This has been linked before, but the author has embellished the theory some more, seems like a good time to bring it back to the thread: http://www.4815162342.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7712

haha I love that theory...it really does make sense (and not make sense)...reading it makes Lost seem so much smarter than it is (because they'd never have the creativitivity to come up with something so ingenious)...

wow I never saw those comics...thats amazing...that guy has some huge talent

haha I love that theory...it really does make sense (and not make sense)...reading it makes Lost seem so much smarter than it is (because they'd never have the creativitivity to come up with something so ingenious)...

wow I never saw those comics...thats amazing...that guy has some huge talent
I agree, the first time I read his theory, I kept thinking the producers of the show should hire him to write the backstory, because his ideas are probably much better than what we will eventually be given as the 'true story' of the show. And he really is a good artist, too!

Received the following in an email newsletter from Dolby Labs.

Creating the Sound of an Enchanted Desert Island

The ABC series Lost was a runaway hit when it first aired in September 2004. Now in the midst of its second season, this multiple Emmy® Award winning show continues to wow fans with its labyrinthine and surreal plotlines. With its desert island setting and ominous overtones—half adventure, half creature feature—Lost is the perfect vehicle for an involving and even “cinematic” multichannel soundtrack.

Feature Sound on TV

Scott Weber and Frank Morrone of Buena Vista Sound, both rerecording mixers for the series, are largely responsible for its sound. The two also share an Emmy nomination for their sound mixing work on the series. According to Weber, “The producers are very particular about the soundtrack. It’s almost as if we’re mixing a feature film every week. Also, the show features dream sequences and flashbacks, which are very heavily driven by sound.”

Weber feels strongly about the use of multichannel audio in his work, and its importance to Lost. “It’s a whole new dimension in sound that goes along with high-definition TV,” he says. “Now you not only have pristine picture but you have the soundtrack to go along with it. The option of using surrounds and a subwoofer in 5.1 opens up the space from what you’d get with a two-channel experience. It helps us to create a bigger environment.”

Consideration for Home Theater Audiences

Lost has always been mixed in 5.1, but the mix team has adjusted its mix philosophy since the first season. Originally, the primary objective was to ensure the two-channel mix translated well to television, with occasional references of the multichannel version. With the start of the second season, the emphasis is shifting. “Part of the evolution of the process came about because the first season went to DVD very quickly,” says Weber. “We had a few surprises when going back and listening to the 5.1 mixes on the DVD version, because we were so focused on the two-channel version. So at the start of this season, we began to mix with more regard for multichannel.”

The team also starting mixing on a set of M&K nearfield monitors, to better replicate the sound of a high-end home theater system. “We’re getting a little more detail with what we’re putting in the surrounds and the subwoofer, and we have more discrete elements in the left and right channels,” he says. “We still check all this against the two-channel, especially with regard to how impacts, explosions, hits, and things like that translate to two-track.”

5.1 Mix Techniques

Weber says that a common first step when mixing Lost is to run the stereo music and background stems through Digidesign’s Dolby® Surround Tools plug-in to create a spread through the five-channel spectrum. “This gives us a nice full sound in all the speakers without having to making a lot of effort to pan something there. Then we have the opportunity to place discrete elements in various speakers. Effects and specific backgrounds can be panned, and reverbs can be mixed into the surrounds. Having a sub channel is useful for adding impact to hits and explosions. We’ll also occasionally add a little sub to wave crashes to give them a little more thunder.”

Surround is the clearly the icing on the cake for Weber and Morrone. “It would be easy to put everything in the center channel and call it a day, and it would play just fine on television,” says Weber. “But we like to fill up the space.”

Click here for additional information on Dolby Digital 5.1-channel implementations for HDTV and DTV services and postproduction facilities. For more information on ABC’s Lost, click here.

http://www.dolby.com/about/news_events/dtvaudio_update/dau_feb2006_vol7no1.html
Dolby | Professional Audio/Broadcast | DTV Audio Update

This is great stuff. Thanks for posting.

Nice work, but that guy really needs to get a girlfriend. He has more free time on his hands than I do.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/bud_02.jpgNow we know why Hurley was eating ranch dip straight out of the container :).


ron

I knew I noticed more surround effects in this season in HD than on the DVD (which lack almost any surround effects)...cool stuff Kennan

hopefully we get a great episode tonight, because we'll be getting two weeks of repeats before the next episode on the 22nd. It's ridiculous how ABC spreads this show so far apart.

hopefully we get a great episode tonight, because we'll be getting two weeks of repeats before the next episode on the 22nd. It's ridiculous how ABC spreads this show so far apart.

But still we watch...

I will watch until I die! or until the show ends - whichever comes first :p I'm currently trying desperately to find a way to 'PVR' the show since I am now unable to watch on Wednesday nights! :( The MyHD MDP-130 looks very promising.

The quality sucks but I think Lost is one of the shows you can download from iTunes. I've been watching the unaired eps of Night Stalker the past couple of days.

Just checked, and yes they have all the Lost episodes at $1.99 a piece.

Thanks for the tip but I should have been more specific. I'm trying to PVR in HD. I can currently PVR in SD so I already have the sucky quality option. :p

I will watch until I die! or until the show ends - whichever comes first :p

Not surprising coming from someone with the handle rd...WALT!! You probably don't even have to type in your comments; you just astrally-project them into the Forum, right? :eek:

I will watch until I die! or until the show ends - whichever comes first :p I'm currently trying desperately to find a way to 'PVR' the show since I am now unable to watch on Wednesday nights! :( The MyHD MDP-130 looks very promising.
That's why I bought my MDP-130, the 7 PM start time last year was just not cutting it with the little ones still running around/getting ready for bed...after seeing it in HD I coudn't imagine VCR'ing it.

danger HTPC is a slippery (and fun) slope. Trust me one year into it, I am 2 HD tuner cards, 2 Video cards, nearly a TB of HDD and countless man hours past my original plans. Not 1 regret yet though either. :)

I will watch until I die! or until the show ends - whichever comes first :p

At the rate the plot is unfolding, my money is on your death happening first. Somebody can stick an Ipod in your casket so you can download the final episodes after they broadcast.

Not surprising coming from someone with the handle rd...WALT!! You probably don't even have to type in your comments; you just astrally-project them into the Forum, right? :eek:

Do you know how hard it is to type with cryogenically frozen fingers? :eek:

Are those Itunes eps of Lost available in Spanish?

I record from Dish Network in SD for my girlfriend because they carry the second audio, but on my Comcast in HD they do not. I'd like to cancel Dish.

Are those Itunes eps of Lost available in Spanish?

I record from Dish Network in SD for my girlfriend because they carry the second audio, but on my Comcast in HD they do not. I'd like to cancel Dish.

Tell Comcast to "get Lost" in Spanish.. ;)

Are those Itunes eps of Lost available in Spanish?

I record from Dish Network in SD for my girlfriend because they carry the second audio, but on my Comcast in HD they do not. I'd like to cancel Dish.
I don't know if they have a second audio stream for the TV stuff but you'll not like the quality of the iTunes downloads, they look fine on a 4"-5" window but full screen(19") they look like crap.

The iTunes software is free and there are some free TV shows at the site, you might try one of them to see if there is a Spanish language track.

How do you get the iTunes file to your 19"?

so new episode tonight, and AI is gonna run 30 minutes into?

Scew them, but I bet Lost wont be able to regain the 9pm hour

How do you get the iTunes file to your 19"?

Can't you just play these files in itunes on your computer?

This has been linked before, but the author has embellished the theory some more, seems like a good time to bring it back to the thread: http://www.4815162342.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7712
Thanks, I never saw that before. Interesting read. Although not perfect, it is the most plausible/creative theory I've ever read about the show.

How do you get the iTunes file to your 19"?
My computer monitor is the 19" I was referring to.

Can't you just play these files in itunes on your computer?
Yes, you just right-click the image and click on Full Screen.

My niece says there's a way to move them from the computer to play them like from a burned CD or DVD but I'm not sure about that, in any case, it would look like hell at 73".. :p

My computer monitor is the 19" I was referring to.


Yes, you just right-click the image and click on Full Screen.

My niece says there's a way to move them from the computer to play them like from a burned CD or DVD but I'm not sure about that, in any case, it would look like hell at 73".. :p

I d-loaded once from iTunes for a new epi I missed, threw it up on a 57" RPTV, it was viewable, but I wouldn't make a habit of it.

Plus, no DD5.1.

Pretty good episode tonight. Just finished watching on CTV on Bell Expressvu. I will not ruin anything but I did not understand something about Echo in this episode. After it airs for all I will ask the question.

Also for those with Bell Expressvu or Star Choice, My Name is Earl and The Office are on tonight on Global if you want to see tomorrow's episodes today.

hopefully we get a great episode tonight, because we'll be getting two weeks of repeats before the next episode on the 22nd. It's ridiculous how ABC spreads this show so far apart.

Remembering what NBC did with American Dreams, I'd rather the delay(s) to get the shows in HD, and NO I don't like it either, I think it sucks, it sucks big time! Network TV (NOT OUR MEMBER WITH THAT NAME :cool: ) sucks........ YMMV. :eek:

Network TV sucks........

Heyyyyyyy..... Now, wait just a gawsh darn minute here...

;)

Heyyyyyyy..... Now, wait just a gawsh darn minute here...

;)

Your right, sorry, the comment was not directed at you. But since you added a ;) I hope all's well that ends well.

I will however watch how i word things in the future. :)

Have a good evening.

the baby is sick, hmmmmm

Sweet. Station Snake!

the snake is the medical symbol

Finally a great episode!!So the guys with the torches were in disguise?

http://www.cross-currents.com/wp-images/snake.jpg

I can't stand Claire. Her voice is so annoying.

ecko is wacking out

Why the heck did Mr Eko just cut off that part of his beard??

ok now why did locke just flip out, must've missed it

Claire was looking for vaccine for her baby? What about all the vaccine that was left in the hatch? What happened to that?

Tonight's episode rocked. If someone bitches about tonight's episode, I'm gonna beat you like a Henry Gale!

man the last 5 mins was really strange, ecko's interaction and then the captive using psychology to get at the leadership

Great episode... lots to talk about.

Dharma is definitely on the island.

Dharma's interest is apparently only/mainly with the children, just like the others.

With the costume material found, Dharma may be the Others.

Henry Gale, whether an Other or Dharma or whatever, is definitely up to something, trying to drive wedges between the group. He can get under most anyone's skin.

Still don't understand the "Escape Hatch" thing.

I'll think of more later I'm sure.

wow...so many great scenes

We finally see who Mr. Friendly/Zeke is, without the Dharma-brand theatrical glue and wig and we also find out that Alex (the one holding Kate in the stand-off with Jack and Mr. Friendly) REALLY IS Russo's daughter! (WOW, I always assumed Alex was a boys name!) Thought I still seriously hate how NOBODY mentions what they found when they got back to the camp...I guess its just assumed though now.

Ecko and Gale dialouge was strange...no idea what went on there.

Locke and Gale dialouge was even weirder. Either he was trying to get into Locke's mind, which obviously worked (from the preview)...or its something else.

Also notice the similarities between the Dharma's motives...they had not one but two lists (they talked about the list when Mr. Friendly/Zeke and Ethan talked)...he was obviously sent to infilitrate the group and grab people like the Tallies. Next, who was Mr. Friendly/Zeke talking about? Hanso?

Another thing I infered, was this hatch was only setup for the baby delivery...it looks abandoned (remember the flashbacks only took place about a month ago). Also, notice the flashbacks for Claire were ON-island, instead of off. A very nice difference in story-telling.

Really great episode, I just wish I didn't have to wait 4 weeks for the next one...

Oh yeah... did anyone else hear what sounded like a boat/helicopter in the distance when Claire was back and taking care of her baby? I thought it might be noise outside here but I'm pretty sure it was in Lost.

:confused: Not sure which forum to post this in, but on my SA 8300 HD DVR recording of Lost, this week and the last episode, the black levels were all over the place. It's very obvious -- looks like scans going up and down the display. I haven't seen it for weeks -- since the last Lost episode. This is the ONLY show where this happens. I'm watching on a Panny THPHD428UK on Time Warner NYC cable. Again, no problem with any other show.

Has anybody else experienced this?

Finally a great episode!!So the guys with the torches were in disguise?
I thought I recognized the guy Ethan was talking to in the Dharma Medical Bunker as Mr. Friendly. That Kate found in the locker his hat, a fake beard, and theatrical glue, seems to suggest he was definately in disguise.

As for Mr. Eko's dramatic shaving, I thought he was keeping it as a sign of repentance for bashing in two guys' heads with a stone. Shaving (be it a beard, hair, braid, etc) is often a sign of mourning. So by removing it, he could be reaffiriming that he's on the righteous path and doesn't need to reminder to keep away from the life of a drug lord. Besides, he looked damn badass cutting it off as he did.

Like I've said before, I think Locke is turning bad. Must have the infection that the vaccine is used for.

maybe im missing something, but i thought it was pretty obvious at least after tonights episode that the others, the talies, and dharma are all the same, there is not even a little question about that.


edit: didnt mean the tallies, i meant the people who were taking the tallies.

The Tallies and Dharma are the same? Interesting...I hadn't thought of that...but I don't think so considering Rose and Bernard and because Dharma was taking people from the Tallies...?

maybe im missing something, but i thought it was pretty obvious at least after tonights episode that the others, the talies, and dharma are all the same, there is not even a little question about that.

I agree that Dharma="The Others", but i don't see where the talies are connected to them. They still seem like survivors of 815.

oops didnt mean to say the talies, i meant to say the people who were taking the tallies, i forgot whta they called them but it wasnt 'the others'.

- There was another emphasis on the fact that the Others (including Ethan) have a practice of protecting good people. Ethan tells Claire that they are good people and they will be a good family. This adds further proof to the Goodwin's comments about the people on the list being good people, and that is why they were taken.

- Extending from this point, Ethan fulfilled the same role as Goodwin, and was dispatched to the camp of the Losties to develop a list of the good survivors to be taken. Unfortunately, he was discovered before he could evaluate all 48 survivors, and - as a result - had to flee with Claire.

- Alex is very much alive, and helped Claire escape from the Others. She also did it discretely, since she is still in their employ weeks later to have Kate in her custody: "Bring her out Alex!"

- Eko's goatee was stylized for the two people he killed. His confession to Henry Gale "absolved him of his sins", which is why he cut them off. If Henry Gale is one of the Others, then it is likely that Eko may once again be viewed as a good person, and could still be taken.

For those of you who are interested, there's no drug name on the vials Ethan used to inject Claire, but the number on the label is (you guessed it): CR 4-81516-23 42. It also shows Rx-1GND.

Scott

I think Eko just wanted to unburden himself, but he wanted to confess to someone that wasn't a regular - kinda like a confessional, but Gale was the closest thing to anonymity he could find.

For those of you who are interested, there's no drug name on the vials Ethan used to inject Claire, but the number on the label is (you guessed it): CR 4-81516-23 42. It also shows Rx-1GND.

Scott

I knew I saw it said the number...I know I remember the vials Desmond had also had the numbers on them...did it also have the Rx-1GND? Anybody know?

Take 1:
Locke is a man of thought, philosophy, culture -- call it what you will. His offer of the book was a sincere gesture. When Gale asked about Hemingway, Locke was flattered, "hey, a fellow intellect!" His fit in the kitchen shows that Gale played to his ego, and he fell for it, feeling anger at the possibility that Jack is the leader, and he doesn't play a part in decision-making.

Take 2:
Locke isn't angry about the possibility of Jack being the leader. Instead, he is angry at himself for dropping his guard and being played by Gale. He realizes Gale's play, but only AFTER. He's also angry that he was wrong about Gale, buying into his alibi. He really wanted a fellow intellect, and knows he won't have that.

Keep in mind, it was Locke and Sayid that wanted to hold and torture Gale, not Sayid and Jack. Locke played the sympathetic tonight, offering the book, and the meal and comraderie in the end. Doesn't mean he totally trusted Gale.

i think henry gale is there to continue the "list" because ethan couldn't finish, as we can see from tonight he is testing locke to see whether he is good or bad. just a theory

This is for those who caught the end of the preview. Sun tells Sawyer she needs a pregnancy test. Granted, we don't know Sawyer's reply. BUT! If Sawyer comes up with one, I'm going to be very disappointed. I debated this for 10 minutes with my wife. I say, the probability of a pregnancy test being on the plane is virtually nil. First, the sample size is too small -- 75 females tops? I don't remember the initial passenger count. Then, remove older women and children, females unlikely to become pregnant. Of those remaining, in a real-world sample of that size, how many might be pregnant? THEN, of THOSE, how many might have bought one before the flight, carried it on and planned to use it after they landed? If you think you're pregnant, you're going to buy the kit and take the test ASAP, not save it for later?! If you can't take it right away, would you buy it? I mean, you're rushing to catch a plane, and the time isn't right to take the test, but you think, "you know, I better get this test now, because when I land, I'm just not going to have the time or opportunity to get one. Better safe than sorry!" I've taken the flight out of Sydney, I know it is long, but I think you'd take it before, or wait until you got to your destination. No way would there be a test on the plane.

My wife plays the "you're not a woman" card, and thinks it is likely. The only situation I might buy is if a woman bought multiple tests, and was holding the remaining ones after having used the first. *could* happen.

Gale was obviously very intimidated by Ecko. Ecko's an imposiong presence, but I think Ecko's reputation preceeded him and Gale knew exactly who he was (the one that killed two Others/Dharma).

I also got the impression that Ecko's purpose was also one of intimidation which, if correct, meant he knew Gale was a threat and wanted to put some fear in him without coming across as confrontational/bad.

I knew I saw it said the number...I know I remember the vials Desmond had also had the numbers on them...did it also have the Rx-1GND? Anybody know?
The theatrical glue bottle also had the same RX-1GND identifier on it.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, I guess.

Scott

also are we not remembering ecko's interaction wiht the black smoke

Could it be possible that Ethan and Zeke were talking about Henry? oh jez...so many possiblities

BTW, its only 3weeks, not 4 weeks till the next episode :(

When "doctor" Zeke is talking to "doctor" Ethan in the hallway of the med bunker, he says something along the lines of "why did you bring her here now? We weren't supposed to do this yet. He won't be happy..."

Theory #1: He is Dr. Candle. But I'm not sold on this. Gut feeling is that Candle's long gone/ not on the island.

Theory #2: He is DeGroot. It's his experiment and he calls the shots.

Theory #3: He is Henry Gale. Which would explain his trying to "psych" Locke into turning against Jack. Which leads to...

Theory #4: Henry Gale is DeGroot. DeGroot was probably in his 20's when he started his research project. He would be around 50 now, about the same as Gale. Having him look completely different, as he does, would be a perfect way to throw us off the lead- but how many guys in the 70's had beards and thick glasses and not surprisingly decided to go with a different look as they got older? And after 20-30 years on the island, of course he'd be thinner and would look nothing like the DeGroot we saw in the orientation film. And if his first attempts to send DHARMA researchers in to infiltrate the camp didn't work, he may have simply taken matters into his own hands. Not planning to get caught by Rousseau, obviously- he may have been on his way to the beach so that he could "stumble" out of the jungle and give everyone his story about the balloon and his wife and try to work his way into the group. Now, he's working on plan B- turn them against each other, trying to gain an ally, studying the group from the inside, one-on-one.

Okay, I know "what's happening?" is the ever-present question since episode one. I think enough was laid out tonight to make a huge leap in accurate theories.

Ethan might actually have been telling the truth! Dharma was conducting numerous experiments, a regular research community. One particular experiment is successful -- produce a viral warfare product for the goverment. However, containment fails and the entire island is exposed, including inhabitants. Thankfully, there is an antivirus. However, they only produced a limited run, like Ethan said, and due to the exposure, no one leaves or visits the island again (supplies, end of tour, vacation). No new antivirus can be made, but they still have skills, equipment, and a limited set of supplies.

However, they don't count on the wacky island magnetics. Planes crash, boats wreck, balloons are pulled off-course -- survivors arrive. And as with the case of Russo's crew, survivors catch the virus. If Dharma helps, they have to share the antivirus. But the survivors just keep turning up! So they develop a strategy. Priority says, only Dharma inhabitants consume Dharma goods. The rest must fend for themselves. "But what about children?" asks a bleeding heart. "Okay, us and any children, but that's it." So this is the survival strategy. If there is any contact, and it is avoided at all costs, they disguise themselves. Hey, we're not equipped doctors and researchers! We're survivors, just like you! And we're armed and crazy. Stay away! Oh, and grab their guns and ammo too.

So, what did The Other tell Ana Marie? We go attack the strongest first. Makes sense, they'd be the most likely to conquer Dharma and their inventory. Everyone loses. The orientation film is correct, and what went wrong was the exposure. The prior hatch occupant got his stash of antivirus because the guy before him left it behind. And so he takes it all when he leaves, because he doesn't know about Dharma's presence on the island. Zeke says Ethan wasn't supposed to bring Claire, because they take the child after birth, not before. Having Claire there means she knows THEY'RE there, and what abilities they have. When they attacked the raft, it was both to get Will AND to keep potentially exposed survivors from carrying the virus to population centers.

I mean, Dharma's fighting to survive, same as our gang. They just have better information. They just realized they'd have to fight earlier.

All the rest can be explained by the original Dharma mission -- unusual experiments, bright researchers, etc. they detect Will's special abilities, they created a bizarre monster security system, kept horses and polar bears, and still have gas for their boat. No big deal.

Heh. I like it.

also are we not remembering ecko's interaction wiht the black smoke

Yeah, right!! For me, this was the best instance of how later episodes show little evidence that jungle experiences are talked about afterward. I mean, in the next episode, Charlie's rummaging thru records with Hugo, instead of screaming, "Omigod! The smoke! Ecko! We lived! Crikey!"

I like Quinocampa's theory... except we still need an explanation for how all these people survive these horrific crashes.

WTF was the deal with the crib mobile being made of Oceanic jet models? How cruel is it to taunt Claire with that? Also, why the heck would they even HAVE those models?

Okay, I know "what's happening?" is the ever-present question since episode one. I think enough was laid out tonight to make a huge leap in accurate theories.

Ethan might actually have been telling the truth! Dharma was conducting numerous experiments, a regular research community. One particular experiment is successful -- produce a viral warfare product for the goverment. However, containment fails and the entire island is exposed, including inhabitants. Thankfully, there is an antivirus. However, they only produced a limited run, like Ethan said, and due to the exposure, no one leaves or visits the island again (supplies, end of tour, vacation). No new antivirus can be made, but they still have skills, equipment, and a limited set of supplies.

However, they don't count on the wacky island magnetics. Planes crash, boats wreck, balloons are pulled off-course -- survivors arrive. And as with the case of Russo's crew, survivors catch the virus. If Dharma helps, they have to share the antivirus. But the survivors just keep turning up! So they develop a strategy. Priority says, only Dharma inhabitants consume Dharma goods. The rest must fend for themselves. "But what about children?" asks a bleeding heart. "Okay, us and any children, but that's it." So this is the survival strategy. If there is any contact, and it is avoided at all costs, they disguise themselves. Hey, we're not equipped doctors and researchers! We're survivors, just like you! And we're armed and crazy. Stay away! Oh, and grab their guns and ammo too.

So, what did The Other tell Ana Marie? We go attack the strongest first. Makes sense, they'd be the most likely to conquer Dharma and their inventory. Everyone loses. The film is correct, and what went wrong was the exposure. The prior hatch occupant got his stash of antivirus because the guy before him left it behind. And so he takes it all when he leaves, because he doesn't know about Dharma's presence on the island. Zeke says Ethan wasn't supposed to bring Claire, because they take the child after birth, not before. Having Claire there means she knows THEY'RE there, and what abilities they have. When they attacked the raft, it was both to get Will AND to keep potentially exposed survivors from carrying the virus to population centers.

I mean, Dharma's fighting to survive, same as our gang. They just have better information. They just realized they'd have to fight earlier.

All the rest can be explained by the original Dharma mission -- unusual experiments, bright researchers, etc. they detect Will's special abilities, they created a bizarre monster security system, kept horses and polar bears, and still have gas for their boat. No big deal.

Heh. I like it.

well said, but it seems to simplistic...I hope there is something more to it than this...I think after reading that guy's theory with the Collective Conscicous and other crazy ideas, anything less than that is a disappointed...either way, yours is DEFINITELY more TVable...

well said, but it seems to simplistic...I hope there is something more to it than this...I think after reading that guy's theory with the Collective Conscicous and other crazy ideas, anything less than that is a disappointed...either way, yours is DEFINITELY more TVable...

Yeah, my wife wants it to be a sort of purgatory, where innocents are carried over to heaven by The Others, but bad people stay behind. Her justification for seemingly innocuous people like Rose and her husband is that, "well, we don't know their backstory yet." She said Hugo using the numbers to win the lottery was evil. Had to laugh at that. And Claire wanting to give up her baby, that was evil too. Umm...so adoption is initiated by evil birth parents? Interesting morality there. What about Locke? "Well," she says, "how'd he become handicapped originally? We don't know!" The backstory theory again. "Jack?" "...backstory."

But I beg to differ with only crazy ideas being dramatic. Lord of the Flies, Survivor, and Gilligan's Island already prove your garden variety behavioral differences provide high drama! Season 2 has been far less mystical than Season 1 was. ABC's website even referenced a "mystical boar". Come again? Why? Because Sawyer thinks it was targeting him when charging? They just became food after a few more episodes. Only the security system / black mist remains mysterious.

The prior hatch occupant got his stash of antivirus because the guy before him left it behind. And so he takes it all when he leaves, because he doesn't know about Dharma's presence on the island.
It clearly shows in the scene where Desmond leaves the hatch that he just grabs some of the bottles but leaves a lot of them behind.

It clearly shows in the scene where Desmond leaves the hatch that he just grabs some of the bottles but leaves a lot of them behind.

I thought that might be the case, but you'd think they'd have done a thorough inventory of the hatch by now. Especially with Sawyer in there!

Yeah, my wife wants it to be a sort of purgatory, where innocents are carried over to heaven by The Others, but bad people stay behind. Her justification for seemingly innocuous people like Rose and her husband is that, "well, we don't know their backstory yet." She said Hugo using the numbers to win the lottery was evil. Had to laugh at that. And Claire wanting to give up her baby, that was evil too. Umm...so adoption is initiated by evil birth parents? Interesting morality there. What about Locke? "Well," she says, "how'd he become handicapped originally? We don't know!" The backstory theory again. "Jack?" "...backstory."

I'm pretty sure the creators have already debunked that myth

Apparently, they debunked the myth of pole reversal on tonight's podcast too...poo

I'm pretty sure the creators have already debunked that myth

Apparently, they debunked the myth of pole reversal on tonight's podcast too...poo

Is there a podcast summary anywhere? I mean, I don't care about any podcast discussions other than those immediately relating to the story. "How do you keep makeup fresh in that humidity?" Hunh-uh. Not my care.

Is there a podcast summary anywhere? I mean, I don't care about any podcast discussions other than those immediately relating to the story. "How do you keep makeup fresh in that humidity?" Hunh-uh. Not my care.


not that I know of...listening to tonight's podcast...first time ever listening....

Thanks, I never saw that before. Interesting read. Although not perfect, it is the most plausible/creative theory I've ever read about the show.iiI click on link and it wants me to register to read

can someone post theory so I can read?

iiI click on link and it wants me to register to read

can someone post theory so I can read?

honestly, I don't think anybody can sum up his theory...its so elaborate and well written, that you really have to read it for yourself...

Sign up and read it, its worth it

Received the following in an email newsletter from Dolby Labs.

Creating the Sound of an Enchanted Desert Island
...
Feature Sound on TV
...
Weber feels strongly about the use of multichannel audio in his work, and its importance to Lost. “It’s a whole new dimension in sound that goes along with high-definition TV,” he says. “Now you not only have pristine picture but you have the soundtrack to go along with it. The option of using surrounds and a subwoofer in 5.1 opens up the space from what you’d get with a two-channel experience. It helps us to create a bigger environment.”



GREAT example tonight -- when Gale's muffled cry from the armory, "you could let me go?" or to that effect is heard. It was highly focused in my left rear surround speaker, very nicely muffled. Locke looks directly into that corner, hearing his request. It is exactly what a hi-def home theater buff loves!

honestly, I don't think anybody can sum up his theory...its so elaborate and well written, that you really have to read it for yourself...

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I clicked that earlier and it had a members only login. What gives?

My DVR cut off at 10, so I missed the last few minutes.

Can anyone summarize what happened after the Claire/Aaron scene on the beach? My recording ended as they were panning away.

Thanks

My DVR cut off at 10, so I missed the last few minutes.

Can anyone summarize what happened after the Claire/Aaron scene on the beach? My recording ended as they were panning away.

Thanks
Locke brought Gale some food and he asked if what he told Jack about Hemmingway was true. Then he asked which Locke was...the genius or the guy in the genius' shadow. Locke said he was never into literary analysis. Gale asks him why he lets Jack be the leader. Locke then left the room and went to wash some dishes and instead knocked everything off the counter in a fit of rage.

Theatrical glue and the fake beard worn by the Others' leader in that confrontation.

The guy without the fake makeup told Ethan "he" wouldn't be pleased Ethan abducted Claire.

So Dharma is an elaborate experiment to see what mothers do when faced with the choice of giving up their baby to save it from infection because there is limited amount of vaccine.

Of course, Kate won't mention to everyone else how she found the fake beard and theatrical glue. Hell, so far, neither Kate nor Claire has told anyone else about their little escapade to find another more elaborate hatch with operating rooms and lockers.

Why aren't the ghostly voices in the jungle, previously associated with mystical Others, heard anymore? Just another red herring.

I like Quinocampa's theory... except we still need an explanation for how all these people survive these horrific crashes.

Not to mention all the coincidences or ties between all these people.

Several of them ran into each other or had less than 6 degrees of separation from each other, like Sawyer meeting Jack's dad.

Then you have stuff like the lotto numbers, Claire being told not to give up her baby by the psychic, Hurley owning the box company which employed Locke, Lockes ability to walk, etc.

A whole bunch of unbelievable stuff happened to these people BEFORE they got on that plane and ended up on the island.

GREAT example tonight -- when Gale's muffled cry from the armory, "you could let me go?" or to that effect is heard. It was highly focused in my left rear surround speaker, very nicely muffled. Locke looks directly into that corner, hearing his request. It is exactly what a hi-def home theater buff loves!
My left-rear speaker is by my front door. At first, I thought someone was on my porch!

~Dan

Why aren't the ghostly voices in the jungle, previously associated with mystical Others, heard anymore? Just another red herring.
Just because we haven't heard them in, like, four episodes, doesn't mean the Dharma Remote-Viewing experiment isn't still going on.

Patience, young Grasshopper!

~Dan

Ethan might actually have been telling the truth! Dharma was conducting numerous experiments, a regular research community. One particular experiment is successful -- produce a viral warfare product for the goverment. However, containment fails and the entire island is exposed, including inhabitants. Thankfully, there is an antivirus. However, they only produced a limited run, like Ethan said, and due to the exposure, no one leaves or visits the island again (supplies, end of tour, vacation). No new antivirus can be made, but they still have skills, equipment, and a limited set of supplies.
Except that we know the "incident" occured prior to 1980 (since that's the date on the "Orientation" film) and the Ranch dip that Hurley was eating had a shelf life of only 7 years.

Also, I doubt that if there was only one batch of vaccine, that it would have a 25 year shelf life.

Oh, and let's not forget about about the Washer and Dryer in the hatch... :eek:

So, resupplies do occur...

~Dan

Nobody has yet mentioned this week's "easter egg": Gale asking Locke if he had any books by Stephen King...

~Dan

Nobody has yet mentioned this week's "easter egg": Gale asking Locke if he had any books by Stephen King...

~Dan

I doubt that's it. Anything by stephen king is beneath the writers of this show.

I think that had more to do with showing that guy must have been off of the island at some point in the recent past.

Good to see the plot getting back into shape.

Rousseau's daughter seemed to have makeup on and fairly modern clothing, and the operating room looked petty advanced. Not to mention the quality of the nursery furniture appeared new. It makes it seem like the possibilities for what the Others can access from the island are nearly endless.

Anyone recognize the song playing on the Oceanic mobile over the baby crib? It sounded very familiar... couldnt place it though....

When Alexandra was trying to get Claire out of the maternity bunker, I think I counted at least 6 and maybe 7 people in white scrubs, yet there were no "guards" and no one apparently heard or saw the comotion Claire was making. Seemed quite odd.

I also thought Eko's purpose in visiting Gale was one of intimidation more than one of confession and apology.

If Sun really is pregnant, I guess Dharma will have to get the maternity bunker back up and running.

Tim

Anyone recognize the song playing on the Oceanic mobile over the baby crib? It sounded very familiar... couldnt place it though....

"Catch a falling star and put it in your pocket, never let it fade away..."

Music and Lyrics by Lee Pockriss
and Paul Vance

The hottest songs from Perry Como

Did the planes hanging on the baby's crib match the Plane that Kate took out of the Bank that she robbed?

There seems to be a growing consensus here that Zeke was, in fact, the other guy talking to Ethan in the hallway. Are we sure? Someone would have to carefully compare screenshots and voices of the two, and it seemed to me that the fake beard Kate found was more thin and wispy, not as thick and curly as the one Zeke had. The producers may have planted the theatrical props as a way to throw us off and get us to think that The Others are the same group as the "doctors", those rascals...

And why would they (whoever "they" are) so suddenly abandon the medical bunker, and so completely, taking even the pictures on the walls...? The medicine cabinet was turned over, indicating a struggle or a really quick bug-out.

There seems to be a growing consensus here that Zeke was, in fact, the other guy talking to Ethan in the hallway. Are we sure? Someone would have to carefully compare screenshots and voices of the two, and it seemed to me that the fake beard Kate found was more thin and wispy, not as thick and curly as the one Zeke had. The producers may have planted the theatrical props as a way to throw us off and get us to think that The Others are the same group as the "doctors", those rascals...

And why would they (whoever "they" are) so suddenly abandon the medical bunker, and so completely, taking even the pictures on the walls...? The medicine cabinet was turned over, indicating a struggle or a really quick bug-out.


I can't say for sure, but as soon as my wife saw the Doctor, we looked and said "Hey......the bearded dude". I thought it looked like him.

So, why was Claire acting all loopy while she was a captive, rather than freaking out and asking who everyone was and what they were doing to/with her? Also, no one here has mentioned the significance of the canteen Ethan gave Claire to drink from as well as her comment that it was "pretty sour." You don't make a comment like that unless the water wasn't water or it was spiked with something.

I can't say for sure, but as soon as my wife saw the Doctor, we looked and said "Hey......the bearded dude". I thought it looked like him.

It was definitely the same actor. It could be a clone or twin brother, but I doubt it.

I am certainly not a doctor, but aren't vaccines used to PREVENT an infection?

Are vaccines ever used to CURE infections? If not, I do not see how administering a vaccine would have any effect on a person already infected?

So, why was Claire acting all loopy while she was a captive, rather than freaking out and asking who everyone was and what they were doing to/with her? Also, no one here has mentioned the significance of the canteen Ethan gave Claire to drink from as well as her comment that it was "pretty sour." You don't make a comment like that unless the water wasn't water or it was spiked with something.

Drugs. They had her loopy.

Did the planes hanging on the baby's crib match the Plane that Kate took out of the Bank that she robbed?

No - the baby's crib showed jets, and Kate has a model of a prop driven plane, like an old DC-3.

Someone said the jets had Oceanic colors, I was looking for that but couldn't confirm it to my satisfaction.

The others keep referring to "good" people. I don't think they mean good as in a good person but good as in not infected.

I was a little disappointed that Ethan and the others are Dharma. I thought a good story line was that there were these "others" affected by Dharma research that roam the island with scary powers.

When Jack confronts Zeke, he seemed surprised when Jack mentions Ethan. Then I thought Zeke did not know Ethan and there were three groups. Losties, others and Dharma.

It was definitely the same actor. It could be a clone or twin brother, but I doubt it.

Agreed. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

What I'd like to know is where the medical facility is located in comparison to where "Mr. Friendly" drew the line on the island.

I suspect the "Others"/"Seabillies" routine is to keep them away from the more sensitive bunkers, such as the remote viewing station.

....and while I am at it, though I certaintly don't miss him, I wonder where Michael is these days.

I don't know if this is considered a "spoiler", but here is the entry from IMDB for Walt:

Malcolm David Kelley .... Walt Lloyd (2004-2005)

When "doctor" Zeke is talking to "doctor" Ethan in the hallway of the med bunker, he says something along the lines of "why did you bring her here now? We weren't supposed to do this yet. He won't be happy..."

Theory #1: He is Dr. Candle. But I'm not sold on this. Gut feeling is that Candle's long gone/ not on the island.

Theory #2: He is DeGroot. It's his experiment and he calls the shots.

Theory #3: He is Henry Gale. Which would explain his trying to "psych" Locke into turning against Jack. Which leads to...

Theory #4: Henry Gale is DeGroot. DeGroot was probably in his 20's when he started his research project. He would be around 50 now, about the same as Gale. Having him look completely different, as he does, would be a perfect way to throw us off the lead- but how many guys in the 70's had beards and thick glasses and not surprisingly decided to go with a different look as they got older? And after 20-30 years on the island, of course he'd be thinner and would look nothing like the DeGroot we saw in the orientation film. And if his first attempts to send DHARMA researchers in to infiltrate the camp didn't work, he may have simply taken matters into his own hands. Not planning to get caught by Rousseau, obviously- he may have been on his way to the beach so that he could "stumble" out of the jungle and give everyone his story about the balloon and his wife and try to work his way into the group. Now, he's working on plan B- turn them against each other, trying to gain an ally, studying the group from the inside, one-on-one.

5) HE = Alvar Hanso.

Grist for the mill sent to me by an ardent "Lost" fan.

Book is The Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoevsky. He also wrote Crime and Punishment which has always been a theme in Lost. The idea that this is punishment for their wrong doings. And each Lostie has gone thorugh a crime in anothers eyes. Also he wrote Notes From the Underground. Again, powerful symbolism here. And just for conversation - Demons and the novel Idiots are others he wrote.

I doubt that's it. Anything by stephen king is beneath the writers of this show.

I think that had more to do with showing that guy must have been off of the island at some point in the recent past.



Stephen King books have been around for 30 years!

Stephen King books have been around for 30 years!

I believe the writers have mentioned Stephen King's The Stand as a favorite book.

I am certainly not a doctor, but aren't vaccines used to PREVENT an infection?

Are vaccines ever used to CURE infections? If not, I do not see how administering a vaccine would have any effect on a person already infected?


I agree. Based on what we saw from Desmond, the Vaccine must be adminstered Daily, weekly?? When we first saw Desmond it showed a LOAD of the Vaccines/Medicine or whatever and he took it when he woke up. If those were the vaccines, then Claire needs to share all this information with Jack and start putting the puzzle pieces together. However, if those were vaccines, it appears Desmond gave himself a shot regularly and not sure there would be enough vaccines left in their bunker to handle everyone of the survivors.

I am certainly not a doctor, but aren't vaccines used to PREVENT an infection?

Are vaccines ever used to CURE infections? If not, I do not see how administering a vaccine would have any effect on a person already infected?

Not a doctor either, but generally, yes.

One exception is rabies vaccine (for humans) given only after (suspected) exposure but before the disease is seriously developed.

I am certainly not a doctor, but aren't vaccines used to PREVENT an infection?

Are vaccines ever used to CURE infections? If not, I do not see how administering a vaccine would have any effect on a person already infected?

A vaccine can be used to activate the immune system to fight an exisiting disease or infection. Such therapies are beginning to be used as a cancer treatments. Don't know if this is relavent, just fyi.

Good show last night, probably one of the most answer revealing (if not THE most) episodes yet!

The wife and I thought unbearded zeke and bearded zeke could be clones or twins until we saw the fake bear, hat, and clothes - then we decided that they are one and the same - defineately the same actor.

I agree that Eko's beard dreds that he cut off were symbolc of the two men he killed and that confessing the killing unburdened him and cutting them off symbolically show's he is free of sin again (and he even said that).

I think Locke was more pissed that Galse got under his skin than and not that he realized that Jack was pushing him around. I think, as usual, the preview showing him standing up to Jack was to mislead us into thinking that Locke was swayed by Gale.

Someone said the jets had Oceanic colors, I was looking for that but couldn't confirm it to my satisfaction.

Colors? The planes in the mobile all had the word "Oceanic" clearly (at 73" anyway) painted down their sides.

Yeah, they were all mini-Oceanic Airlines jets.

Is it generally agreed that Hale is an other/Dharma person? I find it fascinating that he has demonstrated a subtle, but direct knowledge of 2 of his captors - Sayid and now Locke. He knew exactly which button to push with Sayid (Shannon's death) and now Locke (subservient to Jack), which can't be happenstance. Can't wait to see where this leads.

He could have picked up on the Jack/Locke tension just from what he could hear from his "cell" - and Sayid is the one who initiated all the discussion regarding death/loss of a loved one.

I think Eko just wanted to unburden himself, but he wanted to confess to someone that wasn't a regular - kinda like a confessional, but Gale was the closest thing to anonymity he could find.

Agreed. It's also his way of apologizing to the Others, through someone he suspects of being one.

Great episode - lot's to talk about.

Back to the abandoned medical bunker. They did seem to leave hastilty - if they knew it was possible Claire might come back someday, why did they leave the fake beard and ragged clothes behind? Why leave the fridge turned over?
Also, I'm thinking of the logistics of moving all the stuff out of the bunker. I doubt they have a truck, so how do you move furniture and stuff through a jungle, especially without leaving any tracks?
I guess it's possible they carried it all by hand or cart, but I wonder if there is another explanation. Hidden tunnels connecting the bunkers?

Wish I had seen this episode.
In Duluth MN this episode was preempted for high school hockey and my PVR attempted to record their low resolution late night rerun but recorded some laugh track comedy instead.

- There was another emphasis on the fact that the Others (including Ethan) have a practice of protecting good people. Ethan tells Claire that they are good people and they will be a good family. This adds further proof to the Goodwin's comments about the people on the list being good people, and that is why they were taken.

..... then it is likely that Eko may once again be viewed as a good person, and could still be taken.


I'm no longer buying the 'good person' bit...they were going to kill Claire after taking out her baby...and while Claire is one of the more annoying women on the planet (I so DID NOT miss her saying "MY BAAAAYBEEEE"), she is a good person.

Besides, the Others are murdering and kidnapping people...talk about the pot and the kettle.

Remember the Twilight Zone episode with Ron Howard as Anthony? Perhaps the scientists on the island are trying to "create" Anthony. (Walt?) And need "good people" to surround him. (or they go to the cornfield)

Finally a great episode!!So the guys with the torches were in disguise?


Yeah, I have to wonder why they go to the trouble?

I doubt that's it. Anything by stephen king is beneath the writers of this show.
Since the writers have said before (and we've often discussed) that Stephen King is one of their favorites, I think your assessment is wrong...

You may not personally care for Stephen King, but you would do well to review this thread in it's entirety before sharing all of your inner thoughts with us.

Or, are you just trolling? :rolleyes:

~Dan

Anyone else think Eko is building a church?

I doubt that's it. Anything by stephen king is beneath the writers of this show.



WHOA, watch the Stephen King snobbery! The writers have mentioned they like him and some of the themes of his books.

So, why was Claire acting all loopy while she was a captive, rather than freaking out and asking who everyone was and what they were doing to/with her? Also, no one here has mentioned the significance of the canteen Ethan gave Claire to drink from as well as her comment that it was "pretty sour." You don't make a comment like that unless the water wasn't water or it was spiked with something.

They had been drugging her to keep her complacent.

GREAT example tonight -- when Gale's muffled cry from the armory, "you could let me go?" or to that effect is heard. It was highly focused in my left rear surround speaker, very nicely muffled. Locke looks directly into that corner, hearing his request. It is exactly what a hi-def home theater buff loves!


My gf and I totally jumped when he said that...and my dog got up and walked to the speaker lol

He could have picked up on the Jack/Locke tension just from what he could hear from his "cell"
True, but couldn't it also be possible he had prior knowledge of the tension, given his choice to use it to disrupt Locke mentally? People argue all the time, that doesn't mean their disagreement can be used as a perfect wedge.
...and Sayid is the one who initiated all the discussion regarding death/loss of a loved one.
Yes Sayid initiated the topic, but how did Hale know to boomerang it back onto Sayid? Perhaps prior knowledge?

CP, I know my premise is flimsy, it's just fun to consider the possibilities. :)

Colors? The planes in the mobile all had the word "Oceanic" clearly (at 73" anyway) painted down their sides.


I can confirm this (at 119" anyway).

;)

I thought Eko might be building a Church too - or a fort...

Or a church that's used as a fort - like the Alamo

Yeah, they were all mini-Oceanic Airlines jets.

Also, they were circling a shiny stary displayed in the baby's mobile (the mini-Oceanic jets (plural) circled around it) while "catch a falling star" music was playing for us in the background.

Hmm, I can't remember clearly on this, but was Claire given her tickets to fly to LA by the psychic, or did she book Oceanic 815 on her own?

Your right, sorry, the comment was not directed at you. But since you added a ;) I hope all's well that ends well.

I will however watch how i word things in the future. :)

Have a good evening.

Of course it wasn't directed at me. Hence the smiley. You just seemed so angry that I thought a little humor might lighten things up a bit. I guess I was mistaken. I'lluse more smileys next time.... :D ;) :)

WTF was the deal with the crib mobile being made of Oceanic jet models? How cruel is it to taunt Claire with that? Also, why the heck would they even HAVE those models?
Well, if you were building a device that could bring down a plane without killing everyone one board, you might start with using models to visualize the procedure and result (kind of like fighter pilots learn manuevers). Once you know what you want, you switch to computer simulations. Then you do a controlled test in some out of the way location....

5) HE = Alvar Hanso.

"HE" is the "KEY". I'm thinking Hanso as well. And if it is, this show is REALLY going to get interesting at that point (one would assume).

...Back to the abandoned medical bunker. They did seem to leave hastilty - if they knew it was possible Claire might come back someday, why did they leave the fake beard and ragged clothes behind? Why leave the fridge turned over?...

And what was in the OTHER lockers???

Remember the Twilight Zone episode with Ron Howard as Anthony? Perhaps the scientists on the island are trying to "create" Anthony. (Walt?) And need "good people" to surround him. (or they go to the cornfield)
That would be Bill Mumy, not Ron Howard.

At any rate, Walt did seem to have a bit of that inside him prior to coming to the island. Maybe this whole thing is completely about him vs someone we have yet to meet, kind of like Tom Cullen (M-O-O-N spells moon) vs Randell Flagg.

Also, they were circling a shiny stary displayed in the baby's mobile (the mini-Oceanic jets (plural) circled around it) while "catch a falling star" music was playing for us in the background.
Has it been established that it's a meteor that gives the island it's strange magnetic properties. The star and the music make me think that's the case.

Remember the Twilight Zone episode with Ron Howard as Anthony? Perhaps the scientists on the island are trying to "create" Anthony. (Walt?) And need "good people" to surround him. (or they go to the cornfield)

I think you mean Billy Mumy, not Ron Howard, if it's the episode I'm remembering.

And what was in the OTHER lockers???
I left my lunch in one them. I was looking forward to it, too. It was a nice roasted boar sandwich with honey mustard, lettuce, tomato and some pepperjack cheese. I left so darned fast, I didn't even have time to wash the mud off my kidnapping pants...

These various bunkers almost have to be connected. At very least, they likely use a common power source. With electrical connectivity, any sort of research/defense facility would also have communications connectivity as well. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Dharma has both audio and video eavesdropping on the bunker. If that's the case and Gale is Dharma, he would know quite a bit about the internal strife in the group. and how to play on people's weaknesses.

As mentioned earlier, it also wouldn't surprise me to find that some/all of the bunkers are connected underground.

On a completely different topic... from a couple of my previous assertions, that the crash was staged and that Libby was Dharma who was observing Hurley and his buddy in the mental hosptial... maybe the whole Claire thing was planned/a setup as well. IF Libby was Dharma, why would she assist Claire in finding out the truth, unless that was part of the plan. Maybe the bunker was setup up (outlines on the walls, bootie, fridge, ...) to be just enough to validate Claire's implanted/conditioned memories and make it seem real, just like the crash scene was staged to reinforce the ruse of a plane crash.

Of course, this is a never-ending rabbit-hole with what is real and what is staged.

Do they EVER inject a fetus in the womb like that? I can't imagine you'd do that without real-time ultrasound lest you poke the baby in the eye or something. Maybe it was just being injected into the sac/fluid. Is it possible it was extracting fluid and not injecting?

If Alex was abducted as a baby, how is it that she has avoided indoctrination into the Dharma "party line" and rescues Claire??? Are there "good" Others and "bad" Others??? And if so, which Others kidnapped the tailies???

"Catch a falling star and put it in your pocket, never let it fade away..."

Music and Lyrics by Lee Pockriss
and Paul Vance

The hottest songs from Perry Como

Hmm, someone is a swing fan on the show. We had Bobby Darin with "Beyond the Sea" last season. Of course, that was a subtle "Finding Nemo" reference - and referring more to the original Charles Trenet version in French.

Have there been any Perry Como songs in recent Disney flicks?

Have there been any Perry Como songs in recent Disney flicks?

Yes, he did Bibbidi-bobbidi-boo in Cinderella. How recent were you thinking? :)

> It clearly shows in the scene where Desmond leaves the hatch that
> he just grabs some of the bottles but leaves a lot of them behind.

I thought that might be the case, but you'd think they'd have done a thorough inventory of the hatch by now. Especially with Sawyer in there!
But, keep in mind that these people don't share information, so Claire might not be aware of the "elixer" in the hatch, and Jack might not have connected Desmond's left-behinds with the vaccine Claire said she needed...

~Dan

Did the planes hanging on the baby's crib match the Plane that Kate took out of the Bank that she robbed?
No, Kates plane was a DC-3; the mobile planes were Oceanic airlines L-1011's.

Another clue that the crash was not an "accident."

~Dan

I think Gale did actually get into Locke's head at the end there, and it wasnt Locke acting pissed because he was "played" by Gale. As we all know from flashbacks of Locke, he does have a soft spot and a yerning for approval, as we saw with his father. He never got any sort of ego boost from his "dad", so when Gale basically implied that he should stand up for himself against Jack, it hit right where it was supposed to.

As for how the Dharma people got everything out of the bunker, it has to be through that escape hatch... maybe "escape" doesnt necessarily mean out of the bunker and up to the "surface", but more another tunnel to another station perhaps, since we know that they think the outside of the bunkers is "quarantined", the escape hatch wouldn't lead back up there.

I don't know if this is considered a "spoiler", but here is the entry from IMDB for Walt:

Malcolm David Kelley .... Walt Lloyd (2004-2005)
Interesting.

I see he's in a 2006 episode of Law & Order:SVU, entitled: "Infected" :eek:

~Dan

One exception is rabies vaccine (for humans) given only after (suspected) exposure but before the disease is seriously developed.
Rabies Vaccination (typically given to high-risk people: veterinarians, animal control officers, people travelling to endemic rabies areas) is a preventative innoculation.

If you've already been bitten, the series of injections is known as "anti-rabies treatment," not "vaccination."

~Dan

Back to the abandoned medical bunker. They did seem to leave hastilty - if they knew it was possible Claire might come back someday, why did they leave the fake beard and ragged clothes behind? Why leave the fridge turned over?
And why take the animal characters off the walls?

~Dan

Remember the Twilight Zone episode with Ron Howard as Anthony? Perhaps the scientists on the island are trying to "create" Anthony. (Walt?) And need "good people" to surround him. (or they go to the cornfield)
Maybe this island is the cornfield... :eek:

~Dan

Hmm, I can't remember clearly on this, but was Claire given her tickets to fly to LA by the psychic, or did she book Oceanic 815 on her own?
The psychic provided the ticket.

~Dan

On a completely different topic... from a couple of my previous assertions, that the crash was staged and that Libby was Dharma who was observing Hurley and his buddy in the mental hosptial... maybe the whole Claire thing was planned/a setup as well. IF Libby was Dharma, why would she assist Claire in finding out the truth, unless that was part of the plan. Maybe the bunker was setup up (outlines on the walls, bootie, fridge, ...) to be just enough to validate Claire's implanted/conditioned memories and make it seem real, just like the crash scene was staged to reinforce the ruse of a plane crash.




I used to be a proponent of the staged crash, but no longer. If it was staged, why go through the drama and infiltrate the groups, kidnap, etc? They could have just taken who they wanted from the get-go.

Yeah, I have to wonder why they go to the trouble?

Why disguise themselves? Well, if they know some of them later might have to infiltrate the losties, such as Mr. Gale perhaps, then they might have wanted to disguise themselves.

The fact that the beard glue was official Dharma brand glue says to me that the task of disguise is one that they knew they would regularly need to be doing on the island when they first went there. Or at least they must have asked for the glue on the most recent resupply delivery.

I think Gale did actually get into Locke's head at the end there, and it wasnt Locke acting pissed because he was "played" by Gale. As we all know from flashbacks of Locke, he does have a soft spot and a yerning for approval, as we saw with his father. He never got any sort of ego boost from his "dad", so when Gale basically implied that he should stand up for himself against Jack, it hit right where it was supposed to.

Not like Locke to throw a "tantrum" and make all that noise virtually in front of Gale; how stupid was that? Would have thought he'd held it in until he was out of Gale's earshot.

The fact that the beard glue was official Dharma brand glue...

Wonder what kind of glue they used in Hurley's box factory?

Do they EVER inject a fetus in the womb like that? I can't imagine you'd do that without real-time ultrasound lest you poke the baby in the eye or something. Maybe it was just being injected into the sac/fluid. Is it possible it was extracting fluid and not injecting?

I saw the nurse with a needle like when my wife was about ready to give birth. But the nurse was extracting fluid from the embryonic sac to test whether the baby was ready to come out (via C-section).

I don't see a real good purpose to injecting anything there. If you want to vaccinate the baby, then just vaccinate the mom. The drugs will go into the baby naturally.

And why take the animal characters off the walls?

~Dan
Yes - the marks left on the walls lead me to beleive the animal characters had been up for a very long time. It takes years for the walls around the characters to get dirty enough for there to be "clean" marks where the characters were.

This makes me think it was not setup just for Aaron. Perhaps it was Alex's nursey first.

In that case... What would make them abandon a facility they'd been using for teens of years is odd.

Maybe they just abandonded it - after the last new episode when the counter ran out and the alarms started sounding, and not shortly after Claire left. We haven't seen any of them since then. Maybe they high-tailed it to another part of the island after the alarms sounded, thinking they can't count on the losties to push the button.

The wife and I thought unbearded zeke and bearded zeke could be clones or twins until we saw the fake bear, hat, and clothes - then we decided that they are one and the same - defineately the same actor.


Wait, the polar bear was fake??? :)

Has it been established how Desmond knew to take the anti-virus? Is he with Dharma?

If the button is so important, why does Dharma trust the losties to keep pushing it? I was thinking that if the island is infected, then maybe the button controls a doomsday device that is kept from activating as long as someone is alive to push it.

Yes - the marks left on the walls lead me to beleive the animal characters had been up for a very long time. It takes years for the walls around the characters to get dirty enough for there to be "clean" marks where the characters were.

This makes me think it was not setup just for Aaron. Perhaps it was Alex's nursey first.

In that case... What would make them abandon a facility they'd been using for teens of years is odd.

Maybe they just abandonded it - after the last new episode when the counter ran out and the alarms started sounding, and not shortly after Claire left. We haven't seen any of them since then. Maybe they high-tailed it to another part of the island after the alarms sounded, thinking they can't count on the losties to push the button.


Now that's something I hadn't thought of: the alarm is sounded in all bunkers. Maybe that gave the Dharma people a scare.

I wonder if the button is to prevent a "self-destruct" situation. If things really got out of control on the island, the default would be that it blows up.

True, but couldn't it also be possible he had prior knowledge of the tension, given his choice to use it to disrupt Locke mentally? People argue all the time, that doesn't mean their disagreement can be used as a perfect wedge.

Yes Sayid initiated the topic, but how did Hale know to boomerang it back onto Sayid? Perhaps prior knowledge?

CP, I know my premise is flimsy, it's just fun to consider the possibilities. :)

I have serious doubts about Gale's supposed prior knowledge of the Losties and their weaknesses.

Last night, we confirm that Rousseau is an independent - a goodie. She's the one who found Gale in the net and brought the Losties to him. How could Gale/Dharma know in advance the sequence of events that would bring Gale to the Losties' den for interrogation? I think Gale is just acting on the perceptions he gains be being vigilant. There certainly has been enough discussion in the hatch between Locke, Said and Jack to be overheard that he could draw his own conclusions about how to work one against the other. And Gale is no dummy.

"In that case... What would make them abandon a facility they'd been using for teens of years is odd."

Claire escaped, so maybe they thought she might remember one day and come back. They would have been right.

As for the Losties bunker, I have to think Dharma/Others (I think they are the same now after seeing the disguise) did not count on them taking this over, mainly because of the armory and all the weapons. No way they would have allowed them to get control of these on purpose.

I also don't think they would trust the safety of the entire island to them pushing the button, so I don't think not pushing it would be that bad.

My favorite theory of what happens when it's not pushed - it opens up an "escape hatch" to the tunnel system connecting to the other bunkers and who knows what else.

Wait, the polar bear was fake??? :)
Man, u guyz ned to stob piging on mi typoz ;)

I thought that it was odd, that when Alex was helping Clair escape; that she told her that there were going to take the baby, and kill Clair.

Since she likely knows the others well, either was lying to persuade, or the others are killers too. Cold methodical killer of mothers.

I thought that it was odd, that when Alex was helping Clair escape; that she told her that there were going to take the baby, and kill Clair.

Since she likely knows the others well, either was lying to persuade, or the others are killers too. Cold methodical killer of mothers.


We already know the Others are killers. Goodwin broke that guys neck, Ethan killed one of the beach survivors, and they shot Sawyer and blew up their raft (out at sea, which ought to have killed them).

Not a big revelation there...

My current theory: The vaccine is just another "button". These bunker people were told that they need to take this vaccine every day or something bad will happen, just like Desmond (and the person before him) was told to keep pushing the button or something bad would happen.

What if there is no sickness? What if it's all just another psychological experiment and they're the subjects?

My current theory: The vaccine is just another "button". These bunker people were told that they need to take this vaccine every day or something bad will happen, just like Desmond (and the person before him) was told to keep pushing the button or something bad would happen.

What if there is no sickness? What if it's all just another psychological experiment and they're the subjects?

What about what happened to Russo's group? Didn't they all get sick?

What if there is no sickness? What if it's all just another psychological experiment and they're the subjects?

Remember that Danielle experienced the "sickness" firsthand and had to kill her comrades after they became infected.

Wonder what kind of glue they used in Hurley's box factory?

Definitely not Theatrical Glue...and you sure as hell wouldn't want to spread corrugated box glue all over your face. ;)

Isn't it odd that the hatch door that Jack and Co found in the first season was sealed shut so well that it required multiple sticks of TNT to blow it open.. It had "quarantine" written on the inside warning of people not to venture out of that hatch..

And now the bunker that Claire was taken to/returned to had handles on the outside that allowed anyone to enter the bunker from outside?? Assuming that the "udders" used that hatch door to bring in preggy mothers to steal babies.. what is to prevent other "infected crazies" from entering the bunker through that hatch? There were no surveillance camera rigs on the entrance to this bunker with handles on the outside, in contrast to a bunker that was sealed shut with a blast door. Hmmm.. What's up doc ?? :confused:

Also, when Claire was first show talking to Ethan in the examination room, she said something like "I am going to Los Angeles" to give up her baby for adoption. I think she was not talking in a past tense as appropriate after the crash.. Was she drugged the whole time, and forgot the crash ?? And when Rousseau bonked her on the head after she escaped from the "udders", did something else happen that made Claire lose all her memories??

Lots of questions answered, but lots of questions created as well !! :) That is what makes this show tick, I guess.. :D No complaints so far, but if this whole thing turns into a psychological experiment, I'd be very disappointed.. :(

Definitely not Theatrical Glue...and you sure as hell wouldn't want to spread corrugated box glue all over your face. ;)

I should have said "brand" of glue.

Lots of good info last night. It was good to see another bunker.

I also am curious why Dharma has abandoned these bunkers. Seeing the doctors, and now knowing that the Others dress up to look like they've been there a long time, it's evident that Dharma is still VERY active on the island. So if these bunkers (6 or 7? I can't remember.) are vital to research, why leave them? I'm guessing we'll find out eventually where they stay and do their work. My theory is that the bunkers were simply experiments themselves for the inhabitants.

Isn't it odd that the hatch door that Jack and Co found in the first season was sealed shut so well that it required multiple sticks of TNT to blow it open.. It had "quarantine" written on the inside warning of people not to venture out of that hatch..

And now the bunker that Claire was taken to/returned to had handles on the outside that allowed anyone to enter the bunker from outside?? Assuming that the "udders" used that hatch door to bring in preggy mothers to steal babies.. what is to prevent other "infected crazies" from entering the bunker through that hatch? There were no surveillance camera rigs on the entrance to this bunker with handles on the outside, in contrast to a bunker that was sealed shut with a blast door. Hmmm.. What's up doc ?? :confused:


That's easy to explain. Yes, they had a lot of trouble trying to open the hatch, but when they were in they discovered that there was an alternative entry to the hatch that was really easy to access. How do you explaing that Hurley has been in the hatch several times? :p

My current theory: The vaccine is just another "button". These bunker people were told that they need to take this vaccine every day or something bad will happen, just like Desmond (and the person before him) was told to keep pushing the button or something bad would happen.

What if there is no sickness? What if it's all just another psychological experiment and they're the subjects?
And the exceedingly low-tech button setup, with flipping numbers and an Apple ][ - contrast that with the modern tech where Claire was held. To me that implies that the button pushing setup is an experiment.

Although, all we saw was Claire's memory of what happened there. We don't know that it wasn't a hallucination. The site was real, but the gleaming med lab, the nursery, et.al. might have just been an illusion.

"Catch a falling star and put it in your pocket, never let it fade away..."

Music and Lyrics by Lee Pockriss
and Paul Vance

The hottest songs from Perry Como

Isn't that the tune that Claire hoped the people she was giving her baby to would sing to him, as conveyed to the Psychic in Aussie-land.

Am I the only one thinking that Locke is playing with Gale?
From what we have seen until now of him, he's not that easy to fall in that kind of tramps. I think he made Gale think that he was affected by what he said to see his reaction. I think Locke really knows that Gale is an Other and is trying to know how he works.

Am I the only one thinking that Locke is playing with Gale?
From what we have seen until now of him, he's not that easy to fall in that kind of tramps.

I don't know. Locke's dad sure pulled one over on him.

Maybe we'll see how he learned from that and turned the tables on Gale.

What about what happened to Russo's group? Didn't they all get sick?

Yes, but remember that Rousseau is crazy. They probably caught a cold, so she whacked them all.

Sorry, and I know that it was covered earlier, but to review: "Uncle Henry" is the uncle of Dorothy Gale in the Wizard of Oz. Most assume that Uncle Henry's last name was Gale as well. Uncle Henry was also the Wizard, who came to Oz in a hot air balloon. Henry Gale allegedly came to the island in a hot air balloon.

Is this something that the writers are using to play with us; is Henry obsessed with the Wizard of Oz; or couldn't he come up with a better alibi when pressured?

Isn't that the tune that Claire hoped the people she was giving her baby to would sing to him, as conveyed to the Psychic in Aussie-land.

Yep. Another hint that Dharma may have been involved in all of the Losties lives (observing, selecting/harvesting, guiding, ...?) well before their current visit to the island.

I thought that it was odd, that when Alex was helping Clair escape; that she told her that there were going to take the baby, and kill Clair.

Since she likely knows the others well, either was lying to persuade, or the others are killers too. Cold methodical killer of mothers.

She probably thinks they killed her mother.

Yes, but remember that Rousseau is crazy. They probably caught a cold, so she whacked them all.

It was the 16 years alone in the jungle after she whacked 'em all that drove her crazy. That, and the deed itself. Still, she must be one helluva' warrior to have dispatched 16 people who, presumably, didn't want to be killed.

I don't recall hearing that Rousseau had 16 shipmates. Where did you get that number?

I don't recall hearing that Rousseau had 16 shipmates. Where did you get that number?

Actually, now that you mention it, I'm not sure there were 16 shipmates (thought I remember her using that figure when she captured Sayid last season). That may be an incorrect number (seems high, actually); somebody with the DVD set can probably verify. At any rate, she did kill them all.

Anyone else think Eko is building a church?

Holy crap! I said this to my brother last night and he laughed at me :)

Also, when Claire was first show talking to Ethan in the examination room, she said something like "I am going to Los Angeles" to give up her baby for adoption. I think she was not talking in a past tense as appropriate after the crash.. Was she drugged the whole time, and forgot the crash ??

I think she was so drugged up that she felt she was still in Australia, getting a checkup before boarding the plane for the U.S. She definitely acted, even as Ethan takes her on the "walk" outside, as if she knew exactly where she was and it was all normal to her. In those flashbacks, she had to have no idea she was on a deserted island in the middle of nowhere.

By the way, those medical facilities definitely didnt look "gleaming" and high tech... even the lights in the OR, the 8 or 10 round circular ones, look like something from the 70s or 80s, whereas a modern OR would have lights on arms that you could bring down close to the patient. Plus, the color of the walls, the greenish tint, is definitely more meant to look retro or at least a couple decades old.

I can confirm this (at 119" anyway).

;)
Well, with 57" and 48 year old eyes, I just couldn't get a good read, and my PVR crashed about then, so couldn't play it back.

Actually, now that you mention it, I'm not sure there were 16 shipmates (thought I remember her using that figure when she captured Sayid last season). That may be an incorrect number (seems high, actually); somebody with the DVD set can probably verify. At any rate, she did kill them all.

It was 16 years since she started transmitting the SOS signal that Sayid listened in on his radio in Season 1. When Rousseau captures him later, he mentions that the SOS message must have been repeating over and over for 16 years when she exclaims "Was it 16 years??" or something similar.

I think that is where you got your number 16 from. I don't remember what she said about the number of her shipmates..

Holy crap! I said this to my brother last night and he laughed at me :)

Not a church, but some sort of 'facility' for atonement of sins. I wouldn't want to be an alter boy in it.

"Hey fadda, can you spare a quadda for an old alter boy?"

Why are we assuming Danielle is insane?

A desperate mother wanting to find her child, yes. Angry at the Others who stole Alex, for sure.

Because she said she killed the other members of her group? Well, if she did it in cold blood, with no reason, then sure. Did all of them become infected simultaneously or one by one? If one by one, what were the remaining crew members doing while she was picking them off?

What about self-defense? I'm just not convinced that Delenn of the Minbari would do such a thing.

Hmm, someone is a swing fan on the show.
Perry Como does not swing. :eek:

Trust me on this one.

Not a church, but some sort of 'facility' for atonement of sins. I wouldn't want to be an alter boy in it.

"Hey fadda, can you spare a quadda for an old alter boy?"

I had some Oz flashbacks about Echo when he entered Gales holding cell.
If he wanted to intimidate\scare Gale he could have just said, "My name is Mr Ecko, I am your new cell mate. From now on, you pee sitting down!"

Does anyone else wonder if the ship that pregnant Sydney Bristow was trapped on is headed to the island so the Dharma people can take her baby from her?

I mean the baby's room last night was strangely similar to the baby's room that Jack discovered in the last episode of Alias. I'm sure J.J. wouldn't dare merge the two shows but the Dharma project has a Rambaldi sound to it.

Rabies Vaccination (typically given to high-risk people: veterinarians, animal control officers, people travelling to endemic rabies areas) is a preventative innoculation.

If you've already been bitten, the series of injections is known as "anti-rabies treatment," not "vaccination."

~Dan


You're both somewhat correct:

For pre-exposure prophylaxis (high risk people) -> vaccine only
For post-exposure prohylaxis (like a bat bite) -> vaccine + immunoglobulin

Sorry, probably getting too much off topic.

Sorry, and I know that it was covered earlier, but to review: "Uncle Henry" is the uncle of Dorothy Gale in the Wizard of Oz. Most assume that Uncle Henry's last name was Gale as well. Uncle Henry was also the Wizard, who came to Oz in a hot air balloon. Henry Gale allegedly came to the island in a hot air balloon.
Nope. The Wizard was Professor Marvel, not Uncle Henry...

Uncle Henry didn't have a counterpart in Oz.

~Dan

Oh, and if Rousseau has been on the island for 16 years and never got "sick", everyone except she from the team on her ship got "sick" in no time after crashing onto the island, but not she - not even after 16 years.

Why is that? Is she special, and could she play a more pivotal role in the show later on? Claire was telling the baby (that she wasn't supposed to raise) that she will always love him, and they'll be there for each other, no matter what.. The way she said those words made the name "Damien" and the movie "The Omen" flash in my mind.. :eek:

Creepy !!

It was 16 years since she started transmitting the SOS signal that Sayid listened in on his radio in Season 1. When Rousseau captures him later, he mentions that the SOS message must have been repeating over and over for 16 years when she exclaims "Was it 16 years??" or something similar.

I think that is where you got your number 16 from. I don't remember what she said about the number of her shipmates..

Did we ever hear what kind of crew/ship she was on? Was the transmission they responded to and later altered a distress call or the numbers which Hurley's asylum-buddy and his fellow radio-monitor had heard?

With older tape equipment, a repeating loop would be easy to patch into a transmitter. Incorprating a counter which increments every loop and then translates that to voice would take quite a bit of technical know-how. Even with a PC with the right software (text-to-speech) it would require significant knowledge. And If this was 16 years ago, we're talking about a pc running Windows 3.x as the absolute latest consumer technology.

The more I think about that, the more I don't buy Rousseau's story (as I recall it) that she went back up there and changed the message herself.

Nope. The Wizard was Professor Marvel, not Uncle Henry...

Uncle Henry didn't have a counterpart in Oz.

~Dan

How could I have forgotten! Professor Marvel played about half of the characters in Emerald City (doorman, guard, etc) but he was not in Kansas. Just a coincidence between Henry Gale on the island and Uncle Henry then?

Did we ever hear what kind of crew/ship she was on?

It was a scientific expedition of some sort; she never specified what kind.

How could I have forgotten! Professor Marvel played about half of the characters in Emerald City (doorman, guard, etc) but he was not in Kansas.

Sure he was. He entertained Dorothy for bit and imparted some home-spun wisdom right before the storm hit.

Based on this episode, the following seems likely:

1. Most, if not all, of the ‘others’ are likely Dharma folks.

2. There are multiple active Dharma facilities on the island. Some are fairly secure bunkers (Losties bunker) and some are more like un-secure work locations (like the baby location from this episode).

3. The Dharma folks are still quite active at something, and children seem involved. They appear to have a management structure.

4. It looks like the Dharma folks left the baby facility quickly. Just the movement of the gear and furniture would take some people some time. However they did not disconnect the power or seal it up.

5. There is lots of power on the island to light up multiple Dharma locations.

6. It seems likely that the different facilities are connected in some fashion. Communications seems more likely that tunnels.

7. Given the Dharma folks numbers, organization, and gear, it seems unlikely they would allow the Losties to monitor the countdown timer if anything really bad would occur if the numbers are not entered.

8. It doesn’t seem likely that the Dharma folks knew the plane was coming or was going to crash. Once it did, they began the process to cull people from the survivors. Ethan was the plant to prepare the list, but got caught.

9. The Dharma folks seem more mission oriented than being a group abandoned on an island. Given that they appear to have cloths, lights, power, food, water, and a plan, they likely have links to other locations (including supplies).

10. There is a lot more history and details for Rousseau.

Ed

Why are we assuming Danielle is insane?

A desperate mother wanting to find her child, yes. Angry at the Others who stole Alex, for sure.

Because she said she killed the other members of her group? Well, if she did it in cold blood, with no reason, then sure. Did all of them become infected simultaneously or one by one? If one by one, what were the remaining crew members doing while she was picking them off?

What about self-defense? I'm just not convinced that Delenn of the Minbari would do such a thing.
Has anyone thought about the scratches rousou (sic) had on her arms from claire? I was thinking that she knew claire was getting the injections, which are not immunizations, but rather injections of the disease. That is why she was trying to save her. Claire thereby is a carrier, and passed it to rousou when she scratched her.

Rousou practically begged kate to 'end her misery', I believe it is because of the fear of the onset of the illness rather than the spare me from the torture of my last 16 years on earth. If you noticed, the red scratches were still on her arm, and they looked like infection rather than just a normal scar.

Claire was telling the baby (that she wasn't supposed to raise) that she will always love him, and they'll be there for each other, no matter what.. The way she said those words made the name "Damien" and the movie "The Omen" flash in my mind.. :eek:

Creepy !!

No, I think we are seeing the transformation of Claire from a scared, pregnant young woman who had no thought of raising her unplanned child to become a loving, caring mother who is now committed to protecting and raising that child to the best of her ability.

wow 4 pages today...nice work guys ;)

My comment about the Oceanic planes above the crib...this was Claire remembering the memories and memory is notorious for being so completely inaccurate. She could have superimposed those into the memory because of the plane crash...just an idea

But I guess that really could work for any of the flashbacks ;)

Has anyone thought about the scratches rousou (sic) had on her arms from claire? I was thinking that she knew claire was getting the injections, which are not immunizations, but rather injections of the disease. That is why she was trying to save her. Claire thereby is a carrier, and passed it to rousou when she scratched her.

Rousou practically begged kate to 'end her misery', I believe it is because of the fear of the onset of the illness rather than the spare me from the torture of my last 16 years on earth. If you noticed, the red scratches were still on her arm, and they looked like infection rather than just a normal scar.Do you really think they would be injecting Claire with something bad if they wanted the baby unharmed?

On another note, I'm not convinced that Eko was simply trying to confess and atone for his deeds with his visit to Gale. I think more will be coming from that exchange myself. I'm pretty much at a toss up on Locke's reaction to Gale's probing comments though. On the one hand, I really do think Locke is easily influenced and manipulated, but the look he gave Gale as he was leaving the room seemed to be more than just anger with the thought that others see him as being subservient to Jack. Also keep in mind, it's both Eko and Locke who have "looked into the eye of the island" with the black smoke/nanobots/whatever it is, and we don't yet know what the consequences/ramifications of that might be.


ron

....and while I am at it, though I certaintly don't miss him, I wonder where Michael is these days.Claires' on-island-backstory was quite interesting, but she's starting to get a bit annoying. Not quite Micheal annoying, but getting there...
"My baby...my baby...my baby!" (Marsha--Marsha--Marsha!)

8. It doesn’t seem likely that the Dharma folks knew the plane was coming or was going to crash. Once it did, they began the process to cull people from the survivors. Ethan was the plant to prepare the list, but got caught.

Ed

Unless they have more than one experiment going. The film listed a number of ideas/concepts that Dharma was interested in. Maybe one experiment involves babies/children (stem cell research/life extension), one involves "good" people that they abduct from the larger group for testing, and yet another that observes sociology of a group of people in a somewhat controlled and isolated environent when specific stressors are applied.

And the obvious experiment:

How long can you keep a hot chick drugged enough to remove any inhibitions, yet aware enough to be active and accomodating? :)

Connection between De Groot and Rousseau.

My girlfriend has always been interested in psychology and looked up DeGroot at Wikipedia and found Hugo Grotius (aka Hugo de Groot). He was a 17th century philosopher who came up with the concepts of International Waters (to which all countries were free to use) and the just war theory (attempt to justify when arms can be used with the aim of establishing lasting peace and justice).

He was also a believer Natural Law, the principle that some things are the way they are because that is how they are. Later disciples of Natural Law would include John Locke and Jean-Jacques Rousseau. John Locke's writing became a basic concept of the Declaration of Independence.

Interesting that all these psychology/sociology names are being used.

8. It doesn’t seem likely that the Dharma folks knew the plane was coming or was going to crash. Once it did, they began the process to cull people from the survivors. Ethan was the plant to prepare the list, but got caught.

But when the tailies crashed, the Others had a list that very first night, before they could be infiltrated by Goodwin (and he was Johnny on the spot wasn't he?) and analyzed for "goodness", did they not? That implies a foreknowledge of not only the crash event itself but also of the passengers by the Others/Darma.

Unless they have more than one experiment going. The film listed a number of ideas/concepts that Dharma was interested in. Maybe one experiment involves babies/children (stem cell research/life extension), one involves "good" people that they abduct from the larger group for testing, and yet another that observes sociology of a group of people in a somewhat controlled and isolated environent when specific stressors are applied.

This last one would make Dharma a renegade organization. Because scientists wouldn't use humans as subjects of experiements without their consent.

Not to mention the deaths which have occurred, from the plane and then Ethan killing that one weak guy and the butch taily killing the Other.

And the obvious experiment:

How long can you keep a hot chick drugged enough to remove any inhibitions, yet aware enough to be active and accomodating? :)

HOW LONG? :D

And the obvious experiment:

How long can you keep a hot chick drugged enough to remove any inhibitions, yet aware enough to be active and accomodating? :)

Oh, I'd say about 15 to 20, with time off for good behavior. ;)

This last one would make Dharma a renegade organization.

Well, duh! :p

This last one would make Dharma a renegade organization. Because scientists wouldn't use humans as subjects of experiements without their consent.

Not to mention the deaths which have occurred, from the plane and then Ethan killing that one weak guy and the butch taily killing the Other.

Not that it's "right", but experimentation without consent has been done often (Milgram experiment; published 1963). Especially if one justifies that the outcome will be for the greater good. When you get to looking at world peace or environemental stewardship of the planet and other idealistic goals, it's pretty easy to justify collateral damage to attain those goals: a Just War as theorized by Hugo de Groot (see above).

It was the 16 years alone in the jungle after she whacked 'em all that drove her crazy. That, and the deed itself. Still, she must be one helluva' warrior to have dispatched 16 people who, presumably, didn't want to be killed.

She's not even warrior caste, she's religious caste.

(Lame Babylon 5 reference)

HOW LONG? :D

Based on what we saw, I'd say "Long enough" :D

Based on what we saw, I'd say "Long enough" :D
Hmm, so Dharma's purpose is to intoxicate pregnant women so they can have their way with them so they don't run the risk of getting a woman pregnant ;)

The trials are on a pregnant woman because if it doesn't work, she's easy to catch. Once approved, the "pill" can be easily administered along with the loopy drugs on women that don't have a parasite. ;)

Not that it's "right", but experimentation without consent has been done often (Milgram experiment; published 1963). Especially if one justifies that the outcome will be for the greater good. When you get to looking at world peace or environemental stewardship of the planet and other idealistic goals, it's pretty easy to justify collateral damage to attain those goals: a Just War as theorized by Hugo de Groot (see above).
But the Milgram experiment was one of several mind****ing experiments that made the psychology community establish guidelines and require peer reviews of experiments before they could be done to people. There's no way that experiment could be done ethically today. Some of the participants had long-term emotional problems after discovering they would obediently kill people if asked to by an egghead in a lab coat.

The Dharma bums are definitely a bunch of "Ethics Schmethics" scientists who didn't want to bother with peer reviews of their wacky experiments. They had no idea that in twenty years cruel psychological experiments would be perfectly ethical on reality television shows. ;)

The trials are on a pregnant woman because if it doesn't work, she's easy to catch. Once approved, the "pill" can be easily administered along with the loopy drugs on women that don't have a parasite. ;)
Sweet, where can I apply to work at Dharma? :D

Isn't it odd that the hatch door that Jack and Co found in the first season was sealed shut so well that it required multiple sticks of TNT to blow it open.. It had "quarantine" written on the inside warning of people not to venture out of that hatch..

And now the bunker that Claire was taken to/returned to had handles on the outside that allowed anyone to enter the bunker from outside?? Assuming that the "udders" used that hatch door to bring in preggy mothers to steal babies.. what is to prevent other "infected crazies" from entering the bunker through that hatch? There were no surveillance camera rigs on the entrance to this bunker with handles on the outside, in contrast to a bunker that was sealed shut with a blast door. Hmmm.. What's up doc ?? :confused:



Remember that once Locke et. al. was in the hatch, they simply walked out the front door. Rather, Desmond walked out first, showing them the way. Permanently closed hatch, with an unlocked door in the front? Doesn't make sense.

Also, everyone assumes that Ethan and friends are Dharma folks just because they occupied the medical center. So...if new survivors landed on the island and met our current group in The Hatch, would Locke and Jack be assumed to be Dharma too? It is a non-sequitar to assume bunker occupants are Dharma. Yes, they were surgery-prepped and medically equipped. Still, that is not complete evidence. Doctors, surgeons, and esearchers are not your typical cold-blooded killer types.

Still, on a kill-or-be-killed island infected with a virus or disease run amok, morality rules must, of necessity, change.

Did we ever hear what kind of crew/ship she was on? Was the transmission they responded to and later altered a distress call or the numbers which Hurley's asylum-buddy and his fellow radio-monitor had heard?

With older tape equipment, a repeating loop would be easy to patch into a transmitter. Incorprating a counter which increments every loop and then translates that to voice would take quite a bit of technical know-how. Even with a PC with the right software (text-to-speech) it would require significant knowledge. And If this was 16 years ago, we're talking about a pc running Windows 3.x as the absolute latest consumer technology.

The more I think about that, the more I don't buy Rousseau's story (as I recall it) that she went back up there and changed the message herself.


Hmmm...when I see sci-fi/fantasy on either film or television, I tend not to analyze the technical equipment. Further, I don't think you're supposed to. The equipment serve as plot devices, facilitating the story, but are seldom the story itself. Think of how bogged down you could get trying to justify the transporter, holodeck, or project management directing the building of the Death Star (as in the analysis in Clerks). I don't think the technological capability to make or not make the transmission with timestamping was meant to be a plot clue -- that's a bit much. It was meant simply to provide a convenient link for Sayid to determine Rousseau's time on the island. Have you ever tried to logically break down the crap Jack Bauer does on 24? I mean, he dies of torture, and a few hours later triumphs in a 3-way gunfight. Some things are just meant to advance the story out of convenience.

They had been drugging her to keep her complacent.

Did anyone think it was odd that Ethan went to all that trouble to get her outside, apparently against the wishes of the other others, before he gave her something sour to drink?

It seemed like the whole purpose of the outside walk was just to get her to drink that, but why not just give it to her inside the bunker?

Perhaps it was something different than what they were using to keep her loopy? Did Ethan have his own agenda?

Sweet, where can I apply to work at Dharma? :D

You people are creepy and inappropriate, and I say that with a straight face...

Hmmm...when I see sci-fi/fantasy on either film or television, I tend not to analyze the technical equipment. Further, I don't think you're supposed to. The equipment serve as plot devices, facilitating the story, but are seldom the story itself. Think of how bogged down you could get trying to justify the transporter, holodeck, or project management directing the building of the Death Star (as in the analysis in Clerks). I don't think the technological capability to make or not make the transmission with timestamping was meant to be a plot clue -- that's a bit much. It was meant simply to provide a convenient link for Sayid to determine Rousseau's time on the island. Have you ever tried to logically break down the crap Jack Bauer does on 24? I mean, he dies of torture, and a few hours later triumphs in a 3-way gunfight. Some things are just meant to advance the story out of convenience.

I agree for the most part, except Lost is different than most shows and even small inconsistencies may have some significance. Who knows, maybe Rousseau is former Dharma and was their communications specialist in which case her ability to modify that system would make sense.

I guess I'm hoping Lost turns out to be more elegant in terms of having explanations. If people surviving a plane crash and having a post-crash jet engine still running on the beach and a mixture of washer/dryer vintages is all poetic license or production slip-ups, I'll be much less impressed than if these all form a coherent whole.

You people are creepy and inappropriate, and I say that with a straight face...

So ya gonna stick around or what?

Did anyone think it was odd that Ethan went to all that trouble to get her outside, apparently against the wishes of the other others, before he gave her something sour to drink?

It seemed like the whole purpose of the outside walk was just to get her to drink that, but why not just give it to her inside the bunker?

Perhaps it was something different than what they were using to keep her loopy? Did Ethan have his own agenda?
Indeed, that whole thing had me wondering.

You people are creepy and inappropriate, and I say that with a straight face...
Awww, you know you like us that way too ;)

I was thinking tonight, related to the ethics-of-science line of discussion, about a story line from Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six. I came home and searched this thread to find the book was mentioned as one of the ones in the hatch when we met Desmond. Wow! But no mention of the story...

In Rainbow Six, a group of elite scientists/environmentalists have decided that mankind is destroying the earth. The only real solution is to return the earth to a more sustainable human population. So they engineer this virus and a vaccine which only they have. They also concoct a scheme, via a pharmaceutical company, to distribute the virus under the guise of presenting it as the vaccine. This insures more complete spread across the world. They abduct people at random and take them to these remote facilities that they've built. These facilities are compounds with all necessary supplies, including guns, farmland, water, positive pressure buildings, etc built in remote locations. At these facilities they infect their subjects with the killer virus and test to make sure their vaccine works but also to ensure that all other vaccines and antibiotics are not effective. They believe the ends justify the sacrifice of these subjects.

The more I write the more similar the stories sound...

I won't spoil the ending but I found it more than a little surprising that this book was in the hatch. As I recall from the film, Dharma is interested in the environment and utopian society among other things. Some, myself included, believe that the Losties have been abducted as part of an experiment. There are bunkers on the island labelled for quarantine. There's small arsenal of guns, both handguns and rifles, more than would be required for simple hunting/wild animal defense. We have stories of a sickness and some mysterious vaccinations taken by Desmond and given to Claire's baby.

Lots of parallels.

Hmm, so Dharma's purpose is to intoxicate pregnant women so they can have their way with them so they don't run the risk of getting a woman pregnant ;)Eww :eek:

So ya gonna stick around or what?

Sure! Just don't ask me to provide insight into date rape techniques or seducing single-mothers-to-be.

I lurk here normally, my regular forum's over with the NEC plasmas. I love the show though, but I'm a pragmatist and like to keep interpretations of TV writing within the realm of sane. Didn't anyone learn anything from X-Files? This is the same old story, from the approach of writers.

But when the tailies crashed, the Others had a list that very first night, before they could be infiltrated by Goodwin (and he was Johnny on the spot wasn't he?) and analyzed for "goodness", did they not? That implies a foreknowledge of not only the crash event itself but also of the passengers by the Others/Darma.
The dead Other woman who had the list (and the U.S. Army Buck knife) was with the second attack (night three, IIRC), not the first attack. It's pretty clear that Goodwin made the list.

I do, however, believe that the Others/Dharma were expecting the crash, since Goodwin infiltrated within the first 10 minutes after the crash...

~Dan

Hmm, I just had a thought. If they had succeeded in dragging Eko into the jungle, what would they have done with him? Were they dragging him off to get rid of him? Or was he on the good list at the time?

Also, I've heard some claims elsewhere that Zeke without the beard looked similar to Locke's father. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Edit: Nevermind, looked at who portrayed them and looked at a picture of Locke's father again and definitely not the same.

If Sun really is pregnant, I guess Dharma will have to get the maternity bunker back up and running.

Tim

Well if Sun is pregnant odds are we will never see the baby born. If they do a month a year, it might be the longest pregnancy ever on TV.

Has anyone been following the comic strip Monty lately?

http://www.comics.com/comics/monty/archive/monty-20060227.html

Start there and work up to todays. And I only say start there to get a feel of why he's in the water. Before that has nothing really to do with what happens after.

Has anyone been following the comic strip Monty lately?

http://www.comics.com/comics/monty/archive/monty-20060227.html

Start there and work up to todays. And I only say start there to get a feel of why he's in the water. Before that has nothing really to do with what happens after.
LOL - I just hope he doesn't do a Brokeback Mountain parody the next time he's short on ideas. Of course, Monty seems like someone who would actually like "Glitter" based soley on the merits of the story.

When "doctor" Zeke is talking to "doctor" Ethan in the hallway of the med bunker, he says something along the lines of "why did you bring her here now? We weren't supposed to do this yet. He won't be happy..."

Theory #1: He is Dr. Candle. But I'm not sold on this. Gut feeling is that Candle's long gone/ not on the island.

Theory #2: He is DeGroot. It's his experiment and he calls the shots.

Theory #3: He is Henry Gale.

Maybe "he" is Desmond :D

Also, I have a feeling we'll be seeing Michael and Walt soon...

Hmm, I just had a thought. If they had succeeded in dragging Eko into the jungle, what would they have done with him? Were they dragging him off to get rid of him? Or was he on the good list at the time?

That's one of the 500 - $64,000 questions. It's possible that they were just taking out the strongest in the first wave so the could abduct at will down the road. It's also possible that Eko was one that they wanted to abduct - for what purpose, we don't know.

Sure he was. He entertained Dorothy for bit and imparted some home-spun wisdom right before the storm hit.


According to IMDB actor Frank Morgan played Prof. Marvel/Emerald City doorman/The cabbie/The Wizard's guard/The Wizard of Oz

Another actor played Uncle Henry

So the Wizard wasn't Henry Gale, but the Oz connection I think is still valid.

Hmmm...when I see sci-fi/fantasy on either film or television, I tend not to analyze the technical equipment. Further, I don't think you're supposed to...
You're obviously new here.

This is for those who caught the end of the preview. Sun tells Sawyer she needs a pregnancy test. Granted, we don't know Sawyer's reply. BUT! If Sawyer comes up with one, I'm going to be very disappointed. I debated this for 10 minutes with my wife. I say, the probability of a pregnancy test being on the plane is virtually nil. First, the sample size is too small -- 75 females tops? I don't remember the initial passenger count. Then, remove older women and children, females unlikely to become pregnant. Of those remaining, in a real-world sample of that size, how many might be pregnant? THEN, of THOSE, how many might have bought one before the flight, carried it on and planned to use it after they landed? If you think you're pregnant, you're going to buy the kit and take the test ASAP, not save it for later?! If you can't take it right away, would you buy it? I mean, you're rushing to catch a plane, and the time isn't right to take the test, but you think, "you know, I better get this test now, because when I land, I'm just not going to have the time or opportunity to get one. Better safe than sorry!" I've taken the flight out of Sydney, I know it is long, but I think you'd take it before, or wait until you got to your destination. No way would there be a test on the plane.

My wife plays the "you're not a woman" card, and thinks it is likely. The only situation I might buy is if a woman bought multiple tests, and was holding the remaining ones after having used the first. *could* happen.

maybe the airlines keep the pregnancy tests on flight in the case of the long-flight "mile-high clubs" :)

There must be rabbits on the island.

Can't you just pee on a rabbit to find out if you're pregnant? I think you pee on it and if it sees it's shadow...... ;)

maybe the airlines keep the pregnancy tests on flight in the case of the long-flight "mile-high clubs" :)

I don't think it's a stretch to think one of the flight attendants had one in her luggage. I mean they're always flying, right?

Can't you just pee on a rabbit to find out if you're pregnant? I think you pee on it and if it sees it's shadow...... ;)

Now I know it's Friday.

I found it a little odd that Sayid didn't appear in the episode, especially after going through the trouble of torturing Mr Gale. Did he not appear because of the breakdown he had at the end of the torture session ?

The DHARMA logo is an octogon, most likely there are 8 total bunkers. We have the one that Gale is being kept in; the one that the Tailies first setup shop in; the medical one where Claire was kept. Is/was Rousseau in another DHARMA bunker ? Is that where she tortured Sayid, and the location of where the 16 year old transmission is being sent ? If so, how many seasons do we have to go through before the remaining 4 bunkers have all been found ?

Something tells me that the DHARMA leaders, maybe Hanso himself are at the center of the island, with the bunkers being the outside "barriers" to it (see logo). I'm curious, when Zeke told Jack and Co. not to go over the line, was he referring to a path that would lead to this center of the island and DHARMA HQ ? Maybe this HQ is where Zeke and company retreated to, and emptied the Medical bunker to.

Back to season one, the first time that Jack took on Ethan, Jack may have been tired, but Ethan still appeared to have super-human strength. Could it be that this Vaccine provides a short-term sample of this strength, but injecting it into unborns is a way to breed a long-term super-human race ? DHARMA appears to be collecting children, maybe injecting them also with this as a hope to build a super-human army ?

I notice I can open the hanso foundation url. How long has this been down ? I wanted to go in to see the different studies they had, one for each bunker. I see dharmainitiative.com states that it is disabled, but links to dharmaindustries.com, which has a (faux) link to paypall for a $30 member sign up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinocampa
This is for those who caught the end of the preview. Sun tells Sawyer she needs a pregnancy test. Granted, we don't know Sawyer's reply. BUT! If Sawyer comes up with one, I'm going to be very disappointed. I debated this for 10 minutes with my wife. I say, the probability of a pregnancy test being on the plane is virtually nil. First, the sample size is too small -- 75 females tops? I don't remember the initial passenger count. Then, remove older women and children, females unlikely to become pregnant. Of those remaining, in a real-world sample of that size, how many might be pregnant? THEN, of THOSE, how many might have bought one before the flight, carried it on and planned to use it after they landed? If you think you're pregnant, you're going to buy the kit and take the test ASAP, not save it for later?! If you can't take it right away, would you buy it? I mean, you're rushing to catch a plane, and the time isn't right to take the test, but you think, "you know, I better get this test now, because when I land, I'm just not going to have the time or opportunity to get one. Better safe than sorry!" I've taken the flight out of Sydney, I know it is long, but I think you'd take it before, or wait until you got to your destination. No way would there be a test on the plane.

My wife plays the "you're not a woman" card, and thinks it is likely. The only situation I might buy is if a woman bought multiple tests, and was holding the remaining ones after having used the first. *could* happen.

OB/GYNs please chime in, but if the pregnancy is past a certain number of weeks I think they can feel a change with a manual exam? Not as accurate as a urine test though.

You go Jack!

I found it a little odd that Sayid didn't appear in the episode, especially after going through the trouble of torturing Mr Gale. Did he not appear because of the breakdown he had at the end of the torture session ?

The DHARMA logo is an octogon, most likely there are 8 total bunkers. We have the one that Gale is being kept in; the one that the Tailies first setup shop in; the medical one where Claire was kept. Is/was Rousseau in another DHARMA bunker ? Is that where she tortured Sayid, and the location of where the 16 year old transmission is being sent ? If so, how many seasons do we have to go through before the remaining 4 bunkers have all been found ?

Something tells me that the DHARMA leaders, maybe Hanso himself are at the center of the island, with the bunkers being the outside "barriers" to it (see logo). I'm curious, when Zeke told Jack and Co. not to go over the line, was he referring to a path that would lead to this center of the island and DHARMA HQ ? Maybe this HQ is where Zeke and company retreated to, and emptied the Medical bunker to.

Back to season one, the first time that Jack took on Ethan, Jack may have been tired, but Ethan still appeared to have super-human strength. Could it be that this Vaccine provides a short-term sample of this strength, but injecting it into unborns is a way to breed a long-term super-human race ? DHARMA appears to be collecting children, maybe injecting them also with this as a hope to build a super-human army ?

I notice I can open the hanso foundation url. How long has this been down ? I wanted to go in to see the different studies they had, one for each bunker. I see dharmainitiative.com states that it is disabled, but links to dharmaindustries.com, which has a (faux) link to paypall for a $30 member sign up.

Reminds me so much of MYST.

My current theory: The vaccine is just another "button". These bunker people were told that they need to take this vaccine every day or something bad will happen, just like Desmond (and the person before him) was told to keep pushing the button or something bad would happen.

What if there is no sickness? What if it's all just another psychological experiment and they're the subjects?


I've thought this since they first introduced the "button".

It doesn't make any sense to me. If pushing the button was that important, why does each "caretaker of the button" give it up so easily? They sure don't seem that concerned wether or not the next person will stay. At least not enough to stay for a few days to make sure the next person is committed to it.

And the last guy (don't remember his name), he left, but where did he think he could go to escape whatever might happen if the button is not pushed?

As for the "wizard of Oz" theory someone mentioned a couple of pages back, the wizard was not Dorthey's uncle. He was a snake oil salesman living out of a wagon.

I've thought this since they first introduced the "button".

It doesn't make any sense to me. If pushing the button was that important, why does each "caretaker of the button" give it up so easily? They sure don't seem that concerned wether or not the next person will stay. At least not enough to stay for a few days to make sure the next person is committed to it.

And the last guy (don't remember his name), he left, but where did he think he could go to escape whatever might happen if the button is not pushed?

As for the "wizard of Oz" theory someone mentioned a couple of pages back, the wizard was not Dorthey's uncle. He was a snake oil salesman living out of a wagon.

The Dharma folks seem to have a clear mission. Along with children, it seems to actively involve those injections. Those same folks however seem uninterested in the button pusher.

If pushing the button was known to be really important, they would have never trusted it to a single person (who after only a short period of time would miss the time from lack of sleep or some other normal event).

Ed

I've thought this since they first introduced the "button".

It doesn't make any sense to me. If pushing the button was that important, why does each "caretaker of the button" give it up so easily? They sure don't seem that concerned wether or not the next person will stay. At least not enough to stay for a few days to make sure the next person is committed to it.

And the last guy (don't remember his name), he left, but where did he think he could go to escape whatever might happen if the button is not pushed?

The only two previous people we know of who pushed the button was Desmond and Calvin. Calvin died and Desmond ran off because someone shot the computer. He may not have been able to run far enough away but he was sure going to try.

The minute they connect the Others with DHARMA, they should stop pushing the button. If there were an impending catastrophe, there's no way they'd leave it up to the 815'ers with no supervision (even with discreet supervision, it is inadequate since the clock has already hit zero)

I wonder if the "losties" have received their first Utility Bill yet? ;)

If they are so concerned about pushing the button in a timely fashion, which they have been up till now, wouldn't natural curiosity overwhelm them, to find out where the Electricity and running water is coming from?

What would they do if the power went out? RUN REALLY FAST?? :D I don't remember discovery of a power plant or water distribution plant thus far. I do remember them finding that one place with pipes and such, but there has to be a giant generator somewhere, or solar converter type generator.

They also seem to be pretty casual about using the Water inside the Hatch, which could also be a good way to distribute mind effecting substances or toxins if one was inclined to do so.