type of more traditional password. But the numbers?

It seems unlikely. More likely is that typing them into the computer has some effect - perhaps the effect has been studied by the bunker builders and this effect can be manipulated by entering the numbers at particular times - hence the computer-driven schedule.

But at this point Desmond seems to want to stop entering them himself - the very first thing that popped into his mind when the computer started beeping was to force Locke to enter them instead of doing it himself. If the computer controls an island nuke or something, why in the world would he let Locke enter that code in? Shouldn't he want to maintain control of it, and not risk someone accidentally blowing things up? But he doesn't seem worried about that at all - what he is worried about is having to be the one to enter the numbers. But why?

... One thing that seemed to happen in this episode is that when the numbers were entered in the Apple computer, the clock reset to 108 minutes, or 1hr 48 minutes. ...

If it's seconds (10800), that's 3 hours even.

I think the reason Desmond is counting days on the wall is that his tour of duty there has been involuntarily extended past the normal. So I would guess the marks on the wall are counting how many days AFTER his normal tour ended.

He was holding a gun on Locke. That's the only reason he had Locke enter the numbers.

If the computer controls an island nuke or something, why in the world would be let Locke enter that code in? Shouldn't he want to maintain control of it, and not risk someone accidentally blowing things up? But he doesn't seem worried about that at all - what he is worried about is having to be the one to enter the numbers. But why?

If Desmond were to have entered the numbers, Locke would have had an opportunity to attack him. Desmond had to force Locke to enter the numbers so he could maintain his position of control.

So, does anyone think this episode was a step back. I SURE hope that LOST is not moving in the direction of "make it simple for people to understand" and capture a greater market share model.

Last season, they captured a demo-graphic of people who were okay with suspense, and not knowing things, and having to THINK about things and wonder and speculate. Now, with this episode we are actually SEEING things, Desmond in the bunker, Desmond in the Stadium (in the same episode mind you, last season he would have been five episodes BACK and one would have had to REMEMBER that we had seen him) and we SEE the shark, whatever happened to the unknown, and we SEE the people "hunters", "others" what have you running to capture the swimmers and Jen running out. Seems pretty straight forward,

And THIS episode: We learned really nothing. We SAW 108 everywhere, it is like they are BANGING us over the head with it and not leading us down the path! If this turns into another action, hunt down, escape, how do we take their food series, they are going to lose their core audience and yeah, get the larger group that just doesn't care.

So, some of the things to notice. WOW, DHARMA on the shark, I hadn't caught that.

The Apollo candy, makes me think that this is some OLD candy, but what I find a bit more surprising is that there weren't some MORE mainstrem products in there, think MARKETING, product placement, MONEY!!.

How much would Hersheys have paid if she was munching on a Hershey bar and not some Apollo Japanese candybar?

Couldn't they have put some Planters nuts in there? I wonder if APPLE is getting a plug for the AII, or whatever it is.

While entertaining, this episode was a waste of an hour.

When the "clock" reset to 108 00 - it remained at that number for a few seconds and we never see it start the next countdown - so we really can't determine the frequency at which the numbers have to be entered.

So, it seems to me that the island is a government research facility that went out of control, and the island is drawing "special" people to it.

Sharks with logos on them? Missed that one last night. Very cool.

He could have forced Locke to stand in a spot where he could watch him while he entered the numbers himself with one hand.

Locke asked him what this would do, but Desmond did not want to tell him anything... there is something going on with this besides a simple dead man's switch.

I wonder if APPLE is getting a plug for the AII, or whatever it is.

Maybe that's the reason for the tremendous amount of Apple Cider and Apple Sauce in the storeroom. ;)

I mean really if these numbers are super-secret computer password - would a security guard like Desmond really be willing to just give them out so easily to Locke?? That would be strictly against procedure.

Depends. Have you ever been SCUBA diving off Cozumel? The current runs between 1-4 knots depending on where you are. A steady current like that could easily turn an underwater turbine producing electricity.

I am sure there could be an inderwater turbine generator. I was just stating that it could possibly be power running the other direction - who knows.

He could have forced Locke to stand in a spot where he could watch him while he entered the numbers himself with one hand.

But why go through the hassle when you can just make Locke do it?

I mean really if these numbers are super-secret computer password - would a security guard like Desmond really be willing to just give them out so easily to Locke?? That would be strictly against procedure.

ofcourse they wouldnt print them on the outside of the hatch either! top secret!

I mean really if these numbers are super-secret computer password - would a security guard like Desmond really be willing to just give them out so easily to Locke?? That would be strictly against procedure.

I think that ship sailed when they decided to engrave the numbers on the outside of the hatch and transmit them over the airwaves for years.

ofcourse they wouldnt print them on the outside of the hatch either! top secret!

Exactly - they can't be a simple password or dead mans switch if they are given away to the "enemy" so easily.

I mean really if these numbers are super-secret computer password - would a security guard like Desmond really be willing to just give them out so easily to Locke?? That would be strictly against procedure.

It's definitely not a password. A password wouldn't be printed on the hatch or broadcast so that the military could capture it up easily (remember that these numbers were picked up by a military listening station).

It is code for something, but nobody knows for what.

(Someone beat me to it ;))

He would have had to take his eyes off Locke - something he didn't want to do.

Exactly - they can't be a simple password or dead mans switch if they are given away to the "enemy" so easily.

I have a "dead man's switch" on my rider mower - anyone with an ass knows the password. :)

It is the answer to life. Now we just need to come up with the question. ;)

I have a "dead man's switch" on my rider mower - anyone with an ass knows the password. :)Cool. But do you ride it wearing a plastic hard hat w/twin-can holder's and straws? :D

When Locke was playing like he was the "one" the guy said something to him that surprised Locke. When he said that line my receiver dropped the signal and we didn't hear what he said. It was a key line and it's driving me crazy not knowing. What did the guy say?

You mean, like THIS ONE (http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=736&pos=272). :eek:

There ya go. :p

FWIW, David Fury said they're making it up as they go along, that they really have no detailed master plan.

While that shot of Kate in the duct is nice, I just don't get what the massive infatuation with her is unless it is the "bad girl" image. She's cute but not all that and her character isn't overly compelling/hot like Jennifer Garner's character on Alias.

Any chance the cheap wig in the Jack flashback was to try and make us believe it was, say, 16 years ago? Obviously the Desmond Jack met in the stadium has changed, possibly for the worst...like someone who has been locked up too long.

Reason I ask: up to 16 years ago, the island transmitter was broadcasting 4 8 15 16 23 42, but then Danielle changed the transmission to a distress call. If the government or whoever was monitoring the airwaves, they would know that the island was compromised because the message changed. It's probably a stretch but, well, you know dude it's like 16 is one of the NUMBERS.

I had the closed captioning on, and it showed him repeating "others" over and over..
I liked how Jin's English pronounciation suddenly improved at the end of the show:

JIN, WHAT'S WRONG?
UDDERS. UDDERS. UDDERS.
WHAT?
OTHERS! OTHERS!
WHAT?
OTHERS.
Captioning provided by
Touchstone Television, ABC, Inc.
Udders? :)

I don't think the stadium meeting was 16 years back. I don't see why the french chick wrecking on the island would have diddly squat to do with a stadium meeting.

Plus I find it unlikely that Jack would instantly recognize Desmond if there had been 16 years in between.

Plus, even with the wig Jack and his dad do not look anywhere near 16 years younger in the flashbacks. I mean think about it - a typical doctor doesn't start practicing in a high end position like Jack had at that hospital with an office and everything until he's at least like say 32 years old at around the earliest. So if the stadium thing happened when he was 32 years old at the earliest, if it is now 16 years later he would be 48. Does Jack look 48 to you?

The Apollo candy, makes me think that this is some OLD candy, but what I find a bit more surprising is that there weren't some MORE mainstrem products in there, think MARKETING, product placement, MONEY!!.

How much would Hersheys have paid if she was munching on a Hershey bar and not some Apollo Japanese candybar?

Couldn't they have put some Planters nuts in there?

I suppose they could have put some Planters nuts in there, but I absolutely would have preferred to see some Poindexter Nut Company nuts down there instead.

http://64.202.162.29/images/Img10.gif

While that shot of Kate in the duct is nice, I just don't get what the massive infatuation with her is unless it is the "bad girl" image. She's cute but not all that and her character isn't overly compelling/hot like Jennifer Garner's character on Alias.

Different strokes for different folks I guess. I find "Kate" more attractive than "Sydney".

Kate over Sydney - any day of the week.

The scope would have continued to function without power - a possible situation if an attack took place. On the other hand, maybe it's a device Desmond himself rigged up.


Hmm.. looks too advanced to be self-rigged. Where would he get those pre-made mirrors and other parts?

Also, the mirrors in the system seem to be electrically controlled for positioning. So the idea that they are using a mirror/telescope system for surveillance instead of traditional CCTV doesn't make a lot of sense in terms of being unpowered. If the power goes out the mirrors will not be moveable.

The equipment (computer, etc.) in the bunker is not so old that it was before the time when CCTVs became popular for security monitoring... I think CCTV dates back at least into the early 1960s and probably earlier.

So what are some other possible reasons for using an odd system like they have? Is there some electromagnetic interference in the area that would prevent a normal CCTV system from working properly? Or some other reason?

Anyone else thinking that Desmond is not the first who has had to be in this hatch? I forget the story about the guy who had an unlucky streak with those numbers, but I wonder if he too spent some time in the hatch. Then the crazy guy at the ward, leading to Hurley knowing the numbers.

TZ

Anyone else have that "Make Your Own Kind of Music" stuck in their head now? REALLY ANNOYING!
For the love of God will people stop mentioning that forsaken song? I have to blast a Blink-182 song in my headphones to make it go away! :eek:

Because of "spoiler" issues I can't go into too much detail here but... as I said in a previous (mod-deleted) post... I now believe this is nothing more than a holo-deck program running on the Star Ship "Enterprise" that is out of control and has caused a rift in the "space-time" continuum.

This is what I think also - maybe they are in some kind of controlled parallel universe. It would explain a lot of things:

-The cause of the plane crash (maybe it came to close or broke through)
-The enormous magnetic field pulling the key around Jack's neck.
-The logos everywhere, especially the shark. IIRC sharks migrate thousands of miles. What about all the other sharks out in the ocean? Why would these sharks (with logos) just stay circling the island for 16 years?

am i the only one that thinks there was a reason that the only "name brand" food was the apollo chocolate bar

What about the Safeway brand Hot Cocoa immediately to the right of the swtich?

Did anyone else see the red light (kinda looked like a laser pointer) on Michael when he was on the raft. ?

The crazy guy who kept repeating the numbers heard them at a military listening outpost.

To me, from this one comment from Desmond:


There's still a world up there?

(I may be off a bit on the exact wording, but...), it seemed like this bunker was like some sort of a fall-out shelter (from nuclear/biological attack), he thought that the island was the only place left in the world (they were flying from Sydney to LA, and he was surprised), and he was injecting himself with something to keep himself from becoming sick/infected.



How about this for Dharma?
Deranged
Humans
Attacking
Real
Mean
A$$holes

Just kidding. Haha.


That's intersting about the logo on the shark. I'll have to go back and see if I can turn up the brightness and see the logo. I wonder if the logoed shark pic is a fake though. I'll have to see it on my DVR to believe it.

Maybe the "Apollo" candy bar is some reverse product placement. They build interest in the candy bar, then license the rights to Hershey or Nestle for production/distribution. ;)

OK, I'm typing this and editing this as I read the posts since yesterday.

One theory:

The rungs on the ladder leading out were removed by Desmond after he was tempted to leave the hatch one too many time. He climbed up and removed them little by little as he climbed down. Don't know why he left the top few feet

Other random thoughts:

I think the point of the brief time Michael and Sawyer were at sea was to emphasize the point that the island will not let you leave.

And for those of you who say there's no way Hurly's fitting/getting down the shaft, you're forgetting that he's quite "spry!"

As far as the countdown from 108 being triggered by something else? Did the timer have enough digits to show minutes and seconds for a 108 minute timer? If not, it may not show seconds until it gets down to at least 99 minutes (or maybe 9 minutes). So it would not move until the first minute is up. The timer on our oven only gives second resolution during the last minute.

And judging by this google search:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22What+did+one+snowman+say+to+the+other+snowman%3F%22 the correct (or most popular) answer to the snowman question is: "Do/can you smell carrots?" as several other folks pointed out.

Perhaps the "other others" we saw in the preview are the tail section survivors and either:
1- They all went nuts but what's-her-name was immune (Like Russoue) so she became the "outcast" and locked-up.
2- Only What's-her-name got sick, and the rest are OK, so they locked her up. Like Ethan, however, she can act like she's normal if she wants (or she's gotten better).

...and I like dlipetz she's just a bad girl like Sawyer theory too.

There are several power generating shcemes that use the tides and/or waves f the ocean to generate power. Perhaps this is where thepower cable is running to? (MENTIONED BY HERFAN)

The box of candy looking generic is common, at least in the military. As some folks pointed out before, the military often uses brand name stuff (mars bars, M&Ms, and Skittles, for example) in their MRE's, becuase it both adds comfort to the users, and repackiging the individual packages (or having them custompackaged to begin with) is counterproductive/inefficient. However, repackaging the BOX they come in is a different story. I've seen many generic boxes with "name brand" stuff on the inside.

I kept some of the ideas others mentioned in here, but this post'd been three times longer if I'd a posted cold!

What about the Safeway brand Hot Cocoa immediately to the right of the swtich?

Did anyone else see the red light (kinda looked like a laser pointer) on Michael when he was on the raft. ?

Hmm, missed the safeway.

Yea, i saw the laser, what's the deal w/ that?

Threads like this must drive the Lost prop masters crazy. Anything out of place/time will cause massive speculation about the show. Funny.

So, does anyone think this episode was a step back. I SURE hope that LOST is not moving in the direction of "make it simple for people to understand" and capture a greater market share model.

Last season, they captured a demo-graphic of people who were okay with suspense, and not knowing things, and having to THINK about things and wonder and speculate. Now, with this episode we are actually SEEING things, Desmond in the bunker, Desmond in the Stadium (in the same episode mind you, last season he would have been five episodes BACK and one would have had to REMEMBER that we had seen him) and we SEE the shark, whatever happened to the unknown, and we SEE the people "hunters", "others" what have you running to capture the swimmers and Jen running out. Seems pretty straight forward,

And THIS episode: We learned really nothing. We SAW 108 everywhere, it is like they are BANGING us over the head with it and not leading us down the path! If this turns into another action, hunt down, escape, how do we take their food series, they are going to lose their core audience and yeah, get the larger group that just doesn't care.

So, some of the things to notice. WOW, DHARMA on the shark, I hadn't caught that.

The Apollo candy, makes me think that this is some OLD candy, but what I find a bit more surprising is that there weren't some MORE mainstrem products in there, think MARKETING, product placement, MONEY!!.

How much would Hersheys have paid if she was munching on a Hershey bar and not some Apollo Japanese candybar?

Couldn't they have put some Planters nuts in there? I wonder if APPLE is getting a plug for the AII, or whatever it is.

While entertaining, this episode was a waste of an hour.
Everyones a critic. You should write your own show then.

Maybe that's the reason for the tremendous amount of Apple Cider and Apple Sauce in the storeroom. ;)Do I sense a Garden of Eden reference coming..? :)

When Locke was playing like he was the "one" the guy said something to him that surprised Locke. When he said that line my receiver dropped the signal and we didn't hear what he said. It was a key line and it's driving me crazy not knowing. What did the guy say?

That is when he asked Locke, "What did one snowman say to the other snowman?"

I guess I'm wrong, but the Apollo candy made me think of a long-term space program habitation experiment gone wrong. The simulated light sources, the geodesic dome, exercise stations, medical experiments, etc. And timeframe is an issue. Apollo ended in the 1972/73. Apple II/II+ arrives on scene in 1977~79. Also the weapons argue against US Gov installation..so to the Apple computers.

Maybe the Cold War, hidden (and forgotten) doomsday bunker line of thinking is better. After all….“On the Beach” and the show’s Australia connection?

Here is some speculation. I bet that "the others" (either the back of the plane others, or the others that were on the island already), will kill Desmond. Even if he is crazy, he is a source of alot of answers to what is going on. The producers will never let him live! :D

What about the Safeway brand Hot Cocoa immediately to the right of the swtich?

Did anyone else see the red light (kinda looked like a laser pointer) on Michael when he was on the raft. ?


The sharks have fricken Lasers on their heads!!!

Anyone else have that "Make Your Own Kind of Music" stuck in their head now? REALLY ANNOYING!Nope, I'm still trying to purge, "Ugly Rita Hurricane" from my brain .....

Anyone else have that "Make Your Own Kind of Music" stuck in their head now? REALLY ANNOYING!"Iteki" if you want to really drive yourself "nuts" go to Disney World and ride "It's a Small World!" :eek:

Ride IASW once at age 5 and all it takes is some moron to make a reference 35 years later and it's stuck in your head for a week. ;)

wow, we used to go on that just for the AC. :D

So who wants to volunteer to count the hash marks on the wall? :D

Nothing like a nice July - August day in Central Florida. ;)

I liked how Jin's English pronounciation suddenly improved at the end of the show:


Udders? :)Jin, was thinking about Kate :D

I don't think the stadium meeting was 16 years back. I don't see why the french chick wrecking on the island would have diddly squat to do with a stadium meeting.

Plus I find it unlikely that Jack would instantly recognize Desmond if there had been 16 years in between.

Plus, even with the wig Jack and his dad do not look anywhere near 16 years younger in the flashbacks. I mean think about it - a typical doctor doesn't start practicing in a high end position like Jack had at that hospital with an office and everything until he's at least like say 32 years old at around the earliest. So if the stadium thing happened when he was 32 years old at the earliest, if it is now 16 years later he would be 48. Does Jack look 48 to you?

A guy that runs Tour de Stad (sp?) to burn off steam might age pretty well. But yeah, 48 for Jack is a stretch. Since Daddy was head of the unit, perhaps he was able to accelerate Jack's career. And he does have a great deal of talent (if we can believe what his Dad says), so he may have moved up quickly.

It is the answer to life. Now we just need to come up with the question. ;)Remember the last time someone tried to come up with the ultimate question ... a crash landing by a bunch of cast-aways screwed up the experiment. :)

I think people are focusing too much on Apollo as a real Japanese brand of candybar. I have a feeling the symbolism is meant to be much more obvious.

Apollo was the Greek god of light, prophecy, music, medicine, and poetry.

Let the speculating continue.

Kate over Sydney - any day of the week.

I have to go with Syd on this one, but falling in love with either of them seems like a death sentence. One night stand is the way to go with those two. And even that is pushing it.

This is what I think also - maybe they are in some kind of controlled parallel universe. It would explain a lot of things:

-The cause of the plane crash (maybe it came to close or broke through)
-The enormous magnetic field pulling the key around Jack's neck.
-The logos everywhere, especially the shark. IIRC sharks migrate thousands of miles. What about all the other sharks out in the ocean? Why would these sharks (with logos) just stay circling the island for 16 years?

Genetically engineered to stay there I suppose.

Anyone else thinking that Desmond is not the first who has had to be in this hatch? I forget the story about the guy who had an unlucky streak with those numbers, but I wonder if he too spent some time in the hatch. Then the crazy guy at the ward, leading to Hurley knowing the numbers.

TZ

They heard the numbers on a radio transmission while on Navy duty in the Pacific

I have to go with Syd on this one, but falling in love with either of them seems like a death sentence. One night stand is the way to go with those two. And even that is pushing it.You mean... doing both in one night? I'm "up" for that challenge! ;)

When Locke was playing like he was the "one" the guy said something to him that surprised Locke. When he said that line my receiver dropped the signal and we didn't hear what he said. It was a key line and it's driving me crazy not knowing. What did the guy say?
Well, here's the closed captioning from the whole scene:


Desmond: ARE YOU? ARE YOU HIM?
Locke: YES. YES, I AM.
Desmond: I CAN'T BELIEVE IT. YOU'RE FINALLY HERE.
Locke: WELL...HERE I AM.
Desmond: WHO'S SHE?
Locke: SHE'S WITH ME.
Desmond: WHAT DID ONE SNOWMAN SAY TO THE OTHER SNOWMAN?
Locke: I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
Desmond: GET RID OF THE KNIFE. YOU'RE NOT HIM!
(knife clatters)
Locke: WE DIDN'T COME HERE TO HURT YOU.
Desmond: YEAH? THEN WHY DID YOU COME?
Locke: WE WERE IN A PLANE CRASH.
Desmond: WERE YOU NOW? AND WHEN WAS THAT?
Locke: 44 DAYS AGO.
Desmond: 44 DAYS? MOVE.
Locke: HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN DOWN HERE?
Desmond: SHUT IT. (to Kate) TIE HIM UP. DO IT!
Locke: WAIT, WAIT, WAIT. YOU'RE TYING UP THE WRONG PERSON.
Desmond: HOW'S THAT, BROTHER?
Locke: IT'S POINTLESS TO TIE ME UP. I'M NOT DANGEROUS. BUT HER, SHE'S A FUGITIVE.
Desmond: SO WHAT DOES THAT MAKE YOU THEN, BROTHER?
Locke: I'M A REGIONAL COLLECTIONS MANAGER FOR A CARDBOARD MANUFACTURER. BOXES, PRIMARILY.
Desmond: ALL RIGHT, THEN, BOX MAN, TIE HER UP.

That's intersting about the logo on the shark. I'll have to go back and see if I can turn up the brightness and see the logo. I wonder if the logoed shark pic is a fake though. I'll have to see it on my DVR to believe it.


I was the first to post about it (paused it right then and there and logged on to post it, pathetic I know). Trust me it's legit. Shows up clear as a bell if your brightness/contrast is set correctly.

I think people are focusing too much on Apollo as a real Japanese brand of candybar. I have a feeling the symbolism is meant to be much more obvious.

Apollo was the Greek god of light, prophecy, music, medicine, and poetry.

Let the speculating continue.

I could be wrong but i think i remember seeing a spaceship or shooting star or someting on the wrapper now that i think of it, i know the first thing i thought about when i seen it was the apollo lunar mission, which lead me to think maybe the chocolate was from the late 60's early 70's. Then kate ate it, so maybe its really from the 60's but it got there through a time machine!!

I was the first to post about it (paused it right then and there and logged on to post it, pathetic I know). Trust me it's legit. Shows up clear as a bell if your brightness/contrast is set correctly."Iteki" shows his true colors :)

Of course I had to rush upstairs and get on the computer last night to post the BIG NEWS the "other's" had finally been revealed! :rolleyes:

With my WAF making "fun of me" all the while! :o

"Iteki" if you want to really drive yourself "nuts" go to Disney World and ride "It's a Small World!" :eek:

you are an evil evil man

I was the first to post about it (paused it right then and there and logged on to post it, pathetic I know). Trust me it's legit. Shows up clear as a bell if your brightness/contrast is set correctly.


It went by real quick, so I may just not have noticed. I'll definitely go back and check. That's why I'm leaving the episodes on the DVR for a while, to go back and check things I missed.

And I'm pretty sure I have my br/ct set correctly, but you never know with some of the networks if they are off. I have to drop my brightness about 30 notches to get the black level on Battlestar Galactica on Sci-Fi correct.

"Iteki" shows his true colors :)

Of course I had to rush upstairs and get on the computer last night to post the BIG NEWS the "other's" had finally been revealed! :rolleyes:

With my WAF making "fun of me" all the while! :o

LOL my old laptop is down, so I actually had to do exactly that. My girlfriend was embarassed to know me :-)

You mean... doing both in one night? I'm "up" for that challenge! ;)
While that could be fun, Kate is far more attractive in the bad girl sense. She would probably do things you've never heard about. :D

While that could be fun, Kate is far more attractive in the bad girl sense. She would probably do things you've never heard about. :D

LOL I'll bet the CIA has a yearlong course on the art of love. My money's on Syd :-)

Ok, ok.... Syd and Kate in a jello wrestling death match, clothes optional. I'm in, who else? ;) I'd probably be like Blue from "Old School" before it was over!

Can someone confirm if Desmond had Locke type 42 in the sequence code?

I remember him type in 23, but not 42.

While that could be fun, Kate is far more attractive in the bad girl sense. She would probably do things you've never heard about. :DRight. As we all know she likes to "rob banks!" ;)

Ok, ok.... Syd and Kate in a jello wrestling death match, clothes optional. I'm in, who else? ;) I'd probably be like Blue from "Old School" before it was over!Damn. Get me on that Island!

Can someone confirm if Desmond had Locke type 42 in the sequence code?

I remember him type in 23, but not 42.


Yes, and they all get added up to 108, and the timer above resets to 108.

Yes, and they all get added up to 108, and the timer above resets to 108.


He should just type in: 99 99 99 99 99 99

That way he wouldn't have to do it so often!

:D ;)

This is not intended as a spoiler.....only a theory

A co-worker and myself were talking about the show and he had a great theory.

What if the guy locked up in the mental/psycho ward with Hurley is the guy who was supposed to replace Desmond? Technically he is the one who started the whole numbers thing. Hurley just kept overhearing him say them. Maybe this guy tried to spill the beans on whatever operation was going on at the island, and since it sounds so obsurd they locked him up in a mental institution.

With this said, Everyone saw Hurley down in the capsule/bunker/whatever. I bet Hurley will be able to answer Desmonds riddle. He will either know the answer himself or he will have to think back to the mental ward and remember another saying the psycho guy was rambling off.

Either way.....Hurley is the man. Maybe Desmond will tell him, and only him, all the secrets of the island.

Yes, and they all get added up to 108, and the timer above resets to 108.Maybe there are 108 statues filled with Heroin? That should keep Charlie going for awhile. ;)

This is not intended as a spoiler.....only a theory

A co-worker and myself were talking about the show and he had a great theory.

What if the guy locked up in the mental/psycho ward with Hurley is the guy who was supposed to replace Desmond? Technically he is the one who started the whole numbers thing. Hurley just kept overhearing him say them. Maybe this guy tried to spill the beans on whatever operation was going on at the island, and since it sounds so obsurd they locked him up in a mental institution.

With this said, Everyone saw Hurley down in the capsule/bunker/whatever. I bet Hurley will be able to answer Desmonds riddle. He will either know the answer himself or he will have to think back to the mental ward and remember another saying the psycho guy was rambling off.

Either way.....Hurley is the man. Maybe Desmond will tell him, and only him, all the secrets of the island.

Interesting, but didn't the guy in the psych ward with Hurley hear the numbers while listening to a radio transmission on a military outpost?

FWIW, David Fury said they're making it up as they go along, that they really have no detailed master plan.

Two points on this subject:

1) David Fury left the show disgruntled, so what he says about the other producers' plans should be taken with a grain of salt.

2) Fury is coming from a background of working with Joss Whedon, whose shows were plotted and mapped out before each season to a degree not seen anywhere else in television production. By those standards, any other working environment with more degree of flexibility would seem like the people around him were "making it up as they go along". From his perspective and given his preferences, it may have seemed that way, but that doesn't mean there isn't a master plan.

Oh, and a third point. Any decent storyteller will tell you that it's about the journey, not the destination.

Anyone think that this was a test island for say an Atomic Bomb, or something similar?

Also, based on an experiment I did way back in grade school on a super-conductor/super-collider, the magnetic forces would be strong like what Jack witnessed. Dumb thought (after seeing a bit more of the "bunker"), but figured I'd throw it out on the table. :D

I am also shocked that nobody mentioned the near death experience Kate had in the air duct! I know we're all focused on that wonderful camera angle, and if you were watching it in HD, the sweat dripping off her mammies!, but the fact that Desmond fired off a round right next to her head was pretty wicked.

Too much weird stuff going on here that I could spend all day thinking about it. I need to relax and just enjoy the ride...but this is fun as hell! :)

I love this show!

I can't verify, but was that Desmond that could be seen walking by Michael as he was handing the bag with the bear in it to Walt's mother? Kind of looked like it.

Either way.....Hurley is the man. Maybe Desmond will tell him, and only him, all the secrets of the island.He reminded me of OJ the way he ran through the airport to catch that plane! :)

Hi All,

Well another episode where we saw a lot, but it did not progress very far. We've been promised many answers by the 5th show this season. Lets hope that is true.

"Adrift" started slightly back in time. I don't mean the "Previously on LOST" and I think it was to get the 2 storylines in sync. Though by the time it ended we were at the same place below ground that we were last week. Its true we saw more detail, but I hop this isn't a trend for the show.

Desmond seems to be waiting for someone and by the look of that wall he has been there a long time. His code phrase to Locke is an old children's joke. What did one snowman say to the other snowman? I smell carrots, or a variation of that. So the part about the Quarantine on the inside of the hatch door seems to hold water. He asked if there was still a world out there.
Does anyone know the name of the song by the Momma's and the Poppa's he is playing?
Just like a woman to go after chocolate with all that food, . Apollo is the Greek god of light; god of prophesy and poetry and music and healing. While looking that up I learned something new about the origins of the acronym for the Apollo space program. America's Program for Orbital and Lunar Landing Operations

There was a lot of the blame game going on out on the water and I'm sure everyone loved Sawyer digging out the bullet from his shoulder. I knew as soon as he took the magazine out of the pistol those bullets were going into the drink. Since when did Jin speak English? Hunters, hunters....

Here were some observation during Adrift.

The mural has a lot of things in it including the 108 inside a sun like pattern. That same pattern was on the gift bag Mike gave little Walt that had a stuffed polar bear in it. He then asks his Mom "Does he like bears?"

The Dharma Logo Locke found underground was also on all the food labels in the store room that Kate was in. Every item in the stock room had what looked like a stock number but they all had the same one DI 9FFTR 731. Is there some meaning to this or is it just LOST fever???
Did you also see the Dharma logo on the tail of the shark when Sawyer was swimming toward the pontoon part of the raft? It's there if you slow down where the shark passes in front of the camera.

The word Dharma has several interesting meaning;

Hinduism & Buddhism.
The principle or law that orders the universe.
Individual conduct in conformity with this principle.
The essential function or nature of a thing.
basic principles of the cosmos; also: an ancient sage in Hindu mythology worshipped as a god by some lower castes;
Hinduism. Individual obligation with respect to caste, social custom, civil law, and sacred law.
Buddhism. - One of the basic, minute elements from which all things are made.



Where was Jolene Blalock? I guess I don't recognize her with out pointy ears.

Wow DubC, good theory. Never thought of that.

I saw the red light on Michael as well, but thought is was the effect of unnatural lighting for the scene at sea. Seemed like a spotlight was on them the whole time.

Regarding the elaborate mirror setup in the bunker, my guess is that was a good way to avoid any light shining up thru the hatch. I'm still not sure why there would be no sign of light at the bottom of the shaft when Jack looks down. I would think that any source of light could be seen. And with there being water at the bottom, wouldn't shining a flashlight down have some sort of reflection. Me personally, I'd find a way to lower down a torch before going down there.

Still, show's got me hooked and I'm curious to see where the story goes. I can appreciate the alternate perspective, but would rather have the story advance. Got a feeling next week is gonna do the same with Jin and how he got back on the island / got captured.

If the story's being made up as they go along, I think it would make for good entertainment.

While that could be fun, Kate is far more attractive in the bad girl sense. She would probably do things you've never heard about. :D

i met kate, er uh evangeline at disney world in May, no, not on 'it's a small world' but at the Kilimanjaro Club at the Animal Kingdom Lodge (she was with monahan, btw) she was drop dead gorgeous in person. no make up (no shoes for that matter- maybe a precursor to locke). a very natural beauty and very friendly - and i haven't stopped thinking of her since! :o

This is not intended as a spoiler.....only a theory

A co-worker and myself were talking about the show and he had a great theory.

What if the guy locked up in the mental/psycho ward with Hurley is the guy who was supposed to replace Desmond? Technically he is the one who started the whole numbers thing. Hurley just kept overhearing him say them. Maybe this guy tried to spill the beans on whatever operation was going on at the island, and since it sounds so obsurd they locked him up in a mental institution.


Or it could be the other way around. Desmond replaced the crazy guy, thus him knowing the numbers, and the "government" locked him away for knowing this info.

Good thought.

It is the answer to life. Now we just need to come up with the question. ;)
I thought 42 was the answer to life - and it is one of THE numbers...hmmmmm...we still need to come up with the question.

i met kate, er uh evangeline at disney world in May, no, not on 'it's a small world' but at the Kilimanjaro Club at the Animal Kingdom Lodge (she was with monahan, btw) she was drop dead gorgeous in person. no make up (no shoes for that matter- maybe a precursor to locke). a very natural beauty and very friendly - and i haven't stopped thinking of her since! :oDude... I'm a DVC member, been to WDW about 30 times and have never been that lucky. "Eye-candy" aside, "Lost" is a great show... even "The Academy" agrees!

Hi All,


Desmond seems to be waiting for someone and by the look of that wall he has been there a long time.

ALREADY DISCUSSED

His code phrase to Locke is an old children's joke. What did one snowman say to the other snowman? I smell carrots, or a variation of that.

ALREADY DISCUSSED

So the part about the Quarantine on the inside of the hatch door seems to hold water. He asked if there was still a world out there.

ALREADY DISCUSSED

Does anyone know the name of the song by the Momma's and the Poppa's he is playing?

ALREADY DISCUSSED, Make Your Own Kind of Music

Just like a woman to go after chocolate with all that food, . Apollo is the Greek god of light; god of prophesy and poetry and music and healing.

ALREADY DISCUSSED

While looking that up I learned something new about the origins of the acronym for the Apollo space program. America's Program for Orbital and Lunar Landing Operations

Interesting

Since when did Jin speak English? Hunters, hunters....

ALREADY DISCUSSED (He said OTHERS)


The mural has a lot of things in it including the 108 inside a sun like pattern. That same pattern was on the gift bag Mike gave little Walt

Hadn't noticed that...

The Dharma Logo Locke found underground was also on all the food labels in the store room that Kate was in. Every item in the stock room had what looked like a stock number but they all had the same one DI 9FFTR 731. Is there some meaning to this or is it just LOST fever???

ALREADY DISCUSSED

Did you also see the Dharma logo on the tail of the shark when Sawyer was swimming toward the pontoon part of the raft? It's there if you slow down where the shark passes in front of the camera.

ALREADY DISCUSSED

The word Dharma has several interesting meaning;

Hinduism & Buddhism.
The principle or law that orders the universe.
Individual conduct in conformity with this principle.
The essential function or nature of a thing.
basic principles of the cosmos; also: an ancient sage in Hindu mythology worshipped as a god by some lower castes;
Hinduism. Individual obligation with respect to caste, social custom, civil law, and sacred law.
Buddhism. - One of the basic, minute elements from which all things are made.

ALREADY DISCUSSED


Where was Jolene Blalock? I guess I don't recognize her with out pointy ears.

ALREADY DISCUSSED





Some interesting observations, but it would help if you actually read the thread, we've discussed most of those points already.

Edit:

I'm not discouraging you from contributing, it would just be better if you read what had already been discussed so we can avoid duplicate discussions.

You know how computer games use alternative means to spell certain words, like LEET, or pwned?

I wonder if "DI 9FFTR 731" doesn't mean something else, like "Die After..."

Either way.....Hurley is the man. Maybe Desmond will tell him, and only him, all the secrets of the island.

This may partly be the case but IMO, the message I get from the dialog given Desmond, he doesn't have any connection with the black smoke or the thing that pulled Locke toward the hole. If he did, he would have recognized Locke. He may know about the black smoke, which may be a contributing reason for the quarantine, but he certainly is not the generator of it. He also wouldn't have any contribution toward any of the mysterious events affecting the survivors or he would have known they were out there. I mean, the guy seemed clueless that there were people walking around over his head until the hatch blew.

No, I think Desmond is not the key to all that the island has to offer.

This may partly be the case but IMO, the message I get from the dialog given Desmond, he doesn't have any connection with the black smoke or the thing that pulled Locke toward the hole. If he did, he would have recognized Locke.
But the only part of Locke that was dragged into the hole was his feet - and Locke wasn't wearing the boots in the bunker :D

You know how computer games use alternative means to spell certain words, like LEET, or pwned?

I wonder if "DI 9FFTR 731" doesn't mean something else, like "Die After..."

Expiration date? Do Not Eat After 7/31. :p

Sydney certainly has the outfits. If you don't like what she is wearing or her hair style, wait 15 minutes.

For those of you checking the DVR for the logo'd shark, it is at the :48 minute mark after Sawyer gets into the water, but before he hands Mike the gun.

And the distances/speed are definitely off in that scene. You can see how far the pontoon is and Sawyer takes about 35 seconds swimming (does only use his right arm - but kicking like hell) that distance and Mike covers it in 10 sec. only slapping at the water with his right hand.

Or it could be the other way around. Desmond replaced the crazy guy, thus him knowing the numbers, and the "government" locked him away for knowing this info. .
And his story about being at a "listening post" could be true and the bunker was used for that purpose or it could be his "cover" as to not tell friends and family exactly what he was doing.

With all the focus on numbers no one has commented on the one number mentioned in this episode, "44". When Locke was asked how long they have been on the island he replys "44 days." If we were dealing with a virus or disease I would think Desmond would have more of a reaction. He was a little incredulous when Locke told him none of the survivors was acting crazy though.

The one thing that puzzles me is why the writers would use a number that is not part of the sequence, they could have had us going crazy if they had Locke reply "42 days." :)

2) Fury is coming from a background of working with Joss Whedon, whose shows were plotted and mapped out before each season to a degree not seen anywhere else in television production.

Two words: Babylon 5.

Anyone else have that "Make Your Own Kind of Music" stuck in their head now? REALLY ANNOYING!

Yes. I even burned the mp3 onto CD so I can play it in the car...no sense singing it in my head when I can karaoke along with it out loud... :D

~Dan

With all the focus on numbers no one has commented on the one number mentioned in this episode, "44". When Locke was asked how long they have been on the island he replys "44 days." If we were dealing with a virus or disease I would think Desmond would have more of a reaction. He was a little incredulous when Locke told him none of the survivors was acting crazy though.

The one thing that puzzles me is why the writers would use a number that is not part of the sequence, they could have had us going crazy if they had Locke reply "42 days." :)


44 days and 44 survivors.

I didn't see where anyone had discussed the song that Desmond plays. "Make Your Own Kind of Music" by the Mamas and the Papas. One interesting verse in the song goes:

You're gonna be knowing
the loneliest kind of lonely.
It may be rough goin',
just to do your thing's
the hardest thing to do.

(Maybe that's why Desmond likes it.)

Plus that was the name of a short-lived TV show in 1971. Interesting.

am i the only one that thinks there was a reason that the only "name brand" food was the apollo chocolate bar (which is a japanese chocolate company)??
Product placement?


everything else in the room looked like goverment/generic food, just standards "OLIVES", etc
The DHARMA seal was all over the place...


why the hell did she find it neccessary to take 10 extra chocolate bars for later!!!

C'mon...women love chocolate...

Stashing all those chocolate bars in her pants lens a whole new meaning to the term "candy-ass"... :D

~Dan

Or it could be the other way around. Desmond replaced the crazy guy, thus him knowing the numbers, and the "government" locked him away for knowing this info.

Good thought.


Does sound better. Do you think Hurley will know the answer to the riddle? If so, what do you think will happen next?

So, why is Desmond running like hell through the jungle in the previews?

Does sound better. Do you think Hurley will know the answer to the riddle? If so, what do you think will happen next?

Well, its a joke and not really a riddle. Considering that Hurley was hired for his great sense of comedic timing, I think we will have the answer.

So, why is Desmond running like hell through the jungle in the previews?

I say this half joking and half serious:

He is running like hell because he is finally free. Hurley knew the answer, and to Desmond that means he is relieved of duty and free to go. He just can not wait to go swimming!!

So, why is Desmond running like hell through the jungle in the previews?

He is trying to get his candy bars back from Hurley?

I wonder what would happen if 4 9 14 16 23 42 was typed in instead of 4 8 15 16 23 42?

I can just see somebody being sarcastic and telling him they were there for a cruise from Hawaii and the last ship of the season leaves in 10 minutes.

I say this half joking and half serious:

He is running like hell because he is finally free. Hurley knew the answer, and to Desmond that means he is relieved of duty and free to go. He just can not wait to go swimming!!

Half-serious:

I can envision Hurley descending through the hatch into the bunker looking for his missing compadres, runs into Desmond who asks him the snowman question, Hurley responds with the right answer, Desmond excitedly "turns the keys over" to Hurley and exits, leaving Hurley and Locke to try and figure out what to do as the bunker alarm system starts to sound.

This could tie into the previews of Hurley gawking at the food supplies and Locke questioning what is to be done out loud...

Being as popular as this show has become, it may have to be stretched out for years and "answers may come slow as molasses in winter".

I don't think we'll know all the ultimate answers for a LONG time due to this.

We're gonna have to be patient and just enjoy the flashbacks, character development, etc, etc.

While that shot of Kate in the duct is nice, I just don't get what the massive infatuation with her is unless it is the "bad girl" image. She's cute but not all that and her character isn't overly compelling/hot like Jennifer Garner's character on Alias.
Well, Jennifer Garner doesn't really do anything for me.

To each his own...

~Dan

I didn't see where anyone had discussed the song that Desmond plays. "Make Your Own Kind of Music" by the Mamas and the Papas. One interesting verse in the song goes:

You're gonna be knowing
the loneliest kind of lonely.
It may be rough goin',
just to do your thing's
the hardest thing to do.

(Maybe that's why Desmond likes it.)

Plus that was the name of a short-lived TV show in 1971. Interesting.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6236211&highlight=cass#post6236211

I'm liking this theory a lot: Hurley is the "him" that Desmond has been waiting for; I see it unfolding similar to dlipetz's "half-serious" post above.

Any decent storyteller will tell you that it's about the journey, not the destination.

Absolutely. Lost gets the important stuff right, like having compelling characters in interesting situations, those character development flashbacks, and there's good minute-to-minute stuff happening. And so far the mysterious elements keeps things nice and tense.

I think the fear is that if they're just making up the mysterious stuff as they go, things will fall apart at the end, like X-Files kind of did. If that happens with Lost, I think it will still be an entertaining show, but that'll be a bit disappointing.

To me, the ideal was Babylon 5, which was clearly designed up front in great detail, and it was very satifying to see everything come together.

On the Lost extras, they did mention that at some point a 5-6 year outline was worked out, so I'm hopeful. But yeah, the destination certainly isn't everything.

I think I figured something out.

Make Your Own Kind of Music

is an anagram for:

"I'm OK, I f**ked your snowman."

I was the first to post about it (paused it right then and there and logged on to post it, pathetic I know). Trust me it's legit. Shows up clear as a bell if your brightness/contrast is set correctly.

I saw the shark swim by, fleetingly caught the logo out of the corner of my eye, and in surprise, burst out "No way!"

Had to back up the TiVo, and sure enough——Way!

~Dan

I think I figured something out.

Make Your Own Kind of Music

is an anagram for:

"I'm OK, I f**ked your snowman."

You seem to be especially adept at this skill.... remind me never to play Boggle with you. :D

Interesting, but didn't the guy in the psych ward with Hurley hear the numbers while listening to a radio transmission on a military outpost?

Maybe, he only claimed he heard it on the radio, since explaining it would be too difficult. You gotta admit, the bunker sure looks like an "outpost"!

I think the guy in the psych ward with Hurley, and the guy Hurley went to see in Australia, were the guys in the hole, that Desmond relieved...

~Dan

You seem to be especially adept at this skill.... remind me never to play Boggle with you. :D

..... or let me anywhere near your snowmen. :D

It sounded like Desmond had been waiting patiently to be rescued instead of replaced unless replacements regularly blow the hatch up with dynamite when they arrive. So I'm guessing it was built for a long-term purpose (due to the amount of supplies) and something went horribly wrong.

I would guess that Ethan was originally in the bunker with Desmond taking the boosters. He didn't look much like "The Others".

Two words: Babylon 5."Vir, Londo you "moon-faced assassin of joy" ;)

I really get the feeling there's a bunch of frustrated girlfriends/wives/significant others/ of some of the posters in this thread that are secretly pining for a bit more foreplay from their men ;). I'll bet some of you immediately read the last chapter of books just to find out how things turn out too right? What's the rush? Slow down and enjoy the show a little. I thought last night's ep was great. Personally I like the time shifting nature of that kind of ep. Reminds me a bit of the short lived show Boomtown. Finding out things that at first blush were seemingly random and inconsequential that turn out to have significance (like the "shot to the air" by Desmond to persuade Jack he meant business nearly hitting Kate in the duct) makes for interesting viewing.

I really think last night's ep could be considered a "housekeeping" ep of sorts, catching the multiple plot lines back up and filling in some details as well. From comments made by several of the actors at the Emmy's, it sounded like EP 3 was going to be "the one" where much beans are spilled so the more anxious of you should be temporarily placated at least for a week anyway. I'm sure you'll be back to bitching again the following week though :).


I think I figured something out.

Make Your Own Kind of Music

is an anagram for:

"I'm OK, I f**ked your snowman."Now thats a chilling thought!! ;)

BTW, Kate all the way in my book. I've never seen the attraction of Jen Garner myself.


ron

It sounded like Desmond had been waiting patiently to be rescued instead of replaced unless replacements regularly blow the hatch up with dynamite when they arrive. So I'm guessing it was built for a long-term purpose (due to the amount of supplies) and something went horribly wrong.
All those supplies in the storeroom, and not a case of toilet paper to be found... :eek:

~Dan

[QUOTE=mr2828]Hmm.. looks too advanced to be self-rigged. Where would he get those pre-made mirrors and other parts?

Also, the mirrors in the system seem to be electrically controlled for positioning. So the idea that they are using a mirror/telescope system for surveillance instead of traditional CCTV doesn't make a lot of sense in terms of being unpowered. If the power goes out the mirrors will not be moveable.


[QUOTE]

Try this, In Ep 1, we see Desmond move the mirrors, we see him do it again last night. My take is this bunker has more than 2 main corridors, and the mirrors line up lilke a periscope without a shell to look where he wants to look.
Why? because there are multiple entrances, that' why. 100% Speculation

because there are multiple entrances, that' why. 100% Speculation
Desmond never answered Locke's question about other entrances...

We see, in the previews, Desmond outside in the jungle. I'm thinking he probably didn't climb Locke's cable (rappelling 50 feet is easy, climbing not so much...), but used the front door...That's probably how Hurley gets in, too...

~Dan

Some interesting observations, but it would help if you actually read the thread, we've discussed most of those points already.

Edit:

I'm not discouraging you from contributing, it would just be better if you read what had already been discussed so we can avoid duplicate discussions. ARE YOU HIM? :eek:

The Dharma logo is a hexagram with part of the ying and yang symbol removed from the center for the name.

It will be interesting to see if they kept true to the show and used "The numbers" on it.

http://members.aol.com/tig550908/i_hexagramkey.htm

ARE YOU HIM? :eek:
I smell carrots...

So, why is Desmond running like hell through the jungle in the previews?


Ugh, He's been locked inside a bunker for 16-17 years and it's good to be outside? :cool:

I would guess that Ethan was originally in the bunker with Desmond taking the boosters. He didn't look much like "The Others".Right. The bunker was designed to support two people, Ethan was Desmond's "partner" who must have gone crazy and then escaped, and then he just happened to run into the survivors. Being all "hopped-up" with the "juice" that he and Desmond inject themselves with might explain how Ethan had super-human strength and agility when he nearly killed Jack and hanged Charlie.. Now that Desmond is well on his way to going insane himself, John Locke & Kate, remember he said she is with him, are ready to take their place. John Locke and Hurley know the numbers to remain safe. It was Locke who became obsessed with opening the hatch and unfortunately for Kate, she insisted on tagging along.

Maybe the name "John Locke" really is what one Snowman says to another?

I'm wondering what was in those wooden boxes Kate stepped on. They seemed to linger on them a bit more than they needed to. There was some kind of rope handle on them. Perhaps wine to go along with the new wine uncorker?

.

The boxes she stepped on were labeled "legumes".
Good thing Kate didn't spill the beans!

ARE YOU HIM? :eek:

ARE YOU HE

lol

Darn bad grammar!

Also thanks, but I swear I can't make a thing out on it. All I see are two bright areas. Where I am supposed to look?

Thanks.

Adjust your contrast.

[QUOTE=CPanther95]What did one snowman say to the other snowman?

What happened to your snowballs?

anyone else notice last night that the shark had that logo on it? The logo that's on all the food in the hatch. The showed a quick underwater shot of the shark swimming by and right on the back before the tail was the logo.

(I'm guessing) The island is owned and operated by some corporation and these sharks are branded (or genetically created) by this company as a type of security system.

And how was the last shot of the episode, huh? Seeing the others approaching was so awesome and creepy--it made the whole episode worth the watch.

New Title for LOST. "Lord of the Flies" for Dummies.

anyone else notice last night that the shark had that logo on it? The logo that's on all the food in the hatch. The showed a quick underwater shot of the shark swimming by and right on the back before the tail was the logo.


Anyone else notice that some people post w/o ready any of this thread? I realize that this is a HUGE thread, but at least try to make a effort to read the last few pages....the logo on the shark has been a huge topic.

Not picking on you celluloideyes, just trying to get everyone to read at least the last few pages of the thread before posting. :cool:

anyone else notice last night that the shark had that logo on it? The logo that's on all the food in the hatch. The showed a quick underwater shot of the shark swimming by and right on the back before the tail was the logo.

(I'm guessing) The island is owned and operated by some corporation and these sharks are branded (or genetically created) by this company as a type of security system.

And how was the last shot of the episode, huh? Seeing the others approaching was so awesome and creepy--it made the whole episode worth the watch.

Sweet mother of mercy

[QUOTE=mr2828]Hmm.. looks too advanced to be self-rigged. Where would he get those pre-made mirrors and other parts?

Also, the mirrors in the system seem to be electrically controlled for positioning. So the idea that they are using a mirror/telescope system for surveillance instead of traditional CCTV doesn't make a lot of sense in terms of being unpowered. If the power goes out the mirrors will not be moveable.


[QUOTE]

Try this, In Ep 1, we see Desmond move the mirrors, we see him do it again last night. My take is this bunker has more than 2 main corridors, and the mirrors line up lilke a periscope without a shell to look where he wants to look.
Why? because there are multiple entrances, that' why. 100% Speculation

Now of course I hope the undergound area is hugely more extensive than what we've seen so far, since underground cities and stuff like that really get me hot, BUT your point doesn't really explain why not use a regular CCTV system. A CCTV system can cover a much larger set of areas than a mirror system.

If the bunker was originally built around 1970 (the records and older computer tape systems might date around then... the Apple II is more like 1981 or thereabouts though), CCTV systems were the standard surveillance method. So why choose a weird mirror system instead?

anyone else notice last night that the shark had that logo on it? The logo that's on all the food in the hatch. The showed a quick underwater shot of the shark swimming by and right on the back before the tail was the logo.

(I'm guessing) The island is owned and operated by some corporation and these sharks are branded (or genetically created) by this company as a type of security system.

And how was the last shot of the episode, huh? Seeing the others approaching was so awesome and creepy--it made the whole episode worth the watch.

I'm taking the corporation angle on this one too. I also think that Desmond is "shooting up" with some type of medicine, because he asks Locke "How many of them are sick?" It's gotta be some kind of experiment gone wrong. Man this show is hurting my brain, so many questions!!! :confused:

If the bunker was originally built around 1970 (the records and older computer tape systems might date around then... the Apple II is more like 1981 or thereabouts though), CCTV systems were the standard surveillance method. So why choose a weird mirror system instead?


The spirits that appear can't be seen on cameras/tvs, only with the naked eye. :-)

The spirits that appear can't be seen on cameras/tvs, only with the naked eye. :-)

Ahh, but why arm yourself with traditional weapons then?

Thanks for all the recaps of the details... I really enjoy reading this thread as much as watching the show. :)

Just in case anyone is still wondering what Jin said in Korean before "Others"... He was telling Mike and Sawyer not to come his way and to go back. Not much.

As for "108"... This number actually comes up quite often in Buddhism (that I know). There is a phrase "108 agonies" (not sure the proper English translation) which describes all the agonies and anguishes that prevents people from reaching nirvana. So, this number seems to relate to "dharma" which, in Buddhism, refers to the "law" of the world or the essence of the universe/human.

As to the eight sets of split sticks... This one is actually from Taoism (or "Book of Changes"). Each stick of three ("trigram") can be whole or split. You can think of this as a bit. So three of them can have 8 (2^3) varieties. If you have two trigrams, then you get 64 variations. Each variation ("symbol") has a name and it represent a certain idea/state. They are often used in fortune telling in Far-East cultures.

Hong.

Ahh, but why arm yourself with traditional weapons then?


I was just joking my friend, I have no idea why, other than the fact that it looks cool when he uses it.

Both times I watched the first ep and they showed the mirror system my immediate thought was that it looked to be some kind of jury rigged system that was somehow built up using materials on hand in the bunker. It just does not look like something that was "designed in" when the bunker was first constructed too me. Unless of course Wallace from Wallace and Gromit designed the bunker :). It definitely has that "mousetrap" (http://www.toys2wish4.com/mousgambymil.html) kind feel to it...

ron

i've tried reading most of the posts since the episode, but you guys post too quickly. :P i know the joke was brought up quite alot, but didn't hurley tell that joke in season 1? when he was making using the manifest to list all the people there?

I have only read back a few pages since last nights episode, so I apologize if this has been broached. Did anyone think that the people that Jin called 'the others' are not actually them but the people from the back of the plane? They are armed just to contrast how the people from the front of the plane don't have any protection, except the guns.

Maybe they saw Jin coming on the island from the water, and being how none of them understand what he is saying, they tie him up. Somehow he escapes and that is when we see him running towards Sawyer and MIchael.

I know we see Michael talking to Michele Rodriguez, who sat at the rear of the plane, so I am thinking that it isn't the others.

About Kate's candy bar scene-

I don't think this is of great significance to the overall plot, but I found it interesting and haven't seen it mentioned yet...

From a much earlier post: "The Apollo candy, makes me think that this is some OLD candy..."

When she picks up the first Apollo bar, she turns it over before starting to open it, and on the back is a white square in which it says something like "Best By Oct 23 04". I take that to be a fairly current expiration date, in the context of the show's timeline. (Remember the line about the Red Sox winning the World Series in season 1? In real time we're just 44 days after the crash which may have been in mid-late 2004) Not sure how 'Oct' fits in but the rest is part of the "bad" numbers.

The producers must be having a ball inserting all these little easter eggs (and red herrings too...)

We'll see next week what happened to Jin on his trip back to the island and his time with the "others".

About Kate's candy bar scene-

I don't think this is of great significance to the overall plot, but I found it interesting and haven't seen it mentioned yet...

From a much earlier post: "The Apollo candy, makes me think that this is some OLD candy..."

When she picks up the first Apollo bar, she turns it over before starting to open it, and on the back is a white square in which it says something like "Best By Oct 23 04". I take that to be a fairly current expiration date, in the context of the show's timeline. (Remember the line about the Red Sox winning the World Series in season 1? In real time we're just 44 days after the crash which may have been in mid-late 2004) Not sure how 'Oct' fits in but the rest is part of the "bad" numbers.

The producers must be having a ball inserting all these little easter eggs (and red herrings too...)

Octo- prefix for 8!

Dude... I'm a DVC member, been to WDW about 30 times and have never been that lucky. "Eye-candy" aside, "Lost" is a great show... even "The Academy" agrees!

i take it you weren't there in May then! it was a shock to see the two of them together - i had a laugh. but i can honestly say that when i saw her i was mesmorized by her natural beauty- much better in real life i thought - she's also a petite little thing!

[QUOTE=SilverHemi03][QUOTE=mr2828]Hmm.. looks too advanced to be self-rigged. Where would he get those pre-made mirrors and other parts?

Also, the mirrors in the system seem to be electrically controlled for positioning. So the idea that they are using a mirror/telescope system for surveillance instead of traditional CCTV doesn't make a lot of sense in terms of being unpowered. If the power goes out the mirrors will not be moveable.

Now, if the area is very magnetic, both video cameras and TV's would have a lot of difficulty because of the magnetism. The mirror system beats that....

RE: mirror system.

Looks jerry-rigged to me also.
Also, it would be harder to spoof a mirror system and they do not short out.

v/r,
C-F

I have only read back a few pages since last nights episode, so I apologize if this has been broached. Did anyone think that the people that Jin called 'the others' are not actually them but the people from the back of the plane? They are armed just to contrast how the people from the front of the plane don't have any protection, except the guns.

Maybe they saw Jin coming on the island from the water, and being how none of them understand what he is saying, they tie him up. Somehow he escapes and that is when we see him running towards Sawyer and MIchael.

I know we see Michael talking to Michele Rodriguez, who sat at the rear of the plane, so I am thinking that it isn't the others.


I also think so too. I think someone posted a number of pages back about a theory of 5 groups on the island - Others, front of the plane survivors, rear of the plane survivors, Rousseau, and the bunker/Desmond.

In the shot near the end of the of last night's ep, when the people are coming over the hill, I paused it and noticed a girl in the back seemed to have tight, low-rise jeans - suggesting a more recent arrival.





When I got home today, I went back and checked 0:48 for the shark logo. Sure enough, it was right there. I guess it went by too quickly for us to notice last night.

And I thought it was funny, on the Apollo candy bar, it said "full of nuts" - maybe a reference to the crazy and sick "nuts" on the island...?

Not really a theory about 5 groups. That's what we know - it's only a matter of who belongs to which group.

Went back and watch one frame at a time while Kate was in the storeroom. Did anyone notice the 3 jars (plastic) to the right of the can of Olive Oil (with the jar of Apple Sauce on top)? The middle jar is different. Of all the jars/cans that you can see with the labels - only this middle jar has no numbers - only the octagon logo. And the logo has very distinct pattern for each of the 8 positions. Almost like stylized letters; spelling out some name.

I saw those, kinda looked like that orange popcorn salt. But the logo looked like all the others.

I would guess that Ethan was originally in the bunker with Desmond taking the boosters. He didn't look much like "The Others".

If Ethan was with Desmond why the hell would he leave, you've seen Desmond seems like hes scared of the outside. What if Ethan was supposed to be Desmonds replacement and could just never find the hatch?

Because even a pregnant Claire is better looking than Desmond. :)

About the snowman joke:

My wife said that mike sent a card to walt with that joke in it and that hurley used it. Correct?

I don't remember that - it's the kind of joke that I'd expect to have heard as a kid - but never did. When someone posted the answer here, I laughed my ass off. If it was in the show before, I completely missed it.

Whats black, white and red all over?

A penguin with a sunburn.

"Make Your Own Kind of Music" by the Mamas and the Papas

Actually, it was done by Cass Elliot, post M&P.

You can play a sample from the Mama Cass album on Amazon - more than enough to keep it stuck in your head for awhile.

You can play a sample from the Mama Cass album on Amazon - more than enough to keep it stuck in your head for awhile.

Ah yes, but what happens if you play that sample BACKWARDS?

I saw those, kinda looked like that orange popcorn salt. But the logo looked like all the others.
The logo does appear to be the same on all the labels but - the pattern is different for each of the eight patterns. I think it a stylized letter pattern spelling out some corporate name.

What did one snowman say to the other snowman? Snow man's an island. ;)

Whats black, white and red all over?

A penguin with a sunburn.

That was it!

Thanks!

I didn't notice this theory mentioned (forgive me if I overlooked it) but I'm guessing that the island, or at least the bunker, was submerged for some time as part of the "experiment" or whatever else is going on there. That would also explain how the Black Rock landed up so far on dry land. And the area in the bunker that had the "bio-dome" look could have been windows to see in to the water. The odd part of this theory is wondering how the vegetation grew back so quickly after being underwater. But if Locke's legs can work and Jack's fiancee got her leg function back, who knows what's possible here? Oh well. With the appearance of the shark on the "Dharma" payroll, I've started thinking more about the water surrounding the island.

Just something I've started wondering about.

I didn't notice this theory mentioned (forgive me if I overlooked it) but I'm guessing that the island, or at least the bunker, was submerged for some time as part of the "experiment" or whatever else is going on there. That would also explain how the Black Rock landed up so far on dry land. And the area in the bunker that had the "bio-dome" look could have been windows to see in to the water. With the appearance of the shark on the "Dharma" payroll, I've started thinking more about the water surrounding the island.

Just something I've started wondering about.

The whole island being able to go underwater is an interesting idea, but as I've brought up previously the Black Rock is a very old boat design with slaves aboard - this implies it was sailing probably in the 18th century (I guess). If the island bunker already existed way back then, who the heck built it? Aliens?

I don't remember exactly...what was the bio-dome area looking at? You would assume a viewing area like that would be overlooking a large area. How big could it be if it was 50 ft underground? A cave system? Possible linking up with the cave that the survivors are staying in?

Hi All,
The mural has a lot of things in it including the 108 inside a sun like pattern. That same pattern was on the gift bag Mike gave little Walt that had a stuffed polar bear in it. He then asks his Mom "Does he like bears?"


Don't forget Jack's tattoo. I know he had it before Lost, but maybe they're writing it into the plot now.

I'm curious if the people behind Threshold, Invasion, and Surface are wondering why nobody is freeze-framing their episodes to find the little clues they may have left for people. It's as if they looked at replicating the success of LOST by focusing only on the aspect that they can tell people very little each episode and stretch a mini-series worth of plot over an entire season.

None of them have the quality writing or the characters (or the combo of both) that LOST has. The early Locke episode where we learn about his paralysis hooked us for 5 or 6 episodes, if not more. And as slow as the reveal has been, there have been a number of moments like that that keep us glued.

It reminds me of trying to come up with another Seinfeld - and focusing on "it's a show about nothing" - Gee, I can do that. :rolleyes:

I'm not being competitive about it, or protective of LOST - just a little disappointed that finally a genre I'm interested in gets some serious network attention and it has yielded so little of interest. Maybe instead of saying "we need a monster/alien/scifi type of show like LOST" (that doesn't need much plot :rolleyes:) ) - they should have said we need something different than the standard drama/sitcom - like LOST, 24 (even Prison Break). It's more about the creativity and the uniqueness than it is about the genre.

Give me a 20 episode season that unfolds in reverse like Momento (or that Seinfeld episode) - and I'll likely watch it, if done competently, regardless if it is scifi/nighttime soap/crime/medical, etc.

I think I figured something out.

Make Your Own Kind of Music

is an anagram for:

"I'm OK, I f**ked your snowman."


You seem to be especially adept at this skill.... remind me never to play Boggle with you. :D


Or let him use a anagram search engine (http://www.wordsmith.org/anagram/anagram.cgi?anagram=Make+Your+Own+Kind+of+Music&include=snowman&exclude=&d=&n=1&m=&source=adv&a=y&l=n&q=n&language=english) while playing. :p

I don't remember exactly...what was the bio-dome area looking at? You would assume a viewing area like that would be overlooking a large area. How big could it be if it was 50 ft underground? A cave system? Possible linking up with the cave that the survivors are staying in?

Speaking of that cave, remember the two dead bodies they found with the light and dark stones...we've haven't seen or heard anything about that yet.

Don't know if this was mentioned yet. After Locke input 4-8-15-16-23-42 into the computer and reset the clock to 108 (1hr 48 min), it seems that these numbers must be entered every 1hr 48 min. This would probably drive someone crazy after awhile, which lead me to believe that Leonard(?) who Hurley met in the psycho ward was probably in the bunker. Thats why he kept repeating the numbers over and over

Now of course I hope the undergound area is hugely more extensive than what we've seen so far, since underground cities and stuff like that really get me hot, BUT your point doesn't really explain why not use a regular CCTV system. A CCTV system can cover a much larger set of areas than a mirror system.

If the bunker was originally built around 1970 (the records and older computer tape systems might date around then... the Apple II is more like 1981 or thereabouts though), CCTV systems were the standard surveillance method. So why choose a weird mirror system instead?

Someone speculated earlier that perhaps the huge magnet that affected the key around Jack's neck would interfere with a CCTV system. I'm inclined to agree.

But that leads to another question re: the tape drives. Is the "geodesic dome" room surrounded by some massive shielding? Otherwise, wouldn't that magnet wipe all those tapes clean?

Don't know if this was mentioned yet. After Locke input 4-8-15-16-23-42 into the computer and reset the clock to 108 (1hr 48 min), it seems that these numbers must be entered every 1hr 48 min. This would probably drive someone crazy after awhile, which lead me to believe that Leonard(?) who Hurley met in the psycho ward was probably in the bunker. Thats why he kept repeating the numbers over and over

Only problem is it didn't start to immediately countdown. It might start up once every 3 days or a week for all we know.

Either way, the pressure of having to constantly be there to prevent "something bad" from happening would be tough to endure.

Perhaps the drug was just to keep him awake so he could enter the numbers every 1:48.

I wondered if the shark was mechanical, until the blood spattered when Michael shot it...which probably wouldn't happen in real life. Anyway, I wonder if the island is meant to be hidden. They've already mentioned it's too big to be missed, unless it were camouflaged. Perhaps the magnetic machinery is to keep it from showing up on a radar. And the shark is to keep people from coming in by sea?

[edit] Oh, and why would Desmond ask Locke if he knew how to use the computer, if all he wanted him to do was put in those numbers and hit Execute? It's not like he asked him to issue a command or program it...

Xesdeeni

Anyway, I wonder if the island is meant to be hidden. They've already mentioned it's too big to be missed, unless it were camouflaged.
Keep in mind who makes maps - governments. So its possible that some government decided to keep this island off of public maps for some reason.

I didn't notice this theory mentioned (forgive me if I overlooked it) but I'm guessing that the island, or at least the bunker, was submerged for some time as part of the "experiment" or whatever else is going on there. That would also explain how the Black Rock landed up so far on dry land. And the area in the bunker that had the "bio-dome" look could have been windows to see in to the water. The odd part of this theory is wondering how the vegetation grew back so quickly after being underwater. But if Locke's legs can work and Jack's fiancee got her leg function back, who knows what's possible here? Oh well. With the appearance of the shark on the "Dharma" payroll, I've started thinking more about the water surrounding the island.

Just something I've started wondering about.

Vegetation grows pretty damn fast in that part of the world.

The Black Rock could easily have washed up that far inland if there was a massive storm surge. We don't know what the elevation is where that boat is now, but it isn't uncommon for low lying parts of an island to be only a few feet above sea level. Give them an 8 foot storm surge and some massive waves and you could go inland quite a distance with some gale force winds and a big sail.

Still, I think that the ship being that far inland is supposed to be another mystery.

The logo does appear to be the same on all the labels but - the pattern is different for each of the eight patterns. I think it a stylized letter pattern spelling out some corporate name.

It isn't a stylized pattern. It is a binary pattern with breaks and no breaks. There are 8 possible combinations for the three bars being solid or broken. Each variation appears once in the ring around the inner logo.

Oh well. With the appearance of the shark on the "Dharma" payroll, I've started thinking more about the water surrounding the island.

Just something I've started wondering about.

The shark isn't on the DHARMA payroll. Notice the inside logo is different. Maybe a different division under the same corporation/agency.

It's the 40-50 feet of dirt that would be hard to explain. Or the need for a 40-50 foot tall escape hatch - unless it opened above the water.

The shark isn't on the DHARMA payroll. Notice the inside logo is different. Maybe a different division under the same corporation/agency.

The straight "line" in the middle could be DHARMA and they just left off the swan. They also may have an abbreviated logo for use on things that can fight back with more ferocity than a can of olive oil. ;)

Like using just the Pepsi "ball" instead of adding the Pepsi-Cola text. They probably could have just used a simple octagon. Not many sharks with tattoos out there that you need a tremendous amount of detail to distinguish yours.

It reminds me of trying to come up with another Seinfeld - and focusing on "it's a show about nothing" - Gee, I can do that. :rolleyes:

Curb Your Enthusiasm with Larry David on HBO.

I always thought they should have started Seinfeld after a 2 year hiatus by having a cop walk back to the cell where they were sitting, look at his watch, open the door and say: "OK, two years. You can go now."

Curb Your Enthusiasm with Larry David on HBO.

I always thought they should have started Seinfeld after a 2 year hiatus by having a cop walk back to the cell where they were sitting, look at his watch, open the door and say: "OK, two years. You can go now."

that's good!

Keep in mind who makes maps - governments. So its possible that some government decided to keep this island off of public maps for some reason.

Governments don't make maps - corporations like Rand McNally, the Thomas Guide and National Geographic do.

With satellite technology, you don't have "uncharted islands" anymore. Back in the 40's and 50's though, it was still quite conceivable that a large island that was very remote could be unknown.

For obvious reasons, Curb is able to replicate the real genius behind Seinfeld.

Just like someone could replicate the genius behind LOST - but it's not about the island or the "monster".

I didn't notice this theory mentioned (forgive me if I overlooked it) but I'm guessing that the island, or at least the bunker, was submerged for some time as part of the "experiment" or whatever else is going on there. That would also explain how the Black Rock landed up so far on dry land. And the area in the bunker that had the "bio-dome" look could have been windows to see in to the water. The odd part of this theory is wondering how the vegetation grew back so quickly after being underwater. But if Locke's legs can work and Jack's fiancee got her leg function back, who knows what's possible here? Oh well. With the appearance of the shark on the "Dharma" payroll, I've started thinking more about the water surrounding the island.

Just something I've started wondering about.

Remember the episode in the first season when they suddenly had to move their camp away from the beach because of the tide rushing in more quickly than normal?

I know it was written into the plot because the tide *Really* was rushing in during filming in Hawaii, but it at least jives with your theory.

As long as the vegetation is only under watter for a few days/weeks at a time (long enough for a ship to wreck on it), it'll be just fine - especially if it can tolerate the salt water (which I'd assume island plants would). I bet the Black Rock was sailing towards the mountains (which appeared to be the island(s)) and ran aground on the submerged parts of the island - it could have been dark and trees poking out of the water not readily visible, or the crew wasn't paying enough attention, or was already deranged by the virus (that they may be the source of..)

The whole island being able to go underwater is an interesting idea, but as I've brought up previously the Black Rock is a very old boat design with slaves aboard - this implies it was sailing probably in the 18th century (I guess). If the island bunker already existed way back then, who the heck built it? Aliens?

The bunker looks to be 1950s, 1960s technology, with upgrades from the 1970's (9-track tape drives, exercise bike), 1980's (Apple II--probably being used only as a dumb terminal to a mainframe), and 1990's-2000's (Whirlpool washer/dryer). Looking at the consumables, it's obvious resupply occurs on an annual basis or so...

The Black Rock probably dates from the late 1800's, since Dynamite wasn't invented until 1866. (Unless the Dynamite actually belonged to Rouseau's group, and she just stashed it there. The dynamite crate was stenciled "EXPLOSIVES"; I don't know when the current Roman-font stencil set appeared, but I'd bet if the crate dated to the late 1860's, it'd be hand-lettered, not stenciled.)

I think the bunker is a relatively modern installation on an island that's been mysterious for a very long time.

~Dan

Someone speculated earlier that perhaps the huge magnet that affected the key around Jack's neck would interfere with a CCTV system. I'm inclined to agree.
Ah, the key...

Anybody out there have a Zero Halliburton alumimum case? Is the key steel, or brass?

Cheap, small locks have stamped steel keys, but I'd bet a $300 secure gun case would have better locks that take cut, brass keys. And brass is non-magnetic.


But that leads to another question re: the tape drives. Is the "geodesic dome" room surrounded by some massive shielding? Otherwise, wouldn't that magnet wipe all those tapes clean?
Could be some form of Faraday Cage. If so, the floor and the openings would also have to be shielded...

~Dan

Speaking of that cave, remember the two dead bodies they found with the light and dark stones...we've haven't seen or heard anything about that yet.

I forgot about them...survivors from the Black Rock shipwreck?

~Dan

But there is no technology to explain how the airliner first got lost a 1000 miles from its course, got torn up in the air and have most or a lot of its passengers survive.

Or that drug runner plane from Africa with limited range ending up in the South Pacific somewhere.

Keep in mind who makes maps - governments. So its possible that some government decided to keep this island off of public maps for some reason.

Except that in this day and age, governments aren't the only ones with aerial photography and high-resolution satellites. Suppressing the content of maps isn't sufficient today; if you want to hide an island, you have to make the island, itself, look like it's not there...

~Dan

Give me a 20 episode season that unfolds in reverse like Momento
I think that would be incredible if done well. How about starting the first episode with an apparently guilty guy about to be executed with subsequent episodes showing the investigation and trial in reverse through flashbacks with each episode revealing information and mistakes that make us question his guilt. The final episode could break that format, go back into real time and pick up immediately after the first scene in the first episode (the last scene in the plotline at that point in the season) so the season would have a real conclusion and we'd know whether we were right.

Plus they could jack up the DVD sales by including an option to play the whole thing forwards like they did with Momento.

Ah, the key...

And brass is non-magnetic.

Could be some form of Faraday Cage. If so, the floor and the openings would also have to be shielded...

~Dan

What about a gravity-generating machine drawing the key in instead of magnetism? I would have expected Jack to react differently in that scene if that was the case though.

Maybe Jack is actually a robot and it was pushing him away, not pulling the key.

Nope. Robots don't sprain their ankles while doing a tour de stad.

Give me a 20 episode season that unfolds in reverse like Momento (or that Seinfeld episode)

Memento actually starts in the middle and works its way outward toward the beginning and end. It took me a few times (and the special edition dvd) to figure it out.

The Seinfeld episode was awesome.

Don't know if this was mentioned yet. After Locke input 4-8-15-16-23-42 into the computer and reset the clock to 108 (1hr 48 min), IIRC it was 10800, the previous display was 00237->00236. 10800 seconds is 180 minutes = 3 hours. Didn't notice if it started "ticking" right away.

larry

IIRC it was 10800, the previous display was 00237->00236. 10800 seconds is 180 minutes = 3 hours. Didn't notice if it started "ticking" right away.

larryDoes this mean there is a countdown going on... 00237-->00236 * 3 hours = 29.5 days until?

I think that the key looked brass, but it is likely that they were just trying to show magnetic forces at work without realizing that the key was brass.

None of my keys are ferrous and so they don't respond to a magnet, but the ring they are on does.

I think this was just a mistake on the producer's part. I don't know of any steel keys, since they would rust and rust scraping off into a lock isn't good.

Does this mean there is a countdown going on... 00237-->00236 * 3 hours = 29.5 days until?

No, but nice work on keeping your post count in this thread ahead of mine. ;)

OK, I've got a 1,000,000 more like that. :D

I'm curious if the people behind Threshold, Invasion, and Surface are wondering why nobody is freeze-framing their episodes to find the little clues they may have left for people. It's as if they looked at replicating the success of LOST by focusing only on the aspect that they can tell people very little each episode and stretch a mini-series worth of plot over an entire season.
I watch those shows, but I spend enough time trying to play catchup with this thread I don't want to read those threads, because I know I'll get stuck in it.

IIRC it was 10800, the previous display was 00237->00236. 10800 seconds is 180 minutes = 3 hours. Didn't notice if it started "ticking" right away.

larry

The 108 was black with white letters, and the 00 was white with black letters (or vice versa). This implies that the 108 was minutes (or hours) and the 00 was seconds (or minutes).

They didn't show it tick after Locke reset it, and I would say that they showed it for longer than one second.

However, when they were showing the 002:37, then the last two numbers were definately seconds counting down. Based on that we would assume 108 minutes and 00 seconds when the timer is reset. However, we don't know when the timer starts. As was pointed out earlier, the digits could mean different things as it counts down.

The 108 could originially mean hours, but once it gets down to 1 hour to go, it could switch to minutes.

Do we know how long passed from the time Desmond entered the numbers until Locke did? We were led to believe that he woke up and entered the numbers right away. The dynamite explosion went off sometime during his morning routine (I'll guess 1 hour after he entered the numbers). Then how long after the explosion did Locke enter the numbers? 3 or 4 hours? It would seem that if Locke walked all the way back to the beach, Jack gave his speech, then they headed to the caves, and then Locke went back to the hatch, alot more than 108 minutes would have went by.

I guess Desmond could have entered the numbers in between there.

Man, I can't believe that I just put that much thought into this post! :eek:

I think we will find out the timer's secret soon enough. Less than 108 days from now...

I think that the key looked brass, but it is likely that they were just trying to show magnetic forces at work without realizing that the key was brass.

None of my keys are ferrous and so they don't respond to a magnet, but the ring they are on does.

I think this was just a mistake on the producer's part. I don't know of any steel keys, since they would rust and rust scraping off into a lock isn't good.

I agree with you...they were showing us some mysterious force field...

~Dan

The 108 could originially mean hours, but once it gets down to 1 hour to go, it could switch to minutes.

Do we know how long passed from the time Desmond entered the numbers until Locke did? We were led to believe that he woke up and entered the numbers right away. The dynamite explosion went off sometime during his morning routine (I'll guess 1 hour after he entered the numbers). Then how long after the explosion did Locke enter the numbers? 3 or 4 hours? It would seem that if Locke walked all the way back to the beach, Jack gave his speech, then they headed to the caves, and then Locke went back to the hatch, alot more than 108 minutes would have went by.



If we assume that the events from the time the numbers were entered at the beginning to 2nd time, are one after another, then I don't think the 108 are hours (that will be 4 1/2 days). They will need to be minutes.

No way I could handle doing it every 108 minutes - you'd never get any decent sleep - and there's no chance that that little "beeping" would wake me.

Man, I can't believe that I just put that much thought into this post! :eek:You better wrap your head with "duct tape" because I think it's about to "explode!" :D

But there is no technology to explain how the airliner first got lost a 1000 miles from its course, got torn up in the air and have most or a lot of its passengers survive.

Or that drug runner plane from Africa with limited range ending up in the South Pacific somewhere.

:cool: Now if there was a source of magnetic interference that was strong enough, it could certainly "pull" a compass to a false reading.

Wait there is a source of magnetic interference. :eek: Depending upon the number of degrees off the True Heading and the number of miles flown, which are a function of time and speed. If you remember KAL Flight 007 that was shot down by the Russians over Kamchatka in the late 70's early 80's. They were 750 miles to the right of course due to few degrees of navigational error.

One degree of compass or map error equals nearly 100 feet of ground error per mile.
SO 1000 miles would be 18.94 miles off.
20 degrees would be 378.8 miles off in 1000 miles of travel or 757.60 miles after 2000 miles of travel. And so forth.

Now, this is ground speed, and let’s say the aircraft is traveling at 650 MPH GS. To fly 2-3000 miles it would take 3- a little over 4.6 hours.

Add to this the fact that the closer you get to the magnetic source, the greater the deviation would become and the degrees off the intended track would increase. So I think the plane started off just a little bit off course and that may have been a malfunction like KAL 007, then as it got closer it got worse quick. So imagine a curved actual path away from the intended path.

Now if you've ever spent much time flying over vast expanses of ocean, there aren't any ground clues, so you rely on instruments for navigation. If they are jammed, malfunctioning or interfered with, it will be subtle enough not to notice.

Same is true for ships and light aircraft, maybe even more so.

I always thought they should have started Seinfeld after a 2 year hiatus by having a cop walk back to the cell where they were sitting, look at his watch, open the door and say: "OK, two years. You can go now."
I thought their sentence was for 1 year.

No way I could handle doing it every 108 minutes - you'd never get any decent sleep - and there's no chance that that little "beeping" would wake me.

Too true...I'd be hitting my imaginary 'snooze' button and the Earth would be doomed :-)

Now Every 108 hours....that would be doable. But we know it isn't likely to be that since Desmond had to enter them twice in one day (if what he entered at the start of the day were indeed the numbers).

Every 10 hours, 8 minutes? :-)

There's no way we can be certain the 108|00 on the "timer" was actually counting down time. You have to assume a lot to determine that the last two digits are seconds just from seeing it go from 002|37 to 002|36 in approximately one second of camera time. Even if the last two digits did reduce by 1 every second, there's no way to tell if they roll over at 59 or at 99 (or some other interval).

Anybody care to guess why Desmond expected a "him" but acted surprised to learn that there was still a world "up there"?

I wonder if he thought there was a WWIII nuclear war that destroyed all the major cities like Sydney and LA and left so much radiation behind that anybody above ground would get "sick". Perhaps he was told there were other armageddon-safe bunkers out there and a fellow Dharma evacuee (oops, I almost said "refugee") was going to come when it was safe.

Tim

As previously mentioned, if it is strictly a Base 10 timer (despite the different colored wheels), it could be 10800 seconds. That would be exactly 3 hours. Still tough though.

If only we could have seen the clock move in the couple seconds it was visible after reset - we'd know for sure.

I think we will find out about that bunker some more in the next episode. Odd that the answers will come in episode 3 instead of episode 4.

[QUOTE=mr2828]Hmm.. looks too advanced to be self-rigged. Where would he get those pre-made mirrors and other parts?

Also, the mirrors in the system seem to be electrically controlled for positioning. So the idea that they are using a mirror/telescope system for surveillance instead of traditional CCTV doesn't make a lot of sense in terms of being unpowered. If the power goes out the mirrors will not be moveable.


[QUOTE]

Try this, In Ep 1, we see Desmond move the mirrors, we see him do it again last night. My take is this bunker has more than 2 main corridors, and the mirrors line up lilke a periscope without a shell to look where he wants to look.
Why? because there are multiple entrances, that' why. 100% Speculation


Ok I watched again in slo-mo last night. Desmond repositions the mirrors with a switch. I could count 8 switches on the switch bar. (I couldn't see the actual top of the bar so there may be more.) That means there could be 8 different mirror settings. Does that mean 8 main corridors or combinations of corridors? How many ingress and egress routes are there? At least 2, and possibly more.

Way not use CCTV? Maybe they didn't have it to install? The bunker was built long before CCTV and Desmod for some other purpose during WWII or something? Whoever put Desmond there didn't want him to have it? Desmond moved into the bunker to get away from something and brought his household goods in and salvaged stuff from elsewhere and made do with what he had. He sure had the time. And the mirrors are not subject to magnetic interference or other interference that the CCTV's possibly would have.

Maybe this place is a TEST Site for some pretty nasty stuff to drop on the Japanese in WWII or Vietnam in the 60's & 70's or some chemical test facility operating outside the jurisdiction of the EPA for that matter. I think something was done on this island by intelligent beings (people) that either went bad or lost it's usefulness and then created this anomaly that has "brought" everyone together at different times.

As previously mentioned, if it is strictly a Base 10 timer (despite the different colored wheels), it could be 10800 seconds. That would be exactly 3 hours. Still tough though.

If only we could have seen the clock move in the couple seconds it was visible after reset - we'd know for sure.It's possible the granularity is 108 minutes. Enough time to blow the hatch, go back to camp, listen to Jack's speech and then return to the hatch.

It's the pressure of responding to that 108-minute timer that's driving Desmond crazy.

FWIW, David Fury said they're making it up as they go along, that they really have no detailed master plan.

A statement taken issue with rather strongly by writer/producer Javier Grillo-Marxurach here (http://www.livejournal.com/users/chaodai/32807.html).