Naveen Andrews might be the best actor on the show...

To go from that wide-eyed and naive soldier...to what he became...that's talent...
Not to mention the fact that I believe his natural accent is british or australian -- I forget which.

When is the next new episode? The previews said coming soon on LOst and not next week. Is there no new show next week?

What did you expect them to do? Go to Kuwait and do some pick up shots? For what it was it got the point across. Of course Spiderman 2 looked more realistic, I am sure they had at least 50 million more to spend on special effects.Of course not. But how much could it cost to fly a few actors and some equipment to the desert in the southwest?

And my point was that Spiderman 2 is basically a cartoon. It doesn't look the least bit realistic, sizable budget notwithstanding.

I don't mind green screen as long as it's done well (see: Sopranos). But this was not only overly fake looking, but it didn't even match the lighting that was on the characters. It looked cheesey and low-budget.

When is the next new episode? The previews said coming soon on LOst and not next week. Is there no new show next week?

1 March

Enjoyed the program (2/15), but I was quite disappointed in the acting of Naveen Andrews (Sayid). In most of the other episodes that focused on him, his acting was good, but his performance in this episode seemed unrealistic, unconvincing and forced -- especially during the highly "emotional" scenes such as the interrogation. I cringed a few times and thought I was watching a high school drama exercise.

Am I missing something or was Jack not yet aware that the guns were missing from the armory? If he knows they are missing why wouldn't he make it job one to find out what happened to them? After all, he seemed to be one of the few who felt it necessary to form some kind of army for their defense once he was certain the "others" were armed and didn't have the best of intentions. Why wasn't he more majorly ticked off when he found out Locke changed the combination of the lock?

Tim

Yes. apparently you missed the last half of last weeks show..

Am I missing something or was Jack not yet aware that the guns were missing from the armory? If he knows they are missing why wouldn't he make it job one to find out what happened to them?
Because that's the Lost way, what happened last week is a distant memory until the writers decide to bring it back to the forefront, and it fits with the overall psychosis of these people in that they never ask questions and rarely speak to each other about things that have happened. If their character is not the focus in an episode, then they act like automatons just doing what they do, Jin fishes, Hurley eats, Charlie mopes, Sun gardens, etc.

Am I missing something or was Jack not yet aware that the guns were missing from the armory? If he knows they are missing why wouldn't he make it job one to find out what happened to them?
Did you miss the previous week's episode, particularly the last 10 minutes? If so, then I can understand your chagrin.

Because that's the Lost way, what happened last week is a distant memory until the writers decide to bring it back to the forefront, and it fits with the overall psychosis of these people in that they never ask questions and rarely speak to each other about things that have happened. If their character is not the focus in an episode, then they act like automatons just doing what they do, Jin fishes, Hurley eats, Charlie mopes, Sun gardens, etc.

Not true. Jin made his feelings about Sawyer perfectly clear in last nights episode. The strange thing was that Sawyer acted like he didn't know why.

Not true. Jin made his feelings about Sawyer perfectly clear in last nights episode. The strange thing was that Sawyer acted like he didn't know why.
That's true, but in general, the people on this island seem to have a pathological aversion to asking questions and getting answers.

Great episode.

Although the "other" was pretty convincing, Sayid is going with his gut - I think the look he gave him after Jack pulled him off sealed it in his mind.

They should go look for his wife's body as well. Pretty convienient to have a torturer on your team.The ballon thing doesn't matter as dude was lying anyways. So who's the better torturer, Sayid or Eko?



I didn't know much of Naveen Andrews before Lost but I was flipping channels a while back and the English Patient was on and recognized him. He seems to be a decent actor.I first noticed him in Disney's (1999) Mighty Joe Young.

Sawyer, if left alone, may have moved the frog to a different area. He clearly wants to be seen as a bad guy, so to some extent, I think he did that for Hurley's viewing (and for us, the other viewers). Anyone surprised he likes to show off his badness? I think he's a lot about show, and Kate is one of the few that sees through it, being another outcast. Note that when he went too far with the nickames, he actually apologizes. He probably actually likes Hurley! A lot of his persona is based on his own hatred of what he's become, and he fights with that - a boy who saw his parents killed by a slimy con man and has become the very thing that has hurt him most. Self-hatred being acted out. He's still one of my favorites.

And how is "I was rich" a slip? Someone went through all the trouble to be able to immediately spit out all the details of the balloon, his wife, etc., but the fact that he says "I was rich" ruins the made up story? I'm not buying it. He still may be an Other, because I trust Sayid's instincts, but this statement didn't give it away to me. Maybe this is Sayid's moment to be wrong, being clouded with the death of his love (which I still don't understand, other than the hotness!), and also because of Sayid's own recognition that the ability to torture was in him all along. Remember, he felt he lost it in his torture of Sawyer and felt he needed to be removed from the group. So he's obviously fighing his own demons.

Either way, air time for someone from Minnesota is a plus for me!!!! If we're Others, we celebrate it!

Anyone else think Sawyer's reaction to the frog was due to a writer being kept awake by a Coqui frog? Wrong colors, but the right reaction.

Sawyer, if left alone, may have moved the frog to a different area. He clearly wants to be seen as a bad guy, so to some extent, I think he did that for Hurley's viewing (and for us, the other viewers). Anyone surprised he likes to show off his badness? I think he's a lot about show, and Kate is one of the few that sees through it, being another outcast. Note that when he went too far with the nickames, he actually apologizes. He probably actually likes Hurley! A lot of his persona is based on his own hatred of what he's become, and he fights with that - a boy who saw his parents killed by a slimy con man and has become the very thing that has hurt him most. Self-hatred being acted out. He's still one of my favorites.

And how is "I was rich" a slip? Someone went through all the trouble to be able to immediately spit out all the details of the balloon, his wife, etc., but the fact that he says "I was rich" ruins the made up story? I'm not buying it. He still may be an Other, because I trust Sayid's instincts, but this statement didn't give it away to me. Maybe this is Sayid's moment to be wrong, being clouded with the death of his love (which I still don't understand, other than the hotness!), and also because of Sayid's own recognition that the ability to torture was in him all along. Remember, he felt he lost it in his torture of Sawyer and felt he needed to be removed from the group. So he's obviously fighing his own demons.

Either way, air time for someone from Minnesota is a plus for me!!!! If we're Others, we celebrate it!

Not to nitpick, but Sawyer's Mom was killed by his father, after she was conned. Then his dad committed suicide.

OK, the "was rich" thing has been beaten to death. It's really a minor point, but to me, it struck me as odd, especially when he tried to backpedal from it.
Certainly not decisive, and you can definitely make an argument that it was not unusual (as several have).
It's a subtle nuance at best, which is the great thing about this show - they have us scrutinizing what the meaning of "was" was.

Not true. Jin made his feelings about Sawyer perfectly clear in last nights episode. The strange thing was that Sawyer acted like he didn't know why.

Didn't you know? That's the way guys like that always act.

...He still may be an Other...

I still say he's "management".

So who's the better torturer, Sayid or Eko?

Sayid. Use him when you want to get info. Take Eko if you want to kill people.

I still say he's "management".

God I miss Carnivale. How is it that people can follow the "slow" story of Lost, but it somehow was (arguably) the demise of Carnivale? A tragedy.

And yes, technically, Sawyer's parents were killed in a murder suicide, but it's the con man who was ultimately to blame. But hey, nitpicking is what this forum is all about!

Alright, who keeps removing my posts, and why?

OK, the "was rich" thing has been beaten to death. It's really a minor point, but to me, it struck me as odd, especially when he tried to backpedal from it.
Certainly not decisive, and you can definitely make an argument that it was not unusual (as several have).
It's a subtle nuance at best, which is the great thing about this show - they have us scrutinizing what the meaning of "was" was.

I think Bill Clinton might be one of the writers, then. :rolleyes:

I think Bill Clinton might be one of the writers, then. :rolleyes:

Or one of the moderators!

I still say he's "management".

Exactly. The others with Mr. Friendly are just another group that have been stranded on the island longer and are sick. The others such as this guy and Ethan are part of the project management. The kids may be a totally separate group on their own with special powers or they could be part of Mr. Friendly's group. Or I could be completely wrong. :p

No doubt the Minnesota fellow is an Other. He said his name is Henry Gale and he arrived on the island in a balloon. Interestingly, Henry Gale is the name of Dorothy's uncle in The Wizard of Oz. And, a hot air balloon was to get Dorothy from Oz back to Kansas....right?
Coincidence? I don't think so...BTW Judy Garland was from Minnesota. Go Gophers!

No doubt the Minnesota fellow is an Other. He said his name is Henry Gale and he arrived on the island in a balloon. Interestingly, Henry Gale is the name of Dorothy's uncle in The Wizard of Oz. And, a hot air balloon was to get Dorothy from Oz back to Kansas....right?
Coincidence? I don't think so...BTW Judy Garland was from Minnesota. Go Gophers!

There's no place like home...there's no place like home... there's.......

I wonder if there is some alternate world where the lost are dutifully entering some sequence of those strange hieroglyphs every 108 minutes?

- Tom

Interestingly, Henry Gale is the name of Dorothy's uncle in The Wizard of Oz. And, a hot air balloon was to get Dorothy from Oz back to Kansas....right?Quite correct. I remembered the name from watching Oz with my kids several times recently. And of all the people on the island, who wouldn't know this but Sayid and Danielle?

Quite correct. I remembered the name from watching Oz with my kids several times recently. And of all the people on the island, who wouldn't know this but Sayid and Danielle?

Dude, EVERYBODY's seen The Widard of Oz!

Well, I still like Jack and understand he's probably the lynchpin of the group, but it does seem as though he's starting to lose it. His "faith" is slipping, as evidenced by his sudden willingness to let the clock tick down to zero. And a week or so ago (in the Lost timeline) he wants to "build an army", get some guns and go throw down on the Others; now he's more interested in stopping the torture of someone who may very well be a part of the same group he wanted to threaten or kill, than he is in stopping the "countdown to doom". Maybe he's starting to get "sick"...? So, along with Charlie, that's two of them now. And perhaps Locke as well, as evidenced by his needlessly violent beat-down of Charlie previously. Even Sayid seemed to be a bit too manic during and after the torture sequence.

Perhaps this is the beginning of mass psychosis among the entire group! And Desmond took all the medicine.... (But what's keeping/has kept Rousseau sane?)

And I agree with the above poster about Sawyer crushing the frog to make an impact on Hurley, keep up his street-cred as a jerk as it were. He's got some serious self-esteem issues.

whats sad is you forgot about Charlie being hung by his neck and Claire being kidnapped...its like everyone on this island has short-term memory loss (this stuff only happened like 2 weeks ago for them) which really makes it seem unrealistic...

according to the coming attractions for March 1'st episode, Claire starts remembering her abduction.

Yes. apparently you missed the last half of last weeks show..

but so did the writers. :rolleyes: How else do you explain, like others have posted, that everyone acted, in this week's episode, that the Sawyer taking the guns away thing never happened ?

but so did the writers. :rolleyes: How else do you explain, like others have posted, that everyone acted, in this week's episode, that the Sawyer taking the guns away thing never happened ?

No body else was interested in joining the army, as AL wondered while talking to Jack in last week's episode. Why then would they be anymore riled up if someone took the guns that were always stashed up in the armory, anyway? Like AL quipped to Jack the other day.. "you people feel safe here !!". Everybody else outside of the power-circle is going about their life as usual. Meanwhile, Jack, Locke, Sawyer and Charlie are all caught up in their own squabbles with each other.

but so did the writers. :rolleyes: How else do you explain, like others have posted, that everyone acted, in this week's episode, that the Sawyer taking the guns away thing never happened ?

What exacly were they to do differently after they caught an "other" (maybe). yell more at Sawyer? I just don't understand what behavior you are expecting ...

His "faith" is slipping, as evidenced by his sudden willingness to let the clock tick down to zero.I don't think Jack ever was that enthusiastic about typing in the numbers.
Maybe he's starting to get "sick"...? So, along with Charlie, that's two of them now. And perhaps Locke as well, as evidenced by his needlessly violent beat-down of Charlie previously. Even Sayid seemed to be a bit too manic during and after the torture sequence.Personally, I don't think any of this is evidence that anyone is "sick". I think that all of these behaviors are well within expecations of different people under these circumstances.

I hope it's like Final Destination and since Jack was supposed to die in the Pilot, he'll get knocked off then anyone he's saved will also start to drop. :)

(But what's keeping/has kept Rousseau sane?)

You have a strange sense of sanity my friend. :)

I don't think Jack ever was that enthusiastic about typing in the numbers.

Personally, I don't think any of this is evidence that anyone is "sick". I think that all of these behaviors are well within expecations of different people under these circumstances.

Didn't Jack seem skeptical about pressing the button when he first came to the hatch? I think it was Locke who convinced him saying "What's there to lose?".

And I don't want this to turn into a psychological/social experiment/simulation !! It'd be more exciting to have a mystery than have someone one fine day come up and say "Sorry boys!! You've been played.. ROFLMFAO". I'd be very disappointed if the series goes down that route.

I don't think Jack ever was that enthusiastic about typing in the numbers.

Not enthusiastic, of course, but there was a clear indication that Jack was becoming more willing to embrace the "faith" side along with Locke and he had fully bought into the necessity of pressing the button. Until now.

Personally, I don't think any of this is evidence that anyone is "sick". I think that all of these behaviors are well within expecations of different people under these circumstances.

No, their actions are definitely changing in response to some stimuli. Locke giving Charlie that severe beat-down was completely out of character. The normally cool Sayid going all wide-eyed and manic was completely out of character. The normally sweet-natured Charlie turning to the dark side - again, completely out of character. Something is changing them; and that something is likely the sickness that Rousseau spoke of. We knew we had to start seeing evidence of that sometime; it appears to me as if it now might be beginning to affect them.

Perhaps it's the bunker itself, with it's powerful magnetic field, that's making them sick. They didn't exhibit any of this new, uncharacteristic behavior until they got in there.

When we start to see Rose and Bernard begin to fight, we'll know for sure. :p

Mr. Gale is an "Other." I agree with others that he was a contributor to Dharma. He gave his entire fortune to it. He was cleanshaven, but so was the "Other" that got in with the Tailies that Ana Lucia killed.

Question about the symbols on the clock: why use symbols at all? What's the point of putting up symbols when you could just print out "your a goner?" The film that they found in the bunker (and the missing footage found by Ecko) are very cryptic themselves, mentioning an "accident." It gives credence that this bunker is just an experiment in human behavior.

Still, what's to make of the big clunking sounds when the timer hit zero? It sounded like some big doors were shutting.

You have a strange sense of sanity my friend. :)

Well, in the sense that she was cognisant of the "sickness" and survived when her comrades all went nutso and died. Sixteen years of being marooned on that island would affect anyone's sense of sanity, in the traditional sense of the word. ;)

I don't think Jack ever was that enthusiastic about typing in the numbers.
Personally, I don't think any of this is evidence that anyone is "sick". I think that all of these behaviors are well within expecations of different people under these circumstances.
Perhaps the frog will have the "cure" for the sickness. Someone find Michael and give him the frog!

Mr. Gale...was a contributor to Dharma. He gave his entire fortune to it...

Aha! That makes sense. Did they then seduce him into coming to the island (in a balloon or otherwise) for some purpose, after they had "bled him dry", so to speak?

Not enthusiastic, of course, but there was a clear indication that Jack was becoming more willing to embrace the "faith" side along with Locke and he had fully bought into the necessity of pressing the button. Until now.

No, their actions are definitely changing in response to some stimuli. Locke giving Charlie that severe beat-down was completely out of character. The normally cool Sayid going all wide-eyed and manic was completely out of character. The normally sweet-natured Charlie turning to the dark side - again, completely out of character. Something is changing them; and that something is likely the sickness that Rousseau spoke of. We knew we had to start seeing evidence of that sometime; it appears to me as if it now might be beginning to affect them.

Perhaps it's the bunker itself, with it's powerful magnetic field, that's making them sick. They didn't exhibit any of this new, uncharacteristic behavior until they got in there.

I wonder about the "sickness" theory. Sure, we hear talk about people getting sick and dying, but is it physical sickness or is that just the perception?

Perhaps the "sickness" they fear is just human nature itself. The purpose of Dharma was to improve mankind in an isolated environment free from outside influences. Perhaps they learned that human nature is what it is and all attempts to "perfect" mankind through experimentation fail.

Oh well, just a theory. I don't doubt that there's something freaky going on with the island, but until the writers give us a LITTLE MORE TO WORK WITH, I'm not 100% sold on a physiological sickness.

The US forces and Clancey Brown needed Sayid to translate to get the info on the downed pilot. Then Clancey convinced Sayid that his C/O had gassed his village and he should use the items in the 'torture box' to extract the info.

Later, Clancey says to Sayid "Someday you may need to know something, and now you will know how to get it". But he says this in ARABIC. That means that they NEVER needed Sayid to translate. Furthermore, Clancey's character was not in Military clothes, nor was he ever referred to by name or rank.

This leads me to think that perhaps Clancey wasn't a CIA or military operative, but perhaps an outside consultant from a certain foundation funded by a certain weathly industrialist. (He also had the big wad of cash).

Is it possible that Dharma had set Sayid on the path of becoming a torturer 10 years earlier? That would imply that at least some people on the plane / in the crash were brought there specifically by Dharma.

-Dan

Man, I used to come on here every Friday and be impressed by all the things I missed that were caught by you guys. I'm disappointed this week.

- No mention of Henry Gale being locked alone in the armory WITH THE PLIERS and a hastily blocked ventilation shaft above at the end of the episode?
- No mention of the hot air baloon in the mural while Jack is patching Gale up?
- To discussion of any possible deeper meaning to Seargant Zim's (Clancy Brown to the uninformed) comment about "Some day you will need this to get information you need"?
- Only the faintest hint of discussion about the previews for the next new episode? (Or is this a "previews for future episodes are spoilers to 2% of the population, so we have to remove them" issue)

As for what was discussed, Sayid's beating was quite a bit more severe than what Locke gave Charlie on the beach. Several moments of punching and (I seem to remember)kicking/kneeing in the head should have left a normal human with a recent shoulder injury and resultant blood loss as a quivering mass on the floor - certainly not lucid and composed enough to give the look that Gale gave.

After "4 months" on one part of the island, with a transponder in place, and a seemingly good location staked out, what exactly would posess this guy to suddenly go hiking across the island and through the jungle in the first place?

Man, I used to come on here every Friday and be impressed by all the things I missed that were caught by you guys. I'm disappointed this week.

That's the beauty of this thread - all those things that you were disappointed weren't mentioned have all now been mentioned. Now the rest of us that were also disappointed, aren't any longer. ;)

How about those red and black symbols on the countdown timer? That was pretty strange. One of them resembled a simple drawing of a rocket to me.

Also, my wife is now sick of Jack.

-Reagan

Man, I used to come on here every Friday and be impressed by all the things I missed that were caught by you guys. I'm disappointed this week.

- No mention of Henry Gale being locked alone in the armory WITH THE PLIERS and a hastily blocked ventilation shaft above at the end of the episode?
- No mention of the hot air baloon in the mural while Jack is patching Gale up?
- To discussion of any possible deeper meaning to Seargant Zim's (Clancy Brown to the uninformed) comment about "Some day you will need this to get information you need"?
- Only the faintest hint of discussion about the previews for the next new episode? (Or is this a "previews for future episodes are spoilers to 2% of the population, so we have to remove them" issue)

As for what was discussed, Sayid's beating was quite a bit more severe than what Locke gave Charlie on the beach. Several moments of punching and (I seem to remember)kicking/kneeing in the head should have left a normal human with a recent shoulder injury and resultant blood loss as a quivering mass on the floor - certainly not lucid and composed enough to give the look that Gale gave.

After "4 months" on one part of the island, with a transponder in place, and a seemingly good location staked out, what exactly would posess this guy to suddenly go hiking across the island and through the jungle in the first place?

Man, you're good! The hot air balloon picture --- the writer's are AMAZING coming up with this stuff. I think every one of us 'cept you missed it. My guess is that in the next episode or so we'll see (probably) Sayid take notice of it and he'll know that he was right all along (probably after everyone else has been "convinced" the guy was telling the truth and he's been untied/let loose.

Inman (Clancy Brown) - a time traveler?

The beating - I said before as you are saying, that there's no way he would have been on his knees after that, glaring, as if he had super-human strength. Shades of Ethan Rom.

Looking back, an incredible episode (IMO).

very disappointed that the counter went to zero and locke was still able to reset it..
Did you ever see the Outer Limits (1997) episode "Dead Man's Switch"? In that, the Doomsday device countdown timer also gave you a chance to reset it once it's been triggered...

Seems logical to me that you'd have multiple prompts to cancel a very bad action, just to make damned sure you really want to have whatever's going to happen, happen. Even Microsoft Windows asks if you really want to delete files before it deletes them.

I suspect that if the fifth hieroglyphic symbol had popped up, Locke's keyboard would have been locked-out, but not until then.

Remember, the computer could easily be programmed to automatically reset the timer every 108 minutes, but Dharma chose to have a complicated countdown system, complete with warning horns and sirens, that absolutely requires human intervention--and humans are notoriously unreliable.

And, we also learned that while the button still may be just a psychological experiment, as Jack thinks, but something does happen when the countdown hits zero.

~Dan

Perhaps the "sickness" they fear is just human nature itself. The purpose of Dharma was to improve mankind in an isolated environment free from outside influences. Perhaps they learned that human nature is what it is and all attempts to "perfect" mankind through experimentation fail.And then abandoned it, with the whole [bermuda triangle] trap bit as the "incident"? Interesting. Since no Utopia will survive the first batch of dissidents intact, and self-selected [or hand-picked] Utopias' first batch of dissidents usually come disguised as teenagers... If it is an controlled hand-picked experiment, they would need to take any children before the children matured enough to have a personality and began affecting the results. Maybe Zeke and his band are just another experiment (mentioned here before I think), instead of the observers. And there could be another with the removed children...

v/r,
C-F

I forgot about that being Desmond's story. So maybe this Minn. guy was never on a balloon, but that the Others, or DHARMA, captures Desmond, and sent this guy out as a spy with Desmond's story ?
I don't think Desmond said he was in a balloon. He just said he was "in a race around the world."
And that his boat crashed on the reefs offshore...

~Dan

Sawyer lost alot (but not all) of his appeal with the females in my family when he squished the frog. Jack has none left among any of us.
With the recurring theme of good and evil, and our suspicion that the group will fragment into "good" and "bad" sides, it seems the writers are going to great lengths to make sure we viewers also choose sides (or at least are against certain characters).

This show truly is an interactive experience...

~Dan

The US forces and Clancey Brown needed Sayid to translate to get the info on the downed pilot. Then Clancey convinced Sayid that his C/O had gassed his village and he should use the items in the 'torture box' to extract the info.

Later, Clancey says to Sayid "Someday you may need to know something, and now you will know how to get it". But he says this in ARABIC. That means that they NEVER needed Sayid to translate. Furthermore, Clancey's character was not in Military clothes, nor was he ever referred to by name or rank.

This leads me to think that perhaps Clancey wasn't a CIA or military operative, but perhaps an outside consultant from a certain foundation funded by a certain weathly industrialist. (He also had the big wad of cash).

Is it possible that Dharma had set Sayid on the path of becoming a torturer 10 years earlier? That would imply that at least some people on the plane / in the crash were brought there specifically by Dharma.

-Dan

As the plot has gone on I have been thinking the same thing about the mix of people brought to the Island. I think Dharma or Karma or whatever force you want to chose has selected these specific people. I think all the flashbacks showing connections between characters is meant to lead us to this conclusion. Not that the show isn't plenty farfetched, but there are 6 billion folks on the planet. I don't expect 40 people to be so interconnected in the past.

One thing that puzzles me about the whole Dharma experiment scenario is how do we explain the supernatural occurances that these people have experienced. Sure, they could have had a cage hidden somewhere with a polar bear ready to release or staged many other occurances, but what about that invisible monster/black smoke/security device (or whatever they called it). Could Sharma have created that? And we still don't know how all these people survived such a horrible plane crash (unless the whole ordeal was implanted into their heads).

A scientific experiment (even one made up on a tv show) doesn't seem to explain all the happenings. I almost feel more like Dharma went there for some type of experiment, and there is some evil presence on the island that has lead us to the present status. I guess I'm trying to say that I don't think all the events on the show are just man-driven and scientifically explainable. I feel like sometime down the road we will see some driving supernatural force at least in addition to something more realistic like what has been hypothisized in this thread. Either way the show is pretty entertaining.

I'm still waiting for a non-laugh-inducing explanation for how a rickety twin-engine puddle jumper from Nigeria made it all the way to the Pacific before crashing. And if they were taking those drugs to the US or Europe, wouldn't they have flowin in the opposite direction?
To paraphrase Danielle: Are you on the same island I am?

If the island is responsible for making sure some select passengers don't die when their airplane breaks up at 30,000 feet and crashes on the beach or spashes down offshore at over 200 mph, I'd suspect making sure a particular Beechcraft makes it 2000 miles before crashing wouldn't be too much of a challenge...

Likely to happen? Probably not, but don't mistake coincidence for fate.

~Dan

- No mention of the hot air baloon in the mural while Jack is patching Gale up?
- To discussion of any possible deeper meaning to Seargant Zim's (Clancy Brown to the uninformed) comment about "Some day you will need this to get information you need"?


wow *goes back and watches again*

I was wondering why Brown's character wasn't in uniform like the rest of the military...that did seem odd. Like I said, I'd be very glad to see him come back in future episodes :)

Still, what's to make of the big clunking sounds when the timer hit zero? It sounded like some big doors were shutting.


You could hear machinery winding up as well...

I kind of need to speak up here about what others have been saying about the apparent lack of injury to Henry Gale after Sayid beat him up. My take on it would be that if he had to use his torture techniques after that first time (which based on an earlier flashback, it seems he had), he probably was pretty good at it. So, the general idea of physical torture is not to cause any significant harm to your subject, but to instead cause pain. The best torture is when you use a person's body against them. Nerve clusters, pressure points and beatings to sensative areas will provide a lot of pain, but may not show any outward injury. It's like the old phone book cliche from the cop shows. It hurts like hell, but doesn't leave any marks that could prove there was any physical persuasion going on. Even punches placed in the right way would yeild pain, but create very little physical evidence.

Of course, the removal or crushing of body parts will certainly create physical injury. However, that should be a last resort. The idea is to avoid having your subject pass out or die before you can extract information. The key is to create pain that won't linger too long. This allows a person to "recover" slightly before inducing more pain. It's more shocking when it hits you in waves.

Of course not. But how much could it cost to fly a few actors and some equipment to the desert in the southwest?

When your show is based in Hawaii? A lot more than you think. It's not practical on a TV show, not just for reasons of budget, but for time. Besides, I believe the tax credit they get requires them to shoot 100% on location in Hawaii.

I thought this was a great episode... Naveen Andrews really convinced me of Sayid's 1991 youth and relative innocence... it came across almost entirely through his face and eyes.

I can't quite decide about Mr. Gale. Part of me takes Sayid's conclusions at face value, because 1) he's Sayid and he said so; 2) the weaknesses in Gale's story; 3) OMG HENRY GALE in a BALLOON! duh.

The other part of me says that sometimes the Lost producers like to go seriously against type. The actor who plays Gale is known for creepy, creepy bad guys (anyone else remember Hinks from The Practice)? Compare with the guy who played Goodwin, who usually plays dads, cops, nice guys -- even astronauts (twice). Casting him as a bad guy was a sweet piece of misdirection, and I wonder if they're going the same direction with Gale. (But -- OMG Henry Gale in a balloon!)

Oh, and Matthew Fox isn't going anywhere. And I still like Jack, and appreciate it that he isn't perfect :)

Though I seriously think there needs to be a TV moratorium on characters named Jack (Bauer, Shepard, etc.) and Shepard (Lost, Grey's Anatomy, Stargate Atlantis). It's starting to get disorienting, so to speak.

I thought this was pretty funny -- the real meaning of the glyphs:

http://community.livejournal.com/lost_tv/1215812.html

One thing the producers need to do is to draw the story out "indefinitely", since they don't know how long they'll be on the air, although current ratings point to at least a couple more years if they don't jump the proverbial shark.

By introducing how our favorite Republican Guard soldier became "Sayid the Torturer", and having him say he followed that road for 6 more years, they have opened the possibility of many more backstories for Sayid in the seasons to come.

While most have considered the sounds when the timers went to 0 to be hatches being closed, there is an alternative: there are hatches being *opened*. Maybe to other parts of the complex.

I kind of need to speak up here about what others have been saying about the apparent lack of injury to Henry Gale after Sayid beat him up. My take on it would be that if he had to use his torture techniques after that first time (which based on an earlier flashback, it seems he had), he probably was pretty good at it. So, the general idea of physical torture is not to cause any significant harm to your subject, but to instead cause pain. The best torture is when you use a person's body against them. Nerve clusters, pressure points and beatings to sensative areas will provide a lot of pain, but may not show any outward injury. It's like the old phone book cliche from the cop shows. It hurts like hell, but doesn't leave any marks that could prove there was any physical persuasion going on. Even punches placed in the right way would yeild pain, but create very little physical evidence.

Of course, the removal or crushing of body parts will certainly create physical injury. However, that should be a last resort. The idea is to avoid having your subject pass out or die before you can extract information. The key is to create pain that won't linger too long. This allows a person to "recover" slightly before inducing more pain. It's more shocking when it hits you in waves.

Dude, you're scaring me.

... but there are 6 billion folks on the planet. I don't expect 40 people to be so interconnected...

Then how do you explain The 6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon? Seriously.

How about those red and black symbols on the countdown timer? That was pretty strange. One of them resembled a simple drawing of a rocket to me.
-Reagan

Somebody's gonna scream at you to read the thread, but instead take a look starting at this page (and post #12924 in particular): http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=449662&page=431&pp=30

While most have considered the sounds when the timers went to 0 to be hatches being closed, there is an alternative: there are hatches being *opened*. Maybe to other parts of the complex.

Which would mean that they were that close to knowing all the answers --- I like it!

You could hear machinery winding up as well...

I think there was mention in a past episode of blast doors in the bunker. Maybe the noise was some sort of lockdown procedure. I guess one question that raises is do the doors automatically close to protect those inside from something on the outside (attack, hurricane, ...) or vice versa (contamination/infection - the way Stephen King's The Stand began as I recall)?

I wish they'd inspect that buried cable some more. A makeshift compass could probably determine if it's carrying power (large electromagnetic field) or communications. If power, is the power source on the island and it's powering something offshore, or vice versa.

Along those lines, what is the power source for the bunker? I don't think we've seen any solar cells and batteries (which require maintenance) to support solar power. We haven't been given any indication there is the noise, smell, or fuel to support a generator. We've got the magnetism from the sealed-off section of the bunker which might indicate some large generator but something has to power it.

Somebody's gonna scream at you to read the thread, but instead take a look starting at this page (and post #12924 in particular): http://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61423

What are we supposed to see at that link???

Hrm, this is interesting:

http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1615

Be sure to read the comments, especially the fourth one down.

Dude, you're scaring me.Tell me what you mean.....

No, really. Talk...or else. ;)

I think there was mention in a past episode of blast doors in the bunker. Maybe the noise was some sort of lockdown procedure. I guess one question that raises is do the doors automatically close to protect those inside from something on the outside (attack, hurricane, ...) or vice versa (contamination/infection - the way Stephen King's The Stand began as I recall)?

I wish they'd inspect that buried cable some more. A makeshift compass could probably determine if it's carrying power (large electromagnetic field) or communications. If power, is the power source on the island and it's powering something offshore, or vice versa.

Along those lines, what is the power source for the bunker? I don't think we've seen any solar cells and batteries (which require maintenance) to support solar power. We haven't been given any indication there is the noise, smell, or fuel to support a generator. We've got the magnetism from the sealed-off section of the bunker which might indicate some large generator but something has to power it.

not to mention the supply of running clean water and the extra food Hurley was eating (???? I thought they ate all the food that one night ????)

arg we need explanations!!!!!

Aha! That makes sense. Did they then seduce him into coming to the island (in a balloon or otherwise) for some purpose, after they had "bled him dry", so to speak?

so your saying that Mr & Mrs Minnesota stuffed all their cash, along with check book and MAC card into a big bag, and brought only that with them on the balloon ride to DHARMA island ?

When your show is based in Hawaii? A lot more than you think. It's not practical on a TV show, not just for reasons of budget, but for time. Besides, I believe the tax credit they get requires them to shoot 100% on location in Hawaii.

I thought this was a great episode... Naveen Andrews really convinced me of Sayid's 1991 youth and relative innocence... it came across almost entirely through his face and eyes.

I can't quite decide about Mr. Gale. Part of me takes Sayid's conclusions at face value, because 1) he's Sayid and he said so; 2) the weaknesses in Gale's story; 3) OMG HENRY GALE in a BALLOON! duh.

The other part of me says that sometimes the Lost producers like to go seriously against type. The actor who plays Gale is known for creepy, creepy bad guys (anyone else remember Hinks from The Practice)? Compare with the guy who played Goodwin, who usually plays dads, cops, nice guys -- even astronauts (twice). Casting him as a bad guy was a sweet piece of misdirection, and I wonder if they're going the same direction with Gale. (But -- OMG Henry Gale in a balloon!)

Oh, and Matthew Fox isn't going anywhere. And I still like Jack, and appreciate it that he isn't perfect :)

Though I seriously think there needs to be a TV moratorium on characters named Jack (Bauer, Shepard, etc.) and Shepard (Lost, Grey's Anatomy, Stargate Atlantis). It's starting to get disorienting, so to speak.

I thought this was pretty funny -- the real meaning of the glyphs:

http://community.livejournal.com/lost_tv/1215812.html
Unless you're talking about another Sheppard, the Jack you're talking about is John Sheppard (SG Atlantis).

so your saying that Mr & Mrs Minnesota stuffed all their cash, along with check book and MAC card into a big bag, and brought only that with them on the balloon ride to DHARMA island ?Nah, DARMA only accepts Visa.

Man, I used to come on here every Friday and be impressed by all the things I missed that were caught by you guys. I'm disappointed this week.
- No mention of the hot air baloon in the mural while Jack is patching Gale up?


WOW...does anyone have a screen shot of this?

While most have considered the sounds when the timers went to 0 to be hatches being closed, there is an alternative: there are hatches being *opened*. Maybe to other parts of the complex.

I like it! Perhaps once the countdown hits zero and all the symbols come up something bad really is going to happen, maybe another area opens for the those in the hatch to escape into, deeper into the complex. Oh think of the possibilities.

Unless you're talking about another Sheppard, the Jack you're talking about is John Sheppard (SG Atlantis).That's how I read it. He was referring to guys named Jack as well as guys named Sheppard.

Of course, we can't forget Shepherd from Firefly/Serenity.

Unless you're talking about another Sheppard, the Jack you're talking about is John Sheppard (SG Atlantis).

Actually, I was talking about him as a Shepard (w/spelling variation) :)

WOW...does anyone have a screen shot of this?



I like it! Perhaps once the countdown hits zero and all the symbols come up something bad really is going to happen, maybe another area opens for the those in the hatch to escape into, deeper into the complex. Oh think of the possibilities.
Or maybe a bunch of Oompa Loompas come out and warn about gluttony, being a brat and not doing what you're told....

....which were the personalities of most of the characters in this episode.

That's how I read it. He was referring to guys named Jack as well as guys named Sheppard.

Despite my moments of obvious fangirling, there are still people around here who think I'm a he :)

Nah, DARMA only accepts Visa.

Discover would be much more fitting.

I thought everyone on AVS was a he? ;)

Despite my moments of obvious fangirling, there are still people around here who think I'm a he :)
LOL - I guess I've been programmed to think only guys would be geeky enough to discuss any show as endlessly as we do here. We're one step up from a round of D&D in most cases.

Note to self - make note to self about which members have confirmed whether they are male or female. Then lose list and have to guess all over again...

Discover would be much more fitting.Well, there is that cash back bonus thing. In addition, those guys tend to give out higher credit limits.

One of the impressions I got when the timer got down to zeros was that some kind of startup sequence was being initiated. I doubt if it's significant, but some of the sounds made me think of the sound large pipes and valves make when becoming pressurized or charged with something.

I don't think Jack was only interested in the guns for the purposes of forming an attack army. I think he recognizes that having a gun empowers a person to impose their will on another whether it's ever fired or not. I can't believe that he all-of-a-sudden forgot about their disappearance and completely dismissed the concern. Instead, I think he's been pre-occupied with the Other/non-Other they found, and this little diversion will prove to be a more interesting twist.

What's curious and suspicious to me is how this Minnesota dude was captured so relatively easily when the Others have been for the most part invisible/untouchable. Was he sent to get caught? Did he have a falling out with the Others? Did he tell any truth or was it all fabricated? Does he have any powers we don't yet know about? If he really is an Other, why wouldn't he just tell the truth? - after all, don't they believe they are the ones protecting those who are "good" and supposedly control the island? Will he have a backstory connection with any of the other survivors or are those only reserved for the ones who are flawed?

Tim

LOL - I guess I've been programmed to think only guys would be geeky enough to discuss any show as endlessly as we do here.

You must never have visited Livejournal, or most of the TWOP forums. :)

I like it here because I get a totally different perspective than I do in forums that are mostly participated in by women. Men and women really do process and perceive TV shows in a very different way, and I like reading things that might not have occured to me and seeing the show in a new light.

And unlike, say, the sci-fi channel forums, which are mostly populated by know-it-all, dimwitted, sexist fanboys, the guys who participate here are bright, well-read and have a lot to offer.

Then how do you explain The 6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon? Seriously.

I just about mentioned that while I was typing my last response. I believe just about everyone on the planet really is within 6 degrees of separation. What I am trying to say is that these backstories have shown that several of these characters are within one degree of separation (they have interacted with each other or the same people). Or they have some tie to strange occurances on the island.

I just about mentioned that while I was typing my last response. I believe just about everyone on the planet really is within 6 degrees of separation. What I am trying to say is that these backstories have shown that several of these characters are within one degree of separation (they have interacted with each other or the same people). Or they have some tie to strange occurances on the island.

I'm only 2 degrees of separation from Kevin. :cool:

Did I just say that out loud? It must be Friday. :p

Somebody's gonna scream at you to read the thread, but instead take a look starting at this page (and post #12924 in particular): http://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61423

Am I missing a joke? What Lost tidbit am I supposed to get out of a thread about Mini Coopers...and one that doesn't have more than 5-6 posts, much less 12924.

While Jack is beginning to disappoint me, I don't think the character is lousy. He's flawed, like many on the island, but I think he does good. He's been the voice of rationality in many instances.

I also wish they would spend more time trying to study the bunker, the cable, the other bunker, etc. They now know what the Others are capable of so it would be to their advantage to study the island and find out more about them and how to stop them. Sitting on a beach isn't going to do them any good.

It is interesting how the different theories might address different themes.

The island-as-mystery concept where it draws people to it induces even more mystery with the 7 degrees of separation idea that these loosely-related strangers that have crossed paths before are now on this island together. Coincidence or fate?

On the other hand, the fact that their paths have crossed allows for an abduction possibility whereby people were in the same place at the same time. If a Dharma observer was monitoring one subject, another subject could have been gleaned from contact with the initial subject.

Am I missing a joke? What Lost tidbit am I supposed to get out of a thread about Mini Coopers...and one that doesn't have more than 5-6 posts, much less 12924.

I think this is the link he meant to use:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7142734&&#post7142734

so your saying that Mr & Mrs Minnesota stuffed all their cash, along with check book and MAC card into a big bag, and brought only that with them on the balloon ride to DHARMA island ?

No, just wondering if they lost their money in some way to the Dharma "cult". I think the balloon story was made up and had nothing to do with it, and that they arrived on the island in some other way. Possibly they had been on the island for years. And possibly there wasn't any "they", just him. The wife's burial story seemed made up too.

...the guys who participate here are bright, well-read and have a lot to offer.

Ah shucks, ma'am!

What's curious and suspicious to me is how this Minnesota dude was captured so relatively easily when the Others have been for the most part invisible/untouchable. Was he sent to get caught? Did he have a falling out with the Others? Did he tell any truth or was it all fabricated? Does he have any powers we don't yet know about? If he really is an Other, why wouldn't he just tell the truth? - after all, don't they believe they are the ones protecting those who are "good" and supposedly control the island? Will he have a backstory connection with any of the other survivors or are those only reserved for the ones who are flawed?

Tim

Good questions. My impression was that he got himself caught on purpose and was sent undercover to infiltrate the group and learn more about them. However, they may not have realized they would have to go up against a former Republican Guard torturer.
If Sayid can get his emotions in-check regarding Shanon, he should be able to eventually get the truth.
How cool would it be if the others thought they could walk in and infiltrate the group easily, but they don't buy it and turn the tables?
As I said earlier, more torture is needed.

Is Sawyer the key?

I was thinking about the backstories and the characters that have crossed paths and realized Sawyer has three island connections now. In his most recently detailed scam, some said the waitress in the diner was Kate's mom, so that indirectly links Sawyer to Kate. Then Sawyer met Jack's dad, which indirectly connects him to Jack and by association, Desmond.

This thread makes watching the show so easy. I watch the pretty girls and locations, enjoy the drama, knowing that I can come here afterwards, to find out what was really happening, maybe.
A lot like high school English; Richard what do you think Melville was saying here?
Uh, whaling is dangerous?
No, metaphorically?
Oh, uh, whaling is REALLY dangerous.
You can tell it was an exceptional episode, by the comments it generated!
This leads me to think that perhaps Clancey wasn't a CIA or military operative, but perhaps an outside consultant from a certain foundation funded by a certain weathly industrialist. (He also had the big wad of cash).
-Dan
Excellent, what kind of cocktails do you drink while watching, I will try.

No doubt the Minnesota fellow is an Other. He said his name is Henry Gale and he arrived on the island in a balloon. Interestingly, Henry Gale is the name of Dorothy's uncle in The Wizard of Oz.
I wish I hadn't done so much damage to my memory.


Perhaps this is the beginning of mass psychosis among the entire group! And Desmond took all the medicine.... (But what's keeping/has kept Rousseau sane?)
.
Always thinking, this would be good, if they keep it subtle and slow moving, the sickness has them all before they realize they are sick.


- No mention of Henry Gale being locked alone in the armory WITH THE PLIERS and a hastily blocked ventilation shaft above at the end of the episode?
- No mention of the hot air baloon in the mural while Jack is patching Gale up?
- To discussion of any possible deeper meaning to Seargant Zim's (Clancy Brown to the uninformed) comment about "Some day you will need this to get information you need"?

Maybe I need fewer cocktails while I'm watching...

I kind of need to speak up here ...
Of course, the removal or crushing of body parts will certainly create physical injury. However, that should be a last resort. The idea is to avoid having your subject pass out or die before you can extract information. The key is to create pain that won't linger too long. This allows a person to "recover" slightly before inducing more pain. It's more shocking when it hits you in waves.
YIKES! :eek:

While most have considered the sounds when the timers went to 0 to be hatches being closed, there is an alternative: there are hatches being *opened*. Maybe to other parts of the complex.
My favorite, you must be a great problem solver, counter intuitive thinking.

the guys who participate here are bright, well-read and have a lot to offer.
Uh, AVS, right...uh, you're sure?

Along those lines, what is the power source for the bunker? I don't think we've seen any solar cells and batteries (which require maintenance) to support solar power. We haven't been given any indication there is the noise, smell, or fuel to support a generator. We've got the magnetism from the sealed-off section of the bunker which might indicate some large generator but something has to power it.

I seem to recall they may have explained this, and perhaps something about the water supply in the episode where Sayid was crawling around in the bunker basement. But I can't remember for sure.

Am I missing a joke? What Lost tidbit am I supposed to get out of a thread about Mini Coopers...and one that doesn't have more than 5-6 posts, much less 12924.Sorry about that - corrected the post for the correct link. :o

...I wish I hadn't done so much damage to my memory...

...Maybe I need fewer cocktails while I'm watching...To some there are NO bad episodes - LOL! :D

WOW...does anyone have a screen shot of this?I went back and watched the episode. I didn't see anything that looks like a hot air balloon in the mural. I could only find a brief shot of it while Jack was patching up Mr. Other, but it was too out of focus to see any details.

If anyone else has any luck, please post it.

Scott

That's how I read it. He was referring to guys named Jack as well as guys named Sheppard.

Of course, we can't forget Shepherd from Firefly/Serenity.
Well, he said Jack (Bauer, Shepard, etc.) and then Shepard (SG-Atlantis), but that doesn't really matter.

She?...

srw1000, I thought they were talking about the picture opposite the weight-bench, and behind where Sayid was standing. That picture seemed to have a desert motif with what could be a ballon on the left side, and it was right there for the wonderful Mr. Gale to look at when he looked up.

v/r,
C-F

I dunno if anybody saw this, but Drew Goddard has signed on to pen for Lost next season....he's work on Buffy, Angel and Alias...should be interesting to see what he can do for the series:

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117938317?categoryid=1236&cs=1&s=h&p=0

That picture seemed to have a desert motif with what could be a ballon on the left side, and it was right there for the wonderful Mr. Gale to look at when he looked up.
So are you saying he made it up on the fly? (good catch, BTW)

Is Sawyer the key?

I was thinking about the backstories and the characters that have crossed paths and realized Sawyer has three island connections now. In his most recently detailed scam, some said the waitress in the diner was Kate's mom, so that indirectly links Sawyer to Kate. Then Sawyer met Jack's dad, which indirectly connects him to Jack and by association, Desmond.
Not to mention he was hauled into the police station when Boone was there about Shannon.

So are you saying he made it up on the fly? (good catch, BTW)I'll have to watch the episode again but this has been done before in "The Usual Suspects" by Kevin Spacey's character, Verbal Kint, during his interrogation by Det. Kujan (Chazz Palminteri).

YMMV

I can't verify for myself if the hot-air baloon was there in the mural, where Gale could have seen it.. but assuming it was there, it would leave little doubt that Gale was lying. And the quickness with which he caught on to the moment of weakness in Sayid's mind by quickly diverting the interrogation by asking if Sayid also lost someone. He was definitely playing mind games. That does not necessarily mean that he is an "other". This possibly allows the writers some wiggle room to introduce another complication. Gale could be one of another faction. The look on his face at the end of the torture does not necessarily mean he is an "other".. it could as well mean that he really hated Sayid for the beating he dished out..

I thought he said his name was Henry Gale when he was still trapped in the net. He may have also mentioned the balloon at that time. I don't think he made it up on the fly. Verbal's story was great.

I thought he said his name was Henry Gale when he was still trapped in the net. He may have also mentioned the balloon at that time. I don't think he made it up on the fly. Verbal's story was great.

He said: "My name is Henry Gale. I'm from Minnesota". He did NOT mention the balloon at that time.

Thanks. But I think he was somewhat committed when he picked that name. I find it hard to believe that no one will pick up on the name and his mode of travel - oh, that's right, no one talks to each other on the island. And despite the fact that "everyone's" seen the Wizard of Oz, I'm willing to bet that Sayid hasn't.

I've seen WOO several times, but I don't remember the name. Woudn't have know if someone here hadn't mentioned it.

I've seen WOO several times, but I don't remember the name. Woudn't have know if someone here hadn't mentioned it.

More damaged memories.

I still lean towards Charlie as possibly the most pivotal character.

Here's my strangest thought as to what is actually going on on the island. They are all part of some sort of realistic computer game. There I said it. You can explain just about anything happens on the island from that viewpoint. :)

...They are all part of some sort of realistic computer game. There I said it. You can explain just about anything happens on the island from that viewpoint. :)

That makes sense, and isn't at odds with what the writers have said ("not purgatory", "not a dream", "they're not dead", "not supernatural" "not mystical", etc.). I'd say you have a great chance of being right by the time the show ends!

Terry O'Quinn is on 'NCIS' right now. I think it's from 2004.

She?...

srw1000, I thought they were talking about the picture opposite the weight-bench, and behind where Sayid was standing. That picture seemed to have a desert motif with what could be a ballon on the left side, and it was right there for the wonderful Mr. Gale to look at when he looked up.

v/r,
C-FI did see the picture, and at first I thought that might have been what rkcarroll was referring to (although he specifically said mural). I've attached a crop of that photo. In one shot it almost looks like it could be a balloon, but in an earlier shot, you can see it's only a couple of trees.

I've also included a look at the mural behind Locke as Jack is questioning him. You'll have to pardon the sloppy Photoshop work. I was in a hurry, and couldn't eliminate part of Locke's shadow.

I don't see anything that looks like a balloon.

Scott

When I first saw it, from the obscure angle we were given I thought it was a picture with a hot air balloon in it. Even if it was only a couple trees, I can see how it could trigger the idea of a balloon in Minnesota's mind when he first saw it. I remember thinking at the the time that it was very odd that he called it a "crash" though, instead of just saying it "came down" or "went down".

Tim

well, if that is not what he meant, I guess I am lost too...

I could not find anything in this composite of the mural (http://timdorr.com/images/Lost/mural.jpg) either.

v/r,
C-F

Yeah, I watched all the portions of the show where Gale was in the bunker and never saw any signs of a balloon. I must be missing something.

The picture was a small one hanging on the wall in the bunker; I saw it. It had nothing to do with Gale as he mentioned his balloon to Sayid when he was still hanging up in Rousseau's trap. Probably just an Easter Egg for the obsessive fan.
"Nothing to see here; move along..."

The picture was a small one hanging on the wall in the bunker; I saw it. It had nothing to do with Gale as he mentioned his balloon to Sayid when he was still hanging up in Rousseau's trap. Probably just an Easter Egg for the obsessive fan.
"Nothing to see here; move along..."

Go back and watch again --- he DID NOT mention the balloon to Sayid when he was hanging in the trap.

Looking at the mural there does appear to be a house flying around all Wiz o' Oz style. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

LOL

The picture was a small one hanging on the wall in the bunker...Was there another picture besides the one I posted earlier. I didn't see anything else that looked like a balloon.

And maxman is correct, he didn't mention the balloon until after he was moved to the bunker.

Scott

When I first saw it, from the obscure angle we were given I thought it was a picture with a hot air balloon in it. Even if it was only a couple trees, I can see how it could trigger the idea of a balloon in Minnesota's mind when he first saw it. I remember thinking at the the time that it was very odd that he called it a "crash" though, instead of just saying it "came down" or "went down".

TimYou could make that argument, but I think you'd really have to over-think it to get to that point. "Gale" would have been looking at it straight on (or from below, actually), so it wouldn't have had the same balloon-like look from his perspective as it does from ours. Besides, if the writers put that much thought into it, I think they would have just had a picture of an actual balloon put on the wall.

Don't get me wrong. I think it would have been really cool to see a balloon on the wall during his questioning, but I just don't see anything to support it.

Scott

Looking at the mural there does appear to be a house flying around all Wiz o' Oz style. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

LOLIt's not all that clear in the picture I posted, but there are actually two flying houses in the mural.

Hmmmm. . .

Scott

Anyone else think Sawyer's reaction to the frog was due to a writer being kept awake by a Coqui frog? Wrong colors, but the right reaction.

I see crushing the frog as a symbolic rebellion against the crazy French lady.

For thos enjoying obessing on lost, this message board has some cool screenshots, theories, etc.:

http://www.4815162342.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=2d7ed8986564a76f9b642f430f0571ff

I see crushing the frog as a symbolic rebellion against the crazy French lady.

how so? how are you connecting the two?

Frog is a derogatory term for the French.

And for those of you that missed NCIS, O'Quinn played a Colonel in the Army. Locke was called Colonel by one of his co-workers in the box factory. On NCIS O'Quinn was wounded, shot in the leg and walked with a limp. Locke was wheelchair bound and has had a limp. O'Quinn on NCIS saw/hallucinated a dead guy. Many people on the island have had hallucinations / have seen dead people. Did I miss any thing?

Frog is a derogatory term for the French.

Amongst whom? I've never heard of it before.

Frog is a derogatory term for the French.

And for those of you that missed NCIS, O'Quinn played a Colonel in the Army. Locke was called Colonel by one of his co-workers in the box factory. On NCIS O'Quinn was wounded, shot in the leg and walked with a limp. Locke was wheelchair bound and has had a limp. O'Quinn on NCIS saw/hallucinated a dead guy. Many people on the island have had hallucinations / have seen dead people. Did I miss any thing?


haha I didn't even think of that...and I think your stretching on the NCIS thing ;)

Amongst whom? I've never heard of it before.

More information than you probably want/need:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0PAL/is_498_158/ai_106652581

Amongst whom? I've never heard of it before.
Amongst those who like to make fun of the French (though English in origin). It's been around since long before you were born -- probably dating back hundreds and hundreds of years. It's most commonly attributed to the French penchant for frog legs. It could also refer back to old French heraldry or when much of France was swamps.

how so? how are you connecting the two?

I'm really not.
Just satirizing those who draw wild connections between unrelated items reading Gawd knows whatever into Lost episodes.

So, for the record I do NOT believe that Sawyer's crushing the frog was symbolic of rebellion against the crazy French Lady. Really, I don't.

I too thought that Moby Dick was a novel about the inherent dangers of whaling ;)
but I could always make up creative BS to get As in English literature.

I'm really not.
Just satirizing those who draw wild connections between unrelated items reading Gawd knows whatever into Lost episodes.

So, for the record I do NOT believe that Sawyer's crushing the frog was symbolic of rebellion against the crazy French Lady. Really, I don't.

I too thought that Moby Dick was a novel about the inherent dangers of whaling ;)
but I could always make up creative BS to get As in English literature.

haha oh alright...I was wondering since it seemed a little out there...but believe me, I've read much much less convincing theories about Lost

I too thought that Moby Dick was a novel about the inherent dangers of whaling ;)So are you saying Moby Dick was the inspiration for Jaws? I mean, they essentially went 'whaling' for a shark....

Moby Dick was probably the inspiration for Jurassic Park, big animals causing trouble!

I probably missed it, but I don't remember anybody mentioning that the film shown to Sayid showing the Sarin gas attack on his hometown was, of course, "REEL 23108-42"...

~Dan

I probably missed it, but I don't remember anybody mentioning that the film shown to Sayid showing the Sarin gas attack on his hometown was, of course, "REEL 23108-42"...

~Dan


hahah jez, how'd you catch that?

I'm not sure that it is related to "Lost," but it certainly is related to this thread. Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1561632449/104-7564393-3759936?v=glance&n=283155) has packaged the "Princess and the FROG" with "MOBY DICK!"

I had no idea of the reach of this forum.

Moby Dick was probably the inspiration for Jurassic Park, big animals causing trouble!OT, *heh* but I mentioned to my brother upon seeing Jurassic Park for the first time: "It was like Jaws on dry land." And how did Spielberg sum up JP in one of its making-of documentaries? He called the creatures "Land-Sharks." Moby Dick>Jaws>Jurassic Park>Lost?

I can't verify for myself if the hot-air baloon was there in the mural, where Gale could have seen it.. but assuming it was there, it would leave little doubt that Gale was lying. And the quickness with which he caught on to the moment of weakness in Sayid's mind by quickly diverting the interrogation by asking if Sayid also lost someone. He was definitely playing mind games. That does not necessarily mean that he is an "other". This possibly allows the writers some wiggle room to introduce another complication. Gale could be one of another faction. The look on his face at the end of the torture does not necessarily mean he is an "other".. it could as well mean that he really hated Sayid for the beating he dished out..

I agree with you. I think there are several packs of people on the island. I think Gale was with the pack that Ethan came from, another group apart from the group of "Others" that Jack, Locke, etc confronted. You also have to think there is another group from DHARMA, who are observing everything.

I agree with you. I think there are several packs of people on the island. I think Gale was with the pack that Ethan came from, another group apart from the group of "Others" that Jack, Locke, etc confronted. You also have to think there is another group from DHARMA, who are observing everything.


I think it would be cool if we find out that at one time, Gale was supposed to have been on the plane as well, then plans changed, so the Dharma initiative had to bring his Baloon down to get him on the island too. He said he "WAS" rich. Maybe he married Boon's rich mother and how he is also connected to the group.

I think it would be cool if we find out that at one time, Gale was supposed to have been on the plane as well, then plans changed, so the Dharma initiative had to bring his Baloon down to get him on the island too. He said he "WAS" rich. Maybe he married Boon's rich mother and how he is also connected to the group.

Gale has been on the island for four months (if we believe him). So he was on the island before flight 815 even left Australia.

I did see the picture, and at first I thought that might have been what rkcarroll was referring to (although he specifically said mural). I've attached a crop of that photo. In one shot it almost looks like it could be a balloon, but in an earlier shot, you can see it's only a couple of trees.

Scott

That desert pic was what I was referring to. Sorry to misstate it as a "mural" - I watch live and without the benefit of recording, so I have to go off memory. When I watched, it looked like a balloon to me, and without the ability to fact check, I threw it out to the masses to see if y'all could confirm/debunk. And debunk, you did. Thanks.

Gale has been on the island for four months (if we believe him). So he was on the island before flight 815 even left Australia.


Yes, but his plans could have changed months before the flight, so bringing down the baloon was the only way Dharma could have brought him to the island. (I don't believe his story, this is just an option if he is really telling the truth).

I probably missed it, but I don't remember anybody mentioning that the film shown to Sayid showing the Sarin gas attack on his hometown was, of course, "REEL 23108-42"...
hahah jez, how'd you catch that?
I caught it fleetingly, and said to myself: I'm going to have to watch that again... :D

~Dan

Response to my question about the symbols on the countdown timer:

Somebody's gonna scream at you to read the thread, but instead take a look starting at this page (and post #12924 in particular)


Thanks for taking it easy on me. I started reading right after that page. That also explains why there was no discussion on the issue. But after seeing the answer, my thought is "Is that it?" Seemed like there would so much more to it than just another warning.

That's the way it goes sometimes.

-Reagan

Anyone know the Neilson rankings for Lost? How is it doing compared to last season?

Fredfa's sticky shows only the top 10.

Any chance that the guy that was talking to Sayid after he got out of the truck in the middle of the desert when they were letting him go is the same guy as the leader of the "Others"? Those two people sounded a lot alike.

Any chance that the guy that was talking to Sayid after he got out of the truck in the middle of the desert when they were letting him go is the same guy as the leader of the "Others"? Those two people sounded a lot alike.

Nah, different Actors. Clancy Brown is famous for his Science Fiction roles. The other actor (Mr Friendly) is more of a character actor

"....I have something to say....it's better to burn out, than to fade awaayy--!"

Yes, but his plans could have changed months before the flight, so bringing down the baloon was the only way Dharma could have brought him to the island. (I don't believe his story, this is just an option if he is really telling the truth).I wonder how long it will be before another group of connected people are "brought" to the island?

As more and more people are brought to the island, I wonder how long it takes before some of the groups decide to start building houses and forts? It makes me wonder if the Others have already done that? And as useful as electricity is, you'd think they'd have long since tapped into the power available at the bunker(s). Maybe in a couple more seasons we'll get to see how that's played out.

Tim

2 weeks, 1 day till the next episode :(

2 weeks, 1 day till the next episode :(

That's 1 week, 1 day until the next episode. That's when March 1st occurs.

To me, Clancy Brown is famous for being a prison guard in just about every prison movie I've seen lol

That's 1 week, 1 day until the next episode. That's when March 1st occurs.

crap...thats right...I almost said 8 days but then wrote 2 weeks for some reason...oh well brain = dumb

Anyone know the Neilson rankings for Lost? How is it doing compared to last season?

Fredfa's sticky shows only the top 10.
Found the Top 20 here. (http://tv.yahoo.com/nielsen/) Lost was 13th.

Found the Top 20 here. (http://tv.yahoo.com/nielsen/) Lost was 13th.

Hope that was a one shot deal because of competition from the Grammys...I'd hate to see LOST lose steam in the ratings.

On the other hand if it starts to dip maybe they'll speed some things up ;-)

Lost is only so low because of the Olympic coverage. Next new episode it will be back in the top 10.

Chuck

I think American Idol has beaten it head to head the past 2 weeks. FWIW.

AI beats everything.

Showing the pilot episode for a 3rd time certainly won't help it's ratings...

Pretty soon a programming "genius" at ABC will move Lost to 10 PM on Saturdays. :rolleyes:

<space reserved for bitching about repeats>

after next week's new episode, they're going to show 4 repeats. Just warning folks in advance that you'll see a lot of bitching and whining during that period.

Not a bitch session... but the "reality" is... more than one good show has "bit-the-dust" because it lacked consistency... too many repeats and/or being shuffled around the Network's program schedule too often.

Lost is only so low because of the Olympic coverage. Next new episode it will be back in the top 10.

ChuckI doubt it. Even before the Olympics and A.I., Lost had fallen out of the top ten. Even the week with Mr. Eko's back-story ranked at 11th.

Understand, I like Lost, and would choose it over AI, Olympics, CSI, or whatever else is beating it in the ratings, but evidently the rest of America is not just like me. :confused: (Look to your left...Maybe I'm not an average ordinary guy.) :)

Maybe I'm not an average ordinary guyYou're not... most of us here are basically techno-geeks... so it's "logical" we prefer shows like Lost.

Guess I'm going to have to rethink my user title.

Since I already "build a better box" I'll anoint you...

"techno-geek extraordinaire!" :D

Not a bitch session... but the "reality" is... more than one good show has "bit-the-dust" because it lacked consistency... too many repeats and/or being shuffled around the Network's program schedule too often.
It is a valid point...I think Fox really hit on the correct approach last season with '24', when they delayed the season until January, and then ran the show uninterrupted through May. By using that approach again this year, they seem to be getting rewarded with improved ratings for the show, and this year they also used the 'old' 24 time slot in the Fall to develop 'Prison Break' which turned out to be a surprise hit for them. Anyway, I can't help but think that ABC would reap ratings improvements for 'Lost' if they would use the Fox model for '24'.

A surprise hit which they put on hiatus for 2 MONTHS! arg, PB was great

4 repeats after this next week? I may stop watching...thats ridiculous

22 episodes in a 37 week season means plenty of repeats.

It is a valid point...I think Fox really hit on the correct approach last season with '24', when they delayed the season until January, and then ran the show uninterrupted through May. By using that approach again this year, they seem to be getting rewarded with improved ratings for the show, and this year they also used the 'old' 24 time slot in the Fall to develop 'Prison Break' which turned out to be a surprise hit for them. Anyway, I can't help but think that ABC would reap ratings improvements for 'Lost' if they would use the Fox model for '24'.

Yup, I applaud Fox for doing this with 24. Of course, they also do it to avoid competing against Monday Night Football, which is another smart move.

22 episodes in a 37 week season means plenty of repeats.

yeah but 4 week hiatuses? You can't get into this season because its so broken up....you see one episode and then have to wait 2 weeks for the next and then 4 weeks for the next...thats terrible for flow...I'd COMPLETELY rather them do it like the British and have two different parts to the season (like BSG 2.0 and 2.5)...kills the series IMHO to break it up

They need to cover sweeps months - Sept, Feb, May.

HBO has been producing some of the best original programming for a number of years. HBO's series are not tied to some archaic Sept. - May calendar that no longer adequately serves an audience because a "full" season consists of no more than 22 episodes. If ABC wants to keep "screwing" around with Lost maybe the SciFi channel will be showing reruns of a sooner-then-expected to be defunct series of plane crash survivors marooned on a tropical island. ;)

Matthew Fox was on The Daily Show. Stewart had Fox in stitches.

Stewart challenged Fox, saying "I think you got caught by surprise and the writers are tap dancing."

Fox had to defend the show, saying there's an ultimate resolution or plan and you have to enjoy the ride for now.

Tonight's episode was the most incredible episode of the series by far!!! Gripping, exciting, hardly any commercial breaks, no backstories that we've seen over and over again, the clock finally ran out and we know what the Others are. This will be an episode long remembered! It rivaled the episode that started it all. Bravo!!!







Then I woke up. :(

22 episodes in a 37 week season means plenty of repeats.
Guess that gives me a bunch of chances to record each ep in HD, although my station finds out some way to **** up at least 5 seconds of each ep, be it a little picture breakup or HD dropout or audio dropout. Or a combination of the any of those such as last weeks. When Locke went in to type in the code the audio fully dropped out (meaning I missed the machine or generator or whatever powering up) and previous to that the center channel was out while Jack and Locke were fighting. :mad:

So while some of you may not hope that's one of the repeats, I'm hoping it is.

A surprise hit which they put on hiatus for 2 MONTHS! arg, PB was great

4 repeats after this next week? I may stop watching...thats ridiculous
They didn't put it on hiatus, the original order was for 13 episodes, they simply ran out of programming. They placed an order for a full season once they saw the ratings remain strong, but of course there was no way to get those shows in the can quickly enough to air them without a break in the schedule.

Matthew Fox was on The Daily Show. Stewart had Fox in stitches.

Stewart challenged Fox, saying "I think you got caught by surprise and the writers are tap dancing."

Fox had to defend the show, saying there's an ultimate resolution or plan and you have to enjoy the ride for now.

Saw that too. Stewart was hilarious, as usual. He made references like he really watches, or at least had been prepped well on the show and fan reactions.

For example, like you mentioned, he made that comment that the producers were caught a bit off guard by the success. Fox said several times that the writers had a plan, saying they were getting from point A to B and we should enjoy the ride. He also made comments on how he hoped the show would be around "just long enough to tell the story" and it is going to be interesting to see how commercialism needs bump up against artisic needs - references to how long the show would stick around.

It was good to see Fox laughing - Stewart really had him cracked up the whole time. I think I'll be more patient with his character now that I've seen that side of him.

This daily show episode should rerun tonight at 7 for those that want to catch it.

Fox was also on Letterman earlier this week (I guess on Tuesday), and he was also very cheerful, and basically repeated the line 'the writers have a plan ...".

I never gave up on his character, and I still think he is the pivotal character in this show, and the one I really like besides Sawyer.

Locke is more like Bush - "I know what I am doing.. trust me !!", and he is growing tiresome because of this. The writers need to move his character along more, and show more of his back stories.

... although my station finds out some way to **** up at least 5 seconds of each ep, be it a little picture breakup or HD dropout or audio dropout. ...
My ABC station in Houston ALWAYS has about 5 seconds of audio drop-out EVERY episode! It is very annoying because it usually means a loss of a portion of the dialog, or, as mentioned, important background noises. I just don't understand it.

After last night's pilot episode repeat, my wife finally agreed to watching season 1 on DVD (I watched it last Sept.). LOST sure is addicting! We stayed up until midnight watching the first four episodes. She just didn't want to quit!

One thing I noticed ... most of the stars seem to have actually GAINED weight while supposedly on the island for what, 50 days or so (over the past couple years of filming). I guess all that money in their real lives = great food. :)

Would someone with Season 1 check something for me please?

A friend of mine believes that Mr. Gale was actually the psychic that Claire went to. Could someone check and either confirm or deny?

Would someone with Season 1 check something for me please?

A friend of mine believes that Mr. Gale was actually the psychic that Claire went to. Could someone check and either confirm or deny?

Ooh, that would be good...

Would someone with Season 1 check something for me please?

A friend of mine believes that Mr. Gale was actually the psychic that Claire went to. Could someone check and either confirm or deny?
I could check over lunch, unless someone beats me to it.

As for the name, I do not recall. But it is definitely not the same actor.

No, different actors. This is the psychic dude:

http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0417068/

This Mr. Gale:

http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0256237/

The IMDB site shows the psychic's name as Richard Malkin. No cigar issued here....

It was good to see Fox laughing - Stewart really had him cracked up the whole time. I think I'll be more patient with his character now that I've seen that side of him.



Don't lose your grip on reality. Matthew Fox is an actor. A side of Fox's character is not a side of Jack's character.

What are you talking about? And how did he get off the island, anyway? I guess it's like Suvivor where they know what happens but can't say until it airs. :rolleyes:

The show will be around until it hits the magic number. 100 Shows. Then it can go to syndication.

No way it is cancelled or runs it s course before then. Too many $$$$ at stake.

The show will be around until it hits the magic number. 100 Shows. Then it can go to syndication.

I've never understood why x number of episodes are necessary for syndication; can you explain?

What are you talking about? And how did he get off the island, anyway? I guess it's like Suvivor where they know what happens but can't say until it airs. :rolleyes:

I don't really understand why they want to LEAVE the island anyway. I mean, Hawaii is a tropical paradise and, with the cost of housing there, they are getting away with murder. :rolleyes:

Wolfie

The IMDB site shows the psychic's name as Richard Malkin. No cigar issued here....

Thank you all for checking. I didn't think he was, but with Lost, you never know.

Of course, HAD he been..... :rolleyes:

Please forgive the off topic, but I've been meaning to ask this for awhile...

Peter, is your signature line a "WKRP in Cincinnati" reference?

Wild turkeys DO fly.....

Please forgive the off topic, but I've been meaning to ask this for awhile...

Peter, is your signature line a "WKRP in Cincinnati" reference?

It's Mr. Carlson referencing the Thansgiving Day helicopter turkey drop. :D

I thought so! Although, I thought it was Les Nessman that said the line - I think he was at least in the helicopter with him. Great show in it's day. Thanks.

Wild turkeys DO fly.....

__________________
Bobby C

Not when dropped from a helicopter at 2000 ft...


That was a great episode ....


Charlie

I think he was at least in the helicopter with him. Great show in it's day. Thanks.

Remember - Les was on the ground doing a live broadcast of the event.

"OMG - they're hitting the ground like sacks of wet cement"

Wild turkeys DO fly.....
..and enough Wild Turkey can make you fly.. :D

I don't really understand why they want to LEAVE the island anyway. I mean, Hawaii is a tropical paradise and, with the cost of housing there, they are getting away with murder. :rolleyes:
Well, all the women on that island are either murderers, married, dead or babysitting. I'm sure Hurley would like to take that hippy chick to a nice restaurant instead of offering her cans of food he's buried around the jungle.

Well, all the women on that island are either murderers, married, dead or babysitting. I'm sure Hurley would like to take that hippy chick to a nice restaurant instead of offering her cans of food he's buried around the jungle.
Eh, I'd take Kate on the island. At least there there's no cars for her to wreck and no gas lines to blow up. ;)

I was watching the rerun of episode 1 the other night and it occurred to me that there could be a third group.

Jack and company were actually from the middle of the plane, the portion where the wings and engines attached, the tailies were from, well the tail. They showed Jack and company searching through the front section that they found inland. Other than the pilot and a couple of stiffs it seems as though there would have been more survivors. Why not since the other sections had survivors.

Is it possible that there is a third group of survivors out there?

I was watching the rerun of episode 1 the other night and it occurred to me that there could be a third group.

Jack and company were actually from the middle of the plane, the portion where the wings and engines attached, the tailies were from, well the tail. They showed Jack and company searching through the front section that they found inland. Other than the pilot and a couple of stiffs it seems as though there would have been more survivors. Why not since the other sections had survivors.

Is it possible that there is a third group of survivors out there?
I had the same thought.

Anyone else find it weird too how Jack ends up in the middle of all those little trees and not a one is broken? I mean how did he get in there? Same with Bernard in the seat. How did it land perfectly on that branch? You'd figure that the velocity it was going would break the branch.

Please forgive the off topic, but I've been meaning to ask this for awhile...

Peter, is your signature line a "WKRP in Cincinnati" reference?

I keep it there in the hope that some day they will work out the music rights and release it on DVD. I'll be first in line. Two words: Bailey Quarters.

I had the same thought.

Anyone else find it weird too how Jack ends up in the middle of all those little trees and not a one is broken? I mean how did he get in there? Same with Bernard in the seat. How did it land perfectly on that branch? You'd figure that the velocity it was going would break the branch.

It is back to the question of whether the writers are sloppy or clever.

Jack amid unbroken branches and Bernard sitting in a tree seem improbable (as if surviving the crash in the first place isn't?). Others (not THE Others, but others as in others in the forum) have suggested that the crash aftermath was somehow "staged".

There may have been a real crash with survivors. The scenes of the tail section falling seems to bear that out. But Jack, lying on his back with no signs of anything to break his fall has always seemed "suspicious" (at least to me).

If you look at the angle of descent of the tail section before it hits, I could buy that the middle section was on a glide path that wound up being low enough so that Jack would have survived. But then, why no broken trees as the plane continued to the eventual crash site on the beach?

Then again, it's only a show...it's only a show...it's only....

It is back to the question of whether the writers are sloppy or clever.

May have been sloppy with Jack since that was the pilot episode, but they had to know what they were doing with Bernard in the tree.

If you look at the angle of descent of the tail section before it hits, I could buy that the middle section was on a glide path that wound up being low enough so that Jack would have survived.

Once the tail is gone, the whole idea of a "glide path" is pure fiction, or at most extremely minimal. Plus, once the front of the plane broke off, the sheer force of the air would decapitate everyone on board. It would be like getting hit in the chest with a baseball bat, if that bat were affixed to a freight train going 70 mph.

The fact that so many people survived what would certainly be a 100% fatal mid-air breakup at 20-30,000 feet is one of the primary mysteries of the show, and one which will eventually be answered. May be the last episode of the last season, and the answer may not be satisfactory to everyone, but the producers have promised they will eventually tie it all together. The fun of this show is in the journey, not the destination.

May have been sloppy with Jack since that was the pilot episode, but they had to know what they were doing with Bernard in the tree.

Unless I'm forgetting something, he had gone to the bathroom and his wife was waiting for him to return.

How did he end up in a seat in a tree?

I think when the the plane started to shake he grabbed the closest seat to him (assuming he was out of the bathroom).

Maybe the seat in the tree was there from another crash (The other Others?) and Bernard landed in it. :)

Unless I'm forgetting something, he had gone to the bathroom and his wife was waiting for him to return.

How did he end up in a seat in a tree?
He probably did the same thing Charlie did - he grabbed a nearby empty seat when things got really bumpy. If he was near the torn part of the aircraft, his seat may have been ripped right out of the craft. The tree probably just caught seat and passengers together. Remember, his unidentified seat mate was dead beside him.

May have been sloppy with Jack since that was the pilot episode, but they had to know what they were doing with Bernard in the tree.

The moment provided an oppurtunity for A.L. to show leadership and an ability to get someone out of trouble. It helped lay the groundwork for her to become the leader of the "tailies". It also provided a show of being cool-headed in contrast to her overreacting on other occasions. It's like the moments of Jack being whiney in contrast to his times of the appearance of confident leadership.

Jack quietly waking up alone added to the shock factor by the time he reached the beach scene since the audience had no idea what to expect.

It is back to the question of whether the writers are sloppy or clever.

. . .

If you look at the angle of descent of the tail section before it hits, I could buy that the middle section was on a glide path that wound up being low enough so that Jack would have survived. But then, why no broken trees as the plane continued to the eventual crash site on the beach?
Come on...this is entirely probable.

Bugs bunny did it all the time: If you step out of the falling elevator just as it smashes into the ground, nothing happens to you... :D

~Dan

Once the tail is gone, the whole idea of a "glide path" is pure fiction, or at most extremely minimal.
At that point it's known as a "ballistic trajectory"...

~Dan

Maybe he got in a seat when the shaking started?

Great. Now WE'RE writing the show.

Once the tail is gone, the whole idea of a "glide path" is pure fiction, or at most extremely minimal. Plus, once the front of the plane broke off, the sheer force of the air would decapitate everyone on board. It would be like getting hit in the chest with a baseball bat, if that bat were affixed to a freight train going 70 mph.

Ah, but you are forgetting that the engine was still RUNNING, thereby suggesting a type of controlled descent. Despite the fact that there was no means to control pitch, yaw or roll, the middle section managed to make it to the beach with only a slight "wump", and somehow managed to not be crushed by the impact.

The dynamics you are suggesting would lead to the conclusion that the middle section would more likely have the flight characteristics of a rock. When it hit, there would have been but a crater with a lot of metal and body parts.

That would mean there couldn't possibly be any surviors. Then they must be [fill in the blank, such as dead, cloned replicants] placed on an isolated, really big island (that nobody seems to have noticed) being subjected to all sorts of psychological and physical testing by some mysterious, possibly evil, organization for God knows what purpose.

Now, who would ever believe that?

The dynamics you are suggesting would lead to the conclusion that the middle section would more likely have the flight characteristics of a rock.

No, I'm suggesting the flight characteristics of a rock with approx. 96,000 lbs of thrust behind it. :)

Back to my original question.


Does anyone else think it is possible that there is a third group of survivors from the plane crash? A group from the front section?

Would be an interesting twist, something to through in for season 3.

Once the tail is gone, the whole idea of a "glide path" is pure fiction, or at most extremely minimal. Plus, once the front of the plane broke off, the sheer force of the air would decapitate everyone on board. It would be like getting hit in the chest with a baseball bat, if that bat were affixed to a freight train going 70 mph.


not sure about that- mythbusters did an episode about violent decompression in a plane and it was nothign but a big thud. Granted the decompression is a bit differnt then getting walloped by the air in the face but plane crashes just dont seem as violent since that mythbusters episode. I'm sure the wirters can come uip with some explanation of air pockets or aerodynamic forces- yada yada -LOL

Maybe the seat in the tree was there from another crash (The other Others?) and Bernard landed in it. :)


thats mint :D


the old chair broke his fall!

Come on...this is entirely probable.

Bugs bunny did it all the time: If you step out of the falling elevator just as it smashes into the ground, nothing happens to you... :D

~Dan


please dont spread rumors. Eveyone KNOWS you have to Jump at that precise moment!

:p

Does anyone else think it is possible that there is a third group of survivors from the plane crash? A group from the front section?

Would be an interesting twist, something to through in for season 3.

Don't think so. I figured there would eventually be a group of tail section survivors for three reasons:
1) They made sure we saw the tail breaking away relatively intact in the pilot episode.
2) Rose saying she was sure her husband was still alive in one of the early eps.
3) Given a multi-year arc for the show, they would eventually need more people to broaden out the plotlines, perhaps create two opposing groups for dramatic purposes, etc.

There have been no such clues dropped about the front (1st class) section of the plane being a separate entity. Plus, we saw what happened to the cockpit and pilot(s).

Unless there's a supernatural explanation, I'm sticking with the crash being staged for all the reasons above and more. Maybe Dharma gassed them with the oxygen masks in the plane. There's just no way I can imagine having survivors in multiple parts of a plane which breaks up at altitude. I could maybe see one section being able to flutter or something, but not survivors from the nose, middle, and tail.

Then on the ground we have people either dead or nearly unscathed with one or two exceptions: no broken bones, miscairages, dismemberments, etc. Heck, there's even glass bottles that are still intact. There's also still a jet engine running on the beach which implies minimal damage to the engine, the fuel delivery system, all with a severed control system (cockpit controls 1/2 an island away).

But who knows, with Locke mobile, maybe they all died in the crash and were resurrected.

not sure about that- mythbusters did an episode about violent decompression in a plane and it was nothign but a big thud. Granted the decompression is a bit differnt then getting walloped by the air in the face but plane crashes just dont seem as violent since that mythbusters episode. I'm sure the wirters can come uip with some explanation of air pockets or aerodynamic forces- yada yada -LOL

Decompression is a different issue, and no, it's not likely that you'd get liquified as you get sucked through one of those tiny windows. ;)

Okay, here's an "out there" theory for ya'll that just popped into my head...

Perhaps the airborne nanobots that comprise the island 'security system' were able to get up there to the plane and kind of "cushion" it as it fell to earth? Or somehow the Darma electromagnetic station was able to "project" a magnetic field waaaay up there to serve the same purpose? The plane would still break up (the nanobots may have been responsible for that too, pesky little devils) but the fall would be decelerated enough to allow most to survive.

Unless there's a supernatural explanation, I'm sticking with the crash being staged for all the reasons above and more. Maybe Dharma gassed them with the oxygen masks in the plane. There's just no way I can imagine having survivors in multiple parts of a plane which breaks up at altitude. I could maybe see one section being able to flutter or something, but not survivors from the nose, middle, and tail.

Sounds good to me. If true, then it may be that Claire's psychic is associated with Dharma, and his insistence that she get on that specific flight may provide a glimpse at how Dharma selected and duped the castmembers into boarding that specific flight.

Okay, here's an "out there" theory for ya'll that just popped into my head...

Perhaps the airborne nanobots that comprise the island 'security system' were able to get up there to the plane and kind of "cushion" it as it fell to earth? Or somehow the Darma electromagnetic station was able to "project" a magnetic field waaaay up there to serve the same purpose? The plane would still break up (the nanobots may have been responsible for that too, pesky little devils) but the fall would be decelerated enough to allow most to survive.I love that theory, and perhaps Minnesota and his wife were sitting in first class right behind the cockpit and he really did imagine that he was drifting in a balloon for a while (the gas in the mask made him dreamy to add to the realism). They (he and wife) went wandering off right after the crash and when their heads cleared they found themselves on the remote beach by the aforementioned cave. :D

Tim

The Tailies crash scene seems to dispute the staged crash idea. We saw the tail come down.

The magnetic field idea has merit. If they have a way to control large magnetic fields, they could have attracted it at first, then repelled it to slow the decent to make it more survivable.

This makes as much sense as anything else I've heard and would reconcile the theories of being brought there on purpose and still allow for an actual plane crash.

Okay, here's an "out there" theory for ya'll that just popped into my head...

Perhaps the airborne nanobots that comprise the island 'security system' were able to get up there to the plane and kind of "cushion" it as it fell to earth? Or somehow the Darma electromagnetic station was able to "project" a magnetic field waaaay up there to serve the same purpose? The plane would still break up (the nanobots may have been responsible for that too, pesky little devils) but the fall would be decelerated enough to allow most to survive.

ahhh--

the magnetic tractor beam....


only hitch is planes are largly aluminum...

Am I the only one of the opinion the show is not as good this year as last year?

More holes (I'm not talking about the hatch), things introduced last season no longer mentioned (even though it's only been two months in the shows time), the stupid countdown timer...

The Tailies crash scene seems to dispute the staged crash idea. We saw the tail come down.


I kinda agree. But we also saw the plane break apart with the middies inside.

I think the staged-crash/abduction theory only works if you can justify/accept that some memories being erased/inhibited (they can give you drugs during surgery so that you don't remember events even if you're conscious) but also that memories can be implanted somehow (hypnosis, suggestion, ...). This would allow for all the survivors to have a similar recollection of something (the events preceding the crash) even though it didn't happen. We may just be seeing "reality" as Dharma has staged it for the "survivors" and not what actually happened (ie plane breaking apart and plunging to the ground/ocean).

I know that's stretching it a bit.

The thing I don't like about the superhuman/supernatural/supertechnology ideas is that you can justify anything (time travel, return from death, invisibility, invulnerability, sentient-intelligent nanocreatures...) if the cause/mystery doesn't obey the rules of physics/nature as we know them. The explanantion then doesn't have to be as elegant as it does if it all has to make realistic sense.

ahhh--

the magnetic tractor beam....


only hitch is planes are largly aluminum...

Even more, except for the outer skin, they're mostly fiberglass, foam and various plastics.

However, maybe it's not a magnetic beam. Perhaps it's an electronic guidance system not unlike those that guide planes into the airport glide path. I'd propose a theory about an RF carrier wave on just the right frequency that would reprogram the autopilot controls, but those are all hard switches and knobs and couldn't be altered that way. However, you could fool the instruments into thinking the plane was higher than it really was and cause the autopilot to compensate downward. That's very iffy since the pilots would have disengaged it when the turbulance started (unless, of course, they couldn't).

The really out there theory might be that they send a controlled electrical charge into the sky. This would displace ions in the atmosphere and create a bubble around the plane that could be used to guide it down. The problem arrises when, perhaps, the bubble isn't designed for something the shape of an airliner and it begins to break the plane apart. At this point, the field splits into separate parts surround the three sections of the plane. Unfortunately, this throws off the field, but not before it slows the descent of the sections enough to allow for all those survivors.

Finally, maybe they aren't part of a Darma experiment at all. Maybe we, the viewers, are...

What is everybody smoking, and where do I buy it?

What is everybody smoking, and where do I buy it?

Dude, there's only 1 new episode in the next 5 weeks. We gotta' talk about something. Maybe a "most outlandish LOST theory" contest! That would generate some interesting reading, I'd say.... :cool:

Maybe he got in a seat when the shaking started?

Great. Now WE'RE writing the show.Correcto. They're probably siftin' through all the boneheaded ideas we've come up with.

What is everybody smoking, and where do I buy it?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/bud_02.jpg

What is everybody smoking, and where do I buy it?
We're smoking some good stuff Dharma gave us :D

While Flight 801 kept it's tail, it lost it's nose about where Oceanic did, and slowly rolled over and plunged into the Sea.

Am I the only one of the opinion the show is not as good this year as last year?

More holes (I'm not talking about the hatch), things introduced last season no longer mentioned (even though it's only been two months in the shows time), the stupid countdown timer...

This season sucks.

He probably did the same thing Charlie did - he grabbed a nearby empty seat when things got really bumpy.
That's one unimportant detail that bugs me. If Charlie jumped out of a first class bathroom and into a first class seat, he should have gone down in the front section of the plane with the pilots.

Bernard being in the tail section does make sense. The bathrooms for the coach section of the L-1011 are in the middle back of the plane.

Then Bernard should have been up in the tree taking a sh*t!

What is everybody smoking, and where do I buy it?

I'm not smoking anything.....


.....I'm taking my daily Darma injections, thank you very much.



;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/bud_02.jpg

Hmmmmm, tasty!

That's one unimportant detail that bugs me. If Charlie jumped out of a first class bathroom and into a first class seat, he should have gone down in the front section of the plane with the pilots.

Bernard being in the tail section does make sense. The bathrooms for the coach section of the L-1011 are in the middle back of the plane.

Agreed, I noticed that again this week. We walked a long way up to the front before the crash.

I also wondered if, when they went looking for the cockpit after the crash and were climbing up through the plane and Charlie disappeared for a while into the bathroom, did he go into the same bathroom that he went into before the crash?

Story-wise yes, that was revealed later with the object he hid in there...

v/r,
C-F

Dude, there's only 1 new episode in the next 5 weeks. We gotta' talk about something. Maybe a "most outlandish LOST theory" contest!
This has been linked before, but the author has embellished the theory some more, seems like a good time to bring it back to the thread: http://www.4815162342.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7712

This has been linked before, but the author has embellished the theory some more, seems like a good time to bring it back to the thread: http://www.4815162342.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7712
When I first clicked on the link I thought "cool, it's in comic book form!" Then it got very wordy and I skimmed a lot.

This theory says: the CC brought the plane down [with the help of the 'black fog' which is nothing more than charged metallic particles]. So the 'black fog' was just a big DLP projector when it showed the pictures to Eko?

v/r,
C-F

Am I the only one of the opinion the show is not as good this year as last year?

More holes (I'm not talking about the hatch), things introduced last season no longer mentioned (even though it's only been two months in the shows time), the stupid countdown timer...

Last season I couldn't wait for Wednesday night. This season, I sometimes end up watching the shows the following weekend rather than staying up late to make sure I watch it as soon as possible (using DVR naturally).

I'm tiring of this rotation of character-centric episodes. Give me some new suspense and further the story regarding some of the more interesting plot developments (wet Walt, the Others).

....losing....interest..... :(

These crazy ass breaks during the season don't help continuity. They are testing our patience.