I don't see that in Lost. I don't think there are really any overt religious posturings, it's just pretty normal stuff.

I didn't either until last week. It had a healthy dose of religion before, but went a bit overboard on wednesday. But the religion was only a part of the disaster of wednesday's show. Maybe if it was a decent episode, it wouldn't have been so annoying. The whole show was just sloppy.

Eko's past episode really got me charged up for this season, then charlie's sleepwalking, kidnapping, attempted baptising, just threw the whole season out of whack.

I hope they get back on track in two weeks.

No one responded to that question of why Hurley, when in the room washing clothes with Libby, for a second acted as if he didnt know who she was, had no recollection of a plane (when she mentioned him stepping on her foot), and then that went away when he turned back around and said "that's awesome"...



I was wondering about it, it seemed rather odd. If it was supposed to be played as a joke, like he simply was supposed to be flabbergasted that he was actually there washing clothes next to his dream girl, then I didn't laugh. To me it came across more like he was really losing his mind there for a sec. Perhaps this and the Charlie freak out are symptoms of an upcoming disease or something.

Regarding the Libby/Hurley/washing machine incident, I don't recall anyone mentioning what seemed very obvious to me, when Hurley asked "Don't I know you from somewhere", Libby completely sidestepped answering the question, as if she is definitely hiding something. That's the way I saw it anyway..

Regarding the Libby/Hurley/washing machine incident, I don't recall anyone mentioning what seemed very obvious to me, when Hurley asked "Don't I know you from somewhere", Libby completely sidestepped answering the question, as if she is definitely hiding something. That's the way I saw it anyway..

Definitely obvious to me also. She sort of sidestepped the question by mentioning that he had stepped on her foot. Hurley definitely meant that he knew her from somewhere else (sanitarium?), and I believe she definitely knew HIM from somewhere else - he's pretty much unforgettable, after all. But we'll have to wait for another back-story.

Definitely obvious to me also. She sort of sidestepped the question by mentioning that he had stepped on her foot. Hurley definitely meant that he knew her from somewhere else (sanitarium?), and I believe she definitely knew HIM from somewhere else - he's pretty much unforgettable, after all. But we'll have to wait for another back-story.

I like the idea of her stalking him to get her hands on that money.

Somehow, I don't think Hurley would complain.

Definitely obvious to me also. She sort of sidestepped the question by mentioning that he had stepped on her foot. Hurley definitely meant that he knew her from somewhere else (sanitarium?), and I believe she definitely knew HIM from somewhere else - he's pretty much unforgettable, after all. But we'll have to wait for another back-story.

I'm not exactly an experienced international traveller, so I wouldn't know, but how much seat swapping goes on on these flights, anyways?

For Hurley to step on her foot while boarding, his seat would have to be located behind hers on the plane. How, then, does he end up with the middies, and her with the tailies? I think she totally dodged his question and lied about getting trampled.

What kind of washer/dryer did they have? Any idea when they were made?

No, I seem to remember Hurley boarding towards the rear and lumbering sweatily forward to his seat.
As for the Drug Plane it was definitely a low wing twin tailed plane, it is the one in the dream.

What kind of washer/dryer did they have? Any idea when they were made?

Oh no you didn't.

I think it is the same plane - compare the gif above with these screen caps from season 1:

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=358&pos=75

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=358&pos=403

Twin tail, wing below fuselage.

I agree - same plane. The shape of the tail is very distinctive (rounded).

It also occurred to me that someone who wasn't watching in HD may not have seen it because it appeared to be outside the 4:3 frame. My wife said that her coworkers didn't see it - and none of them have HD...

What kind of washer/dryer did they have? Any idea when they were made?
Back up to this post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6232093&&#post6232093

In the opening dream sequence on the beach, Charlie has his fingers bandaged with F A T E on the bandages. When he starts looking for Aaron in the piano, the bandages are gone.
I noticed that too, and at first thought someone else had started the fire. (The long-ish fingers did look like Charlie's, however...)

~Dan

No, I seem to remember Hurley boarding towards the rear and lumbering sweatily forward to his seat.
As for the Drug Plane it was definitely a low wing twin tailed plane, it is the one in the dream.

He entered from the front, and lumbered sweatily back towards his seat. He saw Walt reading his comic book and smiled at him as he walked past. He was facing Walt, who was in his seat, so Hurley was walking from front to back. It's possible, though, that he stepped on Libby's foot while she was standing in the aisle, not in or near her seat. Personally, I think she made it up to make him *think* she was on the plane and that's where he "remembers" her from.

Cant anyone look this up?

Oh no you didn't.


lmao

this episode shoulda been called "locke is an ass"
i hope charlie joins "the others", all hail hooded charlie.

I noticed that too, and at first thought someone else had started the fire. (The long-ish fingers did look like Charlie's, however...)

~Dan

Not to mention the Driveshaft ring. ;)

Not to mention the Driveshaft ring. ;)
More like "suckshaft"! :D

~Dan

Not to mention the Driveshaft ring. ;)

My thought exactly. There was no mistaking who the firestarter was given the amount of attention that sequence gave to the ring.

I think it is the same plane - compare the gif above with these screen caps from season 1:

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=358&pos=75

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=358&pos=403

Twin tail, wing below fuselage.
It's probably the drug plane, but my first thought when I looked at a replay was that it was a WWII-era plane like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-25_Mitchell

You may want to reread the thought process there, you're going off on tangents. I'm not offended by religion on tv (i was actually a big fan of book of daniel. :D) But after an overdose of the stuff the other night, I do worry that the show could become some sort of overhyped refuge for religious people they way the passion of christ, the band creed, or the left behind series have been.

Like I said, if you're gonna throw this much religion in there, there either must be a religious answer (in which case I'd be dissapointed) or they're just killing time and pandering as a distraction from the real mysteries on the island.

It's an opinion, I'm not pissed, just disappointed.
So basically you're disappointed when the Christian religion is show in a respectful way, as on Lost, but when it is mocked and shown in an offensive a way, as in "Book of Daniel," then you're all for it.

So basically you're disappointed when the Christian religion is show in a respectful way, as on Lost, but when it is mocked and shown in an offensive a way, as in "Book of Daniel," then you're all for it.

No, Book of daniel showed christianity in a respectful way. In fact I thought it was a nice way to show how christianity can mesh with modern issues in America.

I'm dissapointed when a show like Lost has too much religion in it, cause it makes it even more unbelievable. A cloud of nanoparticles I can deal with, but baptizing babies to protect them from evil? That's just silly.

You know, for us poor lowly folks that have to watch Lost in SD, I don't think the plane was visible at all - at least I could see it on the link.
I watch in SD every week because my computer's processor can't quite keep up with the HD card I installed. I can't recall if I saw the plane or not (definitely saw the dove), but so far I've been able to pretty much see all visual anomalies (Dharma-brand on shark, Eko's smoke images,..etc.,) in SD. And that is a great screen-capture of the beach scene.

PS: What's wrong with protecting children from evil? My child wasn't baptized as an infant, but people do it all the time. Maybe Eko sprinkled some Nano-repellent on them, anyways.

I'm dissapointed when a show like Lost has too much religion in it, cause it makes it even more unbelievable. A cloud of nanoparticles I can deal with, but baptizing babies to protect them from evil? That's just silly.
Why is it more unbelieveable? As to your second comment :confused: im not sure how you could make a more ridiculus comment. Because we all see clouds of "nanoparticles" every day. :rolleyes: Why do people on here seem to have problems with TV characters having religous beliefs. Most of the world does. It defines why some people/characters act the way they do. Nobody told you that you have to believe in god to watch the show. If it bothers you so much watch something else.

PS: What's wrong with protecting children from evil? My child wasn't baptized as an infant, but people do it all the time..

People do all sorts of weird things in the name of religion, it doesn't make them sensible. I just find baptism particularly annoying. Of course, it could be because when my niece died about 10 years ago, and some family members were saying how terrible it was that she wouldn't go to heaven because it happened before she was baptized. To this day people in my family aren't speaking to each other over it.

I was baptized, still a little bothered by it, since I had no say in what religion (if any) I was going to be brought up in. Now that I'm a new father, I would never do such a thing to my child.

Of course, it could be because when my niece died about 10 years ago, and some family members were saying how terrible it was that she wouldn't go to heaven because it happened before she was baptized.Baptism isn't weird, just that particular thought process. Forgive me for being presumptious, but I'd say your niece is in good hands. Now some would ask; Then why baptize children? Different reasons and belief systems. Some indeed feel it's necessary to protect their offspring, while others do not. I don't think the show has gone overboard (yet). Let's just see how it plays out.

Baptism isn't weird, just that particular thought process. Forgive me for being presumptious, but I'd say your niece is in good hands. Now some would ask; Then why baptize children? Different reasons and belief systems. Some indeed feel it's necessary to protect their offspring, while others do not. I don't think the show has gone overboard (yet). Let's just see how it plays out.
Baptism is a ritual...a rite. I have only attended one baptism as an adult, when my nephew was baptised (I'm his godfather.) The ceremony was pretty heavily focused on those standing up for him (me and his godmother), his parents, and all the other adults in the room. We were all challenged to love him, watch out for him, and help guide him toward adulthood. There was no overriding sense of "by doing this we're ensuring his place in heaven" stuff.

As for Lost...Charlie is either losing his mind, or the island is seriously messing with him. I think his behavior spooked Claire to seek out Ecko.

I just want to say, BSG was also more of a filler episode this week, but they did it so well, that it didn't seem like it. It was so well written that it actually added information instead of just reciting history. Incredible episode.

BSG with 47,xxx+ folks and (in universe) weeks between episodes has a whole lot more opportunity for side-shows that explore non-main-story-arc topics than Lost with ~75 inhabitants and 40 days per season.

v/r,
C-F

What is BSG? What does it have to do with LOST?

BattleStar Galactica. Nothing - besides being the "other" breakout serial drama. :)

v/r,
C-F

BSG is terrific. I have friends that never watch SciFi that are watching this show. It's a crossover hit.

I think it's a fair comparison as these are two outstanding serialized dramas. These are actually my two favorite shows on tv.

I agree both were "filler" episodes this week that didn't expand much on the main or most interesting story arc. The BSG filler was better than the Lost filler this time.

I'm not complaining as I think shows need to do this for pacing and it rounds out the character depth. Both shows just had a change of pace this week.

I used to think:
"IMHO Lost referes to the various characters moral and mental condition.
ie Jack overruled Dad, did surgury and has marital problems.
Locke is locked (tee hee) into a boring existance after the rebuff from his Dad.
Hurley has found that money doesn't buy happiness.
Kate seems to have lost her moral compass.
Charlie and drugs
Claire and motherhood.
Sayid and love.
ect ect"

but now after reading all these posts I think the title refers to US!

BSG with 47,xxx+ folks and (in universe) weeks between episodes has a whole lot more opportunity for side-shows that explore non-main-story-arc topics than Lost with ~75 inhabitants and 40 days per season.

v/r,
C-F

I seriously don't see your point....we only see what 10-15 of the people's backstory on Lost? Not the 50 or so on the island...I actually think it might be refreshing to see the island from the other side....from the side of the non-vital characters...at least it would be something new....

Oh no...."The Other, Other 48 Days" & "The Other, Other, Other 48 Days" ;)

Oh no...."The Other, Other 48 Days" & "The Other, Other, Other 48 Days" ;)

lol!

it would work!

There's the rub.

If you read the comments from the producers, the have believed from the beginning that this is a character driven story. Their premise was to place a limited number of people on the island, then "fill up" the time with a blend of backstories and a slow unveiling of the mysteries of the island.

Something unusual happened: the show became a monster hit for ABC. I have no doubt the writers are reading forums like this one and realizing that the tolerance for backstories only goes so far. Thing is, if they reveal all the island mysteries, their series is gone.

I doubt this would happen, but if it were possible to commit to a set number of years story arch like what was done in Babylon 5, I think they would be able to sustain interest for the entire time. Unfortunately, what is right creatively and satisfying for fans of the show doesn't necessarily coincide with the needs of running a network. They provide entertainment so they can sell advertising. There isn't anything morally wrong in that. That is how they make money.

Unfortunately, that means that once a show is a hit, and the network can command a high price for commercial time, they will want to sustain that as long as possible.

So far, I think that the writers have done a pretty good job of balancing the backstories with the island mystery, with a few exceptions. For me, and me alone, I am only interested in backstories of characters I like, or stories that help fill in the blanks about why a character is motivated to act in a certain way.

I guess that is why I didn't particularly care for this last episode with Charlie. We already knew from previous episodes how he had gotten hooked, and even what had eventually become of Liam when he cleaned up his act. So, maybe I missed something, but I didn't see where it moved anything forward.

Now, a story on how Locke lost the use of his legs, or why Hugo was in a mental institution will have my full attention.

Just my opinion. I like both shows. I really did not see the BSG episode as filler, even though it did not advance the search, the defense, the plan, or the machinations. I saw it as an entry into the politics of economics; evidently they are not going to go there, although I do not personally listen to the podcasts.My point was mainly that BSG as a target explores a whole society and issues related to government, politics, warfare, religion, economics, relationships, etc. It also operates on an event based format with potentially weeks in between episodes, rather than a time based format. Within that there are many more opportunities to explore relationships that involve side characters in emotionally dramatic backgrounds that flesh out other aspects of the society and still provide a method to explore contemporary topics in a detached manner. And they are still more 'on target' than LOST can be with the intricacies of how they crack coconuts.

LOST is mostly about the mystery of the island and the interconnected world that they live in with a limited pool of characters and an expanded timescale where each episode is usually ~2 days and sequential.

If LOST created a filler show about:Jack warning folks not to go cliff diving.
Biff and his friends go about it.
Some bit about a love triangle in there.
How they place themselves in a [precarious posistion of choice].
Later extract themselves with a bit of help.
And Jack bandages them up.Then most of the SLO-MO watchers would be looking in vain for Dharma shaped blood spatter or anachronistic bikini designs. Most of the religion/anti-religion/good/bad/ugly watchers would not see the evolution or intelligent design of their storyline. Most of the interconnected-lives backstory watchers would be wondering how Biff and his "Ain't Skeered" buddies fit in. But mostly the cry would be "why -- this episode did not advance the story or reveal a secret or provide details on the AnaJack Army's training program", etc.

v/r,
C-F

When Aaron gets a backstory, we'll know the writers are running out of ideas. :)

BattleStar Galactica. Nothing - besides being the "other" breakout serial drama. :)

v/r,
C-F

Look. I'm a BSG fan, too. But I'd really appreciate reading the Lost thread without so much as a hint about the newest BSG (or oldest, too) episode. I recorded it last night and plan to watch it later today. I don't need spoilers about BSG floating through my Lost thread. I purposely avoid the BGS thread until I see the show.

Thanks for your cooperation. :)

Noted. I did re-examine all of the recent posts here and did not see anything to tag. If there is something specific, PM me and I will fix it.

v/r,
C-F

Noted. I did re-examine all of the recent posts here and did not see anything to tag. If there is something specific, PM me and I will fix it.

v/r,
C-F

Sorry, didn't mean to jump on you specifically. It was at the point of reading your post that I did quote, that I became aware I was getting more information about the BSG episode than I wanted. Prior posts alluded to "slow episode", "filler", etc. I was fearing more was to come that would diminish my enjoyment. Just wanted to put a stop to it then and there. Nothing more. Thanks. :)

This part is conceivably spoilage,
I really did not see the BSG episode as filler, even though it did not advance the search, the defense, the plan, or the machinations. I saw it as an entry into the politics of economics; evidently they are not going to go there, although I do not personally listen to the podcasts.

Done. Thanks.

v/r,
C-F

...and even what had eventually become of Liam when he cleaned up his act...

I can't remember what DID become of Liam from past episodes. Please refresh my memory.

Don't worry, I'm also a big BSG fan - if I see any spoilers, I'll tag them. Just don't watch SciFi until you see the episode becasue they show scenes from Apollo's funeral a number of times.

IIRC, he cleaned his act up with wife and daughter in Australia, provided purpose for Charlie to be in the country, and rejected Charlie's attempt to get the 'band back together', who was no longer maintaining his habit.

That was harsh CPanther95. :)

v/r,
C-F

I seriously don't see your point....we only see what 10-15 of the people's backstory on Lost? Not the 50 or so on the island...I actually think it might be refreshing to see the island from the other side....from the side of the non-vital characters...at least it would be something new....

I agree, both BSG and Lost could really use some more characters. I sometimes wonder if the other people on the island are just pets. I guess it all comes down to money. Let someone open their mouth and it will cost you a ton of money. I thought the whole other side of the island arc was great. It would just create more drama and interest with thirty main characters as opposed to ten. Of course, they are still doing ok so far.:) In all honesty though, BSG is much worse. I could definitely enjoy removing Sharon, Cally, and Baltar for ten fresh new faces.

When Aaron gets a backstory, we'll know the writers are running out of ideas. :)

Haven't they already done that with "Look Who's Talking"?:)


Ericglo

I can't remember what DID become of Liam from past episodes. Please refresh my memory.

When Charlie visited him, he was the perfect family man...not interested in getting back into a Driveshaft comback, and concerned that Charlie was still hooked.

I think it's a fair comparison as these are two outstanding serialized dramas. These are actually my two favorite shows on tv.

I agree both were "filler" episodes this week that didn't expand much on the main or most interesting story arc. The BSG filler was better than the Lost filler this time.

I'm not complaining as I think shows need to do this for pacing and it rounds out the character depth. Both shows just had a change of pace this week.

Hehe, I was laughing with my friend about how Apollo and Charlie were both worried about women and children they shouldn't have been as concerned about as they were. It was like deja vu all over again.

Chuck

Watching the SAG red carpet show. Seems all the actors received pay raises doubling their salary. Sounds like a win-win situation all-around and personally I think they all deserve it. Congratulations, cast of LOST, and thanks for entertaining me these last 2 years!

SAG award to "LOST" for 'Outstanding Performance by an Ensemble in a Drama Series'. Again, congratulations! Let's hear it!

I heard pay raise was to $80,000 an episode.

SAG award to "LOST" for best ensemble cast in a dramatic series. Again, congratulations! Let's hear it!

Is the award for assembling the best ensemble cast (which doesn't make sense), or is it for the best performance by an ensemble cast? :confused:

Is the award for assembling the best ensemble cast (which doesn't make sense), or is it for the best performance by an ensemble cast? :confused:

Technically it's for 'Outstanding Performance by an Ensemble in a Drama Series'.

^^^ Oh, it makes sense. A well deserved award, I might add.

I heard pay raise was to $80,000 an episode.Yeah, let's get that syndication money!

80grand , thats a far cry from what the FRIENDS cast was makin, a cool million a epi. But i guess if LOST lasts 10 years, maybe they will be there aswell. Also alot more of them then the 6 in friends. Still, a nice pay raise.
wg

Watching the SAG red carpet show. Seems all the actors received pay raises doubling their salary. Sounds like a win-win situation all-around and personally I think they all deserve it. Congratulations, cast of LOST, and thanks for entertaining me these last 2 years!


The caveat was that they got the pay increase with no guaranteed contracts for further seasons. So they are all still at risk of being killed of at any time, but at least they are making more bank.

Also alot more of them then the 6 in friends.

That's the key, there's so many of them. Also, sometimes all you need to do to earn your 80K is to walk across the beach and wave to someone.

But i guess if LOST lasts 10 years, maybe they will be there aswell.I don't think they can keep up the suspense for 10 years. I only give it 1 or 2 more seasons before it gets pathetic like Alias. Wow, I just called one of my all-time favorites pathetic.

Didn't the producers say they had no intention of extending the show past four or five years? I hope so, and have that final, answer all episode in the can, just in case!

Did you see where LOST ranked with NIELSEN TV Ratings for week ending Sunday, January 22? 11th with 12,457,000 households watching. Wasn't that the great Eko epi?

Unsure how Nielson works, but I think Eko's backstory was almost 3 weeks ago(?). Funny thing; I don't know anyone who knows anyone with one of those friggin' ratings boxes.

I agree, both BSG and Lost could really use some more characters.

Wow, and I disagree completely with regard to both shows. They both have plenty large casts. BSG, in particularly, has really done an excellent job fleshing out its minor characters and giving them unique qualities and resonance. I have no problem when one of them is killed for a purpose, but just wholesale replacing them for the sake of bringing in new people? I would be horrified, but I'm confident that they won't do that.

I think the problem is that some people don't see either of these for what they are -- character driven shows. A perfect example is calling any episode that deals primarily with character development "filler." To me, it's the exact opposite. Episodes focused mostly on moving the plot forward are much less interesting to me than character-focused ones.

I think the problem is that some people don't see either of these for what they are -- character driven shows. A perfect example is calling any episode that deals primarily with character development "filler." To me, it's the exact opposite. Episodes focused mostly on moving the plot forward are much less interesting to me than character-focused ones.

If BSG wasn't in a Sci-Fi setting I wouldn't give it a 2nd look. The same goes for lost, if something freaky and supernatural wasn't happening on this island I'd rather watch a rerun of Charmed.

Unsure how Nielson works, but I think Eko's backstory was almost 3 weeks ago(?). Funny thing; I don't know anyone who knows anyone with one of those friggin' ratings boxes.
I don't know anyone with one either - or the written diaries, either. Of course, almost everyone I know works in TV, so they can't participate. I'm actually glad my parents can't take part. I don't like any of the shows they like.

White,
I have no problem with character development. Lost has the money, ratings and resources to expand the cast. There are more people in the camp. They could be used to both flesh out the main characters and become major characters in their own right. Imagine having ten other people in the camp talking about their thoughts on their situation. Maybe some are thinking that "The Others" aren't so bad. Some who think Jack is bad leader and Locke should be the guy. What some might think of Anna? Some might hate her for what she did and some may have been tired of Shannon, so good riddance. You get the idea. This reminds me of my fraternity in college. There was 100 people in the fraternity with various clicks. Lost follows the lives of one or two clicks. I still like the show, but would love to see a show with a large complete ensemble cast. Of course, if Lost only goes four years, then the story arc should be good for that time frame.

Ericglo

That's the key, there's so many of them. Also, sometimes all you need to do to earn your 80K is to walk across the beach and wave to someone.

Actually, I wonder how that works. Do they get paid for the ep, up to $80k now I see, whether they actually appear in the episode or not? For instance, if Kate doesn't appear at all this week, does she still get to haul in that 80 large? What if she only has 1 line, or no lines but waving as CP postulated...? If that's the case, Sayid has been positively stealing his dough this year! :eek:

And, if they get paid regardless, that would certainly be an incentive not to expand the cast.

Unsure how Nielson works, but I think Eko's backstory was almost 3 weeks ago(?). Funny thing; I don't know anyone who knows anyone with one of those friggin' ratings boxes.

When I was in Raleigh, I was asked to participate. The installers came by and looked at my TV (Proscan MM36000) for awhile. They concluded that they couldn't hook the box to the TV, so I lost out on my chance to influence the ratings. I was just going to turn it on to Mamma's Family every night.:) Now that I have a CRT projector, I guess I will never have the chance to be a participant.

Ericglo

I was just going to turn it on to Mamma's Family every night.:)
Ericglo
That is just wrong. :p

Actually, I wonder how that works. Do they get paid for the ep, up to $80k now I see, whether they actually appear in the episode or not? For instance, if Kate doesn't appear at all this week, does she still get to haul in that 80 large? What if she only has 1 line, or no lines but waving as CP postulated...? If that's the case, Sayid has been positively stealing his dough this year! :eek:

And, if they get paid regardless, that would certainly be an incentive not to expand the cast.


They get paid for all eps of the season regardless of how many they appear in.

I don't know anyone with one either - or the written diaries, either.Actually, I've participated with the Nielson diaries twice. First time was probably twenty five years ago. Next time was about ten years ago. :p

Unsure how Nielson works, but I think Eko's backstory was almost 3 weeks ago(?). Funny thing; I don't know anyone who knows anyone with one of those friggin' ratings boxes.

I could tell you I'm participating in the NIELSEN TV RATINGS... but then I'd have to kill you. :eek:

:p

The installers came by and looked at my TV (Proscan MM36000) for awhile. They concluded that they couldn't hook the box to the TV, so I lost out on my chance to influence the ratings. I was just going to turn it on to Mamma's Family every night.:) Gotta love Thomson/RCA :D. They knew you were gonna put the box on MomsFam and gave you that bogus incompatibility story.

Dominic Monaghan on Leno tonight. Smart guy - he was using the word 'antidisestablishmentarianism'...wonder if he can spell it?

I wonder if he even knows what it refers to?

When I was in Raleigh, I was asked to participate. The installers came by and looked at my TV (Proscan MM36000) for awhile. They concluded that they couldn't hook the box to the TV, so I lost out on my chance to influence the ratings. I was just going to turn it on to Mamma's Family every night.:) Now that I have a CRT projector, I guess I will never have the chance to be a participant.

Ericglo

Similar story: when they came to my house to install the equipment all I had at the time was a 36" Sony Wega. They have to install the monitoring equipment inside the TV, so they popped off the back of the set, looked at their manual, called their tech support, and finally concluded they couldn't do the install.

Apparently their favorite install includes someone with a 19" TV, with the VCR blinking "12:00". :eek: That explains SO much about the ratings of some shows!

Similar story: when they came to my house to install the equipment all I had at the time was a 36" Sony Wega. They have to install the monitoring equipment inside the TV, so they popped off the back of the set, looked at their manual, called their tech support, and finally concluded they couldn't do the install.

Apparently their favorite install includes someone with a 19" TV, with the VCR blinking "12:00". :eek: That explains SO much about the ratings of some shows!


Why is it every time I think of the Nielsen box the Duckman episode comes to mind?:) You know the one where they are stranded in the middle of nowhere and a guy throws a box out of his trailer. The kids then ask "What is that?". He replies "Nielsen box. The whole trailer parks got em.":) I love that episode. I love the line the kids comment when driving through the town. They said "Do you think the gene pool could use a little chlorine?":D

Ericglo

wow...that makes so much sense...hopefully with the advent of DVRs and digital means of getting Television, they'll come up with a better way of finding out what people are watching

My daughter said she saw a tatoo on Charlie during his vision of Claire looking like the Virgin Mary that said something like "Life is better with your eyes closed" - anyone know the exact wording?

My daughter said she saw a tattoo on Charlie during his vision of Claire looking like the Virgin Mary that said something like "Life is better with your eyes closed" - anyone know the exact wording?

It says "Living is easy with eyes closed" from the Beatles song Strawberry Fields. It was mentioned in a USA Today Interview. Apparently he's a big John Lennon fan.

He's always had that tattoo, he had it in season 1 aswell.

He's always had that tattoo...
Was he born with it!? :eek:

If she would have said "Living is easy" it would have rung a bell.

My daughter said she saw a tattoo on Charlie during his vision of Claire looking like the Virgin Mary that said something like "Life is better with your eyes closed" - anyone know the exact wording?Geez CP, we discussed this back on page 5. Keep up man! :p


ron

I remember now. It's fun trying to keep up with 210 pages of observations, speculation and theories. :)

Sure can tell it's Tuesday! :p

Sure can tell it's Tuesday!Yah, yah...Panther keeps repeating his posts.

msnbc has an entertaining view of the characters thus far on the show:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11102238/

wooooooo one more week till the next episode


ARGGGGGGGGGGGG

Amusing. Thanks for that :)

Mark

msnbc has an entertaining view of the characters thus far on the show:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11102238/

wooooooo one more week till the next episode

What? Tonight's show isn't new, or, GASP, is being preempted?
ARGGGGGGGGGGGG

Not new.


ron

wow...that makes so much sense...hopefully with the advent of DVRs and digital means of getting Television, they'll come up with a better way of finding out what people are watching

They have...and a lot of people don't like it. Personally, I'm all for it...if it will give a better indication of what people are actually watching.

Tivo "phones home" with a log of what channels you've watched, how long you stayed on a channel, what season passes you have, what segments were re-watched, etc. This is anonymous data. No user information is transmitted or stored. They aggregate all the data to find out what people are watching. This is one way they come up with Tivo Suggestions. Kind of like Amazon's thing where they tell you "Others who bought this book also bought..."

Now, if all DVR info could be collected and used instead of the Nielsen's, we'd be on to something.

Rememer the "wardrobe malfunction" at the Super Bowl? That segment was the most watched piece from Tivo watchers for that week. Evidently people were rewinding and watching it over and over...

I think the way the Neilson ratings work is probably the worst way of collecting data....you either do it without telling the person as to not skew their viewing habits, or you need to poll 100% of the population...seriously, ratings really mind jacksquat...

Not that I care, but I just figured that there are enough spare cycles in the cable boxes that TWC, Comcast, etc. have been logging that sort of thing over the last two or three years...

If so, based on the wife's apparent goal of filling the HHD everyday, the folks around here are getting ready to be deluged in sewing, quilting, court, and food shows...

Maybe that is why some of the DVR boxes have inexplicable dropouts from the increased memory/CPU load?

v/r,
C-F

Not new.Right, but I missed this one first go round, so it's new to me.

Not that I care, but I just figured that there are enough spare cycles in the cable boxes that TWC, Comcast, etc. have been logging that sort of thing over the last two or three years...



v/r,
C-F
I'm 99% sure they have been, in fact I recall reading something recently that Comcast was doing something with the data with regards to marketing.

Somehow I had missed last night's episode last season (prior to TiVO for me) when Hurley goes to find the French woman.

The bad luck/curse associated with the numbers (happened to multiple people) seems to indicate something cosmic/supernatural. Interesting that Hurley's co-patient, the one reciting the numbers, served as a Navy radio operator on an island in the Pacific.

So we have people being "attracted" to the island by the numbers, an inordinate amount of wrecks/crashes there, the raft that floats back to the island, signs of the previously studied magnetism on the island. Maybe it's some sort of vortex of magnetism, ocean currents, gravity, and other unseen forces that do draw things/people there. And these forces might have physiological and psychological impacts which cause the sickness referred to and which Desmond was taking injections to protect against.

Speaking of, did Desmond take the injections and/or why hasn't that been found and inspected by Jack the Dr.?

Just rambling...

...And these forces might have physiological and psychological impacts which cause the sickness referred to and which Desmond was taking injections to protect against...

Ah, the "sickness". Me thinks Dharma has developed the 'antidote' and is controlling it's supply.

By the way, where the heck did Desmond get to anyway? It's been a few episodes now since he fled the bunker.

Saw this article this morning about our mysterious Mr. Eko, or at least the actor who plays him on TV.

'Lost' actor delivers state Senate prayer
Associated PressHONOLULU -

One of the actors of the ABC series "Lost" left behind his star power to promote a different type of strength among local lawmakers - harmony and hope.
Dressed in a simple gray suit draped with a single strand of maile leaves, Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje, a devout Buddhist, quietly delivered the traditional, daily prayer before the state Senate on Tuesday.
"I thank you very much, deeply, from the root of my heart because I believe this is what my mission is in life to share this practice and to create dialogue with others," Akinnuoye-Agbaje said.
Akinnuoye-Agbaje plays the character of Mr. Eko, a former African drug lord who had taken on the identity of a Roman Catholic priest. The series is filmed in Hawaii.
Akinnuoye-Agbaje read the 23rd Psalm, which is also the title of the "Lost" episode during which Eko's violent past and struggle for redemption are revealed.
Akinnuoye-Agbaje was invited to deliver the invocation by Sen. Fred Hemmings, R-Lanikai-Waimanalo, after the senator saw the episode featuring Eko's story.
Though the show has been sweeping up awards, including a Golden Globe last month for best television drama series, Akinnuoye-Agbaje called his appearance before the Hawaii Legislature "the pinnacle" of his career.
"This to me is the greatest reward because it's based upon my faith," he said in an interview following the invocation.

Right, but I missed this one first go round, so it's new to me.
New to a lot of viewers including me. I believe it was skipped in season 1 reruns. ABC took a lot of flack last season for not rerunning the ENTIRE season.

So we have people being "attracted" to the island by the numbers, an inordinate amount of wrecks/crashes there, the raft that floats back to the island, signs of the previously studied magnetism on the island. Maybe it's some sort of vortex of magnetism, ocean currents, gravity, and other unseen forces that do draw things/people there. And these forces might have physiological and psychological impacts which cause the sickness referred to and which Desmond was taking injections to protect against.



Reminds me of the book (not the Movie) Phantoms horrifying, injuries and deaths, that look almost supernatural with a plausible biological explanation at the end.

Reminds me of the book (not the Movie) Phantoms horrifying, injuries and deaths, that look almost supernatural with a plausible biological explanation at the end.


Not sure you could call it plausible....especially Ben Affleck as the Sherriff

Not sure you could call it plausible....especially Ben Affleck as the SherriffThe sherriff in the book was named Ben Affleck? How weird! :rolleyes:

The sherriff in the book was named Ben Affleck? How weird! :rolleyes:
Thank you.

New to a lot of viewers including me. I believe it was skipped in season 1 reruns. ABC took a lot of flack last season for not rerunning the ENTIRE season.Yeah, Panther said there was a flashback or something that showed Hurley talking to that guy (who gave him the numbers) in the hospital. I didn't realize Hugo had 2 back-story eps. He'll probably get one more. And I could only guess they skipped some eps to make fans buy the DVD sets or download them from iTunes.

Not sure you could call it plausible....especially Ben Affleck as the Sherriff


Sorry, totally misread your quote (missed the book part).

Reminds me of the book (not the Movie) Phantoms horrifying, injuries and deaths, that look almost supernatural with a plausible biological explanation at the end.


Phantoms is a good book indeed .. as are all other Dean Koontz books. I'd recommend "Fear Nothing" followed with the sequel "Seize The Night" .. really good stuff.

While we're on the subject of books, who's writing that Lost book "Bad Twin"? Do we know yet? I'm seriously hoping it's Dean Koontz, my fav show and my fav author coming together would be the best thing to happen.

That post about Ben Affleck as the Sherriff made me think back and I'm wondering what is it with Dean Koontz and the Sherriff's dept? LOL

Anyone read "Intensity"? ;)

I think the way the Neilson ratings work is probably the worst way of collecting data....you either do it without telling the person as to not skew their viewing habits, or you need to poll 100% of the population...seriously, ratings really mind jacksquat...Basic statistics tells us otherwise. Collecting data without consent would be against the law. So choosing a small, random sample of all viewers is the only practical way of getting idea of people's viewing habits. Of course getting "everyone's" viewing habits be ideal, but the 25,000 Nielsen households already generate 4,000 gigabytes of data a day. Multiply that by 4,000 to get close to the total number of households in the US. That amount of data would be more than the total storage space of Google. And you'd still have to be able process it. We're a long ways away from being able to crunch that much data every day.


Now, if all DVR info could be collected and used instead of the Nielsen's, we'd be on to something.Did you notice the blurb at the bottom of many ratings releases? Ratings information is taken from fast national data, which includes live and same-day DVR viewing. All numbers are preliminary and subject to change.

Basic statistics tells us otherwise. Collecting data without consent would be against the law. So choosing a small, random sample of all viewers is the only practical way of getting idea of people's viewing habits. Of course getting "everyone's" viewing habits be ideal, but the 25,000 Nielsen households already generate 4,000 gigabytes of data a day. Multiply that by 4,000 to get close to the total number of households in the US. That amount of data would be more than the total storage space of Google. And you'd still have to be able process it. We're a long ways away from being able to crunch that much data every day.


Did you notice the blurb at the bottom of many ratings releases?


why does it require so much space? 4000 GBs a day? For what? I don't see how that is neccessary at all...they could easily devise a new way of sampling the population to see what everyone is watching...either way, the ratings are a crock if you need a box

why does it require so much space? 4000 GBs a day? For what?
Apparently they're requiring viewers to attach electrodes to their bodies when they watch TV. :eek:

I should probably take back that 4,000 GB per day number. The site actually says that's the amount of data available for the customer the next day. It's likely inflated by merging the minute by minute data with demographics, show info, etc. They claim 10 million minutes of data a day for 25,000 households, so while the number for everyone would be large, it probably would fit on Google's servers.

And they are sampling to estimate what everyone's watching. If you actually take a measurement of everyone, you're no longer sampling -- you're doing a census. Again, basic statistics.

Well, if you want to go technical :) - they are only estimating what the television is displaying...

(unless they use scowl's probes)

v/r,
C-F

Wow - neat bit of juxtaposition with the LOST commercial at halftime.

Wow - neat bit of juxtaposition with the LOST commercial at halftime.

Even though it technically wasn't a product commercial, it is one of the better Superbowl Spots.

We need to watch it again.

We need to watch it again.


Go to ABC.com. I went there to check something this morning and the "Addicted to Lost" video started playing automatically. It was one of the best spots during the game. Made me laugh. And oh, to see the Robert Palmer girls again. Ahhh...

If you go to ABC.com and after the "Addicted to Lost" video plays click on the "Click Here For More Video" you will see a 3 minute (3x longer than the one that played during the Superbowl) version of the "Addicted to Lost" video (after a possible ad for Comcast or Toyota Van).

If you go to ABC.com and after the "Addicted to Lost" video plays click on the "Click Here For More Video" you will see a 3 minute (3x longer than the one that played during the Superbowl) version of the "Addicted to Lost" video (after a possible ad for Comcast or Toyota Van).

Direct link to the 3 minute version:

http://abc.go.com/fsp/index.html?channel=SuperBowlPromos&clip=102942

FYI and be warned: To all those that depend on recording or taping this weeks edition of Lost. You might want to manually add on a few minutes to the end of your tape schedule.

My Comcast tv channel guide shows this weeks episode to run from 9:00 - 10:03 pm.
I can't rely on my DVR to tape the entire show so I will add 5 minutes to the ending.

FYI and be warned: To all those that depend on recording or taping this weeks edition of Lost. You might want to manually add on a few minutes to the end of your tape schedule.

My Comcast tv channel guide shows this weeks episode to run from 9:00 - 10:03 pm.
I can't rely on my DVR to tape the entire show so I will add 5 minutes to the ending.

My guide shows the episode to run 5 minutes over.

My guide shows the episode to run 5 minutes over.

:rolleyes: Well at least we know to pad the endtime. thanks

I think this might be a spoiler.
I don't know how to put a spoiler tag on it so if someone could please do so.




To enclose the above in spoilers quotes use {SPOILER} at the beginning, and {/SPOILER} at the end. Just replace the parentheses with brackets []

like this

And yes, it should be in spoiler quotes.

To enclose the above in spoilers quotes use {SPOILER} at the beginning, and {/SPOILER} at the end. Just replace the parentheses with brackets []

like this

And yes, it should be in spoiler quotes.

Even though we all knew this was going to happen.

The cast & staff does not like her, most fans of the show do not like her or her character or acting. :eek: and the legal problems sealed her fate.

Uh, what's the NAME of this thread?

I can't rely on my DVR to tape the entire show ...

Well of course not. It's a DVR, not a VCR.

;-)

Sorry I couldn't resist.

Anyone know which character's backstory is featured in tonight's episode? My first guess is Jin/Sun since we see her get nabbed by the Others in the previews.

it's a sawyer flashback

Anyone know which character's backstory is featured in tonight's episode? My first guess is Jin/Sun since we see her get nabbed by the Others in the previews.

to protect those innocent eyes, I spoilerize:

Sawyer's backstory tonight

2 hours!

Did anyone see Sawyer this mornig on "Live with Regis and that other girl"? I didn't.

Tonight's episode looks like it could be very good because of Jack and Sawyer.

A good episode of Lost. It looks like we have a new sheriff on the island and his name is Sawyer.

A good episode of Lost. It looks like we have a new sheriff on the island and his name is Sawyer.

Best episode in a long time in my opinion.

I can't believe no one posted anything during the show. Apparently everyone is too busy arguing over in the various D* threads.

Great episode. That's how you spring right back after a silly Charlie episode. Of course, now we can see where that episode ties in to the mix...

I hope they're not trying to make Sawyer a "bad guy", cause I'm liking him more and more each week.

I hope they're not trying to make Sawyer a "bad guy", cause I'm liking him more and more each week.
I don't know - I kind of like him this way. Of course, I still think A.L. could take him...

Interesting who the waitress was in the restaurant with Sawyer.

Does Kate have a sister?

I can't believe no one posted anything during the show. Apparently everyone is too busy arguing over in the various D* threads.Maybe they're actually watching the show? :cool:

Hmm, I'm not sure what to think of this ep right now. I thought it moved along well and was entertaining; I just wonder how this plan of Sawyer's will work out. I mean, how could he possibly keep all the guns hidden from everyone? How can he guard them 24/7?

Anyone notice the book Locke was shaking? Incident at Owl Creek Bridge. I think the writers are playing with us again. They've been reading this forum again.

Also, the manuscript Hugo found (The Bad Twin?) We keep talking about the Others. Anybody ever read the book by Thomas Tryon, The Other. Again, I wonder if they are playing with us.

Really great episode. The Hobbit has turned to the dark side.

Interesting who the waitress was in the restaurant with Sawyer.

Who?

Who?

Looked like Kate's mom.

Also, the manuscript Hugo found (The Bad Twin?) We keep talking about the Others. Anybody ever read the book by Thomas Tryon, The Other. Again, I wonder if they are playing with us.


Look up Bad Twin on Amazon - ABC is actually releasing the book. They even have a bio of the "author", reporting that he died in the crash of Oceanic 815.

Does Kate have a sister?


Another clue that might point to Kate being related to his girlfriend: His nickname for each of them is similar, Dimples and Freckles.

Anyone notice the book Locke was shaking? Incident at Owl Creek Bridge. I think the writers are playing with us again. They've been reading this forum again.

Also, the manuscript Hugo found (The Bad Twin?) We keep talking about the Others. Anybody ever read the book by Thomas Tryon, The Other. Again, I wonder if they are playing with us.



As has been mentioned, they're releasing "The Bad Twin" as a kind of spin off novel. Who knows if it's anything more than a marketing gimick.

"Incident at Owl Creek Bridge" was made into a B&W short in the sixties by French film makers I believe. The film had no dialogue. Rod Serling liked the film, and given the fact that it had the right length and mood for a Twilight Zone episode, he purchased it and released it as an episode of TZ. I know TZ was a big influence on J.J. Abrams and probably the other writers who are more involved in the show as well. Maybe it has more meaning that another pop culture reference though.

I also liked the episode...unlike Jack's episode, it gave us a little bit more depth to Saywer. We truly got to see how far he would go to pull a scam which definitely corresponded to what is happening on the island. I can only hope that Sawyer is acting in the good of the community and not out of sheer selfessness. I don't think he's really as bad as he feels he is. I think he seeing how the islanders are going (army, arming themselves) and knows this is a bad path to walk.

One sidenote about what Hurley says when they're using the radio. When Sayid (welcome back) was talking about the signal bouncing off the Ionasphere (or whatever), Hurly said "or what time?"...do you think the writers were making another joke about the forum commentary that the survivors are actually in another time-period? Or do you think it its an actual clue to the on-going story? Either way, I like those little asides, they just add another dimension to the story.

Looks like next week is going to be interesting...moving the plot along definitely.

...Maybe it has more meaning that another pop culture reference though.

With the Owl Creek/death theory AND the time travel theory both being mentioned in the same episode, I'd say it's just the writers yanking our chains!

They REALLY need to stop doing that and just tell the story...we get it, we're crazy conspiracy theorists...but don't pander us...just freaking tell the story

With the Owl Creek/death theory AND the time travel theory both being mentioned in the same episode, I'd say it's just the writers yanking our chains!

LOL pretty much yeah.

It was nice to see Locke look like an idiot...can't blame Charlie for holding a grudge. Although I can blame Charlie for assault and being an A**hole.

With the Owl Creek/death theory AND the time travel theory both being mentioned in the same episode, I'd say it's just the writers yanking our chains!

I can't disagree...

It was nice to see Locke look like an idiot...

I kinda agree. To me, Locke was getting a little full of himself. Great episode. Appropriately titled "The Long Con". A lot of second guessing. No one seems to trust anyone now. Next weeks previews look good too. In the preview for next week, Ana Lucia says "I think I just saw one"....kinda looked like the french woman Rousseau??? Good to see Sayid back in action. "My name is Sayid Jarrah, and I am the torturer" :eek:

Looked like Kate's mom.

It was.

One thing that bothered me.... If Sawyer was going to pull the long con on the chick all along, then what was the whole scene in the diner with his pardner about? She wasn't there, so there was no need to "stage" his "attack of conscious", right?

I don't know for sure (maybe we'll learn in the next Sawyer flashback), but I didn't think Sawyer liked being threatened much...He might have "taken care of" his partner.

2 problems with this, Locke saying the safe wouldn't keep them out - I assume he found it alreaDY OPEN AND SO IS ABLE TO RESET THE COMBO, BUT ONCE CLOSED AND LOCKED.....

C'mon, this is a Dharma safe after all.

Also, Locke has exhibited almost a 6th sense in tracking, and knowing he's being tracked, yet Charlie, a junkie, tracked him unawares? Doesn't ring true.

or he's crazy...thats one idea that came to my mind when they we saw that nobody else was in the car with him....

or he's crazy...thats one idea that came to my mind when they we saw that nobody else was in the car with him....

Do you think he might have been dreaming... of the man he wishes he was - the one that would be able to scuttle the long con for love?

So are they really going to let the countdown reach zero next week??

So are they really going to let the countdown reach zero next week??

The countdown certainly seemed to hit zero. Maybe we will finally get some resolution to a significant mystery.

I hope they're not trying to make Sawyer a "bad guy", cause I'm liking him more and more each week.

I think Jack is good, Locke will be evil, and Sawyer is the chosen one, prophesied to bring balance to the force.

I agree that beginning with the last few episodes of season 1, he has become one of the more interesting characters.

One thing that bothered me.... If Sawyer was going to pull the long con on the chick all along, then what was the whole scene in the diner with his pardner about? She wasn't there, so there was no need to "stage" his "attack of conscious", right?He was also most likely scamming his partner also..

He was also most likely scamming his partner also..

But there would be no need to go through all that - his partner was already expecting him to go through with the con. Considering his "original" partner was played by Robert Patrick, maybe he actually had no partner this time and was imagining him. This is a tough one to figure out, unless I missed some clues....

Best one in a while. Sawyer has always been my favorite character on the show, and I am glad he finally got give some of what he has been getting. I never liked Jack, and last week when Locke beat down Charlie, I no longer liked his character either. Charlie was already utterly beaten and hurt, and Locke went way over the top with that beat down. What he has Charlie by how many inches and pounds? I mean come on Charlie's practically a Hobbit :) .

I don't know how Charlie can atone for hurting Sun. He has taken the path of darkness.

Interersting seeing every ones take on Sawyer's con with the lady. Here is my take.

I think he really had an attack of conscious and didn't want to do the con. But I think he really did think his partner was dangerous, and would kill him and/or the lady. Despite his conning, at heart Sawyer is not a killer, (his one kill aside). So he finished the con, and his partners threat was just a convienent enough prop to his ploy. We will find out if that is true I guess if he meets back up with his partner to give him his share of the spoils.

Does anyone remember the marital status of Kate's childhood sweetheart that got killed? Didn't the conned lady last night say she had $600,000 left over from her husband's settlement? Or was it a divorce? Any chance that chick was his widow?

My recording cut off during the scene between Charlie and Sawyer at the end. Sawyer said something about not being a nice person and that was it. What did I miss?

So what happened between this con and Sawyer going to Austraila? I remember somebody told him the person who conned his parents was there. Was that the partner from this episode? Seems like I'm missing something here.

This episode left me a bit disappointed. Charlie wasn't the greatest character on the show, but I don't like him turning to the dark side. And like someone mentioned earlier, I also wondered how Locke didn't realize he was being followed.

I thought with Sawyer starting to be "better" guy (not yet a good guy) the story might start moving on toward learning more about the others, the island, the "incident," etc,. With Sawyer back to his old stupid self (he wants to be sheriff??) I'm afraid we're going to get stuck in the routine of fighting between characters. I don't want fighting, I want an answer to the mysteries of the island.

one line made the show.....

"You gonna put the lime in the coconut ... shake 'em both together? dude... the lime? just tryin' to cheer ya up dude"

Does anyone remember the marital status of Kate's childhood sweetheart that got killed? Didn't the conned lady last night say she had $600,000 left over from her husband's settlement? Or was it a divorce? Any chance that chick was his widow?

Married. don't think it connected...I think the connection was the waitress was Kate's mom

This episode left me a bit disappointed. Charlie wasn't the greatest character on the show, but I don't like him turning to the dark side. And like someone mentioned earlier, I also wondered how Locke didn't realize he was being followed.

I thought with Sawyer starting to be "better" guy (not yet a good guy) the story might start moving on toward learning more about the others, the island, the "incident," etc,. With Sawyer back to his old stupid self (he wants to be sheriff??) I'm afraid we're going to get stuck in the routine of fighting between characters. I don't want fighting, I want an answer to the mysteries of the island.


My take on why Locke didn't know he was being tracked: He was scared, anxious, stressing. I'm sure he was in such a hurry, he would not have been in tune with his surroundings. His eyes showed fear when he realized what may happen.

Does anyone remember the marital status of Kate's childhood sweetheart that got killed? Didn't the conned lady last night say she had $600,000 left over from her husband's settlement? Or was it a divorce? Any chance that chick was his widow?

I'd have to watch again, but I'm pretty sure she said "Divorce".

But there would be no need to go through all that - his partner was already expecting him to go through with the con. Considering his "original" partner was played by Robert Patrick, maybe he actually had no partner this time and was imagining him. This is a tough one to figure out, unless I missed some clues....

It would be a serious turn of events if Sawyer was schizo...or imagining things...It would make sense that Sawyer had a split-personality...it would explain why he does certain things at certain times

one line made the show.....

"You gonna put the lime in the coconut ... shake 'em both together? dude... the lime? just tryin' to cheer ya up dude"That dude needs to lose a couple of coconut pounds.. :D

I think the only way they can redeem Charlie now is for him to do something heroic. VERY heroic. I wonder if that will possibly be a confrontation between Locke and himself.

After reading through other posts and reflecting on stuff that has happened, I'm beginning to think that Locke might be the bad guy for Aaron that they psychic warned about. He's really cuddling up to that baby. And perhaps Locke beat up Charlie because he doesn't want Charlie to mess up his plans. Charlie has had his own semi-encounter with the black cloud (his visions followed) so that makes me wonder what role he'll play in the future because of that.

I'd have to watch again, but I'm pretty sure she said "Divorce".

Yeah, it was divorce.

Locke didn't notice Charlie following him because obviously Charlie had his hooded jacket covering his face which makes him invisible. It worked last week. :)

So when Locke sees that the statues are also missing from the safe, how long until he figures out Charlie was in on it and starts beating the crap out of him again to find out where they are and presumably where the guns are? Charlie is by far the weakest link in Sawyer's scheme.

or he's crazy...thats one idea that came to my mind when they we saw that nobody else was in the car with him....

The man definitely existed....

Sawyer's ruse was just his way of adapting to the situation. Instead of going through with the original con, he changed it and had her leave town and get her out of the way (and safe from his partner, just in case).

Sawyer takes care of Sawyer first...everyone else comes in dead last. :-)

Locke didn't notice Charlie following him because obviously Charlie had his hooded jacket covering his face which makes him invisible. It worked last week. :)

So when Locke sees that the statues are also missing from the safe, how long until he figures out Charlie was in on it and starts beating the crap out of him again to find out where they are and presumably where the guns are? Charlie is by far the weakest link in Sawyer's scheme.

Charlie CAN'T admit to being part of the scheme...he assaulted Sun. Jin would waste him ..."GUN!" ;-) So he'll DENY DENY DENY.

They REALLY need to stop doing that and just tell the story...we get it, we're crazy conspiracy theorists...but don't pander us...just freaking tell the story
Right...because that one line about time travel and the few seconds of locke shaking a book took up SO much time from the story. :rolleyes:

I guess the whole part about Sawyer tricking everyone into getting him the guns, enlisting Charlie's help (who wanted to get back at Locke), Anna Lucia now knowing that Jack doesn't trust her...I guess that wasn't actually telling the "story"...

Anyone notice the book Locke was shaking? Incident at Owl Creek Bridge. I think the writers are playing with us again. They've been reading this forum again.

Also, the manuscript Hugo found (The Bad Twin?) We keep talking about the Others. Anybody ever read the book by Thomas Tryon, The Other. Again, I wonder if they are playing with us.

Really great episode. The Hobbit has turned to the dark side.That was weird seeing the "Owl Creek" book. We discussed that over a year ago HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5012800&&#post5012800) but there have been many things that have happened since that have dismissed the "life flashing" theory. I agree, chain yank.

My take on why Locke didn't know he was being tracked: He was scared, anxious, stressing. I'm sure he was in such a hurry, he would not have been in tune with his surroundings. His eyes showed fear when he realized what may happen.I thought that was part of the con also - get Locke scared and hurried so he would make mistakes. But Locke would have been on the lookout for Jack et al following him, and he has caught Charlie following him at least once... Still a gaping hole there to be overlooked.

v/r,
C-F

Plus, carrying ALL those weapons probably negated any chance of Locke being stealthy.

maybe its that Locke isnt as good as they've made him look to be. Figuring that when he's "around" other people in the group, he puts on this great show, con perhaps, that he's a good tracker... but when he's out in the woods, all alone, he's not putting on an act and gets clumsy. He WAS an employee of a box company, and in a wheelchair, they've never really shown that he's ever had any sort of experience with outdoorsy type stuff... I mean look how silly he acted around his father, someone with such great supposed instincts would be much more mature than he was.

So are they really going to let the countdown reach zero next week??The countdown certainly seemed to hit zero. Maybe we will finally get some resolution to a significant mystery.

Looks like a dream to me...

Both previous times that the count has gotten down to 0:01 before the code was entered, the clock showed:

"0:01"

In the preview, it was:

" : 1"

with no Zeros showing.

Not the same clock...

~Dan

You don't think that they producers would use the previews to mislead us do you? They have never done that before! :D

Looks like a dream to me...

Both previous times that the count has gotten down to 0:01 before the code was entered, the clock showed:

"0:01"

In the preview, it was:

" : 1"

with no Zeros showing.

Not the same clock...

~Dan

I swear they showed it at " : 0" in the preview....

I swear they showed it at " : 0" in the preview....

I agree. It said "0", but not 0:00.

I can't believe no one posted anything during the show. Apparently everyone is too busy arguing over in the various D* threads.

Great episode. That's how you spring right back after a silly Charlie episode. Of course, now we can see where that episode ties in to the mix...
I can't believe that people post things online while at the same time watching the show. Actually seems kind of stupid to me.

Regarding the clock in the preview, weren't all the numbers white on black panels? I thought the hatch clock had white numbers on black for minutes and black on white for seconds.

Haha, they think they are so tricky..

heres the cap from the preview for next week... http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=957&pos=20

heres a picture of the clock from a previous episode... http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=737&pos=553

So basically they were showing us the clock at 0:xx, but not showing the seconds. This causes Jack and Locke to argue, but they still have 0:59 to push the button.

I thought that was part of the con also - get Locke scared and hurried so he would make mistakes. But Locke would have been on the lookout for Jack et al following him, and he has caught Charlie following him at least once... Still a gaping hole there to be overlooked.

v/r,
C-F
Locke wouldn't expect Jack to be stealthy. Jack would have plunged in and confronted him directly. Because he was expecting Jack, he didn't figure to watch for someone who might not want to be seen.

I can't believe that people post things online while at the same time watching the show. Actually seems kind of stupid to me.
I normally don't do it myself, either - I was just surprised no one was since usually someone does. Even after the show ended on the East Coast, it was a while before any real discussion started. It just seemed odd to me considering 1) last weeks was a repeat so people some people were sure to be itching for a new ep. and 2) it was a very good episode, especially compared to the Charlie one.

I normally don't do it myself, either - I was just surprised no one was since usually someone does. Even after the show ended on the East Coast, it was a while before any real discussion started. It just seemed odd to me considering 1) last weeks was a repeat so people some people were sure to be itching for a new ep. and 2) it was a very good episode, especially compared to the Charlie one.

Me, for as long as it lasts, am hooked on Invasion, so no posts until that is over. I admit I was tempted to post after seeing the Owl Creek Bridge shot since I remembered we had discussed that I think 8 years ago. :rolleyes:

Charlie CAN'T admit to being part of the scheme...he assaulted Sun. Jin would waste him ..."GUN!" ;-) So he'll DENY DENY DENY.
So as long as the pyromanic baby-snatching drug addict denies being involved, everyone will believe him? He's the least credible Lostaway on the island. People dislike him even more than Anna Lucia. I suspect Charlie won't be able to take a whiz in the jungle without Locke following him. He won't take on Sawyer since he's armed to the teeth but he'll be all over Charlie once he hears a statue getting smashed.

Hmm.. Intense magnetic field in the bunker. Hints about time travel. Secret project.. This reminds me of the "Philadelphia Experiment".

This is where a US Navy ship was placed in an intense magnetic field and either moved in another dimension, moved in time, and/or became invisible depending on which crackpot theory you believe. Look it up in Wikipedia and you will see what I am talking about. This is just a big urban legend but maybe the writters of Lost are using something similar as a plot device.

So basically they were showing us the clock at 0:xx, but not showing the seconds. This causes Jack and Locke to argue, but they still have 0:59 to push the button.No. These are two totally different displays. The real clock has no space between the numbers with a black background, then a space between the minutes and seconds, and then no space between the digits of the seconds:

XXX XX

The preview clock has spaces between each digit:

X X X

Also, there are only three flip cards, the cards are much larger than the numbers themselves, and there are none with white backgrounds.

Xesdeeni

That reminds me... why isn't Sayid and the other Lostaways with technical abilities down in the hatch trying to figure out what all that stuff does? It looked like Sayid and Jack started some promising investigation, Michael took the project over but now it's just someplace people go to type in the numbers as they do their laundry.

I think everyone exhibited some "dark side" - not just Charlie. Even Jack seems to be getting a bit big for his britches. Could they all be getting "infected" by the island, like the French woman's crewmates?

-Chris

Sawyer is, by his own admission, not a "good person". So, presumably, he's not on any Other's lists - don't know what that means, but there it is.

In fact, he's so bad, he's perfectly willing to give Charlie the key to his (Charlie's) destruction (the smack-filled idol) just to get him involved in Sawyer's scheme to get the guns! It's like he's always fighting his conscience, and his conscience never wins, which results in anti-social behavior and self-loathing. This is one really, really conflicted guy.

I'm beginning to think he just imagined his "partner" and the death threat in order to justify his actions in going through with the con. Maybe that's a rationalization effort?

So, in a past episode, didn't Locke confront "sawyer" that his name WASn'T sawyer but actually JAMES? And in this episode LOCKE calls him "JAAAMEES" sort of fecetiously.

Anyway, then, in one scene the woman who is being conned, she calls him "sawyer" Anyone notice this? So, WAS his name SAWYER all along, or was this a slipup?

I normally don't do it myself, either - I was just surprised no one was since usually someone does. Even after the show ended on the East Coast, it was a while before any real discussion started. It just seemed odd to me considering 1) last weeks was a repeat so people some people were sure to be itching for a new ep. and 2) it was a very good episode, especially compared to the Charlie one.

I do occassionally during commercials while something is fresh in my mind. What's stupid about it?

im sure sawyer said his name was sawyer to the girl, since he was conning her and all... she didnt know either that his real name was james.

Hmm.. Intense magnetic field in the bunker. Hints about time travel. Secret project.. This reminds me of the "Philadelphia Experiment".

This is where a US Navy ship was placed in an intense magnetic field and either moved in another dimension, moved in time, and/or became invisible depending on which crackpot theory you believe. Look it up in Wikipedia and you will see what I am talking about. This is just a big urban legend but maybe the writters of Lost are using something similar as a plot device.

See post #9004.

So, in a past episode, didn't Locke confront "sawyer" that his name WASn'T sawyer but actually JAMES? And in this episode LOCKE calls him "JAAAMEES" sort of fecetiously.

Anyway, then, in one scene the woman who is being conned, she calls him "sawyer" Anyone notice this? So, WAS his name SAWYER all along, or was this a slipup?
His real name is James Ford and Locke got that from the passenger manifest I believe. "Sawyer" is the name of a con-man that conned James' parents and they ended up as a murder/suicide. James Ford adopted the name of Sawyer when he ended up becoming a con-artist as well.

Great episode - my 2nd favorite this season behind Mr. Eko's.

Sawyer just can't help himself - he would really benefit by thinking a little before speaking or acting. Now he's got a stash of guns and nobody to trust to keep an eye on them when he sleeps. He's just picked another battle he has no chance of winning and I guess that's why we love his character so much on the show. How this plays out is going to be really enjoyable to watch.

Tim

They REALLY need to stop doing that and just tell the story...we get it, we're crazy conspiracy theorists...but don't pander us...just freaking tell the storyIsn't it frustrating to get hooked on a show like this? :D :D

It's as if you're reading a book you don't want to set down, but someone keeps inserting more pages to lengthen the chapters.

I like the direction this last episode is headed.

Tim

Wow. Once again, the worst shot on the whole island gets his hands on a gun(s). Sawyer is more annoying than Ana-Lucia. The ep was OK for filler, but Charlie's back-story was a bit more interesting (IMO), with all the allegorical imagery and, all.

Anyways, looks like things are getting ready to pick up. Next week: Dr. Sayid/Mr. Bauer.... someone's badly needing to vent their frustrations.

Isn't it frustrating to get hooked on a show like this? :D :D

It's as if you're reading a book you don't want to set down, but someone keeps inserting more pages to lengthen the chapters.

I like the direction this last episode is headed.

Tim

which is why i dont understand why people want them to finish the story and end it. then you have no more lost.... what fun is that?

So as long as the pyromanic baby-snatching drug addict denies being involved, everyone will believe him? He's the least credible Lostaway on the island. People dislike him even more than Anna Lucia. I suspect Charlie won't be able to take a whiz in the jungle without Locke following him. He won't take on Sawyer since he's armed to the teeth but he'll be all over Charlie once he hears a statue getting smashed.


There's what ppl suspect, and what they can prove. As long as he sticks to his story, it will be hard to do anything to him.

Does anyone have any idea why the scene where Sawyer picks up his attache' and it falls open, revealing his "fake" money, looks so familiar to me? I had the strong feeling that I had seen this scene before. For a second I thought it must have been in an earlier episode, but I'm not sure. Especially when he said, "you weren't exactly supposed to see that". Did Sawyer say that same line in another episode?

Does anyone have any idea why the scene where Sawyer picks up his attache' and it falls open, revealing his "fake" money, looks so familiar to me? I had the strong feeling that I had seen this scene before. For a second I thought it must have been in an earlier episode, but I'm not sure. Especially when he said, "you weren't exactly supposed to see that". Did Sawyer say that same line in another episode?

Yes, it was a routine. During Season 1 he pulls the same move/line with another woman (though that time successfully... until he sees the kid at her house).

Not good news...

Staring at a two-hour "Idol" and The Olympics, ABC...on that night (Feb. 22) is airing a rerun of the "Lost" pilot instead of a new episode because, as ABC scheduling chief Jeff Bader told the Associated Press, "there are certain programming combinations that you don't want to go up against -- we're better off saving an original."

The Winter Olympics will face a mess of "Idol" over its 16 days. Seven hours on five nights, to be exact, including the usual two hours next week, plus expanded two-hour editions Feb. 21 and Feb. 22..

There's what ppl suspect, and what they can prove. As long as he sticks to his story, it will be hard to do anything to him.
Are you serious? These people tortured Sawyer over a missing inhaler last season and that was before they had any idea how dangerous this island is. A cache of guns is much more serious than that. All they have to do to Charlie is dangle some Lady H in his face and he'll tell them anything.

Are you serious? These people tortured Sawyer over a missing inhaler last season and that was before they had any idea how dangerous this island is. A cache of guns is much more serious than that. All they have to do to Charlie is dangle some Lady H in his face and he'll tell them anything.

LOL yes I'm serious. Charlie apparently has NOT been using. He didn't take the statues from Sawyer, even though he had the chance.

I think Charlie's made of tougher stuff than ppl give him credit for. Although he is apparently getting 'sick' and wacked out his mind, so who knows? :-)

Besides, they have no Lady H to dangle.

No. These are two totally different displays. The real clock has no space between the numbers with a black background, then a space between the minutes and seconds, and then no space between the digits of the seconds:

XXX XX

The preview clock has spaces between each digit:

X X X

Also, there are only three flip cards, the cards are much larger than the numbers themselves, and there are none with white backgrounds.

Xesdeeni

Yeah I noticed that too. So if it's a new clock, where is it physically located?

In Dreamland :eek:

Yeah I noticed that too. So if it's a new clock, where is it physically located?

It's either another hatch or a dream. Surely they wouldn't have changed the hatch set and given it a new countdown clock, unless there's more than one cowntdown clock in the hatch (there are a lot of rooms down there). It's probably gonna be another cop out like the last time they showed the timer hitting 0 in the teaser though which will suck.

I'm really hoping it's not a dream or other copout. If it is a dream, why go to the trouble of building a different looking clock device? Seems a bit unlikely to me, so maybe that's a positive sign.

Remember guys, Jin really speaks fluent english too ;)

I'm beginning to think he just imagined his "partner" and the death threat in order to justify his actions in going through with the con. Maybe that's a rationalization effort?

If he imagined his partner, then Kate's mother imagined him, too.

He did order two beers. One for each personality? ;)

I don't think anyone pointed out that the victim of Sawyer's long con - Cassidy is played by the actress who plays Joanie Stubbs on Deadwood - Kim Dickens. Y'all knew that though.

She'll always be the sleeping girl on Hollow Man to me. ;)

Now he's got a stash of guns and nobody to trust to keep an eye on them when he sleeps.

If he dies, the guns are gone forever. He is assuming that is worse for the rest of them than him being the new sherriff.

I'm really hoping it's not a dream or other copout. If it is a dream, why go to the trouble of building a different looking clock device? Seems a bit unlikely to me, so maybe that's a positive sign.Maybe it's in a back story?

Xesdeeni

If he imagined his partner, then Kate's mother imagined him, too.

Hmmmm, good point. Still, the "imagining it" theory could still be the case and the producers are just throwing her in there to have a little fun with the more obsessive fans who would have recognized her.... but you're probably right.

I'm starting to give more credence to the theory that Sawyer wasted his "new" partner and went ahead with the con anyway. That murder would be deliberate, premeditated and unnecessary though - which takes his character in an even darker direction, and one we hadn't suspected before. Personally, I hope that's not the case; I don't want him to be that bad.

Maybe it's in a back story?

Xesdeeni

The 'second' clock (no pun) could be any clock anywhere. The point is the previews made it look like the 'countdown' clock reached zero (0). Personally I like the way they do the previews. They are exciting and yet you never know what exactly they are showing us which does exactly what a preview should do - make you want to watch the show.

Yes, it was a routine. During Season 1 he pulls the same move/line with another woman (though that time successfully... until he sees the kid at her house).Oh, yes! Of course! :o My memory still works, just not very well. :confused:

and where is desmond?? you think he really got off the island?

(maybe he has a barrel in the market place) ;)

and where is desmond?? you think he really got off the island?

(maybe he has a barrel in the market place) ;)

Perchance a "barrow" in the marketplace?

I'm starting to give more credence to the theory that Sawyer wasted his "new" partner and went ahead with the con anyway. That murder would be deliberate, premeditated and unnecessary though - which takes his character in an even darker direction, and one we hadn't suspected before. Personally, I hope that's not the case; I don't want him to be that bad.

Considering the partner said he'd but a bullet in Sawyer and the girl, I'd give him a pass on that. If he'd kill them for half the take, who's to say he wouldn't kill them anyway for the other half?

If they are trying to make Sawyer into a bad, disliked character, they're failing. Even my daughters are rooting for Jack, Locke and Charlie to get knocked off eventually.

Considering the partner said he'd but a bullet in Sawyer and the girl, I'd give him a pass on that. If he'd kill them for half the take, who's to say he wouldn't kill them anyway for the other half?


Yeah, but he went ahead with the con anyway, so there really wouldn't have been any compelling need (as in self-defense) to off the guy - it still puts it into the premeditated murder category, and that's a dark place we haven't seen Sawyer go to yet.

They've left this so ambiguous, the one thing I am convinced of is that there will be another flashback down the line to flesh that backstory out.

I wonder how Sawyer survived for 6 months in um...Iowa?

Considering the partner said he'd but a bullet in Sawyer and the girl, I'd give him a pass on that. If he'd kill them for half the take, who's to say he wouldn't kill them anyway for the other half?

If they are trying to make Sawyer into a bad, disliked character, they're failing. Even my daughters are rooting for Jack, Locke and Charlie to get knocked off eventually.

I agree...and remember in Season 1 when he went to kill his supposed con-father...that was incredibly difficult for him so I doubt he would just kill off the partner and then be emotionally fine with it.

If they are trying to make Sawyer into a bad, disliked character, they're failing. Even my daughters are rooting for Jack, Locke and Charlie to get knocked off eventually.
And you're convinced their like for Sawyer has nothing to do with him walking around shirtless for half the episode? ;)

Has Sawyer called Sun "Tokyo Rose" before? That got a guffaw out of me. The Duke Ellington and Glenn Miller music that Hurley and Sayid picked up leaves open the possibility for some kind of time shift, but probably a mind game.

Yeah, this was a great episode - planting the seeds of doubt again in the minds of the Losties who have become too friendly and accustomed to each other lately.

I think even though Sawyer is a con-man, he is not really a killer. He would con people, but he won't stoop to killing them. At least that is what I feel. I got the feeling from Sawyer's first season flashback that when he mistakenly killed the guy in Australia, he was so heartbroken at killing an innocent guy that it didn't seem like he was a person who would KILL someone for money.

And I am not entirely sure if the bag Sawyer handed out to Cassidy contained fake money. All we see is that when he enters the house and tells Cassidy about the long con, we see that the money was in the suitcase, which Sawyer empties into the bag while Cassidy was facing away. But we don't know if he was emptying fake money from the suitcase into the bag (which wouldn't make sense, as Cassidy might have looked at it in the suitcase before Sawyer entered the house agitated), and handed over the bag to Cassidy in one motion. If he indeed managed to switch the bag with real money underneath the table with the bag with fake money, then it was one hell of slight of hand.

Could he have given the real money to Cassidy and slipped her out of danger through the backdoor with a promise to rendezvous at a safe place later, and then taken the bag with the "fake money props" for his next "long con" ??

Could he have given the real money to Cassidy and slipped her out of danger through the backdoor with a promise to rendezvous at a safe place later, and then taken the bag with the "fake money props" for his next "long con" ??


I agree that Sawyer did not kill his partner. He had a hard time working up the courage to kill the man he thought was responsible for his parents death, I doubt he would be very cavalier about killing off this guy.

I think the money he kept was very real. He needed it to pay off his partner. Without it, he would be dead.

And you're convinced their like for Sawyer has nothing to do with him walking around shirtless for half the episode? ;)

Maybe, but they'd still be failing at making him dis-liked.

If Kate walked around topless, they'd have a hard time getting most of us to root for her demise. Even Ana Lucia would become a "vital, must-keep" character. :)

LOL yes I'm serious. Charlie apparently has NOT been using. He didn't take the statues from Sawyer, even though he had the chance.
Probably part of their deal. Sawyer keeps the statues to keep Charlie on a short leash and Sawyer doesn't shoot him. Do you think Charlie attacked Sun for heroin or to make Locke look "stupid"?

I think Charlie's made of tougher stuff than ppl give him credit for. Although he is apparently getting 'sick' and wacked out his mind, so who knows? :-)
To me, tough men don't run around setting fires, snatching babies, and attacking women.

Besides, they have no Lady H to dangle.
Grind up any dried jungle plant, wrap it in a baggie and ask Charilie if he wants any. He will.

My guess is that he killed no one, took the money, and disappeared. That's what con artists do.

It they kill someone, the police are more likely to get involved. The people left alive, but cons themselves, and having been coned, usually lick their wounds and move on as well.

The wife would never find him again. The husband claimed revenge, but that requires more effort on his part.

That's my guess, but this is Lost, and sometimes logic does not compute...

Ed

Probably part of their deal. Sawyer keeps the statues to keep Charlie on a short leash and Sawyer doesn't shoot him. Do you think Charlie attacked Sun for heroin or to make Locke look "stupid"?


To me, tough men don't run around setting fires, snatching babies, and attacking women.


Grind up any dried jungle plant, wrap it in a baggie and ask Charilie if he wants any. He will.


Sawyer offered him the H, he refused it.

I've already gone on record saying Charlie is an ahole for doing what he did. Does that mean that tough people are always brave, nice and honorable? Two different things.

Sawyer offered him the H, he refused it.
He'll be back! Lady H doesn't give up that easily!

I've already gone on record saying Charlie is an ahole for doing what he did. Does that mean that tough people are always brave, nice and honorable? Two different things.
When they tie Charlie up and Sayid starts smacking him around like he did Sawyer last season, I find it very hard to believe that he'll refuse to tell them what he did. My guess is that he'll start sobbing like a baby and beg beg beg oh please beg for their forgiveness like he has every other episode this season.

Sawyer probably had the good sense to not let Charlie know where they are. They'll probably need to out-con Sawyer to get them back. I feel another Kate backstory episode on the way.

So, where's Michael?

I don't think anyone pointed out that the victim of Sawyer's long con - Cassidy is played by the actress who plays Joanie Stubbs on Deadwood - Kim Dickens. Y'all knew that though. Damn, I can't believe that didn't come to me. The whole show I was trying to figure out where I knew her from. She seemed a little "filled out", particularly in the face and it was just enough to throw me off the track. Just as in Deadwood, I was drawn to her right away ;).

As far as Charlie goes, I think he's getting a bum rap too. People are ragging on his actions regarding the fire, baby and now his implication in the Sawyer gun con, but he's had his reasons for everything. All the stuff about Aaron was a result of his dreams. In his mind he was saving the kid from harm. That is actually a heroic/ paternal thing if anything. I do believe he has developed a deep dislike for Locke and was simply trying to get back at him. Charlie seems the easily manipulated type and not the most clearly thinking person. But that doesn't mean he's bad necessarily. I also don't think he's been using either. There have been no direct indications that he has and my feeling is that he wants to remain clean. I think he kept the stash of statues before because they represented kind of a "security blanket" to him. Not to say he wouldn't have ever broken one open given the right circumstances though... I think his refusal of the statue from Sawyer really was telling.


ron