Apparently Sawyer's partner was in another episode in Season 1, so that wasn't the first time we saw him...

Apparently Sawyer's partner was in another episode in Season 1, so that wasn't the first time we saw him...

You're not thinking about his "original" partner, played by Robert Patrick, are you? This new guy, I don't remember...

Apparently Sawyer's partner was in another episode in Season 1, so that wasn't the first time we saw him...

Yes, seeing him in the last episode it struck me that I'd seen him before !! But I can't quite remember when and where.

Apparently Sawyer's partner was in another episode in Season 1, so that wasn't the first time we saw him...
Not according to IMDB. Kevin Dunn is the actor's name. This is his first Lost appearance, but he's been in a bunch of other shows, i.e. Law & Order.

Same with TV.com - this is the only episode in which he's listed.

was also the dad of the neighbor kid in the movie Stir of Echoes...

was also the dad of the neighbor kid in the movie Stir of Echoes...


And the White House Press Officer from 'Dave'

The Duke Ellington and Glenn Miller music that Hurley and Sayid picked up leaves open the possibility for some kind of time shift, but probably a mind game.
Also, didn't the radio announcer say "This is WXR...". This may be another clue (along with the drug-runner plane from Africa) to some kind of space-shift. Stations beginning with "W" are in the central-eastern US.

Also, didn't the radio announcer say "This is WXR...". ... Stations beginning with "W" are in the central-eastern US.

Just an obtuse bounce off the ionosphere. :D

Random radio speculation, assuming shortwave and "WXR?":

None of the 21 US stations (http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finder?call=WXR%3F&band=&country=&scope=&count=21&sort=Call&sr=1&s=C&sid=) starting with those three letters appear to fit that music format.

There doesn't seem to be a FCC authorized shortwave US broadcaster (http://ftp.fcc.gov/ib/sand/neg/hf_web/stations.html) that has a call sign like that.

It's probably a broadcaster in the lower shortwave frequencies (< 10 MHz).

Thanks for the links O2C, you're less lazy than I am ;)

Shifting topics to Sawyer/Charlie: There seems to be an overwhelming tendency here to exonerate Sawyer and crucify Charlie. Let's not forget that the entire plan, including Sun's "kidnapping", was Sawyer's.

I believe that Sawyer, although clearly having (and fighting) a basically "bad" persona, stole the guns to avoid the army, which he saw as a bad move, and is really doing it for the good of all (and most importantly, himself!). He wasn't happy with Jack and Anna Lucia thinking arming themselves and fighting was the way to go. And maybe he gave some of the money to his mark, kept the rest, and is running from his partner, as it was his only way out. Maybe he even gave his half to his partner and saved his mark, leaving nothing for him. Nobody is all bad or all good in this, they just keep playing with us by alternating the different and complex parts of each character. Black and white stones? Light and dark in backgammon pieces? We all have both parts, and "choose" different parts at different times of the "game." I like Sawyer, he's just dealing with things in the way he knows how. And I really think the brutality of the kidnapping of Sun was an accident, that neither Charlie nor Sawyer wanted that to happen. But she fought hard, and ended up hurting herself. Wasn't there some comment about her falling down? Sawyer is the most interesting character of them all. And Charlie is confused and mad at being beat up for what he thought was doing the right thing. He is not using and I suspect he won't be ever again. But now he's stuck in yet another thing to cover up. Grist for much more story!

Love this show and this thread!

Anyone remember this post #14 on 9-22-04?

This show will get real stupid fast. they already need a monster on the show because there is only so much you can do with people stranded on an island, one season and done

Anyone remember this post #14 on 9-22-04?
Quote:
Originally Posted by shades
This show will get real stupid fast. they already need a monster on the show because there is only so much you can do with people stranded on an island, one season and done
Aint that far from the truth seeing it has become a prime-time soap opera.

Random radio speculation, assuming shortwave and "WXR?":

None of the 21 US stations (http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finder?call=WXR%3F&band=&country=&scope=&count=21&sort=Call&sr=1&s=C&sid=) starting with those three letters appear to fit that music format.

There doesn't seem to be a FCC authorized shortwave US broadcaster (http://ftp.fcc.gov/ib/sand/neg/hf_web/stations.html) that has a call sign like that.

It's probably a broadcaster in the lower shortwave frequencies (< 10 MHz).
I would have to play the scene back, but I thought I heard the DJ say something about Thailand, although I'm not sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NASA guy
Anyone remember this post #14 on 9-22-04?
Quote:
Originally Posted by shades
This show will get real stupid fast. they already need a monster on the show because there is only so much you can do with people stranded on an island, one season and done


Aint that far from the truth seeing it has become a prime-time soap opera.

Looks like shades last post here was back in Nov. '04 #1849.

Regarding the clock count-down; they're likely saving that issue for the cliff-hanger ep at the end of the season. It's probably only a (day)dream sequence as already mentioned.

BTW, I bet shades hasn't missed a single ep.

shades, are you out there?

Did anyone else notice that the waitress serving Sawyer and his partner was Kate's mother?

Maybe someone can help me out here. Got an emergency phone call and had to miss the last 15 minutes of the episode, where based upon what I'm piecing together by reading here, a lot was said or happened. Could someone provide me with a synopsis of what occurred or was said, cause it seems like there were some key developments in that part.

I wouldn't consider this a spoiler since its already aired, but if you feel it necessary, use spoiler alerts. Thamks

_____________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

good synopsis on abc's lost site
http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/episodes/212.html

ps - good to see you posting not as an exclusive bluray troll ;)

good synopsis on abc's lost site
http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/episodes/212.html

ps - good to see you posting not as an exclusive bluray troll ;)
And the same here with regard to your status as an exclusive HD DVD troll. ;)

Looked at that site, and there was relatively little about those last 15 mins., and I see people posting here about Charlie either involved in the guns switch or the kidnapping of Sun. So is that all speculation at this point, or did they show anything to support it?

______________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Charlie talked about with Sawyer.

And the same here with regard to your status as an exclusive HD DVD troll. ;)

Looked at that site, and there was relatively little about those last 15 mins., and I see people posting here about Charlie either involved in the guns switch or the kidnapping of Sun. So is that all speculation at this point, or did they show anything to support it?

______________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind
He was involved in both. He kidnapped Sun at Sawyers prodding so that the group would get riled up and get the guns and go hunting. Sawyer also played Kate by suggesting that AL might be involved in the kidnapping. Sawyer goes to warn Locke that the vigilantes are on their way to get some guns so Locke decides to move them. Unknown to Locke Charlie is watching where he hides the guns. Telling Sawyer, Sawyer then moves the guns to a place only he knows. When Jack confronts Locke about the guns Locke gets philosophical with him about whether it's a good idea to have people running around the jungle shooting at people. Sawyer the fires off a gun, walks onto the beach and proclaims that he has them all and that there is a new "sheriff in town" and if anyone wants a gun they have to go through him.

I'm willing to bet that Charlie kept a gun or 2 for himself aswell. If it was me I would have kept me 2 handguns, just incase Sawyer got all insane on everyone.

He was involved in both. He kidnapped Sun at Sawyers prodding so that the group would get riled up and get the guns and go hunting. Sawyer also played Kate by suggesting that AL might be involved in the kidnapping. Sawyer goes to warn Locke that the vigilantes are on their way to get some guns so Locke decides to move them. Unknown to Locke Charlie is watching where he hides the guns. Telling Sawyer, Sawyer then moves the guns to a place only he knows. When Jack confronts Locke about the guns Locke gets philosophical with him about whether it's a good idea to have people running around the jungle shooting at people. Sawyer the fires off a gun, walks onto the beach and proclaims that he has them all and that there is a new "sheriff in town" and if anyone wants a gun they have to go through him.
Thanks Keenan. Seems like I missed some of the best stuff in what was a very good episode. Now I see why they played up the "con" aspect of Sawyer's past as the backstory for this ep. Maybe he should be the one who does the 'negotiating' with the 'Others'. :)

________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Yeah, but not the fighting, he keeps getting beat by girls.

Not according to IMDB. Kevin Dunn is the actor's name. This is his first Lost appearance, but he's been in a bunch of other shows, i.e. Law & Order.

According to the Lost blogger:
Right now we need to take a diversion into Backstory Land. This episode provided us with another glimpse into Sawyer's seedy history. In previous Sawyer-centric episodes like "Outlaws" and "Confidence Man" we discovered the genesis of Sawyer's career and his name (remember, his real name is James Ford; "Sawyer" is an alias) and we learned that Sawyer's speciality was theft through seduction. We also learned that Sawyer is racked by guilt and has a weird need to be hated. This week, we drop in on Sawyer mid-con (and mid-guilt). Got all that?

http://www.filmfodder.com/tv/lost/archives/002227.shtml

Seems like I missed some of the best stuff in what was a very good episode. Now I see why they played up the "con" aspect of Sawyer's past as the backstory for this ep. Maybe he should be the one who does the 'negotiating' with the 'Others'. :) The ep only showed what a con he is....and he's a very good one. But why he needs all the guns is beyond me. Sawyer negotiating on behalf of the group would be a death sentence for everyone. We already know he can't shoot worth a frak.

He doesn't really want to be in charge - he's more concerned with not being at the mercy of Jack and Locke being in charge.

I hate to do it...but I love her:

http://lax.war3.com/lilly/evangeline-lilly-1680x1050-22396.jpg

http://lax.war3.com/lilly/evangeline-lilly-1680x1050-22393.jpg

Mmmmmm - Evie....droool...

Am i the only one who caught Sawyer wearing his Dharma shoes? (28.00 mins/secs in before he pushes the button). I took a screenshot so you guys can see them too. I wonder if Dharma has him in their pocket and he conned the guns away from Locke for a reason. Either he works for dharma or he got them in the hatch or off one of the bodies or something. I just thought it was interesting that's all.

http://img154.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sawyersdharmashoes2jb.jpg

He doesn't really want to be in charge - he's more concerned with not being at the mercy of Jack and Locke being in charge.

As usual, CPanther is the voice of reason! Sawyer's got a bad streak, but he's mostly into self-preservation. He lets the people do their own thing until it gets out of hand, then he has to take things into his own hands, the only way he knows how. Hording all the supplies early on was just his way of having a certain level of control, albeit a very anti-social way to do it. He's not exactly a trusting kind of fellow.

The Others aren't looking for a battle, they "let them live" on the island, they just don't want their territory and their secrets to be found out. And clearly they have the upper hand. Creating an army is suicide, and Sawyer did what he had to to stop the insanity. The sheriff keeps the peace, after all!

P.S. I note a lot of "hand" references here. One more - I think we've got to hand it to Sawyer for his ingenuity! (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

Am i the only one who caught Sawyer wearing his Dharma shoes? (28.00 mins/secs in before he pushes the button). I took a screenshot so you guys can see them too.
http://img154.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sawyersdharmashoes2jb.jpg
Sorry, but that just does not look like the Darma logo to me. I've got boots with a round logo on the bottom too, and they are not Darma. :p

Sorry, but that just does not look like the Darma logo to me. I've got boots with a round logo on the bottom too, and they are not Darma. :p

Not the round circular shapes toward the top of the shoe, I wasn't reffering to them because they obviously aren't the sign. The big white Dharma octagon with a bit of dirt over it about half way down the shoe. That's the Dharma logo, that's what I was reffering too, not the 2 circles.

I just got the feeling they wanted us to see the symbol for some reason because the scene started with it zoomed in on the logo on his shoes, then the alarm started beeping, it was kind of irrelevant.

Not the round circular shapes toward the top of the shoe. The big white Dharma octagon with a bit of dirt over it about half way down the shoe. That's the Dharma logo, that's what I was reffering too, not the 2 circles.I know. Still looks more like my shoe than the Darma logo.

I'm not seeing it either....

According to the Lost blogger:
http://www.filmfodder.com/tv/lost/archives/002227.shtml
From that same site: The manuscript Hurley's reading is "The Bad Twin" by "Gary Troup." Rearrange the letters in "Gary Troup" and you get purgatory. Probably just another writers-gigging-the-obsessed-fan in-joke.

So, where's Michael?

Good question. I suspect we'll see him again before the end of this season, but he doesn't seem to be the focus of the writers at the moment.

For that matter, where's Desmond? He didn't take much with him when he bailed out of the Hatch other than a supply of that mystery injectible. He's gotta have water and food and a place out of the rain to sleep...

Good question. I suspect we'll see him again before the end of this season, but he doesn't seem to be the focus of the writers at the moment.

For that matter, where's Desmond? He didn't take much with him when he bailed out of the Hatch other than a supply of that mystery injectible. He's gotta have water and food and a place out of the rain to sleep...


I don't mind not seeing much of "Where is my booooyyyyy" Michael (at least not unless it will move the story along significantly).

I'm sure Desmond is making out fine on the island, since it seems most of the other inhabitants are doing okay without the benefit of a 1970's bunker. Unless he has made it off the island some how.

Here Here! I hate the Michael character. He can rot in the jungle for all I care. He's a spoiled brat that needs a good beat down by the others to make him grow up.

Naveen Andrews on GMA this morning. He's listed as "actress Naveen Andrews" in the on-screen guide.

Locke's going to find those weapons. How far away can they be? It's possible that Sawyer moved them back into the room but then it would only be a matter of time before they got them back out. Dirty, wet, jamming, weapons would be useless, so I doubt Sawyer would bury them.

Paul

Naveen Andrews on GMA this morning. He's listed as "actress Naveen Andrews".

Uh oh. Somebody's going to get tortured over that.

Naveen Andrews on GMA this morning. He's listed as "actress Naveen Andrews".


must be the hair :D

Off topic, but funny insight on how electronic commucation is often misinterpreted. Seems to happen quite often on here...maybe we need sarcasm and irony tags :-)

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,70179-0.html?tw=wn_index_2

Off topic, but funny insight on how electronic commucation is often misinterpreted. Seems to happen quite often on here...maybe we need sarcasm and irony tags :-)

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,70179-0.html?tw=wn_index_2


What do you mean we need tags?? I don't like your tone!! ;) ;)

Yeah, fanboy, apologist! :eek: Er, what's an irony smilie look like? :D

This photo has sparked pregnancy rumors:

http://cdn.digitalcity.com/ch_tmz_photos/evangeline_lilly_365x500.jpg

That' ain't "being in a family way"; it's just bad posture in an unguarded moment. Besides, if 'Kate' got preggers, the angry producers would probably fire 'Charlie'. ;)

It certainly isn't convincing, but I think what is fueling the rumor is "Charlie's" recent comments that he really wants to start a family with her.

It certainly isn't convincing, but I think what is fueling the rumor is "Charlie's" recent comments that he really wants to start a family with her.

Did anybody watch Evy's "pre-Lost fame" "late-night dating service ads" ?? I was watching some show late at night recently, and as usual, there were these ads for dating services and 1-900 hotlines.. and :eek: there was Evy hawking in one of those ads.. Of course, she looked as beautiful as usual, but I realized how big of a break Lost is/was for her career !!

Yeah, they've been on since Lost has been on the air (Hotlines?). I recently saw a "new" one though - they must have had it in the can or just did a re-edit of existing footage.

This photo has sparked pregnancy rumors:

http://cdn.digitalcity.com/ch_tmz_photos/evangeline_lilly_365x500.jpg

nawww.....

http://lax.war3.com/lilly/evangeline-lilly-1680x1050-22393.jpg

http://lax.war3.com/lilly/evangeline-lilly-1600x1200-22013.jpg

:D

we all know Hobbits can't have babies...anyways, she's saving herself for me...

lax01, it would be nice if you could re-size or at least crop those pics, thanks

but then how are people going to use them for their desktops? :D

sorry, I can't resize them but if I post anymore, I won't make them any bigger than 800x600

That's fine, it's just that at 1024x768 the subject of the photo is off the screen and you have to scroll over to see it, plus, you can't get her full image on the screen either. No big deal.

heh new page anyways....:)

and this is AVS! Everyone here should at least have a resolution of 1600x1200 :D

and this is AVS! Everyone here should at least have a resolution of 1600x1200 :D

No, 1920x1080



Chad

No, 1920x1080



Chad
Not if you subscribe to DSS. ;)

And by the way, the intended message was sarcasm. I figured I'd bump up the percentage a bit. I don't want 50% of you to get the wrong message like stated in that article posted earlier.... :D

The next first-run episode of Lost, after tonight, is March 1st, so ABC will be killing us with reruns for the next two weeks. Hopefully we get a good episode tonight as a sendoff until March

Actually it is only one week of reruns. Next week is Feb 22 and the following Wed is March 1.

Reruns in the middle of sweeps?

What is the matter, they run out of more backstory ideas about Sawyer and Kate's criminal pasts or Jack's Florence Nightengale syndrome? :p

So, with a break coming up, we can expect a cliffhanger ending to tonight's episode. But for some reason, my bets are that the "clock winding down to zero" will not be the cliffhanger.

wtf? Next week is a repeat of the 2 hour series pilot.

Next week is the original two hour pilot episode.

Actually it is only one week of reruns. Next week is Feb 22 and the following Wed is March 1.

Its a repeat because ABC is too affraid to go up against Idol and the Olympics....at least that was the word on all the TV-news sites when they announced it last week...I doubt its a cliff-hanger ending since I don't think they planned this....totally weak, lame move on ABC's part

wtf? Next week is a repeat of the 2 hour series pilot.

That's okay with me. I haven't seen the pilot in HD yet.

That's okay with me. I haven't seen the pilot in HD yet.
Then you're in for a real treat. It was visually stunning and the sound track was pretty good too.

Then you're in for a real treat. It was visually stunning and the sound track was pretty good too.

I saw a special on Lost once and it revealed that the soundtrack is done every week with a live full orchestra. I may be wrong but I don't think that's common.

I saw a special on Lost once and it revealed that the soundtrack is done every week with a live full orchestra. I may be wrong but I don't think that's common.

I read the same, pretty cool.

Its a repeat because ABC is too affraid to go up against Idol and the Olympics.... totally weak, lame move on ABC's partI don't see what the big deal is. It's not like you're going to miss out on any ep or anything. Look at the bright side, it just means you'll see one less repeat later in the season. :p


ron

I saw a special on Lost once and it revealed that the soundtrack is done every week with a live full orchestra. I may be wrong but I don't think that's common.I dunno......some of that string music while well composed, sounds a bit stale....like someone is playing back samples from a stack of keyboards. I wonder if only certain scenes are scored with actual instruments.

I saw a special on Lost once and it revealed that the soundtrack is done every week with a live full orchestra. I may be wrong but I don't think that's common.

I dunno......some of that string music while well composed, sounds a bit stale....like someone is playing back samples from a stack of keyboards. I wonder if only certain scenes are scored with actual instruments.

It is fully orchestrated music in Lost. To my knowledge, the only other television program that uses fully orchestrated music (like most theatrical films do) is Alias. Both shows feature original scores composed and conducted by Michael Giacchino. Some notable film scores that he has done include The Incredibles, The Family Stone and Jurassic Park: The Lost World. He is currently writing and orchestrating the music for the upcoming film Mission: Impossible III, which J.J. Abrams is writing and directing.

:( Staring at a two-hour "Idol" and The Olympics, ABC...on that night (Feb. 22) is airing a rerun of the "Lost" pilot instead of a new episode because, as ABC scheduling chief Jeff Bader told the Associated Press, "there are certain programming combinations that you don't want to go up against -- we're better off saving an original."

The Winter Olympics will face a mess of "Idol" over its 16 days. Seven hours on five nights, to be exact, including the usual two hours next week, plus expanded two-hour editions Feb. 21 and Feb. 22..

Boy, Fox is using American Idol as a pretty big club with which to bludgeon their competition this year. All these expanded 2-hr editions, multiple nights, extra nights.... the term "piling on" comes to mind...

This may backfire on them if the audience feels over-saturated, but not likely. That audience is fiercely loyal and has grown substantially this year. For reasons that elude me; seems awfully repetitive. I sure wouldn't give up Lost or any other good teledrama for it.

good cause I watch American Idol as well. So I respect ABC for not trying to conflict

Wow. . . look at her now. You can't tell me she's not pregnant.

http://www.rmwhome.com/Imagescurrent/kate.gif

Thanks, that's funny.

Boy, Fox is using American Idol as a pretty big club with which to bludgeon their competition this year. All these expanded 2-hr editions, multiple nights, extra nights.... the term "piling on" comes to mind...

This may backfire on them if the audience feels over-saturated, but not likely. That audience is fiercely loyal and has grown substantially this year. For reasons that elude me; seems awfully repetitive. I sure wouldn't give up Lost or any other good teledrama for it.

I vaguely remember "Who Wants to be a Millionaire" doing the same thing at its peak before fading.

I dont watch many network shows regularly, but the way Lost keeps throwing repeats in and the 80 commercial breaks per episode is extremely annoying. Without DVR, I probably wouldnt bother.

Wow. . . look at her now. You can't tell me she's not pregnant.

http://www.rmwhome.com/Imagescurrent/kate.gif

Dude, you're they guy who made her that way? Studly!

Wow!

something serious was about to be launched...

OK..just what were those symbols when the countdown clock went to zeros??

a missle was one

Wow, what was all that red on the clock, the other stations? And something mechanical was going on.

Nice new teakettle --- to go with the new washer and dryer!

They looked like Hieroglyphics to me.

I guess it's 108 minutes and change.

Another answer that doesn't answer and just brings up more questions. Piecemeal by piecemeal we're given a story that would probably be a pretty enthralling little short story or novella. Getting a piece of that story once every 3 months is pretty frustrating, though.

Love Sayid in this episode, though.

that was a photo of Kate right?

Weird visual in Iraq: computer graphics? Surreal, prestine blacktop highway.

that was a photo of Kate right?

yeah, that was Kate's dad.

Damn, I didn't know tonight was going to be a new episode. I assumed with the Olympics it would be a rerun.

Anybody care to post a synposis?

The symbols on the clock looked similar to the symbol of the swan... looked like one was a duck and another a spear/torpedo/missile.

With that preview alluding to Claire's abduction and memory suppression on the island, that kinda supports my suspicion that they were all abducted, the crash staged, and are being observed by the Dharma folks.

that was a photo of Kate right?

What part was this?

"My name is Sayid, and I am a torturer."*ahem* My name is rezzy, and I too, am a torturer.

For a minute there, I thought Hurley was gonna tell Sawyer to frak-off.

They looked like Hieroglyphics to me.

So how did they DO that??? Or did Locke "imagine" it?

holy crap...good episode

Between Clancy Brown and Kate's fake dad reoccurance....lots of good subplot details


what completely and utterly pisses me off is that the countdown isn't really a countdown...I mean, if its counting-down to something, why would John be able to reset it? It doesn't make anysense...its like contradicting the point of the countdown...its not a countdown if its not counting DOWN to a certain time...I dunno, that bugged me since its a cheap Hollywood trick...oh well, two weeks and we'll see more of another Dharma hatch = w00t

Anybody care to post a synposis?

Quit reading the thread and download it on iTunes tomorrow :)

So the clock from the preview was not even in the show, or was shadowed to make it look like it had no seconds, or something.

Overall, a good ep, but I think to much time on the whole frog thing. I also wouldn't have expected AL to follow orders like that.

The symbols on the clock looked similar to the symbol of the swan... looked like one was a duck and another a spear/torpedo/missile.

With that preview alluding to Claire's abduction and memory suppression on the island, that kinda supports my suspicion that they were all abducted, the crash staged, and are being observed by the Dharma folks.

Well in Season 1 Claire got kidnapped remember? and they took her for a week or so (Sayid foreshadowing in tonight's episode)...it appears they find the place where they took her in the episode in two weeks...who knows though...

Its a repeat because ABC is too affraid to go up against Idol and the Olympics....at least that was the word on all the TV-news sites when they announced it last week...I doubt its a cliff-hanger ending since I don't think they planned this....totally weak, lame move on ABC's part

So why was tonigh a new episode then, up against the Olympics?

They looked like Hieroglyphics to me.

That's what my daughter said, she's looking them up.

Staff = S = "Folded Cloth" or "Health"
**Not Shown**
Drill = ja (pronunciation) = "Drill for starting fires"
Bird = A (Egyptian Vulture)
Twig? = ???

Quit reading the thread and download it on iTunes tomorrow :)

So the clock from the preview was not even in the show, or was shadowed to make it look like it had no seconds, or something.

Overall, a good ep, but I think to much time on the whole frog thing. I also wouldn't have expected AL to follow orders like that.

it was in the preview and the show....it looked identical...the clock striked 000:00

My Wife mentioned she thought the symbols looked Egyptian as well; reminded her of Majahn tiles.

Oh, and I was wondering what had become of Brother Justin since Carnivalve got cancelled.

Overall, a good ep, but I think to much time on the whole frog thing.

I thought it was pretty good "filler" myself. Didn't think he'd kill the frog though. I can just see all of the tree huggers goin' nuts over that!

Oh, and I was wondering what had become of Brother Justin since Carnivalve got cancelled.

haha, I yelled BROTHA JUSTIN when he came on screen...I hope he has more parts in more of Sayid's future flashbacks (hah, thats funny)...awesome actor...

Thanks! I forgot that they were doing that.

Quit reading the thread and download it on iTunes tomorrow :)

haha i got the same feeling when i watched it, he is perfect for lost cause carnivale was soo enthralling. deep story lines and such. i liked how they used him as a plot device and foreshadowing his current situation. who this the dude from minn. is an "other"? ha they must sound so crazy, imagine yoru that guy, people tlaking about others, your in some hatch on an island. crazy, but the fever his wife died of is similar to what danielle was speaking of. interesting

Oh, and I was wondering what had become of Brother Justin since Carnivalve got cancelled.

Me too. I hope they don't end 'LOST' the way they did Carnivale. They should have at least had a 2-hour wrap-up episode for that excellent series.

So why was tonigh a new episode then, up against the Olympics?

Its not the "good Olympics" and American Idol isn't on to steal viewers away...

Quit reading the thread and download it on iTunes tomorrow :)

So the clock from the preview was not even in the show, or was shadowed to make it look like it had no seconds, or something.

Overall, a good ep, but I think to much time on the whole frog thing. I also wouldn't have expected AL to follow orders like that.
the clock was in the show, it hit all 0's then went to the crazy sign thing. They did that same thing once before on a canadian preview, showed the clock at all 0's, next week lock hit it exactly as it hit 0 so it technically wasnt a lie, just decieving.

The photo of Kate was shown to Sayid while he was being transported by Marines. At least it looked a lot like Kate.

The new Dharma hatch looks like a medical facility. The symbol looked like that of the "medicinal staff". They also flashed the stenciled words "ESCAPE HATCH" in the previews too. Why would a bunker have an escape hatch and not just an exit?

btw, wasn't the team from the Dharma video from University of Minnesota?

any screen shots of the graphics on the clock? Here is a link to some Heiroglyphics: http://www.jimloy.com/hiero/yourname.gif

The photo of Kate was shown to Sayid while he was being transported by Marines. At least it looked a lot like Kate.

The new Dharma hatch looks like a medical facility. The symbol looked like that of the "medicinal staff". They also flashed the stenciled words "ESCAPE HATCH" in the previews too. Why would a bunker have an escape hatch and not just an exit?
yea definatly had a medical sign, and i did see the escape hatch thing, escape hatches are usually in airplanes or submarines or something, no? you wouldnt need to escape a room or bunker or cave, you just walk out of it. Does anybody buy that guys hot air baloon story?? ?Who the hell flies a hot air balloon across the world like that, although he did manage to answer all of syed's questions re: the balloon and everythign else.

any screen shots of the graphics on the clock? Here is a link to some Heiroglyphics: http://www.jimloy.com/hiero/yourname.gif

No rockets though.

first one is a C fourth one is a A cant find the other

Who the hell flies a hot air balloon across the world like that, although he did manage to answer all of syed's questions re: the balloon and everythign else.

A couple of people have done/attempted to do it.....although when they do it they have a crew of people the follow their progress to rescue them should something go wrong.

Does anybody buy that guys hot air baloon story?? ?Who the hell flies a hot air balloon across the world like that, although he did manage to answer all of syed's questions re: the balloon and everythign else.

um Desmond?

That's what my daughter said, she's looking them up.

Staff = S = "Folded Cloth" or "Health"
**Not Shown**
Drill = ja (pronunciation) = "Drill for starting fires"
Bird = A (Egyptian Vulture)
Twig? = ???

This is the closest I could get.

the clock was in the show, it hit all 0's then went to the crazy sign thing. They did that same thing once before on a canadian preview, showed the clock at all 0's, next week lock hit it exactly as it hit 0 so it technically wasnt a lie, just decieving.

Well according to this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7098545&&#post7098545) they appear to be two different clocks; they don't show the seconds, but the clock looks like it has an edge to the right of the third digit that isn't there in the real clock.

As far as the reset happening after the zero countdown; maybe that's because he caught it right at zero, or maybe it takes some time for whatever happens next, and this is reversible (mechanical noises/movements, etc).

As far as the "Minnesota" guy; he seems to be lying to me; but maybe that's just a writer's re-direction.

No rockets though.

I personally don't think that any of them were supposed to be rockets/missles.

btw, wasn't the team from the Dharma video from University of Minnesota?

I thought they were from the University of Michigan... (Go Blue!)

Well according to this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7098545&&#post7098545) they appear to be two different clocks; they don't show the seconds, but the clock looks like it has an edge to the right of the third digit that isn't there in the real clock.

As far as the reset happening after the zero countdown; maybe that's because he caught it right at zero, or maybe it takes some time for whatever happens next, and this is reversible (mechanical noises/movements, etc).

As far as the "Minnesota" guy; he seems to be lying to me; but maybe that's just a writer's re-direction.

it appears that after 000:00, the rest of the numbers flipped over and went to black and then went to the strange hieroglypics...which would explain why there is only one "0"

According to that link to the alphabet in the previous post, couldn't the first one be a "C", "S", or "X"?

I thought they were from the University of Michigan... (Go Blue!)

heh could be...trying to find the movie to see

Does it spell Sayid?

screenshot: http://www.realmcrafter.com/media/lost.jpg

heh could be...trying to find the movie to see

yeah it was Michigan

Does it spell Sayid?

Sure, if you get rid of the ja & add a Y - I - D. ;)

I thought that "rocket" looking symbol was a flame, btw. Sort of like a candle flame.

Good episode tonight.

I personally don't think that any of them were supposed to be rockets/missles.

What's the one on the right?

clock (http://www.billtilghman.com/lost.html)

With the oil wells burning in the background, it was pretty much a given this was 1991 Iraq. But dude just had to unmentionably mention the dictator for those that weren't paying attention. And he almost sounded as if the battle was strictly over his downed pilot.

I thought that "rocket" looking symbol was a flame, btw. Sort of like a candle flame.

It's the symbol for a fire starting drill.

Full clock shot is first, and then look at the first character in the second picture (paused by accident during the "reset")...

So what's the one on the right?

clock (http://www.billtilghman.com/lost.html)

Couldn't find that one.

After it starts to reset, there's the symbol for a reed which is an I or Y and what looks like the symbol for a "seated man" or "man carrying basket".

Full clock shot is first, and then look at the first character in the second picture (paused by accident during the "reset"

Second shot looks like "seated child" or possibly "man carrying basket"

What the heck is AAA doing all this time? I know these episodes focus only on a few people, but can't they at least show more of the cast every episode? Just show him for ten seconds getting a drink of water or something. Kind of like they showed Anna at the beginning of this episode. Even on Star Trek at least they showed Scottie running the transporter every episode.

At first I was watching the second to last digit to see if it was like one of those "flip books" where you would see still images "move". Then when they all stopped except for the second digit, I figured it was the glyphs as previously mentioned spelling something out. That "man" image was splashed a few times in a the other digit places if you watch frame by frame.

Anyway, the look of that "other" at the end to sayid was pretty creepy.

Anyway, the look of that "other" at the end to sayid was pretty creepy.

Indeed!

If only Locke had let the computer go, the clock would have finished turning, and a Stargate would have popped up.

The photo of Kate was shown to Sayid while he was being transported by Marines. At least it looked a lot like Kate.

It was Kate, a picture held by her not-actual father, but he didn't show it to Sayid that I remember. He was just holding it, looking at it on the other side of the truck; asked Sayid if he was married or had kids, and when Sayid said no, the camera panned over to the picture the "dad" was looking at so we could see it was a snapshot of Kate. I'm pretty sure Sayid didn't see it, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Absoutely awesome eposide. Great tension and drama at the end. I thought the mechanical sound when the clock counted down was blast doors shutting. I wonder why the clock from the previews never showed up. Well at least we know something will happen if the timer is not reset.

Here we go...was that picture of Kate actually the soldier with the scar on is nose or could it be the pilot who was executed? Sayid said he would take them to the body. Maybe they pulled it off of him and was bringing it back. Thoughts? Or am I forgetting something Kate said before and this is known? I really wish they would stop this new episode every other week crap! :p

It was a picture of Kate at 10 or 12 (timeline matches).

And drsimnal beat me to the punch with the gate address gag.

very disappointed that the counter went to zero and locke was still able to reset it..

Was it just me, or watching the beginning of this episode, did Rousseau look just like the hot woman, Mary, from Christmas Vacation, only a bit older? "Tis the season to be merry.... well that's MY name... no sh!t!"
http://www.zlatna.com/celebration/Images/Lost/LPub_003.jpg http://pages.cthome.net/digimstie/nsxmas24c.jpg

very disappointed that the counter went to zero and locke was still able to reset it..

As I think was mentioned; even though the counter went to zero; the next step seemed to be a "mechanical noises accompanied by hyroglyphic slot machine"; which didn't quite finish; one character hadn't shown up when Locke reset. So possibly if he had waited for that to happen it wouldn't have allowed the reset.

Then again, maybe not :D

Well, I guess we all know now why Hurley hasn't lost any weight. And what kind of special ingredients are in that ranch dip to allow it to be nonrefrigerated for 7 years?!? And as usual loved Sawyer's nicknames (although Hurley actually took offense tonight). I wonder if there is a site that has all his nicknames compiled. That would be a funny read.

Who the hell flies a hot air balloon across the world like that, although he did manage to answer all of syed's questions re: the balloon and everythign else.

It has been done, but if you listen to the guy's description he stated the balloon was 144 feet tall and some width that I don't recall if I heard correctly. As a hot air balloon owner there is no way a balloon that size would fly that high, my average every day type of balloon is 70' tall. I should have kept the episode on my TiVo to go back and hear the description again, maybe someone can post it?

Well, I guess we all know now why Hurley hasn't lost any weight. And what kind of special ingredients are in that ranch dip to allow it to be nonrefrigerated for 7 years?!? And as usual loved Sawyer's nicknames (although Hurley actually took offense tonight). I wonder if there is a site that has all his nicknames compiled. That would be a funny read.

Lots of stuff has long shelf life --if it's not opened -- I suggest Hurley should eat that quickly or he could be sorry.

It has been done, but if you listen to the guy's description he stated the balloon was 144 feet tall and some width that I don't recall if I heard correctly. As a hot air balloon owner there is no way a balloon that size would fly that high, my average every day type of balloon is 70' tall. I should have kept the episode on my TiVo to go back and hear the description again, maybe someone can post it?

He was talking about a different kind of balloon than your every-day hot air variety. He specifically mentioned it used mostly helium and that they were on a very long trip. So I think this is more of the kind like you see NASA using, or those rich dudes who try to fly around the planet at high altitude.

He was talking about a different kind of balloon than your every-day hot air variety. He specifically mentioned it used mostly helium and that they were on a very long trip. So I think this is more of the kind like you see NASA using, or those rich dudes who try to fly around the planet at high altitude.

I'm aware of that but he also said it was helium and Hot Air, and that size is tiny compared to the actual balloons that have done the around the world flight. To do this you have to have a pressurized cabin.

As I mention, I wish I still that that segment so i could listen to it again.

Well, I guess we all know now why Hurley hasn't lost any weight. And what kind of special ingredients are in that ranch dip to allow it to be nonrefrigerated for 7 years?!? And as usual loved Sawyer's nicknames (although Hurley actually took offense tonight). I wonder if there is a site that has all his nicknames compiled. That would be a funny read.

Ask and you shall receive. I don't know if it is updated or how current it is kept, but almost every name they have been called is here...with sound.

http://www.losthatch.com/nicknames.aspx

From looking at the screenshot of the clock (http://www.realmcrafter.com/media/lost.jpg), I found this (http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/Alyson3783/hieroglyphs.jpg) on another site.

Not sure what it really means though.

Weird visual in Iraq: computer graphics? Surreal, prestine blacktop highway.
Yes, CG and green screen.

Clancy Brown was great as the CIA spook.

From looking at the screenshot of the clock (http://www.realmcrafter.com/media/lost.jpg), I found this (http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/Alyson3783/hieroglyphs.jpg) on another site.

Not sure what it really means though.

where was the 2nd image taken from? I know I remember seeing heirogylphics someone else in the Lost verse....I just don't remember where...

Here we go...was that picture of Kate actually the soldier with the scar on is nose or could it be the pilot who was executed? Sayid said he would take them to the body. Maybe they pulled it off of him and was bringing it back. Thoughts? Or am I forgetting something Kate said before and this is known? I really wish they would stop this new episode every other week crap! :p


The officer with the picture was the same man Kate visited at the recruiting office that she referred to as dad.

I laughed at the image of Hurley's turtle running away.

sawyer called him Barbar and some other name that I didn't catch.

first one is a C fourth one is a A cant find the other

I bet the hieroglyphics message says "Be sure to drink your ovaltine".

From looking at the screenshot of the clock (http://www.realmcrafter.com/media/lost.jpg), I found this (http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/Alyson3783/hieroglyphs.jpg) on another site.

Not sure what it really means though.

Interesting...

Where did that come from? Is it on a Lost-specific site? It could certainly be the entire sequence...but what is "swd3 caus. die"?

Great episode.

Although the "other" was pretty convincing, Sayid is going with his gut - I think the look he gave him after Jack pulled him off sealed it in his mind.

They should go look for his wife's body as well. Pretty convienient to have a torturer on your team. I like how the American officer at the end told Sayid some day he would need to know some information, and now he knows how to get it.

Great episode.

Although the "other" was pretty convincing, Sayid is going with his gut - I think the look he gave him after Jack pulled him off sealed it in his mind.

They should go look for his wife's body as well. Pretty convienient to have a torturer on your team. I like how the American officer at the end told Sayid some day he would need to know some information, and now he knows how to get it.

A bit of a stretch that after the beating Sayid handed out the guy seemed only to be roughed up a bit. What's up with that? And Sayid still didn't get any definitive information.

sawyer called him Barbar and some other name that I didn't catch.

'Rerun' (from 'What's Happening')

A bit of a stretch that after the beating Sayid handed out the guy seemed only to be roughed up a bit. What's up with that? And Sayid still didn't get any definitive information.

I believe Sayid, the torturer, cracked. He had his subject ready to talk when he pulled the pliers out and started the grave digging line of questioning. Then the 'other?' got in Sayid's head with the whole Shannon flashback. Once Sayid got emotional, the torture session for information's sake turned into a beating session for Shannon's sake.

Sayid learned nothing. Excellent episode though.

I'm finished with this show. Yes, even despite the time investment over the last couple of years.

Last night was the final straw...

Sorry, but Sayid did not become a torturer in the Iraqi Army because the US seduced him into it. I'm pretty confident that no member of Saddam's special security forces needed any additional inducement or training from the US. This is Hollywood and ABC at its most disgusting....get lost, Lost.

sawyer called him Barbar and some other name that I didn't catch.

Sawyer called him Babar: http://members.iinet.net.au/~rabbit/babar.htm

Con man, Watership Down and Babar. Sawyer has some interesting layers.

Sorry, but Sayid did not become a torturer in the Iraqi Army because the US seduced him into it. I'm pretty confident that no member of Saddam's special security forces needed any additional inducement or training from the US. This is Hollywood and ABC at its most disgusting....get lost, Lost.

It's a show, dude, not a documentary. Get a grip.

http://lost.cubit.net/pics/2x14/glyphs.jpg

Translated this means CAUSATIVE DIE, or roughly CAUSE TO DIE...

Thought it was a great episode. I wonder if Sayid would have tortured his squad's leader if the guy originally stood up and said he was the leader. It seemed Sayid lost a lot of respect for him (who wouldn't?) when he didn't stand up. That made his comments to Sayid to take his own life all the more ironic, as Sayid was the one who stood up and probably saved his entire squad.

ABC really needs to tell us when Kate is not going to be in an episode! Especially if they are going to show Hurley eating.

Weird visual in Iraq: computer graphics? Surreal, prestine blacktop highway.Of course it was computer graphics. It had to be some of the most hideous background this show has ever had. It looked so fake, even my wife commented about it, and she thought Spiderman 2 looked "realistic".

*waits for Lost writers to make fun of the heiroglyphics deciphering on the boards* ;)

I was thinking that this guy they found might possibly be Desmond's patner? (Similar story about balloning and unexplained death of companion)...probably a stretch but the stories seem incredibly close...

Sayid may not have gotten info. this session. But that look from the prisoner convinced Sayid he was an Other. That is why he doesn't feel guilty.

Oh and I didn't notice it but Clancy Brown character is actually Kate's father? He was looking at snapshots of her?

Hmm, another crumb they dropped to perk up our interests. How and when are they going to explain all these coincidences between these survivors who'd never knew each other before that plane?

Or is it just another crumb in an elaborate goose chase?

Anyway, the look of that "other" at the end to sayid was pretty creepy.

indeed. the minnesota guy had me convinced up until they showed his evil stare. Now I agree that he's become an "Other" like Ethan

haha, I yelled BROTHA JUSTIN when he came on screen...I hope he has more parts in more of Sayid's future flashbacks (hah, thats funny)...awesome actor...

You see Brother Justin, I see Mr. Krabs. I told my kids this morning that Mr. Krabs was on one of mommy and daddy's shows last night and they want to watch. They were not happy to hear that wasn't going to happen.

Let me ask you this question. Sayid and Locke both knew Jack would go ballistic if he found out about the torture that was going to take place in the armory. (I think they can rename that now, btw, since an armory needs weapons to be such, but I digress.) So why not wait a couple minutes for Jack to leave the area before locking Sayid in the vault and commencing with the torture? It's not like Minnesota was lucid enough that he was going to high-tail it out of there.

And Sayid's torture has nothing on Jack Bauer's. Come on, suppress the emotion and get the job done! Jack would be horrified. :)

Well, I guess we all know now why Hurley hasn't lost any weight. And what kind of special ingredients are in that ranch dip to allow it to be nonrefrigerated for 7 years?!? And as usual loved Sawyer's nicknames (although Hurley actually took offense tonight). I wonder if there is a site that has all his nicknames compiled. That would be a funny read.

just another example that the writers are reading our posts re: why Hurley never loses weight

And wasn't Jack all for torturing Sawyer (in Season 1) when he thought he was lying? How is this any different? They are portraying Jack as weaker and weaker...whinier and whinier...I really don't like where his character arc is going...

*waits for Lost writers to make fun of the heiroglyphics deciphering on the boards* ;)

I was thinking that this guy they found might possibly be Desmond's patner? (Similar story about balloning and unexplained death of companion)...probably a stretch but the stories seem incredibly close...

I forgot about that being Desmond's story. So maybe this Minn. guy was never on a balloon, but that the Others, or DHARMA, captures Desmond, and sent this guy out as a spy with Desmond's story ?

The Minnesota guy could be Desmond's dead partner's previous bunk mate. We'll have to see if he has some Pavlovian reaction to the countdown beeper when he gets out of the armory. :)

I don't think Desmond said he was in a balloon. He just said he was "in a race around the world."

I missed it but apparently the Clancy Brown character is Kate's father and he was looking at snapshots of Kate?

This is another coincidence about the survivors, another crumb along the long trail.

Will it lead to something terrific or is it just another part of an elaborate goose chase?

Not Clancy Brown, the other guy - same guy from the recruiting office Kate visited.

Of course it was computer graphics. It had to be some of the most hideous background this show has ever had. It looked so fake, even my wife commented about it, and she thought Spiderman 2 looked "realistic".

I thought it looked surreal, awesome.

A bit of a stretch that after the beating Sayid handed out the guy seemed only to be roughed up a bit. What's up with that?

Further evidence that he's probably an Other. Remember how much punishment Ethan took and hardly flinched?

Of course it was computer graphics. It had to be some of the most hideous background this show has ever had. It looked so fake, even my wife commented about it, and she thought Spiderman 2 looked "realistic".

It was obviously CG, but at the same time it was also a striking and beautiful image.

Not Clancy Brown, the other guy - same guy from the recruiting office Kate visited.

Forgive my ignorance, but which one is Clancy Brown? The bearded guy that gave Sayid the money at the end (and seemed to speak fluent Arabic/Iraqi)?

And wasn't Jack all for torturing Sawyer (in Season 1) when he thought he was lying? How is this any different? They are portraying Jack as weaker and weaker...whinier and whinier...I really don't like where his character arc is going...
the arc of all the characters is lost trust, non-cohesiveness and everyone for themselves now. Even Hurley is hiding things.

Jack isn't any weaker, just not the leader that was forced upon him season 1 (which he never was suited to be - he's just a dr).

Forgive my ignorance, but which one is Clancy Brown? The bearded guy that gave Sayid the money at the end (and seemed to speak fluent Arabic/Iraqi)?

Yep.

Actually, didn't look like much "torture" - just hit him a few times. Locke did about as bad to the Hobbit a few episodes ago.

Methinks Sayid can do much worse...

The possibilities are interesting. If he really is an "other", maybe Sayid can eventually break him and they'll really start getting some answers about WTF is going on. He should ask the questions they should have asked when they got confronted by the group in the jngle when looking for Michael (don't really miss him, btw).

Sawyer lost alot (but not all) of his appeal with the females in my family when he squished the frog. Jack has none left among any of us.

the arc of all the characters is lost trust, non-cohesiveness and everyone for themselves now. Even Hurley is hiding things.Yeah, it's a good idea to hide food out in a forest. No bugs or animals would find peanut butter, dressing, etc.

Xesdeeni

Sawyer lost alot (but not all) of his appeal with the females in my family when he squished the frog. Jack has none left among any of us.

Scary but I thought of you and your family's liking of Sawyer and when he squashed the frog I thought "his numbers are going south in the Panther household tonight!"


I think everyone is heading further and further towards darkness...perhaps the sickness the Frenchwoman mentioned.

Yeah, it's a good idea to hide food out in a forest. No bugs or animals would find peanut butter, dressing, etc.

Hey, if that ranch dressing has a 7 year shelf life, then I don't think the bugs would touch it either! :D

Sawyer lost alot (but not all) of his appeal with the females in my family when he squished the frog. Jack has none left among any of us.

Aren't those tiny, colored, jungle frogs like the most venomous creatures on the planet?

Sawyer lost...his appeal with the females in my family when he squished the frog.

I'm sure it will return once his shirt comes off again!

Sawyer lost alot (but not all) of his appeal with the females in my family when he squished the frog. Jack has none left among any of us.
That was obviously his final attempt to get everyone to hate him. Mission accomplished.

Aren't those tiny, colored, jungle frogs like the most venomous creatures on the planet?

You're probably thinking of the poison dart frog (http://waynesword.palomar.edu/dartfrog.htm) of South America.

Desmond shipwrecks on the island while in a sailing race. The guy from Minnesota crashes on the island while ballooning around the world. The Oceanic flight crashes there. The drug plane crashes there. There's an old sailing ship up in the hills. That island attracts a lot of attention from travellers. I expect them to be one of the most densely populated islands in the Pacific very soon.

The drug plan crashes there.

I'm still waiting for a non-laugh-inducing explanation for how a rickety twin-engine puddle jumper from Nigeria made it all the way to the Pacific before crashing. And if they were taking those drugs to the US or Europe, wouldn't they have flowin in the opposite direction?

Oh and I didn't notice it but Clancy Brown character is actually Kate's father? He was looking at snapshots of her?



Big deal, half the guys who post on this thread look at snapshots of Kate. I sure as hell am not her father :) Maybe he found some olf pics from the 1-900 number days :)

-Evangelo2


jk

Has anyone ever done/scene at vin (ven?) diagram of the connections of people made before reaching the island? It might form an interesting pattern that points to some common person/location/event for the survivors?

indeed. the minnesota guy had me convinced up until they showed his evil stare. Now I agree that he's become an "Other" like Ethan

He was clean-shaven, had trimmed sideburns, hair trimmed over ears... not that he couldn't have had scissors and a razor but pretty neat for having been living in a cave for 4 months.

Desmond shipwrecks on the island while in a sailing race. The guy from Minnesota crashes on the island while ballooning around the world. The Oceanic flight crashes there. The drug plane crashes there. There's an old sailing ship up in the hills. That island attracts a lot of attention from travellers. I expect them to be one of the most densely populated islands in the Pacific very soon.

I must of missed it but what happened to Desmond?

He was clean-shaven, had trimmed sideburns, hair trimmed over ears... not that he couldn't have had scissors and a razor but pretty neat for having been living in a cave for 4 months.

I had the same thoughts. So, although a convincing actor for the most part, what kind of holes can we punch in his story?

- didn't know details of wife's burial (how deep?)
- doesn't look like he's been marooned for 4 months - too clean/neat
- said he "was" rich - tried to explain that one away, but it was noticed
- balloon details unrealistic?
- gave Sayid "the look" at the end

I'm still not convinced. I say we try some more torture...

Naveen Andrews might be the best actor on the show...

To go from that wide-eyed and naive soldier...to what he became...that's talent...

It has been done, but if you listen to the guy's description he stated the balloon was 144 feet tall and some width that I don't recall if I heard correctly. As a hot air balloon owner there is no way a balloon that size would fly that high, my average every day type of balloon is 70' tall. I should have kept the episode on my TiVo to go back and hear the description again, maybe someone can post it?He said it was 140' high and 60' wide and 550,000 cubic feet of helium and 100,000 of hot air keep her up. Sounds like the Spirit of Freedom.

Fossett’s Spirit of Freedom is a design known as a Roziere balloon. It uses a combination of helium and hot air to fly. The balloon envelope, at 140 feet tall (roughly the height of a 10-story building) and 60 feet wide, can hold 550,000 cubic feet of helium plus 100,000 cubic feet of hot air. The heating is accomplished using up to three burners and a fuel mixture of propane and ethane, highly flammable. Forty tanks of the fuel festooned the outside of the capsule.

I must of missed it but what happened to Desmond?

Good question. Haven't seen him since he loaded up vials of the mysterious drug he was taking and headed out the door of the hatch.

Sawyer lost alot (but not all) of his appeal with the females in my family when he squished the frog. Jack has none left among any of us.

I was almost afraid Sawyer was going to go soft and make that frog his pet, the way he talked about how cute the little feller was.

But how many days passed since the last episode? There we had Sawyer hiding the guns with all of us speculating how Sawyer was going to watch over them 24/7. Next we see him trying to get some sleep and nobody at all interested in the weaponry. :confused:

I too thought Said's fury was more atonement for Shannon's death when he got into the burying-a-loved one train of interrogation. The Minn. guy is surely an "Other".

I was never clear about whether Locke completed entering the number sequence when the countdown stopped and restarted or if it was just a programmed progression of events. He seemed to look up to see the count go to zero and then the symbols when he incorrectly entered the numbers. Did he hit "execute"?

He said it was 140' high and 60' wide and 550,000 cubic feet of helium and 100,000 of hot air keep her up.


That is another hole in his story. Assume a 60x60x140 box, and you get 504,000 cubic feet. Not 650,000 that he claims. The way he threw out those numbers, you'd think that he knew what he was talking about.

The "was rich" comment seemed innocuous. How would that be significant?

The "was rich" comment seemed innocuous. How would that be significant?

I agree, I don't understand the interest in that comment.

If I were marooned on an island for 4 months, I'd refer to my monetary status as "was" too.

That is another hole in his story. Assume a 60x60x140 box, and you get 504,000 cubic feet. Not 650,000 that he claims. The way he threw out those numbers, you'd think that he knew what he was talking about.See my edit to my original post. ;) Another interesting note on Fossett's flight is it originated from Australia and the guy was a self-made millionaire.

The "was rich" comment seemed innocuous. How would that be significant?

It may be nothing, but Sayid noticed it too. It is extremely difficult to maintain a lie under extreme duress without some slip ups - why torture can be effective and why you fire ques after ques to judge reaction time, details, and if reactions seem natural.

It struck me as odd that he would say he "was" rich, as if he was talking about someone else. I would think most people would say "I am rich". He must have realized it sounded odd as he tried to cover it up with the comment about he is already thinking in terms of the past, or something like that, but the damage had been done. Not proof by itself, but I think it goes down as a check mark for him lying.

I had the same thoughts. So, although a convincing actor for the most part, what kind of holes can we punch in his story?

- didn't know details of wife's burial (how deep?)
- doesn't look like he's been marooned for 4 months - too clean/neat
- said he "was" rich - tried to explain that one away, but it was noticed
- balloon details unrealistic?
- gave Sayid "the look" at the end

I'm still not convinced. I say we try some more torture...

I think he's (with) "Dharma".

The "was rich" comment seemed innocuous. How would that be significant?

Saying "I was rich" implies something that either is no longer the case or was so long ago that it doesn't matter anymore. So either he used to be rich but lost all the money (doesn't compute if the last thing he did was the hot air balloon trip) or he's been on the island a lot longer than 4 months. Or he's making the whole thing up.

With a name like Henry Gale, how can the guy be telling the truth? Henry Gale is Dorothy's uncle in the Wizard of Oz.

larry

Yeah, it's a good idea to hide food out in a forest. No bugs or animals would find peanut butter, dressing, etc.

Xesdeeni
Why would they if they are sealed?

The "was rich" comment seemed innocuous. How would that be significant?

Murderers make the same slip when they refer to their victims in the past tense (husband who kills wife for example). They've already reconciled themselves with the fact that the victim is dead. Supposedly cops pick up on this. Or maybe I watch too many crime dramas. :-)

For example, Hurley still refers to himself as rich back in the world, at least he did last season when he tried to confide in Charlie. Maybe with enough passage of time he'll start to think of that as a former life and refer to it in the past tense.

But could this 'Other' really be thinking that way after only a few months? I think Sayid is right to have keyed on that little slip. The guy has probably been there a LOT longer than a few months.

Time will tell.

Of course it was computer graphics. It had to be some of the most hideous background this show has ever had. It looked so fake, even my wife commented about it, and she thought Spiderman 2 looked "realistic".What did you expect them to do? Go to Kuwait and do some pick up shots? For what it was it got the point across. Of course Spiderman 2 looked more realistic, I am sure they had at least 50 million more to spend on special effects.

I would find it more odd that some guy on an island for four months eating tree bark, rarely showering and in constant fear for his life would say "I'm rich".

Why would they if they are sealed?

Because animals like bears have a sense of smell 7x more acute than a bloodhound. A bloodhound being able to track a person/animal by a scent left on the ground while walking or plants they might brush against. Not to mention that if you eat near where you store the food, there WILL be crumbs and stuff dropped to further ease the animals' task. Once found, a plastic container (unless designed for that purpose) isn't going to keep an animal from knawing through it.

The "was rich" comment seemed innocuous. How would that be significant?

I agree... Locke WAS handicapped. Kate WAS a fugutive. etc etc

A lot has changed on the island to differentiate the present (as we know it) from the characters' "past" lives.

I'm not saying that the guy was telling the truth, I just didn't see his use of the past tense as an indicator of his being untruthful.

It may be nothing, but Sayid noticed it too. It is extremely difficult to maintain a lie under extreme duress without some slip ups - why torture can be effective and why you fire ques after ques to judge reaction time, details, and if reactions seem natural.


How do you know this?


My name is Keller...and I am a torturer. :eek:



;)

Forgive my ignorance, but which one is Clancy Brown? The bearded guy that gave Sayid the money at the end (and seemed to speak fluent Arabic/Iraqi)?

Clancy Brown:

The "was rich" comment seemed innocuous. How would that be significant?


didn't he follow up that comment with something along the lines of "look at me, I'm already talking the past tense", meaning he's never going to get back to civilation and will never see his money again

Because animals like bears have a sense of smell 7x more acute than a bloodhound. A bloodhound being able to track a person/animal by a scent left on the ground while walking or plants they might brush against. Not to mention that if you eat near where you store the food, there WILL be crumbs and stuff dropped to further ease the animals' task. Once found, a plastic container (unless designed for that purpose) isn't going to keep an animal from knawing through it.I thought it was common knowledge.... animals don't like ranch dip. Especially that Dharma brand :D.

As far as Sawyer crushing the frog goes (and his "new sheriff in town" mode), I was just saying to one of my friends a few weeks ago how I expected him to take another "mean" turn. It was right after Locke beat up Charlie and we were discussing how the writers seem to like to swing the characters back and forth to keep the viewers on edge. Just like Locke, Sawyer was becoming altogether too loveable after starting out as the unlikeable guy so he was due for a down turn.


ron

I was never clear about whether Locke completed entering the number sequence when the countdown stopped and restarted or if it was just a programmed progression of events. He seemed to look up to see the count go to zero and then the symbols when he incorrectly entered the numbers. Did he hit "execute"?

Ctrl Alt Del

Perhaps Locke has a beta version of Windows Vista! :D

I thought it looked surreal, awesome.
I did too. I thought it was very befitting of a "flashback." Also the 5.1 sound was awesome, especially in the beginning it really sounded like choppers and trucks were rolling past my room!

Naveen Andrews might be the best actor on the show...

To go from that wide-eyed and naive soldier...to what he became...that's talent...
I agree, he has incredible range, I wish we would see more of him in this show.

The "was rich" comment seemed innocuous. How would that be significant?

I would agree if he had just left it at that, but then he started backpedaling. I think the writers were trying for a subtle but noticeable slip-up. This was it. I wouldn't have thought it was significant in the least if the guy hadn't acknowledged it himself.

And wasn't Jack all for torturing Sawyer (in Season 1) when he thought he was lying? How is this any different? They are portraying Jack as weaker and weaker...whinier and whinier...I really don't like where his character arc is going...

Amen to that. Jack is developing into the single most annoying character on the island. I am a bit surprised that the writers are going this far with his personality. True, each of the characters is flawed and/or "bad" in some way, but Jack seems excessively annoying, perhaps more so than needed for the writers to show he is not all sunshine. It is obviously being done for his character development, but it seems over the top .. i.e. in his smarmy voice to Sawyer "Are you threatenting me?" .. ugggh

Something you guys really haven't touched on is why Rousso capture him in the first place and didn't just torture him herself? She then shot him with the arrow but even remarks that if she wanted to kill him, she could have. So why didn't she torture him like she did Sayid? Could this be that she was using this as a means to infilitrate Sayid's, Jack's group (because she has been working/plotting with the others all along) And then she runs off when Sayid carried him back to the hatch and doesn't appear again in the episode. Wasn't she at least half-interested in whether Sayid was going to let the Minn guy go, since like Sayid said (something like this), trust is hard to come by...I mean, she just disappears...

Arguments against him being an Other,

From the two sets of Other's we've seen (the bearded man on the boat and those barefoot, savage-like others), none of them appear as clean as this guy, well except for Ethan...well crap, what was my point? So perhaps this Minn. Other (what the hell was his name again? :)) is part of the others who like to take people? and how'd he get caught in Rousso's net anyways? arg, so many unanswered questions which will probably never be answered...

I think its settled, he's an other :)

Amen to that. Jack is developing into the single most annoying character on the island. I am a bit surprised that the writers are going this far with his personality. True, each of the characters is flawed and/or "bad" in some way, but Jack seems excessively annoying, perhaps more so than needed for the writers to show he is not all sunshine. It is obviously being done for his character development, but it seems over the top .. i.e. in his smarmy voice to Sawyer "Are you threatenting me?" .. ugggh

Perhaps Fox's contract isn't going to get renewed and they need a way to kill him off without hurting viewer's acceptance of the show? :) I really liked Jack in the first season...I really do NOT like Jack in the second season...

...

But how many days passed since the last episode? There we had Sawyer hiding the guns with all of us speculating how Sawyer was going to watch over them 24/7. Next we see him trying to get some sleep and nobody at all interested in the weaponry. :confused:
...
I was thinking about that too...my wife missed the show last night and I gave here a recap this morning. When I got done, the first thing she asked was, "what was the reaction to sawyer and his 'new sheriff in town' speech?".

I told her it was like nothing happened. I have a feeling that (with the exception of locke, jack, and maybe AC), the majority of the folks never had control or access to the guns anyhow, so what's the difference to them if Jack, Locke or Sawyer plays sheriff? Just a different brand of crazy.

"Same Stuff Different Day" sums up the the peoples' reaction in my mind. I can just imagine the people looking up from what they were doing when Sawyer gave his little speech, him finishing, then everyone shrugging their shoulders and going back to what they had been doing.

I was also interested in Jack wanting to hide MN boy from the rest, because "it might start a panic". To me the communication between the losties (or at least the writeres not showing any of it) is the most unrealistic part of the whole show.

Look at survivor, it is human nature for people to constantly be chattering and conspiring and sharing secrets. Granted there is a money motivator, and some slick editing done by survivor to allow us into all of those private conversations, but i think Lost should at least have a little of that with more than just the main 3 characters per episode. my $.02

I'm finished with this show. Yes, even despite the time investment over the last couple of years.

Last night was the final straw...

Sorry, but Sayid did not become a torturer in the Iraqi Army because the US seduced him into it. I'm pretty confident that no member of Saddam's special security forces needed any additional inducement or training from the US. This is Hollywood and ABC at its most disgusting....get lost, Lost.
So you're saying that everyone in the Republican Guard were trained torturers? I thought the way the writers put that in the show was a bit of a political dig at the US government, but, that is the way we do it, we don't torture people, we have other people/countries do it for us.

Sayid would not have tortured his superior without the US government providing the incentive(the killing of his family members with gas).

Arguments against him being an Other,

I think its settled, he's an other :)


It's troubling, isn't it?

Amen to that. Jack is developing into the single most annoying character on the island. I am a bit surprised that the writers are going this far with his personality. True, each of the characters is flawed and/or "bad" in some way, but Jack seems excessively annoying, perhaps more so than needed for the writers to show he is not all sunshine. It is obviously being done for his character development, but it seems over the top .. i.e. in his smarmy voice to Sawyer "Are you threatenting me?" .. ugggh

Jack's portayal last night was in line with his "constant need for things to rescue" that his wife left him for. Seeing a person shot through his chest with an arrow being tied down, Jack was dying to "rescue" that person from suffering. His anxiousness to "rescue" others is clouding his judgement, and he is getting emotional. It's showing.

If someone shot my groupie, blew up their raft and left them for dead on the high seas, kidnapped a little kid, threatened to blow the head off of my lady friend/love, and threaten to kill me if I set another foot past a "line", I would be baying for blood, or at least bust a knee-cap in bluebeard's face to put him in his place.

Jack's portayal last night was in line with his "constant need for things to rescue" that his wife left him for. Seeing a person shot through his chest with an arrow being tied down, Jack was dying to "rescue" that person from suffering. His anxiousness to "rescue" others is clouding his judgement, and he is getting emotional. It's showing.

If someone shot my groupie, blew up their raft and left them for dead on the high seas, kidnapped a little kid, threatened to blow the head off of my lady friend/love, and threaten to kill me if I set another foot past a "line", I would be baying for blood, or at least bust a knee-cap in bluebeard's face to put him in his place.

whats sad is you forgot about Charlie being hung by his neck and Claire being kidnapped...its like everyone on this island has short-term memory loss (this stuff only happened like 2 weeks ago for them) which really makes it seem unrealistic...

If someone shot my groupie, blew up their raft and left them for dead on the high seas, kidnapped a little kid, threatened to blow the head off of my lady friend/love, and threaten to kill me if I set another foot past a "line", I would be baying for blood, or at least bust a knee-cap in bluebeard's face to put him in his place.

My Earlier Post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6953707&&#post6953707)

Sayid gave a speech very similar to a post I made a while back. It's really obvious that they are at war, and they need to start acting like it.

Perhaps Fox's contract isn't going to get renewed and they need a way to kill him off without hurting viewer's acceptance of the show? :) I really liked Jack in the first season...I really do NOT like Jack in the second season...


Matthew Fox is going to be playing a role in the upcoming filming of the movie about Marshall University's football team (plane crash that killed the team and coach). Maybe he's taking a break from LOST to do some movies....LOL

Jack...in his smarmy voice to Sawyer "Are you threatenting me?" .. ugggh

Yeah, those 2 are going to go at it sooner or later. Rather see the catfight though (Kate and Ana Lucia)!

whats sad is you forgot about Charlie being hung by his neck and Claire being kidnapped...its like everyone on this island has short-term memory loss (this stuff only happened like 2 weeks ago for them) which really makes it seem unrealistic...

Don't worry.. I didn't forget Charlie and Claire. Those incidents were in my mind, but trying to quickly type the post so as to move on to some other thing I am doing in parallel meant that I skipped the mention of those two.

I really liked Jack in the first season...I really do NOT like Jack in the second season...

So what you're really saying is; you don't know jack!

Matthew Fox is going to be playing a role in the upcoming filming of the movie about Marshall University's football team (plane crash that killed the team and coach). Maybe he's taking a break from LOST to do some movies....LOL

Maybe the Marshall football team are the Others, stranded there from their crash, and the "real" crash that we know was staged by Dharma.

I agree, he has incredible range, I wish we would see more of him in this show.I didn't know much of Naveen Andrews before Lost but I was flipping channels a while back and the English Patient was on and recognized him. He seems to be a decent actor.

I didn't know much of Naveen Andrews before Lost but I was flipping channels a while back and the English Patient was on and recognized him. He seems to be a decent actor.


If you want to see an entirely different Naveen Andrews, go rent "Bride & Prejudice".

Am I missing something or was Jack not yet aware that the guns were missing from the armory? If he knows they are missing why wouldn't he make it job one to find out what happened to them? After all, he seemed to be one of the few who felt it necessary to form some kind of army for their defense once he was certain the "others" were armed and didn't have the best of intentions. Why wasn't he more majorly ticked off when he found out Locke changed the combination of the lock?

Perhaps I'm the only one who's really agitated by the seemingly cavalier attitude the writers have taken toward the guns that were in the "armory". Are they trying to un-indoctrinate us from understanding the significance of the guns or butter analogy from Economics 101?

I can't help but think these writers must be of the same mind as those who decided not to arm the Canadian border patrol so that whenever violence confronts them they run for their own safety rather than serve as a protector of the people as they are paid to do (I would hope!). If so, maybe that played a role in one of them ditching Lost to go write for 24.

Tim

Its official then - Jacks a jerk!

Did anyone notice that the squished frog was the same color scheme as the clock icons?