I thought Chewie was meant for Eko ?? Didn't he have a nickname for AL, given the pounding he took from her??

Rambina.

Someone on another Lost site posted a screen cap that's had the levels adjusted in Photoshop to bring out the shadow detail and lighten the image. This pretty much puts to rest the theories about the additional "others" being mirrors or some sort of gas contraption:

http://lost.cubit.net/pics/ringOfFire.jpg

I should point out that I was speaking from the perspective of if I were standing there, not knowing what we, the audience, knows:

I'd want more proof than that. Just because there were torches, doesn't mean there were people holding them.

We have the benefit of seeing everything (especially with DVRs and Photoshop), not just what the characters share with one another. If I were standing there and a bunch of torches lit up, then went out without any sign of people, I'd want some proof of this "Others" army. Otherwise, it's just some hillbilly spewing dung in my face with a single sniper and an F/X guy to back him up.

My guess on the people with the torches: when they shot the scene they thought the torches would be bright enough so you could see there were people holding them. Then instead of fixing it, they decided it looked creepier if you couldn't see the people very well.

You can also see there are people by stepping through the scene and watching their arms move. It's confusing because the camera is slowly moving so it's hard to tell if anything is really moving.

Middle of the second page? Everyone must be watching the divisional championships!

Photoshop can adjust the relative levels of black, white, and gray....and can lighten the dark areas to show you what is there. I'm sure if the producers wanted them to be "faked" (ie, done with mirrors or some other method) they wouldn't have had extras holding the torches. They're smart enough to know that many people will scrutinize the scene.


exactly- people ar eframe by frame advacning to see 2 frames of a tattto on a sharks ass. THey know what they are doing.

I don't know if this has been mentioned before but when they meet the Others, "Zeke" mentioned taking your shoes off and walking around in someones house. If you remember when Locke first went down the hatch he took his shoes off when he got to the bottom.

How did "Zeke" know about this? Do the Others have cameras in the hatch?

I don't know if this has been mentioned before but when they meet the Others, "Zeke" mentioned taking your shoes off and walking around in someones house. If you remember when Locke first went down the hatch he took his shoes off when he got to the bottom.

How did "Zeke" know about this? Do the Others have cameras in the hatch?

Damn ... nice memory. I remembered that too but it didn't come to mind when 'Zeke' mentioned it. I'm guessing they do have cameras, because the messages Mike has been seeing on the computer have only been there when nobody else is around. You never know but I'd say they know everything that's going on down in the hatch. Zeke never looked at Locke when he said "do you take your shoes off" because he knows he does no doubt. He was only looking at Jack and had an angry tone to his voice.
Nicely spotted though.

So smart that they had xrays dated 2005 in the opening scene flashback?

I thought they were stage hands as well, holding those torches. Certainly not intended to be seen by the masses who watch the show without HD and the electronics to flesh that out.


In Season One Lost Bonus Disc, JJ Abrams made reference to viewers with DVR's when they were shooting the polar bear scene. The initial shot was performed using a puppet polar bear shot through the air in an attack scene. He said they had to do it another way, as people who can view frame by frame would think it laughable. So we finally have producers and directors who are impacted by advanced viewer technology that they had to reshoot the scene and utilize alternative means.

In Season One Lost Bonus Disc, JJ Abrams made reference to viewers with DVR's when they were shooting the polar bear scene. The initial shot was performed using a puppet polar bear shot through the air in an attack scene. He said they had to do it another way, as people who can view frame by frame would think it laughable. So we finally have producers and directors who are impacted by advanced viewer technology that they had to reshoot the scene and utilize alternative means.

You're saying that the DVD set for this season will have an altered date on those xrays? I just can't understand why one very obvious flaw was not caught in post production when such care is supposed to be a hallmark of the series.

Just a bit OT here, but

Can anyone confirm that the woman playing Jacks wife in last weeks episode was indeed the actress who played his wife in Season 1? I recognize the girl in the most recent episode as the one on Boston Legal (yes, we watch it sometims :--) But, I don't think she is all that.

I recall Jacks wife in Season 1 being a bit more ALL that! Differant girl

Same girl - Julie Bowen.

You're saying that the DVD set for this season will have an altered date on those xrays? I just can't understand why one very obvious flaw was not caught in post production when such care is supposed to be a hallmark of the series.

No they altered it before it aired, they had this puppet thing where they launched the bear at the camera. Frame by frame users would have seen how dumb it looked, so they did the bear scene with CGI and a dude wearing the costumes legs instead.

As for the dates it's probably not a mistake. If the hospital in the show is fictional then so is it's name right? Well if this hospital really doesn't exist then they had to have those made up and a date is something they must have thought about. I just reckon it's a clue as to when they crashed, then again they probably filmed that episode around that time so who knows. If it's a mistake then it's a pretty stupid one to make. I didn't even notice until somebody pointed it out in this thread.

continuity is a touch job, there are continuity people on the sets always, but for example I catch things on most shows, 3-5 or more per show, evening on WestWing, Desperate, BL, etc.

Thanks everybody for the iTunes suggestion. $1.99 later I got the whole episode.

Several posters have made a connection between the Hanso film and Zeke's speech to Jack/Sawyer/Locke. I missed that ... can somebody fill me in?

Thanks everybody for the iTunes suggestion. $1.99 later I got the whole episode.

Several posters have made a connection between the Hanso film and Zeke's speech to Jack/Sawyer/Locke. I missed that ... can somebody fill me in?

Right here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6951521&highlight=curiosity#post6951521

See how the torches were lit in unision at Nanotubes (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8976160/)

The researchers also used an electric current to make a nanotube sheet light up almost instantly, via incandescent heating (the same process that causes the filament in a light bulb to glow), offering possibilities for sensor light sources or headlights that don’t use filament-based light bulbs.

They may also explain the "smoke"! :)

That's throwing me too. Are they trying to continually bring the show 'current'? Since they've been on the island 50 days and the show was broadcast on 18 January, are we supposed to believe they crashed around the end of Nov. '05, less than a month after the x-rays?

No. In the first season, someone makes a reference to the Red Sox never having won the World Series. So the crash is before that happens... I believe the date is supposed to be September 22, 2004, going from the Oceanic Air site.

For the moment, I'm writing the x-rays off as a simple error. ::handwave:: They happen, even when there's extraordinary care for detail. Makes more sense to me than trying to build entire theories around it.

No. In the first season, someone makes a reference to the Red Sox never having won the World Series. So the crash is before that happens... I believe the date is supposed to be September 22, 2004, going from the Oceanic Air site.

For the moment, I'm writing the x-rays off as a simple error. ::handwave:: They happen, even when there's extraordinary care for detail. Makes more sense to me than trying to build entire theories around it.

Perhaps in their space time continuum the Sox still haven't won a world series.

... I catch things on most shows, 3-5 or more per show, evening on WestWing, Desperate, BL, etc.

If you're not doing that for income already, you should think about changing jobs. ;)

He is right, they deff made a point about the ReD SOX reffrence, because Jacks father said it in the bar in Australia, so that means he was in australia before the sox won, which was oct 04. You wouldmt make that statement after the fact, its like saying 1940 to the NEW YORK RANGERS when it took them 54 years to win another cup. THe refrence was brought up again by Sawyer when Jack said the same statement his dad said, and Sawyer remembered it and told him he met his dad in the bar before he died. The only other explanation was if they were speaking as if it didnt happen, or that since nobody ever thought it would happen, it makes for a great statement. I didnt see the date on the MRI or Cat Scan, it wasnt a X-Ray by teh way, does anyone have a JPEG of the date upclose, i cant get my UTV to stop clearly enough to see it. I did however see someof the people holding the torches when ZEKE says Light them up. Still not sure if they were just extras or if they were there for us to see.
JPEGS plEase.
wg

It turns out the 2005 date was just a mistake.
http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=33581

Actually, it was a mistake by the medical technican who put the wrong year onto the film, placing a "5" instead of a "3" in 2003. In another hospital flashback, Jack will make a comment complaining about the tech when she does it again to another set of films. In the last episode of this season, we'll find out that technican was on the flight too. She will mistakenly enter in the numbers as "4 8 15 16 25 42" and set off chain of events leading to the season cliffhanger.

Note to ABC: I will want a No-Prize after this happens.

Thankkew, thankkew vurry much. I think I was the first to propose this theory waaaay back about a zillion pages ago. Call it a lucky guess, but I had read Prey.:)

The nanobot theory is the only one I could think of that makes any sense. The whole mind-reading thing, however it may be related to the Darma remote-viewing experiments or whatever, is clearly parapsychological, which is treading dangerously close to the supernatural since we currently have no scientific explanation for such phenomena and legitimate observations are....questionable.

I finally worked my way through Prey.

Of all the theories I have heard here about the "island monster/pissed of giraffe/whatever", I agree that the nanobot theory makes the most sense. Good job. If the producers are indeed using that book as source material, that could possibly explain how Walt could appear. Maybe he is just a swarm that is mimicking him. Of course, his appearances seem to be trying to warn others of danger. Possible "good" swarms and "evil" swarms. That may be stretching it.

I finally worked my way through Prey.

Of all the theories I have heard here about the "island monster/pissed of giraffe/whatever", I agree that the nanobot theory makes the most sense. Good job. If the producers are indeed using that book as source material, that could possibly explain how Walt could appear. Maybe he is just a swarm that is mimicking him. Of course, his appearances seem to be trying to warn others of danger. Possible "good" swarms and "evil" swarms. That may be stretching it.

Maybe not "good" swarm and "evil" swarm, maybe swarm is controllable by someone like Walt with his abilities. He made the swarm look like him so the folks would recognize and (hopefully) listen to his warning.

It turns out the 2005 date was just a mistake.
http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=33581

See? ::handwave::

:)

Something's been bugging me about how Jack and company responded after seeing the jungle light up with torches at Zeke's command while they were still armed. As soon as they saw that he was a/the leader, they could've gotten the drop on him. I'm sure he would've been a valuable enough hostage to get Kate back and keep their weapons. But I guess that's another way that LOST is different than most other shows.

Tim

Maybe not "good" swarm and "evil" swarm, maybe swarm is controllable by someone like Walt with his abilities. He made the swarm look like him so the folks would recognize and (hopefully) listen to his warning.

Ooooo, that's pretty good. :cool:

Something's been bugging me about how Jack and company responded after seeing the jungle light up with torches at Zeke's command while they were still armed. As soon as they saw that he was a/the leader, they could've gotten the drop on him. I'm sure he would've been a valuable enough hostage to get Kate back and keep their weapons. But I guess that's another way that LOST is different than most other shows.

Tim

I'm guessing they were flat petrified when those torches came on, intimidated silly, and they were already off-balance because Zeke just showed up out of nowhere. Also, they had no way to know if the torch people were armed; could have been suicide to make a play for Zeke in that case.

There are many sci fi and fantasy stories where ability to fulfill wishes or to do magic depends upon either wandering thru alternate realities or mentally pulling things from other worlds. There are also Stephen King-like stories where some places the barriers between worlds are thinner.

It is possible to imagine a sequence of alternate worlds with each assigned a serial number of some sort by concerned aware citizens. Repeating or publishing that number (4 8 15 ..) could help ground you in your proper world somehow. Remote viewing at certain locations might allow communication between worlds.

The show takes place with in a world with the final number (answer) 42, but that may be subject to change at any moment. ;)

- Tom

wow this episode is artsy!

weird episode

Guess we have to wait another week for a good episode.

honestly? that was completely worthless...zero development of previous interaction with the Others...useless development of the other characters...what did we learn that wd didn't already know? and now we have to wait 2 weeks for an episode where they tease us with glimpses of the Others?

I think they either need to somehow explain that the show is going to be character driven, and not driven by the mysterys on the island and tone down the pace in all the episodes or keep up the pace with dynamic writing which includes the mystery into every episode which continues to give us pieces of the puzzle. But doing one exciting episode, then one boring useless episode jsut kills momentum in the series.

We learned what happened to Liam between his drug-addict days and when he got clean. I think we could all assume why he did it from information in the first season. It really didn't need to be explained any further. Charlie's story has to be one of the boringest and superficial.

Guess we have to wait another week for a good episode.

that would be two weeks....Lost returns 2/8

I consider this weeks ep as mostly filler, or pacing material. There were a few twists, with Charlie and the drugs, but no new material wrt the others, etc. And no real character developement beyond what we already knew (though these Charlie scenes were new, they didn't really add anything to what we already knew about him). I'm not one to whine about getting no answers, but even I have to admit this weeks ep was more of a placeholder than anything.

I'm sure I missed some setup info of some kind, but that's my first reaction. Looks like next ep may heat up again.

The shrink-lady mentions to Hurley how new (looking) the washing machine is in the laundry room. But I wonder if her line was just a cover for a production goof, all the other appliances being older in appearance.

Locke paused before placing the water bottle into his bag. Not sure what he eyed inside it, but I thought I briefly saw an image on the bottle.

My only question was why Locke saved the drugs, gotta be something behind that

lax01 ... yah, I have the same question!

Charlie's story has to be one of the boringest and superficial.

No, that would be Michael's.

BTW: What's with all the spoiler tags - the show has already aired. Those on the left coast and others with DVRs know not to read the stuff in here until the see the episode.

No, that would be Michael's.

that would be a close second or a tie ;)

but yeah, theres lots of other people on the island that they haven't even explored...most of the talies (with the exception of Anna) haven't been explored...why waste an hour of our time with backstory we already knew?

Locke paused before placing the water bottle into his bag. Not sure what he eyed inside it, but I thought I briefly saw an image on the bottle.

He saw the drug figurines and was thinking whether or not to tell Claire.

My only question was what was the deal with the airplane apparently crashing behind Claire and Charlies mom in that vision. I figured that was the plane that had the drugs on it...

He saw the drug figurines and was thinking whether or not to tell Claire.
That was my impression too. You could hear them rattling as he opened and handled the bag.

The shrink-lady mentions to Hurley how new (looking) the washing machine is in the laundry room. But I wonder if her line was just a cover for a production goof, all the other appliances being older in appearance.
I think the washing machine comment was put in there by the writers to screw with all of the people who spent hours speculating on whether the new washing machine was a continuity error or something more meaningful. Either way, this is one of those things that makes me really like this show. If the relative newness of the washing machine is actually significant, it will blow my mind -- and it shows how detail-oriented the writers are. If the comment was just thrown in there by the writers to poke fun at their own mistake, then kudos to the writers for having a sense of humor and for listening to the obsessive viewers that noticed the error.

That was my impression too. You could hear them rattling as he opened and handled the bag.OK. To me, he looked as though he saw a snake or something.

I enjoyed tonight's episode. Lost can't move every episode as fast as last week, or they would be off the island by the end of this season.

As for the backstory, I didn't know that Liam missed the birth of his daughter because he was getting a fix, or that he sold Charlie's prized piano to get his life together again while leaving his brother Charlie out in the cold. Liam has crapped on Charlie so many times ... here Charlie keeps coming back to Liam and defends him because he is family, yet Liam keeps crapping on him. Interesting -- family ties and what one will do for them. Charlie is becoming quite the outsider of the group.

Next week's epi looks good -- the confrontation between Jack's and Locke's leadership.

Also, I noticed Jack is still wearing the key to that gun case. So I assume those 9mm's are still hidden out in the jungle?

My only question was what was the deal with the airplane apparently crashing behind Claire and Charlies mom in that vision. I figured that was the plane that had the drugs on it...

yeah I need to rewatch that part...I did see a brief glimpse of a plane which then turned into the dove....

some people think Ecko was planning on building a church (why he was marking trees)...I dunno...any thoughts?

Slow down sista! Brooklyn in da house!

I think Ana Lucia wants a three way with Kate and Jack.

Jack was like, come again?

Jack bangs AL to get Kate jealous?

Kate bangs Sawyer to get Jack jealous?

According to both TitanTV and TV Guide online, next week episode of Lost is going to be a repeat. :(

According to both TitanTV and TV Guide online, next weeks episode of Lost is going to be a repeat. :(

Slow show today. Yawning a few times. After watching 24 for a few episodes, this week's LOST seemed lame and boring. I've been a fan of LOST, but this one gave me the first thoughts of doubt. And to top this week's episode off, next week is a repeat. There were times today when I just shook my head and said, "that is so stupid," (mainly during Charlie dreams). The diaper thing was just weird. The painting mother/Claire/Hurley/dove scene was idiotic. I vote this as the worst episode of either season thus far. I'll be back for the next new epiosde, but if it's anything CLOSE to this dud then I think "I'll" be LOST from this series.

My only question was why Locke saved the drugs, gotta be something behind that


Heroin is an opiate and can be used in a pinch as a pain reliever in extreme circumstances. My only thought as to why he would do that. But I would imagine he would give it to Jack and let him decide, not lock them up in a vault and change the combo.

The shrink-lady mentions to Hurley how new (looking) the washing machine is in the laundry room. But I wonder if her line was just a cover for a production goof, all the other appliances being older in appearance.

Locke paused before placing the water bottle into his bag. Not sure what he eyed inside it, but I thought I briefly saw an image on the bottle.

It's where he had the statues....I figured he was considering telling claire about them but changed his mind.

Charlie is becoming quite the outsider of the group.

Next week's epi looks good -- the confrontation between Jack's and Locke's leadership.



The same thing occurred to me as well. I think Locke punching out Charlie will end up to be a big mistake. Don't push someone on the edge too far, he may not come back. We'll see.

yeah I need to rewatch that part...I did see a brief glimpse of a plane which then turned into the dove....

some people think Ecko was planning on building a church (why he was marking trees)...I dunno...any thoughts?

I thought he was looking for something to make a shelter or a cross perhaps. Or maybe some more of his ass-kicking sticks.

I think the washing machine comment was put in there by the writers to screw with all of the people who spent hours speculating on whether the new washing machine was a continuity error or something more meaningful. Either way, this is one of those things that makes me really like this show. If the relative newness of the washing machine is actually significant, it will blow my mind -- and it shows how detail-oriented the writers are. If the comment was just thrown in there by the writers to poke fun at their own mistake, then kudos to the writers for having a sense of humor and for listening to the obsessive viewers that noticed the error.

I agree, it totally had to be put there for that reason. And I'm wondering if it was just an accident because Hurley replies "I just know they wash clothes" and she says something like, "Finally, someone who just takes things simple." This leads me to believe it was the writers just saying 'come on its just a washer and dryer!...for cryin out loud!'

Also, Hurley obviously thinks he knows her from somewhere and it has been thrown out before that it could be from when he was "commited." But I think she would remember someone like Hurley, at least I know I would.

I just finished Veronica Mars tonight where at the end she stuck a fortune cookie on a mirror. It had the Lost numbers on it. Viral marketing or just others getting into the act?

- Tom

I agree, it totally had to be put there for that reason. And I'm wondering if it was just an accident because Hurley replies "I just know they wash clothes" and she says something like, "Finally, someone who just takes things simple." This leads me to believe it was the writers just saying 'come on its just a washer and dryer!...for cryin out loud!'

I got the sense that this, in combination with Hurley's comment (in "Everyone Hates Hugo") about the hatch having only enough food for one guy for six more weeks, is indicative that the hatch gets resupplied regularly...despite Desmond's claim of being isolated...


Also, Hurley obviously thinks he knows her from somewhere and it has been thrown out before that it could be from when he was "commited." But I think she would remember someone like Hurley, at least I know I would.

Um, dude in psych ward, and clinical psychologist...of course he knows her! :)

~Dan

Why did Locke carefully stand the statues up? If he's storing them for some future purpose ... well, I would have laid them down.

"Finally, someone who just takes things simple." This leads me to believe it was the writers just saying 'come on its just a washer and dryer!...for cryin out loud!'



I can understand why people would think that...but if you go to all the trouble to make a setting look 'retro' and dated, why screw up on something as simple as a washer/dryer? Either it was intentional or a screw up, but you have to think they'd know that WE'D notice lol.

You hittin that ???

:D :D :D

I thought it was a good episode because:

Development of confrontation between Mr. Eko and Locke...Eko leading Charlie to Baptism, Locke looked peeved when he heard Charlie doing that.

Locke saving the statues...clearly understanding that he would need them later on, whether it was for Charlie or for other purposes.

Hurley recognizing Libby...you know she's going to be in a Hurley flashback.

During Charlie's dream, there was clearly a white dove and then a black dove (shadow) that separated itself. On the reverse angle flying over Charlie's head, you only see the white dove. Black dove (shadow) was too obvious to me to be just a shadow.

Claire still has some semblance of trust for Charlie or she would not have followed up with Eko and followed through with the Baptism. Locke tried to downplay it, but the whole heaven thing sort of stuck with Claire

Claire may have seen the statues in Locke's bag through the reflection from the water bottle.

Libby wants some action.

Kate's a little jealous.

Sawyer is getting better all of the time...Jethro? Zeke? (although I would have gone the Grizzly Adams route) Mr. Clean? and he had another great one for Hurley last week that I can't remember right now. He has taken over the comic relief from Hurley for the last few episodes...

Good night!

My personal favorite name from SAWYER was him callin Hurley JABA, after he asked Libby if she said anything, or he knew anything about her. He actually called Hurley a bunch of names, pretty funny.
wg

What a letdown!

More backstory of charlie and his brother having problems because of drugs.

More of Charlie being jealous of Locke and Claire.

THe destruction of a character that the show has painstakingly built up to be likeable, after this it will be hard to suspend disbelief that anyone would find Charlie likeable again.

A bunch of weird religious nonsense unrelated to the plot, I don't mind a little religion in the show, especially since it deals with the supernatural.. but this was a bit overblown to the point of being obnoxious.

Ver little, if any hints or subplots towards the island's mysteries.

It sucked. I was looking forward to it all evening too.

Terrible episode, and yes, by far the worst they've had.

i kept waiting for something to happen, but nothing. And why are we having to wait weeks for the next episode? What's the deal?

This is a bit off topic, but I've been watching Invasion as well, and tonight's episode was just killer! The segment before the Invasion logo came on was better than the hour of Lost tonight! LOL!

i kept waiting for something to happen, but nothing. And why are we having to wait weeks for the next episode? What's the deal?!

If they're gonna make us wait at least put a good episode on with a cliffhanger ending. Maybe they need the extra time to figure out what t do with the plot, cause there was none tonight.

Lost was in Granny low this week, while Invasion is reaching for a higher speed after shifting into top gear 2-3 weeks ago.

I enjoyed tonight's show. I have enjoyed every episode of Lost though, so maybe it is me. If people would realize they are watching, basically a soap opera, with some new trick ponies thrown in, they could just enjoy the interaction between characters. And the pretty girls.
I think Locke is going to do more harm to Charlie, Jack will get between them, Eko will get between Locke and Jack, and Sawyer will just shake his head while Kate strokes his... shoulders.
They need to kill off somebody again, I think Charlie is going crazy enough to be the one.

Somewhere around the half-hour mark last night, I blurted out to nobody in particular, "This is so effing boring!" My wife came to the stairs and asked if everything was OK, because I sounded like I was in pain. I was. What a snoozer. I wish they'd just hitch Charlie up, have him OD and float his annoying body into the ocean. Charlie stories are the equivalent of Carla-centric episodes on Cheers - useless filler.

I think the washing machine comment was put in there by the writers to screw with all of the people who spent hours speculating on whether the new washing machine was a continuity error or something more meaningful.

How far ahead does this series film? Most of the hatch info came this season in S2-1, which aired in September.

Ed

is it me, or does ABC always manage to put religion into everything?!!?!?!?!? I dont watch lost to be told what to believe, i think its getting a little too much now. As far as the washer/dryer, i dont know how ANYBODY can even remotely think that it was a mistake, they obviously were put there for a reason. If everything was new, and 1 thing was old, maybe, but they obviously went out of their way to make everythign in the hatch look old. They went out, and found a old stereo, a old everything, and found a new washer?? its not like it was their already on the set and they didnt realise it, they built the set from scratch, brought every part, it was put there on purpose to serve a purpose.

I think the line last night about the washing machine being new, was directed at the 99% of the people who didnt realise they were new. Believe it or not, most people dont watch lost in slow motion, so for those normal people who didnt know it was new, that was a hint to them.
As far as locke with the statues, if i was on a island with no way of getting any new supplies ever, i wouldnt throw ANYTHING out, you never know what may come in handy down the line.

If we pretend the episode was interesting, we could mention the stuffed white polar bear in the crib of the Driveshaft commercial.

.
They need to kill off somebody again, I think Charlie is going crazy enough to be the one.
I agree with those who thought this may heve been the worst episode in the series.

But I also agree with the comment above as to one of the possibilities for Charlie.

Either he is going to get killed martyr-like while saving/protecting the baby (ties in with the dreams, which I don't think had anything to do with Baptism); or

due to his (continuing) alienation by the other 'Losters', Charlie will turn traitor and be the first (as far as we know) to willfully join the 'Others' camp....

And THEN (at some point in the future), have a change of heart and get killed martyr-like while saving/protecting the baby and/or Claire. ;)

__________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Slow down sista! Brooklyn in da house!

I think Ana Lucia wants a three way with Kate and Jack.

Jack was like, come again?

Jack bangs AL to get Kate jealous?

Kate bangs Sawyer to get Jack jealous?

At least they (the writers) finally made reference to something we've been speculating about all this time.

Heroin is an opiate and can be used in a pinch as a pain reliever in extreme circumstances. My only thought as to why he would do that...

That being the case, wouldn't he take the stuff out of the statues?

Why do people come here to post how much they hated the show? Why would anyone want to hear about that? I say don't let the screen door hit you on your way out!

Personally I thought it was excellent. I especially liked the dream sequence with Claire, Charlie's Mom and the dove. It was visually stunning. Charlies back story also helped to explain why he would be so adamant about trying to 'save' Aaron.

Did anyone notice the song that was playing when Charlie first entered his apartment was the same Kinks song he was singing to Jin a couple of episodes back.

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that Charlie seems to be the one who is starting to become 'sick' from the island. It will be interesting to see where it leads.

I also really like the spiritual story lines. I was however surprised that after Claire asked Eko if he thought that Aaron needed baptising and he went on to tell the story of when John the Baptist baptised Jesus and that told him something - that he had cleansed him of all his sins, Eko went on to baptise Aaron. What sin does a baby need to be cleansed of?

They need to kill off somebody again, I think Charlie is going crazy enough to be the one.

Last night caused me to think Charlie will be the next 'fatality' also.

...As far as the washer/dryer, i dont know how ANYBODY can even remotely think that it was a mistake, they obviously were put there for a reason. If everything was new, and 1 thing was old, maybe, but they obviously went out of their way to make everythign in the hatch look old. They went out, and found a old stereo, a old everything, and found a new washer?? its not like it was their already on the set and they didnt realise it, they built the set from scratch, brought every part, it was put there on purpose to serve a purpose.

Finally. Thank you!

Why do people come here to post how much they hated the show? Why would anyone want to hear about that? I say don't let the screen door hit you on your way out!

Because I thought this was the "Lost, No Spoilers" thread, not the "Lost, Post Only If Viewing Through Rose Colored Glasses" thread. Gimmee a break please. When you've been watching a show religiously for nearly two years now - as most in this thread obviously have - I believe you earn a certain right to critique however you want. Maybe, if all you're looking for is sycophantic praise no matter how lame an episode, then it should be you that shouldn't let the screen door hit you on the way out.

I also really like the spiritual story lines. I was however surprised that after Claire asked Eko if he thought that Aaron needed baptising and he went on to tell the story of when John the Baptist baptised Jesus and that told him something - that he had cleansed him of all his sins, Eko went on to baptise Aaron. What sin does a baby need to be cleansed of?

I do too, leads to lots of potential story lines. And the baby - perhaps baptising him will ensure his "goodness" and give him some protection against the Others...? And I agree that Charlie is appearing to become "sick"; soon, I suspect, he will become a danger. Perhaps even the danger that he himself is envisioning.

To those who were disappointed in this episode, remember that they've got 22 hours to fill - there are bound to be some slower episodes; I know they're necessary and don't mind them. Even a not-so-action-packed Lost is better than most of what fills the airwaves. And remember that we have February sweeps coming up so there are bound to be some slam-bang eps ahead in the next month. Patience is a virtue. :)

What sin does a baby need to be cleansed of?

w/o getting too OT, I'm pretty sure it has to do with the RC conception of original sin.

Because I thought this was the "Lost, No Spoilers" thread, not the "Lost, Post Only If Viewing Through Rose Colored Glasses" thread. Gimmee a break please. When you've been watching a show religiously for nearly two years now - as most in this thread obviously have - I believe you earn a certain right to critique however you want. Maybe, if all you're looking for is sycophantic praise no matter how lame an episode, then it should be you that shouldn't let the screen door hit you on the way out.

You are right. You are free to 'critique' however you want. But that still doesn't mean I want to listen to you whine like a baby. Luckily for me I can just ignore you since you still seem to think your whining actually serves a purpose other than to satisfy your own self-serving desires.

Because I thought this was the "Lost, No Spoilers" thread, not the "Lost, Post Only If Viewing Through Rose Colored Glasses" thread. Gimmee a break please. When you've been watching a show religiously for nearly two years now - as most in this thread obviously have - I believe you earn a certain right to critique however you want. Maybe, if all you're looking for is sycophantic praise no matter how lame an episode, then it should be you that shouldn't let the screen door hit you on the way out.


Sangs very well put ABC better be careful because I think this show may have peaked in viewers and now it seems others like me are getting bored with it never mind more repeats.

It definitely was not one of the more interesting episodes. :(

But ABC did gain the "men in diapers" demographic. :rolleyes:

It's a discussion thread, expect full discussion of all episodes - that includes episodes everyone loved and those that some (or most) disliked.

Also, there's a big difference between a poster that pans the show from the beginning, thinks it's stupid, and continually questions why anyone watches - and someone that is a fan of the show who is disappointed with some or all of a particular episode(s).

I was disappointed with the episode because Locke seemed so out of character. Up until now, he was portrayed as the person most in touch with the island and its strange effect on people and yet he showed no curiosity or empathy towards Charlie's experiences. I was really shocked when he hit Charlie. I hope it is part of the story line (maybe Locke is becoming infected?) and not just sloppy writing.

Why were you surprised that Locke attacked Charlie? Locke at times has withdrawn information and attacked people before when they were "not ready" (attacked Sayid Season 1). He knows Charlie is onto something. Charlie wants the baby baptised because he thinks it will be killed somehow, and it will enter heaven. Does Claire have a demon child that needs to be killed (or exorcised)?

Or I could be totally wrong.

Nobody mentioned the signage on the london building yet that they mentioned in the podcast. I was wondering if anybody cought anything? I did see (right before it showed the UndergrounD sign) that Liam walked past a torn poster that said:

something (paper was torn)
missing for three weeks
reward
call (number here)

Maybe it's a number to call that gives info on Walt.

I'm more disappointed with the flaming going on this morning than the episode last night.
You are not changing anyone's opinion so what's the point?

I'm more disappointed with the flaming going on this morning than the episode last night.
You are not changing anyone's opinion so what's the point?
im more disapointed with the people who are disapointed with the people who are disapointed with the episode then i am of people who are actually disapointed in the episode.

im more disapointed with the people who are disapointed with the people who are disapointed with the episode then i am of people who are actually disapointed in the episode.

So...basically...you're just all-around disappointed?

So...basically...you're just all-around disappointed?
i am disapointed in you for even asking that.

And next week a repeat from season 1! Boo...hiss...

Either he is going to get killed martyr-like while saving/protecting the baby (ties in with the dreams, which I don't think had anything to do with Baptism); or

due to his (continuing) alienation by the other 'Losters', Charlie will turn traitor and be the first (as far as we know) to willfully join the 'Others' camp....

And THEN (at some point in the future), have a change of heart and get killed martyr-like while saving/protecting the baby and/or Claire. ;)

__________________________________________________
Palladin


I was thinking about this as well. I could see him running off and joining the Others. Actually, I wish he would. Charlie is the most annoying character on the show and this would mean very little screen time.:)

Also, I think this was the worst show of the two seasons. It seems the more screen time Charlie receives, the worse the show is.

Ericglo

Heck, I liked the episode.

- Tom

is it me, or does ABC always manage to put religion into everything?!!?!?!?!?

Welcome to America circa 2006. :(

People who complain that there was no character development in last night's episode are ignoring the fact that now Charlie is completely ostracized from the rest of the group, which is a significant turn of events for him and may lead interesting places (is he infected?).

There were also a lot of good lines last night: Sawyer goading Hurley into flirting with Libby, "Is this washing machine much newer than everything else in here?", "You hittin' that?". Some classic stuff there.

Question: Libby says that Hurley stepped on her foot on the plane. I vaguely recall that. Has anyone looked at that S1 episode to see if it was really Cynthia Watros?

Libby is obviously hiding something from Hurley. I suspect that she was actually a mental patient in the same ward he was in, not a psychologist as she's been telling everyone. I mean, she's sexually attracted to Hurley, she's got to be a little crazy!

The opening scene just made me think that someone on the Lost staff is obviously a fan of The Piano.

What a letdown!


A bunch of weird religious nonsense unrelated to the plot, I don't mind a little religion in the show, especially since it deals with the supernatural.. but this was a bit overblown to the point of being obnoxious.


I think the religious stuff was more due to Charlie's character than island supernatural. Charlie was raised Irish Catholic, so a lot of that imagery would be ingrained in him, part of who he is and how he would interpret dreams (least, thats what I think the writers were trying to accomplish)

is it me, or does ABC always manage to put religion into everything?!!?!?!?!? I dont watch lost to be told what to believe, i think its getting a little too much now.

Everything? Does Desperate Housewives have too much religion? Extreme Home Makeover? Dancing with the Stars? I think you might be over-reacting a bit on this one. Honestly, I didn't think it was overly religious...and I'm not even Catholic.

First off, Claire's baby is freaking gigantic. If that sweet little thing really gave birth to that kid, she would still be limping.

The washer and dryer scene was to point out to the clueless who watch (the majority of the populous) that the hatch is/was still in operation by outside peoples a very short time ago, if not still being operated by.

I definately think the opportunity for Charlie to save the baby is fast approaching. I predict when this crunch time occurs, Charlie fails to deliver.

I also believe that a serious division of the camp if fast approaching due to a big time power struggle.

Kate and Charlie are a real life couple apparently. (go figure)

"is it me, or does ABC always manage to put religion into everything?!!?!?!?!? I dont watch lost to be told what to believe, i think its getting a little too much now."

They are still trying to make up for Terrel Owens fiasco.

Everything? Does Desperate Housewives have too much religion? Extreme Home Makeover? Dancing with the Stars? I think you might be over-reacting a bit on this one. Honestly, I didn't think it was overly religious...and I'm not even Catholic.
'everything' was a exageration, BUT i was actually specifically reffering to home make over. Have you EVER watched a home makeover show where the people didnt say 'OHHH GOODDDDDDDD THANKYOU JESUS OHH PRAISE GOD' when they seen their house? I have paid attention, i honestly dont think i have. Granted i havent watched in the past year or so, but in the past, everybody says "OH GOD THANK GOD", and not just as a saying, they say it with meaning. And a laaaaaaaaaaaaarge part of the recepients are part of the church. Watch, now that i pointed it out im sure you will notice it. BUT, didnt mean to start a abc/religion argument, as far as the show goes i just dont like the whole religious overtone that it seems to be taking to me. It scares me to think the whole island is going to be some sort of heaven/hell thing, the whole darhma project has somethign to do with religion. Not what i am looking forward to.

Um, dude in psych ward, and clinical psychologist...of course he knows her! :)

~Dan

I am speculating that she will turn out to have been a patient as well and is just claiming to be a clinical psychologist.

I keep trying to remember the background story on Claire from season one when the psychic was very freaked out somehow about her baby. Anyone have insight or remember any more details? We've known for a long time that her baby would play a major role somehow.

As we watched last night we kept thinking it was a very weak story. More flashbacks for a character that didn't teach us anything we didn't already know. I can only guess that this is a setup episode for things in the future. Locke seemed odd to me. It's like he knew Charlie wasn't using but wants Charlie to think he DOES believe he is. Personally, I'm guessing Charlie is not using again. I could be wrong.

I wonder if Locke is somehow "hosting" the nanobots in his body. They help him walk and give him little insights from time to time.

'everything' was a exageration, BUT i was actually specifically reffering to home make over. Have you EVER watched a home makeover show where the people didnt say 'OHHH GOODDDDDDDD THANKYOU JESUS OHH PRAISE GOD' when they seen their house? I have paid attention, i honestly dont think i have. Granted i havent watched in the past year or so, but in the past, everybody says "OH GOD THANK GOD", and not just as a saying, they say it with meaning. And a laaaaaaaaaaaaarge part of the recepients are part of the church. Watch, now that i pointed it out im sure you will notice it. BUT, didnt mean to start a abc/religion argument, as far as the show goes i just dont like the whole religious overtone that it seems to be taking to me. It scares me to think the whole island is going to be some sort of heaven/hell thing, the whole darhma project has somethign to do with religion. Not what i am looking forward to.

Its not like they are reading off a freakin script or anything. If that is the way they respond then thats how they respond, ABC has nothing to do with it. I know its hard to believe but faith is a big part of alot of peoples life, even bigger than HDTV.

Locke looked evil too me at one point, as he stared at Charlie talking to Claire. I believe the phsycic warned her not to let another raise her baby. Maybe Locke is the person she was warned about.

'everything' was a exageration, BUT i was actually specifically reffering to home make over. Have you EVER watched a home makeover show where the people didnt say 'OHHH GOODDDDDDDD THANKYOU JESUS OHH PRAISE GOD' when they seen their house? I have paid attention, i honestly dont think i have. Granted i havent watched in the past year or so, but in the past, everybody says "OH GOD THANK GOD", and not just as a saying, they say it with meaning. And a laaaaaaaaaaaaarge part of the recepients are part of the church. Watch, now that i pointed it out im sure you will notice it. BUT, didnt mean to start a abc/religion argument, as far as the show goes i just dont like the whole religious overtone that it seems to be taking to me. It scares me to think the whole island is going to be some sort of heaven/hell thing, the whole darhma project has somethign to do with religion. Not what i am looking forward to.

I understand your point. I still don't see how those statements made by real people without a script would qualify as inserting religion into shows. The producers are just capturing what happens. I watch people thank God at awards shows and sporting events all the time. Doesn't bother me in the least. It's their life and they can say what they want. Your original post made it seem like you didn't like HEARING what other people believe, since that's basically what happened in the episode.

Lost seems to be gathering plot ideas from many different sources, including religious and philosophical ones, merging them together to create storyline. We've seen clues given from philosophy, religion, comic books, the meta-physical. They're all being blended to make a story.

http://www.enterstageright.com/blog/gmarchives/cbg.jpg

Anyone catch what Charlie said when he was arguing with Locke in the jungle after Locke found him with the statues? He made a couple comments about how Kate saw the horse, yet no one jumped on her, and that people have been seeing Walt all over the jungle. Seems that our islanders have been sharing some info among eachother, the writers just haven't shown it on screen...

If I remember correctly, didn't the French Women tell Sayid to watch and see if anyone is becomes sick? It looks to me like Micheal and now Charlie have become "sick". Their hallucinations did not lead to a healing like Kate's or Jack (w/ his father).

Also, it seems to Locke has turned, maybe he is siding w/ the Others. He always out in the freaking forest, yet nothing happens to him. Definately something going down with him, why change the combination again? Maybe his intentions will be revealed in the next episode.

Horribly dull episode. I'm not a die-hard nit-picky Lost fan, but I have enjoyed watching all the shows for what they are worth, which has simply been entertainment value. Why did everyone freak out when there was a fire in "camp," when everyone seems to have their little abodes on the beach/sand? That was just ridiculous. First time I have wanted the episode to end as quickly as possible.

Charlie's yellowy dream/vision steered the show dangerously close to "The owls are not what they seem!" territory. And Charlie disguising himself as the Unibomber while carrying out his dumb baby-snatching plan ("no one on the island will be able to ID me now!") was not a good sign either. They set up the backstory pretty well but they went too far with the religious imagery. How long until Lostaways start seeing angels in the jungle?

Anyone catch what Charlie said when he was arguing with Locke in the jungle after Locke found him with the statues? He made a couple comments about how Kate saw the horse, yet no one jumped on her, and that people have been seeing Walt all over the jungle. Seems that our islanders have been sharing some info among eachother, the writers just haven't shown it on screen...

I thought that was great! Similar to Hugo's speech to the french lady last year. And he had a valid point. All kinds of wierd stuff happens on the island and nobody blinks, but when wierd stuff happens to the drug addict, the automatic assumption is its because of the drugs.

and he had another great one for Hurley last week that I can't remember right now.
Are you referring to him calling Hurley Pillsbury?

So anyone think Locke is/or wants to be doing Claire? She is looking better every week. Not Kate or Shannon good, but better.

So now that Charlie is ostracized from the group, will he go off to the other side and try to join the others? Get revenge on Locke for stealing his girl/baby?

"Claire? She is looking better every week. Not Kate or Shannon good, but better."

Claire is the hottest chick on that show IMO. Her eyes are beautiful (yes, I know that is a pussyish thing to say, but they really, really are).

Anyone catch what Charlie said when he was arguing with Locke in the jungle after Locke found him with the statues? He made a couple comments about how Kate saw the horse, yet no one jumped on her, and that people have been seeing Walt all over the jungle. Seems that our islanders have been sharing some info among eachother, the writers just haven't shown it on screen...

Yet another (this makes 3 this ep) homage to the ever-vigilant fans?

How long until Lostaways start seeing angels in the jungle?

3 weeks. ;)

Horribly dull episode.

Even worse if you're not a "Charlie" fan.

Its sad to see how this show has deteriorated from last season. Some posters on this forum were hypothesizing that the writers' were caught off-guard by it's popluarity and had to find ways to stretch out the storyline. Unfortunately, they did this by minimizing the mystery/supernatural angle and turning it into a soap opera.

Now I know I'm going to get flamed for this by the "character-driven" crowd here but let's call it like it is.

Heck...I don't even remember the last time I saw Kate in her undies! :o

Anyone catch what Charlie said when he was arguing with Locke in the jungle after Locke found him with the statues? He made a couple comments about how Kate saw the horse, yet no one jumped on her, and that people have been seeing Walt all over the jungle. Seems that our islanders have been sharing some info among eachother, the writers just haven't shown it on screen...
I nearly fell off my chair laughing at that one. He really did have a good point, too. However, I think the real difference is he came off like a raving lunatic. The other people kept the stuff mostly to themselves, cautiously revealing stuff to other characters. That may have been Charlie's real mistake - he took a reactionary stance rather than confiding in someone. He missed a perfect opportunity while Jack was stitching him up.

Charlie's yellowy dream/vision steered the show dangerously close to "The owls are not what they seem!" territory. And Charlie disguising himself as the Unibomber while carrying out his dumb baby-snatching plan ("no one on the island will be able to ID me now!") was not a good sign either. They set up the backstory pretty well but they went too far with the religious imagery. How long until Lostaways start seeing angels in the jungle?
Charlie has mentioned before that he was an altar boy and I think his flashback last year may of had him becoming a priest, then he started Driveshaft. So religious imagery would probably be appropriate for Charlie.

"Claire? She is looking better every week. Not Kate or Shannon good, but better."

Claire is the hottest chick on that show IMO. Her eyes are beautiful (yes, I know that is a pussyish thing to say, but they really, really are).

I thought for sure Claire was the benefactor of Shannon's makeup stash.

And didn't Hurley look great in robes?!!

Also, Original Sin is not strictly an RC belief. It is shared by all Christians. And I think the Aaron baptism will become a very important part in his future on the island, given the warnings of the mystic to Claire. It now poses difficulties to those who would exploit him for whatever specialties he carries. Of course, we may need to have 15 years of episodes to go by before the real import shows. ;)

"Claire? She is looking better every week. Not Kate or Shannon good, but better."

Claire is the hottest chick on that show IMO. Her eyes are beautiful (yes, I know that is a pussyish thing to say, but they really, really are).Pussyish? How is that pussyish? Is it only manly to be obsessed with large breasts? Personally, I'm a nice legs/butt and eyes man myself and I don't see anything pussyish about that at all :D. Claire's got very nice eyes and I have to agree, she's been looking quite good lately.

I thought the EP was fine. Definitely not fast paced, but interesting and intriguing none the less. What I don't understand are the continued complaints about the exploration of the characters via backstory. That is a large part of the show and has been since the very beginning. It's not something new. If people have not figured that out by now all I can say is they must be a little slow themselves.

The washer/dryer exchange between Hurley and Libby was classic. Especially the second line from Libby about how she likes people that "keep it simple". That alone was worth the price of admission last night.

As far as the religious aspects go I think it all plays into the overall themes of black/white, good/evil etc which the show has been building on since the beginning. I'm not a spiritual person myself and it doesn't bother me at all because it's part of the story, not that they are trying to espouse anything.

I also think we are beginning to see a subtle outward shift in Locke that is tied into the overall "choosing sides", separate factions line. I did think the punching out of Charlie was indicative of that and think it will be interesting to see how they play out that whole idea moving forward.

The comments from Charlie to Locke regarding how other people are seeing things, the confrontation with the others last ep etc. I think was partially put in to show people that the Losties are sharing a bit more info between themselves than has been explicitly shown. I think the idea is that in the beginning they were deliberatly hiding more stuff from each other just because of suspicion, trying to avoid panic among the group etc, and since then they have loosened up and have been more open about things but just don't spend the air time showing them doing it.


ron

I keep trying to remember the background story on Claire from season one when the psychic was very freaked out somehow about her baby. Anyone have insight or remember any more details? We've known for a long time that her baby would play a major role somehow.

As we watched last night we kept thinking it was a very weak story. More flashbacks for a character that didn't teach us anything we didn't already know. I can only guess that this is a setup episode for things in the future. Locke seemed odd to me. It's like he knew Charlie wasn't using but wants Charlie to think he DOES believe he is. Personally, I'm guessing Charlie is not using again. I could be wrong.

I wonder if Locke is somehow "hosting" the nanobots in his body. They help him walk and give him little insights from time to time.

The psychic told Claire that is was extremely important that her and only her be the one to raise the baby.

I noticed her eyes as well they really were stunning

You are right. You are free to 'critique' however you want. But that still doesn't mean I want to listen to you whine like a baby. Luckily for me I can just ignore you since you still seem to think your whining actually serves a purpose other than to satisfy your own self-serving desires.

Hmm, seems you're a wee bit in the minority here friend. Maybe you should take your signature line to heart eh? ;)

Those that didn't like the episode must think Lost is an action show, or a sci-fi show. From the beginning it has been a character-driven show. And if an episode that is purely about a character bores you I'd say get off the bandwagon now because you've completely missed the point - and there are probably many more to come.

As for "too much religion", I assume you've got something against Catholicism and Christianity? The show has always been chock full of eastern religious references (Taoism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc) and I haven't seen anyone complain about those. I think mixing different elements of all these eastern and western religions is very interesting - I don't think anyone is trying to convert me!

...Eko went on to baptise Aaron. What sin does a baby need to be cleansed of?
Original Sin.

Does Claire have a demon child that needs to be killed (or exorcised)?
I'm pretty sure that if Aaron was the Anti-Christ, it wouldn't put up with being baptized... ;)

I also think we are beginning to see a subtle outward shift in Locke that is tied into the overall "choosing sides", separate factions line. I did think the punching out of Charlie was indicative of that and think it will be interesting to see how they play out that whole idea moving forward.

I think you're right.

We've seen Locke at odds with most of the gang before; the trailer for next week shows it happening yet again in regards to getting access to the guns.

Let's face it, though: Charlie deserved the beatdown that he got.

I am speculating that she will turn out to have been a patient as well and is just claiming to be a clinical psychologist.
Hmmm...that would be an interesting twist.

Originally, I thought she was a Dharma plant to the island (the plane crash seems to have been expected...). Perhaps she was stationed at the psych ward to keep an eye on Hurley's pal who kept reciting the numbers...

~Dan

Locke looked evil too me at one point, as he stared at Charlie talking to Claire. I believe the phsycic warned her not to let another raise her baby. Maybe Locke is the person she was warned about.
It was the same look he had at the end of a Season 1 episode, where he appeared to be glaring at Walt...

~Dan

Let's face it, though: Charlie deserved the beatdown that he got.

Charlie showed a lack of understanding of the rule of confrontational management, he just didn't know when to SHUT UP!

Those that didn't like the episode must think Lost is an action show, or a sci-fi show
And if an episode that is purely about a character bores you I'd say get off the bandwagon now because you've completely missed the point - and there are probably many more to come.
. !

Just express you liked the episode and why, no need to attack other members of the board. :)

Its sad to see how this show has deteriorated from last season. Some posters on this forum were hypothesizing that the writers' were caught off-guard by it's popluarity and had to find ways to stretch out the storyline. Unfortunately, they did this by minimizing the mystery/supernatural angle and turning it into a soap opera.

Half the people in this thread are complaining that there aren't enough sci-fi/supernatural elements in the show anymore, and the other half are complaining that there are too many sci-fi/supernatural elements.

Perhaps it's time for us to split into two groups and head to opposite sides of the island?

Charlie showed a lack of understanding of the rule of confrontational management, he just didn't know when to SHUT UP!

LOL, exactly. Even if he meant well, 9/10 of us would have been exactly the same way: "WTF is the matter with you, psycho?!" BAM!

Let's face it, though: Charlie deserved the beatdown that he got.

I disagree. Charlie is clearly being manipulated by powers outside of his control. Locke, of all people, should have been a bit more understanding of this new mystery on an island where he embraces the mysterious. It should have been clear to him (and Claire) that Charlie isn't back on the smack (hard to hide those symptoms unless you're Jack Bauer). I was baffled by Locke's overly violent response (he hit him again and again...); might he now be beginning to be affected by the "sickness"?

...I was baffled by Locke's overly violent response (he hit him again and again...); might he now be beginning to be affected by the "sickness"?


I agree with this. We all might have slugged Charlie one good one, but Locke hit him two more times when he was already down. Something is definately up with Locke.

Just express you liked the episode and why, no need to attack other members of the board. :)

My post was no attack - especially compared to some earlier posts by others! I just think people who dislike episodes that don't deal with the island mythology or are not filled with action and cliffhangers are missing why this is such a great show.

Half the people in this thread are complaining that there aren't enough sci-fi/supernatural elements in the show anymore, and the other half are complaining that there are too many sci-fi/supernatural elements.

Perhaps it's time for us to split into two groups and head to opposite sides of the island?


Best. Post. Ever!

I think you're right.

We've seen Locke at odds with most of the gang before; the trailer for next week shows it happening yet again in regards to getting access to the guns.

Let's face it, though: Charlie deserved the beatdown that he got.


I agree with how Locke (or anyone) would want to hit Charlie (arson and kidnapping). But the situation was over. It wasn't necessary to hit him. I'm a bit 'pissed' at Locke and his holier than thou attitude towards charlie. Locke once had a vision and was obsessed with following it. He got Boone killed. He's never apologized or showed any real remorse for it.

I'm surprised Sayid or Jack haven't considered the possibility (as others here have mentioned) that he is becoming 'sick' like the French woman's party. It's Charlie's own fault of course, for his history of addiction and his hoarding of drugs.

I personally don't think Charlie has actually been taking the drugs, he not showing any of the signs of addiction (twitches, scratching, glazed eyes, enlarged pupils etc.)

Charlie has mentioned before that he was an altar boy and I think his flashback last year may of had him becoming a priest, then he started Driveshaft. So religious imagery would probably be appropriate for Charlie.
They went too far with the religious imagery in that they shot it through a cheesy yellow fog filter so it looked like a drug hallucination from a low budget movie, as if we couldn't figure out it wasn't really happening. The scenes where Charlie was dreaming but everything looked normal were much more effective.

<clipped>
I personally don't think Charlie has actually been taking the drugs, he not showing any of the signs of addiction (twitches, scratching, glazed eyes, enlarged pupils etc.)

Basing that judment on how charlie looked during the flashbacks, I would be reluctant to say definitively that he was using or not. During the flashbacks, he was using, but seemed to be 'maintaining', and looked realtively swell (as compared to his brother).

Not to mention, we are only privy to as much as the writers/directors are willing to reveal to us. If they want him to look like he is using, they can make it look like it. I personally believe he was using, especially condsidering how elusive he was being to Locke initialy under direct questioning.
$.02

Half the people in this thread are complaining that there aren't enough sci-fi/supernatural elements in the show anymore, and the other half are complaining that there are too many sci-fi/supernatural elements.

Perhaps it's time for us to split into two groups and head to opposite sides of the island?


I think you just won the thread outright. ;)

They went too far with the religious imagery in that they shot it through a cheesy yellow fog filter so it looked like a drug hallucination from a low budget movie, as if we couldn't figure out it wasn't really happening. The scenes where Charlie was dreaming but everything looked normal were much more effective.
If you're talking about the "robes" scene, I disagree. I thought that "religious dream" were overlayed with a crosshatch type filter that made it look very much like a painting. Everything also had a very "flat" look to it, perfect for that shot.

And if "half the people in this thread are complaining that there aren't enough sci-fi/supernatural elements in the show anymore, and the other half are complaining that there are too many sci-fi/supernatural elements", that says to me that the writers have struck the perfect balance between the two.

Charlie's character seems to be very much about cycles -- highs and lows. The flashbacks helped "humanize" him some more and give a bit more insight into his actions on the island that episode. We had a long AL flashback to help explain her Shannon shooting and reaction. We had a long Charlie flashback to help explain his baby obsession and reaction.

Following Charlie's piano made it much more meaningful when it was sold. And we got to see Charlie again chosing to or been forced to give up something precious to him as a sacrifice for a greater good (heroin for his guitar, piano for his brother's family, his reputation for Turnip Head's baptism).

I have a feeling this episode will be a setup for killing him off. Just in time for sweeps, he'll die again as a martyr, redeeming himself in the Losties' eyes. He'll choose to give up his life to stop the Others from making Turnip soup or something.

GRRR I so hate locke now!!

what a friggin a-hole!!! so does he think he's everyone's daddy now? And why did he keep the statues and lock them up, is he a friggin druggy? Gosh I so wanna kill him...

I'm a bit 'pissed' at Locke and his holier than thou attitude towards charlie. Locke once had a vision and was obsessed with following it. He got Boone killed. He's never apologized or showed any real remorse for it.

I'm surprised Sayid or Jack haven't considered the possibility (as others here have mentioned) that he is becoming 'sick' like the French woman's party.

You're taking Lost too seriously. The plot - if any - is absurd, the characters' actions don't make much sense and the dialog is so bad that it's funny. The show looks good but has no brains.

R

Since the beginning Locke has been using his diplomatic skills to manipulate those around them to serve his purposes, and his purposes only. His manipulations has lead to death and other problems in the camp.

Do you recall the episode where Claire dreamt of Locke who had one white eye and one black eye? I wonder why that hasn't been brought back or reinforced, as it seemed to allude to a person balanced between the both.

-JR

GRRR I so hate locke now!!

what a friggin a-hole!!! so does he think he's everyone's daddy now? And why did he keep the statues and lock them up, is he a friggin druggy? Gosh I so wanna kill him...

Sorry, but Locke did the right thing. This guy took her BABY, Man. Kidanpped him, essentially. Since he can't be locked up (guess AL lost her cajones) this was the next best thing.

bgall, do you have kids???

Like Jack doesn't think he's everyone's daddy? He's always attempting to run off and rescue everyone and denying the other people their desire to help him. Look how many times he's all but smacked down Kate trying to"protect" her from harm.

Locke has always been protective of the baby. He's the one who built the cradle and helped Claire essentially learn to take care of the kid.

You're taking Lost too seriously. The plot - if any - is absurd, the characters' actions don't make much sense and the dialog is so bad that it's funny. The show looks good but has no brains.

R

Uh...thanks for that; at least you acknowledged the high production values which we all hold in such high esteem. You can go now. :rolleyes:

Speaking of production values --- it sure looked like Charlie was getting stitches for real at the end, didn't it?

Half the people in this thread are complaining that there aren't enough sci-fi/supernatural elements in the show anymore, and the other half are complaining that there are too many sci-fi/supernatural elements.

Perhaps it's time for us to split into two groups and head to opposite sides of the island?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Not that again! (anybody seen that [lost] spoilers thread anywhere?)

...
I personally don't think Charlie has actually been taking the drugs, he not showing any of the signs of addiction (twitches, scratching, glazed eyes, enlarged pupils etc.) I'm not so sure although "we" never see him using. It did seem to me that, towards the end of the hour, his eyes didn't look quite right. Maybe he was suffering sleep deprivation. He's been having nightmares afterall, but it sure seems like "that boy just ain't right".

...I was baffled by Locke's overly violent response (he hit him again and again...); might he now be beginning to be affected by the "sickness"?

Might be he's trying to get the point across to Charlie in advance that Charlie better stay clear when he (Locke) puts the move on Claire.

Maybe the dingos will eat her baby...

Anyone think Libby's cozying up to Hurley because she recognizes him as a lottery winner?

Anyone think Libby's cozying up to Hurley because she recognizes him as a lottery winner?

Yeah, my wife mentioned the same thing. Women think alike. :p

I agree with how Locke (or anyone) would want to hit Charlie (arson and kidnapping). But the situation was over. It wasn't necessary to hit him. I'm a bit 'pissed' at Locke and his holier than thou attitude towards charlie. Locke once had a vision and was obsessed with following it. He got Boone killed. He's never apologized or showed any real remorse for it.

I'm surprised Sayid or Jack haven't considered the possibility (as others here have mentioned) that he is becoming 'sick' like the French woman's party. It's Charlie's own fault of course, for his history of addiction and his hoarding of drugs.

I personally don't think Charlie has actually been taking the drugs, he not showing any of the signs of addiction (twitches, scratching, glazed eyes, enlarged pupils etc.)My thoughts were pretty much the same as this. It was basically over and there was really no need to pummel Charlie. What does that accomplish? It actually surprised me that Locke did it and that all the others seemingly condoned it. Nobody questions why Charlie was essentially freaking out? Simply assumes he's high? With all the weird, bizarre stuff going on on the island, I would think they'd have a little more compassion than that. I mean hell, instead of beating the crap out of him they could have just dug a pit and thrown him in it if they wanted :D. For someone as supposedly "enlightened" as Locke is just didn't make sense which further leads to the suspicion of "other" stuff going on. Locke likes that baby a bit too much, and we know "the island" has connected with him. I can't wait to find out exactly what Aron's significance will be in the end...


ron

...heroin for his guitar, piano for his brother's family, his reputation for Turnip Head's baptism...

Cool, we have our own Sawyer on this thread...great nickname! :D

Speaking of production values --- it sure looked like Charlie was getting stitches for real at the end, didn't it?

My wife and I both winced when it happened! Don't know if they had a false, prosthetic cheek on him that the needle went through, but if it wasn't real, it was very well done!

Cool, we have our own Sawyer on this thread...great nickname! :D

Turnip Head was the nickname that Charlie originally gave to Claire's baby shortly after she gave birth.

My wife and I both winced when it happened! Don't know if they had a false, prosthetic cheek on him that the needle went through, but if it wasn't real, it was very well done!

I don't think there is much chance that let someone put a needle through an actors face on camera...

Ed

I have actually been thinking that Libby may have been following Hurley. It may be because of the lottery thing or for some other reason. Although I am not sure about the lottery idea. What is she supposed to do marry Jabba and move to some South Pacific island paradise?:)

JThree,
I disagree. The character development in the Ecko episode was much better than this Charlie episode. It didn't need action or sci-fi to make it a great episode. Charlie and the episode are the weak links and need to be voted off of the island.:)

Ericglo

I don't think there is much chance that let someone put a needle through an actors face on camera...

EdUnless you're that guy on the Discovery Channel that hangs out in the jungle visiting remote tribes.

That being said, it's pretty safe to assume it was simulated.

JThree,
I disagree. The character development in the Ecko episode was much better than this Charlie episode. It didn't need action or sci-fi to make it a great episode. Charlie and the episode are the weak links and need to be voted off of the island.:)


That had the benefit of being the first time we'd learned anything about Eko's past. We've had several Charlie episodes. That said, Eko's was a great episode!

I couldn't quite make out what happened to Sun on the preview for next episode. So, I had to go back through frame by frame. A bag gets thrown over her head, then her hands are bound as someone (Caucasian) drags her through the jungle. But she obviously escapes as she later is seen running through the jungle.

I just finished Veronica Mars tonight where at the end she stuck a fortune cookie on a mirror. It had the Lost numbers on it. Viral marketing or just others getting into the act?

- Tom

Thanks for pointing that out earlier...when I watched the Tivo I was looking for it! So, which writer from Veronica Mars is lurking on this board? Huh? C'mon, fess up!

Unless you're that guy on the Discovery Channel that hangs out in the jungle visiting remote tribes.

That being said, it's pretty safe to assume it was simulated.

Agree. However I expect the cringe on his face was real, as most of us would react that way even with a thin fake device over our facial skin and a needle approaching...

Ed

I couldn't quite make out what happened to Sun on the preview for next episode. So, I had to go back through frame by frame. A bag gets thrown over her head, then her hands are bound as someone (Caucasian) drags her through the jungle. But she obviously escapes as she later is seen running through the jungle.

How about this timeline. She is running through the jungle, stumbles, falls and is captured? All preiviews are not necessarily in chronological order.

I actually thought the prosthetic was fairly obvious - I pointed out the purple, spotted, unnatural-looking area around the wound to my family and said I bet they're gonna stick him with the needle. Big screen, however.

I'm sure during the first take Dominc screamed "Ooouch! My face! Stop Matt! The prosthetic isn't thick enough!" :)

Why do people come here to post how much they hated the show? Why would anyone want to hear about that? I say don't let the screen door hit you on your way out!



Don't sweat it I imagine that everyone who posts, "worst episode ever!" type of comment look like the Simpson's comic book guy. I guess they forget is it is a drama with sci-fi elements not just a scifi show. Acceptance is part of the of the grieving process. :)

Chuck

The really funny part is that we all know those guys who complain and threaten to stop watching or "delete it from my TiVo" are lying through their teeth. They'll still be watching every week, then coming here to complain some more. It's comforting, in a way; something you can count on. :D

The mind does tend to wander these days, but between flashbacks of the penguins wrapping my knuckles and genuflection practice, I seem to remember the core essence of infant baptism under Catholic dogma was to keep them out of limbo, the so-called limbus infantium version, resulting from them passing with original sin without burden of grievous personal guilt.

Limbo. Now where have I heard that before? :)

You're taking Lost too seriously. The plot - if any - is absurd, the characters' actions don't make much sense and the dialog is so bad that it's funny. The show looks good but has no brains.

R


That's why I put 'pissed' in quotes. I'm not ACTUALLY angry. But I don't think I'm alone in finding Locke's character being a little too full of himself. He was a fricking box salesman and a toy store clerk. Not yoda :-)

I actually thought the prosthetic was fairly obvious - I pointed out the purple, spotted, unnatural-looking area around the wound to my family and said I bet they're gonna stick him with the needle. Big screen, however.

I thought the purple stuff was a bruise from where he got punched.

Does anyone know where the French woman is?

I actually thought the prosthetic was fairly obvious - I pointed out the purple, spotted, unnatural-looking area around the wound to my family and said I bet they're gonna stick him with the needle.

You mean the bruise? You never been injured before?

I thought the episode was a bit slow (diversimento), but reading this thread makes up for most of it. :p

Hong.

Does anyone know where the French woman is?
Shacked up with Desmond?

http://www.enterstageright.com/blog/gmarchives/cbg.jpg


Don't sweat it I imagine that everyone who posts, "worst episode ever!" type of comment look like the Simpson's comic book guy. I guess they forget is it is a drama with sci-fi elements not just a scifi show. Acceptance is part of the of the grieving process. :)

Chuck

Yeah, I see what you mean. I look exactly like comic book guy.:rolleyes: Of course, he has slept with Edna.:)

Ericglo

Its hard to sympathize with Charlie, cause he's a big wussy for the most part.

Why didn't he tell tell Locke to take a hike, if Locke really wanted some statues, why didn't he grab them from the plane before, as he had ample opportunity anytime he wanted for quite awhile.

Charlie had them hidden and no-one else knew about it but him and then Locke, but the flip side from Lockes point of view was Charlie's actions are starting to get dangerous and effecting others safety, so i could see why he would want to separate the drugs from Charlie wether he was using or not, which i belive he isn't.

I belive Charlie was testing himself to prove to himself he could not only abstain, but do it with the drugs readily available, which is the ultimate test

Again going back to being a wussy, if he would have communicated his position to Claire better, he wouldn't have the trouble he does. Just tell her you were testing yourself to make sure you were as over your addiction as he thought he was, and if she cant accept it, just tell her to screw, women don't like wussies , its a well known fact.

Anyways, i was thinking the same thing as someone posted earlier about him maybe joining the "others", since hes getting closer to being an outcast with his current associates.

And speaking of the "Others", this show goes off in so many directions that don't even make sense, such as Michael's mission was so important, then all of the sudden its like its no big deal anymore, (ahh, just let him go and work it out by himself)? they make first contact with the "others" and you would think you would want to make some kind of camp to defend themselves from them, as the others have clearly demonstrated their capabilities of doing harm ,even killing people, and yet front plane survivors are going about things as business as usual? It just doesn't make sense!

Clouds of smoke, polar bears, others finally met face to face,and none of these people act like they ever want answers? or anything is of life and death importance sometimes Is this how normal people would act in such circumstances? I highly doubt it.

I still like the show and look forward to it, but when i saw we were going to get more Charlie flashbacks, i knew it was mostly going to be a dud of a show and it was.

I forgot to note that "limbus infantium" is an anagram of "Minus nut, IBM fail"...I think it's pretty obvious that the mainframe's going to blow a tape drive now that Desmond's not there. Either that, or the writers are making an apacoliptic comment on IBM's post-Gerstner performance. Probably both, come to think of it. Man, is there any topic these writers don't know cold?!?

I wonder if Locke is somehow "hosting" the nanobots in his body. They help him walk and give him little insights from time to time.Maybe Locke inhaled and Eko didn't. I did like last night's ep, but let's be real; There will be many more back-stories and Eko's will be very hard to top. But if they manage to top it.... :eek:

Maybe Locke inhaled and Eko didn't. I did like last night's ep, but let's be real; There will be many more back-stories and Eko's will be very hard to top. But if they manage to top it.... :eek:

And? And?

And? And?... and then it will set the bar even higher so there will be even more disappointed posts when every other ep does not live up to the new standard ;) :D


ron

Exactamundo!

You mean the bruise? You never been injured before?

I've broken more bones than you have IQ points. ;)

Look back at that and you can see the unnatural (for a bruise) color and texture and the exact perimeter of the raised area.

Its hard to sympathize with Charlie, cause he's a big wussy for the most part.
That was obvious to me when Kate easily shoved him several times to get him away from Claire and the baby. He looked like he had the strength and determination of a six year old.

Maybe Locke inhaled and Eko didn't. I did like last night's ep, but let's be real; There will be many more back-stories and Eko's will be very hard to top. But if they manage to top it.... :eek:

A "Hurley/Psych Ward" backstory has tremendous potential.

BUT, didnt mean to start a abc/religion argument, as far as the show goes i just dont like the whole religious overtone that it seems to be taking to me. It scares me to think the whole island is going to be some sort of heaven/hell thing, the whole darhma project has somethign to do with religion. Not what i am looking forward to.

The producers have said since the very beginning that Stephen King's The Stand is one of their strongest influences.

So really, if religious references bug you? You are probably not going to be a happy camper.

honestly? that was completely worthless...zero development of previous interaction with the Others...useless development of the other characters...what did we learn that wd didn't already know? and now we have to wait 2 weeks for an episode where they tease us with glimpses of the Others?

We learned a lot about Charlie's relationship with his brother -- by all indications, the most important relationship of his personal and professional life, and that his brother pretty much rejected him, not just as we saw before in Australia, but even when he was using.

Charlie's status as an outcast changes things quite a lot.

I think they either need to somehow explain that the show is going to be character driven, and not driven by the mysterys on the island and tone down the pace in all the episodes or keep up the pace with dynamic writing which includes the mystery into every episode which continues to give us pieces of the puzzle. But doing one exciting episode, then one boring useless episode jsut kills momentum in the series.

I think it has been evident from the third or fourth episode of the show that this was a character driven show, and not supposed to be another version of Alias or 24. I disagree with you completely about the pace. The pace is not supposed to be consistent -- it's a roller coaster, with ups and downs, and at any moment, you aren't certain of what you're going to get. It's unsettling, just like the strange things happening on the island.

I am really confused by why people who don't like what the show so clearly is about are sticking around more than 30+ episodes into it. Are you still hoping it will change and become what you want? Because I really don't think that's going to happen. If it were me, I'd find a show that made me happy, rather than continuing to watch (much less think and post) about a show that makes me so obviously miserable most of the time.

Not to mention that if it did become the show you seem to want, it would either have to become convoluted beyond all understanding or just be over in about 5 more episodes.

what did Hurley say when they were by the washing machine? Something about "what crash". Did anyone catch that also? good episode, though..

We learned a lot about Charlie's relationship with his brother -- by all indications, the most important relationship of his personal and professional life, and that his brother pretty much rejected him, not just as we saw before in Australia, but even when he was using.

Charlie's status as an outcast changes things quite a lot.



I think it has been evident from the third or fourth episode of the show that this was a character driven show, and not supposed to be another version of Alias or 24. I disagree with you completely about the pace. The pace is not supposed to be consistent -- it's a roller coaster, with ups and downs, and at any moment, you aren't certain of what you're going to get. It's unsettling, just like the strange things happening on the island.

I am really confused by why people who don't like what the show so clearly is about are sticking around more than 30+ episodes into it. Are you still hoping it will change and become what you want? Because I really don't think that's going to happen. If it were me, I'd find a show that made me happy, rather than continuing to watch (much less think and post) about a show that makes me so obviously miserable most of the time.

Not to mention that if it did become the show you seem to want, it would either have to become convoluted beyond all understanding or just be over in about 5 more episodes.

I think you misunderstood me...I love Lost...I've loved Lost from the first episode and haven't missed a single episode...I'm not a Lost hater...but I do think Season 1 was paced a lot better....and I think it had better writing...I think they just started this season off with such action, it was hard to drop the level of intensity back down...

if Locke really wanted some statues, why didn't he grab them from the plane before, as he had ample opportunity anytime he wanted for quite awhile.
Locke didn't know Ecko and Charlie set it on fire. He probably thought he could get some anytime he wanted until he found out they were all gone.

I think he is going to get Claire high and as AL would say: Hit it. :D

Yeah, I see what you mean. I look exactly like comic book guy.:rolleyes: Of course, he has slept with Edna.:)

Ericglo

Give it time, you are young still. :p Obviously, I made one of my rare posts before I saw that post, I should stick to lurking. One other thing, Edna is hot!

As for Charlie, I think Locke is about ready to become one of the most hated characters. How long has it been since Charlie used? It hasn't been two months. The guy was addicted to heroin. This is not something that is easily overcome. So everyone thinks the guy should be completely normal already? I betcha at some point Charlie will save everyone. He was brave enough to kill Ethan. These people on the island have some of the shortest memories ever. Reach out to the lovable loser don't hate him. He needs a NA sponsor!

At this point I'm just a Lost Lemming or Lost Lackey if you will, willing to let the writers take me anywhere they want. Sure there are things I see every week that I think are goofy or even stupid but the overall entertainment and quality of this show overcomes those few annoying issues so much they really are not worth mentioning. Plus, someone on here points it out around 10 p.m. on Wednesday night so that I don't have to.

Chuck

I've broken more bones than you have IQ points. ;)Honestly, you shouldn't beat yourself up like that when your team loses in the playoffs. :p

/running and ducking

I'm sure all of this has been covered in the 12,000 posts here but just some recent thoughts.

As time goes on, I'm thinking this is more likely to be some sort of elaborate social experiement, especially if the suggestions are correct that the island goings-on aren't "magic" or supernatural. If there's a supernatural cause then anything goes which takes away much of the elegance of a complex story with actual reasoning. Hopefully there's a logic/reasoning behind it all.

Thinking back to the very beginning, if you rule out the supernatural, there's no way that many people would have survived a high-altitude plane breakup and plunge to the ground. There was also the jet engine that was seemingly still running on the beach. My thought is that it was all staged and these groups have somehow been conditioned to remember this common event as an actual happening. The experiment could also entail implanting memories or maybe the brainwashing on the island has actually caused people to confuse connections with island people with happenings from their past lives which we've seen in the backstories.

This explanation could tie in to multiple things that have happened so far: maybe Hurley's co-patient with the numbers was actual a former "experiment" patient who had cracked or new the truth so they had him institutionalized. Maybe the "incident" requiring the button-pressing had to do with people having enough time to figure out what was going or they spread out too much on the island to be observed so they came up with that device to keep them in view. It could also be a simple test a faith/religion: we'll tell you a way to live and give you some substantiation via a film (a clip of which was found in a Bible no less) as opposed to a book, and the implication that bad things will happen if you don't follow along and see what the subjects do.

The Others could be other groups of patients or just stimulus for this group from the most recent "crash."

Just some not-so-random thoughts...who knows.

Any speculation as to why Eko was marking those trees?
Someone asked a few pages ago but I don't recall any further discussion.

My first thought was that his tree marking had something to do with the 'monster' that gobbles up trees whole but can't think of what purpose Eko would have for marking them.


Also, on a different note I was glad that in last nights episode that there were some comments made by characters that they actually DO talk to each other about what they have seen on the island. Even so, they need to make information sharing a priority to help them survive.

that's why the religious stuff seems like such a waste of time. baptising people is just a way to make people guess there is some sort of religious answer, and that would be pretty lame.

unless of course, there are vampires on the island, holy water and crosses always come in handy then. maybe season 4? i'd be ok with that i suppose.

Anyways, i was thinking the same thing as someone posted earlier about him maybe joining the "others", since hes getting closer to being an outcast with his current associates.
Yup, that was me. Sure would shake up the dynamics of the show and increase the possibilities for the future.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And once the 'Others' start crossing back over into the 'Losters", think of how many more back stories they can create for the 'new' characters they've introduced. Hey, this could form the basis of a spin-off. ;) :D

___________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

unless of course, there are vampires on the island, holy water and crosses always come in handy then. maybe season 4? i'd be ok with that i suppose.

That would be awesome of they could get Eliza Dushku or even Sarah Michelle Gellar to fix the vampire problem on the island :>


All kidding and wishful thinking aside this was the only episode I really didn't like. I found myself fast forwarding through parts just didn't care if I missed clues etc...

Only part I liked was the end where Charlie looked like one of "the others".

Any speculation as to why Eko was marking those trees?
Someone asked a few pages ago but I don't recall any further discussion.

My first thought was that his tree marking had something to do with the 'monster' that gobbles up trees whole but can't think of what purpose Eko would have for marking them.

Those were the ones he liked. :p

A "Hurley/Psych Ward" backstory has tremendous potential.
Anyone else notice that Hurley said Libby looked familiar? Isn't she a pschologist? And Hurley was in a mental ward? Potential indeed! ;)

that's why the religious stuff seems like such a waste of time. baptising people is just a way to make people guess there is some sort of religious answer, and that would be pretty lame.
The religious stuff actually fits in quite well with the theme of good vs. evil, regardless of your personal belief toward Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Animism, etc. I'm quite interested to see if the baptisms of Claire and Aaron are going to make any sort of difference in the near future. I'm not expecting it to come up again, but their baptism is just another one of these small details that could always be used as a tie in to something else in a future episode.

is it me, or does ABC always manage to put religion into everything?!!?!?!?!? I dont watch lost to be told what to believe, i think its getting a little too much now.
I don't get the impression that the writters of "Lost" are trying to tell you or anyone else what to believe. They are telling a story about a group of people -- with various beliefs and and backgrounds -- that have been thrown together under terrible circumstances. Given their bizzare surroundings, detached from all the comforts and resources that they are accustomed to in the "real" world, religion seems like a natural answer for all kinds of questions and problems. In fact, the longer they are dettached from the "real" world, the more I would expect religion and superstition to creep into their lives.

As far as the washer/dryer, i dont know how ANYBODY can even remotely think that it was a mistake, they obviously were put there for a reason. If everything was new, and 1 thing was old, maybe, but they obviously went out of their way to make everythign in the hatch look old. They went out, and found a old stereo, a old everything, and found a new washer?? its not like it was their already on the set and they didnt realise it, they built the set from scratch, brought every part, it was put there on purpose to serve a purpose.

I think the line last night about the washing machine being new, was directed at the 99% of the people who didnt realise they were new. Believe it or not, most people dont watch lost in slow motion, so for those normal people who didnt know it was new, that was a hint to them.
You make a complelling argument here, and I wouldn't want to bet against your hypothesis... However, I still think the line was delivered with a little too much tongue-in-cheek to be anything but an inside joke for those of us that have speculated way too much on this subject. I also think that if the writers wanted to make a point about the island being resuplied occasionally, there are less obscure and more compelling ways to do it.

LOST feels like it's being stretched -- much more so than last year. Even last year I didn't think it was as "tight" and refined as I would have liked it to be. This year it's bordering on boring for me at times. Personally, I find some of the back stories very interesting and well-woven. However, some have felt redundent and lengthy and, to be honest, totally unnecessary and (seemingly -- although you never know) not advancing the plot.

Still, it ranks up there as one of my watchable series and I'm certainly going to continue with it. I maintain, however, that the last episode currently ranks last of all the episodes thus far (including last year).

You make a complelling argument here, and I wouldn't want to bet against your hypothesis... However, I still think the line was delivered with a little too much tongue-in-cheek to be anything but an inside joke for those of us that have speculated way too much on this subject. I also think that if the writers wanted to make a point about the island being resuplied occasionally, there are less obscure and more compelling ways to do it.

I think one of the producers saw an opportunity to bring home a new washer and dryer. :D

Any speculation as to why Eko was marking those trees?
Someone asked a few pages ago but I don't recall any further discussion.

My first thought was that his tree marking had something to do with the 'monster' that gobbles up trees whole but can't think of what purpose Eko would have for marking them.




Those were the ones he liked. :p

Or those were the ones he used... :o


One thing I don't think I've seen mentioned is the card game near the beginning of the show. I could swear they were playing with "Dharma" cards.

I dumped the episode off my Tivo so I can't go back and look. I guess I'll have to stop doing that until I've read all the posts here....

One thing I don't think I've seen mentioned is the card game near the beginning of the show. I could swear they were playing with "Dharma" cards.

They were.

I cant remember who was playing cards??

Sawyer and Hurley were playing Blackjack.

The religious stuff actually fits in quite well with the theme of good vs. evil, regardless of your personal belief toward...Animism, etc...

People actually believe in Japanese cartoons??? :D

A lot of discussion has happened about how one episode is a high speed roller coaster, and then there is a slow, character based. We have to remember, they have only been on this island for ~50 days now. If every day was a roller coaster they would all already have died from shear exhaustion if nothing else!

If it wasn't complaining I'd say what kills me is people complain like they think they could actually do a better job themselves. :rolleyes: I guess some people just love to complain.

A

The religious stuff actually fits in quite well with the theme of good vs. evil, regardless of your personal belief toward Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Animism, etc. I'm quite interested to see if the baptisms of Claire and Aaron are going to make any sort of difference in the near future. I'm not expecting it to come up again, but their baptism is just another one of these small details that could always be used as a tie in to something else in a future episode.

that's just it, if the baptism actually does come in handy, in can only mean that there is a religious answer to the mysteries (which IMO would be a creative copout since the "lord works in mysterious ways" and all) if not, it was just a waste of time. IMO, it was just a little gift for all the hardcore christians out there to boost ratings.

I don't want Lost to turn into the band Creed.
:D

Oh, please - give it a rest.

If you're gonna get offended every time somebody's religion is portrayed on TV - there's not gonna be much TV to enjoy. Is it really that hard for you to believe that out of 50 survivors, a couple actually believe in God? Or is it that it just pisses you off?

Clearly, the only people on the island getting religious answers and visions are those that have a strong faith to begin with - Locke's visions and actions aren't religious, Kate's horse wasn't religious, etc.

It's not pandering, it's just real life.

Why do people come here to post how much they hated the show? Why would anyone want to hear about that? I say don't let the screen door hit you on your way out!

Personally I thought it was excellent. I especially liked the dream sequence with Claire, Charlie's Mom and the dove. It was visually stunning. Charlies back story also helped to explain why he would be so adamant about trying to 'save' Aaron.

Did anyone notice the song that was playing when Charlie first entered his apartment was the same Kinks song he was singing to Jin a couple of episodes back.

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that Charlie seems to be the one who is starting to become 'sick' from the island. It will be interesting to see where it leads.

I also really like the spiritual story lines. I was however surprised that after Claire asked Eko if he thought that Aaron needed baptising and he went on to tell the story of when John the Baptist baptised Jesus and that told him something - that he had cleansed him of all his sins, Eko went on to baptise Aaron. What sin does a baby need to be cleansed of?

Eko has the passage wrong. Jesus was not washed of sin. He had none.

The Baptism of Jesus

13Then Jesus went from Galilee to the Jordan River to be baptized by John. 14But John didn't want to baptize him. "I am the one who needs to be baptized by you," he said, "so why are you coming to me?"
15But Jesus said, "It must be done, because we must do everything that is right.[6] " So then John baptized him.
16After his baptism, as Jesus came up out of the water, the heavens were opened and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and settling on him. 17And a voice from heaven said, "This is my beloved Son, and I am fully pleased with him."

For Catholics, the Sacrament of Baptism is the first step in a lifelong journey of commitment and discipleship. Whether we are baptized as infants or adults, Baptism is the Church's way of celebrating and enacting the embrace of God.

----------

Water baptism for the Christian symbolises and appropriates our death, burial and resurrection with Christ. It means identification with Christ.

"Therefore we were buried with him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." (Romans 6:4).

Oh, please - give it a rest.

If you're gonna get offended every time somebody's religion is portrayed on TV - there's not gonna be much TV to enjoy. Is it really that hard for you to believe that out of 50 survivors, a couple actually believe in God? Or is it that it just pisses you off?

Clearly, the only people on the island getting religious answers and visions are those that have a strong faith to begin with - Locke's visions and actions aren't religious, Kate's horse wasn't religious, etc.

It's not pandering, it's just real life.

THANK YOU cPanther95. The expression "Good Lord!" comes to mind...

Since Charlie is from England he went the the Anglican church and this is what they say about Baptism:

http://www.cofe.anglican.org/lifeevents/baptismconfirm/sectionb.html

I think it's more likely that Charlie is Irish Catholic.

And speaking of the "Others", this show goes off in so many directions that don't even make sense, such as Michael's mission was so important, then all of the sudden its like its no big deal anymore, (ahh, just let him go and work it out by himself)?

"Zeke" told Jack that there was no chance Michael would ever find them, so at this point Jack and the others have to assume that Michael's just wandering around the island pointlessly and will eventually make his way back.

"Zeke" told Jack that there was no chance Michael would ever find them, so at this point Jack and the others have to assume that Michael's just wandering around the island pointlessly and will eventually make his way back.

I'm not sure about pointlessly. Locke said Michael was heading due north, like someone who knew exactly where he was going.

I personally don't think Michael was imagining a conversation with Walt on the PC. I thing Walt told him exactly where he was, and that he should come alone. I also think Michael knows more about the PC than he let on, when he threated to shoot it. It was almost as if he knew that destroying it wouldn't be a big deal.

Don't sweat it I imagine that everyone who posts, "worst episode ever!" type of comment look like the Simpson's comic book guy. I guess they forget is it is a drama with sci-fi elements not just a scifi show. Acceptance is part of the of the grieving process. :)

Chuck

must be the same guys who buy Penthouse for the articles :)

heh it was a plane

http://sier_element.home.comcast.net/charlie_plane.gif

http://sier_element.home.comcast.net/charlie_plane.gif

And speaking of the "Others", this show goes off in so many directions that don't even make sense, such as Michael's mission was so important, then all of the sudden its like its no big deal anymore, (ahh, just let him go and work it out by himself)? they make first contact with the "others" and you would think you would want to make some kind of camp to defend themselves from them, as the others have clearly demonstrated their capabilities of doing harm ,even killing people, and yet front plane survivors are going about things as business as usual? It just doesn't make sense!



I thought the talk of Michael died down, is because Jack and AL are planning on building an army. Not sure who else knows the plan, but in the coming attractions, Jack confronts Locke about the missing weapons, so we are getting near the point where they are ready to go find Michael and Walt again

Looks like the drug prop plane.

No one responded to that question of why Hurley, when in the room washing clothes with Libby, for a second acted as if he didnt know who she was, had no recollection of a plane (when she mentioned him stepping on her foot), and then that went away when he turned back around and said "that's awesome"...

In that "angel/dove" dream of Charlies, that's the drug plane "crashing" in the background... crazy!

Also, did anyone notice, when Charlie swam out to rescue the baby crib, he brings it out of the water and just SLAMS it down into the sand, with the baby supposedly in it? LOL i was laughing when I saw that, I mean who sets that thing down like you're carrying a huge tree log or something when there's a baby in it? hehe

The tree-markign thing has gotta be important somehow... I thought at first he was looking at dead or dying trees to cut/knock them down so that, in case of a fire near the camp, the dead trees that would light up more easily would be already gone. But I think there's something else behind it.

Also in the angel/dove scene, when the dove first flies down you hear kind of a pop or sound when the "shadow dove" separates from the white dove, anyone else notice that?

I mean who sets that thing down like you're carrying a huge tree log or something when there's a baby in it? hehe

Maybe someone who is exhausted from swimming in the ocean and rescuing it?

The tree-markign thing has gotta be important somehow... I thought at first he was looking at dead or dying trees to cut/knock them down so that, in case of a fire near the camp, the dead trees that would light up more easily would be already gone. But I think there's something else behind it.

I agree with an earlier poster who supposed it may be the beginnings of construction of a church.

Also in the angel/dove scene, when the dove first flies down you hear kind of a pop or sound when the "shadow dove" separates from the white dove, anyone else notice that?

When I freeze-framed it I only saw one dove. The dark dove is the white dove's shadow cast on what appears to be a painted screen backdrop of the jungle made to enhance the surrealism of the scene. I'll have to go back and listen for the pop you hear.

You know, for us poor lowly folks that have to watch Lost in SD, I don't think the plane was visible at all - at least I could see it on the link.

I've noticed that ABC has been doing a new 4:3 treatment to Lost for SD broadcast, I'll call it "Chop n'go" or "nopan and noscan." I think they're just chopping of the left and right of the picture, without recomposing it to show the most important parts of the image.

For example, prior to the second half of season 2, the opening credits were visible on the screen. All new episodes that have aired in January 06, however, have most of the credits cut in hald - you only see the right or left half of the names, depending on what side of the screen you're looking at. Becuase of this, the airplane was completely off screen on our set.

Fortuneately we have an HD capable set (no built-in tuner, though) and should be getting some HD tuning capability in the next few weeks :)

In the opening dream sequence on the beach, Charlie has his fingers bandaged with F A T E on the bandages. When he starts looking for Aaron in the piano, the bandages are gone.

Looks like the drug prop plane.
No, the plane in that image above is much larger with the wing below the fuselage. The drug plane had the wing above the fuselage and was much smaller.

It may be symbolizing the drug plane given that it was Charlie's vision, but it's not the same plane.

heh it was a plane

http://sier_element.home.comcast.net/charlie_plane.gif

http://sier_element.home.comcast.net/charlie_plane.gif

Wow! Great post!

Hmmm, a thought just occured to me (surprise! :D). What did Kate's little model plane look like? That was a long way back now, but didn't it look like that one?


ron

In the opening dream sequence on the beach, Charlie has his fingers bandaged with F A T E on the bandages. When he starts looking for Aaron in the piano, the bandages are gone.

I caught that too. Wonder just when they disappeared? I remember discussing it WAY back in this thread.

Eko has the passage wrong. Jesus was not washed of sin. He had none.

You're right but I believe that is the purpose of baptism for us. Jesus never sinned but he got baptised anyway I believe as an example for us.

If you study it out, it's actually the blood of the sacrifice that cleanses sin and in the waters of baptism is when you come in contact, through faith, with that blood.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

And as far as 'original sin' goes. I couldn't find it in my bible but I did find this.

Exodus 20:1 And God spoke all these words:

2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

3 "You shall have no other gods before [a] me.

4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.


Plus this is old testament.


heh it was a plane


The best part is if you're not watching in HD you can't see the plane. :p

Since Charlie is from England he went the the Anglican church and this is what they say about Baptism:

http://www.cofe.anglican.org/lifeevents/baptismconfirm/sectionb.html

Uh, the fact that Charlie is from England does not automatically mean he's Anglican. There are about 4 million Catholics in England and Wales.

In The Moth, we get every indication that he is, indeed, Catholic. It was definitely a Catholic church (there were nuns, among other things). And I'd have to check my DVD, but didn't we actually see him in confession in that episode?

Charlie also told Eko that he was an altar boy, and I think that he might have mentioned he was Anglican rather than Catholic, if that were the case.

I don't think he's Irish, though. He definitely wasn't raised there, given the accents we've heard in the flashbacks thus far. And he wasn't living there when we see him in the UK -- that was London.

And as far as 'original sin' goes. I couldn't find it in my bible but I did find this.


Jews don't believe in original sin, so I wouldn't take anything in the OT as evidence for its existence. Jews believe redemption is open to all through reconciliation with God, in which the sinner sincerely repents and pledges to rectify his sinful ways and lead a righteous life.

Original sin is purely a Christian concept based on Paul's statement, "Therefore just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned" (Romans 5:12). The doctrine was fully developed by Augustine into the belief that we are all born sinful and only through accepting Jesus as savior can those sins be redeemed.

Hmmm, a thought just occured to me (surprise! :D). What did Kate's little model plane look like? That was a long way back now, but didn't it look like that one?


ron
Yes, the plane in Charlie's vision does look just like Kate's plane.

Yes, the plane in Charlie's vision does look just like Kate's plane.That's what I thought. A cosmic coincidence? Or just a recycling of props? ;)


ron

That's what I thought. A cosmic coincidence? Or just a recycling of props? ;)


ron
Who knows..? That's one of my minor pet peeves with this show, what's a detail to pay attention to, and what isn't? Without having a perfect continuity flow and perfect production values things are bound to slip through inadvertently and what may seem like important "details" are really nothing, yet, OTOH one could miss an important "detail" because we don't know what is or isn't intentional.

No big deal, it just means I've gotten used to being a little wary of what I see and what importance is attached to it.

It would be nice if everything was perfect to the nth degree but I realize that it's not possible.

It's probably the Dharma supply plane coming in with a fresh load of food and washer/dryers....


ron

It's probably the Dharma supply plane coming in with a fresh load of food and washer/dryers....ron

I think you've nailed it! :D :D :D

Oh, please - give it a rest.

If you're gonna get offended every time somebody's religion is portrayed on TV - there's not gonna be much TV to enjoy. Is it really that hard for you to believe that out of 50 survivors, a couple actually believe in God? Or is it that it just pisses you off?

You may want to reread the thought process there, you're going off on tangents. I'm not offended by religion on tv (i was actually a big fan of book of daniel. :D) But after an overdose of the stuff the other night, I do worry that the show could become some sort of overhyped refuge for religious people they way the passion of christ, the band creed, or the left behind series have been.

Like I said, if you're gonna throw this much religion in there, there either must be a religious answer (in which case I'd be dissapointed) or they're just killing time and pandering as a distraction from the real mysteries on the island.

It's an opinion, I'm not pissed, just disappointed.

You may want to reread the thought process there, you're going off on tangents. I'm not offended by religion on tv (i was actually a big fan of book of daniel. :D) But after an overdose of the stuff the other night, I do worry that the show could become some sort of overhyped refuge for religious people they way the passion of christ, the band creed, or the left behind series have been.

Like I said, if you're gonna throw this much religion in there, there either must be a religious answer (in which case I'd be dissapointed) or they're just killing time and pandering as a distraction from the real mysteries on the island.

It's an opinion, I'm not pissed, just disappointed.

I think everyone is overthinking this...we have a group of diverse people who are going to react to things in ways that fit their worldview. The Men of Science will look to the rational, Men of Faith to the spiritual, whether it be Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, etc. Jack's going to look for a scientific explanation, Locke/Eko might look to God.

To not show the different reactions would be unrealistic. The contrast between the two reactions is likely to be a theme throughout the show, so we may as well get used to it.

In the opening dream sequence on the beach, Charlie has his fingers bandaged with F A T E on the bandages. When he starts looking for Aaron in the piano, the bandages are gone.

Charlie was looking for Aaron in the piano in his dream

I think everyone is overthinking this...we have a group of diverse people who are going to react to things in ways that fit their worldview. The Men of Science will look to the rational, Men of Faith to the spiritual, whether it be Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, etc. Jack's going to look for a scientific explanation, Locke/Eko might look to God.

that could be what happens. Wednesday seemed particularly preachy to me though. I don't think that I'd want a whole islam episode or buddhism episode either. I'd rather just see more polar bears and monsters if they're going to make another 'filler' episode. :D

No, the plane in that image above is much larger with the wing below the fuselage. The drug plane had the wing above the fuselage and was much smaller.

It may be symbolizing the drug plane given that it was Charlie's vision, but it's not the same plane.


I think it is the same plane - compare the gif above with these screen caps from season 1:

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=358&pos=75

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=358&pos=403

Twin tail, wing below fuselage.

I think it is the same plane - compare the gif above with these screen caps from season 1:

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=358&pos=75

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=358&pos=403

Twin tail, wing below fuselage.

They look different to me - the first one appears to have a longer fuselage than the second one, which appears more compact.

A show that is steeped in religious and political undercurrents and metaphors is the show that follows Lost, Invasion. In fact much of it is purposely put in the show according to the creators.

I don't see that in Lost. I don't think there are really any overt religious posturings, it's just pretty normal stuff.

I think it is the same plane - compare the gif above with these screen caps from season 1:

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=358&pos=75

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=358&pos=403

Twin tail, wing below fuselage.
I think you're right, for some reason I had it my head that the drug plane was smaller, and a Piper Cub-like plane was what was stuck in my head.

The plane makes perfect sense now in Charlie's dream.

In the opening dream sequence on the beach, Charlie has his fingers bandaged with F A T E on the bandages. When he starts looking for Aaron in the piano, the bandages are gone.

I also was looking carefully when Charlie was lighting the fire and I didn't see the FATE bandages on.

I don't recall if they have still been on constantly in his other "non dream" appearances.